The Circuit of Success Podcast with Brett Gilliland

Wendy Swire is an author, speaker, professor, and leadership consultant who is best known as the “Brain Geek” Executive Coach to her C-Suite clients. As founder of the DC Neuroleadership Group and Certified Mental Fitness Coach, she has helped thousands better understand their brains to create laser-focused results by moving from their “Saboteur” to the “Sage Brain.” EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION Brett Gilliland  00:01 Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host Brett Gilliland and today I’ve got Wendy Sherwin Swire with me, Wendy, how you doing? Wendy Swire  00:08 Awesome. I’m so glad to be here. Thank you for having me. Brett Gilliland  00:12 Good to be with you. You’re calling in from Bethesda, Maryland. How’s it going out in Bethesda, Maryland today? Wendy Swire  00:19 Yes, Maryland is doing just fine. It’s, we got a late fall, warm fall going on. I think a lot of parts of the country so,  Brett Gilliland  00:27 Amazing, isn’t it? Wendy Swire  00:28 Yeah, it’s pretty wild. So people are in fine spirits. Brett Gilliland  00:32 So a guy I connected to on Instagram this morning, he was put on there that he was working outside in his back deck in shorts and a T-shirt. He’s like in November in New York, if I’m getting shorts and T-shirt, I’m doing it.  Wendy Swire  00:44 Yeah, it’s pretty good. It’s nice. So thank you for asking. Brett Gilliland  00:47 Absolutely. Well, you are, everyone knows you as the health benefits. Everybody knows, I should say the health benefits of staying in shape physically, right. But there’s also this little thing here, if you’re watching on point, if you’re listening, I’m pointing to my brain here. There’s a lot that goes on right up in here. And so you are an expert on what I would say all things brain is the way I’m going to word it. But I think it’s gonna be awesome to have a conversation with you today about that stuff. But if you could Wendy, you know, you’ve been a global executive and leadership coach, you’re an author, a speaker, an applied neuroscience consultant, I mean, what’s the backstory? Right, what’s made you the woman you are today? Wendy Swire  01:24 Yeah, I love that question, as a coach, it’s a wonderful question. And I hope what people ask it of each other. So I think there’s three things, Brett, that I want to emphasize. The first is I’m a really big proponent of the energy, emotional energy and positive contagion really. And I really lucked out, I had a father, who was, you know, rags, and just poor as dirt grew up, but he really had positive energy. He was a successful entrepreneur, and just had a lot of joy in his life. So I want your listeners to really know there is neuroscience behind this, but your positive emotions are contagious, like, like the flu, like COVID. So super important. And I had that growing up. So I had a very much a role model of what that can do.  Brett Gilliland  02:13 Right.  Wendy Swire  02:14 Yield to success. The other thing I would say there’s a couple others. The other is, you know, my story is I really, really wanted to be a diplomat and economic diplomat and work on a lot of issues about poverty. And when I was young, I was in high school and college and I really thought I really thought I was going to solve poverty, like particularly in Latin American poverty and debt, I was really into it. And I actually trained, I did a stint on Wall Street to prepare me and I actually got a master’s degree in, to train as a diplomat as a diplomat in diplomacy. Yeah. And, you know, I’m getting ready. I got a good job in the State Department of the World Bank, and my father, this beloved patriarch that I just spoke of, he got diagnosed with like stage three cancer. And I’m in my mid 20s. And it was a real point, it was a crossroads. I think we all you know, I’m sure you have your listeners have you reach a crossroads? Like, do I do this or don’t I, and a door in my life had to shut down that I wasn’t going to live overseas, I decided my family being close to my sisters, and my, my parents was important to me. Well, let’s fast forward. 15-20 years later, I now work with those diplomats as a coach, trainer. So you just never know in life, you got to pivot. You got to you know, right now we call it where it’s like adaptability, flexibility. But I can’t just tell you a door shuts down, you sort of catch your breath, and just like, “Okay, what’s going to open up?” And the work I’m doing now opened up because I’m not a diplomat. And the last thing is what makes me sort of the woman I am today is obviously my family, faith’s important, values. But I think for me, because, you know, the podcast, Follow Curiosity. I’m insanely curious, and just that there’s a lot of really cool neuroscience on that. But if you’re curious, you know, listeners, if you’re curious about something, listen to that whisper, because that’s what led me to, you know, I left the field of wanting to be a diplomat, I studied hardcore science in economics and finance. It led me to the field more of business management leadership. And now as a coach, it also led me to neuroscience. Someone mentioned something to me and someone gave me a book. And I, yeah, I just got so interested in the brain. So you just never ever know what tidbit, you’re going to pick up in this podcast or a book or if I’m talking to someone on a plane, you just never know. Follow your curiosity, Brett. So I hope. Brett Gilliland  04:45  I love that and I think that’s that’s one of the reasons I continue to do a podcast you know, five and a half years later and you’re the 300 and eighth person I’ve interviewed and had the privilege to interview and you’ll learn a lot, right? And but, but you do have to be curious because I find little the little nugget, right, that I can take up from everybody is a big deal. I mean, even as you saying, I know this, your positive energy is contagious. I’ve said that a ton of times, but when you really slow down and look at as contagious as getting COVID or the flu, right, we worry about that stuff. But we don’t worry about our energy do we? We don’t think about that as our negative energy is just as bad as our as spreading the COVID or, or the flu, right? Wendy Swire  05:26 100%. And there’s really cool science on it and research on it that if you’re negative, even if you think I’m keeping it to myself, I hide my emotions. No one can tell, people can pick it up even on Zoom. People can pick it up, in person. Yeah, it’s pretty wild. Brett Gilliland  05:40 Yeah, that’s crazy. So you’re also known for techniques to train and rewire the brain to be more positive. So I think in today’s world, right, we’ve got these cell phones that want to give us all the notifications and all the crap that goes on in the world and all the negativity and, and it just, it just gets to be a lot and you turn on the TV, whatever it is. So what are some steps, some real like the meat and potatoes type stuff that our listeners can take from this podcast that can help rewire the brain to be more positive? Wendy Swire  06:11 Yeah, that’s a great question. Thank you so much for asking. That’s, that’s my favorite thing to talk about. I think there’s a couple really, really practical neuro hacks that anyone, anyone can use. Okay. The first is, I think we’ve all heard it, but gratitude, rewires your brain. Gratitude. So, if you are a person, if something good happens in your day, a tiny little thing, like you get a really nice text from a friend or, you know, your child or friend smiles at you or you know, says something funny, or like today, you look outside and everyone look, look outside your window, is it a nice day Sunny, whatever it is, if you take that positive moment and hold on to it. This is called a fancy term I’ll throw out here self directed positive neuroplasticity. But what that means is, you know, your brain has a built in negativity bias, let me rephrase that you are built in to be negative, that is your wiring that you had that we’ve had for hundreds of 1000s of years. So you have to lay new neuronal tracks. So any little thing you do this, like, hey, you know what I’m talking right now to Brett, and it’s fun, I’m having a good time. Or I just have this really nice cup of coffee. And I’m taking a sip from Starbucks, and I’m just going to take 30 seconds and enjoy the coffee, you are laying tracks to be more positive. The other thing is, and this is another practice, I give almost all of my coach, my executives who are my coaching clients is at night, take a piece of paper, write down the three or four things that you are grateful for. If you can get to do 10, great, I encourage you to write because you’ll use a part of your brain you’ll activate the creative part of your brain that keyboard it. But even if you don’t have time to write it, you don’t have a journal, keep a journal by your bed stand. But if you don’t have time, even think about it. That act itself, the research has shown helps. It just helps in so many different ways. And you’re literally starting to rewire your brain. Try that for 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, every day. I call it an appreciation audit. Audit your audit your day, before you go to bed. What would you what do you appreciate? And for my parents, grandparents, family members, try doing that at the dinner table or as you’re taking your kid to a soccer game. Hey, what do we appreciate about today? Excellent practice. So think of that one as a practical. Brett Gilliland  08:39 I love that. And it’s I use a daily planner that I’ve created. This is 20 years in the making in my career. And I’ve finally got it all in one booklet of things that I do but but it is it’s it says three here today I’m grateful for right and I start dispersing I do when I get in the office, I write down three or four things that I’m grateful for. And it’s hard, right? Because sometimes like well, I mean, it’s as silly as it sounds, but I’m thankful for clean water. Right?  Wendy Swire  09:06 Right. Yeah.  Brett Gilliland  09:07 I’m thankful to be able to breathe, take a deep breath, clean air and but like then there’s part of me, it’s like God, am I just like, am I not deep enough to think like, all these things, but I think that stuff matters. But here’s my pushback on that. So one, I’m 100% believer in it. Okay. I also have an exercise I do at the end of every calendar quarter, I look at every single picture I’ve taken on my phone, and I write down exactly what I did and who I experienced it with in a brown journal that I have over here. So I’m again, I’m a big believer in that but what about the times you don’t feel like that? You’re like, I don’t want to write down what I’m thankful for. I’m just pissed off and in a bad mood. I don’t want to do this right. What advice do you have there? Wendy Swire  09:47 Yeah, so what happens is, this is even more important when you’re feeling crappy. Okay? When you’re tired when you’re fatigued when you are worried about your finances or or politics or whatever it is, right? So or the state of the world. So I think what happens is when you are in a negative place, you’re stressed about work, you’re working hard, you know, this and that’s going on, you never feel you have enough time, you’re producing a very powerful chemical in your brain called cortisol. Very, very powerful. By just taking a moment and doing something positive, you’re actually creating a different neurochemical, okay, it doesn’t override that. You can’t have the cortisol and the norepinephrine, or the dopamine or the serotonin, you can have the feel good chemicals. Brett Gilliland  10:38 They can’t coexist. Wendy Swire  10:39 They can’t coexist, they can go one right after each other. So you are literally playing with powerful, powerful chemicals in your brain. So that’s why the practices work. So it’s not just kumbaya, and let’s light candles, and feel gratitude stuff is literally changing chemicals in your brain. So I would encourage people just one thing, you know, and it could be “Yeah, you know what, I got out of bed today,” you know, my favorite quote is from Pitbull, the rapper, you know, “every day above ground is a good day.” Brett Gilliland  11:07 It’s right. Wendy Swire  11:08 Could be that it could be you know, the fresh air, or you know what, I had a bed to sleep on or I had a meal tonight. So any little thing doesn’t have to be beat deep, deep, big, you know, I’m grateful it can be the same thing every day. The idea is that you literally are laying new neuronal tracks in your brain, that’s the power of this stuff. Brett Gilliland  11:28 Wow. So it’s literally like a slow drip. I mean, it’s like a drip of actual chemical that comes out and seeps out of our body or out of our brain into our bodies, and, and so on. So that’s amazing. So gratitude. Okay, so that’s one what’s what’s the second one? Wendy Swire  11:41 I think another neuro hack is, the brain has multiple different regions, it’s got that primitive, we’ve called it the lizard brain, it’s really not accurately, they know that’s not 100% accurate, but doesn’t matter. It’s a great metaphor, you can use and then you have an emotional brain, which is a little higher up. And then you have your, if all the listeners take your hand and put on your forehead, that right behind your forehead, that’s your executive functioning, I call that your C-suite brain, right? So even by asking yourself a question, you need 30 milliseconds, milliseconds, that’s like 1,000th of a second to move from that reactive, primitive fight or flight brain to more of your executive thinking brain. So when I’m in a really stressful situation, so I had a situation a couple years ago, on a business trip, my  aptop got stolen, I was in a panic. And I just remember sitting down, I was at the hotel when I realized it, and I’m like, “Okay, what part of my brain am I in?” What part of the brain Am I in? Am I in my reptile reactive brain? Or I’m in my thinking, calmer brain?  Brett Gilliland  12:54 Yeah.  Wendy Swire  12:54 And just ask yourself a question. And the key takeaway is to buy time, you want to buy time from moving from the lizard, to the C-suite. Brett Gilliland  13:07 So that’s that lizard is tell me more about that. Wendy Swire  13:11 So your lizard brain. And again, it’s just an analogy, we do share this parts of the brain, the lower the lower deep stuff. So if listeners take your neck and go to that part between your neck where your head is kind of attached to your body, right back there, that’s way deep stuff back there, brainstem, it is the part of your brain that controls all autonomic functions, everything you do, your brain is like breathing and closing your eyes. And you don’t have to worry about your heart beating, do you?  Brett Gilliland  13:43 No.  Wendy Swire  13:43 That part of your brain takes care of it, all these functions, that and it’s also the part that you know, will kind of take care of the fact that your heart pumps, your blood pumps, you know it, that’s the part of the brain if you’re thirsty, what do you do?  Brett Gilliland  14:00 Take a drink of water.  Wendy Swire  14:01 100%, great, perfect answer. If you’re hot, you know, you take your sweater off that kind of stuff. So that’s the part of the brain that when you are totally triggered and stressed out, and like kind of it’s right, it’s linked to the emotional part of your brain, which sits on top of it. But that’s the part of your brain that’s going to react to protect you. So you’ve got a 24-hour ADT alarm system in your brain to protect you. That’s the part. So you just got to kind of move away from it. And to move to your thinking brain and that’s what the question does. What part of the brain am I in? Okay, let me just catch a deep breath. It’s gonna be okay. Brett Gilliland  14:37 It’s kind of just rewiring, recalibrating, if you will saying, “Okay, I know I’m in the wrong department,” if you will. “Now it’s time to get in the right department.” Wendy Swire  14:44 Love it! Yep, I’m in the wrong part of the store. I got to get to the right part of the store. That’s right. Brett Gilliland  14:49 What are some things that we can do, you know, personally at home or at work that to trigger Brain Stuff? I mean, whether that’s reading whether it’s you know, I play Wordle for I find that if I can kind of do the Wordle thing before I go to bed, I don’t know if it’s actually working or not, but seems like I get a pretty decent night’s sleep. And it’s not just because of Wordle. But, you know, so those things if it’s sitting in a sauna for 20 minutes, I mean, what are some things that we can do to help stimulate the brain from a positive standpoint? Wendy Swire  15:17 Yeah, so I love that. Okay, a couple tips. One is your brain is something like 70% water, maybe even more, drink a ton, a ton, a ton of water.  Brett Gilliland  15:28 Yeah. Wendy Swire  15:28 More water than you think. Okay, more water than you think. And I encourage my coaching clients, I’m like, “Are you drinking water?” And they’re like, “I drink a lot.” I’m like, I want you to double listeners, I want you to double the amount of water you’re drinking, that’s gonna–– Brett Gilliland  15:41 to interrupt that. And so I love that. So again, my journal water intake is––  Wendy Swire  15:45 100 percent, 100 percent.  Brett Gilliland  15:47 ––drinks. And so what’s funny is I wear this thing called a whoop, if you’ve ever heard of that, but it’s, it’s about the fight or flight type deal on your body, you and you’re stressed, you’re in, water intake to sleep, and anything, everything really your fitness. But I found it’s crazy. I have worse sleep. If I have seven to 12 glasses of water a day, I have better sleep than if I have less than seven. But if I have greater than 12 glasses of water today, my sleep is actually worse. Wendy Swire  16:13 Yeah. Well, you’re calibrating to your body, probably you may have to get up in the middle of the night and do a little bio break there. But I think I think for me, you want to flush out some of those nasty mean cortisol, those chemicals, those that, that when you’re triggered that, that chemical we just talked about the water will flush it out. And that’s really important. I am a huge, I’m glad you talked about sleep, if you want to increase positivity of the brain, you know, we could do a whole rest of the session on sleep, sleep hygiene. Sleep is a superpower. It’s not it is it is just like it is literally like taking kryptonite or whatever you know, it’s like a super, it’s a super you want to supercharge your emotions, your work performance, your cognitive performance. Sleep is critical. Which means about you know, half an hour, let I love the fact of doing Wordle or you’re reading you’ve got to get off your screens at everyone knows this. We’ve heard this. But there’s science behind it. You got to start to quiet your brain, our brains are so active, they’re so bombarded. So a lot of it is in the third is daydreaming, taking a break looking out the window, taking a walk with the dog on plug it is not a waste of time, you are not being inefficient, you’re actually taking great care of your brain. And letting certain networks in the brain just give you your best thoughts. So where do you do your best thinking, Brett? Brett Gilliland  17:43 I do mine in the morning, when it’s maybe before everybody’s up and I can just sit in a quiet room and just chill by myself. I’m a big believer now on these saunas just got a sauna. And it’s been incredible and in the time in there, because you don’t there’s nothing to do right, you just sitting there. And so I find that those are my two spots. Wendy Swire  18:05 And not that a lot of my senior executives do their best thinking in the shower. When your body is relaxed. It is not a coincidence. When your body’s relaxed, your brain can relax, you’ll have your highs, you’ll have creative insights. So the sauna, anything, you can do hot water or cold in a hot bath, anything that you can do just to start to feel more relaxation and your body will allow your brain to make connections and relax. It’s not a coincidence. A lot of people get their energy, you get our best insights sitting in front of a computer doing an email. Well most people I know don’t. Brett Gilliland  18:41 Yeah, and I call that a strategic thing time. For me it’s stts if you look at my calendar, every Wednesday, it’s gonna be on there from 1-2:30 and it’s me, the black journal, and an ink pen, and no technology. And I’ve even found that it’s hard. I always felt like I was failing early on when I was doing this. I’ve been doing it since July of ’05, so long time but you can still feel like you’re failing because oh, I need to be doing this or I need to doing that. Or I got to make that call. I gotta send that email. But I’m telling you, it’s been the best use of time and the people I coach and then my clients or whoever. I mean, those are the things we always go back to how much alone time are you spending just thinking with an ink pen and a piece of paper? Wendy Swire  19:20 Yeah, I love that. And if you can’t if that seems hard for you if you need to take a walk, take a walk, nature getting outside fresh air for exhausted and anything where you’re just letting yourself unplug, and allowing yourself that freedom, huge, huge spikes in productivity. So those are great practice best practices. I think just to get back to your question. The other thing is really monitor who you hang out with and the new, your news intake. Because remember, the brain has that prewired negativity bias. So you know what are you consuming? Are you consuming like junk food we know not great for your body? Well junk junk inputs, junk people who are negative, who are bringing it down. Always, you know, are you Doom scrolling? That stuff will take an effect on your brain? You’ve got to be a really, you know, on the listeners of your podcast are, they’re listening for a reason. They’re success-oriented. They’re motivated. They want to get better at their game. Yeah, really monitor what you’re what you’re feeding your brain. Brett Gilliland  20:21 Yep. So I’m hearing gratitude, water intake, sleep, Daydream monitor who you hang out with in your news intake. These are phenomenal, right? You can stop the podcast right here and say there’s five takeaways and listeners, go do a test and see how you’re doing on that. Right. So speaking of tests, I’m going to give you a test right now. That’s okay. Like, Oh, nobody I love it makes the circuits of success or your attitudes, your belief system, your actions that you take to ultimately get results in your life. So what’s one thing that you would say from an attitude? And maybe it’s everything we’ve just talked about? Can you scale yourself from a scale of one to 10? How you’re doing right now? Currently? How are you doing right now, is Wendy Sherwin Swire doing on your attitude? Wendy Swire  21:09 I’m really lucky. I don’t want to say a 10. Because I don’t know that I’m in the high nines. Yeah, I have, you know, the things that I’m recommending are things I have personally used. You know, I love my parents at a young age, I wasn’t like this, if you had talked to me 10 or 15 years ago, I have trained myself to have a positive attitude, to rewire my brain to do all of these practices. So I live I live in like a state for me in a state of gratitude. My goal is to live in a state of have to be in service to others and be in a state of joy and gratitude as much of the day as I can. So that’s amazing. I met but I had to go through I had to train myself to do this. I did not it wasn’t like oh, you know, this woman, Castile Pollyanna and she woke up was like this as a child? And the answer is no, I wasn’t. Brett Gilliland  22:00 I see. I love that. And that’s why I want to peel the onion layer back there. Because I think there are people that believe that right, there’s Oh, Wendy’s just always been positive. Brett’s always been positive? Well, maybe. But I think there’s a lot of training and a lot of work I’ve done to get to that point. And it sounds like you have as well. Wendy Swire  22:17 Yeah. You know, I really leaned in heavily at the start of the pandemic on this field and mental resiliency, mental fitness. really double down on it. How do you make sure the ratio of are you in positive emotions or negative emotions? Which percentage are you in throughout the day? And really, really up that game? So I would say I’m pretty high in attitude. I don’t want to say 10. That’s a little arrogant, but I’m in the nines, probably. Brett Gilliland  22:43 You’re feeling good! So the next one is your belief system. And let me let me kind of pre-give you some prework on this one. And so so your belief says, I am convinced that doing the professional world for two plus decades now, I know my belief systems, and I know that I can get into a debate, not an argument but a debate with people on things that I know work, that maybe somebody else doesn’t believe, if I were to ask you one or two things that you believe, to your core that will make you successful, what what are those things? Wendy Swire  23:13 Okay, my belief system. One is you don’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed, you can outwork everybody. Yep. And you can, you can, you know, I, I’m really smart. I mean, I work hard, there are people way smarter than I am. But I have a really strong work ethic. So go back to your fundamental skills. And we’re gonna, we know so many of you so many of your guests that you’ve listened to just you just keep at it, and you keep at it. So for me, I think that’s a really big belief. I think the other key belief is really get aligned to your values and what’s most important to you. And you know, what, what are you going after in life? For some people, it’s power money, others, it’s learning, making a difference, impact family, whatever it is, get clarity on that and stick to your True North because everyone else might have a different one, it doesn’t mean that they’re better or worse, they’re just different as when you’ve got your feet on the ground, and you know, your true north and you can get there. But if you’re in a rally, is it this? And I’m agnostic, it can be I as a coach, I have absolutely no value judgment. Yeah, who wants this or that good for them? As long as people know. Brett Gilliland  24:25 Yeah. So the third one is action. So we got to take action. I’m a big big big believer in that that I can sit here and have the best business plan known to man I can be the best whatever. I can know more about stocks, bonds, mutual funds, investments and anybody in the world but if I don’t take action, it doesn’t freakin matter. Right? It’s like I always say people, you know, hockey people. I’m not a huge hockey guy, but if I had the best slap shot in the world, but I couldn’t ice skate. I’m a terrible hockey player. Right? So if we don’t take action so when you when you hear that word action, one or two things, what comes to mind? And then if I I followed you around every single day. What is again one or two things that I would see day in and day out that Wendy’s doing? Wendy Swire  25:07 Yeah, well, let’s let’s pick up with your sports metaphor because I’m a big sports fan. I have two kids, two boys and a husband. We do a lot of sports talk here. I think there’s one is not only can you take action, but let’s go to the famous. Not sure. I’m not sure which hockey player said this, but you got to take the shot on goal.  Brett Gilliland  25:26 Yeah.  Wendy Swire  25:27 Okay, you got to get the shot on goal. So are you taking shots on goal? You got to try. Brett Gilliland  25:31 Yeah, Wayne Gretzky, right? You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Wendy Swire  25:34 100%. So you know, are you taking a shot? And so go back to that quote, which is, are you taking a shot, and if it fails, it fails, you’re going to learn more and failure, I think that’s the first and get uncomfortable. The most successful people fail, and they learn from it and they grow from it. I am not as successful as I am, because of all of my successes is because all the things that I didn’t do, I didn’t learn. So please start taking those shots on goal. And realizing the fear is coming from that limbic reptile brain. So that’s, you know, you’re wired to do that. So you’ve got to overcome that. I think the second what would you see day in day out, I take my morning, my morning rituals really, really seriously. Whether that be morning, you know, meditation, a little bit of prayer, my gratitude, practice working out getting some exercise, I get outside, take the dogs out. So that’s why to do that I gotta go to bed early, which means I really, really prioritize sleep. I sleep a lot more people can’t believe I get a lot done. I’m super productive. And because of those two things. Brett Gilliland  26:33 What time you go to bed at night? 26:35 I’m winding down, I’m trying to wind down by nine and read. Yeah, I lights out at 10. If I want to get up at 5:30-6. And not, I want, I need a lot of sleep because I know the brain science. And I and I am a fanatic about sleep particularly for you know, folks, your listeners who have kids, you know, you gotta get your kids off devices so they can learn the next day. So I might even my kids are in their 20s they know they’re like, “Oh, I sleep more than a lot of our peers.” So–– Brett Gilliland  27:04 Okay, I was gonna ask you that I was gonna ask how old your kids are and how that’s going. So I’ve got I’ve got four boys, I got a 17, 15, 12, and eight. You know, without naming names, some are better than others at sleeping and getting to bed. Right? So how do we do that help us parents right now. They’ve got this device, they want this dang device, right? Other than just obviously being the parent, we just got to take the device and put it away into another room. Other thoughts on that type of stuff? And how do we help our kids sleep more and get off these devices? 27:34 Oh, yeah. Well, I’m sure you’ve had guests or experts on this, like from parenting, but my experiences was teach them the brain science early. They’re like, yeah, you want to be good. You’re on the hockey team or the soccer team or you want to be good at school, you don’t get sleepy, you’re dumbed down. Period. Okay, so let them know. I mean, kids are smart and savvy today. The second thing you say you know that that device of yours is addictive. It’s as addictive as any, we don’t want our kids doing bad drugs do we? Or drinking too, no different. So just say, “Hey, you’re addicting your brain,” you know, Tik Tok videos they are designed to be I mean, they’re fun. They’re designed to addict you. So you got to let kids know you are fighting upstream by not you know, texting all night long. And again, I always link into what’s important to you. What’s important, these kids are very sophisticated. Is it and a lot of kids it’s being social. Okay. So again, you know, some of this, I think a parent’s duty to just say, hey, you know, but a lot of it is when you’re with your family. I mean, my best tip is as a parent is we did not have devices when we had mealtime. Even if you’re grabbing a car, even if we’re grabbing something from Starbucks, you got to drop some off to a soccer game was like, No, duh. I mean, there’s certain periods of the day. If and even if all you can do is like a Saturday night family or dinner, and I’m telling you, when eating pizza, no devices, and your kids won’t like it, but they’ll get used to it. And they’re gonna fight you it but it’s like, that’s just our rules. And you have to not do it. Okay, folks, you have to not be well who is that? Like? Who is the hockey player who said that, “you just don’t go on” or what it brought say what’s this about? You know, you don’t get on the screen to check a fact. You just don’t do it. Brett Gilliland  29:15 Yeah, that’s great. That’s great advice. And it’s hard because you’re right, they are addictive and yeah, you even find yourself I don’t know about you, but like sometimes you do just want to just veg on the brain and scroll and look at some of those funny videos and but it man, it can suck you right it in, can’t it? Wendy Swire  29:30 Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, the science is real on that. I mean, look, it’s fun, but just put a timer so I got 10 minutes to do it. And I always just say you’ll never get that 10 minutes back in your life. But okay, if you want to do it, I’m not you know, again, don’t judge yourself to say I’m going to let myself enjoy it. But it’s, understand that you are competing. Your little self will is competing against billions of dollars from very, very sophisticated technology firms trying to draw you in. Okay, you’re in competition. Yeah, you’re in competition. And I love by the way, I am not a Luddite. Like, I have social media and I, but I monitor, everything is off my phone note. And I just am really, really conscious. I’m a consumer of how I use it. So when I do Facebook, or I’m going to update LinkedIn, and you know, tell people how much I love, being on the podcast, I just do it in blocks, and I’m intentional. And then I stop. You gotta train your brain, man, you got to train your brain. Brett Gilliland  30:31 That’s great. So the last one is results. So we’ve got a great attitude, we’ve got a belief system, we’re taking action every single day, now we have results. So when you think about that, how do you think I know the answer this, but might as well ask the question anyways: How do you focus on results for you personally, or for your clients? Wendy Swire  30:52 Okay, that’s a really, you know, that actually, to me, is a pretty deep question, because we’re all going to define results differently. Absolutely. For some people results is I do a good day at work, I finish a fight, and I’m with my family, others, it’s like, no, I want to achieve this promotion or milestones. So I think it’s getting really clear, what does success look like with your results? What are your benchmarks? What are your measures? What aspect of the result is going to make you feel successful? So for many people, I find that a lot of clients are very successful executives. And they’re starting to wonder. So then I just got to keep chasing, going to the next thing. And I’ll say what, in that result, what is success? Like, what is it? What are you going after? That gets back to your question about I mean, for me know, your values know, what’s, what you’re going after. So I think for results, I will my mind is pretty simple. Because I just want to make a positive impact in the world, I want to I want to ignite positive change in the world, through my clients, you know, in my organization’s for individuals I work with, so I know I’m achieving results. If I know I’m helping people. And I’m in a field where I get to do that. So again, the more that you can tie into at the end of this day, you know, let’s go fat go forward, to go backwards, right. At the end of the day, you know, I wanted the client, it’s a very powerful coaching exercise. And for your listeners, you know, write your obituary now. Yeah. And a lot of coaches may if you if you work, they’ll I don’t deal with everybody. I won’t do with all my clients because they don’t want to think about death or mortality. But write your obituary, like, what do you want to be remembered for? Well, those are the results, then make sure that that’s that you’re doing it. So it’s just really get clarity on what you want to achieve. And once you have clarity, a lot of stuff falls into place. Brett Gilliland  32:43 Like that. I like it a lot. This is all been great. So a couple fun questions. I don’t know do they have in Maryland? Did they do the Powerball lottery thing? Wendy Swire  32:50 They do. They do. Brett Gilliland  32:52 Well I, I have never I’ve never been a lottery person. I’ve never done it. We’re in a gas station. Where can my took my three older boys, we went to the Notre Dame football game this past week. We get to rush the field, which was pretty cool us and our, you know, 2000 closest friends and I thought we’re gonna die when during, you know, everybody’s trying to get off the field. But anyway, we’re on the way home and there’s a sign it says $1.9 billion, right for the Powerball. So I mean, the boys pick some numbers and we’re gonna you know, we’re we keep telling ourselves, we’re going to wake up billionaires tomorrow morning. But anyway, we just–– what’s that? Wendy Swire  33:25 I’m rooting for you and your boys. Brett Gilliland  33:27 Thank you. And so I just played the game with my wife this morning. And then some guys at work. We went to lunch today if you win the $1.9 billion lottery tonight. What’s what’s the first two or three things you would do? Wendy Swire  33:40 Oh, I love that question. I’m gonna give I look I have a really lucky life, what’s the first couple things I’m doing? I’m gonna give a heck of a lot of it away and I’m gonna start a foundation, for sure. What am I going to do? I’m probably going to buy a really nice house on the lake for my husband. Adirondacks. And I’m going to buy him a beautiful sailboat and kayak. I’ll probably do so I’m probably going to do some stuff to like spoil. spoil my loved ones, but I do so my husband is great. I’d probably–– Brett Gilliland  34:06 It’s a lot of fun though, isn’t it? I mean, the thing about okay, I said today a little bit larger. So I think I’m gonna take 100 million and I’m gonna go I’m gonna pay everybody’s house off in the firm. And I’m gonna better be careful this now right I’m gonna hear all this and it’s on record. We’re gonna pay everybody’s house on the firm off pay all my family’s houses off. And, and then, you know, give a ton of it away, go buy a house, the beach house in Watercolored, Florida. Wendy Swire  34:32 Oh, I’m getting a house for those listeners up in the Adirondacks. Brett Gilliland  34:36 Like, like, if I steal your cell phone from you, what’s the one thing that I cannot delete the you need to continue the life that you’re living right now? Wendy Swire  34:46 Oh gosh, my virtual admins. Nation. Shout out to Katie. What do I need? I need my calendar. I do need my emails, I probably well for productivity I need those things, I think for just pure joy and to make sure I get all of that gratitude is old photos. Brett Gilliland  35:06 Yeah, I’m a big photo person myself. And what is it you wish you had more time to do but right now in the season of life you’re in, there’s just not enough hours in the day? Wendy Swire  35:16 Oh gosh, I love I love to move. I’d love to to spend a little bit more time I haven’t ever ever worked out but there’s always more you can add if you had more time. And I’m an avid, avid avid reader, and there’s just way too many books. I probably have 10 books. I read multiple books at a time. I probably have 10 there. I would just I spent a lot of time reading so I can never ever not read. I would do more of that. Brett Gilliland  35:39 I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much. Wendy Sherwin Swire, we will send people your way. I know you’ve also set up a link. I think I have to get glasses here, but it’s the Swiresolutions.com/circuit-of-success-podcast/ again. So yeah, put that in the show links. So thanks so much for setting that up. And we’ll send people there. Where else can our listeners find more of you?  Wendy Swire  36:04 Yeah, well, I would encourage Yeah, this is a special page we created for listeners of Brett show. It’s HTTPS/swiresolutions.com/circuit-of-success-podcast. So there I have some questions and things just for podcast listeners. But you can always go to Swiresolutions.com and awesome. Thank you so much. Wow, what fun! Felt like two minutes. It was great. Brett Gilliland  36:28 Great conversation. Appreciate you being on the show, Wendy. And if you have anything in the future, please let us know. Wendy Swire  36:34 Thank you. Thank you to all the listeners. It was a real privilege.

