The Circuit of Success Podcast with Brett Gilliland

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Kristen Holmes, the VP of Performance Science at Whoop. Kristen shares her impressive resume and discusses the importance of tracking and understanding stress levels, nasal breathing, and circadian alignment. She emphasizes the importance of taking control of our lives and making choices that will benefit our future selves. Lastly, Kristen talks about Legacy Expeditions, a company owned by former special operations members that attempts to skydive into all seven continents in seven days to raise money for Folds of Honor. Tune in for recommendations on stress management and different tips to improve your overall health! Kristen Holmes // Circuit of Success Full Video   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland today I’ve got Kristen Holmes with me, the VP of Performance Science at Woop. Whoop. It’s awesome to have you. How are you today? Speaker Kristen Holmes: I’m doing great. Thank you so much. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Sorry for the technical difficulties we had there, but, we’re we’re at, you know, Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. If that’s all we have to be challenged with today, we’re we’re doing alright. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right. You’re exactly right. Well, you, have an amazing, resume, and, I’m gonna read just a little bit of this stuff just so our our listeners get a a little gist of who you are, but I think it’s really cool going back even to, even before this, what I have here in college, you were a three time all American, two time big ten athlete of the year at the University of Iowa. Makes my cousin Brad happy. He said, I finally I’d I sent him this this morning. He said, you finally got some talent on there, you know, humor soon. Speaker Kristen Holmes: The Speaker Brett Gilliland: competing in both Field Hockey and Basketball of two thousand twenty one University of Iowa Hall of Fame and Ducki, seven year member of the US National Field Hockey team, one of the most successful coaches in Ivy League history, twelve league titles in thirteen season in a national championship at Princeton, You have an MIT, sloan, artificial intelligence certificate in MA from psychology and sports performance, and bachelor’s of political science from Iowa, you are a PhD candidate, and you’re just serving the world. It’s amazing what you are doing. So thanks for being with us. My question for you, Kristen, if you can, we’re gonna start off kind of a big wide question is what has helped make you the woman you are today? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Oh, I think, probably being, really introspective about the things that I care about and and what I wanna think about, how I wanna apply my attention, and just ensuring that I’m creating outlets for those things. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: You know, so I think it’s and then, you know, from a micro perspective, just ensuring that those things that I say care about you know, my behaviors are laddering up to that. And I think that for me, that has just been a very simple framework I think from a very young age that I’ve just tried to apply consistently. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: And and I I think, you know, how you get to that is is definitely through awareness and introspection. And I just don’t know how we can as human beings, like, I I don’t know There there might be other paths, but I I think, you know, taking the time to really understand how we want to apply our effort and and the things that we wanna think about is is just, like, such a core stepping stone to, like, leading of flourishing kind of happy life. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And and so, obviously, you don’t just show up to University of Iowa and do all the things you did. So your upbringing was a big part of Did do you think did your parents focus a lot on the outcome or more on the effort that you were putting in as an athlete? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I think you’re losing some process versus outcome, and as a coach, this is something that I think, I, thought about a ton as a coach and as an athlete. And, you know, I would say that’s because there’s real nervous system implications, to each, which we can certainly talk about. But, I would say my my parents, were really just, like, let me my thing. I mean, my dad, my, my, my dad played football in Nebraska, you know, a, a big time athlete himself, and I think he really pushed my brother, to play football, and my brother ended up quitting in seventh grade. And my, you know, brother’s a few years older than I am, and and I think that, like, really crushed my dad’s soul And I I think, like, so when it came to me, he just kinda let me do my thing. And so but I was, I think, always I was just really a a driven kid. And I had, you know, a pretty tough household growing up. You know, my mom was, just she struggled with alcohol. Her whole life had a lot of mental health issues, so my dad traveled a lot. So, you know, I was I was pretty unsupervised, to be honest. And, you know, I just I found team sports as, just an unbelievable home, you know, where I could be with other folks and, you know, other other kids, you know, coaches. Yeah. It was really, like, my outlet. And So I was always, you know, honest many teams as I could, you know, that would take me and, that I could that I could, you know, walk to or, you know, find rides to. And, yeah, so I I think from for for me, you know, my I don’t know that my my parents really kind of, had a lot of influence in terms of process versus outcome. But I do know that, you know, regardless of how I played, you know, especially as I got older and it was really competing at higher levels, didn’t matter how many goals I scored, how many, you know, baskets I had. Like, you know, it’s it was, my dad always you know, love me unconditionally, and, you know, never seemed to place, you know, my my worth on on my performance that said, I did. And it took me a long time to understand that and unravel it and start to, not think about my self worth in the context of my performance levels. And this was probably one of the harder, you know, when I think about my early adulthood, this is probably one of the the hardest things I had to work through. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It it’s it’s, but don’t you think that also that that hard being hard on ourselves that maybe there there was fear, maybe there was just that pressure, maybe it was just that desire to be great. Like, don’t you think that matters though too? I mean, you gotta want it. Right? You gotta wanna you gotta go take it to the next level. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. But I I think understanding our motivations though is really is important. You know, like, you know, what what is driving me? You know, am I running from something? Am I running to something? Am I motive by motivated by emotions of trust? Am I motivated by emotions of fear? Know, they have two very different, impacts on our physiology, on our, you know, on our brain. Of course, those are interrelated. So I think getting to a, a place where you’re you’re motivated by by trust and and you’ve got I think, and there’s, I think, some purity in in in those motivations. I I think that is kind of a sustainable framework, whereas I think operating out of fear, will come at a cost, eventually. And it’s gonna through your head in in a way that probably aren’t gonna be proud of. So I I think understanding the the root of emotions and and trying to and I guess a a very simple example, you know, in my motivated by motivated by, you know, a fear emotion, fear based motion would be, you know, jealousy, for Gilliland and, you know, kind of some of those social comparisons that can, that can come forwards, or am I motivated by you know, love of the sport and and just a a passion for the technical aspects of the sport or you know, trying to solve like a problem. You know, so I I think understanding those motivations, I think, are are really important, in terms of, just from a health, a mental health perspective. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So if if we can, let’s dive into your day. I mean, obviously, super busy the work that you were all doing at Woop, and and we’ll dive into Woop here in a second. But if we can talk to us about what’s a typical day, like, you. I know there’s no probably typical day, but the the no — Yeah. — the no mis habits that we’re seeing that Kristen’s doing day in and day out. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. So I guess I’ll talk about today. You know, I woke up at at 6AM. I’m really lucky I have a a track right by my house. Yeah. 6AM, crushed about, I don’t know, I guess, eight ounces of of element. Yeah. So it’ll salt my water. And then hit the track and and I ran, I don’t know, four or four hundreds, eight, two hundreds, and ten, one hundreds, and did, some core work, some mobility, jog back home, had a protein shake, showered, got in the car with my son, drove him to, the New England junior championships playing, in the p the the New England junior PGA championship — Much. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Kristen Holmes: today at Stow acres. Yeah. So get some car time with my boy and, yeah, I dropped him off and then just headed into work. So I I work in Boston, and Yeah. I think one of the things that I’m I’m working on, you know, as we kind of are back in the office is just, thinking about my movement throughout the day. You know, I might have crushed a workout this morning, but, you know, that sedentary behavior is, like, crushing on on health, and there’s more research kinda coming around there. So, yeah, just making sure that I’m, you know, using my standing desk and moving around the office. Enough throughout the day. But, but, yeah, we’ll get to think about all sorts of cool problems today. Gonna give a little lecture to the data science steam on physiology. So I’m kind of pumped for that. Yeah. And then, Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what will be in that what’s in that lecture today? So what was so what are you talking about with this team. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. So so just so basics of of physiology, so just kind of understanding, some of the core components. So, you know, what is homeostasis? You know, why is physiology research interesting? Gilliland, you know, why do we care about it at whoops or just kind of helping people understand the research aspect of of some of the things that we do here here at whoop And then really just kind of, using the the, obviously, we’re physiological monitoring device. Right? So, data science team is is building our algorithms so and a lot of those folks don’t have backgrounds necessarily in physiology. So what we’re trying to do is just, you know, give them a basic understanding so kind of a science of whoops, so really thinking about physiology through the lens of a boop, you know, across sleep, strain, recovery. So they can kind of understand, Alright. How do how do certain behaviors, drive, you know, your internal status? So your ability to kind of maintain homeostasis or adapt to stimulus. You know, there are definitely, you know, behaviors that we’re driving people towards that will help them, be able to adapt to stress in, a more functional way. And that’s really core to kind of what we’re we do at Woop. Right? We wanna give people information so they resurface data that helps them understand how they’re adapting to stimulus. And, you know, am I adapting in a functional way? So that is is, you know, the demands, of my of the body of the organism. You know, am I am I kind of, enabling, am I living in a way that allows me to kind of match my the demand of my environment. So kind of understanding that connection, or or their mismatches, you know, and what does non functional kind of adaptation look like? So, yeah, so that’s kind of Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Kristen Holmes: what the, yeah, the presentation was Speaker Brett Gilliland: So if you can, give us, give our listeners just the the whoop commercial if you of what is a whoop. Obviously, I wear it, it’s my sleep, my recovery, my strain, you know, stress. All those great things, but give us give us the whoop from the inside What’s that commercial and and what is a wheel? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s a twenty four seven physiological monitor device. We’re aiming to kind of coach you toward behaviors that will help you control the trajectory of your health. That’s really what we’re after. Like, we wanna help you, Brett, understand your physiology better so you can, make choices that will, allow you to be more present in, in your life and give you more energy, and, and ultimately, I think live your values kinda to go back to the very first thing that we talked about. Like, you know, it’s all about, like, do I have the energy and and the the presence and the attention, to be able to, do the things that I care about in my life. And really I think that’s that’s our kind of our core mission. It’s not a watch. So there’s no watch face. It’s, and as a result, we’re able to put all of our computational power into kind of, the fidelity of of collecting every single heartbeat you know, at a at a beautiful sampling rates, industry kind of standard. So as a result, our underlying data is really, really good and enables us to build features that help you understand, how your you know, how you’re sleeping, how you’re recovering, and the kind of, what type of load you’re putting on your body. We help you understand your stress so we have this really cool new feature, called the stress monitor that helps you understand your your stress throughout the day. So this is non activity stress, so not the stress from my track workout, but the stress that, I’m incurring in other aspects, parts of my day. And we have a strength trainer feature. So, where we can actually quantify the neuromuscular load, of your of your workout and feed that into our recovery and and also kind of help you get credit for those those strength training workouts, which is always kind of a pain point for our members because It’s very cardiovascular, you know, our strain score is very cardiovascular. And as a result, you know, I do a track workout. I get a twelve strain. But I go into the gym and I feel like I crush myself in, you know, a similar kind of way, but I only get a seven, and that has always been a little bit of a pain point But now that we can actually measure your neuromuscular kind of, load and and effort, we’re able to actually, quantify that and kind of give you, commensurate credit, for that. And and I think most importantly kind of help you understand how you’re recovering from that load. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I I love the stress monitor. I just this on a podcast the other day I was talking about and actually pulled it up during a podcast where sometimes people are like, oh my gosh, I gotta be you know, this person was live in the studio with this and it’s, you know, I’m it’s it’s nerve wracking. It it could be all this stuff. Right? You could think that’s a high stress situation. But when I pulled it up to prove a point and when I’m doing this with clients as well, I was, like, at a point eight on the stress meter. Wow. Which is low. Right? Which for me and correct me if I’m wrong here, but that tells me that I’m doing something that I love to do. Right? I’m in line my values. I love sitting with my clients. I love sitting in the podcast learning. Like, that’s a big deal versus something else that could be super stressful. Then I can go back throughout my day and look, where was my stressful moments? Get more of that on my calendar or less of that on my calendar. Is that a fair way to be using that? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I think that’s a a beautiful story. And and yeah. I mean, I think if we how we perceive stress is really, really important. And it’s gonna impact our physiology. It’s gonna impact our heart. Right? If I perceive that stress to be good, you know, I am gonna that stress will maybe it could look the same on the graph. As if I perceive it bad, but my ability to recover from that stress is, likely gonna be better than if that if I perceive that stress to be bad. So there’s kind of that component that I think is interesting and important for people to understand lots of science behind that. But I think the other thing too, Brad, is like you it also might speak to just your fitness level too. So, you know, what might be kind of even if someone was doing exactly the same thing. Well, so let’s say you and I, we’re both, like, loving what we’re doing right now. Like, this conversation’s, like, super excited and it’s it’s aligned with, like, what we value. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m at a I’m at a point three right now. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of that is just, is your comfort level in the setting is, yeah, the alignment, right, like you’re just fully aligned. You have a really good baseline fitness you know, some people are gonna rev higher just because they’re not as fit. Right? So, so yeah, I think there’s like a lot of things kind of happening probably that, give you that low stress. But but, yeah, I mean, generally speaking, like, you know, and you have a green recovery today. So your body is, like, really primed to adapt to all sorts of different types of stimulus today, including kind of the cognitive, stimulus. And there is no question that, you know, if you’re living your values, you know, your behaviors are, you know, aligned with what you say you care about, and you’re incorporating you know, different modes of of exercise and you’re, you know, keeping your heart healthy. You are gonna have a lower stress score. And the other thing that we see correlate with kind of your daytime stress is, is how you sleep at night. So if you have really so if your perception and this is just like we need to do like a proper studies. So this is just anti data, but it seems that if you perceive stress bad and you’ve got really bouncy, high stress throughout the day, you know, unmanaged stress that will rear its head in sleep. So when you look at your stress monitor, you wanna have a really flat sleep. Like, you wanna have really low sleep. So that’s something to kinda keep an eye out for. And I noticed for me, when I am not incorporating my breath work. And when I talked about my day, movement’s important, and also kind of getting in just 05:30 seconds, five sets or reps, I guess, of of thirty seconds of of breathing. I try to do that throughout the day to kind of mitigate that negative stress accumulation. So I think if we’re if we’re not managing stress throughout the day proactively, it can rear its head in sleep, and that’s definitely you know, a relationship that we see on stress monitors Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. — is kind of unmanaged daytime stress, and and kind of how bouncy your sleep is. Speaker Brett Gilliland: K. That and that’s I love the awareness of that. So that that’s helpful. And and so maybe somebody that doesn’t wear a whoop yet, well, hopefully they’ll all go buy a whoop right now. Right? That’s right. You’ll buy this. It’s just a monthly fee and you get an unbelievable amount of data. And I what I love is I was just with a guy, golfing in a in a charity golf term on Monday, and he was wearing So, you know, we spent, you know, an hour probably throughout the day talking about whoop, which is great. Speaker Kristen Holmes: I mean, Speaker Brett Gilliland: he doesn’t do the journal. I’m like, dude, you gotta do the journal. I’m like, the the monthly stuff you get at the end of the month. Just tell me what what helps my sleep, what hurts it, what helps my recovery, what doesn’t. But for somebody that doesn’t listen, or doesn’t and I’m sorry, doesn’t wear a woot that talk about that breathing thing. Like, how important is that throughout your day? I can’t track it because I don’t wear one, but if I did, what’s that doing for me? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. You know, it’s it’s it’s such a, I suppose simple intervention, and I and I think what’s really powerful about our breath is it’s always with us, you know, and and we can kind of be, you know, make conscious choices of around how we breathe for the most part. You know, I think we wanna try to nasal breathe as often as possible. So if you kinda notice yourself walking around with your mouth open in not talking or eating, close your mouth. And I think, you know, there are, like, it’s tape that you can wear over your mouth. Let me Speaker Brett Gilliland: give me one of my questions. Speaker Kristen Holmes: So, yeah, which can be super helpful when you’re trying to build a habit. You know, my son, and my daughter both you know, had to were kind of mouth breathers. And, and, yeah, so taping the mouth when they’re just watching a TV show or on, you know, or doing homework or whatever. But I think becoming an out of nasal breather is very, very important, and a very strong relationship between, cardiovascular health and, your ability to sleep at night. So managing kind of breath throughout the day is very, very important. So you wanna become a nasal beater. And then, I think on top of that, we wanna make sure that and and this is related, but, slightly different. We wanna make sure that we’re, I guess, with every bout of kind of stress that we incur over the course of the day. So let’s say, you know, even though we both perceive this as as good stress, we still need to recover from it. Right? So, you know, after the session doing, you know, thirty seconds of, you know, slow paced breathing, is a great way to, kind of deactivate the nervous system. Right? So even though your stress is really low right now, you’re still, like, slightly at more activated than you would, maybe, in another scenario, right, where you’re not engaged in, like, thinking and, so you wanna just make sure that over the course of the day, you’re having these activated moments, which is awesome and important. And then you’re mapping it with appropriate levels of deactivation. So we’re talking about it from an autonomic nervous system perspective. Right? So if you’re constantly activated, Right? And not mapping that activation with moments of deactivation, you end up building stress. And and these are just kind of acute moments, but they end up being kind of, they end up becoming kind of it becomes more chronic stress, right, if we’re not it. Right? We our body can only, manage activation for so long. So, you know, mapping that activation with moments of of deactivation, the thirty seconds of just, a shorter inhale extended exhale. You can do in through the nose, out through the mouth, or in through the nose, out through the nose, you know, for thirty seconds, you know, four or five times a day will actually go a long, long way to helping mitigate that negative stress accumulation, and most important help you fall asleep and stay asleep at night. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. See, I love this because, you know, I talk a lot about meditation. That that really helped me get through a I’m a very I was. Still am. Very anxious person. Lot of nerves. Right? But the, meditation changed my life. I mean, it literally changed my life of being able to look at anxiety as a ally as a friend, it’s probably never gonna go away, but now how to control it. But I’ve also learned, you know, when I’m in stressful situations, just may maybe you’re in a meeting. Is that breathing part is you can, quote, unquote, meditate or breathe, you know, and lower that heart rate in a meeting, right, without somebody even knowing. That you’re doing that. And I think it’s just so critically important. I love hearing you talk about it. And because we we take it for granted. Right? We wake up. We’re breathing. We go to sleep, we’re breathing. And middle of the night, we’re breathing. It’s like you just do it. But the more you consciously focus on it, the better it is and the better you can perform throughout your day. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. And and I think it’s just, under it’s, I think, underrated as, like, such an important, like, key to help. You know, it’s, like, it it’s the buried entry is actually really low. You know, like, we just literally is closing our mouth. Like Yeah. You know, I I I don’t, you know, have the the actual numbers of of how that actually helps our health span, but it it’s it’s pretty massive, especially given how much we breathe. Right? We wanna make sure that we’re breathing properly. Right? We we haven’t, you know, we’re not, you know, a lot of this mouth breathing is is just a function of modernity. Right? So, yeah, we just need to get get back to nasal breathing, and Yeah. And I and I think, you know, it it’s our our muscles will work more effectively. Our brain is gonna work more effectively. You know, every organ cell tissue in our body, is gonna, work more effectively. So, yeah, nasal breathing is is, I think, really important. And then, and then that breath work. Well, it’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: cool because I’ve seen more and more people, you know, tape their mouth and do all that stuff either while they’re sleeping or while they’re working out. Yep. And while I was, you know, Instagram talking you, getting my research for today. I, you know, I saw you did one, like, oh, three and a half years ago. You were Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: The portal is both. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I’m like, alright. There’s something to this. If she’s doing this three plus years ago, I’m like, alright. There’s something there. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I’ve totally Yeah. I mean, at this point, like, I I don’t have to tape my mouth anymore. But, yeah, I was trying to actually I was taping it during, wait session, so where I really struggle to kind of, keep my mouth closed. Yeah. But, yeah, I was just kind of, yeah, so that that was a a post run about to get into my weight session, and, yeah, I was just trying to kinda ramp up the I guess, difficulty, just by focusing on nasal breathing. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Incredible. Let’s talk about synchronizing our circadian rhythm. What that means. Why is that so important? Let’s talk about it. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. This is another one. I think, right, with breathing, that I think people don’t necessarily, maybe understand or think about or or realize, like, how powerful of a lever it is to improving really every aspect of of human health. So our bodies are naturally, want to naturally align to the light dark cycle. So, you know, right now, it’s day time. So the sun is out. And my body is taking in cues from the environment. It’s taking in cues from my behaviors as well. So when I eat, when I go to bed, when I wake up, when I exercise, you know, when is that mo those moments of stress, when is that the moments of relaxation? So all of these things are are really, are are the cues, the the most important cues that, are gonna tell my body my cells, my tissues, my organs, what it is they need to do. And when we are behaving out of sync, to the light dark cycle that has that puts enormous, stress on my system. So you can think about when I’m aligned, so that’s it’s, you know, it’s the daytime, and I’m getting lots of natural light my body is really happy and it feels safe because it’s it’s what it’s what is it being what my body is expecting indogenously is being kind of confirmed and validated with what’s happening externally. So there’s we call that circadian alignment. When I am awake, for example, when my body thinks it should be sleeping, that puts huge amounts of stress on my body. And as a result, my body feels unsafe. And when your body feels unsafe, it activates the sympathetic branch of the nervous system. So thank cortisol adrenaline. Right? Like, we we need that we need that activation in certain moments during the day, but we don’t want it during when during the night when we should be sleeping. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: So, so that’s just one example of kind of desynchronization and we know from the literature, the extensive literature, when we are when our circadian rhythms are desynchronized, that leads to all sorts of deleterious health outcomes. So we know that you know, I’ll I’ll save some of the really morbid, night shift worker, data because I know it’s like I’ve Speaker Brett Gilliland: read those studies that you guys put in the the in your deal. It’s terrible. Speaker Kristen Holmes: I it’s really tough and, you know, there’s other levers that I think that people can kind of pull to offset some of those negative effects of being awake during, you know, the biological night. But, but bottom line, folks want to try to, create as much synchronization, as much alignment with kind of, the natural light dark cycle. So that’s kind of number one. So, you know, morning, you wanna get as much natural light as humanly possible. You know, and it doesn’t take that much, but get yourself outside, you know, within an hour of waking up, you want, you know, five to twenty minutes, I, you know, an hour if you can swing and I, and I know that’s not practical for everyone, but, but do your best to get outside. That’s gonna set off a just a cascade of, I guess, information that that, you know, to your cells and your tissues and organs that are gonna tell them what it is that they need to do. That it’s time to be awake. This is really important information, to kind of keep you, healthy. The next piece, necessitating kind of lever is at when the sun goes down, you want to restrict light. I think it’s important for folks to note to on stand that we actually haven’t adapted as the species to, blue light after the sun goes down. Again, we think about it if our for anchor principle is about our make helping my body feel safe. This is a a core component when I am exposing myself to a lot of bright artificial light after the sun goes down. Again, my body doesn’t feel safe. I don’t end up producing melatonin, which is the the kind of hormone of darkness, and, melatonin only gets only gets released when, there is darkness. So if I am exposing myself to huge amounts of artificial light, it’s gonna be really hard to fall asleep. And melatonin isn’t just about making me fall asleep. It has neuroprotective, effects. It, melatonin, reduces cancer proneness. It it has just a, a wide ranging, impact on our on our kind of Gilliland and and when we’re depriving ourselves of of that, where, you know, that will come at a a huge cost. So light and managing light is kind of the number one, I think, circadian behavior. The second piece, of information that our body is trying to, to, align to is when you’re eating your meals. You wanna try to eat all your calories when the sun is up ideally. That is when our our body is most primed to metabolize food, and that is when it’s expecting to have to digest food. When you eat outside, of the, of of daylight hours. Again, that it it’s metabolically. It’s very expensive. Your body has to work you know, exponentially harder, to metabolize that food because it’s just it’s it’s not interested in digesting food. It’s interested in deactivating and resting. And we see at population levels data on whoop. And folks report that they’re eating, food within two hours of bed, we see huge negative impacts on sleep, So their ability to drop into deeper stages of sleep, we see negative impact on recovery, markers of recovery, so heart rate and and resting heart rate, respiratory rate. So Tim restricted eating is what we kind of call it. We call it consolidating, and time restricted eating is different than fasting. Fasting has a caloric restriction component. This is really just consolidating all of your calories within, a a window of time, 08:10, twelve hours, ideally when the sun is up. Yeah. So that’s like the second lever that’s, like, really critical. And then, the final lever that I’ll I’ll note is just you know, going to bed and waking up at consistent times. And what will enable you to do that is, restricting light after the sun goes down and seeing light first thing when you wake up. And when you do that, you will fall asleep and stay asleep generally. Have just this beautiful restorative sleep for the most part. So but sleeping stabilizing sleep wake time, and we see in our data, you know, for every minute after forty five minutes, of variability of when you go to bed and when you wake up. We see, decreases in, heart rate variability, which is negative, and increases in resting heart rate. So you wanna try to Yeah. So you wanna try to keep that window variability as narrow as possible in terms of when you wake up and when you go to bed. You don’t wanna have, like, you know, you don’t want it to be you know, an hour, two hours, three hours. Like, you wanna try to keep that band as as narrow as possible. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It it’s, so I’m on the insights on the whoop tab or the whoop app and, it it’s funny. So a couple of them I wanna go through. So to to confirm what you’re saying there, obviously, you’re much smarter than I am, and you don’t need my confirmation, but My consistent wait time is eight percent added to my recovery, and my consistent bedtime is five percent. You know, so those may not sound like a big deal to be, but five to eighty percent is a big number. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Right? That’s that’s sign that’s clinically significant. Yes. Yeah. There are huge huge changes. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And and so and then, the other one, and this is one of the biggest helpers for me. And you guys do that nice little push notification. Tell me, hey, Brett, you know, go to bed. You know? And so sometimes I’m like, shut up, whoop, you know, I don’t wanna hear you. I know. I need to go to bed. Right? Speaker Kristen Holmes: I know. I know. Speaker Brett Gilliland: But the sleep performance. Right? Speaker Kristen Holmes: One more show. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Seventy five percent plus sleep performance was seven percent. So that’s controllable. Control the controllables. Right? So now I know if I just put myself to bed like you would a child, I’m gonna be better off tomorrow, you know. And so the the one that I’m that I’m passing it by all the time is, a device in bed. I give myself some time, not every night, but sometimes ten to twenty percent or ten to twenty minutes of time with my phone, maybe just brainlessly scroll or whatever. I have a four percent more recovery better recovery when I get my device versus not having my device. That one’s weird to me. Now I’m usually wearing blue light blocking glasses, So I don’t know if that is offsetting it. I don’t know, but Speaker Kristen Holmes: it’s weird. For sure is. Yeah. So I think I think if we’re wearing blue light blocking glass, The lights generally are kind of dim, and we’ve got, you know, the on the phone, we’ve got the, you know, the filters on. That will definitely no question that that, I I I would say that I don’t know if it mitigates the the impact entirely, but as long as you’re falling asleep, not having a hard time falling asleep and you’re staying asleep, oftentimes we’ll fall asleep, but then we’ll end up with fragmented sleep. So I would look at your sleep quality, on the days where, Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Because sleep performance is more of just a function. You said that it it’s related. It says, it improves sleep performance. What was the metric that it improved? Speaker Brett Gilliland: It, let’s go back to it. Performed, positive impact, accounting of the four percent impact, on my recovery. Speaker Kristen Holmes: On recovery? Okay. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Alright. So Yeah. So it’d be interesting to see kinda how it might impact, the quality of your sleep because we know that But then these are correlations. Right? It’s not causation. So I just keep, you know, keep that in mind. And, you know, we’re not able to kind of perfectly constrain our models necessarily. So, you know, there’s gonna be some where you’re like, oh, wow. This is interesting. Yeah. But that said, like, you know what? Scrolling for you is relaxing. Like it’s — Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Kristen Holmes: you’re kinda checking, meant some sort of mental box that’s important. And as a result, like, you know, it doesn’t have a negative impact. So when you are able to kind of go through and then part of it too is routine. Like, I think it’s like we’ve got this stack of behaviors in the lead up to bed that are gonna either promote our our sleep and recovery or they’re they’re not gonna promote our sleep and recoveries. That is just a behavior that Yeah. That seems to not have a negative impact. I’d be interested on on how impact is further. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: As we’re thinking about it, talking about it, it’s it also makes me thing too is, like, that’s maybe the one time in my day where I’m not, you know, doing something for work or doing something that nobody needs me. It’s just, like, I I call it Brett Time. Right? It’s like this is I can just chill. Right? And just kinda brainlessly look at something. And it’s people I enjoy to follow. Right? I get I get inspired. So Yeah. It’s probably that. So that’s good stuff. Let’s dive into if we can a little bit about, cold plunge versus sauna we talked about, obviously, the importance of sleep, but I wrote down cold plunge, sauna, sleep, hydration, movement. Those are all, you know, critically important to anybody that wants to, you know, do anything in life, but Talk about the cold plunge versus the sauna. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Okay. So I this is yeah. This would be part of the physiology lectures talking about this, concept of Hormesis. And everyone should kind of understand that that concept is basically what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. And and that’s really what’s happening with Sauna, you know, these stream temperatures, you know, sauna and cold plunge are kind of creating, this phenomenon that’s called Corimesis. It’s it’s a stress. You’re you’re stressing the the body, in a in a functional way, that’s, that allows you to, basically, adapt to future stress in a more functional way. So it’s kind of like, you know, so you wanna for organisms, like, it’s really important that they undergo certain amounts of stress. And and frankly, modernity has, like, removed so much of that stress. And as a result, we have become, I think, a lot softer. The comfort crisis, Michael Easter. I actually just talked to him the other day. He’s, like, such a fascinating man, but, But I, you know, I think that we need to that’s why I think you see this emergence of, like, you know, people engaging in Gilliland cold plunge because, you know, we just don’t actually get enough stress, that type of stress throughout the day, like environmental stress. Right? And and what I’m talking about is, you know, kind of extreme heat and and stream Gilliland, like, our body having to kind of adapt and work through that is actually, is is important. And so, that said, there are there is a point of diminishing returns in both of these modalities. So, you know, Sauna, I think the recommendation is, you know, force for four by twenty minutes, at, I think, you know, one eighty degrees Fahrenheit, will elicit, you know, tons of positive effects on, on on the them. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: And cold plunge, I think very simply, you know, I think if you I think you it’s really not that cold. Like, you can do fifty nine degrees or less. You know, the the colder, probably the shorter amount of time. I think fifty nine degrees, you probably need to spend five or six minutes in a in temperature like that to kinda elicit the the effect. But from what we’ve seen, you know, twelve minutes per week, divided into kind of four sessions, where you’re you know, kind of shocking the system, cold shock heat shock, there’s lots of, you know, you release endorphins and, you know, so there’s like a cascade of of really positive, you know, neurobiological kind of components that, that I think p get people to come keep coming back to these modalities. It’s, like, painful as you’re doing it, especially the cold But, but afterwards, you know, you get this, like, you know, hit a dopamine and, yeah, and you feel really good. But but really what that what that does, and and I think when we talk think about this principally. You know, there’s just a bunch of behaviors that we can engage in that’s, kind of stress our our system and in a in a in a way that’s gonna allow us to adapt to future staff stress, more more functionally. So I think when we think about cold hot. Like that it there’s an immune, immuno protective, element to that as well. So we’re increasing our resilience, right, by undergoing this kind of short term intentional, temporary stress. Right? And it’s important to, like, be be getting thrown into a thirty two two degree a lake, off a boat without knowing I mean, and and not knowing if I can recover them, that that is not good stress. Right? Like that’s — Right. Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Kristen Holmes: that’s So what I’m talking about is is really intentionally kind of, you know, choosing these modalities. So that intention I think is is is kind of part of the the package. But, But, yeah, really core. You mentioned hydration. We also see that really, really strongly to recovery when people are under under hydrated, we see, you know, that impact recovery really significantly. So just, yeah, getting, you know, just like an ounce for every, you know, pound of of, for, you know, you know, per pound is is per prescription. If you’re working out a lot Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So if a hundred and seventy pounds, I gotta I gotta drink a hundred and seventy Speaker Kristen Holmes: dollars a lot. Yeah. And it’s probably, like, maybe point seven, point six. It just depends on your activity. Well, if you’re not, like, out and about a ton, and working out hard, Yeah. I I’d say point six point seven. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Got it. Yeah. Perfect. Let’s let’s talk about this new book you’ve got. Speaking of that, we’ll take a water break here. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I know. Yeah. So I I actually I wrote, a poem for my daughter, for for, Christmas. And it was entitled yes, and it was just kind of all the lessons I had kind of learned in my life. But but we’re, not all of the lessons, but, just around, you know, how do we how do we think about, What what we what do we what do we what do we say yes to? And and and in a in and I kinda try to put a positive spin. We talk all about oh, what are we saying no to? And I just wanted, like, kind of a set of principles for her where she can kind of think about, alright, what are the things that we actually say yes to? And you know, you know, yes to the curves of the pedals, the great problems you wanna solve. Like, you know, so it was really around, like, you know, saying yes to the great problems you wanna solve, like, you know, saying, you know, and so it was like kind of an emotional, kind of journey, you know, for me to kind of, I think, write this, write this book. But it started out just as, you know, really a poem, and I I framed it for my daughter. And you know, and she was like, mom, she’s like, I really think other girls would really benefit from these messages. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Wow. — Speaker Kristen Holmes: and, yeah, which is, like, so sweet of her to say. And And she’s like, you should put this into a little book. And so, I started working on the illustrations, and, Yeah. And and just, yeah, it just published it a month ago. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. I love it. I know it’s on your Instagram bio that you can find a link there and buy that on Amazon. So we’ll put that in the show notes and how cool. I mean, think about even the mindset there. Like, I mean, you just kinda set it and Like, it’s just normal in your household. Your daughter’s, like, put that into a book. Speaker Kristen Holmes: When you Speaker Brett Gilliland: think about that, right? Like Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Not everybody just thinks about, hey, let’s take a poem and turn into a book. Like, anything is possible. Right? I mean, that’s a big deal. That’s a Speaker Kristen Holmes: really big deal. Yeah. It it was it was really a really sweet moment. I yeah. And I and I don’t know. I never really asked her, like, kind of why she said that. But I I think she was just you know, I I I feel like it resonated with her and and I think she was like, yeah, other other girls could really benefit from this message. But, yeah, it was it’s it’s neat that she kind of, like, put an action to it, you know? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s kinda Awesome. Awesome. I got a thousand more questions that I could ask, but I know you’ve you’re a busy person. So let’s, do one more question here. I got your Instagram up. I’m gonna have you we we call this the Instagram So you’re gonna pick a number between one and ten. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Okay. Seven. Speaker Brett Gilliland: K. Six oops. K. Now between one and Speaker Kristen Holmes: three. Two. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Alright. Number two is, right here. If you remember this legacy expeditions says, this is legacy expeditions team consisting mainly of former US special operation services members will attempt to skydive into all seven continents in seven days. We’ll try to raise seven million dollars, folds of honor. So talk to us about the importance of that post, and, and talk about that. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. So legacy expeditions is just this incredible, I suppose this company, owned by, former special operators, and the the whole goal is to kind of create these expeditions where they can, you know, shine a light on, in this case, folds are armor. You know, kind of create these really grueling expeditions that kind of give those former special operators, you know, a sense of purpose, admission. So kind of doing hard things is kind of what they are are kind of trained to do. And when they separate from, from, you know, their, you know, whatever Arm force they were kind of serving, sometimes that could be really hard. So there’s kind of a component of, you know, kinda doing something hard with a team So there’s there’s that fulfillment. And then, and then secondly, you know, because it’s like a grueling mission, it gets lots of press and, they’re able to leverage that press to raise money for, in this case, Volkswagen Barnner, which is, incredible organization that raises, money, gives money to, families who, have had a, a, it’s they’ve now extended to tactical athletes too. So firefighter police women, men, you know, armed armed forces. So if they had a, you know, a death, of of a parent that child can, be the benefit of of the educational of Speaker Brett Gilliland: the master. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. So I did for this team, I did, I did the physiology. So I kind of helped them understand, you know, how to prepare for this mission, just using the data. And then, we did a whole analysis of the data over the course of their mission to kind of just see happening physiologically in terms of strain and recovery and sleep. So it was, yeah, seven seven days, seven continents, seven jumps. So it’s it’s pretty amazing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, I lied, and so I got one more question. You can see it here in my microphone, f greater than p. Your future is greater than your pass. That’s our mission statement, our firm. So when you hear that, I’m helping people achieve a future greater than their past. I believe that’s exactly what Woop is doing. It’s exactly what you were doing. So what comes to mind when you hear that? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I mean, I I guess I go back to, like, one of the reasons why I joined Loop is I wanted to impact health at scale. And and I think a lot of what we actually what I do today, the choices I make today are going to position me and my future self either in a positive way or or a negative way. And and I think just the relationship between, you know, it’s like, what happened yesterday doesn’t, you know, It’s just there’s not a whole lot of need about it, but but be it but today, I have a ton of control, over the things that I I do, and I understand that that’s, you know, there’s a lot of privilege that comes with that. But I I think I’ve organized my life, and I’ve worked hard, and I’ve basically kind of created a scenario where I have a lot of choice and what I do, and, and how I live, and how I treat other people. And, I can make, you know, choices that are going to help my future self or or not. And, and I I so I suppose that’s kind of what I think about when. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I love it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, Kristen, thanks so much for being on the circuit of success. I mean, amazing takeaways for me today. I took a couple pages of notes, and, hopefully, people run out and get a whoop, and they’ll understand that. I get paid nothing for that. I just I think it’s an amazing thing to do, and, it’s it’s just it’s really helped change my life and make my choices, to be better every single day. What you want. Speaker Kristen Holmes: I love it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, so much for being with us.

