The Circuit of Success Podcast with Brett Gilliland

On this episode of Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Nick Hutchison about his approach to reading, goal planning, and daily routines. Nick explains his SMART goal framework and how he quantifies his goals in an activity tracker. He also emphasizes the importance of failure and iteration in achieving success and recommends three books that have had a major impact on his life. Join Nick’s active community on Instagram, Book Thinkers, and learn how to choose, take notes, retain, and implement the knowledge from books. https://youtu.be/5OG1lzj4-GA Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilliland. I’ve got Nick Hutchison with me, Nick. What’s going on? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Brett, I’m excited for the conversation. Can I ask you question number one? Speaker Brett Gilliland: You may. Speaker Nick Hutchison: What is your favorite book of all time? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, what is my favorite book of all time? I always tell people the rhythm of life by Matthew Kelly. That is my favorite book and, it was book I got recommended gash probably twelve years ago, maybe. And, it was a game changer for me. So that would be it. The rhythm of life of Matthew Kelly. What do you think? Speaker Nick Hutchison: I love it. Here we just. We just Oh, I haven’t I haven’t read that book yet. I do own a Matthew Kelly book. It’s not that one. And it was a book that I had read a number of years ago, but, I love to hear it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Yeah. It’s a great book, man. So check it out. So you are, the force behind book thinkers people that listen to podcasts, they hear me talk about, you know, every day reading ten pages minimally. That’ll get me around twenty four to twenty five books a year. Which I know I just interviewed somebody yesterday and he had read eighty five books. I’m like, okay, I feel like a total schmuck now. But anyway, twenty four to twenty five books a year is pretty good for me, but Anyway, that’s what I like to do. Our people connected with your people, and, now here we are. So if we can, but we dive into all this great stuff, Nick, I always ask the question is, what has made you the man you are today? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Well, I was not much of a reader growing up with would super they can see the background. So I’ve got, like, a thousand books behind me, and I read about a hundred books a year. Wow. When I was going into my senior year of college, I took an internship at a local software company, and My boss at the time, he recognized that I had about a one hour commute each way. And he said to me something like, Nick, listening to the same playlist the same music for the one thousandth time. Like, it’s not gonna get you closer to where you wanna be in life. But the right, personal development podcast might And so that’s how I started. I started by listening to podcasts. And what I noticed was that so many of the successful people being interviewed, they gave at least some credit for their success to the books that they were reading. And so that’s what made me the man I am today. I started consuming personal development books. I started reading about every problem I had, every skill I wanted to develop, I started reading about the world’s best at everything, health, wealth, in Gilliland I started to input something from Ren. Here I am about ten years later, five hundred books in and You can’t stop me now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome, man. It’s true. I I call it windshield university. It’s, you know, we have so much time in our cars whether you’re commuting or driving you know, whatever you’re doing. You know, let’s let’s get another university. Let’s get another degree. Right? And so I think it’s it’s huge. So here’s my question for you on the, you know, read a hundred books already this year, I think you said, is how, like, how are you doing that number one and how are you committing the time to it with a, you know, with a busy schedule? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Well, I like to start by asking people this. So sometimes people will tell me, like, hey, I can’t read. And I love to say, If I paid you ten thousand dollars to read a book by the end of the month, do you think you could do it? And they’re like, Yes. Well, I could read five in that case. And so it’s not a question of whether or not we can read. It’s a question of whether or not we value it enough to prioritize it in our calendar. So for me, not only is it my full time job now, which helps me to promote books for authors. But I value it. I value it more than Netflix, more than social media. I value it more than a lot of things that other people spend their time doing. I’m always looking to serve my future self. I’m always looking to remove pain and solve problems. I’m looking to develop skills and get closer to my potential. So that’s how I’m able to prioritize it and find so much time. And just like you talked about, ten to twenty pages a day, that’s twenty five books a year, even for beginner. So, yeah, it’s it’s a great way to make it happen. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Because I, you know, I hear people all the time when I talk about my ten pages thing. Like, oh, I don’t have time, and and but I think you’re right. It’s a priority. You know, so I I have it whether it’s in the middle of the day I gotta get it in. It’s usually it’s first thing in the morning. It’s about one of the first things I do. And so I’ve just made it a habit. I think that we’ve got to. And the things that I’ve learned and even the thoughts that come into my mind about something, whatever’s going on in my life in that situation, this thing I’m reading over here will help fertilize that. Right? And you just add some water to it and then that thing starts to grow. And for me, it’s thinking it’s journaling and spending time on it. So I’m curious because one of your passions and one of the things I wrote down in here is your new book rise of the reader, which comes out November first. Plug intended. We’ll talk about that later, but you you really dive in the strategies for mastering your reading habits. But then also applying what you learn. So I’m curious on how we do that. How do we apply what we’ve learned when we read every day? Speaker Nick Hutchison: There are so many different strategies for application that we can talk about, but I think it all starts in the in the early stages of your reading process. So for me, one of the things that I found myself doing that most other people don’t do is I set an intention for each book that I read. And my intention follows the smart goal framework. So it’s specific. It’s measurable. It’s attainable. It’s irrelevant to my life. To my lips, I’m emotionally connected, and it’s time bound. So one of the books that A lot of people are reading right now in the world of business is titled hundred million dollar leads, by Alex or Mozy. And they’re it’s a book on lead generation and they’re just hoping that it’s going to change their life. And so instead, I say set a smart goal. Set an intention for the book, something like find and implement at least two lead generation strategies for my business by the end of October. And then review that intention each time you read a few more pages so that you can tell your brain what to filter for. Find and implement at least two lead generation strategies. Now you’ll be able to accurately identify them within the book, and the book can help you solve your problems. I think it all starts with setting an intention and have that attention based on taking action. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I love that because that’s what we do with our clients. You know, we’re in a wealth management space, and it’s it’s they’d be like us saying, hey, just come in, and we’re just gonna start saving money with no intention on where going and no goal, that would be crazy. Right? And so I’ve never really thought of it that way as to have an intention for the book. I’m a big highlighter. Right? Like, to highlight the books. I like to read the actual book, not, you know, on my iPad or something like that. And so so how do you for people that maybe don’t have that discipline built today, they’re not doing the ten pages, they’re not reading a hundred books a year. What advice would you have for them to take action and start making it part of their life. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. I would say pause for five minutes before you start the book. And at this point, you should know what the book is about and set a goal set a goal to implement at least one thing from the book. So by the time you’re finished with the book, you’ve highlighted a few potential actions that you can take with your highlighter just like you talk about. And look at those actions, write them down rewriting your favorite takeaways as a form of repetition Gilliland repetition leads to our attention. So look at these potential takeaways and say, which one of these is going to lead to most of the change that I’m looking at create. Take action on it. There’s a Napoleon Hill quote that I love. It says action is the real measure of intelligence. It’s not sitting back and debating things and having a great vocabulary. It’s the person who chooses to implement what they have learned creates a behavior change, turns it into a habit, and then wakes up as a wildly different person ten years from now. And so that’s it. Just one thing from every single book that you read. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And are you writing those down? Are you are you a writer downer guy? Are you a journal guy? Like, how are you how are you doing that? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. So, typically, I will let’s say I read a book on lead generation using that example, and I’ve set an intention to find and implement at least two things. I’ll probably fifteen potentials. So at the end of the book, I go through and I reread those fifteen things that I highlight. And I will rewrite all of them into a list. And I’ll say, here are the potential actions that I can take. What twenty percent of these will create eighty percent the change that I’m looking for. The highest leveraged activities, not every activity is created equal. And then I I mean, and I detail all this in the book. It would get a little bit complicated to try to explain about. I have an activity tracker that I will plug those activities in And I’ll set a goal to implement that by the end of the week or in the next two weeks or three weeks. And so it gets rewritten into a second place But, yeah, I think that writing with the pen in your hand, it’s multi sensory. It’s visual. You can feel it happening. And again, repetition leads to retention. So you wanna rewrite it a couple of times once on paper, second time into my tracker. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. So if we’re not reading, are you would you call yourself a big goal planner? Just again, eliminate the reading side of this thing. Are you a huge, huge goal planner? Speaker Nick Hutchison: I would say, yes. I have been over the last ten years. I’m probably a little bit less today than I was. No. You know what? No. Scratch that. Yes. I am. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Let’s define that. How are you a huge gold planner? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Well, everything’s quantified in my life. And I I will say, that doesn’t sound fun, but Jocko Willink said it best. Gilliland creates freedom. Discipline equals freedom. And so by defining my goals in my activity tracker for every week, and my goals are related to everything, not just business. So goals around Gilliland the gym and fitness and diet, goals around my relationship, certain number of date nights every week, etcetera. Goals around my business and my personal finances and things like that. Everything’s quantified because without measurement, you don’t know if you’re making progress. I see you have to stand your and where you’re at. And so I set goals, incremental improvements. I set annual goals for my business and we track against them. I mean, I have all sorts of goals. So, yeah, I’m definitely a goal planner. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I love it. What what what have you learned about a disappointment slash failure slash you know, swinging and missing all that stuff from the business world. Talk you know, we talk about success all the time on the circuit of success, but let’s talk about this circuit of failure too because I know for me some of my toughest times have been my best learnings. So what what are some of those that you feel like sharing today? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Well, I’ve learned that the US public education system has it backwards because when I was younger, I was taught that failure was a bad thing. I was taught to avoid failure, avoid criticism, and I was never really coached. Right? But then I started playing sports. And in sports, when you make an error, or you have an issue, or you miss a block or whatever, your coach comes over and tells you how to handle it better next time. And I think that’s what happens in business. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Fail and you and you iterate, you make progress. And so I’ve learned that failure’s the best. Failure’s amazing. If you feel fast and you feel a hard at full speed, and you’re always changing direction and iterating. Like, that’s where the magic happens. And, you know, that’s why my business has grown so much over the last couple of years. Speaker Brett Gilliland: When you look at your growth and you look at the talking about the funnels and the leads and and all that stuff, I mean, one branding’s important. But number two, how are you getting out there and making sure people are seeing your stuff? Like, what what’s the secret sauce in there, if you will, to help people learn from you and and how you’ve grown your business. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. We do about a million organic impressions a month on Instagram right now. And it’s because we create valuable content. I think that’s the hack. I you you have to be of service and you have to provide value to your audience. I mean, on top of that, at, I’m network with a lot of names in the space. And so I sort of borrow their credibility, and I display that in front of my community, and you know, they’re re sharing content and we’re providing value to them. So that kinda helps a lot. You know, getting in front of an audience that’s already been created that sort of mirrors your audiences is a good way to make that happen too. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I saw that. You had, people on your podcast, Grant Cardone Lewis House, Alex Armozy. I mean, those are some big names. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. Absolutely. So we just try to provide value to those guys and then in return, try to get in front of their audience a little bit. As a result. And, they all have big audiences, and they spend a lot of money to build those audiences. So it’s a great way to get in front of more people. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what you asked me about my favorite book? I’ll I’ll ask you that question here in a second, but I find myself if I’m not engaged in a book, I I I committed in April two thousand sixteen to start reading cover to cover because I was the guy that had the book on the nightstand I’d read twenty, thirty pages. It’s kinda bored, and then it would stay the nightstand for a while, then it goes in the drawer, and then you never see the book again. Right? I’m like, I’m done with this. I gotta read cover to cover. So I find myself sometimes struggling with reading a full book if I’m not totally engaged with it. And I still do it, but it takes me longer than I should, and that’s probably why I don’t read more books. So what is your process like with that? If you’re forty pages in and the book sucks in your opinion, what are you doing with it? Speaker Nick Hutchison: There’s a a great rule called the rule of one hundred. So it says, take the number one hundred, subtract your age, And that’s how many pages you have to read before you can put down a book. So for me, I’m twenty nine. I have to read at least seventy one pages before I can put down a bad book. It’s just a rule of framework to make sure that you kinda stay consistent. The older you get, the less you have to read because the wiser you have become. So I think about it like that. I think life is too short to read a bad book and to force yourself all the way through it. I used to read cover to cover every single word, realize, like, I’m not optimizing for finishing a book. That’s not the goal. The goal is to implement something. And if this book isn’t gonna be it for me, like, I thought it was gonna solve a problem, and it’s clearly not going to. Like, I’ve given my my self the space to move on these days. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. I like that. So I gotta read fifty five pages in a book basically before I give up on it. Yep. Speaker Nick Hutchison: There you go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s about where I’m at anyway. I’m forty five. So fifty five. We’re good to go. Yeah, but it’s in this, like, man, it sucks. I want that book. I, you know, I put them all in my bookshelf I’ve got them labeled to the year they are, and, you know, I wanna read it cover to cover, and now I gotta do I just wasted my time. You know, it’s I’m competitive, and I like to check the box that I’ve read that book. Any good apps, any good apps Speaker Nick Hutchison: that you recommend people use to help with reading or like meeting Speaker Brett Gilliland: tracking it and and keeping score? Speaker Nick Hutchison: You know, I’ve actually tried to build some, in the past because I don’t love any of the ones that are currently out there. Better. I’m not a fan of good reads, not a fan of, any of the book summary applications. But I for note taking, I do use Evernote. So I think Evernote’s a great platform for categorizing my favorite takeaways from some of the books that I’ve read. My use of the platform has gone up and down over time, but, yeah, that’s that’s a great app. And then, you know, for for, in general, for making sure that you read, just set a daily reminder. Like, if you’re waking up at seven and you wanna get your ten pages done in the morning, just Hey, Siri. Set a goal for reading ten pages every morning and remind me at 7AM or whatever. And, like, those little nudges will help you will help you be consistent. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. I use the app Basmo. Have you heard of that one? No. Yeah. So I think it’s let me confirm that. That’s what it is in my phone here. So it is called, yeah, Basmo, b a s m o. It’s like a yearly fee, but you put all your books in that you’re reading, and it’ll tell you what percentage you’re at, having it done, it’ll you you basically set your timer when you start, when you finish, you just talk about what page you’re on, and it will tell you, you know, how many words per minute you’re reading, how many pages per minute you’re reading, tell me, Hey, based on this speed of reading, you’ll finish this book in, whatever, two hours and seventeen minutes, and then it’s just got a library all the books I’ve read this year, which has been kinda cool as you can look back on it, and you can take pictures, you can write notes. So I found that to be pretty helpful. I like that. So maybe could just take that idea and then, build your own, and then we’ll, we’ll sell it on here. Everybody, everybody will use it. Sound good? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. That sounds good. I’m I’ll look that up Basmo. I’m surprised that I’ve heard of it before. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I don’t even know where I heard about it, but, I I’ve been using it for probably six months, and I really like it. What what are the habits? If I would follow you besides again reading, if I follow you around with the camera every day, what am I gonna see the no miss a successful business owner impacting a lot of people. What are you doing day in and day out? First thing I do when I wake up is Speaker Nick Hutchison: outside, and I get some sight. And that’s with my dog. So we go on a walk. Most mornings, it’s forty five minute walk. There’s a trail near my house, and we get some fresh air. We get the blood moving. We drink water, and we get sunlight before caffeine. Then we go home, he gets fed and we go to the gym. So my wife is with me too. We go to the gym. We exercise And, I think it’s important to get those exercise endorphins flowing before your day gets kicked off. So I focus a lot on strength and mobility right now. Flexibility has been important for me. And then I come home, do a twenty minute transcendental meditation, front of my red light. Like, it all sounds kind of funny, but I’m one of those guys that’s really into biohacking and routines and everything like that. Shower, caffeine, reading, and then my day starts around 10AM, with a with a hold that I have with my team every days. So the things that I don’t miss every single day of the week, and they’re all the they’re all the the kind of like foundation things for my energy. I also don’t eat until 12:00. So I practice intermittent fasting normally once a week or couple times a month, I’ll do a longer fast as well. So I’m into all of that stuff. I think energy preservation, energy optimization, those are some of the things that I focus on with my routines. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what are you what are you learning about the red light? I’ve been debating on one of those. I I’ve got a sauna at home and I was thinking about putting one of those in my sauna. I’ve got the lights and all that stuff, but it’s not the true red light therapy. So, Speaker Nick Hutchison: What are what Speaker Brett Gilliland: are you liking about that? And do you actually feel any different? Are you seeing anything different with that? Speaker Nick Hutchison: I’ve been using it daily for about six Hutchison. And I can’t I I will say that I’ve you know, I’m in the gym every day. Sometimes they’ll tweak something or a muscle. Is slightly fast. Some benefits as far as skin and stuff like that. Like, it’ll it’ll stimulate collagen production. I haven’t noticed anything with my skin, but that’s supposed to be a long term benefit. And, yeah, I have a sauna in my house too. We’re not as good at getting the sauna session in every day as we could be. We normally sauna on the weekends, but you know, I and then during certain seasons, more winter than anything, we’re cold plunging. So, yeah, I do all that kind of stuff. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Cold punching never gets easy, man. It’s freaking terrible, wouldn’t it? Speaker Nick Hutchison: It is. Yeah. And I’ll tell you what, though. Like, I I enjoy cold punching. So I just have a tub outside, and I fill it with ebbs, some salt water, and and we clean the water every so often. And in Boston, it gets really cold. So there’s a great period of time for, like, three months where the water sits at thirty three degrees. There’s a layer of ice on top and you gotta get in for a few minutes and, like, I I love it. I I really do love it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love that you love it because it’s like, I I love it too. Like once I get out and once the initial shock, and I don’t know if you I’m sure you’ve done this, but I actually videotate myself getting in at one time and just I’ve never I never thought I could make facial expressions like debt my life. I’m like, this is hell. This is exactly what hell has to be like other than it’s hot, not cold, but it’s just brutal. But but again, it is the one thing I was just having this conversation with somebody there today. It is the one thing where I feel drastically different when I’m done. Would you agree with that? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Oh, yeah. Your endorphins are through the roof, and you’re just your dopamine spikes and it lasts for a while. Like, feel like a million bucks. I agree. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. It’s amazing. What what is the thing if I if I were to steal your cell phone from you? Is there anything in there that, you know, besides the normal music, email, stuff like that calendar, Is there anything app or any kind of hack thing that you use to be productive and live your best life on your phone that you wouldn’t want me to delete? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yes. I have an app called Onesec. Have you heard of this? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I have not. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Okay. So I’ll I’ll demonstrate it live for you. So it it basically stops any impulse use of social media. So when I click Instagram, up on the screen here. Watch what happens. It says, oh, it’s time to take a deep breath. It makes me breathe in. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And it Speaker Nick Hutchison: makes me breathe out. And it says, Hey, you’ve tried to access Instagram nineteen times in the last twenty four hours. And then it makes you press the button. Do you actually wanna use Instagram or do you not need it right now? And so it stops the impulsivity. Like, oftentimes, I’ll click it when I’m just waiting in line for something, and then I’ll be like, you know what? No. I don’t need Instagram right now. And so that saved me a heck of a lot of time. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So on one sec, so that is, like, basically an overlay on your phone. So if it is it any app, or is it just the ones you kinda pick and choose which one to do? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. It’s any app on your phone, and there’s tons of other rules. So there’s actually an app, that comes pre installed with iPhone, but most people delete it. Let’s see. It’s called I forget where I tucked this thing. It’s Gilliland, and shortcuts. And so the app Oh, yeah. That integrates with shortcuts. And it you can you can integrate one sec with any other app. So, like, and then you can determine how long the break is, and there’s all sorts of rules. So, the one sec app has a tutorial in it about how to set it up with any app, and that’s what I do. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love that. That’s a game changer, man. I’m gonna get that. And, the Gilliland boys are gonna get a new app installed their phone. And so when they see they’ve tried to get on TikTok for the nine hundredth time in the last twenty four hours, right, that this will make them take a deep breath and and rethink if they actually wanna do that. So, that’s awesome, man. What, talk to us about the journey, the grind. I mean, what what do you love about it? What do you dislike about it? What can you share with our listeners there? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Well, I love everything about it. I really do. I mean, failure is part of the process struggle as part of the process. And when you expect it to happen, it doesn’t surprise you. So I I what do I try to optimize for? I want to enjoy the passage of time. And for me, part of that is failure, part of it is growth, part of it is It’s being uncomfortable. And so I enjoy it. Like, I expect it. And as a result, it happens. And and it doesn’t surprise I’m just out here loving my life. I’m out here, build having fun and positively impacting people, and those are the things that I’m optimizing for. So, you know, I use these books like a cheat code, like a shortcut. I mean, they condensed decades of somebody else’s lived experience in two days of consumption. And, you know, I joke around. I’m not twenty nine years old. I’m thousands of years old if you include all the books that I’ve read. So, yeah, that’s the magic. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So talk about this book rise of the reader, man. It’s coming out November first two thousand twenty three. Talk to our listeners about this book. It’s gonna be awesome. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. I just over the years of building my community on social media, I’ve received the same questions thousands of times. Like, how do I choose the right book? How do I take great notes? How do I retain more from the books? How do I implement more from the books? And so what I did was I documented my entire process every little detail, from how do I choose these books to how do they implement it? How do I track? That behavior. So it’s all in the book, Rise of Reader. And again, if you choose to read this, you’ll get more from the other books that you’re reading. That’s the promise. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like that. And, working our listeners find more of it. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. If you go to book thinkers, so spell just like it sounds book thinkers on Instagram, That’s for most active community. Like I said, we do about impressions a month over there, and and that’s where you can connect with a ton of cool people. And then from there, there are links in the bio to the book and to our websites and everything else. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So book thinkers, Go on there now. We’re gonna Speaker Nick Hutchison: do a little. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. We have a little fun. There we are. Alright. We’re gonna play a little game here. Pick a number between one and ten. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Seven. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Alright. Now between one and three, Speaker Nick Hutchison: two. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Alright. Since this books help you this book helps you develop and implement and it’s atomic habits by, James Clear. So talk to us about that. What made you make that post right there? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Well, I don’t manage our Instagram channel anymore, but atomic habits has has told atomic habits has sold ten million copies since it came out. Clearly, people have an issue controlling their own behavior. And so they’re looking for habit creation, how to undo bad habits, how to install good habits, And atomic habits is the best. I mean, James Clear wrote a very simple actionable book. Almost everybody that reads it finds something of value in it. And I think, like, there’s a great quote from the book that I’ve I’ve always remembered. James says something like, every action you take today is a vote for the person you’re becoming. And so if you want if you want a different to take different actions today. You have to change your votes, and that book will help you do it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That. I mean, you got a lot of people I follow on here. You got like twenty seven, mutual followers. So that’s, it’s good stuff. I like this. Talk about fears, man. How many of the, I mean, the fears you’ve put in your mind have actually blown up to the magnitude you put them in your mind to be? Speaker Nick Hutchison: None of them. I think, we spend a lot of time. Yeah. We spend a lot of time. We spend a lot of time creating fake stories and amplifying fake situations that never come to fruition, and that holds us back in a big way. So Yeah. I when I was younger, I had a lot of social anxiety. I had a lot of fear. I even had fear in sports when I was growing Gilliland none of it ever came to fruition. But, the more you grow and the more uncomfortable you are, the the less uncomfortable you become, I think. Like, through exposure, you become desensitized to things that previously created fear. So Yeah. And again, I think I just failure is part of the process. So you can’t let it surprise you. You can’t and failure is so beautiful. Like, so optimistic because it teaches you what not to do and that gets you what a little bit closer to what to do. So yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: How do you so how what do you say to that person that’s listening this right now? And they’re like, whatever, man. You’re full of, you know, whatever, Nick. It’s not beautiful. It it it sucks. You know, I don’t know if I’m gonna make, you know, I I just had this happen today, a business owner. It’s like, man, I laid in bed all night last night, you know, I’m in this spot. Know, he’s stressed. He’s thinking about some stuff financially. Gilliland, you know, so that guy probably isn’t gonna agree in that moment when you’re up all night and you’re stressed out it’s beautiful. It’s easy to say and I agree with you. So I’m not I’m not saying I don’t agree with you, but but but how? How does it become beautiful? How do you when it does suck really bad in the moment? How do you get out of it and try to spend that thinking to where it’s beautiful? I Speaker Nick Hutchison: say a couple of things. Oftentimes, we think that our pain is unique to us. But the reality is about a hundred billion people have lived before us. A hundred billion history of humanity. Millions of those people have documented their life experience in the form of a book. So they’ve condensed to decades of lived experience, everything they did to overcome their problems, and they put it all in the book right there for you. Thousands of those books are probably related to the same problems that that person is facing today, your client. Yeah. And so if you can slow things down, realize that it’s not unique to anybody goes through this. But the road map, there is a solution. Other people have found a way to solve this same problem, the financial anxiety, the scarcity mindset, whatever it is. And if you can spend twenty dollars in a few hours of your time and slow things down, you can avoid dealing with that for the rest of your life by reading and implementing the right book. Set another way, if you deal with something on a daily basis, over the next thirty years, you’ll deal with it eleven thousand times, three hundred and sixty five times thirty. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Nick Hutchison: So spend the next hundred days figuring it out so that the next ten thousand nine hundred days, you don’t have to deal with it. I would I would say be more logical, less emotional, like, talk about these facts. Yeah, it does stink. Like, I’ve been in a lot of bad situations with business where I didn’t know if I was gonna make payroll or or whatever. Now I think when those situations pop up, I just have the experience of having gone I’m through it so many that it’s just like, this is part of the pro. Other people have it worse. Like, they say comparison is the thief of joy. I think comparison creates joy when you look at people that are in worse circumstances. So I use that tool a lot as well to kinda slow things down. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I think that’s great perspective, man, and great wisdom, actually. It it because I agree. When I started this podcast six and a half years ago, I asked that I’ve asked that question to three hundred plus people. Right? I mean, the fears you put in your mind blow up to the magnitude you put them in your mind would be. Most of them do exactly what you did. You smile, you say zero. And for me, that’s built this massive belief that the fears I’ve put in my mind over my lifetime, I can say none of them have come true. Right? And I can also say the three hundred plus people, the the hundreds of books I’ve read, you’re learning from that, man. So like the podcast you read, the people you surround yourself with, the books you read. Those Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. Absolutely. Sorry. I know our internet connection is going in just a little bit. But Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It is. Sorry. I don’t know why that is. Speaker Nick Hutchison: I mean, yes. All good. Yes. Absolutely. And I read a book a number of years ago called The Top Five Regrets of The Dying by Bronnie Ware. And she was an end of life is an end of life palliative care nurse. Meaning, she would spend the last couple of weeks or maybe days with somebody before they passed away talking with them. Helping them transition. And she realized that everybody dies with a ton of regret. And the number one regret is essentially living a life based on other people’s expectations of them instead of their own, like playing smaller game, not taking risk, ending up wishing they’d and I just won’t accept that for myself. Like, I think the pain of regret hurts a lot more than the pain of fear or or being uncomfortable in the short term. Right? Like, in order to to to live my dream life, that’s just that it’s part of the process. Like, it happens. Everybody faces it. So for me, it’s I would rather avoid regret but be uncomfortable in the short term than, like, have this permanent regret of not doing more with my life. You know? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. But I I’ve said this for years too is regret weighs tons, Gilliland weighs ounces. You know? Exactly. It, you know, I also talk about our attitude defines where we go. Our discipline decides how fast we get there. And so the and you mentioned it earlier about discipline. Right? So, however, how much more discipline we can get. I don’t know, man, but it it’s for me, it’s put it on your calendar, schedule it, make things happen, take action, but also be clear about where you’re going. Right? Have clarity about your plans and your future. And, sometimes it’s easier to find that discipline. So, again, you asked me this question to start with, but I’ll ask you now. So what are your favorite books. Top one, two, three books you’d recommend for people. Speaker Nick Hutchison: The book that said the biggest impact on the life that I live today and the joy that I experience on a daily basis is the four hour work week by Tim Farris. That book helped me really design my lifestyle. I have a remote business. I travel internationally a lot. I’ve spent time in twenty five different countries over the last five years with my wife. Sometimes for up to a few months at a time. I have a remote business that has ten people on the team, but everybody’s in a different location, and it’s all a result of that book. Book number two, hundred million dollar offers by Alex or Mozy added an additional six figures of revenue to my small business, which is pretty significant. You mowing it. And it’s all offer creation and, sales essentially. And then the compound effect by Darren Hardy is book number three. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Small steps in the right direction over a long period of time. That’s the name of the game. So when you talk about fear, like, I there were a couple points where I wanted to maybe mention just bite size. Like, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time? No matter how many times you read ASAP’s fable, the tortoise in the air, the tortoise always like small steps. And small steps create less fear than big steps do. So I don’t have huge goals. But I have manageable steps in the right direction in front of me, and that’s where I find most success. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. You know, it’s funny you say that at twenty nine, here I am forty five. And so I was in my twenties, I was, you know, I was I had these huge big goals, and I was always chasing them, and it was funny because then I found Sometimes when I hit those goals, I’m thinking the bells and whistles and the confetti’s gonna fly down and it and it doesn’t happen. Right? And I found that I would beat myself up if I didn’t do that one thing, even though it was a massive, massive deal, and I would end up still having a great year and a great success. And and have built a good life. And so I found as I’ve aged and you’re doing it now at twenty nine. So I applaud you for that is, is taking the baby steps. You know, I’d be like, alright, I’m gonna go from zero workouts to seven workouts a week. I’m gonna do that. And then I would do like three and then I’d beat myself up over it. Right? And just constant struggle. So I applaud you on that, man. And for our listeners, I would agree. It’s it’s find that bite sized deal that you can accomplish and do and feel good about your success. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. I didn’t process matters so much more than outcome. And so I just want to enjoy the process and make sure it’s sustainable. Gilliland I know that it will compound into exactly what I’m looking for in the future anyway. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I love it. So where do our listeners find more of Nick Hutchison, man? Speaker Nick Hutchison: The best place to go is at book fingers on Instagram, which we highlighted once before. And from there, there are link and our bio. It’s everything that you’re gonna need. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, we will put this in the show notes, and it’s been awesome having you on the circuit of success, my man. Stay with while I hit end here, but this thanks for joining us. Sorry about the internet connection today. I don’t know what’s going on there, but, I love the stuff. I had a page of notes here, man. I loved it.  

