The Circuit of Success Podcast with Brett Gilliland

On this episode of Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Alana Stott, a security expert and Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. Alana and Brett discuss her and her husband’s journey, which began with her husband spending a lot of time in Libya and then cycling from Argentina to Alaska to raise money for a mental health charity. They also talk about the importance of forgiveness and how to let go of resentment and anger, as well as the importance of dealing with disappointment and finding the silver lining in difficult situations. Alana encourages listeners to pick up a copy of her book, She Who Dares. Full Youtube Video     Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your Host, Brett Gilliland. I’ve got Alana Scott with or Stott with me today. I’m sorry, Alana. How are you? Speaker Alana Stott: Oh, it’s okay. I’m completely used to that. Thank you very much. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I told myself I wasn’t gonna do that and here I did it. Be careful what we tell ourselves. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: I know. Well, my maiden name was Dylan, so I thought Stott would be an upgrade, but it’s Stott. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s right. It’s just just as hard. Right? So where are you calling in from? Speaker Alana Stott: I’m in California right now Speaker Brett Gilliland: right now. Okay. Very nice. How’s California weather good? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. It’s been good. Yeah. It’s starting to cool down a bit so I’m again. I mean, the cool down here is still like super hot for scotland. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Yeah. I was just in Oregon, golfing last week in they said they don’t even have air conditioners up there. And, like, we it was like sixty five was the high, and they said it was that was hot for them. So we hit we hit the jackpot, so that was good. Weather was amazing. Yeah. We’re good. Well, if you can Speaker Alana Stott: Go ahead. Pardon me. No. I don’t mind it, but, I I do like to the cooler temperatures for sure. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Absolutely. So if you can, let us give us a little background. What’s made you the woman you are today? You’ve got a lot of stuff going on, and we’ll get to that and and see your books back there in the background. And and Kelly Sharon spoke very highly of you and said, you gotta get her on the podcast, and Then I saw you were in Stott Louis recently Gilliland we’re at, a women in business event. You met Katie Collier. So it’s just a small world. It just continues to amaze me. But if you can, just give us a lay of the land. What’s made you the woman you are today? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. Super small world. Absolutely. Well, I was born in Aberdeen in Scotland, which a small small city in Scotland, but it’s also the oil and gas capital of Europe. So it’s small but mighty, I guess. I grew up and while would be kind of more of a we call it a counter lift date. I guess you guys mean like the kind of gateway kind of areas. So it was kind of an a a city that was wealthy and poor. That was it. That it had an overall middle ground. It was that. My mom was a single mom, so we kinda grew up that we had to be half to herself since she provided the the basic needs, which was always meant for us, but everything else we had to work on ourselves. So I started working now is eleven. And that really was just a job that I guess it got me from, nothing to just been able to to do, like, similar things. So they didn’t actually pay me in this first job that I worked as, and they would pay me in food. But it was really cool food. So it was something a bit different from from what I was used to. But what I did do was I used that experience to learn about base like customer service, how to operate cash, all these kind of things. And what that allowed them was when I was twelve, I applied for a job and got this job in a a fast food place, but it was like a small kind of independent run fast food place and the guy that ran it was an alcoholic so he used to disappear every bunch of time as soon as the pub would open, he went. So I ended up pretty much just running this this little place by myself. So having a really quickly learn things like it was it was fish and chips, so you were using a fryer and everything. So even those simple things, twelve years old, you were having a quick around how to use these types of things, which then led me on to my next my next job. And then again, I was paid a bit more. And then a job came up when I was thirteen in tally sales, but my brother wanted this job again. He wanted to start earning some money for himself. So I said I would call the the organization forum because he was too nervous to do it, which doesn’t go well for Talleys. It was to be honest. I called up the lady and she actually ended up offering me a job while I was on the phone. So at thirteen, I got this job in this telemarket environment that was a hundred percent commission based, and that was really when I learned about how you can make money a different way. And then, unfortunately, around that time, my mom also getting really Gilliland eventually she she passed away. So it went from earning just to earning a little bit of extras to earning a bit of more money to get more luxury items, I guess, to then if this was now we were earning to pay the rent and pay the food and had a younger brother as well. We had to look after. So I’d gone from from, again, this is my next second Stott. But luckily I can learn along the way how to make money in different different ways. So we were able to cover the rent, but This was around about the time I then had to leave school because looking after my brother’s school, two jobs, it just wasn’t really working. So at fifteen, I was away from the educational world, I guess, but I was in the in the working environment. Around about that same time, my, younger brother’s dad came back and and kinda won custody of him. There was a small battle, but fifteen could do much to to keep him. And he took him away to live in Gilliland, and I followed because I’d only ever known my little brother in my life. So I I followed down to england and ended up working in, like, hotel chamber made in, cleaning rooms, and just doing anything I could bear. So I lived I lived there for for a small portion of time, but you you know, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen. I was super vulnerable to everything else that was going on in the world So I, unfortunately, I was in a position where I was sexually assaulted as well. So I went through a process of, a court case and things. And this is really where I learned a lot about the the system and how how sexual abuse works and and all this this the process that follows it, and that was really where I felt like I needed to learn a lot more about that area and how this is really how I started got got into the process of working in human trafficking and and fighting sexual abuse. During this whole process, I was working more in financial sectors. So I became a a debt collector, and then I ended up as a bank manager, and then they met my husband who was in the special forces, the UK special forces. He was, you know, kind of at the top of his game and then he got injured in a terrible accident in Oman and left the military after sixteen years. So we had to find a new career for him. And that was learned about the time we both decided to go into close protection. I’d learned that there was a lack of people able to help in the human trafficking environment I wanted to do something that was a bit different to what I’d been doing. So we both went into train as well, he was already fully trained as a close protection officer or bodyguard, whatever you wanna call it. But he needed his civilian qualification. So we both went and done a course together. And around that same time, I found out I was pregnant with my daughter. So Let’s again. It was a new career, but but pregnant bodyguards weren’t in high demand at this Speaker Brett Gilliland: point. Yeah. Right. Speaker Alana Stott: I ended up then learning a lot more the back end of the security business. So I was planning and doing a lot of the planning logistics and things like that. So then when Arab spring happened, which the revolution in North Africa. My husband ends up spending a lot of time there and he was in Libya for pretty much the most of everything. So then that again changed the path of what we were doing, and Libya just became a new new part of our world. Fast forward a little bit more. Dean was getting himself into more and more dangerous situations. So then he decided that what we decided together, he thought we were gonna take her out of that. And the how did it come up here? We said if you needed a new challenge, and then we decided that he would he would do a bike ride, so he was gonna cycle from Argentina to Alaska, which is fourteen thousand miles, and we were gonna raise money for a mental health Stott. So we’ve moved into that, and that was great. I I furthered my work in finance with maybe in learning more more about how to ask for money and how you raised money. I used my experience from debt collecting from the bank lines. And just really learned about the process of asking for money. So we raised over a million dollars on that campaign, And then that led us to move to America in the middle of COVID, and here we are. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, that’s a hell of a resume. And and the fourteen thousand miles happened. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. Yeah. He broke it in ninety nine days and he broke two road records doing it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Wow. So what was that like? Speaker Alana Stott: I mean, that’s so this was something completely new. He was coming back from from Libya. He’d gone from working with a special version three had this team around him all the time to working on his own. He’d been injured, so there was slight limitations to what his leg had been ripped. His ACL is NCL is hammerstein was gone. So there was lots of stuff he he couldn’t do. So he was in Libya for the most part on his own on certain operations. If he would come home and if there would be, like, shirts just soaked in blood, there would be Yeah. In this is what happened. It was just super close. Like, it’s magnifying for me running out with this patch. So but I knew that you couldn’t do a night a five job, he wouldn’t be sat behind an office desk that would just kill him more than anything. So we needed to find some sort of adrenaline in Speaker Brett Gilliland: the bus Speaker Alana Stott: that just wouldn’t kill him. And then it was around about the same time him and Prince Harry were friends, and Harry was setting up this mental health campaign that was being in a collaboration and mental health priorities together. So he said, would you mind doing it if you were gonna do it, do it for for this cause to try and raise money? So we were like, yeah. Absolutely. Let’s do that. So the focus had to be undine. First of all, getting fit and being able to cycle this hundred and fifty miles a day in minimum. So he had to keep his focus on that, and then I had to keep the focus on the fundraising. The issue that I actually came up with us was because Harry was involved, we were like under a microscope. It was completely. Then he met Megan during this whole process, and then it it got even worse for for everything. So there was there was zero benefit to having a royal name attached to this. I can tell you. But what I’d done was similar to what I’d done probably when I was eleven, I took everything that we gained and just used it to to learn as much as I could about that situation that we were in. So as an example, we have we had eleven non profits under this this campaign that we’re working with, and I managed to secure two hundred thousand in two hundred thousand pounds donation from one one organization, but the royal household had actually met with his organization before they were a bit I I guess a bit peeved that they hadn’t got to them first. So we then had to go through a bit of a legal process where I had to then spend money to be able to accept this money. And that was really frustrating because you’re just trying to raise money for a call. It’s what you’ve got all this retate basically to go through politics therapy to go through. So I learned so much about that test during that about what there was involved when it came to actually asking for money to receive in money, how to accept money. There was all sorts we had to think about that I I probably super naive to at the beginning. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And then the Harry and Megan thing happening in the middle of that, that doesn’t help stuff. I wouldn’t think. Speaker Alana Stott: No. I mean, well, I think they had their own thing going on and because you were funny because when we started the whole process, we had very little social media dial and Dean didn’t have a presence online whatsoever. He was gonna be Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — you know, Speaker Alana Stott: he did special forces. He was completely dark. So, Dean got away from that to being really put under a bit of a spotlight. And a lot of this, for example, when he broke the world record, he broke it on the eleventh of May, and the wedding was on the nineteenth of May. So we flew home in time through the wedding, but then all the questions were in would the wedding like? How was it? What was she wearing with Steven? Not one question about well, you’ve just cycle Fourteen. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Broga world record in fourteen thousand miles, but how was the wedding? Exactly. Speaker Alana Stott: And then Speaker Brett Gilliland: they had their didn’t they do a Netflix thing or something? I don’t follow it. So I just know they There was a lot of drama there from what I hear. So, so let let’s talk about like so you’re doing this stuff when you’re the high profile bodyguards and different things. I mean, that’s a unique A lot of people listen this probably don’t have or need a bodyguard, but, I still think it’s fascinating is what kind of work are you doing? So apply that work to the work of, like, the everyday person that what we do, whether it’s in a conference room, a boardroom, whatever you have, what what are some of the parallels there? Speaker Alana Stott: Know, it’s it’s everything like the the logistics and planning that go into security operation are the exact same things as if you were plan and, you know, a takeover of a company or if you were starting up a new business and this is the same ingredients that goes into it. And it depends how well you do it as to what your outcome is, Gilliland that I’ve watched many security companies fail. Over the restart, our security come in two thousand and ten, and over that year’s amount of businesses I’ve seen go down, when the operators are some of the best that I’ve ever known in the special forces world, they were, you know, the number one. The skills that these guys have brought to incredible, but the things that they lacked, and then they never went and found. The the biggest one that I ever come across is their inability to understand their value and to actually send invoices and to be on top of their business and and to treat it as a business, you know, because they would be you know, this incredible skills have been able to rescue hostages out hostile environments or, you know, take celebrities around the world or whatever area of security you’re working, you could be in a mining in in Mexico or you could be, you know, on the red carpet in LA. When you’re not running the actual business correctly, none of that can matter. And that some has something I see all the time is that that they’re not running the back end properly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I would assume most of the big, big celebrities these days have detail like yourselves. Is that correct? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. If we stay away up well away from celebrities now, but, the most of them do have a level of security. And and again, that’s some one of the jobs that we do now is we do vulnerability assessment. So we actually go and assess the security package that is existing within clients. And often it can be that a person either, normally people don’t engage security until it’s Stott the fact that they actually need it. That’s their disappointing point. What I mean, what we do is we provide vulnerability assessments. We’ll go in and we’ll check out a person’s advice and check out everything from their their children right up to their businesses and see any holes, any loops, anything that people into up to cyber security is a huge huge issue for most people now. That’s not actually what we do. We’re more of the physical but we do look at them and see what they’ve got in place. And we can put them in the in the right direction, but a lot of time, security incident had to take, like, Kim Kardashian and Paris, you know, when she was attacked in the hotel room in Paris, that was when she upped her security massively. Now I would argue there’s a bit of an advantage taken there because she didn’t need when she went up to, but the fear was used to then see what we’ve got going this entire and on. And a lot of the times, this type of people are are huge taking advantage of because they don’t understand exactly what it is that they need and people see them as a massive paycheck, you know, and we can get whatever we want out of these people. They know what they’re doing. So for us, that’s a lot of what we do. You’ll go and assess what they’ve actually got and if they need it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I assumed in today’s world too is if you know you’re going to this part of the country or some place in the world, there’s pre work that goes on too. So, like, I know people that travel that may wanna start investing in that, right, that they get a pre travel plan. So if you’re gonna go overseas, maybe a a company like yourselves or other ones, another guy I know. They will go ahead and pre plan your trips on which part of the the town to go to and which part not to. And, you know, transportation to have versus not have. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. And and, you know, what what me and Dean try and do is make your life as happy and as easy as possible because the worst the worst thing that can is when you engage security is the the fear of god into on a daily basis about how dangerous the world is. And that’s That’s not what we’re doing. I mean, we’ve got three kids and we raise those kids to be security aware. They’re not in fear. They’re just aware of their surroundings and their conscience that they’ve They’ve got this, you know, peripheral vision that a lot of people are kinda lacking now. And what that’s what we’re trying to teach your appliance. So, yeah, we’ll do full planning on where they’re going. You know, sometimes going to Africa, on a a safari, we’ll wanna do a full check on what it is they’re doing where they’re going hotels they’re staying at. But what we’re doing as well is we’re giving them advice on their social media use, and and if they’re Stott real time or when they’re posting, how they’re posting it often I’ve looked at new clients, and before I would even meet I could look at, look at just their public profile page, and I could tell you where their kids go to school, what time they leave, where they live, where normal hangout is, you know, I can find out so much about them just by what they’re putting on the internet themselves. So what we’ll try to do is say that we don’t some celebrities want to do that, so we don’t want to stop them. But what we wanna do is say, well, you don’t need to post it on the second that you’re there, or if you’ve of your house, you know, not have the house number or not have the location on or then we’ll look at their children because their children are often usually the ones that people will look at to get information. And so many times, we can find kids with Snapchat location services turned on or you know, school jumpers and images. There’s so many things that we go through. A big a big part of what we do is child online exploitation as well. So that’s a a big part of our business. Yeah. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: that’s all these kids know. I mean, you think about it. Right? I mean, we didn’t grow up with that stuff, but they do. And we talk to our kids about that. It’s it’s crazy. It’s scary. I find it crazy too. This Airbnb thing I see they’re doing now is where these celebrities are renting their houses out and you can come and stay at the back of their house. I mean, obviously, this is some sort of partnership, but I would think there’d have to be security involved in that. Have you seen that? Speaker Alana Stott: I actually haven’t seen that. You know, this sounds a bit scary. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I saw like Ashton Kutcher and, I can’t think of his wife’s name. They have some farmhouse there in California. And, like, you can rent it and they’ll be there. Like, you can rent, like, the guest house or something. I’m like, that doesn’t sound Right. But anyway, that’s for another podcast, I guess. So let’s let’s, change the subject here and, let’s talk about, success. How do you define that? And, what does it mean to you? Speaker Alana Stott: Well, you know, we’ve been through so much over the years, I guess. When we can sit down with our kids and we know that what we’re doing isn’t affecting them in any negative way. I think that’s when we know that we’re we’re was successful. What we do on a daily basis can be so varied. It can be, you know, from doing the security work, Dean’s film and a TV show in Mexico. Right? Now, we can be, doing things about human trafficking with the kids. We’re doing something every day, but as long as I can sit down at night and sit down and Stott, are they happy? Are they safe? Are they, you know, following the right path? And that to me is is success. I know that the the answer that the it might be to do with financial, but that is that means absolutely nothing to our family. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s true. I mean, I think you’re young and professional, that’s what you think about. But as you grow and mature, hopefully, with your career, it’s, it’s more than that. And that’s why I always ask the question because for me, success can certainly be part of that can be financial, but I think there’s a bigger picture there with, you know, time with family, time with friends. You know. Speaker Alana Stott: I Do you if you focus on the financial side of it, I think that might end up being a failure for you because I think you’ve got to look at you know, what is happiness, what is gonna make you sit down every night and say, you know, I’m I’m good here. This this is awesome. And I don’t think having piles of money is ever gonna actually do that. I think, you know, they’re seeing that the kids are happy, seeing that every day we’re doing something positive to to benefit the world. If we we’re seeing those things. And I think that success isn’t those financial gains come. I I do believe fight fully in putting out the universes to exactly what neat. And I think that, you know, often I’m asked how do you how do you do the things you do? How do you get the network that you’ve got? You know, you’re out there. I think if you want something, it’s what have you got to offer other people? You know, I say that, you know, don’t go looking for what they can do for you. What can you do for person. And if you’re if you’re doing it expecting something in return, then don’t do it. Just just don’t do it for Stott give, and it will come back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I hundred percent agree with that. What you put out will come back. Be careful what you put out. Right? Talk about the gift of high expectations. I assume you do that as a as a parent, but also just for yourself, when you hear the gift of high expectations, what comes to mind for you? Speaker Alana Stott: Do you know, we we fought this really terrible habit in this family of never celebrating our successes. Every time we achieve something, it doesn’t of your breaking records. I I got my MB from King Charles last month, and we didn’t stop to celebrate anything. And we when are we gonna do it? And I was actually speaking to a friend of ours bedros, and he was saying that that this mindset that we’ve got doesn’t allow us. To celebrate because we’re at the end. We’re not at the the end game, so we keep going because that might be like a little ticking block, but we’ve got next one to achieve. We’ve got the next one to achieve. I I I believe that in our household, we all think that exactly the same way. We we do have to Stott. We’ll wait a second to tie five each other. Okay. Next. What we’re doing now? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what was that award you got again? Speaker Alana Stott: It was an MB, a member of the most excellent order of the British empire. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Wow. So tell us about that. What is that? That’s a big deal? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. I received it. So it was a King Charles’ first award, and it was for my services to vulnerable women and mental health health awareness. So it was it’s I believe it was for the work that I when I speaking to him when I received it was for the work within the human trafficking. So, I don’t know exactly what it gets you, but I got a little medal and got Stott to meet him in July. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And, nice little weekend with the family there. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. It was lovely. Actually, the day he got coronated in Gilliland, so there was a second coronation firm Scott. So we had a full day. Lovely. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. Talk about your book. She who dares. I know that recently came out. So let’s, spend a little time on that. Brag on that book for a minute. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. She really dares came from so Dean wrote his book after the bike arrived the rent list. And when he wrote that, I’m obviously featured a little bit in that. So a few people have said, well, when’s the line? Is book coming I’ve actually always I’ve been writing since I was a little girl. I just Stott when mom died, and actually then during COVID, I picked it up again and thought I’m gonna gonna and as I was writing Shihu bears, and I was writing stories about some of the things at times, like, I talked to people about it, and they were like, that happened to me or I’d been through the same thing, and I was having these conversations. And I was like, I was nervous about putting the book out because you’re literally putting out your life to to the world and the more Speaker Brett Gilliland: vulnerable I spoke. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. More of people I spoke to, the more I was like, no, this does need to be shared. And it’s been great. Like, every time I’m receiving a message about somebody who’s been through something similar or, you know, that hasn’t really told other people about what they’re going through or they’re struggling with some and and they’re able to read it and pull from it. That’s such a blessing to be able to do that. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: how have you through all that? I mean, through the blessings and the success and you know, obviously, we talk a lot about success on the circle of success. But how do you how do you find yourself to dig yourself up out of a hole? Pick yourself up off the ground. Right? You get knocked down. We gotta get right back up. How do you do that personally to find success in your life? Speaker Alana Stott: I in high task for money, the the money books that I’ve wrote, I talk a lot about failure because I I do see failure as the stepping stones are your is a blessing. We’re learning every single time. We’re all we’re only failing in your research, Heather. Our our knocks. The one thing that I found from I I I I fail. I put myself up, but I go through it. And it’s it’s not always easy. I always give myself a little bit of time. I give myself a twenty especially with the big stuff. Some of them big happens, Deanel always say, take a breath, sleep, and then deal with it. Normally within twenty four hours of fix that or came up with a solutioner. But I also think forgiveness is a big one. I hear a lot of people holding on to anger and resentment and the pain of things that they’ve been through. I I feel like I forgive I’ve always felt like I can forgive a lot easier, and I don’t hold on to any resentment anger. I think it just so weight you that seeing people do I’ve seen how Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. — sad to make them and how long it can make them. I feel like you don’t maybe necessarily need to the the evil that someone’s put on you doesn’t need to stay with you. You can release that. You can get rid of it and then put it away from you. Forgive that. Forgive what’s happened and move on Speaker Brett Gilliland: So how do you do that though? So I mean, that’s easy to say, I think. Right? And you had experience with that. But if I’m a person right now that’s in this dark moment and they’re having this issue at work or at home, I think they might say, yeah, right. My deal’s different. So how do I put it away? How do I just put it away? Put it in a box, put it in a shelf and move on? How do I do Speaker Alana Stott: listen, the more the more it stays with you, the more it’s gonna hold on to everything that you could possibly be in the future and the more you’ve written. It’s it’s not easy to say. What you’ve just done to me was first thing, but I’m gonna forgive you and I’m gonna move on. But you have to do it for yourself and your family because every every minute that that’s holding on to you in and the pain and the resentment and the hatred, it’s gonna go on to the next generation as well. And I don’t care if it’s to do with, you know, sexual assault of its PTSD, if it’s, you know, somebody’s robbed you, whatever it might be. If you’re holding on to that anger and pain and hatred and all those hard negative feelings inside you, it is going on to your next generation one hundred percent. So to say that it’s not that easy to let go of, it’s your responsibility to let go of it. It’s your responsibility for the next. You’re you’re a little people to say, no, we’re gonna Stott gonna do it. And, yeah, it’s it’s it’s not easy thing. I know so many people who who kind of cling on to the anger for dear life because it’s almost it’s become part of them. You have to find that outlet to pull it. For me, I’m always looking at the future. I’m looking I’m looking at the bigger picture. I’ve got three little people that hundred percent need me to guide them along the way. But there’s also a world of people out there that that need help. Every single day, I see people that need help. And every time I feel anger, resentment or pain anything. It stops me being able to help them. So I look at it. It’s not about me. It’s about everyone else around me and everything I can’t do. So if you’re kind of holding on to it, I hate to say it. It can be a little bit selfish, so let it go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Again, that letting go part is that it’s a self talk do you think? I mean, how do you can truly convince yourself? Because, I mean, I’ve had those issues that follow you around a little bit. And I think I’m pretty good at shrugging them off. I call it the bounce back theory where the most successful I’ve seen, people that I’ve seen, get bad news, but they bounce back really, really quickly. Right? But then you also have people to hold on to it for days. So, again, I would ask almost the same question that was how? Like, am I How do I release that to where it doesn’t become part of my everyday life? Speaker Alana Stott: Again, I mean, I can always speak from me, and I can say that I’ve seen people have gone through some of the most horrendous things I’ve dealt with people in awful circumstances. And I never say that my pains worse than everybody else. So I think I I hear that a lot that people think, oh, yeah, you know, that it’s about the fact that you didn’t get as bad as, like, I see into I’ve watched people that have been through sexual assault in the household, but just take that. And maybe the girls have gone through it, but maybe the sons watched it or witnessed it or had to listen to it. He never maybe they experienced it, but I can say, I have watched the girls get over it, and the and the guys struggle to get over it. Now whose pain was worse, but who was going through worse. I don’t think there’s any way to say who went through worse, but one’s managed to get over it and one’s still struggling to get past it. And I think that the the people that have seen pull through it have got a higher purpose. They’ve got other things that are more important than their pain that they went through. And I I do feel like if we could get out and we can see that there’s so much more that you’re needed for. You can’t be stuck there. It’s have to keep moving forward. The the yeah. Do I still feel pain from things that have gone on the path? Yeah. But I don’t give myself time to think about it. I feel like I’ll use that energy and know that I was put through those tests for a reason. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. So what so what would you tell yourself now? I mean, knowing that stuff now and getting to their side of some pretty, you know, horrific things in your life. What advice would you give that 10:15, twenty year younger person, younger self? Speaker Alana Stott: I go back a lot, you know, I’ll do if I’m doing a lot of meditation to kinda do like to go back to them, give them a little hug from my older self. And I think that I feel like if we if we done that a bit more as well, that we can go back and, you know, see people criticizing themselves a lot, you know, we can we can critical about our bodies who we are. And I often say, like, go to your, like, deep state and go back to that little girl or, like, little boy and say that same thing to them. It’s a lot more difficult. To criticize that way. So for me, it would be just you are you are, it sounds so cliche and so cheesy, but you are enough, like, kids right now are competing themselves to absolutely everything inside of there, and it’s really sad. And for for Little Elana, first while I would just give her huge amounts of hugs and tell her that she is special and that she is required in this earth for so much more than what she’s going through right now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s great. Just a big hug. Right? Sometimes you just need a big hug. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: My son needed a big hug. My second son turned sixteen this past weekend, and it was Labor Day yesterday. And so the DMV was closed. He was supposed to get his driver’s license today. And, then something went wrong the system because it needed three business days. Well, Labor Day doesn’t count as a business day. So we had to give him a big hug today. But my point to that story is Sometimes we get disappointing news. Right? And I’m a firm believer in, yes, it’s okay to be disappointed. It’s okay that you’re mad that you’re not getting your driver’s license. Let’s also try to flip the script on that and say, you know what? But there’s a plan for that. Right? It was raining pretty hard this morning. Maybe god did put you in a in a vehicle during and doing your test during that. Right? So always trying to find, in my opinion, that that silver lining, that one thing when I’m disappointed, of why the plan was. It is what it is. The plan’s written. Now I just gotta deal with it. Again, okay to be upset, but I gotta deal with it. Thoughts on that. Speaker Alana Stott: Hundred percent. Like, you’re meant to be where you’re meant to be when you’re meant to be there. It’s it’s all there is another planet, and that disappointment of the, you know, I was gonna buy that house from your sales fell through or or that happened for a reason. And and you’ll know that 05:10 years, you’re just backing Well, imagine if we’d done that and that had happened and that had gone through. Yeah. Usually usually it becomes clear eventually. And I think just in the process, you know, put in the work, do what you need to do to make it happen. And then if it’s not happening, and you’ve got an ability to change it, then go for it. But things that the driving license plates is shut, but also understand that deep my husband’s got a real terrible habit of comparing his situation to our twelve year old daughter who can’t go to the mall that day because a friend, you know, has to go somewhere Gilliland then she’s stuck at home and she can’t go to tomorrow, and it’s the worst thing in the world. And then Dino’s, you know, Dean gave the list of things that he’s currently dealing with, well, you know, there’s people stuck in Afghanistan. I’m trying to evacuate and there’s this, and that much your problems. Right. This is as big as that. So we got to My Speaker Brett Gilliland: my problems are bigger than your twelve year old going to the mall problem. But still for her, that’s her Afghanistan in getting somebody out of their problem. Right? You you mentioned meditation a little bit ago. So, walk us through that. A lot of people listen to that or listen to this. We talk about it all the time. How do you meditate? Why has it been so important in your life? Speaker Alana Stott: So this was something that one thousand percent did not come easy to me. I found it really, really difficult to just be present with myself. And then I read, the warrior mindset, and I I learned a little bit more about the the way the samurai worked, and that was something that really resonated with me. I I loved how were able to switch it on and off, and the everything I’d seen about meditation up to them was about, you know, sitting for twenty minutes, sitting for thirty minutes, having all that I really struggled with that. What I liked about the the samurai method was being able to switch it on instantly and switch between your waves. Really, really quickly and just have those moments and how I’ve used that now is when I’m feeling that overwhelm everything’s too much here. There’s so much going on. I can just do that little moment of just bringing myself back, sat in and myself, and then, okay, we can move. Then, yeah, we can do the twenty minute ones, or we can do, you know, give ourselves some real me time, but I feel like those little instant moments are Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Alana Stott: better for me for me. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I I would agree. I think I’ve had to learn the years. If you told me sit down and just like kind of breathe or think about your now don’t think for twenty minutes, it’s impossible. But I I I what I have found is I’ve built that muscle up that five minutes is more than enough time to change your life with meditation. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: then you’ll get used to doing ten and fifteen and is, but I still don’t sit down for twenty minutes and just meditate. Right? I’m I’m at 05:10, maybe fifteen, if I’m lucky, Speaker Alana Stott: just Speaker Brett Gilliland: because my brain goes to me of different places. Speaker Alana Stott: And I think you’ve got to understand what the purpose of doing it is. For me, it is just to re center myself and pull myself back in and just just, you know, breathe everything together again and, okay, tackle it again. And sometimes I might need that bit longer, and sometimes that moment will do. So it’s it’s up to finding your own positioning, but I’d I’ve never, yeah, I’ve never been a fan of the plane of Rachel here every day at 10:00. I wanna sit down through — Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Alana Stott: twenty minute, you know, that’s not me. I need to be able to do it. Do it sporadically and on the move. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Do it on your time? Yes. So if I were to follow you around, with a camera for a few days and see something numerous things maybe that that are day in, day out. You do not fail on those. You will you will not miss those. Are there any habits in there that you think are important people to know? Speaker Alana Stott: I’m making my bed, but something that I’m I think it was Edmund Craven who wrote the book, make your own bed. And I’ve followed it ever since and every single day without fail that bed is and I think that it’s such an important habit that the kids do have Dean does because it does, as as he says, it gives you that first achievement of the day, but it gives you that for for me to see an unmade bed, it’s almost like you are setting yourself up for of a failure for the day. Like, you’ve, like, you’ve not got that discipline and that this is this is what I’m gonna do for the rest of the day is make sure that it’s all done. So I’ve I’ve I’ve and the principal kept I mean, now that make her bed. I make my bed if I’m in a hotel. I make my bed if I’m in somewhere this place doesn’t matter. The bed is made when we get out because we’re up and we’re ready to go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, it’s fine. I was smiling when you said that because I was on this golf trip. I’ve mentioned a couple times, last week. I’m with, you know, me and seven other guys, so eight of us out there. And, we all had our own rooms in this little, like, cottage thing and when the guys comes by and we’re talking and I’m starting to make my bed and he’s like, you make your bed? We’re on, like, a trip like this. I’m like, Well, yeah, man. I’m like, and I wasn’t perfect. I’m sure I missed it a day or two while I was there, but I’m like, yeah. I’m like, even if I play bad golf today, I I don’t do well, whatever. I’ve at least accomplished that and I come home to a nice tidy clean room. It just feels better. Right? Because I and I do believe that. I know it’s silly to be talking about making a bed, you know, our kids were like that. We’re like that with them too. You at least accomplish something and you come back to a tidy space because if you have a bad day, man, least the last thing I wanna do is come back to a place that’s just disheveled already. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. And there’s something about your mindset. The bed the bed then goes to the room to to everything else, to your towel, you know, on the on the floor. Yeah. You know, you can take your own responsibility. Even if you do have a housekeeper or help these are your responsibilities. You know, you pick up your own clothes, you tidy up your own room, you put your your things away. Everything in our house, everything is is ship shape. You know, when we see, when we see messes, I think it just it it transcends through the rest of your life when you’re leaving a mess and it’s kind J. It goes to everything else too. So — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Alana Stott: Stott your own stuff out. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: What mother Theresa say? Front, sweep your own front porch. If everybody did that, there will be a lot better this. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: It’s a thousand percent true. Where I’m from in Aberdeen, I know my great auntie Molly, who’s my biggest inspiration. She died twenty twenty when she was ninety five. And — Wow. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Alana Stott: she she was the one who kind of taught me what some of those little tiny little Abridine used to be such a clean little town. It’s a city. Sorry. But the the the main street was Stott, you know, everybody cleaned their own front pavement. And now it’s almost like that’s not my responsibility. I’m not touched I’m not doing it. And then there’s just garbage all over the streets in there, and it’s just been left to, there’s a, a generation that they knew what they were doing there. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, last couple of questions here. If you, when you hear the words and and see this symbol right here in the microphone for those watching, achieving a future greater than your past. What comes to mind when you hear that? Speaker Alana Stott: That’s probably similar to my keep keep moving forward where I’m from is one thousand percent where I Stott, but it’s not who I’m gonna be and what I’m doing in the future, you know, The future for me every day is bigger and bigger, and it includes more and more about helping other people when that the main purpose for us for us. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. Alright. I’m pulling my phone out here to get your Instagram up. We’re gonna play the the Instagram game. So pick a number between one and ten. Speaker Alana Stott: Four. Speaker Brett Gilliland: K. Four. Pick a number between one and three. Two. Well, this is perfect. I mean, she did not pay me to do this, but this is it’s the post was your of your book, the cover of your book. And it says, have you got your copy yet? She who dares she who dares out now. Kelsey Sharon. She’s got a little post on here about it. She’s excited. So again, talk about that. Why should somebody go out and pick it up and read it? Speaker Alana Stott: Gosh. Kelsey is my number one fan. That’s that’s awesome. You know, it’s just it’s a book that is good for for men and women. You know, I love that I’ve had people from Jack Carr reviewing it too, Kelsey, to it doesn’t matter who you are. It’s got something in it for for everyone I hope. I hope that it gives a look. Or as you say, it’s the main theme that I’m getting about the book pick yourself back up. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, and that’s true. Right? Because if you get knocked down and you don’t get back up, well then you’re guaranteed a loss. So what’s the worst thing? Just get back up do it one more time. It works. So where can our listeners find more of you? Speaker Alana Stott: Every at allana dot com and allana dot across various, social media, YouTube, etcetera. We’ve just started our own podcast as well, which is behind the scene, which is releases on Monday, which is the eleventh. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Yeah. Well, we will put that in the show notes and send people over there and, and we’ll check it out. Well, a lot of thanks so much for being with me today. It’s been awesome having you on the circuit of success.