Chuck Hogan is the managing partner at Your Best Life, an organization helping people to elevate finance, family, fitness, and faith to maximize their best life through mentor strategizing, community and exclusive once in a lifetime experiences. Hogan’s unique background of sales, business, and relationship building gives him a rare perspective that enables him to successfully guide entrepreneurs, CEOs, and other top executives to new heights. EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION Brett Gilliland  00:02 Welcome to The Circuit of Success. I am your host Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got Chuck Hogan, Chuck how you doing, man?  Chuck Hogan  00:08 Wonderful brother. Great to be here today.  Brett Gilliland  00:09 Great to have you. How’s beautiful Dallas, Texas?  Chuck Hogan  00:12 It is absolutely gorgeous. It is, I mean, it looked–– fall setting in.  Brett Gilliland  00:16 It is! Chuck Hogan  00:17 High 50s, low 70s and it is freakishly gorgeous out.  Brett Gilliland  00:21 That’s awesome. So I’ll tell you good unseasonally warm I think here, for you know, today is Halloween day as we’re recording this and it’s, you know, it’s like almost 60 degrees. That’s good here in St. Louis. We’ll take it.  Chuck Hogan  00:33 Hey, if snow’s the alternative. Yes, the answer is yes.  Brett Gilliland  00:37 That’s right. That’s right. I’ve tried to think Dallas, was it two forks and a knife or two? What’s the name of the steakhouse there? I’ve been there a few times.  Chuck Hogan  00:46 Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Two Forks is a big one. If you’re in the barbecue that Hard 8 the feast, too I mean, seriously, if cattle is your game, then Dallas but again, St. Louis barbecue is ––  Brett Gilliland  00:59 So absolutely.  Chuck Hogan  01:00 You just say I’ll send you some of mine. If you’ll send me some of yours.  Brett Gilliland  01:04 All right, we’ll get on that man! So, well Chuck, you are the managing partner at Your Best Life. It’s an organization helping people elevate, which I love right here: finance, family, fitness, and faith before we started recording you and I we’re talking about our F’s, mine’s F to the fifth power, your faith, your family, your fitness, your fun, and your firm, which for me is work. But you and that’s what you do. So to maximize the best life through mentoring strategies, community exclusive, once in a lifetime experiences which I’m some sure we’ll get into. You’ve got a unique background: sales and business and relationship building, gives you a huge perspective on working with folks. So excited to dive into that today. But if you could Chuck, just maybe give us a little lay of the land and what’s made you the man you are today?  Chuck Hogan  01:47 Sure. You know, quite frankly, about 30 years ago, I decided that I’ve always been kind of a study of human behavior. But 22 years ago, when my wife and I found out, she was having our first child, I was like, Whoa, where’s the instruction manual?  And I was like, Okay, I better get my act in gear and business had already been propagating successfully. But to be honest with you, Brett, I was like going, oh, you know how to be a better man. And it started really coming down to understanding why I do what I do. What moves me. And I realized that I had been filled through my out my childhood. I’m the son of a military family. So yes, 30 years in the Navy. I’m from Japan. Originally, my mom’s Japanese. My dad’s Irish. When I say Japanese and Irish. I’m talking 85 pounds or 11 and a half, portable. And then a redhead, blue-eyed Irish dad. I mean, so the real deal, the real deal. I mean, when you go melting pot, you’re like, the answer is yes. And so you asked and so I’ll just give it to you straight. I was very confused kid. Back in the 60s, lots of socio economic, I’ll say variances, but more so I’ll say racial barriers and living in Maine as a kid coming over from Japan. Charles Francis Hogan, a second named after my Irish grandfather, not looking very Irish. And in Japan, I’m half Japanese. So I’m not full Japanese. So I kind of felt like a kid without a country. So moving forward to when Cole, my son was born. I was like, man, there’s this guy named Tony Robbins. So I started spending some time with him and actually was involved with his environment for over 22 years. Just recently now it was a senior trainer, volunteer trainer I should clarify volunteer trainer for Mr. Robbins and what was cool about that is I got to see a lot of different parts of life but the same the same strategy kept playing out I see people going, “oh you know if I just learn one more thing I learned another way to make money or learn another tax strategy and other tax hedge” I go “okay, so you’ve got more money. What do you do with it?” They go, “I’m still not happy.” Brett Gilliland  02:02 Yeah.  Chuck Hogan  03:56 And so I’ve met DECA incentive millionaires. I’ve met billionaires. Some of them are elated because they they’re living that life of contribution now and they knew how to give back. And God bless you and your wife, Julie, for doing what you do for cancer research and helping support families as a cancer conquerer myself, in ’09, that we’re talking about and experiencing it are very different things. And so my heart goes out to you and your lovely wife. My wife’s name is Julie, by the way as well.  Brett Gilliland  04:24 Ah, there you go. Chuck Hogan  04:25 Hey, yeah, we married right, brother. I got the memo. That’s right. So quite frankly, your best life and the way I live my life is by a very simple tenant, you can be doing your best but not being your best. I choose to be my best. So every day I’ll do my best. And kind of a family motto and that’s it’s so simple, but living in you. Trusting in you, being you, delivers more of you. And that means exercising and prioritizing things like self care, eating healthy, working out, maintaining your health and vitality. Because if you don’t have the oxygen mask on you first you’re no good to anybody. Brett Gilliland  05:03 Yeah, I love that. And so when I when I read that earlier, so let’s dive more into that statement you just made as you can do your best, and not be your best. Talk to me about that.  Chuck Hogan  05:14 Sure. So oftentimes, we’ll even ask people, and it’s a subconscious way of communicating. I’ve been certified in neurolinguistics programming and neurosis, conditioning, hypnotherapy for the better part of 20 years now. And what I can tell you is language patterns make a big difference. So when you ask someone how they’re doing, it’s a cognitive question. It’s a cognitive ask, you’re asking someone how they do. And so they go into process. Oh, how I do Oh, man, I’m busy. I’m busier than a one on wallpaper hanger. I got all kinds of things and stuff. I mean, my wife has a nickname for me on the weekends. And that’s Manny Laborie for manual labor, because I know what the honey do list is not going anywhere. So part of this is is that how do we clearly identify how we’re being because a call your life is how you feel? So if I asked you instead, and I got Brett, how are you feeling? You go, I’m grateful. I’m blessed. I’m happy. I’m elated. I’m contributory. I feel valued. So yes. And I have a very fundamental belief. I’m a very simple guy. I’ve really also migrated towards reducing all the waste, if you will. Or I’ll just say simplifying. My wife calls it drama reduction. And I go Yes. With three tweens. And in, you know, the proximity to in college and one at home still. Yes, sir. And so what I realized was, is that at our core, we’re all three years old still. We are when you’re three, you really only have three responses. Happy, sad, or okay. You start getting into school, and then you start going, Oh, I’m elated. I’m overjoyed. Oh, you know, I’m, I’m excited mom and dad is like, okay, great. And when you’re excited, does that make you feel happy? Yeah, when someone tells me oh, you know, if I felt more like a philanthropist, if I felt more contributory if I didn’t feel marginalized, like Okay, great. When you do feel marginalized, how’s that make you feel? Sad. Oh, but normally find these wonderful adjectives to go ahead and start to create layers of, you know, say balance I go. At the end of the day, your three, happy sad or okay.  Brett Gilliland  07:09 And that’s okay.  Chuck Hogan  07:10 Yeah, and the worst thing is living in, is okay. Because that’s survival. That’s, that is the you can’t measure what doesn’t move. And so when people I’m okay, and I go, okay, so you’re getting by they go, yes. Oh, you’re doing your best. Ah, okay. And I swear, realizing there’s a lot of people we’re living in this marginalized sense of well being, which is getting by, doing your best. There’s no thrive in their ideology. There’s no expansion. So if the premise holds true, and we say progress equals happiness, which I do believe that that’s any progress a millimeter or a mile. Of course, we’re shooting for the mob, but that millimeter could have been the deciding factor. That was the spark that was the you know, jump off point. I go, okay, cool. So a millimeter or a mile progress equals happiness, what feeds progress? When I got this, shifted everything. Brett Gilliland  08:04 And so I hear you say that about the feeling part. I wrote that down, as you know, more asking people how you feel versus how you’re doing. I love that. But at the same time, Travis Thomas, who’s the performance coach for the men’s national team for getting ready for the World Cup? Yep, he was on a couple of weeks ago, and he talked about feelings aren’t an indicator of performance. And what he meant by that was, if I ask you how you’re feeling fired up, you know, I’m, I’m great. I’m gonna go out and score this goal, or I’m gonna do that. I mean, it doesn’t really matter what you feel right. But I think it’s a difference when we’re going out to perform in a soccer field or in a business meeting. Yeah, it surely matters. But that’s just how I’m feeling.  Chuck Hogan  08:42 Yeah, but that’s where standards shift. So I’ll put it a different way. Well, let’s test the theory. Okay, so you’re driving in your car. And all of a sudden, someone cuts you off. I mean, like, they just rip across from the inside lane all the way in, they exit the off ramp, and they literally almost clip your car.  Brett Gilliland  09:00 Yep.  Chuck Hogan  09:00 And people go, Oh, that jerk that moron and I go, Oh, wait, wait, wait. So you had a feeling? See? Here’s the difference. Feelings always come first. Yeah, they do. You think about it afterwards. Because if I say that was a father whose son was hit by a car, he realized that’s the only exit he can take to get him to the emergency room to save his life. They go, Oh, my gosh, is he all right? Wait a second. The second ago, he was a jerk. So the mind distorts delete and generalizes information is the only way you survive, because you have billions of terabytes of data that are flowing through you at any second. And they go oh, that’s baloney. I said really? What are you hearing right now? What do you feel on your skin where focus goes energy flows. So if all of a sudden we change where the focus flows, you change the entire experience. I said, Okay, wait. So how do you feel about that? So there are some guiding principles, and I agree with what this coach says. But the truth is you are how you feel. Because here’s the deal. We were told as children, you can do anything you put your mind to. Not true. Because your mind doesn’t know what’s real or perceived. And on the other side, where focus goes, energy flows. So if I were to say you, Brett, as you look around that beautiful studio, I don’t want you to look for anything that’s brown. In fact, I want you to ignore the brown, as you look around, don’t look for the brown. In fact, I know you’re an achiever. So you’ll make bay stuff brown too. Now, if I ask you to close your eyes, I said, Tell me everything that’s blue. You may be able to guess at one or two things, but you will not be able to say with certainty what they were why? Because your focus was against going towards something I asked you not to look for them to do. Yeah. So when people are trying to move away from things, that’s why if you’re trying to move away from problems, you get more problems. So the focus should be the antithesis, which is prosperity, opportunities, what feeds progress is possibilities. Some people might call that compelling future. Brett Gilliland  11:02 Yeah I was just gonna say, so how do we do that? Notice, right, so how do I focus on that and you said to your compelling future, you can see this f greater than p, this is your future greater than your past. That’s our firm’s mission, it’s my mission, it is to help people achieve a future greater than your past. And so when you hear that, and based on everything, you just saying, how do you slow down enough to do that, though, when maybe you don’t want to or it’s a bad crappy day out, you’re in the dumps? How do we do that?  Chuck Hogan  11:29 So there’s a couple of ways. First thing is, is that anytime we change any one of these three, I’ll say, aspects of a behavior. And I’m going to borrow just from behavioral sciences for a moment, it’s called the triad you have physiology, focus, and language. So there’s a rule with this physiology first. So one of the things that people do is they’ll get up and start moving their body. In fact, some of the most productive business people cannot sit at a desk and have a conversation. They can’t they have to be moving around. These are the people that put the wear patterns in their area rugs around their conference table. Why? Because it seems like they’re running laps, but they are engaged and in a state of productivity. Motion creates emotion. If we want to test the theory, you’ve been doing this, since you were a child, before you could speak, you would have a physiological response. If you are hungry, you wet yourself or you were tired. What would that be? Well, if you were happy, you smile. If you were sad, you might have pounded and cried. And if you were okay, you just sat there staring off into deep space, waiting for one of those other things to happen. Now, why is this important to note? Well, unconsciously, we are conditioned from the time that we’re zero to seven years old, as to what our I’ll just say “value systems” are, we inherited them from the environments that we were raised in. So anything that we heard loud noises, flashes, things, there are people who go back into childhood regression, and are going where did you become so sensitive to light or loud noises? And they’re going, Oh, you know, I don’t know. And then they go back and they go, Oh, my gosh, I heard these things. How old were you? I think I was 18 months old. Wait, what? But it’s in your unconscious? It’s throughout you the cognitive mind. Again, because it distorts elite and generalizes information will selectively get rid of things. So to your point, how do we get back to center two ways real easy. In fact, Navy SEALs do this. And those that are trained in elite, stressful exercises, they actually will do what they call box breathing. Yeah, two to one breathing. So box breathing is inhale for four, hold for four, exhale for four, and hold for four. And they’ll do cycles of this. And what they started finding was their heart rate slows down, the EKG and the EEG of the brain, the waveform of the brain and the heart, actually go into sinus rhythm together. So the coolest thing when we slow down, the tendency in the human condition is though, when things happen, we speed up, we put our foot all the way down on the gas pedal like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, if you’re on a windy road that you’ve never driven on before, and it’s foggy, you don’t push down on the on the gas pedal, foot off the gas pedal and you become more acutely aware by doing what slowing down doesn’t mean stopping doesn’t mean retarding your growth and moving backwards. It means you slow down because all pain that we affiliate to is we’re in the past, all of it. All fears in the future. What’s coming up ahead. Where’s the connection? Love contribution. Now, favorite quote from an unbelievable philosopher. “Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. So be grateful for today because it’s a gift called the present.” I will quote this great philosopher, Master Oogway, Kung Fu Panda. Brett Gilliland  14:54 That’s right. That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. So I mean, are you, you or your clients, whoever that may be, are you like I use a journal, I use a black journal. I’m constantly in my journals writing down and dreaming, strategizing and stuff. So is that a process that you use to go through that?  Chuck Hogan  15:11 Every day? In fact, there’s a simple two and a half minute process that I love going through with clients. Because what we started noticing was, is that most people account for their finances. Most people do not account for their time. Yeah, in fact, most people throw away time. And they wonder why they don’t have enough net time to be able to accomplish the things that they aspire to achieve. And I go, Okay, well, tell me, where are you investing your time? And they go, oh, man, you know, I have a couple calls today. Okay, well, how much time you have blocked out, they go, Oh, I’ve got our, I’ve got an hour. I was like, well, whoa, it takes an hour for you to have a phone conversation. They go, Oh, no, that was only five minutes. And I go, what do you do for the other 55 minutes. They don’t account for their time, they just throw it away. And here’s the interesting part. And I’m sure Brett, you hear this all the time. And that is fill your mind with resourceful and nourishing information. Because the way that the brain functions is it doesn’t forget anything that it hears, the difference is is whether your cognitive and you’ve actually decided this is worthwhile data. So people go to an event or go to a seminar. In fact, they’ll even go to become coaches, you know, they go, I’m going to be a coach. That’s awesome. Good for you. Then they go, Yeah, man. And after this weekend, I’m going to be certified as a life coach. And I’m like, okay, they go, you don’t seem like convinced. I said, Well, I’m not like, Well, dude, you’re you’re just you’re just jelly. You’re jealous. And I go, Sure. That’s it. And they go, Okay, wait, I know, you too. Well, Chuck, what what? What’s your take? I said, Well, let me ask you something. If you went to flight training for three days, never flown a plane before. And you’re gonna go ahead and tell me that you’re going to learn enough in three days, where you could not only fly, you’d be willing to take your entire flammer family up in a plane solo, and then mirror and teach your wife and your kids how to fly this plane. That’s what you’re telling me after three days that you have the aptitude, the skill, set, the experience, the knowledge, the saturation, I said, you have a marinated enough in this, you have a limited amount of knowledge. And based on your current life conditions, you’re making a decision. And so would you do this with like, going into an investment and spending all your life savings, your kids college fund? And they go Oh, heck no. Is it? Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, but you’re willing to go out and take on the title of someone who’s a mentor, a coach, and treat, teach other people. I said, Okay, great. Um, you’re on your third marriage, you gotta teach them about marital status. Give it a fruitful relationship. You’re estranged from your kids, you’re gonna teach them about child rearing? How many successful businesses if you run? Can you go ahead and tell me about vertical integrated marketplaces and supply chain management and, and what C suites levels are looking for? Can you tell me about the sales and marketing of your bid? And then I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, dude dude dude. I’m just a coach. I go, Whoa, that’s why I prefer to mentor strategist. Like, within organization, you have to have lived the lifestyle man, you have to have to like–– Brett Gilliland  18:13 You have to have the street cred, right? I mean, it’s I’ve been doing this for two decades. And I know more about this stuff than anybody can learn in a three day workshop to try to go be this life coach. And that stuff drives me nuts. And so but I think there is something on a different topic for that is, is the how do you get that out, though? Right. So how do you get that life experience out of our brains?  Chuck Hogan  18:37 Yes.  Brett Gilliland  18:37 And to the people that need to hear it? And how do we help them make an impact? There’s people driving right now that are stuck someplace, right? And whether they want to admit it or not, they’re miserable. I know, for me, I was stuck for a while. And like you made this comment earlier as my income was going like that. Yep, my job satisfaction was going on. And I took a massive risk to leave and start a firm and but I don’t think everybody’s going to do that. Right. And nor should maybe everybody do that. So how do you get unstuck, if you will, and try to turn that trajectory around to have more joy and laughter in life versus maybe pain and anger in life?  Chuck Hogan  19:13 Well, and you hit the nail on the head, your your beautiful segue, well, you’re just letting these things out, man, I love, again, Sage experience and wisdom. So part of this is, is that people will do more to avoid pain than they’ll do to give themselves pleasure. And so there’s a difference between what I’ll say our natural skill sets are and our adaptive skill sets. So folks have been educated through schooling and modern education. Now, what is your ranking in school? What is your pedigree? Where do you stand in your class? And it’s like, oh, and then What school did you go to? Are you from an Ivy League school and all of a sudden it’s like, Whoa, that makes a difference. Or did you go to Eastern Illinois University or Northwestern did you go to the–– Brett Gilliland  19:55 Ivy is the Harvard of the Midwest, just so you know, Eastern Illinois University. 20:00 No, Chuck Hogan  20:00 No, no, no, I’m with you. And the deal is, is that it’s, the answer is yes. That education is education. And what happens is, is that how is it exercised? So to your point sharing is caring. There are a lot of people that have shelf health knowledge. They have books and books and books, they’ve been to seminars, they’ve been at courses, and they haven’t gone back into any of that data. And furthermore, it’s kind of like having a home gym. If your apparatus is used for hanging clothes on.  Brett Gilliland  20:29 Yeah. Chuck Hogan  20:30 Then it’s being misused. Why do I say this? Because the equipment was made for a purpose, but it’s being used for other alternatives. And they go, Oh, no, it’s yes, and I go, Oh, so you’re on the treadmill while your clothes are hanging off the drying? I don’t think so. Because at least the way I run, there’s no way that clothes could hang on that treadmill.  Brett Gilliland  20:49 Right. Chuck Hogan  20:50 Why do I say this? It’s only functional if you use it, apply it. And it doesn’t mean that you’re proficient with it. The first time you play tennis, you don’t pick up the rack go. Oh, yeah. Beonborg. Jimmy McEnroe? You know? Nadel? No, the answer is no. It’s like, oh, my gosh, that was a whoopin. One set like, cook me. And it’s like, okay, great, or golf, for that matter. I go, I love what Robin Williams say, he goes, Hey, you know what we’re going to do? We’re going to put a whole tooth, 200 yards away. And we’re going to make you walk it. And every time you hit it, you think you’re having a stroke. And so why do I share this with the ordinary things done consistently produce extraordinary results. But we got to move away from thinking that if we put our mind to it, we can achieve it. It’s what you put your heart to. It’s what you decide has enough value to you that it aligns with your morals, your rules and your outcomes. And I’m not talking about goals. Here’s the fallacy. Most people will prognosticate goals that aren’t even theirs. They’re not even there’s Oh, well, we should have a 200% increase in revenue this year. And my god, based on what? They go oh, well, last year, we had 100% revenue growth and I go yes. What do you attribute that to? We got lucky on two big orders? I go. Okay, are those orders coming in this year? Can you count? No, but dude, I am hoping that we’re gonna get some more big orders. I go, are you marketing towards that? And not really. Hopium is the biggest addictive drug way more than sugar. People hoping that prosperity is going to fall into their lap. I go, hoping to win the lotto they go, that would be awesome. Did you buy tickets? Nope. You’re hoping someone’s gonna give you one of those too? If you’re not an active participant, your own salvation, you need to slow down and reevaluate what matters most to you in life. And feeling way more than things and stuff come and go. You and I experienced this as parents. Brett, how many times did your kids have a want?  Brett Gilliland  22:57 Yeah, a lot.  Chuck Hogan  22:58 Yeah. But that doesn’t mean that their needs were being ignored? Yeah. Did they ever go without shoes, clothing, food, water, you know, athletic equipment, academic, you know, utensils, books? No, they had everything they needed. What they want is different. You’re like, Oh, these Air Jordans are dead. My life would be brilliant, you know, if you like, going at $300 and they’re custom painted by LeBron, you know? Or, or, you know, Michael, like, yeah, they should be enshrine, not on your feet.  Brett Gilliland  23:32 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So what what what are you finding the people that you work with? And these are just the people that are the top of their game, no matter what industry that is, what let’s talk about daily choices. I think those are huge, right? Like, for me, one of the big one is foods. I just got done with lunch. I went there. Yeah, like I like french fries, you know, but today I chose the salad.  Chuck Hogan  23:56 Yep.  Brett Gilliland  23:57 And so But while that sounds easy to people that may or may not have that problem, it is not easy for some people. And it’s not easy maybe to get up at six o’clock and workout or do this or do that. So what are you finding the no-miss items are either for yourself, or the ones that you work with, or the best of their game?  Chuck Hogan  24:14 Three things, three things. And it centers around body, mind and spirit. What I started noticing was is that most people did not budget for themselves out of 24 hours. So here’s the one thing that’s a constant burn rate time. At midnight, a new day was born.  Brett Gilliland  24:34 Yep.  Chuck Hogan  24:35 You get to decide what you’re going to do with this 24 hours. So I started actually having clients color code their time. Anytime that is self care. That means sleeping, eating, showering, hygiene, any of that. That’s all in my coding purple time. Now, why is this important? Because self care is not selfish. It’s essential.  Brett Gilliland  24:57 Yeah.  Chuck Hogan  24:58 When you’re sleeping your brain is detoxifying. You’re actually eliminating waste out of your body that you don’t even realize. So why is this important? Because people get up exhausted and they go, Oh, you’re not sleeping well. So what’s troubling you because that means your unconscious mind is unsettled. So I figured out a way around this, I started urging clients I said, take two and a half minutes a day, it’s so fast and easy. So let’s start off in the morning, when you get up in the morning, as soon as your eyes open, you take a deep breath in your heart starts beating, thank the universe, because you get another day, you get another day, whatever your religious faith is, just know that the universe has your back. Because through the night, you unconsciously not consciously, your heart was beating, and you had an exchange of taking in oxygen out of the air, releasing carbon dioxide. And it’s like you’re alive, your alive.  Brett Gilliland  25:49 And you didn’t even know it.  Chuck Hogan  25:50 Didn’t didn’t elect it. So what if in the morning, you decided how you want to feel most often today? You just set it set the intention for the day, if that’s happy, sad, whatever. People who unintentionally picks that I go, there are some people who unconsciously pick sad, or they’ll pick the opposite which they’ll go, I just want to move away from pain and I go, okay, then what’s the opposite of that? Prosperity, opportunity, connection. Because here’s what I know. And this is factual. Five, there’s five human needs that are essential one air, you only got minutes without it. Two is water, you go days without it. Three is food, you’ll go weeks without it. Fourth is lodging. Why? Because if you have a place to lay your head at night, and you can actually detox and take care of yourself, home is where the heart is. And the last one is love and connection. Now there’s six essential human needs certainty. Some people call it security, or “the knowing” others, second is variety, what we call uncertainty, and there’s an old saying, the call your life is in direct proportion to the amount of uncertainty that you can comfortably live with. There is significance. Fourth is love and connection. And the last few are growth and contribution, which are more spiritual. But the reason why I share these is the only one that crosses over and both is love and connection, the human condition is, is that we have an absolute need to feel important, connected, and necessary. The challenge is, is that 90% of the people walking this planet are dissatisfied with themselves. And they judge themselves constantly. The reason why I went back in earlier in our conversation, most people are picking outcomes and goals. And they’re not even their own. And when they don’t meet them 100% The brain tells you 99.9% Really, dude, you didn’t have what it took to get it the point 1% and push it over the edge. You suck. Are you kidding me? Really, again, you always do this, you always fall short. we’re our own worst critics and we berate ourselves. So what happens with outcomes and goals, especially those that we don’t elect? We judge and then we try to back into an emotion of feeling and then we take mammoth action on it. And we wonder why there’s a gap here, which is called not fulfilling, frustration, aggravation, because our life conditions aren’t matching our expectations. And this isn’t even real. So what if, what if you threw all that away? And you just started with? How do I want to feel most often? Why? I want to feel happy contributory I want to feel loved. Okay, great. Why? Because that makes me happy. Awesome. Here’s the secret sauce. This allows you to hold on to anything. Anything that you hold valuable in near and dear. It’s all about a feeling or a why anything you do? Well, let’s go back to the soccer players. Why are they playing the game of soccer? They go Oh, because they get paid a lot of money. I said no, because they fell in love with a sport that fuels them that they are exceptional at. But here’s the difference. Mike Tyson said this and I love this. They asked him “Hey, Mike, how’s it feel to be the greatest of all time?” He goes, “I’m not the greatest of all time. Yeah, I’m not the greatest. I was a good boxer was a really good boxer.” And they go “Yeah, Mike, but like, You mean, like you and your prime?” He goes, “Yeah. I mean, I hurt people. I was really good at it. Gus saw that he started training me” and he goes, “You can be great. You can be great because I became great. But I wasn’t a good man. I was worth $500 million. And I wasn’t a good man.” He goes, “I’m a good man today.” He goes, “I’m worth maybe three $4 million. I’m a good man. I’m a good father, a good friend. Because I struggle everyday with good man. Those I didn’t have to struggle very hard to be a great boxer.” People can live in their talents. There’s a natural aptitude for it. And they living in that gift and then they get fostered through it. It’s like, oh, it’s so great. They’re so good to go. No. That’s why I have so much admiration for people who get out of like, very life altering conditions. So people go, Oh, you made it out of the hood. And I’m gonna go on oh my gosh, against all odds. And this person is now successful here like, why? Because their life conditions was not paralleled with their need their hunger, their desire, they go, I respect that every day and twice on Sundays. So to your point, when we move away from just the outcome, and we head in a direction, and here’s the beautiful part about direction, we even have a pointer finger before we go headed in the right direction. And I go, Okay, well, what happens? Because my mismatch, your brain sometimes goes, What if you’re heading the wrong direction I go, then yeah, of course, correct. You don’t have to go all the way back to the fork in the road and make a left at Alburquerque. Instead of a right. There’s this little thing called GPS. And now we have these maps. And this global positioning is like, you can actually figure out where the frick you are, and course correct from here now. And here’s the best part, all the experiences and the learnings and the lessons that you get from this, I found the best gas stations, you know, the cleanest restrooms and, and best taco stands and the bed and breakfast on these little outskirt roads I didn’t ever even know existed before. But there’s a challenge with this. And this goes to the heart of what you’re talking about with a soccer coach, we need to understand who we are. I’m a loving God, a gift from God, I have gifts and talents, I have a great sense of humor, I have a fast mind, I have the ability to speak and connect and communicate with people. I’m also really harsh on myself. So I’m going to move away from judging self, I’m going to be my best so I can do my best. I’m going to let go bereavement I’m going to let go of frustration and procrastination. Wow. Because now when I come up with this outcome and goal, it’s a full body experience, there is no gap. And then I can take mammoth action. So this fuels the opportunity of being able to have a very fulfilling lifestyle. But again, I’m going to go back, setting the inspiration or the incantation, the morning the intention for the day, whatever that might be. And here’s where it comes real. At the end of the day, just before you go to bed, you and take a minute and a half. So it was a minute the morning, maybe 30 seconds if you’re being you know, overtly conservative. A minute, a half a night USA, how do you feel most often today? Wow. What what happened that allowed me to feel this way? Well, yeah, I had some conflicts. We had some disagreements we had, you know, some some really challenging situations. But we got through it through clear, authentic communication by being honest by being present. The better part is how do I want to feel tomorrow. So before you go to bed, and you go into this unconsciousness, you actually set the intention. So you set that beacon at night before you go to bed. And as you close your eyes, you go to sleep you don’t wake up the next morning when you ask. So if I want to feel most often today, you can either affirm it, or you can shift it. The beautiful part is is that and now you’re beginning and ending your day purposefully. And it only takes moments. Brett Gilliland  32:58 I mean, 1,000% agree with that. I’ve been doing that for years. I think it’s how we go to bed at night matters. You know, are you just crashing? You know, finishing your soda and going to bed? Are you you know, are you staying healthy, do whatever you need to be doing. But I think that self talk at the end of the day. It’s critically important because again, we talked about this earlier, but once you expand on what you focus on expands, right. And if I’m focusing on being the best version of myself, I’m focusing on making an impact tomorrow. And then I wake up and say the same thing. That’s my choice. Every day is my choice, right to go out and do that. And I’m putting it out in the universe. It happens yeah. Chuck Hogan  33:38 Bear O’Brien said it. He goes that Today’s a gift Today’s a new day, how do I choose to spend it because it was blessed you with this 24 hours. And what I started realizing was is that most people devalue themselves to the point where everybody else is important. As parents, we live for our kids, we will sacrifice everything will move our schedules around, we’ll do what we get to do and need to do. And I go okay, so let’s look at that for a second. They go 20 out of 24 hours with 90 minutes a day was yours. unadulterated. Without any apology. It was yours. To feed your body, mind and spirit, I believe in a 3030 30 Move your body for 30 minutes, feed your mind for 30 minutes, feed your spirit for 30 minutes. So if that’s a meditation, if that’s in, you know, prayer, yoga, whatever the case might be for you to connect with self deeply and your Creator or the universe. Being the son of a Buddhist and a Roman Catholic. It was like, Okay, thank you God. And I’m gonna come back as a doorknob. You know, it’s like, what’s going on here? On the other side of it, I would said and this was probably my biggest life lesson about 20 years ago. I’m coming home from work, and I’m exhausted, and my wife is pregnant with our second child, and we have Cole and he’s a toddler too, and some change. And Julie just wants to talk. And I’m like, Baby, I love you. But I’ve been talking all day. Just concept like we have a word bank. And I was at a deficit like I’m, I’m in the red. I use, this was Monday, and I’d already used up the Thursdays, you know, number of languaging and words, right. And so we didn’t talk. And I could tell that she was growing more distant and aggravated. And as she’s getting bigger with Marina, and long story short, it hit me like a ton of bricks. And I said, Okay, why am I working so hard? You know, here, I’m going through all this self help stuff and trying to learn and I said, my family deserves the best of me and not what’s left of me. I’ll move heaven and earth, for every client, I will show up, I will be fully present. I will, you know, shut everything else out, blocked my calls, do what I go, but I don’t do that. And that went great for about nine months. Marina’s born, life is good. I’m the playful Daddy, I’m the one changing diapers at 2am, rocking the kids to sleep. But Julie rest, having great conversation, and I am whooped you know, get to one of my occupations at the time. And they’re like, you’re right. And I’m like, I’m great. What? That’s perfect. Yeah, life is great, man. I’m feeling you know, I was in adrenal fatigue, I didn’t even know it. Yeah, as I’m pulling into my driveway said, Thank you, universe, my family, and I deserve the best to me, and not what’s left of me. I have forgotten all my rituals, I have forgotten all the things that helped make me healthy and happy and full and whole. And so my family inadvertently was getting the adrenal push through best of me, but not the authentic, present, loving, guided daddy, and husband. And when I made that shift, Brett, oh, my gosh, it shifted everything. But it came from doing one thing slowing down. Anyone who knows me, I’m a high energy guy, when I’m on task, I’m in it to win it. But then I realized too, and I live with Simon Sinek says there is no such thing as winning. There isn’t. There’s finite or infinite mindset, finite mindset, you know, some of the players. In fact, actually, let me rephrase that finite player, finite ideology, you know, all the players in the game, all of them. In fact, you know, all the players in the game, and you know, the rules of the game. And when someone breaks the rules, they get penalized. Kind of like the bad referees. Whether or not you are engaged in that or not, doesn’t make a difference, other people’s judgement of you, and regulations and different things. But those are the rules that we that’s what we signed up for. Here’s the bigger part, the outcome is to win the game. So there’s only two possibilities. Actually, there’s three there’s Win, lose or draw. But for most people, if they draw, they think they’re losing, they don’t go winning, they are losing. So I love infinite mindset, which is, you know, some of the players, but you only know the players up to a point because as you’re growing and evolving, you’re actually inviting through resonance frequency and through education and momentum and growth, other people in your world. The second part is there aren’t any rules. There’s only value alignment. Which means Oh, belief systems. Gosh, he’s a really good guy. I liked this Brett. He’s an amazing guy. I met his wife. Oh my gosh, they run a nonprofit. Yeah. kindred spirits. It’s like I love this. But here’s the best part. The outcome of the game is to stay in it for as long as you can. To live a full and fruitful life. Wow. That means there’s more opportunities where every month everywhere and that life of prosperity, that simple, but most people’s mindsets, and this is where they get the disconnect. And this is where sports with all due respect to coaches, they’ve got it wrong. Because it’s such a conditioned environment. So it’s there aren’t exceptions. There’s rules. There’s roles and these are the rules. This is the protocol this what you Okay, okay, okay, okay. There’s different ways to score goals. Have you ever seen someone who’s in the game was having so much frickin fun? That they seem like they’re running circles around everyone else? And you’re going Dang, why is that kid smiling all the time? He just seems freakin happy he is because he’s playing the game. And yes, the outcome is to win but in his model the world he’s there to show up and have the best freakin time he can. Brett Gilliland  39:41 So I think he’s living in his he’s living in his value system right? I mean, that’s why you’re having fun and so it’s it’s this vicious cycle that just continues to run, run, run and no matter how many times we know what we need to do we know we need to exercise we know we need to drink a lot of water. We know we need to eat right? But it’s like the world we live in is so fast. To your point earlier. And I always say this too is we got to slow down to speed up. Is it without clarity, right? Whether it’s written down or not without clarity, it’s a confusing world Man is coming at you from every damn direction you can possibly think of. And so our clarity has to come from us writing it down, and the discipline to review it day in and day out and follow the plan long. You don’t want to.  Chuck Hogan  40:23 In time block.  Brett Gilliland  40:25 Yeah. I agree with that. I have my calendar right here, is color coordinated. Sure.  Chuck Hogan  40:29 Absolutely. And that’s one of the reasons why I started with this color coordination. In fact, I even took it into business and said, Okay, let’s look at it a different way. What if every engagement or there’s a commitment was read, it’s an opportunity, like you’re a bowl, and it’s a red flag, and you’re, you’re going for it? We’re all opportunities. And I said, but you’re not going to time block and 15 or 20 hour blocks, you can time block and 15 minute blocks. If you need an hour, and then you take for 15 minute blocks in your time together no big deal. But the outcome is to convert it to a shade of green. The green is is that oh I make connection with someone there a new client? Light green. Oh, I texted or emailed them. Like re made a phone call left a message like rate. Hey, we have an appointment next Thursday, medium green. Why? Because there’s a commitment. Now we’re an engagement. Hey, they’re a client. Now they signed on board dark green. Now if I started going through my calendar, I see a bunch of red in his squandered opportunity, and we didn’t do anything with that net time. Well, then shame on you. But if we’re converting, and we’re like, oh, yeah, that was a prospecting month. How do you know that? Because look at all the light green on my schedule, right? You know, and all of a sudden, now you have a gauge because again, you can’t change or move. What you don’t measure. If it’s not moving, you can’t measure it. So I go Okay, then let’s go ahead and be deliberate about what we’re looking for. Brett Gilliland  41:49 Being deliberate, man, you gotta be deliberate. And again, I keep saying this even on this interview today, but even when you don’t want to mean that that’s the key right showing up even when you don’t want to do it. So, Chuck, this has been awesome, man. And where do our listeners find more of Chuck Hogan?  Chuck Hogan  42:02 Oh, you know what? You can go it’s real simple. YBLnow.com Brett Gilliland  42:07 I YBLnow.com We’ll put that in the show notes.  Chuck Hogan  42:11 It’s for Your Best Life, we figure if you’re gonna live life live your best life you already in it. Yet so let’s get in it to win it and and to enjoy and to connect with other like minded lighthearted people. Brett Gilliland  42:23 Love it. We’ll put YBL on the on the show notes and we’ll send them your way man. And thanks so much for all the wisdom you shared with us today from Dallas, Texas brother.  Chuck Hogan  42:31 It’s a, I appreciate you, Brett, thank you very much.

“Power & Empower” is what Rebecca Kennedy stands for. Rebecca’s background in dance, gymnastics and track & field laid a foundation for movement, fitness and body awareness that she brings to every Tread class. As a former bootcamp instructor, NFL cheerleader, Nike master trainer and more, Rebecca aims to make every workout the best part of the day by celebrating movement and empowering others through positivity. EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION Brett Gilliland  0:01   Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland and today I’ve got Rebecca Kennedy on the show. What’s up, Rebecca? Rebecca Kennedy  0:09   Hi guys, what’s up? Brett Gilliland  0:10   How are you? Rebecca Kennedy  0:12   I am excellent. I’m so excited to be here with you guys today. Brett Gilliland  0:15   We’re excited to have you so you are the Peleton Master Instructor, you are a former NFL cheerleader, a US a gymnastics athlete, you are a dancer a celebrity trainer—oh, my goodness. You got a lot of stuff cooking.  Rebecca Kennedy  0:31   Yeah, I dabble in a few things here and there… definitely has been a full fun experience in the fitness industry over, over the last decade so far. Brett Gilliland  0:43   Absolutely. Well, you get the benefit of getting to workout for a living. So that’s pretty nice. And some of us have to, you know, get up early in the morning or we got to do it at night. Or if you’re like me I showed you earlier on the on the video. My Peloton sits in the corner of my office. We got to get our work in. But tell us for those of the people that maybe don’t have a Peloton out there, people that are around me all the time. They’re like, “Oh, here he goes again. He’s gonna talk about the peloton.” But it is a game changer. Tell us why your experience, why you think it is a game changer. Rebecca Kennedy  1:13   Yeah, I mean, gosh, there’s just been so many hurdles for people to kind of obstacle their way over and find excuses not to bring fitness into their daily life. And in all honesty, it depends on where you live, I think we figured out a way to help people find fitness in their daily routine, whether it’s for five minutes or for an hour, there’s a way for you to be part of not just like your own fitness journey, but be part of a bigger community too. So you get to meet like minded people you have we figured out like the coaching. So I know being in the gym for so many years, I just saw I felt the pain of of those coming in and not knowing what to do. And not having a trainer or not wanting to join a class. And maybe the time didn’t work out maybe a gym was too far away, like I know, I talk to so many new moms and dads that just like can’t leave the house for like, you know, logistically to get a babysitter for you to like go to the gym for an hour. Like it’s it’s pretty tough. So I think we really figured out a way to bring the the spirit of group fitness and personal training into the into your home. Just you know, you said it yourself. Like if you’re going to stare at your bike every day, right? You’re trying to everyday you’re going to use it. Brett Gilliland  2:35   Yeah. And I mean, just the equipment, just the physical aspect of it is amazing. I mean, it is the best stuff. You know, I’ve got another bike and treadmill and stuff like that at home. But nothing compares to that and and the nice screen and all this stuff I could go on and on. But I think people listen to the show. Obviously, fitness is usually a priority for most people. And it’s really become a big priority of mine for the last year. But I’ve had to make it that way. And I will tell you that as a guy, I’m now 41 who thankfully had good genes and stayed skinny, but I’ve not been a normal workout person, right? So I’ll do stuff here and there. I stay active with kids, I play basketball, I do those things. But, for me the peloton whether it’s right here on the app, or if it’s on the bike, or if it’s on the treadmill, or I can go outside and listen to you guys and tell us what to do when we’re running. Or if I’m walking the dog here walk this way, you know, take so much of the emotion and the difficulty out of working out. Rebecca Kennedy  3:31   Yeah, no, I mean, like having a friend there especially like connecting with, there’s so many different trainers and instructors on the app that everyone will find someone that they really, really connect with. And you know, we all have our favorites. And I think it’s helpful to have that familiarity and that camaraderie between just the people that are on the app and you meet each other and then having that person in your ear giving you the motivation. So even if you don’t own a piece of hardware, which I also go on about that. I mean, gosh, I’ve taught on treadmills for so many years, and the wear and tear that it can put on your body with if you’re not running on something that’s like, like the peloton, right? Your joints are just like, getting beat over and over. But I mean, from the bike and it’s so silent and smooth and really comfortable. And then the tread the slap belt. It’s like if you haven’t run on one before I can’t wait for your back the first time you do it. I mean it’s like driving a Ferrari I mean the speed and incline knobs they roll so you don’t have to there’s no buttons that you’re typing in anything. It’s not you kind of take the cumbersomeness  of a regular treadmill out of it. Brett Gilliland  4:44   So you don’t have to kill yourself to raise your score. Rebecca Kennedy  4:49   Yeah, no kidding. It’s just right there for you. You know. Brett Gilliland  4:53   That’s awesome. Well, tell us about what you know what before we move off of that everybody always ask us when you say some about Peloton The question is always “Oh, who’s your favorite instructor?” Right? Yeah, we got to ask you if you can’t work out with yourself, Rebecca, on the Peloton app, who are you working out with? Maybe you can’t say you don’t want to make any of your friends mad, but… Rebecca Kennedy  5:13   No, they’ll, they’ll, I mean, everyone has their favorites. And I think just like you have your favorites, too. I love everyone for a different reason. But I’m a huge Hip Hop junkie. So if I’m on the bike, I’m obsessed with Alex Tucsonans Hip Hop rides. If I’m taking a yoga class, I absolutely adore Ross Rayburn. I love running with Vex Gentry. I stressed Andy spear just as a fun fact. Before he was an instructor with me on Peloton. Back in the day, he was my personal trainer.  Brett Gilliland  5:50    Oh, no way.  Rebecca Kennedy  5:51   Yeah. So I love I love working out with Andy. I mean, you said you meditate yourself. So I’m using the app Aditi has like, I see her regularly. I’m like, Is it weird that I you’re avoiding? This is like the last thing I hear before I go to bed every night. Brett Gilliland  6:10   I fall asleep to you every night and you just don’t know it. Well, that’s awesome. So give us a little background maybe if you can, what what helped maybe from your upbringing or college, whatever it may be. What’s really kind of helped you become the woman you are today? Rebecca Kennedy  6:27    Um, I partly I think it’s just in my DNA. Like, you know, I, I grew up in a in a home that we were pretty active. My dad is very, very active. But my mom, this is back—I’m going to date myself a little bit. There was a lot of aerobics on TV that you could… Okay, yeah. So I saw my mom doing all those classes, because she had four kids at home. So she would she would pop in Gilad, and do that, you know, step aerobics, and then I would mimic that I was put into gymnastics and dance at age three. And I loved it. Because I started walking at 10 months, I was crawling and everything I was just, I couldn’t be stopped. I love, love, love movement. So much. And my mom was like, well, we need to put this energy into something. So she put me into sports. So I ended up I don’t really think the nutrition part of it and lifestyle part really, I don’t think I understood what, what I was doing until I was actually in college. But growing up, I was in school all day. And then I would be in dance and gymnastics until high school. And then I had to decide kind of which one I wanted to you know, sports are very demanding on your time and every coach wants you they are full force. So I chose to really dive deep into gymnastics because I was excelling there. And I thought that it was a really—I love a challenge. I think it’s just part of my, my spirit. And it was one of the most rewarding sports because every single day that you show up to practice you had to figure out something new about yourself and figure a way to learn something new get stronger, physically get stronger, mentally, you know, sports, especially gymnastics, where there’s like a constant level of fear playing, you’re, you’re really working with a mental, like a mental challenge there. So yeah, I mean, being an athlete my whole life and then getting into college, I was going pre law. I loved I believe in like fairness and equality. And I, I was interning at a law office in high school for a couple years. And having seen, you know, lawyers in my face and what their lives were like on a daily basis, they just kept telling me, pulling me aside like quietly and they’d say, like, “Don’t do this.” You know, follow don’t follow this. Like you’re a pretty happy person, like you don’t want to have just be like reading all the time. And I’m like, I love to read but I’m glad that I had that dose of reality and I missed moving my body and moving for a living when I got to school, so I had to make that that change. After my freshman year I decided that I was not going to go into law. I would change my major and go into dance again. And forge that river see what that held for me. So it’s a brought me to New York. I got my bachelor’s degree in dance. I got picked up by for an internship with Alvin Ailey and Broadway Dance Center. And that kind of kicked off like my fitness career in New York.  