The Circuit of Success Podcast with Brett Gilliland

We sit down with Coach K, as his team calls him, who leads his girls’ basketball team to win the state championship. Coach K touches on the experiences throughout the successful season, from the beginning to the big game. This last season has proved to be a significant one, his Lady Panthers set a school record in wins with 34-4 and were the 4A champions this year! Listen as he discusses the team dynamic, as well as the highs and lows of the entire season and the emotional moments of the state championship game. Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got a state champion coach with me. Nick Knolhoff, how you doing?  Nick Knolhoff: I’m doing great. Thanks for having us.  Brett Gilliland: Anything exciting happen lately?  Nick Knolhoff: It’s been a whirlwind, you know, ever since we won a couple weeks ago, and, you know, the girls have been so recognized in getting these, all these accolades, so it’s been great to see them get all this praise for what they’ve done. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, it’s awesome. We got a number of the girls here and, uh, maybe we’ll get them up here later. You think? Should we… Nick Knolhoff: I think we should. Brett Gilliland: Should embarrass them a little bit.  Nick Knolhoff: Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: Get ’em in here. Get, get the assistant coach in here as well.  Nick Knolhoff: Yes, yes. I mean, what and what a first year she walked into, you know, first year. Brett Gilliland: First year?  Nick Knolhoff: Assistant with me. Yes.  Brett Gilliland: Well, I think it’s, you’re the, you’re the reason then, right?  Nick Knolhoff: She was, she was the missing factor.  Brett Gilliland: She was the missing factor. That’s right. Well, I’m gonna call you coach, if that’s all right.  Nick Knolhoff: Yeah, no problem.  Brett Gilliland: So, uh, if you can coach, maybe for those that are listening to this or watching this right now, that may not know exactly who you are, but they followed the run. I know for me, I didn’t have a kid on this team, but I, I know a lot of the girls on the team and, uh, and I’m sitting in a hotel room for my son’s soccer game. I’m in Indianapolis, Indiana. It’s pouring down rain and I’m in a hotel room and my eight year old and I are watching the game and we’re going crazy. It was awesome. So it was a semi-final game, uh, and then got to come back and then I was at an event. Uh, for a, a gala charity event. And when, uh, Ms. Shannon here made two free throws to go to overtime, I may have screamed Yes. Really loud in the event when I was supposed to be quiet. So, uh, that had that going for me. But again, so if you can Coach K, tell us just a little bit about you. What’s made you, the man you are today, you’re upbringing, all that kind of stuff, if you will.  Nick Knolhoff: Yeah. Um, ever since I’ve been little, um, I’ve been in a gym. My dad was a coach for 20 years. Um, he was at West Junior High, uh, which is a junior high in Bellville for like 16 years. Um, and everything I can remember of being over there in that gymnasium watching my dad coach hanging out with his players. Um, then he went on to coach at Althoff with Greg Leeb and then he was at Bellville East doing freshman for them. So I’ve just always been involved in around basketball my entire life. With that being said, it’s part of the reason why I became a teacher, um, because I just knew I wanted to be a coach. Um, so I’m in my 15th year, uh, Wolf Branch School. Awesome. I’m the athletic director there as well. Uh, that’s where I began my coaching tenure. I did that for about eight years there, doing the boys and the girls. And then I got my first varsity job over at Althoff Catholic, um, for two years. And then this position became available and the rest is history. I’ve been here six years now at O’Fallon.  Brett Gilliland: Oh, that’s amazing.  Nick Knolhoff: Yes.  Brett Gilliland: And didn’t I see, uh, recently six coaches of the year awards? Uh, ever since I’ve taken over at O’Fallon Yes. I’ve won the I B C A Coach of the Year for the last six years.  Nick Knolhoff: Yeah. Brett Gilliland: That’s amazing. My kids go to a Althoff, so if that’s okay.  Nick Knolhoff: Yeah, no, I, I, they, you know, they gave me my first opportunity. Um, so I. Love everything about Althoff.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s awesome. So, and your dad now, I think, was with you on the court, right?  Nick Knolhoff: He was, he’s now retired. Um, he has all the time in the world. He just wants to be around the sport and coach with me again. So he sits on the bench with me. Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: That’s incredible. So, and you played, uh, basketball growing up? I assumed didn’t just coach… Nick Knolhoff: You know, I wasn’t very good. Um, I knew what to do, I just didn’t have the athletic ability. Part of that is I can envision things on the court, um, which allows me as a coach that I can see things form. Um, I think the best aspect I have is my X’s and O’s during game times, and I kind of see a couple plays ahead. Um, but other than that, you know, I played at East, didn’t get much playing time, and then I did play JV basketball at McKendry. Brett Gilliland: Okay, nice. And how long ago was that? I’m just kidding. You don’t have to answer that. Um, and so when you think about the basketball this year, I mean, you’ve obviously been around it, you’re basically your whole life, like you said. Um, what was the biggest learning and some of the biggest turning points for you when you think about this season, the run that you’ve all had and the, the rec, what was the record again?  Nick Knolhoff: We were 34 and four. Brett Gilliland: So 34 and four. Phenomenal record. Uh, I remember going to the, uh, the game in Alton, or I mean here in O’Fallon against Alton. I mean, the house was packed. It was awesome. But what, what did you. About these girls and about basketball and just about the game, uh, this season? Nick Knolhoff: Their leadership, their character, everything just kind of fell in line this year with these girls. Um, you know, I’ve had these seniors for four years now. Um, we did have a great team during Covid, um, that we didn’t get a chance to make this run. Um, and so they kind of saw the writing on the wall that this could be their last opportunity with the type of talent that we had this year. Um, but as far as team chemistry, you know, I’d always said our secret sauce is our team chemistry. These girls get along with each other on the court, off the court. They’re competitive. We’re able to have competitive practices, but then they can turn around and be best friends.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Nick Knolhoff: Um, it from the start of the season to the end of the season, we really didn’t have the internal bickering or, or, or, we had a lot of camaraderie, um, and it just kind of seemed to flow and I just kind of saw like, okay, we’re getting along, we’re starting to click at the right time. We really do have a chance to make a run here.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s amazing. So when you saw that, obviously you had, uh, some, I think a couple mid-season losses, right? That were not supposed to happen.  Nick Knolhoff: So our four losses were five or less points. So we’re talking two possessions in these games. Um, we were very close and could have probably ran the table. Um, and I know they would’ve loved that, but, you know, I hate to say it, but sometimes the loss helps you. Um, and we put a schedule together that challenged them. You know, I think we had seven games where teams were in the Final Four, whether they’re in Missouri or Illinois. You know, we played Oakville, we played Mater Dei, we played Peoria. We got third at State in Illinois. We played vsan, we played, uh, Cape Notre Dame who got fourth. And I think three A. And then we also played Eureka, who got fourth and six A in Missouri. So we played championship level talent all year. And then we traveled to Evansville, Indiana to play one of the top teams there. They were 25 and one when they got upset in the second round there. You know, they thought it was their year too and they got upset and that happened. Um, but we went and traveled to their place to play the best teams this year.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. What did you do as a leader? Um, from the culture standpoint, you know, for me, from a professional standpoint, culture’s huge, right? It’s, there’s really not much else you can say about culture other than it’s one of the biggest things for our entire company. And so I would assume it’s the same whether it’s at a school or on the team, but what did you learn about culture and how did you, as the leader, put that into those girls? Nick Knolhoff: I’m still trying to, and they do a great job. Um, you know, Mr. Molar, our AD at o’Fallon has great pillars, um, you know, compete fiercely, lead boldly and love strong. And I truly do try to build on those within the program. Um, you can compete and, but you can also compete and lose games and then they need to know how to lose as well. Um, you can lead boldly and I try to push that onto them to where they’re leading each other sometimes. Which is necessary for when they leave the program cuz you know, you’re not, basketball’s not always gonna be around and then love strong. You know, I tell the girls all the time that I love ’em. I’m their biggest fan. Um, one of the knacks on me, I can tell you is that people say I’m not hard enough on them sometimes. Um, but I’m not that type of old school coach. Uh, I think girls need to hear a lot of positive reinforcement as well, and I try to tell them things that they do well. And just kind of gain the respect through that aspect. Brett Gilliland: You think they’d agree with that?  Nick Knolhoff: I do. I really do.  Brett Gilliland: Like, I don’t know if some of those practices, maybe, maybe not, but, and, and so obviously, you know, I’m looking at that some of these girls here and you’ve got, you know what two that are going to play Division one basketball, I think, is that right? Two?  Nick Knolhoff: Yes, yeah.. Brett Gilliland: And then, and any others going to play basketball? I know one’s going to play softball. I mean, so you had quite the talent on the team this year, and how did you get that to come together and mold it to where you don’t have that one person that just says, this is all about me.  Nick Knolhoff: We, they really understood their roles. You know, it’s, it’s probably one of the first years where I didn’t have to have a, a player-coach meeting or a parent coach meeting. Um, they just kind of bought in and they were the biggest fans of each other. Um, they knew who we wanted to get the ball to in certain situations, you know, Shannon Dows going to Illinois State. Jay Lapelle is going to Indiana State. You know, Malia’s going on a college scholarship and Layla Jackson’s going to, um, University of Illinois Springfield. And you know, one of my biggest challenges this year was I kind of started to start two freshman there at the end over two seniors. And I was like, worried about how that’s gonna play out. And you know what? They took it under their wing. They became the biggest fans of each other. And you can see ’em. I go back and watch these state games where my seniors have their hands around them. They’re, they’re helping ’em on the. Um, it’s just really good to see that they kind of stepped up into that role as well for them. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And you can’t teach that, man.  Nick Knolhoff: No, you cannot.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. What, um, so talk about, uh, kids, uh, and parents in today’s world. So let’s maybe turn the page from a little bit, we’ll come back to the girls, uh, basketball team now, but talk to us about parents and maybe what we can do better. I’m a father of four boys. Um, you know, that, that after the game talk in the car, uh, the practice, I’m a big believer and let the coach, coach, I mean, you know, one of the kids here, Claire, you know, her dad, Steve’s coach, my kids basically their whole life. And, you know, I don’t call him and complain or do this stuff and it, that’s just what I believe. Um, but what, what is your thought on that and what would advice would you have for those parents that are watching right now.  Nick Knolhoff: You know, you have a tough loss or you’re, you’re on a losing streak. The girls are already hard on themselves. The parents are hard on ’em. There’s no reason for me as a coach to be hard on them as well. And my belief is coaches are human too. You know, the game is fat. Basketball is fast paced. Yeah. It’s not like baseball where you can do a double switch. I make decisions and changes on the fly. And sometimes they’re the wrong one. Sometimes we do things wrong as well. Yes, I can hear the chatter. You know, there’s always 350 coaches in the stands, questioning what you do. Um, but you just gotta believe in yourself that what you are doing is right for the team, not that individual player. And that what you are doing is right for your team going forward. And yeah. Uh, today, Today’s day and age, it’s very hard to be a coach because you get questioned on everything you do. Same as a teacher. Um, parents do feel like they have a say, which they do. And, um, which is really difficult when they try to confront a coach after a well fought game. That you may have came out on the losing side on, um, I just really wish, you know, they took a step back themselves and realized, would anybody like it if they came and questioned them during, their, whatever their profession is.  Brett Gilliland: Come in my office here and question me, right. Nick Knolhoff: Right, right. Um, the girls give everything they have and I tell ’em, you can only control what you can control. Can’t control if the ball’s not going in that night. Um, but you can maybe play better defense or you can give better effort, but there are things we as coaches do that we make mistakes during certain games. And that’s just the human aspect of the game. Yeah. And we don’t need to be necessarily criticized for it all the time.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So the, the hence the name of this podcast, the Circuit of Success. There’s, there’s four things that I believe is, is your attitude, your belief system, the actions that you, you take every single day, and then ultimately the results you get. Right. So the result was state championship, we got the result.  Nick Knolhoff: Yes.  Brett Gilliland: Fair? Nick Knolhoff: Yes.  Brett Gilliland: Okay. We got the result. So when you hear the word attitude, talking to these girls, but talking to other people, watching or listening to this, what, what’s, what would you say when you hear the word attitude? Nick Knolhoff: Uh, you reflect how your attitude based on your body language and practice, and it’s not about you, it needs to be about your teammates and your team, and you can portray your attitude based on how you are verbally or non-verbally doing that in practice. Um, you gotta have a good attitude about everything. Um, there are teams where sometimes they go on a losing streak, you know, how are you gonna react to that? So you’ve gotta have a great mindset. To be able to achieve what we are able to do.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I call it the bounce back theory. I, I have seen, I’ve been in business for 22 years, that the, the people, the most successful people that I’ve had the fortune to be in around, um, they bounce back really, really quickly, right from negative stuff. Whether it’s a missed shot or a bad presentation at work, they bounce back really, really quickly. So when you hear me talk about that, Do you have any thoughts on this season? Anything like that, that could say, here’s what happened. We bounced back and we changed our attitude and we changed it pretty quickly. Nick Knolhoff: It’s funny you said that too, because, uh, I would say that to them in the locker room, um, after a loss, you know, in the Highland tournament, in the Macu tournament, it’s tough to have that bounce back game to play for third place. You know, that’s not the game you want to be in. But you gotta be able to bounce back. You gotta not have a losing streak during the season. That’s a goal now that we have, is that we are not gonna go on a two game losing streak and bounce back. Um, things aren’t going your way. You lose your starting spot, you’re losing some minutes. How is that gonna affect you? Or is your attitude still gonna be there for your teammates and help them out and to be honest, um, there were a couple scenarios throughout the year that it challenged me and it challenged them, but they were able to bounce back and have great attitudes for the most part, for the entire year.  Brett Gilliland: And so when you hear the word now belief, so the second circuit on the circuit of success is the word belief. When you, when you hear that word, what comes to mind? Number one. But number two, I think what you said earlier is, you know, there’s 350 coaches in the stand. What I heard there was a strong belief system in yourself and in your coaching ability, right? So what do you, what do you hear when you, when you hear the word belief? Nick Knolhoff: You just gotta believe in them. Um, and that’s the only way that you can go as far as we did, is that they also have to believe in you. Everything that you are doing in your program. And I’m talking off the court stuff, you know, how do you relate to them in practice? How do you get to know them outside of the game of basketball? Um, can they believe in you and trust you in those situations that they’re going to respect you? And I tried to tell them all the time, you know, in timeouts, you’re never gonna see emotion in my face as like panic mode. I’m under composure. Funny story too, in the state game we were losing and, uh, I, and during the time out, and the lady actually said it on the, on the NFHS. I told them, um, first of all, I asked them if they’re having fun and we were losing. Uh, the second thing I said, well, you don’t want it to be easy. You want it to be hard because everything that you want has to be hard because then the end, it’s more satisfying when you do get what you want. So in the third quarter there, um, that’s exactly what I told them. They believed in what I said, and they were able to pull it out. Um, just over the top thrilled of these girls and how proud I am of what they accomplished.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So then the, the, the third one is action. Um, we have to take action, right? You gotta show up on days you don’t wanna work, you still gotta do it, right? You gotta, you gotta show up, you gotta work on the free throws, you gotta, in the boardroom at work, whatever it may be. You gotta hear that. So, um, action. What’s that mean to you? Nick Knolhoff: You know, like right now, I already sent out our June schedule for next year. Um, it’s, it never ends. It’s yearly, you know, we’re already going into June. You know, but from November 1st to March 1st, when these girls, five months is a long time to spend together every single day.  And there are the dog days of practice where like you got the injuries, you’re not feeling well, you don’t want to be there. You got other things on your mind outside of basketball with family or friends or school. Um, it’s just a grind. Um, but we were able to continue to put everything together. Put it, put what we were thinking, our goals into action. You know, one of our goals was to be undefeated at home. We start small, you know, uh, we wanted to win against the team that was state ranked. Uh, we wanted to win a regional again for the third time. We wanted to win a very first sectional in O’Fallon history. And then from there everything was brand new to us and they just kind of went all the way. Brett Gilliland: So how did that process go? Was that you deciding that as the head coach is that you come to practice and look at them and say, Hey, let’s create our goals and what are they like? Share with us how you do your goal planning. Nick Knolhoff: At the beginning of each season. I find a couple of clips, um, motivational clips, um, to show them and kind of how I want the season to go and just to motivate ’em a little bit. And then I make them come up with a theme for the season. Last year, or sorry, two years ago, I showed him the Ernie Johnson, the I Love You clip that he gave to Alabama football team.  Brett Gilliland: Yep.  Nick Knolhoff: And we’ve kind of broken every huddle since then for two years doing that. Uh, just, I, I love you. We do everything for each other. Um, and that’s actually going to be on our state ring as well, cuz that means something to them. Um, and I sent that to Ernie Johnson and he replied back to me in a dm and he FaceTimed the girls, surprised them before one game, uh, two years ago. Um. Brett Gilliland: That’s cool.  Nick Knolhoff: It was awesome. And, and then I also showed a clip saying, good, you know, if things happen to you, just say it’s good. If you lose, it’s good If something bad happens, good. It’s meant to be that way. Um, and this year, um, they came together, my seniors came together and they, they put move as one with like a chain link. You know, we’re gonna do everything together. We’re gonna, we’re gonna win as one, we’re gonna lose as one. Um, we’re coming together as a, a tight-knit unit and playing for each other.  Brett Gilliland: And let’s walk through that state championship game. So, double overtime , right. Double overtime win. Shannon, what you had what 0.5 seconds left, or what was left on the clock when she had to make those free throws. You remember exactly. You probably remember exactly. Nick Knolhoff: In in regulation.  Brett Gilliland: In regulation. I’m, I’m sitting here watching it on the screen. I’m nervous.  Nick Knolhoff: So actually, so what happened was we ran a, we ran a play and we turned it over. Surprisingly, you know, I looked back at that game and to be honest, I think their coach lost them the game um, because it was so loud, we had turned the ball over. I’m screaming foul. We have to foul. We have to foul. And their coach takes the timeout with like 30 seconds to go when we were gonna foul, they just, no one on the court could hear me. Yeah. Um, so then they have to inbound the ball. We lost track of a girl somehow and they got a wide open layup. And miss the layup, you know? Otherwise, if they don’t shoot that we’re fouling, they’re shooting free throws. They might be up four, so then we get a run out. Shannon gets fouls with like 17 seconds to go and with ice in her veins, she just knocks ’em both down. You know, cuz in that timeout we talk scenarios. She makes one, here’s what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna go for a steel cross half court, then we need to foul. She makes ’em both. We’re just gonna play it straight up and see how it goes. She makes ’em. Luckily, Beaumont comes down and doesn’t hit a shot and sends it to overtime. Um, and then in the first overtime, um, they got up three and they were boxing one on Shannon and we ran a play called Loop. I had her kind of be the one in the corner where she comes up to either pass it back to Layla for a three or then to Josie for a three. And then somehow in that we didn’t get a shot, but the girl left Shannon. And Layla drove and dished it to dj, and I don’t know how demise saw it, but she whipped it out to Shannon in the corner and nailed that three. I don’t know how she saw it either. But she saw you and why the girl left you? I have no idea.  Brett Gilliland: Right, exactly.  Nick Knolhoff: Because it was a boxing one for her. Um, and she drilled it, and then we had to pray in hope that Beaumont didn’t hit another shot. Yeah. And then we, we won it in double overtime. Brett Gilliland: Oh gosh. Incredible. Incredible.  Nick Knolhoff: You know, everyone, everyone I talked to, like you said, we love the support of everybody that actually tuned into the game and watched it. And everybody that has spoken to me said I couldn’t sit down. I was like three feet from the tv. Like it was that good of a game that people were on the edge of their seats standing up and just now that you know, the scoring can look back at it, it’s like, oh, awesome. I know what’s gonna happen here. But in the that moment, I can only imagine what people were watching the game. You know, because it was a blur to me on the sideline, you know? I’m just taking it all in and I’m just, I was satisfied that we got to that game. Um, winter Lowe’s, I was just over the moon joyous. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yes. I think talk about the community too. Cause I mean, we talk about, that’s one of the values of our firm, Visionary Wealth Advisors is community. And, uh, I, I’m a believer if you make a living… cause that was actually an Althoff gala, and I’m sitting at a table, you know, there’s eight or 10 people at our, at our table and it’s coming down to crunch time. I’ve got my little phone up propped against, you know, a little flower thing or something. There’s people from, you know, Althoff that are coming and watching that game, right? We’re all watching, everybody’s going crazy and it, it is just really cool to think. But that does, for the Commu Fallon right now, there’s a lot of a Fallon people that can still go to Althoff. But what it does for the area, yeah. I mean it’s huge. Right? So what does that mean to you and what does it mean for the community to win a state championship?  Nick Knolhoff: It’s, it’s awesome. Cause I can remember when the Althoff Boys team with Jordan Goodwin and them when I was coaching there, and just everybody was tuned into that game for the area and then our Bellevue West Boys and then the East Side Boys. The same year 3A and 4A. Yeah. From 6 180 1. And then you had Oakville and Mater Dei and us able to pull it off in the same year. Um, it’s just awesome to see, even hear from people that I wouldn’t even think that would even care.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Nick Knolhoff: About girls basketball, let alone O’Fallon that you hear from and all the emails and all these random texts. I didn’t even have like people’s numbers in my phone and like, congrats coach. What an amazing season. Um, it’s just awesome to see for these girls that this area, you know what, we’re not the tight-knit community like a, like a Breese Central, you know, or these smaller towns like Oakville, but O’Fallon so large. Um, but when something like this happens, you know, I saw the, the camera footage, how packed first Street lounge was like that just. It, it meant so much to me and for them to, that that many people cared to watch them play in the state championship game.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I I think it’s cool too cause they, they don’t know this yet cuz they’re young and they just, they just did it. But when they’re old, like, I don’t hold you, but, and you’re old like us. Right? I mean, this is something you can never take away from somebody.  Nick Knolhoff: No.  Brett Gilliland: Right. So, so what, what would you tell them? That they can say that forever they are a state champion.  Nick Knolhoff: I, I told him, I go, it’s probably not gonna hit you for another five or 10 years. This is a little, an ultimate lifetime goal that people dream of and never get the chance to do it or get to that, even get to that event. You know, just being at Red Bird Arena. And just being part of the state championship series of the Final Four was in itself a dream goal. And then to be able to play in the championship game and win it. It’s, it’s an unbelievable feeling. You know, I think about all of the coaches that are in the Hall of Fame right now that had never even won a state championship. Um, it’s just now I hope that we’ve gotten a taste of what it’s like and, uh, and for years to come, you know, we can kind of try to replicate that and, you know, hopefully make it a little bit of a dynasty in O’Fallon. You never know. You know, you get past an Alton next year in a sectional and you can make a little run again. I mean, we got an opportunity where I think we can do it two years in a row and get back there, so. Brett Gilliland: That’s amazing. So I think expectations are big too, and they wanna open up for questions if they have any, or if we can convince anybody to come up here as well. Um, but when you think about your expectations now is you won a state championship, right? I’ve done some things in business and it’s like, okay, now the expectation’s high.  Nick Knolhoff: Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: So how do you come stay cool, calm, collective, and, uh, not, I’m not sure. Show up next season.  Nick Knolhoff: Yeah. I’m not sure I’m there yet. You know, when I took over the program, I was looking back at previous years and like they had four winning seasons in the last 12 years before I took over. So one of my goals was we’re gonna, let’s win 20 games. And then we did that my first year, like okay. And we lost the regional up at Chatham Glenwood. I’m like, okay, next year let’s win 20 games and win a regional, you know, has been since 2007, since O’ Fallon’s won a regional and just kind of upped my goals of not only my coaching self, but for the team and just kind of see how far they go and kind of goes along with what I do at practice, you know, um, I throw a lot of stuff at them. We have probably more sets than three teams combined. Um, but it’s like anything, the more you throw at ’em, the more they adapt, the more they learn, why not just continue to throw more at ’em just to see what they can do? So I challenge them all the time, um, with offensive sets and things that we’re gonna be doing in games. You know, what would you do if I was playing against you? How would I scout you? How would I guard you? And I try to tell them that kind of playing the other advocate, what are these teams gonna be doing against you. Um, so as far as going forward, you know, we most wins we’ve ever had. Um, Shannon broke the single season scoring record. She broke the all time scoring record. Um, Kelly broke the assist record. Um, I’m not really sure how you can top this season, um, but we’re gonna try, um, because I do think that we have so much talent still in the program. Um, but I don’t think it’s that we need to hold next year’s season or the seasons after to this one. This was just a unique season. Each season has its own goals, um, and I think we’ll still be able to accomplish those next year with next year’s team. Brett Gilliland: I love it. I love it. Do you think we can get anybody to come up here? Yeah. And say a few words? Nick Knolhoff: I, I would like Coach Bitner to come up here first year and just kind of talk about what she thought of the program in her first year. Brett Gilliland: He’s totally called her out and she’s gonna make it happen. Nick Knolhoff: Come on up here, coach B Brett Gilliland: I like that it’s not, So Coach B, where did you, uh, where did you come from? You, uh, this is your first year at O’Fallon, so where, where did you come from to, uh, to join us?  Coach B: I, uh, we lived up by Chicago, by St. Charles. Okay, sure. And so we moved back about five years ago and I um, I taught up there and I coached boys and girls basketball up there. And then I, um, stayed at home with, took care of my kids for five years and then found the job at O’Fallon and this basketball position came open and I, um, inquired about it so. Brett Gilliland: And do you teach in O’Fallon as well?  Coach B: Ahuh, yep.  Brett Gilliland: Okay. So teach at O’Fallon and, uh, and now coaching basketball.  Coach B: Yes.  Brett Gilliland: Now, are you the secret sauce then, if it’s your first year and you win a state championship? Coach B: No, I am not the secret sauce, but I have it. It was an amazing first season. Um, the, the best basketball team I’ve ever been a part of, I feel very lucky. I’m so proud of all the girls. Uh, it’s just a, it’s been a phenomenal experience. Um, coach was talking about the texting and the people messaging you and I had you know, playing basketball at, I, congratulations. You did it for all of us. I mean, it is just a dream if you, if you’re an athlete, um, you know that that’s the ultimate goal and for it to actually come to fruition is amazing. So it’s just a feeling that it’s, it’s not really ever gonna go away, I don’t think.

Laurie Wintonick is the current CEO of JI Elite Coaching. Laurie has extensive experience in strategic planning and event planning. Throughout her life, she has had a passion for helping and supporting others and is now helping individuals find balance in all aspects of their lives. Laurie discusses what it means to her to be ‘boringly consistent’ in her journey to making herself a priority. https://youtu.be/xBDDnBBNL4o Brett Gilliland: Welcome to The Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’ve got Laurie Wintonick with me. Laurie, how you doing?  Laurie Wintonick: I’m doing great, Brett. How are you?  Brett Gilliland: I’m doing great. You’re in New Jersey. What part of New Jersey? I didn’t ask that part. Laurie Wintonick: Yeah, I’m actually, you know, central, northern New Jersey. It’s really northern New Jersey cuz you know, there’s the argument whether Central Jersey, central Jersey exists or not. But I am in, um, the northern part of central Jersey in Colonia, um, about half hour, 45 minutes from New York City, half an hour from the beach, an hour from the mountains and yes.  Brett Gilliland: Beautiful. You got anybody in the uh, Super Bowl we may be rooting for this weekend? Laurie Wintonick: Not really. Not really. I was kind of, I mean, I’m a Giants fan. I, I Jersey, I’m a Giants fan, uh, sorry Jets. But, um, I was really hoping that the, the Chargers were gonna make it in this year. Um, yes, Kyle Vannoy is a, is a, um, a. Someone that I’ve worked with and I was really hoping for him and his team to get in. So I was kind of bummed when that didn’t happen. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yep. They had a good season but didn’t, didn’t get, uh, quite far enough. So you are the CEO of JI Elite Coaching, uh, which is Jesse Itzler. Uh, which for those of you that are on social media, Jesse is a phenomenal follow and, uh, but you run his coaching program. Uh, which we’ll talk about. And, uh, but you’ve been an executive before and, and you, what’d you, what I see you called yourself a, an avid uh, no, a serial volunteer. Uh, loving to do all that stuff, but, uh, but really helping tons of people with the coaching that you all do out of the JI uh, Elite Coaching program. But before we dive into that, Laurie, if you could just kind of give us a lay of the land on what’s made you, the woman you are today. Laurie Wintonick: Really strong foundation of family really is what is, is where I’m gonna start. So I grew up, um, in a decent sized Italian family, you know, one of four children. Family dinners were super important to us. We were always very close. I could have been anything I wanted to, my mother always said growing up and all I wanted to do was be a mom. That was my major focus. Went through, um, high school, basically doing everything I could from, you know, cheerleading, the student council, and, um, all the programs. I was on the, you know, debate team, science club, all of it. And, went to college, was gonna be a chemistry major in college to be a high school chemistry teacher. And cuz I wanted to have the summers off cuz I wanted to be a mom and you know, got outta college and kind of was trying to figure out what to do. Started working and, um, Just always loved helping people. It was really in my kind of DNA, um, that, you know, “Mama Bear” they call me and, and I like to just always be around helping people get whatever they need and, and do whatever they need and just better themselves. I took that through college into afterwards. I started working. I got married. I’ve been married, it’ll be 23 years this year. I have two beautiful children, um, who are both in college now and are amazing, amazing young women. And you know, all through that. Every time, you know, serial volunteer, every time somebody needs something done, they call me or I’m in a room. My mother used to say, used to get that, you really need to get that spring broken. And I’m like, what’s spring? She’s like the one in your arm that just keeps going up, like, yeah, I’ll do it, I’ll do it, I’ll do it, but I figure if I can help, I want to. And that’s really what’s always driven me and it’s just that service mentality that I have. And, and it’s really, it’s been great, but it also takes a toll when it’s, um, when you’re doing way too much. And I kind of lost myself over the years of trying to be a mom, trying to work full-time, trying to do all of the things, volunteering everywhere. And the only thing that suffered through all of that was me. And, um, I met Jesse five years ago, and once I met him, I realized that I could do all of those things. I just needed to do them differently to make it work, and I needed to make myself the most important person to help in all of it. And once I shifted and did that, everything changed and I’ve just really become a better Laurie. I don’t, I hate when people say they reinvent themselves cuz you don’t reinvent yourself. You, you’re always the same person at your core. But I’ve upgraded myself and I’ve become this better version, an older, wiser, more learned version of Laurie from, you know, my early teens and twenties.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what did you learn when you say you, you, you met Jesse five years ago and it changed your perspective. I mean, for those of us that know Jesse, it is amazing what all he does, but how important his family is. But for you, if we could peel that onion layer back a little bit. What, what changed for you? Like what, what were the, the changes that happened and then how did you implement those changes?  Laurie Wintonick: So as a mom or a parent nowadays, um, we tend to think. You know, there’s this buzz, this buzz going around about self-care and we tend to think that that’s selfish and everything we do needs to be for the kids. I wanted to make sure that my children always had what they needed and we don’t really pay attention to all of the things that matter in our life. We’re so uber focused on, you know, for me it was work kids, work kids, work kids, and all the volunteer work I did was around my kids. And the reality of that was I had no fulfillment for myself personally, I had no hobbies. I had friends, but like I wasn’t intentional about seeing them. I wasn’t healthy, I wasn’t exercising. I wasn’t eating right. All of the things. And when I met Jesse and he talked about his principles and how basically he ran his life, it was like, wait a minute. , there’s four main buckets of your life. There’s your professional, there’s your personal, your health and wellness and your relationships. And to really have an optimized life, you have to find balance in all of those areas. And it’s not gonna happen just organically. You really have to be intentional, intentional about what you do in those areas. You have to have goals. You have to have, you know, habits that you create to make sure you’re touching on those four buckets, all the time. And learning that from Jesse, I started to do that. I started to make sure that yes, my job was my job, and yes, my, you know, my, my relationship with my family was, was important, but my relationship with myself was more important, my health and wellness from a mind, body and soul perspective. I needed to really focus on that. And then I needed to have some personal goals outside of being, you know, the, the boss at a company or Angelina and Sophia’s mom or Chris’s wife or whatever. Like I needed to be Laurie again. And without personal goals and, and areas that I would learn from myself, I was really feeling empty and hollow. So I shifted and started to put some real focus on that intentionally, and that’s when I started to notice everything really started to change and I became a much more happy person. Really. That’s as simple, you know, as simple as it gets.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And that’s a big deal, isn’t it? The happiness. But I, I think too is, I would love to learn more about how you implemented it, because it’s easy to learn that and know that, you know, my personal life, my professional life, my health and wellness, and then my relationships, it’s, it’s one thing to hear that, right?  And it’s another thing to then take steps and do something about it. But, but how did you implement it to where I’m, cause I’m, maybe I’m wrong, but I’m assuming that there was, it was easy, then it was hard again, maybe you fell back in your traps and then, oh, I’m gonna do this again and set these goals and fall back and go forward. And it just kind of teeters, toters for a while. And, and I, I think there’s something about just showing up every day. Like for me it’s this journal and it’s, it’s showing up every day and, and being boring and, and making it happen. And so when you hear that, like, what, what, what comes to mind with all that? Laurie Wintonick: So you just said a word that is basically my motto. You said, you know, it’s kind of boring. I, on Instagram will always post it. Um, hashtag boringly consistent. I had to build that muscle where I got boringly consistent in the things that I knew I wanted to do. So for my health and wellness, you know, years ago I was extremely overweight for my size. I never realized it. I was always healthy and, and active and, and small. I’m, I’m, you know, very short and I, you know, never was a big girl. And I had kids and I just stopped paying attention and I had put on a lot of weight and the first thing I did was realize that, I was getting really unhealthy and longevity is something that’s important to me. I wanna be around for my kids and their kids, and I wanna be healthy with that. So the first thing I did was I sought out somebody who could help me do it, right? And I went and saw a weight and wellness counselor and she put me on the right path. But with that, there was an accountability where, you know, I would go see her every two weeks. And we would meet and we would go through what I was eating, what I was doing, where my weight was going up and down. And she really helped me overcome my relationship with food. And I think it’s a really important, um, point to make is that yes, we can do a lot of things on our own, but sometimes you need a coach, you need a mentor, you need a accountability partner, you need somebody. And, that was the first thing I had done that made a huge difference in my life.  There were areas where, you know, I, I started to make changes. Where is the community around the Build Your Life Resume program that Jesse had launched? We all were holding each other accountable. We were all cheering each other on supporting each other, but also pushing like, why aren’t you doing what you said you were gonna do? Like, come on, Laurie. Sometimes you need somebody really to like, when you start to fall, to kind of push you back up and remind you of why you started in the first place. It’s hard to do these things alone. It really is. And we lose that when we’re growing up and we join a sports team. We’re not just a bunch of kids running around the field. There’s coaches, there’s trainers, there’s people involved to help us learn and do it the right way. And then to stand on the sidelines and coach us through the actual act of, you know, of competing. It’s the same thing as we get older, but we forget that. And I think inviting Jesse into my life really opened that up again to me that there are people out there that you can lean on that know more than you know. And I started to learn and I started to think about, okay, what else can I do? So putting somebody in your corner that will help you stay on track until you make those new habits actually become just things that you do instinctively and you get boringly consistent with it. You know, a, a few months ago I knew I wanted to work out differently. I knew I wanted to change my exercise habits. I hired a trainer. And it was financially hard to do that. It wasn’t like I had all this extra money laying around. I’m like, oh, lemme do, no. Like, I have two kids in college. I have a mortgage. I, you know. Yeah. Um, but it was important, so I made myself a priority, worked it out where I could put some money aside and I hired a trainer so that I could learn the right way to lift the weights that I wanted to lift, to work with someone who could show me. And now, yeah, I’m in the gym doing it myself, but that’s after eight months of working with somebody. And learning the right way to do things.  Brett Gilliland: It’s huge. I mean, I think about, you know, Michael Phelps or Tiger Woods or Tom Brady, I mean, whoever I pick your favorite, the the goat, whatever. They all have coaches. You know, I’m a big golf guy and I, I watch these guys, they have their, their kind of their entourage with ’em every week on tour. It’s their mental person, it’s their strength person, it’s their nutritionist. Right. Sometimes their chef, uh, their swing coach. I mean, it’s all these people. And I, I wrote down earlier here when you said you hired a counselor and I put, you know, believe in yourself enough to hire a coach. And, and yes, you own a coaching or, or CEO of a coaching business, but I mean, how important is that to invest in ourselves? Even though you said it may be tough financially, for those listeners right now that aren’t investing in themselves by hiring a coach, what, what, what advice would you give them?  Laurie Wintonick: Find, you know, you don’t always have to, hi, have the most expensive what there. There are things available if you join a gym and they have personal training and they give you those sessions, take advantage of them. If there’s a community that you can be a part of. So, yes, I, I am the CEO and I run Jesse’s coaching program, but we also have an online coaching program, which is a very different price point, and it’s amazing material and there’s a great community of people who will help you. So make that investment, find something, you know, there’s, there’s something for everyone out there, and some people may, may get it from communities at church, some people may get it from a running community, if that’s something they wanna do. Um, you know, are you gonna hire, you know, like the top of the line running coach if you’re just getting into it? Maybe not. Maybe you can’t afford that, but like, find the running club in, in town. And start there. Um, you know, if, if you are interested in something, Research, the people who are good at what you do, listen to as many podcasts, read the books. There’s so much free information out there to start and, and just get started. The hardest part, I think, for anything is getting started, but once you start to read up and get educated on it, then you can make the decisions of what fits best for you and then decide and maybe save up to eventually hire that coach if, if it’s something that’s important to you… Brett Gilliland: Yeah… Laurie Wintonick: …there’s a lot of free resources. Resources. Mm-hmm. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And sometimes you just gotta take steps to do it. Right. I’m, I’m working with a guy right now that I coach and, you know, he’s doing well in all his areas of his life. And for me, it’s f to the six power. It’s your faith, your family, your fitness, your fun, you know, your, your firm, what I call firm for workout, and then your finances. And so his fitness isn’t going as well. And I said, do me a favor today. So literally, this is, this morning, I said, I want you to do 10 pushups and 25 jumping jacks, right? Because I know well enough about people that if you just did the easy thing, that 10 and that 25, that’s not difficult at all right to do, right? But guess what? My guess is he’s probably gonna do another 10 pushups and maybe do something else over here and do something else. And next thing you know, he is gonna work out for, even if it’s 10, 15, 20 minutes, it’s something is better than nothing. And I think that accountability is a huge piece of that, don’t you think? Laurie Wintonick: Absolutely. And having to tell somebody you did it, um, you know, a lot of people do Andy Frisella’s 75 Hard, right?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah yep. Laurie Wintonick: And why, why that is so effective. And it’s more than just the workouts and everything. It’s the accountability of having to show up at the end of the day and click that button that you finished it. and, and knowing that you have to, you know, you actually have to report in that you did it. And I think people miss the point of 75 hard. It’s not about getting the two workouts in. It’s not, it’s about building that muscle where the consistency happens day in and day out. And it’s proving to yourself that you can, there’s no reason that you can’t, you just have to want to bad enough. And to your point, you wanna work out, you wanna do something new. Jumping jacks, pushups, sit-ups, go for a walk. All of this is free. And, and you know, luckily for you, he has, you know, he has you and you’re gonna push him and, but set the goals, but make sure having that accountability piece is huge because having to let somebody know, yeah, I did it. Or, or realize not just yourself, like, I didn’t do it. We can talk ourselves out of anything.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Easy to do that isn’t it? Laurie Wintonick: Yeah. Yeah. But it’s a lot harder to hold yourself accountable and that’s also something that you have to learn. Like to me it’s more important to get it done than to make excuses. Brett Gilliland: Yep. I would agree. So what, um, can you share, not to ask you to get into details, but any difficult parts of your life, but the, the difficult things you’ve had in your life? Cuz it’s easy to talk about all the success and all the things that go well. Right. Well, we all have things that don’t go as planned and so, Share as much as you want, but any, any learning that has come from that and how did you get out of that tough point. Uh, if there is any in your life and get out of it. Pull yourself up, put your work boots back on and get back after it.  Laurie Wintonick: So there’s um, two or three things that jump out, you know, pretty quickly. Um, when I, you know, everybody laughs when you turn 30. It’s supposed to be like this big milestone. I’m like, oh my God, I’m 30. But I turned 30 and was like, life is amazing. I was married, uh, you know, growing up again, wanted to be a mom, always wanted to have my kids. By the time I was 30, I had it all planned out. I’m a planner, as if, you know, you couldn’t tell, and I was like, Okay, so here I am now. I’m married. I have a house. I have two beautiful children. I mean, my, my youngest daughter was four months old. When I turned 30. I was like, yes, I had a good job. I had everything that I ever thought I wanted because, you know, you’re growing up, you’re in your twenties, you have all these dreams. Now I’m 30, I have it all. And then 35 hit. And I was like, oh, same house, same husband, same two kids, same job. What changed? And it felt like I had wasted five years of my life. Like there was no movement, there was no growth, there was no anything. And it was a really bad, um, really bad time of almost like, you know, I would hate to say depression, but sort of that like this, just this feeling of like, sure, how did I get here? And that was really, really hard. And, um, I was overweight. All of those things were in play and I was just not a happy person. And I found myself, um, you know, coming home from work. opening that bottle of wine and just drinking away, like all every day, you know, a bottle of wine, a bottle of wine, a bottle. And I was like, how did I get here? You know? So I decided that I was gonna try to figure out some ways to change things so that by the time I was 40, I made myself a promise by the time I was 40, that I wouldn’t be the same person, that I wasn’t 35. So again, what people are like, oh my God, you’re turning 40. Like, I was like, Nope, this is great. Make these changes. So I literally had decided, you know, I was in a, I was in a toxic relationship with my boss at my old job. She was, she was a wonderful person. She was a horrible boss. Like, hmm. And I always said, I felt like, you know, I would be told daily how stupid I was. And then the next day I’d get like a $50,000 bonus to make it better. Like it was just bad. And I knew I had to get out of there, but I was close enough to being, you know, I was eight minutes from home so I could get home anytime I needed to. I could be at all the stuff for the girls, I could volunteer for everything. So it served the purpose and you, you know, basically, Excuse it away, right?  Brett Gilliland: Sure.  Laurie Wintonick: So, um, I kind of had to find a way to get out of that relationship, take my life back and find this new job, which I did at the financial planning firm. And, um, once I started there, things definitely started to change. I remember I came home, it was, I was at about a week into working at the financial planning firm, which was scary. I took a pay cut, like I didn’t, you know, it was not, it was not a great move on paper at all. But I came home and I was sitting at the dinner table. We always do family dinners, and, uh, my husband Chris looked at me and he was just like, um, you look 10 years younger. Brett Gilliland: Hmm. Wow.  Laurie Wintonick: I was like, what do you mean? He’s like, he’s like your face, like all those stress li like all of its gone . And I was like, okay, well this was the best decision that I, that I made. And um, and then I turned 40 at that job and was like, all right, this is great. New job, new exciting things. And, and then, you know, a few years later I meet Jesse and I’m like, oh my God, this is not good. You know? Um, so I think it’s, you know, it’s been a struggle for me. So that was like one big thing to overcome. The second area that was really hard for me was at my old job in the finance, you know, in the financial world. Women just are, you know, the old traditional world of banking, finance, insurance. All of that. Women are the admins, we’re the clerical, we’re the, you know, we should go get you coffee. Um, we’re not executives. And while my boss, who was a wonderful man and you know, told me constantly you’re, you know, you’re an executive in this firm and you’re on the executive team and there’s seven of us, and you know, you’re the same as us. I wasn’t treated the same. I mean, I, I didn’t get a raise for four years. The guys around me, people who were underneath me actually in the hierarchy on the, on the org chart were making more money than me, um, because they were considered a profit center where I was a cost center. And I understood that. I oversaw the admin and all the operations of the firm, but I always felt like, and I say it a lot, I’m, I was the skirt in a room full of suits and, um, I’m not, The type of person to yell, like, you know, glass ceilings, feminism, like, I don’t do all of that. I believe that you, you know, we’re all equal. We’re all people no matter what. And we need to, we need to fight for ourselves and we need to assert ourselves. And I didn’t, and I, I really shrank into this like, Thought process of, well, I can’t change it, but it’s good for my family, so I’m gonna, I’m gonna accept it and I’m gonna, I’m gonna stay here. And, um, it did a lot of damage to me, like it really did. And I didn’t realize how much until I got out of it, but it was really hard day in and day out to sit there and be like, no matter what I did, no matter what amazing things I would do for the company, it just didn’t change anything. And, you know, um, I think it hit me really hard.  