On this episode of Circuit of Success, Brett Gilliland interviews Michael Lombardi, a former NFL executive, Olympic coach, Fit Biomics Director of Partnerships, and co-founder and CEO of Rowficient. Lombardi shares his journey to success, which began with his high school rowing coach teaching him the importance of accountability and hard work. He also talks about how to think big and negotiate deals, and emphasizes the importance of understanding that everyone is different. Finally, Lombardi shares his daily routine for peak performance and how he has learned to be confident in his abilities. FULL YOUTUBE EPISODE Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, I’ve got Mike Lombardi with me, Mike. What’s going on, my man? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Just living the dream up here in Boston. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Living the dream, raining up there? Speaker Michael Lombardi: It’s like a downpour. It’s like a monastery today. Speaker Brett Gilliland: We’ve been having, it’s been like a it feels like a hundred and fifteen literally, a hundred and fifteen. All sports have been canceled, high school, kids sports, everything. Have been canceled all week. So which is kinda nice to get a little few nights off, you know, when you get four kids. It’s nice to have dinners or the family. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s, I’m sorry to hear this. That’s what went out, but, whatever it is. Yeah. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You are a Princeton grad. You are Olympic coach. You are, Fit Biomics Director of partnerships. You are the co founder and CEO of Rofficient, and you got a lot of stuff going on. What we talked about before this was your wife was on my podcast about three years ago. Speaker Michael Lombardi: She’s, she’s the best. She She, funny enough, you know, she we’ve had two kids in the last three years. And, you know, I was enjoying the little break of her kicking my ass and workouts and yesterday. It’s officially over. The run’s done. She’s back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: She’s back. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Excuse me. I’m done one day. It’s over. Yeah. It’s over for me now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, I’m sorry to hear that. And did you guys meet during the Olympics? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Is that Speaker Brett Gilliland: how you met earlier? Speaker Michael Lombardi: We actually met at Princeton. We met the first day of at Princeton in the Boathouse. We were both rowers. You know, we we just built a friendship over the first year and then started dating. And then you know, we we graduated same time. She decided to keep growing on the national theme. I started coaching at Princeton. Which is where the training center was. And then, I started helping out because we’re always on the same body of water. So, you know, I’d I’d finish up a row. I’d see them coming in I say, what do you think? Can I just start giving her some feedback on it? Help them her through London. And then for the real cycle, I was and end up being her coach for, part two. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: Wow. Speaker Michael Lombardi: That’s, yeah, we got married in between, but, yeah. That’s So Speaker Brett Gilliland: she has to listen to you when you’re on talking rowing. Right? I mean, you know, different. She has to listen to you on the water, but maybe not at home or what. Speaker Michael Lombardi: No. We’re good team dynamic. You know, I I think that that’s always been a strong suit for us is we have complimentary skill sets and our personalities go well. Like, I sit back and kinda see how I can help a person, a team, anything. And then you you coach them along, and Sarah’s very receptive to coaching. And she likes feedback. So it’s it’s a it’s a really good match. But yeah, it’s things that I kinda learned through coaching. I’ve kind of taken everywhere and kind of applied to whatever. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. So if you can, maybe give us a little bit of the backstory, Mike, on what’s made you the man you are today. I’m sure there’s people all around you and, some and backstory in there. But what what’s helped with that? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Sure. I mean, I I think I don’t know how many people say it’s where they’re from, but, you know, I’m from Philadelphia area, South Jersey, I think it’s, like, kind of, part of the DNA a little bit that, you know, you work hard. You kinda, you don’t make excuses. It’s all about accountability. And I think that, you know, my my dad was always a really good role model for that, and and a big I’d say that the first person I really remember kind of like changing my life in that sort of sense, was my high school rowing coach, Gilliland, And, you know, he pointed out to me, or he he made me believe in myself to a level that I didn’t think of before. Like, I was a talented athlete. You know, Varsity basketball. I I messed around with soccer, which is funny. It’s six Gilliland, like, rowing, I just kinda stumbled into it because somebody said, you should go try this because you’re tall. I was decent, but I didn’t really totally understand, like, you know, I as my most how I high school kids don’t like. What is full exertion? What what is going to the max? And I think he really kind of helped me unlock that. So it’s the combination of me being a Jersey guy going through a this high school in Philly. All those guys knew each other. In the basketball circuit, I kinda had like a chip on my shoulder. It’s like, I’m this outside guy, and I was not part of their crew. And that was behind I was really good at basketball. And but Roan really kinda opened, you know, welcomed me with open arms and, coach Lam, you know, he held me accountable. He’s, like, you know, I re I remember this after the two thousand four, I guess, National Championship. I was still in the JV as a sophomore. And, he’s like, Mike, on next year, like, I need you to be the team. Like, that was amazing. You won that race for that. You won the championship for those guys. It this is an eight man vote. I say it’s front of the team. So now there’s all this pressure. Okay. Cool. I gotta go do this now. You know, he’s kinda grooming me the next year and you know, I go play basketball, do that whole thing. The season’s over. I show up to practice it to race day and, race practice, and he you know, it’s like my second day back. I haven’t touched a noir in, you know, four or five months. And it just unloads a little bit of, like, to make the pull a thousand times better, not worse. And just that the course of that season was like, Hey, man, this is no bullshit. Like, people are really counting on you, and you have to hold yourself accountable. And he really he hammered home this what accountability means and holding yourself to a standard, and it doesn’t matter what anybody else is doing. Like, it’s your standard or our standard, and that’s that’s what matters. So, he completely changed it for me. And then when I got to college, I carried a lot of that stuff with me. And then through growing it instant, and then coaching at Princeton, you know, you learn a lot of lessons. And I think, I know you’ve had lots of coaches on here, but finding your voice is a hard thing, as a young coach. And what you can all you can really do is, like, you start with who who were the most recent voices or who were the influential voices in my head throughout. And that that’s where it starts. And you’re you’re more of a copy of that than yourself. So, again, another sort of inflection for me. I I took over mid year coaching, at Princeton. And I kinda came down on them a little hard on practice just because of attention to detail and one of the kids from Iowa, he said, Mike, you catch, you catch more bees with honey than vinegar. And I was like, I I think I got more upset when he said it. But, like, in just internally. But from then, it was, like, completely changed my outlook of, like, I need I that I know I wanna be as a coach now. Like, I wanna bring these kids along and these young guys and develop them, and it’s it’s about the process together. And it’s not like this is it, and this is how you do it. And that’s what I’ve kind of taken with from that point on. And when I completely changed that, then I saw way better success in the rest of that season, and then in in ensuing season. So it it, It it’s a little bit of a shift in mindset, from being so competitive as an athlete. And then shifting to, like, this is all about everybody else. Speaker Brett Gilliland: In knowing you can’t really do anything. Right? You can’t control the outcome because you’re you’re not in there. Right? You’re not in there rowing and and doing that. It’s all through other people. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. And and it’s still so fresh. Right? Like, you just did it. And it you you’re either happy with how your career ended or you’re not. Most people aren’t. You know, or I’d be still rolling for the national team or something like that. And even still, like, a lot of times, it doesn’t end up well. But, you know, Yeah. It it was it was, I would get less frustrated with the outcome more about the process. Like, you know, why why isn’t this queue working for coaching, you know, for for you making this technical change or something like that? So, you know, finding more patients and ways to connect in different ways, because everybody’s different. That that’s that’s the big thing. It’s like, because I understand something one way doesn’t mean that anybody else understands it the exact same way. So you have to reach people where they are and you might have to try fifteen different queues to get the same outcome. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So have you have you changed your definition of success over time? Right? And and I and I asked that question because I know for me, when I was twenty two years old, starting in wealth management versus now being forty five and well management. You know, my definition of success has changed quite a bit over the years. Has yours changed as you’ve progressed in your life? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. For sure. It used to be very binary. You wonder you didn’t win. I went faster than I everybody else or I didn’t. I scored more points or I didn’t. That now I look at it as those results are just the byproduct of the process. Did did we elevate the group? Like, within a team setting in terms of, like, business. So, at Woop, did we Did we elevate the brand? Did this marketing campaign? Do what it was supposed to do? Did we activate the max that we could? Did we squeeze the most potential out? Basically, did we set ourselves up for success? Did how do we execute against it? What was left on the table? And and what did we maybe over perform on? So I think it’s a more realistic and full 03:60 view of success as opposed to binary wins losses. How much money you’re making? Like, especially as, I’d say in the last two years more so, with kids, not even the first year of my, my first son’s life because it was, like, peak pandemic and I don’t, you know, whatever the world was. So I feel like I was still very stressed about I don’t wanna say the wrong things, but, at a certain point, it was just like families first and impacting the boy’s lives and Like, that that success to me, being there for them, helping them through all the things they go through, like that success. And being healthy enough, like, not going to the gym and being like, I gotta win this workout. Cool. If I do, but it’s really like, I hope I go get a good workout, spend some time with people. And come back and I can I’m healthy. Right? You know, as you get older, as I’m sure you can appreciate. Shoulder out or something. So, yeah, it it’s a completely different shift, from a mindset perspective. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, people are gonna think I’m a whoop, like, I’m getting paid by whoop or something. I’m not. I wear a whoop, have for, I guess three or four years now, and I had Kristen Holmes on the show yesterday. Be out next week. But, what what did you learn when your time there, as an early adopter in seeing something that’s grown, like, to what it is today? Speaker Michael Lombardi: So Kristen, actually was my first boss. She hired me a whoop. And we met at Princeton. We coached there, and we both had athletes in the London Olympics. So we spent some power there. So it’s kind of a long term relationship with Kristen. And she was very influential in my process too. I would say my, in my professional career. You know, she brought me in and, you know, the the thing about whoop, that that excited me back then and still does. I was doing this stuff on my own for the second olympic cycle. So I was pulling a lot of data, like, on my athletes of How many hours did you sleep? What’s your mood? What’s your urine color? SPO two monitors? You know, kind of, you know, I I call it, like, fluid periodization of training where it’s, like, We have an outcome we’re trying to achieve, but just because we have this sort of training plan written that doesn’t mean we’re gonna go and execute it if you’re like complete toast. And that’s more or less kind of like what Woot will also help you understand is like, do you need to pull back? Do you not? Can you push harder? Then you didn’t even realize it? What are the things that are actively impacting you, negatively impacting you. And I got to do that with Kristen for a year and a half. Basically, there’s like performance consultants to teams, and we got to help other teams win national championships which was more fulfilling to me than actually winning them myself. And, like, Wop is is continues to change the game. Like, you know, from that, we kinda, person went off on the thought leadership, performance science side, and I started doing strategic partnerships. So, I worked closely on on Woops major partnerships Gilliland and negotiating them, executing them, and then I got vary into leading, things in the crossroad space, functional fitness, all that kind of stuff, and then third party integrations. So whether that be Hyperized Equinox app, whatever, so we’re close with the product team. So, thing that that I always liked is I’m like a serial entrepreneur, I’d say. That’s what they told me in business school, which is, don’t don’t work for anybody. Not that you don’t play well with others, but you you thrive much more in small environments where you can really get your hands dirty. That’s what Woop was when I joined it. I think there were about thirty five people when I joined, and I got to do everything. Which is both stressful. But but, also really amazing. And now Woop is a huge company. And, you know, it’s it’s grow continues to grow and and changing lives. So, I mean, I do not remember what the original correction was, but, you know, there we are. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. There is there is a great answer. I was getting the question. And and so what it makes me think about is, you know, I think about, like, patching my homes, and I’m I’m a golfer guy. So Roy Macroy, Justin Thomas, you you see, you know, Michael Phelps, I mean, you see major, major, major sports stars wearing this stuff. And But go back because I I would apply this whoop thing we’re talking about. This bracelet that tells me everything about my life. Right? But I don’t want to be called bracelet, whatever you wanna call it. But then apply that to whether it’s wealth management, calling that mister or missus big client. Or I’m an attorney, and I wanna get that big lawsuit thing done. Whatever it may be, does how does your mind work when you’re calling on the Patrick Mahomes of the Gilliland you’re thirty five large and you’re trying to get deals like that? Not necessarily has be him. But, like, how does that go down? And how do you think big enough to think, yeah, man. What I’ve got is good enough for them. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. That’s a good point. I don’t I think maybe everybody’s different, you know, with how they deal with people that sort of scale. But I feel like having being fortunate enough to be around athletes like that a lot and having, you know, run ins with pro athletes and people I grew up with made the NBA or things like that, it it’s kinda, like, They’re just people. In reality, like, you get them on the phone. Once you kind of get over the fact, you’re like, Hey, I’m gonna talk to Pappahomes or Michael Phillips or whoever. You know, you just sit down and it’s, it’s normal. So it’s, you know, what does it look like good for them? So in terms of an ambassador or, you know, like, investor site sort of situation, that’s that’s more on a higher level. That’s probably above me. But in terms of negotiating longer term deals, with, let’s call them entities or organizations like a PGA, like across it like an Equinox, you know, You sit you know what you wanna get out of it. And which what I like to think of them as is, like, truly partnerships, not sponsorships. I think a lot of people Speaker Brett Gilliland: confused with it. Speaker Michael Lombardi: People say partnership, but they mean sponsorship, which means you’re paying for something and I’m giving you something. And I never thought of it that way, and I got a credit, you know, Antonio over to the former CMO who was my boss for a while, of, like, changing the way I think about that stuff. And, You know, it has everyone has to have skin in the game is how I think about it. And you have to find out what’s important to you, what’s important to them, and then finding something that works great that gets everybody excited. Otherwise, it’s transactional, and it’s probably gonna fail because that’s the hardest part about actual partnerships. Is getting everybody synced up and excited about what you’re doing. Now if there’s no upside to either side, why does anybody care and why you’re doing it? So whether that’s an individual, whether that’s an, like, a corporation organization. So a lot of times what people would do is they would send over sponsorship packages. What I would do is break them down and rebuild them and say, no, no, thank you. But here’s how we see it going, and here’s the timeline for success. So not just like yours at deliverable social media posts licensing of logos, blah blah blah blah. Okay. Cool. Got it. But like, what are we actually gonna do together? Was what’s innovative? How are we gonna change the game? And do something in whatever the space is that hasn’t been done that’s going to make it better for not just you know, our brand and your brand, but anybody that participates, where we wanna add something to them. So they see, you know, Woop and cross the department, like, how does that trickle down to a, you know, multimillion, individual community? Like, what’s how does that matter to them? Right? Or the PGA, how does that matter to them? How is whooping that all of a sudden show up? And you saw it in the, like, the fan experience. Right? Like, there’s there was the whoop live at the rider cop. Right? Or, you know, these these heart rate comments, right? And so it’s like, how do you start to build those things that nobody’s thinking about? Into these deals. So it has to be very forward thinking and pushing the bounds, and you have to find a partner that aligns with, you know, how far you’re trying to push the boundaries, I guess. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. You know, I loved one of the things I saw after the Super Bowl, which was counterintuitive of what people would think when Patrick Mahomes had the football, his resting heart rate was lower than when he was sitting on the sidelines and not having the football. Right? Which it tells you, he’s like, man, when I know when I get the ball, I’m in control. Right? When I don’t have the ball, I’m not in control. And I just thought that was a fascinating stat. When you look at the elite performers, When they’re at their best, man, when when they’re in control, what their their own internal body is doing compared to when they’re not in control. I thought it was fascinating. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Do you not find out about yourself here? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I do. I I I showed this to Kristen yesterday, you know, the new stress thing on the whoop is when I’m doing this or if I’m sitting with a client, like, my stress meter is lower, then when in a know, I guess you could say a more stressful situation. Right? I gotta be on. I gotta ask you these questions. I know people are gonna watch. Right? More stressful, but yet, When I look at my stress monitor, it’s it’s not. It’s my stress is lower. I feel like I’m enjoying the moment. I’m doing the things I’m put on Earth to do. And that’s what would be my equivalent of, you know, having the football or not. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. No. I I I think that’s the case. Right? Big big time players want the ball when the game’s on the line. Right? Right. Yeah. That’s when they’re I Speaker Brett Gilliland: wanna make that putt. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. You wanna make that putt. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I wanna make that putt. Maybe Kim Banging Dunes next week. If we can, I’d like to dive in, and I funny, I just got this, feedback today, like, from Lombardi. That they want more of the behind the scenes of what people are doing, which I think is great. Because when I when I talk about a a process you go through to be at peak performance, it’s like, well, I I sleep well. I exercise. I drink a lot of water. And, you know, here’s the five same steps, but I I don’t know if you like getting in the weeds on this stuff or not. But can we do that? Like, how can you help help us, help our listeners, be at peak performance, and live the things we need to do. Let’s be as detailed as we want. Let’s kinda go back and forth on that one. Sound good? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. Sure. Let’s do it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Alright. So, alarm clock goes off. We’re gonna start the day. What’s Mike Lombardi doing? What’s that process like for you? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Usually, I’m woken up by one kid or the other. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Exactly. And between two and seven. Right? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. So And, yeah, normally, normally, I’m up, probably, like, anywhere from, like, 05:30 to 06:30. What I’ll do is, I will take care of the three year old. My wife will feed the three month old. So I’ll I’ll get Mava So my my oldest son is Maverick, and I bring him downstairs. We make breakfast together. Make it make coffee. He helps him make coffee. It’s the same process every morning. He, covers his ear when I grind the beans, but then he helps me with it. He always wants to touch the beans, like, ground up beans after. So we get that. He helps me make whatever his breakfast is for that day. So it’s, you know, a bit of father son bonding kinda like warming him up to the day as he’s kind of got out of his sleep. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And give us some perspective on that. What are you what are you feeding to three year olds? I’m assuming you’re putting some lucky charms or cinnamon toast crunch in a bowl, or are you? Speaker Michael Lombardi: No. He he actually is, you know Speaker Brett Gilliland: Nothing against those cereals, Vimey’s list. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Now No. He’s he it’s tough because he doesn’t eat the traditional kid things, like, on his own, I guess. So we rotate through he’ll do, like, yogurt with, like, almond butter and jam and chia seeds in it. That’s one version. We’ll make them the kind of, healthy oats, so like oatmeal, yogurt, with, again, like, chicken, a couple other things in it to kinda give it a little bit of fitness. Occasionally he’ll want like chocolate chip pancakes Gilliland I’ll make that, and that’s fine. But most of the mornings, he’s he’s kind of on the yogurt train, and we’ll eat something like that. I will also make an oatmeal at the same time because we need to be out the door at 07:45 to get in the daycare on time. So we’ll kinda get all that. I, at some point, I have to also walk our French Goldock, so in between, I’m feeding him. So I have to figure out how to get my child there to walk the dog with me, which is harder most days than not, get all this stuff. So I’ll throw all that stuff in the car because I know I’m gonna to be hands on to get Mav in the car. We head out the door about 07:45 07:50. I drop him at daycare, then I go directly to the gym. I work out at a crossfit, box. I do my own stuff. I have a pretty good internal clock of or, you know, what I should be doing on any given day. Based off of kinda like, how did I sleep? Am I kinda jacked it up? This is something I’m excited about doing. I have a couple of people that kinda just follow whatever I do, which is fun. I’ve got a little training group that is kinda waiting for me when I roll in around 08:30. We hit it hard for, you know, about sixty to seventy five minutes, sent out the door back to, help out at home and then and really start hammering in the workday. So I don’t usually eat breakfast until after like, a real breakfast or my first real meal until after, the training’s done. So we’re at 10:30 now. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So then you eat at 10:30 ish, you know, probably help you meal there. And then how many times a day you eat? Speaker Michael Lombardi: You know, it’s what I’ve realized, and this is actually something from Kristen too. I I used to play around with this at Woot, where I didn’t make my food as much there was, like, a lot of, like, healthy fast casual around that’s, like, sweetgreen Gilliland probably, like, Mediterranean bowl type thing. Like, it’s really easy to get healthy enough food, but you weren’t, like, I don’t count my macros or anything. It just kind of aware of what I’m eating, and I think what I was doing was I was actually having too much protein in the middle of the day, and it was making me feel very lethargic. So what I did was I probably halved that protein throughout the middle day. So, but breakfast can still be high protein, you know, shakes or whatever supplements you wanna add in. But, you know, when I eat too heavy of a protein portion in the middle of the sort of, like, lunch time of day, it was like tanking me. So I do more, like, heavy veggie, you know, it could be a salad with with enough of, at least a serving of protein. And it’s it’s just giving me way more energy for the back half of the day. I usually have a nice coffee at some point. Usually, like, one or two. And I I don’t know. I guess you say how many meals do I eat? I’m just kind of like always eating. Again, I’m like a big guy, six seven to her thirty pounds. So it’s just kind of like consistent. So it’s like I just finished eating, and I’m like, alright. Well, I want another apple now, and I’m just gonna kinda keep doing that, but I don’t we don’t keep, like, crap food in the house, so to speak. So it’s like — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Michael Lombardi: always will have to be like a fruit or a yogurt as like a snack or I mean, perfect bars are basically candy bars, but like healthy. So I might have like a half a perfect bar. It’s like a bite of something and always hydrating. I know people said that, but, you know, just gotta It’s important, man. The days I feel best, it’s hard. It’s it’s really hard. If you don’t start early, It’s it’s basically impossible. I don’t know how much Chrising got into this. We used to talk about this all the time, but like, there was a period of time where I tried to drink my body weight in ounces of water for like a week. Is basically impossible, but, it, like, my, my HRV skyrocketed. I didn’t change one other thing besides water intake. So it was wild. So back to the day, now we’re at, I don’t know, work works all throughout this. Helping out with the with the three month old. Usually, you have to leave around 04:30 to go get an ad from daycare again. Go get him. Come on. We make dinner together. He has whatever he’s gonna have, and I make dinner for the whole family, every night. And then the the masquerade of bedtime begins around 06:45, bath time, bedtime. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It gets easier, brother. I’m telling you. It gets easier. Speaker Michael Lombardi: An hour and fifteen, an hour and a half. Yeah, it’s fine. And then eventually he’s down. Then it probably have about ninety minutes. Let’s say 08:00. It can actually, like, sit down or maybe I have to go clean up and get everything ready for tomorrow. So I gotta packaged lunch, you know, get the house in order and then, you know, it’s almost time for the dream feed for the the young baby. And, so I’ve got about ninety minutes to either, like, throw a Philly game on or hammer out some more work if I if I didn’t get done yet or, you know, try and get ahead on something. But usually I get myself, you know, a solid, like, thirty, forty minutes to kind of, like, unwind and, like, let my brain decompress from all that high activities. We’re also body training. And, yeah, I try to get to bed around 09:30 every night, you know, do the Speaker Brett Gilliland: Nine thirties or Speaker Michael Lombardi: something. 10:30, Speaker Brett Gilliland: 10:30. Okay. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Try it. Nice. Try it. Yeah. Try it. I Speaker Brett Gilliland: like it. That’s good, man. Now you take do you take vitamins? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Rinse and repeat? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Your vitamin gap? Speaker Michael Lombardi: I take, oh, I do like collagen. I don’t do, well, I guess I do like vitamin c, but I don’t I don’t think of a multivitamin, but I definitely should as I’m getting older. But, yeah, I do, like, way protein, collagen, creatine. That’s like a just to go to every day. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Got it. Okay. How do you, how do you challenge your own thinking? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Oh, that’s good. What I like to do is I put my thoughts down and then I have to take a day away and then rethink the whole thing. And, like, with fresh eyes, or I like to bounce ideas off people. I don’t know if it comes through on this podcast, but I’m very stream of consciousness in terms of my the way my thoughts go. So a lot of times my brain is firing faster than I can even get the words out. Or put them down. So what will happen is, I I’m just going like a million miles a minute as this an idea is populating. And I, like, I need to slow it all down to try and get it across to somebody else. So that’s that’s part of it is one. How do I articulate something to another person, even get their feedback? But, like, Once I do have that, it’s getting feedback from people that I trust that I know have different perspectives than me. But know enough about whatever I’m talking about. To effectively challenge it or validate what I’m thinking. So, I’m not going for somebody that’s just gonna tell me yes. Fact, I don’t want somebody to tell me yes. Like, you know, I wouldn’t keep you kind of around if you were just the yes person and that was the relationship. I think that’s why Sarah and I are so successful as a partnership because we do challenge each other in in that sense of different styles of thinking, not one better than the other. That’s just situational. Like, Oh, that was that’s a great thing. I didn’t think of that part. And being really open, like, not having an ego of like, well, this is what I thought and it can’t be improved upon. If that was the case, then I’d be, you know, I don’t know, I’d own Twitter or something. But, you know, you know, I’d have enough money to at least. But Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Right. — Speaker Michael Lombardi: that’s, that’s not that’s not the case. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Are you a journaler? Like, goal planning, journaling? Kind of time away. Like, I always talk about time in the business and time on the business. I like to go about once a quarter. We’ll take our team, go off-site, We plan. We strategize. We think. Do you like that stuff? Do you do that stuff? What’s that? What’s that been like in your life? Speaker Michael Lombardi: So at at Woop, I was a big notebook guy. And that was more for like biz stuff stuff or like keeping notes on that kind of stuff. Once I kinda got into building campaigns or partnerships, I could keep that on the computer. I would say, like, one of my superpowers is keep I can keep a, like, a ton of information in my head, like, fully organized. Not helpful for the people, but for like my tasks. Like, I can, you know, check them off, without putting them down. I wouldn’t suggest that for most people. But I usually do what I will do is, I do set, like, these are mandatory for the day. I always have my, like, long term goals up here and somewhere on, like, probably in my notes on my computer and my phone. But I will have, like, these three things mandatory today, get them done as soon as, like, before noon. They have to be done before noon, and then whatever else, you’re you’re gonna do more. But, like, definitely accomplish these things. Because I think where I think people get into trouble and myself included, You can never let yourself have any smaller winds. It starts to just mount and you it’s it’s easy to start. Viewing things as a failure or you’re not making progress because it’s not as tangible. So, like, it’s very important to have these sort of tangible things, whether it’s like, That’s a great gym session. I, you know, I clean and jerked something or, you know, like, I I accomplished exactly what I wanted. Okay. That’s good. Because there’s gonna be days that it’s not that. Or it’s like, I handled this, this, and this, for my life. Like, you know, we enrolled in preschool, and he’s got his lunchbox. Like, They don’t all have to be business related things. They they are life related to keep me grounded in everything that’s going on. And I I think that that keeps me level and in all of these things. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I I call it the roommate. I read that in a book once, and we all have this roommate that lives with us. It’s that that person, right, sits on our shoulder and may tell us things. It’s It’s our in internal thoughts, our internal conversations that we have. Are you are you good at those? Are those mostly positive? If they are negative at all, do you can you flick that guy off your shoulder? Like, that look like for you? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. The anything negative lasts very little. I I I will, I’d say I’m an irrationally competent person sometimes. And I think that anybody that’s great and anything is I don’t think that there’s, like, a, a non competent pro athlete or top performer anywhere. It doesn’t matter what the business is. You have to be so confident in yourself, even if it doesn’t, like, come you don’t want to come off as arrogance. But internally, you have to be like so confident in your abilities, that you are the best and and you are capable of anything. That those negative thoughts will come, but you’re like, yeah, okay. But I’m better than that. And I can push through this or Yep. You can understand why that thought comes, and you can also talk yourself out of, okay. Yeah. This is a thought. This is just a thought. That’s not the Gilliland I think that that’s something I’ve gotten very good at over time is this is a this is a fleeting thought, and feel it for a second and then move on because this is not who you are, and this is certainly not defining you. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think for me, it’s that that, you see, consuming your thought that it, I’ve learned to talk to it, you know, talk to that thought. Like, almost talk trash back to it. You know, Speaker Michael Lombardi: you should deal with things about it a lot. You know? Speaker Brett Gilliland: And it’s like, man, I okay. I got it. Like, I know sun I don’t like small airplanes, and I know I’m gonna be on a smaller airplane Sunday. I’m gonna have some serious anxiety. If I kinda had it through off and on this whole week, but it’s I’ll tell it. Like, look, I know what you’re doing. You’re trying to make me go there and think all these irrational thoughts, this ain’t happening. Right? And it just kinda stop it, man, and go somewhere else. And that’s that’s been really helpful for me over the years. And and continuing on thinking what is there anything right now that’s maybe in the infancy stage for you, but it’s consuming your thinking right now, you know, as a leader, as a as a father, as a husband. I mean, all the things you’re doing. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Oh, yeah. Existential dread, man. That that’s the thing that actually, and I’m not sure you can appreciate this. Like, what if something happens to me? And and I feel like you don’t ever really think about that until you have kids. Maybe some people do think about it earlier, but the reality of something could happen to me and somebody has to take care. There has to be a way to take care of these kids. So I think that that’s the thing that, freaks me out the most. And nothing nothing else wakes me up in the night. Other than that. Of like, what if something happens and have I done everything I can to make sure that my family’s okay. That’s that’s the overarching thing, which is like you have very little control over. And, you know, I’ve worked a lot on not not letting it have too much control because it is, you know, do what you can do, and then you gotta just live. Things that are right now, we’re going through a lot of changes. Like, you know, we we just moved, a month ago, almost two months ago. We have a new baby. So only last three months. New baby, new new house. My son switching schools. She’s potty training. You know, it’s like, man, can we do more? What else can we go on here? And it’s hard. And it’s, you know, what, our our three year old is, like, having a little bit of a tough time. And that that’s really hard on us too, because — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Michael Lombardi: you know, what happens at daycare is not what it’s like at home. And it’s, you know, it’s changes. It if it’s hard, I just literally had this conversation with Sarah downstairs. You know, if you and I are feeling it, like this level of sort of like anxiety and stress. How do you think a three year old who has no ability to regulate his emotions or articulate any of this stuff is doing. Like, he’s he’s doing better than both of us, I think. So, like, you know, That’s that’s the stuff right now. Yeah. It’s like that’s that’s the stuff that I takes up my head space. It’s like, Working is fun and their their opportunities. Whereas, I can’t even say at whoop. Like, I, when I had no kids, we, you know, young professional, like everything’s great. You can go all in. And — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Michael Lombardi: like, you don’t have to care about anything else. And I I believe that, like, having kids has helped me put things in, in place. As you kinda said, he’s like, you’ve got work time and out of work time and and those sort of thoughts. And, it’s really been great to kind of have that shift of, like, there’s work and there’s life. And works necessary for life, and hopefully there’s some cool things in there. But ultimately, like, it’s the relationship just the people and how you treat them and and the joy you bring to other people too. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s it’s funny. So I I don’t know that I’m that much older than you, but, probably am quite a bit older than you, but in in talking about kids and our lives, and mine are seventeen fifteen. In my fifteen year old man, I dropped him off at school today for the last time that I’ll ever drive him to school. I’m like, Speaker Michael Lombardi: really? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So so I used my second one. So my oldest one drives, and he’s seventeen, almost eighteen, almost sixteen, and then, thirteen, and eight. And you know, one of the things I did when I my kids were at your kids’ age, and I don’t know why, but I I thought about, like, the things you thought about too, like, what if I’m not here? You know, they’re gonna get anything that I ever taught them, all that stuff. And so I would find myself sometimes literally just holding the phone while I’m driving. I wouldn’t look at the phone. Right? Gotta be safe. But do a video and talk to the boys, and then send that to, like, a email thing that we have. Like, you know, they didn’t have emails and phones and stuff back in. Right? And so I would make sure there’s a place where they could go watch those videos of what you stand for, man, because we don’t know. I could get hit by the proverbial truck tomorrow. Right? And it’s like — Yeah. — I want them to understand about who they surround themselves with matters. And now, you know, at seventeen and fifteen, they’re probably, Speaker Michael Lombardi: god. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Here he goes again. Right? This But when they’re three in one or three in three months, I mean, they don’t know that stuff. They wanna hear from dad. So just a thought for people that are listening or for yourself, for food for thought. So, this has been awesome, man. Winning is a choice. You agree with that? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Winning is a choice? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Is Speaker Michael Lombardi: it? Who said that? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I don’t know. I’m I’m asking. I’m asking if you think it’s a choice or I because I believe there’s a lot of things that are choices, but is winning a choice. And, anxious see where you go with that. Speaker Michael Lombardi: I don’t think I don’t think that winning is a choice. I think that, what you’re willing to do to win as a choice. Yeah. Let’s say you’re running hill sprints. Like, everybody that’s running it hypothetically wants to win. But how deep are you willing to go? How much are you willing to make your muscles burn? An egg to win. And if it’s not more than everybody else, then you’re probably not gonna win. So I don’t think winning in a winnings the byproduct of the choices that you were willing to make to win. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I I agree with you. I’m glad you said it that way because that that’s what I think where, you know, take Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, we’ll just pick on those guys. You know, there’s six, seven, eight quarterbacks that come in probably all of them, hopefully, think they can. But realistically, there may be six, seven, eight quarterbacks this year that think they can win the Super Bowl. Right? They all think they’re gonna go there. It’s not a choice, man. There’s so much stuff that goes into it, and it’s preparation. It’s how much more are you gonna work on your body, your sleep, all the stuff that we been talking about all day. So I’m glad to hear you say that because I agree. I think if we’re out there running the hill sprints, everybody wants to win, but it’s how much effort you gonna put into it? So we wanna focus on the effort. Right? Part of the circuits of success for the effort. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. And what did you do leading into, you know, those hail sprints were coming. Did you train for that? Like, or did you just, like, hey, I’m good enough to shop? Because you’re you’re probably not. It, like, it works to a point, but if you really wanna take things to the max, you have to, you know, go above and beyond. It’s everything that people don’t see. And just for the quarterback thing, J one Hertz is the best. And the Eagles will accept Super Bowl. So I Speaker Brett Gilliland: love it. That’s great. But he had a hell of a year last year. He’s fun to watch. Speaker Michael Lombardi: I like that. Love that guy. Well, Speaker Brett Gilliland: Working our listeners find more of Mike Lombardi? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Well, if you want lots of, dad and training content, you can follow me on Instagram at Lombardi Michael. We, you know, Rofish and exists still on the on Instagram. If you’re looking for rowing tips, or any of that sort of training stuff so we’ve we actually worked with Harvard’s Women Rolling Team for, like, last six years. Kinda like strength and conditioning consultant training stuff. So, yeah, that was fun. But, yeah, no. You you you find this around? Sarah Sarah Speaker Brett Gilliland: I need to check that Speaker Michael Lombardi: one out. Yes. She is. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And Sarah Speaker Michael Lombardi: is a good follow, at Sarah Henderson. Where you’ll ask you. We’ll get more content from her than you will from me. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I need to get on that rowing when you get some pointers. I mean, I got a rower about four or five months ago, the Peloton rower, and it’s it’s a hard ass workout. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. It’s it’s not easy. That’s that’s the thing. It, people make it look easy. It’s not easy. And No. Yeah. So, hey, you can you can always hit me up after this enrolling. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Alright, man. I will do that. Well, Mike, it’s been awesome having you, man. Thanks for joining me on the Circive Success podcast.

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews two-time Major League Baseball All-Star Trevor Rosenthal. Rosenthal shares his journey to success, emphasizing the importance of hard work and trusting the process. He also talks about the differences between being a starting pitcher and a relief pitcher, his routine and preparation for game day, and his experience playing with Yadi Molina. Rosenthal shares his plans for the next five years, which include completing his Tommy John rehab process and investing in relationships with his family. Full YouTube Video: Unlocking Success with MLB All-Star Trevor Rosenthal   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, got a cardinal player with me, man. I’m fired up. Trevor Rosenthal, what’s going on, my man? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: That’s right. Baseball has in full swing. What’s up, Brad? Thanks for inviting me to come on the show. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Absolutely. Like the old hat lunch there. You got that on your shirt. You got a buddy there. I got a a new, relationship from back in the day. So I get some hats. You get some hats stuff getting made. They’re good stuff. We’re not being paid to say that, we’ll give him a little plug here. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Definitely. It’s a good plug. St. Louis voice through and through. Got a support local Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right, man. That’s right. So, well, you are Trevor Rosenthal. You are a, two thousand and fifteen major league baseball All star. Single saves leader for the cardinals, and what was that? Two thousand fifteen as well for forty eight. Beat my boy Is he there. Didn’t you? You had to beat Is he? What didn’t isn’t that who you beat? Was Jason? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. Scratch him out by just a couple and Lee Smith as well. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Nice. Nice. Two big names for the cardinals. And then, see, yeah, so single saves leader that year. And then two two thousand fifteen, you were the third youngest pitcher with forty plus saves and back to back season man. That was, it was awesome. So fun to watch you. But before we dive into it, being from Lee’s Summit, Missouri, I gotta ask you, were you a Cardinal fan or a Royal fan? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I’d say a little bit of both. There was some great players on both teams, certainly, pool halls or Saint Louis and pretty cool story, actually getting able being able to watch, Carlos Beltran, and also is that growing up in the St. Louis area. Beltran was a teammate, and that two thousand fifteen year, Grinky was an all star game teammate of mine. So pretty surreal experience to have. Now at thirty three years old, I have the young bucks coming up to meet telling me these same stories, and I realized, man, maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned that to Carlos Beltran. I think I probably didn’t Speaker Brett Gilliland: make it Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: feel too young. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. I used to grow up watching you play. So, if you can’t tell us what’s major the man you are today, man. You don’t just, you know, grow up and then become a major league baseball player. There’s a lot there and love to dive into that and start the conversation there. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Oh, yeah. That’s a big question. Definitely has you know, could dive in deep, but I think, you know, it’s fortunate to have great parents, first and foremost, born in Carney, Nebraska, my parents own my dad owned, a restaurant with a business partner in Carney, and watched him work hard and operate that, as a young, young child from age one to Gilliland then at six years old, My dad was about actually my age now, and he decided to go back to law school. Wow. So moved into the Kansas City, Lisa, Missouri area. Back, became an attorney. And, I think a combination of those two things, one being exposed to the farm life, the constant work. I think that that requires then seeing my dad put himself, through a a rigorous course and course work with with education and you should change career paths. Really just rubbed off on me. I think more than anything, grew up as a a normal kid playing sports and eventually had the opportunity to become a professional baseball player and being able to apply that discipline and work ethic that I was that was demonstrated for me as a kid. I applied that to the opportunity I had in the game. Was very he’s very good and paid huge dividends. And he’s, and, yeah, thank you for taking that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I think it’s I’m always fascinated, man, by guys. Like, you didn’t grow up I mean, probably pitched and all that stuff right growing up, but you I know you went to play junior college baseball, I believe. Right? And you were a short stop. And and so Like, how does that conversation go? It’s like, hey, you’re no longer gonna be a short stop, man. You’re moving to a picture. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Conversation is a tough one. As most pitchers will tell you. No one wants to be just a pitcher only. That’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s fun. He got up to the play. It’s fun to hit home runs. I mean, stick a long ball. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Exactly. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: But, yeah, at at a certain point, you can’t hit nine five or you’re swinging at the breaking ball and the dirt over and over again, you might have to take advantage of the powerful right arm at arm. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s awesome. Because I know it wasn’t Jason Mod. Wouldn’t he, catch her, I think, first? I mean, there’s tons of stories, Ankyo, all these guys. It’s, just amazing to me from to get to the level that you guys get to and it wasn’t your main position. It just shows you how athletic you are, and and and again, a mindset, which we’ll talk about. So, So let’s let’s talk about that. So when you when you’re pitching, what’s what’s Trevor Rosenthal mindset on the mound? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. That’s a that’s a it’s a it’s evolving. I think at the end of the day, to sum it all up when you get on the mound, when you get into competition, you have to have some pretty clear and concise thoughts and it starts with confidence. Without confidence, it’s gonna be hard to compete or win at any level, especially against competition is the best in the world at what they’re doing. Yep. My my confidence a lot of times comes from preparation, that has put me in that situation. And then also a mindset of I’m not in an alone. We’re lucky fortunate enough to be in a team sport and have bunch of guys behind me that are are supporting me and really trying to give their best just as I am to have success on that field. So those two things being confident in myself and being confident in the team that that’s behind me. Are are really the clear thoughts. And then from there, you know, we could go down the list that that goes into the preparation of of scouting, and workout, workouts, sleep, diet, all the contributors that go into that preparation. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And and I think what I like now, it seems more than ever. I don’t know if it’s social media or what it is, but you’re finding more and more people focusing on sleep and hydration and, you know, all the things that are so important. Again, whether that’s business or baseball, it is a focus of yours and I’m one of the things I wrote down today is the off season kinda prep versus the in season prep. What was that like? Did that differ for you much? Was it the same? What was that like? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It is a lot different. I think it goes to different stages almost where in the off season, there’s there’s a buildup. We’re trying to really just prepare our body as much as possible. We use that free training phase to continue to build the body, but then also adjusting the mind. To the the season ahead, the challenges that are gonna be ahead. And then throughout the season, it’s a game of adjustments. It’s a game of recognizing the competition, getting their feedback from your results and constantly, adjusting to achieve the goals that you have and ultimate goals winning. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m into that. Taking some notes here, writing something down I thought of. So, so talk about that. So let’s say it’s game day today, you know, the difference between being a starting pitcher and a, relief pitchers, you know, you assume, hopefully, especially the roles you were playing, you’re probably gonna pitch If not every day, you know, you’ll get a day off here and there, but you gotta go with the mindset every day that you’re going in. Right? So so what was that like? You know, it’s It’s 01:10 on a on a Thursday afternoon here, and the game’s not till 07:10. Let’s call it. What’s going on right now for Trevor? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: 01:10. Right now, we have completed the night before. Gilliland end the night with a little recap of how my day went performance wise, maybe make some notes on things that I would like to change or repeat for the following day. So I had a good night’s sleep. Breakfast, a good meal. Are you losing me? Do we cut out? Am I good? Speaker Brett Gilliland: No. I got you. I got you. Sorry. There’s a little delay, but we’re good. I got you. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Okay. Okay. Okay. So right right about 01:00, we’re headed down to the ballpark. Usually, I’m using that time to be on the phone. During the drive with, family friends can take an advantage of that time to catch up and build or maintain some relationships. And then Once we get to the park, it’s, more or less, kind of phone and lock their phone off, and we start the build up for the game. And both of things with, physical physically the body and the mind. I think that’s the difference, the biggest difference of being a professional athlete versus a business leader or, a normal workforce is you have to prepare two things. We’re preparing the body and the mind. And a lot of the time, the how the body feels can affect how the mind feels, and that’s an interesting game that you learn to play. But I’ve learned over the years, the mind is is very powerful. And so a lot of, what what I’ve done and what I’ve learned is to do everything possible to keep that positive mindset and build that momentum and and from the the time I walk in the door and until 07:00 when the first pitch comes is trying to create as much positive momentum as possible and and bring that into that game, mate. Lucky enough to have great teammates that that help with that as well. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, I think it’s too. What’s different is if I come in and have a bad day at work today, they’re not gonna write an article about it. It’s not gonna be all over social media. Right? But you give up the old the old two strike, you know, two out home run, man. Everybody’s gonna be talking about it. And the hell, you know, how’s he do the, you know, all the stuff. Right? And and how much of that do you control that in your mind? Do you think much about it? How do you get through that? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. It’s the good and the bad about playing every single day or being a relief pitcher and having to be available every day is it’s it’s great because you can turn the page and you get a new opportunity, but it’s also bad because, things can start to snowball pretty quickly and not able turn the page and and you’re carrying day to day out with you what happened the night before or what that reporter says. It can really, really get in the way of, it’ll be roadblocks and what you’re trying to accomplish. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah. I, one time mention his name again here. Iseringhausen, he said, you gotta have a short term memory. You know, you gotta be able to turn the page quickly. And so you can’t think about that thing, not not to keep bringing up home runs, but you can’t think about the home run last night because that was last night. Now it’s Thursday night. I gotta go dominate and and become this guy in the mountain. You agree with that? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I agree. And and that’s where the routine, where the preparation is so important. And if you’re able to create enough of that momentum or enough of the routine or enough x y and z habits that that you’re focused on completing a lot of times we hear people talk about falling in love with the process, which I think goes right to right down to what you’re doing to prepare and all those steps that you’re taking. And the the goal is is I wanna clear mine and I want a body that’s ready to perform and if we back up to that 01:00 arrival time, take all the we have we have our time filled all the way up until game time. There’s not you’re not leaving a lot of room for those negative thoughts. And think that’s really important, for anybody and and certainly negative emotions, we’re gonna weigh you down and and that’s you get that feeling of being stuck or you can’t have the, you know, you’re going backwards. You never really been able to stay in one spot. You’re either going forward or you’re going back and when you understand that or you operate in a place where you have that belief. Much more beneficial to keep rolling forward than keep going back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So do you what was the goal planning process like for you? Did you I mean, like, take two thousand fifteen, for example, All Star forty eight saves for the year, single season record for the cardinals. Like, do you sit down the season and say, I wanna have x amount of saves or is it more of, again, you talk about passion for the process. Is it more of that and then the results just happen? What was it like? Yeah. That’s Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I’ve done both. I’ve I was fortunate, early on in my career for whatever reason, was into journaling, was into goal setting and and just taking actually recording them and writing them down and having specific goals and and reverse engineering on how to get there. And I’ve done, both ways where I’ve written down statistics that I would like to achieve. But I found more than anything, the the goals that helped me to get where I wanted to go were were based on more things that I could control. A big big one. I would say number one most of the time was just being a great teammate. And for whatever reason, it it it translated into taking pressure off of myself or when I showed up every day was I was focused more on the energy and and the things that I could do to help help the guy sitting next to me or the things that I could learn from a veteran player that he was sharing with me. And that was a big part of building my confidence and building I guess the opportunities to be successful. And then from there, it was, you know, talking about work ethic and I understood that if I really showed up every single day and didn’t focus on the the feedback or, I guess, I guess, more results that I was getting positive or negative, I showed up every day and just truly worked diligently. Worked hard at what I was doing. I could trust whether or not I was successful or not that I I really just gave all that to have it. And those were the two things that I decided I willing to go to the gray volume. I can look myself in the mirror at the end of my career, at the end of the season, and understand that I at least did those two Gilliland I’m gonna be able to sleep well tonight. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s a big deal. Put in the effort, man. The effort matters. What when you think about you know, those habits and Gilliland let’s even talk more now today. What what are the things that are no mis items? You know, if I followed you around with the camera, What am I gonna see day in and day out that Trevor Rosenthal doing then and now? So I’m sure some of them are still the same. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. Wow. That’s that’s So many things. I’m I’m big on big on nutrition. I think nutrition’s important. I don’t know if that I’m not supposed to say not Gilliland any type of order, just what’s coming to my mind. Yeah. You’re gonna you’re gonna see a guy who who takes care of himself. He eating Gilliland sleeping well, prioritizing. My physical health is gonna be something that you’re you’re gonna see. I think going back to being a good teammate is being respectful, treating people the way I would wanna be treated and bringing positivity into every situation no matter what it is. And then from there, I think continuing to learn, being a student of life, of the game of all things that I’m involved in, and especially profession or careers. I I’ve always wanted to keep a mindset that I’m new and I’m I’m just learning and I have a lot to learn and a long ways to go. So I I’ve been active in continuing to read books or seek out information from individuals. So and and and count down the road before me. Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I love that. So who would you say some of your mentors are now? And, you know, in the past, you know, even before professional sports were their mentors during right now, you know, in the future, like who do you see there? Do you go to for advice now? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: You have been so lucky to have so many great mentors growing up. There were multiple former professional players, athletes that had read some of that Gilliland into, in to my everyday training that I was able to build upon. And then, man, being in a in an organization like the St. Louis cardinals, there’s you’re just surrounded by just high character individuals, but then you’re talking about Jason Iseringhouse, and then these guys who are wearing the red jackets, they do such a good job of keeping them in the organization, keeping them involved. And those guys just wanna give back, and they they wanna be a source. And so I’m so thankful for all of them. All of those guys pointing in to me. But one guy that that has really stood out more than anybody was, Matt Holiday. Matt was a teammate of mine for majority of my time in Saint Louis, him and his wife Leslie are amazing people. And he, for whatever reason, so took went out of his way to take me under his wing and kinda put his arm around me from day one and make sure that very minimum, he was shining a light on the path for me to to follow. And it was up to me to follow or listen, but, Yeah. Matt’s had an incredible career and a tremendous impact on and off the field. So I’m fortunate that that there were guys like that, Matt, and The cardinal’s organization, leather jacket wears, even all the way down to, managers that I had in the minor leagues that we’ll never really know their names. Those guys really had a strong impact on myself and a lot of my teammates. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Let’s let’s dig more into that holiday relationship. I mean, we talk about this at work. It’s values alignment. Right? I mean, I think you guys probably my experience is, you know, you’ve always got a smile on your face. He’s he’s an uplifting guy. I’ve been around him a couple times, and he seems you know, to be very positive and thinking big and doing the things you wanna do. You get your Christian values together. Right? So, I mean, I think the values alignment is what sticky. Would you agree with that? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I would. And it’s interesting because we come from very different backgrounds, but but we do. We did bond over a lot of Gilliland I think, aside from our faith and and just walking a little bit different way than, you might expect from a a superstar or top prospects. Walking with a little bit more humbleness and a desire to serve more than you receive, think we’ve really bonded over over work ethic and Gilliland. And I think he saw that in me at an early age, and I certainly saw that in his Ronnie forearms. When I first met him. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Could break you in half. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Oh, he would. He it was impressive. I was lucky. We we actually were able to train together in the off seasons in Saint Louis for multiple years. And, man, what a what a great athlete and specimen of a month or he he is. Now I I I had a hard time keeping up, but I’m trying to find other ways that I could maybe edge out. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right. How cool is that for his son, man, to be the number one pick in the Major Lake baseball draft? That’s just phenomenal. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. I was thinking about this the other day. We like I said, Matt’s been a huge influence, and we actually have the same, baseball agent. And we were talking about Matt’s involvement in my career and other player’s career and how how much he’s helped out and and really what I was thinking is is you know, Matt, if you listen at the middle, you just listen to Matt and does what he tells you, you’re gonna be alright. You’re gonna Whatever whatever you whatever happens, you’re gonna be okay. He’s not gonna run you astray. I think a testament to that is nothing better than your own son. As a dad, you have a tremendous amount of influence over your children and to see the success that Jackson is having now. I think is a testament to how great of a a leader, Matt, how it is. So you Speaker Brett Gilliland: think we’ll see him in the big leagues soon. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I yeah. I mean, it’s a it’s a tough industry, but he seems to be taking it in stride at a young age. Seems like it’s just a matter of time at this point. But it’d be exciting. I’ll I’ll I’ll be there. I told Matt, I’m like, let me know when you when you get that call because I wanna be there. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Jump on the first plane and be there. So let’s talk about some of your your best moments in baseball, man. That’s, you know, obviously you’ve been around some big games. You were a stud in the, two thousand thirteen world series as well. So, like, is that the pinnacle? Like, what what was some of the best moments you’ve had in your baseball career? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s so hard. They’re also amazing. Another question that I’ve I’ve played nothing out of eight or nine times now eight or nine different organizations, you know, a common question is, you know, what’s your favorite stage, stadium, what’s your favorite team, your favorite moment, And when you’re in the major leagues, I mean, that’s just such a dream come true. They’re all amazing. Your debut to getting the first call, making a world series appearance, an all star game appearance, really every day that you get to show up and walk in that locker room is is pretty thrilling and hard not to appreciate. So it’s it’s very difficult for me to pick one out. And, I think as I just continue to reflect and and also, you know, just continuing to work and move forward and and seeing what future opportunities look like for me and my career. Just appreciative of of of of just that of the opportunities and that’s such a such a thrilling highlight even to be having a conversation like this today and reflecting on so many amazing moments, that I’ve been able to be a part of. I mean, nothing that I would have dreamed of as a as a kid that I would have called Carlos Beltran, Matt Holiday, Godier, Melina, my goodness, being able to throw a baseball to him over and over again. What a Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s crazy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: what a thrilling time, for me and me to have in this life’s life. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. You know, it’s funny. I just was having this I just gotta have a business lunch and somehow, the person knew. So Yadi was my neighbor for years. And, you know, I told a funny story. I said, you know, most of the time you go and your kids, they go to birthday parties and they walk out. They got like bubbles and like, you know, gum and some candy and like a nice little bag. You know, my wife always makes nice bags for kids when they leave when they were kids were Gilliland it was different at Yati’s house. Man, you’d leave the birthday parties and you’d walk out with like an autograph baseball. From Yadi or Molina. Or, you know, he was, and during the season, you know, summer league baseball for the kids. It was tough, but off season, he’d during off days, he’d be at the game and all of a sudden, there’d be two hundred people watching our little seven year olds play baseball together. But, you know, you watch a guy like that, man. And and it’s incredible to see even when he was out with little kids on what he was teaching them. And and so my I tell those stories because he’s an amazing guy, but what was it like when you’re pitching to yada or Molina? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. There’s Elite competitor, obviously, the talent is on another level, but, the work ethic was second to none. Better than he was a second tonight. There was a very eye opening moment. It actually happened in my major league debut. Have given up a hit, a walk, maybe runners on first and second, and, you know, my heart’s racing, excited. You know, like nothing I had ever experienced in my life, making your major league debut. I remember stepping off the mound, getting the ball back, and actually Rafael for Paul was our short stop. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yep. I remember very vividly him just encouraging me and and just, you know, typical attaboy. Like, let’s get baseball type of lingo. But with this deeper sense of of passion and and just coming from a place where it’s like, okay, this is like yachty, yachty, you know, Rafael Frecall, a story baseball player, a veteran, he’s achieved. All these amazing milestones, he’s towards the end of his career, and I’m just beginning mine. And I have the support of this guy. I mean, It it was just what it just filled me with a with a flame. And yachty was the same way. And I think from that day forward, under standing that as hard as I was working on the mound as much preparation and sacrifice and discipline I had put in to give myself that opportunity or to take advantage of that opportunity, Yadi was behind the plate doing the same thing, if not more. Wanting the same amount or if not more success for me is. Yeah. Man, what a what a teammate to have? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Did you ever shake him off? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s so funny. He’s, so short answer. Yes. Long answer. I don’t know if this is the doc down. I’m sure it has, but yachty had this on on a couple occasions, depending on how the game was going. Usually, it was a lot sided and things weren’t going well. But he if you if I’ve seen him do this multiple times once to me, but if you shook him off too many times, he would give you he wouldn’t give you a pitch sign. He would just give you like a just throw it. Just whatever you want. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, wow. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: And, I mean, amazing, right? You’re talking about some pitchers throwing a hundred miles an hour and Wayne wright type curveballs and man, the guy had no fear. He was he was he was he’s a special special individual. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So it’s probably his way though as well to say, alright. Dude, you think you got it all figured out? Just come on. Bring it. I’m not gonna make I’m not gonna make the call. You you you think you got it figured out. Bring it. Right? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. And, yeah, there was times where I shook him off and, you know, he came out to the man to talk to me and we would settle on, on something, but It’s interesting that that question comes up so often because it gives an illusion that yachty has a stubbornness or, know it all kind of mentality. And and it’s really nothing of that of that nature. I think it stems more from competitiveness. And and if he understands that as a pitcher, you have a reason for what you’re doing or if he sees the work that you’re doing and you develop relationship. There’s no, like, presumed, I guess, I guess, outside animosity that actually taking place. He’s, truly just just wanting what’s best in that situation to help somebody. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I thought it was just so cool a couple years ago that I think it was a young guy on Houston, I think it was. Right? He tried to pick him off at first, and the guy got back there. Did you see that? And then he’s like, you know, he takes his helmet. I was like, here. Go. Go to second. Try me, man. I know I’m late in my career and the guy on a change up throws it down to second, guns him. And he just walks off. I’m like, dude’s a badass. It’s pretty amazing. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: And there’s so many of those moments, I mean, I mean, that’s what’s amazing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s awesome. So you talked about, you played, I think you said seven or eight teams. What, I mean, what was it like playing for the cardinals? I mean, having the birds on the bat compared to the these other teams. Not to knock any other teams, of course, but what was it like playing with the cardinals? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. I think I mean, it’s different. I definitely cardinal organization at a spe in a special place in my heart. It was drafted by the cardinals. Came up through the minor leagues, debuted, and add a ton of career success and highlights that happen, with the birds on the bat. So, it’s tough to compare really anything else to that. I will say as I gone through different organizations and matured in the game, matured as a person. It’s been very enjoyable to learn the ins and outs, especially on the business side and and how different organizations, implement, development, talent development, scouting development, All these different pieces that go into the game that you don’t necessarily see or understand as a young player. Difference from organization to organization. Right. A lot of them. You can see why they might not have as much success as an organization might say. Yeah. Same does things a certain way and when you hear the card in a way, that is something that, stems from A lot of those guys that we’ve talked about, they’ve they’ve passed along the tradition of winning and culture that has a way of of reading that type of success that’s expected. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, let’s hope we get back on that, on that winning train. Right? It’s been a it’s been a tough season for the cardinals to say the least. So, last couple of questions here, man, that call to the minors. What was your or to the majors from the minors. What was that like? Was that a special moment? Obviously, it’s a special moment, but, pretty cool story there. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Very cool story. Actually, I was so I was in AA, which is rare to get the call from your AA. Manager to come up to the maintenance. Okay. My wife was actually in town. We had just gotten married in the off season before. My wife was in town. I was a starting pitcher at the time. And in between starts, you have different duties. My duty that day was to be in the stands with the radar gun charging pitch speeds for armpitcher for the opposing pitcher. And my wife had surprised me to come in town, so she was sitting. I may always get her sit, like, couple seats away or a road back to make it you know, like, I’m I’m here to work in, but we can we can talk a little bit in between innings. And so, the game goes by. Manager calls me into the off office after the game. And going into that office, I was certain I was in trouble for talking to my wife during the game, which is the most I wrote a part of the situation. But it gives me the call. It gives me the information. It tells me I’m going up to the big leagues, and I’m able to my wife’s there, so we’re able to celebrate it’s an amazing moment. It’s not completely unexpected, which was really cool. And then being young and and having an opportunity that, I mean, you just every child, every young ball player dreams are coming to the major league, but I tell that story because I think that mindset of that I had of thinking I was in trouble. I mean, that’s been from, me understanding, like, you know, this opportunity I have is so special and, I expected that that opportunity. So much. I respected the organization. I didn’t wanna do anything to ever hurt that. You know, other than having bad performance on my field. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I think that really helped me as I gotten some major leads and continued have success, I think it it helped me to stay focused and not get distracted by, a lot of the other things that come along with being a major league baseball player. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you get the call, you get, so I guess you were, what, in Springfield, Missouri at that time, or where were you at? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. Springfield, Missouri, Hammond, Parkfield, a great place to play baseball baseball baseball. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you’re so you get the call. So then you physically getting like a vehicle. You’re you and your wife getting a, you know, got a bag and you you head up to Saint Louis and and you you park, you walk in. I mean, what is that like? You walk in that major league locker room for the first time. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. Now today after ten years of major league service, it seems normal. But at that time, Speaker Brett Gilliland: But that first one, right, you’re walking in there. There’s, you know, I guess pool halls would have been gone at that time. Right? But then you got Yadi and Wayneo and these guys. And so what’s that like? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s just everything at that level is just so big. Just the locker room, you know, the the food that’s available is ten times what you have in the minor leagues. The the uniforms are always pressed and clean to perfection everything in your lockers everything, from the the visceral experience to having the interviews. You have these big cameras with microphones and quarters and suits and lights. You know, you go from playing in a stadium with a single deck of seats to a stadium now that has has three decks of seats. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: There’s all these things, like I said, that seem normal now because I’ve gotten accustomed to it, but I remember at twenty two years old, walking into this, and it’s just, I mean, an incredible rush of adrenaline to understand. Okay. Like, there’s people actually showing up to come see me play per se. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, and also too, I gotta think, you know, I’m in the money business. So you gotta think that first time you look at your bank your checking account after, you know, probably playing baseball for a month versus the minor league double a what you get paid. It’s like holy crap. Like, this is the real deal. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: That was a cool, experience too that I, I kind of forget about, but, because I I was drafted twenty first round. Didn’t have a big signing, but I, so I never really seen commas in a check before. And, when when you get called up and you sign your your major league contract that they’re selecting, there’s all I guess, all the legal that goes into that, but it actually took place just in the equipment room and the laundry room next to the dryer with, with the traveling Secretary, but I remember looking down and seeing the amount that I was gonna be paying the thinking Oh, like, you know, I’m I’m good. Like, I made it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. Yeah. Now I get the pension to ten years. All that stuff is beautiful, man. Congrats. So, what’s what’s the focus, man? What’s the next five years hold for you? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah, that’s so going through a rehab right now of, Tommy John actually hurt my elbow the first day of this season, which with Detroit. So I have about a twelve month recovery process on that. And I really just, at this point, taking it day by day, and going back to a lot of those fundamentals. Like we talked about earlier, where I’m taking care of myself, making sure physically mentally, you know, taking moving the ball forward continually every single day, and that will eventually lead to me completing this rehab process. How my body’s feeling, what my performance looks like. And then, if I wanna pursue opportunities to continue to keep playing at that point, then also continuing to learn, reading books, taking a online class here and there to continue to expand our challenged myself, I think, more than anything. I really enjoy that. And then, being a dad, enjoying my family, my wife, and kids, That’s something that is, you know, it’s it’s very rewarding and as much as rewarding as it is to be a professional and to have the compensation and the rewards that come along with being a high achiever. Nothing that compares to the limited amount of time that we have to be dads and then to invest in relationship with with the spouse. House. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Best job in the world, man. Well, Trevor Rosenthal has been a complete honor to have you, man. It’s been awesome. Loved watching your career with Saint Louis, and, we’ll continue to watch your career. And, so I hope that arm gets healed up and get you back on the mound, and, we’ll see you out there. But, working on listeners to find more of you. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. We’ve been posting some more content. Recently on the x platform, formerly Twitter. Instagram is a great place. I try and be active on both of those. Mediums and, yeah, would love to interact with anybody that you’d like to follow. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think you got a new logo you made too, didn’t you? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. The boys at Hat Launch again. Shameless bug, but they helped me out putting together a logo, and I’ve been sporting it recently. I’ve actually had a lot of really cool feedback and people who are friends and family that would like to be involved with that. So maybe there’s something there. Maybe there’s a business in the future. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And what’s the goal with that? You know, is there anything with that? Or is it just because it’s cool or are you gonna do something with it? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I think at this point, it’s more or less, doing the things that Matt Holiday did for me. I have a lot of earned experience in the game and and in life and to share that. If one thing helps one person, it was all for it. But, you know, the brand and the social media stuff. That’s just today’s today’s world. And so, trying to figure it out just like everybody Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like it, man. Just feedback for you. I love seeing that, you know, the workouts and just, you know, it then it inspires me. Alright. I gotta go that next mile, man. I gotta do a harder workout today. When you see that type of stuff. So I appreciate you doing it all, man. And it’s been awesome having you on the Circive Success, brother. Thanks for being with me.  

