The Circuit of Success Podcast with Brett Gilliland

  Dr. Allison Brager is a neuroscientist, American soldier, and author of Meathead: Unraveling the Athletic Brain. As a neuroscientist specializing in sleep, she offers some insight into setting up a sleep schedule, and how consistency in sleep can affect our circadian rhythms. She illustrates the importance of circadian rhythms and relates that to habits that she has implemented in her own life that we all can easily apply to our own daily lives. Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I have Dr. Allison Brager. Alison, how you doing?  Allison Brager: Oh, it’s great to be here.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome. It’s good to be with you. You are, uh, out in Fort Bragg. So how’s everything going out there today as you’re an active American soldier? So thank you for your service. Brett Gilliland: We are very thankful for people like you. Uh, also a neuroscientist and author of ‘Meathead: Unraveling The Athletic Brain’. So we’ll dive into all that stuff, but how’s everything going out there at Fort Bragg today?  Allison Brager: Oh, it’s great. Uh, you know, back to the cold weather, I’ve been out traveling to our different schools, which are, uh, in more tropical places out in the, uh, desert of California and down in Key West. Allison Brager: So, uh, I I, I wouldn’t say it’s great to be back. But I’m, I’m surviving. Brett Gilliland: But you’re back. You’re back. Allison Brager: I’m back.  Brett Gilliland: Well, that’s good. Well, uh, if you could give us a little lay of the land, what’s made you, the woman you are today? I mean, there’s tons of stuff you’re doing. You know, obviously writing a book, uh, becoming a doctor of neurosciences uh, American Soldier, serving our country, uh, CrossFit, I mean, all the things that you’re doing out there. Brett Gilliland: Uh, maybe give us a little lay of the land on what made you the woman you are today.  Allison Brager: Yeah, so, I um didn’t grow up in the, the best city. Um, I grew up in Youngstown, Ohio. Okay. Which at the time growing up was, uh, the most dangerous city in the country. We had the highest murder rate per capita.  Brett Gilliland: Wow.  Allison Brager: Uh, so I always kind of knew early on that. Allison Brager: Being good at sports is my ticket out of town. There’s uh, quite a few prominent athletes and coaches who come from the area I grew up. Uh, so I sort of always made it my goal to be good at sports growing up just like everyone else I grew up with. Um, I also knew that getting a good education was important. Allison Brager: Uh, so that’s more or less what set my. I was fortunate enough to go to Brown University for undergrad. Um, it was there, I was competed in D one track and field. Um, but I also just fell in love with sleep research, uh, and I’ve always been a big fan of, uh, planning your career around your lifestyle and not your lifestyle around your career. Allison Brager: Um, and so I went along that path of staying dedicated to focusing on sleep research. And I’m lucky enough that I still get to live that life today. Uh, so I basically study sleep health across the entire army. Uh, military, bring new sleep solutions, problem sets to them. Um, and then of course, you know, being. Allison Brager: The army, I get to still be an athlete, uh, full-time because we’re, we’re always having to do physical training. So yeah, it’s been good.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome, awesome. And that’s where I, uh, came across you is through the ‘Whoop’ I wear the ‘Whoop, Whoop’ bracelet. You wear one as well. Uh, I heard you on that podcast. It was amazing. Brett Gilliland: I was like, I gotta have her on here. So let’s talk about that. Some of the things that you’re learning, not necessarily just from ‘Whoop’, this isn’t a ‘Whoop’, uh, uh, podcast, but if you can about the sleep and what you’re learning, cuz I know the Army has, uh, I think a relationship with ‘Whoop’, where a lot of the soldiers can wear those and, and understand their recovery, their strain. Brett Gilliland: Uh, all the stuff. If you haven’t ever listened or people listening to this, had never seen one, check it out at ‘Whoop’. Um, but tell us about that. So, I wanna start with circadian rhythms. Um,  Allison Brager: Sure. Brett Gilliland: People have heard that before, but let’s start with that and let’s maybe kind of set a baseline level of why the importance of that and what that is exactly. Allison Brager: Yeah. So, um, It, I’m really thankful for this ‘Whoop’ army collaboration because I think just having awareness over what your recovery is like and things in your life that impact recovery is most important. Um, so the reason why in the military sleep is such a challenge is because the circadian rhythms, uh, it’s not so much the sleep loss. Allison Brager: It’s the sleep loss at unanticipated times. Um, so circadian rhythms are these basic biological rhythms that pretty much tell us when to eat, sleep, train, and when we perform at our best. But, um, sometimes when you have sleep deprivation or you’re asked to do work, or you’re asked to train at a time you’re not normally conditioned to, it can really disrupt the entire system. Allison Brager: Uh, so that’s why it’s really important for the Army to invest in these platforms that give people awareness of what their recovery’s going to be like when they can’t be on their exact schedule, which, you know, ends up being a lot of our job.  Brett Gilliland: Sure, for sure. So, but talk about that. So those of us maybe that aren’t in the military, that are living a, a different life where we can kind of control our, you know, go to beds and, and get up and, and that’s the point of circadian rhythm, right? Brett Gilliland: The, the more close we can be to going to bed at the same time every night and going to get up at the same time every day, that’s healthier for us, right?  Allison Brager: Yep. Yeah. So these, um, these clocks thrive on consistency and the more consistent we are, um, the better it is.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So why, why is that, do you think?  Allison Brager: Oh, so… Brett Gilliland: What’s the science behind that? Allison Brager: Uh, yeah. Yeah. So what I should say is that there, these, um, Circadian rhythms are controlled by these biological clocks that basically determine when we eat, sleep, and train. So they are programmed to time. Um, and so when the time doesn’t line up, um, we have clocks in our fat cells, our muscle, our liver, our heart, our brain, pretty much every single tissue of the body have has these clocks. Allison Brager: And so when the clocks get disrupted because things in our life aren’t happening. at times they want ’em to then that’s when we get sick. That’s when we’re not gonna have like a great training session. That’s when we’re mentally gonna be in a fog. Um, that’s when all these things happen.  Brett Gilliland: And so you, knowing what you know, if you have the time when you can control, when you go to sleep and when you wake up, are you, are you pretty consistent with that? Brett Gilliland: Like seven days a week, is this something we need to be focusing on? Is it, you know, four days a week is good? Like what, what helps us?  Allison Brager: Uh, the more, the better because, , uh, our body sort of remembers when we’re good to ourselves and then when we aren’t so good to ourselves, we’re in a better position to adapt more quickly. Uh, it’s the same thing with sleep loss too. That’s why it’s good to like actually bank on sleep in anticipation of sleep deprivation is because it, um, it can protect us when we’re actually sleep, sleep deprived. And so it’s the, the same thing with these body clocks too, the less disruptive we are, uh, then when they are disrupted, they’re gonna be in a better position to be okay. , and recover from it quickly. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Allison Brager: And I know it’s, it’s all very abstract, but  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. But I think it’s important for our listeners that may not study this stuff or, or follow, or, or pay attention to it, is, is the key to this is at the end of the day, right, if, if your normal bedtime is, whatever, 10:30, I mean, you need to stay as consistent as you possibly can to get into bed at 10:30. Brett Gilliland: And if you get up at whatever, six o’clock in the morning, then you need to get up at six o’clock in the morning. So even when you don’t want to, Uh, I think that’s the importance to it. And I’ve also seen something, I had, uh, Sean Stevenson on, he’s a, uh, ‘Sleep Smarter’ is the book he wrote and he talked about… Allison Brager: Oh yeah,  Brett Gilliland: …he, yeah. Brett Gilliland: And the guy, I mean, it’s amazing. And, and so he used to live here in St. Louis. He’s out in California now, but doing amazing things. And, but anyway, he talks about even there’s a 90 minute clock, right? Every 90 minutes our body is cycling through. Um, through our sleep. And so, you know, sometimes when you wake up on your own and you’re wide awake and then you’re like, oh, I’ll, I’ll just go back to sleep cause I’ve got another 45 minutes. Brett Gilliland: Right, til’ your alarm goes off per se, but then you wake up in 45 minutes and then you’re exhausted. So yeah. What do you know about that and what can you share with our listeners there?  Allison Brager: Yeah, so that is exactly what it is, is, um, these sleep cycles, they, um, oscillate in 90 minute periods. Um, that’s why we say it’s better to wake up out of a dream than not out of a dream, because that is the last state of sleep of this 90 minute sleep cycle is we go from a state of restorative sleep called non rapid eye movement, sleep to REM sleep, which is the state of sleep we dream in. And so if you’re waking up out of a dream, it means you’ve completed a full sleep cycle. Um, but even throughout our day too, this is, you know, sort of my theory about why the Pomodoro Technique. Have you talked at all on the show about the Pomodoro Technique? Allison Brager: About how we can only… Brett Gilliland: no… Allison Brager: …you know, focus for like 15- 20 minutes at a time before we need a break and then after…  Brett Gilliland: No, I would love to hear more of it. Allison Brager: Okay. Yeah. So this is, um, a pro productivity technique. It’s often used in the European workforce, and I’m a big proponent of it, and I feel like we should all be doing that. Allison Brager: Um, but basically when you look at human attention, uh, we’re only able to attend to things for about 15 minutes at a time. Um, and so fa past 15 minutes, that’s when there’s an increased risk for errors and, um, just lack of focus taking place. Um, so the idea is that every 15 minutes you should take a, like intentional three to five minute break and then resume work. Allison Brager: And then after about 90 minutes of doing, uh, basically four of these Pomodoro cycles, then um, you should take like an hour or an hour and a half break from whatever intense work you’re, you’re doing. Brett Gilliland: Wow. That’s crazy. So, so human, uh, attention lasts about 15 minutes. Yeah. Mine lasts about five seconds sometimes, I think, but… Allison Brager: Well, they say, I mean, the studies now, you know, with, with the, uh, integration of smartphones, uh, within kids now, you know, we didn’t, I didn’t have a smartphone until I was well into my thirties, but like now that kids are getting smartphones as young as five, they say that the average human attention span is like six minutes. Brett Gilliland: Wow.  Allison Brager: So… Brett Gilliland: That’s not good. So let’s. So while we’re on the sleep topic, let’s any, any other kind of sleep hacks or anything that you can think of that, that would help us on how to get prepared for better sleep or to have more of the deep sleep that you talked about? Like how, how do we do that? Allison Brager: So I think the two biggest things is um, first off, setting a sleep routine, um, it sounds so simple, but having something where 60 minutes before bed, you’re putting away your work, um, you’re not setting yourself up for a situation where you’re gonna have additional stress, um, and actually dimming the lights in your house. So, uh, there’s this phenomenon called “dilmo” or ‘dim light melatonin onset’. Allison Brager: Uh, basically being in the presence of dim light causes the release and production of melatonin from your brain. And melatonin is of course, a hormone that helps you fall asleep and stay asleep. Uh, so if you’re able to dim the lights in your house, you’re actually setting yourself up for a position to get better sleep because you’re augmenting your internal release of melatonin. Allison Brager: Um, and I should say and clarify that people who take melatonin supplements, it’s actually more of a placebo effect than an actual physiological effect. Like it cannot mirror or mimic the internal production and release of melatonin. It is just such a strong biological response that no pill can ma can mirror it. Allison Brager: Um, so. You know, I say all that because I know a lot of people do take melatonin. Yeah. Melatonin before they sleep at night. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I’ve never done that, thankfully. But, uh, I’ve heard the same thing. And also I’ve heard about, you know, getting up in the morning, first thing, like first 15, 20 minutes looking directly at the sun… Allison Brager: Yes.  Brett Gilliland: We’re blessed with the sun being out. Like that helps as well. Right. So talk about that.  Allison Brager: Yeah. , um, these biological clocks I talked about earlier, they’re, of all the things they’re most sensitive to, the thing they’re sensitive to the most is light. And when it’s light out, if you remind these clocks that it’s light out, then they will keep, you know, putting together resources and keep functioning like they normally will during light. Allison Brager: Um, so when you wake up in the morning and you expose these clocks to natural light, it’s a wonderful signal to your body and all the physiological processes that will result from it, um, to be awake and to stay awake. Uh, and you’re less likely to have daytime sleepiness. Uh, you know, obviously our attention and our levels of fatigue change throughout the day. Allison Brager: Uh, but an easy way to, to, um, overcome that is actually just going outside and, you know, spending three, five minutes outside every day. That’s all we need. We don’t need caffeine. I mean, I, I love caffeine. Don’t get me wrong, but, uh,  Brett Gilliland: That’s not the answer though, is it?  Allison Brager: …it’s, it’s not always… Brett Gilliland: What if I’m looking through my window, is that okay? Or do I need to actually go outside and have nothing between me and the sun? Allison Brager: No, windows are okay. I just, um, you know, natural light is always better than artificial light.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that’s a big deal too. And I also wear blue light blocking glasses at night, you know? So what are your thoughts on those? Allison Brager: Those are great. Um, but I still think the 60 minute rule before bedtime applies. Um, I think people should wear blue light blocking glasses after dinner and continue to wear them until about 60 minutes before bed and then take them off.  Brett Gilliland: Okay. That’s, that’s interesting. So that’s good to hear. So I, I do, I put ’em on probably around, you know, 7:30, 8 o’clock, something like that. And then, uh, but I, I wear ’em right before I go to bed, so I need to take those off, get rid of my screen. I’m trying to figure out a way to where I can, uh, Put that thing in another, those of you listening, I’m looking at my phone, put it in another room. I need to put that in another room. Cause I always hear that’s not great for sleep either, right? Brett Gilliland: Cause I go to bed if I’m looking at something, I try to not look at social media and all that stuff. Last thing before I go to bed, I definitely don’t wanna check emails. Um, but it’s just sometimes it’s, you know, it just gets to you, right?  Allison Brager: Oh no, absolutely. Um, I mean, that’s definitely another hack too, is it, there’s something about the psychology of sleep. So putting away all electronics and keeping them in a other room, it definitely helps. I I do that. I keep my, um, phone in the kitchen.  Brett Gilliland: I like it. I like it. So let’s talk about, uh, exercise. So obviously sleep, we, we, and everything we’re gonna talk about today is, is, people know this, but I think to your point earlier, is having a plan before bed, right? A 60 minute plan.  Allison Brager: Yep.  Brett Gilliland: It’s no different than you’re planning with the military leaders. Right? You have a plan. When we go to war, we have a plan. When we do this, we have a plan. When I work with my clients, we have a plan, right? So what’s the plan for sleep? But then now what’s the plan for exercise? So can you kind of give us two or three things that you think are crucially, critically important for us, for, uh, for our fitness? Allison Brager: Yeah. So first you gotta figure out what kind of person you are, if you work better in the evening or in the morning. I am a morning, I, I am not a morning person. Um, I quite honestly, I probably won’t go very far up the military chain in terms of like, Uh, you know, being a general or anything, because I am not a morning person. I am an evening person. I have the genetics of an evening person and I know that.  Allison Brager: Um, so I work out best and I perform my best in the evening. So if you’re going for a performance metrics like. You have to know yourself if you’re a morning person or an evening person, and you know, we kind of, in order to figure that out, sure, you could take a clinical questionnaire, but really just you have to do some reflection and think about times of your life or day where you did the best on a college exam or you did the best when you were competing, when you were an athlete at one point in your life. Allison Brager: Um, I think we all kind of know who we are. Uh, and then the second thing is, um, if you aren’t working out within this period of time, just know that you probably aren’t gonna perform at your best. Um, the other thing too is, . So these biological clocks I talked about, they do latch onto exercise. So if you keep your workout schedule very consistent, you’re more likely to set yourself up for gains, like in terms of muscle mass endurance, whatever your end exercise goal is, because your body is going to start leveraging resources around that time of exercise, knowing that it’s going to exercise around that time. Brett Gilliland: Interesting. Yeah, so I, I agree. I’m a, I’m a night person too, but, um, I’ve also found that, you know, with four kids and a busy schedule and their, their sports and stuff, I find that if I don’t get it done in the morning, I’m, I’m probably not gonna get it done. Right. It’s rare that I can come home at five o’clock at night and then have, you know, 45 minutes to do a nice workout. It just, it’s hard to do, right? Allison Brager: Yeah, right. Brett Gilliland: So I think accountability is important to that, uh, as well.  Allison Brager: Yes. Oh yeah, for sure. And you know, that’s why things like the ‘Whoop’ are so great because it’s, I mean, it’s right there attached you, it’s gonna hold you accountable. And, it’s going to send notifications too.  Brett Gilliland: Right. Yeah. I get mad at my phone… Brett Gilliland: yeah. That’s why I say I get mad and I look down at at night and it’s like, you know, for. You know, best recovery you need to get to bed. I’m like, ah, crap. I’m not even more close to getting to bed, you know, but, but it’s telling me I need to go to bed. So, um, so that’s great. So when you, when you think about, you know, again, fitness, um, I know you do CrossFit and you were an elite athlete at track and field, obviously in college. Brett Gilliland: What do you think about from cardio versus strength versus, um, you know, like mobility, flexibility, h how do we, what’s your doctor brain tell us on that one? Allison Brager: Um, so, believe it or not, there is research looking at when we do our best cardio and when we are the best at strength. Uh, we do our best cardio in the morning, and it’s mostly just because, uh, our body does a really good job of, um, starting to release a lot of fats, and like a lot of, uh, glucose and breaking down glycogen, which are all important for endurance and, uh, moderate intensity exercise. Allison Brager: Uh, when it comes to strength, our, um, bodies usually leverage all those resources that make us good strength athletes at night. Uh, so they’ve done all these studies with power lifters, both recreational and Olympic power lifters, and they’ve found that in both cases, people weightlift better in the evening, unless in the morning they’re given caffeine. Allison Brager: So in the absence of caffeine, we lift best in the evening, but with caffeine, our morning strength levels can match those at night.  Brett Gilliland: And so how far from doing that at night to going to sleep? Because I, I’ve also found like if I do do a later night workout, then it’s, I’m up, I’m kind of on, you know, I’m wired and so I can’t just go right upstairs and go to bed. Allison Brager: Yeah, so at least two or three hours. Um, so part of the reason why it’s hard to fall asleep after you exercise so close to bed is because, um, our core body temperature goes up and the amount of sleep we have is dependent on our core body temperature. Um, our quality of sleep is also dependent on it. So, you really have to give at least two hours for your core body temperature to get back down in order to be able to get good sleep after working out.  Allison Brager: Um, and then obviously with caffeine know that there’s like an eight to 10 hour rule. Um, so caffeine has a halflife of depending on who you are, like four to eight hours, which means it can be in your system for as long as eight, or for as short as eight in as long as 16 hours. Allison Brager: So you have to consider that as well, yeah.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So people that are slamming sodas at night, you know, before they go to bed or with dinner or something, that’s, that’s gonna be in your system, gonna affect your sleep.  Allison Brager: Oh yeah, for sure.  Brett Gilliland: Man. Just little things, right? I mean, just baby choices every, every day, every little choice. Brett Gilliland: It’s what’s, what’s, I’m fascinated by it because it’s just like work. It’s your mindset, it’s whatever it may be. It’s these little choices compounded day in and day out. Uh, what makes a difference for us. And so, have you seen the, uh, the show ‘Limitless’, um, on Disney?  Allison Brager: I have.  Brett Gilliland: Hey, is that not incredible?  Allison Brager: Yeah, no, it’s, uh, I, I love that this stuff is out there cause like, we’ve been doing this research for a long time and it’s, it, it’s really super helpful when, uh, you know, TV producers and, and Hollywood takes notice of it. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, yeah. So those that haven’t seen it, and, uh, especially if you have kids, you got Disney plus, just check it out. It’s Chris Hemsworth, the actor follows him through. You know, kind of meditation through cold therapy, through hot therapy, through your mindset, through taking risk, uh, memory. It’s all sorts of stuff. Brett Gilliland: It’s like a what, six part episode, I think is what it was. And it’s, it’s incredible. It’s incredible. So while we’re on that hot therapy, i.e sauna, cold Therapy, what are your thoughts on that?  Allison Brager: Oh, all wonderful too. So they definitely can help sleep. Um, very different means, but both very helpful. Uh, a few years ago we actually did a longitudinal study looking at cryotherapy. Allison Brager: Uh, so you know, cryotherapy is you go into this chamber and for three minutes, your body basically feels like it’s dying. Yeah. You know, you, you’re blasted with, uh, gaseous nitrogen that cools your skin. Um, but that three minutes of… Brett Gilliland: I literally thought I was going to die for the first minute. .  Allison Brager: Yeah, exactly. Allison Brager: And then you It’s brutal. Un yeah. Uncontrollably shivering. Um, . But the thing is, is if you, if you look at sleep directly after a cryotherapy session, and so we did this over months where we are looking at nighttime sleep on days of cryotherapy in elite athletes, um, we found an increase in sleep amount and sleep quality, uh, reported in these athletes. Allison Brager: Uh, but it’s the same thing with sauna sessions too. This like bolus of stress through, um,increasing the, the stress arm of the, the nervous system, uh, leads to a compensatory response of relaxation, which can improve sleep.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. I do a sauna session about, I dunno, five times a week. It’s, it’s incredible. I, and in just the sweating, the pure amount of sweat and then, you know, I watch my heart rate and my ‘Whoop’. as it continues to climb, right? It’s like, I’m just sitting there. I’m not doing anything. I’m, I’m trying to breathe and relax and it’s like, it continues to climb, which I think from a cardiovascular standpoint, that’s gotta be pretty good too for me. Allison Brager: Oh no, absolutely. Yeah, I think, um, you know, I think this type of training is getting more popular that we call it zone zone two training, cuz that’s pretty much what it is as increasing your heart rate within, um, you know, 60 to 70% of your max heart rate for an hour, two hours at a time. I mean, that’s really the key to longevity and fitness. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Allison Brager: …is doing, um, you know, exposing your body to, to things like that, and heat therapy is very much part of that.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I also thought I was gonna die in my cold tub this morning. It’s just brutal. Do you do that very often? What’s that? Allison Brager: Oh, in St. Louis. I can only imagine.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, it’s brutal. Uh, thankfully it’s inside, right? Brett Gilliland: I just, it’s inside. I’m not going outside, but it’s still brutal. And it’s, it’s every time I do it, I’m like, I don’t wanna do it at all.  Allison Brager: Yeah. Uh, yeah, I do do cold therapy. So that’s the thing about where I work. I work for Special Forces, so we have, um, pretty much these high performance training facilities that are modeled off of what the NFL teams have. Allison Brager: So yeah, I do all that stuff. I’m very, I’m very fortunate in that I have access to it.  Brett Gilliland: Yes. Yeah. And are you better at it the longer you do it? Am I gonna get better at this or is it suck every time still?  Allison Brager: Yes, oh, you will. I mean, yes. You, you definitely like, that’s the beauty of bodies is we acclimate to whatever stress we continually expose ourselves to, whether it’s harmful or good stress. Allison Brager: Yeah. Uh, so you will acclimate.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That might be the one thing that I do of, uh, everything you can do in your life. It’s, it is the one thing that I think, I actually feel different coming out of that. I mean, like, like literally feel different.  Allison Brager: Yeah. It’s, uh, you know, but there’s so much research now around it too, and it makes perfect sense because, uh, if you’ve seen those studies by Whimhoff, like you voluntarily pretty much gain control of this area of your nervous system. Allison Brager: That’s usually an involuntary uh, system. So people who constantly do cold immersion therapy end up getting sick less too, because there’s this link that we know now between that and the immune system.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, and it’s funny, when I see my heart rate on in the sauna session this morning, it’s going up and then I look at my heart rate on the cold therapy and it spikes really high. Brett Gilliland: And then, as you know, you can start to control your breathing and, and watching that thing go down. It, it’s, it’s incre. I, i it’s just assumed by enough people that  Brett Gilliland: I, you know, study and follow that it’s happening. It, it, this is just absolutely top-notch stuff for your body and for all of us. They’re listening to this right? Allison Brager: Oh no. Absolutely.  Brett Gilliland: So let’s talk about the, the mental side. You know, there’s so much people talk about now this mental health, um, that’s out there. And I use air quotes because like, what does that really mean, right? Like, what is mental health? What are we doing? How are we taking care of ourselves? And I know right now you wrote the first edition of the NCAA Student Athlete Mental Health Handbook. Brett Gilliland: That mean that’s incredible, man, whether it’s our military, our college students, high school students, athletes, the, the world. We need to be talking more about this mental health stuff. So share with us about this handbook and what can we be doing, uh, to make sure we’re in our, in optimal performance of our mental health. Allison Brager: Yeah, sure. So, um, this task force is still ongoing. It’s through the NCAA, it’s basically representatives from each of the, um, research societies involved with mental health. Um, and it’s a huge problem across the NCAA because athletes are about three times more likely to have mental health issues than their non-athlete peers. Allison Brager: Um, the reason why mental health has become of increasing concern in recent years, is because, you know, if you think about life now, it’s certainly a lot more overwhelming than it was 20 years ago. And a lot of that has to do with technology, right? It’s easy to access someone within any given space or time or know where somebody is. Allison Brager: And so I, I don’t think our brains like, have evolved at the speed at which technology has, like that’s one of the prevailing theories about why there’s increasing mental health concernsis our brains still, like they’re very adaptive, but they still live in a pre-technology world. And so we’re at this point now where technology continues to make our lives easier and more productive.  Allison Brager: But at the cost of us having increased anxiety, um, increased, you know, feelings of like fomo, right? Fear of missing out. Yeah. Like that was never a term a decade ago. Um, and so what this task force really tries to do is to. Find ways for athletes in particular to disconnect. Like how throughout the day can you just intentionally just focus on school, focus on sport, not worry about any sort of performance anxiety around the sport. Allison Brager: And then also like establish meaningful community. So, um, having a sense of community and having a tribe of people where you feel like a member of, uh, can really improve one’s mental health. Um, you know, I think that’s the beauty of the ‘Whoop’, right? Is because we all have these groups, right? And like at the end of the work week, I look forward to, um, you know, seeing if I had the highest sleep score, highest recovery score of this group I’m on. Allison Brager: Um, and, you know, we like talk crap to each other about if, if somebody didn’t sleep. But it’s just like the other people they connect you with on the platform. I think, uh, you know, something like that has probably increased mental health because of this sense of belongingness.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. And, and so what, what is it like, do you have times in your day where you don’t use your cell phone or you putting it away? Brett Gilliland: I mean, obviously the, the depth of knowledge that you have on this is greater than, than  Brett Gilliland: I have and probably will ever. Um, but like what, and I don’t necessarily like the words life hacks, but I think people understand that. And so what life hacks, if you will, would you have around technology or making sure we’re in that, that mental peak performance? Allison Brager: Yeah, so, uh, I, I think I have very intentional habits about when I do and don’t use my cell phone. Um, well first off, my job makes it easy. I don’t have a cell phone cuz I work in a secure building. So, yeah. Uh, for nine hours a day, the only way people can reach me is through my desk phone or through email. Allison Brager: But even that, I check sparingly. Uh, but e even if you didn’t have a job like mine, I think you need to find times where you just intentionally need to leave your phone somewhere and just be okay with it. Um, so with me, for example, I do CrossFit and every time I go to the gym, I literally just leave my phone in the car. Allison Brager: Like that’s, and, and CrossFit is my hour to an hour and a half a day where I can be fully present, not distracted, and just connect with the community. Now, like if we’re going for, if I’m going for a PR or something in the gym, like I might go out and grab my phone, but most of the time I just have the coach record it and then that’s it. Allison Brager: Um, Drive to work, right? Like so much of us spend so much of the day in the car and I know a lot of people listen to podcasts and all that. Um, but you can also listen to those podcasts or I listen to music cuz I’m a big music aficionado. Um, I’ll put my phone on airplane mode and just have like the podcasts or the playlist pre downloaded and just do that. Allison Brager: And then at night too, like I intentionally put my phone away and then I don’t pick it up. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s awesome. Takes a lot of discipline, doesn’t it?  Allison Brager: Yeah, absolutely. Well, that’s what it is. It’s discipline.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Anything, so you logging your workouts or is it, uh, does your ‘Whoop’ know you’re already working out? You do your CrossFit or you just not worry about logging it?  Allison Brager: Uh, I don’t log my workouts anymore. I’ve been doing CrossFit now almost 13 years. So like, you know, I used to keep a journal and all that. But now I’m just, My ‘Whoop’ knows everything.  Brett Gilliland: Exactly. They know what the hell you’re doing. Uh, talk to us about your book ‘Meathead: Unraveling the Athletic Brain’. Tell us that.  Allison Brager: Yeah, so I, um, I wrote this actually almost a decade ago, so, um, but it’s still very relevant and timely. Yeah. Uh, so I used to teach a neuroscience course when I was, uh, sleep research fellow in Atlanta, and I realized that so much of the neuroscience course did not blend together exercise with neuroscience when so much of exercise like 90% of exercise is not about muscle recruitment and activation, it’s about recruiting different brain areas involved with timing and decision making and situational awareness and like leveraging the resources to do so. Um, and so I just started looking into the literature and sure enough there’s like very little out there. Allison Brager: So I wrote a, it’s more or less like a textbook on the neuroscience of exercise but digestible for anyone. So, um, it blends my own personal experiences as an athlete. I was fortunate enough to compete twice in the CrossFit games. Um, I was on the Army’s CrossFit team, which is part of the Army has this world class athlete program, uh, where they have, uh, Olympic and professional athletes compete full-time in the army. Allison Brager: Uh, so I did that and so I tried to like blend my own, you know elite athletic experiences with what we know research wise. And so, uh, yeah, that, that, that is my book. It’s called ‘Meathead: Unraveling the Athletic Brain’. Brett Gilliland: I’m having the, speaking of the CrossFit games, I think it’s in, uh, second week of January. Rich Froning. Are you familiar with Rich?  Allison Brager: Of course. I’ve actually trained with him a few times at his barn because, uh, the Army, we actually, when the team was around, we actually had a, um, nice little collaboration with Mayhem Athlete. Brett Gilliland: Okay. And he’s kinda like the Michael Jordan of CrossFit games, is that what I hear? Allison Brager: He is, yeah. I mean, I know Matt Frazier has won more than Rich.  Brett Gilliland: Okay.  Allison Brager: But Rich Is, rich is an og. He’s been in it since the very beginning when it was just crossfit.com and there weren’t all these programs around. I mean, not to like discredit the wonderful athletic, athleticism of Matt Frazier, but I would consider Rich the, the Michael Jordan of CrossFit. Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. Like the debates, right? Is it Michael Jordan or LeBron? Is it Lionel Messey or Pele? You know, who knows, right? Uh,  Allison Brager: Yeah, exactly.  Brett Gilliland: Well, uh, so where else can our listeners find more of your stuff?  Brett Gilliland: Um, uh, so do you have a website or is it uh, more through social media?  Allison Brager: Yeah, more through social media. Allison Brager: So, um, yeah, my job makes it a little complicatedto have a website. Um, Yeah, so DOCJOCKZZZ, that’s my personal Instagram. D O C J O C K Z Z Z. Um, and yeah, just reach out and I’ll, you know, reach out to a question. I usually post up and coming research.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s incredible. So last question for you here, Alison, is if, uh, if you had to talk about any of the, maybe any of the failures you’ve had in your life, um, if there are some, I’m sure there are. Brett Gilliland: Um, what, what have you learned from those failures and what advice would you give to our listeners right now that may be going through something that’s tough?  Allison Brager: Sure. Um, one of my favorite quotes is “Trust the process and be patient.” Um, So I could give a recent example or do you want me to go way back in time? Brett Gilliland: No, whatever. Whatever’s a recent example’s. Great. Cuz you probably, it’s uh, it’s recent, so it’s very fresh in the mind.  Allison Brager: Okay, so, um, this isn’t on my LinkedIn bio, but my end goal is to be an astronaut and I made it through the second, I make it, made it to the second final round of selection for the last astronaut class. Allison Brager: Um, obviously I didn’t make it to the final round and get selected. Uh, so I’ve, you know, I’ve done a lot of things reflection personally and professionally to like figure out how I can make it to the last round. Um, and, uh, you know, that the thing, trust the process and be patient came to mind because, uh, I learned when I was at NASA interviewing and going through a selection there that a lot of the astronauts took like two or three times to get selected and they only have a selection process every four years. So like most of those people, most of the astronauts who are up in space right now are awaiting training, um, have been in the pipeline just trying to get selected for at least a decade. Um, and some of them will go through the pipeline and maybe, you know, don’t have what it takes to be up in space and, um, just go through training. Allison Brager: That’s, that’s all they didn’t do. They might not actually go on a mission. I know there’s this one Canadian astronaut, he’s still waiting to go on a mission and he’s been an astronaut for over a decade.  Brett Gilliland: Wow.  Allison Brager: Um, so, so that’s my thing is to just, you know, trust the process and be patient and, you know, eventually good things happen to, to people who work hard. Um, so yeah, that’s my recent example.  Brett Gilliland: I love that. Allison Brager: I can reapply in 2024. So… Brett Gilliland: Okay. That’s what I was gonna ask. So then what did you, what have you learned from that? When they tell you no or however that form of, of communication is? Like, do they tell you, here are the things you’re lacking on, or Here, here’s a, an opportunity for you. How does that look?  Allison Brager: No. So that’s the funny thing. They don’t really give you… unless you’re medically disqualified or like psychologically unfit, cuz that’s a lot of the selection. They don’t really give you feedback. Um, I mean, most of the things are, you know, related to public speaking, like having more confidence. Allison Brager: But in terms of what you do, you just have to trust that if you keep going after. High level challenging problems that eventually you could get selected, but you also have to, you know, go in with the mindset that you might not get selected. But I mean, truly at the end of today, like what I’ve learned from it, even if I don’t say make it through as far as I did the next time, is I met 120 great Americans who, like I have connections with the rest of my life. Allison Brager: Like we still all talk all the time. Um, you know, we wish each other happy birthday or if we’re in certain areas of the country, like I meet up with them, I tru truly just have access to 120 Great Americans. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Who are still doing amazing work at whatever their day job is, just like your day job. Right? Allison Brager: Yep.  Brett Gilliland: And, and it’s, uh, it’s incredible out there. So. Well, Alison, thanks so much for being on the ‘Circuit of Success’. It’s been awesome having you. I appreciate you coming out of your, uh, secure building in there and, and getting your Jeep and, and spending some time with us today. It was really awesome to have you and, uh, And best of luck and, and you know, one day we’ll have you back on when you’re an astronaut. How’s that sound? Allison Brager: Yeah, exactly. When, when I’m, when I’m headed, uh, to Mars.  Brett Gilliland: That’s right.  Allison Brager: I’m the, the, the two-way and not the one way mission, but… Brett Gilliland: Yes. That’s right. You’re coming back. Going to and coming back. That will be good. We’ll have you on before and after, so. Well, thanks so much for the time today, Allison. It’s been awesome having you.  Allison Brager: Sure, absolutely. Thank you so much for your time too.  