The, um, the gentleman that was the owner of the company retired, and when I was hired, I was hired as, as his assistant cuz I was gonna, like I said, I took a huge pay cut, I needed to get out of the other job, got hired as his executive assistant, which lasted about a month. And then I was the office manager within a few weeks. I was, um, director of op administration and then executive VP of operations shortly after that. But I always did, even as being, as being the vp, I still did his personal assistant stuff. I took care of everything for him. His wife passed while, while I was working there. I mean, I helped with her funeral arrangements, like I did all was at his house, like food shopping for him, all of these things. And after 10 years when he decided he was gonna retire and, and sold off, um, the firm to a gentleman that I had worked with, great guy. He walked in my office for Christmas and, and was like, you know, I can’t believe this is our last Christmas together and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I know. And he handed me this basket of lotion and it was a very nice gift. But I’m, I was like, this was a 10 year relationship where I went so far above and beyond what anybody was expected, what I was paid for, all of, because of who I am at my core. And you’re handing me. $50 bottle of like basket of lotion. And I was like, okay. And in that moment I was like, I can’t do this anymore. I can’t work in an environment like this anymore. I can’t devalue myself anymore. And I decided for in, for the next year that like my goal for 2021 was to get out of corporate America to figure something out that I had to find something else to do. I couldn’t sit at a desk and run somebody else’s business and make them millions of dollars and be miserable. I just couldn’t do it anymore. And especially when you’re not, you know, you’re not really valued at that level. They just, you know, there’s an expectation and, and unfortunately some of these companies, they just don’t care. And I wasn’t, I wasn’t about to do it anymore. So that was really hard. And then this past year, um, was probably the hardest year of my life. So I lost my, I I, my, my daughters were away college. There were some stuff that went on with my younger daughter at school, which was really hard in navigating teenage daughters. Um, you know, 20, my one daughter’s, 21, my other daughter’s 19 and a half. And you know, sitting back as a parent and not jumping in and fixing things for them is really hard because a lot of stuff they now, they have to figure out on their own. And yeah, and letting her try to do that was really, really tough. In the midst of all of this, my father who had been battling and sick for the last four years after a major stroke finally passed away. Um, I got the call on my birthday. That he had had a massive heart attack that afternoon. They had revived him after 15 minutes and put him on life support. So I had to go to the hospital on my birthday that evening to remove him from life support. Um, while that was super hard, it was also a blessing because I was able to, he gave me the gift of finally letting go. Um, but, You know, the next three weeks I had stuff for work and I, I know my dad, my dad always called me Larry, and he would, you know, he would’ve said to me like, there’s a time to cry Larry, and this ain’t it, chill up and do it. Go do what you have to do and we’ll figure it out. Um, so I honored him by showing up and, and doing all of those things. Um, that was the end of October into the beginning of November. After this three weeks of craziness, I came back home. Um, we’re all home for Thanksgiving. My dog had gotten sick earlier in the year. We had found out she had a brain tumor. She went blind. She was the sweetest little thing in the world, and, um, noticed the week of Thanksgiving. She wasn’t eating. She was declining the whole thing. And, um, two days after Thanksgiving, we had to put her down. And I have never, I, I lost my grandmother when I was 20 and that was super hard for me cuz her and I were as close as you could possibly be with another individual. She was my everything but these two losses back to back just destroyed me. And I had a choice. I could power through like I always do, or I could sink into the grief and let it just, you know, just sit in it and let it happen and, and allow the waves. I have to say, there was probably a good couple weeks where I think my family was really nervous about me, couldn’t get outta bed, couldn’t eat, couldn’t function. I literally would get up to do the work that I needed to do for the program that I run. Because when I make a commitment, I follow through. And that was all I did. Um, my husband used to be like, okay, you know, um, did you eat today? I’m like, no. He’d be like, all right, let’s go upstairs. You have to eat something. It got to that point, and this is somebody. Is super conscious of her health, does all of these things. But it just, the grief just hit me super hard and it was a really interesting time there. And then my girls came home before Christmas. Having them in the house helped. Um, and it, it took me a while to crawl out of it, but I was in a hole. I was in a definite hole for, for a good, a good three weeks of just nothing. I couldn’t, you know, I just didn’t want to. I just didn’t want to. And, now I look back on it and I’m, you know, there’s, there’s moments where I feel like it, I feel like I can feel the grief and I let it come. I don’t fight it, and then I allow it to, you know, I, it, it’s part of life. So I allow it in, I feel it, and then I release it and I do what needs to be done. And I don’t, I don’t, um, what’s the word I’m looking for? Um, I, I don’t feel bad that I went through that. I’m not upset with myself that I allowed myself that time to just grieve. I think we forget that we’re human and even though we can do all these things and we can power through and show up, like in that moment, for the first time in a very long time, I needed to show up for myself. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Laurie Wintonick: And sometimes that meant just sitting on the edge of the bed and not doing anything. That was, you know, that was enough. Like, I got outta bed today. You know, I would, my girlfriend would be like, are you, where are you today? I’m like, I showered. Like, okay. Small wins. You know, um, I changed, I got out of my pajamas into a different pair of pajamas, but I got out of my pajamas. Like, you know, like that was where I was. And, and it’s funny because people who know me, like they’d never believe it, but it, it, and it was okay. It was, you know, it was fine. And I’m, I’m good and I am grateful that I had the time with my wonderful puppy, Cammy. She was amazing. 12 years of our lives, but it’s like losing a child. Um, and then, you know, my dad, like I said, it was a gift that, to be able to let him go. But, you know, grief is, somebody said this to me and it really stuck, is that grief is a result of how much you loved that person and how much they loved you and the stronger the grief, the more love there was in that relationship. And it really hit me cuz it was like she, she was so right in telling me that, like, that it’s a direct correlation. The amount of grief that you’re gonna feel in that loss is a direct correlation, the amount of the love that was in the relationship. So it’s a, it’s a blessing to have to feel that way. That’s right. Because at least I know how much love there was. Brett Gilliland: I appreciate you sharing all that. I mean, that, that’s a lot there, right? And I’m, I’m sure we could have a whole nother podcast just on, on some of those things. And, um, but I think again, at the end of the day, you, you, there’s this light that you can see right at the end of the tunnel. It may be super, super tiny right? Like a, like the needle, uh, point. But what, what, what was the catalyst for you? Was it getting this new job with the JI uh, Elite Coaching was, you know, what was it that said, okay, not, am I gonna get outta bed and shower and change my clothes, but I’m gonna take it to the next step and now I’m gonna start thriving. Because there’s somebody listening to this that may not be in that point. Right. They’re in the point where they don’t want to get outta bed. Yeah. And they need to hear that. Like, what was that catalyst for you?  Laurie Wintonick: I think, um, you know, I got out of the bad job. I took a new job, then I was in this other job and I’m like, I can’t be there, and Jesse came along and offered me this amazing responsibility in 2021, and I started this company and we do just such great things with people and seeing them get through has been incredible. So this year, having my own set of real challenges and, and being in bed and not wanting to get changed, you know, I gave myself the grace of some time and then I got up and said, okay, remind yourself of this like, you’ve survived all of the bad stuff that’s happened to you this far, like all the worst days that you thought you couldn’t get through, you got through. So this is just another bad day that eventually you’re gonna get through. And I tried to, you know, Jesse has this saying no zero days. And it’s basically like, you know, even in the days where you just don’t have it, you just don’t just do one thing. So, like I said, I, I would, I would shower, I would get up and come down and do some work. and, you know, I would eat and I would, little by little, I would try to just get through doing something every single day. And eventually that one thing became two things. And then the two things became three things. And I just started to build on it and realize I would get myself back. It was just gonna take some time and it was okay. But, um, I didn’t, I didn’t feel sorry for myself, if that made sense. Like I, I was feeling grief and I was feeling, but I, like, I wasn’t like, oh, woah it was me. Everybody should feel, feel bad for me. I was like, no, I just, I just feel bad right now and it’s okay. And I had people around me and you know, I do say if you, if you find yourself in a situation like that and you can’t pull yourself out, you can’t physically get out of the bed to get in the shower, then you need to talk to somebody. You need to, you know, I fortunately had people in my life that I could talk to that were checking in on me, um, and that were making sure I was okay. You know, like I said, my husband making sure I was eating. If he wasn’t here, I probably wouldn’t eaten for three weeks, you know? Um, just making sure people around you, and if you don’t have that immediate like, go speak to somebody because they will help you. And you know, don’t try to do it all at once. Just little, little wins every day. Get up, make the bed, get up, take a shower, get up. You know, leave the house. Go for a 10 minute walk. Just get outside. Do something every day that you can think. All right, I’m proud of the fact that I did that. And you, nobody else has to know what it is and nobody else has to give you approval. It’s just that you know that you did it for you. Honor yourself enough to do that. And I knew my dad would be super, super mad at me if I didn’t get, if I didn’t eventually get up. But I also know that it’s what I needed. That’s why I allowed it.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, trust your body, right? Just trust your body. So what. Go ahead.  Laurie Wintonick: No. So, and, and just by building on it every day you get back into the routines that made you feel good, and then you start to thrive again.  Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Um, what would you say, I mean, you learn most from Jesse Itzler, who’s married to Sarah Blakely, who, you know, invented Spanx. I mean, they’re, you know, kind of this powerful duo, uh, of people as Jesse started, you know, the Jet Company, uh, coconut Water Company. Now his all day running company is coaching is, I mean, all the stuff right, that they’ve both done. What, from the outsider looking in at them along with having four children, w what, what have you, what are your takeaways from that family and from Jesse or Sarah that you could share with us? Laurie Wintonick: You can absolutely do what you wanna do, and do it well, but not, and not have to do it at the expense of everybody in your life. And you know, Jesse says this all the time, like, you should really spend your, your time doing the things you love to do with the people you love to do them with. Period done on the story. And that’s how they live. Um, what you see on Instagram and social media, that’s really how they live. If you’re at that house, like exactly what’s happening is what’s happening in person. It’s not for show. It’s not. They’re so authentic. They really are so authentic and that’s one of the things that I really respect most about them is, you know, Sarah is a brilliant businesswoman. She really is, and she did something because she believed in it and she worked really, really hard and she refused to, to allow any critics in. She just knew that she could, and she, you know, made sure every day she worked towards it. And Jesse, you know, he’s, he’s amaz like, he’s crazy. He’s amazing. He has these great ideas and you know, they both find people to help them with the areas of that they’re not good at. You know, Sarah doesn’t wanna be involved in the operations of things like, so she makes sure she has somebody doing that for her. Jesse has great ideas. He needs, you know, he needs implementers. He needs somebody to be able to come in and implement what his ideas are and also be able to work through the fact that he’s gonna change his mind and he’s wants something different. And you know, how do we pivot? How do we make it work? And they don’t try to do it all themselves. They get the right people. They hire coaches, they have mentors, they still look for help and., You know, for me, like I said, being a mom was super important. They didn’t have a family for the sake of having a family. They had a family because they want to be parents and they love their children. And it’s important that they’re present and their children’s lives all the time, and they make it work. They’re very intentional with their time.  Brett Gilliland: Well, hats off to them. They’re doing ’em. It’s, they’re truly amazing people. And, uh, it’s been awesome, uh, getting to learn from you all the stuff that you have done in your life too. So where would our listeners find more of you? Where, where, uh, where’s the biggest hangout for you?  Laurie Wintonick: So, I, I’m mostly on Instagram these days. Um, So my Instagram handle is l i l l g two three. That’s a little with two Ls, G 23. Um, I do a lot of posts there. There’s a lot of fitness stuff there because that’s part of my journey now as I’m approaching 50 is to get in the best physical shape of my life. For longevity. Wanna be stronger, I wanna be healthier. You’ll see a lot of my, my daughter’s on there. I like to brag about them and a lot of fitness and a lot of coaching stuff. So I’m there a lot. I’m on Twitter, but not too much LinkedIn as well. Um, and then we have the coaching program, which is on Jesse’s website.  Brett Gilliland: Okay. So just jesse itzler.com on there. And then you can Jesse j Jesse,  Laurie Wintonick: Yep. Jesse itzler.com. You’ll see there’s a coaching tab and we are the, um, coaching mastermind, mastermind coaching retreat program, I believe is the, the click there. Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me on the Circuit of Success. It’s been awesome having you and great learning, uh, all the nuggets of wisdom you share with us today.  Laurie Wintonick: Thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure, Brett. [/fusion_text][/fusion_builder_column][/fusion_builder_row][/fusion_builder_container]

Britton Barbee, former D-1 athlete for Texas Tech, touches on his experiences as an athlete and father. He talks about the importance of being authentic, understanding, and being willing to put your ego aside to connect with people. Britton discusses his experience with 29029 Everesting on a hike equivalent to climbing Mount Everest and the endurance and mindset it takes. Following his experience, he has applied his insight to his life to be his most authentic self. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH6OutNDJdc&list=PLbvB0kVmlTP7mo99UtYan6rAaz5uNOzyN&index=1 Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’ve got Britton Barbee with me. Britton, what’s up man? How you doing? Britton Barbee: Man, I’m doing outstanding. I’m just happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, it’s good to have you and, uh, you’re coming to us, uh, from Dallas, Texas. Right?  That was all Dallas, Texas treating you today.  Britton Barbee: It’s good. The weather’s been cold enough to, uh, cold plunge in the pool without having to worry about too much. And, um… Brett Gilliland: There you go.  Britton Barbee: Yeah. So, so no complaints, uh, you know, hot enough during the day. Cold enough in the morning.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, that’s perfect. That’s perfect. We got, we’re lucky here, man. It was, uh, let’s see, A week ago it was five degrees here, and today it’s gonna be 60. So this only in St. Louis can we go from five degrees to 60 degrees, all in about seven days. Pretty… Britton Barbee: That’s a pretty strong swing. Pretty strong. Brett Gilliland: It’s a strong swing. It’s a strong swing. It literally, we will have, well we had snow on the ground yesterday and now today I look out and there’s not any snow on the ground anywhere, so pretty crazy stuff here, so. Well, hey man, uh, you are a former Texas Tech football player. You are an endurance athlete and a performance coach with Jesse Itzler and his programs and, uh, so doing some awesome stuff today. Before we get dive into all that, man, I’d love to just dive in and talk about what’s made you the man you are today.. Britton Barbee: Yeah, no, I mean it’s, um, it, it, it’s a lot really. I just, I went to my parents. Um, I grew up, I’m the youngest of three. Um, so being the biggest, but being the baby, it was always kind of fun. Um, but, you know, my, my parents were division one athletes. Both my brother and sister played college, uh, sports as well. And, um, you know, I’ve said up before, man, my, my parents gave this idea to us of just growing up to be excellent and everything that we did. And uh, that was instilled to us from an early age and it’s something that I’ve tried to carry over, uh, into being a father now a three myself, and just applying, um, everything that we can with all that we can into everything that we do. And so that’s, uh, my parents laid the foundation for us and we kind of took it from there. And that’s kind of what’s led us to some of these crazy adventures that we go on, that we seek out now.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So I think, uh, if I remember correctly in my research, you uh, and your two siblings and your mom and your dad all played division one sports, is that correct? Britton Barbee: Yeah, so both my mom and uh, sister played basketball, college basketball. My brother and father played football. Um, and then I was the, um, you know, the, the last one. And it was, um, it was a good time. I like to say I went to the best school I went to, you know, Texas Tech played for, uh, the late Mike Leach. I was fortunate for that man to trust in me, uh, when I was 17, 18 years old to pay for my school. And, um, I owe him a lot to, to the man that I am too. You think about how, uh, just in the, you know, all the things that you’ve seen about him since his passing, it’s how unconventional he was. And I probably could say the same thing. I don’t know that I have a normal path just describing what I do day to day, uh, for working for a guy like Jesse is, uh, not necessarily a, um, a normal path. You know, when somebody wakes up for work, it doesn’t typically include going to bed at two or 3:00 AM from the cold plunge and the sauna the night before to hiking or, you know, waking up and going on a hike. And that’s, that’s work, you know. So, um, just that unconventional approach, um, through athletics and just through the lessons that I’ve been taught by my parents and my coaches, has really, you know, shaped who I am and, and, and what I see and, and what I feel is possible. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what do you, what do you think your parents did right? You know, there’s a lot of wrong that parents do with kids sports these days, right? So what do you think those advice for us, I have four kids and most people listen to this, have multiple kids, and, but, but what, what advice would you have for them as parents of what your parents did, right, to make sure, one, you loved the sport you were playing, that you chose to play, you were passionate about it, you put in the work, but yet you also wanted to do it versus them making you do it. What advice would you have there?  Britton Barbee: I think that that’s key right there is that you, you know, they have to want to do it. You know, I feel like I now, my daughter plays travel volleyball. She’s 10 years old and I know so much about the human body and performance and recovery and I wanna like give her all that, but I have to let her want to do it. When given the opportunity, um, cuz you know, I mean, ha having kids, I mean, the window for when you can mesh is really, really small. And, uh, for my parents, you know, my dad parents never forced me to play football. I grew up, I played soccer, I played hockey, I played, you know, I did track, I wanna say I ran track, but I, I, I did the field part of track. Um, and so we, we, we tried everything and whatever that we were gonna do. Brett Gilliland: alright. We got cut off there for a second, so you can continue on that.  Britton Barbee: Yeah, no, so, so really it it’s the fact that my parents never, you know, forced us to do anything. It was always a choice. And, um, my dad being, you know, my dad’s bigger than me, it was far more athletically gifted than me. Um, but he let me come to my own when, you know, seeking out, you know, sports, seeking out football, it was never, this is how you need to be. If you want to be great, this is what you gotta do. It was me asking those questions and them being, you know, ready to answer because they both knew what it took. They knew what, you know, they knew what it took to be successful. Once I decided what success was to me. Meaning I wanted to go to college, um, you know, to graduate, but also I’d like to go there for free, for athletic ability, and they just told me what the path was and if that’s where I wanted to be, they didn’t let me deviate from that path. They would just simply, you know, kind of a small hand in the back nudge of if this is what you truly want, this is where you need to go. And I think that oftentimes you see too many parents, especially, uh, so I live in South Lake, Texas, and, um, it’s pretty, uh, pretty, uh, strong on the youth sports front. Um, you know, if you’re 5, 6, 7 years old and you’re not in private lessons for baseball, football, or lacrosse, you’re behind. Um, but I don’t really subscribe to that. I want my seven year old son to be my seven year old son, you know? He wants to play video games and then in the snapshot when he wants to play sports, I’m ready. And, and that’s what it has to be. They have to learn to want to do it, otherwise they won’t ever wanna do it.  Brett Gilliland: That’s right. I couldn’t agree more man playing sports my whole life is, my parents never forced me to play, right. It was always me wanting to go out there and even if I wanted to impersonate somebody on the basketball court or a golf course or whatever it may be, it’s, it’s, uh, you gotta want it, man. So, back to, uh, Mike Leach, the late Mike Leach great football college, football coach. Lots of stories that come out about him, uh, since his passing here the last month or so. Um, tell us maybe if you could, one, one thing you learned from him that sticks with you when you heard the, when you heard of his passing. You know, I’m sure you put a lot of thought into it, but what’s some of the things you learned from him?  Britton Barbee: Just, um, I mean, just a, a, a tremendous amount of gratitude, um, for a guy like that. I was fortunate to hold a relationship with him long past, uh, my playing days. I finished in 2010, you know, he was, he was outta tech in 2009 my junior year. And, um, always kept a relationship with him. And all the stories that you hear about Mike calling you on the phone and just talking about anything and everything is, is, is true. I remember he called me one time to ask, you know, what really happened to our 2010 team? He said, y’all should have been a 12 and 0 team. You know, what happened? You know, all the tools were there and the entire time I’m talking to him, it, it sounds like he’s in a wind tunnel and, and it’s really hard to kind of understand what he’s saying. And, and then finally, um, he says, well, hold on. Um, you know, I have a flat tire. I said, oh, okay. Like, in, in your car? He said, no, I’m riding my bike. I’m in Florida. I said, okay. So we had been talking for about 45 minutes and he was just on his bike outside. It was just something that he loved to do, and that’s just kind of the, the man that he was. And for, for Mike, um, I think really what he taught us was que question everything. You know, when someone says, well, you can’t do it this way. He’ll basically say, well, why not? Can we not or do we not? And um, that’s where his offense came from. He said, why would I go 50 50 run pass if more of my players aren’t running backs that can, that can successfully, you know, move the ball down field? And so playing for an offensive guy when you’re a defensive guy was always funny too. Yeah, because, um, as a defensive team, we always felt like, you know, Mike just had us there cuz he ultimately had to have defensive players, but if he could line up two offensives somehow, he would’ve. And, um, he, he, uh, always reminded us that we were, you know, good, not great. And, um, I remember there was a time, my, my sophomore year, he called me into his office and he said, um, you know, I, I’m thinking about switching you from defensive line to offensive line. What are your thoughts? And you know, when you’re 19, 20 years old, you just want to give the most opportunity to play. I said, well, sure, you know, what, what are you thinking about? What’s the reason that’s making you think me go from defense to offense? He said, well, you’re not particularly strong or fast. Um, and, and you’re not really quick. Um, so that’s why I’m thinking about switching you cuz you’re smart. And it was like this truth bomb just, you know, right across the face of, hey, you could be a sinner in my offense. Cuz you have to be able to read defenses. You understand that, but you’re not really fast or strong, so it’s up to you. Um, and that was, that was the way he would compliment you. Not being rude, just being truthful, you know?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, but think about that though, man. That’s, that’s pretty direct.  Britton Barbee: A absolutely direct. So how, guess the way that I give feedback now, there’s, there’s no reason to, there’s no reason to sit back and tell you, Hey, you know, Brett, I was thinking about this and what are your thoughts? He, he’d let you speak. He would always let you speak, but you were gonna hear what he, he thought and there was not, it was gonna be very clear cut. [Yeah.] There was no question around where you stood with, with Coach Leach, ever.  Brett Gilliland: That’s strong, isn’t it? I mean, I think that, you know, as a, as an employee, employer, you know, as an employee, people that are managers, not managers, whatever they’re doing, leading people, I think that’s the biggest thing. I look back at my career, the people that have challenged me the most are the ones that also care for me and love me the most. Right? And I think that’s important, and I think that’s probably what Coach Leach did for you, is he, he loved you, he cared for you, he was all in, but he’s also gonna challenge the daylights out of you. Britton Barbee: Every day. It was, it was a constant, it was a constant push every single day. And, um, I, I, I, uh, always carry, carry him and his lessons with me and try to impact as many people, um, that I can with the lessons he taught me.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Love it. So let’s talk about that hat you’re wearing, man. I wrote it down on my notes here to talk about the 29029. Uh, that’s a, that’s a crazy race man. But tell me about that. Britton Barbee: Yeah. So, um, a couple years ago, a couple of guys decided that racing flat was one thing, but racing up with vertical gain would be a different challenge. So Jesse and a couple guys, Marco Hoick, Collin, Collin O’Brady, um, decided they would rent a mountain and invite people out to climb it. And so the idea behind it is it’s a 36 hour, uh, time limit. And depending on which mountain that you’re at, so they have Stratton, Vermont, they have Sun Valley, Idaho, Jackson, Wyoming, um, a couple others. The idea is that you climb the vertical equivalent Mount Everest in that 36 hours. So you hike up and then you take a gondola down, and you do that as many times as it takes. So in Stratton, Vermont, it took 17 climbs up Mount Straton to reach 29,000 feet. Um, and it’s really, you know, I’ll tell you, you know, vertical gain is a great equalizer. You really can’t sprint it. Um, I’ve seen people who, you know, never ran a mile, haven’t done a 5K finish. And I’ve seen guys that, guys and girls that are incredibly fit, struggle. Because that mountain, you just don’t know what you’re gonna run into. There’s different elevations. I mean, you know, I’m training for Jackson, Wyoming right now, which sits at, you know, 7,000 feet above, you know, sea level. And here I am at six. So it’s like, how do you train and prepare for that? Um, so it’s a real test of, to me it’s a mental test bar more than physical. But the physical is there as well.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So have you done one before?  Britton Barbee: I have. So, um, I, I did, uh, in 21, I did, uh, Utah Snow Basin, Utah. Um, and I got pulled by the medical team after hiking for about 24 hours. Um, they thought I was getting into some type of high altitude, um, you know, having high altitude issues, which I, at the time, really disagreed with, because I really wanted this hat, it sounds silly, right? That you can’t buy this hat, you have to earn the hat. And that’s kind of what we talk about. Brett Gilliland: I love it.  Britton Barbee: Um, and so honestly, I owe a lot to my wife because I was, I was down, I was really, I, there hadn’t been many things I had sought out physically that I hadn’t at least achieved. And the goal was to finish. So leading up to it. And these events are sold out a year prior and um, so I really thought I was gonna have to wait another year and one day. My wife just kind of asked, are you gonna mope around like this for the next year or are you going to do something about it? And sure enough, I ended up calling the guys and was able to get into Vermont about six weeks later and was towing the line and Stratton, Vermont and ultimately finished there, uh, at about 26 hours. Brett Gilliland: Unbelievable. So, so walk me through that, man. Are you sleeping at all or are you just literally staying up for 26 hours? I mean, what’s that process look like?  Britton Barbee: Yeah. So it’s, it’s really your journey, you know, um, for me, I, I want to go through, I kind of break it into to thirds 12 hour segments. So they have food, they have, um, you know, they have recovery stations and, and you can sleep. You have a room or a tent, and, you have the opportunity to do so, but anytime you sleep is time you’re not climbing. Brett Gilliland: Right?  Britton Barbee: So for me, in Vermont, I hiked from six. So it starts at 6:00 AM Friday and ends at 6:00 PM Saturday. I hiked from 6:00 AM until about 4:00 AM the next morning, um, my wife was there and she said, you, you will sleep. Um, because there was lightning in the area, there was a chance that the gondola would shut down. So we had a good little two hour window where I could have been stuck at the top of the mountain and not sleeping. So we decided to, to, so I took, slept for two hours and then was able to, to finish, uh, throughout. But, um, it, it’s, there’s people who go through all the night. There’s people who go in and get six, seven hours of sleep and, you know, wake up and, and get after it again. It’s really up to you and your journey of what finishing looks like. An idea of pushing your body, doing something that you’ve never done because how many of us are really gonna go take the three months to go to Nepal and climb Everest and, and do those different things. It’s not gonna happen, but you can do it right here in, you know, in many people’s backyards essentially, and, and try to see what, what you’re made of. Because there comes a point and everybody has a different one. Some people it’s lap one, some people it’s LAP 15 where you break down and you have to decide how bad do I want this? How, how bad do I want it because, uh, my wife is signed up for Jackson, Wyoming this year and I don’t wanna say she’s never done anything endurance, cuz she’s had three kids. But, you know, my goal for her is to finish this and, you know, so she’s training now. She’s excited at the opportunity. They do just such a great job and it’s uplifting. There’s no ego on the mountain, right. It’s, it’s, Hey, I see, you know, br I want you to finish just as bad as I wanna finish. And, and that’s unique. That’s what really led me to the endurance world was everyone’s so accepting and they wanna see you help wherein football and basketball, all the sports that we play, and you know, in our youth, it’s, it’s about me. How do I get ahead? And in these races, people are helping you out. Hey, try this, try. And that’s been something that’s extremely rewarding and, uh, and uplifting at the same time.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I mean, I, I, yeah, I think that’s an incredible f feeling, man, when you’re done, right? You got that last one. You’re at the base and you know, you got one more mountain to climb, man. And, and I’m assuming this is like, you’re not like on the ropes climbing a mountain, right? You’re, you’re hiking, but it’s straight uphill.  Britton Barbee: Straight up is, is exactly right. Uh, so you’re using. You’re using hiking poles, things like that. And then if you can imagine, in many cases it’s just like doing step ups. You know, you’re not walking, you’re, you’re, you’re hiking up, um, through, you know, uh, whether it’s, you know, packed rock or grass or different things like that. And it’s, it’s something that, you know, is outside of the norm for so many people. Like I said, I’m, I’m here in, you know, Dallas. We, we don’t have anything close, you know, resembling any kind of mountain or elevation. And so it, it challenges you, the terrain challenges you in a different, um, in a different way than, you know, just going for a long run. So it’s something that you really have to focus on your breathing. You have to focus on your hydration, your nutrition, and it’s really a, you have to have a masterful plan. And, and you know, my, my endurance coach is really big on you have to have a plan going in, but he also wants me to list out everything that could go wrong. And when you do that and you understand how you’re gonna respond to all those things, then it’s just show up and enjoy it.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I’m writing that down. Um, I can’t remember who it was this week that, or last week that talked about that as well on, on the podcast, it talked about listing out everything that could go wrong, uh, because then at the end of the day, man, when it does go wrong, you, you’re prepared, right? It’s like, if we only prepare for success and one bump in the night happens, it’s like, ah, crap. You know, now what? Right. And, and I think that’s a, that’s a big, huge takeaway, right there? Britton Barbee: Absolutely. It’s, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s funny, um, even just setting up, you know, getting together with us. I mean, there’s always the high probability of a low probability event, and it’s something that, you know, was told to me a long time ago, and you sit back and think of it, we always sit back and go, well, why, why’d this happen? Or why’d that happen? Um, the chance of something small happening, you know, uh, a blister on your foot, tripping, falling, uh, you know, scratching your knees, scratching your hand, your poles breaking, twisting your ankle. All those things are, they’re limitless at what can happen. But if you think through them, you build this mental resilience to know, okay, well if this happens, here’s how I’ll respond. And then trust in your ability as a, as a person to respond the, the, in a positive way. Yep. And when you can remove all the negative thoughts, then you just show up and go.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. Love that. Love that. So what, what if, uh, if I followed you around every single day, Britton and I said, okay, here are the things that I’m gonna see every single day. What are those no miss items that I’m seeing?  Britton Barbee: Oh, well, you know, it, it, it’s, it’s gonna start pretty early. We’re gonna be up. Um, I like to, I like to get outside. First thing that I like to do is get outside, uh, throw the Frisbee with my dog. Um, my dog’s a early riser, um, nobody else in my house is, so it’s just me. Um, so we’re gonna take the dog for a walk. Get outside typically before the sun’s up, but we’re also gonna, we’re gonna come back. We’re gonna get in the, get in the cold water. That’s a, that’s a must. Cold water exposure, uh, up to the neck, something that I try to make a daily practice. Um, it allows me to set an intention for the day and, and it provides a tremendous amount of clarity around what I want to accomplish that day. Brett Gilliland: What temperature are you getting in? Do you know what the temperature of the water is? Britton Barbee: So I, if, if it’s in the forties or below, I’m good. Um, I’ll, I’ll sacrifice and be, uh, you know, 50. It can still be cold, you know, no matter how much you do this, you know, 50 and below will still kind of, it’ll wake you up.  Brett Gilliland: It, it’s funny, I did 48, uh, just, I dunno, a few days ago I did 48. You know, I set the camera up for the first time ever just to see what the heck I look like doing it. And man, it is brutal. I mean, I, I don’t even know, I’ve never done it in the thirties, but I mean, the 48 I thought I was gonna die for about, you know, 30 seconds and then you get your breathing right, you get your heart rate going, but man, there is, there are very few things in life where you feel different after doing something three or four minutes later.  Britton Barbee: Uh, it it, you know, it’s funny cuz it doesn’t take a lot of time, like you said. Yeah. It’s, it’s to really, um, I think for me and, and kind of what you’re talking about, I mean, cold water’s, cold water, uh, I think the difference between it being in the thirties and fifties it’s, is minimal. You’re still gonna see the same effect. Um, but I think the big thing is, is we always try to fight the cold and it, and it’s such a, you know, it, it, it’s, it’s really, it represents life in such a way. There’s so many things that we try to fight against, right? Rather than just embrace it. When you embrace the cold, and that’s the thing people tell me all the time, are you not cold? I’m cold, but I just let myself be cold. It, it’s really that simple. It’s really that simple. It’s, it’s, it’s this idea of what is comfortable and so when you choose to put your body through something that’s uncomfortable, every single and you, that’s where you go. When I wake up, I’m choosing to put myself in discomfort, whether it’s the cold or whether it’s some type of workout. If you do that, how? How mentally prepared are you for the things that life throw your way? That that’s really what it’s about for me.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah. That’s awesome. So up, up early, so up by what, 5:30 – 6:00 or before that maybe?  Britton Barbee: Yeah, 5:30 – 6:00 in, in a perfect world, now that I’m, you know, uh, with the kids, it, it, it’s, uh, it, it depends, but that’s, that’s ideal. Up early out outside cold water. Um, in a perfect world, I, I try to, I try to steal time for myself. Meaning if I can work out in that window of five to seven before my kids are up and I take them to school, to me that’s a successful day, because I’ve, I’ve done my duty as, as, as a man, as a father, as a husband, to put myself in the best health possible without sacrificing the time for my kids. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Britton Barbee: And take my kids to school, work, uh, come home and, and those are the things that w while my kids are at school, that that’s when I, that’s when we operate. You know, that’s when we do what we need to do. Uh, but at home, you know, it’s something Jesse taught me that we’re, we’re never too tired for our kids. And with a 10 year old daughter, a three-year-old son, seven-year-old son, that you can get pretty tired. Uh, but if it’s, you know, I wanna play this game, I wanna do this, it’s, it’s so easy in this day and age to talk about how tired we are. Um, but it, it’s, it’s, we have to do these things in order for, you know, our kids to want to be around us when we’re older. It, it starts now.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, it’s key. I’m, I’m looking at my eight year-old who’s about, uh, eight feet over here to my left, and it is, man, it is tough. And I see Jesse talk about that stuff all the time. You know, I got four kids and you, you know, you go to work, you come home, you go to sports and it’s one more game, right? It’s one more thing they want to do, but you gotta be there for ’em. And it’s, uh, but sometimes it’s tough. And so it’s making that a priority. But, uh, so talk about Jesse Itzler. For those that don’t know Jesse Itzler. Amazing dude. I’ve been following this guy for years. Uh, wrote the book, Living With the Seal, Living with the Monks, um, both books. I’m just looking at him right now. Both are phenomenal books. I would highly recommend reading those. He’s a great follow on social media because he’s got, there’s no, there’s no fluff, right? I mean, there is no fluff whatsoever. And you’re gonna see exactly what he does and all the things he’s done and, and, and it’s just incredible. So what are you learning from Jesse and talk about your relationship with him.  Britton Barbee: Oh, I mean, uh, yeah, Jess is an incredible guy and if I could sum him up in, you know, one word, it would just be authentic. What, what people often put online versus who they are in real life are two totally different things. Being in and around Jess now for about five years, he is exactly what you see. Um, genuine guy, um, really has discovered later in life. And he talks about it. He really pivoted, you know, right around the time he turned 50 into kind of understanding we wanna do more of the things that we love to do with the people that we love to do ’em with. Uh, we try to create experiences, experience over things is really important and, and it doesn’t have to cost money. I think that’s the big thing is a lot of people are drawn to Jesse because of how he’s a serial entrepreneur. it’s like what you look up. I mean, this guy sold, um, you know, he was a, he started off as a rapper and then sold jingles to all the NBA teams. Sold that company. And while that company was flying him out to pretty much sign a sign over the deal, they flew in private and that’s when he was on the plane and was like, people fly like this. We’re gonna, we’re gonna start a private jet company with no aviation experience. Did it. Sold it to Warren Buffet, then , took coconut water, sold it to Coca-Cola, then took mountains that weren’t his, and sold it to iFit. And so most people follow him for business, but if you can really see what he’s saying, really listen to the values that he’s placing on his family. You know, spending time with his parents that that’s the lesson that I take from it. is money, is, is one thing, you know, and he’ll say it like this, he’ll say, you know, money’s nice to have, it helps, but it’s, it’s not the end all, be all, you know, he talks about he lost his father this past year and he says, you know, my father was a spiritual billionaire. And you hear it all the time. I mean, there’s people who in, in many different aspects of what, you know, call their income is, is far less than others and their, their happiness meters through the roof. And that’s really what it’s about is, is being our authentic self. And, um, I tell him all the time, as great as he is with business, I take more from parenting from him. And um, you know, we have kids that are similar ages and so we’re going through the same things and it’s like, how do you balance all these different, you know, stresses that we’ve put in our lives? And it’s, it really comes down to, I nev I’m never too tired from my kids. I seek out experiences. I’m going to date my spouse because that’s something that, you know, as you’ve been married, you know, I’ve been married, um, my wife and I have been together for 16 years. It’s real easy to go through the motions with kids. But we intentionally seek out this time. because there’s all these different buckets. There’s our relationships, there’s our friends and family. There’s business, but there’s health and wellness, and we want all those buckets to be as full as possible. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Britton Barbee: And that’s, that’s really what our focus is, is putting all those things down. Looking at your year at a glance with our, with our calendar club and saying, what are the things that I wanna do this year before everything else fills in, before weddings pop up, before there’s people robbing us of our time. We gotta put down those things now because the truth is, is we don’t know how much time we have. And and that’s the reason we have to plan it now.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I think, I can’t remember which one of the books he wrote it in, but he said, you know, with money, if, if you were a good person before money, you’re an even better person with money. Right. If you were a bad person before money, you’re an even worse person with a lot of money. Right. And I think that’s so true, man. And you know, I see it being in wealth management. Um, you know, we work with great people. And these great people become ultra successful financially. But man, they also are great people for the community. They’re great people for their families. They’re great people for charities. They’re, you know, on and on and on and on, right? And I always say, well, were they that person first? And that’s why they became successful, right? Because I don’t believe you just overnight become successful. And then, oh, now I’m a good person. Right? That, that doesn’t exist. And, and I get to see it, and I’ve seen it for 21 years. And so people listening, right? It’s like, think about the choices you’re making now. Even those 20 year olds, somethings that are listening to this, right? And they think, well, that’s easy for Jesse to say that he is. You know, they’re billionaires, right? Yeah, maybe. But what was he doing when he was 20 and 25? And you know, he was thinking differently back then when he was broke, living on people’s couches and just trying to make a living, right?.  Britton Barbee: Yeah. Well, and, and and too, so for, for anyone who’s listening that’s, that’s in their twenties. I mean, I think the thing that you have to look at is, is Jesse’s 54. So you, you see, hi. You see him now. But like you just mentioned, I mean, people don’t remember when he was sleeping on couches. It’s kind of like that, that’s something that it’s, it’s almost like fairytale because you don’t see that today. You assume it never happened. But I, I promise he remembers, because he still thanks those people all the time. You know, his 50th birthday, he brought ’em all in just to say, I am where I am today because you let me sleep on your couch. And so that genuine appreciation, because think about how easy it would be to, to be like, well, hey, yay, I slept on your couch. Look at me now, you’re welcome, almost. He’s not like that. And, and I think the tough thing for a lot of people to, to really get in their head is, is that, you know, if, if someone were to give you 10 million and say like, Hey, what would you do with this 10 million dollars? Quickly, everyone can come up with what they would do. I would start this business. I would do that. I would be so happy. Then you have to realize that no one’s gonna give you 10 million dollars. And how many of those things on that list can you do today that don’t require 10 million dollars? And so much of it is there and, and really what we wanna look for is, you know, we always say that we want to be low aggravation, high reward, that like that’s what we want. I’m working to a spot in my life where my business and the things that I do are low aggravation because I want to do them. I like the people that I’m around. And it’s high reward, it’s fulfilling to me. But when you’re tw in your twenties or thirties and you’re starting out, you’re probably high aggravation, low reward. And you have to work to a spot. Or you have to determine how much money do I really need to make to be happy or to do the things that I wanna do to take care of the family the way that I wanna take care of. Because that’s not all, you know, income. And like you said, you, you see it in wealth management. How many of these people have so much money, but it’s, it’s, it’s never enough. Or it’s, it’s not fulfilling and, and you sit back and go like, well, what, what else do you really need? The priorities are outta line again. Money helps. But I can promise you, when you’re sick, you’ve probably heard Jesse say this before, like, yeah, take all the money in the world. But when, when you have, when you have a cold, when you can’t like swallow because your throat is swollen, what do you wanna do? All you wanna be able to do is just like, have a, not have a sore throat, but money can’t take that away… Brett Gilliland: Nope.  Britton Barbee: So that’s really where we get into the health and wellness aspect of, you know, if you have health, you have hope, and if you have hope, you have everything. It’s never been about money. It’s, it’s really about how we see the world and, and how we attack each day knowing that it’s not always gonna go the way we want it to.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah. And you’re spot on, man. It’s, it’s, and it makes me think about too, it’s never gonna go the way we want to, is the, I always talk about being a student in the game and your mindset and how powerful that is. So what do you do to be a student of the game of life, um, amongst all the notifications and the noise and the news? All the negative crap that’s going on out there. H how do you stay focused in the right mindset to continue to produce every day?  Britton Barbee: Well, I think as leaders, right? It’s, it’s our obligation to make sure that we, we establish what the priorities need to be. And in a negative filled world where it’s you, you can open your phone and it’s just a negative news bomb. That’s all it is, right? It’s, it’s how do you positively prime yourself? and, and understand that there is good in the world. And I’m not, I’m not, you know, pretending that I live in this fairytale where everything’s good and everything’s great, but I do choose the way that I react to the news that I receive. Um, and, and I’m, I’m very, I’m a very firm believer in that, you know, when something bad happens, you know, as unpopular as it may be, nothing bad or good happens, it’s really just our reaction to it. You know, I decide how much anxiety something’s worth. And won’t give it anymore. And, you know, ultimately anything that’s happened to me, I, I, I try to endure it. I remind myself I’ve made it through a hundred percent of everything in my life so far. Everything. So why would this be any different? Maybe it’s not ideal. Maybe it didn’t go the way that I wanted to, but we pivot, we pivot and we keep pushing. And if it doesn’t go the way that I wanted to, that was never the plan anyway. It’s just what I thought I wanted to happen, and then we figure out a way. So where I am today, I promise you, four or five, six years ago, two years ago, I wouldn’t have said this is where I would be, but everything has led me to be exactly here. And so it’s the constant reminder too. I think as a leader you have to make sure that you teach your people vulnerability, that you tell ’em like, Hey, yeah, no, this is tough. I don’t love this, but this is how we push through it. We don’t let us get rattled. We don’t get impacted by one thing. We keep moving forward every time.  Brett Gilliland: Well, it, it leads me to my question I ask every guest just about every guess is the fears, the fears we put in our minds. How many of those fears have actually blown up to the magnitude you put ’em in your mind to be? Britton Barbee: Very rarely any, right? It, it’s, if you think about it, we, what is it? Uh, the old saying, like, we, we suffer more imagine troubles, right? And, um, I really think about this idea of rumination of, you know, like that ruminations, like a rocking chair, sitting in a rocking chair, hoping to go somewhere. And so if you’re thinking about something in the past, present, or future with a negative thought, it’s rumination. But if you think about it in a positive past, present, or future, it’s reflection. You can have anxiety and, and excitement. They’re the, they’re the same chemicals. It’s just how you, how you look at it. I have something coming up that’s big man. I’m nervous. I hope it goes, I don’t know how it’s gonna go, or I have something big coming up, I have a huge opportunity in front of me. Yeah, it, it’s really that simple. But we’ve almost kind of been told that, you know, you have to be, you know, hard-nosed and show no fear and, and why not? I, I, I fail so much every day, as a father, as a husband, you know, in business, all these different things, and it’s the humility to know that I’ll continue to make mistakes and I hope I make mistakes. You know, one of the big things that Sarah Blakely talks about was the celebration of failure from her father. They would sit down at the dinner table and say, who made a mistake today? So, What do you think I do now? Sarah’s obviously super successful and we’re not talking about the inventions or the things that she’s made. It’s more so how did you, how did you fail today? So my kids know when I say, Hey, how was the day? They already know what’s coming next. What did you mi make mistake? Now with my seven-year-old, I got to a spot where he was like, MI missed all the questions on my spelling test failed big. And I’m like, well, hold on. That’s not the idea here, you know, but the, the, the principle is there, but you know, we want to make sure that we’re celebrating the attempt to do something outside of our comfort zone. And, and that’s where that, you know, fear right? Can come from, but we, yeah. We just have to dive into it each time.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It, it’s, it’s true too, man. And I think, what was it? They, they hooked up, uh, you know, humans to their brain and, and it’s the, the brain doesn’t know the difference between, and the body doesn’t know the difference between excitement and nervousness or anxiety. They show up on a, on a wavelength, the exact same. So part of that is like how you start to embrace the fear. And, and I know I’ve had to do that big time over the, over the years, is the things that I get worried about. I, I struggle with anxiety about those, some of those things. And so it’s now becoming an ally of mine to where I’m transparent and vulnerable and trying to help as many people as I can with that. But it’s understanding that, oh, I may have this feeling. But my body doesn’t know if it’s excitement or nervousness, so now it’s how am I gonna train my body for what I’m getting ready to do?  Britton Barbee: Right. It’s, it’s how do we respond? How do we process that information? And, and again, I I, I’m not gonna sit here and tell you that I spend everything to a positive tune. We all have that time where it seems like things aren’t going a certain way. It is tough. You have the kids. Um, life happens, and that goes back to what we were talking about, high probability, low probability events, something’s gonna pop up, that’s outside the norm. But you know, one of the things that Jesse really taught me too was that all these things that we do, when you decide to have kids, everything that happens afterwards with your kids, you signed up for. So when your son wakes up in the middle of the night, 4:00 AM even though you’re tired and you know he’s having a nightmare and you need to do this, that and the other. You, you signed up for that when you decided to have him. And so you, you, you step into that role and you don’t complain about it. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Britton Barbee: It can’t just be celebrate the good. You have to take everything with it. And, and you know, I’m very, very, very aware of the time that, um, the limited time that we all have on this planet, so why would I want to have negative interactions with, with my kids . I do. And I’m not gonna act like I don’t, but it really is something that you have to be so mindful of, so mindful. Brett Gilliland: I’m, uh, I’m gonna pull up, I’m gonna be transparent and, uh, vulnerable as we sh as we talk about, so we talk about, people think things just happen, right? So people probably think we just show up. We hit record and we, we record a podcast and the rest is history, right? They, they don’t see the, the messages through Instagram, you know, going through all this stuff, getting it scheduled, right? They don’t see, uh, uh, lemme see. Where’s the one I’m looking at here? This is me. Uh. This is my response to Britton the other day. So he’s, he’s getting ready to be on a podcast with me, and he thinks the guy that you know, asked him to be on the podcast is gonna obviously be there. Uh, well, we, it was six degrees. We had a ton of snow. Uh, I drove a, a different car, uh, for safety reasons, and I, I didn’t bring my dang key fob with me for the office because it was the 23rd of December at that time. All of our staff was off. We gave him off before New Year’s Eve or Christmas Eve, and then the day after Christmas. And I said, this is so embarrassing. I wasn’t thinking we gave our entire company the day off today. I drove my Jeep to work because of the weather, and I’m locked outta my damn office. This is so rude. I’m embarrassed. My sincere apology. Here’s his response, which you’ve heard him say on the, on the, uh, podcast today. No worries. Every day there’s always a high probability of a low probability event. No need to apologize, brother. Next question was for me, what does one o’clock central on the 28th look like? And so point being is, man, that could have gone one or two directions. This guy’s a clown. He can’t even show up to a podcast that he, that he scheduled. I’m out. Right? But yet how we respond to things matter, right? Then how we interact matter. And then there’s that trust, there’s that respect. Even though you screwed up. Take responsibility. Talk about you’re embarrassed, you screwed up, and it’s okay. Things happen, right? So when you hear me share that about our situation, what are you hearing? What are you thinking?  