Brett Gilliland  9:59   Okay, so I mean, that really becomes a personal brand, right? I mean, it’s your dancing. And there’s, you know, there’s I don’t want to say on every street corner, but there’s a lot of trainers. And so to get to the level that you’ve gotten to, you know, with through through Nike through Peloton through whatever it may be. There’s a lot of people out there, right. So what do you think it was about you that helped you in that journey, if you will, or that grind? That helped me get to where you’re at today? Rebecca Kennedy  10:27   So, well, Brett, I mean, it’s, I feel like it’s a timing thing, because I started training in New York, when there was, I’m not going to put it all in time. Definitely, well, there’s a couple of different things. But I started big box gyms. And I was just meant, like, I had a couple mentors that really helped put me into the positions to succeed. I heard I caught wind, after having got like, a year or two deep into training at a gym, I reached out to another company, and they introduced me to like corporate fitness. So I was working with people that were at desks all day, and then we’d go into like a huge conference room, and workout, you know, I lead classes there. And I just got to see what people were needing. And I think that why me, a lot of trainers, what I see now versus that or not, then but myself is that it’s I don’t care about, I don’t want to say I don’t care about me, but I really care deeply about, about my clients and about people in general. And I want them to feel the love for movement and how it makes their body feel and how that changes their relationship with themselves and their confidence and it bleeds into every area of their life. And so I know that that passion is inherent to me. And I think it’s a gift and I want to be able to share it with people. But timing like the the boom of the fitness industry in the boutique fitness industry, you had like, gosh, Barry’s boot camp was popping up SoulCycle was popping up, then then came like, you know, all the different ones that there’s just too many to even to name at this point right now. Right. But I got in, in the first year when they started and I just I walked right in, I took one class and I was like, yep, this is what I want to do. I’ve been I was uh I used to YouTube, Barry’s Bootcamp classes on the treadmill at the big box gym that I was teaching at, just because I love to be the group fitness aspect. And I love the the intensity of it. So I walked up to the owner. And I was like, Hi, I’m Rebecca, and I want to work here. Brett Gilliland  12:51   So let’s spend time on that right there. Because you said, you know, again, it’s not about just timing. It takes courage to walk up to a person and say, “Hi, I’m Rebecca, I want to work here. And oh, by the way, I am going to work here.” So talk to us about that and before you do that, you know, the circuits of success, we talk about attitude, we talk about your belief system, we talk about taking action, and then ultimately that gets you results. Right, those are the circuits. Right. And so that took a belief system in yourself. But it also took action to shake that hand. So tell me more about that. Rebecca Kennedy  13:23   Yeah, well, so my mom has this theory growing up, she was like, if anything makes you feel nervous or slightly uncomfortable, you have to go address it immediately, like get the nervousness out of the way. And so I did just that, like if I sit on anything, and it’ll just it I won’t do it. So I have to make it happen. Like right away. I love my mom for like teaching me that but it you know, it kind of came from the, the confidence that I had in myself, it came from every single moment in my sport career to then… I’m gonna I think it’s my parents really helped me instill a lot of confidence in my in myself. But I knew what I wanted also. So I think it’s it’s not just finding that confidence within you. But it’s like knowing that you’re meant to do this, and that you’re willing to add value and know why. It’s not just because you desperately wanted to do it. It’s because I knew that I could do what they were doing and I would add something different and unique to it and that they would be grateful that I came to them. Brett Gilliland  14:38   Yep. So I love that. And I what I hear in that is I hear passion. But I also hear and have a question about thinking so somebody just asked me this the other day they’re like “Did you know you’d be successful growing up and I’m like, or did you know what you want to do when you when you’re gonna grow up?” And I said no, I had no idea like, but I knew I wanted to be successful. I knew that I was going to give everything I could possibly give to be successful. And it wasn’t again to your point that for yourself, of course, you want nice things and finding things in life. But, you know, my mission in life is to help people see a future greater than their past. And that’s what I get up every day. And I’m fired up to do this stuff or to do client meetings and run our wealth management company. But I hear that like, think time, did you spend a lot of time thinking about that stuff? Rebecca Kennedy  15:27   Yeah, I mean, gosh, I wanted to be a million things I was growing up, right. I could never see myself exactly like if you asked me, even five years ago, what I would be doing today, I don’t know. So if you ask me where I’m going to be in another five years. But I do know that I believe, if I give everything that I have to what I’m doing, it leads me to the next place that I need to be going so I just, I trust the process. I have faith in in, you know, doing my best and that’ll get me to the next place. I am Brett Gilliland  0:01   All right. So a little technical difficulty there. So we apologize. So talk about those when you heard me say earlier about attitude and your belief system and your actions. When you hear the word attitude, what comes to mind? Rebecca Kennedy  0:14   I always think positive attitude. I’m a eternal optimist. But um, I think honestly, like, leading with a positive attitude can change the entire landscape of your day of your life of that moment. Yeah, I mean, Brett Gilliland  0:34   yeah, I think when I talked about it as if you choose to be a victor, not a victim, right? Because there’s, something’s going to happen to you and I today, and we have a choice with our attitude to either how we’re going to respond with either negatively or positively. Right. So your positive attitude, but I think so many people, something happens, and then it’s like, they want to go get in the fetal position for a week and you know, cry about it when I think my assumption would be somebody like you says, yeah, that’s okay. That stinks. I don’t want to happen. That sucks. Really bad. But I’m gonna go out and take action now and do something about it. Fair. Yeah. Rebecca Kennedy  1:07   I mean, I couldn’t agree more. I think I’m a very solution based thinker. So the mentality that I live with is trusting the process, but knowing that like, you have the ability that you kind of change anything, you have the ability to filter out what you’re, what you’re hearing how things are, quote, unquote, making you feel you can choose whether or not to, to react in, in a multitude of ways, obviously. So I think if you’re in charge of of your emotions, you can really navigate into not to say that like feeling bad for a moment is fine. Growing up, we always had this rule in my house, it’s like, if you’re upset about something, you are allowed to have one pity party, and then you have to kind of keep going. And I appreciate that. It’s like okay, go be sad for a second. But then once you’re done with that, wallowing in it doesn’t change anything and it doesn’t. It doesn’t make your, your, your life any better. But if you’re solution base and I think at Peloton I thrive yours because we’re a solution based company, especially when you’re still like a startup and everyone is expected to be very like scrappy and the best at what they do. So when you’re coming to the table, and you’re trying to think about like, what’s next? How do we, how do we get from point A to point Z, right? You’re like, “Whoa,” this is like I you know, I tend to take on big massive projects, and I don’t get scared by them, because I know I can do them. And I’m a gymnastics like, you get kicked out of practice if you said the word can’t, and I don’t I don’t, I’m not joking about that you would be kicked out and you’d have to leave the gym if you said the word can’t. So it changes the way. You You’re like your your genetic makeup, like after a while. It’s like, I can do this, I just want to let you know, I’m afraid I need this thought I need help. And it learns it teaches you how to like, delegate and inform yourself of like, what? What kind of team and support do you need at this time? And when you’re going through things, and you don’t have to go through everything alone either. So knowing like, yeah, positive attitude. What does that mean? It’s not that somebody is just happy and has a smile on their face all the time. It’s like, positive that I’m going to be a winner. I’m not I’m like, like you said to Victor. I couldn’t agree more, especially when you’re whatever part of the team or of the family or of the partnership that you’re in. It can be not just obviously in sports, but in every area of your life. Brett Gilliland  3:41   That’s right, when thoughts become your actions, right. And then your actions become your results or your reality. And I think that if we continually say to your point, I say to my kids, okay, oh, I can’t get my seatbelt on. I’m like, yeah, absolutely. You’re right. If you think you can’t, you can’t right. Yeah, but if you think you can, there’s another way, maybe you move the backpack and you get stuff and then you make it happen. Right. So we’re on the same line there. So how about your belief system? When you think about, you know, when it comes to your eating, your sleeping, your movement, your businesses, all the things that you do? What’s your belief system that Rebecca Kennedy has to follow, like every day, Rebecca Kennedy  4:19   Consistency and balance. My belief in there has to be a balance of everything. I’m not I can’t live in the polar you know, ends of anything, whether that be like the extremes. I have dieting, of sleep of exercise of anything, too much of anything is not a good thing. Not enough of anything is not a good thing. So, you know, I’ll give you a little insight when I was in New York at the beginning. I was also fitness modeling and the demand of being a dancer and fitness model and I was you know, New York City is very expensive to live in. So I had another job on the side a couple other jobs and, and one of them I was bartending late at night. So I would bartend overnight, I’d show up to like the gym first thing in the morning, when it opened, I would sleep for a couple hours, I’d go to castings go, you know, to dance class, maybe an audition, and then I’d go back to work at night, and I was trying to stay really in shape. So I was I was limiting my calories, I was maximizing my energy expenditure, and I wasn’t getting a lot of sleep. That is not a sustainable way of life in your early 20s. Maybe it’s more sustainable. But now, and, you know, especially feeling like I have a greater opportunity to be a role model. And I don’t take it on as a responsibility. I just I am what I am. And so being able to showcase, okay, getting seven, eight hours a night, like how does that make you feel? Right? I’m drinking, you know, three liters of water a day, how does that make you feel? If I’m depriving myself of sweets all the time, or carbs, or you’re doing the next diet, always and you’re constantly in deprivation, like how does that mentally you feel? So I had to figure out what I needed personally. And I think consistency, when you find the things that work for you stick with them. And knowing that the balance is then okay, if I need to have one night or I’m not sleeping like the full seven, eight hours, that’s okay. It’s not the end of the world, but it’s not going to be my consistent. If I need to have that sweet. It’s okay. It’s not the end of the world. I want that because it makes me feel great . So those two things, and it works in every area of your life, especially if like I can tend to be a workaholic, too. Like I know my tendencies. And I love what I do. So I’m like, no, no, no, it’s okay, I’ll take on that extra work, I’ll take on that extra project, I can do it, I can do it. So the positive attitude also, like can get in the way but knowing your belief system, like you said, I am a firm believer and like you need to, you need to get your basics, but you need to know what your basics are. Brett Gilliland  7:28   Amen to that. I think that’s a crucial thing. I talked about focus 90 I have you know, the business world and we talked about is, when you walk in your office door, you need to have mapped out what your first 90 minutes are every day. Now, does that mean you know three or 65 days a year? You do it? No, of course not. You know, I don’t do it on the weekends. Right? I but I do it probably four to five days during the week. And there’s gonna be there’s gonna be a day where I miss it. But I know when I put my backpack down, I grabbed my big water. I know exactly what I’m gonna do. And I have found I’m controlling my day versus my day controlling me. Yeah. So because I think we can come into the office, right? And you you pull up your phone or your computer and all of a sudden these emails and voicemails and next thing you know, it’s noon, and you haven’t accomplished anything productive. Yep. Stop that, right. Talk to us about the food intake. So you being who you are. And you’re, I’ll be the student here, you’d be the teacher and just about busy lives and how we can make all the excuses in the world to not eat healthy. Now, again, I know there’s that cheat meal, there’s those things, but talk to us about what we need to do and how we need to prepare to eat healthy. Rebecca Kennedy  8:38   Yeah. So I’ll start this off by saying I’m not a certified nutritionist. So I’m not going to ever give anyone a prescribed diet plan, but I’ll give you a generalized suggestion that I typically teach my clients about and and will I live by myself. Um, so first and foremost, I, I can’t help stress enough like how important having water is and obviously like, you know that your first 90 minutes or like you’re getting it, I do my routine first thing when I wake up in the morning, and I’ll have my water and then I’ll have a juice of some sort, like, I don’t talk I’m not talking like orange juice, right. Right now I’m having a green juice something that is going to be a little bit more nutrient based and not I’m I’m a very low sugar person. I just don’t think it helps me sleep well. I have energy crashes and my schedule is all over the place in terms of like when I’m teaching when I’m working out so I need to have consistent energy. I don’t want to have spikes in my energy. I love having college and coffee in the morning gives you a little protein. If you’re not a coffee drinker, you can put it into your smoothies you can put it into so many other things, but having protein first thing in the morning is really, really helpful. And then throughout the day, it’s going to be one of those things where like, a macro approach is always the best for me. And I think it’s works really well for most people because it doesn’t say what you can eat. It shows it teaches you like when you’re figuring out what an apple is, versus a steak versus a bowl of cereal. You’re you’re you understand what you’re putting into your body. And I think education is the best tool for helping people understand what they’re trying to achieve here. So there’s plenty I work I’ve worked with nutritionist or naturopath and I love the naturopaths approach because she takes into consideration or that he or she, whoever you’re working with, will figure out the stresses in your life too. And like kind of what you need and give you a personalized macro approach. And the reason I love this is because I can have different foods every single day. That means if I’m traveling, as long as if it fits my macros, I’m totally fine. So I can be in the airport, I can be you know, in Kentucky, I can be in New York, I can be in Marrakech, I can be anywhere, wherever you’re going. I’ve never been to any of those places, I don’t know Brett Gilliland  11:21   what the tie is to Kentucky, but Okay, now, I don’t know. But Rebecca Kennedy  11:26   either way, the point is, is like you can enjoy the foods of wherever you’re at. I also want to mention like how, throughout the day, I think making sure that you’re getting enough protein, enough fiber enough vegetables, my rule of thumb for the way I’m eating is like I want two thirds of my plate to the vegetables, and then protein and and the carbs come from the vegetables, we can also have, you know, sweet potato, some rice, some, you know, Cauliflower Crust Pizza, like whatever it may be. But I think it’s really important to, to learn that carbs are actually necessary for your energy systems. Especially if you’re working out if you’re doing if you’re riding on the bike, if you’re running on the tread, if you’re lifting like you need that energy supply. So in the past, they’ve been like demonized by the press. The carbs are not your friend or the keto diet or intermittent fasting and like we’re all looking for a fast solution. So I encourage everyone not to take the path most taken but to take the path, path least taken which is the slowest one. And know you’re not going to see the results overnight. And I have to say that you shouldn’t see the results overnight because this is for the long game. So changing the way you think there’s never going to be a pill, if there was ever going to be a pill that change it would have already existed. And I’d be afraid of what it would do to my metabolism to be honest. But I think it’s a it’s a fun game to learn how food can fuel you and how food can nourish you, know we live in a society that’s extremely built around, built over meals, right? So we love to have conversations and quality time builds around meals. So be the owner of that and create meals that are are delicious and start to cook more I think if people cooked more, and ordered out less or went out less that it would be a far different relationship that that you’d have with food. But there’s plenty of apps out there too, that when you start putting the food in there, that’ll show you what you’re eating and not to, like, get you all caught up in the mental side of things like how many calories am I eating, but just to educate you from a very baseline standpoint. And then you can kind of go from there. Brett Gilliland  14:01   Yep. I think it’s good feedback. And I think too, you know, like for myself as your work during the day, I got four kids, I’m going to soccer games and basketball games and baseball games. And it’s like last night, it’s a perfect example. We’re 45 minutes from home, it’s gonna be late, they gotta get home and get showered and get to bed. And I know the parents are like they’re saying, Yep, that’s exactly what I did last night. Right? And so you find yourself going through a Chick fil A or Burger King. And it’s like, you know, it’s like, gosh, I’m so tired of doing that. But yeah, you know, so I don’t know what the answer is. But I guess it’s preparation and a process to have it maybe a cooler pack before we go. Yeah, it’s not as fun. Rebecca Kennedy  14:41   I was like, what did we do when because I’m like having a hard time remembering she’s like, sometimes you would just go home and after gymnastics practice and go to bed and I was like, I didn’t eat? Brett Gilliland  14:50   Yeah, just went to bed hungry. But you have a good breakfast. Rebecca Kennedy  14:55   No, I know. Like, this is kind of crazy. But yeah, I mean, gosh. Having, like logistics makes make eating really tough. So I think you just said you have your first 90 minutes of the day, planned out every single day. Yeah, what happens if you just looked at the calendar, this is what I do on every Sunday, I map out and I use different colored pens for everything. So that I know when my workouts are, and I know, okay, well, I’m going to need to eat that day. So either A, I’m going to order something before, so it’s like ready to go after and I know it’s clean, and I know where to get things from. So knowing what’s in proximity to where you’re at. Or I’ll just start to cook a ton of things on on Sunday, and then have it ready to for me to go. So either I can take it with me and just like put it in a tupperwear to eat like right after. Or I have a hold over. So I can have like a bar with me, which is like not super ideal or a smoothie or something like that. But get something into your system. Like right right away. Having, I’m a snack person. Like if you ever travel with me, I have a bag full of snacks. I know what you can take on TSA like but I think it’s important like you can you can… Nothing is worse. You can probably relate to this, like you ever been so hungry, that you’re just like, I don’t care what I eat. I just need to eat right now. Brett Gilliland  16:18   Absolutely. My wife says I get hangry all the time. Rebecca Kennedy  16:21   It’s a true, it’s an emotion. It’s an actual emotion. Brett Gilliland  16:25   I think the choices so you see I got my red shirt on. You see the cardinal hat in the background. I’m in St. Louis Right? So huge Cardinal fan. So here’s my dilemma. So I’m gonna go to the cardinal game today. It’s a 12:15 start. Yeah, I’m gonna go with some buddies. And we’re gonna go have some fun and we’re gonna go to a restaurant it’s like you know, basically ballpark village at the at the at the game. We’re gonna watch the Cardinals bring home a win, but I’m probably going to partake in like, you know, wings and a hot dog and maybe a couple beers. And what you’re telling me is it’s okay. Right? Because it’s the balance the integration part, you’re talking about? 100% Rebecca Kennedy would do the same thing. If you were going to Cardinal game with us today. You’d have a couple beers and a hot dog. Rebecca Kennedy  17:06   I’d have a burger. Brett Gilliland  17:10   We were gonna plant burgers or whatever the heck it’s called from Burger King last night to try to be somewhat healthier. And I’m like, yeah, it actually tasted somewhat normal. Rebecca Kennedy  17:18   Oh, yeah. No, they do taste like burgers. It’s very bizarre. Brett Gilliland  17:22   Yeah, it is kind of weird. But alright, enough of that. So talk to me about fears. How much has fear played a role in your life? And the second question that I always ask is, how many of the fears you put in your mind actually blew up to the magnitude you put them in your mind to be? Rebecca Kennedy  17:38   Yeah, I mean, you know, the monster that exists is like whatever you believe it to be right? It can. It can, it can grow bigger and bigger. But gosh, there was a there was a moment in time, I think I have a level of fear and fearlessness in me that evacuated my body at some one moment. And I remember this pivotal moment in gymnastics where up until that point, nothing shook me. I was like, I would jump off anything. I’d flip anywhere. I loved it. But I remember this one teammate of mine said, you know, like, you could get really hurt if you if you just bailed out a backflip and landed on your neck or like, you could break things, you can prick your neck, I was like, I think it was seven at the time. I was like, Oh my God, you’re right. I was Brett Gilliland  18:35   Never thought of that. Rebecca Kennedy  18:37   not doing that anymore. You know. And unfortunately, in gymnastics, like, you can’t not flip backwards. It’s part of every apparatus and it only things, you learn one flip, then you learn two flips. If you learn one twist, then you learn two twists, you know, it’s like you have to learn the baseline, but it’s always going to be there. So, for me, once I had that fear in the back of my head, every single practice that I showed up to I had to face that fear. And that I’m not talking about once a week, it’s four to five times a week three to four hours every practice and it is emotionally taxing. So you I had to find a way to kind of get through it. I’m gonna tell you a really quick story that the way I got over it, because it was pretty cool. And my mom is a very creative lady and I hope that I’m as creative as her when I have kids down the road but she would be she’d be the one bring me just like you bring your kids to practice. Every meeting every single practice sit there wait for me and then drive me home and seeing your kids like if they have ever have a roadblock like a mental roadblock or just a fear, you’re just like, I wish I could help you but you can’t do it for them. So she got me these books on tape to listen to on way to practice I’ve listened to them like before I go to bed. That didn’t work. She took me to hypnotherapist, I went and talked to like multiple people, I’d go to extra practices just to have that one on one time with my coach, and not a lot of people around me. Nothing seemed to be working. So she went to, she was a visiting nurse. And so driving around and other towns made sense. She said, she stopped by this gym, and talk to the coach about my fear. And she brought back this, but like vial of, of tablets. And she was like, basically what you do, and we’re going to do it when when we go to the next practice is, before you go to do your next backflip be like we’re gonna go into the bathroom, put the tablet on your tongue, stare at yourself in the mirror, and you can’t chew it, you have to let it dissolve. But while it’s dissolving in your mouth, you just have to repeat the words, I can do it, I can do it. And you have to visualize yourself doing whatever it is that scares you. So I had visualization technique, I was like repeating this positive mantra over and over in my head until this thing which took like five minutes to dissolve. And then I’d go right downstairs immediately do it. And all of a sudden, I had no fear anymore. I could do it. So I did that for years, Brett, I’m not gonna lie. We had a lot of like those moments in the bathroom. I’m sure my coach was like, What is this? Brett Gilliland  21:24   “The heck is she doing?” Rebecca Kennedy  21:27   But at one competition a few years later, I asked my mom for one of them because I was like I’m having a little nervousness right now. And she was like, “Okay, well, you know, I have to get a new vial out of my bag. So just hold on for a second. Just close your eyes.” And I obviously it was like, “Why do I need to close my eyes?” I saw appealing a label off of them. And I grabbed it. And it was vitamin C tablets. Brett Gilliland  21:53   So I was gonna ask… it’s called placebo. Rebecca Kennedy  21:59   So it was like that moment. And I knew I just went and did my competition. I didn’t really well. I knew how much of it was in my head. And, and so now, like, for example, I’m afraid of heights and I always have been. But I do everything in my power to challenge them. And I think if when you when you when you put it into… You try to justify your fear. You laugh a little bit, because it doesn’t make sense. And I think that helps me. I don’t just chalk it up to well, that’s who I am. I’m like, no, that doesn’t have to control my life. I hated the fact that I was afraid to do certain things and unlimited me on the amount of fun that I could have. So rock climbing, you know, walking on high bridges rope, like rope courses, anything that’s going to challenge my fear. I have heights. I do it all the time. Brett Gilliland  22:55   It’s awesome. Yeah, I like it. Talk to us about maybe a moment on what took you to your knees. You thought Man, this is it? Maybe you haven’t had one. And but is there any big challenging moments that you’ve had? You had to overcome that? And how did you overcome it? Rebecca Kennedy  23:12   Yeah. Well, I think the the first one I remember is like moving to New York City, and not knowing anybody here. And just going from college where you had, life was like kind of taken care of for you. And then being in a big city where like, no one cares about you. No one knows your name. Like you can just exist here. So that was scary for me. But then I was barely making ends meet. I didn’t. There was one month it was the first month that I was here that I didn’t have enough money to pay both my rent and MetroCard. But I was living in Brooklyn. So I had to have a MetroCard. And I didn’t have I couldn’t have money leftover to pay my phone bill. So I had to live for a month without access to my cell phone and my parents didn’t love that absolutely proud to even ask for help. But that was a scary that was a really scary month. Like I didn’t know if I was going to be able to make it I didn’t know if I made the wrong decision to move here. If I was always like going to be living in this… you know scarcity mindset, but I had to really rely on myself and I feel like the rock bottom moments are what really changes a person and sees what you’re made out of. And that’s where you kind of have to rely on your positive attitude and your belief system and like creating this. There’s no in my mind, I’m not going to lose. I’m relentless in that way. And I figure out way to make it happen. So I ended up getting another job and like, you know, picking up a little extra work, which is not something I had really the time or desire to do, but like you do what you have to do, and obviously, I gotta turn back on and it was fine. So it doesn’t seem like a big thing. But like the the amount of fear that I had in myself like I was here alone, and I had no way to get in contact and like it just felt very overwhelming and lonely. But I’ll circle back to like a couple years ago, I tore both of my hamstrings while I was a trainer, and my entire livelihood is built on being able to move. You don’t show up for work, you don’t get paid, you don’t train client, you don’t get paid. I was supposed to be running a triathlon in four months, I was supposed to be leading my first retreat. And four months in one week, I had a lot going on. I just started my own business. It was it was mentally like debilitating. And I remember being like, so down on myself, it was also like I just gone through a breakup, I tore both my hamstrings. It was just like not things in life. We’re just like, it felt like every wall was crumbling around me. And… Brett Gilliland  26:17   Don’t you think that made you stronger, though? I mean, like when you really think about it, and whether you write a book or not. I always say whether I write a book or not. But this is a chapter of my book. Rebecca Kennedy  26:27   100% Yeah, it was at the moment that you’re like, “What did I do back then?” That because I didn’t sit in the shower and cry every day. I was like, this is a game plan. I’m gonna go do this. I’ll meet with my physical therapist, what do you need me to do? I am, you’d give me homework, I’m going to do it. I was like, adamant about my recovery. I did what I can. So my also belief system is do what you can with what you have right now. So it starts with like, okay, what are you working with today, it’s gonna be different than the what you’re working with in a month. But like start with start with today work with the body that you have work with the means that you have eventually, like, you know, I think about the greats I always listened to. If you haven’t already, like the the podcast, Brett Gilliland  27:18   The Circuit of Success? Rebecca Kennedy  27:20   The Circuit of Success, you have to listen to it. Because there’s just listen that whether it’s like Steve Jobs, or Bill Gates, or John Foley, or whoever it is, like everyone’s success story is just teaching you that it has to start with nothing, or an idea, or maybe their rock bottom that got them to where they are now. But it all starts somewhere. I’m like, maybe this moment is the moment where I’m going to not just get back to where I was. But I’m going to I always end up spring so far forward. So I kind of look forward. This is weird to say, but I look forward to those moments because I’ve just, I’ve risen so far above where I was even before I get injured or before that rock bottom. And that is just like kind of it gives you this exciting opportunity to see what you’re made out of again. Brett Gilliland  28:14   So now we’re having fun here. I take I steal your cell phone right now. What’s the one app you hope I don’t delete from your phone? Besides email? Not that fun? I said? Besides that you can’t say like my email or something like that. Oh, yeah, that’s not very fun. Exactly. He can have emails. Rebecca Kennedy  28:34   I think I would say Instagram only because I really like connecting with everyone. I think it’s a great way just to be able to share fun experiences and and you know, honestly, like I communicate with so many of my friends, family members, friends from the past members on Peloton, like you just have an opportunity to meet a lot of cool people. I’ve met so many people on Instagram, which is fun. Ya know, that’s how we’re here. Brett Gilliland  29:05   That’s how we’re here today. Favorite book? You’re reader I see some books behind you there if you’re watching… Rebecca Kennedy  29:12   I’ve read all of them. Um, my favorite book of all time would definitely be Don Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements that changed my life about 10,11 years ago when I read it, The Four Agreements are always do your best to be impeccable with your word. Don’t take anything personally. And the fourth one is escaping me at the moment but I’ll come back to you. But the the way the philosophies behind each one of them help you take a moment where you’re going through a hard time and an understand it. It puts everything through a filter and allows you to see it through a different lens where like say for example, you know They’re, they’re doing layoffs or at your work or you didn’t get chosen to be head on a project or whatever it is, or you get, you know, broken up with or you, you know, whatever the situation is it feels negative is don’t take anything personally nothing anyone ever does is because of you it’s because of that. And knowing that that is so true and you can really understand that it’s they’re very difficult to live by but when you do you end up having this deeper appreciation and the level of happiness deeper appreciation for for yourself in life and also just a level of happiness that that you might not have attained prior to that so it’s good Brett Gilliland  30:49   I’ll have to check that book out. Sounds good. I’ve never asked this before but I’m gonna have you do because I can tell family is really important to you if your mom and dad, I think they’ll probably listen to this but if they’re gonna listen to this, what’s one message you’d like to tell mom and dad right now? Rebecca Kennedy  31:09   That I appreciate their support. And I think there’s a my mom and dad bent over backwards for me to to do the things that I did. And I know there’s probably a lot of parents out there that if your child was going into law, you’d be really proud of them and they decided they wanted to go major in dance instead that you want again, yeah, you’re like maybe not and try to coerce them into doing something else but there was nothing that I could have said to my parents that they wouldn’t have been like okay, well that’s it that’s what you’re gonna do and I support you like what what can we do to help you like when I moved to New York, they moved me here like when I had my first show they were there. So I appreciate their support. I think that’s one thing is like, in, in, in life um, connection is what people are really looking for. And having support from people. You just want to be seen you want to be heard you want to be felt like you’re important you feel support is all of that. So I can’t thank them enough for that. And I also appreciate them pushing me. Brett Gilliland  32:17   Is your mom crying right now hearing that? Rebecca Kennedy  32:20   She’s a crier so she probably is, my dad, no. Brett Gilliland  32:23   dads that cry moms. Right? That’s funny. Well Rebecca it’s been awesome having you work in our listeners find more of you. Obviously you talked about Instagram but talk to us about your Instagram handles your websites anything else like that? Where can we find you? Rebecca Kennedy  32:37   You can find me on Instagram. I’m at R K solid NYC is RK Sol ID NYC. I’m also on Facebook. I know a lot of you guys are on there. So you can jump on my Rebecca Kennedy Peloton page. I’m very active on that. You can go to my website. It’s Rebecca Kennedy fitness.com. Brett Gilliland  32:59   Awesome, Rebecca. It’s been awesome having you and I look forward to everybody getting to hear this. You’ve been awesome. We appreciate your time. Rebecca Kennedy  33:07   Thanks for having me, Brett. It was great.

Recognized as a global thought leader, Chip Wilson is a serial entrepreneur, philanthropist, loving husband, and father to five sons. As Founder and CEO of Westbeach Sports and Lululemon Athletica, Chip created one of the greatest apparel business success stories of all time and is widely credited as the creator of the “Athleisure” retail category, now a $400 Billion a year global business. He creates possibilities for people to live longer, healthier, more fun lives in his pursuit to elevate the world from mediocrity to greatness.

Helen Appleby is a British New York-based Women’s Leadership Expert who has helped hundreds of women step into their power and write their own rules for success while also helping hundreds of men understand how to best support those women. Having seen firsthand the experiences women disproportionately face in their careers, Helen created the “unwritten rules” to empower women with tools to write their own rules, navigate their versions of success and achieve their potential. She is a fantastic shopper, an average yogi, and a terrible cook.

Pete Holman is a man of many talents. With 5 inventions under his belt, and one more on the way, Holman’s entrepreneurial skills have served him for decades. As a founder, creator, coach, and now author, Holman has proven to be a successful pathmaker in the world of athleticism and invention. Selected as 2022 IDEA Fitness Leader of the Year, Holman’s career, life path, and passions are all explored on the newest episode of The Circuit of Success with Brett Gilliland. EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION Brett Gilliland  00:01 Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilliland and today I’ve got Pete Holman with me, Pete, what’s up, man? How you doing? Pete Holman  00:08 Fantastic. Brett Gilliland  00:09 Love it. We’re gonna have some good conversations today. Man, you’re coming to us from Aspen, Colorado. How is Aspen treating you today? Pete Holman  00:17 It is one of those days. So it’s 74 degrees 10% humidity, like clouds. I just had lunch with a buddy that I hadn’t seen in a long time. We’re at the park and there’s ducks floating on the pond. I mean, it just, it’s magical up here. I’m kind of high right now. So you got me at a good time, buddy. Brett Gilliland  00:36 That’s awesome. I love it. Kind of high right now. And in Colorado, that may mean different things to different people. Pete Holman  00:43 I well, I’m high on life. Brett Gilliland  00:47 That’s funny. Well, man, you are a I wrote down here entrepreneur, a founder, a creator, a coach and educator, an author now, man, you got a lot of good stuff going on. And we were connected by a little deal that you just created called Golf Forever. And I think before we started talking, I was telling you that I get this accountability group. And one of my goals with it is to golf well into my 90s. And golf on my 100th birthday. When you type in Golf Forever on Google, this thing shows up and then you guys do a great job and the ads show up on Instagram. And then I ended up buying it right. And so now we’re on a podcast together because I’m a believer. Pete Holman  01:25 Hey, so my funnels are working is what you’re saying? Brett Gilliland  01:28 That’s exactly what I’m saying, Man, because you literally I typed in golf forever like workouts thinking I would find like, Hey, do these 10 things. And then I didn’t know there was a product. And then once you click on it, and then your funnels work, and that’s something about business and sales that we could obviously talk about as well. Pete Holman  01:43 Fantastic. Well, so the founder of the company is Dr. Jeremy James. He’s a chiropractor up in Aspen. And he worked with golfers for years. And he just kept finding out that they were broken down their back their low backs, their shoulders, their hips weren’t mobile, the thoracic spine wasn’t mobile. And he it almost pissed them off to the point he said, I’m creating a program for this. And he ended up getting some funding. And it came became known as back back forever, meaning healthy backs. But then he realized that golfers are in specific need of this. And they you know, they tend to have a higher disposable income than just your average folks. And so they’re going to be more apt to, and they love playing golf. So I came along and he said, “Can you provide some content because I’m a strength coach and physical therapist,” I started creating content, I created a product called the TRX Rip Trainer, which is an asymmetrical bar training device. It’s great for all sports. And TRX, you know, they did some good things with it. They also did not iterate it over a decade. And that upset me because products need to evolve and right. Dr. Dr. James said, “hey, could we get an affiliate membership with TRX for the RIP trainer because it’s great for golf.” And I said “we should make our own and do it better.” And I was joking. I was completely being facetious. And he just glommed on to that. And the next thing you know a year later, we’ve got the Golf Forever Swing Trainer. It’s the world’s first two in one training device for for overspeed training, there’s a weighted ball on one end that you can load up and almost like a donut on the end of the bat. If you’ve ever swung a baseball bat in the batter’s cage and you get that kind of that heavy load and you take the donut off and then when you go to swing, you move like you know, Barry Bonds or somebody. And then if you take the ball off, there’s an elastic resistance cord on one end, that creates a symmetrical load and balance challenges and activates your core and helps you with rotational power. So that’s the Golf Forever Swing Trainer and it’s got an app that takes you through all the workouts and you find folks like myself, top top notch strength coaches from around the world and top notch golf pros from around the world like Scottie Scheffler and Justin Leonard. And I’m really excited. We just got a review. We’ve got over 1000 reviews, we got to 4.9 stars out of five, which is kind of unheard of. Brett Gilliland  04:11 Right. It’s incredible man because it’s certainly I wanted to get on here to learn about your story and all that stuff. And but I definitely want to talk about golf forever because just this week, I think before we started recording, I told you I’ve seen videos posted by Max Homa. He just won the tournament. And like the next day was using it and put it on social media. Scotty Scheffler got it on social media. There’s a picture of Jordan Spaeth carrying it in his hand while he’s going to the golf tournament and he’s shown his baby off to like Trevor immelman and some people and so you got it in the right hands, man. And so then you just say me and my buddies back here and you know in O’Fallon, Illinois are using I mean, what else do you need? Pete Holman  04:48 It’s fantastic and you know, really what it’s designed it’s great that the pros are using it don’t get me wrong and that’s a real you know, ego biscuit, but the fact that just kind of your your weekend warriors in your everyday Joe’s, I’m not calling you an everyday Joe. But but you know, I’m saying like not professional golfers. Those are the folks that that they haven’t stretched out for three, four weeks, they haven’t done core exercises, and then they’re gonna go to the driving range and crack balls with their driver. And the next thing you know, their back goes out and they’re at the chiropractor for the next five weeks. So we’re trying to break this cycle, we’re trying to get people involved in their own health and wellness and vitality, not just so they can feel good about themselves and feel better in their own skin. But so they can golf forever. Brett Gilliland  05:34 Yeah. And obviously, you can take a spin on that and call it just live better forever, right? I mean, this thing is going to like I was telling my kids or soccer players, I mean, like, even though you’re not, you know, swinging a golf club, you are swinging with your hips and your legs and all that stuff. And just if you want to be more flexible in life later, which is I know a lot of people listen to this show, they obviously care about their health, they care about their business, their family, all that stuff. And so this is important for them to know that it’s out there. Pete Holman  05:59 100% our, you know, the last couple of years has proven categorically that if you don’t take care of your health, and if you don’t watch your your, your fitness levels, and your dietary intake and, and your mobility, just all the stuff that we need to do to be strong and face everyday challenges, you’re going to be in trouble. And, you know, we saw that, you know, the statistics don’t lie. I think it was like 80 some percent of folks that died of COVID were obese, were diabetic, had congestive heart failure, had some kind of multi faceted dysfunction, pathology that led to and I know there was some, you know, there’s outliers that just were totally healthy and had a rough time with COVID. But, you know, man, you got to prepare yourself. Brett Gilliland  06:49 Yeah, absolutely. So let’s, let’s kind of go back to the beginning then and talk about what made you this entrepreneur and founder and creator and coach and because you don’t just wake up and start creating new products that are taking the world by storm. So what is it about you kind of your backstory that’s gotten you to do this type of stuff? Pete Holman  07:06 Well, I mean, I got in the fitness industry, I was always very athletic. I mean, I wanted to be professional athlete. I just didn’t know what sports so I, you know, I was really good at soccer, and I played competitive soccer. And then I kind of had a weird growth spurt, and I was uncoordinated. And I played baseball, and I played football and basketball and lacrosse. I was out in Denver playing lacrosse, and I grew up skiing. I thought I was gonna be a professional ski racer. And long story short, it wasn’t until I was like 19 or 20 that I really developed. I was very late developing in high school. I graduated when I was 17. And so just my high school sporting career wasn’t that great. And then I fell in love with martial arts and I, I started training in Taekwondo. I was at health club, I was working maintenance at a health club. And they had a taekwondo class. And I was it was like a Chinese kung fu movie. I’m like mopping the the racquetball court across from weather training in the tech window. And one day, the coach finally just literally walked across the hall and said, “Why don’t you put the mop down and come train with us?” And that was the start of my taekwondo career. And five years later, I was on the US national team, I was the team captain, I was traveling all all over the world competing at a very high level in Taekwondo. And, and that led into my career, which I always wanted to be the fastest, most powerful, the most well conditioned athlete on the mats. And so I started training in personal training, I started wanting to understand the human body and exercise physiology and anatomy and kinesiology. And so I got a personal training certification. Then I was constantly injured, which led me into physical therapy, wanting to learn how to rehabilitate myself. And so I got my master’s degree in physical therapy. And I started to realize that if there’s a problem in your life, if you search hard enough, and you’re inquisitive and creative, there’s a solution. And so I got this chronic product bug in and when I was working in my first physical therapy clinic, and we had all these medicine balls and BOSU balls and elastic resistance cords that were strewn all over the room, and a segment there’s gotta be a rack or something that contains all this stuff. So it can be organized so you can find it efficiently and effectively. And I searched on Google, there’s nothing around. And so I said, I’m gonna make my own and I literally went down to a fabricator in Carbondale, which is a kind of a suburb of Aspen. And I had something machined up, and I brought it into the clinic and people were blown away, they’re like, oh, my gosh, I can find my Bosu ball, I can find the medicine balls and it was organized and, and so then I thought I would be an entrepreneur which I you know, I’ve got no business background at all. And I launched this thing in 2009, which was the worst possible time, you know, for folks that are old enough. You guys remember 2008-2009 economy collapsed real estate, you know, junk loans and everything collapsed steel prices went up, gas prices went up. And my product was so expensive to create that I kind of walked away with my tail between my legs. However, I got experience and I got knowledge about products. And I haven’t stopped since I’m now on my sixth product. I’ve done a loaded carry machine for grip Pippins core strength, I’ve done a hip thrust to plate loaded hip thrust machine called the Novice Glute Drive, which is for posterior chain glute strength. I’ve done a TRX rip trainer now the Golf Forever swing trainer for golf training. And, and I’m working on one that’s very exciting for in home and commercial glute training. The glutes are the powerhouse of the core if you haven’t gotten that theme. Yeah, got to train your glutes. Brett Gilliland  10:52 We’ll have to get on that. So what let’s talk about that for a second by training your glutes, but just go for on anything anybody apart, but even just habits rituals, take the 40 something year old, rather the 35 year old, a 55 year old whatever it may be, let’s just pick on the 40 year olds, just because I’m 44 years old. So that’s what we’re gonna do. But what what is it that the weekend warrior, the average Joe that use your language from earlier? What is the things that we need to be doing that, you know, they don’t have the luxury, or the habit builds or the desire to go to a gym for you know, an hour to an hour and a half every single day five to seven days a week. But you know, they’re doing something three or four days a week? What should we be focused on as business leaders of our leaders of our family and leaders of our business? So we can be in peak performance? Or peak health? Pete Holman  11:39 Yeah, I mean, first of all, if you’re not doing something to keep your physical vessel charged up, you’re missing the boat. Even the great you know, Tony Robbins, who’s kind of the CEO whisperer and an incredible if you’ve never, you know, some people think of Tony Robbins as this kind of, you know, flamboyant salesman and motivational speaker. And I know that he’s got a history. But if you look at his story and what he’s done and what he’s accomplished, he’s quite a remarkable guy. And what he does, before he even lectures and goes out to present, he gets on a committee tram that does lymphatic drainage and bounces up and down and he does push ups and sit ups. And he gets his body charged up. He’s a black belt in karate, I believe. So high end business leaders need to focus on number one their own physical health, if