On this episode of Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews professional Saint Louis City soccer player Josh Yaro. Josh talks about his journey from Ghana to the US, the importance of finding the right position, and taking criticism. He also emphasizes the need to care for one’s body and the importance of analytics and data in sports. Josh Yaro   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilliland, and I’ve got the privilege to interview Josh Yaro. Josh, how you doing, man? Speaker Josh Yaro: I’m good. How you doing? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m great. You Yaro. We’ve interviewed cardinal players. We’ve interviewed, you know, Blues people. We’ve interviewed all sorts of athletes and business leaders, but you’re the first professional Saint Louis City soccer player that I’ve got to interview. So It’s a big deal. It’s awesome. And you guys are having a great year. Speaker Josh Yaro: Wow. Yeah. Thank you. Well, that’s an almost out of hands for having me on the show. Yeah, it’s been a good year. It’s been a good year. I think, you know, started the season all through the world and we can maintain that, with excited to see how the nuances in, you know, goes for us and, you know, make the playoffs and and make a run for, you know, for a title title. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right. That’d be awesome, man. So maybe for our listeners that don’t know who you are. If you could, give us a little background. What’s made you the man you are today? I know you grew up in Ghana. Came here to college and then went to Georgetown and and had a great college career and and, but if you could give us a little background on who you are today. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I grew up in Ghana. I actually went to and I don’t think a lot of people know I actually went to high school in six states. So working Ghana came, to the States, when I was fifteen. So came to high school as private boarding school in in Santa Barbara, California. So, came as a sophomore, did that for three Yaro, ended up for Georgetown, played a job down for three seasons. So I was I was I was there for two and a half years. And then in twenty sixteen, I got drafted, to Philadelphia Union. So And I’ve been playing since then. So that’s, like, the the shortage, you know, who I am and my and, you know, my time Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what was it like growing up in Ghana? And and when did you, get introduced to the game of soccer? Know that that’s what you were gonna do for a living, hopefully. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I mean, it was it was awesome. It was great. Obviously, growing up around family, in a place that I’m really familiar with. Life was good. Life was great. Right? And, I mean, everyone that goes up and gone every kid plays the same sport, which is awkward. It, for me, it was really strange when I came to the US, you know, in high school, when kids were playing three different sports a year. That’s something I wasn’t used to. It’s because I put your group on Gana. You play only once for year round and that sucks. That’s what there is. I started cleaning up when I was about four years. Yes. And then later on, I joined an organized team. And then, run around when I was eleven, I joined an academy team, called the registry academy, and that’s that’s where, after doing that kind of because to be able to get into that kind of it’s really difficult. I mean, you have to try out as thousands of kids and and on the as well as possible. So at that point, you know, that I had what it took to become a professional. I, you know, I just worked my way out. But then again, it’s it’s difficult. You know, because every kid in Granite, Speaker 3: I think, I was fortunate to be fortunate actually. Speaker Josh Yaro: And so the competition is high, but Speaker 3: I think I was fortunate that I found myself involved in, Speaker Josh Yaro: you know, with my academy and the teammates around me and the development that Speaker 3: I’d, you know, contribute contributor. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. What what we were just talking about this today at lunch. Some guys, we went to a group of us went to lunch and We’re talking about what what point does somebody say, yeah, I’m a defensive player. I’m an offensive player. Right? What do you remember that time frame where he said, okay. You’re gonna be a center back and, you’re gonna play defense. You’re not gonna go to school goals and do all those things? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I do because the first position I have picked is what I play now and I played in the whole life. So, a lot of kids usually, I mean, when you’re growing up, a lot of kids usually just play wherever I didn’t kind of fear that I was, like, I picked one of the stuff with it. So, so, let it stay in position my whole life, which which is crazy. But yeah, I’ve enjoyed it. And I think I know a lot of plans there. You know, used to be sent on me. It’s on my announcement box, so it used to be strike us, and I’m not paying a centimeter or extend this, and it’s they’re all over the place. But, you know, from day one, I just purchased this is the position I want, and I stuck with it, and I stuck with Speaker 3: my whole lot. Hold on. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So happy you did. And would you recommend that for players now? Or do you think it’s good to bound bounce around? Because in before I Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I I think it’s good to bounce around because Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker 3: Okay. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Josh Yaro: and it’s you get experience in different positions. You Gilliland different positions. It’s every position is unique and has a different skill set. So, yeah, just trying different things because they also help, you know, figure out, okay, which 1AM I looking at? What are my strengths and Speaker 3: what is the best position. Speaker Josh Yaro: So, yeah, definitely, I definitely have been college kids that I’ve grown up to try different positions. I did I actually did the try, you know, a few out of positions and I was growing up. Play that a few times. I I think, geez, that’s amazing. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, that center back’s a big job, man because, you know, you’re the last line. You’re the last line of defense here before you leave the goalie on his own, don’t you? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. No. I mean, again, a lot of people look at it, like, you don’t run as much as maybe, you know, you have midfielders Speaker 3: or the guys in front of Speaker Josh Yaro: you, but it’s it’s tough because I the example I always give is that If you are a striker and you lose the ball, you have your midfielders, you have your defenders, and you have your keeper to make play, you know, so that that doesn’t resolve me. So if you’re a midfielder, you have your defender, you have your goal to make a play. If you are a center back, and make a mistake. Well, your only hope is the goalie, you know. Yeah. Like, the the further back you go, it becomes a lot more risky. I sent him some goalies. Go, we make some mistake. I think nobody, you know, nobody gets covered. It’s a tough position in that sense. Mentally, you just you know, when you make a mistake, you have to move on. And it’s, it’s a really tough position. But at the same time, I think I was never joked out, some of the smartest players, you know, I don’t I don’t know. I don’t think so. Speaker 3: That’s really what I think because we basically talked to such as you just can’t see. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, you you were saying about telling kids. And what advice would you have for those kids? You know, I think about I’ve got four boys and they all play soccer and soccer season’s going on right now. And so What advice would you have for kids now to one get, you know, continue to get better, but also to challenge themselves and some daily habits they need to be focusing on? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I think a lot of it, it’s just, developing at your own pace, because it’s just like it’s in life, you know, you look at people that you start with, might be on the same team. You might be the same age group, and everyone’s development is different. You know, some people, it’s an upward development, and it should just keep going up. Addresses, you know, taking two steps, and then they want to get back and back. And that’s okay. Just don’t look at other people’s development and get discouraged by that. As long as you show up every day, you listen to your coaches, you take criticism Gilliland you put in the work, because I think Sometimes people think it’s easy, you know, just walk walk on the field and things are gonna happen. It it takes a lot of hard work, a lot of dedication. And as long as you, you know, you have the work ethic because everything else, you know, will come. If if you are educated enough, if you have the work ethic, Yeah. You might not be good at something, but if you work at it diligently, you’re, you’re, you’re going to become better at it, and just being honest with yourself as well. You know, because you have to at some point, realize, well, let’s go set up what, what you’re looking at, not saying is limit yourself. So but working forward with your strengths, and things that are weakness, or it’s seen as a weakness, work on that to help it become a strength. It might not be your strength at least. You know, you you work on it to make it better for yourself. And the important thing especially for kids is just enjoy it. Because I don’t really want to enjoy and join. And even at this level, I know it’s it’s it’s it’s my job, you know, to go on the end of end, you know, game to do all that, but If you’re not enjoying it, I mean, it’s miserable. It’s — Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Josh Yaro: and it becomes really, okay, I I have to go straightening off. Yes, I’m not again. But if you can work up every day and enjoy it, have a smile on the first face while using it, what Speaker 3: makes makes each difference. Speaker Josh Yaro: So for case, I always don’t keep just enjoy it. Enjoy, enjoy the process, enjoy the learning process, enjoy the hard work, and work as a half science, and, you know, just figure out insights and stuff, figure out Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love you. So then enjoy the hard work, enjoy the process. Right? And enjoy even sometimes we nobody wants to mess up, but I think we put so much pressure on ourselves. Don’t we that I mess up and I think it’s gonna be perfect or I gotta go do this many goals or this many saves, whatever it may be. Just and try to enjoy that process like you’re saying. It’s huge. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. Because I mean, the, the only way you really learn is, is, is making mistakes. You know, it’s, it’s, and it’s just I can like, you know, all that you get and learn things that, maybe when you were twenty, you didn’t know. But I did even know those things because the council of experience. And the only way good experience is by making mistakes, I think. We often see mistakes as these horrible things. And they are bad. I mean, I don’t wanna make a mistake in the game because then there are leads to using or something like that. But at the end of the day, yeah, mistakes are gonna happen. It’s just how you how you react to it and how, you know, the direction after that, how you can advance on the instincts or is it on the machines if you’re able to learn from your mistakes and move on, now you, but now you, you know, you have something that you didn’t So Speaker Brett Gilliland: what do you do outside of practice? You know, now, but also even as a kid and whether you’re high school or college. I mean, obviously, the coaches say, be here from this time to this time, but There’s there’s more than just that. Right? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I mean, there’s more. I mean, even now when you look at it, it’s the time that I spend at work. It’s all processing. It’s it’s you know, it’s just a fraction of my time. Yeah. Yeah, and I think as athletes, we’re much more than, you know, what you see out there just on the field. It’s it’s everyone. It’s easy, your own ways. And I I tend to, you know, when you know, And it’s changed various parts of my life. I was in high school and college. It was different. And when I started playing, because I was doing college, so I go to art centers, because later in the day, now I’m done with college. So most of the time, I come home, realize for a bit, watch TV, sometimes sometimes do some wipes in my foundation dish, which I would have put back in. But most of the time, it’s just relaxing I’m taking care of my body. Because you quickly realize that your body is video body to work. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what do you what do you do from a, from a recovery standpoint? How do you how do you spend those times? Speaker Josh Yaro: So recovery. I mean, we have the ones in the the I’m fortunate and everyone in the team is really fortunate to have. It’s the amount of, you know, health, health, that we have, you know, outside of the field. We have trainers. We have, you know, chiropractic, we have doctors. We have every, you know, every possible possibly thinking, you know, for recovery. So, you know, we have our ice baths. We have, you know, prior therapy. We have massage therapist. We have some higher practice. It’s a lot of things that you can to to make sure that your body is taken care of. So, it’s been great that way. I do most of my staff, usually, you know, I had to train personally. Because I I have that itemized score score. Right. Yeah. But again, it’s crazy how much score science plays it’s easy. And do what we do. Because you look, you look back even like 10:15, twenty years ago, athletes didn’t have what we have, in terms Right. And now everything’s it’s down to assigning sciences, which is good because that means you can play for much longer than longer than you used to, your body must your body’s stronger and, recovers a lot quicker because they are the time to us to help you help Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think Tom Brady helped that. Right? Whether people like him or don’t like him. I mean, it’s, you know, you you see the the massage, the stretching, the the the whatever he calls it, his movement type stuff versus just, you know, going in and throwing weights around a weight room. That’s important, but there’s also all the other stuff that goes along with it. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, like, he’s he’s a part of the song. You know, when you look at someone, like, even if he’siano Ronaldo and that’s, and he’s study hate now and still perform, you know, and and I think a last part of it, it’s just just, you know, you know, has to do with full size. You know, your your body, the way you’re covered, the way you sleep, like everything is monitored now, and you can actually have a lot of information about how your body and how your body’s working and responding and all that stuff. And that’s that’s the main thing, you know, to me. And we are fortunate here, you know, a city that we have a lot of, knowledgeable people that help us with that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Big investment. Cold plunge never gets easier. Does it. It’s terrible. Speaker Josh Yaro: Again, I see all these videos of people that can go into cold plunge’s Gilliland I’m talking, like, extremely cold plunge — Right. For a long time number. That’s not it. I mean, they have, like, I mean, they have, like, eight to twelve minutes that I’m, I’m out. That’s So Speaker Brett Gilliland: you still go eight to twelve minutes in a cold plunge at what temperature? Speaker Josh Yaro: I mean, usually, it’s not I I have to look at what they said. I was supposed to go. I mean, anyway, Fifty, maybe. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Fifty. It’s cold. And it’s cold. I do them here and there, and it’s just brittle. It never gets easier. But, man, you’d feel like a million bucks when you get out of that thing. Don’t you? Speaker Josh Yaro: That’s how it does have in your body. Yeah. The second you get out, you can feel the difference between one and one. Got out. Like, it’s amazing and and for us, like, sometimes when you especially after games, when you play games, you don’t really realize I have to use it. So anything like that. And then two days, when you go into an ice bath, for instance, like, all those noises that you didn’t realize you had, taking care of it. When you have a glue to ice it, And so it has helped a lot, you know, in all the voice invoicing. I think the times behind the scenes, it’s pretty good. How Speaker Brett Gilliland: about saunas? You believe in saunas? Speaker Josh Yaro: Not a big fan. We we have the lot of other facility, but I might have. I’ve never really been into Speaker Brett Gilliland: Like, it’s too damn hot. Speaker Josh Yaro: I mean, I would do, like, the the cool tablet, prior to Timber, which pretty much keeps you just saying that it sets going into an icebox. Yeah. But but yeah. Big on songs. Yeah. Alright. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like them. I like it. I like going in them, but they’re, I like that over the cold, but Speaker Josh Yaro: I know the cold I can do it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I, you know, four, five, six minutes. But, so let’s turn to page a little bit. Obviously, big news in MLS this year with Messi joining. I’m sure you’re tired to talk about that or somebody asking about it. But when you hear that news, man, what’s that like as an MLS player that hears one of the greatest players if not the greatest player in the history of soccer is coming to play with y’all. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I mean, obviously, like, people talk about it a lot and rightfully so because it’s, it’s a big it’s a big moment in my history of the drink and mean, it just goes to show show you how the steps of the league has taken and how far the league has passed. You know, when the league started, Again, I don’t think anyone if I thought we get, you know, get to this point. And it’s it’s come so far. And could you see everyone that was, you know, involved in making that happen, because us, you know, he had another option. I was like, because I’ve taken his safety, but, to make MLS appealing. He just had one like him. It’s it’s it’s an unbelievable machine machine. So — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Josh Yaro: it’s great to have someone design the leak because he keeps the leak, he keeps the leak exposure. And you’ve seen, you know, even with his team, his former team is joining him and everyone is turning their attention Speaker 3: to nonetheless now because, yeah, you know, have someone like in their belief. So Speaker Josh Yaro: I think it’s great for the league. It’s great for us. Because again, it’s, again, I grew up watching English, you know, before we came to a floor and growing. Get into chance to use, to share a feel with some of my students. It’s amazing. Well, the same thing when I joined the league, you know, the guys like Steven Jarrod, Carlo, and guys that I grew up watching that when hiring, you know, all of a sudden, laying on the same field. I know that. It’s it’s an unbelievable, moment. So, yeah, I mean, it’s exciting. I don’t think city will get to play in Miami. The chances of assisting each other, again, yes, this line is as weird as we’re able to hit them. But, but, Speaker Brett Gilliland: yeah. Speaker Josh Yaro: Again, for the rest of the week, I think it’s it’s great. It’s great. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Wouldn’t be a bad deal though? Wouldn’t it be, doing a little slide tackle maybe stealing the ball from Messi and going down, making something happen? Speaker Josh Yaro: Well, that’d be nice. That’d be nice. Again, it’s just, you know, it’s just a surreal moment for for the league and for everyone. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Very cool. So who is the person that you grew up watching? Like, who’s the guy that you said, man, I I wanna kinda, you know, play like that guy. Obviously, be your own guy, but but that’s the person you idolized growing up? Speaker Josh Yaro: His name is Rio Pregnant and he cut in punches to another. He cut in government, and grew up actually on my remember going to make this guy. It’s really good. And I was actually fortunate that I got to meet him in two thousand and nine, when I was in Manchester, it was one of those things that it was a really cool moment. Just Yeah. I agree with watching you on admiring and all of a sudden it’s like face to face and it’s what a moment. But, yeah, he’s a guy that, I looked up to a lot. Really good player, the way that he plays and really cleaning anything. I tried to click, pick on some of, you know, the things that he does. I haven’t really found anyone that I like as much since he retired, but he he always be the guy who came up. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I, I was listening to you on another, oh, there’s a podcast of where I heard you, but you talked about your passion for, you know, wanting to be more than a soccer player. You wanna be involved in this community. And and so talk to us about why that’s so important to you because I think it’s amazing because you could just go cash a check, play some soccer, have some fun, and not necessarily have to give back. But here you are doing things like this, and you wanna be involved in the Saint Louis community. Talk to us about that. Speaker Josh Yaro: I’ve tried. I mean, since I got here last year, I’ve tried to, you know, be in the community. I’ve done it a few times in a few different ways. I think as athletes, we really fortunate that we get to live the life that we have. And you can completely know that we have a lot of support in these cities and for me, it’s a lot of dedication from the fans and for everything that they do for us. So Again, I want to be part of the community and not just, oh, I’m here for some of this. Like, but, yeah, that’s that’s that’s why I came here, but wanna be part of the community. I want I want to learn about this city. I want to know what’s going on. I want to involve, just a way to say things into the city. And depends, they give us so much every day. And I really do appreciate everything they do for us. So for me, that’s just my way of saying is, you know, thank you for allowing a city here. Thank you for the support. And and all the amazing things that, the city and the, and these fans as you promised for us. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, I know I I can speak for a lot of leaders in Saint Louis and just anybody in Saint Louis, but that, you know, it’s great to hear that, man. When a guy is in our community and new to our community and and once give back. So my philosophy in life is if you take a living from a community, you gotta give back to the community. And so it was great to hear that you were in line with that. And, that’s why it’s one of the reasons I was excited to chat with you. So let’s talk about a little bit about mindset perseverance, I looked at, you know, the games and studying you, you know, didn’t probably start out playing as much as you wanted to. Right? But you you had a great attitude. You kept putting in work. And now it seems like what? Last five of last seven games, something like that. You’ve started. You’re playing, you know, it’s like What was your attitude like? What was the culture like? When you mean nothing more as an athlete you wanna do than be out there? But how did you stay committed to what you were doing? And now, playing as much as your plant. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I mean, a lot of it, like I said, experience, and and I’ve been playing for a few years now. And you go through those moments, you know, it’s time to realize, you know, twenty eight, thirty guys, you know, all eleven guys can get out, you know, at the time. And in life, you’re gonna get opportunities. It’s it’s a matter of Yaro you prepared? Are you ready for the account? And for me, I think most of the time when when players are in position when they’re not turning, the mindset is, well, why should I train harder? Because know I’m not going to play, but that’s that’s that’s a lot because at some point it’s a long season and it’s it’s it’s it’s not gonna get called, you know, and And I think you’re not doing yourself any favors. If you’re not working hard in training, if you’re not putting the work, and if you’re not having a good you have to be a good teammate regardless of your situation. And for me, that was the thousand big piece, you know. Yeah. And everyone on the team plays a path because even if I’m training well. Well, that’s pushing the status and that’s making sense together every day training. So I’m contributing in that way even if I’m not playing, and That’s maybe that’s my role. And that’s so when I wasn’t playing, that was that was kind of my mindset. I’m gonna work hard. I’m gonna push the guys in front of me. And when I get the I’m gonna take them to take it Gilliland that’s what I did. So it’s tough to do that at the moment, because it hasn’t been easy. You know, there’s times going on. I have my moments, but, but, most of the time, though, I kind of switch my mindset to be in a place where I could, support my teammates regardless and work hard and make sure that I was really, I was prepared for when I joined the game. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And so talk more about that. I mean, I I call it your roommate. Like, everybody’s got a roommate and that roommate’s the the guy up here talking to us in our head. Right? And What did you do to silence that roommate and and make him be more positive when you could’ve gone the other route and been negative with it? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. Again, a lot of it, I think it’s it wasn’t easy in in any way, but a lot of it it can a little bit easier. I should say, because the experiences I’ve had playing. I’ve been a stewardess like that before, and I’ve seen the turnaround. And because nothing is really pendant. Like, the way that teams start in the beginning of the season is not how they’re gonna end. You know, there’s always a lot of changes in the line there’s always some of the games, the entries, the people who hang up the phone, and it’s it’s a lot of Gilliland so for me, it was it was a matter of, yeah, you know, you might have doubt that you never played, but there is a chance that you lose your mind. And, and for me, that that chance we got us a house small, it was. It’s what kept on going. And and also knowing that, yeah, I’ve seen this situation before and I’ve been in it before, and I turned it around. Done it before and I can do it again. And so, again, when I say experience, it’s it’s great. That’s that’s one of the instances where I think my experience or playing professionally for a few years now, hitting it. And so, yeah, you have your moments where, you know, like, you said, the guy up 06:20 not worth it, like, why you run an extra while you’re doing this, why you’re doing that, you’re not going to play, but you have to keep pushing yourself, you know, I know for a fact that everyone gets their chance, everyone gets their moment. And guys that get really disappointed are those that they get finally get the chance, I’m not even taking a ticket well, because they weren’t so great. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Love it. I love that mindset, man. That’s so many so much to learn. You can just do a podcast just on that question right there. So daily habits. So something I would see. If I followed you around for the next week, what am I seeing no mis items for you day in and day out? Speaker Josh Yaro: Well, then, I mean, change my life. It’s really simple. I wake up. I get ready. I go to work. I come back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: How long are you working? Like, when you say work, how long are you doing that? Speaker Josh Yaro: I mean, so I have to report all it, to the facility around 09:30 every morning, but I usually get there around 08:45 to nine. And and then I’m usually there till about 2PM PM. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Josh Yaro: And so, yeah, just just that. And then, I mean, a big problem with it because you realize that your body is what you work with. And so in any way to kind of take care of that all, you know, make sure that it’s in the best possible condition. You know, it’s it’s it’s you do that to optimize your chances of being able to perform the next days. And I try, I mean, I’ve I don’t drink alcohol. I don’t drink coffee. I feel, you know, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Just anything to give me kind of like the the the edge, you know, because your body has to recover and it has to be able to be able to perform at a higher level than day. So my day’s afternoon. Not not much clothes on it. You know, I maybe in the evenings, I go on a walk with. With my girlfriend and, you know, just uneven escrow and, yeah, to close for the day. But most of the time, just, you know, Speaker Brett Gilliland: Just chilling. Taking care of your body, man, because that’s that’s the, that’s the asset. That’s the asset. So when you see or hear the words, achieving a future greater than your past, what would come to mind for you? Speaker Josh Yaro: I mean, that’s that. Because, again, as athlete, I think as an athlete, I think you’re always kind of in that mindset. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Josh Yaro: Because you have to always consistently push yourself to perform, and you have to always perform better than the previous because it’s encompasses our competitive sports. And and your best yesterday, you know, might not be good enough for the next day because everyone else is pushing themselves in different ways. And so, for me, just just You know, like I said, continue getting game minutes, and, I’ve just been better than what’s the biggest game, you know, in a lot way to anything. And and that’s that’s measured in a different way because, you know, like everything, like I said, with four times, everything that we do is monitor. So, like, how hard I’m working, how hard I’m running all that from the previous day I have. So if I wanna be better, I think, well, maybe I gotta beat those numbers the next day. Maybe the game, maybe the game that I had last week or this week, what can I do better, to even make it a better game than last week and then just keep building on that? So yeah, it’s in the contact condition with myself. I guess that’s how I see it. Because once you start, compete against someone else, you kind of on the side of cellular, because you have to realize that everyone is weak and everyone is built differently. Because if you look at, again, for example, all the sunavirus that we have not roster. Everyone’s different. Everyone’s getting style is different and everyone has unique styles and everything. And so once you start comparing yourself to someone else, if you’ve lost a blah, like, it’s when it was, say, you are your own competition, that’s that’s true. I found that to be true a lot. Because if you can compete against yourself and you can be better, then you want a previous day, then I think you’ve learned a lot And, yeah, another day, if your best is not good enough, but you’re still achieving at your best best. I think, you know, you’re doing your right. Right? Yeah. You’re doing your right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s all. So when you when you play a game, did are you wearing those vest and they’ll tell you game or practice and it you know, exactly how fast you got from point a to point b and how much running you did. And so so talk to us about that. After a game or practice, what do you personally do or what what is kind of the team do to that those analytics. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. So, I mean, we have people that are in charge of that. And every session, there’s a number that you have to hit. So I think everyone on our team pretty much is done every day. And then that’s just the way that our team is built. It’s really hardworking themselves. No issues with that. You can have your data. Like, after every game, they send us all the data in the day, how fast you’re running, how far you run, like, how have you easily read? I’m telling you every possible information that you could get. It’s it’s it’s provided to me. So you can look at it. You can compare that to the, you know, the previous week’s, game, and and every game is different as well, because some games maybe you might be chasing the game, and so it’s a lot more rotten for you or some game you in control, so you’re not running as much as possible. Yeah. So it’s it’s you you have to analyze the data based on based on on game places, you know, I know. And even in practice, each day is different because the process that you get to gamebed, you know, not not the load that you’re doing in training is a little bit, lower because you’re getting pretty again while in the beginning of the week, it’s harder now. It’s, it’s, it’s a little further from the game. So, You take everything in in in context to you as to what’s going on, but you have all this information, like, every information that you need. It’s it’s on there. And if you don’t understand it, then someone just explain it to you and to help you and figure it out. So, yeah. I mean, I think that’s that’s that’s been things as well. So, this kind of, it’s not in the numbers. And then you see where you work, where you should be, and what you’re doing, and Speaker 3: it does good enough or bad. Adjust them. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s what I love about sports, man, is if you could apply that to the business world, the more analytics we have, the more data we have, the better you can be for clients, your community, whatever it is. Right? And it’s like that’s what I love about it is your guys’ discipline to that stuff is to actually take the data Get better. If we could do that at work, take the data, practice it, get better. Get a game plan, have some clarity around it, gonna get to the next level. So last question for you here, Josh. What’s it been like, man? Plain in Saint Louis, the inaugural season, the fans, the the atmosphere, just the noise? What’s it been like in Saint Louis for you? Speaker Josh Yaro: Man, it’s been really nice. Because I remember last year when I got here, started with City tune. The first game last year, we played us in this, and I remember just to hopefully sell them out. Ask man, this is a nice to when we had our Facebook system and then fans showed up to the game. I’m, I mean, with drums and I was like, okay, we’re going to go online and I’m going, man, just pre season game. And before I end with, like, I just wait till the season starts, and I saw that during the season. And so bringing back to this year, more in the figures to the year. My god. It’s been, when you talk to, you know, opponents when they’re saying that, again, it’s really tough to listen to us. I think part of it is also what I’ve created, created, and it’s unbelievable. It’s it’s — Yeah. — it’s it’s been been it’s been great. And, And when you have a fan base, that’s really dedicated, like, you do, and a fan base that care, it might help to be withdrawn. It’s nothing done with today’s a lot every every day we go out there to to perform, you know, as a way to say it again, thank you and and to reward the fans for, you know, for for for for them, for coming to the to come into the game and for us, for the hard work. So it’s been amazing so far. And again, can think different to that for what environment that they’ve created for us for us. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s been awesome, man. Caitlyn Kendall, I know in in the Taylor family and all the ownership group, they’ve done a phenomenal job with the stadium, just the the energy down there. It’s just it’s been phenomenal, man. It’s been it’s a little bit drive around town. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I did build something really Gilliland I think that’s because most ownership groups are really hands off. And I think, I mean, we see them side of their their their their their and they wanted to win this, you know, for the community as well. So that’s absolutely amazing. And you can see in the way that they they relate to the city and they relate to the team and everything that they do and you, and, I mean, the facilities and everything. And they’re interested in to build their own economics. Speaker Brett Gilliland: First class. Well, Josh, it’s been awesome having you, man. Finish strong this season. Keep playing well. I know my boys continue rooting for you and the team and and my wife and I and and behalf of the city man. Thanks for what you guys are doing. It’s been awesome, and thanks for being on the circuit of success.

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Ariana Jahja about her journey and the things she has learned from business leaders. Ariana shares her story of moving from Bosnia to Germany and then to the United States, and how this experience made her question the world and its people. She emphasizes the importance of asking great questions and listening to people to help them feel seen and heard, as well as the importance of energy management and understanding one’s physiological state. Lastly, she talks about the concept of flow states and how to achieve them, as well as the importance of recovery and the MacGyver Method. Tune in to learn more about how to become a better version of yourself! https://youtu.be/LtFPp0kWvzY Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success Podcast. Welcome on back. Your Speaker Ariana Jahja: host, Greg. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circive Success. I am Brett Gilland in Gilliland. I’ve got Ariana Jahja. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. You got it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You say that right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. But Speaker Brett Gilliland: the name like Gilliland, you know, I was, struggle with last name. She gotta be you gotta be careful. So Warian, it’s awesome to have you. Been looking forward to it. And, we’re gonna have a great conversation today. But like I start out all conversations with on the circuit of success is what’s made you the woman you are today. I know you’ve got a great backstory of, on on who you are, but if you could, share that with our listeners, get to know you a little bit. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Absolutely. That’s a loaded question, but an exciting question because, I see that, you have your, journalist as future past, and I feel that what’s made me the woman I am today is my adversity that I’ve been through when I was a child. So moving from Bosnia to Germany, to then here, was tough. It was tough. I was I was little, and I went through a lot of, you know, who am I? Do I fit fit in here? Do I fit in here? You know, what who do I wanna be? What does it mean that my country had genocide? Right? Like, I’m going deep already, but it’s, you know, there was a lot of existential things that I went when I was a child. And you Speaker Brett Gilliland: were, like, six. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: When I was six, that really made me question everything. And I I don’t say that lightly. It just really made me question why do people do the things that they do? And, you know, why is there evil? Because I witnessed it when I was really little. So what made me me is really just having this mindset of, like, I know people can be good because my parents are really good people, but at the same time, there are bad people in this world. And so how do I study this? Speaker Brett Gilliland: How Speaker Ariana Jahja: do I study the mind? How do I study mindset the p, you know, humans so that I can then do something with that later on? Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you you thought that early on. And even at 06:10, twelve year old girl, Speaker Ariana Jahja: here you Speaker Brett Gilliland: are going through basically hell. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And and you’re thinking I’m gonna study the mind and figure this out and help people. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. I just needed answers. Like, it was it was really confusing as a little child to be watching this disaster. You know, just like now, we’re watching in the in the Ukraine and all over the world. And but as a child, you are really connected to something else. And it makes you angry. It makes you fearful. And so I’ve always just thought, I’m going to figure out how to be. How do I wanna be? How do I wanna Gilliland how can I make a difference? Like, as a child, you feel kind of hopeless, but that fuels you later on. And I think that’s kind of why I’m here. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s amazing. So talk about your journey. So you obviously then came in the United States and, you know, went to school and did all those things. And and decided to to take this to a next, the next step. At glow now. You work at glow with Whitney. And, Whitney’s awesome. She’s been on the podcast before. And so talk to us about that. Like, what made you take that next step and and to do what you’re doing now? And for those people that watch billions, I always joke with, Wittany. You probably know where I was going. Yeah. Yeah. What’s her name, Wendy? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Wendy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Wendy. Wendy. I can’t remember Wendy’s last name on Gilliland, but, yeah, you’re like Wendy. Right? You’re like a wendy. You go into businesses. You work with leaders. You work with the companies, and you help them get to that next level. And so That’s right. Gonna dive into that today for those people listening on on really the things that we do. And I know controlling energy is a big one for you, getting in the flow state all those things. But but talk to us right now what you’re what you’re learning from business leaders out in this world that are doing amazing things. What what’s maybe something common theme that you’re seeing out there today? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So just kinda go back to the the journey of going from studying psychology and being sort of in this HR world, if you will, from my early career on, to meeting Celeste and Whitney. Ironically, I have my own podcast, and I got connected with them, and they invited me to or I invited them to be on my podcast. I mean, you talked. And during that conversation, had this big spark, talk about energy, which was like, We are both wanting to support people in getting to their fullest potential. They are doing it with businesses, and I was doing it with the people. Yep. And we both talked about energy. Right? The e in glow stands for energy, and I am a firm believer and I had just gotten out of this training with, the flow research collective, which, the leader is Steven Cottler, and Steven T Cottler talks a lot about flow states. And so I had just gotten out of this cool training with him, with his team. I met Whitney and Celeste, and it was just like this, like, movie moment, but we were like, you know what? Let’s do this together. Because we we all know that organizations are made out of humans, and the humans that are leading it, the the leaders to see suite There’s a lot going on there, the gatekeepers. Right? And how can we support the gatekeepers to be at their best at their fullest potential so that it can trickle down into the organization. And that’s sort of how the Gilliland Ariana journey started. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So I I think that’s, I I connect with that anytime, but it’s about humans. It’s about right. We talk about people or culture. And I interviewed the former president of Starbucks International one time on the podcast. And he said that, you know, Starbucks thing was we’re in the people business. And you you think of Starbucks, you think coffee. Right? They’re like, we’re in the people this. And then they just happen to like coffee. Right? That’s the common thing there. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Exactly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And so I think that’s huge. But again, what what are you seeing out there in the market place today, you know, coming out of COVID and the world’s opening back up, thank god, and all the things that that we’ve learned over these last, you know, three or four years. What are you seeing the most, that business leaders are struggling with right now? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. That’s a good question. There are several things, but I think one of the things is that we have a lot of ten leaders. We have a lot of people who are good at what they do. We have a lot of high performing leaders. Right? But What we don’t have is leaders that can a be trusted and leaders who have a regulated nervous system. And while they’re potentially, you know, creating the results that they need to be, They are showing up every day. They’re doing the work that they need to be doing. They’re miserable when they go home to their families. And they don’t have hobbies. They don’t necessarily know how to find hobbies. They’re confused. Right? There are levels where they have the money, but they don’t really know or have time to use that money. And so what I’m what I’m really finding is that supporting people in looking at what’s actually important to them, And then shedding has been a huge support for a lot of leaders. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Getting rid of things in your life is a is a big deal. We we do that here at visionary wealth advisors. I mean, we sit down with people every day and talk about their goals or dreams or aspirations. Yep. And that shedding is is good. Right? Because sometimes it may be people, if you gotta shed, it may be habits, it may be things that are going on in your life every day. And so so what what’s that process like? I know me, I always talk about ADT, ask, don’t tell. It’s asking great questions and letting them answer the question. Because then when they come up with that, it’s it’s their idea. Oh, that’s great. Yeah. Instead of giving it to them. So is that something that you are a big fan of? I mean, asking great questions. What’s that process? How are you business leaders all over the world. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Questions and listening is huge. I saw this, article the other day on one of the places I followed, it said coaches stop talking. It’s because as coaches, we we have to sit with the people so that they feel seen heard, because what I’m seeing a lot is leaders coming in, and they just want to be heard. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: They but not from a perspective of competency and executive brain and your planning, but you, who you are. Yeah. And as a leader, Right? And just to say the things that you can’t say to your leaders, because you’re always being watched. People are always watching you. And so There’s it gets confusing, right? It’s like you have these feelings Gilliland you have these emotions, but this is who you should be, and then you get lost somewhere in that process. And so as a sitting with them and listening and asking questions and reflecting back. What I’m hearing, because sometimes when we think it we just think it, and then we kinda let go of it. And I reflected back to them and they hear hear me say it. They have aha moments because they’re like, well, wait, actually. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Did I just say that? Speaker Ariana Jahja: I just say that or what do I do I really believe that? Yeah. It’s really challenging the way that they’re thinking. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Business partner Tim Hammond is really good at that. He’s he’s let me let me say back what I’ve just heard you say. Right? And that and he does that to people when you’re in a meeting and it’s you know, he’ll articulate the ten points you just talked about. And it’s like, wow. You know, that that makes people feel really good. So for those listening, I mean, I think you can do that in conversations, I’ve just I’ve seen it so many times. I’ve seen it thousands of times with people, the same back to them. What they’ve just said is a big connecting factor for them. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Oh, yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So you said just a little bit ago, you talked about regulated nervous system. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So let’s talk about that because I I’m a guy. I don’t know if you if this is what you mean or not, but I was a guy early on, and still to this day have it, but I’ve learned to deal with it, making an ally, is, the anxiety, the nerves. Is that kinda where you’re going with that, or you mean something completely different? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. So part of it is that, because actually anxiety and nerves, we can use that as fuel. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Right? So that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It becomes a bad thing when you are literally physically disregulated, meaning that your me in a state called fight or flight. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yes. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And so when we are in fight or flight, our heart is pumping. Right? Our pupils are dilating. Things are happening for us to be able to be in flow and drop into focus. Right? Now that’s good when we actually need to use it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Not good for us if we’re constantly thinking that there’s something wrong because that’s how we actually get sick. Like, that’s how we break down, that’s how we burn out. And so what I support people in doing is, you know, I’m I’m a really big fan of tracking define your data. So I have something called an or a ring. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And I track, you know, what’s what are my HRV levels, which means heart rate variability Gilliland that tells a story, right? And so it gives me information and gives my leaders information on what what do I need to be doing today differently? Right? If I’m overwhelmed, because my nervous system is jacked, I probably shouldn’t be packing my days back to back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m I’m pulling this up because I couldn’t agree more. I have, I wear a woot bracelet. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Oh, sweet. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So it does the exact same thing, and I do my journal this morning. But but it it’s it’s cool because it does a, a stress, and it tells you where you’re at. So, like, right now, which I, I love this, because to what your point is, I go through it through a day, and I’ll find out where my highest peak moments were where I was most stressed. Then I’ll see what I was doing in that moment. But you know what’s crazy? If I’m sitting in a client meeting or I’m doing a like, right now I’m at point nine, which is really low stress. Right? And so I’m finding that when I am doing something, I love doing. So I think people gotta be clear what they love doing. And then put more of that on your calendar. Yeah. Right? I’m at a point nine right now because I love having these conversations with people. If I’m sitting down with a client, I’d be at a point nine as well because I love saying no Speaker Ariana Jahja: to the point. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So so talk more about that because I couldn’t agree more with you because that’s something that I monitor, you know, every single day. How do we help these people listening right now get to more of that low stress state Speaker Ariana Jahja: and Speaker Brett Gilliland: doing something that theoretically could be stressful. Right? Like, this could be stressful. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Well, the the way that I describe it is, and this is how it was kinda taught to me in my training through FRC was Imagine you’re a lion, lions, and the way we wanna operate is fifty percent of the time you wanna be like a lion sleeping. If you watch a lion, he’s sleeping, he’s resting, he’s not moving. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Fifteen hours a day or something. Right. Yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And then There’s prey or it’s some, you know, he needs food. He jumps thumbs up and works. Right? He gets that prey and it’s all it’s stress. It’s fight or flight. Right? And that’s how we Jahja look at our days is fifty, fifty, fifty percent of the time we’re recovering, fifty percent of the time we’re working hard. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Right? And so what I really want people to look at is, you know, even just open up your calendar today and look at how are you scheduling your meetings? So just recently, I made a client just literally pull up his, calendar, and he said to me, you know, how can I He he said, how can I continue after 4PM without this and this? And he, you know, it was water and coffee or water and coffee and, like, another caffeinated drink. And I just looked at him and I’m like, well, unless you want cocaine. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Right? There’s other ways to do this. Like, stop pushing, stop drugging yourself. Stop, right, because there are other natural ways, and that’s recovery. We have to have the grit to recover. This is something else that I teach is so many of us are so used to just going, going, going because it’s the old programming of the old way of doing is that we should fill up our calendars with all the things because that’s what is rewarded as competence. Right? And so a lot of people are robbing you. So if you today want to change, just look at even just leaving a little buffer between your me meetings. It doesn’t have to be an hour. It could be thirty minutes. And instead of having that extra cup of coffee or getting on your phone between meetings, take a nap. Fat your door if you’re in your office, it’s, you know, closing your eyes, and it’s called yoga, Nidra as well. Right? We don’t have to nap, but we need just Nidra. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Something that people can look up where you’re literally just turning off your brain, and I know you like meditation. Right? Meditating for five minutes. So it’s just really looking at your day differently and allowing yourself to recover. And I Speaker Brett Gilliland: think it’s hard, though. Right? I know for me when I was I got to the point. I got to the tipping point where you had a panic attack in a meeting, in a client meeting. And I didn’t know what was going on, you know, and and say, hell, I thought I was having a heart you know, and and this is gosh, this is probably ten and a half, eleven years ago now. And but I but I think it’s hard for us leaders. Don’t you think? Because, like, I was hard charging and I still am and go go go go go go. And if I’m sitting down in my office with a door shut and just kinda taking some deep breaths, for years. It it took me a long time to get through this because I’m like, oh, you’re being a failure. Don’t be weak. Right? You should be on the phone. You should be doing this. You should be doing that. And I think it takes a lot of time for us. And if that’s a guy thing, I think it’s probably men and women struggle with that. They’re hard charges. Right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. How how do you tell that person? Because I would just tell them that they gotta do it. They gotta take a couple years to get through that process. But I have found for me slowing down to speed up. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Mhmm. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I have to take time away. Vacation. Right? Just go back from a vacation. If it’s meditation, it’s buffer. I just did a video on social media that talked about. I used to be back to back to back to back appointments. I have found now that I need a buffer. I don’t like going back to back to back to back to back and just being crazy. Exactly. I like Speaker Ariana Jahja: that buffer. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So when you hear me say all that stuff, what are your thoughts? And how do we help people? Speaker Ariana Jahja: So, yeah, so just shifting the mindset from time management to energy management because we all naturally. So I wanna start off too with, you know, we’re animals first. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Ariana Jahja: We we have a biology that requires certain things that I don’t care how smart you are. Your body is gonna need certain things in order for you to be able to be successful long term. So I think the more people can learn about their own physiological states and how their nervous system operates, the easier it will be for them to comprehend why they need what they need. Right? So understanding a knowledge of self Meaning, yes, mindset is important. Trust me. I love mindset, but really knowing, you know, what is the nervous system? What is fight or flight? What is it feel like when my when I’m in fight fight or flight, and how can I am at how can I notice that I’m in that state? Right? And so that’s number one. Is really figuring out how does it work, knowledge in an an energy management because we all have different of energy levels. Like, you I love that you track yours on on your watch, by really recognizing, are you a morning person or are you a night person? Because there’s something called a chronotype, and this is something that we are born with. And so really figuring that, there’s a there’s a specific formula that I can maybe even sent to you that people can take a a quiz to figure out. Yeah. Am I a lark? Am I supposed to be up at four? And am I not am I not allowing myself to do that? Am I a night owl? And I’m forcing myself to be a morning person? Because that’s gonna matter. Right? When do you do your best work and then schedule everything around that? And that’s what I help people do. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s cool. I’m glad to hear you’re born with that. Because I have, you know, y’all these books with waking up at five in the morning and all these people that do all this stuff. And quite frankly, I hate it. I I can’t stand it. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Thank you. I’m I’m a lot to say about that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: But I’ve but I’ve beat myself up over it for years. I did. Right? It was like, oh, and, you know, real winners get up at five in the morning or 04:52 or, you know, whatever the number is. Right? There’s random numbers, and it’s like, I can’t I don’t like it. I I try it. I’ll do it for a week and a half, and then I’m just pissed off and then I don’t do it anymore. Right? Yeah. My most creative thinking, my time in my journals, it the kids are in bed or whatever. Now it’s downtime. Like, that’s where I most creative at night. I have to make myself go to bed because that’s when I find my flow. So I’m glad to hear that. And so you said you had a lot more to talk about it. Let’s dig into that one. Speaker Ariana Jahja: So let let yeah. Let’s stay there for a second because, you know, the past, like, I remember about ten years ago or so when, like, IG was really Instagram was coming up and remember thinking, I just Jahja find someone that does it the right way, and I just wanna follow what they do because that’s that’s how it’s done. Right? And so I think ever since, there’s been some of this culture. It’s like, let me look up this influencer and see what they do because, you know, they’re successful, whatever successful means. Yeah. Right? And I’m gonna copy what they do, and it’s just awful because there is no one way. There is not even a one way right way for for us, for me and you specifically. Right? Let alone to follow someone else’s energy levels because we are all designed differently. We all have different backgrounds, different traumas, different risk versions, different neurobiologies. And so what has happened is people have really gotten disconnected from who they are. Biologically, but also who they are as a person, right, and they’re following these things that they think they should be doing, and they end up with more stuff on their Gilliland more unhappy. Yep. Because it’s not fulfilling them. So so morning routines, you know, make up your own, whatever feels right. And is waking up bad, early bad? No. Of course, you’re gonna get more done. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: But how are you going to feel at 3PM? Speaker Brett Gilliland: So let’s walk through that. So let let’s let’s assume that I don’t everything we just talked about, and I don’t know when I met my best. Okay. I’m I’m your like. Okay? And you’re gonna help me. You want me to take it to the next level. I wanna take it to the next level. What’s that process look like? So maybe somebody that doesn’t hire you or hire a coach, How are we walking them through where to find out how I can be at my best? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Well, it it will always start with kind of your your current state. So what I do in in VIP sessions with my clients is, you know, we get into a room for about four hours and what I would ask them is, you know, tell me everything that’s going on right now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You might keep interrupting my can. Yep. So, again, think about this for those listening. Four hours. Okay. Right? Four hours of time. Not like, oh, in twenty minutes, you’re gonna figure this out. Yeah. Right? Four hours, you’re gonna just be pelt me with questions. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So questions about well, actually, you know, many times I will go into the past. Because how we think about our past is past is how we define our future and what we do in the in the present. So a lot of times, I will listen to are there any contaminate contamination stories that are happening in their past? Okay. And then from that, we will then say, okay, what’s the current state what’s working, what’s not working. And then, okay, where do you Jahja go? What what is what is the future in an ideal world or you at your highest, and I have them answer those questions. And then as I’m listening, you know, taking notes and so forth, and then after the four hours, we then have a game plan on how to get to they’re trying to go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Got it. Yep. There there’s alignment there. Right? You mentioned earlier, you know, our mission at at vision areas to help people achieve a future greater than their past. And it doesn’t mean you had a bad past. It doesn’t mean there’s a contaminated story in everybody’s past. Right? But we all want a future that’s greater than our past. So When you hear me say future greater than your past, what’s that mean for you personally on how we achieve a future greater than our past? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Well, number one is honesty. I think you have to be really, really honest with yourself saying Why do I want what I want? What did my past really mean? What did I did I do anything? Do I have any guilt? Do I have any shame? Do I have Speaker Brett Gilliland: any Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Hang ups, do I not let myself in off? Like, these are the questions that are going that are dri that drive us. Right? These are the emotions that drive us. So really getting honest about Why do I want to create, let’s say, a million dollars? What is that going to be for? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And am I doing it to make myself feel better? Am I try am I doing it to prove a point to someone in fifth grade? Right? Like, should like that. Is right? Like, people do do things because of reasons that they were hurt in the past. And so honesty is really important because the only way to create a better futures to be really open about why. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like that. So, honestly, number one. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Being able to be uncomfortable with when shit goes wrong. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Speaker Ariana Jahja: I think so many so many of my clients, hit a pothole. So one of my clients said, you know, I I’ve hit a pothole, and I don’t know how to get out of it. And my answer was You’re gonna keep hitting potholes. It’s just how do you gracefully get out of that pothole? And, a, how can you look at the field, avoid potholes, And then when you do hit one, learn from the past potholes and get out of that one gracefully so that you can make it to the next level. I think so many people are not okay with being know, uncomfortable or wrong. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s funny. I just had this discussion with my, one of my kids on vacation. I don’t even remember what I don’t even remember what the story was, but I just said, you’ve gotta learn to be comfortable, being uncomfortable. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You know? And, doesn’t mean you like it. Yep. Right? Doesn’t mean I like when I hit a pothole. Yeah. You’re gonna hit a Speaker Ariana Jahja: positive. Exactly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So for me, I I call it strategic think time or STT. If you looked at my calendar right now, you’d see it on repeat every week, hour and a half. So ninety minutes, once a week, strategic thing time, that’s how I try to prevent puddles. Doesn’t, again, doesn’t mean that I’m going to not hit a pothole, but I’m trying to avoid it. Right? Yeah. So for me, again, it’s it’s journaling, it’s thinking it’s it’s trying to see the future even though that’s impossible, but trying to What what do you do personally to help you get to that next level? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Mhmm. For me, it’s, running It’s boxing. It’s it’s doing physical activity because what I have noticed, tracking. So to, you know, to go back to your point is, you know, in order to gracefully get out of those or avoid those potholes, is our our nervous system has to be regulated. And exercise is one of the best ways. I mean, sleep is number one. Okay. And so if you had to choose between sleep and exercise, Speaker Brett Gilliland: to sleep. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Always sleep. Sleep. Right. But exercise is really, really important because we release something called anandamide. They had an anandamide. And what that does is it helps with anxiety. And so if you have low anxiety, we’re more likely to obviously be better humans because we can connect with people more. We can get into flow states a lot more. And so for me, running is really is a lab. Right now. It used again, it used to be boxing, but now it’s more, you know, how can I push myself really, really hard during that run? So that I can take what I’m learning here now into the outside world. It’s a safe space for me to do that. So exercise for me for sure and then also getting getting my sleep. I don’t I don’t care what’s going on. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You’re eight hours a day person? Or are you, like, six, seven? Try at Speaker Ariana Jahja: least. Seven and a half? Yeah. Seems to be my my number. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I can I at seven? I’m like, good. Sometimes if I have too much sleep, I’m like, I’m actually tired. I agree. Speaker Ariana Jahja: I agree. I’m tired, Speaker Brett Gilliland: but — Yeah. — I have told myself to go to bed as I stated earlier. So you’ve you’ve mentioned it numerous times today. You you people that are into this personal growth stuff, you hear the flow state. Right? So define that for us. What does I mean, I I obviously clearly think I understand it, but I wanna hear from professional standpoint? How do you define what flow state means? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Sure. Yeah. So flow states are states where we feel and perform our best. They are different than meditation. So I’ll I’ll use meditation and flow. Right? So meditation, for example, we feel we might feel good. It might be hard, but we’re shutting off our pre our new brain, our prefrontal cortex. We’re trying to really decrease thoughts in class. Low states are states where the challenge of what we’re trying to do in the skill that we have are like in a goldilocks state. And so all of a sudden, we are losing sense of self. We are loo we’re in control. We feel in control because everything is falling in place. Right? And we are in the state where time doesn’t really exist the way that it usually does. Right? So we can think of maybe moments where you felt that way, but I I there plenty at times for, like, even dancing for me sometimes, it’s like, oh, I I know exactly what to do here. So I’m, like, in a flow state, but it’s it’s a cool feeling. Right? And so what we used to think is that it was just a switch where it’s like, okay, now I’m not in flow, now I’m flow. But what we’re learning and Again, the neuroscience behind this is it’s interesting, but nobody really actually knows what happens. If anyone tells you, I know exactly what happens. It’s not true. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Will be us. Speaker Ariana Jahja: But what we know is it’s a cycle. There are four stages we have to go through in order to be in flow. And and that’s what I coach people on as well is really teaching them if you are in this stage, what do you need to be doing to be in flow. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Can you tell us those stages? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Sure. So the first stage is the struggle phase. So during the struggle phase, you know, according to to Steven Copler. This is where we sit down to do a task, and it might feel really uncomfortable. This is the time when you’re like, oh, I don’t know this. You know, you just, you’re you get antsy, you Jahja get up, you wanna move. That’s because there’s a lot of cortisol, and norepinephrine, which is a type of adrenaline. And what happens is it it you don’t know how to do it and you have to focus. Right? And so that’s why you have cortisol in nore, norepinephrine because you have to focus on the task at hand, and now you have to use your working memory to say, how do I do this? And past memory to say, have I ever done anything like this before? Now, this is where the challenge skill comes in. If the challenge is too hard, gonna have too much anxiety. You’re not gonna be able to get into flow. So that’s we have to get through the struggle phase into release. And in release phase is when those moments when you’re like running or taking a shower and all of a sudden, all the stuff comes through. You’re like, oh my gosh. I know this answer and this answer, and this is what I should tell this client, and I don’t know if you’ve experienced that before. Speaker Brett Gilliland: The weirdest times. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So that’s the release phase. So we really wanna design our days where that’s where the recovery comes into is like, If you’re constantly trying to force solving a problem, it’s not gonna work. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: You have to walk away from the problem. Once you walk away from the problem, so for me running, I get downloads, I take my notes out, I type it, I go back to my desk, and I get into flow, because now I’ve had this. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That was your release. Yeah. So you’re taking notes while you’re running or you just check the number at all? Speaker Ariana Jahja: So most of the time, I take I’ll I’ll write down one word you know, to remember because as soon as I get back, I Jahja get back into flow. And then after flow, you have to recover because you are using up so much of the feel good chemicals that if you push it too far, you’re gonna have such a hard, come down It’s like, it’s literally you got all the best feeling drugs in your body. Right? You got the dopamine, you got serotonin, you got like all the all the goodies, right, oxytocin. And so all of a sudden, if you don’t recover, you’re gonna not do well the next day. Might wake up and you might feel like, oh, I feel depleted. I feel depressed. Right? And so the recovery piece is really important. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So that’s number three. Is that what’s the so number three is what? So you got struggle phase, release phase. Number three is flow. State. The flow. Okay. Yep. And then number four is the — Cover. — is recovery. And for you, recovery could be, it’s sleep, obviously. It it’s running. What else are you helping people with that you’re finding a lot Speaker Ariana Jahja: of great question. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Takeaways from recovery. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So recovery, we have active recovery and passive recovery. So active recovery, would be walking in nature. It would be, meditating. It would be taking a hot shower, an ice bath, And then passive recovery is more, you know, sitting sitting with friends, maybe, not alcohol. I not nothing against alcohol, and you love me some wine and and beer. But it’s not a good activity to recover. Right? Because it’s, T. V. Is not Speaker Brett Gilliland: from that recovery. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Exactly. TV is not a good recovery because you are actually your brain is actually active, and then takes you away out of the flow state. I hear Speaker Brett Gilliland: I hear too not to read a really exciting, like, for me, I love reading business books, but I hear, like, even though it’s good to read in bed before you go to sleep, sometimes you can hear that it’s not great to necessarily read the business book because I find myself — Yes. — there’s an idea Now I sit there for the next thirty minutes instead of falling asleep, I’m thinking in my I’m already designing what I need to be doing for that thing. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you agree with that? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Yeah. Because you’re almost kind of getting into a flow state there because you’re like I’m trying to solve the problem and Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Ariana Jahja: you know, you don’t have so the release might happen during your sleep. Right? And so, one of the things that is really fun that I will say is delegating to your unconscious. Right? So if you do have big business problems and you want your unconscious to solve for it, especially when you’re in sleep. Write the question down and then let it go. So it’s called the macgyver method. So saying, you know, what should I do about this client? Gilliland then you write down. Okay. I’m going to come back to this question tomorrow at 8AM. And what’s gonna happen is your unconscious is gonna start solving for it through pattern recognition and sleep because of me doing rem sleep is actually where we solve a lot of our problems. And so if we don’t get that rem sleep, we wake up more stressed. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Right. So so it’s actually going on in our minds, right, that even we’re sound asleep, have no idea That’s when you wake up with those ideas. It’s because our brain is working even when we don’t know it. Yeah. That’s amazing. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And that’s the part to be honest is that I I struggle with with a lot of leaders is when they have a hard time letting go. And I’ll you know, a lot of our problem solving, a lot of our greatness happens when we are not doing the thing. And so when we see people who packed their calendars and who are always doing the next and next and next. Yeah. It’s because they’re trying to control too much. They’re trying to control with what? They’re prefrontal cortex, the new brain. Not allowing the unconscious to do what it needs to do in order to solve for what needs to be solved. Right? So we we pushed you hard and we don’t allow. Eve. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s fascinating stuff, Jeff. Jeff, our producer over here. He’s kicking butt. So the the circuits of success are your attitude, your belief system, the actions that you have to take to get results, right, whatever those results are in your life. That’s that’s the whole point of this podcast. So when you hear me say the word action, I wanna lead with this, is I find sometimes where I get frustrated is the it’s the whole paralysis by analysis. Right? People have to over analyze everything. They have to have all the answers before they just do something. And I believe Not that I’m always right. Mhmm. But I believe sometimes you just have to take action. Right? Build the bridge as you’re crossing the river. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: But a lot of people can’t do that. So what thoughts actions, takeaways, advice would you have for somebody that just is constantly being paralyzed by overanalyzing everything. Speaker Ariana Jahja: So good. Yeah. Well, be be one complexity in life. Complexity is what helps us gather information and take that information and then decide the next step. So I think for people who want the, you know, the right answer, have it perfect, you know, just say, there is no right answer. There’s only learning And I think the more action you can take, the more of an evolved human being you become because, you know, the information that we get, we then curate and calibrate Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yep. — become the next level. So when you’re stuck in the analysis pro paralysis is really, you know, What’s the what’s the first step? What’s the smallest little tiny step that you can take that feels safe? And then from that, take all the other steps. Because what I see people do is like they’re trying to go from one to fifteen. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s true. Speaker Ariana Jahja: When they haven’t haven’t done one, two, three, four. Right? I was just coaching my husband on this last night. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you were coaching him. Yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Because he was like, oh, I’m gonna do this. And I’m like, okay, but you skipped step five six seven. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: So, you know, let’s get back to it, but there’s a whole podcast and if you should or should not coach your spouse. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Listen to that. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Usually, I well, I should try that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m getting coached. So I read something you talked about, Mirneuron, Neuroon, So what is that? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Yeah. So I love that. So we all have of these neurons that if we try to be they match how the other person’s neurobiology is, happening. Right? So if you are if your nervous system is relaxed and I come in to have to talk to to you, I will mirror that energetically. So fascinating. Right? And so I don’t know if you can think of situations, right, where, like, you walk into a room and you’re so stressed and someone is really calm and you’re like, I wanna be around this person. Right. Maybe you’re an maybe a dog or, you know, like, just being around them. And then the opposite. I’ll say Speaker Brett Gilliland: flip side could also happen. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Absolutely. Right? If you have a leader who’s always stressed and going on fumes, you’re gonna feel that. You don’t they don’t even have to say anything. You’re just even on Zoom. Like, I know for myself, some of my clients, I feel them on Zoom. Yeah. And I get, like, Speaker Brett Gilliland: the vibes. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So it’s like how do you put walls up and how do you breathe through these situations is really, really important as well, so you don’t get their energy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I think you just said breathe through their that situation too is, I think, is is important because for me, meditation is not just sitting in a quiet room. In breathing. Right? Meditation can act be active. I call it active meditations. I can be in a meeting with something. And if I’m feeling that stress, come, like, I could be meditating right now when you’re talking and you not know it. Right? I think if we get really good at breathing, the more we breathe, because I think we’re all as human beings, we’re we’re shallow breathers. Right? We just breathe fast and a lot. I think it’s just slowing down even in a meeting and taking that deep breath. Where it doesn’t have to be awkward or obvious, but just slow down. Take a breath. Right? And to your point there on the, mirror neurons, I read in a book a long time ago when I was starting a business is that it’s and I’m assuming this is scientifically proven, but you can feel somebody’s energy from their heart, like, within, like, ten or fifteen. Yeah. So, you know, you see that hole or hear the, you can feel when they walk. You know when somebody walks in a room. Like, you know that energy. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So my question to that is there are also days you may not have the energy that you know you need to have as as well trained and studied and and equipped as you are. There’s still days you don’t wanna do it. Right? So how do we get through those days, you don’t wanna do it and still bring that good positive vibe and that energy. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. I think that the breath breath is really, really important. I think if you can really figure out how to breathe your way into energy, right? So so there are certain as you can do that. I think for me, I think Huberman talks about the, psychological sigh. That’s one that always saves me, especially if sometimes I just wanna respond and react and I go, so if you ever see me doing that, I’m like, okay, trying to get energy to to respond, but yeah, there there are going to be days, we’re gonna have to push through. And I think it’s it’s going to be important to remember the why And remember, and give you, and give yourself grace, you know, that you might not be perfect that day. But if you have a history of showing up strong, for your people and you have one day off and being vulnerable and saying, you know, I’m I’m tired today or I’m struggling with this today. You know, I think that try to fake it too much. It’s it’s very obvious, and I think it confuses people. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s the that old saying fake it till you make it. That I get that, but it also somewhat annoys me. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Absolutely. Same. Speaker Brett Gilliland: How about we just be transparent and vulnerable and go out and build relationships Gilliland good things will happen? So, last few things here, Whitney, said to me, I I asked her about you. Obviously, I was doing my research. And I said, what’s what’s one of her? What’s one of the best things about Ariana? And she said, your unique, abilities, how the uniqueness about you is how you help leaders move from their old ways to their new ways. At such a rapid pace. And and I think that’s a very big compliment, right, because it’s the old can’t teach an old dog new tricks, but that’s what you’re doing every single day. Right? And so What is it about you that helps me, people like me get to point a to point b or point z, quicker and and in a better way? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Well, I like to always talk about the, well, that’s nice of her to say. I love that. I like to talk about the eighty twenty rule, right, where, you know, the eighty percent of Can I custom this button? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, yeah. Okay. It cuts away. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Eighty percent of the shit that you’re doing that’s holding you back. Right? And really looking at what’s the twenty percent of things that I want to do that’s making me feel amazing. Right? And so, again, going back to the beginning of the conversation, it’s really what am I going to start saying no to? And then also, what am I going to exploit in my life? What are the projects that I’m gonna go really deep, and I’m going to learn how to get into flow doing these things. Right? Instead of doing them all. Tend to say, you know, we, and then we end up being so overwhelmed that we don’t do anything a hundred percent. Right? So eighty twenty rule is really, really great of, you know, what are the eighty percent of things in my life that I’m doing that I don’t need to be doing that are taking me away from getting to where I’m trying to go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So, if we have our friend, Jeff here, follow you around these amazing cameras that he’s got, if we what were what were the things we would see out of your life? We followed you around, you know, for the next two or three days, no missed items that you’re doing to be at your peak performance. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Okay. So I think one of the things Get Speaker Brett Gilliland: energy on this one, you know, I see that. She’s she’s like, I got a good Well, Speaker Ariana Jahja: and I I have to be honest. It’s It’s a work in progress. Like, it’s one thing to know theory, and it’s another thing to practice that theory. So I won’t I won’t lie every day of my life. I this is my my lab. Yeah. Right? It’s like, let me try let me test this out to see how I feel. Am I living in and integrity with what I teach. Right? And so one of the main things is really being clear on my goals. So The last in our team is amazing. She is very good at, like, identifying. Okay. This is what’s priority this month. This is what’s priority this quarter. And then I do that with everything in my life is to say, what’s important to me this month so that I can filter everything through today to say Is it the eighty percent or is it is it the twenty percent? Right? So which things do I need to say yes to in order to get to that goal faster? Be through leverage. And so, My calendar is everything. I I write everything down, and follow that and and and take naps. If you follow me, I I take a lot of naps. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you’re you’re okay just shutting it down in the middle of day and just I Speaker Ariana Jahja: have learned to. It was really hard before because I feel that energy. Like, I’ll lay down. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Is it like an hour or like ten minutes? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Oh, no. It’s like, typically, my ring says fifteen minutes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Sleep twenty five minutes laying down because it takes me a while. So so laying down and you feel the energy flowing through you. Like, it’s processing. So I if I had a client, it was a really challenging call, I’ll lay down, and I’m like, turn off my brain, and I feel their energy coming through me, the ideas of, like, shedding, if there’s anything toxic needs to be, like, go off. That that’s probably my Number one, that and running has been my number one fuel to be at a higher level doing projects that I’m doing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like to You know, I’ve saw recently. I think I might buy them because I keep thinking about them. Are these smart, the smart goggles? Have you seen those things? They’re like like the they’re like a big They’re like goggles. You can’t see through them, but they’re like, they do heat. They do cool. They do some massage. They do meditation stuff. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Wow. I have never heard this. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. They’re through that thera body. You know, like, the guns that you can do in your muscles. It’s the same company. And, I’m not paid to say that. I just and I’ve never even used them, so I don’t even know if they it could be a gimmick for all I know. Sorry there about it if you’re listening. But, I think I’m gonna get them because I think to your point of that slowing down some of that stuff can be very impactful. I don’t know why I said that, but I but I did Speaker Ariana Jahja: because I think Speaker Brett Gilliland: it’s important to to slow like I said, slow down. I don’t take naps, but that breathing thing for me is a Speaker Ariana Jahja: big Right. And it doesn’t have to be a nap. It is just sitting down to allow your physical body to process would just happen. Yeah. And especially if you’re trying to move fast, right, it’s like, you have to stop and process what happens. We can transition into the next thing. So transitions are really important to to to say, you know, I’m visualizing where I’m going next. How do I need to show up? And how can I process what just happened so I can step into this next Speaker Brett Gilliland: So talk to us about glow? How are you all helping people? Let’s let’s brag about glow for a while. Your guys’ office is amazing, by the way. Speaker Ariana Jahja: It’s cool. Right? All the all the pink? Yeah. Yeah. It’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: very cool. Just the building, the the entrance to your, to your office space. It’s cool. You Speaker Ariana Jahja: would think we work with all women, but we don’t. We don’t. We just allow men to embrace their feminine, which, you know, it’s it’s healthy. So so glow, The the thing that attracted me to glow at the most is that, you know, when we look at where we are right now today, is there is so much power. So many businesses have so much power, and I believe that most humans are good. But when you look at what’s happening sometimes with the way that wealth and power are distributed, it it worries me. Right? But I also at the core belief that people are doing the best that they know how to. And I think it’s just going to be getting people in place to support the transfer And so what really attracted me to to with me in SLS is, like, they fundamentally understand that, that, you know, they can come in and they it doesn’t have to be a rigidity to say, you know, do x y z, but follow that energy, follow that next right step, even though it might not be so great on paper. Right? But they they understand that fundamentally that, you know, there are ways to do that. And there’s a there’s a lot of work to be done. Yep. A lot of work to be done. And so I’m really excited about that. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: you’re helping people what I always talk about getting people off the treadmill of life. Right? Yeah. Slow down. Your busy leader, slow down. Let’s think where are we going. Clarity, you talked about that earlier. I think for any of us, they’re business leaders and and even leading our homes. Right? Just clarity on what the goal is. Yeah. Right? How do we want these kids to be raised? Is a is a big deal. So Well, Speaker Ariana Jahja: and one more thing I will just add to is, you know, playfulness. I think part part of, you know, with with glow too is the pink and the, and there’s a little bit of playfulness in all of this. Like, let’s not be so serious. And this is kind of my, you know, I wouldn’t say this is lows, but this is my, value as don’t ever take anything so fucking serious that you’re going to, like, be miserable over it. Right? Like there there’s this playfulness in life that we need to embrace. Because I think what we’ve done too much, so is gone too much to the right side of, like, everything has to be perfect. And The lightness and the fun has gotten lost a little bit. Right? And so that’s the other thing is, like, we we bring a little bit of, like, hey, let’s go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love that because Tim and I talk about that at work a lot is, like, if we start stop laughing — Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — we’re done. Like, have fun, man. It’s two damn serious. You know? What’s, like, Speaker Ariana Jahja: That’s why I have to go dance and Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Ariana Jahja: let it all out. Right? Like you get your energy there. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. I love it. So where do our listeners find more of you? Speaker Ariana Jahja: So I am primarily on Instagram. Okay. That’s that’s my that’s my jam, and then also of course on LinkedIn. And our glow website, on there as well. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So we’re gonna play a game. Speaker Ariana Jahja: I’m sorry. Ultimate Podcast. Called the glow accelerator podcast. Speaker Brett Gilliland: The glow accelerator podcast. We’ll put all this in the show notes. It’ll be there. I just pulled up your Instagram here. So Pick a number between one and ten. We’re gonna play an Instagram game that we’re doing. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Let’s do seven. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Now between one and three, grab grab a number between one and three. Number two. Alright. You got somebody as surfing. Somebody is, you guys are doing some bench jumps, you’re on a beach, it looks like. You’re having Speaker Ariana Jahja: some Speaker Brett Gilliland: sometimes stepping away from the day to day can bring the most growth. We’ve been talking about that today. Recab of our family trip to San Diego and oceanside. I had figured out that play slash work trip with intention and purpose is my favorite kind of trip for me. Made some incredible connections and decisions ready to tackle the next quarter. So this is exactly what we’ve just been talking about, right? By this arena? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. That’s why Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love this. Talk to me about your trip to San Diego, oceanside. What was so amazing about it? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Well, my husband is originally from, California. He grew up in California. He was born here, but so a, you know, he’s a total California boy. So he was in his zone, if you will. So that was really cool. It was my son’s first time going to California, and I just love the ocean. It’s just something about the ocean where, like, it just relaxes you. It puts you in your place, you know, in Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, some grounding. Right? I mean, it’s not grounding. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Like, It it just makes you feel gratitude and connection. And my cousin from Germany came, and so she was with us, and I hadn’t seen her in years. So a very special trip I got. Actually, this is where I got this tattoo because, you know, palm trees are very resilient if there’s a storm or hurricane or whatever. It might be comes right back up and so that’s kinda I try to live my life is, you know, just gonna bring you down. But you don’t if you are so strong at your core Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yep. — you can go through anything. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. I love it. Speaker Ariana Jahja: I love Speaker Brett Gilliland: where Annie has been awesome having you on the surge of success podcast. Thank you so much for being verse.

