The Circuit of Success Podcast with Brett Gilliland

This week on The Circuit of Success, Brett Gilliland interviews guest John Ruhlin. John shares his background growing up on a farm in Ohio and his initial plan to become a doctor. However, a mentor’s generosity and the power of meaningful gifting changed his trajectory. He became the top rep for CutCo knives by gifting high-quality knives to CEOs and building strong relationships. The conversation touches on lessons learned during the pandemic, including the value of remote work and setting boundaries. John mentions his strategy of leveraging technology and being selective about in-person engagements. Tune in for insights on John Ruhlin’s journey and the Giftology approach. The Circuit of Success Brett Gilliland: [00:00:00] All right. Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland. Today I’ve got my buddy John Ruhlin. And John, what’s up dude? John Ruhlin: Thanks for having me. How you doing, dude? I’m great. Did you Brett Gilliland: throw up, punch anybody today John Ruhlin: playing basketball? I did. I, I throw, uh, Scotty, so I did. I felt so bad, and then he drained to three and I’m like, I didn’t, I didn’t throw. Chop ’em hard enough. Exactly. Brett Gilliland: Didn’t hit you hard enough, man. Well, uh, you are John Ruland. You are the author of Giftology. You are an advisor, you’re a speaker, man. You’re going all over the world and, uh, you’re making some things happen, man. It’s been fun to watch. Well, John Ruhlin: it’s, uh, I’ve been very fortunate. I got a lot of people in my corner, Brett Gilliland: so. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that doesn’t just happen by accident, so we’re gonna, we’re gonna get that out of you today. I know you’re a humble guy and you won’t wanna chat about it, but it’s my job to make you talk about it. You can, we can go anywhere you want to go. All right. Well, uh, if you can though, man, uh, we, we did this about five years ago, maybe five and a half years ago, right? When I was starting the podcast, God, probably almost six years ago. And, uh, now here we are again, but for those people that don’t know John Ruland, man, give us a little backstory. What’s made you, the man you are today, kind of your upbringing and, and kinda get us [00:01:00] to where we’re at now and what we’ll talk about here John Ruhlin: in a little bit. Yeah, so I didn’t grow up in any, you know, any of the cool towns, LA, Austin, Nashville. I grew up in Ohio Farm kid. 47 acres, you know, milking goats every morning. Uh, so learned what I didn’t wanna do the rest of my life. Yeah. Although ironically, we just bought 40 acres. I think I was talking to you about land early on. Um, and just got 20 chickens and it’s kind of going back to my roots Yeah. Of, uh, of, you know, the farm, the, the, uh, baling hay, all that kind of stuff. And, uh, I thought I’d go make my mom proud and is gonna go be a doctor, uh, chiropractor, do some something holistic, functional. And, uh, God got ahold of my life. I had had a, a mentor who is a law firm owner and he, when you’re poor, you grow up poor. You notice some people are generous, like that just seems weird. And he was always doing things radically, generously. And because of that, he was the most light, trusted and top of mind dude in town. Yeah. Every deal came his way, every referral. And I saw how seeds he had planted 30 years before with no, like, wasn’t like [00:02:00] an expectation or like strings attached, like. He would love on somebody, do something. 30 years later, they’re in a position of, you know, inherited real estate or whatever it was. And who did they call? They called Paul. Why? Because of the relationship. So I was interning with Cutco at the time, desperate to pay for med school, uh, hoping it would last this summer in my fourth appointment, I pitched Paul the knives and, uh, which is, you know, everybody thinks they have hard, like selling insurance, financial services like pro sports, like. Selling knives to your girlfriend’s dad, right. The most weird, awkward, but Paul didn’t make me feel weird. He’s like, John, I, uh, he bought a set for himself and his three unmarried girls, daughters. And then he comes back to me with this question, which, like, who asked this? John, I wanna help your, your goals. What else can I do for you? That’s literally how he led his life. So I rack my brain. I’m like, Paul’s always giving things away. Clients, employees, all of his, all of his clients were like CEOs of million and billion dollar companies, and they’re all into the outdoors. So I pitch ’em, the pocket knives are like a few hundred dollars.[00:03:00] And, uh, so a week later before church. Weird, you know, but he didn’t make me feel weird. He said, John, I don’t wanna wear the pocket knives. I’m like, I, I understand. He’s like, I do wanna order something though. I’m like, What’s that? He’s like, I’m gonna order a bunch of these, you know, the chef knives, the pairing knives, like you wanna give a bunch of CEOs of like million and billion dollar companies, like Kitchen Tool Y. And he said, John, the reason I have more referrals and deal flow and access all these outcomes we want in business is I found out if you take care of the family and business, everything else seems to take care of itself. So that was the lightning bolt moment. I started to, instead of buying beer in college, I was buying knife stats for CEOs of big insurance companies. And Coco’s worked with about 2 million reps in 70 years, we became their number one rep in the history of the company. Wow. By, you know, we call it Giftology, but really it’s, it’s how do you show up in powerful, unique, memorable ways for relationships, whether that’s your employees, whether that’s your clients, your suppliers. And so I put med school on hold and started this little business around it, and that was 23 years ago. Amazing. Brett Gilliland: Absolutely amazing. So now what’s [00:04:00] the, uh, what’s the vision with your 40 acres? What, what do you see there? Yeah, John Ruhlin: well, I mean, it’s, uh, the goal is to slow down. I read a book recently, a venture of mine’s been challenging me to, to shift my thinking. Actually, Matthew’s one of the guys that’s been challenging me to like, Matthew Kelly. He’s like, you know, book’s done well. It’s sold a hundred thousand copies, you know, as a self-published book, multiple languages. Like that’s, you know, average business book sells four or 500 copies, and then it fizzles out. So I’m grateful for that, but he’s like, you’re, you’re only leveraging your IP like 3% of what it could be. Mm. And uh, and then the other book that I read called Becoming a King talks about how as men, we’ve kind of outsourced everything and all we do is think and we don’t get our hands dirty and it’s not good for our soul. And so like, I’ve been like things on a, on a spreadsheet that normally I’d be like out, you know, delegating, like mowing the lawn or picking up a chainsaw or a weed eater. Yeah. All those things I’ve gone back to. And I’ve noticed it connects me to my girls. It connects me to nature, it connects me to like my faith. It’s like it’s been a [00:05:00] shift, but it doesn’t make sense on paper. Yeah, right. And so for me, part of the 40 acres was to be more intentional about slowing down. And everybody says they wanna slow down. Everybody says they wanna be less busy. But a lot of times, myself included, our priorities are not geared towards where I’m putting boundaries in place and shifting things and actually doing the things I say I want to do. I’m just talking about it. Yeah. My wife will call me like, You’re good at talking. Are you like, are you, you really Brett Gilliland: slowing down? Yeah. You’re really good at at John Ruhlin: talking. Like, are you really gonna follow through on these things and actually do the things with the girls? And so we got chickens, but like I drug my feet cuz I was like, man, that’s gonna be time and energy and effort. It’s like, dude, clean up all this stuff. Yeah. If you’re. You know, talk about slowing down and, and getting your hands dirty and then just like talk about it for five years, which I did. I did, I talked about it for a long time, but like once we bought the land and now like actually doing it, I’m like, man, like it feels good. It’s one thing to get a workout at the gym, it’s another thing to go out and freaking work in the sun with the chainsaw. I’ve worked muscles. I haven’t worked in [00:06:00] 40 Brett Gilliland: years. I, you know, I like it, man. I, we have some land as well, but I like being out there and I like my boys knowing how to work a chainsaw and a knife and an ax and all that stuff too. And I think. For me, it is fun to get out there and just kind of take it all in, man, take in nature and, and enjoy that stuff. And I’m sure we could compare stories. You’ve got four girls? I do. I’ve got four boys. You know, Different worlds at our houses. Very, John Ruhlin: yeah. I, Michael Hyatt has five girls and he, and he jokes that he, you know, he consistently has estrogen poisoning. Exactly. And, uh, and so like you have, you know, plenty of testosterone running through the house. There’s Brett Gilliland: there’s plenty of it. There’s plenty of it. No doubt. Let’s, um, one of the, I usually like to ask it at the end, but it, it’s been on my mind a lot lately, is what did you learn from the pandemic Man? We were, you know, we’re shut down for all this time. What was some of the biggest learnings that you had as a leader? You are, and the people you surround yourself with? Some thoughts you can share with our listeners on that? Yeah, John Ruhlin: I, I mean, I think, I mean, we’re fortunate, we’ve been virtual for 14 years, so all of our employees outside of a videographer are out. Inside the area. I’m the only [00:07:00] one that’s here. Yeah. Um, so it confirmed that it’s possible to, to run a business remote and Yeah. And uh, but I think one of the biggest things for me, and I think part of it is just my wiring. I have a fear of missing out and like, I wanna be in the room, I wanna be doing the thing. And I realized I don’t have to be in the room all the time. Like I could say no to probably 60, 70, 80% of the things. And still like, Have a successful business. And so I doing things from afar and, and really, you know, the core part of our agency on the gifting side is I can help somebody hit, you know, 400 cities and one day without jumping on an airplane, without going to a stage. And I knew that, but I, I didn’t always practice, you know, like I would still have that inkling of like, wanting to show up in it. And I’d be in a room and I’d be like, I didn’t really need to be here. And I think that the pandemic got me more focused on, and so my travel’s down from the peak, you know, probably 10, 15 years ago, it’s down 80%. You know, with the video, I look, I’ll take the [00:08:00] same stage I’m on, you know, big stage. I’ll cut it into 40 clips. So it looks like I’m on 40 stages, right? I’m really on like one a month, two a month at the most. Mm-hmm. And so I, I’ve, you know, tightened up the boundaries and I still have some room to go on Yeah. On that of saying no and, uh, and being able to, to leverage being home. Brett Gilliland: So what’s the ultimate vision with that though? Because, I mean, I think it, you still gotta be out there, right? I always say you gotta go play in traffic. Yeah. So you gotta go play in traffic and your business and, and whether it’s my business, financial services, or your business, So how, how do you do that? Stay home more, but yet still play in traffic. John Ruhlin: So one of the things I, I’ve realized is, um, I’m in a different season with my kids being 12 to three. Yep. I’ll, I’ll buy somebody’s plane ticket and fly them to me. Okay. I’ll host them here versus me going to them. I used to just, I’ll jump on the plane. Well, there’s power in being able to say, You know, come, let’s, let’s hang here, let’s do this. Like, I’ll fly, I’m gonna fly you. Or like, so I think there’s ways to get creative about that. And I think [00:09:00] that there’s, um, you know, once I shake somebody’s hand and spend time with them, like, and, and build that bridge, like, it’s amazing what you can do with a text or FaceTime or Zoom once you’ve established that connection. And so I do think that, and picking the right rooms to be in, like if I’m gonna go somewhere, typically it’s gonna be on stage. Why? Well, I’m able to impact thousands, hundreds, or thousands or tens of thousands of people. And the power of the podcast, I mean, I’ll sell more books off of being on a mid-level podcast that nobody’s ever heard of than being on Fox News nationally. Why? Because somebody’s getting to spend 60 minutes diving into and connecting with. I mean, what would you like? A big stage for me would be on, you know, a 10, 10,000 person stage. I. Yep. I mean, there’s plenty of podcasts that have 10,000 Yeah. Listeners and sometimes the right listeners and they’re getting more intimately connected and then they have a follow up to go connect with you on your website or whatever else. So I’ve realized like, you know, there’s a lot of pieces of technology that allow us to scale and I think [00:10:00] most people, myself, at times included, are more busy with all of these leverage points. Like that doesn’t make any sense. Yeah. Like, we should be able to do more with significantly less. And I, I find myself, you know, yeah, I need to play in traffic, but I need to pick the right intersection. Right, right. And then go be really intentional and fricking dominate that intersection and then get the heck out. Yeah. Versus like piddling around and doing stuff that really doesn’t need to be done. Tell us just Brett Gilliland: for, uh, perspective, right? Because being the author of Giftology, the author of Giftology, you, you’ve had some amazing stages you’ve been on where you’ve given pretty amazing gifts. And then you’ve done things that nobody sees that maybe you sent something to somebody and it opened up the door for you to get what you wanted. But I, cause I know the price tag on some of these things and, and I know, but, but you believe enough in gifting that thing, whatever that widget is, right? That, that will you have enough faith that it’s gonna open up a door [00:11:00]that’s gonna pay for that. Thing again that you bought 10 x because of what you’ve done. So walk us through some of those examples so people can get a perspective of what you John Ruhlin: actually do. Well, what’s what’s interesting is almost even small companies will have marketing budgets, biz dev sponsorship, affiliate, Facebook ads. Like if you look at somebody’s like overall sales and marketing and even HR budget to bring in the right talent. Yep. You know, even a small company is probably investing seven figures in that. Like if you have a hundred employees, even your health insurance for your employees. Yeah. Probably is $2 million a year. Yeah. And, and business owners signed that check, they don’t even think twice about it. Yeah. And nobody’s like crying or writing home and being like, oh my gosh, they offer a health insurance and 401K match. Right. But it costs us, as business owners a crap ton of money. We get no upside. It’s table stakes. So what we’ve, what I’ve realized with gifting is it’s really just a way to be the purple cow Seth Godin’s concept of, you know, or a blue ocean. Yep. And. I might not win every time I do. Like, you know, for Vaynerchuk, we did a 40 or 50,000 [00:12:00] art piece on stage at a crisp event. One of the biggest, I couldn’t, it was pit bull’s old stage down in Atlanta. I couldn’t make it from one side of the stage to the other side. It was at the big Marriott Marquis, you know, it was, I bet you they invested just in the stage in the speakers alone, $6 million. And the guy I know that like 10, 10 years ago was operating out of a one bedroom apartment. Like he’s grown this stage incredibly now. So can I stop you there Brett Gilliland: for a second? So, so Gary V you get the deal, you get the, is this the rec I’m speaking? Yeah. Okay. You’re okay. So you’re speaking, you know he’s gonna be there, you know, you want to obviously meet Gary V. He’s, yeah, John Ruhlin: I partnered with Michael. We split the cost on this piece and, um, And so people are like, dude, like 50 grand or even 25 grand, why would you do that? And I’m like, if you wanted to get, you know, if it said you’re gonna hire an assistant, you’ll pay 50 grand a year. Yeah. If you wanted to get Gary as a sales rep for your brand, you could offer him a few million dollars and he’d turn you down. Right. I’ve literally like, like the guy we did, the Brooks Brothers, we did 25 grand for him, Cameron Harold, five, six books. People are like, dude, 25 grand, why did you [00:13:00] do that? I’m like, I can tie back. Over a seven. Over seven figures of deals that have come from that one relationship. Mm-hmm. Show me that’s a 50 x r o r return on relationship, show me another Facebook ad or whatever else like you. There’s no, it’s usually like put in a dollar, get $2 back. But with the right relationships, you put in a dollar into the right employee and you get a hundred dollars back, you put in the right client or center of influence or partner, you get $50 back or maybe a thousand dollars back. Like it’s usually humans. Yeah. And so, so many people are like John, like you’re just being lavish and ridiculous. And I’m like, no. Like I’m actually a practical farm kid. And I’ve seen that this little area over here, because nobody takes it serious. It’s like this redheaded snapshot, like really gifting, like Yeah. Oh, that’s cute. Oh, that’s fun. Like isn’t that the thing you do at Christmas? Like no. Like this is how you show up powerfully to move people to influence. And what do I win every time I do that? No. I might have, I might do that for 20 people and five of them might turn out to be duds, or they might be dormant for a decade. Like [00:14:00] the Cubs took me seven years to land. Dr. Horton the largest builder in the, in the country, seven years to land. Most people give up after, but most people say they’re playing the long game and they give up after seven days or seven months. Right. And so my challenge to people is, is that you say people matter. You say you’re all about relationships, but most people only do things at transactional times and when you can show up powerfully for people, when most people are doing the dinners and rounds of golf and ballgame tickets, which is all fine, but everybody in every industry entertains and loves on their relationships the exact same way. What do you do for your employees? All we offer health insurance. Cool. What do you do that’s unique that makes people tell your story at dinners that they’re at and gets their family to want to come work for you? Yep. Well for us, we pay for house cleaning every of the week. Every employee that works for a Giftology costs us a few grand. That’s the benefit they tell at dinner stories. That’s that at family gatherings and whatever else. There’s a line of people that wanna work for us because we’re showing up differently for employees, clients, partners. And so it’s not about being lavish, it’s [00:15:00] actually about like, I need to be different cuz I can’t outspend my publicly traded competitors. Right. So I gotta be creative. I gotta be thoughtful. Not just check a box, not just give, you know, oh, we, we do referral gifts. That’s dumb. Don’t do a referral gift. That’s transactional. Yeah. Show up for your clients and your employees and your partners and your centers of influence as it just because, so the timing matters. So there’s all of these different things. So, so at Gary V. Yeah. 50 a lot, but there’s, you know, there’s other times where it might be five K or $500. Or $50, right? Like it’s not the dollar amount. It’s like, but it, most people put themselves into a box in this gifting realm and they say the same person they’re taking to the Super Bowl or the Masters for 10 20 grand a person, and then they’re giving them a hundred dollars Patagonia vest with their logo on it, right? One one’s level 10 and one is like a negative three. Yeah. I’m gonna go over in this little negative three area, and even if I just get somebody to be a five, Everybody else is like, it’s just stands out so far and above. So [00:16:00] it’s uh, it’s a fun game to play. Just most people don’t understand the game. You gotta Brett Gilliland: be creative and you gotta have the. You know what’s to do it right? I mean, to spend the 25, 50 grand to go out and do it with the hopes that Gary v gives you five minutes. John Ruhlin: Right? Right. Yeah. And so, I mean, you know, Vayner is a client now. S like, actually they, he was a client before I, I, why not? Because of Gary is because of cmo. Like what we were doing. Yeah. DRock, his video guy liked what we were doing. His president of his, of Sasha, the consulting firm. Yep. Like what we were doing. So, so many times people are like, John, I wanna take care of my clients. We’re gonna do golf, we’re gonna do bourbon. I’m like, I don’t care what the guys or gals like that are the decision makers. What’s their spouse like, what’s their assistant like? So a lot of the things we do are like, to this day, we still do a a crap ton with the knives. Why? Because most people, what do they do when they gather? Whether you make 50 grand or $5 million, you gather in the home, you break bread with loved ones, your inner circle, and you spend time together celebrating. And so 80 to 90% of the things we do in all industries, all sides of the companies, whether employees, clients, partners, doesn’t [00:17:00] matter. They’re humans. Are still kitchen oriented, are still hospitality oriented. It’s silly. Brett Gilliland: You sent me knives probably six years ago and they’re still maybe even longer. Yeah, maybe even longer ago. They’re still in my kitchen. The number one knife used, it’s Brett and Julia Gillan and family. It’s got a visionary logo on it. It, it’s phenomenal. Right. And the kids like the knives. I mean, they’re the best knives you can get. John Ruhlin: I got a call. This month from somebody. They had three partners. They’re one of the larger real estate investment firms. We had worked with them eight, nine years ago and, uh, it kind of fizzled. One of the, one of the partners didn’t like the idea and I get a call from the, one of the other partners he had left. He said, John, I’ve been thinking about you every single day for the last seven years. And as soon as I went out on my own, I partnered with these billionaire guys out of Wisconsin. We’re doing, we’re doing industrial real estate. He’s like, I got a bunch of relationships I need to appreciate and engage. And who was the first person I thought of you? You, cuz the stupid knives. Subconsciously. Consciously, right? I’m thinking you, [00:18:00] you have the one like. The one square foot of real estate on somebody’s countertop. Yep. If you can be like, trusted and top of mind, well, most people might be liked, right? Hey, you’re fun. Hey, trusted. Yeah. You’re good at what you do. Yep. But they’re not top of mind cuz most people are getting bombarded with a hundred thousand texts and tos and whatever else. And so who gets the referral? Who gets the deal? Who gets the phone call? Yep. The person who’s thought of in those scenarios and most people just aren’t thought of. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s crazy. Good stuff, man. What, um, let’s talk about some of the personal side that we can, like from a daily habit standpoint. Yeah. So like, what are the things, I walked in here day, I’m like, man, you’re looking kind of buff, right? So, so what are the habits that John Ruland is doing every day? To make sure you’re living and being there for your, your wife, your kids, your business. What are those John Ruhlin: things? Yeah. I mean, you can’t take care of somebody if you don’t take care of yourself. Yeah. And so for me, um, about five and a half years ago, I, I started, I ballooned up, I was at two 80 and part of it was the travel stress where tear entrepreneur, [00:19:00] all those things, all those excuses. And you go to dinners and like the wines pour and the, and the, the bread. Bread and all that, steaks and pasta and appetizers. And so I was like, man, I’m, I’m, like I say, I’m all about like holistic health and wellness and like, I’m not. I, I mean, I look at, I look at pictures that people will find for podcasts and they, they’ll find the old ones of me in like a suit jacket. Like, no. And I’m like, please don’t do that. Like when we went to Australia, that was the one that they put on the screen and I was like, talk about like eating humble pie and like, just like humility. So for me, like I starts with health. I get up early. Um, I. Either I play basketball a couple times a week or I’ll go to the gym and lifting is big for me. Like I’m not a big cardio guy. I think, um, I have mentors that are in the health and wellness space and like we have a lack of muscle. And as you get older, if you don’t have muscle, like that changes everything. Uh, and so for me, like lifting, um, sauna almost every day, if not every day, and then cold plunge and then fasting and so [00:20:00] like, um, last, last year. I probably fasted 10 times. Uh, five day water and coffee only. Um, for me, like I’m not a moderation kind of person, so like I, I can be like, like the people that are like, oh, I just, I ate a, I ate a subway, a Turkey sub, and I just cut out Coke and I like dropped 40 pounds. That wasn’t me. Like, I had to be like all in, all in and really diligent and, and keto and, and, and really focused on that. Um, and for me, like, I spend a lot of time, you know, reading and, um, and diving into podcasts like I’m a learner. Um, you know, I, I love, uh, being around other people and so I, I do have. Um, you know, some, some, uh, masterminds and things that I’m a part of, but in general, like my day-to-day routine is focused on overall health and, and slowing down enough. And then the last thing I’ll just say is breath work. Um, for me that’s like tied into like almost a meditative state. Um, but the whim hof stuff kind of tied in with the cold plunge tank, um, has been huge for me. It’s a [00:21:00] game Brett Gilliland: changer, isn’t it? It is really? It, the, the, the cold plunge doesn’t get easier. John Ruhlin: No. Brett Gilliland: Are you, do you have an actual plunge? Like John Ruhlin: Yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah. Mosco. Yeah. It, the, you, um, built friendship with the guys who started the company. They, they, uh, they’re really kind of like engineers at heart. Yeah. And, uh, They the same one that Rogan uses. Okay. Yeah. Um, so it’s not a cheap date. No, but it’s the, the wood kind of more of like Yeah, yeah. Like rustic one. Yeah. Uh, and we’ve actually started to gift those to people, like talk about like a fun gift, like Steve Weatherford, NFL’s fitness guy. We sent one to him with his favorite Bible verses and whatever else. And you know, now it’s a part of his daily practice. Right. But to me, like that’s one of those things that most people wouldn’t necessarily go buy for themselves. But talk about weaving into somebody’s daily practice. Like the Brett Gilliland: whole, so, so again, even go there with that gift to Steve. So, you know, I follow him on social media, dudes. He’s, he’s crazy. Oh, he’s fun. John Ruhlin: Next time he comes through to preach, he pro he preached up in, um, not St. Joseph, two or three, three hours north of here at a big church in the middle of nowhere. Uh, and we had to, [00:22:00] I, I met up with him yeah. Near the airport and we hung out for like an hour. Yeah, he’s a wild dude. But he, he seems like loves. People loves Jesus. Yeah. He’s just a great human. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what is your hope for that? Obviously you care about people, you love on people, there’s like an ulterior motive there, but like what’s your hope when you send a however many thousands of dollars of Asana to John Ruhlin: Steve? Um, so I split it. So a lot of times the bigger things like that, um, I’ll find somebody else that wants to love on him or bless him too. In this, in this case, probably one of the most radically generous humans I’ve ever met is Joel Marion. He had, he had a company called BioTrust. Okay? It’s a huge podcast called, uh, born to Impact, and I’m born again. Like his, I, his, he feels called to impact people from a faith perspective, but he built a few hundred million dollar, uh, uh, Supplement company and sold it. Uh, him and his partner, um, incredible. But he’s, he was the guy that would like, get all of his competitors together, love on them, and bring ’em together to learn. And he literally, like, we probably have done eight art pieces together. [00:23:00] Like I, if I have an idea, nine out of 10 times, Joel just says, yes, okay. Hey, you wanna split this Cuz that he just, but because of that, And there’s never an ask. It’s not like give something and then like ask for the deal or the referral. Right? Like he’s just planting seeds and kind of the Harvey McKay concept of Dig your Well before you’re thirsty. Yeah. And for Steve, I didn’t ha we didn’t have an ask. There’s a dude who’s out there who’s busting his butt. Yep. You know, dealt with addiction and almost got divorced, but he’s out there like, Crushing life and and impacting people. He’s gonna influence a lot of dudes. Like Yeah, oftentimes, like it might be five years from now, he’ll be with somebody in a boardroom and he’ll connect and say, Hey, you need to connect with Ruland. Yeah. I don’t know what that’s gonna be, but I know if, if I, I identify somebody who’s a leader, a giver, and up to big things, um, you know, You make a deposit there, it’s gonna grow into something. It’s gonna, yeah. And, and if it’s not that it’ll pay it forward Brett Gilliland: to somebody else. And I, I think about, so in, in the circuits of success, hence the name of the podcast, attitude, your beliefs, your actions get results. [00:24:00] But from beliefs to actions, I have this thing, it’s faith. I mean your faith, obviously there’s faith in God, but there’s also faith in gifting, right? Oh yeah. I mean, your faith in the fact, I don’t know. I got nothing I need from Steve. But maybe one day he’s gonna turn around and he’s gonna say my name, and then all of a sudden it’s, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars, whatever it John Ruhlin: may be. That’s how God’s wired the world. Whether you believe in a God or not, like a man reaps what he sows. Like, we all know that. Like if you do good, even if you believe in something like karma, like right. Um, like what do you, what is that like if you do good things? It comes back to, and oftentimes not in ways that you like, I’d like to think like I have this perfect script of like, And I do try to play the four 4D chess game, which at some level probably has some selfish manipulation involved. But to me, like when you can give with an open hand and know, like, and not keep score and know that like, Hey, if it doesn’t happen because of you, like something good is gonna come out of that like halo effect. And I think so many people will do that in faith in [00:25:00] other areas. So. Like experientially, but they won’t do it physically, and I don’t know why. I think most people, guys in particular, struggle with gifting, even their spouse, right? Like the idea is to seem weird and woowoo and like, uh, what I might look weird or be uncomfortable, or they, they’re gonna think I want something from them. And so they talk themselves out it right from the start. Um, but I, it’s a universal principle. It’s gonna be Brett Gilliland: tough, man. When you’re the Giftology expert in the world and your John Ruhlin: wife, I mean, oh, my wife calls bs my, like you make business so you’re not Brett Gilliland: either John Ruhlin: business. I can, I can handle gifting for the, the most elite pro sports teams in the world. Yeah. But at home. She knows all my tricks, all my hacks, all my crap, all my excuses, all my, I see where this is going. Yeah. Like, but you know, there are times where I like, you know, knock it out of the park. Yeah. And like, it’s like a grand slam. And there’s other times where I strike out and she will let me know. Yeah. Um, and so yeah, home’s the hardest. Brett Gilliland: I’m not, I’m, it is hard. I’m, I’m not great at it. But I will say my, to brag on [00:26:00] myself for this, I hit a home run. I interviewed, I didn’t put it out as a podcast, but I had her mom and dad come in. And I interviewed them and it was amazing. I mean, it was absolutely amazing. And talk about their childhood and when they met and having kids and what it was like when they were growing up and now, and see their, their, their grandkids. It’s, it actually made me think about a business idea. I’m like, I need to do that more often. Right. Yeah. With people like John Ruhlin: you read a couple of those interviews and probably turn it into a book. Yeah. That’s a great idea too. Talk about being able to pass down to your kids grandkids, great grandkids like. Some services. Services out there. Huh? Do a gilland ruling book. I mean Yeah, dude. I mean it’s, but I mean, the power of being able to pull the wisdom from them and the stories Yeah. And then put it like, there’s something powerful about it being in, in written form. Yeah. And you know, I think a lot of times people have a story to be told, but nobody’s asking the questions. Right. And they have wisdom to share and Yeah. And, and something that, like, from a legacy perspective, I know there’s companies out there that do it, but to be able to do it personally. Yeah. And, and a lot of the companies that are out there that do books, I. You know, [00:27:00] like Jesus wasn’t out there writing things down. He spoke. Yeah. And most people throughout history didn’t write things down. They spoke, somebody else wrote it down. So you could, yeah. That’s If you had a, you had a couple, you had a couple more interviews with them. Yeah. Like you’d have enough for a book. Yeah. And, and would blow them away. And I think it would be, Impactful for the whole family. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: So let’s, let’s talk about, um, big things right now that you hear all the time. All over the world, right? Chat, g p T. Yeah. And obviously saw yesterday, but Apple Vision Pro. Yeah. The, yeah, the, did you see, I mean, did you watch any of the videos at all? I John Ruhlin: watched one and it’s, it’s unreal. It’s amazing. It’s, to me, it’s like, I think people in general like, are, you know, myself included, like, You know, the phone’s not far. Right? Right. It’s always in our hand. It’s always around. And like the more, like I, I went to a leadership conference and I left my phone in the room all three days straight. Didn’t, didn’t check it once during the day. Wow. Until the evening. It felt weird. It felt weird, but it ended up being freeing. Yeah, like it was amazing, like how [00:28:00]addicted I was, even if it was turned off, but it was in my bag and like, it it like constantly like pinging you in your head, right? Like just mentally like the amount of emotional ed energy there. And so yeah, the, yeah, chat G G P T I think is powerful. I think it’s scary. I think it’s awesome. I think it’s, and, uh, I think that, um, you know, it’s gonna accelerate a bunch of things, like from a, even from a gifting perspective. Yeah. Like you can like type in and like get to know somebody or like if we’re pulling, we started doing these like bigger crazy gifts where like a big 10 K knife set, we might put quotes of that. They’ve said, well, I can get like anybody that’s relatively famous Right. I can get 80 of their quotes of wisdom instead of having to research and have my team research. Yeah. I can pull 15 seconds. 15 seconds and pulls it all up for, for some of these big celebs. So like there are elements of it that are cool, but there’s also like, can you, you might need to confirm that they actually said it, because right now it’s not, it’s not a hundred percent accurate. And sometimes the info that you get back, it’s like that’s what’s on the [00:29:00] surface. But like a lot of times, like in order to get somebody to cry or be moved at a soul level, like you have to get to the 1% of the 1%. Yeah. And. It’s hard to get the essence of a human just by the headlines. You gotta go a little deeper and ask the deeper questions. And I think that that’s the area where there’s nuance that Yep. That, uh, whatever your industry is like, if you have the ability to speak into the 1%, like, I think at least for now, like you, you know, you’ll be able to chop or charge top dollar for that. Yeah, for sure. Brett Gilliland: I, I think what, what scares me about it is the critical thinking that I hope it doesn’t take away from our kids. Right. I, I forget us. We’ve been around long enough, we’re gonna be able to use it, use it to our advantage, but still have those relationships and different things. But are these kids gonna have, you know, I wanna know, blah, blah, blah. And they find out in 13 seconds versus having to, you know, when we were kids, you had to go back and look for the, in the DS or the encyclopedia, right? Yeah, yeah. And now with Google and Chad gpt and all these things, I’m not trying to sound like the old crabby guy, but it’s just, I hope they continue to think for themselves and think [00:30:00] differently. Versus the computer doing it. And then, then we’re not all wearing these goggles that look amazing and do all these things, and it looks like you’re in a movie. That, that’s my fear. And I love technology. I hope it does the right thing, but it, it is a little bit of John Ruhlin: a fear for me. Yeah. Well, when the person walked into the room and she was wearing the, the goggles, they, the person wasn’t, yeah. Like that to me is like super awkward. Right. And they can Brett Gilliland: still see each other. She like waved at John Ruhlin: her. Yeah. Oh yeah. You can see through the, yeah, you can see that person’s eyes, but it’s still like, There’s an element of like, and, and maybe it’s like the phone thing, like you just get kind of used to it. Yeah. Um, but at some level, like there’s something powerful about old school. Like Yeah. You know, you’re not putting it into a, a device. You’re, there’s something powerful about writing it down. They probably see it right Brett Gilliland: over your shoulder. All those, those are some July of 2005, these journals. I mean, there’s power in that man. Yeah. Um, you said earlier, R o r Return on relationships. Yeah. Talk to me about that. John Ruhlin: Well, I mean, I think in, in business, I think gifting and in what we talk about is viewed very much as like an expense, or it’s viewed [00:31:00] very much as like a nice two, not a have to, and in any part of your business you’re, you know, you’re measuring things like operations, finance, marketing, you know, hr, like, Stock market, whatever, like you’re measuring it, there’s metrics there. And I don’t think most people have put a metric to, you know, the power of their network, the power of their relationships, the power of the people that work for them. And I think that to me, there’s no greater return than investing in humans. And whether that’s physically or experientially or whatever. Yeah. But like the investment there and like when you start to think about the businesses that people have created, it typically was a lot of humans that. Allowed them that inve, mentors, coaches, teachers. Yeah, for sure. Like bankers, suppliers, you know, advisors, all of those people allowed them to get there. And I think we undervalue the power of the right people being in our corner. And so, like, to me, RO r is like one of the most powerful tools of like thinking about like, Hey, yeah, ROI on marketing. Cool. But like, are you, are you measuring the relationships and the return on [00:32:00] relationship is, is, uh, To me is one of the, the best things on the planet. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: Well, I mean, ROI in my business, right? Returning investment, but returning relationship with the investment with our clients is, I mean, that John Ruhlin: relationship is huge. Yeah. I mean there’s, I mean, how many financial wealth man, like what people that put themselves in that, that, yeah. That bucket. Half a million. Yeah. There’s Yeah. Brett Gilliland: Hundreds of thousands of them. Yeah. Yeah. John Ruhlin: What, what it comes down to what the hu Like do they know me? Right? They do. Are, are they on my, they care about me. Do they care about me? Like it comes down to an emotional Yeah. Connection, though. You can justify numbers all day long and you’ll actually take lesser performance if you’re like, this person’s in my corner, they care about me and they’re in this for the long haul. For sure. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I call it Pandora’s Box. My job is if you were a client sitting there, right? I gotta unlock that box and find out what truly matters, what’s important, what makes you tick, what you wanna leave behind. I mean, all those things are, they’re, they’re critically important. So, um, as we close, actually, before we go there, so what, what would you tell the person that’s listening right now that says, oh man, this dude’s talking about [00:33:00] sending $50,000 saunas, or whatever. Right. They have a $500 budget. Right. What, what can they be doing that they’re not doing right now? Yeah. John Ruhlin: Well, what I would say is that what we’re talking about isn’t industry specific or business size specific. Like I have, I have sales reps that, you know, work for technology companies that are reinvesting a percentage of their business and treating it like they’re the owner. So if you made, you know, 200 grand last year, reinvest a tie, 10%, that’s 20 grand. So when people say they have a limited budget, right? I’m like, Well, you, you’re spending, you know, 40 grand a month on Facebook ads, or you’re spending this much to sponsor this conference for a hundred grand. Like I always challenge the numbers, right. Cuz even I have college kids that are like investing $500 a month in this. Yeah. So there’s, there’s always dollars there if you view it to have value. Right. And so to me it’s not so much the dollar amount. It’s like if you don’t, if you’re gonna send something expensive or cheap, if you don’t put a handwritten note with it. There’s no thoughtfulness Meaning context. Yeah. It’s not [00:34:00] one-to-one. So a lot of the clients, like, we’ll work with casinos or insurance companies, and they’re like, yeah, we wanna send this out to a thousand people. And uh, I’m like, and they’re gonna order it from, you know, they’re gonna take our consulting, they’re gonna order it from Amazon. I’m like, you guys might as well just. Stop right there. Yeah. If you are gonna automate it through some technology platform and it feels like a marketing thing, don’t expect a deeper relationship and don’t, don’t expect the r o r cuz it was marketing, right? It’s not relationship. And so a lot of the details around how it’s packaged, even when it shows up, most people do ABC gifting, anniversaries, birthdays, Christmas. They do expected obligatory things. If I do that for my wife, if I show up on Valentine’s Day, I get no credit. Right? If I, you gotta do that, you have to do that. And so if you show up for relationships, so a lot of the recipe isn’t in the dollars spent, it’s in the thoughtful thought. So many people are like, John, I, I spent this money, it didn’t work. And I’m like, you can’t be a douche bag and give great gifts. Like you have to be a person. You have to do the details. Like there’s parts of the recipe that are not just the [00:35:00] cost. Brett Gilliland: Recipe’s a good way to John Ruhlin: put it. Yeah. And so $500 you could do something amazing. Um, $5,000, $50. It doesn’t, the dollar amount doesn’t matter. It’s more around the overall like thought process. Yeah. And put in the odds in your favor where you’re not doing it once like. You’re like, this is a, like, there’s compound interest of like showing up for multiple people this way over time versus I did it once, it didn’t work. And I’m like, that’s not how life works. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Does not. Let’s, um, I pulled up my phone here. We’re gonna have some fun. We’re gonna go to, uh, what’s your Instagram John Ruhlin: at John Ruland? Brett Gilliland: John Ruland. Have a little fun here. All right. Pick a number between one and 10. Three. Okay. Now pick a number between one and three. Two. Two. Hey, we already talked about this. This is you. If you can see it on the camera or not. This is you picking up Steve Weatherford in the minivan. Exactly. [00:36:00] With the Superbowl trophy. Lamborghini baby. Oh yeah. So let’s talk about that. So I, I like this game and I’m gonna pick another one that’s on that same row. Uh, Sarah Blakely shot you out here. Yeah, that’s pretty cool because of the nice Spanx. So talk about John Ruhlin: that. Yeah, so Sarah, well, she’s an EO person, so eo ypo, so that’s a group that I speak to a lot. Um, you know, it’s CEOs that are leading companies and, and, uh, there’s chapters all over the world. Sarah’s been a member for 20 years. I’ve built a friendship with her and her husband, Jesse Itzler, who’s, you know, stud. Just a stud, stud speaker. Started marquee jets, sold it back to net jets, started zco. Is it Ziko Water? Yeah. Yeah. Ziko Water now. He’s one of the best speakers in the world. Yeah. But I, it, it, over a number of years I built a friendship with them. He became a fan of Giftology Of the book. Yeah. And, um, but I was like, I’m gonna make deposits in, and you know, she has certain quotes. She has her little mugs that she drinks out of. Yeah. Yeah. And, Uh, we sent her like one of these crazy, you know, couple thousand dollars treasure chest. And, but I put a knife in there because I know that she, [00:37:00] she loves Casa Deese tequila. Yeah. And she travels literally with her own fresh grapefruit juice. So I, I sent her a grapefruit knife with, with, you know, her name on it, but the quote, And um, and you know, people send her a lot. These kinda people get things all the time. Yeah. It’s the story and the personalization. And she was using the knife years later and she’s like, I’m thinking about, you know, John rule. I love this knife. And she posts about it, you know, to her hundreds of thousands of people. Same with itzler. Like, you know, we’ve, uh, you know, I’ve been invited over to their house to hang out with their four kids and of course we sauna, steam and cold plunge and do the thing, but. We’ve made deposits in those relationships to where we’re top of mind, we get shout outs, but more importantly, like we, you know, we always want people to, to return our phone call or texts. Like you just wanna be in relationship with them. Yeah. And those deposits help. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: That’s incredible, man. Well, um, working our listeners find more of John Ruland. John Ruhlin: I would say, I mean, if, if, uh, if you wanna avoid the worst gifts on the planet just to like [00:38:00] get into the top 5%, you can go to the givers with an s the giver’s edge and get a little download of kind of like, you don’t have to go by the book. Yeah. Just go like, just go right there. Just start to get like a framework of like what to do and not to do. Um, I mean, at John Ruland on, on Instagram and, um, you know, Giftology Group is the main website to, uh, to dive into Brett Gilliland: Giftology. Yeah. Got it. Awesome man. Well thanks so much for being with me on the circuit Success. Always great to catch up and, uh, great to see you, my man. And, uh, love watching you, what you’re doing. It’s awesome. Thanks brother. So thanks so much.  