you don’t have the vitality and the energy of bring it every single day. How are you going to? How are you going to lead a team? How are you going to make seven figures? How are you going to expand and evolve and grow your business into something better if you don’t have that energy and that vitality, and that comes from daily physical exercise. I don’t care if you take a walk every day for half an hour, get out in nature, just get your heart rate up a little bit. Ideally, you’re doing something that’s geared towards Holistic Health, meaning Hey, you’re eating healthy, nutritious meals, you’re getting in some flexibility, mobility work, if you’re a golfer, I don’t need to tell you how important it is to have flexibility and mobility in the hips in the thoracic spine, you need to do some kind of core strengthening exercise, as I think 85% of people that are in their 40s have had one episode of serious low back pain that has caused them to go to the doctor, orthopedic doctor, chiropractor or physical therapist. So you got to do something for your core strength. You got to do something for your heart and lungs. Your vascular system is everything that delivers blood and oxygen to your muscles into your organs into your brain. So you got to do something that raises your heart rate. So whether it’s a bike or a rower, or a skier gunner, or maybe just calisthenics. And then finally, you want your you know, your lower and upper body to be strong. You don’t want low bone mineral density, you don’t want osteopenia or osteoporosis, which I’m dealing with a lot of seventy year olds and Aspen now that are they’re getting reports. They’re very much into their health when you got disposable income, and you got time on your hands all of a sudden, what do you focus on? Health. And the problem is they’re going to these, the Mayo Clinic or Santa Monica wherever they go to get these workups total body workups and they’re finding that they’re osteopenic or osteoporotic. Well, it’s some it’s not I’m not saying it’s too late, but you don’t want to be seven years years old and be told that you’re osteoporotic, you want to be 40 and start doing some strength training. When you do resistance training, it strengthens your bones and your connective tissue. So it sounds like a lot but really, it’s not that much, you know, 20-30 minutes a day, four or five times a week you’re gonna be in great shape. If you want to take it to the next level if you really want to be competitive on the golf course. Or if you want to play tennis at a high level if you want to ski the Alps or whatever it is you want to do. You might need to up your game and add some agility drills in there some balanced training as you age. So, I mean I look at, I train everybody like they’re an athlete. And Bilbao Roman said this best if you have a body you are an athlete, meaning everybody’s an athlete. So you need to train some mobility, some strength, some cardio respiratory system response, you need to have some balance and you need to have some overall conditioning. And again, it sounds like a lot but if you don’t take care of your body, where are you going to live? Brett Gilliland  15:30 Yeah, so let’s break this down if we can, I think it’d be fun to do for people’s I’m a big fan of just the meat and potatoes right? There’s somebody can walk away from this this episode of The Circuit of Success and have a plan right? I mean, how cool would that be if Pete Holman and Brett Gilliland can give that person listening a plan? So let’s do this in a perfect week? It’s Monday. Okay, we’re gonna walk through Monday. So what are we doing Monday? What am I doing? Pete Holman  15:54 I, now let’s assume that folks don’t have a lot of gear and a lot of equipment. Brett Gilliland  15:59 Okay, perfect. Pete Holman  16:00 Okay. Because I don’t know what folks have. I would love to see somebody do a five to 10 minute warm up of any kind of it could be jumping jacks, it could be a brisk walk around your block. It could be anything to get your heart rate, you know, jogging in place, anything to get your heart rate up that primes the central nervous system, it gets your body ready for more aggressive exercise. So there’s a warm up. The next thing I’d like to see, as people do a couple basic stretches, if you don’t know what the world’s greatest stretches, Google it is a stretch will come up which will stretch your hips, it will stretch your upper body, it will stretch your thoracic spine. It’s called “the world’s greatest stretch.” So you just in one stretch, well actually Can I can I add two? Let me give you one. Brett Gilliland  16:04 This is our plan man. Pete Holman  16:25 Okay you got the world’s greatest stretch, and you got the downward dog. That’s a yoga pose that everybody that’s done yoga has done the downward dog, especially for men, we tend to get very tight and what’s called the posterior chain, the calf’s the ankles, the hamstrings, and this downward dog addresses that and it starts to build some core strength. Alright, so we got to warm up, we got some core strength. Now, or I’m sorry, we got some flexibility. Now I would like to add a core strengthening exercise. And I would like to see some type of a side plank, maybe 30 seconds on each side, and some type of a front plank, maybe a minute, that’s going to help help activate your core, it’s going to strengthen your spine. Okay, so now we’re warmed up, we’re flexible, we’re mobile, we got the core activated. Now we got to do some exercise and work the body. I love three basic moves, a push a pole, and some kind of change in elevation. So we’ll start with the easy one the change in elevation, you can do a squat 20 squats. Simple, right, maybe you want to add a little balance challenge, you split your stance and do lunges, you know the left legs forward, the right legs back, you go up and down 10 times you switch sides 10 times, if you want to get stronger and build more condition you do you add multiple sets to this kind of given the basic basic basic, do some kind of squat or lunge in your workout, you should also do some kind of pushing exercise in your workout. So maybe it’s a push up or a modified push up. You know, if you’re not strong enough to do a full push up, you could go on your knees. If you’re still not strong enough, you could get up on a countertop. And so you’re kind of just at a slight angle, right, and you’re doing a pushup off your off your kitchen countertop, or off of a chair so it’s easier. So you’re strengthening the chest, the shoulders and the triceps. Those are important muscles, then you should do some kind of a pull. Now pulling is a little bit harder, because typically you need an elastic resistance cord, or a TRX Suspension Trainer strap or a pull up bar. Now most people aren’t strong enough to do pull ups, but there should be some kind of a pulling motion. One thing you could also do would be if you have dumbbells is a one arm dumbbell row, which is where you get horizontal and you’re dropping the weight towards the floor and then driving your elbow up towards the ceiling. So now and you know if you want to finish off with some kind of a balanced drill, which I think balance is very important in life, not just philosophically, but for our physiology. You stand on one leg and you lift the other knee up to 90 degrees, and you try to balance for 30 seconds to a minute. It’s a great exercise. I use it with all my clients. Brett Gilliland  19:36 Yeah, I was gonna add to that we’ve been doing that and that Tuesday, Thursday, I’ve been having a group of guys over from an accountability standpoint, and it’s so simple but yet we’ve been doing that and then you stand there and then shut your eyes. Oh, we laugh man every morning. It’s like It’s like something just pushes you over. And so I think what I’ve read I don’t know if this is true or not. I’m not a doctor. But I mean that’s going to help the cognitive side too. Right? If I’m having to focus on multiple things standing there my oh arms out one leg up, my eyes are shut trying to keep my balance. It’s extremely difficult. Pete Holman  20:05 Yeah, well, actually, so there’s three components to balance. One is your visual system. And that’s why if you ever watch a high level athlete and you look at their eyes, I mean, they’re locked in on on targets on a boxer, their eyes are wide open, they’re trying to respond and in milliseconds, so your eyes are very important to balance, your proprioception, which are sensory cells in your, in your muscles and in your joints. And you know, those get deteriorated with age and injury. And those are important. And then finally, your tympanic membrane, which is part of your inner ear. So if you have you’ve ever heard of vertigo, or suffered from vertigo, it’s a terrible in your ear dysfunction, where you feel almost like you’re really drunk and you can’t, the room won’t stop spinning. So when whenever you challenge different parts of those systems, you help improve your overall balance by closing your eyes. Now you’re honing in on the appropriate sectors and your inner ear. So that’s a great practice to do that. And then obviously, yeah, you cognitively up to kind of go take a deep breath and up your game because otherwise, you know, if you enter that drill nonchalantly, you’re gonna fail. Brett Gilliland  21:13 Yeah, yeah. That’s awesome. All right. So we got our Monday done. Now, what are we doing Tuesday? Pete Holman  21:20 Well, to be honest, so there’s variations of all these drills. So for instance, maybe Monday, you did squats, maybe on to Tuesday or Wednesday, let’s call it you want to do the split squat or the lunge. Maybe you did a push up with your bodyweight on Monday, maybe on Wednesday, let’s call it you want to do some dumbbell presses. You know, a lot of folks have free weight, dumbbells press. You know, maybe you did a normal plank on Monday, maybe on Tuesday, you want to do what’s called a shoulder tap plank, where you’re in a push up position, and one hand reaches across and taps the opposite shoulder, you pause for two or three seconds. So you’re on like a tripod, right two legs didn’t want to, and then you put the opposite arm down in touch with the opposite shoulder. And so now you’re you’re entering into some some rotational stresses in that plank position. So just varying these drills, but we only really have six or seven foundational movements, we can push, we can pull, we can squat, we can lunge, we can rotate, we can hinge which is if you’ve ever seen a deadlift, or let’s say you had a really heavy box, and you’re trying to lower it to the ground, you don’t want to round your back, right? You want to kind of hinge from your hips, like like the Australian drinking bird, you know if you’ve ever seen, yeah, everybody gets that reference. I love it. So, so you know, you want to do those basic movements in your workouts. And you can use free weights, you can use elastic resistance, you can use, you know, pneumatic resistance, there’s tons of different you can use stability balls, you can use yoga, Pilates reformers, you know, yoga machines, but it’s some point you’re doing all those basic moves. Brett Gilliland  23:05 Yeah. So basically, what I’m hearing is a Monday through Friday plan is the five to 10 minute warm up, stretch, which if you just did two, it’s the world’s greatest stretch and the downward dog planks on each side, and then a normal one, variances there. And then the push, pull, and then change in elevation. I did that every day, right? 20, 30, 40 minutes a day, I’m in peak performance. Pete Holman  23:27 Yeah. And basically, the way you want to look at it is if you did a mild workout, you could do it every day, if you really went gung ho to the point, let’s say, instead of doing one set of 20 squats, you did four or five sets of 20 squats, and the next day, you’re gonna be sore, and you’re gonna be fatigued. And you might be a little cranky, your body might be a little cranky, you might say, You know what, today, I’m going to take a late swim, or I’m going to do just a brisk walk, or I’m going to ride on the bike and just spin because your bodies do need recovery. And, you know, I don’t want to get too deep into the philosophy of strength and conditioning. But there’s an ebb and flow. And if you’re not letting your body recover after vigorous exercise bouts, you’re actually doing yourself more harm than good. Brett Gilliland  24:12 Yeah. Pete Holman  24:12 You see that sometimes people some of these ultra endurance athletes, they you know, they’re running 20 miles every other day. I mean, you can’t recover from that. And so I’m not saying that’s not healthy, but it’s not something I’d recommend to my clients, you want that recovery time. And by the way, recovery can be active, it could be a light swim, it could be a walk, it could be you know, rolling on the foam roller, or using a Thera gun, you know, a percussive massage tool, getting a massage or getting a stretch. You know, there’s the stretch zones and stretch labs now, where you can go in and somebody will actually manually stretch you it’s, it’s magic, I mean, for your body. Brett Gilliland  24:54 I walk out there like I’m six foot four, you know, I’m six foot tall, but I feel like I’m about six, four when I walk out of those places.  You go to the stretch labs? I do. Yeah, we’ve got a guy, a couple guys here in town where I go and do that. It’s amazing. Absolutely amazing. Pete Holman  25:09 It is. And what happens is, when you’re stretching on your own, there’s a component of exertion, where you’re in an uncomfortable position, you’re having to kind of pull yourself down into position to stretch your hamstring, for instance. Yeah, well, that’s not allowing, that’s not facilitating a nice calm, relaxed, breathing method. And, and, and just cognitive state of relaxation. When you’re lying down and somebody else is doing the work for you. You just let go, and you kind of melt into the table. And that’s where you can get the most benefits out of stretching. Brett Gilliland  25:42 I couldn’t agree more, man. So talk to us on the business side. I mean, for you personally. But then also, I mean, just let’s just pick on Scottie Scheffler a year round. You know, the number of world’s number one golfer guy won the Masters this year, like, what do you see is the difference between you know, the world’s number one golfer versus again, use that word average Joe I mean, what do you what can you learn from that guy to share with us? Pete Holman  26:05 Well, a couple of things. I mean, number one is passion. Like I, passion should really drive your life. Sometimes you got to search for what you’re really passionate about. But when you’re doing something you’re passionate about, it’s an organic, authentic thing, and you’re going to be able to show up with much more ferocity and excitement and exuberance towards what you’re doing. Scott is extremely passionate about golf, he’s been that way his whole life. That’s kind of a gift. I was very passionate about martial arts, I’m now passionate about innovation and progression in my business career, and that helps me so you got to be passionate. The second thing you got to do is you got to immerse yourself, and whatever it is you’re trying to achieve or accomplish. I liked this guy, he’s passed away, but Dr. Wayne Dyer, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen some stuff or watched PBS special, he’s just a really amazing guy. He’s been able to kind of bridge all these different religions, he talks about spirituality, but he does it in a way that’s kind of non exclusive to any one religion. But anyhow, one of the things he talks about is the power of intention. And I’ll never forget he I watched this PBS special of his, which was brilliant. This was years ago, and he was talking about, I forget what his example was, but in my head, it was I was trying to purchase a house, I had a condo, I wanted to have like a real house. And he said, surround yourself with people and things and images and whatever it is paraphernalia that will remind you of your goal that you want to achieve. I mean, put it out there, tell other people that, “hey, I’m really looking to buying a house, put a picture of a house that your dream house, on their fridge,” you know, have a morning meditation, where part of it is, you know, I’m really excited about this day, and the ability to to earn and grow and evolve and eventually get my house for my family. And that power of intention. It works. It’s I mean, this isn’t Wayne Dyer, by the way. This is Psychology 101 It’s self fulfilling prophecy, if you think, you know, you’re gonna be a failure, whatever it is you’re doing, you’re right. You know, Brett Gilliland  28:23 We talk about all the time and even at work in my personal life, you know, it’s called the expectancy, the Expectancy Theory, right? Well, that what you focus on expands. And so, I mean, I’ve lived for the last 20 something years of my life thinking about that, I mean, I could go out this door right here and show you 15 years of stuff that I’ve written down and read, you know, maybe not twice a day, every single day, but damn near right where I’m reading it every single day and, and you look back on those things from 20 years ago. And it’s kind of like, it’s funny that that used to be a goal, you know, but then as you as you grow, those things are still scary. What might have been scary back then. And the things that I want to do and focus on today are scary. But I’m a believer that you go public with it. Right? You tell yourself that you can do it every single day you write it down every single day, literally every single day, I write down my goals of what I want to accomplish. And then I read it and then I believe it. And then those things happen. It’s not by accident. Pete Holman  29:23 It’s not it and what’s funny is it doesn’t cost you anything. It’s not rocket science. Brett Gilliland  29:28 No. Pete Holman  29:28 I remember watching. I forget which Olympics this was but if you’re old enough, you remember this Olympic diver Greg Louganis. Louganis was kind of a breakout us diver back in the day. And he was competing. He was a high level diver. I mean, he people thought he had the ability to be on the podium. And so he’s on the 10 meter platform. He does a dive and and he hits his head. On the actually maybe it was a springboard he hits regardless on the springboard. I mean, as a diver that is like the worst possible case scenario on a dive. Not only are you scratch that dive, but you’re concussed, you’re bleeding, it’s traumatic. So he’s got like one dive left. And he’s standing up on this Springboard again, he’s got to nail his dive, it’s either podium or not, and what’s going through his mind, I mean, 99% of the population would be, oh my gosh, if I hit my head again, if I embarrass myself in front of my country, my family and my friends and my my partners, and, and if I’m gonna lose scholarships, I’m gonna lose sponsorships, I’m gonna, it’s all gonna go down. I mean, that’s what most people think. Greg Louganis, think, you know what, I screwed up that first time, but I’m not screwing up this time. I’m gonna go out there. I’m gonna do what I practiced for my entire life. And I’m going to execute, and I’m gonna be standing on that gold medal podium. And what’s he do? He goes out and he gets a gold medal. I mean, that’s, that’s a different mindset. But you want to, you want to be a winner. You want to look at winners, when you gotta be your best when your best is needed. And you got to have that constant belief that you can do it even if you screwed up 20 minutes earlier. Brett Gilliland  31:09 Yeah. So one of the things for you, I would like to call them anymore. I call them unwritten rules, right? They may not be written down. You can’t Google “what are Pete Homan’s rules of life?” What are those unwritten rules that if I followed you around, I had a camera system I hired for a week, what am I seeing every single day in your life? Pete Holman  31:27 Well, one of my favorite quotes of all time was made by a famous clergyman by the name of Henry Ward Beecher. And he said, “Hold yourself to a higher standard than anyone else expects of you. Hold yourself to a higher standard than anybody else expects of you, if you can do that.” Now, granted, it’s hard because you put a lot of pressure on yourself, right? And I think high achievers, they, they they put a lot of pressure on themselves. And when if you fail, there’s a huge burden to bear. But I’d much rather be that guy or gal that puts pressure on myself and aims high aims for the stars and fails now and again, then somebody that’s just, you know, resigned to mediocrity. So that’s one thing I hold myself to a higher standard, by the way that comes in my, my personal life, my interpersonal relationships, my relationship with my daughter, my my relationship with coworkers friends, and obviously comes in business. I’m trying to excel at business and and be the best you know, product and vendor I can be the best representative of health and fitness that comes when I when I look at my own personal physical well being and spiritual well being, I’m holding myself to a high standard and it sucks because there’s days that I don’t want to work out or days that I don’t want to eat a salad or days that I don’t want to stretch and all that stuff. So you know, execute on that. And, you know, when I grew up in I think I mentioned my martial arts background. One of my favorite martial artists was Bruce Lee. And Bruce Lee has this famous quote, you can Google this. And he says, “empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. You can put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put into a bottle, it becomes the bottle you put into a teapot, it becomes that teapot, water can flow or water can crash, be water, my friend.” Brett Gilliland  33:25 Love that. Pete Holman  33:26 And I know he was talking about athleticism and athletics, but he was also talking about, you know, in his time, when he was coming up, there was a huge conflict between the East and the West. You know, he was coming from China. And he you know, he spoke Cantonese and Mandarin. And he was trying to assimilate into San Francisco. And he got it coming and going from you know, your basic white Caucasian people. And then even his own community gave him a hard time because he was teaching kung fu to the gweilo to the white people. So everybody hated him. And what did he do? He flowed like water, that ability to adjust and adapt and adapt in life, I think is critical. It doesn’t matter what you’re doing. You know, it’s like the old you know, the big willow tree and a massive storm, right? If it’s brittle and rigid and holds position, it’s just gonna snap in half. What’s it do? It just flows in the wind, and it can get through 100 mile an hour gusts. So, you know, that’s one thing I tried to do to the best of my ability every day is you’re gonna hit hurdles, you’re gonna have adversity, you’re gonna have heartbreak and loss. But you got to be that willow tree and just bounce back and be resilient. Brett Gilliland  34:41 I love that. I call that the bounce back theory. I mean, the most successful people I’ve seen in their lives, they bounce back quickly from rejection, right? I mean, we all get kicked in the shorts every single day, you know, maybe not every day but you get kicked in the shorts and I think the more you expect of yourself, the more you are going to get kicked around a lot. Have it and the faster we bounce back, the faster you’re gonna be successful versus going home and having a pity party and laying in the fetal position and cried about it and feel sorry for yourself. It’s like, okay, have the pity party for a couple minutes. But then let’s get out a piece of paper and an ink pen. And let’s write down how the hell you’re gonna get out of this problem. Pete Holman  35:18 Well, you bring up two good points. And the first is that, I think, you know, we’re really extreme in our society right now. And people take very hard lines, and I get it. But there’s, there’s an in between, right? There’s someplace in the middle. There’s a famous book by the called Tuesdays with maurey by Mitch album, great. And it’s a great book. And there’s the I don’t remember a lot of the book to be honest with you. But I remember one part. And Mitch album is this journalist. He’s he’s come back to reunite with his mentor who has a journalistic professor at his college and the journalistic professor who is Maury is dying of ALS. He’s he’s got a terminal diagnosis, and he’s dying. And Mitch comes over. And he says more you got to tell me something. I don’t understand. Every time I come over every Tuesday. You’re upbeat. You’re cheery, you’re bright. You bring you know, you bring light into my life. And here you are. You’re dying. I don’t understand how you do this. And he looks to Mitch and he says Mitch, you should have seen me 10 minutes ago. And Mitch, his ears perked up. He says, What do you mean, he’s like, I was crying, sobbing buckets. He said, I woke up, I was having a rough day, every joint hurt, I couldn’t my motor system wasn’t functioning. And I just I started crying. I thought I’m dying, like my life is over. And then after five or seven minutes of crying his eyes out, he kind of recovered a little bit, he opened up the blinds, he saw some birds flying in the horizon, the wind was blowing gently, the clouds hovered beautifully, the sun was rising. And he took some deep breaths. And he said, I’m going to make the most of this day. And I just like that kind of attitude. I mean, it makes me want to cry right now. Like, you’re, it’s okay to embrace that pain. And, and, and give it some time and give us some energy because it’s a real human emotion that we go through when we have a failure or success or loss. But at some point, you got to open up the blinds and you got to look outside for a sign from I don’t know, if you’re religious from the heavens, if you’re whatever naturalist from, you know, I was riding my bike the other day, it was kind of starting to rain, I was tired, my joints hurt. I didn’t really want to be out there. And all of a sudden, this this eagle, I never see eagles and Aspen. They’re here, but I never see him. I see red tail hawks all the time. I see bears. I see deer I see Fox, I see. I see all this wildlife. I never see an eagle. And this thing comes out of a tree like I must have spooked it as I rode by. And I could tell like that’s not a hawk. I mean, it had this massive wingspan, and it had like a barrel kind of chest. And you could tell it was really working to get loft. And I’m like is that an eagle and my cadence on my bike started picked up and it was kind of flying right in front of me. So for I don’t know, 15 seconds, I can’t following this evil. And I thought, Man, I don’t know what that is. But that’s a sign from above that I’m meant to be here. I’m meant to enjoy this life. I’m meant to take take this life and and experience it and look for things every day. That make me understand that there’s something greater out there. And that there’s a purpose for me being here. Brett Gilliland  38:40 But I think the key right there, and I’m sure you know this, or I know you know this, but I think I want to draw people’s attention to it is you got to be willing and open to look at that eagle up there and see something good from it, right? Because you could easily just write and then just put your head back down and start pedaling your bikes, but I think it’s embracing that eagle. Seeing that ego and knowing that there’s a reason that damn thing is there. Pete Holman  39:06 Oh, man. I mean, I what I’m not a big–– I love movies. I’m not a big old time movie fan. But there’s this movie. And I can’t even tell you the name of it. It’s like Fred Astaire, you know, back in the day, and there’s a scene where it starts dumping rain, right? Brett Gilliland  39:23 Yeah. Pete Holman  39:24 And everybody’s downtrodden and melancholy. It’s raining. Goo his dark sky. And here comes this is a Ginger Rogers. I don’t know somebody’s gonna crack. But they go out in the street and they’re dancing in the rain and they’re having the time of their life. I mean, you want to talk about living life. Like it’s it changed your perspective. If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. That’s another Wayne Dyer thing, quote, and it’s couldn’t be, you know, more true on a daily basis. Another thing I wanted to mention about my daily ritual and habits, and this is probably the hardest thing Is professionalism. I always whenever I do a project or submitting a proposal or typing out an email, and you know, you got to take this with a grain of salt I mean not every single one but the important ones. I mean, I reread that thing three or four times I changed the verbiage I proofread it. I want to come across as a professional and everything I do. And I never forget the story a client told me I’m up in Aspen so I trained like these Uber wealthy, you know, Gulfstream owning clients who of the world and one of them lives has a house and mystique. Mystique is an island in the Caribbean. And it’s where like all the rock stars and actors have places and and Mick Jagger has a place on Mystique island of the Rolling Stones, at least circle the Rolling Stones. So now there’s a bar called Basil. It’s on the silent and everybody it’s there’s only one bar restaurant. It’s called Basil. So everybody goes there, and you hang out like even people that are just super wealthy hanging out with all these rock stars and actors. And Mick Jagger is in this bar. And my clients very friendly with the house band at the bar. And they talk to them all the time. And so my client goes up to the drummer during a set break and says, Why don’t you ask Mick Jagger to come on stage? Songs? Right. So so the drummer is like “Hunter No,” and she kind of goats him and she says, “Come on, you know, you can eat. You guys are so good. They love you.” And so the drummer kind of gets his nerve up and he goes up to Mick Jagger. And he says, Hey, would you ever want to play with us? And Mick Jagger says, “yes, I’d love to play with you.” So the drummer said, “Great, we know all your songs.” And and he expects Mick Jagger to step up on stage, Mick Jagger never shows up. So at the end of the night, the band’s kind of wrapping up and the drummer kind of goes up to Mick Jagger and says, “Hey, is everything okay? Did I do something to offend you?” And he’s like, “no, no, I just want to rehearse before we play.” And drummer looks at him like, rehearse? I mean, your Mick Jagger dude your Mick Jagger. And he says, “Well, no, let’s let’s get a couple of rehearsals.” And so they rehearsed two times, maybe three, I forget what the story was. They went through like a three song set. Keep in mind, Basil’s bar. There’s nobody there. There’s like 120 people maybe in any given night. So 120 People in the middle of nowhere. This is Mick Jagger, the best rock star ever. He wants to rehearse with the band to do a couple covers of his songs. And of course, he comes back later in the next week. And he plays and my clients got pictures of her dancing and Mick Jagger is like right there, you know, three feet away from her. And that story resonated with me. There’s a reason Mick Jagger everybody knows who Mick is. And it’s that reason right there. He is the most professional rock star you’ll receive. He eats well, he trains and conditions himself, he takes care of his throat. And he rehearses and rehearses and rehearses. Steve Jobs did the same thing before a keynote address. I mean, there’s a reason these people are high performers. So if you want to get to the next level, be professional. Brett Gilliland  43:18 I love it. I love it, man. So what keeps you up at night right now in your life? Pete Holman  43:23 Well, I’ve got this new product, it’s called the Glute Slide. And you know, I’ve kind of been geeked out on the glutes. As a physical therapist and strength coach, I always know that the glutes are important and you know, kind of yada yada, but I’ve really honed in on this. And if you look at the gluteal muscles, there’s some basic muscles on the top, the gluteus maximus on the side, there’s something called the gluteus medius. But then deep inside there, there’s seven rotators, that rotate the hip externally, there’s internal rotators. I mean, there’s a dozen muscles in that, in that gluteal area. And it’s the powerhouse of the core. And not only for sports and athletics, but everybody that kind of wants to look good on the beach, you know, you want to get your wedding dress or you want to look good in your jeans. You want to have a nice toned firmstrong glued. Well, fast forward to if you’re 70 or 80 years old, which is a lot of my clients right now, guess where they’re weakest in their glutes. Guess why they fall down the stairs because their cool glutes aren’t able to decelerate their next step. Or if they miss a step, the glutes can fire and have enough strength to hold them in position. So I thought there’s got to be a machine I could create for the in home and commercially that would train specifically train the glues. And that’s what I’m working on right now. I’m on my third prototype, and it’s going to happen so keep your eyes and ears open for the Glutes Slide sometime in 2023. Brett Gilliland  44:47 Well, we’ll buy it. We’ll buy that as well, man. Why not? We’ll just keep it going guys stay to peak performance. So where can our listeners find more of Pete Holman? Pete Holman  44:57 I am at on Instagram @PeteHolman1, the number one, h o l m a n. Pete Holman 1. I’m also at Twitter @PeteHolman1. I’m on Facebook at Pete Holman. I have a couple of different accounts. I’m not as good at Facebook I, you know, Zuckerberg, the guy’s brilliant, but he changes stuff everym every two or three weeks, there’s some new algorithm or some new formula, some new interface and it’s very hard to keep up with this. Plus, I’m not 17 years old, like my daughter, she she has to coach me up and upskill me on this. Brett Gilliland  45:28 Look when you were 17 you wouldn’t be on Facebook. Anyway, my son told me that my 16, 17 year old son the other day told me he goes, you know, “Daddy’s I don’t mean to be mean, but Facebook’s for old people.” Pete Holman  45:38 Yeah. And all that. But which, by the way, if you’re in business, and you’re in you’re wanting to capture younger audiences, by the way, even 30 year olds are still on Tik Tok and Snapchat, if you’re wanting to hit that marketplace in that niche, you better figure out that that stuff, you know, don’t don’t be so entrenched in your old ways. And I see that in business now especial, especially with digital marketing, right now you’ve got to execute on all cylinders. To capture that audience. By the way, I also have a website called PH1performance.com. PH for P. Holman one the number, just the number 1 performance.com, PH1performance.com. And there’s, you know, there’s all my contact information on there, I think my emails even on there, if you want to reach out to questions or anything I can do to help you out. I’m all about like, my whole mission in life is to help other people execute and, and reach their human potential. As far as their health, wellness and vitality goes, I think if you can do that, you’re much better husband, wife, father, daughter, son, business partner, etc. But it all starts with you and your own internal physiological health, and your spiritual wellness and mental wellbeing. Brett Gilliland  47:05 We’ll put all that stuff in the show notes. But I think you agree with us with what you just said right there struck a chord in me is, I think that’s why I’m so focused now at 44 on fitness and health, and what we’re doing to stay vibrant is, you know, I own a wealth management firm. So all day long, I’m talking about people’s monies, their dreams, their goals, their aspirations. But look, you got to start when you’re in your 20s, start saving some money, and then save a little bit more in your 30s. And a little bit more in your 40s. Right? For the time when you’re 55 and 65, and 75 and 85. And you want to go live the life you want to live and go the islands and do all these things, right. But it took 20 and 30 years for you to get there. Well, now at 44. I’ve got to invest my time today that’s going to help me when I’m 64, 74 and 84. When I’m out there playing golf, still taking my buddy’s money, I hope, right? I gotta put that that investment, if you will, in today, for the future. Because who knows how long we’re gonna live man with modern technology. Pete Holman  48:02 What you said is probably the most profound thing of this entire podcast. And that is you better invest in your health savings account. Because it is just like your financial savings account. If you get into retirement and you haven’t done your job on the front end is too late folks. And I sick all the time, because I’m working with 60,  70, 80 year old folks. It’s when I say too late, I’m being a little dramatic, but you know what I’m saying? Brett Gilliland  48:29 Absolutely. Pete Holman  48:29 And you’re late 60s And you’ve got congestive heart failure, and you’ve got diabetes and your diet is terrible. And, and also the doctor says you need to change. You need to stop smoking, whatever it is. It could be too late. And like you said, people were like I’ve got a client that’s 94 years old. Wow. And he’s a billionaire. Like, especially if you’re doing well in life. I’m not saying everybody wants to live long but especially if you’ve worked so hard to this wealth. And now what you can’t play with your grandkids on the beach, you can’t take a trip because you’re too tired and weak. Come on. Brett Gilliland  49:04 Yeah, that would not be good. Not be good. Well, this has been an awesome conversation man on a Friday afternoon. Love the time together with you, Pete and thanks for being on The Circuit of Success. Pete Holman  49:13 Appreciate it so much, keep the dream alive everybody.

Travis Thomas has experience in a wide spectrum of careers from improv comedy, to writing, to coaching professional athletes on the U.S. Men’s National Team. As a driven performance and culture coach, Thomas published his first book “3 Words for Getting Unstuck: Live Yes, And!” in 2016. He is passionate about inspiring others, and believes that anyone can discover their brilliance by committing to purpose, authenticity, and life-transforming collaboration. EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION Brett Gilliland  00:00 Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I’m fired up, man, I’ve got Travis Thomas with me, Travis, how you doing? Travis Thomas  00:06 I’m doing well. Thanks for having me. Brett Gilliland  00:07 It’s good to have you. Travis Thomas  00:07 Yeah, let’s let’s let’s jump in the for those of you who can’t see if you’re listening, right, we’re in an amazing office slash studio so, so I’m super impressed. Brett Gilliland  00:08 Yeah. Well, thanks so excited to have you over here in our O’Fallon, Illinois Visionary Wealth Advisors office and but Travis is a performance coach. He’s the creator of Live Yes And Travis Thomas  00:28 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  00:28 Which I can’t wait to talk about, Live Yes And. You’re, you’re also a comedian. So hopefully you make me laugh today. Travis Thomas  00:34 Doubtful, doubtful. Brett Gilliland  00:36 But also comedian, you’re an author, man, you’ve you’ve worked with the, I’m going to say this word? I don’t normally say it. But the Chicago Cubs. Travis Thomas  00:42 Yeah. You know, you know, we’re here in St. Louis country. Brett Gilliland  00:45 Yeah. Travis Thomas  00:46 So I’m, I’m a mercenary. So Chicago paid me. Brett Gilliland  00:50 Exactly. You got a show? Well, yeah, we’ll get the guys over there and see if they can get you but the Chicago Cubs, Boston Red Sox, Toronto Blue Jays, Georgia football, do a lot of personal coaching workshops, online programs, man and but the biggest role you kind of have right now is to the United States men’s national team for World Cup coming up? Travis Thomas  01:10 Yeah, really exciting. So I’ve been on staff with them since January 2020, the head coach brought me and Greg Burkhalter. And so I’m a contracted worker, but on staff, I’m the Leadership and Team Dynamics coach. So that’s kind of the title we came up with which which carries a lot of, a lot of things but working with the team from leadership skills to mental skills. The way I like to think of it Brett, is I’m the guy that does, is always thinking about the culture. Right? So kind of the torch carrier for the culture or so many staff members are doing so many important things. I’m always thinking about all right, how are we continuing to, to make sure we’re in alignment with with our overall culture as a team. Brett Gilliland  01:52 And that’s huge, which we’ll talk about in a little bit. But but if you can, Travis, give us a little lay of the land on what’s made you the man you are today. It’s a question I asked on every episode. And I think there’s there’s always a backstory that maybe I don’t know, through my research, and maybe some people that we want to give credit to too but what what has made you the man that you are today? Travis Thomas  02:09 Are we working with a company doing that, are you on your own the whole time? Yeah, well, it’s, it’s been quite a, it’s been a quite an interesting journey. I would love to say that I’ve had a plan. And when when I talk about purpose, right, I talk about, you know, purpose is not a it’s not a it’s not a map. It’s it’s a compass. And so if I, if I were to look back and connect the dots in reverse to how I got to doin the work that I’m that I’m doing today it, it was scary. It’s been terrifying. It’s been uncertain, but it’s always been purpose forward, purpose driven. And so you know, the skinny of it is I, you know, I’m from Flint, Michigan, for those of you who know Flint, Michigan, most people don’t tend to know Flint, Michigan in a positive light, they tend to think of the water or they think of “Roger and Me” and the documentary and General Motors pulling out, but I come from Flint with pride, you know, hard working town, we had a family business there. And so I definitely have those kinds of those Midwestern roots. But I loved sports growing up, I played soccer in college, the Division Three level, got out of college, got married right away, my wife and I we’re celebrating year 26 next month, we got married young and I figured it was time to kind of get into the professional world, whatever that meant. And so we moved to Boston and I was working in marketing, she was working in publishing. First weekend in town, we went to an improv theater that had just opened a few months previous saw an improv comedy show, and for anyone who’s never seen an improv comedy show, it’s a lot like “Whose Line Is It Anyway”, on TV. Second City is a big improv theater that a lot of people have heard of, went to a show five or six people on stage, creating stories out of nothing out of audience suggestions. And I saw that show and I was blown away. I was like, how do they do that? You know, that’s magic. How did they do that? So they have a lot of courage takes a lot of courage and a lot of just I’m like, what’s the what’s the formula there? And so I signed up at a training center. So I took a level one class, level one turned into six levels of training. And a year and a half later, I was graduating from the training center. And then I was auditioning for their touring company and I made their touring company and then I made their development cast. And then I finally after a couple of years, made it to the mainstage cast and so kind of felt like a superhero. I had a real day job, you know, Clark Kent, you know, with a suit during the day and at night, I was on stage, hopefully making people laugh and, and I did the improv comedy thing for a few years moved to Florida, started a group of two guys down there in 2003-2004. We still perform together when we can it’s more of a glorified hobby. But then, you know, I was working for a website, a spirituality website that came to an end it was the big question kind of around 2005, which what do I really want to do with my life? And I wanted to do coaching and I wanted to do speaking, and I really, I love working with groups and teams and people on and the corporate level and sports and but that started to do Deep Dive into personal development for myself and then to get certified in personal development, which led into organizational development, which led led into corporate training and executive coaching–– I was on my own, which, which meant, I didn’t have a lot of work. You know, we had our third child, and I’m like, you know, family of five, and I’m not making any money, and we go into debt, and we go into a lot of debt. And then it was scary. And it was this idea of sort of following your purpose. Like, man, I really felt like I had a sense of what I wanted to do. But it was tough, and not really knowing what that path was going to look like. And so just kind of in survival mode, I would say, you know, survival mode for about 10 years of just trying to make ends meet and, and being really scary, but always having a clear sense of who I was and what I wanted to do. Brett Gilliland  05:55 Let’s dissect that if we can. So I mean, I’m, that is fascinating to me. So for one, you had a very patient and understanding and supportive wife at home. Travis Thomas  06:03 Hard stop there, right? Yes, yeah. Yes. Brett Gilliland  06:05 Yeah. Shout out to Hollister. Travis Thomas  06:08 Shout to Hollister. My wife, because in lots of different, you know, and I’ve seen it, we’ve seen it in other marriages where financial hardship comes and there’s not enough there to hold the relationship together. So God bless her. Brett Gilliland  06:20 Yeah. So so that 10 years. So now you’re you’re fighting through odd jobs, and you get this gig. That’s exciting. You get this gig. That’s exciting. Yeah, make it a little bit here. How does a guy from Flint, Michigan go to Boston, we go on stage, we’re making people laugh. We go down here and we decide I want to be a coach. Because, in my opinion, what I struggle with sometimes as coaches out there, just in full transparency, is there a “coach,” but they haven’t had the grind. Travis Thomas  06:46 No. Brett Gilliland  06:46 Right? And now you did the grind. But how did you do the grind and end up on the United States men’s national team for soccer? I mean, that’s mind blowing. Travis Thomas  06:54 Well, there were, and that’s the thing like that, that 10, 10 plus years, really, you know, it’s all the steps in between. And so, you know, I, you know, I ended up moving up to St. Louis 2007. And I took a job with my alma mater as an assistant soccer coach, just to stop the bleeding. Brett Gilliland  07:13 Which was SLU. Travis Thomas  07:13 Which was not SLU, was actually Principia College. Brett Gilliland  07:14 Okay, for sure. Travis Thomas  07:14 And even though I’m working at SLU, now, it wasn’t my alma mater, and took a job there thinking that there was going to be a job on the other end, either as a resident counselor at the college or, well, that turned into being a resident counselor at the high school at the boarding school. So for three years, Brett, with my children, seven, four, and one, were living in a boy’s dormitory in an apartment in the boys dormitory, making nothing. But but just it was stopping the debt. And but here I was, but you look back, and like what what was the work that I was doing on a day to day basis, right? I was mentoring young high school men from around the world. And then when I wasn’t doing that I was coaching sports at the same time. And so I was doing the work that was allowing, it was laying the groundwork, it was planting the seeds. And then after doing that for three years, we put the kids into a minivan. We started driving around the country, like, alright what’s the next step? Yeah, we had no plan. And after driving around the country for six months, sleeping in a tent, hotel rooms and friends and family who would ever take us we ended up back in Florida again. And it was like, Oh, this is I’m going to be a coach or consultant. We’re back in our house. And I thought that was the plan. And then I get an email after being home for a month that IMG Sports Academy in Florida was looking for an improvisation and leadership coach. Like how in the world do those two exist together? Brett Gilliland  08:39 Right. Travis Thomas  08:40 So I didn’t really want to leave our home and go the other side of the state. But I’m like, I can’t not explore this opportunity. Brett Gilliland  08:45 The IMG, it’s the best. Travis Thomas  08:47 The IMG right, and working at the premier sports academy in the world. And so I went in and interviewed with a sense of freedom of I don’t really want this job, because I want to stay home. But and so that, you know, little lesson for those–– Brett Gilliland  08:59 You have nothing to lose, right? Travis Thomas  09:00 Nothing to lose, because I can be totally transparent and honest. Well, then they decided they wanted me and so I’m like this is too good of an opportunity to pass up. So I then did that for about two and a half years at IMG Academy. Again, you know, as a coach day in and day out on your feet coaching everyone from Korean golfers to NFL Combine football players to pre MBA basketball players to soccer players, from South America to tennis players from Russia, and having to deliver that message and work with those athletes on a day to day basis. And so when I left there in 2015, and just started decided to start this my own consulting company called Live Yes And. I felt like Alright, I’ve got my reps in. Brett Gilliland  09:41 Yeah. Travis Thomas  09:41 And then it’s really been from 2015 that I’ve been on my own. I wrote my own book in 2016 called three words for getting unstuck, which is Live Yes And, which we’ll about that. And then I you know you do what you do you send your book out kind of as a glorified business card, I sent it to the head coach of the US Men’s national soccer team in 2019 cold with no intent of ever hearing anything, a) that he would get it, b) that he would read it, and c) that you’d want to do anything right? And so what happens, he got it, b) he read it and c) like, all right, he goes, “Are you interested in coming and helping, help me with the team? Here’s the culture. Do you want to come in and help me?” You know–– Brett Gilliland  10:20 And that’s purely a cold cold call, if you will called Zero? No connection? Travis Thomas  10:25 No connection, Yeah, yeah. And so that that so since January 2020 I’ve been, you know, with the national team whenever we’re together. And then when I’m not with the national team, I’m doing corporate consulting, corporate speaking, as well as working with other sports teams on the on the culture and mindset piece. Brett Gilliland  10:41 So many places to go right there, Travis. Travis Thomas  10:44 So that’s that’s the path. Yeah. So how does he end up on the national team? It’s like, a whole lot of I have no idea what I’m doing. But I’m just going to take the next step based on purpose. Brett Gilliland  10:55 So that makes me think of so the Circuits of Success, hence, the name of the podcasts are your attitude, your belief system, and the actions that you take? Travis Thomas  11:03 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  11:03 Get the results. Travis Thomas  11:04 Absolutely. Brett Gilliland  11:05 And so without one, it’s like the light bulb. That’s a circuit side, the light bulb doesn’t shut. Right. And so when I hear there is action, I hear getting my ass kicked, basically. Travis Thomas  11:16 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  11:16 Pardon my French, right for a number of years. Travis Thomas  11:18 Absolutely. Brett Gilliland  11:19 And still doing it. Still having support no plan, which I want to talk about, because I’m a big planner. Travis Thomas  11:25 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  11:26 But then yet, the action part is I don’t know where this is gonna go. It costs money to buy my own book to label the book to find the guy’s information, send it to him. Travis Thomas  11:35 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  11:36 And then have faith. Right. So belief into action is faith is what I was talking about. And so when you hear me say it like that, I mean, how does that come to mind into your story? Travis Thomas  11:45 Yeah, no, I think you nailed it. And I think I can remember, I can remember because I’ve sent my book to tons of coaches. Brett Gilliland  11:53 Sure. Travis Thomas  11:53 Right? And maybe I get a thank you card back. And there’s really no expectation when you know, when you send the book cold, I was talking to our buddy, John Oleary, when he’s like, “How’d you end up on the national team of like?” “John, you’re not going to believe this. I sent a cold copy.” And he’s like “Travis. The cold send never works!” I was like, “I know, I worked this one time.” Brett Gilliland  12:11 All it needs to do is work one time, right? Travis Thomas  12:13 And so I remember, I remember being in the family room and being like, I should send Greg a book. And then the voice in my head says, “Don’t waste your time.” Right. And then the other voice in my head says, “but it only takes five minutes.” And the other voice says, “You’re wasting your time, you’re wasting the three bucks, or whatever it’s going to send” and I just remember the other voice going just sit down and do it. It takes five minutes. And I wrote the Thank you. I wrote the note, put