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Katie Collier, the owner of Katie’s Pizza and Pasta Osteria. At 20, Katie created the business plan for the first and original location, Katie’s Pizzeria, with a dream to bring hand-made, in-house artisan and Neapolitan pizza to St. Louis. Under the ownership of her father, Tom Lee, Katie’s Pizzeria opened its doors in February 2008. She recently opened her 3rd location in Ballpark Village in Downtown St. Louis. When COVID-19 hit, and dining rooms across the country closed, Katie acted fast. She and her team immediately began freezing and selling their pizzas to save the restaurants and protect the livelihood of Katie’s team. They now ship their pizza throughout the U.S. and their products are available in grocery stores nationwide. Katie shares her journey from opening this pizzeria in St. Louis in 2008 to becoming homeless and eventually finding sobriety. She talks about the importance of thinking big and believing in yourself and encourages entrepreneurs to never give up. https://youtu.be/ZfLSvypx4V8 Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success podcast. The Circuitive Success podcast. With your host. Brett? Brett? Brett. Brett, go over there. Brett, Gilliland visionary wealth advisory. The circuit of success podcast, to start the show. Welcome to the Circive Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, I’ve got Katie call you with me. Katie, what’s going on? Speaker Katie Collier: Not much. I’m here and I’m excited. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You’re here and excited. We’re excited to have you. Speaker Katie Collier: Thank you. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You break away from the restaurant to get over here. Speaker Katie Collier: The restaurant and the five year old. And the five year old. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s that’s the hardest part. The five year old. Right? We gotta get Katie’s, pizza and pasta to Illinois. Speaker Katie Collier: I get asked so much. I mean, everyone says of Allen, Illinois. So Right. I know I might do couple laps while I’m here. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You heard it here folks right here. No. We won’t we won’t hold you to that, but it’s a great community. Speaker Katie Collier: For rents. Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: We can help you with that. Well, you are Katie Collier. You’re the owner of Katie’s Gilliland Pasta. You have an amazing new location at ballpark Village. Holy crap. Speaker Katie Collier: Wow. That’s really cool. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I saw you there on opening day. And, we talked and, just I’ve been back a couple times, and it’s phenomenal. I mean, it’s just the coolest thing ever. You gotta be so proud. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Just to be right next to the stadium and that energy. Yeah. It’s really great. And the space is Huge. And, we just went all out. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s so well decorated. It just looks it doesn’t feel like you’re in downtown Saint Louis. Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, I don’t think so. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It doesn’t. Yeah. So if you’ve done a great job. Well, if you can, we could talk about that all day. I’m sure. But if you can, I always like to start every podcast what’s made you the person you are today, which is a very big loaded question I know? Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: But you’ve gotta tell the story. So if you can, let’s Speaker Katie Collier: start. Let’s start Speaker Brett Gilliland: healing back that onion layer talking about who Katie Collier is. Speaker Katie Collier: Obviously, parents are very key. Yeah. I have some really unique crazy ones. My mom’s not crazy. My dad’s passed, so I’m allowed to calm crazy. You can be crazy now. But, crazy in a good way. Just really unique, wonderful people. And then I think going through some painful experiences, one of my dad’s quotes was pain is the only teacher, you know. And so, I’ve been through some stuff with addiction and losing people and all the things that we all go through in life. And I think, tried to learn my lessons from those, and they definitely made me I am today. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, you are you’re pretty open about your story. So I don’t feel like I I feel like there’s a lot of questions I can ask because it’s all things I’ve read about anyways. So But talk to our listeners about that because I think your story is amazing because they see you now. Right? And I didn’t know all the stuff about you, I just knew this Katie and she owned this restaurant. It’s awesome. And she’s gotten into frozen pizzas now and other things all over the country. And so you hear this amazing story, these super successful businesses that in a in a business, it’s really hard to be successful. Right? So you’re doing a great job, but they don’t see the Katie at fifteen years old and seventeen and twenty five. Right? Speaker Katie Collier: Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So if we can, let’s talk a little bit about So you worked at a restaurant, fifteen years old? Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Well, I dropped out of high school, dropped out, and then started working in restaurants. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And never went back and got your education Right? Speaker Katie Collier: No. I did not. Yeah. Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So fifth so basically a sophomore in high Speaker Katie Collier: school. Yeah. Which, you know, I think I’m kind of smart, but there’s things that I do not you can tell. You’re like, oh, she’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: She did not Speaker Katie Collier: go back. Finish math class. I hate school. Okay. Speaker Brett Gilliland: God for iPhones now. Right? We’re nice, Siri or whoever to do everything. Speaker Katie Collier: I do all of that. But I did start working. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: And I, got into restaurants for a couple of reasons. One was they take anybody. You don’t need a degree. And number two, I had an aunt, Zoe Robinson, who owned, restaurants, and she was very successful. And so I was like, well, you know, without a degree, I can follow in those footsteps. So, yeah, but I learned so much about life in restaurants and started really early. So I had a leg up on everybody, I think. Yeah. I Speaker Brett Gilliland: was a bartender in Collier, and I thought it was one of the best jobs. And, You do learn a lot about people. Speaker Katie Collier: You learn a lot about people. Problem solving. I know. Problem solving and multitasking and just the whole. It’s like everything. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And then, so fifteen to twenty four, I believe, stayed working restaurant business. And then it was at twenty four years old? You started your first restaurant. Speaker Katie Collier: Right? And in between there, I did live in Italy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Katie Collier: So that’s where the inspiration came from. My mother’s an artist, and she ran a study abroad program in Florence. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, wow. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. And so she an apartment there, and she’s like, if you can you know, save up for a plane ticket and spending money. You can come live with me. So she lived there off and on for maybe like don’t know if it’s between five or ten years, but many Gilliland we would go and spend time with her there. Yeah. And that’s where That’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: the feel of Katie’s pizza and pasta. Speaker Katie Collier: That’s where I fell in love with really cool Italian food, the real stuff. And I wrote a business plan at twenty, actually, for Katie’s pizza after going to Italy for the first time. And I actually went and found a space in the loop, got an architect to do like a simple space plan. And wasn’t even old enough for a liquor license and obviously Speaker Brett Gilliland: kinda need that for a restaurant. Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: But nobody obviously would invest in me. But the idea started at twenty. And then by twenty four, I had worn worn my father down Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Katie Collier: as we do as daughters do. And, said, can you, like, we gotta do this? And I was newly sober at twenty four for the first time. That’s the key word there the first time. Yeah. So fifteen to Speaker Brett Gilliland: twenty four, you Speaker Katie Collier: were Yeah. I was drinking and using it it was horrible. But I was young. So, like, what kinda went unnoticed. Yeah. You know? Because everybody’s kind of a mess. Right. Yeah. But I knew that it was bad enough to get sober at twenty four. And then, my father has been had been sober since I was two. So he had been sober for, like, Speaker Brett Gilliland: basically your whole life. Speaker Katie Collier: My whole life. So he was really proud. And, I was like, let’s at the time, we were He was in the junk business. Yes. Growing up. So he was a salvage junk guy. And, he’s like, well, let’s start with. You can can open a little junk store together. So we did. We called it we it had no phone number. It had no name. It’s just this weird, like, bad antique store. And, after doing that for about a year, I wore them down and said, come on. Let’s do this pizza place, and There’s these really amazing ingredients in Italy that nobody’s using in the US or St. Louis, like, really no one knew what Presciutto was when I opened up in two thousand eight. We had to explain it to everybody. Yeah. Now it’s the internet. Yeah. Now it’s everywhere. And I was doing squash blossoms and figs and stuff. So he said, okay, let’s do it. I’m gonna invest fifty thousand dollars to build it. And I I mean, the time I thought that was so much money because I had no money. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Katie Collier: So I thought that’s great. We can totally do it. And we actually did. We just really just bought the pizza oven, and then we just moved all the furniture from the junk store into the into yeah. And I don’t know if you ever went to that one. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I don’t think I have. Speaker Katie Collier: Okay. But every table and chair was different in mismatch. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, yes. I have. Yes. I have. Yes. Speaker Katie Collier: So, it really was a hole in the wall. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: And, he there was a, and there was a issue, which was I’m gonna put up the fifty, but I’m gonna keep a hundred percent. And at the time, I was like, he’s, you know, he’s You’re newly sober. You’re twenty four. We’re not. Yeah. It’s my money. This will be, you know, work your way, sweat equity, and, eventually, I’ll give you some And, he never did, but it was like the best thing ever because Speaker Brett Gilliland: You you darn Speaker Katie Collier: it. In here I am today. And I think if he would have given it all to me, I would never understand what goes into it. That’s true. That’s true. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I tell my boys all the time. Like, my oldest is getting ready to go to college in in a year, and then he wants to get in the finance business. And I said, You need to go work somewhere else — Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, for sure. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — you know, go get your butt kicked somewhere else, and then you can come back maybe some other day, but Speaker Katie Collier: Just for your relationship. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Exactly. Speaker Katie Collier: But, so we opened up. It was a huge success because again, I was doing, like, all this crazy stuff on pizza, and it was all about you know, these regional specialty ingredients that I had learned about when I lived there. And then my drinking got really, really bad because I had all this attention. I thought I was really special. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Cool girl. New cool Speaker Katie Collier: girl. Yeah. And, also the stress and the pressure and the whole thing, it was too much for me. And I just spiraled spiraled spiral got kicked out of the business. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Fired by your own dad. Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: A tough conversation. Speaker Katie Collier: It’s happened many times by the fourth or time we were used to it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Here we go again. I get inspired. Speaker Katie Collier: And then the spiral got so bad that I ended up homeless homeless homeless, like nothing. Like, I no car, no phone, no money, everything I owned I had in a grocery bag, and I would just carry that everywhere I went. And my family and friends, like, They were all done, like totally done. And I remember the last I always talk about this. The I finally decided to get sober when I was like, mom, come on, like, let me stay with you. I have nowhere to go. I’ve been, like Speaker Brett Gilliland: Do you live in shelters, basically? Speaker Katie Collier: I was just literally Speaker Brett Gilliland: on the side Speaker Katie Collier: of the road. No. I was just living with, like, Speaker Brett Gilliland: Whoever. Speaker Katie Collier: Couches. You know? And then, but she was like, no. That’s it. We’re done. And so I think when mom Everyone’s turned their back on you. You gotta look at yourself. Yeah. Turn inward. And that was amazing because, you know, those really dark painful places are the only places really that you do look at yourself. Yeah. So I did And I was like, okay. Where am I gonna go? And I found a halfway house on South Broadway. And I went and checked in there, and I lived there for six months. Yeah. It was a really bad part of town. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I read someplace. Maybe it was our Hannibal Missouri stop Speaker Katie Collier: there was there was for a couple of days, like, Speaker Brett Gilliland: change smoking cigarettes and something I read. Speaker Katie Collier: It just in a room, and I was, yeah, that was right before that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. I ended up in the there’s a, like, a state run, treatment center in Han ball. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: I’d been to treatments before. I’d been in in hospitals and treatment centers before the nice treatment centers. And this was the end of the stage where you go to the state run one. And then finally, you end up in the halfway house. So and all of the women that were in the halfway house were out of prison or just off the streets. It was not like someone’s neighbor who just had a drinking problem. Like, these were people absolutely nothing left. So I lived there for six months, took the bus to Katie’s Gilliland got my job back, and you know, just did that until Speaker Brett Gilliland: Under you. Under you. So what do you think? I’m always fascinated. My wife and I, we had a date last night and this actually came up We were talking about I don’t even remember what we what we’ve brought up, but we were talking about something and how life can go one of well, many directions. Right? But you have You have kids that grow up super successful families. Right? Had everything, and they grow up and can be deadbeats. Right? You have kids that grow up super successful families and continue the success. You have people Right? You see where I’m going. You have people that had nothing that were successful. If you have not and you you took something, to a level that most don’t. Right? One, I think I saw what was it? Ninety five percent of people don’t recover from alcoholism and drugs. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. I think that’s a very generous statistic too. Yeah. Yeah. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: ninety five to ninety eight, ninety nine percent. Right? Don’t. You did. You also came from nothing. Again, one more research. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Not I wouldn’t call it nothing because when you look at there’s nothing nothing, but I would say, you know, there were times we didn’t have a car, like, with my dad’s house. We all slept on a mattress on the ground with no furniture for a couple of years. And eventually, like, there would be good times and everything. So I wouldn’t say I hate to say like dirt poor, but I would say, yeah. We didn’t have I never got a car when I was sixteen. I never went on any trips. Hand me down clothes. That kind Speaker Brett Gilliland: of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, again, you’ve taken it now to this level. Right? Right. So what is it about you? Do you think that’s inside you? Said, you know what? I’m gonna take it to this level. I can do this. Speaker Katie Collier: I’m an optimistic person. Like, I think I’m just really optimistic. And, I’ve seen my dad was just such a tough guy. He was so tough. Yeah. Really tough. And he always made it work, and he always, like, hustled really, really hard. So Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think that grit that hustles is everything. Right? Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: In any business. Speaker Katie Collier: Like, he would do anything. Yeah. You know, he was really tough. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Would you also believe this statement that if if I said all pizza places had to close tomorrow. Right? That’ll never happen. But if they all had to close, you had to go to a completely different business. Pick the business, you would still make it, wouldn’t you? Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, yeah. Because it’s all really about problem solving, managing people. Inspiring people and really, like, marketing. I’m really good at marketing. Yeah. The food is great. I mean, I’m all in about the food. The unions, everything. Yeah. But, no, it’s really about leadership because I have three hundred people that work for me. And if you’re not a good person, to work for or inspire, like, you can’t I can’t be in three three locations and a frozen pizza place making stuff. I need these people to help. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: And you can’t touch all three hundred people at the same time, and Speaker Katie Collier: then you go days and weeks without them. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right? Yeah. No. Exactly. Speaker Katie Collier: No. I want them to do it. It’s so cool to see people do really empowered, and they’re like feel very they there’s people that have been with me for ten plus years that really feel like they’re. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. They’re family. Speaker Katie Collier: They’re family. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think as a leader, right? We have to show the vision, build it, and then get out of the way. Speaker Katie Collier: Yes. Absolutely. Yep. Yeah. Getting out of the way is the hardest lesson for, I think, business owners, entrepreneurs get it. But, yeah, you gotta get out of the way, and you gotta let them fail, and you gotta pay the price to let them fail. And then they become so great. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So, again, back to the early days of the of the restaurant. And, you had to raise some money. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You had to do that. That’s not easy do. Speaker Katie Collier: No. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you raised money, and a lot of it was on a on a handshake. Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, yeah. So I didn’t Again, you Speaker Brett Gilliland: didn’t have really much bank not gonna be like, hey, here’s a million bucks. Speaker Katie Collier: Right? Right? Right? No. No. Not to me. They didn’t. Yeah. And they’re like, do you even have a bank account? How do we where do we put this money? So I did a kit. So I was trying to figure out how to raise money I’m really into marketing, and I really know that you need to get attention Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Katie Collier: to get to find these people. So someone had mentioned crowd funding. I look into it and I thought, okay, that’s really great. Not so much for the amount of money I’m gonna raise on Kickstarter because it’s not enough to build a restaurant. But, I’m gonna get a lot of attention for this and attract the investors. So that was really my motivation behind it. Because I just didn’t know anybody or know how to find the people because I wasn’t in that world. Right. So I did a Kickstarter campaign and we raised forty thousand dollars, which was, you know, enough for a wood fired pizza oven. And then I put at the top of the page for traditional investment opportunities, contact Katie’s Pizza at Gmail, and I got we got tons of people. Yeah. Because it was just it was right when You Speaker Brett Gilliland: didn’t tell a story, though. Right? Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, we told a great story. And, I wrote a great, you know, business plan and, like, the whole page was beautiful thoughts of pictures and videos and, like, what we were trying to do. And, It was really cool. Speaker Brett Gilliland: The people with money see that. And they say People Speaker Katie Collier: with money see that. And they also know that I’ve had this restaurant — Yeah. — quote unquote. Yeah. Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You made that out Speaker Katie Collier: of it. For, like, four or five years, and they are they love that restaurant, and they love me and all of this stuff. So they found it, and We got all these people. A couple became IOU handshake loans. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: And we paid them back in two years, which was great. And then the last piece of the puzzle was Michael Cupstas, and he’s he was he had just retired from Panera. He was the vice president of franchise. And he took them from, like, fifty locations to, like, two thousand. So he’s a really talented, amazing person. And he said, I re I’m just come back to me if you need if I wanna be I wanna have equity and we were really holding off at the end, we needed a little bit more and we knew if we were gonna do it with anybody, it’d be him. Yeah. So we sold him twenty percent. And he was the best best partner ever. Just such a wonderful person, and I’m still really good friends with him. I ended up buying him out, a couple of years ago. But we still talk all the time. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s so big to have a mentor like that too. Right? I’ve done it. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. And he just was such a fan, and he always said, you know, I’ve always wanted to work with you. I followed you. And so this was it was cool. Yeah. Yeah. It was really great. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I think Speaker Katie Collier: he gave us a lot of credibility with banks too. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: Like that was we just brought in my Yeah. Mister got upset. All over Speaker Brett Gilliland: the door, but you’re gonna go in Speaker Katie Collier: and sit right next Speaker Brett Gilliland: to me and just talk. And I’ll be quiet. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. And I learned so much from him about that world. And, leases. And, yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, yeah, again, we talked about education earlier, but you think that your business education will blow I mean, offense to the people that are in, you know, education, the but that that business degree that you have — Yeah. — degree you have. Speaker Katie Collier: Still getting. I’m Speaker Brett Gilliland: still getting every single day is priceless. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. I’m getting it. Yeah. Every single day, and I’ve had a co I’ve had a business fail, Verome, you’ll kick company. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: And, then a new frozen pizza business and scaling and It’s a lot. It’s really cool. And I Speaker Brett Gilliland: saw a video maybe on social media. You and your brother making some calls or going to a conference or something, wasn’t it? Speaker Katie Collier: And you gotta even Speaker Brett Gilliland: get a cell Speaker Katie Collier: at the grocery store. Right? Yeah. You’ve gotta get so we’re in hundred stores across the country. Our goal is to be in every grocery store in the next five years, and it’s totally gonna happen. Yeah. We have to go to these expos and, you know, you meet with the grocers and the buyers and the brokers and everything. And so that’s in whole another world. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s crazy. Speaker Katie Collier: And then we’ve got, a beverage coming out. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Nice. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: What kind of beverage? Speaker Katie Collier: So we’re known for yeah. It’s it’s in, production right now. So we did all of the everything, designed the can, and, the recipe and everything. Our watermelon cocktail. I don’t this is what we’re known for. So that and then a basil margarita. Oh, wow. I know. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Can’t wait. Speaker Katie Collier: I know. That’s awesome. So those will be in Dearburgs, and those will be in selling out of the, restaurants. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s cool. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. We’ll see where that goes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Walk up window. You can buy one. Speaker Katie Collier: I know. Well, we have one. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So let’s talk about how important it is to think big. Yeah. I I think I’ve thankfully I I think I’ve thought big most of my career and and I think that’s really helped. I when I think about your locations and and what you’ve done, I I keep bringing up ballpark village because it’s new. I’ve obviously been to the other ones as well. But You you have to think big, but you also have to believe big and believe in yourself. Yeah. So when you hear those things, what comes to mind for you? Speaker Katie Collier: I think it just gets the energy of yourself and everyone around you moving in that direction so it’s inevitable that it’s gonna happen. Yeah. That’s the way I look at it. Like, you can call it manifestation, and I don’t think it’s like a magical thing, like you wish something, and then you get someone waves a wand, and it happens. I think what’s happening is you’re you’re moving your life and your energy and people in that direction. Gilliland you’re just it’s amazing how it just kind of happens. And really thinking so big. I mean, if you even get close enough to or not or just short, you’re still pretty successful. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And you said it confidently, in humbly, but But, also, I think you just say it because this is how you believe, like, I’m going to be in every grocery store in America. Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And it’s going to happen. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. And you say it, and you Speaker Brett Gilliland: like, I believe it. Right? Feel the energy. I believe you you believe it? I believe it. And so, talk about that, though. Why? Speaker Katie Collier: Because I I like I said, I just believe that I’m moving my energy in that direction, and I also know that really anything is I just feel like anything’s possible. And you just have to have that positive attitude and keep trying. And, I think entrepreneurs really just never give up. So if you never get that’s how we’re successful is because everyone else just gives up. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You’re exactly right. Speaker Katie Collier: We’re not smarter. We just keep keep going. It’s like when I did the business plan at twenty, but you know, everyone said no for four years. A lot of people would be like, okay, that’s enough. No. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Nobody’s gonna do this. This is a bad idea. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Yeah. And it just did Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s funny. I I just I had this, discussion all the time with my Gilliland they now it’s the old dad thing. Oh, here we go again. You know, but it’s, you know, the old how do you spell, impossible? Have you heard that before? No. So how do you spell impossible? It’s I’m possible. Speaker Katie Collier: Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right? So I’m impossible. And so I always try to tell it to my kids, and I just believe that that that And and and you said your energy is going there. So when you say my energy is going there, what does that mean to you? Speaker Katie Collier: I think subconsciously, I just start to act in a certain way or start to accomplish certain things and start to move in that direction of achieving that goal. I think your subconscious is very Gilliland so you have to, like, say stuff and believe stuff. And then all of a sudden, you start, you start to make a turn in that direction. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I just read something the other day on some entrepreneur deal on one of this guy. I don’t believe with this. I don’t believe this comment, but he said, don’t tell anybody your plans because there’s so many negative people out there that just shuts it down. Speaker Katie Collier: I know. I don’t ever understand that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I don’t either. So I’m glad you didn’t Speaker Katie Collier: do that. Or, like, we need to don’t tell anybody because you know, they need to sign. I’m like, what are you talking about? Who cares? Tell everybody. Well, I think I think also you have to tell everybody because you never know who’s gonna say, oh my gosh, that’s exactly what I wanna do too, or I believe in you. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yep. And I think to the grit, what we were talking about earlier is that even if you do tell somebody about this new cocktail thing you’re making and I get the idea, Do I really have the stamina to go out and do it and build it and and make it happen? Speaker Katie Collier: No. No. I always it’s so funny. We have our dough recipes and all of our recipes posted, like, in the kitchen. And some a manager that we had hired was like, oh my gosh. Like, you can’t have that. Someone’s gonna take it and go, I’m like, go ahead. See you. There’s so many levels to this. It’s the people. It’s the story of our family. It’s you know, everything, and you can’t recreate it. You can go open a great pizza place, but it’s not gonna be. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, in you, right? Not to like he’s brag, but it’s like, I mean, you have to be part of that. You’re the face person. Speaker Katie Collier: Right. Right. I mean, here’s the Speaker Brett Gilliland: name, but you also have to be there. And you’re shaking hands at the front of the house and the back of the Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: If Speaker Brett Gilliland: you don’t have the front of the house good, then Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: It doesn’t Speaker Brett Gilliland: matter how good the pizza Speaker Katie Collier: None of that. No. They can I totally agree with you? And I think you also need to talk about it because then Yeah. You do you do meet people that can help you. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So as a busy, entrepreneur, a mom, all these things, how do you, how do you stay in the game? Like, how do you, you know? Speaker Katie Collier: I’m so healthy. It’s obnoxious. I love it. Yeah. Because I just my father was epileptic. Okay. Okay. My whole life. And then he had brain damage from the epilepsy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Wow. Speaker Katie Collier: And he had a lobotomy. I mean, it was like so sad. Sue’s disabled. And for some reason, the brain and just understanding the brain was so obviously very important to me because I was trying to heal him and also understand it and worried about myself. But I just know how much health the brain it needs. We have we’re like athletes. We have to fire on all cylinders. And so you have to do everything you can to stay, healthy. So I just eat really well. I exercise, and then I meditate. A lot. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love meditation. Speaker Katie Collier: I write, like, with a pen and paper because you cannot just type on the computer. It doesn’t do the same thing. You have to have to in paper. Yeah. I don’t know what it is. Have you heard about that? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, yeah. I mean, look behind you in in this journal. I mean, I I have journaled since July of two thousand Speaker Katie Collier: and five. Everywhere. Yeah. I mean, my child is gonna be left with some crazy stuff. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yes. And that’s why I’m like, I hope we one day they’ll read all this stuff. It’s from, you know, you’ll see the whole reason, vision even existing, you Speaker Katie Collier: know, like Speaker Brett Gilliland: all this stuff and and I think that’s powerful. Speaker Katie Collier: And then a lot of gratitude. So I write, I’m just big into that. So just writing gratitude. Let’s cause life is so tough. So you gotta kinda get your head together every day. Amen. So what Speaker Brett Gilliland: kind of exercising are you doing? Speaker Katie Collier: I’ve, like, I’ve got a trainer. So I guess it’s, like, resistance training. I wouldn’t call it weight lifting, but I would just call it. Yeah. Yeah. Resistance training, and then I hike a ton. K. And then I do some yoga. Got it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. What What’s your mission today? Like, when when somebody would ask you that question, what do you what do you think you’re here on Earth for? Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, gosh. Well, I do love I think what I love right now so much is creating opportunities for people to, like, realize potential. So I love that part about the business. I think scaling is gonna be really fun because it’s gonna allow more of that to happen. And then, yeah, I think showing people, definitely the addiction stuff. I think, showing people that there’s a way out. There’s a, you know, a new life and all of that inspiring people in that way is very important to me as well or whatever struggle you’re going through. Speaker Brett Gilliland: How long have you been sober? Speaker Katie Collier: Twelve years. I’ll thirteen. No. Yeah. 12:12 years. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. And still a battle? Speaker Katie Collier: No. No? It’s not. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s awesome. Yeah. Good for you. Speaker Katie Collier: That’s great. I really don’t think about it at all. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: That’s great. I don’t know. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Think time. Do you do you spend much time thinking how important is that to you? Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Every day. Every morning, I get up at, like, 04:30. Yep. Coffee. God. Meditation, clear it out, and then I start writing and thinking. In visualizing, and I do it every day. Speaker Brett Gilliland: How are you how do you meditate? Speaker Katie Collier: I have to I like to do outside I like to be I focus on, like, outside sounds, so birds, insects, and stuff like that. Yep. And then that’s it. So no Speaker Brett Gilliland: app or anything that Speaker Katie Collier: you use? Sometimes I’ll do like music, like meditation music, but no app. I’ve done headspace before. It’s just like I don’t know. I feel like there’s a time limit on it, so then I’m focusing on when is the the bell gonna come off. Yeah. You’re Speaker Brett Gilliland: right. It it, I I started with headspace, you know, probably ten year, you know, twelve years ago, thirteen years ago, something like that. And I needed that because I didn’t know what the hell meditation Speaker Katie Collier: Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: And then it was a guy. I’m like, oh, man, I’m so wimpy. Like, you know, I never I didn’t tell anybody. I’m doing meditation. Speaker Katie Collier: People think it’s like a religious thing. I’m like, no. This is when we’re all supposed to do. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And just to breathe, we’re all shallow breathing. You know? Speaker Katie Collier: Right. Clear off the brain for a little bit. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You do box breathing? Like, you know, four inch. Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. All of that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: All that. Speaker Katie Collier: All the crazy stuff. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like it. I like it. What I Speaker Katie Collier: would say walking too is a really natural way to get into meditation. It’s a really proven way because the rhythm of walking something does something brain. So if you can’t get there yet, just go on a walk. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: In nature too. Yeah. Let’s talk about fear. I asked this question on almost every pot. Cast. And it’s a the fears we put in our mind. Right? Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. We Speaker Brett Gilliland: think we all do, maybe. How many of those fears you’ve put in your mind actually blew up to the magnitude you put your mind to be? Speaker Katie Collier: Well, none so far. I mean, I think that the thing is they don’t actually happen. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s the point of the question. Right? Is everybody sits here and they’re like, they all pause and they’re like, well, none of them. You know? And it’s like, well, but but yeah, how many people are listening to podcasts right now or driving down the road here on the interstate? And they have a fear. Right? It’s in their mind right now. This thing is going to happen. Speaker Katie Collier: One thing I always do, and I think when my father passed, it was such a crazy thing where I had to get really in the present moment. And when I got in the present moment, I realized that every time I’m in the present moment, I’m okay. Like, think about that. You’re all every time you’re you’re you’re okay. There’s never been a time when you weren’t okay. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So how do you do that? Speaker Katie Collier: I just remember that. And so they go, okay. Just get here right now. Are you okay? Yeah. You’ve always been okay? So you’re always gonna be okay. Yeah. You need to go by the Speaker Brett Gilliland: Talk to that person right now that’s in the dumps though. Right? I mean, they’re they’re in a room, and they’re just like, yeah, whatever. They happen to stumble across this podcast, and they’re like, yeah, but you don’t understand my situation. It’s I’m in the dumps. It’s bad. I’m not gonna get Right? Speaker Katie Collier: The only thing that I can do or suggest to get out of it. The only thing that’s ever worked for me or I’ve seen work for everyone I’ve offered it too is just write down one thing you’re grateful for. And when you write down that one thing, it leads to two, and then it leads to three. And you think you can’t even write down one, and it’s there’s something that happens to you when you start to realize that there’s stuff. There’s a light. There’s stuff to be grateful for, and you’re and it kind of proves that you’re okay. Yep. Yeah. That’s, you know, really the only thing that works. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m gonna, shameless plug here in my own journal that I gave you a copy of. Speaker Katie Collier: Fill it Speaker Brett Gilliland: up as I Speaker Katie Collier: told you. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And it is a a gratitude worksheet. And in that gratitude worksheet, I I’m a I’ve loved taking pictures. K. My it probably drives my kids nuts, but I I started doing this a few years ago that every ninety days, I’ll go through and look at all the last ninety day pictures. And I write down right here month one. Exactly. You know, went to Katie’s pasta, pizza and pasta ballpark village with kids. Right? I’ll literally write that down in my journal because I’m looking at the picture because how many times do we take pictures and we never look at them? Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, that’s always a joke that I always say I go here’s another picture I’m never gonna look at. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So every ninety days, though, imagine if you go through those pictures and you write them down, and now I’m in a space every ninety day. I do the gratitude. You’ll see every day. My daily planner. Today, I’m grateful for. And then, but the every ninety days, you can go through that and just like, man, look how great life is. Like, look at all Speaker Katie Collier: this stuff I’ve done. Yeah. Because sometimes you think like, oh, I’m not achieving enough. I’m not doing enough. I’m not successful enough or whatever. And then you go and look. That’s amazing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. So you got three months of that. And then you end with us is what experiences can I schedule for the next ninety days? So now we gotta be purposeful. Speaker Katie Collier: My gosh, love it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: What are the things we can put on our calendar? Because you’re like me, I’m sure that if you get so busy, you know you wanna do that thing. Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: But if Speaker Brett Gilliland: you don’t put it on the calendar, it doesn’t happen. Speaker Katie Collier: Right. So now Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And so now I gotta put it on my calendar. So the next ninety days, what are the experiences I wanna create — Yeah. — in Gilliland Speaker Katie Collier: how often do you do those things? Cause you wrote them down. You probably do a lot of them. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Almost every one of them, Speaker Katie Collier: actually. Yeah. That’s so cool. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Experiences you know, either I’m gonna go with buddies on a golf trip or it’s something to do with my kids or something, you know, whatever it is, they’re there. And they and to your point, they happen because they’re written down. And they go on the calendar. Speaker Katie Collier: And then your energy starts to move it in that direction. Yeah. And I Speaker Brett Gilliland: think the time we take to do those experiences allows us to be even better at work because we’re recharging. Speaker Katie Collier: Well, that’s a pro I like that’s really cool. I’m gonna I’m gonna try it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Yeah. I love it. I love it. When you hear the words, future greater than your past, that is our mission statement. That is the journal. That is everything that we do here at visionary is helping people achieve a future greater than your past. What do you say about that? Speaker Katie Collier: Believe it right now. Yeah. You gotta believe it. Like, it’s you gotta whatever you want in the future, believe it’s happening now. And then, yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. Speaker Katie Collier: Kind of just set the stage. We’re already in it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Anything that you would wanna publicly share that is, that’s out there for you, that dream, that thing. Right? Yeah. Because I believe in that too, and I think you do as well. These things that wanna go do when you say them, they’re now they’re out there in the universe. Speaker Katie Collier: Right. Well, we’ve got I told you we’re gonna have our frozen pizzas everywhere. And then I really wanna start to bring Katie’s pizza and pasta to other markets. So, looking at Nashville, Kansas City, Gilliland Denver. Wow. Yep. Those are kinda my top four right now. So I really, really wanna do that. And then, I really would love to either write a book or do something around my story. And whether it’s speaking or like I said, because I wanna inspire people who have addiction or struggles or whatever that — Yep. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Katie Collier: you don’t need a college Speaker Brett Gilliland: degree. What Gilliland so your passion today around that is is what? Just purely helping individuals become better? Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. I think so. I don’t think you can make a lot of money off a book, so it’s not money. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: They sell a lot of books. You Speaker Katie Collier: make a lot of money. Right. Yeah. You’re doing Harry Potter. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s true. Which we just went to Harry Potterland down in Disney World. Speaker Katie Collier: Or I Speaker Brett Gilliland: guess it was in Universal. Speaker Katie Collier: Also, I think Carl Young said, like, the best thing you can do for your psyche is to write down your story. And then your life starts to kind of become even better. You understand yourself a little bit better. So I Speaker Brett Gilliland: think the legacy too. I mean, think again, the stuff that you’ve gone through — Mhmm. — and and where you’re at today You mean, people are out there that don’t believe in Katie’s dream. Right? I mean, that they’re Katie. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: If somebody would have told you at eighteen years old, this is what you’re gonna look like at XAs. Speaker Katie Collier: Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Do you believe that? It’s hard. Speaker Katie Collier: It’s hard. Very hard. Yeah. No books are magical Gilliland they can really help. Yeah. People kinda see themselves. It’s really you become a mirror. Just becoming a mirror for somebody else. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: What, what would you tell yourself if you could go back to that twenty, twenty five year old, Katie. What advice would you give her today? Speaker Katie Collier: Oh my gosh. I don’t know what I would change. I would just say hang in there and it’s gonna be okay. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s the exact advice I give myself. Like, it’s gonna be okay. Speaker Katie Collier: It’s gonna be okay. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s gonna be alright. You’re gonna make it. It’s gonna be okay. Speaker Katie Collier: We always happen and we always will be. That’s how I feel. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right. What, where do our listeners find more of Katie Collier? Speaker Katie Collier: Well, I’m really big on Instagram. I love to post a lot of stuff about, you know, all the stuff I’m talking about in my life. My daughter, my business. So I’m very transparent and vulnerable on that platform. So, follow me there at Katie’s Pizza in Boston. Yep. And then, you can go to we’ve got three locations in Saint Louis or we’re in grocery across the country, and we also do e commerce shipping anywhere in the Speaker Brett Gilliland: US. Right. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Katie’s pizza dot com. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Katie’s pizza dot com. So you you should, said transparent and vulnerable. Yes. Don’t you believe that you have to be that way if I mean, to buy into the brand. Right? Speaker Katie Collier: Right. Yeah. No. My father was. He was like, he would just tell you every detail stranger, the whole Speaker Brett Gilliland: If you’re listening, I’m telling you. Speaker Katie Collier: And, so I was just raised. What I saw was, like, it would maybe offend one or two people, but the majority of the people would just be so like, in love with the fact that there was a person whose, like, walls were down and then they would open up. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: And he had so many friends and so many people that just were attracted to him because of that. So I saw that and I was like, oh, that’s how you really can connect with people is through that vulnerability transparency, which is really just honesty. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So I’m on your, which which Instagram should I go to? Speaker Katie Collier: It doesn’t matter. We can go to that one. Alright. Speaker Brett Gilliland: We’re playing our Instagram game. So picking that oh, look at that watermelon drink. There it is. So let’s pick a number between one and ten. Speaker Katie Collier: Nine. Always nine. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Why is that? Speaker Katie Collier: It’s like the magical number. I don’t know. Tesla said it was. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, I like that. And then, between one and three, Speaker Katie Collier: Three. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Number three. I do this game because we’re gonna this it’s called Lobster Thermidor. Look it up. The kids don’t know, but we know. Soft note being at ballpark Village. So it’s a video of the guy doing something here with the laughter, I assume. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So talk us, about that post. Speaker Katie Collier: Well, ballpark village is really cool because we’ve always had these tiny restaurants and this has a big beautiful kitchen where we can do all kinds of crazy stuff that we can’t. The other places. So that is a beautiful lobster dish. It’s a main lobster split in half Speaker Brett Gilliland: and that. Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: It’s beautiful. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You got one item to order. What are you ordering? Speaker Katie Collier: I eat oh, I love steak. So we have a a Bisteca florentine, which is a rib eye, and got fennel pollen and roasted garlic and balsamic and it’s really good. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I’m going tonight. Another date, two nights, I can just talk about this. My wife and I wanna date last night, going on a date tonight too. I think we’re gonna go we’re gonna go to the restaurant tonight on the way up to our show. Speaker Katie Collier: And get a steak a lobster. Alright. Speaker Brett Gilliland: We’re in. Speaker Katie Collier: We’ll do it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Katie, it’s awesome having you. Thank you for sharing your story with us.