From a single embroidery machine in the living room… to the garage… to a commercial space, Robert with the help of Danny and Tyler were able to launch this business all the way into a 40,000 square foot warehouse to continue its growth path! Robert Hamm is the Founder and CEO of HatLaunch, which is located near St. Louis in Collinsville, Illinois. He started this journey in 2017 with the idea of creating a great online source for quality custom headwear after realizing there wasn’t a great option. At the beginning of 2023, both Danny Gifford (COO) and Tyler Smith (CFO) left their corporate jobs and boarded the ship of HatLaunch | Shirtlaunch to help sustain the operations, finances, and hands-on presence required to run a fast-growing business. Danny and Tyler were high school classmates and longtime friends of Robert’s who saw his vision of growing the business and wanted to provide their knowledge and experience to assist with the growth.  HatLaunch | ShirtLaunch are experiencing the best year since inception and currently predicting annual revenue for 2023 to be north of $10MM.    If you would like to place an order, check out their websites! hatlaunch.com shirtlaunch.com Full Video Robert Hamm: [00:00:00] Welcome to the circuit of success podcast, the circuit of success podcast with your host, Brett, Brett, Brett Gilliland, Brett Gilliland, visionary wealth advisory. Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the circuit of success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’ve got Robert Hammamy. Robert, what’s up my Robert Hamm: man? What’s up? How are you? I’m glad to be here. I’m good. This is exciting. First. Yeah. In person podcast. Is that right? I’ve done. Yeah. I like Brett Gilliland: them a lot more. You know, you kind of feel the energy. This is cool. Feel if somebody is actually going to continue talking. Are they not talking? You don’t know. Sometimes you don’t know what’s going on. Can you hear Robert Hamm: me? Am I muted? Exactly. You’re on mute. Brett Gilliland: Sometimes I get an echo. It’s just, it’s fun. These, these are a lot better. So, well, man, you are, uh, the founder of Hat Launch and, uh, and here’s what I wrote down. I think this is pretty cool. From your, uh, One machine in your family room in 2018. Yep to a few machines in your garage. Yep to 8, 400 square feet to soon to be [00:01:00] 40, 000 plus square feet all since 2018 dude. Yeah, so on hats Robert Hamm: been a rocket Brett Gilliland: Well, here’s it’s funny So here’s how we met for those watching or listening is I get a call from a guy Tyler Tyler used to be an intern for me back in, gosh, mid 2000s, I think, I can’t remember the year, maybe 2012, 2010, somewhere in there probably. He calls and says, hey, I just want to come by for some business advice. I’m like, great. Yeah, you want to give back to a guy who used to, you know, used to work with you. Next thing I know, I’m buying hats. I’m like, what in the hell just happened? And he didn’t do that. You know, it wasn’t like he came to me to start selling stuff, but he’s doing a good job. So Tyler Smith, you did awesome. Connected us and now I’m a proud owner of hat launch and uh, yeah, man, lots of hats. We’re gonna keep getting them So anyway, i’ll be quiet And I want to turn it over to you, man, and talk about what has helped make you the man you are today. Cause you just don’t go from your garage to 40, 000 square feet Robert Hamm: overnight. Yeah. That’s a question. Uh, so my family, I guess I grew up in the [00:02:00] restaurant industry. So my family’s owned restaurants since I was a kid. And my mom actually. We moved to Highland, uh, so that my mom could open a restaurant with my aunt and my grandma in Highland. And like, when we’re there, the whole family worked there together. Tyler actually worked there too. That’s where Tyler met his wife too. Uh, a lot of marriages came out of that place too, which is super interesting. Um, but I, it’s just always been hard work in the family, I think. And especially my mom and my dad are both really hard workers. My mom specifically, she works for me now. So that’s, we can get into that part of the story too. But, uh, she is like the hardest worker you’ll ever meet in your life. Like just still is today. I think that’s where I get my hard work and work ethic and ability to just. You know, like that, that’s to do what I’ve done in the short amount of time. It’s, it’s constant work and you have to be able to do that constant work. Otherwise it’s, it doesn’t happen. Um, so that’s just like a brief little, where I’ve, where I’ve come [00:03:00] from and kind of my foundings, you know, like seeing my family. Break their backs running restaurants for not very much, you know, like that’s a tough industry and Michael actually owns one right here. Oh the O Town. Oh, yeah. He has that one. So Yeah, he’s got the camera I was so excited when he told me he’s doing that It’s unique. Yeah. People always talk about that. Got the Brett Gilliland: robots. So, I mean, you were, you had a normal job, right? Yeah. What I would call a normal nine to five job. You were doing that. I think I saw a video. You said normal nine to five, you were in debt. Seemed like you wanted more in life. Yup. And you just had to do this hat thing, man. Yeah. And so for people listening, he, he’s the, I mean, you want to be the number one, uh, custom hat Robert Hamm: headwear maker in the world. Absolutely. Right? Right. If we’re not already. If we’re not already. So Brett Gilliland: think about that. The number one. Custom hat maker Robert Hamm: in the world. Yeah, we, we want to be that. And I, the industry like apparel in general is like multi billion dollar industry. [00:04:00] It’s crazy. And hats alone. Like if you look at the big, the big names and hats right now, like they’re a hundred million dollar businesses, you know, we’re since 2018 we’ve done, I think 13 million in sales. So like we are just like peanuts. We’re still scraping the surface when it comes to that. Um, but. Uh, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s insane what you, where we could be and what our processes and what we’re doing now is so much better than what’s out there in the competition that all it’s going to take is time and more people knowing about us to become the best and the number one in the world. So it’s super exciting. Um, just. It takes a lot of work and time and dedication, but yeah, I started, started out as a software engineer. So I went to Rankin, uh, graduated in 2010 and got my first job actually right over there north of Grumman. It’s like the building, Oh, right there, shaped like a, a B2 bomber. Uh, so like it was work, a contract working for the air force right there. Actually. I [00:05:00] didn’t even think about that till now. That’s pretty cool. Full circle. Bye. Bye. And, uh, yeah, it’s, so I was a software engineer for about 10 years, uh, doing many different jobs between the government contract stuff, private sector. And before I quit my job to work for myself full time, I was at Express Scripts. So I don’t know if you know much about Express Scripts. Express Scripts is mail order pharmacy, uh, one of the biggest in the world and they have multiple locations all across the United States where they are fulfilling prescriptions for people. Um, You might get your drugs from Express Scripts. I’m not even really know it because they’re they’re so massive So I was on the team that handled all of the basically pharmacy Automations and operations of getting that prescription From a pill to a bottle with a label on it into a box with the shipping label on it out the door using robotics and All sorts of really cool technology to make that happen. I was there for Three years, about three years and being there, all of [00:06:00] my jobs added up, gave me exposure and experience to so many different industries and seeing how powerful technology could be when applied to industries for anything. And that place specifically just really showed me. How much money is out there, how many people are out there to sell things to, and how you can efficiently and effectively scale up an operation with, you know, utilizing labor and technology and robotics. Right. So such a cool. Combination of things to work on and see happen and to build software and release it in that environment and watch it and improve a Process 10 20 30 percent is so cool. So that’s you see the needle move, right? Yeah, they’re not you so I’m so grateful for my experience as a software engineer and the jobs that I had because I took everything that I’ve learned from all those jobs and applied it to what we’re doing with custom hats where any other hat, you know, embroidery shop, they’re, they’re not using [00:07:00] software. It’s like we’re more of a tech company than we are actually a hat company because the entire operation is running on custom code that I’ve written. So from when I, when I applied my Brett Gilliland: logo, my future here in your past logo to the website. Robert Hamm: Yup. That’s all code that I’ve written at three or four in the morning. So that’s 2018. So yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s why we, that’s also why we’ve been able to scale how we have. Have because without those processes and the automation and the code in place to make sure everything’s happening, how it needs to like, you just can’t do it. We’d be using pen and paper and expel spreadsheets and you can’t scale with that. It’s not scalable. And that’s not to say that things haven’t broken throughout the way. Like every single time we hit a new growth, new, new phase and growth, like doubling revenues, part of the process breaks or part of the process needs to be automated. Or anytime something breaks, I look at how can I automate it, how can I make it easier, or how can I make it so it takes someone like one click instead of like ten [00:08:00] processes to get done. So constantly iterating and improving the processes that way has allowed it to scale and continue to scale as it has. So what was it like Brett Gilliland: for you when you were working at these, you know, big corporations? Didn’t you on the side kind of at night go home and start doing all this stuff? And then at what point did you know? Okay, I can leave a good government job, you know, right paycheck Retirement health insurance, you know, that took Robert Hamm: a long time. Yeah to get the balls to do it And so even before I was doing the hat thing in 2018, like I’ve always overextended myself to get things that I want. So for me it’s cars. That’s my vice. Like I freaking love cars. So like before I was doing any of the hat stuff, like at one point I had like three cars. I had like a BMW 135i and a Corvette Z06 and like a Jeep, like three cars on my salary. My wife was back in school with me at that time. So. I was overextended, you know, house payment, got a kid, a wife. Uh, [00:09:00] so, you know, if I wanted the car, I either got a job that paid more or I did sidewalk. So like I would build things on the side for other companies. Like I would, there’s a couple of St. Louis places that I’d be like, Hey guys, I got some free time in the evenings. Send me some code that you need written, you know, to just so I can make some more money. So I was always used to working more outside of my day job because it’s just, I, I always felt like I needed more. I wanted more, you know, if I want more, I need to make more to, to get what I want. And that’s the way it’s always been. Uh, but the, the whole driving force behind starting. Hat launch when I did was like my wife in 2017 actually rented me a Lamborghini to drive through the Colorado mountains. And a Lamborghini Gallardo is the car I’ve always wanted like forever. Right. And after driving it, I was like, okay, how do I afford this? And this is like how I always do everything. I look at the price of the thing and I, I’m always on top of my finances, like not in a good way. [00:10:00] Like I know how much I have to spend, spend down to the very cent and I spend it right. I’m not investing. I’m not saving money, but I’m at least smart in the sense that I’m not spending more than I’m making. So I’m like, okay, this car, you know, I can get a used one for a hundred grand. How much, how much does a hundred grand cost on a six year loan? How much do I need to make per month to make that happen? Factor in insurance. And I’m like, okay, this is what I need to bring home extra on the side outside of my day job. So it’s not affecting what our current we’re currently doing in our current life. It won’t affect one on vacations. You know, it has to be for my wife to bite off on it. It has to be completely paid for by something else. And that’s when I was like, all right, this is, this is the tag. This is how much it’s going to cost per month. What business am I going to come up with to make this happen? And I, uh, I’m a car guy, so I know car people, like I know, I know I can make a product specifically at the, at this point it was shirts. So I knew I could make some designs that weren’t like a super trademark infringing and [00:11:00] like, I can’t just like put like the Chevy bow tie on a shirt and sell it. Like I have to like actually make a design myself. So. I actually have graphic design experience too, like I really love art and graphic design. Um, so I came up with like some generic car designs, put them on a website called Teespring and on Facebook there’s groups of segmented people that like certain types of cars. So like there’ll be a Chevy Corvette Facebook group with like 80, 000 people in it. That’s 80, 000 fish in a barrel. That love Corvettes that will love a cool shirt that has something Corvette related on it. You post the link in there. And the cool thing about Teespring is they print and ship it for you. So I did that and like in 30 days I did like 2, 500 in sales. So I was like, all right, well there’s the first car payment on that. And then I was like, well, okay, well I know that car people also love hats. So anytime you go to the track, there’s people wearing like black flex fit hats with. You know, uh, either like a part of a car or a race team or something on the hat. So [00:12:00] I was like, okay, I want to do that for hats and started looking and there’s no website that did it. So there, there it was. It’s like, okay, so not only can I build this to use myself, I can be the teespring for hats, right? So I’m like, that’s huge, right? So I stood up the website and put my hat designs on there and it sold like a hundred hats in the first night. And I’m outsourcing all the creation of the hats to my friend’s mom in St. Louis, where I would send her an Excel, she’d go, she’d stitch them, I’d pick them up, bring them home, box them all individually and take them to the post office. So I did that for like three months, right? And after paying her all of those times to do it, I’m like, man, this is really cutting into my margins, you know, I need my own machine. So then I got my own machine and then I’m like, not really, you know, I never run in a, I run in a boarding machine before I was doing. So like I had to learn it, but staying up till three or four in the morning every night, getting these hats done, not realizing how long it was actually going to take [00:13:00] in all of that. Right. So that’s that right there is like when, you know, it really started being a lot of work because I was staying up getting the orders done. Um, and I think I had posted that I got the machine and on Facebook and one person I was friends with had a business and they ordered a hundred hats for their business. And I was able to process a hundred hats for one person versus a hundred hats for a hundred people. And it was so much easier, still took forever, but it was one person I had to worry about and for X amount of dollars, right? Covered the machine payment. Um, covered almost a little bit of what it would cost for a Lamborghini. Not quite. Um, but that right there is when I shifted the focus. Like I got to stop wasting my time on all these one offs and find just businesses like for my time best spent, it’s going to be in these businesses. And after finding a couple more and doing those on a single head, I’m like, well. You know, it’s, I can only do one [00:14:00] hat at a time. I need to get a six head machine, which does six hats at a time. And this thing is like 42, 000. It’s like the single head was 18, 000 with the software that I needed to like make the designs and then another 42 grand for this machine. So it’s like, all right, YOLO, let’s do it. Right. And the thing is, is like by getting these loans and these machines. It puts the pressure on me to make sure I at least sell enough to pay for the machines. So even if I didn’t feel like working or feel like making the sales or making the, you know, making the money to get the car that I wanted, I had to at least cover the payments on the machines because otherwise it’d be coming out of my personal account, which is already down to zero because I overextend on everything, right? So I, and that’s how I operate best is external pressure. Like that’s what keeps me going. It keeps me, keeps me driving forward. But funny enough that that six seven machine was delivered the same week my first kid was born. So I’m doing my day job nine to five. I’m coming [00:15:00] home stitching hats till three or four in the morning. I’m getting a 42, 000 machine delivered to my house while I just had a newborn baby born. And I, in hindsight, I’m just an idiot. That was so much stuff. We made it work. Um, and that, that was the early days, right? Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what, what do you think it was about you that had the spine? I mean, a lot of people aren’t going to go out and buy an 18, 000 machine on a, I hope I can sell some hats and, or a 42, 000 machine. I hope I can sell more hats. Like there’s a lot in there, right? So how do you unpack that? I mean, Robert Hamm: for me, like I saw how many people were excited about hats. And wanted hats and I, I did see the gap, like at least online for being able to get, get them from a good source. So like I knew without, uh, without a shadow of a doubt that I could find people to buy hats. Okay. It’s just a matter of how much time I spent trying to find them, like doing the sales myself. And that’s, [00:16:00] that’s really what, like, I never really felt like, you know, The only thing it would be is like, if I just, if I stopped working, then I would, you know, like I said, I wouldn’t bring in the sales to, uh, pay for the machines. But you believe in that Brett Gilliland: process enough that you could go out and do the Robert Hamm: ads and do the things. And like, I honestly, at this point where I’m at now, after doing this for five years, I’m pretty certain that if like, if I, if I have a product that I believe in. I’m pretty sure I can do the same thing. Like it’s, it’s with most product. If you have a good product with a good offering, a good price, and especially a good customer experience, you’re going to be able to sell it. Yep. Just no matter what it is. Yeah, right. Yeah. And that’s, that’s like, I, I, it, I believe myself a lot more now than back then, but, um, it is, I think it was just that belief that I know I can do it. And honestly, like by forcing myself into those loans. I had to do it. Yeah. So it wasn’t like a. Yeah. No. Right. Yeah. It wasn’t [00:17:00] like a thing like. If it didn’t work. Who cares? Right. It’s like I had to. So by doing that, you force yourself into doing Brett Gilliland: it. What have you learned throughout this process of, of stress and how you handle that? What do you do to overcome that? Like help our listener. Robert Hamm: It never ends. No, I’ll tell you that. Like right now I’m probably the more stressed than I was back then, uh, with this whole building situation and getting that done, like choosing conventional loan conventional loan versus SBA and like battling them out between the two. And like, if we go conventional, it’s a 20 percent down payment or SBA it’s 10%. But now it’s a hundred percent financing through SBA, but to do SBA, you’ve got to do a phase two, uh, EPA environmental. And if that comes back dirty, then, and you know, if the remediation on the building is more than the cost of the property, I can’t buy that property anymore. It doesn’t make sense. And then I’m like, Oh shit, where am I going to go? Like we have to get these businesses together into the same roof. Um, let [00:18:00] alone just to operate better, but to continue to grow. So it’s so stressful right now, but the stress is like, it’s, it’s always there. It’s always going to be there. I mean, you’re going to have stress. It’s it puts stress on your marriage. It puts stress on your friendships. It puts stress on you just in general. Um, it’s just, I guess just managing it. And honestly, I don’t even really know how I manage it. I just do it. Yeah. Like Brett Gilliland: there’s a passion for what you’re doing though. I mean, there’s gotta be a passion, right? I mean, Robert Hamm: creating, creating. Yeah. Creating the product, like I, there’s nothing more fulfilling and gratifying than seeing a problem, especially for me with like the software side of things, seeing a problem and creating a solution that solves the problem. And then seeing customers using that and getting, you know, having happy customers at the, as the outcome of it is so gratifying and with doing what I’m doing in this business, like we do that. It’s like every week, there’s a new problem that’s solved and it keeps, you just keep going and the wins. So the wins outweigh the stress [00:19:00] and it’s like some, it might outweigh it to where it’s a wash and you’re just neutral, but it keeps you going for sure. Brett Gilliland: So I saw on your website, talked about, uh, delegate, automate and innovate. Yep. Robert Hamm: So talk to me about those. Those are my, those are the three words that mean a lot to me. So like, when I think about, uh, Um, when I was at work and I had, so I had the six head and the single head of my house, my wife would go out there in the garage and run orders and she just did it on her own. I didn’t ask her to do it. She just knew that I had a lot to do and like she’s watching the baby, but the baby took a nap. She’d go out there and do it. I come home and the 10 orders done that I needed to get done and I was like, holy crap, if I could just have someone doing this while I was at work. All I’d have to focus on is like getting customers and writing code. Like this would be great. And that’s where the next phase of the growth of the businesses, I got to get this out of my house and find a part time person to run these machines [00:20:00] for me. Cause I can’t have a person working at my house. It’s just awkward, but that’s delegate. So delegating tasks to free yourself up to do the things that you’re good at. Yes. That your time’s most valuable spent doing. Brett Gilliland: And so I’m going to add to that. So I was 20, I think I was 24 getting ready to be 25. I hired my first assistant and I remember after the end of the year of 2003. Going home and saying, okay, to my wife, I’m going to hire an assistant and it’s basically, basically going to be about 60 percent I’m going to pay this person 60 percent of what I just made the year before. Right. Right. And so it’s one of those defining moments in my life, right? Where it’s like, wait, you’re going to spend 60 percent of what you just made to hire another person. You’re not really that busy anyway. Right. But to what you just said, it freed me up to do what I’m uniquely qualified to do. Right. I always say, go out and play in traffic, go meet people, build a network, right? Do those things. And so I think for our listeners, if you’re debating on hiring somebody, man, you just got to do it. You just got to do it. Again, I keep saying it. Bet on [00:21:00] yourself, make the hire because you’re going to do the work. Robert Hamm: Right. And worst case, if it doesn’t work out, get rid of them in a month and find someone else that does work. Right. Right. Right. And like, that’s funny. Like today with the assistant discussion, I was literally talking about that this morning in the office. I’m like. I have to, like, before I came here, I’m going through my inbox where there’s 4, 800 unread emails and like organizing them. It’s literally a waste of my time. And I’m just trying to get my inbox cleaned up, but it’s like, I have to have someone at least. At least putting things on my calendar and going through my inbox because that’s, it’s such a, it’s such a kill on time. It was three hours deep into that and I barely had them cleaned up. Right. Brett Gilliland: Well, Robin’s right down here behind us about 12 feet away. I can tell you since 2005. Uh, she’s been unbelievable, right? The things it frees me up to do. And she’s the dream processor, right? I’m hopefully we’ll be the dream maker and she processes the dreams. And so that’s what we kind of do with our [00:22:00] clients. But you’re right from calendar management, email management, those things are two things that get off our plate. So that delegate is a big deal. So that was delegate Robert Hamm: automate. Yep. Automate is the tech side. Well, automate and innovate. So automation, like when I look at every single part of my business, How can I use tech to reduce the amount of man hours it takes to do it to make it easier for the man hours that are actually doing the work, get it done. And or can you just completely make it so that no one even has to do it? It’s just automated. And a lot of it is, especially when you’re dealing with like customers, like, like a DT, uh, direct to consumer business. How can you let the customer? Solve their problems for themselves. So Amazon’s really good at this. And like, uh, I, I, I say I want our custom hat business to be the Amazon of custom hats. Like I want it to be that hands off and that easy for anyone to go to our site, buy custom ads and get the product. If there’s ever [00:23:00] a problem, railroad, the solution to the problem. So the customer, all I have to do is click a button. Type click done, you know, there doesn’t have to be any back and forth customer service doesn’t have to be any uncomfortable Conversations on our end or their end like we know what we’re gonna do in the end of the day to solve that problem How can you make it so the customer can just do that themselves get there and be done? So looking at every single part of the process in the business and applying automation in any form And doing that, like at the, the smallest grader level makes the business more profitable, more scalable and better than anyone else. How much Brett Gilliland: think time are you doing? I’m a big believer in think time. You see these journals and the journals back over here. I’ve been doing it since July of 2005. Like that’s where my ideas come from. So are you thinking a lot? If so, what’s that process for you? Robert Hamm: Too much. Okay. Right. Uh, so, um, Uh, it’s funny that you say that too, because I actually think about this the morning too. This is hilarious. Like you’re tapping into my brain right now, [00:24:00] but like, I don’t, I don’t take notes. I have no notes. It’s all in my brain and I, I don’t know, like I wish I could be a person that could write down on a piece of paper what I’m thinking or take notes. Like when I’m in, in a meeting, like talking or listening to someone speak, like me taking notes does not help me at all. So I, I don’t, I, my, I don’t really understand myself or like why I’m able to do it that way. But I do think constantly to the point that I could be in the car with my wife driving down the road and she’s talking to me. Um, and I’m not listening because I’m thinking about processes and the problems that are currently going on. Um, I think ADHD has something to do with that too, uh, with the way my brain works. But uh, that’s a, that’s a whole other podcast. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: Well, if I could, I mean, I would add to that the schedule. So delegate, automate, innovate, doesn’t rhyme with everything here, but the scheduling part, what I’ve found is. So as I’ve, my business has gotten bigger [00:25:00] and more people is the think time was important, but I also had to schedule things, right? Because same thing. I could be driving down the road and checked out, but you know, like we want to be in the moment, right? You want to enjoy your kids, enjoy the journey and it goes fast and all those things is I found is me having to schedule it. If I can’t delegate it, I can’t delete it. Right. I got to schedule it. I got to do that quickly. Right. Yep. Robert Hamm: And that’s something that I’m bad at and getting way better at. Um, During the beginning of this thing, like I’ve never had a schedule and, uh, my life has just been chaotic. Like I I’m the guy that showed up to work late every day. So like. I was an awesome employee because I did great work and I really like blew managers away with how, what I could do, like technically. Yeah. But I was the guy that they always brought up because he is late every day. Like, come on dude, just show up. I remember I got, I got put on a performance improvement plan. It’s like I was a contractor before I was actually hired at Express Scripts, and there’s some [00:26:00] issues with being a contractor where like. Management doesn’t actually know how you’re doing back at the home office. Like you got your manager above you that says he’s late every day. That’s all it gets back. But you know, when they actually ended up hiring me as an employee, like the kind of shows that I’m doing pretty well, pretty good. But, uh, yeah, it’s hilarious. Like, you know, I was put on a performance improvement plan, but then here I am now like running a business on my own and it’s really hard for me. To hold employees to a schedule when I myself was a turd being an employee back then, right? So it’s super awkward and like I that’s one thing with me is I actually don’t want to be the boss I don’t want to be managing the people. I don’t want to do any of that I just want to you know, I want to be pulling the strings and executing the business and let other people handle that but yeah, like another funny little side note is like Um, I, I need, I needed a schedule and I was trying to schedule my life and like build a day for myself that was structured. Right. And I actually wrote out a list like of times that I wanted to do things in the [00:27:00] day. Right. And at the top is like Robert’s, Robert’s scheduled to not be a piece of shit. It’s literally what it said at the top. And like, it was like 7 a. m. Wake up. You know. Be out of the shower by seven 30 done. Right. No, no taking hour long bathroom breaks where I’m thinking on the toilet. Cause that’s where I do all my thinking is on the frigging toilet. Uh, I think a lot of men do, but, uh, and just like lunch at 12, like be home at five 30 and then dinner at six and like that never, never, it can never happen. But I did that two years ago and I pulled it up again and Um, that, like I looked at my day now and sub, sub, like subconsciously it’s kind of fallen into that. And I was like, holy shit. Like I’m waking up at seven. It’s the power of writing it down. Yeah. And I, I guess I didn’t really think about that till now, but like, you know, I have to drop my daughter for a school daughter off at school at eight 30 every day. So I’m at least, that’s something that I have to do. So that figured out my first little section of the morning. I get to my office at nine. And [00:28:00] then, you know, the other stuff in there is kind of not really scheduled, but it is getting to a point where it is kind of stuff’s kind of falling in place. So it’s, it’s super interesting that my life is kind of just like figuring itself out with this thing. And especially as I start delegating more, it’s like at the start of the year, hiring Tyler as our CFO and then Danny as our CEO, like. Danny’s operating, managing all of our people, all of our operations. Tyler’s managing all of our finances and executing all that stuff for that. I was doing both of those things before they started. Right. So getting that stuff on the plate too has also helped with the scheduling stuff. So Brett Gilliland: delegate, automate, innovate. Jeff, is this a time where I do my Jeff, our producer over here? Is this a time I, I plug my, my, my, uh, my own journal, which you got to copy over here. This is going to help you, man. This is your daily planner, your weekly planner, your Sunday. I mean, it’s got all sorts of stuff in here, man. So we’ll talk offline about that, how this was a game changer. This is 20 years of work for me in one spot now. So I can go as a busy professional and dive into it. [00:29:00] So, um, let’s talk about our potential, man. We, I think, you know, as people listen to podcasts, hopefully this podcast, there’s a lot of potential out there and we’re, we’re maximizing it, but how do we maximize it more? Get it to the next level that we want to be the number one hat guy, the number one financial guy, you know, in the world, right? Robert Hamm: Yeah. The more, the more I do this and kind of going back to like, if I started another business, I’m pretty confident that I could just make it work, you know, because of what we’ve done here. Like, I feel like you, you get to this, you get to this next level of like thought process where you start looking at the things around you for what they are like that barrel over there was built in a factory somewhere that probably employed a hundred people. That’s probably a hundred million dollar business that just made wood barrels. Yeah, and it’s crazy the stuff that Everything around you is made somewhere by a company that makes a ton of money to do that Yeah, and there’s so much stuff in the world that You just need one little sliver of that. And to [00:30:00] do it, you just have to do a little bit better than the other guys are out there. Right. And it’s, to me, it’s just, it’s almost debilitating because now I have so many other ideas that I want to execute on that I can’t. Cause I’m pigeonholed into my business now and I know if I leave it, it’s not continue to flourish and grow like it is. And I want it to, but I have so many other things that I want to do that I just right now I can’t. But I know if I, if I stick to it for five, 10 more years, I’m going to have like this, not, not, not only just free time, but the capital to be able to build a team myself to execute on my visions and plans. But you just really start to see the world for what it is. Uh, as far as businesses and products and how that works and realize that if you just put the time and energy and effort into it, it’s, it’s gonna work and anyone can literally do it. Anyone. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: So the circuits of success are your attitude, your belief system, um, the, the actions that you take. [00:31:00] Ultimately get the results that you want, right? That’s the circuits of success, hence the podcast name. And so, but your belief right there shines bright. And so I think for people listening, it’s belief in ourself. It’s belief in a process. It’s belief in showing up to work is belief in the goal. It’s belief, whatever the things are, right, that’s gotta be. And what I’m hearing from you, uh, is your, to your core, you believe in your work ethic and what you’re going to do and what you’re going to go build true. Robert Hamm: Oh yeah, betting on myself. Yeah. I know if I bet on myself, I’m going to be the person that’s going to have my best interests in mind. I’m going to be the one that has to do the work, so I’m just going to continually bet on myself and push myself to get where I want or need to be. Brett Gilliland: What 2016? Guy, right? So yeah, Robert’s two years away from even starting this biz. What advice would you have for that guy? Oh boy. Robert Hamm: Wow. [00:32:00] I haven’t even thought about that advice. Oh boy. Get help sooner. Like if I would have got out of my garage a little quicker and had more help at the beginning there, it would have just scaled faster. But um, Yeah, that’s a, that’s a tough question. Uh, I, I really wouldn’t change anything because worked out like all of the, all the turmoil or stress or problems or like, what’s really funny is through growing this thing, I’ve had moments where I felt like I had to reach out to the person that’s done it. To get advice and every single time I’ve done that, they’ve never responded. When you think about like saying an Instagram DM to like Andy for Sela, like the guys that you listen to on the podcast, it’s like, if I could get them to just talk to me for an hour, they have all the answers, but every time that connections ever made, or I never get the advice, you figure it out on your own [00:33:00] and when you figure it out on your own. You really know it, you know, you see Brett Gilliland: me scrolling here because I just wrote down on my weekly scorecard for this week So I was I was right down every week my biggest awareness Yeah, it’s what my biggest awareness was and what I wrote down was I was with somebody yesterday and it’s you know Sometimes you think people could be different if they’re in your same position Yeah, what you just said you got to reach out to them, right? They’ve got the magic answer boom the world is figured out. I wrote down my biggest awareness was We’re all the same people. We’re all the same people. Yep. We’re doing great Robert Hamm: work. Yep. Keep freaking going, right? And I think and what’s funny is not now. I have a YouTube channel 1, 500 subscribers, I’m killing it But I have people reaching out to me in the same way that I was reaching out to those people for the advice and it’s like, my advice is, is you have to put in the work and that’s like, we can go on the whole tangent of what I feel about all the fake people on social media and like, so my YouTube channel is, I want to [00:34:00] be showing the truth. I want to be the true side of the entrepreneurial journey and show it unfiltered, never sell a scammy course on how to get rich quick or successful because the people that are going to respond to give these people advice, it’s going to be for their monetary benefit, like almost a hundred percent of the time. And if it, if. If that person isn’t doing that, they’re freely giving the advice through content like a podcast or YouTube channel. You know, that’s right. So, um, I, I, I gosh, I, I love. Just watching the, the, the fake gurus out there, you know, sell their courses and stuff where Selling courses on something. They’ve never even done themselves, right? They’re making the money on the… I follow Brett Gilliland: that, like they’ve never built anything. They’ve never built a business and it’s like, man, I don’t know. I could have a whole nother show about that too. It drives me nuts. So, um, let’s do it. We’ll do it together. We’ll just talk about like real raw Robert Hamm: [00:35:00] stuff. Pull up their Instagrams. Well, I got this Brett Gilliland: little ladder over here. You can’t see it, but you know, it talks about, you know, your, your perseverance, your courage, your, your belief, your attitude, you know, all those things. And then ultimately you get the freedom. And I think what I always say is you, you tip the ladder upside down. That’s the way people want to climb the ladder. They want the freedom. Right, right. They don’t see the stuff at three o’clock in the morning when you don’t even know your name, you don’t, you can’t even sleep because you’re so sleep deprived. You got a baby bottle, you got a diaper over here, oh and by the way I gotta be at work five minutes late tomorrow, right? Yep. They don’t see that side. They see the guy that’s doing a million a Robert Hamm: month side acts. Exactly, right. Yeah, and that’s uh, that’s where you just, there is no quick path to get there. It’s always gonna be the work. And even if I did start something new, I would be in, I would start from the dirt up, like I would have, I’d have a leg up because of what I’ve built now and knowing some of the pitfalls I went through. So it will be easier the next time, but [00:36:00] you’re still going to fail. You’re still going to trip on yourself. And it’s just, just put in the work. So how many of Brett Gilliland: the fears you’ve put in your mind have actually blown up to the magnitude you put them in your mind to be? Robert Hamm: Oh goodness. Uh, I, you know, we’ve got over 40 employees now, so that weighs heavily on me and it’s like any downturn in sales, even at just the day level. Like if it was a bad day in sales, I’m like, Oh shit. I go, my mom works for me. Like. There’s, my sister works for me now too, geez, what am I doing to myself? My sister in law works for me. Like, it’s family, it’s family at this point too, you know? Like, if this goes belly up, my family’s out of work. But then I think about it, like, you know, those people can go get jobs somewhere else too. Not that I have to. I ever Brett Gilliland: go belly up, we go to this extreme of… Robert Hamm: These fears that’s where it always goes Brett Gilliland: right [00:37:00] false evidence is appearing real we put them in our mind They don’t blow up to the magnitude. We put them remind me. Yeah, maybe you have a down year Maybe you have a bad month a bad quarter. I don’t know right but in reality is you’re gonna pivot You’re a good enough business leader and a good business owner and you get Robert Hamm: the grind hustle. You’ll pay and honestly The hard times are the good times because that’s when the business owner, the executor really straps in and fixes shit and makes it better. So in this current downturn and ads not doing well, I’m going through the customer’s experience and making it so much better than it ever was because it’s the uncomfortable pressure of like, I’ve got to make this better because we need more sales. And it’s, it’s the problem right now that needs fixed. Right? So I hunker down and I, I, I’ve rolled out a lot of really good shit. That’s having a great, uh, great return in the business, but it’s the pressure of like, and the, and when things are great, you know, we’re doing seven or 50, 000 a month, I’m just like kind of coasting, you know, this is great. Yeah. And then that’s seven 50 dips down to 500. [00:38:00] And we’ve staffed up to handle what seven 50 takes to get done. And you’re kind of like, Oh shit, we got to get these sales back in. I got like, what’s going on? Right. You know, wait a few weeks to make sure it’s not just a blip. Then if it’s not just a blip, all right, we’ve got to hunker down and figure something out. And it’s, uh, I’ve really realized that it’s like, it’s in the times of the discomfort where you really prevail and make things better. So you. If things are perfect, you’re never going to learn, improve, or do anything. You’re just to be complacent. What’s Brett Gilliland: a, what’s chat GPT, Robert Hamm: AI, all those Brett Gilliland: things. How are they going to impact our Robert Hamm: work? Oh God. Uh, word salad, essay dissertations on every LinkedIn posts underneath the comments of people trying to look cool. Uh, not even just LinkedIn posts, Jesus. Uh, the entire internet is going to become word salad, word soup all over the place of people. Creating clickbait blog articles. I mean blogs are already flooded the internet [00:39:00] for SEO purposes Just get freaking clicks and ad revenue It’s just gonna create this generic just blah of an internet space and I really dislike it The art side of things really cool. So like for me as an artist, I can just type in to get a Inspiration or an idea to create something and I think that’s really really cool It’s like I could get inspiration take something that it shows me and then recreate it to actually make it look Yeah, I would never expect something spat out from AI to be like the final art piece But using it for inspiration I think is super powerful. Um, but as far as the, like I, so I actually, I hired my first programmer, uh, shoot, maybe almost a year ago now. Um, and he’s, he’s completely green right out of school went to rank into, um, and he’s chatty to be a lot. And every time, every time I see him pulling it up when we’re talking, like sitting down and do something and I’m like, here you go again, using chat, TCP to teach you what [00:40:00] you’re doing. Um, and I’ve tried it a couple of times and I was surprised at how good it was at writing a solution. But three out of the five times I tried to use it, it didn’t work. It wasn’t right. And it’s AI, the biggest problem with AI is it’s not actually artificial intelligence. It’s pulling data from human inputted data. Like databases, this is our words, our code, our everything that we’ve just put in these data sets that the AI is pulling from. It’s not thinking of anything on its own. No, it’s not artificially creating anything. It’s just pulling. So in the form of like content of texts and everything, it’s literally just taking a bunch of different sentences and words that other people have written on the internet and putting An article. Yeah. And when you think about trying to get like factual information from AI, where is that AI pulling [00:41:00] the information from? How up to date is that information? You don’t know. Yeah. So it’s like Brett Gilliland: two or three years behind. Right. Yeah. So it worries me for critical thinking for our kids. Robert Hamm: Oh, for sure. So you just go there now and type something in there. I wish I had it in school. I would never do. I mean, I didn’t do any homework anyways in school. But. I would do it because I could just make Chatty TV do it. Uh, geez. Scary man. Math problems literally show you what to write to get the equation done. Oh my gosh. Brett Gilliland: Crazy. Last question here for you, a future greater than your past. That’s the logo here. That’s a, you know, hats you guys have made. That’s the, uh, the mission of our firm is to help people achieve a future greater than your past. So when you hear that, what does that mean to you? Robert Hamm: Growth, just personal growth, like learning and constantly improving. Your relationships, like for me, I need to improve my health. I’m not a healthy person. I eat terribly. I don’t drink [00:42:00] water I drink diet soda every day like I need to get in a gym, you know Like for me, that’s one part of my growth that I want to see better in myself And also the schedule stuff like I want to get better with that I do want to be able to detach and spend time with my kids like you said earlier Because you know, we just had our second and she’s two months now four and a half year old man Uh, three month old almost, but being able to really spend time with my family, you know, and that becoming a dad and a good father, like that’s another part of my growth too. Um. Um, I, I hope everyone has the ability to be a dad and a father too, cause it’s super cool. It’s nuts. Um, yeah, that’s, it’s just personally bettering yourself. Like that’s where I want to go. And if, if that happens to be in a business space too, that’s great. You know, it just improves my life and the life of those around me, you know, Brett Gilliland: I love it. Well, I think they can exist. I mean, that’s what I’ve tried to make a career out of, right. That your personal, professional, your financial, your spiritual, your emotional, your intellectual, all those [00:43:00] areas physically. They can all, uh, be together, right? That’s what we’re trying to help people do. So where do our listeners find more of you and your company and an easy process? So I can go in and buy, you know, hats, get Robert Hamm: some hats, uh, hat launch. com. That’s where you can order hats. Uh, we also have shirt launch. com so you can get shirts just as easy. The website is about. Eight months out of date from the hat launch one. So I do all my innovations and stuff there. And then I take all that code and paste it into the shirt launch side. So the process is good, but not as good as hat launch, but, uh, it will be soon. Um, but on, um. Um, I’m the launch dude. So launch dude, basically on all social media platforms, but YouTube, the launch dude, launch dude was taken by a guy that has like one video from 20 years ago on there. Dang it. Uh, but yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m really hitting the YouTube stuff hard and I’m putting a lot of work in these videos. Like they’re 20 minute long videos that are hopefully Netflix quality is what you guys see out of it. The old, the older stuff. No, like that was me [00:44:00] doing it myself. But now like I got a producer, we’re actually. Lives with me in my house for weeks at a time, follows me around and that is freaking exhausting. Let me tell you, like, I don’t know how celebrities do it. Have a dude following them around with the camera, like being on camera all day by itself is exhausting and then doing it while trying to run a business is like, holy crap, this is hard. Um, but yeah, please YouTube. Like and subscribe Brett Gilliland: awesome, man. Well, we will send people your way. We’ll put it in the show notes. It’s been awesome Having you Robert Hamm: robert. Thank you for being here, man. That’s great That’s my grand city great school education there Brett Gilliland: so much. Thank you

Brett Gilliland interviews Chris Dreyer, CEO of Rankings.io, discussing his competitive upbringing, journey to digital marketing, marketing tactics, relationship equity, SEO, branding, the importance of a coach or mentor, taking care of health, growing business, and real estate portfolio.