Kelley Tyan’s book and podcast, both titled, ‘Addicted to the Climb’, inspires, empowers, and encourages you to keep on climbing no matter what mountains you face. Her success as a faith-based entrepreneur, author, coach and mother have given Kelley a well-versed knowledge of the importance in setting intentional time alone, and with family and significant others. Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland, and today I’ve got Kelly Tyan with me. Kelly, how you doing?  Kelley Tyan: I’m doing great. How are you, Brett?  Brett Gilliland: I am doing well. It’s good to be with you. It’s a little gloomy and rainy here. It feels like it’s been foggy for like a month. It’s, it’s not really been, but it feels like it. How’s the weather out in Boston? Kelley Tyan: It’s freezing. However, we have sunshine today, which is a plus.  Brett Gilliland: Oh, it’s beautiful. We have not seen that for a while and it’s supposed, are you guys gonna get the snow that’s coming in? Supposedly?  Kelley Tyan: I’m not sure.  Brett Gilliland: Okay.  Kelley Tyan: We just got our first snow on Sunday, which is always fun. And until it turns, you know, brown and muddy .  Brett Gilliland: Exactly. You gotta run the car through it.  Kelley Tyan: Yes, yes, but I would love to have a white Christmas. That would be amazing. Brett Gilliland: That would be amazing. Well, some fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. So you are a leading faith-based entrepreneur, a coach, a speaker, an author. A, uh, podcaster, which is awesome. You and I have something in common there. Um, and so, uh, and your book and your podcast is called ‘Addicted to the Climb’, uh, which is a faith fuel movement that, uh, that inspires, empowers and creates courage to keep on climbing no matter what mountains you face. I love hearing that. And that’s when we were connected through LinkedIn. Uh, I saw that. I’m like, we gotta get her on the podcast. And, and here we are. So, but if you can tell us a little bit about yourself, Kelly, kinda what’s made you the woman you are today.  Kelley Tyan: Well, thank you so much for having me again, and what made me, what makes me the woman I am today is just everything that I’ve been through in life. I’m a breast cancer survivor. I’ve been through grief. I lost my mom. I was an only child. Um, my dad had a rare blood cancer, so all the trials and hardships I’ve been through made me realize I am on the climb. I’m not going backwards. I [00:02:00] wanna keep moving forward and how can I help others and take them along with me? If I can get through these things, you certainly can too. I’m no different than you. And um, so that’s what really my messaging is all about. And that’s really the woman I am today. It’s really through everything we go through is, I say at first it might have broke me, but then it built me.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Kelley Tyan: If you believe that. And so, I believe that, and I wanna keep climbing no matter what I face. There’s no giving up.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. What, how old were you when your mom passed? Kelley Tyan: She passed five years ago.  Brett Gilliland: Okay.  Kelley Tyan: So I’m not telling you how old I was.  Brett Gilliland: Okay. That’s a trick question, right? Uh, yeah, I, I was thinking maybe even as a child, which my gosh is an only child, and, uh, losing your mom, it’s never easy. But losing ’em early would be tough too. So, so breast cancer survivor. So a little side note, my wife and I started a foundation for cancer in 2007, so we’re going back ways now. Uh, and it was started because of breast [00:03:00] cancer. Actually, my wife’s mom, grandma, and two of her aunts were all diagnosed within breast, with breast cancer within like a seven month period. Kelley Tyan: Wow. Brett Gilliland: And, and so we started this charity and it’s been amazing. Um, ever since 2007, the people, the community that come out and support it. And then you fast forward six weeks after we started our foundation, my dad had cancer. You know, he is gotten it a second time. Her dad’s got cancer, you know, now we have aunt’s, uncles, friends, loved ones. It’s just, you know, I always, when anytime I speak about cancer, I’ll ask them, everybody in the room to stand up that’s been impacted by this disease. And you know, the whole room stands up, right? Whether it’s yourself or a loved one. It, it’s just, it’s incredible. It does not discriminate. Cancer sucks. And, uh, so awesome hats off to you for being a breast cancer survivor. We love that. And, uh, it’s a whole other podcast that we can have on that, I’m sure, but we’ll leave that for another day. Um, so if you can, why don’t we, I’d like to start with just kind of habits. You know, you coach, uh, men and women, but mostly women, I think all over the, you know, the world probably, and, and, you’re [00:04:00] seeing some things that need to go on in the crazier world that we live in today. But what, what do you see are those two or three no miss items, uh, that people really need to be focusing on every single day to live their best life?  Kelley Tyan: Well, the number one thing I think to live their best life is people need to always have a vision in, um, a future look into what they want. If there’s no vision, then they cannot be successful, no matter what. We can plan and have goals, but I believe in really believing and seeing ourselves as the success that we wanna be or whatever it is we’re trying to achieve. I think it all comes down to having a vision. And that’s where it starts. Because I know for me, I knew I wanted, I saw myself speaking on stages. I saw myself constantly having the vision of mentoring women, coaching women. And I focused on that [00:05:00] all the time. Every single day I woke up, I thought about it. I, it was always on my mind and that’s what I worked towards. And I think that’s how I, you can make things happen for yourself.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, I know we talked about, you said, uh, or I said faith-based, entrepreneur, coach, speaker, all that stuff, but, you know, faith-based, let’s go there. The, the Bible even talks about right, without a vision, people perish. And, and our firm’s name is called Visionary Wealth Advisors and what the future could and will be like. Uh, cuz I, I agree. I mean, I think without that vision, without the end in mind, who knows where we’re going and on the, you know, no pun intended with the rainy day out there, but you know, when it rains in our personal lives or our professional lives, That vision for me over the last two decades has kept me going on what I’m trying to build, and I’m constantly working on that. So when you hear that, let’s, let’s dive deeper into that. In a vision, how do people go out and find that, and what steps can we take to, to create that?  Kelley Tyan: Well, I wanna backtrack a minute because I believe there are two different kind of people out there. The ones who we can experience the same rainy day. And that’s what made me think about it. And one person is going to use the rain and say, I’m gonna go out for a run today in. Run in the rain and I’m gonna get my workout in even though it’s rainy and cold, and the other person is going to say, ah, it’s raining, it’s cold. I don’t wanna move. I’m, ah, they’re gonna use rain as an excuse. So that’s… Brett Gilliland: That’s a great point. Kelley Tyan: That shows me, you know, there’s what kind of person do you wanna be? Do you wanna have a vision of being, I can use healthy and fit for this example; Do you want, if you wanna be healthy and fit, then no matter rain or shine, you’re out there doing your workout. The other person is just thinking about it, wishing for it, not taking action. They don’t have a vision of being healthy and fit, so they’re staying home and they’re in the same place they are they were four months ago, eight months ago, wondering why. So it really comes down to making a [00:07:00] choice. How do you wanna live your life? Am I gonna be an action taker in the rain or the shine? Am I gonna keep climbing no matter what, because we can make excuses all day long, right? Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Kelley Tyan: All of us. But we have to make that decision that I see myself healthy and strong. How am I gonna get there? And to get there, you have to take action. Set up habit. And just move. Just go.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I think it’s, it’s good. Especially this time of the year, I mean this, when this podcast airs, it’ll be probably the end of December, beginning of January. And I think about, it’s always a great time to reflect on the year, what we’ve just learned from our past. And I talk about the three Ps, your past, your peers, and your potential. And so let’s talk about the past. What did we just learn from 2022, right? How have we come out of this pandemic? How did we come out of a year with good economy, bad economy, depending on what type of business you’re in. But let’s look forward, and I think, you know, one question I would ask myself with a journal and a ink pen, if I’m somebody listening to this and struggles with this type of stuff, is, what does success mean to me? Right? What does success mean to me? And I don’t mean financial success, I just mean success, period. And so when I asked that to the people listening, I’ll ask it to you as well, what does success mean to you? Kelley Tyan: I love that question because I take the finances right out of it. Always.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. Kelley Tyan: Because success to me is really about, am I fulfilled? Am I doing what I’m passionate about doing? Am I serving other people? Am I making an impact somewhere? Whether you are, you might not be a speaker or a leader, but yes, you’re a leader in your family. Are you leading the right way? Are you feeling fulfilled in your life? So, I think that’s really sums up what success is to me, living an abundant life. And you mentioned I am faithful, so is my faith on point? Am I not wavering in my faith? And that to me, Is how I feel successful every [00:09:00] single day.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So if we could, I’m gonna go through my ‘F’ to the fifth power, if that’s okay. And I think you’re gonna connect with these, that’s why I wanna spend some time on it. So, anytime, and you and I busy people, you get asked to do things and I, I filter it through these five buckets. If I’m saying yes or if I’m saying no. Does it move the needle in this part of my life? And so ‘F’ the fifth power, first one is faith, so how does that play out for you in the business world, but also personally? Uh, I should have looked at this. I apologize. I Oh yeah. You’re a mother of two children, uh, you’re married and, and so how does that play out for you in your business life, in your personal life? How’s faith play in that?  Kelley Tyan: Oh, faith is the foundation of everything in my whole entire world. I just have a really strong faith in, in my, let’s take my family life. You have to have faith or else  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Kelley Tyan: For me, you, you crumble, you have, you let, wary, fear, anxiety. I mean, I [00:10:00] guess you can say in both your business and in your family life, if we, if we let fear overtake us, we’re not gonna, the needle’s not gonna move. We’re gonna be stuck because we’re too fearful to take that next step. So, that’s where faith comes in. And when I lean, when you lean into your faith, You have you. If you have faith that is small as a mustard seed, it can move mountains. You just have to truly believe that. And having faith in yourself, it’s easy to say, but it’s back to that vision. If you are, if you feel you’re meant for more, you have to believe you’re meant for more. Take the action that goes along with those, the path you wanna be on an just keep going in faith that you will accomplish what you said you would do, if you keep moving forward. So faith to me is wraps up. That’s how I, I wake up in faith. I try not to let, of course I have fear, of course I have teenage kids.  So sometimes, you know, you’re anxious about your kids driving and all that other stuff. Worry what they’re doing. I mean, but you can let that take you down in a minute.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Kelley Tyan: And I, I, it’s a choice at the end of the day to choose faith over fear in everything we’re doing.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah, you’re right. Hey, how, how old are the kiddos? Kelley Tyan: I have a 23 year old and a 16 year old, and I need a lot of faith with those kids.  Brett Gilliland: I’m with you. I’ve got a, uh, 17, 15, 12, and eight in,uh. You know, but I’m, it’s funny because now I’m the old parent, like when I’m hanging around the eight year old families, you know, at school or whatever it may be, I’m like, oh man, I’m that guy. Right? They all look like little kids. And it’s, it’s awesome to see the, not the kids, but the parents look like kids. Mm-hmm. Um, but it is, I always tell ’em, big kids, big problems, little kids, little problems. And it, it is crazy, isn’t it? And you think about those things. It’s scary.  Kelley Tyan: Yes. I just, I, I was just talk, I did a podcast with [00:12:00] the other day. We were just talking about that and I said, between the ages of maybe four, 15 and 17. You know, the driver’s license. I mean, you can be up all night.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Kelley Tyan: Fear and worry. Yeah. As if you have children under 10, they’re home sleeping, they’re still listening to you. They’re still pretty much following your household’s rules. But yes, hang on to those years because it does change, which every stage is so much fun with children, but having a strong faith that they will be okay. It is all we can do. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. That, that five year old fear is that they’re gonna choke on the Lego or something, right? And then it’s uh, or that, what time are they coming home? Are they driving? It’s cloudy or it’s, uh, you know, it’s dark out, all that stuff. So it’s faith we hit that box. That’s great. I love that. I think it’s, uh, what I hear is it’s a huge part of your life. Um, and I’m assuming you’re reading, whether it’s in the Bible, you’re reading books, uh, it’s daily prayer. I mean, all those things are happening for you every day. Right? Uh, okay, so [00:13:00] what about family? So now how do we, again, in this busy schedule of life, we wanna run a business. We wanna be an entrepreneur, a, a teacher, a lawyer, whatever it may be. We wanna be successful. But how do we also then focus on family?  Kelley Tyan: I, it all comes down to being intentional when it comes to family because the phones can take over. I mean, we can be busy all day doing our business, especially entrepreneurs out there. We are constantly looking at our phones with email, but I think being very intentional about quality time, whether it’s, I feel as parents, they put a lot of stress. If they’re not spending an hour, I say, take the stress off. Spend 10 minutes of quality time with your spouse or your children, maybe more with your spouse, but. So in a day that, that we are, we’re all very busy. Our children are very busy, but I think it’s quality time and being intentional about that time can really just bring the happiness. You can go to bed feeling better at the end of the day if you are intentional about doing that, because the day can get away from you and you’re like, I didn’t even talk to my kid today, right? Brett Gilliland: Yeah, that’s right. I’m just writing that stuff down here. Sorry. So I, I think too, on the family side for me, I do an exercise every quarter of, I look back at my, you know, you grab your phone here and you look at all the pictures that you’ve taken over the last 90 days, and I go through and I write down all the moments that I just shared with my family, right? Whether it’s just my wife or my wife and kids, just a kid, whatever it may be. I literally write them down in a journal every month and then I plan the next 90 days. Or what are those things that we’re gonna go do? Right? So it may be as simple as what concerts are coming to St. Louis this quarter, right? Or whatever it  is that you want to go do. But your, to your point, I’m just piggyback on what you said is be intentional. I had a business leader tell me yesterday, he, you know, we, as we’re coaching him through the end of the year and in the next year, he said, I, next year is the year of self-care. And he goes, I’ve got to make my [00:15:00] family a bigger priority. He’s a great family guy, but he is like, I gotta make it a bigger priority, bigger things as kids get older, right? And so that’s just one exercise that I think is good. What, what is it that you may do for intentional stuff to make sure the family’s a focus?  Kelley Tyan: The same thing. I, we are so intentional about taking a family, you know, a couple family trips to, because my daughter doesn’t live in the house, she’s out living in the city. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Kelley Tyan: So we have to be very intentional planning. When can the four of us take a weekend or a night? I like to get out of the house. Take ’em out there, go to a hotel, take ’em to Florida, wherever we go. And um, that’s very, that’s at the top of my priority list. Yeah. Every quarter to be with my family. Brett Gilliland: Love it.  Kelley Tyan: As all four of us. Yes.  Brett Gilliland: Where, where’s the spot in Florida? You gotta a go to spot or you switch it around?  Kelley Tyan: We do. We, well, we do because my dad is there. He’s in Delray. So, Fort Lauderdale, Delray.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Sure. Awesome. We have an office  in Palm Beach Gardens, so not too far from there.  Kelley Tyan: Oh. And my cousin’s in Palm Beach. So I’m there all the time. Mm-hmm.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome. I love it. So, faith, family. Um, now we talk about fitness. How, how has that play out in your life? Kelley Tyan: Okay, so coming from a fitness background, I’ve been a coach in fitness and health since 2008. It is another top priority for me. I work out every single day. I am, I try to be the example in my own family for health, and it is a priority for my husband and my son and my daughter. So , fitness is at the top of the list. Those are the three. Family, I mean, well, faith for me is first, family and my health and fitness because without our health we have nothing. So we focus a lot on health and fitness and working out. Even as a family, sometimes we go to the gym all together, which is so nice. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I love that. And, and I think of that in, um, you know, the, the accountability there is huge, right? I mean, when you think about your family, if they see mom doing it. And, and I would say that that’s where my inspiration, my wife is very disciplined with that stuff. Just being healthy, right? Staying, staying active and all that stuff. And I don’t want to be the guy that’s, you know, 90 years old and, and not being able to do it or dead right? I, my goal is to play golf at 100. And so, uh, you know, doing what I do for a living, it’s wealth management stuff. As I talk about your wealth and your health and how they’re so interlocked is if you have the best health in the world, but you never saved a dime. Well, guess what? Your health is probably gonna decline because you have no money. You can’t go do anything. Right? And vice versa, if you have all the money in the world, you worked your butt off, but you didn’t take care of yourself, guess what? Your money’s gonna go away because it’s gonna be paying for the doctor bills. Right? Or you’re gonna be dead. So those two things, I, in my opinion, go hand in hand. And so how much time should we be [00:18:00] spending knowing what you know? Uh, for us, you know, 40 year olds, 50 year olds that listen to this stuff, and maybe even the 30 year olds that need to start to worry about this stuff; cardio versus strength versus mobility.  Kelley Tyan: Well, this is what I say, you have to first find something you love to do. If you don’t like boot camps, then don’t. It’s gonna be agonizing to go to a boot camp class. You have to find what you like to do. Movement is the key, whether you’re going for a walk outside, whether you take 20 minutes and just move your body in front of the tv. I know a lot of people stress out about trying to fit into workout. “Oh, I don’t have time.”, “I can’t go to the gym.”, “Oh, I’m too intimidated.” You can do something at home. Like I said in the beginning, yeah, there’s always an excuse that can be made for any of it, but I say find something that lights you up, whether it is going for a walk, walk your dog. Just do something for at least 20 minutes, three to five times a week, so [00:19:00] you’re moving your body, because most of us are sitting 90% of the time. Brett Gilliland: Right. Kelley Tyan: And without movement, like you said, our joints we have to take care of. We’re gonna be, you don’t wanna wake up with stiff knees when you’re 45. And that comes down to… Brett Gilliland: Now, wait a second. How do you know I’m 45 with stiff knees? Dang it. How do you know that?  Kelley Tyan: Well, cause I’ve been working with people for years and I see it and they don’t wanna move. And it’s very important, like you said, our health is our wealth. Because without it, we can have all the money in the world. That doesn’t matter when you’re sick at home because you didn’t take care of yourself.  Brett Gilliland: That’s right.  Kelley Tyan: So what needs to be priority in movement And you don’t have to do crazy classes, it’s just moving. Brett Gilliland: Yep. Great. Great feedback. So fun. So the fourth ‘F’ is fun. I mean, you gotta schedule fun in my opinion, right? And, and not only just schedule it, but have fun, man. There’s so much bad crap going on in this world. [00:20:00] My business partner ,Tim Hammond, and I talk about all the time is just have fun. Just be, have some joy at work, laugh. You know, and I think so many times if, if we don’t have that in our culture, be the person in that culture that can bring the fun. So thoughts, feedback on that.  Kelley Tyan: I love this. So my husband is the fun in the family, easy. He’s, he loves planning things and I’m more, I’m pretty content being home, so I have to give him props and credit for always scheduling fun. We actually, we’re going to meet Kevin Hart this weekend. Brett Gilliland: Oh, nice.  Kelley Tyan: He schedules the fun. I am not in any lack for fun over here at all because I have to say it’s my husband, if it wasn’t for him. He schedules vacations and let’s go do this, Kelly, and which I’m so appreciative. I really am. Cause you’re right, I would probably not schedule as much fun if he didn’t push me. So, I really think it’s truly important. It changes our dynamic and our family. It changes the relationship. When you schedule fun. You go back to being silly. Just what you said, you have to, you can’t be serious all the time. Life is not supposed to be serious all the time. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, and as you know, having a 23 year old I I, I noticed as it seems like, it just goes like that, that the, the fun for me is also, I can also call it the experiences, right? That, they go so fast. I just want to enjoy as much as I possibly can. I was blessed. My parents did that with me. I have a lot of great experiences that I was able to do as a kid. I want to keep that going, right, into my, into my children and, and so, but it goes so fast. So I think again, it comes back to the intentional, you, you mentioned it earlier, we gotta be intentional with this stuff. So, And it’s good to have a CFO, Chief Fun Officer, of your house, your husband, right? So. Kelley Tyan: I, I have that for sure. Brett Gilliland: And then the last one, I call it firm, but because that’s what we have as a firm, but it could be work, but that’s my fifth ‘F’ is firm. How do we get dialed in? Now, kind of what you do is helping people through your coaching business. What are the things that we needed to be doing on the quote, unquote rainy day? Since we keep talking about that, what are the things at work we need to be doing on maybe days you don’t want to do it?  Kelley Tyan: Well, it all comes down to we, we’ve already talked about being intentional for what you, your goals are, but it’s really, I used to. People would say to me, “Kelly, how are you so motivated? And I really had to let go of trying to find my motivation and I started relying on my routine and my habits that are in place. So I think it’s setting up your habits. What, you know, what we’re all different. My habits in the morning, I had to start setting up a morning routine because I used to start my day in chaos and running out the door and it wasn’t serving me. I was just too flustered. So I was intentional about setting my [00:23:00] morning routine, which is reading my Bible, being quiet, letting, keeping the noise out so I can hear my own thoughts, be in some prayer. But I think it’s really about setting yourself up for success that way, and setting up habits, putting habits in place, and that’s really how you’ll find your motivation in life. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Kelley Tyan: Don’t you agree? Brett Gilliland: I do, I do agree. And I think it’s, it’s setting up your priorities and, and I’ll talk about focus 90 here in a minute, but do you, do you find that you, you do that the same time every day? Do you beat yourself up or this morning routine? Is it get up and do things before the kids get up? Like, what’s that, what’s that chaotic life that we all live? What’s that like for you?  Kelley Tyan: It’s, I don’t beat myself up, but it, it’s, I, you know, I have pretty much three non-negotiables in my life and those are: wake up with prayer, my quiet time, my fitness, my faith, um, and of course my work, maybe there’s four. But yeah, that’s really what it comes down to is, um, not putting pressure on myself. If I don’t get it in first thing in the morning, which I like to start my day with quiet time. Sometimes it doesn’t work that way, so I don’t beat myself up, but I make sure I do get it in. At some point in, because it makes me feel successful when I do that. I feel happy. I get my happiness and fulfillment from that, from my fitness, from my workouts, from my morning time, and so those are non-negotiables for me. Yep. Brett Gilliland: Would you say it gets easier? We just talked about big kids, big problems, little kids, little problems. But what I’ve experienced as my youngest is now eight, is, you know, can have the alarm set and get up on his own and do the, brushing his teeth and get dressed and make his bed, you know, all the things, right? I, I’m thinking about that mom or dad right now that’s listening to this and they’re like, “Dude, you guys don’t understand, man, my kids are, you know, 1, 3, 5 and whatever. Right? One, three, and five and, and I’m brutally tired in the morning. It’s, you know, getting up in the middle of the night and it’s like, and you guys sit here and talk about this morning routine. Right? Well, that sounds fine and dandy, but some people just quite frankly aren’t in that spot that they can do that right now. So what’s that like? What advice would you have for that mom or that dad that’s 33 years old, right? And dealing with the stuff that we dealt with years ago. Kelley Tyan: Oh man, do I remember those days. First of all, I’m praying for you right now, but no. I just think having you have to schedule time for some kind of rest. Which, I define rest as release every single thing. We all have pressures. We all have stress. The kids, you have a three, five, and a seven year old. We’re tired parents. But if you are not intentional, how many times are we gonna say that about scheduling five minutes of rest. Go up into your bedroom, shut the door. Everybody can find a way to [00:26:00] just alleviate some of that pressure in the day. But, again, it all comes down to a choice. You can run yourself ragged day after day after day, but if you are not the one scheduling that rest saying to your spouse or your kids ,even, I need a minute. I just need a few minutes to myself, then you’re not gonna have the minutes. So you have to. Ask for it, right? You have to make sure your family knows, I need some time. I have to schedule that in, and I’m going to be intentional about it because it’s good for my health. We can’t run on fumes constantly. We have to schedule that rest time. It’s very important.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Hey, I, I couldn’t, you actually made me write something down that I’ve never really thought about, but for me, I, I call it focus 90, so it’s, it’s 90 days. So I have a goal, right? My goals are written in my journal right here that I’ve created. This is the future grade than your past journal, [00:27:00] and it, it, my goals are written down and things I want to do, but I’ve also got, you know, four or five activities every 90 days, that I need to be working on and getting better at. It may be a work related goal, it may be a revenue goal, it may be a vacation goal. It may be, you know, read 10 pages, goal, whatever they are, right? They’re all across the board, and I focus on those for 90 days. But, also , other part of that 90 is 90 minutes to start each day. So where I had to get to is if I didn’t do it, I was a failure. You know, I wasn’t being successful. But what helped me, It’s gotta be in that morning time, but it may be before the kids get up. It may be after they go off to school. Then my next 90 minutes is that. But just commit and not beat yourself up over not doing it the exact same time, the exact same way, every single day because that’s really, really hard to commit to. And then for me, it’s the accountability part with it. So, ‘F’ 90, Focus 90 made me fan. I just created that focus and accountability, 90. Right. Yeah. And I think that’s crucial. So tell me about accountability for you. How important is it and what accountability parameters, if you have any that you’ve got set up in your life?  Kelley Tyan: Oh. Accountability I feel is the key to success in a way. I have two coaches that keep me accountable. I mean, here I am, I led fitness.  Brett Gilliland: So time out, time out. We’re gonna, we’re gonna start that over again cause I don’t wanna just gloss over that. So you are, as I mentioned earlier, a faith-based entrepreneur, a coach, a speaker, author, et cetera. But you just said you have what?  Kelley Tyan: I have two coaches, an I in an elite mastermind. We we’re always growing and we need to be, have accountability so we can continue growing. I, I know that no one succeeds alone because I tried it. I tried doing it all alone.  Brett Gilliland: Doesn’t work.  Kelley Tyan: Yeah, it just doesn’t work. I need to be, I know what to eat, I know what to do for workouts, but I still need a fitness coach so I can be accountable to that person, so I can show up because some days it is, when I don’t feel like I might not show up. So I think, if you wanna move the needle, if you wanna go higher and climb to that next level, make sure you have an accountability person, coach, program, something that you are tapped into that can get you to that next level. Because you can go faster with more people leading. You know, paving the way for you than if you were to do it alone.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. And do you think that’s important to have that person?  Kelley Tyan: That’s very important for me.  Brett Gilliland: Do, do you think it’s important to have that person or that coach? Uh, I guess it’s gotta be a person, right? Like, I, I feel like I’m pretty disciplined now, uh, about getting up and working out, you know, six days a week. And my accountability is on Tuesdays and Thursdays. People are tired to hear me say this since August. I’ve got 13 guys are in a text message that [00:30:00] I text out they gotta send back. When it was nice out the weather, they had to be at my backyard, but now they gotta send a picture in. That’s huge for me. Like I know that my buddies are gonna bust my chops if I’m not sending a picture at 6:00 AM Right? Um, but do we need more than that? Is it more than an app? What is it? Kelley Tyan: I, I, I mean, I don’t, you can have a friend be your accountability partner. I don’t think, I think you just need someone that you can say, Hey, I’m gonna try to get stronger and be healthier. Have a friend just keep you accountable. I really, I just think it’s someone that you can tap into at least once a week. It doesn’t have to be so much pressure to do it every single day, but, it does matter. It does matter for your progress. Brett Gilliland: I love that. Yeah. That it’s, it’s strong. And I think too is, there’s so many things on our phones, free resources. I mean, somebody just told me about one yesterday, I, I can’t think of it. So I don’t wanna budget the name. But you know, there’s so many [00:31:00] things out there. And then just like you said, call a friend, have the buddy system hold each other. Yeah. Support group. So talk about that elite mastermind people talk about those all the time. What do you get?  Kelley Tyan: Oh, I love being a part of a mastermind in general. I’ve done numerous ones. Well, I like to tap into my industry, so I’m faith in business. And I tap into people that are a few steps ahead of me. That are doing what I wanna do. So, I’m learning from them so I can have a shorter path to where I wanna go than if I didn’t tap into these people. Because with a mastermind, you have lots of ideas instead of just your own couple ideas, and it opens up a whole world of opportunity that you might never have thought of if you were by yourself.  So I think just community is key. Tapping into different communities of, you know, whatever your goals are. It, what, where you wanna be [00:32:00] successful, whether it’s a better marriage. I mean, there’s so many communities you can be involved with in , in, um, to, to get you to that next level, to level you up. If you were, if you were doing it alone, you might not get there as fast. It will take longer.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. So, this is obviously called the Circuit of Success, uh, where we like to talk about success, but also part of success is failure, in my opinion. And, and so what, what failure have you had that you’re comfortable sharing? Um, and, and what, what failure have you had and what did you learn from it?  Kelley Tyan: Well, failure is definitely part of success, but I feel with failure, if I fail at something, I really try to look at it this way. I look at it more of a redirection to something better. Um, I’d rather fail at something and say, I tried than not try at all and have regret.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Kelley Tyan: And it’s like, with my book, I, at first I was like, well, who’s gonna buy it? Should I write it? I mean, why am I writing this? Nobody’s, does anyone really care? And, but if I didn’t write it, I would’ve had that regret. So we are gonna fail at a lot of things. I’ve had a lot of failures. I mean, just launching programs as simple as, not simple, but as small as launching a program, that field. Then you learn, well, what can I do different to make this program better? So I take it more, I try to change my mindset around failure to, if I fail, at least I tried and now maybe I’m redirected to something different. Try it a new way. Yep. So I really, it doesn’t put a lot of pressure on me anymore, like it used to when I was younger, I used to think failure was, “Oh, I’m done. I’m over.” But now it’s, it’s more of an excitement to me. If I fail, okay, I can work on this. I’m betting on myself that I can make it better the next time. Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s a huge price, like right, to, not [00:34:00] a price to pay, but a price to receive. I guess a value add is, it’s a, it’s, it’s not a failure, it’s a learning. That’s the way I position it, is all the times I’ve failed in my life. If I don’t learn something, then it’s truly a failure, right? If I just keep, you know, running my head against the wall, well then now you’re just an idiot and you’re, you’re failing. But if you learn something from it, oh, I gotta go around the wall. Great. Um, and so that’s a big, have you seen this show ‘Limitless’ on Disney Plus? I, I’m a, I think it’s Chris Hemsworth is his name. It is phenomenal. And, and it’s about the, I’ve only seen, I say it’s phenomenal. I’ve seen one episode, so I, it’s not a fair statement, but I think it’s gonna be phenomenal. And the people, uh, that told me about it, I, I highly respect their opinion and they said, I gotta watch it. But he talks about that positive mental attitude, how it changed his heart rate, his breathing. You know, all that stuff when he was in high stress situations, you know, as an actor and all these different things. Um, so it’s just something I was gonna recommend to check out. Um, if you could go back and give, uh, you know, Kelly, you know Tyan advice at 25 years old, what, what advice would you give a 25 year old Kelly.  Kelley Tyan: Probably just what we’re talking about. Just not look back. You, you will make mistakes, you will fail, but don’t stay there. Keep your eye on the prize ahead. Don’t compare yourself to other people, which I think when I was very young, I was always comparing, and ‘why is she better?’ What? Why does she have more? Focus on you in your strengths and what you can bring to this world and you will succeed.  Brett Gilliland: Love it. Who’s the most, uh, inspirational, um, or, uh, I can’t even speak, but who’s the most influential person in your life? Uh, and what lesson have you learned from that person?  Kelley Tyan: It was definitely my mom. She just was inspirational in every single way, shape and form. She taught me just excellence in being, um, more of a servant leader. My mom was very much, all about making an impact in people’s lives. And I truly cherish that. Cause I saw the way she never worried about, you know, a money exchange. It was all about just hearing people, hearing and listening and serving. And so that’s to me, is that’s everything to me.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome, awesome. Um, so I was gonna ask if you had to write a book, but a lot of my, uh, guests have written books, which is, which is amazing. So the, the question I normally ask, if you had to write a book tomorrow, what would you call it and why? Uh, but you’ve already done that. So you wrote the book, ‘Addicted to the Climb’. You explained a little bit, uh, about it earlier, but talk to me more about one, the title, why you did it, and what do you hope the readers get from it? Kelley Tyan: So, ‘Addicted to the Climb’ is really just empowering people to just keep on climbing in with faith as the foundation. Believing that you can, whether you believe in God or whatever, you have to have faith that you will and can keep going. So my book is 30 Personal Stories I wrote of just overcoming trauma to grief, um, being fired. All kinds of stories that I know many of us can relate to because I feel we all go through similar things in life. But it’s the way we respond to those situations. So my book gives examples, um, prayers, quotes, and just personal stories. If I can get through these things, you certainly can. I don’t have anything different than any of us. So, I believe that we all have the power inside us as long as we keep our eye on the prize and we just keep moving forward.  Brett Gilliland: Love it. Last question for you is, uh, I love asking this question, but how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind over your lifetime have actually blown up to the magnitude you put ’em in your mind to be. Kelley Tyan: Less than 0.5%. Yeah, I don’t, none. Because it’s funny that you’re saying that I, I was actually thinking about that this morning. When it comes to fear, fear is such a liar. It’s not true. It’s, it’s, it doesn’t even, it, it’s, it’s something that we put so much str, we’re so stressed out and fearful, yet, like you just said, 99.9 of the percent of the times, it doesn’t even happen. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Kelley Tyan: So, it’s a waste of time to worry and have fear the less it’s actually happening. I say put your effort somewhere else because fear is gripping. But fear, I had a friend write a book ‘Kick Fear in the Face’. And that’s what we really need to do physically. Like kick it in the face. Cause it’s, it’s, it’s a liar. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, false evidence is [00:39:00] appearing real, right? That’s what it stands for. And it’s funny because I, it’s, I’ve, I asked that question because for me early on that that was, especially starting a company and all those things, you have all these fears, right? And it’s like you can lay in bed at night and like, my God, they do appear real. Even though they’re not. Um, but it’s funny, you know, I, I, you’re my 317th interview and I’ve probably asked that question 295 times, right? And it, it’s one of those, I wish I had all 295 responses on video I could show on a, uh, highlight reel. Just one after another. Because what you did, you, you laughed, right? You kind of went away from the mic a little bit. It’s what we all do cuz it hits home. And, and for, again, for those people listening to this right now, you have a fear in your mind. And that fear is lying to you, like you said, and, and it’s how do we get that thing knocked off our shoulder and stop listening to that voice and know that 295 people or whatever the number is. It’s building that belief in me to say, stop doing this, Brett, because that fear I’m putting in my mind never blows up to the magnitude I’ve put it in my mind to be. And if it does, your outcome will be different anyway.  Kelley Tyan: Exactly. You have to just have a, a conversation with yourself that’s very strong. Just know that you are an overcomer no matter what. You’ve already been. I always tell my clients, can you tell me 10 things you’ve been through right now? Many of ’em are like, yeah, I can tell you 20. I say, well, think about that right now. You’ve already been through the hardest of times. Don’t let fear rip you. If you got through those things, you will get through whatever else is thrown at you and more. You just have to believe and, and take fear and like you said, brush it off your shoulder and move on. Brett Gilliland: So, where do our listeners get your book? I’m assuming anywhere. And then, uh, where do they get your book? Where do they find more about you and your podcast and everything else? Kelley Tyan: They can find me on [00:41:00] LinkedIn, for sure, Instagram and my book is, you Can, Amazon is the best and my podcast is they’re both called ‘Addicted To the Climb”. Brett Gilliland: ‘Addicted To the Climb’. Uh, we will put those in the show notes. In the notes below. Uh, Kelly Tyan, it’s been awesome having you on the ‘Circuit of Success’. Tons of notes, tons of takeaways. Appreciate your time and uh, Merry Christmas and happy holidays to your family.  Kelley Tyan: Thank you so much. You as well. God bless.  

Nick Cavuoto’s message is inspiring, energetic and actionable. His combined passion and decades of expertise for what is possible through inner alignment creates meaningful impact for all who hear it. True alignment is the pathway to greater impact, abundance, and fulfillment. When you’re aligned, you honor, acknowledge, and flow through your emotion, which is energy in motion. Maybe you’ve tried to “make it happen” either on your own or following the advice of others. But no matter what you do, something feels “off” the ease, flow, and results just aren’t there in your business, your team, or your life. Brett Gilliland Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland. Today I got Nick Kabuto with me. Nick, what’s up buddy? Nick Cavuoto How’s it going, man? It’s great to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Brett Gilliland Absolutely. You’re coming in from Nash- Vegas. I’m coming in from the St. Louis area here in O’ Fallon, Illinois. You’re a NewNash- Vegas guy in Nashville, Tennessee. Right? Nick Cavuoto That’s right. We spent a good amount of, uh, the last, you know, half a decade or so out in Denver, uh, originally from, uh, from New York. And, um, dude, it’s been a journey, you know, I had to go west to find myself. Becoming an entrepreneur seems to have that, you know, um, seems to have that effect on people where they have to really dig deep and go like, man, what is the bigger picture here? What do I want in life and what do I need to do about it? So. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto It’s incredible. Brett Gilliland Well, that’s awesome, man. Before we dive into all this stuff, um, you are a four time CEO and founder, a Fortune 500consultant, a private equity investor, a keynote speaker, and global business leader. Um, man, you’re just helping tons of people and I can’t wait to chat about, uh, all that. But before we get started, if you can just kind give us a backstory, man, what’s made Nick, the man you are today.And, uh, then we’ll, we’ll rock from there. Nick Cavuoto For sure, man. Well, you know, uh, to, to keep it brief and simple, uh, my dad was a drug dealer who found Jesus. Okay? So that’s my origination story, is that’s the stock that I’m coming from, which is actually pretty incredible because, you know, it talks about a story of transformation, of going in one direction, finding truth, and then going in a different direction. And that was my dad’s story of course. But, um, you know, coming into the world, uh, you know, I grew up sleeping under pews at you know, three years old, uh, because my dad ended up becoming a pastor and leading a congregation of people.And, uh, so my life started in, you know, very, um, uh, disruptive, encouraging, thought-provoking environments. Um, and I’ve seen public speakers since I was three years old. I’ve, you know, been a part of really epic movements since I was a young kid. And so my life has just surrounded the idea of transformation, of awakening and surrender. Of being on a journey of finding the highest and most true version of who we are and what our greatest contribution could be in the world. And, uh, for that, I’m incredibly thankful, man. So yeah, I’ve done a lot of really cool things in the business world. Um, but, you know, life’s a labyrinth, man. We, we come out the same door that we went in and I’m just finding myself now in a different position going like, I helped a lot of people uh, a lot of companies and it’s time for me to help a lot more people. Brett Gilliland Yeah. And so how, how did you get into that? Like what made you go from that role? Obviously, the what you just, uh, very transparently shared from drug dealer who found to your dad, who found Jesus and, and, but you don’t just wake up and consult with the people that you’re consulting with and having conferences and do those things. Kind of walk us through that journey as the young Nick, not that you’re not young now, but the young Nick. Uh, what, what were you doing back then on that grind on that journey? Nick Cavuoto Yeah, man. Well, you know, uh, let me, let me look at my, my story at 19. I fell outta college for the second time and uh, you know, I ended up going back home. I was in South Florida, you know. What I was up to. I mean, it’s a pretty easy story to kind of, you know, connect the dots, right? Fell outta college and you’re in South Florida. I mean, it’s pretty simple. So I went back home and I asked my dad, I was like, man, I need to come home. And, and, and my dad was like, you know, it’s kind of a prodigal son moment of where his arms are open. Why? Like, come on back, man. I got you. And I just said, dad, I don’t know what I need to do with my life, man. I don’t, I don’t know how to get it back on track. And he said, you need to serve, and I understood the concept growing up, you know, and basically a business that required volunteers, right? Uh, people being there, not because they’re getting paid, but because they wanted to be a part of something, they wanted to belong. And my dad taught me, you know, really the power of servant leadership. And so I showed up and I kept showing up. And I remember this dude, you know, real tall, skinny guy walks up to me, you know, at, at the church that, uh, my dad suggested I volunteered at by that time he was finished. And, um, he just says, Hey, your dad said you know a lot about technology. I could really use a hand if you’re open to it. And I was like, I’d love to. I still work with that guy now, 15 years later. Brett Gilliland Wow. Nick Cavuoto We still collaborate. He still films my events. I mean, it’s, it’s absolutely incredible. So, you know, I think that’s the power of service man, of showing up, doing the right thing, following, you know, the path of life and trusting the process. Man, I, I can’t even explain how many times I’ve had to rely on an inner-knowing trusting that God saw the picture more clear than I did. And for those of you who might have a different belief system, that’s okay. This is just my dialect. It’s like my accent, if you will. It’s just the way that I talk cause of the way I was raised. And um, at the end of the day, I just truly believe that you have to be in a place of where you can trust the greater process and uh, and lean into that. And, um, that’s where my help comes from, you know, and everything that I do, I have a deep reliance on knowing that something greater has my back. Brett Gilliland Yeah. And so when you’re 19 falling out of college and you’re going back home, I mean, how, how do you though. Yeah, I’m, I’m putting this visual out there, right? You’re, you’re in this hole. Maybe there’s a ladder sound like there’s a ladder, there’s at least a hand down right from dad that’s gonna pull you up. Um, but man, even on the days of dark days, right? What, what were you doing if I were back there following this guy around at whatever, 25 years old, what, what were you doing day in, day out to get where you’re at today? What was, what was that like? Nick Cavuoto Well, you know, at 19 I said, I’ll serve and I just helped. And then I got greater and greater responsibility, so I just show up. I was uploading podcasts. It was the first thing that I did. Once a week I’d go in and upload a podcast. Well, after you show up for six months, everyone’s like, who the heck is this guy? Right? Like he still showed up for free. And after that, then they said, Hey, you know, we have a, um, we have a location in, in our, in the downtown, in, in the downtown area in the city. And they were like, we need someone to help launch an initiative to feed the homeless. And I was like, I’m in. Like, let’s go. Let’s do it. I think that with, you know, if you truly want to be great in life and you wanna do great things, it requires a deep level of personal responsibility. And when the things come your way, I’ve learned in my life how to wait for the, invitation. How to let things come to me like a hunter in the woods. Like, I’m like, I’m gonna let this thing walk towards me. For me, it’s about being in the right place at the right time. And that’s really the trajectory of what I learned from that season because after that I ended up going into ministry. I volunteered for two years. I went from going, you know, for two hours a week to going to 40 hours a week, volunteering for zero. And I was working full-time at Verizon. It was the first like real job I ever had. And I got, you know, working there in the call center because I didn’t have a degree and I was kind of working it out. And ended up going to number two in the organization at that church, which we had 50 employees. I mean, I was managing an eight figure budget at 24. Um, you know, and I took that church from a thousand to 10,000 people every weekend. And that was on the back, of course, of a, of a lot of people who were given it their all. Um, I don’t take full credit for that whatsoever, but you had to have a lot of valor. You had to be a champion. You had to be in there going like, you know, have the courage do it. Scared, push through. I, I didn’t question my, you know, inabilities cause my dad always told us, he said, God will always make room for your gift. It’s about being accessible and available to the greater things that are, that are happening in your life. And so that’s what I did. Craig Rochelle’s a great principle. Better is an open hand than a closed fist. I kept my hands open and that’s, I think that’s where we become that circuit. The transmission of energy is when we can receive and we can give. And we can give and we can receive, yeah. That most people have a problem receiving, which is actually what cuts off the line from them being able to do their grace work. Brett Gilliland Wouldn’t you also think that that’s the abundance mentality there? I mean, hearing what your dad said to you, hearing what you just said, right. Open hands, give and receive, both those, but I think, man, what my experience has been, the, the, the, the abundant mentality wins. And this is obvious, right? I’m not, I’m not curing cancer here with this statement, but the scarcity mentality does not, but I think it’s hard for people that are, that have that mindset maybe of scarcity. What advice would you have for that person to say, you know what, man? Open your freaking heart. Open your mind. Believe big, believe in abundance. How do we go do that? Nick Cavuoto Yeah. You, you know, I just posted this on my Instagram today, but it’s absolutely true. I tell people all the time, they’re like, so Nick, what do you do? I’m like, here’s the bottom line. If you spend too much time with me, you’re gonna brainwash yourself into thinking that you’re capable of accomplishing anything. Okay? That’s the bottom line. And that’s cause that’s what happened with me. Right? Brett Gilliland Right. Nick Cavuoto That was my story of what my dad and others did for me. So I think at the end of the day, we have to really view this as this privilege of a lifetime to become truly who we are. Anytime that we’re in emotive contraction. You know, I look at contraction, I have four kids, now I look at it as a process of birthing something new. Now, Braxton Hicks are when you’re having contractions, but nothing’s actually happening. Right. It’s kind of like those practice ones. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto And I think that’s where a lot of people live. They’re too afraid to give birth to the thing they actually want in their life. So they just spend their lifetime of 20, 30, 40, 50, a hundred years in Braxton Hicks and getting ready to get ready. And I just think that’s an absolute tragedy. And so when people are not operating out of abundance, it actually has a lot more to do with their reliance or their belief system on what’s possible for them, for the people around them. I mean, talking about recessions and different things happening on the planet, it’s a recession of the mind. It’s a contraction of the mind. The markets follow where the conversation is going, and so I think at the end of the day, I just look at it very binary when it comes to abundance or, or an abundance mentality. The only way to do your greatest work, for those of you who are seeking success in your life, is to do what you love. That’s it. And to do what you love requires abundance. How lucky are we that we can do anything in the world and get paid for and make whatever we want doing it right? To me, that is the modus operandi for entrepreneurs. Brett Gilliland Yeah, that’s incredible. So when you, again, I’m just, I’m thinking here about 19 and then 25, and now you know, four time, when we say four times, CEO and founder, a Fortune 500consultant, a private equity investor, like, what are you doing now? Like, if, if somebody were able to follow you around the camera every day, what, what am I seeing are the no miss items? You know, you’re, you’re doing this regardless of what in the hell happens in your day. What is that? Nick Cavuoto Um, I mean, at the end of the day, it’s been a confidant for people, it’s, you know, catalyzing people. And that comes in the format of a lot of content production. So producing content, writing eBooks, writing books, um, hosting conferences, launching conferences. Um, you know, I just, I think that I want to be that cornerman for people who are up to something. You know, there’s an old saying that I have that you can’t do epic things with basic people. So I love being around people who are up to something and doing something big, and I know that I can continue to spur and cheer that on, cheer them on and, and push ’em forward. But the way that I went from, you know, Fortune 500 was, it was really being in the right place at the right time. When I left ministry, I got a job at paychecks. I ended up going back to school and graduated with a 3.8 GPA, which is incredible. Brett Gilliland Nice work. Nick Cavuoto Got a job at a Fortune 500 company. When I did that, man, that’s where, you know, things really started to turn. I just was in the right place at the right time. I believe there’s favor on my life. I believe that I’m constantly waiting for the invitation, allowing opportunity to hit me, and then I build a bunch of companies and then moved on from some of ’em. And you know, that’s just kind of how life has has happened. So now, I mean, my days are just spent finding people who are hungry, who want more. Um, who are in a place of trying to find abundance and alignment in their life. And so I’m leveraging really beautiful systems to help them find, you know, what it is, is that their next step is in life and.. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto And how to cheer them, champion them. Yeah. Brett Gilliland Well I think that, that, again, you said right place at the right time. You’ve said that twice now. And, and I think that is also that abundance versus scarcity is just being there, man, being in the game, I always say go play in traffic. Right. Sometimes you’re gonna get freaking smoked right by that car and sometimes it’s gonna be, you know, beautiful. Right? You’re gonna get, it’s like Frogger, right? You’re gonna get right across there. Nick Cavuoto Mm-hmm. Brett Gilliland But playing in traffic, things happen. And so I call it the God wink. You know, the, the God wink is when you happen to be in the right spot at the right time using air quotes. Um, cause I don’t believe anything happens by coincidence. Man, there, there’s a reason. Nick Cavuoto I agree. Brett Gilliland Either you made that thing happen. Or you were aware, you had a lot of awareness on where you were at to see that one thing to where now you say, yeah, it’s right place, right time, but a lot of people may have just missed that opportunity, don’t you think? Nick Cavuoto Absolutely, man. Absolutely. And that goes back to the concept of being the hunter. It’s like, why would you stand out in the woods for 5, 6, 7 hours if you weren’t gonna pay attention to the right opportunity that came towards you?Right. And that’s where I’ve learned that is it’s that patience.It’s, it’s that patience with anticipation. And I think that God fills in the blank, you know, because I look at nature and it’s like, well, how did these things get here, and how are they gonna find their way to me, it, it is, you know, some people would look at it as like, well, you know, if you find a good spot, you know, it’s like, well, then they just, you get lucky and they walk towards you. I’m like, no, this is not luck. This is studying and investigating and understanding and knowing and putting in the work and practicing the principles and punting the past and saying For the future. Being unbelievably present in the moment in order to receive what it is that I’m seeking. So I set my intentions everyday. I know exactly what I want the day to look like. Most people don’t do that. So when I’m like, I know exactly what I want personally, experientially giving and receiving, I know at the end of the day of who I want to help and who can help me. I know actually at the beginning of the day how to do it, how to prioritize it, how to get it done so that I can never ask myself the question of like, well, what, what’s my purpose? What should I be doing today? And I learned that from my mentor, David Meltzer, of just being unbelievably present by setting intentions, living an inspired life. And, um, that’s what changed the game for me, man. But dude, I, I lost a million dollars in two days when COVID hit. I mean, you talk about taking entrepreneur, you know, backhands to the face. Um, I, you know, built a $4 million company out of one of the four that, uh, my best friend from high school is helping me run. And he stole the whole thing out from underneath me. Brett Gilliland Oh. Nick Cavuoto Undersold all the clients. Stole the lead list, stole the IP, stole everything. You wanna talk about taking a punishing, beating of almost feeling like I’m a masochist, cause I’m like, man, I’ve just taken it over and over. But the principle is to get back up because there’s something greater. There’s someone out there. I remember when I was in ministry, I was always focusing on the person in the back of the room who was closest to the door, cause that’s a person who needs it the most. I don’t need the Amen Corner or the people up front. I need to try to find that one dude at the back of the room who’s gonna go commit suicide if he doesn’t make a change in his life today. That’s where I’m seeking to create change.That’s where I’m seeking to help people and some people just want to quit on their dream. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto They want to cash it in and just be like, I’m done. And I’m just like, there’s so much more for you. And if you’re in a season of transition, if you’re experiencing an exit in your life, I think thatI’m the best conversationalist to ask you. So what’s next? And that’s where I spend a lot of my time as well. Brett Gilliland So let’s, let’s spend some time on that. A million dollars, I think you said in 24 hours or 48 hours, uh, which is, is a kick, right in the shorts. And but what, what about for that person that’s listening, saying, yeah, man, but you, you don’t understand. You already have million and I, I’m making this up. I have no idea your financial situation. You know, you’ve already got money. Right. So it’s not, they discount it like, well, he’s different. Right. Or David Meltzer is different. And, and what do you say to that person, man? And, and how do you get to the point where, yeah, it did hurt. It freaking hurt a lot. But I’m going to get back up. Nick Cavuoto You know, when I was five years old, um, I nearly drowned in a pool and, uh, we were on vacation with our family and parents weren’t paying attention. Just a, I got four kids. I get it. That kind of stuff happens. Um, but at a very young age, I had to fight for my life. And, you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a quality that I’ve never had to train because it came, it like went embedded into my D N A. When you have to survive at that age and figure it out. I don’t necessarily know how to explain to someone how to get back up because it’s an automatic response for me. But here’s what I will say. Not everybody wants the same thing. So some people, they don’t want the same thing as me. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto Like I’m chasing a dream of building a foundation for my wife’s father who was killed when she was three, to help moms who who want to become entrepreneurs and don’t have a partner or their partner was killed or whatever happened, or kids who were fatherless. That’s what I want to teach entrepreneurship to. So my why is just so much bigger, and that’s me living my inspired life to go like, I need 50 million to do that. It’s just not like, just a basic thing, right? It’s like in order to create cosmic shifts, huge, huge waves in the world, like you’ve gotta be up to something. You’ve gotta make big asks. So for me, I just look at it like, well, we don’t want the same thing. If you don’t have the courage to get back up, then you’re gonna lose. There, there’s just no other way. Just think about it in a boxing ring. If someone gets hit with a haymaker and they can’t get back up from it, you just have to accept the L. And the L is not just a loss, it’s a life lesson for you to look at things differently and say, okay, let me reset my expectations. What do I want? You know what I realized was I was out of alignment. In the places where I’ve experienced the most amount of pain, I knew better in my knower, I knew better, and there are some experiences in life that were life lessons that I had to say thank you to later on. You know, there were things that hurt really bad, like losing my best friend over a business thing and just the whole thing that happened. You know, I don’t think I was deserving of that, but I think it was a life lesson that gives me the integrity to talk to other people about that situation when they’re in it today. So I had to learn how to say thank you to everything that came my way. So I think that it’s just like we, we can’t look at things so binary like that. Just, you know, good things that happen are good and bad. Things that happen are bad. I think we have to live an ultimate truth, honesty, and integrity, and know what we want, who we can help, and then how to make it happen and then just live in inspired life of being in our why. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto So, you know, I think at the end of the day, um, you’ll always know the size of the leader by the amount of arrows that he takes. I’ve just taken a lot because I know what I’m up to and I know what God has positioned and planned for my life. Um, I just hope I inspire somebody else to get back up cause I go like, well, I lost 900,000. It wasn’t as bad as that dude. Brett Gilliland Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. But how do you do that even, right. I lost, I, I asked a lot of how do you do that? But I, for me, you can see it here probably on my mic. The F greater than P.That’s, that’s me living in my, my vision and my mission is helping people achieve a future greater than their past. So we’re, we’re talking the same language, but that didn’t just come overnight. Right. That was, you know, I’ve been doing what I’ve been doing for 21 years now, and so for the last, whatever it’s been, seven or eight years, this has been my mission. I’m living in that mission. Right. Our firm, we get to live in that mission with our clients, but how do you find that man? How do you, how do you wake up and know I need 50 million for this deal, for your wife, for this foundation? I mean, what advice would you have for our listeners that are searching man, they’re soul searching for what that journey is. What that why is. Nick Cavuoto To listen more than they talk. You gotta be present. The only way to avoid, you know, disruption, uh, of your future and in order to not have, you know, regret and, and, uh, lack of forgiveness of your past is to be unbelievably present. To be inthe here and the now. That’s the only thing that we have, you know, um, I’ve heard it said, you know, that, uh, trying is failing. We’re not gonna try to raise $50 million to create a foundation for single moms and kids who are fatherless. We’re going to doit. There’s a confident assurance when you know that you can be audacious enough to name it in claimant, say what you want, and then watch the process of it happening. I think that’s just the big miss, my friend, is that most people, they don’t know what they want. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto That so they don’t have the boldness or the audacity to ask for it. The way I look at that is like sitting at a drive-through for three years. Could you like play that movie in your head of sitting at a drive-through and going like, I’ll have the um, oh man, what is it gonna be? Ah, and sitting there for three years, for a thousand days. But that’s how most people live their life, except for it’s not three years, it’s 30 years, it’s 40 years, it’s 50 years. And they spend their whole life questioning and lacking certainty on what it is that they want because they can’t just get over that edge to just name it it and flame it, and go like, this is what I want. Yeah, that’s so I have absolutely.. Right. I have absolutely zero problem asking God or the universe or whatever somebody believes. I don’t give a crap what you believe. The idea is that I have no problem naming, claiming, asking, requesting, aligning, you know, finding abundance, going after what I want, and not feeling any way about that except for absolutely exuberant and excited and omniscient. And I dare myself, maybe it’s 500 million instead of 50. Like how, how big can I push the vision? Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto Because it’s, it’s in that space that allows us to just, I think, aim higher so that we can take responsibility and do our greatest work. Brett Gilliland So, so walk through that. Let’s, let’s stay there for a minute. You talked about your, you’re not afraid to ask, right? So you’re asking God, you’re asking the universe. I know, and I’m in a Bible study and, and it, it’s really helped me. But it’s sometimes, you know, you can feel somewhat selfish, right? Of saying, you know, dear God, you know, give me this thing, right? I, I need this thing to happen professionally or personally or whatever. Um, how do you feel about that when you hear me say that? Nick Cavuoto Oh yeah. Um, well here’s what my thing is. It’s like, well, you know, in the Bible, like it talks about it and there’s a lot of other universal principles on this, but you don’t have it cause you’re not asking for it. It says, you know, seek first the kingdom ofGod and everything else will be added to you. You know, make your request known to me and I will fulfill them like it’s actually being told to us. Like, cause what good father would withhold from his children. Again, I have four. I, I would never withhold anything from my kids unless it’s not good for them. Brett Gilliland Right. Nick Cavuoto And sometimes when my daughter wants ice cream, before you know, dinner, I just don’t have the patience. I’m fine. I’m just like, whatever. That’s fine. Just go, just go ahead. And sometimes we have, that’s where we have to know, right? Because sometimes we can becken God for things or like keep naming it, claiming it, and declaring it. And sometimes we get something that maybe isn’t the best for us. I would, looking back in my life, it’s a great life lesson. I’m grateful I had it, but I would’ve never wanted to trade my best friend for a $4 million company, ever. Brett Gilliland Nope. Nick Cavuoto But it taught me a lot of really amazing things. But I just followed the path naturally of life and now I count it as a lesson and it’s been absolutely amazing of the people I get to bring healing to because of it. But like I don’t ever feel go, I don’t ever feel bad for making a bold request. Never. And again, that comes back to that principle of giving and receiving. Most people have an issue receiving. It’s not giving. Most people be, there’ll be a doormat, giving everything away until they have nothing. Because again, it brings into the nature of like the victim mentality that most people live in. But when we live in an abundance mindset, We actually can receive, not, not to give, but we receive simply because our hands are open. It’s a natural byproduct and consequence of being somebody who could be responsible to hold it. So it’s like weight too. It’s like how much can you hold? How much can you hold? Cause money likes to move, so it’s gotta be a current, it’s gotta go through you. It’s not like Donkey Kong gets all the bananas, then he hoards them. You’ve gotta have that great mindset to be able to give unconditionally to people who can never pay you back. And then also on the other hand, the ability to receive, to be the trusted resource. And that’s what I’m learning a lot in my life right now. Brett Gilliland So I’m gonna go two spots there on, on a couple things you said. But number one, I think that the abundance to receive, um, when you ask for help, I think also when your intentions and your motives are are right. Right. You know, the abundance of giving and receiving is you are going to be a good steward of that. Whether that’s money, whether that’s time, whether whatever it is, you’re, you’re gonna do the right thing. And I think that’s where for me is asking people where are their intentions and their motives, right? What, why do they want that thing? And if it’s for the wrong reason, you’re not gonna get it. Right. So you gotta get down into the nitty gritty man and figure that out. Nick Cavuoto Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, man. Yeah, it’s, you know, and it comes out in my message, right, because I’m like, Hey, I need to raise 50 million. Not to create the next fix and, you know, run off to The Bahamas. It’s because my wife’s father was murdered when she was three. And I, I’ve watched the struggle, I know the nightmares that she has at night. I know what her mother has had to deal with because she lost her fiance when she was 23 years old. Brett Gilliland Hmm. Nick Cavuoto I know it. I know it cause I’ve seen it and I’ve lived it. And so that’s the thing that sends, you know, shivers down my spine is the amount of conviction that comes with the request. And I think that that’s a, a, a teetering line on that like whole idea of integrity and invitation is also the opposite side, which is conviction. You know, some pe I’ve heard many people sayin my life, they’re, they’re like, you’re the best sales guy I’ve ever seen in my life. And the worst all at the same time. You don’t follow any process. You don’t do anything that you’re supposed to do, but you’ve done $200 million in sales online and it seems like whatever you do, just like people, they just enroll automatically. I’m like, it’s because I have conviction and most people don’t. Brett Gilliland Yep. Yep. So Nick Cavuoto … I know my gift, it’s to overcome objection with spiritual truth and with a high level of emotion, Brett Gilliland That’s solid man. Nick Cavuoto I’ve studied me. I know me. I know me. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Brett Gilliland But again, that’s important too, right there. I, you, I know me.I’ve studied me because, you know, I, I look at me, it’s this black journal right here, right? And it’s, it’s sitting down with that, and it’s asking myself questions. It’s, it’s taking the ink pen and, and writing down notes and turning off technology and getting to know yourself. Because the better you can be, then the better you can be at home, the better you can be at work. Uh, everywhere. I have four children as well, right? And so, uh, it, it’s freaking crazy, right? And, uh, I have four boys and you know, everything you pray for, we, we’ve got the, the energy, right? They, they don’t lack energy, but, um, but I have to slow down so I can speed up. And I think that’s, that’s my call is always people. The one thing, what could you do? Since July of 2005, I’ve been spending time in these journals, you know, and I think it’s critically important. So let’s go back to your best friend and where, where that one hit me was, uh, my business partner, Tim Hammett and I, we talk about this all the time at Visionary Wealth Advisors, is, is about your values connection, right? We’ve, we’ve seen where values connect and values don’t connect, and of course we wanna spend time in the values connection. Did you see as, I mean, looking back now, if you can peel that onion layer back. Were there flags maybe in the past with your best friend that didn’t seem right, that now you’re like, oh yeah, he just robbed me from a freaking 4 million business. Now I can see it? Nick Cavuoto Hmm. You know, that’s a really good question, man. Um, my short answer in even looking in, in retrospect is no. And I’ll tell you why. The last like lunch meeting that I had with him before this whole thing went haywire, we had to hire an operator for the company. I’m a visionary, uh, very much. Um, I need to be the tip of the spear. Like I just don’t thrive as being the stick. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto And that’s totally fine. I know my placement, I know what I’m, you know, I need someone else in asset management and people management and all that, but I just need to be way out in front. And, uh, he was, he was, uh, by trade and analyst. So he was really good at a lot of the client delivery aspects of like just doing the work that was required, the monotonous, consistent tasks. So, but he, the gap was that like I couldn’t reduce my percentage of visionary enough to be an operator. He couldn’t increase his percentage from being kind of like, Client delivery, you know, in that space to move into like running the actual company. Yeah. And so we had this gap in the center and we had to hire for it. And what I saw was the shadow of unworthiness come out of his life, which was by exposing the gap, even though I was very comfortable with it, because I know me, right? I’ve been in the personal development game for, you know, 25 years andI’m 35, if that gives anybody an idea of when I started this journey. So again, I know me and, and he wasn’t in that same position, and here was the kicker. This is what he said. He had such a hard problem with me hiring somebody in that position. They said, listen man, I want the title. And dude my eyes, I mean, they could have fallen outta my head. I said, wait, what? He’s like, I want the title, like I value the title, the position of running this company. And I said, dude, this is a serious problem because I value results only, like, of course, truth, honesty, integrity, all those things. There’s virtues that I live by, but in the, in the process of a marketing agency, I’m like, the only thing I value for the people that we serve, we do what we say we’re gonna do and we doit. That’s it. Brett Gilliland Yep. Nick Cavuoto Like, it’s the integrity of those things. And he didn’t, he wanted the, the C level title and that literally to the point of the fracture of our relationship was the thing that he wanted most. And to me, that’s just heartbreaking. And that’s why I, I said I never could have seen it coming because, you know, him and I had been friends since we were about, you know, eight years old. And I look back through the whole journey and I’m like, never was there any time of when he felt, or that I could point back to of where he felt so unworthy that he needed someone to give him a title in order for him to actually find significance. And I do believe in the concept of if you wanna be significant, you can go grab a gun and put it to someone’s head and you’ll be very significant. Brett Gilliland Mm-hmm. Nick Cavuoto You’ll also go to jail, but you’ll be very significant for that moment. And I don’t think that’s what it is. I think he wanted to belong. And I truly now in retrospect go like he wanted to be apart of something and he just didn’t want to lose his placement. It wasn’t position, it was his uniqueness and his unique value. He didn’t want that to be overlooked in the process of bringing someone else in. And that could have been a really easy conversation. But you know, things just get inflated and feelings get involved and you get to a place of where you go like, well, we gotta deal with what it’s, so then after that, the bitterness hit. And that’s what got really unfortunate, you know, stealing stuff, underselling all the clients. I was losing like 15 clients a week, you know, I mean, just, just from underselling them by half. My lawyer was like, we’ll, we’ll put this guy in jail. I mean, it’s, it’s to that point and I’m like, not gonna do that. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto Not gonna make this guy pay for a mistake for the rest of his life. Because he is also been there for me in a lot of seasons oflife of where I needed someone to be there. And I was just like,I’m not gonna kick him when he is at his weakest hour. And I took the brunt of that, but I know the payoff has already come and it’s gonna continue to come. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto So yeah, that’s integrity, man. I will. Brett Gilliland That is integrity, man. And uh, it’s a lot of people would not do that. Let, let’s spend some time on meditation. I had a aha moment today in my meditation this morning. I don’t, do you meditate? Nick Cavuoto Yeah, absolutely. Brett Gilliland Okay. Um, I had never heard this before, but the app, I was listening to my meditation this morning, talked about your brain being like a snow globe and, and it’s weird how things in your life happen again, those God wings. I remember last night we were putting out Christmas decorations in our home and you know, at the end of the night, now we gotta go on the light tour, or I called around the house and get all the trees and you know, all the wreaths, I mean everything off in the house, which is great. It’s beautiful. Um, but the snow globe was on, and I remember it’s got all the stuff going crazy inside the snow globe. And I didn’t think anything of it, but I remember it. I vividly remember it, picking it up last night. And then this morning meditating. Uh, the teacher in there talked about, um, your mind is like a snow globe, right? And meditation is that moment of calm, right? When you put the snow globe, you turn it off, it’s done spinning, whatever it. There’s calmness, there’s no snowflakes running around in the globe. Right? And I don’t know why that hit me like a ton of bricks, but it’s like, man, that, that’s a perfect reason cause so many people tell me, I just don’t get anything from meditation. I’m like, well you haven’t done it long enough. Like, well, I can’t think about anything else other than the 55 things in my mind. I’m like, well you haven’t done it long enough. Right. So when you hear me talk about the snow globe, what comes to mind for you? Nick Cavuoto Well, in the context of people’s inability to be present, I think is the thing that drives me, you know, uh, drives my thought. Because being present in the, in the process of meditation, of slowing down the slow globe, uh, you know, the, the snow globe and, and allowing things to just settle in is the number one reason of why we have I think a lot of the challenges that we have today. Being present is incredibly difficult. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto Everything’s vying for our attention. You know, I met with a Dallas monk in, uh, February of this year who changed my life. And what he, what he did was he called BS on a lot of things in my life, bad systems and broken stories. And one of the things that he said was, you know, Nick, in your life, the challenges that you’re facing will never stop until you stop having events in your life immediately followed by your emotion. Your emotion then determines your belief. It’s a three-step process. Events, then emotion, then beliefs. So now your beliefs are actually enslaved to your emotion of being a victim.Because most of the things that happened to us, we don’t go, yes, I did that we’re like. Brett Gilliland Right. Nick Cavuoto Oh yes, this is great, but I don’t deserve it and I’m probably gonna lose it. So, you know. Right. So, so here’s what he said. He said, Nick, events are gonna happen in your life. Those immediately need to follow a belief that you already hold, that you know is true. From that belief, now it can act as a filter to the emotion that you experience. That’s why gratitude is so important, because gratitude is the consistent place of being unbelievably present to say thank you. Think about it. How many people go through the drive-through every day will go back to that analogy who just grab their food at the window and just drive off. They’re gonna say, thank you. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto My mentor has taught me. He said, if you say thank you every morning and every night before you go to bed for 30 days and everybody did it, the whole world would be a different place. Yes, because gratitude is the most powerful thing in the world.But secondly, because people would be unbelievably present, they put their phones down for, so, you know, for all intents and purposes. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto They would lock eyes and be emotionally available. But the cycle or the carousel of despair is when we keep playing the BS stories, the broken stories, the bad systems, and we have to clear that out. And I watched this guy, I recorded the session. I watched this guy force me to be present cause I’d go back into the old story. The old story is the inability to, it’s shaking it up when you shake the snow globe. That’s the old story. I need to create chaos again cause I can’t be present. And I think one of the greatest antidotes to, to focusing on your ability to be present, meaning in that moment of meditation, in that moment of letting the dust or the snow settle in the snow globe. I think that moment is saying, what am I committed to? What am I committed to in this next season in my life? If I was not half-hearted and I was unbelievably committed, I could actually focus for two seconds and allow my imagination to drift into what’s possible. I didn’t come up with generating50 million for a foundation for my wife’s father on purpose. Idid it being present and allowing that information to come in. Brett Gilliland Hmm. Strong, strong, strong, my friend. Uh, talk to us about, um, your event. You’ve got an event coming up February 2nd and 3rd. Uh, Align Con. Nick Cavuoto Yes, my friend. Brett Gilliland Tell me. Nick Cavuoto Align con 2023. Man, it’s gonna be absolutely incredible, man. Um, you know, I deal with a lot of people who are experiencing some type of ending in their life and then wanting to start a new beginning. And, um, I think that true alignment, so this is whole, the whole concept is around alignment. I think true alignment is the path, the pathway for you to experience greater impact, greater abundance, and true fulfillment in your life. So it’s, it’s about being present. It’s about leaning in, it’s about figuring yourself out. You know, COVID was one of the greatest gifts we ever received. Again, here’s the, you know, the alternate perspective. It was an amazing gift cause it forced people to call BS on their own lives without someone else having to do it for them. Do I really like driving three hours every day to, to go to work? Do I really like going in the office when now I know I don’t need to. Do I really enjoy this bull crap job that does nothing for me?And I have been giving the last 15 years of my life into it. It forced people to, to, to focus on their external, internal, and philosophical problems, which allowed them to ask a deeper question. Guess what that question was? What do I want? I’m helping people align to their wants and I want to get them out of this place of trying to feel, feel or figure out, like they’ve gotta do it all on their own. And just following effortless ease, flow and finding results. I think no matter if it’s in their business, their team, or their life. By being the most powerful aligned version of themselves.And here’s the crazy thing, and I’ll give a little hint on this.When someone comes to me and says, Hey, I would love to figure out my purpose. I can sit down and figure it out with them in 10 minutes, sometimes quicker, but it never takes me more than that. And I have people do this all the time. I have no idea what my purpose is, or I’m gonna, I’ve lost, I’ve forgotten what it is. And I go like, okay, let’s sit and have a conversation. And there’s a modality of tools that I leverage to help them figure out what is their life pur- purpose, what are their greatest gifts? What is their greatest contribution in the world? What does that look like? And how can they leverage them in order to do their greatest work faster? And dude, I had people who are, you know, athletes, um, people who are entertainers, um, people who are entrepreneurs, people who are in leadership positions. They all have the same conversation. And so I’m here to be the seer, the guide, to be able to go unbelievably present, I don’t think time’s real, which is to my benefit because I think all we have is right now. So I don’t think about the past, I don’t think about the future. I think about right now, and I live an inspired life of going like, well, what do I want? And by doing that, I figured out how to master this for myself.And then now the amplification of that is truly what I know is to be my greatest contribution to the world, to live an inspired life and help other people do the same. I think the gravest question that just breaks my heart is, what am I here to do? I can cure that so fast. People will be like, dude, what kind of mojo? You gotta get in the vortex. I don’t know how to else to explain it. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Love it. So where do our listeners find more about AlignCon? Nick Cavuoto Align con, nick cavuto.com/align. You can also just look upAlign Con 2023 and, uh, likely find it there right on Google.And, um, yeah, would love to have, love to have you there.And, um, we can put a promo code in the show notes as well.Um.. Brett Gilliland Sweet. Nick Cavuoto I think that’d be great to do for your listeners. Brett Gilliland Yeah, we’ll definitely do that. We’ll definitely do. Speaking of that, uh, you, you mentioned earlier mentors, um, how, how important is it for you to have a mentor slash coach, uh, in your life. Nick Cavuoto Oh dude, it’s everything. Um, you know, mentors are people who are where you want to be, uh, that you can ask directions to and say, Hey, how’d you get there? Um, mentors also, they don’t want your money. They want your, um, they basically want your mindset. They want to be able to transform the, the version of you that you are right now. They want to be able to help you transform that and basically help you prosper. One of my mentors, I said to him, I said, dude, I, I don’t even know how I would ever repay you. And he said, oh, no dude. You don’t see how this is going, man. Like it’s not about what I’ve given to you. Do you understand what you’ve given to me? And I was like, I never thought about that. And he’s like, yeah, cuz that’s, that’s where your challenge is and your ability to receive is now you’re questioning your ability to give. He said you needed someone to show you the path, to light the path. I needed a companion. And we took walks together for 150 days during the pandemic, every single day at 5:00 AM. And this dude changed my life. I mean forever, forever, generational impact. Um, and you know, obviously I still talk to him every day. Um, so it’s just incredible. But yeah, mentors are, I think the cheat codes to life. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto It’s also, I think, the way to, you know, to take personal responsibility of what it is that you feel called and compelled to do. If you truly believe that you have a lot to accomplish here on earth, you won’t even question the power or accessibility to a mentor. Brett Gilliland Yeah, and I think too is like learning from ’em, right? I mean, if I can learn something from you that maybe took you 10 or 15years to figure out, and I’m just now starting down that journey, why the hell would I not want to know that information? Nick Cavuoto Totally. It comes back to the idea of receiving. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Nick Cavuoto Again, we don’t ask for mentors or we don’t ask the people that we really wanna be mentored by for help because we don’t feel, um, worthy of receiving the help that they’d have to give. My mentor tells me all the time, he says, my calendar’s your calendar, anywhere you want to speak, Nick, you just tell me. I’ll just, I’ll move out of the way so you can speak. And I’m like, there’s no way this guy’s for real. So talked to his team last week and I was like, I’d really love to do some speaking engagements and, and, uh, she was like, sounds good. We were kind of waiting for you to do that. It’s been six months. Mm-hmm. And I’m like, yeah, well, you know, whatever. So she gave me the, the process and the plan. I said, well, you know, David mentioned, he said, my calendar’s your calendar. Does he really like, mean? Like what’s the process? How can I be helpful and useful so that I know how to make the request? And she was like, no, he literally means it. So he just put a guy in three stages last week because David couldn’t do all the talks at the event, and there were 74,000people there. The guy never would’ve had access to go speak on those stages had he not just done what asked for help. And being like, Hey, I’d love to speak. Do you have anything available? It’s a simple freaking question, but again, it’s our worthiness.It’s our ability to receive. So I’m still practicing. It’s a daily thing, and I’m a heck of a lot better than I used to be. And also, of course, always in alignment, always in integrity with what we want on our of our lives. So.. Brett Gilliland It’s been a common theme here, man, thinking abundantly, right? If I ask for help, that means I’m an abundant thinker because I don’t have my ego. It’s saying, I’m not gonna ask this dude for help, man. I’ve got it all figured out. Right? Nick Cavuoto Hmm. You know, I’ll mention one last thing that I think will be interesting for people to think about. Most entrepreneurs that I encounter, they come to me because they’re like, I think this is what I want. And what I’ve realized is I need to help them heal their will. They’ve tried and they’ve been damaged by disappointment so many times, and they’ve tried and got up and then got punched in the face again, and they’ve tried and they’ve got up. They tried to be a good parent. They try to be a good entrepreneur. They try to do the finances right. They try to offer the products, right? They try to be great in their client relationships, and they’ve tried, and they’ve tried and they’ve tried again. Only to come, like the guy at the at the pool at Bethesda who almost touched the water for his miracle to happen, who almost got to the place of seeing his promise come to life, who almost got to his place of healing and curing the fracture of the past in order for them to step in their future. But someone else walked over them, stomped on their head in the process and said, sorry, come back and try again, and you can wait for another miracle. Those are the people that I help. I help people heal their will. So they can get back up again and they can give it another shot, but this time I’m going with them. They’re not walking the journey alone. And let me tell you, when I come outta left field and give whatever it is that you’re facing a haymaker to the face, I promise you that that thing will be defeated and gone so that we can move on to the future. But that’s a unique gifting that God gave me, and I’m more than excited to pull out the lightsaber and do God’s work. So if someone needs that type of confidant, that type of energy in their life. Then you better come to Align Con and uh, and get your butt there. Brett Gilliland I love it, man. So where do our listeners find more of Nick Cavuoto? Nick Cavuoto Yeah, man. Uh, at Nick Cavuto on social. Nick cavuto.com. And uh, yeah, just hit me up. Send me a message and, uh, I’d love to, love to just appreciate your thank you if that’s what comes my way. Brett Gilliland Awesome, man. We will put all this in the show notes. Dude, I had tons of takeaways, page and a half worth of notes here.Uh, what a great use of time and, uh, and appreciate you spending, uh, some time with us and giving your wisdom to our listeners. My pleasure, man. Thank you for the opportunity.I really appreciate it.

“Scott Stallings is an American professional golfer who plays on the PGA Tour. He quit all sports at the age of 12 except golf after going to the 1997 Masters and watching Tiger Woods dominate the field. In his 2022 season, he advanced to the TOUR Championship for the first time in his 12th season, finishing No. 29. He is involved in the Wounded Warrior project, and his biggest thrill in golf was teaching the sport to wounded veterans in the Army.” https://youtu.be/hl5yYFkb2fk Brett Gilliland Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland, and today I, you know, I’m pretty fired up when I’m on these things, but today as the golfer that I’m, I get to interview PGA guy Scott Stallings. What’s up, uh, PGA Guy? What’s up, Scott? How are you? Scott Stallings Good, man. How are you? Thank you for having me. Brett Gilliland Oh, thanks for being here. It’s, uh, it’s been, uh, it’s been a great year for Scott Stallings, hasn’t it? It’s been a pretty good year. Scott Stallings Yeah. And I would, to your listeners, uh, they need to understand your persistence and patience, uh, with my schedule and, uh.. You know, I, I was not trying to be elusive by any means, but my schedule is definitely, uh, very unique in my, I try to put all these things in, you know, one kind of timeframe. So appreciate you bearing with me and.. Brett Gilliland Absolutely. Scott Stallings To anyone, to anyone that listens. Like he’s definitely putting in the effort to try to get people on here. So, and I can definitely app-, I can definitely appreciate that. Brett Gilliland Yeah, absolutely. I, I call it pleasantly persistent. I’ve done that for 21 years, you know, building a business and, uh, spending two decades of, uh, you know, early on, especially man, when you’re calling people, you gotta stay pleasantly persistent in life, don’t you? I think that American flag behind you says effort and attitude. So you don’t have the right attitude. You don’t put in the effort. And whether you’re on the PGA tour, you’re in wealth management, you’re making bourbon, whatever it is, uh, which we’ll talk about, you gotta put in the effort. I appreciate it, man. I appreciate you staying with us, but if you could just, you know, for our listeners, give us a little lay of the land, what, what Scott Stallings is about. What’s made you the man you are today? Scott Stallings Well, a lot of things have made me who I am today. Uh, probably, uh, my wife, my kids. Um, I’ve wifed Jennifer, we just celebrated our 15th year wedding. Yeah, that’s right, 15th uh, anniversary. Um, I have a, uh, six-year-old daughter, Millie and a nine year old son, Finn. Um, so, you know, as a, as a husband and a father kind of gives perspective on, you know, kind of keeping you grounded and, um, I, I have one of the best stories I have from, I mean, I just finished, I play on the P G A tour. I know you’re just mentioned that, but I just had the best season of my career and one of my favorite stories of the, of the season is I played at the tour championship and my son came and he decided he was gonna watch every day, which is super weird for him. He’s like a nine hole kid, and like, I’m gonna go have some snacks. I’m outta here. Like, and so for whatever reason, he watched and I shot, I shot three over one day. I shot 73. And it was like real sketchy. Like it sh-, it could have easily been 80, but I mean, it was just kind of everywhere. Brett Gilliland One of those days. Scott Stallings And, and we had one of these pictures, we had a buddy of ours that does some social media and pictures for us. I like Finn, comes and gives me a hug, and it looks like this super, super sweet moment between a father and a son. And he said, you played so bad today. Brett Gilliland . . That’s awesome. You’re ready to snap your driver in half and he’s talking about how bad you’re playing. Scott Stallings Yeah. Nothing like a nine year old perspective to keep you grounded and understanding that, you know. Well, you know, while I am playing in one of the hardest tournaments in the world to qualify for and the fact that, well, there’s only 29 of us, and just kind of how we start, but, uh, a nice perspective to kind of understand that, you know, hey, I’m still dad. Uh, you know, and, you know, kind of what I do on the grass isn’t necessarily define me as soon as I walk out, but I was definitely one of my favorite stories from the season. Brett Gilliland That’s great. That’s great. Can you, I mean, I’m gonna dive in on some questions, just stuff that, you know, if I ever have an opportunity to talk to somebody like you, I just, I find that the, what I would call me, the, the pinch me moments, right? That you, you grow up. You were a, you know, Tennessee Tech, we talked about that before we started recording. You know, I played at Eastern, you played at Tennessee Tech, same conference. Uh, obviously your outcome was a little different than mine on the golf. And, uh, but that’s okay. But anyway, we, you know, just those pinch me moments, man, when I get to go play a nice golf course. But you’re doing that, you know, every week that you choose to play on tour. My question is that drive in down Magnolia Lane, man, for those golfers that know what I’m talking about, that masters, you make that turn in there, can you tell me what that’s like. Scott Stallings I mean, it’s definitely very surreal. Um, I had an opportunity to play, I graduated Tech in ’07 and I had an opportunity to go play in 2009, and I turned it down and everyone’s like, I, you know, you’re big time in Augusta. Like, no, like I think as a professional golfer, like that’s something that’s earned and not something that’s ever taken for granted. And who, who knew? I mean, I, I, I never knew if I was ever gonna have a chance to go and I ended up having a chance to go to the tournament, not play at the, the course, but you know, just kind of being there and kind of, I remember taking pictures of the golf course and, and kind of just in my mind, just imagine like watching guys prepare and different things like that. And so 2011, I win my rookie year and I have an opportunity to go and Tennessee’s unique in the fact of like the starter on number one, toby Wilt is, is a, lives in Nashville and so they do a pretty cool, uh, trip for first time Nashville’s participants where they bring you and they give you a chance to like, I mean the whole experience. You stay overnight, you do everything and, and just sort of get you comfortable with just everything that is Augusta National. And you know, you earn the opportunity to play and participate in the tournament, but also, you know, if you don’t go and do all that other stuff, you’re, it’s hard to do both at the same time. Enjoy the chorus, enjoy the tournament, but then you’re trying to play and prepare too. So it’s kind of hard to do both at one time. So they kind of do something to kind of help you get through that, which is amazing. And I remember the first time we got and got there at night, had dinner. Uh, kind of did our thing and then we were gonna play first thing in the morning. And if, if people want to, you talk about your pinch me moment, one of the hardest prayers I’ve ever said in my entire life was in the back of the clubhouse the next day. And it was like a three hour frost delay. So you’re finally getting a chance to play, you know, get a, we’re gonna be there for two days. And I walk out and I’mlike we’re not playing today. I mean, like, you could just see the frost, like an inch thick and like, man, what’s gonna happen? So thankfully, you know, the frost burned off. We ended up having a beautiful day. But at the time, uh, you know, they, they were sending just cuz there’s so many people, they were sending people off one in 10. Uh, which is kind of rare there, but I was, I wanted to play from number one all the way to 18 and kind of just get it over with. And as far as like my first round and then I was gonna go to work. Lauren Roberts, uh, was my playing host, you know, kind of show you around as far as, hey, you need to pay attention to this, which is incredible cuz I’ve had the chance to go and now a couple times with some different guys on their first time. More just man, enjoy the course for the first time. Don’t think about playing the tournament. Just think about all you did to kinda get in in the opportunity that what it took for you to get to this moment. And then it’s like, all right, then we can kind of go to work and start thinking about all the different, all the other stuff that kinda goes into it. But Lauren was with me, we get ready to hit and then there was this voice that was pretty recognizable that was behind me. Um, so this is December of 2011. And this guy said, son, here, it’s your first time. Let’s see what you have. And it was Arne. Brett Gilliland Oh, no way. Scott Stallings And I mean it was, there was four dudes on a tee box, me, Lauren Roberts, Arne, and this random person who I have no idea who it was cuz all I saw was him. And like I always joke that with a lot of guys, especially when they start struggling and stuff, the voices got real loud, real quick. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings And the world started going fast. But I hit a good drive and um, uh, ended up having an opportunity to spend some time with him that night. Uh, he kind of held court and like the, you know, kind of up above and the top of the clubhouse that night before. Had a few drinks with him, got to hear some really, really funny stories. Um, and then, uh, then showing around playing April, playing the tournament. I go and Toby, who was the starter, he said, you’re more nervous in December or April. I was like way more nervous in December. I said, I’m used.. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Guess Arne. Scott Stallings Yeah. I mean, you’re standing four feet from Arne and there’s no one else. I mean, like, I’m sure he could hear every thought that was in my head. What I was thinking. So I mean the tournament, I mean there’s pressure and everything, but that’s a little bit more of what we’re used to. Um, you know, sort of the, the openness is something that is, we’re something that we’re not used to. So, yeah. You know, but that was a long story for a short question, but I don’t shy away from, and, you know, any opportunity to get a chance to go to Magnolia Lane. Pretty incredible. I had a chance, my partner at Pebble Beach is a member. Um, and another good friend of mine from Memphis is a member and had a chance to take a couple of my friends. Um, the last, you know, probably six weeks or so, I took my caddy and one of my best friends from home and uh, man, we had a probably one of the coolest trips I’ve ever been on my caddies, caddied in six masters that he is ever played, so.. Brett Gilliland Oh my gosh. Scott Stallings And he, he played the back tees the first round. I mean, he’s a good, probably, you know, four or five handicapper, you know, doesn’t play much. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings And we got on some of those back tees and he said, man, I like these holes way better when you’re playing. Brett Gilliland That’s awesome. That is incredible. Yeah, I’ve got a nice little bet. Won’t talk about the dollar amount, but it’s a, uh, a hefty bet with my best friend since third grade Derek, on who can get on Augusta National first. Whoever does it has to pay the other guy some cash. So that’s what we’re working for. But, um, and so let’s talk more about them. So do you have those moments or, or when you’re a competitor, man, this is what you do for, for a living, right? This is your day job. Do you have that moment when you’re walking down the 18th hole and you’re like, holy smokes, name the course, right? AugustaNational, Pebble, wherever it’s at. Like, I’m doing this for a living. Scott Stallings Hmm. I’ve had some moments on the good side and the bad side of that. I remember, like I, I get my card in 2010 and then turned around and you know, this is when the season started in January. So basically you get your card in December. I got an Orange County National and then turn around and I’m a rookie at Sony and like I played the practice round, you know, I started off number 10 and I told my caddy like, man, number 10, it’s Sony. Like if the wind’s down at all, like, I mean, you drive the green. Brett Gilliland Hmm. Scott Stallings And I mean it, it’s honestly, not that like tight of an area to hit. Yeah. Um, and then we get up there and it’s like down off the right, like couldn’t it be any more perfect just to ship a driver up there on the green? And I got over it. I got that driver in my hand, I’m ready to go. And this is the first shot ever on tour. And the starter’s like, and now playing his first ever professional event on the PGA tour, he announces my name and I’m like, oh no. And I, and then as much confidence as I had going into hitting the shot is as little as I had once he said that, cuz the lights got bright and the voices got loud. I ended up hitting seven iron off the tee. And I mean, to go from driving the green to seven iron and I hit seven iron off the, off the tee, I hit a wedge to like 10 feet and I made birdie. So I made birdie. But still, like, everyone’s like, oh, that’s sweet, man. You made birdie your first ever haul tour. It’s like, man, I, I could not have wished out anymore than I already did. Brett Gilliland So my arms are like jello standing up there trying to hit. Scott Stallings And I mean, man, I’m, I’m like thinking I almost need to hit three wood. I’m so amped like, uh, you know, I might hit this thing 50 yards over the green. I’m so pumped up and I ended up hitting a seven iron, like a chunk pull down the left side of the fairway. And, uh, I mean, but that’s stuff like that you’ll never forget. And yeah, you know, I had a really rough start to my rookie year. I missed my first five cuts and then almost made the tour championship, ended up finishing like 40th. So kind of a, a full range of emotion. Kinda everything that goes into it. There’s some really unique, everyone remembers their first time playing with Tiger. You know, the first time, you know, kind of being an event that he was a part of. Winning tournaments, different things like that. But, but having a chance to, you know, over, this is my 13th season on the PGA tour and I’ve had a very, very fortunate to have what I consider the best job in the world. And, you know, I don’t necessarily take any day for granted. You know, I had some parts of my life where, you know, definitely it was some, the water’s got pretty muddy and didn’t really know what was what. And so I feel very fortunate to have some people come alongside me and, you know, push me in the right direction, kind of help me, you know, kind of understand what a healthy lifestyle looks like, and do a little bit better job of taking care of myself and all the different things so I can, you know, pursue a career for a long time and, and be the husband and father that my kids deserve. And my wife deserves, and, and to try to be a good steward of, of an opportunity that the game has, has given me. And I try to do whatever I possibly can to, to leave it better than I found it, and to use the opportunities that it provides to, you know, help create different environments and better environments for those kind of around me. Brett Gilliland Yeah. So let’s, let’s, uh, let’s spend some more time on that. I mean, you went from a guy, um, you know what I had in my notes here for my research, going from 252, 252 pounds down to like, what, 190, 195. I mean, what was that? Knock on the, knock on the shoulder, if you will, or that, Hey, man, let’s, let’s get your attention, because it’s hard to go from where you were to where you’re at now, right? They call you one of the best shaped guys on tour. How did, how did you.. Scott Stallings I wasn’t, I, I, I wasn’t in shape to now sort of in shape. That’s what I tell everybody. Yeah. Um, man, it was, you know, sort of a combination of just as long as, as long as I played good, I could do, excuse me, whatever I wanted. You know, there was not really, and it wasn’t like, man, I was like drinking, partying, whatever. It wasn’t anything like that. It was just, I was, there was no plan. It was, I kind of ate what I, I traveled like, man, I, I got a good buddy of mine, uh, that has a sand. He is like, man, I rode all the rides. Like, I, if there, if there was a cool place to eat, if there was breakfast, lunch, dinner, you know, whatever. I mean, there was no habit in there that gave you any indication that I was a professional athlete. And, you know, people will kind of attribute that a bunch of different ways. But truly, man, I like my diet, my sleep, you know, my training, that was zero. Uh, you know, all those things, you know, were just, I was sort of like a ticking time bomb as far as just a kind of recipe for disaster. And unfortunately, like I was the direct recipient of it, it was no one’s fault but my own. Um, you know, thankfully I had some people come around me. I was about 30 years old and I just was tired of feeling like crap and started asking some questions. And then, you know, everyone always says, man, you remember that? Anybody that’s ever trained, anyone that’s ever tried to make that improvement in their life, when they go and it’s like, all right, I’m gonna do something. I got one of my closest friends, he just got some health insurance, uh, redone. He said, man, I saw, uh, I saw a number on the scale I hadn’t seen. They gave me a few months to kind of get it back together, and then I can reapply. And he comes and he’s like gung-ho, like, man, he’s ready to run through a brick wall. And we give him this 20 minute workout and it literally just put him on the ground. And it was nothing like, nothing to where was that first moment? Like, you’re gonna get worse before you get better. I mean, there was getting worse and then there was what I did, which was literally having the wheels fall off. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings But I, I needed to have that, I needed to understand that, you know, I was my fault as far as how I got there. And, you know, this is it. Like, I don’t know if what you guys can see, but this is my body. This is all I get, and I need to be a good steward to that and, and take care of the things that it provides and, you know, put myself in a little bit better spot where it is at least a conscious effort to try to improve myself mentally, physically, you know, whatever that is each and every day to try to be better than I was the day before. And, I didn’t do it alone. I had a bunch of incredible people, way smarter than me, kind of helped push me in that right direction and it kind of helped me to get to where I am today. I never set out to do the fitness thing ever, ever. Brett Gilliland So did they, did they come to you and like somebody you know and trust and respect and say, Hey dude, man, to have a long term success, you gotta, you gotta. Change this direction? Or was it more internally like you’re sitting there and you know, you’re like, crap man, I, I need to change what I’m doing here. And then you find.. Scott Stallings A little bit more like that. And I had a really good guy, my trainer PT, Adam Curley, he, we worked together for a while and, you know, he sort of, kind of helped put me back together when I was coming back off the road. Um, And you know, kind of had a transition point in his life where he had an opportunity to go and travel with us, you know, on the PGA tour. And we always joked that when we first started working together, like his goal is to try to get me to go to the gym. Now it’s like, do you wanna practice today? Do like, alright you your workout’s 45 minutes, or you know, now it’s like the opposite. So he is like tampering. He said, man, I’ve been on both ends of the spectrum and you know, now we’ve kind of found like a good middle ground, so.. Brett Gilliland Well that’s good. That’s good. So talk about that, about like, what is that fitness plan for you? Obviously when you’re traveling, I’m assuming when you’re on tour in the week, you’re, you’re still doing some things, but the harder workouts are done at home. So what does that look like for you? In- including, you know, sleep, uh, recovery. I think you wear a whoop bracelet. I wear one of those too. Those things are phenomenal information. Um, and, and so what’s that like for you that, that accountability, sleep recovery, all that? Scott Stallings Yeah, I tell people a lot. It’s not a matter if and when, it’s a matter of what time of day and that’s, that is applicable to everything. And, uh, like just cuz you can doesn’t mean you should. And there’s like, I got a lot of like these random one-liner zingers that just sort of stick with me. My one for 23 is, I don’t want to deal with problems that I inherited. I want to deal with problems that I created and, you know, people can, like, there’s pro-, like all problems aren’t bad things. Like I was telling you about my travel, uh, earlier, like that travel problem that I have right now, it’s not really a problem. It’s a great thing. It’s something I work very hard to have the opportunity, but still, like, it’s still travel. It’s, you know, a long way from home and you know, kind of all the other different things that kind of go along with it. But just managing it and kind of understanding, you know, and try to put yourself in situations where you at least have your hand on a little bit of everything. And you know, try to do your best to not be blind, decided by certain situations that you had nothing to do with. And that’s applicable for everything. That’s life, family, relationships, business, golf, all sorts of things. And so that was kind of my goal for 23. You know, if it kind of stays outside that parameter, I really don’t want have much to do with it. And, you know, help me be a little more focused on the things that I, you know, with, with my family, with my life, with my career, and kinda all those different things. So, yeah. Brett Gilliland So that leads me to Mike Riley, uh, buddy of mine, Mike. He, uh, I asked some guys some questions and he said, well, how do you set your expectations for the year? And, and so let’s talk about that. But before we go into that great question. I wrote down, I don’t wanna deal with problems I inherited. I wanna deal with problems I created. That is phenomenal. So how did you come up with that? What’s that thinking? And then to Mikey’s point is how do you set those expectations for the year? Scott Stallings Well, that came out of a conversation with, uh, one of my really close buddies. Um, and we were talking about, we had a friend of ours, uh, get audited. And we somehow just a very long conversation about all the new IRS and I could care less about talking about all that, but just like, man, like, you know, professional athletes are just, you know, our pri- prime target. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings And especially people that are independent contractors and you know, basically our entire life’s a write off in some way, shape or form. And, and I was like, man, I am, I am not getting, I am not dealing with an IRS person over something I had nothing to do with, and it just sort of manifested out of that, and I just didn’t ever thought about it again. And the more and more I just found myself started. You know, different things and, and you know, I found myself being a part of conversations, uh, you know, on tour, you know, you bring up Liv, you bring up all these different things. Like, man, I have nothing to do with that. I have literally nothing to do with that, uh, you know, sort of my thoughts on it or one thing. But, you know, at the end of the day that. I, that doesn’t mean anything, so I’m not really going to mess around with it. And it sort of just found to be more and more applicable and it just came to, I want to do, I wanna deal with problems that deal with me and not deal with anything like, you know, outside of what I’m doing on a day-today basis between my wife, you know, my family and my career, and kind of all those things are intertwined. That’s kind of how it started. And so now I figured out a way to make that applicable to everything. Brett Gilliland It’s a great quote, man. It really is. And so how do you, what’s that look like for you? Do you sit down in November, December, maybe now, whatever the timeframe is. And do you, I, I mean obviously you got a plan for next year. You gotta know when your plan and when the tournaments are and stuff. But do you have, like, are you a goal setter, a goal planner? And if so, how do you, how do you walk through that process? Scott Stallings Uh, yes and no. Um, a little bit more of like a mindset, and that’s kind of it. Like I, you know, like Aura will pick a thought or this and that, like 2022, uh, we called it, uh, the, the word was variance. And my stats analytics guy, Hunter Stewart, came to me in Napa in September of that would be ’21, kind of transferring, you know, kind of how the fall season goes into the regular season. And he said, you need to create as much variance as you possibly can in your game. He said, you know, you’re basically, you’re, you’re stagnant. And he said, you’re a guy that’s gonna gain 2, 3, 4 shots a week. He said, you’re just getting your head beat in. He said, I’d rather you lose 10, gain 15 and net five over the course of the week where you’re gonna miss a cut by 12 and almost win. He said, that’s the guy that’s gonna make through a championship. He said, you need to become more like that guy. And so that was kind of the idea. So I was with him last week, uh, in Carterville with my coach, uh, Scott Hamilton and we were just kind of talking a little bit about it and before you started recording, you know, have a couple different areas to improve as far as golf wise. Um, but the same thing, like, you know, take a little bit more ownership of, of some of the areas that need a, uh, improve upon. But it’s not necessarily like, all right, I wanna win. I wanna make tour championship. I wanna have an opportunity to make, uh, a cup team. Like, if you’re on the PGA tour, those are not your goals. You’re doing the wrong thing. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings Like, so I think that stuff kind of goes without saying, but it’s like little intangible stuff. Like I went, uh, the, the previous year I wa in the, you know, short game area, I was losing strokes. Uh, very, very minuscule. But over the amount of time of volume of rounds that we play, I was losing strokes from basically like a quarter of a shot. It ended up being three quarters of a shot, a tournament from inside 30 yards, and transfer a year past By just changing a little bit of game planning, a little bit of strategy, and a little bit of practice. I ended up gaining two and a quarter, three shot improvement, and all I did was work on one area. So three shots over the course of 31 events is a lot. Brett Gilliland Well, and you look at even the money, right? I mean the, from the number one player in the world to the number hundred player in the world, you’re, you’re talking, you know, a stroke or two, right? I mean, that’s.. Scott Stallings Mm-hmm. Brett Gilliland There’s not much difference. And that’s what people don’t think about is the difference in those, in those golfers and what it means to your family, you know, financially. So it’s a big deal. And before we started recording, you showed me you’re a TrackMan and all that stuff. And you were getting your, your variances, I assuming, dialed in to where you would talk about, you know, this sandwich game. So walk our listeners through that. What, what does that look like for you? How are you dialing in these wedges and what are you working on there? Scott Stallings A little bit of, it’s sort of a, like a practice goal of, you know, like this. I don’t know if this is technically a golf podcast or whatever, but if you have some golfers on there, I’ve got a very unique delivery in the fact that I don’t have a very big back swing, but I can hit the ball pretty far. You know, a little bit in the sense of like, You know, I have really long arms and sort of a relatively, you know, shorter frame, you know, relatively the length of my arms. So it looks like I don’t take the club back very far, but when you deal with off speed shots and knock and, you know, sort of like not full. It’s a very, very small window in regards to like what’s full and what’s like half. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings Cause my back swing’s basically almost half as it is. So trying to develop a little bit better plan for like off speed shots like Pebble Beach, you know, not a lot of spin, you know, kind of getting ready, a lot of wind at Kapalua and kind of just developing a, like a little bit more of a game plan in a, in a, a template as far as you know how far certain clubs can go based off of, you know, sort of swing speed and a little bit of just, it’s not necessarily like I think on the course like, alright, I’m gonna swing at 80 miles an hour. But the more repetition and everything you go, it’s like, alright, I know what that feels like and I know how to fit these shots into these certain windows as I have, you know, kind of based off of there. It’s kind of a different way to practice cause I don’t really have enough of a backswing in my full swing to sort of create what they call like a clock method. Um, cuz basically my backswing stops at about nine o’clock as it’s on a full one. So, um, just different things like that and, you know, kind of make, you know, figuring out ways to practice where, you know, be a little bit more creative. And I’m not a range guy. I don’t like hitting balls, but I can sit there and kind of mess around on a TrackMan and, you know, kind of find little nuance things here and there as far as you know, maybe kind of pick up, you know, a little bit of more consistency in certain areas and, you know, kinda work around from there. Brett Gilliland So what advice, if any, maybe cuz you’re, you’re so darn good at golf, you probably don’t understand what the, the average Joes like myself and even higher handicaps, what we deal with. But what, what’s one thing you would tell us that we need to probably work on most? Uh, knowing we don’t have a lot of time to practice and all that stuff. Scott Stallings Work on your chipping setup because most people, they get the face right and the feet left to try to get the loft going on there. But really, if you look at the best players in the world, we put most, most of the best players in the world, when they come to chipping and pitching the ball, they go square to shut. Which means at least, so imagine like if you have your feet and your club face, like at some point they’re going away from each other. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings You’re trying to make the ball go straight. So you’re dealing with a lot of timing. And you’re dealing with a lot of slippage, like the ball kind of slides up the face, you know? So having a consistent, I got a really good buddy of mine, uh, a New England guy, and he’s like, man, I, you know, I, I finally kind of get my game into a spot. Then it gets cold and I kind of lose, like, gimme something I need to work on. So I just gave him some simple like chipping setup advice. He’s like, man, if you can learn to play from a square setup, And make where the ball contacts first. Especially people that deal with like winter golf and you know, coming out of like snow and everything when you go back and play, I mean, especially where you are, you deal with really cold weather, go back, snow, ice, all the stuff that kind of goes in and then you get that like nasty mush and ball first is important. Kind of all the stuff that kind of goes along with it and, and everything. And, um, You know, that would be the thing that I would work on. And then understand the, you know, play more break. Those are two simple things that I would kinda from there. Brett Gilliland Yeah. It’s funny you say that because on chipping, I would consider myself a pretty good chipper, but I, I’m, I do have my feet open and my club more at the target, right? So if I’m, I’m open here, I’m going right there at the target. That’s how I’ve chipped my whole life. Scott Stallings yeah. But, but if people have like the Flagstick here, you know, face here, feet there. Like at some point it becomes luck. Brett Gilliland Oh, absolutely. Scott Stallings If people operate off a square club and they manipulate their setup kind around there, then that’s kind a, a good place to go from there. Brett Gilliland You’re going, right? Your feet are aiming at the target. And your club head is, you’re, you’re like this or would I hear you? You’re blocking that. Scott Stallings Yeah, yeah. No, it’s, it’s body and, and feet shut to the target right? And face is at the target and kinda work off of, and kinda work off of that. So where you can kind keep Loft and present Loft as much as you possibly can. You watch those like old like semi-boss videos and like peak in the bunker, they get shut and drop the hands where the club kinda stay and they can keep loft on it. So just kinda a different way to kinda think about it. Brett Gilliland Like, well, I know I’m doing the offseason, changing my pitching game. Um, back to mindset, man, on, on days that maybe especially early on in your transition, um, to where you’re at today. How, what was the mindset preparation to get you to the point where even on days you didn’t wanna do it, you showed up? Scott Stallings Uh, I mean, nothing, you know, worth having came easy. And you know, I’m not sitting here trying to just bang you with quotes all day. But I mean, at some point, like at some point, like you gotta take a look at the fact of like, man, truly wanna aspire to be one of the best players in the world. Like, you know, no one’s gonna give it to me. Like, I could think of a million things I would’ve rather be doing today than running through this wedge test that I’m about to do when we’re done. But I know that at the end of the day, like. It’s gonna help propel me and do the thing, like, I’m gonna wish that I did it instead of, you know, coming back, you know, and being, and regretting that. You know, I’d rather feel the, that way, be, be proud and understand the opportunity that I, I took the time and effort to try to help, you know, me get better, whatever that is. Instead of being in a situation where I was like, I should have done, I should have worked a little bit harder. I should have done this. I should have done that. Like, I don’t operate in the past, I don’t operate in the should could have, but I do op, kinda have that in my, in the front of my mind while the, while everything has sort of taken place. Brett Gilliland Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It makes me think of a quote, I just pulled it out here, that Trevor Moawad unfortunately passed away, but the author of it Takes What It Takes. If you’re a reader, read that book. It was phenomenal. But, uh, he said, average people become average by doing average shit. Average is a choice. Greatness is a choice. There is no magic, only decisions. And I’ve got that written down in this journal I work because I just, I absolutely love it. Right. It is a choice. The power of choice is huge, isn’t it? Scott Stallings Absolutely, and I think people like the, I helped the Tennessee golf team here in, in Knoxville, where I live, and it’s funny, just the mindset as far as. You know, they had a coaching transition a few years ago and just the different things and you know. One day I was just kind of over this kid just kind of peppering me with questions and you know, sort of just like a little bit like, you know, smart ass, you know, freshman whatever. And a kid that I’ve known for a long time and I was like, man, at some point you’re gonna understand that I’m truly trying to aspire to be one of the best players in the world and you’re nonsense questions are doing me no good. So yes, I am gonna train today and I am gonna do something to work on my game. So that being a prerequisite, if you have any other questions that are different than that. Please go ahead. I’ll be happy to answer it, but if you’re asking me did I work out just for the sense of like wasting air, you’re wasting both of our times. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings And that’s the same thing. I was like, you know the question should be, all right, what can I do to continue to, to try to want to do those kind of things instead of just thinking about BS questions. Just gonna waste both of our time. So I completely agree with that and understanding that you know, I mean, the perfect example, I had to figure out a time to train today. Uh, we took my, uh, my wife and my kids went to the Grand Ole Opry, rushed home last night, got home about 1:30. Literally just, I mean, peeling my eyeballs back and coming in it’s like, man, I gotta hit the ground running. Cause if I don’t do it in the morning, my day’s gonna get away from me. Have some Christmas stuff this afternoon. It’s like, I gotta get up, get the kids, you know, to school kind of whenever they decide to wake up. It’s time to get it in and then kind of do this kind of stuff and kinda go, not a matter, not a matter if and when, just a matter of what time to kind of fit it in and.. You know, I do a lot of reverse engineering. Like I, I kind of plan my day out ahead and kind of understand the best way to kind of create a little bit of margin if I have to. And I mean, that’s all choice. Like I don’t have to do that, but I can sit there and, and spin my wheels and waste time and, and be inefficient and, and frustrate everyone around me, including myself. And, um, so just taking a little bit of more time and effort going into, you know, planning that out, you know, goes a long way for everybody, myself included. Brett Gilliland I just, I think it comes down to integrity, right? I mean, I think about too, you, you know, what you just mentioned there. I don’t wanna gloss over that. You’re out till 1:30, right? Doing the Grand Ole Opry with the wife and kids, you know, there’s a thousand things you could think of than sitting with Brett Gilland on the Circuit of Success, but yet it’s integrity. You committed. And you’re doing it right. Whether you wanted to be here today or not, you’re here. Right? And you showed up. And I think that’s part of life too, right? When we’re chasing greatness, whether it’s in golf or business, you just gotta show up, man, and you gotta do the freaking work. Scott Stallings And I think that’s a big thing too. Like, you know, being a part of what you’re committed to and kind of understanding all those things, uh, is a big part of it. You know, it’s like, like any person, you know, you quit once, it’s easier to quit again. You start getting the reputation of a flake or different things like that. And that’s applicable to everything. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings That’s your family, your relationships, all those things that kind of come in, in doing those things like. And even if it’s the motivation, I don’t want to be that person. Like that’s enough for some people. But I think it kinda like carries yourself just by the way that kind of go into a lot of different things. But you know, uh, and there was, to be honest how we got ourselves in that situation. Uh, it helps if you look at the kids’ school calendar, we were convinced that our kids got outta school on Friday. They don’t actually get outta school till this Wednesday. And both of them have their school parties and everything, so they were adamant. It’s like, Hey, we want to go to this, but you’re getting us back. And I’m like, I’m made for this. The mini tours that college golf built me for. Driving through the night. I’m ready. Brett Gilliland You’re ready. Come in, dusting off the dust and going that, that leads me actually some question that Timmy Riley, Mikey’s brother, uh, wanted talk about. He played golf at University of Illionis. And he said when you were on the NGA Hooters tour. How did you, how did you fund it and, and what did you, what was your typical week like on that? Scott Stallings Um, we were actually telling some mini tour stories to my son last night. I said, buddy, like on mini tours, like you have no money to stay in a hotel or anything. So you basically would drive through the night to find any opportunity, a place that would let you crash on their couch or a house, or kind of whatever that looked like. You know, uh, I was very fortunate. I had a lot of people kind of come around me. I had a good amount of sponsors that kind of got me going my first couple years and kinda allowed my wife and I to be together. Brett Gilliland Yep. Scott Stallings And. Uh, you know, planes, trains, automobiles. We stayed in a single wide at a tournament. Um, we did a, we did, like when I say a bus like this was not a good bus. Like this was like a bad bus. Um, anything that you can think of to get to and from a tournament. Yo, uh, everyone has said if you could write a country song about your career, I said, man, single wides to private jets. I said, we’ve done it all. Brett Gilliland You’ve done it all. Scott Stallings Yeah. I mean, there’s a country song in there somewhere. Brett Gilliland Yeah, absolutely. Just gotta add a dog to it or something, which I think.. Scott Stallings Yeah, very much so. Brett Gilliland Any, are you superstitious? Scott Stallings No, I’m not. I’m probably so superstitious about not being superstitious. I, I would say I’m very routine and my caddy and my wife would probably be better cuz they would, they’re kind of like the same person, uh, just as far as their personalities. Uh, my wife is significantly better looking than my caddy. Brett Gilliland That’s good. Scott Stallings Uh, but uh, just as far as their personality, they probably could tell some stuff that I would do that I don’t realize I knew. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings Especially when I’m playing because my wife said like, I don’t even need to see at you. I can see about two or three mannerisms. And I’m like, yeah, that’s him. That’s him out there. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings So.. Brett Gilliland Well think about your wife too, man. Back to those days when you’re, you know, you’re not on the private jets, you’re on the, the crappy bus. I mean, think of that support. Scott Stallings Yeah, I mean we, we started, we told some hilarious stories and you know, think about like mindset and some of those pinch me moments and different things like that. We had this one tournament where it, I mean, basically we tried to play golf in a hurricane and it was the hardest rain I’ve ever seen in my life and we didn’t. This is before Netflix. This is before anything. This is when Redbox first came out. So just think about how old I am. Um, and we went in and we were trying to figure out what we were gonna do cause it was essentially they were canceling the tournament for three days. Then we were gonna just have like two day just free for all, play as much golf as we could once the storm passed. And uh, I went in and we needed a DVD player, cuz this place we were staying was pretty much, I barely had four walls. And, but it had a tv. It’s like, man, we’re just gonna hammer some Redbox. Just being inside, it’s not really safe to, you know, storm’s awful. And I remember telling, it’s like, I’m gonna go to Walmart. I’m gonna buy this, uh, DVD player and if I play bad, I’m gonna return it. Cuz we’d literally have zero money. Uh, and you know, just something to kind of occupy our time for the next few days. Well, I ended up burning the last hole in the tournament, and I finished third and I made $16,800. That’s the biggest check I’d ever made in my career, and this is my 15th year as a pro. 13th year on the tour, I still have that DVD player. Brett Gilliland Oh, that’s awesome. Scott Stallings Like I, every time I see it, I look at it. I think about that time. I know exactly. I could take you to that Walmart, to that aisle in Savannah, Georgia. And just remember just grinding on it like, man, how am I really gonna spend. It was $39. And I mean that’s truly like, I mean I had some great dudes come around me and support me, but I mean, you know, 39 bucks to play a practice round in a course that you’re getting ready to do a Monday qualifier at, or 39 bucks to kind of occupy your time in the middle of nowhere in Savannah. Like, I mean, those are conversations you had to have in the mini tours. And I think. Uh, I mentioned a good buddy of mine went the Cubs, uh, when he was playing Winter LA Ball. He said they went to this place and they couldn’t afford, uh, any of the room service or anything of this place where he was playing. And, you know, basically they were taking waters from the field and they have a very similar story to us, and they have a George Foreman like sandwich maker. I mean, it was like $30 again. And you, they have a beautiful home, uh, here in Tennessee, and you go and they have this, you’re like, what in the world is this thing doing here? It’s like, yep, it’s staying. That’ll be, that’ll be with us forever. And we don’t even know if it works. But it’s staying. It’s staying. Um.. Brett Gilliland Well, it’s just a mental piece, right? I mean, you think about where you came from. Scott Stallings Yeah, very much so. And I think a bunch of people. So throughout your career you need to have different things. You need to have things you’d aspire to, but have, have other things around you that remind you of, of kinda where you came from and understanding of how not to lose that. And, um, I’ve got a, a wife that fills me with humility on a daily basis and and, and challenges me in a lot of different ways to kind of be a, a better person in a lot of different areas. And, but that’s one of those things that I look on and, you know, very happy to have been a part of my career and, and something that I look at and it’s a conversation piece or whatever, cuz I don’t know the last time someone actually used a DVD player. Um, just with all the stuff that kind of goes along. But hey, we have one. And it, it, it’ll be with us for a long time. Brett Gilliland I love it. I love it. Uh, last two topics. I could talk all day, man, uh, on this stuff, but, uh, I wanna talk, uh, live golf and I wanna talk about bourbon. You OK with those two topics? Scott Stallings Oh, no. I should have some bourbon then we can really get into it. I mean, who knows what I might say. Brett Gilliland Exactly, exactly. Yeah. I told you my goal is to not make the headlines on this stuff. So, but, but I do wanna talk about the, uh, the live golf stuff and what your thoughts are on it. Give us your perspective. Scott Stallings I think live, uh, has pushed the tour into make some changes that they probably were in the process of making and kind of fast tracked them in. There were gonna be some players that took advantage of the situation and myself was included. Um, I had a lot of. Um, opportunities this past season that I probably wouldn’t have otherwise. I mean, making the tour championship, understanding all the stuff that went in with making it to East Lake and the exemption, and, uh, Maui and majors and all the different things that go in effect on world ranking. Um, you know, I was one of those, uh, beneficiaries. Um, I think, uh, the tour’s a little shortsighted in regarding to how they viewed the threat of live, you know, sort of as like, Hey, this is not gonna happen. I wish they’d done a little bit better job as far as, you know, preparing for the, you know, the sort of shock and awe that came, oh, they actually did it. I was like, yeah, they’re gonna do it. But at the end of the day, I think that the PGA Tour is the best tour in the world. I think that Live is, is an exhibition and it’s a, it’s, it’s very entertaining. Um, I, I’m not sure exactly how viable it is in terms of the way that their business plan is and with tv and that’s, again, I know nothing about that. So I’m gonna try to give my opinions on things that I know, not things that I hope or speculate. But I think that like them saying they had the best players in the world. They do have, their roster is very strong as far as guys that have accomplished a lot. But they have a, a decent amount of guys that were just the first people to say yes. Like there’s no legacy, there’s no understanding of how to qualify. You know, there’s, you know, no one had to go dig it in the dirt. Like Tiger was saying and, and figure it out and, and, and qualified against status. I mean, they signed their name on a piece of paper and, and, you know, kind of, you know, hitch themselves to a, to a horse that, that didn’t really know what direction it was going in. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings And um, I think that, uh, it pushed the tour to kind of understand they needed to change some things, which I was a huge proponent of. Uh, as long as I’ve been on tour. And I think we’re gonna continue to see that evolve. Um, I think the tour has a big transition year in 2023, uh, preparing for 24 with the new schedule and some new partnerships that are coming along. And it’ll be very interesting to see how, uh, the fans and the players kind of react to, you know, for the, I think there’ll be some that are very, very positive. I think some that’ll be pretty controversial. Brett Gilliland Yeah. And I think too, I mean, they, they don’t have their story, right? I mean, think about that DVD story. I think back, even through my career, the things I used to do, and going and driving across God’s green Earth at eight o’clock at night to go to somebody’s house, and I mean, just grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. I don’t think even the young guys that, the guys that don’t even know who they are, that are signing there, they’re not gonna have those moments. And I think there’s a lot to learn about life and about the grind and about winning in, in those moments, don’t you? Scott Stallings Yeah, very much so. Uh, I mean, but that’s not to say that like I was just not given an offer. Like, it’s pretty easy to say, oh, I did it, I turned it down. It’s like, yeah, I mean, like, so I never really had to, you know, face the music there or anything. You know, I, I think there’s a, a lot of scenarios where, uh, sorry, one second. My, I’m trying to figure out what I’m doing with my dog . Uh, but I think there’s a lot of scenarios. You know, it’s pretty easy to say, oh, I did this, I did that. When you didn’t really had to face a, you know, a whatever, a 10 figure offer or, or whatever, you know, people were getting figure, it’s a lot easier to sit there and like, you know, who knows what I’d have done in that situation. I’m happy where I’m at. I’m looking forward to the opportunities to have to plan on the PGA tour and, you know, hopefully they’ll continue to adjust, uh, for the better to kind of, you know, help us and continue to help us be the best tour in the world. Brett Gilliland Love it. Love it. Uh, let’s change the subject from bourbon now. What, what are you thinking there? What’s, if I had to ask you though, what’s your favorite bourbon? If you had one bottle you could have the rest of your life. What, what is it? Scott Stallings If somebody gave me a, uh, a barrel of, uh, I would probably do a barrel proof tailor, and that would, that would probably be it. I would give away everything else I have. Brett Gilliland Hmm. Scott Stallings And that would be.. Brett Gilliland That’s one. I don’t, I don’t have the barrel proof. That’s a hard one to find man. Scott Stallings Yeah, a high proof wheater is kind of my preference and uh, you know, I can be a fast consumer in a lot of different ways and so a little bit of bite and a little bit of proof goes a long way for me. Brett Gilliland I like it. So what do you see the future of Bourbon man? Cause it’s crazy right now, isn’t it? I mean, just even going to my local gas station here and what they’re wanting to charge for some of these wellers or other things, it’s nuts. Scott Stallings Yeah, I think they’ll be a big, uh, pullback and kind of where you get the year of authenticity in terms of their branding and uh, you know, 60% of the bourbon market in the United States comes from the same distillery. You know, in the middle of Indiana it’s just kind of a marketing plane and different things like that. I think people are playing on, you know, thoughts, feelings, and emotions, you know, creating a brand around a story, not necessarily what’s in, you know, cause what was in the bottle and what was in the barrel used to matter and it should matter to a lot of people instead of necessarily what the label says. And, you know, people play way more time and attention into the label and the story behind it instead of actually what the, the story that went into making the juice. So I’m way more on that side and.. Yo, uh, like I’m a Taylor guy, any wheat, but like you gimme some age Wild Turkey and or some old school like Heaven Hill. And man, I’m gonna have no problems. Brett Gilliland I love it. Yeah. The, um, I love the horse soldier story, man, that, you know, every one of those bottles is made and touches the steel from September 11th or from the, uh Twin Towers. I think that’s a pretty cool story. Scott Stallings Mm-hmm. Yeah. They, I mean, it definitely is. And they do a good job. And those guys are man, They drink some rocket fuel down there, and I just think that there’s a, you know, there’s some opportunities to kind of tell stories and there’s some opportunities to kind of make ’em up and, you know, unfortunately the way that that world is, is sort of 50- 50. Their story is incredible and you can go just down the aisle and you know, it’s the same juice and someone’s trying to tell the complete opposite story and you know, when you start understanding the business model of it and how you start source and how you, then you pot and still, and then you kinda go, whether you call ’em and then you age and mix and batch and all the different ways to create a business and a brand outta, you know, something that takes a long time to create. Uh, it’s a wild world and uh, something I’m very interested in and, um you know, very fortunate to kind of learn from a lot of different people that are way better than me. Not only in golf and fitness, but uh, the bourbon world as well. Brett Gilliland And see, it sounds like you’re dialing in that bourbon knowledge, just like you’re dialing 56 degree Wedge Man. Maybe we’ll see some future stuff coming outta Scott Stallings for some bourbon or something. Who knows? Scott Stallings Yeah, I got a long, I got a, I got a long way to go in that department. Brett Gilliland What, uh, final questions here. What, what, uh, what is something, you know, with the, this crazy schedule you have that your passions that you wish you had more time to, uh, to, to do. Scott Stallings Our kids play free program. Uh, something that we do a lot with in, in Tennessee. Uh, we’re adding more courses and different things and just more, be more hands-on, on the day-to-day. Like I do events, uh, some dinners, golf tournaments kind of throughout, but just to be a little bit more involved with the new beginners and kind of see that first time where the kids have a chance. You know, touch a club for the first-time. That’s kind of the goal of the program. Just take away all the variables of time, cost, and availability, and kind of giving people a chance to you know, to learn from the game that’s given me more than I deserve. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Scott Stallings And uh, so I, I wish I had a little bit more time for that. Um, my wife has really started taking up, uh, tennis and playing and I said if I could take some time, I think I could be pretty good at it. But if you play about three times a year, you’re not getting better at anything. So, um, that would be probably it. Brett Gilliland Yeah, I like it. I like it. Well man, thanks so much, Scott, for being on the Circuit of Success. Like I said, you got a million things, uh, a million different directions you can go. Appreciate the wisdom. A lot of takeaways here for me today on the Circuit of Success and appreciate your time. Scott Stallings Absolutely man. Thanks for having me on and uh, I’m sure we’ll see you guys again.

Justin Su’a is the Head of Mental Performance for the Tampa Bay Rays of Major League Baseball. He works with players to enhance their mental performance to perform under enormous pressure. He has worked for the Boston Red Sox as well as the NFL’s Cleveland Browns. He is the author of two books,“Parent Pep Talks” and “Mentally Tough Teens” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2LDhBAxMnk     All right. Welcome to the Circle of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland. Today I’ve got Justin Su’a with me. Justin. How you doing, man? Justin Su’a Doing great, Brett. You’re doing great. Looking forward to the conversation. Brett Gilliland Awesome. Me as well, man. It is. Uh, we were talking before we hit record here, September 11th, 2018 was the last time you and I spoke five plus years ago. I can’t, I, I can’t believe it’s been that long. Justin Su’a It’s, it’s incredible. Yeah. It seemed like, uh, yeah. I remember, I remember our last conversation vividly. Brett Gilliland Yes, it was, uh, I, one of my favorite quotes that I’ve done this, see, you’re the 316th interview I’ve done now, and, uh, for some reason, one of the quotes you said is “dominate the level you’re at.” And, uh, I may be paraphrasing there, but dominate the level you’re at. Has really stuck with me and even a couple of my buddies. We’ve, we’ve continued to talk about it. Is no matter where you’re at in life, man, just, just dominate that area. It may not be exactly where you’re going or want to be going, but if you’re there, choose to be there and dominate it. So I’m gonna kick off with that man. Is, is your thoughts on that when you hear me say that from five plus years ago? Justin Su’a It’s, it’s really neat. I, I, I like the fact that you said that it’s a really good reminder because I think there are certain principles that hold true. They’re universal and they’re timeless. And I think that is one in particular that is a, just a simple reminder, uh, number one, dominate being, being, doing the best that you possibly can wherever you are. I think we still, even still, we live in a world where we’re looking ahead. We are, we are not where our feet are, we are not fully present. And I think reminding ourselves to dominate the level we’re at is to be fully focused and go all in on where you currently are and letting the outcome and the results take care of themselves. And doors will open to the degree that you put forth your best effort in the here and now. So I’m, I’m still, uh, I’ll still double down on that, uh, on that principle. And I, and I still believe it even five years later. Brett Gilliland Yeah. It’s so true, man. It’s, uh, and, and you talk about a lot as well as control the controllables. So let’s, let’s talk about that. When you, when you hear me say control the controllables, we’ve all heard it, we’ve read it in books, you hear it a million times from people, but what does that mean to you and how do you help people with that? Justin Su’a Yeah, I think it’s, it’s a simple principle, but it’s, it’s hard to execute at times. Uh, controlling the controlling controllables it starts with identifying, what can I control? I, I think asking yourself that question, looking in the mirror and saying, okay, the nature of my situation is very difficult. Uh, it’s it being able to look at the brutal facts of whatever you’re going through and saying, okay, what can I control of this situation. Now, with that, with that, it’s also understanding and identifying the things you cannot control. Now the things you try to control, but can’t, end up controlling you. There’s a phrase that you, you hear a lot of people say is you can control your thoughts, you can control your, uh, you can control your thoughts. We’ll just, we’ll just stop with that. Sometimes someone might not feel they can control their thoughts. Sometimes they might not feel they can control their emotions because of the nature of whatever they’re going through. And I think it’s very important to understand that, you know what? My mind is screaming right now. I can’t control my attention. I can’t control my thoughts. So instead of beating up on yourself over these things that you should control to be able to say, you know what, right now I can’t control my thoughts. Okay, what can I control? What can I, what, what can I grab a hold of? And sometimes it might be a very small hold on this tiny little corner of, of, of things that you can control and go all in on that. Another thing to identify as well is there are uncontrollable factors that are contributing to your success or your failure. It is very important to identify what those are as well. A lot of times we’ll succeed. Let’s say you have a good week, you have a good quarter, you have a good year. You need to identify and say, okay, what were things that contributed to my success that I had absolutely no control over? Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a Because it keeps us humble. It keeps us grounded. But also when we fail and when we struggle, it’s also important to ask, okay, what were things that I could not control that contributed to my failures. That contributed, that contributed to my struggles to help you realize that, hey, there were things outside of my control that I couldn’t control, I can’t beat up on myself about because they were complete uncontrollable factors that I had nothing to do with. Brett Gilliland Yeah. And, and, uh, I think, you know, when I look back, I mean, last time we chatted again five plus years ago, you’re with the Boston Red Sox, and I believe maybe the Cleveland Browns, uh, now with the Tampa Bay Rays, you guys made the playoffs this year. That’s good. Uh, so you’re, you’re the, you’re the director, I guess the head of mental performance, uh, for the whole team. And so when you’re, when you’re with guys like that day in and day out, man, you’re with the best, right? The best baseball players in the world. Well, what are you seeing from them? Based on everything we’re talking about, dominate the level you’re at control, the controllables, all these things. What are you seeing that you can just sit back in the dugout and watch that and kind of almost in awe saying “This is happening day in and day out.” Justin Su’a What I, I like that phrase that you said. What I’m in awe of is anytime you are around elite performers in any industry or any domain, and I’ll speak specifically about the players who I get to see day in and day out, is number one is this, is this feeling that they’re not only pursuing greatness, but you’re all, uh, you’re not this feeling that you’re not only chasing, but you’re being chased at the same. It’s this constant angst of I wanna be great, but I know people are right behind me trying to be great as well. Brett Gilliland Right. Justin Su’a And when you are surrounded by people who are competing for the same thing, everyone has the goal to win the World Series. That’s the thing about goal setting. Everyone wants to be great in this level. Everyone wants to win. Okay? So what are the things that you’re doing? What are the behaviors that you’re setting up for yourselves, what are the systems, what are the habits that you wanna be deliberate with that will… where the, to, to the degree where the byproduct is success. And I think this group in particular, this, this level of performer, they’re, yes, they are pursuing outcomes, but they’re dogged and rig and rigid and relentless on their pursuit of creating high performance habits. And because they know, as they solidify their inputs, as they solidify those controllable habits, the output or the results will take care of themselves. And it has been neat to watch them have a front row seat, to watch them embrace the boredom of consistency away from the cameras away from away from the crowd. That is, that is huge. Brett Gilliland I mean, and you’re seeing that, right? Because I mean, you think about you get there, say the game’s at 7:10, I mean, you’re getting there what, one o’clock maybe even before that? Justin Su’a Yes. Even before that. Even before that. Brett Gilliland Yeah. So to your point, is that, that’s the boring, mundane type stuff, isn’t it? I mean that you show up, it’s not the same locker room every time, but in a sense it’s right square room, bathroom, some weights, little batting cage. It’s the same stuff every single day. But yet these guys show up even on days they don’t want to. and, and they do it. So do you find, I’m, cause I’m fascinated with this stuff. Do you find that this thing is just so ingrained in them that they don’t need to go to a journal or a, you know, a workbook type thing? Or are they taking notes on their selves, on each other, on other things? Like what are they doing that we can apply, what they’re doing in the locker room, that we can apply to the boardroom at work? Justin Su’a I think you brought up a really good point. I think they, not everybody, and I don’t, I don’t want to say that all athletes are the same. Brett Gilliland Sure. Justin Su’a All, uh, performers are meditating. All of them are journaling. Some are, some aren’t. Some try, some don’t. Some meditate, some don’t. Uh, but what is, but what I have noticed is some are willing to look in the mirror and say, okay, what do I need to improve and what am I, and they’re willing to make adjustments in order to approve in those outcomes. So for example, yes, there are some athletes who are absolutely journaling. Uh, there are some athletes who are meditating and they are very deliberate on their meditative practice. There are some who, rather than journaling, they like to talk about it, they want to self-reflect at the end of their game or at the end of the series or at the end of the series, uh, at the end of the month to be able to calibrate and recalibrate where they’re at to see their trajectory. Uh, there are some who practice visual visualization. There are some who don’t. There are some who are very mindful of, of, of the thoughts that they have going through their mind and their attention mechanisms that they use to, to, to narrow their attention. And some, not so much it, but, so I think that’s a lesson in and of itself. They are very aware of, of identifying what works for them. And, uh, they, they do what works for them and what works for one person might not work for another person. And they’re, they are very well aware of if they see a teammate doing something, rather than jumping on and adopting that same habit, they investigate, Hey, why do you do that? Why, how long have you been doing that? What works for you? Okay, let me see if I could either do something similar or taper it so that it works for me. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Yeah. The old steel shamelessly, right? I mean, if it’s working for your buddy, especially in sports man, people are so superstitious and, and, and I was talking to Daniel Descalso, he played for the Cardinals and amongst other, among other teams. But he talked about even the times when he is going like, oh, for 15, but you’re hitting the crap outta the ball, right? But you’re just hitting line drives right at the short stop or a line drive at the center fielder. I mean, those are the times where it’s so frustrating. And, and so what do those guys do to stay in the game even though they’re doing the right things, they’re not just, they’re just not getting the outcome that they want. Justin Su’a I think that the answer is in the question you just asked. Uh, separating the process from the outcome. And a lot of times we focus so much on the outcome, but sometimes the process leading, you did everything right. Everything, everything in your power, you did… you crossed your T’s, you dotted your I’s, you did properly, but you’re performing against the best in the world and there are things inside of your control and outside of your control. And you know what? You hit it right at a person or they made a great play or the, it just didn’t work out in your favor. And I think there’s a very powerful lesson to go with that, to not conflate decision making and results. We, we learned this in poker. I think Annie Duke, Annie Duke is a, is a very great example of this and teaches this. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a You cannot mix the two. Uh, just a a, a very simple example about this is just because you run a red light, you decide to run a red light and pass through the intersection unscathed. That, that doesn’t mean it was a good decision. That that was dumb luck that that don’t think. But on the same side, if it’s a green light and you decide not to go on the green light and another car comes barreling through the intersection and you would’ve been hit, or there would’ve been an accident had you gone through. That doesn’t mean it was a good decision. That was dumb. That was, uh, that was dumb. That was dumb luck. And so, or, or as you’re going through a green light and you get hit, that wasn’t, doesn’t mean it was a bad decision to go through the green light, it was bad luck. And so being able to understand and tease out and to say, Hey, the decision, the process was good. But the outcome wasn’t good. Don’t throw away the process just because the outcome was bad. And I say, I think they learn that very often here at the, at the highest level, but it’s an, it’s an easy trap to fall into. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Do you, I mean, I, I assume, and maybe I shouldn’t, maybe I shouldn’t assume that, but I, I gotta think that you’re even taking notes for the off season, right? I mean, things that you’re doing uh, in the off season, the people that you’re helping, I mean, are, are, are you a note taker? Are you, uh, taking mental notes, physical notes, like what are you doing to stay a student in the game for you to help your athletes and other clients get better? Justin Su’a Yes. I think there’s a couple of things. Number one is, is being able to have conversations to, to talk about what I observed and that’s why I think that the Axiom build relationships so strong, they could bear the weight of truth is so important to be able to ask an athlete, Hey, I’m noticing this. Um, tell me what you see, or tell me what your thoughts are about that. Hey, I noticed this. You used to do this. You don’t do that anymore, or you do this and you used to do it before, is that on purpose or is that not? And so this off season, this is a great time to be able to have a lot of those great conversations and ask them, Hey, what were your strengths? What were your weaknesses? What do you wanna do next season? And I think that’s, imperative number one. Brett Gilliland So.. Justin Su’a Number Two. Brett Gilliland I’m sorry, go ahead. Justin Su’a Uh, number two, it’s very important for me to continue to strengthen my skillset, whether it be learning more about neuroscience, learning more about organizational, uh, uh, behavior, learning more about how to ask better questions. Uh, you’re right, taking notes, taking courses, getting more education so that I can be a better, uh, a better resource for the people who I work with. Just like an elite athletes here they are trying to sharpen and get better and, and improve. I would be doing a disservice if I wasn’t trying to do the same thing on my end, if I wasn’t trying to learn and grow and understand and, and, and get better and sharp with my own skillset. And that’s where the off season is for myself and for the coaches as well. What can we do to get better so that we can be better resources for these athletes who are trying to get better as well? Brett Gilliland Yeah. Cause the expectations are high, right? I mean, you’ve got high expectations, but they’ve got high expectations for you and there’s a ton of guys and gals out there that, that want to put on that, that raise, uh, hat and come in the locker room every day. Right. So you gotta stay on your game, man. Which I think for us in the business world is important. You know, there, there’s people coming for your clients, your patients, whatever it is you do for a living. I mean, that stuff is always out there. So we gotta, we gotta stay a student in the game, I think is a, is a big deal. You, you put on recently on social media, you said, um, it was a post. I’m gonna paraphrase, but basically, you know, if you wanna set high goals, your lifestyle must be in line with those high goals, right? And so I think, so let’s talk about that because I don’t know if it was Bryce Harper or Mike Trout. I remember somebody saying, it’s basically a lot of guys just want to get to the league, but they said their main goal was to get to the Hall of Fame. And so that’s a different expectation, right? If I wanna be in the Hall of Fame, well, here’s my work ethic. If I just want to get to the league, well, maybe you get there and you last a week and then you’re gone and you’ll never come back. So, so talk about that lifestyle, setting high goals, and what we gotta do there. Justin Su’a Yes. Uh, people, uh, people underestimate whenever you set a high goal, uh, you also have to commit to the lifestyle that’s going to be required to achieve that goal. And what a lot of people do is they underestimate the cost of the goal. Like everything comes with the cost. And when I say cost, it’s going to, what’s it? Whatever goal that you set in any in your life, you need to ask yourself, what’s the cost of time? What’s the cost of energy, and what’s gonna be the cost of my focus? You have to honestly ask yourself that question, those questions, because the higher goal you have, the, the, the higher your expectations, the more it’s going to cost. And that’s just in anything, in anything in life. If you want, uh, more things that are more expensive or higher quality is gonna cost more. And you just need to add, just be honest with yourself. Do I really want this goal? Okay, great. I cannot underestimate how hard it’s going to be and how long it’s going to take, and so if you’re going to set a high goal, you need to ask yourself, what am I willing to do? There are trade-offs, and in order to pay the price to achieve these things, it’s going to require a cost, and so it might be you have to start doing some things. You have to ask yourself, okay, if I’m gonna achieve that, and this is the cost, what do I need to start doing? What do I need to stop doing and what do I need to keep doing in order to achieve this goal. And then once you start getting down that track, a lot of people will realize, you know what? This isn’t for me. This, this, this is not for me. Because if it was easy, everybody would do it. Everybody.. Brett Gilliland Everyone. Justin Su’a Would do it. But if you, yeah, if you wanna truly be consistent and and really achieve these things, it’s going to take a lot of effort. Now, another thing as well is you don’t have to do everything all at once. It’s all about being, chipping away and being consistent every single day and building the capacity to be able to stick with it for the long haul. You, where people struggle is they focus on intensity and they don’t focus on consistency. Focus on building these tiny, small habits every single day and then you slowly build it. Slowly build it, slowly build it. It’s that long term success. Um.. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a They, they think that success is built in a microwave when the reality is success is built in a slow cooker. Brett Gilliland Yeah. And I agree with that, and I think there’s, in my opinion, there’s, there’s difference in working at a motivation and working at a purpose, right? So, I mean, if you gotta constantly be getting motivated. I mean, day in and day out, you gotta listen to motivational speaker, you gotta get your pump up music, you gotta do all this stuff. I don’t think you’re real clear on what you’re trying to go do. Right? So I know for me, when I’m working in my purpose, helping people achieve a future greater than their past, when I’m doing that, I don’t need motivation. I’m doing what I’m put on this earth to do, right? But yet, how do we dig deep? And even on days we don’t wanna do it and maybe you had a comment there when you hear me say that. Justin Su’a It was so refreshing what you said. I, I took a deep breath cause I’m like, that was refreshing and that is true. Motivation is such a, it’s a, it’s a word that you hear a lot. I was talking to someone the other day and they’re like, how do I motivate my people? And that’s a common question, I think. Brett Gilliland Oh, sure. Justin Su’a Great leaders or leaders are asking, how do I motivate my people coaches? How do I motivate my athletes parents? How do I motivate my kids? But what the research shows, a better question is how do I create an environment where they motivate themselves? And even that word motivation is interesting too, because we never use the word motivation. The athletes not even on purpose. Yeah. The athletes at the highest level never talk about motivation because it’s discipline, it’s purpose. Like it’s, you’ve building these habits where when you’re creating a habit, at first it’s uh, uncomfortable, but then if you keep doing it, it becomes unbreakable. And motivation, it’s you have to be willing to do something even when you don’t feel like doing it. These guys, they don’t feel like eating the way they eat. They don’t feel like doing these boring mundane things. But you do it because your purpose is, is stronger than your desire to not do it. It’s like, Hey, this is just what I do. And an example I always give is like brushing your teeth. Uh, I always ask somebody, I’ll ask someone. Are you motivated to brush your teeth? What motivates you to brush your teeth? Assuming that you do it every day. And they’re like, well, I just, I don’t, I don’t, I’m not motivated. I just do it. You just do it. It’s like interesting. Brett Gilliland Right. Justin Su’a You just naturally do it. You’ll, you can create these habits where maybe at first you need motivation as you want to call, call it. But then it’s discipline and then it’s purpose, and then you get to a point to where it’s just what you do. Brett Gilliland It’s just what I do. Justin Su’a You just, it’s just baked. This is just what I do. It’s just what I do. And, and it’s, it’s with that consistency. Brett Gilliland Yeah. And I think let’s stay on the, uh, brushing your teeth. I always talk about the fact that, you know, it’s not, let’s call it twice a day that you’re brushing your teeth, but it’s not 14 times on Sunday. Oh, I got my 14 times in. Right. No, no, no, no, no. It’s twice a day, seven days a week whether you wanna do it or not, just for something that small, right? And so it’s the same thing. People are like, well, you know, I’m doing this on, uh, you know, on Sunday, maybe I get a big workout in, or I get this eaten ride in, or whatever it may be. But it’s not that, man. It’s twice a day, 14 times a week. And that’s what we gotta do with our personal lives as well. And I think, I found I was working and was successful early on in my financial advising career, but I was always having to search for that motivation. Because I wasn’t truly living the authentic life that I wanted to be living, right? Hence why I end up leaving there and starting my own firm is to work more on my purpose. And I think that’s where if in anybody’s driving down the road or exercising, listening to this, and you’re constantly looking for motivation, I would say dig deeper and go find your purpose. Would you agree? Justin Su’a I love that. Yeah. Purpose is, it’s your engine behind performance. Uh, you look at these athletes who are fast and strong and smart and talented. You’re gonna run into when you get to the highest level, everyone’s fast. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a Everyone’s strong, everyone’s talented, everyone’s smart. But it’s, it’s like, like a really nice car. Like, it doesn’t matter how nice the car is, if it doesn’t have an engine, it’s not going anywhere. It, it’s not going anywhere. Brett Gilliland Mm-hmm. Justin Su’a And so for me, engine, purpose is the engine that drives performance. Why do you do what you do? And sometimes it changes. There’s a time when I was sitting, I was with the Browns and an athlete comes into my office and he said, sue a man I’m just kind of going through the motions. I’m just, I don’t know what it is. I’m just kind of, I’m not as driven as I used to be. And the first question I ask is, okay, common question. What’s your why this? If you’re okay with it, can you share with me your why? What’s your purpose? Brett Gilliland Mm-hmm. Justin Su’a And he goes, this is what his answer was, to play in NFL. And right when he said that he stopped himself. And I said, did you just say to play in the N F L is your purpose? And he was almost embarrassed that he said that out loud. He had been in the N F L for three years, for three seasons, which is a very, it’s longer than normal. Like. Brett Gilliland Twice as long as the average, right? Justin Su’a Yes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And he goes, oh my goodness. And I said, tell me about, he said what? He goes to play in the N F L was my why through college. It was my why through high school. It drove me, it propelled me, it lit me on fire. It helped me through the N F L combine. He goes, it was, it wa it’s what kept me going. It was my fire. And he goes, I didn’t think of changing my why until right now. I kept it, it got me here, but once I got here, I, it wasn’t until that moment he didn’t realize that he now needed to change his why, to find something to fire him up, to find something to propel him. We sat there, we went through his why. We created a new one and wouldn’t you know it, he’s still playing to this day, and that was four years ago and he’s still playing. He has some pro bowls under his belt, big contracts under his belt, and we talked about it. He goes I went through a little, I went through a little dry spell and it all it took was him recalibrating his purpose to light that fire under him. For himself. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a For himself to keep going on. So that’s why I like purpose so much is like, what is your why? Why do you do what you do? Because you’ll find more power to do what you do when you do it on purpose with purpose. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Well, so many things stand out for me right there. But number one is the, the teacher appears when the student’s ready. Right? I mean, he, he, but he needed that sounding board in you. And so again, people listening to this, I would say if you don’t have a coach or you don’t have a mentor, but you’re feeling stuck, right now. Just go talk to somebody and, and so many times when by us talking to somebody, we can figure it out on our own, right? Just like he started to figure it out. But now you got that confidant with you that’s gonna help you and walk you through it and be there for you. And that’s a big, big deal. Justin Su’a I, I like what you said, because I always get the question, what do you tell these elite athletes? What do you tell them? And the reality is, I respect their experience and I respect their expertise. They are highly competitive. They have done things that I couldn’t imagine doing. Brett Gilliland Right? Justin Su’a Um, even earlier in my career when I was with the military, when I, I’ve never been in the military. I’ve never jumped outta planes. I’ve never been in combat. I’ve never played major league baseball. I’ve never led an organiz-, a multimillion dollar organization. However, however, when I sit with these athletes and these leaders, it’s asking questions and providing a space where they feel safe to, to listen to themselves talk, creating a space where they can hear themselves think out loud. And they’ll say certain things and then they’ll be like, whoa, I’ve never said that out loud. I’ve had it in my head. I’ve never said it out loud. And, and the, the, the principle I always love to lay to lean on is if you want better answers, start asking better questions. Brett Gilliland Mm-hmm. Justin Su’a And so I will ask these questions. Hey, what is your why? What are you afraid of? What are your weaknesses? And to let them answer and let them put it on the table and say, okay, let’s look through these answers, and pick one up and say, do you, you just said this. Do you believe this? What about this? Okay, let’s put that down. Or what are you gonna do about it? Okay, great. All right. And so that’s what really I, I feel, uh, my role is, is to provide a space to ask questions so that they could answer their own questions and find their own answers. And, and then take action with what they’re saying. Then I, then I ask, okay, so there’s your answer. So now what, what are you gonna do about it? And help them with their decision making ability. Brett Gilliland Yeah. It’s a common theme that I talk about on here. So people are, uh, or will probably know what I’m gonna say, but the, the A D T ask don’t tell. And I always say that because if I tell you something right, then it’s just me as your coach or me as your boss, or me as your parent, right? Even our kids. But if I can ask, great questions. And they come up with it on their own. Well, it’s the gospel then at that point, right? It’s their idea. And I think that’s where we gotta get to. And I put this post on last week on social media, um, and I, it was just a blank sheet of paper. And I said, how do you start your 2023 planning? And for me, it’s a blank sheet of paper, an ink pen, and a bunch of great questions to ask this guy, right? The guy you look in the mirror. Justin Su’a Mm-hmm. Brett Gilliland And so, uh, I think that’s really, really powerful to ask other people good questions that you’re coaching or working with, but ask yourself the questions too, man, because you’re laying in bed at night and you’re thinking, or you get up in the morning, you’re doing, your routines of working out and meditation, whatever may be, those questions are really, really solid to ask yourself. Justin Su’a Uh, it reminds me of, uh, so in 2020 we’re at the World Series. We’re playing against the Dodgers and I’m in the outfield during batting practice and I approach a player who had an outstanding regular season and I said, what do you got, man? How you doing? And he says, well, I’m really, I’m really nervous. Understandably so. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a And so my next question was, why? Well, well what’s, what’s on your mind? And he starts going, what if I’m, what if I embarrass myself? What if I fail? What if, what if I ruin it for our team? What, what if all these questions. And, and he and I sit there and I said, that’s, that’s a really good point. And then I say, well, what if, what if you’re the MVP of the World Series? What if you play so well, you, you sign a multimillion dollar contract? What if you are so good you’re on the cover of MLB, the show, the video game, the next season? And we just start laughing and, and he, he laugh, he laughs, he goes, I see what you did there. I’m like, well. Brett Gilliland I see what you did there. Justin Su’a What… I said, so essentially is two principles from this. Number one is when uncertainty is looming. When we do not know what the future holds, our mind is going to go to the negative. It’s the negative. It’s going to be the negative what if. We are gonna paint this doom and gloom because of the negativity bias as a protective mechanism. But another corollary lesson that we learned from this is when you ask yourself a question. Your mind is going to go and bring back evidence to answer that question. So if you’re asking yourself, why am I such a bad leader? Your mind is going to go and give you evidence to why you’re a bad leader. If you ask yourself, why does this always happen to me? Why am I so bad? Your mind is going to go and find and bring evidence to support that question. And so we always say, if you want better questions or answers, start asking better questions. Instead of asking that it’s okay, what can I learn from this situation? What is, how is this making me stronger? What am I grateful for? Okay, how can my purpose help me through this difficult time. And as you ask yourself these great questions, you are going to be able to build this support through the questions that you ask. And so what we’re aiming to do is help athletes and leaders and people enhance the quality of the questions that they ask themselves so that the outputs could be more productive. Brett Gilliland So let me ask you some questions then, since we’re all, since I’ve been doing it the whole time actually. Uh, but, uh, if I follow you around, okay, I’ve got a camera crew now. We’re gonna follow you around for a while and what am I gonna find day in and day out justin is doing without fail. Justin Su’a Without fail, you will see that there will be, you’ll see me flow like because of the nature. I have three teenager. Three teenage kids. Uh, we are in a smaller space in Los Angeles, California. We live in Florida. We have kids everywhere. So what you’ll see is how fluid, and my schedule isn’t always under my control now that I’m in the off season, I’m in the off season. I am, I am basically, okay, I’m here, I’m there with my wife, with my kids. You’ll see me do some kind of physical workout every single day. Every single day. Brett Gilliland Seven days a week. Justin Su’a You’ll see six days a week. One day I will like, I, I will, yeah, six days, six days a week. Uh, you’ll always see me, um, you will always see me do some type of learning with a book, uh, and you’ll see me take journaling. You will always see me doing some type of, of, of growth and reflection of the day. You will always see me check in with a player or a coaching staff of the team a hundred percent of the time, whether it be through text or phone call to check in with somebody. And you’ll always see me um, I’m going through, I’m, I’m going through school right now. I’m, I’m getting a PhD in organizational psychology and so I will always be reading a research article right now. Um, always 100% chipping away at my dissertation every single day without fail. And you always see me having some time with the family, like.. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a Games or, or whatnot. But I will always do that. Now, once the season starts, you’ll see, you’ll see those things, but it’s, it’s completely different schedule. Brett Gilliland Because you travel with the team every game, right? I mean, you’re gone just like you’re a baseball player. Justin Su’a Correct. Correct. And so I, there’s a little hesitation in that because sometimes when the team is on the road, I’ll stay, stay back with the, with the injured rehab players. Brett Gilliland Okay. Justin Su’a Or if the team is at home playing against a team, I am gonna be going to AAA to, to, to, to help there to see a player who like, so I will. But yeah, 90% of the time I am with the team. Brett Gilliland You’re sitting in the dugout watching the game that, uh, Brett Phillips was on the team. He was there when Yeah, he was there. Uh, that’s when you guys hit the, uh, or won the, uh, World Series, right? Justin Su’a Uh, when we won Game five. Brett Phillips. Yes. I had a. Brett Gilliland Yeah, yeah. Game winning hit. Justin Su’a Unbelievable experience. Brett Gilliland Yeah. He just got a, an award, uh, here in St. Louis on a board I set on the Musial Awards after Stan Musial. And, uh, he got an award for the work he’s doing, um, with a, with a girl, a little girl down there that’s sick with cancer and all that. It’s an amazing story. Amazing story. Story. Yeah. Justin Su’a Yes. Brett Gilliland Yeah, exactly. Justin Su’a Beautiful, beautiful story. Brett Gilliland Yeah, it’s a great story. So I just thought I’d share that, so, um. Justin Su’a That’s cool. Brett Gilliland Yeah. So when you think about your, uh, the power of framing, again, another post you put on there, talk to our listeners about the power of framing. Justin Su’a Yeah. Uh, framing really comes down to how you are interpreting your situation. I think it was Wayne Dwyer Dyer who said that when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. And even though we cannot control what is happening to us, we, we, we have certain amount of control, power comes in the way you frame it. Power comes in the way you interpret it. What is the meaning you are giving behind your current situation? And is the meaning helping you or is the meaning hurting you? And framing is a, is a, is a term that we use, but the way I like to talk about it are literal frames. When you take a picture and you put a frame around that picture, there are all types of. Glass frames, metal frames, big frames, small frames, and it’ll add a little color to that picture. And frames are expensive, frames are cheap, frames are homemade. And with macaroni. And frames are, are they’re different types. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a And that is exactly how we need to look at our situations. How are you framing this situation? Because how you frame the situation will impact, number one, how it influences you, and then number two, what you’re going to do about it. Now, I am not a fan. I’m not a fan of uh, of, of toxic positivity frames. I am not a fan, fan of Everything is great in awesome frames. Oh. Or or, or just discounting. Um, just, just trying to look away frames like, oh, I’m not gonna, I’m not going to, I’m, I’m not going to account for my role in this situation. I’m not going to account for my influence on how bad this, how I’m contributing to the problem. No, the best frame in my opinion, is being able to look at the brutal facts. What are the brutal facts? How am I contributing to it? How am I not contributing to it? Okay, great. How is this affecting me? How does it make me feel? Okay, great. What am I gonna do about it? And then what are the indicators that my process is right? Uh, because a lot of times what we don’t talk about a lot is we don’t talk about the lagging effects of a system. So for example, let’s say you wanna get in shape, you can’t go to to the gym for two weeks, eat right for two weeks and not see, or let’s just say, let’s say, let’s say one week and you’re not seeing any, any, um, outcome, you’re not seeing any benefits. Say, ah, I’m throwing it out the window. It’s like, no, you have to account for the lagging effect. You have to account that it’s going to take time. And so when you do frame and you do identify the changes you need to make, and then you need to make the change. Then you also need to account for the fact that, you know what, okay, I need to account for the fact that this is going to take weeks before I see the benefits of my effort. It might take months before I see the benefits of my effort. And so, um, framing has so many other concepts packaged into it, but I think it’s, it’s on the outset it’s asking yourself, how am I interpreting this? And also accounting for your blind spots and your own cognitive biases. We all have them. We all have biases. We all have these, these biases, these blind spots. That’s why it’s important to surround ourselves with people we trust who can hold us accountable for our own blind spots. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Yeah. That’s so big, isn’t it? I mean, and, but I also think that’s where you talked about earlier, your journal. I mean, I know for me, my blind spots, it’s where, and nobody’s perfect you, but that’s where you sit down and again, ask yourself questions. Right. But I also think when you were, it popped in my mind as I called the bounce back theory, is the framing. So no matter what happens in our, our day or weeks, or months or year, bad stuff, good stuff, whatever, um, how fast we bounce back from defeat matters. The most successful out people I’ve seen, right? They’re not going home and getting in the fetal position and saying, poor me, and, you know, crying about it. Now, they may be cry about it for a minute or two, but they’re gonna get back up, dust themselves off, and they’re gonna get back at it and figure out a way to get out of the, the crap that they’re in. Justin Su’a When I was with the Red Sox, with the minor leagues, I, uh, we were doing an example and I had a bouncy ball and I had a baseball, and I told ’em, Hey, which, which one is more resilient? Crickets, nobody answered, understandably so. It was a bad question. They didn’t know how to answer it. I said, okay, here’s a better question. Which one will bounce better when it’s dropped? From 50 feet up and they said, bouncy ball for sure. Now what if we had an egg and a bouncy ball? They’re like, oh, bouncy ball, for sure. And I said, the higher up we go, what’s gonna happen to the bounce of the bouncy ball? They’re like, it’s going to bounce back higher. I said, why? And they’re like, because what it’s made of, it’s made of rubber, it’s very resilient, it’s gonna bounce back. And then the question was are you, do you have the resilience of a bouncy ball or do you have the resilience of an egg or a baseball? And I loved what you said. And so we took, I gave every single player a bouncy ball to put in their locker as a signal. Hey, how fast are you bouncing back? And. Brett Gilliland I love that. Justin Su’a I think these tools, these to-, these mental tools that they’re building, that they’re using, all of these things you and I are discussing, is for the purpose of them to bounce back quicker. Brett Gilliland Yep. Justin Su’a Like to be be able to refocus faster, to be more resilient, to get your confidence back quicker, to whatever it may be, faster so that you can get back into the action so you’re not laying down and just feeling sorry for yourself. In computer engineering, the term is called refactoring. So what refactoring essentially is, essentially these, and I tell people, these athletes, they’re going to refocus. They’re, they’re resilient. They’re going to bounce back. But could we give them a tool to help them do it a little bit faster, a little bit quicker than they were before? And if we can do that, then that, that’s, that’s huge that, that helps so much. And so another thing as well is you are more likely to respond to adversity if you prepare yourself to respond to adversity. So a tool that we do, we call the bounce back plan, to go along with what you said is re-identify what are all the potential pitfalls that you’re going to run into. What are the things that you know over the course of your season, your day, your week are going to make you mad. A bad call from an umpire, Striking out three times in a row, having a bad game, getting demoted to AAA, like you just, all of these just put ’em down all down on paper. And then what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna write, uh, implementation intention. If this happens, then I’m gonna respond this way. When this happens, then I’m gonna respond this way so that we’re not running from it, so that we’re expecting it, and so that when that thing happens, all of a sudden they’re like, you know what? I was mentally prepared for this. I didn’t want this to happen, but you know what? I knew. I wrote down, this is how I’m going to respond. And where I learned this lesson was the military. For two years, two and a half years, I was with the soldiers of the US Army. And they planned for this. They planned for, okay, when your weapon gets stuck, this is what you’re going to do. When you. When your battle buddy is injured, this is how you are going to drag him outta battle or her outta battle. They literally prepare for worst case scenario so that when it happens, they’re amygdala, they don’t, they don’t freeze. They’re shocked, they’re prepared, they’re ready. They think to themselves, I have literally trained for this adversity. Uh, I heard stories of Michael Phelps and his coach, he would train in the dark, he would train with no goggles. He would train with foggy goggles and keep swimming because if this happens in the Olympics, we prepared for this and it’s not gonna catch us off guard. And I think that’s something that a lot of people, uh, don’t, I think it’s intuitive, but we don’t practice it. How are you going to respond when these friction pieces or these obstacles present themselves. Brett Gilliland Yeah, that’s so strong gosh dang, that’s so strong. I wrote that down to write it down. And then how are we gonna get out of it, basically, in a sense. And so to think about the power of visualization, so many times we think about, oh, I visualize myself doing this in a positive way, but that negative way, and it, it’s goofy, but it’s, it’s kind of true. I, I have a, I’m kind of superstitious and so I, I hit like I play a lot of golf and when I warm up, I have same sand wedge as my 52 degree wedge, my seven iron and my driver. That’s the three clubs I hit when I go to the driving range before a round. But I always hit four golf balls out of a divot. And it’s like, you know, you’re obviously, you’re playing the ball down and so therefore, what if it happens, man, I wanna be prepared for it. So I know that feeling when my ball comes out of a divot. And it’s just like what you’re talking about for this, I think that’s a strong, I mean a really strong exercise for people to do. Write down all the things that can happen and then write down, because now you’ve been there. Justin Su’a I really like what you, I want to really highlight what you just said about visualization. A lot of us, when we say visualize, we visualize, or a word I’ve heard people say is, man-, try to manifest outcomes. Visualize the house, visualize closing the deal. Visualize success. Now, now the problem, the, the, the problem with that is when, Mike Tyson said it like the, the, the famous philosopher, Mike Tyson, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. Brett Gilliland That’s right. That’s right. Justin Su’a Now, what are you going to do if you only visualize the good when adversity strikes? You’re gonna panic because that didn’t align with your visualization. One thing that’s also beneficial is visualize yourself overcoming adversity. Visualize yourself hitting a nice a, a shot out of the divot. Visualize yourself how you’re going to respond after a strikeout. You’re gonna strike out. Don’t be like, no, I’m not gonna strike out. You’re going to strike out. How do you visualize yourself? How are you going to respond? To this difficult conversation. So let’s say you’re about to have this, give this very difficult feedback to somebody. Very hard phone call conversation you’re gonna have. You also wanna anticipate what is the worst case? What is it gonna look like? When he or she does not receive this feedback well, if they, what is the worst case scenario? How am I going to respond to this? We also have to attribute or prepare for that because you are more likely to respond effectively if you prepare for worst case scenario. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a And I think sometimes people are afraid to, they don’t wanna, no, no, I don’t want to consider that. I don’t want to put that bad juju out there. It’s like, well, then you’re gonna struggle when, when adversity strikes. Brett Gilliland So let’s, let’s turn the page now, because I know how important your family is, man. Let’s, let’s brag about these kids you’ve got, your, your, your children are all doing amazing things, but they, uh, some of ’em making it on the big screen, man. And. Justin Su’a It’s, it has been such a whirlwind, uh, to, for those who aren’t familiar, so yeah, my, my youngest daughter, 14 year old in 2019, she played the Rock’s daughter in his movie Hobbs and Shaw. Right now she is the star of a new Disney TV show that’s coming out. Uh, we’re here in Los Angeles. She’s shooting, um, my son just released his album. Um, he was, he was in the studio doing things with Drake. Uh, he just received a top, he’s 16 years old and he has his career. He’s signed, it’s, it’s a career where, uh, they, he has his agent and his manager, my daughter as well. And then my other daughter, Maya. She’s, she’s awesome. She’s doing, she’s doing wonderful things, but it’s, um, we’re really just trying to figure this out. We’re, we’re trying to. Since they were younger, trying to help them just identify, Hey, what do you love to do? Uh, don’t wanna answer the question, what do you want to, what do you wanna do when you grow up? We ask, what do you wanna do right now? Okay. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a And just do it the best you possibly can. And another thing as well is, is we talk about often at the dinner table, is when you wanna pursue greatness the odds are against you, like the odds of Eliana, the odds that you are going to be a movie star and, and be with The Rock and Ryan Reynolds and Kevin Hart are less than 1%. Just so you know that the odds that you are going to be a star on the Disney show, less than 1%. Jerem our son, if you’re gonna be in the billboards, the odds are less than 1%. But my, look me in the eyes, do you love this? Yes. I love this. Okay, great. Do it cause you love it. Do okay. Don’t, don’t pursue the, the odds are against you. But if you love it and this is what you wanna do, all right, mom and dad will put you in a best position we can. And, but you need to love it and work it. And if you don’t wanna do this you don’t have to do this. We ask her. It’s we ask our daughter and our son. Do you still love this? Yes, I love it. Okay. You don’t, you don’t need this. You don’t have to do this. This doesn’t define you or doesn’t, doesn’t define us as parents. Like, as long as you love it. And so we’ll see how, we’ll see what they do. Brett Gilliland It’s amazing. Justin Su’a We’ll see how far they go. But it’s been a fun ride so far. Brett Gilliland And you, you talk about that 1%. I mean, so we can, we’ll pick on that for a minute cause they’re not, I mean, to my knowledge, you guys are not, you know, all connected in the movie business and you don’t have a background in it. It’s not like, you know, you just, you, you pick up the phone and call a buddy and something happens. I mean, th- this is like, she went out and made this happen. Justin Su’a She was eight years old and we were watching tv. She’s like, I wanna be an actor. And we’re like, okay. Like we don’t know how to do that. We’re in this small little Bradenton, Florida, and it’s not the mecca of, we don’t, don’t know what we’re doing. So we get her an acting coach and we’re like, okay. Like, and, and they’re doing it and okay, we need to get her an agent. And we don’t have anyone, we don’t have any con- zero connections. We come to Los Angeles, she gets declined. Like so many nos. I can’t tell you how many nos. Brett Gilliland Wow. Justin Su’a And to the point to where we’re like, we should just, just quit like this. Like, you should just stop doing this because the you can’t do it. But she loved it. Like she loved it. We’re like, okay, all right. If you love it, like. Okay, fine. Like enjoy doing coaching cause you’re not gonna be in, you’re not, you’re not getting movies, you’re not getting commercials, you’re not on stage, you’re not doing, but you love it. And then she, she got a yes after a 200 something nos, okay, that’ll get us to the next thing and that’ll get us to the next thing. And she just continued to love it. And a lot of tears, a lot of, a lot of, no. Way more. She’s, she’s, I think if, I think 315 nos in her career, like big role. And she’s gotten like three yeses, like three yeses. And we thought her role with The Rock was gonna open all these doors. And. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a It was, it wasn’t nearly what we thought it was going to be to be. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Justin Su’a Completely honest. Um, but yeah, even, even after that, she got, most of her nos came after her role with The Rock. Most of her nos came after that. And then, um, an. Brett Gilliland Amazing man. Justin Su’a Guest with Disney and yeah. And so it’s been, uh, my, our son as well. Our son as well. He’s, he, he is just kind of been in his own, just on his computer, just making beats and people, they just have loved the craft. They love doing it, and they just got better and better and better. And so. Brett Gilliland I love it. Justin Su’a We’ll see. We’ll see where it goes. Brett Gilliland Well, we’ll keep watching it, man. It’s been awesome, uh, having you again on the Circuit of Success. Uh, tell our listeners where to find more of, uh, of you. Justin Su’a Yeah, so, uh, any, uh, uh, Twitter, Instagram, Justin Sua, j u s t i n s u a. That’s usually where I put, put all of my stuff. And, uh, yeah, looking forward to reconnecting with anyone. Brett Gilliland It’s a, uh, it’s a great follow. I will tell you that, man, you can always, uh, put stuff on there on point, you know, very direct, very helpful. Uh, I’m a big fan of it. Always love seeing it and, uh, just keep doing what you’re doing, man. Always appreciate you. Justin Su’a Thanks so much, Brett. Likewise. Thank you.

Bob Burg shares how a subtle shift in focus is not only a more uplifting and fulfilling way of conducting business but the most financially profitable way, as well. For 30 years he’s helped companies, sales leaders, and their teams to communicate their value, sells at higher prices with less resistance, and grow their businesses based on Endless Referrals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoMAL9ITeZk Brett Gilliland Welcome to The Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilliland and I’m fired up today because I’ve got Bob Burg with me. Bob, how you doing? Bob Burg Great. I’m fired up to be with you. Thank you for having me. Brett Gilliland Awesome. Hey, we got great taste already. I can tell. We got the same microphones. Bob Burg That’s right, . There’s nothing but the best here, right? Brett Gilliland I mean, these are great mics. Great mics, but, uh, well, you have, you’ve probably seen this book before. For those of you watching, you can see it. For those of you not watching, you’re listening. I’m, I’m holding up the book, the Go Giver, A little story about a powerful business idea, uh, that Bob wrote and was co-author of, and it’s a phenomenal book. I read this, I’m not just saying that because you’re on the show. That’s why I reached out to you to have you on the show, because I read the book . Loved it. And, uh, highly recommend it to those, uh, to those avid readers like you obviously are. So, uh, Bob, before we dive into all that stuff, you’re obviously a thought leader, a speaker, an author, uh, but if you can just give us a little lay of the land, what’s made you the man you are today and, and what’s cutting you under this, uh, under this, uh, the, the level of your success. Bob Burg Well, I was very fortunate to be brought up by fantastic parents, so I think that’s always a, uh, an, an amazing advantage when you have that. And, uh, you know, I got into sales at a, a pretty young age, mid twenties, and, uh, began to grow from there. I learned and studied sales, which led to studying personal development because that’s such an important part of it. You know, we, we know that. Uh, you know, success is built from the inside out, right? We build ourselves and then it, and it sort of manifests itself outwardly. So I, I really love that. And after, you know, after some time of working my way up, eventually to sales manager of a company, I began teaching others, or I was asked to, to, to come in and speak to some other sales groups. I thought, wow, this is pretty cool. You know, maybe I could kind of do a business, uh, like that. And, and, uh, learned how to do that. Joined National Speakers Association and learned how to, to have a professional speaking practice. And from there I’ve just, you know, I’ve been very, very fortunate to do this for quite a while now. Brett Gilliland That’s great. So what, what made you write the book? Like were you, what, what stage of your career were you in, uh, when you wrote this ? Well, I know you’ve written multiple books, but specifically, you know, the Go Giver. Bob Burg Yeah, so, so it, it kind of starts back in the, the mid nineties when I had a book out called Endless Referrals and the subtitle was, Network Your Everyday Contacts Into Sales. And it was a, it was a how to book, um, on really showing entrepeneurs and sales people who knew they had a great product or service, they believed in what they did. They know they brought phenomenal value to those they serve, but they maybe didn’t feel confident or comfortable going out into their, their local areas and developing the kinds of relationships with people where people would want to do business with them directly and or refer them to others. So endless referrals was a system. Um, what is a system? Well, it’s, it’s basically the process of predictably achieving a goal based on a logical and specific set of how to principles, right? Uh, if it’s been proven that by doing a you’ll get the desired result of B, then you know that all you need to do is A, and continue to do A, and you’ll get the desired result of B. That’s what endless referrals was. It’s basic premise was that all things being equal people will do business with and refer business to those people they know, like, and trust. And so that was sort of my first big book. Now, Through the years though, I’d always read business parables and whether it was a long form one such as OG Mandino’s Greatest Salesman in the World, or Class’s Richest Man in Babylon, or you know, all the, the Great Par Blanchard and Johnson’s one Minute series and throughout the years, and they were always so many fantastic ones and I always loved reading them because stories I think we all know connect on a, an even deeper level, right. And I thought, wouldn’t it be great if we could take that basic premise to know, like, and trust and turn that into a story? And, uh, so I was lucky enough that I, that my editor in chief at a magazine I used to write for, uh, John David Mann was, had already had a reputation within his niche as a brilliant, brilliant writer, author, storyteller. And, uh, and I asked him if he would get together with me on this idea that I had. And I, it was a roughly sketched out idea for the Go Giver. It certainly had not been developed, but he’s a great writer. I’m, you know, I’m, I’m a how to guy. I’m step step three. John’s a magnificent storyteller. So, you know, we collaborated on, and that’s really how the Go Giver started that. Brett Gilliland That’s great. Bob Burg You know, at the end of the very end of 2007, so effectively 2000. From there. Love it. Brett Gilliland So let, let’s talk about the, kinda the concept of the Go Giver. You know, I think most of the times, especially on, you know, in the world we live in today, it’s all about the go-getter. And, uh, but in your, in your book, in this book, um, you, you paint a better picture of being the Go Giver as your first priority. So instead of the go-getter, let’s be the Go Giver, hence the name of the book. Um, so let’s kind of set the, the stage for that. What’s that mean? Bob Burg So let’s, let’s take it even a little deeper if we can. Brett Gilliland Okay. Bob Burg You know, it always comes back to how we define terms of course, right? Brett Gilliland Absolutely. Bob Burg If you look at a go-getter as someone who’s just focused on the getting, yeah, the go-getter wouldn’t be, but what if we look at a go-getter as just someone who takes action right now? We love that. We love people who take action, right? Because, you know, you are, you’ve built a, a huge financial services investment practice. And, and yeah, you know that you can have the greatest ideas, the best thoughts, the greatest of intent. But unless action’s put into the mix, nothing’s gonna happen. So we, we want people to be go getters, people of action and go givers. Now a go giver is simply someone who understands that shifting their focus. And this is where this is the key. Shifting their focus from getting to giving is, uh, and in this case, when we say giving, we simply mean constantly and consistently providing immense value to others. Understanding that doing so is not only a more pleasant way of conducting. It’s actually the most financially profitable way as well. Not for some kind of way out there, woo, woo, magical, mystical reasons. Not at all. It’s actually very logical, very rational. When you are that person, Brett, who can take your focus off yourself and instead place it on serving others, discovering what they need, what they want, what they desire when you can move off of yourself and focus on helping people solve their challenges, helping to bring them closer to happiness. People feel good about it, they feel great about you. They wanna get to know you. They like you, they trust you. They want to be in relationship with with you. So, so it just is very natural now. So we would say this, be a go-getter and a go-giver, but don’t be a go taker Brett Gilliland . That’s strong. Bob Burg The go taker, that’s the person whose focus is just on the take. Right? And it’s, it’s, you know, take, take, take without having to add val- without thinking. They have to add value to the person, to the process, to the the situation. And. They, they go takers tend to be very frustrated because they rarely achieve the kind of real massive success that they believe they deserve. But even when they do, and they do sometimes, uh, it tends to not be very sustainable. Brett Gilliland Mm-hmm. Bob Burg Built on a foundation that that is very, you know, practical. Not that they can’t keep doing it, but boy, isn’t it a tough way to make a living Brett Gilliland . Yeah. Bob Burg Competing that Brett. Right. And so, uh, so yeah, so we would say, you know, when you combine go getter and go giver, stay away from go taker. Now you’ve got, now you’ve really got a situation where you’re, where you are in a, where you’re in a position to bring some immense value to others. And remember, and I think this is so key, I I often say this when I’m, I’m speaking at a sales conference, it’s the first thing I’ll say, and that is, nobody’s gonna buy it from you because you have a quota to me. Brett Gilliland Yeah. No kidding. Right. Bob Burg Right. They’re not gonna buy from you cause you need the money or even because you’re really a nice person. Brett Gilliland Nor are they really gonna give a rep. Bob Burg Right, exactly. They’re gonna buy from you only because they believe that they will be better off by doing so than by not doing so. And that’s great. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg Because. It means if you have a heart for serving others, you very naturally wanna bring the best you can to another human being. And, and that, you know, creates that environment for that know, like, and trust to occur and the business to take place. Brett Gilliland Yeah, I love that. And I love the fact that you mentioned the action part. That’s one of the circuits of the Circuit of Success is action, right? People are like, you know, you can sit around. You know, think about it, pray for it, it’s gonna happen. But you know, you still take action. You still gotta go do it. And I love the fact that you don’t skip out on that point of just saying, oh, give, give, give, give, give. Um, because you do even to give, right? Whether it’s your, your time, your talent, your treasures, you still have to take action, right? I still gotta show up to that event. Bob Burg Right. Brett Gilliland I still gotta have it in my heart to write that check. So my question for you on this go-giver part, cause I, I gave a speech, uh, maybe two or three weeks ago, and there was a group of young professionals there and this, this guy in his low twenties asked me, you know, what advice would you have now looking back after two decades for somebody in a, in a position like his? And I said, take the meeting. Take the meeting. I think so many times now in our world, people are like, well, what am I gonna get paid for this? Or what am I gonna get paid for that? And well, my time is worth X, I’ve spent a whole career, I’ve gone and done a million things for free, right? It doesn’t mean you don’t wanna get paid for your time, but I also believe go trust, have faith that good things can happen when you get out there. And my belief is that’s probably what you mean by those endless referrals. And that’s what’s happened for me over two decades is to get referrals and build a business like that because you just go and you give and you have no concept of what’s coming back for you. Bob Burg Uh, a lot of times you don’t, I say giving without attachment to the results, and because I expect good things all the time, you know? Brett Gilliland Yeah, yeah. Bob Burg But, but, but you have to do it without attachment. And, and it doesn’t mean we’re not strategic. It doesn’t mean we certainly don’t have a, you know, maybe a niche market that we’re, uh, pursuing and that we’re creating those relationships and so forth. It just means you leave yourself open. And, um, now I, I do wanna say one thing cause this, this brings up a question with a lot of people. Only I think because of the name Go Giver or, or title. And that is, well, can you be taken advantage of if you do that? And, and it’s a good question and, and it’s a human question to ask. And the answer is yes, anyone can be taken advantage of. Brett Gilliland Sure. Bob Burg Cause that happens in life sometimes. But if you do, if you find yourself. Not you, but I mean, if a person finds out, Brett Gilliland Yeah, collectively. Bob Burg In a pattern of being taken advantage of by others, and I don’t mean once or twice or every so often, it’s gonna happen if you’re human, right? Unless you stay in the home and never leave. But I’m talking about a pattern of being taken advantage of. It’s not because you’re nice or because you’re a giving person. It’s because you’re doing things in a certain way that creates the environment for you to be taken advantage of. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg And, and, you know, and, and if that’s, if that’s you, my, my response is, congratulations for realizing it and acknowledging it. Okay. Because you can go a whole life having things happen. And if you never give it the conscious thought and ask why, well, you keep repeating the same patterns. Brett Gilliland Yep. Bob Burg So if someone understands that this happens, then it’s a matter of asking. Okay. What is it that I’m doing or how do I feel about myself or you know, what is this reason that this thing keeps happening? Whereas other people do all these great things and go out there and put themselves out, and not only do they not get taken advantage of, great things seem to come back to them all the time. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg So we always have to go deeper and check our premises and, and understand why these things are happening and, and it’s always unconscious. It’s always something we’re setting ourselves up for, whether it’s worthiness issues, whether it’s not having the tools to know how to say no when it’s appropriate to do so, and how to do it tactfully and kindly. Whether it’s, uh, uh, getting a payoff of, of being the victim and having people feel sorry for, you know, different people have different reasons for doing different things. You know, if you ever read the 1960s book, uh, was published in 1960, written by Maxwell Malts called Psycho Cybernetics. Beautiful book, and he talked about how our belief system, which is unconscious by, by its very nature, our unconscious belief system absolutely drives our thoughts, our words, our actions, and we’re not even aware of it until we make the con, the unconscious conscious. Brett Gilliland Conscious. Yeah. And it’s so true. I mean, it’s where I was actually gonna go next, so you lead me right into it is, is so there’s attitude, your belief system, your actions ultimately get you the results. That’s, that’s the circuits of success I’ve talked about for so long. Bob Burg Sure. Brett Gilliland Um, but I think the, to the, your point is the beliefs conscious or unconscious, they do lead you in that direction. So my question would be, For that man or woman listening this now that may be younger in their career and they say, yeah, it’s easy to say go give now Brett, or go give now Bob because you guys have become successful and you’ve done it. But what? What did you do early in your career or for the person that may still not be young, young in age, but they’re young in their new business, they’ve started and they’re like, gosh, I need this sale, right? I need to sell that widget so I can pay my mortgage next month. What advice do you have for them? Bob Burg Wonderful question and. Basically the, the, the question comes down to, yeah, this go giver stuff sounds really nice and, you know, once I have the money and don’t really need the business that much, then I’ll focus on others and do all that. Brett Gilliland Right? Bob Burg You know, that great stuff. So there’s a false premise at work here, and that false premise is that you’re actually going to, to sell more, that you’re gonna sell better, that you’re gonna have more people wanting to do business with you because you’re thinking about yourself and. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg And it’s just not right. It’s just not true. Okay. So I, you know, so I would take a person through this exercise. Let’s say you are the prospect and I’m the salesperson, and I need the money, or I’m just starting out. Brett Gilliland Gotta have it. Yep. Bob Burg Gotta have that money. I need that money. I get, okay, so I’m gonna go in there and, and, and, and that’s my goal is to, to, to transfer your, the money from your pocket to mine is basically what it comes down to. Brett Gilliland Yep. Bob Burg Which I think comes across on a, on some level to that person is doing it. And that when I was younger, we used to call that commission breath. Brett Gilliland That’s literally what I was getting ready to say. We called it that same thing. We probably got it from you. Bob Burg And so, but, uh, so I’m gonna go in there, I’m gonna ask some questions, which I’ve been trained to ask because that’s how, how you, you do it. But I’m not really listening to understand what Brett needs, wants and desires. I’m listening so that I can have enough information to sharp angle you into a close. And get your money. Okay. Um, I’m going to, I, I’m, when you have an objection, um, I’m gonna be a little defensive about it probably because that your objection standing in the way of this money that I need. So yeah, I’m gonna go through the standard answers of the objections and again, try to sharp angle you and, and overcome the objection. Right. But you know, that’s, there’s sort of that attitude to it. I’m gonna be closing early and I’m gonna be closing often because I need money. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg And, and, and so at the end of this sales conversation, I would ask the question, are you gonna be more likely, all things being equal, more likely or less likely to buy from me right now? And I would say probably less likely. So now let’s take another situation. I’m the same person. I need the money. Okay. But, but here’s what I’m gonna do now. First, I’m not gonna deny self-interest because successful people live in truths. They don’t deny what’s true. Brett Gilliland Yep. Bob Burg Uh, they don’t get stuck on it. They utilize it in order to propel forward, but they acknowledge truths. And by the way, we’re all self-interested because that’s how our cave person ancestors created more generations to, you know, to Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg Right. So, so we’re self interest, but what I’m gonna do, Brett, is rather than act on this self-interest, I am going to to temporarily suspend my self-interest so that I can put my focus totally on you. All right, so now I’m gonna ask questions, but I’m not just asking questions. I’m now really listening. I’m listening with my entire posture, my body. I’m, uh, and when you answer, I’m not assuming I know what you mean, cause I realize we come from different belief systems. I realize I’m not my customer and what I find to be of value may not be what they find to be of value. So I gently and tactfully ask clarifying questions to make sure that I understand exactly what you need, what you want, what you desire. That I can provide insights. It’s gonna help you strengthen areas. Where you’re weak that you might not even know about, and and, and be able to leverage strong areas that you may not even know about. Once, only once I totally know that I know your desires. Am I gonna connect the benefits of my product or service with? What you are looking to accomplish. When you have an objection, I’m gonna welcome that objection and rather than give some standard answer, we’re going to together work within the, the context of the objection in order to understand the root of it and where it’s really coming from, and we’re gonna work through it together to advance the sale. Brett Gilliland Yep. Bob Burg And Brett, by the time I ask you to take action, You’re, you’re simply choosing to take action on something you’ve already told me that you want to do. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg Mainly you know that I have your wellbeing at heart. Now the question again, all things being equal, are you more likely or less likely to buy from me than you were from the other? Brett Gilliland Yeah, a hundred percent more likely. And I think the key there is I would say ADT ask don’t tell. It’s you asking great questions versus tell, well, if you tell me I need this thing, you need this ink pen, Bob, you need this ink pen. Versus asking me why I would need an ink pen and what that would do. I think that’s a key concept right there. Bob Burg And when you’re desperate, you tell. Brett Gilliland Yeah, you’re right. Bob Burg And so that’s, that’s what I would say to that person that understand that by focusing on the money, you are much less likely for that sale to take to take place. John David Mann, and I say this, okay, money is simply an echo of value. Money is an echo of value. It’s the funder, if you will, to the value of lightning. John said that he’s much more poetic than I am. Right? And what it really means, what it comes down to, Brett, is this. That the, the, your focus must be on the value you’re providing that person, the money you receive is simply a natural result of the value you provided. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Yeah. Couldn’t agree more. Couldn’t agree more. Bob. So let’s, let’s talk about, um, Your craft, right? I mean, you, you’ve done this for a long time and, and whether it’s writing books, speaking, coaching, whatever you’re doing, how much time are you spending working on your craft, so working on you versus necessarily being in the weeds, working on a, a certain project for maybe a client. How much work are you doing on yourself? Bob Burg Much more on myself because there’s so much I have to still work. I, you know, I’m 64. I’ll be 65 pretty soon, Brent. Brett Gilliland Okay. Bob Burg I’ll tell you, the older I get, the more I know how much I still need to, to work on. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg You know, and I, and I, I just think it, it, it’s so important. Brett Gilliland Um, but isn’t that amazing? Cause most would think you’ve got it figured out, right? I’m 64 years old, I’m successful, I’m this and that. This guy’s got it figured out, but we’re all still working on it together. Bob Burg Yeah, exactly. And, and I, I think it’s, you know, I think, and this was the best thing that happened to me when I got in sales. It wasn’t just the sales teaching. I started studied, you know, I got books by, and this is again, back in. Mid eighties I think, and I, I got books by Tom Hopkins and Zig Ziglar and I started out Brian Trade, you know, all these icons. I mean just wonderful, fantastic teachers and amazing. And that was great and it helped me a lot. But the best things they told me also was that I had to read other books. And I had to read the How to Win Friends and Influence People. I had to read The Magic of Thinking Big. I had to read Thinking Grow Rich. I had to re, you know, um, Brett Gilliland Let me interrupt for those listing right there. Go rewind this 15 seconds and, and write down every book you just mentioned. They’re all phenomenal. Bob Burg Thank you. I’ll tell you another one too, please. I just, for those watching on the screen, I just moved my microphone and reach for another book, uh, one of the greatest books too. And another one that I just think is a must read. I didn’t learn about this one until maybe 2003 or something. Um, but the, uh, the Science of Getting Rich by Wallace D. Wattles, uh, it was written in 1910. Um, they just did a, a retro version, they call it, and this is actually his original writing. So a a lot of people have, because the copyright ran out, a lot of people redid the book and put their own things, which is okay. Okay. But I always like the original. And so this retro version that you can see on at Amazon, uh, is, is the best one to get written in 1910. And yeah, while his focus, when he, where he does talk about getting rich in terms of financial, it’s, it’s all areas of life. You, you can’t really excel in one without it carrying over in a, in a sense, when they’re principle based universal laws. So when we talk about success, we’re talking about sure financial, but also physical, spiritual, mentally, emotional, relational, social, you know, what have you. And this is a, I probably read this book 35, 40 times. It’s very, it’s very short, And it just has such magnificent information, you know, but, but you have, uh, um, you know, books like, um, gosh, uh, one of the best of all is a book written in, in, uh, I think this is written in 1906. It’s called Peace, Power, and Plenty by Morrison Sweat Martin, he was actually the founder of Success Magazine. And, and many people, uh, consider him the father of the modern day personal development movement. Uh, not, you know, I couldn’t even, this is a original edition. I couldn’t even write it. I, I had to just do the, you know, write on the, uh, uh, little yellow sticky notes. But, you know, you, you think about it, the title piece, and he’s talking about inner peace, power, which is the power over oneself, not over others. Okay, but power over one’s self, the ability to master one’s emotions. Yeah. And, and it is just so, and then plenty, which is what prosperity you’ve got Brett Gilliland That’s solid. Bob Burg On every page is a gem. And it has. So, you know, I, I think when we, when we look at, at, at continuing to develop ourselves, uh, you know, we can never go wrong. Right. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg Because there’s so much fantastic information out there. Brett Gilliland Yeah. That’s incredible. So let’s talk about that. I, I, you hear that all the time, the chicken or the egg, right? Which is it the chicken or the egg? And, and which comes first, but you know, in your book you talk about the, typically the more successful people, and I’m reading this from the book, I can’t remember what page it’s on, but it says, typically the more successful people are, the more they’re willing to share their secrets with others. Right. And I used quotes over secrets. Cause really there is no secret. There’s no secret. Right. Bob Burg That was, that was for, uh, what do you call it when you take writers? Uh, you know, when you’re being more, uh, I can’t even think of the, the where, but we, there’s no secret. Brett Gilliland It’s no, absolutely. But, but again, my chicken, the egg concept is, is because it is, is the person that’s willing to share. Bob Burg Yeah. Brett Gilliland Are they successful because they’re willing to share or are they successful, therefore they’re willing to share? I, I have my philosophy, so I’d love to know yours. Bob Burg Yeah. My mine is, and I’m not sure which is the chicken or which is the egg part, but Brett Gilliland exactly Bob Burg how a person is that that dictates what they do. So, you know, when we talk about somebody who, uh, let’s say somebody gives a lot to charity, okay. Typically, they were giving to charity when they were making almost nothing. Brett Gilliland Yep. Okay. Bob Burg Very rarely is there somebody who, who’s not charitable, uh, all of a sudden has a successful business and they’re making millions and millions, and then all of a sudden they become very charitable. You know, and very rarely, unless they’re doing this show offer for some ulterior, Brett Gilliland right. Bob Burg No. Typically, you know, money just makes us more of what we already are. And so, um, yeah, so someone who has a giving spirit and a giving name, that’s how they built their business. And, and, and so it’s that person who, and this goes back to that young person you’re talking about, who’s or that person even who’s young in their, their new career who says, well, I’ve gotta get something going. I’ve gotta get something started. Okay, good. Find a way to bring value to others. Yeah. Both your direct marketplace, but also everyone else. Okay. And because everything connects in some way. Yeah. And so find ways, discover and also understand that what you believe to be of value isn’t necessarily what they believe to be. Value is value, you know, which is different than price, right? Price is a dollar amount. So, but value is the relative work or desirability of a thing, of something to the end user or beholden. Yeah. Uh, what is it about this thing, this product, this service, this concept, this idea. That brings so much work to someone that they will willingly exchange their, whether it’s money, time, energy, friendship, what you know, what have you for this, right? Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg Both people come out way ahead. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg But it’s always, the value’s always in the eyes of the behold. So it’s not what we think is the value or what we think they should think of about, and that’s why it’s so important, as you talked about earlier, to ask questions and listen. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg We can’t know cause we’re not them. Brett Gilliland Yeah. And I think there’s just something about giving back. I mean, I’ve been around tons of people that are like, eh, I’m not gonna tell this part of my process or this part, you know, the, the scarcity mentality of I know this one thing on how I sell this widget. Right? But then they don’t share it. And I just, I don’t think that’s the, the abundance mentalitywe’re looking for. Just a few more things here, um, for you. Uh, you know, I think we all, we all know this, right? What we focus on, we get what we focus on, expands all those things, no matter how you say it. What, when I, if I were to follow you around every day, what am I, what am I watching Bob focus on daily without miss? Bob Burg Um, I think that generally, Brett, what I try to do is make people feel encouraged, make people feel genuinely good about themselves. I, I picked that up from my dad. I, I consider myself carrying on my dad’s legacy. That’s what he did so well. Right? And, um, and so I, I think that’s kind of where, you know, where, where I am. Um, you know, but again, when I do something like that, I’m doing it for selfish reasons and that reason is I feel good about myself. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg Right? So, you know, I have a this, this saying, you know, when I define happiness, right? And you know, happiness by dictionary definition is the mental feeling of wellbeing. And I think that works. It’s a good definition, but I go a little deep. I say that happiness is a genuine and ongoing feeling of joy and peace of mind. The result of living congruently with one’s values. So if you value a certain thing, so you know, you, you helped a lot of people invest and, and, and you’ve done very well by helping people do that. But when you help someone and you know that you have really helped them to take care of their financial future, to be able to leave a legacy for their kids or for charities or to, to have a life where they don’t have to be in worry all the time and you do those Yeah, you feel good, you’re, that’s selfish. Not the money you’re making. Brett Gilliland Right. Bob Burg Okay. That’s a great thing, but that’s not why you do it. You do it cause it’s congruent with your values. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg You feel good about yourself when you do that. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Bob Burg That’s what it’s all about. Brett Gilliland Yeah, you’re right. I mean, we talk about that here at our firm, Visionary Wealth Advisors, that that vision aligned and values aligned. If, if those two things aren’t congruent, even if it was, if I was trying to hire you. Right? As a, as an advisor at Visionary, if our vision and values are not aligned, it’s never gonna work. Right? It’s gonna be oil and water. I, I always say our vision and our values are like a magnet. I, I remember my kids trains when they were little, right? The magnet either connects, or it repels, right? You try to connect it and it just won’t do it. And if our vision and values are connected and aligned, they’re gonna connect and they’re gonna do very well. We’re gonna have an interdependent relationship. That’s what works in life, in anything. Right. Um, what, what would you tell yourself if you, what you know now to be true, but maybe you didn’t know it on the climb, right? That journey, whether you were in your thirties, your forties, whatever. What do you know now to be true that you didn’t know at the time? Bob Burg I’d probably go back to my early twenties and I, I and older, more mature Burg would tell young Burg first, shut up. Stop talking because you don’t know anything near what you think, you know. And then to paraphrase that, great saying that it’s, it’s credited to Mark Twain. I don’t know that Mark Twain actually said it, but it’s brilliant. So it sounds pointy and you know, we credit things to Mark Twain. But the, the apparently he said it ain’t, it ain’t what you, what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you’re absolutely sure you do know that just ain’t so. That was me. I absolutely thought I had it figured out. I absolutely thought I understand human, I understand how things work. I get this world. I know it. I, there was so much I, I did. Brett Gilliland Yeah. What, what are you doing to be a student of the game? Like for me, I, I jokingly call this, but I’m really serious too, is this is my weekly therapy. I get to learn from, you know, experts all over the world, uh, like yourself. But what do you do to be a student of the game, uh, to keep working on your craft? Bob Burg Uh, I constantly read, constantly discuss, uh, you know, it’s funny, we have a a, a, um, a online, uh, Go Giver community, and part of that is a Master Mind group called the Go Giver Success Alliance and we’ve got these really successful people that, that, you know, take part in this every, every Wednesday at Rachel’s famous coffee cafe with Rachel’s from the book, right? Brett Gilliland Yeah. Right. Bob Burg There’s so many great people on there, and people think I’m, you know, no, it’s not, it’s not me teaching, it’s everybody learning from one another. And I mean, it just charges my batteries. I come away from that thing and it’s like, holy cow. That was great because I learned this from Jeff West who was like one of the leading Aflac leaders in the, you know, in the world. And I learned this from, you know, this person who was a great realtor at this that, and I learned this from so and so, you know, and so that, that to me, uh, I get to just learn from all these, these other people. Brett Gilliland That’s awesome. Great. So who you surround yourself with matters. Right? Um, so Bob where can our listeners find more of you? I know you’ve got a website, uh, you wanna share that? Bob Burg Yeah. You know, I’m, I’m a pretty simple guy and my, my name is spelled b u r g and that’s actually my website, burg.com Brett Gilliland burg.com. B u r g.com. Are you on social media at all? Bob Burg Oh, yeah. I’m, you know, I’m, I was gonna say everywhere, but that’s not true because there’s now it’s like all these different things. Brett Gilliland Right. Bob Burg It’s probably, you know, LinkedIn, Twitter, but LinkedIn is probably the best place to. Brett Gilliland Awesome. We’ll put all the stuff in the show notes for our listeners. Uh, tons of takeaways for me. We didn’t even get to the five Laws of Stratospheric Success, but the law of value. The law of compensation, the law of influence, authenticity, and receptivity. Right. Those are five amazing things. If you’re watching, go pick up this little red book right here called The Go Giver. It’s phenomenal. You’ll love it. And Bob, it’s been great having you on the Circuit of Success. Bob Burg Ah, it’s been a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

Holly’s heavy involvement in numerous sports over the years, combined with a strong interest in health and wellbeing and extensive research in the field of nutritional sciences, has lead her to extend her skill set to the fitness industry where she educates others as well as actively coaching fitness/physique athletes and body building. Brett Gilliand Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’ve got Holly Baxter with me. Holly, how you doing? Holly Baxter I am doing fantastic. Thank you for asking. Brett Gilliand Awesome. And you are in beautiful Tampa, Florida. Holly Baxter Mm-hmm. Yes. It has actually just gotten a little bit cool here. And when I say cool still in the sixties, but everyone’s got like 15 layers on. You know how the [inaudible] Brett Gilliand ? Oh yeah. That’s funny. Yeah, it’s uh, it was 25 degrees when I woke up this morning here, so, I’m not feeling bad for anybody down in Tampa, Florida, 60 degrees. You know? Holly Baxter I, I wouldn’t either, I wouldn’t believe that. Brett Gilliand Yeah. But I’m, uh, supposed to be like 55 to 58 degrees on Wednesday, so that’s a big deal for us here, so we’re excited about that. So. Well, if you can, Holly, we will, uh, we’ll dive in. But you are a, a clinical dietician, a fitness coach, a trainer, an author. All sorts of stuff you’re doing. It’s amazing what you’ve built, um, in, in a, in a bodybuilder. You’ve won like lots of, uh, tournaments with body building, which is amazing. We’ll talk about that, but if you can maybe give us a little lay of the land on what’s made you the person you are today and, and, uh, gotten to this level. Holly Baxter Yeah, so I guess my role right now is, uh, somebody that’s in like the nutrition, exercise, science space. So I would call myself, uh, like a nutrition or an exercise educator. So, um, my day-to-day role, um, is extremely diverse. There’s a lot of things, um, that are going on. Um, Oh my gosh, my phone is just blowing up. Sorry. It’s mentally insult. Let me start that again. Um, so my role at the moment is, uh, extremely diverse. So I still do a couple of days where I’m practicing. Um, then there are going to be other days where I’m working on writing content, I’m putting together seminars and presentations, all that kind of thing. Um, and then also working on, uh, I. Coaching team. We have a nutrition app, we’ve got a whole host of things going on, so. Brett Gilliand That’s amazing. Holly Baxter Um, I guess the way that I got there, um, is quite interesting actually. So I grew up in Tasmania, Australia, so it’s a pretty small town. Um, and I would say small mindset. And I think, you know, from a really young age actually, I just never felt like I fit in there. And, you know, everyone was kind of like, stay on the safe side. You know, don’t, don’t stand out. You know, you don’t wanna draw attention to yourself. You just wanna blend in. You wanna fit in with the form, fit in with the status quo. And I remember kind of thinking like, But that’s not me. Like, that’s my authentic self is so different to like the mindset of all the people that are around me. And I think I knew then that I wouldn’t be in Tasmania at least. So at the first opportunity I got, um, I, I jumped at, you know, getting the acceptance into, um, Deakin University, which is, it was like an hour and a half flight, but you go over water. So there’s separation from me and my family at this point. So, um, yeah, I took the academic route. I went into an undergraduate of food science and nutrition, so I did my B.S. in food science, nutrition, uh, and then I got done with that and was like, I still need to learn a lot more. Uh, went back and got my master’s in dietetics and that kind of, uh, exposed me to a lot of like athletes and, you know, elite fitness professionals. So, Um, how I got into body building was actually through the work that I was doing with clients. So, uh, you know, I was coaching them and helping with their nutrition and putting together their training. Um, and then, you know, someone said to me, Hey, you know, have you considered, uh, competing yourself? You know, you’re pretty athletic. Um, I know you used to do athletics and you grew up very sporty. Why not do it? So, Yeah, I kind of, I set my sights on that. I knew that the world championships that particular year was gonna be held in Dubai, so I’d always wanted to travel to Dubai. So that was actually my motivator. It was very extrinsic. There was nothing internal about body building that I really resonated with at the time. Um, so yeah, I had to go on and win as state and then a national championships in order to get to the worlds, which I did in my first year, which was awesome. Uh, and then I went and won the World Championships in Vice, so I’ve kind of stuck at it since then. Um, however, I will say it wasn’t a pretty, it wasn’t a pretty journey. It was not a glamorous one. I think behind the scenes. Um, you know, there was a lot of, um, like deep rooted insecurity, a lot of internal struggle. You know, I actually suffered from an eating disorder for about 15 years. Yeah. Um, and that was, uh, I guess related to just some of my upbringing, you know, the way that. Um, you know, I was raised and then some unfortunate, you know, traumatic experiences that I had as a, a young teenager. So, you know, there’s, there’s been the glamorous side that I think a lot of people saw for many years. You know, I appeared to be this extremely successful, you know, athlete. I’ve got, you know, my own business. I, on the surface it looked all cool, but I like underneath there was like a very hurt, very broken young woman and it actually took me about 15 years to really like step into my shoes and, you know, start working and healing through some of that trauma. And I think the work that I do now, um, in the online space is very much, um, you know, female focused. I really enjoy and I connect with women. Um, and a lot of it is to do with body positivity. It’s to do with um, you know, changing your mindset, working on your dysfunctional beliefs, dysfunctional thoughts. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter Um, and how that impacts your day-to-day behavior and how that impacts your habits and who you are as a person. So, yeah, there’s a lot of, you know, diet and exercise information that I can give because of my, you know, experience. Um, but then there’s also a lot of like psychology that I bring to the table, because you can’t, you can’t separate those things. Like Brett Gilliand . No. Holly Baxter We’re, we’re interconnected in a, a complex way with so many different things, um, that you can’t ignore, like the environmental influence that that has on our food choices and our day to day. You can’t ignore the social influences, the emotional influence, you know, so it’s, I really enjoy working with people and looking at them as a whole. And then, you know, kind of getting to the root problems that they’re limiting beliefs and then helping them to succeed. And it’s not just in their fitness. I really enjoy empowering people to achieve their best sense of self, and whether that’s in their business, in their relationships, in their, you know, family, life, finances, you know, I’m always looking to like, how can we help change your mindset so that you can succeed. Brett Gilliand I love that. I love that. So how, how do you get out of the 15 years of this, uh, trauma as you called it? I mean, how, how did you, just, what was the awareness for you to say, you know what, I gotta make a change and I gotta step out of that and get outta my comfort zone? Holly Baxter Yeah, again, I’m gonna say, uh, it wasn’t, uh, it’s not a pretty story. Um, I actually was, um, like clinically depressed. Um, I was at rock bottom. I had many suicidal thoughts. So this was only five years ago. Um, and I think. You know, I, I’d been there as a, as a teenager, I had actually, again, very like, traumatic. I had, you know, attempted suicide when I was very young. Um, so I’d always, you know, kind of lived with these memories and I think I’d gone through enough of my adulthood kind of masking, like, or detaching or distracting myself with, you know, hobbies or, you know, influence or. You know, I would try to do things that would bring me up, you know, that would make me feel better. But I, I, I never really tackled the root cause and, you know, I think by the time I got to my late twenties, I really had, I’d started to identify the, the behavior and it was like, okay, this is, this is a deep rooted problem within me that I need to fix. So, you know, I kind of had a bit of a, I don’t wanna say an epiphany, but I definitely had a come to Jesus moment and was like, you have a choice to make a change right now. You, you can either choose to be unhappy for the rest of your life and you’re gonna let all of these you know, historical events, clout your, your potential and who you are born and put on this earth to be. Or you can go and do something about it. And from that day on, I have had therapy, like mental, mental health counseling myself. Um, pretty consistently, I’d say for three and a half, four years now, I’ve probably missed like five sessions in a year. And it’s every week. And you know, now it’s not really getting myself out of that slump. It’s about preventative. Um, you know, I’m doing things that are proactively keeping me in this really positive state of mind. So lots of therapy, lots of reading, and obviously my science background. Yeah, I’m reading all the papers, I’m going to all the journals. Brett Gilliand Right. Holly Baxter Like, what works? How can I better myself? Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter So it, it had to come from within. Yeah. Brett Gilliand Yeah, I think that, I mean, that’s amazing. So one, I appreciate you sharing. Again, I always talk about transparency and vulnerability, and I think you’ve obviously been very transparent and very vulnerable here already in the first few minutes, and so I appreciate that. But what, what do you continually do now? Um, I, and I’m a guy that’s always dealt with anxiety, and so I don’t know if I can ever just say it’s gone like, right. It’s, it’s, Put to, it’s put in a box, taped up, put on a shelf, it’ll never come back. I would assume maybe you would agree with that is what, what will you continue to do? Uh, is it, is it the therapy? Is it stuff like that that you will continue to do throughout probably life? Holly Baxter Yeah. Absolutely. I, I would encourage anybody to get a therapist. It’s just so nice to have somebody with a non-bias. Um, you know, view that can look at your lifestyle. They can look at your, you know, your troubles or your, your, your wins without any kind of judgment or, you know, they’re not kind of, they’re not looking at it from a, like, emotional standpoint. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter So I would definitely continue to seek professional help, and that’s even as somebody that feels like very competent in knowing how to do things. It’s just nice to have that accountability. Um, and, you know, everybody needs to be checked at some point. You know, I think we can all divert and, uh, deviate off our, our path. So, you know, we, we’ve gotta kind of correct that every now and then. And I think that’s exactly what the role of, you know, good therapists can do. But I think also, um, you know, I’ve really made a conscious, very intentional effort to surround myself with positive influences. Um, I’ve made a very conscious decision to let go of friends in my life that were limiting me, that were holding me back, um, or that didn’t, that didn’t support me. So, you know, I think I know the person that I wanna be. So I, I’ve kind of written it down. I do a lot of journaling and a lot of like deep thought process. To whom do I want to be? What does she, what does she look like? How does she carry herself? How, how does she act around, you know, her kids? How does she act around her friends? And, you know, I really strive to do that on a daily basis. There’s always, there’s not a day that goes by where I’m not looking at some kind of positive affirmation. I’m not reading another chapter of a book that I’m interested in, and it’s usually all mental health, you know, neuroplasticity of the brain or you know, um, you know, breaking bad habits or, you know, letting go of. I guess your fear mindset or you name it. So I really try to be intentional with putting those thoughts in my mind and keeping the people that are a good influence in my life. Very close, very close. So. Brett Gilliand I don’t, I don’t think, uh, people spend enough time, in my opinion, in what I call strategic think time or what you probably call your journal time. Um, I don’t, don’t you agree? Like I don’t think people spend enough time doing that. And I know for me over the last 20 years, that’s what’s helped me uh, well really, I guess since July of 2005 when I started writing down in my black journal, I carry with me everywhere I go. Um, that’s, that was a game changer for me. Right. And it continues to be a game changer for me, but I just don’t think people spend enough time thinking about their own lives and where they want to go. Holly Baxter Yeah, absolutely. I think so many people, um, live in what I will call like their default state. It’s like they’re living on autopilot. I, I’d say most people, um, or many people have at some point in their life, probably experienced some, something unpleasant, something extremely, uh, difficult. Uh, whether we wanna call it trauma or, you know, they’ve just had a bad experience. Um, you know, those things, they impact us at a very deep level and they shape the way that we react, you know, to new stimulus. Like you can carry a, uh, a historical view or a perception of, like a relationship that you might have been in, and maybe somebody, you know, said a certain thing to you and that made you feel really insecure or it made you feel upset or unheard or whatever it was. But, you know, and that experience stays with you. So when we are, you know, experiencing those types of comments in our new, new life, new relationships, it’s really difficult to like let go of those past, um, I guess, narratives that we create for ourself and like truly be receptive and like aware of how that’s actually being portrayed now. And I think, you know, we spend a lot of time in our like subconscious state, which is what I’m referring to when I say like your default setting, your autopilot, you know, people, and that’s the body’s way of coping with a lot of things too. If you’re somebody that’s extremely successful and you’ve got your, you know, finger on the pulse for like 10 different companies and you’re trying to do a lot, it makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint as to why the human brain wants to be able to put things on default because you’re trying to deal with the new information. But I think that comes with a risk in that you’re not always present, you’re not always, you know, aware and self-awareness. Oh my gosh. Brett Gilliand It’s huge. Holly Baxter It’s huge. And you’re right, so many people do not spend enough time. Thinking about, thinking about anything. It’s like they’re just responding, responding, responding. There’s no no point at which they stop to slow down and just, you know, sit with their thoughts. Brett Gilliand Right. Holly Baxter And, you know, allow those thoughts to kind of, you know, move in and out and without judgment, without criticism, um, you know, that that’s a really unique skill. And I think it’s probably one that a lot of successful people do really well. They’re very, they’re very self aware. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. So let’s talk about you, you, you mentioned earlier, people you surround yourself with. That does matter. Right? And so I listened to, um, Peter Atia on Joe Rogan’s podcast. And then I, during my research, I saw you were on Peter Attia podcast. I mean, that guy’s doing stuff. It’s amazing. I actually have, uh, what’s he called it? The Centenarian Olympics or something, you know, so I’ve got this passion and I wanna live well into my nineties and play golf on my hundredth birthday. And, and so, When you think about the Peter Attias of the world, the people you’re surrounding yourself with, like what are you learning from them that you can share with our listeners to take it to that next level? No matter where you’re at, whatever stage of life you’re at, what do we need to do to take it to that next level? Holly Baxter Oh, I think, look, if there’s one thing that I will say, uh, and it’s because I’ve made this mistake many times and I’ve continued to make it over and over. Um, but I think you get a little better at this, and that is, um, having self-care. I, I think that our culture today, Prides and like aggrandizes. Um, you know, the person who basically does it all that does that works 24 hours a day. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter That doesn’t sleep. You know, they’re mentally headstrong, you know, they, they do, they go over and above like it’s that, you know, mental toughness, like to me, society really like, kind of aggrandizes that. But I think that that also comes with a lot of like, there’s a lot of downsides as well because you, you stop caring about, you know, the things that are really important that, you know, you’ve only got this one vessel that’s gonna take you through your entire life. So I think, you know, being able to slow down, um, and to prioritize are the things that are most important to you. I would say are like two of the things that I did terribly I wanted to do everything when I was, uh, a lot younger and I still have lots of goals. I’m gonna say they’re all still floating around on a list somewhere. But you know, I think as I’ve gotten a little older, I’ve become more of a realist. I’ve recognized that, you know, you can’t do it all. You need to be able to delegate and you need to be able to um, I guess take things at a, a pace that, that allows you to have like good health. And I know for many years I just burned the candle at both ends. You know, I was trying to do bodybuilding competitions and, you know, that’s, that’s a, that’s a part-time job as it is. Uh, and then, you know, I was trying to scale three companies and try and be a parent and, you know, try and be a good wife and move countries and look after my friends. So I’m like, oh, actually, this is impossible. Brett Gilliand This is impossible. Holly Baxter Yeah, and that, that was probably right around that time. Like I said earlier, when I hit rock bottom, I, I kind of had this, you know, realization where I was like, wow. You know, you’re, you’re about to take your own life and it’s your own doing. Like you can undo this. You have a choice. You’ve just gotta change a few of these, you know, perceptions, which I know for me was uh, people pleaser, perfectionist, um, you know, always, I was always, um, I guess given praise when I was a teenager and a kid as well. Brett Gilliand Mm-hmm. Holly Baxter um, that from my performance, it was like if I was getting good praise, if I was, you know, winning all of my sporting events. If I did the best job at the recitals and like if I was doing all these things, that’s where I found I was getting like love. But what I, what I realized was like the way that I was parents or my, the way that I was raised by my parents, it was almost like it was conditional love and it’s taken me a lot of time to kind of reflect back on that, kind of dig into that and understand where my current like perception of life has come from. To be able to go, you know what, I, I forgive yourself. You know, I, forgive me, you’re that you were wired this way, but it’s not the, it’s not the right way. You don’t have to be everything to everyone all the time. You know? So I think having very high goals and ambition, that’s amazing. But I think being realistic with, you know, the timeframe that you get things done and being gracious and compassionate in those moments of stress and struggle, that’s really helped me continue to like chip a way without like just falling off altogether. Brett Gilliand Yeah. But I think that you probably don’t know that or won’t realize that unless you are slowing down. Right. I always say slow down to speed up. So unless you’re slowing down, unless you’re kind of grading yourself, if you will. Uh, and, and journaling and thinking about it. I mean, I know for me that I was the same way and I, I ended up coming up with this thing called Focus 90. And it’s 90 minutes. It’s, it’s for 90 days. For 90 minutes. It’s these three or four or five really important things for me that I need to get done. Because what I found was I would, I’d come home at five o’clock and go to basketball or baseball games, whatever it was, whatever season we’re in with our children, and yet I was, I was tired and I was quote, unquote, busy all day, but yet I wasn’t really getting the things I needed to get done, done, but yet I was busy. And so for me to slow down and speed up and say, okay, if I can do these three or four or five things a day, that’s a, that’s, that’s a victory. And then if I can do ’em in the first 90 minutes, I’ve won the morning, and I know if I win the morning, I will win the day. Right. So when you hear me say that for, for you, what’s your quote unquote focus 90 like, I have mine. What are your no miss items that helps you win the day. Holly Baxter I think starting off the morning with like 30 minutes of, uh, I guess reading and 30 minutes of gratitude or 15 minutes of each. So 15 reading, 15 minutes of gratitude. So yeah, that has become my staple. So I’ve got a couple of really great books that I will read. Um, some of them are biblical, some of them are just, you know, psych- psychology, but they’re always like very positive. They get me thinking, they get me into that like conscious state of mind, like really doing some self-assessment. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter And then I’ll reflect on that and okay, what am I gonna do today that, you know, is gonna progress me to, you know, tomorrow? So that’s kind of one of my non-negotiables. Um, and then I’ll always exercise. Uh, I don’t always get the full amount of time in, like today. I think I cut my exercise a little bit short. Um, but, you know, exercise, I think it just sets you up for, you know, open thinking, a clear mind, um, and that’s when you can really get into some of your deep work. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter So yeah, I think that that’s how I start my day and I always have my priorities list running in the background. Um, you know, I’ve got my big five year goals, but then I’ve also got like my, I have to break it down into my short, you know, week to week goals, month to month goals. Brett Gilliand What does that look like? Is that on a piece of paper that you carry with you or is it like in a journal? Like, where’s that at? Holly Baxter So I actually have it on a spreadsheet. Brett Gilliand Okay. Holly Baxter So, uh, one of the tasks that I actually did to help me better, like become more effective and efficient with my time, um, believe it or not, was time blocking. So I think you, you just mentioned you felt like you were extremely busy all the time, but you weren’t quite getting ahead with where you wanted to be. Um, so I was in a very similar situation. So I had to work out, first off, what am I doing with my time? Because I, I had an idea up in my mind, but I had to start putting it on paper to really… to believe what I thought I was doing. So that first task or that first step to, to making some positive changes was time blocking, and it was 15 minute intervals. So every 15 minutes on my calendar, just my good old Google Calendar, I would go in and put in what I was doing. So I did that for two weeks straight. It was the most painful, annoying thing , that I’ve ever done. Brett Gilliand That’s right. Holly Baxter And I see like people kind of get push, like they don’t wanna do it, but it really helped me realize, okay, here’s the time that it actually takes me to do, write a caption for social media. Oh, you know what? I’m actually missing out the fact that I’ve gotta go and spend an hour researching and reading three different you know, studies or then I find a meta-analysis and I, you know, okay, this is actually a study and then I have to write it. So I was not being realistic with the time that it would take me for certain tasks. And then I also had to decide, okay, out of all the things that I’m doing and we calculated it all up, I think I had a column for what I do in a day, what I do in a week, and then quarterly and then, uh, annually. And it worked out to be about 16 hours of work per day. Cause I put a time bracket on everything. So I was like, wow. No wonder, I feel so busy, so what here is not important and what can I delegate? So I went through that big list of all the things that I was doing, and I’m like, okay, well that’s not good use of my time. I’m not really that competent in that skill. So I need to hire somebody for this. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter So that was the slowing down for me, putting the brakes on a little bit and finding the right team to help support me with, you know, that building process. Otherwise, I was constantly gonna be spinning my wheels. Brett Gilliand Yeah. So I don’t wanna, I don’t want to gloss right over that. So, I mean, that, that’s, that right there is worth the, uh, the price, which is free for people to listen to this podcast. Right. But that’s worth the price of admission right there. That whole process that you just went through. What do I do in a day? What do I do in a week? What I do in a month? What I do in a quarter? Right? Listing all those things out and then either do it and schedule it in your time blocking, right. Or delete it or delegate it. Right. I mean, that’s a huge, I mean, that is absolutely huge for people to take that into their lives and do it during their think time. So I appreciate you sharing that. That’s awesome. Yeah. Um, so let’s talk, you talked about your workout today. Let’s spend some time on, uh, those of us that aren’t trying to win a body building contest. I’m, I’m clearly not. Um, and so, uh, but for those listeners that we just want to exercise, we wanna be healthy, we want to be flexible and mobile into our nineties or whatever, right? Whatever’s people goals are. How much time do we spend on cardio versus strength versus maybe flexibility, mobility, stretching, whatever you want to call it. Holly Baxter Yeah, look, I think all of those, um, are extremely important. I don’t think that you would want to completely like, uh, not do any of those. They’re, they’re great. Um, but it probably depends on what your goals are. Um, I think for most of us, and I’m probably generalizing a little bit here, but I’ll, I’ll go with the, the stereotype of human, which is. Brett Gilliand Okay. Holly Baxter Usually wanna lose a little bit of body fat. Um, and that might be for health reasons. You know, we’re trying to improve some of your blood biomarkers. Or it might be to, uh, I guess for the aesthetic, you know, everybody wants to look, look a little bit better, a little bit, you know, leaner. Um, and I, I, either of those is perfectly good reasons to, to exercise. So my old mindset prior to learning what I know now is that, you know, I, I really enjoyed cardio, so I was like, well, I just need to do a lot more of that in order to get to this physique that I really like. I recall in my early twenties, there was a period where I was probably exercising six days a week. Uh, I was taking boot camps and participating in them, and then I was also doing my own training and I can guess it was probably about 15 hours of cardio. Um. Brett Gilliand Wow. Holly Baxter A week. That was high intensity cardio. And I did a significantly lower amount of resistance training. I think, uh, when I was doing track athletics we did once every other week we’d go in and do 30 minutes in the weights room and it was, you know, explosive kind of, you know, leg pressing for, for power. It was interesting. So, you know, I was doing all this work and I was also trying to restrict my calories. I was very, you know, had a lot of rules, you know, forbidden foods restrictions. Again, this is back when I was really struggling with my eating disorder. So, um, yeah, I was doing all this work and I just couldn’t get to where I wanted to go. It made no sense to me at the time. So, you know, the more I started following, you know, some of the evidence-based researchers, and this is po, this is post like me having my my degree. So there’s… Brett Gilliand So, you know, hey, you know what you’re talking about. Holly Baxter Hmm. So, like, I already had six years of like college education under my belt at this point. Um, but there just wasn’t a whole lot of, um, like that research integrated into my, like for what I did. So I guess I happened to stumble across some of the like leaders in the nutrition and exercise science field, and they really opened my eyes to the benefits of resistance training. So what has happened over time, and I’m, I promise I’m getting to a point here, what happened over was that I started to build lean body mass. Through that resistance training, um, I followed the evidence-based approaches, which enabled me to see some radical improvements in my lean body mass in a very short… and Brett Gilliand Can I interrupt real quick? I’m sorry. I hate interrupting, but when you say resistance training, can you define that just kind of so we’re all on the same page. What does that mean to you? Holly Baxter Yep. So, uh, lifting weights in a gym or any kind of, uh, load-bearing exercise that is going to challenge your muscles and, uh, lead to, uh, positive like hypertrophy adaptation. Brett Gilliand Perfect. Holly Baxter So anything that can build muscle, we need, we need to have a certain amount of stimulus and resistance. Um, in order to do that. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter That’s what I mean. So just hitting the gym. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter Um, so yeah, I guess when that started to happen, I also noticed that my, uh, daily calorie in intake was also a little bit higher. I could actually eat more, you know, food. And the reason for that is like your lean body mass um, is one of the driving factors that will boost your basal metabolic rate, which is essentially your metabolism. So the more muscle you have, um, the more you get to eat. It’s wonderful. So, um, you know, I think for everybody that is wanting to, you know, lose body fat, If you can do the work in acquiring more muscle, and that does take time. Um, if we look at like natural, like drug free athletes, like I’m a natural athlete, so this, the process is always a little bit slower than some of the, you know, people in the, you know, the untested federations. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter But it, it’s the, the research shows for females, I’ll speak specifically to, so it’s about half, uh, half of a kilogram per month is about the most lean body mass you can build when you’re following, you know, uh, re resist, uh, evidence-based resistance training protocol. Now there’s going to be some variability there. Like that’s taking, you know, randomized control trials and meta-analysis and looking at the average muscle gain. I actually are on the, the higher side of that, based on the time that I was putting into the gym. Like I really focused on it. So, you know, you, you can do that math, you know, six months, you know, we’re really looking at like three kilograms of, of lean body mass is the most that you could put on. So, and that, that, that would then make a significant increase to your calorie intake. So I think the benefits of resistance training beyond, you know, the, the way that that can positively impact like our longevity, um, I think, you know, that to me was the biggest game changer of everything. And I slowly started to taper down the amount of cardio that I was doing. And basically replaced all of that with, uh, resistance training. And then I found I had to only do half as much exercise in order to maintain my weight because now I’ve got this more muscular physique that on a day-to-day basis, it requires a lot more energy to, to fuel and to operate. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter So I didn’t have to do as much training as I used to to be able to maintain a better physique and one that I liked a lot more that had shape. Um, you know, it was contributing positively to my long-term health. Brett Gilliand I like it. So let me, I’m gonna share this with you if I can. This is my workout here. I’ve got it written down to paper now, because again, I’m a, I’m a believer in that. And so for years, I mean, until, like, you know, a month ago I didn’t have all this written out, and so I would be the guy, I’d show up in my gym, I have one in my basement, and it’s like, okay, I don’t know what to do. I’ll just make stuff up as I go. Right? And, and so what I’ve done is, and this is through lots of research, is so Monday, All resistant training weight, right? Um, Tuesdays I’m actually doing that, um, zone five training that Peter Tia talks about. So I’m basically running really fast for, you know, a while or run a three minute run, one minute sprint, three minute run, one minute sprint, so on and so forth. Repeat that for 30 minutes. You know, a stretching and some meditation. Wednesday, back to some weights. Thursday um, I do this thing, it’s like a golf workout, like the for flexibility mobility, uh, Friday, either the Peloton or the Peloton tread for 30 minutes, and then the weekend is back to some weights. So when you hear that, where am I messing up or am I on point? Holly Baxter No, I think you’ve, you’ve just described like a really balanced approach to your, your health and fitness. Like you’ve got your endurance in there. You’ve got, um, I guess your a, you’re training your anaerobic system, you’re training your aerobic system. You’ve got mobility flexibility. You’ve got something in there that sounds like a hobby, like you’ve got your golf stuff. That sounds great. Now, if you said to me, Hey, Holly, I really would like to be a lot more muscular, um, for aesthetic, let’s say it’s for aesthetic reasons. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter Then I would probably say to you, alright, well how many hours in the day do you have to contribute to activity? And if you said to me, well, I haven’t got any more, like this is the only amount of time that I can I can use to set aside for my exercise. And then I’d say to you, let’s, let’s get rid of some of the cardio, because you don’t need that if you wanna be muscular. Brett Gilliand Okay. Holly Baxter So, you know, everything’s a trade off. You’ve gotta be able to make sacrifices here and there. Like my sacrifices, I can’t tell you the last time I watched tv, uh, because that’s my reading time and that allows me to do my training, you know, so, um, everything’s a trade off. But if your goal is to move into, like an old age, With, um, you know, all, all facets of health, uh, it sounds like you’re looking after your mental health by choosing things that you enjoy. You’ve got to do that, that otherwise, if you can’t enjoy what you’re doing, you’re not gonna stick to it. So, and then you’re looking after your cardiovascular health by doing some of the running. Absolutely. And that sounds really rough, by the way. uh, then you’re looking after your joints and you’re doing your flexibility, your mobility. Yeah. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter You, you’ve got a good balance there. Brett Gilliand All right, perfect. Well, if anybody wants a copy of it, I can send it to ’em. Just send me an email or a text and I’ll be happy to share it. Um, share it with us a little bit about, you’ve got an app and you’ve got workout programs, and you’ve got books and all that kind of stuff. And, and so maybe share with us where people can, uh, find more about that if they want help with this. Holly Baxter Yeah, absolutely. So I think, um, one of the things that I really wanted to do when I moved to the US was make sure that we can cater to a wide range of people. So, um, and specifically when it comes to cost, so I offer personally one-on-one coaching and I have a great team of, uh, I guess girls, females who also offer coaching for a range of different, uh, fields. Um, but, you know, one on one, it’s, it’s gonna be pricey, right? So, uh, in addition to that, we also have, uh, a nutrition coaching app, which is called Carbon Diet Coach. So, um, my husband and I. Brett Gilliand Say that again. Holly Baxter It’s called Carbon Diet Coach. Yeah. Brett Gilliand Okay. Holly Baxter Sorry. This is an advanced, uh, nutrition coaching program. It basically, we wrote an algorithm that adapts to the individual. So we can have two people, let’s say they’re genetically, they’re twins, they’re exactly the same, um, but they’ve got slightly different lifestyles. Um, they’re within 12 weeks of that program, I can tell you now, they would not be on the same nutrition targets or goals. Um, you know, the coach adapts to that individual. It makes adjustments based on the changes that we see for that person. So, uh, it’s really cool. It coaches for fat loss, it coaches for reverse dieting, uh, which is basically the concept of metabolic restoration. Like we wanna help um, induce some positive metabolic adaptation. So if you felt like you are eating nothing and training like a Trojan and you’re not getting anywhere, there’s the very possibility that you’ve just got a lot of negative metabolic adaptation. It’s like the body adapts to these lower calorie amounts. It’s like you become more efficient. Um, and again, from an evolutionary standpoint, your body is trying to protect you from starvation. It’s a great thing from an evolutionary perspective. It sucks if you wanna lose some body fat. Um, but you know this, we have this setting called the reverse dieting setting that will help you slowly reintroduce calories back into your diet, which will facilitate just some adaptation. It’s like the body doesn’t quite realize that anything’s changing and all of a sudden you’re eating more calories. So, and that has a muscle building setting as well. So that’s, um, that’s our app. It’s, uh, super cool and it’s $9.99. Uh, it’s available on Android and iOS, so we’ve.. Brett Gilliand That’s a one time $9.99 or $9.99 a month? Holly Baxter Per month. Yeah. There’s annual fees, there are six monthly fees and you, it’s slightly cheaper, I guess, if you look at what the weekly cost is. So, um, but yeah, I mean, that, that has just under 50,000 subscribers. Brett Gilliand Wow. Holly Baxter Um, or it’s, it’s, it’s really a great product and my goal with that product is to, uh, over time implement some of the work that I enjoy doing as well, which is adding that coaching psychology aspect, which, you know, they are so important together because I can give you all my knowledge, like I can say to you today hey, all right. So we know that when protein and calories are equated, you can have any combination of carbohydrates and fats in your diet. You will, you’ll have a successful fat loss phase. I can teach you everything and if you have, uh, a bad behavior or bad habit. Like, you know, I actually really just like going out with boys on the weekend fishing and that that’s ruining your second and third training session every week. You know, like, it doesn’t, no amount of knowledge or experience is gonna help you. Like you need to work on some of the fundamental like mindset changes. So I wanna be, be able to integrate that into this app, which it’s definitely on our radar. We just have to get some more, uh, dev support to do that. Um, And then we have a, a really cool workout platform too. So, um, you can go in and use our workout builder. It is, there’s over 60 or 70 programs, something of that nature. It’s catered to beginners through to advanced professional athletes like I use these programs. Um, and it’s really flexible in that if you are working out from home, there is a program for you. If you’re working out in the gym, there’s a program for you If you don’t have access to you know, 10 pieces of equipment, like people often will get a single program from a trainer and they’re like, well, I don’t have that. Now what do I do with this program that I’ve just spent money? So we have a cool toggle feature where I’ve basically gone through and picked every single exercise that I can possibly think of that targets that same muscle group. And you can choose another exercise. So if you don’t have, uh, a reverse hack spot in your gym, you’re like meh, you can go and choose from this list. And there’s about 10 other exercises more there, 20 other exercises that you can choose. So that’s a really cool program. Brett Gilliand That’s amazing. And that’s through the same app or is that a different spot? Holly Baxter That’s a different company of mine. So, uh, That’s a, that’s on our website. Um. Brett Gilliand Okay. Holly Baxter It’s, uh, biolayne.com. Um, and that’s part of our subscription-based service on our web-based platform, so. Brett Gilliand Okay. Holly Baxter Yeah, we have, we have a lot of cool stuff. Brett Gilliand So let’s talk from a business side real quick. We’ve been talking about, you know, the mindset we’ve been talking about, uh, fitness and, and all those things. So from a business standpoint, how, what makes you different, um, than all the other thousand people out there, more than that probably, that have this app or this next great thing to where now I think you said 50,000 people are on the platform monthly. That doesn’t just happen, right? So give us some business 101 on what you think you focus on and how you build that. Holly Baxter So I think, um, we’ve kind of done things in reverse than how most businesses would approach things. So usually you’d take a product and you market it. You go, here’s this amazing product. The product sells itself. So I think what we did was a little different. So we had myself, uh, and another, uh, influencer. So my husband, uh, Dr. Lane Norton. So he, uh, he and I basically, Marketed this product, um, to our audience. And it was just so fortunate that both of us have a really loyal, um, following on social media. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter That, you know, that really helped to grow it. And then of course, Once you know they’re using it, then they’re talking and introducing it to their friends. So, you know, a lot of the referrals will then come from word of mouth, but that’s because it’s also then a great product. So we’ve got not only, you know, two people that have, you know, really great reputation in the evidence-based, um, community. Um, I guess we’re big personalities. Um, You know, we’ve also got the, we walk the walk, we talk the talk. We have the degrees, like he’s got the PhD. Um, you know, I’ve got the masters in dietetics and both of us are competitive athletes. So, you know, he’s a world champion, uh, power lifter. I have done body building and power lifting, you know, for many years. So I think we do have.. Brett Gilliand Results. Holly Baxter Pardon? Brett Gilliand So the results matter. Holly Baxter Yeah. Like you’re gonna, you’re getting people that know what they’re talking about because they’re scientists, but they also are like applying it practically. Brett Gilliand Yeah. Holly Baxter To their sports. So yeah, it took us two years to, to kind of build out this app. Um, but it, it does a really great, it really does a great job, so. Brett Gilliand That’s awesome. So where do our listeners find more of Holly Baxter? Holly Baxter Look, I would say go and, uh, check me out on Instagram and YouTube. So on both platforms, my handle is Holly T. Baxter. Um, and you can get access to all of those things on my pages. You can find a carbon diet coach, you can find the workout builder, you can get access to me for what I’m coaching or, um, my team of coaches as well. Brett Gilliand That’s awesome. Well, we’ll put all this in the show notes, Holly, and uh, it’s been awesome having you. I love talking, uh, everything we’ve talked about today. It’s been great. Tons of notes, lots of takeaways for me, and I hope you have a great rest of the weekend. A good Thanksgiving. Holly Baxter Yeah, you as well. Thank you.