On this episode of Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews former NBA player Larry Hughes. Hughes shares his journey of hard work and perseverance, his relationship with his godson Jason Tatum, and the lessons he learned from LeBron James. He also discusses the importance of attitude and gratitude, as well as his passion for basketball and his academy for young people. Tune in to learn more about Hughes’ insights on success and leadership. Youtube   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success, and thank you for joining me. You know, it’s been said that success comes to those who wait, but believe the opposite. I believe that it’s earned with the right attitude, a great belief system, an action every single day. When you mix that in with faith, courage, Gilliland, and most importantly a vision, that’s when greatness happens. Now let’s dive right in to this week’s guest. Speaker Larry Hughes: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. And today, Speaker Brett Gilliland: I mean, I’m fired up because Speaker Larry Hughes: I love basketball. I’m excited to be here with Mr. Larry Hughes. How you doing? Speaker 3: I’m good. Thanks for having me. Speaker Larry Hughes: Thanks for being here. We got our friend, our friend Ryan Luxafell over here. Speaker 3: Do Speaker Larry Hughes: we even talk about the quote that we just heard my friend, Mike, who you just met? Speaker 3: You know what? I hear it all the time. That’s his, that’s his go to. Speaker Larry Hughes: So Ryan likes to say he’s, he outscored you college, but the the context is there. How many years did it take Ryan to do that? Right? Speaker 3: Yeah. It took him, what, four or five. No. T took him four. It took me one. That’s right. But yeah. No. Those are good times. Definitely good times in my life. Well, we’ll Speaker Larry Hughes: talk more about that stuff. But for those people that may not know who Larry Hughes is, why don’t you give us a little background about yourself, where you grew up, what made you the man you are today? Speaker 3: Larry Hughes, thirty nine years old, from Saint Louis, Missouri, Downtown, Saint Louis. Born and raised, a bleed Saint Louis, bleed three one four. And that’s really what’s made me the person am today. My community, my surroundings, my environment, being raised by my mother who was a single parent, just still, you know, just values of working hard, you know, pushing through, never give up. You know, and that’s carried me, through my life and just, to, keep pushing. You always have adversity, and St. Louis is built around, you know, adversity and fighting through the struggle. So Really, that’s that’s what shaped me, you know, and that’s that’s what I carry with me, through the many places I’ve played in the NBA, the many places that I’ve traveled. You know, there’s no problems. There’s only solutions. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Yeah. Especially if you can be the, be the solution, right, come with the solution instead of having a problem and complain about it. We always talk about that here at work. Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s huge. I mean, you know, I obviously run run a run a business and, and, you know, have employees that work for me as well. And, you know, there’s always things that come up you know, there’s always things you have to deal with on a daily basis, but, you know, I’m I’m being gonna come to me with the solution to the problem that you thought you had as opposed to giving me a problem that you know — So Speaker Larry Hughes: you gotta fix. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker 3: that I have to fix. Exactly. Exactly right. Speaker Larry Hughes: So we gotta talk about it. You were on the, the Gilliland Wingo show yesterday. Now you gotta, you know, come hang out with this guy. Yeah. Which is kinda funny for me. Yeah. But, or cool for me. But, anyway, godfather Jason Tatum. Play with LeBron. Mhmm. We’re just talking about the game. What are your thoughts on what Jason’s doing for the Boston Celtics right now and being from Saint Louis? Speaker 3: Well, I’m I’m more I’m excited for him. I’m following them keeping up with them on my phone, you know, in television, you know, we’ve gone to a few games. But me and Jason’s dad are are closed Justin. We grew up together that’s like my brother. So, yes, that’s my godson, and that’s, you know, that’s the title. But he’s really like my nephew because me and Justin are, are our brothers. We, like I said, we’ve grown together. I call his mom, you know, my mom, his little, his little sister is my sister. So it’s a, it’s a family Gilliland, I’m just happy to see him successful. You dropped into a great situation being in Boston, with the great coach, great history, from an organizational standpoint. So I’m I’m happy. I’m glad that’s where he he ended up at. Speaker Larry Hughes: It’s phenomenal to see. And so I think what do you think? So right now, when you think about when you played or the mindset verbatim, I mean, some people get on that show and it’s the big light, right? And they don’t they don’t do what he’s doing. Yeah. Speaker 3: So what Speaker Larry Hughes: do you think he’s doing mentally that’s different than what a lot of other people maybe didn’t rise on the occasion with? Speaker 3: I think he’s been been prepped, you know, for the situation. I think he’s, you know, had a goal in mind from a young kid. I think, everyone around him, you know, supported his goals. To to help him get to to where he wanted to be. And I think he’s been prepped for it, playing a lot of basketball, doing a lot of skill development work, a lot of communication, going to a good high school, all that stuff plays into, you know, what he’s doing now. I mean, it’s his foundation, and that’s what’s he’s able to show, you know, once the lights come on? Speaker Larry Hughes: Yep. Yeah. So let’s talk about also then about LeBron James. You play with LeBron. Saw you were the second leading scorer behind LeBron James, the year you guys went to the NBA finals. And so, what’d you learn from LeBron or maybe what did you even teach LeBron? Speaker 3: Because you Speaker Larry Hughes: played with him when he was young mean, what was it like playing with a guy that now is, you know, arguably one of the top two or three greatest players in the ever to play? Speaker 3: Well, like I said, all those things that I learned you know, growing up, you know, as far as adversity, you know, never give up. I always fight through. I always push through. You know, those are the conversations that I was having with Braun. I mean, as as a young kid, you know, coming into the lead, you know, if it was a match up, if it was a tough match up, maybe it’s, say, Carmelo Anthony, A lot of times I had that matchup early on. Yeah. You know, but now you see Braun taking that matchup. It’s because that’s what we talked about. Right. If you that’s what you want. You have to take on that matchup. You have to take on that challenge and you have to push through. So think I had a, you know, a little hand in. You know, it’s kind of this early, thought process as far as to what, you know, he wanted to be in the league. Speaker Larry Hughes: So talk to us about success. What? How do you define success for your life and, and for others? Speaker 3: Success is, it’s a journey. It’s opportunity. And success is being prepared, to sacrifice. And I think you don’t get to to be successful if you don’t, sacrifice. Sacrificing time, that’s sacrificing family, that’s sacrificing excitement. So being successful for me is, just having the opportunity to to help others, at the same time, do right by yourself. Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: So, obviously, you, you know, sports guy, all that kind of stuff, but now being the business and we talked about that just a second ago. But why is the fundamentals? And I know it’s big in the Larry Hughes Basketball Academy, but but the fundamentals and the basics apply that to the business Gilliland for our listeners, the business leaders that are out there listening. Why are fundamentals in doing the basics so important? Speaker 3: I think it’s the foundation. Know, I think it’s it’s building the legs to the table. From a business standpoint, I mean, obviously having the right system in place of, you know, your your numbers and your performance, but, you know, hiring the right people, you know, and having the right people involved with with what your mission is and where you’re pushing to is you know, it’s the biggest factor in business. You know, but that’s how you lay your foundation. That’s how you build your culture of, you know, how you’re gonna operate as a business. And You know, it’s it’s a learning process, and and people have done it for years and years and years, so there’s books and there’s information out there. But until you’re in it, it it looks different you know, all the time. Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: And I think it’s hard too. Don’t I mean, I assume you would agree with this, but, you know, when you have been successful and you’ve done something for a long time to still commit to the basis Right? And so I remember I went to Cardinal Spring training a few years back. And I was just fascinated by the fact that they were, you know, practicing how to bunt and practicing how to the the the pitcher to go cover first base on a bunt and catch the ball, right? Those little things that As you probably see kids today and I know my kids and Ryan’s kids, it’s like for them to focus on those simple tasks, kids don’t want to do it. Speaker 3: Now, and and and we’re results driven. So they see that, and they think that that just kind of happened. Right? They just see that. Yeah. They’re maybe that they’re older. So they they just gain that sort of knowledge. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Speaker 3: You know, from the little kids. But, you know, if they continue to build in that way in that in, in that format, then they’ll have those skills to do the extra stuff. Yeah. Right? But the extra stuff only comes when you have the basics, like if Steph Curry couldn’t shoot a free throw, he couldn’t shoot at three point from half court. I mean, so he’s building that foundation and now be the person that you see. In in basketball, a lot of kids wanna follow because he shoots the ball from — Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker 3: from, you know, anyone Anywhere he wants. Right. Yep. Speaker Larry Hughes: It makes it. So, talk about that leadership. So on and off the court, and especially now using that business mindset, What does it take to be a great leader? Speaker 3: Man, that’s for me, it’s being a listener, being a listener, and in in giving or, allowing ownership of of what you’re doing. Right? Even if they’re an employee, if they’re an hourly employee, you know, letting them have ownership in what they’re doing, what they’re working with. I found that’s been good, you know, from from a leadership standpoint because you get to buy in. You know, and that’s, you know, being a leader. I mean, if you can get the buy in, and you’re headed in the right direction. Yep. Speaker Larry Hughes: And how do you do that? So I noticed you had your mission statement and all that kind of stuff. Is that that’s something that you you do because of your Gilliland you you take some time away from the business and work on that, or how does that come to your to your business world? Speaker 3: Well, I actually, It’s good to know people. Yep. So I’ve been connected. Had the opportunity to talk to some good business people, who build businesses. That’s what they do. Yep. You know, and not to be the smartest person in the room, I find that to be, you know, taking back steps. So I always want to surround myself with good people. And learn from them. So a lot of the information I’m giving you today or that I talk about is things that I’ve learned that I’ve heard that I’m able to apply to the things that I do in in everyday life. So so listening on both ends, you’re listening to your, your employees or your staff, but also listen to the people that done it before you that have made those mistakes and can make you a better, Speaker Larry Hughes: leader. Something I saw when I was researching this and I say it all the time and people around me probably get tired of hearing me saying it, but I say we gotta slow down to speed up. Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: Right? And I heard you say in the I think it was yesterday, actually, on the the Golock show, and and you said you gotta slow down to speed up in the NBA because they were talking about how lebron’s average speed was the slowest in the NBA or something like that and how irrelevant that is. But talk to us about slowing down the speed up and why that’s so important Speaker 3: or in a basketball sense, I think that that’s how we develop the kids. They’re in the game, so they just start. A million things going on at one time. You got, you know, nine other kids asking for the basketball. You got five other people trying to snatch the basketball from you on defense. So there’s a lot of things going on. So their game is just fast. I mean, they’re running, you know, full speed. It’s a rat race. Right? In the NBA, you talk about, you slow down to get organized, then you go ahead and execute what you’ve been working on. That’s the difference between youth basketball and and obviously the professional level. But from a business standpoint, it’s just the the basic blocking, tackling, it’s to, you know, is your website accurate, right? If someone clicks onto your site, can they get to what they wanna get to, right? If they wanna sign up, they just have to click you know, one time or two times or three times, right? They click three times. They’re probably not gonna sign up. So these are the kind of things that we’ve learned from just from a basic, like blocking and tackling to make sure that what you’re offering, people can actually get to it. Speaker Larry Hughes: That’s good. That’s good advice too, because in the speed of the world, right, we live in. We wanna We want it right now. Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. And I had a click three times. I’m not Speaker 3: doing it. You’re not doing it. Speaker Larry Hughes: Which is crazy. But, what would you tell the Larry Hughes of ten or fifteen years ago. Go back into your life, and what would you tell that guy? Speaker 3: Man, continue to listen, you know, continue to, keep your ears open. Your mouth closed, you know, you know, for the majority of the time, and be patient, continue to be patient And you’re gonna make mistakes, but I think that that’s adversity and that that builds your character. You know, as soon as you make those mistakes, the faster you can, planted information, be better than you were the first time, and stay positive, you know, because things happen in this world and in this space that you can’t control, and, you just have to adjust to it, you have to deal with it, and you gotta push through. So those are that’s what I would tell my Speaker Larry Hughes: Absolutely to adapt, right? Speaker 3: They did that for sure. Speaker Larry Hughes: And so when you think when you look back at Larry Hughes ten or fifteen years ago, you were playing, was there the Larry that maybe didn’t listen? Speaker 3: Of course. Of course. I mean, I remember first coming into the league, being under Larry Brown as, you know, eighteen year old kid that, you know, been playing basketball at a high level for, you know, a number of years, and you have to take it back a step so you can listen understand what the transition is from the NBA, excuse me, from college to the NBA. Yeah. So, yeah, I would definitely, you know, listen a little bit more, I’ve I’ve always been a listener, but how the other person received me listening, I would say that that’s one thing that I could change. Speaker Larry Hughes: That’s a big deal to listen, and I appreciate you keep talking about that because it is important. The more we talk, right? Speaker 3: The more we Oh, yeah. For sure. Speaker Larry Hughes: Probably get ourselves in more trouble we do anything. So what was it like? So you you go to slough. You guys had, you know, a great, your freshman year had a great season. Then you go to the NBA, or is it because, you know, you were this unbelievably good high school basketball player, great college basketball player, and now you go to the MBA right, where everybody’s good. Speaker 3: Yep. I Speaker Larry Hughes: mean, what was that transition like for you? Speaker 3: I enjoyed it, you know, because I enjoyed to compete. You know, I enjoyed, you know, before the league, I mean, I was actually traveling around and playing against high level competition. So I knew that I could, you know, play at a high level. When you get into a locker room with grown men and, you know, they they have different issues and different problems, and then you have it at eighteen. It’s it’s different. And then, and then the workload is is different. But for me, it was about to work. Like, if you said, you know, 06:00AM, 04:00AM, you had to get roll work in and then we have to go and practice. I’ll do it just because that’s the you know, the competition. That’s the workload. That’s what goes along with it. So there wasn’t a huge, huge transition other than the workload and obviously playing against you know, grown men. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Well, another professional athlete told me this one time, and they said that it the the hardest thing wasn’t getting in this a baseball player wasn’t getting to the big leagues, but it was staying in the big leagues. I mean, was that something you constantly focused on in the off season and did that drive you at all? Speaker 3: You know what? I didn’t think about that until probably 10:11, twelve years in. Like, you know, you think about the draft, right? They have a draft and thirty, forty kids get picked up. So that means thirty, somebody Speaker Larry Hughes: wants your job. Speaker 3: Yeah. Somebody has to go. Like, the number’s like, so somebody has to go. But I didn’t realize that, you know, from year one to seven or eight. I mean, like, it didn’t. I felt I was good enough that it just didn’t matter. Yeah. Right? But I didn’t, you know, until, you know, year ten, and I’m like, you know what? I gotta do extra work, not get in shape as fast as I, I, I, I usually do. Then you know what the draft’s coming around. Maybe somebody coming to take this spot. So, yeah, after year ten, I mean, that that came into play. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yep. Yep. So let’s talk about the circuits of success and, we talked very briefly about this earlier, but when you hear the word attitude, what comes to mind? Speaker 3: For me, it’s it’s your reflection. It’s, attitude has a lot to do with, with with gratitude. We kind of put those things together within our program’s attitude and gratitude is because, you know, if you’re able to show gratitude, then then your attitude is is it should be a positive one. Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: It’s hard to be, thankful and mad all at the same Speaker 3: time. Exactly. Speaker Larry Hughes: Exactly. So beliefs, what were your belief systems growing up playing? Today in the business world, what are those beliefs, those fundamentals that you know Larry Hughes has to do every single day to be successful? Speaker 3: I have a positive outlook. You know, when I wake up in the morning, I have a positive outlook. Speaker Larry Hughes: So how may I interrupt you, sorry, real quick? So how do you do that? So, because not every day you wake up and it’s like, oh, it’s, you know, like today, seventy two and sunny, So how do you, how do you get yourself in that positive mindset? Speaker 3: I think it’s, it’s over time for me, knowing that you’re not gonna win every day. So the the the your best chance to be successful in that day is to have a positive start to that day to think positive. And I have a huge to do list. So things that I don’t get to, I just roll it over to the next day. Yeah. So I’m continuously rolling. So when I wake up the next day, it’s like What do I have to attack today? Speaker Larry Hughes: Right. Speaker 3: Alright. What what sort of success will I find today? Because if I don’t find success in the first thing, I just move on to the second or to the third or to the fourth. Because I’ve created that mindset of these are the things that I wanna get done today. And if I don’t get them done today, then I’ll just roll them into the next day There’s no failure that I didn’t get to it that first day because I roll it into to the next day. Speaker Larry Hughes: Never give up on it. And so are you a visualization person? I mean, you know, a lot of people you’ll hear wake up in the morning and they visualize the day or they visualize their visions and the things they wanna do and who they wanna become. Is that, is that to you. Speaker 3: I I think that could be a would be a combination of of vision and planning. I’m a I’m a huge planner, use two different, you know, calendars, for my day, business and family. So I would definitely say that yes, that’s, you know, I envision being successful every day. Got it. I I envisioned being successful. I envision anything that I left off, you know, from a phone call or from an email to wake up in that email that said, yes, it’s approved, yes, it’s success, or yes, it’s a go. Yep. Like, I, I, you know, I look forward to that. Speaker Larry Hughes: Right. And wouldn’t you agree that it is a choice? I mean, because you could, you could wake up every day, right, and have a bad attitude. Speaker 3: Yeah. For sure. For sure. I I would definitely, a hundred percent, that that it’s a choice. Yep. Circumstances are what they are. But your mindset is, is, you know, something that, you know, most of us control. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yep. Absolutely. So what are the actions? I mean, what did you do again playing now in the business world, what are those actions? If you know, if you do these, you know, this one or two or three things every day, you’ll be successful. Speaker 3: I would have to say listen for me. Listen for me because I think in business, there’s a there’s always, you know, things on a table that are spinning that are, you know, just ready to tip-off the table. Yep. So me listening and understanding what those issues are and then applying energy, to certain situations. So it always comes back to to listening, and and and being prepared to to listen because you know, there’s a lot of hidden gems within conversations. Right. And if you don’t listen, then, you know, you can’t pick them up. Speaker Larry Hughes: So when I say the words, talent versus hard work, what comes to mind? Speaker 3: I think talent is is given and hard work is is something that you, you develop over time. But I definitely think that you’re you’re given talent. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Just kinda born with it? Yeah. Speaker 3: I think you’re you’re born with talent. Yeah. It’s it’s what you apply to that talent. That’s, you know, hard work and a dedication part that happens over time. Yep. Because you, you know, you won’t be successful just in one day. That’s something that’s gonna happen, you know, over time. So that’s, you know, that that’s really my my mindset. Speaker Larry Hughes: Right. Was the old saying something like, hard work beats talent, if talent doesn’t work. Exactly. Speaker 3: So you Speaker Larry Hughes: can be talented all day long, but if you don’t work at it, Yeah. Speaker 3: Because it’s a gift. Right. It’s a gift, just like it’s something that someone gives you for your birthday. And if it’s, you know, if it’s a video camera and you put it up on your shelf, and you, you never use it. And it you just got a video camera for, for a present, and you never, you never use it. But we’ll look at all those things that that video camera can do if you actually you know, apply what what it is. Speaker Larry Hughes: Good analogy. So let’s talk about fears. Did, were fears ever a big part of your, you know, either growing up or when playing all that stuff. Was it was feared that it drive you? Speaker 3: Yeah, fear drives you drives me. It motivates me. I really only fear loss, really, and that’s not lost in a in a competitive situation. That’s lost like you know, from a family or close friends standpoint. Like, I don’t fear anything else. Like, that’s that’s, you know, business day or basketball day or competition day, a hard work day, you know, no problems at all, you know, just one fear of, you know, the loss. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. And how many of the fears you put in your mind actually came true to the magnitude you put them in your mind to be? Speaker 3: Probably just won me. I lost my brother, you know, when I was, in Cleveland in, six, and that was something that was a fear that was like, it was real. Speaker Larry Hughes: Right. It Speaker 3: was real. And it was one of those tough things to get over. But using basketball helped me, you know, get over that, you know, that fear of what’s next? Speaker Larry Hughes: And he was sick for a while. Right? Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. He was, he was a heart transplant recipient, and, he was, you know, getting ready pretty close to being on the list for a their heart. Wow. Because he had it for, ten plus years. So yeah. Wow. Speaker Larry Hughes: So that was, that was tough. So let’s talk about your habits and your rituals for success. What were those habits that you did every single day? I know you talked about the listening and the positive attitude, but what what was the Was it working out? Was it eating a certain way? Were you superstitious? I mean, what were the things that you did? Speaker 3: Nah. You know what? I have one habit or maybe super stitching is always put my right foot shoe on first. Speaker Larry Hughes: Is that right? Speaker 3: And that’s, you know, I don’t know where it came from. Maybe it was after having a good game or a good experience or something, but I’ve and I actually don’t really know when it start. I just noted myself. Yeah, because one day I put my left foot on him, I was like, oh, it’s not it’s not right. Red you. Take it off. Yeah. And put my right shoe on, and then put my my my left shoe. Speaker Larry Hughes: So for those of you listening, so Larry’s guaranteeing if you put your right shoe on first, you’ll be successful. Speaker 3: You may be successful. However, you you can always try it. You can always try it. Speaker Larry Hughes: So let’s talk about for people that, you you get off track, you get disappointed, right? Because not everything is a success and as much as we like to talk about success. It’s not reality to always be successful. So what did you do and what could you recommend? And even the people you saw that were great, at their sport, what did they do to bounce back quickly from disappointment? Speaker 3: I think preparation preparing yourself. It’s hard work, that’s road work, that’s doing everything before you actually get into that situation. So if you shot poorly, you’re getting up extra shots. You know, those are the things that are consistent. And that’s work. Work is consistent. If if if you’re able to apply the work, you can be consistent and, you know, things will will will using and positive. Speaker Larry Hughes: So in your world, unlike, you know, my world, in the business world, we don’t have the, you know, the everyday media all over us. If we miss a shot, we do this or critique in every one of our moves. Right? So how did you clear the noise and just go perform? Speaker 3: I think that’s your mindset. My mindset, was to be focused on who I am, understand who I am. How I deal with the medias is was a thought process, right? They’re covering a game, they’re covering what your actions are, they’re covering what doing. They’re not necessarily covering who you are, what you’re going through or what you’ve been through because they don’t know a lot of times when you go, you know, o four eight, you know, what’s really going on in your head. Like, they don’t really know that. So they can only talk about what the action is. Yeah. So I never took it personal, and that allowed me just to move on. And I’m a huge listener. I’m not a big talker, so I see those guys out. There’s no there’s no issue. We just move on to the next you know, to to the next deal. Speaker Larry Hughes: Well, you got voted, most, like, most acceptable of the media. Speaker 3: Yeah. I did. I did in in in in Cleveland. Yeah. Because it’s it’s it’s their job. It’s their job. You communicate with them. But again, they don’t know what’s actually going on. They only know, you know, what those actions are. So for me, I never took anything personally. Oh, this guy shouldn’t be paid this amount of money. Well, it’s not up to you to decide. And my family is very happy that we’re in this position. So I wouldn’t take that personal. Yep. You know, so I’m able to not have any, you know, clouded thought process when I’m going out to play. It’s just the basketball game I’m going to play. Speaker Larry Hughes: It’s probably better to keep those guys on the good side anyway. Right? Speaker 3: Always. They have last word. Right. Exactly. They have the last word. It’s gonna be in print. They have the last word. And, you know, they’re trying to, to feed their families as well. Speaker Larry Hughes: So let’s talk about the Larry Hughes Basketball Academy Now, you obviously don’t have to do this stuff. So, I would assume that means it’s a passion and something you wanna help the community with. So so why is Larry Hughes, doing this basketball thing? Speaker 3: I wanted to be in the the basketball space, obviously, basketball’s given me a lot, through the years. But then again, I understand that we’re not all gonna be professional basketball players will be be paid to play a sport. So it’s huge that we build young people up, from a character development from a leadership, using basketball as that sport. Mhmm. Speaker Larry Hughes: So Speaker 3: I have, you know, more fun when, you know, the kids come in and, you know, we do a pound, or we do a high five, we look each other in the eye, you know, we say hi, we ask how your day is going, because those are the things that are gonna get them to where they wanna be in life, you know, ultimately. But for me, you know, I use basketball because I know basketball at the back of my hand, you know, It’s like a brain surgeon knows, you go see to have problems with your brain, you go see a brain surgeon. Well, I know basketball just that much. So to come back to Saint Louis and give some of that information out to the young people, whether they have aspirations of being professional basketball player, or they just want to compete and play with their friends in the backyard, everyone has an opportunity to be successful because it’s about who you are on and off the court. It’s not about, you know, basketball again. Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: So there’s obviously a much bigger picture here than just basketball. Right? I know it’s about basketball, but Speaker 3: There is. There is. I mean, I think a tons of parents put their kids in in, you know, programs and organizations that are, athletic, you know, programs that are driven just basically on the sport. And wonder why, you know, our young kids are, you know, not listening at home or not doing the right things in school, because it’s not just about the sport. Right. It’s just not just about to sport, especially as we work with the young kids, from, you know, K through eighth grade is really the sweet spot. Those kids need, you know, as much development, as much conversations, as much mentorship as possible. Speaker Larry Hughes: Right. Speaker 3: So they can be successful. Speaker Larry Hughes: So what’s your philosophy on, in today’s world? You know, Ryan and I talk a lot about this is, you know, we’re bouncing around from whether it’s basketball to baseball soccer to track meet in the list goes on and on. Right? And so, what’s your philosophy on multiple sports and what advice would you have for parents out there? Speaker 3: Well, I think this, in today’s, aged Gilliland families have to pick one sport sooner than ever. I think that that’s just the way it’s gone because of all the sport specific things that go on and just the high level of competition that goes on you know, after youth. But for me and our program, we we encourage multiple sports. You understand, different body movements. You’re around a different group of people. So you’re learning other people. I mean, that’s the most important is that your basketball people are not necessarily your soccer people or your soccer people are not necessarily your football people. So if you’re interacting with all these different groups, not only is we’re we’re talking about learning the different sports and the body movements, but you learn about people, you know, and where they come from and and, you know, what their interests are, why are they in involved in soccer and not basketball or involved in basketball and not football. So I think that that’s, you know, the most important piece to us encouraging our young people to go out and experience different sports. They’re experiencing different, you know, ways of life. Yep. Speaker Larry Hughes: That’s a great perspective. So what what are we doing? Let’s not say what’s Ryan doing wrong? What are parents doing wrong in today’s world? What are our parents? How are we screwing up our kids? Speaker 3: I think we’re in the middle. I think we’re in the middle. I, I think, when I go to games, I have the opportunity to, to be a dad understands and not necessarily be a coach on sidelines. So I’m able to see things, you know, from all different angles. And I think our parents, especially from a competition side in basketball, do a very poor job of supporting their kids during the competition because what I find is that they’re more focused on the coach of either team, whether it’s their team or the other team and the referees. They’re not necessarily focused on what their kid is doing or what the team is doing they’re more concerned about what the referee is doing. So I think that that that hurts the kids because they don’t get that encouragement from the stands. And then after the game, the first thing I said is something about that coach or something about that referee, and not that, Hey, I’m proud of you. You had a great game. You know, we didn’t win this one and we didn’t make this one. We’ll get it next time. You know, I think a lot of the conversation in hear and see a lot of the conversations are about the coach Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Larry Hughes: Yep. — or the referees. It’s always somebody else’s fault. Speaker 3: It’s always someone else’s fault. I think that that’s teaching a bad message. Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: So what, what do you wish you had more time right now that you were able to do more of? Speaker 3: Right now is golf. Right now is golf. I’ve actually picked up the clubs a few years ago, and then I I hurt my back. So I had to shut it down a little bit. But really golf. I’ve been getting out on the driving range and, and, you know, plan to hit the course, sometime in June. But that for me is is something away from what I’m normally doing and and really what I’m comfortable doing. Yeah. Because it’s something new and it’s something different. So, yeah, I wanna have spends more time, you know, playing golf and being out there. Speaker Larry Hughes: Maybe I can help you with that. So, when you look back and so you think about your academy now and and so you get the parents involved, you get the kids involved. What, you know, if I’m a parent, listen, of this, what what makes your academy different that you’re gonna help my son with? Speaker 3: Or daughter? I think it’s the information. It’s the information and it’s the foundation. It’s a lot of the whys and why these kids are doing what they’re doing on the playing field. It’s why you take that first step. It’s how you take that first step. To why you use, you know, your inside hand on defense, when you’re in the passing lane or versus the other hand. So a lot of that information be come from my years in the NBA being around tons of coaches. Tons of information and bringing that information back. Yeah. So with our program, what you’ll get most importantly is the information. And then how you apply that information, how many hours you work, outside of the academy, because we only get them an hour, you know, at night. So it’s what they’re doing outside of the academy, that’s really gonna turn tell the difference. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. That’s big deal. So what risk when you look back at your life are you happy you took? Speaker 3: I think going to Saint Louis University, I mean, I was pushed to go outside of St. Louis. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was I was pushed to go outside of St. Louis. I mean, and it started, you know, very early in high school. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Do you remember that first call? Like, how, like, what grade were you in Speaker 3: I think I was fifteen. Yeah. I I was fifteen. And it’s a little different, obviously, back then. It was, you know, they had these guys called runners, so they kinda. They can get they can get who they needed to get to. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Speaker 3: But it’s, it started very early. But my family being here from Saint Louis and everything I knew and understood was in Saint Louis. I mean, I think that that was a risk that I was willing to take. Yeah. And and obviously it paid off, but a lot of the other programs, you know, push a number of pros out, you know, of their, their universities. But, you know, we made it happen in Saint Louis. I’m definitely happy that, I took that chance. Speaker Larry Hughes: That’s awesome. And then, I guess final questions when you think about that success you’ve had and you think about, the next generation. What what do you hope? You have Larry Hughes junior. Mhmm. Speaker 3: Right? And do Speaker Larry Hughes: you have other do you have other kiddos? Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Two, daughters that are older. Actually, one in, single University. Oh, okay. And the other one is, will be at TCU next year. Speaker Larry Hughes: Oh, awesome. Yeah. I did see that. Yeah. So on Instagram. So what what do you hope that you’re passing on to them What’s your legacy for them? Speaker 3: Hard work, hard work, I’ll be consistent. Give energy and effort to the things that you’re doing, whether that’s in school work or that’s on a playing field. And just be be encouraged, you know, be be encouraged to be successful, be encouraged to help people, be encouraged to motivate, because a lot of things that happen are not necessarily money driven, you know, they’re not necessarily money driven. So be happy with what you’re doing, be passionate in what you’re doing. And like they said, never a a day of work, feel like work. So it it should always be something that you you enjoy doing. Speaker Larry Hughes: So tell us the greatest player you played with, and the greatest player you played again Speaker 3: I would say width would have to be Michael Jordan. You know, I play with Mike in in in DC. Obviously, he wasn’t you know, the black Jesus of of of Speaker Larry Hughes: of old. Right. Speaker 3: But he’s still He’s pretty darn close. He’s he’s he’s still, the greatest basketball player that that that I’ve seen play it and play with. Speaker Larry Hughes: So if somebody asks you, and we can, we can always edit this out if we have to. But if somebody asks you Kobe, LeBron, Michael, you gotta start a team. Larry Hughes gets first pick in the draft. Who’s he picked? Speaker 3: Oh, that’s an easy one. That’s that takes up, point, point one seconds. That’s that’s Michael Jordan. Can I Speaker Larry Hughes: answer before I stop asking? Speaker 3: That’s that’s that’s Michael Jordan. Alright. Speaker Larry Hughes: And why is it? Speaker 3: His his mentality, his, his never give, mentality how hard he worked as understanding of the game. Yep. His and I think really just everything that goes along with mentality, you know, and being successful. Yep. It’s it’s it’s what, you know, what draws me to, to, to, to Mike. Speaker Larry Hughes: I had the privilege of, watching him play, I guess, four I get to go see him play as a bulls player. Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: Many him at a golf tournament one time, and I slip down a hill, and he literally grabs my arm and pulls me back up. He’s You aren’t right, kid? Speaker 3: I’m like, Speaker Larry Hughes: I couldn’t even talk. It was awesome. And he gave me his autograph, so Speaker 3: pretty cool. That’s that’s good. I gotta I have his jersey up in my house. Speaker Larry Hughes: It’s only one of one Speaker 3: of few that I have at the house, and, he’s definitely one of them. Speaker Larry Hughes: So he was the best one you played with. And who was, who was one of the guys to play against? Speaker 3: I would say, you know what, I have, Three. Can I give you three? Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Absolutely. Speaker 3: You got Ellen Iverson, who’s always my matchup because we were good friends and the coaches felt like he wouldn’t go at me as hard as he would go at everybody else. Then there’s, Kobe. Yeah. Who was just an assassin with, you know, you know, the the amount of time he touched the basketball, the amount of times that he was able to shoot the ball and develop a shot, so he was just always tough to guard. And then Tracy McGrady, Tracy Mcgrady, started off a little bit slow. But once he got to Orlando, again, he was always my matchup and, you know, he’s six eight and one of those guys that that’s deadly. So those three guys are the toughest guys that I’ve played in the league. Speaker Larry Hughes: So if you could apply to the the LeBron’s, the Kobe’s, the Tracy McGrady’s, the Larry Hughes’s of the world. What if you could say one thing that you could apply from that that would help our listeners in the business world. What is it? Speaker 3: I think never give up, you know, the attitude is the mindset. Yeah. I think it never give up. Because playing in the NBA, it’s it’s grueling. I mean, it’s it’s hard work to product that you see on the court, you know, on a nightly basis is is the results of a lot of hours of preparation and hard work and dedication to their bodies, to their minds, and just to their craft of of the basketball game. So I think that, you know, in a business space, with that same so that I’ve never given up knowing that you won’t win every day is is very valuable. Because again, it allows you to to move on to the next day. It allows you to to continue to fight, continue to, to, to try to win and be successful. Speaker Larry Hughes: Awesome. So working our listeners find more of more of you. Social media? Speaker 3: Yes. Social media, the real LUs, on on all the platforms. Instagram, Twitter. I think that’s really the only ones that I kind of use. Speaker Larry Hughes: I’m There’s so many of them. Right? Speaker 3: There there’s so many of them. And then the LHVA platform. Our website, we do a great job of getting the information out, and and just being really current and up to date with anything that someone wants to know whether it’s skill development, whether it’s team play, whether it’s character development or leadership, or just, just the opportunities that are involved, with the program. That’s a h b a s t o dot com. You know, that website is is is great. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, Larry, thank you for being here. Speaker 3: Thank you. Speaker Larry Hughes: It’s great. Slide.

On this episode of Circuit of Success, Brett Gilliland interviews Lasse Sorensen, a master chef and entrepreneur. Lasse shares his journey of achieving the American dream, his philosophy of food being love, and his advice for entrepreneurs. He also talks about the importance of strategic thinking and setting goals for the future. Check out his show, Food is Love, on PBS! Circuit of Success Youtube   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the circuit of success podcast. The circuit of success podcast. With your host, Brett. Greg, Brett. Brett Gilliland Visionite Advisors The circuit of success podcast. This title show Welcome to the circuit of success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, I’ve got Lasser Sorensen with me. Lasser, how you doing? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: I’m good. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s good to see you. Yeah. I’ve I was turned on to your story by David Sync, who then told Ryan Barkey, and you know how how it goes. Right? And then I I read this amazing article about your restaurant in Desoto, Illinois. You’ve had it for twenty five years. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Twenty six years. Yeah. So I started my career in California. I moved from Copenhagen in Denmark to California, and I lived in Los Gilliland after ten years out there, I decided I wanted to live in a different place with Lasse people that I was used to from back home. So Southern Illinois actually reminded me somewhat of Denmark’s rolling hills and small farming communities. So it was a good spot, and everybody told me there’s no way you’re gonna make it. People are not gonna appreciate it. All they eat is barbecue and catfish. And, you know, so I I consider that it was a it was a victory that I was there for that many years. Thank you. And, you know, all the people that, you know, were into meat and potatoes, you know, I got him turned from well done to medium rare and So it was it was a long it was it was a long course of training a lot of people in eating what I wanted them to eat. But at the same time, you know, I, you know, I got a lot of friends and out of all these customers are mid over the years. So there’s been a wonderful twenty five years. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So how did Southern Illinois even come up? Like, when you’re in California, you know, people in California don’t know much about Southern Illinois, obviously. So how does that even Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Lasse, so my wife’s parents were in the military and they lived all over the world, but they were originally from Cabondale, Caudeville area. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Got it. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: So when they retired, they retired in Caudeville. Okay. So you know, I was out here to visit Mary James family, Mary James, my wife. And I went on a fishing trip on Crab orchard Lasse, and I love fishing. So I thought it was it was great, and and I I really got enamored with the area, and then we were out one night, and we drove by this old Lasse, and and Mary James brother said, well, this place has been here since nineteen twenty, when it’s a cool Lasse. And he says, you wanna stop, buy for a drink. Yeah. So we went in there, and the owner was in there, and she was the only one that was in there. There was no servers, no nothing. You know, the lights were dim. You can tell that they were in dire straits. And we we got to talk and she got horse, and she wanted to get out of it. So I’m I’m like, okay. So I went back to California, and I said to my wife, what do you think about opening a restaurant in Sterling Illinois? And she said, Are you kidding me? I spent all these years to get out of the Midwest. That’s the last place I wanna live. So Another five years went by, and I worked for corporate America Gilliland, you know, ran thirteen restaurants and had a corner office and a great job. And and And in today, actually, I was thinking, if I would have kept that job, I wouldn’t be retired by now, but neither here nor there, I got bored because I love to do stuff with my hands and I love Cook. So five years went by, and I came out here again, and the restaurant was still for sale. We made him an offer, and They took it and the rest is history. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s amazing. What a cool story. And so you grew up in Denmark, and I read somewhere that your dad was the pastry chef the royal family. Is that Speaker Lasse Sorensen: right? Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. My gosh. So tell us about that. What was what was grown up in Denmark? Denmark like? What’s made you the man you are today? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, I mean, you know, as you get older, I’m fifty seven now. You start thinking back some of the lucky things you have happened to you, you know, as a kid growing up. And the lucky thing I have happened to me is I had the same mom and dad and they were there the entire time when I was young. And they taught me, you know, to be responsible, and I was never you know, I always started with strains and I saw other kids getting stuff and my parents were like, no, you gotta work for it and then we’ll give it to you. Mhmm. And and you know, I realized later on in life that all of those things were just super, super important, you know, and that’s why I could do what I done is because, you know, my childhood was was so good. And then, of course, being in the restaurant family, my siblings in the restaurant family, you know? So as soon as I could walk, you know, I was washing dishes, and then I was helping my dad and in in the kitchen, dipping cakes, and chocolate, and all that stuff. That’s how I got my allowance. And then it you know, after then I had, you know, two or three hours. That was my job. So I could get money to do whatever I wanted to do. So there there was it was a great upbringing. But it was a different time, you know, things were were different, and and my dad, he’s passed away now. He was a great, oddest, meaning that for him being a pastry chef, or as being an artist to express yourself, he would make He made the biggest wedding cake in the world as in the Guinness Booker record, And, you know, and then he made all the waiting cakes for the royal family Gilliland always looking to do new and exciting things in his field. So it was a great it was a great what do you say? It was great for me to see somebody that was that devoted to his craft. But then on the other hand, you know, if you wanted to talk to him about something else, there was nothing to talk about. There He’s not gonna pay Yeah. He he so my mom had to do that other side, but, you know, it was interesting. And I remember when I became an apprentice with him, you know, he would say stuff, and I always thought, man, he’s crazy. I mean, he’s too hot, this is not gonna work. Why does he say that? And when I when I got my first big job in California, and I had fifty people under me in the kitchen, I start saying the same stuff. He said, and I’m like, wow. He was right. And he came over and visit me when I had Tom’s Lasse, and I sat him down one day. And I said, I apologize for not believing what you said, but it just took me twenty years to figure out. Why you said what you said. So it it was That’s great. He was very happy to hear that too. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, I’m sure. It takes us us guys wise up over the years that I’ve had had that conversation with my parents as well. So how do how in the heck do you land a gig with the royal family? Do you know how that happened? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, I mean, so in in in those countries, you see like certain stores that would have the crown over their name And that’s because you’re the best in the country at one specific craft. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. So Speaker Lasse Sorensen: all the different crafts, there is one of them that has that. Wow. Label. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So Yeah. It’s it was him. Yeah. Wow. Good for him. Yeah. And so in nineteen eighty nine is when you moved to America. And then like you said, you came there And so what what have you learned over the years? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And I don’t know if you know you know why I came to America. I don’t. Well, because I was involved in a movie in Denmark called Babette’s Feast, and they won an Academy Award as best foreign picture in nineteen eighty eight. And, it was some very interesting movie, and so the producers of the movie wanted to open a restaurant in Lasse Shenega, in Los Angeles and call it a bet’s feast. And so, we were all geared up to all come over here, and I was over here for anybody else, and then the recession hit Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Okay. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: in eighty nine, and they pulled the plug on it, and everybody went home, and I decided, well, I think I’m gonna checked this place out a little longer, and the rest is history. That’s why I’ve been Speaker Brett Gilliland: here so long. Can we say you’re an Academy Award winner? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: No. She’s like, no. Well, I mean, I had a Speaker Brett Gilliland: hand in it. I lived in a movie. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: I had a hand in it. And and the funny story with that was, you know, it was consider back then the low budget movie. Yeah. And it it I think they made it for like three million dollars. And the first year, they made eighty million You know, when you win an academy award, that’s just a landslide of money. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yes. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: So I was young and then they asked me, how do you wanna get paid? Do you wanna get a percentage of the movie? Or you wanna get paid. And, obviously, I did not make the right choice on that one because we were like, it’s a good movie, but, no, it’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: it’s not It’s not Speaker Lasse Sorensen: going anywhere. So then I did another movie with the producer later on called a girl in the swing where I actually was much more involved in the food than Babbit’s feast, and they asked me the same question if I wanna present it, and I said, yes to that, because I thought, okay, that’s a good decision. And it flopped Speaker Brett Gilliland: So Over two in the movie Speaker Lasse Sorensen: banging, missus. Yeah. And so it but but it’s interesting. But for me, it’s like, that was like the first time that that I was involved in making, you know, motion pictures, and and here I am today with a show So, you know, I kinda understand the whole thing about what you have to do in front of the camera. Yeah. Then when you when you cook, especially, you know, the food has to be done a certain way when it’s for the camera and everything. So it’s I guess all the little things have made me come to this point where I am today. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: So I think that’s a little what I hear there too is awareness. Right? So I I don’t think that’s by happenstance at these little things just happened to get you to where you are today. You know, master chef, I did some I mean, eight day exam, a hundred and thirty hours. In all areas of cooking. Right? To be a master chef, which you are. And and I think that when you put one foot in front of the other, I always say bore consistent is probably what I would assume you’ve done over the years to get you to the level you’re at. Would you agree with that? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah. I I mean, it’s it it never I never thought of of a job like how much money can I make and what’s the hours and all that? I always thought about everything I do in life has been about. What can I learn from it? And, you know, not only cooking, but I’ve done a lot of things other than cooking, which I I can’t explain to you today how I got into that. I, like, fifteen years ago, I started a construction company. And I started building houses, and it came from the fact that I was trying to get people to do work in the restaurant, and they did such a poor job and I’m like, it’s obvious you’re gonna have to do it like this. So, then, I started doing that and I realized I was good at that too, And I kind of ran the construction company like a kitchen. Yeah. I wouldn’t allow them to throw stuff and, you know, they all looked at me like, I was crazy I want everything clean all the time. And before you go home, you clean everything up, where that’s not how they do it. No. So But, you know, you know, I was successful of that, I think, because, you know, I had a different mindset, and I wanted people to get, you know, value and Gilliland I never understood why people would overcharge if you got really good at something, why would you charge an exorbitant amount of money for something because it’s just not right. So that’s kind of how I’ve been thinking, you know, and same thing with food, you know, really when people come to the restaurant, you know, I’m like, you know, I don’t wanna overcharge for anything, but then, on the other hand, you know, it’s all about location, you know. If you’re in Clayton, you can charge a bunch of money, if you’re in Desoto, Illinois, can’t. Right. So you you you gotta be aware of all those little intricate things that you have to make decisions on every single day. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So so when you think about your career, you you don’t just become a master chef and stay there. Right? I think about the business world that I’m in. You’re constantly having to work on your Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Lasse Absolutely. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So how did you stay a student of your craft and and keep going to that next level? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, so when I was when I lived in Copenhagen and I was younger, I was very involved in competitions, and that, you know, I have a competitive side. And so I was at the world championships for pastry chef, and my dad told me that I didn’t train hard enough, so I wouldn’t have a chance, and I one. So that was a wonderful feeling. And then I’ve been on the Colony Olympic team of Denmark a couple of times, and I I saw that the more money the teams have, the better the chances you have of winning. So, that’s kind of how I got out of it because, you know, I realized it was not about your skill level. I mean, if you had a huge sponsor behind you where you can train every day and do all that stuff, so it was unfair. So But then, you know, there is other chefs like me that thought, well, that’s not a good way to do a competition. It’s better if we do like a mystery basket type thing because then everybody’s on the same playing field. So, I I After that whole thing, I I kind of said, well, you know, I need to just hone my skill somewhere else but it was a good experience to learn, you know, to do things faster and better and all that stuff on a competitive level. But it was just, you know, prepping me for other things, I guess. And, you know, the the the greatest thing was, you know, I got to meet some very, very interesting people. I got to meet Paul Bukuz, and I say that today and nobody knows who he is. He was the most famous chef in the world up until recently he passed away. And, you know, he couldn’t pronounce my name, Lasse. He always said, I should open a restaurant called Lasse Fair. Which means let it be. So I always wanted to open a restaurant called Liz Fair, and then when I came to Southern Illinois, my wife told me, If you change the name from Tom’s place to Lasse affair, they’re gonna shoot shotguns through the window. Anarchy over here. So maybe it’s still in the future. But, anyway, he came over here and lo and behold, he came and visited me, so that was a huge honor that and all the friend chefs were very upset that that he didn’t go to just French chefs, but, you know, I had a good rapport with him and and, you know, It doesn’t really mean a lot to a lot of people today, but for me, that was like meeting a culinary God and it was just I mean, just an amazing feeling that somebody actually remembered you had recognized you for your Lasse. So that that was a Speaker Brett Gilliland: So so walk through that if you can. So, like, the peel the onion layer back because the I’m I’m assuming the guy didn’t just call you and say, oh, you’re the greatest in the world. I’m gonna come over and see you in America. Right? So how did that happen? Like, how’s that transpire? And and I’m thinking about the people that are listening to this right now, and they’re maybe they’re in sales or attorney, they’re a financial advisor, whatever they’re doing, but they’re okay. How do I build that deep relationship? How do I get that connection and then grow that relationship? So how did that happen for you? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, I mean, I think, first of all, that you’re devoted to your craft and you you are at a skill level that that only a few will get to buy hot work. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And I think that they recognize that. And then, obviously, you can break it down differently because other people, the Frenchman that didn’t get him to come and visit them. They had another idea why he came to he was it was a champagne brand that that sponsored him. Well, lo and behold the restaurant I was in, we bought more champagne than anybody else. So I’m sure that had something to do with it. And but, you know, I think that He recognized the fact that I went to Boulcoutdoor, which is a competition you have in France, and then he could remember because we had a long conversation when I was down there. One interesting thing when I went to France and saw him, I remember Mittorang was president, and there was, like, three thousand people Everybody was talking, the president walked in, nobody cared, then Paul Bakus walked in, everybody was silent, And then when he said, Bonapatit, everybody sat down in eight. So, that’s kind of like where the respect was back in the day, and you realized you were in the presence of somebody who were big. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Because the president couldn’t get anybody to shut up, but this guy, he was just he had an incredible aura around him that Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Unbelievable. — that So what what’s been your biggest learning? As a lot of business owners listen to this, your biggest takeaways over the years, almost twenty six years as a business owner, because I think there’s difference between being a chef and being a business owner. Right? What have you learned over those years. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, I mean, so the big difference is just like you said, when you’re a business owner and a chef, then you have to make decisions differently as when you work for somebody else. You know, when you work for somebody else, you wanna just show your craft and skill or whatever. But all of a sudden, you’re responsible for employees, taxes, and the well-being of the building you’re in, everything. And it is an enormous task to be a small business owner, an enormous Lasse. And you have to be fluid, constantly fluid because every day something happens. Yeah. Right. And so you you you can’t have a frame of mind that, you know, everything’s gonna be the same all the time. I mean, over the twenty five years, that I’ve been there, things have changed and I just constantly adapt it. Yeah. And, you know, if they raised the taxes, you had to do something to offset cost somewhere else or new regulations, you constantly have to move, and if you’re not interested in doing that, you’re not going to make it. That’s just how it is to be an entrepreneur. Yeah. And I think most entrepreneurs can agree with me that it’s just that I don’t know, some people call it a hustle, but I don’t think it’s really a hustle. It’s just, you have to acquire a skill set where you’re a good You have to be good at not only your craft, but you have to be good at a lot of different Gilliland a lot of chefs fail because they’re not good businessmen. Even though they’re very, very well versed in making food, but that’s not enough. You have to you know, like what I understood when coming to Southern Illinois is that I can’t be serving raw fish on all the plates going out especially not the first ten years, because my customers don’t want that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: So I had to make some adapt adaptions to that, But but, you know, that that that wasn’t really difficult. You know, you just gotta have to find your groove where everything works. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And then even that changes too. People’s opinion on what they should eat has changed dramatically in twenty five years in United States. So, and you have to constantly change everything about your business, so it follows with the trends there is. And, you know, if not, you just get stagnant, and then people Lasse coming — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: because you do the same thing over and over again. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So talk about that. I’m a big believer in your vision. You you have to believe more in your vision than anybody else’s doubt. Right? So when you when you think about I can’t serve fish on my plate for the first ten years, but yet here you are, this master chef, have a grand vision. You have a different thoughts of what people should be eating than we probably normally do. So what role did that play? Where where was the Like, how did you get people to kinda step outside of their comfort zone in Southern Illinois? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, so my vision for the restaurant never happened because I wanted the restaurant to be, you know, the first Michelin Star restaurant. Michelin Star restaurant. I don’t know if people really know that there’s a few restaurants like that, but there is a guide in Europe called the Michelin guide, and they rate the best restaurants and and in Europe, you will drive five or six hours to come to a restaurant just to experience the great cuisine. And I thought, well, you know, I’m two hours from Saint Louis, five hours from Chicago, if if I if I if I try really hard and put my mind and heart to it I can make him come. And I did, you know, I did, but given the economic environment in Illinois, I wasn’t able to, you know, have the finest China and the the best plates and glassware and, you know, an abundance of servers. It it was just not economically viable. Like, that’s where you, that’s where you, you know, that’s what you see in MichelinxStar restaurants. I just never get it there, but I really wanted to, and that was my vision for a long, long time. And then, then, you know, obviously, there comes times in in your tenure in a restaurant where you are in survival mode. Yeah. So sometimes, you know, we we had years where we were in survival mode and then things got better again, but my vision has always been serving the people the best and the freshest ingredients. And then that’s the key to success. And giving them great service, you know, and and I I I didn’t care if you had overalls on or a suit and tie. I will treat everybody the same when they come to my restaurant, and and I thought that Southern Illinois at times, we’re a little bit of a culinary desert, so I wanted to be that little oasis. Yeah. And that was my business Lasse, really. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It makes me think too. I’m I’m thinking about the the vision that may not have happened. Right? Is is is there more in the tank? For you. Right? So if if that was once the vision, does that vision totally change? Or is that and you learn a new vision? Or have you Or is there, like I said, there’s still some something left in the tank that says that that Michelin Star deal. I Speaker Lasse Sorensen: want that. And, you know, like, if somebody came to me and said, hey, we’re a group of millionaires, investors. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And we want we want you to continue, and I could put all the money and effort into doing that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I would love to do that. Yeah. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: I mean, the place has everything it that it takes — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: to make that happen. It just needs an an enormous influx of money. Right. And I would like to do that, but, you know, whether that’s gonna happen or not, I’m not sure. But I still have plenty left in the tank. I just gotta figure out what Speaker Brett Gilliland: you know Kinda gas are we putting in the tank. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Right? I mean, I’m I’m I’m really, you know, like, this has been five days in And I’ve spent I had a company from Denmark. My family was here from Denmark. So I’ve been cooking, and I love to cook. So a friend brought a bread machine. I’ve been baking bread and stuff. I’m I’m still that person that I have to have something to do. You turn it off. Yeah. I I I’m gonna have a hard time turning it off, so I’m hoping that I can use some of that energy for something really positive, and and I love helping other people. Yeah. But the question becomes, can I make a living off of that? That’s what I don’t know. But, you know, like, I’m saying, I I identify as an unemployed right now, I guess. So I’m just gonna have to wait and see. I’ve I’ve gotten six job offers, so my ego is doing great. Right. And but do they all require me to move to big cities? Yeah. And, you know, work in in in in hotels or some big restaurants and stuff. And, you know, I’m I’m I’m a little bit I’m, you know, I’m I’m not really sure what I — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: what I’m gonna do yet. But But Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think that says a lot about you. Right? A lot about your craft and what you’ve done. And and quite frankly, I think as a human being, I thought there’s no way in heck after the last couple weeks you’ve had the number of hours, the the the work that you’ve put in, the emotion you’ve put in. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: When I said, hey, show up July Gilliland let’s do this podcast, and you’re like, yep, I’ll be there. Like, there’s no way in hell this guy’s coming. Right? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: It has been a very, very tumultuous couple of weeks. And my wife’s been trying to talk me out of closing the restaurant or she she was thinking that it’s a failure. And I’m like, what do you mean? It’s it it we’re closing on our terms. And we’ve been there for twenty five years. It just means that, you know, I don’t wanna leave the place where I’m gonna stop doing stuff I don’t wanna do. You know, to accommodate a different generation, casual dining, and all that. And I’m I’m not knocking any of it. I’m just saying that with my skills and my craft, you know, if if I have to step into a new position, it has to be something that excites me. You know, where I can say, Wow, now I maybe be able to do some stuff that I weren’t able to do in Illinois or in Desoto Illinois, and So we just gonna have to wait and see Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: what what happens. Speaker Brett Gilliland: We’ll wait and see. We’ll be watching. Talk about the belief in self. How important is that for being great at your craft, belief in Gilliland then if it’s important, which I believe it is, how how do you improve on that? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: The one thing I think is very important is your mindset. And I’ve always had a positive outlook on stuff. And that I mean, that’s the most important thing. But what do you have to do to have a positive outlook on everything, right? You have to be in good health. You have to, you know, know that, you know, you cannot change other people. I mean, you can only change what’s within an arm’s length. So there are certain things you have to think about as you’re embarking on whatever business adventure you’re in, but the mindset of being positive I think leads to the same mindset that makes you successful, because if you’re not positive, if everything is negative, if you see everything as a strike against you, then, I mean, you’re gonna have a hard time. You know, so when I when I’m dealing with people that that don’t wanna have an education, and they are not interested in betting themself, you know, I’m thinking to myself, well, that’s an opportunity for me, because I wanna do it, and I think I can do it. Of course, I can do it. So, you know, you really have to just be very, very positive. And, you know, really money is really not that important, like as you grow older, you realize that being in good health is is more important and being happy — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: is more important than making a bunch of money. Right. So for me, it’s never been about the money. I just wanted to be able to provide for my Gilliland then, you know, doing some good wine and constantly cook some good food for everybody and make people happy. Everybody’s happy. Yeah. Alright. You know, Speaker Brett Gilliland: it’s funny. So I’ve been in the wealth management business for twenty two years. It’s all I’ve ever done. Right? So I’m around money every day. I talk money every day, and it it’s funny when you say your health and all that is is I compare your health and your wealth together. Right? Because if you have the if you only focus on your health and never focus on any money, Well, your health’s probably gonna go away because you’re super stressed when you’re old and you can’t work and do all those things. Right? And then vice versa, if I only focus on wealth and I don’t focus on my health, Well, guess what? Your wealth’s gonna go down because now you’re spending all this money, you know, because you’re I mean, sorry, you’re spending all your health, so you’re spending your money on your health. Right? And so I think that’s important to know, and and that’s why I do the podcast even though we’re not talking finances here today, it’s help people help people achieve a future greater than their past. We can learn from you. We can take away things from you and take away your thirty plus years of being in this, you know, master chef level. What does it mean to you when you hear the words a future grade in your past? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: I mean, what it means, it means everything in the situation I am in right now. Right? Yeah. You know, that that’s that’s that’s the I’m gonna harvest everything I can of the knowledge I’ve used in the past to create a better future for me now, but I also all the things you just talked about right now is gonna become really important to me because, you know, for the first many years, I didn’t think about retirement. And I thought the restaurant be my retirement. Well, now, I’m sitting on a piece of property when I’m not there. It’s not worth anything. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: So, how am I gonna make up for all of those things, and that’s why, that’s the task for me now is to figure out, well, you know, how I’m gonna get out of this, and then still be able to do what I love to do. So I think if I could do it all over, I would probably had talked to a wealth adviser in the beginning because then I would have had a retirement plan and all that stuff. It was always been the idea. Of course, you know, somebody else is going to come along and buy the restaurant for an exorbitant amount of money, and then I’m going to just retire. Well, I mean, that’s just not what happened. Lasse and and many, many years, you know, I’ve had a lot of people in the finance business every time they had, you know, meetings and stuff in Cabendales, so they all told me the same thing. I mean, like, what are you doing for retirement? All that stuff do you have? Four one k and all like, no. No. No. No. No. The so it is super super important. Yeah. And you know, but on the other hand, I also see people that work themselves to death, and, you know, they they retire and then they were sick for a couple of years. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And then they’re done. That’s right. They’re gone. And I don’t wanna be that person either, so you know, if you’re really smart, you you think about that in early in life, and you You know, I always say to myself, I want to retire at fifty. Well, now I’m fifty seven, and it’s not looking good. But but, you know, and when I say retire, it’s not like I ever wanna retire, I always wanna do stuff, but it’d be nice to, you know, not having that financial stress over you all the Speaker Brett Gilliland: time. Absolutely. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And I think, you know, any restaurateur actually has financial stress just because that’s just part of the job. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Part of the deal. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah. But it’s important to, you know, interact with people that are understand, you know, and and and that’s with all the skills. You always have to be open to new things and realize that you know, you got to listen to people that are good at what they’re doing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And then Lasse for advice, that’s very, very important, and you shouldn’t be you know, you shouldn’t be afraid of asking for advice. You you should be humbled by the fact that somebody are able to give you good advice. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s so key. I wanna just go right past that. I mean, the advice getting advice is huge. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: I mean, I Speaker Brett Gilliland: I remember in still, to this day, I’m going hence I’m trying to learn from you today. Right? I think we have to be humble enough to say, I don’t know the answer to everything. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yep. Speaker Brett Gilliland: But there’s somebody that’s been doing something that you wanna do for thirty and forty years let’s go steal their knowledge. I would say steal shamelessly. Right? Yeah. Take that one idea away from you, apply it to your life, be humble enough to go out and do it. Right? What I wanna try to pace you now is and it’s it’s on your shirt there. Food is love. Yeah. So food is love. This is a passion project for you. Yep. Tell us about that. Five times Emmy nominated. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah. I mean, I I would say I probably spent twenty five percent of my efforts on food is love, and it kinda fell into I I was I was invited out to a show in California, and I was on a big big show out there, and somebody in the Midwest, saw me and thought, well, he would be a great person to portray the food scene in St. Louis. And he called me, and I said, no, I’m not interested. I mean, the last thing I need is anymore work. Right? It sounded like a lot of work, and he was very, very persistent and then we finally came to an agreement, you know, the show that he wanted I didn’t wanna do that, and I he said, well, what’s it gonna take? And I said, well, if I’m doing a show, I want to do a show that you’d be You know, I’m a chef. I don’t watch cooking shows. And I hate to see cooking shows where, you know, a lot of them I made up you know, like, and then you You know, but people want to see aggression in the cuisine, in the kitchen, and people throw them, stuff at each other, and yelling at a child. I mean, it’s so far from reality for me that I’m not interested in anything like that. So my show and, you know, I’m I’m I’m blessed that PBS gave me the opportunity, my show is about breaking down barriers for for, you know, for people that for instance, this is a good example. Korean cuisine was my first restaurant that that I did. And and when people talk about Korean cuisine, they go, oh, that kimchi is terrible. And I was unfamiliar with it too, and and just hearing other people talking about Kimchi, I’m like, yeah, that must be terrible. Right? And so I met a wonderful person, a Korean chef that that iron Saint Louis, and he was the the pilot program, if you will, And the amount of things that I learned from one person following him for three days, I mean, that was really it it opened my eyes and I thought to myself, you know, I’m doing something right here because if I’m a master chef, and I thought I knew everything about cooking. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: I know nothing about cooking. Maybe a little bit. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: But all these different immigrants that comes into this country, and a lot of them are engineers and doctors and stuff, but they can’t work. Like that. Their work ethic is just like mine. They have an incredible work ethic, and their kids are brought up where they have to work in the restaurant after school. And, I mean, it is so in touch with what I think working in a restaurant should be, but when you taste the food of a different country, you know, it just takes you somewhere, it inspires you, it uplifts you, and you want to not only do you want to try Kimchi and you wanna try Korean Korean cuisine, you might even wanna try to go to that country after you see it. So the food is kinda like and that’s why I call it food is love is because once you put something in your mouth and it’s fantastic. In my opinion your heart opens up and you can talk to people that you normally wouldn’t talk to because you start talking about the food And then the conversation can go in another direction, but all of a sudden you have something in common, where today, you know, we are so opposite on everything. So, I was so tired of that whole dynamic of being opposites. I thought to myself, we need something that brings us together. So that’s really the basis for the show is to inspire and uplift communities through food. And I think we’ve done a really, really good job. Like you said, we got five Emmy nominations and I spent as much time on it as I could, but now I have different ideas, and I wanna try some new things on the show. And I think that nothing has changed in the philosophy of the show, but I think by me spending more time on it now, I think some of the things that I want to do, I have time to do now, so that’s I’m going to definitely make time for that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: -Mm Something will be growing. We’ll be sending more of Speaker Lasse Sorensen: that at a high Speaker Brett Gilliland: high level, which is awesome. What what advice so you said you’re fifty seven. What advice would you give the thirty seven year old you? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Talk to a financial adviser. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I promise I didn’t ask you to tell him to say that. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: No. I know. But really, I mean, And, you know, I I I think I could have been, you know, in a much better situation today if I had done that. I mean, I I think when you’re in the height of your career, you don’t think about those things, but I think you really need to lay a good foundation for the future. I think that that’s very important. And then I think also that you need to set yourself some goals on when you stop. And I think that that that, you know, that’s something that I’ve learned after COVID. I I I put a plan in place after COVID where I said to myself, okay, if it gets to this point, then, you know, my tenure is going to stop. And it’s important to recognize the signs be aware of of, okay. Well, now it’s it’s time to go on to the next chapter. And and then you know, I think I also would tell my thirty seven year old self is is not about getting as many cars as you want many boats and RVs and houses, and everything has to be big, big, big, big, big, big, because that has a tremendous impact on on your future too. Yeah. I mean, I’ve wasted, you know, you know, I’m a big Jimmy Buffett fan. He has this song, you know, I made more money that I could buy Miami, but I pissed it all the way. So I I I did some bad things. You know, I bought a bunch of stuff, and and and I realized, you know, you end up paying taxes and insurance and all that stuff, and it just Lasse, you dry, So a lot of those bad decisions I probably shouldn’t have done, but also you gotta remember when you’re in the height of your career, you wanna have fun. So there is also the fun factor in there. So you gotta recognize that, well, you did all that because you had fun doing it, and and every single thing you purchased was a victory or a milestone in your success, and you could do that. But, you know, I would say to my thirty seven year old self Yeah. You know, you probably yeah. It should have popped the brakes a little earlier. But I’ve had such a wonderful time. And, you know, like, America, for me, from being Danish, I mean, I could never have done what I’ve Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: what I’ve done here. So I’ve I’ve lived the American dream. I really have. I mean, I’m And I think that’s why I I can sit here and say that, you know, now I want a smaller house. I I don’t wanna mow ten acres. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And I want something that requires no maintenance. I want to come home, you know, cook a good stew you know, and then sit out on the back porch with a glass of wine and just say, you know, I’m happy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: We’re doing it. Yeah. We’re doing it. Would you would you say thinking is a big part of your deal, you think it a lot? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Thinking? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think as an entrepreneur, you know, you think all the time and I think that that’s how you make it. I mean, that’s my the hardest part physically of being an entrepreneur is that you can’t stop thinking. You’re constantly you know, I I solve all my problems when I’m trying to sleep. Yeah. And, unfortunately, the I I I wish there was a way around that, but it’s cautional. I have the peace around me, and you’re saying, okay, tomorrow, this is happening. How do I prevent that from happening on Lasse those things? So you gotta have a pen and paper next to you, so you don’t forget it the next day, but I’ve come up with some brilliant ideas like in the wee hours. And and, you know, thinking is is what makes you going, and — Yeah. — and and and, you know, you adapt, to whatever they throw at you. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s it’s kind of a weird question. Right? Just say, do you think? I mean, of course, we all think. But I I think where you keep saying the word think a lot. I believe that most people I Speaker Lasse Sorensen: think therefore I am. Speaker Brett Gilliland: They’re think therefore I am, which is a great quote. But I believe that most people don’t slow down enough to think. Right? That it was weird. I gotta do this. I gotta do that. Yeah. I got this email. I got this meeting. I’m a big believer. I’ve been saying it for years, strategic think time. Slow down to speed up. Put an hour and a half on your calendar. I have it on my calendar every week. Hour and a half, I do nothing, but this black journal — Mhmm. — an ink pen and me. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: That’s it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right? And I think. Right? Purpose full time thinking. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And that Speaker Brett Gilliland: that’s why I asked the question because it is for me, it seemed like you are a thinker. Without knowing you really well, that I I think that you do that. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, I mean, and and I think that it like you say, it’s very important So what what I do is I get up in the morning before my three dogs and my wife, and I read the news, but lately, I I have I’ve thought, you know, that I’m wasting so much time looking at Instagram and Facebook and and Twitter and what other people say about the restaurant and what I do and the show and all that. I’m not thing to do myself. And now I watch this thing on my phone that tells you how much time you spend on your device, and it’s scary. It is so scary because like you said, what if I was productive? And I mean, you really don’t need to look at your phone for hours day. It’s an absolute waste. But most of us do, because it’s becoming the most important tool we have. But it takes away from the thinking process that you used to do, it takes away with from the interacting you do with other people, and then I hate when people come to my restaurant, four people they sit down, and then they’re all on their phones, and they’re not talking to each other. Speaker Brett Gilliland: No phone rule. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah, so but but, you know, there’s a lot of things that you can’t change, and this is one of the things that I know. I told my staff five years ago, that they were not allowed to have any cell phones. And I was losing staff, so then I had to, you know, change the rule where they can have a cell Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Because they had all these reasons why they had to have the cell phone. And so, there was just nothing you can do. You just completely lost control over that. But really, I mean you don’t you you can you know look at your phone and your break, but everybody’s so used to that instant thing they have to have it. And and and I’m to blame myself too, you know, like, you know, everybody is a food critic now on on Instagram and Facebook. So you you gotta Every morning, look well, of all the people that was in a restaurant yesterday Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: are they writing anything nice? Are they writing anything bad? And and you just never know. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. This is a shameless plug, but this is the future greater achieving a future greater than your past journal. I created this. It’s now on Amazon. And for me, Everything you’re saying is exactly why I believe in pen and paper. Right? The journaling, the strategic think time. I use this, focus ninety. This is a ninety day Lasse. So I just started, you know, July, August, September — Mhmm. — these ninety days in here. What are my goals? What are my focus ninety? Because to your point, we can start every morning, and then all of a sudden there’s an hour wasted. Right? You know, what the hell just happened. Right? So focus ninety is for the next ninety days, how can I spend the first ninety minutes of every day focus on these three or four or five things? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It may just be, hey, I wanna do fifty push ups a day. Yeah. Right? Get up and do fifty push ups. It be I need to read ten pages. It may need I need to make a call to my loved one or whoever and just tell them thinking about them, you know, things like that. And so that’s why I think it’s so important for us to think journal, write down, dream, and good things can happen because you’re right. These phones are disastrous and can take advantage of our own time. We just let it happen. So So tell us again, food is love. Working listeners find more of that and find more of you. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Lasse, so food is love has now morphed into we have our own YouTube channel called Foods Love TV, and I’m actually doing an exciting project for the first time outside of PBS. I’m shooting a show outside of PBS. And it was a gentleman that came to the restaurant, and he said, well, why don’t you do an episode about Denmark or Danish food? And I’m like, well, you know, I haven’t raised any money for it and you know, I have never really thought about that, but it’s a really good idea. I would love to do it. And he said, well, I’ll fund it. So that’s a great opportunity because now what we’re going to do is we’re going to try to create an episode where I get to do and say whatever I wanna Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Mhmm. — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: do. So it’s gonna be a little different. Yeah. And, yeah, I’m still I’m still not sure what we’re gonna call it, but so the show on PBS’ food is love, and I’m thinking about first, I wanted to call it Foodish love unhinged because I was unhinged, but I thought, no, that’s little little too Lasse. So now I’m thinking, food is love stories. So that’s I I I kinda like that because, obviously, I’m now I’m I my show has been a love letter to Saint Louis. And now I got to write a love letter about my own country. Yeah. And, you know, the food I had when I grew up, And so I’m going back in August, and I’m shooting a show. And it’s in a collaboration with a producer over there that that I actually knew from forty years ago. We hadn’t seen each other for forty years, and and it just happened. And I’m like, you know, we know each other, and he said, Yeah. We he said, I taught I tried to teach you how to play a electric bass when high school And I’m like, really? And I was a chef apprentice at the same time. And he said, I I I he said after a few weeks, I remember thinking to myself, I should tell this man, steak to the cooking. This music stuff is not for you. And but you know, so here we are. Forty years later, we meet in Copenhagen. We talk about this program, and I’m I’m now interacting with some people in my Lasse, so I’m really looking forward to this. This is gonna be an unusual thing for us to do something outside of what we’ve been doing. So what I want to do is create an atmosphere on Food Love TV, where you can not only see the shows there is on PBS, but you also see some of these handpicked episodes that I’ve decided I’m gonna do and I’m working on a couple of other ones. And now we’re going to try to see if we can go out and find funding for some of these other things, but at least we’ll have this episode to tell people see. This is what the show could look like if we did it in your city or your country or so Speaker Brett Gilliland: – Speaker Lasse Sorensen: That’s great. Yeah. I love it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. And where do we find more of you on social media, website, anything like that? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, food is love dot tv, is our website. And, you know, now when we have time to think about it, I’m gonna put up a donate button because it’s very important to get donations for food is love. So I I hope that people would think of that, and I’m planning a couple of fundraisers Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Mhmm. — and Tony Piotosso Caffe Napoli. He is a great support of the show. He was on my show. Episode one, season two, and he opened another restaurant called Napoli C. And on August fourteenth, we’re going to have hundred tickets out there. His two hundred and fifty dollars a person, and they he’s gonna create a huge menu, and, you know, the proceeds go to food is love. So That’ll be the first of many, and then we have Lasse, I’m actually planning on doing one in Alton, Illinois, at state street market, which is the people that own that are originally from Cabendale, so we know each other from there, and we are going to do a fundraiser in Alton. But those details are not settled yet. But, you know, just follow me on Facebook, follow foodislove dot tv on Instagram, I have Instagram. I’m Schiff Lasse, and, you know, all of that stuff is gonna come out. We we have some great things planned that we wanna do and and you know, really, it’s so important that we teach the new generation, I think, the importance of of sitting down dining together and and sharing not only food, but wine, and atmosphere course, that’s love, and that’s the most important thing. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Need more of it. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: We need more of it. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So last question, this is from our friend Abby over here. Your favorite thing cook. You had if you could only cook one thing, what would Speaker Lasse Sorensen: it be? So in my tenure in Los Angeles, I worked at a Hawaiian restaurant and I have this fish that I’m obsessed with. And and I think as a foreigner, an immigrant coming into United States, and then I always wanted to go to Hawaii. So all the names of the fish in in in Hawaii excites me. So my favorite fish is Upaca Paca. K. And I created this dish with a pocket pocket. It has like stewed leeks and sesame seeds, and it has an aniseed blanc I love licorice, licorice is in aniseed, and so that’s my my favorite thing to cook. But being in the location, I’m in here, I have not been able to cook it very often. So one of my ideas for a show I have if I can find the funding is going to Hawaii because there’s also a lot of stuff in Hawaii that intrigues me, and I’m very familiar with Hawaii and food even though I haven’t been there. So that’s on my bucket list of of shows. And if I can get over there and cook some Opaka paka. That’d be great. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I bet Abby could show up and be there at the same time, and she’ll be it’s you at least have one person at the deal. Right? We’re gonna have a ton of people, but Abby’s gonna be there and have some of that. Well, it’s been awesome having you, Chef, and thanks so much for being with us for your success. It was Speaker Lasse Sorensen: a pleasure. It was a pleasure. Thank you.

On this episode of Circuit of Success, Brett Gilliland interviews Olympic gold medalist Dawn Harper. Dawn talks about her journey to success, from her upbringing in East Saint Louis to her travels around the world. She shares how her family, faith, and coaches Nino Fennoy and Bob Kersee helped her to become the champion she is today. Dawn overcame a career-ending injury in high school and persevered to become a world-class athlete. Hear her inspiring story of hard work and dedication, and how she encourages others to go out and execute their goals without second-guessing themselves. https://youtu.be/ThikYqp8P4M   Brett Gilliland: Uh, welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland, and today I’ve got Don Harper Nelson with me. Don, how you doing? Dawn Harper-Nelson: I’m doing pretty good. This beautiful, beautiful morning. It’s Brett Gilliland: awesome to have you here. What people probably can’t see on the cameras I know is uh, so we got some, what, what we got here Dawn Harper-Nelson: in front. We got the good stuff. We got the good stuff. Um, I brought my Olympic medals with me, my World Championship medals, um, and also my Diamond League trophy. And so, yeah, I always say I love to bring them out. I feel like I did not win them just for me. I literally won them for my country, for everyday people. And so I love to have people touch them and just be like, that’s heavy. This one’s big. And it’s really cool to see all the different questions and responses. Well, that’s what you got from us. Exactly. Brett Gilliland: Guys in the office here, like, man, look at that. That’s so cool. So you are a hundred meter hurdle, a hundred meters hurdle. Uh yes. The gold medal in the 2008 Beijing Olympics. Mm-hmm. The silver medal in 2012. London Olympics. The 2017 World Championships. First American hurdler to win the gold medal and then a medal. And the next Olympics. Yes sir. 2022 U [00:01:00] ucla, A hall of fame. Who, what? Six time. This is what I couldn’t believe. Sixth time. I know it’s high school, but six time. Yeah. I h s a state champ. Yes. And one year you didn’t even get to race cuz you blew out your knee. Yeah. Uh, somebody who was on a Wheaties box told me a story about that. We’re gonna talk about it later. Our friend Jackie. Um. And then also Dana Howard. Mm-hmm. I gotta say, you know what’s up to Dana? Absolutely. She introduced the two of us. Absolutely. And so, uh, happy to be here, but if you can Don, what, what has made you the woman you are today? Cause you don’t just wake up and have all these medals in the air. No. So if you can kind of tell Dawn Harper-Nelson: us that, what’s that story? That’s a good question because I always say typically you see in quote unquote the end product. You see me today? Yeah. There’s so much life and so much that went behind that. Oh man. A huge chunk of that is family for me. I am. I am just family. Like if Dawn slash family, like that’s my name, right? Um, growing up, I mean, an example, even when I won the Olympics, the first thing they says, what’s the first thing you wanna do when you go home? And I said, have [00:02:00] Thanksgiving meal at my Aunt Lassie’s house with my family. Like that is just family for me. I had a pretty good, um, upbringing with my parents. Uh, my parents did get divorced, so that obviously plays a toll on you as a kid. But to be honest, my mother was very strong. And you’re still worth it. You’re still, you still have worth, yeah. Um, but then being grounded in church, my faith is huge for me. Um, through all the ups and downs, always knew that God had a plan, has a plan. Um, And then just kind of understanding that you’re going to go through ups and downs, and that’s okay. Yeah. But as long as you learn from them, you always have your family that backs you, uh, just go out there and give, just, just just give it everything you have. And so it’s just such a loaded, but yeah. Do you, Brett Gilliland: and I mean, even anybody can say that, right? Mm-hmm. Given everything you have, obviously you gotta have some God given talents. Absolutely. We were joking about racing in the parking lot, right? Obviously you’re still kicking my butt, but, uh, but, but what was it about you that. Said, okay. I, I may be just a little bit [00:03:00] different than that girl next to me. Mm-hmm. But would you say it’s more physical or more mental? Um, Dawn Harper-Nelson: the mental is, I think was the bigger part of it, right. Physical. You just gotta have some, some in the tank, right? I mean, it’s just got a little bit of genetics that you know there. But I think when I said, give everything you have for me, what that means is I’m not okay with regrets. I’m not okay with saying, well, I could have, oh, that just boils my blood. And so from a kid, I’ve always been like, no. Um, even though I would go to the state meet and be undefeated, my understanding was always on that day. It could be anybody’s day. Yeah. And so you have to leave it all out there. So if I do get beat, I, they were better on that day. It was not because I gave them anything. And, um, The funny part is with that, like I said, it just plays into my life because, just jumping ahead just a little bit, literally Jackie joined a Curie. When I met her, she was very clear in saying, I do not care what. Anyone has done [00:04:00] every single day up until today, on today, you have to beat me. Mm. And so she told me that and I was like, you are so right. And so, you know, that’s just kind of how I feel like I’ve lived in, um, mentally though I, over time I’m a monster. I have built up to be a monster, especially on the track. I truly believe I can take down any giant that would step on that track beside me. I dunno about you Brett Gilliland: two. I believe that. Don’t you just already what she’s saying. So I, I’ve had the pleasure of being around Jackie numerous times and, and one of her favorite, my favorite quotes, she says, I didn’t train Dawn Harper-Nelson: to be second best. No, I listen because who dies every day. Yeah. Because under Bobby Curie, you die. Every, you question life, you’re like, I’m paying Mike Kirsty, her Husbandly your trainer. Absolutely. Her trainer. My, yes, my coach. You’re like, I’m paying him to kill me. Yeah. That’s literally his job is to go home. Stress, worry. What does Dawn need, physically, mentally, to get her on top of that podium and every day he found a way to make you feel like, I thought I was ready, but I’m not ready. And so, yeah, I totally agree with that. Gotta break it down to build it back up. [00:05:00] No, literally. And by the time you, you’re built up Bobby’s standards. No other coaches done waiting, you know, being prepared you to do. No. That’s amazing. Brett Gilliland: Tell us what you’ve learned. Um, I mean, you traveled the world mm-hmm. When I was doing my research. I mean, it, it seems like you’ve been, like, in every country, ever. It feels like it sometimes. And, uh, so what have you learned about just life mm-hmm. About the world? Uh, by traveling through the world, through Dawn Harper-Nelson: sports? Oh my goodness. There’s so much out there. You think, you know, you think you have a way of understanding how life is, and then you step into someone else’s culture. And you’re like, oh, I thought my life was beautiful or I thought these things. It’s like there’s so many things out there. Yeah. And so just not being stuck in your own bubble, being open to accepting and learning from others, um, experimenting on different foods, right? Yeah. I mean, just, just being someone that wants to just absorb things. Um, I think that I’ve, that’s, that’s kind of big for me, just realizing that beauty is everywhere. Yeah. And it’s not just how you’ve defined it. It is. It looks many different Brett Gilliland: ways. [00:06:00] It’s gotta be different, right? I mean, I grew up in a small town. Mm-hmm. You grew up in a small town. What, I mean, what, what would you say coming from East St. Louis? Mm-hmm. And, and there’s so many phenomenal people in East St. Louis that I think the, the, I was just having this conversation with Dana the other night. It’s like, I don’t think he understands. Mm-hmm. You probably don’t understand either, like, The people you’ve grown up Uhhuh to idolized and walked Uhhuh, like, I didn’t grow up with those people. Right. You start named Dana Howard. Yeah. Brian Cox, Marco o’ Harris, Gonzo, Martin, all these people. Right? You Jackie Joyner, ey. And the list goes on and on and on. And, and so what was it about you about East St. Louis and expectations that also Dawn Harper-Nelson: maybe helps? Mm-hmm. That’s exactly right. Expectations. Um, so. In East St. Louis, we say we’re the city of champions. And from the outside so many people are like, you know, it’s ghetto, it’s all these things. Yeah. But within East St. Louis, the adults that were around me looked at us and said, don’t you dare define yourself that way. Um, coach Nino Feno, who was Jackie Joiners coach, high school coach, and also my high school coach and summer track coach. Uh, [00:07:00] The things that he would tell us we could do, the way that he spoke life into us and demanded that we believed in ourselves. Sometimes, I mean, we talk about, to this day, we like, he is just tripping. Like there’s no way. He just, why? He just always like, better, better, better. And you’re like, that was pretty good for today. And it’s like, no, better, better, better. As young women, you gotta go out to the world and you gotta, and it was just like, we get it. I mean, he was always, he was just kind of relentless with it. And so I think that was very helpful when you did finally face. A situation where it was the complete opposite. You’re like, well, I’ve only heard my whole life of you are, you are, you are. You know, instead of Can you, can you? Yeah. And so that, so they weren’t beating Brett Gilliland: you down, telling you all the things you did wrong, man. It was a total opposite. Opposite, which is I think a big note for parents, right? Yes. Now parents, you’ve got two kids. I’ve got four kids. You, they talk about that drive home from the baseball field or the soccer field or whatever, how important that is, right? I think that’s probably a big thing for us to learn is. The I cans. Dawn Harper-Nelson: Absolutely. And then the speaking into them on the days when you see their shoulders are slumped. Right. I [00:08:00] mean, where you’re like, it was a huge defeat. Like one where you, like at first they were like, we got this. And then, because it won’t always be perfect. Yeah. The times when you’re driving home and it’s silent and they’re like, if, if I just, I don’t wanna talk right now. Yeah. And you’re like, okay, I’ll give you your moment, but we’re going to address the elephant in the room of this failure that you feel. And I think just speaking life into, because it’s going to happen again. And when it does, they can fall back on. Man. And even if it, like, they feel like no one else are like my family. Right? Like that’s, my family believes in me. My family never saw when I felt like I was at my worst. My family never saw that part of me. They only saw the greatest. Yeah. So Brett Gilliland: do you think that, um, the, the struggles you’ve had mm-hmm. Because I, so I texted Jackie and I said, Hey, I’m, I’m talking to Don Marrow. And uh, I said, what do you think? Right? Yeah. And so she said, Uh, I paraphrase here, but that you had an injury in high school. Yes. That would’ve ended most people’s careers. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And so I think that was your sophomore year, right? Yep. So your sophomore year of high school won it your freshman year. Mm-hmm. Sophomore year. Obviously you’re thinking you’re gonna win it. Absolutely. You had this [00:09:00] seasoned career ending. Yep. Injury. What did you learn through that struggle? Dawn Harper-Nelson: How bad I wanted it. I learned that, uh, because like you said, it was, the thing was like, we don’t know if you’ll ever run as fast again or if you’ll ever be as good. And for me, I was. It. I shocked and devastated. It’s just not heavy enough words to kind of understand how I felt. Because I begin, I started to begin that believe that I had what it took to go to the next level. And I’m like, you’re telling me that it’s ending here? Um, did they tell you Brett Gilliland: that, that it was gonna end like you’re Dawn Harper-Nelson: done? Yeah. They’re like, it’s, yeah. They’re like, it literally, it’s like this is something that people really don’t like for your sport. They’re not, they don’t come back from Mm. And. I’m like, well, you’re 16 year old. You literally, yes, 16. And what was um, also hard was. That was the, my freshman year in high school was the year that they first merged, um, Lincoln High School in East St. Louis High School. So it was the first time they had, um, was the freshmans that would be, uh, a chance to go to state. So the first time someone could [00:10:00] win four years in a row. Mm-hmm. So, cuz high school is tens, 11, 12, 3 people have done that. No one’s done four. And so when I won my freshman year, year concert talks about that for Brett Gilliland: basketball. Oh really? He did it in Dawn Harper-Nelson: basketball. Yeah. And that’s, Sweet. And so, you know, but you didn’t because they weren’t combined then. Oh. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, huh? No, me neither. No. And so, uh, literally, so my freshman year I broke the state record, uh, a hundred hurdles, three hurdles, and won them both. And it’s like, oh, I’m on my way sophomore year. I’m like, I’m, I’m undefeated. If, if things go well, you’re right on your way. And, uh, when I got the injury, It was just like, I can run through with it, I can still run through this. Right. But you know, the body’s still the body. Yeah. But you’re still human. Yeah. Like as much as you put in all this hard work and uh, like my physical therapist we went up to, he even went to state with me and my family. Yeah. And I’ll never forget I ran the rounds, but they’re like, her leg is not going to make it through. Yeah. Or more of these rounds. Cause I had four races and they made the decision in the back of [00:11:00] the truck that we had the truck up, the, uh, truck hood up. And I’m sitting in the back and they tell my parents she, she can’t run, she’s done. And I cried my eyes out and I’m like, just let me, let me do the a hundred hurdles. So I begged to run the a hundred hurdles and my parents were like, she’s crazy. And I’m looking at the doc like, you know, I can do it. And uh, they let me, And I remember being in the blocks where I couldn’t bend my knee, and when the gun goes off, I’m like, go, girl, go. The way that I lost that race. My mother and father say, you could have sworn that everything was perfect conditions. And so I cried so hard. It was just like, life is over. And that’s, and, and the thing is, is as an adult you can look back and say like, We, we all know that state meet is not the end of the world. Correct. But the problem is, in that moment though, it feels like exactly in that moment. And that’s why I say when we talk to our kids or we talk to just someone going through something, you can’t look at your life and other things going on. It’s for that person in that moment, literally I felt like worth, everything was out the window. [00:12:00] Everything, nothing else mattered because life was over. And like I said, in that moment, it made me realize, If I do walk, run again, I will never take this for granted because it was just a little hiccup. I will never, if I ever get a chance to go to college and run, oh my God, I will never, you know. Um, and I remember the journey of therapy going back. It was, it was almost like you could put on me some rocky music. I was ready. It was long. It was hard. I. Um, but I had a team together like Coach Fanno and my physical therapist, the way that they work together. And my mother bless her little heart, she’s like, whatever they say, do you know, we’re just gonna do, and I was doing extra workouts on my own in our driveway. Yeah. It was. So I tell a lot of parents, you know how they’re like pushing their kids. Yeah. You’ll know if they want it. Mm. You’ll know if they want. It’s exactly where my mind was going. You wanted it? Yeah. I wanted it [00:13:00] bad. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So failure can go one of two ways. Absolutely. When you get, when you get struck with bad news Yep. Or a bad thing and business happens. Yep. And people can either cave Yeah. And go get home in the fetal position. Mm-hmm. Dawn Harper-Nelson: Or you can rise up. Yep. And I, I always say though, take that moment. It, it’s a devastating blow. You know, sometimes people are like, just brush it off and Well, sometimes it’s that hard where you can give yourself a little second cry, be devastated cuz you wanted that, that part you wanted that dream. It didn’t happen, but it’s not over. My thing is don’t stay there. Yeah. Right. Brett Gilliland: So solid. Yeah. Um. If I followed you around then and now and, uh, I’m always, I always love people. That got to your level of just the daily habits? Mm-hmm. What am I seeing? Let, let’s, let’s talk now. Mm-hmm. Cause now we’re retired, right? Yes. We’re done running. Yes. Yes. But what are the daily habits now? But then also if you could think about what were the daily habits when we’re trying to be at the, the peak. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. When for our country, what Dawn Harper-Nelson: redoing. So something that I just feel like my life will forever flow this way. I’m a planner.[00:14:00] Okay. Like a habit is I, my day it has to flow a certain way. I’m not so much of like something else happened, how do I put that into the 10 o’clock hour? But. If I know that I have these things I’m doing the next day, I’ve already thought of, I’m getting up at this time. I eat at this time, I get dressed by this time. I’m getting the kids ready at this time, like my clothes are still laid out the day before, even at track practice, my training partners will laugh at me and they’re like, you match every day. And I’m like, well, Nike gives us gear that matches for every day, right? Instead of like, why am I putting a pink with a blue bottom? It’s like pink and pink, honey. Right? Um, and so that’s kind of how I am with my girls. I’m a planner for them. I plan my husband, he has something to do. I’m like, oh, babe. You know, he’s just like, oh, I didn’t think about that. I’m like, here’s that. Already thought of, um, you know, what you would need for this time. I am. A, I don’t know. I’m just, I’m a point. But I think that’s the biggest thing, because for me, when it comes to, when it came to trying to be on top of the podium, there are so many things that could fall through the cracks because you’re like, oh, I know tomorrow I have no, no, no. [00:15:00] Yeah, but that’s at three, but you have to be at, you know, by the bus at one 30. Yeah. So what are you doing before one 30? Because before you do that, that’ll throw off at three o’clock. So that’s, that’s huge for me. And then it helps you relax and breathe, though, if your day is planned, you’re not like, okay, by three, I gotta, no, no. Yeah. It’s already Brett Gilliland: now, wouldn’t you say that you’ve also, the visuality, you’ve already thought about Dawn Harper-Nelson: it, right? Yeah. Thought and reading it out like, so I’m a, I’m a little, I’m a writer, uh, kind of as well, and so. Like I said, the bus leaves by one 30. Yeah. Then I’ve written out, I woke up at nine, I ate by nine 15, I da da da. Yeah. That’s just how I flowed. I think I Brett Gilliland: always call it in business world, boringly consistent. Okay. And so, you know, you’d see those journals over here. I got all these journals here. Mm-hmm. I mean, for 15 years I’ve written down my life. Yeah. And I think that’s important for us, whether you’re in the business world or the track world Yes. Or whatever, a parent world. Uh, I think we gotta do that because, um, In our minds when you write it down. Mm-hmm. It’s kind of like that brain tattoo, right? Yes. It’s already happening. I agree. And it gets you there. And I think too, to your point of the, [00:16:00] the, even the clothes matching mm-hmm. I think there’s an emotion out of there that takes some, some work. Mm-hmm. Some brain power. Yes. The next morning to even think about it, boom. Put it on. Put it on. Let’s go run. Dawn Harper-Nelson: Totally. I agree. Don’t have to think. Yeah, totally agree. Totally agree. And then before you know it, you’re like, oh, that one top I thought I was gonna wear is dirty and, and this is, Strictly track related. All of a sudden now you’re five minutes, 10 minutes behind. Well, my race sometimes will go off at nine o’clock at night. I cannot show up at 9 0 1. I do not have the luxury of getting to the call room at eight 30. No, when I was supposed to be there at 8 25. Right. Whether on the track at eight 30 and like you miss your race. Yeah. So for me, that’s why it comes down to things need to be laid out because I do not have, my race is 12 seconds long. Yeah. So my brain also operates that way. I don’t have the luxury of being a second off. So I’m Brett Gilliland: gonna grab this one right here. Absolutely. So the camera can see this. So this is a gold medal? Yes. It’s pretty cool to be holding a gold medal. That’s amazing. Uh, so the Beijing Olympics 2008. Mm-hmm. Walk us through that. 12 seconds. Dawn Harper-Nelson: Oh. Oh wow. Oh, okay. You [00:17:00] went there. Uh, that 12 seconds is chaos. It is, um, Beauty. It’s all the things. So literally, Bobby Kirsi told me in the hurdles we all know, you see it’s carnage can happen. Yeah. Someone’s running. Well hit a hurdle. It just, yeah. So he’s like, I need you to run like a horse with blinders on. I do not care what happens to your left or your right. I need you to have blinders on because in each round, someone beside me had tripped up and failed. So he’s like, in this finals, it’s going to once again be carnage. And um, I remember setting my blocks and I’m like, Dawn, you gotta go, Dawn, you have to go, Dawn, you gotta go. And they were in the blocks and like, run is on your mark. And of course that is like when once I get in these blocks, after 12 seconds, I will know my fate. Hm. Like when can you say in 12 seconds, right? You will know your fate and it’s literally all up to you. You’ve done this A million. I’ve been at UCLA and run on that track and run this 12 seconds over and over and [00:18:00] over again. The only thing that will mess this up is me. That is a very heavy weight. That weight Very heavy. That is very heavy, but oh, do I welcome it because I have trained for this moment. Yeah, moment for years and set. They shoot the gun and you da, it is complete. You, are you, I mean, every muscle is flexed, everything. And I go over the first hurdle, second hurdle, and by third or fourth hurdle I see, um, dere London from Jamaica. She, her foot is slightly in front of mine and I say, now I’m supposed to have blinders on. Yeah, but you still feel competition. Yeah, sure. And I say, well, you’re not winning. You need to move. You need to work. Go to work. So that’s what I tell myself. So how fast that brain’s working go to work. And by F five, six, I’m now moving. Now I don’t know what’s going, I can’t see anymore. I’m like, okay, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. When I come off of 10 lean for your life, I lean and by the time I look up to kind of comprehend where I am again. I don’t like everyone is now on the side of me. Yeah. And so I look over and I see Sally [00:19:00] from Australia. She starts screaming and hollering and jumping. Yeah. And I’m like, I got second. I got second because I knew Okay, it wasn’t eight people in front. I’ve watched the video 10 times. So that’s, yeah. And I’m like, okay. I got second. I got second. And now Priscilla LOEs from uh, Canada is screaming. I got third now. I’m got third. Cuz they’re hugging and jumping. Right. Like I got third. Oh. I’m on the podium. I don’t ca I’m on the podium, don’t see where I’m at. I am on the podium. And then my training partner, well, uh, American partner, uh, Daou Cherry comes over. She’s like, no, Dawn. Cause she could tell my reaction was not a first place right. Reaction. And she’s like, no, Dawn, you won. And then that’s when I collapsed in her arms. Yeah. And it’s just like, what do you mean I can’t con I say, what, what, what? Over and over and over again because it is. It’s, it’s unreal. It’s like, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Because what you’re thinking is, is in this moment, the world, there are so many people in this world that whatever your dream is mm-hmm. You want it so bad you have [00:20:00] cried and prayed like, God, I swear, I swear I’ll never, I swear, oh my God, if I, if I, and he thought this little girl from East St. Louis with all that winning would come with, he thought that I could handle that. He said, all of your, all of your wants and desires in this moment, you can have it. I could not comprehend that I was the best in the world and it was true. All of the sacrifices. All of the everything. It was just like, my God, I thank you, my God. I thank you. That’s why I say I will never take it for granted because, and I’m talking about all hopes and dreams not to be on the podium. There are so many people that wanna be a lawyer. Something happened and they couldn’t. I mean, wanted to be married, something happened and they’re not. Yeah. All dream. My, this dream is they say you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than winning the Olympics. You know, that, that to me that that’s mind blowing. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: So now they come, they bring this Yes. And they, uh, you’re [00:21:00] standing on the top of the podium. Mm-hmm. They put this bad boy across your neck and they play our national anthem. Dawn Harper-Nelson: Yep. Tell us about that. Uh, that I will never forget me saying all of my sacrifices not eating Hagen da strawberry ice cream. Oh my goodness. I love that. Ice cream all the times that I didn’t go out or do this and that, and I’m like, it was all worth it. Yeah, because so many times you’re like, oh, was it like, didn’t pan out? It’s like you still learned the lesson, but it was a tough lesson. Yeah. No one wants to learn that lesson. Right. Um, But no, I didn’t have to learn a lesson. I was like, the lesson is, is that yes, sacrifices, absolutely. They do pay off. Um, and I’m thinking they’re playing. The flag is being, I was praying for this moment. The flag is being raised. My country is being honored cuz of my effort. This girl from East St. Louis, the city of Champions Yeah. Has put us on the map. Again. We are the city of champions. It [00:22:00] was, yeah. Yeah, Brett Gilliland: I dunno. Hope if I’ve ever had so many chills in an interview, man, this is amazing. Absolutely amazing. And so, uh, I think October 6th was, Dawn Harper-Nelson: uh, named Don Harper. Nelson Day, wasn’t it? That’s weird too. Yes. I Illinois, Brett Gilliland: October, uh, sixth. Yeah, that’s my son’s birthday. So is it? I’ll have to remember that now. Well, there we go. We’ll celebrate you as well. Um, and so I think when you talk about that, the sacrifice, what I’m always blown away by for Olympic athletes is it’s the time of commitment, right? Yep. And, and, I mean, all athletes, you gotta be in peak performance. Mm-hmm. And all that stuff. Mm-hmm. But I think an Olympic athlete, you only get to perform for how many heats did you have plus the Olympic run. So you have what, three or four heats? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So what is that, 48 seconds? Exactly. Literally. Yeah. Literally. So you put it together. So think about that. Mm-hmm. Four years. Mm-hmm. More than four years of work. Yeah. Right. I know what you’re saying. Really. Yeah. Four years of work. Mm-hmm. For 48 Dawn Harper-Nelson: seconds. Yes. And that’s why I’ve, I heard someone say, you know, when you see people like cross a line, they’ve won the middle. They’re like, why is everyone always crying? And so I’m like, what? Yeah. You don’t [00:23:00] under a life, Lives have been sacrificed. Like all the moments, all the Thanksgivings that I love with my family. I don’t, I didn’t live in Illinois because the best place for me to be would be California to train with Bobby Kersey at ucla. No other place. All family reunions get togethers. My niece being born. Everything you miss everything. That is what the emotion is. It is, I missed everything. You know what I mean? Like, I did not married, not ki No kids, all these things that a woman, oh, I would love to, not yet, not yet. That’s why we lose it at the finish line. And guys too, just all the things that they’ve sacrificed as well. So Brett Gilliland: now let’s, let’s fast forward to today. Okay? And, um, Obviously you’re still in great shape, so, so what are you doing now, uh, to stay mentally and physically in the game? As a mom? Mm-hmm. You’re speaking? Mm-hmm. You’re doing all sorts of stuff now. What’s, what’s the purpose? What’s Dawn Harper-Nelson: the plan today? Oh man. The purpose and the plan is to, it is give back. Like it is to continue to grow. But right now I am enjoying giving back. So a huge [00:24:00] part of what I do is my husband, he’s a high school math teacher, but he’s also the head track coach at Belleville West. So him being the head coach, of course, I’m like, well, I’ll help out a little. And you know, of course I’m not. He’s like, I would never ask you to come every day. But you just find yourself, just show up, falling in love with those raggedy little boys, right? They’re hilarious, they’re crazy. They have all the questions. And then I’m this female. Yeah, because I’m not Olympic champion at first. When you first come in, you’re Mr. Nelson’s wife. The ones now they know me, but the younger ones, it’s like, who is this? They don’t say it, but like, who? Who’s this chick telling me? Right. Like knees up, toes up, may up something, she may know something. Okay. Knees up, toes up. And eventually I’m like, okay. And I’m like, don’t say nothing. I tell ’em about me in a second and then the other boy’s like, do you know? I’m like, shh, don’t tell them. And then I’m like, no, let’s go ahead and warm up. Cause I’m about to bust you up. Like you got all the questions you think I don’t know what I’m talking about. And. So still got it. Awesome. Listen, you got, I have to because every, you still gotta every now and then whoop on some people, right? Because [00:25:00] people wanna erase you and, uh, but no, it is fun because now you get to just all the things that you’ve went through, the times that you cried and you’re like, what is this for God? When will I ever need this lesson? Yeah. I didn’t ask for that. It’s like, oh, this little. Kids over there crying. And I’m like, okay. And then you talk to ’em, you just see the light bulb go off and they’re like, oh, okay. So that, and then, I mean, I’ve been to a bunch of universities now. I do consulting work with universities, talking with to the athletes, and they’re just like, I. Thank you. Like, and I’m like, I never thought that this experience could help someone in the way that it has. Yeah. To, like I said, for them to continue to believe in their dream and to go forward. Um, and then I enjoy, I, I enjoy people. Yeah. That is, I’m a people person. Yeah. So, It’s been really nice. Brett Gilliland: It’s awesome. Yeah, so awesome. What would you go back and tell yourself, if you could go back to maybe the 2000 and so the Olympics was 2008 and 2012, but what would you tell the 2004, 2005 Don Harper Dawn Harper-Nelson: Nelson? Um, [00:26:00] okay. I would tell her that your opinion is the only one that matters. Like, yes, you have your support group. Right. Yeah. But your opinion is the one that matters because in this sport of track and field, it is very much a what have you done for me lately? Yeah. And so what you start to do is warp your, your opinion on, well, this last race. I mean, okay, I did good, but I didn’t do like I won and oh, am I worth this? Am I, because each race, you’re proving yourself over and over. And if a race doesn’t go well, you feel like absolute crap. And so now the next race, you’re like, I gotta prove, what are you proving after you’ve won? Like you sound, you know, not even saying after you’ve won, but after I won the gold, you literally find yourself trying to prove yourself. Yeah. What else do you, so my thing is, is if winning the gold medal doesn’t satisfy people, Yeah. So your opinion, 2004 Dawn, you have won, quote unquote nothing on the standard [00:27:00] that you want. You are still worth it, and your opinion is the only one that matters. Brett Gilliland: I’m writing down a question I’m gonna ask you here in a minute. Mm-hmm. But, um, and, and so that, that does, so there, I made a post yesterday and I said, um, something like your vision, what I believe, right? My vision. Has to be, there has to be more belief mm-hmm. In my vision and what we’re gonna do and what we’re gonna build than anybody else’s doubt. Yeah. Oh, right. Because imagine saying, Hey, um, I’m this little girl from East St. Louis. Mm-hmm. I’m gonna go win the gold medal in Olympics. Oh yeah. Well, I mean, 9 99 outta a hundred people are gonna say you’re crazy. Absolutely right. But your belief has to be greater than their doubt. So how did that play out in your Dawn Harper-Nelson: life for you? Oh man. Uh, how it played out is, there’s a really good example and I love it because there, my uncle was in the barbershop when I went off to U ucla and this guy told him, does not know me. Mm-hmm. He told him, oh, I bet, I bet you money. She’s not gonna make it past her first quarter. Oh boy. And I told my uncle, he will pay you that money. And he had to pay up that money Uhhuh. And so just that example of how does that play out in your [00:28:00] life? People will openly say, yeah, you know, sometimes you deal with like you think and you’ve kind of heard someone tell you, someone said, yeah. It’s like, no, people will openly say this to you of, so what you’s the sports Brett Gilliland: stars, right? The newspapers they Dawn Harper-Nelson: put on social media could every, now everyone has the right to just speak their mind. And now did I read, now it’s on my phone. So it’s right there in your face of you win a race. Like, yeah, but she didn’t do da, da da. She’s not good enough. She can’t do, she won’t be able to do it in a month. She won’t be able to do it next year. Can she all the just in your hand. Yeah. Did you read that stuff? Um, sometimes it did, and it got to me, and that’s why I said your opinion, but it’s how do you not read some of this stuff? Because within that stuff is also your supporters, right? And so you have those messages, but then you have like a hundred of like, oh my God, don’t, you’re so inspiring and thank you so much, blah, blah, blah. And you’re like, you’re trash. Oh gosh. Woo. Like, how did that jump out? It, but it is, but you have to find your, like, okay, how do you let 50 out of 10,000 Yeah. Bother [00:29:00] you? Yeah. Brett Gilliland: So how do you find now, and, and this is the question I wrote down mm-hmm. That I wanted to ask is I, I had a picture that, um, you know, phenomenal major league baseball pitcher for the Cardinals told me one time that the, the adrenaline of coming out of that bullpen. Mm. You got 48,000 people, 50,000 people screaming for you. The game is on the line. Yep. Heart’s popping. Right? Yep. You can’t replace that. No. So now when we’re running in the Olympics, how do you replace the adrenaline? Mm-hmm. Like how do you find that now? Mm-hmm. To not want to crave Dawn Harper-Nelson: more of that. Right. Right. Um, so I think one thing that was helpful, and my husband, thank you for him, Lord, because he was very clear on, do not walk away from this sport until you’re done. Because he said, I cannot fill that void for you. And because he knew when we got married at 28, you know, I was like, oh, like two more years. You know, we’re gonna have kids, we’re gonna have kids. And he’s like, okay. And he just never was like You said two. Yeah. And then like three years and then four years kind of happened and then like five. And I remember just feeling kind of that [00:30:00] weight of like, oh, I told him, but I don’t really wanna bring it back up cuz I’m still having fun. Right. Kind of competing. He never. Question. Never said, Hey there lady. You know, you kind of said, and so I remember I said I was gonna retire in after 17 and then I told him this and I made the whole announcement like I’m gonna retire. And I literally, it was after world championships and I had gotten silver and I was like, I’m not done. And I’m like, how do I say this when I’ve told him I’m gonna move home? Cuz we lived in, oh, he lived in Illinois and I lived in California for first six years of our marriage. Oh wow. So I told him I’m coming home in the fifth year. How do you say actually? Um, and so I remember I was like, babe, so I have, um, I got something I kind of wanna say. And he’s like, I know. And I’m like, no, you don’t. And then he’s like, I know. And I’m like, okay, I, now I gotta say it. Cause he thinks he knows. And I’m like, I kind of wanna keep running. He’s like, I know. And I was like, what? And he’s like, babe, I know you. He’s like, you’re not done. I was like, thank. And I started crying, like, thank you so much for. Making sure that you [00:31:00] and the blessing is I was healthy enough to go until I felt like I was done. And so that that helped when I was ready to walk away my yearning to be someone’s mom. And to be a wife of like a so-called full-time wife, cuz you’re always full-time wife. Right. But to be someone’s mom was a bigger pull on me than that. Um, but I will say being connected to my sport is very, very helpful. Yeah. So I still do commentating. Um, and so when I watch, I still jump on my phone every now and then and record myself watching it. And it is, I get all the feels, I get all the like, but because I still work out, it makes me realize. I don’t need that action anymore cuz I don’t wanna die on the track. Yeah. The way that I had to, I know what it takes to be on that podium. Yeah. That’s just a commitment that I’m not willing to make. And so I think for me, that’s what’s helpful is me understanding that I’m really okay being done. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, that’s good. That’s great. I, I heard too, I read during my research, there was this one kid in high school, boy that you couldn’t beat. Um, and [00:32:00] so now I’d like, have you really, have you seen where this guy’s life has gone? Like, you know anything about Dawn Harper-Nelson: this guy anymore? I think he has the best life out here. It’s my husband. Yes, it was. It’s just the craziest thing that, that like whose story I tell ’em all the time and we are really like affair. Like, I’m like, it sounds crazy cuz people are like, how are they on the inside? We’re really like a fairytale because to be the only girl. And so they put me in with all the boys in eighth grade and for him to be the one that beats me. And I was like, Who is that boy? I was like, I wanna race him. I don’t lose. And he said he was really like, But I’m a boy. Why is she so mad? Because I was, I was like, so when are we racing again? And they’re like, the race is over. I’m like, no, no. That was first round. Um, but no. And so just as time went on, our friendship really grew from that. Yeah. And we never dated until we were 27 years old. Oh, wow. So he was always my cute friend, Alonzo. Um, but we were always friends that held each other accountable. Yeah. Like in high school. So we went to high school together. Always friends that seriously, like if in the hallway he’s [00:33:00] like, you know, you’re supposed to be, and I’m like, dude, like why you always telling me? You know, you’re supposed to be. Yeah. But it was a fun, serious friendship. Yeah. You know? And so it was, it was good. That’s awesome. Yeah. That’s awesome. Brett Gilliland: I love that. I saw that, that he beat you. What’s so weird. Um, last couple questions here. One of the questions I ask all the time for people is fears. Uh, there there’s fears we put in our mind. Mm-hmm. Right. Yes. How many of the fears you put in your mind actually blew up to the magnitude you put ’em in your mind to be? Dawn Harper-Nelson: I have one. Let’s hear it. That is, you gotta be kidding me. It is a picture and it’s like, I used it, I had to do a, um, I did an aha speaker series at the Stifel Theater and, um, And I said, this is perfect. It’s one of those situations once again where I said, when will I ever use this? And I remember thinking, and I’m preparing myself for like, okay, I’m gonna talk to, yeah. You know, this theater, what is going to like, shock them? And I was like, oh God, I got it. Uh, I always just had this fear of falling in a race. Like a major race though. Not like the, the one, yeah. Um, and [00:34:00] so 2008 in Beijing, I won. Now it’s 2015 and I’m the favorite. To win Beijing. That’s where it all came from. Right. Okay. I already know how this goes. And I remember it was just the talk. I felt like it was finally like, they were like, dawns the one. Dawns the one. And, um, Gun goes off and my coach, we have been really working on, we’re gonna stay head down and we’re really running through those first two hurdles. We’re going to drive, we’re moving. And I remember even in practice I would do it, but we have hurdle paths on the hurdle. So if you hit it, it’s, it’s literally foam, so it just knocks it off. It hurts you. You won’t hit the hurdle. So you just know, oh man, I would’ve hit. And I remember sometimes I would kind of peek up because it’s dangerous to run at a hurdle and not. See, see it. Yeah. And, and I’m like, but are you really gonna commit? And I remember standing at the line, I’m like, look, we’re here. I’m like, I’m gonna trust you guys. I’m like, you know, too many times, you know, I have question. It, it time is now, you know, right in the blocks, head down, gun goes off. First [00:35:00] hurdle, smooth, second hurdle, I’m on the ground. Mm. And now everyone, I was gone. Everyone now has passed me and now they’re gone. Yeah, you didn’t catch And I’m the favorite twin. Well, the, you’re on the ground and I remember sitting there and there’s a picture of me, no one else is on the track. And I’m sitting there on the ground and I’m like, I’m just, and there’s an official on the side and he’s like, ma’am, ma’am, now cuz the right, the, the event is going on now it’s the next he’s, and I’m like, and I was like, I’m coming. What just happened? That was the most I, the thing is, I think it’s almost one of those, and it’s like, you know, you don’t know if God works that way, but it’s almost like you need to experience this. No, life is not over because I just felt like if that ever happened, oh my God, I was on the ground, and of course I understood. This was the second time in my life that my husband’s face put in perspective the magnitude of what had happened. And I come around, I’m walking down and I’m just like, [00:36:00] What is going on? And I finally see my husband and his fa the look on his face of like pure shock and just unbelief was, I was like, oh my God, I did fall. I fell. I mean, I’m scraped up. Yeah, but it’s like his face. I messed, like I fell. Yeah. And I remember I still had spikes and everything on, and the media is there, like, okay. Interviews. Interviews. And I’m like, I need a moment. I can’t, you know, keep this together. So I go to the back, I lay on the ground and I just lose it. And he’s taking my spikes off and I’m, I’m mean, I’m just like, I’m putty. Yeah. I am. Complete putty. But the media’s still outside. Like, we’re waiting on you. Whenever you’re ready. When you’re ready. And um, I think it was Joanna, my, one of my old training partners, she came over and she’s like, You got this. Like get it together. Get it together. And I go back out and I, and I do all the interviews and I get done and I like, I just lose it again. And now I have to go to the medical tent cuz I’m jacked up. Yeah. And so they’re like putting, and I’m burning cuz it’s just like, scars, scars, scars. [00:37:00] And it’s just like, it was just the worst situation ever. And so, like you said, that was my fear and that happened. And like I said, sometimes it’s okay. Have your moment. Yeah. But I had a race coming up after that. That was the Diamond League trophy was on the line. So do you carry that to that race? Yeah. Do you carry that? Oh my gosh. The worst can happen. What if it happens again? Well, I went and I won my third one. Brett Gilliland: Mm, love it. So last question for you. Okay. This is, uh, I always tell people, sometimes I want you to give your your locker room. This is your locker room, halftime speech, right. Teams down. Like whatever it is you got right now. You got a, a, a little boy or a little girl that needs to hear a message. Okay. Right. And, and they’re gonna listen to a, uh, Olympic gold medalist. Mm-hmm. Give them their halftime speech. Wow. What do you Dawn Harper-Nelson: tell ’em? Oh man, this is intense. I wanna Oh, and a wrap. No, it’s sweat. It’s okay. No, it’s just, it’s one of those, you, for me, I guess I would, I, like I said, for me, I’m gonna understand the gravity of this [00:38:00] situation, and I’m telling them I. What we have not done. What you have not done is all the hard work. You remember that time you couldn’t go out with your friends. You remember, and I’m just pointing out Yeah. You remember when you couldn’t, you remember. You remember, you remember that time you were nervous. Hmm. All that. I’m like sitting that now. Put that stuff outside, right? Because what we will not do is give them that you will not give, you will not give up on your dream right now. Tomorrow you will be smiling. Tomorrow you will be happy because you went out there and you left it all on the line. What we’re going to do is go in. What we’re going to do is work for this is This is the last sacrifice. Yeah. Right. Go out there and kill. Kill. I’m not here to be soft on my words. Kill. Mm. Brett Gilliland: I’m not here to be soft in my words. No kill. And don’t you think God wants abundance thinking like, like they want you to. He wants you to Dawn Harper-Nelson: think right. Uhhuh. I mean, you said [00:39:00] abundance thinking. Yeah, absolutely. I, I just feel like if it’s not meant to be, it won’t be, because I’m like, well, maybe I shouldn’t. Yeah. I want it all. Yeah. And so if I don’t get it, it’s because I wasn’t supposed to have it. I want it all. So go out there and keep, get So, and it’s funny when I say, you know, soft talking because sometimes, you know, it’s like, oh, is that kind of harsh? No, I say kill. When I say kill, I’m talking about go out there and execute. Yeah. Yeah, everything, whatever sport this is, soccer you. You know when this person makes that move, you know what you’re supposed to do. Yeah. Don’t second guess it, do it. It is second nature. By this point. If we are in this game, you have been here before, that means you deserve to be here. If we had a track meeting, you get to the third hurdle. You know what move you’re supposed to make, don’t you second guess. If you second guess, you’re giving them another inch. We don’t have inches in track and field that we can give. Mm-hmm. Brett Gilliland: It’s pretty badass. I’m fired up. I can run through a brick wall right now. All right. No. Well, uh, Don Harper Nelson, thank you so much for being on the Circuit of Success. Where do our listeners find more of you [00:40:00] and, uh, where can they find you? Dawn Harper-Nelson: Yes, absolutely. So Instagram and um, Twitter is the same d harp. 100 mh. And then Facebook is my name, Dawn Harper Nelson. Awesome. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, thanks so much for being with us today. Of course. Amazing, amazing story. Thank you for bringing all this stuff. Of course. Not every day you get to hold a, you know, Olympic gold medal, so it’s uh, an honor to be able to do that, uh, and your hard work. Dawn Harper-Nelson: Amazing. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. This is awesome.        

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, Brett Gilliland interviews Jeff Eschliman, a veteran of 30 years of combat and corporate experience. Jeff shares his story of how his upbringing and military service shaped his leadership style and how he uses his mindset to overcome fear and anxiety. He also shares his tips on how to create a life of harmony in a chaotic world. https://youtu.be/ltbAofDwM9o Brett Gilliland: [00:00:00] Well, to the circular of success, I host Brett Gil, Gil, and today I’ve got Jeff Esman with me. Jeff, how you doing? Outstanding, sir. Awesome. Well, it’s good to be with you today. Where are you? Where are you calling in from, from again? I forgot to ask you that. At Phoenix. Phoenix. Just got the phone, uh, CL client in. Yes. The desert’s covered today. Don’t I warm? It’s, I bet it is warm, man. It’s crazy, crazy there. I know, but they, but they always say it’s a heat, right? Jeff Eschliman: High heat. It is. Definitely that so Brett Gilliland: is another. Exactly, exactly. Well, you are a guest that I’m excited to have on, on here today. You got, uh, uh, 30 of experience, experience from, uh, combat in Iraq. Uh, all the way corporate board boardroom, you’re a sought laughter X for building and scaling results driven teams, uh, and your leadership style characterized by as bi personal development can, [00:01:00] can see and uh, tenacious work ethic, which I love. Uh, uh, so I’m excited to talk about that. But that, but if we can’t, let’s start with, what I always start with is what’s made you the Manan you are today? No. You don’t just, just go to Iraq in the boardroom and room and all the things mentioned, uh, without a backstory. And so I’d love to hear that. Right. Jeff Eschliman: It, it really starts, you know, from a pretty, I was pretty fortunate to have a great upbringing, folks that had instilled really good core values in me, but I was a little bit of a, a wallflower, uh, before going into the service. And when I went into the service, it was really, really life-changing for, for me. It took, you know, all those fundamentals that I’ve learned from my folks. And it really, it really shaped who I was going to be and then ended up being extremely pivotal through my entire leadership development and career. It, it, [00:02:00] it was really back to my, my father was a house here locally and so I grew up residential home job sites here in the valley and that’s really where. I think those core values came into play with the leadership skills that I learned in the military. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Did you know you wanted to go into the military an early age, or what, what made you join the Milit military? Jeff Eschliman: I, I just referred to it as a calling, so I, I felt something in, in my heart that said I wanted to serve and I, I didn’t wanna do the typical four year stint. And so anything that you were gonna sign up for, at least in the Army in the era when I joined, had to be combat related. And my dad was a a US Marine Vietnam era, even though he didn’t go to Vietnam. And he always told me either go in the Air Force or go in the Navy, cause he’ll teach me something. And so [00:03:00] of course I joined the army. Because it was the two year stent and I figured, you know, I would, I would get what I was expecting out of it. Well, obviously I ended up getting, I ended up getting way more than, you know, what I had bargained for. But that, those experiences, Brett, that that was like the, The forge, right. Of shaping who my, or what my personality and characteristics would. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. You know, I’m always fascinated. I, I love the military. I’m actually, in fact, I, I can look right now from my view, my view here, see Scott Air Force Base, I can’t see it cuz of the trees, but no, right where it’s at. So we, so we have one of the, the biggest, best, best air forces in the country right here, up the road from my office and, um, But, but, but what I’m sitting there with, with, and I’ve talked to military people cause the problem growing up, you know, my kids growing up in a mil military, bay town as well as well, that you get really good friends and then they leave you, [00:04:00] right? They leave you about every third or fourth year. And it’s tough. It’s tough. And so I always, I always joke when I’m military guy or guy, I’m like, I don’t wanna be that friends with you because you’re just leave me again, again in three years. And so we joke around about that. But my point to this is, I, I love the goal military. From what, from what I’ve learned, I, I draw the wisdom that they share with me. From a businesses standpoint is military. There’s, there’s clarity. We know the mission, we know why we’re going there. So there’s clarity. There’s a plan, right? We show up, show up, game plan on what we’re gonna do. We practice a game plan. Plan. Oh, by the way, oh by the way, we game plan again, and then we execute. And, and, and I think you can take that, that from, to your point here, the, you know, from Iraq to combat to, to the boardroom, always. The things I like to draw parallels to is that they’re so clear on where, where they’re going, right? They know, they know the plan. And what if, what if I do a business standpoint, no matter what I did for a living, if I had cl there was a plan, I [00:05:00] practiced, I practiced and I executed it. How would life look, look for me as a business owner. Jeff Eschliman: Absolutely. And, and then I think the piece that I would add to that, that was really pivotal for me was the teamwork piece, right? And so the military gave me two different things. One, it gave me an inner confidence that there was nothing that I couldn’t, that decide that I could accomplish personally and then do it. And especially the physical part of. But it was also mental, right? Because a big part of any physical journey is the mental piece, right? If you’ve ever ran a marathon, anything like that, you know about mile 19, it is no longer physical. It’s, well, it is physical, but it’s mental as well as physical, right? And the other piece would be the teamwork and seeing teams work together in that fashion and at that level. That is another thing that I was able to take [00:06:00] into my corporate life that really made me successful in the very beginning stages. Even being a superintendent out on the job site where I was literally running work before I became an executive, and I was getting all these folks that showed up on the job site to play at a higher level. Yeah. So Brett Gilliland: when you talked mental and. What, what came to my mind when you were talking, talking about that, is fear and, and the, the min is, I can’t imagine being on that airplane lying, knowing I’m gonna war. Right, right. Because you’re in the marathons and I know in a marathon I’m gonna run. I’m, I’ve never ran a marathon, but if I did, I did. I could run, I put my preparation in. But at the end of the day, this not my mentality, mentality, but hey, I could, could stop if things went south, right? But in military, I’m getting dropped, dropped off to a world war. You can’t just be like, oh, sorry guys, not feeling it today. I’m out. Right? I’m going, where are [00:07:00] bombs blowing? There? Are there are guns being fired? Walk us through that mint side for you on that, that plane, and knowing where the hell you’re going. Yeah, and Jeff Eschliman: I’ll, I’ll take it even one further than the plane flying over. It was, I, I drove an armored personnel carrier, so I crossed across the border from Saudi Arabia in Iraq, and that was literally the most terrifying experience I’ve ever had in my life. And my biggest fear heading into that, Brett, was that I was gonna fail. Right. I was worried that I was gonna fail my team. So there was me and three other people on this armor personnel carrier, or the broader team being the United States Army, or the broader team being my country that had sent me over there on a mission. And so what I tell people about the experience, or just this experience in general is I had to be [00:08:00] bigger than I was capable of being individually. Right. And that’s where you get that lift up. When you’re a part of a team or you’re a part of a mission that is well articulated and important, and I’ll tell you how that translates into my life after I got out of the service, and we can go there if you want, but you know, I, I’ve had a period in my life where I wasn’t making very good choices and I had to fix a lot of things. One of the things is, At one point in my life, I was more than a hundred pounds overweight. And the the reason I tell you that is to tell you that I used running to fix as well as my mindset to fix that problem. Huh. So I ran, I don’t know, probably six, seven or eight marathons. I ran one ultra marathon. Wow. And my mindset going into any one of those, Is that I will never, right. Not a, I mean I’m not a big Goggins fan, but you know, like that mindset [00:09:00] about you’re going into a particular situation and it does not matter what your mind tells you that your body is capable of. I’m not gonna stop that. I think that Marathon was boy. But it’s a, it’s a knowing. That’s what I refer to it. That, yeah. Like, I’m not gonna stop. And, and that was a really early seed of that, was that military experience. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So how do you do when you’re, you’re, you’re going Saudi Arabia, Arabia, Iraq border. You’re, you know, you think about, you said you know your team. That’s, that’s with you. You’re in the military, you’re to country. It’s a lot of weight. Right? And so talk to the man listening to this as that’s walking to the boardroom room right now. And they’ve got those fears because of this presentation. They’ve gotta gotta give or they got that client, client or whatever it may be. Like how do you actually get through that though and still, still perform and, and still actually the mission and even you’re scared, [00:10:00] right? Jeff Eschliman: So I would equate what we’re talking about here. I mean, it’s really similar, so, I’ve given a lot of Toastmasters, speeches, speeches or presentations in front of a board, things of that nature. And the number one, I don’t know if it’s the number one, it’s probably in the top three tools that I use, is something that I call, I’m excited, right? Instead of labeling that feeling that I’m having as fear or anxiety or any of the other thing. Any of those other emotions that are. Detrimental, right? If you name it something different, like, I’m excited, and then you go into that opportunity and, and here’s how. I think it’s the same as gratitude, for example, when you put your focus on something outside of you, so if you’re going into that boardroom presentation or you’re going into that meeting with, you’re thinking about the customer. [00:11:00] More than what you’re thinking about you or how am I gonna show up? Or how am I gonna come off? If you can put the focus on the mission of the organization when you’re given the presentation or the value of what you’re gonna be able to help that client with me, that is the most, again, probably top three most powerful things used to. Over overcome those feelings, right? It’s, it’s basically just, Brett Gilliland: well, it’s if you’re focusing on others versus, you know, you can’t focus on yourself. That, that’s where’s where fear and fear and anxiety stress comes in. And then now you are, you know, you know, thinking yourself. You’re not, you’re not on your mission. That’s most important. You know, our mission here is to help people achieve a future greater than past. And going into, into this think out. Oh my gosh. I hope, hope I don’t mess, or I hope I don’t, I don’t do this. Yes, that comes with, comes with experience time. But man, I, I gotta focus on the mission, mission of helping that. So [00:12:00] I’m getting ready, getting ready to set down with Exactly, exactly. Um, I know you’re in, in creating a life of harmony and, and when you hear me say that, what comes, comes to mind? How do we create, create life of harmony with, with the crazy world that we live in today? Notifications and tea and media and Yeah. And all this stuff. How do we do it? Jeff Eschliman: Be intentional. And so what I mean by that is, well, first of all let’s I, for any good conversation in harmony, we’ll start with goofing a little bit on the term work life balance. And I, I started with saying that that was a myth, but where I’ve evolved to is just saying, Like, are we supposed to believe that we’re supposed to put, like, work in one of these? Like think about an old apothecary scale. Are we supposed to put work in one bowl and anything else from our life and the other? And then [00:13:00] somehow they’re supposed to balance out? Like, that’s not how life works. So what part of me, for me is, is these intentional practices that I employ Brett, and I have a, I have for example, what I call my one page plan for. I have everything that is my core values, my core competencies, my purpose, my goals for the year, my goals for the month, live on document that I call my one page plan, and basically this is a direct list from what I use in business to run a successful organization. But you know how life works. Just as soon as you have. Great. Let’s gonna start doing. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, throwing your balls, right, right. Jeff Eschliman: It’s gonna start throwing your curve balls. It’s gonna start throwing your left hooks and maybe sometimes it throws you straight out gut punches. Right? Right. [00:14:00] Think about a global pandemic. And so you have to have, I believe you need to have an effective process in place that I call my day. And so I take a day. And the first half of the day is a wholesale reflection of what happened in the previous month. I just shot a little video here about a week ago that said when I did my day of Zen at the end of May, and I said, Hey, are you the kind of person that says, wow, where did May? Right? Like I never, with a capital never. Say anything like that because I don’t let months sneak up on it, right? And the entire second half of my day is in, is planning out a plan to crush that next month. And so when I finished May, I had 32 things on a list that went well in May and I had six things that I wanna do different, which is code for better [00:15:00] in June. And I built a plan to make that happen. And then the third part of my intentional process I call carpe, right? So obviously Latin for seize the day, but it’s a very intentional process that I use to what I call Brett operationalize what’s on my one page claim and make that come to life today, right? Is may, or pardon me, juneteenth thousand 23, and we’re only going. Yep. What we do every day matters way more than people give it credit for. I’m talking about how well we sleep, how well we eat, how well do we do our nutrition? Are we grateful for what we have? You know, I, I could go on and on. Love that Brett Gilliland: man. It’s so, it’s so, it’s funny how, uh, in line we are. So, I, I, I pulled out here my, you know, one [00:16:00] pager, pager, my plan, you know, my, and I call ’em connected goals for 2023. Three. I wanna be connected, right? I wanna be, I wanna be connected with goals. Goals. It, for me, it’s my after the sixth power, my, my faith, my family, my, my fitness, my firm, my, my finances, right? I list all those goals in the background. You can see ’em here when you, when you’re looking at it. There’s picture’s. Pictures of my back here, right? There’s our, our vision, visionary logo, our future greater in your logo. Like, like these important to me. And every day I keep it in my journal. It’s right here. I pull out, I look, I look at it and I start, I start to light the ones that we’ve done. You know, cause I think that’s important. Right? And, and then I, it’s funny, funny because here’s my, my podcasting journal. It says card harp day dm. Isn’t that funny? And that’s what you, you, uh, mentioned there, so I couldn’t agree more. How, how do will we do that? So what’s that pro process look like for you? Let’s get into detail more on this zenday. Where do you go? How do, how do you do? What’s it look Jeff Eschliman: like? Like, yep. So the tagline for my day is then I [00:17:00] call checking out so you can check in. So first of all, what are you checking out? Basically what you’re checking out of is your day-to-day life. So I’m really good at training people in my life how to treat me, and that includes, you know, spouse and children and business and coworkers and things of that nature. So everybody knows on the day of Zen, they’re not gonna get ahold of. Right. Unless it’s an emergency, you don’t get me. And so you have to break the cycle of what you do every day, day to day routine. So you don’t do this at your home, you don’t do this at your office. I am a big fan of the outside. I love going the places that are bigger than me that are inspirational. I love driving up to the Grand Canyon or Sedona, or just out in the desert to reconnect with. Something bigger and something slower than my day to day life. Yep. And again, I mentioned.[00:18:00] From what I typically tell people that I’m trying to achieve, you know, it seems like a lot, and I don’t, I don’t, none of my clients follow my program chapter and verse. I share what I do. I offer ’em the tools, I walk ’em through. Most of my clients do have a process of zen in their life where they’re taking either a whole day, a half a day, or at a minimum they’re taking, you know, three or four hours at any given. So review through their previous and then build that plan. The other thing, Brett, in addition to just reviewing and reflecting, I like to think of the day of Zen as a chunk of time where I can, I can just focus on something specifically. Cause we all know how this works, right? And life is dealing us changes and that’s what life does. Like I said, just as soon as you have your great one page planned, life’s gonna start throwing you, you know, [00:19:00] curve ball. Yeah. And so the day is great. Time review and reflect on two. One, if life is given me a curve ball, then I mean to reflect. Say that’s a child that’s all of a sudden, you know, struggling in school. For a parent that seems like they’re gonna need a different level of care going forward. In our day-today, life, we don’t really have the white right to. Or you can use the Day of Zen and I do this like throughout the month, I’ll start adding things to my agenda for that day that I wanna think about proactively. Right? And so I started this new, you know, entrepreneurial business venture for myself and I’m, you know, busy in the, the effort of, you know, doing podcasts and with clients, marketing plan and all. But if I don’t carve out [00:20:00] time to intentionally think about specific elements of this, of course that could be any time during the month. How about a time that you have carved out where nobody’s gonna get ahold of you? It’s a perfect time to do that. Brett Gilliland: I love it. I absolutely love it. I do quarterly, um, about my strategic, strategic time and my little retreat for myself. And I’m with you. I go someplace inspiring. We, we don’t have the mountains and everyone’s, and everything you have in the Midwest and in St. Louis. You know, maybe going to Forest Park, you know, beautiful views in there. Maybe go going into the Forin lobby, maybe maybe go in the ton lobby, maybe going on a nice golf course on their back deck deck, and just dreaming and thinking, thinking and just, it’s, it’s me, my bernal and, and thinking. And, and if I could add one thing and, and, and maybe you just or not, but, but. I love at the end of each quarter, I look back at the last 90 days pictures. I’m a, I’m a big pig guy. I write out or I write out all the pictures that I’ve taken, taken and we’re thankful for, for amazing. When you actually, when you actually can physically look at that picture in your, your phone. On, on how that [00:21:00] fills and, and, and it takes off right back to that moment. And, uh, it allows me to think, think about the experiences, but it allows me then that next step is what’s the next 90 days gonna be and what experiences can, can we create family, right? Take some prep work. So, Jeff Eschliman: and a wholeheartedly agreed to the exact same thing. I call that taking stock, right? So I do it in two ways. I, I create a folder. I have a folder for each month of the year and I collect, and, and I’ve been doing this since 2009, where I collect, you know, sometimes it could be a, a, well, here it’s June, right? So it’ll be a Father’s Day card from my kid that’s 12 now a Father’s Day card from when he was three years old, right? Oh. And so I collect things like that that rewarding to me, and so much like those. It’s a place to go back and reflect on the good things that had happened in life, and it, it en, it encourages me to do even [00:22:00] Brett Gilliland: more. Love it. That’s, that’s solid, solid advice right there. Um, how, how important to you as reading? Reading? So, I’m, I’m a big, big reader as in April of six 16. As I was the king of like, Hey, I get a book, somebody hands it to me, read 30 or 40 or 40 pages, and then it kind of just starts to collect dust and then all of a sudden it’s, it’s in a cabinet where, and I, and I said, you know what? Enough is, enough is enough. I’m going to start reading 10 pages a day. So 10 pay pages a day, and as resulting in about 22 to 25 books a year. There’s people that read a whole lot more than that, that I understand that. But for me it’s a, it’s a big deal. And now I’ve kind of created a fake page, uh, for those that like to read and wanna, wanna share and be around like, like-minded people. It’s called 10, 10 pages. Get out on Facebook, join the group. But how important, if, if at all reading to you, you and Weiss, would you have around, have around that Jeff Eschliman: critical. And so I actually used, and I’ll just call it personal development, is the key to that change that I needed to make. I actually referred to now the [00:23:00] year 2008 as a year that I had an awakening, right? Because as I alluded to before, I had a handful of things that weren’t going so well in my life. My career was an example of good thing. My relationship with my kids was a. I was about divorced after, you know, being married to somebody, the wrong person for 17 years and about be, you know, bankrupt and Brett that. I was able to start listening and better information from better people, and most of that came by way of look and audio tapes. And so I started my personal development journey in 2009, and I have never, again, with the capital M, never. Stop learning. And I constantly read, I think it’s the key, like, you know, good leadership, just like reading a good life is [00:24:00] just like the analogy of climbing the mountain because just as soon as you’ve gotten to the top of the mountain, you’re gonna, you’re probably gonna find another mountain, right? Yep. Yep. And way up mountain through engine followed by action, right? Yep. And that there was. You can’t just, you can’t just read the 10 pages, you know, how do you apply those the next day? That’s right. That, that’s another big thing. That, and that, you know, oftentimes when I’m working with my clients, that’s the biggest part of the equation is, again, I use that term when I was talking about my, how do you operationalize what you want? Brett Gilliland: So what’s, it’s the one book if you had to re recommend If, if, if I read it and I said This is terrible, you’d pay me a hundred bucks cuz you know it’s so good. Jeff Eschliman: Well, there’s pro, I have, I have a list of recommended reading that probably has a hundred books on it [00:25:00] and it’s broken down by category. I’ll tell you the one book that I get weigh the most. And I give away a, i, I buy a lot of books, 50 or a hundred at a time, built to give away. Wow. One book is the book that I give to kids that are graduating from high school, kids that are graduating from college, and then I also give them, you know, gift cards, something. But I. It’s what call, it’s what I call the most densely packed 30 minutes of personal development in history. And not that I’ve read everything history, but read most, and it is the most densely packed minutes. Yeah. And here, here’s the way. Read it every or listen to it, right? It’s 32 minutes on on YouTube [00:26:00] every day, every week for a month. Every month for a year. Only 32 minutes long. If that doesn’t change your life. You’re not doing it Brett Gilliland: right. I love it. That is a solid book and I’ve got it in my office and I need to read to read it cause I’ve it in years. And, uh, you’re right, it is, that is a game changer of book. So let’s take a turn here and talk about culture. Um, obviously culture is, is, is important, whether it’s in bus, business, sports, the locker room, it’s really important to have the great culture for a winning team. Um, how, how do you help and what advice would you have for creating a just a top level next Jeff Eschliman: cult culture? Yeah. Cult culture is the people game, right? And whenever I talk about people, I use two words. This is long game and you gotta play small. When I said before, like what [00:27:00] you do on a day to day basis matters, it’s super important, right? And so I’m into the small things I’m into first. You’re allowing people, you know, whether that be a sports team or corporation. Like being very specific and having a high bar is table stakes. I can’t tell you how. Founders that I work with that don’t even have job description for the people they hire, much less a crystal clear vision of who they’re about to put on their team. Next is onboarding. If you do a very thoughtful onboarding, whether that’s hanging in the dirty in the locker with the teammate name on the back of it, Or how you line somebody up with a battle buddy or somebody to be with their first. I had an old boss that used to say, every time they [00:28:00] put somebody in this organization the first week that they’re here, just like back in grade. Right? It, it is, it is almost the same that them up making ’em feel welcome, but not just making them feel welcome, equip them with the tools that they’re going successful in their job. And then once you have team members on your team, whether it be new or the existing, what is your frequent communication and how, you know, are you using ppi? Are you, how often are you getting together with your team communicating the message? Because with culture, just like setting the high bar with people as a leader, Always, and I mean, always should be reinforcing the message of what the vision of the organization is and what our core values and what do we want our customers to get outta this and how do we about each other.[00:29:00] And playing the small game with people, having a feedback loop to constantly give them feedback on their own performance. And how their own performance is weighing into the performance of the overall culture of the company. Those, all of these things are critical if, if you’re, and I was always on the journey for operational excellence, right? Performance in every metric that could be measured. In your group or subset, right? Yeah. And people, people is the name of the game. Like, you’ll win or lose with the people you decide. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well’s. What Starbucks talks about, they’re in people business, not, not the coffee business. Right? Create the experience whether you like ’em or not. They, they’ve, they’ve built a pretty business. Um, we think about that. Uh, everything. You just, and I, I agree. We agree with. How about feedback? How important is it even feedback up to the leader? Leader and, and I say, say that because we’ve [00:30:00] had a, uh, meeting for years now. We call it three three twenty four. We were founded on, on March 25th. That was the day, the day we were found 2014 here at Visionary. And so we got to lit, let we meet my business partner, Tim Ham, and I sat in front of the room. There’s no agenda. There’s no paper, there’s no, there’s no pre messages. It’s been a game changer meeting for us as we go there and we just, the feedback, like my philosophy on that is I don’t want the water cooler talk to, to turn into a much, much bigger deal. So about every, on, every eight we get together with locations, you know, the ones that are close to here or we in person other than others, we, we in the phone and stuff. But how important is that to get feedback from your people, so small things to your, to your place? Small, that smaller things don’t turn into bigger things. Yeah. Jeff Eschliman: You’re of that process you just mentioned getting together almost like, Brett Gilliland: right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Jeff Eschliman: I think again, I’m gonna go, you know, you need to go small. [00:31:00] You need to go small here. When I say small, I mean you as a leader, like how do you keep your ego in check, right? Because how you act every day, how you show up, how you interact with your employees, your team. Like do you, are you the, and you have the parking that’s, you know, closest front door. Or do you give that to the person who works the hardest, you know, each month and you let them have that space and you walk from the outside? Right? Simon Sinek wrote a book called Leaders Eat Last, right? Yep. Which is a book that he wrote after shadowing a general in the military, right? And so these are good core principles, right? If you’re, if you’re much of your own, I hate, or if you’re using too much of your own product, right? And your ego gets too big. You’re not gonna be able to hear the method of the team. Yeah, Brett Gilliland: I like, like that. Very solid. Solid. So [00:32:00] do you do that from a standpoint of, I mean, help mean, help your kind of go-to, um, you say crystal clear Vin, you’ve got your one-to-one pager. How do you articulate that and how often do you do without feeling like, like you’re saying this thing over and over and over a team. So it, Jeff Eschliman: I, I believe it’s, um, you need to have a pattern of structured communication, right? And so the one page plan for me is where that information lives. But then as you mentioned, having like aqua, well maybe you were mentioning your, your course. We used to run a, a plan where we had a quarterly meeting with the entire organization. Right. And so we would do a quarterly leadership retreat where we would assess our quarterly goals and build out the the next quarter’s plan. And so we would use that quarter family business right. We we’re not a family, we’re a business. We wanna [00:33:00] treat each other as much like we can like family, but at the end of the day, it’s a business. So we need to speak frankly, like a good family. We don’t stuff problems. We talk openly if there are problems, and then we celebrate successes, right? And we celebrate milestones. And that’s great on a quarterly basis because if those together, right? Four quarter is like four, four quarter miles. A mile run. And now how do you break it down beyond that? So we would have a, a monthly KPI meeting, so everybody would like call in virtually and we would do a, a KPI meeting. We were testing on all the vital metrics from the organization, and this is the leadership team and senior leaders reporting out to the rest of the group. This was our job to report out on. Now, obviously it was there individual performance that we’re making up, but it’s the leadership team’s job to [00:34:00] supply the metrics and how the team is doing, including the individual feedback, and then you break it down from there. I’m also a big fan. I don’t know if you’ve done daily huddles, but I’m a. And it is super powerful, Brett Gilliland: dead out. We don’t do, we don’t daily huddles, but we certainly huddle it all talk throughout the, the day that, that’s good. Um, last couple questions here. Habits and rituals as I ask you, or if I follow around with a cam camera every day, what are those? No miss items. I’m gonna see the, Jeff is doing day, day in and day. Jeff Eschliman: So I’ll go, I’ll turn to my Carpe Diem and my Franklin planner here, which kinda dates that I’m a little bit of an old school guy, and so I, I’m gonna get up every morning and I’m gonna meditate. I’m gonna turn my coffee pot on, and I’m gonna meditate for 18 minutes. I bump that up [00:35:00] from 2022 to 23. From 1511 burpees every morning. Whether I want to or whether I don’t. It doesn’t matter what I wanna do. I sit, I’m gonna live to, I’m gonna live to at least three years old and doing bur, which I think is one of the best exercises now, not the easiest right? But’s exercises you can do for your, your body. So why 11? Heroes do more. Most people would do 10. Okay. Brett Gilliland: All right. I like, yeah, I love it. Meditation. Are you use meditation app or do you use that in the quiet, quiet room and then breathe? Jeff Eschliman: Quiet room and breathe. I do six minutes where I do follow my breath. I do six minutes where I do a mantra. And then I do six minutes where I call Sending Love. [00:36:00] So I pick, this is from Darren Hardy, so I pick three different people every day and I virtually send them love with my thighs. And then I’m gonna write in my gratitude journal, I’m gonna fill out my carpe and I’m gonna get to get, and at the end of the day, make sure that activity, like right now, I have a goal to make sure I get at least 6,000 steps every day, and so I take stock at the end of the day. I believe. I believe a lot in PM and pm They’re your day that you have the most influence over. Brett Gilliland: Love it. Love it, man. Love that, that, that, uh, that’s what the question, I’m always interested in what great people are doing and, uh, and I, I agree with those things. Uh, last question for you. So fears, a lot of people put fears in our minds. Um, but, but how many fears there’s, or, uh, beliefs, these fears you’ve put in your mind, and how many of them blown up to the mag [00:37:00] magnitude you’ve been your, in your mind to be less than 3%? Yeah. Tell me more. Yeah. Jeff Eschliman: Our brain is really good at protecting us. It’s overly good at being able to protect us. It keeps us, it, it’s, it’s reticular activating, right? Whatever we’re telling ourselves it, and if we don’t tell ourselves something positive or where we’re going, Then we’re gonna listen to the thought that come up naturally and, and our human mechanism is built to keep us safe. Right? It’s, there’s that little part of our brain that still protecting us from a sea tiger, you know, jumping outta the bushes to eat us when we were a caveman, except we’re not caveman anymore, right? And so I, I actually have tool.[00:38:00] And so the percentage of time that you should spend in the past, again, this is Jeff’s idea, is 3%, and think about how much waiting time you have in a day and the time that you should spend in the future is 5%. Spend that on, you should spend that on your vision. You should spend that on planning 5%, the rest of the 92%. What we’re gonna do today, I like Brett Gilliland: it. Clear. Be where, where your feet are at. That’s right. Especially you got clarity around where you’re going. You’ve got your one page pager, you’ve plan you, you show G morning. Spot on. Jeff. Appreciate Jeff Eschliman: it. When I get together with my clients, nine times out of 10, it’s not, show me the great plan. It’s show me how you’re Brett Gilliland: working. Yeah. How you work. You’re working the plan. How you executing Jeff, this has been awesome, my friend. Where, where do we find review and, uh, we’re listeners, uh, and go connect with you [00:39:00] at Jeff Eschliman: Absolutely. The best place to find me is on my website. It’s my name, so I’ll spell it out for you. F F E S C H L I M A n. So jeff eshleman com. And on my website you can take a quick assessment to find out how much harmony you have in your life. I’ve got video to break down these three main tools that I shared with you today, or people can hit me up the chat. Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, Jeff, thanks, thanks so much for on the circuit of it’s, uh, awesome having people like you, you in our world, thank you for serving our country and what and what you did in Iraq. Greatly appreciate it, my friend. You can probably see my American flag right here. Jeff Eschliman: Thank you so much. So,  