On this episode of the Circuit of Success podcast, host Brett Gilliland interviews Marc Hodulich, the founder of 29029. Marc talks about his goals with his business, which are not to be the biggest or most profitable, but to have an impactful community, build a legacy, and have something that lasts. He also shares his journey to success, the importance of peak performance in life, and his experience as an entrepreneur. Marc encourages listeners to take risks and put something big on their calendars. Full Youtube Episode Here!   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, we’ve got Mark. Hodulich with this, Mark. How you doing, my man? Speaker Marc Hodulich: I’m great, Brad. How are you? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m good. I like those pictures back there. Looks like you got some, mountain maybe, mountains and a leg, get some kids, stuff going on, creating experiences. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Europe ski trip, dog, kids, all the things. Speaker Brett Gilliland: A white picket fence. You got it all, man. Well, cool. I am excited to have you today. So you are an avid adventurer, your accomplished entrepreneur, father of two boys, married, founded and exited multiple companies. One of them, which I’m assuming is what that red hat is right there, is the two 09:02 nine. And, we’ll look forward to talking about all that stuff. But before we do that, I’d like to dive in and kinda learn about the past, man. What’s the background? What’s the story you’ve got that’s made you the man you are today? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Well, thanks for having me. It hasn’t been a linear journey. I’ll tell you that. But, But briefly, yeah, look, I had a great childhood growing up. My dad was a runner. I got to be a competitive runner in late middle school to high school or in tracking college. And I think, you know, for the basis of just discipline and commitment to a goal, didn’t achieve my goals at all as a college runner. I ran at Auburn and as much as I love the school. I probably shouldn’t have been running in the SEC. I was good enough to make our travel team and ass kicked at every race that we went to. So, you know, it was a humbling experience, and then always just kinda dream big. Right? Kind of felt like I knew what my life would be like if I moved back to Burring him out, Pamela, where I was originally from. And right after school moved up to New York Gilliland, you know, it’s kind of knowing what the goal is, but having no idea how you’re gonna figure it out. I knew I wanted to live there. I knew I wanted to be in consulting or work in finance. It was a tough market. It was right after two. And, yeah, it was just a really tough time to find a job in the world of finance. And so I did everything from sell payroll door to door at ADP to work at Thomas Pinks, telling luxury clothing goods to, working at caterer, and it took me about four months to find a really good management consulting job, but I wasn’t unwilling to put in really hard work that maybe I felt like my degrees and my background and my skill set maybe weren’t aligned with. I was just willing to put in the work to try to find the Gilliland, yeah, you know, I kinda just, met my wife in New York. We have married seventeen years now. And pretty quickly in the world of management consulting. I know it’s not what I wanted to do a long time. Still had always that side hustle mentality and had founded a business off to the side and eventually was able to to kinda leave my consulting gig and do that full time. And that’s kind of change into the world of event production, a lot of live events, community building, and finds me where I am today, which is, you know, running a company that I founded with my partner that we sold and bought back called twenty nine and twenty nine. And, that stands for the height of Everest, twenty nine thousand, twenty nine feet. And we built a really cool community and endurance concept really gives people a story to tell. You know, o over a course of a weekend, you know, you’re gonna go to Sun Valley or Whistler or Jackson Hole, and we’re gonna present a challenge of can you hike up a mountain and take a gondola down? Continue to climb it until you hike twenty nine thousand, twenty nine feet. So kinda very quick transition to where I’m at now, but Yeah. Never it’s never easy, and I think a lot of people don’t see all of the challenges, failed businesses, jobs you didn’t wanna work to kinda just see the lifestyle that you have now or or the position you’re in now. And, I’m only able to be here because this learning from my mistakes, but also having really great trusted relationships along the way that finally found the right way to leverage all those in this current business that running out. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s awesome to see. I mean, that you you talked about the community. I mean, the the twenty nine zero two nine is amazing. I mean, I watch through Jesse’s, social media stuff, Jesse. It’s with social media stuff. That’s how I originally got turned on to it and then through your stuff. It’s just amazing. It’s an amazing community. And Gilliland it’s something that people, I think of all walks of life can try to go accomplish. And so my question for you, if there’s a thousand people that do it, how many people are finishing it? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Depends on the location, but, I’d say, on average, around sixty eight percent, right, sixty eight to seventy percent finish it. Well, compare that to a marathon where you get about a ninety eight percent finisher rate. A lot of people are surprised by that. Marathons have an tremendously high, finish your rate. And then compare that to something that I’ve done as well, the leadville trail one hundred, which is one of the most famous, the kind of mountain ultra marathons, hundred mile run. That’s Hodulich a thirty five percent finisher rate. So I don’t wanna say we’re we’re in the middle. It’s it’s really hard. It takes a long time. But, it’s so approachable. We had a participant Jim Fisher who finished our event last year in whistler, eighty years old. Right? Oh, wow. And he said that it’s from that is frustratingly doable. Like, you just moved slowly walking for thirty five straight hours. Right? And so if you’re willing to forego sleep, or a little bit of sleep, it’s amazing what you can accomplish if you just keep moving. And, you know, most people do get to sleep three, four, five hours. Right? But we’re talking about one night of your whole life versus being able to say, hey, I win to Jackson Hole or Whistler or Sun Gilliland and climb that mountain 12:15, seventeen times until I climbed the height of everest. I sacrifice one night of sleep, you know, almost once a month. I do do that. I do I do them all. Right? And it’s, to be able to tell that story, but learn about yourself and the skills that you learn and the patience to discipline the commitment that the compassion, the empathy, all those things that happen because it’s not a race. It’s self scored. And you have thirty six hours to to keep track of your own hikes up the mountain. And, and be really rewarded with a a a pre turnkey experience. So not a not a super high finish rate, but at the same time, You don’t have to be an accomplished endurance athlete. And for most of our participants, they’ve never done, ten k, ten k, or even a half marathon before before set up for the event. Wow. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And what you talked about there is the mindset, man, the the to being able to do that, because I think so many times that little space here in our heads tells us we can’t do this. We can’t do that. It’s dangerous. No sleep. Or maybe you got a condo there. Maybe you’re sleeping outside. Whatever it is people are doing. The negative self talk is used. Right? And that’s in business, that’s in just anything in life. So what have you done throughout your life to to kind of flick that guy, that negative self taught guy off your shoulder and and compete and accomplish anyway. Speaker Marc Hodulich: I mean, look, I think it’s it’d be wrong for me to say that I got it all figured out. But what I tell you is I’m constantly putting myself in a position where, I’m gaining confidence through completing things. And I think that’s the only way you really figure it out is that the voice inside your head that’s telling you you’re not good enough. You’re not fast enough. You’re not strong enough. You’re not smart enough. You’re not working. Whatever that is, as you actually accumulate these small wins. And those wins happen a lot in training. Right? I mean, you don’t You get this red hat if you finish. Right? If you’ve gone twenty nine thousand, twenty nine feet, you you earn this red hat. And, you earn that red hat through five or six months of training. Right? It’s getting up in the morning when you didn’t want to. It’s going for a hike in the rain. It’s doing the workout in the gym for your hip flex. It’s all of those little things that add up to the finish line, and most people only see the finish line. So I think you’re able to do it on a consistent basis. Look, today I finished my run, and I was in a little bit of a rush for a call, and I would normally go in cold plunge. And I’m gonna plunge up my house for well over a year, and I do it every day. It’s gonna be a mental challenge to do it later today. I’m not hot after a run gonna be dark by the time it’s a chance to do it. You know, it’s it’s it’s gonna be out of my routine. But you get a small win from doing something like that. Right? You start developing that set. I think you just if she constantly put yourself in a position, where you have an opportunity to quit on yourself, and you realize that you didn’t, you sharpen that tool. So when you’re doing something really big like a twenty nine and twenty nine, you’re able to rely on some past experience there. And even if you haven’t done a big amount, or you’re you’re sharpening that tool through training. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So let’s we’re gonna divert here for a second is this cold plunge. So everybody talks about it. I’ve had the guy Ryan Dewey, the founder of Plun John, and and there’s a lot of great ones out there. He’s the one I know. But talk to our listeners about that, man. Because everybody that’s anybody that’s doing peak performance type stuff now is talking about this cold plunge. So is, is it a game changer for you like it is for a lot of people? Speaker Marc Hodulich: I mean, look, first of all, I have a plunge. So I’m not plugging it. I don’t get paid this whole thing. I’ve just had it for a while. I love it. I recommend it to a lot of people. So tell Ryan has made it a great product, and and I love it. It’s awesome. Right? Look, I I don’t know if all the longevity things are true, but it certainly does hurt anything. It it helps tremendously with recovery. And for me, it’s as big as a mental boost. It’s a physical boost. There is the very practical nature of just tend to be working out right before I have to go do something else. And I can’t cool off. I live in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s hot and humid. You know? And then it and it’s a wonderful thing to be able to hop in something for three, four minutes and bring your core body temperature way down. I sleep better with it. So I’m a huge proponent of it just because I see no downside. I think the mental toughness aspect is key. How I’ve learned, about breathing and breath work and control and and not panicking. And this helped my kids My boys are eleven and thirteen now and watching their friends come over. And and the the people who just can’t commit to it, make it way worse. And those just kind of surrender and just lay in it. You get the vagus nerve, and you just calm down. And, there’s a real trust and learning process there. So become part of my daily routine and just something that I feel like, if you have access to one, there’s really no reason not to be doing it. And and I think there’s potentially a lot unbelievable reasons to do it. Health benefits, longevity, recovery, and sleep. Sleep being a big one for me, I think. I sleep with a chili pad, and I I notice I sleep better. And you have to be able to moderate. Right? I wear a woot not sponsored by any of these companies not paying me to say this stuff. But, yeah, any day to be able to show you. Right? And I think, I see a big difference in my sleep and recovery from using those products, so they’ve just become a main setting. In my training and in in my life. And and honestly for my family as well, my wife does this stuff now. My kids do too. So I think you’re teaching them really good habits. It should benefit them for the rest of their lives. Speaker Brett Gilliland: What’s your temperature? What do you keep it at? Speaker Marc Hodulich: So that that was a big point of contention. When I originally got out of my clothes, I kept it at thirty nine to forty. And now we’re about forty five degrees, and it it it kinda works in the way as I’m sure you have one as well. It keeps it in a three degree. Period. Right? The chiller turns on once you get two degrees away. So mine’s typically forty five, forty six degrees, which Speaker Brett Gilliland: you Speaker Marc Hodulich: get all the same benefits according to the podcast that I listen to. And it’s much more approachable than thirty nine forty was, which was honestly brutal. Yeah. Yeah. So I Speaker Brett Gilliland: don’t do it every day, like like you. So I mean, are are you so you’re an everyday guy. No miss. And, which that’s a big deal. So that’s but but it doesn’t get easier. Does it? Speaker Marc Hodulich: No. Not at all. I mean, look, I I will just and I’m away at an event or a scouting new location or in a partnership meeting or whatever it is. You’re gone for four or five days. It’s really hard get mentally ready to be like, okay. I can do this. I gotta go back into it, but it’s never easy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Are you a sonic guy? Speaker Marc Hodulich: I am as well. I have a sauna, and I’ve been doing that for a while. I used to have a seam, but I like the sauna a lot more. Yeah. Just able to stay in there longer. And, actually, it’s funny. It’s become a lot more social. Right? I know my partner Jesse used a lot for social, but it it it is. It is something at night. It’s nice to do after dinner. And, it’s just become a little bit not an everyday routine. I had a wood burning sauna for a while. I just got a new electric one, which, is being installed next week. It’s not infrared, actually. No. Okay. But, it’s got one of those hive, home heaters, the rocks Okay. That, really, really beautiful, modern looking. And, yeah, it’s just become it’s become something that, I feel like that, the coal plunge, And and then a few just kinda daily supplements have really been a game changer for me. So Yep. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And you say the feuds or you say that’s huge? Speaker Marc Hodulich: It’s huge. Yeah. No. It’s just been huge in terms of my, you know, daily oh, the few supplements. Sorry. Yeah. The few. I only take a few things, but I I just realized I lose, way too much sodium when I work out, and I used to only take salt pills or electrolytes, when I was actually doing a race. And that’s just been part of a daily program, and I’ve been taking athletic reins for a few years. And, really just enjoy that. I just feel like if I didn’t do anything healthy for my body that day, at least I at least I took some athletic greens that day. Right? And and got some greens. And, it’s a simple thing that has become, very easy when I travel to. Right? And, those types of things, making sure I drink enough water, get the electrolytes in and take my athletic greens. I feel like I’m at least doing a baseline of something that’s good for me. If I’m out of my normal workout routine. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. What, what’s someone do you use for the salt or the the electrolytes? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. So I’ve been taking precision hydration for a while. I just like that they have, the milligrams. So the total amount of sodium, they have tubes that are five hundred a thousand or fifteen hundred milligrams. And, that was very helpful for me when I did, like, super ultra endurance events, like, hundred mile runs, just I knew how many I knew how many milligrams I needed an hour, and it just made the math really easy. Right? Yeah. Rather than taking all pills and trying to figure out how many did I have or was, I could just take a fifteen hundred tablet and know I was good for an hour, and then take another one the next hour. Right? And, so I’ve been taking typically take their thousand milligram and drink that about twice a day. And it’s just a dissolvable tablet that I put in water. So Okay. It’s easy to travel with. And I just I lose a lot of salt when sweat. So I did a sweat test and just figured out how much salt I was losing. And and it’s just learning about your body. Everybody’s different. But I just realized one of my big fears in doing ultra endurance events was either over hydrating or not having enough electrolyte the way you fix that is just figuring out how much you sweat and realizing how much you need to replace not only of actual liquid, but the the salt the sodium, the magnesium that you need to get back in your body. So that just became a system that’s worked really well for me. And, I really liked the product. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what do you find as a business guy? Right? You’re a businessman, you’re a husband, you’re a father. But you wanna you wanna grow a business. Right? So what do you find that keeps you in peak performance? Is it just daily action every single day, everything we’re already talking about, or how do you continue find that extra gear to do all this personal stuff and the family stuff and yet still grow a kick ass business. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. I’ll tell you, there’s no such thing as balance. I had a Speaker Brett Gilliland: I agree. Speaker Marc Hodulich: So I better realize that you just have to optimize for certain things at at a point in time and then figure out, you know, what your kids need, what your wife needs, and actually make communication about this thing. So I did an Ironman in twenty seventeen. My wife has always been supportive, whatever I wanna do, and she said, not another one. Right? Is it the training Speaker Brett Gilliland: We’re tapping out. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. She said, I look, it was too much on her. I was just I was gone too much and, I was too tired when I was home. The amount of training that I was putting in. And, really, because it’s the multi discipline, right? You guys spend all the time in the pool, all the time, like, and then run. Whereas, you know, doing something like Leadville, your body just can’t run that much. You just break it down. So, where you can be on the bike for a couple hours a day, you can’t run that much. So what I realized is, like, when you start a business, it really needs all of your attention. And putting signing up to to launch a business, being an entrepreneur, whether you’re taking in capital or you’re bootstrapping it, and then signing up for an Ironman or a hundred miler, and then having a kid at the same time is probably not wise. Right? So you can’t always time everything in your life, but I feel like when I’ve had these periods where I’ve had a little bit of a lull, it was an it was a it was permission for me to say, okay. I’m gonna put something really big personal that I wanna go and do. Right? And maybe that’s an adventure, amount I wanna climb, a hundred mile or I wanna run, but I know that I’m in a season of life where I have the time to do that. My non negotiables always kinda been my kids. Right? They’re only gonna be in my the house so Gilliland and that’s why my wife said not another Iron man, because I didn’t miss time with my kids. I didn’t miss their sporting events. You know, when they were at baseball games, I was running in between in between games or running from one part to the next, but then I wasn’t with her. And so what I realized was after I did that, I needed to do something to support her. So she actually signed up into the the second twenty nine to twenty nine we ever did. And she never even done a ten k. But I went from having the support of her doing Ironman and then flipping it and supporting her in really her first race ever. And and that felt really good. It was really good for our marriage. So I don’t know if it’s advice. I’d say my lived experience is you have to go really deep when you’re an entrepreneur, but you don’t have to do that forever. And it depends on what your goals are. My goals with twenty nine and twenty nine are not to be the biggest company out there, not to be the most profitable. My my real goals are to have an impactful community to make to build legacy to have something that lasts. But maybe not maximize the profitability or the growth of the business. And that allows me to spend maybe some of that time that would may you may be spent on expansion if that was something that, was a success metric of mine. I can spend it on other things. Right? So I think it’s being very self aware. And also, honestly, just realizing you can’t do everything at once because other things are gonna suffer. And I’d rather do one thing or two things at an a plus than six. A b minus or a c plus. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Don’t you agree to, like, putting things? Like, for me, it’s in my calendar. And so it’s self management putting it in your calendar. Like, if you wanna be there for your kids or for your wife, whatever it may be, like, write it down on your calendar and then fill in the work spots around it. Would you agree with that? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Hundred percent. And and look, also, I think it’s just to be honest with people. Like, last night, I had a couple Gilliland I only didn’t wanna miss my son’s football So I just told him. I was like, look, I can hop on the phone, and I can watch a football game while I’m on the phone. My son only plays defense. I’ll talk to you when he when the offense is on the Right? It was just it was a way to say, look, I can talk to you tonight or I can talk to you on Friday. But if it’s urgent, I’m happy to get on the phone. Just understand there’s gonna be cheerleaders and abandon the background. Right. But you can be flexible, work from a lot of places, and and I think where we’re at. This is unbelievable. Gilliland it’s also a curse if you can’t put it down. And so finding that quiet time, we’re gonna get some real structured work done. And really Gilliland and Orion holiday way be still, right, and and honestly make some good progress. And then also you can work from anywhere. And and so I I kinda take that liberty to be able to work from a bunch of different places, and it allows me to spend more time with my family or friends or doing other things, adventure related. So long as I carved out that time to get the real work done before I get on the road? Speaker Brett Gilliland: So let’s talk about the, the idea stage. Right? A lot of people have ideas, and and I’m assuming I don’t know how the the twenty nine zero two nine came, about. But you have an idea, and then let’s say, you know what, man? Let’s go make it happen. Like, nobody’s doing this. Nobody anywhere was doing anything like this to my knowledge. How do you take an idea and then turn it into a business model? Sell it and then buy it back. Let’s unpack that. Speaker Marc Hodulich: I’ll start with, have really good people around you who will tell you what a bad I is too. Right? And and I’ll say that lightly. Like, I have a few people that I’ve worked with for years and I really trust, and I can go to them. I’ve been in YPO, young president’s organization for a while. Now, you know, I’d go to my forum and say an idea that we beat it up before I spend too much time on it. And sometimes that’s just me having to defend my idea first, and get more conviction in it before I go and do something. Other times, it’s battle testing something and being like, hey, maybe this isn’t as good as studying as I thought. But I think the thing that that stops most people is just action. Right? And most of the time, you think the initial idea isn’t really that good, but by going out there and actually starting it, doing it, hosting the event, launching the podcast, writing the book, once you get started in the process, you get feedback, then you’re iterating to figure out what the what the public wants. What the right product is, what the right placement is, what the right price point is. Right? If you think about the four ps of marketing, you really can’t sit in a room for months and figure it all out. And how many successful companies have been founded had a pivot. Almost all of them. Right? And, with twenty nine, I don’t know that there was pivot, but if you looked at what we did, event one, how we sold it, how we positioned it. It was really positioned as like farm to table food, great bands in a cool hiking challenge. And after the first event, Jesse and I looked at each other, Colin, and we’re like, This is really all about the story of climbing the height of everest. Why are we spending money on farm to table meals and getting these bans from your city to come in. They’re these wonderful no one wants to listen to them. People wanna spend all their energy on the mountain. Let’s take those dollars and invest it in training. In coaching and mindset talks and and speakers and actually do everything to to not rip out components of the event and and replace it with margin. But let’s figure out ways to actually reinvest those dollars in a way that supports what we think actually people are looking for. And in helping them achieve their goal better. So that led to really refining a product. And I think what we really did at the very beginning We had two rules. I think it’s very important to, hey, if you’re a business by yourself, it’s important to kinda know what your vision and values are and write them down. Yeah. That’s a business one. I wonder a lot of people don’t do it. The second thing is it is really important if you have partners to make sure you have alignment there. But, like, what are your goals? Right? And our goal was very simply to care the most. And I know that sounds ridiculous, But, like, it’s really true. We just say, hey, look, if we want to really build community, we don’t wanna have something that stands out as very different from the whole world in the Derek sport and the adventure sport. We’re gonna care the most. And and how does that play through? That plays through in the the people you work with, the people you hire, the vendors work with. And then We’re now in year seven, and, we had no pay partners. Any. Right? And and so you realize, like, I didn’t want our participants to be the product. Right? I I wanted the product to be hiking the mountain. Well, yes, we could have had a cheaper ticket if we had allowed people to come in, like, BMW Land Rover and sell their cars to this audience. Right? Because it’s an expensive ticket. And I didn’t want that because I’d be servicing the sponsor and their needs and not servicing the customer. So we were very customer centric and caring the most, and that that led us to build something It was very authentic. And anytime we had an opportunity to chase dollars and sponsors and we focused on the customer, it was easy to go back and say, what do we wanna initially do? And is that still in alignment now? So, you know, how did that lead to showing a company and buying it back. Well, at the end of the day, selling the business was something that There are just gonna be points in time, and I and I think a lot of it just has to do with timing. There was a time period in twenty one where evaluations were absolutely crazy. Across all sectors, you had companies looking to go public. Companies going public. You had unbelievable amounts of private equity and VC cash, flossing, flossing around. And there was opportunity that may not exist again. Now, look, that’s a little bit hindsight, but you knew at the time there was a way of being built. And in buying the company back was, It’ll an realignment of goals. Right? I stayed on a CEO, when we sold the business. My whole team came with me. So it was a strategic kind of partnership and acquisition. But when I realized that, like, long term, the company that acquired us, didn’t really have a plan that married once they had to pivot their business model, they became like, well, I’m a buyer. I love this. I wanna continue to do it. And and being mature enough, I think, impatient enough for that opportunity to happen and not forcing it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, and and I think too, staying involved in seeing some it’s not hitting your passion and your mission. Right? I mean, I think the the clear we are is entrepreneurs as business owners. I mean, there is a clear passion and mission for what we’re doing in our firm. And I would assume if I got displaced from that but could still see, you know, kinda like the goldfish looking or looking at in at the goldfish, I could see this thing not going down the path I want. I I I don’t want that. Right, man. I want my baby back. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. And look, some of it’s just I became a lot more self aware. Right? Like, I had a business partner buy me out of a business. I had, a business go under. Right? And so I’d had success, some success had some failure, and then you have a big, a big win, like, selling the business. And I think a lot of that as an entrepreneur, you think it’s gonna provide some validation for what you’re doing. And what I realized was like, this is my passion. It wasn’t a mistake to sell the business. It was just that I wanted to buy it back almost more than I real thought I wanted to sell it. Right? And that’s because there was such an alignment in my purpose, in my passion. And and look, The acquisition was great. My whole team stayed with me. I continued to do the same job. And I just realized I’m a really bad employee. I’m an entrepreneur. And Right. You know, I I thought, oh, I’m gonna get through on a business unit. I’m gonna get to acquire other businesses like this and put my business model on Gilliland I realized that I’d rather just only have to answer to myself or my partners, collaboratively than than have a bot Right? I just realized there’s a reason I left as an entrepreneur in the beginning and, in recognizing that, I would be much happier going forward maybe even less financial opportunity, but more controller in my day to day was, it was much more valuable to me at that point of, that point of my life. And still, that’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, great learning. Right? It’s a great learning to know you just can’t work for somebody. I’m I’m not an employee myself. So it’s, it’s it’s good to know. So I saw one of your posts. You said there’s growing old versus growing up. Talk about that. Yeah. I mean Can you recall that post? Speaker Marc Hodulich: My dad is super close. I’m close to both my my my parents, and they’ve been married for fifty plus years. And all I see, my dad is, like, He still has fun all the time. Right? He’s still very fucking hard. And, like, yeah, you you’re gonna have to grow all at some point. That doesn’t mean you you have to to to mature too much to a point to not be able to laugh at yourself to try new things. And, so, yeah, it’s super important to me to stay young at heart. And, you know, I say to my kids, I hope this comes across humble, but we were at a a football game last week, and the the the steps on the bleacher are pretty big. And I’m I’m forty three. Like, I’m not thirty three anymore. Like, I think I am. And I myself in really good shape, but I looked at my son, and my my, my older son, because my younger son was on football field, and I was like, you know, look around, look at these dad’s, like, gingerly walking down these steps that are like my age around the same age. And I was like, I jumped down those things. Right? Right. I don’t wanna get old. Right? Like, I’m gonna try new things, but you have to work hard for that. Right? You have to You have to say no to some bad meals, not drink as much. You gotta get in the gym. You gotta do things, but I wanna preserve the ability of me being not only kind of young at heart and maybe even a little immature with my sense of humor or my ability to laugh at myself the way I approach things, but also physically just be able to do stuff for a longer period of time than most people my age are able to. I realize forty three still really young. But I wanna be able to do the same stuff when I’m seventy three. And I really do believe that’s possible, but it takes a mindset of kind of, like, staying staying young at heart to, I think, be able to achieve that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I I was just, last week. I went and, we played thirty six holes of golf per day out of bandon dunes out in Oregon. So if you’re a golfer, it’s phenomenal. Highly recommended to anybody listening. It’s a golfer, but we talked about it. You know, I’m forty five, and I’m like, man, this is a young man’s game. We’re walking because there’s no there’s no golf So it’s thirty six holes a day. We’re walking fifteen to seventeen miles a day. Thankfully, we had a caddy. But but it’s a lot. Right? By the end of the, you know, the first couple days, you’re you’re hurt So we did that for four straight days. And, but it’s but I had the exact same thought, man. Like, I don’t wanna not continue to be able to do this stuff because I’m quote unquote too old. And my actual long term goal in life is to play golf on my hundredth birthday and and, you know, shoot shoot under a hundred. You know? And so, that’s that’s Speaker Marc Hodulich: the goal. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So, yeah, I think I think having that stuff, but it’s important now. So what does that routine like for you? I know you said you’d like to run the cold plunge and the sun and all that, but kinda break that down for you, your food choices, and even your exercise. What’s that look like in a busy world today? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Look, I’m not as regimented as what people think. Right? Okay. I’m really regimented when I have a goal. If I’m training for an Ultra, a big race, whatever it is, I don’t mix a workout. Right now, I think it’s about finding some some way to move every day. I don’t know that these are, like, really amazing life hacks for people, but, I take a lot of calls. I’m on the phone a lot. My team’s remote. I walk constantly. Right? Now my friends will tell me walking’s not working out. So on one of those calls a day, I put on a thirty pound rucksack. You know, and and you walk four or five Gilliland thirty pounds when you’re back up and down hills, you build a lot of strength, core strength, back strength, leg strength, And I don’t consider that a workout. Right? So my workout typically is I run five miles a day, four days a week. And, I lift weights two to three days a week. And then, hopefully, somewhere in there, and depending on travel and what’s going on, there’s one long workout, whether it’s a long bike ride, whether it’s a long run, something of the duration of, you know, an hour and a half to two hours. Right? But food just through my nature of kind of trying to maximize as much time in the day, I don’t sit down for lunch. Today, the first thing I ate was through the clock. I realized I was intermittent fasting years ago, not even knowing Right. So, you know, I take my kids to school every day. That’s a non negotiable for me, and my wife has her time in the morning, and I take the kids to school. And then I’m working out. Sometimes before I take them, sometimes after, I’m really flexible, but I make sure I do something active every single day that I would consider a workout. And I don’t consider taking a conference call with a rucksack on a workout. It’s just I’m being active rather than sedentary. So I think for me, it’s always been about having enough hydration I don’t drink soft drinks. Like, these are simple things. Right? I don’t snack a lot. And I try to eat as healthy as we can. We try to cook in you know, three to four nights a week. But there’s no, like, super strict diet. It’s more or less just like a little bit of moderation. And a lot of activity. And I’ve just found, like, I haven’t gained weight, in probably thirteen to fifteen years, unless I was trying to to gain weight, but I’m really active. I’m on my feet constantly. I’m playing with my kids a lot. And, I’m only really in a routine where I’m tracking every workout and all that type of stuff. If there’s something big on my calendar. Otherwise, I’m just trying to be six to eight weeks away of hard training, be ready for almost anything. Right? I try to stay in good enough state And that’s something I learned from the, an amazing endurance coach, who works in our staff, Chris Howe, who’s rich roles, personal coach, and two time Olympic. He’s like, look, all my athletes are six or eight weeks ready from almost doing anything. Like, if you wanna go run a hundred mile run and I’m coaching you, six weeks from now, you could be ready. If six weeks of heart training. And while I’m not on that caliber, I’m pretty close to where if I put my head down for six weeks, I I maintain a level of fitness that could have me ready for almost anything in the six to week period. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what’s the next experience, man? What are you doing with your kids? And because that’s something I’m thinking about. My oldest is a senior, and I’ve got a, you know, senior a sophomore eighth grade, fourth grade, One of my first, college visit with my son, sorry Auburn, it was at Old Miss, another SEC there. And, it was fun. We went to the Grove, did a little tailgate before the ball game is incredible. But, you know, I’m looking for those those experiences. So what what do you have out there that you think would be cool with the kids, whether it’s adventurous, running, riding, swimming, hiking, whatever it may be. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. So, two things that I learned each independently from someone else, not my own ideas. One, when each of my boys turns thirteen, I had one turn this year. They get a pick anywhere in the United States, they wanna go on a trip. It’s just the two of us for three I had an opportunity to to go to London, and go to some Premier League games, and my thirteen year old super into that. So he said nice. Yeah. You can the US in London. So I gotta hop the ante for my eleven year old, when he turns thirteen. And then when they turn eighteen, you get to pick anywhere in the world they wanna go. And my wife and I, the four of us will go on a family trip together. And that’s been something that gets talked about a lot. And I want them to be really invested in it. They’re gonna have to plan it but it’s already being talked about in our family. So those are, like, two things at thirteen and eighteen, kind of, like, going into eighth Gilliland then going into college. I feel which is a really important time. One for me to just do one father, son, one to do as a family. As far as other adventures, you know, I found for me, the things that we enjoy most of the families if we get out of our comfort zone. And so I’ve really enjoyed going to other countries and immersing ourselves in the culture. And, experience that I’ve loved, you know, we we went to Patagonia. We’ve gone to Costa Rica. And they’re super, super active vacations. Right? Like, you want a vacation afterwards to just rest. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Marc Hodulich: But I want my kids to see the world. And I think, you know, even in the United States, you know, we tend to spend our summer We spent a few weeks in telluride over here. This last summer, because I had events in Jackson Hole and Sun Valley, we spent time in those locations. And, like, getting out in the mountains, There’s something to do every day. And I’ve really enjoyed adventures where my kids had to put a decent amount of effort into something. So the big hikes, staying up paddleboarding down rivers, the mountain bike riding. That stuff’s been very rewarding, even taking them up their first, like, thirteen or next year, probably, like, I’m a fourteen or with them. You know, safe routes, but, like, a lot of work. Right? And then you get to pay off of a view I really enjoyed those experiences where they kind of complained at the beginning. I did a dirt bike adventure, and I never ridden a dirt bike. We all had to learn how to ride dirt bikes together, camp out. I don’t like camping. Right? It ended up being something that was amazing. I did it with another entrepreneur and his son there were there were actually like four dads and four sons. So I found stuff like that to be really gratifying too. You have to come on and be able to go together. And then you’re doing it in an adventure where it’s not easy, but I I also think that the memories are so much stronger from doing those types of activities that we’ve done together. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s incredible. Yeah. We do the thirteen and then they’re, the summer after they graduate. So it’ll be our first one finally, not finally because it went so damn fast, but our big trip, but They’re they’re they’re thinking a little bigger, man. Our our our first one when he was thirteen, it was a COVID. So we kinda got, you know, screwed in We ended up having a staycation here in Saint Louis, but it was nice. It was fun. And then, the next one picked Chicago, and then the the last one we just did in April was, he picked California. So makes us to see in a in a few years what our next one does. So, last couple of questions here, man. You you talked about earlier about dreaming big, and And we’ve really kinda been dreaming big and talking big this whole time. But what is that process for you? Because, like, for me, it’s it’s this black journal here. It’s setting down. It’s spending time myself. Thinking, it’s dreaming, it’s strategizing. Do you have a process like that that you could share with our listeners, or what is that dreaming big process for you? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. So I found works really well for me is I need to be moving, and I need to be outdoors. And I gotta get in a place that inspires me. And look, I Atlanta’s a beautiful like it, but it doesn’t inspire me. So what I’ve found works really well for me is to go to a beautiful place, spend time in nature, without any distraction. Anytime I run, I don’t bring my phone. I don’t wear an Apple Watch. You know, I wanna be away from devices. I think I’d be really good thinking there. And then You know, look, Jesse and our partners in a few businesses, and and and Jesse, for those little gnomes, a credible entrepreneur, super inspiring person, but if you think you have a big idea, Brain is someone who’s had ideas for ten times. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’d be bigger. Yeah. Speaker Marc Hodulich: And and and and get pushed in that sense. I think that whether it’s related to twenty nine or twenty nine or not, when I’m thinking about something that I think is a game changer and you you you have a circle of friends and peers that are thinking big, and I don’t always think that that big means more money. Right? But just challenging yourself, a big adventure or whatever it is. Right? Having people there that you really look up to challenge today, are you thinking big enough or are you limiting yourself? And sometimes you’re starting really big and then refining on the way down, but I think that, that who you surround yourself with matters so much? Because when I’m thinking about adventures I’m gonna go and do, I’m comparing adventures I would do to Colinor Brady, who’s one of my partners, who’s got ten world records, and is he only with the first person to pull a sled across Antarctica for sixty something days self supported. Right? So think of an adventure as something no human has ever done before. And therefore, when I get ideas from him, it’s because we get training routines. Right? And that’s not diminishing what I’m doing, but I’m also not going to a circle of friends that are so impressed with what they’ve done. Yeah. They’re gonna think anything I do is outstanding. Surrounding myself with peers who have done such impressive things. I mean, I I personally have two close friends that devrode the Atlantic. I mean, that’s nuts. Right? I would never stop growing. Right? But when you start talking to them, they’re like, oh, did you know you can do this between Antigo and this? And that’d be really cool for, like, two days. Right? Or did you know you can Speaker Brett Gilliland: ski different? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. You can ski across Finland. Right? It’s eight day cross country skiing, and they set up you know, tend for you to sleep in it. So now me and my friends are kind of considering how is that something we do for our next guys trip. Right? So it’s kind of expanding who you speak to around these things and not not being nervous around sharing your ideas because a lot of times my friends are actually challenging me to think bigger And I’m probably a little too focused on something that is probably too attainable. And and, you know, they’re pushing me to think bigger because they’ve had such big experiences themselves. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, seaside was on your, location thing for your deal. So watercolor seaside, you love thirty a down there? Speaker Marc Hodulich: I do. I really do. My parents started going down there in, like, the early two thousands. And that’s been changed Speaker Brett Gilliland: a bit. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yes. Changed a lot. And I think, you know, it’s easy to look back, but Gilliland say, oh, I should’ve bought real estate. I should’ve looked at this, whatever. It’s it’s interesting to learn from those moments too. Right? And and the people who did and the companies that invested there in the vision that they had to see what transpired to. To me, like, I I don’t look back and say I missed an opportunity to look back and say, what can I learn? From that area? What could I learn from what those people did? Because they took a lot of big risks. And, it’s I I cheer them for winning because, yeah, that area loaded It’s become a great family place for us. We’ll be down there for thanksgiving this year with my parents and and I’ll love it down there. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. We go there a couple times a year. I’ll be down there. I go in two times for the family and one time with a buddy’s golf trip down there. And I I had the same learning moment, man. I made an offer in a house in nineteen, went back and did the head scratcher in this summer and I saw what it sold for. I’m like, wow. That’s that’s a humbling moment. What do I learn from that one? But, hey, you live and learn. Right? Where do our listeners find more of you? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. I mean, look, twenty nine and twenty nine. I mean, just Google two 09:02 nine, just the numbers. And then my Instagram panel is Mark, m a r c two 09:02 nine. So I’m pretty synonymous with our brand. Yeah. I couldn’t breathe it. And and, yeah, we’d we’d encourage anyone whether you’re gonna check out our event or something else. Like, put something big on your calendar. Right? I think it’s, putting something big on your calendar gives you, the opportunity to to be more interesting. And and you’d be surprising how much people just really care. About you doing something different, whether that’s running a marathon, whether it’s, you know, starting a podcast, whatever it is. I think, you know, putting something big on your calendar, allows you to be part of a conversation that you’re not starting with other people. They’re starting it with you. And, and not to be egotistical, but I just think it it’s it’s very interesting how that then leads into business and other opportunities because you’re just doing something that people find of interest. And, you’re continuing to challenge yourself or something all too often people think about doing it, but don’t do. So I would I would just encourage people to find something no matter how scary surround yourself with people that will support you in doing it, and that’s really what we’ve been trying to do at twenty nine and twenty nine since the beginning. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Also, creates a sense of urgency for your training, man, to stay in shape. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. I need that. I need that for sure. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome, man. Well, Mark, thanks so much for being with me on the circle of success. Hang with me when I hit finish here. And then, but man, really appreciate you being on the show.