Andy comes from modest beginnings. At age 14, he started lifting weights and immediately knew it would be a part of his life from that moment on. He has created a career that allows him to be a Scientist, Teacher and Coach. He is a Professor at California State University, Fullerton and Director of the Biochemistry & Molecular Exercise Physiology Lab. He has worked with elite professional athletes for over 15 years. The list includes NBA All-Stars, MLB MVPs, Olympic medalists, NFL Pro Bowlers and Hall of Famers from multiple sports. His mission is to provide the world with free & accessible high-quality, accurate, and entertaining information that will inspire and improve the human condition by enhancing the understanding of human performance, nutrition, health and well-being. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tYcx5LC13U   Brett Gilliland Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland. Today I’ve got Andy Galpin with me. Andy, how you doing? My man? Andy Galpin I’m doing amazing. How are you? Brett Gilliland I am doing great as well you’re, uh, you out in California today? What part of California you at? Andy Galpin Yeah, I live in Southern California in, uh, long Beach. Brett Gilliland Long Beach. Very nice. Well, thank you for being with us today. And, uh, uh, as the intro says, obviously you’ve, you’ve got, you’ve built an amazing career and, uh, you are a world leading expert man. I feel, uh, very blessed to have you on the Circuit of Success and so, uh, appreciate your time. But if you could maybe just give us a little lay of the land, Andy, what’s made you, the man you are today and, and kind of help getting you to where you’ve gotten. Andy Galpin Yeah, sure. I guess you want a little bitof the background is. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Andy Galpin Is that where you’re going? Brett Gilliland Yeah. I always say people don’t just wake up and become a doctor, work with athletes, do all the things that you’re doing, man. There’s a backstory there. And it’s, it’s my job to figure out that backstory. Andy Galpin You got it. So I was born in the Pacific Northwest, so in a, in a pretty small community, farming and logging, things like that. So I played every sport, uh, growing up. And then of course, like everyone I grew up with, I did every other job you could possibly. Do so working at grocery stores and pumping gas and hang in the summers and, um, cleaning stalls and things like that. Right. That’s just, yeah. Everyone I grew up with, that’s just what you did. Um, I was fortunate to actually, I went and played college football. From there, I got a degree in exercise science and was able to take that and I got a job down at Tempe, Arizona at a place called Athletes Performance. This was 2004. 2005, something like that. And, uh, at that, at the time that facility had probably over 200 professional athletes, Hall of Famers, number one draft picks, like very, very high level NFL major baseball guys. So I was there for about half a year and I realized like for sure I didn’t wanna be a strength and conditioning coach was like my full-time job. And um, so I went then back to school and got my master’s degree in human movement sciences. And obviously I wasn’t competing in football anymore. But I then started competing in, in weightlifting or Olympic weightlifting, as you may, you know, see it in Olympics. Mm-hmm. Um, competing in combat sports and jujitsu and MMA and things like that. Um, then went, got my PhD in what’s called human bioenergetics. It’s like a fancy way of saying muscle physiology and metabolism and things like that. I continued to work with athletes, um, continued to train and compete in the combat sports. And then, uh, 2011 I came out here to California. Uh, started my lab, which is called the Biochemistry and Molecular Exercise Physiology Lab, and then eventually took over the Center for Sport Performance out here. So, um, since then I, I’m in the last, you know, 11 years or so, I’ve been, I’ve been doing that, which is three really major components. So Component one is I run that research center and we will study anything. Uh, and disseminate that information we think can enhance human performance. And this is anywhere from breathing techniques to, uh, you know, what types of training are best to, uh, taking muscle biopsies and looking at molecular and cellular and genetic components, um, of muscle growth and development, whatever it needs to be. Um, the other part is then I teach in the areas of sports nutrition, uh, at the graduate level, um, advanced muscle physiology and human performance and things like that. And then I have worked with, uh, professional athletes, you know, for a long time now, and, um, I’ve worked with. Saw young winners, MVPs, all pros, all stars, Hall of Famers, gold medalists and Olympics, silver medalists, world champion fighters in multiple major sports, et cetera. So probably, I don’t even know how many at this point, um, but a lot of them and including. Currently the number one player in the world and four major of the major American sports. So… Brett Gilliland Dang. Andy Galpin That’s the big picture. A little bit of where I was and what I do now. Brett Gilliland That’s awesome, man. Well, there’s a lot there, right? Cause you don’t just become this person that’s working with all the, the people you just mentioned and, and so there’s a lot there. So if, I mean, if I were to follow you around the last 10 or 11 years. Before we get into the exercise fitness side of things and maybe the mindset, let’s talk about what were those, what was, what was Dr. Andy Galpin doing as that low? When were you, when you started, how old were you when you started professionally working? Was that late twenties, early thirties? Andy Galpin Uh, it was, yeah, it was, uh, finished my PhD at 27. Okay. Brett Gilliland So, so I went back to your 27 year old self. I mean, what am I seeing now to get you to the level? Cause there’s a lot of people that can go get their doctorate and do the things that you did at school. I shouldn’t say a lot, but there, there are people that can do that, but not many of ’em have taken it to the level you’ve taken it to. So let’s talk about that. Andy Galpin Well, there’s, I think there’s a couple of ways we can go about this question. One of ’em was, so maybe not actually what you’re asking, but I get asked a lot, which is kind of like, how, how do you get into these communities? Brett Gilliland Yeah. Andy Galpin And how do you get these breaks? Right. How are you. Advising for these giant companies, how are you getting these, these contracts with these massive athletes? So that’s kind of like one, Brett Gilliland Yeah. Andy Galpin Which I’d be happy to answer. Um, and then the other question is sort of just like, what was it, what did it take, you know, in those first couple of years to get tenure, to get promoted, uh, and to go forward? So is there either one of those two you’d prefer? Brett Gilliland Let’s go with number one first and then we’ll come back to number two. So basically the same. I like that. It’s exactly what I was trying to ask those two questions. Andy Galpin Great. So, uh, the reason I actually started the conversation with where I come from is because I think it’s important people understand that I, I don’t come from, I’m not born and raised in LA. My dad wasn’t in professional sports and so I had, I don’t know anybody growing up that had a PhD. I didn’t know what a PhD was. Uh, for sure. Even as an undergraduate, I had no idea. I could not have told you the difference between a master’s and a PhD. Um, not that people don’t have success where I’m from. It’s very, very rare to get up, but people aren’t surgeons and, uh, I didn’t know anybody famous growing up. I didn’t even know anybody who’d met anybody famous , like, other than maybe like you went to a Mariners game and Joy Cora was walking around and you got to wave at him or something like that. Brett Gilliland Right, right. Andy Galpin That was it. Right. So I can, I can give you a hundred examples of this, uh, throughout my career, but I’ll give you a couple. And it directly answers the question, right? It’s just like, how did you get these breaks? Well, what I told you is I did my undergraduate and I played football, and then I started working in Arizona with professional athletes. I didn’t tell you how I got that job, and that is this. So I was an undergraduate, and I actually remember being on recruiting trips and asking sort of like, what are you interested in academically? And I was always like, you know, hey, human performance for performance, and like, this program didn’t exist. So they were always like, oh, okay. Public health and like athletic training. And I was like, no. Like , no. But that’s all we had. So even our exercise science theory, it was really just the exercise of public health and like, how do I get people out of obesity and stuff, whatever. There was nobody there focusing on human performance really. So I remember, I think, I think probably as a senior or junior, um, one of the faculty members was, you know, sort of like, Hey, I wanna set up a booth out front.. We have blood pressure screening so people can come by, we can check their blood pressure and start teaching people the importance and hey, early signs of, you know, chronic disease, et cetera. And she’s like, does anybody wanna do it? And I was like, fuck yeah, I’ll do it. And she was just like, great. And she’s just like, You know, you wanna do this type of stuff. And I was like, absolutely not. I could not be less interested. Like, I’m so… Brett Gilliland You could care less. Andy Galpin Hate it. He’s like, do you know how to check blood pressure? And I was like, absolutely no idea. I was like, great. But he’s like, you want help? Basically, he’s like, why are you doing this? And I’m like, if you want help, I’m in. Like, let’s do it. It doesn’t matter. Right. That’s just, that’s just where I come from. Just like, Brett Gilliland Yeah, work. Put on the work boots. Andy Galpin Hey, a hundred percent. Right. It’s just like, take your shot. So I did that and I sat there in the core cold Oregon rain and just nobody came by and I didn’t do anything. It’s just like… Brett Gilliland They didn’t even wanna do it. You didn’t wanna do it. They didn’t wanna do it. Andy Galpin Nobody. I’m a college football player. I’m trying to get a degree. In an area that I was grossly under prepared for, by the way, like coming from the academics in my high school. You know, I didn’t have the free couple of hours, but I did it anyways. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Andy Galpin Well a year or something goes by and she called, emailed me and something was actually, probably saw me in the hallway. You didn’t really use email much back then. And she’s just like, Hey, um, one of our former alumni is working up at Adidas and Adidas’s headquarters is in Portland. And um, they have an opening for somebody to run the corporate wellness gym. Do you wanna do it? And I was like, fuck yeah. And she’s like, do you have any, any, do you wanna know how much it gets paid? And I was like, Nope. Like I, I’m in, it was like, great. So I was driving, leaving my house at like 3:15, 3:30 in the morning to drive all the way up to work or up to Portland to open up the gym by like six AM. And then get that done to get back to practice. Typically started at like two, about three, but you gotta be there early, whatever. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Andy Galpin So I’m like, okay, I’ll do that shift. And I was minimum wage probably. If if anything it’s just like, okay. And so I was up there for a while and uh, I started getting early cuz where I’m from, my dad worked in road construction and we worked in the farm. So it was like if your shift started at 7:00 AM if you got there at 6:50, you were for sure gonna get fired. That you’re absolutely gonna get fired, right? Yeah. Like no chance. So I was just showing up like a half an hour early, just like way, and I like, I have a long drive. What if I run outta gas, like all these contingencies rights just to make sure I was never late. So all because of that, I was always way early. Well, what I noticed is people were there in the gym waiting to get in. I’m like, damn, there’s these people here. Like, so I’ll just let ’em in. And they noticed that they’re just like, they got really excited and so they ended up just like treating these people super well. And then there’s nobody in the gym. So I was basically like personal training them, even though I wasn’t like supposed to be. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Andy Galpin So I’m just like hustling on these people. Well, it ends up being like two of them just worked in this smoothie shop or something on campus, you know, or to get their workouts in. But the other, like four of ’em were on the executive team. I didn’t have any idea who was who or anything, and I just was just treating everybody like they were CEO. Right. Um, it didn’t take very many months for one of the guys to be like, Hey, we have these associates in Arizona. I think like, you know, we put in a word for you, I think that’s where you should actually be. Like, they knew I didn’t wanna be a corporate one, personal, right. But I was just training them as best as I could. So I was like dope. So that’s how I got that opportunity and that was a really tough spot to get down there. This is the only facility in the world like it at the time. So I, I guess the reason I’m saying is like I come back to, how did I get that break is because I sat in the rain and checked blood pressure doing nothing I wanted to do with no time I had, how do I get that next break? Cause I drove an hour and a half every day, you know, for minimum wage. Probably lost money after I paid gas. Brett Gilliland At three in the morning. Andy Galpin At three in the morning. You’re like, that’s how I got those breaks. And I could tell you every single story that I have about the next biggest break, the next biggest break. It’s always, it’s, it’s the same. Over and over again. It’s just different pieces. Brett Gilliland Yeah. It’s amazing. Isn’t, I mean, I think, and I’ve said this numerous times, for some reason, this is a theme coming up lately, it seems like, but how many, um, people, they, they only wanna do something if it’s gonna benefit ’em immediately. Right. I think that’s the world we live in. And it’s like, I, I think of the grind I used to have as a young financial advisor 21 years ago, and you know, they said make 40 phone calls while I was making 75 to a hundred. Right. And it sucks calling people. Nobody wanted to talk to you. Especially then people answer their phones. Cause there wasn’t caller id. They, you’d say who they are. Boom. They’d hang up. I mean, it was terrible. Right? But that’s the grind that we gotta go on. Whether it’s business, it’s fitness, it’s investments, whatever it may be. That’s the stuff that we gotta do every day. And, and so what I’d love to spend time on is that, optimum, um, kind of what I’d call optimal performance, right? So let’s talk the mental side and then maybe the physical side as well, uh, on what you’re doing. How are you helping people, these, these MVPs, if you will, be at the peak of their performance and use the lens of the business man, woman that’s driving down the road? Listening to this right now. Andy Galpin Yeah, you got it. So actually this works well because, you know, I’ve had the professional athletes, but I also have a company called Rapid Health Optimization. And that is specifically for non-athletes that basically want the, the athlete treatment. So I’m gonna describe to you what we do with the athletes. Brett Gilliland Rapid health. What was it? Andy Galpin Optimization. Brett Gilliland Optimization, okay. Andy Galpin This is the exact same model that you go through. Um, and we have, we have been doing that for quite a while, um, with, Brett Gilliland I promise you he didn’t put me up to this. For those of you listening, this is a legitimate question. Andy Galpin Yeah. Um, this is exactly what this company does. Brett Gilliland Okay. Andy Galpin Uh, here’s what we do. We like the general philosophy is this, uh, I want to give people extraordinarily high levels of precision with whatever they’re asking ’em to do. That way we don’t waste time. There are infinite things you could do or might help or help a little bit, but what are those three to five things that we call performance anchors? So these are things that are holding you back and dragging down your ship the most. If I can find those and pull those out, And then get outta the way, you’ll start taking off, right? You’ll hit speeds you’ve never reached, and you’ll do it with less friction, less resistance. It’ll be easier. That’s what we’re after. So in order to do that, we have to do an incredibly detailed analysis to figure out what those things truly are. Uh, people will sometimes refer to these as things like, these are root causes rather than symptom. So we’re going after solutions to solve problems, not cover up symptoms. And when we do that, then we just get outta the way and physiology takes you to unbelievable levels. Um, so what we do is we have a a two step process. Step one is what we call decode. So this typically takes us something like 60 days and we run giant experiments on you. And we wanna know four primary things. I wanna know every single thing that goes in your body. Every food you eat, where you get your water from, what type of toothpaste you use, where’s your shampoo coming from, everything that goes in your body. Number two, everything that comes outta your body. Saliva, stool, urine, blood, more blood. So more blood after that. A little bit more blood when you’re done with all that blood, sometimes hair. Anything else we possibly need. Step number three. How that all makes you feel. So we use a, a bunch of scientifically validated questionnaires and a bunch of other things I’ve used in my practice for a long time. And then the fourth component there is how you perform. So we want actual, the actually test performance. So we’re gonna see how your body functions. We’re gonna track a whole bunch of things. Um, this could even include doing things in your own home, in your own bedroom. So there are cases in which we want to dive extremely hard into sleep with, uh, another company called Absolute Rest. They can come back and talk more about this, but this is a full grade clinical sleep study done in your own bedroom, in your own house. This is full eye scanning, brain tracking, or uh, eye tracking and brain scanning, full environmental analysis of your bedroom. So this is any of the dander or allergens or pollen in the air. This is any organic. Uh, compounds coming outta your mattress or formaldahyde or mold or any of these things. Right? So we’re we’re.. Brett Gilliland You’re doing all this from, you’re in California. Sorry to interrupt. This is amazing. So you’re in California. I’m here in, you know, St. Louis. You’re doing this through me. I hire you guys and, and that’s how we’re doing it. Andy Galpin Yeah. We show up, we come to your house. Brett Gilliland Oh, you physically come to my house? Andy Galpin Yeah. Yeah. We’re gonna send a scientist to your house. To run that whole thing. We’re gonna send a phlebotomist to your house or, or your gym, or your office, or like, tell us where we’ve got people all over. You know, it’s just like, Hey, I’m in here. And, okay, great. We’ll meet you there. We’ll send us somebody, we’ll take the blood for you. I mean, you gotta do your own stool sample. Not gonna take that one for you. Brett Gilliland Right. Thank you. I thought that was gonna be part of your job duties, but maybe not. Andy Galpin Hey, now you’ll get a, you’ll get a scientist. You know, to your house, uh, um, with a sleep study for sure. To run that thing and then for the other stuff. Yeah. We’ll send a phlebotomist to your house and just take care of everything. Brett Gilliland Wow. Andy Galpin I told you this is the built, like this is the a hundred million athlete model, right? It’s like, yeah, we’re not gonna have you drive to seven Labs and set Lab Corps appointments like. No, we’re gonna handle all that stuff for you and like someone’s gonna show up and take care of it and you’re gonna go back to work. Brett Gilliland Is this like an annual fee or one time fee? A monthly fee? How do people, and you don’t have to get into the numbers right now if you don’t want to, but how, how does that work? Andy Galpin Yeah, generally you, well, there’s sometimes some payment options, but it’s, yeah, it’s a one time fee and then typically it’s an eight month program. Brett Gilliland Okay. Andy Galpin So typically, depending on your schedule, more than ours actually takes us about two months to get all the information and then we generally need about six months to correct everything. Brett Gilliland Okay, so there’s, and be correcting. You may say, Hey, this is your mattress is terrible. Get a new mattress. Cause this stuff’s coming out of it. You’re using the wrong shampoo for your blood type. I mean, whatever. Andy Galpin Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. This is, I mean, probably not that second example, but close. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Okay. Andy Galpin More like, uh, hey, you need to focus on stress management. You need to actually, like your biggest problem is you’ve got this fungal overgrowth. You’ve got this micronutrient deficiency. And then your cardiovascular fitness isn’t sufficient, but your actually problem is your legs strength isn’t good enough. You don’t have enough muscle and you’re actually, um, have, uh, known toxins exposure. So we gotta get that cleared out or whatever. So we try to boil it down to something like two to five things. Know what happens is once we complete that decode, then you get put on that optimization plan, which sometimes again, it takes two months. Sometimes. Brett Gilliland Okay. Andy Galpin Five to six months, and then you have a dedicated coach for the entire thing that, that runs you through everything. And then what’s most important for, for the athletes, what’s most important for your listeners too is, um, the reason why this thing takes five months and reason you have a, a weekly coach or unlimited coach, really talk, call ’em anytime you want is because we can’t just dump all that on your plate right now. So in addition to all those solutions, we build them out in the order you need to accomplish them such that it’s realistic. So we’ll say like, Hey, you’re gonna do this phase one, phase two, phase three, phase four, right? And it’s like eventually roll it out. So by the end of the five months, so like for example, the mattress thing, you kind of said. That actually might be on our list, but we might say, Hey, like that’s our fifth priority, so let’s get to that month five. Right now you’ve got this thing that’s gotta get cleaned up in your blood. You’ve got this other thing happening and your, your brain focuses down your sex. Your sex drive is way off. You’re, uh, you know, any number of things, right? Um, brain fog is there. We gotta do A and B to clean those up. Then we can get to, I don’t like the water filter you’re using in your house, but right now you can’t get through your day without crashing in the afternoon. We’re gonna fix that with this here first, or whatever. So, Brett Gilliland Wow. Andy Galpin It’s all built out in order, in a system for you. So you just sort of have to show up every week, um, and, and follow whatever your coach has on, and then by the end of the five months, everything will get taken care of. You’ll be, you’ll be on a new level. Brett Gilliland So that’s amazing. What, and what are you finding then in those, like is there a common thing that you’re seeing in today’s world for those people that want peak performance? And that may be somebody that’s a, you know, police officer driving down the road. It could be a sales rep, a stay at home mom, dad, whatever it may be. Are you finding common themes? Andy Galpin So the way that, uh, our, our solutions come in really six general areas. So area one is physical fitness and survival capacity, which is like your fitness, exercise. Area number two is stress management. Area three is sleep. Area four is nutrition, area five is supplementation. And then area six is what we call X factor. So that’s anything else that didn’t fall in one of those five categories. So the question is, what are the more prominent ones that we see? Unfortunately, there is no like ones, cause some time it’s entirely X factor. Sometimes it’s entirely comes down to sleep. Sometimes it’s entirely about you’re eating a good diet, it’s just not, not right for your body. And then we just make some dietary changes and like, holy shit, everything went away. Away. Brett Gilliland Yeah Andy Galpin My skin cleared up. Um, like those rashes and psoriasis are now gone. Like all we do is change my diet a little bit. Sometimes it’s, you know, specific supplementation. A lot of times because supplements are so easy, people can actually get themselves into problems because they’re taking sort of weird combinations. That aren’t right for their body. And so we actually can get you on one that’s more precise for your body and then just everything goes away. Brett Gilliland Okay. Andy Galpin You know, all the bad stuff. Um, sometimes it is exercise related, sometimes it’s breath work. Uh, it’s just, it really sort of depends. There is no common themes. What I, what I can say is we oftentimes get people who are like, I’m pretty health conscious. I’ve actually been spending a lot of time the last couple of years and a lot of. I feel a little bit better, but I’m not really totally sure. You’re like, oh, okay. You just don’t have precision. That’s the problem is like you listen to this podcast, you tried this, you heard this from your friend, you tried that, but you don’t have any idea of whether or not that was actually the right thing or if it’s, if it’s counteracting something else or making something worse. So that’s the part where people are just like, man, there’s too much going on here for me to figure all this stuff out. And so we just say, look, gimme two months. Give me two months and we’ll get all these things figured out for you, and there’ll just be no more guesswork. Brett Gilliland Which is amazing. Right? You’re right. I listen to podcasts, they’re like, oh, you gotta take this vitamin. And it’s like, well, I don’t know. You haven’t done my blood work. You don’t know if that’s good or bad for me, right? Andy Galpin Oh boy. Like, don’t get me started on that , but yeah. Yeah. Like I can’t, I can’t tell you how many, um, you know, what we’ve been getting a lot of lately is a lot of TRT rejects. So a lot of people who get so excited about T RT and I get it from either their friend who’s a doctor or just like a a thing, and then it works amazing for six weeks or eight weeks or four months, and then a year later they come to us and they’re just like, I feel awful. We’re just like you. You cannot play. Even it’s just like a little bit of DHEA, just like a little bit of, little bit of this. I just took a little, I just took what, and they, and they just train wreck themselves so they feel awful. Um, so we’ve been getting a lot of that one for interesting, some reason lately. Brett Gilliland Interesting. Andy Galpin Because it’s, yeah, they just hear it on stuff and they’re just like, Hey, testosterone’s so important. And all of us are low on testosterone. They hear all these things. So just take a little bit. It’s safe. It is safe. It’s not like dangerous. But if you don’t really understand the complexity of the system then you just start running into, all you’ve done is is like we said earlier, like you’ve kind of covered up the symptom, but you didn’t figure out, well, why is your testosterone low to begin with? Yeah, that’s the problem. So that’s what we do is we figure that thing out and then we solve that problem, and then it just doesn’t, it’s just not low anymore. You don’t have to worry about cycling this on top of that and then taking the next one and then take the next one. And just always kept, you got told me you get shit to do. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Andy Galpin You really wanna make sure you’re worried about all that stuff all the time. Just get it all solved and let physiology take care of everything and get outta the way. Brett Gilliland I’m glad I asked the question, man, that that’s, that’s phenomenal. We could probably stop the podcast there and just have everybody just call you up and, and get it done. Right. and say there’s the podcast, ladies and gentlemen. Andy Galpin I dunno if you realized you’re just like five minutes in, you’re gonna gimme a 20 minute promo for my company. There you go. Brett Gilliland Exactly. Yeah. You had one question and the whole podcast and uh, Andy’s now just. Andy Galpin Pitch. Pitch, pitch, pitch. Brett Gilliland Yeah, exactly. No, but, but you know what, man, it’s not a pitch because you’re, you’re absolutely right. Like you can see this sticker here on my microphone. Future greater than your Past is helping people achieve a future greater than your past. That’s what we do as our firm. That’s what I do personally. That’s when time stops for me, man. It’s just, I can talk about this stuff for hours because the point of this podcast is to help that person. One, I don’t care if one person listens to this. And we just helped that one person. Man, your goal was met. My goal was met, we helped them achieve a future greater than your past. And so it’s not a pitch when you’re really serving people. Um, but let’s, let’s do, give them maybe some if, if, if you’re even open to this high level type things, cause obviously you’ve not done my blood work or anybody else’s and all the other two months worth of work that you’ve done. But if I follow, let’s just pick on you. If I follow Andy Galpin around, what am I seeing? No miss items that you’re doing every day, without fail. Andy Galpin Yeah. So there’s a couple things to say here. Um, I’m gonna directly answer your question, but I need to give it a little bit of context first. I promise I won’t go too long. Brett Gilliland No, you’re fine. Andy Galpin Major, major mistake people make is worrying too much about optimization. And here’s what I mean. Uh, imagine a bowling alley or a bowling lane rather, right? You’ve all done bowling before with the bumper on the side, right? And everyone will come in and say, I gotta throw my bowling ball directly down the middle. Right? I gotta go make sure, and I’m, I’m trying to improve making sure that bowling ball is optimized, being on the optimal path because I don’t want to hit the bumpers. Okay, fine. And you’re so concerned about making sure your bowling ball is on the exact right spot on the lane. You could also reduce your chances of hitting the side by just widening the lane. And now everything, even if it is 10 or 15 or 20% off, still is optimal because it’s still nowhere near the bumper. Brett Gilliland Hmm. Andy Galpin That’s exactly what we have to pay attention to. That’s what we call resilience. So I don’t wanna make you what we call Precious, which is like you have to do 15 things every single day in order to have a good day. I want you to be far more resilient. So I, I love morning routines. These are fine, but people become a victim to these things so quickly that we have to go. No, no. You’ve actually just become super sensitive. So now if you don’t have your specific 20 minute routine this and five minute this, and this, and this and this, all of a sudden you can’t fucking function, right? You’ve become really, really, really precious. So we have to make sure two things, there’s optimization and then there’s adaptation. On the other end of the spectrum, you cannot get both at the same. So what we wanna do is work a balance. Um, so when you ask about like, what are the, whatever things I do that are non-negotiables, I don’t have any of them for that exact reason. There are certain things I like to do generally, but I, I, I make sure that I’m not a victim to having to have a specific daily thing. Um, exercise is obviously very high on my list, but I do not exercise every single day. Now I would like to, but sometimes I don’t want to, sometimes like I wanna sit, I wanna sit on my couch and watch the entire Master’s Tournament. Like that’s what’s gonna happen, right? I’m gonna watch nine hours of golf today. Like what? Oh yeah. Like my wife’s just like, how? Brett Gilliland Yeah, exactly. Andy Galpin I justify it, right? Cause I’m like, well, I’m trying to watch blah, blah, blah. Cause I got, I got a bunch of guys on tour right now. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Andy Galpin Like several that are always in contention, right? Brett Gilliland I love it. Andy Galpin Um, but she’s just like, but really, did you have to watch every single shot of their six hour round? Brett Gilliland It’s for work honey. Andy Galpin For work honey. I’m like, you haven’t seen the kids? Ah, that’ll, yeah, they’ll be anyhow. Um, so yeah, my day is better. I’m more productive, happier, all the things when I exercise. Some days I don’t worry about it. I love all kinds of things, but I also need to be in a position to where, um, like for example, a couple of weeks ago I was in Montana hunting for a week. Like, I need to be as good then as I am here, right? Which is just like, I didn’t have a chance to wake up. I didn’t gratitude journals. It’s like I got up on a few hours sleep, I hiked my ass for six hours. Like I had, I didn’t get to optimally hydrate, I didn’t get to like, it’s just like you still need to have a great day, right? I don’t wanna have a headache and brain fog becauseI didn’t, you don’t wanna be there, right? So the same thing is with sleep. Some people have big problems creating their sleep routines and you’re like, oh, I sleep optimally. And you’re just like, wait a minute. You have to have this, this, this, this, this, this. And you had to have this two hour routine. What happens when you travel? Oh, I sleep terrible. Of course you do. Brett Gilliland Right? Andy Galpin You made yourself super, super sensitive. Like you can’t do it that way. That’s why you sleep like shit on the road. It’s cause you’re too precious at home. That’s why. So, I didn’t answer your question all, but that’s like, I’m very careful about those things. Brett Gilliland Well I think it’s real though man. Cause I, I asked that question a lot is even on the day. Cause there’s, there’s plenty. What you just said. I totally connected with man. There’s plenty of days. And trust me, I’m, I’m a guy I journal. I do have my morning routine, like, you know, from exercise to my journal. Whatever it may be. And that’s for me because I know I win the day and it causes less stress. I’m happier and healthier and more productive when I do that. Right? So I know that works for me. It may not work for everybody else. Um, but I think what you’re saying is you’re just being real, right? You’re just being truthful and to your, to use your word, precious. I mean, that’s the thing that sometimes we do, we get so focused on being perfect. That it can screw the whole rest of the day up. And then you beat yourself, you beat your ass the whole day. Not good. Andy Galpin Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Or it’s actually not even you, it, it’s actually a thing. Right. So you actually do feel worse. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Andy Galpin On those days. Okay, great. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Andy Galpin So what I encourage people to do is, is to develop a, a routine that they know makes them feel tremendous. I just don’t want you to use it every single day, and I want you to actually practice sometimes intentionally not using it. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Andy Galpin And that’s, that’s how we end up in a really, really good spot. Right. So, um, so yeah, like what I generally do in the mornings up, I’m always going to generally try to do some sort of movement. Um, hydration is there. I’m also gonna be spending kid time, no question. I try to protect those times as much as I possibly can. I refuse to do work and podcasts and stuff in the morning, like hang out with my kids for a little bit. Um, and then I’m sort of off and rolling, right? And you’re gonna train at some point throughout the day. I don’t train in the mornings. Um, I’m gonna see my kids in these other various spots, so like, I kind of anchor things around that. Like basically if I can get movement and I can get my kids stuff in the rest of the day, can can work itself around. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Andy Galpin And I have specific little things I like to do. Like, um, I actually find that I generally like to do some sort of human interaction. It’s early as possible meeting wise, which is counter what a lot of people will tell you is like, protect your mornings for creative times and stuff like that. I actually kinda like to get those done outta the way first, and then I feel like that gives me actually a pretty good amount of energy. And then I want like three hours of nobody, nobody around. Brett Gilliland So isn’t that funny? Again, I think this is important because I’m the opposite. I don’t, I don’t wanna have a meeting first, first thing, but that late morning at, you know, that 10 o’clock, that 10:30 for me, I love my meetings in the middle of the day, so I like my morning open my afternoon. But I think what I’m, what I’m hearing is you and I probably spend a lot of time testing that and knowing it, and then just committing to it and being okay with it, right? Andy Galpin Yeah, a hundred percent. Like I actually, so the reason I like it for myself is I tend to have a huge burst of solution in the morning, and I actually wanna dump that to somebody, you know, I’m just like, Hey, boom, do this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I don’t want all these things to type it out, so I just fired off to somebody. What do we have to do today? What do we have? Update on somebody overnight. Different time zone. This outfit needs this. Got it, got it. Got. And I like all these things done. And then I can go do the stuff I have to, cause I feel free because all those things are taken care of. People are off, they’re doing their stuff. Brett Gilliland Yep. Andy Galpin Everybody’s taken care of and now I’m good. As opposed to sitting there like trying to be creative and trying to write or read or do whatever. While I’m like, man, I wonder who, what X athlete’s doing. Like they needed this thing. Are they okay? What’s their weight at? You know, how did they feel last night? We tried this experiment. How did it. I, I, I, I can’t focus. I wanna know those answers. I wanna give ’em, do what they’re doing, get off, and then get going. And that’s, that’s done within a half an hour in the mornings. Brett Gilliland I love it. Andy Galpin And I’m off, I’m off for rolling, so. Brett Gilliland So can you just gimme some feedback if you can? Selfishly here. So I, I try to do weights three times a week, cardio twice, and then what I call mobility. It’s like a golf thing I do, it’s called golf forever actually. It’s awesome tool. And, uh, so when you hear that three times weights, two times cardio mobility, one time, how do you feel? Andy Galpin Okay. Okay. It’s, it’s, it’s okay. Um, I would probably push, obviously I wanna know more details when you say weights, I wanna know what kind. And when you say cardio, I wanna know what kind. I would probably say that’s not enough cardio. If I had to, without knowing anything about you more than what you’ve heard on camera so far. Um, I’d probably say three. Three conditioning. Two Lifting. Generally. Conditioning. Brett Gilliland Okay. So that’s, uh, interesting. So the three cardio to, uh, one lifting. Andy Galpin I just think people generally under serve. Um, there’s lots of different types of conditioning and it also needs to be dosed more frequently. You can get away with dosing strength training, um, a little bit less frequently. You cannot get away with not doing fitness, not for very long. Brett Gilliland Okay. Andy Galpin So it would, again, it would really depend on what you’re doing in those workouts. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Andy Galpin So some people kind of like lift weights and they’re doing a pretty good, like if you’re doing like in a circuit fashion and your heart rate’s elevated, sustained for a long time. Then you might be good. Brett Gilliland Yeah. Andy Galpin If your cardio is 20 minutes on the StairMaster or your cardio is a 20 minute walk, then it’s like, this is not cutting it here. Brett Gilliland

Brett Gilliland outlines the many lessons he has learned from his guests on the Circuit of Success. With a variety of industries and professions, each guest has brought new habits, insights, and motivation to those who listen to the podcast. Brett goes over the lessons that have made an impact in his daily life and overall great advice for those wanting to achieve a future greater than their past! Brett Gilliland 0:00 Hello, what’s up everybody, I’m Brett Gilliland, and the host of the Circuit of Success podcast. And I just wan ted to come at you this week a little differently. Normally, we have a guest on every week and we talked about whatever the things are that we talked about that they specialize in, or that or the experiences that they’ve had in their life, the sports, they’ve played, whatever it may be. But you know, the number one thing I probably get asked the most is, who is your favorite guest? And, you know, what do you learn every week from this. And so what I thought I would do today is just share this, I think fourteen things, fourteen guests that I want to share some of my learnings from my perspectives on those and what it’s meant for me throughout the year. And so let’s all start, you know, with one of our first guests back in January 2022, it was Daniel Descalso. Daniel, for those that don’t know, played with the St. Louis Cardinals among some other teams, but known here locally, as a 2011, world series champion for our St. Louis Cardinals, which was, which was phenomenal. But we talked about a lot of things. And one of the things he talked about was the game will humble you, and it will humble you very quickly, you can go for it over. And I apply this a lot of things in sports to business. Because we can go through and over and over fifteen In baseball, maybe the 0-for acts in, in presentations to clients, if you’re in sales, it may be the just random stuff that you have to do as a lawyer or a police officer. And you’re just kind of what you would call in a slump. And I think what I liked the most is, he said, it’s the work you put in when no one’s watching, even when things are going well with your quote unquote, swing. That doesn’t mean you get the results and we have to stay committed. So what I think about there is going over fifteen In baseball, but still showing up every day and doing the work. Still showing up. And being committed to your craft, being a student of the game, doing whatever it is that you got to do, even when you don’t want to do it. I know for me personally, there’s plenty of days, right where you just you don’t wake up and you’re like, oh, running through a brick wall and you want to show up and go conquer your day and do all that. I think we’re all guilty of that. Whether it’s it’s things going on in our life, it’s maybe you were up, you know, traveling crazy for work. Maybe you were up late with kids sporting events. Whatever it may be, not every day, you’re up and Adam and I think that what matters is when you show up, even when you don’t want to. And that’s what I took away from Daniel Descalso. I remember him talking vividly about, you know, hitting line drives and hitting a ball that you think’s gonna go over the fence and they rob it, hitting line drives right at the shortstop or the centerfielder. And they’re not going the way you want them to go. But at the same time, it doesn’t mean you’ve hit a bad ball, or you could have ripped one, it just happened to be right at him. So we don’t need to get so focused on the things that we’re not doing well, focus on that good swing. But when no one’s watching, you can work on your craft every single time and try to get a little bit better. So that was Daniel Descalso. Next one is Trey Hardee. Now Trey was a great guest. Actually had him on along with Amy Coons, who I’ll talk about next. And they did a joint podcast with my son, Drew Gilliland and Addison Baltus. And so it’s another thing that I take away is these people, you know, are amazing. You know, I never would have imagined 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago, five years ago, the podcast was started about 10 or 15 years ago, that I would have the opportunity to meet these people. To just pick up the phone and call these people. It’s amazing to me how many people at the top of their game are willing to give back to others, to help us all get better. And so that’s just a little sidebar note, but Trey Hardee, two time Olympian, also a silver medalist, is an amazing person. And here’s what he said is you have to play the long game with your health. And I apply that to investments. You know, what I do every day Visionary Wealth Advisors for a living is you don’t just put $1 away today, and it doubles and becomes $2 tomorrow. No different than I can’t just go out and lift weights today, and expect to be stronger tomorrow, or expect to be healthier tomorrow. And so when you said that is you have to play the long game with your health, it made a ton of sense to me made a ton of sense with my own choices with eating habits made a ton of sense with my own choices. I’m never a you know, a five times a week guy to work out. But I can tell you is I said here in November, middle of November of 2022. And I’ve been at it four or five days a week, every week with exercise since beginning of August 2022. For me, that’s probably the longest spell I’ve gone in my life with exercise. And for me that hit home when he says you have to play the long game. I don’t like delayed gratification. I want the gratification now. Right? And I think a lot of us do especially in the world that we live in today. But playing that long game in my health was really important for me to hear to stop expecting to feel different tomorrow. Stop expecting to get the result tomorrow. Play the long game, show up again every day even when I don’t want to. And it’s amazing the benefits that you’ll start to feel and actually how you’ll start to like it, which is where I’ve gotten. So that was my takeaway from Trey Hardee. Amy Kuhns. Same thing, an Olympic athlete, just an amazing human being. And I was shocked, you know, again, when I asked these questions, sometimes you put your mind of things that you think you may hear, and I said to her, what’s the no miss item? Like if I followed you around the camera, Amy? What would I see that you do every single day? And her answer to me was kind of like, you know, very simple, but yet doing it every day having the discipline, and it was meditation, and gratitude. Never did I think what I’d hear coming out of an Olympic athlete’s mouth would be my meditation, and my gratitude. What are the three things I’m thankful for every single day? And you’ve listened this podcast, you hear that quite a bit, actually, it’s a common theme that you hear is people focusing on gratitude. But for me to hear it from an Olympic athlete, that what got her to that next level, was her meditations and her gratitude. And she also said, emotions are liars. And I’ll talk a little bit more about our emotions from somebody else. But, but that’s true, right? So many times we can feel an emotion. And it’s not true. And I overheard a conversation on an airplane ride, I was just on that I’m conquering my fear of flying again, if people listen to this, I’m over that fear, because I faced it, and I did it. And I’ve done it numerous times. Now, I digress. I apologize. But this one flight attendant said to another flight attendant, it was a male and female talking and he was in the Army for years. And he said he was scared on all these flights and all the things he had to go do. And the other flight attendant said, Why did you do that? Why did you do with that fear? And he said, You know what fears are right. And we’ve all said this, we’ve all heard this, but it’s false evidence appearing real. And I think that so many times in our lives, we do have fears that hold us back. We have fears that tell us, hey, this voice saying I can’t do this. This voice that says, Who do you think you are? Those emotions are liars of what I have found over doing what I do for the last two decades. We got to hear him, we gotta we gotta embrace our emotions, we got to feel our emotions. But we also have to understand that those emotions can be liars, and with the trust our gut, with the trust our instincts, trust our history of what we’ve done to be successful, and go out and make things happen. So the next one was by Brooke Weinstein. It was a simple comment she made, but a very profound comment. And she said, I am doing enough. You know, if I had to ask him to listen to this right now, raise your hand if you ever feel like you’re not doing enough. And again, I think a lot of us can feel that way. But what she said is give yourself permission to know that you’re doing enough. On a day, even though I just said show up and when you don’t want to. But she said sometimes you just don’t show up, you know, when she went through a very hard battle you can listen to on the full podcast, and it was her way to not beat herself up over not doing enough sometimes. Just just It’s okay. Sometimes it’s gonna be okay. And for me, what I have found is throughout the year to give myself permission to feel that way. If I wasn’t as productive as I was, sometimes I used to go home, I’d be upset, or maybe be mad at myself, whatever it may be. Just telling myself that I’m doing enough. And that’s okay. So thanks to Brooke Weinstein for that. The next one is Matt Adams, big city, World Series champ, again with the St. Louis Cardinals, I’m sorry, with the Nationals. But on a lot of playoff runs with the St. Louis Cardinals. An amazing guy. Gotten to know him. He’s just a great person. But he said it’s mindset and preparation. So two different things, right, your mindset and your preparation. He said, When I go up to bat, and again, I’ll apply that to the business room, I go into client meeting, I go into some presentation, whatever it may be. It’s knowing I can beat you, knowing that this is my day, right? But it all starts with preparation he talked about. So I’ve got to be watching film. So again, using air quotes, if you’re just listening, I gotta be watching film. I’ve got a practice. I got to think about what I need to say in this moment. I got to think about all the things that will come up in this client meeting. Whatever your at bat is. Your preparation has to be there, first and foremost. But then your mindset has to be there to say you know what, this is my day. This is my day and saying it’d be your day. This is my day, and I can beat you. Next is Alex, Alex Melvin CEO Rural King. This is based out of my hometown, Mattoon, Illinois. And I remember, growing up as a kid, and he always went there and you get the popcorn, right mom and dad needed to go in the store for something. There’s the popcorn, you would run over, you would get it. It was always free. It was always phenomenal. And I asked him a question around the popcorn. He said, you know, Brett, we spend $2 million on popcorn. Like, I’m kind of blown away by that. $2 million spent on popcorn. And I asked him, you know, why would you ever do that? No CFO is ever gonna think that’s a good idea to spend $2 million of the bottom line on popcorn. And his responses were this. We don’t want our popcorn to be half. I’m sorry, we don’t want our popcorn to be halfway. We want it to be all the way. Why? Well, because others don’t. So how are we going to figure out a way to say yes to the popcorn. So what others don’t. So go above and beyond right? That’s what I learned as running a company, whatever it may be run an organization Swing for Hope, our charity for cancer. I mean, go above and beyond figure a way out to say yes. We don’t want to be halfway, right? Nothing we do. If you’re listening to these types of podcasts, you don’t want to be halfway. You don’t want to be a second rate version of yourself. You want to be the best version of yourself. And so when we think about that, think about the popcorn, $2 million on popcorn. What are we doing for our clients to come in and remember the moment? Here I am now, 45 years old, still can remember going back as a 15 year old or a 10 year old and remembering the popcorn. But what I wasn’t thinking about as a 10 year old or a 15 year old Brett wasn’t thinking $2 million a year for popcorn. But that’s the experience t hey are creating at Rural King and that one really stuck with me. So thank you, Alex. Now the next one is Jay Papasan. Jay is the author of “The One Thing,” one of my favorite books. And on page 162 of that book, we spend some time talking about that in the podcast, is time blocking. You know how important is that? If I grabbed my calendar right now, I’ve got most of my things I do every week, pre-booked into my calendar. And so I’ve been doing this for years. And what I found was what gets scheduled gets done, right? Even if it’s as simple as, are you playing a lot of golf? Well, if I don’t get a golf thing scheduled, it’s not going to get done. My week will get filled with other things. If I want to spend time with advisors or clients or friends on a golf course on a late Friday afternoon, if it doesn’t get scheduled it doesn’t get done. My strategic think time. When I think about my time with my black journal right here. My time when I think about my dreams, my aspirations, my goals, especially now this time of the year, when we’re planning for 2023. If I don’t put it on my calendar, it doesn’t get done. So I’d ask yourself the same question. Are you planning the most important things in your life? Are they going on your calendar and everything else fits in around it? Jay Papasan was also talking about you put a boulder into the stream, the water figures away to go around it. So what are those boulders, if you will, that need to go on your calendar? In my opinion, it’s your family vacations, right? It’s your time off. It’s the things that you need to do to impact your community and have an abundance mentality. An abundance of thinking when it thinks about your calendar, and don’t have a time scarce. If you have an abundance of time, you can get things done. If I gave you a project and I said here, you have 14 hours to do it. I’m also a big believer within reason. If I give you the same exact project instead of 14 hours, you have eight hours to get it done. I think you’ll hit either one of them in that timeframe. And so again, think about time blocking. What are you doing? What are you putting on your calendar? Put the most important things on there, get them scheduled and make and make them happen? Brian miles. Brian Miles is the mental performance coach for the Cleveland Guardians. Another great guest that I had the privilege of talking to this year. But Brian Miles talks about purpose wins against pleasure every time. And that’s so true, right? We have so many things we’ve done in our lives where it was gonna feel good in the moment. So you do it. But it doesn’t give you long term sustainable success. So what is that thing that you’re doing every day that you almost feels like time just flies by, right? You get done doing it? You’re like, oh my gosh, there went three hours. It didn’t feel like it versus there’s things that we can do that it feels like it takes forever, right? It takes all day. If we’re not working in our purpose and we’re only working in our pleasure, you’re not going to have long term sustainable success. I know for me, I know for our firm. Our mission statement is to help people achieve a future greater than your past. And when I’m getting to do that, with our clients, with our community, with our advisors, whoever it may be or I’m on a podcast and doing this right now. Time stands still. It’s just one of those things I enjoy doing. So my purpose wins against pleasure. Every time. Dr. John Delaney is one of the few guys we’ve had on a couple times, Jay Papasan was one of those as well. But just a phenomenal guest. And in that in in this episode, we talked about a choice I had that day. I actually happened to go to a restaurant, I didn’t eat the best in so I was just asking questions on how do we do that, like, I know if I eat better, or I know if I exercise or I know if I save money, whatever it may be. I know if I do those things, but sometimes we still choose just not to do it. Right. And so when I choose that with Dr. John Maloney, he talks about let’s create a new identity. I think so many times we focus on a new goal. But then a goal, you actually stay that same person. A new identity is a new person. So we use the food example, instead of me getting crappy food that day. How am I talking to myself? And he talks about, I’m a guy who is a good steward of his body. I’m a guy who doesn’t eat trash. I’m a guy that does this. I’m a guy that does that. And so when we think about that, for me, again, it was really an eye opener for me is to create a new identity. And that’s what I’ve done this year from, I still got my opportunities from eating. But from an exercise standpoint, at 45, I’m thinking about, again, that long road, right, that 65 year old Brett, well, I’ve got to make the changes today, for my health to get where I want to go at 65 and 75. And people know that around me a lot. My goal is to play golf on my 100th birthday. But I can’t just wake up on my 100th birthday after having 30 or 40 or 50 years of bad stuff going on, and just wake up and play golf. Right, I have to get up do the things now that I want to do. And that was one of my learnings from John Delaney was create a new identity, and then reverse engineer into the actions on what I get to do. So for me, that’s accountability. My accountability is my future greater than your past. My mission. The workout group 6am, on Tuesdays and Thursdays. 13 guys get the text message, whoever shows up shows up. As the weather gets cold, we don’t want to work outside, it’s now send a text message at 6am with a picture of yourself in your gym, wherever you go at your home, wherever you work out, send the picture at 6am for accountability, I need it. Maybe they need it, maybe they don’t. But the end of the day, guess what? I’m working out more. I’ve reverse engineered like John Delaney said, back into my life, the things that I want to do for my own new identity, not my new goal. Okay, hopefully that was very helpful. There with John Delaney. Brian, Brian Bradley, the Egoscue method. Some great exercises, check out their website, they do some phenomenal things as well. But I love this quote, he said your mind will quit far before your body ever will. How true. Right. And again, I keep talking about exercise and working out or going to a client meeting. But no matter what, no matter where you’re at, your mind will quit far before your body ever will. And I find myself doing that on a treadmill. I find myself doing that maybe later in the day at work. Right? That’s my mind. That’s my mind telling me that I’m going to quit. But but but I don’t need to my body will keep going. I can handle it. I can keep going. I can go to that next level. And for me, again, simple quote. But a very profound quote. Lauren Johnson, former performance coach for the New York Yankees. I love this question. She says like, if you’re in a moment, right, you’re having something bad go on in your life, personally, professionally, whatever it may be. What typically helps in moments like this? What typically helps in moments like this. So slow down and think, slow down and think. So if you’re having a bad problem, something’s going on in your life. Grab a journal, grab a piece of paper, write it down. And ask yourself what typically helps in moments like this? Slow down, think, make it happen. Last few. Travis Thomas, man, this was a great guest came into the office. He is the mental performance coach and culture coach for the United States men’s national team, along with the St. Louis Billikens, men’s soccer team. But Travis Thomas said your feelings aren’t an indicator of performance. Again, hah, I got an aha moment. As a guy that plays sports, love sports. Your feelings aren’t an indicator of your performance. What does that mean? Well, how are you feeling right. If the coach asks how you feeling? I feel great. You can go out so a terrible game. How you feel? And I’m nervous. I think these guys are bigger, faster, stronger, and you got to have the best game in your life, the best round of your life. Right? Your feelings are not an indicator of your performance. What you can focus on is what you can get. So what can I focus on if I’m at a soccer game, and I just kicked one over the goal, or I made a really bad play, or you get a red card? When you shouldn’t have gotten a red card and you’re out of the game? What can we do to adapt to make a difference in our lives? A nd he talks about Travis Thomas does live Yes. And so yes, this bad thing happened. And here’s what I’m gonna do about it. Yes, I kicked that ball out of bounds. Yes, I made that bad, you know, presentation. I don’t think I’m gonna get the client. And here’s what I learned. Here’s what I’m gonna do about it. Here’s what I’m gonna do differently next time, here’s how I’m going to use my mind and prepare. So when that opportunity comes up again, I don’t make the same mistake twice. Things are going to happen, bad stuff is going to happen. It’s really how we respond to it. That matters. Helen Appleby. She talked about this. And for me, this is so important. She said, the number one reason she is where she is, is because her dad said to her women can do anything. And I wrote that down, I thought to myself, What are you saying to others? Right, what am I saying to people at home? What am I saying to people in the hallways here at work? Right? What am I saying? Little things that you don’t know, are being heard go a long way. What am I saying to others, her dad said to her women can do anything. So I thought that was pretty amazing. And last, and certainly not least, this was just last week. Windy Sherwin Swire she talked about our energy is as contagious as the flu. Kind of a head scratcher, right? And I think about that it’s so true. You ever walk in a room with somebody with bad energy. You’re walking with somebody don’t know what the energy is like in a room, and you brought the energy. Your energy is just as contagious as the flu. And so my challenge to everybody would be bring the energy that you know, the room needs. It takes just as much energy to be in a good mood as it does a bad mood. And again, I’m not trying to sit around and act like we don’t have things that put us in bad moods, we do. But those things are also choices. Do we spend time and some breath work? Do we spend time going over our notes? Do we spend time going over our goals, things that are important to us, things that can bring the energy back into our body. So then we can in turn bring that energy back to others. So anyway, this is a little bit of a different episode. You know, always happy to share. If you have more comments, questions, write them in and send us emails, talk to us on social media. These things are always very helpful helps us create more and more content. Also share this stuff. These algorithms are built these days. The more shares we get, comments, likes, all that stuff. I hate asking for that stuff. But it’s true. The bigger impact we can make, a future greater than your past right, and more content, the bigger impact that we can continue to make. So share it as much as you’d like. Let us know what you’d like to hear more of. Here’s to an awesome end to 2022 and to a great 2023.