Join host Brett Gilland on the Circuit of Success as he interviews Dr. Craig Thayer, a surgeon, bestselling author, radio show co-host, and motivational speaker. Together, they discuss various topics related to personal growth and success. Dr. Thayer emphasizes the importance of taking a leap of faith and the logistical aspects of achieving one’s goals while sharing his journey and the events that shaped him into the person he is today. Now, he is on a mission to inspire and motivate others to live their lives to the fullest which means finding your own thing and placing the bet on yourself. Tune in for an inspiring conversation covering perseverance, personal testimony, and an abundance mentality. https://youtu.be/QylRClEHr3c     Brett Gilliland: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilland, and this week I’ve got Dr. Craig Thayer with me. Craig, how you doing? I’m doing great. Thank you sir. Good. Well, it’s good to be with you today. You’re calling, uh, you’re videoing in from northwest Georgia. How’s, uh, things cooking in Georgia right now? Dr. Craig Thayer: Actually, it’s a beautiful day today, so about 72. A little breeze and um, thank you. No rain. Yeah, it’s beautiful. Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. It’s been windy as hell here. I don’t know what’s going on, but I look around, I’m looking at my kids’ sporting events. I’m like standing there, you can barely stand up. It’s so windy. I say it’s a two club wind, you know, for golf. So it’s a little breezy lately. I don’t know why, but, uh, so anyway. Well, Craig, you are, uh, you know, the, uh, surgeon, a number one bestselling author, a radio show, co-host, a motivational speaker. Man, you could have probably just, you know, laid low and just kept staying in a surgery room. But you decided not to do that, huh? And take on all this other stuff. Is that Dr. Craig Thayer: right? That’s correct. Yeah, I just, uh, I’ve discovered a newer passion [00:01:00] and that is just, um, trying to get out to talk to people and, uh, and then obviously this book that was kind of almost 15 years in the works and was. My grandmother who said, you’ve gotta do this because of what you’ve been through in your life and this is gonna motivate people. And, and, uh, she passed away August 7th, 2021, so it’s been almost two years. But yeah, so, uh, and she left a couple miracles behind when she did that. So like a clock that stopped two days later at the time of death. Cause I was there for her last breath. And then, In a, a guest bathroom that I was staying in for the last two weeks that I was there staying with her before, uh, when she died, there was a book on this, this, uh, wicker chair that had a bookmark in it, her glasses on it. And so it had been clearly read by her and that she was gonna come back and read it, but the title was gone missing. Oh, wow. [00:02:00] Wow. Coincidence. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, well, you’ve had a lot of stuff, um, in your life, and so you’re a high level leader now, like I said, motivational speaker and all that stuff. But you, uh, I, I love here it says, your passion is to inspire and motivate others to live their life to the fullest. So I want to get into that in a minute, but before we do that, if you can give us a little, uh, shed a little light if you will, on, on the things that you’ve been through in your life. Like you said, you do have a story, you’ve got your book. Um, but if you can just give us what’s made you, the man you are Dr. Craig Thayer: today. All right. I’ll give you the Reader’s Digest version. So it really kind of begins before I was born, cuz my Naturaler mother was in Michigan and gonna be married to my natural father, but not going through catechism fast enough. So she, about three days before due, went to Monterey, California, had me, held me for 10 days, and then gave me up for adoption. So I was an orphan for nine months and just saved by. Her belief in, uh, in, in, in Jesus. In, in God. [00:03:00] So, and then I, part of the adoption was that I’d Manor be raised by Catholic mom. And so who better than an Irish Catholic. My mom was 21, moved from Ireland to America and met my dad and they couldn’t have kids. And then there I am in their house. So, and they were my parents and had a strong loyalty to them growing up. They always told me that I was adopted from the beginning. It wasn’t a secret. And then I think the next thing was just making me more empathic. And that was, One night my dad, my sister and I were coming home and my dad up in the front door and on in the living room, you could see my mom on the ground passed out. And, uh, sh that’s the first time I realized she had an alcohol problem. So, wow. I was about 11 when I went to an AA meeting with her. So I got to hear what people had to say about their, their alcohol and their addictions and kind of be a better empath. And then, then junior year in high school, I took anatomy, physiology, new man. The human body’s amazing. I, I love working with my hands. I [00:04:00] gotta be a surgeon. I was cocky and said, oh, that’s, I’m gonna be a cardiac or a neurosurgeon cuz they are the really super cool ones. And then, um, and then I had a twisted intestine, so just like a week before finals my junior year. And uh, so got over that. Got back, back into the pool. I was a water polo player and a competitive swimmer. And, uh, then headed off to college in freshman year. My mom passes away sophomore year. I’m in a bicycle accident, cracked my head. I have spinal fluid coming outta my ear. Um, these are stories in the book. They’re just, how kind of God worked through my life to. You know, my mom dies all my, I was on an all male floor of my all, all my, uh, floor mates said he is not coming back. He won’t be back. There’s no way. And they knew I wanted to be a surgeon. So same thing, sophomore year, I’m in the hospital, uh, uc. Davis is a quarter system, so, Two weeks is 20% of your class. They’re like, you’ll have to make it back. You, you, you [00:05:00] can’t catch up. And if I get off series, you know, 1 28 organic chemistry, now after, take that the next quarter, I’m not gonna graduate in four years and that’s gonna screw everything up. So, um, then junior year, my dad gets diagnosed with lung cancer stage four. And that year I was an off-campus dorm in this for. If there’s folks that don’t remember about dial phones and long distance phone call costs, um, it had one phone jack against this one wall. It was a suite for five students. I was one of the two in the back. It was one room up front and I plugged that in and would call my dad, and I never got a bill. And I’m like, can you even check with the front desk? Are you guys getting charged for the, and there was never a bill. It was, I mean, you can’t explain how I had. You know, two, three hour conversations with my dad every night and not have to pay for any of it. So, and then my dad passes away between junior and senior year. My goodness. Yeah. And then, uh, [00:06:00] then, then, then I, um, I applied to med school. And I get, um, I get this, you know, if you get, I, I think I played about 18 and I could wallpaper my room with the projection notices and, uh, I finally got one. And you know, if you get a thin one that’s just like a dear John letter. You, sorry, you know, looked at you and you’re not, not a, you can’t come. So I got a thin one and it says, congratulations, you’ve not been accepted. And I’m like, what? Yeah. What kind of a letter is this? Yeah, you’re on a wait list, so you still have a chance of getting in. So, and then, uh, during the summer I get this phone call and I think it’s my friend who I’m gonna pick up from one of his classes. So I answer Craig’s taxi service. And it’s a lady uc, Davis Med School, and she says, well, it’s Craig Thayer there. And I said, oh yeah, just a second. I covered the phone. No change in voice. Not enough time to really go [00:07:00] get somebody. I’m back on the phone. I wonder what she thought and said, yeah, well, she says, you’re in. So I got into uc, Davis’ Med School and then, um, yeah, and then, um, From there, I, I, it matched at uc, Davis’s general Surgery program. And, um, I was the last resident, which that’s a six year program to hang my own shingle as a business. I had to get seven different insurances, malpractice, dental health, uh, Renters cuz I had an office, uh, workman’s comp. I mean, you, you just keep going and, but it’s a business and I never, you never really get caught into that. When you’re a resident, you just learn medicine and taking care of people. So, you know, uh, you have to come up with a p and l plan for a business loan. And I’d had some business experience with my, my dad’s death. So my mom died. She had like a $25,000 life insurance policy. My dad invested in the fourth [00:08:00] mortgage on an eight unit apartment complex, and after he died that foreclosed, so we made a, we put in the eight of us. Uh, there were eight that were on the fourth put in, um, an offer for I think the first and just ours, and we got it. So we kept it for years so that no one could come back. If we’ve approved it, we would’ve lost whatever we want, putting the money in and improving it, and then, uh, sold it for a big profit. So I was, you know, I was 21, 22. Wow. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: That’s pretty crazy. Dr. Craig Thayer: So, accelerated business program. Brett Gilliland: So you, you didn’t go off and do your, you know, get your doctorate, your, your medical degree and you become a surgeon. You do all those things and, and I’m not fast forwarding through that, but I’m always curious about how when people have a nice, successful career, And, uh, you know, I don’t know this to be true, but I would assume that you’ve done, you’ve done pretty well, I would assume, uh, in your career. Yeah. But now you’re doing these other things and I, again, I said, [00:09:00] your passion is to inspire and motivate others to live their life to the fullest. So why are you doing this? Why are you on a podcast? Why are you writing a book instead of just staying in the, uh, surgery room and collecting your check? Dr. Craig Thayer: Yeah. Um, I think a part of that was, uh, my wife wanted to get outta California just cause of. Different things going on. We homeschooled our last two. I have five kids, um, 32 today, actually the oldest. Nice. And then just turned 16. So, um, and so I, I made this, this kind of blog on my Facebook post of Uniting America. You know, America’s just so divided and there is something to be said about, I was privileged to plan a United States water polo team against Czechoslovakia, Germany, Russia. Bunch of different countries, and you just realize that, hey man, we’re all s we all bleed the same. We’re in this battle against whatever country it is. But it’s uniting, you know, it’s patriotically [00:10:00] uniting. And so, uh, a friend of mine who I literally hadn’t spoken to in 40 years, Called me and we had a two and a half hour chat about our childhood. He, he went off to a Jesuit high school life, stated public, he changed swim teams life stated, uh, Dizi went to Santa Claro, where Mark Spitz and those guys were. And he offered me a job at the end. He goes, what do you do? I’m an old school general surgeon. I got trained like a general contractor. I do head to toe. So if you had a big hematoma in your, in your, in your skull, I could drain it. If you’ve got a hole in your heart, I can open your chest, put a finger in it, so close, or I could take out your breast, colon, lung cancer, or I can do vascular stuff like carotids. And so, because I think I need you. So I had a, uh, uh, I, I said, well, we’re going off to look at Tennessee. And um, and, uh, he had a job offer like oh, two weeks after I left. So the move was kind of the [00:11:00] first step and then the Grant Cardone, uh, 10 X convention I went to and people telling me I needed that, I didn’t even know, telling me I needed to be on the stage. Um, I’m on a Boy Scout, uh, trip with my two youngest sons in Virginia at this gigantic camp that can, that can house 50,000 people. And this lady were shooting bows and, and stuff. And this lady, I said, I made some comments. She says, we need to put that in your book. And I’m like, how do you know I’m writing a book? She’s just, just, you just seem like you’d be writing a book. So, and then with just my grandmother going, you need to do this. So all these signs to me were saying, you, you need to do this as well. Cause I’ve already been on medical mission trips. I’ve been doing that to Haiti once in 2010, almost a year after the earthquake. And, um, and then every year from that to, uh, [00:12:00] Honduras and, um, it’s an outpatient surgery center. And, uh, just do a crazy number of cases on like four and a half days. Right? And so I knew, I knew I needed to serve in a different way and I was learning from these people that I really need to do it in a public way. And the book was a start to that just showing kind of the miracles in my life that got me to this position today. And, um, and that people need to be inspired. I mean, COVID had a risk benefit, right? So sheltering in was not good for us. Right. It, it, it, it, it raised women between the ages of 23 to 40 fives, suicide rate, sixfold. So, and, and we’re built together. So, so all that said, you know, and it’s difficult, I mean, kids that have been semi homeschooled, cuz the schools weren’t, you know, open or like a year and a half behind in math, over a year in something in [00:13:00] English, and, and they don’t communicate the same either. They’re. For almost a year to two years regressed. Um, so, so just getting out and gathering with people, inspiring, telling ’em my stories, um, motivating them, giving them hope that, look, you know, I suppose part of that in the book is that we, if you really, there’s some light, there’s pictures of the light that you can’t, if you really like, look at this and go, man, okay. There is a higher being, a higher power doesn’t have to be Christian, but there’s a higher power. And that being said that within Christianity anyway, you have an eternal life after that. Right. With believing. So that gives hope to a lot of people. So yeah, just my, my present goals. Brett Gilliland: So it’s basically out there, what I’m hearing is, is that we have enough, you know, I would call it just garbage, right? That comes off these cell phones every day and, and the notifications, the, the media, the, the TV news everywhere. It’s just, it, it is, it’s, it [00:14:00] is dividing and it’s, it’s terrible man. And I think people like yourself have to step up and, and you’ve been blessed with the great careers. You’ve worked your ass off, but at the same time, it’s like, Hey, let’s give back to that. Now, would you agree with that comment? Totally agree. Totally agree. Yeah. So when you see that right now, what, what are some things that you would recommend for somebody listening to this? We have a lot of successful people, right? Business owners, stay at home parents, um, athletes, whatever it may be to listen to this podcast. What advice would you have to them? They’re, they’re usually probably already doing a good job anyway, but they don’t want to take it to that next level. So what are the things that you would focus on if you were them? You don’t know what they’re doing, but if you were them, what would you be focusing on every single day? To help our country, but also more importantly, to help themselves, which ultimately helps the Dr. Craig Thayer: country. Yeah, I I, I, I think what we just talked about, so I think if you can get up and the first thing you can do if you, if you have faith in a God, is just reflect on that before your brain’s ticking over by your phone going off. Yeah. [00:15:00] Text messages that you’re getting or something. And then, and then, uh, for those that can exercise early in the morning, I think that’s great. Um, but you know, what I’m talking about is a routine. So some habits that are healthy for you and your brain, and then, um, you know, and then trying to ignore as much as you can. The social media, I mean, it, TikTok is entertaining, you know, but it, it’s entertaining, it’s entertainment. It’s not necessarily gonna teach you anything or make you, uh, grow in any way. So, right. And you know, a lot of the news outlets either side, doesn’t matter. They’re, they’re very negative and they’re, and, and some are just trying to scare people. So the more fearful we get, the, so don’t watch those things and, you know, um, but pay attention. I mean, you still need to know if you’re in the finance world right now, we’ve got two California banks that just went down. Right. Um, you know, so you can’t bury your head in the sand either. So, I [00:16:00] mean, that’s where, you know, relying on strong, educated, And continuing to be educated advisors for you are, is important. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. I, I obviously, I 100% agree with that. And I think it’s, it’s, it is who you surround yourself with too. I find that the, the, the like-minded people, man, we’re, we’re sending ’em text messages and different things that will inspire, you know, there, there can be the jokes and the different things that go on, but I think it’s the messages that, that really inspire us. You know, like one of ’em today I sent out, I saw it on somebody’s, uh, Instagram and it this morning, and it was talking about the. How life, it seems like as we get older, life goes by quicker. Right? And it, but it also said that that eight year old or nine year old, which I have one of right, a nine year old is, it’s something like their third grade year is like 90% of their life. You know? So you think about, well, no wonder that seems like a big deal because I look back and I think, man, high school seemed like it took forever when I was there. But now my oldest is a junior in high school, right. Getting ready to be done and got a year left. I’m like, damn, that flew by. [00:17:00] So, right. How, how do we slow down and enjoy the journey as parents listening to this and be in the moment? Cause I think you said your, is it your oldest was gonna be 32? 32 today? Yeah. Yeah. So 32 today. So you as a father, how, how do you slow down, enjoy the moment, enjoy the chaos, and be present? Dr. Craig Thayer: Well, I mean, I hate to, I wouldn’t do it my way. So my way was unfortunately, experience experiencing a friend who was a patient of mine. 20 years prior to that and then dying. And he had a three year old and then four other kids. He was a football coach. He was real respected in his community, but I had, he had crashed, I had taken out a spleen. When you do that, it makes you, uh, subject to being at risk for overwhelming infections and death. And he had a strip throat, and that’s one of the bugs that’ll do it. Didn’t go in, didn’t need antibiotics, and then was late. And then, In the hospital, fluids in the [00:18:00] ICU on a ventilator, and then he has the to won’t clot. He has a big stroke and he’s brain dead. So, so I looked at my life and I said, do I really need to be on this committee or that committee? And so I just started to, to breed things that I didn’t need to be on. And then really, I would say the, the biggest committee I was on was, um, This one, uh, we were forming a multi-specialty group and that that involved internists and surgeons of all categories, and we were working on the bylaws. And so we would meet every Tuesday for five to six hours every Tuesday. Wow. And then I, we were, I mean, we were this close. To finishing and then I realized, well, my other hat that I were, and that was, that was a position that I was president, elected by my peers cuz of the business experiences that I’ve had in the past. And then, and then, um, then just before ready to do it, I realized that as trauma [00:19:00] medical director. I can’t give certain authorities to the board, like when we take vacation or who’s covering call or any of those things. And so I gave ’em a list of eight things and, and, and then I gave it to that, that attorney for the group and the attorney that we had for our other group that we’re still in. And, and they’re all like, yeah, you can’t give those up or you will no longer be verified by the American College Surgeons Committee on Trauma and not be verified, then takes away your ability to, to treat trauma at your, at your medical center. So, But that, I mean, why didn’t I get that sooner? Right? So I think every once in a while, slowing down and just taking a look at what you’re doing and seeing what’s productive and what’s not productive, and debriding those things that aren’t, aren’t worth continuing to do. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: What, what’s your morning, uh, I’m assume most successful people on here have a good morning routine, whether that’s reading and prayer, meditation, exercise, you know, and you mentioned some of those things, [00:20:00] but. What would you say is, is the kind of the no miss, uh, you know, to your core? You believe these are the things that I have to do every day? Uh, habits. Yeah. Dr. Craig Thayer: I, I mean, I think the first for me is just getting in into the Bible usually. So, and the way I do that is an interesting kind of way. So, um, There’s a first, second, third, and fourth watch at night. Uh, and their, their three or their three hour interval, three to four hour intervals. And so if I wake up after three, uh, I’ll look at the watch and I’ll remember that time. And then I’ll go the next morning and I’ll google that time as a, as a chapter in verse and it’ll show Brett Gilliland: me. So lemme interrupt you real quick. So if you woke up at, you know, four 19 that day, You would go Dr. Craig Thayer: to I, I just go Bible four 19, or I could go 41 9. Yep. Because there are chapters that [00:21:00] are, there’s some books that are 41 chapters long. So, and then I see what it said and, and I’ll tell you, 99.9, probably a hundred percent of the time, it’s been exactly something meaningful for me that day or that week. And if it hasn’t immediately hit me in the head the next week when I look back, I go, oh, okay. That’s what that meant. So, or, or I’ll just read some, uh, devotional or, or something else, but that, that then I’ve spent my time, you know, with my higher power and then, and then, um, Then I’ll focus on other things like, uh, going through emails just to make sure I haven’t missed something. Cuz I’m not very good at doing that. I’ve grown up in a time when I had a dial phone and, and you couldn’t get ahold of me. Right. You could find me. So now it’s like you can be tracked on your phone. So, um, and then I exercise probably six days a week. Um, I’m, I’m trying to, you [00:22:00] know, I, I grew up playing water polo. I swam from six and a half on. Um, which kind of got me in trouble in seventh grade cuz my parents smoked. Uh, I never did. And I was in French class and the French teacher walked up and said, and my eyes are all bloodshot. Cause they didn’t have goggles at that point. So I would swim before school and after school and, uh, I just was highly irritated at the French teacher and said, you know, you don’t, don’t accuse me of smoking. And then she sent me to the principal’s office, and so about an hour and a half, two hours of sitting in his waiting room, he pulls me in, he says, okay, what are you here for? I said, well, I was accused of smoking. That’s an insult. He goes, well, why is that? I, he goes, my body’s my temple and I swam about six miles in the morning. I seven miles in the evening. And he goes, what? Yeah, I swim about six miles in the morning before school and about seven in the evening he goes, get out here. Brett Gilliland: That’s Dr. Craig Thayer: great. Fine. I mean, we understood that it was [00:23:00] the smell of the smoke from my parents smoke and my eyes were bloodshot from chlorine. So misunderstanding I, and I was probably rude to be honest. Brett Gilliland: Right, right. So the Bible, emails, exercise, anything else? Dr. Craig Thayer: Exercise. Um, I try to eat six times a day, so breakfast and then a snack lunch, then a snack dinner, then a snack. Uh, it’s been shown pretty well. That’s spreading your especially, uh, glucose intake out over the day. Keeps your glucose at a more steady rate that you don’t get as hungry. Um, so that way it keeps my weight under control. Um, My wife’s into cold therapy. I’m not, I’ll go out when she does a post. Cause we’re both health coaches as well. And so, you know, Shamar, are you gonna get in? I go, no, I’m not that stupid. Brett Gilliland: It’s, it’s funny you say that, man. I just sent my exercise, I sent my exercise, text message, uh, and I said, we’re doing cold plunge [00:24:00] tomorrow. And so far I’ve only heard of, uh, I’ve only heard back from one of the 13 guys that they’re in, so we’ll see. It’s always brutal. I don’t love it. I Dr. Craig Thayer: don’t love it. Yeah. They say it works, you know, it FARs up cold, uh, the cold, uh, shock proteins and so, yeah. Yeah. So interesting Brett Gilliland: stuff. Well, um, so when you look back on your career now, I mean, what are, what are, what are some of the risks that you happy, that you are happy that you took? Um, that, you know, looking back, man, that was a pretty big risk, but you’re happy you did it. Dr. Craig Thayer: Uh, opening my, I was the last resident to come outta uc, Davis that just hung up a shingle and opened his own prior practice. And then, and that’s evolved. I mean, I, I left there to come to Georgia. Um, in Georgia you’re hired by the hospital In California it has to be at an arm’s length, and so you’re hired into a group and that has gradually gone from when I think I first got out of probably, [00:25:00] 70% being in private practice or a small group together to almost a hundred percent being in groups that are, uh, part of a clinic of the hospital. Brett Gilliland: So what did you find out there as a business owner? I mean, right, because a lot of people, you go to school to be a doctor, not to be a business owner, but they’re two different things. But, but you gotta be a business owner to be a doctor in that example. Dr. Craig Thayer: Right. So, I mean, I think it’s kind of like, I mean, you’ve learned too, I mean, you’ve, your best investment is in yourself. Yeah. And so that said, um, when you can branch away from a larger group and start your own thing like you’ve done, then um, you have more control. Obviously you have more stress cuz you’re now an entrepreneur, uh, versus, you know, just being an employee with a guarantee. So, Um, that carries a lot more stress. But yeah, you know, I had, I had mentors that I were, that were, weren’t partners, but were colleagues that were like, Hey, when it’s slow, just, I mean, this is, [00:26:00] you know, take advantage of that. So, Brett Gilliland: yeah, I think it’s key. And Dr. Craig Thayer: I would’ve taken that I, that I missed. But the, the one of those was, I, I think I was chief of staff at the time. So politically it would’ve been a horrible move. So there was a, an ortho on a committee about setting up a outpatient surgery center. The hospital was gonna do it. He kept saying, no, no, not a, not a good idea. And then sure enough, He and his group set up an outpatient surgery center and they invited me to be in it. And I’m like, I You just really pissed off a lot of people. Yeah. And they’re not like, what are we doing? I don’t think I can join that with this, that environment. So, but they made a lot of money doing it. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. I think betting on yourself is, um, and, and you said best investment is yourself. And I agree. I mean, I, and I think too is you gotta sometimes do it before you can quote unquote afford it. Right? I mean, I remember my first year in business, I was a [00:27:00] 22, 23 year old kid. I did a, you know, had a great first year. My second year was terrible. And I remember coming home at the end of that second year and I told my wife I was gonna hire an assistant. You know, like I needed this person, this employee. I’d been at that time, probably 24 years old, hiring my first person and probably 50% of what I made the year before was gonna go to this other person. Right? But I believed in that process, I believed in myself. I believed that doing that would allow me to go out and make more money and do the things that I’m uniquely qualified to do. And so from 24 now at 45 years old, I’ve never not had employees. And, and, but that was a huge risk at the time. That I took with my money right. And my time and went and did it. And, and so what, what advice, when you hear me talk about that, what comes to mind for you and how would you to share some, uh, learnings, if you will, with our Dr. Craig Thayer: listeners on that? Yeah. I mean, I think you need to take that leap of faith, right? Because it’s, it, you’ve, you’ve done the work. [00:28:00] You have the knowhow. Now it’s a manner of, of logistically doing it, right? So for surgery it was getting an office that I could see people and do elective things, and then automatically you take calls. So you take care of all the ki I would say the band-aids that we have to put on people, the car accidents, the altered things that they do, the unhealthiness of, uh, overeating and. Diabetes with, uh, wounds that won’t heal, or chronic disease or lung cancers from smoking or, you know, um, and they, they come into the ER and they need emergent care. So that’s always there. I’ll always have a job that’s just not gonna ever go away. It, the, the stuff like that are complications of diseases. I hope will, as we’ve learned more about health and. And, and what I’ve learned through health coaching is, you know, the more weight you lose, the less inflamed you or all the inflammatory things go [00:29:00] away. Like I’ve seen lupus and some other diseases that are autoimmune, that are gone from dropping the weight and getting the fat off your body so you’re not as inflamed and they’re just carrying the weight and bad for your joints. So, right. Most of the capabilities are all joint things. So, and then, and then now, you know, it’s, I mean, I gotta, I gotta. I gotta write the book so I have an editor and then I need to publish the book. That’s a cost. And then you gotta market it somehow if you’re gonna market it. So there’s ways to do that on the internet. And then I really, you know, do more speaking. I’ve, I’ve spoken before, I had a terrifying experience in front of 5,000 surgeons, so Brett Gilliland: you got that one outta the Dr. Craig Thayer: way in the book, but, Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I think it’s gonna take some money to make money. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I, I, I couldn’t [00:30:00] agree. I mean, I think too, again, another bet on yourself moment was, You know, my managing partner at the time in this previous firm was saying, Hey, you got 48 hours to make a decision. And so sometimes you gotta have that tough love too that says, Hey, make the decision but make the damn decision. So are you gonna do it and bet on yourself or are you not? And, and I think there’s that analysis by paralysis, or paralysis by analysis, I should say, right? That we want to, we want everything to be perfect. Before we just go do it. And, and sometimes you gotta, you gotta build the parachute as you’re coming down, right? Or you gotta build the bridge as you’re walking across. And, and so, which is tough to do, but, but you gotta do that. So tell, talk to us about some of those moments in your life where you were maybe building that parachute on a way down. Dr. Craig Thayer: Well, I’ll tell you, so the, I, I trained at uc, Davis and the medical center was in Sacramento, California. So, uh, a small town outside of there was Hangtown Placerville. And so a lot of the, the professors gave me grief about, oh, you’re thinking about going [00:31:00] up to Hangtown. There, there, and I’d gone up and I met with the CEO and they were really pro and were gonna help flam me in office and, and have like a consultant do part of the, the, the business loan stuff. And um, the five other guy, or four other guys that were there were initially, yeah, no problem. Plenty of room. But as it got closer, they got really panicked and literally they wrote me a letter saying, you’re really, really not welcome. Hmm. Oh. So that I’m like, oh, I’m just Brett Gilliland: kidding. You’re not walking to the party here. Dr. Craig Thayer: Yeah. And I think one had been there the longest for 30 something years. The other, other three, I think, came around the same time. So I was like, wow, I’m gonna step on toast. But. Uh, they got to know me. I built the parachute on the way down, which is just be kind, be nice, love people. Understand where they’re coming from and their fears, and that, you know, I’m not gonna, this, this town is growing and it’s growing at this rate. There should be enough [00:32:00] for everybody, so don’t worry about it. Yeah. North there, there’s a problem, so, Brett Gilliland: You know what, what you said there is, there’s enough for everybody. It, it makes me think about, uh, and I tell this to my kids as well, but is, is be abundant. I mean, some of my closest friends, you know, I’m, I’m picturing two people that I, that I won play golf with too. I hang out with all the time and or wives or kids weren’t the exact same business in the exact same town. Right. Literally. And, and so a lot of people be like, oh, that’s a competitor. Right. Well, Man, there is a lot of of stuff to go around, right? What, whether you’re selling widgets or wealth management, there’s, there’s a lot out there. And I think that abundance mentality is sometimes missing by people. And I think what I have found is the, the most successful people have a huge amount of abundance when it comes to their business and their personal life, right? So when you hear that, what, what comes to mind for you? Cause I see your head nodding. You’re Dr. Craig Thayer: agreeing. Yeah. No, no. I mean, there’s, there’s also the, the, the anti ones, the pastor or poverty [00:33:00] mentality, right? Right. Those people are working with the frozen feet. They just want a five, nine to five job, and they’re too afraid to do anything. And I can’t invest in mind. I’m not worthy of doing this. Right. And then, um, but, um, the, the people who do invest in themselves, the abundance, you know, my wife started a health coach and I’m like, Babe, what? Why are you doing, you know, we’re making a lot of money, right? As it is. Well, because, because we give, you know, we, we go on the mission trips, which costs us a lot of money. I have to bring all my instruments and my, all my supplies, all the suture, all those things cost a lot of money. Um, but we can give more. And then one of the things we’d love to do is build surgery centers around the world. I’m gonna go to Uganda end of September and beginning of, um, October, and they’re not gonna let me bring any instruments in. They won’t let me bring any medications in, so I’m gonna have to just kinda kind of go as an ambassador or try and pave the way. [00:34:00] They’ve got a surgery center where they do OB things, so you could do general surgery things, so we’ll see. But you know, yeah. To. Building a parachute on the way. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, exactly. It’s another one of those moments. And I think too, whether it may not be Uganda, but there’s also things in life that we have to go do that they may not want us to bring. Again, use medicine, use, you know, your doctor, your, your tools, all the things that you need, uh, in that, in that deal in Uganda, but just to life here in America, there’s gonna be telling people, telling you you can’t do it. Right. They don’t believe in you. Right. Uh, and you have to go out and believe in yourself. So like, do you have those moments where maybe they didn’t believe in you, but you, your, your belief had to be greater than everybody else’s negative Dr. Craig Thayer: thoughts? Yeah, totally. Yeah. I’ve been, you know, surgery’s one of those things that, um, and it’s a needed thing. So we have peer review. So the trauma medical director is in charge of all the trauma. Right. So I, I do peer review, but I do [00:35:00] it in a graceful way, especially if I’ve got newbies that are learning. But yeah, you know, these are life for deaths. So if someone really did something wrong and we’re gonna argue about it, sometimes we get our swords out and we’re gonna fight. So, um, and there’s been some, some, some meetings that have almost ended in blows, but, um, we walk away friends and, uh, And agree to disagree, and then have other people give an outside opinion in that, in that, usually those situations. But yeah, I think, um, yeah, those are the ones that you know, and, and if you’ve had a complication and you think you’ve done everything you could do to do it, and there’s something, some piece of information that they didn’t have, and then they’re accusing you of these things and you’re like, No, but I was there and I did these things, and so, but there’s that moment of like, and you need that as a surgeon. The first, if someone has a complication, the first person you need to look at is yourself. And what could I have done that, that be the problem? If I’ve sewn something [00:36:00] together that’s a pipe and it’s leaking, what did I do wrong? What didn’t I see what you, if you don’t examine yourself that way, then you don’t approve, you don’t grow, and, and it’s risky for you to continue to practice. So, and then, you know, just this, this, this, what I’m doing now. You know, I’ll wake up going, man, is this really, you know, do I need to do this? I think so, just cuz humanity needs, you know, hope and to belong and to, for me to serve and not be served. So, um, But yeah, I’m like, I look at myself like, who am I to think I’m this guy that, I mean, I’m already gifted with this pedestal that I’m putting on because I’m on dock. Right? So I think Ed said, It’s some survey that the most trusted people who speak are docs. Cause they, you know, they’re just trusted by being a doc. And I’m like, right, but I’m gonna use it. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Those two little letters in front of your name, the DR certainly carries some weight, don’t they? Yeah. [00:37:00] Uh, it’s amazing and it’s because you’ve, you’ve put into the, the time right. And the energy and. And the money and, and you’ve done it and, and you’ve worked your butt off for it. So when, when you see this sticker here, this f greater than P sign, um, that is, uh, achieving a future greater than your past. So that is our firm’s mission. That is my personal mission. Uh, it is something that I get up for every single day. And I think the longer you’re in business and, and you’ve had some sort of success, Uh, there becomes a, an outward, uh, maybe thought maybe inward when we’re in our twenties and we’re thinking about how do you build your family and all those things. But I think once you get there, uh, there’s still a long way to go. But my point is to this, when you hear achieving a future greater in your past, what comes to mind for you? Dr. Craig Thayer: Uh, the broad category of personal growth. I think, you know, when we’re fixing a job that’s the same routine every day. We’re not really growing either mind, body, spirit or, or anything, you know? Um, and I’ll tell you, [00:38:00] it’s funny cuz the health coaching thing that my wife and I got into, which directs us to grant Cardone’s 10 x thing. Um, all personal growth to listen to Magic Johnson talk about, um, you know, turning, um, Starbucks and San Francisco into Starbucks. That will work because they’re playing the wrong music and they’ve got the wrong food for their culture in that area. Hmm. Or John Travolta talking about wanting to get a, his 7 0 7 refurbished and uh, goes to, um, Qantas cause he loves the logo and says, Hey, I’d love to buy one of your planes. And the CEO leans over and says, John, I don’t think you got this right. We want to do something for you. So come back in a month and we’ll figure it out. So hearing these people’s stories, whether it’s s growth or spiritual growth, you know, getting more into the Bible, doing Bible studies, leading, you know, having groups come to your house [00:39:00] to speak or even at a bigger platform. Um, Uh, or, you know, physically, you know, coaching them through their health. Uh, both. Yeah. Move better movement, hydration, sleep, all the factors that we know are important for longevity. Yeah. So, Brett Gilliland: yeah. So talk about that sleep. I mean, how. Critically important. Is it because obviously I know that I’ve talked about it a ton on this podcast, but you know, even last night, you know, you get sucked into a, my oldest got me to watching Breaking Bad, and you know, you get sucked into one more episode, right? And then the next thing you know, your eyes are bleeding and you should be sleeping. But how do we train ourselves into thinking about that and thinking about it in the moment? And maybe I shouldn’t expect perfection and no, it’s just not gonna happen. But, but how critically important is this sleep to us? And what are we missing when we’re not getting the right, the right number? Dr. Craig Thayer: So yeah, think REM sleep and deep sleep are the important ones, right? So I have a Fitbit that I wear. It gives me one my REM on my each night, and. [00:40:00] Um, they’re affected by different things, you know, um, alcohol, not, not one or two drinks have a significant, but if you’re drinking more than that, that’s gonna have an effect. Your heart rate variability, which is a new parameter, uh, goes down. So the more stressed and sympathetic nervous system’s firing, the less vari variability you have in your heart. It’s just kind of fixed to the higher heart rate, and that’s not good for you. Um, But yeah, sleep. But I, and I also do believe just because of practicing medicine, people who work an evening job, like ER docs have a shorter lifespan. And then, yeah, add, add more variability to that, like what I’ve been doing to myself. I mean, I’m, you know, I’m, I’m in desk door, so, but, but I do believe that it is a sl, there’s like a sleep bank, so. If you, you need eight hours and you get seven, then you can make it up the next night or somewhere within the next week, and that, that will restore you [00:41:00] back to the health that you should. So, yeah. Yeah. And your, it’s your brain, your brain’s going through alpha and different waves. That, that are the other longevity thing is, um, which is why intermittent fasting is supposed to be, uh, a longevity thing. Not so much for weight loss, but um, You know, it gives your, you’re not eating and your body kind of consuming and metabolizing food and then producing waste. If you give it a break long enough, then your brain cells and all the other cells kind of clean up all the excess junk inside the cell for a longer period of time that’s supposed to be healthier for you. So some of that’s true. So, awesome. Interesting. I’m gonna, Brett Gilliland: I’m gonna play a game here. I I went up to your, I’m on your Instagram, so I’m gonna have you pick a number between one and 10 on this game, and then we’re going to, uh, pick another number after that. So between one and 10, Dr. Craig Thayer: number seven. [00:42:00] Brett Gilliland: All right. Three. Number seven. Now a number between one and three. 1, 2, 3. Three. All right. Number three. It’s a, it looks like it’s a video here from you, and, uh, it says, let’s get healthy together. And, uh, so I, you know, can’t obviously show the whole video right here, but you’ve got your video. It’s you on your Instagram here. Let’s get healthy together. So what are we, what are we talking about there? What, what are we saying Let’s get healthy together? What’s that about? So it, Dr. Craig Thayer: it’s two things. One is, uh, I think we all need coaches for different parts of our life and health is probably one of those. Definitely works. I mean, like I said, I’ve seen people drop hundreds of pounds and they’re, they’re no longer diabetic. They’re, I dunno if you’ve ever watched the show, biggest Loser, but that’s kinda the first time medicines come out. Yeah. And look, we can lose this kind of weight. And it’s not through gastric bypass or any of those things. And, but the reality is, is that that’s a symptom of a symptom. So you’re [00:43:00] eating too much, so you’re obese, but why are you eating too much? That’s a whole, that’s the problem that you, a coach gets to in the psyche of a player, right? So how do you motivate? How do you inspire? And best, and I think you said this in, in your podcast passion, right? So the inspiration and motivation disappear within about a week. They say behaviorally, but passion is the one that keeps you going. Yeah. My passion was to be a surgeon, right? So, so I think one, it’s, it’s having a coach and two, more importantly, if you’re married or you have a partner. Um, my wife would put me through so many different diets, whole 30 macro counting, uh, you know, and, uh, finally she, she agreed to do this other program, which is what we used to help people get healthy. Um, And, uh, I dropped 40 pounds. I gained 40 pounds When we, when I went to one and three call, your life pretty much ends. Uh, [00:44:00] you know, you’re on. And then you were up all night and you’re operating the next day, and then you’re, uh, off that day, but then you’re on the next day. It’s like you just don’t, you’ve canceled vacations. And I gained 40 pounds and I, it stayed that way until, wow. I said like the chapter on Jason in time that, uh, I realized I don’t need to be on these committees. I don’t need to. I need to. Take better care of myself. And then, and then when I did it with my wife’s stuff, you’re eating the same things. You’re, you, you know, she reminds you of this. I remind her of this and, and, uh, we do it together. So if you can partner up with someone, that’s always, yeah, always better. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. The accountability’s huge. That’s what I was saying earlier, these 13 guys on a text message that, you know, tomorrow morning when my alarm goes off at, you know, 5 38 or whatever it’ll be. You know, maybe a little chilly, I’m gonna be like, ah, it’d be a lot better to stay in bed, you know, if I was doing it by myself. But knowing there’s gonna be people and literally in my own backyard working out without me is, uh, that’ll be kind of, you know, awkward, kind of weird if I don’t show up. Right?[00:45:00] Right. But you gotta create that, right. I had to create that, that, that, that atmosphere, that community, uh, to make myself uncomfortable because I knew I wouldn’t do it without them. Right. Dr. Craig Thayer: Me either. I mean, I always, if it’s an individual thing, like swimming’s very individual, there’s not really team water polo is totally team. If I’m not there, I can’t, the team can’t work up on certain drills. Yep. There’s, there’s a, a PowerPoint in, in, uh, A water polo where someone’s ejected for 20 seconds. So it’s kinda like hockey or you’re a man up and you gotta work on these techniques to get the goal. And uh, if I’m not there, they don’t do that. So I hurt the team. So, so that’s key. But otherwise, individually it’s just setting goals. Like, okay, we used to cycle a lot, so let’s do this, this cycling in, um, in, uh, Fresno on the 30th of July. And then you set these dates and you gotta get there. Or I do this, we call the death March. It’s a backpack trip with a bunch of guys, and we’re on trail the first day, and then I’m off going across the Sierras. So [00:46:00] it’s a blast, but it’s, yeah, it’s, you know, it’s just, it’s, guys need a fight according to a good book. It’s, um, oh man, it’s by Eldridge blocking on the name. But anyway, uh, we need a fight. We need adventure, we need beauty in our lives, so it keeps us going as men. Brett Gilliland: That’s right. What do you think about rocking, I heard you talking about the backpacking. Are you a, are you a fan of rocking? And for those that don’t know what that is, it’s, you know, basically a backpack with weights on it and you’re walking and you know, maybe it’s 10 pounds or 30 pounds, whatever as you’re carrying. What are your thoughts on that? Dr. Craig Thayer: Yeah, my oldest son just did that. He’s up in Seattle working at Boeing. So, and his girlfriend teamed up together and they rocked. Yeah, they had to cross some streams with a, I think his was a 30 pound rock and. Yeah, no, it’s good fitness. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: Okay. So you’re a big fan of that or not, maybe not a big fan, but you’re a believer in it. It’s good for you. That’s more Dr. Craig Thayer: comfortable than a rock by far. So you got to strap and it’s internally supportive. So you gotta a belt that’s so wrists on [00:47:00] your hips and, but when you start to climb, like really ladder up stuff and kind of mountaineer you strap down cause it’ll swinging around and stuff. And. Then it’s all on your shoulders. So, but it’s, yeah, I think they’re both good. Good. You really have to get in shape to go on the trip, so that’s what motivates me, obviously. Sure. I don’t suffer. Right? Brett Gilliland: Yeah. First world problems here. I’m thinking about an August golf trip where I gotta walk 36 holes every single day for five straight days. I’m like, God, I’m gonna have to get way more in shape for Dr. Craig Thayer: this. Well, it’s not just that. It’s like for me it’s, I gotta get my feet in in, yeah. Worn in boots. That’s right. You would be your feet. My golf shoes. Yeah. Golf. Golf gear. Yeah. So, I mean, and it makes it different, you know, if you start to get a hotspot, don’t, don’t take care of it. Or, you know, you get a b blister. Yeah. And then you’re, you’re hurting the whole, whole time. It’s not really fun. So Yeah. Getting on a treadmill with, uh, without the spikes. That’s right. Brett Gilliland: Well, where should our listeners, uh, find more of you? [00:48:00] Uh, Craig Thayer here. Looks like you got a website, Craig thayer.net. And maybe some social media. Is that right? Dr. Craig Thayer: Yeah. So, and on that site you can click on my book, it’ll take you to Amazon. Um, just put my name in and, and saved in Amazon search. You should find that. Awesome. Um, I’m also, I also have an email. It’s, uh, Craig at the number four thas.com. So Craig four thayers.com. Um, I’m on, uh, apparently now LinkedIn is a big one, so I’m, uh, at INS slash Craig Thayer and I, I’ve been on Facebook. There was tank there to go incognito, but now that. My wife wanted me more high profile. It was Craig Tank there and all the people that was a nickname from Water Polo got really irritated about that. So now it’s Craig Tank there and Facebook, and then add tank there for Instagram. [00:49:00] And then I just Twitter, so I’m a new tweet. Uh, and it’s at Craig Tank there. So those are all my contacts. We’ll Brett Gilliland: put all those in the show notes here below. People can reach out, uh, to Craig, who was a, uh, surgeon and a bestselling author, radio show, co-host, and a motivational speaker. Amazing stuff. Thanks for sharing your wisdom today, Craig. Really appreciate your time. Dr. Craig Thayer: Hey, thank you Brett. Thank you. It was an honor being on your show.