Britton Barbee: Yeah. I, I, I think, I think messages, um, even something as simple as, as messaging through Instagram or, or text messages, right. You know, it, it, you can learn a lot about a person through how they respond. And to me it’s, it’s, it’d be very easy. First and foremost, I’m very, uh, I like to think, uh, I have a humility about me that if someone asked, and this was a Coach Leach thing, he used to tell us all the time when we would have, uh, autograph signings at the beginning of the year, whether you were a walk-on or you were the starting quarterback, you sign every autograph cuz there’s gonna be a day no one cares for your autograph. And it’s the same thing with conversations. It’s, it’s giving the opportunity to, to say, Hey, I would love to have a conversation with you, whether this is recorded, whether this helps anybody or not. Sometimes it’s just connecting with people. So for you to sit there and tell me, Hey, this is so embarrassing. This is what happened, this, that, and the other. In my head I’m going, yeah, man, I get it. I understand that that’s, that’s a hundred percent something that that could happen. It all makes sense, right. And so what it tells me is, is what you value. So let me break that down for a second. You said, I, I, you know, I took another car and your father four kids, so safety’s a priority to you. To me, that means you’re a family oriented guy. Not only that, then you said not. I didn’t realize our office was locked. We gave everybody off. So in, in the business that you’re in, it would be really, really easy to have everybody working that day to be more convenient for you , but you didn’t do that. You, you prioritized your employees time with their families over your convenience of getting into work an extra day, right? Yeah. So that means you put a high level of trust in, in, in, in, uh, you know, really free time for your, for your people for the holidays. So in one sentence of you telling me like, oh man, I’m having a pretty crappy day. I’m like, wow, this guy cares about, you know, his family cares about his employees. Yeah, man, we’ll reschedule. You know, it’s real simple. And, and that’s the big takeaway. You can learn a lot about somebody in two minutes. You know, so if I’m late, right? If I’m late, uh, to this, and I tell you like, I’m so sorry. I was, I was, I was up late with my son last night. You know, he’s, he’s struggling with, uh, you know this right now. And I was up early with him, and then I’m doing this rowing challenge where I’m doing a thousand meters a day. It’s the 28. I have 20, 28,000 meters to do, and I just did that. Didn’t get much sleep, but I wanted to make sure that I was here. I apologize for being a few minutes late from that, you can go, okay, hold on. The guy cares about his fitness, but he also cares about his family in, in, in, in 30 seconds. So you can quickly establish who you are and what you’re about in such a short time. And people who are truly authentic and, and have the be have your best interests in mind. They’ll respond to that. Authentic people attract authentic people. That’s why we enjoy conversations with each other is because we know, okay, hey, he obviously has values and here’s the best part about it. It doesn’t matter what you think politically, religiously, or anything else. You can have mutual respect for somebody just by seeing what they’re about because it’s like, Hey, all of a sudden you and I have similar values. I value, I, I enjoy being, you know, married to my wife. So I always tell people I have a high interest in remaining married to my wife. So I try to do things that lead to that, and if it doesn’t, I’m out. Right. And so we can really connect on being fathers, you know, being, being married, having these different things. We have so much in common, though we’ve never met in person or anything like that. I can quickly see from your, what you would call like, oh, this is an embarrassment, right. Not an embarrassment, brother. I get it. I know. We’ll, we’ll, will we schedule, you know?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s awesome, man. Well, that’s, I think that’s good. That’s a, that’s a great conversation and, and you know, things, I’m, I’m glad again, as, as guys, we can be transparent all and share those things, right? Because that’s important. That’s part of this living a future greater than your past. I mean, that, that’s our mission, uh, for our firm as my personal mission in life is helping people achieve a future greater than their past. I mean, everybody wants a future greater than your past. It doesn’t mean you had a bad past, but it means you want a future that’s still greater than your past. And, and that’s what we’re trying to help people do every day through this, through our work with investments and so on and so forth. And I’m just thankful for that, that conversation, man, and, and for us to be able to share with that. So what, what are you when you look at 2022? We’re winding down here. We got a few days left. And then we look going into 2023. What are, what are you thankful for for 2022. And what are you excited about for 2023?  Britton Barbee: That’s a great question. Um, Extremely thankful for the opportunities that I’ve had with, with my family this year. Um, I’ve, I’ve moved us from Dallas to Houston, Houston to Austin, Austin, back up to Dallas in, in the last few years. So, um, buying a house is probably the worst time to ever buy one in history, but being able to have my family settled and feel home was really important to me as, as a father and a husband. So I’m grateful for that. Um, I’m back close to a lot of family. That’s really important for us too. Uh, so I’m, I’m grateful for that. And, you know, being able to create some of these memories that we’ve made through, you know, even in a 48 hour trip, you know, we, we were able to bond through adversity while, you know, we, we took our coaching group to Minnesota, we slept outside. It was minus 14, we cracked the ice of a frozen lake, got in it and just really got outside of our comfort and it really set a tone for the year. Like, what else is possible? You know? Um, it, it was, it was just… Brett Gilliland: So we’re gonna, we’re gonna call time out there. We’re gonna call time out. So we slept outside in negative 14. We cracked ice, we got in the water, which tells me it’s probably negative something. Uh, and and you were in that water? Taking the mind to a whole nother level of, of places that nobody can think you can actually go to.  Britton Barbee: It’s, I’ll tell you, um, there’s been very few times that I can recall as an adult where I had a tremendous amount of stillness. And when we were in Minnesota, so we, we took a group of people out there and, um, we were in the tent. Jesse actually owes me his life because I, I kept the fire burning, uh, to keep us somewhat, you know, below freezing. Um, but the being in that ice. So when I’d never, like I said, I’m in Texas, so we don’t have anything like this. So imagine a whole lake frosted over. I mean, the ice is super thick. We were out there with axes, chainsaws, trying to crack through it. When I went underneath the water, I was, it was, it was completely silent. I heard nothing. I was under, you know, however many, you know, uh, miles of ice. And I could just, in that moment really what stuck out was what’s important. Take care of your family, take care of yourself, take care of yourself so that you’re here for your family and, and make more of these memories as easy as as possible for everybody and share that message. And so creating that stillness is super important for me. As we look to 23 and with as busy as we are, so many of us are just looking for not a break, but we’re looking for clarity. We’re looking for stillness. and we create that in little pockets of time, right? It’s not an everyday, you know, 23, 24 hours a day where I’m just super calm, super chill, but if I can get 10 minutes, how much better can I be if we magnify that out by 365 days in a year? And so that, that’s super important and that’s really, The reason that we do the things that we do is to establish that even, even further, and pass that message along. Like you said, if we want our future to be better than our past, we have to really learn from it and, and find out when are we at our best, what are the things that we do each day that make us great and do more of those things? But having the, the, the commitment and the discipline to stay at it.  Brett Gilliland: I think the important thing is there too, and I think Jesse’s great at this, especially this big ass calendar club, but um, is schedule that stuff, right? I mean, I’ve got, it’s over here, but I’ve got a, I’ve got a journal. At the end of every 90 days, I go through, uh, what I call my gratitude session. And I’ll look back at, you know, every picture I take here on my iPhone, right? And I’ll say, okay, here’s, and I’ll write down, you know, did this, it went, you played, put putt golf with the kids, or did you know whatever, right? Did this thing and write it down everything we’ve done over the last 90 days. And think about how thankful I am for that. But then, What am I gonna do the next 90 days? Right? And it’s not perfect. There’s things spur the moment, things that happen, but let’s schedule something, but get it on the calendar so we can make sure it happens. Britton Barbee: I, I think it’s, it’s so critical, you know? And, and if you don’t, if you don’t do that, if you don’t reflect, if you don’t plan, you’ll look up and somebody else will live your life for you. Um, that’s not a, that’s not a thread. It’s, it’s really just think about it. If you don’t prioritize your weekends with your kids uh, you know, with your family it will fill up. And, and you know, one of the lessons Jesse taught us is how expensive the word yes is. How expensive it is when someone says, Hey, can you do this? And you say, oh, I have this going on, but it’s not on the count. Yeah, I can make that work. Yes, I can do it. That, that’s robbing your time, especially if you don’t, if it’s not something that you want to do, and this isn’t about thinking that you’re holier than thou or better, or you don’t need to be in this, but it’s really like I would rather do something with my kids. I’d rather do something with my family. Right? And if I have that scheduled down, it’s, it’s, it’s honest to say, Hey, would love to, but I already have this. Let’s book another time. And when you look at the calendar, at a glance, you find pockets of opportunity. And it’s kind of crazy, right? If it’s like, Hey, you know, Brett, let’s get together, let’s play some golf. And you’re like, Hey, yeah, I have March 3rd available, kinda like what, but there’s also something that’s you can really appreciate about that. That you’re, you’re optimizing at such a high level because, you know, Jesse says it all the time, he’s 54, average man lifts to be 75. He’s like, I love summer and I only have 20 plus summers left. I love summer and I, and I, you know, hopefully have more but only have 20 left. And when we think about our relationship with time, it really changes our perspective on how much time we have. Right?  Brett Gilliland: It does, absolutely does, does. I’m gonna put my, uh, eight year old in the spot over here. Uh, he doesn’t know this, but I’m gonna ask him to ask a question. So this is my eight year old, Asher. This is, this is Asher . Britton Barbee: Asher.  Brett Gilliland: He’s my, uh, fourth boy. He’s keen to work with dad today. So any questions you want to ask Mr. Barber here?  Asher Gilliland: How’d you start… Brett Gilliland: barbee?  Asher Gilliland: How’d you start out in life?  Britton Barbee: Ooh, man. Great question. I should do the whole interview here.  Brett Gilliland: Good question.  Britton Barbee: Yeah, that’s a great, that’s a great question, Asher um, how’d I start out? Oh, you know, I can take that a lot of ways. Um, but I started out like I was the youngest in my family. , um, everyone in my family, you know, played sports. I grew up going to all my brother and sisters sporting events. Um, so I grew up on soccer fields, basketball courts, baseball diamonds, just running around, catching foul balls, trying to get snow cones. You know, that whole thing that you do is the youngest. And what I chose to do was it became, you know, competitive. Like while my brother and sister pretty much got all the glory because they were older, they were in the more competitive sports, I wanted to compete with them. So I would practice with the older kids. And I got beat a lot. I’ll tell you, I, I, it didn’t look good at the time. I wasn’t faster than them, but I pushed myself to be that way. And then probably year eight, so probably about the time I was like 11, I was bigger than my brother anyway. So, um, it allowed me to really kind of step into and just keep pushing. And, uh, when the, when you’re the youngest in the family, um, I personally think that you get to learn all the lessons, and you get to learn from all the mistakes that they made, that your siblings make, and it helps make you a better person.  Brett Gilliland: I love it. I love it. It’s funny because we always joke with him that he literally came home from the hospital and went to a baseball game before he went home. So it’s like… Britton Barbee: I, I’m right there with you, Asher. I understand. I understand how it is, but you’ll be better for it. Trust me. Just hang in there. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, yeah. Sometimes we’ll, we’ll have some, a little bit of, uh, discussions because his big brothers might have, uh, you know, kicked him in the shins or done something when they’re out there playing soccer. But they just keep fighting back. Man, it’s important. Well, Britton, it’s been awesome having you, man. There’s tons of wisdom, tons of takeaways for me. This is an awesome interview and, uh, even though you know, you get yourself locked outta your office sometimes, good things can still happen. And uh, and we did it. We had a great podcast, man. So I appreciate you being on the Circuit of Success. Britton Barbee: Thanks for having me, y’all. Y’all enjoy it. And Asher, keep those questions coming, man. I love it. [/fusion_text][/fusion_builder_column][/fusion_builder_row][/fusion_builder_container]

Gabrielle Bosche shares her story of going from a politics-obsessed middle-schooler to a 17-year-old author to the co-CEO of The Purpose Company. She and her company have dedicated themselves to helping people discover their purpose, who their purpose is helping, and how to scale something that is leaving an impact in alignment with their purpose. She shares insight into discovering your purpose in your life, saying, “… I think we have far more wisdom inside of us than we realize.” She encourages us to find our purpose, impact and share it with others. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37LMxZhIm5o Brett Gilliland: The Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’ve got Gabrielle Bosche with me. Gabrielle, how you doing?  Gabrielle Bosche: I’m doing well, my friend. Excited to chat with you.  Brett Gilliland: Excited to have you. You are in, uh, looks like I said before we started recording. Looks like you’re about 400 stories up in the air. That building looks so tall behind you, but uh, I think you’re the 43rd. Gabrielle Bosche: Yeah, just 46. Yeah. If you’re afraid of height 46, it’s not, it’s not for you.  Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. In Dallas, Texas. So, uh, everything’s bigger in Texas we hear up here in St. Louis, so we’ll, uh, we’ll talk about how big the vision is and on the brand and everything we’re doing , right.  Gabrielle Bosche: Sounds [inaudible] Brett Gilliland: Awesome. So, uh, oh, let me read this. I thought this was pretty cool. Uh, my assistant Robin is phenomenal and gets some stuff on our guest and, uh, but you are the founder and president of The Millennial, uh, Solution, an international training and consulting company, uh, bridging the generation gap. You and your husband Brian, have been called the next generation’s motivational titans. That’s a big one. Uh, they’re bestselling authors, international speakers, and together they founded The Purpose Company. Um, so tons of stuff here, but you’ve helped, uh, companies, um, well actually the Navy and the Air Force, which is cool. Top brands in the world. You’ve worked with presidential campaigns, been on Success Magazine, NPR, SiriusXM Radio Bloomberg, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And you are a two-time Ted Talk giver, which is a big deal.  So I will be quiet now, Gabrielle, and I’ll let you do some talking. But what has made you the woman you are today, making a huge impact?  Gabrielle Bosche: I think it really, for me came down to one word and that was purpose. From a very young age, I think I knew that I was here for a reason. I didn’t know what that reason was. Like many of us, you kind of go through life’s twists and turns and expectations thinking that, um, at, when I was in high school, thinking that I knew absolutely what I wanted to do, which was get into politics. So I studied politics and religion in, in undergrad, which is two things if you ever wanna make people shut up at a dinner party or Thanksgiving, say that you’re major, you’re majoring in politics and religion. Brett Gilliland: Right?  Gabrielle Bosche: Um, but I, I knew that I wanted to make a difference in the world. And so it was that curiosity of why am I here and what am I gonna do with my time? That I think really created an intentionality with my life. So I wrote my first book when I was 17, wrote my second. Second one, I think I was 23 or 24. Uh, and I think just really early on I had a, a curiosity around being present and being on purpose.  Brett Gilliland: Was your family in that, or like what, I mean, what makes a 17 year old think that they can write a book? And, and I’m asking cause I know people I’ve talked to, I personally struggle with that too. It’s like, who wants to read my book? Right? But at the same time, here you are a 17 year old girl and you’re like, I’m gonna write a book.  Gabrielle Bosche: Yeah. I mean, I wish it was this epic story. I mean, truth be told, I was 17, graduating from high school, going into college. Um, I was five foot eight. Uh, I was, uh, had more, more smile than teeth at the time. Um, I had eight of my teeth pulled, um, I going into high school. So I was just like this really awkward, kind of gumby like figure in high school. And so I think from a really early kind of time, I, I decided, , you know, maybe the high school thing isn’t really for me. What is it that I have to contribute? So I think I just got really deep into studying great orators. I was listening to Tony Robbins on my way to, to middle school with my mom. I was, you know, studying, uh, Ronald Reagan when I was, uh, in JFK when I was a junior in high school. So I think I kind of always knew I wanted to get into it. And so, yeah, I just kind of challenged myself one day. And said, Hey, I’m gonna write a book. And, and six months later there was a book. Now I’m, I’m not telling you it was any good, let me be very clear. My book wasn’t very good.  Brett Gilliland: Wasn’t a best seller. Huh? Gabrielle Bosche: It was not, it was not, um, uh, really something that, that I’m gonna point back on and say, yeah, it was some, you know, some child genius, but, but I think it was, uh, drive and passion probably more than anything else that I think kind of pushed me through that, that whole journey. Brett Gilliland: That’s amazing. Well, good for you. And so let’s talk a little bit about, you’ve mentioned purpose and, and that’s hence the name of your company, The Purpose Company. You’ll see on my microphone here, the f Greater than P, that stands for, uh, helping people achieve a future greater than their past. Uh, that is my, uh, personal mission. That is our firm’s mission. Um, we have amazing people that are doing that every single day on the communities we serve. But, but how do you help people get to know what their purpose was? Because mine came, you know, probably 14, 15 years into a career. And this hit me like a ton of bricks. Right. So how are you helping people find that purpose that may not have it yet? Gabrielle Bosche: Yeah, I think the, the big challenge on the, the path to finding our purpose is defining what purpose is. When you ask most people what purpose is, they kind of say that they know what it means, but when you ask ’em to define it, they might not have a, a clear definition for, it’s kind of like Bitcoin. It’s like, I know what it is, but I don’t know exactly how it works Brett Gilliland: Right. Gabrielle Bosche: So, so that path towards purpose is first defining purpose, which we define purpose simply as the best of what you have to help others. The best of what you have to help others. And so because of that, you can get really clear and finite on what that actually is. And so if I only have 20 minutes with someone, if we’re getting coffee Brett, and you’re like, Hey, I wanna figure out what my purpose is, I’m gonna ask you a series of questions, but primarily I wanna know what have you overcome that you can help someone else overcome. That path to using your purpose usually has something to do with an element of our story, the hardest times in our life, and that’s where you really put purpose to the pain that you’ve experienced. Whether it was the loss of a loved one, overcoming a trauma, experiencing rejection as a child. There are all these elements of who we are today that when you look back through a lens of purpose, you can really put some meaning to it. So the purpose piece is really first, first focused on what have we overcome that we can help other people overcome? Then the next question naturally is who, who can we help with our purpose and the who really does change throughout our lives. If you’re staying at home as a parent, that that who is, is your kids in your community? If. The, an executive or a CEO, your hu who is your, your customers, your clients, your employees. If you’re an entrepreneur, it’s, it’s, it’s your community and, and your clients. So focusing on who is, is kind of the, the exciting opportunity that we get to do every single day at The Purpose Company, which is helping people get clarity on their purpose, who it is that they’re going to help with their purpose, and how do they actually scale something that they can be known for that’s aligned with their purpose. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I think that’s the hardest thing, right? Is how do we, how do we scale it? And you hear that word it’s used a lot all the time. Now, is that scalability? So how do you, let’s take, let’s just pick on the future greater in your past for, for example, um, how, how do you scale that? How do you do something with it? I think I know who the people are that I wanna serve, right? Our clients, like you said, our employees. But how do we scale that? How do we take it that next step further?  Gabrielle Bosche: Well, I think you have to consider, What is your scope of impact? Some people are called to the one, they get incredible fulfillment working one-on-one with, with individuals and, and that’s really where they see the highest impact of their purpose. Some people are one to many. Their classroom webinar workshop, they really, or, or a group of clients at a time. And then there’s some of us, not many of us, that are one to millions that they know for whatever reason, that message that they have inside of them is, is, is greater than the, than just even the current audience that they’re serving. So focusing on your scope of impact is really incredibly important. Cuz if you’re called one to millions and you’re working one-to-one, you’re gonna be frustrated. But if you’re called to do one-to-one, and you’re focused on one-to-many, you’re gonna feel frustrated and overwhelmed. So just clarifying that piece alone is gonna help create fulfillment and, and fulfillment’s another thing we talk so much about because it fulfillment is the result of helping others with your purpose. Fulfillment is kind of the evidence, it’s the footprint that you’re actually on purpose. And so if you’re measuring your days by fulfillment, we call them fulfillment transactions, how many times did you know that the work that you were doing was making a difference? Not in a general sense, like, Hey, thanks so much, you’re a great person, but because you did this thing or because of who you are, because of what it is that you taught me, my life is better. So, so the goal for all of us is to have at least one fulfillment transaction a day. One, one moment where it’s either an observation, you can observe someone being, um, being improved or blessed by what it is that you do. It can be a transaction of someone saying, Hey, thank you so much, or I’m gonna pay you to help me with this thing, cuz I see that you’re truly uniquely gifted in this area, or it can be just the scope of work where you just know that the scope of your work is truly making a difference, changing the industry, creating a trajectory, having a maverick moment. Those are kinda the three areas where you can measure fulfillment on, on a daily basis.  Brett Gilliland: And I keep asking these questions. I think it’s huge because you just so confidently and, uh, and humbly say it, but it, it’s, it’s hard for some people to say, I’m here to serve millions, right? So, so what do you do on days where maybe you, I don’t know, your, your social, uh, life and anything like, but what, maybe you stayed up last night a little too late. Maybe you had a few too many beverages and you just, quite frankly didn’t, you felt like crap and didn’t want to do it today, but you can’t have many of those days, I would assume, if you’re serving one and millions, right? So, so how do you do that on days you don’t wanna do it? Or maybe the belief’s not there? Gabrielle Bosche: I think a lot of times people feel either distracted or discouraged or yeah, frankly you have just kind of one of those days that you don’t feel like yourself. And so, um, rest is important. So I’m not trying to say, kind of push through the pain. If your body’s tired, certainly give it some rest, but, but one of the things that I really love helping people with is working through what a lot of people call imposter syndrome. I think it’s kind of overused, but, but it’s that kind of fear of how, who am I to say I’m called to, to millions, or even to many. But when you think about the scope of your impact and you, you put a face to your impact. When you put a face to your purpose, it changes everything. It’s not about you and how you feel. It’s about them and how you can help them. And so if you look at the work that you’re doing every day according to the people you’re helping, there are people, there are millions of people out there waiting for the story that you have to tell, or the invention that you’re gonna put out there, or the service that you’re currently working to fine tune and make better and better. If you see your purpose as a duty, it changes the trajectory of why you do what you do every day is because, you know, you have to get out of your own way every day. You have to push past the, the frustration or the disappointment or, or, or the hangover to say, Hey, there’s people out there waiting for me to show up, and it’s not about me and how I feel. It’s about them and, and how I can bless other people with, with the purpose that I have inside of me. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. How do you go about your planning your day? Do you do that? Like, so today’s Tuesday as we sit here and record, are you, are you gonna tonight or this afternoon sometime, plan for tomorrow? Did you already do that for the week? Like, what does that planning and uh, visualization look like for you? Gabrielle Bosche: So I, I plan my week the Sunday before. So Sunday evenings is when I’m reflecting on the previous week, and I’m usually measuring three things. I’m measuring intent, I’m measuring execution, and I’m measuring charge. How fu, how good do I feel about going into the next week? And so usually every day I’ve got it pretty well set. Um, I have brilliance hours in the morning. So I don’t talk to anybody before 11:00 AM Um, that’s when I have my first team meeting where I’m checking in with the team or, um, reviewing their results, kind of giving them one-on-one feedback if that’s necessary. But my mornings are focused on my brilliance hours if I’m working on a book. I’ll be focusing on that if I’m improving a core element of our course or launching an event, that’s what I’m focusing on in the morning. And then the afternoons are really focused on, uh, whether coaching, if I’m working with a client or fulfillment, if I’m working on something for one of our, our, our consulting projects. Uh, and then Friday is kind of just an open day. So if I didn’t get anything done each of those days, Friday I have kind of a set block of time that’s kind of my overflow days. Cause many of us set goals and we don’t get to them. And so I kind of naturally build in. an overflow on Fridays to kind of be a catch-all to make sure anything that didn’t get accomplished, I can push it to Fridays and make sure that it doesn’t flow into the next week. Brett Gilliland: Well, what’s frustrating to you when you, when you think of human beings today and you’re serving millions of them, how, how, what, what frustrates you about us?  Gabrielle Bosche: I think that’s an awesome question. I love that. Mike, how long do we have? Um, no, I think one of the things… Brett Gilliland: Get your list out.  Gabrielle Bosche: Yeah. I think one of the things that makes me kind of cock my head and look at, at us, and it’s not just, you know, us as a, as a, as a, as a group, I, I, I consider this for myself as well, is, you know, why do we not do the things that we say we wanna do, even though we know they’re really important to us. And so I don’t think it’s a lack of motivation, but I think it’s a lack of clarity and putting meaning to action. So I mean, I work in kind of the motivational space where, you know, people come to me and say, Hey, I want to find my purpose, or use my purpose, or I wanna, you know, get paid to kind of do what it is that you do as a branded expert. And there’s the desire, but there’s that gap between desire and action. And in that space right there, it fascinates me. Um, that’s where I’ve spent a lot of my time pulling stuff apart and studying human motivation and saying, you know, even in my own life, why is it that I have a desire, but my action can be lacking in certain elements of my life? Uh, and so it, it frustrating certainly, but, um, but, um, curiosity in, in inducing absolutely. Where that kind of, that gap that in between is one thing that I think about as humans is absolutely fascinating.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And so let’s stay on that kinda, that topic is about failures. I mean, have you had any, you know, failure I think we all have, we’re human right? The failure and, and if so, what did you learn from it and how did you apply that? Gabrielle Bosche: Oh my gosh. Yeah, I mean, I think tw my twenties were definitely, uh, failing and I’d like to say most of it was failing forward, but a lot of it was failing over and over again. Um, and I think my, my biggest failures, particularly when it came to business, I mean, I’ve been a business owner since I was 23 years old. Um, and a lot of it was really just kind of self taught and Googling my way to, to the next level of my business. I think the biggest failures that I experienced really came at kind of these, these points where, um, I had to let go and stop trying to do it myself. I think I, I, growing up I was like, you know, bootstrapping, figure it out. Google your way out of this. You know, I had kind of this do-it-yourself, um, kind of chip on my shoulder, and so I, I learned. Probably like four years or five years too late, that when you hit a snag in your life or in your business, that isn’t time to double down and figure out how you can do it. It’s time to find someone who’s doing it better than you to pull you out of the mud. And so that was definitely a big learning lesson throughout my twenties. Brett Gilliland: And be humble enough to know you need help. Right?  Gabrielle Bosche: Yeah. And, and I think that having a mirror either of someone in your life who loves you enough to say, Hey, you know, you’re saying that you wanna do one thing, but you’re not doing it. Um, and or holding a mirror up to yourself and having those reflection times and, and times to step out of your life and step outta your business to say, you know, am I proud of who I am right now? Would, would me in five years be proud of the activity that I’m, I’m, I’m currently pursuing to get me to this next level? If the answer is yes, keep going. But if the answer is no. It’s time to take some, to take some steps back and, and start to adjust.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Have, have you thought about this yet? I mean, maybe, maybe you haven’t, maybe haven’t, but I, I think about this. What would Brett, the 45 year old tell the 35 or the 30 year old Brett, or even the 25 year old Brett? Right. What, what advice would I have for that younger version with less gray hair, uh, than I have now? But what, what would I tell that guy? Gabrielle Bosche: Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: Have you talked about that for yourself?  Gabrielle Bosche: I think about that all the time. I kind of think about it in reverse though. I, I talk to future self a lot. So I don’t know if you’ve done that where, when, if I’m in a, in a bind or I’m kind of in between a couple of different options, I need some wisdom, I’ll take myself out to coffee and I’ll say, okay, what would future Gabs say to me right now?. Her with her wisdom and I think about me in 10 years and what I’ve accomplished, what would she say for me to do? Would she give me the perspective element? Would she give me something strategic? Would she um, kind of let me know that it’s all gonna be alright? Because I think we have far more wisdom inside of us than we realize. And so when I really am looking for wisdom, a lot of times that’s my first go-to is I’ll step out of myself, have a conversation with future me who has accomplished and is living out everything that I wanted to do and ask her what does she think I should do next? And, and that’s a really good leveling exercise. If you’re trying to think your way out of a situation, you find yourself in.  Brett Gilliland: I love that. I’m, I’m gonna have a conversation with Brett. The 55 year old Brett’s gonna talk.  Gabrielle Bosche: Yes, exactly. See what he’s up to.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. The, the 45 year old Brett tells the 35 though and the 30 year old that it’s gonna be okay. So maybe I’m, I’m talking to myself about the 45 or the 55 year old guy. Is having that conversation because it would be cool. And I, and I do think, hence the Future Greater than your past and a firm called Visionary Wealth Advisors, we think about the vision and the future all the time. I mean, I spend all day talking about that stuff, uh, but I think it’s important to sit down, have the questions, ask yourself some questions, take notes, and journal on that. Which moves me to the next question is how often are you writing or journaling just about life and goals and dreams and aspirations?  Gabrielle Bosche: Yeah, every day. I mean, truly, I’m, I’m usually writing notes doing, um, um, any sort of like vo voice note to myself. I’m a big fan of Google Keep. So I, I have that kind of for every category of my life where it’s an insight or something that I’m learning, um, I read every day. So I’m usually going through about a book a week. And so I write a summary of that book and I put in Google Keep as well. And I talk about it with my team. They share with me what books they’re reading, what they’re learning, um, and so it’s the reflection piece. So oftentimes we learn things and forget what we’ve learned because we’re not recording them. And so I, I knew that with the acceleration of, of my life and my career and the investments that I make in, in ourself and our company, that I was going to be irresponsible if I was just consuming. And then I was like a siv and it was just kind of, you , falling out where I just wasn’t really capturing that, that deep wisdom. So yeah, I’ve got, um, I used to just have sticky notes all over. I have whiteboards all over my condo. Um, but I learned the sticky notes, um, uh, way of recording your insights was not really scalable. Uh, so I, I turned to Google Keep and it’s, it’s worked super well for me. Brett Gilliland: I love it. I love it. What do you wish you had more time to do? Gabrielle Bosche: Oh, man. Yeah, I don’t know. I, um, I’m, I’m pretty good. I, I think I’m pretty good on kind of my time management. I, um, I know kind of at this point something I’ve really worked on is making more time for the people in my life. I get to do that a lot. I do a lot of trips with my friends, a lot of trips to go see family. Um, yeah. I don’t know.  Brett Gilliland: So now do you schedule that? Gabrielle Bosche: I think I’m pretty good. Brett Gilliland: Number. Yeah. Number two, I used to call it guilt-free golf. So I’m a big golfer and when I was a young advisor that I noticed about myself, when I would go Friday afternoon golfing and I didn’t do that week what I needed to do to be successful, I would play like absolute crap. Right? Because my mental state was back in the office , even though I was physically playing golf, then I created this guilt-free golf that if I did A, B and C throughout the week, I could go to the golf course and have less guilt. Right. And that worked. Yeah. And, and so, but I think hard chargers still sometimes struggle on taking that personal time away from the office. And, and if so, how have you gotten over that? Or what advice would you have for people?  Gabrielle Bosche: Yeah, I think that’s a really good point. Um, I think I definitely suffered from that a lot. Like the work guilt of I should be doing something else. Yeah. Um, but I think if I ever trigger into that, I reflect on, you know, did it really matter that much? I think sometimes that work guilt is kind of born by a hero complex of I’m absolutely necessary to everything in my business. And the truth is, um, if that’s the case, I’m not very good at running my business. Um, so certainly there’s elements in my business that I’m, you know, pretty darn necessary for, but, um, but the, the guilt doesn’t serve me. So, um, I kind of build, and Saturdays are my off days, so that’s like, I do no work whatsoever. And so, you know, I run so I run for a long time on Saturdays, and I’m just kind of out and about and I’ll kind of like run in one direction and then usually call my husband to come pick me up. Cause I’m like, okay, it’s been like nine miles. Can you come get me? Like, come on, I’m done now.  Brett Gilliland: Did you say nine or ninety? Gabrielle Bosche: Nine. Yeah, I’m nine.  Brett Gilliland: Okay. I was gonna say, my God, I think he’s a 90, like nine is a lot.  Gabrielle Bosche: Yeah. It’s it’s a lot. But yeah, I think to that point though, is giving yourself, um, a break to step away from something because, um, you know, we know the whole oxygen mask principle of, you know, put the mask on yourself first so you can help other people. And if you’re constantly feeling necessary to your company, to your job, and even to your family. Um, you have to really think about, have I created this for myself? Like, have I created an instance that I, I need to feel necessary? And I know that was kind of the case for me before, is I didn’t trust anyone enough to make the decisions for me. And now, you know, I’m like hey, I, I hope you guys make the right decisions and you know, if, if it’s the wrong decision, then, then we’ll live with it. But, um, but at the end of the day, future Gab is usually like, it’s not that big of a deal, go for the run.  Brett Gilliland: I love it. We’re gonna play a game. I’ve, I’ve never done this, so bear with me, uh, uh, future gab cause you have no idea what I’m gonna do here. So come on, take a number between one and 12. Gabrielle Bosche: 11.  Brett Gilliland: Okay, so now I’m gonna, I’m on your Instagram. I just pulled up your Instagram. We’re gonna play a game. So one cool, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. Now say one, two, or three. Two. All right. Your post on the 11th row of your Instagram and the second post over says you’re looking for three corporate professionals that live below their potential and want to find their purpose and launch their six figure expert business. Comment expert, expert below. So let’s walk through that post. All right. This, I think this is great because I have no idea where this is gonna go. Um, so walk me through that and why did you put that on there and, and what are you trying to do there?  Gabrielle Bosche: Yeah. That’s awesome. So we do kind of pushes in our community where we enroll about 10 people a week in our program called Purpose Mastery, that we help corporate professionals step into their purpose and become paid experts. So getting Ted Talks, writing books, um, becoming paid speakers. And so we do kind of these pushes in our community every once in a while to get folks into and our community. And so most people that we work with are corporate professionals who are like lawyers and doctors and executive vice presidents and entrepreneurs who are just really busy and kind of like the conversations we’re having right here who know that they’re entering a season where it’s not just about the success, but it’s about the significance. Um, so I’m a big believer in creating great content. We do, you know, a ton of free teaching every, every month. I do a free masterclass. We do a ton of just giving back to the community. Um, and then every once in a while we’re like, Hey, if you wanna work with us more, um, if there’s an opportunity for us to, um, we can jump on the phone. Brett Gilliland: I think it’s kinda that strategy of give, give, give, give, give, give, give. Right. Then ask for the business every now and then. Is that fair?  Gabrielle Bosche: Yeah. Well, it’s, it’s, um, I think that’s very, that’s very fair and kind of put another way is, um, a lot of times people just think it’s all about, you know, giving, giving, giving. But if you don’t, Ask people to engage with you, you’re actually stealing an opportunity to help them ,because someone reading my Instagram and seeing how I share how to create a TED Talk or you know, how to, how to manage your time better. I mean, I’m giving insights all the time, but until you wait, give an invitation, they may not know that that’s actually what I love doing the most, and that’s a big part of our business. So it’s how you frame things. Certainly I think it’s kind of the, the message, um, behind the method, but it’s also too cruel, I think, to, to not engage with people and sell them. If you know that what you can do can truly help them.  Brett Gilliland: Well, and this goes back to then self-belief, right? And then it goes back to your purpose. I mean, if this is the purpose, right? Future greater than your past, in that example, shame on me for not trying to go serve more.  Gabrielle Bosche: Totally. I know. And I wish more people had that mindset. I think a lot of times people think sales is like working at a used car lot or you know, tricking someone out of their money. Um, and certainly there’s bad actors out there, but, um, but if you really see your opportunity to, to sell as your opportunity to serve, it changes the whole mindset around everything.  Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. Well, I love it. Hopefully that, uh, I don’t know. I think I like that going to the Instagram and randomly picking a post and seeing… Gabrielle Bosche: I love it. Brett Gilliland: We might have to do that more often. Where do our listeners find more of Gabrielle Bosche?  Gabrielle Bosche: Yeah, well, they can hang out with us. Like I said, we’ve got lots of free content, um, on 7figurepurpose.com. It’s the number seven figure purpose.com. And so, um, they can hang out with us more there and join our free community and, uh, learn more about how to step into your purpose. Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, we’ll put all that in the show notes and uh, we’ll send people your direction. And it was awesome having you, Gabrielle, it was really a lot of fun.  Gabrielle Bosche: Absolutely. Thanks for hanging out man.  Brett Gilliland: You are like ready to rock. I got it.  Gabrielle Bosche: Well, I’m honored to, to have this conversation and get to meet your community. It’s amazing. You’ve got a, a really great thing going on here.  Brett Gilliland: Well, thanks you very much and thanks for being on the Circuit of Success. [/fusion_text][/fusion_builder_column][/fusion_builder_row][/fusion_builder_container]

Whitney Kenter, CEO and founder of Glowe Connective, discusses the failures and successes of her personal life and professional career. Her career consulting with businesses to prioritize human energy to overcome challenges within a company has given her insight into following a career path that brings you light or makes you “Glowe.” Whitney shares some of the risks she has taken that have helped her continue to thrive in her professional career and help her excel with her new business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6TPeNcQiSE&list=PLbvB0kVmlTP7mo99UtYan6rAaz5uNOzyN&index=1 Brett Gilliland: Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got Whitney Kenter in the office with me. Whitney, how you doing?  Whitney Kenter: I’m doing great… Brett Gilliland: Awesome… Whitney Kenter: …thanks for having me. Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s good to have you. It’s uh, it’s exciting. I got introduced to you from, uh, Kristen. Kristen said great things about you at a, uh, at a lunch the other day and I said, you know what? I gotta, I gotta meet her. And, uh, reached out to you on LinkedIn and not even a week later, here we are. So… Whitney Kenter: …that’s right.  Brett Gilliland: It’s been awesome. Um, well, you are the founder of Glowe Connective. And, uh, you’ve had an unbelievable career and been in the finance industry and now doing this thing with Glowe, and I can’t wait to dive into that. But if you can, Whitney, just maybe give us a little lay of the land on what’s made you the woman you are today.  Whitney Kenter: Oh my gosh, that seems like a very loaded question. , I’ll try to be brief. Um, I think when I think about my life, I feel like it’s been this very non-linear, but very synchronistic path. When I, you know, it’s easy to look back and say, oh, that was clearly the time to do this change or whatever. But from a career perspective, I feel like even though I’ve been in finance, accounting, wealth management, all of these very quantitative driven fields. My interest the entire time has always been on the humans, and their behaviors and how they make decisions and what they’re concerned about. And even in my very early career days, I’d be, as a tax professional at KPMG I’d be sitting with these CEOs and we’d be talking about, you know, after they do this big transaction, what are they gonna do? How’s this gonna impact their family? And I was in my twenties having these very deep conversations. You know, so somehow, gravitating back towards the things that, ironically in college, I really wanted to study psychology and marketing. And my dad was like, you will never get a job with those two degrees, so you have to get an accounting now. Brett Gilliland: Dad, I started a company with it.  Whitney Kenter: Right, exactly. And so it’s just so ironic because every, every step of my journey, I was gravitating right back to either psychology or brand and marketing, which is fascinating.  Brett Gilliland: Well, I think, I mean, I was joked that we’re part-time psychologists, even in the wealth management space, right. I, I was like, I got a box of Kleenex in there. Just because the conversations that happen, man, they get deep and they’re just, you know, it’s, it’s way more important the, the, the things in life they want to go do versus just like you said, the quantitative stuff. Right? Yeah. It’s, it’s there. So, um, what, what are some of the risks you took in life? Um, you know from, you know, obviously starting a company, leaving a great career, all those things, but what are some of the risks when you look back on your career, are you happy that you took?  Whitney Kenter: I think the first risk that I took was at KPMG when, um, you know, I was in auditing for two weeks and realized that that was not for me. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Whitney Kenter: And so going straight to my boss literally two weeks into it and saying, I really don’t think I’m in the right spot. That was a big risk, because you’re the new kid, you know, you’re part of a huge class and they’re weeding you out, and I took a big risk in saying, Hey, but I really think this is not for me. So they ended up putting me in this financial planning group, which was a division of the tax department, and then not even a year later after that, was introduced to the folks at headquarters that were kind of in charge of this whole group, and they were saying, we wanna expand it. We wanna have somebody come up and help us with the marketing and how do we expand this? And I raised my hand and they, they looked at me and laughed. They said, you’ve been here for two years, or not even two years? This is usually for seniors or managers or whatever. And I just kept pushing. I was like, but I really… Brett Gilliland: You asked the question, right?  Whitney Kenter: …yeah. And so I think those were two, very in close proximity to one another, big risks that I took.  Brett Gilliland: And did you get that?  Whitney Kenter: I, did. I got it.  Brett Gilliland: Oh, that’s amazing.  Whitney Kenter: And went to New York and lived there for a year and a half and had this amazing experience meeting all the heads of the departments across the country.  Brett Gilliland: Wow.  Whitney Kenter: And it was just, it was amazing. So… Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. Whitney Kenter: It was a huge risk. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And what do you think from there? What did you learn most about that, taking that risk? Being a person that’s, you know, quote unquote not ready for it. Yeah. Uh, what did you learn most from that?  Whitney Kenter: Um, mostly, and this is something that we talk a lot about now at Glowe, but I really felt strongly, I mean, it was like a whole body. Have to do this. I don’t just, maybe this sounds kind of cool, kind of thing. It was like, no, I need to go, I want to, you know, I want to get out of here and go experience this. I never lived anywhere outside of Kansas or St. Louis. And so I was like, okay, this is a big move for me and I’ve never lived on the East coast, let alone in New York. And, um, but it just, it just felt right and I didn’t let any of the extra noise or the, you know, even my own mind probably at the time, justifying this makes no sense financially. This makes no sense. You know, there’s probably a lot of reasons where I could have said, yeah, you’re right. That’s, I should keep on the safe path of continuing to, you know, move forward in my career in a linear way. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I, I think sometimes the risks are, uh, like you just said, the financial may not be the smartest thing. Right. Things we can walk away from, and I, it makes me think of when I started Visionary, my business partner, Tim Hammett and I, it’s, you know, we made this step, right. We were both doing very well in our careers. My wife was seven months pregnant, uh, eight months pregnant by the time we started. Um, you know, like with our fourth child, we just built a new home and she’s like, is this the right decision? And I’m like, I don’t know. She’s like, is this the best time? I’m like, no, it’s a terrible time. Right. But I think to your point is like you always knew in your core kind of what you wanted to go do. Right? And I think sometimes it’s just taking that leap, a calculated leap, right? Knowing what you’re getting into and planning and all the stuff that goes. But sometimes just doing it and kind of building it as you go. Would you agree with that?  Whitney Kenter: Oh yeah, absolutely. We talk about it all the time with people is that, you know, if, if something feels like a full body, yes.  If you just feel it, even if on paper it doesn’t make sense necessarily. Yeah. Or whatever. But if you just feel it, it’s usually the right answer. Cuz your body knows. Your heart, your gut know way more than your mind on what’s right for you, so. Brett Gilliland: I agree with that. And I think that’s, for me, that’s what I felt was this, it was right. Like it just, I mean, I guess if you put it on paper, people, like, you’re doing what? Right. Like, you’re just gonna go out and start your own RIA and do, it’s like, yeah. Yeah. But like, it was like burn the bridges. We’re never going back. It’s like exactly’s, this is what we’re doing. And I think, again, having the plan. So, um, let’s go and talk about what Glowe Connective is. This is a company you started a number of years ago and what, three, three years ago did you say? You just told me this. Whitney Kenter: Almost three years.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Three years ago almost. And so what are you doing exactly and how are you helping impact the world?  Whitney Kenter: And talk about a risk. Everyone thought I was crazy in 2020 going out. They’re like, what are you doing? We’re still at home and you’re start this new company.  Brett Gilliland: Great timing… Whitney Kenter: Kind of leaving at the height of, uh, of your career and what you built. So, um, no. So Glow is a, a company that we’re all about transformation, whether it’s personal or business. So we talk a lot about how there’s so many things that are happening in our world right now that are almost forcing the hand of people to rethink systems, to rethink how we do things, to rethink, um, mostly the human side of our businesses. And I just became really passionate about that. You know, businesses are going through a lot. Even pre covid, post covid, um, and nothing to do with covid. There’s a lot of changes that were happening, and so I wanted to do things differently from the standpoint of, yes, we need to focus on vision and strategy and processes, but it’s the people part that makes or breaks the business. Right? Yeah. And so, so many of the complaints, I guess, that business leaders were having was, you know, people’s motivation, people not wanting to work, um, which I don’t subscribe to. Right. Um, how they work when they work, all these different things and, but the people are the lifeblood of your company. Yeah. If you don’t have people, you know, you’re not gonna have a company for very long. And so, and I, I think it’s this return to, you can’t just force your way to results. We really need to take a step back. And so, you know, yes we are consultants and coaches, but we do it in a very vulnerable way. We get in there with them, we the, on the consulting side, I didn’t wanna be the kind of consultancy that, you know, we come in for the deep dive in the analysis and then we leave them with a deliverable that we hope they implement. And that’s not the kind of, that’s not where the transformation comes because, and I was just visiting with a CEO yesterday, I said, the difference is you have all these things that you wanna do. You already have a fully loaded executive team. Right? And so adding a huge organizational change management process to your load is big. And that’s too much for any one person. Cuz they already have their day jobs, so to speak. And so we wanna come in and support the, the system change that can last well after we’re gone. But it takes so much more attention and it takes someone kind of holding that. I mean, we don’t know more about their business than they do, but we’re really great at asking good questions and listening, and then we always talk about, kind of mirroring back to them what we’ve heard and say, is this right? Brett Gilliland: Yeah, yeah. Oh… Whitney Kenter: this might be a little different than what we heard in the, you know, in the brand book or you know, something like that. Because we’re not doing it for marketing purposes. We’re doing it for how do we tap into the real soul of the company and then make that shine as bright as possible, or Glowe. Brett Gilliland: And I assume that the, the handholding that’s there too, it’s not just like, Hey, here’s your plan and good luck. We’ll see you later. I mean, there’s that accountability, there’s the coaching, it’s all the stuff that goes with it that I know for me, I’ve worked with a business coach for years. Yeah. It’s the questions and, and I’ve coined this thing ADT is ask, don’t tell. Whitney Kenter: Yes. Right. So if you ask me a question and then I verbally say it, right. It’s, it’s, maybe it’s the gospel because I’ve said it. Right. Right. Versus if you’re telling me, I think assume that’s part of the strategy as well too, through those asking great questions.  Exactly. Well, and I think too, what we’ve found is, there’s a lot of things that don’t get said. You know, maybe there’s a plan already in place and you know, you might have something rattling around in your head. Like, no, I really feel like we need to do this other thing, but I don’t wanna change the course. Yeah. Or I don’t wanna say it. Or maybe someone in the organization has some really good feedback and thoughts about, you know, a disconnect that might be happening, but they don’t say it. You know, it’s the things that don’t get that really create those blocks on the true potential of the company. And then also I feel like this, you know, we’ve got titles in job descriptions versus actual roles in what happens in the roles. And so we wanna match people’s real innate gifts, superpowers, what they’re really, really good at versus what they can do. Because that’s what energizes them and that’s what creates that glow effect. If you’re doing, if you’re doing something more often than not that really does light you up and that you really enjoy, chances are you’re, you’re going to not be burnt out. And that is really important from a productivity standpoint. And also just the contribution to the company. If you’re lit up and doing what you do, it’s, there’s a contagion effect to that.