it in the book, Senate. And, and I’m just so grateful that that one voice was louder than the other voice that was saying don’t send the book. And so if I were to write my next book, I think the next book is going to be called “Just Send the Book,” just send the book, just–– Brett Gilliland  12:54 Incredible. That’s like, you know, it’s what is it the Wayne Gretzky, quote, “you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.” And so… It makes me think when I was when I turned 40. So this is four years ago, most gosh, almost five years ago, I wrote down the 40 things I had learned in my life. And one of them was I said, “just take the lunch.” Travis Thomas  13:13 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  13:13 And I can’t tell you how many people you know, you’ve met them, I’ve met them, “say I’m not going to do that.” They don’t want to pay me or they’re not going to do this, I’m not going to take the time to go do it. And my philosophy for 20 plus years now in the business world is take the lunch, I don’t know, right, you start to get fewer and fewer lunches that you take. But when you’re building your career, you’ve got to take the lunch, you’ve got to send the book wouldn’t you agree? Travis Thomas  13:33 Absolutely. And I’m still in that space, right? I’m still in that space where, where I will go in I told you, I don’t need to say who but I went in last week and did a workshop for a team. I didn’t get paid, right. But I went in with the intent of this is an opportunity for me to, to get a foot in the door to share with with what I’m about and if this is a good fit, it’s going to turn into another opportunity. And my advice always to young speakers or young coaches or young consultants and again, because I still do the same thing is I offer my services for free all the time. Because you know how this this world works. It’s it’s relationship building, you are always relationship building, and very seldom have I done something for free that didn’t turn into something further down the road. And again, it’s going back to intent, right? Like what is my purpose? Right? So my, my purpose in life is to inspire myself and others to live their authentic brilliance. So whenever someone gives me the opportunity to to provide that right anytime I get a chance to do a workshop with someone I have the opportunity to live my purpose, right? I get my chance to inspire someone else to live their authentic brilliance. And that doesn’t always come with a paycheck on the other end, but it comes with me fulfilling my purpose. And again it since that is my compass, right. If I’m always moving in the direction of my compass, sometimes there’s going to be a paycheck On the other end of it, but there’s always going to be fulfillment on the other end of it. And, and at the end of the day, that’s, that’s always going to be the feeling that that keeps me happy and keeps me going and happy from the standpoint not of frivolous happiness, but of fulfillment. And that’s why I think it’s so important, you know, to have a clearer sense of, of what our purpose is, and to be able to keep moving in that direction. Brett Gilliland  15:26 So, when I go with that, there’s two thoughts that came from that part right there, there’s one when I talked about beliefs again, in the actions, but that belief is the belief in yourself, yeah, right. And so I think it takes a massive amount of belief in ourselves to go to that team. Yeah, for free. Because again, you’re not looking for the best, now you have the long term perspective. But to go there, and know that you’re gonna hit a homerun, and you’re gonna deliver, and, you know, there’s no guarantees in life, but I have a pretty self confident thing to say about you that I think they’re gonna call you back, right? So belief in itself is massive. Travis Thomas  15:59 Yeah belief, it’s so interesting. Brett, you say that because I, it’s funny, I go in, if someone said, “Hey, will you come and do a workshop?” I have tremendous, I have tremendous belief that when I go, when I go, when I’m going to provide like a quality session, there’s also there’s also a voice inside of my head that that is always making me doubt my ability, imposter syndrome, whatever you want to call it. And so and it’s those two, the analogy of the two wolves inside your head, right? You know, it’s whichever one you feed is the one that wins. And so I always have a healthy dose of doubt. But, but there is whatever it is. And I think that’s why purpose is so important, because it’s connected to my purpose. It almost gives me permission to go like, I might go in and stink. Yeah, but I’m still living my purpose. And so just go do it. Anyway. Brett Gilliland  16:51 Yeah, I think we all have those two people. I was the way I always talk to you about him as you get this, this man or woman on your shoulder here saying, “Don’t do it, Brett. That’s a terrible idea.” This guy’s saying, “Let’s go youk know, like we’re gonna make it happen.” And you’re right, though, whichever one I listened to the most and feed the most is the one that we do. I call it comfort zone callous. Travis Thomas  17:08 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  17:09 And so I think that that self doubt is healthy for some of us, because that does drive us but I think the more you do something I always say the comfort zone is this big. Travis Thomas  17:17 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  17:18 And then if you try to break through it, it’s you know, I play golf. So I’ve calluses a man, right. And so, for me to go around that and get out of my comfort zone, I have to go around the callus, right. And so then my comfort zone gets a little bit bigger. Travis Thomas  17:28 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  17:28 And a little bit bigger. And you’ve done it enough now and the 10 years where you weren’t making a dime, and you’re going in debt, right? That was you busting through that comfort zone to now you can walk in a room and deliver. Travis Thomas  17:39 Right, right. It’s finding your edge I talk about finding your edge of your comfort zone? Yeah. Right. And it’s like, you know, working with athletes all the time, even with my own kids. You know, I dropped my son off for training the other night. And the last thing I said to him was like, you know, “hey, what do you focus on today?” Right? I’m trying to–– Brett Gilliland  17:54 How old is her? Travis Thomas  17:54 He’s 15. Okay, just turn 15 I’m trying to avoid asking, you know, asking players, how do you feel? I’m avoiding that, right? Because Because feelings are not an indicator of performance. Right? Think about that for a second, right? Yeah, feelings are not an indicator of performance, you can feel super confident and still play lousy. You can feel nervous and afraid and still perform at a high level. Right. Brett Gilliland  18:16 Say that again, again, feelings are–– Travis Thomas  18:18 Feelings are not an indicator of performance. You know, I was raised. I think I’m just a few years older than you despite the gray. I’m a few years older than you. And I was right generationally I was raised as an athlete. It was this whole be fearless, no fear generation, right. So as an athlete, I felt and I was I was a player that carried a lot of nerves. So I always felt that I was less of a man. Because I was afraid, not knowing that probably most of us had his head a sense of has his head a sense of fear. But if you’re if you’re made to believe that you’re not supposed to be afraid, and you are afraid, well, that now I feel that something’s wrong with me from the get go. So, you know, I work with athletes. Brett Gilliland  19:02 God can interrupt. I’m sorry. So I heard you say that I was a kid that played sports all grown up. And I would throw up before every game, right? I was so nervous. I was so and it does mean it messes with your head mentally. Which then kind of makes you come back and maybe not be as aggressive. I joke now that I’m a better golfer today than I was when I was actually competing and playing golf. Travis Thomas  19:22 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  19:22 Because it’s less in my head. Yeah, than it was back then. Travis Thomas  19:25 And imagine, imagine a coach coming to you at that age and, and you’re nervous and you’re afraid and they’re basically saying, “Hey, it’s totally fine. Totally fine, man. Awesome. You care. Right?” So we’re not going to try to change that in you. Right instead. “Hey, Brad, listen, what do you focus on before you go on this round?” Right? Be nervous, Hey, be nervous, right? But what are you focused on? And so you know, I’m always asking my kids and then asking players that I coach as they’re going out there. Hey, what are you focused on today? Give me the two or three top behaviors that you’re focused on actions, right because I can be afraid and focus on actions, actions get me moving. When I focus on my feelings, it’s like I’m feeling good or feeling bad doesn’t mean anything. What am I actually doing and focusing on behaviors and actions and so but the other thing I said to my son is i, “what are you focused on?” He tells me, “Alright dad, I’m focused on these,” I’m like, “awesome, go find your edge today, go find your edge,” right? Get get to that edge, because like you talked about the comfort zone, just get one step on the other side of your edge today. And then you’ve just expanded your comfort zone. Brett Gilliland  20:29 So how do you do that, though? How do you how do you find that edge, walk to the edge and then actually jump over? Travis Thomas  20:35 Right? It’s, we’re almost, it’s great in the book, Born to Run, which is a fantastic I highly recommend it to anybody. Can’t can’t think of the author’s name real quick, but it’ll come to me, Born to Run. And the book is all about, you know, these ultra runners and just the history of running and just all these I call them crazy people, right? My good friend is an ultra runner, he’s a crazy person, shout out to Brian. And he’s talking these ultra runners in the book, and they’re talking about that edge. Right? And this one female runner. She says I see it as a playful pet, when she’s running. And she’s like, I try to find it as quickly as possible, right. So think about that. Imagine as an athlete, if you tried to go out and finding that edge is basically kind of getting to that point of, I don’t know if I can make another run. I don’t know if I can make another tackle because I feel spent. And what do we really know is what happens if I make another run or make another tackle? When I find myself at that edge? Go one step further. Or can I go two steps further now you’ve just what where does confidence come from confidence comes from finding that edge and just pushing that edge and tomorrow, it’s gonna be a little bit bigger, and the next day is gonna be a little bit bigger. So our goal is, so the discomfort we feel is actually that we embrace that as “Oh, I’m finding my edge.” It’s not a bad thing. It’s like, “oh, I’m feeling uncomfortable. Yeah, I’m finding my edge. Awesome. So just push through it just a little bit.” Brett Gilliland  22:01 It doesn’t. I’ve heard this before. I’m no doctor. But nerves or anxiety is no different feeling the body and the brain doesn’t know the difference between anxiety and excitement, right? Travis Thomas  22:11 Yep. So the only difference? Yes, physiologically, what’s going on inside of my body when I’m nervous and I’m excited is the same thing. So the way I like to think about that brain is so the only difference Brett Gilliland  22:22 Man that would’ve been nice to know when I was a kid. Travis Thomas  22:24 Right? So the thing that usually determines whether my feeling is nervous, or whether my feeling is excitement is because we’re thinking about a possible outcome. And when I’m nervous or afraid, I’m probably focused on a possible negative outcome. And when I’m excited, I’m thinking about a possible positive outcome. So it’s like, oh, my gosh, I get to go take a penalty shot, or I’ve got a five foot putt, right to win this tournament. If I’m nervous, I’m thinking about missing it. If I’m excited, I’m thinking about making it. Regardless, all that says to us is when I think about the outcome, it’s a distraction. Instead of just thinking about I’ve got a five foot putt, what do I need to focus on in order to make a good putt? Right, so, so letting letting go of outcome and focusing on the action which is always in the present moment? Right? And so what improv what improv taught me, which I needed as an athlete, improv, all of a sudden exercise this muscle, which is you have to stay fully engaged in the moment. Right life is happening in the present moment sports are happening in the present moment, I talked to soccer players. And like, whenever you feel like you’re distracted in the past, or you’re thinking about the future, if you focus on the ball, the ball is always in the present moment. Right? So ask yourself, where’s the ball? Where do I need to be? Brett Gilliland  23:45 So to dissect that even so then I’m a guy I’m playing I’m the whatever the the forward.  And the ball is across the field. And I’m thinking about man, last week I did this one thing or, or stuff like that is what you’re saying, I’m–– Travis Thomas  23:51 Yep.  I can’t believe I just missed that shot 30 seconds ago, and I’m still thinking about I’m still thinking about, we’re probably going to lose the game now because I missed that opportunity. Now, now we’re, our thought is can’t believe that it happened in the past. Now I’m thinking about the possible future. And then you want to catch yourself you want to catch yourself, oh my gosh, I’m distracted to how do I get back to the present moment. Brett Gilliland  24:20 And this is business for we’re talking about sports, obviously. But there’s lesson, right this is life. This is home with your kids. Travis Thomas  24:27 You know, talking to I talk to salespeople all the time, I’m like, Alright, you’re in a sales call. Right? Here’s on a sales call. Are you thinking about “I can’t believe I just said that. I totally flipped that or why I really need to close the sale. I don’t know am I going to close the sale?” You’re you’re thinking about the win or you’re thinking about the then right thinking about the past few years thinking about the future? Where do you need to be fully engaged in the moment in the moment is if you’re fully engaged on on the on the client or the person that you’re talking to? There’s so much information that’s being shared in the present moment, but if I’m thinking this again, what improv taught me was as soon as my thoughts starts to go, past or future I’m no longer engaged in so I’m missing key information, education. Brett Gilliland  25:07 And that’s huge. Travis Thomas  25:08 And so for a player, right, it’s like, oh, shoot, I’m distracted. How do I get back to the present moment? Well, there’s lots of different tools. But I given the mantra, just just tell yourself, where’s the ball? Where do I need to be? Because now I go, where’s the ball? The ball is there. “Where do I need to be?” is action based, oh I need to push up or I need to make a run? Or I need to go win a tackle or I need all of a sudden now you’re you’re you’re thinking about what do I need to do instead of what happened? Or is what what is going to happen? Brett Gilliland  25:35 That’s incredible, you know, I’m I go to soccer games now, all the time. I got four boys. So pretty much if I’m not here at the office, I’m at a soccer field. Right? Okay. So that’s where I go. And I’ll be there tonight. But you’re right. And it’s like, even as fans, we can do that. But let’s let’s pivot from the soccer field and go into the home life. Travis Thomas  25:52 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  25:53 And so with four kids, it’s crazy, right? It’s can be nuts. You’ve got I think you said three kids. Right, good. So how, what advice would you have for the parent to take what you just talked about for the soccer player, and apply that to the home right to the kitchen to the upstairs, where maybe you’re putting the kids to bed, it’s chaos, all that kind of stuff. And as your kids get older, that gets a little bit easier, right? But it’s still crazy. Travis Thomas  26:15 Yeah. So what we’re, what we’re always striving for, is to be present, right is to be present with whatever we’re doing. And so, so again, your your home life, there’s tons of going on, tons going on, you got young kids, you got trying to make dinner, trying to bedtime you got maybe you’re still trying to do stuff from work, you had all these different moving parts going on. And the only thing that allows you to be successful is by focusing on what’s happening right now. So, so again, so how do we do that? So, again, I’m not a sports psychologist, but I teach mental skills. And I like to break it down and make it really, really simple because I’m not a complex guy. So I want to make things as simple as possible. And to me, the when we talk about mental skills or mental toughness, all we’re really talking about is the ability to bring our full attention to whatever activity we’re doing in the present moment. That is it. So when someone says, oh, my gosh, that play are you so mentally tougher, she’s so mentally tough. What they’re saying is, if they’re a soccer player, when they’re playing soccer, they’re fully engaged in what they’re doing. They’re not being distracted by the noise that’s going on around them. So optimal performance to me is when you bring your peak ability with wherever you are today, with your peak attention, you combine those combining skill and attention is your optimal performance. Well, so at home, right, there’s lots of distractions going on all this stuff that needs to be done. But all we can really do is one thing at a time. And so it’s, it’s it’s making, that the world is too big. We need to make it small. And so it’s our ability to always ask ourselves what’s you know, there’s a there’s an acronym, a great sports acronym W I N, what’s important now? asking ourselves, what’s the more most important thing I need to be focusing on right now? All right, well, we got dishes. We got laundry, we got us. Yeah, but what’s happening right now? Okay, well, I’m putting my five year old to bed. All right. So can I just put my five year old to bed? Right. So I’m putting my five year old to bed all our five year old wants is full attention. Dads listening to me. Alright, Dad’s gonna read me a story. All right, can I be fully engaged while I’m reading the story? Right? All that other stuff is waiting for me. But can I be engaged with what I’m doing? Put the five year old down, great, boom, all right, what’s the next? What’s the next thing that I do? And we bring our full focus to that. But we’re humans. And so we’re constantly going to be distracted. So the, the goal–– Brett Gilliland  28:44 but isn’t it I keep interrupting? I’m sorry. But I think it’s amazing is when you say that I’m just you know, putting a lot of the boys to bed and do storytime and all that stuff over the years. And it’s funny when you say it, because you’re right when I am in the moment, right? Yeah, I’m using air quotes. And I’m not really in the moment. And I’m thinking about maybe I need to read this book. But you know, you just want to get to that next thing, I gotta do this, you gotta do that. It actually takes longer to put them to bed. It is right. To stay in the moment with them though, and actually do the storytime and do all that stuff. It’s actually a more efficient process too. Travis Thomas  29:17 it’s more efficient, and it’s more peaceful. Brett Gilliland  29:19 Yeah.  Yeah. A lot more peaceful. Travis Thomas  29:19 Right. Because we’re not because we’re not thinking about the distractions, right. The reason distractions are distractions, because it’s getting us to think about lots of different things instead of the one thing that we’re doing. And so when we actually focus on the one thing that we’re doing, the stress and the anxiety and all the other things don’t really impact us because we’re just thinking about what we’re doing. Right? We’re just like, we’re turning the volume down on all the distractions, they’re still there, right? We’re just turning the volume down. The only reason what we, what we focus on we amplify. Yeah, right? Whatever we focus on, we amplify. So if I focus on what I’m doing, I’m amplifying what I’m doing. And if I’m if I’m, whatever I’m thinking about is what I was what I am amplifying that as well. And now I’m thinking about that. Well, I mean, that’s a distraction. So, so when we think about the distractions, we just amplify the distractions, it’s not, our goal is not to get rid of them. It’s just to turn the volume down on them. And it’s it’s addition by subtraction, right? I bring more to what I’m doing by just focusing on one thing at a time, by letting the rest go, so all I’m ever trying to help athletes or people do with mental skills, is simplification, right? Make it simple. Don’t become the person who thinks you’re an awesome multitasker, you’re not. So think about just just just turn it into bite sized chunks. If I’m a salesman who’s getting ready to make a sales call before that call, take take a minute and say, “Okay, what are the two or three most important things for me to focus on in order to have an effective sales call?” Alright, so you can think through, okay, like, I want to make sure that I’m asking good questions, or I’m going to ask good questions, I want to make sure that I’m listening to them fully, not cutting them off listening to them fully, I’m really going to seek to understand how they’re feeling. Alright, good. I’ve got a game plan, I’m gonna focus on these two or three things. Now, there are lots of other things going on around, yes. But if I focus on these two or three things, my experience has taught me that these are important. And if I focus on these three things, I’m going to be I’m going to have an effective sales goal. And so we’re always we’re just simplifying, whatever we’re doing, and we live at a pace right now in society, where it’s one thing to the next one thing to the next. And if we don’t create the space in between each activity, even if that space, I was just doing a coaching call with a corporate group the other day, and in this zoom world we’re living in right now a lot of times people are like, “Travis, I’m going from one zoom to the next.” And I was like, “Yeah, can you even can you pause 60 seconds in between each zoom? As you finish one zoom? Give yourself a little debrief. All right. What’s the most important thing I need to take out of that call?” Capture it. And then before you start the next zoom call, can you do a reboot and say, “Okay, what are the two or three most important things for me to focus on this next call in order for it to be a good call it turning the page?” Yeah. And just build those breaks in between everything that we do athletes is the same thing, right? From school to sport, to homework, right? School? Can we give ourselves a break? Sport? Can we give ourselves a break moving on? And the analogy I heard, which was great, which is music without the pauses in between notes is just noise. Right? Brett Gilliland  32:44 That’s true. Travis Thomas  32:44 What makes music beautiful is the space in between the notes. And so if there’s no space, if it’s just note, note, note, note, note, note, note, it’s just noise. And our life is the same way to create the pause in the gaps, which allow us to process what has happened and also be intentional about the next thing that we’re doing. Brett Gilliland  33:03 It makes, it makes me think about something I’ve done and probably see these journals if you’re watching back over here. And so is I say, slow down to speed up and use this teaching think time. And I think it’s so important for that pause between the notes is, is I’ve never heard it like that. And that’s so true. And so I think, when you think about the world class, business people, the world class athletes that you get to connect with and help and study really even as well, what are you finding for them from either a breathing standpoint, a slowing down to speed up think time? You know, like, I use my other journal all the time, like, what do you see in there? That’s, that’s a game changer for those folks. Travis Thomas  33:40 Yeah, I think to go back to just what we were talking about is a real, a real clear sense of, of priority. Right? Always, you know, keeping the main thing, the main thing. So even though, right, the, the higher you sort of rise and importance, whatever that means you have a lot more that you’re responsible for. So the temptation would be that you’re just being constantly pulled in so many different directions. And what I’ve seen, you know, from great leaders, whether it’s, you know, the national team coaches that get to work with or are really high level CEOs is the ability to make sure that they’re really clear on what the top priorities are. And, and the next step is their ability to be really, really present in whatever they’re doing. And knowing that it’s nonstop, but knowing that the only way to be effective is by bringing their full presence to what they’re doing right now. And again, I see this with the national team coach, it’s like I can’t fathom the amount of responsibility that’s on his plate, but when you’re with him, you feel like he is completely present with whatever we’re doing right now. And so the only the only way that you can maintain that is by actually being really clear on what the top priorities are, and making sure that those guiding values, principles priorities are sort of guiding everything, right. And so again, when I, when I work with an organization, I just had a call today with a potential team I might be working with in the future. And we’re talking about culture and creating an identity, that clarity of being really clear on who we are and what we’re about, right? And make that as super simple as possible. What are those three core values? What is the main identity of who we are and what we’re about? And now how do we take those values and turn those into behaviors? And then how do we consistently replicate that behavior day in and day out day in and day out, making sure that everything that we’re doing is tied into those core values. And we can do that in our own personal life as well. Again, the reason I have a purpose statement is so that I have that Northstar, so that I have that compass. So when I do feel overwhelmed, I can ask myself, how is this connected to my purpose? And if there’s not a strong connection to my purpose, this might be something that on itself is a fine activity. But for me, maybe it’s just more of a distraction right now. So maybe I need to say “no” to it. Brett Gilliland  36:17 Yeah. And you say that now because you had this experience. And so for that person that’s in that grind, and then what I’d call the crap work that we both have had to do in our careers. I think, you know, for me, yours is authentic brilliance, right is kind of the end of your tagline. And, and that’s what this year is that future greater than your past is we are firm mission, my mission is to help people achieve a future greater than your past. Travis Thomas  36:39 Yep. Brett Gilliland  36:39 It doesn’t just come to you. But I think working on yourself, in that 10 year journey, right? Oh, that is how you figure that out? Travis Thomas  36:48 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  36:48 And so to the people, like, how do you find your mission? Your mission is found by rolling up your sleeves, putting on your work boots, and going out and making things happen, but also studying being a student in the game reading, doing different things like that? Would you agree? Travis Thomas  37:00 Absolutely. And, you know, it’s whenever I try not to give advice, as a coach, right? You try not to be an advice giver, you try to you try to be you try to listen and, and help, you know, create clarity through questions and through understanding and but you know, I definitely have young people come to me all the time and say, “Hey, Travis, what do you think I should do? I’ve got this option, or I got this option.” And really, the question I always go back to is of these possibilities or opportunities, which one excites you the most? On a personal level? Which one excites you the most? Because, because, again, I go back to if we follow if we follow our curiosity, right? That’s a good indicator that we’re probably following some authentic purpose that we have, right? And, and even if even if things aren’t going well, if, if we’re interested in curious, there’s probably a certain sense of fulfillment to it. And maybe that curiosity leads to another cure. And again, if I just look at my own journey, it was, I was constantly, even at the most desperate of times, I was still following curiosity that I felt resonated with, with my purpose. And so you know, as as a as a freelance worker, I wake up more days, during the, during the year unemployed than employed. Brett Gilliland  38:30 Where’s that next check. Travis Thomas  38:33 But when when I’m doing work on a day to day basis, that that is intrinsically purpose driven. I’m still fulfilled even on the days when I’m not making money. And so that fulfillment is, is the constant because because it’s deeply rooted and ingrained with who I am. And so the money will come and go, and hopefully this success will will incrementally continue to increase and the financial successful, will incrementally continue to increase all along this journey. And as terrifying as this journey has been even at its worst, I still had a sense of, you know, this is who I am. And this is what I’m supposed to be doing. And that’s passing that pillow test. You know, go to bed at night. Brett Gilliland  39:22 Yeah. Yeah, that’s huge. And so. So when you think about fears, I asked a lot of people this question is we put a lot of fears up our minds in false evidence appearing real. It’s what it stands for. A lot of people say, right, and so how do you how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind have actually blown up to the magnitude you put them in your mind to be? Travis Thomas  39:44 Very few of them? Right. Very few. I think the fears this is a this was a Tim Ferriss exercise that he had talked about in one of his books a long time ago and he is talking about fear and he would, you know, a lot of times when we have these these scary fears, we try to avoid them. We don’t want I don’t want to think about him. And he’s like, actually, you know, when you notice these be these big fears that pop up. He’s like, basically follow that path. Go with it. All right? Ask yourself, okay, if this were to happen, what would happen? He’s like, you know, he’s like, “alright, I start a company, and it doesn’t work out as being I go bankrupt.” He goes, then what would I do? And he’s like, “alright, I would be broke. So I might have to ask a friend or family member if I can sleep on their couch.” And he’s like, “Would I be able to do that?” And he’s like, “Yeah, I’d be able to do that. Would it stink? Yeah, it would stink.” He’s like, well, “then what would I do?” And he’s like, “I would, I would probably start, you know, working on the next opportunity.” And so he kind of does, like, “alright, if the worst case scenario were to happen, what would happen? How would I respond to it?” Right. And, and that’s when you can sort of look, sort of some of these fearful things, you know, you know, in the face and go, okay, yeah, if that worst thing happened to would I still be okay. And I think like, I feel like I’ve been able to do that over the years, because then then it forces you, Brett, to get really, really clear on what is the most important things in my life. And I remember my wife and I, having some of these difficult conversations over the years, especially early on, you know, we we couldn’t afford to live in our house anymore in Florida, and which is why we had to come back up to St. Louis was like 2008, which was egoicly, just very humbling, you know, and for me, you know, as a father of three, to feel like a big failure, I had to really grapple with, you know, my identity and a sense of failure. And I just remember having a conversation with her feeling gutted for having to take our family out of our home, which we loved. And it’s remember, you know, we were talking I said, you know, you all are the most important thing, and I know that we’re going to be okay, or we’re going to the three, the five of us, we’re going to be okay. So regardless of what happens, what we have to do, as long as we’re okay, we’re okay. And it just, it forces you to get really granular to like, okay, at the end of the day, what’s most important? Brett Gilliland  42:16 How do you get through that though? So so you’re there? You’re on a, I call them a dark day? Travis Thomas  42:21 Yeah super. Brett Gilliland  42:21 How did you, yes, super dark, like pitch black dark? Travis Thomas  42:24 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  42:24 How do you? How do you get through that, though? Because there’s somebody listening this right now? Probably, that’s in a dark day. Yeah. And so how do you get through that on days you don’t even want to do it? I don’t want to get up. I don’t want to go work in my purpose. You know, screw you this, yeah. What do you do? Travis Thomas  42:40 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there will be days where you don’t do anything. Brett Gilliland  42:47 Which you have to learn to be okay with. Travis Thomas  42:48 That to be learned to be okay, with and, you know, it was Einstein, I think it was Einstein said that, that the only time a person makes a real change is when the fear of doing nothing is greater than the fear of change. Right? Right. Brett Gilliland  43:05 Yep. Travis Thomas  43:06 And so I think all of us experienced that. And so there will be days from someone who’s listening to this, they’re like, I can’t right, I, I don’t know what to do today so I’m going to do nothing. And so there will become a moment where it’s like, what the fear of doing nothing is now greater than the fear of actually taking that scary step. And moving forward. And so, you know, in those in those darkest times, for me, you know, I, you know, had gone through a lot of courses on personal development, I had a coach and I had a mentor. And I remember him just saying to me, when I was doing no work making zero money, you know, living with our in laws, and he was like, “Alright,” he’s like, “Travis, what would it look like, if you got up every day? And spent two hours in your office doing your work?” I was like, but “I don’t have any work.” He’s a “no, no, I’m not talking about that work,” you know, he’s like, “I’m talking about your purpose work.” Or you spend two hours being really intentional, about, you know, focusing on who you are, and the work that you want to do, and doing whatever that looks like today, the personal work and internal work. And, and though those were, those were the times those were the years where, you know, I was probably doing two and a half to three hours a day of of commitments of micro commitments of things that I knew was allowing me to grow personally and individually so that when, you know, the work opportunities come along, I’m ready for them. I’m ready for themm because we can’t control when it’s like the fireman’s mentality. You don’t know when the fire is coming, but it’s coming. So what are you doing in the time before the fire comes to prepare you to handle the fire when it actually happens? And that’s that sort of that the uncertain discipline that you have to take advantage of those times. So when the call does come have you, are you prepared to handle it? Brett Gilliland  44:59 And I would call it street cred to right because it’s like, if you’re gonna be here with these world class soccer players, these world class business people, I gotta know that you went and did it. I want to know that I don’t want you to just say “oh I read this in the book last week, and it sounded cool in here, try this one,” like, I want you to know. And so for me, I call it focus 90. And so every 90 days, I have a different set of goals of things I need to work about, right. So, you know, come October 1, I will have my new set for October, November, December. But I will, I will review what just happened in the last three months and say, “okay, they may be different, they may be the same, but here’s what I need to work on to be better,” right. And then I have my first 90 minutes of every single day working on those things. And I find that when I can, when my mornings, Travis Thomas  45:46 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  45:46 I can win the day. But I can also help more people win their day, and help myself and others live a future greater than their past. And so Travis Thomas  45:54 Absolutely. Brett Gilliland  45:55 That’s for me, what works. So what is it for you now for that type of stuff? Travis Thomas  45:59 Yeah, I mean, you know, what you’re talking about is, is is walking the walk, and you know, you know, and you know, this as a parent, right? It’s, am I, am I modeling the behavior that I’m trying to parent? Right? It’s less important, what I say to my kids, what’s more important is how I actually how I actually behave and perform so. So someone who teaches mental skills, how often do my kids see me getting frustrated? And in displaying a victim mindset, right? They see plenty, right? So, so Wow, why why would I expect anyone to listen to me? Why would I expect my kids if so, there’s a there’s a clear sense of accountability every single day, with with my work. And so when I’m, when I’m, when I’m coaching, you know, world class athletes, when I’m working with a coaching staff, it’s like, okay, are we are we mentoring, the behaviors? Are we modeling the behaviors that we expect our players, our kids, our coworkers to model? And so like you said, you’re always you’re always focusing on the internal work, because it’s the internal work that allows us to do the external work. And if we’re not doing the internal work, we can’t expect the external work and having to grow at all. Brett Gilliland  47:15 Yeah. Travis Thomas  47:15 And so I love I love the 90 right? that it’s every 90 days, and then you’re giving yourself 90 minutes to do it every day, is just a great way and it keeps it fresh. And it keeps it you know, it keeps it always moving. Brett Gilliland  47:29 Well, you gotta like it. 90, 90 minute soccer game, right? Travis Thomas  47:31 Absolutely. Brett Gilliland  47:33 Let’s talk a little bit about your company. What you’ve created is Live Yes And. Yeah, I love that. Tell me more about it. Travis Thomas  47:40 So Yes And is the basis of improvisation, right. So I didn’t create Yes And but anyone who’s taken an acting class, anyone who’s done any improvisation, the first thing you learn is the Yes and the And so, I can teach anyone that I can teach you to improvise right now. Brett, right. So so you and I are going to we’ll tell the story. Brett Gilliland  48:00 Okay. Travis Thomas  48:01 Right? We’re going to pretend that we’re going on like some road trip this weekend. So whatever I say to you, the first thing you’re gonna say is yes. And you’re going to build off of whatever idea I gave you. And therefore you’re going to give me an idea back? And I’m going to say “yes and” and build off of whatever idea you give me. So we’re just–– Brett Gilliland  48:20 Getting the creative juices flowing here. Travis Thomas  48:21 We’re just creating the story one “yes and” at a time, right. And we’re only ever focusing on the new information that was given to us. Make sense? Brett Gilliland  48:30 Yes. Travis Thomas  48:30 Awesome. All right. Here we go. So Brett, man I’m so excited about the road trip we’re taking this weekend. Brett Gilliland  48:35 Yes. And I am too and I can’t wait because I’ve never been to this place before where we’ve played golf. Travis Thomas  48:41 Yes, you are going to take me on the best golf courses in the southeast. Brett Gilliland  48:46 In the southeast. I love the southeast. So yes, and and and so we’re going to go down to Florida and we’re going to play this place called the Floridian, which is a great golf course a lot of PGA members come to. Travis Thomas  48:56 Yes. And I heard that you’ve invited one of your professional friends that are going to join us. Brett Gilliland  49:01 I have and that friend is an amazing athlete and his name, he played for the St. Louis Cardinals, and he’s a great golfer, and we’re gonna have a lot of fun with him. Travis Thomas  49:10 Yes, and I am a huge Cardinals fan, as well. And while we’re down there, he’s gonna take us to some spring training games. Brett Gilliland  49:17 I love that. And so yes, let’s do that. And let’s also talk to him about getting back up to the end of the year. And we’ll see [] 800 home run or 700 home run. How’s that sound? Travis Thomas  49:27 Yes. And I heard he’s gonna put some tickets aside for us for all of St. Louis’s last home game so we can hopefully see 700. Brett Gilliland  49:34 Yes, and it’s going to be the actual tickets stub, but not this thing on your phone that you don’t get to keep for the rest of your life. And we’re going to sit in the green seats. We’re gonna have a lot of fun. Travis Thomas  49:42 Yes. And I know the the head concession guy in Busch Stadium and he’s going to hook us up with any concessions we want during the game. Brett Gilliland  49:49 I love that Yes. And I know the guy. Yes. Okay, so you just, you just keep going. Travis Thomas  49:53 There we go. So yes, and what does yes and mean from an improvisational standpoint? So you and I, you can improvise now because you can “yes and” that’s it. Right? So two or more performers get up on stage, we’re creating something. We have no idea where the story is gonna go. We can’t because I don’t know what you’re thinking you don’t know what I’m thinking. But as long as we adhere to “Yes, and” we’re gonna figure it out, we’re gonna go there together. So yes, is acceptance. Whatever I say to you, whatever you say to me the yes is yes, I accept that idea as reality. But we don’t stop there. The and is, and I’m going to build off of your idea with another idea. And then yes, and and then yes. And and yes. And so the story can absolutely go anywhere. Because we’re adhering to there is no wrong answer. There’s no wrong answer, right? We’re creating it on the spot, right? Hey, it’s never been done before. All right, as long as we “yes, and” we’re going to be on the same page. And we’re going to create it together. Right? So that’s improvisation and then any other performance that comes in, they’re going to “Yes, and” their ideas, and we’re going to get saying their ideas. And so from an improvisational standpoint, the reason like I go back to like, how did they do that? How did they create that magic on stage? Well, they were operating from a mindset of, we’re here to make each other look good. It’s actually an improv improviser’s mantra is my goal is to make my other performers look good. Yeah. What’s their goal? To make me look good? And so yes, and is is the rule, or the principle that allows that allows that to happen. Brett Gilliland  51:30 So makes me think about I’m having an off site retreat with our executive team and some of our other teammates tomorrow. And so, you know, I’ve got my black drawing here a bunch of questions, right to think about the future, I think what was the stat I wrote down this morning that in 1955, in 1955 435, of the Fortune 500 companies are gone. So 87% of the Fortune 500 companies are gone. Travis Thomas  51:56 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  51:56 From there. So so how are we staying relevant? Yeah, what are we doing to evolve? Because our industry will change? You look at Blockbuster versus Netflix, how do you how do you evolve or not evolve? And so when I hear this, “yes, and” being tomorrow, is an improv with our team. “Yes, yes, we can do that, and.” Travis Thomas  52:14 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  52:15 And yes, and then it’s almost going around the room, and seeing what we can create, inside our firm for our clients and for our advisors. Travis Thomas  52:23 Absolutely. So what you’re gonna do is you’re going to tap into the collective genius of the group. Yeah, “yes, and” allows you to tap into the collective genius of your team. But we only do that, Brett, if we are actually genuinely interested in the perspectives of the people that we work with, whether that’s our kids, whether that’s our coworkers, whether that’s our sports team. So “yes, and” allows us to say, “yes, I want I care about your perspective, your perspective is different than mine.” What do we tend to do when we run into someone who has a different perspective than us? Yeah, we tend to want to convince them that our perspective is better. Brett Gilliland  52:57 And you can’t stop. So tomorrow, there’s six people sitting around the table. Yeah, we can have the six people talking about it, and just go around the room. Again, a circle keeps going. Travis Thomas  53:05 And you can set parameters around this. So when I when I when I consult this from a, from a from a team or a corporate standpoint, people are like, “well, Travis, I mean, can’t say yes, and everything” as “I know you can’t, of course, this is not a literal, everyone’s idea is a good idea. Everyone’s idea is not a good idea. But the way you get to the good ideas is by getting through the bad ideas.” And actually, someone collaborating with a bad idea and turn it into a good idea because they’re bringing their perspective to it. Brett Gilliland  53:29 The creative side to right? The creative side, you maybe didn’t even think about it, but it’s not a formal deal. You wouldn’t even have thought about this. Travis Thomas  53:36 you know, growing up, right? Well, this is a Reese’s commercial. And we’re kids. Hey, you put your chocolate in my peanut butter. No, you put your peanut butter in my chocolate. Oh, wait, we put them together? We got a great even better product. It’s a yes, and right? Reese’s was “yes, and.’ Chocolate and peanut butter, put together we have a better thing. And so yes, and just allows what we’re talking about is we’re creating an atmosphere for collaboration. And “yes, and” creates an atmosphere for collaboration. Most of us are used to environments where everything is “no, but.” “Ah no, we’ve tried that before. And ah that’s going to be too expensive. I don’t think we can.” So all you’re doing is you’re creating a space to allow the freedom of ideas and information and creativity to happen from that space, you can then move into a critical, okay, well, based on the parameters that we do have, how do we take that? Okay, 90% of these ideas we can’t use but we’ve just mined 10% of gold that can actually we can take to move forward with and turn into really practical solutions. Brett Gilliland  54:38 I wrote that down to is the “yes, and” versus the living. Most people live in “no, but” cause you’re right! Travis Thomas  54:44 Yeah, it’s it’s, I’m uncomfortable when someone has a different perspective than me. That’s human nature. It’s survival. Right? If I go outside of the cave, and I hear a noise, I don’t know what that noise is. I go into fear I go into protection. I go into survival mode. So we’re we’re kind of conditioned to do, to be uncomfortable with someone else’s different ideas, anything different than us is uncomfortable. But if I’ve, if I can create a safe environment where I’m curious when I hear a different perspective, and because I care about you, as a teammate, or a coworker, I go “oh Brett, actually, I don’t know if I agree with that, or if I understand you helped me understand where you’re coming from.” And now we’re in now, in essence, where we’re actually building that trust and respect as a team. Because I actually care about your perspective that’s different than mine, and in the process of us getting into that we’re actually protecting ourselves from the blind spots that we have, when we sometimes accidentally create cultures of everyone who thinks the same way. Brett Gilliland  55:42 And my mind is blown on this, I’m already going on picture myself in the room, we’re going to be in tomorrow, and you can’t stop and nobody can challenge the idea. Travis Thomas  55:51 You can set that primary goal, “okay, for the next 15 minutes. Let’s get out as many ideas as possible.” One rule is, when someone has an idea, no one is allowed to say, “Whoa, no, no, no, this isn’t the space for that.” And then you can say after this, let’s look at the ideas and then we can start to look at it more critically. So you can create parameters around that. Brett Gilliland  56:11 Yeah, yeah. Travis Thomas  56:12 And this is go back to the “yes, and,” the “yes, and” from a, from a collaborative storytelling standpoint, that’s how it works. Right? We’re, we’re in agreement that we’re going to create this together. Well, the reason I called my consulting Live, Yes, And is because if you look back, if you look back to my journey, kind of from 2005, to be starting Live, Yes, And the Yes, And is, became my mantra for life. Right, which is whatever is happening I have to Yes, And it right. You’re in debt Travis? Yes, I’m in debt. And I guess I have to I guess we have to leave our home and go take this job in St. Louis, because this is the best possible response to the situation. So yes, it’s acceptance. Again, it’s acceptance of what is happening, hey–– Brett Gilliland  56:59 Good or bad. Travis Thomas  57:00 Good or bad? Good. Or it doesn’t matter. Right? Good or bad doesn’t matter. Yes, it’s acceptance. The so I tell people, we cannot control 100% of what happens to us, none of it, none of it. I can do everything right. And still get a pandemic dropped on my lap. I can do everything right. And still have someone come con me out of whatever, right I can, I can do everything right and eat everything right and still get diagnosed with a sickness. So I cannot control 100% of what happens to me. And I get to control 100% of how I respond to it. That’s the and. The and is where we have power. And so I, I go through life. Yes. And yes. And yes. And this is happening. Yes. And how would I respond to it if, I if I were on purpose is so if we go back to purpose being our compass, if we’re always making every next right step, neutral thinking I’ve worked for limitless minds as well. We talked about neutral thinking and then taking the next right step. If I accept everything that’s happening, well, now I’m, I’m in collaboration with reality, so I call living Yes, And being in radical collaboration with reality. Right? Because it’s what’s happening, right? So I can, I can complain about it. Blame, complain, make excuses, the longer I stay there, I’m just stuck. Totally valid. Yep. Yep, I’m a human. This shouldn’t have happened. Why did it happened? This is unfair. This is painful. This is tragic. This is cruel. Yeah, all that stuff. And the longer I stay there, I’m just stuck. And as soon as I accept my circumstance, and have my response be from that position of purpose, I’m now taking that next step towards problem solving. So the reason my book is called “Three Words for Getting Unstuck,” is is to live that Yes, And getting stuck makes you human. Staying stuck, makes you a victim. Brett Gilliland  59:05 And I love the fact that you put live in it. It’s not just “Yes, and” because you got to live it. Travis Thomas  59:10 I gotta live it right. And so yeah, you know, the gift, the gift and everything is, to your point earlier, what is my street cred is? Yeah, Travis tell me about being like, you know, 30, 40, $50,000 in debt with a family of five and, and having no godly idea of how things were going to work out. How to do that. Oh, yeah, that’s a good question. How did I do that? I don’t know. But it was like, What can I do today? What can I do today, trust to action. Take the next step. Trust, faith, take the next step. Brett Gilliland  59:46 So  where do our listeners find more of Travis Thomas? Man, this has been phenomenal and got tons of takeaways from this but where are we find more of you? Travis Thomas  59:54 You can go to by my outdated website, which is liveyesand.com You can find me on most social media @liveyesand this is a fun thing. My son my 15 year old son, I’ve got a 17 year old son 20 year old daughter. They’ve been trying to get me on Tik Tok forever. I’ve been I’m like, I can’t learn another social media. I’m on Instagram all the time. I don’t want to learn another social media. My son’s like, “Dad, look at this guy. You should be on Tik Tok.” I said, “Alright, listen.” His name’s Shepherd. “I was like Shepherd, if you manage the Tik Tok, you’ll be my intern. You manage tick tock and I’ll do it.” So I’ve been on tick tock for a week. Apparently some of the videos do a really well. So he’s like, “Alright, give me a video on this.” He films me. He takes it so I’m gonna I’m on Tik Tok now. Brett Gilliland  1:00:35 You’re a Tik Toker. Travis Thomas  1:00:38 And then my book that I’ve referenced a few times, “Three Words for Getting Unstuck: Live Yes And” is on Amazon. Brett Gilliland  1:00:43 Well, Travis Thomas it’s been awesome having you man. We’ll put all this in the show notes where people can find it and just love the conversation. We’ll have to do this again. Travis Thomas  1:00:50 Hey, thanks for having me. I’ll come back to the studio any time Brett. Brett Gilliland  1:00:52 Let’s do it.