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Amy Parvaneh, a successful business owner and entrepreneur. Amy shares her experiences of starting her own business and her challenges, emphasizing the importance of developing technical skills and personal branding. She also talks about dealing with competition and anxiety and provides advice for people who don’t enjoy networking. Tune in to learn how to break stereotypes and succeed in your career! https://youtu.be/stbegXbLGOA   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilliland, and Damey, to Damien. Today, I’ve got Amy, Parvaneh with me. How you doing? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: I’m doing great. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s good to have you. I forgot to ask you where are you calling in from? What part of the country? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Orange County, California. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Orange County. Beautiful. It’s an awesome area. We were out in my wife and four kids. We were in LA, Santa Monica area, which I know is not Orange County, but out there in April. So it was a lot of fun. It’s a cheap place to live, it looks like. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Oh, very cheap. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s like, goodness gracious. I’m like, this place is great. Was crazy. Yeah. With four Gilliland, my wife and I, you know, it’s like you couldn’t do anything for under a couple hundred dollars for, like, lunch. It was nuts. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: It’s not New York though. At New York, I I bought one latte for ten dollars. I think I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like before? Or Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It was nuts. We the first night we got there, we got to our hotel, and I ordered a glass of wine for my wife, and I got an old fashioned, you know, been traveling and guy comes back. He’s like, gotta be fifty seven dollars. I’m like, oh, alright. Welcome to welcome to California. So, anyway, We could chat about that all day, but you are the founder and CEO of Select Advisors Institute. You are big in the RIA space, which is what visionary wealth advisors were registered investment advisor. And you do outside CMO work. It’s a chief marketing officer type work, and I know branding and sales helping firms across the country and referral a referral litics is another thing that you all do and Gilliland, so we’ll talk about that throughout the podcast. But if you can, maybe just give us a little background, Amy, and what’s made you the woman you are today. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I started off my own career in finance and investment banking at Citi Group. I actually started my career on, the same week as 09:11. So talk about your upbringing, in your career, the two towers, crumble in front of me. So that was a very, very challenging, obviously, view to have as a, you know, off your career. But I was also the beginning of me falling in love with the financial industry. I’ve, first and foremost, always myself a lover of the industry of investments finance. But while I was in investment bank gave, I found I really love talking about corporate banking and, you know, M and A and mergers, you know, you know, P and L statements as much as I like working with specific individuals, individuals around their wealth and around their financial needs. So I went to business school, at Duke University, and I it was recruited by Goldman Sachs. Went through about twenty five rounds of interviews with them, did my internship there. And got a job in their private wealth management division in New York where their minimum account size was about ten million dollars. And this is when I was twenty six years old, knew Speaker Brett Gilliland: no one that even had a million dollars Speaker Amy Parvaneh: letter along that level. Wow. But one thing I did know was that I needed to succeed in that career because it was just such a amazing opportunity for me I was willing to do cup of noodles a mindset and just hustle, because I felt like it was kinda like, it’s like, I felt like I didn’t belong there, frankly, because I was, like, that was, like, a lot of like Parvaneh, you know, Yale. It grew up with a lot of wealth, and I was, like, well, don’t have any of that. So that really was a great thing for me because I almost made me want to outshine everyone else. And so I was there at Goldman for about five and a half years there. While I was there, I broke a lot of records, as far as, you know, how fast I brought in clients, the type of clients I got front of. And I just fell in love with, like, the the finding of Speaker Brett Gilliland: the Sure. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Like the finding the sourcing it, finding who’s may just made well. How do I get in front of them? What do say to them. And they told me this is what you’re supposed to say. This is the script. And I was like, if I say that within a year, I’m gonna get laid off. It’s not really gonna work for me. So I really also embraced, honing in on your own language, what you could feel really comfortable saying, within the purview of a larger organization. So I I really enjoyed that. And I all along while I was at Goldman, I was like, I wanna be a business owner. You know, even though I know I’m like owning a book here, I don’t feel like I will ever have that level of, you know, zero ceiling that a business owner has, where it’s like, I if I work hard, I literally will, like, it’s like one for Gilliland so I left to start my own business just found that I was expecting my own, my first baby. And so as you know, that’s horrible timing. Went to join another large, established company that was Pymco, and at Pymco, it opened up my eyes to the entire world of RIA’s. I went from a warehouse world to RIA’s. At pimco, my job was to pretty myself to RIA’s, be a consultant to them around Pymco strategies, but Speaker Brett Gilliland: Sure. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Knowing me, I wasn’t there passionate about talking about fake income as much as I was about, like, what is this? Where am I? Like, how is this three man shop managing five hundred million dollars? It seemed crazy to me that they would be wearing so many different hats. So in two thousand fourteen, even though I was expect like, I had my second child, I was like, this is it. I’m starting my business. Moved from New York to California, even Pymco, I was in the New York office. And, I basically started select advisers Institute. And my first, take on, you know, every business has different chapter. My first take on it was just to go help RIA sell. Teaching them how to go prospect. And then I would say, okay, when you go to this meeting, like, you know, over the next two weeks, do this, this, and this. So I would be their coach. And they would come back and not have done a lot of those things. So I realized pretty early on, I needed to actually do the work for them too, do the marketing work, take that on, So long story short short since two thousand fourteen, I basically built the infrastructure needed to be a replacement for an entire marketing division, that, you know, a, a Pymco or a Goldman or a Vanguard has. Like, you know, all the design all that those people, you know, one man or five man or twenty man shop, can’t typically focus on those or or bring those in house. So we do a lot of that as an outsource. Speaker Brett Gilliland: A niche in the financial services market only. Right? That’s that’s all you work with. The financial advisors? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Absolutely. Ninety percent of our clients are RIA’s ten percent in the Wire House world, we do coaching for them. But, yeah, only financial advisors. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what we know that from a lens of what you work with and and how you do that there’s obviously more people than just financial advisors and listen to this. There are a lot of financial advisors that listen. But, but let’s so let’s have that discussion today really around, kind of the way I would look at it is how do you how do you promote creativity? Right? I think a lot of people, whether you’re an attorney less than this or a financial advisor accountant, whatever it may be, we wanna be creative. Right? We have creative minds, but we may not have the team to do it. And let’s say they haven’t met you yet. They haven’t hired you and you your firm. How do you promote creativity in your world, and and time to promote creativity? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Yeah. That that’s part of the reason I actually stopped being a financial advisor myself is because I feel like my right brain, the creative side is a lot more powerful than my left brain. So I think the first thing is everyone should admit to themselves which side am I on? Am I more creative or am I more the analytical, the numbers per and where people get into trouble is where they are the the numbers person. They they’re very good at the money management. And the actual, you know, of leadership skills, but they want to somehow also do the creative side. Right? They wanna, like, get on to social media, for example, but social media isn’t all about, like, uploading your latest q three reports and portal, you know, your your latest, you know, analysis on what’s going on in the markets and having a line out the door. It requires creativity, being raw, being Gilliland so if if you’re able to figure out that you’re not a creative and outsource that to someone who will be creative for you and not get in the way within the compliance fair boundaries, I think that’s the most important is, marketing does require a lot of creativity and thinking outside the box. And financial folks, a lot of times, they have to think inside the box. So you know, it it I think then you you have a really good equation. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. What do you see in most businesses are doing to fail in social media and what they doing to succeed in social media? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: The only thing I’ve seen that works on social media has been literally, branding the human within, you know, within the within the elements of, a firm as well as really, you know, providing value that could be shareable. You know, you look at LinkedIn, some of the things that are like, ten thousand likes and seven thousand reshares. They’re really going, you know, out of their way to create things that are really giving it away. Right? Giving away a lot of content. And I wanna share them. You know, other people wanna share to them. Or you talk about you as a human being, you know, kinda like you said, you might you saw my post about me revealing my actual name or talking about my vulnerabilities, the more vulnerable you could become, the more people could feel close to you without having met you yet. So those are the really the the only ways that I’ve seen really work on social media. The folks that are not, unfortunately, it’s they they know it too. They’re not like they’re they’re not blind to it, but they’re not willing to take that risk. They and I call it a risk because it is a risk. You’re really putting yourself out there. They are not willing to even have, like, a little typo or a little, like, you know, misspelling, but those are the little things that actually make you human and they make it look, you know, like you’re a human being too. And those folks, you’re just not gonna get the views or the, you know, any anything out of this. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, it’s funny you say that. So I I hundred percent believe in that as Gilliland the the transparency, the vulnerability that we have to have, I think, as as leaders, as as advisors, when with our clients, but also on that social media front. I I’ve been very open with my struggles with anxiety throughout my life and to produce countless videos on how I’ve overcome it, how important it is to me, the meditation, the journaling, all these different things that I’ve done, And I noticed in my research for you, you you struggled that as well. Right? And I think so immediately when I read that, I’m like, okay, there’s a connection right there. Right? We both have shared even though you don’t know that about me, I know that about you, is there’s an immediate connection there that allows for us to connect on a deeper level that maybe I wouldn’t know if you just put out what happened in, you know, q two of the stock market. Right? Is so I’m just validating. So So talk about that. You were you shared that. You have intense anxiety you shared. I’ve had it as well. Still have it. How do you overcome that? And how are you how have you made that your friend? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. And I think you’re talking about my latest post that I wrote recently that I think there are whole societies. So, like, especially the younger generation, they’re so worried about anxiety. They think anxiety is like the biggest culprit that could, you know, disable them and they run from a lot of anxiety, like, you know, the whole term anxiety, a panic attack where I had an anxiety attack. Right. And I found that I used to, you know, run away from it or let it weaken me. But now, you know, as you age, you you learned coping mechanisms, and it’s not even a coping mechanism. I actually embrace it. It’s like stage fright. Someone once told me if you don’t have stage fright, you’re not gonna do well on stage. Well, I I embrace it because I think, that level of anxiety is just fear inside you to keep going and and do better. And it’s been, that basically the fuel for me to, to embrace and be like, what am I what am I worried about? You know, I’m worried about not getting clients, but let me go get more clients right now. Helped me. And, you know, and I think just being able to, like, extra I exercise a lot. I’m really into fitness. And I like to do those alone I like to run alone, that allows me to, like, just meditate, you know, think. I don’t wanna turn that into another competition. You know, people are like, will you run marathons? I’m like, no. I don’t need any more competition in my life as a business owner. We’re competing all day long. So Yep. But that’s been really helpful to me. And, you know, just like re re living the, I guess, reigniting the anxiety into a good thing. Been really great. My Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’ve I’ve found I’ve found too for me. It’s, if I talk trash to it, like, if I’m getting anxious about some thing. It’s like, alright, man. Like, I know what you’re doing here. I’ve seen this movie before. I know the end. I’m gonna be fine. Like, you know, I kinda talked to it. And then I immediately try to redirect my mind into something positive and something I’m excited for. Like, even if it’s travel anxiety, getting on a plane and traveling and doing all that stuff. I found last few years that that if if I embrace it, yes, it’s there. I see it. I feel you I hear you. You’re on my left shoulder here talking to me, but now, like, kinda flip that thing off and come over here and talk to the right shoulder, and and try to give that one power. And I’ve also read that the brain doesn’t know the difference between excitement and anxiousness. Right? The wavelengths are the same between the two things. If you actually put it under, you know, whatever they put it under some imaging center, the brain is the same for excitement as it is for anxiety. And so now it’s trying to trick your body into understanding, hey, maybe it’s not as anxious as it is. I’m really excited about this. I’m really excited about getting to go So when you hear me say that, what comes to mind for you? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. I mean, that I think is is critical. Like, you know, I know it sounds, weird, but sometimes I tell myself if I was to have a glass of wine right now, this Problem still exists. Right? It’s all mental. Right? And that’s actually another thing is, like, you know, reducing I feel like our society is, like, fueled drugs, alcohol. We’re trying to let this go, but why not face it and see, like, can I turn this into a positive thing? Can I, you know, can I turn this, like, anxious? So I, like, you know, I wanna I wanna bottle up my energy and be able to use it in a positive way. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. So what what have you had in your career that maybe has held you back? Maybe it’s anxiety. Maybe it’s something different. But do you have anything that’s really kinda held you back for a little bit? But then you broke through it and your comfort zone got a lot bigger. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. That’s a great question. So my comfort zone, yeah, I always, like, was worried about, you know, not not being good enough you know, because a lot of times you look at businesses and they’re either funded by someone else or they are, you know, they’ve got They’ve got all the right recipes, you know, and I always feel like I, you know, I don’t like to promote myself or not for, you know, nothing. Right? Or I’m not in an old boys club to, you know, to be networking and things like that. So I found believe it or not, Brad, that the number one thing that’s helped me, and it helped me at Goldman, it helped me at Pymco, and it’s obviously helped me with what I do. It’s like, the good old fashioned be the one that actually puts in the work, right, puts in the real work So I’m the one, like, on Saturdays. Like, my my kids are, you know, I have classes and things like, I’m working every single Saturday. Like, from eight till 3PM, I’m working. I’m logging that time in. And when that pays off, every single time that reduces my my worry that I’m gonna be behind, because I know I’m out out working you know, anyone that I’m worried about. So I think that that ability to rely on your work ethic and your ability to think outside the box. And the other thing is my brain. I feel like my brain always gives me great ideas, and I know that’s all like crazy. But, like, even during COVID, I was like, holy crap. What are we gonna who’s gonna wanna coach right now? You know, during this crisis. And, like, ideas came to, wait, what about this? And, like, I feel like that’s always been really there for me that survivalist, like, mine said, that you need as a business owner to pivot and not go down that same. So my whether you call it my brain or a calling, like, I keep getting, like, ideas. That I rely on because that’s always helped me, you know, think about new ways to improve my career. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So how do you how do you work with those ideas? Like, I so I’m a idea person as well. There’s constantly things rolling through my mind. But what what do you do with those ideas? You have a spot in your phone? Do you have a journal? Like, what do you do with them? And then do you test them out to make sure they’d work before you kinda go live with any of those? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Well, when you’re really good at marketing, that’s actually a problem because you could literally Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Didn’t turn off. Yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Well, no. You could also make any business kind of work out. Like, I always think my biggest problem right now is I don’t have time because I have like five other business ideas that, like, you know, I could, like, kick off it. Like, I could start a kid’s school program. I’m really I think there’s so much of a need right now for different types of schooling. Like, teaching kids etiquette, teaching kids leadership public speaking. If I had the time, I would I would build it. So what I do is I do have, like, on my to do list. We used to use this program called to do is for project management. Now we all moved to Asana, which I really love. But I have I have like a personal section and it’s, like, called ideas. And I just, like, write it, you know, I just write it down when it’s, like, outside the really out there. But a lot of times when it’s like business ideas, a lot of times I just test it out with clients. I say like, oh, we we also offer this. We do offer this. If you’re gonna come, I do that. So I I’m also a really big fan of, you know, the Kevin Cosner movie, field of dreams that says Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: You build it, they will come. I believe the opposite. If they come, you will make it. Is, like, it’s always a philosophy. So I always, like, kinda pitch the idea softly to clients as they we do this. Just to see if because as long as I know we could do this. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: And then if there’s demand, I build it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So you kinda build it for you build it second after you see there’s a manned. And, yeah, I I I watched the Richard Branson on Master Class or whatever it was, and he talked about, you know, he started an airline, he started a magazine, all these things. He started out of frustration of another process. Right? He was standing in line. It took forever, bag, you know, to pay money for his bag, all this stuff. He’s like, you know what? I’ll fix this. I’m just gonna start my own airline. So it’s kinda what I’m hearing from you is that somebody needs it, somebody desires it, and then you don’t get stuck by the old paralysis by analysis is what I’m hearing. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: No. I don’t. In fact, that’s the problem. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love that. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Like, running with too many ideas and if I had the time because I know SEO really well, I know blog writing skills, I know how to promote a social media. I could easily get that up and running. But right now, I have enough on my play doing that for my existing client. So Yeah. I feel like not only do I have selected advisors, but I have like, you know, twenty at a time clients that we’re promoting, helping the market. So it’s more than enough. Yeah. Exactly. And our clients are really like they’re different than financial advisors because they’re a lot hands on, and it’s almost like I’m part of their team, basically. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. That’s awesome. So when you hear that though, I talked about paralysis by analysis. Are you seeing that out in the marketplace and what advice would you have for that man or woman listening right now? How to overcome that because I’ve seen it and it’s hard to just tell us me, hey, don’t worry about it, man. Just just go do what, you know, the rest of us do and just go build it as you go and and it’s they don’t don’t work that way. So how do you help them with that? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Well, that happens all the time, you know, with the paralysis, analysis by over analysis. In fact, I I have a test on my, on my website that I actually created literally to help people, like, make a decision really quickly. Which I could send you. But I think it it all boils down to that word that we use, which is risk. Right? A firm, let’s say, has been in business for thirty, forty, fifty years. They’ve built their client base, and they did it by word-of-mouth, building this great reputation. Now, if it’s not in here, it comes Amy and telling them to, like, let’s start posting on social media. And they’re like, well, we haven’t needed this before, and now we could potentially this is the part that they’re worried about. We could potentially risk our reputation. And yeah, I agree. Your reputation is all you have to go for it. So I’ve believe it or not, I’ve stopped basically pushing so hard. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s another thing you you learn as you Speaker Amy Parvaneh: grow, the more mature you I’ve stopped pushing it and I just do it for my social media. I go crazy with social media. I test on my account So I could show them like, look, I did this. I shared my full name. I shared my vulnerabilities, and it worked. Now, you could choose if you wanna do that to kinda like painting, you know, like, you could keep your room clean and let them make their room a mess and see which one they choose they like more. I’d like to talk to your blue in the face, telling people to do social media. And then if it really doesn’t work, because so much if it out of your control, then you’re left with, you know, an embarrassment. So I just take them to the water and I let them drink if they want it. I’ll build out their platform. I’ll make it look as ready to go. I’ll write them their message. The firms and the clients that do really well are the ones that are like, you’re the expert. I mean, you just go wild. Go do what you want. Just run it by compliance, and those are the ones that get the traction, get the get the views, get the followings, and, you know, they also understand it’s a long term game. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Just like I wouldn’t ask a financial advisor what’s been your performance over the past year? You know, marketing is the same. You’re building equity. You’re building, you know, something that will pay dividends for years. Is the way I look at marketing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I think so many people too, they wanna see that immediate thing. Well, Brett, I’ve been I’ve been doing this posting thing for, like, two months. I’m like, Dude, congrats. I’ve been doing this podcast for, you know, six and a half years. Like, it doesn’t happen overnight. It’s it’s gotta be consistent. You gotta show up. Gotta do the work. And, and and it is what it is. And you fail along the way. You succeed along the way, but you gotta take action. You gotta do it. And so this morning I was with, I don’t know, forty five or fifty high school kids, and it was fun because I get to speak to them and and, you know, you bring out this energy they have at seventeen, eighteen years Gilliland and it and, you know, they ask questions that makes you dust off the old, you know, folders and files of things you did when you’re in your twenties and and now here I am in my mid forties. And and so it was a good use of time this morning, but it it made me think about a question I wanted to ask for you today is advice for yourself. That was something they asked me a lot of. What advice would you give yourself of the seventeen, eighteen year old or the twenty two year old, Brett? What advice would there be? And and, you know, I kinda came up with my three things. But the first one was just relax dude. It’s gonna be okay. Right? Yeah. And then I gave him three other things. But what advice would Amy have, for that, you know, twenty, twenty five year old, Amy, that maybe needing some advice at this moment. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Well, one of the things when I was you know, starting out as a financial advisor, and I see this happening with a lot of the younger advisors too. Is this like you know, imposter syndrome, do I belong here? Is this sixty year old guy gonna be giving me his money? I think that’s a very common thing that people who are young in their, you know, I still, like, I can’t believe I’ve even said, like, that I feel I I I feel like not that old, but Right. But I I feel it’s weird, like, talking to your all younger self. But, yeah, I mean, I feel like if you don’t have the gray hair, if you if you don’t have the experience, you’re going to feel, you know, kind of, like you’re missing something. And one of the things I did was, I was not, finance, as I mentioned, was not my expertise. Like, I could talk all day long about who just sold their business. You asked me how the, you know, the what the Fed did that day or interest rates or the FX markets and I would freeze. That was my Achilles heel, one of them that I felt like, oh, you know, like, I I would dread it. And I think one of the things I would teach I would tell myself, looking back, is work on those technical skills that you feel you’re low on because the younger you are, the better you better be those areas to make up for that, lack of experience. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: You know, a sixteen year old guy would take a guy in his twenties really seriously, if he was talking with confidence about the markets, even if he wasn’t there during all the historical, you know, crises and, you know, happenings in the market. The other thing is I I tried too hard, and I think I wrote about this too in some of my posts. I tried too hard to fit in, you know, to be, like, you know, to do the small talk, play golf. And I felt like those were, like, I needed to do those, but you don’t need to do those. Right? Like, try to outshine and other other places, in order to, you know, to really succeed. And, yeah, I think the other thing I would have done is you know, started even building my business even sooner. You know, that would be another thing is, like, if you feel you’re good at selling, and marketing yourself and personal branding, go work for yourself because otherwise you’re just really, you know, kind of making someone else successful, you know, like they say, they’ll work eighty five hours, then work forty hours for someone else. Yeah. So, yeah, But only if you know down in your core that you’re great at selling and marketing yourself because those are the two things you really need in order to be a good business owner. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s funny you say that. So another one of the questions today that that, and they were very clear. They said you know, this has nothing to do with your personal life. What are you most proud of? But professionally, they said, what are you most proud of? And, you know, I talked about our firm and you know, the culture and all that stuff. But then it it also hit me too. I’m like, you know, I have never worked for somebody. I I’ve never had a quote quote job. I I started right out of college and, you know, I get this diploma and I go work a hundred percent commission, you know, and thank god. My Fiance, now wife at the time, and wife now, but fiance at the time, you know, believed in me supported me. My parents didn’t they weren’t like We did what? We paid for your college, and now you’re gonna go work a hundred percent commission. You full. Right? Like, that wasn’t there, but I’ve never I’ve never got a paycheck. I’ve had earn every dollar that I’ve made, and and I’m proud of that. But I think it does take that unique person because I’ve also had people that now in our forties are like, you know, I wish I would have done something like that when I was in my twenties. But, you know, now they’re like, I got a house. I got two or three kids. It’s hard to go do that. Right? But I think sooner or later, they’ve gotta take that step and and be willing to fail. And I think once that passion and that desire, when we started visionary wealth advisors, when I left my previous firm, we had three kids. My wife was pregnant with our fourth. We had just built a home. But I wanted it. Right? I was hungry and I wanted to go out and build this thing and and and we were able to do it and we pulled it off. But I think sometimes you just gotta believe and you just gotta go take action. Thoughts on that? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Absolutely. I mean, that goes back again to, that that’s why I said if you’re good at but you probably knew one thing that you’re good at building building a story, building a thing, you know, building a vision. That’s probably why, you know, you’re probably successful at it. Same with me. I knew I was I I broke every stereotype, getting the job at Citi Gilliland investment banking. Yep. You know, built one, block in me knowing building my confidence, then at Gilliland, then I knew so I knew, you know, my career was showing me I’m good at building things. Right? So I think that’s one of the things I’m really proud of is that I’ve been able to break all stereotypes you know, coming to the US as an immigrant and getting a job that only Parvaneh and Yale kids were getting, you know, that job at City Group, I had an investment banking. That was the only one that went to I went to undergrad at Stonybrook, which is like a name. No. You probably may have not ever heard of it. That was my undergrad. Every other kid was like Ivy League. So Right. That was stereotype break because I didn’t speak English until I was twelve years old. So, like, to get that Parvaneh then to, literally pull the band aid out of Pymco, and I was getting a really nice paycheck there. And even then, I I also got a few other job offers, and they were double that even, but I still gave those up to start select advisors. That’s what I’m really proud of is like what I’ve built. And I I I think it’s really important to also be proud of something you’ve built a hundred percent on your own. You know, one funded me. It’s a hundred percent self funded. I did go to some investors at the beginning, and they were like, yeah, this isn’t gonna work. And, you know, now it’s too late because I feel like I’ve built it and it’s pretty expensive. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Now they wanna invest in it. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Exactly. So you know, all of that just builds my confidence and I know what I’ve been doing has been right along the way. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what would I find if I were to follow you around and, follow you with a camera so this would be not to be creepy. Right? But I follow you around to see your habits. Right? And so what would I see kind of the no mis items in Amy’s life day in and day out? No mis items. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: No missed items. Yeah. So like I said, I’m really adamant about my running. Yep. So that’s like my That’s my sanity. One of my sanity is I run even when there’s like a fire here in California. Like nothing stops me from that. That’s my sanctuary. A lot of time thinking about work and doing work, and then it’s kids. You know, I’m a single mom, so I handle my own kids, on my own. So, you know, it’s work, run, and then the kids. And then, you know, my time alone. I really am into, like, music. So I’m all about, like, going to concerts and music fast of all. Very cool. And it’s like my, like, work hard play hard, you know, approach. Because I feel like that’s, like, the only thing that, like, really reignites my energy. I also see a lot of creativity in those places. I see a lot of cool, like graffiti art and, like, the the type of sponsorships of, like, brands with music, and, like, I like to bring some elements of that into the financial world. You’re, like, how do you co brand with a large name or things like that? So that inspires me too. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, I get bucket list items. You’re a bucket list person? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: I am. I am. Yeah. Although I feel like I actually wanted to write somewhere that I feel like I’ve pretty much lived most of my bucket list items because I feel like I’ve you know, building select advisors is like one of the biggest things. You know, bucket list is supposed to be something that’s like, kind of almost like impossible to get to. Gilliland I think I have. But I do have one bucket list, which is to stay at the Mandarin and Gilliland Lake like, calm off. That’s, like, it’s, like, sitting there. Ready to go. Yeah. That Speaker Brett Gilliland: one, please. Somebody called it an effort list. Just like, effort. I’m gonna do that. Right? It’s not a bucket list to your point because I was like, I’m just gonna do it. Right? And so I’ve thought about that. I’m like, I like that. I like that way of saying because you’re right. Buck list seems like, This is a pipe dream. This will never happen. But I think if we, you know, have clarity around where we wanna go and and create time in our calendars, we can make those things happen. So just say the effort list. So you have your outside CMO. You’d help with branding. We talked about that referral litics. Tell us a little bit about that, brag about your company Select Advisors Institute. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. So as we said, we basically are one stop shop for Financial firms and teams to do all their marketing. You know, the only three things we don’t do is advertising. I’m not a big fan of paid marketing, you know, Google ads, things like that. I’ve never spent on advertising, and I don’t want clients to feel like they need to. Unless you’re willing to compete with the firms, like, Fisher investments that have a three hundred thousand dollar a week budget. Right? You don’t need to do that. You could do organic marketing. So I’m all about, you know, so we don’t do, advertising. We don’t do any printing, and then we also don’t do any, like, we don’t we’re not event planners, but everything else we’re doing, within select advisors from all the way from, like, I’ve renamed at least a dozen firms. Oh, wow. And then I’ve basically rebranded and built out an entire marketing material Gilliland collateral for about a thousand RIA firms and teams. So helping them with branding, coming up with unique ways of saying who they are. And then from the day to day, you know, posting on social media, writing your blogs, website, maintenance, website coding, all of that. I like it. And every four weeks, like, Yeah. Referraltics is just like an ancillary part of what we do. It’s for firms who have a really nice rolodex of clients, but it really hasn’t come about, who those people know. We actually research and do the analytics on those people. So that that way, instead of the small talk that you have during your quarterly reviews, you could actually say, hey, I noticed you’re on this board, and I noticed someone else went to Stony Brook. Would you mind referring me to that person? So you’re making it easier. I’m basically saying I already know your person. Can you just, like I Speaker Brett Gilliland: know you know him. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Exactly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. That’s the step ahead of the step. Right? Last couple of questions here for you, Amy. So, how about you know, in our business and again, whether I think a lot of businesses you’re in sales. Right? I mean, even doctors you gotta sell while your practice is better than next. Right? And so How do you what advice do you have for people that don’t enjoy networking? And they don’t enjoy, you know, going to the cocktail party and shaking hands. Like for me, I know I I just I don’t enjoy that Gilliland so, but what advice do you have for people like me or like others that may not enjoy it, but we know we still gotta go do it sometimes. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: We’re both doing it right now because I don’t enjoy not working either. I don’t enjoy Galas, at all. Like, that’s not how I built any of the purposes, and you don’t saying. So, yeah. So believe it or not, majority of successful business owners are introvert or or, you know, or I guess, social introverts. Right? We we don’t get energy from going to those. In fact, those don’t work, typically. Like, going to gala, like spending the whole night and spending all this money and meeting one person. I like to do what you’re doing, which is broad marketing, like lots of different people. Whether it’s using social media. I do a lot of email blasts, you know, to to, you know, get get email lists, get by email distribution lists, whether, you know, or or have someone like our firm research those names for you, get by CEO list, by RIA list and start, you know, dripping on them. And, and that’s, for me, the most efficient way. I also have a lot of people on my social media team were adding, you know, helping me organize my social media, list. You could you know, you you really if you don’t enjoy the broad, you know, or the networking, that’s it’s actually a good thing. You should but you should start embracing these other ways. More digital basically digital should be your friend. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And are you finding that that’s the way a lot of people are getting business these days? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Website leads coming through. People, like, you look at some of the firms out there with millions of followers. They are writing blogs, writing books, you know, they’re not out there networking. They’re just people come to them at a certain point. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah. I would say it’s like the it’s like the train, the the the the magnets either connect or they don’t connect. Right? They repel each other. And I think if, you know, you have good values, you get good Gilliland you’re doing good work, the the referrals come in. I, you know, I know when I was in my twenties, it was begging people for referrals. I’m like, oh, gives me anxiety even thinking about that. But, yeah, I just I just think that’s, that’s good. It’s good to hear and can firm that it’s it’s not around, you know, networking events and and it’s not the way to build it because I I hundred percent agree. So, kinda last question for you. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: I was just gonna have one more thing. Yeah. So it’s it’s not either networking or nothing. Right? And I feel like that one of the best quotes I heard recently was doing a good job is not a marketing strategy. Like, that’s not, you know, you can’t just rely on that. So you have to have something that’s actively being done. And it’s you don’t need to go network to balance, but at least do something which is more digital. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. I agree. So how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind over your career? It’s one of my favorite questions to ask. So how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind over your career have actually blown up to the magnitude you put them in your mind to be? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Zero. You’re right. I mean, yeah, the bag I I still have the bag lady syndrome worry, you know, that you’re gonna, like, end up being homeless. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: And, you know, it’s been a good thing, right, the big fear that’s is that anxiety But, but, I mean, when you hear the stats of, like, well, I can’t you probably know this better than I do that, like, sixty percent of the US is living paycheck to paycheck. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Crazy. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Or they don’t have more than, like, a hundred thousand dollars in retirement. You and I could start being like, we’re like, what’s wrong? Like, why are we thinking this way? You know? What what are they thinking that I’m not thinking? So I think we’re a little bit too worried about things, the worst case scenario. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. I agree. So I said last question might lie. This is last question. You can see here this sticker if you’re watching, future greater than your past. So our our firm’s, mission is to help people achieve a future greater than their past. Again, doesn’t mean people have a bad past, but I think everybody wants a better future. So when you hear that, kinda what’s that what’s that feeling it gives you to help you achieve a future greater than past? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. I mean, I feel like I’m, right now, select advisors at one of the best places they possibly be. We have an amazing team in house outsource that I’ve also sourced and found. Yeah. Love the best talent I could think of. And, we basically have our recipe down, how we write what we think. So it’s that’s what I’m excited about. It’s like, you know, now it’s no longer like each time we’re like, oh my gosh, what where do we start here? It’s every single time we come to a client with even more and more resources and and capabilities and tools. And that’s what makes me really excited. It’s like it it’s like almost like going to a college that’s gonna basically be paying for itself down the line for for any client that joins us. So that’s what I’m really excited about. It’s like knowing that that’s something that they’re, you know, that I’m able to give to my clients. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. I love it. Well, Amy, working on listeners find more of you. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Oh, on our website, select dash advisers dot com, plural, or go to amy’s linkedin dot com. And that’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: Amy’s linkedin dot com. Yeah. It’s that’s the It’s a nice and easy one right there. You got lucky on that one, Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Right. You should get that. Go to, go to GoDaddy and see if Brett’s linkedin dot com as it will. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, nice. I like it. I’ll have to check there. So there’s we could have had this whole podcast. Just be that. You say that. We cut it and we’re done. Just gotta go daddy and Speaker Amy Parvaneh: find it. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like it. I love it. Awesome. We will put all this in the show notes and send people your way, Amy. It’s been awesome having you and, appreciate your time on this of success.    