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Kristen Holmes, the VP of Performance Science at Whoop. Kristen shares her impressive resume and discusses the importance of tracking and understanding stress levels, nasal breathing, and circadian alignment. She emphasizes the importance of taking control of our lives and making choices that will benefit our future selves. Lastly, Kristen talks about Legacy Expeditions, a company owned by former special operations members that attempts to skydive into all seven continents in seven days to raise money for Folds of Honor. Tune in for recommendations on stress management and different tips to improve your overall health! Kristen Holmes // Circuit of Success Full Video   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland today I’ve got Kristen Holmes with me, the VP of Performance Science at Woop. Whoop. It’s awesome to have you. How are you today? Speaker Kristen Holmes: I’m doing great. Thank you so much. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Sorry for the technical difficulties we had there, but, we’re we’re at, you know, Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. If that’s all we have to be challenged with today, we’re we’re doing alright. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right. You’re exactly right. Well, you, have an amazing, resume, and, I’m gonna read just a little bit of this stuff just so our our listeners get a a little gist of who you are, but I think it’s really cool going back even to, even before this, what I have here in college, you were a three time all American, two time big ten athlete of the year at the University of Iowa. Makes my cousin Brad happy. He said, I finally I’d I sent him this this morning. He said, you finally got some talent on there, you know, humor soon. Speaker Kristen Holmes: The Speaker Brett Gilliland: competing in both Field Hockey and Basketball of two thousand twenty one University of Iowa Hall of Fame and Ducki, seven year member of the US National Field Hockey team, one of the most successful coaches in Ivy League history, twelve league titles in thirteen season in a national championship at Princeton, You have an MIT, sloan, artificial intelligence certificate in MA from psychology and sports performance, and bachelor’s of political science from Iowa, you are a PhD candidate, and you’re just serving the world. It’s amazing what you are doing. So thanks for being with us. My question for you, Kristen, if you can, we’re gonna start off kind of a big wide question is what has helped make you the woman you are today? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Oh, I think, probably being, really introspective about the things that I care about and and what I wanna think about, how I wanna apply my attention, and just ensuring that I’m creating outlets for those things. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: You know, so I think it’s and then, you know, from a micro perspective, just ensuring that those things that I say care about you know, my behaviors are laddering up to that. And I think that for me, that has just been a very simple framework I think from a very young age that I’ve just tried to apply consistently. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: And and I I think, you know, how you get to that is is definitely through awareness and introspection. And I just don’t know how we can as human beings, like, I I don’t know There there might be other paths, but I I think, you know, taking the time to really understand how we want to apply our effort and and the things that we wanna think about is is just, like, such a core stepping stone to, like, leading of flourishing kind of happy life. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And and so, obviously, you don’t just show up to University of Iowa and do all the things you did. So your upbringing was a big part of Did do you think did your parents focus a lot on the outcome or more on the effort that you were putting in as an athlete? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I think you’re losing some process versus outcome, and as a coach, this is something that I think, I, thought about a ton as a coach and as an athlete. And, you know, I would say that’s because there’s real nervous system implications, to each, which we can certainly talk about. But, I would say my my parents, were really just, like, let me my thing. I mean, my dad, my, my, my dad played football in Nebraska, you know, a, a big time athlete himself, and I think he really pushed my brother, to play football, and my brother ended up quitting in seventh grade. And my, you know, brother’s a few years older than I am, and and I think that, like, really crushed my dad’s soul And I I think, like, so when it came to me, he just kinda let me do my thing. And so but I was, I think, always I was just really a a driven kid. And I had, you know, a pretty tough household growing up. You know, my mom was, just she struggled with alcohol. Her whole life had a lot of mental health issues, so my dad traveled a lot. So, you know, I was I was pretty unsupervised, to be honest. And, you know, I just I found team sports as, just an unbelievable home, you know, where I could be with other folks and, you know, other other kids, you know, coaches. Yeah. It was really, like, my outlet. And So I was always, you know, honest many teams as I could, you know, that would take me and, that I could that I could, you know, walk to or, you know, find rides to. And, yeah, so I I think from for for me, you know, my I don’t know that my my parents really kind of, had a lot of influence in terms of process versus outcome. But I do know that, you know, regardless of how I played, you know, especially as I got older and it was really competing at higher levels, didn’t matter how many goals I scored, how many, you know, baskets I had. Like, you know, it’s it was, my dad always you know, love me unconditionally, and, you know, never seemed to place, you know, my my worth on on my performance that said, I did. And it took me a long time to understand that and unravel it and start to, not think about my self worth in the context of my performance levels. And this was probably one of the harder, you know, when I think about my early adulthood, this is probably one of the the hardest things I had to work through. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It it’s it’s, but don’t you think that also that that hard being hard on ourselves that maybe there there was fear, maybe there was just that pressure, maybe it was just that desire to be great. Like, don’t you think that matters though too? I mean, you gotta want it. Right? You gotta wanna you gotta go take it to the next level. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. But I I think understanding our motivations though is really is important. You know, like, you know, what what is driving me? You know, am I running from something? Am I running to something? Am I motive by motivated by emotions of trust? Am I motivated by emotions of fear? Know, they have two very different, impacts on our physiology, on our, you know, on our brain. Of course, those are interrelated. So I think getting to a, a place where you’re you’re motivated by by trust and and you’ve got I think, and there’s, I think, some purity in in in those motivations. I I think that is kind of a sustainable framework, whereas I think operating out of fear, will come at a cost, eventually. And it’s gonna through your head in in a way that probably aren’t gonna be proud of. So I I think understanding the the root of emotions and and trying to and I guess a a very simple example, you know, in my motivated by motivated by, you know, a fear emotion, fear based motion would be, you know, jealousy, for Gilliland and, you know, kind of some of those social comparisons that can, that can come forwards, or am I motivated by you know, love of the sport and and just a a passion for the technical aspects of the sport or you know, trying to solve like a problem. You know, so I I think understanding those motivations, I think, are are really important, in terms of, just from a health, a mental health perspective. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So if if we can, let’s dive into your day. I mean, obviously, super busy the work that you were all doing at Woop, and and we’ll dive into Woop here in a second. But if we can talk to us about what’s a typical day, like, you. I know there’s no probably typical day, but the the no — Yeah. — the no mis habits that we’re seeing that Kristen’s doing day in and day out. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. So I guess I’ll talk about today. You know, I woke up at at 6AM. I’m really lucky I have a a track right by my house. Yeah. 6AM, crushed about, I don’t know, I guess, eight ounces of of element. Yeah. So it’ll salt my water. And then hit the track and and I ran, I don’t know, four or four hundreds, eight, two hundreds, and ten, one hundreds, and did, some core work, some mobility, jog back home, had a protein shake, showered, got in the car with my son, drove him to, the New England junior championships playing, in the p the the New England junior PGA championship — Much. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Kristen Holmes: today at Stow acres. Yeah. So get some car time with my boy and, yeah, I dropped him off and then just headed into work. So I I work in Boston, and Yeah. I think one of the things that I’m I’m working on, you know, as we kind of are back in the office is just, thinking about my movement throughout the day. You know, I might have crushed a workout this morning, but, you know, that sedentary behavior is, like, crushing on on health, and there’s more research kinda coming around there. So, yeah, just making sure that I’m, you know, using my standing desk and moving around the office. Enough throughout the day. But, but, yeah, we’ll get to think about all sorts of cool problems today. Gonna give a little lecture to the data science steam on physiology. So I’m kind of pumped for that. Yeah. And then, Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what will be in that what’s in that lecture today? So what was so what are you talking about with this team. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. So so just so basics of of physiology, so just kind of understanding, some of the core components. So, you know, what is homeostasis? You know, why is physiology research interesting? Gilliland, you know, why do we care about it at whoops or just kind of helping people understand the research aspect of of some of the things that we do here here at whoop And then really just kind of, using the the, obviously, we’re physiological monitoring device. Right? So, data science team is is building our algorithms so and a lot of those folks don’t have backgrounds necessarily in physiology. So what we’re trying to do is just, you know, give them a basic understanding so kind of a science of whoops, so really thinking about physiology through the lens of a boop, you know, across sleep, strain, recovery. So they can kind of understand, Alright. How do how do certain behaviors, drive, you know, your internal status? So your ability to kind of maintain homeostasis or adapt to stimulus. You know, there are definitely, you know, behaviors that we’re driving people towards that will help them, be able to adapt to stress in, a more functional way. And that’s really core to kind of what we’re we do at Woop. Right? We wanna give people information so they resurface data that helps them understand how they’re adapting to stimulus. And, you know, am I adapting in a functional way? So that is is, you know, the demands, of my of the body of the organism. You know, am I am I kind of, enabling, am I living in a way that allows me to kind of match my the demand of my environment. So kind of understanding that connection, or or their mismatches, you know, and what does non functional kind of adaptation look like? So, yeah, so that’s kind of Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Kristen Holmes: what the, yeah, the presentation was Speaker Brett Gilliland: So if you can, give us, give our listeners just the the whoop commercial if you of what is a whoop. Obviously, I wear it, it’s my sleep, my recovery, my strain, you know, stress. All those great things, but give us give us the whoop from the inside What’s that commercial and and what is a wheel? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s a twenty four seven physiological monitor device. We’re aiming to kind of coach you toward behaviors that will help you control the trajectory of your health. That’s really what we’re after. Like, we wanna help you, Brett, understand your physiology better so you can, make choices that will, allow you to be more present in, in your life and give you more energy, and, and ultimately, I think live your values kinda to go back to the very first thing that we talked about. Like, you know, it’s all about, like, do I have the energy and and the the presence and the attention, to be able to, do the things that I care about in my life. And really I think that’s that’s our kind of our core mission. It’s not a watch. So there’s no watch face. It’s, and as a result, we’re able to put all of our computational power into kind of, the fidelity of of collecting every single heartbeat you know, at a at a beautiful sampling rates, industry kind of standard. So as a result, our underlying data is really, really good and enables us to build features that help you understand, how your you know, how you’re sleeping, how you’re recovering, and the kind of, what type of load you’re putting on your body. We help you understand your stress so we have this really cool new feature, called the stress monitor that helps you understand your your stress throughout the day. So this is non activity stress, so not the stress from my track workout, but the stress that, I’m incurring in other aspects, parts of my day. And we have a strength trainer feature. So, where we can actually quantify the neuromuscular load, of your of your workout and feed that into our recovery and and also kind of help you get credit for those those strength training workouts, which is always kind of a pain point for our members because It’s very cardiovascular, you know, our strain score is very cardiovascular. And as a result, you know, I do a track workout. I get a twelve strain. But I go into the gym and I feel like I crush myself in, you know, a similar kind of way, but I only get a seven, and that has always been a little bit of a pain point But now that we can actually measure your neuromuscular kind of, load and and effort, we’re able to actually, quantify that and kind of give you, commensurate credit, for that. And and I think most importantly kind of help you understand how you’re recovering from that load. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I I love the stress monitor. I just this on a podcast the other day I was talking about and actually pulled it up during a podcast where sometimes people are like, oh my gosh, I gotta be you know, this person was live in the studio with this and it’s, you know, I’m it’s it’s nerve wracking. It it could be all this stuff. Right? You could think that’s a high stress situation. But when I pulled it up to prove a point and when I’m doing this with clients as well, I was, like, at a point eight on the stress meter. Wow. Which is low. Right? Which for me and correct me if I’m wrong here, but that tells me that I’m doing something that I love to do. Right? I’m in line my values. I love sitting with my clients. I love sitting in the podcast learning. Like, that’s a big deal versus something else that could be super stressful. Then I can go back throughout my day and look, where was my stressful moments? Get more of that on my calendar or less of that on my calendar. Is that a fair way to be using that? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I think that’s a a beautiful story. And and yeah. I mean, I think if we how we perceive stress is really, really important. And it’s gonna impact our physiology. It’s gonna impact our heart. Right? If I perceive that stress to be good, you know, I am gonna that stress will maybe it could look the same on the graph. As if I perceive it bad, but my ability to recover from that stress is, likely gonna be better than if that if I perceive that stress to be bad. So there’s kind of that component that I think is interesting and important for people to understand lots of science behind that. But I think the other thing too, Brad, is like you it also might speak to just your fitness level too. So, you know, what might be kind of even if someone was doing exactly the same thing. Well, so let’s say you and I, we’re both, like, loving what we’re doing right now. Like, this conversation’s, like, super excited and it’s it’s aligned with, like, what we value. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m at a I’m at a point three right now. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of that is just, is your comfort level in the setting is, yeah, the alignment, right, like you’re just fully aligned. You have a really good baseline fitness you know, some people are gonna rev higher just because they’re not as fit. Right? So, so yeah, I think there’s like a lot of things kind of happening probably that, give you that low stress. But but, yeah, I mean, generally speaking, like, you know, and you have a green recovery today. So your body is, like, really primed to adapt to all sorts of different types of stimulus today, including kind of the cognitive, stimulus. And there is no question that, you know, if you’re living your values, you know, your behaviors are, you know, aligned with what you say you care about, and you’re incorporating you know, different modes of of exercise and you’re, you know, keeping your heart healthy. You are gonna have a lower stress score. And the other thing that we see correlate with kind of your daytime stress is, is how you sleep at night. So if you have really so if your perception and this is just like we need to do like a proper studies. So this is just anti data, but it seems that if you perceive stress bad and you’ve got really bouncy, high stress throughout the day, you know, unmanaged stress that will rear its head in sleep. So when you look at your stress monitor, you wanna have a really flat sleep. Like, you wanna have really low sleep. So that’s something to kinda keep an eye out for. And I noticed for me, when I am not incorporating my breath work. And when I talked about my day, movement’s important, and also kind of getting in just 05:30 seconds, five sets or reps, I guess, of of thirty seconds of of breathing. I try to do that throughout the day to kind of mitigate that negative stress accumulation. So I think if we’re if we’re not managing stress throughout the day proactively, it can rear its head in sleep, and that’s definitely you know, a relationship that we see on stress monitors Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. — is kind of unmanaged daytime stress, and and kind of how bouncy your sleep is. Speaker Brett Gilliland: K. That and that’s I love the awareness of that. So that that’s helpful. And and so maybe somebody that doesn’t wear a whoop yet, well, hopefully they’ll all go buy a whoop right now. Right? That’s right. You’ll buy this. It’s just a monthly fee and you get an unbelievable amount of data. And I what I love is I was just with a guy, golfing in a in a charity golf term on Monday, and he was wearing So, you know, we spent, you know, an hour probably throughout the day talking about whoop, which is great. Speaker Kristen Holmes: I mean, Speaker Brett Gilliland: he doesn’t do the journal. I’m like, dude, you gotta do the journal. I’m like, the the monthly stuff you get at the end of the month. Just tell me what what helps my sleep, what hurts it, what helps my recovery, what doesn’t. But for somebody that doesn’t listen, or doesn’t and I’m sorry, doesn’t wear a woot that talk about that breathing thing. Like, how important is that throughout your day? I can’t track it because I don’t wear one, but if I did, what’s that doing for me? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. You know, it’s it’s it’s such a, I suppose simple intervention, and I and I think what’s really powerful about our breath is it’s always with us, you know, and and we can kind of be, you know, make conscious choices of around how we breathe for the most part. You know, I think we wanna try to nasal breathe as often as possible. So if you kinda notice yourself walking around with your mouth open in not talking or eating, close your mouth. And I think, you know, there are, like, it’s tape that you can wear over your mouth. Let me Speaker Brett Gilliland: give me one of my questions. Speaker Kristen Holmes: So, yeah, which can be super helpful when you’re trying to build a habit. You know, my son, and my daughter both you know, had to were kind of mouth breathers. And, and, yeah, so taping the mouth when they’re just watching a TV show or on, you know, or doing homework or whatever. But I think becoming an out of nasal breather is very, very important, and a very strong relationship between, cardiovascular health and, your ability to sleep at night. So managing kind of breath throughout the day is very, very important. So you wanna become a nasal beater. And then, I think on top of that, we wanna make sure that and and this is related, but, slightly different. We wanna make sure that we’re, I guess, with every bout of kind of stress that we incur over the course of the day. So let’s say, you know, even though we both perceive this as as good stress, we still need to recover from it. Right? So, you know, after the session doing, you know, thirty seconds of, you know, slow paced breathing, is a great way to, kind of deactivate the nervous system. Right? So even though your stress is really low right now, you’re still, like, slightly at more activated than you would, maybe, in another scenario, right, where you’re not engaged in, like, thinking and, so you wanna just make sure that over the course of the day, you’re having these activated moments, which is awesome and important. And then you’re mapping it with appropriate levels of deactivation. So we’re talking about it from an autonomic nervous system perspective. Right? So if you’re constantly activated, Right? And not mapping that activation with moments of deactivation, you end up building stress. And and these are just kind of acute moments, but they end up being kind of, they end up becoming kind of it becomes more chronic stress, right, if we’re not it. Right? We our body can only, manage activation for so long. So, you know, mapping that activation with moments of of deactivation, the thirty seconds of just, a shorter inhale extended exhale. You can do in through the nose, out through the mouth, or in through the nose, out through the nose, you know, for thirty seconds, you know, four or five times a day will actually go a long, long way to helping mitigate that negative stress accumulation, and most important help you fall asleep and stay asleep at night. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. See, I love this because, you know, I talk a lot about meditation. That that really helped me get through a I’m a very I was. Still am. Very anxious person. Lot of nerves. Right? But the, meditation changed my life. I mean, it literally changed my life of being able to look at anxiety as a ally as a friend, it’s probably never gonna go away, but now how to control it. But I’ve also learned, you know, when I’m in stressful situations, just may maybe you’re in a meeting. Is that breathing part is you can, quote, unquote, meditate or breathe, you know, and lower that heart rate in a meeting, right, without somebody even knowing. That you’re doing that. And I think it’s just so critically important. I love hearing you talk about it. And because we we take it for granted. Right? We wake up. We’re breathing. We go to sleep, we’re breathing. And middle of the night, we’re breathing. It’s like you just do it. But the more you consciously focus on it, the better it is and the better you can perform throughout your day. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. And and I think it’s just, under it’s, I think, underrated as, like, such an important, like, key to help. You know, it’s, like, it it’s the buried entry is actually really low. You know, like, we just literally is closing our mouth. Like Yeah. You know, I I I don’t, you know, have the the actual numbers of of how that actually helps our health span, but it it’s it’s pretty massive, especially given how much we breathe. Right? We wanna make sure that we’re breathing properly. Right? We we haven’t, you know, we’re not, you know, a lot of this mouth breathing is is just a function of modernity. Right? So, yeah, we just need to get get back to nasal breathing, and Yeah. And I and I think, you know, it it’s our our muscles will work more effectively. Our brain is gonna work more effectively. You know, every organ cell tissue in our body, is gonna, work more effectively. So, yeah, nasal breathing is is, I think, really important. And then, and then that breath work. Well, it’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: cool because I’ve seen more and more people, you know, tape their mouth and do all that stuff either while they’re sleeping or while they’re working out. Yep. And while I was, you know, Instagram talking you, getting my research for today. I, you know, I saw you did one, like, oh, three and a half years ago. You were Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: The portal is both. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I’m like, alright. There’s something to this. If she’s doing this three plus years ago, I’m like, alright. There’s something there. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I’ve totally Yeah. I mean, at this point, like, I I don’t have to tape my mouth anymore. But, yeah, I was trying to actually I was taping it during, wait session, so where I really struggle to kind of, keep my mouth closed. Yeah. But, yeah, I was just kind of, yeah, so that that was a a post run about to get into my weight session, and, yeah, I was just trying to kinda ramp up the I guess, difficulty, just by focusing on nasal breathing. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Incredible. Let’s talk about synchronizing our circadian rhythm. What that means. Why is that so important? Let’s talk about it. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. This is another one. I think, right, with breathing, that I think people don’t necessarily, maybe understand or think about or or realize, like, how powerful of a lever it is to improving really every aspect of of human health. So our bodies are naturally, want to naturally align to the light dark cycle. So, you know, right now, it’s day time. So the sun is out. And my body is taking in cues from the environment. It’s taking in cues from my behaviors as well. So when I eat, when I go to bed, when I wake up, when I exercise, you know, when is that mo those moments of stress, when is that the moments of relaxation? So all of these things are are really, are are the cues, the the most important cues that, are gonna tell my body my cells, my tissues, my organs, what it is they need to do. And when we are behaving out of sync, to the light dark cycle that has that puts enormous, stress on my system. So you can think about when I’m aligned, so that’s it’s, you know, it’s the daytime, and I’m getting lots of natural light my body is really happy and it feels safe because it’s it’s what it’s what is it being what my body is expecting indogenously is being kind of confirmed and validated with what’s happening externally. So there’s we call that circadian alignment. When I am awake, for example, when my body thinks it should be sleeping, that puts huge amounts of stress on my body. And as a result, my body feels unsafe. And when your body feels unsafe, it activates the sympathetic branch of the nervous system. So thank cortisol adrenaline. Right? Like, we we need that we need that activation in certain moments during the day, but we don’t want it during when during the night when we should be sleeping. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: So, so that’s just one example of kind of desynchronization and we know from the literature, the extensive literature, when we are when our circadian rhythms are desynchronized, that leads to all sorts of deleterious health outcomes. So we know that you know, I’ll I’ll save some of the really morbid, night shift worker, data because I know it’s like I’ve Speaker Brett Gilliland: read those studies that you guys put in the the in your deal. It’s terrible. Speaker Kristen Holmes: I it’s really tough and, you know, there’s other levers that I think that people can kind of pull to offset some of those negative effects of being awake during, you know, the biological night. But, but bottom line, folks want to try to, create as much synchronization, as much alignment with kind of, the natural light dark cycle. So that’s kind of number one. So, you know, morning, you wanna get as much natural light as humanly possible. You know, and it doesn’t take that much, but get yourself outside, you know, within an hour of waking up, you want, you know, five to twenty minutes, I, you know, an hour if you can swing and I, and I know that’s not practical for everyone, but, but do your best to get outside. That’s gonna set off a just a cascade of, I guess, information that that, you know, to your cells and your tissues and organs that are gonna tell them what it is that they need to do. That it’s time to be awake. This is really important information, to kind of keep you, healthy. The next piece, necessitating kind of lever is at when the sun goes down, you want to restrict light. I think it’s important for folks to note to on stand that we actually haven’t adapted as the species to, blue light after the sun goes down. Again, we think about it if our for anchor principle is about our make helping my body feel safe. This is a a core component when I am exposing myself to a lot of bright artificial light after the sun goes down. Again, my body doesn’t feel safe. I don’t end up producing melatonin, which is the the kind of hormone of darkness, and, melatonin only gets only gets released when, there is darkness. So if I am exposing myself to huge amounts of artificial light, it’s gonna be really hard to fall asleep. And melatonin isn’t just about making me fall asleep. It has neuroprotective, effects. It, melatonin, reduces cancer proneness. It it has just a, a wide ranging, impact on our on our kind of Gilliland and and when we’re depriving ourselves of of that, where, you know, that will come at a a huge cost. So light and managing light is kind of the number one, I think, circadian behavior. The second piece, of information that our body is trying to, to, align to is when you’re eating your meals. You wanna try to eat all your calories when the sun is up ideally. That is when our our body is most primed to metabolize food, and that is when it’s expecting to have to digest food. When you eat outside, of the, of of daylight hours. Again, that it it’s metabolically. It’s very expensive. Your body has to work you know, exponentially harder, to metabolize that food because it’s just it’s it’s not interested in digesting food. It’s interested in deactivating and resting. And we see at population levels data on whoop. And folks report that they’re eating, food within two hours of bed, we see huge negative impacts on sleep, So their ability to drop into deeper stages of sleep, we see negative impact on recovery, markers of recovery, so heart rate and and resting heart rate, respiratory rate. So Tim restricted eating is what we kind of call it. We call it consolidating, and time restricted eating is different than fasting. Fasting has a caloric restriction component. This is really just consolidating all of your calories within, a a window of time, 08:10, twelve hours, ideally when the sun is up. Yeah. So that’s like the second lever that’s, like, really critical. And then, the final lever that I’ll I’ll note is just you know, going to bed and waking up at consistent times. And what will enable you to do that is, restricting light after the sun goes down and seeing light first thing when you wake up. And when you do that, you will fall asleep and stay asleep generally. Have just this beautiful restorative sleep for the most part. So but sleeping stabilizing sleep wake time, and we see in our data, you know, for every minute after forty five minutes, of variability of when you go to bed and when you wake up. We see, decreases in, heart rate variability, which is negative, and increases in resting heart rate. So you wanna try to Yeah. So you wanna try to keep that window variability as narrow as possible in terms of when you wake up and when you go to bed. You don’t wanna have, like, you know, you don’t want it to be you know, an hour, two hours, three hours. Like, you wanna try to keep that band as as narrow as possible. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It it’s, so I’m on the insights on the whoop tab or the whoop app and, it it’s funny. So a couple of them I wanna go through. So to to confirm what you’re saying there, obviously, you’re much smarter than I am, and you don’t need my confirmation, but My consistent wait time is eight percent added to my recovery, and my consistent bedtime is five percent. You know, so those may not sound like a big deal to be, but five to eighty percent is a big number. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Right? That’s that’s sign that’s clinically significant. Yes. Yeah. There are huge huge changes. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And and so and then, the other one, and this is one of the biggest helpers for me. And you guys do that nice little push notification. Tell me, hey, Brett, you know, go to bed. You know? And so sometimes I’m like, shut up, whoop, you know, I don’t wanna hear you. I know. I need to go to bed. Right? Speaker Kristen Holmes: I know. I know. Speaker Brett Gilliland: But the sleep performance. Right? Speaker Kristen Holmes: One more show. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Seventy five percent plus sleep performance was seven percent. So that’s controllable. Control the controllables. Right? So now I know if I just put myself to bed like you would a child, I’m gonna be better off tomorrow, you know. And so the the one that I’m that I’m passing it by all the time is, a device in bed. I give myself some time, not every night, but sometimes ten to twenty percent or ten to twenty minutes of time with my phone, maybe just brainlessly scroll or whatever. I have a four percent more recovery better recovery when I get my device versus not having my device. That one’s weird to me. Now I’m usually wearing blue light blocking glasses, So I don’t know if that is offsetting it. I don’t know, but Speaker Kristen Holmes: it’s weird. For sure is. Yeah. So I think I think if we’re wearing blue light blocking glass, The lights generally are kind of dim, and we’ve got, you know, the on the phone, we’ve got the, you know, the filters on. That will definitely no question that that, I I I would say that I don’t know if it mitigates the the impact entirely, but as long as you’re falling asleep, not having a hard time falling asleep and you’re staying asleep, oftentimes we’ll fall asleep, but then we’ll end up with fragmented sleep. So I would look at your sleep quality, on the days where, Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Because sleep performance is more of just a function. You said that it it’s related. It says, it improves sleep performance. What was the metric that it improved? Speaker Brett Gilliland: It, let’s go back to it. Performed, positive impact, accounting of the four percent impact, on my recovery. Speaker Kristen Holmes: On recovery? Okay. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Alright. So Yeah. So it’d be interesting to see kinda how it might impact, the quality of your sleep because we know that But then these are correlations. Right? It’s not causation. So I just keep, you know, keep that in mind. And, you know, we’re not able to kind of perfectly constrain our models necessarily. So, you know, there’s gonna be some where you’re like, oh, wow. This is interesting. Yeah. But that said, like, you know what? Scrolling for you is relaxing. Like it’s — Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Kristen Holmes: you’re kinda checking, meant some sort of mental box that’s important. And as a result, like, you know, it doesn’t have a negative impact. So when you are able to kind of go through and then part of it too is routine. Like, I think it’s like we’ve got this stack of behaviors in the lead up to bed that are gonna either promote our our sleep and recovery or they’re they’re not gonna promote our sleep and recoveries. That is just a behavior that Yeah. That seems to not have a negative impact. I’d be interested on on how impact is further. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: As we’re thinking about it, talking about it, it’s it also makes me thing too is, like, that’s maybe the one time in my day where I’m not, you know, doing something for work or doing something that nobody needs me. It’s just, like, I I call it Brett Time. Right? It’s like this is I can just chill. Right? And just kinda brainlessly look at something. And it’s people I enjoy to follow. Right? I get I get inspired. So Yeah. It’s probably that. So that’s good stuff. Let’s dive into if we can a little bit about, cold plunge versus sauna we talked about, obviously, the importance of sleep, but I wrote down cold plunge, sauna, sleep, hydration, movement. Those are all, you know, critically important to anybody that wants to, you know, do anything in life, but Talk about the cold plunge versus the sauna. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Okay. So I this is yeah. This would be part of the physiology lectures talking about this, concept of Hormesis. And everyone should kind of understand that that concept is basically what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. And and that’s really what’s happening with Sauna, you know, these stream temperatures, you know, sauna and cold plunge are kind of creating, this phenomenon that’s called Corimesis. It’s it’s a stress. You’re you’re stressing the the body, in a in a functional way, that’s, that allows you to, basically, adapt to future stress in a more functional way. So it’s kind of like, you know, so you wanna for organisms, like, it’s really important that they undergo certain amounts of stress. And and frankly, modernity has, like, removed so much of that stress. And as a result, we have become, I think, a lot softer. The comfort crisis, Michael Easter. I actually just talked to him the other day. He’s, like, such a fascinating man, but, But I, you know, I think that we need to that’s why I think you see this emergence of, like, you know, people engaging in Gilliland cold plunge because, you know, we just don’t actually get enough stress, that type of stress throughout the day, like environmental stress. Right? And and what I’m talking about is, you know, kind of extreme heat and and stream Gilliland, like, our body having to kind of adapt and work through that is actually, is is important. And so, that said, there are there is a point of diminishing returns in both of these modalities. So, you know, Sauna, I think the recommendation is, you know, force for four by twenty minutes, at, I think, you know, one eighty degrees Fahrenheit, will elicit, you know, tons of positive effects on, on on the them. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: And cold plunge, I think very simply, you know, I think if you I think you it’s really not that cold. Like, you can do fifty nine degrees or less. You know, the the colder, probably the shorter amount of time. I think fifty nine degrees, you probably need to spend five or six minutes in a in temperature like that to kinda elicit the the effect. But from what we’ve seen, you know, twelve minutes per week, divided into kind of four sessions, where you’re you know, kind of shocking the system, cold shock heat shock, there’s lots of, you know, you release endorphins and, you know, so there’s like a cascade of of really positive, you know, neurobiological kind of components that, that I think p get people to come keep coming back to these modalities. It’s, like, painful as you’re doing it, especially the cold But, but afterwards, you know, you get this, like, you know, hit a dopamine and, yeah, and you feel really good. But but really what that what that does, and and I think when we talk think about this principally. You know, there’s just a bunch of behaviors that we can engage in that’s, kind of stress our our system and in a in a in a way that’s gonna allow us to adapt to future staff stress, more more functionally. So I think when we think about cold hot. Like that it there’s an immune, immuno protective, element to that as well. So we’re increasing our resilience, right, by undergoing this kind of short term intentional, temporary stress. Right? And it’s important to, like, be be getting thrown into a thirty two two degree a lake, off a boat without knowing I mean, and and not knowing if I can recover them, that that is not good stress. Right? Like that’s — Right. Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Kristen Holmes: that’s So what I’m talking about is is really intentionally kind of, you know, choosing these modalities. So that intention I think is is is kind of part of the the package. But, But, yeah, really core. You mentioned hydration. We also see that really, really strongly to recovery when people are under under hydrated, we see, you know, that impact recovery really significantly. So just, yeah, getting, you know, just like an ounce for every, you know, pound of of, for, you know, you know, per pound is is per prescription. If you’re working out a lot Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So if a hundred and seventy pounds, I gotta I gotta drink a hundred and seventy Speaker Kristen Holmes: dollars a lot. Yeah. And it’s probably, like, maybe point seven, point six. It just depends on your activity. Well, if you’re not, like, out and about a ton, and working out hard, Yeah. I I’d say point six point seven. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Got it. Yeah. Perfect. Let’s let’s talk about this new book you’ve got. Speaking of that, we’ll take a water break here. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I know. Yeah. So I I actually I wrote, a poem for my daughter, for for, Christmas. And it was entitled yes, and it was just kind of all the lessons I had kind of learned in my life. But but we’re, not all of the lessons, but, just around, you know, how do we how do we think about, What what we what do we what do we what do we say yes to? And and and in a in and I kinda try to put a positive spin. We talk all about oh, what are we saying no to? And I just wanted, like, kind of a set of principles for her where she can kind of think about, alright, what are the things that we actually say yes to? And you know, you know, yes to the curves of the pedals, the great problems you wanna solve. Like, you know, so it was really around, like, you know, saying yes to the great problems you wanna solve, like, you know, saying, you know, and so it was like kind of an emotional, kind of journey, you know, for me to kind of, I think, write this, write this book. But it started out just as, you know, really a poem, and I I framed it for my daughter. And you know, and she was like, mom, she’s like, I really think other girls would really benefit from these messages. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Wow. — Speaker Kristen Holmes: and, yeah, which is, like, so sweet of her to say. And And she’s like, you should put this into a little book. And so, I started working on the illustrations, and, Yeah. And and just, yeah, it just published it a month ago. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. I love it. I know it’s on your Instagram bio that you can find a link there and buy that on Amazon. So we’ll put that in the show notes and how cool. I mean, think about even the mindset there. Like, I mean, you just kinda set it and Like, it’s just normal in your household. Your daughter’s, like, put that into a book. Speaker Kristen Holmes: When you Speaker Brett Gilliland: think about that, right? Like Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Not everybody just thinks about, hey, let’s take a poem and turn into a book. Like, anything is possible. Right? I mean, that’s a big deal. That’s a Speaker Kristen Holmes: really big deal. Yeah. It it was it was really a really sweet moment. I yeah. And I and I don’t know. I never really asked her, like, kind of why she said that. But I I think she was just you know, I I I feel like it resonated with her and and I think she was like, yeah, other other girls could really benefit from this message. But, yeah, it was it’s it’s neat that she kind of, like, put an action to it, you know? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s kinda Awesome. Awesome. I got a thousand more questions that I could ask, but I know you’ve you’re a busy person. So let’s, do one more question here. I got your Instagram up. I’m gonna have you we we call this the Instagram So you’re gonna pick a number between one and ten. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Okay. Seven. Speaker Brett Gilliland: K. Six oops. K. Now between one and Speaker Kristen Holmes: three. Two. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Alright. Number two is, right here. If you remember this legacy expeditions says, this is legacy expeditions team consisting mainly of former US special operation services members will attempt to skydive into all seven continents in seven days. We’ll try to raise seven million dollars, folds of honor. So talk to us about the importance of that post, and, and talk about that. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. So legacy expeditions is just this incredible, I suppose this company, owned by, former special operators, and the the whole goal is to kind of create these expeditions where they can, you know, shine a light on, in this case, folds are armor. You know, kind of create these really grueling expeditions that kind of give those former special operators, you know, a sense of purpose, admission. So kind of doing hard things is kind of what they are are kind of trained to do. And when they separate from, from, you know, their, you know, whatever Arm force they were kind of serving, sometimes that could be really hard. So there’s kind of a component of, you know, kinda doing something hard with a team So there’s there’s that fulfillment. And then, and then secondly, you know, because it’s like a grueling mission, it gets lots of press and, they’re able to leverage that press to raise money for, in this case, Volkswagen Barnner, which is, incredible organization that raises, money, gives money to, families who, have had a, a, it’s they’ve now extended to tactical athletes too. So firefighter police women, men, you know, armed armed forces. So if they had a, you know, a death, of of a parent that child can, be the benefit of of the educational of Speaker Brett Gilliland: the master. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. So I did for this team, I did, I did the physiology. So I kind of helped them understand, you know, how to prepare for this mission, just using the data. And then, we did a whole analysis of the data over the course of their mission to kind of just see happening physiologically in terms of strain and recovery and sleep. So it was, yeah, seven seven days, seven continents, seven jumps. So it’s it’s pretty amazing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, I lied, and so I got one more question. You can see it here in my microphone, f greater than p. Your future is greater than your pass. That’s our mission statement, our firm. So when you hear that, I’m helping people achieve a future greater than their past. I believe that’s exactly what Woop is doing. It’s exactly what you were doing. So what comes to mind when you hear that? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I mean, I I guess I go back to, like, one of the reasons why I joined Loop is I wanted to impact health at scale. And and I think a lot of what we actually what I do today, the choices I make today are going to position me and my future self either in a positive way or or a negative way. And and I think just the relationship between, you know, it’s like, what happened yesterday doesn’t, you know, It’s just there’s not a whole lot of need about it, but but be it but today, I have a ton of control, over the things that I I do, and I understand that that’s, you know, there’s a lot of privilege that comes with that. But I I think I’ve organized my life, and I’ve worked hard, and I’ve basically kind of created a scenario where I have a lot of choice and what I do, and, and how I live, and how I treat other people. And, I can make, you know, choices that are going to help my future self or or not. And, and I I so I suppose that’s kind of what I think about when. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I love it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, Kristen, thanks so much for being on the circuit of success. I mean, amazing takeaways for me today. I took a couple pages of notes, and, hopefully, people run out and get a whoop, and they’ll understand that. I get paid nothing for that. I just I think it’s an amazing thing to do, and, it’s it’s just it’s really helped change my life and make my choices, to be better every single day. What you want. Speaker Kristen Holmes: I love it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, so much for being with us.