Joining The Circuit of Success for a second time since October of 2021, Marty Strong is back again to continue sharing his wisdom behind perfecting business processes and embracing the dreamer within. Marty is a retired Navy SEAL officer and combat veteran, as well as a novelist, practicing CEO, and Chief Strategy Officer. He authored Be Nimble: How the Creative Navy SEAL Mindset Wins on the Battlefield and in Business. His second book, Be Visionary: Strategic Leadership in the Age of Optimization is set for release in January 2023. Marty’s newest book applies his life experiences, formal education, and hands-on knowledge to demonstrate how proactive thinking and the application of thoughtful vision is the essence of exceptional leadership. EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION Brett Gilliland  00:02 Welcome to the Circle of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got a repeat guest. So we don’t, we don’t do that too often, Marty. So that was a lot of fun last time back in, aired October 4, 2021. We have Marty Strong with us. Marty, how’re you doing today? Marty Strong  00:19 Doing pretty good, Brett. Brett Gilliland  00:20 Good, well it’s good to be with you and you know what I’m fired up about today is we’re going to talk about this new book you got coming out here. It’s called “Be Visionary,” and so when you gotta name Visionary Wealth Advisors of your company, and you got a guy with a book called “Be Visionary,” it’s just made as a recipe for success today isn’t it? Marty Strong  00:39 Yeah, it’s like a marriage. Think of matchmaking, matchmaking in heaven! Brett Gilliland  00:43 That’s right, right here today on The Circuit of Success. Well, those people that did not get to dial in in October of 2021, last time we spoke, Marty is a retired Navy SEAL officer and combat veteran. He’s a novelist, a practicing CEO, a chief strategy officer, you’ve got your other book “Be Nimble,” how the creative Navy SEAL mindset wins on the battlefield and in business. And in this book, as we just mentioned, “Be Visionary: Strategic Leadership in the Age of Optimization” is coming out January of 2023. I know you’re a thought leader, and you’re talking all over the world and doing things and helping tons of people. So thanks for being with us. But if you could maybe just give us again, a little background who Marty Strong is, and what continues to make you the man you are today. Marty Strong  01:31 Okay, well, I’m from the humble state of Nebraska. My parents were, I guess, farm kids, for the most part, my dad was definitely a depression era farm, farm kid, large family, etc. So they had a, they both had a very, very strong work ethic, a real blue collar approach, even though my dad ended up getting a degree later on, and eventually spending 30 years working for the government thing, he was the deputy director of Walter Reed, when he retired, he never, you know, he never left that early part of his life. And that’s what he imparted to me, my brothers and sisters, this kind of, you know, return the tool in better condition than you borrowed it, you know, be polite, a lot of the Golden Rule kind of application, but very strictly applied, and take care of things that you’ve been given and appreciate the people that are helping you and the people around you. So that essentially was my value system. And that’s what I walked into the Navy in the mid 70s with and kind of stumbled into the SEAL team selection process, and ended up spending 20 years in that business, so that, in that role. Brett Gilliland  02:44 Traveled the world chasing bad guys in that role, man, and appreciate and thankful for your service, you guys are amazing at what you do. So we can talk about a lot of stuff today, but one of the things I want to talk about when we spoke, you know, almost a year ago, the world was still, you know, somewhat shut down, obviously was kind of opening back up. But what have you seen now and all the leaders that you’re helping, but also the companies that you’re running? What have you been seeing as the biggest difference today, now that the world, you know, basically is back up and running and making things happen? Marty Strong  03:18 Well, I think there’s, there’s two kinds of disruption that occurred with a pandemic and by all definitions, the pandemic was a black swan, nobody, there are people paid to anticipate epidemics and pandemics, but nobody really anticipated this particular one. And it’s not so much that it was because of the virus, the way a virus was spread, or the medical aspects of it. It was the political and governmental aspects of it. Brett Gilliland  03:43 Yeah. Marty Strong  03:43 We’ve never really had a either an epidemic or a pandemic, where our governments both state, local and federal, just started shutting things down and shutting people down and shutting movement in commerce down. And then it wasn’t consistent because of the way the states are laid out, politically, it wasn’t consistent across the whole country. So if you’re a CEO, like I am, and I’ve got one country, one company that’s in 21 different states, and Japan and other companies in seven states, you had this kind of topsy turvy, you know, reaction to COVID. And to each state’s rules, whether they’re very stringent or very, very loose. And we thought we were pretty stable, we were still growing in both companies through ’21, which we kind of pat ourselves on the back a bit, able to hold it all together and still grow a little bit. But then the vax mandate came out September 16 of ’21, and the mandate applied to all government employees, all military, all government contracting employees and companies, and all health care workers. Well, I manage a government contracting company and a health care company. So we were a little bit too soon on that patting of have our backs because suddenly I found out that about half of my entire, about 1000 people population were not vaccinated. And about 40% basically told us when we’re not gonna get vaccinated. Brett Gilliland  05:13 Yeah. Marty Strong  05:14 So and so that was, that was my real kind of black swan event inside of the bigger black swan event because everything up to that point we had figured out we’d managed we’d retooled, reshaped, restructure, re-envisioned the companies we were doing business, I sent everybody home in March of 2020, and I’ve only got about 16 people out of 58 that were in the main office managing these companies now, I shrunk down from 21,000 square feet of office space, and a couple locations down to 6,800. Embraced all that, right, change, move, do all those things I write about, and then all of a sudden, there’s this decision that everybody has to have a vaccine or else they can’t work. And so that really created a crisis for us there in in September. So, and again, every state, and a lot of our government, and government agencies and the department of defense, they all kind of reacted either very aggressively about the new rule, or said, “Don’t worry about it.” So it was it was all over the place. And in the healthcare side, there wasn’t actually a deadline expressed. So the whole healthcare market was going well, “do we have to everybody backed by tomorrow, by next week, 10 days, 20 days next year?” Yeah, it was, it was a mess. And that was the biggest, so far, the biggest impact to COVID the pandemic on the business, because everything else that’s happened, it really has either been a positive or neutral to the two businesses. Brett Gilliland  06:39 You know, it’s pretty hard to go out and replace 40% of your workforce, isn’t it? I mean, my gosh. Marty Strong  06:46 It is and they had security clearances, so that’s difficult to find those people and they had some very unique skills that the government wanted, you know, and certain credentials are going to be trainers certified by this agency, or that agency or particular program. So yeah, you couldn’t just go out there and find them all on the street. You know, the second part, which I think is hitting everybody, and this is kind of the 2022 impact is the staffing crisis. In that we always had good retention in both companies, and I talked about this with my board members, I talk about this with other business owners all the time. You know, the, the everybody’s kind of pointed the great resignation, alright, that’s the reason for it. And everybody’s still trying to get a handle on exactly what’s going on, I’ve heard that the baby boomers all started retiring around the same time as the pandemic and, and there was an accelerated advancement of the next generation, which left a big hole in the middle, and nobody’s qualified for those jobs and all kinds of crazy theories. But in reality, our, our experience has been, if you’re looking for good people, you’re gonna have to pay them what they’re worth and their worth is based on the market availability now. So those dynamics have changed because of the second kind of parallel event next to the pandemic. And I’m not sure it’s directly associated with just with the pandemic, I think the pandemic is one of those things like, like a revolution, where revolution changes the entire social fabric of the nation and just changes everything, suddenly everybody can own something where before only the king could own something, those kinds of really, you know, huge sea changes, right? I think the pandemic changed the way labor is going to be utilized in this country, and maybe around the world, depending on what, how countries address it. But so we’re still trying to get our hands on that. Brett Gilliland  08:39 Yeah. And so I mean, what what do you see? I mean, as a leader of organizations, and you know, as an author, you’re writing great books. I mean, what, what do you see for us, other leaders and the people listening this podcast? I mean, what do you see? What do you forecast 1, 2, 3 years from now you see any big changes out there? Marty Strong  08:54 Well I think you’re gonna end up with three different ways to, to do work. You’re gonna have traditional labor structures, like we’ve had for the last, say, 75 years, most of that is going to be related to the way the job has to be executed. So, if you have factory jobs, it’s very hard to do that from home. You can’t do that through a Cloud Function. Right? If you need like, say medicine, sure, there’s some remote medicine capabilities. I had a DaVinci surgery for kidney cancer and the doctor was in some other room, there’s just some robot working on me. But for the most part, you have to have people hands on patients, right. So that’s an area. The second category is a complete detachment untethering from a place of work, that’s virtual work and 100% of its definition, where not only is the work itself, modulated and, and self directed, but the pace of that work and the use of that day is up to the individual. If they want to work from two o’clock in the morning until six o’clock in the morning, take the rest of day off, they can do it as long as they check the boxes and execute. And then the third one’s a hybrid, something where you see a little bit of a mix of the virtual and a little bit of mix of the traditional. It’s all this has been enabled by the technology that provided these cloud based platforms for just about everything, I mean, you can, you can 3D design things now you don’t really need to have, you know, the factory sitting there for a lot of things and that’s, that’s only going to get more and more dramatic as the technology advances. Accounting, you know, we’re before we had to try to push all the accounting files, payroll files, through a, an internet server well now through cloud based things, you can go into the cloud and manipulate it and move it around up there and then move it from one cloud location to the other without worrying about the size of your, of your IT pipe in the building, etc. or at your house. Yeah, so those are those all kind of came in, in parallel with the pandemic. And also in parallel with this. The shock is this impact, the tonic shift in the way people looked at their work, and the way they looked at working for somebody else. Brett Gilliland  09:11 So um, a different kind of question is the positive impact. You talked about flexibility, creativity, and decisiveness to achieve results, you know, in this book, and so, so talk to us about that. Let’s start with flexibility first. What is the positive impact of applying flexibility? Marty Strong  11:23 Well, you know, the opposite of being rigid. So, there are high speed, supersonic reconnaissance aircraft, and we’ve had these since the early 1960s, that go up into the atmosphere and move it in incredible rates of speed, they actually have materials and they have the capability to expand and contract because of the different atmospheres they are going into. If you’ve had a rigid aircraft, they basically shake themselves apart and destroy themselves. With coop, because of the stresses that are under, they’re going under, at the same thing with almost anything you look at, it could be an individual, it could be the organization, it could be a particular team to a particular. So if you don’t have flexibility, you’re not going to be open to any insight, you’re not going to be open to anything new. If you’re, if you’re doing the same process and using the same systems that you used last year, you know, you could do an exercise here. Just ask, well, when when was that system put in place? And when was that process put in place? And it’s almost like a time travel thing. You go back and go, “Well, what was happening in my market, what was happening to our company?” What kind of people did we have at that time, and you’ll find them in most cases, the process and systems unless they’re dramatically challenged, stay for a long time. And they they go from being habits to traditions. And when you have a tradition, in a room of people that have been living that tradition, it’s very, very difficult to think a different way. It’s very difficult to be flexible. Brett Gilliland  12:54 Yeah, that’s a good point, too. We do we get stuck in our little rut don’t we? Marty Strong  12:58 Well, we yeah. First, first we either dig the rut ourselves and lay down in it, or somebody else dug it for us and we lay down on it, because we’re told to and then we just stay in it. You know, we don’t look up over the edge of the road. We don’t, we don’t do anything, but just follow rules and follow directions. Brett Gilliland  13:14 Yeah. Marty Strong  13:14 So flexibility is very important component to the vision and nimble leadership. Brett Gilliland  13:20 Yeah, I think too, like we’re going, I think it’s in two weeks, I can’t remember the exact date, but I’m taking, you know, our executive leadership team, we’re all going out to an off site retreat. And you know, we’ll spend the whole day going through processes platform, you know, what the vision looks like, whether that’s 90 days from now, or three years from now, or 10 years from now. And I think that’s a really, really critical step for a leader, don’t you think? To get off, out of the office with the team slow down, so you can speed up and be flexible and learn from the things that are going really well, and the things that maybe are not going as well, that you want to improve or add to. Marty Strong 13:58 It’s a great idea, and you’re probably in the top half of 1% of companies that do something like that. For some reason, you see it movies and TV, and you just think, well, they’re all taking these big retreats, and they’re all having these big, you know, strategic sessions and all that but very few companies do it, very few organizations of any kind, profit or nonprofit do such a thing. And I even go a step further. I, I tell everybody, I write about it. Take 20 minutes every day, every morning. And just clear your mind and envision, you know, the horizon? What do I want to be personally and professionally in two years kind of vision. What, take a moment and envision what will I look like? How much money will I make? What house will I live in? All those kinds of things, and then shift to the organization if you’re responsible as a leader in your organization, where you want the organization to look like? What do you want the alliances to look like? What do you want them to be making or doing as a service or product? If you do that every morning for about 20 minutes, it doesn’t take a lot, you don’t have to meditate to do it. You’re just gonna sit there and you think. What you’re basically doing is you’re taking the short, the short range, very short range in some people’s cases, optimizing checklist or KPI checklist, and which is a to-do list of sorts. And you’re getting it out of your head for a moment to think beyond that. Because if you don’t do something like that, and you’re not in one of the organizations like yours that does this type of retreat, what you end up doing is you end up running down this railroad track, incrementally taking little tiny steps, looking at the tips of your toes, until you get hit by the train that you didn’t see coming, because you never looked up. So yeah, I think it’s a very important thing to do. Brett Gilliland  15:38 Yeah, it’s shocking to me that you say that half of 1%, or whatever the number you said, and it just it is shocking to hear it. But also, it’s shocking to know that a lot of people don’t do that. So somebody’s listening right now, you’re a leader of a big company, a little company, your house, I don’t care what it is, have an off site retreat, you know? I used to do them, I need to do it more often. But we do it quarterly as a firm, but I used to do one, then also personally, I would go off by myself and just think about what are the things that we need to do or I want to do, right? And then have those conversations with my wife about that stuff. And I think that’s again, that’s really really important, no matter what you’re leading, to sit down, just you a journal and in a, in an ink pen and think and strategize and dream, right? Marty Strong  16:23 Yeah, I think the first two chapters of “Be Visionary” focus on this is more of a, your personal attention to the art of the possible, to dreaming. How often do you dream, I mean, I’m talking waking dreaming, often do you dream about a potential future? And when you start thinking about those things, you start to structure a little bit. You say alright, what I’m looking for is I’m looking for threats on the horizon, competitive threats or any other kind of threat can be a supply chain threat or something, and you’re also looking for opportunities. And it’s, it’s part of human nature, that it’s easier to see or conceive of the threat side of the equation. It’s very difficult, if I talked to people it’s very difficult for them to envision the opportunity, yet, the opportunities are critical and some of them you have to deviate or pivot from where you are now, over the course of the time between now and when you need to do this or see that opportunity. Which means you have to have a 24-month action plan–– Brett Gilliland  17:23 Right. Marty Strong  17:23 ––right to shift or whether it’s a new service line, subsidiary company an acquisition, whatever it is that you want to do to get there and, and then you have to, it’s a little bit of a leap of faith, there’s not much of a leap of faith in recognizing a threat. And there’s not much of a difficulty in telling your peers or your subordinate leadership team, you bring them in a room and say, “Hey, there’s a train coming down the track it’s going to hit us in 20 minutes.” Nobody in the room is going to argue with you about getting off the tracks. They all get it right, right? Instinctively “Oh, yeah. Well, that’s bad, what’s, what’s our plan?” You know, but if you come in and say, “Hey, I think we should buy a company that provides this special titanium part two trains.” And then you just get, you’re gonna get a bunch of blank stares, because they can’t wrap their hands around the value of it. And “why are we talking about titanium parts for trains, we don’t do trains?” Well, we do parts and other in other ways we do Dd printing, and guess what we could maybe 3D print something and take the place of a titanic composite type part, replacing it anyway, you get the point. Very, very difficult. One, for a person or a leader to go through that exercise and see both the positive and the and the negative of the future. Very, very difficult for anybody to sell the positive for the future, because people tend to lean towards risk mitigation. Brett Gilliland  18:39 So we talked about the flexibility side of that now talking about the creativity side, to achieve results. Why is that so important? Marty Strong  18:45 So I believe in basically three phases. And I think this is something you have to do as a lifestyle as a leadership style, and you have to do it long enough and frequently enough to make it a habit not just when there’s an emergency or, or something out of the out of the ordinary happening. So the first step is, you have to be humble, you have to achieve intellectual humility. And what that means is you have to basically forget all the victories and all the defeats that are clouding your mind, clouding your judgment, which includes all the formulas that you’ve used in the past all the things you’ve leaned on in the past, because if you don’t do that, you can’t have the second phase, the second phase won’t open up. That’s intellectual curiosity. So intellectual curiosity is the willingness with an open mind to seek information, insights, ideas, recommendations, not only from your own people, but maybe from people that don’t agree with you people outside of your organization, and, and contemplate all of that, bring all that in. To get into third phase, which is intellectual creativity. I don’t think you can truly be creative unless you’ve gone through the first two phases. What you’re basically doing is you’re saying, I’m going to apply what I know from what I’ve done in the past, or what I’ve learned in the past and college or what some guy taught me four years ago. Was it mentor, and I’m gonna say that’s the way we solve all problems. You know, it’s like the world’s a nail. And I know how to swing a hammer kind of hammer. Yeah, but But you have to do that as a regular way, as a leader, a regular way, a regular way of addressing challenges large and small. And like the 20 minute a day thing, it starts to become a habit, it starts to become a part of the way you think. And between those two, I think you’ll end up finding that you’ll be a lot more curious. Almost all the time, you’ll be seeking information and insights from a lot of different sources all the time. And that’s so you’re already kind of preset for the creativity phase. Brett Gilliland  20:38 And then when, the last one we talked about was decisiveness. So decisiveness I mean, clearly we know we got to be able to make decisions as a leader. But when you talk about in that realm of choosing that word, decisiveness, why’d you choose that? Marty Strong  20:53 Well, there’s two reasons. One, I come from my pedigree as a seal, the SEAL teams in the SEAL teams, and I just had a conversation on the day about this, the perception is that anybody in the military is doing whatever you saw in a World War II movie with your, with your parents or something, they’re following orders, they’re being ordered to do things they don’t want to do, their grumbling, and they contribute when they have to, but they’d rather be sleeping someplace else, you know, so you, nobody’s really making decisions below the officer level, because that’s all they’re supposed to do is follow orders. And the SEAL teams is not like that. And the SEAL teams, it’s much more like, like a band trying to put together music and lyrics, it’s so much more like a group of creatives trying to come up with a, an ad campaign related to an artistic approach to expressing something that needs to be expressed in the ad. So what you do, is you come into a room and you have all these experts, maybe anywhere from 16 to 20 guys, all experts in their little niche areas, all experienced seals, and ranging from people that have been in for two years, to people who might have been in for 20 years. So huge, huge repository of, and wealth of experience. The way you go in there to solve a problem say it’s mission planning, is you don’t go in there and say we’ve been asked to to go to this town, find this guy, and capture this guy, and bring him back for, you know, intelligence collection purposes. And this is how we’re going to do it, you lay it out and everybody goes, roger that sir. And they just walk out of the room and everyone’s gonna follow the Marty Plan. Brett Gilliland  22:26 Yeah. Marty Strong  22:27 It doesn’t work that way, you go in there, and you kind of set the stage for what the requirements are. And then there is a planning process as far as phases, but what’s going to happen in those phases, how are you going to get in how you’re going to get out how we’re going to move from phase one to phase two, as a wildcard brainstorming session, and it goes on for as much time as you’re allowed, based on the mission timeline. But at some point, as the officer facilitating all this input, and kind of galvanizing all these ideas and thoughts into actual planning points, you either run out of time, or you get to a point, were you just have to say pencils down. This is it, this is what we’re gonna go do. We’re gonna rehearse this, we’re gonna brief this, and then we’re gonna go execute this. So at some point, you have to make a decision, you can’t just analyze it to death, and you can’t, you know, the other, the other enemy of that which we never had in the SEAL teams, which is you don’t compromise. If one guy says we should run fast, and the other person says we should crawl slow, you don’t go, what we’re going to do is we’re going to walk at a moderate pace. None of that splitting the difference stuff makes any sense when you’re trying to get to an actual excellent outcome. So in business, you end up especially in the way, leadership and management, not so much leadership, ;eadership isn’t really taught in schools anymore, or if it ever was, but in management in the management business schools, what they teach is consensus building, compromise, crowdsourcing decisions, and you get this whole crowd coming off of this now for the last 10 years. And essentially, what it really is, it’s a way to diversify accountability so that nobody’s accountable if everybody’s accountable. That’s one kind of outcome of it. And the second thing is, when you end up with this kind of compromise, you end up with something that’s less than excellent. And if you look at anything that’s considered excellent in history, you’ll find somebody like Steve Jobs or somebody that said, “this is what we’re going after. I don’t care how you get there, your job’s to build it, this is what we’re going after.” He didn’t say, “Okay, I don’t want I don’t want a phone. You’re right. The phone’s not gonna be this big. Let’s make the phone as big as a, you know, a basketball shoe. Because you’ve gotten because you four guys disagree with me. I’m gonna go with that to make everybody feel comfortable and happy and feel like they had input.” That’s not the way excellence is achieved. So at some point, somebody’s got to be accountable, and that accountable person has to make a decision, which is decisiveness. You don’t have to be a brute. You don’t have to be a tyrant or dictator. There’s a way to do the process like I described in the SEAL teams, and you can do that in business and you’ll get better results. Brett Gilliland  25:12 Yeah, I think too, is, you know, you mentioned Steve Jobs. I mean, so there’s a guy that right that has created so many different industries, whether it’s phone, it’s movies, it’s, you know, how we listen to music, I mean, all sorts of stuff, right? Incredible. And I don’t know if it’s in your book, or if it was a different book I was reading this morning, but it talks about if he asked the people in the early 1900s, like what they wanted, they wanted, you know, a faster horse. Right? But the Model T Ford, right? Henry Ford wanted cars, he was talking about things that people didn’t even know they wanted, they wouldn’t even of articulated “I want an automobile” because they wouldn’t do it, so how do we do that, as leaders of organizations? Now, I’m not thinking about going and creating a new car, whatever the new automobile was or with at that time, but how do we get creative enough to start to think about how do I change my industry? How do I change this thing that I’ve been doing for so long, in the same way. Marty Strong  26:09 So I think you don’t have to take a leap of faith. You don’t have to leapfrog current reality completely. And there’s a reason for that. I mean, it took the phonograph, the TV, the automobile, decades to be adapted in a massive way, right and become an industry and all that. Now, technology moves at a much faster speed, shelf life is much shorter nowadays. But still, if you invent something that nobody needs, the second part of this is trying to get people to realize they need it. Brett Gilliland  26:39 That’s hard to do. Marty Strong  26:39 So that’s, yeah, that’s marketing, right? Create, create an awareness of something you have as a shortfall that this thing fills. And if you do that, you better be someplace in a well funded research center or something, because you’re not gonna be able to run a business for very long on just an idea and a sketch so. So I think you have to do it in in increments, in baby steps, but those baby steps could be 12 months out, mostly, as you know, in the entrepreneurial world, it’s innovation and not invention. Invention is something that’s completely new. And I would say the car was completely different than having an animal pulling, you know, a box with some wheels on it. But innovation happens every day. Innovation is something every company can do. And you can do it in, in services, you can do it in the way you design your organization, the way you communicate with customers or clients, the way you analyze your competition, there’s there’s an opportunity 360 degrees, seven days a week, to look for where ways that you can innovate and look for adjacent openings and opportunities to what you’re doing currently. Yeah, and so what, I’m always fascinated by this with people and leaders and you know, you’re a busy guy, you’re chasing your was it four companies that you run and all the stuff you’re doing so what is it that if I followed you around with a camera every single day that I would see no-miss items, for you Marty Strong for you, personally? You saying what am I falling short on? Brett Gilliland  28:20 No, no, I mean like, the no-miss items that would be like, “hey, this helps me be successful.” Yeah, just if I should, if I run around to work, you gotta, you know, respond to some emails, you gotta have some meetings. Those are the things that like, what are the things that you’re just your habits man, your, your traditions, your daily disciplines are that I will see time and time again with Marty. Marty Strong  28:39 The first thing is, like, get up at five in the morning. Brett Gilliland  28:42 Okay. Marty Strong  28:43 This isn’t, this isn’t, you know, ground a groundbreaking or shake, shaking kind of an idea. Lots of people do. It turns out a lot of successful people do it. I didn’t know that, I saw an article not too long ago, and they were listing all these different successful CEOs, a lot of athletes, a lot of people get up at five in the morning. One of the reasons is I can do that 20 minute exercise I told you about. And I do that 20 minute exercise and I’ve got to cover all these different companies, I have to cover my own consulting and my own books. And today, I got to look at what are we going to do next? But I want to write a third business book. Do I want to write a 10th novel? Do I not want to do any of those things? Do I want to write treatments and turn some of the novels into pitches for, for movies or for streaming content? Or do I not want to do that? These are, this is what I do early in the morning. I’m usually sitting right where I am right now, by about 5:20 with a cup of coffee. And I think through all those things and as ideas and and, and insights and and points pop into my head, I write them down. And I have a dry erase board over my shoulder. You can’t see and it’s covered with ideas. One sides got a one idea exploded out and pretty big in a kind of a big aspect, but I do that every morning and sometimes I’m reviewing what I did the day before, and some of these dreams kind of fall apart when I start throwing some real reality checks against them. So I’m pretty much–– Brett Gilliland  30:07 Can I interrupt you real quick there? So we can dive into that process. So you’re sitting in that chair right there. And you’re literally just kind of sitting there and like, whatever comes to your mind, or do you have like a journal that you’ve gone through? Or is it like, literally just kind of comes out, whatever comes out, you write it down, and then you? Marty Strong  30:21 I change channels. So I start off with my responsibilities as a CEO and the board, the board relationship communications. And I spend probably about four or five minutes thinking through that, what can I do proactively, what can I, what can I do that will improve things? How do I want this to be better, and two months or six months, and then I shipped the channel to the government contracting company, kind of do the same thing. And then to do the same thing with a healthcare company, and then I then I shipped them, the last thing I do is I shifted my own my own business. And depending on where we are on the two operating businesses, I may spend more than five minutes on one or the other, because we may be in a moment of crisis or opportunity. And so that’s what I do. And that’s just I write the thoughts down, I don’t try to flesh them all out. Sometimes I just write a word because it’ll trigger it later. And then I get into, once I’ve done all that, so now it’s about a quarter to six. And then I spend about 30, to 40 minutes doing marketing things related to the books, things related to social media, and then I get a second cup of coffee and I open up all the emails related to my day job. And I started going through all of them, make sure that I responded to the ones that were supposed to respond to, make sure I read all the content that I’m supposed to read files attached, etc. And that kind of takes me to about 7:15 ish. And then I take a break, and I sit down with my wife, and we just talk and sometimes we watch something we record on TV for about 45 minutes, then I shower and I’m in the office by 830. So once I get in the office, and anybody that’s leading a company, who’s not actually doing the work of the company themselves, and you’re actually the salesperson or the service provider, and deliver, I found that if you can do get all your stuff ahead, you get ahead of yourself there in the morning, you walk in there, because somebody’s gonna walk up and crush your great idea what your day was gonna look like, they’re gonna come up and say, “Hey, so and so just quit,” or “hey, so and so just, you know, fell and hurt their ankle out here, do we have medical insurance?” Something’s gonna happen. Brett Gilliland  32:34 Yep. Marty Strong  32:35 And sometimes they just want to tell me and I have people that have the authority to do something about it, and we have processes for them to follow. But sometimes they’ll come up and say something that I have, I’m the only one that has the authority to do anything about it. And I might spend that entire day from the point that I have this put on my lap, focusing on fixing that, that challenge. And eventually the day ends, and it may or may not be completed, and the next day, when I walked in the office at 8:30, I have to keep attacking that plus, be free to hear any other things that pop up. So it’s pretty much because we have people in in Japan, we have people that do training down in central South America, because of time zones and everything else, you’re pretty much 24/7, days a week, 365 days, but you’re the way I’ve done it, I’m in more of a casual, comfortable, reactionary mode, in general. And if I have one or two things I want to do proactively, I’ll work on them. But I always know, Murphy or something is going to drop in and disrupt me. And I’m okay with that now. Brett Gilliland  33:41 I talked about that with your attitude. We wake up, we choose it every single day, if we have a great attitude, then your belief system comes in, but between those two things, there’s a thing called rejection, right? It’s just what you talked about. Something happened with this employee or that client or whatever it may be that, that rejection is really trying to drive you away. And have you ever been in a bad attitude, which then in my opinion, that’s where your belief systems come in, right? And our history tells us that if I believe in these things, then I can deal with the rejection. And so now it’s how fast I call it bounce back theory, how fast can I bounce back from that rejection? And I’m sure you’d agree with me on this is that the people that bounce back the quickest, are the most successful people in the world. The ones that want to go home and pout about it and you know, sit in the fetal position in the corner office and cry. It’s going to take them longer to rebound and they’re gonna wonder why, right? Marty Strong  34:33 You have to, you have to create your own resilience. And you also you know, the habits and the behaviors kind of converge to become a discipline system. So just like you don’t want to have something derail you emotionally, or intellectually and emotionally during the day. You want to get get back on your get back on your game. The other thing is, you don’t want to have a crisis or a problem. Suck you down into a rabbit hole, bbecause what will happen is if you allow yourself to get sucked in and stay in there, you completely forget about the future. You’ve, I mean, next week, even as a future, you start getting into this really hyper problem-solving mode. And anybody is in charge, or anybody owns a company, or anybody is a leader of a division or anything like that. You, you are there because you’re good at solving problems. But sometimes you you get to a point where you’re really not supposed to be the person solving the problems, not all the problems, there’s like four problems a year, you’re supposed to really be the one to solve. The way you solve problems is you make sure that the people that you’ve hired, the people that are being trained, the systems, the processes and everything are in place, that problem solving is happening all the time. And the other 96% of the stuff you’re not touching is on track. That’s what you have to do as a leader. That’s what you have to set up as a leader. And I right in in, I think be nimble about, you don’t want to be the arsonist that sets, sets the fire through all if they’re not doing any of those things, that then when the panic happens, you jump in, like a firefighter, you know, and you save the day, because you’re so talented, you’ve got 10 years of doing this kind of thing, even though you’re up here not supposed to be doing this kind of thing. And you’re giving orders you’re running around every goes “ooh, ah, he was so good. He was so poised. She was incredible. What a great leader, she’s so sweet. She’s so special.” You know, and then you walk out doing the hand wave. But I’ve been around organizations, and I’ve had people working for me that I’ve sat them down, you don’t have to third, fourth time I’ve heard this heroic, this heroic saga from somebody and I will, “tell me what happened.” And then eventually I get into this whole six sigma, causal analysis, it turns out their lack of the fact they didn’t build structure, improve the quality of their team, continued and sustained training, testing and make sure that they’re validate their systems or processes for, for stress, a stress test of those things, is automatically generating a crisis every so often that he jumps in and takes powers for, or she does. So. Yeah, there’s a lot of things you got to do and maintain the discipline. You wanted to get sucked in you gotta pull, a military that’s a general rule of junior officers, a junior officer feel like, “well, I gotta get in there. The wheel just kind of came off the truck, I’m gonna go over there and help pull the wheel off the truck,” not your job. Brett Gilliland  37:21 Yeah. So I’m gonna, I’ll ask you a question. I’ll lead with what I’m asking this for and what my word is, because it may be a difficult question to answer. But if I said you had to pick one word, like, there’s this one word that means something to you, what would that be for you because for me, the word is choice. Like I’m a huge believer, in the word choice, that we have so much choice in what we do, right? The choice of our attitude, choice of doing things, even when you don’t want to do it, you still got to show up and do it. Right, the choice of who we spend our time with the choice or the actions that we take every single day. I think we choose our results. And I could go on and on and on about these choices and all the things that we do. So what’s that word for you? And why? Marty Strong  38:09 Commitment. I think commitment is a good word that wraps in a lot of what we’ve already been talking about. If you are a committed person, and you’re exercising commitment, and all that you do, you have a disciplined system, you’ve got good habits, you’ve got behaviors that are there are creative and positive and appropriate. You are probably like, like a person trying to swim against the tide. You’re running into resistance, you’re running into friction. Everybody does. But you don’t complain about it, you don’t stop because of it. Because if you’re a committed person, if you’re if you have commitment, you basically say, “Well, I’m just not gonna get to where I’m going as fast as I thought I was because of this current.” And, and that, to me is an incredibly important approach to life. If you’re gonna be a parent, if you’re going to be a husband or a wife, if you’re going to be a coworker, if you’re going to be a volunteer, I think those people that are truly committed are those people that change the world. Brett Gilliland  39:18 Yeah, that’s a huge that is a great word. And I think I’m gonna butcher this quote, but I read it somewhere is, commitment is when it’s still a commitment, even though the feelings you had when you made it a commitment are gone, you still go out and do it. Right, if that makes any sense. I’m paraphrasing there, but it’s true, right? Because we can be all fired up in the moment and I’m going to commit to this and then you’re the battle cry for it and then, you know, a day later you’re like, “oh, man, that’s tougher than I thought, but I was so fired up.” Yeah. But when it stays a commitment, that’s when it’s truly we’re gonna go out and make an impact and to your point, change the world. Marty Strong  39:52 It’s kind of like that, the quote about character, you know, character is what you do when nobody’s looking. Brett Gilliland  39:58 Yeah. Marty Strong  39:59 I think commitments that way too. Brett Gilliland  40:01 Yep. Marty Strong  40:02 It happens between your ears. It was something I witnessed in, in SEAL training. A little bit, don’t remember much of it when I was actually a student, but when I went back as an instructor and ran hell weeks in the selection process, you could see, you can physically, physically see a difference in somebody’s eyes, the committed versus the not committed. And then once they went from not committed to, “I just don’t want to be here at all,” there was a whole different look. And sometimes they’d be in the middle and they’d get back to committed but yeah, the ones that ended up going to the “I don’t want to be here.” And their eyes looked kind of dull, it just, you could tell they weren’t, weren’t happy or excited anymore, you know, they were gone. Yeah. Brett Gilliland  40:02 Yeah, that makes me think of a friend of mine and author Matthew Kelly talks about the QS, the quit and stayed, you know, and so when you said that it’s, they may stay working where they’re at, but they’ve physically have quit, so therefore, they’re gone. But they quit and stayed. And I think that’s when it’s us, as a leader to have that tough conversation with somebody and talk to him about that quit and stay mentality. Marty Strong  41:06 Yeah, the military version of that is retired on active duty. Brett Gilliland  41:10 Oh, yeah. Marty Strong  41:11 People that aren’t being challenged aren’t being pushed, they’ve achieved a certain rank, and they’re sitting at a desk, and they’re, they don’t, they’re not gonna take risks. They’re not gonna, you know, anything more than just the regular day and, and then if you’re, if you’re younger, and a military organization, and you’re, you’re trying to solve a problem, you’re trying to get something done, and you run into this immovable object, which is this, this, this thing, this person that’s decided, I have four years ago before I hit 20 years, but I decided I retired now, psychologically, mentally, and everything. It’s really frustrating, but it’s a real thing. You run into those people. And you see the same thing in, in, obviously, in government in general. And in business, too. It’s you can’t survive as a small business with somebody like that because there’s not enough people, you know, the single point of failures, it magnified, right? Brett Gilliland  42:04 Yeah. Marty Strong  42:04 But, but it’s frustrating, especially if you’re, you’re committed and you’re you’ve got other people that are committed, you start hearing from lots of different sources that there’s a problem on the second floor. Brett Gilliland  42:16 Yeah. So let’s talk about, one of the final questions here as you know, we talked about success and all the things that we do, right, and, but what’s something that you struggle with, and I’ll be transparent and share that mine, mine is more of like a fitness side, like, I don’t love working out, you know, and I love the concept of it. I enjoy it when I’m done with it. But I’m not this like seven day a week guy and all this stuff showing up and just doing it even when I don’t want to do it. If I don’t want to do it, I just don’t freakin do it. Right? And so that’s what I struggle with, but when you think of sleep, or your diet or exercise or something I’m not even thinking of right now, is there something that you struggle with and what have you done, and I can share my accountability to the exercise later, but that you’ve done to overcome that, and now it’s become a habit for you? Marty Strong  43:05 Well, it’s not fitness. Since we’re done here, I’m going right on to the peloton bike so I work out six–– Brett Gilliland  43:10 Mine’s right there. Marty Strong  43:11 ––six days a week. And yeah, I’ve, I’ve always, I’ve always liked working out I’ve always liked sports. So you know, I stay I stay in good shape that way. I have no problem sleeping, I go to sleep at night, wake up the next morning, boom, you know, I’m good. My, my problem is taking actual time off, quality time off. My kids are all grown, I got five kids, five grandkids. So we don’t have anybody in the house running around that we have to worry about paying attention to. Brett Gilliland  43:40 Yeah. Marty Strong  43:41 Except for a little yorkiepoo. The, so in 2020, before COVID I sat down my wife and said, “Okay, we gotta I gotta solve this, I gotta fix this, because I’m, I’m committed.” So if you’re, if you’re committed to all those channels I read rattled off earlier, you know, there’s going to be a channel called, you know, you and your, your family. So, as much as I have intermittent contact all day long, and when I work from home, I’m here. I’m not really engaging. I’m not really involved. So, in 2020, we sat down and we we set up a whole bunch of trips, and we set up two comedy concerts, these like destination concerts, and I think three or four music concerts, and we had the whole year stacked. Brett Gilliland  44:28 That’s coo. Marty Strong  44:28 We sat out there, we light it up. So now I got a commitment. Right, I got a schedule. We’re gonna get out of town. We’re gonna go have fun. Every one them got canceled. And actually they were canceled, they were canceled again and ’21 and postponed I think we got to see one. Got to see the Doobie Brothers–- Brett Gilliland  44:46 Oh there you go! Marty Strong  44:47 ––finally go almost three years later. So we just went through this again. And we just came back from from four days in Long Beach Island, New Jersey, which, she set that up a while back, we’ve got like four trips set up between now and January, where I set up a ski trip in February. So that’s how I’m trying to cope with my weak area, my, my failing, I need to take that as seriously and commit to that as completely as I commit to all the other things. Brett Gilliland  45:19 Yeah. And when I hear there too, is that we got to pre plan it, right? I mean, if they’re on the calendar, then you’re going to take your weakness, and you’re going to turn it into an opportunity, because now it’s there. And now you just got to go do it, right, you just gotta get on the plane or the car, or whatever it is, and you’ll make it happen. And for me, the last few weeks, you’ve probably heard me talking about this in the podcast is that my accountability was I’m tired of this, I need to at least need twice a week. So Tuesdays and Thursday mornings, 6am I’ve got anywhere from five to eight guys that come to my backyard, I walk outside, usually around 5:42 or 5:52 and I’m ready, you got the weights out there, and there’s usually at least one or two guys already out there doing stuff, right? They’re exercising, but for me, like I know, I just I wouldn’t wake up then and go do it. And so I had to create this environment that I know a bunch of my buddy’s gonna be in my own damn backyard guess who’s showing up this guy, right? And so it’s been it’s been phenomenal. So again, to our listeners, I would say find that buddy group, find that system, book it on your calendar, whatever it is–– Marty Strong  46:25 Yeah. Brett Gilliland  46:25 –– do something about it and make it happen. Marty Strong  46:28 Yeah, figuring out what works for me is telling somebody, I’m going to do something because then I then I’m gonna have to be committed to it right, so? Brett Gilliland  46:35 Well, because I’m gonna go check your beer a peloton name out and see if you actually rode the bike after this. Marty Strong  46:40 Yeah, so if it’s Time Warrior. Brett Gilliland  46:44 There you go. Marty Strong  46:45 So if, if I would run a half marathon or me my wife ran marathons, half marathons, adventure races, things like that. As soon as we signed up, like the next day, you’re like, “What the hell did I just do?” Brett Gilliland  46:56 Yeah. Marty Strong 46:56 Now you’re committed to the whole training program, buying all the cool gear stuff, and so one of the first things I would do is I tell people at the office, I tell my friends, because I could never live down not doing it once I–– Brett Gilliland  47:09 Absolutely. Marty Strong  47:10 That’s what kept me, that’s what kept me on track. If we didn’t tell anybody, we could just go “hey, yeah, I’m good if you’re good. Let’s cancel this.” Brett Gilliland  47:20 Yeah, well they say go public. You know, if you got a goal, you got a big goal work personally, whatever it is go public with it. And I’ve spent my whole career doing that you just because if you’re right, if you tell enough people, it’s like, “Oh, crap, man, I gotta do that.” You know? So. Marty Strong  47:34 Well it works, it works for me anyway. I don’t like to say one thing and then not do it. Brett Gilliland  47:39 Yeah. Marty Strong  47:40 You definitely can’t do it when you’re writing books and talking about in interviews all the time. Brett Gilliland  47:43 Exactly. Exactly. So “Be Visionary: Strategic Leadership in the Age of Optimization,” it’s gonna be an awesome book coming out in January of 2023. What’s your number one goal you hope somebody gets from it? Marty Strong  47:58 That they lift their head up and look at the horizon and learn how to dream again. Brett Gilliland  48:03 Powerful, isn’t it dreaming? Marty Strong 48:05 I think so. Brett Gilliland  48:06 I love it. I just love the word dream. You know, it’s it is amazing. And that’s for me what I do in strategic thing time every week, you know, just me, my journal, an ink pen, no technology and just dream. And we got to do more of it. And I’m sure you’d agree with that as the some of my best ideas, my best decisions have come from that time alone. But but at the beginning, it was really tough, because you’d feel like as a hard charging guy, I’d be like, well, this is, I’m weak. Why am I being a loser sitting over here, the ink pen and a piece of paper man? I should be doing this. But then I found as I’ve done it now since July of 2005, that it’s by far the best time I spend all week. Marty Strong  48:45 Yeah, and there’s this there’s a sequence, you know? You don’t just dream. It sounds kind of goofy, but you dream, the dream turns into vision, the vision turns into a concept, usually somewhat fleshed out on paper, the concept is converted into a strategy, and the strategy then drives an operational gameplan, milestones, etc., to achieve the strategy. That’s how you go back into the reality of business. You start with the dream and you work your way structurally backwards. Brett Gilliland  49:12 Love it, love it. Where do we find more of Marty Strong, that we can put in the show notes for our listeners to find more of you? Marty Strong 49:19 Just go to Martystrongbenimble.com, and there’s links to all my books and articles, all kinds of stuff there. Brett Gilliland  49:25 Awesome, man. Well, we’ll put it on social media, or on our show notes for sure and thanks for joining me again, man on the Circuit of Success. This is a great time and always enjoy the conversation. Marty Strong  49:34 Yeah, thanks for having me. Good to see you again. Brett Gilliland  49:36 Good to see you. Enjoy.