On this episode of Circuit of Success, Brett Gilliland interviews Tony Castillo, an elite sports and performance dietitian. They discuss the importance of hydration and electrolytes, the benefits of having snacks that don’t get your hands dirty, and the importance of eating every third hole while golfing. Tune in to learn how to optimize your performance and live your best life! Unlock Your Peak Performance Brett Gilliland: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Circuit of Success. Back again with another great guest. Tony Castillo is with us. Tony, how you doing? Doing great. How are you doing, Brett? I am great, man. It’s, uh, good to be with you. You’re down in Florida, so it’s a little warmer probably. We, we, for some reason we cannot get this warm weather to stick around here, so it’s in the mid fifties to low sixties, I think today. So, but we’ll get there. We’ll get there. Oh yeah. And Tony Castillo: I’m excited. And since we mentioned before this, you went to go watch a spring training game this year, right? Brett Gilliland: I did, I went to see a little, uh, St. Louis Cardinals. We’re not doing so hot right now, though. Tony Castillo: Well, how do you feel about the pitch clock? That’s been the big thing this year, Brett Gilliland: right? It is. You know what, man? I like it. It, it, uh, the game we went to, it went pretty quick and it’s, you know, it’s like my attention span for going three and a half, four hours at a baseball game anymore. Just, you know, doesn’t, doesn’t do it for me. So I like it. I think it’s gonna be good. And it’s funny when you see some of these guys. Get called on it. Right. And they get a strike against him and nothing’s even happened or vice versa, ball. But it, uh, I think it’s neat. I [00:01:00] think it’s great for the game, don’t you? Tony Castillo: Oh, I absolutely loved it. I remember when I was working in ball, a lot of the players had challenges with it. And from a nutrition standpoint is how do we keep them fueled? Cause it’s a lot quicker. And how do we Oh yeah. Stop them from being injured because now you have someone pitching a lot faster than he was and you have someone batting a lot faster than they were previous. Yeah. So it’s really like you have to lock into the game. So some of the challenges we heard about it, but I absolutely love it. It helped make the game go way faster. I went to one with my brother-in-law. And I just said, I think we’re two hours in. He is like, oh my gosh, we’re already through middle of sixth. Brett Gilliland: And I was like, whoa. Yeah, it flies by it. It’s funny. So when we were sitting there, I said, Hey, the ownership of all these teams, they’re gonna have to figure this out because you know they’re gonna wanna sell beer longer because you, it used to be, it was three and a half hours. We get to stop in the seventh inning. Well now the seventh inning, maybe only two hours. Right? So you’re losing an hour of beer sales, which that’s millions of dollars probably by the end of the year. So, It looks like some of the teams are making a change and not waiting until the seventh inning to shut her down anymore. They’re going, they’re going a little longer, but that’s all right. Tony Castillo: Yeah, [00:02:00] I didn’t even think about that, but that’s so true. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, right. They gotta make that money and they gotta pay those salaries. That’s Tony Castillo: right. And you gotta sell the beer. Cause that’s the highest ticket item Brett Gilliland: they got. Exactly. Best 12, $15 you can spend in the whole stadium. So, well listen man, you all elite sports and performance. You’re an elite sport and, uh, performance dietician and, um, and you worked with the Blue Jays, uh, for what, a, a couple years in, in baseball in the University of Florida. Um, and so, uh, again, an elite nutrition expert. You specialize in sports nutrition and, and helping athletes and business leaders all over the country. Uh, really live their best life, is the way I would say it, right, is how to optimize, uh, the things that they’re doing and so we can all be better. So I think our listeners will like that because we’ve had a lot of performance people on here before, but we’re all like-minded, you know, hard charging folks no matter what we do for a living. And so it’s good to see how can we work at our peak performance. So you ready to chat about that? Oh, Tony Castillo: Brett, I am so stoked, especially after listening to a couple years, and I mentioned this prior, you know [00:03:00] what you do with the first 90 minutes of your day like you have in your journal and F to the six power, like those are just things that I talk about with my clients, but I love to hear how some of those things cross paths, right? Because one F you forgot is food. So you might need to change it to f to the seventh Brett Gilliland: power. F to the seventh power. That’s a good point. I guess I put that in my, and shame on me for that. I put that into my fitness type, you know, cuz it just happened to be where, uh, the F worked there. But, but you’re right man. Cuz that’s some really, really important stuff and uh, you know, garbage in, garbage out. Right? Tony Castillo: Absolutely. And we can even just dive right in, right? Talking about garbage and gumming out. We’re talking about supplements, but we’re also talking about the food we put in. And how we’re brought up, right? Because I’m sure you’ve been on the golf course and someone’s grabbing a Gatorade. Do they really need a Gatorade at that time or what should they be having? Right. These are just some of the simple conversations talking about with some of the bus business leaders I’ve worked with, like should they be having something like a, a lower sugar product? Versus that full sugar Gatorade, which is for someone who’s running a marathon. And as much as I love golf, even if you’re walking [00:04:00] and not taking the cart, you probably don’t need that Brett Gilliland: full sugar Gatorade. Yeah, right. That’s a good point. Yeah. You’re not losing that much that you gotta replenish. Right. You know, it’s funny you say, so I, uh, I don’t even where I saw this, but somebody interviewed Tiger Woods and they said, what’s. What’s one piece of advice that you would have for the amateur golfer out there? Right. And I’m thinking he’s gonna say something about the drive or the putting or chipping, whatever it may be. And he said, I would focus, if I could do anything, I would make sure I focus to eat on about every third hole, you know? And so it’s crazy, that little thing I have found that does actually keep me in the game. So I keep, you know, little snacks or orange or whatever it may be in my bag, and I do find that. And so then it also then carried that into the business life. Right. Having those little baby snacks throughout the day, having my water here in this amazing cup that my son made in his ceramics class in high school, cheers to Drew. Oh, that’s awesome. Um, but that stuff matters, right? So, so walk us through if you can, I want to, and we’ll go back in a little bit to what’s helped, uh, make you the [00:05:00] man you are today, which is the way I normally start. But walk us through some of the no miss habits that we need to, to do day in, day out, uh, to live our best life, uh, as business leaders and, and family leaders. Tony Castillo: Well, even going back to what you just mentioned, Brett, what do you eat on the third hole when you are golfing? I’m, I’m curious now. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, so I do like a, uh, like peanut, um, sunflower seed, raisin little, little piece of chocolate mix. I love that stuff. It’s got a little bit of everything, you know, and so I’ll do that. And then, uh, I, I don’t know, they call ’em Cuties at our grocery store. Yep. Like the little, like tangerines or whatever they are. Uh, I’ll carry two or three of those in the bag. Um, so I’ll just do that. I’ll have a couple bags of the, the peanut mix thing, and then I’ll have a couple, 2, 3, 4 cuties throughout the day. And then I have a lot of, uh, a lot of water. Tony Castillo: Oh. Brett, I love it. One of the big things I talk about is hydrate or Hydrate, so we’ll jump into that. But when we’re talking about, let’s just talk about golf and then at work, as you mentioned, but when we’re talking about golf, when I was at the University of Florida, as you know, in Florida, there’s a lot of golf courses. We had a really good golf team [00:06:00] and working with business leaders, golf is something that we talk about. So I always want to find snacks that you don’t get your hands dirty because I don’t know about you, but if you saw Tiger Woods licking his hands on screen, you’d be like, what is Brett Gilliland: he doing? Yeah, that’s a good point. Tony Castillo: Yeah, so I always think of things such as fruit, as you mentioned, those cuties. I also like bananas cuz you can just peel ’em and eat ’em and not get your hands dirty. The same thing’s. Another one with an apple. I also like beef jerky. It’s a nice source of protein to help that muscle building going on, and it’s very easy for you to rip and you can eat it versus having to stick your hand in anything. So just what are things that you can have that are portable, that are not gonna get your hands all sticky and even, I’ve worked with players where they even have sandwiches, pretzels. It really depends on what their goal is. And the reason I say pretzels, because we talk about electrolytes, it’s hot outside and the the four main electrolytes we lose are sodium, potassium, magnesium, and chloride. And it’s in that order. And many sports beverages out there, they start with potassium. One thing I always hear with business leaders is they’re like, well, I’m trying to stay natural, Tony, so I’m gonna drink coconut water. Unfortunately, coconut water’s dehydrating you [00:07:00] really, because it’s full of potassium and it has no sodium. So when we have too much potassium, if you know anyone out there that is taking a. Uh, uh, medication to lower blood pressure. It’s most typically high in potassium because it attaches to that sodium so that you urinate it out. So if you’re someone who drinks coconut water, you definitely want to add sodium. So that means adding salts to it. And I know that sounds a little weird, but it’s the best way to actually stay hydrated. And you didn’t even know how many dieticians I’ve had to say that message to because when you don’t work in that performance side, you don’t understand what happens inside the body. So talking with business leaders, they’re talking all day, they’re moving all day, they’re making moves. They’re breathing and when you breathe out, we’re losing the sodium, potassium, magnesium, and chloride. So we tend to have them have those either low sugar sports drinks or find a way to get those sodium, potassium, magnesium, and chloride in their way to eat. Right? So going back to that golfer, that’s why you have pretzels with salt, right? So I that eating every third hole is something I truly believe in, whether we’re on the field [00:08:00] or on the boardroom. Right. We’re trying to build our business, right? So Brett Gilliland: pretzels are good. Tony Castillo: Oh, it depends on what we’re doing. So pretzels are good cuz they’re that quick source of carbohydrate or energy that gets us through. So if you have a meeting that you want to go to and you’re looking for a quick pick me up, I’d rather you choose that pretzel, which has the salt or the sodium that’ll, yeah. Maintain water inside. So we have that better performance, better mental clarity. Because typically if we are dehydrated, our mental performance drops from anywhere from seven to 10%. And then you want the carbs that’ll keep, keep, give you that energy you need right before that meeting. So I always like having that as a good snack. And then I always like to pair it with protein and as we were just talking about a moment ago, every third hole, a good rule of thumb I like to mention is eating protein every three to four hours. Okay, because there is a muscle building switch you have in your body, Brett, and it’s called mTOR. It’s lowercase m than all capital t o r. And it gets turned on and off every three to four hours. And the way it gets turned on is when you have a palm of protein. So that’s anywhere between 20 to 30 grams of protein, depending on the size of your palm.[00:09:00] Just as a good metric. Yeah. Don’t use your, your wife’s palm. Don’t use one of your four kids’ palms. All right? Yeah. Make sure you use your palm Brett, and you wanna keep that muscle building switch on and what they showed in the studies, Brett. Is that after 16 weeks, the people that ate protein every three to four hours versus having an in unequal protein distribution, which is the standard American diet. So to put it to you this way, let’s say someone has an egg for breakfast. They might have a chicken breast for lunch and then dinner. They might have a nice steak. Well, you have an unequal, unequal protein distribution. So what happens is that muscle building, which never got turned on until the nighttime, versus those that had it, uh, equated throughout the day, they actually built 10% more muscle after 16 weeks. And I know that sounds crazy cuz that sounds like almost a steroid like level. Yeah. But that’s what the research showed. And as much I don’t up and that’s by, that’s by doing what? Brett Gilliland: Eating. That’s by doing three to four hours. Okay. Okay. I thought you meant that. But the morning, noon and night, you’re saying iss just, there’s too much gap in between those. Is that, is that true Gap Tony Castillo: and quantity because one egg doesn’t have anywhere near 20 to 30 grams of [00:10:00] protein. So what do you Brett Gilliland: get if you’re, what do you, what are you eating in? Uh, let’s say it’s my three hours is up right now. Which it probably would be close to that. Um, What, what should I be eating if I don’t have time to make an egg or, you know, I don’t have a kitchen here in my office. Right? Or our studio here. So what, what, what’s a, what’s a form of stuff that I can have laying around the office to get my 20 to 30 grams. Tony Castillo: Love this. Are you a sweet or savory snacker, Brett? Ooh, Brett Gilliland: boy. I don’t know. I like a piece of chocolate with caramel. Tony Castillo: Oh, okay. Do you like, there’s two things that come up in my head immediately, but do you happen to like Greek yogurt. No, Brett Gilliland: no, sorry. Greek yogurt fans. I do not. Tony Castillo: I’ll toss it out the window. There’s this drink. It is called Core Power. Uh, you can get them at most stores and you can keep that in your office. And the reason I like, it’s because it is not a supplement. It is actually made for milk and it’s shelf stable, and it’s what we used at the pros. Now, why am I shearing away from [00:11:00] supplements? Well, when we talk about a supplement, there’s two things I really want us to think about. Is it third party certified? Which, so third party certification, so there’s two websites. Yep. One is called NSF for Sport and the other one is Informed Choice. So that tells us what’s on the label is in the bottle. And what’s in the bottle has no banned substances got, so there was someone I was working with, we sent a sleep supplement to this third party certification. And Brett, what do you think they found in the sleep Brett Gilliland: supplement? Probably something that would allow me not to play Major League baseball. Tony Castillo: Methamphetamines. So I don’t know what your experience is with methamphetamines. Hopefully none. Brett Gilliland: None. But, uh, none. None. Tony Castillo: Yeah. It keeps you awake. So think about that. Why would you take a sleep supplement to keep you awake anyways, back to the snack? I’d recommend. That’s why I wanna stay away from those supplemental drinks, which we see at the grocery store, because those protein powders that they put in there could have a banned substance. And yes, you’re not getting tested, but everyone I work with, I like to treat them like that elite athlete, and I don’t want them taking anything. That might have things that they’ve also found as cocaine, right? Again, [00:12:00] I don’t want you having that in your system because you don’t need it. You’re not using it for that tool, whatever that may be. So we wanna stay away if it’s not NSF or sport certified or informed choice. So snacks that core power, it actually comes from milk and it’s shelf stable, meaning that you can just have it at room temperature. However, I definitely recommend you chill it cause it just tastes a little bit better. Yeah. So that is, what are some of your go-to to, or if you like any protein bars, Brett Gilliland: Dude, I, I literally don’t do anything like that. I mean, I go, I, uh, and this is one of the things I wanna chat about today too, is you can, you can, I could have 10 people like you on there or, or go to Google and ask 10 different questions, right? And I’m gonna get 10 different answers. And that’s why I was looking forward to our conversation, because this is what you do for a living. All day, every day. But it, you know, and I didn’t do this because of any reason, but I’ve always been like, what they call an intermittent fasting. I didn’t, I just did it cuz of nerves as a, you know, growing up. But now it just has become a habit. But, so I’ll eat dinner at, you know, whenever I can before or after a game for my kids, and then I won’t eat again until lunchtime. And then, so again, [00:13:00] that’s, from what I hear, I’m not getting them every three to four hours. My protein, uh, and maybe, maybe I should and I’ll hit the golf ball a little bit further, but, um, so I don’t have those snacks, man. I’m this boring guy that goes, and I’ll have, you know, like, uh, and if I do have my, my morning breakfast, it’ll be like some wheatgrass that I get from a, from a guy that I know, right? Some wheatgrass or, or a green juice. And then that’s it. And then I’ll eat my lunch and then, uh, water throughout the day. And then I’ll probably have one of those, the bags of nuts, raisins, and chocolates on the, on the way I leave the office. I usually eat it on the way home. And then I’ll eat dinner tonight, and then that’s it. Like, I’m not a snacker. I don’t set around and eat power bars all day. I don’t eat snacks. I don’t, you know, sit down and grab some chips. I just, I don’t do that. And, and so, um, I don’t know why, but I just, I just don’t. Tony Castillo: Well, Brett, you sound like many of the people that I’ve worked with where they come to me and they fast, and the research on fasting is this, it can improve testosterone if you do it once a week. If you do it every day for long periods of [00:14:00] time, it has actually been shown to decrease testosterone levels in the long term. Hmm. So if we’re looking for more mental clarity, the first thing you do is eat more. And then a very simple analogy, I love using Brett. Let’s say you’re gonna drive down and visit me. You’re we’re gonna I, I’m gonna invite you to a spring training game and I’m gonna give you the options of two cars. Brett, the first car is completely full of gas and I give you a key to it. The second one is completely empty, and I still give you a key, but you have to push it down. Which one are you taking to visit me? Yeah, the gas. The gas, right? So, so many people do this fasting because they think it’s just easier cause you don’t have time. My goal is to help you find what are some of those quick and easy hits that you can eat if you do have time, right? And when you don’t have time. So you could easily do, let’s say, oatmeal with some sort of protein powder in it. That’s a great way to get carbs and a great way to get protein, right? That’s just an easy, simple way. And I promise you, Brett, it doesn’t take more than two minutes. Right. I’ve even done a challenge where I lined up a bunch of baseball players and I had to make PB and j’s, and when I made it a [00:15:00] competition, they made 25 PB and JS in a minute. So I’m pretty sure everyone has a couple seconds to make. That’s right. Worse. A PB and j. Brett Gilliland: I like it. That’s true. Tony Castillo: Absolutely. And we always go fault. Like, oh, we don’t have enough time. Well, what are we prioritizing? Are you prioritizing being your best self? Are you prioritizing being the best self, not only for your family? But for the people you work with. So many, so many entrepreneurs I’ve worked with and small business owners, one of the first things they tell me two to three weeks in is that their wife says, you’re not grumpy anymore. And I’m like, what do you mean you’re not grumpy anymore? Well, it’s because they start eating and they didn’t notice this, but their spouses notice it, that they come home grumpy cuz they just want dinner. Uh, they haven’t had anything to eat all day. And then they go do, as you said, their kids’ events. Imagine you’ve just taken an empty car, you filled it up, once worked, and then you’ve gone to see your kids’ event where you’ve literally had no more fuel. So now you’re pushing your car, pushing your body, and things will make you crankier quicker and you don’t even notice it. And people think that’s just dad [00:16:00] normally versus what’s dad look like when he feels his best. It’s not just looking your best, which is part of it too, Brett, I’m not gonna lie here and say aesthetics are not a piece of this, right? But what happens when you feel your best. Sometimes we lie to ourselves because we don’t have enough time and we hear that fastening works. I’m here to tell you fasting can work in the short term, but it’s not a long-term nor sustainable approach to being your best self per research. Now change. Brett. I’m open to it. I’m open if for research comes out. Brett Gilliland: But it does make sense. And you hear that, you know, breakfast is the most important meal of the day. And then you’ve got all the people that research it, say, fasting’s the best thing you can do since sliced bread, you know? And so, so again, you got the, you called it, uh, core power drink. What else am I putting around the office? Sitting around in my, you know, my desk or something like that, my table, so I can, uh, I can get my protein in, but I don’t have time to make the eggs, the chicken, and the steak. Tony Castillo: So if you don’t have time to make eggs, they sell hard-boiled eggs that you can keep in your fridge and you can swap em out. Yeah, [00:17:00] I’m not doing Brett Gilliland: that either. Sorry. Tony Castillo: Hey, no. I’d rather you be honest with me, Brett. Right, right. I love problem Brett Gilliland: solving, and I shouldn’t say our listeners will probably do that, but for me to, to, to buy hard-boiled eggs in a, in a grocery or a gas station, sounds disgusting. Tony Castillo: Well, what about beef jerky? That’s always one of my favorite. I, I’ll Brett Gilliland: do that. I can buy some beef jerky. Beef Tony Castillo: jerky is probably one of my easiest ones to keep at the office cause it doesn’t go bad. Some other options, which I bet you don’t like, but I’m gonna say it anyways. Cottage cheese. Okay. Nope. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, that’s, Hey, Brett, I’m telling you my dad loves cottage cheese, but I, yeah, no, not me. Tony Castillo: I’m with you a hundred percent on that one. That’s a tough one. Uh, I even, but I like to give the options. Yes. Not, not something to think about. Another one is tuna packets. Again, a lot of people don’t like that because the smell. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I’m striking out here. Tony, I’m sorry. Tony Castillo: Hey, don’t strike out. This is just an area of opportunity that we can look at. What are some other options. Now, one thing, um, I meant to ask you, [00:18:00] so do you use any sort of supplements? I do Brett Gilliland: not. I, I do, um, a vitamin D, uh, you know, like a pill for vitamin D. My blood works as I’m a little low on vitamin D. So I do that. I do some fish oil and uh, I do a multivitamin. That’s it. I do that and then I wake up every day and I eat like some sort of chicken and french fries. Terrible. I know. Try throwing a salad most of the time, but it’s usually today. I, I went to this place here in town. I won’t name the name in case we go. And say how bad this is for my diet. But I had a, a, uh, buffalo chicken sandwich and an order of fries, you know, yesterday, yesterday I had a burger and a salad. Tony Castillo: Yep. Well, I love that decision you made yesterday, and I love the decision you made today because we also have to go back, Brett, that sometimes what we grew up eating, we’ve been told we can’t have. And a lot of people see that as their culture being an obstacle versus it being an asset. This is where the foods you love, how do we fit [00:19:00] them in and keep them, because that’s how we make the sustainable diet plan, right? Without that, nothing will work. You will keep going to the drawing board because we’re not figuring out a plan that works for you. We’re figuring out a plan that just works for someone else. So that’s one thing I’ve seen that’s been a big barrier. Now back to the snack dilemma. Yeah. Because I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna let you go unless we, we come up with at least three snacks. So one, we said the core power, that was you. Yep. Beef Jerky was the second one. That’s right. Trail mix. I like, but here’s, uh, people say peanuts and peanut butter are full of protein, but you would need eight tablespoons of peanut butter to get the amount of protein you need to make a true impact on that muscle building. Wow. Which we were talking about earlier. Now, Brett, I’m, I’m sure it’s a lot of peanut butter. That’s a lot of peanut butter. So for sure, we definitely want you to do have those two options. Now, here’s some other ones on here. I’m gonna, I’m gonna throw them out. Uh, deli meat. Yeah. String cheese? No. No. Alright. Hey, see, [00:20:00] I, I gotta throw ’em out, right? Um. And then the rest are the ones I mentioned earlier. Those are the ones that come off the top of my head that I have on this list. So, hey, Brett Gilliland: deli, meat, pork, but this’s good. Most people listening to this are probably not as picky as I am, so they’ve got something already. They’ve got a nugget. And, but I, I do think having a good source of some, uh, you know, almonds, whatever it may be, pistachios, things like that, uh, it’s, it’s probably better for you than not eating. Uh, I would say I agree. And then, but the, the, uh, the beef jerky and the, and the, uh, core power I can get behind and I’m a boring. Guys so I can just, you know, edit, copy, edit, paste every day. I, I can eat the same thing all the time. Doesn’t ba doesn’t bother me. Brett, Tony Castillo: you sound like a lot of the people I work with. You’re not picky. You just know what you like and that’s important, right? Yeah. And being able to have it, cuz you said you have another location down here. So what I always like to tell people I work with order a case and just leave it at that office. That way there is no excuse, right? Yeah. It’s there. And as I said, they’re sha shelf stable, meaning that they can get warm. We want them cold. But that way when you get to that office, you can just throw ’em in that fridge and if not, [00:21:00] you have some under, under your desk that you can just, yeah, pop in. So do you Brett Gilliland: think the beef jerky you see, like at grocery stores, like is that not even grocery stores, I’m sorry. But like at a gas station, you know, you see like there’s a whole wall, like sidewall of beef, jerkies. Like are those healthy? Are those, you know, I always wonder like what in the hell do they actually put in all that stuff? So then it like makes me not eat it. Cause I’m thinking I’m probably getting worse stuff. Even though the package says real big, you know, 40 grams of protein or whatever. And so, uh, we go there, is there a website for find out what beef jerky is safe or what do you recommend? What kind? Tony Castillo: I like the 1 37 rule. So the 1 37 rule is when you have one ounce of protein, you want it to be under three grams of fat and over seven grams of protein. Brett Gilliland: Okay. So, so I’m one ounce of protein, three grams of Tony Castillo: what? Under three grams of fat and over seven grams of protein. So we, we have one ounce of beef or beef jerky. You wanna make sure it has under three grams of fat and over seven grams of protein.[00:22:00] Brett Gilliland: All right, so ev, for every ounce of protein, it needs to have seven grams of protein. Of protein, yes. And then less than three grams of fat. Tony Castillo: Correct. So if you look at a beef jerky, it should say that right on the back cuz they label it by ounce or two ounce. So if it’s a two ounce serving, then that means it needs to be under six and under 14 and above 14. Okay. Yeah, very simple math. Brett Gilliland: I like that though. See those are good nuggets to take away that when I’m in the grocery store, our listeners in the grocery store, they can say, okay, the 1 37 rule. And look at that and say that one’s better than that one. And then from a health standpoint and preservatives and all that stuff, like how do we know that it’s a quote unquote clean beef jerky if there is such a thing? Tony Castillo: Yeah. So we, we wanna look for the, the minimal ingredients. That’s really it. And that’s gonna be tough, right? Yeah. If you can get someone that can make beef jerky locally and you can find it. So typically when I go in a gas, a gas station, sometimes you’ll see like a local beef jerky, and that’s typically gonna be the best [00:23:00] option because it’s. The closest made to you, you’re closest to, to that farmer where that was well cut and dried. Yeah. Versus something that’s made now. If you’re in a, in a food desert or a place, you can’t reach that, then just go for really any beef jerky that’s out there that has that one through seven rule and has the least amount of ingredients. Right. Okay. Because they might put a lot of added sugars that you may not need. Yeah. Okay. I’d rather get something with less added sugars because you don’t need that extra energy. Going back to that Gatorade we were talking about earlier. Most people don’t need that extra energy to push you through, Brett Gilliland: right? So what, so let’s talk about that. So that’s good. All that stuff is great. We’ve got our snacks now, but what, what are the things that we need to be doing for the mind? Cuz I think the food’s important. The mind is obviously really important. How do you marry those two together in your world? Tony Castillo: So let’s just talk about something I like to call the carb to fiber ratio. Okay, so when we’re talking about carbs, it has a bad wrap, Brett. People always want to demonize carbs, especially most recently with some of the bigger diets we hear out there. So this is called the [00:24:00] carb defibrillation. So I want you to imagine we have two carbs. We have a Lamborghini, and we have a Toyota Corolla. If we put premium gas in Lamborghini, it’s gonna run really well. Now, Brett, what happens when we put regular gas in that Brett Gilliland: Lamborghini? It’s gonna, it’s gonna, over time, it’s going to, uh, not do as well. Perform at its Tony Castillo: best. Absolutely. Now in the Corolla, what happens when we put premium gas in it? Brett Gilliland: Not much changes. I wouldn’t think. It may run a little bit more, uh, more performance, but, but not as much because it’s a Corolla versus a Lambo. Tony Castillo: Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right. But it will get a little bit more miles per gallon. So, uh, I’ve driven acro in the past, so I have nothing against them, but we always know we’re probably gonna put that regular gas in. When we’re talking about our bodies, we wanna put that premium fuel in. So when we’re talking about that premium fuel in, I’m gonna talk about that carb defi ratio. So when you look at any sort of carbohydrate product, so that’s gonna be rice bread, any sort of grain, even chips, you wanna take the total amounts of carbohydrates, so the grams of carbohydrates. And [00:25:00] divide it by the total grams of fiber. So one of my favorite examples to use, and you might have heard of this product, Brett, it is Special K. Have you ever heard of it? I have, yes. It’s probably one of the most well known quote unquote diet foods out there. Now, if you look at their carbon fiber ratio, it’s somewhere about 30 to one. So I haven’t even told you what the parameters are. The parameters of the carbon fiber ratio is you want it to be five to one or less. So anything that’s 10 to one and above means it’s a regular carb, meaning you’re gonna get a boost in energy, but also a crash in energy. It’s gonna do the same to your blood sugar. So that energy spike and that energy crash, where you might have is when you’re eating some of these regular carbohydrates. The premium carbohydrates will give you sustained energy throughout the day and will also monitor your hunger and your energy. So you want anything five to hundred or less. So that special K when pe, they had this two week diet that people were doing and they always felt. Lulls and highs of energy, it’s because there was no fiber to sustain it, so it helped the mind. If it has more fiber and because of that you’d have brain [00:26:00] fog doing these two week diets. So what are some products that actually have that carb de fiber ratio? One of my favorites is the Dave’s Killer Bread. Those definitely have some of those. Um, I’m not sponsored by them. Uh, let me just clarify that. Uh, now some other products that I really like are those, if you are someone who likes chips, the ESE chips, they actually have a really good carb de fiber ratio. If you are looking for something like that as a salty snacker. Then of course any fruits, vegetables, and whole grains will typically fit that range. But I always like to say it’s always good to check, right? So anything five to one or less is something you wanna reach for. And it’s been shown that you can have that steady state energy. And when I was working in baseball, I had a strength coach say, so you’re saying if I have a Snickers and a Metamucil, my energy’s gonna be sustained. You always get the call. You know what I’m saying, Brett? Well, right. I dunno if you’ve heard of these continuous glucose monitors, but it’s to monitor your blood sugars. And I wore one for three months, Brett, and I tried it out and I said, you know what, I’m gonna test out his theory. So I had a Snickers and a Metamucil. And what do you think happened? [00:27:00] Brett Gilliland: I would say you crashed, but I don’t know, maybe I’m not intelligent enough to figure this out, but I would say you probably crashed, uh, even though they were quote unquote hit the, hit the numbers. Tony Castillo: I actually didn’t, I actually sustained my energy, but it was not a snack that I wanna recommend because no one should be pairing Metamucil, right, with a, with a Snickers bar. But what it did show me is that having that fruit, which would be fiber, having some sort of fiber source in there is really gonna be helpful to maintaining those blood sugar levels. And using this carb defi ratio that I just shared with you is something that people can use today. The people listening to this. They can use it and go in the grocery store and see any of the options they have or any gas station. As you mentioned, Brett, they could go in and they can use this carb. Now remember, this is only for carbohydrate products. This does not count for things such as fats or proteins, which some people will send me, oh, what about nuts? I love nuts. But that is a fat versus a carbohydrate product. Okay? So that carbo fiber ratio will help you with your mind because now we’re not having those peaks and valleys. We’re getting that steady energy throughout the day because we’re getting enough [00:28:00] fiber throughout the day. Yeah, and not only that, Brett, The gut-brain axis, we keep hearing about gut health and how important gut health is, and we hear about all these supplements coming out, right? If we don’t eat enough carbohydrates, 95% of the serotonin or that happy, happy, uh, neurotransmitter that we have and our, and our gut is made. Yeah, from carbohydrates. So when we restrict carbohydrates, we’re literally restricting our happiness. Brett Gilliland: That’s why I love spaghetti then, I guess. Tony Castillo: Right. And there are some good carb de fiber, fiber spaghetti brands that I’ve worked with Italians, and they told me this is actually pretty good. One of them is called Za Pasta Bon, and it has bon some really good carb de fiber ratio. Brett Gilliland: Yes. Za pasta writing it down. Yeah. Tony Castillo: There you, you gotta let me know how you, if you like it or not. I will, Brett Gilliland: I will. Um, so what about, what was my thought Just gonna be, so the, um, So, I mean, how, how are you on the standpoint of like, for literally peak performance and which is what we want, right? People [00:29:00] listening to podcasts usually want that, but at the same time, we have our guilty pleasures of like today, again, my, my buffalo chicken and my fries. And, and and how much, how important is it to, to, to decrease that? Obviously the, the, you know, zero would be great and perfect maybe, but. But realistically, how much can we maintain peak performance and still have a subpar diet long term? And I think that’s me for 22 years, by the way. But, Tony Castillo: but as Brett Gilliland: I’m aging, as I’m aging, what, what do we need to be thinking about? Tony Castillo: So we always wanna make sure we focus on protein, but to give you numbers, because the people are listening, um, such as yourself, are numbers, people. Yes, we always hear the 80 20 rule, but how does that actually apply to meals? If we think about how many meals we have, which are breakfast, lunch, and dinner, that’s 21 meals. So 17 of those meals need to be in line with what your goals are with the other four being whatever you want. Now, if you have a high point of competition, now when I say [00:30:00] competition, it could be for an athlete or someone like yourself. Let’s say you have a very important deal that you’re, you’re closing or something’s going on, that’s when you want to be 95 5. That means you are 95% compliant with a 5% wiggle room. There should always be wiggle room because if not, it could lead to that binge restrict guilt cycle, which we want to avoid. So for you to have a buffalo chicken sandwich with some french fries, I dunno if that fits in your 5% or your 20%. But the important part is that hopefully fits in those percentages because anything over that is when we tar start to see noncompliance or we start to see the the drop in Brett Gilliland: performance. Got it. Okay. So 17 of my 21 meals need to be the, on the healthy side of how we would define healthy based on my goals. Tony Castillo: Yes. Love it. And I think the great way to, to do that is a plate method, which is something I teach, uh, to the people I work with. So it is one palm of protein, as we were mentioning earlier, your palm, the same thickness and the same size, not counting your fingers. You wanna have one fist of carbohydrates [00:31:00] and you wanna have two fists of fruits and vegetables. Combined that is the plate model. You should be looking for about 80% of the time with the other 20% really being whatever you Brett Gilliland: enjoy. So one palm of protein. So I eat chicken, Turkey, whatever, where I’m getting my protein, and one fist of carbohydrates, Tony Castillo: carbs. Okay, so that’s gonna be the breads, pastas, um, potatoes. Those are the things that click in my mind first. Yep. Brett Gilliland: Okay. 80% of meals. That’s right. Okay. Good news is I like fruit. Tony Castillo: What about Brett Gilliland: veggies? Yeah, I got, I got a love hate relationship with them, but, but I’ll, I’ll eat some asparagus, I’ll eat some broccoli and, uh, that’s about to the extent of my, I some peppers, I’ll eat some peppers. Uh, but that’s about the extent of my, uh, relationship with veggies. I get mine from, uh, much better. Tony Castillo: What’s that? That’s a [00:32:00] much better relationship than most people I’ve worked Brett Gilliland: with. Okay. I, but you know what’s crazy is I don’t like, but I love like green juice. Like I love green juice in the morning, like pheno, you know, it has a bunch of kale in it and lemon and apple and whatever else they’ve got in it, um, where I buy it and it’s uh, it’s amazing. I love it. And I feel like that’s probably pretty good for me, at least in my mind. It is. Do you want the real answer? No, cuz you’re gonna tell me it’s not good for me. Tony Castillo: Well, Brett, just going back to that car de fiber ratio. Yeah. I want you to look at what that green juice’s, carbohydrate to fiber ratio is. Ugh. Brett Gilliland: So what do I do instead of my green juice? No, no, no. Tony Castillo: You can have the green juice. I’m not negating the fact. Right? So that’s that carb source, so that’s gonna give you energy. Yeah. So I’d love for you to add some sort of protein in it, because as we’re aging, Brett, We might hear that people at the older age group, they typically fall and break their hips, not because they’ve lost balance because of something mentally, but it’s because they’re losing muscle mass. They don’t have that core strength anymore, and that’s because we typically [00:33:00] tend to stop eating as more protein as we age. And protein’s what helps keep muscle on. And that muscle building switch I was mentioning earlier. Got it. So if we’re looking at that longevity piece, how can we add a protein to that green juice? What’s something that you not, you don’t have to add it in it, but what could you have next to Brett Gilliland: it or beside it? Yeah, so even as simple as that beef jerky, you know, getting some good beef jerky that’s clean in, in the morning. I’m having some grass fed beef jerky and my green juice. You’d like that. Or if I did a little avocado toast with some sort of maybe almond butter or peanut butter with some avocado on top and, and, and that with my green juice. Is that all right? Tony Castillo: Yeah, that’s beautiful. And okay, real quick, on Grassfed beef, all beef is grassfed except for the last one to three months where they might be fed some sort of grain. And I learned this because I went to go talk to Cattleman and do this for a living, and I thought that was very interesting because we’re all fed, yeah, this data on grassfed, but it’s typically the last one to three months that they might change what it’s being fed. Brett Gilliland: Okay. Interesting. Yeah, I’ll have to talk to my father-in-law. That’s where I get my beef [00:34:00] is, uh, you know, the Williams Farm over there in southern Illinois. So hopefully he’s doing, ask him. I love to hear for, I’ve only been eating it for 25 years almost. So. Um, so talk to us about, uh, alcohol. Like, uh, you know, this isn’t a question for me. I’m sure somebody’s riding in right now as we’re speaking. They wanna know. So we’ve got, we’ve got beer, we’ve got wine, we’ve got tequila, we’ve got vodka, and we’ve got bourbon. Is anyone quote unquote better for us than the other? Tony Castillo: I always like to ask Brett, what are your goals? So if we are talking about someone trying to optimize fat loss and build muscle mass and help with that peak performance, I want you to think about in your house, if we have a leaky faucet and a fire, which one will you attend to first? The leaky faucet or the fire? The fire. The fire. So anytime we drink alcohol, it’s like there’s a fire in the house. Look, I drink alcohol, Brett, so lemme be clear. I’m a big bourbon fan myself and I know what happens. So yeah, so what happens is the [00:35:00] body’s gonna try to get rid of that alcohol as quickly as possible. It’s gonna try to put out that fire because losing body fat and increasing muscle mass is like that leaky faucet. It’s gonna be the last thing the body’s gonna wanna do or attend to. So alcohol, it actually. Depletes our muscle glycogen. So in our muscles we have these storages of carbohydrates, which is called glycogens, and we drink alcohol. It actually reduces those stores by 50%. So if someone drinks and they wake up the next day to do some sort of workout, you will feel much more tired. And the other thing with alcohol, it actually increases our cortisol or stress hormone. So anytime someone has a nightcap, it’s actually probably one of the worst things you can do for bed because it’s gonna increase that stress hormone. Right. Meaning you’re gonna wake up in the middle of the night and go pee and you might not be able to fall back asleep. And it’s because of that cortisol being raised. And typically after a night of drinking that next day, you probably want a nap in the middle of the day. And that’s because you were never truly able to get that deep sleep. Brett Gilliland: Got it. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, favorite bourbon, what is it? [00:36:00] Tony Castillo: Oh, it is the Blanton’s, straight from the barrel. Mm, Brett Gilliland: some good stuff. What about you? I like Blanton’s, but I’m a big, I like Weller. I like Weller. I think the best, my favorite story in bourbon is, is Horse Soldier. And I’m dying. I just got a bottle, a bottle autographed by one of those guys. Are, are you familiar with the Horse Soldier? Tony Castillo: That’s the one out of, um, St. Pete. Is it not? Brett Gilliland: There is, there’s, they have a, a horse soldier restaurant there. Yeah, they, they make it up here in Kentucky. Um, but do you know the story? No, what’s the story? So they, you know, the 13 horsemen that rode in, uh, to the mil, like in the, um, to Afghanistan started to war off September 11th. So I think it was four of those guys when they were done with the military service, they started a bourbon company and they called it horse Soldier cuz they came in on the horses, right? And they sourced, uh, and I’m not an expert on this, so I’m, I’m going off of what I’ve learned and read and, and watched YouTube video on, but they sourced the steel to, you know, you gotta make your bottle formation right? So every bottle. Was made in steel that came from the World Trade Centers on September 11th. [00:37:00] It’s unbelievable. So every single bottle that you touch has touched the World Trade Center. So it gives me chills, uh, just thinking about that. So it was pretty cool. My wife’s cousin got to go meet one of the colonels, uh, that’s one of the four guys that made it and, you know, got to meet him and get an autographed bottle and all that stuff. But I just think that’s awesome, man, for our country and what they’ve done. And, and so now to have that bourbon story, I think every bourbon’s, you know, there’s a lot of bourbons that are great, but I just love the story behind it. Tony Castillo: I did not know that. What a great story. And I, I felt some chills as you were telling me. I was like, oh my gosh, I wanna go buy it. To just show respect, like, thanks for what they did, Brett Gilliland: right? Yeah. Yeah. So they’ve got three different kinds. You know, they got the, the lower price, the medium, and you know, they’re 52, maybe 72 and 92 or something like that box. And uh, they’re all phenomenal. All great stuff. So, uh, anyway, we could talk bourbon. That’s a whole nother podcast. Maybe we’ll create the Tony and Brett bourbon show or something. Um, I Tony Castillo: love that. We could talk about Pappy’s. I’ll bring Brett Gilliland: them out. Exactly. I like it. Um, so talk to us about exercise. [00:38:00] Obviously you being a nutritionist type stuff, or dietician I should say. Um, but exercise is critically important with our food intake. So for you, are you focused on strength like weight training? Uh, flexibility, mobility, cardio, like where does that fall in those, what I would call the big three. Tony Castillo: I always say, what can you do for the longest amount of time? A lot of people now have been going towards pickleball, actually, that I’ve seen. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They found it to be very enjoyable and I found that a lot of people I’ve been working with are getting more injured from it because they’re not used to those explosive movements in that short distance. Yeah. So it’s always taking care of the body because the body’s constantly breaking down. So real quick, I think I would say whatever you can do long term, but they show that strength training is probably one of the best ones. And I’d be an advocate for, yeah. However, I am more about personalization. Meaning what do you like to do for the long term? What do you actually enjoy doing? Not. Hey, you should go run a marathon because that’s what’s gonna help. It’s like, well, what’s gonna keep you longer is what you can do the longest and enjoy doing. [00:39:00] Yeah, Brett Gilliland: that’s a good point. That’s a very good point. Yeah. So how do we, um, we probably talked about some of this stuff, but some of the notes I, I wrote down is, uh, what one of the most common dietary deficiencies, uh, that you see out there, and how do we address those? So you Tony Castillo: mentioned earlier in the background, taken them. Yeah, my daughter just came home from school. She really wants to see her dad. Brett Gilliland: I’m sure you can tell her to come in and say hi. I’ve got four kids. Yeah, I know what it’s like. All right. Hold Tony Castillo: on. Yeah. Lemme see if she wants to come in. All right. Gimme a second. Amaya, you wanna come Brett Gilliland: say hi? We’re gonna get a new, uh, a new podcast guest here? Yeah. Oh, she Tony Castillo: what? She just bumped her head. Oh, she bumped her head. Amiya. You wanna come say hi? No. No. She Brett Gilliland: said no, dad. I do not. Yeah. She’s like, she just bumped her head. Oh, well that’s awesome. That’s, uh, well, hopefully she’s okay. And I’m sure mommy will be out there fixing that. Yeah. And she wants mommy more than you anyway, right Tony Castillo: now. So that’s the way it goes, Brett. We know how it goes as much. That’s, and my wife is pregnant with number two, so, and it’s a boy. [00:40:00] Oh. Oh, congrats. I need some tips from you. Thank you. All right. What to do. Cause this one is, that’s awesome. It’s a girl, so I’m excited for a boy. Brett Gilliland: That’s exciting. Well, congratulations. So, yeah, so the dietary deficiencies, how do we address them? Tony Castillo: Yes. So you spoke about vitamin D. You spoke about fish oils. So two questions I have for you. You said you did taste test your vitamin D, and that’d be one of the supplements I would highly recommend, but you have to test it first. So there’s three different levels. We have 20 and below, which means you are deficient and you’re not having enough. So you definitely wanna supplement with that. Anything 20 to 30 is insufficient, and what we found is that most doctors think 30 and above is okay. But in the sports and performance world and what we’re seeing in longevity, it’s actually 40 and above. You want it to be at. Wow. That’s where that key vitamin D is at and that’s where research is actually gearing towards. And then with fish oils, there’s a few things you should look at. So we spoke about that third party certification, but Brett, you also wanna make sure the EPA and the dha, which is on the back of the bottle, add up to as much of the total omega threes there are in it. [00:41:00] Why is that? EPA and e P Brett Gilliland: is what you said. E p, Tony Castillo: A and d H A. D Brett Gilliland: H a, Tony Castillo: okay. Yes. Because you might find at your gas station or local pharmacy a buy one get one free X fish oil and you might buy it thinking, oh, this, I’m getting a deal on it. But it may have a total of a thousand milligrams of omega threes and it only have 200. EPA and DHA combined, that means you have 800 milligrams of garba of crack. Okay. Brett Gilliland: So if it’s a, if it’s a, I’m making this up cause I don’t even know what the numbers would be. So if it’s a thousand omega three s I need the D, EPA and the DHA to have 500 each or whatever the closest Tony Castillo: three. Yeah, Brett Gilliland: yeah, absolutely. Cause that means you need, and I’m sure the source I get it from these guys are the real deal. So it, um, I’m sure mine is perfectly fine, but I will definitely check, check it when I get home tomorrow. Tonight, please double tonight. Tony Castillo: Tonight. And especially cuz you told me you eat chicken and Turkey. I didn’t hear a lot of fish. And being in the Midwest, fish can be difficult to get in source and people probably don’t like [00:42:00] it. So there’s actually a test out there called the Omega Index. And what you can do it, it’s just like a finger prick and you drop three bloods, it’s about $50 and you can order it online. And what this does, it, it tells us, I think it’s called the Omega quant. The, the company, again, not sponsored, just really wanted to push the right information out there. Yeah, you can test it and because you wanna find that omega-3 to omega six level ratio, you have, you want it to be 8% and above and the standard American diet is 4% and below. And the reason it is like that, it’s because a lot of the processed foods we eat, And the lack of omega threes we actually get from our food. So what does this cause in the long term? It can cause heart disease, that brain dysfunction, because we use a lot of those omega threes in our brain. So why is this important and how can we test it using that omega quant test? And then how we can change it is by making sure we get high quality fish oil, and also trying to eat fish three to four times a week. And that simple test, it gives us almost a four month picture of how your red blood cells have been using those omega three s. And that’s how it comes up with that. That’s why you poke your finger and you drop it on there. Yeah. So anytime [00:43:00] I work with someone where they, they tell me they, they feel inflamed. I like to have them actually do this test cuz this will give us the numbers as an inflammation marker. And when they say they have family genetics of heart disease, this will also give me a gauge on things we can work on to help with their longevity and not just their right now performance. Brett Gilliland: Okay. And so let’s speak while we’re talking about longevity, let’s spend some more time on that. Other things that, uh, to aid in being that my, my goal in life is there’s a lot of goals in life, but one of ’em is to live well into my nineties and play golf on my hundredth birthday. Okay, so I love that if you’re around, we can go golfing. My hundredth birthday be November 14th of whatever year that will be. Um, and so, um, what can we do to prolong and, and age well and live well into our nineties? Tony Castillo: One thing we want to do is make sure we eat mostly plants. Okay? So eating those fruits and vegetables give us that fiber and has been showed to keep us around longer. Right. We also wanna make sure we continue with that protein threshold, so we should be having about 1.6 [00:44:00] grams per kilogram. I know I keep pushing protein, but that’s how we keep muscle on. And one other supplement we didn’t touch base Brett Gilliland: on. Say that again For the every, everybody else understood that, but I’m slow. So for every 1.6 grams. Tony Castillo: Per kilogram. So that’s only because that’s what the science says, uh, to convert it to pounds. So let’s say you weigh, let’s just put a number out there, 200 pounds and kilograms. That’s, let’s just call it a hundred. Cause it’s, it’s divided by 2.2, so we’ll call it a hundred. So you need about 160 grams of protein per day in order to meet that threshold. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So if I’m, I’m way 1 65. We can just Yes. Tony Castillo: Divide that by two, just to give it a, a rough number. And then multiplied by 1.6, we’ll call it one 30, give or Brett Gilliland: take. So 130 grams of protein a day is what I would need, is what you’re saying? Yes. Tony Castillo: Approximately. And that 1.6 is that minimum threshold to help with longevity. That isn’t just me taking a number. That’s what the research says. 1.6 is the, the, [00:45:00] the low end, the higher end is 2.2 grams, so that’d be a gram of protein per pound, but you don’t really need that, that hasn’t been shown to have any longevity. Yeah. Or ergogenic effect. 1.6, you’re, you’re doing solid and you’ll do just fine. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, so that’s amazing, man. So, I mean, cuz then I think about, you know, as you age too, it’s like, it’s harder. I’ve been blessed with jeans and I’ve stayed skinny, but like, you know, as I’m getting older, you start to see things that, uh, change more than they did when you were 35 versus 45, right? So how do we focus on not eat, so eat a lot, eat a lot of protein, which could argue that’s gonna make you gain weight, but then, but in, but we need it. So how do we do that? And then stay skinny exercise, right? Tony Castillo: So, Protein is one of the themic effects of food, so it actually burns the most out of carbs and fats and alcohol. So it actually keeps satiated, but it’s also one of the best tools to burn up that extra energy we have. So it won’t cause you to gain more weight. It actually has been shown when they actually do [00:46:00] calorie restrictions, having a higher protein has been the one that’s actually helped maintain the muscle mass. Okay, now, in order to do all this, it’s, it’s a lot to think about, right? So my goal is to make it so that they don’t have a lot to think about. So you wanna have that protein, you wanna have it every three to four hours so that you stay satiated and keep that muscle building switch on for that longevity reason. So how do you not put on the weight? Follow that simple plate method I mentioned earlier, and follow that 80% of the time. Right. Let’s just keep it simple. I, I like to keep things very simple. I love and use things, love we have on hand, which is our hands, right? Most people have two hands and they can measure out their portions just by using their hands. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And you’re doing this, you’re following, you’re eating your own or taking your own medicine. I mean, the 80% time and, you know, again, you can have your occasional bourbon and all that, but you’re doing the things that you need to do daily, uh, to live the life that you wanna live based on your goals. Tony Castillo: Brett, I do it because I was able to see elite level athletes do it that went to the Olympics, that have been to the World Series because I, I was able to educate them on it and I saw them do [00:47:00] it. Yeah. And it’s not only living my life, but it’s being the best performer I can be for my family. And I wanna teach that to so many others because as we know, we get so many outlets of nutrition. But where is the right source? What’s gonna actually help us live longer, happier lives? So that’s why I use that 80 20 rule, because we need that 20% Brett. Yeah. And sometimes we hear these extremes, these fat diets. And even going back to that culture being an obstacle, right? So many people cut out their favorite foods and then they decide to do a diet that’s not meant for them. Then they end up being unhappy and that’s what causes them to go over and over and over against these diets. Yep. Brett Gilliland: Yep. So let’s recap. So 80% of my meals need to be one palm of protein, one fist carbs, two fists, fruits, and veggies. Um, check the omega threes. It sounds like a lot of people need to be taking omega threes anyway. But you can do the blood work, um, eat mostly plants, and I’m gonna have around 130, 140 grams of protein per day. So people listening can do the math on their own weight. And that’s gonna help. Not only will you [00:48:00] not, I’m not guaranteeing, we’re not guaranteeing that you won’t gain weight here, but you know, that’s gonna help you not gain weight, cuz it’s gonna burn more of the fats and the, the bad stuff that we’re putting in our body, uh, by doing that every three to four hours. Um, so that, that’s a big deal. Your favorite bourbon is some, uh, cast strength, uh, yeah. Blanton stuff, stuff, you know, Blanton’s. Yeah. And so that, that carb to fiber ratio, the 1 37 for the, uh, beef jerky. Take a look at that stuff. The core power drink. Um, if I could, uh, last, kinda last question for me here, Tony. If I could pull one thing away, if, if I was gonna pull one thing away from your habits that you do every day, what’s that one thing like? It’s, it’s the master of them all. What’s the one thing that you hope I’d tell you? Okay. He’s holding up water. For those of you listening, he’s holding up water. That’s the most important thing for you, that if I took it from you said you can never do it again. That’s the biggest one. Tony Castillo: Hydrate or hydrate because so many of us are chronically dehydrated and we don’t know it. So many people, when I start with them, yeah, they start drinking [00:49:00] the correct amount of water, they start to perform better. They start to think clearer. Because we’re chronically dehydrated. Then we have the other end of the spectrum where people overdrink water, where I have these jars of peas on my desk, which I’m gonna show you now. Uh, this one is clear pea. This one is a hydrated pea, which is like lemonade. And finally I have one that is a very dark urine. Of course it’s not actual urine, Brett, but when I was doing a talk to fifth graders, I wanted to keep their attention. When I told ’em I had jars of pee on my desk, they all looked at the same time. So Brett Gilliland: yeah, this guy’s crazy, Tony Castillo: but that clear urine that we see, it’s a great way to, to see if we’re actually hydrated. Means we’re actually not getting enough of that sodium, potassium, magnesium, and chloride we were talking about earlier. So that means you’re not getting those electrolytes and that constant urination, especially if you’re waking up in the middle of the night, probably means you’re not getting enough of the electrolytes to actually absorb the water, or you’re drinking too much at certain points in time. Yeah, because you want your urine to look like lemonade. If it looks like apple juice or clear, you’re doing something wrong. Yeah. So if you were [00:50:00] to take away my hydrated or hydrate as I like to say, that would be the one thing that I think would be a biggest impact on anyone. Are you Brett Gilliland: adding electrolytes to your Tony Castillo: water? Yes, absolutely. Especially being in Florida. You’ve been down here, you know the humidity. Yeah. I’m sweating out like a crazy man. Yeah, Brett Gilliland: right. So what do you add? Like is that like little droplets? Is it like a little packet? Like what do you personally do? I, you don’t have to say the brand if you don’t want, but Tony Castillo: Yeah. I, I like to add an electrolyte packet. There’s a couple out there that I like. Um, one is element. L M N T is a good one. I like, oh yeah, I like the Propel. I like the uh, Gatorade Zeros are some of the ones I’ve been currently using because I don’t need that add added sugar because I’m not training for a marathon. The kind of physical activity I do, I might be able to add a little bit of those carbohydrates, but I’d rather get them from a food source versus a liquid beverage. But again, someone who doesn’t like to have those liquid or like to eat anything before workout, I like to recommend those liquid hydrating beverages. Cause you get a little bit of carbs and you get. The electrolytes perfect for the golf course as well. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So if [00:51:00] I’m drinking and I’m holding this Yeti thing up, I don’t know how many ounces this is. Let’s call it 16 ounces. Are you doing the electrolytes in every one of these? If I drink seven to 10 of these a day, so am I doing that in every one of them or just like in a few of them? Tony Castillo: I would say one to two. Brett Gilliland: One to two of the seven. So if I did seven bottles of, or Yetis a day, um, then I’m gonna do one to two of those with electrolytes in them. Tony Castillo: Especially if you eat a whole food diet because you’re missing out on salt. Right. The good thing about processed foods, which you probably never hear anyone that’s in the food space say, is that it does have that sodium. Yeah. Which helps us retain water. Right. So if you do a whole food diet and you’re not adding salt to your food, you can definitely get it from just adding it into the, your hydration beverage. So what do you Brett Gilliland: think? I take some of my water in the mornings. I’d take a, uh, couple pinches of, uh, salt. I can’t, uh, what’s the salt? I, uh, I’m drawing a blank on what it is, the sea salt type stuff. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I’m putting that into my water. And you like, you like that. Tony Castillo: Perfect. I love that. That’s probably the best way. You don’t have to name drop any brands. You [00:52:00] can have salt to your water and that is the best way to go Brett Gilliland: about it, Brett. Yeah. Okay. So it’s good. So I just keep it right in my little, we have an island in our closet there. I just put two pinches in the morning and out I go and I haven’t finished by the time I get to the office. Little salty, of course, obviously. Uh, but it, but it’s good love. That’s a spice to my water. Tony, this has been awesome, man. What, um, where do our listeners find more of Tony Castillo? Tony Castillo: Absolutely. They can go to nutrition fp.com/cos, which stands for Circuit of Success since I was on this podcast. They can go down Awesome. On that page and they can find three things. The first one is an executive wellness. Assessment so they can assess how well they’re actually doing. The second thing on there is a habit tracker that I give out with the video. It can help you change your habits in 30 days. And the final thing on there is if they found this talk useful, they wanna know more about me, they can schedule a call with me. So that’s three things on there. They can check it out@nutritionfp.com, back slash cos, which stands for Circuit of Success. I love it. We’ll Brett Gilliland: put all this in the show notes, man. We [00:53:00] will send people your way. Tony, it’s been great having you on the Circuit of success, man. Tons of takeaways here. And, uh, I’m gonna go home and coach some sports tonight, but I’m gonna check my, uh, my, uh, omega-3, uh, you know, stuff first to make sure we’re in the right, right direction. Let me know, Tony Castillo: man, I’d love to, to help you and just lemme know what your levels are and I’ll give you some tips. All right, brother. Brett Gilliland: Thanks so much, man. It’s great having you. Same. Have a great Tony Castillo: one.