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, Brett Gilliland interviews Adam Thatcher, co-founder and CEO of Grace Farms Foods. Adam shares his story of growing up with a World War II veteran father and how it has shaped his values and work ethic. He also discusses his business model of giving away 100% of profits and the Philanthropic Enterprise Act. Adam also shares his own personal approach to time management and the importance of having a purpose in life. Lastly, they talk about how taking action and believing in yourself is key to success. Full Interview   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, I’ve got Adam Thatcher with me, Adam. How you doing? Speaker Adam Thatcher: Doing awesome, Brett. Glad to be here. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome having you, man. The background looks cool there. It looks like you’re probably at Grace Farms out there in Connecticut. Is that right? Speaker Adam Thatcher: That’s right. That’s right. Grace Farms is just this amazing cultural and humanitarian center that I’ve got the pleasure of being able to be a part of and getting to create something really new there. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we’re gonna dive into it, man, because it’s a cool kind of a new business model and something I think people just need to be aware of and, came across each other through social media somehow and, And now all of a sudden, here we are, on the circuit of success podcast. It’s a small world. I interviewed, interviewed somebody today and didn’t even know it until my research. But, you know, she knew this person, and I knew, you know, it’s just it’s a small world. It’s it’s crazy, isn’t it? Speaker Adam Thatcher: It is. It’s amazing how one or two degrees of separation is it’s it’s They say those big degrees, but it’s usually a lot less. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Exactly. I don’t disagree with that. So, well, you are the co founder and CEO of Grace Farms, Foods, And, but it’s a it’s an unbelievable one hundred percent of the profits goes to, your guys’ foundation and charities. And, it’s just a it’s a great business model. But before we dive in all that stuff, Adam, if you can, I’ll always like to start with what’s made you the man you are today, which I know is a big loaded question, but you don’t just wake up and do the things that doing. So I’m curious on what the backstory is. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Yeah. Right on. Well, I think that what made me who I am today is certainly my experience is growing up, having a really unique sort of family set up. My, my father was a World War II veteran right somebody who was born in nineteen eighty four, that’s not you do not talk about something pretty uncommon. And that truly was the greatest generation, you know, not only to have the bravery at twenty, twenty two to go off to war, and be in the submarine service in the Pacific, but then to come home and really build our country to what it is today and to be able to, like, grow up with that type of work ethic being surrounded by that, I think, is really a driver for my own passion to create things make a difference, and leave some kind of legacy that, you know, I think my kids would be proud of. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what did you learn from that? Do you think? Biggest takeaways for that, if if did you have older siblings as well? Or are you, Speaker Adam Thatcher: So I’m Speaker Brett Gilliland: the youngest six. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Yeah. Okay. And, you know, I think from that is having the biggest takeaway I would say is that every day is an opportunity to make a difference. And there’s no sense in spoiling it. Right? There’s enough hours in the day to contribute in a positive way to your community, to yourself, but then also to create that moment of leisure for yourself too, whether it’s, you know, putting your kids to bed, it’s you know, sharing a drink with a neighbor who might be going through a hard time, whatever it might be. There’s definitely enough hours in the day to make every day count. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love that. Let’s let’s stay on that while we can. Because I’m a big believer in that. And so we all can be busy. We’ve all got the same twenty four hours in the day. So I I look at as itself management time management. Can’t manage time. And, so talk about that. What’s your schedule look like? I mean, you’re a busy, you know, co founder, CEO. I’m the, at the same thing. Co founder and CEO of our firm, things are busy. Right? You get kiddos. I got kiddos. We can give a million excuses of why we can’t find time for leisure in putting our kids to bed, but it’s important to you. It’s a value of yours, I would assume. So how do you do that? Let’s kinda dive into the weeds if you will and help our other fellow business owners that listen to this. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Right on. Yeah. Well, I I have three kids under the age of six. Just sent my, my five and a half year old daughter to kindergarten today first time. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, boy. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Which was an amazing, you know, milestone for us as Speaker Brett Gilliland: a Tears. No tears. Speaker Adam Thatcher: No tears. Luckily, because I got to drop her off instead of getting putting on Speaker Brett Gilliland: a bus today. So that Speaker Adam Thatcher: was our good attitude. And, you know, What what does a day look like? Right? So I I tend to wake up early, right, probably anywhere between five and 05:30, spend the morning to myself. I like to do a lot of stretching. I like to drink a lot of water and tea in the morning to really get my my body prepared for everything else that’s coming. And then, taking care of my kids in the morning is the best thing. Right? Getting them up, making breakfast for them, talking to them about how great their day is gonna be, so I can find them for a successful day, and, and, and the ways that they define success, which is mostly fun and learning. And then, and then as soon as I drop them off, I’m able to just switch my mindset into, okay, what’s on what’s on the docket today? If not having that already prepared the night before, if I need to get it prepared the night before. And I use that drive after dropping the kids off to say, okay. How am I gonna make the next eight hours, the most productive eight hours they can possibly be before, you know, I transition back into family. And then after I put the kids to bed, I’d like to take an hour or, well, first, I always we always dedicate fifth we tried to dedicate fifteen minutes, between my wife and I, right? Like, how was your day? Like, tell me how you’re doing, hopefully being at giving ourselves a chance to even do, a little bit of bible study if given the opportunity as well, some self improvement and, and, you know, couple improvement together, investing that time is really important, and then taking another hour to sort of that max. For a little bit more work prepping for the day before the following day before I go to bed. And believe it or not, still get about, you know, seven hours of sleep a night, which is all that I need. I know some people need more, but, that’s what Saturday, Sundays for is pick Speaker Brett Gilliland: up that extra hour. That’s right. Decrease that sleep debt. Awesome. Just taking them some notes there. Love that. So do you exercise? Are you a big exercise guy? I know you said stretch and all that stuff. You a big fitness guy? Speaker Adam Thatcher: You know, funny enough. I’m not. I’m a big skier. I spent eight years living in Lake Tahoe, California. I worked for two amazing ski resorts out there on the North Shore. And so that was my daily exercise routine. And I am not a big exercise person, but I find that my own daily routines of a healthy diet and stretching ends up being enough for me. I’m a passionate and avid gardener. So on the weekends are usually spent with a shovel in my hand, putting, you know, moving plants around and that sort of thing. I end up busting enough of a sweat that I haven’t, you know, Haven’t haven’t put on too much of a of a dad thought. I doubt it yet. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. That, Edgewood Resort out there in Tahoe. You been there? Speaker Adam Thatcher: So I’ve been to, a number of them for sure. I had the pleasure of working at, what was Squa Valley and Alpine Meadows, which is now Palisades Tahoe. Home to some of the the best big mountain skiing out west. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. The Edgewood golf course there is amazing. I’m a big golfer, so loved it out there. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s beautiful. So, so again, continuing on this routine thing. What what would I find if I followed you around day in and day out? Again, imagine the person listening this now is exercising and driving down the road, and and they’re busy. They’re in their schedules. What what do I see from you from either time management? Again, you said you can’t manage that. So self management but buffer in your calendar? Are you a back to back back meeting guy? Like, what’s that look like for you? Speaker Adam Thatcher: Yeah. It’s a great question. I would say that while undiagnosed, I will, I will diagnose my, myself as having a slight ADD. I like to multitask on many different things so that I’m never waiting for a response, and when that magic moment pops in your head, I like to be able to hit it right away and then come back to what I was doing because I think that different work areas inform how you’re gonna be the most successful in, a certain topic. So I, at any time, I’ve got probably about ten to twelve tabs open on, right, on on Google Chrome. And I like to jump between them, so that I’m constantly making progress together. And what it ultimately turns into is, those I consider that my version of being focused. When other people watch me, they can’t stand it. But it ends up creating sort of this, where all the boats are rising at the same tide. And, right, a billiards player of sorts, right, It’s, it’s the Catumbola where all three balls fall at the same time, right? And so, and I find that that’s a way to reach sort of like compounding results. Is when you’re succeeding at multiple things throughout the day, even if it’s a small success. And I like to try to write down my successes, right? This is not too big of, of a mind blowing thing, but having the list and, and checking it off. And that can be done the night before, the morning of, and that order isn’t linear, right, in order the way I think it it shouldn’t be. Right? Sometimes it’s all over the place, but you’re just drawing circles, connecting this dot to this dot, crossing it off, and then always dedicating, I try to dedicate thirty minutes a day to just outreach, right? And so relationships that I already have, right, shouldn’t be surprised if you get an email two months from now. It just says, hey, I really loved our conversation. Like, hope you’re doing Gilliland if you’re ever in the area would love to connect. Right? As simple as that. And keeping in the forefront of people’s minds, then and that’s the sense of community. Right? Because I’m not in this by myself. There will be times when I need to lean in and get help. And a cold reach out is much more difficult, and it appears certainly that you’re only interested in serving yourself when the whole that’s contrary to the whole concept of what we’re doing at Grace Barnes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. You know, it’s funny you said that, like, you’ll reach out and and, you know, come by. And I think it’s so important one of the things. So I’m forty five years old. I’ve been doing this for twenty two years now in the wealth management space. And and when I was forty, so five years ago, I wrote down forty things I learned in my first forty years, but really it’s about my business, right, in the business world. And I, one of the things I said was take the meeting. I have so many people in in any business. Right? Like, oh, well, I’m not gonna do that because they just want me to come there, and I’m, you know, my time is valuable, and I’m gonna get paid. Little blah blah and all this stuff. And I and I have found over the years that I have done a lot of free meetings. Right? And but those meetings and I don’t do them any other reason, just I don’t know. I don’t probably be able to help you. You’re gonna be able to help me be a good person. Let’s go have fun and and have a great meeting. And I think that you’re what I’m hearing and one of my research has shown is that you would agree with that concept as well. Take the meeting. I don’t know what the hell’s gonna happen, man, but some amazing things happen when you get good people together. Agree. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Totally. And also being transparent, right? Let’s not beat around the bush. If we’ve only got forty five minutes for a cup of coffee or catching up, you know, share what your interests are, what you’re focused on also. And then next thing you know, they’re like, hey, I happen to know the the inability officer at this and they would love to hear from. And that’s where the network grows. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. The circle just keeps getting bigger, didn’t it? So, let let’s talk about this. So so people understand exactly what you’re doing. You guys give away a hundred percent of your profits. And so I’m gonna have you explain this because you’ll do a hell of a lot better job than I will. But talk about this business model, and this is where I came across it in Forbes Magazine as a write up about y’all. And so let’s let’s talk about that. What does that mean? We’re giving away a hundred percent of our profits. And why is it a new business model that people should be thinking about? Speaker Adam Thatcher: Right on. Right on. Well, so the way that you guarantee you’re giving back one hundred percent of profits is that you’re one hundred percent non profit owned. And the way that this model works, which is a whole new type of business model that’s been allowed now for only about four years, is you need to have a great organization like a nonprofit foundation, such as what we have is Grace Farms Foundation, which is the owner and manager of this amazing place called Grace Farms. So well worth a Google, even better, go to Google images and take a look at what the space is. But it is this world class cultural and humanitarian center designed by these incredible architects based out of Japan. It’s a beautiful piece of modern architecture that is a community center to the local and global community. It’s open and free to the public six days a week, and not only do we want to want to create a space that everyone feels welcome, but that they also feel empowered to make a difference in the world, make the world a better Gilliland we found that our unique space to be able to do that is, through our our justice work. The humanitarian work, which is focused around ending forced labor. So it’s become more and more, known problem in the world in the last several years, but in basics, like, terms, there are twenty eight million people that are still trapped in forced labor today, right, which is part of modern slavery. And modern slavery is both human trafficking, which is on the sex trafficking side of things, and the forced labor side of things. Right? So when I say forced labor, that’s a combination of people who are being, are required to work under some form of coercion. So their travel documents are being held. They’re being threatened or their family is being threatened. They’ve been, they’ve paid some type of worked visa to go work in another country, and they’re an indentured servant and can’t stop working until that that payment and the insurmountable interest has been paid. Right? So there’s a lot of this dark industry that’s still happening. And believe it or not, there’s more people trapped in, enforced labor today than there’s ever been in the history of planet. We just don’t necessarily know it. Right? And as globalization has continued, it’s only become more and more rampant and United States is the largest, importer of goods made with forest labor. So at this very beautiful, hopeful space, sort of like this juxtaposition of this hopeful space dealing with a very dark humanitarian crisis that we have on our hands. And that’s really in intended so that we could tackle this dark issue in this space that is transparent. Right? The building is all made out of Gilliland so it’s both literal and metaphorical in the way that’s intended to inform the work that we do. But being a cultural space, we host amazing art performances. We host, Nobel laureates who come in people can learn, from these types of amazing leaders around the world all coming and convening at Grace Farms Farms. And then the work we do is from a, an effort called design for freedom, which has a unique focus on ending forced labor in the building materials supply chain. Right? So when you think about the built environment, right? This is the chairs we’re sitting on. This is the windows that we look out of. This is the timber used to make the roof over our heads, the concrete of the floors that we work on. And there’s been this labor transparency pass on this whole industry, which is the largest industry in the world, is is the building and construction industry So this was something that came upon us a couple years into the work that we were doing that nobody’s doing this. Grace Farms happens to sit at this unique nexus of humanitarian work, but also this unique architectural site where we’re bringing people together and it really started to take off when we started doing work with the United Nations University, and a number of other organizations in starting this movement called Design for Freedom, which is now this leading movement. So this was all happening. This was getting underway. And then what happens in twenty twenty? That upends everybody, the pandemic. Right? And I, I had the honor of serving as the director of operations and sustainability for Grace Farms’s Foundation for the first five and a half years. And when the pandemic began, we couldn’t be serving the public in the way that we had been, because people couldn’t come on-site. So we did a bunch of different adjustments on how we are serving community. We became the largest importer of PPE in the state of Connecticut because of unique relationships we had, to be able to import the the the needed safety, equipment for our front line heroes. But we’re also saying like, how do we stay connected with our community? And I was getting my MBA at, NYU at New York University, at the stern School of Business, and was really interested in innovative business models, especially businesses that were focused on giving back ESG focus businesses, B corps, and I stumbled upon this really small change in the iris code in twenty nineteen. Something called the philanthropic Enterprise Act, also known as IRS code four nine four three g, also known as the newman’s own exception. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So Speaker Adam Thatcher: for many people that may be listening to this, you’ve probably had the salad dressing, the salsa, whatever it may be. And so, it’s a result of their company that they’re actually able to get the IRS code changed that now allows private foundations, nonprofit foundations, to own one hundred percent of for profit companies. So that was like the basis of where it Gilliland I’m glad to go into some more detail. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Absolutely. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Great. So discovering this small change in the IRS code, we said, alright. Well, the way that this worked for Neumann zone was they created this successful business, Paul Neumann created it. And then when he died, they transferred one hundred percent of the equity, the newman’s own foundation, but in a beautiful model, The more, more addressing that they sell, the more money they could get back to supporting kids in particular, the work that they did. But the the product itself was not furthering the charitable purposes of the nonprofit. And so we said, well, what if we have a chance to create a business. And not only would we be able to give back one hundred percent of the profits because we’re legally owned by the non profit. So we only have one shareholder, one dividend to pay out, is what if we use this company to also demonstrate and educate about ethical and sustainable supply chains, the work that we do around design for freedom, as I said, But it also becomes a way for us to share this amazing brand, this amazing story of Grace Farms, the beauty of Grace Farms, the space itself through the packaging and the storytelling. So it was with those three goals that we started the company. And then donated it into the foundation. And then we began our mission of creating in our, you know, world. The most impactful business we possibly can create. And so we do that in a number of different ways. We’re a certified B corp, which for those people that are familiar with it or not familiar with it. It’s a rigorous, assessment that businesses can go through from a third party organization called the BLab that, measures your impact as a company on, from a governance side, from a worker’s side, an environmental side, all those factors, pull into that. So, we built the company to be a certified B corp. We are the first and only T brand in the US to partner with, fair trade international, which is the original and really the the gold standard of fair trade organizations here, in the world. And then, and then we also source all of our coffees exclusively from women like co ops as a way to, like, bring some light to the fact that forty two percent of the workers in the agricultural field are women, yet they’re disproportionately underpaid. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Got it. That’s a lot, man. Whoo. Just it’s that easy. Well, I mean, with that though, man, you gotta have passionate leaders. You gotta have people I mean, there’s gotta be some cash on the sidelines. Right? I mean, like, the normal person can’t just do this, I wouldn’t think. But but a couple of things come to mind. So number one, When you talk about design for freedom, I don’t know if this is the the path you’re going down here, but so, I I was just in Oregon on a golf trip. And but when we’re going home with the drive about two and a half hours, from abandoned dunes to Eugene, Oregon, you know, and, I see all these mount or hills, whatever you wanna call them out there at this at this area. And then, you know, the beautiful, pine trees and, you know, one one hillside would be they’d just be gone. Right? They would be logging them and they’d be these big truck bed. And then as we got more into town, We’d see plant after plant after plant with, I don’t know, thousands of trees laying there, perfectly straight cedar trees, right, laying there. And then you’d go down the road. And then at the end, I would see another, factory and it would have, like, what I would just go to, like, one of the home improvement stores and see a bunch of two by Right? Now they’re out in the in the parking lot and there they are. Right? And so it gets me thinking because then I’d see more hills where that one’s empty. That one looks like they’re a hundred foot tall. These look like they’re ten foot tall. It just gets my mind thinking. Okay. Like now what’s the future? Like what’s that look like thirty years from now. Can we continue to do this at the scale we do it to where the real estate market with houses and buildings are being built can we sustain this? Like that that worries me as a country. And so is that in line with what you’re talking about here from the design for freedom, or is that something completely different? Speaker Adam Thatcher: No. It’s it’s completely in line, right? And so for us, we look at it as the definition of sustainability is not isolated just to environmental. Right? That is a incredibly important topic, right? That If we do not take care of this planet, human caused climate change is going to create con continue to create havoc on our planet and ultimately make our planet really not livable for the eight billion people and more that, are live on our planet. However, we also believe that sustainability requires the lens from an ethical stand point. Are we willing to take us define something as a sustainable future at the cost of other people’s freedom? And so Yeah. We are fortunate enough that our country, has strict labor laws that are for the most part managed. I’m not saying we’re perfect. We have a lot of migrant labor in our country, a lot in the agricultural side of things, especially but other places around the world that are fast developing countries that aspire to have the resources and the economy of the United States are willing to step over people’s freedoms and liberties in order to spark their economy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. And so that but that tree thing back to that, I mean, that then you see that being a a real factor of what I saw Gilliland I’m not looking at it from a political standpoint. I’m not looking at it from global warming, any of that kind of stuff. I’m looking at it more from a, can we do this? Can we continue to provide the lumber that we will need to continue to build the buildings that we’re gonna have to continue to build or they’re they because they’ll tear down homes. They tear down buildings and start all over. Right? Speaker Adam Thatcher: Completely. And, the answer is no. We cannot stay at the pace that we’re already going at. And, you know, there’s further certifications out there FSC, which is, for stewardship Council, which is managing responsibly, timbered Forest. But in the end, the majority of the wood that we’re consuming is not. And so, and and the three r’s reduce or use recycle are relevant in any industry, right, even building. Right? And so we we do need to take that that lens in all of our consumption areas. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Makes sense. And, you know, I’m I’m on a, a board now that, I’m not for profit. And we do the coffee thing and source it out of Haiti and And you know, that that is in businesses and people buy it in bulk and and that money then goes and goes to the the people of Haiti in North Lewis, and it’s making a huge impact. So, I mean, I’ve seen it firsthand, and I didn’t even hear about this stuff, you know. So that’s probably why the three or four years ago, I think is when you said it started, that’s about when we started doing the coffee. And it’s an amazing thing for people to be able to give back through business, which we’re all part of somehow, some one way or the other. So let’s talk about more of the habits, rituals, thinking how important is that for you, just spending time thinking about the next thing for you. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Yeah. It’s a great question. You know, I find that giving yourself an appropriate amount of time to reflect on the weight of the decision Gilliland how long you should dedicate to it is really important. I would say that it’s something that I’ve wrestled with myself. We did not come out of the gates and had a clear idea on how to penetrate into a hyper competitive market. Right? I agonized over like, why is this not working right out of the beginning? Was up for more nights than I can ever imagine, like, you know, I want to live through again. I I can easily say, right? And most entrepreneurs would probably say this, right, that starting a business the first time is one of the most challenging things you’ll do in your life, from a certainly from a professional standpoint, if not, you know, from a, a complete life standpoint, with the exception of, you know, family issues that you might go through. And so, for me, the the ritual of of reflecting and making sure that you’re giving yourself enough Slack and giving yourself gratitude for all the things you’ve been given, the opportunities is the best way for me to clear my head. When I find myself, you know, laying in bed wrestling with a big decision or not, it’s always helpful for me to just like count through all the things I’m I’m so grateful for, from a family side of things, from a business side of things, all the things that are going great. And then if in your gut that thing that you’re it the difficult decision you’re making, there’s nowhere, like, around it that something you could be grateful for. It’s probably something you should move away from is something that I’ve found, right? And and that’s like your gut and your heart talking to you. But, you know, it’s it’s it’s popped into your mind in a different way. You’re not acting emotionally. That’s the way that I’ve developed my, my my compass of decision making. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. And wouldn’t you agree? Obviously, you have a very clear purpose, but I think in life, you have to have a purpose. And and you can see the sticker future greater than your past is our firm’s mission is to help people achieve a future greater than their past. And it doesn’t mean that that you know, you’ve had a bad past. It doesn’t mean the person listening to this had a bad past. But I think if I, you know, if I was in a room full of a thousand people, I said, raise your hand if you want a future grade in your past, Everybody’s gonna raise their hands. Right? And and so when you hear that, purpose, future grade in your past, Getting you up in the morning at five or 05:30 and keeping you going, would you believe that’s one of the biggest indicators of success for your life is to have a purpose? Speaker Adam Thatcher: Couldn’t agree more. I mean, you’re a rudderless ship. And as we know, it just continues to spin round and round. And you know, I think we’ve all felt that at certain times. Like, you’ve got a guiding purpose in your life, but maybe you’ve, like, gotten distracted acted from what that is, or enough of the challenges have, like, got have have rocked your confidence enough to be able to tap into that. Purpose and let that be your guiding light every morning, but no question. Without a purpose, what’s the what’s the point? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, the Bible says right without a vision, without a purpose, people perish. And so, I think that’s important for us as business leaders as well. And I think there’s a lot of people that may not have that purpose. Currently in their life. And I think it’s people’s jobs to either one through a podcast, books, mentoring, making a phone calls to get somebody to help you with that because I think that’s so important for me. I know it was I was always driven by different things, but when I found that purpose for me purposely, it was a, it was a life changer, man, and it’s something that then guides you every day that allows you to get up. Even on the days you don’t wanna do it, when there’s purpose driven mission there, you’re gonna do it. Whether it’s cold and rainy or not, you’re gonna get up and make it happen. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Couldn’t agree more. You know, and I think I I’ve looked at it as there’s there’s three three important factors that are happening in your life. Right? It’s the the work that you’re doing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Adam Thatcher: The relationships that you have, and where you’re spending your time. Right? Like, geographically, like, what is the environment that you’re in? And if you can optimize those three factors, then you have the ability to like say climb Maslow’s hierarchy of need or reach that flow state. And so if you find yourself, right, you’re surrounded by great Gilliland you’re doing meaningful work, but you’re, you know, in an environment that is not friendly. Right? It’s not inspiring from a place, you cannot possibly give your best. And so that might be as simple as, hey, let’s just take this meeting outside so that we can think a little bit more clearly as a team. And and so those are the types of changes, the small changes that we can make every single day. If you find yourself trapped in a place where like you are surrounded by people you do not like, you need to get out of that situation or find a way to change that situation. If you Gilliland yourself in an environment you do not like, like, right? You do not like the city you live in. Get out, right? It is dragging you down and pulling you back. And I know that’s a scary jump for a lot of people, but wait till you get to the other side. Yeah. It’s worth it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Another one I I think about a lot for people is the paralysis by analysis. You know, like, I think if I I I don’t know this. I’m gonna make a statement and tell me if I’m wrong or not. But when you guys are building Grace Farms Foods, you didn’t I mean, you had a plan clearly had a plan. When we were starting visioning wealth advisors, we had a plan. But sometimes, man, you gotta go. Right? You just gotta take action one of the circuits of success. You gotta take action and you gotta believe in yourself and your team that you’re gonna build it as you go. And I think so many people wanna just think it’s gonna be perfect day one and it’s a muddy mess, man, trudging through the deep valleys and peaks, of running a business. And so would you agree with that as well as I make these statements that you didn’t have this perfect road map that you’re building it as you go? Speaker Adam Thatcher: Oh my gosh. Yes. Certainly no such thing as a perfect road map. I would say, right, what what creates disappointment? Unmatched expectation. So if you live your whole life by saying, like, everything’s gonna be the best. Everything’s gonna be pretty. I’m gonna reach this level of success in my life. Then chances are that, like, yeah, you’re gonna spend a lot of time being disappointed, unfortunately. That’s not to say you shouldn’t be striving for those things. But if you you take those as something that should be granted, man, like, you’re setting yourself up for a really frustrating life. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s a rider downer. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. The, unmet. I write that down. What creates disappointment and unmet expectations? So tell us a little bit more about what Grace Farms actually does. I know you guys coffee and the tea is probably what you’re drinking there and your nice glass is your tea. So tell us about that. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Yeah. Right on. So when we opened the Grace Farms back in two thousand fifteen, We knew it was at this new kind of place. And we said, alright. How are people gonna respond to this unique architecture and this idea that this space is truly free and open to the public. It’s meant to just make the world a better place. And, you know, in today’s world of skepticism that we have that could there truly be genuine authentic intentions behind a place like this, right? And there was skepticism early on from what we were doing there. But we found that coffee and tea was just this common denominator that everyone could enjoy. I mean, right, tea. There’s six billion cups of tea enjoyed around the world every single day. So what makes for, like, a great relationship? Finding something in common with someone. Right? So what better way than you’re either a coffee or a drinker or you’re a tea drinker. Right? And if you don’t like caffeine, that’s cool. We’ve got delicious verbal t two, that’s caffeine free. So we’ve got a warm way to welcome you no matter where you’re coming from, who you are, let’s start a conversation. Gilliland that’s really the ice breaker. And so it became a way of more than just a welcoming greeting. It became the beginning of relationships. And so then when we were closed during the pandemic, we said, like, how could we not only you know, stay connected with our existing community, but how could we grow that community even more? Right? This is the silver linings of a challenging situation like a pandemic. And so we, you know, literally took the inspiration from the cups in our hands and said, what if we were to take this amazing tea and coffee experience that happens at Grace Barnes, and we were to share it with everyone. And so we’ve now got people right from Iowa and Washington State all over the country that have never heard of Grace Barnes, have never been to Grace Barnes. I don’t even know if they’ll ever make it to Grace Barnes, but they’re now connected to it. Right? And it’s It’s the small, like, SIPs, right, of tea is a way for people to be connected to a greater mission, and also for them to find these micro moments of purpose, right, to what we were saying earlier. Right? If you don’t have necessarily that purpose in yourself right now or you’re struggling to say like, boy, these big problems with the world are so big, but I’ve I’ve lost my own purpose because I don’t feel like I can make a difference. Our theory was like, well, what if we could empower people just by making a slight change from the coffee and tea that they’re drinking? And so that they are part of a community, right, that are making a difference and that their decision voting with their wallet, right, conscious consumerism, whatever you wanna call it is all activated and real. So that’s that’s how, like, the coffee and tea has become sort of our signature thing. And then where we’ve gone with it has been really amazing. On the on on a business to business side of things, which is a really exciting channel for us. We’ve found that organizations incredible companies have resonated so much with this message where they’re looking for ways to share their ESG commitments and maybe they don’t have an ESG purpose, right? And so we can help them shape that just by simply changing their coffee and tea. So, for example, Our, our tees are now in JPMorgan, right? How does a small business, like partner with the largest private bank in the world? Because we’re so aligned with our purpose. Right? We know our product is is super top notch. It’s the highest quality. And when we show up, we’re willing to do what it takes to show them that we care so much about the partnership. And that makes a big difference. Right? We’re in with the World Economic Forum, United Nations University, And so it becomes a really easy decision for them, once they meet us, and they they know what we’re about. And so that’s, like, this is where things get super, super fun. Because now we’re sharing our product with thousands of people in a corporate cafeteria that otherwise never would have found grace farms. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I think again, those big companies, though, they wanna be with people that have a passion and a purpose as well. Right? Like, That’s an easy fix for them. You’re gonna buy coffee or tea for your break room. Right? Why not buy something with a passion and a purpose behind it? Speaker Adam Thatcher: Totally. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, working our listeners find more of Adam Thatcher and, Grace Farms Foods, man. This has been awesome. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Awesome. Well, a, thank you for having me. Where you can find more of me is come to Grace Farms. I’m there all the time. Would love to grab a cup of tea or coffee with you, let’s sit down, have a conversation, willing to take the time, and let’s see what doors we can open for each other. Otherwise, feel free to email me. Right? A thatcher, at gracepharmsfoods dot com. Thatcher, t h a t c h e r, just like Margaret Thatcher. And otherwise, you can find our products share gracefarms dot com, or you can go to our, the website gracefarms dot org and learn more about grace farms the space. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. We crushed it, man. Adam, this is awesome. Love to love it, and, love that what what creates disappointment is unmet expectations. Couldn’t agree anymore, my friend. So thanks for being with me, man. Enjoy the rest of the week.  

On this episode of the Circuit of Success Podcast, host Brett Gilliland interviews NBA Skills Coach and CEO of Pure Sweat, Drew Hanlen. Drew shares his journey from a single workout with an NBA player to becoming a full-time trainer. He explains how he gets the world’s best athletes to listen to him, and emphasizes the importance of taking care of the players. He compares his role to Brett’s executive business coach and suggests people should do a self-audit and be consistent in their actions. He also talks about the differences between the best and average players in the NBA and reflects on his own past and his parents’ sacrifices. Circuit of Success | Drew Hanlen   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got Drew Hanlen with me, Drew. What’s going on, my Hanlen, Speaker Drew Hanlen: nothing. Just getting ready for workouts today. It’s it’s early, West Coast time. So appreciate you having me on early and and being flexible with your schedule. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Absolutely, man. It’s persistence, man. You’re traveling all over the country and, helping all these guys and, but I wanted to have you on the podcast because it’s, it’s fun to see what you’re doing, man. It’s really cool. So, before we get really dive into some of the stuff, you are the CEO of pure sweat, in in an MBA, strategic skills coach and consultant, you work with all sorts of NBA players. I won’t name drop on here, but people can check out your, Instagram, and you can pretty much see who you work with. But it’s amazing to see what you’re doing. But if you can, Drew, kinda open it up with what’s made you the man you are today. I know that’s a really big, wide open question, but kinda like to see what’s made you the man you are today. Speaker Drew Hanlen: Yeah. You know, I I always tell people that, you know, you’re not only a product of all the hard work that put in, but you’re also a product of, everything that built you and made you. And, you know, if I look at kind of the the things that have allowed me to, achieve whatever level of success, that I’ve been able to have right now, it really starts way back when, you know, the other day, I was driving two workouts Gilliland, I saw a little lemonade stand. And, you know, my girlfriend was in the passenger side, and I I whipped, you know, whipped quick right turn into like a parking spot. And she was like, is everything okay? And I was like, I literally have a rule. I cannot drive past a lemonade stand. Just because, Speaker Brett Gilliland: you know, Speaker Drew Hanlen: I remember myself, you know, making sure that I had eliminated sand when I was younger, and I cut grass when I was younger, and I shoveled snow when I was younger, you know, growing up in St. Louis, you get, you know, all the seasons. So that means you get all the little, businesses as a youngster. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: When you may cut Gilliland shovel snow in like a forty eight hour period too, you know. Yeah. Speaker Drew Hanlen: I know. Right? I know. Right? So, you know, there’s so many moments like that that just snapped me back to kind of the the grind that I had when I was younger. You know, even now, I’m in the product, you know, the process of publish it my first self help book. And, it takes me back to my first ever self published book that I did when I was in high school and sold them out of my backpack and the trunk of my car. Wow. You know, and then even just, you know, the work that I put in with with my players, you know, Bradley Beal was the first ever basketball player that I ever started working with, and I started working with him when he was thirteen. I was seventeen. So I was still in high school. I didn’t know I had to be a basketball trainer at that time, but I did know how to put in a lot of hard work. I knew, you know, consistent work, you know, plus you know, the right work led to good results. And so all I did was I just put him through consistent hard work that was targeting the areas of focus that he needed to focus on and that led to him, you know, finding success as well. So I think that, you know, all the you know, the things that I’m experiencing now, you know, were really just things that I I learned that worked along the way, or me avoiding things that didn’t work along the way. And you know, it’s it’s fun to, kinda reminisce on those times and realize, where you picked up a lot of the strategies that now you deem so you know, dominance in kind of the practices that I do on a daily basis. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, what I love too is, I mean, so you played basketball at Belmont, right, in college and and Hanlen a good career there and then decided to get, I assume, right into the coaching with NBA players. Is that how that went down? Speaker Drew Hanlen: Even earlier. So, you know, Brad Beal, I started with when he was, freshman in high school, I was, junior going into senior year in high school. So that was what kind of started it all. Then I wrote a basketball drill book, self published it at Kinko’s. I went to FedEx Kinko’s. Live them. I was like, hey, I’m doing a school project. I need, you know, two hundred copies. They gave me a discount for it. That’s how I was able to negotiate down, like, the price, to five bucks a book. I went around town, and I sold all those copies sold out right away. And so then I was like, alright. Hey, school project. I made a mistake. I gotta reprint the two hundred, you know, and and I kept doing it and then eventually after like a thousand books, they were like, hey, listen. We know this isn’t for a school project, but we love that you’re also in bustling, like, what is this? And I told him, I said, you know, listen, you know, I I’m a basketball player and a lot of other players wanna know what drills and skills I use on a daily basis to improve my own game. And so what I’ve done is I’ve put together, you know, this book that, allows young players to follow the exact same drills and skills that I do but I end up selling five thousand copies that summer. So you think Wow. As, you know, as a gonna be senior in high school, you sell five thousand copies, making twenty bucks a book. You do the math real quickly. You find out, hey, this is a profession that I can actually make Speaker Brett Gilliland: some money. Speaker Drew Hanlen: And then You know, I started doing weekly academies, at ninety six kids that were paying me a monthly subscription to be a part of my, academies where they got to come in twice a week. And so early on, I was like, this is what I’m doing. And then my big break outside of, you know, training Brad who ended up becoming you know, you know, multiple time all star in NBA was David Lee, another mule is born and raised in Louis. You know, he went to the same high school that Brad did. And, he finally gave me a shot. My sophomore year in college. He was, like, in town. Wow. You know, in Saint Louis, and, my AA coach was his AA coach. And so He was like, hey, you should really give this young kid Drew a chance and he was like, well, I’m not working with a college basketball, but I already talking about, like, I’m in the in the NBA, you know. And, I remember him texting me. And I was in Nashville at the time at Belmont. And, he was like, Hey, bro. He’s like, it’s it’s daily. In town, I’d love to, put some work in with you. When can you go? And I was like, anytime when do you wanna start up? And he was like tomorrow, 8AM. And I remember, you know, finishing up a couple workouts I had in Nashville, getting in my car, driving to St. Louis, getting back at, like, midnight at night, I spent for midnight till 7AM studying film of David Lee so I could really understand the ins and outs of his game. Got to the gym at, like, 07:15 because I wanted to mop the whole floor because I was like NBA guys are not used to the floors that like Right. You know, used to working out these kids on, which are just like gyms with no AC, you know, the water fountain was, like, hanging by the last string. And, and that’s what I did, but one workout turned into me being his full time trainer for the rest of his career and and that really, expedited the process of me being a professional skills coach at the highest level. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, and that’s what I think is, again, fascinating as well when I, you know, follow you on Instagram, and I see the guys you’re working with, you know, they they all look like they’re, you know, seven foot tall. And so how do you What have you done? Obviously, the work and things you just mentioned, but for these, the world’s best athletes in the NBA to be humble enough to listen to this guy you know, that to your point, high school, Belmont, and now doing this, how how do they stay humble enough to listen to you? Speaker Drew Hanlen: Well, you know, I I heard the best quote, was actually from David Lee, who, like I said, was my first NBA client. And I remember us, we were sitting down, and we’re at Cheesecake Factory in Phoenix. And it was the night before, they were getting ready to open up the season against the sons when he was playing for the warriors. And Steph Curry, had made a comment, you know, about something. And David was like, hey, he’s like, Steph, are you gonna go to Seth, his little brother at the time was pointed at Duke, are you gonna go to his opening night game? And he was like, I don’t know why. And he was like, because Drew plays against him. And and Steph was like, Man, he’s like, Drew, I didn’t know you coached, coach college ball too. And he goes, no, no, no, he plays college. And he’s like, wait, wait, what? And he’s like, Drew plays at Belmont. Belmont opens up the season at Duke. So Drew is gonna be opening up partying seth. And Steph was like, blown away. And I remember him asking David. He’s like, alright, I gotta ask a question. Like, how did you eventually trust this college kid that, like, You know, I was playing out a mid major and, you know, averaging ten points a game and, like, what what are you doing listening to this guy? And Dave said a great quote, great quote that that best, kind of answers your question. He said Phil Jackson couldn’t be Michael Jordan, or Shaq or Kobe in one on one. But Phil Jackson could make Kobe and Michael and Jack better versions of Gilliland he said, Drew’s not a better basketball player than me, but Drew can make me a better version of myself, and that’s why I hired him. And so I think that best describes it is, you know, I I’m I’m humble enough to know that I’m a small part of these guys’ games. You know, my job is to make their work at work outs as strategic as possible. My job is to make sure that I’m spotting things on film that they can’t feel themself when they’re out there on the game. My job is to basically do all the dirty work so that all they have to do is put in the right work that they can get the right results and get the best results possible. I also know that I’m leveling them up just a little bit, but that little bit is the difference between them being a all star and then being an MVP or them being, a starter and then being an all star or them being a role player and then being a star. So, you know, I’m really I always say I’m like a GPS system. You know, like, they get in a car. They’re the one doing the driving, but at the end of the day, they’re saying, hey, This is where I’m at. This is where I wanna be. Help me get there in the most efficient and effective way possible. And then it’s also my job not only to put together that road map. But also if they get off course to get them back on and reroute them back on to the track that they need to be on so they can eventually get to where they wanna become. And sometimes we even get past where they wanna become and and get to really special things in their career that they never thought were possible. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s a great explanation, and it makes me think tying the basketball world of the business world. You know, I mean, I’ve had an executive business coach for years. Right? So it’s like, does does that mean they’re a better business guy than me, right, using air so maybe maybe not. I don’t know. But the point is is they can see things in me that I can’t see myself. You know, you look at, you can’t see it. You know, Michael Phelps back here. You know, he had a he had a coach, right? Could that guy beat him in swimming? Nope. But to your point, right? It’s it’s amazing. I like the GPS thing. So, what clearly there’s the physical side of that, but what else are you seeing from a mental side? Because the mental the mental game up here is super important as well. Speaker Drew Hanlen: Yeah. I always talk about the deep games, the deep games, the games that you play in your head and your heart that maybe you don’t even know you’re playing and you gotta win those games in order to you know, win the games that take place on the court. And, you know, I I think that most of professional athletes, don’t realize that they’re they’re not as good at compartmentalizing things as they think they are. You know, a lot of times slumps on the court actually start off the court. And a lot of times, you know, when life doesn’t feel great off the court, it’s because their own court play isn’t great. So they’re so intertwined and deeply connected that I think that if a a trainer only focuses on the player and not the person, they’re doing that player and person such as disjustice. And so, you know, from an early age, I’ve realized that, you know, not only do you have to be able to do the skills, but you have to have the confidence to be able to do the skills and games. And then you have to have kind of the, you know, the awareness to understand that everything off the court and bleed onto the court. And so you have to make sure that you’re completely Hanlen care of them as both a person and player and person comes first. You know, it’s it’s funny because you talked about you having a business coach You know, I’m a a business coach for so many businessmen that make way more money than me, you know, multiple billionaire clients And I always ask them because they always hire me. They’re like, hey, I want you to be my business coach. And the first question I always ask them is I’m like, why would you hire me as a business coach when you’re better at business than I am. And they kind of freeze. And I go, tell me what’s really going on. And that’s when normally I realized they’re really hiring me as a life coach. They just don’t wanna put that tag on it because there’s some kind of stigma behind it but it’s so true. I mean, really, the ultimate goal of professional, you know, sports, ultimate goal of business, ultimate goal of anything, is to find peace in your real world, which is your life, not, you know, the little micro world, which is the sport or business that you’re you know, competing and playing in. And so I think the mental side of it is so important. You know, I’m constantly pushing guys to levels that most people feel uncomfortable with, you know, and I always tell them, hey, the direct number of uncomfortable conversations that you have with yourself or with me, because sometimes I have to dodge them, is going to be kind of a a direct proportion of how much success you have in your career. And I think most people don’t wanna have those uncomfortable conversations. Most people don’t wanna have those, you know, kind of heart to hearts with themselves. Most people don’t wanna look in the mirror and say, you know what? He’s right or I know that I’m right deep down, but those conversations, those kind of self checks those kind of digging deep moments, those are the exact moments that propel people to special special things that, most people just aren’t able to get to because it aren’t willing to have those, you know, uncomfortable times that go with those uncomfortable conversations. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what are you finding? Just stay there for a minute. The the the billionaire, the the business guy, the, the basketball guy. What what are maybe one or two, three things that you can share with our listeners now of Hey, if you could just implement this one thing into your life, right? Maybe they don’t have the means or whatever to hire you or somebody else. So what’s one of the one or two or three three things that you could help with that? Speaker Drew Hanlen: I would say, you know, number one would be doing a self audit. And when I say a self audit, I mean, literally getting into the trenches and asking yourself, you know, what are the stupid things that I’m doing daily that are causing stress and struggles in my life? You know, and not, like, kind of like the keep Juck change ad kind of model. You know, one of the things I need to keep doing that are working, or things that I need to chuck and get rid of, be that aren’t working, what are the things I could kind of tweak and change that’ll really, you know, change the course of, you know, my daily actions. And one of the things that I’m not doing that I should start doing, but keep Chuck Change ad, that would be one thing that I would say would be something very, very good for most people to do that deep audit. Number two is I always say this. Like, think about this. Let’s say, somebody that you love. Whether it’s, you know, your your partner, whether it’s your kid, whether it’s, somebody that you love, a a really close friend, If they say, hey, we need to talk. Your heart drops. Your stomach drops. Like, everything is like, we need to talk. Like, what what’s going on? Well, I always say you should have that conversation with yourself before somebody else does. So if you have some kind of issue, if you’re you’re struggling with your weight, if you’re struggling with drinking, if you’re struggling with stress, if you’re not, spending enough time with your family, if your financial situation isn’t where you want it to be, whatever the the main cause is that’s kind of, you know, one kind of thing that’s overflow life that’s causing all the disturbance. You know, you need to have that. We need to talk conversation with yourself before somebody else has to have that conversation with you. So the second thing I would say is just figuring out what the main problem is and being able to actually address that main problem. And then the third thing that I think if I had to boil it down to three, is consistency. And I think that consistency is where a lot of people slack off. You know, I always say the consistency, trump’s intensity. And I think that both are great. If you can consistently be intense and intense in the right ways, that is awesome. But, you know, you’ve seen New Year’s resolutions all the time where, you know, January first, you’re, alright, here we go. I’m going to the gym. You’re posting about it. You’re tweeting about it. You know, January fourth, you’re like, oh, it’s a brutal, you know, day, but I got after it today. I’m proud of myself. And then January twelfth, the gym’s empty. You know, everybody’s have Speaker Brett Gilliland: goals. Right. Speaker Drew Hanlen: And so I think that there’s so many areas. Think about diets. How many times have people started a diet on Monday. And Friday comes around and the friends invite them to some fancy restaurant and there’s the bread there is just the best bread and they’re going, you know what? One piece of bread won’t kill me. And then after that one piece of bread, well, I already cheated. I might as well enjoy my meal. And then that becomes a, you know what? I’m just gonna have a great weekend and start my diet over on Monday. And it’s like, we know you’re not starting your diet over on Monday. If you do, then you know on next Thursday or Friday, you’re gonna break it again. So I would say the first thing is, you know, making sure that, you know, they do that audit, you know, kind of figure out what things they should keep doing, what things they should change that they’re doing, what things they should add, what things they should chuck, Second thing, you know, like I said, have those, hey, we need to talk conversations, those deep conversations, those uncomfortable conversations. Everybody knows the the thing that they don’t want other people to discover about them deep down. And you’ve gotta discover those things about yourself before other people do. And then the last thing is you know, consistency, trump’s intensity. You know, and I’m big on a hundred percent is easier than ninety five percent, which means, you know, for me, I’m thirty three years old. I’ve never tasted alcohol. I’ve never done drugs. I’ve never never smoked. Never done any of that. It’s easier for me when I go to a night club, somebody that doesn’t know me might say, Hey, do you want a drink? And I’ll be like, no, I’m good. My friends that do know me, they don’t even offer me a drink because they know I am not a drink. You know, and it’s not one of those things where I show up and I’m like, is tonight the night I drink. If ninety five percent of the time you don’t drink, then every single time you go out, you’re gonna get pressured. Your friends are gonna be like, hey, come on, just have one drink, like Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Drew Hanlen: Because they think, like, I’m not a drinker. They think he drinks occasionally, this could be the occasion. And then if you have one drink, it’s, hey, come on. You already have one. What’s two? You know, two is gonna get you. Yeah. And eventually, it’s a scene from, you know, the hangover where the next morning you wake up, you feel bad. You’re, you’re, like, oh my god. I’m off my, you know, I’m off my streak. But a hundred percent means I don’t do this or I do do this. You know, for me, I know every morning I’m gonna do I’m gonna jump in the cold plunge. I know I’m gonna jump in the sauna. I know that I’m not gonna drink when I go out. You know, I know there’s certain things that I do every single day. It’s just who I am instead of what I do sometimes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love that. I’m just writing a note here real quick to ask you something later. So what what makes you different do you think? There’s, I mean, there’s thousands of people that would love to trade places you. Right? My I was talking to my buddy, Steve Wienhof last night, and he had some great questions on here. But he’s like, how do you stand out versus thousands of other people that wanna do what you do? Speaker Drew Hanlen: Yeah. I mean, my my simple answer would be that I just get better results. And I think the way that I get better results is by all the things that we talked about earlier, the little things. You know, I right now, I have more MBA clients than than you know, NBA all star clients and any other trainer. And, you know, I’ve I’ve been able to help my clients achieve four billion dollars in contracts. And I still watch more film than any trainer that’s up and coming. I still am doing free workouts for the kids in the parks. Just because I love helping grow the game of basketball. You know, this weekend, I’m going and speaking to, the Missouri coaches association speaking to Illinois Coach Association. I’m running a a camp for five to nine year old so that my nephew can experience his first basketball camp. Those things aren’t money makers, but those things are things that I do because I just truly love helping basketball players, coaches, trainers, And so I think that it’s just the relentless hard work with also the obsession of doing everything that I can to help my clients get the best results possible. You know, it’s weird, but like, I I feel more than my clients feel sometimes after a bad game. Like a regular season bad game. My clients can get over because there’s eighty two games in a season, a regular season bad game. They’re like, it was just a bad game. But for me, when they have a bad game, I look at that as, man, I didn’t do everything that I could to prepare them for that game. Whether it was, it in the summertime, I didn’t spend enough time on their finishing that’s why tonight they had a bad finishing or man, was it their ankles have attacked? Did I not see something on a coverage report beforehand that I should have given them or I’m going through all these questions where they might just be like, I just didn’t have it tonight. So you have to have that level of obsession you know, to me, you know, it’s funny because the definition of obsession is the narrowing of of things that and focus that brings you pleasure. And for me, the things that bring me pleasure is helping other people succeed. Whether that’s a businessman that’s trying to turn their life around, whether that’s somebody that’s trying to become financially free or whether that’s a basketball player that’s trying to achieve great things. It doesn’t matter, but, like, my obsession is helping Gilliland so I think that’s what makes me stand out is that I’m willing to do anything in everything, you know, whether that sacrifice, sleep, sacrifice time. You know, there was a year, I think, five or six years ago, and I spent twenty two nights in my own bed. Think about that. Twenty two nights a month in bed, but I’m willing to do that just because, you know, I put other people’s success over my success. And I think that’s why I’ve been able find my own personal success along the way. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s amazing. Gosh. That’s that’s awesome. So, and and another question Steve talked about is the game has changed so much. Right? Back in the day, you, you know, crossover and, between the legs behind the back was a big deal. Then you got the euro step, the step back jump shot. All these different things now. Like, where do you see the game going? And how do you stay a student of the game? Speaker Drew Hanlen: Yeah. To be honest with you, it’s fun for me because, you know, I remember growing up and my birthday present was one ticket to an NBA game. And my Christmas present was a flight to that NBA game. And I remember, you know, how excited I got, you know, I remember also, like, when I used to get, like, the the new shoes, like, I’d get Tracy Mcgrady or Gary Peyton shoes Hanlen and it would be like, you kept the box in your backpack so that the shoes never got scuffed. Like, you know, I remember all those moments, and now I’m on the other side of things where you know, I get to help the best players in the Gilliland I I honestly get to help pivot the game forward. You know, there is a couple of moves that I’ve invented if you will or created or kind of us on the court kind of brainstormed that now are, staples to to young players Gilliland so I would say that the game is ever flowing. The game is ever changing. For me, I’m watching so much film that if I see a mistake happen, like, say, you know, there was one time in transition that I saw, mono ginobili do something. And he literally stumbled, but the defender reacted a certain way And I said, whoa, why did the defender react that way? If you cross the ball one way and you jab or slide the opposite way, does the defender go with the ball or go with you? And I’m will either way you win because if the defender goes with you, now your momentum is a loading and exploding, whereas their momentum is sliding and recovering, Whereas if they don’t go with you, it’s a quick counter, a crossover, and it changes. And I remember seeing that one mistake where you end up getting Gilliland getting, you know, tripped up and then ends up on the floor and shooting free throws. And I turned it into a one on one move. This is like a decade ago. And now it’s become a pattern. So to me, it’s just trial and error. You try a bunch of things out and the things that are working, you keep trying to refine them until they work better. And then when work better. You keep trying to refine them until they work, you know, as best they can. Yeah. And the things that don’t work, you just chuck them. You get rid of them and say, okay. You know what? We tried it. It doesn’t work. You know, I it’s even to the stuff where you look like right now, three pointers are so heavily valued in the NBA that you know, with some of my clients, you know, we started the side step, you know, Gilliland all these kind of different side step threes and different threes that, you know, ways to get inside the three point line and get back outside the three point line. And then you go, alright. So we start shooting floater threes like runner threes off of one foot. And it takes somebody to try it out and say, okay. Now we chart the numbers. Does it make sense? Is that a good shot or not a good shot? Speaker Brett Gilliland: But there’s Speaker Drew Hanlen: a ton of things that we try on an experimental basis that, never see the light of day. And there’s also things we try that we don’t think we’ll see the light of day, and then they use it in a game randomly because it’s somewhere in here, you know, in their bag of tricks. And, then we say, okay, maybe we were wrong. Maybe that does work. And then we kind of, you know, start to kind of reprogram it. So Where are the trends going? I don’t know. It’s just a constant nonstop thing. You know, I do see, obviously, the analytics have taken control of the game, which means defensively, they’re gonna start taking away what the offense is trying to get, which is gonna open it back up to, you know, kind of the older school modern game where more mid range shots more mid post actions or stuff are are made. But the game’s constantly evolving, which is fun for me just because it keeps that challenge on the board where you constantly have to make sure that you’re not falling behind and and you are preparing your clients for anything and everything that could be experiencing when they’re out there on the court. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what do you see the biggest difference between the best versus the average? And I would say the average in the NBA. Right? They’re still some of the best. But, like, in golf, I look at it is number one and versus like number a hundred and fifty on the p g a two or they’re like, you know, one stroke different. That that’s one putt. Right? That’s one four foot putt. What are you seeing as that quote unquote four foot putt in the NBA? Like to what makes them different. Speaker Drew Hanlen: Confidence. Confidence because there’s different reasons why the best players are the best. You know, you look at let’s let’s start, you know, in the, in the MVP conversation and go down like Joellen Bead, one of my clients, what makes him the best is skill dominance, on both ends of the floor. But again, There’s other players. There’s other big guys. Maybe that can’t do it as well as he can, but they they can still do the same moves and and drills and skills as he Hanlen on zero. But they don’t have the confidence to be able to do it against defenders and games against, double teams and different coverages and schemes. Then you look at somebody like, a Yokich, you know, who’s just unbelievably gifted as a creator, a pastor, great touch, great feel, is IQ. Well, there’s a lot of players that are very smart, that are very skilled that have the ability to make good passes and make good reads. But they don’t have the ability to throw with those cross court passes in a tight space. They don’t have the ability to take the extra dribble to get a little bit close the basket. They don’t have the ability to to do these things when they’re guarded. You look at somebody like Janice. Janice is obviously you know, been so dominant to MVPs, a finals MVP, a defense player, you’re all these kind of things. Yana says, unbelievable, like, will to just compete you know, like he’s not an elite shooter. He doesn’t have elite footwork. He doesn’t have elite ball handling. He doesn’t have elite post moves. What he does have elite is his his ability to compete. You know, he’s worked extremely hard to turn himself into the athlete that he is today with strength and physicality. You see how he’s grown. But there’s a lot of players that play hard, but they don’t have the ability to do what he does because, you know, he just has that extra level. So When you go down the line, each guy has a different thing that they’re good at or great at, but really it’s just they’ve been able to turn it on because You also see players when they change roles like a Mackel bridges, for instance. You know, Mackel bridges was on the the Phoenix Suns and was a a really good role player. But then when he got to the Brooklyn Nets and he had better opportunity, that confidence changed. It wasn’t like he had, you know, in three day span that he changed Jim and got so much better, it was that one is opportunity change and two is confidence in that new opportunity change. And so I think that’s what really helps you know, the best of the best stand out is they have the ability to do it. You know, if you think about businessmen, same thing. How many times Do people have great ideas? Like, they’re watching Shark Tank. And they’re like, I thought of that. But it’s like, did you actually do anything to try to make that thing a reality? No. But somebody else had the confidence to go out there and try to build what you thought of, and that’s why they’re a millionaire or a billionaire And that’s why you’re watching their episode on Yeah. I think that the biggest thing in life is just confidence. Having you know, having thoughts and having ideas is one thing, but having the confidence to act on those ideas and then having the confidence and and kind of, you know, persistence to be able to get past the moments of doubt that are going to be in your way at some point along the lines That’s what makes the best of the best. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Great answer. Great answer. So you mentioned, I know we gotta go here in a little couple minutes, but, you mentioned Sona, cold plunge, what other advice would you have for business leaders, that, you know, I’m not an NBA player. So I gotta treat my body, but I still wanna treat my body well. Right? So what are you recommending people do daily to take care of themselves to be at peak performance. Speaker Drew Hanlen: Number one, keep the peace, which means eliminate everything that is not peaceful in your life. And I mean that. You know, the that’s the easiest way for somebody to feel great. You know, I think that there’s too many people chasing things instead of, you know, eliminating things that would actually help them more than the chasing. I always think of like this, you know, this video that I saw, and it was a long time ago. And it was one of these, like, self help motivation kind of Gilliland there was somebody and they had a ton of weight on their back. And they’re trying to sprint, and they’re not going very fast. And they’re trying to sprint, and they’re not going very fast. And somebody just comes over and helps them take off the backpack, the avoid. And now they start sprinting. And it was like, hey, dude, listen, you can either try to run harder or you can just take off the as extra weight and now you’re gonna be moving a lot faster. And I think that’d be the number one thing I’d say is When I look at everybody from the top athletes in the world, the top business people in the world, they’ve been able to, manage stress and eliminate stress and delegate stress better than anybody else. You know? That’s the number one thing that I would say. Second thing that I would say is, you know, what you eat is is so important. And I think that the easiest way, it’s not there’s not a special diet. It’s just, you know, the foods that make you feel good, eat more of that, and the foods that make you feel bad, eat less of that. You know? And then the last thing would just be exercise. Obviously, there’s so many different you know, studies out there that show you that, you know, if you have somebody that’s fat, that doesn’t, you know, that that does exercise and somebody that’s skinny, that doesn’t the fat person, actually, that exercise is actually more healthy in most cases as long as you’re not super overweight. Ideally, you’re you’re you’re exercising and you’re not overweight, that you’re really winning. But there’s even things that, like, I hope my dad lose ninety pounds in a calendar year. Just doing little things. It was eat half of your meal and then save the half for later. And you realize, okay, you’re just your portion size sucks. And then, okay, every time you’re hungry, drink water before you eat and you realize a lot of times you’re thirsty when you think you’re hungry. And then it was get outside. Hey, put your shoes on, start walking around the block. If you go just a lap around the street, that’s okay. If you’re feeling bad, just get back home. At least you walked. If you’re feeling good, then go off for an hour. Those were the three things that we did to start out and it lost ninety pounds just because what happens is you get in the habit of eating well. You get in the habit of eating smaller portions. You get in the habit of, you know, getting out of the house every single day instead of just the days you feel like it. But I mean, there’s a million things they can do. I think that the problem is when people try to do all they try to, like, start this new program. It’s too much. And then the intensity is there, but not the consistency that we talked about earlier. I would say do little things like I always say starter steps. Like what is the smallest action that you’re willing to take and that you’re gonna do even on the days that you don’t feel like doing them do those, build up the habits and then grow those habits until they become things that actually benefits you in the long run. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I love that. It’s so simple. Right? But yet, it’s so powerful because I think some people like, alright. I haven’t worked out in months, but now I’m gonna work out six times this week. It’s like, well, dude, that you haven’t done it at all. So you really think you’re gonna work out six times this week. It’s kinda crazy. So last question for you. Future greater than your past. You can see the sticker here having a future greater than your past. When you hear those words, that’s what our mission is to help people achieve as a future greater than their past. What’s that mean? You. Speaker Drew Hanlen: Yeah. I mean, to me, honestly, I always think back of, you know, how I grew up, and I saw my parents make so many sacrifices for me you know, I remember when I was sixteen years old, and the day before my sixteenth birthday, I remember my mom coming in the Hanlen, and my mom pulled me aside and was like, hey, Drew, just so you know tomorrow on your sixteenth birthday, you’re getting a car. And I, like, start smiling. She goes, now the reason I’m telling you early is because it’s not the car that any of your friends have. It’s not the car that you probably want. It is a car that has a hundred and eighty thousand miles it has a huge dent in the driver’s side, or it squeaks a little bit. You know, the tires squeak a little bit. The brakes squeak a little bit. It’s gonna get you point a to b. But the reason I’m telling you today is because tomorrow morning, when you walk outside, I want you to be happy in as you can be. I don’t want your dad to be, like, sad that you weren’t appreciative of the car. Now a little what you didn’t didn’t know is was so happy just to have a car because it made and, man, I got to get to the gym and back, I got to get to my ride, got some back, whatever. But that, to me, my past, I never realized we were, not as well off when I was younger because you know, when when I got Abercrombie and fit stuff, it might have been a a hand me down or, it might have been from a re use it shop or it might have been from a garage sale. But my parents did everything that they could to make sure that we still had all the things that we needed to have or wanted to have you know, if we wanted to play sports, they made sure that we were on the teams that we wanted to play for. If we wanted to travel, they would, you know, I remember my mom you know, cleaning, literally cleaning houses. You know, just so that my sisters could go to St. Joseph’s Academy, which was a private school that had, you know, sports teams and academics, and she did that so that that they could afford going there. But I just think about that when I think about my past. And so when I think about future beating and greater, I always think about man. At some point in every family’s history, there’s somebody that changes the course of their entire Gilliland I wanna be that person, you know, and and I really do think that that’s the one special bond that my clients and I share. A lot of them come from the same backgrounds that I came from, and we get to be the person that changes that. Like, that, you know, our families aren’t going to have to struggle or stress over financial concerns anymore. Our families are gonna get, you know, my nieces and nephews when they get to go to basketball games, They get to be on the court before the games. They get to meet their favorite players. They get to, you know, FaceTime with, you know, it’s their birthday, and Jason Taylor’s their favorite player. I’m Face timing them with I didn’t get to do those things, but they do because, you know, their future is gonna be better than, you know, all of our collective past. So you know, when you said that, that’s what it brought me back to is just I’ve seen all the sacrifices that my parents made, to make sure that we had such a blessed life. And I also realized that, you know, there are tons of people out there that pray for our worst days. And so keeping for that that perspective in mind, I’m going man. How can I help as many people as possible experience the exact same thing that I’m experiencing, which is this, you know, this this, you know, feeling of you know, most appreciation and gratitude, to be able to do something that I love each and every day when I wake up? Speaker Brett Gilliland: True Hanlen, you are the freaking man. I know you gotta get going. Hang with me when I hit record, or finish recording here, but, man, awesome. Awesome freaking information. Gilliland thanks so much for being on the circuit of success.

On this episode of Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Alana Stott, a security expert and Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. Alana and Brett discuss her and her husband’s journey, which began with her husband spending a lot of time in Libya and then cycling from Argentina to Alaska to raise money for a mental health charity. They also talk about the importance of forgiveness and how to let go of resentment and anger, as well as the importance of dealing with disappointment and finding the silver lining in difficult situations. Alana encourages listeners to pick up a copy of her book, She Who Dares. Full Youtube Video     Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your Host, Brett Gilliland. I’ve got Alana Scott with or Stott with me today. I’m sorry, Alana. How are you? Speaker Alana Stott: Oh, it’s okay. I’m completely used to that. Thank you very much. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I told myself I wasn’t gonna do that and here I did it. Be careful what we tell ourselves. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: I know. Well, my maiden name was Dylan, so I thought Stott would be an upgrade, but it’s Stott. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s right. It’s just just as hard. Right? So where are you calling in from? Speaker Alana Stott: I’m in California right now Speaker Brett Gilliland: right now. Okay. Very nice. How’s California weather good? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. It’s been good. Yeah. It’s starting to cool down a bit so I’m again. I mean, the cool down here is still like super hot for scotland. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Yeah. I was just in Oregon, golfing last week in they said they don’t even have air conditioners up there. And, like, we it was like sixty five was the high, and they said it was that was hot for them. So we hit we hit the jackpot, so that was good. Weather was amazing. Yeah. We’re good. Well, if you can Speaker Alana Stott: Go ahead. Pardon me. No. I don’t mind it, but, I I do like to the cooler temperatures for sure. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Absolutely. So if you can, let us give us a little background. What’s made you the woman you are today? You’ve got a lot of stuff going on, and we’ll get to that and and see your books back there in the background. And and Kelly Sharon spoke very highly of you and said, you gotta get her on the podcast, and Then I saw you were in Stott Louis recently Gilliland we’re at, a women in business event. You met Katie Collier. So it’s just a small world. It just continues to amaze me. But if you can, just give us a lay of the land. What’s made you the woman you are today? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. Super small world. Absolutely. Well, I was born in Aberdeen in Scotland, which a small small city in Scotland, but it’s also the oil and gas capital of Europe. So it’s small but mighty, I guess. I grew up and while would be kind of more of a we call it a counter lift date. I guess you guys mean like the kind of gateway kind of areas. So it was kind of an a a city that was wealthy and poor. That was it. That it had an overall middle ground. It was that. My mom was a single mom, so we kinda grew up that we had to be half to herself since she provided the the basic needs, which was always meant for us, but everything else we had to work on ourselves. So I started working now is eleven. And that really was just a job that I guess it got me from, nothing to just been able to to do, like, similar things. So they didn’t actually pay me in this first job that I worked as, and they would pay me in food. But it was really cool food. So it was something a bit different from from what I was used to. But what I did do was I used that experience to learn about base like customer service, how to operate cash, all these kind of things. And what that allowed them was when I was twelve, I applied for a job and got this job in a a fast food place, but it was like a small kind of independent run fast food place and the guy that ran it was an alcoholic so he used to disappear every bunch of time as soon as the pub would open, he went. So I ended up pretty much just running this this little place by myself. So having a really quickly learn things like it was it was fish and chips, so you were using a fryer and everything. So even those simple things, twelve years old, you were having a quick around how to use these types of things, which then led me on to my next my next job. And then again, I was paid a bit more. And then a job came up when I was thirteen in tally sales, but my brother wanted this job again. He wanted to start earning some money for himself. So I said I would call the the organization forum because he was too nervous to do it, which doesn’t go well for Talleys. It was to be honest. I called up the lady and she actually ended up offering me a job while I was on the phone. So at thirteen, I got this job in this telemarket environment that was a hundred percent commission based, and that was really when I learned about how you can make money a different way. And then, unfortunately, around that time, my mom also getting really Gilliland eventually she she passed away. So it went from earning just to earning a little bit of extras to earning a bit of more money to get more luxury items, I guess, to then if this was now we were earning to pay the rent and pay the food and had a younger brother as well. We had to look after. So I’d gone from from, again, this is my next second Stott. But luckily I can learn along the way how to make money in different different ways. So we were able to cover the rent, but This was around about the time I then had to leave school because looking after my brother’s school, two jobs, it just wasn’t really working. So at fifteen, I was away from the educational world, I guess, but I was in the in the working environment. Around about that same time, my, younger brother’s dad came back and and kinda won custody of him. There was a small battle, but fifteen could do much to to keep him. And he took him away to live in Gilliland, and I followed because I’d only ever known my little brother in my life. So I I followed down to england and ended up working in, like, hotel chamber made in, cleaning rooms, and just doing anything I could bear. So I lived I lived there for for a small portion of time, but you you know, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen. I was super vulnerable to everything else that was going on in the world So I, unfortunately, I was in a position where I was sexually assaulted as well. So I went through a process of, a court case and things. And this is really where I learned a lot about the the system and how how sexual abuse works and and all this this the process that follows it, and that was really where I felt like I needed to learn a lot more about that area and how this is really how I started got got into the process of working in human trafficking and and fighting sexual abuse. During this whole process, I was working more in financial sectors. So I became a a debt collector, and then I ended up as a bank manager, and then they met my husband who was in the special forces, the UK special forces. He was, you know, kind of at the top of his game and then he got injured in a terrible accident in Oman and left the military after sixteen years. So we had to find a new career for him. And that was learned about the time we both decided to go into close protection. I’d learned that there was a lack of people able to help in the human trafficking environment I wanted to do something that was a bit different to what I’d been doing. So we both went into train as well, he was already fully trained as a close protection officer or bodyguard, whatever you wanna call it. But he needed his civilian qualification. So we both went and done a course together. And around that same time, I found out I was pregnant with my daughter. So Let’s again. It was a new career, but but pregnant bodyguards weren’t in high demand at this Speaker Brett Gilliland: point. Yeah. Right. Speaker Alana Stott: I ended up then learning a lot more the back end of the security business. So I was planning and doing a lot of the planning logistics and things like that. So then when Arab spring happened, which the revolution in North Africa. My husband ends up spending a lot of time there and he was in Libya for pretty much the most of everything. So then that again changed the path of what we were doing, and Libya just became a new new part of our world. Fast forward a little bit more. Dean was getting himself into more and more dangerous situations. So then he decided that what we decided together, he thought we were gonna take her out of that. And the how did it come up here? We said if you needed a new challenge, and then we decided that he would he would do a bike ride, so he was gonna cycle from Argentina to Alaska, which is fourteen thousand miles, and we were gonna raise money for a mental health Stott. So we’ve moved into that, and that was great. I I furthered my work in finance with maybe in learning more more about how to ask for money and how you raised money. I used my experience from debt collecting from the bank lines. And just really learned about the process of asking for money. So we raised over a million dollars on that campaign, And then that led us to move to America in the middle of COVID, and here we are. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, that’s a hell of a resume. And and the fourteen thousand miles happened. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. Yeah. He broke it in ninety nine days and he broke two road records doing it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Wow. So what was that like? Speaker Alana Stott: I mean, that’s so this was something completely new. He was coming back from from Libya. He’d gone from working with a special version three had this team around him all the time to working on his own. He’d been injured, so there was slight limitations to what his leg had been ripped. His ACL is NCL is hammerstein was gone. So there was lots of stuff he he couldn’t do. So he was in Libya for the most part on his own on certain operations. If he would come home and if there would be, like, shirts just soaked in blood, there would be Yeah. In this is what happened. It was just super close. Like, it’s magnifying for me running out with this patch. So but I knew that you couldn’t do a night a five job, he wouldn’t be sat behind an office desk that would just kill him more than anything. So we needed to find some sort of adrenaline in Speaker Brett Gilliland: the bus Speaker Alana Stott: that just wouldn’t kill him. And then it was around about the same time him and Prince Harry were friends, and Harry was setting up this mental health campaign that was being in a collaboration and mental health priorities together. So he said, would you mind doing it if you were gonna do it, do it for for this cause to try and raise money? So we were like, yeah. Absolutely. Let’s do that. So the focus had to be undine. First of all, getting fit and being able to cycle this hundred and fifty miles a day in minimum. So he had to keep his focus on that, and then I had to keep the focus on the fundraising. The issue that I actually came up with us was because Harry was involved, we were like under a microscope. It was completely. Then he met Megan during this whole process, and then it it got even worse for for everything. So there was there was zero benefit to having a royal name attached to this. I can tell you. But what I’d done was similar to what I’d done probably when I was eleven, I took everything that we gained and just used it to to learn as much as I could about that situation that we were in. So as an example, we have we had eleven non profits under this this campaign that we’re working with, and I managed to secure two hundred thousand in two hundred thousand pounds donation from one one organization, but the royal household had actually met with his organization before they were a bit I I guess a bit peeved that they hadn’t got to them first. So we then had to go through a bit of a legal process where I had to then spend money to be able to accept this money. And that was really frustrating because you’re just trying to raise money for a call. It’s what you’ve got all this retate basically to go through politics therapy to go through. So I learned so much about that test during that about what there was involved when it came to actually asking for money to receive in money, how to accept money. There was all sorts we had to think about that I I probably super naive to at the beginning. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And then the Harry and Megan thing happening in the middle of that, that doesn’t help stuff. I wouldn’t think. Speaker Alana Stott: No. I mean, well, I think they had their own thing going on and because you were funny because when we started the whole process, we had very little social media dial and Dean didn’t have a presence online whatsoever. He was gonna be Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — you know, Speaker Alana Stott: he did special forces. He was completely dark. So, Dean got away from that to being really put under a bit of a spotlight. And a lot of this, for example, when he broke the world record, he broke it on the eleventh of May, and the wedding was on the nineteenth of May. So we flew home in time through the wedding, but then all the questions were in would the wedding like? How was it? What was she wearing with Steven? Not one question about well, you’ve just cycle Fourteen. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Broga world record in fourteen thousand miles, but how was the wedding? Exactly. Speaker Alana Stott: And then Speaker Brett Gilliland: they had their didn’t they do a Netflix thing or something? I don’t follow it. So I just know they There was a lot of drama there from what I hear. So, so let let’s talk about like so you’re doing this stuff when you’re the high profile bodyguards and different things. I mean, that’s a unique A lot of people listen this probably don’t have or need a bodyguard, but, I still think it’s fascinating is what kind of work are you doing? So apply that work to the work of, like, the everyday person that what we do, whether it’s in a conference room, a boardroom, whatever you have, what what are some of the parallels there? Speaker Alana Stott: Know, it’s it’s everything like the the logistics and planning that go into security operation are the exact same things as if you were plan and, you know, a takeover of a company or if you were starting up a new business and this is the same ingredients that goes into it. And it depends how well you do it as to what your outcome is, Gilliland that I’ve watched many security companies fail. Over the restart, our security come in two thousand and ten, and over that year’s amount of businesses I’ve seen go down, when the operators are some of the best that I’ve ever known in the special forces world, they were, you know, the number one. The skills that these guys have brought to incredible, but the things that they lacked, and then they never went and found. The the biggest one that I ever come across is their inability to understand their value and to actually send invoices and to be on top of their business and and to treat it as a business, you know, because they would be you know, this incredible skills have been able to rescue hostages out hostile environments or, you know, take celebrities around the world or whatever area of security you’re working, you could be in a mining in in Mexico or you could be, you know, on the red carpet in LA. When you’re not running the actual business correctly, none of that can matter. And that some has something I see all the time is that that they’re not running the back end properly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I would assume most of the big, big celebrities these days have detail like yourselves. Is that correct? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. If we stay away up well away from celebrities now, but, the most of them do have a level of security. And and again, that’s some one of the jobs that we do now is we do vulnerability assessment. So we actually go and assess the security package that is existing within clients. And often it can be that a person either, normally people don’t engage security until it’s Stott the fact that they actually need it. That’s their disappointing point. What I mean, what we do is we provide vulnerability assessments. We’ll go in and we’ll check out a person’s advice and check out everything from their their children right up to their businesses and see any holes, any loops, anything that people into up to cyber security is a huge huge issue for most people now. That’s not actually what we do. We’re more of the physical but we do look at them and see what they’ve got in place. And we can put them in the in the right direction, but a lot of time, security incident had to take, like, Kim Kardashian and Paris, you know, when she was attacked in the hotel room in Paris, that was when she upped her security massively. Now I would argue there’s a bit of an advantage taken there because she didn’t need when she went up to, but the fear was used to then see what we’ve got going this entire and on. And a lot of the times, this type of people are are huge taking advantage of because they don’t understand exactly what it is that they need and people see them as a massive paycheck, you know, and we can get whatever we want out of these people. They know what they’re doing. So for us, that’s a lot of what we do. You’ll go and assess what they’ve actually got and if they need it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I assumed in today’s world too is if you know you’re going to this part of the country or some place in the world, there’s pre work that goes on too. So, like, I know people that travel that may wanna start investing in that, right, that they get a pre travel plan. So if you’re gonna go overseas, maybe a a company like yourselves or other ones, another guy I know. They will go ahead and pre plan your trips on which part of the the town to go to and which part not to. And, you know, transportation to have versus not have. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. And and, you know, what what me and Dean try and do is make your life as happy and as easy as possible because the worst the worst thing that can is when you engage security is the the fear of god into on a daily basis about how dangerous the world is. And that’s That’s not what we’re doing. I mean, we’ve got three kids and we raise those kids to be security aware. They’re not in fear. They’re just aware of their surroundings and their conscience that they’ve They’ve got this, you know, peripheral vision that a lot of people are kinda lacking now. And what that’s what we’re trying to teach your appliance. So, yeah, we’ll do full planning on where they’re going. You know, sometimes going to Africa, on a a safari, we’ll wanna do a full check on what it is they’re doing where they’re going hotels they’re staying at. But what we’re doing as well is we’re giving them advice on their social media use, and and if they’re Stott real time or when they’re posting, how they’re posting it often I’ve looked at new clients, and before I would even meet I could look at, look at just their public profile page, and I could tell you where their kids go to school, what time they leave, where they live, where normal hangout is, you know, I can find out so much about them just by what they’re putting on the internet themselves. So what we’ll try to do is say that we don’t some celebrities want to do that, so we don’t want to stop them. But what we wanna do is say, well, you don’t need to post it on the second that you’re there, or if you’ve of your house, you know, not have the house number or not have the location on or then we’ll look at their children because their children are often usually the ones that people will look at to get information. And so many times, we can find kids with Snapchat location services turned on or you know, school jumpers and images. There’s so many things that we go through. A big a big part of what we do is child online exploitation as well. So that’s a a big part of our business. Yeah. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: that’s all these kids know. I mean, you think about it. Right? I mean, we didn’t grow up with that stuff, but they do. And we talk to our kids about that. It’s it’s crazy. It’s scary. I find it crazy too. This Airbnb thing I see they’re doing now is where these celebrities are renting their houses out and you can come and stay at the back of their house. I mean, obviously, this is some sort of partnership, but I would think there’d have to be security involved in that. Have you seen that? Speaker Alana Stott: I actually haven’t seen that. You know, this sounds a bit scary. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I saw like Ashton Kutcher and, I can’t think of his wife’s name. They have some farmhouse there in California. And, like, you can rent it and they’ll be there. Like, you can rent, like, the guest house or something. I’m like, that doesn’t sound Right. But anyway, that’s for another podcast, I guess. So let’s let’s, change the subject here and, let’s talk about, success. How do you define that? And, what does it mean to you? Speaker Alana Stott: Well, you know, we’ve been through so much over the years, I guess. When we can sit down with our kids and we know that what we’re doing isn’t affecting them in any negative way. I think that’s when we know that we’re we’re was successful. What we do on a daily basis can be so varied. It can be, you know, from doing the security work, Dean’s film and a TV show in Mexico. Right? Now, we can be, doing things about human trafficking with the kids. We’re doing something every day, but as long as I can sit down at night and sit down and Stott, are they happy? Are they safe? Are they, you know, following the right path? And that to me is is success. I know that the the answer that the it might be to do with financial, but that is that means absolutely nothing to our family. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s true. I mean, I think you’re young and professional, that’s what you think about. But as you grow and mature, hopefully, with your career, it’s, it’s more than that. And that’s why I always ask the question because for me, success can certainly be part of that can be financial, but I think there’s a bigger picture there with, you know, time with family, time with friends. You know. Speaker Alana Stott: I Do you if you focus on the financial side of it, I think that might end up being a failure for you because I think you’ve got to look at you know, what is happiness, what is gonna make you sit down every night and say, you know, I’m I’m good here. This this is awesome. And I don’t think having piles of money is ever gonna actually do that. I think, you know, they’re seeing that the kids are happy, seeing that every day we’re doing something positive to to benefit the world. If we we’re seeing those things. And I think that success isn’t those financial gains come. I I do believe fight fully in putting out the universes to exactly what neat. And I think that, you know, often I’m asked how do you how do you do the things you do? How do you get the network that you’ve got? You know, you’re out there. I think if you want something, it’s what have you got to offer other people? You know, I say that, you know, don’t go looking for what they can do for you. What can you do for person. And if you’re if you’re doing it expecting something in return, then don’t do it. Just just don’t do it for Stott give, and it will come back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I hundred percent agree with that. What you put out will come back. Be careful what you put out. Right? Talk about the gift of high expectations. I assume you do that as a as a parent, but also just for yourself, when you hear the gift of high expectations, what comes to mind for you? Speaker Alana Stott: Do you know, we we fought this really terrible habit in this family of never celebrating our successes. Every time we achieve something, it doesn’t of your breaking records. I I got my MB from King Charles last month, and we didn’t stop to celebrate anything. And we when are we gonna do it? And I was actually speaking to a friend of ours bedros, and he was saying that that this mindset that we’ve got doesn’t allow us. To celebrate because we’re at the end. We’re not at the the end game, so we keep going because that might be like a little ticking block, but we’ve got next one to achieve. We’ve got the next one to achieve. I I I believe that in our household, we all think that exactly the same way. We we do have to Stott. We’ll wait a second to tie five each other. Okay. Next. What we’re doing now? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what was that award you got again? Speaker Alana Stott: It was an MB, a member of the most excellent order of the British empire. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Wow. So tell us about that. What is that? That’s a big deal? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. I received it. So it was a King Charles’ first award, and it was for my services to vulnerable women and mental health health awareness. So it was it’s I believe it was for the work that I when I speaking to him when I received it was for the work within the human trafficking. So, I don’t know exactly what it gets you, but I got a little medal and got Stott to meet him in July. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And, nice little weekend with the family there. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. It was lovely. Actually, the day he got coronated in Gilliland, so there was a second coronation firm Scott. So we had a full day. Lovely. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. Talk about your book. She who dares. I know that recently came out. So let’s, spend a little time on that. Brag on that book for a minute. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. She really dares came from so Dean wrote his book after the bike arrived the rent list. And when he wrote that, I’m obviously featured a little bit in that. So a few people have said, well, when’s the line? Is book coming I’ve actually always I’ve been writing since I was a little girl. I just Stott when mom died, and actually then during COVID, I picked it up again and thought I’m gonna gonna and as I was writing Shihu bears, and I was writing stories about some of the things at times, like, I talked to people about it, and they were like, that happened to me or I’d been through the same thing, and I was having these conversations. And I was like, I was nervous about putting the book out because you’re literally putting out your life to to the world and the more Speaker Brett Gilliland: vulnerable I spoke. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. More of people I spoke to, the more I was like, no, this does need to be shared. And it’s been great. Like, every time I’m receiving a message about somebody who’s been through something similar or, you know, that hasn’t really told other people about what they’re going through or they’re struggling with some and and they’re able to read it and pull from it. That’s such a blessing to be able to do that. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: how have you through all that? I mean, through the blessings and the success and you know, obviously, we talk a lot about success on the circle of success. But how do you how do you find yourself to dig yourself up out of a hole? Pick yourself up off the ground. Right? You get knocked down. We gotta get right back up. How do you do that personally to find success in your life? Speaker Alana Stott: I in high task for money, the the money books that I’ve wrote, I talk a lot about failure because I I do see failure as the stepping stones are your is a blessing. We’re learning every single time. We’re all we’re only failing in your research, Heather. Our our knocks. The one thing that I found from I I I I fail. I put myself up, but I go through it. And it’s it’s not always easy. I always give myself a little bit of time. I give myself a twenty especially with the big stuff. Some of them big happens, Deanel always say, take a breath, sleep, and then deal with it. Normally within twenty four hours of fix that or came up with a solutioner. But I also think forgiveness is a big one. I hear a lot of people holding on to anger and resentment and the pain of things that they’ve been through. I I feel like I forgive I’ve always felt like I can forgive a lot easier, and I don’t hold on to any resentment anger. I think it just so weight you that seeing people do I’ve seen how Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. — sad to make them and how long it can make them. I feel like you don’t maybe necessarily need to the the evil that someone’s put on you doesn’t need to stay with you. You can release that. You can get rid of it and then put it away from you. Forgive that. Forgive what’s happened and move on Speaker Brett Gilliland: So how do you do that though? So I mean, that’s easy to say, I think. Right? And you had experience with that. But if I’m a person right now that’s in this dark moment and they’re having this issue at work or at home, I think they might say, yeah, right. My deal’s different. So how do I put it away? How do I just put it away? Put it in a box, put it in a shelf and move on? How do I do Speaker Alana Stott: listen, the more the more it stays with you, the more it’s gonna hold on to everything that you could possibly be in the future and the more you’ve written. It’s it’s not easy to say. What you’ve just done to me was first thing, but I’m gonna forgive you and I’m gonna move on. But you have to do it for yourself and your family because every every minute that that’s holding on to you in and the pain and the resentment and the hatred, it’s gonna go on to the next generation as well. And I don’t care if it’s to do with, you know, sexual assault of its PTSD, if it’s, you know, somebody’s robbed you, whatever it might be. If you’re holding on to that anger and pain and hatred and all those hard negative feelings inside you, it is going on to your next generation one hundred percent. So to say that it’s not that easy to let go of, it’s your responsibility to let go of it. It’s your responsibility for the next. You’re you’re a little people to say, no, we’re gonna Stott gonna do it. And, yeah, it’s it’s it’s not easy thing. I know so many people who who kind of cling on to the anger for dear life because it’s almost it’s become part of them. You have to find that outlet to pull it. For me, I’m always looking at the future. I’m looking I’m looking at the bigger picture. I’ve got three little people that hundred percent need me to guide them along the way. But there’s also a world of people out there that that need help. Every single day, I see people that need help. And every time I feel anger, resentment or pain anything. It stops me being able to help them. So I look at it. It’s not about me. It’s about everyone else around me and everything I can’t do. So if you’re kind of holding on to it, I hate to say it. It can be a little bit selfish, so let it go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Again, that letting go part is that it’s a self talk do you think? I mean, how do you can truly convince yourself? Because, I mean, I’ve had those issues that follow you around a little bit. And I think I’m pretty good at shrugging them off. I call it the bounce back theory where the most successful I’ve seen, people that I’ve seen, get bad news, but they bounce back really, really quickly. Right? But then you also have people to hold on to it for days. So, again, I would ask almost the same question that was how? Like, am I How do I release that to where it doesn’t become part of my everyday life? Speaker Alana Stott: Again, I mean, I can always speak from me, and I can say that I’ve seen people have gone through some of the most horrendous things I’ve dealt with people in awful circumstances. And I never say that my pains worse than everybody else. So I think I I hear that a lot that people think, oh, yeah, you know, that it’s about the fact that you didn’t get as bad as, like, I see into I’ve watched people that have been through sexual assault in the household, but just take that. And maybe the girls have gone through it, but maybe the sons watched it or witnessed it or had to listen to it. He never maybe they experienced it, but I can say, I have watched the girls get over it, and the and the guys struggle to get over it. Now whose pain was worse, but who was going through worse. I don’t think there’s any way to say who went through worse, but one’s managed to get over it and one’s still struggling to get past it. And I think that the the people that have seen pull through it have got a higher purpose. They’ve got other things that are more important than their pain that they went through. And I I do feel like if we could get out and we can see that there’s so much more that you’re needed for. You can’t be stuck there. It’s have to keep moving forward. The the yeah. Do I still feel pain from things that have gone on the path? Yeah. But I don’t give myself time to think about it. I feel like I’ll use that energy and know that I was put through those tests for a reason. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. So what so what would you tell yourself now? I mean, knowing that stuff now and getting to their side of some pretty, you know, horrific things in your life. What advice would you give that 10:15, twenty year younger person, younger self? Speaker Alana Stott: I go back a lot, you know, I’ll do if I’m doing a lot of meditation to kinda do like to go back to them, give them a little hug from my older self. And I think that I feel like if we if we done that a bit more as well, that we can go back and, you know, see people criticizing themselves a lot, you know, we can we can critical about our bodies who we are. And I often say, like, go to your, like, deep state and go back to that little girl or, like, little boy and say that same thing to them. It’s a lot more difficult. To criticize that way. So for me, it would be just you are you are, it sounds so cliche and so cheesy, but you are enough, like, kids right now are competing themselves to absolutely everything inside of there, and it’s really sad. And for for Little Elana, first while I would just give her huge amounts of hugs and tell her that she is special and that she is required in this earth for so much more than what she’s going through right now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s great. Just a big hug. Right? Sometimes you just need a big hug. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: My son needed a big hug. My second son turned sixteen this past weekend, and it was Labor Day yesterday. And so the DMV was closed. He was supposed to get his driver’s license today. And, then something went wrong the system because it needed three business days. Well, Labor Day doesn’t count as a business day. So we had to give him a big hug today. But my point to that story is Sometimes we get disappointing news. Right? And I’m a firm believer in, yes, it’s okay to be disappointed. It’s okay that you’re mad that you’re not getting your driver’s license. Let’s also try to flip the script on that and say, you know what? But there’s a plan for that. Right? It was raining pretty hard this morning. Maybe god did put you in a in a vehicle during and doing your test during that. Right? So always trying to find, in my opinion, that that silver lining, that one thing when I’m disappointed, of why the plan was. It is what it is. The plan’s written. Now I just gotta deal with it. Again, okay to be upset, but I gotta deal with it. Thoughts on that. Speaker Alana Stott: Hundred percent. Like, you’re meant to be where you’re meant to be when you’re meant to be there. It’s it’s all there is another planet, and that disappointment of the, you know, I was gonna buy that house from your sales fell through or or that happened for a reason. And and you’ll know that 05:10 years, you’re just backing Well, imagine if we’d done that and that had happened and that had gone through. Yeah. Usually usually it becomes clear eventually. And I think just in the process, you know, put in the work, do what you need to do to make it happen. And then if it’s not happening, and you’ve got an ability to change it, then go for it. But things that the driving license plates is shut, but also understand that deep my husband’s got a real terrible habit of comparing his situation to our twelve year old daughter who can’t go to the mall that day because a friend, you know, has to go somewhere Gilliland then she’s stuck at home and she can’t go to tomorrow, and it’s the worst thing in the world. And then Dino’s, you know, Dean gave the list of things that he’s currently dealing with, well, you know, there’s people stuck in Afghanistan. I’m trying to evacuate and there’s this, and that much your problems. Right. This is as big as that. So we got to My Speaker Brett Gilliland: my problems are bigger than your twelve year old going to the mall problem. But still for her, that’s her Afghanistan in getting somebody out of their problem. Right? You you mentioned meditation a little bit ago. So, walk us through that. A lot of people listen to that or listen to this. We talk about it all the time. How do you meditate? Why has it been so important in your life? Speaker Alana Stott: So this was something that one thousand percent did not come easy to me. I found it really, really difficult to just be present with myself. And then I read, the warrior mindset, and I I learned a little bit more about the the way the samurai worked, and that was something that really resonated with me. I I loved how were able to switch it on and off, and the everything I’d seen about meditation up to them was about, you know, sitting for twenty minutes, sitting for thirty minutes, having all that I really struggled with that. What I liked about the the samurai method was being able to switch it on instantly and switch between your waves. Really, really quickly and just have those moments and how I’ve used that now is when I’m feeling that overwhelm everything’s too much here. There’s so much going on. I can just do that little moment of just bringing myself back, sat in and myself, and then, okay, we can move. Then, yeah, we can do the twenty minute ones, or we can do, you know, give ourselves some real me time, but I feel like those little instant moments are Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Alana Stott: better for me for me. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I I would agree. I think I’ve had to learn the years. If you told me sit down and just like kind of breathe or think about your now don’t think for twenty minutes, it’s impossible. But I I I what I have found is I’ve built that muscle up that five minutes is more than enough time to change your life with meditation. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: then you’ll get used to doing ten and fifteen and is, but I still don’t sit down for twenty minutes and just meditate. Right? I’m I’m at 05:10, maybe fifteen, if I’m lucky, Speaker Alana Stott: just Speaker Brett Gilliland: because my brain goes to me of different places. Speaker Alana Stott: And I think you’ve got to understand what the purpose of doing it is. For me, it is just to re center myself and pull myself back in and just just, you know, breathe everything together again and, okay, tackle it again. And sometimes I might need that bit longer, and sometimes that moment will do. So it’s it’s up to finding your own positioning, but I’d I’ve never, yeah, I’ve never been a fan of the plane of Rachel here every day at 10:00. I wanna sit down through — Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Alana Stott: twenty minute, you know, that’s not me. I need to be able to do it. Do it sporadically and on the move. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Do it on your time? Yes. So if I were to follow you around, with a camera for a few days and see something numerous things maybe that that are day in, day out. You do not fail on those. You will you will not miss those. Are there any habits in there that you think are important people to know? Speaker Alana Stott: I’m making my bed, but something that I’m I think it was Edmund Craven who wrote the book, make your own bed. And I’ve followed it ever since and every single day without fail that bed is and I think that it’s such an important habit that the kids do have Dean does because it does, as as he says, it gives you that first achievement of the day, but it gives you that for for me to see an unmade bed, it’s almost like you are setting yourself up for of a failure for the day. Like, you’ve, like, you’ve not got that discipline and that this is this is what I’m gonna do for the rest of the day is make sure that it’s all done. So I’ve I’ve I’ve and the principal kept I mean, now that make her bed. I make my bed if I’m in a hotel. I make my bed if I’m in somewhere this place doesn’t matter. The bed is made when we get out because we’re up and we’re ready to go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, it’s fine. I was smiling when you said that because I was on this golf trip. I’ve mentioned a couple times, last week. I’m with, you know, me and seven other guys, so eight of us out there. And, we all had our own rooms in this little, like, cottage thing and when the guys comes by and we’re talking and I’m starting to make my bed and he’s like, you make your bed? We’re on, like, a trip like this. I’m like, Well, yeah, man. I’m like, and I wasn’t perfect. I’m sure I missed it a day or two while I was there, but I’m like, yeah. I’m like, even if I play bad golf today, I I don’t do well, whatever. I’ve at least accomplished that and I come home to a nice tidy clean room. It just feels better. Right? Because I and I do believe that. I know it’s silly to be talking about making a bed, you know, our kids were like that. We’re like that with them too. You at least accomplish something and you come back to a tidy space because if you have a bad day, man, least the last thing I wanna do is come back to a place that’s just disheveled already. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. And there’s something about your mindset. The bed the bed then goes to the room to to everything else, to your towel, you know, on the on the floor. Yeah. You know, you can take your own responsibility. Even if you do have a housekeeper or help these are your responsibilities. You know, you pick up your own clothes, you tidy up your own room, you put your your things away. Everything in our house, everything is is ship shape. You know, when we see, when we see messes, I think it just it it transcends through the rest of your life when you’re leaving a mess and it’s kind J. It goes to everything else too. So — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Alana Stott: Stott your own stuff out. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: What mother Theresa say? Front, sweep your own front porch. If everybody did that, there will be a lot better this. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: It’s a thousand percent true. Where I’m from in Aberdeen, I know my great auntie Molly, who’s my biggest inspiration. She died twenty twenty when she was ninety five. And — Wow. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Alana Stott: she she was the one who kind of taught me what some of those little tiny little Abridine used to be such a clean little town. It’s a city. Sorry. But the the the main street was Stott, you know, everybody cleaned their own front pavement. And now it’s almost like that’s not my responsibility. I’m not touched I’m not doing it. And then there’s just garbage all over the streets in there, and it’s just been left to, there’s a, a generation that they knew what they were doing there. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, last couple of questions here. If you, when you hear the words and and see this symbol right here in the microphone for those watching, achieving a future greater than your past. What comes to mind when you hear that? Speaker Alana Stott: That’s probably similar to my keep keep moving forward where I’m from is one thousand percent where I Stott, but it’s not who I’m gonna be and what I’m doing in the future, you know, The future for me every day is bigger and bigger, and it includes more and more about helping other people when that the main purpose for us for us. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. Alright. I’m pulling my phone out here to get your Instagram up. We’re gonna play the the Instagram game. So pick a number between one and ten. Speaker Alana Stott: Four. Speaker Brett Gilliland: K. Four. Pick a number between one and three. Two. Well, this is perfect. I mean, she did not pay me to do this, but this is it’s the post was your of your book, the cover of your book. And it says, have you got your copy yet? She who dares she who dares out now. Kelsey Sharon. She’s got a little post on here about it. She’s excited. So again, talk about that. Why should somebody go out and pick it up and read it? Speaker Alana Stott: Gosh. Kelsey is my number one fan. That’s that’s awesome. You know, it’s just it’s a book that is good for for men and women. You know, I love that I’ve had people from Jack Carr reviewing it too, Kelsey, to it doesn’t matter who you are. It’s got something in it for for everyone I hope. I hope that it gives a look. Or as you say, it’s the main theme that I’m getting about the book pick yourself back up. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, and that’s true. Right? Because if you get knocked down and you don’t get back up, well then you’re guaranteed a loss. So what’s the worst thing? Just get back up do it one more time. It works. So where can our listeners find more of you? Speaker Alana Stott: Every at allana dot com and allana dot across various, social media, YouTube, etcetera. We’ve just started our own podcast as well, which is behind the scene, which is releases on Monday, which is the eleventh. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Yeah. Well, we will put that in the show notes and send people over there and, and we’ll check it out. Well, a lot of thanks so much for being with me today. It’s been awesome having you on the circuit of success.

On this episode of Circuit of Success, Brett Gilliland interviews Michael Lombardi, a former NFL executive, Olympic coach, Fit Biomics Director of Partnerships, and co-founder and CEO of Rowficient. Lombardi shares his journey to success, which began with his high school rowing coach teaching him the importance of accountability and hard work. He also talks about how to think big and negotiate deals, and emphasizes the importance of understanding that everyone is different. Finally, Lombardi shares his daily routine for peak performance and how he has learned to be confident in his abilities. FULL YOUTUBE EPISODE Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, I’ve got Mike Lombardi with me, Mike. What’s going on, my man? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Just living the dream up here in Boston. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Living the dream, raining up there? Speaker Michael Lombardi: It’s like a downpour. It’s like a monastery today. Speaker Brett Gilliland: We’ve been having, it’s been like a it feels like a hundred and fifteen literally, a hundred and fifteen. All sports have been canceled, high school, kids sports, everything. Have been canceled all week. So which is kinda nice to get a little few nights off, you know, when you get four kids. It’s nice to have dinners or the family. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s, I’m sorry to hear this. That’s what went out, but, whatever it is. Yeah. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You are a Princeton grad. You are Olympic coach. You are, Fit Biomics Director of partnerships. You are the co founder and CEO of Rofficient, and you got a lot of stuff going on. What we talked about before this was your wife was on my podcast about three years ago. Speaker Michael Lombardi: She’s, she’s the best. She She, funny enough, you know, she we’ve had two kids in the last three years. And, you know, I was enjoying the little break of her kicking my ass and workouts and yesterday. It’s officially over. The run’s done. She’s back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: She’s back. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Excuse me. I’m done one day. It’s over. Yeah. It’s over for me now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, I’m sorry to hear that. And did you guys meet during the Olympics? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Is that Speaker Brett Gilliland: how you met earlier? Speaker Michael Lombardi: We actually met at Princeton. We met the first day of at Princeton in the Boathouse. We were both rowers. You know, we we just built a friendship over the first year and then started dating. And then you know, we we graduated same time. She decided to keep growing on the national theme. I started coaching at Princeton. Which is where the training center was. And then, I started helping out because we’re always on the same body of water. So, you know, I’d I’d finish up a row. I’d see them coming in I say, what do you think? Can I just start giving her some feedback on it? Help them her through London. And then for the real cycle, I was and end up being her coach for, part two. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: Wow. Speaker Michael Lombardi: That’s, yeah, we got married in between, but, yeah. That’s So Speaker Brett Gilliland: she has to listen to you when you’re on talking rowing. Right? I mean, you know, different. She has to listen to you on the water, but maybe not at home or what. Speaker Michael Lombardi: No. We’re good team dynamic. You know, I I think that that’s always been a strong suit for us is we have complimentary skill sets and our personalities go well. Like, I sit back and kinda see how I can help a person, a team, anything. And then you you coach them along, and Sarah’s very receptive to coaching. And she likes feedback. So it’s it’s a it’s a really good match. But yeah, it’s things that I kinda learned through coaching. I’ve kind of taken everywhere and kind of applied to whatever. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. So if you can, maybe give us a little bit of the backstory, Mike, on what’s made you the man you are today. I’m sure there’s people all around you and, some and backstory in there. But what what’s helped with that? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Sure. I mean, I I think I don’t know how many people say it’s where they’re from, but, you know, I’m from Philadelphia area, South Jersey, I think it’s, like, kind of, part of the DNA a little bit that, you know, you work hard. You kinda, you don’t make excuses. It’s all about accountability. And I think that, you know, my my dad was always a really good role model for that, and and a big I’d say that the first person I really remember kind of like changing my life in that sort of sense, was my high school rowing coach, Gilliland, And, you know, he pointed out to me, or he he made me believe in myself to a level that I didn’t think of before. Like, I was a talented athlete. You know, Varsity basketball. I I messed around with soccer, which is funny. It’s six Gilliland, like, rowing, I just kinda stumbled into it because somebody said, you should go try this because you’re tall. I was decent, but I didn’t really totally understand, like, you know, I as my most how I high school kids don’t like. What is full exertion? What what is going to the max? And I think he really kind of helped me unlock that. So it’s the combination of me being a Jersey guy going through a this high school in Philly. All those guys knew each other. In the basketball circuit, I kinda had like a chip on my shoulder. It’s like, I’m this outside guy, and I was not part of their crew. And that was behind I was really good at basketball. And but Roan really kinda opened, you know, welcomed me with open arms and, coach Lam, you know, he held me accountable. He’s, like, you know, I re I remember this after the two thousand four, I guess, National Championship. I was still in the JV as a sophomore. And, he’s like, Mike, on next year, like, I need you to be the team. Like, that was amazing. You won that race for that. You won the championship for those guys. It this is an eight man vote. I say it’s front of the team. So now there’s all this pressure. Okay. Cool. I gotta go do this now. You know, he’s kinda grooming me the next year and you know, I go play basketball, do that whole thing. The season’s over. I show up to practice it to race day and, race practice, and he you know, it’s like my second day back. I haven’t touched a noir in, you know, four or five months. And it just unloads a little bit of, like, to make the pull a thousand times better, not worse. And just that the course of that season was like, Hey, man, this is no bullshit. Like, people are really counting on you, and you have to hold yourself accountable. And he really he hammered home this what accountability means and holding yourself to a standard, and it doesn’t matter what anybody else is doing. Like, it’s your standard or our standard, and that’s that’s what matters. So, he completely changed it for me. And then when I got to college, I carried a lot of that stuff with me. And then through growing it instant, and then coaching at Princeton, you know, you learn a lot of lessons. And I think, I know you’ve had lots of coaches on here, but finding your voice is a hard thing, as a young coach. And what you can all you can really do is, like, you start with who who were the most recent voices or who were the influential voices in my head throughout. And that that’s where it starts. And you’re you’re more of a copy of that than yourself. So, again, another sort of inflection for me. I I took over mid year coaching, at Princeton. And I kinda came down on them a little hard on practice just because of attention to detail and one of the kids from Iowa, he said, Mike, you catch, you catch more bees with honey than vinegar. And I was like, I I think I got more upset when he said it. But, like, in just internally. But from then, it was, like, completely changed my outlook of, like, I need I that I know I wanna be as a coach now. Like, I wanna bring these kids along and these young guys and develop them, and it’s it’s about the process together. And it’s not like this is it, and this is how you do it. And that’s what I’ve kind of taken with from that point on. And when I completely changed that, then I saw way better success in the rest of that season, and then in in ensuing season. So it it, It it’s a little bit of a shift in mindset, from being so competitive as an athlete. And then shifting to, like, this is all about everybody else. Speaker Brett Gilliland: In knowing you can’t really do anything. Right? You can’t control the outcome because you’re you’re not in there. Right? You’re not in there rowing and and doing that. It’s all through other people. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. And and it’s still so fresh. Right? Like, you just did it. And it you you’re either happy with how your career ended or you’re not. Most people aren’t. You know, or I’d be still rolling for the national team or something like that. And even still, like, a lot of times, it doesn’t end up well. But, you know, Yeah. It it was it was, I would get less frustrated with the outcome more about the process. Like, you know, why why isn’t this queue working for coaching, you know, for for you making this technical change or something like that? So, you know, finding more patients and ways to connect in different ways, because everybody’s different. That that’s that’s the big thing. It’s like, because I understand something one way doesn’t mean that anybody else understands it the exact same way. So you have to reach people where they are and you might have to try fifteen different queues to get the same outcome. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So have you have you changed your definition of success over time? Right? And and I and I asked that question because I know for me, when I was twenty two years old, starting in wealth management versus now being forty five and well management. You know, my definition of success has changed quite a bit over the years. Has yours changed as you’ve progressed in your life? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. For sure. It used to be very binary. You wonder you didn’t win. I went faster than I everybody else or I didn’t. I scored more points or I didn’t. That now I look at it as those results are just the byproduct of the process. Did did we elevate the group? Like, within a team setting in terms of, like, business. So, at Woop, did we Did we elevate the brand? Did this marketing campaign? Do what it was supposed to do? Did we activate the max that we could? Did we squeeze the most potential out? Basically, did we set ourselves up for success? Did how do we execute against it? What was left on the table? And and what did we maybe over perform on? So I think it’s a more realistic and full 03:60 view of success as opposed to binary wins losses. How much money you’re making? Like, especially as, I’d say in the last two years more so, with kids, not even the first year of my, my first son’s life because it was, like, peak pandemic and I don’t, you know, whatever the world was. So I feel like I was still very stressed about I don’t wanna say the wrong things, but, at a certain point, it was just like families first and impacting the boy’s lives and Like, that that success to me, being there for them, helping them through all the things they go through, like that success. And being healthy enough, like, not going to the gym and being like, I gotta win this workout. Cool. If I do, but it’s really like, I hope I go get a good workout, spend some time with people. And come back and I can I’m healthy. Right? You know, as you get older, as I’m sure you can appreciate. Shoulder out or something. So, yeah, it it’s a completely different shift, from a mindset perspective. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, people are gonna think I’m a whoop, like, I’m getting paid by whoop or something. I’m not. I wear a whoop, have for, I guess three or four years now, and I had Kristen Holmes on the show yesterday. Be out next week. But, what what did you learn when your time there, as an early adopter in seeing something that’s grown, like, to what it is today? Speaker Michael Lombardi: So Kristen, actually was my first boss. She hired me a whoop. And we met at Princeton. We coached there, and we both had athletes in the London Olympics. So we spent some power there. So it’s kind of a long term relationship with Kristen. And she was very influential in my process too. I would say my, in my professional career. You know, she brought me in and, you know, the the thing about whoop, that that excited me back then and still does. I was doing this stuff on my own for the second olympic cycle. So I was pulling a lot of data, like, on my athletes of How many hours did you sleep? What’s your mood? What’s your urine color? SPO two monitors? You know, kind of, you know, I I call it, like, fluid periodization of training where it’s, like, We have an outcome we’re trying to achieve, but just because we have this sort of training plan written that doesn’t mean we’re gonna go and execute it if you’re like complete toast. And that’s more or less kind of like what Woot will also help you understand is like, do you need to pull back? Do you not? Can you push harder? Then you didn’t even realize it? What are the things that are actively impacting you, negatively impacting you. And I got to do that with Kristen for a year and a half. Basically, there’s like performance consultants to teams, and we got to help other teams win national championships which was more fulfilling to me than actually winning them myself. And, like, Wop is is continues to change the game. Like, you know, from that, we kinda, person went off on the thought leadership, performance science side, and I started doing strategic partnerships. So, I worked closely on on Woops major partnerships Gilliland and negotiating them, executing them, and then I got vary into leading, things in the crossroad space, functional fitness, all that kind of stuff, and then third party integrations. So whether that be Hyperized Equinox app, whatever, so we’re close with the product team. So, thing that that I always liked is I’m like a serial entrepreneur, I’d say. That’s what they told me in business school, which is, don’t don’t work for anybody. Not that you don’t play well with others, but you you thrive much more in small environments where you can really get your hands dirty. That’s what Woop was when I joined it. I think there were about thirty five people when I joined, and I got to do everything. Which is both stressful. But but, also really amazing. And now Woop is a huge company. And, you know, it’s it’s grow continues to grow and and changing lives. So, I mean, I do not remember what the original correction was, but, you know, there we are. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. There is there is a great answer. I was getting the question. And and so what it makes me think about is, you know, I think about, like, patching my homes, and I’m I’m a golfer guy. So Roy Macroy, Justin Thomas, you you see, you know, Michael Phelps, I mean, you see major, major, major sports stars wearing this stuff. And But go back because I I would apply this whoop thing we’re talking about. This bracelet that tells me everything about my life. Right? But I don’t want to be called bracelet, whatever you wanna call it. But then apply that to whether it’s wealth management, calling that mister or missus big client. Or I’m an attorney, and I wanna get that big lawsuit thing done. Whatever it may be, does how does your mind work when you’re calling on the Patrick Mahomes of the Gilliland you’re thirty five large and you’re trying to get deals like that? Not necessarily has be him. But, like, how does that go down? And how do you think big enough to think, yeah, man. What I’ve got is good enough for them. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. That’s a good point. I don’t I think maybe everybody’s different, you know, with how they deal with people that sort of scale. But I feel like having being fortunate enough to be around athletes like that a lot and having, you know, run ins with pro athletes and people I grew up with made the NBA or things like that, it it’s kinda, like, They’re just people. In reality, like, you get them on the phone. Once you kind of get over the fact, you’re like, Hey, I’m gonna talk to Pappahomes or Michael Phillips or whoever. You know, you just sit down and it’s, it’s normal. So it’s, you know, what does it look like good for them? So in terms of an ambassador or, you know, like, investor site sort of situation, that’s that’s more on a higher level. That’s probably above me. But in terms of negotiating longer term deals, with, let’s call them entities or organizations like a PGA, like across it like an Equinox, you know, You sit you know what you wanna get out of it. And which what I like to think of them as is, like, truly partnerships, not sponsorships. I think a lot of people Speaker Brett Gilliland: confused with it. Speaker Michael Lombardi: People say partnership, but they mean sponsorship, which means you’re paying for something and I’m giving you something. And I never thought of it that way, and I got a credit, you know, Antonio over to the former CMO who was my boss for a while, of, like, changing the way I think about that stuff. And, You know, it has everyone has to have skin in the game is how I think about it. And you have to find out what’s important to you, what’s important to them, and then finding something that works great that gets everybody excited. Otherwise, it’s transactional, and it’s probably gonna fail because that’s the hardest part about actual partnerships. Is getting everybody synced up and excited about what you’re doing. Now if there’s no upside to either side, why does anybody care and why you’re doing it? So whether that’s an individual, whether that’s an, like, a corporation organization. So a lot of times what people would do is they would send over sponsorship packages. What I would do is break them down and rebuild them and say, no, no, thank you. But here’s how we see it going, and here’s the timeline for success. So not just like yours at deliverable social media posts licensing of logos, blah blah blah blah. Okay. Cool. Got it. But like, what are we actually gonna do together? Was what’s innovative? How are we gonna change the game? And do something in whatever the space is that hasn’t been done that’s going to make it better for not just you know, our brand and your brand, but anybody that participates, where we wanna add something to them. So they see, you know, Woop and cross the department, like, how does that trickle down to a, you know, multimillion, individual community? Like, what’s how does that matter to them? Right? Or the PGA, how does that matter to them? How is whooping that all of a sudden show up? And you saw it in the, like, the fan experience. Right? Like, there’s there was the whoop live at the rider cop. Right? Or, you know, these these heart rate comments, right? And so it’s like, how do you start to build those things that nobody’s thinking about? Into these deals. So it has to be very forward thinking and pushing the bounds, and you have to find a partner that aligns with, you know, how far you’re trying to push the boundaries, I guess. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. You know, I loved one of the things I saw after the Super Bowl, which was counterintuitive of what people would think when Patrick Mahomes had the football, his resting heart rate was lower than when he was sitting on the sidelines and not having the football. Right? Which it tells you, he’s like, man, when I know when I get the ball, I’m in control. Right? When I don’t have the ball, I’m not in control. And I just thought that was a fascinating stat. When you look at the elite performers, When they’re at their best, man, when when they’re in control, what their their own internal body is doing compared to when they’re not in control. I thought it was fascinating. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Do you not find out about yourself here? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I do. I I I showed this to Kristen yesterday, you know, the new stress thing on the whoop is when I’m doing this or if I’m sitting with a client, like, my stress meter is lower, then when in a know, I guess you could say a more stressful situation. Right? I gotta be on. I gotta ask you these questions. I know people are gonna watch. Right? More stressful, but yet, When I look at my stress monitor, it’s it’s not. It’s my stress is lower. I feel like I’m enjoying the moment. I’m doing the things I’m put on Earth to do. And that’s what would be my equivalent of, you know, having the football or not. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. No. I I I think that’s the case. Right? Big big time players want the ball when the game’s on the line. Right? Right. Yeah. That’s when they’re I Speaker Brett Gilliland: wanna make that putt. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. You wanna make that putt. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I wanna make that putt. Maybe Kim Banging Dunes next week. If we can, I’d like to dive in, and I funny, I just got this, feedback today, like, from Lombardi. That they want more of the behind the scenes of what people are doing, which I think is great. Because when I when I talk about a a process you go through to be at peak performance, it’s like, well, I I sleep well. I exercise. I drink a lot of water. And, you know, here’s the five same steps, but I I don’t know if you like getting in the weeds on this stuff or not. But can we do that? Like, how can you help help us, help our listeners, be at peak performance, and live the things we need to do. Let’s be as detailed as we want. Let’s kinda go back and forth on that one. Sound good? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. Sure. Let’s do it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Alright. So, alarm clock goes off. We’re gonna start the day. What’s Mike Lombardi doing? What’s that process like for you? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Usually, I’m woken up by one kid or the other. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Exactly. And between two and seven. Right? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. So And, yeah, normally, normally, I’m up, probably, like, anywhere from, like, 05:30 to 06:30. What I’ll do is, I will take care of the three year old. My wife will feed the three month old. So I’ll I’ll get Mava So my my oldest son is Maverick, and I bring him downstairs. We make breakfast together. Make it make coffee. He helps him make coffee. It’s the same process every morning. He, covers his ear when I grind the beans, but then he helps me with it. He always wants to touch the beans, like, ground up beans after. So we get that. He helps me make whatever his breakfast is for that day. So it’s, you know, a bit of father son bonding kinda like warming him up to the day as he’s kind of got out of his sleep. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And give us some perspective on that. What are you what are you feeding to three year olds? I’m assuming you’re putting some lucky charms or cinnamon toast crunch in a bowl, or are you? Speaker Michael Lombardi: No. He he actually is, you know Speaker Brett Gilliland: Nothing against those cereals, Vimey’s list. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Now No. He’s he it’s tough because he doesn’t eat the traditional kid things, like, on his own, I guess. So we rotate through he’ll do, like, yogurt with, like, almond butter and jam and chia seeds in it. That’s one version. We’ll make them the kind of, healthy oats, so like oatmeal, yogurt, with, again, like, chicken, a couple other things in it to kinda give it a little bit of fitness. Occasionally he’ll want like chocolate chip pancakes Gilliland I’ll make that, and that’s fine. But most of the mornings, he’s he’s kind of on the yogurt train, and we’ll eat something like that. I will also make an oatmeal at the same time because we need to be out the door at 07:45 to get in the daycare on time. So we’ll kinda get all that. I, at some point, I have to also walk our French Goldock, so in between, I’m feeding him. So I have to figure out how to get my child there to walk the dog with me, which is harder most days than not, get all this stuff. So I’ll throw all that stuff in the car because I know I’m gonna to be hands on to get Mav in the car. We head out the door about 07:45 07:50. I drop him at daycare, then I go directly to the gym. I work out at a crossfit, box. I do my own stuff. I have a pretty good internal clock of or, you know, what I should be doing on any given day. Based off of kinda like, how did I sleep? Am I kinda jacked it up? This is something I’m excited about doing. I have a couple of people that kinda just follow whatever I do, which is fun. I’ve got a little training group that is kinda waiting for me when I roll in around 08:30. We hit it hard for, you know, about sixty to seventy five minutes, sent out the door back to, help out at home and then and really start hammering in the workday. So I don’t usually eat breakfast until after like, a real breakfast or my first real meal until after, the training’s done. So we’re at 10:30 now. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So then you eat at 10:30 ish, you know, probably help you meal there. And then how many times a day you eat? Speaker Michael Lombardi: You know, it’s what I’ve realized, and this is actually something from Kristen too. I I used to play around with this at Woot, where I didn’t make my food as much there was, like, a lot of, like, healthy fast casual around that’s, like, sweetgreen Gilliland probably, like, Mediterranean bowl type thing. Like, it’s really easy to get healthy enough food, but you weren’t, like, I don’t count my macros or anything. It just kind of aware of what I’m eating, and I think what I was doing was I was actually having too much protein in the middle of the day, and it was making me feel very lethargic. So what I did was I probably halved that protein throughout the middle day. So, but breakfast can still be high protein, you know, shakes or whatever supplements you wanna add in. But, you know, when I eat too heavy of a protein portion in the middle of the sort of, like, lunch time of day, it was like tanking me. So I do more, like, heavy veggie, you know, it could be a salad with with enough of, at least a serving of protein. And it’s it’s just giving me way more energy for the back half of the day. I usually have a nice coffee at some point. Usually, like, one or two. And I I don’t know. I guess you say how many meals do I eat? I’m just kind of like always eating. Again, I’m like a big guy, six seven to her thirty pounds. So it’s just kind of like consistent. So it’s like I just finished eating, and I’m like, alright. Well, I want another apple now, and I’m just gonna kinda keep doing that, but I don’t we don’t keep, like, crap food in the house, so to speak. So it’s like — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Michael Lombardi: always will have to be like a fruit or a yogurt as like a snack or I mean, perfect bars are basically candy bars, but like healthy. So I might have like a half a perfect bar. It’s like a bite of something and always hydrating. I know people said that, but, you know, just gotta It’s important, man. The days I feel best, it’s hard. It’s it’s really hard. If you don’t start early, It’s it’s basically impossible. I don’t know how much Chrising got into this. We used to talk about this all the time, but like, there was a period of time where I tried to drink my body weight in ounces of water for like a week. Is basically impossible, but, it, like, my, my HRV skyrocketed. I didn’t change one other thing besides water intake. So it was wild. So back to the day, now we’re at, I don’t know, work works all throughout this. Helping out with the with the three month old. Usually, you have to leave around 04:30 to go get an ad from daycare again. Go get him. Come on. We make dinner together. He has whatever he’s gonna have, and I make dinner for the whole family, every night. And then the the masquerade of bedtime begins around 06:45, bath time, bedtime. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It gets easier, brother. I’m telling you. It gets easier. Speaker Michael Lombardi: An hour and fifteen, an hour and a half. Yeah, it’s fine. And then eventually he’s down. Then it probably have about ninety minutes. Let’s say 08:00. It can actually, like, sit down or maybe I have to go clean up and get everything ready for tomorrow. So I gotta packaged lunch, you know, get the house in order and then, you know, it’s almost time for the dream feed for the the young baby. And, so I’ve got about ninety minutes to either, like, throw a Philly game on or hammer out some more work if I if I didn’t get done yet or, you know, try and get ahead on something. But usually I get myself, you know, a solid, like, thirty, forty minutes to kind of, like, unwind and, like, let my brain decompress from all that high activities. We’re also body training. And, yeah, I try to get to bed around 09:30 every night, you know, do the Speaker Brett Gilliland: Nine thirties or Speaker Michael Lombardi: something. 10:30, Speaker Brett Gilliland: 10:30. Okay. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Try it. Nice. Try it. Yeah. Try it. I Speaker Brett Gilliland: like it. That’s good, man. Now you take do you take vitamins? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Rinse and repeat? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Your vitamin gap? Speaker Michael Lombardi: I take, oh, I do like collagen. I don’t do, well, I guess I do like vitamin c, but I don’t I don’t think of a multivitamin, but I definitely should as I’m getting older. But, yeah, I do, like, way protein, collagen, creatine. That’s like a just to go to every day. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Got it. Okay. How do you, how do you challenge your own thinking? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Oh, that’s good. What I like to do is I put my thoughts down and then I have to take a day away and then rethink the whole thing. And, like, with fresh eyes, or I like to bounce ideas off people. I don’t know if it comes through on this podcast, but I’m very stream of consciousness in terms of my the way my thoughts go. So a lot of times my brain is firing faster than I can even get the words out. Or put them down. So what will happen is, I I’m just going like a million miles a minute as this an idea is populating. And I, like, I need to slow it all down to try and get it across to somebody else. So that’s that’s part of it is one. How do I articulate something to another person, even get their feedback? But, like, Once I do have that, it’s getting feedback from people that I trust that I know have different perspectives than me. But know enough about whatever I’m talking about. To effectively challenge it or validate what I’m thinking. So, I’m not going for somebody that’s just gonna tell me yes. Fact, I don’t want somebody to tell me yes. Like, you know, I wouldn’t keep you kind of around if you were just the yes person and that was the relationship. I think that’s why Sarah and I are so successful as a partnership because we do challenge each other in in that sense of different styles of thinking, not one better than the other. That’s just situational. Like, Oh, that was that’s a great thing. I didn’t think of that part. And being really open, like, not having an ego of like, well, this is what I thought and it can’t be improved upon. If that was the case, then I’d be, you know, I don’t know, I’d own Twitter or something. But, you know, you know, I’d have enough money to at least. But Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Right. — Speaker Michael Lombardi: that’s, that’s not that’s not the case. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Are you a journaler? Like, goal planning, journaling? Kind of time away. Like, I always talk about time in the business and time on the business. I like to go about once a quarter. We’ll take our team, go off-site, We plan. We strategize. We think. Do you like that stuff? Do you do that stuff? What’s that? What’s that been like in your life? Speaker Michael Lombardi: So at at Woop, I was a big notebook guy. And that was more for like biz stuff stuff or like keeping notes on that kind of stuff. Once I kinda got into building campaigns or partnerships, I could keep that on the computer. I would say, like, one of my superpowers is keep I can keep a, like, a ton of information in my head, like, fully organized. Not helpful for the people, but for like my tasks. Like, I can, you know, check them off, without putting them down. I wouldn’t suggest that for most people. But I usually do what I will do is, I do set, like, these are mandatory for the day. I always have my, like, long term goals up here and somewhere on, like, probably in my notes on my computer and my phone. But I will have, like, these three things mandatory today, get them done as soon as, like, before noon. They have to be done before noon, and then whatever else, you’re you’re gonna do more. But, like, definitely accomplish these things. Because I think where I think people get into trouble and myself included, You can never let yourself have any smaller winds. It starts to just mount and you it’s it’s easy to start. Viewing things as a failure or you’re not making progress because it’s not as tangible. So, like, it’s very important to have these sort of tangible things, whether it’s like, That’s a great gym session. I, you know, I clean and jerked something or, you know, like, I I accomplished exactly what I wanted. Okay. That’s good. Because there’s gonna be days that it’s not that. Or it’s like, I handled this, this, and this, for my life. Like, you know, we enrolled in preschool, and he’s got his lunchbox. Like, They don’t all have to be business related things. They they are life related to keep me grounded in everything that’s going on. And I I think that that keeps me level and in all of these things. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I I call it the roommate. I read that in a book once, and we all have this roommate that lives with us. It’s that that person, right, sits on our shoulder and may tell us things. It’s It’s our in internal thoughts, our internal conversations that we have. Are you are you good at those? Are those mostly positive? If they are negative at all, do you can you flick that guy off your shoulder? Like, that look like for you? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. The anything negative lasts very little. I I I will, I’d say I’m an irrationally competent person sometimes. And I think that anybody that’s great and anything is I don’t think that there’s, like, a, a non competent pro athlete or top performer anywhere. It doesn’t matter what the business is. You have to be so confident in yourself, even if it doesn’t, like, come you don’t want to come off as arrogance. But internally, you have to be like so confident in your abilities, that you are the best and and you are capable of anything. That those negative thoughts will come, but you’re like, yeah, okay. But I’m better than that. And I can push through this or Yep. You can understand why that thought comes, and you can also talk yourself out of, okay. Yeah. This is a thought. This is just a thought. That’s not the Gilliland I think that that’s something I’ve gotten very good at over time is this is a this is a fleeting thought, and feel it for a second and then move on because this is not who you are, and this is certainly not defining you. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think for me, it’s that that, you see, consuming your thought that it, I’ve learned to talk to it, you know, talk to that thought. Like, almost talk trash back to it. You know, Speaker Michael Lombardi: you should deal with things about it a lot. You know? Speaker Brett Gilliland: And it’s like, man, I okay. I got it. Like, I know sun I don’t like small airplanes, and I know I’m gonna be on a smaller airplane Sunday. I’m gonna have some serious anxiety. If I kinda had it through off and on this whole week, but it’s I’ll tell it. Like, look, I know what you’re doing. You’re trying to make me go there and think all these irrational thoughts, this ain’t happening. Right? And it just kinda stop it, man, and go somewhere else. And that’s that’s been really helpful for me over the years. And and continuing on thinking what is there anything right now that’s maybe in the infancy stage for you, but it’s consuming your thinking right now, you know, as a leader, as a as a father, as a husband. I mean, all the things you’re doing. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Oh, yeah. Existential dread, man. That that’s the thing that actually, and I’m not sure you can appreciate this. Like, what if something happens to me? And and I feel like you don’t ever really think about that until you have kids. Maybe some people do think about it earlier, but the reality of something could happen to me and somebody has to take care. There has to be a way to take care of these kids. So I think that that’s the thing that, freaks me out the most. And nothing nothing else wakes me up in the night. Other than that. Of like, what if something happens and have I done everything I can to make sure that my family’s okay. That’s that’s the overarching thing, which is like you have very little control over. And, you know, I’ve worked a lot on not not letting it have too much control because it is, you know, do what you can do, and then you gotta just live. Things that are right now, we’re going through a lot of changes. Like, you know, we we just moved, a month ago, almost two months ago. We have a new baby. So only last three months. New baby, new new house. My son switching schools. She’s potty training. You know, it’s like, man, can we do more? What else can we go on here? And it’s hard. And it’s, you know, what, our our three year old is, like, having a little bit of a tough time. And that that’s really hard on us too, because — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Michael Lombardi: you know, what happens at daycare is not what it’s like at home. And it’s, you know, it’s changes. It if it’s hard, I just literally had this conversation with Sarah downstairs. You know, if you and I are feeling it, like this level of sort of like anxiety and stress. How do you think a three year old who has no ability to regulate his emotions or articulate any of this stuff is doing. Like, he’s he’s doing better than both of us, I think. So, like, you know, That’s that’s the stuff right now. Yeah. It’s like that’s that’s the stuff that I takes up my head space. It’s like, Working is fun and their their opportunities. Whereas, I can’t even say at whoop. Like, I, when I had no kids, we, you know, young professional, like everything’s great. You can go all in. And — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Michael Lombardi: like, you don’t have to care about anything else. And I I believe that, like, having kids has helped me put things in, in place. As you kinda said, he’s like, you’ve got work time and out of work time and and those sort of thoughts. And, it’s really been great to kind of have that shift of, like, there’s work and there’s life. And works necessary for life, and hopefully there’s some cool things in there. But ultimately, like, it’s the relationship just the people and how you treat them and and the joy you bring to other people too. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s it’s funny. So I I don’t know that I’m that much older than you, but, probably am quite a bit older than you, but in in talking about kids and our lives, and mine are seventeen fifteen. In my fifteen year old man, I dropped him off at school today for the last time that I’ll ever drive him to school. I’m like, Speaker Michael Lombardi: really? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So so I used my second one. So my oldest one drives, and he’s seventeen, almost eighteen, almost sixteen, and then, thirteen, and eight. And you know, one of the things I did when I my kids were at your kids’ age, and I don’t know why, but I I thought about, like, the things you thought about too, like, what if I’m not here? You know, they’re gonna get anything that I ever taught them, all that stuff. And so I would find myself sometimes literally just holding the phone while I’m driving. I wouldn’t look at the phone. Right? Gotta be safe. But do a video and talk to the boys, and then send that to, like, a email thing that we have. Like, you know, they didn’t have emails and phones and stuff back in. Right? And so I would make sure there’s a place where they could go watch those videos of what you stand for, man, because we don’t know. I could get hit by the proverbial truck tomorrow. Right? And it’s like — Yeah. — I want them to understand about who they surround themselves with matters. And now, you know, at seventeen and fifteen, they’re probably, Speaker Michael Lombardi: god. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Here he goes again. Right? This But when they’re three in one or three in three months, I mean, they don’t know that stuff. They wanna hear from dad. So just a thought for people that are listening or for yourself, for food for thought. So, this has been awesome, man. Winning is a choice. You agree with that? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Winning is a choice? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Is Speaker Michael Lombardi: it? Who said that? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I don’t know. I’m I’m asking. I’m asking if you think it’s a choice or I because I believe there’s a lot of things that are choices, but is winning a choice. And, anxious see where you go with that. Speaker Michael Lombardi: I don’t think I don’t think that winning is a choice. I think that, what you’re willing to do to win as a choice. Yeah. Let’s say you’re running hill sprints. Like, everybody that’s running it hypothetically wants to win. But how deep are you willing to go? How much are you willing to make your muscles burn? An egg to win. And if it’s not more than everybody else, then you’re probably not gonna win. So I don’t think winning in a winnings the byproduct of the choices that you were willing to make to win. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I I agree with you. I’m glad you said it that way because that that’s what I think where, you know, take Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, we’ll just pick on those guys. You know, there’s six, seven, eight quarterbacks that come in probably all of them, hopefully, think they can. But realistically, there may be six, seven, eight quarterbacks this year that think they can win the Super Bowl. Right? They all think they’re gonna go there. It’s not a choice, man. There’s so much stuff that goes into it, and it’s preparation. It’s how much more are you gonna work on your body, your sleep, all the stuff that we been talking about all day. So I’m glad to hear you say that because I agree. I think if we’re out there running the hill sprints, everybody wants to win, but it’s how much effort you gonna put into it? So we wanna focus on the effort. Right? Part of the circuits of success for the effort. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. And what did you do leading into, you know, those hail sprints were coming. Did you train for that? Like, or did you just, like, hey, I’m good enough to shop? Because you’re you’re probably not. It, like, it works to a point, but if you really wanna take things to the max, you have to, you know, go above and beyond. It’s everything that people don’t see. And just for the quarterback thing, J one Hertz is the best. And the Eagles will accept Super Bowl. So I Speaker Brett Gilliland: love it. That’s great. But he had a hell of a year last year. He’s fun to watch. Speaker Michael Lombardi: I like that. Love that guy. Well, Speaker Brett Gilliland: Working our listeners find more of Mike Lombardi? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Well, if you want lots of, dad and training content, you can follow me on Instagram at Lombardi Michael. We, you know, Rofish and exists still on the on Instagram. If you’re looking for rowing tips, or any of that sort of training stuff so we’ve we actually worked with Harvard’s Women Rolling Team for, like, last six years. Kinda like strength and conditioning consultant training stuff. So, yeah, that was fun. But, yeah, no. You you you find this around? Sarah Sarah Speaker Brett Gilliland: I need to check that Speaker Michael Lombardi: one out. Yes. She is. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And Sarah Speaker Michael Lombardi: is a good follow, at Sarah Henderson. Where you’ll ask you. We’ll get more content from her than you will from me. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I need to get on that rowing when you get some pointers. I mean, I got a rower about four or five months ago, the Peloton rower, and it’s it’s a hard ass workout. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. It’s it’s not easy. That’s that’s the thing. It, people make it look easy. It’s not easy. And No. Yeah. So, hey, you can you can always hit me up after this enrolling. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Alright, man. I will do that. Well, Mike, it’s been awesome having you, man. Thanks for joining me on the Circive Success podcast.