Join us as we dive in with Karen Phelps Moyer about authenticity, self-care, and gratitude. Karen is an incredible philanthropist, mother of eight, and mental health advocate. She specifically works with student-athletes with her companies Golden Minds and Eluna Network, and strives to give back to her community. She has recently started a new business venture called Good Morning Gorgeous, encouraging many to reimagine love. Tune in as Karen and Brett discuss giving back, its impact on individuals and communities, and how surrounding yourself with like-minded people can help you become your authentic self. https://youtu.be/w_5F7dEHTMo Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’ve got Karen Phelps Moyer with me. Karen, how you doing? Karen Phelps Moyer: I’m great, Brett. Thanks for having me on. Brett Gilliland: It’s, uh, good to be with you and, uh, you know, by the looks, people can probably see up there. You got the Notre Dame football, you got the Notre Dame helmet and you’re setting where. Karen Phelps Moyer: I’m in my home in South Bend. It does look like I’m a big fan, but I, I have a house here that I, I visit, um, My parents, and then I rent this house out, uh, during the season. Brett Gilliland: Yes. Karen Phelps Moyer: So I just happen to be right now, uh, working on a few things in, in my new business, so. Brett Gilliland: Yes, I love it. Which we will talk about soon. You are the, uh, founder and CEO of Golden Minds and Good Morning Gorgeous. And the founder of Eluna Network, the foundation that you’re involved in, do amazing work and so excited to spend time talking about all those, but. If you can, um, Karen, let’s just kinda start with what I do on every podcast of what’s made you, the woman you are today. I know that’s a pretty bold and, or not bold, but kind of an open question, right? That could go a million different directions. But really what’s made you, the woman you are today to, to wake up and be involved in some amazing companies in the work and the impact that you’re making in the world? Karen Phelps Moyer: Well, I grew up here in South Bend. I, the family came here when I was five years old, so I was influenced by an incredible university. Uh, For the character and personality that we develop in, in, in those youthful years. So I could walk to campus and be around some really great people. Learned to give back at a very young age. Um, was very determined in my career. I was gonna do television and, uh, married a professional baseball player at a very young age. And then supported his journey for about the next 30 years. Along the way, did some philanthropy and created our own foundation. And so therein lies, you know, my work and what I do, uh, to this day. Brett Gilliland: Awesome. And, uh, your dad is, uh, is a legendary basketball coach there at the University of Notre Dame. Uh, Digger Phelps. He’s a hell of a guy. And how’s Digger doing? Karen Phelps Moyer: He’s well, thank you. Uh, he is active in his own way. He’s definitely slowed down in the sense of what’s on his agenda and in his calendar. He is been doing some world traveling, uh, since Covids been over and he, um, is healthy and that’s always… Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s good. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So what did you learn in that role? Obviously in, in the environment you grew up in, you, you grew up around sports, you grew up around competition, uh, grit, uh, you know, all the stuff you gotta do, right? I mean, to coach at that level and the success he had, obviously I would think that would sprinkle down to kids. And, and so what did you learn watching that from the front row? Karen Phelps Moyer: Well, there was always a giving back component, and so whatever your blessings are to be able to pay that forward, to support others in the community with different organizations. Both of my parents were always demonstrating that, and obviously the university does a really good job of that as well. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Karen Phelps Moyer: so, um, and, and for, for us it was, um, Not only paying it forward, but just knowing how you could make it, make things better for others. And so whatever that looked like is what we were trying to do. And so that carried on with me through life and, and to what I’m doing now. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, yeah. So let’s talk about that, what you’re doing now. Golden Minds and Good Morning Gorgeous. Uh, the two companies, um, that you are, uh, a part of and founded and run and, uh, making a, a, a huge impact. But let’s start with Golden Minds that’s on the t-shirt there, so we’ll, we’ll talk with that. Uh, first cause I love what you’re doing with that. That’s how we were introduced and, uh, just excited to spend some time talking about it. Let’s, let’s, let’s do that. Karen Phelps Moyer: Well, thank you. So really the story goes, I got very involved in grief and creating a grief camp for kids in the year 2000. Uh, kids ages six to 17 get to attend our camp. We partner with hospice type organizations. These are kids who’ve lost a loved one and then they’re surrounded by others, um, grieving and, uh, don’t feel so isolated and lonely. It’s a beautiful camp called Camp Erin then founded another camp called Camp Mariposa, that’s a camp for kids who live with family addiction. These kids are ages nine to 12, who actually, um, were breaking the cycle of addiction. It’s been around long enough to be proud to. That, uh, the Department of Justice sees it as a, uh, a camp for, um, prevention and so grief in the addiction and the crossover for me was suicide prevention. And I’ve worked in, in that area for, um, a long time on a national level. Um, and so being a mom of many and having college athletes, I pay attention to this world. And about this time last year, we had too many deaths by suicide that were national stories. And I saw this idea of taking what we have now in name, image, and likeness, and having that be access to student athletes and launching a platform at the same time, uh, called Golden Minds. And this is the mental health support for our student athletes. So I am directly working with student athletes from Notre Dame St. Mary’s. Which is the girls’ school across the street. And then the other school here in South Bend is, um, Holy Cross College. And so, you know, we’re looking at about a thousand athletes, um, that have access to Golden Minds and to Golden TouchNIL But, um, really in development. Um, thought I would build a resource center and that is not where this generation is. They’re not clicking on links. They need to communicate through their phone and, um, feel safe. And so just building that, um, I’m in town right now to host what I started, um, a few months ago, and that’s called We Hear You and I just wanna hear them. I wanna meet them where they are. I bring in experts, they go home with some tools about, um, how to deal with what’s going on in, in their world. You know, it’s a, it is a crazy world as we know. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Karen Phelps Moyer: And to maintain the, the academics and the athletics and the social life, um, along with social media and other things, um, it’s a lot for these kids ages 18 to 24. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Karen Phelps Moyer: So Golden Minds is that, um, outside support that, uh, Is gonna do some big things. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And it is, you are seeing it more and more often and it’s, you know, I wonder, is it, are we seeing it more often? Cuz there’s news on all the time, but I don’t, I don’t think that’s the case. I truly think it is happening more and more and, and whether it’s our, our phone, it’s the world we live in today. I mean, what are your. What advice would you have for those listeners right now that, you know, we have kids and, and maybe we don’t have college athletes yet. My kids are still in high school, junior high and in grade school. And, and you’re the mother of eight children. Uh, which is, I I have four kids and I think that’s crazy. I can’t imagine having eight. Uh, so I digress. But anyway. What, what are you seeing, what advice would you have for those that, that are out there trying to make an impact in the world with kids and our mental health? What advice would you have for us? Karen Phelps Moyer: You have to start the conversation. There can’t be stigma around it. And so it has to be dinner conversation. You have to do check-ins with your kids. You can also surround your kids with other safe people that they can talk to. They’re not always comfortable coming home and talking about it. So who are the coaches? Who are the other adults in the room? Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Karen Phelps Moyer: That they can do. Um, empower them if they think that one of their friends isn’t well, that they should. Should tell somebody, um, it, it’s a crisis. Absolutely. And Covid didn’t help, but we can do better. And so starting the conversation, breaking the stigma is the first thing for sure. And then surrounding them with safe people to, to go to, to talk about it. Um, and then doing the check-ins. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And that’s whether it’s, you know, we’re talking about, you know, suicide, terrible. Um, But, but also then on the flip side of that, if we look at it even from the business side, right? I mean that, that’s important. Whether it’s mental health, if it’s business, I mean, we gotta have check-ins, we gotta check in with our employees, we gotta check in with our teammates, check in at home, right? I mean, all the things that you’re saying are, are such a big deal and all facets of life. But I think this, this mental side is important and I think it’s okay. In today’s world, too, what I’m seeing is it’s okay more for men especially to have those conversations and be okay and be transparent and be vulnerable. You know, I’ve been very transparent on this podcast, and then when I talk publicly at speeches and different things is I dealt with anxiety a lot, right? And, uh, you can either make that a, a weak part of your system or you can make that a strength, right? And I’ve found, the more I’ve talked about it, the more I’ve been open about it. The more somebody comes up to you and they’re like, man, I didn’t know that. I, I’m struggling with that too. Right? And so I think when, when you hear me say that being open, being transparent, being vulnerable, what are your thoughts there? Karen Phelps Moyer: I applaud you. Way to go because our generation’s not doing that. And that’s where it starts, is to just recognize that it exists within you and you, it’s okay to have days where you’re not okay. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Karen Phelps Moyer: And so then it does come down to the choice of, you know, if, if you stay in it or if you can help yourself get out of it. Lots of professionals out there that are, you know, can support you and help you through it. Sometimes you just need the tools on how to get through it. Sometimes you just need to be heard, and while life is super complicated, It is important to know that there are people out there that will listen to you and give you advice. Um, there’s a lot of people that give you bad advice too. Um, but as we grow and develop, we, we learn to be more mindful in life. We, we learn to be more methodical in our thinking, in our reactions. Um, we definitely have to do that in parenting and certainly, Um, in relationships and, uh, at work and things like that. So it’s a, it’s a nonstop work and your own self-development, but if you have self-awareness, that’s a huge first step. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Let’s, let’s talk about, cuz these, these two going, uh, hand in hand and you do an amazing job on the, on this stuff with Golden Minds, but you also have part of the company that talks about NIL and you mentioned that, right? The name, image, and likeness. I have a philosophy on this and I’m, I’m curious, somebody that’s in the business, you’ve been in the sports world, you’re basically your whole life, not basically it has been your whole life, right? What are, what are your thoughts on N I L and the transfer portal and, and if we can’t go down this route because of your roles and what you do, you tell me to shut up and go, I’ll go the next question, but, but I have a huge passion about this and let tell you why, if that’s okay. I struggle with, I think let’s just take the March madness to college basketball we just got done with, right? We saw teams you never would’ve bet any money on that. They’d be in the Final Four, right? So I think it’s leveling the playing field there. I love that part of it. Here’s what I don’t like. I don’t like the fact that if, when I played a little bit of golf in college, Let’s just use that as an example, that if my coach comes and holds me accountable, and I don’t wanna be held accountable in today’s world, right? I’m a kid, I’m this, I don’t wanna listen to it. I don’t wanna be challenged, I don’t wanna be held accountable. I, I don’t wanna be pushed to my limit. It’s just a lot more comfortable for me to just say, you know what? I’m out right. I’m leaving Company X or, uh, school X, and I’m going over here. I’m curious your thoughts on that. What’s it doing to our kids right now? Because it scares me for an accountability and toughness factor that we’re not giving them. Karen Phelps Moyer: Well, I think you bring up a really good point. I don’t, um, think that everyone’s really looking at that piece of it. I think what they’re looking at is the playing time or the accessibility to an N I L deal. And, you know, let’s make that even for them, but the accountability that’s gonna have to come from home, that’s gonna have to come from within themselves because it absolutely will catch up to them. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Karen Phelps Moyer: If you’re in an environment where you get to run all the time and not have to face adversity, um, you know, and you just think it’s greener and it’s better, that is not gonna be a pattern that’s gonna work for you in life. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Karen Phelps Moyer: And so, look, I grew up where I couldn’t give any of my dads players a bagel or a car ride, right? And so when I looked at exploring, getting involved in the N I L I was very standoffish about it. It’s not going away. We can do this, right? There are right ways to do it. Lots of influencers out there making money, just putting their name on something looking good, whatever it is. And so if this is an opportunity for a student athlete to monetize at any level. I think that they should, I think that they’ve been held back in doing that. Were very strict rules around that. A school like Notre Dame really did live by that. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Karen Phelps Moyer: Um, so it was already an unfair playing field, quite honestly, because not every school lived that way. Brett Gilliland: Right. Karen Phelps Moyer: So it’s not a pay-to-play situation, but it’s definitely a chance to monetize yourself if you’re passionate. So my N I L players, we’re gonna, we are involved in a movement around mental health. So I’m looking for companies that this is important to them. They come to me, they have access to these amazing athletes. Together we’ll be pushing mental health. Starting the conversation, breaking the stigma. Know, coming up with tools, uh, they can become a captain and a leader in this part of their team and role models around, uh, the, the country, quite honestly. So you bring up a really good point about that. But I think that that also comes from home, um, right. And where the accountability is. You know, it’s been really hard raising kids. Um, for, you know, this generation, uh, what they, what they feel is, is they deserve and then they’ve had to, you know, live through Covid. So we aren’t gonna know, and I think you’re right, you’re gonna be onto something. Um, certainly if you’re a coach, the transfer portal’s very difficult. So there’s, it is what it is. There can be some stricter boundaries around it, I suppose, but, It’s going to exist and we’re gonna have to figure out how to make it. Brett Gilliland: Mm-hmm. It’s funny… Karen Phelps Moyer: I love San Diego State being in the final game, by the way. Brett Gilliland: You love that. Karen Phelps Moyer: That was like a dream come true for our town. Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. That that was a big deal and that was a lot of fun to watch. And so I do like it for that right. I think that’s, it becomes, to your point, it’s a more of a. Uh, a fair playing field, right? Because, uh, and, and you’re not saying this I am, but the old school days where you hear the stories of, you know, the duffle bag happens to be on the tarmac and it’s full of cash, right? And that kid goes to that college last minute and, and all that. But now you have, you know, whether it’s the basketball players, you hear about making a million dollars a year or these, uh, I don’t even know their names, but there’s twin, uh, girls from Miami. They’re making a million or $2 million a year, right? It’s like, How long can that go? And, and so my other philosophy on this is, what I do like about it is it’s hard. And I’m in the wealth management business. That’s my day-to-day job, right? And so I understand money and the importance of that. And giving money to somebody young is tough, but at least when they get drafted, sometimes they may have the wrong people around them, right? So now you have this kid who’s 18, 20, 22 years old, whatever, and they get drafted. They’re around millions of dollars. And no circle. I at least like the fact that I would trust if a kid’s making even a hundred thousand dollars at Notre Dame, there’s a slew of people around him or her that’s gonna take care of them. Right? That’s my hope. I hope that these universities are doing that, that they are creating people around him to be good stewards of what’s going on. Karen Phelps Moyer: N not necessarily per se. So my N I L’s golden touch. My N I L for these student athletes is the A to Z. It supports them from the, the contract through the obligation when they get the money, the finances, the taxes. I’m also bringing in things, um, organizations that are gonna support the kids and mentor them and educate them on what to do with their investments. Hmm. Uh, So it’s the whole package of the, the student athlete, the human being today and into the future. Not necessarily are all of the Nils doing this. And certainly Notre Dame is, is not, we are last to the table on the Nils. We’re very small group. I’m separate than the university. I’m just here for the, the students. Um, as a third party. Um, You know, with the university’s blessing because… Brett Gilliland: Sure. Karen Phelps Moyer: My whole package is around mental health. And so, um, I just want shout outs. I want stories. This is how we’re going to break the stigma, is that you’re hearing stories of others feeling just like you. And if you need help, then we’ll find you help. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, uh, I’m bouncing around here on some things and, but let’s talk about, so you, I read on your website, um, for the Good Morning, Gorgeous. You know, you were. Uh, using your words. You were in your fifties, uh, when you did this. You, you bet on yourself. You’re starting a new company. Uh, I mean, talk to our listeners out there right now that have that dream, right? They wanna follow, they wanna be the best version of themselves. They wanna achieve a future greater in your past, which is our motto. Um, talk to them. What advice do you have for them? Why did you bet on yourself? And are you happy you took, you’ve taken the risks that you’ve taken? Karen Phelps Moyer: Well, I mean, quite honestly, I didn’t get to live my dream and that was to, uh, work in sports television, uh, in the eighties and nineties and followed uh, my husband’s dream and path. And he played a very long time and that just became our world. And so I was always kind of in a corner trying to figure out what I was gonna do. And at 40 I started my own spin studio cuz I loved doing it and it wasn’t in my neighborhood. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, um, and oth other projects like that. So after the divorce, I did a lot of work on myself and I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. I have a degree from Notre Dame. Again, I didn’t get to do my career and that is a regret, um, for me, and I’m just being authentic and vulnerable, sharing that. So… Brett Gilliland: How long did you know that, sorry to interrupt, but how long did you know that? How long did that regret take you or not regret? How long did it take for you to realize you were having regret? Karen Phelps Moyer: I’ve been, I, I certainly have been open about it probably more in the divorce because, you know, that was his dream. I was supporting his dream. Um, and then you get to reflect when you don’t end up staying together, you’re just like, okay. You know, lots of amazing, great things we did as a couple and as a family that I would never change. Um, but for me, I went to, I worked in television in high school. I went to Notre Dame, I interned summers, like this was my dream, this was my goal, this is what I was gonna do. I started the path of doing the Olympics. I did the 88 Olympics in Calgary with abc. Was supposed to go to Seoul and then got married instead. And we were traded after we were married. I think if we’d stayed in Chicago, it would be a different story, but we were traded and there began this journey of many, many moves and nine teams and decades in Major League baseball. So for me, um, Certainly in a divorce, I, I verbalize it. I may have felt it, but now I verbalize it and I have daughters, so I share this with them and they get it and they see it and they understand. And so now I share it with other women. And so for me, when I took my grief work to a place organically helping widows reimagine love, because I had a friend who was a widow and she had set up her match and took it down. I’m like, no, we can do this. And it went well and built self-esteem and self-confidence, and she was dating again. Um, and I thought, well, this is cool. I could do this. So that’s where the Good Morning Gorgeous comes from, the Elite TLC dating. And then along the way, other populations came in. I work with men and women and divorced people, people who haven’t dated in a long time, people who’ve been sick and are getting out there dating again. So reimagining love. And then there’s this whole thing about your, your dreams and, and where, where can you take your dreams no matter where you are in life. I, so I life coach people, some people have fallen into money and wanna figure out what to do with it. Some people in their careers, I mentor all ages. Um, but for me, Good Morning Gorgeous became me being me. I, my life experience, giving that back and turning it into a business of coaching, and I’m enhancing that. I’m getting certified in the Jay Shetty School of Coaching now and really want to blow up what I’m doing because I love what I’m doing and so I’m excited about that. So I have that, and I have this mental health piece, and I have two freshmen in college athletes. And so I live this. With them, um, the mental health in sports, and my youngest has been in residential treatment. She’s adopted special needs for the last two plus years, and so I also live that as well. So I’m walking the talk, but I’m also building communities and finding holes where we don’t have things and how can I, how can I find the experts to build what I can at Golden Minds to support student athletes? Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Karen Phelps Moyer: Not only here, but I hope to take it everywhere. Brett Gilliland: And where did you find your passion? Do you think that just came to you like just one day, or is that years of like, you know, thinking about it, journaling, dreaming, whatever it is, like how did that come to you? Karen Phelps Moyer: I wish… Brett Gilliland: I like why this, like, my point to that is, I guess why this? Right? Karen Phelps Moyer: Yeah. No, I, I think, um, when I, when I formed Good Morning Gorgeous, I was definitely going back to mentors in my life and saying, okay, what, what is my life? What could it look like? I even thought about going back into television, going back to the Olympics. It’s gonna be in LA in 28. Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Karen Phelps Moyer: And then things were just happening organically and naturally and in covid. I was able to keep coaching people, you know, I could take on as many people with a lot of downtime, um, with all of us being at home. So, uh, that just evolved that way. I got certified, um, as a thought coach, just kept enhancing myself and the business, and I get to apply that to my clients. So now I can really reflect and say, okay, I like the flexibility. I like being able to travel and see my kids and live life a little bit. I have to be there for my youngest. I mm-hmm. You know, drive her journey, uh, navigate that, which is not easy, uh, day to day. And this allows me to, to still connect people, be connected to people, uh, build community. And I’m sure that I learned all that right here at Notre Dame. Yeah, I saw it. Mm-hmm. Brett Gilliland: In your value system, right. I mean I think that we talk about that at work a lot. We gotta be values connected, we gotta be vision connected. I think that’s critically important. So when you hear those words values, what comes to mind for you? Karen Phelps Moyer: Well, I think you can, what you need to learn and a value is that perfectly imperfect is okay. So if you are stuck in perfection, if you’re stuck in a facade, if you’re stuck in a place where you feel like you need to prove to everybody that you can do things, handle things, not do things small, always do things big, you know you’re gonna burn out. You’re gonna burn yourself out, you’re gonna burn the people out around you. And so then the next thing is authenticity. And so how do you get to be authentic with yourself and then it’s all about self-care and self-love and to be able to really love yourself. I know that sounds kind of weird, but I don’t know how many people can say they love themselves, right? But you need to love yourself in order to be loved authentically by others. And self-care is huge. You know, especially moms. We are doing everything for everybody else. All the time. And if we don’t take care of ourselves, then the rest isn’t gonna work. This being around like-minded people, it’s important to have a partner that supports you in all of that too, that lifts you up. Even if you’re full of self-esteem and self-confidence. Know that you deserve and should be getting from your partner that, that you’re uplifted, that you’re appreciated, um, because that too can get really old and you can get burned out. So, um, you know, there’s a lot of things that we can work on just day-to-day mindfulness, and whether you’re doing meditation or how you decide to wake up and set your intentions for the day. How you are at night when you go to bed. Definitely living with gratitude. Um, and I, I always, I hope that I inspire people to give back that, that fills my heart so much. I, my next favorite thing other than being with my kids is to be at my camp and watch these kids, um, you know, grow and heal and find hope and healing. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Karen Phelps Moyer: And themselves and be able to take that home. So giving back at whatever level that is, it can be big or small. Brett Gilliland: So let’s peel that onion layer back a little bit on the self-care side. So if, if I followed you around for a week or a month, you know, pick the timeframe. What am I seeing? Um, what am I seeing Karen do day in and day out to take care of herself? Karen Phelps Moyer: Um, sleep is definitely something that I’m requiring more with age, uh, and so recognizing that you need more sleep, uh, and rest and recovery, uh, working out for me has always been very important. Uh, That’s the, the mental health for me to, quite honestly, my family knew it was good if I got a workout in that day and you just feel better and, you know, yeah, look better. All that comes in one package. Um… Brett Gilliland: Can I stop you there for a second? How, how do you, how are you doing that? So how, what are the age ranges of the kids? Karen Phelps Moyer: So unfortunately because of Covid, I became an empty nester, um, four years sooner than we we were supposed to. Brett Gilliland: Okay. Karen Phelps Moyer: And the divorce, Jamie and I have been sharing, so I’ve been in transition, um, for a while now, in the sense of what was normal, and by the way, what’s normal? I was married to Major League baseball and moved 88 times and had eight kids, and the bigs were in three schools. And you know, it was just this grind and I was always finding a workout for sure. Brett Gilliland: Well, that’s where I was going with that. You’re, you’re hitting the nail in the head here is, is so many people I don’t have time. Right. I don’t have time to read 10 pages a day or I don’t have time for a five minute meditation or a workout or whatever. Right. And I can be guilty of that sometimes and so, sure. What did, what did you do as a mother of eight moving all over the country, husband’s out of town playing sports, um, like what were you doing to make sure that stuff gets done? Because it’s easier now, I would assume, right? With being an empty nester. So, but what were you doing when the, when the grind was going on? How were you doing it? Karen Phelps Moyer: Um, it was just always a part of the schedule. So if I was, you know, I owned the spin studio, so that was seven years of my life teaching that 5:00 AM class and probably two more during the day. Um, but just always, if we were on the road, I was in the hotel, it was just a priority to me. And I think that’s what it, what it comes down to. And a lot of people, we do get caught up in not making ourselves a priority and with age. I’m gonna do Pilates until I’m a hundred. You know, you have to change your workouts where, you know, I used to box and yeah, do really hardcore cardio. You know, if I can get one Pilate session in a day, I’m thrilled. Um, So, You just recognize, um, that actually that’s super important anyway, uh, for your health, uh, eating rights, um, you know, watching alcohol consumption, um, which definitely got harder in Covid. And then all of a sudden now we’re like, okay, we, we can’t do that every day anymore, so… Brett Gilliland: it’s three o’clock. What are we gonna do now? I guess we drank. Karen Phelps Moyer: Exactly. Um, but you know, I think it just, it has to be innate. You can surround yourself with others too. So if your partner’s motivating and inspiring that way you can do it together. Um, it, I think it’s a great example for the kids. Um, it’s just who, who I’ve always been. And so that’s just who I’ll always be. I have good role model around me. Brett Gilliland: It’s hard for you to understand somebody that doesn’t do it, isn’t it? Karen Phelps Moyer: No, I get that. I think, um, a lot of people can get away with that. I think that that catches up to you at some point. Um, you know, I, we’re an athletic family. I love playing tennis and golf as well, but they’re… you know, extracurricular sports in my life. Um, yeah, just, just staying active I think is just important. Uh, I live in California where we lead an active life. I don’t get to hibernate, um, in these winter states. Um, so, uh, and you know, it keeps you young. I’m around student athletes all the time. They keep me young. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Karen Phelps Moyer: So… Brett Gilliland: Love it. Um, when you hear the word fear, um, I, I used to ask this question, I’m getting away from it for the last couple months, but the, the fears you’ve put in your mind over the years, how many of those fears have actually blown up to the magnitude you put ’em in your mind to be? Karen Phelps Moyer: I don’t think that I’ve lived a life fear-based at all, and I don’t have thoughts that are fear-based. I don’t have actions that are fear-based. What I did most of my life was prove everything to everybody. I got this, you know, like, and it was never small. It was always big. And so it took me a long time in life to figure out that pattern where, I mean, I was doing everything, having kids, doing the projects, doing the philanthropy, my own, the teams, um, on boards, uh, creating baseball leagues. I loved all of it. Um, what I’ve gotten better at doing is being present. So probably I was avoiding and filling voids. I grew up in a celebrity lifestyle, very public life. Married right into that. And so for me, I can sit here and say, okay, what’s real? You know, what’s important to me? And I think that another really good thing out of Covid was that we could look at our lives, we could simplify our lives, we could recognize that we could be together and enjoy each other and, and um, be present. And so for me now, it’s where I used to go to bed with no to-do list. I have. Probably two notepads full of to-dos that I have to do. Brett Gilliland: Things, dreams, aspirations to-do list. I’m, uh, I’m gonna change this, uh, subject here a little bit. I li I’ve been liking this question lately. I’m gonna have you pick a number, but I’m on your Instagram, okay, so.. Karen Phelps Moyer: Okay? Brett Gilliland: So, pick a number between one and 10, okay? Okay. Go ahead and say that. What is it? Karen Phelps Moyer: Eight. Brett Gilliland: Okay. And then, uh, now between one and three, pick a number between one and three. Karen Phelps Moyer: Two. Brett Gilliland: Okay. Number two, let’s see. That picture is, uh, looks like you. It says, what a wild weekend of weather and endless fun with dear friends and silly family at Notre Dame. Blessed with the community of Big Brothers, dad’s former players, an awesome brother and his perfect kids. My beautiful Katie Rose and my dedicated loving sailor. Uh, who helped me, uh, tailgate, setup, and so on. So talk to me about that post to you. You probably, I can see your smile on your face so you know exactly what I’m talking about. Karen Phelps Moyer: Well, I’ve been on social media and off social media. Um. Brett Gilliland: Okay. Karen Phelps Moyer: When I was on before, I had a lot more followers. Um, and I’ve been o I went off for a while around my daughter’s mental health. And, um, came back. And so I know my post because I don’t post as much as I used to. And now we have stories, which is where you can post more than where we used to, just right post everything. So that I remember, because I was here at Notre Dame. And this past football season, I hosted tailgates to get the word out about what I was doing with Golden Touch and Golden Minds. And that particular weekend I had my daughter up from her boarding school, which is just south of here in Indiana. I had my significant other here, and it happened to be a game that a lot of my dad’s former players were back. And so the picture is me with, um, a bunch of those guys that are like big brothers to me. And at the end of the day, truthfully, they’ve become mentors and advisors to me in my new business with Golden Touch and Golden Minds. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Karen Phelps Moyer: And so that, you know, I just, to sit and reflect in that and to remember your roots, I think is really important. I’m definitely a nostalgic person that way. Um, but be able to share it with, with my kids. My brother was in town that weekend with some of his kids. So I cherish that kind of stuff. Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. Awesome. Yeah, I love, uh, I love those questions just because it’s neat cuz obviously when people make a post, right, there’s some big meaning behind it. Karen Phelps Moyer: What, how’d you go from the eight to the two? Brett Gilliland: Well, so I just said one through 10 because if you said 20 or I said like one through 50, we’d, I’d have to scroll and count and it’d take forever. So one through 10 was the 10th row on your Instagram, and then one through three. This was the second picture of the three. Karen Phelps Moyer: Oh. Brett Gilliland: Of the way it looks on your Instagram, so. Uh, I’m sure there’s better ways to play the game, but I, uh, that’s, that’s kind of how I’ve done it. And so I think it, it’s cool, right? It’s, uh, you know, like another one here, if you would’ve said third, it says national. Uh, gratitude month, right? Psychologists find that over time feeling grateful, boost happiness, and fosters both physical and psychological health. That was one of your posts. And so, you know, I have a, a journal that’s now out, shameless plug here, live on, uh, it’s on Amazon. But one of the things that we talk about every day is, is your gratitude, right? What, what are the 2, 3, 4 things that you’re thankful for? And I find that even on days where, you know, you wake up, maybe you’re a little tired, had kid events, whatever, is, if I can focus on the things I’m grateful for every day. Man, it’s a game changer, right? And then at the end, I have a gratitude exercise that I think is important that, you know, how many times do we take pictures with these phones, right? We take pictures and we may not look at ’em. Um, but every 90 days I go through and I look at the last 90 days of pictures and I write down everything I got to experience with my wife, my kids, my friends, my firm, whatever, right? All those things. And for the next 90 days I celebrate those and then I look at the next 90 days ahead and say, what experiences can I create? Okay. Hmm. So that’s my exercise. So when you hear that, what comes to mind for you? Karen Phelps Moyer: Well, that’s fantastic. I think the piece that, um, I find most inspiring cuz I do all of what you do is, uh, to look ahead and how, you know, what, how am I, what am I gonna create? Ahead and that, that’s harder for me. I like to really, when you’re really present, you can, I guess that’s setting your intentions more. Uh, um, I look at photos from a year ago, so today I’ll look at photos from a year ago and the year before that, and that really takes me back. I’m, I’m screenshotting those and sending homes to my kids all the time. Brett Gilliland: We do the exact same thing. It’s so awesome. Karen Phelps Moyer: Remember when. Yeah. Um, and no, I, I’m grateful for pictures. I’m definitely that person. I had albums, my first four kids have a lot of photo albums. The rest don’t because… Brett Gilliland: Right. Karen Phelps Moyer: We don’t have… Brett Gilliland: Life gets busy, right. Karen Phelps Moyer: Well, and we don’t print them. We don’t have… Brett Gilliland: Oh, yeah, that’s true. Karen Phelps Moyer: There’s no albums. I mean, it’s all digital, right? Yeah. Yeah. So that’s really great. And that’s, you know, not many men do that, Brett. So I applaud you for that because. Um, to sit in gratitude is really confusing to people. You know, you can be grateful and feel blessed and count your blessings and pay it forward, but to really specifically write it down, um, and to reflect on that. And it can be the smallest thing like I got out of bed. Yeah. You know, and that’s real for a lot of people. Brett Gilliland: Yep. And I think it can change your mindset too, right? Like, I was pissed the other day. My, I have terrible allergies, so I’m like, even right now my eyes, I wanna rip my eyeballs out. They hurt so bad. And, and so I was, I was going down the path of, oh, it’s, you know, My allergies, I’m blah, blah, blah. I’m bitching and moaning about it. And then I’m like, you know what? Today I’m grateful for is the, the grass is turning green, like where I’m at, right? The in St. Louis area, the grass is turning green. The, the flowers are blooming. It’s starting to be warm weather. That means it’s golf weather and, and so and so, it’s amazing how that mind shift change, uh, just by little challenge to yourself. That goes a long way as well. Karen Phelps Moyer: Well, and I, I find too with age, I don’t really wanna be around negativity. I, I don’t even, and it’s a hard country to be in, separating yourself from negativity. Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Karen Phelps Moyer: And all of the, the things that are happening. So you really have to work hard at that. I find myself isolating more than being around people because people are so negative. Um, my, the other thing that I love to do if I’m not at my camps is, uh, to be on mission trips where everybody’s like-minded and we’re all there for the same reason to give back. So, um, the more you can do that in life, the better your days are gonna be. And, um, I think for you, Y you, you know, you’re paying it forward on the podcast, so I, I think it’s great. I appreciate you, you having me. Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Where, uh, where do our listeners find more of you? Where can we, uh, where can we send them in the show notes? Karen Phelps Moyer: Well, I appreciate that. Uh, so probably the best place to find me, um, well, if you’re interested in grief and addiction and my camps, that’s elunanetwork.org. And then, um, Certainly on social media. Um, on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook. Um, but uh, if you are interested, have a friend who’s talking about re-imagining love. Find me at goodmorninggorgeous.com. And then if you’re interested in mental health and student athletes, find me at goldenminds.world Brett Gilliland: Okay. Awesome. What’s been awesome having you, Karen, and uh, really enjoyed our time and, uh, go Irish. Karen Phelps Moyer: Thank you. Uh, thanks Brett.

Brett Gilliland and Tim Hammett share an exceptional bond that extends beyond their roles as business partners at Visionary Wealth Advisors, as they have become friends over nine successful years as partners. In their discussion, Tim Hammett highlights his three core values – trust, respect, and humility – and emphasizes the significance of aligning these values professionally and personally. As the conversation transitions, Brett dives into each circuit of the Circuit of Success to unravel their meanings and how to incorporate these principles into daily activities and routines. Listen in as Brett and Tim recount Brett’s lucky shot and their incredible journey as friends and colleagues. https://youtu.be/wNnrVYj8OX4 Tim Hammett: Big day to be hanging out in this wonderful new studio. Wow. Welcome you to the Circuit of Success Podcast. Let’s start show. Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today you can probably see my smile on my face if you’re watching this cuz I’ve got my good buddy Tim Hammett. Tim’s what’s going on. Tim Hammett: Good morning. Brett Gilliland: How are you? Tim Hammett: Wonderful. Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Visionary Studio. Is this not amazing? Tim Hammett: It looks absolutely beautiful. It’s been, uh, in the planning for a while, so it’s good to see the finished product. Brett Gilliland: I, uh, I think we we’ll have the naming rights for a while, the Visionary Wealth Advisors Studio. For the circumstances. Tim Hammett: So if I pay enough money, could I have my name? Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: As the Hammer. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: Podcast Studio. Brett Gilliland: We’ll do that. The Tim Hammett or Hammer podcast studio. Tim Hammett: I think we could. Brett Gilliland: Brought to you by the Hammer Studios. Uh, well, hey man, we are here, uh, today and, uh, it’s hard to believe that we are nine plus years in the building. Visionary Wealth Advisors. Can you believe that? Tim Hammett: Uh, it went so fast and it does seem like it’s yesterday, but then you start to see, we’re getting older. Our kids are getting older. And then you realize it’s almost a decade. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, it’s crazy. Long time. Your kids were little now you got one Gonna be graduating college soon. Tim Hammett: Yeah. Yeah. 21, 19 and 16 now. Brett Gilliland: Crazy. Tim Hammett: All of ’em driving. Brett Gilliland: Crazy. Tim Hammett: Two in college. Brett Gilliland: I got three teenagers now. I didn’t even have a fourth kid when we started the company. Tim Hammett: I was gonna say you just had your fourth child. Brett Gilliland: I did. At the time we were started Visionary Wealth Advisors. And then, uh, on March 24th, 2014, and then on off, uh, see, that’d be April 29th, 2014, Asher was born. So one month into our business. So, well we could reminisce about that, but I would like to go back and, uh, we’re gonna have all sorts of things we’re gonna talk about today, but let’s go back and, uh, Do you remember the phone call when, uh, you, you looked at your screen and it said, Brett Gilliland or whatever you would’ve called me on your phone at that time. Um, do you remember the phone call, uh, when I called you to talk about business advice? Tim Hammett: I do. Just like it was yesterday. I remember where I was standing in my office. I remember looking out my window, looking out into, uh, the parking lot of our prior business building. Um, Just literally like it was yesterday. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: Yes. Brett Gilliland: Pretty crazy. And so when you think back on that, that, that call, because if, if my mind, uh, my memory serves me correctly, I believe it was about a four hour phone call that neither one of us had planned. Tim Hammett: That’s right. Because I think it would’ve been almost exactly at lunchtime, about 12 noon. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: And then, uh, I was in a prior meeting to that. And that meeting always adjourns about noon. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: And then you called. Brett Gilliland: So I remember I called Tim and I, I, I was thinking to him, and again, a little bit about this, uh, the history of Visionary and then, uh, I also want to talk about values and what it means to, uh, just your own personal beliefs, but then to a culture and just, and you, you as a human being, right? I think those are, are critically important. So, um, but when we talked for four hours, I remember I called Tim and I was like, Hey, what keeps you happy, right, in, in your practice and thinking that I would get all sorts of great, you know, news and wisdom and, and you know, it’d be a 30 minute conference call and the rest is history. Well, that, that again turned into a four hour conference call and us starting Visionary Wealth Advisors. So for you, what was it that you wanted to take this leap? You wanted to take this step, you wanted to go out and start a company? You know, I’ve said it before, like it, it’s, it’s pretty difficult. I think you’re just gonna go start this new wealth management company, right? A new adv and new website and new logo and name and you know, people and real estate and all the stuff right. That we’ve had to do over the years. But what was it about you that made you think, yeah, you know what, man, I can, I can pull that off. Tim Hammett: That’s a phenomenal question. Um, I think at that stage in my professional life, I had been, uh, in the industry for 22 years at that time. And I think there was a, a desire to take the client relationships to a higher level, to have, um, a deeper, more meaningful relationship with the clients. And I knew we could do it. Um, I knew there was opportunities in the marketplace to do that. I think culture. Is extremely important in any organization. And I was seeking, uh, again, to expand and grow beyond the culture that I was at at that time. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. So now, fast forwarding the nine, nine plus years, and, and you’re sitting here today and you’re in our Visionary studio, what do you, what do you think? How, how do you feel you, we pulled it off. Tim Hammett: It was hard. I mean, I won’t, I won’t lie. It was. Brett Gilliland: It was and is. Tim Hammett: It was and is. It’s not easy to do, uh, what we had done, but I think it was worth it. Every moment of it is worth it. Because I think the culture that we have today, and it’s the people, you know, any organization that’s just made up of, of human beings, Wonderful human beings. And I tell my friends, my family, um, from both aspects, we have the best clients in the world and we have the best teammates and associates that make up our day-to-day culture. And for me, that’s worth it. You know, even if the business aspect of, um, running, running an organization, you know, profits and growth, even if those things were average. It was 100% worth it for culture and people. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, for me it’s having the, the trust and, and faith and attitude and action and beliefs and all those things in ourself. And I, I led with that word trust on purpose because you probably know where I’m going and people that, especially people that work in our firm know. Uh, those words, if I ask anybody in our firm for those watching this, if, if I said, name Tim Hammett’s, three values, they would be able to spit ’em off, right? Trust, respect, humility. Okay. Tim Hammett: Absolutely. Brett Gilliland: So we’re gonna dive into values cuz I think that is so critically important for us as human beings and leaders and parents and, and spouses and friends, is to have that values alignment. Right. And I think our values can either be aligned or misaligned. And thankfully for us, our values have been aligned for nine plus years. So, but when I say trust, respect, humility. Do you recall where you happened to find those three words? That now you’ve made them part of your life. Do you remember like a process or where those came about, those three words? Tim Hammett: Absolutely. Yeah. I had a business mentor and a business coach that I work with now. It’s been over probably 25 years ago. And Ted, who is still a very close friend of mine today, and Bob was my mentor. Very wonderful people. And it’s interesting cuz Ted had asked me a question, you know what is important to me. What’s the most important elements to my life? We would say values. And it took a long time to be able to articulate that. Um, it was a journey going back really to childhood, um, life experiences, I think through joy and tragedy that makes up the fabric of a person’s life. And we spent probably two to three years talking through that. And there was experiences, um, That happened to me, I guess you’d say, or that impacted me as a younger person and we came up with those three core values. Trust, respect, humility. And I’ll pause there for a second cuz you made a comment a minute ago about our professional and uh, personal relationship, and I’m convinced the reason that we’ve had such a successful period of time, the last nine years is I have a deep values connection with you because I do feel respected. I do feel trust, uh, from you. I feel trusted, and then you treat me with humility. So as long as my values are being met and my needs are being met, Um, I’m fulfilled as a person and as a professional, so thank you for that. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, absolutely. And thank you. Let, let’s elaborate on some of those. So trust, when you, again, let’s speak that word only trust. What does that mean to you? How do you, how does Tim Hammett define the word trust? Tim Hammett: I think trust is, um, something that has to be earned over a period of time, and I think through consistency of, um, behavior. Consistency of doing what you say you’re gonna do. Integrity. I might be able to earn someone’s trust over a period of time, but obviously it can never be commanded or demanded any of these values. Um, and I’ll go backwards, I think. Maybe the context of this. Early in my career, we’re in the financial services industry. So, um, as a younger person, I started when I was really age 22. Brett Gilliland: Right. Tim Hammett: And, you know, had no knowledge, had no life wisdom, had no experience. Um, the relationships with clients were more transactional. They were, it was more of a, a commodity, the services that I was helping people with and did not feel deep sense of trust. I hadn’t earned it. Brett Gilliland: Right. Tim Hammett: For my clients. And that feeling was so, um, thin or so hollow. I did not want that as a professional as I aged. That was really where it started from. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, um, which probably then leads you into the word respect because why? Tim Hammett: Well, I think I had another good friend of mine said, you know, any relationship, it can never thrive without respect. No relationship can thrive without a foundation of respect and… Brett Gilliland: Two-way street. Right? Tim Hammett: Yeah. Very much so. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: Right. Tim Hammett: Yeah, very much so. Yeah. Yes. And, and let’s pause there for a second because what I think I’ve learned over the last nine years is that when a relationship has not come to fruition or not been sustained, there has been a break in values. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: Um, other, you know, Businesses that we have to deal with, uh, you might call it vendors or other professionals. Um, any of our team members, if there has not been trust, respect, and humility, the relationship hasn’t thrived and ultimately many times ceases. Brett Gilliland: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So again, so trust, respect, and humility. Define humility for me from your lens. Tim Hammett: Um, I think humility is putting another person’s needs and desires above yourself. Thinking of them first and serving them in that way. Uh, again, when people have shown me humility, it’s been the most refreshing thing I see that, you know, we see that. I think in the business world, we see it in the sports world. Um, performing arts, even just day-to-day life, moms and dads and uh, friends. Uh, the people who usually have some of the greatest skill sets. Are the most humble. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: They don’t have to mention it. They don’t have to talk about it. They embody it. Um, and they’re humble. That’s, that’s, I’m, so that’s one of the greatest things I’m attracted to. Brett Gilliland: That’s, I say that’s a big at attractor for you. Um, so, so value is obviously very important to trust, respect, humility. What advice would you have for somebody that’s listening to this that. They may not, they may know, kind of know their values, but you’ve got those things ingrained people around, you know what those are. What advice would you have for them to kind of get those ingrained into their, into their soul, right, into their core of who they are as a human being and articulate those to people? How, what advice would you have for them? Tim Hammett: It’s a very interesting question because I think when you ask someone what are your core values, it’s hard for people to articulate those. You know, they will, uh, they’ll pause for a little bit and I think if you ask them to go back in their life story, uh, I think it’s in their life story. That, again, through joy and tragedy, if they reflect back on that, they will be able to define. It takes time, but they will be able to define what’s most meaningful to them. Um, That’s what I’ve asked people and I love hearing people’s stories. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: Absolutely love it. I could probably sit for, you know, an entire gathering or get together and hear somebody’s life story. Two, three hours. Brett Gilliland: Maybe that’s the Tim, Tim Hammett podcast. Tim Hammett: That could be the Tim Hammett podcast. Your life story. Brett Gilliland: Tell me your story with Tim Hammett Tim Hammett: Tell me your. Brett Gilliland: Um, so when you think about, uh, as a business owner, as a leader, as a husband, a spouse, you know, all, all these things, husband and spouse be the same thing, wouldn’t it? Um, but as a person that you are, how do you deal with hard things? And then do you use the lens of trust, respect, humility, to make decisions when things are very difficult? Tim Hammett: It’s funny because many times if I’m dealing with something hard, it’s probably because I’ve created it. Brett Gilliland: Right? Tim Hammett: It’s probably my error first. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: Uh, so I think the first thing I try to do is I’ll reflect on my feelings. I have to be in tune with my feelings. You know, we can think and we can feel, we have the head and we have the heart. So the very first thing I’ll do is I’ll push away from a situation and try to define, well what am I feeling right now? Brett Gilliland: And can I, let’s peel that onion layer back. So is that like you sitting down, I know you carry your yellow notepad. I’ve got my journal everywhere I go, right? Tim Hammett: Yeah. Brett Gilliland: So is that you with your yellow notepad? Is that you with just a random piece of paper? Like what is that process? Or is it just you thinking like you’re not actually writing things down? Like what do you actually do when you say, what were my feelings? How am I feeling? What’s that process like? Tim Hammett: I try to do it if I can in the moment. Brett Gilliland: Okay. Tim Hammett: So I’ll have some primary feelings, whether it’s frustration or um, sadness, you know, anger, who knows what the feeling is. Brett Gilliland: Mm-hmm. Tim Hammett: Sometimes it’s joy, sometimes it’s, uh, laughter, you know, uh, a lighthearted feeling. But I’ll pause in the moment, especially if it’s something that’s conflicting and I’ll try to pause in the moment. And then if not, if I can’t and I get too worked up or too fired up, then when I leave, if I’m driving in my car, if I’m at my home, if I’m back in my office, I need to take a few moments and then I will also many times journal. Make notes to it. Brett Gilliland: And that’s why I was gonna say, I think one of your strengths is somebody that’s been able to watch this in the front row is, You always show up very prepared, and you show up with notes, right? Tim Hammett: Yes. Brett Gilliland: Like bullet pointed and Oh my gosh, I wish I’d have done more of that. Right? Like, I, I think that’s for people listening, it’s, it’s when, when Tim deals with something good or bad, right? Even joy, it doesn’t have to be bad, right? Tim Hammett: That’s right. Brett Gilliland: Something that’s joyful, something great at work happens. I think you do a very good job of slowing down and articulating exactly what happened in that moment almost. And I assume this is, again, me thinking this, um, about you is so you can almost edit copy, edit, paste, right? Tim Hammett: Yes. Brett Gilliland: I learned this good thing happened, write it down. Now let’s just go out and do that again. Right. And do that again. Tim Hammett: Yeah. And it’s interesting because I will have a feeling and then if they have the feeling, then I need to be able to think about it. Can I, can I. Organize the thought, can I speak it and articulate it? And ultimately then that fourth stage is, can I write it? And by the time I get to that stage, then I have probably gone through that cycle and I’ve thought through it. Hopefully pretty clearly. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. When there’s power in writing, like I’m a big believer in writing down your goals every single day of, you know, of the next 90 days. Write these goals down every single day. Because I believe if I write ’em down every day, then they’re probably gonna happen, right? So I would assume for you that writing is like that, that tattoo on the brain that remembers it and, and kind again, get more of it. Tim Hammett: Yeah. And what it will also do, it’s, I think it’s pretty, um, therapeutic. That process lets the feeling subside or become more balanced. Brett Gilliland: Mm-hmm. Maybe. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Tim Hammett: Uh, and then I can go back to the individual, or to the person, or to that event. And deal with it, I would hope, in a healthy manner. Brett Gilliland: Right, right. So I got asked, uh, by a very smart person actually this morning. They’re from our production team that’s here, and they’re crushing it is, uh, the 10,000 hour rule. Are you familiar with the 10,000 hour rule? Tim Hammett: I’m familiar with that rule. Brett Gilliland: And so what is your thoughts on the 10,000 hour rule? I thought it was a great question and I had my response, but I would, I’m curious on what your response is to somebody. If you had to give advice to somebody that learned about this 10,000 hour rule, what advice would you give them? Do you agree with it? Do you not agree with it? What are your thoughts on the 10,000 hour rule? Tim Hammett: I would, I mean, I believe that there’s a lot of truth to that. I think there’s universal truths in life, right? Mm-hmm. Whether it’s 10,000 hours or, you know, 8,000 or 12,000 hours. Um, I’ve seen a quote that, you know, successful people will do ordinary tasks day in and day out. They can be very boring, very rote, very routine. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: And they will ultimately deliver extraordinary results, which I think plays into this 10,000 hour rule. Brett Gilliland: Right? Tim Hammett: Philosophy. It takes. Numerous, numerous interactions of the same repetitive thing probably before you master it. We’ve seen it in great sports again, uh, performers, uh, the music industry, uh, work, moms and dads, right? You see these mothers day in and day out, potentially doing the same tasks. Fathers, blue collar laborers, white collar professionals. Very calmly. I read a book recently on Humility. It was a phenomenal book, and it just talked about that, that day in and day out. People are serving their communities, doing things, then they’re unnoticed, they’re hidden, um, and they’re incredible at what they do. But nowadays, unfortunately, it seems as though, you know, society is seeking to be recognized for their work. And there was an interesting definition. It said, you know, success previously used to be doing a job extremely well. Well, nowadays success might be doing the job well, but you must get public recognition for it. Um, but back to your 10,000 hour rule, I would think that’s true. Yeah. Um, and it takes long time repetitively over and over again. Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah, I think it’s a great answer. And I think, um, similar to how I, I think about that rule though, is that. Somebody can hear 10,000 hours and think that’s a long time, right? I mean, the average work year they say is what, 2000 hours, right? Yep. Mm-hmm. So I mean, we’re talking five years before you can quote, unquote master something, but usually successful people wanna master something immediately, right? That, that’s kind of how we think. Mm-hmm. And so my, my hope for people is they don’t read something like that and think, oh, I’ll never do that. Or I’m not gonna wait five years for it. So then it’s the old paralysis by analysis, right? You, you’re analyzing this thing. So much that you just don’t even go take action. And one of the circuits on the Circuit of Success is action. Tim Hammett: Yes. Brett Gilliland: As you gotta go, take action and kind of build the bridge as you’re, you know, walking across the river, right? Mm-hmm. And so that’s my only point. I thought it was a great question when I was asked earlier, and, uh, so I wanted to get your perspective on it. So, um, we talked about dealing with hard things. We talked about your, your values so important. Um, but you mentioned a word earlier too that I think that you and I both agree with is, is huge in our culture and in a, a relationship is laughter. \ Tim Hammett: Yes. Brett Gilliland: So… Tim Hammett: Yes. Brett Gilliland: When you hear that laughter for anybody watching this, what, what would you talk about in the, in the work setting, you know, and just in life? How important is laughter? Tim Hammett: Well, lightheartedness is needed in any relationship and laughter. I think that also is, it’s synergistic and it goes hand in hand. I would also say with humility, you know, you need to be able to laugh at yourself first. And as you… Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Tim Hammett: Would know certain tasks and things that I do, uh, and certain behaviors that are classic Tim Hammett behaviors that are as silly and as goofy as can be. You have to be able to laugh at yourself. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: Um, when I think, when you see they say, you know, again, um, very successful people performing their work at a really high level, it’s joyful. Not always. Obviously there’s stressful moments, but, uh, I’ve seen that in the sporting world. You see great athletes when they’re in their zone. Brett Gilliland: Yep. Tim Hammett: Right? And they’re in flow. There’s a book about that. When they are in flow and in their zone, um, they’re happy. And there’s, there’s a lot of genetics that go into that, right? Brett Gilliland: Right. Yep. I’m, I’m, I’m smiling and laughing as you’re saying it, as I was even picturing just some laughter we had recently on a golf course. You know, you’re able to laugh at yourself. Tim Hammett: Yes. Brett Gilliland: You know, but we have fun. Tim Hammett: It’s funny. Brett Gilliland: Really fun. Tim Hammett: I laughed about that occurrence over this weekend. So I’ll tell you a quick story. So, uh, Brett Gilliland is an extremely good golfer and, uh, I am not. So, which makes him laugh. So when you’re on the golf course, there’s golf etiquette. Part of golf etiquette is when the other player is getting ready to hit their ball and hit a stroke, hopefully everyone around them is quiet so they can focus and hit a good stroke. Brett Gilliland: That’s right. That’s right. Tim Hammett: So, uh, I’m notorious, uh, as I get, uh, wound up. And start to be kind of Mr. Fun guy, silly guy. I might start talking and joking and I was joking with Brett as my own golf partner in this tournament was getting ready to hit his ball and it, you know, it’s ridiculous and it almost drives a guy like Brett just crazy cuz he’s like, what are you doing? Please be quiet while your partner is hitting his ball. Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Tim Hammett: So, classic Tim Hammett move right now. Brett Gilliland: Well, and so we’re speaking of humility. I will also have some humility and say that I was the one handing cash over at the end of the day to you and your partner that me and my partner lost. We got beat. Tim Hammett: In the history of our relationship, I’ve seen Brett Gilliland do some of the most amazing things on the golf course. I’ve seen him, I’ve filmed him hitting a hole in one, his first hole in one, maybe your only hole in one… Brett Gilliland: It’s right there. Tim Hammett: …in your entire life. Is that right? Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Tim Hammett: Okay. And, uh, it was absolutely dumb luck. I’ve seen him, uh, shoot the course record at, um, Red Tiger World Famous Golf course in Florida. He shot the course record. I have witnessed that. But last week I also witnessed for the first time in my career beating Brett Gilliland, my team, and I cannot take any credit for this. I had an excellent partner. Excellent partner. Uh, that’s why we beat him. So.. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: It felt good to take your money. Brett Gilliland: I’m sure it did. That’s good. That’s great. Tim Hammett: Excellent. Brett Gilliland: Congratulations. We’re all real happy for you. Um, books, the Power of Reading. So, you know, I like to talk about 10 pages a day. I know you are a reader. Tim Hammett: Yes. Brett Gilliland: It’s, I saw something. Was it, uh, I can’t remember who said it, but he said, all, all readers are not leaders, but all leaders are readers. Tim Hammett: Hmm. great quote. Brett Gilliland: And it is. And uh, so when you hear that and you, you think about your reading, uh, discipline, uh, how important is that to you? Tim Hammett: It’s incredibly important. Um, I’ll also go backwards really, in the career. As a student. Uh, in college, I didn’t really, I think, know how to truly academically study and read. Until I became a professional and, uh, it was one of the most life-changing things for me. It helped me with, um, growing my career and growing my academic knowledge. And then as an adult, a series of key books. And I’m just amazed at how many great authors there are in the world. Yeah. And so many words of wisdom. Um, unbelievably helpful for me though. So I I do have a question for you. Brett Gilliland: Let’s do it. Tim Hammett: So the Circuit of Success, it’s a philosophy. Brett Gilliland: Mm-hmm. Tim Hammett: And then this has evolved into a very successful podcast. So I’ll, I’ll let you brag about yourself a little bit. Brett Gilliland: Huh? Tim Hammett: Do you know how many followers you have? Brett Gilliland: I have no idea. I try not to track the numbers. Okay. Uh, because then I think you can get caught up with that. I, I mean, I have a somewhat of a sense of how many people listen every single week and watch on whether it’s listen or watch. I have a pretty good sense of it, but I don’t, I don’t follow it. Tim Hammett: Did you get, I think, um, A type of a ranking at the end of the year, they are able to rank different podcasts I think. Did I hear something like that? Brett Gilliland: We, yeah. We’ve been, uh, the podcast, uh, I, and again, I don’t know what exactly I should, but it’s like, uh, top entrepreneurial podcast and, and business leader podcast. Tim Hammett: I think I remember that. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: Yeah. So I’ll brag about you for a little bit. Is running a podcast is incredibly hard. And I’ve said this to you numerous times. Yeah. And I’ll say it again today, to be able to deliver, uh, weekly content and to be able to do it consistently, you have a passion about that. So, you know, you couldn’t force me to do this. I am not a podcaster. Brett Gilliland: Right. Tim Hammett: Right. Um, at all. But you have a passion for it. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: So where did that passion come from and, and I’ll start with that and I’ll have my secondary question about maybe the history of the philosophy of the Circuit of Success. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, it’s a, it’s a great question. I like being, uh, the flip the script here. Now you’re the host. Um, but I think the passion comes from, uh, you said earlier you love hearing people’s stories, and I love hearing people’s stories. I love learning how people, what makes them tick. I, I, I want to know. You know about your values, I want to know whatever. Right? Any of the, I think you’re the 300. No, we’ve had numerous interviews, but, you know, 339th interview. Tim Hammett: Wow. Brett Gilliland: In, in six years, the wealth of knowledge that I’ve been given, right, by other people I is why I continue to do it, right. To your point, it’s, it’s not easy, but at the same time it’s, it’s not, um, as difficult maybe as it seems when you’re passionate about something. Tim Hammett: That’s right. Brett Gilliland: So whether that’s podcasting, wealth management, you and I have that passion of helping clients. It, it’s, it’s not work when you’re, when you love what you do, like I, I was excited. I couldn’t wait to get to interview, even though we’ve talked 5 million times. Yeah. I couldn’t wait for this podcast because I truly love hearing the nuggets that people share, the wisdom that they share, that they give, um, on this podcast every single week. And then I get to take that information. And share it with the world, right. Through my platform. And then I get to share it more importantly with my kids, right. I think that’s important With four boys, I come home all the time and say, guess what I learned today? And, and share that with people. Cuz I also like to learn of what has somebody done. I think you, you’ve been in the business 30 years now. Yep. If I can learn from somebody for 30 years and then add that to my life, well, I’ve been doing it 22 years. If you’re 30 plus year, I can just, I can shave 10 years off. Yeah. Of learning, right? Just by learning from you. And so that’s why I love it. That’s why I do it week in and week out, is to hear stories and then share ’em with others. Our clients, I share stuff all the time in client meetings that I’ve learned from this podcast. Tim Hammett: What is that philosophy about that circle of Success? Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: There’s different quadrants to that. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: Talk about that. Brett Gilliland: So the first one is your attitude. Uh, I believe that your attitude is everything. And I always say your attitude decides where you go. Your discipline will decide how fast you get there. And I have yet, in 22 years, seen anybody that’s had a really bad attitude have long-term su sustainable success. And so if I want to have long-term sustainable success, and you do, and so does the man or woman listening to this, well, I believe it’s your attitude and who is in control of your attitude is, is you, me. Right? I’m in control of my attitude. Like my alarm clock went off this morning just like yours did, right? And when it went off this morning, I could have said, oh wow. I think I had, you know, a whopping three hours of awake time at home this weekend, right? Kids events and track meets and soccer games and baseball and golf and you name it, right? All the things. Uh, we’re all busy in life, but I also could get up and have a great attitude and think about the blessings I’ve been given today. I can think about the people I get to surround myself with today and think about how lucky I am to live the life that I’m living. Tim Hammett: Yes. Brett Gilliland: That’s my choice. That’s my attitude. So that’s the first one. Second is your belief system, right? So your belief system is important because from attitude to belief, there’s this thing called rejection. We all get it. Everybody listens to this podcast. We get rejection every single day. Your attitude decides how you’re gonna react to that. But your belief system, like something to your core, decides what you do with it from there. So I have a deep belief in God, there’s a higher power. Okay. I have a belief in myself. There’s the humble humility side, but you also have to believe in yourself. You wouldn’t be where you are if you didn’t. Believe in yourself. Believe in yourself. Believe in goal planning and goal achievement. Okay? Believe in a process, whatever that process is. We have our process at Visionary. Somebody else listens to this, has their process. You have to be believe in that to your core, or that rejection will just. It’ll take you out. It will. You’ll buckle your knees and you’re done. It’s over with. Then from your belief system down to actions, there’s this thing called faith. Not just faith in the higher power, but when you start in the business, they told you what? Go make 40 phone calls. Go get five referrals. You can build a financial planning practice. You had no idea you were a 22 year old punk kid, right? You had no idea, but you went and you did those things and you did more of it. And you had faith, and you continue to build your faith. And if you and I are having discussions today, you may say, Hey, we need to do this, this, and this. And if I don’t see it from that lens, but I trust you, I respect you, I’m gonna have faith that what Tim Hammett is saying is going to work. Tim Hammett: Yep. Brett Gilliland: And then I have to go take action, right? Action. 10,000 hours or do I take action today? Minute one, minute two, and then eventually I will get to 10,000 hours. Then you get courage, pers perseverance and discipline. Yeah, there’s there, it takes those three things to go out and get the ultimate one, which is the last quadrant of the Circuit of Success is results. And I always, I always put it this way for the St. Louis Cardinals, if you walk into the Cardinal game, the thing you look at the most is what the jumbotron. Yep. How many times did I get out? What’s my batting average? What’s the score? How many errors, you know, how many hits do I have? A runners in scoring position? There’s all the results you would ever want, and they’re not getting good results right now, but all the results you would ever want are right there in a jumbotron. In life, we don’t have that. There’s not a visionary jumbotron when you walk in the office to see how is Tim Hammett doing? Right? But your attitude, your belief, your actions ultimately get the results that you want, and then that creates a new vision. So I share all the time that I’ve got these journals and it goes back to 2005, July of oh five. That from those, those results have created a new vision. Things I wanted to do when I was 23 are different than I said here at 45, right? Vision’s way different, and so then I go back. That vision then carries me to my attitude, what’s my attitude, my beliefs, my actions in my results. Tim Hammett: So, so I’ll say back. Brett Gilliland: Tim Hammock classic. Lemme classic tell you back. Tim Hammett: I’ll say back what I hear you say. So for the Circuit of Success, attitude starts with attitude. Brett Gilliland: Yep. Tim Hammett: You have beliefs, part of those beliefs. Faith, one of the most important again, faith in God. Faith in yourself. Action, action.. Ultimately action then will deliver results. Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Tim Hammett: And I think you have a, a symbol really, or almost an insignia. And it’s a circle, right? Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: Obviously the circle of success. Yeah. And there’s four quadrants inside that circle. Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Tim Hammett: And I know you quite well, really probably housed and protected by a belief in God. Tell me about this journal then, because you, in the past, Really, I think, you know, 90 to 120 days have printed and developed a journal that is, I believe, for sale on Amazon. Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Tim Hammett: Uh, for the public to buy. And how did that come to fruition? Brett Gilliland: Well, I didn’t know. This wasn’t part of my planning, so I didn’t know you were gonna ask me questions. So, uh, it’s a nice surprise, but I, I would just say it’s been 20, you know, plus years of, of things coming together that I wanted to have in one spot. And I think, you know, whether it’s your phone or your iPad and computer to a piece of paper, um, I wanted to have a game plan for me that it took all the emotion out of my day. And, and so, okay, I need to do this or I need to do that. And for, you know, and so when I look at my, you know, the daily, the daily planner from my water intake to what I’m grateful for, my goals, what I’m most proud of, my biggest challenge, my try something new, who did I help? You know, writing down my goals every single day that are the next 90 day goals. Um, my reading, my exercise, it’s all in one spot. Right. And so it takes the emotion out of did I do this, did I do that? Because I think as humans, especially people that, you know, uh, wanting, wanting to achieve a future greater than their past, hence the name of the, of the journal, um, is there’s a lot of things that we gotta go do, right? And, and you’re a busy, busy business leader and you have a, you know, wife and three kids. And I wanted a, a, a person that’s busy that could go to this and, and have one spot, some pre-work do 90 days. Post work, ask yourself some really challenging questions. Go through a gratitude worksheet, and then regroup and do the next 90 days, right? So this is a game plan that will take you, you know, quarter after quarter, after quarter after quarter through a successful, uh, life that I think that I’ve learned from other people. I’ve learned from you, I’ve learned from my clients, and I’ve put it all in one spot so you can go out and achieve the success that you wanna have. Tim Hammett: It’s interesting to talk again about these universal truths. And again, a recent book that I had read it talked about the need for us to have, um, self-reflection, right? And accountability, self-assessment. And I know you’re big on that, and I think that’s what this book will help as a tool. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: And then my last interview question is I pirate the interview today. Uh, welcome to the Tim Hammett. Uh, Trust, humility, respect Podcast is we’re sitting in a podcast studio in the Visionary building in O’Fallon, Illinois. Brett Gilliland: Yep. Tim Hammett: And so to watch you develop this from, you know, purchasing microphones and purchasing, um, lights and a soundboard or an editing board and software, To doing this in your office, to doing it in, um, your home. And now we’re sitting in a podcast studio. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Tim Hammett: So what does this feel like? Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s funny, so I’m gonna tell a little story and, uh, so one, it feels amazing. It, it’s, it’s kind of unreal. And, uh, you know, you… Tim Hammett: And I think today is the first day of utilizing the podcast. Mm-hmm. Can I say, I’m the first guest in… Brett Gilliland: You are the first podcast guest. Tim Hammett: …guest in the studio. Brett Gilliland: We did a Facebook Live, uh, event in here with Elizabeth and Katie. Tim Hammett: That’s exactly right. That’s right. Brett Gilliland: And um, and so it wasn’t totally complete at the time, but this is the first official podcast interview. In this studio, and you’re gonna take this sharpie and you’re gonna write on the wall, you’re gonna be the first one to write on the wall. Uh, but I want, if I can, I wanna tell a story that I think, uh, uh, it’s kind of full circle and I believe in manifesting things in your life. If you put things out there and you go public and you share your goals, you share your dreams with people. That doesn’t mean you’re gonna hit every single goal right in life, but I have just seen it for decades of sharing goals with people and then things happen, how they happen. I have no idea how they happen. So what people don’t see right now is a three. They see three amazing dudes sitting here. Uh, I have a dream that is, uh, I don’t listen to the full interviews and I, I won’t say the name cuz I’m sure some people would be pissed off if I listen to this guy or don’t listen to guy. But a, a big podcaster. How’s a guy? That he can always say his name and they’ll pull stuff on the screen and they do production and they do video. I have a dream to have my own team one day. Okay. I just put it out there. I tell people my goal is to have this person, cuz then I’m, I’m usually the guy that’s doing the buttons and doing the cameras and all while I’m trying to interview people and have fun. And now we’ve got three dudes sitting here that are amazing. You got all this equipment in our studio that we’ve invested in, and you know how that happened. It happened on a plane ride. And you know how it happened when a plane ride, I didn’t fly for eight years because of fear. I got on an airplane and I watched these dudes, especially that dude right there. He happened to sit right next to me. He, you know, he had no clue. He told me this morning that I was, you know, I was scared of death and praying and, well, no, I was praying to God that we’re not gonna crash, you know, like all these things, right? And, but I watched him work and then I see this guy on the window seat, he’s working and uh, and they’re pulling up this guy named Tim Grover. Tim Grover, for people like me in my world is a big deal. Like that’s Michael Jordan made the statement without Tim Grover, I wouldn’t have been Michael Jordan. Do you need any more endorsement of your Tim Grover? No, you don’t. And so these dudes are working their magic and I’m like, holy crap, that’s Tim Grover. But people don’t like to talk on airplanes. I didn’t want to bother ’em. They’re working and, and then you know, you gotta put everything away. We’re getting ready to land. And, uh, I said, Tim Grover, I said something to him, what do you guys do? And he starts talking and I’m thinking, oh, these are some big shots from like Chicago or LA or something that they’re working with Tim Grover and, and blah, blah, blah. We start talking for the next 30 minutes. And… Tim Hammett: Because you’re flying to Florida this Brett Gilliland: time? I’m flying to Florida to our office. To meet you. Tim Hammett: From O’Fallon to Florida. Brett Gilliland: Yes. And, and here these guys are working and uh, and so they’re like, yeah, we, we live in St. Louis and you know, he comes down and films some stuff and we’re heading to a conference. We’re gonna film some people. I’m like, Holy smokes, and we keep talking and you know, they’re one of their other guys is not here. He is pretty passionate, wouldn’t you say? Oh yeah, yeah. He’s a pretty passionate guy. They’re shaking their heads and laughing and now he’s in, right. He sees, he sees Visionary Wealth Advisors, a, a successful wealth management firm. He sees the podcast, he’s, he’s locked in on what I’m doing. Right. And now we’re, we’re walking to the baggage claims and I’m seeing all this equipment and. You know, this is a long story, but I, I believe in manifesting in life, and I don’t even remember what your original question was, but, uh oh, the, the coolness of this, it’s even cooler to think, to have these guys sitting here for our first interview and to think that’s a dream. And then it happens and you don’t really even know how it happens. Right. And so it’s just amazing. And, uh, so I thank you guys for being here. It’s pretty cool. And Joey reached out to me and he is like, Hey man, we wanna work with you. We wanna work with some guys in St. Louis. You’re one of ’em. Can we make it happen? I’m like, let’s give it a shot, man. Let’s go. And, and now here we are. And that was like Thursday and this is a Monday, and now we got a whole crew of guys here and cameras and lights and all this stuff. So I just, I think again, for people listening, man, it’s like share your goals, share your dreams, share your aspirations. Share ’em with the business partner and then that trust, respect, humility that we talked about earlier. Mm-hmm. You could, I shouldn’t say care less. You do care. You were very supportive of me doing this, but why did you, because you had to invest money in this too, right? Mm-hmm. And so he invests money in somebody else’s dream and, and I just think it’s cool. The whole thing comes full circle and it’s just, it’s amazing to sit here and you know, to think I had to call you and say, Hey, we’re gonna buy this really expensive table. You cool with that? Yep. I trust you. Right. I respect you. Right. We’re gonna make this happen. We’re gonna figure it out. And, uh, it’s just really cool, man. Tim Hammett: Well, I’ll, I’ll comment a little bit on that is another classic line I always talk about is everyone has a brilliance. Mm-hmm. Not that I have by any means, created that. Right? There’s great philosophers and, um, authors who have spoken about that, but this clearly is your brilliance. You have passion for it. Um, you’re talented at it. Uh, Passion, right? And so when you see someone working in their billions, it’s, it’s inspiring. And I think that’s part of your word, I think for your, uh, inspiring podcast. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Tim Hammett: Um, I have no desire for that. And my wife and I were just talking about this a week ago, um, and I was bragging to my wife about you, and I said, you know what? If I needed to hire someone or invest in an entity like these professional men and women who do this for a living. You know, it costs hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars, even more than that, I’m sure. Brett Gilliland: Right, right. Yep. Tim Hammett: Um, so I’m glad you’re doing it and, uh, to see it come to fruition, it’s, it’s awesome. Brett Gilliland: Well, thank you and I appreciate your support, man. It’s been, uh, it’s been awesome. And so we’re gonna turn this back to the Circuit of Success hosted by Brett Gilliland. And I’m gonna ask you one final question. Tim Hammett: Yes. Brett Gilliland: If you had to go back and tell Tim Hammett give him some advice, let’s, let’s go. You got a 10 year advice you gotta give him. So Right when we’re thinking about starting Visionary, give that Tim Hammett some advice, and then just give Tim Hammett the younger version some advice just for life. Right. What, what advice would you have for Tim? Tim Hammett: That’s, it’s interesting because each year, and I’ve, I’ve, I’ve actually been laxed on this for a couple years, but then this year I’ve, I’ve started the process again. You’ve heard people say they might choose a word for the year. Mm-hmm. Right? Yep. And it’s a theme. And, uh, my wife is excellent about that. She has, uh, a group of women that, uh, she’s very close with, and they’ve done this for years. So the word for this year is grace. Uh, I have, uh, a psychologist that I work with and he and I talked through this and my wife and I talked through this, you know, what was the definition of grace. And it’s to maybe show someone, uh, really love and support That’s unmerited. It’s unstated, right? Unmerited. Unstated. Mm-hmm. And so, um, and Unrequested, that was the third element to it. And so what I had done, I had gotten a picture of myself as a third grade child. So it’s funny you’re asking this question because, uh, Roger, Roger Hall, uh, unbelievably good person. So as Roger and I talked about this, You know, I said, well, I think we all have a child within, so what would I say or how would I show grace to that child within as a third grader? And I think all of us could do that, you know? So what advice, you say, what I do? Well, if I go back to say Tim Hammett, or on those days everybody would call me Timmy. Um, I’d show him Grace. Show you grace, you know, show myself grace today. Um, that’d be the first thing I do. And I would also say, uh, trust your feelings. Feelings are generally correct 99% of the time. Yep. Good or bad. Trust feelings and be yourself. Be your genuine, authentic self. I think that’s one reason why this works now because I think I can be my genuine, authentic self with our business partnership, our friendship, the firm, the culture, um, and then define your values. Spend time. They say in the classroom of silence. Think, define your values, trust your feelings. Show yourself grace. Brett Gilliland: Love it man. Thanks so much for being with me on the first podcast edition with these three amazing dudes. We got a team here. Tim Hammett: Thank you. Brett Gilliland: And uh, it’s been awesome having you on The Circuit of Success, my man. Tim Hammett: Be good. Love you.