Join host Brett Gilliland in this inspiring episode of the Circuit of Success podcast as he chats with Jim Harshaw Jr., a renowned coach and mentor. They discuss the power of clarity in achieving goals, the importance of surrounding yourself with high-performing individuals, and the value of daily habits for personal and professional growth. Jim shares stories of individuals who have achieved remarkable success through the consistent practice of goal-setting and accountability. Discover how the productive pause, journaling, and focused reflection can provide clarity of action and peace of mind, leading to an elevated level of performance in all areas of life. Tune in and be motivated to embrace clarity, set meaningful goals, and take intentional action to create your own path to success. Circuit of Success – Youtube   Brett Gilliland: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland, and today I’ve got Jim Haw with me. Jim, how you doing? Jim Harshaw Jr: Great, man. Great to Brett Gilliland: meet you, Brett. Great to be with you. Uh, you are in Charlottesville, Virginia. What’s cooking in Charlottesville today? Jim Harshaw Jr: Charlottesville’s. Good man. I’m Pittsburgh Native or, but, uh, born in, born and bred up there, but, um, Charlottesville’s home now going to the University of Virginia. Tried leaving a couple times and it didn’t work. This place has a gravity to it, so uh, it sucked you Brett Gilliland: back in. Yeah. Jim Harshaw Jr: Yeah. Wipe. That’s awesome. Four kids. We ruin our roots here. We love Brett Gilliland: it. How old are the Jim Harshaw Jr: kids? Nine through 17. So two boys and two girls. So we got three teenagers now and a nine year old. And, uh, so it’s, you know, life is busy. It’s, uh, it takes effort to stay balanced. Yeah. And, and to keep everything, uh, everything moving the right direction. And in all the areas of your life, which is really. It’s the crux of what I do Brett Gilliland: with people. That’s right. That’s right. Well, we must be in the exact [00:01:00] same boat. My youngest just turned nine on Saturday, so I’ve got a nine. My 13 year old just turned 13 two Fridays ago and then a 15 and a 17 year old. So that’s exact same ages. Yeah. Maybe we’ll just stay in this exact same, uh, tone for the podcast was talk about being a father of four kids and how crazy it’s. Yeah. Yeah. We, we could talk for data that, absolutely. Well, you are a, uh, former division one, uh, all American athlete, internationally recognized TEDx speaker and a personal performance coach. Uh, you’ve had, you’ve impacted hundreds of thousands of lives across the world, helping clients and audiences increase resilience. Maximize potential and build high performing teams. And so some of those things is what we’re gonna talk about today. But before we do that, if you can, man, just give us a little lay of the land, what’s made you the man you are today, and tell us a little bit about that upbringing and where you’re at today. Yeah. Jim Harshaw Jr: Um, so grew up in Western Pennsylvania. Like I said, I’m a, I’m a blue collar kid. Grew up in a small town. Uh, dad was a construction worker, [00:02:00] mine was a secretary. Blue collar, hardworking folks. You know, um, kinda always had the mindset that success was for other people, and that carried over into my wrestling and. You know, I’ve never achieved any of my goals in wrestling in high school. Uh, my goal is to be a state champion. Never, never got on, never won a state championship, never even got onto the podium at the state championship. So it didn’t even come close. But I worked hard and got good grades night, but good grades and good enough to, uh, between that, between my grades and wrestling, it opened up the door for me to get into the number one public. Academic university in the country at the University of Virginia. And so got to UVA and, and just felt like I was over my head there. I was, you know, everybody on the wrestling team was a state champion or a three time or two time state place winner. I was none of those. Uh, academically, like I said, I got in because of wrestling. Um, you know, even. Socially, you know, [00:03:00] it’s a, it’s a white collar, sort of affluent school and you know, I I, we didn’t have a whole lot growing up, you know, and yeah, so it was, it was a definite point in life where I thought to myself like, can I, this is the next level. Can I make it at the next level? Can I find success here? Do I belong here? A lot of doubt, a lot of uncertainty. And five years later I graduate with an undergraduate degree and a master’s degree. Wow. Uh, I was a three-time ACC champion ncaa, all-American Division One American. Uh, I was ranked on the Olympic level in the United States at that point. I was invited to live in train at the Olympic Training Center as an Olympic hopeful. So complete transformation happened in that time at Virginia. Brett Gilliland: So what, what, boil that back for us. If you can like, boil that down for us, I should say, like, what was it about that? Right. If you come in and I’m, I’m using air quotes for those not watching and just listening. Maybe if you were average right. You don’t win. I think you said [00:04:00] three ACC championships. Yeah. Right. And so, right. That doesn’t just happen, man. So what clicked for you to take that mindset from I’m, I’m mediocre average to I’m, I’m one of the best. Jim Harshaw Jr: Yeah, yeah, great question. So, I, I couldn’t put it into, into words for a long time because after I got outta college, I ended getting into coaching and I ended up as the young, I was, I was a division one head coach. I was the youngest division one head coach in the country. I got coached for about a decade, got outta coaching, started my first business, and that was successful. I sold that, started my next business, raised some Angel Capital, built this technology company, and about two years into that, I realized that everything I’m trying to build for my family, I is crumbling around me. I, I had a, a. Failing business. We had debt up to our eyeballs, wasn’t spending enough time with my wife and kids. I was just so single-minded, focused on one thing. Like I wasn’t, I was single-minded, focused on wrestling, and I was single-minded focused in this [00:05:00] business. And, um, so I was, you know, not paying attention to, to my wife or my kids. I wasn’t working out. I was in the worst physical shape of my life. I know. I was, I was broken. Broken at that point. Mm. And so to get back to the point of, you know, what was it during that time at Virginia that. Turned me from, from sort of underperformer to peak performer. I was trying to figure that same thing out. I’m laying there in bed as I’m closing down this business. I’m, you know, you know, pulling the plug on this thing and I’m starting to look for jobs and, you know, I’m on like Craigslist, you know, like looking for jobs, you know, scrolling past jobs for like paper boys and unpaid internships and thinking to myself like, like, this wasn’t this, this wasn’t supposed to be my trajectory. Like, like I didn’t, you know, I thought I’d be further along at this point in my career. And, and so I thought to myself like, what was in place in my life that helped me go from underperformer to peak performer? That totally transformed me when I was wrestling and people talk about all these great life lessons that you learn in sports. Like, like, I, I need them now because I don’t know if I didn’t [00:06:00] learn ’em or, or I wasn’t paying attention, but I definitely need them now. And so I was laying there. I remember it was like LA laying there at night. One night next to my wife, she was asleep in bed and I’m like staring at the ceiling in the dark. I’m thinking to myself like, what, what, what was in place then? It’s not in place now. Right. And I realized it was like a camera lens coming into focus. There were, there were four things, four very distinct things that were in place then that were not in place at that moment. And the, and the first one is this. I had a very clear vision for what success looked like for me. And it was based upon my values. Okay? So I had this vision, this very clear vision, and, and it was based upon my values. And you know, when you’re an athlete, the, the vision for success, it’s pretty clear, but you get out into the real world. I. It’s, it’s undefined, right? We, we have so many different things, you know, shiny objects and things that we want, and it’s like, what does success actually look like for me? What is that clear vision that I’m pursuing and what is it based [00:07:00] on? And to be honest, when I was wrestling, I couldn’t have told you my core values like I can today. But I knew I wanted to be tough. I wanted to be respected. I wanted to go on to success after wrestling, like so many of my heroes and mentors did before me, and. So, so I, that was the first piece is I had this, this clear vision in these values, and then the second piece of four, Is I had goals that aligned with those values, not goals that aligned with, you know, what the mass media tells you that you should want or what you see on social media. Yeah. Or what you see parked in your neighbor’s driveway. But goals that aligned with Jim with who I was at a deep foundational level. Because when you have that failing in, in, in adversity and setbacks, They’re not quite irrelevant, but certainly the pain and the impact that those have on you is, is significantly less. You can be resilient. You can keep getting up one more time. You can [00:08:00] do the hard work. And I make a distinction between hard work and inspired action. I mean, wrestling is known for, for being a tough sport and the hard work that we put in, but really it’s, it’s inspired action. I was inspired. To do the things that I had to do to get to where I got to, to get onto the podium and national championships, to be an Olympic hopeful, I was inspired to do that. It wasn’t hard work. I mean, it was hard work of course, in the sort of the, the, the traditional sense, but Yeah. But you loved It was really, I was inspired to do it. Right, and, and so, The, the one caveat I’ll I’ll make here is like, again, I said earlier that there, I had a single-minded focus, um, when I was wrestling and I had single-minded focus with this business that failed in the real world. You know, guys like you and I, Brett, we can’t have a single-minded focus. We have, you know, we have our careers, we have our health and wellness, we have our families. There’s so much at stake here, more than just, you know, winning a wrestling match or winning a championship, right? So that’s the second piece. And then the third part was, I had what I call an environment of excellence. I had coaches around me, like [00:09:00] coaches who had walked the walk. They knew how to get me from where I was to where I wanted to go. They held me accountable. They asked me the hard question. They kicked me in the ass if I need a kick or help me course correct, if that’s what I needed. They could see my blind spots. Um, I was around. You know, teammates, like, like-minded people going through the same ups and downs, going through the, the same successes and the same failure had similar goals as me. So this is this environment that I had around me, this environment of excellence that again, it, you know, when I had this business that failed, like. I didn’t have that. I wasn’t surrounded by the right people. Not just in in my life, but also in my, my personal life, in my health and fitness. Uh, I mentioned to you an organization called F three before we started chatting here. Yeah. It’s this men’s workout group that I’m part of here in Charlottesville, and I’m actually. I’m on the Advisory Council for the, the National Foundation of the organization as well, but it’s just a group of dudes who show up every morning. Not every morning, but several mornings a week. And we do really hard workouts. We worked out at [00:10:00] five 30 this morning and it was really freaking hard, and this is part of my environment of excellence. I know these guys are waiting for me. I. Uh, there, there’s a community of guys who are willing to go through hard things at, at, at o o dark 30 in the morning. And, and it’s this environment of excellence. So we have to craft that. It, it just exists by default in as you’re, when you’re an athlete, especially at the division one level. Uh, certainly at the Olympic level, uh, military folks can, can understand this because there’s an infrastructure there as well. Um, so that’s the third piece. And then the fourth and final piece is you have to have a plan. To follow through. Like it’s one thing to identify your vision and your values and have these aligned goals and have this environment of excellence, but Brett Gilliland: you know, I. Kids Jim Harshaw Jr: get sick and that throws you off, or cars break down, or global pandemics happen, happens, whatever it might be. Things throw you off course and then you never get back on the path. And if you, if you drift through life and you, you’ve done this [00:11:00] work, but you’re not following through on, you don’t have any structured systematic plan, execute and follow through, even on the bad days, in bad weeks and bad months in bad quarters. You’re, you know, it’s gonna be something you did. It was great. It’s helpful. I set these goals, but, uh, I don’t even remember what they are now. And, and that’s where, that’s where most people fall off. Brett Gilliland: So what would you recommend to those people that, uh, maybe they don’t have the group around them that you had at Virginia to help you get to that point? Right. Maybe they’re working in an environment that doesn’t foster that. Right. Not everybody’s lucky to have that. So for that person that is looking for more, that wants to be around more, Um, what advice would you have for them if they don’t have it in their everyday Jim Harshaw Jr: world now? Those people are out there and, and we have to actively seek them. You have to actually create a, like an action item, a plan, a goal to get around those people. And, and it’s, it might be as simple as getting into a business networking group, right? Getting around other, other business leaders or entrepreneurs. [00:12:00] Um, get, get into, uh, a workout group like I talked about, right? Find other pe. If you don’t have F three in your area, you can. Google F three, and you can find out if it’s in your area. I know where you’re in St. Louis. There’s tons of those. But like get around, find ways to get around these people. Um, uh, church is another one, you know, like, doesn’t matter, like wherever you can find people who are operating at the level that you want to operate, like go get around those people. So for me, I, you know, looking back on my career, I, I gave a TEDx talk titled Why I Teach My Children To Fail, which was largely about my wrestling career, which was mostly failure, uh, until I got onto the podium with the national championships and, and that like, I, I, I gave that TEDx talk only it, it started from a failure. Uh, I, I spoke at an event and I was, I was terrible. I was nervous. I was like, just did, it’s a horrible job. It was embarrassing. You know, I’m like, I gotta fix this. Well, who do I know? Or how, how can I get around to other people who either are working on [00:13:00] fixing this or have already fixed this? Well, Toastmasters. And so I joined the local Toastmasters, started giving speeches in a safe environment and learning how to give talks. And lo and behold, one day an opportunity came up. To, to give a TEDx talk. I applied, I got chosen, there was like six, they had like this whole lineup of great speakers and they had one spot for a community speaker. And I applied and there was 65 people applied, 25 of us got a chance, sort of do an audition in front of 500 people. It was an audition. Wow. And then they did an audience vote and I won that and I got to speak on the main stage. And, but it’s like, you know, uh, luck is when opportunity meets preparation, they say. Right. So I was prepared for that. But I was around people. It was a group of people who were studying and learning the same thing. And if it wasn’t for those people, I would’ve never gotten to do the TEDx talk. And the TEDx talk spawned really spawned my podcast and spawned my business and, and really led to so many other things. So, um, you have those people are out there. [00:14:00] There’s a. Quote, who was it? Jim Rohn I think said, you are the average of the five people. You most, yes. You spend the most time around. And, and for me, so you know, we talked, you know, we both have four kids. So in my home there’s three females and two males. Right? Three females and two males. And so for the average of those are, those are the five people I spend the most time with. So the average for me would be like a teenage girl. So I’d be like a teenage girl if the average minimum wage exactly right. You have to like, so how, what are the other ways you can bring people into your world? Like, so the environment of excellence, it’s actually, there’s actually four pieces to it now. I’ll break it down real quick. So, and a way to remember it is through the acronym. Maps. M A P S M stands for media. You can bring these people into your world, into your universe through listening to podcasts like this one through books, through, you know, uh, social media, who you do follow, and also who you don’t. [00:15:00] Follow. Right. What’s the media that I need in my life and what’s the media I need to block outta my life? So when I was wrestling, you know, I shoot, I, I, uh, I, I didn’t watch watch tv, but when I did, I was watching film of the national championships or the world championships, or breaking down film of myself or my opponents. I used to have a mindset audio that I listened to with a Walkman. You remember Walkman? Oh yeah. Walkman back in the day, you know, it was like a cassette tape. But I would listen, I would listen to that before I went to bed. Like this is the media. That it brought into my life, right? And it, it moved me towards the goals that I wanted to achieve. So that M is for media. A stands for area, and this is just physical. Brett Gilliland: These are the four. These are the four. What again? Sorry. Jim Harshaw Jr: These are the four parts of the Environment of excellence. Environment of excellence. There you go. Yep. Yep. And, and so m a p s maps and, and just like you need a map to get from where you’re at, to where you wanna go. You gotta have, you know, a map to get from where you’re at, to where you wanna go in, in your real, in the real world, in your life too. So A stands, so M stands for media. A stands for area like the. [00:16:00] Physical space around you. And you know, for me, when I was competing, you know, I had my goals posted on my wall and I had a big poster of an Olympic gold medalist on my wall. And I, I had a training journal in log in top right hand drawer of my desk. You know, I had healthy food, healthy snacks around me. Like I had this optimized environment, this optimized space around me. And, and it’s the same in the real world. Like I’m, I’m talking to you right now from my standing desk, you know, I’ve gotta have food next to me. I’ve got my goals posted right here in front of me, like, You have to have this, this space around you that is optimized for success. Um, so that’s a, for area P stands for people already talked about people, that’s your coaches and your teammates, the people around you. And I know I’ve heard you talk about on your podcast before, Brett, like, and you know, being willing to invest in a coach. Like are people, are you actually willing to do that? And again, to use your example, Tom Brady, you know, Tom Brady has. Had coaches, right? He had strength coaches, right. Pretty sure he knew how to lift weights. You know, he had a nutrition coach. Pretty sure Tom Brady knew what to eat, but [00:17:00] he still had those people in his lifes pouring into him. That’s right. So that’s P for people. And then S is for speech. And that’s the language that we use. Really, this is a big part of the internal, internal environment of excellence. Like what’s the, what are the words I’m saying to myself? What are the, the words I’m saying out loud to others? Like, yeah, I can’t do it. Whoa, boy, what? Boy, this economy is really terrible. Boy, finding a job these days, or, uh, gosh, my boss, he’s really sucks. Like. Really? Are you gonna say that or are you gonna say, you know, there’s a lot of opportunity out there, boy, you know, down economy, a lot of people are, are, are looking this way. I’m gonna look that way. Like, where are the, the opportunities to change your language? Because everybody talks about attitude, have a great attitude. Well, what does that mean? Well, it starts with language and that’s, that’s the speech part. So those are the four areas, four parts of the environment of excellence. Yep. Brett Gilliland: And it’s, uh, funny you talked about your goals being around you. And I remember back, I’m 45 now, but when I was 23, I remember having my goals lily framed. In a, like a nice frame right next to my phone, cuz you know, back then man, I was [00:18:00] banging out 40, 50, a hundred phone calls a day just trying to find clients. Right. And so, yeah, I knew that when the times were tough I’m like, yeah, like I really wanna make this 58th phone call a day, or get told no for the 17 time. Right? It’s like, but those things in that frame were so important to me. Those are the things that kept me going. Right. And I think clarity around that is huge for us and and for me. Yeah. I’ve got my journal here that you can get on Amazon. Shameless plugged there, the future grade in your past journal. Um, but I have you write down every single day what your 90 day goals are every day. Right. So if I were to ask you, if you write down your goals every day for the next 90 days, is there a greater likelihood of you hitting those? Yes or no? Pretty Jim Harshaw Jr: hundred percent. There’s a greater chance of getting there. It’s just, it’s this small mindset shift. This is like this. I I, I love that Brett, by the way. I’m gonna check, I gotta check that out. That, that journal. I love that. Love that. You know, and you listen, I’m preaching to the choir with you, so, Writing those goals down has such an impact on, on your mindset and [00:19:00] sort of how you operate in the world. I’m gonna share a story with you. So there’s a guy by the name of Kyle Dke. Kyle Dake is, uh, he was a, a a a high school wrestler going to college to to Cornell University. He was a good high school wrestler. But not like he was not going to sort of win the national championship his freshman year or anything ridiculous like that. No, but so his mom and dad drop him off at Cornell University, drop him off at school, and they, and his mom hands him a journal and says, Kyle, write down your goal on this journal. Go, you know, write your goals down in there. He said, okay. So he, he wrote down his goal, mom and dad dropped him off, and then he wrote down his goal. He said, Kyle Dke, 2009, 141 pound NCAA champion. He wrote that down that, that, that night, and then the next morning he woke up and he did it again. The next night. That night he did it again. Same thing every morning and every night. Every single morning, every single night national champion, and he won the national championship his freshman year, which is crazy. That doesn’t happen very often, right in the sport of wrestling. [00:20:00] Next year he bumps up weight class. And he writes down his goal now, twice in the morning, twice at night. Hmm. Every day. Goes on to win the national championship again. Third year, bumps up another weight class three writes his goals down three times in the morning. You see this is going at night? Yep. Wins another championship fourth year, four times in the morning, four times at night. He becomes the first person in the history of college wrestling to win four national championships. Each won in a different weight class. It mind blowing. I mean, freaking incredible. Here’s the thing, like who, like, who does it? It’s kind of, it’s ridiculous. Like who writes their goals down every morning? Every, I mean, that’s absurd. It’s a little bit crazy. Well, right. Is it because this is what world class performers do, right? Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I can’t agree more. What was, I gotta look at this guy. What’s his, what’s his name again? Kyle Jim Harshaw Jr: Dke. He’s now a world champion also, Brett Gilliland: by the way, how you spell Kyle? D a k e. Just like it would sound okay. That’s amazing. Good for that guy. [00:21:00] Uh, I thought that’s where you’re gonna go. I’m like, no way. The dude bumps up one a year and does that. So every single year, what, um, what would I find for you? I’m, I’m always, uh, you know, I’m inspired by people that have normal habits and rituals that they keep every day. Um, but what are the ones? If I followed you around with the camera, I would see are no miss items for you every day. But also if we can be transparent and vulnerable, which I know you can be. What, what’s the hardest one? Even though you still do it, what’s the hardest one for you to do Jim Harshaw Jr: daily? Yeah, so for me, I always, I always talk to my clients about core habits and it’s sleep, nutrition, and exercise. So if you just start with those, if you get those things right. A lot of other things are gonna be easier for you, right? The consistency, whether it’s making the sales calls or, you know, being patient and present when you’re home with the family and kids, or being productive at work, whatever it is. Like, if you can, if you can get [00:22:00] close or, or, or nail those core habits every day, then you’re gonna have a 50% head start on just about everybody else. Yeah. So for me it’s those right, you know, Especially the exercise and the nutrition. So for me, you know, I mentioned this three group, whether it’s that or, or going or running. I do a lot. I work out a lot. And, and so for me, like I. It brings a lot of confidence. I feel better physically and mentally, psychologically, I just feel so much better when, when I work out. So that’s, that’s a big one for me. And then the other one is, is on the nutrition side, is, you know, I just, just before a call, I finished a big salad. Like I, I don’t eat junk food. Especially during the workday, you know, I, and I slept and I don’t always eat perfect. I’m not like, so I’m not trying to be some, some, some guru who’s sitting on top of a mountain saying I’m perfect, but I do eat right and, and I put the right fuel in my body cuz it makes me feel good. And I actually thought about like your audience, Brett, as I’m sitting here talking to you on the Circuit of Success podcast, I’m thinking I need to be ready and, [00:23:00] and on top of my game and not feeling like crap when I show up with this podcast episode. So those are the things that I mean, gosh, you know, I wake up at. Five o’clock, a little bit before five o’clock, and it’s painful every freaking day. I’m not a mor gets it. Never was easier. Never. It doesn’t get easier, you know, and, and that is why this environment of excellence is so critical, like, My clients are, they’re in a community of other people who are doing hard things. Yep. And when you’re around these people doing a hard thing just is kind of the norm. Like, like, like my wife thinks I’m cra I’m running a a, a trail half marathon, Spartan race this weekend. And she thinks I’m crazy and extreme. I’m like, Uhuh, I, I just, I work out, I worked out this morning with a 63 year old guy who just ran Boston in 3 28. Um, yo. There, there’s, um, uh, another guy, I mean, this is, I’m not even anywhere close to like the, the crazy fit guy in my workout group, but it’s like there’s [00:24:00] stamps and, and again, I’m part of a mastermind in group of entrepreneurs. Like there’s some really incredible entrepreneurs in this group. I’m not the smartest guy in the room, but when I’m around those people, it, it raises my level. So those are the hard thing. Like you wanna, if you wanna do hard things, if you wanna get yourself to do hard things, you’re like, I wanna do the hard thing, but I can’t do it. I can’t seem to get up early and, and do the extra work. I can’t seem to stay focused at work, like, can’t seem to, you know, make that 58th sales call, get around other people who are making, you know, 75 sales call sales calls a day. All of a sudden, 58 feels like, okay, this is like table stakes. You know, I gotta dial it up here. Brett Gilliland: I love that. Yeah, it is man. It is who you surround yourself with. And I think about, for me, it’s exercise is, you know, getting back after it. So in August of last year, I said, you know what, man, I’m tired of, of not holding myself accountable to exercise to the level I need it to be, right? So I, I focus again on my journal on 90 day goals. And so one of those for this 90 days, April, may, right, those, those April, may, [00:25:00] June, those three months, Ex, right. E o p exercise on purpose, right? And, and it may not mean something to somebody else, but for me there’s meaning behind that, right? I know if I went and I just kind of half-assed it or if I went and worked out right? And so for our accountability, it was 13 guys in a group text. People listen to this every week are probably harder tired of hearing me talk about it. But I think you gotta hear something nine times before it sets in. And so, Get that accountability group of people around you. That’s what I’m hearing you say nonstop is you gotta show up at whatever, five or five 30 in the morning and have people there that are running marathons at, you know, 60 something years old. Right. Surround yourself with better people, but also be the leader of that man. If you don’t have an organization you can go do, I think you got friends and so right when, when the wintertime came and it was cold and we didn’t wanna meet in my backyard, you had to send a picture at 6:00 AM. Right. So now guess what happens? It works so well. You start to fade off a little bit and somebody texted me on Thursday of last week, Hey, get the text chain going again, right? So now we’re [00:26:00] back. Right now we’re back. We’re gonna get it going. So I just think when you hear me say that, like what, what do you, what comes outta that for you? What do you hear? Jim Harshaw Jr: I was, I’m working with a CEO of a company right now and, and we were on a call with his executive team and he said, Sometimes we get so good at something that we stop doing it. And it like really struck with why in the hell do I do that? Yeah, right. You like, and so one of my favorite coaching questions with people is what has worked, like, what has worked, what has worked for you and for the listener. You know, whether it’s in, in your business and you’re trying to level up or you know, you know, trying to grow your business or, or get that promotion or become a leader or, you know, get healthier or fix your relationship or whatever it is. Like, simply ask yourself the question, what has. Worked. If you a, if you answer the question, what has worked? You might say, well, this worked in my business life. Well, okay, well how can you then take that to your, your relationship at home? Right. Or if [00:27:00] this worked in my, my health and fitness, you know, being on the text thread with a bunch of people. Yeah, okay. How do I, maybe, maybe I can apply that to my bi. Who do I know that needs to make the 58 phone calls a day? Who do I know that needs to do that? Let’s, let’s freaking create a text thread with them. Like do those things and. So these are, these are questions, right? That, that, that bring us this sort of clarity, just simply answering the question, what has worked? And I used to always ask on my podcast, I would say, um, you know, interviewed, you know, the Tim Ferris’s of the world and Jack Canfield and Ken Blanchard’s, and on and on, Shannon Miller, Olympic Gold medalist, et cetera. And I would always say, what’s the one habit you most credit for your success? And you would assume that for the Olympic gold medalist it was some kind of training habit, or you would think that the New York Times bestseller would say it was some kind of, some kind of writing habit, but it was never what you would expect. It was always some version of working with a coach, working with a [00:28:00] mentor, journaling, uh, doing some kind of retreat or stepping back in their life and evaluating and. And so I’ve, I’ve claimed a term for this. I call it the productive pause. The productive pause. And a productive pause is, is this. So here’s the definition of it. A productive pause is a short period of focus, reflection around specific questions that leads to clarity of action and peace of mind. Clarity of action and peace of mind. Like that’s what we all want, and it, it doesn’t come from doing the same thing today for no better reason than that’s what we did yesterday and doing the same thing tomorrow for no better reason than that’s what we did today. No, you can’t do that. You have to hit the productive pause. You have to hit the pause button and do this productive pause. You ask yourself questions, what has worked? Or you buy a journal. Yours, Brett, and, and, and it forces you to do that productive pause every day. When you open the journal, you write down your goals, and I’m sure there’s some questions in there that are bringing people clarity of action, peace of mind, [00:29:00] setting them on the right course for the day. Yeah. So for the listener, you have to carve this time out. You know, like when I think back to my wrestling life, you know, if you asked me what was the most, one important one hour. That I spent the entire wrestling season. It wasn’t in the weight room, it wasn’t in the training room or wrestling room, practice room. It wasn’t watching film. It was the one hour that I spent with my coaches at the beginning of the season where we mapped out the season, we set my goals, we identified different things and, and you know, strengths and weaknesses like that one hour set the course for the whole year. So that is a productive pause. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, I love that. And it’s funny you say that about the Olympic athletes. I had one on Annie Koons and she said she was the heptathlete and you know, which is probably the most in shape, you know, Olympic there is to do all of those things. And so she said, you know, I’m like, pen and paper, right? I’m ready to rock. She’s gonna gimme the secret sauce. She’s like, uh, mindfulness, like meditation, you know, five to 10 minutes a day. And [00:30:00] I practice gratitude. Three things I’m thankful for. I’m like, you know, that’s it. Come on. Like, it’s Jim Harshaw Jr: so true. The shake, like, what’s the magic ingredient that I’m supposed to put in my smoothie? Right. Or, you know, what’s the pill that I gotta take? It’s like, no, it’s like mindfulness, gratitude. Like what? Like that’s the secret. Yes, that’s the secret. But here’s the deal. Like, are you doing it right? You know, like the, the secret is like writing down your goals every morning and every night. Like Kyle Dick, like, do you have these habits? You can listen to a podcast like yours. But unless you’re actually taking action and doing the work, I mean that, that’s, none of this stuff works as you know, Brett, none of this works unless you actually do it. Brett Gilliland: Yep, a hundred percent. So let’s talk about the, um, I always joked that I’ve got a, a man or woman who, my mine’s a man. I’m a guy that, that sets in my shoulder. The woman listening could have that woman on her shoulder that, that says, one thing, you can do this, man. Go get it, Brett. You got it. Take the world over, you know? And then you got the person over here that sometimes can be just a little bit taller, right? And [00:31:00] they’re saying, man, who the hell do you think you are? Right? Like, why do you think you can do that? How do you personally, I. Help yourself through those moments of that self-defeating thinking. Jim Harshaw Jr: Yeah. First of all, thank you for assuming that I have it and that everybody has it, because we all do. And you know, so it’s so easy to, to look at other people and think, oh, it’s just easier for them and Right. Success just comes easy. They don’t have the self-doubt. It’s like no BS man. It’s like everybody, everybody has that. And you know, I, I, like I said, I grew up in a small town. I was a small kid. I was a small thinker, and success was for other people. And so I really had to wrestle with that for a long time. Not, you know, no pun intended. No pun intended, but yeah. And. I, you know, I, I went through my, I went through my wrestling career being afraid of failing. Mm. [00:32:00] And I, I got to the point where at the end of my junior year, I, you know, I’ve been wrestling for 16 years. I’ve been competing for 16 years and I’m now a junior in college. And, and you know, my, my goal is to be an All-American, right? I get to college and, and I actually red shirted my first year. And, uh, so for those who aren’t familiar with college sports, you get five years to do four years of competition. You can take one red shirt year where you still train with the team and that sort of thing. And I trained with the team my freshman year and kind of matured and grew, got a little stronger and. By the time I actually rolled around to my, my red shirt freshman year, my, my second year in college. But my, my really, my freshman year of, of competition, I made the starting lineup and I set my goal to be an All-American. And the first thing you have to do is get to the national championships. I qualified for the national championships as a freshman in college and I was like, holy, I got there, but I failed. Failed to become an All American. You have to win four matches sophomore year. Again, I got to the national championships again. I failed [00:33:00] junior year. I. Pretty much a repeat of the prior two years. I get to the national championships and I fall short of my goal and I failed, and I go to the locker room and I remember just burning my face in a towel in tears, thinking, what’s wrong with me? Like, am I not good enough? Am I not smart enough? Am I not capable enough? Like maybe it’s just not in the cards for me. Like what? Maybe I shouldn’t set my goal so high and, and I. I decided to dedicate my off season to figuring out what I was missing because like, I couldn’t work harder there. Like there’s not more miles hours in the day, right? I couldn’t run more miles, I couldn’t lift more weights, couldn’t watch more film. There’s not more I could do. And so I set my, my entire off season. My goal is to, to get with as many world-class performance as possible and figure out like, what am I missing? Like, do I need to. Better techniques in the top position. Do I need to lift, you know, get my legs stronger? Do I gotta get better? Like what is the, what do I need to do? And so I got, you know, I got to, I worked wrestling camps as a camp counselor [00:34:00] at all these wrestling camps and they would bring in, you know, Olympic gold medalists and national championship coaches and I would pick their brains. And the whole off season goes by heading into the senior, my senior year. It’s the night before the first competition. And we’re sitting, I’m sitting in a hotel. In Morgantown, West Virginia the night before the West Virginia University opened, and, and it hits me. I never figured it out. Like I never figured out what it is that I was missing. And I’m thinking to myself, well, all I can do is all I can do, I, I gave up on the outcome. I gave up on becoming an All-American and I said, all I’m gonna do is all I can do. I can’t, like I said, run more miles, lift more weights, watch more film. I can’t do more. So everything I have, I’m gonna put into this. And at the end of the season, if I get onto the podium, great. If I don’t, I have to be okay with that. And putting down that baggage, that fear of failure, that doubt, that little voice [00:35:00] on, on the side of that, that that voice on the side, on my shoulder. Shoulder, it became irrelevant. I was able to put down that fear, put down that doubt, and just go be free and actually compete to the best of my abilities. And I went, woke up, and the next day I went out and I dominated the competition. I went five and oh, won the championship and I had more fun than I’d ever had wrestling in my career, my entire career. And I went through the entire season the same way and I lost matches. But I had a great season. Got onto the podium at the national championship. I got to matter of fact, at the national championships, I, I win, I won three matches. Now I gotta win one more match to become an All-American, and I gotta wrestle the fourth ranked guy in the country. He’s on the number one ranked team in the country, university of Minnesota. There’s 15,000 people in the arena. And my life essentially to this point, comes down to this, it, the seven minutes, the seven minute match. And you know, you wanna think to yourself like, oh, hey, this, this is the oneand, this, I’ve gotta, I’ve gotta perform my best. I gotta give everything, I gotta give 110%. It’s like, no, you [00:36:00] don’t. You don’t. You just gotta show up and give everything you’ve got, and if that’s enough, great. If it’s not enough, that’s irrelevant. What’s really relevant is that you put everything you’ve got into it, and you don’t leave anything on the mat. Like you just leave it all out there. And that’s what I did. I doubted him. I I won the match and, and I became an All-American. And in so many times we listened to that voice of doubt that’s on our shoulders, that voice that’s saying, I told you so. You can’t do this. You’re not good enough, you’re not smart enough, you’re not capable enough. I, but we have to follow. We have to follow Steven Covey’s advice, seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Start with the end in mind. Okay? I’m not saying you can’t, shouldn’t have goals. This is critical to, to success is having the goal, creating the vision. This is what the vision of success looks like. Now I’m gonna work backwards. I’m gonna create the process. I’m gonna create the environment of excellence. I’m gonna get around the right people. All this. And I’m gonna let go of the outcome and just fully be, [00:37:00] just be in the moment, be present. Give it everything you’ve got in that sales presentation, in that job interview, in that Spartan race, whatever it might be, just. Be show up and do everything you can because that’s all you can do. And that’s how I deal then and still deal with that little voice that’s on my shoulder. Yeah, that voice of doubt. So Brett Gilliland: let’s talk about that. So I, I gave a talk last week at a university and, um, these students, and it was a, um, you know, a great group of young, you know, seem to be professionals and all this stuff. And, but we talked about, and, and I. I said some things that I look back now and I’m thinking, you know what? That’s, that’s right. Today where I’m at at 45, but it wasn’t what I was doing when I was their age. So when I was a young professional, I would say I was pretty good at thinking big. Believing big and doing things at a younger age that I probably shouldn’t have been doing. [00:38:00] Meaning that I, I just, I was just dumb enough to not think, well, I, of course I can go do this. I know I’m 26 years old. I can go be a managing director and be successful and Yeah, and do this, and so, But then when, as I’ve gotten older, I look at, I wanna set realistic goals. Like if I’m struggling with exercise, I don’t wanna say, all right, you know, tomorrow I’m gonna start and we’re gonna work out seven days a week, and it’s just gonna continue to happen. It’s like, no, let’s start with the Tuesday and Thursday with the accountability group text message, right? Let’s just go twice. And so it was a good awareness for me this weekend to think, gosh, which one is it? Is it think big, believe big, dream big, set these big, you know, hairy, audacious goals as people call ’em? Or is it good to be realistic? And I think, man, it really depends on where you’re at in life. Right. So when you hear me say that, what are your thoughts between the twenties year olds, right? Yeah. The Brett’s and, and, and, and you and I going out there as, as 25 year olds versus say, 45 year olds. Where’s Brett and Jim at, on that level? Jim Harshaw Jr: Yeah. Yeah. It’s this weird dichotomy of, [00:39:00] of both and, you know, Jocko Willink wrote a great book. The, the Dichotomy of Leadership and, and looking at kind of both sides of leadership. And it’s, it’s the same in this, in in goals. It’s, it’s, Like I said, start with the end in mind, but also give up on the outcome. You know? Yeah. Those seem to be opposites, but they’re not. They have, you have to have them both. Right, and, and you know, you have to have, you know, the big hairy, audacious, audacious goal. I shouldn’t say you have to, by the way. I’ll come back and, and reframe that in a second. But if you have that big, hairy, audacious goal, it also starts with one step. It also starts with. Habits, right? Whether it’s the, the mindset habits or, or the, the, the, how many times you pick up the phone and dial every day or whatever those habits are that are gonna get you from where you’re at to where you want to go. Um, but everybody, and, and we, we approach this in my coaching program cuz we coach the whole person, um, from wealth and career to relationships and health. Like, some people just have it dialed in, in some areas, [00:40:00] right? They don’t need any help in their marriage and their health. They’re like, I just need business advice, career advice. Find, like, I just want to dial it up there. Right? I’m, I wanna go from good to great in that area. Great. We help you. If, if maybe it’s, maybe it’s your health, maybe it’s like, man, I just, you know, I’m crushing it. I’m, I’m, you know, making seven figures plus, and, and you know, my marriage is great, but man, I just can’t seem to get consistent in my workouts. It’s like, okay, let’s, let’s, let’s dial it up there. You don’t need the B H A G in, in the other areas, or like, you, you have to figure out like, what does the B H A G look like for you? And, and I’m actually, my, my retreat, my client retreat this coming weekend is, is called, uh, the limitless life. Like what does that look like for you? It’s, you know, every, actually today everybody’s work, pre-work. They’re, they’re the work they have to do before the, the, the actual event. It’s due today. And I can’t wait to read them because it’s gonna be different for everybody. Every, it’s gonna be different. I have people who are, you know, published authors and, you know, uh, uh, you know, [00:41:00] multi-millionaires and they’re, they’re, you know, neurosurgeons and professional athletes and, and people on, you know, the other end of the spectrum. And it’s just, It’s different. I shouldn’t even say that end of the spectrum. It’s just they’re at a different place in, in their lives, right? Where their families are, where their, their health is, where their wealth is. Um, so you like, I, you know, you wanna give a prescription, but it’s really different for everybody. But it goes back to, if you can go back to what’s the vision for my life? What are my values? Yeah. What are the goals that align with those values? Then you can map that out. So what’s, Brett Gilliland: uh, what’s something that’s disrupting right now in the world and you hear a lot about like, chat beat G P T and you think about, you know, artificial intelligence and we’re sending people up into outer space and rockets coming back. Like what is it for you kind of turning the page a little bit of this stuff and just kinda free flowing some things? What is it Yeah. Of those that you think will actually disrupt the most for the everyday man or woman? [00:42:00] Jim Harshaw Jr: Have you messed with AI? Might, or at least chat gpt, have you messed with with that much? Yeah, I Brett Gilliland: have. I’ve, I’ve messed with it a fair amount and uh, yeah, but you know, it just doesn’t seem authentic and real to me. Like, you know, I could have it go out and write a 500 page article, you know, on, you know, social security and taxes and all this stuff, and I’m sure it’d do a great job, but just. For me, it doesn’t seem, in, in my world, the world I live in with clients and, and people and their lives. It doesn’t seem authentically real. Jim Harshaw Jr: Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. I, I totally agree. Um, it is, it know it’s gonna be a game changer. I mean, I think in ways that we can’t even predict. Yeah. Just like the internet, you know, we couldn’t, we couldn’t, you couldn’t have predicted back in the, I dunno, in the nineties, the, the impact that the internet would have on us today, but, um, But art, I think artificial intelligence is, is the game changer. I’m actually working on a, uh, I can’t, I can’t really share it right now. It’s not open. But a a an AI version, um, [00:43:00] of, of something that’s gonna be, it’s gonna be a game changer. Um, but, uh, um, it’s funny Brett Gilliland: you say the, the intelligence. I was listening to a podcast the other day and they said, you know, think about when the internet came out. You could type in anything and get information. Right. There’s artificial information and there’s artificial intelligence. Yeah. And it’s like now we’re gonna take that all the information in the world and then be able, everybody’s gonna be smarter, right? If you know how to use it and you know what you’re looking for and all that, and you adapt it into your world, This person was talking about how the world is going to be much more intelligent. Uh, which I hope so. Um, yeah, I think that’ll be pretty crazy if, if, if you use the right way. Jim Harshaw Jr: Yeah. If you use the right way. And, you know, I use it a ton for not so much content creation. I do a little bit for content creation. It’ll, my assistant will use it to help. Do a first draft of, say, a podcast description, you know? Yeah. So we’ll use that to kinda get us 50% or 75% of the way there, and then we go put our, our touch [00:44:00] on it. Um, I’ll use it to do research on, on guests for podcasts to help me sort of formulate, uh, conversation topics. Again, you know, we, we will, we’ll create a ton of it and then we’ll sift through it and, and pick out what we, like, combine things, delete a lot of things, uh, and put our own touch and, and, and spin on it. But, um, you know, even. Creating images, you know, you can, you can have a, create a, an any image that you want, which is scary in the sense that, you know, people are creating images that, of things, of events that never happened and, and saying they’ve happened. Brett Gilliland: So there’s, so tell me more about that. How do you create, what kind of image are you creating? Jim Harshaw Jr: So you could create, um, um, Well, here’s an example. I, I, I, I have a t-shirt I created from for the Success Through Failure podcast. And so went into chat, G P T said, here’s, you know, here’s what my brand is, here’s what my podcast is. Um, I. Or creating a t-shirt. Uh, give me five different descriptions of a t-shirt and it can describe, and you say, okay, uh, pick which one you like and you kind of like talk back [00:45:00] and forth to it. You know, refine number three and delete number four, and add to number five, whatever. And then, you know, you pick which one you like, and then you take that over to something called Mid Journey. And Mid journey is just another ai. And you could say, okay, uh, create me a graphic, uh, with this description that you’re copied and copied and paste it from chat gpt. Chat. G p t is like, is is like, um, you know, the, the sort of very basic, sort of entry level, sort of like, that’s just the thing that most people know and talk about, but there’s all these other tools out there that are, that you, you, that you can use and conjunction with chat, gp, pt or are totally separately that take that and just amplify. I, I’m, I’m like, I’m such a beginner at this, but like, uh, you know, I’ve gotten into this, this, this with this individual who’s creating a pretty amazing company around this. Um, yeah, again, it’s, it’s, I’m in this mastermind group. I mentioned this mastermind group that I’m part of this, these entrepreneurs, and oh my goodness, the, the, what they’re doing [00:46:00] with AI is just mind blowing. Um, stuff that I don’t even know, I didn’t even realize was possible. So, yeah, Brett Gilliland: it is crazy, man. It’s gonna be a, uh, it definitely is gonna be a game changer. There’s no doubt about that. Yes. It’s just, uh, hopefully it’s in the right hands and gonna be used for what it’s hopefully meant to be used for. Right. That’s, that’s the other scary part. So, so Jim, where can our listeners find more of you? Jim Harshaw Jr: So if you Google my name Jim Haw Jr. Jim Haw on any social media platform, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, you’ll find me. Um, and I love to connect with people. So, you know, and you can find my podcast Success through Failure. Uh, just published episode 400, not not long ago. So for, for quite a while. Um, again, you know, Navy Seals and Olympic Gold medalists, you know, a lot of similar guests as yours and, and we always pull back the curtain and say, tell me about a time when you failed. Certainly we’re getting there. Habits and tactics for success, but also like, tell me about a time when you failed. Tell me about a time when, when you know things weren’t so rosy for you. When there’s some dark times and, and it’s amazing when you pull back the curtain. [00:47:00] Failure is actually not something that they’re immune to or that they don’t actually have to go through it. It’s something that. They go through maybe more so than, than the average person. Yeah. Because they continue to get up one more time every time to get to the other side or whatever their goal is. So that’s really, um, the, the crux of the Success Through Failure podcast is, you know, it’s the only show that reveals the true nature of success. So it’s on any pod podcast platform. You can check it out there, uh, or you can go to jim harsha jr.com/apply. And, uh, and you can, you know, jump on a free one-on-one coaching call with me and I can talk about how to implement this framework that I talked about earlier into your life. Brett Gilliland: I love it, man. We’ll put all this in the show notes below and uh, also on our YouTube page. So check that out. And, uh, Jim, man, it’s been awesome having you and thanks so much for sharing your wisdom on the circuit of Jim Harshaw Jr: success. Likewise, Brett. Great meeting you. Thanks for having me on.[00:48:00]