On this episode of Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews professional Saint Louis City soccer player Josh Yaro. Josh talks about his journey from Ghana to the US, the importance of finding the right position, and taking criticism. He also emphasizes the need to care for one’s body and the importance of analytics and data in sports. Josh Yaro   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilliland, and I’ve got the privilege to interview Josh Yaro. Josh, how you doing, man? Speaker Josh Yaro: I’m good. How you doing? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m great. You Yaro. We’ve interviewed cardinal players. We’ve interviewed, you know, Blues people. We’ve interviewed all sorts of athletes and business leaders, but you’re the first professional Saint Louis City soccer player that I’ve got to interview. So It’s a big deal. It’s awesome. And you guys are having a great year. Speaker Josh Yaro: Wow. Yeah. Thank you. Well, that’s an almost out of hands for having me on the show. Yeah, it’s been a good year. It’s been a good year. I think, you know, started the season all through the world and we can maintain that, with excited to see how the nuances in, you know, goes for us and, you know, make the playoffs and and make a run for, you know, for a title title. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right. That’d be awesome, man. So maybe for our listeners that don’t know who you are. If you could, give us a little background. What’s made you the man you are today? I know you grew up in Ghana. Came here to college and then went to Georgetown and and had a great college career and and, but if you could give us a little background on who you are today. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I grew up in Ghana. I actually went to and I don’t think a lot of people know I actually went to high school in six states. So working Ghana came, to the States, when I was fifteen. So came to high school as private boarding school in in Santa Barbara, California. So, came as a sophomore, did that for three Yaro, ended up for Georgetown, played a job down for three seasons. So I was I was I was there for two and a half years. And then in twenty sixteen, I got drafted, to Philadelphia Union. So And I’ve been playing since then. So that’s, like, the the shortage, you know, who I am and my and, you know, my time Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what was it like growing up in Ghana? And and when did you, get introduced to the game of soccer? Know that that’s what you were gonna do for a living, hopefully. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I mean, it was it was awesome. It was great. Obviously, growing up around family, in a place that I’m really familiar with. Life was good. Life was great. Right? And, I mean, everyone that goes up and gone every kid plays the same sport, which is awkward. It, for me, it was really strange when I came to the US, you know, in high school, when kids were playing three different sports a year. That’s something I wasn’t used to. It’s because I put your group on Gana. You play only once for year round and that sucks. That’s what there is. I started cleaning up when I was about four years. Yes. And then later on, I joined an organized team. And then, run around when I was eleven, I joined an academy team, called the registry academy, and that’s that’s where, after doing that kind of because to be able to get into that kind of it’s really difficult. I mean, you have to try out as thousands of kids and and on the as well as possible. So at that point, you know, that I had what it took to become a professional. I, you know, I just worked my way out. But then again, it’s it’s difficult. You know, because every kid in Granite, Speaker 3: I think, I was fortunate to be fortunate actually. Speaker Josh Yaro: And so the competition is high, but Speaker 3: I think I was fortunate that I found myself involved in, Speaker Josh Yaro: you know, with my academy and the teammates around me and the development that Speaker 3: I’d, you know, contribute contributor. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. What what we were just talking about this today at lunch. Some guys, we went to a group of us went to lunch and We’re talking about what what point does somebody say, yeah, I’m a defensive player. I’m an offensive player. Right? What do you remember that time frame where he said, okay. You’re gonna be a center back and, you’re gonna play defense. You’re not gonna go to school goals and do all those things? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I do because the first position I have picked is what I play now and I played in the whole life. So, a lot of kids usually, I mean, when you’re growing up, a lot of kids usually just play wherever I didn’t kind of fear that I was, like, I picked one of the stuff with it. So, so, let it stay in position my whole life, which which is crazy. But yeah, I’ve enjoyed it. And I think I know a lot of plans there. You know, used to be sent on me. It’s on my announcement box, so it used to be strike us, and I’m not paying a centimeter or extend this, and it’s they’re all over the place. But, you know, from day one, I just purchased this is the position I want, and I stuck with it, and I stuck with Speaker 3: my whole lot. Hold on. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So happy you did. And would you recommend that for players now? Or do you think it’s good to bound bounce around? Because in before I Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I I think it’s good to bounce around because Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker 3: Okay. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Josh Yaro: and it’s you get experience in different positions. You Gilliland different positions. It’s every position is unique and has a different skill set. So, yeah, just trying different things because they also help, you know, figure out, okay, which 1AM I looking at? What are my strengths and Speaker 3: what is the best position. Speaker Josh Yaro: So, yeah, definitely, I definitely have been college kids that I’ve grown up to try different positions. I did I actually did the try, you know, a few out of positions and I was growing up. Play that a few times. I I think, geez, that’s amazing. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, that center back’s a big job, man because, you know, you’re the last line. You’re the last line of defense here before you leave the goalie on his own, don’t you? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. No. I mean, again, a lot of people look at it, like, you don’t run as much as maybe, you know, you have midfielders Speaker 3: or the guys in front of Speaker Josh Yaro: you, but it’s it’s tough because I the example I always give is that If you are a striker and you lose the ball, you have your midfielders, you have your defenders, and you have your keeper to make play, you know, so that that doesn’t resolve me. So if you’re a midfielder, you have your defender, you have your goal to make a play. If you are a center back, and make a mistake. Well, your only hope is the goalie, you know. Yeah. Like, the the further back you go, it becomes a lot more risky. I sent him some goalies. Go, we make some mistake. I think nobody, you know, nobody gets covered. It’s a tough position in that sense. Mentally, you just you know, when you make a mistake, you have to move on. And it’s, it’s a really tough position. But at the same time, I think I was never joked out, some of the smartest players, you know, I don’t I don’t know. I don’t think so. Speaker 3: That’s really what I think because we basically talked to such as you just can’t see. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, you you were saying about telling kids. And what advice would you have for those kids? You know, I think about I’ve got four boys and they all play soccer and soccer season’s going on right now. And so What advice would you have for kids now to one get, you know, continue to get better, but also to challenge themselves and some daily habits they need to be focusing on? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I think a lot of it, it’s just, developing at your own pace, because it’s just like it’s in life, you know, you look at people that you start with, might be on the same team. You might be the same age group, and everyone’s development is different. You know, some people, it’s an upward development, and it should just keep going up. Addresses, you know, taking two steps, and then they want to get back and back. And that’s okay. Just don’t look at other people’s development and get discouraged by that. As long as you show up every day, you listen to your coaches, you take criticism Gilliland you put in the work, because I think Sometimes people think it’s easy, you know, just walk walk on the field and things are gonna happen. It it takes a lot of hard work, a lot of dedication. And as long as you, you know, you have the work ethic because everything else, you know, will come. If if you are educated enough, if you have the work ethic, Yeah. You might not be good at something, but if you work at it diligently, you’re, you’re, you’re going to become better at it, and just being honest with yourself as well. You know, because you have to at some point, realize, well, let’s go set up what, what you’re looking at, not saying is limit yourself. So but working forward with your strengths, and things that are weakness, or it’s seen as a weakness, work on that to help it become a strength. It might not be your strength at least. You know, you you work on it to make it better for yourself. And the important thing especially for kids is just enjoy it. Because I don’t really want to enjoy and join. And even at this level, I know it’s it’s it’s it’s my job, you know, to go on the end of end, you know, game to do all that, but If you’re not enjoying it, I mean, it’s miserable. It’s — Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Josh Yaro: and it becomes really, okay, I I have to go straightening off. Yes, I’m not again. But if you can work up every day and enjoy it, have a smile on the first face while using it, what Speaker 3: makes makes each difference. Speaker Josh Yaro: So for case, I always don’t keep just enjoy it. Enjoy, enjoy the process, enjoy the learning process, enjoy the hard work, and work as a half science, and, you know, just figure out insights and stuff, figure out Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love you. So then enjoy the hard work, enjoy the process. Right? And enjoy even sometimes we nobody wants to mess up, but I think we put so much pressure on ourselves. Don’t we that I mess up and I think it’s gonna be perfect or I gotta go do this many goals or this many saves, whatever it may be. Just and try to enjoy that process like you’re saying. It’s huge. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. Because I mean, the, the only way you really learn is, is, is making mistakes. You know, it’s, it’s, and it’s just I can like, you know, all that you get and learn things that, maybe when you were twenty, you didn’t know. But I did even know those things because the council of experience. And the only way good experience is by making mistakes, I think. We often see mistakes as these horrible things. And they are bad. I mean, I don’t wanna make a mistake in the game because then there are leads to using or something like that. But at the end of the day, yeah, mistakes are gonna happen. It’s just how you how you react to it and how, you know, the direction after that, how you can advance on the instincts or is it on the machines if you’re able to learn from your mistakes and move on, now you, but now you, you know, you have something that you didn’t So Speaker Brett Gilliland: what do you do outside of practice? You know, now, but also even as a kid and whether you’re high school or college. I mean, obviously, the coaches say, be here from this time to this time, but There’s there’s more than just that. Right? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I mean, there’s more. I mean, even now when you look at it, it’s the time that I spend at work. It’s all processing. It’s it’s you know, it’s just a fraction of my time. Yeah. Yeah, and I think as athletes, we’re much more than, you know, what you see out there just on the field. It’s it’s everyone. It’s easy, your own ways. And I I tend to, you know, when you know, And it’s changed various parts of my life. I was in high school and college. It was different. And when I started playing, because I was doing college, so I go to art centers, because later in the day, now I’m done with college. So most of the time, I come home, realize for a bit, watch TV, sometimes sometimes do some wipes in my foundation dish, which I would have put back in. But most of the time, it’s just relaxing I’m taking care of my body. Because you quickly realize that your body is video body to work. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what do you what do you do from a, from a recovery standpoint? How do you how do you spend those times? Speaker Josh Yaro: So recovery. I mean, we have the ones in the the I’m fortunate and everyone in the team is really fortunate to have. It’s the amount of, you know, health, health, that we have, you know, outside of the field. We have trainers. We have, you know, chiropractic, we have doctors. We have every, you know, every possible possibly thinking, you know, for recovery. So, you know, we have our ice baths. We have, you know, prior therapy. We have massage therapist. We have some higher practice. It’s a lot of things that you can to to make sure that your body is taken care of. So, it’s been great that way. I do most of my staff, usually, you know, I had to train personally. Because I I have that itemized score score. Right. Yeah. But again, it’s crazy how much score science plays it’s easy. And do what we do. Because you look, you look back even like 10:15, twenty years ago, athletes didn’t have what we have, in terms Right. And now everything’s it’s down to assigning sciences, which is good because that means you can play for much longer than longer than you used to, your body must your body’s stronger and, recovers a lot quicker because they are the time to us to help you help Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think Tom Brady helped that. Right? Whether people like him or don’t like him. I mean, it’s, you know, you you see the the massage, the stretching, the the the whatever he calls it, his movement type stuff versus just, you know, going in and throwing weights around a weight room. That’s important, but there’s also all the other stuff that goes along with it. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, like, he’s he’s a part of the song. You know, when you look at someone, like, even if he’siano Ronaldo and that’s, and he’s study hate now and still perform, you know, and and I think a last part of it, it’s just just, you know, you know, has to do with full size. You know, your your body, the way you’re covered, the way you sleep, like everything is monitored now, and you can actually have a lot of information about how your body and how your body’s working and responding and all that stuff. And that’s that’s the main thing, you know, to me. And we are fortunate here, you know, a city that we have a lot of, knowledgeable people that help us with that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Big investment. Cold plunge never gets easier. Does it. It’s terrible. Speaker Josh Yaro: Again, I see all these videos of people that can go into cold plunge’s Gilliland I’m talking, like, extremely cold plunge — Right. For a long time number. That’s not it. I mean, they have, like, I mean, they have, like, eight to twelve minutes that I’m, I’m out. That’s So Speaker Brett Gilliland: you still go eight to twelve minutes in a cold plunge at what temperature? Speaker Josh Yaro: I mean, usually, it’s not I I have to look at what they said. I was supposed to go. I mean, anyway, Fifty, maybe. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Fifty. It’s cold. And it’s cold. I do them here and there, and it’s just brittle. It never gets easier. But, man, you’d feel like a million bucks when you get out of that thing. Don’t you? Speaker Josh Yaro: That’s how it does have in your body. Yeah. The second you get out, you can feel the difference between one and one. Got out. Like, it’s amazing and and for us, like, sometimes when you especially after games, when you play games, you don’t really realize I have to use it. So anything like that. And then two days, when you go into an ice bath, for instance, like, all those noises that you didn’t realize you had, taking care of it. When you have a glue to ice it, And so it has helped a lot, you know, in all the voice invoicing. I think the times behind the scenes, it’s pretty good. How Speaker Brett Gilliland: about saunas? You believe in saunas? Speaker Josh Yaro: Not a big fan. We we have the lot of other facility, but I might have. I’ve never really been into Speaker Brett Gilliland: Like, it’s too damn hot. Speaker Josh Yaro: I mean, I would do, like, the the cool tablet, prior to Timber, which pretty much keeps you just saying that it sets going into an icebox. Yeah. But but yeah. Big on songs. Yeah. Alright. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like them. I like it. I like going in them, but they’re, I like that over the cold, but Speaker Josh Yaro: I know the cold I can do it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I, you know, four, five, six minutes. But, so let’s turn to page a little bit. Obviously, big news in MLS this year with Messi joining. I’m sure you’re tired to talk about that or somebody asking about it. But when you hear that news, man, what’s that like as an MLS player that hears one of the greatest players if not the greatest player in the history of soccer is coming to play with y’all. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I mean, obviously, like, people talk about it a lot and rightfully so because it’s, it’s a big it’s a big moment in my history of the drink and mean, it just goes to show show you how the steps of the league has taken and how far the league has passed. You know, when the league started, Again, I don’t think anyone if I thought we get, you know, get to this point. And it’s it’s come so far. And could you see everyone that was, you know, involved in making that happen, because us, you know, he had another option. I was like, because I’ve taken his safety, but, to make MLS appealing. He just had one like him. It’s it’s it’s an unbelievable machine machine. So — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Josh Yaro: it’s great to have someone design the leak because he keeps the leak, he keeps the leak exposure. And you’ve seen, you know, even with his team, his former team is joining him and everyone is turning their attention Speaker 3: to nonetheless now because, yeah, you know, have someone like in their belief. So Speaker Josh Yaro: I think it’s great for the league. It’s great for us. Because again, it’s, again, I grew up watching English, you know, before we came to a floor and growing. Get into chance to use, to share a feel with some of my students. It’s amazing. Well, the same thing when I joined the league, you know, the guys like Steven Jarrod, Carlo, and guys that I grew up watching that when hiring, you know, all of a sudden, laying on the same field. I know that. It’s it’s an unbelievable, moment. So, yeah, I mean, it’s exciting. I don’t think city will get to play in Miami. The chances of assisting each other, again, yes, this line is as weird as we’re able to hit them. But, but, Speaker Brett Gilliland: yeah. Speaker Josh Yaro: Again, for the rest of the week, I think it’s it’s great. It’s great. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Wouldn’t be a bad deal though? Wouldn’t it be, doing a little slide tackle maybe stealing the ball from Messi and going down, making something happen? Speaker Josh Yaro: Well, that’d be nice. That’d be nice. Again, it’s just, you know, it’s just a surreal moment for for the league and for everyone. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Very cool. So who is the person that you grew up watching? Like, who’s the guy that you said, man, I I wanna kinda, you know, play like that guy. Obviously, be your own guy, but but that’s the person you idolized growing up? Speaker Josh Yaro: His name is Rio Pregnant and he cut in punches to another. He cut in government, and grew up actually on my remember going to make this guy. It’s really good. And I was actually fortunate that I got to meet him in two thousand and nine, when I was in Manchester, it was one of those things that it was a really cool moment. Just Yeah. I agree with watching you on admiring and all of a sudden it’s like face to face and it’s what a moment. But, yeah, he’s a guy that, I looked up to a lot. Really good player, the way that he plays and really cleaning anything. I tried to click, pick on some of, you know, the things that he does. I haven’t really found anyone that I like as much since he retired, but he he always be the guy who came up. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I, I was listening to you on another, oh, there’s a podcast of where I heard you, but you talked about your passion for, you know, wanting to be more than a soccer player. You wanna be involved in this community. And and so talk to us about why that’s so important to you because I think it’s amazing because you could just go cash a check, play some soccer, have some fun, and not necessarily have to give back. But here you are doing things like this, and you wanna be involved in the Saint Louis community. Talk to us about that. Speaker Josh Yaro: I’ve tried. I mean, since I got here last year, I’ve tried to, you know, be in the community. I’ve done it a few times in a few different ways. I think as athletes, we really fortunate that we get to live the life that we have. And you can completely know that we have a lot of support in these cities and for me, it’s a lot of dedication from the fans and for everything that they do for us. So Again, I want to be part of the community and not just, oh, I’m here for some of this. Like, but, yeah, that’s that’s that’s why I came here, but wanna be part of the community. I want I want to learn about this city. I want to know what’s going on. I want to involve, just a way to say things into the city. And depends, they give us so much every day. And I really do appreciate everything they do for us. So for me, that’s just my way of saying is, you know, thank you for allowing a city here. Thank you for the support. And and all the amazing things that, the city and the, and these fans as you promised for us. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, I know I I can speak for a lot of leaders in Saint Louis and just anybody in Saint Louis, but that, you know, it’s great to hear that, man. When a guy is in our community and new to our community and and once give back. So my philosophy in life is if you take a living from a community, you gotta give back to the community. And so it was great to hear that you were in line with that. And, that’s why it’s one of the reasons I was excited to chat with you. So let’s talk about a little bit about mindset perseverance, I looked at, you know, the games and studying you, you know, didn’t probably start out playing as much as you wanted to. Right? But you you had a great attitude. You kept putting in work. And now it seems like what? Last five of last seven games, something like that. You’ve started. You’re playing, you know, it’s like What was your attitude like? What was the culture like? When you mean nothing more as an athlete you wanna do than be out there? But how did you stay committed to what you were doing? And now, playing as much as your plant. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I mean, a lot of it, like I said, experience, and and I’ve been playing for a few years now. And you go through those moments, you know, it’s time to realize, you know, twenty eight, thirty guys, you know, all eleven guys can get out, you know, at the time. And in life, you’re gonna get opportunities. It’s it’s a matter of Yaro you prepared? Are you ready for the account? And for me, I think most of the time when when players are in position when they’re not turning, the mindset is, well, why should I train harder? Because know I’m not going to play, but that’s that’s that’s a lot because at some point it’s a long season and it’s it’s it’s it’s not gonna get called, you know, and And I think you’re not doing yourself any favors. If you’re not working hard in training, if you’re not putting the work, and if you’re not having a good you have to be a good teammate regardless of your situation. And for me, that was the thousand big piece, you know. Yeah. And everyone on the team plays a path because even if I’m training well. Well, that’s pushing the status and that’s making sense together every day training. So I’m contributing in that way even if I’m not playing, and That’s maybe that’s my role. And that’s so when I wasn’t playing, that was that was kind of my mindset. I’m gonna work hard. I’m gonna push the guys in front of me. And when I get the I’m gonna take them to take it Gilliland that’s what I did. So it’s tough to do that at the moment, because it hasn’t been easy. You know, there’s times going on. I have my moments, but, but, most of the time, though, I kind of switch my mindset to be in a place where I could, support my teammates regardless and work hard and make sure that I was really, I was prepared for when I joined the game. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And so talk more about that. I mean, I I call it your roommate. Like, everybody’s got a roommate and that roommate’s the the guy up here talking to us in our head. Right? And What did you do to silence that roommate and and make him be more positive when you could’ve gone the other route and been negative with it? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. Again, a lot of it, I think it’s it wasn’t easy in in any way, but a lot of it it can a little bit easier. I should say, because the experiences I’ve had playing. I’ve been a stewardess like that before, and I’ve seen the turnaround. And because nothing is really pendant. Like, the way that teams start in the beginning of the season is not how they’re gonna end. You know, there’s always a lot of changes in the line there’s always some of the games, the entries, the people who hang up the phone, and it’s it’s a lot of Gilliland so for me, it was it was a matter of, yeah, you know, you might have doubt that you never played, but there is a chance that you lose your mind. And, and for me, that that chance we got us a house small, it was. It’s what kept on going. And and also knowing that, yeah, I’ve seen this situation before and I’ve been in it before, and I turned it around. Done it before and I can do it again. And so, again, when I say experience, it’s it’s great. That’s that’s one of the instances where I think my experience or playing professionally for a few years now, hitting it. And so, yeah, you have your moments where, you know, like, you said, the guy up 06:20 not worth it, like, why you run an extra while you’re doing this, why you’re doing that, you’re not going to play, but you have to keep pushing yourself, you know, I know for a fact that everyone gets their chance, everyone gets their moment. And guys that get really disappointed are those that they get finally get the chance, I’m not even taking a ticket well, because they weren’t so great. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Love it. I love that mindset, man. That’s so many so much to learn. You can just do a podcast just on that question right there. So daily habits. So something I would see. If I followed you around for the next week, what am I seeing no mis items for you day in and day out? Speaker Josh Yaro: Well, then, I mean, change my life. It’s really simple. I wake up. I get ready. I go to work. I come back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: How long are you working? Like, when you say work, how long are you doing that? Speaker Josh Yaro: I mean, so I have to report all it, to the facility around 09:30 every morning, but I usually get there around 08:45 to nine. And and then I’m usually there till about 2PM PM. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Josh Yaro: And so, yeah, just just that. And then, I mean, a big problem with it because you realize that your body is what you work with. And so in any way to kind of take care of that all, you know, make sure that it’s in the best possible condition. You know, it’s it’s it’s you do that to optimize your chances of being able to perform the next days. And I try, I mean, I’ve I don’t drink alcohol. I don’t drink coffee. I feel, you know, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Just anything to give me kind of like the the the edge, you know, because your body has to recover and it has to be able to be able to perform at a higher level than day. So my day’s afternoon. Not not much clothes on it. You know, I maybe in the evenings, I go on a walk with. With my girlfriend and, you know, just uneven escrow and, yeah, to close for the day. But most of the time, just, you know, Speaker Brett Gilliland: Just chilling. Taking care of your body, man, because that’s that’s the, that’s the asset. That’s the asset. So when you see or hear the words, achieving a future greater than your past, what would come to mind for you? Speaker Josh Yaro: I mean, that’s that. Because, again, as athlete, I think as an athlete, I think you’re always kind of in that mindset. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Josh Yaro: Because you have to always consistently push yourself to perform, and you have to always perform better than the previous because it’s encompasses our competitive sports. And and your best yesterday, you know, might not be good enough for the next day because everyone else is pushing themselves in different ways. And so, for me, just just You know, like I said, continue getting game minutes, and, I’ve just been better than what’s the biggest game, you know, in a lot way to anything. And and that’s that’s measured in a different way because, you know, like everything, like I said, with four times, everything that we do is monitor. So, like, how hard I’m working, how hard I’m running all that from the previous day I have. So if I wanna be better, I think, well, maybe I gotta beat those numbers the next day. Maybe the game, maybe the game that I had last week or this week, what can I do better, to even make it a better game than last week and then just keep building on that? So yeah, it’s in the contact condition with myself. I guess that’s how I see it. Because once you start, compete against someone else, you kind of on the side of cellular, because you have to realize that everyone is weak and everyone is built differently. Because if you look at, again, for example, all the sunavirus that we have not roster. Everyone’s different. Everyone’s getting style is different and everyone has unique styles and everything. And so once you start comparing yourself to someone else, if you’ve lost a blah, like, it’s when it was, say, you are your own competition, that’s that’s true. I found that to be true a lot. Because if you can compete against yourself and you can be better, then you want a previous day, then I think you’ve learned a lot And, yeah, another day, if your best is not good enough, but you’re still achieving at your best best. I think, you know, you’re doing your right. Right? Yeah. You’re doing your right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s all. So when you when you play a game, did are you wearing those vest and they’ll tell you game or practice and it you know, exactly how fast you got from point a to point b and how much running you did. And so so talk to us about that. After a game or practice, what do you personally do or what what is kind of the team do to that those analytics. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. So, I mean, we have people that are in charge of that. And every session, there’s a number that you have to hit. So I think everyone on our team pretty much is done every day. And then that’s just the way that our team is built. It’s really hardworking themselves. No issues with that. You can have your data. Like, after every game, they send us all the data in the day, how fast you’re running, how far you run, like, how have you easily read? I’m telling you every possible information that you could get. It’s it’s it’s provided to me. So you can look at it. You can compare that to the, you know, the previous week’s, game, and and every game is different as well, because some games maybe you might be chasing the game, and so it’s a lot more rotten for you or some game you in control, so you’re not running as much as possible. Yeah. So it’s it’s you you have to analyze the data based on based on on game places, you know, I know. And even in practice, each day is different because the process that you get to gamebed, you know, not not the load that you’re doing in training is a little bit, lower because you’re getting pretty again while in the beginning of the week, it’s harder now. It’s, it’s, it’s a little further from the game. So, You take everything in in in context to you as to what’s going on, but you have all this information, like, every information that you need. It’s it’s on there. And if you don’t understand it, then someone just explain it to you and to help you and figure it out. So, yeah. I mean, I think that’s that’s that’s been things as well. So, this kind of, it’s not in the numbers. And then you see where you work, where you should be, and what you’re doing, and Speaker 3: it does good enough or bad. Adjust them. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s what I love about sports, man, is if you could apply that to the business world, the more analytics we have, the more data we have, the better you can be for clients, your community, whatever it is. Right? And it’s like that’s what I love about it is your guys’ discipline to that stuff is to actually take the data Get better. If we could do that at work, take the data, practice it, get better. Get a game plan, have some clarity around it, gonna get to the next level. So last question for you here, Josh. What’s it been like, man? Plain in Saint Louis, the inaugural season, the fans, the the atmosphere, just the noise? What’s it been like in Saint Louis for you? Speaker Josh Yaro: Man, it’s been really nice. Because I remember last year when I got here, started with City tune. The first game last year, we played us in this, and I remember just to hopefully sell them out. Ask man, this is a nice to when we had our Facebook system and then fans showed up to the game. I’m, I mean, with drums and I was like, okay, we’re going to go online and I’m going, man, just pre season game. And before I end with, like, I just wait till the season starts, and I saw that during the season. And so bringing back to this year, more in the figures to the year. My god. It’s been, when you talk to, you know, opponents when they’re saying that, again, it’s really tough to listen to us. I think part of it is also what I’ve created, created, and it’s unbelievable. It’s it’s — Yeah. — it’s it’s been been it’s been great. And, And when you have a fan base, that’s really dedicated, like, you do, and a fan base that care, it might help to be withdrawn. It’s nothing done with today’s a lot every every day we go out there to to perform, you know, as a way to say it again, thank you and and to reward the fans for, you know, for for for for them, for coming to the to come into the game and for us, for the hard work. So it’s been amazing so far. And again, can think different to that for what environment that they’ve created for us for us. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s been awesome, man. Caitlyn Kendall, I know in in the Taylor family and all the ownership group, they’ve done a phenomenal job with the stadium, just the the energy down there. It’s just it’s been phenomenal, man. It’s been it’s a little bit drive around town. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I did build something really Gilliland I think that’s because most ownership groups are really hands off. And I think, I mean, we see them side of their their their their their and they wanted to win this, you know, for the community as well. So that’s absolutely amazing. And you can see in the way that they they relate to the city and they relate to the team and everything that they do and you, and, I mean, the facilities and everything. And they’re interested in to build their own economics. Speaker Brett Gilliland: First class. Well, Josh, it’s been awesome having you, man. Finish strong this season. Keep playing well. I know my boys continue rooting for you and the team and and my wife and I and and behalf of the city man. Thanks for what you guys are doing. It’s been awesome, and thanks for being on the circuit of success.

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Ariana Jahja about her journey and the things she has learned from business leaders. Ariana shares her story of moving from Bosnia to Germany and then to the United States, and how this experience made her question the world and its people. She emphasizes the importance of asking great questions and listening to people to help them feel seen and heard, as well as the importance of energy management and understanding one’s physiological state. Lastly, she talks about the concept of flow states and how to achieve them, as well as the importance of recovery and the MacGyver Method. Tune in to learn more about how to become a better version of yourself! https://youtu.be/LtFPp0kWvzY Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success Podcast. Welcome on back. Your Speaker Ariana Jahja: host, Greg. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circive Success. I am Brett Gilland in Gilliland. I’ve got Ariana Jahja. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. You got it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You say that right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. But Speaker Brett Gilliland: the name like Gilliland, you know, I was, struggle with last name. She gotta be you gotta be careful. So Warian, it’s awesome to have you. Been looking forward to it. And, we’re gonna have a great conversation today. But like I start out all conversations with on the circuit of success is what’s made you the woman you are today. I know you’ve got a great backstory of, on on who you are, but if you could, share that with our listeners, get to know you a little bit. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Absolutely. That’s a loaded question, but an exciting question because, I see that, you have your, journalist as future past, and I feel that what’s made me the woman I am today is my adversity that I’ve been through when I was a child. So moving from Bosnia to Germany, to then here, was tough. It was tough. I was I was little, and I went through a lot of, you know, who am I? Do I fit fit in here? Do I fit in here? You know, what who do I wanna be? What does it mean that my country had genocide? Right? Like, I’m going deep already, but it’s, you know, there was a lot of existential things that I went when I was a child. And you Speaker Brett Gilliland: were, like, six. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: When I was six, that really made me question everything. And I I don’t say that lightly. It just really made me question why do people do the things that they do? And, you know, why is there evil? Because I witnessed it when I was really little. So what made me me is really just having this mindset of, like, I know people can be good because my parents are really good people, but at the same time, there are bad people in this world. And so how do I study this? Speaker Brett Gilliland: How Speaker Ariana Jahja: do I study the mind? How do I study mindset the p, you know, humans so that I can then do something with that later on? Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you you thought that early on. And even at 06:10, twelve year old girl, Speaker Ariana Jahja: here you Speaker Brett Gilliland: are going through basically hell. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And and you’re thinking I’m gonna study the mind and figure this out and help people. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. I just needed answers. Like, it was it was really confusing as a little child to be watching this disaster. You know, just like now, we’re watching in the in the Ukraine and all over the world. And but as a child, you are really connected to something else. And it makes you angry. It makes you fearful. And so I’ve always just thought, I’m going to figure out how to be. How do I wanna be? How do I wanna Gilliland how can I make a difference? Like, as a child, you feel kind of hopeless, but that fuels you later on. And I think that’s kind of why I’m here. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s amazing. So talk about your journey. So you obviously then came in the United States and, you know, went to school and did all those things. And and decided to to take this to a next, the next step. At glow now. You work at glow with Whitney. And, Whitney’s awesome. She’s been on the podcast before. And so talk to us about that. Like, what made you take that next step and and to do what you’re doing now? And for those people that watch billions, I always joke with, Wittany. You probably know where I was going. Yeah. Yeah. What’s her name, Wendy? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Wendy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Wendy. Wendy. I can’t remember Wendy’s last name on Gilliland, but, yeah, you’re like Wendy. Right? You’re like a wendy. You go into businesses. You work with leaders. You work with the companies, and you help them get to that next level. And so That’s right. Gonna dive into that today for those people listening on on really the things that we do. And I know controlling energy is a big one for you, getting in the flow state all those things. But but talk to us right now what you’re what you’re learning from business leaders out in this world that are doing amazing things. What what’s maybe something common theme that you’re seeing out there today? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So just kinda go back to the the journey of going from studying psychology and being sort of in this HR world, if you will, from my early career on, to meeting Celeste and Whitney. Ironically, I have my own podcast, and I got connected with them, and they invited me to or I invited them to be on my podcast. I mean, you talked. And during that conversation, had this big spark, talk about energy, which was like, We are both wanting to support people in getting to their fullest potential. They are doing it with businesses, and I was doing it with the people. Yep. And we both talked about energy. Right? The e in glow stands for energy, and I am a firm believer and I had just gotten out of this training with, the flow research collective, which, the leader is Steven Cottler, and Steven T Cottler talks a lot about flow states. And so I had just gotten out of this cool training with him, with his team. I met Whitney and Celeste, and it was just like this, like, movie moment, but we were like, you know what? Let’s do this together. Because we we all know that organizations are made out of humans, and the humans that are leading it, the the leaders to see suite There’s a lot going on there, the gatekeepers. Right? And how can we support the gatekeepers to be at their best at their fullest potential so that it can trickle down into the organization. And that’s sort of how the Gilliland Ariana journey started. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So I I think that’s, I I connect with that anytime, but it’s about humans. It’s about right. We talk about people or culture. And I interviewed the former president of Starbucks International one time on the podcast. And he said that, you know, Starbucks thing was we’re in the people business. And you you think of Starbucks, you think coffee. Right? They’re like, we’re in the people this. And then they just happen to like coffee. Right? That’s the common thing there. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Exactly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And so I think that’s huge. But again, what what are you seeing out there in the market place today, you know, coming out of COVID and the world’s opening back up, thank god, and all the things that that we’ve learned over these last, you know, three or four years. What are you seeing the most, that business leaders are struggling with right now? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. That’s a good question. There are several things, but I think one of the things is that we have a lot of ten leaders. We have a lot of people who are good at what they do. We have a lot of high performing leaders. Right? But What we don’t have is leaders that can a be trusted and leaders who have a regulated nervous system. And while they’re potentially, you know, creating the results that they need to be, They are showing up every day. They’re doing the work that they need to be doing. They’re miserable when they go home to their families. And they don’t have hobbies. They don’t necessarily know how to find hobbies. They’re confused. Right? There are levels where they have the money, but they don’t really know or have time to use that money. And so what I’m what I’m really finding is that supporting people in looking at what’s actually important to them, And then shedding has been a huge support for a lot of leaders. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Getting rid of things in your life is a is a big deal. We we do that here at visionary wealth advisors. I mean, we sit down with people every day and talk about their goals or dreams or aspirations. Yep. And that shedding is is good. Right? Because sometimes it may be people, if you gotta shed, it may be habits, it may be things that are going on in your life every day. And so so what what’s that process like? I know me, I always talk about ADT, ask, don’t tell. It’s asking great questions and letting them answer the question. Because then when they come up with that, it’s it’s their idea. Oh, that’s great. Yeah. Instead of giving it to them. So is that something that you are a big fan of? I mean, asking great questions. What’s that process? How are you business leaders all over the world. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Questions and listening is huge. I saw this, article the other day on one of the places I followed, it said coaches stop talking. It’s because as coaches, we we have to sit with the people so that they feel seen heard, because what I’m seeing a lot is leaders coming in, and they just want to be heard. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: They but not from a perspective of competency and executive brain and your planning, but you, who you are. Yeah. And as a leader, Right? And just to say the things that you can’t say to your leaders, because you’re always being watched. People are always watching you. And so There’s it gets confusing, right? It’s like you have these feelings Gilliland you have these emotions, but this is who you should be, and then you get lost somewhere in that process. And so as a sitting with them and listening and asking questions and reflecting back. What I’m hearing, because sometimes when we think it we just think it, and then we kinda let go of it. And I reflected back to them and they hear hear me say it. They have aha moments because they’re like, well, wait, actually. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Did I just say that? Speaker Ariana Jahja: I just say that or what do I do I really believe that? Yeah. It’s really challenging the way that they’re thinking. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Business partner Tim Hammond is really good at that. He’s he’s let me let me say back what I’ve just heard you say. Right? And that and he does that to people when you’re in a meeting and it’s you know, he’ll articulate the ten points you just talked about. And it’s like, wow. You know, that that makes people feel really good. So for those listening, I mean, I think you can do that in conversations, I’ve just I’ve seen it so many times. I’ve seen it thousands of times with people, the same back to them. What they’ve just said is a big connecting factor for them. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Oh, yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So you said just a little bit ago, you talked about regulated nervous system. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So let’s talk about that because I I’m a guy. I don’t know if you if this is what you mean or not, but I was a guy early on, and still to this day have it, but I’ve learned to deal with it, making an ally, is, the anxiety, the nerves. Is that kinda where you’re going with that, or you mean something completely different? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. So part of it is that, because actually anxiety and nerves, we can use that as fuel. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Right? So that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It becomes a bad thing when you are literally physically disregulated, meaning that your me in a state called fight or flight. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yes. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And so when we are in fight or flight, our heart is pumping. Right? Our pupils are dilating. Things are happening for us to be able to be in flow and drop into focus. Right? Now that’s good when we actually need to use it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Not good for us if we’re constantly thinking that there’s something wrong because that’s how we actually get sick. Like, that’s how we break down, that’s how we burn out. And so what I support people in doing is, you know, I’m I’m a really big fan of tracking define your data. So I have something called an or a ring. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And I track, you know, what’s what are my HRV levels, which means heart rate variability Gilliland that tells a story, right? And so it gives me information and gives my leaders information on what what do I need to be doing today differently? Right? If I’m overwhelmed, because my nervous system is jacked, I probably shouldn’t be packing my days back to back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m I’m pulling this up because I couldn’t agree more. I have, I wear a woot bracelet. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Oh, sweet. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So it does the exact same thing, and I do my journal this morning. But but it it’s it’s cool because it does a, a stress, and it tells you where you’re at. So, like, right now, which I, I love this, because to what your point is, I go through it through a day, and I’ll find out where my highest peak moments were where I was most stressed. Then I’ll see what I was doing in that moment. But you know what’s crazy? If I’m sitting in a client meeting or I’m doing a like, right now I’m at point nine, which is really low stress. Right? And so I’m finding that when I am doing something, I love doing. So I think people gotta be clear what they love doing. And then put more of that on your calendar. Yeah. Right? I’m at a point nine right now because I love having these conversations with people. If I’m sitting down with a client, I’d be at a point nine as well because I love saying no Speaker Ariana Jahja: to the point. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So so talk more about that because I couldn’t agree more with you because that’s something that I monitor, you know, every single day. How do we help these people listening right now get to more of that low stress state Speaker Ariana Jahja: and Speaker Brett Gilliland: doing something that theoretically could be stressful. Right? Like, this could be stressful. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Well, the the way that I describe it is, and this is how it was kinda taught to me in my training through FRC was Imagine you’re a lion, lions, and the way we wanna operate is fifty percent of the time you wanna be like a lion sleeping. If you watch a lion, he’s sleeping, he’s resting, he’s not moving. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Fifteen hours a day or something. Right. Yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And then There’s prey or it’s some, you know, he needs food. He jumps thumbs up and works. Right? He gets that prey and it’s all it’s stress. It’s fight or flight. Right? And that’s how we Jahja look at our days is fifty, fifty, fifty percent of the time we’re recovering, fifty percent of the time we’re working hard. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Right? And so what I really want people to look at is, you know, even just open up your calendar today and look at how are you scheduling your meetings? So just recently, I made a client just literally pull up his, calendar, and he said to me, you know, how can I He he said, how can I continue after 4PM without this and this? And he, you know, it was water and coffee or water and coffee and, like, another caffeinated drink. And I just looked at him and I’m like, well, unless you want cocaine. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Right? There’s other ways to do this. Like, stop pushing, stop drugging yourself. Stop, right, because there are other natural ways, and that’s recovery. We have to have the grit to recover. This is something else that I teach is so many of us are so used to just going, going, going because it’s the old programming of the old way of doing is that we should fill up our calendars with all the things because that’s what is rewarded as competence. Right? And so a lot of people are robbing you. So if you today want to change, just look at even just leaving a little buffer between your me meetings. It doesn’t have to be an hour. It could be thirty minutes. And instead of having that extra cup of coffee or getting on your phone between meetings, take a nap. Fat your door if you’re in your office, it’s, you know, closing your eyes, and it’s called yoga, Nidra as well. Right? We don’t have to nap, but we need just Nidra. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Something that people can look up where you’re literally just turning off your brain, and I know you like meditation. Right? Meditating for five minutes. So it’s just really looking at your day differently and allowing yourself to recover. And I Speaker Brett Gilliland: think it’s hard, though. Right? I know for me when I was I got to the point. I got to the tipping point where you had a panic attack in a meeting, in a client meeting. And I didn’t know what was going on, you know, and and say, hell, I thought I was having a heart you know, and and this is gosh, this is probably ten and a half, eleven years ago now. And but I but I think it’s hard for us leaders. Don’t you think? Because, like, I was hard charging and I still am and go go go go go go. And if I’m sitting down in my office with a door shut and just kinda taking some deep breaths, for years. It it took me a long time to get through this because I’m like, oh, you’re being a failure. Don’t be weak. Right? You should be on the phone. You should be doing this. You should be doing that. And I think it takes a lot of time for us. And if that’s a guy thing, I think it’s probably men and women struggle with that. They’re hard charges. Right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. How how do you tell that person? Because I would just tell them that they gotta do it. They gotta take a couple years to get through that process. But I have found for me slowing down to speed up. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Mhmm. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I have to take time away. Vacation. Right? Just go back from a vacation. If it’s meditation, it’s buffer. I just did a video on social media that talked about. I used to be back to back to back to back appointments. I have found now that I need a buffer. I don’t like going back to back to back to back to back and just being crazy. Exactly. I like Speaker Ariana Jahja: that buffer. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So when you hear me say all that stuff, what are your thoughts? And how do we help people? Speaker Ariana Jahja: So, yeah, so just shifting the mindset from time management to energy management because we all naturally. So I wanna start off too with, you know, we’re animals first. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Ariana Jahja: We we have a biology that requires certain things that I don’t care how smart you are. Your body is gonna need certain things in order for you to be able to be successful long term. So I think the more people can learn about their own physiological states and how their nervous system operates, the easier it will be for them to comprehend why they need what they need. Right? So understanding a knowledge of self Meaning, yes, mindset is important. Trust me. I love mindset, but really knowing, you know, what is the nervous system? What is fight or flight? What is it feel like when my when I’m in fight fight or flight, and how can I am at how can I notice that I’m in that state? Right? And so that’s number one. Is really figuring out how does it work, knowledge in an an energy management because we all have different of energy levels. Like, you I love that you track yours on on your watch, by really recognizing, are you a morning person or are you a night person? Because there’s something called a chronotype, and this is something that we are born with. And so really figuring that, there’s a there’s a specific formula that I can maybe even sent to you that people can take a a quiz to figure out. Yeah. Am I a lark? Am I supposed to be up at four? And am I not am I not allowing myself to do that? Am I a night owl? And I’m forcing myself to be a morning person? Because that’s gonna matter. Right? When do you do your best work and then schedule everything around that? And that’s what I help people do. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s cool. I’m glad to hear you’re born with that. Because I have, you know, y’all these books with waking up at five in the morning and all these people that do all this stuff. And quite frankly, I hate it. I I can’t stand it. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Thank you. I’m I’m a lot to say about that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: But I’ve but I’ve beat myself up over it for years. I did. Right? It was like, oh, and, you know, real winners get up at five in the morning or 04:52 or, you know, whatever the number is. Right? There’s random numbers, and it’s like, I can’t I don’t like it. I I try it. I’ll do it for a week and a half, and then I’m just pissed off and then I don’t do it anymore. Right? Yeah. My most creative thinking, my time in my journals, it the kids are in bed or whatever. Now it’s downtime. Like, that’s where I most creative at night. I have to make myself go to bed because that’s when I find my flow. So I’m glad to hear that. And so you said you had a lot more to talk about it. Let’s dig into that one. Speaker Ariana Jahja: So let let yeah. Let’s stay there for a second because, you know, the past, like, I remember about ten years ago or so when, like, IG was really Instagram was coming up and remember thinking, I just Jahja find someone that does it the right way, and I just wanna follow what they do because that’s that’s how it’s done. Right? And so I think ever since, there’s been some of this culture. It’s like, let me look up this influencer and see what they do because, you know, they’re successful, whatever successful means. Yeah. Right? And I’m gonna copy what they do, and it’s just awful because there is no one way. There is not even a one way right way for for us, for me and you specifically. Right? Let alone to follow someone else’s energy levels because we are all designed differently. We all have different backgrounds, different traumas, different risk versions, different neurobiologies. And so what has happened is people have really gotten disconnected from who they are. Biologically, but also who they are as a person, right, and they’re following these things that they think they should be doing, and they end up with more stuff on their Gilliland more unhappy. Yep. Because it’s not fulfilling them. So so morning routines, you know, make up your own, whatever feels right. And is waking up bad, early bad? No. Of course, you’re gonna get more done. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: But how are you going to feel at 3PM? Speaker Brett Gilliland: So let’s walk through that. So let let’s let’s assume that I don’t everything we just talked about, and I don’t know when I met my best. Okay. I’m I’m your like. Okay? And you’re gonna help me. You want me to take it to the next level. I wanna take it to the next level. What’s that process look like? So maybe somebody that doesn’t hire you or hire a coach, How are we walking them through where to find out how I can be at my best? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Well, it it will always start with kind of your your current state. So what I do in in VIP sessions with my clients is, you know, we get into a room for about four hours and what I would ask them is, you know, tell me everything that’s going on right now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You might keep interrupting my can. Yep. So, again, think about this for those listening. Four hours. Okay. Right? Four hours of time. Not like, oh, in twenty minutes, you’re gonna figure this out. Yeah. Right? Four hours, you’re gonna just be pelt me with questions. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So questions about well, actually, you know, many times I will go into the past. Because how we think about our past is past is how we define our future and what we do in the in the present. So a lot of times, I will listen to are there any contaminate contamination stories that are happening in their past? Okay. And then from that, we will then say, okay, what’s the current state what’s working, what’s not working. And then, okay, where do you Jahja go? What what is what is the future in an ideal world or you at your highest, and I have them answer those questions. And then as I’m listening, you know, taking notes and so forth, and then after the four hours, we then have a game plan on how to get to they’re trying to go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Got it. Yep. There there’s alignment there. Right? You mentioned earlier, you know, our mission at at vision areas to help people achieve a future greater than their past. And it doesn’t mean you had a bad past. It doesn’t mean there’s a contaminated story in everybody’s past. Right? But we all want a future that’s greater than our past. So When you hear me say future greater than your past, what’s that mean for you personally on how we achieve a future greater than our past? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Well, number one is honesty. I think you have to be really, really honest with yourself saying Why do I want what I want? What did my past really mean? What did I did I do anything? Do I have any guilt? Do I have any shame? Do I have Speaker Brett Gilliland: any Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Hang ups, do I not let myself in off? Like, these are the questions that are going that are dri that drive us. Right? These are the emotions that drive us. So really getting honest about Why do I want to create, let’s say, a million dollars? What is that going to be for? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And am I doing it to make myself feel better? Am I try am I doing it to prove a point to someone in fifth grade? Right? Like, should like that. Is right? Like, people do do things because of reasons that they were hurt in the past. And so honesty is really important because the only way to create a better futures to be really open about why. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like that. So, honestly, number one. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Being able to be uncomfortable with when shit goes wrong. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Speaker Ariana Jahja: I think so many so many of my clients, hit a pothole. So one of my clients said, you know, I I’ve hit a pothole, and I don’t know how to get out of it. And my answer was You’re gonna keep hitting potholes. It’s just how do you gracefully get out of that pothole? And, a, how can you look at the field, avoid potholes, And then when you do hit one, learn from the past potholes and get out of that one gracefully so that you can make it to the next level. I think so many people are not okay with being know, uncomfortable or wrong. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s funny. I just had this discussion with my, one of my kids on vacation. I don’t even remember what I don’t even remember what the story was, but I just said, you’ve gotta learn to be comfortable, being uncomfortable. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You know? And, doesn’t mean you like it. Yep. Right? Doesn’t mean I like when I hit a pothole. Yeah. You’re gonna hit a Speaker Ariana Jahja: positive. Exactly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So for me, I I call it strategic think time or STT. If you looked at my calendar right now, you’d see it on repeat every week, hour and a half. So ninety minutes, once a week, strategic thing time, that’s how I try to prevent puddles. Doesn’t, again, doesn’t mean that I’m going to not hit a pothole, but I’m trying to avoid it. Right? Yeah. So for me, again, it’s it’s journaling, it’s thinking it’s it’s trying to see the future even though that’s impossible, but trying to What what do you do personally to help you get to that next level? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Mhmm. For me, it’s, running It’s boxing. It’s it’s doing physical activity because what I have noticed, tracking. So to, you know, to go back to your point is, you know, in order to gracefully get out of those or avoid those potholes, is our our nervous system has to be regulated. And exercise is one of the best ways. I mean, sleep is number one. Okay. And so if you had to choose between sleep and exercise, Speaker Brett Gilliland: to sleep. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Always sleep. Sleep. Right. But exercise is really, really important because we release something called anandamide. They had an anandamide. And what that does is it helps with anxiety. And so if you have low anxiety, we’re more likely to obviously be better humans because we can connect with people more. We can get into flow states a lot more. And so for me, running is really is a lab. Right now. It used again, it used to be boxing, but now it’s more, you know, how can I push myself really, really hard during that run? So that I can take what I’m learning here now into the outside world. It’s a safe space for me to do that. So exercise for me for sure and then also getting getting my sleep. I don’t I don’t care what’s going on. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You’re eight hours a day person? Or are you, like, six, seven? Try at Speaker Ariana Jahja: least. Seven and a half? Yeah. Seems to be my my number. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I can I at seven? I’m like, good. Sometimes if I have too much sleep, I’m like, I’m actually tired. I agree. Speaker Ariana Jahja: I agree. I’m tired, Speaker Brett Gilliland: but — Yeah. — I have told myself to go to bed as I stated earlier. So you’ve you’ve mentioned it numerous times today. You you people that are into this personal growth stuff, you hear the flow state. Right? So define that for us. What does I mean, I I obviously clearly think I understand it, but I wanna hear from professional standpoint? How do you define what flow state means? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Sure. Yeah. So flow states are states where we feel and perform our best. They are different than meditation. So I’ll I’ll use meditation and flow. Right? So meditation, for example, we feel we might feel good. It might be hard, but we’re shutting off our pre our new brain, our prefrontal cortex. We’re trying to really decrease thoughts in class. Low states are states where the challenge of what we’re trying to do in the skill that we have are like in a goldilocks state. And so all of a sudden, we are losing sense of self. We are loo we’re in control. We feel in control because everything is falling in place. Right? And we are in the state where time doesn’t really exist the way that it usually does. Right? So we can think of maybe moments where you felt that way, but I I there plenty at times for, like, even dancing for me sometimes, it’s like, oh, I I know exactly what to do here. So I’m, like, in a flow state, but it’s it’s a cool feeling. Right? And so what we used to think is that it was just a switch where it’s like, okay, now I’m not in flow, now I’m flow. But what we’re learning and Again, the neuroscience behind this is it’s interesting, but nobody really actually knows what happens. If anyone tells you, I know exactly what happens. It’s not true. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Will be us. Speaker Ariana Jahja: But what we know is it’s a cycle. There are four stages we have to go through in order to be in flow. And and that’s what I coach people on as well is really teaching them if you are in this stage, what do you need to be doing to be in flow. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Can you tell us those stages? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Sure. So the first stage is the struggle phase. So during the struggle phase, you know, according to to Steven Copler. This is where we sit down to do a task, and it might feel really uncomfortable. This is the time when you’re like, oh, I don’t know this. You know, you just, you’re you get antsy, you Jahja get up, you wanna move. That’s because there’s a lot of cortisol, and norepinephrine, which is a type of adrenaline. And what happens is it it you don’t know how to do it and you have to focus. Right? And so that’s why you have cortisol in nore, norepinephrine because you have to focus on the task at hand, and now you have to use your working memory to say, how do I do this? And past memory to say, have I ever done anything like this before? Now, this is where the challenge skill comes in. If the challenge is too hard, gonna have too much anxiety. You’re not gonna be able to get into flow. So that’s we have to get through the struggle phase into release. And in release phase is when those moments when you’re like running or taking a shower and all of a sudden, all the stuff comes through. You’re like, oh my gosh. I know this answer and this answer, and this is what I should tell this client, and I don’t know if you’ve experienced that before. Speaker Brett Gilliland: The weirdest times. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So that’s the release phase. So we really wanna design our days where that’s where the recovery comes into is like, If you’re constantly trying to force solving a problem, it’s not gonna work. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: You have to walk away from the problem. Once you walk away from the problem, so for me running, I get downloads, I take my notes out, I type it, I go back to my desk, and I get into flow, because now I’ve had this. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That was your release. Yeah. So you’re taking notes while you’re running or you just check the number at all? Speaker Ariana Jahja: So most of the time, I take I’ll I’ll write down one word you know, to remember because as soon as I get back, I Jahja get back into flow. And then after flow, you have to recover because you are using up so much of the feel good chemicals that if you push it too far, you’re gonna have such a hard, come down It’s like, it’s literally you got all the best feeling drugs in your body. Right? You got the dopamine, you got serotonin, you got like all the all the goodies, right, oxytocin. And so all of a sudden, if you don’t recover, you’re gonna not do well the next day. Might wake up and you might feel like, oh, I feel depleted. I feel depressed. Right? And so the recovery piece is really important. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So that’s number three. Is that what’s the so number three is what? So you got struggle phase, release phase. Number three is flow. State. The flow. Okay. Yep. And then number four is the — Cover. — is recovery. And for you, recovery could be, it’s sleep, obviously. It it’s running. What else are you helping people with that you’re finding a lot Speaker Ariana Jahja: of great question. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Takeaways from recovery. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So recovery, we have active recovery and passive recovery. So active recovery, would be walking in nature. It would be, meditating. It would be taking a hot shower, an ice bath, And then passive recovery is more, you know, sitting sitting with friends, maybe, not alcohol. I not nothing against alcohol, and you love me some wine and and beer. But it’s not a good activity to recover. Right? Because it’s, T. V. Is not Speaker Brett Gilliland: from that recovery. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Exactly. TV is not a good recovery because you are actually your brain is actually active, and then takes you away out of the flow state. I hear Speaker Brett Gilliland: I hear too not to read a really exciting, like, for me, I love reading business books, but I hear, like, even though it’s good to read in bed before you go to sleep, sometimes you can hear that it’s not great to necessarily read the business book because I find myself — Yes. — there’s an idea Now I sit there for the next thirty minutes instead of falling asleep, I’m thinking in my I’m already designing what I need to be doing for that thing. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you agree with that? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Yeah. Because you’re almost kind of getting into a flow state there because you’re like I’m trying to solve the problem and Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Ariana Jahja: you know, you don’t have so the release might happen during your sleep. Right? And so, one of the things that is really fun that I will say is delegating to your unconscious. Right? So if you do have big business problems and you want your unconscious to solve for it, especially when you’re in sleep. Write the question down and then let it go. So it’s called the macgyver method. So saying, you know, what should I do about this client? Gilliland then you write down. Okay. I’m going to come back to this question tomorrow at 8AM. And what’s gonna happen is your unconscious is gonna start solving for it through pattern recognition and sleep because of me doing rem sleep is actually where we solve a lot of our problems. And so if we don’t get that rem sleep, we wake up more stressed. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Right. So so it’s actually going on in our minds, right, that even we’re sound asleep, have no idea That’s when you wake up with those ideas. It’s because our brain is working even when we don’t know it. Yeah. That’s amazing. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And that’s the part to be honest is that I I struggle with with a lot of leaders is when they have a hard time letting go. And I’ll you know, a lot of our problem solving, a lot of our greatness happens when we are not doing the thing. And so when we see people who packed their calendars and who are always doing the next and next and next. Yeah. It’s because they’re trying to control too much. They’re trying to control with what? They’re prefrontal cortex, the new brain. Not allowing the unconscious to do what it needs to do in order to solve for what needs to be solved. Right? So we we pushed you hard and we don’t allow. Eve. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s fascinating stuff, Jeff. Jeff, our producer over here. He’s kicking butt. So the the circuits of success are your attitude, your belief system, the actions that you have to take to get results, right, whatever those results are in your life. That’s that’s the whole point of this podcast. So when you hear me say the word action, I wanna lead with this, is I find sometimes where I get frustrated is the it’s the whole paralysis by analysis. Right? People have to over analyze everything. They have to have all the answers before they just do something. And I believe Not that I’m always right. Mhmm. But I believe sometimes you just have to take action. Right? Build the bridge as you’re crossing the river. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: But a lot of people can’t do that. So what thoughts actions, takeaways, advice would you have for somebody that just is constantly being paralyzed by overanalyzing everything. Speaker Ariana Jahja: So good. Yeah. Well, be be one complexity in life. Complexity is what helps us gather information and take that information and then decide the next step. So I think for people who want the, you know, the right answer, have it perfect, you know, just say, there is no right answer. There’s only learning And I think the more action you can take, the more of an evolved human being you become because, you know, the information that we get, we then curate and calibrate Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yep. — become the next level. So when you’re stuck in the analysis pro paralysis is really, you know, What’s the what’s the first step? What’s the smallest little tiny step that you can take that feels safe? And then from that, take all the other steps. Because what I see people do is like they’re trying to go from one to fifteen. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s true. Speaker Ariana Jahja: When they haven’t haven’t done one, two, three, four. Right? I was just coaching my husband on this last night. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you were coaching him. Yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Because he was like, oh, I’m gonna do this. And I’m like, okay, but you skipped step five six seven. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: So, you know, let’s get back to it, but there’s a whole podcast and if you should or should not coach your spouse. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Listen to that. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Usually, I well, I should try that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m getting coached. So I read something you talked about, Mirneuron, Neuroon, So what is that? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Yeah. So I love that. So we all have of these neurons that if we try to be they match how the other person’s neurobiology is, happening. Right? So if you are if your nervous system is relaxed and I come in to have to talk to to you, I will mirror that energetically. So fascinating. Right? And so I don’t know if you can think of situations, right, where, like, you walk into a room and you’re so stressed and someone is really calm and you’re like, I wanna be around this person. Right. Maybe you’re an maybe a dog or, you know, like, just being around them. And then the opposite. I’ll say Speaker Brett Gilliland: flip side could also happen. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Absolutely. Right? If you have a leader who’s always stressed and going on fumes, you’re gonna feel that. You don’t they don’t even have to say anything. You’re just even on Zoom. Like, I know for myself, some of my clients, I feel them on Zoom. Yeah. And I get, like, Speaker Brett Gilliland: the vibes. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So it’s like how do you put walls up and how do you breathe through these situations is really, really important as well, so you don’t get their energy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I think you just said breathe through their that situation too is, I think, is is important because for me, meditation is not just sitting in a quiet room. In breathing. Right? Meditation can act be active. I call it active meditations. I can be in a meeting with something. And if I’m feeling that stress, come, like, I could be meditating right now when you’re talking and you not know it. Right? I think if we get really good at breathing, the more we breathe, because I think we’re all as human beings, we’re we’re shallow breathers. Right? We just breathe fast and a lot. I think it’s just slowing down even in a meeting and taking that deep breath. Where it doesn’t have to be awkward or obvious, but just slow down. Take a breath. Right? And to your point there on the, mirror neurons, I read in a book a long time ago when I was starting a business is that it’s and I’m assuming this is scientifically proven, but you can feel somebody’s energy from their heart, like, within, like, ten or fifteen. Yeah. So, you know, you see that hole or hear the, you can feel when they walk. You know when somebody walks in a room. Like, you know that energy. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So my question to that is there are also days you may not have the energy that you know you need to have as as well trained and studied and and equipped as you are. There’s still days you don’t wanna do it. Right? So how do we get through those days, you don’t wanna do it and still bring that good positive vibe and that energy. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. I think that the breath breath is really, really important. I think if you can really figure out how to breathe your way into energy, right? So so there are certain as you can do that. I think for me, I think Huberman talks about the, psychological sigh. That’s one that always saves me, especially if sometimes I just wanna respond and react and I go, so if you ever see me doing that, I’m like, okay, trying to get energy to to respond, but yeah, there there are going to be days, we’re gonna have to push through. And I think it’s it’s going to be important to remember the why And remember, and give you, and give yourself grace, you know, that you might not be perfect that day. But if you have a history of showing up strong, for your people and you have one day off and being vulnerable and saying, you know, I’m I’m tired today or I’m struggling with this today. You know, I think that try to fake it too much. It’s it’s very obvious, and I think it confuses people. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s the that old saying fake it till you make it. That I get that, but it also somewhat annoys me. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Absolutely. Same. Speaker Brett Gilliland: How about we just be transparent and vulnerable and go out and build relationships Gilliland good things will happen? So, last few things here, Whitney, said to me, I I asked her about you. Obviously, I was doing my research. And I said, what’s what’s one of her? What’s one of the best things about Ariana? And she said, your unique, abilities, how the uniqueness about you is how you help leaders move from their old ways to their new ways. At such a rapid pace. And and I think that’s a very big compliment, right, because it’s the old can’t teach an old dog new tricks, but that’s what you’re doing every single day. Right? And so What is it about you that helps me, people like me get to point a to point b or point z, quicker and and in a better way? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Well, I like to always talk about the, well, that’s nice of her to say. I love that. I like to talk about the eighty twenty rule, right, where, you know, the eighty percent of Can I custom this button? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, yeah. Okay. It cuts away. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Eighty percent of the shit that you’re doing that’s holding you back. Right? And really looking at what’s the twenty percent of things that I want to do that’s making me feel amazing. Right? And so, again, going back to the beginning of the conversation, it’s really what am I going to start saying no to? And then also, what am I going to exploit in my life? What are the projects that I’m gonna go really deep, and I’m going to learn how to get into flow doing these things. Right? Instead of doing them all. Tend to say, you know, we, and then we end up being so overwhelmed that we don’t do anything a hundred percent. Right? So eighty twenty rule is really, really great of, you know, what are the eighty percent of things in my life that I’m doing that I don’t need to be doing that are taking me away from getting to where I’m trying to go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So, if we have our friend, Jeff here, follow you around these amazing cameras that he’s got, if we what were what were the things we would see out of your life? We followed you around, you know, for the next two or three days, no missed items that you’re doing to be at your peak performance. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Okay. So I think one of the things Get Speaker Brett Gilliland: energy on this one, you know, I see that. She’s she’s like, I got a good Well, Speaker Ariana Jahja: and I I have to be honest. It’s It’s a work in progress. Like, it’s one thing to know theory, and it’s another thing to practice that theory. So I won’t I won’t lie every day of my life. I this is my my lab. Yeah. Right? It’s like, let me try let me test this out to see how I feel. Am I living in and integrity with what I teach. Right? And so one of the main things is really being clear on my goals. So The last in our team is amazing. She is very good at, like, identifying. Okay. This is what’s priority this month. This is what’s priority this quarter. And then I do that with everything in my life is to say, what’s important to me this month so that I can filter everything through today to say Is it the eighty percent or is it is it the twenty percent? Right? So which things do I need to say yes to in order to get to that goal faster? Be through leverage. And so, My calendar is everything. I I write everything down, and follow that and and and take naps. If you follow me, I I take a lot of naps. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you’re you’re okay just shutting it down in the middle of day and just I Speaker Ariana Jahja: have learned to. It was really hard before because I feel that energy. Like, I’ll lay down. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Is it like an hour or like ten minutes? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Oh, no. It’s like, typically, my ring says fifteen minutes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Sleep twenty five minutes laying down because it takes me a while. So so laying down and you feel the energy flowing through you. Like, it’s processing. So I if I had a client, it was a really challenging call, I’ll lay down, and I’m like, turn off my brain, and I feel their energy coming through me, the ideas of, like, shedding, if there’s anything toxic needs to be, like, go off. That that’s probably my Number one, that and running has been my number one fuel to be at a higher level doing projects that I’m doing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like to You know, I’ve saw recently. I think I might buy them because I keep thinking about them. Are these smart, the smart goggles? Have you seen those things? They’re like like the they’re like a big They’re like goggles. You can’t see through them, but they’re like, they do heat. They do cool. They do some massage. They do meditation stuff. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Wow. I have never heard this. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. They’re through that thera body. You know, like, the guns that you can do in your muscles. It’s the same company. And, I’m not paid to say that. I just and I’ve never even used them, so I don’t even know if they it could be a gimmick for all I know. Sorry there about it if you’re listening. But, I think I’m gonna get them because I think to your point of that slowing down some of that stuff can be very impactful. I don’t know why I said that, but I but I did Speaker Ariana Jahja: because I think Speaker Brett Gilliland: it’s important to to slow like I said, slow down. I don’t take naps, but that breathing thing for me is a Speaker Ariana Jahja: big Right. And it doesn’t have to be a nap. It is just sitting down to allow your physical body to process would just happen. Yeah. And especially if you’re trying to move fast, right, it’s like, you have to stop and process what happens. We can transition into the next thing. So transitions are really important to to to say, you know, I’m visualizing where I’m going next. How do I need to show up? And how can I process what just happened so I can step into this next Speaker Brett Gilliland: So talk to us about glow? How are you all helping people? Let’s let’s brag about glow for a while. Your guys’ office is amazing, by the way. Speaker Ariana Jahja: It’s cool. Right? All the all the pink? Yeah. Yeah. It’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: very cool. Just the building, the the entrance to your, to your office space. It’s cool. You Speaker Ariana Jahja: would think we work with all women, but we don’t. We don’t. We just allow men to embrace their feminine, which, you know, it’s it’s healthy. So so glow, The the thing that attracted me to glow at the most is that, you know, when we look at where we are right now today, is there is so much power. So many businesses have so much power, and I believe that most humans are good. But when you look at what’s happening sometimes with the way that wealth and power are distributed, it it worries me. Right? But I also at the core belief that people are doing the best that they know how to. And I think it’s just going to be getting people in place to support the transfer And so what really attracted me to to with me in SLS is, like, they fundamentally understand that, that, you know, they can come in and they it doesn’t have to be a rigidity to say, you know, do x y z, but follow that energy, follow that next right step, even though it might not be so great on paper. Right? But they they understand that fundamentally that, you know, there are ways to do that. And there’s a there’s a lot of work to be done. Yep. A lot of work to be done. And so I’m really excited about that. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: you’re helping people what I always talk about getting people off the treadmill of life. Right? Yeah. Slow down. Your busy leader, slow down. Let’s think where are we going. Clarity, you talked about that earlier. I think for any of us, they’re business leaders and and even leading our homes. Right? Just clarity on what the goal is. Yeah. Right? How do we want these kids to be raised? Is a is a big deal. So Well, Speaker Ariana Jahja: and one more thing I will just add to is, you know, playfulness. I think part part of, you know, with with glow too is the pink and the, and there’s a little bit of playfulness in all of this. Like, let’s not be so serious. And this is kind of my, you know, I wouldn’t say this is lows, but this is my, value as don’t ever take anything so fucking serious that you’re going to, like, be miserable over it. Right? Like there there’s this playfulness in life that we need to embrace. Because I think what we’ve done too much, so is gone too much to the right side of, like, everything has to be perfect. And The lightness and the fun has gotten lost a little bit. Right? And so that’s the other thing is, like, we we bring a little bit of, like, hey, let’s go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love that because Tim and I talk about that at work a lot is, like, if we start stop laughing — Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — we’re done. Like, have fun, man. It’s two damn serious. You know? What’s, like, Speaker Ariana Jahja: That’s why I have to go dance and Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Ariana Jahja: let it all out. Right? Like you get your energy there. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. I love it. So where do our listeners find more of you? Speaker Ariana Jahja: So I am primarily on Instagram. Okay. That’s that’s my that’s my jam, and then also of course on LinkedIn. And our glow website, on there as well. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So we’re gonna play a game. Speaker Ariana Jahja: I’m sorry. Ultimate Podcast. Called the glow accelerator podcast. Speaker Brett Gilliland: The glow accelerator podcast. We’ll put all this in the show notes. It’ll be there. I just pulled up your Instagram here. So Pick a number between one and ten. We’re gonna play an Instagram game that we’re doing. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Let’s do seven. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Now between one and three, grab grab a number between one and three. Number two. Alright. You got somebody as surfing. Somebody is, you guys are doing some bench jumps, you’re on a beach, it looks like. You’re having Speaker Ariana Jahja: some Speaker Brett Gilliland: sometimes stepping away from the day to day can bring the most growth. We’ve been talking about that today. Recab of our family trip to San Diego and oceanside. I had figured out that play slash work trip with intention and purpose is my favorite kind of trip for me. Made some incredible connections and decisions ready to tackle the next quarter. So this is exactly what we’ve just been talking about, right? By this arena? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. That’s why Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love this. Talk to me about your trip to San Diego, oceanside. What was so amazing about it? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Well, my husband is originally from, California. He grew up in California. He was born here, but so a, you know, he’s a total California boy. So he was in his zone, if you will. So that was really cool. It was my son’s first time going to California, and I just love the ocean. It’s just something about the ocean where, like, it just relaxes you. It puts you in your place, you know, in Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, some grounding. Right? I mean, it’s not grounding. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Like, It it just makes you feel gratitude and connection. And my cousin from Germany came, and so she was with us, and I hadn’t seen her in years. So a very special trip I got. Actually, this is where I got this tattoo because, you know, palm trees are very resilient if there’s a storm or hurricane or whatever. It might be comes right back up and so that’s kinda I try to live my life is, you know, just gonna bring you down. But you don’t if you are so strong at your core Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yep. — you can go through anything. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. I love it. Speaker Ariana Jahja: I love Speaker Brett Gilliland: where Annie has been awesome having you on the surge of success podcast. Thank you so much for being verse.

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Katie Collier, the owner of Katie’s Pizza and Pasta Osteria. At 20, Katie created the business plan for the first and original location, Katie’s Pizzeria, with a dream to bring hand-made, in-house artisan and Neapolitan pizza to St. Louis. Under the ownership of her father, Tom Lee, Katie’s Pizzeria opened its doors in February 2008. She recently opened her 3rd location in Ballpark Village in Downtown St. Louis. When COVID-19 hit, and dining rooms across the country closed, Katie acted fast. She and her team immediately began freezing and selling their pizzas to save the restaurants and protect the livelihood of Katie’s team. They now ship their pizza throughout the U.S. and their products are available in grocery stores nationwide. Katie shares her journey from opening this pizzeria in St. Louis in 2008 to becoming homeless and eventually finding sobriety. She talks about the importance of thinking big and believing in yourself and encourages entrepreneurs to never give up. https://youtu.be/ZfLSvypx4V8 Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success podcast. The Circuitive Success podcast. With your host. Brett? Brett? Brett. Brett, go over there. Brett, Gilliland visionary wealth advisory. The circuit of success podcast, to start the show. Welcome to the Circive Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, I’ve got Katie call you with me. Katie, what’s going on? Speaker Katie Collier: Not much. I’m here and I’m excited. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You’re here and excited. We’re excited to have you. Speaker Katie Collier: Thank you. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You break away from the restaurant to get over here. Speaker Katie Collier: The restaurant and the five year old. And the five year old. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s that’s the hardest part. The five year old. Right? We gotta get Katie’s, pizza and pasta to Illinois. Speaker Katie Collier: I get asked so much. I mean, everyone says of Allen, Illinois. So Right. I know I might do couple laps while I’m here. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You heard it here folks right here. No. We won’t we won’t hold you to that, but it’s a great community. Speaker Katie Collier: For rents. Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: We can help you with that. Well, you are Katie Collier. You’re the owner of Katie’s Gilliland Pasta. You have an amazing new location at ballpark Village. Holy crap. Speaker Katie Collier: Wow. That’s really cool. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I saw you there on opening day. And, we talked and, just I’ve been back a couple times, and it’s phenomenal. I mean, it’s just the coolest thing ever. You gotta be so proud. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Just to be right next to the stadium and that energy. Yeah. It’s really great. And the space is Huge. And, we just went all out. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s so well decorated. It just looks it doesn’t feel like you’re in downtown Saint Louis. Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, I don’t think so. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It doesn’t. Yeah. So if you’ve done a great job. Well, if you can, we could talk about that all day. I’m sure. But if you can, I always like to start every podcast what’s made you the person you are today, which is a very big loaded question I know? Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: But you’ve gotta tell the story. So if you can, let’s Speaker Katie Collier: start. Let’s start Speaker Brett Gilliland: healing back that onion layer talking about who Katie Collier is. Speaker Katie Collier: Obviously, parents are very key. Yeah. I have some really unique crazy ones. My mom’s not crazy. My dad’s passed, so I’m allowed to calm crazy. You can be crazy now. But, crazy in a good way. Just really unique, wonderful people. And then I think going through some painful experiences, one of my dad’s quotes was pain is the only teacher, you know. And so, I’ve been through some stuff with addiction and losing people and all the things that we all go through in life. And I think, tried to learn my lessons from those, and they definitely made me I am today. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, you are you’re pretty open about your story. So I don’t feel like I I feel like there’s a lot of questions I can ask because it’s all things I’ve read about anyways. So But talk to our listeners about that because I think your story is amazing because they see you now. Right? And I didn’t know all the stuff about you, I just knew this Katie and she owned this restaurant. It’s awesome. And she’s gotten into frozen pizzas now and other things all over the country. And so you hear this amazing story, these super successful businesses that in a in a business, it’s really hard to be successful. Right? So you’re doing a great job, but they don’t see the Katie at fifteen years old and seventeen and twenty five. Right? Speaker Katie Collier: Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So if we can, let’s talk a little bit about So you worked at a restaurant, fifteen years old? Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Well, I dropped out of high school, dropped out, and then started working in restaurants. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And never went back and got your education Right? Speaker Katie Collier: No. I did not. Yeah. Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So fifth so basically a sophomore in high Speaker Katie Collier: school. Yeah. Which, you know, I think I’m kind of smart, but there’s things that I do not you can tell. You’re like, oh, she’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: She did not Speaker Katie Collier: go back. Finish math class. I hate school. Okay. Speaker Brett Gilliland: God for iPhones now. Right? We’re nice, Siri or whoever to do everything. Speaker Katie Collier: I do all of that. But I did start working. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: And I, got into restaurants for a couple of reasons. One was they take anybody. You don’t need a degree. And number two, I had an aunt, Zoe Robinson, who owned, restaurants, and she was very successful. And so I was like, well, you know, without a degree, I can follow in those footsteps. So, yeah, but I learned so much about life in restaurants and started really early. So I had a leg up on everybody, I think. Yeah. I Speaker Brett Gilliland: was a bartender in Collier, and I thought it was one of the best jobs. And, You do learn a lot about people. Speaker Katie Collier: You learn a lot about people. Problem solving. I know. Problem solving and multitasking and just the whole. It’s like everything. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And then, so fifteen to twenty four, I believe, stayed working restaurant business. And then it was at twenty four years old? You started your first restaurant. Speaker Katie Collier: Right? And in between there, I did live in Italy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Katie Collier: So that’s where the inspiration came from. My mother’s an artist, and she ran a study abroad program in Florence. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, wow. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. And so she an apartment there, and she’s like, if you can you know, save up for a plane ticket and spending money. You can come live with me. So she lived there off and on for maybe like don’t know if it’s between five or ten years, but many Gilliland we would go and spend time with her there. Yeah. And that’s where That’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: the feel of Katie’s pizza and pasta. Speaker Katie Collier: That’s where I fell in love with really cool Italian food, the real stuff. And I wrote a business plan at twenty, actually, for Katie’s pizza after going to Italy for the first time. And I actually went and found a space in the loop, got an architect to do like a simple space plan. And wasn’t even old enough for a liquor license and obviously Speaker Brett Gilliland: kinda need that for a restaurant. Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: But nobody obviously would invest in me. But the idea started at twenty. And then by twenty four, I had worn worn my father down Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Katie Collier: as we do as daughters do. And, said, can you, like, we gotta do this? And I was newly sober at twenty four for the first time. That’s the key word there the first time. Yeah. So fifteen to Speaker Brett Gilliland: twenty four, you Speaker Katie Collier: were Yeah. I was drinking and using it it was horrible. But I was young. So, like, what kinda went unnoticed. Yeah. You know? Because everybody’s kind of a mess. Right. Yeah. But I knew that it was bad enough to get sober at twenty four. And then, my father has been had been sober since I was two. So he had been sober for, like, Speaker Brett Gilliland: basically your whole life. Speaker Katie Collier: My whole life. So he was really proud. And, I was like, let’s at the time, we were He was in the junk business. Yes. Growing up. So he was a salvage junk guy. And, he’s like, well, let’s start with. You can can open a little junk store together. So we did. We called it we it had no phone number. It had no name. It’s just this weird, like, bad antique store. And, after doing that for about a year, I wore them down and said, come on. Let’s do this pizza place, and There’s these really amazing ingredients in Italy that nobody’s using in the US or St. Louis, like, really no one knew what Presciutto was when I opened up in two thousand eight. We had to explain it to everybody. Yeah. Now it’s the internet. Yeah. Now it’s everywhere. And I was doing squash blossoms and figs and stuff. So he said, okay, let’s do it. I’m gonna invest fifty thousand dollars to build it. And I I mean, the time I thought that was so much money because I had no money. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Katie Collier: So I thought that’s great. We can totally do it. And we actually did. We just really just bought the pizza oven, and then we just moved all the furniture from the junk store into the into yeah. And I don’t know if you ever went to that one. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I don’t think I have. Speaker Katie Collier: Okay. But every table and chair was different in mismatch. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, yes. I have. Yes. I have. Yes. Speaker Katie Collier: So, it really was a hole in the wall. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: And, he there was a, and there was a issue, which was I’m gonna put up the fifty, but I’m gonna keep a hundred percent. And at the time, I was like, he’s, you know, he’s You’re newly sober. You’re twenty four. We’re not. Yeah. It’s my money. This will be, you know, work your way, sweat equity, and, eventually, I’ll give you some And, he never did, but it was like the best thing ever because Speaker Brett Gilliland: You you darn Speaker Katie Collier: it. In here I am today. And I think if he would have given it all to me, I would never understand what goes into it. That’s true. That’s true. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I tell my boys all the time. Like, my oldest is getting ready to go to college in in a year, and then he wants to get in the finance business. And I said, You need to go work somewhere else — Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, for sure. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — you know, go get your butt kicked somewhere else, and then you can come back maybe some other day, but Speaker Katie Collier: Just for your relationship. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Exactly. Speaker Katie Collier: But, so we opened up. It was a huge success because again, I was doing, like, all this crazy stuff on pizza, and it was all about you know, these regional specialty ingredients that I had learned about when I lived there. And then my drinking got really, really bad because I had all this attention. I thought I was really special. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Cool girl. New cool Speaker Katie Collier: girl. Yeah. And, also the stress and the pressure and the whole thing, it was too much for me. And I just spiraled spiraled spiral got kicked out of the business. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Fired by your own dad. Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: A tough conversation. Speaker Katie Collier: It’s happened many times by the fourth or time we were used to it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Here we go again. I get inspired. Speaker Katie Collier: And then the spiral got so bad that I ended up homeless homeless homeless, like nothing. Like, I no car, no phone, no money, everything I owned I had in a grocery bag, and I would just carry that everywhere I went. And my family and friends, like, They were all done, like totally done. And I remember the last I always talk about this. The I finally decided to get sober when I was like, mom, come on, like, let me stay with you. I have nowhere to go. I’ve been, like Speaker Brett Gilliland: Do you live in shelters, basically? Speaker Katie Collier: I was just literally Speaker Brett Gilliland: on the side Speaker Katie Collier: of the road. No. I was just living with, like, Speaker Brett Gilliland: Whoever. Speaker Katie Collier: Couches. You know? And then, but she was like, no. That’s it. We’re done. And so I think when mom Everyone’s turned their back on you. You gotta look at yourself. Yeah. Turn inward. And that was amazing because, you know, those really dark painful places are the only places really that you do look at yourself. Yeah. So I did And I was like, okay. Where am I gonna go? And I found a halfway house on South Broadway. And I went and checked in there, and I lived there for six months. Yeah. It was a really bad part of town. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I read someplace. Maybe it was our Hannibal Missouri stop Speaker Katie Collier: there was there was for a couple of days, like, Speaker Brett Gilliland: change smoking cigarettes and something I read. Speaker Katie Collier: It just in a room, and I was, yeah, that was right before that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. I ended up in the there’s a, like, a state run, treatment center in Han ball. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: I’d been to treatments before. I’d been in in hospitals and treatment centers before the nice treatment centers. And this was the end of the stage where you go to the state run one. And then finally, you end up in the halfway house. So and all of the women that were in the halfway house were out of prison or just off the streets. It was not like someone’s neighbor who just had a drinking problem. Like, these were people absolutely nothing left. So I lived there for six months, took the bus to Katie’s Gilliland got my job back, and you know, just did that until Speaker Brett Gilliland: Under you. Under you. So what do you think? I’m always fascinated. My wife and I, we had a date last night and this actually came up We were talking about I don’t even remember what we what we’ve brought up, but we were talking about something and how life can go one of well, many directions. Right? But you have You have kids that grow up super successful families. Right? Had everything, and they grow up and can be deadbeats. Right? You have kids that grow up super successful families and continue the success. You have people Right? You see where I’m going. You have people that had nothing that were successful. If you have not and you you took something, to a level that most don’t. Right? One, I think I saw what was it? Ninety five percent of people don’t recover from alcoholism and drugs. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. I think that’s a very generous statistic too. Yeah. Yeah. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: ninety five to ninety eight, ninety nine percent. Right? Don’t. You did. You also came from nothing. Again, one more research. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Not I wouldn’t call it nothing because when you look at there’s nothing nothing, but I would say, you know, there were times we didn’t have a car, like, with my dad’s house. We all slept on a mattress on the ground with no furniture for a couple of years. And eventually, like, there would be good times and everything. So I wouldn’t say I hate to say like dirt poor, but I would say, yeah. We didn’t have I never got a car when I was sixteen. I never went on any trips. Hand me down clothes. That kind Speaker Brett Gilliland: of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, again, you’ve taken it now to this level. Right? Right. So what is it about you? Do you think that’s inside you? Said, you know what? I’m gonna take it to this level. I can do this. Speaker Katie Collier: I’m an optimistic person. Like, I think I’m just really optimistic. And, I’ve seen my dad was just such a tough guy. He was so tough. Yeah. Really tough. And he always made it work, and he always, like, hustled really, really hard. So Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think that grit that hustles is everything. Right? Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: In any business. Speaker Katie Collier: Like, he would do anything. Yeah. You know, he was really tough. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Would you also believe this statement that if if I said all pizza places had to close tomorrow. Right? That’ll never happen. But if they all had to close, you had to go to a completely different business. Pick the business, you would still make it, wouldn’t you? Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, yeah. Because it’s all really about problem solving, managing people. Inspiring people and really, like, marketing. I’m really good at marketing. Yeah. The food is great. I mean, I’m all in about the food. The unions, everything. Yeah. But, no, it’s really about leadership because I have three hundred people that work for me. And if you’re not a good person, to work for or inspire, like, you can’t I can’t be in three three locations and a frozen pizza place making stuff. I need these people to help. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: And you can’t touch all three hundred people at the same time, and Speaker Katie Collier: then you go days and weeks without them. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right? Yeah. No. Exactly. Speaker Katie Collier: No. I want them to do it. It’s so cool to see people do really empowered, and they’re like feel very they there’s people that have been with me for ten plus years that really feel like they’re. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. They’re family. Speaker Katie Collier: They’re family. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think as a leader, right? We have to show the vision, build it, and then get out of the way. Speaker Katie Collier: Yes. Absolutely. Yep. Yeah. Getting out of the way is the hardest lesson for, I think, business owners, entrepreneurs get it. But, yeah, you gotta get out of the way, and you gotta let them fail, and you gotta pay the price to let them fail. And then they become so great. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So, again, back to the early days of the of the restaurant. And, you had to raise some money. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You had to do that. That’s not easy do. Speaker Katie Collier: No. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you raised money, and a lot of it was on a on a handshake. Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, yeah. So I didn’t Again, you Speaker Brett Gilliland: didn’t have really much bank not gonna be like, hey, here’s a million bucks. Speaker Katie Collier: Right? Right? Right? No. No. Not to me. They didn’t. Yeah. And they’re like, do you even have a bank account? How do we where do we put this money? So I did a kit. So I was trying to figure out how to raise money I’m really into marketing, and I really know that you need to get attention Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Katie Collier: to get to find these people. So someone had mentioned crowd funding. I look into it and I thought, okay, that’s really great. Not so much for the amount of money I’m gonna raise on Kickstarter because it’s not enough to build a restaurant. But, I’m gonna get a lot of attention for this and attract the investors. So that was really my motivation behind it. Because I just didn’t know anybody or know how to find the people because I wasn’t in that world. Right. So I did a Kickstarter campaign and we raised forty thousand dollars, which was, you know, enough for a wood fired pizza oven. And then I put at the top of the page for traditional investment opportunities, contact Katie’s Pizza at Gmail, and I got we got tons of people. Yeah. Because it was just it was right when You Speaker Brett Gilliland: didn’t tell a story, though. Right? Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, we told a great story. And, I wrote a great, you know, business plan and, like, the whole page was beautiful thoughts of pictures and videos and, like, what we were trying to do. And, It was really cool. Speaker Brett Gilliland: The people with money see that. And they say People Speaker Katie Collier: with money see that. And they also know that I’ve had this restaurant — Yeah. — quote unquote. Yeah. Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You made that out Speaker Katie Collier: of it. For, like, four or five years, and they are they love that restaurant, and they love me and all of this stuff. So they found it, and We got all these people. A couple became IOU handshake loans. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: And we paid them back in two years, which was great. And then the last piece of the puzzle was Michael Cupstas, and he’s he was he had just retired from Panera. He was the vice president of franchise. And he took them from, like, fifty locations to, like, two thousand. So he’s a really talented, amazing person. And he said, I re I’m just come back to me if you need if I wanna be I wanna have equity and we were really holding off at the end, we needed a little bit more and we knew if we were gonna do it with anybody, it’d be him. Yeah. So we sold him twenty percent. And he was the best best partner ever. Just such a wonderful person, and I’m still really good friends with him. I ended up buying him out, a couple of years ago. But we still talk all the time. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s so big to have a mentor like that too. Right? I’ve done it. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. And he just was such a fan, and he always said, you know, I’ve always wanted to work with you. I followed you. And so this was it was cool. Yeah. Yeah. It was really great. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I think Speaker Katie Collier: he gave us a lot of credibility with banks too. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: Like that was we just brought in my Yeah. Mister got upset. All over Speaker Brett Gilliland: the door, but you’re gonna go in Speaker Katie Collier: and sit right next Speaker Brett Gilliland: to me and just talk. And I’ll be quiet. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. And I learned so much from him about that world. And, leases. And, yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, yeah, again, we talked about education earlier, but you think that your business education will blow I mean, offense to the people that are in, you know, education, the but that that business degree that you have — Yeah. — degree you have. Speaker Katie Collier: Still getting. I’m Speaker Brett Gilliland: still getting every single day is priceless. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. I’m getting it. Yeah. Every single day, and I’ve had a co I’ve had a business fail, Verome, you’ll kick company. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: And, then a new frozen pizza business and scaling and It’s a lot. It’s really cool. And I Speaker Brett Gilliland: saw a video maybe on social media. You and your brother making some calls or going to a conference or something, wasn’t it? Speaker Katie Collier: And you gotta even Speaker Brett Gilliland: get a cell Speaker Katie Collier: at the grocery store. Right? Yeah. You’ve gotta get so we’re in hundred stores across the country. Our goal is to be in every grocery store in the next five years, and it’s totally gonna happen. Yeah. We have to go to these expos and, you know, you meet with the grocers and the buyers and the brokers and everything. And so that’s in whole another world. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s crazy. Speaker Katie Collier: And then we’ve got, a beverage coming out. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Nice. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: What kind of beverage? Speaker Katie Collier: So we’re known for yeah. It’s it’s in, production right now. So we did all of the everything, designed the can, and, the recipe and everything. Our watermelon cocktail. I don’t this is what we’re known for. So that and then a basil margarita. Oh, wow. I know. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Can’t wait. Speaker Katie Collier: I know. That’s awesome. So those will be in Dearburgs, and those will be in selling out of the, restaurants. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s cool. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. We’ll see where that goes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Walk up window. You can buy one. Speaker Katie Collier: I know. Well, we have one. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So let’s talk about how important it is to think big. Yeah. I I think I’ve thankfully I I think I’ve thought big most of my career and and I think that’s really helped. I when I think about your locations and and what you’ve done, I I keep bringing up ballpark village because it’s new. I’ve obviously been to the other ones as well. But You you have to think big, but you also have to believe big and believe in yourself. Yeah. So when you hear those things, what comes to mind for you? Speaker Katie Collier: I think it just gets the energy of yourself and everyone around you moving in that direction so it’s inevitable that it’s gonna happen. Yeah. That’s the way I look at it. Like, you can call it manifestation, and I don’t think it’s like a magical thing, like you wish something, and then you get someone waves a wand, and it happens. I think what’s happening is you’re you’re moving your life and your energy and people in that direction. Gilliland you’re just it’s amazing how it just kind of happens. And really thinking so big. I mean, if you even get close enough to or not or just short, you’re still pretty successful. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And you said it confidently, in humbly, but But, also, I think you just say it because this is how you believe, like, I’m going to be in every grocery store in America. Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And it’s going to happen. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. And you say it, and you Speaker Brett Gilliland: like, I believe it. Right? Feel the energy. I believe you you believe it? I believe it. And so, talk about that, though. Why? Speaker Katie Collier: Because I I like I said, I just believe that I’m moving my energy in that direction, and I also know that really anything is I just feel like anything’s possible. And you just have to have that positive attitude and keep trying. And, I think entrepreneurs really just never give up. So if you never get that’s how we’re successful is because everyone else just gives up. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You’re exactly right. Speaker Katie Collier: We’re not smarter. We just keep keep going. It’s like when I did the business plan at twenty, but you know, everyone said no for four years. A lot of people would be like, okay, that’s enough. No. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Nobody’s gonna do this. This is a bad idea. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Yeah. And it just did Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s funny. I I just I had this, discussion all the time with my Gilliland they now it’s the old dad thing. Oh, here we go again. You know, but it’s, you know, the old how do you spell, impossible? Have you heard that before? No. So how do you spell impossible? It’s I’m possible. Speaker Katie Collier: Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right? So I’m impossible. And so I always try to tell it to my kids, and I just believe that that that And and and you said your energy is going there. So when you say my energy is going there, what does that mean to you? Speaker Katie Collier: I think subconsciously, I just start to act in a certain way or start to accomplish certain things and start to move in that direction of achieving that goal. I think your subconscious is very Gilliland so you have to, like, say stuff and believe stuff. And then all of a sudden, you start, you start to make a turn in that direction. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I just read something the other day on some entrepreneur deal on one of this guy. I don’t believe with this. I don’t believe this comment, but he said, don’t tell anybody your plans because there’s so many negative people out there that just shuts it down. Speaker Katie Collier: I know. I don’t ever understand that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I don’t either. So I’m glad you didn’t Speaker Katie Collier: do that. Or, like, we need to don’t tell anybody because you know, they need to sign. I’m like, what are you talking about? Who cares? Tell everybody. Well, I think I think also you have to tell everybody because you never know who’s gonna say, oh my gosh, that’s exactly what I wanna do too, or I believe in you. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yep. And I think to the grit, what we were talking about earlier is that even if you do tell somebody about this new cocktail thing you’re making and I get the idea, Do I really have the stamina to go out and do it and build it and and make it happen? Speaker Katie Collier: No. No. I always it’s so funny. We have our dough recipes and all of our recipes posted, like, in the kitchen. And some a manager that we had hired was like, oh my gosh. Like, you can’t have that. Someone’s gonna take it and go, I’m like, go ahead. See you. There’s so many levels to this. It’s the people. It’s the story of our family. It’s you know, everything, and you can’t recreate it. You can go open a great pizza place, but it’s not gonna be. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, in you, right? Not to like he’s brag, but it’s like, I mean, you have to be part of that. You’re the face person. Speaker Katie Collier: Right. Right. I mean, here’s the Speaker Brett Gilliland: name, but you also have to be there. And you’re shaking hands at the front of the house and the back of the Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: If Speaker Brett Gilliland: you don’t have the front of the house good, then Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: It doesn’t Speaker Brett Gilliland: matter how good the pizza Speaker Katie Collier: None of that. No. They can I totally agree with you? And I think you also need to talk about it because then Yeah. You do you do meet people that can help you. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So as a busy, entrepreneur, a mom, all these things, how do you, how do you stay in the game? Like, how do you, you know? Speaker Katie Collier: I’m so healthy. It’s obnoxious. I love it. Yeah. Because I just my father was epileptic. Okay. Okay. My whole life. And then he had brain damage from the epilepsy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Wow. Speaker Katie Collier: And he had a lobotomy. I mean, it was like so sad. Sue’s disabled. And for some reason, the brain and just understanding the brain was so obviously very important to me because I was trying to heal him and also understand it and worried about myself. But I just know how much health the brain it needs. We have we’re like athletes. We have to fire on all cylinders. And so you have to do everything you can to stay, healthy. So I just eat really well. I exercise, and then I meditate. A lot. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love meditation. Speaker Katie Collier: I write, like, with a pen and paper because you cannot just type on the computer. It doesn’t do the same thing. You have to have to in paper. Yeah. I don’t know what it is. Have you heard about that? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, yeah. I mean, look behind you in in this journal. I mean, I I have journaled since July of two thousand Speaker Katie Collier: and five. Everywhere. Yeah. I mean, my child is gonna be left with some crazy stuff. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yes. And that’s why I’m like, I hope we one day they’ll read all this stuff. It’s from, you know, you’ll see the whole reason, vision even existing, you Speaker Katie Collier: know, like Speaker Brett Gilliland: all this stuff and and I think that’s powerful. Speaker Katie Collier: And then a lot of gratitude. So I write, I’m just big into that. So just writing gratitude. Let’s cause life is so tough. So you gotta kinda get your head together every day. Amen. So what Speaker Brett Gilliland: kind of exercising are you doing? Speaker Katie Collier: I’ve, like, I’ve got a trainer. So I guess it’s, like, resistance training. I wouldn’t call it weight lifting, but I would just call it. Yeah. Yeah. Resistance training, and then I hike a ton. K. And then I do some yoga. Got it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. What What’s your mission today? Like, when when somebody would ask you that question, what do you what do you think you’re here on Earth for? Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, gosh. Well, I do love I think what I love right now so much is creating opportunities for people to, like, realize potential. So I love that part about the business. I think scaling is gonna be really fun because it’s gonna allow more of that to happen. And then, yeah, I think showing people, definitely the addiction stuff. I think, showing people that there’s a way out. There’s a, you know, a new life and all of that inspiring people in that way is very important to me as well or whatever struggle you’re going through. Speaker Brett Gilliland: How long have you been sober? Speaker Katie Collier: Twelve years. I’ll thirteen. No. Yeah. 12:12 years. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. And still a battle? Speaker Katie Collier: No. No? It’s not. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s awesome. Yeah. Good for you. Speaker Katie Collier: That’s great. I really don’t think about it at all. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: That’s great. I don’t know. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Think time. Do you do you spend much time thinking how important is that to you? Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Every day. Every morning, I get up at, like, 04:30. Yep. Coffee. God. Meditation, clear it out, and then I start writing and thinking. In visualizing, and I do it every day. Speaker Brett Gilliland: How are you how do you meditate? Speaker Katie Collier: I have to I like to do outside I like to be I focus on, like, outside sounds, so birds, insects, and stuff like that. Yep. And then that’s it. So no Speaker Brett Gilliland: app or anything that Speaker Katie Collier: you use? Sometimes I’ll do like music, like meditation music, but no app. I’ve done headspace before. It’s just like I don’t know. I feel like there’s a time limit on it, so then I’m focusing on when is the the bell gonna come off. Yeah. You’re Speaker Brett Gilliland: right. It it, I I started with headspace, you know, probably ten year, you know, twelve years ago, thirteen years ago, something like that. And I needed that because I didn’t know what the hell meditation Speaker Katie Collier: Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: And then it was a guy. I’m like, oh, man, I’m so wimpy. Like, you know, I never I didn’t tell anybody. I’m doing meditation. Speaker Katie Collier: People think it’s like a religious thing. I’m like, no. This is when we’re all supposed to do. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And just to breathe, we’re all shallow breathing. You know? Speaker Katie Collier: Right. Clear off the brain for a little bit. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You do box breathing? Like, you know, four inch. Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. All of that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: All that. Speaker Katie Collier: All the crazy stuff. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like it. I like it. What I Speaker Katie Collier: would say walking too is a really natural way to get into meditation. It’s a really proven way because the rhythm of walking something does something brain. So if you can’t get there yet, just go on a walk. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: In nature too. Yeah. Let’s talk about fear. I asked this question on almost every pot. Cast. And it’s a the fears we put in our mind. Right? Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. We Speaker Brett Gilliland: think we all do, maybe. How many of those fears you’ve put in your mind actually blew up to the magnitude you put your mind to be? Speaker Katie Collier: Well, none so far. I mean, I think that the thing is they don’t actually happen. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s the point of the question. Right? Is everybody sits here and they’re like, they all pause and they’re like, well, none of them. You know? And it’s like, well, but but yeah, how many people are listening to podcasts right now or driving down the road here on the interstate? And they have a fear. Right? It’s in their mind right now. This thing is going to happen. Speaker Katie Collier: One thing I always do, and I think when my father passed, it was such a crazy thing where I had to get really in the present moment. And when I got in the present moment, I realized that every time I’m in the present moment, I’m okay. Like, think about that. You’re all every time you’re you’re you’re okay. There’s never been a time when you weren’t okay. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So how do you do that? Speaker Katie Collier: I just remember that. And so they go, okay. Just get here right now. Are you okay? Yeah. You’ve always been okay? So you’re always gonna be okay. Yeah. You need to go by the Speaker Brett Gilliland: Talk to that person right now that’s in the dumps though. Right? I mean, they’re they’re in a room, and they’re just like, yeah, whatever. They happen to stumble across this podcast, and they’re like, yeah, but you don’t understand my situation. It’s I’m in the dumps. It’s bad. I’m not gonna get Right? Speaker Katie Collier: The only thing that I can do or suggest to get out of it. The only thing that’s ever worked for me or I’ve seen work for everyone I’ve offered it too is just write down one thing you’re grateful for. And when you write down that one thing, it leads to two, and then it leads to three. And you think you can’t even write down one, and it’s there’s something that happens to you when you start to realize that there’s stuff. There’s a light. There’s stuff to be grateful for, and you’re and it kind of proves that you’re okay. Yep. Yeah. That’s, you know, really the only thing that works. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m gonna, shameless plug here in my own journal that I gave you a copy of. Speaker Katie Collier: Fill it Speaker Brett Gilliland: up as I Speaker Katie Collier: told you. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And it is a a gratitude worksheet. And in that gratitude worksheet, I I’m a I’ve loved taking pictures. K. My it probably drives my kids nuts, but I I started doing this a few years ago that every ninety days, I’ll go through and look at all the last ninety day pictures. And I write down right here month one. Exactly. You know, went to Katie’s pasta, pizza and pasta ballpark village with kids. Right? I’ll literally write that down in my journal because I’m looking at the picture because how many times do we take pictures and we never look at them? Speaker Katie Collier: Oh, that’s always a joke that I always say I go here’s another picture I’m never gonna look at. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So every ninety days, though, imagine if you go through those pictures and you write them down, and now I’m in a space every ninety day. I do the gratitude. You’ll see every day. My daily planner. Today, I’m grateful for. And then, but the every ninety days, you can go through that and just like, man, look how great life is. Like, look at all Speaker Katie Collier: this stuff I’ve done. Yeah. Because sometimes you think like, oh, I’m not achieving enough. I’m not doing enough. I’m not successful enough or whatever. And then you go and look. That’s amazing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. So you got three months of that. And then you end with us is what experiences can I schedule for the next ninety days? So now we gotta be purposeful. Speaker Katie Collier: My gosh, love it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: What are the things we can put on our calendar? Because you’re like me, I’m sure that if you get so busy, you know you wanna do that thing. Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: But if Speaker Brett Gilliland: you don’t put it on the calendar, it doesn’t happen. Speaker Katie Collier: Right. So now Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And so now I gotta put it on my calendar. So the next ninety days, what are the experiences I wanna create — Yeah. — in Gilliland Speaker Katie Collier: how often do you do those things? Cause you wrote them down. You probably do a lot of them. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Almost every one of them, Speaker Katie Collier: actually. Yeah. That’s so cool. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Experiences you know, either I’m gonna go with buddies on a golf trip or it’s something to do with my kids or something, you know, whatever it is, they’re there. And they and to your point, they happen because they’re written down. And they go on the calendar. Speaker Katie Collier: And then your energy starts to move it in that direction. Yeah. And I Speaker Brett Gilliland: think the time we take to do those experiences allows us to be even better at work because we’re recharging. Speaker Katie Collier: Well, that’s a pro I like that’s really cool. I’m gonna I’m gonna try it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Yeah. I love it. I love it. When you hear the words, future greater than your past, that is our mission statement. That is the journal. That is everything that we do here at visionary is helping people achieve a future greater than your past. What do you say about that? Speaker Katie Collier: Believe it right now. Yeah. You gotta believe it. Like, it’s you gotta whatever you want in the future, believe it’s happening now. And then, yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. Speaker Katie Collier: Kind of just set the stage. We’re already in it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Anything that you would wanna publicly share that is, that’s out there for you, that dream, that thing. Right? Yeah. Because I believe in that too, and I think you do as well. These things that wanna go do when you say them, they’re now they’re out there in the universe. Speaker Katie Collier: Right. Well, we’ve got I told you we’re gonna have our frozen pizzas everywhere. And then I really wanna start to bring Katie’s pizza and pasta to other markets. So, looking at Nashville, Kansas City, Gilliland Denver. Wow. Yep. Those are kinda my top four right now. So I really, really wanna do that. And then, I really would love to either write a book or do something around my story. And whether it’s speaking or like I said, because I wanna inspire people who have addiction or struggles or whatever that — Yep. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Katie Collier: you don’t need a college Speaker Brett Gilliland: degree. What Gilliland so your passion today around that is is what? Just purely helping individuals become better? Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. I think so. I don’t think you can make a lot of money off a book, so it’s not money. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: They sell a lot of books. You Speaker Katie Collier: make a lot of money. Right. Yeah. You’re doing Harry Potter. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s true. Which we just went to Harry Potterland down in Disney World. Speaker Katie Collier: Or I Speaker Brett Gilliland: guess it was in Universal. Speaker Katie Collier: Also, I think Carl Young said, like, the best thing you can do for your psyche is to write down your story. And then your life starts to kind of become even better. You understand yourself a little bit better. So I Speaker Brett Gilliland: think the legacy too. I mean, think again, the stuff that you’ve gone through — Mhmm. — and and where you’re at today You mean, people are out there that don’t believe in Katie’s dream. Right? I mean, that they’re Katie. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: If somebody would have told you at eighteen years old, this is what you’re gonna look like at XAs. Speaker Katie Collier: Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Do you believe that? It’s hard. Speaker Katie Collier: It’s hard. Very hard. Yeah. No books are magical Gilliland they can really help. Yeah. People kinda see themselves. It’s really you become a mirror. Just becoming a mirror for somebody else. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: What, what would you tell yourself if you could go back to that twenty, twenty five year old, Katie. What advice would you give her today? Speaker Katie Collier: Oh my gosh. I don’t know what I would change. I would just say hang in there and it’s gonna be okay. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s the exact advice I give myself. Like, it’s gonna be okay. Speaker Katie Collier: It’s gonna be okay. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s gonna be alright. You’re gonna make it. It’s gonna be okay. Speaker Katie Collier: We always happen and we always will be. That’s how I feel. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right. What, where do our listeners find more of Katie Collier? Speaker Katie Collier: Well, I’m really big on Instagram. I love to post a lot of stuff about, you know, all the stuff I’m talking about in my life. My daughter, my business. So I’m very transparent and vulnerable on that platform. So, follow me there at Katie’s Pizza in Boston. Yep. And then, you can go to we’ve got three locations in Saint Louis or we’re in grocery across the country, and we also do e commerce shipping anywhere in the Speaker Brett Gilliland: US. Right. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Katie’s pizza dot com. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Katie’s pizza dot com. So you you should, said transparent and vulnerable. Yes. Don’t you believe that you have to be that way if I mean, to buy into the brand. Right? Speaker Katie Collier: Right. Yeah. No. My father was. He was like, he would just tell you every detail stranger, the whole Speaker Brett Gilliland: If you’re listening, I’m telling you. Speaker Katie Collier: And, so I was just raised. What I saw was, like, it would maybe offend one or two people, but the majority of the people would just be so like, in love with the fact that there was a person whose, like, walls were down and then they would open up. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: And he had so many friends and so many people that just were attracted to him because of that. So I saw that and I was like, oh, that’s how you really can connect with people is through that vulnerability transparency, which is really just honesty. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So I’m on your, which which Instagram should I go to? Speaker Katie Collier: It doesn’t matter. We can go to that one. Alright. Speaker Brett Gilliland: We’re playing our Instagram game. So picking that oh, look at that watermelon drink. There it is. So let’s pick a number between one and ten. Speaker Katie Collier: Nine. Always nine. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Why is that? Speaker Katie Collier: It’s like the magical number. I don’t know. Tesla said it was. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, I like that. And then, between one and three, Speaker Katie Collier: Three. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Number three. I do this game because we’re gonna this it’s called Lobster Thermidor. Look it up. The kids don’t know, but we know. Soft note being at ballpark Village. So it’s a video of the guy doing something here with the laughter, I assume. Speaker Katie Collier: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So talk us, about that post. Speaker Katie Collier: Well, ballpark village is really cool because we’ve always had these tiny restaurants and this has a big beautiful kitchen where we can do all kinds of crazy stuff that we can’t. The other places. So that is a beautiful lobster dish. It’s a main lobster split in half Speaker Brett Gilliland: and that. Yeah. Speaker Katie Collier: It’s beautiful. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You got one item to order. What are you ordering? Speaker Katie Collier: I eat oh, I love steak. So we have a a Bisteca florentine, which is a rib eye, and got fennel pollen and roasted garlic and balsamic and it’s really good. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I’m going tonight. Another date, two nights, I can just talk about this. My wife and I wanna date last night, going on a date tonight too. I think we’re gonna go we’re gonna go to the restaurant tonight on the way up to our show. Speaker Katie Collier: And get a steak a lobster. Alright. Speaker Brett Gilliland: We’re in. Speaker Katie Collier: We’ll do it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Katie, it’s awesome having you. Thank you for sharing your story with us.

On this episode of Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews former NBA player Larry Hughes. Hughes shares his journey of hard work and perseverance, his relationship with his godson Jason Tatum, and the lessons he learned from LeBron James. He also discusses the importance of attitude and gratitude, as well as his passion for basketball and his academy for young people. Tune in to learn more about Hughes’ insights on success and leadership. Youtube   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success, and thank you for joining me. You know, it’s been said that success comes to those who wait, but believe the opposite. I believe that it’s earned with the right attitude, a great belief system, an action every single day. When you mix that in with faith, courage, Gilliland, and most importantly a vision, that’s when greatness happens. Now let’s dive right in to this week’s guest. Speaker Larry Hughes: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. And today, Speaker Brett Gilliland: I mean, I’m fired up because Speaker Larry Hughes: I love basketball. I’m excited to be here with Mr. Larry Hughes. How you doing? Speaker 3: I’m good. Thanks for having me. Speaker Larry Hughes: Thanks for being here. We got our friend, our friend Ryan Luxafell over here. Speaker 3: Do Speaker Larry Hughes: we even talk about the quote that we just heard my friend, Mike, who you just met? Speaker 3: You know what? I hear it all the time. That’s his, that’s his go to. Speaker Larry Hughes: So Ryan likes to say he’s, he outscored you college, but the the context is there. How many years did it take Ryan to do that? Right? Speaker 3: Yeah. It took him, what, four or five. No. T took him four. It took me one. That’s right. But yeah. No. Those are good times. Definitely good times in my life. Well, we’ll Speaker Larry Hughes: talk more about that stuff. But for those people that may not know who Larry Hughes is, why don’t you give us a little background about yourself, where you grew up, what made you the man you are today? Speaker 3: Larry Hughes, thirty nine years old, from Saint Louis, Missouri, Downtown, Saint Louis. Born and raised, a bleed Saint Louis, bleed three one four. And that’s really what’s made me the person am today. My community, my surroundings, my environment, being raised by my mother who was a single parent, just still, you know, just values of working hard, you know, pushing through, never give up. You know, and that’s carried me, through my life and just, to, keep pushing. You always have adversity, and St. Louis is built around, you know, adversity and fighting through the struggle. So Really, that’s that’s what shaped me, you know, and that’s that’s what I carry with me, through the many places I’ve played in the NBA, the many places that I’ve traveled. You know, there’s no problems. There’s only solutions. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Yeah. Especially if you can be the, be the solution, right, come with the solution instead of having a problem and complain about it. We always talk about that here at work. Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s huge. I mean, you know, I obviously run run a run a business and, and, you know, have employees that work for me as well. And, you know, there’s always things that come up you know, there’s always things you have to deal with on a daily basis, but, you know, I’m I’m being gonna come to me with the solution to the problem that you thought you had as opposed to giving me a problem that you know — So Speaker Larry Hughes: you gotta fix. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker 3: that I have to fix. Exactly. Exactly right. Speaker Larry Hughes: So we gotta talk about it. You were on the, the Gilliland Wingo show yesterday. Now you gotta, you know, come hang out with this guy. Yeah. Which is kinda funny for me. Yeah. But, or cool for me. But, anyway, godfather Jason Tatum. Play with LeBron. Mhmm. We’re just talking about the game. What are your thoughts on what Jason’s doing for the Boston Celtics right now and being from Saint Louis? Speaker 3: Well, I’m I’m more I’m excited for him. I’m following them keeping up with them on my phone, you know, in television, you know, we’ve gone to a few games. But me and Jason’s dad are are closed Justin. We grew up together that’s like my brother. So, yes, that’s my godson, and that’s, you know, that’s the title. But he’s really like my nephew because me and Justin are, are our brothers. We, like I said, we’ve grown together. I call his mom, you know, my mom, his little, his little sister is my sister. So it’s a, it’s a family Gilliland, I’m just happy to see him successful. You dropped into a great situation being in Boston, with the great coach, great history, from an organizational standpoint. So I’m I’m happy. I’m glad that’s where he he ended up at. Speaker Larry Hughes: It’s phenomenal to see. And so I think what do you think? So right now, when you think about when you played or the mindset verbatim, I mean, some people get on that show and it’s the big light, right? And they don’t they don’t do what he’s doing. Yeah. Speaker 3: So what Speaker Larry Hughes: do you think he’s doing mentally that’s different than what a lot of other people maybe didn’t rise on the occasion with? Speaker 3: I think he’s been been prepped, you know, for the situation. I think he’s, you know, had a goal in mind from a young kid. I think, everyone around him, you know, supported his goals. To to help him get to to where he wanted to be. And I think he’s been prepped for it, playing a lot of basketball, doing a lot of skill development work, a lot of communication, going to a good high school, all that stuff plays into, you know, what he’s doing now. I mean, it’s his foundation, and that’s what’s he’s able to show, you know, once the lights come on? Speaker Larry Hughes: Yep. Yeah. So let’s talk about also then about LeBron James. You play with LeBron. Saw you were the second leading scorer behind LeBron James, the year you guys went to the NBA finals. And so, what’d you learn from LeBron or maybe what did you even teach LeBron? Speaker 3: Because you Speaker Larry Hughes: played with him when he was young mean, what was it like playing with a guy that now is, you know, arguably one of the top two or three greatest players in the ever to play? Speaker 3: Well, like I said, all those things that I learned you know, growing up, you know, as far as adversity, you know, never give up. I always fight through. I always push through. You know, those are the conversations that I was having with Braun. I mean, as as a young kid, you know, coming into the lead, you know, if it was a match up, if it was a tough match up, maybe it’s, say, Carmelo Anthony, A lot of times I had that matchup early on. Yeah. You know, but now you see Braun taking that matchup. It’s because that’s what we talked about. Right. If you that’s what you want. You have to take on that matchup. You have to take on that challenge and you have to push through. So think I had a, you know, a little hand in. You know, it’s kind of this early, thought process as far as to what, you know, he wanted to be in the league. Speaker Larry Hughes: So talk to us about success. What? How do you define success for your life and, and for others? Speaker 3: Success is, it’s a journey. It’s opportunity. And success is being prepared, to sacrifice. And I think you don’t get to to be successful if you don’t, sacrifice. Sacrificing time, that’s sacrificing family, that’s sacrificing excitement. So being successful for me is, just having the opportunity to to help others, at the same time, do right by yourself. Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: So, obviously, you, you know, sports guy, all that kind of stuff, but now being the business and we talked about that just a second ago. But why is the fundamentals? And I know it’s big in the Larry Hughes Basketball Academy, but but the fundamentals and the basics apply that to the business Gilliland for our listeners, the business leaders that are out there listening. Why are fundamentals in doing the basics so important? Speaker 3: I think it’s the foundation. Know, I think it’s it’s building the legs to the table. From a business standpoint, I mean, obviously having the right system in place of, you know, your your numbers and your performance, but, you know, hiring the right people, you know, and having the right people involved with with what your mission is and where you’re pushing to is you know, it’s the biggest factor in business. You know, but that’s how you lay your foundation. That’s how you build your culture of, you know, how you’re gonna operate as a business. And You know, it’s it’s a learning process, and and people have done it for years and years and years, so there’s books and there’s information out there. But until you’re in it, it it looks different you know, all the time. Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: And I think it’s hard too. Don’t I mean, I assume you would agree with this, but, you know, when you have been successful and you’ve done something for a long time to still commit to the basis Right? And so I remember I went to Cardinal Spring training a few years back. And I was just fascinated by the fact that they were, you know, practicing how to bunt and practicing how to the the the pitcher to go cover first base on a bunt and catch the ball, right? Those little things that As you probably see kids today and I know my kids and Ryan’s kids, it’s like for them to focus on those simple tasks, kids don’t want to do it. Speaker 3: Now, and and and we’re results driven. So they see that, and they think that that just kind of happened. Right? They just see that. Yeah. They’re maybe that they’re older. So they they just gain that sort of knowledge. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Speaker 3: You know, from the little kids. But, you know, if they continue to build in that way in that in, in that format, then they’ll have those skills to do the extra stuff. Yeah. Right? But the extra stuff only comes when you have the basics, like if Steph Curry couldn’t shoot a free throw, he couldn’t shoot at three point from half court. I mean, so he’s building that foundation and now be the person that you see. In in basketball, a lot of kids wanna follow because he shoots the ball from — Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker 3: from, you know, anyone Anywhere he wants. Right. Yep. Speaker Larry Hughes: It makes it. So, talk about that leadership. So on and off the court, and especially now using that business mindset, What does it take to be a great leader? Speaker 3: Man, that’s for me, it’s being a listener, being a listener, and in in giving or, allowing ownership of of what you’re doing. Right? Even if they’re an employee, if they’re an hourly employee, you know, letting them have ownership in what they’re doing, what they’re working with. I found that’s been good, you know, from from a leadership standpoint because you get to buy in. You know, and that’s, you know, being a leader. I mean, if you can get the buy in, and you’re headed in the right direction. Yep. Speaker Larry Hughes: And how do you do that? So I noticed you had your mission statement and all that kind of stuff. Is that that’s something that you you do because of your Gilliland you you take some time away from the business and work on that, or how does that come to your to your business world? Speaker 3: Well, I actually, It’s good to know people. Yep. So I’ve been connected. Had the opportunity to talk to some good business people, who build businesses. That’s what they do. Yep. You know, and not to be the smartest person in the room, I find that to be, you know, taking back steps. So I always want to surround myself with good people. And learn from them. So a lot of the information I’m giving you today or that I talk about is things that I’ve learned that I’ve heard that I’m able to apply to the things that I do in in everyday life. So so listening on both ends, you’re listening to your, your employees or your staff, but also listen to the people that done it before you that have made those mistakes and can make you a better, Speaker Larry Hughes: leader. Something I saw when I was researching this and I say it all the time and people around me probably get tired of hearing me saying it, but I say we gotta slow down to speed up. Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: Right? And I heard you say in the I think it was yesterday, actually, on the the Golock show, and and you said you gotta slow down to speed up in the NBA because they were talking about how lebron’s average speed was the slowest in the NBA or something like that and how irrelevant that is. But talk to us about slowing down the speed up and why that’s so important Speaker 3: or in a basketball sense, I think that that’s how we develop the kids. They’re in the game, so they just start. A million things going on at one time. You got, you know, nine other kids asking for the basketball. You got five other people trying to snatch the basketball from you on defense. So there’s a lot of things going on. So their game is just fast. I mean, they’re running, you know, full speed. It’s a rat race. Right? In the NBA, you talk about, you slow down to get organized, then you go ahead and execute what you’ve been working on. That’s the difference between youth basketball and and obviously the professional level. But from a business standpoint, it’s just the the basic blocking, tackling, it’s to, you know, is your website accurate, right? If someone clicks onto your site, can they get to what they wanna get to, right? If they wanna sign up, they just have to click you know, one time or two times or three times, right? They click three times. They’re probably not gonna sign up. So these are the kind of things that we’ve learned from just from a basic, like blocking and tackling to make sure that what you’re offering, people can actually get to it. Speaker Larry Hughes: That’s good. That’s good advice too, because in the speed of the world, right, we live in. We wanna We want it right now. Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. And I had a click three times. I’m not Speaker 3: doing it. You’re not doing it. Speaker Larry Hughes: Which is crazy. But, what would you tell the Larry Hughes of ten or fifteen years ago. Go back into your life, and what would you tell that guy? Speaker 3: Man, continue to listen, you know, continue to, keep your ears open. Your mouth closed, you know, you know, for the majority of the time, and be patient, continue to be patient And you’re gonna make mistakes, but I think that that’s adversity and that that builds your character. You know, as soon as you make those mistakes, the faster you can, planted information, be better than you were the first time, and stay positive, you know, because things happen in this world and in this space that you can’t control, and, you just have to adjust to it, you have to deal with it, and you gotta push through. So those are that’s what I would tell my Speaker Larry Hughes: Absolutely to adapt, right? Speaker 3: They did that for sure. Speaker Larry Hughes: And so when you think when you look back at Larry Hughes ten or fifteen years ago, you were playing, was there the Larry that maybe didn’t listen? Speaker 3: Of course. Of course. I mean, I remember first coming into the league, being under Larry Brown as, you know, eighteen year old kid that, you know, been playing basketball at a high level for, you know, a number of years, and you have to take it back a step so you can listen understand what the transition is from the NBA, excuse me, from college to the NBA. Yeah. So, yeah, I would definitely, you know, listen a little bit more, I’ve I’ve always been a listener, but how the other person received me listening, I would say that that’s one thing that I could change. Speaker Larry Hughes: That’s a big deal to listen, and I appreciate you keep talking about that because it is important. The more we talk, right? Speaker 3: The more we Oh, yeah. For sure. Speaker Larry Hughes: Probably get ourselves in more trouble we do anything. So what was it like? So you you go to slough. You guys had, you know, a great, your freshman year had a great season. Then you go to the NBA, or is it because, you know, you were this unbelievably good high school basketball player, great college basketball player, and now you go to the MBA right, where everybody’s good. Speaker 3: Yep. I Speaker Larry Hughes: mean, what was that transition like for you? Speaker 3: I enjoyed it, you know, because I enjoyed to compete. You know, I enjoyed, you know, before the league, I mean, I was actually traveling around and playing against high level competition. So I knew that I could, you know, play at a high level. When you get into a locker room with grown men and, you know, they they have different issues and different problems, and then you have it at eighteen. It’s it’s different. And then, and then the workload is is different. But for me, it was about to work. Like, if you said, you know, 06:00AM, 04:00AM, you had to get roll work in and then we have to go and practice. I’ll do it just because that’s the you know, the competition. That’s the workload. That’s what goes along with it. So there wasn’t a huge, huge transition other than the workload and obviously playing against you know, grown men. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Well, another professional athlete told me this one time, and they said that it the the hardest thing wasn’t getting in this a baseball player wasn’t getting to the big leagues, but it was staying in the big leagues. I mean, was that something you constantly focused on in the off season and did that drive you at all? Speaker 3: You know what? I didn’t think about that until probably 10:11, twelve years in. Like, you know, you think about the draft, right? They have a draft and thirty, forty kids get picked up. So that means thirty, somebody Speaker Larry Hughes: wants your job. Speaker 3: Yeah. Somebody has to go. Like, the number’s like, so somebody has to go. But I didn’t realize that, you know, from year one to seven or eight. I mean, like, it didn’t. I felt I was good enough that it just didn’t matter. Yeah. Right? But I didn’t, you know, until, you know, year ten, and I’m like, you know what? I gotta do extra work, not get in shape as fast as I, I, I, I usually do. Then you know what the draft’s coming around. Maybe somebody coming to take this spot. So, yeah, after year ten, I mean, that that came into play. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yep. Yep. So let’s talk about the circuits of success and, we talked very briefly about this earlier, but when you hear the word attitude, what comes to mind? Speaker 3: For me, it’s it’s your reflection. It’s, attitude has a lot to do with, with with gratitude. We kind of put those things together within our program’s attitude and gratitude is because, you know, if you’re able to show gratitude, then then your attitude is is it should be a positive one. Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: It’s hard to be, thankful and mad all at the same Speaker 3: time. Exactly. Speaker Larry Hughes: Exactly. So beliefs, what were your belief systems growing up playing? Today in the business world, what are those beliefs, those fundamentals that you know Larry Hughes has to do every single day to be successful? Speaker 3: I have a positive outlook. You know, when I wake up in the morning, I have a positive outlook. Speaker Larry Hughes: So how may I interrupt you, sorry, real quick? So how do you do that? So, because not every day you wake up and it’s like, oh, it’s, you know, like today, seventy two and sunny, So how do you, how do you get yourself in that positive mindset? Speaker 3: I think it’s, it’s over time for me, knowing that you’re not gonna win every day. So the the the your best chance to be successful in that day is to have a positive start to that day to think positive. And I have a huge to do list. So things that I don’t get to, I just roll it over to the next day. Yeah. So I’m continuously rolling. So when I wake up the next day, it’s like What do I have to attack today? Speaker Larry Hughes: Right. Speaker 3: Alright. What what sort of success will I find today? Because if I don’t find success in the first thing, I just move on to the second or to the third or to the fourth. Because I’ve created that mindset of these are the things that I wanna get done today. And if I don’t get them done today, then I’ll just roll them into the next day There’s no failure that I didn’t get to it that first day because I roll it into to the next day. Speaker Larry Hughes: Never give up on it. And so are you a visualization person? I mean, you know, a lot of people you’ll hear wake up in the morning and they visualize the day or they visualize their visions and the things they wanna do and who they wanna become. Is that, is that to you. Speaker 3: I I think that could be a would be a combination of of vision and planning. I’m a I’m a huge planner, use two different, you know, calendars, for my day, business and family. So I would definitely say that yes, that’s, you know, I envision being successful every day. Got it. I I envisioned being successful. I envision anything that I left off, you know, from a phone call or from an email to wake up in that email that said, yes, it’s approved, yes, it’s success, or yes, it’s a go. Yep. Like, I, I, you know, I look forward to that. Speaker Larry Hughes: Right. And wouldn’t you agree that it is a choice? I mean, because you could, you could wake up every day, right, and have a bad attitude. Speaker 3: Yeah. For sure. For sure. I I would definitely, a hundred percent, that that it’s a choice. Yep. Circumstances are what they are. But your mindset is, is, you know, something that, you know, most of us control. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yep. Absolutely. So what are the actions? I mean, what did you do again playing now in the business world, what are those actions? If you know, if you do these, you know, this one or two or three things every day, you’ll be successful. Speaker 3: I would have to say listen for me. Listen for me because I think in business, there’s a there’s always, you know, things on a table that are spinning that are, you know, just ready to tip-off the table. Yep. So me listening and understanding what those issues are and then applying energy, to certain situations. So it always comes back to to listening, and and and being prepared to to listen because you know, there’s a lot of hidden gems within conversations. Right. And if you don’t listen, then, you know, you can’t pick them up. Speaker Larry Hughes: So when I say the words, talent versus hard work, what comes to mind? Speaker 3: I think talent is is given and hard work is is something that you, you develop over time. But I definitely think that you’re you’re given talent. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Just kinda born with it? Yeah. Speaker 3: I think you’re you’re born with talent. Yeah. It’s it’s what you apply to that talent. That’s, you know, hard work and a dedication part that happens over time. Yep. Because you, you know, you won’t be successful just in one day. That’s something that’s gonna happen, you know, over time. So that’s, you know, that that’s really my my mindset. Speaker Larry Hughes: Right. Was the old saying something like, hard work beats talent, if talent doesn’t work. Exactly. Speaker 3: So you Speaker Larry Hughes: can be talented all day long, but if you don’t work at it, Yeah. Speaker 3: Because it’s a gift. Right. It’s a gift, just like it’s something that someone gives you for your birthday. And if it’s, you know, if it’s a video camera and you put it up on your shelf, and you, you never use it. And it you just got a video camera for, for a present, and you never, you never use it. But we’ll look at all those things that that video camera can do if you actually you know, apply what what it is. Speaker Larry Hughes: Good analogy. So let’s talk about fears. Did, were fears ever a big part of your, you know, either growing up or when playing all that stuff. Was it was feared that it drive you? Speaker 3: Yeah, fear drives you drives me. It motivates me. I really only fear loss, really, and that’s not lost in a in a competitive situation. That’s lost like you know, from a family or close friends standpoint. Like, I don’t fear anything else. Like, that’s that’s, you know, business day or basketball day or competition day, a hard work day, you know, no problems at all, you know, just one fear of, you know, the loss. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. And how many of the fears you put in your mind actually came true to the magnitude you put them in your mind to be? Speaker 3: Probably just won me. I lost my brother, you know, when I was, in Cleveland in, six, and that was something that was a fear that was like, it was real. Speaker Larry Hughes: Right. It Speaker 3: was real. And it was one of those tough things to get over. But using basketball helped me, you know, get over that, you know, that fear of what’s next? Speaker Larry Hughes: And he was sick for a while. Right? Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. He was, he was a heart transplant recipient, and, he was, you know, getting ready pretty close to being on the list for a their heart. Wow. Because he had it for, ten plus years. So yeah. Wow. Speaker Larry Hughes: So that was, that was tough. So let’s talk about your habits and your rituals for success. What were those habits that you did every single day? I know you talked about the listening and the positive attitude, but what what was the Was it working out? Was it eating a certain way? Were you superstitious? I mean, what were the things that you did? Speaker 3: Nah. You know what? I have one habit or maybe super stitching is always put my right foot shoe on first. Speaker Larry Hughes: Is that right? Speaker 3: And that’s, you know, I don’t know where it came from. Maybe it was after having a good game or a good experience or something, but I’ve and I actually don’t really know when it start. I just noted myself. Yeah, because one day I put my left foot on him, I was like, oh, it’s not it’s not right. Red you. Take it off. Yeah. And put my right shoe on, and then put my my my left shoe. Speaker Larry Hughes: So for those of you listening, so Larry’s guaranteeing if you put your right shoe on first, you’ll be successful. Speaker 3: You may be successful. However, you you can always try it. You can always try it. Speaker Larry Hughes: So let’s talk about for people that, you you get off track, you get disappointed, right? Because not everything is a success and as much as we like to talk about success. It’s not reality to always be successful. So what did you do and what could you recommend? And even the people you saw that were great, at their sport, what did they do to bounce back quickly from disappointment? Speaker 3: I think preparation preparing yourself. It’s hard work, that’s road work, that’s doing everything before you actually get into that situation. So if you shot poorly, you’re getting up extra shots. You know, those are the things that are consistent. And that’s work. Work is consistent. If if if you’re able to apply the work, you can be consistent and, you know, things will will will using and positive. Speaker Larry Hughes: So in your world, unlike, you know, my world, in the business world, we don’t have the, you know, the everyday media all over us. If we miss a shot, we do this or critique in every one of our moves. Right? So how did you clear the noise and just go perform? Speaker 3: I think that’s your mindset. My mindset, was to be focused on who I am, understand who I am. How I deal with the medias is was a thought process, right? They’re covering a game, they’re covering what your actions are, they’re covering what doing. They’re not necessarily covering who you are, what you’re going through or what you’ve been through because they don’t know a lot of times when you go, you know, o four eight, you know, what’s really going on in your head. Like, they don’t really know that. So they can only talk about what the action is. Yeah. So I never took it personal, and that allowed me just to move on. And I’m a huge listener. I’m not a big talker, so I see those guys out. There’s no there’s no issue. We just move on to the next you know, to to the next deal. Speaker Larry Hughes: Well, you got voted, most, like, most acceptable of the media. Speaker 3: Yeah. I did. I did in in in in Cleveland. Yeah. Because it’s it’s it’s their job. It’s their job. You communicate with them. But again, they don’t know what’s actually going on. They only know, you know, what those actions are. So for me, I never took anything personally. Oh, this guy shouldn’t be paid this amount of money. Well, it’s not up to you to decide. And my family is very happy that we’re in this position. So I wouldn’t take that personal. Yep. You know, so I’m able to not have any, you know, clouded thought process when I’m going out to play. It’s just the basketball game I’m going to play. Speaker Larry Hughes: It’s probably better to keep those guys on the good side anyway. Right? Speaker 3: Always. They have last word. Right. Exactly. They have the last word. It’s gonna be in print. They have the last word. And, you know, they’re trying to, to feed their families as well. Speaker Larry Hughes: So let’s talk about the Larry Hughes Basketball Academy Now, you obviously don’t have to do this stuff. So, I would assume that means it’s a passion and something you wanna help the community with. So so why is Larry Hughes, doing this basketball thing? Speaker 3: I wanted to be in the the basketball space, obviously, basketball’s given me a lot, through the years. But then again, I understand that we’re not all gonna be professional basketball players will be be paid to play a sport. So it’s huge that we build young people up, from a character development from a leadership, using basketball as that sport. Mhmm. Speaker Larry Hughes: So Speaker 3: I have, you know, more fun when, you know, the kids come in and, you know, we do a pound, or we do a high five, we look each other in the eye, you know, we say hi, we ask how your day is going, because those are the things that are gonna get them to where they wanna be in life, you know, ultimately. But for me, you know, I use basketball because I know basketball at the back of my hand, you know, It’s like a brain surgeon knows, you go see to have problems with your brain, you go see a brain surgeon. Well, I know basketball just that much. So to come back to Saint Louis and give some of that information out to the young people, whether they have aspirations of being professional basketball player, or they just want to compete and play with their friends in the backyard, everyone has an opportunity to be successful because it’s about who you are on and off the court. It’s not about, you know, basketball again. Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: So there’s obviously a much bigger picture here than just basketball. Right? I know it’s about basketball, but Speaker 3: There is. There is. I mean, I think a tons of parents put their kids in in, you know, programs and organizations that are, athletic, you know, programs that are driven just basically on the sport. And wonder why, you know, our young kids are, you know, not listening at home or not doing the right things in school, because it’s not just about the sport. Right. It’s just not just about to sport, especially as we work with the young kids, from, you know, K through eighth grade is really the sweet spot. Those kids need, you know, as much development, as much conversations, as much mentorship as possible. Speaker Larry Hughes: Right. Speaker 3: So they can be successful. Speaker Larry Hughes: So what’s your philosophy on, in today’s world? You know, Ryan and I talk a lot about this is, you know, we’re bouncing around from whether it’s basketball to baseball soccer to track meet in the list goes on and on. Right? And so, what’s your philosophy on multiple sports and what advice would you have for parents out there? Speaker 3: Well, I think this, in today’s, aged Gilliland families have to pick one sport sooner than ever. I think that that’s just the way it’s gone because of all the sport specific things that go on and just the high level of competition that goes on you know, after youth. But for me and our program, we we encourage multiple sports. You understand, different body movements. You’re around a different group of people. So you’re learning other people. I mean, that’s the most important is that your basketball people are not necessarily your soccer people or your soccer people are not necessarily your football people. So if you’re interacting with all these different groups, not only is we’re we’re talking about learning the different sports and the body movements, but you learn about people, you know, and where they come from and and, you know, what their interests are, why are they in involved in soccer and not basketball or involved in basketball and not football. So I think that that’s, you know, the most important piece to us encouraging our young people to go out and experience different sports. They’re experiencing different, you know, ways of life. Yep. Speaker Larry Hughes: That’s a great perspective. So what what are we doing? Let’s not say what’s Ryan doing wrong? What are parents doing wrong in today’s world? What are our parents? How are we screwing up our kids? Speaker 3: I think we’re in the middle. I think we’re in the middle. I, I think, when I go to games, I have the opportunity to, to be a dad understands and not necessarily be a coach on sidelines. So I’m able to see things, you know, from all different angles. And I think our parents, especially from a competition side in basketball, do a very poor job of supporting their kids during the competition because what I find is that they’re more focused on the coach of either team, whether it’s their team or the other team and the referees. They’re not necessarily focused on what their kid is doing or what the team is doing they’re more concerned about what the referee is doing. So I think that that that hurts the kids because they don’t get that encouragement from the stands. And then after the game, the first thing I said is something about that coach or something about that referee, and not that, Hey, I’m proud of you. You had a great game. You know, we didn’t win this one and we didn’t make this one. We’ll get it next time. You know, I think a lot of the conversation in hear and see a lot of the conversations are about the coach Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Larry Hughes: Yep. — or the referees. It’s always somebody else’s fault. Speaker 3: It’s always someone else’s fault. I think that that’s teaching a bad message. Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: So what, what do you wish you had more time right now that you were able to do more of? Speaker 3: Right now is golf. Right now is golf. I’ve actually picked up the clubs a few years ago, and then I I hurt my back. So I had to shut it down a little bit. But really golf. I’ve been getting out on the driving range and, and, you know, plan to hit the course, sometime in June. But that for me is is something away from what I’m normally doing and and really what I’m comfortable doing. Yeah. Because it’s something new and it’s something different. So, yeah, I wanna have spends more time, you know, playing golf and being out there. Speaker Larry Hughes: Maybe I can help you with that. So, when you look back and so you think about your academy now and and so you get the parents involved, you get the kids involved. What, you know, if I’m a parent, listen, of this, what what makes your academy different that you’re gonna help my son with? Speaker 3: Or daughter? I think it’s the information. It’s the information and it’s the foundation. It’s a lot of the whys and why these kids are doing what they’re doing on the playing field. It’s why you take that first step. It’s how you take that first step. To why you use, you know, your inside hand on defense, when you’re in the passing lane or versus the other hand. So a lot of that information be come from my years in the NBA being around tons of coaches. Tons of information and bringing that information back. Yeah. So with our program, what you’ll get most importantly is the information. And then how you apply that information, how many hours you work, outside of the academy, because we only get them an hour, you know, at night. So it’s what they’re doing outside of the academy, that’s really gonna turn tell the difference. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. That’s big deal. So what risk when you look back at your life are you happy you took? Speaker 3: I think going to Saint Louis University, I mean, I was pushed to go outside of St. Louis. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was I was pushed to go outside of St. Louis. I mean, and it started, you know, very early in high school. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Do you remember that first call? Like, how, like, what grade were you in Speaker 3: I think I was fifteen. Yeah. I I was fifteen. And it’s a little different, obviously, back then. It was, you know, they had these guys called runners, so they kinda. They can get they can get who they needed to get to. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Speaker 3: But it’s, it started very early. But my family being here from Saint Louis and everything I knew and understood was in Saint Louis. I mean, I think that that was a risk that I was willing to take. Yeah. And and obviously it paid off, but a lot of the other programs, you know, push a number of pros out, you know, of their, their universities. But, you know, we made it happen in Saint Louis. I’m definitely happy that, I took that chance. Speaker Larry Hughes: That’s awesome. And then, I guess final questions when you think about that success you’ve had and you think about, the next generation. What what do you hope? You have Larry Hughes junior. Mhmm. Speaker 3: Right? And do Speaker Larry Hughes: you have other do you have other kiddos? Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Two, daughters that are older. Actually, one in, single University. Oh, okay. And the other one is, will be at TCU next year. Speaker Larry Hughes: Oh, awesome. Yeah. I did see that. Yeah. So on Instagram. So what what do you hope that you’re passing on to them What’s your legacy for them? Speaker 3: Hard work, hard work, I’ll be consistent. Give energy and effort to the things that you’re doing, whether that’s in school work or that’s on a playing field. And just be be encouraged, you know, be be encouraged to be successful, be encouraged to help people, be encouraged to motivate, because a lot of things that happen are not necessarily money driven, you know, they’re not necessarily money driven. So be happy with what you’re doing, be passionate in what you’re doing. And like they said, never a a day of work, feel like work. So it it should always be something that you you enjoy doing. Speaker Larry Hughes: So tell us the greatest player you played with, and the greatest player you played again Speaker 3: I would say width would have to be Michael Jordan. You know, I play with Mike in in in DC. Obviously, he wasn’t you know, the black Jesus of of of Speaker Larry Hughes: of old. Right. Speaker 3: But he’s still He’s pretty darn close. He’s he’s he’s still, the greatest basketball player that that that I’ve seen play it and play with. Speaker Larry Hughes: So if somebody asks you, and we can, we can always edit this out if we have to. But if somebody asks you Kobe, LeBron, Michael, you gotta start a team. Larry Hughes gets first pick in the draft. Who’s he picked? Speaker 3: Oh, that’s an easy one. That’s that takes up, point, point one seconds. That’s that’s Michael Jordan. Can I Speaker Larry Hughes: answer before I stop asking? Speaker 3: That’s that’s that’s Michael Jordan. Alright. Speaker Larry Hughes: And why is it? Speaker 3: His his mentality, his, his never give, mentality how hard he worked as understanding of the game. Yep. His and I think really just everything that goes along with mentality, you know, and being successful. Yep. It’s it’s it’s what, you know, what draws me to, to, to, to Mike. Speaker Larry Hughes: I had the privilege of, watching him play, I guess, four I get to go see him play as a bulls player. Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaker Larry Hughes: Many him at a golf tournament one time, and I slip down a hill, and he literally grabs my arm and pulls me back up. He’s You aren’t right, kid? Speaker 3: I’m like, Speaker Larry Hughes: I couldn’t even talk. It was awesome. And he gave me his autograph, so Speaker 3: pretty cool. That’s that’s good. I gotta I have his jersey up in my house. Speaker Larry Hughes: It’s only one of one Speaker 3: of few that I have at the house, and, he’s definitely one of them. Speaker Larry Hughes: So he was the best one you played with. And who was, who was one of the guys to play against? Speaker 3: I would say, you know what, I have, Three. Can I give you three? Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Absolutely. Speaker 3: You got Ellen Iverson, who’s always my matchup because we were good friends and the coaches felt like he wouldn’t go at me as hard as he would go at everybody else. Then there’s, Kobe. Yeah. Who was just an assassin with, you know, you know, the the amount of time he touched the basketball, the amount of times that he was able to shoot the ball and develop a shot, so he was just always tough to guard. And then Tracy McGrady, Tracy Mcgrady, started off a little bit slow. But once he got to Orlando, again, he was always my matchup and, you know, he’s six eight and one of those guys that that’s deadly. So those three guys are the toughest guys that I’ve played in the league. Speaker Larry Hughes: So if you could apply to the the LeBron’s, the Kobe’s, the Tracy McGrady’s, the Larry Hughes’s of the world. What if you could say one thing that you could apply from that that would help our listeners in the business world. What is it? Speaker 3: I think never give up, you know, the attitude is the mindset. Yeah. I think it never give up. Because playing in the NBA, it’s it’s grueling. I mean, it’s it’s hard work to product that you see on the court, you know, on a nightly basis is is the results of a lot of hours of preparation and hard work and dedication to their bodies, to their minds, and just to their craft of of the basketball game. So I think that, you know, in a business space, with that same so that I’ve never given up knowing that you won’t win every day is is very valuable. Because again, it allows you to to move on to the next day. It allows you to to continue to fight, continue to, to, to try to win and be successful. Speaker Larry Hughes: Awesome. So working our listeners find more of more of you. Social media? Speaker 3: Yes. Social media, the real LUs, on on all the platforms. Instagram, Twitter. I think that’s really the only ones that I kind of use. Speaker Larry Hughes: I’m There’s so many of them. Right? Speaker 3: There there’s so many of them. And then the LHVA platform. Our website, we do a great job of getting the information out, and and just being really current and up to date with anything that someone wants to know whether it’s skill development, whether it’s team play, whether it’s character development or leadership, or just, just the opportunities that are involved, with the program. That’s a h b a s t o dot com. You know, that website is is is great. Speaker Larry Hughes: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, Larry, thank you for being here. Speaker 3: Thank you. Speaker Larry Hughes: It’s great. Slide.