Chip Caray is an American television broadcaster known for his work with the Atlanta Braves and now working with the St. Louis Cardinals. Chip shares valuable insights from his broadcasting career, succeeding his father and grandfather in the same industry. He reflects on the lessons he has learned while on the road with baseball teams. He talks about his 27 ‘seasons’ with his wife, the importance of having his support system back at home, and the challenges and sacrifices of his job. https://youtu.be/Juurqrs3Y4o Brett Gilliland: Welcome to The Circle of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got Chip Carey with me. Chip, how you doing? Chip Caray: I’m doing great, Brett. How are you? Brett Gilliland: I’m good man. It’s good to be with you. You are, uh, the new voice of the St. Louis Cardinals. We’re well, a new, we’re a couple. We’re about a month and a half in now, right? Chip Caray: Well, the newness hasn’t worn off. I’m still the new guy, so, uh… Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Chip Caray: It’s been a wonderful experience and, uh, really a dream come true growing up here and never imagining this opportunity would take place. Uh, it’s been quite a whirlwind last several, four or five months, but hey, that’s the life we’ve chosen and I wouldn’t have it any other way. So offering… Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Well, I’m sure you’re, I’m, I’m sure you’re glad that we’re talking now eight days, uh, later than say seven days ago. Cause what, what are we, seven of the last date? Some victories here for the Cardinals. Chip Caray: Yeah, it’s a lot more fun when you win. Uh, it’s been a topsy turvy season, but that’s the nature of the game. Uh, we say it all the time. You play 1 62 for a reason. Brett Gilliland: Right. Chip Caray: …and I, today’s world, everybody gets caught up in the instantaneous results of one off game doesn’t determine how a guy’s gonna play or a pitcher’s gonna pitch, or a team’s gonna perform over the course of 1 62. But, uh, yeah, that was a very good week last week and, uh, good start to the series against the Brewers. Hopefully we can put 20 on ’em tonight. Brett Gilliland: I think what we were, yeah. Say what was it 20 last night? Chip Caray: It was 18. Brett Gilliland: Was 18. Okay. That’s what I thought. I turned… Chip Caray: just increased by 10% every game. You feel really good about your chances. Brett Gilliland: I like it. I like, I like our odds. Chip Caray: Yeah. Brett Gilliland: I like our odds. That’s good. Well, if you can, I always start all my podcast Chip with, you know, kind of what’s made you the man you are today. And, and obviously people know your story and, and know who you are, but I think it’s important to hear it from the horse’s mouth. Right? And so if you could kinda share a little bit of the background story. What’s made you the man you are today? Chip Caray: I guess experience, uh, you know, the old saying it takes a village is really true. I wouldn’t be in professional broadcasting where it not for my dad and my grandfather. I didn’t know Harry very well, uh, didn’t really spend a lot of time with my dad until I was almost in college. My parents were divorced. I remember him leaving when I was a five year old. And, um, you know, he pulled out of the driveway and I said to my mom, where’s dad going? Cuz it was the off season for him. And she said, he’s going on a long road trip. That’s how he, she kinda explains. Uh, they’re split. Uh, my wife obviously, uh, we have four children and she’s had to be mother and father for six, seven months a year for the 27 years we’ve been married. Uh, allowing me to fulfill my dream and go out and talk about baseball and provide for our family, obviously. Uh, she’s certainly a rock. My kids are certainly an inspiration for me. It’s the best thing I ever did is having four children. I have a 25 year old daughter. Identical twin, 23 year old sons who are broadcasters in Amarillo, Texas for the Sod Poodles and a 14 year old as well. So at 58, I’ve been blessed. Uh, but as far as experience goes, um, you know, I learned a lot from my dad and father and what not to be as much as what to be. And I think that’s a really important lesson for anybody. Uh mm-hmm. You know, Harry didn’t really value family, didn’t understand that until much later in his life. Uh, my dad didn’t take care of himself as well as he would have, and in the latter stages of his life that came back to haunt him. Um, but the, you know, the less lessons of life that they taught me. Tell the truth. Be yourself, be honest, and, uh, show up at work every day talking about a game in a sport you love. That’s gonna carry you a long way. And if you’ll pardon the pun, that’s exactly what’s happened. Brett Gilliland: We’ve had a hell of a career, man. I just to name a few, I didn’t know this until I was doing my research, but you were with the Mariners. Uh, but even before that, you were with the Orlando Magic from 89 to 98. I’m trying to think, was that Shaquille O’Neal time? Chip Caray: Yeah. Well that was even before that, or 89 was their expansion year. I was 24 years old. And, uh, to my point earlier about, uh, uh, it takes a village, a man named Bob Neil knew, knew my dad, and knew of me and saw Pat Williams, who was the general manager and the man responsible for getting the expansion team in Orlando. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Chip Caray: And he talked to Pat at the All Star game from Houston, Texas that year, and Pat said, Bob Neil, Hey, we’re looking for an announcer. And Bob said, well, I think Chip Caray would be a perfect choice for you. If Pat said, skip Carey would want to come to our games. And Bob said, no, no, no, no. Not Skip it’s Chip. And Pat, who had worked with my grandfather and knew my dad, said quote, oh God, there’s another one. Uh, so at the age of 24, I was hired as an expansion announcer for the Orlando Magic. Uh, the team won 15 games. I was worse than the team. I had no idea what I was getting into. I kind of did the Bob Costas route when he took the spirits of St. Louis job. He told Rudy Marsy, oh yeah, I’ve done a lot of college. I a lot of college basketball, a lot of pro basketball, have all kinds of experience. I didn’t know sports, basketball, but I had great partners and a great, uh, support staff. And there’s nothing better as a young announcer than starting with the team from the ground up because you grow together. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Chip Caray: And to your point, yeah, they drafted Shaq, they drafted Penny Hardaway, got really, really good. Didn’t win an NBA title, but I had seven great years in Orlando. Met my wife there and, um, you know, Lived there for 20 plus years until we moved, uh, to St. Augustine, Florida, where we live now. And a lot of fond memories of Orlando for us. Brett Gilliland: St. Augustine, I think, is that the oldest town in the country. Chip Caray: Oldest city in America. Don’t let the pilgrims fool you. Uh, our city founded 1565. That was 40 years before, uh, Plymouth Rock and the Pilgrims in Jamestown and all of that stuff. And it truly is a magical place. My wife went to Flagler College there, uh, close. Brief history lesson. Henry Flagler was John Rockefeller’s business partner. He was the railroad guy, and he built a railroad from Jacksonville, Florida all the way to Key West Florida, built it himself. And I think he spent, spent 200 billion in 18 hundreds money, and it was all his, that’s how wealthy he was in the Gilded Age of America. And it’s a, it’s really a fabulous, fabulous place to watch. Brett Gilliland: That’s crazy. Have you watched a, How I Built This. Have you ever seen that on like… Chip Caray: Yep. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, isn’t that amazing? Chip Caray: Yeah, there’s a, there’s a, um, a, a, a great book called Last Train of Paradise that talks about how the, the railroad was built. Uh, Henry Flagler founded the city of Miami. He built the Breakers in Palm Beach by himself. He built the railroad all the way down to Key West of the hotel, Casta Marina. Is, it was his residence down there. And, uh, just the, the, the, the trials and tribulations of what people went through in surviving the hurricanes and all of that. It’s truly a, a wonderful read, but it’s a beautiful park of paradise and that’s probably where they’ll, they’ll plant me in six feet under hopefully three or four years. Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Chip Caray: Really, really fortunate. Blessed to live there for sure. Brett Gilliland: Well, I, uh, I originally, I met you down with Brad Thompson down in Florida there in the booth at Spring training and, uh, It’s funny, I, I stayed at a different hotel, but I was, I went to the Breakers and uh, I actually got online there. I’m like, oh, I’ll stay at the Breakers. You know, it’s a nice little place. I’m close and didn’t realize it was gonna be about 4,000 a night for a normal hotel room. So hopefully that guy’s still getting some residual income off that. Chip Caray: It’s only money. You can’t take it with you. They don’t build a box big enough. But yeah… Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Chip Caray: It’s a remarkable place and it’s a remarkable part of the world. And, um, you know, as, as great as that is, uh, coming back to St. Louis and, uh, rekindling all the friendships and, and familial relationships and revisiting all the places that I haunted as a kid and teenager and col uh, high school student has really been one of the most rewarding parts of this job. And, uh, to be welcomed back so warmly by so many, uh, Mostly because of the works of my dad and grandfather is, uh, really, really a special thing. It’s not lost on. Life’s good. It’s really good. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, it’s great. So tell us a little bit if you can, I mean, how did this go down? I mean, do you get a phone call from somebody and they say… Chip Caray: I did. Brett Gilliland: Hey man, we want you to Yeah. Chip Caray: Yeah. I was under contract in Atlanta and, uh, my, my standard line with that has been fully intended to retire as a member of the, of the Valley family in Atlanta. I’ve been there 20 years and made it very clear that I wanted to stay there. I just got harder and harder to keep trying to stay there. Um, that said, uh, when Dan McLaughlin’s situation arose, and that’s certainly a tragic thing, um, they called and asked if I would have an interest. Mike Claiborne called me and said, Hey, I’m just calling cuz I’m doing some reconnaissance here. And I said, of course, I, I’ll talk to anybody. You know, my, my standard line has truly been, I don’t talk about someone else’s job until they don’t have it anymore. And no one could have planned what happened. Happening. Um, and so as great as this chance has been for me, I wanna be clear, I’m very sad about that on a lot of different, uh, levels with Dan. He’s a friend and, and, and praying for, for his return in recovery. Uh, but that said, they called me, uh, a week or so before Christmas and said, Hey, we’d like to talk to you. Um, obviously Christmas and New Year’s took place. I flew up to St. Louis, I think the second week of January. Came in here on a Friday morning, interviewed with the Cardinals, interviewed with the ballet people. Uh, they said they’d get back to me soon. I think there was another candidate or two that they wanted to talk to. And, uh, Monday morning at 10 o’clock in St. Augustine, while I was on my morning walk, I got a call from, uh, Larry Mago at Valley Midwest who said, Hey, what’s it gonna take for us to bring you to St. Louis? And I said, Well, do you need more interviews? He said, no, no, no. You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. Do you want the job? I said, uh, yeah, I think I do. So that’s, that’s kinda how it took place, uh, a week before Christmas. And then, uh, three weeks later, um, they offered me the position and, uh, and here we are. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So talk about opening day this year. I, I was down there. It was incredible. Um, obviously we don’t need to worry about the end result of the game, but just the day, the pomp and circumstances with that talk, talk to us about that. I mean, being with the Mariners, being with the Cubs, the Braves. I mean, do you witness anything like that anywhere else? Chip Caray: No. Uh, it’s different here, obviously. Um, You know, growing up in St. Louis, I was born and raised here, 1965. Went to Parkway West High School, was born at St. Mary’s Hospital, right over by the old checkered Dome in the old arena. Um, I’d never been to an opening day even as a fan, and I don’t believe that in my years during the Cubs we ever played opening day against the Cardinals. If we did, it’s because the synapses aren’t firing. But I don’t remember it. Uh, my wife flew in, uh, and was asking me what to expect, and all I said to her is, it’s gonna be unlike anything you’ve ever seen. You’re gonna see the Hall of Famers, you’re gonna see the current players come out. You’re gonna see the Clydesdales , and I’m telling you, honey, when you see the Clydesdales, they’re gonna give a standing ovation to the horses. And she said, come on. And I said, just watch. So she was up there filming and she’s putting all that stuff out on Facebook. Even she was completely and totally blown away. And look, when you’re from here, the Cardinals are a civic trust. They’re a civic institution. And the remarkable job the Dewitt family has done in preserving that here is something that can’t go unnoticed. Um, the people that work for the Cardinals understand the role they play in this community. We all who sit in our chairs understand how important the job is. We have a love affair with the team. And for me it was a, a transition that wasn’t easy, but it was made easier because growing up here I understood that. Um, I understood how important, uh, the Cardinals are to civic pride and what they mean to the city and how intensely the fans follow and how much they love their favorite players. And seeing those old guys come around in the convertibles. My guy was Ted Simmons. Uh, I couldn’t help but get a little emotional about watching him switch hit with the long, flowing hair. I wore 23 and Little League because Ted Simmons was my guy. Brett Gilliland: Wow. Chip Caray: And in the Cardinals Hall of Fame and singing him there on opening day was, uh, was obviously one of the highlights for me, and I know for the fans as well. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s just, it really is incredible to watch all those guys that come out and they come back, the, the red jackets, they’re just, they’re amazing. So, um, talk about the grind for you. You know, you, obviously, people see you now and you’ve had all these years, but you know, you weren’t just this guy who was on TV and, and, and Callin’ baseball games. There’s certain part of that, right? You go to high school, you go to college, and then you get on the grind. What was that like? Because, and just to let everybody know too, you have a fourth generation. Starting the grind right now. Right. So you have Harry, you got your dad. You got you. And now your twin boys are, uh, the, the scary Sod Poodles, right? Chip Caray: That’s right. The Sod Poodles down in Amarillo, Texas. Uh, they’re in Frisco, Texas today. Uh, you know, the grind is the grind. I mean, it’s part of the job, you know, it’s like a…. you know, we have a great job and it’s, it’s a different job. We’re enter, we’re into entertainment, right? Our job is to be a conduit between the team and the fans and try to explain what’s going on so that they have a better and fuller understanding of appreciation for what takes place on the field. Um, it is a grind. It’s the hardest grind in sports. It’s 162 games and about a hundred eighty four, a hundred eighty five days. Um, you know, we’re in a stretch now of 17 straight games without a day off. That doesn’t sound like a lot, but when you’re out there trying to perform and do that every day when you factor in the travel and the time zone changes and all of the, uh, media attention that this club gets, that’s, that’s, that’s a big part of it. But I’m one of those old school kind of guys that, um, you know, I, I. It’s what we chose to do. I, I’m a 1 62 guy. You start, uh, your season, uh, April 1st you say goodbye to your family. You give your wife a hug and a kiss, and you say, Hey, I love you, but my, my mistress is calling. I’ve got…[inaudible] and then I’ll come back. Um, I just think that’s part of the ebb and flow of, of how we do it. In fact, my wife and I joke, we haven’t been married 27 years, we’ve been married 27 seasons, and I think that’s kind a look into the, you know, behind the curtain as to how a lot of us think our life is truly a. Um, one that, uh, follows the ebbs and flows of the season. There’s baseball season, then there’s off season. And being able to meld those things and try to make the best of the circumstances, uh, being shall we say imprisoned by the schedule is a real challenge. But you can’t do without a great partner. I’ve got the best one in the world and, uh, I’m grateful that, uh, she’s allowed me to do that. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, so a lot of business leaders listen to this podcast and I think. That, that support system, I mean, touch on that a bit more. I mean, how crucial is that, whether you’re doing what you do, 162 games a year or what I do as a business leader? Like how important is that stuff? Chip Caray: Hugely important. Um, you know, I, I, I’ll, I’ll speak personally. My wife said to me, uh, right before the season started when she saw how, um, relieved I was, for lack of a better way of putting it, to see how, um, excited I was again, re-energized. I was again, she said, you know, I’m really excited about our career for the first time in 20 years. That means a lot, means a lot. Um, you know, because there’s a great deal of guilt that I have, and I’m sure a lot of my colleagues have it too. Again, I have four children. Uh, I’m off covering a baseball team and sting at the Ritz Carlton with the club. And my children are home with the flu and she’s up all night with a sick kid. I can’t, yeah, I can’t. That or the car breaks down or, you know, you’ve got a roof leak. All those things that normal, normal careers allow you to deal with. Yeah, we can’t because I have to be where I want to go. Um, you know, my daughter was born in 1997 in November, and uh, my grandfather passed away. I went to Chicago to work with, uh, the Cubs. And I remember at the front door, they sent a car for me to take me to the airport to go start my job. And I’m bawling, bawling. And my wife said, don’t worry, I’ll bring her to you. There’s a great deal of guilt that I have because, uh, my kids are again in their twenties and 14 and I’ve missed half of their life because we don’t live where I work. And that’s a family decision for married reasons. But I, you know, I haven’t seen any of my kids take their first step. I haven’t seen my kids say their first words in many cases because I’m gone. And it’s not that I want to be, it’s that I have to be to provide. Uh, for my family, the way that I can. So, uh, yes, having that support system at home is, uh, hugely important. There were ups and downs. There were a lot of challenges. Certainly they have to understand that. Again, as I said, I don’t want to go, but I have to. Um, and if you don’t have a, a, a. A supporting partner who understands that to do the job right, they have to take second place sometimes it makes it a real, real challenge. And fortunately for me, over the last decade or so, that hasn’t been the case. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, hats off to her tip of the cap to your wife, cuz that, uh, takes a special person. But let, let’s talk about the, um, You know, again, business side, you got goal planning, you got just different goals you wanna have. Like what, what’s that like for you as a, as an announcer? Because you can’t go out and hit the baseball, you can’t go out and pitch the baseball, but what, what goals do you have? If there is such a thing, what, what does that planning look like for you? And then what, what does a year look like for you? Like what’s a goal for Chip Caray for 2023? Chip Caray: Well, I’ll start with the microeconomics. Part of it is, number one, I think our job is to inform and entertain. Uh, we are on TV for two and a half or three hours a day, and our job is to make sure the fans, as I said, understand what the heck’s going on. Uh, with the ball club, uh, as honestly and as fairly as we possibly can. As you said, there was a stretch of eight games where the cardinals look terrible. There’s no sugarcoating that. And luckily in this town, fans don’t want to be, uh, shall we say, have the bull pull over their eyes if they’re playing bad, say so. In a lot of markets and places where I’ve worked, that’s not always the case. Uh, when they play well, like they are now, I think that honesty. Allows us to be even more excited and more overjoyed because we’ve been honest about when things weren’t going well. Yes, so inform and entertain, first of all. Secondly, be prepared. Uh, you have to prepare yourself physically and mentally that hey, it’s a grind. And get through this week, get through the road trip, get through the first month, the second month, because it truly is a long, long season, as I said, 183 days and 162 games, and that doesn’t count spring training. Or the [inaudible], we all, fingers crossed, hope the Cardinals make, uh, you just have to prepare yourself that you’re going to be gone for a while. I, again, I don’t live in St. Louis year round. My family’s back in Florida, so I have to move all my stuff up. And then when the season’s over and move all my stuff back, and then when I come back home, I have to do the laundry the way my wife was doing it, not the way that I, cause I come in and eventually screw everything up. Uh, it’s just, it’s just a constant adjustment. It’s just a constant, uh, shall we say, um, you know, battle of, you know, being there and being present as much as you can. Thankfully we have technology that allows us to do that. But understanding that, uh, you know, the job is what the job is. And this is unfortunately part of it. You can’t be there full time. Brett Gilliland: Well, and for you, it’s tough. I would assume. I’ve talked to other guys about this, you gotta be on, right. Even if you got the sniffles or you’re not feeling well or whatever. Chip Caray: Yeah. Yep. Brett Gilliland: People don’t care. Right. They gotta hear you and they wanna hear your enthusiasm. Chip Caray: Well, it’s like a, it’s like a player in the, in a major league game. If they’ve got a hamstring pull and they’re in the lineup, but they’re good enough to play or good enough to be in the lineup, they’re good enough to play. Right. And a lot of that stuff is kept from strategic reasons, which I understand. Uh, but yeah, I’ve done games with strep throat, I’ve done games with pneumonia. I’ve done games with a horrible cough. Uh, I’ve done games where, um, you know, I, I think I had food poisoning a couple of times, but yeah, that’s the job. And if we don’t work, we don’t get paid. So there’s obviously a financial incentive. Yeah, sorry. Power your way through those things. Um, but that’s just the nature of the job. You know, you, you find a way to power through. You find a way to, to get it done, and. If at the end of the day it’s three hours that you’re not a hundred percent, just give whatever your a hundred percent is that day. And I think people respect that. Brett Gilliland: Let’s talk about the pitch clock. How, uh, how, how big of a game changer was this? Chip Caray: Huge. I think it’s the biggest thing that we’ve seen in the game since they lowered the mound after 1968. Uh, baseball’s basically just trimmed a lot of the fat out of the game. The, the scratching and spitting and walkup music and all the silliness that, uh, all of us who love the game allowed to invade the sport. It’s gone. We had a two hour and 30 minute game last night. Uh, selfishly I get paid the same if it’s an hour game or a five hour game. So I’m all for the, uh, you know, two and a half hour, uh, affairs. Brett Gilliland: But on a 19 run game, right? I mean, think about that. Yeah. Chip Caray: Yeah. That’s the other part of it. I mean, we’re seeing, we’re still seeing good baseball. We’re, I mean, yeah, there’s a lot of strikeouts still, but by and large, the game itself hasn’t changed. We’ve just gotten a rid of a lot of the garbage that caused people to look at their cell phones instead of looking at the field. And I think if you notice the center field camera, People don’t watching their phones, they’re paying attention to the game. And I think that’s response resonated very well with fans. So I applaud baseball for trying this, and I applaud players too for uh, uh, by and large not having any problems with it. Brett Gilliland: So for those Cardinals fans, that’re listening, they’re like, yeah, they’re kind of, you know, Cardinal fans get mad pretty quickly, but they also rebound pretty quickly in, in my opinion, living here for 22 years. Talk to us though about the importance of the World Baseball Classic, uh, the pitch clock, you know, a new catcher, all those things. How did that play into that first, you know, month of baseball That really wasn’t good Cardinal baseball? Do you think there’s a, do you think there’s a thing there? Chip Caray: Maybe? I think there’s, you know, there’s a lot of newness here. New coaching staff, a lot of new coaches. Uh, new catcher, obviously that’s a hugely important position for 20 years fans in St. Louis. The pitching staff especially, never had to shake off guy here, Molina. Right. You know, he’s throw a fastball, I’m throwing a fast ball. So there’s a learning curve there. Uh, you know, uh, miles, Michaels and Hennes Cabrera and Gallegos and Wayne Wright weren’t here. Uh, they were off with their WBC teams. That slowed the learning curve, as it were. But I think, uh, and I say dis respectfully, and the Cardinal fans have been spoiled in a great way. I mean, it, whole generation of generat, 15 year olds that have never seen this team have a losing years. So this was a shock to the system, the way that they played. It certainly shocked me. It shocked the players as well. But I love what Ali said. Ali Marmel said, uh, look, we put ourselves in this hole. It’s our job to dig ourselves out of it. And I think the Cardinals feel confident that they can do that. There’s six and a half games. There’s six, I think six and a half games outta first place, despite being eight or nine games under 500. Don’t look at the record. Look at where you are on the standings. I think this club is certainly capable of rattling off. I’ll run like we’re on now more than once in getting back to the top of the division where I think if you look at the talent level, Cardinals do have the best team now it’s up to them to show it. Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah, it’s funny, it must have put something on TikTok about that 16 or 17 year old. My 17 year old said, dad, did you know this is the worst St. Louis Cardinal team in my lifetime so far. Yeah. Well it’s crazy. We’ve been very lucky. Yes, exactly. Chip Caray: It’s, there were some lean years in Chicago, but uh, you know, that’s part of it. It it truly is character building. And, uh, you know, Mike Claiborne has said he doesn’t start to worry about or think about what the team is or isn’t until flag day. That’s the second week in June. That’s a little late flag, but usually it’s the 54 game mark. A third of the way through the season, you really, really have your fingers on the pulse of what your team is and isn’t. And that’s when the discussion start, not just with your club, but the other club’s about mixing and matching and making moves to, to improve your fortunes. And I’m confident the Cardinals are gonna do that. Brett Gilliland: Talk to us about a typical No, go ahead. Chip Caray: I gotta put some power on my iPad. Hang on a second. Brett Gilliland: All right, sounds good. All right. Chip Caray: I feel like Kip from Napoleon Dynamite Technology. Okay. Plug that bad boy in. Sorry about that. Brett Gilliland: No, you’re good. Not a problem at all. Chip Caray: Okay. We got power again. Sorry. Brett Gilliland: All right. Um, so next question. What was my next question? Was, uh oh, A typical day. What’s a typical day like for, uh, people like you in, in your job? Chip Caray: Yeah. At home I get up, uh, obviously I get up early, get coffee, uh, check out all the newspapers, all the websites, read the opposing teams newspaper, read our newspapers, get the clips. Read through those. Uh, try to watch the MLB network, look at the highlights, if there’s anything spectacular that comes on. We have a, uh, a great statistician named Dan Hyatt who sends us some really cool and obscure stuff that’s much more interesting to me than just, Hey, he’s got two home runs or a five game hitting streak, and how to incorporate that stuff. Um, really what it is, is, as you said earlier, it’s kind of like cramming for a test. Uh, you have all this study material and we get a ream of notes about that thick every single day. I mean, it’s hundreds of pages of. Of statistical information that I, you, you can’t get through it all. And I think our job went through that and pick out the nugget or two that we will probably talk about. The great thing about our job is that nobody at home will know what we wanted to get to and didn’t, uh, because you’ve got three games or four games to, to try to get that stuff in. Um, but then, then you go do the game and ultimately the game is gonna dictate what you talk about. Uh, we do our, we do our, uh, open, we have a production meeting in the booth about three 30 or four o’clock after we talk to the manager and try to formulate some ideas of things we want to talk about during the game and what we talk about and our, our, our standup, which is kind of our theme for what we hope to see or what we’re predicting might happen game. But obviously if it doesn’t happen, we’re not wrong. We talk about why it didn’t happen. Uh, last night or the gate, first game against the Brewers is a perfect example. How would Contreras and Flaherty work? That was our subject matter. It was great. Uh, would Aaron auto keep hitting? He did. Uh, heck, the whole team, uh, uh, started hitting again. So it did, uh, that, that’s kind of game that sort of does the impossible it makes us look really, really smart. But, uh, that’s, that’s kind of, that’s kind of what we do. The game ends come back and, uh, try to unwind and watch the highlights and look at the other games on the West Coast, and then go to bed and do it again. And I think that’s, that’s, that’s really the, the, the, the lesson I would say is it, We’re, we try to be boring pros. Routine is really important to all of us. We have our own routines. We do it the same way every single day because to vere from that routine is really uncomfortable and leads to problems because, um, you know, we’re, we’re truly type A driven, um, uh, keep it simple, stupid, boring pros and, uh, uh, that’s I think what makes the guys at sit these chairs really successful, at least in my family. Brett Gilliland: Well, I think, again, to keep tying it back to business, but I talk about consistently boring, and then I talk about preparation, you know, and, and that’s what I’m hearing from you, right? Be consistently boring. Yeah. And be prepared. Right? I got this much stuff and Chip Caray: Right. Yeah. And, and by, by boring I don’t mean you just drone on ball. No, we’re, we’re excited. We’re fans when they play bad. I think you’ve heard that in my voice in some of these games. There goes another home run, like, oh, you know, crap, here we go again. Or if a guy has a big night, you know, we, we get excited, but it’s knowing what to say and when to say it. Uh, yeah. And what more importantly on tv, what not to say we’re all guilty of talking way too much. I know I am. Uh, but it’s just the nature of the excitement of the job and loving to talk about our sport. But you’re right, uh, you’re boring in your preparation. Hopefully you’re not boring in your presentation, and at least you walk in prepared for any eventuality because cameras break, audio goes out, guys get hurt. You know, hail storms hit all kinds of crazy stuff. You just have to expect the unexpected and be prepared for that. Yeah. And uh, hold on, hold on for the roller coaster ride and see it takes you. Brett Gilliland: How good is Brad Thompson? Chip Caray: Awesome. Great. Funny, wonderfully witty, quick dry wit. Uh, eminently prepared. I’m really happy for him. He’s so excited about this opportunity to do more games. Um, yeah, and Jim, I’m have been awesome partners. They’re both great friends. I’m really lucky that wherever I’ve worked, I’ve had phenomenal teammates and I think the thing that characterized my experience in Atlanta was, um, these aren’t my coworkers. These are my family. Uh, we actually spend more time with our broadcast booth and we do our, our children and our, our spouses. And if you don’t have that good relationship, it’s, it makes for a long, long year. And not just on the TV side. Ricky Horton, John Rooney, Mike Claiborne, Jim Jackson on the radio side is an incredibly welcoming and we do stuff together on the road. We go to dinner, we’d go. Walks. I mean, uh, it really has been seamless from that standpoint. And so having that kind of a support system for all of us, not just them for me, but me to them, I think has been one of the best parts of the first six weeks of the season. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Again, business wise, right? The team, the team matters. Who you surround yourself with matters. And if you’re surrounded by some bums, you’re gonna be a bum, right? But you’re around Great guys. Chip Caray: Try to soar with the Eagles. Right? Brett Gilliland: Right. Exactly. Chip Caray: Even I don’t, I don’t, I think part of my job is I try to make people better and I hope they make me better too. Um, you know, we all have accountability partners in our, in our, in our jobs. And if I, if I screw something up, I’m not too proud to say, Hey, I messed that up. I did that last night. I, I got Jack Flaherty strikeout, uh, season high strikeout thing, thing wrong. I said, eight was a season high. It would’ve been eight walks. Uh, I said, excuse me, that’s wrong. Theirs his nine, that’s his career high. Pride is a pride’s a dangerous thing, right? And it’s okay to make mistakes when you don’t correct them. As I found out personally and professionally, that leads to most of the problems. So if you make a mistake, admit it, move on. People will, I think, appreciate the fact that, uh, you at least were prepared enough to know that and man enough to admit it. Brett Gilliland: So you’ve had the front row for amazing, uh, sports moments in your career. So name, can you talk through some of those favorite ones that, uh, stick out the most for you? Chip Caray: Well, the one that, that jumps out first, I, I’m sorry, Cardinal’s fans is Carrie Woods’s 20 Strikeout game. Uh, that was like, six weeks into my major league career with the Cubs. Brett Gilliland: Wow. Chip Caray: Uh, all Harry Carey, uh, in his booth with his partner, his crew, his city, all that stuff, and he strikes out 20 Astros. That was, that was certainly his coming out party as a, uh, Cubs player. He is an announcer in a big market. People were like, wow, this guy has a pretty good idea of what he’s doing. And that was, that was, uh, that was a big moment. Um, you know, for me, for people who follow baseball and like Bill James games score, um, he’s, he has postulated that that is the most dominant pitching performance in the history of Major League Baseball. And for me it was like my 30th game with Cubs. So. Brett Gilliland: Wow. Chip Caray: That was, that was really cool. Uh, my first NBA game, obviously at 24 years old, I was the youngest guy in the league and, uh, we were doing an exhibition game against the Detroit Pistons, the Bad Boys, and Lamber and Dumars and Rotman. Oh yeah. All those guys. Uh, to do that at 24 and, and begin my, um, you know, my, my climb up the ladder was, was great. Um, doing a game with my dad and grandfather in Wrigley Field in Chicago 32 years ago, almost, uh, to the day. Uh, something that I’ll never forget, may not happen again. And now watching my boys grow and flourish and start their way in this crazy business is really, really exciting. And they’re super talented and it’s only gonna be a matter of time, I think, before someone gives them a chance at their young age like they gave me. And, you know, when that happens, uh, for them and for my 14 year old. Um, you know, I, he wants to do it too, so, uh, we’re tougher to kill in Covid, man. You can’t get rid of it. Uh, but I’m really, really proud of all of those things and as I said, you know, my marriage to my wife and, and her family and the support system I’ve been received, I’m really a humble person. Brett Gilliland: I love it. Last, last couple questions here is, I know you gotta get rolling into the stadium. So, um, when you, when you see these players, like in Anato or Carrie Wood, in the 98 season, we got 20 strikeouts. These, these players are at this next level, right? These MVP type players. Do you, do you notice something different in them when you’re, cuz you, you get to rub elbows with them all day, every day. Like what, what do you see that’s different from people like that than maybe just your normal guy on the team? Chip Caray: Drive. Consistency. Expectation of excellence. Uh, they hold themselves to an incredibly high standard. Uh, they’re accountable. Uh, you know, the guys that are really, really good in the game are the ones who, if they have a good day, they deflect the praise to others. If they have a really, if they have a bad day or the team moves as they say, they find a way to say, well, if I had been better, we would’ve been better. Uh, that’s the essence of leadership. I think for me. Um, you know, we’re the, we’re the face on TV of hundreds of people. Who, if they don’t do their job well, we can’t possibly look good. And as I said before, sometimes things happen that are out of your control. It’s our job to cover for that. And, and hopely, the audience doesn’t notice it. The same with superstar players. You know, they’re the guys that, that are paid for a reason. They’re the guys that are the faces of their club, but they’re also the guys that are the first to invent Erdos. Perfect example of that for the Cardinals, the first six weeks of the season, he said, I’m not playing well and until I do, this is gonna be a struggle for all of us. And I know I’m not right, but I’m gonna get there. And fortunately for us, uh, who follow baseball, there’s a thing called a bubblegum card. And on the back there are a whole bunch of statistics that give you hope that these guys are going to be within five, 10% of those numbers by the end of the year. That’s why they’re stars. They’re consistent, they’re accountable, they deflect praise, they accept the criticism, and they hold themselves to a very high standard and try to surpass it each and every day. They get here and they try to beat it. And beat it again and beat it again the next day. That’s what makes him great. Brett Gilliland: Phenomenal. So, final question here for you is, um, if you could go back and tell the 40 year old chip Carey, give him, give that guy some advice, what advice would you have for you? Chip Caray: Wow. Uh, what advice would I have? I would say enjoy the ride. More. Um, I think I, I like all of us in this business. We’re so in such a hurry to get to where we want to go, that we don’t enjoy the highs and lows that that naturally take place. You know, it’s the old saying, process over outcome. Uh, that comes with maturity. And I, that’s, that’s still a struggle for me. It’s a struggle for my son because they want to get to the major leagues and I, I tell them all the time, Hey, enjoy the joy. Stupid stuff that happens in AA because those will be the funny things you talk about when you’re Correct. Cause it’s the shared experience, right? Um, but the 40 year old, I think I would, um, I would enjoy. Um, I would enjoy seeing my kids be more. I would enjoy, you know, being around my family more. I wouldn’t obsess and worry about things as much. Uh, some of that was the environment from which I came that made that difficult to do. But, you know, the old saying, stop and smell the roses is really, really one that’s worth repeating because at the end of the day, I’d rather be remembered as a good husband and father and a great friend than it would be for a guy that said Ball two as well as anybody else in the business. That’s the stuff that really matters and I’ve learned that my grandfather never did. My dad did certainly, but wasn’t in a position to do it. And I hope that I can do a better job than the two of them and passing that along to the rest of my family. And as I said, the patience of job that my wife has and Susan is the reason why. Uh, I think as I’ve gotten older, I’ve learned to appreciate those things a whole lot more, a baseball game. Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. Well, thanks so much for being with us, man. It’s been awesome having you on the Circuit of success. Hang with me here when I hit end, but uh, it’s been great having you Chip. Chip Caray: My pleasure, anytime. We’ll see you soon.