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews two-time Major League Baseball All-Star Trevor Rosenthal. Rosenthal shares his journey to success, emphasizing the importance of hard work and trusting the process. He also talks about the differences between being a starting pitcher and a relief pitcher, his routine and preparation for game day, and his experience playing with Yadi Molina. Rosenthal shares his plans for the next five years, which include completing his Tommy John rehab process and investing in relationships with his family. Full YouTube Video: Unlocking Success with MLB All-Star Trevor Rosenthal   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, got a cardinal player with me, man. I’m fired up. Trevor Rosenthal, what’s going on, my man? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: That’s right. Baseball has in full swing. What’s up, Brad? Thanks for inviting me to come on the show. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Absolutely. Like the old hat lunch there. You got that on your shirt. You got a buddy there. I got a a new, relationship from back in the day. So I get some hats. You get some hats stuff getting made. They’re good stuff. We’re not being paid to say that, we’ll give him a little plug here. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Definitely. It’s a good plug. St. Louis voice through and through. Got a support local Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right, man. That’s right. So, well, you are Trevor Rosenthal. You are a, two thousand and fifteen major league baseball All star. Single saves leader for the cardinals, and what was that? Two thousand fifteen as well for forty eight. Beat my boy Is he there. Didn’t you? You had to beat Is he? What didn’t isn’t that who you beat? Was Jason? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. Scratch him out by just a couple and Lee Smith as well. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Nice. Nice. Two big names for the cardinals. And then, see, yeah, so single saves leader that year. And then two two thousand fifteen, you were the third youngest pitcher with forty plus saves and back to back season man. That was, it was awesome. So fun to watch you. But before we dive into it, being from Lee’s Summit, Missouri, I gotta ask you, were you a Cardinal fan or a Royal fan? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I’d say a little bit of both. There was some great players on both teams, certainly, pool halls or Saint Louis and pretty cool story, actually getting able being able to watch, Carlos Beltran, and also is that growing up in the St. Louis area. Beltran was a teammate, and that two thousand fifteen year, Grinky was an all star game teammate of mine. So pretty surreal experience to have. Now at thirty three years old, I have the young bucks coming up to meet telling me these same stories, and I realized, man, maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned that to Carlos Beltran. I think I probably didn’t Speaker Brett Gilliland: make it Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: feel too young. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. I used to grow up watching you play. So, if you can’t tell us what’s major the man you are today, man. You don’t just, you know, grow up and then become a major league baseball player. There’s a lot there and love to dive into that and start the conversation there. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Oh, yeah. That’s a big question. Definitely has you know, could dive in deep, but I think, you know, it’s fortunate to have great parents, first and foremost, born in Carney, Nebraska, my parents own my dad owned, a restaurant with a business partner in Carney, and watched him work hard and operate that, as a young, young child from age one to Gilliland then at six years old, My dad was about actually my age now, and he decided to go back to law school. Wow. So moved into the Kansas City, Lisa, Missouri area. Back, became an attorney. And, I think a combination of those two things, one being exposed to the farm life, the constant work. I think that that requires then seeing my dad put himself, through a a rigorous course and course work with with education and you should change career paths. Really just rubbed off on me. I think more than anything, grew up as a a normal kid playing sports and eventually had the opportunity to become a professional baseball player and being able to apply that discipline and work ethic that I was that was demonstrated for me as a kid. I applied that to the opportunity I had in the game. Was very he’s very good and paid huge dividends. And he’s, and, yeah, thank you for taking that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I think it’s I’m always fascinated, man, by guys. Like, you didn’t grow up I mean, probably pitched and all that stuff right growing up, but you I know you went to play junior college baseball, I believe. Right? And you were a short stop. And and so Like, how does that conversation go? It’s like, hey, you’re no longer gonna be a short stop, man. You’re moving to a picture. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Conversation is a tough one. As most pitchers will tell you. No one wants to be just a pitcher only. That’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s fun. He got up to the play. It’s fun to hit home runs. I mean, stick a long ball. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Exactly. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: But, yeah, at at a certain point, you can’t hit nine five or you’re swinging at the breaking ball and the dirt over and over again, you might have to take advantage of the powerful right arm at arm. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s awesome. Because I know it wasn’t Jason Mod. Wouldn’t he, catch her, I think, first? I mean, there’s tons of stories, Ankyo, all these guys. It’s, just amazing to me from to get to the level that you guys get to and it wasn’t your main position. It just shows you how athletic you are, and and and again, a mindset, which we’ll talk about. So, So let’s let’s talk about that. So when you when you’re pitching, what’s what’s Trevor Rosenthal mindset on the mound? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. That’s a that’s a it’s a it’s evolving. I think at the end of the day, to sum it all up when you get on the mound, when you get into competition, you have to have some pretty clear and concise thoughts and it starts with confidence. Without confidence, it’s gonna be hard to compete or win at any level, especially against competition is the best in the world at what they’re doing. Yep. My my confidence a lot of times comes from preparation, that has put me in that situation. And then also a mindset of I’m not in an alone. We’re lucky fortunate enough to be in a team sport and have bunch of guys behind me that are are supporting me and really trying to give their best just as I am to have success on that field. So those two things being confident in myself and being confident in the team that that’s behind me. Are are really the clear thoughts. And then from there, you know, we could go down the list that that goes into the preparation of of scouting, and workout, workouts, sleep, diet, all the contributors that go into that preparation. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And and I think what I like now, it seems more than ever. I don’t know if it’s social media or what it is, but you’re finding more and more people focusing on sleep and hydration and, you know, all the things that are so important. Again, whether that’s business or baseball, it is a focus of yours and I’m one of the things I wrote down today is the off season kinda prep versus the in season prep. What was that like? Did that differ for you much? Was it the same? What was that like? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It is a lot different. I think it goes to different stages almost where in the off season, there’s there’s a buildup. We’re trying to really just prepare our body as much as possible. We use that free training phase to continue to build the body, but then also adjusting the mind. To the the season ahead, the challenges that are gonna be ahead. And then throughout the season, it’s a game of adjustments. It’s a game of recognizing the competition, getting their feedback from your results and constantly, adjusting to achieve the goals that you have and ultimate goals winning. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m into that. Taking some notes here, writing something down I thought of. So, so talk about that. So let’s say it’s game day today, you know, the difference between being a starting pitcher and a, relief pitchers, you know, you assume, hopefully, especially the roles you were playing, you’re probably gonna pitch If not every day, you know, you’ll get a day off here and there, but you gotta go with the mindset every day that you’re going in. Right? So so what was that like? You know, it’s It’s 01:10 on a on a Thursday afternoon here, and the game’s not till 07:10. Let’s call it. What’s going on right now for Trevor? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: 01:10. Right now, we have completed the night before. Gilliland end the night with a little recap of how my day went performance wise, maybe make some notes on things that I would like to change or repeat for the following day. So I had a good night’s sleep. Breakfast, a good meal. Are you losing me? Do we cut out? Am I good? Speaker Brett Gilliland: No. I got you. I got you. Sorry. There’s a little delay, but we’re good. I got you. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Okay. Okay. Okay. So right right about 01:00, we’re headed down to the ballpark. Usually, I’m using that time to be on the phone. During the drive with, family friends can take an advantage of that time to catch up and build or maintain some relationships. And then Once we get to the park, it’s, more or less, kind of phone and lock their phone off, and we start the build up for the game. And both of things with, physical physically the body and the mind. I think that’s the difference, the biggest difference of being a professional athlete versus a business leader or, a normal workforce is you have to prepare two things. We’re preparing the body and the mind. And a lot of the time, the how the body feels can affect how the mind feels, and that’s an interesting game that you learn to play. But I’ve learned over the years, the mind is is very powerful. And so a lot of, what what I’ve done and what I’ve learned is to do everything possible to keep that positive mindset and build that momentum and and from the the time I walk in the door and until 07:00 when the first pitch comes is trying to create as much positive momentum as possible and and bring that into that game, mate. Lucky enough to have great teammates that that help with that as well. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, I think it’s too. What’s different is if I come in and have a bad day at work today, they’re not gonna write an article about it. It’s not gonna be all over social media. Right? But you give up the old the old two strike, you know, two out home run, man. Everybody’s gonna be talking about it. And the hell, you know, how’s he do the, you know, all the stuff. Right? And and how much of that do you control that in your mind? Do you think much about it? How do you get through that? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. It’s the good and the bad about playing every single day or being a relief pitcher and having to be available every day is it’s it’s great because you can turn the page and you get a new opportunity, but it’s also bad because, things can start to snowball pretty quickly and not able turn the page and and you’re carrying day to day out with you what happened the night before or what that reporter says. It can really, really get in the way of, it’ll be roadblocks and what you’re trying to accomplish. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah. I, one time mention his name again here. Iseringhausen, he said, you gotta have a short term memory. You know, you gotta be able to turn the page quickly. And so you can’t think about that thing, not not to keep bringing up home runs, but you can’t think about the home run last night because that was last night. Now it’s Thursday night. I gotta go dominate and and become this guy in the mountain. You agree with that? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I agree. And and that’s where the routine, where the preparation is so important. And if you’re able to create enough of that momentum or enough of the routine or enough x y and z habits that that you’re focused on completing a lot of times we hear people talk about falling in love with the process, which I think goes right to right down to what you’re doing to prepare and all those steps that you’re taking. And the the goal is is I wanna clear mine and I want a body that’s ready to perform and if we back up to that 01:00 arrival time, take all the we have we have our time filled all the way up until game time. There’s not you’re not leaving a lot of room for those negative thoughts. And think that’s really important, for anybody and and certainly negative emotions, we’re gonna weigh you down and and that’s you get that feeling of being stuck or you can’t have the, you know, you’re going backwards. You never really been able to stay in one spot. You’re either going forward or you’re going back and when you understand that or you operate in a place where you have that belief. Much more beneficial to keep rolling forward than keep going back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So do you what was the goal planning process like for you? Did you I mean, like, take two thousand fifteen, for example, All Star forty eight saves for the year, single season record for the cardinals. Like, do you sit down the season and say, I wanna have x amount of saves or is it more of, again, you talk about passion for the process. Is it more of that and then the results just happen? What was it like? Yeah. That’s Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I’ve done both. I’ve I was fortunate, early on in my career for whatever reason, was into journaling, was into goal setting and and just taking actually recording them and writing them down and having specific goals and and reverse engineering on how to get there. And I’ve done, both ways where I’ve written down statistics that I would like to achieve. But I found more than anything, the the goals that helped me to get where I wanted to go were were based on more things that I could control. A big big one. I would say number one most of the time was just being a great teammate. And for whatever reason, it it it translated into taking pressure off of myself or when I showed up every day was I was focused more on the energy and and the things that I could do to help help the guy sitting next to me or the things that I could learn from a veteran player that he was sharing with me. And that was a big part of building my confidence and building I guess the opportunities to be successful. And then from there, it was, you know, talking about work ethic and I understood that if I really showed up every single day and didn’t focus on the the feedback or, I guess, I guess, more results that I was getting positive or negative, I showed up every day and just truly worked diligently. Worked hard at what I was doing. I could trust whether or not I was successful or not that I I really just gave all that to have it. And those were the two things that I decided I willing to go to the gray volume. I can look myself in the mirror at the end of my career, at the end of the season, and understand that I at least did those two Gilliland I’m gonna be able to sleep well tonight. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s a big deal. Put in the effort, man. The effort matters. What when you think about you know, those habits and Gilliland let’s even talk more now today. What what are the things that are no mis items? You know, if I followed you around with the camera, What am I gonna see day in and day out that Trevor Rosenthal doing then and now? So I’m sure some of them are still the same. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. Wow. That’s that’s So many things. I’m I’m big on big on nutrition. I think nutrition’s important. I don’t know if that I’m not supposed to say not Gilliland any type of order, just what’s coming to my mind. Yeah. You’re gonna you’re gonna see a guy who who takes care of himself. He eating Gilliland sleeping well, prioritizing. My physical health is gonna be something that you’re you’re gonna see. I think going back to being a good teammate is being respectful, treating people the way I would wanna be treated and bringing positivity into every situation no matter what it is. And then from there, I think continuing to learn, being a student of life, of the game of all things that I’m involved in, and especially profession or careers. I I’ve always wanted to keep a mindset that I’m new and I’m I’m just learning and I have a lot to learn and a long ways to go. So I I’ve been active in continuing to read books or seek out information from individuals. So and and and count down the road before me. Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I love that. So who would you say some of your mentors are now? And, you know, in the past, you know, even before professional sports were their mentors during right now, you know, in the future, like who do you see there? Do you go to for advice now? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: You have been so lucky to have so many great mentors growing up. There were multiple former professional players, athletes that had read some of that Gilliland into, in to my everyday training that I was able to build upon. And then, man, being in a in an organization like the St. Louis cardinals, there’s you’re just surrounded by just high character individuals, but then you’re talking about Jason Iseringhouse, and then these guys who are wearing the red jackets, they do such a good job of keeping them in the organization, keeping them involved. And those guys just wanna give back, and they they wanna be a source. And so I’m so thankful for all of them. All of those guys pointing in to me. But one guy that that has really stood out more than anybody was, Matt Holiday. Matt was a teammate of mine for majority of my time in Saint Louis, him and his wife Leslie are amazing people. And he, for whatever reason, so took went out of his way to take me under his wing and kinda put his arm around me from day one and make sure that very minimum, he was shining a light on the path for me to to follow. And it was up to me to follow or listen, but, Yeah. Matt’s had an incredible career and a tremendous impact on and off the field. So I’m fortunate that that there were guys like that, Matt, and The cardinal’s organization, leather jacket wears, even all the way down to, managers that I had in the minor leagues that we’ll never really know their names. Those guys really had a strong impact on myself and a lot of my teammates. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Let’s let’s dig more into that holiday relationship. I mean, we talk about this at work. It’s values alignment. Right? I mean, I think you guys probably my experience is, you know, you’ve always got a smile on your face. He’s he’s an uplifting guy. I’ve been around him a couple times, and he seems you know, to be very positive and thinking big and doing the things you wanna do. You get your Christian values together. Right? So, I mean, I think the values alignment is what sticky. Would you agree with that? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I would. And it’s interesting because we come from very different backgrounds, but but we do. We did bond over a lot of Gilliland I think, aside from our faith and and just walking a little bit different way than, you might expect from a a superstar or top prospects. Walking with a little bit more humbleness and a desire to serve more than you receive, think we’ve really bonded over over work ethic and Gilliland. And I think he saw that in me at an early age, and I certainly saw that in his Ronnie forearms. When I first met him. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Could break you in half. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Oh, he would. He it was impressive. I was lucky. We we actually were able to train together in the off seasons in Saint Louis for multiple years. And, man, what a what a great athlete and specimen of a month or he he is. Now I I I had a hard time keeping up, but I’m trying to find other ways that I could maybe edge out. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right. How cool is that for his son, man, to be the number one pick in the Major Lake baseball draft? That’s just phenomenal. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. I was thinking about this the other day. We like I said, Matt’s been a huge influence, and we actually have the same, baseball agent. And we were talking about Matt’s involvement in my career and other player’s career and how how much he’s helped out and and really what I was thinking is is you know, Matt, if you listen at the middle, you just listen to Matt and does what he tells you, you’re gonna be alright. You’re gonna Whatever whatever you whatever happens, you’re gonna be okay. He’s not gonna run you astray. I think a testament to that is nothing better than your own son. As a dad, you have a tremendous amount of influence over your children and to see the success that Jackson is having now. I think is a testament to how great of a a leader, Matt, how it is. So you Speaker Brett Gilliland: think we’ll see him in the big leagues soon. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I yeah. I mean, it’s a it’s a tough industry, but he seems to be taking it in stride at a young age. Seems like it’s just a matter of time at this point. But it’d be exciting. I’ll I’ll I’ll be there. I told Matt, I’m like, let me know when you when you get that call because I wanna be there. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Jump on the first plane and be there. So let’s talk about some of your your best moments in baseball, man. That’s, you know, obviously you’ve been around some big games. You were a stud in the, two thousand thirteen world series as well. So, like, is that the pinnacle? Like, what what was some of the best moments you’ve had in your baseball career? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s so hard. They’re also amazing. Another question that I’ve I’ve played nothing out of eight or nine times now eight or nine different organizations, you know, a common question is, you know, what’s your favorite stage, stadium, what’s your favorite team, your favorite moment, And when you’re in the major leagues, I mean, that’s just such a dream come true. They’re all amazing. Your debut to getting the first call, making a world series appearance, an all star game appearance, really every day that you get to show up and walk in that locker room is is pretty thrilling and hard not to appreciate. So it’s it’s very difficult for me to pick one out. And, I think as I just continue to reflect and and also, you know, just continuing to work and move forward and and seeing what future opportunities look like for me and my career. Just appreciative of of of of just that of the opportunities and that’s such a such a thrilling highlight even to be having a conversation like this today and reflecting on so many amazing moments, that I’ve been able to be a part of. I mean, nothing that I would have dreamed of as a as a kid that I would have called Carlos Beltran, Matt Holiday, Godier, Melina, my goodness, being able to throw a baseball to him over and over again. What a Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s crazy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: what a thrilling time, for me and me to have in this life’s life. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. You know, it’s funny. I just was having this I just gotta have a business lunch and somehow, the person knew. So Yadi was my neighbor for years. And, you know, I told a funny story. I said, you know, most of the time you go and your kids, they go to birthday parties and they walk out. They got like bubbles and like, you know, gum and some candy and like a nice little bag. You know, my wife always makes nice bags for kids when they leave when they were kids were Gilliland it was different at Yati’s house. Man, you’d leave the birthday parties and you’d walk out with like an autograph baseball. From Yadi or Molina. Or, you know, he was, and during the season, you know, summer league baseball for the kids. It was tough, but off season, he’d during off days, he’d be at the game and all of a sudden, there’d be two hundred people watching our little seven year olds play baseball together. But, you know, you watch a guy like that, man. And and it’s incredible to see even when he was out with little kids on what he was teaching them. And and so my I tell those stories because he’s an amazing guy, but what was it like when you’re pitching to yada or Molina? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. There’s Elite competitor, obviously, the talent is on another level, but, the work ethic was second to none. Better than he was a second tonight. There was a very eye opening moment. It actually happened in my major league debut. Have given up a hit, a walk, maybe runners on first and second, and, you know, my heart’s racing, excited. You know, like nothing I had ever experienced in my life, making your major league debut. I remember stepping off the mound, getting the ball back, and actually Rafael for Paul was our short stop. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yep. I remember very vividly him just encouraging me and and just, you know, typical attaboy. Like, let’s get baseball type of lingo. But with this deeper sense of of passion and and just coming from a place where it’s like, okay, this is like yachty, yachty, you know, Rafael Frecall, a story baseball player, a veteran, he’s achieved. All these amazing milestones, he’s towards the end of his career, and I’m just beginning mine. And I have the support of this guy. I mean, It it was just what it just filled me with a with a flame. And yachty was the same way. And I think from that day forward, under standing that as hard as I was working on the mound as much preparation and sacrifice and discipline I had put in to give myself that opportunity or to take advantage of that opportunity, Yadi was behind the plate doing the same thing, if not more. Wanting the same amount or if not more success for me is. Yeah. Man, what a what a teammate to have? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Did you ever shake him off? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s so funny. He’s, so short answer. Yes. Long answer. I don’t know if this is the doc down. I’m sure it has, but yachty had this on on a couple occasions, depending on how the game was going. Usually, it was a lot sided and things weren’t going well. But he if you if I’ve seen him do this multiple times once to me, but if you shook him off too many times, he would give you he wouldn’t give you a pitch sign. He would just give you like a just throw it. Just whatever you want. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, wow. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: And, I mean, amazing, right? You’re talking about some pitchers throwing a hundred miles an hour and Wayne wright type curveballs and man, the guy had no fear. He was he was he was he’s a special special individual. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So it’s probably his way though as well to say, alright. Dude, you think you got it all figured out? Just come on. Bring it. I’m not gonna make I’m not gonna make the call. You you you think you got it figured out. Bring it. Right? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. And, yeah, there was times where I shook him off and, you know, he came out to the man to talk to me and we would settle on, on something, but It’s interesting that that question comes up so often because it gives an illusion that yachty has a stubbornness or, know it all kind of mentality. And and it’s really nothing of that of that nature. I think it stems more from competitiveness. And and if he understands that as a pitcher, you have a reason for what you’re doing or if he sees the work that you’re doing and you develop relationship. There’s no, like, presumed, I guess, I guess, outside animosity that actually taking place. He’s, truly just just wanting what’s best in that situation to help somebody. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I thought it was just so cool a couple years ago that I think it was a young guy on Houston, I think it was. Right? He tried to pick him off at first, and the guy got back there. Did you see that? And then he’s like, you know, he takes his helmet. I was like, here. Go. Go to second. Try me, man. I know I’m late in my career and the guy on a change up throws it down to second, guns him. And he just walks off. I’m like, dude’s a badass. It’s pretty amazing. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: And there’s so many of those moments, I mean, I mean, that’s what’s amazing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s awesome. So you talked about, you played, I think you said seven or eight teams. What, I mean, what was it like playing for the cardinals? I mean, having the birds on the bat compared to the these other teams. Not to knock any other teams, of course, but what was it like playing with the cardinals? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. I think I mean, it’s different. I definitely cardinal organization at a spe in a special place in my heart. It was drafted by the cardinals. Came up through the minor leagues, debuted, and add a ton of career success and highlights that happen, with the birds on the bat. So, it’s tough to compare really anything else to that. I will say as I gone through different organizations and matured in the game, matured as a person. It’s been very enjoyable to learn the ins and outs, especially on the business side and and how different organizations, implement, development, talent development, scouting development, All these different pieces that go into the game that you don’t necessarily see or understand as a young player. Difference from organization to organization. Right. A lot of them. You can see why they might not have as much success as an organization might say. Yeah. Same does things a certain way and when you hear the card in a way, that is something that, stems from A lot of those guys that we’ve talked about, they’ve they’ve passed along the tradition of winning and culture that has a way of of reading that type of success that’s expected. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, let’s hope we get back on that, on that winning train. Right? It’s been a it’s been a tough season for the cardinals to say the least. So, last couple of questions here, man, that call to the minors. What was your or to the majors from the minors. What was that like? Was that a special moment? Obviously, it’s a special moment, but, pretty cool story there. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Very cool story. Actually, I was so I was in AA, which is rare to get the call from your AA. Manager to come up to the maintenance. Okay. My wife was actually in town. We had just gotten married in the off season before. My wife was in town. I was a starting pitcher at the time. And in between starts, you have different duties. My duty that day was to be in the stands with the radar gun charging pitch speeds for armpitcher for the opposing pitcher. And my wife had surprised me to come in town, so she was sitting. I may always get her sit, like, couple seats away or a road back to make it you know, like, I’m I’m here to work in, but we can we can talk a little bit in between innings. And so, the game goes by. Manager calls me into the off office after the game. And going into that office, I was certain I was in trouble for talking to my wife during the game, which is the most I wrote a part of the situation. But it gives me the call. It gives me the information. It tells me I’m going up to the big leagues, and I’m able to my wife’s there, so we’re able to celebrate it’s an amazing moment. It’s not completely unexpected, which was really cool. And then being young and and having an opportunity that, I mean, you just every child, every young ball player dreams are coming to the major league, but I tell that story because I think that mindset of that I had of thinking I was in trouble. I mean, that’s been from, me understanding, like, you know, this opportunity I have is so special and, I expected that that opportunity. So much. I respected the organization. I didn’t wanna do anything to ever hurt that. You know, other than having bad performance on my field. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I think that really helped me as I gotten some major leads and continued have success, I think it it helped me to stay focused and not get distracted by, a lot of the other things that come along with being a major league baseball player. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you get the call, you get, so I guess you were, what, in Springfield, Missouri at that time, or where were you at? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. Springfield, Missouri, Hammond, Parkfield, a great place to play baseball baseball baseball. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you’re so you get the call. So then you physically getting like a vehicle. You’re you and your wife getting a, you know, got a bag and you you head up to Saint Louis and and you you park, you walk in. I mean, what is that like? You walk in that major league locker room for the first time. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. Now today after ten years of major league service, it seems normal. But at that time, Speaker Brett Gilliland: But that first one, right, you’re walking in there. There’s, you know, I guess pool halls would have been gone at that time. Right? But then you got Yadi and Wayneo and these guys. And so what’s that like? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s just everything at that level is just so big. Just the locker room, you know, the the food that’s available is ten times what you have in the minor leagues. The the uniforms are always pressed and clean to perfection everything in your lockers everything, from the the visceral experience to having the interviews. You have these big cameras with microphones and quarters and suits and lights. You know, you go from playing in a stadium with a single deck of seats to a stadium now that has has three decks of seats. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: There’s all these things, like I said, that seem normal now because I’ve gotten accustomed to it, but I remember at twenty two years old, walking into this, and it’s just, I mean, an incredible rush of adrenaline to understand. Okay. Like, there’s people actually showing up to come see me play per se. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, and also too, I gotta think, you know, I’m in the money business. So you gotta think that first time you look at your bank your checking account after, you know, probably playing baseball for a month versus the minor league double a what you get paid. It’s like holy crap. Like, this is the real deal. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: That was a cool, experience too that I, I kind of forget about, but, because I I was drafted twenty first round. Didn’t have a big signing, but I, so I never really seen commas in a check before. And, when when you get called up and you sign your your major league contract that they’re selecting, there’s all I guess, all the legal that goes into that, but it actually took place just in the equipment room and the laundry room next to the dryer with, with the traveling Secretary, but I remember looking down and seeing the amount that I was gonna be paying the thinking Oh, like, you know, I’m I’m good. Like, I made it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. Yeah. Now I get the pension to ten years. All that stuff is beautiful, man. Congrats. So, what’s what’s the focus, man? What’s the next five years hold for you? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah, that’s so going through a rehab right now of, Tommy John actually hurt my elbow the first day of this season, which with Detroit. So I have about a twelve month recovery process on that. And I really just, at this point, taking it day by day, and going back to a lot of those fundamentals. Like we talked about earlier, where I’m taking care of myself, making sure physically mentally, you know, taking moving the ball forward continually every single day, and that will eventually lead to me completing this rehab process. How my body’s feeling, what my performance looks like. And then, if I wanna pursue opportunities to continue to keep playing at that point, then also continuing to learn, reading books, taking a online class here and there to continue to expand our challenged myself, I think, more than anything. I really enjoy that. And then, being a dad, enjoying my family, my wife, and kids, That’s something that is, you know, it’s it’s very rewarding and as much as rewarding as it is to be a professional and to have the compensation and the rewards that come along with being a high achiever. Nothing that compares to the limited amount of time that we have to be dads and then to invest in relationship with with the spouse. House. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Best job in the world, man. Well, Trevor Rosenthal has been a complete honor to have you, man. It’s been awesome. Loved watching your career with Saint Louis, and, we’ll continue to watch your career. And, so I hope that arm gets healed up and get you back on the mound, and, we’ll see you out there. But, working on listeners to find more of you. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. We’ve been posting some more content. Recently on the x platform, formerly Twitter. Instagram is a great place. I try and be active on both of those. Mediums and, yeah, would love to interact with anybody that you’d like to follow. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think you got a new logo you made too, didn’t you? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. The boys at Hat Launch again. Shameless bug, but they helped me out putting together a logo, and I’ve been sporting it recently. I’ve actually had a lot of really cool feedback and people who are friends and family that would like to be involved with that. So maybe there’s something there. Maybe there’s a business in the future. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And what’s the goal with that? You know, is there anything with that? Or is it just because it’s cool or are you gonna do something with it? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I think at this point, it’s more or less, doing the things that Matt Holiday did for me. I have a lot of earned experience in the game and and in life and to share that. If one thing helps one person, it was all for it. But, you know, the brand and the social media stuff. That’s just today’s today’s world. And so, trying to figure it out just like everybody Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like it, man. Just feedback for you. I love seeing that, you know, the workouts and just, you know, it then it inspires me. Alright. I gotta go that next mile, man. I gotta do a harder workout today. When you see that type of stuff. So I appreciate you doing it all, man. And it’s been awesome having you on the Circive Success, brother. Thanks for being with me.