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So do you find though, that it’s hard because, I mean, it’d be great right, if you just said, here’s an unlimited budget, I can go out and hire this person to do what they’re uniquely qualified to do. And I’ve got, you know, an extra 15 people running around, that would be awesome, right? But sometimes, so what, how do you help that small and define small however you want, but how do you help that small company get what they want with the people they want, uh, without, you know, being able to go add another million dollars in payroll or something like that, right? Whitney Kenter: Totally. Yeah. We love constraints . And financial constraints is always part of it… Brett Gilliland: It’s part of it.  Whitney Kenter: Cause it’d be nice if you could just, you know, like you said, have unlimited amounts of money to do whatever you want. Um, for us, every single thing comes back to real clarity. So if, if the real vision, like not the highly curated, wordsmith one, that maybe was done several years ago, but like the true essence, and that’s what we keep saying, is it’s the soul. Like what is it that you really want? What is it that’s really amazing and unique and why you started this company? And how do we tap back into that? And if we can get really clear on that vision and that ethos, then we can always, I feel like realign people, tasks and goals, and things like that. Because I think that sometimes it’s just re-energizing to what is, and also there’s a bit of aspiration in any vision and goal probably. But it has to be grounded in reality too. And so you can’t be saying, oh yeah, we wanna do this one thing when the rest of the organization is like, we’re not doing that one thing.  That’s not at all what we’re doing. And so we tend to, I mean, it’s kind of where we start is this radical clarity and getting, getting to that root of the, of the company. Because then a lot of answers become clear. And so by the time we get to what we call a mirror deck, where it’s basically, you know, we’re parroting back to you, Hey, is this your real vision? Is this your real ethos? And you say Yes. Well, then it becomes a decision making framework. And that decision making framework is something that you can explain to your entire senior leadership team, your management team, and everyone in the company, and their roles fit in pretty well. So it’s almost like a puzzle. At that point because, and we can usually find, um, Resources within the company that are not being tapped into. I mean, that’s really fun when you get people to get re-energized…. Brett Gilliland: The aha moment. Whitney Kenter: …about it. Yeah. And they’re like, oh, well what I really love to do is this. And we say, well, we need that over here, so how do we figure out doing it? And I think there’s so much being talked about about flattening organizational structures and things like that. And so our process is very much in alignment with that because it’s kind of like taking out the fluff. And let’s just get to what do we really need in order to accomplish this goal? That’s what a business is.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, that’s right. There’s a lot of fluff out there. Whitney Kenter: How they distill it down into the basics and that’s, I mean, that’s super energizing for us.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Would you say too, like, and I’ll kinda be transparent here, like my, the bread of old used to say, it’s always number driven. I want to, you know, have this many more advisors or this many more assets, or blah, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. Right? And you’ve got it. But I don’t know if it’s, as you get older, you start to do this, or if it’s just kind of this, that, that’s always what made me tick. But it’s more of mission focus, right? Like you see these stickers here. This is a future greater than your past. So that’s our, that’s our firm’s mission. Helping you achieve a future greater than your past, your past doesn’t necessarily mean it was bad. But we want a better future. And I think for me, it’s, it’s more I get more energy from that, uh, of working in that mission than I do. Oh, I wanna go get x more advisors added on. Or, and, and people will ask me in, in recruiting meetings, how many more advisors you wanna have? I’m like, This may turn you off, but I, I don’t know. Right. I don’t have this number of how many people we need to have. Yeah. But I’ve got a mission that we want to go out and create and build and, and work on. Right. So when you hear me kind of walk through that, what comes to mind? Numbers versus mission. Whitney Kenter: I think we advocate for the mission first because your purpose is the big thing. And so defining what that is or just getting clarity with a few bullet points on what that is like what will succes look like if we achieve it. I mean, we get to the numbers, but the numbers are kind of a sidebar. You know, um, and they’re important obviously, because you’ve gotta build whatever you wanna build and you’ve gotta have the numbers. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Gotta grow.  Whitney Kenter: Makes sense. But I love this and I, I do think more people are, Recentering around purpose, at least the leaders who wanna work with us, right? Because I mean, if they want outside the box thinking and they wanna do things differently than they’re in conversations with Glowe. But if they wanna do it the old way and just focus on the numbers and growing for growth’s sake, chances are we’re not gonna be appealing to them. Brett Gilliland: Yep.  Whitney Kenter: And so I think this reversion to kind of the core or the, the real foundation is really important. And the numbers take care of themselves, I mean, I’m sure you see that in your… Brett Gilliland: Absolutely. Whitney Kenter: …your business. They, they just kind of magically do when you focus on the thing that really matters. And you make decisions in alignment with that. So an an unaligned decision would be, we’ve gotta hit adding 20 advisors this year. It’s like, but why? Right. That would be my first question. Why? That’s a tell what question that number is all about.  Brett Gilliland: Sorry to interrupt, but we talk about mission and vision align too, right? Because, and values align.  If we don’t connect on our values, it’s gonna be really hard for us to work together. And to your point, I think the more we do those three things, then it, it is, you said contagious, I think is the word you used earlier. I always say it’s like a magnet, right? Like think about your little kids’ trains. They, they either went together or they repel each other, right? And I think that’s what we can do as leaders is repel people away. And sometimes if they’re in your culture, that may be a good thing to repel them away, right? And that’s okay.  Whitney Kenter: And I, and I think, you know, this kind of goes with the Glowe philosophy that, you know, if people are truly lit up with your purpose of your company, they’re gonna be happier, they’re gonna be more productive, they’re gonna be more, and that’s, that’s really what it’s about. You know? I mean, it’s about that before the money, and you’re reading all of these studies now with all of, you know, our terrible mental health crisis and the levels of burnout and the, you know, lack of connectivity to joy and fulfillment and all those things. Well, we as business leaders have an obligation, I think. Because, you know, I do, I believe people do wanna work, but I think they wanna be connected. I think they wanna feel like their purpose aligns with whatever it is that they’re doing. And it doesn’t matter what role they’re filling, but they wanna feel connected to that purpose and mission. And I think those companies are gonna be more successful overall. Brett Gilliland: I, I think you got into my journal here and stole my, stole my goals here. Because if you look, um, it says right here, what’s that? connected goals for 2023, right? Yeah. And so I a thousand percent agree with you that, um, people need connection, right? And I want that connected goals for 2023 to happen. So that’s kind of my word of the year. So when you said that, I was like, oh, I think she cheated and stole my, my sheet here. Um, but I think attitude. Um, but I, I, I would say, so then my question becomes, uh, what you guys are doing at Glowe is around the human being. Right? And there’s so much stuff going on right now out there about the metaverse. Yeah. And chatGPT and you know, AI and virtual reality, all this stuff, right? Yeah. So when you hear those things in one box, you hear your human connection in another, what comes together and how do those things meet or collide? One of the two, right? Right.  Whitney Kenter: Well, it’s kind of interesting because it, in just, specifically, with chatGPT, we’ve talked a lot about this because, um, so much of what we do is produce content and thought provoking pieces and things like that. And I’ve had a number of people say, you know what, you can do that a lot cheaper and just plug it into chatGPT. And have it spit something out. And I said, yeah. So I mean, we’ve experimented with that to see what they come up with. And it is a remarkable thing, but I think that we still have to figure out then what do the humans need to be doing? In order, I mean, from a business perspective, in pursuit of whatever business goals and what can we leverage, but it’s, we’ve kind of been doing this already. How do we leverage technology to do jobs. I mean, you know, this has been going on for a long time as we’ve evolved, um, through multiple cycles of our economy, you know, so I think this is just the next level of figuring out how does this impact our business? It is gonna cause some people to need to revisit, I think, their purpose. Because some of it might be at risk, right? Some of what they do might be at risk to being taken over by a machine. But, that was the case in the early days of the industrial. I mean, so yeah, this is not, that’s true. This is not new. It’s just different.  Brett Gilliland: It seems disingenuous though, right? Like if I read an article from Glowe and I’m like, okay, this is awesome, and Whitney put her name on it, like, I don’t wanna know really behind the scenes, you just typed in a question. Whitney Kenter: Totally.  Brett Gilliland: And they put out a 500, you know, word article that you quote unquote created. Right? Yeah, I think it’s true. That’s the thing I struggle with with it.  Whitney Kenter: Yeah. I still think people will connect with things, you’re still gonna have to connect with the real . You can tell the difference. I can tell the difference between something that’s been written by chatGPT and what I’ve written. Not just because I’ve written it, but… Brett Gilliland: Right. Whitney Kenter: I mean, there’s a soul, there’s a… Brett Gilliland: yeah, there’s a human connection.  Whitney Kenter: And so, you know, I think you know the, there’s ways to use it. Probably. We haven’t figured out the right balance for that, but I know it’s top of mind for a lot of leaders on how do we do this? And I think for a lot of people, they feel like their jobs are at risk because some of the things that they used to do, yeah. You know, might be shortened even if it’s not completely, you know, taken over by chatGPT or AI. But there’s gonna, it’s just gonna be a different role. I think,. Brett Gilliland: I, I joked at a restaurant one time that you, you would go in and we would order this food and this little kiosk thing. Yeah. And this person was there and I, you know, they had a good personality. You could tell. I said, but you realize you’re training me to that thing to take over your job, right? Yeah. I mean, there’s all these things, so you’re right. There are things that are a lot at risk. So yeah, we could, we could have a whole nother podcast on that. Whitney Kenter: Oh my God.  Brett Gilliland: But what I’d like to turn the page to is, is sometimes you, we talk, well, not sometimes a lot, we always talk about our successes, right? Yep. And, and to the extent to what you want to share is what, what failures, I think we’ve all had failures. What failures have you had? And they don’t have to be extreme, but what failures have you had that you learned a lot from that you could share now of what some of those biggest learnings were and some of those takeaways. Whitney Kenter: Um, I think several of my failures, my biggest failures had to do with, um, I would say picking the wrong people and also not following the signs. Hmm. Like, and just trying to overcompensate or trying to um… Brett Gilliland: Deny. Whitney Kenter: Just deny what was really going on in service of what I really wanted to be going on. So I think that’s where kind of my, my personal transformation and my professional transformation paths, you know, finally collided was, you know, I had, I had made. Um, some terrible, not terrible. Some interesting decisions in my personal life and my professional life that I knew that were not in service of me necessarily, but I chose to see them through anyway. Yep. And it was getting out of those, that is where I really learned like, wow, those were pretty big mistakes. But the good thing is, is it’s actually what has made me who I am today, but also huge learnings from a Glowe perspective. Because I can identify, I can identify when people are not aligned really quickly, because I was that person for so long. And on the outside looking in, you know, or you look at my career on LinkedIn, or you look at all these things, you’re like, whoa. You know? Right. All these achievements, all these things and inside I was a shell of myself. I was not at all, you know, healthy as I am today, and was totally misaligned. And so it took getting out of, um, you know, having a personal divorce and a professional divorce and going through both of those processes, which, you know, were not fun from a process perspective in the legal system.  And they’re also not fun, you know, to understand what, how you contributed to, you know, staying too long and all the different things. Yeah. And so there’s just a massive amount of healing that had to go on in both sides. And I, I did my personal transformation that led to the per the professional trans. So they, they but… Brett Gilliland: It’s kinda the catalyst. Yeah. Whitney Kenter: It was definitely like, whoa, I had no idea that I was sacrificing so much of myself and that I had low self-worth. And you know, I tell people that and they’re like, what are you talking about? You look at all the things that you’ve done and I said, yeah but , it was coming all from a place of extremely low self-work. And so I was, I mean, talk about, you know, we talk about energy and, um, light and glowing, you know, my light had dimmed so much, but yet from the out, from the outside looking in, you would say, but you were super successful. Like, but at what cost? Yeah. Because I was, I just was not happy and I, and so it’s just so many things like that, that even though, yes, failures, I just feel, I love the phrase fail forward because I do feel like that really is my story. I mean, I failed forward so many times, and even parenting. You know, talk about failures. Oh my gosh. You know, I, I was a single mom when my kids were six, five, and three trying to figure out who I was, let alone my relationship with my kids and how to raise them. And so, you know, lots of failures, for sure. Brett Gilliland: Well I appreciate you sharing that and it definitely takes a lot of courage, right, to do that and to trust your gut. And, and uh, cuz we don’t wanna see those signs sometimes.  Whitney Kenter: Right? Exactly. And I’ve always told people, I’m like, you know, when people will say, Man, this decision or that decision seems like a major decision. Let’s take divorce for an example cuz that’s, it’s a major life decision. Yeah. And very, and it, it is courageous, but you have to make the decision about a million times because there’s so many times when you think well be so much easier if I waited until the kids were older, it’d be so much easier if I, I can handle this. So maybe I’ll just stay in. I mean and so even though it makes so much sense, like in my case it made great sense because I was in a terribly abusive marriage and like it just made all the sense in the world. But yet there was all these moments, you know, when I was by myself and the kids were in bed and I was like, what am I doing? Yeah. I don’t know how to do this alone, you know? And so you have to keep making that courageous decision moment to moment to moment. And it’s like a million yes’ over and over again that leads to that ultimate big decision to happen. So I don’t know.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, that’s interesting. It’s a good way to look at it. It makes me think too of the fears. I was asked this question of, I’d assume there was a lot of fears that were going through your mind and, and both those personal and professional patterns as you said. And, and so how many of the fears you put in your mind actually blew up to the magnitude you put ’em in your mind to be? Whitney Kenter: That is fascinating, um, question because. I have looked back on that and when I let the fear rule, it ended so much worse than if I just would’ve persevered on the path that I was on.  Brett Gilliland: So meaning, so, so, so peel that on your layer back meaning, so the fear was there. Whitney Kenter: Yes. The fear was there and I gave into the fear. Brett Gilliland: Okay.  Whitney Kenter: And I just, I was like, okay, yeah, I can’t do this. You’re right. Like I, I’m gonna have to, I’m gonna have to make another choice. And, and the, the, it’s, our brains are trying to actually keep us safe. And the brain’s interpretation of what is safe is like what, you know, what we know is more safe than the unknown. And so, and that’s where it took a lot of, I don’t know, a lot of different healing modalities and things to learn about how Okay. Fear is, is a data point. It’s, it’s my brain trying to protect me. But I need to kind of come back to myself and reali and, and assess like, do I really, am I gonna give into this? Or am I gonna just kind of move forward anyway? And so many moments where if I would’ve not let fear reign I would be in a different place.  Brett Gilliland: But do you think that fear reign and then it made you adjust and go a different route that maybe got you into a better spot or not?  Whitney Kenter: Um, I think I just learned, I think it was more what I’ve said and, and I’m writing this book too about the, about transformation and my own journey on this too, but I talk about how, how building a different relationship with fear is really what re what the result was. Because I had to go through all of these very fearful moments and learn from those so that I could figure out what is my relationship. And so now it’s almost kind of this, okay, when if fear comes up, it’s like, what? What do I need to be paying attention to? Brett Gilliland: What’s this telling me? Right.  Whitney Kenter: What am I missing? Yeah. What, what data can I learn from this so that I can then kind of come back to center and make a decision that’s not fear-based? Like use the fear as a data point and then move forward kind of from a place of calm. You know?  Brett Gilliland: So I’ve heard you say the words, calm and energy, and come back to center, which I assume means that we probably practice either yoga or meditation or something like that. So, uh, I’m very transparent on here that, that, that, uh, meditation changed my life from a standpoint of dealing with, uh, anxiety as a kid, as an adult, as a professional, and having to, you know, go speak on a stage somewhere. And I would get sick in the bathroom. You know, at the Four Seasons in St. Louis before you’d go on stage, whatever, right. And, but now I’ve had to take, to your point earlier, fear, um, I’ve had to take my anxiety and make it a friend. Yes. I have conversations with my anxiety. You know, a fair amount. So yeah. When you hear me say, share my vulnerabilities there, what comes to mind for you and, and what are the, the quote unquote tools that you have in your toolbox to help you through either fear or anxiety?  Whitney Kenter: Well, first of all, I love that and I love that you’re so transparent with your audience about that, because I do think there’s a lot. of learning to be had and, and using some of these practices. Whatever it is. Breath work, meditation, yoga. Um, part of my, the, one of the major parts of my journey, uh, to back to myself really was starting yoga and I started for the pure workout part of it. I didn’t know anything about it, I didn’t know what downward dog was. Like, I knew nothing. And I, I went because I was really drawn to the teacher. And I was drawn to the message and I was drawn to when they would be educating you on, you know, what happens on your mat and how that mirrors what goes on off the mat in your life and recognizing different patterns about yourself. And it was this completely, um, I don’t know, journey of self-awareness of going, oh my gosh, I do do that. I do leave Shavasana because I think I don’t have two minutes to let, to sit there. Or, you know, and kind of the same with meditation. You think, you know, early on as I was starting meditation, I was like, I can’t stop my brain. There’s no way I got too many things… Brett Gilliland: That’s tough. Whitney Kenter: And it’s hard. That’s, I guess, why they call it a practice, right? Because it, you know, you, you aren’t an expert at it. At least I wasn’t. Until many, many years doing it, and I’m still not an expert, but there’s so much to learn from that. And I think that, you know, we’ve been taught certain things from an academic or society or whatever, but nowhere in there, you know, have they said, learn about yourself, recognize your own patterns, recognize how you react or respond to things. And so there’s so much richness in learning about ourselves and then therefore how we interact with others , which, um, I think we could all learn from. So I love talking to other people that it doesn’t seem like that woowoo stuff, right? That, you know, people in California or, you know, other places talk about. Um, because I just think that it’s this incredible opportunity for us to learn about ourselves.  And, and especially if we can get to the place to realize that we are all connected, all of our actions impact each other. And I think that’s such a powerful force. , um, that we could be tapping into, especially right now, I think it would bring everybody a lot more joy and hopefully reduce some conflicts that exist out there. Brett Gilliland: Yes. I, I agree. And it’s funny, I, I share that usually at the end of my talk, my anxiety journey. And it’s funny cuz you know, when you’re up there on stage or you’re talking, people are like, to your point earlier, like what you were what? Yeah. Like you see your resume. Well, it’s funny because then usually after every time you speak there’s, you know, 3, 5, 10 people come to me. He is like, oh my god, of all the stuff you shared, thank you for sharing that. You know? And, and, I think we do have to be vulnerable and transparent and share those things out there, but it’s, for me, the breathing and the meditation part helped me. Like even if I’m in a big meeting or I’m something and I’m getting a little anxious or just because you can’t really explain why it comes in, it just does. As how you can breathe yourself through that. So for people that are listening, there’s a great, um, uh, new, uh, documentary on Netflix. I dunno if you’ve seen it or not, but it’s called. Well, it’s by Headspace. You’ve heard the app? Oh yeah. Headspace. So that’s where I actually started my journey with meditation was through Headspace. And now Andy Andy Puddicombe is on a documentary called Meditation or How to Learn Meditation, something like that. You’ll find it on there. It’s phenomenal for people are listening. Go check it out. So, um, if I follow you around Whitney, and I said, okay, every day I’m gonna see some things that happen. What are, what are the no miss items that I’m seeing consistently show up in your life?  Whitney Kenter: Um, for sure getting up and working out. Um… Brett Gilliland: What time do you get up?  Whitney Kenter: Around 5:15.  Brett Gilliland: Okay. Whitney Kenter: It’s been kind of a habit for a while now, and I just am so much more clear if I, whether it’s a run or yoga, whatever, doesn’t matter. I just, I notice a material difference if I don’t.  Brett Gilliland: It keeps your body moving. Whitney Kenter: Yeah. And even if it’s 30 minutes, if that’s all I have that day or something like that.  Brett Gilliland: And if I can interrupt, you said material difference. So I mean that, that’s a big word, right? Yes. Like you’re, you’re, you see it big time in your life. Whitney Kenter: Yes. Yeah. And now it’s so interesting because I used to have to cram in the workout in order to do all the things in the morning. And I’ve given myself so much more grace because my most creative time of day is in the morning. And so I can’t. I can’t not go on a run and get some huge idea or make some connection or solve something that has been rattling. And I don’t even do it intentionally, but running is very meditative for me. So that action while I’m, you know, just stepping on the pavement, it actually creates a meditative environment for me. Um, and so I get a lot of, I get a lot of things for our content or our clients or whatever when I run. And so it’s almost this, if I tell myself, oh, it’s too cold out, I’m not gonna go on my run today.  Brett Gilliland: Easy to do. Whitney Kenter: I know. Oh, it’s so easy, . Um, I automatically know my answer needs to be, I’m going to feel so much better if I just do that. And again, even if I only have a short amount of time. So that’s something I don’t sacrifice. And even, even when I, um, was a new single mom, I had this Sunday morning yoga practice that I never missed. Even if I had my kids, even if, whatever was going on. I had to make this practice work because it was both the teacher and the community. That was kind of my church, so to speak. It was, and so, um, so there’s been different, I guess, examples of that over time than, you know, some kind of either yoga or running that I just don’t miss. But for sure, that’s the one thing that I… Brett Gilliland: What else? Is there anything else that comes to mind? Whitney Kenter: Um, I think now I am doing a better job of not starting my days until after nine, like giving myself that easier morning, so that I can get either, I typically journal every day. Um, that’s usually just some kind of release.  Brett Gilliland: You probably agree considering you can see three journals sitting around my desk, right?  Whitney Kenter: Yeah, exactly. I have different ones for different things. Brett Gilliland: I have to do a shameless plug. This, I just created this, this is, uh, I just is on Amazon. This is like 20 years of my life coming together into, uh, one journal that now can be… Whitney Kenter: Oh amazing.  Brett Gilliland: …on Amazon. So I’m pretty pumped about that. So I’m not an author like you’re writing a book, but I’m, at least I’m a, I’m a ‘jauthor’, a journal author, or something. So yeah… Whitney Kenter: Journaling is super powerful.  Brett Gilliland: So what do you do during your journaling? How do you do it?  Whitney Kenter: Um, I usually just start with writing whatever is in my head because I wake up and I, I, I think I usually have something on my mind from a dream or , whatever. And so it’s nice to just kind of get it out. Um, and so I’ll just kind of, I don’t have a purpose to my journaling. Unless there’s something… Brett Gilliland: Just writing sentences in paragraph form kind of. Whitney Kenter: Sometimes I’ll draw something or I’m a very visual person. I like to draw things and so, um, uh, and sometimes, I mean, it’s kind of fascinating. I have stacks of journals too from over the years, and it is interesting to kind of randomly flip back through. And how many common themes, especially around.. Brett Gilliland: Still there. Whitney Kenter: Are still there! And sometimes it’s nice to be able to tap back into that and say, oh, this is not a new idea. You had this thought in 2018.  Brett Gilliland: I love it. I love it. So how do you, now, are you, are you good or not good at staying in the moment, would you say? Kinda enjoying that journey and staying in the moment?  Whitney Kenter: I think it’s, um, I think I’m super aware of presence. I, I try to, I think especially now, I’ve got one in college and two on the brink of college. I feel like that’s another reminder.  Brett Gilliland: It is, isn’t it? Yeah. Whitney Kenter: Presence, you know? And so I think, I think I try to be mindful. I don’t, I’m definitely not perfect with it at all, but what is perfect. And so, um, but I, I try to be really mindful, like if with, if I’m with a client, I’m with them. I’m not doing anything else. And because usually, you know, we’re there to hold that space and, and provide that safe space for us to be vulnerable and, you know, solve things differently. And so if I’m distracted by my phone, then I’m not really doing what we preach. So, and also trying to help model that for these leaders who are like, oh, I’ve got this device and this iPad and this thing open. It’s like, no.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, let’s shut her down.  Whitney Kenter: We need to shut it all down.  Brett Gilliland: A piece of paper and an ink pen.  Whitney Kenter: Right? Exactly. Old school.  Brett Gilliland: Is there anything that you do in your day? Uh, assume there is. It’s why I’m asking the question, but there’s just no recollection of time. Like you, you have no idea. Cause some people are like, Is it noon yet so I can go to lunch? Is it five o’clock yet, so I can go home? I, I assume you’re like me, like that doesn’t really happen. You can just wake up like, oh wow, it’s that certain time. What is it that you’re doing where you have no idea what’s, what time even is? Whitney Kenter: Um, two things probably. One would be if I get some kind of ping or spark of inspiration and I just start writing about it. I don’t know if I’m writing for five minutes 30 minutes. It just kind of all just starts going, and then I look up and whatever time has passed, but it just feels like I go into some kind of vortex and . It’s just like I’m so focused, hyper-focused. Um, that, and I would say when I’m in, I guess I’ll loosely call this creation mode. Um, if I’m trying to solve something and I’m just kind of really deep in thought and I turn everything off and I kind of probably just look like I’m sitting and staring at a wall, but my mind… Brett Gilliland: Which is important to do by the way. Whitney Kenter: …is racing. Yeah. And so, and I did that yesterday actually. And it was something that I hadn’t quite figured out yet, and it was really bothering me. And I knew that it was something that I needed to get solved this week. And so, um, some space opened up on my calendar serendipitously, and I was alone in my office and I thought, all right, well, I don’t really know, and I have a huge whiteboard paint on my one wall in my office. And so I just sat there and it was, it was blank. And I sat there and I just thought, okay, I’m gonna grab a marker when it’s time, but I’m gonna wait and see what comes up and it was great. And I think about an hour and a half went by and it felt like nothing.  Brett Gilliland: It’s amazing.  Whitney Kenter: So yeah. Brett Gilliland: You can see my dry erase boards are my windows here.  Whitney Kenter: I love that. I love that.  Brett Gilliland: I don’t have much wall space, but um, but it’s funny you say that because I’m a big, big believer in telling people and, and trying to coach people to do this, but most don’t because they’re quote unquote busy. Right. And , I call it strategic think time. And so you see this black journal, there’s all those over there that are full. And so. Every Wednesday for an hour and a half, I have on my calendar. It’s just on repeat. And it’s been for probably, gosh, 15 years, and it’s the best hour and a half time. And most people, and I’ve done this before, is you will, you’ll schedule over it. Right? Right. Schedule over. But I think that time is, is critically important for us as leaders and as a parent, as a, as a spouse, whatever. Uh, to spend time thinking. And so, um, just wanna throw that out there. But, one of the final questions I have for you, I, I, I like this cuz they usually learn some fun things about people, but is if I stole your cell phone, besides, like if it’s email or Instagram or LinkedIn, whatever, is there anything on your phone that you would be like, oh my gosh, I hope he doesn’t delete that because I really, really use this to impact your life, impact others’ lives or just something you love to do? Whitney Kenter: Probably my notes app. Um, that’s where. I keep joking that my run times get slower and slower because I’m so often stopping to write something really fast. Or I get an idea about something and I have, I don’t even know how many notes at this point where it’s not even a fully baked, cohesive, piece or anything, but it’s, it’s the small reminder something and, and I’ve tried, oh, I’ll remember later. I’ll remember when I get home and I never do. Yeah. And so now I just stop in my track. So if I lost my notes app, that would be… Brett Gilliland: Would not be good. Whitney Kenter: …be devastating. I mean, it would just be, I mean, I would recreate it, I’m sure, but it would just be Wow. Cuz sometimes if I’m flipping back through. To, you know, we’ve got a weekly new newsletter that I put out every week. Sometimes I’m looking back on some of those little sparks of inspiration to say, oh, is that something that I wanna do? So, yeah, that would probably end my calendar. That’s probably because everything I I… Brett Gilliland: You run your life by your calendar. Yeah.  Whitney Kenter: Yes. I basically take all that extra stuff outta my brain so I don’t have to remember it, and I just put it all on my calendar, so that one would be really tough to recreate.  Brett Gilliland: Yes, yes. Well, Whitney, it’s been awesome having you on the Circuit of success. Where can our listeners find more of Glowe and find more and follow you?  Whitney Kenter: Yeah, so we’re on LinkedIn Glowe Connective. We’re, uh, our website is www dot glow with an e, g l o w e and it’s connective.com. (gloweconnective.com) Um, and I would love to connect with your listeners on LinkedIn personally as well. And we’re on Instagram too. LinkedIn primarily.  Brett Gilliland: Well, obviously you answer your own stuff cuz you’re sitting here today. Like, you know, less than a week since we sent the message, so it’s been awesome. But it’s been so great having you and thanks for sharing your story and uh, it’s very, very inspiring. So thanks for all you’re doing.  Whitney Kenter: Awesome. Thank you. [/fusion_text][/fusion_builder_column][/fusion_builder_row][/fusion_builder_container]

Chris Johnson, the founder of On Target Living, shares his experiences with his clients and finding success with rest. Chris discusses the topics from his most recent book. Rest. Eat. Move: You Have the Power to Feel your Best. He elaborates on the connection between good sleep, healthy eating, and stress management to build a foundation for long-term wellness and success.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1JkB0U4sYY   Brett Gilliland: I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’ve got the privilege of interviewing, again, for the second time, Chris Johnson. What’s up Chris? How you doing?  Chris Johnson: Hey, Brett. How are you? Happy to be back. I can’t believe it’s been since, I think you said April, 2018.  Brett Gilliland: April of 2018 is when we chatted last. It’s uh, it’s crazy. I said time flies when we’re having fun and, uh, yeah, we’re, we’re doing that.  Chris Johnson: It’s crazieness.  Brett Gilliland: Uh, you are also probably the only person I know that, uh, on my podcast, uh, at least I’ve had your son, Matt. I’ve had your daughter Kristen, on the show. So we’ve had all three of you on and, and, uh, it’s been awesome. I just love that Matt and I have stayed connected and I still gotta get Matt out on the golf course because I’ve, I’ve see he’s a pretty good golfer, so we’re gonna see who wins some cash from each other. Are you putting your money on? You know, is he still playing ?  Chris Johnson: Yeah, I play, but. You know, I’m like an A handicap and he’s, you know, he’s good. He’s really good.  Brett Gilliland: Okay.  Chris Johnson: So yeah, it’s amazing. He doesn’t play that much anymore, but man, he’s still good. Well, kids have a way of doing that, don’t they? Yeah. So I don’t, I don’t really, I used to try to blame, you know, straight up and I always would lose, but as just my eagle getting in the way and then now I still stake take strokes and I still lose, so it doesn’t matter. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, those stroke things are fun. But they’re frustrating too, aren’t they?  Chris Johnson: Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: So you are the, uh, founder and CEO of On-Target Living. Um, author of, of numerous books. Uh, you’ve got a new book out called Rest. Eat. Move. Uh, you have the power to feel your best, so we’ll talk about that. Uh, I read this book right here in 2018. Capacity. Uh, you and your son Chris, wrote that, uh, I’m sorry, you and your son Matt wrote that. And um, it’s just an amazing book. Amazing book. I love it. So we’ll, we’ll dive into your stuff, uh, as well, but if you could, for those that didn’t hear us back in 2018, Chris, just maybe give us a little lay of the land on, on who you are, what’s, what’s made you the man you are today. Chris Johnson: Well, Brett, uh, without getting into the weeds too much, uh, you know, I’m, I turned 66 this year. I’ve been doing this a long time over 35 years, but I was a business economic major at Western Michigan. So I’m here at our headquarters here in East Lansing, Michigan. And, um, when I got outta school, I was, there wasn’t really a lot of jobs, but I had kinda thought about what do I really wanna do? I was always interested in exercise and working out and eating right. I got into bodybuilding in the early eighties and then I decided to go back to grad school and so I went to back to grad school at Michigan State and exercise physiology. And when I got outta grad school, I worked at in a hospital doing stress testing, and I worked for a private practice doctor for a couple years. But really the thing all started to change when I went to work at the Michigan Athletic Club as a director of Fitness and personal. and I did that for about 17 years and that’s when I started speaking and I wrote a, a couple books and then I decided to take my, um, my deal on the road, uh, in 2007. And I’ve been full-time speaking and, and since then. And then as you mentioned, my daughter and my son, my son Matt, runs our business and we have a nice team here. And we have a beautiful headquarters in East Lansing. So what we try to do is help organizations, uh, be their best and feel their best. So yeah, that’s where we’re at today. And um, we also have a very, uh, vibrant e-commerce business. We sell wheatgrass and cod liver oil and things like that. So yeah, content, uh, delivery, training, and then our e-commerce. So that’s our business.  Brett Gilliland: And, and would you say that the, the bulk of what you guys are doing, like you said, really is, is around those three things, right? Rest, uh, eat, move, uh, and, and, and in what order, right? Because I think all three of them are equally as important. Uh, maybe you would, I would assume you would agree with that, but we’ll dive into that. But let, let’s talk about, if we can, for a while, there’s a lot of business owners and people in sales that listen to this podcast. That, what, what was it like to grind for you? So it, you know, you, you made it sound easy, which you guys have done an amazing, you got amazing business. But what, what were you doing during the early days when you didn’t have, uh, uh, a well oiled machine running a business? What was it like? What, what were the day-to-day like for you? You were raising a family, uh, young kids and traveling and doing all those things. What was it like?  Chris Johnson: Well, like many of your, uh, listener viewers that Yeah, it’s a grind. When I got outta grad school, in fact, when I entered grad school, my wife came back to me and said, Hey, you know, honey, we’re pregnant. And I go, oh, okay. Um, and then a couple months later, we found out we’re having twins. So I’m working full-time driving a, a Frito-Lay truck delivering Doritos , and she’s working full-time in a law firm. And we’re raising in two, you know, two twins. And then, uh, I’m in grad school full-time. So was it a grind? Absolutely. And so you look back and you’re like, how in the heck did we do it? And then, uh, I think that work ethic, again, I’m, I’m old school, but when I worked in the Michigan Athletic Club, you know, I was working 60 hours a week every week, and we had one of the largest personal trainer programs in the world. And um, and slowly over time, it was that bedrock of training that I realized, okay, how do I take this and scale it? And so when I started speaking full-time, my wife, I can’t remember coming back to her. And I remember, uh, Merrill Lynch reached out to me and wanted me to do this training for their advisors. And, um, they came back and said, we want you to do X, Y, Z. And I’m like, well, I have a full-time job. I can’t do that. And then, I thought to myself, I’m like, Hey, time’s, time’s to go. So anyway, I started on Ontario living in 2006 and I went full-time speaking in 2007. It was just me and, um, Don Miller, and she scheduled my events and, and then, then Matt came on 12 years ago. And, but yeah, it’s, uh, it is like any business, you know, people say, well, I wanna do what you do, and I, well, do you really wanna speak for free for five years?  Brett Gilliland: Right. Chris Johnson: I’m like, what are you talking about? I said, well, you know, it just doesn’t happen. So I think sometimes people, you know, nobody’s a black belt, you know, to start with everybody’s a white belt. Yeah. And so I always tell people, you know, you do the Jim Collins thing, you gotta have the, kinda like your Circle of Success podcast. You have to have passion and. And you gotta feel like you can make a living at it. And last but not least, you need to be, feel like you can be really good at it. So I think that’s the circle we always talk about. But as you mentioned, it doesn’t happen overnight. And um, I probably wouldn’t do it any other way cuz again, the, the struggles we all face, whether it’s our health or whatever, but some of the good, best stuff is through the struggles.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, for sure. And, and so do you have a, a defining moment? I was in a meeting earlier today and we’re talking about uh, we’re gonna have an event coming up in March on Inter International Women’s Day, um, on March 8th. And I was talking to three of the ladies in our firm and I said, let’s talk about a defining moment. Like I had a defining moment in my life in 2003. So I started the business in 2001, 2002. I was like the advisor of the year in, in our, in our, you know, in our area here in St. Louis, uh, for the company I was at. And then 2003. I, I should have been fired. I mean, I didn’t do any production. I just, you know, I let this talent think that’s just gonna carry you. And it was a defining moment for me, right to, to where I learned you have to work hard. You can’t just show up and expect things to happen. You gotta work your ass off to become successful. And even though it was the toughest year of my life, it, in looking back now, 22 years later, it was the best year of my. Right. So do you have a moment like that for you on the, on the way up on the journey that you said, man, that looking back, that was a defining moment? Chris Johnson: Yeah, I think there, there is many defining moments, but one that I can really think about. Um, I had an opportunity to get on the biggest stages in the world. With Merrill Lynch, uh, way back in 2007, it was just before the market kind of imploded. Um, but I was doing this event for Merrill Lynch managers, about 3,500 people in the audience, and I didn’t get a rehearsal. And so before I was gonna get up on stage. One thing got pushed back, one thing got pushed back, and the next thing you know, when I get up there, this is not ready to roll in front of 3,500 people. And so the woman that hired me, I didn’t know she was in the audience, and I talked to her about a couple days later and she said, Hey, how’d the event go? And I go, well, it’s really tough to start with. And she says, um, she asked me a question, “Are you a professional speaker?” And I said, “Yeah.”. And she said, “Well, you need to act like one.” And I said, “What do you mean?” She said, “I was in your audience and you weren’t ready to go. You didn’t even know where your clicker was. You didn’t this…” And I got, I’m now making excuses that, you know, the reason I didn’t know that is because they didn’t gimme a rehearsal. And she said, well, any professional speaker would’ve never stepped on up on stage in front of 3,500 people without a rehearsal. And she said, you know, I have you scheduled for some of these largest events that we do. I don’t think you’re ready to go. And I thought to myself, I go, I am ready to go, and you’re right, I did drop the ball. I need to do this. She goes, you’re tired, your slides are tired. Your jokes aren’t funny. I go, so I really got hit between the teeth. But she was exactly right. She, she said, you know, later, I, I saw potential in you. I knew you were relatively raw in this world, but our advisors were so attracted to your message and your energy that I wanted to get you out there. But I had to see if you were willing to make some of these changes. And I did and that, that really was a defining moment cuz then I came up and did their series of events and, you know, the, the energy took off and then next thing you know, I’m speaking all around the world with some of the largest groups in the world. So, but that was a real defining moment at the time. It wasn’t fun to listen to that, but sometimes we need some of that tough love and yeah, you know, I’m always grateful for that. Brett Gilliland: It is amazing. Isn’t the the tough love and how in the, in the moment it sucks, right? You probably were pissed at her. It’s like, you don’t, you don’t understand, I, I got this. I’m good. This is your guys’ fault. But then when you slow down and learn from it, that’s when it becomes really, really valuable information, right?  Chris Johnson: Well, and then now when I go to an event, I’m always, you know, I, I’m overly friendly. I wanna be, I’m not that, you know, I don’t wanna be that person. But at the same time, I I, I treat it like, you know what, if I don’t have a rehearsal and I’m not, I’m not going on. And so I’ve really learned along the way, cuz a lot of times you get with different people, whether it’s the AV teams or whatever, and they’ll say, we’re all set. I’m like, no, we’re not at set. We’re gonna make sure this thing rolls. And even doing that, sometimes it doesn’t always, you know, go off. But you know, you, you have to set the tone. You have to let ’em know that I’m coming in here. My goal is to have an amazing impact of as much as I can, but it’s gotta, it’s gotta be in the right realm. So, and then we do the same thing, you know, ideally with podcasts and virtual events and the same things as, you know, preparation is everything. What’s the process look like? And, um, sometimes that’s what I teach, you know, Other people in this space. I’m like, what are you doing? I’m like, well, you gotta, what’s your process? What’s it like before you’re gonna get up on stage? What do you do, you know, the day before? What do you, what do you, what? How are you preparing? So, so again, that’s the stuff that I think people, um, you know, once they get the process in place and they really start to polish it, whether it’s an advisor or whatever profession, you’re in, then you can really, really get good at what you do.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I, I just love the fact though, I wanna make sure we’re spending more time on that, that you talk about the preparation, you talk about the rehearsal. I mean, we, you’re the 325th person I’ve interviewed and just had our sixth anniversary, but it’s, you know, we have the same process every time. Right. There’s your picture, there’s your bio, there’s your stuff. Here’s my notebooks. Over the last couple years, you know, they’re the same note. And I don’t say this as in bragging, it’s it’s, but you gotta have a process, right? So when I’m getting ready for my interview with you today, what does that look like? Right? So if it’s a sales meeting, somebody’s walking into, yeah, maybe you’ve given the same sales presentation a million times, but that million first time matters just as much as the first time. And so what are you doing to make that process better? So for me, my question for you there is, what do you do now to stay a student of the game, to keep getting better and growing from what you do every single day?  Chris Johnson: Well, I think I always try to do, and number one, I want to be prepared. So I just did a webinar with a group outta Chicago just before I came on, and so preparation is starting at, we did it at 11:00 AM. Eastern time. So at 10 o’clock we’re getting ready, lights, camera, action. I’ve already done, I already know who I’m talking to, what we’ve done with ’em. I know the P players, you know, it’s all that preparation. Yeah. And then I go through my slides and this is what we’re gonna discuss and I, I kind of rehearse in my mind what I’m gonna do, and then I try to bring as much energy to the party as I can. And so it’s the, the same thing over and over. And then you step back and say, okay, what resonated with ’em? What kind of q and a did we do? Were they asking? What were they not asking? So then you make some notes to yourself and like, Hey, this really resonated with ’em. These are the questions we’re getting. And so it’s not an accident now that you’re hitting those points during your presentation in the future. So to me, even though it might be similar, but it’s always new. And so if you’re not making it new and fresh, like if you did, how many webinars or how many podcasts have you done? You said 325, is that right?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah.  Chris Johnson: Well, if it’s 325 and you’re bored, then the, your listeners and your viewers are gonna feel like it, you’re bored, so, right. I’m not bored. I’m excited. I wanna see the twinkle in their eye even sometimes I can’t see it, you know, with virtual, but that’s my goal. My goal is to say, how can I share this content, which I think is really important, but maybe help them understand how important it is and that how they can take it and put it into their world. So that’s always the challenge and that’s the exciting part of it. But yeah, a lot of the preparation, always looking at how can I make it better. And I’m a big fan of being curious, you know, asking questions and being really curious. What can we do better? And any, and as you know this, you’re good at this and this is what you do, but when you think you know it all, you pretty much don’t know a whole lot, so… Brett Gilliland: Right, yeah. Exactly. Chris Johnson: I’ve been doing this a long time and I always feel like I can learn something. Brett Gilliland: So I’m gonna, uh, turn the page a little bit and, uh, and I, I say this is be not just because you’re a guest on the show, I, I truly mean this, or I wouldn’t say it is you, I think you look younger today than you did in 2018. So one of the things I wrote down, I, I wrote down is how do we age gracefully? Right? You got a lot of 40 year olds probably listening to this podcast and, uh, I don’t know exactly how old you are, but you look younger than you did five years ago. So that’s a good. So let’s talk about that, how we age, gracefully?  Chris Johnson: !Yeah. So I’m, I’ve turned in 66. I five grandkids. Um, as you know, Matt and Kristen are gonna be 37, so , um, yeah, tabs in in the room with me. Tabs gonna be 75 in the fall. And we, um, we’ve been friends for a long, long time and we try to take care of business because you gotta walk the walk. But if you think about aging, you know, my book was set up, you know, if you looked at my book here, I just pull it up here so people can see it. But the reason rest is first eat move is because rest is really the pillar. And so if you don’t have the pillar of rest, I just did a. MIT Con Conference , MIT conference in Boston in the fall. And I was telling all the group, these are all CFOs, some of the top CFOs in the world. And I said, you gotta be intentional about your rest. And if you look at the financial services arena, I find more and more advisors don’t get enough rest. Brett Gilliland: Mm-hmm. Chris Johnson: That’s when I get their blood back and we look at their blood work and their testosterone level for both men and women. It’s. I already know that they’re not getting enough sleep. So, so then they were like, how’d you know that? I’m like, well, cause if your stress hormones are on the building, your sex hormones are turned off, are o off. So, so the point of it is, is we have to understand the power of, of resting. And again, if you’re not sleeping, that’s the fastest way to age the human body. So we’re a big fan of understanding stress and understanding, you know, the conversations you have with yourself cuz stress is a killer. And then, uh, you have to have strategies. To be in performing your best from a rest standpoint. And that’s how you breathe. You know, are you breathing through your nose? You using your diaphragm? Are you slowing it down? Cause we’re just the opposite. We breathe through the mouth, we breathe through the chest, and we breathe too fast. So one of the fastest way to calm the mind, relax of ice, change how you breathe, and then, and then we move into sleeping and how important it is. And with all the social influencers and we deal with every day, but people think they need, they can hack their sleep. I tell ’em, here’s the deal, there’s nothing more important than getting a good night of sleep. You have to understand the value of sleep, and if you think you wanna hack it, I’m, I’m here to tell you, you can’t. There’s no hacking sleep. And the last but not least, you like the pace of your life. I find a lot of people, especially in the financial services arena, love what they do. They do not like the pace of their life. So then we have to deal with that. And then from there we move into, you know, are they getting enough water? You know, what nutrients are they missing? Are they getting more whole foods? And then, you know, are they fasting 12 to 14 hours and then we move in our body, we’re getting sunlight. Um, so those are really as simple as it sounds, it’s no different than you were talking about your process. That’s what I do with people when they come in and do retreats. We do one-on-one training or we do live events. We help them build a, a, a sustainable, uh, foundation that allows them to age and be vibrant, you know, in that capacity as, as we age. And I think people are looking for that. And we just got back from skiing out in Colorado and I’m skiing with two of my friends and we’re both, you know, they’re a little bit younger than me, but, you know, all in that same 65 range. And, I was teasing ’em. I’m like, Hey, hey, I’ve never seen you guys ski this good. And they’re like, you know what? I’ve never seen you ski this good. And we’re all kind of patting each other on the back. But , it really was, it was three, 65 year olds have been skiing their whole life that are, are doing pretty good. So I think that’s what people are looking for from an aging standpoint. They wanna, they wanna have that vibrancy as they age. And again, um, it’s, the body is incredible. , it’s ability to heal and self-correct if you just give it the right, right ingredients.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what will you do? I always compare this to like investing money. You can’t invest a dollar today and expect it to be, you know, worth $3 tomorrow. Right? Well, I mean, I guess you could get lucky and do that. The point is, it’s compounding, it’s time, right? And same thing with our exercise at 65 years old skiing, doing all that, how many people listening to this right now wanna be 65 and skiing? Raise your hand. I think a lot of people will be raising their hand. But what were you doing when you were 35 years old or 40 years old, right? What have you been doing for the last 30, 40, 50 years of your life to be where you’re at now, to be skiing at age 65?  