Elle Nelson is a Mental Performance Specialist and former soccer player. Elle has turned her professional athletic career to helping individuals and teams harness the power of their minds for success. In addition to running her consultancy, Rise Over Run, LLC, Elle works with corporate clients through Limitless Minds. Brett and Elle get personal with conversations about their own practices for self-growth, and Elle leaves listeners with a challenge. Join us as she shares her experiences in personal growth, balancing priorities, and communication in parent-athlete relationships and personal settings. [Powerpress] https://youtu.be/HFkQDxHDDhQ Brett Gilliland: All right. Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got Elle Nelson with me. Elle, how you doing? Elle Nelson: Hi there, Brett. Good, thank you. How are you doing?  Brett Gilliland: I’m doing great. I’m excited to have you today. We’re gonna talk, um, for those listening and, and watching, uh, we’re gonna have 50% of this is gonna be about us as parents. Uh, raising children with sports. Elle was a, uh, dual college athlete. You’ve played golf, uh, I believe in France, in England and the United States, uh, at a, at a very high level. Um, you, you know, you’ve done the college thing, so I want to talk parenting slash sports, and then I also want to talk business, mindset, culture, all that type of stuff. Sound good? Elle Nelson: Absolutely looking forward to it.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, you are with, uh, IMG. So that’s, uh, anybody in the sports world probably knows who IMG is Down in, I believe in, was it Bradenton, Florida? And, uh, and then, uh, Limitless Minds is another company that you, uh, that you work with and you also have your own, uh, consulting company. So you are busy and, uh, we’ll dive into all that work that you’re doing. But I’d love to kind of just pick your brain a little bit on what’s made you the woman you are today. Uh, to wake up and get to, you know, kinda work for three different companies and run your own deal.  Elle Nelson: Yeah, absolutely. Good question. Diving straight into it. So what’s made me the woman I am today, I, I mean, I think a lot of that, of course we could start early on, like with my parents, we, we won’t go into all of that detail, but I think I had parents who instilled pretty strong values in me from a young age, right? It’s like if you start something, you’re gonna finish it. You’re gonna give it all you’ve got. Um, Whole heart, whole head in the game. And uh, my dad came from a pretty heavy sporting background. He played hockey in college and up in Canada. So sport was something that I was involved in from a really young age. And then I ended up getting into, um, you may have said golf, but it was actually soccer. Brett Gilliland: Oh, did I say golf? I’m sorry. I, I play golf, so. Elle Nelson: No, it’s totally fine. I figured that was the case. Uh, yeah. But I was like, oh, I’m pretty sure he knows that. But it’s fine. Uh, so soccer was my main sport and I got into that from a pretty young age. I ended up doing the club thing, high school thing, traveling. Uh, and then to be honest, I think like big picture answer, a lot of my mess up, a lot of my obstacles adversity that’s made me who I am today more than anything else. Yeah. Uh, I, I ended up like getting into quite a lot of trouble when I was in high school. I was a pretty bad kid for a while. I think my mom even threatened to like put me into a group home. At one point I ended up quitting soccer for a year, my junior year. And when I did that, I was also in a car accident. So I was just getting into a lot of trouble and. After that year, I realized what I actually wanted and I started doing it for myself. So I realized before that point, I was doing it for my parents. I was doing it for other people to please them, and that for me, even today, I see that it’s like a really big turning point. Where I started making my own decisions, uh, doing it with good intention, knowing that even the tough decisions and the decisions that scared me, like going away for college and playing soccer in college, I had a lot of doubt in myself, but I knew that I wouldn’t regret it, that I would grow from it regardless of how it went. So from that point forward, I started making the hard decisions, um, becoming more resilient and choosing to go for what I wanted and doing it for the right reasons.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And how do you think that you, you chose that? I mean, it, it’s hard as a kid, right? I think you said your junior year, so you’re, you know, clocking in at 17 ish years old and, and to make that decision to say, I’m doing this for myself now. What was it, what was that, maybe that light switch moment, that aha moment that made you think that?  Elle Nelson: I think for me, it, it, part of me felt like at that age, I hit rock bottom in some sense. Um, like I, I had gotten in a car accident where I was drinking and I was just making poor decisions and acting out, and I didn’t quite know why. Uh, so when I got to this point where I was like, who cares? I’m not playing soccer anymore. I’m not doing anything for anyone. I don’t know if I wanna, you know, stay in school. It felt like I had nothing to lose. And so when I got to that point, it felt like, Any decision I made, what’s the worst that could happen? I’ve already figured out what happens when I don’t have any of it, and that’s when I said, well, what is it that I actually want? Like, what, what is it that I want? Where do I wanna take things? And, and for me, that was the turning point where I chose soccer. I committed to school, and seeing where I could take both of those things, but I, I kind of needed that. Because it made me do it for me and not for anybody else.  Brett Gilliland: So what would, what message would you have for that 17 year old, you know, Elle now, or that 17 year old girl or boy listenin’ to this, or their parents are listenin’ to this? What, what message would you have for them to not have to go through what you went through or your parents went through with that? Elle Nelson: Yeah, I, so, I mean, I, I won’t give advice to my younger self cuz to be honest, I don’t think my younger self would’ve even accepted it at that time.  Brett Gilliland: She might, whatever, buzz off. Elle Nelson: If I could have tried.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Elle Nelson: If I could have tried, uh, or talking to parents and to younger athletes now, I would say to, um, You know, have open conversation and explore ideas. Uh, I think sometimes, like when I work with younger athletes and I ask them, okay, why is it that you do this? Why is it that you play your sport? A lot of times the first answer is, well, I don’t know cause that’s what I do. And so we spend some time exploring that. Like, what is it that you like about it? Does it bring you joy? Are you doing it for social reasons? Where do you wanna take it? And then having that conversation with parents as well, because sometimes there’s a misalignment of goals. And I think for me, um, and it’s not just about sport, right? This could be academics, this could be life. You know, what is it that you want out of your life? Why do you do the things that you do? Sometimes with my parents, they wanted me to play sport for different reasons than I wanted to play sport. Um, they wanted a certain career path for me that was different than what I wanted for myself, but we never really had that open conversation. So there was just like some tension that existed because we just assumed that we were on the same page and we didn’t have that open communication around what both of us wanted and how my parents could support me in that, how I could be understanding and kind of compromise some of the things that they wanted for me. I think that conversation wasn’t really happening at that age, and I’m sure a lot of that was due to me not really wanting to have those conversations or realizing that that would be helpful. But I would encourage that from a really, really young age cuz it can just help with support and kinda navigating the changes that are happening at a young age.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. How, how did you, like, how did your parents handle you? Cause obviously you were, uh, successful at your sport and, and you did take a year off and, and, um, and all that stuff. But how did they handle, like, what did they do well, and if you’re open to it, maybe is there anything that they maybe didn’t do well that as a parent and people listen to this, they’re all parents with kids, what we could do on the, on the good and the bad side to help our child, uh, succeed in what they want to do. Elle Nelson: Yeah, good question. I think, um, at, at first I would probably say that my, my parents took like the helicopter approach for a while. I don’t know if you’ve heard that term, like the helicopter parent, where they were, you know, I was the first born child, so I was the one they were cautious with. There were a lot of restrictions. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah.  Elle Nelson: They wanted to make sure they did all the right things and so they monitored every little thing that I did to the point where I think I felt like I didn’t have, um, I didn’t feel independent. I didn’t feel like I was making my own choices. And so I started to rebel. And I think part of that you can probably see in my career path now, like I, I like to choose what I do. I like to do multiple things. Um, and so when they were telling me what to do and kind of trying to restrict me a lot of the time, uh, not that the, the rules were bad. I think that they were just constantly like, okay, who are you going with? Where are you going? How long are you gonna be there? Uh, let me talk to their parents. I think there weren’t very many opportunities for trust or letting me make the decisions and kind of live with the consequences.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Elle Nelson: And I could have used that a little bit more. So I think it got to the point where they realized that that wasn’t working. Like they were suffering and I was suffering. And so then they kind of took the opposite approach and they were like, do you know what? Hands off. So when I quit soccer, they were like, Bad decision, don’t agree with it. But instead of saying, no, you’re gonna tough it out, you’re sticking with it, go back in, finish that. They were like, okay, that’s fine. Brett Gilliland: You do you.  Elle Nelson: It’s good. Yeah. And so they backed off. And when they backed off, I started to realize, oh, okay, actually. I am grateful that they were supporting me, but maybe that support could look a little different. And then as I got older, you know, like going into my senior year when I started playing soccer again, we had more conversations around what that support could look like and how we both could compromise on things and they can feel respected with the rules they enforced. But I also felt like I could earn some trust and have some autonomy. So I would say, um, That one of the best things that they did and that I did, was having those conversations around what that navigation could look like, what that support, what that trust, um, and autonomy could look like.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah… Elle Nelson: Because… Brett Gilliland: I think that’s huge. I mean, Go ahead.  Elle Nelson: Oh, go ahead, go ahead.  Brett Gilliland: Well, I was just gonna say, I think, and again, I, you know, I have four boys and so, you know, you certainly wanna, uh, protect them and, and guide them, but you also wanna let them kind of fly the fly away, right. And, and hopefully come back and, and, uh, but it’s scary as a parent, as, you know, with a kid driving and all that stuff. And my 17 year old, uh, you know, ironically is my oldest first born. And so, uh, I’m, I’m, I’m exactly where you were at with your parents and my son plays soccer and. And so it’s, it’s great and all, but it’s like, it’s one of those things too, like I took the approach my parents did. So you couldn’t, as a child, you couldn’t get me off the golf course. I mean, it was sun up, sun down. Um, you know, I would, I would miss social stuff until it was like dark where I literally couldn’t see the golf ball. I mean, it’s all I wanted to do. Me and a couple of my buddies, Derek and Blake and these guys, we would just play all day long and, and, but my parents never forced me to do it.  Right? They never forced me to do that. And so I’ve kind of taken that same approach with my kids. But then there’s also the times where I regret, personally for me, I didn’t challenge myself more. I think I could have done more with golf, but I didn’t have a challenge, uh, to myself or from others that made me want to go to that next level. So I’ve struggled with that. Right? Is how do you hold our kids accountable? How do you be there? How do you support ’em? To go to that next level if they want to go to the next level. But how do we challenge the heck out of ’em in a respectful, loving, kind way?  Elle Nelson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: Your thoughts on. Elle Nelson: I think you bring up a, I think you bring up a really good point and I, I wanna like, I should have thrown this in early on as a disclaimer, and this is something I say with both parents and young athletes that I work with, is like, there’s no one right way. It’s not like a black and white type of relationship. Relationships never are. It’s very gray, and I think that’s the most beautiful part of the process. Um, um, Remind me. Okay, hold on. Sorry. Remind me the last part of what you said. Cause I, so just like… Brett Gilliland: How do we challenge our kids, right? How do we challenge our kids enough but you not be over the top, but yet like, you know, like to even take my fourth boy for example, you know, I’ve got, I’ve got a junior, I’ve got a freshman seventh grade in, in third grade. So no matter what, right? But pick any of ’em. How do you challenge that person if they want to do it? Bet. I’m a big believer in that if they wanna do it, this is their passion. I’m never gonna say, I’m not the dad that’s like, you’re gonna go do golf and you know, my first two don’t really even, they like it, but they don’t really care. I would love to have a golfer, but I’m not gonna push that, right? So how do we push our children to do what they love, to get to the level of, whether it’s D one or D three, whatever they want to go, or professionally, how do we do that?  Elle Nelson: Yeah. So, uh, two things come to mind. I think one thing is setting the example yourself. Uh, so how do you demonstrate that that’s what you do on a daily basis? You know, is it something around being active and signing up for a marathon or a 5K and showing them that you’re putting in the work you’ve committed to something and you’re gonna follow it through and it shows up and it’s reflected in your behaviors and your choices day to day. Uh, you know, being open and, and honest and vulnerable to the extent that you feel comfortable of like, Hey, this is the job, this is the career that I have, and my kids get to watch me. I, I think of it like if I were to have kids, I’m working from home, so they would kind of see me do what I do and see that I’m working hard every day. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Elle Nelson: See that I’m passionate and that when you’re passionate about something, it doesn’t mean that it’s always easy and that the hard parts are where you can grow the most and they can see me work through that. They can maybe hear me talk about it. It’s not complaining, right? It’s not focusing on the problem, it’s focusing on the solutions, and they can actually hear the way I talk about what I’m going through and how I’m going to overcome it, how I’m going to stay committed to what I’m, you know, working on or passionate about what my career path is. So it’s kind of living that out. I think that’s one of the most important things or the best things you could do.  Brett Gilliland: So lead by example?  Elle Nelson: Yeah, lead by example. Would agree? Disagree? Disagree. Any thoughts on that?  Brett Gilliland: Oh, I would a hundred percent agree. I mean, I think it’s, um, it’s, yeah, it’s critically important for that. And, and I, I’m very open with my kids and, and, you know, work and, you know, I don’t get into details, right, and names and all that kind of stuff, but like, hey, I struggle with something today and, but here’s what we did and here was a solution and I’m a big journal guy and here’s what I did in my mind, you know, we can have a pity party and cry about it all day, or I can go to my journal and I can work my way out of this. Whatever that problem is, to your point of what’s the solution? Yeah. Don’t, let’s not just Right. Keep adding fertilizer and water to the problem. It’s like, hey, there’s a problem. It’s how we deal with it now. Mm-hmm. Let’s go in my way of journal our way out of it and put a game plan together. And I think it’s important for them to see that. Elle Nelson: Yeah, complete because it, it transfers over to like, if I were to come home from work and I’m like, oh, you know, John and Susie were so terrible and this is so hard. I didn’t talk to ’em about it, but I’m just venting cuz I’m frustrated when I’m home. Right? And I don’t like this, and oh, I’ve gotta go to work today. Your kids are gonna see that. But then we can’t blame them when they’re like, oh, I don’t wanna go to practice. It’s gonna be so hard. We’re gonna run. I didn’t like that. The coach should play me. Right? Like, we are modeling the behaviors. And so if they reflect those, we can’t really be mad at them because, we we’re doing the same thing. So lead by example is number one. I think two would be like, what is success? What is success? What is it that they want to achieve? Because success can look very different. But then beyond that, and I think this really transfers into the corporate space as well It’s like, what are our values? What is success? But then we have to dive deeper than that. It’s what are the behaviors that are gonna reflect it day to day? So if they say, you know, I wanna play D one. Okay, well what is it that you need to do? What is it that if you do consistently on a daily basis, it’s going to help you achieve that? It’s going to help you find this process. We know this process isn’t gonna be easy, but that’s where like the good stuff is. Yeah, like that’s where we grow. It’s not just the outcome. I think our society especially, we’re so focused on the outcome and if I get here, I’m gonna be happy. And if this happens then I’ll enjoy it. Or all I wanna do is win this national championship. Well then all these coaches that win the national championship, they get there and it, it doesn’t take long for someone to ask, okay, same thing next year. Right Now, all of a sudden they didn’t really get to enjoy it that much. It’s already back to the grind. So if you don’t like the grind, You’re gonna make yourself miserable eventually.  Brett Gilliland: So that’s so funny you say that. It’s like, I find that I love the grind, I love the journey, and I, I actually, for me, I do better when there’s more chaos than when there’s not chaos. Right? Yeah. It’s, I don’t know, it’s, it’s kind of weird, but it, uh, when what, when you said that you gotta enjoy the grind, it’s true. Like I, I’ve enjoyed the last. Eight years, nine years of building a business and being on the grind. Right. It’s, it’s a lot of fun. But, but again, to your point is you gotta, you gotta want that. Right. And, and another thing we were talking about too is I think it’s important that my wife and I, we’re not the family. It’s like, oh, it’s, you know, here it is. Sunday night we got, oh, the old Mondays. Thank God it’s Friday. Versus thank God it’s Monday. And it’s like, no, let’s ha I mean, every day is the same for us. Right. But, but you gotta find passion in what you do. And if it’s, whether it’s your kids. The kid playing soccer or the parent at work. I mean, if you’re not loving what you’re doing, man, you need to make a change, you know?  Elle Nelson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Completely agree. Um, my favorite day of the week is, is Monday. I’m gonna be honest. And it’s, it’s not because Monday’s the, the easiest day of the week. It’s cuz I love what I do and I’m excited to show up. I’m excited to build momentum for the week ahead because I’ve trained my brain to think that way. The process really is the best part. Um, And I, I think it’s like that, are we focused on the outcome? Are we focused on just, you know, winning the game or are we focused on achieving mastery and what we’re doing on a daily basis? Because if we can focus on achieving mastery, the outcome takes care of itself.  Brett Gilliland: That’s right. And I always say clarity proceeds mastery. Right? So the clear, to your point earlier, do you wanna play division one? Do you want to play professionally? And I can’t remember who it was, but somebody was saying maybe it was Bryce Harper or somebody, you know, plays for the Phillies and the major League baseball. And he was like, So many people said they wanna just make it to the major leagues right now once you get there, it’s the hardest thing about being in the major leagues on any professional athlete is staying there. Right. It’s not getting there. I mean, it’s hard to get there, of course, but staying there. Mm-hmm. From guys I’ve talked to, but it’s like his goal is to be a Hall of famer. Well, getting there versus being a Hall of Famer, that’s two different things. My work ethic must be different. My choices, my food intake, my exercise. Everything’s different if you’re trying to build a hall, a hall of fame career. And that’s that clarity I think that we all need per personally, professionally, uh, as a kid and as an adult, right?  Elle Nelson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Completely agree. Yeah. So what part of, um, go ahead. Oh no, I was just gonna say, part of that I think is getting clear on, on your values too, cuz that’s going to dictate and drive the direction you wanna go. That’s, that’s a whole nother conversation. But what were you gonna say?  Brett Gilliland: That’s another podcast, right? So, um, let’s talk about your webinar since we’re on this the Kid thing and, and I think this is important. So you, you have a April 6th. You have a webinar, which it’s $10 a person. So this is, this is not a barrier of entry problem here, right? Um, but this is called College Ready. It’s for parents, it’s for kids, it’s for coaches. So talk to us about this webinar and what it’s gonna do and what people can get out of it.  Elle Nelson: Yeah, absolutely. So it’s April 6th, five to 7:00 PM Pacific time. Uh, and that is going to be trying to provide as well rounded of an insight as we can into what preparing and going into college looks like. So it’s gonna have college coaches, strength and conditioning coach. Uh, I’m gonna be on there as well. From the mental performance sports psychology side. We’ve got, uh, a youth international coach, a sport recruiting company, so we’re trying to cover all angles. Uh, and then we’ve got two coaches, division one and division three. So we’re trying to provide insight into eligibility, what college coaches are looking for when it comes to film, how you can stand out to college coaches, uh, how you need to prepare your body to reduce the risk of injury, and go in ready to play. What type of mental attributes do you need? What are the differences between college divisions? It’s gonna have a live q and a Wow. So that way you can get all your questions answered in one place. Uh, so that’s really the goal of it, is to… Brett Gilliland: I love that. Elle Nelson: …and make sure it’s cost efficient. Everybody has access to it.  Brett Gilliland: And where do we find that? What, uh, where do we go? Assuming there’s a website we can sign up. Elle Nelson: Yeah, so linktree.com/sportspsychology. If you type that, you’ll see a link to register. And then you can also, um, find that link on my Instagram, which is the @signriseover.run.  Brett Gilliland: Perfect. We will put all that in the show notes too, Ellie, so everybody has an access, uh, easy link to get to that. So that’s awesome. That sounds like an amazing event. And, uh, I think I know what I’m doing from seven to nine Central time on April 6th. I already see where I’m gonna set my house. I’m gonna watch it. We’re gonna have some fun. We’re gonna learn. And, uh, so you mentioned recovery. So this is, we’re gonna bleed into now, into the, uh, into the culture and the mindset and the business side of this, uh, this podcast. But this goes, this is kind of a way that can help both. So what do we do for recovery, um, to help our bodies? So if we’re an athlete, as a child, Me, a 45 year old guy that likes to work out is a little sore today. I did legs yesterday, so I’m a little sore. Uh, what can we do to, uh, recover and, and feel better? Elle Nelson: What can we do to recover and feel better from a physical standpoint?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Elle Nelson: Oh, okay. Let, let’s take it back to my college days. Um, so I, I mean, day after something tough, I would say, Like, we’ve got all these new things now with the, uh, thera Gun rolling out. Movement is medicine, right?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Elle Nelson: Like lighter, longer movement, whether it’s a walk, whether it’s a bike ride, get some type of movement in mobility work, flexibility work, especially if we’re tired and sore. So any sort of post-game day for me would look like that. Brett Gilliland: I’ve been writing this stuff down.  Elle Nelson: What would you say, what’s, what’s on your recovery day today then, Brett?  Brett Gilliland: Mine will be stretching and, uh, maybe some yoga and, uh, I’ll probably still get on the rower and, uh, I don’t work out on Wednesday mornings. Um, And so, cause I do a, uh, Tuesday mornings I work out really early, and then Tuesday night I do about a four mile walk when my youngest is at soccer practice. So give myself Wednesday morning to just not have to, uh, dive right back into exercise. So I’ll fit it in sometime today and get it done. But I, I think, you know, for me it’s, it’s, there’s the ice bath people talk about and, and I’m not perfect at that, but it’s, uh, it’s certainly something that is, is helpful. I, I feel completely different after three or four minutes in an ice bath at 40 something degrees, it is absolute hell for 30 seconds, at least for me. And, uh, you know, you see people get in these things and they act like nothing happened. Well, I get in it and you think I’ve been shot, uh, every time it happens. And so I think it sucks and, but I do it. And it feels better. Uh, so that I do a sauna, uh, for recovery, I think is a big deal, but the stretching and just moving your body is, is a big, big deal.  Elle Nelson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That cold exposure therapy is becoming more and more popular. I’m seeing that all the time with how people start their day, like the cold tubs that you can have at your house now. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Elle Nelson: Yeah. That’s becoming more and more popular. So I, I’ve, I’ve gone through phases where I’ve tried it, but I’m similar to you where I’m like, especially in the morning and if it’s already cold outside. Yeah, it’s, it just feels so cold.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. It, uh, it does. It’s absolutely terrible. But I will say it’s worth it. Every time I do it, I’m happy I’ve done it, but it is hell, uh, getting into it. So for those listening, just give it a shot, especially here in the Midwest, you can just turn your bathtub on. Just the cold water only. And it’s, you know, in the wintertime like this, it’s really cold. Um, and so yeah, give it a shot.  See if you can last three or four minutes in there. And, uh, but you gotta focus on your breathing cuz your heart rate goes about a mile a minute. And, uh, just, but the breathing part is huge. And which leads me to my next question is, I saw on your Instagram the, uh, the post of Lionel Messi. Right. And so during the World Cup, he’s got a, he’s got a, I think it was the extra kicks, penalty, kicks, uh, at the end of the game, they’re in overtime, double overtime, whatever it was. Talked about. Breathing, right? Breathing. Mm-hmm. Shoulders up. That was the post. Talk to us again from the business mindset and then the kid playing sports. Why is breathing so important and what do we need to focus on there?  Elle Nelson: Yeah, I mean, breathing is is huge. It can be used for so many things in so many different ways, so it’s something that I talk about pretty early on when I’m working with clients just because it’s one of the easiest things to grasp, right? We do it naturally, but actually if we can do it a little bit more efficiently or with purpose, it can help us calm down. It can help us refocus. We can also use it to kind of like boost our energy, hype ourselves up a little bit too. So I think there’s a lot that we can use breathing for, um, And then like even from a workout standpoint, right? We’re supplying oxygen to the body. We can get more out of our body when we’re supplying that oxygen. So there’s so much that, that the breath and breath work can be used for. In that particular case, when I shared the video, so talking about the World Cup, it’s like these high pressure moments, high pressure situations. So in sport we can see that in really important games, really important moments, um, in every single sport. So I think like free throw is penalty kicks. That can be good examples. Um, so there’s that. But then there’s also giving a presentation. About to deliver some type of workshop, have a difficult conversation. We can use the same breathing in those moments as well. And what it is, is it’s just moments where if there’s high pressure, we might be carrying some tension. So for me, I carry a lot of tension in my shoulders. I don’t know. Do you carry tension in your shoulders or have anywhere in your body that you carry tension? Brett Gilliland: I do. Mine’s right, right here, kind of in my neck slash left shoulder.  Elle Nelson: Okay, let’s, so, so oftentimes it’s like through the neck area and the shoulders. Yeah. And so what we do is we take a big deep breath in and we tense everything up. Right? Right. So we tense up the area that we know is holding a lot of tension already and pressure. So we tense it up to acknowledge that we know it’s there. And then deliberately on that breath out through the mouth, we drop the shoulders, we release it. So by doing that, we’re releasing tension, but also we’re drawing our focus away from whatever might be causing anxiety and choosing to be back in the present moment. Because to think about the breath, we have to be present with it. So all of a sudden we’ve let go, even if it’s first let second, we’ve consciously let go of whatever was holding us back, and we’ve decided to be in the moment so that we can be our best in that moment. Does that make sense?  Brett Gilliland: It does. And I, and I, I a thousand percent believe that, and because I’m, I’ve been meditating and breathing, whatever we want to call it, mindfulness, uh, for, gosh, probably a decade at least now. And it, it, it was a game changer, life changer for me, and I, I share this all the time on here and in public with people is, is that breathing part is hard When you’re having a, an anxiety moment or a stressful moment to believe like, oh, a couple deep breaths are gonna help. Yeah, whatever, man. Buzz off. Right? This is, You know, whatever cuckoo talk, but it, it’s so dang true, right? And, and it is just, if you start to believe it and you start to try, just give it a chance. Give it a try. It is a life changer for people that struggle with that stuff. And it’s, for me, I can be in a moment, in a meeting and just start to feel it for no reason. But you can just kind of do some deep breathing, right? Breathe in through the nose slowly, out through the mouth. You know, people talk about box breathing. I think that’s important for our success in any aspect of life.  Elle Nelson: Mm-hmm. I think so as well. And it’s, it’s even like the, this is something that I do every single night before I go to bed. So I’m one of those people who just, you know, right before you fall asleep, your mind starts to just relax and all of a sudden those thoughts, right. You’ve been trying to control your brain all day to stay focused on tasks. So now you try and go to sleep and, and my thoughts, I don’t know how you are, but like my thoughts are like, Right. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Right.  Elle Nelson: it’s like I come up with the craziest inventions, the conversation I had two years ago. My brain will go a million different directions, and so I use my breath and it’s kind of a form of meditation, but I think that word can be kind of off-putting sometimes. So I just use my breath and I pair it with a tide, like an ocean tide. So as I breathe in, the tide comes up, breathe out. Tide goes down and I picture an ocean. So it’s a form of imagery and visualization as well. And that’s my way of relaxing, clearing my mind. And it’s like any thought that comes, I don’t fight it. I let it pass. I’m observing it, I let it pass, and I go back to my ocean, back to my breathing every time I’ve done it. I’m not kidding, Brett. I fall asleep in three, four minutes tops.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. So you’re laying in bed like, like ready to go to bed when you’re doing that. Yeah.  Elle Nelson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I go to bed a lot with just a meditation going off on my, you know, my phone, which I shouldn’t have it right next to me, but it’s in the nightstand next to me. And you know, I’ll have that kinda peaceful music going and do the same thing, that breathing and I, I need to probably visualize the ocean, but other. My only thought would be I would be like excited and thinking about the ocean that I wouldn’t go to bed. Cause I’d be thinking about vacation or something, but, but I’ll give it a shot. I’ll give the ocean thing a shot and see what happens. But, uh, yeah, yeah, no, it’s, it’s critically important. What, what are some other things, Elle, if I followed you around, would I see, so I get the breathing at night. Um, what other thing, obviously there’s exercise in there, I assume daily, or at least five or six times a week. What other things am I seeing that you do to be at the top of your game?  Elle Nelson: Yeah, I. I mean, I’ll go with the first thing that pops up in my mind. I would say my self-talk out loud and in my head. I used to be kind of embarrassed about the things that I say out loud, but I am not embarrassed anymore. If you’re around me, you might hear me say something to myself and I, I have to work at it every day.  I think it takes a lot of practice, a lot of consistency. Just like you have to show up at the gym every day. You can’t just stop and think, you know, your, your muscles are gonna stay the exact same way. Right. Like, you have to be consistent. And so my self-talk is very consistent. I’m trying to create a default mindset very intentionally. Um, that’s not, oh, I’m always gonna be confident. No, I might not always be confident, right? Because I think confidence is like a feeling. It can come and go, but I’m gonna be courageous. I’m gonna make the tough decisions. I’m going to lift myself up. I’m gonna focus on solutions. And so I think you can hear that in the way that I talk to myself. So, I’ll give you an example. I, I might be, um, talking to someone or in and around having a conversation and something might come out of my mouth like, oh, that was so annoying, I didn’t like when that happened. And then I’ll, I’ll actually out loud go, hold on. Let me try that again and I’ll re-say it and, and I will say something like, um, Do you know what that I had a response that I noticed with that. So in the future I’m gonna try and conquer it like this, like I will out loud and other people will hear me cuz I will literally be like, hold on, let me try that again. Which I, I’m not embarrassed of because I’m sh you know, kind of demonstrating to others that I wanna practice what I preach and I’m hopefully encouraging other people to do the same for themselves. It’s like we tear ourselves apart all the time. It’s so easy to do that. It’s not helpful. So I wanna challenge myself to do hard things. I wanna challenge myself to try things I’m afraid of. I wanna challenge myself to, you know, create a new default mindset, and that means. Consistently kind of talking to myself the way that a good coach or a good friend would. Right. It’s challenging and challenging myself, but I’m making sure it’s helpful and not hurtful. So… Brett Gilliland: I, I love that because it’s funny, I, I have, uh, for some reason, I’ve got, and I, I agree with this, so I’ve lived my life that way, but when it comes to my golf game, I’ve been telling myself I’m absolutely terrible at putting over the last probably five years I’ve been saying that, well, guess what? My putting’s getting worse, right? So this year, 2023, I always say to myself, I’m getting better every day, right? I’m getting better every day. And I know that today I’m gonna be on a conference call that I don’t have to talk much. I’m looking right over there at my putter. And the seven golf balls and the little hole I’ve got, and I practice, I do 21 putts a day. Right? And I’m getting better every day. And so I’m telling myself that this is the year I’m gonna become a phenomenal putter. And, and, and who knows, right? If that happens. But I believe that there’s a better chance of me telling myself that, that I will end 2023 as a better putter than I started it. And you can use that putting analogy for anything, right? I’m gonna be better at presenting in the boardroom to potential clients. I’m gonna be better at whatever. But you gotta tell yourself that, right? I’m getting better every day. I’m getting better every day. So I love that.  Elle Nelson: Mm-hmm.  Brett Gilliland: That’s great stuff. So how do we, how, what’s, what’s the path to build better confidence again for the business person, the, the student athlete? How do we build more confidence?  Elle Nelson: Yeah. So I think there’s a lot of different ways that I could take that. Um, I think we have a lot of different sources of confidence. So figuring out what those sources are is the first thing. It’s, you know, is it rooted in affirmation from others? Like getting positive feedback all the time. Is it getting awards and recognition? Is it in noticing that I’m mastering or kind of unlocking certain skills? Is it noticing that I’m improving in a certain way? Like there are a lot of different sources of confidence. Are they coming externally or internally? Because we wanna make sure that it’s not just through a reinforcement by others. Because sometimes we don’t have that luxury. Sometimes uh, you know, our boss doesn’t give a lot of positive feedback. Not because they don’t think positively of us, but they just don’t think about giving that feedback all the time. Right, right. Like, we might not always have the luxury of getting that. We might not always have a coach who’s gonna lift us up cuz they’ve got a whole team of people they’re working with. So we have to make sure that we reframe and look at sources of confidence that we have more control over, so that way we don’t feel like we’re just being impacted by things all the time. Right? Like all too often if I’m working with an athlete or if I’m working with somebody in the corporate space, it’s like all I had, I delivered a really great presentation or workshop. I’m feeling on top of it, very confident. I had a great practice, great practice for a great game. I’m feeling on top of it, oh, I didn’t do very well, or somebody called me out. Now I’ve got low confidence. It, it’s exhausting. It’s up and down. It’s up and down. It’s so it’s got to be focused on that, that process too, which again, is something that’s in our control. It’s noticing. Notice the little wins. Notice when you tried something that the you six months ago wouldn’t have tried. Notice when you were just a little bit more consistent in something that you’ve been trying to improve on. Notice when you’ve achieved a certain skill that a year ago you didn’t think you’d be able to do, or you got that promotion that you didn’t think you were in. I think the promotion can be a bigger example, but there’s more day-to-day stuff that we often don’t notice. We just expect it or like, okay, now what? We got it now what? Because we’re constantly hard on ourselves, so it’s making sure our confidence is at least somewhat rooted with things that are in our control. And then recognizing when we make progress, like give yourself some credit. We don’t do that very often.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Would you I think those, would you allow me to give a shameless plug to my own journal that I am so pumped? This is, uh, my journal, 22 years in the making is now live on Amazon, so, but my point of bring, yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, my point to this is, is that every day it, it made me think of gratitude, right? Things that you, little victories, little things that we’ve gotta be thankful for every day. And when we write those down every single day, you start to have more gratitude in your life. Isn’t that crazy? Well, it’s not ironic. So that, that’s something I have people write down anywhere from three to five things in this journal and their daily planner, uh, every day. But at the end of the 90 day worksheet or the 90 Day Journal, there’s a gratitude worksheet. And this gratitude worksheet talks about, you know, month one, month two, month three is actually go through your telephone, look at all the pictures you’ve taken, look at all the things that you’ve done, the experiences you’ve created with friends and family. Hopefully write those down one after another. All the things we’re thankful for. Month one, month two, month three. And then at the end, let’s go ahead and pre-book some amazing experiences with your wife, your her husband, your kids, your friends, your family, whoever. And get ’em booked, and now let’s have an amazing next 90 days. Right? And so just keep rolling through that, uh, I think is important, is what came to my mind when, when you so eloquently talked about how to build confidence. I think gratitude’s part of that. Elle Nelson: Mm. Yeah, I would completely agree. It’s like what, what you focus on, you attract, right?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Elle Nelson: So if you’re focusing on the things that you’re grateful for, you’re more likely to notice those things. If you’re, if you’re not, it’s not that those things don’t exist, we’re just not looking for them. So what you’re looking for, It multiplies. So I, I think when you mentioned that gratitude, if that’s a practice that you have consistently, it means you’re gonna be looking for the things that are going well. You’re gonna be grateful even for the adversity. You’re gonna be grateful because you’ll be able to notice more often how you’ve grown from it.  Brett Gilliland: Yep.  Elle Nelson: I am significantly more thankful for all the not so good times. All the times where I didn’t make the team all the times where, you know, I didn’t get such great feedback because I struggled with it, but then I was like, wait, I’m struggling because there’s room for growth. Like, yeah, this is a message that’s being sent to me. Um, and that gratitude journal and reflection is such a good way to reinforce that. Thank you for sharing that too.  Brett Gilliland: Absolutely. Thank you for letting me, um, I’m gonna have some fun. This is the second time I’ve done this and I’m gonna, I’m gonna put you on the spot here, but it’s your Instagram account, so you’ve already gone public with it, so this will be nothing embarrassing. Elle Nelson: Okay?  Brett Gilliland: Uh, but I want you to pick a number between one and 10.  Elle Nelson: Okay, I will choose nine.  Brett Gilliland: 1, 2, 3. All right. Now pick between, uh, one and three. Elle Nelson: Three.  Brett Gilliland: Okay. Thank God you didn’t pick one because it was, uh, so basically what I did is I went to the 10th row of your Instagram account and I, uh, picked, and the row you picked was the Lionel Messi was number one. So I’m like, oh, great, this is gonna backfire. I already already talked about the Lionel Messi quote. And so you said number three. And so that one says, Uh, build a life you love. Uh, things I like my day to consist of coffee, learning, movement, helping others, pausing hard to do, but always worth it. Laughter, enjoy pushing your limits. What daily habits are your non-negotiables? So that’s a great quote, right? And are great posts and it’s got the life of Elle right there in your video. So, so walk us through that post. Why are those things important? Why do we share that and what do you hope others get from it?  Elle Nelson: Yeah. Oh, I think this is really actually related to your, um, gratitude journal because it’s the, the power of consistency and habit and the things that are non-negotiable in my day because they keep me grounded to my values and on track. So for me, I mean the things that you mentioned in there, like movement, being active every day, finding time to pause so I can be in the present moment. Uh, like all of those things are really important to me because it reflects who I am, what’s important to me, or it helps me stay on track and stay plugged into what’s important to me. So I feel like the best version of myself when I have those habits, uh, and those habits help me mentally, physically, and spiritually. So what I would recommend, I mean, this is something that it’s not gonna be the same year after year, after year. I think there’ll be some minor changes based on what’s going on in my life. But for the most part, if I look at the last, like even 10 years, all of those things that I listed have been pretty consistent for me in my day and usually as part of my morning. Uh, so I would recommend for anybody who doesn’t have a morning routine or at least some type of routine throughout the day. Try and find even the smallest of things, even if it’s two, three minutes a day, to incorporate things that are reflected in what’s important to you or helping you be the best version of yourself. I. So that’s, yeah, that’s… Brett Gilliland: And my guess is, um, you know, we, we don’t go way back, but my guess is, uh, what I’ve learned about you already through my research and through today is it’s, I would even almost call it boringly consistent, right? I mean, you just show up every day, even on days you don’t want to do it. Um, you show up and you do it. And I think I even saw one that you said, A crappy run is better than no run. Right. So it’s an all or nothing attitude that we have and, and I’m stealing the words mm-hmm. Out of your post there. But it’s so true. I think so many times in business and in and in personal lives, whatever, it’s, it’s all or nothing. Right? We can’t have a crappy day, and I’ve learned to even celebrate a crappy day because I still got up and made some things happen.  Elle Nelson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it, in that, it’s like, what are you looking at? Are you looking at the fact that you didn’t do as well as your highest standard? Or can you look at it with like appreciation and some gratitude that like, Hey, I still did something. It’s not all or nothing. We all too often think it’s all or nothing. Yeah. Uh, right. Like I, I wanna make the team so I either go and talk to the coach and say, I wanna be on the team, or else I’m gonna quit. It’s, it’s not like, okay, what’s the in between look like? Yeah. What does this conversation look like? What’s the compromise or what can I do? And that’s reflected in habits day to day. I think that it’s celebrating when it’s not as good.  Brett Gilliland: Well, this has been absolutely awesome. Uh, Elle, where can our listeners find more of you? Elle Nelson: Hmm. Uh, find me on Instagram and LinkedIn probably. Uh, More so than other places I would say. Okay. So Instagram, I think I already mentioned earlier, @riseover.run and then LinkedIn as well. Uh, yeah, probably there… Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Elle Nelson: …more so than anything else.  Brett Gilliland: And you’ve got your Link Tree. For those that don’t know what Link Tree is, you can check it out on her. Um, Instagram handle. I’ve got one as well. And it just kind of shows you anything that you’d want to get from that person. So that, uh, that’s good. That’s great. Elle, it’s been awesome having you on the Circuit of Success. And, uh, we’ll, we’ll see you, uh, on April 6th, uh, at your webinar. And, uh, for those people that listening, she does respond. Hence how we’re together on, uh, on this podcast today. So reach out, um, any questions you have for Elle and Elle it’s been awesome having you.  Elle Nelson: Likewise, Brett, it’s been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Sean Donohue joins us to discuss the importance of building a healthy parent-child relationship through trust, mentoring and emotional connection. Sean shares his perspective on parenting styles and encourages parents to slow down and find a healthy balance between being an authoritative parent while also being flexible and emotionally connected. Throughout the podcast, Sean discusses the impacts of parenting and personal growth. Whether you’re a parent struggling to connect with your children or looking to strengthen your bond, this week’s podcast is full of valuable insights from a family coach’s view.  https://youtu.be/npnjB22Q_zk Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’ve got my buddy Sean Donohue with me. Sean, what’s up man? How are you?  Sean Donohue: Hey, Brett. What’s up? Hey, really happy to be here. Brett Gilliland: It’s good to be with you. You, uh, you coming to us from California out there and, uh, what’s, what’s your hats say? Appeal to heaven with a tree there. I like that. You, you always got the coolest hats.  Sean Donohue: You know, thank you. You know, I, uh, actually find patches online and then I put ’em on, ran random hats cuz I want to have like unique hat. This hat An appeal to heaven. Uh, it’s got a little tree on it. This was, uh, one of the first United States flags. In fact, George Washington and the homies, they needed a flag to put on their ships because they didn’t have a country. So they came up with this flag and appeal to heaven so that they could distinguish between our, our ships and the freaking, uh, Great Britain, uh, communists that were coming down trying to steal our, uh, all our stuff. Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome, man. I have no idea.  Sean Donohue: Cool. It’s cool. Cool story, huh?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, its very cool story.  Sean Donohue: [inaudible] I’m surprised I don’t see this patch or this flag more often because, I mean, it’s just like America. You know what I mean?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Screams America, even though I didn’t know it screamed America. I love it.  Sean Donohue: It really does. Brett Gilliland: Right. Well, Sean Donohue is the family coach man. You are, uh, big on, uh, social media and have made a, a wave, I guess on TikTok. I’m new to this TikTok thing. My, my kids told me I had to get on TikTok, but you’ve got like, what, 500,000 million, whatever it is. Followers and, uh, some good stuff. And again, you are the family coach. Uh, you and I have spent a great deal of time together in the year of 2023. Uh, I’m always very transparent and vulnerable in these podcasts, and so, uh, Sean is the guy that helps me, uh, with my crazy life, right? With, you know, running a business, having four kids, a marriage, all the things that we do to try to, you know, just live life man and be the best we can be. I have, uh, personally hired Sean and working with him in 2023 and it’s been phenomenal. And, uh, so I had to have him on the podcast. And so here we are today. But with all that being said, Sean, if you can, I always have people that give us a little lay of the land and what’s made you the man you are today, because you don’t just wake up and help hundreds of thousands of people, uh, have better families. So what is it that has made you the man you are today? Sean Donohue: Oh my goodness. Well, I’m a little flattered by the invitation because, uh, I’ve, um, I love being on People Podcast, Brett, but I consider you a friend and a client, so I’ve never been on a friend’s podcast before, so this is like really cool because I feel like I know you, I trust you. I feel like, uh, you know, you have helped me to be a better man just by our times together and sharing life together. And so that’s, uh, so thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Brett Gilliland: Thank you.  Sean Donohue: Yeah, I think that, to answer your question, um, the first, the first thing I think of actually when you ask me about who I am as a 44 year old man, married for 18 years, uh, three daughters is other men. Other men. Uh, I do love my, my own dad and I do. I did have a good experience with my stepdad growing up, but it was, uh, I didn’t, no, not my primary mentors. I had to reach out to other men when I was in my teens in twenties and thirties because I was just a hot mess of a man. And I don’t really blame myself because, you know, you don’t know what you don’t know. And so I had, uh, some challenges in my childhood and my young adult life, and I just craved to be a healthy man. I craved to be a good dad and a healthy businessman, and I knew I didn’t have it. I knew I didn’t. I knew I had to get it. And so I got it from books and then I got it from going up to other men, just surrounding myself with other healthy men who were smarter than me and knew a lot more about life. So that’s the first thing I think of, man.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, that’s awesome. And, and again, you’ve been doing this family stuff for 20 years, right? Because social media is new and, and you’ve kind of gotten this crazy following, but yet this is what you’ve really dedicated your life to, uh, uh, as being in that world, right? Sean Donohue: Yeah, man. The first, uh, I was just telling my, my, one of my daughters about this. First thing I ever got passionate about was actually standup comedy and comedy writing. I did that even before I was 21. I even performed in the comedy store, which is only 21 and up when I was 20 years old. And then I started volunteering with kids in afterschool program and youth groups and Christian type stuff, and I, it just was this calling. It was like, I’m not supposed to be in entertainment. I’m supposed to be spending my life around kids and around, uh, families. And so yeah, I was, now I’m an old man and I’m not as cool as I used to be, so I don’t connect with the kids as well as I used to. So I spend most of my time now just, uh, being with like-minded parents who are in the thick of it. Yeah. And so, yeah, the social media thing has been really fun. It’s, it’s a grind. It’s a whole different gamut. It comes with lots of pros and cons. But yeah, it has been helpful to help me just help people and, and spread the l, spread the love and to put tools in people’s toolboxes, Brett.