Today’s guest, Mark J. Silverman, is no stranger to overcoming adversity.  His is on a mission to take the lessons learned along the way, paired with his business acumen, to help others define and achieve their own successes. Mark is an executive coach, author and podcast host. He works with leaders and their teams around the world, to address the underlying behaviors and mindsets that sabotage all “time management” and “productivity tools.” Diagnosed with ADHD in his 40s, Silverman set out to write a guide to conquering your to-do lists when procrastination is your demon. Visit https://masteroverwhelm.markjsilverman.com/the-circuit-of-success-podcast for extra content and access to his book. EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION: Brett Gilliland  00:02 Welcome to The Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilliland and today I’ve got Mark J. Silverman. Mark, how’re we doing man?  Mark Silverman  00:09 I’m doing amazing. Thank you for having me on the show.  Brett Gilliland  00:11 Absolutely. Coming to us from Virginia, right? How’s, what’s going on in Virginia today?  Mark Silverman  00:18 The weather is absolutely stunning. And it’s quiet. And my dogs are not insisting on barking at anybody on the sidewalk. So it’s a good day.  Brett Gilliland  00:27 That’s a great day, that’s a great day, we don’t want that to happen. Well, you are an executive coach, a speaker, a podcaster, and author. So, excited to tell your story today and get some good wisdom for our listeners. So, but as an executive coach, and you’ve worked with leaders and teams around the world, you’re helping the CEOs, you’re helping all the leaders in those organizations. What I wrote down here is the underlying behaviors and mindsets that sabotage all time management and productivity tools. So that’s some good stuff to talk about, man. So let’s dive in. But before we do that, Mark, if we can just if you could just give us a little lay of the land, and what’s made you the man you are today, and how did you kind of wake up to where you’re at, in the world that you’re living in now?  Mark Silverman  01:09 If I, if I have to give any credit to what made me the man I am today, it would have to be being a dad. Right? Having, having kids made me the man I was today. Everything else, you know, kind of, kind of came with the with the package. But when I became a dad, everything started in earnest. One of the things I found out was that I was severely ADHD, when we’d had my kid tested. So we went, we went to the doctor, we all got tested, because, you know, we didn’t want him to feel singled out. And the doctor says, you know, he’s off the charts, and I don’t even know how he functions. And I’m like, you know, yeah, my kid, right? And Doctor points to me. And I was in my 40s at the time. And that was like a revelation. I now understood why it took me so much effort to do normal things that you know, I was a high achiever, but it was always at the end of the quarter, it was always just in time, I would do big things, but not little things. And you know, you said, but before we turn the microphone on, you talked about, you know, being being extraordinary at the ordinary things.  Brett Gilliland  02:16 Yeah. Mark Silverman  02:17 Those of us who have ADD are really good at the extraordinary. And we have trouble with the ordinary. So those, those steps get missed. So for me, I was having trouble, I had left my corporate career, I was an exec, I was a high tech sales guy. And, you know, pretty, really quite, quite successful there. But again, always the hockey stick at the end of the quarter, because the sense of urgency wasn’t there. And I kind of liked being the hero that helped my, my dopamine hit, you know? Silverman brought in the last $3 million we needed for that quarter. Right? When I became when I became an executive coach, I became an entrepreneur. And they didn’t tell me that when I became an entrepreneur, I no longer had kind of a jerk sales manager looking over my shoulder telling me what to do. So I’d be sitting in my office, not doing a lot of the things I needed to do to make this coaching practice successful. And it was frustrating to me, because I knew, I knew to narrow things down to get to just a few things that were important. And I still wasn’t getting them done. And the revelation came to me that, you know, I generally do what I want to do, and I don’t do what I don’t want to do. So I decided I was going to get a PhD in how to get things done as a guy with ADHD, and kind of sitting in his office by himself. And I spent the summer of 2015, figuring out what made me tick. And what made me not do things and what made me do things. And what I figured out was, if I was excited about it, if I was interested in it, it got done really easily. If I wasn’t it didn’t get done at all. So, so I started to notice that I would say yes to things that weren’t really important to me. I would say yes to things because I didn’t want to disappoint people, I would say yes to things because I was afraid not to be liked or that kind of thing.  Brett Gilliland  04:14 Yeah.  Mark Silverman  04:15 I would do things because I thought they were a good idea. So what happened was, I started collecting all this stuff, I wrote it into a book, I thought I would sell a copy to me and maybe my mother and 1500 copies sold the first day. And then over that month, people started giving this book to you know, CEOs and leadership teams and things like that. And I’d be getting calls about this great new system that I had come up with called the only 10s. And it was a shocker to me, you know, so I was a guy with ADD, trying to figure out how to get things done. And it seemed to apply to a lot of people in the world who are already successful.  Brett Gilliland  04:55 Yeah, that’s incredible man and there’s a lot to dive in there. It’s funny when you say that about the if you want to do it and you’re excited about doing it, it comes easily. And I even go back as we’re doing a little project in our basement right now with our workout room making a little bit bigger. And you know, you accumulate crap in your house, right? Wife, four kids, we got a basement and our storage is like, oh my god, this is embarrassing, but we rented a dumpster, we’re gonna start throwing things out. And I can’t tell you how productive I was in that day. If he just said, “Hey, Brett, go down and clean the basement.” I’d been like, oh, you know, would not want to do it. But when you have the end in mind, of what I could see the workout room looking like when it’s done, when all this crap was out of there. Then I was, I was productive all day. Like I didn’t want to stop right from sunup to sundown. And so it’s just amazing. It just made me think of that when you were talking about that. So I guess that’s probably what, the way you are, right? Mark Silverman  05:52 So the same thing, I have a basement story also. So I have this big unfinished basement, plenty of room for everything moved into this house. And my ex wife sold her house. And she’s moved, she moved into an apartment. And my kids had all this stuff. My kids are out of the house. I’m a little older than you. And, and and, you know, she said, can you take some of the stuff that we’re holding for Zach and Jake, can you take some of this stuff, and I’m like, sure, I know. But nobody goes in my basement, I bought these shelves, you we can just put them on the shelves. So we started, they have a lot more stuff than I thought that they wanted from their childhood to give to their kids. My kids are more sentimental than I thought they were. So my basement just exploded with stuff. And plus, I had a bunch of stuff that I had just never unpacked in the basement, and I bought these shelving units and I put them up in everything. And every day, every couple of weeks, I’d be like I put it on my list. And I really want to get the basement organized. I really need to get the basement. Yeah, and I have my gym in the basement. So my gym part because I really wanted a gym in the basement. My gym part is beautiful in the basement. Yeah, the rest of the basement is crap, right? So it wasn’t a ten, wasn’t a ten, wasn’t a ten, one of the things that I know about myself is, if it’s not a 10, it’s never gonna get done. If it’s a 10, it’ll get done. And then one day, I was just kind of in my office, and I thought, oh, you know what, I need a new shelving unit, because they brought more stuff over. So I ordered a bunch of shelving units, soon as the shelving units came in from Amazon, I brought them downstairs, I put them together, and all of a sudden it was 10. All of a sudden, you wouldn’t think I have ADD, you wouldn’t think that I procrastinated on anything. I organized the entire basement and put everything on shelves, vacuumed behind, got the crickets up and all that stuff and got it all done. Why? Because at that point, it was time for it to be done.  Brett Gilliland  07:39 Right.  Mark Silverman  07:39 So I trusted that intuition. And that was that whole, that’s the whole thing. And we can get into that a little more when we talk about the system. Brett Gilliland  07:46 Yeah, and so you talked about the only 10. So that’s what you’re talking about, then it’d be on a scale of one to 10. And it comes to 10 on your list, then it’s gonna get done, and it’s gonna get done really, really damn well. Mark Silverman  07:56 Right? And it always it always does. I’m, I’ve been wildly successful in everything that I’ve tried to do.  Brett Gilliland  08:02 Yeah.  Mark Silverman  08:02 I’ve just not been successful at: did I get my expenses paid? You know, into the system at the right time, did I get these little things done? So it’s really been an interesting learning experience. So let’s talk about what a 10 is.  Brett Gilliland  08:16 Yeah, absolutely.  Mark Silverman  08:17 So for me, what I realized was, if we put everything on a scale of one to 10, if you look at your To-Do lists, and what I do in my workshops, is I have everybody put everything on their to-do list, just do a brain dump. And then they’ll have they’ll have twos on their list, they’ll have fives on their list, they’ll have eights and nines, and then they’ll have a couple of 10s. And they’ll explain me, so what a 10 is, is it absolutely must get done, must get done by you. And it must get done by you today. Right? So it’s 10 when we do a 10 It’s only for today. We can, we can expand that out to the week’s 10. But right now I’m looking at today, it must be done must be done by you. And it must be done by you today, or you have juice to do it. Like you’re excited. Like when I got excited when the shelves came from Amazon. I got excited about organizing the basement. And I trusted that right, there were other things I should be doing; editing a podcast, writing, you know, another chapter in my book, you know, following up for a client, but I had juice for this, so I trusted it and I went with it. So then when they started looking at what their 10s are, usually they’re like, I’m so overwhelmed. I have so much to do, everything’s on my plate when they start looking at everything and there’s only a couple times I say “Okay, now what on your, you know what on your to-do list now, our twos and fives and eights, are somebody else’s, somebody else put it there, but you didn’t set a boundary?” Right? So somebody put something on your plate and what’s on your plate because you think it’s a really good idea? It should be done. It’s really like it’s such a great idea. I can’t tell you how many ideas, “I’ll make money on this. It’s really a good idea and I never get to it.” How many things are on your to-do list that were on your to-do list yesterday, the day before and the week before, and it’s just a placeholder, because you don’t want to forget about it? Great. Now I start having them crossing those things off, right, and the fives go away, and the twos go away, and the eights go away. And then we get to the nines. And that’s where people like, hold on for dear life.  Brett Gilliland  10:17 Yeah.  Mark Silverman  10:18 And I’m like, “so was your nine on your list yesterday? And the day before? And the day before?” “Yes.” Are you really you know, and I tried to get them to see that they’re never actually gonna get to it. Or it’s something they don’t want to do and really should be delegated. Right? I work with a lot of a lot of CEOs who are doing things that just shouldn’t be on their plates. And they never seem to get them. They’re visionaries. If you’re a CEO, you’re a visionary. You’re not a nuts and bolts person. But you know, I, the conversation I have with a lot of a lot of my guys, is they feel useless when they’re only in their zone of genius. So when they’re only in customer meetings, when they’re only setting vision and strategy, when they’re only doing you know, going on podcasts and doing, you know, they feel like they’re not really doing anything. So they really have to go over the expense report. So they really have to go over these things. And then they realize that they’re doing that so that they can have this feeling of control. So once I get all those things done, you only have one two, or three 10s every single day. What I learned over that summer, when I was writing the book was if I only had two or three 10s during a day, I committed to doing those things, right. One of the things that killed my self esteem and kills all of our self esteem is not keeping our word to ourselves. So let’s say you say I’m going to lose 10 pounds. And it’s a week later, and it’s a week later, and a week later, you’ll lose 10 pounds, or you know, I’m going to go to the gym this many times, or I’m going to, you say you’re going to do something and then you don’t keep your word to yourself, internally that just knocks down your self worth and your self esteem over and over and over again. So for what I said was, if it’s a 10, if it’s a 11:59, and I’m in bed, and I remember I didn’t do it, I’m getting out of bed, and I’m gonna do it. So I started keeping my word to myself and I started keeping my list unbelievably small. So that if I said I was going to meditate, I meditated. If I said I was going to send out a proposal, it went out. And what I found after two or three days was I started doing my 10s. And then I started looking at the rest of my list that I wasn’t looking at that were tens for another time. And I started getting more productive, I started doing things that I actually was excited about. And I started following my intuition. One of the things that happens when you, when you get out of overwhelm, is you start to get that gut feeling. And that gut feeling is when you pick up the phone and you call a prospect at just the right time with just the right message. And you start following that. And business exploded and everything, everything changed from there. Brett Gilliland  11:24 I think there’s power in getting something checked off of your list, you know, I use our mission statement here “a future greater than your past, helping people achieve a future greater than your past.” I have a journal I’ve created from the last 20 years of stuff. And for me, I find when I’m in that journal, and I’m actually coloring in a circle, and I’m getting something done, there’s power to that. And then it’s like, “Okay, now let’s make it a game.” So I think if people can have a to-do list, whether it’s on your phone, on paper, I believe in putting it on paper, but that highlighting it or circling it or scratching it off, there’s a massive amount of power there. And so don’t overlook that. And use that to-do list as a place. as a workplace a blueprint, if you will, to have a productive day in a productive life, right and then but getting those 10s, like you said, done, now all of a sudden, you are going to the other 10s that are weeks away, or the nine or the eight or the five, right, and you, because you just want to keep checking things off the list. Yeah but see, I won’t lie, I won’t let my people do the nines and the eights and the sevens. Because again, they if they didn’t make it to 10, there’s no reason to be spending time on it. I’d rather them go skiing or something. But, but again, one of the things is it’s a badge of honor to check things off your list. The question is, are you getting your self esteem from just being so productive because you’re checking things off your list? Or are you checking things off your list that are going towards the thing that is important in your life? Right? So if you’re if you’re there’s certain things that have to happen in your business, and you’re checking off the things that actually move things forward that are yours to do, and part of that, what is yours to do if you’re, if you’re in leadership is the accountability is checking on the things that you delegated, you know, giving feedback and, and doing that particular thing. But have you checked off the thing on your list? Are you going on a date with your spouse? Are you, have you done the things with your kids? are you actually doing the things that are important to you? Because I, you know, I work with people who procrastinate, and I work with people who are workaholics. And they both get their badge of honors from some, you know, different place with those people who are workaholics. They just love spinning their wheels and getting things done and doing that because they’re avoiding the rest of their lives. So how do we make it so that you–– We do this Seven Habits of Highly Effective People of Essentialism, of all the books that were ever written on what your values are, how do we actually, you know, work with our internal guidance system to spend the time on those things. And that’s what I’ve always had trouble working with. And that’s how I came up with this for myself. Yeah, and I think too, and I 100% agree with that, I think where I was even saying is that the things that may be an eight or a six or a five are things that have to be done? They had to be done by me, and I need to do them today. But I think was that that using the ADD analogy there for me is, if it’s not a 10, like, I’m fired up about it, but we still all have things in our life we don’t want to do right now. I can build a team around me and have that delegation. But there’s still something I need to make that one phone call, and if I’m not excited about it, but I still gotta go do it. Mark Silverman  15:50 No, but see, see, again, if it has to be done, and you’re not excited about it, then it’s a 10. Right? If you said you were going to call someone–– Brett Gilliland  15:57 That’s okay. So that’s where I guess, that’s okay.  Mark Silverman  15:59 I want to be really clear on that. I’m really, I’m really asking people to be ruthless. It’s a 10, if it’s an eight, get it to a 10. If it can’t make it to, it really, really has to be done. So let’s let’s talk about what hat the, for me, the motor, the driver isn’t ever the thing on the list. It’s everything on your list has a qualifier. So everything on your list either is a consequence, you want to avoid.  Brett Gilliland  16:24 Yep. Mark Silverman  16:24 Or a reward that you want. Right? So let’s talk about that phone call that you want to make, that you don’t feel like making but you know, you need to make. The reward is, “oh, I will call them maybe I’ll make a sale, or I’ll call them and I’ll fix a problem.” Right? Or, you know, “if I don’t call them, I want to avoid not keeping my word.” That sometimes, sometimes, for me, the 10 is just “I want to be a person who keeps their word.” Right? So then that’s how I elevate it to that level. If I said I was going to do it, I’m going to do it. So the other qualified qualifiers, you know, again, for me, it really confronted my internal clock, I can look at someone’s To-Do List of what’s on there and what’s not, and tell you how they were raised, what they’re afraid of, what their personality type is, right? So for me, if I, if I look at a list, if I look at my list, what is it that I’m afraid to delegate? Am I holding on to control for, for something, you know, so I’ll confront each thing is something; Am I afraid to set a boundary? And that’s where the difficult conversations come in. So when once I decided I was going to be committed to my own life, and getting my own things done, all of a sudden now I had to have difficult conversations of setting boundaries of asking for help of creating agreements. Renegotiating I said, I was going to do this for you Thursday, but actually can’t get this done for you by Thursday. Is it okay, if you have it by Monday, right? All sudden, I now have alleviated some stress. And those difficult conversations is for me, where life starts to happen. My relationships become more honest, my, my relationships become more intimate. I feel better about myself. So yeah, that’s what fosters the–– Brett Gilliland  18:04 It reminds me a number of years ago, we did an exercise with our team, our executive team, and it was “write down the top 10 things you think you do.” And then I presented those. And then they went around, and we kind of voted quietly. So they didn’t impact each other’s vote. What, what do they need for me to be able to do their job the best on this list of 10 things? What do they need for me to do my job, or their job? I’m sorry, the best. And it was amazing. It went back to these three things. And it was like I call it leadership permission. It’s like now I feel like I have the permission from our team to do the things that I’m uniquely qualified or have brilliance to do. Because sometimes, it’s just get the hell out of the way Brett, this isn’t your thing. Right?  Mark Silverman  18:05 Right.  Brett Gilliland  18:06 And I think that permission for me was good to not have that guilt or frustration of like, I’m not doing enough because as an entrepreneur, as a founder of a firm, you know, CEO, you want to have your hands in everything. And as things grow, you want to get rid of it so for listeners, that’s what I would tell them is find that team for you, get permission from them and what they need for you to get the hell out of the way. Mark Silverman  19:11 That’s such a good exercise.  Brett Gilliland  19:13 Yeah, yeah, it was very, very helpful. So talk about fears. I spent a lot of time talking about that. So the fears either your own or people you’ve worked with how many the fears you’ve put in your mind have actually blown up to the magnitude you put them in your mind to be. Mark Silverman  19:27 Almost none, right? Yeah, almost almost none ever. Brett Gilliland  19:31 Yep. Yep. And so talk about that. Why is that? Why as humans I was just, yesterday, I was just having this discussion. Actually, this morning, I was having that discussion with somebody. And I said that to him. I said, you know, I pointed the microphone as in a different meeting. I said, I’ve asked us, you know, 300 times how many of the fears we put in our mind blow up like that, and it’s zero but yeah, as entrepreneurs and business owners, leaders, parents, whatever it may be, we put those things, I always say you get this little guy on your shoulder over here talking in your ear telling you the bad stuff. Why did we do that as humans today? Mark Silverman  20:03 I think well, one is because the you know, we won, we won the DNA lottery, where our ancestors who were fearful and ran away survived, the ones who were looking for danger and got out of the way they survived. So that’s that’s part of it. But the other is, I think we, we, a lot of us beat ourselves into submission to be successful. Right? So we think that we need to beat ourselves up to be motivated, we need to be scared to be motivated, a little fear. How many times have you heard a little fear is a good because I’m a little scared of living under a bridge so it makes me work harder. So that’s kind of the whip we use. I was just talking to a CEO yesterday, who has built multi, multimillion dollar companies, you know, he’s a serial entrepreneur just crushed it at everything that he’s done. But he, you know, he asked me if you if I could just do his 10s with him every Friday for the following week, just for a month, because he’s just not getting stuff done. And finally, I, he said, he said, “You know, I think I did more this week than I thought I did. So I can feel good about myself.” And I said, “Hold on, hold on, what’s your success criteria for feeling good about yourself? Is it you checked off a bunch of these things?” Right? It’s not that you you know, you grew your revenue by by, you know, 25% last year, right, even though you didn’t check off all the boxes and do the right things and, and all that stuff, you know, he was so interesting to me that he was grading, grading himself on the things he was terrible at, which was doing some of the day-to-day work. But the visionary stuff, every time he’s in a sales meeting, every time he’s with his organization, it grows. He’s not giving himself the credit for the zone of genius. But instead, he’s got to beat himself up because he didn’t get all the things on his to-do list done. Brett Gilliland  21:55 So let’s talk about the conversations that you can have to change your life. I mean, I think those are really important, right? That community, you mentioned something earlier, too, about communication. And it made me think about the more we over communicate, the more clarity there is for everybody at the table, right? Again, this is personal and professional and more clarity there is, the better. So what conversations can we be having with either ourselves or others that can change our life? Mark Silverman  22:20 So setting boundaries is the first one, right? Knowing, knowing what I want, knowing what I’m willing to do what I’m not willing to do, what I want to do when I want to do it, that kind of thing, and having a self to come from, right, they confront our, our sense of self worth, once we start to have these conversations. I can put in a book all day long that you need to set boundaries, you need to say no, you need to do all these things. But if we don’t work with those fears, those childhood fears, and those traumas and the things inside that keep us from doing those, we’re never going to have success. So every time I think I’m going to go have a conversation, I notice what’s going on with me and what’s stopping me, and then I’m able to get support and go have those conversations. So setting a boundary, saying no, I can’t you know, I don’t know how many, I don’t know if you’re a people pleaser in any way, shape, or form. I am a recovering people pleaser. Saying no to me was, it was like death. Because I, like my personality type. I’m an Enneagram 2, right? I’m, I’m the I’m the helper, I get my value by how much I’ve done for you and how much you thank me for how much I’ve done for you. Right? That’s where I get paid. So for me to say no is like a little death. And it wasn’t until I started to deal with that that I realized I could say no. So one of the things I teach people who have trouble saying no, is instead of saying no, why don’t you say “May I get back to you?” So that gets rid of the automatic “yes.” You’re not saying no. But now you can think about it. So “may I get back to you?” Now you can phone a friend, you can think about it you can, you can decide what is it that you are willing to do, want do you, where is your where’s your choice in this matter? And then you can go back five minutes later, one minute later, two days later, and say, you know, “yes, I can do this or not, I can do this, but I can do it next Tuesday.” The other other things are are asking for help. You know, how are you asking for help? When you’re overwhelmed with stuff? Or you can’t figure something out? You’re good at picking up the phone and just saying I don’t know how to do this? Brett Gilliland  24:21 Yeah, I think so. I mean, it depends on the thing, because sometimes you know your pride can get in the way too, and be like I’m just gonna grit through it and get it done. And I’ll figure it out, or I’ll do the research. But I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older that, you know I can I can save a bunch of time and energy and emotion by calling the person that knows how to get it done and get it done the right way. And I can learn something. Mark Silverman  24:39 Right because someone on your team who is spinning their wheels on something, and it’s not something they can Google, right?  Brett Gilliland  24:44 Yeah.  Mark Silverman  24:45 But they can call you and say hey, you know, I’m working on this thing. I just need this piece of information. You give it to them, you send them off on their thing. So asking for help is another difficult conversation.  Brett Gilliland  24:54 Yep.  Mark Silverman  24:54 The biggest the biggest conversation that I have to teach people is the feedback accountability loop. So you know how many times have you had expectations of people where they’ve let you down, because you just have this expectation that they’re going to do their job, they’re going to do their job well. And you haven’t had an explicit conversation of what their job is, what it is you’d like to see them do it, and at what level you’d like to have them do it. Right. Have you created an explicit agreement there? Now, once you’ve had the agreement, have you gone back and checked on that and given them feedback on how that went? That’s another difficult conversation, because people are like, they just should know how to do their jobs. Right. And that’s just not that’s just not the case. So you know, if you have a teenager, like you can have expectations all day long, that are not going to happen. I used to have my kids sign a document that said, we had this conversation, and this is what you agreed to, because they would forget it doesn’t work every time. Employees are the same way. Brett Gilliland  25:56 Yeah, so I think so I hear those set boundaries, asking for help. I call it the power of no, feedback accountability loop. I think the key to that is is a process as well. And I would assume you’re a pretty detailed, disciplined person. So what is that process like for you to be successful? And when you’re morning, or when your day? What’s that look like? Mark Silverman  26:19 Well, for me, I’m not I’m not a detailed person at all. And I am disciplined because I know the things that are that, that make my life work and don’t. So I’m up at 5:20 every morning, I’m on my meditation cushion, I have my all my stuff together, I then I go and have coffee, and I –– Brett Gilliland  26:38 Can I stop you there? So when you say all my stuff, let’s let’s dive into the weeds here. Because you’re, you’re a big picture guy just like I am. But I’m learning we got to get in the weeds here so we can get the real nuts and bolts here. So my meditation cushion. And you said all my stuff, what is that? Mark Silverman  26:52 So so it’s usually pen and paper. It’s usually a book of some sort. That I like that, you know, and I kind of, I kind of mix it up. I don’t I don’t like having a routine, morning routine where I do everything the same all the time. Sometimes it’s reading, sometimes it’s journaling, sometimes it’s meditation, or sometimes it’s prayer. It’s all, it’s all kinds of different stuff. But I’m always on the cushion at 5:20 in the morning, ready to go with whatever contemplation practices up for me. It doesn’t, it doesn’t have to be long. And I teach this to every one of my clients, you have to have some time. Even if it’s just sitting at the table with a cup of coffee, staring out the window with no phone or no anything to be with yourself. If you can’t find a homing device with being near with yourself, you’ll never be able to make decisions and choices from from a grounded place. So that’s essential for me. Brett Gilliland  27:46 Okay, so you got that and then what? What else? Mark Silverman  27:50 Then, then we meet for coffee in front of my fish tank. I bought myself I have this gigantic, saltwater fish tank that I love. So we meet for coffee for 15 minutes in front of the fish tank and–– Brett Gilliland  28:00 And by “we” you mean you and the fish? Mark Silverman  28:04 No me, me and my partner. Okay. Then I go and exercise.  Brett Gilliland  28:09 Yep.  Mark Silverman  28:09 And then and then I start my day. But it’s you know, I have to I have to have I started with, started when my kids were little. I had to get up early before they woke up.  Brett Gilliland  28:19 Yeah, get some alone time.  Mark Silverman  28:21 So that I could have my own time to get myself to be the best dad and husband and you know, person I could be. Brett Gilliland  28:28 Yeah, I like that. I like that and talk to us about your sleeping. I think, you know, obviously it’s very, very important. But I mean, what what do you where do you rank sleep if I had to do exercise, you know movement, whatever you want to call it, sleep, high water intake, and food. Mark Silverman  28:44 I am, I am a terrible sleeper I get in bed at 10 o’clock. I’m in bed at 10 minutes after 10 every night and fall asleep immediately. And I wake up at two o’clock, three o’clock every, every night. And various ways of getting back to sleep. It’s just been that way since I quit drinking, you know, 33 years ago.  Brett Gilliland  29:05 Oh wow.  Mark Silverman  29:06 Even even if my you know so I’ll get up, I’ll pray, or meditate, or watch a TV show. But I’ve given, I’ve given up. I’ve interviewed sleep experts. I’ve read every sleep book, I have not been able to sleep very, very well. But in every other area of my life you know food is you know, I just turned 60 years old. What I put in my body is really important if I want to have the energy to create what I want to create at this age; exercise water, food, you know the right foods, connection, all those things to be vibrant and alive at this age is what I do.  Brett Gilliland  29:41 So what’s your exercise routine look like? What are you doing?  Mark Silverman  29:45 I see a trainer once a week. I think that anybody who can afford it should have a trainer if you can’t afford it, a buddy so that you have someplace to go. I get injured real quick really, really easily and frustrated because I get injured so quickly that I found a gifted trainer who’s really helped me stay strong. And then I’m in the gym, I’m, I’m on my elliptical. I walk my dogs two miles every day, I dance, that sometimes I had a trainer who told me he’d rather me dance and then be on the elliptical. So I dance sometimes. And stretching is also the non-negotiable. Stretching is the, you know, the most important thing to me, because I’ve had debilitating back pain. Brett Gilliland  30:29 Yeah. And I think you can get that back, right. And if you lose it, and you’re not very flexible, you just gotta get after it and make it happen. Mark Silverman  30:36 Slowly, but slowly, right. So like, because again, you get brittle. One of the things is I’m not, I’m not going to be the guy throwing around weights in a gym ever again. Yeah, I just get right, I needed to give that up in order to be able to get on the floor with my grandchildren.  Brett Gilliland  30:50 Yeah, that’s the key right there. So what risk would you say Mark, you’re happy that you took but it was a risk, and but it’s paid off? Mark Silverman  31:01 I’ve taken so many risks becoming a coach, when I you know, I left a job where I made half a million dollars a year to go talk to people for a living. And that was you know, I supported an ex wife, two kids in a million dollar house. I supported my parents, I had a pretty lavish lifestyle. And when I decided to become a coach, I didn’t think it through. And like I had to pay my own health insurance, I pay my own American Express. So that risk has been the dumbest and the best one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. Not amazing. Brett Gilliland  31:39 Like, yeah, how long those, let’s talk about that. For those people that are you know, maybe they’ve made a dumb decision, they think, but it’s ended up being the best decision. Because I similarly, when we started Visionary, you know, I had a nice career and the name of our firm is Visionary Wealth Advisors. And it was scary, right? My wife was pregnant with our fourth child, she’s eight months pregnant when we launched the company. We just built a new home, I mean, all these things. And I think that that fear why I asked that question earlier, the fears hold us back from doing things to following our dreams and following our passions right? And here, you got a good job, and home, all this stuff, and you walk away from it, from a nice income. Why? Why did you do that? And why is it a good decision now? Talk to that person who is right now scared to death. Mark Silverman  32:22 When they, when they talk to other people about when they you know, when I when I coach people in the making transitions, I tell them don’t do what I did, I suggest that you kind of do the do the dual thing for a while, like for me, what would have worked would be coach on the weekends and keep my income until I can build a coaching practice. I’m single threaded. Once I’m done, I’m done. Once I’m done with a job, I walk right? Like I can’t do two things at once. So I had to go, I’m done with sales, I am now a coach. And I dove in and I decided to, I had enough in the bank to go for a while. And until I didn’t. And I because I as soon as I, as soon as I became a coach, I had six clients immediately, six people who were my customers were like, whatever you’re doing, Mark, you know, you’ve always been helpful outside of business and all that stuff we’re in. So I had six clients, but I wasn’t charging the kind of money I needed to charge, you know, to be able to take pride in my family and everything. So I thought, “Okay, this is going to be a breeze,” and every coaching school says, oh, six figures immediately and all that stuff. So, you know, I got to six figures pretty quickly. But that wasn’t even enough to take care of everybody. But you know, diligence I do in my own work, creating my business working really hard. And I got my income level back to what it was as a sales guy, but it took, it took believing in myself it took getting really scary on resources. You know, it took going from being a millionaire to being in debt, you know, taking care of everybody and still believing in my vision and what I would do. So you know, and then the ship, you know, the ship righted in itself. Brett Gilliland  33:59 Yeah, I think that’s the key thing, right there is that believing in yourself, I talked about in the circuits of success, your attitude, your belief system, your actions, ultimately get the results you want. But that belief is a huge one. Because I can tell you all day to go out and make this many phone calls or do this or do that. And that’s the action part, but belief in yourself having faith that what I’m doing, even though there’s no results showing up, even though it’s not showing up on my bank account, you got to have the long term strategy to believe that and then the results will show up. But it’s really really hard in the moment. Mark Silverman  34:33 The way, the way I did it, though, is also again that contemplation practice, right? So for me getting really quiet, having a relationship with what I’ll call God, and feeling that guidance when I know that my guidance is in alignment with where I should be even when things look like I shouldn’t be doing it. But I don’t trust just that. I have a posse of people. I have my group of people who I trust, who also say no, you’re still on the right path who will tell me if no, you know, “do you really need to go get a job? You’re kind of not on the right path.” Even my ex wife was like, who depended on me she wasn’t working, she was like you were born to do this. I trust you. I believe in you. I support you. So I had both people I had my own inner guidance and every step of the way I checked in “Am I doing the right thing? Am I, am I misguided in some way?” And you know, that’s how that’s how I knew the compass was pointed in the right direction. Brett Gilliland  35:26 What would you tell, you said you’re 60? What would you tell your 40 year old self right now? Mark Silverman  35:32 Stop buying Mercedes and Lexus. Like, like, a Chevy is just fine. Well, I grew up poor. So once I could afford it, you know, like, I love driving nice cars. And when I stopped having that income, I still, you know, bought my nice cars and lived a certain lavish lifestyle. So that’s what, that’s one of the things I would say. And the other would be to start writing earlier. Brett Gilliland  35:58 Okay. Trust yourself and write it and put it on paper. Huh? Mark Silverman  36:02 Well, writing books, you know, I’m, you know, I’ve had a couple of books, whose time came and went. And, and I just didn’t, I didn’t hunker down. So this next, I’m writing this next book, and committed to having this done now. Brett Gilliland  36:17 I love it. So Mark J. Silverman where can our listeners find more of you? Mark Silverman  36:21 They can go to MarkJSilverman.com. And if they look, if they go there, if you actually, I’m gonna give you a URL, it’s gonna be MarkJSilverman.com/circuitofsuccess. And there is a bunch of resources. A lot of my, a lot of my clients have ADD and refuse to read my book. So they want like, little five minute videos of everything I talked about. So I put those on a web page for your listeners. I put a copy, a free copy of the book, on the webpage. Also, they can download it for their Kindle, from that web page. Brett Gilliland  36:51 Awesome. Well, thank you very much. We will put that in the show notes as well, send people your way. And Mark, you’re in the St. Louis area, man. Look me up. We’ll connect. Mark Silverman  36:59 Awesome. Thank you. Thank you for a really great interview. The post Becoming an Executive Coach Was Mark Silverman’s “Dumbest and Best” Decision He Ever Made appeared first on The Circuit of Success with Brett Gilliland.