Chris Johnson: Well, I think the big thing, you know, way back in the day, I was an exercise physiologist, so I was always interested in playing and you know, I played sports and working out and all that kind of stuff. So we’ve always been a big fan of strength training. Cause strength training is the fountain. I would say today I’ve probably, we did a podcast that comes out on Monday on strength training. But I think the way I, I stretch a lot more, I work on more mobility flexibility. I train a lot smarter than I used to. I would say my nutrition is so much better than it used to be. Um, I’m a big fan of wheatgrass and cod liver oil and just eating real quality of whole foods and then I’m really intentional about my rest. So I think I’ve polished the, the stone quite as I’ve gotten older, but I always was interested in my health. I think that’s the biggest thing, that you have to get people to be intentional about their health. And if they’re not intentional about order than their wealth, they’re not gonna have it. And so it really is what you just said. It’s compound, compound interest. You just build and build and build, and then you keep getting better at it. And I think that’s what your, your, your group would tell you as, as advisors or whoever’s listening to this. It’s all about how do you do what you’re doing and, and, you know, make it 1% better or whatever, wherever you’re at and what’s driving you. So I think that’s, for me, I’ve always been interested in it, but I’ve learned a lot over time. I, I know a lot about medications. I know a lot about blood work that I didn’t know early in my career. But those things that I, I’ve, I’ve definitely, um, for myself personally, I, I try to really pay attention to those three pillars that are how we rest, eat, and move. Brett Gilliland: So that, let’s talk about that. The, you said strength training, um, you’re a big fan of that. So, you know, I do strength training, I do yoga, I do stretching. I do, you know, a rower or a bike or a, or a treadmill, all those different things. I got, I got another exercise. I do a lot for mobility type stuff. H how much time should we be spending on weights versus, you know, mobility, flexibility type stuff and versus cardio, those three areas. Chris Johnson: Well, I think number one is you gotta get people interested in understanding that they need to move their body every day. So that mindset needs to change. I need to move every day. Now, it could be five minutes, could be 10 minutes, but I’m gonna move my body sometime during the day because the greatest benefit of moving your body is what it does for your mind. And so we gotta get outta the mindset that workouts is just for my body, heart rate variability and all the stuff that’s going on out there, but what it does for my mind. So I’m gonna move my body every day. And then from there, I would spend a lot less time doing cardio and a lot more time working on mobility, flexibility, balance, and strength. And I think that’s the missing link out there for many people getting on a treadmill or getting on elliptical or getting on these things. There’s nothing wrong with letting your brain kind of just chill out, but that’s where I see the mistake. People are getting very, very, they’re spending too much time doing cardio and not enough balance in the routine. And so when I bring ’em in and we do training, and they’re doing X, Y, Z. I’ll challenge ’em. What’s your balance like? What’s your mobility flexibility like, what’s your strength like? And so when now we start looking at what are their goals and then really start training specifically for goals and then make it, make it enjoyable. I think that’s the big thing when you talk about movement, it has to be somewhat enjoyable where you’re not gonna repeat it. So I’m a big fan of play, you know, as we age, we need to play. I just mentioned about ski. But then you wanna train to play. And so I have a lot of people playing pickleball and you know, I play a lot of paddle ball, but that’s their workout, that’s what they do, right? They play to get in shape. I’m like, no, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta train to, to play. So anyway, so that’s really my, kind of, my thoughts on, on creating that balance in your, in your workout or, you know, your movement routine.  Brett Gilliland: And so what’s that look like for you or for, you know, people again, whether they’re 35, 45 or 65. What are you doing? Like what is that? Are are just literally old school stretching? Is it there a program for that? Like what are you doing?  Chris Johnson: Yeah, so I, so yeah, so in my book, and again we have it on our work workout Wednesdays on our website, on target living. But I always start some type of movement. So I’ll get in there and not do dynamic warmup. I’m moving my arms overhead. I’m twisting, but I’m warming the body up. And then I do a y a group, a handful of yoga poses. That works in my mobility, flexibility, balance, and strength. That might take me a total amount of time, maybe five to six, eight minutes. But I’m a big fan of working on your extremities. Like for example, I do mobility, flexibility, wrist exercises, hands my feet, my ankles. So I, I’m always doing that kind of stuff. And then I do generally some type of cardio. Like today I did mini trampoline. So I get on the mini trampoline for a minute. I’m hopping, running, jumping, doing , and then I get off that and I do a three day strength split routine. So today I did chest and back and core. I do the mini trampoline, and at the end of the workout, after I’m warmed up, I’m gonna do some restorative stretching. So I work on the hip flexors, I work on my back, I work on all these different things, and that would be something I didn’t do probably 20 years ago. So that allows me to keep my mobility flexibility and not hurt myself and feel good. So that’s kind of a typical routine for me. I warm up to get my heart rate somehow up there. I’m gonna do the strength training and then I’m gonna do finish up with some type of restorative movement. And then I work on my breathing at the end. And I find many money with clients coming in that they, you know, they’re like your clients. I mean, they’re going 900 miles an hour. They’re simply successful in their business. But they’ll say to me sometimes, this is the best hour of my week. And I said, why is that? And they said, because you intentionally get me to slow down at the end. Yeah, yeah,  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So that breathing, is it more of a meditation type breathing, or is it like belly breathing, box breathing? What, what kind of breathing are you doing?  Chris Johnson: It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s traditional belly breathing. So again, you’re gonna breathe through the nose, you know, use your diaphragm, your belly. And then I’m a big fan of, you know, the four second inhalation and the six second exhalation . And so if you can get people to do that, and they do either do that for a minute or so, the next thing you know they’re breathing five or six breaths per minute versus, you know. So it’s a skill that people have to learn because as they learn it, they’re gonna just be naturally slow breathers using the diaphragm. Yeah. And then understanding the power of box breathing is more an energy thing. That’s why the Navy Seals do it, cause they’re getting ready to go into battle. So I’m not a big fan of holding the breath when I’m really trying to get ’em to chill out. But there’s lots of different ways. In fact, in a chapter my book, I have the Lost Art of Breathing. It’s, you know, it’s a whole chapter on breathing. But yeah, if you make a simple nose belly, slowing it down, That’s, that’s really powerful stuff for people. Brett Gilliland: And I, I have found too, I’ve, I’ve been, uh, um, focused on breathing and meditation for, gosh, probably seven, eight years now. And it, it’s been a life changer for me from a guy that’s got a ton of anxiety. It’s, it’s been probably the number one thing I would say actually that’s helped me get through anxiety and, and now it be an ally, uh, versus an enemy. But I would say it’s also a big deal that when you’re sitting in that meeting and you’re in a boardroom versus working out and you kind of have some anxiousness come in, or man, this is a really big meeting and, and you know, you have to have a tough conversation. I have found the training, that training right, you do in the gym also has helped sitting at a desk. Right. That it’s like, okay, I can, I can quote unquote meditate and you not even know it. Right. But I’m slowing my heart right down.  Chris Johnson: Well, again, you what you’re just saying now you’ve developed a skill. This is a skill. People are like, oh, I already know that. Well, you don’t practice this. So it hasn’t turned into a skill. So when I look at breathing, you wanna teach people the skill of how to breathe. In fact, I had a couple in last night, I have birthday balloons, and this is something all your advisors could do with their clients, but get a bunch of birthday balloons and have ’em blow it up, and they know the strength of the diaphragm, right then. And so now you get their attention. So if you don’t have that strength in the diaphragm, you’ll become more of a chest breather, especially as you age. And the fastest way to quiet the nervous system, which your sympathetic nervous system, that’s fight or flight, is changing how you breathe. So now we have a skill that I can calm the mind, relax the body, and I can do it on demand. And nobody even knows you’re doing it.  Brett Gilliland: Right.  Chris Johnson: Sometimes when I do alternate nostril breathing , that’s a whole nother level. My wife will say, you know, you’re an idiot. I’m like, okay. She, cause she knows we’re probably not having a great conversation. Yeah. As soon as I do that, she start, she starts to laugh and then, you know, things become a little bit more relaxed, but the breathing is a powerful skill.  Brett Gilliland: Yes, it is. It is. What have you seen, I’m sure you have, you’ve been doing this a long time. I’ve, I’ve been seeing people, these, these people hunt social media that tape their mouth at night to, to sleep. What, what are they doing there?  Chris Johnson: Well, the big thing, we were running out during covid toilet paper and mouth tape. And so when James Nester came out with, you know, the book Breathe, which is about 400 pages, about how to breathe, you know, he would, he lead starts his book off talking about, you know, having the awareness with the mouth ,mouth tape. And so when people, you know, tape their, your, your nose closed and they breathe only through the mouth, that turns into a disaster. And then we do the mouth tape, now they realize they breathe a lot more through their mouth than they knew. So it’s more of an awareness thing. I don’t think you need to go to a level where you have to tape your mouth. Being more aware of it during your day and people around you, how many people breathe through their mouth and not through their nose. So during my day, most of the time I try to breathe through the nose 24 7, even when I’m in the gym, unless the intensity gets too high. So yeah, it’s just an awareness but yeah, I don’t think people need to go to the extremes with mouth tape.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I’m with. And you exhale through your mouth when you’re breathing.  Chris Johnson: I always breathe, exhale through my nose. Inhale through my nose. Exhale through my nose.  Brett Gilliland: Okay. Okay.  Chris Johnson: So it’s more of, you know, cause the nasal passages are the switchboard for the nervous system. And there’s nothing wrong, like in yoga, they’re always getting you to exhale through the mouth. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I like to teach my clients, inhale, exhale through the nose.  Brett Gilliland: Okay, that’s good to know. So let’s talk about the eating. So we talked about rest. It’s the fastest way to age a human body. If we’re not doing it, we gotta be purposeful with it. We gotta be intentional. Uh, we’ve talked about moving right there. Let’s talk about eat. I went a little bit outta order, but, uh, rest, eat, move. Chris Johnson: It’s okay.  Brett Gilliland: What are we talking about eating now? What, what kind of habits do we need to be creating? We, we all know that, right? Eat healthy, eat your vegetables, shop around the, the exterior edges of the, of the grocery store and all that stuff. But let’s dive deeper into that.  Chris Johnson: Well, I think the biggest thing you have to understand about eating is if the nervous system is out of balance. You can’t have good digestion so the first thing you have to get under control is stress and understand the power of sleeping and the breathing and all this stuff. Once you can understand that a little bit, it’s not think about what nutrients are you missing. Is it B vitamins, it’s omega-3 fats, whatever it is. And number two, what are you not absorbing? So I always try to teach all my clients that your gut is a garden, and if you look at your gut as a garden, then everything begins in. So hormones, melatonin, serotonin, all these wonderful neurotransmitters, sleep hormones, or testosterone, growth hormone, it’s all made in the gut. Well, if the gut’s not healthy, you’re not gonna be healthy. So step one is you gotta get the gut healthy. Treat it like a garden. That’s the soil, that’s the seeds, that’s the water, that’s the sunlight. So once that’s under control, then we start looking at, you know, where do we begin? And it really begins with pre-pro and symbiotic foods. Not supplements, but foods. And most of those live in the carbohydrate family. So it’s apples, bananas, real oatmeal, sauerkraut, pickles. You know, we have a whole handout on, you know, uh, pre-pro and symbiotics kakao nibs coconut. So once I start bringing some of those real foods into the body, then we get into the water, making sure they’re hydrated. Cuz water is simple as it sounds for everybody. If they don’t put it in front of ’em, they get behind. It’s too late. Yeah. So you really need to get, you know, the minimum water. I’m a big fan of ginger and, you know, uh, lemons and things like that. But then, then we move into the super foods and so this is a big part of our business. I don’t wanna be a commercial. But you know, cod liver oil, we, we promote cell cod liver oil because omega-3 fats is about 95% of your population deficient. And the number one benefit of omega-3 fats, including cod liver oil, is brain health. And so when you talk about aging, if you’re not getting an omega-3 fat, you will not age well. So it’s good for your skin, your digestion, your heart. It’s great for hormones, anti-inflammatory. and this high vitamin D three natural. So the first thing I try to get all my clients to get some from omega-3 S, flax, chia, the cod liver oil. And then from there we move into Chlorophyl. Cause chlorophyl is great for the gut, anything dark green, but really wanting to start eating chlorophyl foods. So that’s gonna be kale, spinach, broccoli, bach choy. And then what we promote is spirulina chlorella, which is a freshwater alge which is high nucleic acids, a builder immune system, and then frozen wheatgrass. So now we cover lots of ground with very little supplementation, and that gets us to the next piece, which is the source. And what the source means is where does it come from? So if you’re eating an apple, you know, the apple’s the source. Then we turn into apple cider vinegar or apple cider vinegar, gummies. We keep moving away and that’s what the, that’s what I see right now in the world today. Everybody’s doing all these supplements and reality is why, just because you put it in the body does not mean your body’s gonna break it down and absorb it. So, so that’s nutritionally when you say, okay, let’s get the gut healthy. Look at some of those foods that make the gut healthy, make sure you’re getting enough water, then we. Certain nutrients were missing. Like my oatmeal on the run in the morning is loaded with B vitamins loaded with magnesium, but it’s all coming from food, so it’s a hundred percent rolled thick oats to cacao nibs, shredded coconut, so maybe some frozen raspberry cuppa, raisin, some nuts. Plant milk, cinnamon. In the refrigerator the night before loaded. And again, when I’m doing training here at our facility with our clients, especially in the morning, I bring it so then they like, oh my God, this is so easy and it’s so this and so that. And by the way, it tastes good and it’s great for my gut health. So that’s pretty…. Brett Gilliland: …put that in a bowl. You put that into a bowl at night before you go to bed or whatever, put it in there and it’s ready to rock the next day. You have nothing to do other than just start eatin’ it?  Chris Johnson: You just start eating it. Yeah. So again, simple. We bring groups in here. I had a group in here a couple weeks ago, 25 people I made oatmeal the night before. Probably took me, maybe, maybe took me a minute to make, doesn’t cost hardly anything but the real thick oats. Put ’em in the, the glass container, put your stuff in it the night before. It’s perfect. Oatmeal, can’t really screw it up. Any monkey can make it. And that’s the only in, in our, in our cookbook. The only recipe I get credit for is the oatmeal run. So the kids are kind of making fun of me in the, in that. So, and then from and from there, there, from there we look at, you know, meal patterning and the timing. And so once I start upgrading using the food target, so if you’re, you know, if you’re, if your folks aren’t familiar with this food target, we can send you this. Again, it’s easy to do. You can send it to your listeners , but it’s just upgrading. And then look at your timing. Am I fasting 12 to 14 hours overnight and am I eating, you know, three or four, five times a day? So, and that’s the big thing out there right now is like, everybody’s skipping meals, shrinking their time. I’m like, no, no. If you wanna be healthy and have good gut health and not stress the body, not be on a diet, then you need to make sure you’re fasting overnight and then you’re, you’re eating throughout the day. So, yeah. Yeah. We make this so hard sometimes., , so.  Brett Gilliland: It is. It’s amazing, isn’t it? But you just go back to normal things the way our forefathers ate, you know, hundreds of years ago. It’s pretty simple.  Chris Johnson: Well, I think the thing we’re seeing more today, you know, whether it’s the keto or whatever, and so we’re cutting macronutrients out of the diet and that’s not gonna work. Yep. So, you know, back in the, back in the eighties, we cut out fat. In the nineties we had a high protein, low carb. Today it’s the high fat, no carb, so we need the OAC or nutrients cuz they’re essential. We need healthy fats, we need healthy proteins, and you need healthy carbs. So that’s what’s, that’s where people are getting it wrong, in my opinion. And I’m seeing this because, and that’s the world we deal with and with their blood work, I get their blood work back and their hematology report’s not good. Their GFR, their kidney function’s not good, testosterone’s lower than they want it to be. They don’t know what they’re doing wrong. I’m like, well, yeah, you’re doing protein shakes, you’re doing energy drinks, you know, it’s not an accident to what I see. Brett Gilliland: Right.  Chris Johnson: And then they waking up because the blood work doesn’t lie. Brett Gilliland: And what’s the wheat wheatgrass do for us? So the wheatgrass is high in chlorophyl, which is natural detoxifying, but wheatgrass is the highest source of minerals of any nutrient in the world. So that’s, it’s grown in the ground for five months. We get ours from a, a farm about 120 miles north of Toranto. So the wheatgrass comes to your house in a frozen ice cube and you can just put it in a glass of water and it’s the first thing most people do in the morning. Chris Johnson: That’s, that’s a big, that’s a big thing we try to promote because it covers so much ground. I don’t have to take all these minerals cuz it is in the food back to the source. So that’s… Brett Gilliland: it just melts over time. It just, it just melts in the water and just… Chris Johnson: Yeah, you’re just drinking. It’s clean tasting. You know, I had a couple in here last night and um, they were like, is this gonna taste bad? I’m like, you’ll be the judge. I’m like, wow, it tastes pretty clean. I’m like, yeah, it’s supposed not, supposed to taste bad. Thing with a cod liver. Liver shouldn’t taste bad. Organic lemon flavor. Brett Gilliland: And if I’m doing a omega-3 vitamin, do you like that versus, uh, the, because you guys do the liquid, right? Chris Johnson: Yeah. So the reason we, so back to the source. So again, if you looked at this bottle here, we get it from Dutch Harbor, Alaska. It’s high in vitamin D-3, it’s line caught. Livers are frozen on the boat. But now the dosage, one tablespoon a day would probably be equivalent to maybe 6, 8, 10 gel tablets. So now you’re not doing the gel tablets. So again, we’re getting away from it. So my dose isn’t as good, the quality’s not as good, but then people are afraid of the taste. I’m like, okay, you try it. And they’re like, that’s when I do live events. Or Matt does it, or Kristen, we take these things. People are shocked at the taste. I’m like, well, it did. It shouldn’t taste bad. So that’s what we’re missing out there. It’s no different than financial services arena. It’s all about the quality. And if you can get people to do higher quality and do the compound interest, then their need for all these little itty bitty supplements starts to disappear. Brett Gilliland: This is great. I really appreciate all this and we’ll keep div…. We’ll put the link, uh, for those listening and watching to the Rest. Eat. Move., Uh, you have the power to feel your best book in the, in the show. Show notes here, pick it up. I can tell you they’re great authors cuz I have read their books. And, uh, it’s phenomenal. So I’ll be buying that one as soon as we get off here.  Chris Johnson: Yep.  Brett Gilliland: I buy some wheat grass. Don’t be buying. I’ve been fighting the wheat grass. Chris Johnson: We’ll be buying it. We’ll, we’ll we’ll send it to you. I’ll send you book.  Brett Gilliland: Alright. I, I, I’ve been, uh, fighting the wheat grass and cod liver oil, so I’m just, I’m, I circled it and said buy it. That’s why I put in my notes right here, so I’ll be, you’ll, you’ll be getting a sale. At least one sale today outta me.  Chris Johnson: Well, I think, I think our cod liver oil and, no, I’m not thinking I know it. It’s, I think it’s the best quality in the world. Yeah. And so we spend a lot of time and energy really getting that. And the same thing goes with the wheatgrass. So again, you be the judge. But yeah, those are two really powerful, um, super foods that we, we recommend.  Brett Gilliland: And then my last thing, kinda on the Rest. Eat. Move. Thing that move. How many days a week are you working out so hard that you’re breaking a sweat? Like how important is that versus, you know, you’re flex? Like if I’m moving around and doing some of those yoga, like I don’t, I can do 40 minutes of yoga, not really sweat. So do I need to be sweating every day?  Chris Johnson: No. No. Okay. What you need to be doing is you need to be doing movement. And like you said, sometimes movement’s gonna be more taxing and other times it’s not. But if, again, if we redline all the time, that’s no fun.  Brett Gilliland: No.  Chris Johnson: So that won’t last long. In fact, your stress hormones will go up. So when I’m over training, back to the bodybuilding, I’ve competed in a 10 bodybuilding contest since 1985 when I was over training. My resting heart rate would always go up. So I don’t want your, your, your viewers, your listeners to overtrain, and so that’s part of the recovery. But I want you to move. So like certain days I might just do stretching and, and I, I’m go for a walk and it’s pretty chill pill or maybe some yoga activities. I would say yoga’s easy, cuz sometimes yoga can be really hard challenging.  Brett Gilliland: Oh right.  Chris Johnson: But you don’t always need to break a sweat, you know, get into anaerobic, you know, training, that kind of thing, so. But I’m a huge fan of what movement does for my mind. Brett Gilliland: I like it. So I, I picked up, uh, a couple of your core values, uh, from your website. I, I, I’m a huge believer. Our firm’s a huge believer in our core values. Also trust and respect. Um, so I picked two. Anything is possible. And then curiosity and growth. Uh, those are two of your guys’ core values. So when, when you hear those, like, let’s talk about that anything is possible, what does that mean to you?  Chris Johnson: Well, when it kind of gets in towards health again, I think your listeners all would agree. If you don’t have your health, you have very little. Yeah, and so why is that not front and center for more organizations? That’s why Matt and I wrote Capacity, cuz again, we’d get, always get bunted. Hey, we’ll get to that when we get a chance. Well, I go, wait, wait a minute. That’s your four. That’s your core. Your people are always your greatest asset and the greatest asset of your people is their health. So when it sounded about being perfect, but understanding that if I had greater energy throughout my day, I have a bit more capacity. I feel good. I get a good night’s sleep. The list I’m gonna, I’m gonna rock the house. Yeah. I’m gonna have so much, you know, more to give. So, so that’s, that’s the foundation of pillars, so, so big part of that is if you’re not going in a great direction, well maybe start asking better questions. How could I be a little healthier? How could I enjoy the process? So I think that’s the challenge all the time, is I, I challenge ’em from a curiosity stand. If you’re on a cholesterol medication, you don’t need to be on it if you’re willing to change your lifestyle. Yeah. If you’re a diabetic, you don’t need to be a type two diabetic. It’s not irreversible, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, so, so that’s where you start throwing that, that curiosity that, you know, why do I, why don’t I sleep anymore? Why do I have ED? Why do I have, you know, a problem with my testosterone, right? Why do I have trouble sleeping? But when you get curious, those are the questions we’re always pushing the buttons. Then you start uncovering the real answer and the human body, as long as I’ve been, you know, it’s amazing ability to heal and self correct.  So it’s no different if you start today and you don’t have a whole lot of resources financially, we all know if you start doing a little bit at a time, it starts to add and add and add, and the next thing you know, people are doing pretty good.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. Taking my notes here. Awesome. Um, curiosity and growth. I think we talked about that. So, um, your, your daily choices. I mean, when you look at your day, if I follow you around with a camera every day, all day, what am what am I finding? Obviously the rest, eat, move is important, but what, what are some more things, habits, rituals, that you have that have helped you become, you know, super successful over your lifetime? Chris Johnson: Well, a thing, I really, I really focus on getting good sleep. So, and I, and I look at my lifestyle, I try to really pay attention to my space in my life. So if I don’t have a lot of space in my life, I’m not gonna be able to write books. I’m not gonna probably be very good on stage. I’m probably not gonna be very good, you know, with my kids and my spouse and my grandkids. So that’s really important to me. Um, and then from a business standpoint, you know, I try to bring energy here every day. I mean, I’m a, I’m very intentional about my energy and so as kind of a leader in our organization, you know, if I come in and I’m like, oh, I just don’t feel like it today. I’m like, you kind of have to fake it sometimes. But if I’m not having good energy, then I step back and say, what am I doing that I’m not real happy about? And so, you know, what’s my process look like? Do I have enough space? Do I have enough downtime? Am I going from meeting to meeting? I used to work for a hospital many, many years ago and it was crazy how many meetings we would have in one day. So, so I really look at my space and my day and do I have enough time to eat? Do I have enough time to move? Do I have enough time to breathe? You know, all that stuff. That’s kind of why I set the foundation and then I start really being intentional about what I’m gonna get done today. So I’m always looking at like, today, what am I, what do I have to do today? I have to leave the off. I gotta get it done today. So I’m not doing, trying to do 10 things, but what are the three most important rocks I gotta move today. Yeah. So that’s kind of how I look at my business, but the foundation of my business is always based on around my lifestyle.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. How much of that planning are you doing? Are you writing it down in a journal on your phone, a little post-it note, like, what’s that look like for you?  Chris Johnson: Well, my son will tell you I’m a paper guy, so I write it on paper and then what I have is I use Brian Moran. Brian Moran is 12 week year, the author of the 12, 12 week year. And I use that plan for everybody. And so at the beginning of the week, I look at my 12 week year and what are my rocks? I’m moving this week. and then I break it down. You know, when I come in in the morning, you know, if I’d have time later, later that later that day, or what am I gonna do in the morning? And I go, okay, this is what I gotta do today. And then if I don’t like what’s going on, I gotta really look at adjusting my calendar. Like if I got too many meetings, I can’t get to this. I’m like, wow, why, why am I not blocking this time to do the stuff that’s most important? So, so I use that model and I think that’s helped me a lot over the years. Of setting up my calendar and my schedule and when my schedule’s flowing, then I’m flowing. Yeah. And that allows me to come up with, you know, good videos and good content and things that we do in our business. But I think scheduling is a big deal for people cuz they have too little space in their life. Yeah. And they don’t like the pace of their life. So to me, I’m always looking at do I like the pace of my life? And if I don’t, I try to pay attention to that. And if I don’t do that, then everything else starts to fall apart, including lifestyle habits.  Brett Gilliland: It’s funny, I was just pulling up my, um, phone here. So I go to my calendar every, every Wednesday, you know, from one to three. It’s already pre-booked in my calendar. Strategic think time. And I’ve been doing this for years and it’s funny how many people I’ve shared this with, but nobody really ever does it. Um, but just having think time put on your calendar on repeat. You know, I used to, I used to do an hour and a half of it. Now it’s two hours where I just sit down with my black journal here, an ink pen and no technology and just think, and sometimes you literally just sit there and you kinda look out the window and you just, but you think, and, and I have found it to be some of the most critically important time for me as a leader, as a father, as a husband of, of anything I do all week long. Chris Johnson: Well, and I think the big thing you’re seeing right there is you give yourself some stillness. And in that stillness is where all the good stuff comes out. If you looked at, you know how the mind works, you have the conscious, subconscious, and unconscious. And so again, that two hour block gives you that space in your mind to, to think, and again about, talk about sharpening the saw. I mean, how incredible is that? And then people will say, well, I don’t have time to do that. You don’t have time not to.  Brett Gilliland: Right.  Chris Johnson: If you don’t have time not to, then you need that time because the time we love to waste is not wasted time. You might be looking out the window, but you’re getting your mind right for some, something crazy good in your world. Brett Gilliland: That’s right. That’s right. Chris Johnson: So I always have to remind myself like, I was flying back from Houston, uh, a week ago and I’m on the plane and I’m like, all these things came in my brain cuz I didn’t have, I wasn’t watching tv. I wasn’t, you know, texting, I wasn’t doing anything except just sitting there. And then I had, I’m right with you. I’m a paper guy, I’m writing the stuff down. I’m like, wow, okay, that’s cool. I need to write, you know what I mean? But, but you have to have that stillness to let these things up. And I, so I love what you’re saying, to have that on repeat and, and do it every week. And again, I, I think it needs to be not something you don’t do once a month, but you do weekly. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, absolutely. So where do our listeners find more of Chris Johnson and On Target Living? Where should we be sending them in the show notes here? Chris Johnson: Well, I think you could send, uh, it’s our website, which is ontargetliving.Com and if you wanna give him my email, I’m happy to chat with him. As you know, my son Matt used to say, dad, you’re too available. I’m like, uh, that’s the goal. So, and I think Matt’s definitely changed this tune over time because we’re here to help you. But my, my email’s, my name Chris Johnson with a C, all one word at ontargetliving.com. (chris@ontargetliving.com) so yeah, we have a great team. We have a lot of resources. Podcast comes out every week and um, we have to get you on our podcast. Brett Gilliland: Let’s do it. I would love it, man.  Chris Johnson: Yes.  Brett Gilliland: It’d be fun.  Chris Johnson: Absolutely. We’ll do that.  Brett Gilliland: Uh, well great. This has been awesome and, uh, always love spending time with the Johnson family and, uh, keep up the great work with On Target Living and, uh, and just thanks again for being on the Circuit of Success.  Chris Johnson: My pleasure. See you Brett. [/fusion_text][/fusion_builder_column][/fusion_builder_row][/fusion_builder_container]

Discover how Elle Scott’s decision to leave sales for a Fortune 100 company and pursue a career in Iridology has allowed her to do what she loves: helping people. Elle discusses how Iridology can offer an understanding of the happenings within the body and how adjusting aspects of your life according to the information you receive can help you revitalize physical, mental, and emotional well-being. Learn about her journey and insight into creating a healthy lifestyle. Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’ve got Elle Scott with me. Elle, how you doing?  Elle Scott: I’m doing fantastic. Thanks for having me. Brett Gilliland: It’s a little warmer, I believe, where you’re at. It’s uh, just a tad warmer, maybe like 60, 70 degrees warmer… Elle Scott: Maybe, like 85. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Elle Scott: …but I’m not rubbing it in. Brett Gilliland: No, exactly. And that’s okay. That’s okay. At least I’m looking out, I’m seeing sunshine and it’s beautiful out. Uh, at least, uh, you know, as beautiful as it can be in January, or I guess February now, isn’t it? February here in Greater St. Louis area. So, Well, Elle we’re gonna dive into a lot of great stuff. We’re gonna talk mindset, we’re gonna talk, uh, iridology or you’re an iridologist, which if I’m even saying that correctly, I am new to this. I am learning about it. I saw you on another podcast. I’m like, Hey, we gotta get her on here and learn about this. Uh, but before we do that, uh, I would love to just kind of dive into the backstory of what’s made you, the woman you are today and what’s gotten you to where you’re, where you’ve gotten. Elle Scott: Sure. So, uh, first of all, a huge fan of mindset, and I had the privilege of being raised by two entrepreneurs. So my mom and my dad, who were mainly in the real estate and construction field, and they were introduced to a lot of mindsets. So as a young child, you know, 10, 11 years old, I’m readingAhmed Dino and Zig Zigler. Yeah, . Um, and of course the, the all famous Napoleon Hill, which, uh, I consider that guy. My, my mentor though, never met him. Yeah. But his books are very impactful to me, and so that was always at the forefront growing up, and I ate it up. I wanted to know everything about how one manifests, how one directs energy. So I was that kid. And I also had a very strong desire to be successful. And, you know, I had done a lot of different things. I tend, uh, or had bounced around to a lot of different industries and tried different things. Did the, did the high school, college, uh, played college, uh, collegiate golf, uh, for Irvine, and that was fantastic and fun. Uh, but I wanted to try something else and really make it into something that would make me a lot of money. Not that golf wouldn’t professionally.  Brett Gilliland: Right.  Elle Scott: But it’s, I wasn’t that competitive… Brett Gilliland: A little bit different deal.  Elle Scott: …I was that. Right, I was that gal that, you know, told my coach, well, why can’t I smoke a cigar and wear, you know, skirts while we’re competing? He’s like, you’re not college material [inaudible]  Brett Gilliland: That’s not how it works.  Elle Scott: Exactly. Uh, so, uh, right out of college went into technology sales, so, software, Um, I mean obviously at the time there was still, uh, we were still using mainframe. We were still using Excel as base for our software programs and such. And so I got an early started to software sales. Uh, worked a lot with the state, uh, state government, and then went into more software and then cloud, and spent about 17 years in that industry, which I absolutely loved. There was just, you know, different types watching. This, the technology advanced so quickly. Obviously business acumen, I gotta travel. I worked from home, made my own schedule, so I got really, really spoiled very, very quickly and, and really enjoyed that. But during those times of working from home, I was doing a lot of humanitarian work. also something instilled in me as a young kid, you know, we were constantly, uh, supporting families in different countries in need and things that were more on the home front, like helping rebuild schools for Indian reservations and such. So all of this formulated kind of this, this drive to maybe move away from the technology realm. I was immensely successful in it, but eventually wanted to kinda move away into something else, and that’s where kinda iridology comes in.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So tell us, uh, tell our listeners what, what is iridology? So for, for a guy like me that doesn’t know anything other than obviously has something to do with the eye, uh, what is iridology? Elle Scott: Sure. So iridology is the only soft tissue analysis at present, uh, that exists. And basically it’s a snapshot of your entire system or your entire health. So lymphatic system, skeletal, uh, muscular organs, uh, you know, endocrine system, and then the skin and digestion, all of it as a whole is a picture of your health and it’s historic information. So, for example, um, you know, you’re, you’re formed in a womb and the genetics that are passed down, we can see some genetic, uh, in or inherit weaknesses or dispositions within the iris. But basically we use all that information from, you know, womb to now and basically build a roadmap to your health and where you wanna go with that. So it’s, it’s pretty fascinating. It’s eerily accurate. So my, one of my favorite things about iridology is I won’t know a single thing about your health, about who you are. Some, I don’t even know they’re genders, which is a question I obviously have to ask depending on… Brett Gilliland: Sure. Elle Scott: …uh, things that show up in the eye. But then I returned that analysis back to that person and they look at me like I just did some sort of witchcraft because it’s that accurate.  Brett Gilliland: And so what, so are you doing this with an eye? I mean, am I taking a picture of my eye right now and texting it to you and then we’re gonna do this live on the podcast? Or like what? Like what do we do here? Like how do we do this? What, what is somebody listening this, what do they take away from that?  Elle Scott: Yeah, great question. So, you know, back in the day and, and iridology’s been around since the 1800s. The suspect is, it’s actually been around since, you know, ancient Egyptian times, but nothing’s documented or things that we can’t understand. But, uh, up until the 1800s, it’s been, um, a, a study. And then, uh, Dr. Bernard Jensen brought it into the states in the 1900s and it became a practice. But the technology, of course now we have is in our hands, and we can use the cameras in our phones and most of my clients are from all over the world, and they do take a closeup picture with their phone and send it to me for analysis. I also can take it with, uh, what I call the magic cam and it’s this Frankenstein created custom camera that gets up really super close in the right lighting and it can get these super crazy cool pictures, but it’s not necessary anymore because of the technology we have in our phones.  Brett Gilliland: That’s amazing. So, so if I did that and I send it to you in your office, and, and so what, what type of stuff are you telling me? So again, for our listeners or people watching, I’m taking a picture of my, eye you know, with my iPhone of my eyeball, I’m sending it to you. So like, what are some examples of things that you’ve done lately to help people you know, better their lives, right. Become the best version of them all from a dang picture, from their eyeball. What is it?  Elle Scott: Yeah. Gosh. I mean, it’s, it’s everything from getting their energy source back. Right, I mean, you have people out there who have hardly any energy or they’re in constant pain. Um, I tend to, to move away from using, um, you know, labels because, but it’s easier for people to understand that. So like arthritic type symptoms to anything from a stage 2, 3, 4, 5 type of situation. Brett Gilliland: Wow.  Elle Scott: Um, and we really only use, and, and all we’re using is information that the nervous system is returning to the iris, right? And saying, Hey, I’m in this part of distress. A lot of this information you could not even be experiencing in your, now this could be stuff that we see that could, that could actually become an issue in the future. So it’s, it’s even, it’s even more of, um, a preemptive strike, if you will.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Elle Scott: To some of the health issues. But, um, mainly what I’m doing is, is my focus is a lymphatic system, because literally that’s the only way for someone to get healthy at, at, at a, at a deep level, healthy to get out, you know, systemic pain and chronic issues. We always go back to lymphatic system because that’s your sewer system, and that’s where we focus in our work to help people, you know, relieve what, whatever it’s. Brett Gilliland: And, and let’s, so let’s just assume I had that issue, right? And I had this pain and I had this lymphatic system that needed the cleaning out. So then what is it? Is it my diet? Is it exercise? Is it, uh, you know, taking vitamins? Is it all the above? What does that look like?  Elle Scott: Sure. So, uh, you know, there’s different levels of detox and we, we call it detox and really it’s cleansing, but it’s a deep cleansing, right? It’s something that not a lot of people really utilize, but is becoming more popular as we start to, you know, deep dive into the science. But, um it’s really mainly through diet. You figure your sewer system is everything affected by what you take into your body. So from the deepest levels of detoxification, we’re talking, of course, changing it up to more of the base chemistry. When I say base chemistry, I mean there’s only two sides of chemistry. There’s the acid side, which is corrosive, and that’s what causes all the pain and inflammation. And then there’s the bay side of chemistry, which is closer to alkaline, but not to the extreme cause that’s where you’re gonna get some issues. But, uh, you’re really gonna look at kind of your base chemistry, fruits and foods like fruits, berries, melons, some of the softer, you know, fruit, vegetables, and then strong herbs, not necessarily supplements, because those are slightly different than herbs. Supplements are, as they say, um, but the body prefers synergistic herbs, rather than elemental supplements. Uh, but again, this just comes down to choose your own adventure. How deep do you wanna go? What are we looking at when we look at the eye and the state of your health? And that determines how deep we go and kind of the direction. But usually it’s, it’s in those two realms, it’s always. Diet. And then of course I stress mentality. I stress intention, I stress that non-physical side of this because if you don’t want to be well, or if you don’t believe you can’t be, well, then we need to start working on that first.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And that’s hard to do, right? If, if, if you and I both agree with that, I would think we, we love the mindset. We, we believe in positive attitude. You know, my wife and I talk to our, our kids all the time. If you, if you think you can’t, if you think you can, you can’t. Right? Either way. You’re right. Uh, and it’s all about right up here and what we’re thinking and so, so to talk to our listener that may not believe to the level you and I believe that that’s possible, what advice would you have for them? Elle Scott: I would say, first of all, take inventory and look at your results in your life. If what you are staring at is not something you enjoy, is not something you like or it’s something you would like to improve. Consider that you are in control of that, because the opposite side to not being in control of your own outcome is that you’re a victim. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Elle Scott: And no one wants to admit that they’re the victim, right? No one wants to sit there and say, well, yeah, I’m absolute victim and I’m just. Things are happening to me.  Brett Gilliland: Right, right. Elle Scott: I think majority of people would say, no, no, I’m in control of this. I, I, I’m gonna take control of this. And it’s really empowering. First, I would empower anyone to understand that that really is the case. You are not just, things aren’t happening to you. But that also is something I would empower someone and say, you can change that. And that’s me handing back your responsibility. Back to you. Brett Gilliland: Yep.  Elle Scott: And start there. And then just try it. Just try small things. Don’t go big. Don’t say, you know, next thing. I want a Bentley in my, in my, uh, garage in two days. And you’re over there, you know, chanting for it. Try something small. Try…  Brett Gilliland: It’s taking action every day, right? Elle Scott: And take action. I mean, there’s, there’s a lot to be said, different schools of thought. You know, we’ve, we’ve listened to many masters and read many books, so there’s different ways to go about it. You can also tap into the way you feel because feelings are a vibration. They, they often help direct our thoughts or let us know where our thoughts are pointed and where our energy is going. Uh, but yes, ultimately take action, but don’t replace action or don’t replace mindset with action. Cause then you’re going too far. You’re just gonna try to effort your way through everything. Which if again, intention, I can get a client and they can say, I don’t believe in any of this, or I don’t believe I can be well, but I’m gonna go do everything you tell me to do. It’s not gonna work. You can’t action your way to belief. Brett Gilliland: That’s right.  Elle Scott: Belief. Belief is simply a thought you continue to believe or… Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s funny you say that. So the circuits of the Circuit of Success, hence the name of this podcast, the first one is your attitude, right? I always say you decide where you go. You decide when you wake up, you’re gonna be a victor or a victim, right? So yeah, once I decide that, then there’s my belief system because between the two, there’s gonna be this thing in life we call rejection, right? And rejection is gonna get me on my day of like, well, crap, I woke up in a great mood, but uh, this little light on my phone is bad news. Right. Well then it comes to my belief system, right? And I’m going really quick here on this, but my belief system, then I ultimately have to take action to get the results that I want, right? And so when you hear it laid out, like that attitude, your belief system, the actions ultimately get your results. What do you think about that? Elle Scott: I, I agree. Right. There’s we’re, we are human beings, not human doings. However, when you, there’s, I always say only take action when you’re in alignment. That’s the most important part, because taking action out of alignment isn’t gonna produce anything, but they’re always has to be a level of action. Almost, you wouldn’t be able to help. If you’re inspired and you believe in it, you’re like, there’s nothing that could hold me back from doing it. So yes, there’s always that level of action. It’s, it’s a, it’s a whole look to your point. Those are all connected. Brett Gilliland: So I would love to know, I like this question. Uh, he probably hence why I ask it, right? Um, but if, if I were to follow you around every day and I’m, I’m hanging out with Elle Scott and I get to have a camera and say, show people. These are the no miss things that you do every single day. What are those things for you to be at the top of your game?  Elle Scott: Sunlight, for sure. And if you can’t get that, um, you know, I get that everyone’s got a different climate. Um, do your best to get some form of self soothing type energy, right? Get, get some sunlight. Get some warmth. If you’re in the colder regions, um, maybe get into, you know, something that, that energizes you, because we do need those elements, and that’s sometimes tough in the winter, so I get that. Uh, but for me it’s, I get out, I get, I need fresh air, I need sun. Or just daylight. And then, um, I, of course, I, I don’t jump right into my work as much as that. And through my 17 years of being in a career, that can be tough. You know, you’re salesperson wants to know how are my deals going?  Brett Gilliland: Right. Elle Scott: But I really make sure that I start my day off with aligning myself with my energy, checking in, how am I doing today? I go take my walk. I, of course, that’s a form of meditation, and I tap in and set my intention with my energy. I may not be setting the intention of I’m gonna do this, this, this, and this, and this, because again, I wanna make sure that energy and the feeling and my attitude is in check first. So, uh, that’s usually what I do every single day. And then I start my day off with fruit. Um, whether that’s I eat it or I juice it because again, I’m breaking that fast. So I’m moving my body a little bit. I’m breaking my fast with the most cleansing astringent properties to keep my system, uh, good. And again, I’ve fasted all night long during sleep. And, um, and then I jump into my work, you know, with, with clients and whatnot. So I’m, I’m constantly communicating with them, um, and making sure that it’s on all fronts, not just doing eyes, but when we do health consults and I’m, I’m checking in, how are they doing? This is a process. And providing more, uh, encouragement on the mental side or throwing more resources to keep. Keep them going on this. And then I always leave time to do nothing. This is the other thing, blank. Nothing, literally just stare at the wall. I, I really, I really stress that in this, in this day and age, we have instant gratification with information. Everything’s ping us and I really take a point to sit in a state of silence and do my best to not to do anything. So I just can decompress and receive whatever, you know, inspiration I need to.  Brett Gilliland: Which is hard to do, right? As a go-getter, as a, a hard charge in person. I think it takes practice to do that. I mean, for me, I, I, I do that same thing, but more of a meditation, breathing exercises and, but it’s really hard. Like even this mornings was really, really hard to do. Like I just didn’t wanna do it, uh, for some reason. And I don’t normally feel that way, but for today, I didn’t wanna do it, but I did it. And, but I’m glad I did it, you know, and it, but it’s really, really hard to do that . Elle Scott: It is, you know, back in the days when I was surfing every day, um, when I, I lived in Southern California, so I’d get up, I’d surf every morning and Dana points and really enjoy it. But lemme tell you, I am not a fan of cold at all. So there’s no warm water like we have here in Florida, in Southern California. But I would’ve to give myself that pep talk, like, no, you’re gonna be so much happier after you do it. And it’s gonna set your tone for the day. Salt water, which is energizing and wonderful and cleansing. So I totally get it. And some days I’ll force myself and I say force, or rather I empower myself to do something that perhaps I may not be ready to at that moment. And be good. And then some days I honor the fact that it’s just not gonna happen and something else is pulling me. So I’m, I’m not a rigid person whatsoever with my routine. Brett Gilliland: I love it. What, uh, what are you glad, or what, what risk are you happy that you took in your life? Um, that at the time was scary as hell, uh, but you did it and, uh, you’re glad you did it.  Elle Scott: I would say, leaving what I considered the best role and job I had ever had. And that was with the last company, AWS or Amazon. Fantastic company. Loved my teams. I was succeeding beyond any other years that I’d been in this career and I was making the most money in my life. I mean, everything was fantastic and to step away to work on personal business was a very, and I swore I would never do that. You know, I had stepped away many years before just to take a break. I really just wanted to shake things up and I literally became a flight attendant for a year and it was a blast. Oh yeah. I mean, like I said, total just random out of left field. … Brett Gilliland: Right. Elle Scott: I wanted to try it out and I thought, Um, when am I ever gonna say I can do this. I’m not gonna wait till I’m 60. So I took a break at one year, took a break, went to, uh, Nepal to rebuild homes after their really devastating earthquake and became a flight attendant. Enjoyed the travel and serving people and, um, and then I went back to, to work, but I swore I would never do that again. It’s not that it was a horrible experience, it was just, you know, anytime you leave. that, uh, very lucrative career and that stability, there’s always the unknown, and I swore that I would, I got that outta my system. But I’ve always been an individual who my number one is to, one, be happy and fulfilled, but two help people. And though I was helping people at a level in my industry, I really wanted to help people at a deeper level where I felt like I’m one of the only people that could do this. You know, I’m replaceable at these companies. Though I love these people and I’m doing a great job and succeeding. It’s time for me to step out. And it was, I mean, I, I have to say to the level where there were mornings where I wanted to just throw up.  Brett Gilliland: Wow, scary.  Elle Scott: That I could not believe I was going to. Yeah. It was, and I at least had myself to a financial position where I could, you know, had my investments, had the support of family and friends, and it scared everyone else too. But I made the leap and it’s been [inaudible]  Brett Gilliland: What in the hell are you doing, Elle? Elle Scott: Oh, like, you’re an idiot. Don’t do, oh, and also in the best community or best, uh, economy we’ve ever had. I mean, we’re talking go, you know, All these companies are just laying people off left and right. So if you weren’t already in there, you are not getting a job.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, right! Elle Scott: So to watch this industry also take a really big hit was tough to my heart, but I looked back and went, gosh, I’m, I’m in a position where I have something that’s super fulfilling and I can, I can grow that’s mine that I, that can’t be taken away from me.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I think that’s so true and there’s so much p pride and power in that isn’t there? I mean, to know you’re building something. I mean, I think of our advisors that, that work here, you know, almost 40 advisors and it’s like they work for themselves and, and, and, and nobody can take that away from ’em. The clients that they’ve built, the clients they have, there’s something about it, in my opinion, to when you go out and do something on your own and build something. I mean, it’s scary, don’t get me wrong. Right? And you earn every paycheck you’ve ever gotten. Um, but man, it, it’s so worth it in the long run.  Elle Scott: It really is. And I. Uh, I think a lot of people really struggled with the, you know, the pandemic and, and the shutdown. And of course in LA County where I was living at the time. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Elle Scott: Um, you know, obviously a newly, uh, Florida resident for obvious reasons, but it was really tough. But it, and a lot of people cursed it, it, it really hurt a lot of people, but it also helped a lot of people. I up and left LA County during the shutdown, grabbed an rv, remodeled it, and traveled around the country cuz I could. I was just, I, I, I couldn’t stay still. I 70% of my life was traveling. And so yeah, when everything shut down, I had a very emotional, emotionally hard time with that. I couldn’t see my clients. That was a big deal to be in front of people. So I just up and hightailed it out. Um, but it created a lot of opportunities for people to really look at what was important to them and step forward with that. So I think we see a lot of these wonderful companies and entrepreneurs be birthed outta that struggle, which, you know, if you read any of these books, you know, especially, uh, Think and Grow Rich and, and whatnot, some of the best, were birthed outta that failure or struggle.  