On this episode of Circuit of Success, Brett Gilliland interviews Lasse Sorensen, a master chef and entrepreneur. Lasse shares his journey of achieving the American dream, his philosophy of food being love, and his advice for entrepreneurs. He also talks about the importance of strategic thinking and setting goals for the future. Check out his show, Food is Love, on PBS! Circuit of Success Youtube   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the circuit of success podcast. The circuit of success podcast. With your host, Brett. Greg, Brett. Brett Gilliland Visionite Advisors The circuit of success podcast. This title show Welcome to the circuit of success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, I’ve got Lasser Sorensen with me. Lasser, how you doing? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: I’m good. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s good to see you. Yeah. I’ve I was turned on to your story by David Sync, who then told Ryan Barkey, and you know how how it goes. Right? And then I I read this amazing article about your restaurant in Desoto, Illinois. You’ve had it for twenty five years. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Twenty six years. Yeah. So I started my career in California. I moved from Copenhagen in Denmark to California, and I lived in Los Gilliland after ten years out there, I decided I wanted to live in a different place with Lasse people that I was used to from back home. So Southern Illinois actually reminded me somewhat of Denmark’s rolling hills and small farming communities. So it was a good spot, and everybody told me there’s no way you’re gonna make it. People are not gonna appreciate it. All they eat is barbecue and catfish. And, you know, so I I consider that it was a it was a victory that I was there for that many years. Thank you. And, you know, all the people that, you know, were into meat and potatoes, you know, I got him turned from well done to medium rare and So it was it was a long it was it was a long course of training a lot of people in eating what I wanted them to eat. But at the same time, you know, I, you know, I got a lot of friends and out of all these customers are mid over the years. So there’s been a wonderful twenty five years. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So how did Southern Illinois even come up? Like, when you’re in California, you know, people in California don’t know much about Southern Illinois, obviously. So how does that even Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Lasse, so my wife’s parents were in the military and they lived all over the world, but they were originally from Cabondale, Caudeville area. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Got it. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: So when they retired, they retired in Caudeville. Okay. So you know, I was out here to visit Mary James family, Mary James, my wife. And I went on a fishing trip on Crab orchard Lasse, and I love fishing. So I thought it was it was great, and and I I really got enamored with the area, and then we were out one night, and we drove by this old Lasse, and and Mary James brother said, well, this place has been here since nineteen twenty, when it’s a cool Lasse. And he says, you wanna stop, buy for a drink. Yeah. So we went in there, and the owner was in there, and she was the only one that was in there. There was no servers, no nothing. You know, the lights were dim. You can tell that they were in dire straits. And we we got to talk and she got horse, and she wanted to get out of it. So I’m I’m like, okay. So I went back to California, and I said to my wife, what do you think about opening a restaurant in Sterling Illinois? And she said, Are you kidding me? I spent all these years to get out of the Midwest. That’s the last place I wanna live. So Another five years went by, and I worked for corporate America Gilliland, you know, ran thirteen restaurants and had a corner office and a great job. And and And in today, actually, I was thinking, if I would have kept that job, I wouldn’t be retired by now, but neither here nor there, I got bored because I love to do stuff with my hands and I love Cook. So five years went by, and I came out here again, and the restaurant was still for sale. We made him an offer, and They took it and the rest is history. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s amazing. What a cool story. And so you grew up in Denmark, and I read somewhere that your dad was the pastry chef the royal family. Is that Speaker Lasse Sorensen: right? Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. My gosh. So tell us about that. What was what was grown up in Denmark? Denmark like? What’s made you the man you are today? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, I mean, you know, as you get older, I’m fifty seven now. You start thinking back some of the lucky things you have happened to you, you know, as a kid growing up. And the lucky thing I have happened to me is I had the same mom and dad and they were there the entire time when I was young. And they taught me, you know, to be responsible, and I was never you know, I always started with strains and I saw other kids getting stuff and my parents were like, no, you gotta work for it and then we’ll give it to you. Mhmm. And and you know, I realized later on in life that all of those things were just super, super important, you know, and that’s why I could do what I done is because, you know, my childhood was was so good. And then, of course, being in the restaurant family, my siblings in the restaurant family, you know? So as soon as I could walk, you know, I was washing dishes, and then I was helping my dad and in in the kitchen, dipping cakes, and chocolate, and all that stuff. That’s how I got my allowance. And then it you know, after then I had, you know, two or three hours. That was my job. So I could get money to do whatever I wanted to do. So there there was it was a great upbringing. But it was a different time, you know, things were were different, and and my dad, he’s passed away now. He was a great, oddest, meaning that for him being a pastry chef, or as being an artist to express yourself, he would make He made the biggest wedding cake in the world as in the Guinness Booker record, And, you know, and then he made all the waiting cakes for the royal family Gilliland always looking to do new and exciting things in his field. So it was a great it was a great what do you say? It was great for me to see somebody that was that devoted to his craft. But then on the other hand, you know, if you wanted to talk to him about something else, there was nothing to talk about. There He’s not gonna pay Yeah. He he so my mom had to do that other side, but, you know, it was interesting. And I remember when I became an apprentice with him, you know, he would say stuff, and I always thought, man, he’s crazy. I mean, he’s too hot, this is not gonna work. Why does he say that? And when I when I got my first big job in California, and I had fifty people under me in the kitchen, I start saying the same stuff. He said, and I’m like, wow. He was right. And he came over and visit me when I had Tom’s Lasse, and I sat him down one day. And I said, I apologize for not believing what you said, but it just took me twenty years to figure out. Why you said what you said. So it it was That’s great. He was very happy to hear that too. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, I’m sure. It takes us us guys wise up over the years that I’ve had had that conversation with my parents as well. So how do how in the heck do you land a gig with the royal family? Do you know how that happened? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, I mean, so in in in those countries, you see like certain stores that would have the crown over their name And that’s because you’re the best in the country at one specific craft. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. So Speaker Lasse Sorensen: all the different crafts, there is one of them that has that. Wow. Label. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So Yeah. It’s it was him. Yeah. Wow. Good for him. Yeah. And so in nineteen eighty nine is when you moved to America. And then like you said, you came there And so what what have you learned over the years? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And I don’t know if you know you know why I came to America. I don’t. Well, because I was involved in a movie in Denmark called Babette’s Feast, and they won an Academy Award as best foreign picture in nineteen eighty eight. And, it was some very interesting movie, and so the producers of the movie wanted to open a restaurant in Lasse Shenega, in Los Angeles and call it a bet’s feast. And so, we were all geared up to all come over here, and I was over here for anybody else, and then the recession hit Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Okay. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: in eighty nine, and they pulled the plug on it, and everybody went home, and I decided, well, I think I’m gonna checked this place out a little longer, and the rest is history. That’s why I’ve been Speaker Brett Gilliland: here so long. Can we say you’re an Academy Award winner? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: No. She’s like, no. Well, I mean, I had a Speaker Brett Gilliland: hand in it. I lived in a movie. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: I had a hand in it. And and the funny story with that was, you know, it was consider back then the low budget movie. Yeah. And it it I think they made it for like three million dollars. And the first year, they made eighty million You know, when you win an academy award, that’s just a landslide of money. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yes. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: So I was young and then they asked me, how do you wanna get paid? Do you wanna get a percentage of the movie? Or you wanna get paid. And, obviously, I did not make the right choice on that one because we were like, it’s a good movie, but, no, it’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: it’s not It’s not Speaker Lasse Sorensen: going anywhere. So then I did another movie with the producer later on called a girl in the swing where I actually was much more involved in the food than Babbit’s feast, and they asked me the same question if I wanna present it, and I said, yes to that, because I thought, okay, that’s a good decision. And it flopped Speaker Brett Gilliland: So Over two in the movie Speaker Lasse Sorensen: banging, missus. Yeah. And so it but but it’s interesting. But for me, it’s like, that was like the first time that that I was involved in making, you know, motion pictures, and and here I am today with a show So, you know, I kinda understand the whole thing about what you have to do in front of the camera. Yeah. Then when you when you cook, especially, you know, the food has to be done a certain way when it’s for the camera and everything. So it’s I guess all the little things have made me come to this point where I am today. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: So I think that’s a little what I hear there too is awareness. Right? So I I don’t think that’s by happenstance at these little things just happened to get you to where you are today. You know, master chef, I did some I mean, eight day exam, a hundred and thirty hours. In all areas of cooking. Right? To be a master chef, which you are. And and I think that when you put one foot in front of the other, I always say bore consistent is probably what I would assume you’ve done over the years to get you to the level you’re at. Would you agree with that? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah. I I mean, it’s it it never I never thought of of a job like how much money can I make and what’s the hours and all that? I always thought about everything I do in life has been about. What can I learn from it? And, you know, not only cooking, but I’ve done a lot of things other than cooking, which I I can’t explain to you today how I got into that. I, like, fifteen years ago, I started a construction company. And I started building houses, and it came from the fact that I was trying to get people to do work in the restaurant, and they did such a poor job and I’m like, it’s obvious you’re gonna have to do it like this. So, then, I started doing that and I realized I was good at that too, And I kind of ran the construction company like a kitchen. Yeah. I wouldn’t allow them to throw stuff and, you know, they all looked at me like, I was crazy I want everything clean all the time. And before you go home, you clean everything up, where that’s not how they do it. No. So But, you know, you know, I was successful of that, I think, because, you know, I had a different mindset, and I wanted people to get, you know, value and Gilliland I never understood why people would overcharge if you got really good at something, why would you charge an exorbitant amount of money for something because it’s just not right. So that’s kind of how I’ve been thinking, you know, and same thing with food, you know, really when people come to the restaurant, you know, I’m like, you know, I don’t wanna overcharge for anything, but then, on the other hand, you know, it’s all about location, you know. If you’re in Clayton, you can charge a bunch of money, if you’re in Desoto, Illinois, can’t. Right. So you you you gotta be aware of all those little intricate things that you have to make decisions on every single day. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So so when you think about your career, you you don’t just become a master chef and stay there. Right? I think about the business world that I’m in. You’re constantly having to work on your Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Lasse Absolutely. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So how did you stay a student of your craft and and keep going to that next level? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, so when I was when I lived in Copenhagen and I was younger, I was very involved in competitions, and that, you know, I have a competitive side. And so I was at the world championships for pastry chef, and my dad told me that I didn’t train hard enough, so I wouldn’t have a chance, and I one. So that was a wonderful feeling. And then I’ve been on the Colony Olympic team of Denmark a couple of times, and I I saw that the more money the teams have, the better the chances you have of winning. So, that’s kind of how I got out of it because, you know, I realized it was not about your skill level. I mean, if you had a huge sponsor behind you where you can train every day and do all that stuff, so it was unfair. So But then, you know, there is other chefs like me that thought, well, that’s not a good way to do a competition. It’s better if we do like a mystery basket type thing because then everybody’s on the same playing field. So, I I After that whole thing, I I kind of said, well, you know, I need to just hone my skill somewhere else but it was a good experience to learn, you know, to do things faster and better and all that stuff on a competitive level. But it was just, you know, prepping me for other things, I guess. And, you know, the the the greatest thing was, you know, I got to meet some very, very interesting people. I got to meet Paul Bukuz, and I say that today and nobody knows who he is. He was the most famous chef in the world up until recently he passed away. And, you know, he couldn’t pronounce my name, Lasse. He always said, I should open a restaurant called Lasse Fair. Which means let it be. So I always wanted to open a restaurant called Liz Fair, and then when I came to Southern Illinois, my wife told me, If you change the name from Tom’s place to Lasse affair, they’re gonna shoot shotguns through the window. Anarchy over here. So maybe it’s still in the future. But, anyway, he came over here and lo and behold, he came and visited me, so that was a huge honor that and all the friend chefs were very upset that that he didn’t go to just French chefs, but, you know, I had a good rapport with him and and, you know, It doesn’t really mean a lot to a lot of people today, but for me, that was like meeting a culinary God and it was just I mean, just an amazing feeling that somebody actually remembered you had recognized you for your Lasse. So that that was a Speaker Brett Gilliland: So so walk through that if you can. So, like, the peel the onion layer back because the I’m I’m assuming the guy didn’t just call you and say, oh, you’re the greatest in the world. I’m gonna come over and see you in America. Right? So how did that happen? Like, how’s that transpire? And and I’m thinking about the people that are listening to this right now, and they’re maybe they’re in sales or attorney, they’re a financial advisor, whatever they’re doing, but they’re okay. How do I build that deep relationship? How do I get that connection and then grow that relationship? So how did that happen for you? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, I mean, I think, first of all, that you’re devoted to your craft and you you are at a skill level that that only a few will get to buy hot work. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And I think that they recognize that. And then, obviously, you can break it down differently because other people, the Frenchman that didn’t get him to come and visit them. They had another idea why he came to he was it was a champagne brand that that sponsored him. Well, lo and behold the restaurant I was in, we bought more champagne than anybody else. So I’m sure that had something to do with it. And but, you know, I think that He recognized the fact that I went to Boulcoutdoor, which is a competition you have in France, and then he could remember because we had a long conversation when I was down there. One interesting thing when I went to France and saw him, I remember Mittorang was president, and there was, like, three thousand people Everybody was talking, the president walked in, nobody cared, then Paul Bakus walked in, everybody was silent, And then when he said, Bonapatit, everybody sat down in eight. So, that’s kind of like where the respect was back in the day, and you realized you were in the presence of somebody who were big. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Because the president couldn’t get anybody to shut up, but this guy, he was just he had an incredible aura around him that Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Unbelievable. — that So what what’s been your biggest learning? As a lot of business owners listen to this, your biggest takeaways over the years, almost twenty six years as a business owner, because I think there’s difference between being a chef and being a business owner. Right? What have you learned over those years. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, I mean, so the big difference is just like you said, when you’re a business owner and a chef, then you have to make decisions differently as when you work for somebody else. You know, when you work for somebody else, you wanna just show your craft and skill or whatever. But all of a sudden, you’re responsible for employees, taxes, and the well-being of the building you’re in, everything. And it is an enormous task to be a small business owner, an enormous Lasse. And you have to be fluid, constantly fluid because every day something happens. Yeah. Right. And so you you you can’t have a frame of mind that, you know, everything’s gonna be the same all the time. I mean, over the twenty five years, that I’ve been there, things have changed and I just constantly adapt it. Yeah. And, you know, if they raised the taxes, you had to do something to offset cost somewhere else or new regulations, you constantly have to move, and if you’re not interested in doing that, you’re not going to make it. That’s just how it is to be an entrepreneur. Yeah. And I think most entrepreneurs can agree with me that it’s just that I don’t know, some people call it a hustle, but I don’t think it’s really a hustle. It’s just, you have to acquire a skill set where you’re a good You have to be good at not only your craft, but you have to be good at a lot of different Gilliland a lot of chefs fail because they’re not good businessmen. Even though they’re very, very well versed in making food, but that’s not enough. You have to you know, like what I understood when coming to Southern Illinois is that I can’t be serving raw fish on all the plates going out especially not the first ten years, because my customers don’t want that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: So I had to make some adapt adaptions to that, But but, you know, that that that wasn’t really difficult. You know, you just gotta have to find your groove where everything works. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And then even that changes too. People’s opinion on what they should eat has changed dramatically in twenty five years in United States. So, and you have to constantly change everything about your business, so it follows with the trends there is. And, you know, if not, you just get stagnant, and then people Lasse coming — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: because you do the same thing over and over again. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So talk about that. I’m a big believer in your vision. You you have to believe more in your vision than anybody else’s doubt. Right? So when you when you think about I can’t serve fish on my plate for the first ten years, but yet here you are, this master chef, have a grand vision. You have a different thoughts of what people should be eating than we probably normally do. So what role did that play? Where where was the Like, how did you get people to kinda step outside of their comfort zone in Southern Illinois? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, so my vision for the restaurant never happened because I wanted the restaurant to be, you know, the first Michelin Star restaurant. Michelin Star restaurant. I don’t know if people really know that there’s a few restaurants like that, but there is a guide in Europe called the Michelin guide, and they rate the best restaurants and and in Europe, you will drive five or six hours to come to a restaurant just to experience the great cuisine. And I thought, well, you know, I’m two hours from Saint Louis, five hours from Chicago, if if I if I if I try really hard and put my mind and heart to it I can make him come. And I did, you know, I did, but given the economic environment in Illinois, I wasn’t able to, you know, have the finest China and the the best plates and glassware and, you know, an abundance of servers. It it was just not economically viable. Like, that’s where you, that’s where you, you know, that’s what you see in MichelinxStar restaurants. I just never get it there, but I really wanted to, and that was my vision for a long, long time. And then, then, you know, obviously, there comes times in in your tenure in a restaurant where you are in survival mode. Yeah. So sometimes, you know, we we had years where we were in survival mode and then things got better again, but my vision has always been serving the people the best and the freshest ingredients. And then that’s the key to success. And giving them great service, you know, and and I I I didn’t care if you had overalls on or a suit and tie. I will treat everybody the same when they come to my restaurant, and and I thought that Southern Illinois at times, we’re a little bit of a culinary desert, so I wanted to be that little oasis. Yeah. And that was my business Lasse, really. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It makes me think too. I’m I’m thinking about the the vision that may not have happened. Right? Is is is there more in the tank? For you. Right? So if if that was once the vision, does that vision totally change? Or is that and you learn a new vision? Or have you Or is there, like I said, there’s still some something left in the tank that says that that Michelin Star deal. I Speaker Lasse Sorensen: want that. And, you know, like, if somebody came to me and said, hey, we’re a group of millionaires, investors. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And we want we want you to continue, and I could put all the money and effort into doing that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I would love to do that. Yeah. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: I mean, the place has everything it that it takes — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: to make that happen. It just needs an an enormous influx of money. Right. And I would like to do that, but, you know, whether that’s gonna happen or not, I’m not sure. But I still have plenty left in the tank. I just gotta figure out what Speaker Brett Gilliland: you know Kinda gas are we putting in the tank. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Right? I mean, I’m I’m I’m really, you know, like, this has been five days in And I’ve spent I had a company from Denmark. My family was here from Denmark. So I’ve been cooking, and I love to cook. So a friend brought a bread machine. I’ve been baking bread and stuff. I’m I’m still that person that I have to have something to do. You turn it off. Yeah. I I I’m gonna have a hard time turning it off, so I’m hoping that I can use some of that energy for something really positive, and and I love helping other people. Yeah. But the question becomes, can I make a living off of that? That’s what I don’t know. But, you know, like, I’m saying, I I identify as an unemployed right now, I guess. So I’m just gonna have to wait and see. I’ve I’ve gotten six job offers, so my ego is doing great. Right. And but do they all require me to move to big cities? Yeah. And, you know, work in in in in hotels or some big restaurants and stuff. And, you know, I’m I’m I’m a little bit I’m, you know, I’m I’m not really sure what I — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: what I’m gonna do yet. But But Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think that says a lot about you. Right? A lot about your craft and what you’ve done. And and quite frankly, I think as a human being, I thought there’s no way in heck after the last couple weeks you’ve had the number of hours, the the the work that you’ve put in, the emotion you’ve put in. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: When I said, hey, show up July Gilliland let’s do this podcast, and you’re like, yep, I’ll be there. Like, there’s no way in hell this guy’s coming. Right? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: It has been a very, very tumultuous couple of weeks. And my wife’s been trying to talk me out of closing the restaurant or she she was thinking that it’s a failure. And I’m like, what do you mean? It’s it it we’re closing on our terms. And we’ve been there for twenty five years. It just means that, you know, I don’t wanna leave the place where I’m gonna stop doing stuff I don’t wanna do. You know, to accommodate a different generation, casual dining, and all that. And I’m I’m not knocking any of it. I’m just saying that with my skills and my craft, you know, if if I have to step into a new position, it has to be something that excites me. You know, where I can say, Wow, now I maybe be able to do some stuff that I weren’t able to do in Illinois or in Desoto Illinois, and So we just gonna have to wait and see Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: what what happens. Speaker Brett Gilliland: We’ll wait and see. We’ll be watching. Talk about the belief in self. How important is that for being great at your craft, belief in Gilliland then if it’s important, which I believe it is, how how do you improve on that? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: The one thing I think is very important is your mindset. And I’ve always had a positive outlook on stuff. And that I mean, that’s the most important thing. But what do you have to do to have a positive outlook on everything, right? You have to be in good health. You have to, you know, know that, you know, you cannot change other people. I mean, you can only change what’s within an arm’s length. So there are certain things you have to think about as you’re embarking on whatever business adventure you’re in, but the mindset of being positive I think leads to the same mindset that makes you successful, because if you’re not positive, if everything is negative, if you see everything as a strike against you, then, I mean, you’re gonna have a hard time. You know, so when I when I’m dealing with people that that don’t wanna have an education, and they are not interested in betting themself, you know, I’m thinking to myself, well, that’s an opportunity for me, because I wanna do it, and I think I can do it. Of course, I can do it. So, you know, you really have to just be very, very positive. And, you know, really money is really not that important, like as you grow older, you realize that being in good health is is more important and being happy — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: is more important than making a bunch of money. Right. So for me, it’s never been about the money. I just wanted to be able to provide for my Gilliland then, you know, doing some good wine and constantly cook some good food for everybody and make people happy. Everybody’s happy. Yeah. Alright. You know, Speaker Brett Gilliland: it’s funny. So I’ve been in the wealth management business for twenty two years. It’s all I’ve ever done. Right? So I’m around money every day. I talk money every day, and it it’s funny when you say your health and all that is is I compare your health and your wealth together. Right? Because if you have the if you only focus on your health and never focus on any money, Well, your health’s probably gonna go away because you’re super stressed when you’re old and you can’t work and do all those things. Right? And then vice versa, if I only focus on wealth and I don’t focus on my health, Well, guess what? Your wealth’s gonna go down because now you’re spending all this money, you know, because you’re I mean, sorry, you’re spending all your health, so you’re spending your money on your health. Right? And so I think that’s important to know, and and that’s why I do the podcast even though we’re not talking finances here today, it’s help people help people achieve a future greater than their past. We can learn from you. We can take away things from you and take away your thirty plus years of being in this, you know, master chef level. What does it mean to you when you hear the words a future grade in your past? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: I mean, what it means, it means everything in the situation I am in right now. Right? Yeah. You know, that that’s that’s that’s the I’m gonna harvest everything I can of the knowledge I’ve used in the past to create a better future for me now, but I also all the things you just talked about right now is gonna become really important to me because, you know, for the first many years, I didn’t think about retirement. And I thought the restaurant be my retirement. Well, now, I’m sitting on a piece of property when I’m not there. It’s not worth anything. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: So, how am I gonna make up for all of those things, and that’s why, that’s the task for me now is to figure out, well, you know, how I’m gonna get out of this, and then still be able to do what I love to do. So I think if I could do it all over, I would probably had talked to a wealth adviser in the beginning because then I would have had a retirement plan and all that stuff. It was always been the idea. Of course, you know, somebody else is going to come along and buy the restaurant for an exorbitant amount of money, and then I’m going to just retire. Well, I mean, that’s just not what happened. Lasse and and many, many years, you know, I’ve had a lot of people in the finance business every time they had, you know, meetings and stuff in Cabendales, so they all told me the same thing. I mean, like, what are you doing for retirement? All that stuff do you have? Four one k and all like, no. No. No. No. No. The so it is super super important. Yeah. And you know, but on the other hand, I also see people that work themselves to death, and, you know, they they retire and then they were sick for a couple of years. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And then they’re done. That’s right. They’re gone. And I don’t wanna be that person either, so you know, if you’re really smart, you you think about that in early in life, and you You know, I always say to myself, I want to retire at fifty. Well, now I’m fifty seven, and it’s not looking good. But but, you know, and when I say retire, it’s not like I ever wanna retire, I always wanna do stuff, but it’d be nice to, you know, not having that financial stress over you all the Speaker Brett Gilliland: time. Absolutely. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And I think, you know, any restaurateur actually has financial stress just because that’s just part of the job. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Part of the deal. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah. But it’s important to, you know, interact with people that are understand, you know, and and and that’s with all the skills. You always have to be open to new things and realize that you know, you got to listen to people that are good at what they’re doing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And then Lasse for advice, that’s very, very important, and you shouldn’t be you know, you shouldn’t be afraid of asking for advice. You you should be humbled by the fact that somebody are able to give you good advice. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s so key. I wanna just go right past that. I mean, the advice getting advice is huge. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: I mean, I Speaker Brett Gilliland: I remember in still, to this day, I’m going hence I’m trying to learn from you today. Right? I think we have to be humble enough to say, I don’t know the answer to everything. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yep. Speaker Brett Gilliland: But there’s somebody that’s been doing something that you wanna do for thirty and forty years let’s go steal their knowledge. I would say steal shamelessly. Right? Yeah. Take that one idea away from you, apply it to your life, be humble enough to go out and do it. Right? What I wanna try to pace you now is and it’s it’s on your shirt there. Food is love. Yeah. So food is love. This is a passion project for you. Yep. Tell us about that. Five times Emmy nominated. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah. I mean, I I would say I probably spent twenty five percent of my efforts on food is love, and it kinda fell into I I was I was invited out to a show in California, and I was on a big big show out there, and somebody in the Midwest, saw me and thought, well, he would be a great person to portray the food scene in St. Louis. And he called me, and I said, no, I’m not interested. I mean, the last thing I need is anymore work. Right? It sounded like a lot of work, and he was very, very persistent and then we finally came to an agreement, you know, the show that he wanted I didn’t wanna do that, and I he said, well, what’s it gonna take? And I said, well, if I’m doing a show, I want to do a show that you’d be You know, I’m a chef. I don’t watch cooking shows. And I hate to see cooking shows where, you know, a lot of them I made up you know, like, and then you You know, but people want to see aggression in the cuisine, in the kitchen, and people throw them, stuff at each other, and yelling at a child. I mean, it’s so far from reality for me that I’m not interested in anything like that. So my show and, you know, I’m I’m I’m blessed that PBS gave me the opportunity, my show is about breaking down barriers for for, you know, for people that for instance, this is a good example. Korean cuisine was my first restaurant that that I did. And and when people talk about Korean cuisine, they go, oh, that kimchi is terrible. And I was unfamiliar with it too, and and just hearing other people talking about Kimchi, I’m like, yeah, that must be terrible. Right? And so I met a wonderful person, a Korean chef that that iron Saint Louis, and he was the the pilot program, if you will, And the amount of things that I learned from one person following him for three days, I mean, that was really it it opened my eyes and I thought to myself, you know, I’m doing something right here because if I’m a master chef, and I thought I knew everything about cooking. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: I know nothing about cooking. Maybe a little bit. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: But all these different immigrants that comes into this country, and a lot of them are engineers and doctors and stuff, but they can’t work. Like that. Their work ethic is just like mine. They have an incredible work ethic, and their kids are brought up where they have to work in the restaurant after school. And, I mean, it is so in touch with what I think working in a restaurant should be, but when you taste the food of a different country, you know, it just takes you somewhere, it inspires you, it uplifts you, and you want to not only do you want to try Kimchi and you wanna try Korean Korean cuisine, you might even wanna try to go to that country after you see it. So the food is kinda like and that’s why I call it food is love is because once you put something in your mouth and it’s fantastic. In my opinion your heart opens up and you can talk to people that you normally wouldn’t talk to because you start talking about the food And then the conversation can go in another direction, but all of a sudden you have something in common, where today, you know, we are so opposite on everything. So, I was so tired of that whole dynamic of being opposites. I thought to myself, we need something that brings us together. So that’s really the basis for the show is to inspire and uplift communities through food. And I think we’ve done a really, really good job. Like you said, we got five Emmy nominations and I spent as much time on it as I could, but now I have different ideas, and I wanna try some new things on the show. And I think that nothing has changed in the philosophy of the show, but I think by me spending more time on it now, I think some of the things that I want to do, I have time to do now, so that’s I’m going to definitely make time for that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: -Mm Something will be growing. We’ll be sending more of Speaker Lasse Sorensen: that at a high Speaker Brett Gilliland: high level, which is awesome. What what advice so you said you’re fifty seven. What advice would you give the thirty seven year old you? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Talk to a financial adviser. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I promise I didn’t ask you to tell him to say that. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: No. I know. But really, I mean, And, you know, I I I think I could have been, you know, in a much better situation today if I had done that. I mean, I I think when you’re in the height of your career, you don’t think about those things, but I think you really need to lay a good foundation for the future. I think that that’s very important. And then I think also that you need to set yourself some goals on when you stop. And I think that that that, you know, that’s something that I’ve learned after COVID. I I I put a plan in place after COVID where I said to myself, okay, if it gets to this point, then, you know, my tenure is going to stop. And it’s important to recognize the signs be aware of of, okay. Well, now it’s it’s time to go on to the next chapter. And and then you know, I think I also would tell my thirty seven year old self is is not about getting as many cars as you want many boats and RVs and houses, and everything has to be big, big, big, big, big, big, because that has a tremendous impact on on your future too. Yeah. I mean, I’ve wasted, you know, you know, I’m a big Jimmy Buffett fan. He has this song, you know, I made more money that I could buy Miami, but I pissed it all the way. So I I I did some bad things. You know, I bought a bunch of stuff, and and and I realized, you know, you end up paying taxes and insurance and all that stuff, and it just Lasse, you dry, So a lot of those bad decisions I probably shouldn’t have done, but also you gotta remember when you’re in the height of your career, you wanna have fun. So there is also the fun factor in there. So you gotta recognize that, well, you did all that because you had fun doing it, and and every single thing you purchased was a victory or a milestone in your success, and you could do that. But, you know, I would say to my thirty seven year old self Yeah. You know, you probably yeah. It should have popped the brakes a little earlier. But I’ve had such a wonderful time. And, you know, like, America, for me, from being Danish, I mean, I could never have done what I’ve Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: what I’ve done here. So I’ve I’ve lived the American dream. I really have. I mean, I’m And I think that’s why I I can sit here and say that, you know, now I want a smaller house. I I don’t wanna mow ten acres. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And I want something that requires no maintenance. I want to come home, you know, cook a good stew you know, and then sit out on the back porch with a glass of wine and just say, you know, I’m happy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: We’re doing it. Yeah. We’re doing it. Would you would you say thinking is a big part of your deal, you think it a lot? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Thinking? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think as an entrepreneur, you know, you think all the time and I think that that’s how you make it. I mean, that’s my the hardest part physically of being an entrepreneur is that you can’t stop thinking. You’re constantly you know, I I solve all my problems when I’m trying to sleep. Yeah. And, unfortunately, the I I I wish there was a way around that, but it’s cautional. I have the peace around me, and you’re saying, okay, tomorrow, this is happening. How do I prevent that from happening on Lasse those things? So you gotta have a pen and paper next to you, so you don’t forget it the next day, but I’ve come up with some brilliant ideas like in the wee hours. And and, you know, thinking is is what makes you going, and — Yeah. — and and and, you know, you adapt, to whatever they throw at you. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s it’s kind of a weird question. Right? Just say, do you think? I mean, of course, we all think. But I I think where you keep saying the word think a lot. I believe that most people I Speaker Lasse Sorensen: think therefore I am. Speaker Brett Gilliland: They’re think therefore I am, which is a great quote. But I believe that most people don’t slow down enough to think. Right? That it was weird. I gotta do this. I gotta do that. Yeah. I got this email. I got this meeting. I’m a big believer. I’ve been saying it for years, strategic think time. Slow down to speed up. Put an hour and a half on your calendar. I have it on my calendar every week. Hour and a half, I do nothing, but this black journal — Mhmm. — an ink pen and me. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: That’s it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right? And I think. Right? Purpose full time thinking. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: And that Speaker Brett Gilliland: that’s why I asked the question because it is for me, it seemed like you are a thinker. Without knowing you really well, that I I think that you do that. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, I mean, and and I think that it like you say, it’s very important So what what I do is I get up in the morning before my three dogs and my wife, and I read the news, but lately, I I have I’ve thought, you know, that I’m wasting so much time looking at Instagram and Facebook and and Twitter and what other people say about the restaurant and what I do and the show and all that. I’m not thing to do myself. And now I watch this thing on my phone that tells you how much time you spend on your device, and it’s scary. It is so scary because like you said, what if I was productive? And I mean, you really don’t need to look at your phone for hours day. It’s an absolute waste. But most of us do, because it’s becoming the most important tool we have. But it takes away from the thinking process that you used to do, it takes away with from the interacting you do with other people, and then I hate when people come to my restaurant, four people they sit down, and then they’re all on their phones, and they’re not talking to each other. Speaker Brett Gilliland: No phone rule. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah, so but but, you know, there’s a lot of things that you can’t change, and this is one of the things that I know. I told my staff five years ago, that they were not allowed to have any cell phones. And I was losing staff, so then I had to, you know, change the rule where they can have a cell Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Because they had all these reasons why they had to have the cell phone. And so, there was just nothing you can do. You just completely lost control over that. But really, I mean you don’t you you can you know look at your phone and your break, but everybody’s so used to that instant thing they have to have it. And and and I’m to blame myself too, you know, like, you know, everybody is a food critic now on on Instagram and Facebook. So you you gotta Every morning, look well, of all the people that was in a restaurant yesterday Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: are they writing anything nice? Are they writing anything bad? And and you just never know. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. This is a shameless plug, but this is the future greater achieving a future greater than your past journal. I created this. It’s now on Amazon. And for me, Everything you’re saying is exactly why I believe in pen and paper. Right? The journaling, the strategic think time. I use this, focus ninety. This is a ninety day Lasse. So I just started, you know, July, August, September — Mhmm. — these ninety days in here. What are my goals? What are my focus ninety? Because to your point, we can start every morning, and then all of a sudden there’s an hour wasted. Right? You know, what the hell just happened. Right? So focus ninety is for the next ninety days, how can I spend the first ninety minutes of every day focus on these three or four or five things? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It may just be, hey, I wanna do fifty push ups a day. Yeah. Right? Get up and do fifty push ups. It be I need to read ten pages. It may need I need to make a call to my loved one or whoever and just tell them thinking about them, you know, things like that. And so that’s why I think it’s so important for us to think journal, write down, dream, and good things can happen because you’re right. These phones are disastrous and can take advantage of our own time. We just let it happen. So So tell us again, food is love. Working listeners find more of that and find more of you. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Lasse, so food is love has now morphed into we have our own YouTube channel called Foods Love TV, and I’m actually doing an exciting project for the first time outside of PBS. I’m shooting a show outside of PBS. And it was a gentleman that came to the restaurant, and he said, well, why don’t you do an episode about Denmark or Danish food? And I’m like, well, you know, I haven’t raised any money for it and you know, I have never really thought about that, but it’s a really good idea. I would love to do it. And he said, well, I’ll fund it. So that’s a great opportunity because now what we’re going to do is we’re going to try to create an episode where I get to do and say whatever I wanna Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Mhmm. — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: do. So it’s gonna be a little different. Yeah. And, yeah, I’m still I’m still not sure what we’re gonna call it, but so the show on PBS’ food is love, and I’m thinking about first, I wanted to call it Foodish love unhinged because I was unhinged, but I thought, no, that’s little little too Lasse. So now I’m thinking, food is love stories. So that’s I I I kinda like that because, obviously, I’m now I’m I my show has been a love letter to Saint Louis. And now I got to write a love letter about my own country. Yeah. And, you know, the food I had when I grew up, And so I’m going back in August, and I’m shooting a show. And it’s in a collaboration with a producer over there that that I actually knew from forty years ago. We hadn’t seen each other for forty years, and and it just happened. And I’m like, you know, we know each other, and he said, Yeah. We he said, I taught I tried to teach you how to play a electric bass when high school And I’m like, really? And I was a chef apprentice at the same time. And he said, I I I he said after a few weeks, I remember thinking to myself, I should tell this man, steak to the cooking. This music stuff is not for you. And but you know, so here we are. Forty years later, we meet in Copenhagen. We talk about this program, and I’m I’m now interacting with some people in my Lasse, so I’m really looking forward to this. This is gonna be an unusual thing for us to do something outside of what we’ve been doing. So what I want to do is create an atmosphere on Food Love TV, where you can not only see the shows there is on PBS, but you also see some of these handpicked episodes that I’ve decided I’m gonna do and I’m working on a couple of other ones. And now we’re going to try to see if we can go out and find funding for some of these other things, but at least we’ll have this episode to tell people see. This is what the show could look like if we did it in your city or your country or so Speaker Brett Gilliland: – Speaker Lasse Sorensen: That’s great. Yeah. I love it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. And where do we find more of you on social media, website, anything like that? Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Well, food is love dot tv, is our website. And, you know, now when we have time to think about it, I’m gonna put up a donate button because it’s very important to get donations for food is love. So I I hope that people would think of that, and I’m planning a couple of fundraisers Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Lasse Sorensen: Mhmm. — and Tony Piotosso Caffe Napoli. He is a great support of the show. He was on my show. Episode one, season two, and he opened another restaurant called Napoli C. And on August fourteenth, we’re going to have hundred tickets out there. His two hundred and fifty dollars a person, and they he’s gonna create a huge menu, and, you know, the proceeds go to food is love. So That’ll be the first of many, and then we have Lasse, I’m actually planning on doing one in Alton, Illinois, at state street market, which is the people that own that are originally from Cabendale, so we know each other from there, and we are going to do a fundraiser in Alton. But those details are not settled yet. But, you know, just follow me on Facebook, follow foodislove dot tv on Instagram, I have Instagram. I’m Schiff Lasse, and, you know, all of that stuff is gonna come out. We we have some great things planned that we wanna do and and you know, really, it’s so important that we teach the new generation, I think, the importance of of sitting down dining together and and sharing not only food, but wine, and atmosphere course, that’s love, and that’s the most important thing. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right. Need more of it. Speaker Lasse Sorensen: We need more of it. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So last question, this is from our friend Abby over here. Your favorite thing cook. You had if you could only cook one thing, what would Speaker Lasse Sorensen: it be? So in my tenure in Los Angeles, I worked at a Hawaiian restaurant and I have this fish that I’m obsessed with. And and I think as a foreigner, an immigrant coming into United States, and then I always wanted to go to Hawaii. So all the names of the fish in in in Hawaii excites me. So my favorite fish is Upaca Paca. K. And I created this dish with a pocket pocket. It has like stewed leeks and sesame seeds, and it has an aniseed blanc I love licorice, licorice is in aniseed, and so that’s my my favorite thing to cook. But being in the location, I’m in here, I have not been able to cook it very often. So one of my ideas for a show I have if I can find the funding is going to Hawaii because there’s also a lot of stuff in Hawaii that intrigues me, and I’m very familiar with Hawaii and food even though I haven’t been there. So that’s on my bucket list of of shows. And if I can get over there and cook some Opaka paka. That’d be great. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I bet Abby could show up and be there at the same time, and she’ll be it’s you at least have one person at the deal. Right? We’re gonna have a ton of people, but Abby’s gonna be there and have some of that. Well, it’s been awesome having you, Chef, and thanks so much for being with us for your success. It was Speaker Lasse Sorensen: a pleasure. It was a pleasure. Thank you.