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. I’m a, I’m a big believer in coaching. You know, I, I’m a, I love sports and, you know, you think about whether it’s the best golfers in the world and, and you know, you look at, even yesterday the masters got done and you know, I’m watching John Rom after his round. You know, he is, Loving on his wife, his kids, but you, you see the people, right, that are there for him. And, and I said, okay, that guy knows a mental mindset coach on tour. That guy’s a nutritionist, that guy’s a strength guy. I mean, they, they’ve, they’re surrounded with people, right? That, that are helping them get to the level they want to. And I think that you and I both believe this obviously’s what you do for a living. It’s what I do for a living. Helping people with their money, uh, and their goals and their dreams and aspirations. But how important is coaching and spending time with others and learning from them?  Sean Donohue: Well, he actually saw that social media post you made, and I totally agree. I mean, you look at these athletes, these professional athletes, they’re just surrounded by other people. They are not in it alone. And what’s so cool about what’s happening between me and you and everyone listening to this podcast right now, Brett, is that you know, men, we’ve always had a growth mindset towards different things. You know, like this is not a new term. Uh, now it’s the term’s like 15 years old, but this is not a new psychological concept of men. We are, we are builders, you know, we are creators, we are artists, we are providers. And, and so, you know, I wasn’t, I wasn’t, you know, I wasn’t there back in the 1700s when my relatives in Ireland were grinding, you know, planting potatoes and trying to keep their, you know, families alive. But I have a, I, I have a feeling the old Donohue’s of the past, they were men of great strength, and they were fighters and they would protect their family, but they were always growing to try to improve their land, improve themselves. But now what’s happening is that we have a generation of men, just like everyday, men like you and I, who have a growth mindset towards parenting, towards family life. It’s like, I don’t, I can’t speak for our dads. They’re not here right now, Brett. I don’t think our dads are going to like a parenting conferences, you know, back when we were growing up in the, uh, seventies, eighties, or nineties, or whenever y’all grew up.  Brett Gilliland: Right.  Sean Donohue: You know what I mean?  Brett Gilliland: Totally. Yeah. You’re totally, absolutely right. Sean Donohue: Yeah. So, so I, I mean, I wasn’t like, You know, I, the reason I got here is because I had to learn mostly from women about the art of parenting and family dynamics. And so yeah. Now we’re here because, you know, we might say family is the most important thing. We might have our last name tattooed on our back, or we say we love our kids more than anything. But what’s so cool is that now we have, like we are. As men, we are very different, uh, than our, than the generations before us because we’re really into this thing called parenting. It’s like, yeah, we want our kids to obey and cooperate and respect and become successful. We also, you know, we want to be close. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Sean Donohue: We want to be connected. We want to mentor them. Right. That is like, You know, I love the word coaching, but really the word coaching is, is very similar, just the word mentoring, right?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Sean Donohue: So we wanna mentor, and that’s what our kids today need more than ever. They need our connection, they need our mentoring because without a healthy parental figures in their life, we already know what’s gonna happen. They’re gonna be a freaking hot mess, and they’re gonna cause more problems, you know, in society and in their families. And that’s what we’re seeing all, all around, everywhere we look right.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I think too, it’s man, you look at business people and, and, and non-business people, but this is really anybody, these families that have a tight, cohesive unit. I mean, that, that’s what I pray and hope for, right, with my four boys is that they want to continue to be around me and, uh, yeah. And all that stuff. And I mean, that’s the definition of success now, right? It’s not the, the success in business as much as the success that when my kids kind of go to college and go away, that they want to, uh, come back around and, you know, like yesterday I keep talking about the masters, but I, I got to. Spend the day on Easter Sunday and watch the golf tournament. My mom and dad and a bunch of other families were around, but we were dialed into the golf tournament because that’s what I remember, you know, doing as a kid. And so it’s cool to do that and I want to continue to do that with my kids. And are you seeing a big change in that? Sean Donohue: Yeah, definitely. My work is, uh, I think very, I’m happy to say, It’s very effective. You know, lots of happy clients hap and when you say change, I also see like change happens when a, when a mom or a dad gets motivated to create positive change in their family, in their dynamics to break those painful cycles. It changes the world. I mean, yeah, we talk about how influential media is on our kids and that’s fine. It’s true, but the most powerful person, you know, in a child’s life is their own parents. Brett Gilliland: Yep.  Sean Donohue: And just to compliment you, I mean, you just, let me affirm you for a second. Like, you know it, if you ask 10 people, what’s the definition of a successful man, you’re gonna get 10 different responses. But for me, for sure, I view you as very successful. Because what is success? I mean, success is, I really don’t even know much about your business. I, I did. Look, I love your social media. I love, but I mean, look what you’re doing, you. You’re really, uh, you have a loving family. You have four imperfect, imperfect kids. You’re an imperfect dad, and you’re in the grind, loving them, learning with them, sharing problems with them, you know, uh, humanizing yourself to them. And now you’re st you’re, you’re in this role of being their, their father, but also being their mentor. And now you’ve shifted clearly part of your business where you spend your free time. You know, on a podcast, giving encouragement, giving support, giving free knowledge and mentoring, coaching to so many people, cuz we could all learn so much from you about all these things. Like you have your book out and your calendar and this, this whole, all these, you know, trying to be successful in all these different areas of our lives. So just, yeah, happy to be rapping with you about this stuff, man. Brett Gilliland: I love it. I love it. So, so let’s talk. So most of these podcasts I do are around mindset and business and success, right? And, and I’ve had people say, Hey, have you ever thought about doing some parenting stuff on here? And so that’s what we’re gonna talk about today. So, uh, obviously you can’t dive into the details of your clients and, and tell us all that stuff, but in today’s world, you know, it’s, it’s crazy. It’s, you know, the constant notifications. It’s social media, it’s our kids want our phones and we are busy with as parents and all this stuff, right? We, we all live kind of the same life. Uh, I call it the, the, the treadmill of life. And, and we have to really take ourself off the treadmill of life. And I do it through coaching with you and, and through other things. Um, but what, what’s the constant themes that you’re seeing amongst families that you’re helping right now and who you’re coaching? Sean Donohue: Oh man. Well, the biggest, yeah. Uh, two things come to mind. The first thing come to mind is when you were used to back in, when we were growing up, when you used to think about a really hurting child, a hurting teenager. I mean, I would guess the most of us would be thinking about those, uh, you know, those kids that were just party hard, right? They’re getting caught up in pot or violence or drugs like that you see in the movies. You know what I mean?  Brett Gilliland: Right.  Sean Donohue: It, that was, those were the, the troubled kids. It’s like the, uh, you know, like he didn’t think that movie Dazed and Confused like that Matthew McConaughey figure that we love to quote. What does he say? Like, he’s so funny. That’s like the movie that made him funny. Like, that dude was like a creeper cuz he was like 18, 19 ,20. He is flirting with high school girls. Like we all laugh, but that’s the type of kid you would think about back in the day of like a troubled kid. But nowadays, I mean these screens have in, they’ve not only impacted the entire childhood experience, they’ve impacted the entire parenting experience. Our screens have even impacted the human experience. And so we are seeing, I’ve been seeing so many problems, you know, come up with screens and how they are impacting our family dynamics, how they’re impacting us as husbands or wives trying to be close and connected to each other. And so it is just causing so many problems and, and furthermore, what’s caused even more problems at these companies like Google and Apple, I mean they are just all in it for the dollar. So they have just screwed us everyday parents with giving us all this technology without very many good, helpful parental restrictions or knowledge about how to use it. Now we’ve come a long way in 10 years, in the last 10 years cause I’ve been doing this for a long, longer than that. But yeah, there’s just a lot of hurting parents out there right now because of screens and these parents, you know, they feel lost and they feel confused, frustrated, like, what is going on here? Brett Gilliland: So what, what do you do and whether it’s you personally as your family or, or you know, the families again that you work with. What, what are the tools? I know you talk about the toolbox, right? The parenting toolbox and, and I don’t get to see your toolbox and you don’t get to see my toolbox and all that stuff, but like what’s in the toolbox now for those parents that these kids, man, they want these phones, right? They want ’em and it’s hard to get ’em away and Right, and to take it away sometimes can be like World War III starting, right? So, What, what tools are you helping, helping parents with, and how are you even helping your own teenage daughters, uh, get off the phone and spend more time away from that stuff? Sean Donohue: You might, you might really love my answer and you might hate it because I don’t, I think my answer is sometimes frustrate people because I don’t really answer questions directly. Sometimes I feel like they direct me, but, so let me, um, let me, let me, uh, let me answer this in a few different ways and let me get your thoughts on it. Cause I’d love to get your thoughts cuz I feel like this is a, a weird answer and maybe you think it is or maybe think and it’s not weird, you know, parenting is like never about what it’s about. So on the surface it might be about screens or it might be about your kid won’t empty the freaking dishwasher. Or clean up the freaking dog poop or the cat litter box. On the, on the, on the surface, it might seem like your kids getting salty when Gram and Grandpa come over for Easter because they want to do X, Y, and Z. But it’s never really about that. It’s, it’s always about something else. So how I help people solve problems to be the parent they want to be and to raise the kids that they want is to slow down and first. Like realize that, you know, mindset is everything. How you look about your life and your parenting is everything. So when it comes to screens, for example, it’s almost never about a screen. It’s normally about trust. Either you have trust or the relationship is lacking trust. Either the young person has sh shown to you that they’re trustworthy around a screen, which is the world’s most powerful device. Hmm, or the young person has shown you, look, I’m just a young person and this is a very powerful device that’s affecting my psychology. You know, my emotions, my identity, and I really need your help in developing a healthy, trusting relationship with this screen. So that’s first thing I think of Brett.  Brett Gilliland: I like, yeah, yeah. But, but again, I think that’s, it’s easy to say that, but what happens when you get, go in and, and they’ve been wanting to just sit on their phone for, you know, an hour and a half, two hours instead of, you know, coming out of their room. And maybe there’s parents out there, uh, and I know I’ve done this in the past, like, get off your damn phone, right? Like…  Sean Donohue: Right, who hasn’t done that.  Brett Gilliland: Don’t do this, go do A, B, and C. So like that doesn’t work. It doesn’t work.  Sean Donohue: No, it doesn’t.  Brett Gilliland: Right, and and so what are you doing again, if, if it’s a tool, right? It’s a hammer. What’s that hammer for you that maybe gets your daughters off the phone and a and last… Sean Donohue: Yeah. Here’s like a, here’s a, there’s a lot of ways I can answer that question. Lots and lots of answers, but here’s like a, here’s like a really kind of a, a profound but kind of silly way of looking at the answer to that question. Um, I’m not really into like the food pyramid. Or the food my plate, I think they’re stupid. Like, you know what I’m talking about that?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Sean Donohue: I’m also, I’m really not into, um, like those stupid posters that if you go into like a freshman health class, you’ll see all these posters. You’ll see like a, you’ll see this homeless dude, he’s all cracked out and he looks homeless and it says like in the caption, like, kids don’t do crack. Or it all started for me the first time I took that one joint in ninth grade. Right. You know those posters like fear mongering posters?  Brett Gilliland: Yep.  Sean Donohue: These things suck because they don’t reach anyone’s heart. They don’t reach the heart. It’s almost like if you go to the community pool and it says, you know, No roughhousing. It’s like, screw you, dude. Roughhousing is like the best part of going to the pool. You know, let’s get some chicken fights right now, like, I’m not gonna listen to you. Or like some skinny, like 14 year old lifeguard. They, I can’t even save me if I, you, you know what I mean? I don’t care about these things and because they don’t really reach my heart. So, so much of parenting, um, is about really reaching our kids’ hearts, and this is not easy. And it’s not easy because of a lot of reasons. One is because, uh, their hearts might be more into what’s on a screen. Brett Gilliland: Yep.  Sean Donohue: Two is a lot of us, we didn’t learn skills from our parents on how to really reach the heart, like we didn’t have good modeling or teaching from our parents about heart to heart connection or really having these intimate close relationships with our kids. Many of us, we don’t really even know how to share our hearts to our kids. Some other people are really, really bad at listening. They suck at listening. I mean, Americans suck at listening. We’re like some of the world’s worst listeners, but parents are really sucky at listening. Cuz if you think about it, the more you actually listen to your kid. The more crap you’re going to hear that you don’t like. Right? And then like a math problem, then you’re gonna get tempted to get triggered to talk or to to react, to lecture, to pep talk, to teach when they’re just trying to talk and open up to you. So the, the thesis of this long-winded question, Brett, is how do we develop, The question is not how do we get our kids? How do we get them off a screen When grandma and grandpa come over, the question is, is how do I develop a really close, connected relationship with my children so that they really know my heart? And they know that I know their hearts in a way so that they want to care about me and they want to follow the rules of the house, and they want to empty the dishwasher and clean the dog poop, not because they’re afraid of getting in trouble or getting yelled at or scolded, but because they love me, they love this family, they love grandma and grandpa, and we can trust them. Around these powerful devices like screens, so that their hearts are really connected to the family and the family values, and they know how to prioritize the distractions in our life. That’s, that’s a long, that’s a long question.  Brett Gilliland: No, and it, it is, but it’s, uh, it’s, it’s a big one. Right? Because again, you can fill in the blank. If it’s not screens, it’s the trash, it’s whatever. Uh, um. So again, for you though, how, how do we do that though? Because it doesn’t just, you don’t just say, Hey, love this family, care for this family, and then all of a sudden help.  Sean Donohue: Let me ask you. Brett Gilliland: You’re right, you’re right.  Sean Donohue: Okay. How about this, this, hopefully you’re cool with this. Can I ask you a question?  Brett Gilliland: Absolutely.  Sean Donohue: All right. Saw on your social media, cause I liked it. You recently took your family to my state, California for the first time. Mm-hmm. Um, I have a feeling that you guys had some great family time on this trip. Yeah. Making memories, you know, frolicking in the Pacific Ocean. Just being together, just sharing life, laughing, eating, barbecuing, just making memories. So tell us some about some of the stories that you experienced last week, and do you believe that some of this bonding took place and it’s gonna help your sons become better men and to do better with their chores, to receive your coaching and your mentoring more because you just spent quality time. You know, just bonding and being with your family.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah, for sure. There’s no, and again, it’s, it was the times where they would come up and, you know, put their arm around you and this, this is awesome. This is the best trip ever. Right? Yeah. Like, yeah. That for sure that happens. But then there’s also the times where, you know, it’s four boys and it’s, it’s time to go to bed on vacation. Right. And Yeah.  Sean Donohue: Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: And dad’s frustrated and exhausted and so you’ve helped me with that and through that stuff and, and so how do we do that?  Sean Donohue: Yeah. Well, um, did you, uh, did you speak from your heart? Yes. And we can say to them, Hey guys, love you guys so much. We had a great day here in Santa Monica, and I know you’re ha having a good time. And I know you’re teenagers, you’re young men, but it’s really your mom. And I really want us all to go to bed cuz we got a big day tomorrow. Tomorrow. It would, it would mean a lot to us if you go to bed. Do you guys want to go to bed? Are you gonna go to bed right now? What would they say? Let’s do some role playing here. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah. We’ll go to bed now.  Sean Donohue: Alright, cool. So, hey guys, can I trust you guys because this iss, I’m serious about this. We got a big day tomorrow and we got your younger brothers right here.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Sean Donohue: And he’s little, so we gotta, I really be out. Need to be able to trust you.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I think that’s a big question, right? That again, you’ve helped me with is that can I trust you? Like even the, the trash, right? No, nobody, no kid. I shouldn’t say no kid, but most kids don’t want to just, Hey, son, take out the trash. Oh, okay. And they jump right on it, right? They, they may not wanna do that. Yeah. But hey, can we take out the trash and then instead of demanding that it be done in that moment, right? It, it’s, can I trust you that you’re gonna get this done? You know, and whatever in a timely manner. And that, yeah. So what can I trust you is a big question.  Sean Donohue: Yeah, because what we’re doing here as parents, you know, what we’re doing as parents is so much more than meets the eye. Your kids are never gonna take class, for example, on the psychology of trust, how to build it, how to break it, how to repair it, what it even is. And so our kids, they, we want them to be able to trust us, to take them on nice vacations, to provide food for them, to support them. But what one of the things we’re doing here and kind of we’re talking about here is this us stepping into the role of what’s called an emotion coach. Hmm. Where we’re not, we’re teaching our kids a lot of things, whether it be a great California vacation. We’re teaching them about the importance of family time, the importance of working hard and celebrating your successes. But in this little role playing, we just did, we’re also teaching them about, The psychology of trust and why it really matters in this relationship. Because if these kids were to be defined to you and they’d be up at 3:00 AM on a Santa Monica vacation, like I, I would be pissed. Would you be pissed?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Sean Donohue: Yeah. Because it’s such a violation of like trust, right? It’s like, guys, I brought you out here to the West coast and I’m able to trust you to like work together with this schedule because we’re gonna wake up at 9:00 AM. And you guys are young and you have a younger brother, and so see, so yeah, it’s, I’m not saying you can’t demand your kids to go to bed, your teenagers to go to bed at 11:00 PM you know, on a, on a vacation. Do whatever you want. I’m just telling you look more than meets the eye because yeah, if you can really have your kids look in the eye, say, yeah, you can trust me to empty that dishwasher, and then you have something beautiful, you have something in your relationship with your kids that a lot of parents don’t have, which is a trusting relationship. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, that’s the qbq, right? The, I call it, the question behind the question is that, can I trust you? Or whatever the question is. I think getting them involved in that versus, and, and again, I’m not perfect at this. I’ll still make the demand, but what I find is when I actually slow down, ask the question, it goes better, right? Ask the question of what needs to be done, let them come up with the idea versus. Damn it. Go to bed, right? Like,  Sean Donohue: Oh my gosh. Brett Gilliland: I don’t know, man. I think it’s a lot different. It’s a whole hell of a lot different. Sean Donohue: For sure. Yeah. Here’s the, here’s like a, okay, here’s like, here’s the story I just thought of. Okay. All right, man. So you got four kids, you got three teenagers or two.  Brett Gilliland: Uh, getting ready to be three. Yeah. One’s turning 12 next year. I got two or 13. I mean, next week I got two.  Sean Donohue: Yeah. We parents, we think in our minds, this is our mindset, in our poor mindset thinking, Brett, we think that parenting should be like something we see in the movies. Like these kids just should naturally just obey us, but that’s just not reality. Especially in 20 20, 20 23. It is just, obedience is not, it’s not like it used to be. And so raising kids, especially like raising changers is really more like this. It’s more like, imagine your plane went down and you’re there on an deserted island. It’s just you. You’re the only adult and the whole island. It’s filled with teenagers. Okay. You with me? With this example? Yep. Yep. Now you’re wise, you got grays, you got gray in your hair. You’re like, I know a lot about lies. So naturally, as LA could tell you are you speak up, you’re like given direction. Okay, we need food or food, we need water, we need shelter, we need spears, we need some farming, we need some someone to do the sos. We need to do this. Right? This is what most adults would probably do. You vibing with me? Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep.  Sean Donohue: Especially men like me and you. It’s like, let’s take charge and let’s do this. Right. We’re giving out direction. It’s almost like it was one of the best shows of all time Lost. Oh my gosh. Like I think Jack, he was like, he kind of took charge in a sense, and it was like a fairytale because people kind of submitted themselves under Jack, the leadership and the TV show lost, but that’s just a total fantasy.  Because in the real world, you can’t just go around and tell people what to do, and you can’t just go around tell teenagers what to do because they don’t want to do that. They’re very selfish beings, just like we are. They wanna do things their way, on their time. So what should you do then? Well, and the, and what, what I kind of help parents do using this as like an analogy is how do you build, you know, trust and relationship with the people in your life? Remember, they don’t, like, for example, you know, they don’t really know which they don’t really care what you know until they know that you care. They don’t care what you know until they know that you care. How do you teach them about teamwork or how, you know, treating your sibling with love and respect while you’re driving in the minivan? It really matters. It affects the whole family, right? How you, if you don’t do your chore, then that’s going to create like a chain of negative vibes because then one person is, the adult is gonna be like, Hey, you didn’t do your chore. And then it’s gonna go over here and then it’s gonna go here. It’s like a web of connection, A web of positive, good connections or like this web of this train. We’ve all felt that. You felt that, right? You filled it on a, you fell it on a vacation, on vacation. It’s like highs are so high and those are so low. Like you have a big blow up on VA family vacation. It’s like the worst, right? Oh, it’s like, what the hell? You drive all this, you go all the way out here, you’re spend all this money and the kids are acting like bozos. It sucks. So, yeah. So what is, what, what research shows us now in conclusion, is that authoritarian parenting, um, is not very effective. It doesn’t produce obedient kids. It produces defiant kids or sneaky lying, disrespectful kids. On the other extreme as we’ll call it like passive or permissive parenting research shows us that’s not very effective to create great kids because kids need parents. They need morals, they need teaching, they need wisdom, they need boundaries. And so what we’re kind of talking about on this podcast, Brett, is how do we thrive as everyday authoritative parents, emotion coaches. Parents who are really connected emotionally to their children, who wanna listen, who wanna, who want to be close and empathetic and want to hear. But we’re also the parents. So we set the tone, we set the values, but we’re flexible, right? We’re those like managers that you wanna work with. We care about your feelings. We know that you’re different than us. You have different ways of looking at things. You’re not like a, you’re not like a Bonzi tree that I can snip and mold just to my selfish liking. You’re more like this wildflower and you grow, where you grow, how you grow, and I wanna, I want to share in this whole thing called life and have this privilege cuz it is a privilege. Of mentoring you. That’s like a little thing. And then you can take that to the island and you can bring love and order to that deserted island to a group of young people who desperately need it. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I think, and hopefully it’s okay if I share some of the tools we’ve worked through. I’m not, I’m not taking your thunder away from your coaching and going too public with that.  Sean Donohue: No. Let’s, um, let’s get… Brett Gilliland: but I think it was, you know, I look at the three things, and I’m looking back through my notebook, through my journal, is, You know, what are my desires, right? What are my desires in my relationship with my wife? What are my desires for my relationship in with my kids in our business? Whatever it may be. What are my desires?  Sean Donohue: Yep. Brett Gilliland: When those desires aren’t met, what are my reactions, right? What are my reactions? How am I reacting? Do we act out? Do we place blame? Is it control what, whatever, right? Whatever the words are that you want to use. But I think it’s been really important to me is to find out what my buttons are. Right. We all know, like if, if you and I were best friends and together every day, I would know your buttons. Right. And I would know exactly what button to push to piss you off if I wanted to, right? Sean Donohue: Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Brett Gilliland: And our kids and our, I can do it to my wife, I can do it to my kids, I can do it to whoever, right? I know what button to push. And I think the more I have found out on what my buttons are on that stuff, that, that’s the game changer for me is, ah, I realize the button is getting pushed. Now I have to control my reaction to that. So when you hear that played out, that way… Sean Donohue: We get a little deep. Let’s get… Brett Gilliland: Let’s go. Sean Donohue: …little, let’s get a little deep with each other right now because. Yeah. Based on what you just said, I feel like you kind of gave me permission to ask you this question. Yep. Um, one of our first times talking to each other in a session, you struggled in picking some of the words to really know yourself. Yep. Um, it’s like you, uh, you had more words that were, that I would determine as just like, kind of not as descriptive words, like angry or frustrated. I’m not a big fan of those words and I think you aren’t either now cuz  Brett Gilliland: Right.  Sean Donohue: And I invited you to go deeper, pick big, get to know yourself, pick some deeper words. So do you feel comfortable sharing? With me or with anyone. What are some of the words that you’ve landed on that like when these buttons get pushed for you, it’s like really hard and then I can go after you.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I mean, if my buttons get pushed and it, again, whether it’s go to bed or whatever it may be, it could be disrespected. There’s, there’s guilt, there’s invalidated, un cared for, it’s powerless, unappreciated, right? Those are the things for me that, uh, that hit, that’s what it hits me at home. Right? That’s what it hits me right in the gut. And then that’s where there may be a reaction. And, and again, you know, you and I joke, it’s like, well, you know, it could be a hell of a lot worse. Right? We’re very lucky with the families that we have, but I think if you wanna be that best parent possible, we have to understand those, those buttons and what those things are and then how we react with those.  Sean Donohue: Thank you for sharing those words, cuz those are, those are big words and. Somebody, uh, I just started a podcast. It’s called the Sean Donohue Show. Um, we only have like few episodes released, but my co-host Jordan, he’s a weatherman on the Weather Channel and good buddy of my grew up in San Diego together. He even asked me on the last episode, which I think…  Brett Gilliland: The weather man in San Diego. That’s a tough gig. I’m just kidding. Hey, 72 and sunny again. My god’s getting hotter there now.  Sean Donohue: Yeah, when you grow up in San Diego, there’s like so many cultural things that are different than like how you grow up everywhere else. Like I’m in Northern California now near Sacramento, but San Diego is, there’s like a ton of different things. I, I, I wish we could talk about it right now, but we gotta talk about parenting, but, okay. Yeah. It’s attracted rather man in San Diego, right? So we grew up in San Diego, but uh, he asked me, Sean, why do these words matter? You’re always like picking on words. Yeah, if you don’t like the word mad or angry, why on the last episode? Because, uh, as you know, you know, Brett, maybe more than anyone, like mindset is really important. It’s how do you talk to yourself, how do you counsel yourself? In those moments. So what I have determined and found is that one of the ways that we as parents can best be the best parents we can be is to get to know our words and to talk to ourselves. So when this, when your kids are acting like bozos and they’re acting out, You then don’t, you don’t just react, you talk to yourself, say, what’s happening with you? Well, I don’t know. I’m feeling really, I’m feeling really in, you know, invalidated right now. Why? Well, because it’s like I, what I say, it’s like they’re saying it doesn’t matter. I hate feeling invalidated. Right. What else? What else are you feeling? Yeah, I’m feeling really unheard. Yeah. Why are you feeling unheard? Well, because I freaking already said it, the dang kid twice. He’s just not hearing me. Right. So why is that so hard for you? Why is it so hard for me? Well, because I hate feeling unheard. But why? Feeling unheard is a normal part of parenting. I know it is. I know, I know. But yeah. What are you gonna do about it? I don’t know. I’m just talking to myself right now. That’s what I’m doing. Right, right. What are you gonna do after this? I dunno. Okay. Well, remember your training. What should I do? Well, I feel like I’m doing it right now. Right? You’re talking to yourself. Right. So, Right. Unheard. Yeah. Because when I go to work, people respect me there. Like they listen to me. I don’t feel unheard at work and I come home, we run these little humans that I freaking bought them new lacrosse sticks. I take them on vacation in Texas. I just bought ’em new Nikes for $150 and now they do me like this. I’m feeling so unimportant right now in their lives and I just want to freaking punish them. I want to teach them. You don’t. You dare. Treat me like this or you know what? Maybe not. Maybe I’ll just have some whiskey, I don’t know, maybe four or five glasses. So maybe six. I don’t take the edge off. You see what we do? Don’t take the edge off, right? And why? Why do we do all this? It all goes back to because the adult in this is feeling unheard and, and validated. Mm. This is how we escalate things so quickly in our minds. I mean, parenting is so emotional, you know?  Brett Gilliland: Right. That’s amazing. And you’re right, man. We did. Yeah, absolutely. So what, um, that could go a thousand different directions. So what, okay. What do you do? If you’re okay with sharing, like in the moment, cuz it’s you, you can’t just ask yourself these questions and know your desires and know your reactions and know your buttons and never just still like, be fired up. Right? And, and so what do you do? Help us parents and, and again.. Sean Donohue: Oh man, I get fired up.  Brett Gilliland: I don’t think so.  Sean Donohue: What? Um… Brett Gilliland: How do we do that?  Sean Donohue: Okay. Yeah. Let me, um, uh, about two months ago you and I were chatting about that bracelet on your wrist. I think it’s like a, is it called a whoop. Brett Gilliland: The whoop the whoop bracelet, yep.  Sean Donohue: Can we, can I answer a question by incorporating that and getting your thoughts on the whoop?  Brett Gilliland: Absolutely.  Sean Donohue: All right. So, so I’m really intrigued because I have two clients now, um, that have talked to me about the Whoop Brett. You and this other man and you’ve, uh, is it true that the whoop can tell you even your sleep patterns and your recovery patterns? Is that, is that true? Can you tell us a about that?  Brett Gilliland: That is true.  Sean Donohue: And then I’ll build off that.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, absolutely. It’ll tell me my recovery based on numerous things, but from, you know, basically what I ate the day before to my sleep, to my, you know, water intake, to if you had alcohol, if, I mean, if you had stress, no stress. I mean, it’s all sorts of stuff that were really comes into how my recovery is or how my sleep was.  Sean Donohue: So I was, uh, working with this man. We’ll call him, uh, give him a, I’ll give him a weird name. I’ll give him a unique name. We’ll call him Sebastian. Right? I dunno, that’s not a new name. I dunno. I just making up names. But, and uh, and he was, uh, taking my advice cuz he was letting me coach him. I was working with like two, three days a week. Cause he was going through some hard stuff with his, uh, partner, his girlfriend, fiance. And he says to me, Brett, Like, oh my gosh. Like, I feel so funny this week my whoop is telling me like my body is doing really, really, really well. But his workout patterns hadn’t changed. His diet hadn’t changed. So tell me, you’re the whoop, you know more about it than me. What do you, what do you think happened with this man? Why was the whoop telling him that he’s in the green, which is like positive sleep and recovery? What’s your take on this? Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, I would assume, and this you did not, uh, tell me about this, and you did not, you’re not paying me to say this, but I would assume that the more clarity he has and peace he has internally, um, the better his recovery’s gonna be. Right? So when I handle stress better, and whether that’s meditation, Or just anything, right? If I’m, if I’m on my A game, my recovery’s gonna be the same, even with the same amount of water, same food, same sleep. You can vary on your day, right? So I would say the fight or flight, uh, there’s less flight or less fight. Yeah. Uh, if you will, because of the coaching and just more self-awareness.  Sean Donohue: Um, I’m, I’m a big fan of, uh, Andrew Huberman, which is this scientist from Stanford. He’s been on joe Brogen a lot. I just was looking at his YouTube as like huge today, so I’m know Andrew Huberman, but let me do my best Andrew Huberman.  Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s funny you say Andrew Huberman because he’s part of the, he’s part of whoop, he, he’s an, uh, he’s one of their spokespeople now on stress management side of that. Sean Donohue: Yeah. Right. So, uh, let me do my best impressions. So, alright, so in the science of love and attachment, we often talk about it with. Our partners, right, our spouses. But I am a, I teach about attachment theory, um, through a, a parenting point of view. And I usually think about it as in our goal is to develop healthy attachments with our children, so they feel attached to us. But I feel like we need to speak more about how attachment theory is, uh, really all encompassing in our lives, even as our children’s parents. So oxytocin is the love hormone, which is essential for like bonding, but that’s not only bonding with our, our spouses or our partners, but also for our children to bond with us. So if you go and you spend on this money, on this amazing vacation, but you ruin the vacation by arguing or with screens, you may not be having this oxy oxytocin. Released and you’re like missing out on even the point of a family vacation is not just to do X, Y, and Z or to fill it with dopamine. Serotonin is the this, it really controls happiness and wellbeing, and it can change depending on concentration, daydreaming, but really where that releases is when trust is being built, safety is being built. Empathy is being shared. So we, if we think about how do we be the best parents we can be and raise amazing adults, we think about it. It’s, it’s in those, it’s in these moments. It’s in these moments. Whether you’re driving your kid to school and you just share a little. A little time of chit-chat or a little positive word. It’s when you grab your daughter by her shoulders and you look at her and you say, gosh, I just, I love you so much. You are so beautiful. You are my girl. It’s when you look your son in the eyes and you say, I just, I’m just so proud of the man that you are. And are becoming, it’s, it’s not only in those sweet special moments of Christmas when you’re sitting down and all is right in the world and all the presents have been open. You feel like, gosh, this is like a dream come true. But these moments, they can happen every day For us, we just have to slow down and realize, like, this is it like, This is like parenting is so temporary. It’s today our kids are only gonna be this age for one day. I even said that to my family just yesterday. It was yesterday and one of my daughters, my wife wanted to take a picture cuz we went to church. My wife wanted to take a picture and one of my daughters don’t blame her at all. She was hungry, you know, she was salty and she’s like giving my wife attitude about a picture. And she said, probably said something like, why we taking a picture? Right? You know, I, I could’ve let that push my button. I could have reacted, I could have scolded, I could’ve, you know, gone into, uh, you know, given some type of weird lecture or gotten weird on Easter. But I was, I wanted to be the adult in the relationship, and I just said to her, look sweetie, let’s just do this for mom. You guys are only gonna be this old today, so let’s just take a beautiful picture. Of course the pictures sucked because the sun was in our eyes and in I, uh, it didn’t work out. But who cares? That’s just part, that’s,  Brett Gilliland: That’s another story, right?  Sean Donohue: So, yeah. So, so yeah. So what, what, what I, what I, what I do for myself is, is I, this is so the first thing I do to myself, cuz you asked me what do you do? I’ve given you an example of what I do. I talk to myself. And this is how I talk to myself. And yeah, I can tell you stories about my self-care, checking my freaking puppy for a walk or walking down on the lakes. We live on a lake or, you know, watching the warriors in the playoffs or, uh, you know, going fishing, which is my jam or backpacking. But the, the number one thing we can do as parents, as business people is the art of mindset of learning to talk to ourselves in a healthy productive way.  Brett Gilliland: Hmm. That’s strong. Isn’t cause the, the negative self-talk is the complete opposite, obviously, but how damaging that can be.  Sean Donohue: Oh, we, we all know we could, you and I can nerd out right now. You want to share a co couple things and I’ll share a couple things. Let’s get vulnerable. What are some negative things that you say to yourself sometimes that sabotage, you know, your. Mindset and I’ll share some things after you.  Brett Gilliland: Well, there’s just even like little things like it could be, you know, my wife and I were joking about this yesterday is, is the, the place we were going to have food, uh, with everybody, family and stuff has not always been the best. It’s, it’s good, it’s it, it does the job and does all this stuff, but it’s the mindset of going into it. So I can focus on the bad fried chicken. Or I was able to focus on the wonderful breakfast that they have and the salad. Yeah, man. And so that, and that’s so stupid, right? But it’s true, right? That that can impact how my, that’s how in can impact my day on that. And, uh, it’s, it’s all about what we focus on.  Sean Donohue: Well, it’s actually, it’ll impact your parenting, right? Yeah. If you spend all this money and you focus on the crappy fried chicken, I think you said, or bad, whatever it was. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Sean Donohue: Yeah. That’s gonna, and then, and then if you, you know, and then that might even affect one of your kids, cuz they’re like, dad’s being, being moody or whatever, and then that’s gonna just set up a chain. Brett Gilliland: Right.  Sean Donohue: You know?  Brett Gilliland: Right. Yeah.  Sean Donohue: Yeah, I think that’s, you know, parents are teachers and every home’s a school, so we’re gonna teach our children the most important lessons in life. It’s not a school teacher’s job or principal’s job to teach our children these important things. And one of the things we want to teach them is that this person is allowed to have their feelings. It’ll be moody or to be negative, and that’s okay, but let’s not let that or what they’re going through. Make us, you know, go through something. And that is very challenging mindset right there. That’s a very challenging truth because what we have in a lot of families is this chain reaction where one person gets all butt hurt about something that’s, that, you know, you work with teenagers when you say butt hurt. Have you heard that term? I just, I really like that. Brett Gilliland: I have, yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s a good one.  Sean Donohue: Yeah, it’s a good. And then it just sets a chain reaction, and now you’re back in the car and it’s like, what the crap There goes the day. You know what I mean? Right. I mean, that’s just, that’s sad, right? Yeah. That’s why we want to be the adults in the relationship and not to be in a codependent relationship with a child. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Sean Donohue: Easier said and done.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. It made me think too about, I’m a big believer in having my kids, you know, go and do and create their own experiences, right? So California can be an experience since that’s new, but I also want my children to believe in themselves enough to go make things happen, right? Go create things like in business, in life. Things don’t just happen, right? You don’t just become successful as a, as a parent coach by sitting around and saying, I’m a parent coach and putting a TikTok video out. I mean, it’s the work, it’s the effort, it’s the grind, right? And then you become successful, but you made it happen. I’ve been successful by making it happen. And, and so, you know, the, it’s, it’s funny and how kids work, but they, they know about all about YouTube, right? So the two things that were mandatory when we went to California go to Dobriks. There’s a guy named David Dobrik, I guess, on social media, YouTube. Sean Donohue: Yeah he’s very famous.. Yeah. What is, well, what is Dobriks? I know about David Dobrik. He’s a huge YouTuber. What?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, so David Do Brick has his own pizza joint in, uh, in, on, uh, Sunset Boulevard in Cal, in LA and so we had to go there, right? We buy the cool hats like you guys wear there.  Sean Donohue: Oh, yeah. [inaudible] gotta get some swag. Yeah. If you’re gonna go there, yeah. Brett Gilliland: Get some swag. You know, that’s how David’s making probably millions off of YouTube and selling pizza. There’s damn good pizza, by the way. But then the other one was cool kicks, right? So this, this shoe store, uh, called Cool Kicks that my kids only know because of YouTube.  Sean Donohue: Oh, okay.  Brett Gilliland: We go, it’s where they sell overpriced Jordan’s, right? It’s, you know, there’s a 500 pairs of Jordan’s in there and you’ve gotta pay an Arm and leg for ’em. But anyway, um, my point to this is, is make things happen, right? My 15 year old walks up to the owner of the store. He’s on YouTube live Again, how they know about it while he is on YouTube live and says, Hey, why don’t we have a dunk contest? And if I win, I get a free pair of shoes. He’s like negotiating with the guy, right? And is so…  Sean Donohue: …a dunk. Did you say a dunk contest?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So they have a basketball hoop, like an eight and a half foot tall basketball hoop out in the, like in the lobby area that, you know, the big shoe store. The dudes like ask the people on the screen, right? And so next thing you know, my son’s holding court on their YouTube channel asking, and of course they do it. I’m not bragging about this. My point is creating opportunities, right? As parents, I think we have to teach our kids to go create opportunities. So he ends up shockingly getting beat in the last dunk, right outta three dunks, and he get 25% off his shoes in a free sweatshirt. The rest is history, but it was a cool experience and they think it’s the best thing of the whole vacation, right? But my point, that long story again, is creating experience, man, let the kids go fail on their own and get told no. Like, I don’t know if the guy was gonna say, this is the stupidest idea ever get off my show kid. But he loved it. Right?  Sean Donohue: What a great story. Let me, uh, you know, don’t, you know when you’re arguing with your wife or your spouse are, don’t psychoanalyze me. Uh, can I, can I, can I, in a positive way, can I psychoanalyze the story?  Brett Gilliland: Yes.  Sean Donohue: I mean, um, I love this story. That’s a five star story because this is, uh, that, that story could, I’m just psychoanalyzing you for fun. We’re just having fun here. It, it really says a lot about you and your wife. This is the type of man that you have raised. You have built a loving home where your kids love you, they trust you. They respect you. And so they care about your morals and they care about your lessons in life. And so, uh, and they, they see that in the you and they value it, right? And so they, uh, you have instilled this quality in him. And so this story is about him. But from an outsider’s point of view, it’s also just a great story and it’s a great success story for you Dad.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, thank you man. It was, it was cool. It was very cool. And, uh, but again, about creating experiences. I think you create your own future so that achieving a future greater than your past, we have to go create it ourselves. Sean Donohue: And here’s a, here’s a tip. Let’s all be like Brett. Uh, let me try to, um, let me try to expand on this teaching that just told us. I’ll just say the same thing Bretts did in a different way. So as parents, we want our kids to follow our rules. But we also want them to adopt our values. But they’re very different things, right? They’re very different. And the more you realize that they’re different, the better. The more you realize that there’s like maybe 20 rules for our kids to follow, but there’s probably 20,000 values. So Brett is talking about one of his values. Go out there and create your life. Be bold. You know, be adventurous. Don’t be afraid of rejection. Don’t be afraid of public embarrassment.  Brett Gilliland: Right.  Sean Donohue: You have been verbally and non-verbally teaching your sons that since they were in diapers. And look what you did. Now they could be like, oh, screw my dad. Oh my God, my dad, he’s such a lecturer. Gosh, my dad, this, my dad, gosh, all my dad cares about is making money. My dad is, so this, he’s on his podcast all the time. He talks more to the podcast people and he does us, all he does is come home and I, I give us lectures. That’s not what is happening here, right? Brett Gilliland: Right.  Sean Donohue: He’s, he’s, uh, he’s like becoming a chip off the old block because you’ve built a connected, attached relationship and now you’re seeing your values come to fruition, and that story is just one example of that story. So good job, dad.  Brett Gilliland: Well, thank you. And that’s not why I told the story, but it’s uh, I do appreciate that. It is, but it is, uh, it’s important to, I think for us as parents out there to go out there and, and have our kids let them go fail. Right? Let them go fail and that’s okay.  Sean Donohue: Failure beautiful. Failure beautiful especially when our kids fail and they know their parents aren’t gonna bail ’em out, but their parents aren’t gonna lecture them. They’re not gonna shame them. Like the world’s greatest coach, their coach is gonna be there.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Sean Donohue: Um, to give ’em a pat on the back, maybe give ’em a hug, maybe be that, uh, shoulder that they can cry on, and they look at me in the eye and say, I believe in you. I’m your biggest fan. Yeah. You got this. Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So let’s end it with this, uh, coach Sean Donohue. What’s, what’s the one thing if I followed you around, you know, as a parent, um, but I think it’s important for self-care for yourself. If I followed you around every day. With a camera for a week, what are the no miss items that I would see you doing to make sure you’re at your best? Sean Donohue: Oh, definitely. Uh, taking walks down to the lake is so key. Like if you, if you ask your local psychiatrist or therapist, they might say for you to get on some medication, everybody. But, uh, yeah, the, just, there’s, I just, uh, I, uh, I take walks to the lake. I played, uh, pickup hoops this morning at 5 45 in the morning. Nice. At my, uh, the local gym. I played pretty, pretty well. My game’s pretty decent. And, uh, and the, the number one thing I do is, but I’ve tried to model in this, in this, um, Episode Brett is everywhere we go, our mind goes with us. So you want to go on a Jamaican vacation, go for it. You wanna take walks to the lake every day? Do it. You wanna move to Florida for a better life? Do it. But everywhere you go, your thoughts are going with you.  Brett Gilliland: Amen.  Sean Donohue: So the most powerful voice in our life is our own voice. So how we talk to ourselves really matters. How we define success really matters. How we care for ourself really matters. So as we do this emotional work in parenting, as we try to regulate our emotions over a dirty cat box, we’ll or over a salty teenagers complaining on their vacation. Realize, you know, before you react, talk and be your own counselor, and, uh, care for yourself in excellent ways.  Brett Gilliland: Hmm. Strong. Very strong, my man. Where do our listeners find more of Sean Donohue? Where should we be sending them? We’ll put it all in the show notes here.  Sean Donohue: Yeah, thanks. Yeah. You can find me on social media as the family coach on YouTube. My new podcast is Sean Donohue Show Instagram, TikTok, or you go right to my website. We can get a whole bunch of free goodies and articles. Uh, and that’s parentingmodernteens.com.  Brett Gilliland: Parenting modern teens.com. Sean, it’s been awesome being with you today, my friend. And, uh, having spent, you know, hours with you, um, you’re making a huge impact in the world, brother, so I appreciate it. Sean Donohue: Hey, you’re making a huge impact in your world and, uh, some of that is through your business, Brett, but you’re changing the world to your parenting and these four boys you’re raising. So keep it up.  Brett Gilliland: All right, man. It’s great being with you today. Thanks a lot. All right, thanks.