Brett Gilliland: So when you, when you think of Think and Grow Rich, I just had oh, she wrote the book, uh, Mrs. Lechter with, uh, with, uh, the Rich Dad Poor Dad, couldn’t think of the name of it for a second. Yes, she was just on my, uh, podcast in. And so, uh, we talked about Think and Grow Rich. She works for the Napoleon Hill Institute. And did, did you ever, like I, when I was a young advisor in my twenties, I had these design statements we would call ’em, right, that came out of that book things I would say to myself, these, these kind of pep talks that, I mean, I still have them to an extent, you know, like carry in my journal. And so did you have that? Do you believe in that stuff? What’s your thought process there? Elle Scott: Uh, absolutely. Again, it goes back to, uh, you know, what are you, what are you telling yourself? , what are your beliefs? Right, thoughts become things. So for me, there were always, um, just one liners. Right. Like, um, nothing great leaves my life without something greater entering in after it or if this, if not this, then something better. And those were just my little things that I would, I would tell myself and just kinda walk in those. But it was constant, they were my statements to myself that, I’m good no matter what. So, yeah [inaudible] Brett Gilliland: I love that. It’s, so, I wanna talk now about, uh, pity parties. Okay. I, I call this bounce back theory, okay? And so the bounce back theory, whether you’re in sport, you’re in business, you’re at home, you’re at education. The most successful people at the top of their games, in my opinion, bounce back from defeat very quickly, right? You get bad news in a sales deal sucks, right? Emotionally it sucks. Maybe financially it sucks. But you bounce back, the best salespeople bounce back quickly. So when you hear me say the pity party or the bounce back theory, what’s your pity party look like? Elle Scott: Oh goodness. I’m not sure if I have one. Um, Brett Gilliland: okay. I love it.  Elle Scott: At least I, I will say that I’ve, um, I’ve experienced them quite a bit, maybe a long time ago though, but mostly in relationships. You know, I, I’ve been blessed with, like I said, that success mindset, but I didn’t have as strong as belief in creating my own own reality around relationships, uh, specifically romantic ones. So my pity parties probably happened then in that context. They were very short lived, but it would, um, It would never involve anything that would be detrimental to myself. I was never a self sabotager. I would never go just, you know, dive into the drinking or, or tell myself that I was, you know, bad. I think it was sometimes, Hey, you’re a little much, and you just maybe need to find someone who can deal with that level of energy and that level of, uh, drive. Um, so there’s not too many pity parties going on, thank goodness anymore.  Brett Gilliland: I love it. Elle Scott: Um, yeah.  Brett Gilliland: So what, uh, when you hear the word fear, I always ask this question of how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind have actually blown up to the magnitude you put ’em in your mind to be? Elle Scott: Ooh, very little. Yeah. I think we have a great way of making things bigger than they really are. Right. Um, thank goodness they didn’t show up as, uh, as badly as sometimes I would. But, um, I think, uh, I think probably the most recent one was probably the, the leaving Amazon leaving the job is that fear of the unknown. Even though I can sit here and say I’m going to create a, a magnificent, uh, give back to the world and something that’s valuable. I, I kind of saw that being a little bit more of a struggle than it, than it really actually was, so Brett Gilliland: It’s amazing, isn’t it? The things that we can build up in our mind, just like one little, like thing can, and it can just blossom and blossom and blossom. And I think that, you know, it’s one thing I hope people take from this podcast, and for me, I get asked all the time, what’s, what’s been your biggest takeaway? You know, there. Actually this, uh, this weekend, this Sunday will be my sixth anniversary. And I’ve interviewed, I think you’re the 323rd person. And, and it’s amazing, right? What you learn out of almost 300 and something hours of interviews, which is a long time. Um, but h. I have learned that the, the, the most successful people, and everybody I’ve asked that question to, the fears don’t blow up to the magnitude. We put ’em in our minds to beat. Right? But we do that and I’ve done it a million times. And so I hope that people, whatever fears they’re having right now, they’re working out or they’re driving down the road, they can take those things and say, you know what, it is a fear, but I’m gonna choose not to listen to that fear, to this level today, and I’m gonna take one step closer, one, one action step to get closer to where I want to go. Right? That’s, that’s the biggest hope I have for people is to believe in themselves, believe big, and then go make things happen.  Elle Scott: Yes. You make a really good point, is I, I’ve learned something over the past few years that, uh, I found that. Those moments of trepidation or hesitation started to get a lot shorter because I had learned from, I believe it was, uh, one of the, uh, I think Abraham Hicks or Jerry and Esther Hicks, and some of the things they were saying is, stop the momentum of that thought. You know, give, if you go past 17 seconds of that thought, you then create another one that is akin to that thought, and then what happens after a minute is now you put it out into the universe and it’s on, it’s in creation mode now. Right. So do your best to tell yourself, I get 15 seconds to think about this thought. And this is how I do it now, is if I really wanna think something, you know, that’s not empowering, I give myself 15 seconds to have that pity party if you will, or that, you know, disempowering thought. And I don’t let it go beyond that because I realize that, that will create another one to harmonize with it. And then I only have a short amount of time before I actually put that out into the universe. So yeah, just stop the momentum, do anything to stop the momentum.  Brett Gilliland: That’s a really powerful saying. Just stop the momentum. Stop the momentum. I love that. Um, so when you see this, uh, this f greater than P sign in the back of my microphone here, that that’s our mission statement, right? And so that’s the future greater than your past. We help people achieve a future greater than your past and so, when you hear that, it doesn’t mean you had a bad past, but I would assume if I’m in a room and there’s a thousand people in there and I said, how many people in here wanna have a future greater than their past? I would assume most people would raise their hand. Right. So, um, when you hear that achieving a future greater than your past, what does that mean to you? Elle Scott: The first feeling or thought that comes to my head is massive impact. And I really, truly, Wake up every day wanting to make a positive impact in someone’s life and helping them to, you know, just empower them to go carry that on as well. I want to create a world of givers, givers of, you know, in value givers, not just someone who gives of themselves to a point where it’s self-proving or it hurts them, but true giving that helps other people to do the same thing and create that chain reaction. Right. Um, I would say that I would also, I’d also love to see, uh, this, you know, for me, continue on with this path. This has been something that I’ve loved since I was young. You know, iridology health and so forth. And in the past I doubted it. In the past I always, you know, went back to the things that were comfortable. Yeah. And I feel I’m beyond that where I, I’ve now opened up to the point I can’t ever go back cuz this is just too amazing what, what we’re doing. And I would, I would say that my past has always kind of had this bounce back to the safe. So the future is definitely a lot brighter than the past.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, well it’s, when I hear you say that, I think of, I call it the comfort zone callous, and, and I, I picture this little circle is your comfort zone. Right? And we keep buttoning up against it and, and we create this callous and we just can’t get through it, right? So we gotta figure out another route to go. And I think it’s, it’s easy for us to do that, isn’t it? To go back to what’s comfortable. Um, oh yeah. We have to get, we have to get comfortable being uncomfortable, in my opinion. And so that’s what it takes. You’re following your dreams right now, right? It may have been the scariest thing you ever did, but you’re following your dreams and that’s, that’s super impactful. Elle Scott: Yeah, and I definitely want to, uh, in some way, you know, I obviously don’t know everything. There are people who have far more success and have done this for much longer than I have, but if I can inspire someone to just rip that bandaid off and do it, Then I’ve, then I’m, I’m fulfilled. I love… Brett Gilliland: I love it.  Elle Scott: …I love just being able to inspire. Brett Gilliland: So I’m assuming you got a cell phone pretty close to you there, and, and if I were to steal that cell phone from you, what are the, besides email, because you gotta have email for work and all that stuff, but if I stole it from you, what’s the one thing that you hope I don’t take and delete off of your cell phone forever? Elle Scott: Wow, that is a really cool question and not where I thought you were going with this. Um, what’s the one thing I wish you wouldn’t delete? Brett Gilliland: And we can go too. I wanna know, I’d be curious on where you thought I was going with it. And we can go there a second, but after,  Elle Scott: Oh, I thought you were gonna say, if I were to look at, you know, other than email and stuff like that, like go to my Instagram, like what do I search and see a bunch of watches and classic cars, really. Brett Gilliland: Exactly. It’s amazing how that stuff just keeps showing up, isn’t it? I’m like, my goodness.  Elle Scott: Oh yeah.  Brett Gilliland: They know exactly what you’re looking at.  Elle Scott: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, given we’re in the world where everything backs up, but I would say, um, uh, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t delete the, uh, the text messages from my family. Like, let’s just say if those weren’t backed up, those, those text messages and, and my friends and just those, those are oftentimes the things that I look back on and, and realize and, and I say this, some of those text messages are really painful. Some of those text messages are also super positive, but that’s what’s gotten me to where I am today. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. Yeah. What would you say, there’s any apps or anything you use, obviously there’s all the social media stuff and you can grow a business that way, but , any, any apps that you use that are, that are really helpful for you to be productive?  Elle Scott: Oh, great question. Um, I, I love, um, there’s a few, so I love GoodNotes. It’s, it’s just where I dump all my thoughts. Um, I’m not a big writer. I’m a big audible person, so I will just voice notes into that. Um, and, you know, kinda like an Evernote, uh, is one of those, um, I also, gosh, there’s so many, you almost forget which ones you use on a daily basis. I know, right? Um, my , my White Noise app. I am one of those people that cannot sleep without it. Like, thank God they made this app because I, I have gone to different countries and they didn’t have fans and I, I think I just stayed awake for four days straight because of that.  Brett Gilliland: Well, what’s funny cause I have a really bad, I have a bad experience with that. My buddy Chris, I, when when you show up to your guys’ golf trip with 20 guys and you’re one of the last people there, you get like the worst room and you have to share a room. Right? And, and my buddy had, he had a white noise thing that was so freaking loud. I couldn’t even sleep a couple nights. And finally one night I got up and I’m like, I’m turning this damn thing off. And so I, I turned it off and, you know, I tried to fall asleep and all of a sudden he cranks it back up. I’m like, yeah, gah lee so I told him, I never want to hear white noises the rest of my life. Uh, that’s all I I was, I’ll throw out one I thought, the reason I asked that I, I love these, but I heard of, uh, I just got Basmo, B A S M O. I’m a big reader and it tracks you like kind of hit start when you read and then it tracks. And then when you’re done, you obviously hit done and what page you’re on. And it tells you like it, you know, at this level of speed of, uh, of reading. This is when you’ll finish that book. But you take pictures and you can audio the stuff you’re learning from the book and it keeps it all compiled in one spot. So now throughout the year, I can go back to those books anywhere I’m at and look at the highlights. My notes, my thoughts, all this stuff. Cuz you know, something triggers you in a book, right? And it’s like, oh, I need to do this, this, this, and this in my world, based on what I read in that book. So for me, I’ll just share that to our listeners or share that to you. I thought it was really, really good and it’s very helpful if you’re a reader.  Elle Scott: Oh, absolutely. I’m gonna download that. And you said it was Ba… Basmo? Brett Gilliland: Basmo. B A S M O. Yes.  Elle Scott: Okay. I’m gonna take a look back.  Brett Gilliland: Well, this been awesome, Elle, where can our listeners find more of Elle Scott? Elle Scott: Sure. So, uh, social media is, is obviously a great place. Um, I’m more active on Instagram, uh, and my handle is, uh, @showmeyourset and also showmeyourset.com. And that’s, that’s probably the best way to, uh, to get ahold of me.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, I hope people will take, uh, the, uh, the, the advantage of taking the picture, sending it in, and let’s learn something cuz I, I even saw in my research that they can, you could diagnose like lower back pain and kidney type stuff from looking at the eyeball.  Elle Scott: Yes.  Brett Gilliland: If I read it correctly, your ego is in your eye. I mean, that’s amazing.  Elle Scott: Yep. It’s, you know, the one thing I always tell people is, uh, you know that you use the word diagnose and we as iridologists say, you know, can’t diagnose, but you know, cause you get on the medical terms. Brett Gilliland: Sure.  Elle Scott: But you absolutely can see all of this. I mean, if you can think of a symptom, you can think of something, uh, you know, a dis-ease. We can look and see the root cause of that in the eye. And we, and everything we see is repairable. Unless you are missing an organ that has been removed, I obviously can’t stick that back in your body. But pretty much everything is, is addressable and repairable. And it’s pretty powerful.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s amazing. Well, we’ll put all that stuff in the, uh, show notes. Elle an, it’s been so awesome having you on The Circuit of Success. Thanks for being with me. Elle Scott: Oh, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much. And thanks to your listeners. 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Dr. Bhrett McCabe, the founder of The MindSide, explains that success comes from embracing your challenges and learning from them to develop an emotionally disciplined mentality. Dr. McCabe discusses developing an organized mind and encourages you to pinpoint who you are and what you want to achieve. Relate to his work with world-class athletes to create goals for your game of life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1Klwoah1A0&list=PLbvB0kVmlTP7mo99UtYan6rAaz5uNOzyN&index=1 Bhrett McCabe Brett Gilliland: All right, we’re live here. It says, okay, we’re recording. Awesome, man. Well, any, okay, I’ll get started here and we’ll get rocking. Um, all right. Uh,  Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland. Today I’ve got another Bhrett with me, Bhrett McCabe. Dr. Brett McCabe. How you doing, Brett?  Bhrett McCabe: Great. Thanks for having me.  Brett Gilliland: Hey, it’s awesome to be with you, man. We, uh, were talking, before we started recording, we got a mutual friend that we didn’t know we had a mutual friend, uh, Greg Larkin, Titleist rep down there in Birmingham, used to be here in the Edwardsville Fallon area. So you tell, uh, you tell Greg Larkin, I said, hello. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Oh, will and he to drop off some more golf balls for me on occasion.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, he is. Uh, are they allocated down there for you guys too? It’s funny, our country club, they’re allocated, man. It’s like bourbon. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Yeah. Not only allocated, I mean, they’re allocated like bourbon is, so just gotta fight like hell to find him.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, it’s crazy, absolutely crazy. So, well good, man. I just wanted to, uh, you know, let our listeners learn more about you. I always like to start with kinda what’s made you the man you are today. I know that’s a big question and, and a really open wide question, but just wanna start with that, of what’s made you the man you are today? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Uh, you know, I was very fortunate to be raised in a great family. My dad was military and my mom and, and uh, um, my dad was, was an only child. And, you know, there was a lot of organizational structure there. There was driven, if you set your mind to it, you go, well, you don’t stop halfway. Um, his dad was a, had a third grade education, was a carpenter, and both of his sons, um, my, my grandmother was German. They were a little older when they had kids way back when. Um, both of their sons are retired military. Um, my dad was a pharmacist with a degree in chemistry. My uncle has a couple MIT master’s degrees, uh, in chemical engineer, uh, civil and um, and, uh, mechanical engineering. So very, very smart in the Navy. Um, and so it was a culture that was driven. And then my mom was very much into that as well, which was, you know, if you’re gonna do something, you go all the way. You, you don’t, you don’t wait for other people to approve what you’re doing, and you don’t wait for other people to congratulate you on the back. You set your mind towards something and you work your tail off and yeah, you learn and grow and learn from people around you. And, uh, that’s what, that’s what I did. And so that was the culture. It’s like if you’re gonna do something, you win and you win the right way. You do things the right way. Um, and you don’t make excuses because nobody cares. Nobody cares . And then the other thing too is my dad also also taught me, he, you know, in the military, what he did, he did a lot of work with people who did really cool stuff like, and he did a lot of really cool stuff, right. And it’s just the military way is important stuff. And uh, he’s like, you gotta learn to stand in the shadows. There are too many people in my field and coaching and whatever, who, when a client has success, they find the camera, the spotlight. They take pictures of themselves celebrating it because it’s not about the player or the client, it’s about them to show the world Yeah. What they do and how to cross market that. And my dad was always like, you know, the work that we did, you were gone before the press conference ever started and we were already onto the next thing. Nobody cares, that’s your job. Do your job. And so his thing was, you stand in the shadow. So I think that was a culture that served me for my clients. Like, um, I work with some of the best players in the world in golf, um, and I work with the best athletic department in the country when it comes to college sports. And it’s, uh, it’s not, I, I hope, I hope I’ve never had to look at a player and say, A player said, ‘Why’d you make it about you?’  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. That’s amazing. And it is, it’s, it is cool. Cause I, I actually was introduced to you by a coach, um, a buddy of mine as a division one basketball coach, and, and he said, man, you gotta follow this guy. And so I started following you and listening to your stuff. And, uh, but it is cool because I watch golf all the time and, and you are working with some of the biggest players in the game. But yet to your point, you, you, I would never have known that. Right. I never would’ve known that. And I think that’s really… Dr. Bhrett McCabe: That’s the greatest complement you could give me  Brett Gilliland: …Really cool so, yeah. Yeah. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: You know, it, it’s, I, I think. You know, I want a player who calls me because they want me to work with them, not because I’m gonna use it to market to a company or a, an association. Like if, if, if a business wants me to come, they know I’ll work. I’m the psychologist for Alabama. Right? Yeah. Okay. You know how many people come through the University of Alabama and put their, try to put their stamp on it and then use it to market? I’ve, I’ve been sitting in workshops and seeing people say, well, when I was this, and I was, I’m like, you’ve never been there. Like, literally, I learned that very early on. What, what got me was about 15 years ago, I was sitting in a Barnes and Noble and I opened up a book in golf, golf psychology, and two mental coaches had written a book, and both of them had the same elite player write a prologue, and the prologue was identical. I literally couldn’t believe it.  Brett Gilliland: Wow.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: I want my players to know that, hey, if I need something, he’s gonna answer the phone, and it’s genuine and authentic. Yeah. And they pay me well, I don’t, I mean, it’s an exchange of services, right? The services are, is what we do, and I want somebody to know that I’m there for ’em, for their, for the reason they hired me. Um, in, in the social media world and everything we do right, is, you know, people will post a picture outside the building. And, and I, I remember watching a, a guy years ago who did this. It was like the, a draft was going on a major league baseball draft. And he kept posting my guy, my guy, my guy. And I remember another middle coach said, I’ve been working with that kid for six years. And he said, it’s his guy. The kid was in a workshop one time. One time. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: And, and so I just, integrity means the world to me, and we’re all competing. But the ultimate value is when a player tells you, ‘thank you’, and you know, it is genuine and, I- that, so when you say that, that is the greatest thing to me, that it means that I’m doing it the right way, which I want my content to be currency. I don’t want my connections to be currency.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And wouldn’t you probably, I mean, I assume you agree and so, and I didn’t say this earlier, but you are a clinical and sports psychologist. You’re the, uh, the founder of The Mind Side, PhD from LSU. You played baseball at LSU, win two national championships, uh, obviously working with Alabama and, and other, you know, sports guys that I won’t name. Um, but you know, the P G A L P G a, major League baseball, I mean all these places, right? Phenomenal stuff.  But I do genuinely believe and feel that, that you are the guy you say you are, which is really, really cool. But would you also not agree that those guys probably refer you to the next guy, right, because of that and who you are? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Well, that’s, and that the ultimate sign of respect, right? When somebody says, like, my financial guy is that way, Yeah, my financial guy is a list of clients that I know because I, how I got to him was because of that. And the financial guys and, and this guy is very well respected among professional athletes and it’s never about him. And it’s, you walk in his room, there’s not one picture of one of his athletes, not one. There’s a picture with him, with the president of the United States. And because he is like, that’s always a great honor. There’s a picture with him and his parents and his kids and his thing was, my credential should be on somebody giving me a recommendation. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: When somebody says, this is where I want you to go. And, and that’s what I want. And, and you know, I have a, a player, one of my tour players and, and he said this to people, say, well, what do you and Bhrett work on? He’s like, I don’t know. I don’t know, but I know that when we work on a much better head space. And I said, that’s a great compliment because I’m not giving you, here are the six hottest things to work on in the mental game. I, my whole philosophy is built upon the psychological fingerprint of the person I’m dealing with. You and I are, we have the same name. We’re completely different. Okay. Mom was a twin sister, but, and an identical twin couldn’t tell ’em apart until they were in their twenties. And they were different. They had different backgrounds, meaning my mom was the older, her sister was the younger. There’s a dynamic shift, right? And so we have to understand the people we work with, and it takes a lot of vulnerability people to open up. One of the things I hear a lot from coaches is like, well, did the player tell you this? They tell you that like, for the 45 minutes, I see him once a week. No, they didn’t. Yeah, you’re gonna see him in a different spot. And so I use the team approach a lot, and that’s why, I mean, I never want to be the person who, like I’m the reason they succeeded or anything like that, like that, that’s just not how it works. And, and I think maybe that comes from me, I played too, where it’s like, I don’t want that. Like, I want the player to celebrate that I will share their pain to some degree. I can’t share all their pain. But when it comes time for their success, I don’t want them to celebrate that. And because they’re the ones that have made those sacrifice. And so I think that just, I think it’s something we gonna learn. I mean, look, we’re in a very self promotional world and , the self promotion world’s important. We have to do that. If your content is good, self promote that. Promote the hell outta that. If you can make a difference in somebody’s life, promote the living hell of that because people need content. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, um, So what, what do you find that, that, let’s talk about that PGA golfer, for example, or the business person that’s listening to this right now. Obviously I’m not on the, you know, trying to make a birdie putt for, you know, a couple million bucks or something like that. I wish I was, but I’m not. Um, but what, what can you take from the golf course to the boardroom that things that we need to be focusing on? Like what, what is that mental mindset that we need to have, and hence the name of your company, The Mind Side. Like what do we need to be doing to be at our optimal performance on the mental side?  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Well, I think we have to know who we are, right? And, and a lot of times we, we listen to what other people tell us to do, but those people don’t really know the business. I have a good friend of mine who’s a CEO of a massive, massive billion dollar company. He’s like, I run a benevolent dictatorship. I make the decisions. I want to hear what you have to say, but I’m not gonna say I’m gonna do it because you don’t have all the information I have. Yeah. And you have to do your job. And I think as a coach, as a leader, and anything that we’re doing competitively is we have to match to who we are. Too many people are trying to change us. Too many people are telling us this is the 14 ways of being successful and happy. Like I always look at books like, here’s the how to be happy. And I’m like, but what makes people happy is different for everybody. Brett Gilliland: Right.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: You know, my mother-in-law, her happiness is having people at the house sitting around talking. Um, my happiness is knowing that everybody’s happy and in a good spot and a good meal and go to golf, right? Um, so I think where we get in trouble is when we try to do what everyone else is telling us to do. And that is, uh, that’s the scary thing. And so I think if we know what we’re doing and we establish a plan and we execute that plan, okay, that plan is to have challenges, barriers, and stressors all along the way. But we, we are flexible to what we’re doing, and we understand that increasing pressure brings more consequences, more consequences than natural inclinations. We wanna over control. So if we can turn that to being like, here’s the way that I get better and here are the decisions I’m gonna make and not reactionary, we can be successful.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: So I’m big on mission statements and goals because I find that we spend a lot of time setting mission statements and goals. I want every leader, every person to have an understanding of what their philosophy is. So if you’re in the financial services business, you know, I mean, I think you should have a philosophy of how do you find customers? How do you meet with, what’s your strategies? How do you, what’s the market like? I mean, you know, if you’re not a bonds person, don’t be a bonds person. Like Chick-fil-A only kills chicken. Like it’s okay. Like be who you are and rock it.  Brett Gilliland: And only six days a week at that.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: And they don’t apologize for it, do they?  Brett Gilliland: Nope.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Nope. Don’t apologize for it.  Brett Gilliland: I do want it more on Sundays it seems though.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: You do, and and other alternatives aren’t as good and… Brett Gilliland: No.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: …um, and, and, but they have a culture, right? And they have a culture that everybody buys in. And there’s a vision that people understand. As a leader, you have to paint the picture of what you’re trying to accomplish. And as a coach, I, I think coaches need to, if you’re coaching major sports, right, you should have a PR agency with you to help paint the picture. They’re specialists at it. Well, if same in business, right? Where are we gonna be in a year? But guess what? We have to let people know that their struggling is coming too. I think a lot of times in leadership, we want people to buy in so bad that we paint the rosy-est picture possible. And the first time we get in that scenario, we can’t handle it. The pilots that we get on, on the airplanes, they can crash land. They know how to do that. I hope they’ve never had to do it. I hope they don’t have to do it today, but they know how. Right. And they’re gonna tell you the turbulence in the air and we’re gonna do our best to make it a comfortable flight. But I’ve got us. is what they’re saying by saying that. And so I think, you know, we, we look at athletes and they’re driven, right? We assume that, you know, we watch a video of a hype person hyping us up. It’s not reality. Reality is it’s gonna be hard. And when it’s hard, who are you going to rely on? And we’re not gonna react, we’re gonna respond. We’re gonna, we’re not gonna prevent failures. We’re gonna embrace ’em. I always tell my athletes that there’s three types of animals, right? They’re, they’re critters that we see. You know, you got the possums, it’s an ugly looking thing under pressure, it plays dead. It has no defense. Which is funny because if you’ve seen a possum, they have ugly teeth and the hiss, and you would think that it could do some damage, but it plays dead. You have an armadillo that looks like a badass, right? That thing looks like a bad dude. But the minute stress hits, it balls up in its defenses, and then you have a lion. And the lion that sits on top of that rock is the one with the most scars because it’s earned the right to sit up there and it has no defenses. Yeah, I mean, the mane is just demonstrating, the tail and all right, but it sits up there because it believes in who they are. But they have scars. They fought their way to the top. Okay? And we have to understand that success is not about seeing stress as a reflection of something wrong. Stress fears in security helps. Those are reminders to, to be in a scenario where, um, we have improved our skillsets by the trials and tribulations we’ve been in because we’ve taken an accurate look at what we do. You know, teams lose and fans freak out and they’re like, oh my God, the future Great. Coaches look at it and say, okay, you know, there’s four outcomes to it. We played well in one. We played well in Lost, we played poorly in one, and we played poorly in lost. All we can do is, is focus on the way that we play, but we have to learn. We can’t control the outcome, but we can learn how to improve what we’re doing. And so accurate reflection is like, Hey, where are, what are we doing? What are the decisions we’re making? What are the, that’s what we do in sport, right? I would say too, that great leaders of boardroom need to be planned. Like when I did corporate work for eight years, I was always amazed and I had a great manager, but I’d always be amazed and I’d go cross over to other managers for a period of time and, and you know, the meeting was start, they’d hand out the agenda and I’m like, that’s worthless.  You’re handing me the agenda starting sent to me 24 hours ago so I could be prepared because the first five to 10 minutes I’m doing everything I can to make sure that I’m not on that agenda and I’m prepared. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, and so the, the, the hence you don’t need to be a morning person. You don’t need to be an evening person. You just need to be you. We all have different bio rhythms and so some people are late night people. Like, that’s fine. Some people are early morning people. That’s wonderful. Be who you are. and you know, like, I like to write by going to a coffee shop and putting headphones in and listening to Guns N Roses, Nirvana, Eric Church, um, you know, stuff like that, right? Yeah. You know, Tom Petty love, Tom Petty. Okay. I can’t sit and quiet to write. Other people need peace and quiet and I write in verse. But it takes me a long time to write a book because I’m gonna analyze it, look at it, because it’s an enduring document. And, but that’s me. Like, I can’t write a book that goes out in six months. People have to understand who they are and what they want, and then you build the plans to get there. Um, I am not very detail oriented when it comes to business practices. I want to go like, let’s go, let’s get on top of it. Now when it comes to writing and stuff like that, I’m much more, um, detail focused. And when it comes to like running teams, I am, but when it comes to going to get business and all the other stuff, I’m not gonna write a business plan. The amount of time it takes me to write a business plan, I can go get the business. Right? Right. But I need help on the back end. I don’t do a good job of bringing people into the gate and I’m on the supp in the billing. My wife handles all that cuz she’s a genius when it comes to that stuff. Gotta know who you are.  Brett Gilliland: Know the lane you wanna play in. Right? And so when, when you’re talking to your players, your clients, and, and I, again, I would look at this for me, talking to my wealth management clients or, uh, somebody in sales talking to their client, how much time are you spending talking versus asking great questions? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Um, well that’s, so, um, it’s a, it’s a great question because I’m a very active coach when it comes to coaching in the performance. Um, I, I use the example, and this sounds really bad to say this, but it’s like if I went to my doctor and I said, Hey, I got some sinus congestion. And I feel like I’m running a low grade temperature. He doesn’t need to do a comprehensive, uh, review of systems to know that that’s the standard that’s coming in, right? Yeah. And so he gonna gimme an antibiotic, probably gimme a shot to clear it up or whatever. Like he sees 15 of them a day. The, the patterns of struggle are so consistent with those people. The difference is, is that you don’t see what other people struggle with. You never ask a psychologist, oh my God, I pro you’ve probably never heard this before. Trust me… Brett Gilliland: I’ve heard it all.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: …heard it. Don’t care either. And what I mean by that is I don’t hold that and carry it and go, ah, Bhrett, I mean this is it. I mean, like you, you learn very quickly to to, to do the, the I switch like boom, gone like the men in Black Marie. Yeah. So I hold on to that and remember that. But I do see consistencies. Now that being said, the pathway by which we get there to help it is based on a, a like what I call a, what we call in science. But I applied as a bio psychosocial approach. You have biological things that you do in your game in sport and life that well you are, you know, if you were in the military for 20 years and my dad was, I can guarantee you, you will wake up before your alarm goes off at five o’clock in the morning. I’ve, I’ve met very few career military people who still don’t get up early. It’s just they don’t need an alarm.  Brett Gilliland: It’s in their DNA. Yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: DNA. Um, if, if I’m working with a person who, both parents are engineers, more than likely their DNA is gonna have a problem solving style that is unique to that family. So I’m gonna go through the biological understandings of who they are. I’m gonna go through their psychological understandings. What are their motivations? What are their beliefs? What are their barriers? What are their fears, their insecurities? What are their underlying belief systems that may be need to be challenged? And I’m collecting that over time. Um, and then how do they socially interact with people? Who do they value? Who do they trust? Are they coachable? Um, this is any client I work with, whether it’s business or life, and I’m building a model in my mind. Uh, what we call in psychology of formulation, we’re like, it’s no different than when you’re looking at somebody’s wealth portfolio. You’re looking at risks, barriers, you know, you’re looking at things that are important. Like, you know, I tell my financial guide, like, I need short-term motivators. I need to know that I’m going on a trip soon. because I will, I will pay for that in short order. Like I gotta have some, I gotta have a carrot. Yeah. Putting money away doesn’t get me excited. Like, I’ve gotta have some guy enjoy it. He’s like, absolutely. Like, and so you know it, it’s knowing those bases that’s critical to understand how’s the formula that we’re gonna impart, the dangers that they wanna make. So players come in, they usually come me, cuz there’s an issue at hand. Very rarely does a player come to me and say, I am on top of the world and I want some help. And I’m like, what do you want? I don’t know, I just need to put somebody on my team. I’m like, are you sure that’s what you want do? Is that what you wanna do? Is that what people are telling you what you wanna do? And once you understand what they want and you can kind of knock away the layers, then you can get to what the core of the issue that they want help on. And then after that, I’m just pumping them. And so I’ll touch base with players and say, how we doing? Good. Damn. Real good. All right, good. What did we learn? What did we experience? And I’m just trying to guide ’em and, and you know, players come in and they leave you after a while and then they’re back and that’s part of it. Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah, that’s, uh, it’s, it’s fascinating to me because I also wonder, they don’t know what they don’t know, right? They don’t have your brain, they don’t have your ex experience, they don’t have your wisdom and knowledge. And so, you know, if I’m a guy again in the boardroom or walking down the 18th hole and I gotta get my mind right, I mean, how much of it is coaching to the point of, all right man, listen, you need to learn to breathe, you need to learn to execute. And like, these are the five things, whatever it is, right? These are the things that you need to do. I mean, I’m assuming there’s a lot of telling still. Is that correct? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Well, yeah, you know it, it’s interesting, right? Because, so I’ve got one player on tour who’s very emotional. I’ve got a couple on tour that are very emotional. And everyone’s like, you gotta change. I’m like, why would I change ’em? Greatest player we ever have. Tiger Woods is emotional. Like, why would, I mean, you know, uh, if, if you’re, you know, what, what is it that you can do in that moment? And you know, what is what, what makes you tick? Right? When, when it’s when mind is racing under pressure. Because as we go up higher at the mountain of success, the mind gets more and more cluttered and flustered. And confidence is minimal. Where are you gonna go? Where are you gonna anchor? And if you’re really sitting there trying to think of 14 things, we’re in trouble. Yeah, okay. We’ve gotta get, it’s like, you know, you’ve gotta make a, you gotta make a putt on the 18th hole to break 80 or shoot under par or whatever. It’s for the average golfer. And we assume that PJ Tour players never missed those? Well, the, the stats on tour, uh, eight footer is a 50 50 make rate.  Brett Gilliland: Wow, okay. Makes me feel better.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Yeah. PJ Tourer players make 80% of their money in five events a year. It’s the 80 20 rule. Okay. We think they’re great every week. There are weeks that Patrick Cantley’s in the field that people don’t even know because he didn’t make the cut. Now, he may have been working on something like, I don’t like players when they make, when they play their first event of the year to have any expectations because they’ve done all this work, but then they go out in the competitive environment, competition, not famous training, and in golf, true business, sports, everything. We practice all day long giving a talk. I put you up on stage with somebody. It gets real now. Yeah. All right. It, it, it, you can’t mimic it. Golf makes it even harder because there’s absolutely nothing we can do to mimic it. If you and I are playing a match and we’re gonna say, Hey, this is gonna be, this is gonna be the same as what we’re doing next week. No, it’s not. No, it’s not. Not even close. Like, you know, and so I’m, I’m gonna use this example and anybody, I’m not trying to offend anybody when I say this cuz I, I’ve never been there, but it would be the equivalent of training somebody for war. Hey, we’re gonna play with rubber bullets and at the end of the day, I know I’m going home. Brett Gilliland: Right. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: If I, we go overseas and we’re in a competitive environment. Like I had a buddy of mine who was a Navy Seal and his first deployment, they didn’t tell him that they, um, when they landed in, I think in I in Iraq is where he went. That they do a combat landing, which is essentially a controlled dive. And then they land real quick. He thought they were under attack, and so when they landed, the older guy said, Hey, we’re gonna go get all this other stuff. Y’all established the base, like whatever he said, me and the other new guy established and we’re in complete combat pose, look, cuz we thought the wire was the fence that we were seeing. He goes, we were in the middle of the base. The guys come back and they are laughing their tails off because they’re like, what are you doing? And he goes, we didn’t know where we were. We thought we were in the middle of a combat zone. That’s the wire, that’s the fence that protects the runway. That’s how it changes things. Brett Gilliland: It gets real. It gets real, real fast, doesn’t it? What, what are the things that you, you personally do? Like if I followed you around with a camera, what am I finding the no miss items that, that you’re doing daily, day in and day out.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: You’re not, you’re gonna be very underwhelmed by what I do. Seriously. Like you’re gonna think that’s all you do. My wife says you’re just full of crap. I mean, you just make up things and go, it’s not true. I’m gonna, let’s say if I go walk nine holes with a player on tour, on a practice round, like I’ll be at Scottsdale next week, we’re gonna go out and I’ll walk turtles. What am I gonna tell them? Like, what am I gonna tell? I’ve never played on a PJ Tour event, right? Right. What am I gonna tell them? What I’m gonna do is say, tell me what your experience and feeling. How’s the communication with you and caddy? And probably in that nine hole walk, there might be a hole or two that I’m really working, like I’m grinding something. Now, if they have their swing coach, they’re gonna probably be more involved in that and whatever. And I’m gonna be, I kind of look at myself as the sharpener of the sword. I’m gonna come in at the very end, once they get it and they understand how to use it, now my job is to get ’em in that spot before they tee off in a competitive round. I just stand there, talk to ’em, whatever, like, what am I gonna do? Giving some new information. Like, hey, right. Breathe through your eyelids now that’s hype up. Let’s get hype, man. Let’s go, let’s let’s eat steel. They’re gonna be look at me and go like, you weren’t here last week when I came in fifth. Right? Um, and so my thing is, and, and it comes from my coaching college, he was always like, if you’re not there every week, don’t, don’t act, don’t make it about you. So there’s another person that reinforces my approach, right? Um, he’s like, if, if the catcher runs out to talk to the pitcher before the game and does it at a big game, why didn’t we do it against the midweek game last week? Like, oh, because it got harder. So when I’m there, I’m, I’m kind of pulling back and I’m just kind of tapping and moving. Like my, my sessions with like the college athletes, maybe 20 to 20 minutes max. Once I’ve established a relationship with them, they come in and like, Hey, this is what I’m going through. All right. What can I do to help you? Good? Yep. Got it. What we need.  Brett Gilliland: Hmm. Next .  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: I mean, and, and the reason for that is they’ve got so many things. There’s a brilliant video I use all the time, and it’s a video from Smarter Every Day, which is a v uh, vlog cast. The guy who used to work for NASA, he’s an engineer. And then he started vlogging. And it’s so good. So good. And NASA and the Navy Smarter Every Day. Brilliant. I mean, you’ll go down dark holes. It’s such a brilliant education. Like the one that he did on the nuclear submarine underneath the ice pack where he was embedded with him was absolutely must watch television. And I’m a little bit of a nerd when it comes to stuff like this, but there’s, he has, where he goes to the marine based training in Hawaii where they’re training how to successfully survive a helicopter crash underwater. Right. And it’s such an example for what athletes are going through, right? They’re getting flooded with information. So I don’t know about you, but if, if I’m on a Chinook or whatever those are that you sit on the site and it’s going underwater, I’m gonna try to get outta that thing as absolute fast as I can. Yep. And they’re like the worst thing that you can do because you, you’re upside down, you lose orientation, you’re in the dark, the water’s coming in, it’s filling up your sinuses and you, you’re lost in ground. They teach ’em to hold onto their seat and they call it the rodeo grip and to hold on. And then find the oxygen. Take the oxygen, stay in your seat because it’s an orientation place. I use that all the time for my athletes. Like when you’re in that moment, chaos is happening all around you, you and I, you know, you go into a big meeting, you, you get a call in wealth management to go in. Somebody you’ve been waiting for for a year, you’ve been working at your work. You finally get that meeting and it’s like, I wanna do everything I have. Okay, go out. Right? You’ve got to know, you’ve gotta have a system. And so what’s your anchor? What’s your process like? I’m gonna take notes. I’m gonna ask these six. These are my go-to questions for tour players. It’s like, Hey look, we’re gonna use a little bit of a trigger. We’re gonna pull on the glove as a reminder. We’re in this moment. We’re not gonna be in a hurry to screw up , we’re going go through our process. We’re gonna verbalize the shot we want to hit and we’re gonna compete. All right, so what you have to do, that’s a lot of what’s teaching him is like, Hey, look what we’re going through this process is chaos wants you to go faster once you hurry up and get out of the trouble. And competition’s chaos.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And then it is so different than what the mine would think. Right. I mean the, especially the, the rodeo hold, I mean that is completely backwards to what we would think, but when you say it the way you said it, it’s so damn true. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Yeah. Think about, yeah, like let’s, let’s do college football for a minute. Teams are watching college football team and they got a young quarterback and they’re like, God, this guy sucks. He can’t throw, I mean, whatever. And the coach goes up on the press conference and is talking, Yeah, it’s our best option. And you know, player coaches get upset. Like being an LSU alum, we had this report from less miles for like six years. Yeah. And then they would the ball eight times and it looked like a fifth grade education, you know, fifth grade, middle school football game. Okay. They all offensive structures. But the point was he never prepared his kids to transfer from competition, from practice competition. They never built things in there that were anchoring them for their confidence to grow. You watch Brilliant Play callers, they build and they structure and they ladder up over time. Great offensive coordinators script the first 10 to 12 play calls of a quarter or a half. They’re doing that because they’re working in systems. Fans are like, oh my God, there’s the post is wide open. It’s like that guy coming outta the gate, unless he’s played a lot, he doesn’t have that. He does have the ability, but he doesn’t have the application. We gotta help him get there. And, and so great leaders and coaches can educate on that to the team. Like, this is how we’re gonna build somebody into that process. But that’s like chaos, right? It’s like nobody wins a major unless they’ve been up near the lead a lot in majors. I mean, really if you look back, I mean everyone, somebody slips through the talent gap is so small on the PGA tour right now, right? Um, in the power five schools, in the top 15 schools of college football, the talent gap is so tight that it’s the separators that matter. It’s not hype, it’s understanding. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So let’s go back to that when you talked about the pulling on the glove and, and that, I’m fascinated by that type of stuff. So like, Walk us through that. So I, I’m a player on tour. I’m, I’m trying to get my game face on and maybe I’ve, you know, just made boogie, like, what is that process like? And, and how do we then snap into like, okay, I even, one, I gotta remember that I gotta pull the glove, right? But h how do I do that? What’s that process like to get me there?  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Well, I, I think you, you’ve gotta understand that when you’re out in the competitive environment, I’m gonna try to give ’em wanting to focus on, that’s it. Okay. One thing when we got (inaudible) they got so many other thoughts going in. I mean, we can’t even remember what our friends order is when they go to Starbucks, right? And especially when it’s four, four squirts and a pump and a extra . Just, okay, give it to me. Brett Gilliland: Just get a coffee.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Like, come on, just buy coffee. I’ll get you the stuff on the side. Um, so, you know, in those environments, we’ll, we’ll have a little bit of a review. And the PJ tour, they have a caddy, and their caddy has to be, that’s their co-pilot. That’s their navigator. And they’re the ones that have to be good. Now, what happens is a lot of times when approach are high, everybody gets quiet and, and you can watch this, you can see the ca and they get quiet. They, they don’t know what to say because let’s be honest, being a caddy is a brutally difficult job. They gotta know what to say at the right time and not have any negative implications of it. I mean, that’s the honest to God truth. Brett Gilliland: Right? And challenge somebody knowing your job, that they’re, they’re your boss, right? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Draw the line, man. At that point, I’m gonna challenge ’em. This is gonna do it. But I, I try to tell ’em that like, this is when you have mistakes. This is how mistakes compound. It’s not the actual experience of a mistake. That’s a problem. Like if you’re gonna play, you’re gonna hit bad shots. You’re gonna fumble, you’re gonna have turbulence. What happens when turbulence happens? And so, you know, we look at statistics and we understand, and then we, you know, the player may not realize that in the moment the caddy can, and the caddy will take notes. And so, you know, we’re looking at scenarios. I, I want them to be the best reporter of their experiences so that we can learn from em’. Wisdom is the greatest educator we have. Experience is the greatest educator we have at creates wisdom. It’s best because the wisest people, like if you were to go into a business conference, people are gonna want to go see Warren Buffet. And it’s because he’s had, he’s seen things, he’s been there. Is he always right? No. Now he has better margins to fail. But the, the fact is, we like, now here’s the mistake, right? The 21 year old kid that’s coming outta school is wrong. He might not be, but if you’re gonna fly or have a surgeon, do you, I mean, You know, surgeons are trained in residency to go through a whole lot of things. I mean, they’re doing thousands, thousands of hours, but they’re still somebody who’s proficient, who’s older, who’s seen this. It’s like, I’ve seen this complication 10 times. It’s like, I got it.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Again, in real world experience too, so, so how do we manage in today’s crazy world of nonstop notifications and bad news and this and that? I mean, how do we manage fear and anxiety in today’s world?  