Scot is owner and founder of “Elevating Others,” a professional coaching and consulting business focused on increasing personal and organizational soft skills. He has been a leadership and development coach for over 25 years and is best known for being a servant leader and putting people first, with a passion for elevating others to become the best versions of themselves. His leadership mantra is simple, “Be Present, Be Bold, Be Innovative.” In 2020, while serving as the Commander of Scott Air Force Base, Scot underwent a life threatening surgery to remove a brain tumor. Following surgery, he underwent extensive therapy and radiation treatments. Scot continues to battle today, but his approach to adversity and an optimistic outlook on life is infectious. His story inspired thousands across the Air Force and was showcased on the local CBS affiliate’s “Surprise Squad” segment. EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION: Brett Gilliland  00:02 Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’m fired up. I’ve got another local guy. I love having local guys on the podcast. I’ve got Colonel Scot Heathman, Scott, how you doing today?  Col. Scot Heathman  00:13 Good. I’m doing great.  Brett Gilliland  00:14 Good. Col. Scot Heathman  00:15 What day is it? I’m retired. Brett Gilliland  00:17 Everyday is Saturday, every day is Saturday for you. What is today? Actually, it’s Wednesday, August 17. Right? That’s the day it is. Well, hey, it’s so good to have you, you’ve got an amazing story and I really look forward to sharing that with our listeners and our followers. But just really the way you’ve listened to some of the shows, I know, so I’d like to really dive in to really what’s made you the man you are today? There’s a lot there. I know that’s a big question, a pretty loaded question to start with, but but there’s a backstory there. So I’d love to start there if we can. Col. Scot Heathman  00:47 Well, I was born. That was a good thing. That’s a great thing, always a great thing to be alive. And I was born actually at Offutt Air Force Base, my dad was drafted. And so that’s why I came into this world. Saw Star Wars at age three, in 1977. You know, so that put me on a track to I want to be a pilot, you know. And so most of my childhood, that was where my dream was. And eventually I worked my way to ROTC up in Chicago at Illinois Tech right outside of Chicago, and got a pilot slot and flew for most of my career in the Air Force. And I’ve had a number of jobs in the Air Force, and a lot of leadership jobs here in the last probably 10 years, command jobs. And then literally just retired just a few weeks ago, July 15 was our ceremony and John Michel, who you know, he officiated did a fantastic job was very comical, exactly like I wanted it. Brett Gilliland  01:43 High energy John, right?  Col. Scot Heathman  01:45 Yeah, he hit it out of the park. And, and we’ve been traveling ever since you know, all summer just being on terminal leave. And now I’m trying to start a coaching and leadership business. I’m like, you know what, I want another challenge. And so I’m starting from the ground up again, and then join it. Brett Gilliland  02:01 Well, you think about what you’ve been through in your careers, how long were you in the military? Col. Scot Heathman  02:05 Just over 25 years. Brett Gilliland  02:06 Okay. So 25 years? I mean, you’ve learned a ton about leadership, and you’ve had great leaders and yeah, just a little bit. Right. And yeah, so absolutely. That seems like to make a lot of sense. And I saw that your leadership mantra, which I loved was: “Be present. Be bold. Be innovative.” When you hear that, what’s that mean to you? Col. Scot Heathman  02:25 I actually, I talked about this during the retirement ceremony I, that was the hardest speech to write. Because, you know, you can go so many different ways with a retirement speech, you can start pointing at people or, and I always like a talk right and learn something. And so I thought, you know what, maybe I’ll tell people what I’d been about these 25 years now. That mantra really didn’t come, I would say, into my public vision until maybe at my 12-13 year point in my career, when I was starting to really take on some heavy leadership responsibilities. But for me, it really breaks down into kind of three areas that I find myself, ebbing and flowing throughout any given day, in a given week, in a given month. They’re not all balanced. But there are three important areas that kind of guided my leadership. And when I became a Squadron Commander, I laid it out on a mug. And once you do that, if you put on the mug, it’s for real. Right? So to me being present was always about more than just passing people in the hallway and saying “What’s up?”, or just showing up to a meeting on time, it was about bringing your full self. Doesn’t mean your best self, but at least your full self, you may not have 100% in the tank that day. But you’re still bringing your full self to your day. You know, it’s maybe dive in a little bit deeper with people and I learned this from Cy Wakeman, who I’m a huge fan of. And she says instead of saying what’s up to people, she says try asking people, “what’s your update?” Like so on a Wednesday ask somebody give me an update today? What’s going on with you? I’m like, that is ingenious. You know? Brett Gilliland  03:23 Yeah. Yeah. Col. Scot Heathman  04:10 It gets the conversation flowing. Brett Gilliland  04:11 Well, absolutely does, right? Because you’re not just gonna be like, yeah, it’s great. That’s the go-to, right? You actually get into a detailed conversation. Col. Scot Heathman  04:19 It’s understanding maybe if you know the times where I’ve been at the head of the table, and I’ve had my commanders and leaders and experts around the table. It’s, It’s understanding everybody’s learning style, or which ones are introverts and extroverts, and how do I manage a meeting in such a way that I can keep them all included in the conversation and not let any one personality dominate? Maybe a certain decision. So to me that presence is about not only understanding my needs, it’s more so about understanding their needs and what we’re going after, you know. Being bold. I’ve been underestimated most of my life now. Being five foot six, you tend to get underestimated a lot. And I do know I’ve got kind of young boy looks, at General Michelle pointed that out during my retirement think he called me major, boy major. You know, and it’s good in some things, but it is something that people have brought up. And I think, you know, when you meet somebody who’s six foot five and, and has a look, you treat them a little differently. So to me about being bold was not only internally finding ways to maybe stretch myself in a way that I haven’t done before, push the envelope of staying curious, that was always the go-to is, if in doubt, just be curious, ask questions, you know, because the best decisions if you want the best decisions, you need to ask better questions. Don’t just rely on data, but actually ask the questions, get the context of what’s going on. And so I’ve always tried to push the envelope in my personal self, because I’ve always been at, it has felt like to me at times, at a disadvantage. So I’ve got to find other ways to maneuver. And it might take some good old fashioned boldness to maybe bring somebody into my network or say, “I’m not the expert in this” and be vulnerable enough as a leader to just say, “Hey, I don’t know all this. Can you? Do you mind running this conversation? Because you seem to have, you know, the expertise here.” I think not only one does that really make people feel good that you’ve empowered them, but two it shows everybody at the table, you’re the kind of leader that’s actually open, you’re gonna create that level of trust, which is really what we’re all after. I don’t ask I don’t tell people you need to earn my trust, I tell people you have it. From day one. You can lose it. Now, there are situations out there. But I just I’ve always succumbed to the philosophy that you don’t need to earn it with me you have it, I will give it to you from day one. I respect you that much. Being innovative. This isn’t to me like inventing something it’s not, you know, selling something on QVC or anything like that, to me being innovative was about working within a very hierarchical, bureaucratic, policy-driven environment and how can I be successful and get after the things that I want to do? It may take some very creative thinking, or means to do something to get after a mission set or to get after the goals we want to achieve. And it’s important that you find a way to do that. I brought a couple books I want to leave with you because–– Brett Gilliland  07:34 Oh thank you. Col. Scot Heathman  07:34 This has been part of my my growth over the years. But this this book Orbiting the Giant Hairball by Gordon McKenzie, I don’t know if you’ve ever? Brett Gilliland  07:43 No, I have not.  Col. Scot Heathman  07:44 So Gordon McKenzie was an employee of Hallmark just in Kansas City for 30 years, and he wrote this really goofy book. And funny enough, the Chief of Staff of the Air Force had this on his reading list. So I pulled it down in my, this is an amazing book, it’s to him, he describes a hairball in an organization, as each hair is another policy that you keep piling on, and over years and years and years, we keep piling on these things, but we never take away, the hairball grows, right? Your job as a person within an organization is to figure out how to stay in that right orbit. You know, because if you come in too brash too, out of sync this and that the system is going to eat you up, you’re out of orbit, and you’re just going to float away. If you’re in too close, you become part of that machine. And you’re now not creating an environment where we need to think differently, we need to maybe be two degrees left to center to look at this differently, get a different perspective. If you’re a nice orbit with it, you’re able to kind of work within this crazy bureaucracy because it’s all–– Brett Gilliland  08:50 Yeah.  Col. Scot Heathman  08:52 But I respect the bureaucracy because I do need it, to a point right? To get the things done I still need my team, my leadership, my higher level leadership to get things done. But I may find a different crazy way to go get it done. You know, so I won’t go too far. But I’ll, I’ll push the envelope. That’s just the way I’ve always been. And I think a lot of my leaders would say that about me is that, “yeah, Scott thinks differently. You know he just, he just does.” And I think that’s what makes me unique. I mean, that’s feedback from them. So… Brett Gilliland  09:24 I love about that is that be present, be bold, be innovative. You know, you mentioned that didn’t come to you for 12 years, 12, 13, 14 years. And I think as humans we go around like you hear people talk about these missions. And you know, we have ours here on the back of the microphones future greater than your past. Right? And I think we hear that and it’s like, oh, well, ___ has had that forever, or Scott’s just had that forever, but I think it comes with trial and error. But I also think it comes from being present, right? Being bold. I gotta go out there and make things happen and I gotta go read books. I got to be a student in the game. You have to be present, you got to take action, right? And then being innovative is always thinking of a different way to do something to your orbit comments, right? Being, and so when I hear those three words for you, it really hits me to, to all the people that are out there listening that maybe they’re looking for that purpose, or they’re looking for that mission. I think sometimes it just hits you like a ton of bricks wouldn’t you agree? Col. Scot Heathman  10:21 Oh, absolutely. Matter of fact, the first leadership position as a young officer, you’re kind of put in first couple years in the military, you’re usually like just trying to learn your craft, be really good at your craft, but you’re an officer. So you’re still expected to lead whether that’s yourself, whether that’s five people, or it could be a couple 100. But when you get into a job called Flight Command, you might have a handful of people, some flights are bigger, it just depends on the organization and had a great leader who sat us down. And he gave us this book called Fish. Now this books been around forever. And it’s about the pike fish market, pike street fish market out in Seattle. If you ever seen him, they throw Yeah, you know, a lot of famous people have done it. But it’s a it’s a story about that, where there were four areas. And this is kind of where I got the presents from, it was the first one was choose your attitude. And I think you talked about that. Yeah, right, you got it, regardless of what’s going on. It’s a choice. Alright, so choose your attitude, be present, make their day and play. So those were the kind of the first four criteria that a mentor kind of really laid into me that really resonated. And again, over time, it kind of, you know, morphed to my own maximums and things that I thought would be successful to me. But those four things I think are resonant within, be present, be bold, be innovative, you can have fun within those, you got to choose your attitude within those. You got to recognize people when they’re being innovative, or they found a different way to do a process when somebody was telling them this is just the way we’ve always done it. Brett Gilliland  12:03 Yeah, which I hate that comment. By the way, “it’s just the way we’ve always done it.” Yeah, that doesn’t mean squat man.  Col. Scot Heathman  12:08 It motivates me to actually get under your skin.  Brett Gilliland  12:10 Right? Exactly. Now I’m gonna do stuff that’s gonna make you mad. So and you said, the Choose attitude, I talk about that all the time, as you said, it’s really the top left pillar, if you will, of the circuits of success. But one of my favorite words in the dictionary is the word “choice.” And I’m a huge believer in choice, right? We choose our attitude, we choose our response to circumstances, whether good or bad, and right we can do really, you can get great news, and can still go off the deep end. And they will they say that people are most susceptible to failure after a major accomplishment. And so whether, whether we’re winning a World Series, we’re retiring from a great career, you get that client out there. I always tell people just be careful, right? Be careful, yes. When do we want to celebrate? Yes, we want to be in the moment. But also then stay focus and make the choice to keep your eye on the ball because it can knock you off really, really quickly. So, so when you hear that word “choice” for you what comes to mind? Col. Scot Heathman  13:09 You know, I think it starts with how your day starts, you know, that’s the moment that we get to control. I think of the word control as well. I’m constantly trying to think about what are the things that I can control? And what are the things that I’m not able to control. Because I think that’s where almost turning yourself into a victim comes into play, you choose something you can’t control, and now you become a victim of it. And you head down this bad path. And I think a lot of wellness coaches will talk about that. You know, you do have a choice and so many things in this life. And you know when I talk to folks that are maybe having a tough time we get into that spot of control, you can control. And let’s not worry about the things you can’t, you know, there’s so many things that happen to all of us in this life. It to me, it’s a little bit of a stoic mentality, you know, live your life as if you find out you’re terminally ill tomorrow. How are you going to live today? You know, it’s some people don’t like thinking about maybe, you know, heading down that path. But we all do have an expiration date. You know, that’s something we can’t control. So what I can control today is how am I going to live Wednesday? You know, what am I going to do this morning? It may be just yard work today. And that’s okay. You know, you don’t have to like everything either. You know, the circumstances. I’m not saying, you know, just be joyfully gleefully all your life and nothing. No, bad things happen to people all the time. But I think it’s being able to recognize and understand and be able to manage what is happening, those emotions, and it’s okay, it’s okay to have a really crappy day. You know? It’s okay that maybe it’s a crap week month. Have a couple years. But find ways that you can separate what you control and not control. And I think your choice will be a little bit easier to make. Brett Gilliland  15:09 Yeah. So so let’s talk about that. So you did have that crap day, right? You’ve had that crap day and you had [] next year. Yeah. So the extreme level that thankfully, knock on wood I have not had, but you had a bad day, right? And so kind of walk us through that. So just to give the listeners some perspective of what you’ve dealt with. So when they see this guy that’s got great energy, great attitude, you know, full of all this wisdom, but what was the crap right, stuff that you had to deal with?  Col. Scot Heathman  15:40 I think it’d be hard for people to see that I needed a walker a couple years ago, I couldn’t see I had an eyepatch I had pretty big well, I have still have a really big scar on my head. But yeah, in 2018 we were driving my wife and I were we lived in Spokane, at the time, we were driving to a one of the unit holiday parties, every unit has them every year. So we were driving up to one and we got rear ended at a stoplight. Not too bad, but I got some whiplash and, and through the process of looking at the damage that had been done on my neck, and they did an MRI, of course, and an x-ray and all that. And this is the funny thing. I got a call as I’m sitting in a pre-op appointment for my wife who was going in for hip surgery. And I got a call from the flight doctor and he said, “Hey, I got your MRI back. Do you know you have a brain tumor?” And I’m like, “No, I gotta go. Because they’re calling us back.”  Brett Gilliland  16:45 Yeah.  Col. Scot Heathman  16:46 Like, I had no time to process that. Like, wait a minute, I’m here for my wife. I’m not here for me right now.  Brett Gilliland  16:53 Yeah.  Col. Scot Heathman  16:53 So I walked back. My wife had already been in the doctor–– Brett Gilliland  16:56 Can I pause you real quick on that? So, just think of that, like you have things happen. Right? Like, people I know call them God wings. I mean, so here’s this, I got rear ended, we can look at it choice. Go back to the word choice.  Col. Scot Heathman  17:09 Oh yeah, I was pissed about that car accident.  Brett Gilliland  17:10 I was pissed about that. But now think about that, that might have saved your life. Because would you have gone in and got an MRI? Right? Col. Scot Heathman  17:16 No. I mean, most people in the military are generally healthy. You know, I think you would expect that.  Yeah. I mean, we just don’t get MRIs just to get MRIs, you know? So yeah, I have no idea even to this day, how long that brain tumor has been there. I know roughly the size it was, it was about the size of a ping pong ball, maybe just a little bit smaller. Which is big in the brain, which is big, anything in the brain, and though not good, you know, that shouldn’t be there. And it was deep pushing up against my brainstem, your brainstem was supposed to be nice and kind of round. And it was actually deforming it. But I had no symptoms to my knowledge. Now, I don’t know if I was a boiling frog. And maybe there were subtle ones. I just wasn’t picking up.  Brett Gilliland  17:23 Absolutely.  Sure.  Col. Scot Heathman  18:02 But I had no clue. So we when we got back in the car we started talking about, I just broke down. I was like, what does this mean? Like I, I don’t? I don’t think I can even point to anyone in my life prior to that, that had one. So I’m like, who do I even talk to? And I’m the kind of person like, Okay, let me find somebody that had one. Maybe you can provide, you know–– Brett Gilliland  18:25 Yeah.  Col. Scot Heathman  18:26 Visual learner, right? That need to understand a little bit, but I was lost. And I’m not saying that when these things happen to you you won’t have the same reaction. I think that’s expected. But then you have choices still, right? So I could just play the victim for the next couple years, or however long I’m dealing with this or I can educate myself or, you know, I’m not going to just fake it, you know, I’m going to accept it, and then move forward. So I said, Okay, next few steps here is we got to start seeing specialists, you know, because they’re going to ask for all kinds of MRIs and things like that. I only had six more months left in Spokane, and I already knew that I had been picked to be the commander here at Scott Air Force Base in the summer of 2019. So I called my two star leadership and my four star leadership and certainly cried over the phone. I mean–– Brett Gilliland  19:22 Sure.  Col. Scot Heathman  19:22 You know, they cry, you know, man, I’ll get worked. Whoo. It takes you back. They were so amazing. Yeah. Everything was we’re going to work through this we, not you or it was we’ll work through this, you know, and I had a string of MRIs like almost every month. I have this t-shirt that I bought that says I’ve had so many MRIs now I stick to the fridge. I just bought that recently? Because I got another one that went up in October. But I’ve always tried to find at least some humor in this too, because I think it helps me process a little bit better. Oh, yeah, you know what? I can still choose how I’m gonna act each day, I can still choose to show up to work. I still had to go back to work after hearing that news. I didn’t get the day off. You know, when could I have asked for it?  Brett Gilliland  20:28 Absolutely.  Col. Scot Heathman  20:28 Like, that wasn’t something my boss said, Well, no, no, I had a wonderful boss. But I kept it very tight, a very tight circle around this because I started thinking, who really needs to know this right now? Just a handful of people. It doesn’t affect anybody else. And there’s nothing happening right now. Brett Gilliland  20:48 Because you were still going on nothing was no symptoms, or when like, you had to balance different things like that? Okay. Col. Scot Heathman  20:54 Yeah, up until that point. And then they put me under what’s called do not fly status. So just until they can kind of see what was going on. I didn’t know that that would probably be the last time I flew an airplane was in winter time of 2018. But I got into the simulator a couple times in the spring of 19, just because I’m like, I have my hands on some I got, I still had to take a check ride, which is like a driver’s exam every year that you got to get in. So I still took my check ride, you know, and passed. And, and, but again, those folks that were around me didn’t know, you know, I wanted them to focus on our mission. I was the number two in command at that time. You know, so I was working for a Wing Commander, I had a responsibility, that organization, but I also knew that I could still, he gave me the space to take care of myself too. So and then I instantly surrounded myself with the types of people that I needed. So like I started reaching out to that network of the optimism is the ones that would hold me accountable for not making myself and turning myself into a victim. But the ones that would also be empathetic, right? So I think it’s important that if you face something in your life, you, you look at the network that you have, and start bringing those types of people that you would want to have in your life and bring them closer, because they’re going to provide the humor for you. They’re going to provide the shoulder for it, they’re going to provide just the ear for you. And, and it was great. You know, there were times I needed somebody just to be sarcastic to me and make fun of me that I got a brain tumor, right? It was actually a little bit comforting. So we went through this journey in Spokane, I arrived in late June here, I took command on the 25th of June in 2019. And then a week later, I had another MRI done at Barnes Jewish. And so I had worked to get a new neurosurgeon here in St. Louis from Spokane and got referred to an incredible one. And, you know, one of the best cut men in the industry is, as his colleagues say, and anytime I mentioned Dr. Shucoins named like, Oh, he’s he’s one of the best. He’s kind of The Godfather, from what I’ve heard. Brett Gilliland  23:12 Good to have that in the area.  Col. Scot Heathman  23:13 Oh, yeah. And it’s great to have that type of capabilities around here. You know, it’s not that far of a drive to go in. But, you know, my wife would go in, or there’s certain days where I could just throw myself in. And but it reached a point in January of 2020, I’d had another MRI,  and the doctor said, “Hey, this thing is growing. And we may reach a point here, we’re gonna have to do something. And we had talked about surgery, Gamma Knife surgery, fractionated radiation, you know, there’s, there’s only so many things you can do.” But I kind of had a lot of options here. But we don’t know how things would turn out after that, you know, there’s, there’s death. Brett Gilliland  23:56 And did you know, it wasn’t cancer at that time? Or who knows? So it could have been cancer, it could have been benign, you didn’t know? Col. Scot Heathman  24:02 Where it was located, you know, you’d have to do surgery. So in 2020, in January of 2020, I started getting some numbness in my face on the right side of my face, I started losing a little bit of dexterity in the left side of my body, like something didn’t feel right in my fingers. And I called the doctor and he’s like, I think we need to make make a move here. And he’s like, “What would you like to do?” And I’m like, What would I like you to tell me when I tell you that was the process though, because everybody’s different. Right? And so ultimately, it is your choice surgery. And I think it had grown too big for gamma knife so that we kind of took that one off the table. Or we could try radiation. But the only true way I think to get after the pathology of this thing because I wanted to know what it was, was to really do surgery. So and I think with my health and my young age is 45 at the time I was a good candidate for surgery, you know if I was in my 60s 70s, maybe not, you know, and other other health conditions and things like that. But so we went into surgery on February 13. And, but 2020 of 2020 is before all the pandemic and everything else. Like that’s not even on my mind. No, I know that it’s hit the coast of California. And it’s being talked about in the news, but so a couple days before that, I had a mentor that gave me this boot book, Gerald Holt, who was at the Cardinals game. Yeah, he showed up and he was going to be there for blocking and tackling if something went bad. You know, that way my wife could just focus on taking care of herself and the family and, and he could deal with, you know, Air Force stuff and things like that. So he showed up flew in from Seattle. We had a we had a great night, we went out for drinks night before, you know, nothing too crazy. I should say a couple of nights before I didn’t drink that night. Not supposed to do. Yeah, yeah, it was a couple nights before, went got my hair cut, shave real tight, you know, and I still go into the same barber she still remembers that day. And yeah, went in for surgery at five in the morning. And you’re there for like two hours and like a whole bunch of other people waiting for surgery. And, and I wasn’t scared until they start wheeling you back. I was like, okay. And then I got into the surgery room. And there’s like 10-15 people in this room, massive surgery room, you know, just like you expect clean as can be and, and, and then there’s this resonant, and she starts reading. Hey, this is Jeremiah Scot Heathman, 45 year old male. And all of a sudden, I was totally cool. I was like, You know what? This is like a pre-mission brief. I’ve been through this. She’s–– Brett Gilliland  26:55 It’s not their first rodeo.  Col. Scot Heathman  26:57 Yeah, I’ve gone through 1000s of stories of flying, and you always do a pre-mission brief. Here’s, here’s what we’re doing today. Here’s the weather. Here’s who we’re gonna be through. Here’s the cargo we got, you know, here’s the sequence. She just laid it all out, I’m like “oh” yeah, I felt like it was part of what I do. Yeah, you know, and then the anesthesiologist puts the mask on and they turn me over my left side and, and I remember saying two things to him. And then it was and then blindsided for anything. I said, Whatever you do, don’t take out my movie quotes. I’ve memorized a lot of them. And I remember telling everybody because couple the residents came in and the doctors came in and they said this was a great quote, you said I said, I want everybody to do real good. Brett Gilliland  27:45 To do real good, real good. Col. Scot Heathman  27:46 Then I was gone like within 30 seconds, and it was 10 and a half hours.  Brett Gilliland  27:51 Oh my goodness.  Col. Scot Heathman  27:53 Yeah. So my wife is getting a call every 45 minutes for 10 and a half hours. So and it went pretty good. They got a good portion of it out there’s a little bit just based on location they couldn’t get I ended up losing my hearing on my right side because there was some tumor wrapped around the blood supply. I still to this day cannot feel if you draw a line down the center of my face most of the side like I have–– Brett Gilliland  27:57 So you touch that and you don’t know you’re touching it?  Col. Scot Heathman  28:07 This feels kind of dead. This feels like numbness Novocaine all day long. Like on a pain scale. To me, it’s like three but you might say it’s like a six or seven. Yeah, it’s nerve pain. These nerves are huge in your face.  Brett Gilliland  28:33 Oh, yeah.  Col. Scot Heathman  28:34 And they heal very slowly. And I can’t chew on that side because I can’t feel my teeth. I can’t feel half my tongue. I can’t feel my nostrils. So you can COVID Test me over here. And I’m good. Shove it all the way up there.  It’s just, you know, some things I wasn’t expecting. Although we talked about some of this. It just, it just hit. I couldn’t walk hardly at all. And I couldn’t get up with a walker and needed help. I couldn’t see, I had double vision. So right I was a little bit off. So the first couple months I wore the eyepatch, because it was just it was really hard. Yeah, it was reading like this. And so in the months to follow, you know, I came out of my command job. And the number two rolled in to be the commander guy who, you know, is a brother to me, Joe. And he’d been there before he had a three, three or four months stint as a commander because we had a gap when I came in. So he just took over. I mean, that’s what you do you create an organization that something happens leader who can take care of the team. I didn’t have any worries about that. I wondered, and they knew me well enough so they took away my computer, my workflow. They didn’t want any distractions. They wanted me to focus but leading up to that I did call leading up to surgery I did call someone on, we had been through a brain surgery a little different. And I said, “How did you manage communication like with your team?” When did you tell your team because even with my team at Scott, I have not told, really anybody but my closest commanders about it. And that was five of them, and then our vice commander, so it makes six total. I didn’t tell our squadron commanders until about a week prior. And I just said, “Hey, I just want you to focus on your people in the mission. I’m going to be fine. Prayers are good. love and support. It’s great. Send it my way, I could use it.” But, you know, of course, it was. that was an awful conversation. Just it was emotional, ya know. But the outpouring was just incredible. You know, even though I couldn’t see, I couldn’t hardly talk, you know, just there’s so many things. But you have a choice again? Are you going to play the victim card? And say, poor me every day? Now not to say that I didn’t ask that question. I think anybody in that situation would say that an athlete that goes down for a life, or a year long injury, might say, “Why me?”  Brett Gilliland  28:47 Yeah.  Yeah.  Col. Scot Heathman  28:49 I absolutely expect that reaction. But the really good ones don’t stay too long. They move through it. Brett Gilliland  31:31 Can I ask questions, so well, so I hear that, right? And that sounds easy to say, I’m not gonna say why me and I have a choice. And people can sit here driving. Alright, these guys about choices. But it’s hard, right? You’re dealing with just terrible stuff. And so what was it like when it’s you, it’s Scot Heathman been sitting in a bed by himself? And the dark thoughts come in? Right? How did you get through the dark thoughts to the positive thoughts? Col. Scot Heathman  32:04 I always tried to learn something. I actually was trying to read pretty early on, you know, even when I was in the ICU, you know, I was able to get to a point where I could text, some people and things like that. But I always tried to go to a place of learning. Like, again, just being curious, like, I can sit here with this thought, but I don’t want this thought because this makes me uncomfortable. So let’s just go somewhere where I can go learn something. And this book, funnily enough, this was the first book I read, when I could, you know, I was holding it up like this, you know, and, and, you know, page by page looking at it took me forever to read, I used to be a really fast reader. And now it’s, it takes me a little bit longer. You know, this is an interesting book, this keep going, because it’s about how an artist deals with the monotony of creating something, and then they do. And then they gotta do it again. Again, how do you keep going, when bad things happen when you hit a block in your life and this or that he’s got like, 10 different things that he talks about in here and just different things. One of them is everyday is Groundhog Day. How do you, I was about to hit my Groundhog Day, where I’m literally sitting, I’m gonna have to wake up, go downstairs, sit in a chair, probably take two or three naps today. I would love to be able to get out and walk but I just don’t feel like it today. How do you deal with that Groundhog Day? Like, I like to go learn something. I like to watch something that maybe makes me laugh. I like to listen to music that doesn’t depress me, but I listened to a lot of public enemy funny. My old school rap music.  Brett Gilliland  33:49 Yeah, exactly.  Col. Scot Heathman  33:50 You know, I just I found a new love of things that I had loved before, but maybe more intently paid attention to it. And that’s I knew even with a pandemic going on. That’s the furthest thing from my mind. Like, I got to just kind of sit with myself and get centered again. And it’s incredibly hard. But the best thing to do is go learn from others. Whether that’s watching, listen to a podcast, watching a video, maybe making a phone call to somebody I got into meditation, which I’d never really done a lot, wasn’t disciplined enough to do it. You know, I’m kind of, it was hard for me to hold my attention. This forced me to hold my attention for once. And it humbled me too, because I’m all thrust you know, sometimes a lot of you know good vectors here and there. I move pretty fast and I’m motivated to do things and get after action. But this for the first time my life slowed me down enough to just appreciate it. It was almost like the the Ferris Bueller moment, right? Because it might pass you by. So just enjoy. I started enjoying the things that I took for granted a walk.  Brett Gilliland  35:09 So how do you do that? If you haven’t if you didn’t get that little knock, right, that major surgery and you were forced to slow down do that, because a lot of us, thankfully right aren’t forced to do that.  Col. Scot Heathman  35:20 Yeah.  Brett Gilliland  35:20 So how do you, and maybe it’s hard to answer? I don’t know, because you were forced to do it. But looking back, if you go back to 2017 2015, that Scott.  Col. Scot Heathman  35:29 Yeah, how could I have offered that to myself?  Brett Gilliland  35:30 Yeah. How could you have offered that to yourself, then when you didn’t know what you know now? Col. Scot Heathman  35:34 I think it would have been incredibly hard to figure this out. Because I’ll just say right up front, I think we all need life coaches. Yeah. Like, I wish everybody had a coach. I agree. Not a boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, spouse, mom, or dad, I’m just I’m talking about a third party perspective, that can listen and ask you very tough questions that you probably haven’t asked yourself yet not talking about a psychologist necessarily, either. But just somebody who can be asked beautiful questions that you probably haven’t really spent some time with before, and then get after these things. And that’s hard. So, you know, we say a lot to people like, oh, go find a mentor. That’s incredibly hard to find a mentor. And that’s a tough phrase to say to somebody. But I think where you can start is with peers. And I think a lot of people look at peers, as competitors. airmen look at peers, everybody’s trying to get to that next promotion, right? There’s competition in everything. But there’s also a lot that a peer can do for you, especially somebody that has a completely different perspective than you. Maybe different upbringing, maybe different culture, maybe different demographic, whatever it may be. Some of the best mentors thought I was their mentor, but they’re actually mentoring me. You know, that’s, I have a couple airmen where I’m like, and I tell them this, you guys have no clue you guys are mentoring me? I’m not the one mentoring you. So it really is amazing to see where these superpowers from peers and others can actually invade your life in a positive way. You know, and I think that’s where I would start is through peer group, maybe it’s a church group, maybe it’s a volunteering together, you know, go to a non-traditional entity outside of work, where you can maybe find some perspective. Brett Gilliland  37:37 Yeah, I’m a big believer, it’s actually funny. I think you read my notes, I wrote down support system and mentors versus coaches. Yeah. Because I think there’s a difference in that support system is my support system at home, I know, I’ve got my support system at home, my wife is my rock. She’s there, she she supports me, she challenges me, there’s that. Then there’s mentors, people I can learn from, right, whether it’s books I read, or podcasts or listened to, or just people that I know that I can, hey? I got questions, man on this, right? Yeah, never think I know it. But then there’s the level that I’ve had for years of coaching, I physically put my money, where my mouth is I hire that person, to not tell me what I need to hear, but to tell me what I tell you what I need to hear, not what I want to hear. Right. And I think that there’s a big difference in that. And if you look at the best athletes in the world, or the biggest business leaders in the world, they have that person in their corner that they’re paying money for. Yeah, that’s there for them. Col. Scot Heathman  38:31 And it doesn’t always have to be someone that is like, in my world a superior, you know, to me, you know, I would look for a general officer. No, it could be somebody lower ranking, then yeah, if you’re going to use a hierarchical type structure. Yeah, I do think there is a difference. Because, you know, a coach may be looking to guide you a little bit more towards a vision that you’re trying to get to, and that maybe not necessarily dealing with a, a personal situation and medical situation, like I described here. But I also had to kind of put myself in perspective that like, I’m just one story, you know, and and I think that’s why I decided to be a little bit more public about what happened. Maybe my brain tumor to somebody, it’s the loss of a boyfriend, girlfriend, an 18 year old who thinks that’s the end of their world. So you do have to put things in perspective. And I, you know, it’s very easy to say, Oh, well, we have, we should feel bad for him. He just went through brain surgery, you know, my situation in life is nowhere near as tragic. It might be, because that’s all you’ve experienced at this point. So I don’t think I’d ever wanted to get into a situation where people are starting to compare injuries with each other like, well, it’s worse than yeah, it’s like a job you know? No, it’s not about that. But as a as the senior leader as the commander of an Air Force Base, I had a very unique opportunity to show them I’m horrible to I mean, that’s huge.  Brett Gilliland  40:01 That’s huge.  Col. Scot Heathman  40:02 Yeah, it you cannot, you cannot generate trust like you can with a vulnerable leader. Like, you should be vulnerable enough to walk into a meeting someday and say, You know what I am, I just want to let everybody know, I am off my game today. I do want to have this meeting. But if I’m quieter than normal, don’t take this personal. I’m just off. I’m okay though. Or I might need a, we might need to do some puppet golf today, just later, than just I’m just saying, you know, but go through your day, just by saying that nugget, you now have taken down the walls, that conspiracy theories are going away about what’s happening with you. And they now see you as human, not a CEO, as a Wing Commander. And for the first time they go, “ah, they have things going on their life, too.” They are human or human horse we are, but we tend to forget that when–– Brett Gilliland  41:00 I think, don’t you think as men too, I think sometimes we want to be that tough guy. And yeah, and so I’m raising my wife and we have four boys. And it’s like, I want my boys to understand that it’s okay to be transparent. It’s okay to be vulnerable. It’s okay to have weaknesses and, and share those things. You know, I share apps, which I’m sure off podcasts, you could help me with my you know, my weakness was this fear of flying, that manifested in anxieties and just different things that I dealt with for years. I mean, I went eight years without flying and just flew just last month for the first time. And I’m talking to a guy that’s flown, you know, million times a billion miles. And let’s go fly sometimes. Absolutely. Yeah, I know, I gotta get used to getting on another airplane on Monday. But you know, so you gotta get used to that. But again, I think I was struggling, I can’t share that. You know, I’m tough. I’m this leader. But I found the more I shared my, my airplane, my anxiety, the more a person across table me would share their thing, right, that whatever their airplane was, they would share that. And I think those words transparent vulnerability, transparency and vulnerability are huge. Col. Scot Heathman  42:06 I think they are, I’m a Patriots fan. I’m that’s hard to say in this region. Brett Gilliland  42:14 I’m a Tom Brady guy. So it may be hard for you. I’m a big time. Col. Scot Heathman  42:17 It’s been interesting to watch how he’s been given a little bit more ability to be open, and the vulnerability is coming out. But you know what? He’s always been that way though. This, this didn’t happen overnight. Yeah. Brett Gilliland  42:30 I’m curious what he’s, what he’s walked away from right now, what are these personal reasons he’s left the team for is what I want to know. Col. Scot Heathman  42:35 But you know what, I don’t care. Right. So why is it our business?  Brett Gilliland  42:40 It’s not. Yeah.  Col. Scot Heathman  42:41 But we’d like to say, yeah, what’s, what’s the athlete doing. But it was fun to watch his series. And look, whether you love or hate Tom Brady, you got to respect the guy be honest about what was going on. I mean, I think he think he killed a lot of sports writers stories with that series. And I think he wanted to do that. I think he reached a point where he’s been wanting to do this for a while. And this was a great outlet for them. And I think he did it with a lot of respect. He didn’t pull punches when he didn’t have to, but, you know, so I just I respect that. I’m looking forward to watching the year one, two, I think, did you ever once probably pretty good. I do like these kind of myopic pieces because I think this is when they’re at their most vulnerable and, and–– Brett Gilliland  43:30 We’re gonna go in the brain of one of the, you know, arguably the greatest athlete like you said of all time, and it’s what made them tick. It’s incredible.  Col. Scot Heathman  43:37 Yeah, if you if you at least just see behind the scenes a little bit I like to say below the waterline right the iceberg, right? We all judge judge each other on the 10% we’ll see and if you could get just a little bit below that iceberg. That’s the leaders I actually appreciated the most.  Brett Gilliland  43:53 I mean, think you get the Jordan one you get the Brady one. Now you get the Jeter one. It was incredible. I don’t know who’s next? Michael Phelps? I like to see a Michael Phelps one.  Col. Scot Heathman  44:02 Oh Michael Phelps would be good.  Brett Gilliland  44:07 I mean he’s the goat right, I mean think 18 metals or whatever he’s got. Wayne Gretzky would be awesome.  Col. Scot Heathman  44:12 You know he’s a pretty seems to be a pretty private but I, you know, it’s killing me you know, as I’m going through everything with the brain surgery and some it’s key escapes my mind now the St. Louis Blues player who went down with a with a injury last, two years ago, three years ago? Brett Gilliland  44:32 I don’t know the blues well enough. I want to add it to show next blues fans we are gonna get murdered by the–– Col. Scot Heathman  44:43 He had this like fluke injury, and I’m going to look them up again because I get, my short term memories a little off due to some of the meds I’m on but he went down with a with a kind of a life threatening injury which pulled them out of the game. And I thought about him honestly, I’m like, You know what I would love to do, sit down and talk with him and share stories of how he dealt with it. You know, because when you look at, again, Tom Brady going down with a season ending injury, where I felt was like, Yeah, I, I wanted to be with my team, I felt like I let them down. And that’s such an awful thing to say about yourself, right? Some people would say, Oh, that’s a little bit selfish. Now, I don’t look at it that way. I just viewed it as this is my responsibility to go down as the leader. I’m not supposed to do that, you know. And just like any great quarterback, I want to be back in that game. And so after the surgery, I literally was in a walker, eyepatch, you know, eyepatch was kind of cool. You know, to start off with a walker and, and funny enough, so I, you know, I briefly talked about my wife, you know, when she was going to have hip surgery in January of 2019. She actually had a full hip replacement in November––  Brett Gilliland  46:00 Oh my gosh. Col. Scot Heathman  46:01  Of 19. So before my surgery, she had a full hip replacement, and healed up enough to the point where, Okay, my turn now, you know, I’m going under. And so she’s, you know, she, my mom, you know, friends would be out there walking with me. And little by little, finally got rid of that walker, got the cane. And my vision started to get a little bit clearer. It was clear when it looks straight up, but it was blurry when I looked straight out. It started to come down and I saw a couple eye experts and they said, it’s going to be okay, it’s going to come back into alignment. About four months later. It did. Brett Gilliland  46:39 So right now you and I looking at each other? Col. Scot Heathman  46:41 Yep, we’re good. I’ve had a couple of prescription changes, but I don’t, I didn’t have to get any prisms and things like that to really ensure glasses before I did.  Brett Gilliland  46:50 Okay. Yep. Yep.  Col. Scot Heathman  46:51 So pretty normal their periphery I’m good. Like I said, don’t have any hearing on this side, a little shaky at times. But that was to be expected with all the ear work the end doctor had to do when they had me open. And because he had to make some room for the neurosurgeon to get after that tumor. And then once we did the pathology, I don’t know cancer, but it’s an it’s an aggressive growing tumor. So we got to really watch it. And they couldn’t get it all. You know, they got it like, 80% of it. They said, You know, we would like to go after the rest of this with radiation. So here I get done with surgery as, had of surgery on the 13th of February, out of the hospital on the 16th of February. You know, spent the next two months, getting my feet back underneath me a little bit. A lot of occupational therapy right over here. Occupational physical speech. Luckily, a lot of that came back. I feel like I slurred like it feels like there’s a tennis ball in my mouth. Or like, it’s my face is sliding off. But I know–– Brett Gilliland  46:51 See I would have no idea.  Col. Scot Heathman  48:02 I look fairly normal. Yes, whatever normal is right?  Brett Gilliland  48:06 Right, right.  Col. Scot Heathman  48:07 But I knew that I was going to go down this path of radiation and like, here’s another battle. All right, gotta gear up. And so I started, I actually got to a point where I was running again, you know, about July timeframe. I started jogging.  Brett Gilliland  48:22 Wow. Col. Scot Heathman  48:23 Just an actually took a practice physical therapy test just to see if I could do it, you know, sit ups, push ups and run a mile. Okay. Think I could pass? I didn’t run a straight line. Yeah. All over the place. And, you know, but I stayed in my lane pretty good. And but it was just me, I’d go there on a Saturday or I’d walk on the soccer field, I do some balance exercises and things like that, that they taught me to do. And, but it was hard. It was really hard. But I knew an August timeframe, I need to go back in radiation. So August 10, I started radiation and what that compass was 30 rounds. Brett Gilliland  49:00 August 10, as of last year or as of like seven days ago?  Col. Scot Heathman  49:03 Of 2020.  Brett Gilliland  49:03 Okay.  Col. Scot Heathman  49:04 Yeah. So six months after the surgery, healed up enough to go back down to St. Louis. So I drove every day, back and forth to the seitan center downtown, downtown St. Louis. See my buddy Lamont, who checks you in and he’s a huge Cardinals fan. But boy, you couldn’t ask for anybody better at that front desk just to get you a high five because when you go in that waiting area, you’re there with people who are terminal. People are getting chemo on top of it. I mean, you’re now the customer. And you see the bell. Brett Gilliland  49:37 Ring the bell. So where are you at today? So what what is, as we fast forward to that?  Col. Scot Heathman  49:42 Went through the radiation that you know, radiation is not a good thing, does damage to good cells too. So I think that kind of hurt some things in the face and that but, you know, I knew that was a possibility you’re going to get to now manage what you got. I stopped long ago. I’m trying to get back to my pre-surgery normal and say, You know what, this isn’t about pre-surgery normal anymore. It’s about living life with what you got now normal. Yeah, it’s a little different brains rewiring itself and healing and doing good. So, so far, they haven’t seen any growth. So I’ll go I’m now doing about every nine months. They’ve been extended from six months to nine months, which is a good thing.  Brett Gilliland  49:44 That’s great.  Col. Scot Heathman  49:48 Yep. So go down and get another picture taken meet with everybody. I’ll stay with the neurologist to kind of help see how we can manage the pain and but doing good. You know, I don’t want to say like that was the only reason why I decided to retire, I think it was a big reason. Because I wanted to make sure that I’m, I’m able to center myself a little bit more, also be there for my family. We’ve moved every year, every two years for the last decade. Plus, I’ve got a special needs kid who’s on the autism spectrum, you know, and I’m like, I don’t want to move him again in. He’s got to think about that. He’s okay. Yeah, he’s a senior this year at Masuda. This is the longest school system he’s ever been in, ever, you know, two years up to that point, was the longest time he’d spent in any school. And a lot of times, it was just a year, because we were moving. And, and I think he, he’s looking at college at Webster, he wants to get into film and that and I’m like, I want to be around for that, you know, and have that time and freedom. So so I just said, What can I be doing? After the military? Well, my love and passion, my why is to elevate others. Like, that’s where my joy is, you know. Venture Creative  51:38 You have 25 years of showing that because that’s what got you to be a commander at one of the largest air force bases in the country. Is elevating others. Col. Scot Heathman  51:47 I love this community. I love the fact that we get to stay here and bought a house in Shiloh and we’re just we’re loving this area, we’re just right down the road. But it’s been a, I wouldn’t want it any other way. Brett Gilliland  52:01 Awesome. Here’s my takeaways. Man you got you things right, you got these big bags, when people talk about carrying these bags, whether you call them your skeletons, whatever these things in your closet, but you’ve got these bags that you carry around with you. And it’s amazing to me that, I hope the listeners can hear from this incredible story that you’ve got all these reasons why you can have a victim attitude, right? All the things you got to deal with in your life and you’ve chosen, go back to that word, right, you’ve chosen to not do that. And I think that just shows you the power of the human body. I mean, think think about what you’ve dealt with, right? Literally, your sight has come back, you’ve cut your head open and gone into your brain, and I mean, it’s just amazing the power that we have, right that we sometimes we just let it sit on the shelf. And we don’t go do anything with it. And it’s really amazing. It really is. And so that’s what I would just, you know, try to challenge people and leave with people today is just, man, we’ve got this amazing world we live in and and if we can turn this crap off, right, turn off if those people aren’t watching, but turn off your cell phone, turn off the notifications and and turn off these TVs and stop getting all the crap that’s absolutely dealt to us every single day. And start thinking about the things that we’re grateful for. The personal mission that we can have and how strong our bodies really are. But it comes back to us taking the choice and taking the action to go do something about it. And that’s what you’ve done.  Col. Scot Heathman  53:32 You got to believe in it. Right?  Brett Gilliland  53:33 Yeah, there you go. Baby. Ted Lasso. Col. Scot Heathman  53:35 I love Ted Lasso. So yeah, you know, but you do you have to believe in it. There’s so many people working against you that are on social media. I’m gonna surround myself with the right things in making the positive deposits and get rid of that negative side it’s still going to be there. But I’m going to make sure that I’m not in a debit. Yeah, yeah. Being a credit on the other side. So that, you know, that’s that’s the key, I think right there. And I didn’t do it alone. So when you you cannot do all this alone. You’ve got to surround yourself with some people. And if you don’t know where to go, start at home, start with a caretaker, start with a best friend from college you haven’t talked to in 10 years. Reach out, you know, reach out, you know, and there’s so much help out there. Sometimes the menus a little too big. I think people get a little flabbergasted by oh my gosh, it’s so much help, mental health help. And this and that. Keep it simple. Just keep it simple. And, and there’s a lot of services out there that are free. And this is somebody that can listen to a professional, you need to start there. I’m fully on board with that kind of stuff. Brett Gilliland  54:45 Love it. Well, a Colonel Scott Heathman, where can we find more of you, man? Are you on social media? You got websites where?  Col. Scot Heathman  54:53 Yeah, I mean, so most most of the things you can look up just Jay Scot Heathman, you’ll find me on LinkedIn, you’ll find me on Facebook. Like I said, I’ve just started a business called Elevating Others, so elevating-others.com. And yeah, you’ll find me out there like said I’m trying to grow this next venture and I’m loving the process.  Brett Gilliland  55:13 Love it, man. Well, thank you so much, one for being here today but thank you for 25 years of your service. And I think I would like to end with one more thing. You had a pretty cool day. Those that can’t say, well, maybe on this camera right here we can see that Cardinal hat on the right. It’s got my boy Jason Isringhausen on there. Yeah. And you had a pretty cool experience with Jason didn’t you? Col. Scot Heathman  55:32 Yeah, it was, uh, you know, the surprise squad the KML V surprise squad and you know, they just… Brett Gilliland  55:37 Which is the Channel Four News here locally in St. Louis. Col. Scot Heathman  55:39 Yeah, it was. I didn’t expect it. It was completely unexpected. They got me, that’s hard to do. They surprise me and yeah, Jason came out and, you know, delivered a baseball and said, “Hey, you’re gonna go throw out the first pitch.” And it was the first game the Cardinals had under the pandemic where they finally let people back in. And yeah, they flew in one of my mentors and I threw a strike. It was beautiful. I was not going to throw a ball. I watched all those videos because I was like I am. I’m gonna show this team I can throw this baseball. But yeah, it was just a beautiful day. And Paul Goldschmidt gave me a beautiful message. I was just sad. I never got to like meet that, it was still under COVID.  Brett Gilliland  56:23 Yeah.  Col. Scot Heathman  56:25 I would love to just said thank you to him again. But at some point, you know, we’ll, maybe we’ll find a way. Brett Gilliland  56:31 We will make that happen. And we will either go grab lunch or if you’re a golfer, you golf? Col. Scot Heathman  56:37 You know swinging the club is a little tough right now.  Brett Gilliland  56:40 All right. Well, maybe we’ll we’ll go grab some, Yeah, we’ll go grab a drink. We’ll bring Izzy along and we’ll make it happen.  Col. Scot Heathman  56:47 Bourbon anytime. Brett Gilliland  56:47 That’s right. Let’s do it. Well, again, man, thanks so much for being with us on The Circuit of Success, tons of takeaways today for me, and I know for our listeners as well and just appreciate you and your service man.  Col. Scot Heathman  56:56 Thank you, Brett. Thank you for having me here today. The post Col. Scot Heathman Doesn’t Bring His Best Self to Work Every Day, and That’s a Part of His Leadership Mantra appeared first on The Circuit of Success with Brett Gilliland.