Join us for a candid conversation with Ryan Lewendon, the lawyer who played a pivotal role in the BodyArmor acquisition. Ryan shares his experiences working with high-profile clients such as Kobe Bryant and Ryan Rapole. He provides an inside look at the legal and strategic considerations that go into his day-to-day business endeavors. Ryan offers valuable lessons for anyone interested in the world of start-up businesses. Listen as he shares his unique perspective and insight.  https://youtu.be/3bIo37aHUaU Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got Ryan Lewendon with me. Ryan, how you doing?  Ryan Lewendon: Great. I’m doing great, Brett. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.  Brett Gilliland: Absolutely, man. You’re coming to us from New York City today, is that correct?  Ryan Lewendon: That is right. I’m in, uh, Manhattan at my, uh, at my apartment, just, uh, Pump to pump to speak. Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Awesome, man. Well, I know you also have an office in California as well. Uh, Giannuzzi Lewendon Law Firm, uh, is a high growth food, beverage, and personal care industries is who you guys are serving. You guys founded it in 2011. Uh, you represent over a thousand consumer products. And here’s the one that my kids were excited about. I told you before we started recording. It says, uh, most notably Ryan represented Body Armor in Coca-Cola’s, largest ever brand acquisition with Coca-Cola, purchasing the remainder of Body Armor for 5.6 billion dollars at an enterprise value of 8 billion dollars man, talk about that a little bit, man. Cause that’s, that doesn’t just happen overnight. So that was a long journey, I’m sure, right?  Ryan Lewendon: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, my firm Giannuzzi Lewendon, we, we differentiate ourselves in really two ways. One, We’re contextual experts in consumer, right? So we only work with consumer brands. We only work on the brand side, and it’s all sort of everything topical or ingestible. So that’s food, that’s beverage, that’s spirits, that’s baby, that’s pet, that’s beauty, right? And um, I got into the industry through Vitamin Water. So my partner Nick, and I. We’re the first lawyers for Vitamin Water and we get everything for Vitamin Water from every min, every round of financing, every distribution agreement, manufacturing agreement, every celebrity partnership, 50 cents deal with Vitamin Water. We had his, uh, own flavor and equity in the brand was one of my first deals at a law school and Jennifer Anniston’s deal, which became, we went with Smartwater. That became one of the longest running CPG partnerships of all time. I think it went over 15 years after the sale to Coke, we did everything, uh, through the sale of Coke for 4.8 billion in 2007. Um, and from there we realized we had this great perspective on how to grow and scale a C P G business from the ground up. Right? Mo most lawyers kind of have this top down perspective on their clients. Like they know what the legal aspects are, but they don’t really know how or why the business is built or why it grows, or why the people in the industry are important or how they interlock. And because of our experience of Vitamin Water, we realized we had this great viewpoint on it and we realized that these, these entrepreneurs who were growing these fast businesses, um, it was very valuable to them. So, uh, you know, Nick and I sort of, Put a little end cap on the career. Um, you know, last year with, uh, the Body Armor deal. Um, that’s a company that I had worked with since, uh, 2011 when we started the firm. Um, you know, we left a bigger firm we were at and, and started this firm and, um, you know, it was, it was a great experience just from, you know, everything from, you know, the Kobe deal to the keurig Dr. Pepper deal to the Coke deal and, um, yeah, it, it, it was a, you know, it was a overnight success that, you know, happened over 10 years. Right. It, it was right. He was, you know, Mike Repole and, and the team. Um, and you know, Mike was also the, one of the co-founders of Vitamin Water, so we knew each other really well. And, um, just a, a great prolific entrepreneur who, you know, uh, one of his sayings is, success is best when shared. Right. And, um, you know, he’s someone that I would say kind of. Proliferated the, the, the, the tech concept and CPG of sort of like paying everyone in options and making sure everyone was sort of, you know, uh, an equity owner in the business. And, um, you know, we carried that over from Vitamin Water to Body Armor. And when that company sold, you know, like it made a couple billionaires, maybe like, I think maybe 10 or 2000 millionaires, but it made. Over 800 millionaires on that cap table.  Brett Gilliland: Wow.  Ryan Lewendon: And those were all, and those were all employees, right? They were all employees and former employees and service providers. And there was almost no private equity in that business. Whatsoever. It was all basically individuals on that cap table. Um, and so, you know, you just see the redistribution of wealth from that one deal was, uh, so immense and, and changed a lot of people’s lives. Brett Gilliland: Um, oh, for sure.  Ryan Lewendon: But really starts with, you know, someone who’s a phenomenal entrepreneur, who’s, you know, not willing, um, to, uh, you know, Keep it all to themselves or someone who wants to focus on sort of building a team and making sure that team’s incentivized and making sure that team is, um, you know, highly motivated. Right. And you know, by the way, I was a recipient of that generosity. Um, so, you know, I certainly really appreciate it and  Brett Gilliland: You’re like, we can’t afford your law bills, but we can give you some stock in the company. Right.  Ryan Lewendon: E Exactly, exactly. And um, um, just gimme one sec. Uh, yeah. And it was just, it was phenomenal. Brett Gilliland: That’s crazy. So, let’s talk a little bit about, if we can, before we, I wanna keep diving into some of that stuff and the learnings and all that, but tell us a little bit about your background. So like, you don’t, again, I always say you don’t just wake up and start doing this and representing 50 cent and Kobe Bryant and Generat Innocent, all these brands, all this stuff. Not representing them per se, but working with them. Um, what, what was your, your backstory there. What, what got you started?  Ryan Lewendon: Yeah. So, you know, I, um, I went to college in New Orleans at Tulane University and uh… Brett Gilliland: I was, sorry to interrupt, but I was gonna say we have that in common, the green wave.  Ryan Lewendon: Oh, I love that. Brett Gilliland: I didn’t go to Tulane, but my high school was, uh, Mattoon. GreenWave, which I think it’s the wind blowing through the corn. It’s very scary, very scary when you’re playing us.  Ryan Lewendon: I love that. Green Wave. All right.  Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Ryan Lewendon: Um, so I went to college down there. Uh, you know, I, I, I kind of studied molecular and cellular biology. I, I, I first wanted to be a surgeon. I realized that, um, You know, pretty early on that I don’t like dissecting people, so that was gonna be a somewhat of an impediment to continuing that.  Brett Gilliland: Right.  Ryan Lewendon: Um, uh, and then, you know, it’s sort of like I worked at a research lab in genetics and over a summer and I realized I wanted to do something a bit more, um, people facing. Right. Um, I wanted something where I interact with people a bit more. So, you know, around my, uh, senior year, I’d been working at a bar and I ended up running it. My senior year and a year after college and I was kind of trying to figure out, you know, what do you want to do? Um, and um, you know, while I was running the bar, I started to see how people’s sort of tastes were fragmenting, like, you know, um, people were coming in, they were like kind of. Wanting more Artisinal products. They wanted like an Abida amber instead of a Miller Light. And they were like asking for sort of like those smaller, more craft manufactured products. And you know, then there were kind of entrepreneurs were coming in and pitching their sort of craft spirits and stuff to me. And you know, then I would, um, Then I would have people, like people would be asking for it at the bar. And I, I, it kind of stuck with me how people’s tastes were changing in terms of what they were consuming. And they wanted sort of, you know, things that meant a little bit more to them. They wanted something that wasn’t really put out by, you know, a big conglomerate. And, um, I ended up going to law school. Um, you know, I wanted to maybe work in, um, You know, in the medical field somehow. And, um, you know, when I got outta law school on the corporate side, I, I basically got this job working, um, uh, for my, my now partner Nick, and you know, the Vitamin Water when like that was an early client that kind of stuck with me. I realized, oh yeah, this is something. You know, I’ve, I’ve seen a little bit, and this is something where people’s tastes are changing. So, you know, I lobbied to get myself on the account and, um, you know, working, working on the Vitamin Water stuff was basically my education. How to sort of scale and, and grow a cPG business. And um, you know, luckily after that sold, uh, Nick and I went to our, uh, our first trade show together. It was in Boston in 2008. It was Expo East, you know, and we kind of like, you know, had an idea like, Hey, maybe there’s more people who need this type of, you know, um, representation right need. Brett Gilliland: Right. Ryan Lewendon: Like a brand first representation or a founder first representation. And we walked that show and we were like, Hey, we’re lawyers. Does anyone need a lawyer? And uh, people were like, well, I’m not getting sued right now. And we’d be like, no, no, no. That’s not what we do. We help you like structure the company. We help you build your infrastructure. We help you do your rounds of financing. We help make sure your voice remains relevant in the boardroom as you add in all these different layers of, you know, uh, people and partners that have, you know, different sort of, um, uh, experiences and levels of success and make sure that you remain sort of that driving force in the company and people are like, oh yeah, wow. I need you, you know, I had like six employees. And now I have 68 employees and my lawyer’s like my uncle’s friend and they don’t know what a billback is and they don’t know what a distributor does. And I just need someone with a contextual basis in my industry. Right? And we left that show with like Vida Coco and Happy Baby Organic Baby Food and Hint Water and Pirate’s Booty and Pretzel Crisp, um, and Ziggy’s Yogurt. All his new clients, and they’re all companies that were like, Doing a couple million dollars in revenue at the time. And, um, they’re all companies that we subsequently help, you know, scale and sell for hundreds of millions of dollars each. Or, or in the case of like Vida Cook, we helped ’em go public two years ago for like a billion dollars. Right. And, and that sort of stretch I’d say was really our, our sort of, Education on how to scale and grow those CPG brands. And um, you know, from 2008 to 2011, we were working on that and it was 2011, Nick and I, you know, decided to leave the firm we were at and, and start this firm. You know, we moved down to like a little space in the meat packing with, you know, one of their lawyer, uh, his name’s Anthony Iuzzolilno, he’s one of our partners now. And, um, you know, we sat in an office, the three of us, for a couple weeks until. You know, we were tired of answering the phone ourselves and, you know, then we Right. I put it out on Craigslist and found a, a really, a really amazing office manager who, um, Really helped us out for those first years and, and helped us sort of get the office together. And we just built it from there, kind of like by, from scratch and, and by word of mouth and by, you know, executing for our clients. And, um, you know, we hired lawyers straight outta law school and trained them sort of in the, sort of like the way that we worked and, um, taught ’em about the industry and. Um, taught ’em how to sort of also be contextual experts and, and consumer and yeah, we built it, you know, we built it brick by brick from there. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, it’s amazing. I, I love that. And it’s reminds me a lot of our story too, of, of just leaving a big firm and starting your own deal and believing in yourself and, and really betting on yourself. Right. Cuz it’s scary and you think it’s gonna go right? And you’ve built the relationships, but you don’t really know, man. It’s just betting on yourself. So talk to us about those early days of your firm and then maybe even like the early days of this, even Pirate’s Booty, that stuff’s all over my house with the kids and, and, and Body Armor and all these companies. How are they doing that? Because like right now I want to go out and hire 10 more people, right? But there’s, there’s constraints to that stuff. So how do you do that? How do you find that when it’s a really all hands on deck when you’re building something early on?  Ryan Lewendon: Yeah. Well, I will say, look, I, I’d say, you know, the toughest year of the business was definitely the first year. Yeah. I, I don’t think I ever worked harder in my life, you know, just because you’re, you’re managing the work that’s coming in, but you’re also sort of like, you know, trying to pick out the chairs and what paint color do we want, and like, you’re setting all this stuff up and you don’t have the other hands to do it, you know? And so you’re, you’re, you’re doing all that and you’re also managing. Um, you know, getting the work done for the clients and, you know, the clients are a bit more demanding. They know, they know you’re a, a new firm. They know that. Brett Gilliland: Right?  Ryan Lewendon: You need the business. And so they’re a bit more demanding of your, of your time. And, um, the toughest part about that was not knowing if it was gonna work. You know, like the first year, you’re, you, you’re working as hard as you can. You’re trying as hard as you can and, and there’s no guarantee that. It’s gonna work out. Right, right. Or that you know, or that your thesis is, is gonna be correct. Um, and you know, like I’d say those couple years were, were especially the first year, you know, in terms of the hours I put in and the emotional sort of energy I put in, it was, it was, it was definitely the sort of toughest part. Um, you know, obviously when you start to see the sort of fruits of success, it’s a bun, it’s a lot easier to sort of keep putting in. Right. Brett Gilliland: Right. Ryan Lewendon: But it’s, it’s. It’s that first period where you’re not seeing the return on investment, uh, yet that, um, you know, c carrying forward is, is probably the hardest, but it’s also probably the most important, right? Like that’s what, you know, the ability to sort of, sort of get. You know, kind of escape gravity and start to take off. It’s, it’s the hardest part. Going from zero to, you know, a million or, or 3 million or 4 million in sales or revenues is, is oftentimes kind of across the board. The hardest, the hardest to do. Um, but, and it takes a certain amount of faith and conviction and just will to sort of push it forward in those earlier times. Um, and you know, I’d say that like, We worked until, you know, everybody was working until 11 or 12 at night. And then, you know, when you realized you were doing that for like a month, then you’d hire another person. Right. But the first couple hires we hired purely out of like critical mass. Right. And it was like, hey, you know, cuz, cuz especially in the earlier times, you don’t wanna hire somebody. And, you know, not have enough work for ’em or, or think, hey, this is a little blip and it’s gonna go away. But, you know, we, we would work. And, um, you know, when we realized that we were sort of at a, at a space where, you know, the work was steady and we were, and we were working too hard, we, we put another person in and then, You know, then we made it work. We made, we made sure to keep it, you know, busy enough. Um, and, uh, you know, being efficient in those, in those couple days, in those first couple years and the first couple hires is, um, is so critical to businesses. Right. And, and I think that, you know, a lot of people think, Hey, you’re gonna start a business and, and it’s gonna be, you know, it’s gonna be fun, which it is. Brett Gilliland: Right. Ryan Lewendon: But, you know, Nobody really prepares you for, especially if you’re coming from like a bigger place where you have a lot of infrastructure.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Ryan Lewendon: Nobody really prepares you for sort of doing everything, right, like answering the phone and you know, being the one to take out the garbage and, you know, being the one to grab the coffees in addition to sort of making the deals and all that type of stuff. But, you know, and I see that like what’s outside of my own experience with the firm, like, you know, I’ve, I’ve seen the, um, You know, the Pirates booties of the world and the Vidi Cocos of the world and you know, the Mary Ruth’s Organics of the world, you know, when they’re earlier on. And you know, I’ve had those relationships with those founders where, hey look, you know, you’re going through the bumps early and you know, you have the moments of, you know, you have those moments where you’re like, is this worth it? Is this gonna work out? And, um, you know, not necessarily seeing the on their side, but not necessarily seeing the light at the end of the tunnel yet. And then I’ve seen them, you know, Go past that and grow past that and, and, um, you know, create that goodwill and create that, you know, cr bring in the people, get the people to buy in, bring in the first couple hires, and create that bandwidth in the business. Um, you know, it’s, it’s really a, it’s really an amazing, beautiful thing, um, to see, you know, a founder and entrepreneur do those. It’s, it’s, it’s quite literally sort of creating the magic, you know, it’s creating, it’s creating something, you know, without throwing the money in on top of it and throwing, you know, throwing this sort of like, you know, the, the big infrastructure, the big sales pieces. It’s, you know, getting people to buy in and it’s, you know, getting the people to take a chance on you. You know, there’s nobody that’s been, I’ve seen be successful that didn’t have some period where someone took a chance on them, right? Like, whether it was a, a manufacturer who was like, I like your product and I’m gonna, you know, gonna take you on with, you know, low minimum order quantities. Or whether it was a retailer that’s like, Hey, you know what? We’re gonna stock this. You know? Hey, we’re, we’re Whole Foods regional. I like you. Yeah. We’re gonna put, we’re gonna put you in. You know, or whether it was, you know, a, um, an entrepreneur who, you know, met up with a, with a, with a celebrity who really liked the concept and said, Hey, we’re gonna launch this together and leverage their network to really bring it out to a wider audience. Um, there’s, there’s always some function of luck in success.  Brett Gilliland: Right, right.  Ryan Lewendon: Um, you know, and, and you know, obviously the adage that you create your own luck. It is very true. Right. And it’s, and it’s the people that are constantly working. You know, to make that, make that hopeful situation where, where the luck occurs, occurs, um, those are usually the people you see, see, get there. But there’s always like a, there’s always some turning point where someone just takes that leap and, and it’s the entrepreneur who gets ’em to do that.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, I think it’s their passion, right? And so, I mean, I, I, one of the questions I wrote down is, How, how have you aligned your passions with your work? Right. Because again, if you’re body armor and you’re gonna go talk to Kobe Bryant, I mean, Kobe Bryant’s not just gonna listen to anybody, and you gotta have some passion. You better have your dang story lined out and, and you better, better, uh, better have some great presentation skills. Right. So talk about those times with Kobe and then also talk about for your own time with how have you aligned your passions with your work? Ryan Lewendon: Yeah. I mean, you know, look, He partnered up with Body Armor, you know, in, in, in part for, for a number of reasons, right? One, he had a pa, he had a passion about, you know, a better product, right? And he also had a part, and he also had a passion about, you know, this is kind of like towards the later half of his career. He had a passion about becoming, you know, a businessman and, and yeah. And succeeding in the business world as much as he had in the, in the sports world. Right. And, um, you know, he found a great mentor in Mike Rapole there. And, you know, I, I would say that if it wasn’t for Mike and the relationship Mike had with Kobe, uh, Kobe probably would’ve done something else, right? Or he might not have partnered up. I mean, Kobe didn’t just. Kobe wasn’t an endorser of body armorer, he was an investor. You know, he, he invested 7 million dollars in the company, um, you know, for about a 15% stake. But, you know, he made more money on that investment than he did in his entire N B A career.  Brett Gilliland: Isn’t that the one where I read, sorry to interrupt, but I read when it happened. I mean, this was after he had passed obviously, that he made, didn’t he make like 700 million or something crazy like that? Off the, off the, the deal.  Ryan Lewendon: That’s right. That’s right. And you know, and it’s, and it’s, you know, and, and that’s something, look, Mike told him you’ll make more money on this than you, than you have at, you know, playing basketball those years and, and eventually when the company sold and, and look, it was, it was it. Kobe recognized Mike’s passion and his drive for, you know, disrupting the sports industry. He rec, he saw Mike’s vision, which was, which was an absolute, you know, He, Mike gave me one of the best presentations ever when he was really getting ramping up BodyArmor and he laid out, you know, exactly where the company would go and what he thought it would do the next couple years, and he laid out, you know, what the line extensions would look like, and he laid out. You know how he was gonna take shelf space from Powerade first, and then he was gonna take it from Gatorade, and why it would be easy to take Powerades shelf space now. And, um, you know, it, it’s not that everything happened exactly how he laid it out, but it was pretty darn close. And, you know, I will say that I say it on corner all the time now, especially in this climate. Right. With this type of economy, you need to have a great North star and you need to have a great vision. And the earlier that you can sort of put that together, the better because you know, I mean, Mike had a, a preeminent vision for BodyArmor. And that’s what allowed him to bring Kobe in. Cuz Kobe, I mean, Kobe saw the same presentation and Kobe told me a very similar thing. He’s like, I mean, it didn’t happen exactly how he said it, how Mike said it, but it happened pretty darn close. He had a, he had an absolute vision for the product and you know, the times where you could go, like in the mid 2010s where you could put a slap of business plan together. And just go out and raise money on that. That doesn’t exist anymore. Right. People need, or especially earlier stage, like the hardest time to raise money is this zero to 5 million in revenues, period. Where people are now. Yeah. Yeah. And like if you don’t have a great vision for the product, if you don’t have an idea about where you want it to go, If you don’t have like a villain that you’re like, you know, matching up against or trying to take down, you know, people aren’t gonna sign up like for your company at this stage. Like people are much more risk averse. So, you know, you gotta have that passion and you gotta have that sort of vision for a business these days, especially if you’re sort of in that, in that startup world. Um, more so than you needed to. Sort of 10 years ago or so. Right. Um, but you know, in terms of my passions, I mean, look, I, I love health and wellness. I mean, um, I, I, I ran track. Um, I love the products that I work with. I love entrepreneurship and, you know, if I didn’t love those things and I didn’t love the tactile nature of what I do and the fact that like, Did that you can help someone start a product that you believe in that’s better for, you know, people and to put that into the world and then to see it on, on shelves, right? Yeah. But I didn’t have, I wouldn’t be able, I wouldn’t have been able to put the hours in than I need to put in to grow my business the way I need to grow it. You know? And, and, and I would say to anyone who’s looking at doing anything similar, Today that, you know, you have to align your passions with your projects. You know, you have to align your passion with your work because, you know, it, it, it’s in, in an economy like this and you know, that’s uncertain and going in a recession and where people are sort of more fickle with the risks that they’re taking, you know, they’re, people are gonna be betting on. And people are gonna be working on with the passionate people, right? The people who, you know, are doing this for more than just a paycheck, right? They’re doing it for, you know, something else, right? They’re doing it for the personal reward. Um, it, it’s just, you know, I, I, I don’t think in today’s, today’s world where, you know, you’re start looking to start a business and it’s, and it’s clear that you’re only looking to do it, to be able to sell it in a couple years or whatnot. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Ryan Lewendon: You’re not gonna get the support behind you that you would be able to get in better times. Right?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Ryan Lewendon: You gotta be, you gotta be doing it for more than that.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. People wanna be around a brand, don’t they? I mean, they wanna be around something that they can, you know, have some legacy with, I think. Ryan Lewendon: Yeah. Yeah. And, and look, I think. You know, more than that, I think people are looking at brands and platforms as like, you know, they’re looking to get more out of that. They’re looking for them to stand for something. They’re looking for them to educate them on something to be a little bit more than just, a product, right? Like Yeah. You know, you look at, you look at brands, like you look at a Goop or you look at, uh, like An Honest Company or, you know, you look at, uh, am Amir Roots Organics, um, even like a Vital Proteins and you know, they, they, they stand for more than just the product, right? They’re like a longevity or their health and wellness. And you look at like how they’re getting the consumers and it’s because they’re putting out content and they’re educating people on, you know, how to be healthier or how to eat healthier.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Ryan Lewendon: Or, or they’re educating people on, Hey, look, the stuff that a lot of people are consuming their, their negative things about that. Um, and so like I do think today’s world. People are looking more for like platform type brands that can sort of mean a lot more for them, right? Um, just the way that we’re now consuming information. I think they’re looking like people don’t want mass market and info and they look at some of these like really passionate, more artisanal, unique brands as as good educators, um, as a, uh, in addition to, you know, product offerings.  Brett Gilliland: Right. So let’s talk about you, you mentioned this kind of briefly, you didn’t say these words, but I hear daily habits. So, um, if, if I followed you around every day and, and I see the things that you do, whether it’s personal, professional, whateverit is. What are those habits that are locked in for you that are happening every single day? Ryan Lewendon: Yeah, that’s a great question. Um, you know, my morning routine, um, you know, I I, I get up, I, you know, I stretch. I, you know, I have a, like a, a protein rich breakfast, and then, you know, I either work out in the morning or work out at night, but like, you know, there’s a, there’s a workout three to four times a week. Yeah. Um, you know, it’s, it’s. The habits of, especially at night, and then on the other end at night, it’s, you know, taking time and putting down the phone at some point. Um, and like taking a time to disconnect from, you know, the constant communication, right. Um, in a and to get an, and to get a night’s sleep, right? Like my habits on sleep, you know, are, have improved, you know. Like since my twenties exponentially, right? Yeah. Getting a good night’s sleep and getting a, a, a night of sleep that, like, you know, getting six, six to eight hours basically, uh, of good sleep is like preeminent in terms of functioning. Um, And, and then look in terms of like work, um, it’s, it’s organization. Um, it’s simply organization. Um, you know, I, I sort of, I, look, I’ve got a practice that’s very high volume. You know, we’ve got over, you know, 1500 companies that we work with in the consumer space and, you know, and of various sizes, right? Of companies are doing a billion dollars in revenue to hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue, and all the way down to someone who’s like kind of just starting a business and start, you know, have an idea in their head and, you know, they, they both require, you know, similar but different levels of attention and, and detail and time. Um, you know, and organizing my calendar and organizing my space and like being and sticking to that and organizing my time, um, you know, and, you know, being intentional with my time, right? Like, there are, there are endless opportunities to spend your time and the, and, you know, and, and allowing, you know, people well-intentioned or not to like encroach into that or to take over your time or to take more of your time than you can give at the, at the moment. Um, prohibits being efficient, right? Yeah. And, and my, my whole business is, is predicated on being very efficient. So being very organized and intentional at that time, uh, is something that, you know, and work I do sort of day in and day out. Yeah. And then lost is making time and making space for sort of like your loved ones and my girlfriend and my family and, um, you know, making sure that I’m carving out time every day to spend with her and with them and to speak with them and, you know, um, on a regular, regular basis. And just to kind of stay grounded with those people that you love and are important. Um, and to not let sort of like the, you know, the, the daily busyness, um, take that away.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Which is hard to do, especially like you said with these phones, man, you gotta put ’em down at night every single night. And I’m a big believer, shameless plug here, but I’ve got a journal, I’ve just put it on Amazon. Uh, this has been, you know, 22 years in the making and it’s everything I do in one spot and it’s, it’s like been a game changer for me as I’ve been testing over the last year and a half. And now to finally have it go live, but what is it for you that you use that is like, if I see you around again, I could probably grab it. Like, for me it’s these black journals I have everywhere that I’m writing stuff down. What is it for you that I would, uh, if I steal it from you, man, you’re not gonna be happy.  Ryan Lewendon: It’s my right there. So, yeah, look, I mean, everything is organized in my Outlook calendar and then in my Notes app. Yeah. Um, on that phone. You know, I, I, I, uh, I’ve got two phones, you know, that’s like my work phone, that’s my work calendar. Um, yeah. And, uh, you know, everything’s in the calendar. Everything my whole day’s in there. Um, You know, and my whole life is in there. Um, and, uh, you know, anything I gotta follow up on is in my notes app. Um, so it’s all digital, but it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s similar. It seems like a similar sort of, uh, vein. As with the journal, um, and you know, if I don’t have that phone on me, I, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t commit to planning anything. Brett Gilliland: Start to freak out.  Ryan Lewendon: Cause I don’t, well, I’m just like, Hey, I gotta, I don’t have my work phone on me, so I don’t know what, what dates I’m free. It’s just all in there. Um, but… Brett Gilliland: So let me ask you that. Do you do that? Do you leave the work phone at home? If you’re gonna go out maybe socially on the weekends or something like that, and then, and then only take your personal phone.  Ryan Lewendon: It depends. It depends, but, but it’s, it’s a good way of disconnecting when I want or need to do that. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Ryan Lewendon: Um, you know, it is, it depends on, look, it depends on the time. It depends on whether I feel I need to disconnect. It depends on the deals I’m working on, you know?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Ryan Lewendon: Something. Right at the moment, are we, are we close to the cusp of it? Can I afford to not, you know, be reachable for in a couple hours? But you know, the good thing about having the two phones is you can leave that one. And you can discount from that. Um, and you can go, you know, take a walk with Jessica and like, you know, just. Just have that space in your life. Yeah. Um, so, you know, it’s a little bit more laborious, carrying around two phones, but, um, you know, it does. Brett Gilliland: Price you pay, right. Ryan Lewendon: It does provide for that. Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: So this, uh, sticker here means future greater than your past. That’s it’s our firm’s mission. It’s our, my personal mission as well is achieving a future greater than your past. Again, I always say this doesn’t mean you had a terrible past, but when you hear that, what comes to mind for you, for your firm, for your clients, a future greater than your past? Ryan Lewendon: Future greater than your past. Yeah. I love that. Um, yeah, I mean, look, that, that’s, that’s what I work for every day, you know, it’s continual improvement and it’s, you know, I, I would say that I live by something similar. Um, you know, it, I think that, to me that means consistency, right? The, to me, the way to build a future that’s greater than your past. Is to be consistent, right? And whether that’s, you know, being consistent with your workouts, even when you’re tight on time, whether it means being consistent about showing up, right? Like, you know, I’d say so much about my business in terms of the business development is just showing up, like show up to the trade show, you know, show up to Expo West every year, you know, no matter what’s going on, show up, spend the time, invest it with the community, right? Um, you know, show up to, you know, the, the, the gathering in New York on Wednesday night. Um, you know, even though. You know, you’d rather have a night in right? Or you, or you feel like you’re having a night in, just show up. Um, and be consistent about that. Right? Like, and, um, you know, it, it’s, I would say consistency for me is how you keep building, right? And how you build something great. Um, and I would say that, um, um, in terms of like, uh, my clients, that seems to be the same thing, right? Like, Building a seat a consumer products brand is about being consistent. Putting yourself out there, maintaining, getting through the sort of the, the, the hard times, right? Just continuing to show up, continuing to put your product there, having a great vision for where you’re going, but putting in that day-to-day work and building that sort of business brick by brick. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, that’s great. What, um, how do you keep it going? Man, there’s, there’s plenty of people out there and, you know, the, the business I’m in, I’ve, I’ve seen people that have, you know, enough money, they could be done tomorrow, right? They can turn the keys in and be done, uh, but they choose not to. Uh, so I’m always, I, I’m always fascinated by this, you know, it’s pur purpose and passion, right? Uh, but for you, what is it? Why do you keep it going and what’s the story behind that?  Ryan Lewendon: Yeah, I mean, uh, it’s, it’s for a lot of reasons. One, you know, uh, I love what I do. I love the industry. I love being part of it. Um, I would say like, my life for better or for worse is like, so inextricably linked to this community of, of, of consumer products. Like, you know, a lot of my best friends are in the community. They’re my clients, they’re companies, they’re service providers. Um, you know, I, I am. I’m, so I interact face with it. Like, you know, when I’m not working and when I am working.  Brett Gilliland: Even for fun.  Ryan Lewendon: Even for fun, right. Yeah. And, um, you know, like that, I, I’m good with that because I love it and I love the, like the people in the community I love, and it’s just, I, it’s just a warm, embracing place. So one, you know, finding a place where your passions intersect with your, with your projects and your work. I is it, um, but look, my value systems are, you know, I, it’s not just my personal situation, but it’s also the commitment I’ve made to the people I’ve hired in the firm. And it’s about creating something that’s, you know, lasting for them and it’s creating a, uh, an opportunity for them to move up in the firm and become partners and become equity partners and have an opportunity to participate, you know, even in a greater sense with, with that wealth and, you know, creating a, a legacy that, you know, uh, maintains itself in consumer goods and. And, and the help that we’ve been able to put there.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Ryan Lewendon: So, um, you know, and, and it’s fun man. It’s, it’s fun like, you know, the, the work I do like working with these entrepreneurs and. You know, helping them strategize and, and sort of, you know, beat the odds and change the industry and change the game. I mean, it’s always evolving, right? Like the next disruptive product is, is coming at the, trying to change the industry in another way. So, you know, it’s not repetitive, it’s always changing. It’s always, it’s always challenging. Um, and, um, you know, it’s just, it’s just fun.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And, and you say that it’s one of the six, I have six Fs I talk about all the time is your faith, your family, your fitness, your fun right, your firm and your finances and, and I think, man, if I can’t have fun walking around here every day, you know, doing what I do and having fun with my clients, why in the hell are you doing it? Right? Change it up, man. So those people that are listening, if you’re not having fun, figure out how to have fun. And, uh, you can do that and, and work all at the same time.  Ryan Lewendon: Yeah. And, and look, I’d say like part of that, um, is like aligned with being who you are, right? Being your authentic self. Like if you can be the person you are when you’re off work the same as you’re on work and like you can sort of express yourself and you’re not sort of like, you’re not putting on a front and you’re not putting on a mask and you’re not, you’re not changing your, your personality or proclivities for what you’re doing in the business world. Um, it’s much more effortless. Right. And I, and I’d say in today’s world where like everyone’s a bit more educated on each other, and everyone’s a content consumer. Like people wanna know who the person they’re working with is. Right?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Ryan Lewendon: They want to know more than what they’ve done. They wanna know who they are, they wanna know what they’re into. They wanna know what their value system is, right?  Brett Gilliland: That’s right.  Ryan Lewendon: And and more often than not, they want someone who’s living what they’re working with, right? They want someone who’s actually consumer of the products that they represent.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Ryan Lewendon: Or actually as a belief system that aligns with the products they’re working with or, or things they’re working with. Um, so, and, and I feel I’ve been able to do that in my job. You know, I feel like that this industry and just who I am, um, and what I do in my work is, has been able to align pretty effortlessly. So, um, if you can find a way to do that, I think like the rest of the things that, you know, always work for every single person. Um, is a lot easier to achieve.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I mean, and again, this isn’t, and you’ve said it without saying it, but the, the clarity and the vision and the passion, I think are the three things. I mean, you’re working with these brands that are literally changing the world and their industry, but clarity of their vision and their passion is what works. And that’s what we gotta do every day. Every single day.  Ryan Lewendon: Totally agree  Brett Gilliland: So, this is a fun one. I’ve been doing the last few guests. Uh, I’m gonna have you pick a number between one and 10. I’m on your Instagram, so, uh, We’re gonna, so one through 10, pick a number.  Ryan Lewendon: Uh, seven.  Brett Gilliland: All right. And then one through three. Pick a number.  Ryan Lewendon: Uh, two.  Brett Gilliland: All right. So two. This was a post. It says Early morning, run through the center of the universe. It’s got a picture looks like of you and downtown New York, maybe down there. So, so let’s talk about that, man. Randomly just picking pictures on somebody’s Instagram page. Talk to me about that. Why did that post hit you? Why did you share it with the world? Ryan Lewendon: Oh man. I think at the time, you know, I love, uh, first of all, I love New York City. I’ve lived here since 2004. Um, you know, and, and I live downtown and, um, I’m in soho and our offices in the meat packing. And, um, and you know, like many people live downtown. I’m sort of in my little microcosm down there.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Ryan Lewendon: But, um, but I was, uh, I was up in Times Square and like, you know, Sometimes even as a New Yorker since 2004, you, you stop for a moment and you look and you see like the awe of New York and how inspiring it is. And even like Times Square is this, is this, there’s some beauty to it and it’s size and it’s scale and the people, and I remember running through there and I, I think I stopped at a stoplight and that, and I, I just, Saw that and I saw the people and the, and, and you know, the sun was kind of setting and I was just, I just fell in love with New York again, you know, and, and, and every New Yorker has those moments where you’ve been in New York and your head’s down and, and you’re working and you’re moving fast. Every once in a while you pick your head up and you, and you, and you look around you and you feel why you love New York City. And, and that’s what. That’s what did it right there. And, and, um, yeah, that was a good moment. Brett Gilliland: I love that man. And you could see your passion. I mean, you, you lit up, man. You’re, you’re smiling, you’re, you’re fired up about it. And then that’s, uh, that’s cool. I’m, I’m glad I asked that. So let me, let me ask you another question, and this is, um, I’m always curious about this. I’ve never asked this, so I’m gonna ask him, be very vulnerable about it, but. We, you, we don’t know each other, right? We don’t have a relationship. Uh, I randomly reach out to you. I, I can’t even remember if it’s through Instagram or LinkedIn, but we got connected. Um, I see your story. It’s amazing. You’ve got 1500 companies you said you represent. Why in the hell are you spending time with me and our listeners and giving of your time and doing that and sharing your story?  Ryan Lewendon: Yeah, that, that’s a great question. Well, well first I think what you’re doing on the podcast is great. When I reached out, I saw it. I thought it was really cool. But it’s kind of what I alluded to before. It’s, it’s just about showing up, you know? I mean, yeah. Um, like you said, we don’t know each other. We hadn’t really met before. You’re someone I don’t have a relationship with yet. Um, and. You know, and you, and you probably have a viewer base that I, that I haven’t met yet, and it’s just continuing to expose yourself and connect with new people, right? Like, you know, I worked in this consumer good space, which is a relatively small industry, and, um, it’s very easy if you don’t continue to step outside yourself and outside your current circles. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Ryan Lewendon: You find yourself in like echo chambers. So I’m always trying, I’m always trying to step outside that and to meet new people and to meet new groups, um, and to continuously, you know, not be in situations where you’re imminently comfortable because you’re, you’re, you’re known and you know everyone. Right? I love being in, I love being in rooms where I don’t know everyone or I don’t know anyone. Right. And I love, you know, the opportunity to learn more about people and to learn more about new groups and new experiences, new instances. And I think that’s the way you grow, right? I think if you don’t do that, you start to sort of stagnate. Or you start to be around the same people with all the same ideas. Um, you, you, you really run the risk of missing something good.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s in line with what I, so I’m 45, but when I turned 40, I wrote down my 40 things I’d learned in business and one of ’em was, take the lunch. Right? Just take the lunch. You never know. I mean, how many times have you been called? I get this next idea. Right? And they wanna take this big shot guy, he’s helped all these people and, but you never know, man. You take the lunch. And sometimes nothing happens, right? Sometimes you take the lunch and you sell a deal for $8 billion, right? Whatever. Uh, but you gotta take the lunch and you gotta show up as what you said. So I love it. Where do our listeners find more of, uh, of you, Ryan? Where do, where do we send people?  Ryan Lewendon: Yeah, well, well, you’re just on my Instagram, my Instagram’s, uh, just Ryan Lewendon, r y a n l e w e n d o n. Uh, our firm’s website is, uh, www.gllaw.us and my email is Ryan, r y a n at gl law.us (ryan@gllaw.us). Feel free to, uh, email me or hit me up on LinkedIn. Um,  Brett Gilliland: Awesome.  Ryan Lewendon: I need the both, but you know, always happy to sort of speak to new people and uh, and get connected.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome man. Well, thanks Ryan for being with us. What a ton of takeaways from me, man. I got a couple pages of notes here, so I appreciate your time and joining me on the Circuit of Success. Ryan Lewendon: Thanks so much. I had a great time. Appreciate it.

Julie Hruska is a successful businesswoman and a dedicated mother to three. Her experience as a successful entrepreneur and coach offers valuable insight and actionable advice for anyone seeking clarity and action toward their goals! Julie discusses her latest project, a TV show called “The Next Level with Julie Hruska,” where she interviews successful people and gathers advice for anyone seeking it. In this episode, Julie Hruska provides practical tips and strategies to help you achieve your goals and reach new heights both professionally and personally. https://youtu.be/xKjgZ5NRMBs   Brett Gilliland: I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got Julie Hruska with me. Julie, how you doing?  Julie Hruska: I’m awesome. Thank you so much for having me today, Brett.  Brett Gilliland: Well, we are happy to have you. You’re in beautiful Asheville, North Carolina. I love that place.  Julie Hruska: It is so pretty here. I actually grew up in the Midwest where you’re at and, um, I didn’t like the cold winters, so I came south. I didn’t quite get far enough south to avoid winter, but it’s, it’s beautiful here.  Brett Gilliland: Yes it is. We went there, uh, I guess maybe two summers ago on a family vacation. My wife, who’s also named Julie and, and, uh, our four boys and so little Biltmore mansion, if everybody’s not been out there, it’s such an awesome place, a great part of the country. Julie Hruska: Yeah, it, it’s amazing. There’s so much to do in the outdoors, and we do have the best of all worlds. And we’re not too far from the beach too, which is like my favorite place.  Brett Gilliland: That’s, that’s right. Well, uh, Julie, if you can, um, we’ll, we’ll dive into what you do for a living and all that kind of stuff, but you are a high performance, uh, strategist, uh, certified high performance coach, speaker, trainer. I know you got a TV show coming out called The Next Level. You’ve got some group coaching called Next Level as well. Um, but before we dive into that kind of stuff, can you just maybe give us a little lay of the land on what’s made you, the woman you are today?  Julie Hruska: Oh, wow. That’s, that’s such a complex question. Right. So I grew up in the Midwest, um, in a very traditional conservative Christian family. Um, I was very much raised to become a wife and mother, and so I lived out that path. I got married at 20. Um, started having kids in my early twenties. I have three beautiful kids, so they’re the blessing of that part of my story. But, um, as I went through that life, I started to realize that I was losing my identity. I was very unhappy. I was very anxious. And, um, my oldest son is severely dyslexic and so he needed to go to a special. That was quite expensive. So I looked at going back to work and I’d been out of work, um, for a while, staying at home with my kids. So when I went back to get my master’s degree, there was a program, um, out in Colorado Springs, Colorado for brain-based gender differences. Um, I was a educator at the time, so when I went out there for the first time in over a decade, People were calling my name, they were asking my opinion. I was no longer Ethan, Erin, and Sidney’s mom. I actually had a name. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Julie Hruska: Which seems foreign to a lot of people who haven’t been through it, but for me, I really lost a sense of self. And so in that moment, it was like an asteroid literally hit me in the head and woke me up. And the wool came off my eyes and I realized all of the things that weren’t working in my life and very much that I had adopted my parents’ belief of what life should be and not my own. Brett Gilliland: Mm-hmm.  Julie Hruska: Um, so unfortunately, um, when you have that kind of awakening experience, some people celebrate that, but for me it was terrifying. Because I realized I was in my early thirties and I had followed someone else’s path. And the unraveling of that, the really stripping things down and looking at who I am and why I was created and what my purposes in the world was very challenging. I had to face the fact that my marriage was toxic. Um, there were a lot of unhealthy patterns that were affecting my children, so I ended up getting divorced. I ended up with full custody of my oldest son, primary of my younger two. And um, then kind of had to go from there. At the time I was teaching kindergarten and um, for anybody that knows about education in this country, you really can’t support a family of four on a kindergarten salary. So that started my move into, I’m a teacher. What else can I teach? And, um, from there I actually got into teaching power yoga because of the mindset and empowerment that I found during my divorce and during the process of recreating my life. And as soon as I quit my salary job to teach yoga full-time, I realized that yoga was just one of the tools. For being your best self. And really it was the deeper issues. It was looking at what really holds people back. It’s not that you can just take the messy. Kind of chaos of a person’s life and pile on these great tools, you have to start over. You have to build a foundation. And so I realized that I needed to do advanced studies. I got my certified high performance coach training. I went beyond that, um, and did some mindfulness, some psychology, CMEs, and really, Got to the point where I could help people dive into the root causes of their challenges.  Brett Gilliland: Hmm. Yeah, I think that’s the biggest part of it, isn’t it? I mean, we can do all these things, but if we don’t dive into what the issue is, it’s uh, we’re just putting band-aids on it, right? Julie Hruska: Right. And, and as you know, it’s like that bucket. You plug one hole and then another one spouts out. So same, like I was saying, with the foundation, you have to really like demolish the old. A lot of times it takes that some people have a good foundation already and can build upon, but a lot of times you have to go in and just really excavate all of those limiting beliefs, all of the things that hold you back, and then start over and create that firm foundation with clarity, courage, energy, productivity mindset mastery. I could, this is, this is the stuff that I’m really passionate about because it does help people change their lives, both personally and professionally. Brett Gilliland: Yep. So let’s talk about that. Let’s, let’s dig a little deeper. So you said one of the tools was yoga is what you found. And so, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m picturing or trying to paint a picture here of this toolbox, right. And we’ve got Julie’s toolbox over here to the side of you. And you, you open it up and, and you’re gonna need a different tool for every different project that you go work on, right? So if you had to fill up your toolbox, if you will, with uh, all these tools, and you’re gonna go to the hardware store now and you’re gonna go buy these tools, what, what are the tools we’re putting in there? What, what’s, what’s going in there besides the yoga?  Julie Hruska: So yoga doesn’t have to be, I used to, when I started, when I shifted from doing yoga, mindfulness, and meditation and health and wellness coaching to high performance, people were completely freaked out. They’re like, are you gonna make me do yoga? I’m like, no. Brett Gilliland: No. Julie Hruska: You don’t have to do yoga to live your best life. But health and wellness is a tool. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Julie Hruska: You, you have to make sure that you have some great forms of exercise in your tool. The nutrition, the hydration, the sleep. Those are the basics that sometimes we don’t think about when we’re facing challenges or when we’re hitting a wall in our lives. So those basics are really important, and then you get to your mindset. And examining the things that really hold people back. Those limiting beliefs, that fear of failure, the BS excuses and stories that we tell ourself that maybe started in childhood, that you’re not good enough, that you’re not capable, and we just repeat them and we look for other examples of how that’s true. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Julie Hruska: To hold ourselves back, but oftentimes it’s subconscious, so you have to get in there and you have to do the work.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, and I think coaching too. And, and, um, you know, you obviously have your next level coaching program, but coaching is so important with that. And, and if you think of the best athletes in the world, just, just think of sports, they all have coaches, right? Tiger Woods had a swing coach in his prime and. Justin Thomas has a swing coach, a nutritionist, and all these people, right? And, and so Michael Phelps, I mean everybody. And, and so for you, what are you finding that the people that do hire a coach, where are you starting with them and how do you go through that process to find that That kinda what I would call the Pandora’s box, that everybody’s got stored inside. Julie Hruska: Yeah, that, that’s a really great question, Brett. So what I do with my clients is we really dive in 75 to 90 minute with my one-on-one clients, um, individual SE session where we look at career relationships, health and finance. And we determine where they’re functioning at, their optimal levels and where they’re not. Because you have to look at yourself really clearly in the mirror. You have to have that real and raw conversation to say, you know, honestly, when I pull it all back, when I take off the mask and the facades, here’s what’s working in my life and here’s what’s not. And then we take the things that aren’t working, and create a plan to optimize their lives.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. And the planning is huge, but let’s go back to that toolbox cuz um, I like to skip around and keep going on conversations where whoever’s popping through my, my brain here. Um, but when you, when you look at those tools in the toolbox, so hydration, sleep, exercise, um, you know, those are just three of the ones that you mentioned. Julie Hruska: Right? Brett Gilliland: Do you, if, if I followed you around, you know, with the camera for the, you know, for the next week, what am I gonna find that are no miss items for you? Like what, what’s happening to you?  Julie Hruska: Um, ooh, daily. That’s really good because those are just like the basics and then you have to pile on the clarity, your mindset mastery, um, your energy, all of those things. Vision is really big there. Um, so if we were following me around every day, what’s a non-negotiable, hydration exercise, um, clarity. I am very big on clarity. I believe it’s the foundation of all success, and so I like to end my day by looking ahead at the next day and the rest of the week and make sure that my priorities are aligned. So when I wake up, I know exactly what I’m doing. I don’t just wake up and go, well, you know, let’s, let me check my email. Right, right. Because an email is a convenient organizing system for other people’s priorities.  Brett Gilliland: Yep.  Julie Hruska: And in fact, if you wake up and you check your email right there, you’re losing 30% of your productivity. Right there, because you’re taking your energy that should be intentional and you’re giving it away.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And this is my shameless plug here. I’ve never, I haven’t announced this on a podcast yet, but I created my own, uh, my own journal. Julie Hruska: That’s fantastic.  Brett Gilliland: And it’s got the not for sale yet because, uh, but it’s now officially on Amazon. You can type in achieving your future greater than your past, or My name, Brett Gililand, and buy the Journal. For those interested, they hear me talk about it all the time, but, but my point is, is that I, I call it focus 90, right? And so it’s how do I spend the next 90 or the first 90 minutes of my day on my 90 day goals? So 90 minutes, what are my goals for the next 90 days? And I can only spend time on those goals and that first 90 minutes. Because what I found is when I do that, I win the day. Right? If I can win the morning, I win the day.  Julie Hruska: Absolutely. Brett Gilliland: You talk about clarity. I always said I read this in a book years ago, clarity proceeds mastery. Right?  Julie Hruska: Mm-hmm.  Brett Gilliland: So if I wanna master something, I have to be very, very clear on where I’m going and why I’m going there. So when you hear me say that focus 90 first 90 minutes of the day, what comes to mind for you?  Julie Hruska: Um, productivity and the time blocks that I have my clients, um, add to their lives. So yeah, we have three priorities every day. Three main needle moving priorities. Um, depending on what industry you’re in, those could be projects that you have for work. Um, they could be an assortment of things. For me, it might be preparation for my clients.  Brett Gilliland: Mm-hmm.  Julie Hruska: Client calls, um, those things. So whatever they are, you have your three priorities. And then the way that I do it, and you can do it differently, if you were doing 90 minutes, you’d have three 30 minute blocks. But you would actually have to go to 25 minute blocks because you have to reset in between. Brett Gilliland: Right. Julie Hruska: So with 90 minutes, I tend to do it with three hours. It’s a little longer, but it’s your first priorities. Those three needle movers have 50 minutes to an hour of time for your situation. If it was 90 minutes right, you’d have 25 minutes per priority, and then you know that you’re moving the needle forward. So it’s constantly focused on action. Action is the key, and so many coaches, this is why the word coach is sometimes frustrating. It’s gotten really watered down. So many coaches talk and talk and talk, but for high performance, it’s all about action. It’s, here’s a tool for organizing your day, like your planner, or like the method that I use for productivity. I have a productivity like one page planner that my clients use, and it’s all about, here’s the focus, action. Focus, action, focus, action, clarity, productivity.  Brett Gilliland: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think again, that, that what comes to my mind is there’s a plan, right? And there’s a discipline process for the plan. And, and people, again, hear me talk about this stuff, but it’s, you don’t brush your teeth 14 times on Sunday, right? You, you brush ’em twice a day, minimally, right? It’s twice a day, minimally, and it’s showing up every day. And I think that’s about life. Julie Hruska: I’ve never heard that and I absolutely love it. I feel like my teenage son could use some of that. It’s like, you know, you don’t wait until like your whole room is smelly to go take a shower.  Brett Gilliland: That’s correct. That’s.  Julie Hruska: And you probably know that with your four boys, right?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah, exactly. It’s like, why does the room look like this? This is crazy. But it’s true, right? And, and so many times I think the, the daily habit of showing up and, and it’s like investing money, you know, you invest money. A dollar today doesn’t just automatically turn into a dollar a $2 tomorrow, right? Julie Hruska: No.  Brett Gilliland: You’ve gotta do it over time. And I think when people are, you know, driving down the road listening, It’s showing up today and making that one choice. Control the controllable, make that one choice if it’s eating, like today for me, is always a discipline. I, I love french fries, but it was a choice to have a salad with my food today, right? And, and I think those things have to happen for us daily. So, so again, back to that clarity. How do you find clarity in your life? Um, so then you know what you’re looking at every single day.  Julie Hruska: Right. So I wanna go back real quick to discipline and high performance habits, and then we’ll get to clarity. Brett Gilliland: Yes.  Julie Hruska: So what you were saying speaks right to what I do. It’s about developing high performance habits that move the needle forward. So like you were saying, with a journal or productivity planner, it’s, this is what you do and you wake up every workday and you do that. Some people do it seven days a week and, and I actually encourage my clients to have some equanimity in their life to actually schedule their family time. Their date nights with their partner to actually schedule that in, because if it’s not on the schedule, it tends to get pushed back. So those are important things. For clarity, I like to start every day with an intention. What’s my intention for the day and what I do personally, um, and with my clients, because integrity is really important. I think I, it’s my job to lead the way and serve as a role model for others. Um, so what I do is I start my day with three words. Three words that define who I am and how I wanna show up in the world. And from there then I look at the, the task, the productivity plan. Um, for me right now, I get up and take my son to school first, and then I come back and do this. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Julie Hruska: Um, because I, I’m a night owl, so, you know, they’re all of these high performance people that are like, get up at 5:00 AM. Well, you have to do what works for you. Yeah, and there is no cookie cutter recipe. I know that all of the gurus out there would love you to buy their books and their programs, but the reason there’s such a high failure rate is because it’s not customized. Brett Gilliland: Yep. Julie Hruska: It’s one of the reasons that I’ve been doing customized one-on-one coaching for most of my career, because when it’s customized, it’s more effective. So you have to find what works for you. But whenever you wake up and whenever you start your official day, it’s about setting an intention. And creating a plan that has, that’s followed with action. Brett Gilliland: Yep. It’s, I love hearing you say that too, because I, I was the guy early in my career too, when I, I’m not, I’m a night owl as well, and my wife is, my kids are, and, and so getting up for me at, you know, five o’clock in the morning is brutal, you know?  Julie Hruska: Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: And, um, But I, but then I would beat myself up over it, right? And then I’m like, all right, I’m gonna do it. And then I would do it for a week or a week and a half, and then I’m just like, you know, my eyeballs are bleeding I was so tired and, and it’s like, well, this sucks and it wasn’t sustainable. And I think over time you collectively have to find out what does work for you, right? Julie Hruska: Right  Brett Gilliland: Because the 5:00 AM thing doesn’t work for me, but I can get up at six and I can do it. And that’s, that’s fine. And I can come back to it after the kids stuff, uh, you know, once you get the kids to school and everything. So I think it’s perfect. I think we’re, we’re very much in line. And, and you keep you and go back to your other one that you were gonna talk about as well. Julie Hruska: Um, so with clarity, you know, um, Is that what you want me to go back to?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah.  Julie Hruska: So with clarity, it’s also about aligning everything you do with your overall vision of the life you want, and is this action taking you closer to the life you want or moving you further away? And when you look at everything through that filter, it’s very easy to say absolutely yes or absolutely no. Brett Gilliland: You’d rather say, what was the book? I can’t remember what it was, but one book I read, it’s either Gotta Be a Hell Yes or a Hell No. Right? There’s no in between.  Julie Hruska: Yes, I didn’t know if I was allowed to use that language on your podcast so. Brett Gilliland: You can do whatever you want.  Julie Hruska: Cause I’ve actually heard, am I allowed to use it? Brett Gilliland: Yes you can. Yes, absolutely.  Julie Hruska: No, I actually say it’s a fuck yes or a hell no. Brett Gilliland: I like it. I like it.  Julie Hruska: Cause that’s like really feeling it, right? That’s that passion. And you want passion. If you’re not passionate about what you’re doing, do something else. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Julie Hruska: Because that’s sustainability. That discipline comes in. Like if you hate your job, It’s gonna be really hard to maintain the high performance habits of having the discipline to get up to create your productivity planner to work every day toward the goals. If you don’t feel aligned and congruent with that, you’re setting yourself up for failure.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. I agree. So do you have like a scorecard or like how do you know it’s working? Is it just based off of feeling, or do you have something where you kinda slow down and help yourself through that?  Julie Hruska: Um, personally I have the way that the, um, high performance program is set up, there are definitely ways that you can check in with yourself, but I look at it as progress. So I’m very task oriented. If I have my productivity planner, I have three major projects. Each project or task has to-dos underneath. So I very much like to print it out, check it off. So that’s how I personally measure progress. Of course, there’s the greater. Like looking at the entirety of the end of the week, how am I doing? Am I living aligned and congruent with the best within me? Am I completing the task that move the needle forward so I can create, you know, an empowering experience for my clients, create financial abundance for my children and support them in their dreams and, and ultimately from a personal level.  Am I feeling good? Am I thriving? Do I have that energy and that excitement about life? Because this really is it, right. You get one life. That’s my personal belief. And so with that life, if you’re not passionate and happy and fulfilled by what you’re doing, you have to ask yourself why you’re doing it, because our time is finite. This is it. So that’s one of the ways I measure success as well, is really look at, am I feeling good? Am I feeling energized? Am I serving my clients with that energy as well? And then my kids, are they supported? I have three kids. Um, like I said, I started young, so two are in college already. Mm-hmm. I have one that just started high school and, um, that’s so important because we’ve been given these children to shepherd and steward to become their best selves, and so it’s really interesting in my line of work to see. How they’re showing up in their lives based on the role model that I’ve been.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. How, how do you find yourself, uh, I mean, and one will ask you, are you good at this or not? Uh, and then if so, how do you do it is how do you stay in the moment, right? Because I think a lot of people, they’re listening to this podcast. They’re hard charging. They, you know, they get after it in life. What do you do to be in the moment, uh, and what can you help us with there?  Julie Hruska: That’s a great question and this is where I, I see every chapter of my life has come together to create the really, like a holistic approach to the way I live and the way that I work with my clients. Sustained present is key to really enjoying life and also serving at your highest level. I’m a big fan of breath work. Um, like we were talking about with the productivity planner, and I said, whether it’s 90 minutes or three hours, you have to take incremental breaks. During those breaks, I like to stand up, stretch close my eyes, because your eyes are the number one way you lose energy, and especially when you’re on the screen all the time, your energy is just pouring out so you close your eyes and breathe. 10 deep breaths really like rooted and grounded in your feet. It is taking that deep inhale from the base of your spine to the crown of your head, an exhale soften release. When you block out the senses and you tune into your breath, you become more present. And then after that you can, you know, come back, open your eyes, set an intention, what’s next. Brett Gilliland: And it’s, it’s the more I’ve done with meditation and practicing that it’s, it’s amazing that it does just bring you to a whole sense of a, of a different senses in your body. I mean, that you can feel you are in the moment and your heart rate slows down and people probably get tired of me talking about it, but it, it’s, for me, dealing with anxiety for so many years, it, it was the biggest game changer is learning about breathing and, and it sounds so simple, right? Cause we all just, thank God we wake up every day and we get to breathe. But how are you breathing? Right. That’s the, that’s the key. Those deep belly, you know, deep breaths are, are different than the from the chest, right? And, and those things are extremely, extremely helpful. So you’ve used the word action, um, you know, numerous times today, and that’s one of the circuits of the Circuit of Success, hence the name of the podcast. It’s your attitude, your belief system, your actions ultimately get your results. So when you hear actions, what comes to mind for you there? How important is that.  Julie Hruska: I mean, it’s everything. Thoughts are great. You have to master your mindset, but it won’t get you anywhere. You can’t think your way into success. Yeah. So action is key. The way that I see it is you can control three things in your life, your attitude, your effort, and your action. So it starts in the mind setting, the intention of who you are and how you wanna show up in the world, and then following that intention with action. Which is integrity, right. Right there your words and your actions align. And so when you live from that space, that’s how you achieve the success that you’re seeking.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And when you see this future greater in your past, when you hear that comment, um, that’s our mission as a firm. It’s my personal mission. Julie Hruska: Mm-hmm.  Brett Gilliland: Um, achieving a future greater than your past, what does that mean to you?  Julie Hruska: You know, I truly believe that anything is possible if you have the vision and you’re willing to wake up each and every day and dedicate your life to pursuing that purpose and pursuing it with passion. Yeah. So there is anything really, really, truly is possible and your future is, is there, it’s yours for the taking. You can envision the life that you desire and make it happen. Last summer, one of the, I love to travel and I love to share that with my kids and really expand their awareness. So last summer I, um, tried it out, can I work and can I travel? And I spent 33 days in Europe. It was amazing. I went to five different countries and I was able to be with my kids. The first part of the trip I was alone. Then my son joined, and then we met my daughter who was studying abroad and the second part of the trip I was with them and so I was able to be with them during the day. Then at night, cuz they’re old enough, they’d go out to dinner, do their thing. I would get on Zoom and work with my clients and finding that equanimity. Everyone has the potential to live the life they want, but you have to overcome your limiting beliefs to do that, right?  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Absolutely. Julie Hruska: And then you have to create that vision and take the action to make it happen.  Brett Gilliland: So, let’s go back, if you don’t mind. Um, and let’s talk about those. I, I call ’em the quote unquote dark days. I have no idea about your past or what those days were, but you, you spoken, you shared that, that you had some, you know, troubling times with, you know mm-hmm. Marriage, different things like that. So what advice would you have? We’re not diving into that stuff, but what advice would you have? For somebody, cuz it’s easy to say um, oh, I, you know, it’s just think positive and, and everything can happen. And, but when you, when man when things suck, you know, and you try to tell yourself, oh, just be positive. Like, you’re just like, screw off. I don’t want to hear that. Right. So exactly how do you help somebody pull them up out of the hole with you and then, and then start to think that way? Julie Hruska: Yeah. Um, I like mantras. That again, comes from my yoga, mindfulness, and meditation background. Um, the mantra that hit me was one courageous step at a time. Hmm. And so I like to encourage people when they are in that dark place, like is there that one? One little glimmer of light or hope that you can hold onto, and then it, it’s tough when you’re laying in bed in a fetal position, right? You all the anxiety, all the stress of the world is right there with you. You have to go into that self-talk and it’s the, okay, Julie, come on. You got this. Just get up that one step and you focus on one step. What’s the next step? Okay, you got that. What’s the next step? And sometimes you do have to tiptoe through life like that. And that’s, you know, the challenge. I’m not a psychologist, I don’t wanna give advice. Obviously if you have like in that realm, if you have severe depression or extreme anxiety, Go to a psychologist or a psychiatrist, get the help you need. Some people need medication for it. Other people can, you know, work their way through it with some of these strategies. Brett Gilliland: Mm-hmm.  Julie Hruska: Um, but if you are one of those people that is working through it, It’s about that next step and really keeping it small, bite sized, manageable, getting out of bed for so many people that have the intensity of anxiety and depression on their shoulders. That’s a huge step. And then getting active that, you know, the chemicals, your body, chemicals when you exercise. Brett Gilliland: Yeah,  Julie Hruska: That’s so important. So get up, get dressed, get out of the house. I don’t care if you go stand in your driveway. Right?  Brett Gilliland: Right.  Julie Hruska: Just get out of your house. And then that was what was so jarring during the pandemic. The minute that the lockdown started to happen, I was like, I am terrified for the mental health of the world. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Julie Hruska: I wasn’t, I was less worried about covid than I was about the mental health because when you lock yourself in and you’re not around people and you’re not taking care of yourself. All of that darkness finds a place and takes root.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. I, I always say this, we talk about solitary confinement. You know, it’s one of the worst things other than, you know, the death penalty. I mean, it’s one of the worst things you can do to a human right is put ’em in a dark room by themselves for 23 hours a day or whatever it is. But I look at it from the business landscape. I see a lot of people that you start to see them. Kinda put themselves in solitary confinement, right? So if somebody’s doing that to themselves, it happens to be listening to this right now, I would just say reach out. Right? Reach out to somebody, like you said, get up, put your sweatpants on and a sweatshirt, and go sit in your driveway and walk in a circle for a while.  Julie Hruska: Yeah, walk in a circle. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I mean, just do walk something. Julie Hruska: During Covid, I became friends with all of these cute, I call ’em cute little neighbors. I, I have a, a lot of older people around me for some reason. And, um, when I would, I’d go walk my dog. Which is a saving grace too. Having a pet Yeah. When you, when you’re feeling alone, can be a really nice thing. Um, and I started to meet all of these wonderful neighbors that I wouldn’t have met if I wouldn’t have gone out there.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Julie Hruska: And, um, so about support, you were talking about people that operate in a vacuum business, people that kind of self confine or, or pull back, um, I operate really well on my own, but I have learned the importance of creating a supportive circle of people that are at the next level or similar level to me, because those are those growth friendships that help us become the best version of ourselves, and I think we don’t, we underestimate the need for that. In our society to really make sure you’re surrounding yourself with positive, uplifting people, podcast, right coaches, um, you have that support circle that can help you become your best and thrive in all areas of your life.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So let’s talk about your, uh, your next, uh, project here. The Next Level TV show on Rvn, uh, the network there. And so let’s talk about that.  Julie Hruska: Yeah, so this is a really exciting opportunity. It’s called The Next Level with Julie Hruska. It’s gonna be housed on RV N television, but can be accessed on Hulu, Roku, or Apple tv. And it’s really about, you know, kind of getting the message out there bigger and broader. I interview successful people on their path, on the things that they’ve overcome to achieve success, and then they share their advice. So it can be anyone from so far I’ve interviewed, um, a founder of a shoe company, a NCAA coach, the head of, um, New Jersey’s, African American Chamber of Commerce, and all the different people that I interview have amazing and compelling stories. And the thread that runs between all of the stories is we all face challenges in our lives. They’re all very different, but we all face some. And the difference between achieving success and not achieving success is that resilience and those success strategies and, and so it’s my intention with that show to really empower everyone who listens, not just to get inspired by these successful people, but also to take away those nuggets like, like with your podcast here. Brett Gilliland: Yeah.  Julie Hruska: That they can apply to their own lives and become better because TV is full of junk and nonsense and so many shows are on there and they just talk and you, you leave them and you’re like, okay, that was nice. But it doesn’t really help you in life, and I want everything I do, whether it’s my post on LinkedIn or when I’m on podcasts, like your wonderful one here, or when I’m on my TV show, I wanna make sure that I’m helping people become better, that their time listening to me or reading the things I’ve written empower them to be their best self. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Julie Hruska: I feel like that’s my purpose in life.  Brett Gilliland: I love it. It’s good to have a purpose in life, isn’t it?  Julie Hruska: Yes. It’s so important and, and again, going back to that toolbox, if we bring it full circle, it’s the health and wellness, the clarity, the mindset mastery, the plan and strategies, those high performance habits that show up and, and courage, courage, energy, being intentional about the energy you bring into every space.  So all of those things go into a successful person’s toolbox. And then you have to customize it, right?  Brett Gilliland: Right.  Julie Hruska: If you like to wake up at 10:00 AM but you work your plan from 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM good for you. Like I am never going to tell people you must do X, Y, and Z, because that’s a bunch of BS. It’s, it’s a bunch of bs. And all of those people, and I know they’re, they’re crushing it. They’re crushing it out there. They’re the gurus with their books and their plans. But the reason that people listening right now, if you followed some of those plans and you then feel bad that you weren’t able to stick to it, it’s because it wasn’t yours. All we can do as coaches and as experts in our fields, Is provide people with the tools, but then they have to pick and choose which ones work for them, which ones honor their lives and their vision and their mission and purpose and passion. And when you do that, that’s where the power is.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So where do our listeners find more of Julie Hruska? Julie Hruska: I am on LinkedIn. I live on LinkedIn, so Julie Hruska, last name is H R U S K A. Connect with me there. I always love welcoming people into our community. I have a really actively engaged community there. And, um, I love it. I’m just so humbled and honored to be there. I also have a website, powerfulleaders.com and look out for the show. It’s gonna be rolling out soon, depending on when this, um, podcast is launched. Um, it’s on R V N television. The next Level with Julie Hruska. Like I said, I’m getting some really interesting guests and they inspire me and they motivate me to continue the work to help everyone become their best self.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Julie for being on the podcast. It’s been, uh, a ton of fun if time flew by and I got a lot of takeaways, so I appreciate your time today.  Julie Hruska: Thank you, Brett. Thank you so much for having me. This is a lot of fun and I really hope that everyone out there listening can gain some new awareness that will help them take their life to the next level because it is like, get out there, create a wildly ambitious vision, raise your ambition, deepen your discipline, and do the work. Take the action to create a life that you love.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Thanks so much, Julie.  Julie Hruska: Thank you, Brett.