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Well, I think, let’s go back to the organizational aspect of stuff. First of all, we have to have an organized mind in order to compete, and that allows us to be emotionally disciplined, okay? When we’re emotionally disciplined, not reactionary to everything that’s happening. When we’re undisciplined, our emotions guide us to our next, uh, behavior. So feelings, thoughts, feelings, actions are all interconnected, right? Um, actions very rarely happen in a vacuum, and thoughts and feelings very happen. I mean, they happen. Now, I want people to understand that thought is not nothing more than the brain’s way of processing information and identifying threat, okay? So negative thoughts are, they’re not predicting anything. They’re just saying there could be a trouble on the horizon. That’s all. But what happens is, is that if we don’t have an organized mind and we experience a negative thought, a fear of doubt, whatever we experience trouble, then what happens is we emotionally, we’re undisciplined and it leads us to look for validation, prove trust, all those things, right? And then those just cascade, and our behaviors follow, which are usually re protective, restrictive. And we’re trying to, you know, hold, serve a little bit. If we’re organized every day in the way we do things. And I think that we should do five things every day. We should do administrative tasks, which are things that are between now and the next three to four weeks. I think we need to do developmental tasks, tasks, which are things for the next three weeks to three months, six months out, some planning. We need to do some training every day. Content development, read book, you know, read. I don’t want you to send a picture of all the books you’ve read. I want to show, I want you to show me a book that changed your life. Right. That impacted you. Like, I, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t want people to read books just to say they’ve read ’em. I want somebody to say, man, I just, I digested this book and I got this one piece out of it. Yeah. Um, I want people to do execution tasks every day. Like if you’re, you know, if you’re not practicing and training the way that you close, then you can’t close. Yep. Right. I love it. People in business, I, I build relationships. Okay, good. relationships without an agenda are just relationships. Yep. Everybody’s in a relationship to have an outcome. You better know how to transition it. The last thing is we’ve gotta have a practice on how do we summarize and review and journal. Okay. So at the end of the day, we sit down and say, here’s what happened. Here’s how it went. I planned out my day. I execute. Here were some, you know, oh my God. I had a phone call at 11, like my, my youngest daughter’s finishing up at Auburn. She’s got a puppy. She just had surgery. Of course. Me and his dad said, why did we get a puppy before we had surgery? The cutest thing in the world. She’s at school. Her dog sitter didn’t show up this morning. So my wife was about to drive to Auburn. Okay. Of course, we wake up to that firestorm this morning. At the end of the day, it’s no big deal. Right, right. And it’s a great dog, but, but it’s, it, it undisciplined. It makes me angry cause I’m like, nobody listened to me when I said, don’t get this dog right now. Even though I think it’s dog rocks. Okay. It’s the sweetest thing in the world. Okay. But it’s still a puppy, right? Yeah. It still needs attention and stimulation. Right. Can’t go to daycare yet. And, um, and so, you know, the undisciplined me was like, nobody ever listens to me. Like that’s the cascade of thoughts, right? Like, you know, I work hard and, you know, those are the things, right? The main me, um, the discipline mind is, Hey, this is a short term barrier. Help him through it. It doesn’t impact you, your wife. My wife doesn’t need to go down there. We developed a solution. Okay, we’ll help get her in the spot. It’s like, no big deal. Like really in the grand scheme of things, it’s no big deal. It’s no big deal. Brett Gilliland: How does that, sorry to interrupt you. How does that, how do you do that though? When the mi the mad mind, there’s, nobody’s listening to me. I’m, you know, I’m teaching people over the world. I’m this, I’m that. Like, how do you then say, okay, let’s, let’s get outta that brain thought and get into the what’s normal and not… Dr. Bhrett McCabe: You have to look at it. Awareness is critical, right? The, the mistake that our brain makes is that we make judgements. We make, we mind makes validation and judgment as assumptions. Yeah. It, it tries to take a picture in evaluating and it does it because if you think about the protective mechanism of the mind, it’s identifying risks internally and all the time. And it’s, if you look at it and say, wait a minute here, um, that’s not helping me right now. There’s a time to analyze and there’s a time to execute. Let me get back to what I need to do. Okay. So the first step’s, just simply having awareness to it, that I’m doing it. You can’t be like, I love the idea of positive thinking. It’s great. Okay. There are times that I’ve got pretty crappy thinking. And I know that sometimes that crappy thinking leads me to be a bad spot. So I don’t chastise myself about being in a perspective, whatever. I’m like, Hey look, this is not the best. It’s not judgmental. Hey, is there a better way I could do this? So it’s simply having the awareness. It’s not the problem that it’s there. It’s how long did we allow the damage to happen. That I think where people make a mistake is that they’re like, I cannot believe that I did that. It’s like, Hey, I got angry. Or you know what? I got nervous. That’s okay. I think that’s cool. Jam on, man. You know, the other thing too is, you know, this, this, this stuff’s hard because we don’t have thought bubbles above other people’s heads that we can see what you are dealing with. Every one of us puts on a face and that mask is powerful and that mask is, um, That mask is predicting what we want us to be. Thomas Merton, who is a, a philosophical priest, uh, and I did a podcast with Wright Thompson, who’s one I think the finest writer in all sports that got that bourbon voice. If you watch the masters, he’s the guy that does the little voiceovers in the beginning.  Brett Gilliland: Oh yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Okay. So Wright is brilliant. He’s a phenomenal writer and can get in the human psyche. He’s so clear, and he said Thomas Merton, the philosopher, said, we all wear a mask, but it’s the mask that eats the face that we start embodying the mask. I’m like, God, that’s so good, ,right? We’re not vulnerable human beings. So what happens? We see what we see in other people is we see other people’s. We reflect, we connect to somebody else’s, strength because it usually matches our insecurities. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, that’s strong.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Because if I look at somebody and I’m like, man, I like, I know what I’m good at. I hate exercise. I hate that stuff. I did it when I played. I don’t, you know, I don’t, I don’t work out a lot. I need to, I should, I know, um, I work, I mean, I don’t even know how many hours are in a, a week. Um, I work way too many hours. I’m in the, over the a hundred hour week. Okay. Yeah. Um, and, and so for me to get up at or to go work, like, I got home last night at eight o’clock, like I left at five or day and I got home at eight. And what nonstop at to go exercise during the day, like that when I had a 20 minute lunch, I’m not gonna do it, like. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Right.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: So, so I’ve just eventually have come to a spot where like, you know what? Can’t get mad at myself for not doing it. I mean, like, I, I watch people go running down the road and I’m like, God, I wish I could do that. Like, that’s really cool. And I’m like, well, I can make better, better, you know, I could eat better. Oh, when you’re exhausted. Not into it tonight, but you know when you’re exhausted, your willpower drops. Because willpower’s a resource. It’s not a trait. Um, and by the way, parents, if you’re listening to this, your kid who doesn’t seem to really want it at 14 hasn’t learned to want it, don’t force it on ’em. Like let them figure it out and see if it’s something that they truly like. Like try to make ’em listen to your music. They don’t connect to it. Right. Like I of Nirvana and Guns N’ Roses and stuff like that, cause it reminds me of college. Okay. Right. You give that to people. Like Yeah, that’s awesome. Riff right there, man. But they’re listening to other things that relate to ’em now. Right. Okay. Yeah. So it doesn’t seem like they’re really motivated. It’s like, chill. Okay. They’ll find them. But that’s the same thing as willpower comes in and all sudden, well, I’ll just get a, you know, I’ll just run to McDonald’s real quick. Eight minutes to eat right. And that’s what happened. Yep. Okay. So I think we’re so judgmental on ourselves instead of really seeing the suffering that we’re all going through. And I don’t mean suffering is a bad thing. Suffering is, suffering is fine. And, and yeah, there are, and I’m sure I’ll get messages of people saying, Hey, you know, I’ll help you out. I was like, good luck. Okay. I mean, I don’t mean that in a bad way. I just, just, it’s not my thing. Like I need to I should. I went to my doctor, who’s my buddy, and I’m like, Hey, blood, draw all my blood. Show me why I need to work out and calls me and goes, yeah, everything’s normal. I was like, dammit. But I think because I respect the living hell outta of people who can do that, like I don’t have that discipline because they’re not, that’s not my thing. Yeah. Okay. I’ll work around the clock to have a week long vacation though. Yeah, a hundred percent. Like I dig that like going on a trip, seeing part of the world that I really enjoy. Like I like that. I don’t do a lot of reading at night. Like I love to read . I love to listen to books, but it’s not the same. I love to read. I didn’t, I hated reading in school cause I had to, but I love to read, but I don’t come home at night and go, I’m gonna turn off and read. My mind, I, I know my risks are so to your question is like, I know where my, my, I can get very down very quickly. I can get very anxious very quickly too because I feel like I’m pulled all the time so I have to know what my protection is. And so something that is taking more energy to do it wears out an empty tank pretty quickly. Yeah. Now I’m not saying this to people to say, man, I’m worried about you. Don’t be like, this is the life I chose and this is what I dig. I love this stuff. Yeah. Okay. When somebody else is like, somebody else is like, you know what I love to do? Like I have a friend of mine’s, like, I love to go for a run. I’m like, how do you do that? He’s like, I grew up as a runner. I’m a competitive distance runner. It, I get out there an hour and a half run. And I’m like hour and a half, but is on the top of his game. Okay. But that’s his release. He doesn’t play golf, he doesn’t go to sporting events, he doesn’t travel. He builds businesses and running for him is almost like a…  Brett Gilliland: It’s his outlet.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: It’s his endorphin outlet. Yeah. Right. He’s like, I look in the mirror and I know I’ve won the day. And I’m like, God, I wish I could do that. And, and that’s the thing is we’re so judgmental on ourselves to see the Wonder (inaudible), you know, self-esteem that in, in the American culture, what we do is we, we cover it with those masks. So I bought G Wagon. Okay, great. Um, like I have a, my, my buddy who’s a doctor drives a G wagon, and I said, why do you buy that? He goes, because I bought somebody else’s mistake. And I’m like, what do you mean? He goes, I buy ’em used. A person drove it for eight months, couldn’t afford it, had to sell it. He goes, I won. Like, that’s how he sees it . And I’m like, yes. Oh my God. Awesome. Like, yeah, like awesome. Like I don’t have a beach house. I don’t know if I ever want one. Yeah. I love people who have ’em. The reason I’m not home enough. So for me to think I’ve gotta go somewhere else. If I get to be a full-time writer. Yeah. I want one, why? Cause that’s where I’m going to write.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Like, I don’t go to sporting events. I don’t, I I work at ’em. Those going into a sporting event of a team I work with, that’s not fun. You know, and so I, I, I bring all this up, not knocking anybody else who does all that. Like, you gotta know what feeds you. Like if you wanna put mayonnaise on your french fries, do it. Why’s you not infringing on the rights of another human being, do it. But the point is, is that we have to know who we are. And so we see the insecurities and, and you know, I look at somebody and I’m like, man, you know, like, see somebody and like, man, they’re, they look fit and good. That’s usually I’m at. I see that like I’m, my mind is attracted to that because I don’t feel that. So instead of chasing that emotional and discipline of like, man, I feel so crappy about myself in such a player, like I’m a high performance psychologist, should be fit right where my goes, I don’t care. You’re not my trainer.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: I mean he’s like, I want you to do it for your health, but he’s like, you wanna go get some wings tonight? And I’m like, you’re the biggest ass. He’s like, he goes, I know you’re there when I pick up the phone.  Brett Gilliland: Right? Yeah. You’re not his, you’re not his fitness trainer, so he doesn’t care.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Yeah. And I know I should, you know, like that’s, yeah. Those are the things. But what I, the reason I’m bringing this up in disclosure is so people can understand that we all suffer from stuff. Yeah. Like I, I remember years ago, Go, you know, you go into like an old town main street, right? And they’d have this scene, and this scene would be this like living room setup. And back in the sixties they’d have models that would sit in there and everybody would look happy, right? And everybody was smiling, which he did know is that maybe the husband and a wife couldn’t communicate. The kids were miserable and they’re full of anxiety. What we project is not often what’s behind the scenes. I want people to realize that we’re all struggling with something. I, I, there’s a, a brilliant, brilliant book by Robert Wright called Why Buddhism is True. And as I’m advocating for Buddhism, um, Buddhist thought is very brilliant. It’s very stoic. The way of thinking is insane. But what he is saying is that, you know, social comparison is the core of the human experience because it’s our evaluation on the evolutionary leader. It’s the way we evaluate. We don’t, we don’t connect to people who are lesser than us, in theory, in social status, cuz they’re not good reproducible candidates. So when you think about it from a genetic stance, we suffer for a reason. Nobody will ever reach full content. You ever met a, I mean, you do. Well, have you ever met a truly content multimillionaire?  Brett Gilliland: No. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Does anybody ever come to you… Brett Gilliland: Nothing’s ever good enough. Right? It’s like when, when’s it ever enough? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Yeah. Oh, the market’s gonna change, or, yeah. Well, fear based, oh my God, it’s gonna be bad. Or, Hey, I’d like to, I’d like to pay for my grandkids house. So I wanna like, we do that cause it makes us feel good. And so I, I say all this cuz that suffering is norm. Like we have angst. I mean, you know, there are times that we got real crappy thinking going on and instead of judging ourselves, just look at it. Say, you know what, dude, I’m in a, I’m in a tough spot right now mentally. Yeah. Like, I’m okay. It’s okay. And I know where I need to go. Like if I’m struggling, um, I need to have control. Of my, of my mind a little bit, and I’m like, need to go to the coffee shop. I need to go do some writing. That’s very cathartic to me. Um, going out for a nice dinner and having a drink with my wife, that’s usually relaxation of getting away. That’s not, I’m not gonna say, Ooh, I want to go do that. Yeah. Um, golf course, I enjoy it, but if I go out during the week and sneak away, I’m, I’m a nervous wreck. This past year, year, my guys went back to back on the PJ Tour and, uh, I don’t, I mean, I can say who they were cause they had mentioned me in the media. Sam Birds won the Colonial next week. Billy Hors won the memorial that week. I was down at the coast, I was down at Rosemary Beach all week. I didn’t go to either event and I would be an absolute nervous wreck that week. And my wife’s like, and I’m like, well, they don’t need, you know, I don’t wanna lose ’em. I love the guys. They’re amazing human being, you know, like I’m going through all that right in my head. And, um, we we’re talking about it and we’re, you know, whatever. And I’m like, um, but it was such a powerless position to be in and yet I was so proud of them. Yeah. And we had conversations and all, and I’m like, and I’m sitting there, I’m like, I had to like, going to Maui, we go to Maui every year for the Tournament of Champions is a winning event. You know, you win on the tour, you’re, you’re there the next year. And we go because my wife’s tonight’s anniversaries during that time. So it’s really there on vacation. And we just happen to check on the guys at the tournament. They don’t really care that year. And I’m a nervous wreck on the beach because when you wake up Maui, it’s already noon here. Yes. And it’s, you’ve got six hours of messages. Now January 3rd, how many people are really stressed? But that’s, and so I don’t relax and Maui till like one o’clock cuz now it’s the end of the day. And, but I love going, but I, I don’t do good getting away. I love vacations, but I, I don’t like, we’re going skiing next two weeks. I can guarantee you I’ll be checking my phone the entire time I’m on the mountain. You know, and so just insight not having, yeah.  Brett Gilliland: No, and I think that’s, but that’s, again, that’s why you’re good at what you’re doing Right. And getting to the level you’re at. And it’s, again, knowing your role, knowing the lane you play in, and, and that’s what makes your world work. And it may not work for the next cat, which is kind of what you started with. Know, know what works for you and, and, and be okay with it. Because I know for me personally, there was things, oh, I know I need to do this. And if I didn’t do it, then I’m, you know, kicking my own ass for a while until I finally had this aha moment of like, you know what dude, you’ve done okay.  Like, if this works for you, it doesn’t mean that it’s it that you have to do this other thing. You just don’t.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Yeah. You know, I had a, I had a guy in field one time tell me, he is like a lot of my colleagues do their business on the golf course. And he said, I don’t like to do that. I said, why not? He goes, because I don’t enjoy playing with people I don’t enjoy playing with. Brett Gilliland: Hmm.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: And I was like, okay. He goes, but you know, other people said, take him on the golf course cuz you know, he loves to play golf. He’s a hell of a player. He’s like, I don’t enjoy it, like.  Brett Gilliland: I don’t wanna do that.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: I don’t wanna, he knows, I like to do it a different way. Like I always laugh. Right, right. There are certain psychological indicators that we follow. Like you go into a doctor’s office, you want it to be clean, nice, well organized. The, they walk out in a white coat. You go in a dentist’s office, there’s always a, um, a fish tank for calming for the most part. Music playing in the background, open doors. Financial planners. Today’s world wearing a suit versus what you’re wearing. I’d much rather connect to somebody wearing what you’re wearing.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Okay. But maybe people who are 60 or 70. They want the person in the Merrill Lynch suit.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Because that’s how they grew, you know? So you gotta know that, right? You gotta know what your clients want and you gotta know it’s okay. Like, I think that’s so cool. It’s like coaches, like I, when I first started this, I was trying to be, what other people were I It inspired by then I’d be like, I gotta wear this, I gotta wear that. I gotta, and then I was like, if I wear shorts every day, do people care? Nah. Brett Gilliland: Eh, it’s funny you say that, you know, cause I, I wore a suit from, you know, God, the first 15 years of my career, it felt like, man, first 12 years for sure of my career. You know, and then it’s like you change and then it’s like, you know, you’re wearing this. It’s like, but this is who I am. I, I don’t, I feel like a, I feel weird in a suit and it just doesn’t feel genuine. And, and so yeah, you’re right. And it, it, you gotta work with it and your client’s gotta be okay with it. And that’s, that’s fine. That’s totally fine. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: It’s funny to watch how cultural, how social media and streaming has changed dynamics. Cuz like on ESPN now hoodies and which, um, but 10 years ago we’ve been like, oh my God, that person’s not wearing a tie.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Now they’re wearing a hoodie with a sport coat. I’m like, what in the hell? Like, what’s going on right now?  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Great. My daughter said, you can’t wear that. You’re not fit enough.  Brett Gilliland: You’re like, but it looks cool on that dude. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: It does. And I’m like, man, that looks good. Or t or tennis shoes, you know? And, and my daughter’s boyfriend, uh, and he was like, Hey Bhrett, when you go speak to teams, what do you wear? And I’m like, I wear this. He goes, man, your shoe game is terrible. Like, I love Ben because his shoe game is great, right? And, um, and, but it’s like, he goes, this is the first thing that players in college look at. Yep. I’m like, whoa. I said, what about the sport coat? He goes, I don’t care about the sport coat , what’s your shoe game? Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: And he’s like, that means you’re connecting to us, and if you really care about shoes, it matters. Okay. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s funny.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: And I know, and I’m like, interesting. Like, you know what, what does, you know, what, what do people want? And when you started thinking about it, it’s like, why is, why is so this past week or so on the social media realm, Influencers in golf have been picked up by about every major club manufacturer for a lot of money. They’re spending significantly more funny on influencers than they are in the PJ Tour players. Why? Because a kid puts up a video, he gets 600,000 likes. Final round of a PJ Tour gets 200,000 views.  Brett Gilliland: Wow.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: The market’s moving. It’s changing quick, isn’t it? Scottsdale still gets a huge view, but stuff like that. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So where do our listeners find more of you? Bhrett. Uh, obviously I think it’s a, a great, uh, I’m asking you the question, but here I’m saying it. Go, go to Instagram. That’s where I, that’s where I follow you. Phenomenal stuff. Where do our listeners find more of you if they want to connect?  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Well, and I appreciate that. And, and you’ll know one thing, I’m, I am honest and I share my mind and sometimes I put my foot in my mouth, but it’s comes from passion. Um, there’s two things. One is if you go to any, any social media at Dr. Bhrett McCabe or my website’s, bhrettmccabe.com, there’s something that’s coming up that I’m really excited about starting mid-February, February 21st. We’re starting, we’re launching a weekly show called Mental Game Live. Mental Game Live is a one hour show that is done and streamed on YouTube. It’s completely free. It’s gonna break down the barriers. It’s identify the things that are happening in the game across all sports. Um, it’s a segmented show. It’ll be great. It’ll be resourced. You don’t have to watch it live cause it’ll be housed on YouTube. Um, I want people to understand in business life, school, sport, parenting, everything, but the mental game is accessible. It’s not mysterious, it’s not hype. It’s about knowing who you are. And so the Mental Game Live is coming. So anywhere you can find me, please do. I try to be active on everything. The only thing I’m not active on is Snapchat. Cause I, I just don’t get that. Um, I used to say forever, I was never gonna get involved in TikTok, TikTok Rocks. I know the Chinese (inaudible), but I mean it more people watch content and consume content there than any place. Brett Gilliland: It’s unbelievable.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: It’s unbelievable. And it’s good content. And I mean, look, you know, we can argue Facebook, we can argue Twitter, we can a, get, everything has its issues, right? Um, but get content out there. Share content, share it. Those are our libraries today. People ask me all the time, what’s a great kid to read? I’m like, TikTok.  Brett Gilliland: To like, what, what, what, what does happen?  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: No 14 old kids gonna sit down and read a book.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. No, no.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: So please join me. Brett Gilliland: Awesome. We’ll put all that stuff in the show notes. You’re, uh, the mind game, The Mental Game Live on YouTube. I can’t wait to watch that. That’s gonna be awesome. And, uh, when you’re down in Rosemary Beach, you’d probably see my here a little watercolor, you know, we’ll, we’ll connect down on 30 a. The greatest spot in America, in my humble opinion.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Where do you play? Brett Gilliland: Uh, when I’m down there? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Mm-hmm.  Brett Gilliland: Little place inland called Wind Swept Dunes. It’s actually the longest course in Florida from the tips. Now I don’t play from the tips when I go there, but that’s where we go. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: It’s, it’s windy as hell…  Brett Gilliland: Have you been there? Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Oh yeah.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Place is awesome. We love, we go on a guys trip every November, uh, down there. We’ve been going for about 10 years. And then when I go down there with my family, like we’ll be there in July, me and my boy, I got four boys, we’ll go down there and play it. And, uh, so it’s just awesome. We love it down there. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: It’s, it’s a great golf course. When the town I played at the hadn’t built the clubhouse yet. So they have a clubhouse now? Brett Gilliland: No, they do not. They still have like, I don’t even know what it is. It’s like this, almost like a double wide trailer, you know, it’s like you go in there and the lady’s in there, the same lady making her, uh, you know, chicken salad and you have a little sandwich, a little, uh, maybe a little sloppy joe even down there. And, uh, but you’re out there for the golf and the brotherhood. Dr. Bhrett McCabe: But the food’s incredible.  Brett Gilliland: It is. It is. Absolutely. Well man, hey, thanks so much for being with me, Bhrett. It’s been awesome. We’ll look forward to continue watching you on your journey and thanks for joining us on the Circuit of Success.  Dr. Bhrett McCabe: Thank you very much. Hope that was good. [/fusion_text][/fusion_builder_column][/fusion_builder_row][/fusion_builder_container]

Sharon Lechter brings her knowledge as a CPA (Certified Public Accountant) to discuss the importance of living in courage rather than fear, especially financially. She highlights the choices that each of us has with every dollar we receive and how those choices can negatively or positively affect a more significant outcome. The New York Times Bestselling Author of multiple publications shares her formula for a positive and motivating life, emphasizing stepping out of your comfort zone despite fear. What aspects of your life can you ask yourself, ‘Why not?’. https://youtu.be/XSM1X8lLo60 Brett Gilliland: Welcome to The Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got Sharon Lechter with me. Sharon, how you doing?  Sharon Lechter: I am fantastic, Brett. Thanks so much. Look forward to talking to you. Brett Gilliland: Oh, look forward to it. I’ve been looking forward to this interview for a while. You’re, uh, you’re gonna see me holding this book if you’re getting to watch this.  You’ve probably seen this a time or 4,000 times. And, uh, this is ‘Rich Dad Poor Dad’. Uh, you are the co-author with Robert Kiosaki on that, and it’s, it’s cool. I uh it’s, I, I read this again in 2022, so I, I wrote down, I’ve be for years, I write down when I read the book and, you know, can able to do the math of my age and stuff. And so I originally read this book in 2002 when I was 24 years old and I read it again last year in March when I was 44 years old. So it’s kind of crazy to think, uh, you know, the things you get from one book, uh, reading it as a 24 year old, and now as a 44 year old, you connect a little different with it. And so I reached out to you and I said, “Hey, I gotta have you on the podcast.” And you were kind enough to respond and here we are. So, uh, that being said, you’ve done that, uh, well, you’ve written tons of books and you’ve had five ti You’re a five Time New York Times bestseller, uh, on author, A Successful Entrepreneur, philanthropist. Um, cpa, you name it, you’ve been doing it. I’ll shut up now and, uh, let people talk to Sharon Lechter. So if you can, Sharon, tell us a little bit more about what’s made you the woman you are today.  Sharon Lechter: Well, thanks Brett. Yes. I, you know, when I first started, I lived in a very lower middle class house with my parents. We had a little house between my mom’s beauty shop and my dad’s used car lot and we owned rental properties. So I’ve been in real estate investing since I was 10. I had to go scrub out the bathrooms between tenants and we were orange groves, and I swear I would never be an entrepreneur. I saw my friends whose parents were CEOs of companies or military officers, and I said, that’s what I want. I, I wanna get, become a sophisticated professional. So I went to college, got my degree in accounting. I was one of the very first women in public accounting, um, in Atlanta, Georgia. Single CPA having fun in Atlanta at the ripe a, age old age of 25. I realized my parents were pretty smart cuz I was working incredible hours and not in control of my life. And I said, this is crazy. So I had the opportunity to. One of my clients invited me to go into a company he was buying out a bankruptcy actually to um, invest in a new company. It’s like, okay. So I went back to my condo and said pros and cons. Back then, it was before PCs. So the old yellow legal pad  Brett Gilliland: The old T chart. Sharon Lechter: That’s right, that’s right. And it didn’t help me a bit cuz I could argue both sides. Mobile rising career and public accounting versus the opportunity to own a piece of the rock. And so, um, I, my hand kind of took off across the top of the page and wrote, why not? And that really is still my mantra today. Why not do something different? Why not solve a problem, serve a need? Why not take the path less traveled? And, uh, I think in our society today, too many people ask question, why? Waiting for somebody to tell you what you should do. And why not comes from within. Why not do something that you know you need to do that, uh, can solve a problem or serve a need? So that’s really been my mantra. I left public accounting, met my husband, then I’ve never looked back. Started women’s magazines, talking children’s books, and then on to Richette, so. Brett Gilliland: Amazing. So when you think about that, if we can go back in time and, you know, that’s scary, I would assume, right? Cause one was, uh, assuming on the T chart we were talking about the, the left side, let’s call it the accounting side, had a guaranteed paycheck probably. Right? They had a check coming in every two weeks, and health insurance, probably all these things, whereas the one on the right side, it didn’t have any of that, I would assume. And so when, when you think about that Sharon Lechter, and you think about the person right now that’s struggling with that of, I wanna follow my dream and this passion, but man, there’s no guaranteed success there versus this every day, every two week check. What, what would you tell that person uh, right now? Sharon Lechter: Well, sometimes you have to close the door for other doors of opportunity to open. When I made that decision, it turned out to be the worst business decision of my life, Brett. But as Napoleon Hill says, “out of adversity comes a seat of an equal or greater opportunity.” Had I not made the decision to leave public accounting, I would never have met my husband, Mike Lechter, and we’ve been married 42 years, so my worst business decision became my best life decision. But if you’re in that position where you have to make a decision between something that’s safe and secure, you think it’s secure, ask yourself truly how secure it is versus something that is something new and new experience. And you know, again, ask yourself why not try something different? Cuz you know, there’re lots of reasons why not. If it’s not legal, don’t do it. But I think people we change is inevitable. And as, as the world has proven over and over again, the safe, secure job no longer exists. So are you doing what you, are you challenging yourself every day? Are you doing having new experiences? Are you looking for ways to expand your life, both in opportunity and in resources? and ask yourself that. Who’s in control? I mean, I happen to be a control freak, so that was an easy question for me at that point in time… Brett Gilliland: yeah… Sharon Lechter: …do I wanna be in control of my life or do I want somebody else in control of my life? Brett Gilliland: And do you think that you’ve always believed in yourself or was that a muscle that you’ve built over time?  Sharon Lechter: Yes and yes. Um, I was raised in a home where I was told I could do anything I wanted to. And if you imagine my age, I was many, many times the only woman in the room. Um, I started my career before they even had the term lasting. And we just knew that if we wanted to succeed, we had to work harder than men. But I never looked at it as a male versus female thing. And for me it’s um, you just make that decision to continue moving forward. That being said, there were many times when I was insecure, not sure what, what I was gonna do, afraid, fear, fearing of what was gonna happen, and um, but I would come back to it. You either win or you learn something, right? There’s no win lose, you win or you learn. And so I would act in spite of the fear. You know, courage is acting in spite of fear, not because of it, so.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, and again, back on those early days, I mean, what was the grind like, you know, you, you, you, yes. Now you’ve got all these different revenue sources and income, and I know you’re very open about talking about money, so, uh, that’s why I asked the question is, but what, what was it like when you didn’t have money and, and you didn’t, uh, have so many different revenue sources? What was it like back then?  Sharon Lechter: Well, you have to make choices, you know? Um, yeah, I started working when I was 15, and so the, the, my father and mother instilled those money habits into me really early on, and so I always lived within my means, um, and understood that I was very kind of alone in that process. A lot of my friends were getting into debt. And, but you have to make choices. Make choices that work within your budget, um, give you the opportunity to set money aside. And you know, today it’s even more important to pay attention to where the cash flow is going. With every dollar you receive, you have a choice. You can keep it and invest it and have it work for you, or you can spend it and it goes away. And so if more and more people understood that and made different choices, they’d be, be in a much different financial position.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. And what, what have you learned over the years from, obviously yourself? There’s lots of learning, but you know, I, I’ll just pick on, you know, Robert Kiasaki, obviously he’s had a, an immense amount of success, a along with you, and then you think of, I know you’ve advised, Or worked with now three different presidents, right? You have George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and Donald Trump before he was president. So we’re not talking politics here. I can’t stand talking politics, but when, when you think of those three people that made it to the most, you know, the highest level you could possibly make as being the president of the United States, what, what have you learned from people like that over the years that makes them different? Sharon Lechter: Well, I think, um, without a doubt, um, I, when I wrote ‘Three Feet From Gold’, which was my first book with the Napoleon Hill Foundation, I talk about the personal success equation. So let me frame it in within that because… Brett Gilliland: Perfect.  Sharon Lechter: …you have your passion and your talent. So you look at those three men and you can pretty much know what their passion, their talent was. Um, I had my passion for financial literacy. We’re not teaching kids about money in school, so it made me angry. That was my passion. My talent was my background in accounting, my background in publishing, and most of us stopped there. But true success in all of those individuals you just talked about, their success was through that power of association surrounding themselves with the right people. Surrounding themselves with people who are stronger, they are weak. Understanding how to get in front of, in the right rooms and then times a take action, right? Your action. How many times do we know what we’re supposed to do? We just don’t do it. And so take and being action takers. Every one of those people you mentioned are action takers. And the last one is faith and confidence. Having faith in yourself. I don’t think any of them had a lack of confidence in themselves, but many of us do. Alright. And so when I start mentoring people, I go through that formula, passion plus talent times association times action plus faith. And invariably, the areas that need the most work are association and faith. Most people don’t have the right people around them, or they’ve outgrown the people in their circle and they haven’t taken the step to expand their associations, and they don’t have enough confidence. They don’t think they’re good enough. They think, you know, they think the luck has passed them by and they go hand in hand when you have the right people around you. And you have a bad day, they won’t let you stay there. So do you have a mentor? Do you have somebody who’s pushing you in the right direction? Do you, are you hanging out with people who challenge you and want you to do better? If not, maybe you need to look at your associations and have the right guide. Because what happens is when we earn the wrong place, our confidence starts waning and that they go hand in hand.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I love that. So passion plus Talent times association. Plus… Sharon Lechter: Times action, Brett Gilliland: …times action.  Sharon Lechter: All of that together, plus faith and confidence in yourself.  Brett Gilliland: Yep.  Sharon Lechter: You, you can go to, um, personalsuccessequation.com . I have an ebook that helps take me through that formula for your own life.  Brett Gilliland: Okay.  Sharon Lechter: Giving you some suggestions, some thought provoking things, and it’s free, personalsuccessequation.com  Brett Gilliland: personalsuccessequation.com . All right. We will put that in the, in the link here in the show notes. Uh, but that, that’s, and you’re so right. I mean, the passion part  Sharon Lechter: is, um, you know, and then you said earlier your personal mantra, why not? I also, in my research saw that your mission is to, to play big again. And, and so when you think about that is you do have to know what your passions are. And you know, as you see on my mic here, maybe, maybe not. Brett Gilliland: But it’s, it talks about future greater than your past, right? And, um, that’s our mission. That’s our firm’s mission. That’s my mission, and it’s, it’s become my passion of helping others. That’s when time stops for me or, or speeds up, I guess, depending on how you look at it. But it’s like when you’re working in that passion field, time just stands still, doesn’t it? Sharon Lechter: Yeah. Well, I don’t, nothing that I ever do feels like work because it’s not… Brett Gilliland: Right.  Sharon Lechter: …drudgery, you think work is drudgery? Um, I do what I do because, um, it makes me feel, um, pur my purpose. I’m in purpose. When you are in purpose, it’s not work.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. What’s funny you say that I just, uh, was at lunch and going through getting my sandwich and the guy said, we, we had a bunch of snow here today and, and I’m in St. Louis on the Illinois. Bunch of snow. They canceled school yesterday. All this stuff. Or today. And he says, oh, you’re one of the unlucky ones that had to go to work. Huh? And I like, I kind of looked at him, I said, Nope. I said, I chose to go to work. I said, I love what I do. And it’s, you know, it makes you think as you kind of think about that comment. Oh, you’re, you’re one of the ones that had to go to work today. I mean, imagine feeling that, right? And, and there’s people driving down the road listening to this. Maybe right now they feel that same way. They’re driving to work. But how, how have you chosen to get to do the things that you want to do and then have made a career making money out of it? Sharon Lechter: Well, I love what you just said because I literally just wrote an article for a book yesterday where we were talking about the power of words. You have the choice and control over three things, your thoughts, your words, your actions, and instead of saying, I have to go to work, see, I get to go to work, right?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Sharon Lechter: One’s negative, one’s positive. So if we can control our thoughts and our words, we control our environment around us. And it’s really important for people to think about, you know, if you want to spend your day in drudgery, then you’re attracting all the negativity by using those negative words. I have to go to work. Um, if you can reframe your thoughts… so for instance, when it comes to money, you’re bringing up money. We can’t afford it. That’s negative. You close your mind, you wanna turn off the lights and get under the covers. It’s depressing. And instead of you, instead of saying, I can’t afford something, say, how can I afford something? Do you feel the difference? It open to triggers your entrepreneurial spirit, it opens your mind, and you. Your subconscious starts working towards how to solve that question and how, how to afford something that you want. And so the choice of your words are very, very important. Thoughts, words and actions. Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah. So the, the hints, the name of this podcast, the, uh, the Circuit of Success, one of the circuits, if you will, is action. I believe in your attitude, your belief system, ultimately the actions that you take, get the results that you want to have in your life, right? So attitude, actions, beliefs. Um, so I couldn’t agree more because so many people just think, oh, I’ll, I’ll write it down on a piece of paper, this great business plan, but they don’t take action, right? It stays in the top right drawer of your office desk or wherever, and they don’t take action. So when you think about taking action, like what does your day look like when you, you know, you wake up in the morning, do you pre-plan it? Do you plan it as you go? What’s that look like for you?  Sharon Lechter: Well, every day is slightly different. I know overall what my, um, long-term goals are, and I time block so that I can not have to worry about what’s going on. I have time set aside. So for instance, um, this morning I’m looking, I’m working on a new book, so I had time scheduled this morning that nothing else was happening except me accomplishing one, I need to chew on this new book. And so each of us has to think about how are, how are we going to accomplish what works best for you? And you have short-term goals, you have long-term goals, and then you have immediate action. What do, what can I get done first thing in the morning to make me feel better about myself? So it gives me the energy to keep going, you know, check, check off a few of those quick and easy things in the morning, and then start tackling the big ones.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So if I stole your phone and looked at your calendar, would I see that booked? Like, do you already know next Thursday or three Thursdays from now, what’s going on? Sharon Lechter: Um, pretty much, pretty much. I do a lot of time blocking and right now I’m in the midst, as I said, of a new book. So there’s a lot of, you know, a lot of, um, definite white space on my calendar that is for the book. And so it’s kind of like everybody else is Stay away. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think that’s true for most successful people. I mean, I know I look at my calendar, I know things that are going on four months from now, right? I mean, you just, you kind of just go ahead and, like you said, call it time blocking. Put it in there and on repeat. I think that’s important. And for you to know if you have staff, for your staff to know. I mean, it’s that communication almost without the communication is everybody knows what the calendar needs to look like, and then if we just show up and execute, we take action, do the things we need to do. That’s, that’s the recipe for success. Right. And so, um, I wanna go back a little bit to this book, the, the ‘Rich Dad, Poor Dad’, because, you know, this was, I would assume this was the one that that kind of started at all. Would, would you agree with that?  Sharon Lechter: Um, from a standpoint of the personal finance brand, yes. you know, came out with a game and, um, as we were, as I was helping Robert with the game, he, you know, he told me he wanted to charge $200 for it, and I said, that’s kind of pricey, because I was just helping him as a friend. And Yeah. Said maybe you need to write a brochure for the game that explains the philosophy that would encourage people to spend that much money. And that’s when he asked me to become a partner. And that brochure we wrote was ‘Rich Dad, Poor Dad’. We never expected it to be the huge hit on its own, and so the world just took over and that was the first of 15 books we, we wrote together in building the Rich Dad brand around the world. Brett Gilliland: Wow. Uh, Oprah have a little something to do with that? Did that help?  Sharon Lechter: Yes, she did. Well, we actually made it all the lists on our own. We worked really hard. Um, and I literally was packaging books up in my, in my living room, in my dining room table, cuz this was before Amazon, before the internet believe it or not, Dinosaur times. And so I knew how we could get into the bookstores from a standpoint of information, and we would do radio broadcasts all over the world, and they would go on to the Ingram at that time to find the publisher of this book. So I’d wake up in the morning on, there’d be a pile of orders on my fax machine, and I package books one at a time, out to bookstores all over the world. And that’s in January of 2000. We released in, um, 1997, April 97, and in in January of 2000, we hit all the major lists. And then in April of 2000, we got the phone call from Oprah, which of course helped us just 10 x from there, so.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, yeah. Amazing. That’s amazing. So when you look back on your career now, um, what, what would you tell the 35 year old Sharon Lechter, what advice would you give her?  Sharon Lechter: Well, I, I asked that question a lot. You know what, your 16 year old, your 20 year old self, and I, I always kind of answer the same way, Brett, because I wouldn’t be who I am today if it weren’t for all the things that happened to me before today, good and bad. And so I try not to look back. I just try to look forward. But for any young people, young person that I’m speaking to, I talk about the importance of being true to yourself because each and every one of you was created to be the perfect rendition of you, not me, not Brett, not someone else. And so you, you have a role to play on earth. You have a purpose. So stand in your own power and find your purpose and make decisions that are right for you and your family. Um, and we don’t, you know, we live, too many of us live in the world as shoulda, coulda, woulda. And we have to think about what can I do, what’s possible and look into the future. We are all today, where we are today, because the choices we made before today. And if you want something different, something better, something more, start making different choices today.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. And what’s that process for you? Like when you think, okay, I gotta make different choices. Are you a planner? Are you, like, do you have certain times throughout the year you do goals, planning, goal strategies? Like how do you make a change in maybe a habit or, or a new thing that you’re gonna go out and do?  Sharon Lechter: Well, things change based on what quarter of your life you’re in. I mean, obviously I’m, I’ve been financially free since I was 38, but we still have goal setting and time where we think about the multiple businesses that we own as well as our personal life. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Sharon Lechter: And so we think about, you know, family comes first. What do we want? We just literally came back two weeks ago from being in Costa Rica with our family for two weeks. That takes a lot of planning, um, lots of different schedules for every one of us. And I think it’s really important to focus on one big life. As you know, too many of us think about work or, or money, and we have to really think about our faith, our finances, our friends, our fitness, our all of that comes together to have one big life. And if I could change anything in the past, it would be to focus on making sure we don’t lose sight of one of those things because the importance of another. And this, um, you know, we only be around this world once and we need to make, make the most of it. And I, you know, I know too many people who get to the end of their life and they have a lot of money, but they don’t, they’ve lost their relationships along the way. And a lot of people have fan, very wonderful relationships. And they’re comfortable and they’re very, very happy. So which word do you want to be? You wanna have the material things, you wanna have the money at the expense of friends and family, or do you really want to have a well balanced life where you get up every single day excited about what that day’s gonna be and who you’re gonna be able to spend it with? Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I, I agree. I mean, I, I call it my f to the six power and, and it’s faith, family, fitness, fun, uh, firm, which is work for me. And then, uh, my finances, right. And those, and you just said most of those things right there. And I think I, I do a scorecard every 90 days for myself and for people I coach. And it, I think it’s important to not let one get too far off the reserve, right? Because I think if we’re not checking in with ourselves, uh, in my opinion, weekly, if not, you know, more often. But what have you done personally to make sure that one doesn’t get, you know, drift off to the side too, too far and it’s, it’s almost too late to even bring it back.  Sharon Lechter: Well, I believe it’s never too late to bring it back. Um, obviously your health is something that you can get too far to, um, you have to make some drastic changes. For me personally, I think, you know, we’ve, we’ve had a pretty well balanced life. Very happy Mike, and I’ve been married 42 years. Um, if anything I dropped the ball on is probably my fitness because I was so focused on work and driving and doing other things. I didn’t pay attention to my personal health. And that’s one of the things we’re focused on now, is trying to get ourselves back on the, at the prime level cuz we’re both my husband’s 73, I just turned 69. So it’s um, yeah, you know it’s a big issue when you get to that last chapter of your life so you wanna make sure that you are able to fill it, um, live it with our youngest grandchild is five, wanna see, be very vital and be able to be there for her for a long time. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. How many grandkids do you have?  Sharon Lechter: We have four.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome.  Sharon Lechter: And and we just, just the best thing on earth, I always felt on stage. Now the only reason to be a parent is so you can become a grandparent. We love it.  Brett Gilliland: That’s what, uh, Robin, who I work with here, she said, if I could do it again, I’d have my grandkids first. She’s like, you just don’t realize how special these grandbabies are. It’s, uh, it’s pretty awesome. So, um, when you hear the word fear, uh, you mentioned it earlier, so how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind have actually blown up to the magnitude and you put ’em in your mind to be?  Sharon Lechter: Well, fear is something that can get blown up very quickly in your subconscious. And, um, the book out ‘Winning the Devil’ I wrote was, uh, originally written by Napoleon Hill as a sequel to ‘Think and Go Rich’ about overcoming fear. And I think it’s really important there was. Locked away for 72 years cuz his wife was afraid of the title. And so I was able, had the honor to bring it out, but fear is debilitating. Um, then the issue is do you, do you let fear stop you? Fear either paralyzes us or motivates us. Most of us are paralyzed by fear.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Sharon Lechter: But ,instead, look at that fear as motivation to take the next step and turn that fear into fuel and energy to keep moving in the right direction. And it’s so important to understand, fear is part of the human nature. And so, um, when you’re stepping outside your comfort zone to experience something new, there’s gonna be a little trepidation and fear and ex and turn that into excitement to keep going and fuel, to keep experiencing something new in life.  Brett Gilliland: That’s great. So, uh, you, you talked about, or maybe you didn’t talk about, it was before we started recording, we talked about your ATMs talk, talk to us a little bit about that. What are those, where can people find them?  Sharon Lechter: Sure. Well, I talk about businesses, successful businesses do one of two things, solve a problem or serve a need. And so when I really, when I get mad about something, Brett, I usually start a new company. And when the pandemic hit three years ago, um, I was just inundated. We all were with all the negativity, the fear. Yeah. I mean, you just couldn’t, you just didn’t hear anything positive. And so I started a program called ATMs and said, daily is, um, deposit of, of abundance tips and mentorship, and I do it every single morning and it’s delivered to you either by text or in your email. And it really is to get people started off understanding, you’re perfect just the way you are. And that’s what I want people to understand. You’re perfect just the way you are and you have an opportunity to seize the day or be paralyzed by it.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Sharon Lechter: And so the ATM is really to talk at the E end of each one. I say, you are fabulous. Say it with me, I am fabulous. Because each and every one of us, we can either be reactive in the life we live, are proactive, and I want people to be proactive to seize the day and create opportunities.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And, and I think to your point there, that, that you are, you are perfect. All those things you say to yourself, I mean, you start to believe them, right? The more you say ’em. And I think back to ‘Think and Go Rich’, which obviously you’re very, very familiar with that. Another book I read when I was 23, 24 years old, it was very instrumental in my life. And I, if I remember correctly, I think they called a desire statement. You know, we, we changed the name, I think, and, and, you know, basically stole the idea and said design statement. But it’s true. And to this day, I still carry around things with me that, that I write to myself and that I read because. It, you gotta do it. I think it’s so important, uh, in life to, you know, what kind of parent do I want to be? What kind of spouse do I want to be and what, where am I at now? Where do I wanna be three years from now? And that got me through when I was on the grind and building it. And I think you’re always on the grind a little bit, uh, if you’re keep growing. But, um, but really the grind early on, that was super, super important for me. And I know you’ve been a part of that. So what are your thoughts on that?  Sharon Lechter: Well, absolutely. I mean, you have to have, my dad taught me map doesn’t do you any good if you don’t know where you are and where you want to go, and if you’re just walking through life aimlessly, then you’re going to be bounced around. You have to understand what it is you want outta life, personally and professionally, and, and have a focus on how to get it. And now obviously you have to be resilient. You have to be able to change directions if you have to, but your overall goal doesn’t change. You know when, when covid hit a lot of people talking about they were having to pivot and I said, no, you’re not pivoting. You just need to adjust, recalibrate. If your goal is the same, your goal doesn’t change. It’s just the way you approach it has to change. I use the analogy you wanna sail your boat to to Catalina Island from, you know, the coast of California and the wind changes. Your goal doesn’t change, but you have to recalibrate, adjust your sails, and be able to get to where you want to go. It’s the same thing in life. We think something’s going to happen. It does not. And we go, okay, well that doesn’t change my end goal. What do I need to do to get back on course?  Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. Love it. So where do our listeners find more of Sharon Lechter? Sharon Lechter: Well, thank you, Brett. Yeah, Sharon. I’m kind of Sharon Lechter everywhere. sharonlechter.com . Sharon Lechter on Instagram, Facebook, and, um, my professional page is author of Sharon Lechter on Facebook. And then, um, just welcome everybody to reach out to me, info@sharonlechter.com . I have information about my business retreats at my ranch in Arizona. Business about mentoring, and my online programs are all sharonlechter.com . Brett Gilliland: Awesome. We’ll put all that in the show notes. And Sharon, it’s been so awesome having you. And I, again, just wanna go back to think about a book that you read 20 years ago and you know that that 20 year old kid, or 24 year old kid, you know, probably didn’t think 20 years later he’d be interviewing one of the authors. And I just think it’s funny how, uh, life works out. And I also think that, say it again.  Sharon Lechter: You have the first editions there my dear, you still have… Brett Gilliland: Oh, is that right?  Sharon Lechter: Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, it looks a little different now, doesn’t it? Uh, but man, it’s an amazing book and what an impact that you’ve made in your career. So I just really appreciate you spending some time with us and our listeners today on the Circuit of Success. Sharon Lechter: Thank you so much, and I appreciate you doing this is, you know, it’s all power of association, so I’m happy to, to meet you and I look forward to getting to know you even better. Awesome. Thank you so much.