On this episode of Circuit of Success, Brett Gilliland interviews Olympic gold medalist Dawn Harper. Dawn talks about her journey to success, from her upbringing in East Saint Louis to her travels around the world. She shares how her family, faith, and coaches Nino Fennoy and Bob Kersee helped her to become the champion she is today. Dawn overcame a career-ending injury in high school and persevered to become a world-class athlete. Hear her inspiring story of hard work and dedication, and how she encourages others to go out and execute their goals without second-guessing themselves. https://youtu.be/ThikYqp8P4M   Brett Gilliland: Uh, welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland, and today I’ve got Don Harper Nelson with me. Don, how you doing? Dawn Harper-Nelson: I’m doing pretty good. This beautiful, beautiful morning. It’s Brett Gilliland: awesome to have you here. What people probably can’t see on the cameras I know is uh, so we got some, what, what we got here Dawn Harper-Nelson: in front. We got the good stuff. We got the good stuff. Um, I brought my Olympic medals with me, my World Championship medals, um, and also my Diamond League trophy. And so, yeah, I always say I love to bring them out. I feel like I did not win them just for me. I literally won them for my country, for everyday people. And so I love to have people touch them and just be like, that’s heavy. This one’s big. And it’s really cool to see all the different questions and responses. Well, that’s what you got from us. Exactly. Brett Gilliland: Guys in the office here, like, man, look at that. That’s so cool. So you are a hundred meter hurdle, a hundred meters hurdle. Uh yes. The gold medal in the 2008 Beijing Olympics. Mm-hmm. The silver medal in 2012. London Olympics. The 2017 World Championships. First American hurdler to win the gold medal and then a medal. And the next Olympics. Yes sir. 2022 U [00:01:00] ucla, A hall of fame. Who, what? Six time. This is what I couldn’t believe. Sixth time. I know it’s high school, but six time. Yeah. I h s a state champ. Yes. And one year you didn’t even get to race cuz you blew out your knee. Yeah. Uh, somebody who was on a Wheaties box told me a story about that. We’re gonna talk about it later. Our friend Jackie. Um. And then also Dana Howard. Mm-hmm. I gotta say, you know what’s up to Dana? Absolutely. She introduced the two of us. Absolutely. And so, uh, happy to be here, but if you can Don, what, what has made you the woman you are today? Cause you don’t just wake up and have all these medals in the air. No. So if you can kind of tell Dawn Harper-Nelson: us that, what’s that story? That’s a good question because I always say typically you see in quote unquote the end product. You see me today? Yeah. There’s so much life and so much that went behind that. Oh man. A huge chunk of that is family for me. I am. I am just family. Like if Dawn slash family, like that’s my name, right? Um, growing up, I mean, an example, even when I won the Olympics, the first thing they says, what’s the first thing you wanna do when you go home? And I said, have [00:02:00] Thanksgiving meal at my Aunt Lassie’s house with my family. Like that is just family for me. I had a pretty good, um, upbringing with my parents. Uh, my parents did get divorced, so that obviously plays a toll on you as a kid. But to be honest, my mother was very strong. And you’re still worth it. You’re still, you still have worth, yeah. Um, but then being grounded in church, my faith is huge for me. Um, through all the ups and downs, always knew that God had a plan, has a plan. Um, And then just kind of understanding that you’re going to go through ups and downs, and that’s okay. Yeah. But as long as you learn from them, you always have your family that backs you, uh, just go out there and give, just, just just give it everything you have. And so it’s just such a loaded, but yeah. Do you, Brett Gilliland: and I mean, even anybody can say that, right? Mm-hmm. Given everything you have, obviously you gotta have some God given talents. Absolutely. We were joking about racing in the parking lot, right? Obviously you’re still kicking my butt, but, uh, but, but what was it about you that. Said, okay. I, I may be just a little bit [00:03:00] different than that girl next to me. Mm-hmm. But would you say it’s more physical or more mental? Um, Dawn Harper-Nelson: the mental is, I think was the bigger part of it, right. Physical. You just gotta have some, some in the tank, right? I mean, it’s just got a little bit of genetics that you know there. But I think when I said, give everything you have for me, what that means is I’m not okay with regrets. I’m not okay with saying, well, I could have, oh, that just boils my blood. And so from a kid, I’ve always been like, no. Um, even though I would go to the state meet and be undefeated, my understanding was always on that day. It could be anybody’s day. Yeah. And so you have to leave it all out there. So if I do get beat, I, they were better on that day. It was not because I gave them anything. And, um, The funny part is with that, like I said, it just plays into my life because, just jumping ahead just a little bit, literally Jackie joined a Curie. When I met her, she was very clear in saying, I do not care what. Anyone has done [00:04:00] every single day up until today, on today, you have to beat me. Mm. And so she told me that and I was like, you are so right. And so, you know, that’s just kind of how I feel like I’ve lived in, um, mentally though I, over time I’m a monster. I have built up to be a monster, especially on the track. I truly believe I can take down any giant that would step on that track beside me. I dunno about you Brett Gilliland: two. I believe that. Don’t you just already what she’s saying. So I, I’ve had the pleasure of being around Jackie numerous times and, and one of her favorite, my favorite quotes, she says, I didn’t train Dawn Harper-Nelson: to be second best. No, I listen because who dies every day. Yeah. Because under Bobby Curie, you die. Every, you question life, you’re like, I’m paying Mike Kirsty, her Husbandly your trainer. Absolutely. Her trainer. My, yes, my coach. You’re like, I’m paying him to kill me. Yeah. That’s literally his job is to go home. Stress, worry. What does Dawn need, physically, mentally, to get her on top of that podium and every day he found a way to make you feel like, I thought I was ready, but I’m not ready. And so, yeah, I totally agree with that. Gotta break it down to build it back up. [00:05:00] No, literally. And by the time you, you’re built up Bobby’s standards. No other coaches done waiting, you know, being prepared you to do. No. That’s amazing. Brett Gilliland: Tell us what you’ve learned. Um, I mean, you traveled the world mm-hmm. When I was doing my research. I mean, it, it seems like you’ve been, like, in every country, ever. It feels like it sometimes. And, uh, so what have you learned about just life mm-hmm. About the world? Uh, by traveling through the world, through Dawn Harper-Nelson: sports? Oh my goodness. There’s so much out there. You think, you know, you think you have a way of understanding how life is, and then you step into someone else’s culture. And you’re like, oh, I thought my life was beautiful or I thought these things. It’s like there’s so many things out there. Yeah. And so just not being stuck in your own bubble, being open to accepting and learning from others, um, experimenting on different foods, right? Yeah. I mean, just, just being someone that wants to just absorb things. Um, I think that I’ve, that’s, that’s kind of big for me, just realizing that beauty is everywhere. Yeah. And it’s not just how you’ve defined it. It is. It looks many different Brett Gilliland: ways. [00:06:00] It’s gotta be different, right? I mean, I grew up in a small town. Mm-hmm. You grew up in a small town. What, I mean, what, what would you say coming from East St. Louis? Mm-hmm. And, and there’s so many phenomenal people in East St. Louis that I think the, the, I was just having this conversation with Dana the other night. It’s like, I don’t think he understands. Mm-hmm. You probably don’t understand either, like, The people you’ve grown up Uhhuh to idolized and walked Uhhuh, like, I didn’t grow up with those people. Right. You start named Dana Howard. Yeah. Brian Cox, Marco o’ Harris, Gonzo, Martin, all these people. Right? You Jackie Joyner, ey. And the list goes on and on and on. And, and so what was it about you about East St. Louis and expectations that also Dawn Harper-Nelson: maybe helps? Mm-hmm. That’s exactly right. Expectations. Um, so. In East St. Louis, we say we’re the city of champions. And from the outside so many people are like, you know, it’s ghetto, it’s all these things. Yeah. But within East St. Louis, the adults that were around me looked at us and said, don’t you dare define yourself that way. Um, coach Nino Feno, who was Jackie Joiners coach, high school coach, and also my high school coach and summer track coach. Uh, [00:07:00] The things that he would tell us we could do, the way that he spoke life into us and demanded that we believed in ourselves. Sometimes, I mean, we talk about, to this day, we like, he is just tripping. Like there’s no way. He just, why? He just always like, better, better, better. And you’re like, that was pretty good for today. And it’s like, no, better, better, better. As young women, you gotta go out to the world and you gotta, and it was just like, we get it. I mean, he was always, he was just kind of relentless with it. And so I think that was very helpful when you did finally face. A situation where it was the complete opposite. You’re like, well, I’ve only heard my whole life of you are, you are, you are. You know, instead of Can you, can you? Yeah. And so that, so they weren’t beating Brett Gilliland: you down, telling you all the things you did wrong, man. It was a total opposite. Opposite, which is I think a big note for parents, right? Yes. Now parents, you’ve got two kids. I’ve got four kids. You, they talk about that drive home from the baseball field or the soccer field or whatever, how important that is, right? I think that’s probably a big thing for us to learn is. The I cans. Dawn Harper-Nelson: Absolutely. And then the speaking into them on the days when you see their shoulders are slumped. Right. I [00:08:00] mean, where you’re like, it was a huge defeat. Like one where you, like at first they were like, we got this. And then, because it won’t always be perfect. Yeah. The times when you’re driving home and it’s silent and they’re like, if, if I just, I don’t wanna talk right now. Yeah. And you’re like, okay, I’ll give you your moment, but we’re going to address the elephant in the room of this failure that you feel. And I think just speaking life into, because it’s going to happen again. And when it does, they can fall back on. Man. And even if it, like, they feel like no one else are like my family. Right? Like that’s, my family believes in me. My family never saw when I felt like I was at my worst. My family never saw that part of me. They only saw the greatest. Yeah. So Brett Gilliland: do you think that, um, the, the struggles you’ve had mm-hmm. Because I, so I texted Jackie and I said, Hey, I’m, I’m talking to Don Marrow. And uh, I said, what do you think? Right? Yeah. And so she said, Uh, I paraphrase here, but that you had an injury in high school. Yes. That would’ve ended most people’s careers. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And so I think that was your sophomore year, right? Yep. So your sophomore year of high school won it your freshman year. Mm-hmm. Sophomore year. Obviously you’re thinking you’re gonna win it. Absolutely. You had this [00:09:00] seasoned career ending. Yep. Injury. What did you learn through that struggle? Dawn Harper-Nelson: How bad I wanted it. I learned that, uh, because like you said, it was, the thing was like, we don’t know if you’ll ever run as fast again or if you’ll ever be as good. And for me, I was. It. I shocked and devastated. It’s just not heavy enough words to kind of understand how I felt. Because I begin, I started to begin that believe that I had what it took to go to the next level. And I’m like, you’re telling me that it’s ending here? Um, did they tell you Brett Gilliland: that, that it was gonna end like you’re Dawn Harper-Nelson: done? Yeah. They’re like, it’s, yeah. They’re like, it literally, it’s like this is something that people really don’t like for your sport. They’re not, they don’t come back from Mm. And. I’m like, well, you’re 16 year old. You literally, yes, 16. And what was um, also hard was. That was the, my freshman year in high school was the year that they first merged, um, Lincoln High School in East St. Louis High School. So it was the first time they had, um, was the freshmans that would be, uh, a chance to go to state. So the first time someone could [00:10:00] win four years in a row. Mm-hmm. So, cuz high school is tens, 11, 12, 3 people have done that. No one’s done four. And so when I won my freshman year, year concert talks about that for Brett Gilliland: basketball. Oh really? He did it in Dawn Harper-Nelson: basketball. Yeah. And that’s, Sweet. And so, you know, but you didn’t because they weren’t combined then. Oh. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, huh? No, me neither. No. And so, uh, literally, so my freshman year I broke the state record, uh, a hundred hurdles, three hurdles, and won them both. And it’s like, oh, I’m on my way sophomore year. I’m like, I’m, I’m undefeated. If, if things go well, you’re right on your way. And, uh, when I got the injury, It was just like, I can run through with it, I can still run through this. Right. But you know, the body’s still the body. Yeah. But you’re still human. Yeah. Like as much as you put in all this hard work and uh, like my physical therapist we went up to, he even went to state with me and my family. Yeah. And I’ll never forget I ran the rounds, but they’re like, her leg is not going to make it through. Yeah. Or more of these rounds. Cause I had four races and they made the decision in the back of [00:11:00] the truck that we had the truck up, the, uh, truck hood up. And I’m sitting in the back and they tell my parents she, she can’t run, she’s done. And I cried my eyes out and I’m like, just let me, let me do the a hundred hurdles. So I begged to run the a hundred hurdles and my parents were like, she’s crazy. And I’m looking at the doc like, you know, I can do it. And uh, they let me, And I remember being in the blocks where I couldn’t bend my knee, and when the gun goes off, I’m like, go, girl, go. The way that I lost that race. My mother and father say, you could have sworn that everything was perfect conditions. And so I cried so hard. It was just like, life is over. And that’s, and, and the thing is, is as an adult you can look back and say like, We, we all know that state meet is not the end of the world. Correct. But the problem is, in that moment though, it feels like exactly in that moment. And that’s why I say when we talk to our kids or we talk to just someone going through something, you can’t look at your life and other things going on. It’s for that person in that moment, literally I felt like worth, everything was out the window. [00:12:00] Everything, nothing else mattered because life was over. And like I said, in that moment, it made me realize, If I do walk, run again, I will never take this for granted because it was just a little hiccup. I will never, if I ever get a chance to go to college and run, oh my God, I will never, you know. Um, and I remember the journey of therapy going back. It was, it was almost like you could put on me some rocky music. I was ready. It was long. It was hard. I. Um, but I had a team together like Coach Fanno and my physical therapist, the way that they work together. And my mother bless her little heart, she’s like, whatever they say, do you know, we’re just gonna do, and I was doing extra workouts on my own in our driveway. Yeah. It was. So I tell a lot of parents, you know how they’re like pushing their kids. Yeah. You’ll know if they want it. Mm. You’ll know if they want. It’s exactly where my mind was going. You wanted it? Yeah. I wanted it [00:13:00] bad. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So failure can go one of two ways. Absolutely. When you get, when you get struck with bad news Yep. Or a bad thing and business happens. Yep. And people can either cave Yeah. And go get home in the fetal position. Mm-hmm. Dawn Harper-Nelson: Or you can rise up. Yep. And I, I always say though, take that moment. It, it’s a devastating blow. You know, sometimes people are like, just brush it off and Well, sometimes it’s that hard where you can give yourself a little second cry, be devastated cuz you wanted that, that part you wanted that dream. It didn’t happen, but it’s not over. My thing is don’t stay there. Yeah. Right. Brett Gilliland: So solid. Yeah. Um. If I followed you around then and now and, uh, I’m always, I always love people. That got to your level of just the daily habits? Mm-hmm. What am I seeing? Let, let’s, let’s talk now. Mm-hmm. Cause now we’re retired, right? Yes. We’re done running. Yes. Yes. But what are the daily habits now? But then also if you could think about what were the daily habits when we’re trying to be at the, the peak. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. When for our country, what Dawn Harper-Nelson: redoing. So something that I just feel like my life will forever flow this way. I’m a planner.[00:14:00] Okay. Like a habit is I, my day it has to flow a certain way. I’m not so much of like something else happened, how do I put that into the 10 o’clock hour? But. If I know that I have these things I’m doing the next day, I’ve already thought of, I’m getting up at this time. I eat at this time, I get dressed by this time. I’m getting the kids ready at this time, like my clothes are still laid out the day before, even at track practice, my training partners will laugh at me and they’re like, you match every day. And I’m like, well, Nike gives us gear that matches for every day, right? Instead of like, why am I putting a pink with a blue bottom? It’s like pink and pink, honey. Right? Um, and so that’s kind of how I am with my girls. I’m a planner for them. I plan my husband, he has something to do. I’m like, oh, babe. You know, he’s just like, oh, I didn’t think about that. I’m like, here’s that. Already thought of, um, you know, what you would need for this time. I am. A, I don’t know. I’m just, I’m a point. But I think that’s the biggest thing, because for me, when it comes to, when it came to trying to be on top of the podium, there are so many things that could fall through the cracks because you’re like, oh, I know tomorrow I have no, no, no. [00:15:00] Yeah, but that’s at three, but you have to be at, you know, by the bus at one 30. Yeah. So what are you doing before one 30? Because before you do that, that’ll throw off at three o’clock. So that’s, that’s huge for me. And then it helps you relax and breathe, though, if your day is planned, you’re not like, okay, by three, I gotta, no, no. Yeah. It’s already Brett Gilliland: now, wouldn’t you say that you’ve also, the visuality, you’ve already thought about Dawn Harper-Nelson: it, right? Yeah. Thought and reading it out like, so I’m a, I’m a little, I’m a writer, uh, kind of as well, and so. Like I said, the bus leaves by one 30. Yeah. Then I’ve written out, I woke up at nine, I ate by nine 15, I da da da. Yeah. That’s just how I flowed. I think I Brett Gilliland: always call it in business world, boringly consistent. Okay. And so, you know, you’d see those journals over here. I got all these journals here. Mm-hmm. I mean, for 15 years I’ve written down my life. Yeah. And I think that’s important for us, whether you’re in the business world or the track world Yes. Or whatever, a parent world. Uh, I think we gotta do that because, um, In our minds when you write it down. Mm-hmm. It’s kind of like that brain tattoo, right? Yes. It’s already happening. I agree. And it gets you there. And I think too, to your point of the, [00:16:00] the, even the clothes matching mm-hmm. I think there’s an emotion out of there that takes some, some work. Mm-hmm. Some brain power. Yes. The next morning to even think about it, boom. Put it on. Put it on. Let’s go run. Dawn Harper-Nelson: Totally. I agree. Don’t have to think. Yeah, totally agree. Totally agree. And then before you know it, you’re like, oh, that one top I thought I was gonna wear is dirty and, and this is, Strictly track related. All of a sudden now you’re five minutes, 10 minutes behind. Well, my race sometimes will go off at nine o’clock at night. I cannot show up at 9 0 1. I do not have the luxury of getting to the call room at eight 30. No, when I was supposed to be there at 8 25. Right. Whether on the track at eight 30 and like you miss your race. Yeah. So for me, that’s why it comes down to things need to be laid out because I do not have, my race is 12 seconds long. Yeah. So my brain also operates that way. I don’t have the luxury of being a second off. So I’m Brett Gilliland: gonna grab this one right here. Absolutely. So the camera can see this. So this is a gold medal? Yes. It’s pretty cool to be holding a gold medal. That’s amazing. Uh, so the Beijing Olympics 2008. Mm-hmm. Walk us through that. 12 seconds. Dawn Harper-Nelson: Oh. Oh wow. Oh, okay. You [00:17:00] went there. Uh, that 12 seconds is chaos. It is, um, Beauty. It’s all the things. So literally, Bobby Kirsi told me in the hurdles we all know, you see it’s carnage can happen. Yeah. Someone’s running. Well hit a hurdle. It just, yeah. So he’s like, I need you to run like a horse with blinders on. I do not care what happens to your left or your right. I need you to have blinders on because in each round, someone beside me had tripped up and failed. So he’s like, in this finals, it’s going to once again be carnage. And um, I remember setting my blocks and I’m like, Dawn, you gotta go, Dawn, you have to go, Dawn, you gotta go. And they were in the blocks and like, run is on your mark. And of course that is like when once I get in these blocks, after 12 seconds, I will know my fate. Hm. Like when can you say in 12 seconds, right? You will know your fate and it’s literally all up to you. You’ve done this A million. I’ve been at UCLA and run on that track and run this 12 seconds over and over and [00:18:00] over again. The only thing that will mess this up is me. That is a very heavy weight. That weight Very heavy. That is very heavy, but oh, do I welcome it because I have trained for this moment. Yeah, moment for years and set. They shoot the gun and you da, it is complete. You, are you, I mean, every muscle is flexed, everything. And I go over the first hurdle, second hurdle, and by third or fourth hurdle I see, um, dere London from Jamaica. She, her foot is slightly in front of mine and I say, now I’m supposed to have blinders on. Yeah, but you still feel competition. Yeah, sure. And I say, well, you’re not winning. You need to move. You need to work. Go to work. So that’s what I tell myself. So how fast that brain’s working go to work. And by F five, six, I’m now moving. Now I don’t know what’s going, I can’t see anymore. I’m like, okay, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. When I come off of 10 lean for your life, I lean and by the time I look up to kind of comprehend where I am again. I don’t like everyone is now on the side of me. Yeah. And so I look over and I see Sally [00:19:00] from Australia. She starts screaming and hollering and jumping. Yeah. And I’m like, I got second. I got second because I knew Okay, it wasn’t eight people in front. I’ve watched the video 10 times. So that’s, yeah. And I’m like, okay. I got second. I got second. And now Priscilla LOEs from uh, Canada is screaming. I got third now. I’m got third. Cuz they’re hugging and jumping. Right. Like I got third. Oh. I’m on the podium. I don’t ca I’m on the podium, don’t see where I’m at. I am on the podium. And then my training partner, well, uh, American partner, uh, Daou Cherry comes over. She’s like, no, Dawn. Cause she could tell my reaction was not a first place right. Reaction. And she’s like, no, Dawn, you won. And then that’s when I collapsed in her arms. Yeah. And it’s just like, what do you mean I can’t con I say, what, what, what? Over and over and over again because it is. It’s, it’s unreal. It’s like, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Because what you’re thinking is, is in this moment, the world, there are so many people in this world that whatever your dream is mm-hmm. You want it so bad you have [00:20:00] cried and prayed like, God, I swear, I swear I’ll never, I swear, oh my God, if I, if I, and he thought this little girl from East St. Louis with all that winning would come with, he thought that I could handle that. He said, all of your, all of your wants and desires in this moment, you can have it. I could not comprehend that I was the best in the world and it was true. All of the sacrifices. All of the everything. It was just like, my God, I thank you, my God. I thank you. That’s why I say I will never take it for granted because, and I’m talking about all hopes and dreams not to be on the podium. There are so many people that wanna be a lawyer. Something happened and they couldn’t. I mean, wanted to be married, something happened and they’re not. Yeah. All dream. My, this dream is they say you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than winning the Olympics. You know, that, that to me that that’s mind blowing. Yeah. Brett Gilliland: So now they come, they bring this Yes. And they, uh, you’re [00:21:00] standing on the top of the podium. Mm-hmm. They put this bad boy across your neck and they play our national anthem. Dawn Harper-Nelson: Yep. Tell us about that. Uh, that I will never forget me saying all of my sacrifices not eating Hagen da strawberry ice cream. Oh my goodness. I love that. Ice cream all the times that I didn’t go out or do this and that, and I’m like, it was all worth it. Yeah, because so many times you’re like, oh, was it like, didn’t pan out? It’s like you still learned the lesson, but it was a tough lesson. Yeah. No one wants to learn that lesson. Right. Um, But no, I didn’t have to learn a lesson. I was like, the lesson is, is that yes, sacrifices, absolutely. They do pay off. Um, and I’m thinking they’re playing. The flag is being, I was praying for this moment. The flag is being raised. My country is being honored cuz of my effort. This girl from East St. Louis, the city of Champions Yeah. Has put us on the map. Again. We are the city of champions. It [00:22:00] was, yeah. Yeah, Brett Gilliland: I dunno. Hope if I’ve ever had so many chills in an interview, man, this is amazing. Absolutely amazing. And so, uh, I think October 6th was, Dawn Harper-Nelson: uh, named Don Harper. Nelson Day, wasn’t it? That’s weird too. Yes. I Illinois, Brett Gilliland: October, uh, sixth. Yeah, that’s my son’s birthday. So is it? I’ll have to remember that now. Well, there we go. We’ll celebrate you as well. Um, and so I think when you talk about that, the sacrifice, what I’m always blown away by for Olympic athletes is it’s the time of commitment, right? Yep. And, and, I mean, all athletes, you gotta be in peak performance. Mm-hmm. And all that stuff. Mm-hmm. But I think an Olympic athlete, you only get to perform for how many heats did you have plus the Olympic run. So you have what, three or four heats? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So what is that, 48 seconds? Exactly. Literally. Yeah. Literally. So you put it together. So think about that. Mm-hmm. Four years. Mm-hmm. More than four years of work. Yeah. Right. I know what you’re saying. Really. Yeah. Four years of work. Mm-hmm. For 48 Dawn Harper-Nelson: seconds. Yes. And that’s why I’ve, I heard someone say, you know, when you see people like cross a line, they’ve won the middle. They’re like, why is everyone always crying? And so I’m like, what? Yeah. You don’t [00:23:00] under a life, Lives have been sacrificed. Like all the moments, all the Thanksgivings that I love with my family. I don’t, I didn’t live in Illinois because the best place for me to be would be California to train with Bobby Kersey at ucla. No other place. All family reunions get togethers. My niece being born. Everything you miss everything. That is what the emotion is. It is, I missed everything. You know what I mean? Like, I did not married, not ki No kids, all these things that a woman, oh, I would love to, not yet, not yet. That’s why we lose it at the finish line. And guys too, just all the things that they’ve sacrificed as well. So Brett Gilliland: now let’s, let’s fast forward to today. Okay? And, um, Obviously you’re still in great shape, so, so what are you doing now, uh, to stay mentally and physically in the game? As a mom? Mm-hmm. You’re speaking? Mm-hmm. You’re doing all sorts of stuff now. What’s, what’s the purpose? What’s Dawn Harper-Nelson: the plan today? Oh man. The purpose and the plan is to, it is give back. Like it is to continue to grow. But right now I am enjoying giving back. So a huge [00:24:00] part of what I do is my husband, he’s a high school math teacher, but he’s also the head track coach at Belleville West. So him being the head coach, of course, I’m like, well, I’ll help out a little. And you know, of course I’m not. He’s like, I would never ask you to come every day. But you just find yourself, just show up, falling in love with those raggedy little boys, right? They’re hilarious, they’re crazy. They have all the questions. And then I’m this female. Yeah, because I’m not Olympic champion at first. When you first come in, you’re Mr. Nelson’s wife. The ones now they know me, but the younger ones, it’s like, who is this? They don’t say it, but like, who? Who’s this chick telling me? Right. Like knees up, toes up, may up something, she may know something. Okay. Knees up, toes up. And eventually I’m like, okay. And I’m like, don’t say nothing. I tell ’em about me in a second and then the other boy’s like, do you know? I’m like, shh, don’t tell them. And then I’m like, no, let’s go ahead and warm up. Cause I’m about to bust you up. Like you got all the questions you think I don’t know what I’m talking about. And. So still got it. Awesome. Listen, you got, I have to because every, you still gotta every now and then whoop on some people, right? Because [00:25:00] people wanna erase you and, uh, but no, it is fun because now you get to just all the things that you’ve went through, the times that you cried and you’re like, what is this for God? When will I ever need this lesson? Yeah. I didn’t ask for that. It’s like, oh, this little. Kids over there crying. And I’m like, okay. And then you talk to ’em, you just see the light bulb go off and they’re like, oh, okay. So that, and then, I mean, I’ve been to a bunch of universities now. I do consulting work with universities, talking with to the athletes, and they’re just like, I. Thank you. Like, and I’m like, I never thought that this experience could help someone in the way that it has. Yeah. To, like I said, for them to continue to believe in their dream and to go forward. Um, and then I enjoy, I, I enjoy people. Yeah. That is, I’m a people person. Yeah. So, It’s been really nice. Brett Gilliland: It’s awesome. Yeah, so awesome. What would you go back and tell yourself, if you could go back to maybe the 2000 and so the Olympics was 2008 and 2012, but what would you tell the 2004, 2005 Don Harper Dawn Harper-Nelson: Nelson? Um, [00:26:00] okay. I would tell her that your opinion is the only one that matters. Like, yes, you have your support group. Right. Yeah. But your opinion is the one that matters because in this sport of track and field, it is very much a what have you done for me lately? Yeah. And so what you start to do is warp your, your opinion on, well, this last race. I mean, okay, I did good, but I didn’t do like I won and oh, am I worth this? Am I, because each race, you’re proving yourself over and over. And if a race doesn’t go well, you feel like absolute crap. And so now the next race, you’re like, I gotta prove, what are you proving after you’ve won? Like you sound, you know, not even saying after you’ve won, but after I won the gold, you literally find yourself trying to prove yourself. Yeah. What else do you, so my thing is, is if winning the gold medal doesn’t satisfy people, Yeah. So your opinion, 2004 Dawn, you have won, quote unquote nothing on the standard [00:27:00] that you want. You are still worth it, and your opinion is the only one that matters. Brett Gilliland: I’m writing down a question I’m gonna ask you here in a minute. Mm-hmm. But, um, and, and so that, that does, so there, I made a post yesterday and I said, um, something like your vision, what I believe, right? My vision. Has to be, there has to be more belief mm-hmm. In my vision and what we’re gonna do and what we’re gonna build than anybody else’s doubt. Yeah. Oh, right. Because imagine saying, Hey, um, I’m this little girl from East St. Louis. Mm-hmm. I’m gonna go win the gold medal in Olympics. Oh yeah. Well, I mean, 9 99 outta a hundred people are gonna say you’re crazy. Absolutely right. But your belief has to be greater than their doubt. So how did that play out in your Dawn Harper-Nelson: life for you? Oh man. Uh, how it played out is, there’s a really good example and I love it because there, my uncle was in the barbershop when I went off to U ucla and this guy told him, does not know me. Mm-hmm. He told him, oh, I bet, I bet you money. She’s not gonna make it past her first quarter. Oh boy. And I told my uncle, he will pay you that money. And he had to pay up that money Uhhuh. And so just that example of how does that play out in your [00:28:00] life? People will openly say, yeah, you know, sometimes you deal with like you think and you’ve kind of heard someone tell you, someone said, yeah. It’s like, no, people will openly say this to you of, so what you’s the sports Brett Gilliland: stars, right? The newspapers they Dawn Harper-Nelson: put on social media could every, now everyone has the right to just speak their mind. And now did I read, now it’s on my phone. So it’s right there in your face of you win a race. Like, yeah, but she didn’t do da, da da. She’s not good enough. She can’t do, she won’t be able to do it in a month. She won’t be able to do it next year. Can she all the just in your hand. Yeah. Did you read that stuff? Um, sometimes it did, and it got to me, and that’s why I said your opinion, but it’s how do you not read some of this stuff? Because within that stuff is also your supporters, right? And so you have those messages, but then you have like a hundred of like, oh my God, don’t, you’re so inspiring and thank you so much, blah, blah, blah. And you’re like, you’re trash. Oh gosh. Woo. Like, how did that jump out? It, but it is, but you have to find your, like, okay, how do you let 50 out of 10,000 Yeah. Bother [00:29:00] you? Yeah. Brett Gilliland: So how do you find now, and, and this is the question I wrote down mm-hmm. That I wanted to ask is I, I had a picture that, um, you know, phenomenal major league baseball pitcher for the Cardinals told me one time that the, the adrenaline of coming out of that bullpen. Mm. You got 48,000 people, 50,000 people screaming for you. The game is on the line. Yep. Heart’s popping. Right? Yep. You can’t replace that. No. So now when we’re running in the Olympics, how do you replace the adrenaline? Mm-hmm. Like how do you find that now? Mm-hmm. To not want to crave Dawn Harper-Nelson: more of that. Right. Right. Um, so I think one thing that was helpful, and my husband, thank you for him, Lord, because he was very clear on, do not walk away from this sport until you’re done. Because he said, I cannot fill that void for you. And because he knew when we got married at 28, you know, I was like, oh, like two more years. You know, we’re gonna have kids, we’re gonna have kids. And he’s like, okay. And he just never was like You said two. Yeah. And then like three years and then four years kind of happened and then like five. And I remember just feeling kind of that [00:30:00] weight of like, oh, I told him, but I don’t really wanna bring it back up cuz I’m still having fun. Right. Kind of competing. He never. Question. Never said, Hey there lady. You know, you kind of said, and so I remember I said I was gonna retire in after 17 and then I told him this and I made the whole announcement like I’m gonna retire. And I literally, it was after world championships and I had gotten silver and I was like, I’m not done. And I’m like, how do I say this when I’ve told him I’m gonna move home? Cuz we lived in, oh, he lived in Illinois and I lived in California for first six years of our marriage. Oh wow. So I told him I’m coming home in the fifth year. How do you say actually? Um, and so I remember I was like, babe, so I have, um, I got something I kind of wanna say. And he’s like, I know. And I’m like, no, you don’t. And then he’s like, I know. And I’m like, okay, I, now I gotta say it. Cause he thinks he knows. And I’m like, I kind of wanna keep running. He’s like, I know. And I was like, what? And he’s like, babe, I know you. He’s like, you’re not done. I was like, thank. And I started crying, like, thank you so much for. Making sure that you [00:31:00] and the blessing is I was healthy enough to go until I felt like I was done. And so that that helped when I was ready to walk away my yearning to be someone’s mom. And to be a wife of like a so-called full-time wife, cuz you’re always full-time wife. Right. But to be someone’s mom was a bigger pull on me than that. Um, but I will say being connected to my sport is very, very helpful. Yeah. So I still do commentating. Um, and so when I watch, I still jump on my phone every now and then and record myself watching it. And it is, I get all the feels, I get all the like, but because I still work out, it makes me realize. I don’t need that action anymore cuz I don’t wanna die on the track. Yeah. The way that I had to, I know what it takes to be on that podium. Yeah. That’s just a commitment that I’m not willing to make. And so I think for me, that’s what’s helpful is me understanding that I’m really okay being done. Brett Gilliland: Yeah, that’s good. That’s great. I, I heard too, I read during my research, there was this one kid in high school, boy that you couldn’t beat. Um, and [00:32:00] so now I’d like, have you really, have you seen where this guy’s life has gone? Like, you know anything about Dawn Harper-Nelson: this guy anymore? I think he has the best life out here. It’s my husband. Yes, it was. It’s just the craziest thing that, that like whose story I tell ’em all the time and we are really like affair. Like, I’m like, it sounds crazy cuz people are like, how are they on the inside? We’re really like a fairytale because to be the only girl. And so they put me in with all the boys in eighth grade and for him to be the one that beats me. And I was like, Who is that boy? I was like, I wanna race him. I don’t lose. And he said he was really like, But I’m a boy. Why is she so mad? Because I was, I was like, so when are we racing again? And they’re like, the race is over. I’m like, no, no. That was first round. Um, but no. And so just as time went on, our friendship really grew from that. Yeah. And we never dated until we were 27 years old. Oh, wow. So he was always my cute friend, Alonzo. Um, but we were always friends that held each other accountable. Yeah. Like in high school. So we went to high school together. Always friends that seriously, like if in the hallway he’s [00:33:00] like, you know, you’re supposed to be, and I’m like, dude, like why you always telling me? You know, you’re supposed to be. Yeah. But it was a fun, serious friendship. Yeah. You know? And so it was, it was good. That’s awesome. Yeah. That’s awesome. Brett Gilliland: I love that. I saw that, that he beat you. What’s so weird. Um, last couple questions here. One of the questions I ask all the time for people is fears. Uh, there there’s fears we put in our mind. Mm-hmm. Right. Yes. How many of the fears you put in your mind actually blew up to the magnitude you put ’em in your mind to be? Dawn Harper-Nelson: I have one. Let’s hear it. That is, you gotta be kidding me. It is a picture and it’s like, I used it, I had to do a, um, I did an aha speaker series at the Stifel Theater and, um, And I said, this is perfect. It’s one of those situations once again where I said, when will I ever use this? And I remember thinking, and I’m preparing myself for like, okay, I’m gonna talk to, yeah. You know, this theater, what is going to like, shock them? And I was like, oh God, I got it. Uh, I always just had this fear of falling in a race. Like a major race though. Not like the, the one, yeah. Um, and [00:34:00] so 2008 in Beijing, I won. Now it’s 2015 and I’m the favorite. To win Beijing. That’s where it all came from. Right. Okay. I already know how this goes. And I remember it was just the talk. I felt like it was finally like, they were like, dawns the one. Dawns the one. And, um, Gun goes off and my coach, we have been really working on, we’re gonna stay head down and we’re really running through those first two hurdles. We’re going to drive, we’re moving. And I remember even in practice I would do it, but we have hurdle paths on the hurdle. So if you hit it, it’s, it’s literally foam, so it just knocks it off. It hurts you. You won’t hit the hurdle. So you just know, oh man, I would’ve hit. And I remember sometimes I would kind of peek up because it’s dangerous to run at a hurdle and not. See, see it. Yeah. And, and I’m like, but are you really gonna commit? And I remember standing at the line, I’m like, look, we’re here. I’m like, I’m gonna trust you guys. I’m like, you know, too many times, you know, I have question. It, it time is now, you know, right in the blocks, head down, gun goes off. First [00:35:00] hurdle, smooth, second hurdle, I’m on the ground. Mm. And now everyone, I was gone. Everyone now has passed me and now they’re gone. Yeah, you didn’t catch And I’m the favorite twin. Well, the, you’re on the ground and I remember sitting there and there’s a picture of me, no one else is on the track. And I’m sitting there on the ground and I’m like, I’m just, and there’s an official on the side and he’s like, ma’am, ma’am, now cuz the right, the, the event is going on now it’s the next he’s, and I’m like, and I was like, I’m coming. What just happened? That was the most I, the thing is, I think it’s almost one of those, and it’s like, you know, you don’t know if God works that way, but it’s almost like you need to experience this. No, life is not over because I just felt like if that ever happened, oh my God, I was on the ground, and of course I understood. This was the second time in my life that my husband’s face put in perspective the magnitude of what had happened. And I come around, I’m walking down and I’m just like, [00:36:00] What is going on? And I finally see my husband and his fa the look on his face of like pure shock and just unbelief was, I was like, oh my God, I did fall. I fell. I mean, I’m scraped up. Yeah, but it’s like his face. I messed, like I fell. Yeah. And I remember I still had spikes and everything on, and the media is there, like, okay. Interviews. Interviews. And I’m like, I need a moment. I can’t, you know, keep this together. So I go to the back, I lay on the ground and I just lose it. And he’s taking my spikes off and I’m, I’m mean, I’m just like, I’m putty. Yeah. I am. Complete putty. But the media’s still outside. Like, we’re waiting on you. Whenever you’re ready. When you’re ready. And um, I think it was Joanna, my, one of my old training partners, she came over and she’s like, You got this. Like get it together. Get it together. And I go back out and I, and I do all the interviews and I get done and I like, I just lose it again. And now I have to go to the medical tent cuz I’m jacked up. Yeah. And so they’re like putting, and I’m burning cuz it’s just like, scars, scars, scars. [00:37:00] And it’s just like, it was just the worst situation ever. And so, like you said, that was my fear and that happened. And like I said, sometimes it’s okay. Have your moment. Yeah. But I had a race coming up after that. That was the Diamond League trophy was on the line. So do you carry that to that race? Yeah. Do you carry that? Oh my gosh. The worst can happen. What if it happens again? Well, I went and I won my third one. Brett Gilliland: Mm, love it. So last question for you. Okay. This is, uh, I always tell people, sometimes I want you to give your your locker room. This is your locker room, halftime speech, right. Teams down. Like whatever it is you got right now. You got a, a, a little boy or a little girl that needs to hear a message. Okay. Right. And, and they’re gonna listen to a, uh, Olympic gold medalist. Mm-hmm. Give them their halftime speech. Wow. What do you Dawn Harper-Nelson: tell ’em? Oh man, this is intense. I wanna Oh, and a wrap. No, it’s sweat. It’s okay. No, it’s just, it’s one of those, you, for me, I guess I would, I, like I said, for me, I’m gonna understand the gravity of this [00:38:00] situation, and I’m telling them I. What we have not done. What you have not done is all the hard work. You remember that time you couldn’t go out with your friends. You remember, and I’m just pointing out Yeah. You remember when you couldn’t, you remember. You remember, you remember that time you were nervous. Hmm. All that. I’m like sitting that now. Put that stuff outside, right? Because what we will not do is give them that you will not give, you will not give up on your dream right now. Tomorrow you will be smiling. Tomorrow you will be happy because you went out there and you left it all on the line. What we’re going to do is go in. What we’re going to do is work for this is This is the last sacrifice. Yeah. Right. Go out there and kill. Kill. I’m not here to be soft on my words. Kill. Mm. Brett Gilliland: I’m not here to be soft in my words. No kill. And don’t you think God wants abundance thinking like, like they want you to. He wants you to Dawn Harper-Nelson: think right. Uhhuh. I mean, you said [00:39:00] abundance thinking. Yeah, absolutely. I, I just feel like if it’s not meant to be, it won’t be, because I’m like, well, maybe I shouldn’t. Yeah. I want it all. Yeah. And so if I don’t get it, it’s because I wasn’t supposed to have it. I want it all. So go out there and keep, get So, and it’s funny when I say, you know, soft talking because sometimes, you know, it’s like, oh, is that kind of harsh? No, I say kill. When I say kill, I’m talking about go out there and execute. Yeah. Yeah, everything, whatever sport this is, soccer you. You know when this person makes that move, you know what you’re supposed to do. Yeah. Don’t second guess it, do it. It is second nature. By this point. If we are in this game, you have been here before, that means you deserve to be here. If we had a track meeting, you get to the third hurdle. You know what move you’re supposed to make, don’t you second guess. If you second guess, you’re giving them another inch. We don’t have inches in track and field that we can give. Mm-hmm. Brett Gilliland: It’s pretty badass. I’m fired up. I can run through a brick wall right now. All right. No. Well, uh, Don Harper Nelson, thank you so much for being on the Circuit of Success. Where do our listeners find more of you [00:40:00] and, uh, where can they find you? Dawn Harper-Nelson: Yes, absolutely. So Instagram and um, Twitter is the same d harp. 100 mh. And then Facebook is my name, Dawn Harper Nelson. Awesome. Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, thanks so much for being with us today. Of course. Amazing, amazing story. Thank you for bringing all this stuff. Of course. Not every day you get to hold a, you know, Olympic gold medal, so it’s uh, an honor to be able to do that, uh, and your hard work. Dawn Harper-Nelson: Amazing. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. This is awesome.