Brett Gilliland speaks to Elizabeth Connelly and Katie Martin, both strong female figures within Visionary Wealth Advisors. Elizabeth touches on her early experiences as the only woman in executive meetings, which was normal for her in the beginning portion of her career. She emphasized the importance of hard work and perseverance in a male-dominated industry. Elizabeth also talks about the support she received from other female professionals.  Katie Martin shares her experiences as a young mother in the industry and her advice for women today pursuing a similar career. Katie shares her experiences in her position and how she aims to encourage women to take control of their financial futures. Both professionals have learned to balance a home and work life and found themselves successful. This episode is incredibly insightful for women and other professionals seeking a career in a male-dominated industry.    https://youtu.be/fhG4ILGs1QU Brett Gilliland: So we’re live here ladies. So we are, uh, we’ll let some people join here for a little bit and, uh, before we get started, um, but we’re excited today to celebrate Women’s History Month. Here at Visionary Wealth Advisors and I’ve got two, uh, distinguished guests. Katie Martin is with me, and also Elizabeth Connolly is with me. So we’re excited to, uh, spend some time today and get to know them and their careers and, uh, how blessed we are to get to work with them every day. So, again, I will wait just a little bit longer to make sure we are live in kicking. It’s 11 o’clock and, um, also going over to YouTube to check that. Um, right now. So, um, we are here. Okay. We’re live on, at least on, on YouTube, so, so that’s good. So we’ll exit out of there and then, uh, go over here to LinkedIn and uh, make sure we are live there, which it looks like we are. So, uh, yes, we are live. So. Alright. Great stuff. Well, I wanna get started. So again, I have, uh, Katie Martin with me. Katie Martin is a Chartered financial analyst, A C F P, certified Financial Planner. We have Elizabeth Connelly with us who is a JD, a certified trust specialist, and a certified IRA specialist with two distinguished careers, uh, that you all have. And we get the fortune of working with you two every single day here at Visionary. So if you could, these are always big open questions I know, but I’d like to start with you, uh, Katie, if we can, and just share a little bit about your career story. And, uh, what’s made you, the woman you are today?  Katie Martin: Sure. So I started in a rotational program at an investment firm right outta college. And at the end of that time I moved into our investment research area. So, um, I started as an associate analyst doing some, helping out, some equity analyst. And then in 2005 transitioned into a new area, which was our manager research area. So it was exciting to be the third person on that team and then help to play a role in growing that team from three to over 30, um, over the course of the next 10 to 15 years. So it was, um, It was a great opportunity to take on increasing responsibility over time. Um, you know, eventually I be, uh, was responsible for leading a team of analysts and then also leading some cross-divisional projects at the firm. So I did that for about 17 years and then reached a point, um, in my career where I decided it was time to ch make a change and look, to pivot to a role that was more autonomous and flexible. But most importantly was one where I had, um, wanted to feel like I was making more of a difference to, um, to an individual and working with individual clients. So that’s how I found Visionary. And I’ve been a wealth management advisor at Visionary since October of 2019.  Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Great. Well, thanks for sharing that story. And, uh, Elizabeth, how about you?  Elizabeth Connelly: So a little, I’ll go back a little farther than Katie did, uh, when I was little. I played like a lawyer. I sat at a, a dining room table and I would argue with my brother, and my brother would have this old stethoscope around his neck cuz he wanted to be a doctor and we’re little bitty kids at that time. Well, he is a doctor and I am a lawyer now, so we, it came full circle. But in my career, all during my life, when I went to college, I tried everything. You know, I, I, computer science, things in math, things in business. But I had an advisor, I had a female advisor at that time, an academic advisor, and she told me that I was gonna take the LSAT because I had shared with her at one point in time that I played like I was gonna be a lawyer. Well, somehow I, I passed that exam in a decent way and she said, well, now you’re gonna apply to law school. So I applied to one law school, St. Louis University. I got in and I said to her, well, now what am I gonna do? Because I had accepted a job at Macy’s in their management training program. Um, I was getting ready to graduate college, and she said, well, you’re gonna go tell them you’re not taking that job. And you’re going to law school. So I went to law school and it, it was fun. When I was there, I, I always wanted to be a litigator and in my young mind, I worked in a firm, I’d got to try a wrongful death case, and the life of a litigator is up and down and up and down. And so at that time I thought, well, I would like to be married and have a family someday, and it wouldn’t fit, right? Mm-hmm. That’s what my young mind. So I specialized. I went over and I interviewed for a job in the banking field, and there started my career. I was so lucky, unbeknownst to me because I walked into an environment where I handled both institutional and personal money, and most advisors specialize in one area or the other. So I actually grew up in my field doing both. And I am forever grateful for that. And over the years I had various opportunities that I took advantage of and found my way for client purposes into the arena that I’m now in. So the independent, uh, registered advisor, um, and it has been wonderful and it’s the exact right place for clients. Brett Gilliland: I mean, you do an amazing job of it. So, uh, that, uh, it’s a big deal. So I, I, I’m a big fan of these defining moments, right? I think we all have defining moments in our careers, in our lives. Um, I think back to, you know, my first year in the business was 2001. I started late oh one, but 2002, great year, 2003. Terrible year. Right? Like surprised to even let me stay on as a financial advisor. I just didn’t do much. Right. As a, as a advisor. I’m curious for you two, Katie, we’ll start with you on any pivotal moments or defining moments for you. In your career and to help you take action to where you’re at today. Katie Martin: Yeah. So I put some thought into that after we had our initial conversation to prepare for that. And you shared your, you know, very specific example of what kind of got you to where you are. And so I tried to think if there were any points in my career that I would define as that one pivotal moment. And I. I don’t know that there is anything quite that specific. And what I would say is it’s really more of a culmination of things for me. So I guess I’m somebody who’s kind of always thrived on that external validation. So when I was in school that meant, you know, seeing if you can get good grades. And then when I was in my corporate role, that meant kind of moving up to that next role in my firm. Yeah. And so, um, you know, when I finally got to the point where I was in my existing role and looking to what would be next and realized that I wasn’t so sure that that was something that was right for me at the time. It really forced me to go back and think a little bit harder about, okay, what is that next step? And so I, I kind of point to that as what it was that got me to kind of make that change that I needed to make at that time. Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: Were you, were you always a good student? Like was it easy for your parents? If you look back, you could have that discussion when you’re in high school. Cause and the reason I ask, I joke, this isn’t about, you know, kids and stuff, this podcast, but you know, we’ve got four boys, you’ve got two girls, you were a girl, you are a girl. My, my, my wife, obviously. She talks about the difference of what it was like when she was doing schoolwork and these boys. Right. So do you see a difference there?  Katie Martin: Yeah. I mean, I, I was fortunate that school always came easily to me, so it was easy for me to get good grades, and that was something that was important to me. Now, if you try to put me on a softball field or a volleyball court, then the story would be a lot different. So, um, and, and yeah, when I look at my, when I look at my own kids, You definitely see kind of the difference. It’s always, I mean, we gotta have a whole separate conversation on how different kids that are raised in the same environment from the same parents. Brett Gilliland: It’s crazy.  Katie Martin: Parents can be, but um, so yeah, so I think being good in school was fortunately something that was kind of easy to me.  Brett Gilliland: Good. Uh, Elizabeth, what about you? What was some of those defining moments in, in your career?  Elizabeth Connelly: You know, I’ve thought about this a lot and so my career started at a time where there were hardly any executive level females. And so my path was very different than nowadays, and I would say there’s not any one moment factually, not in a complaining way, any female. I, I was never at a table where there was another executive female. I would be in, in boardrooms and wherever I was, and everyone was a man. And so in my world, You didn’t have a, a pivotal moment, you had to survive. Katie Martin: Mm-hmm.  Elizabeth Connelly: Is what I’m saying. You had to survive. And so I made up my mind early on what I wanted to do and what I wanted to achieve, and I knew I just had to do it with perseverance, diligence, and not really speaking out because in that day and age, if you spoke out, you lost your job. I, that’s just kind of how it was. And so instead of pivotal moments that are obvious. They were more internal pivotal moments that I would achieve. I always had in my mind what I wanted to achieve by what age that I was, and I just worked and worked and worked to make that happen. Yeah.  Brett Gilliland: That’s great. So let’s, let’s talk about today how you will, uh, stay with you, Elizabeth. Is how do you support women today from, you know, from mentoring, just being there for ’em? What, what’s that role look like for you and, and how, how open is your door for that?  Elizabeth Connelly: My entire career, my door has been a hundred percent open. I have encouraged, I seek out women just quietly in whatever environment that I am in, and I offer to them that at any time they may come and speak to me and whatever they say to me will stay there. I have been, I hope, supportive my entire career. I still have people call me from early in my career to talk with me about how to prepare to ask their boss for a raise, how to react to questions that they’re gonna be asked in a review. Um, I have. My friends in, in my world will ask me to talk with their daughters or their granddaughters, both from how do you present yourself, how do you approach school, how do you stay true to yourself, but how do you have a respectful voice in, in the world in which we live today? And so just quietly, I, I just quietly am available and I let people know that. And as it’s taken advantage of, which I’m delighted, then I say to them, Feel free and tell your friends, I get emails, I get phone calls, would you help so-and-so? I don’t know so-and-so from Adam. But I always say yes.  Brett Gilliland: I think it’s amazing too, how many times people though may not take you up on that. Right? It’s like you got this unbelievable career, this success, all the stuff, and people may not take action to do that. Would you agree?  Elizabeth Connelly: I would agree. I think there’s a lot of fear and women in particular, even today while we’ve come really, really far. There is a lot of internal fear that people have that you have to overcome. Brett Gilliland: Uh, katie, what about you? How, how’s the mentoring, the growth, things that you’re doing in today’s world to help the, the future, uh, of America really for the, in women in business?  Katie Martin: Sure. So, you know, I, before I get into that, I would just confirm what Elizabeth was saying in terms of her door always being open. I mean, as someone who’s been in this role longer than I have, I’ve certainly appreciated her willingness to have conversations with me that have, and, you know, be able to talk about those things that, like you say, it takes, it’s, it can be hard to get up the courage to share something where you might look vulnerable with somebody else. So, um, I, I would just would like to validate what Elizabeth said she’s willing to do. So, I guess in, in my view, kinda the way I think about working with, uh, women today, I mean, one of the main ways that I work with women is that the vast majority of my client relationships, the, the female is the one that is probably the one I have the closer relationship to. So, You know the McKenzie’s done surveys on this and two thirds of the women. Um, two-thirds of women, even though the vast majority of women are breadwinners or co breadwinners in their home, they still don’t consider themselves to be investors and, uh, feel that their finances are top source of stress for them.  So, you know, I view it as my mission to help create peace of mind for these busy women who are interested in taking control of their financial future. I mean, they’re, they’re experts in what they do, and so to be able to hopefully be the person that can help ease the source of stress to allow them to show up better in other parts of their life that are, you know, more important to them, is what I kind of view my greatest contribution to be. Brett Gilliland: And, and have you seen that, and this is for both of you here, whoever wants to take this question, but have you seen a difference? Cause I know I have as a, as a person’s been this business for 22 years now, the amount of females I talked to on the phone about the whole plan and their investments has changed dramatically, right. And, and so have you two seen that as well in, in your time.  Elizabeth Connelly: I absolutely have, and I knew early on in my career. Just dynamically. I knew that women control a lot of things, but we weren’t allowed to let that show, right?  Brett Gilliland: Mm-hmm.  Elizabeth Connelly: So I knew that and I watched that happening, and in meetings that I would have early on in my career, I requested that both the man and the woman be there, and I always spoke to both of them. Katie Martin: Mm-hmm.  Elizabeth Connelly: So that was a little bit unusual, but that was my quiet way of trying to get women more in the center, if you would. And today I have many individual female clients, not just couples and so forth. So it has changed considerably.  Brett Gilliland: Um, talk to us a little bit about, you know, go back to when you were a child, right? And, and how was the support you received from, whether that’s to today as, uh, you know, adults have been the business for a while. That who is that mentor you look for now, or have you had in your career that’s helped get you where you are? Katie.  Katie Martin: Yeah. So as I, I think about the, um, mentors that got me to where I am today. I mean, I think one of the best ways to figure out where you’re going next is to have somebody to emulate. So I think of the people that have been willing to, um, provide the constructive feedback to tell me things that maybe I didn’t wanna hear, but were necessary to hear and be the one who, you know, demonstrated both professionally and personally what it was that I wanted to pursue in my career. Brett Gilliland: Katie? Uh, Katie, I just talked to Katie. Elizabeth, what about you?  Elizabeth Connelly: So what I would say there is from the time that we were little, my parents raised us that we would be educated. They come from little tiny towns and their upbringing was quite different, And I did not know that you had a choice about going to college. I had no idea. I knew you had a choice about what you did after that. So I would say first my parents, and I can remember as a child, my dad ta. I come from a family of eight children and there were six girls and two boys. And my dad would always say that he raised his girls to take care of themselves. And I did not understand what that meant when I was little. So I certainly did when I got older and every one of us can take care of ourselves. So I looked to that moment from my very young years. And then I will say that when I went to college, there was a gentleman there that was the first person I met. I was on a work study, um, and he was so incredibly kind to me. He was the director of admissions. Well, I later learned he had three daughters, and I think he just, for whatever reason, took me under his wing. And to this day, he’s now well into his eighties and to this day, he has referred his family to me. Mm-hmm. I have clients all over the country because of him, and so his belief in me meant everything. And he stayed with me. And every decision that I’ve made in my career, I’ll never forget when I joined Visionary. He called me up and told me how happy he was for me.  Katie Martin: Mm-hmm.  Elizabeth Connelly: It was, it was wonderful. So that’s what sticks out in my mind.  Brett Gilliland: Well, I think it’s cool. I, I look back and, you know, again, startin’, in 2001 I remember coaching a basketball team. I didn’t have kids at this time. And, and I think some of the people I met there that still refer business and it’s, those relationships are huge. They’re absolutely priceless. So thanks for sharing that. The, um, let’s turn the page to this. Um, and I say this with a smile because, I think the, the women I’m around you two, my wife, others, it’s kind of that can do all attitude, right? Can women do it all? Um, how do you accomplish that in your daily life? You know, you got family, there’s children, career, education, your health, I mean, all the stuff, right? How do you do that? Can you do it all? What are your thoughts on that as a, as a female in business right now, Katie?  Katie Martin: So the answer is no, you cannot do it all. And it’s unrealistic to even think you can, I mean, by nature. It’s just not possible. And that’s whether they’re male or female.  Brett Gilliland: Can I interrupt you for a second, don’t you think though that, that people, they have that kinda complex, right?  Katie Martin: Yeah, yeah.. And I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing to try to do as much as you can. I mean, it’s, it’s a worthwhile pursuit, but I think about it, um, you know, just to try to, Set expectations that it’s not possible to do it all. And the way I tend to think about it is you have to prioritize. And so, you know, I think that, um, setting what those priorities are and then having the courage to make those ti make the time for those things that are important to us is about the best we can do. And I think that you also can appreciate that your priorities might shift over time. So, um, you know, Season of life that I’m in, my daughters are 14 and 11 years old, so I, I’m very much starting to feel the, um, the shortness of how long it is until, you know, in about seven years I’m gonna have all the free time in the world. So to speak. Um, and so I think, you know, the way I approach kind of my time I spend at work and my time at home right now looks a little bit different than it did 10 years ago when they were little, and 10 years from, from when? Um, from now as, as they’ve moved on to other things. So, um, I think the best we can do is to just, you know, be true to what it is that’s important to us, whether it’s, you know, work, family, um, hobbies, charitable work, whatever it might be, and then, Be the one that kind of defines how you allocate your time to those things. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Do, do you have anything you can share with those, uh, maybe the young moms that are listening and or young or older moms that are listening that, that, how do you do that? Like, what’s your daily process behind that?  Katie Martin: Yeah, so I think, um, you know, I’ve worked my entire time as a mom and so when my kids were little, they went to daycare and, you know, I, I harbored guilt at, you know, the fact my husband dropped my kids off at daycare at seven o’clock in the morning and I might be picking ’em up at 5:30. I mean, it closed at six, so you had to be there before then. Um, and so there certainly were times when you’re in the car driving to work and it’s like, oh, I know my kid doesn’t feel a hundred percent today, but you know, I have to get to work. And, you know, it’s like, am I doing the right thing? But you know, I appreciate now in hindsight that in some respects it was almost a little bit easier then because I knew my kids were taken well, taken care of. They knew that I was gonna be there for anything important. I didn’t miss anything that was, in my view, important to my kids as I was growing up. But now that they’re older and that season has shifted a little bit, Um, you know, they’re gone all day at school, so I’ve got all day to devote to those things are important. But when I’m at work, then that means that I kind of need to focus in and get my work done because I might need to leave work at three o’clock to pick somebody up from track practice or, you know, go to a soccer game or whatever. Um, because right now that’s the kind of stuff I don’t wanna miss. So I think it’s just, and this is still a work in progress, but trying to be as present as you can with the time that you are making for the things that you’re doing is, um, something that I think is important to think about.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Elizabeth, what about you? That that can-do attitude or can do-it all attitude? What do you say about that?  Elizabeth Connelly: So I echo all of Katie’s comments. I will also say that for me personally, and, and I would say this to young women, you can do it all just not all at one time. And I think Katie was mentioning this as well from the perspective that at different times in your life, you focus your energies different. And I have two children also who are now grown, and I never missed a darn thing for them. And I made sure that the activities that I did as a mother, that they were ones where I was present with my children. So instead of being in charge of the gift wrap, I went on the field trip. You know those, you make some choices that way. And so if you know in your mind all the different things you wanna do, I, I feel like every day your life, my life is in service of others of some sort. You know, you, I have a husband, I have children, family clients, et cetera. And my greatest joys come from them and helping them be the best people that they can be. And so, Whatever I, whenever I think about that, I just can’t do one more thing or something happens that’s a health issue or some other issue. I think to myself, what I was told, and that is there is nothing you can’t do for just one day, and sometimes I’ve had to break that down into 15 minute increments and I would literally sit there. Move it outta my mind and say, for this 15 minutes I can do this. And I just believe if you have that continual focus that you will accomplish what you want to, it may not be in the timeframe in which you would like it to be.  Brett Gilliland: And, and so, and, and you know this, we’ve had this discussion, but um, you may not know this Katie, but we, Elizabeth sent me, so I, I, I had a fear of flying, right? Katie Martin: Mm-hmm.  Brett Gilliland: I didn’t fly for eight years. And. Ms. Elizabeth over here sent me this very nice card before I was getting on my first plane ride. It was June of last year, June of 2022. And she said in the card, there’s nothing you can’t do for 15 minutes. And I’m like, you have no idea. You don’t know I’m gonna be scared of death, but I get this little travel rosary. And I’ve got this, you know, I’m superstitious, so I put this, it’s on my finger, it sets the crosses in my hand. And, and it is amazing because when I sat in that plane that first time and those doors opened, I thought, that’s gonna be the freak out moment, right? And so I had this overwhelming sense of peace and, but that, that thought kept coming through my mind. There’s nothing I can’t do for 15 minutes. Now, you may have to tell yourself that a lot on a three and a half hour flight to Tahoe, but you can do it, right? And so I also think it, it reminds me of a story, uh, I heard at a conference one time and, and I started doing it when my first child was born 17 years ago. I put every Wednesday on my calendar at 3:30. I went home, right? And the first time I did that, I was scared of death. Like, you know, babe, you don’t understand I’m gonna do, I had all the reasons in the world why it wasn’t gonna work, but it worked. And so would you guys agree with the comment? If you put it on the calendar, put your family stuff on the calendar and build your work life around it, you’ll make it work. Katie Martin: Yeah. I mean, I think one of the things that I can look back on with pride, and maybe it was naive at the time, but I was going to ask for what was important to me when it came to my family. To me that was, that was a priority. So, you know, when my first daughter was born, there were only a handful of people. So this was back in 2009. At that time, a handful of people who worked from home. So it was, and by work for from home, I mean, working from home one day a week. So when I, uh, was going to have my first child, I’m like, well, this is very important to me that I am able to work from home one day a week. Now, that didn’t mean my, my child wasn’t there with me, but it was just kind of one day to change the routine up a little bit, to hopefully make our family time a little better. And so, I asked for that. And it was, you know, and I was, my company was very gracious in granting that to me with the understanding that it was a privilege. And I’ll tell you, I worked harder on that day that I was at home because I felt like I had something to prove, to make sure people knew that it wasn’t a vacation day, it was a day that I truly was working. But I think that just in general, I’ve been a bit unapologetic about ever making time to do those things that were, um, were of highest importance to me. You know, really people said yes when I asked. I mean, nobody was, you know, telling me, no, you can’t do something like this. So I think sometimes we’re afraid to ask and you just kinda have to do that. Brett Gilliland: If you don’t ask, you won’t get it, will you? Katie Martin: That’s right, that’s right. Brett Gilliland: Elizabeth, anything on that?  Elizabeth Connelly: So my path, uh, um, quite a bit older than Katie and I would say that I never missed anything, but I had to take a vacation day. Yeah. If, if a woman asked forsomething it, it was greatly frowned upon. So you learned not to ask for that because it just set you back further. And so you would take a vacation day. The number of times I would take my children to daycare and drop ’em off and the phone was ringing when I got to work, that one of ’em had thrown up. You know, you, you have this panic inside yourself, so you watch all the days you have for vacation or sick days. So that was more my reality. During the, the majority of my career until more now. And you know, it’s interesting because I’m so grateful. My whole goal was for women to have it better at this part of my career than I did, and hopefully myself and other people, maybe a little bit paved that way. But when I had my two children, and then when I, Anna was, when I, Anna was born, I did not know you did not get paid for maternity leave. I, I had no idea. And, um…  Brett Gilliland: They did not pay you for maternity leave?  Elizabeth Connelly: No. And I will never, ever forget that sinking feeling. Like, what are we going to do? And I’m not gonna be able to stay home and take care of her for very long. It’s just a d it’s a different world now. And I, you know, the, the leave for mothers, for fathers for adoption, I, I think it’s all wonderful. And so my path was just a little bit different and I’m glad for where the world’s evolved to today.  Brett Gilliland: When you think about it, that’s not that long ago to think that how fast this changing, you didn’t get paid. Elizabeth Connelly: Yeah. Not 1 cent. Brett Gilliland: That is amazing to me.  Elizabeth Connelly: And I was even, even worried about the insurance piece of it. Right. You know, like, do I lose my insurance during this? It was a different world then.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So let’s talk about now the, the leader that’s listening to this and, and this will be out on a podcast later as well. Um, but, but talk to the leader of the organization or really anybody in the organization, but what is it that companies can do now to support women more in the workplace? Better than we’ve even done in the last? 20 years, 30 years, however long it’s been. Right. What can we do differently, Elizabeth?  Elizabeth Connelly: I like to think that you recognize people as professionals. You looked as their skillset, their, their presence, their skillset, communication skills. And I believe that that females have that in droves. They’ve just never been allowed to show that, so to speak. And I feel like the leaders of any organization, if they tell themselves when they’re looking at a position or looking at culture or the direction of their organization. Recognize professionals, then let them be the professionals they are. And when I think about Katie saying when someone asks you for one day at home or, or what have you, If instead of making an immediate decision, you look at that person and what that person’s contribution is to your firm. If they ask you for something, it’s because they want it and need it, and they will, like Katie said, do everything they can to not lose that. Those are your best people. So say yes. Say yes when a good person asks you for something. Brett Gilliland: Say yes.  Katie Martin: Yeah, and I think, um, I very much agree with what Elizabeth was saying. And then to maybe expand on that a little bit. I think just trusting that the person you’ve hired to do the job has the ability to do the job. So you, you know, you explain to them what it is that, um, the role will be, and then you give them the autonomy and flexibility to do it in a way that is true to them. So if you hire good people and they’ve got the capability to do it, know that they will ask when they need assistance and then just, you know, sometimes that might mean that the work gets done a little bit differently or perhaps on a different timeframe, but trust that they’re gonna get it done. Brett Gilliland: So this next question I, I think is gonna be hard for both of you because I, I know you both well enough, you’re not gonna talk about your biggest accomplishments, even though I’m gonna ask the question. Um, but I’m gonna start with you Elizabeth. So you were a, or are a Forbes top woman wealth advisor several times. You’re a hundred, uh, 100 of the St. Louisans to know, to succeed in business. A hundred. That’s a big deal for you and I, Katie. We get to know one of ’em, right?  Katie Martin: I know.  Brett Gilliland: And, uh, a who’s who, an American Marquee Lifetime Achievement Award and nominated for Lawyers of Distinction several times. So I could go on and on, um, about those awards, which those are so well deserved. But I think about you and your Cree. You told me a story about an engagement ring and, uh, that client story. Uh, talk to us about that, why that matters more to you than all these other accolades that you’ve gotten.  Elizabeth Connelly: My greatest thrills are when my phone rings, and I am a person who answers my phone when my phone rings, and it’s someone who wants to tell me something that those are my greatest moments. One of them was a young guy who, um, I had a family group. I had accounts for his parents, and I had gotten to know the boys. Well, he called me before he called his mom and dad to tell me he was gonna get engaged that night, and he wanted to ask me about how he was gonna pay for the ring. And so we rehearsed how he, what he was gonna say to his parents and how he was gonna say it. And it was just the most darling moment, um, to know that somebody thought enough of me to call me and ask that and rehearse for their parents. Um, so that, that was a truly great moment for me.  Brett Gilliland: That’s amazing. So, and, and if you could, maybe Elizabeth we’ll have you do this as well, but talk about the designations and the career and, and you’ve said some amazing things before we recorded about Katie, but I, I’d like to hear it from you and your perspective and your experience in the business on what you’ve seen from Katie’s business mind and the things that she’s accomplished. What, what are your thoughts on Katie in, in, in that wo world.  Elizabeth Connelly: So Katie has a designation that’s a chartered financial analyst that designation, very few people have it across the country. Almost everyone who has it is a male. It is incredibly difficult to get, and I have told Katie that I so admire her for actually going after that designation. In a time of her life where she’s a wife, a mother, a worker, a coaching at whatever, and she decided to do that, uh, that, that was just amazing and remarkable to me. Um, I find that she’s very unassuming. Uh, so that’s just something she did in her career. But I find it to be amazing that that was something that she accomplished. Brett Gilliland: Yes. So I know you wouldn’t have said all those things about yourself.  Katie Martin: Yeah, it was my face red cuz it feels red.  Brett Gilliland: No, it’s perfect.  Katie Martin: But thank you.  Brett Gilliland: Yes. So some of your thoughts on your, uh, biggest accomplishments in, in the field?  Katie Martin: Yeah. So, um, you know, kind of similar to what Elizabeth was describing, I think of my biggest accomplishments as those, those most gratifying moments of feeling like I’ve made a difference to someone. So in my former role as a leader of analysts, when I could see someone that I led either reach that next level or feel like I was really getting through to them in a way that perhaps I hadn’t seen previous leaders do, I mean that was some of the most rewarding parts of being a leader in my, in my career at the time. Now, I would point to those times where somebody will say, I feel so much better because I talk to you. I mean, that, that’s what I’m here to do. I, I mean, anybody can recommend an investment or, or whatever it is, but to feel like you are earning the trust of someone and then making a difference in something that’s extremely important to them is gonna be the most gratify is is the most gratifying thing in my role. Brett Gilliland: So, um, skipping some stuff here, but how, how do we go, how do we balance your professional personal life? Right. We talked a little bit about this earlier, Katie, but what, what’s some of the strategies that you have now you’ve done over your career again, that, that mom that’s listening to this right now and, and, and what, what advice would you have for them? What strategies would you have for them to help them go from that point A to point? You know, z quickly.  Elizabeth Connelly: What I would say is, I had a CEO at a company who I, I asked one time, how do you do everything? And he said, you know what? We all have the same 24 hours in a day, and you have to sit there and you have to decide on that day, what are the most important pieces, and then you organize your day that way. So whether you calendar it, how, however it is that you accomplish it, I calendar everything. I even calendar times to think about different things.  Brett Gilliland: I love that.  Elizabeth Connelly: But that’s what you. And you can do it when you break your day down that way, you will focus that way, um, and just do it over and over and over again. Brett Gilliland: Oh, I, I call it boringly consistent, right?  Elizabeth Connelly: There you go.  Brett Gilliland: Just be boringly consistent. Show up every day. And you, and you mentioned some of these earlier, but anything else you’d like to share, Katie, on that front?  Katie Martin: Uh, I mean, it’s all very similar. It’s identifying what, what is important to you. And I kind of do it over the course of, um, you know, maybe a week at a time. And then every day start to think about, okay, I know I needed to get this stuff done this week. What absolutely has to be done today? And I do that both personally or professionally, you know, thinking about. The things that are coming up this weekend, what do I need to take care of today because we’re gone tomorrow night. You know, all those kinds of things. So you can do whatever you put your mind to. You just have to put, you know, put the emphasis on your time, on the right things. Brett Gilliland: Uh, write it down, right. Katie Martin: Right.  Brett Gilliland: I mean, track it, write it down. Um, challenges, Katie, for you, challenges maybe you’ve faced in your career, um you know, as a woman in business, uh, in your profession, how have you overcome some of those things throughout your career? Katie Martin: Yeah, so, um, you know, the reality of the roles I’ve been in both as an investment analyst and then also as a financial advisor, is that they are male dominated and, you know, the reality of it’s been that most of my leaders have been male and they’ve been very supportive and great to work for, and, you know, have always helped me get better. So I, I, I, I can certainly speak to that. However, what I would say that is, um, one thing that I have felt over my career is that most of my peers are also male, and so the relationships that my peers were able to build with the same male leader was just different than what I could, I mean, You know, I didn’t get the invitation to go play golf. I mean, that’s kind of a, a cliche example, and it also could be because I’m not that great of a golfer, but I think the, the, you know, the reality is to go out to lunch or grab a drink after work or something like that. The dynamic is just different when you’re talking about a male and a female than it is if it’s a male and a male or a female and female. So, um, I think that’s, that’s one of the things that has been something that’s always been a little bit in the back of my mind in the roles that I’ve been in. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And do you think that changes? I mean, how, how do you change that?  Katie Martin: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think some of it is just, and this one of the other things that we had talked about is how to be more inclusive. I think it’s just trying to, you know, get to know what’s important to each individual person. Whether it’s a male or a female and, and trying to find common ground on which you can establish more of a relationship. So maybe not everybody likes to play golf, but maybe there are other things that are important to me that I would have in common with ’em that we could ,you know, build more of a common ground on. Brett Gilliland: Uh, I don’t think she’s talking about me, just because there happens to be a golf ball right over my head here. I’m like…  Katie Martin: No, it’s, no. Brett Gilliland: I’m just kidding. Uh, Elizabeth, what about you? Some of the things you’ve had to overcome . Elizabeth Connelly: Ka Katie said it well, uh, that has been a, a big deal is the personal relationships and it is a male female thing, and that, that’s cultural, right? Not cultural to affirm, but to our world that we exist in. And that, ha that has been very hard. So what, what I did to overcome that, is in my walks of life, I would seek other individual female executives, and they would typically not be from my arena. They would be from other arenas, and we would s put together little support groups and do regular times together and even travel together. I have one great story that there were four of us. There was a lawyer that practiced in a firm, did murders and acquisitions, a female owned construction company. A woman who ran a like a furniture for hospitals and schools, and then a woman who ran a flooring company. And we went on a, we called it an executive Women’s weekend, and after that weekend, the furniture and flooring merged their businesses. The construction person did the construction on their new facility, and the lawyer did all the contracts. And so, I to overcome the reality of the world in which we lived. That’s what I did, was tried to seek out in little ways how to just keep going, right? Perseverance. I never gave up. I just worked harder and harder and harder. Brett Gilliland: Oh yeah. How, how much did you have to advocate for yourself? I, I had a, and the reason I asked that, I had a, um, woman on my podcast, I dunno, maybe two weeks ago, and she talked about, she was this young professional woman, she’s working at a big accounting firm in St. Louis, and she raised her hand and she went in and basically said, here’s why I’m the person for that job. And that was a defining moment for her. Right. So did you have to go in and, and do that, advocate for yourself to make something happen?  Elizabeth Connelly: So close to 40 years ago, the, the only female there, if you tried to advocate to yours for yourself, you were pushed to the side. You were still doing all the work for which someone else was putting their name on it, but you were pushed to the side. So what I told myself early in my career is that I had to prove myself by being the best performer. And numbers don’t lie. Right. And so that’s what I mean when I worked harder, harder, harder because I knew that somebody couldn’t say that I didn’t add value if my numbers were better than everybody else. And so it was just a different time. Just a different time.  Brett Gilliland: And I think that’s what’s great about our business, right? I mean, the results speak for themselves.  Elizabeth Connelly: Yes.  Brett Gilliland: You, you either have clients or you don’t. Right.  Elizabeth Connelly: Right.  Brett Gilliland: And I think back to a story you told me if you, if you’re comfortable sharing this, um, but the 50 cents an hour deal, right. Can you, can you share that story?  Elizabeth Connelly: Yes.  Brett Gilliland: Cause again, that’s still, I think about it often cause it blows my mind just in your working career. This is how much it’s changed.  Elizabeth Connelly: So what he’s, what Brett is referring to is, I wanted so bad to have $5 when I was this young teenager. And I went around my neighborhood, everything what I could do. Wash your car, um, sweep your porch, whatever it was, because I needed $5. I washed one of my neighbor’s cars and they gave me 50 cents, and I vacuumed, I did everything. I knew that a boy who had done that before got several dollars. And that was true for babysitting. Even when I went, finally worked a W2 job at a dime store. I was paid less than the men were paid, but I was the person who did the work, who they called when they needed somebody to fill in and so forth. So that was the world back then, and I feel like the women who migrated quietly through that and persevered through that, hopefully, led to some of where we are today. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, absolutely. I’m, I’m thinking back to my house, having a male babysitter with four boys that would never have done, that would not been well for our home. So, um, what, what’s, what’s one piece of advice, Katie, you’d give your younger self now? So when you look back, you know, your career, what, what advice would you give yourself? Katie Martin: Yeah, I think the big one for me is to not be so afraid to fail. Um, you know, I, I talked earlier about this, you know, need to achieve and I think that, you know, to the, the point Elizabeth was just saying, or you were asking about needing to kind of raise your hand and advocate for yourself. I mean, there are, you know, it’s a pretty common study to show that women need to feel like they’re a hundred percent qualified for something before they would apply for a new job. And I think, um, in my career that’s been, um, that’s been the case. I, I feel like I needed to be confident that I was going to succeed before I was willing to take the risk to do something new, whereas, You know, I wish I would’ve learned earlier on to trust that I was going to be able to figure it out. And yes, I was gonna make mistakes, but the mistakes that I made are where I was gonna get the biggest growth and the the best opportunity to learn.  Brett Gilliland: Yeah. What about you, Elizabeth? Elizabeth Connelly: I would say going back to early part of my career, there’s nothing I would tell my young self because I would’ve been fired for, for what I would’ve told my young self to do. Mm-hmm. But today, what I would say to to young women, Have a voice. Use your voice. We have a voice. Now do it respectfully.  Brett Gilliland: Yep. And last question, um, but your hopes, your aspirations, you know, for that next generation. Let’s pick, you know, Katie’s two daughters, right? 11 and 14 years old. What’s the aspiration you have for them? Long, long-term professionally?  Elizabeth Connelly: Long-term professionally, for that age group? I would like to think that the world would look at skillset s instead of male female. Look at qualifications, recognize qualifications, and I think if we all diligently work toward that, and if leaders try to have that mindset when they’re looking at candidates for positions, that’s the best thing we can do. Brett Gilliland: Katie. Katie Martin: This maybe takes it in a slightly different direction than what, what you asked, but I think, um, it’s, I would encourage women to take control of their financial future early. So one of the best ways to build wealth over time is to start saving and investing early. So to the extent that you start in a role to, you know, to feel like you’ve got ownership of your finances, because that’s ultimately what’s going to give you that freedom and flexibility later on to pursue whatever it is that’s important to you. Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, uh, ladies, I haven’t really enjoyed this conversation. It’s, uh, lots of takeaways and, and I’m assuming I can say this, uh, publicly, that for anybody watching this that wanna reach out to Elizabeth and Katie, Doors are open emails. You can find ’em on our website, visionarywealthadvisors.com. Uh, but it’s been a privilege having you both and just so thankful. I know I speak for Tim and myself, uh, to have you both, uh, amazing advisors, um, in the firm. And so thank you for being with us today.  Katie Martin: Thanks for the opportunity.  Elizabeth Connelly: Thank you.