Wallstreet Journal and USA Today bestselling author Dr. Karyn Gordon talks about developing fundamental leadership skills in children at a young age, focusing on building confidence and self-discipline. She relates her experiences as a mother and a family and marriage therapist to encourage parents to set boundaries with technology. She empowers everyone to establish a daily routine to chase their definition of success. Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’ve got Dr. Karyn Gordon with me. Karysn, how you doing?  Dr. Karyn Gordon: I’m doing well. How are you doing?  Brett Gilliland: I am great. We were talking before we started recording. You’re up there looking at a, maybe a foot and a half of snow or something and just what, two hours north of Toronto? Dr. Karyn Gordon: I am two hours north of Toronto and literally we had a snowstorm last night, so my kids are actually home today. Uh, they have a snow day they’re very excited about, but it is a winter wonderland. Um, but, you know, it’s beautiful and I feel very blessed. Brett Gilliland: Very blessed to be inside where it’s, you know, 70, 72 degrees and warm, right?. Dr. Karyn Gordon: Right. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: You know, the snow days are kind of getting ruined, aren’t they? I mean, it used to be you could get a snow day to go play, but now sometimes they say snow day, but you’re still gonna get up and get on Zoom and do some, do some schooling. That happens every now and then.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Usually, you know what, their last school, they did that, but not this one. This one. They’re like, snow days just enjoy yourself.  Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Right. Um, we’ve got a few of those built in the, the old school days are built in, but then there’s a number of them that if, if we get to that number, we gotta go back online. I’m gonna read a few things about you, Karen, because you’ve gotta quite the resume. Um, I can’t read at all because we would just have a podcast about your resume and then that would be boring for everybody. So, uh, but we’re gonna start with, uh, you are a ‘Wall Street Journal’ and ‘USA Today’ bestselling author. You are a ‘Ted Talk’ speaker, and here’s what I thought was awesome. You were the top 10 most popular Ted, ‘TEDx’ talk in 2022 globally. That’s a big deal. Ums a very big deal.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: The actual number was number six.  Brett Gilliland: Six. Number six for those counting and keeping score at home, what you got to in life, right? Uh, you were the CEO and cal, uh, co-founder of DK Leadership. You have a doctorate in marriage and, uh, and family with, uh, and you were the spokesperson.  I thought this was cool For Maple Leaf Foods, Microsoft, eHarmony, and UNICEF. Um a professional counselor for 25 years, an executive coach, uh, a media personality who’s consulted for ‘Good Morning America’, ‘Forbes’ entrepreneur, the ‘New York Times’ and Cityline. And again, I could go on and on and on, but a doctorate is a big deal. Uh, and I didn’t put put in there with, uh, honoring her work for organizations and families, uh, by the council, general counsel of, uh, Canada, uh, in New York. That was cool. But emotional intelligence is a big part of your life as well. So again, I could go on and on, but that’s, that’s her resume, ladies and gentlemen. So, Karen, welcome uh, to the Circuit of Success.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: I’m glad.. I’m excited. to speak with you and all of your awesome listeners.  Brett Gilliland: Great. Well, if you can, I always ask a very big question first on all these episodes is what’s made you the woman you are today? Uh, to get you to where you don’t wake up and do all this stuff without a, without a backstory. So what is that? Dr. Karyn Gordon: The backstory? You know, that’s a great question. Um, if, for anybody who’ve seen my TED Talk, uh, it, I designed it specifically for families, teams, and schools. And in the TED Talk, I talk about, uh, it’s really the three mindsets of a leader, insecure, competent, arrogant. And in the talk TED Talk, I talk about being diagnosed with a learning disability when I was 13 years old and told by a clinical psychologist that I had a very severe learning disability and I’d be lucky to finish high school. And that was the story. That was kind of my own kind of, that’s my backstory on kind of when my leadership really started was really at a, at a crossroads and I had to make some very fundamental decisions at 13 years old around what I was gonna do with my life. And so, It was definitely, uh, that was kind of with when it started being a very stubborn, strong spirited kid, uh, having to fall badly, uh, having parents that really were amazing and letting me fall. And then finally at 14 years old, being willing to actually receive help. And so once I actually started receiving help, going for extra help, learning about my disability, all of a sudden I that, you know, I started to receive success and, um, and it was so, so I really, really believe that leadership, and this is for everybody listening, whether or not you’re a business owner, entrepreneur, professional, parent, whatever it is, I really believe that leadership is a mindset, not a position or a role. And you can actually start teaching that to children at a very, very young age. And so one of my biggest things when I’m speaking to parents, the importance about letting your kids fail and really trying to. Fundamental leadership skills at a very, very young age. Um, and so that’s part of the reason why I’m so passionate about this work is because, you know, there are so many things in life we cannot control. But if we can help ourselves and our teams and our kids focus on things that they can control and having that locus of control, all of a sudden, that’s really when success starts, uh, taking off however people define success. Um, but that’s really with what it starts, it starts leadership. Really just start with developing yourself. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I, I couldn’t agree more. And I, I think it’s always a question I like to ask, and usually later, but I’ll start with it now, is, and you just said it as, success is defined differently by everybody, right? I think in our modern world that we live in, and probably for generations success, I’m using air quotes. If you’re just listening it, it used to be defined as just money, right? Oh, this person, man or woman, makes a bunch of money. They’re successful. I’m in the money business. I work with money every day, all day. I own a wealth management firm. It’s what we do, but I personally define success for myself and for our clients as time with your family, right? your vacation planning, your, your, the books you’re reading, the people you’re surrounding yourself with. Money is certainly part of that, right?  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Sure.  Brett Gilliland: but, how do you define success?  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Yeah, great question. So in my book, the three chairs, I talk about what I call the six piece of engagement. And it’s something that I. What I love doing is looking at data. I’m a data girl. I love numbers, love math, love good research. But what I do is I find patterns in the research because there’s a lot of stuff out there, but if you can kind of boil it down and kind of look for patterns. And so when I really started studying, uh, teams that were doing phenomenal, families that were doing phenomenal people that were doing phenomenal, I started to notice that there were six categories. That people we’re paying attention to. I called the six piece of engagement. I talked about ’em in my book, the three chairs. And you can actually literally do this, whether or not you are a parent, you have got teenagers, you’ve got teams who can do it right across the board. But the six categories are six areas that we all need to be paying attention to. So the first piece is purpose. We all need a sense of purpose. What drives us, uh, it comes with our values. How are we actually giving back? We’ve got professional goals and career goals. Um, School goals. Profit is the other piece. So that would be, you know, how do we manage our money? I did actually, you find this interesting, I did my doctorate in, uh, over indulgence for families and speak specifically on financial literacy and what happens when that skillset is not, when, when we don’t properly teach that to kids. So profit, really getting, getting really managing your money so your money does not manage you. Uh, physical health is another one. Play and people, so those are the six, the six piece. And this is an exercise I do as an individual. My husband and I and business partner do it every year. We get our teens or we’ve got twins that are 15 years old. We get them to do it every year. We get our team to do it. And you basically look at these six different categories and you start identifying your goals. I usually recommend one to two per category, and that becomes your roadmap for the year. Um, so that you. Proactive in terms of how you’re lead leading your life instead of reactive, which is what too often we actually see. And so I find all six of those categories are extremely important. And when I work with different leaders, depending on who they are, sometimes they may be like, gosh, you know what? This makes sense. I’m really focusing so much on the profit and the professional goals, but my physical health is totally off for my people and my wife. My marriage is totally off. And to be really successful, the way I look at it is you have to pay attention to all six. You have all six require time and energy and some intentionality. So to really, you know, it’s pausing. It takes 15 minutes, but just having that roadmap per day will be such a gift to yourself this next year. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And, and, and it’s amazing what you just said there, the six Ps I, I have what I call my f to the six power, right? It’s, it’s your faith, your family, your fitness, your fun, your firm, which for me is work. And then your finances. And so I agree because, um, you know, a lot of people talk about work life balance. I don’t know if there is balance, right? Mm-hmm. , because sometimes it’s gonna be a little bit better in this category and maybe it’s a little bit better in that category sometime, but I think as long as we don’t let it get too far away, I think that’s the value of journaling and the value of keeping score, all those things, right? That, that you have an integration. And because no matter what, if you and your spouse, uh, you know, this isn’t a spouse conversation, but if you guys got in a big fight this morning, it would certainly affect you on this podcast right now, right? Mm-hmm. your energy to be a little different, and I think we gotta, as people go through and score ourselves. So when you hear me say all that, would you agree with that? What are your thoughts on it?  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Absolutely. I really believe in scoring everything. I, again, I love numbers, I love metrics. I think that way we can kind of sometimes take some of these le leadership and relationship topics and make it all of a sudden really concrete. And so, um, I actually believe very strongly on measuring things. I actually get people to measure in terms of the six piece of engagement. Um, I also get people to measure, we really focus on leadership, emotional intelligence. I could be able to measure their emotional intelligence, um, and how you can do that. We’ve gotta score a card for anybody listening. If you’re like, “Gosh, Karyn, that sounds interesting. How do I do that?”, Uh, you can go to our website, dkleadership.org. DK stands for Dr. Karen in Canada. Dot org is for-profit and non-profit. Uh, It’s very funny, whenever I talk to my American clients, they’re like, oh, dot org is like, charity in the states. I’m like, no. In Canada, it’s, it’s different.  Brett Gilliland: Oh, really? Yeah.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Yeah. dkleadership.org. You can, you can go there, you can download a free leadership scorecard. And that is a really interesting way to kind of launch into this topic because you can measure your emotional intelligence. You can do it with for yourself, you can share it with your teen, your family, and by having something that is a nu that is measured. Then you kind of know what your baseline is. You can know here’s where I’m, we’re starting, here are the skills that I really wanna work on, and here’s the goal that I wanna achieve by the end of the year. And just having that gives you a, a plan. Cause otherwise everything feels too abstract and out there. So Absolutely. I, I agree with you that things need to be measured so we can kind of have a roadmap to, to make progress.  Brett Gilliland: So let’s, uh, talk about kids for a little bit. I think it’s important. I actually get some feedback in December, like, Hey, it’d be pretty cool with all these amazing people you talked to if, uh, you talked about parenting and some kids stuff. And so, so when you think about that, what, what are maybe the 1, 2, 3, whatever they are, uh, habits. Things that we need to be as a father of four boys, what do I need to be focused on to be the best dad I can possibly be? Or you know, somebody listening that’s the best mom they can possibly be.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Oh, so it’s such a good question. You know, my doctorate’s in marriage and family, so I’m a still registered therapist. I still practice, although very, very part-time. So I started my practice 25 years ago working as a family practitioner practitioner, uh, at a medical office with families and with teenagers in particular. And there’s certain kind of fundamental skills that are really, really important for parents to really focus in on. And if there was one skill that I would say, just focus on this one and everything else is gonna start falling into place, it’s confidence. Cuz when you actually start really building and developing your kids to be confident, everything else pulls out of that. So for example, again, the ‘TED Talk’, when I designed it, I specifically designed it so that parents could be on the sofa watching it with their kids. I had this vision of myself when I was speaking to the audience that parents or me sitting on their sofa watching this ‘TED Talk’ with their kids and to help facilitate that conversation, we designed discussion questions to do that. So again, you can go to our website, dkleadership.org and download those. And so for Mother’s Day, I actually had my own kids. I’ve got twins, they’re 15. I’m like, okay, I know what I want for my Mother’s Day gift. I want us to watch my TED talk together and do the (inaudible:discussion questions) together because it’s all about confidence. And when you see the three chairs and you actually understand how the three chairs actually work, and you can start talking about these three different mindsets of confidence, everything else falls into place. So that would be kind of number one to really kind of do, you know, really focus in on developing confidence that the ‘TED Talk’ is a great place to start with that.  The second skill to really, really focus in on is self-discipline. There’s been a ton of research. I talked with this in my book, the Three Chairs. There’s been a ton of research on if you can help kids develop self-discipline, which is the opposite of delay gratification. That is so correlated with overall happiness, wellbeing, and success, however you define it. Because when people have self-discipline, they are, they are the, they’re leading their own life. They’re not being reactive to their life. So really helping your kids develop a solid sense of self-discipline would be kind of my second. Um, and the third, honestly, I’d almost say if you can just focus on those two. Everything started, everything else starts falling into place because if you have confidence and you’ve got self-discipline, then everything else, it’s like a domino effect. Everything else starts falling into place, whether it’s with, with school or with academics or with physical health or with money. But if you’ve got confidence, self-discipline. You’re gonna be, you’re gonna be fine. However you kind of define in your life. Those would be the first, the top two. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That thoses are great. And I, I talk about attitude just decides where you go. Your discipline decides how fast you get there. Yes. And it’s so true with what you’re saying right here. So, and here’s my, my kind of, let’s have some fun with this, but, How in the hell do we work through these telephones? Right. So, you know, they can you watch Social Dilemma on Netflix if you haven’t watched it? They should. People should. But you, you watch it. It’s, it’s, they’re built to guide us, right? And, and attract us into those things and not leave. What, what have you done, uh, that maybe your kids liked or didn’t like, but maybe to control those cell phones? Dr. Karyn Gordon: So here’s how I see social media in all, really all technology. The way I describe it is my philosophy around it’s a tool and like all tools, uh, car driving is a car is a tool too, right? These are things that are there to help us. So if we can really. Always make sure what is the purpose and function of that tool and making sure that we have boundaries around that tool. That’s the biggest thing. So, you know that whether or not it’s with technology or video games or social media, all of it, you know what it really is, the purpose of it and then setting boundaries around it so that it doesn’t control the person. And so from a, uh, social media perspective, I just follow the research and the research basically says that anything over two hours of being entertained for children is gonna start affecting their learning. That came out of Columbia University and they just really found that, you know, video games, for example, are not, they’re not wrong. They’re not a problem. In fact, it’s very social. Okay. Actually, just last night, uh, we were encouraging one of our sons to, to maybe go, you know, they’ve got a, they’ve started business, they make their own money and one of them will actually wants to maybe kind of go and upgrade his computer so that he be more interactive with his friends, uh, with, with a video game. Great. He’s like, really? I’m like, sure. You’ve earned the money for the money. You’ve earned it, you’ve saved it, you’ve managed it, and now you’re actually gonna go buy some more technology to do something that’s social. We’re all in favor. And so we’re, we’re, so that is kind of a good example on how you can kind of partner with your kids. On something that’s really exciting for them, but you still put boundaries around it. So not just because he’s buying this computer does not mean that he’s gonna have access to it for eight hours, but still, his parents still put boundaries around it. You can have fun with your kids with this, you know, same thing with telephones. Parents often say to me, when should my kids get phones? And I think one of the best ways to do is let them pay for it. Let them earn it. And paid for it. Like you and I could talk for a whole session just about financial literacy. I’m very passionate about how do you financial literacy to kids. Brett Gilliland: Yep, yep.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: One of the biggest mistakes that I’m seeing with parents, but what we’re doing is we’re giving money. We’re not teaching them how to make it, how to save it, how to manage it. Giving money does not teach financial literacy. And so, so you can have fun, creative ways of saying, great, you want a phone? Perfect. How are you gonna earn that money? What’s, you know it’s gonna cost you $500,000. Here’s the monthly program. And all of a sudden now you’re partnering with your kids. It’s very perfect parents to partner with your kids, not to manage their kids. It’s. One of the big differences.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. When that’s that self-confidence and uh, and self-discipline, right? I mean, that’s it. And, and it’s, and it’s working right there. So, so do you actually have like, say the two hour boundary? Like if, once they’ve played, whether it’s, you know, whatever, what’s the TikTok or, uh, Fortnite or anything like that? So once they’ve kind of hit that limit, we’re out. Dr. Karyn Gordon: Yeah, there is max two hours. In fact, we’ve actually just even talked about maybe actually reducing it down to an hour and a half, but that is at this. The other thing about self-discipline, I talk a lot in my book around the importance about a daily routine. When we talk about successful practices, successful habits, whether or not it’s a CEO that I’m coaching, or if it’s a 15 year old client, it doesn’t make any difference. It is really important that people are designing a successful daily routine with successful habits. And one of the things you wanna do, if the end goal is self-discipline, which I think everybody on the call would probably agree is a good thing, then you have to design your day to reinforce self-discipline. So how do you do that? So the one of the ways that, again, I do this with CEOs, I do this with, with my own kids, is you make sure that you get your work done first. You work first, you play second. Yeah. So in our home, they come home, they do their, you know, we have family dinners. They do their homework and then their rewardis if they want a game with their friends. Yeah. I’m totally believer I have no problem with that. They’ve worked hard. Now you get to treat yourself. Yeah. And, and but the difference between where a lot of people, the misstep is all sudden they come home and then they’re gaming. So they’re rewarding themselves before they work. That’s gonna re. Delayed gratification, which is the opposite with what we’re actually trying to do. So really important, we kind of figure out what’s the end game, what’s the, what’s the goal that we’re really trying to achieve as parents? And then you have a strategy plan in place, just like the same way you do with business. You apply the same principles actually to marriage and for fa, for for parenting.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I love it. So I mean, think about it too, from a standpoint of even in their sleep, I mean, if they’re getting more than that, and if it’s leading up to bedtime, It’s gonna lead in, you know, worse sleep, and then that’s, that’s then the next day. I mean, it just goes on and on and on. Right. It’s, it’s so important and, and you’re right, we do it as a bus, we have a business plan, right? Some people have business plans. What’s your daily plan? What’s your family plan? Uh, those are important. So… Dr. Karyn Gordon: and what’s your married plan? You know, I work with, you know, our company. We work with companies in seven countries with 5,000 different leaders, every single different industry. And one of the things I love to do is teaching all these, uh, professionals and business leaders, That the skills that you learn in business and in entrepreneurship are the exact same skills you could actually apply to marriage and family. They’re the exact same. You know, I’ve been doing this work for 25 years. I fir, I started the first 10 years working just with marriages and families, and then I was asked by companies that responded from my work to transfer that doctorate in family systems into organizational systems. So I kind of did it backwards. I started with families. And then I started working with businesses. And when I started working with companies 15 years ago, I just kind of assumed incorrectly that a lot of business leaders would’ve applied the same business, best practice to their marriage and family. Brett Gilliland: …right.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: …and I was totally wrong and, and so it wasn’t until I started working a lot of these leaders, I’m like, well, you’ve got this strategy brain. Have you applied the same strategy? Brain? Brain to your marriage? No. I’m like, well, does it make that sense while your marriage is falling apart and there’s no connection, your kids don’t talk to you like you need plans without a plan. Things kind of start falling apart. And so the last, um, actually we’re launching, I was sharing with you just before we started, we’re launching a marriage mastermind for couples of business leaders to apply the same str because your marriages need a strategy plan. Just the way your businesses need a strategy plan. Your kids needs a strategy plan. And so when we’re talking about success and habits of success, that’s one of the most important things. Everything needs a plan. Otherwise, we’re very reactive and our culture is so fast, and everything’s moving at such a fast pace that without a very proactive plan. We’re reactive and then we pay the price for it. Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. So let’s, let’s turn the page to IQ versus eq. I mean, obviously for years people have talked about your IQ, right? How intelligent are you? How much information can you process per second in your brain, right? The emotional side. Explain that to people. And how important is one over the other or one with the other?  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Well, like I was sharing with you before I, my next, right after your podcast, I’m, I’m doing a keynote for an insurance company Exactly on this topic, so…  Brett Gilliland: Ah, there you go. We’re getting some practice in,  Dr. Karyn Gordon: …you’re getting, yeah, getting a little bit of practice, so, So, yes, for years people thought IQ was a thing to aim for, and your IQ really what it does, it tends to be more fixed. It tends to, it really, it’s like how many a’s did you get in school? It’s how you can memorize information, how you can recite information. Um, and so, and it’s important. Okay, so I still, I wanna emphasize it is still important. Education is still very important. I’m gonna always advocate for education for a lot of reasons, but what we found is that IQ was only part of the puzzle. There’s another part on EQ, which is called emotional intelligence. That we are found now is actually a better predictor on success consistently we actually find based on research. So again, IQ is still important, but what really is a, um, basically anywhere from the 80 to 90% of success, again, however you define it, is actually more determined based on EQ not IQ. So it’s, it’s, so we still wanna focus on the IQ, but we wanna pay more attention now to EQ. And so EQ, emotional intelligence are five core skills, all of which can be learned. And so one of the things that I found really exciting about the topic, um, is that unlike IQ, which tends to be more fixed, EQ is learned. You can learn emotional intelligence. So when I say to my clients or when I’m speaking at conferences, I’m like, who wants to be successful? And everybody’s hand goes up. I’m like, great. So, and I say, okay, you know, the secret for, for success is really emotional intelligence. So who can tell me with what it is? Most people have heard of it, but very, very few people can actually tell me with what it is. That’s where the gap is. The gap is, people have heard of it, but they don’t really know with what it is, and they don’t know how you can. To me, that’s foundational. And so that’s what we, as a company, that’s what we do. We teach what it is and we teach how you can build it and measure it. Um, and so it’s five core skills and everybody listening you can kind of think about this. Um, five core skills that measure your leadership. Emotional intelligence. So it’s stands for acronym C.A.R.D.S. So your communication skills, your attitude and goal setting skills. R stands for your relationship skills. D stands for your decision making, self-discipline and time management skills. And S stands for your stress and emotion management skills. So those are the five core skills, and again, on our website, we’ve got that scorecard that goes into way more detail and you can measure yourself. And you can start doing this when you’re eight years old. You don’t have to wait to be a senior, uh, senior leader at a company to start doing. No. You start developing this young, and as a parent, you start helping your kids develop these skills. This is gonna be the best predictor on how successful they’re gonna be, is how much they can develop these five core skills. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And those are com again, communication, uh, your attitude, relationships, discipline, and stress. I mean, that’s obviously the high level of those.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Exactly, yes.  Brett Gilliland: …and, and go to the, uh, dkleadership.org. Uh, for those, it’s on there slash connect, I believe.  Um, and you’ll find those. That’s awesome. Um, Let’s talk to about daily habits for the most successful people that you have the privilege to work with. But I would even, uh, drill down even more and say you, right, so you specifically, what are those daily habits that make you be the best leader, speaker, mom, wife, et cetera, that you can possibly be day in and day out. Dr. Karyn Gordon: It’s a great question. It’s funny, we just, we’re we’re, um, focusing on developing a whole bunch of video content and literally, I was filming this yesterday, so this is very top, this is very top of mind. So yeah, I really believe in that daily routine and really figuring out what those success principles are. So my daily routine is I, uh, um, the basically five 30, the alarm goes off. I get up, I do an hour in the morning on gre gratitudes prayer and meditation, and I watch that sun come up and nothing is more powerful for me than having that one hour of quiet with a cup of coffee. The whole house is still sleeping, and I just, I in the best version of myself, and so I had tested lots of different times. For me, that’s like the best time. Seven o’clock we have a barn on property and we as a family go up to the barn and we do circuit training. Um, this is a new habit we started, uh, this last year, which has been amazing. My husband actually suggested it, and so we all do circuit training together, which has been amazing. Kids go to school, and then I start up with clients and with our, uh, company at eight o’clock. And then generally I will work till four and then you shut it off. Uh, I’m really believe, I believe you focus on really high level what really has to kind of get done. And then you clear, you know, create really clear boundaries. So for four o’clock, uh, we stop working and then the rest of it is I’m making dinner. So my husband and I have done a good job in terms of division of labor. Uh, that’s a big issue with a lot of mar marriages. They don’t know how to divide labor, so, Uh, he does a ton, but one of my things is I do dinner, so, and I, and I actually love making dinner, so I’ll make a great dinner. We have family dinner, uh, kids do homework, uh, and then nine o’clock we do fireside chat. So again, a new habit we started, we put the fire on and uh, cuz again, we’re in Canada and we’ve built lots of snow. Yeah. So we fireside chat and we have a family connection, uh, for half an hour and then nine 30 to bed and 10 o’clock lights out.  Brett Gilliland: Bam! Dr. Karyn Gordon: So that’s the. Yeah, it is awesome. And so my husband and I also connect. We used to connect at nine o’clock. This is before we started doing the fireside chat. So now we’re actually connecting at about eight o’clock. We’ve had a hot tub, and that’s one of our favorite places to connect. So you kind of, you kind of get into this rhythm around how do you do, you know, personal time, business time, parenting time, husband time? It’s only, and everything needs, needs a time. Otherwise, what happens is, Spouses get the leftover energy, our kids get left.  Brett Gilliland: Right. Right.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: So, and, and if I’m speaking, if I’m traveling, it’s obviously gonna be different, but for, for as much as we can when I’m home, that is kind of the rhythm.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And so those fireside chats, I mean, that’s in a perfect world, obviously, you’d say seven days a week, but I mean, how often is that actually happening where everybody’s like, yeah, I, I want to come down and, and connect and be with the family and they’re all excited about it versus I’m a teenager. And, and I think I’m pretty lucky. I sent my sauna last night with my, uh, 17 year old for 25 minutes. So I mean, they’re, they’re good about doing that stuff, but at the same time, I mean, they’re, they’re kids, right? And they may not want to do that. So what’s that look like for you? Dr. Karyn Gordon: So for us, we do it about, we actually do it about five nights a week. Um Okay. But we live at the country, so we’re a little bit different, but it’s fireside with hot chocolate. I forgot to mention that one of the one little secrets with, with teenagers, especially teen boys, is food.  Brett Gilliland: Yes. Bribe with food. Dr. Karyn Gordon: Like some chips, popcorn. So for us that actually works. But we live in the country. It’s a little bit different. When we lived in this city that was not different cuz there was like a lot more extracurricular and all of that. So one of the things I encourage anybody listening is it’s really great to to get ideas and get inspired by other people’s stories and all that, but you gotta really personalize what’s realistic for you. Yeah. So for some of our clients, That’s not realistic. And so what’s more realistic is maybe they do it once a week and if it’s once a week, we do once a week and it’s pizza and fireside or, or kind of like, you know. So I think it’s great to have, um, examples, but, but really be realistic with what is gonna work with, you know, our own family culture. We’ve got some clients that, you know, they’re in hockey and it’s like insane schedules and so, you know, their hot chocolate connection is more in the car driving between events. So you wanna, you wanna have a framework, but be flexible and think about how that’s really great. That’s inspiring. How could that work for our family culture and be inspired? Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I think that goes back to the emotional intelligence, right? Is to not beat yourself, beat yourself up over it. Like, cuz I, in my twenties, my early thirties, I was like, oh, if I didn’t do this one thing five times a week, I was a failure. Yeah. And I was just so hard on myself, right? And I think that’s now looking back, hindsight, right? But now I see other people and they’re like, well, I’m gonna start, I, you get this new idea. I’m gonna start doing it six days a week. I’m like, so you really think you’re gonna go from zero to six versus let’s take that baby step. Let’s commit to two times a week, right? And that can happen now becomes a bigger habit. Dr. Karyn Gordon: Absolutely. And I talked about this in my book too, just the importance about how do you. How do you really build those five different skills? Especially when you’re, when you’re referencing the attitude and goal setting skill, one of the biggest things is people either don’t set the goal or they set it too high that it’s unrealistic and then they feel overwhelmed and they don’t start. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: So having that, that attitude, that mindset around stretching, but realistic. So if you’re not having any family connection, start with trying to do it once a week and then ask your kids to get the engagement. Ask your kids, I’d love to have a little bit more family connection. What could we do to make it more attractive? And so maybe it’s a pizza, maybe it’s like popcorn. Maybe it’s, you know, you’re going, like going up for dinner. Like talk with your kids. Really, you know, have that conversation because you don’t wanna be dragging your kids to do this. You wanna try to make it, um, more enjoyable, um, and get their input. They’ll tell you, I mean, this is the one wonderful thing about kids, teenagers. They’ll tell you if you ask and if you really explain why you’re wanting to do it, that you, they can really kind of get onboard for it.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. So when you hear me say Our, our firm’s mission, uh, is helping people achieve a future greater than your past. So again, doesn’t mean your past was terrible, but I think everybody wants to have a future greater than their past, right? So when you hear me say that, what comes to mind for you? H how would you methodically look at that and say, huh, I like that, but why?  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Yeah, I love that. Well, we’ve just come off of, you know, doing our six p strategy plan for the year, so this is very top of mind for us, but for, for me, um, as an individual, but also even as a business too, our whole thing is really having more global impact. And, um, you know, for, it was one of the reasons why I moved from family practice to more the leadership development to more, we have a whole, we have online courses that we teach. We work with companies all around the world now. . For us, it was really around how to reach more people, uh, how do we help more people? And so doing it in two different ways. One, uh, we’re gonna be amplifying a lot more on social media in terms of like people that just, you know, maybe they don’t have resources taken of our course they don’t have, but they really wanna learn. We wanna make sure that we’re serving those, we wanna make sure we’re serving and helping as many people as we possibly can. So for us it’s really amplifying our social media. And that’s why we’re doing a whole bunch of different videos and that, and then also offering more courses and that for our companies, but also their families. Um, I really believe in developing the whole leader. And when, I mean the whole leader, I mean the leader at work and the leader at home. Yeah. You know, sometimes people see great leaders in their company, but they’re really lousy leaders at home. Yeah. And we really believe in developing that whole leader and making sure that we’re serving them with whatever it is. So for me, it’s really amplifying those kind of two parts, uh, which we’re really excited about.  Brett Gilliland: So, um, talk about the risks that you’ve taken. I think as anybody that’s a business leader, we’ve all taken risks, we’ve bet on ourselves. Scary as hell. Right? But you still did it. What’s, what’s that risk that you took that, looking back now, you’re glad you took it? Dr. Karyn Gordon: Um, the first really big risk I took, well, I bought a cottage when I was 20 years old. Um, and uh, it was crazy. I always had this dream at 16 years old, I had a dream that I would have a cottage before I bought a house. And so I told my dad, and, you know, for a lot of people that, you know, they would say, well, that’s a crazy idea. But my dad was like, then start saving. Like, he was very practical about it. , I started saving, I had to pay for my, for my university and college as well. So I had three jobs and I was hustling and I saved a little bit of money and I, and this amazing opportunity came up. And at 20 years old, I bought this cottage for $17,000. And, uh, if you, if people go to my Instagram, you can actually see the before and after pictures. It’s hilarious. You’ll see me at 20 years old buying this cottage. And we ended up fixing it up and selling it. And it, not only did it, we sell it for an exorbitant amount more money than 17,000, but it made it, it was in a national magazine. We actually got into Canadian House and Home Magazine. Oh wow. Like literally picture. You can actually see the before and after pictures. But it, um, it was a massive risk because the land was, um, there was a lot of different issues around the land. There was a possibility I could, we could lose it in four years. And I remember at 20 years old, I was talking to my mom about it. And I had to make a decision really quickly because there was like a bidding war that was starting on it. And the way she, what she said to me, really spoke to me. She said, Karyn, she said, risk, go after with what you want, but don’t risk more than you’re willing to lose. Brett Gilliland: Mm-hmm. Dr. Karyn Gordon: …and I thought that was a really smart piece of advice so that I could put my little bit of money and pay for the $17,000 cottage, but am I gonna be okay if I lose it four years from now? Yeah. And I remember wrestling with that, and I’m like, is it worth the risk? Is it worth the risk? I’m, I’m putting everything I’ve got on this little thing. And I’m like, I’m, it is worth the risk. And I had to, because I mean, you’ve seen, I’m sure with a lot of your clients too, I’m all about risk taking, but there’s healthy risk taking.  Brett Gilliland: Sure. Dr. Karyn Gordon: And there’s unhealthy risk taking. And so when I teach my clients now, I, I encourage them, you know, go after the risk, but are you okay if you lose this risk? And don’t over risk, you know? And so I had to make that decision. It turned out to be a really wise choice and um, and that’s sort of a whole real estate business for us. Actually. That’s part of one of our, we do real estate.  Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. Dr. Karyn Gordon: So, but it started 20 years old and, uh, and so I tell, you know, my team clients like start thinking about your goals and with what you want because it does start, you start planting those seeds um, when you’re teenagers.  Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Which is a big deal cuz it, I mean, before you know it, your, your ex age and it’s time flies, doesn’t it? Uh, it’s nuts. So what, you know, I, I spend a lot of time asking questions, right? So whether it’s to my clients, I’m asking questions all day long and then I, obviously, I host a podcast and then it’s what I do. I ask questions. But somebody asked me a question this morning and I thought it was a great question, I’m gonna start asking, and he said in 2023, Brett, what’s the one thing that you’ve gotta do to get out of your comfort zone? So I’ll ask you that question. What’s your one thing that you gotta do to get out of your comfort zone this year? Dr. Karyn Gordon: My one thing I would actually be really, um, really getting around the whole social media thing. It’s, you know, I’ve done traditional media for a long time. I, it’s very comfortable for me. I can do with my eyes closed, I’ve done it for 20 years. Social media’s a totally different thing and I, um, and I had to really kind of get my head around it. Um, so that for me is really stepping out of my comfort zone because you have to film it differently. You have to share different content. It’s a lot more vulnerable content. Like it, it really is a bit of a different beast than traditional television.  Brett Gilliland: Well, there’s no interaction, right? Dr. Karyn Gordon: It’s so different. And so I just, but because our purpose is to, to have a wider global, you know, really help more people and to have a more of a global impact. I know it’s the vehicle to do it, and so I just need, I just wanna do it. And so for me, that has been, that has been the part. So I got, you know, myself, a social media coach, kind of somebody to kind of help. And so, I’m just trying to apply the same things I did when I was 13 years old to my disability. I can’t do this, uh, right now because I don’t have the skills. I’m gonna find somebody who has the skills to teach me how to do it.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Dr. Karyn Gordon: And so at nine years old, I’m gonna apply the same tools. Now I don’t have the skills. I’m gonna learn how to do the skills I, I’m gonna find myself as a coach to actually help me so that I can kind of master this because I know, I know it’s gonna take with where I wanna go. So that, for me, I think that’d be my, my, my goal. The biggest goal really for 2023.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I don’t want to gloss over that. Cause I think so many, anytime somebody talks about this on a podcast, I always stop because they just say it like it’s just normal. Because for you it is normal. But you said, I’m gonna hire a coach. And you said it twice, right? How many people listening to this right now want to do that thing? Whatever that thing is. If it’s social media, it’s, you know, jumping out of an airplane. Being a better speaker, whatever it may be. But we’re afraid to hire a coach, right? We’re afraid to put our money where our mouth is but that is, it’s been critically important for my success over my 21 years in business, is having a business coach. Mm-hmm. and personal coaches, right? Like all of those things is important and you’re doing that.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Yes, it really is. You know, I’m all around efficiency and what’s, you know, what’s the goal and what’s gonna be the fastest way for me to get the goal? Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: For me, it, the fast way to get a goal is find somebody who’s who, who has, who knows what they’re talking about, that has already done it, and learn their best practices. Like I don’t need to fall over and over and over again. And that was my learning when I was 13 years old. I, I was so resistant to getting outside help. I was embarrassed. I was ashamed of it. And I realize if I don’t start putting up my hand and asking for help, I’m not gonna get what I, I’m not gonna get my goals. Like it was, it was very clear and I figure that out at 14 years old, so, so now I’m like really quick. I just, okay. I don’t know the skill. So changing the mindset to from, I can’t do this to, I don’t have the skill to do this. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: You know? And, and then who has that skill? And put your hand up and reach out and take action and take initiative and step on the gas. Don’t play the victim, step on the gas and take action and go and chase what you wanna chase, whatever success looks like for you. And life is full of incredible opportunities. Um, but we do need to put her hand up and step on the gas.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. So looking at, uh, your book here, ‘The Three Chairs’, um, talk about that for a second. Cause I know you got a, you got a bunch of people gonna be waiting on you here to give a, uh, keynote speech to, so we gotta get you going here, but talk about your book real quick. Work your people. Find it again. ‘Wall Street Journal’ Bestseller, ‘USA Today’, ‘Amazon’, I mean, just crushing it, right? So, uh, where do our listeners get it and what do you want them, what’s your goal for them to get from that book? Dr. Karyn Gordon: So, yeah, ‘The Three Chairs’ is a concept I created 25 years ago when actually I started working with teenagers, and then I realized how applicable it actually is to, to leaders. But it’s basically, it’s how leaders drive communication, performance, and engagement. It’s a business book, uh, but, I’d say 90% of it you can actually apply for parenting. So I’d encourage parents to actually get it as well. But talks about the three different attitudes that we all have. The insecure leader, the competent leader, the arrogant leader. And when you understand with what kind of leader or what attitude you actually have, it can actually, almost based on science, almost predict in terms of how you actually act out and live your life. And so the whole thing is around really focusing in on how do I become a confident person sitting in that middle chair? Um, and so it’s very, very simple. Watch the ‘TED Talk’. You’ll actually understand more. Uh, but the book is like a wonderful guide to kind of take you to that next level around like, let’s not be lazy about it. Let’s not play the victim. Let’s all learn how to become a confident person, cuz every one of us can do it. Yeah. Um, and so when it comes to the free workbook, so people can do it as a team, you can like do it as you know, if you’re your own leader, uh, the best place to buy it is ‘Amazon’. That’s fastest way. And so you can go to amazon.com, you can get it over or through our website as well. But it really is a very practical, all based on sciences, practical guide on how to develop confidence. And once you have that confidence, then it spills into everything else. The self-discipline, the emotion management, um, the goal setting, everything starts spilling over once we actually have that confident mindset.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. So last question, we’ll get you going. If you could grab Dr. Karyn Gordon, kind of by the shoulder, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago what, what would you tell that Karyn Gordon?  Dr. Karyn Gordon: What would I tell to my younger self, I would actually, I’d actually probably say get even more coaches. Actually I would, I always, I would have like one coach, but why not have like three or four, like if, you know, I think I was, I am actually a very cautious risk taker, very cautious risk taker, and people look at my life and they don’t, they can’t see that, but they don’t see all these other decisions I’ve actually had to make. So I’ve been very, very cautious. And I, I wish I had kind of gotten more coaches in different areas. Um, and so that would, that’s, that’s what I would tell my younger self. And so that’s why now I’ve got like three coaches. I’m like, let’s just like amplify the coaches and let’s get coaches for different reasons. Right? Like, let’s just amplify it. Life is short. We wanna make, you know, have a big impact, right? And so let, let’s get it, let, let, let’s get the work done and uh, and chase it.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And you’ll learn to make the money to pay for the coach, right? I mean, that’s how it works.  Dr. Karyn Gordon: Well, that’s exactly, you know, when you do, when you do this well then the money comes. Brett Gilliland: That’s right. That’s right. Well, awesome. I loved having you on the show, uh, Dr. Karyn Gordon. We will put the links to your website, your ‘TED Talk’ and uh, to your book, uh, in the show notes. Uh, it’ll be on YouTube and all the social media platforms. So look for it there and it’s been awesome having you on the ‘Circuit of Success’. Dr. Karyn Gordon: Awesome. Thanks so much.