Ryan Duey calls a head on motorcycle accident in Thailand his “greatest gift”. This near death experience catapulted Ryan into a journey of self inquiry, leading him to the jungles of the Amazon, the inside of a float tank, and a commitment to entrepreneurship in the Health and Wellness industry. He is the owner of Capitol Floats and Co-founder of Plunge. He shares a common passion for cold plunging, floating, and building win-win relationships with his business partner, Michael Garrett. Their mission is to make cold plunging as common as coffee. Brett Gilliland 0:52 Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got Ryan Duey with me, Ryan, what’s up, man? Ryan Duey 1:00 Just hanging out at HQ here in Sacramento, California and excited to dive in with you. I love it. Man. You are the co founder of cold plunge. and founder of capital floats, man, it’s it’s amazing. That cold plunge. I watched you guys on Instagram and social media and what you guys have done. We originally connected April 6 of 2021. And I think you said a lifetime has happened since then. Man, yeah. When you said that I was like April 2021. We were. Man, I think we were doing some of our first like, quote unquote, celebrity drop offs. You know, from, from a facility standpoint, we’ve moved into, like three different facilities since then, just like scaling up in size wise. So it’s like, I’m like, wow, we were in this, you know, little 3000 square foot facility back then. Companies really grown up a lot in a lot of different ways. We were still very young. But yeah, really, in that last year and a half. It’s been it’s been a wild ride. And we you know, went on Shark Tank since then. I mean, it’s been a lot. Brett Gilliland 2:07 Yeah, that’s awesome, man. So how did that go? So talk to us about that. Before we go there. Let’s talk about plunge and what your company is and what you guys are about. I mean, I think you need to be under a rock right now, if people didn’t know at least what this cold plunge was or the ice bath or the Wim Hof Method, right. I mean, this stuff’s everywhere, but you guys, in my opinion, have taken it to a whole other level and what you guys have what your product is, it’s amazing. Tell us a little bit about that. And we’ll dive into all this other stuff. Ryan Duey 2:36 Yeah, so us as a company, we launched September of 2020 out of my co founders garage. You know, just start building a few emails some of our other customer base we started delivering those hand units in Northern California and then the company’s just kind of grown like I was talking about earlier. We we build assemble, manufacture cold plunges. We ship them all over the world, mostly servicing in the United States. But yeah, man, Cold is having its moment. Like it’s, you know, Wim Hof definitely paved the way in making this a much more credible thing, not just some crazy person thing. And what’s cool is like, this isn’t that radical of it’s like, people will get in cold water for millennia. You know, this is like a very, like, human, human thing. And now it’s just technologies met some kind of ancient, it’s like a new, you know, ancient ancient modality with a new technology. And that’s what we put together. And it’s so cold to have and it’s mobile, where people are people are using it, people are checking it out. And I think what’s happening is, it’s hit a point where, yes, you have the Dr. Andrew Haberman, it’s the Rhonda Patrick’s that are doing, you know, have done and done some studies, some research is coming out obviously what Wims done, but now more people are doing it and the actual like, like benefits are coming out firsthand. Like people aren’t seeing the documentary of some one person doing it, their neighbors done it and their neighbor saying dude, I’m doing this thing. And they’re sharing their benefits and that you know, it’s radical. The benefits that happen. I go through our reviews all the time. It’s like we get these reviews every day. And I’m like they blow my mind. They literally blow my mind into like, the impact that cold water is having on people’s lives of, you know, whether it’s disease or ailments they’re facing or just more of like a mental health like, making people be a better human like a more happier, vibrant human. Brett Gilliland 4:31 And what why is that? Do you think so? I mean, if those that haven’t it, let me just kind of paint this picture. I’ve done this numerous times. I’m terrible at it. It absolutely is, horrific. It’s painful. Let me back up. It’s not painful. It’s uncomfortable. And, but man every time I’ve done it and I get out, it’s like this euphoric feeling right that you have. us through I’m getting, I’m getting an A, in your example a tub a cold plunge waters can be anywhere from what 33-60 degrees, whatever it is people like and prefer, you’re gonna, I’d probably recommend starting a little warmer and back in your way and i’m assuming you agree with that. So I would say so imagine yourself getting in his bathtub full of ice or just really, really cold water, and not being able to breathe for a while walk us through that, because I will tell you, not to name drop here, but this is a pretty well known name. I was talking to Joe Buck. And he said of all the things that he has, getting into an ice bath like this, is the one thing he does that he actually feels different. When he gets out of it. Right, which I think is that’s a pretty big testimonial is to say that I feel different. Because you may not feel different after you work out you may not feel different if you take that vitamin or whatever it may be. But he said I feel different. So what do you, what do you, what do you think about that? Ryan Duey 5:57 I completely agree. I think it’s it’s one of the most unique modalities that you can get that mood, energetic, hormonal, chemical change in two to three minutes. You know, it’s like, you could do deep breath work, you know, if you want to go in and do some heavy breath work, you could feel different after but you’re exerting a lot of energy. That’s a totally, not everyone’s doing that, you know, workout. I feel better after a workout, if I go do a hard workout for 45 minutes to an hour. But again, I’m 45 minutes to an hour, I’m actively moving my body, it’s like, uh, you know, there’s a lot of work that goes into it, a cold plunge is one of those I gotta do is get in it. Like you said, it’s hard, it’s uncomfortable, and you have to be uncomfortable for the period of time that you’re doing it. But you just got to get at it. You know, I’m not asking you to swing a kettlebell, I’m not asking you to go boxing, I’m not asking you to do the craziest breathwork you’ve ever done. It’s just you just got to get in there and find some level of, of comfort in the discomfort. And I think that’s so I think, to your original question. I think it’s such a quick shift, you go from one state to the other. You’re getting this massive dump of adrenaline into the body. But you’re learning to kind of control it, you’re getting like, you’re it’s, you know, when adrenaline fires up, your body fires up, you you all your circuits turn on like you, you were in a fight you would turn on. And that’s how it is. But this is like in a very controlled environment. So you get this complete light up of the whole circuitry in your body. And your dopamine is just rushing in, and you go in and then but you just lay there and you get it and then you come out and every single time you get this, you are on a euphoric mountain like that’s, that doesn’t stop I’ve been doing I’ve been cold plunging every day for two years. Brett Gilliland 7:48 Does it get easier? Ryan Duey 7:50 No, it like.. Brett Gilliland 7:52 He’s like, No! Ryan Duey 7:53 It does. It does in the sense that, you know, just like any habit that starts to get formed, you just build better consistency with it. My, my excuses. I still make excuses every day. And they are just a little less strong. You know, I can see the I can see through them a little bit more. So you know, in the temp, I still adjust the temp here and there like I was down to 43 and I actually just updated about a week ago to 45 and I’m kind of, I play with my temps a little and kind of where I’m at, I feel a little, a lot on the plate right now, a little stressed out. And so I’m like, kind of play with my stress levels because it is a stressor. It is something you want to be mindful of what’s your, but it’s one of those healthy stressors again, you know, like Huberman talks about and some of these, it’s like adrenaline’s actually, like if we can control our adrenaline that’s actually like really, the major input for a high immune system. But it’s like, you know, you get a lot of people that are running on high red all the time, and then they go on to vacation and they get sick, it’s like well, they don’t have really have a balance of the parasympathetic and the sympathetic, it’s ultimately a nervous system that their body is in one or the other, but you kind of need a dance between the two and cold plunging is that activation that allows you to get a really intense get in that sympathetic state. But it will teach you to breathe and calm your breath down lower your heart rate in a very intense environment. And you do that enough the body starts to adapt to stressful situations. Brett Gilliland 9:23 So talk to us about the science benefit behind it obviously you’re I don’t think you are I’m not a doctor, you’re not a doctor but there’s plenty of science around it. You know, I wear a whoop every day. The whoops, you got ice bath is one of the exercises, if you will, that you can add and so you can see what your heart rates doing, what it’s doing for your stressors your body but, but for our listeners, what’s the science behind this that, even if they don’t, say I’m not gonna go out and buy a cold plunge like the actual tub thing, but I’ve got a bathtub at home. I can throw some cold water and air through some ice. What’s the science that makes this successful for us? Ryan Duey 9:55 Yeah, I mean, I think there’s different levels that, your consistency, how often you do it, you can Get in a cold shower, you know, and turn your turn your shower cold and get that that’s going to that’s going to be a type you, like you said the trough and filling up with ice, you probably can’t do it as consistent but on a one-off getting in there, getting into cold water or you know, you get a plunge-type with a filtration system, and you can do it more often. Science, I mean, really what, to me, the one of the big things that it’s showing is its rate, it’s lowering inflammation like that at the core thing. So everything that comes off of the lowered inflammation is, that’s more optimized people. But the other cool stuff that it is showing is that it’s raising it’s actually raising our baseline dopamine levels. So you know, dopamine into a you know, dopamine can we can receive dopamine from all different activities. It’s the activities that are truly beneficial to us, is when dopamine can actually play a factor and be and be a positive, be a positive chemical for us. So that’s going to be like your focus your motivation. So when people come out of a cold plunge, it’s like you get to hear these comments all the time. Like I feel okay, not even just coming out. This is sustained. If you’re doing this consistency, it’s like I feel capable, I feel more confident, I feel more clear, like that, that’s, that’s dopamine talking in your body. So that to me, is like a massive benefit for people. Um, you know, for me as a guy. Two years ago, right when I was starting to company really kind of in the it was a very stressful time in my life. That was covid. You know, we were six months into the COVID, COVID world. I had my all my, bloodwork done, my testosterone levels were in the dump, like really, really low. Only thing I changed, I did cut out stress, but then I cold plunged, I had a cold plunge in my life, I cold plunge every day. Raised that by 70%. So Brett Gilliland 11:46 wow, Ryan Duey 11:46 like, Brett Gilliland 11:46 just by doing that a couple two or three minutes a day, and cutting out the stress. Of course, Ryan Duey 11:51 that was that was just a very natural way that I tested exactly almost a year later, and that it increased. You know, I had my true age, I’m 36. My immune system within my body with the, through the testing was at 30 years old. So that to me was like another another sign of like having a really healthy robust immune system. You know, another cool one, I did a video recently on Instagram about this, but there’s a study out of Sweden that came out. And it was using cold exposure for as a cancer treatment. And this study was basically looking at, and had been kind of interesting, and no one had really studied it for a while. But they were saying, basically cancer lives off of glucose, so lives off of sugar, you know, the high sugar diet is, you know, the big cause of cancer, if you have cancer don’t want to be taking sugar, and that feeds, that’s what feeds the cancer cells. Anyways, by activating the brown fat one of the fastest ways to activate our brown fat which is like the, it’s babies have, it gives us our big energy. By activating the brown fat within our body, it’s strictly, cold water is one of the fastest ways to turn that on within our body. A lot of this, a lot of us have that suppressed. Well anyways, when you turn on the brown fat within our body, that just starts sucking up glucose. So they found it actually as a suppression, they were testing, they started in mice, and they tested mice and cold conditions and non cold conditions with cancer. They had like a 70, was like a 70% reduction in tumors in the cold mice, to the non and then they brought it into humans. And they saw the very similar thing. And you know, and asterisk with this is that was with a sugar free diet. So again, you know, it’s sucking up the glucose in the system, but you also don’t want to be putting sugar back into your body. So with that again, but that study just came out and they were like, we are actually at a spot where we would recommend this as a treatment for cancer. Like Brett Gilliland 13:54 wow Ryan Duey 13:54 that’s a, that’s a massive statement. So, you know, we all have cancerous cells in our body, it’s at what point is it become like a major impact in our body. So I look at this as a great, like, it’s a great way of prevention in its own way. Whether you have cancer, you’re not like diagnosed with it or not. It’s a great way in our body to you know, have healthy, healthy, healthy cellular levels. Brett Gilliland 14:14 Yeah. Ryan Duey 14:20 like this isn’t really I mean the science there is science on this more that I can’t articulate as well. But it really just teaches us to be calm in stress. You know that’s this is stress is, western world, we have a lot of stress. We have a lot of things coming into us and inputs. And you know, you’ve been in the cold plunge, you kind of said I’m not great at it, but it’s like, you do it you start to learn how to just okay, what, I call it a jungle gym, or a gym, for your nervous system. We go to the gym to get our muscles strong, when you get in a cold plunge to get your nervous system regulated, and learn how to control that and get back into more of a, you know, a homeostasis that between those what they call the parasympathetic and sympathetic systems. Brett Gilliland 15:18 Which have been even the workout though, you talked about doing a 45 minute workout, you talked about reducing inflammation, I mean, it’s also going to speed up your recovery time, for sure. Right? Ryan Duey 15:27 That that is massive. It’s funny, it’s like you just brought that up. And I wasn’t even thinking that that’s like, one of the biggest, I look at that, it’s probably the most like known, but I almost put it down is like six or seven, like you’re gonna get you’re gonna get these muscle recoveries, you’re gonna get the, the, you know, inflammatory reduction. It is, there is an interesting conversation here, though, of like, people cold plunging. Like, do you do this right after your workout? And I think that’s, that’s an interesting, it’s kind of the one subject matter, it’s a little debatable right now of like, do you do it right after because you do want that inflammatory response, after lifting weights, you want your muscles to have a reaction to that. It’s kind of what you’re doing, you’re tearing them down, and then they grow back stronger. So there is this talk that getting in cold water immediately after, could reduce that could recruit, reduce some of the gains that are out there. So anyone listening, if you’re like, super into working out, like strength gains, I would, you know, try and go maybe two hours after a workout, Brett Gilliland 16:25 okay, Ryan Duey 16:25 and then do a cold plunge. And my caveat with that, and I would put myself in this category I like, like to work out. I’m a kind of, you know, self proclaimed athlete, but not training for anything special. My goal is to get up and work out again tomorrow. So, you know, I’m not as concerned of maximizing every day, and I want to feel good, yes, I want to build strength. But I also want to recover and be ready for tomorrow. So that’s not an area that I’m concerned. That’s more of like, let’s say bodybuilders, or maybe even pro athletes into what they’re trying to, I would say pro athletes not in season. I don’t think it’s as big of a deal but pro athletes out of season. They’re trying to maximize. They want, I dont know, want to put in a couple hours between a workout in cold plunge. Brett Gilliland 17:07 Yeah. So what do you think about from a cold therapy versus heat therapy? You know, like, I’m a I have an infrared sauna in my home. I believe in it. I love it. I sweat. It’s it feels great. I mean, what do you what do you like between the cold versus the hot therapy? Ryan Duey 17:24 I love I love them both. You know, I’m not an expert in the heat side of it, of what it’s exactly doing to the body. I mean, there’s just the actual what I love about heat, is I love doing, like, we now have a salt. We have a sauna, at our facility here at headquarters, and it’s become this like ritual, everyone to get off work. And everyone gets in the sun. It’s like the greatest thing like sitting there and you’re sweating. And it’s like, you have really good talk. So it’s like, Brett Gilliland 17:53 yeah! Ryan Duey 17:53 outside of the science and actually what it’s doing, I think it’s a great community piece to like, go and do a sauna with someone, invite a friend over and connect that way. I mean, heat. Yeah, there’s the, if you’re going to mix them both, that’s a, that’s like a very active recovery day. So, I would like anyone that’s like doing cold plunging and saunas, or just even, that’s still a big metabolic process on your body. Like your body is going through kind of a intensity. So I want people to know, it’s like, that’s a calorie crunch. That’s like, that’s a there’s an intensity to that. So it’s a great way to do it on a recovery day. But I mean, I think he is you know, there’s there’s a plethora of benefits. I think Rob Patrick’s probably the leader in that space. Yeah, Brett Gilliland 18:44 yeah, I did cryotherapy for the first time about two weeks ago. And man, I mean, that was like, I did it for, I can’t remember was it three minutes, maybe, I think was three minutes. I thought I was gonna die the first minute, you know. I’m like, literally and then I get out three minutes later, I had to walk down these stairs, my legs wouldn’t bend. But again, that same euphoric feeling, kind of came about the after that. So I went from there, straight to a stream, steam room straight to a sauna. And it was a phenomenal recovery day. My wife and I did it together on her anniversary, and it’s kind of like a little Day-date. And it was incredible. So same kind of thing with cryotherapy. Ryan Duey 19:23 You had to fill so, I mean, I love steam after cold. Brett Gilliland 19:26 Yeah, Ryan Duey 19:26 steamer after the cold is justice, like magical. Brett Gilliland 19:30 no, it was man. We like had lunch. So again, a crowd therapy steam rooms and an infrared sauna. And then we did this launch at this place we’re at I’m like, oh my god, this is unbelievable. This feels, you know? Then eat healthy. I’m like, I’m feeling good about myself. But we can talk about this stuff all day, man and I, on my research, you know, I saw that you called a head on motorcycle accident, your greatest gift. Talk about that man. Ryan Duey 19:56 Yeah, it’s , I had that about 10 years ago. It’ll be 10 years this December 30. I was out in Thailand, was out traveling with a buddy, head on collision two nights before, the night before New Year’s Eve. We ended up spending about three weeks out in a Thai hospital with the kind of reconstructive jaw surgery, a pretty big concussion, had amongst other injuries. And anyways, it was, it was just one of those moments that like as soon as it soon as I came back, Brett Gilliland 20:30 yeah Ryan Duey 20:31 to like, from my concussion that night. I remember turning to my buddy I was like, is the best thing I needed. And it was just one of those moments of like, I don’t really know why I said that at that time. But I sensed that this was going to be this major opportunity to, you know, just go to like a deeper look into my life, what do I want out of life, like kind of, wasn’t in a bad place, I enjoyed my work that I was doing. I like, I was happy with who I was as a person. But it just accelerated some things that I wanted to do in life that were kind of set off into the future. And it just it shook me and put me on a, on a course that was kind of where my life’s at today. Brett Gilliland 21:10 And so, you know, I’m saying, quote unquote, normal job. I think you’d agree me now as an entrepreneur, as a founder of a company, it’s a little bit not normal, right? It’s not your go to work at eight and get off at five and go home and not think about it. You think about it. 24/7 365. And so was that a catalyst for you to start these things like you’re the founder of capital floats, which again, we didn’t even talk about, but as the floating you know, you’re sitting in a in a pod, it’s got the, and you would explain it better than I. But you’ve started that and then you were the co founder of Plunge, for these cold plunges. And so is, was that the journey? That thing that made you go do that? Or what was it? Ryan Duey 21:47 Totally, it was, it, I worked for. I worked for the San Jose Earthquakes and professional soccer cool gig. Just kind of a middle management position there. I loved it. I really enjoyed it. Anyways, I came out, I had really wanted to go down to the jungles of Peru. This was like this big adventure that I had wanted to do to actually sit and work with Ayahuasca’s psychedelic medicine, that’s probably been heard of these days, a little more common, but back then it was a very, very kind of taboo, like not many people were talking about it, it was really weird. I could it, was really uncomfortable, even bring it up to a lot of people in my circle. Anyways, this that was an experience that I had really been wanting to do. But I just like, Oh, you’ll do that later in life. And anyways, this accident was like, No, you’re gonna go do that, like that was it. And I started to a float tank to kind of heal my body from some of the injuries that I had faced from that accident, when I got back to the US. Like they had to kind of work through that to go into my recovery mode. So I started floating, but I was also going to float for more of an introspection, kind of connect to myself, like I’m gonna go down to the jungle, do this very kind of like intrapersonal work down there. And I was like, I need to spend some time in a float tank. And so that was the start. And then very quickly, in the float tank, it was like, Oh, my God, like I love being around this facility. And this environment. It started less as like a, like a great, awesome business idea and more of, I would just love to create this environment and be in it all the time and be around these people. I really was like, I wanted to build this community. And so that was that, you know, very early doing that it came to me I wanted to start this company, but I didn’t I didn’t I didn’t act on it for about a year and a half I went down to the jungle, had a, you know, to say the least, mind blowing experience and just really learned a lot about myself and you know, coming back and yeah, I thought I was gonna go down there quit my job and go start a float center. Well, I got down to the jungle and it was like, no, no, you got, your job is the least of our worries right now we’re going to do some other things to work on. So anyways, I came back, stuck around with the quakes are about and then I started cap float, six months later moved to Sacramento. And that was kind of the beginning of the entrepreneurial journey. And that that was that was a crazy road because that’s how I met Mike. Mike’s the co founder with me on plunge. He’s the inventor of the product. He owns reboot float & cryo, and he has a very similar story. It’s very wild. And, you know, he opened exactly one year before me in the Bay Area. And I was in Sacramento, we just became these float brothers, like, you know, not many floats around and we start hanging out and then we become best buds. And then he just happened to move to Sacramento in April of 2020. And he starts like, you know, we got some time businesses are shut down, this is California. It’s like, you know, this is Brett Gilliland 24:41 right, Ryan Duey 24:42 close your doors, like everyone go home. And so, you know, he started setting out building this product. He’s a world class engineer and starts, you know, building this product in the garage and, you know, so it’s definitely like, this whole journey of like, you talked about that accident. Taking it back there, It was, it was definitely, it’s just interesting how these experiences can you have no clue how it’s gonna play out? Right? But you, you make these declarations, you make these commitments that and just changed the whole trajectory. And I sit here now and it still blows me away sharing the story of like, Wow, all the kinds of synchronistic things that happened along the way. Brett Gilliland 25:20 Yeah, but don’t you think you also gotta be kind of be mindful and paying attention and be willing to take the risk? Because I would assume it would be easier to stay with the soccer team, get a normal job, get a normal paycheck every two weeks, probably some health insurance, probably a 401k. But to trust your gut, leave that go to the uncertain and build something and maybe it works. Maybe you sell a ton of it. Maybe you don’t. Ryan Duey 25:45 I agree. I think the first ones the hardest, like when you when you don’t know what’s on the other side, I think that but as I’ve gone, to me, it’s a bigger risk to not do the thing. Like you know what you’re getting right now. Like, I know what my life is right now. Like, right. So that’s kind of what I’ve, I think that’s the biggest thing I’ve learned. But yes, I think there is. I think it’s really difficult, you know, you know, you could be in a job you make 100k. And it’s like, you got health insurance. It’s like, Man, that’s a good life. That is that and there’s nothing wrong, like, you know, that’s great if you’re, if that works, and there’s there but there’s always sometimes people with that other edge of like, but it’s scary when you kind of have those, you know, it’s things are comfortable and things are stable. But I you know, I think as I’ve gone it’s like that’s such a, it’s such, that’s just not true. Like there’s you know, like, we adapt to the next thing it doesn’t, you don’t just go here then 10 steps down the road. You just take the next step of the direction you want to go and life will, you’ll adapt. We all adapted what we’re really good at as humans. Brett Gilliland 26:50 That’s right. Yeah, we are we are but I’m going to be cold plunging tonight. Speaking of soccer. I’m going to, St. Louis has an MLS team starting in here and next season and so they have a first game ever, their MLS St. Louis City II, like, I guess I call it their minor league team is playing tonight. So, it’ll be about 29 degrees at about game time. And it’ll be outdoors, nice and cold plungey for about an hour and a half, two hours tonight. But Ryan Duey 27:15 that’ll be great. I’m excited for that club to go out there. I mean, the stadium looks incredible. Brett Gilliland 27:20 Yeah! Ryan Duey 27:20 I think it’s, you know, well, well funded team looks like it’s coming together. Well. I’m impressed with what they’re doing. Brett Gilliland 27:27 Yeah, we’re excited. So your mission is to make cold plunging as common as coffee. I read that, I love that, you know, my mission is you can see on my microphone, the future greater than your past. That’s what I want to wake up and do every single day is help people have a future greater than their past. I think that’s what you’re doing through cold plunge. But your mission is to make cold plunging as common as coffee. How are you doing that? So let’s kind of get in the weeds a bit from the business standpoint. If I follow you around from a business standpoint, what am I seeing you do day in and day out to follow your mission? Ryan Duey 27:59 Yeah, I mean, more you ask him personally, or more from a company level? Brett Gilliland 28:04 I think I mean, I kind of it for me, I see it both right, you are the person that’s in the company, obviously, there’s people around you, there’s team, there’s employees, but you’ve got to do something to drive business every day and drive the mission of cold plunging as common as coffee. Ryan Duey 28:20 I think I think from a real practical company level, we’ve really tried to find partners that are aligned with our mission and values. So you know, when I say that, it’s like influencers? Like who are the people out there that we think are putting really good content out there that are impacting people they’re connected to? And I think we’ve done, we’ve done well. And that’s just a big part of what we do. Like how do we get how do we tell a story? I think that’s, that’s the other piece to it is like, we are shifting a bit as a company like everything, everything’s very focused on the two to three minute punch experience. It’s cool, it looks good. It’s it’s it works and but we’re really focused on like, Why do you cold plunge? Like, what? Why would you get in that bath and feel uncomfortable for three minutes? And it’s like, well, maybe you want more energy with your kids. Maybe you want to be a better father, maybe you want to, you know, you know more intimacy with your wife. So testosterone, like all it’s like, what are the stories we’re trying to tell? Like, maybe you have, mental anxiety is a massive thing. You know, we just did a piece with a woman that got off prescription medication, and because she just she wanted to and she started plunging and she plunges two times a day. And this is what she does. And so it’s like, Brett Gilliland 29:33 Wow, that’s incredible. Ryan Duey 29:34 Really. It’s incredible. So it’s, you know, I think for us, like what are we doing day out? We’re trying to tell the story of how we’re still in this realm of education, and it is still such a blue ocean, like yes, people have heard about it, but most people don’t have cold plunges. I mean, not even most like almost every single person. Brett Gilliland 29:51 You’re absolutely right. I mean, it’s very, very few right? And I feel like I’m in this world where I see that and I don’t really know anybody that has one. But I’m hearing more in the last even six months of the normal person talking about cold plunging that you didn’t hear a year ago or two years ago. Ryan Duey 30:08 And I think that’s where it’s going. It’s obviously a bigger purchase, it’s not something you just would add, you know, like, on a whim, you’d go purchase it. So, you know, people need to be sold, like, why am I actually going to use this? Like, is this really worth $5,000 to go impact my life? And what’s really cool is like, we get people that purchase. And yes, that is a big purchase you save for it, or whatever it is to you in your life. It’s rare, I mean, almost non existent where that is. It’s like, we get the we get the testimonies of like, I can’t believe I didn’t do this sooner. I can’t believe I did, I was questioning this. Like, like, the stories are, and that’s what fuels me. I mean, every day, it’s like, you know, running a business. You know, it’s like, there’s challenges. There’s all sorts of things that come and then, you know, I go check our reviews. Literally, that’s what I do. And it’s like, okay, this is cool. This is why we got into this. Yeah. Brett Gilliland 31:06 What’s your favorite story? Any of them come off top of mind, or maybe some recent ones? It was like kind of a mind blower for you? Ryan Duey 31:13 Jeez. Um, well, there’s one cool one we had. I mean, I think of we hired this guy recently. His name’s Michael, he’s to come onto our team really recent. Anyways, he has multiple sclerosis and he has MS. So he, major autoimmune disorder. And he started cold punching has completely got it under control. Come to find out he’s locally with us. He was like blown away that the company was in his backyard, he got a job with us. He’s been on with a couple months. And he’s like a rock star. And it’s like this. And he’s like, on a mission of his life. And it’s like, to me, that’s just one of the coolest. It’s just, I see it every day. I see him in here every day. You know, I did that cancer post, I did that thing on Instagram at a number of people make comments on there of like, like, it was almost like we’ve been doing this, like not knowing, like we’ve been getting in cold water and my cancers went into remission. Like that was a cool one, we had a guy. You know, we’ve had a number of like, COVID, long haulers that like really are struggling, like really having some long term issues, like, you know, no medication, in studies, they’ve come out of it into, you know, I’ve never just having my cold plunge for the short window of time, I’ve seen these results that I hadn’t, I hadn’t gotten from my whoop scores, my whoop scores are now in the green. You know that that’s a massive one. We’re doing a study right now with about 30 people were getting all their levels tested prior and then they’re plunging for 90 straight days. And then they’re getting every, all their bloodwork done again. We’re just starting to get some some of the first group coming through. So we’ll have more of a release of what’s going on there. But life changing, like life changing testimonies of what these people are sharing of, you know, things that are happening for them, but I mean, Brett Gilliland 33:15 like not much other stuff, changing their life, like literally, they’re eating the same, they’re exercising the same, they’re drinking alcohol the same or coffee the same, whatever, right? They’re doing all that and just this one addition, is life changing. Ryan Duey 33:26 And it’s one of those that cause, it’s a ripple, you know, it’s like plunging the great way. It doesn’t have to be the ultimate, you’re so far down your fitness journey, and now you start cold plunging, like cold plunging could be one of the first things in your fitness journey, and it could actually accelerate all your other stuff that you’re working on. You know, it’s great for metabolism and fat loss. You know, and it just, you Your days are different when you cold plunge so it’s going to set you want a little different trajectory of maybe saying no to the thing that you’ve been struggling with or you know, it’s not a cure all. Definitely don’t want to sell is as that but it does, It is, yes, it is a great I’d see it as you know, the story I want to tell is like this is a great starting point for people on a fitness journey. Not someone that’s already kicking ass on on fitness. Brett Gilliland 34:17 Yeah yeah, so last few questions here. And you know, so if I followed Ryan Dewey around what am I seeing on your habits from a personal development side? From a maybe a personal growth side like personal development, but also exercise and business habits? What am I seeing kind of no-miss items that happen every day for you? Ryan Duey 34:38 Yeah, I think it’s cold plunging. I have a trainer that has been a huge hack for me, grateful I can do it. I have a trainer that shows up in my house every morning now. So, that’s been like, first thing in the morning, I have that. Brett Gilliland 34:50 And then you get a different plan for – You’re gonna do this way, you’re gonna do this cardio thing, you’re gonna do that movement type deal. Ryan Duey 34:56 Yep, he rocks it for me and you know, it’s one of those Uh, I always feel like we have so much brain power a day. And I like to put it all to plunge and you know, to some of my personal life and weights is something that’s like I just show up and he puts me through it and I do my workout. So that’s a that’s a key, key piece to me. You know and then Brett Gilliland 35:20 sorry to interupt, but that allows you, you believe, that the plunge and then you’re working out, that allows you to be a better, you know, founder of a company and a better leader, a better whatever in your personal life. Ryan Duey 35:31 Totally. It’s one of those it’s just those wins. You know, mornings are such a crucial time. I kind of can slug around in the mornings mornings can be tough for me. Well, it’s just like, I’m accelerated, I’m accountable, I have a trainer that’s there I got to get out of bed. The plunge, you know, three minutes in there boom, I’m ready to go like. So, that, those two things are essential. You know, business like groups I just joined like an executive coaching group that was yeah, I’m really excited on and kind of some other founders in E-comm, health and wellness space. So that’s kind of a spot for me. Mike and I really work hand, you know, it’s nice to have a co founder so I could really bounce you know, we co CEO, the company so bounce a lot of stuff off of him. And then yeah, I mean, outside of that, like the days can fluctuate you know, I’d say we’re looking at an actual calendar Tuesday, Wednesday. These days are packed, you know from basically 9am I don’t I don’t attribute, me, I don’t look at anything before nine, it’s like a big thing for me kind of like my time that I work and then. But nine, to nine to five is I’m locked in and then I like to leave like Mondays and Fridays more for creative days. That’s what I’m working more on the storytelling I’m talking about partnership conversations. So it’s kind of how the current flow of the week is and I’m always adapting and trying to try to evolve it a bit more Brett Gilliland 37:01 Yeah, that’s awesome man so what our listeners find more of you where our listeners find more of your your your company, Plunge, where can we find that? Ryan Duey 37:10 Yeah Plunge, just type in Cold Plunge, we should show up but thecoldplunge.com is the is the domain. We’re on Instagram as the cold or just typing cold plunge will pop up. I mean, anywhere you type in cold plunge we should show up. t’s an interesting thing the company’s called plunge we’re actually going through a bit of a rebrand right now to kind of really bring clarity on that because we’ve been cut, you know, it’s like a cold plunge, cold plunge or plunge so company name Plunge but typing cold plunge we’ll show up. And then you know, we have for me personally, Ryan, Ryan Duey on Instagram. It’s k ind of where I’m most active have a podcast called the journey with Ryan Duey. So that’s, that’s going, you can find that on, you know, Spotify, Apple, wherever that’s at. So yeah, those are the spots and yeah, Brett Gilliland 38:02 I love it, man. So last question for you got this person listening right now. They need a little pep talk, then they need a pep talk, man, they need the locker room speech, they need to get fired up to go out for the second half of their life. What do you tell them? That person that you maybe you wish you knew 10 years ago? What advice are you telling them on how to bet on themselves? And in areas like that? Ryan Duey 38:24 I mean, I’m going to talk to myself right now. It’s like, you know, what are you waiting for, like, whatever the thing is that you even think you want to go do like, literally this could end tomorrow, like it, it could end tomorrow, and any it’s all gone. And whatever you think you have to lose, it’s never it’s never quite what you think like, you know, if you got a family, you got to like, the biggest thing with struggle is if your kids didn’t see you go after something like that’s something I always think about, like with my family that I grew up in. And the last piece that I say to anyone that like is questioning like, do I know enough? Am I there? Do it! It’s like having been talking to some very high level. It’s like nobody knows what the hell’s going on. Like, and, you’re, everyone’s just figuring out the person you admire, the person you think has it all figured out. They’re just figuring it out as they go. Like, they might think they have this incredible plan but nobody actually knows what’s going on. And anyone that thinks they have the best plan. They’re just adapting as they go. So I say that more is an encouragement to not get like caught up into this perfectionism place like that’s just the game you’re gonna go figure it out. You can go figure it out! Brett Gilliland 39:39 Amen, brother. Amen to that well Ryan It’s been awesome having you on the circuit of success podcast man and if you’re ever in the St. Louis area stop by we’ll take the cold plunge Ryan Duey 39:49 I should be out there Brett Gilliland 39:50 when? Ryan Duey 39:51 I’m gonna be actually be out there next weekend. That’s crazy. Brett Gilliland 39:55 Well, you look me up, man. Let’s connect. Well, after we record here, we’ll connect here for a minute but man has been awesome. Having you on the Circuit of Success brother Ryan Duey 40:02 Awesome man appreciate it! Brett Gilliland 40:12 *Outro*