Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

I recently did two terrific interviews (Podcasts #92 and #111) with Stephanie James on her superb radio show and podcast, The Spark. Today, Fabrice and I are bringing you my third and final interview with Stephanie, as we describe how to convert conflicted relationships into loving, rewarding ones. Stephanie said it was her favorite interview, although all three were really fun for me. Today you will once again hear how dynamic, warm and positive she is! My first interview with Stephanie was on the amazing inner power we all have to change our thoughts, feelings, actions, and lives. We talked about how to transform your automatic negative thoughts and create a more joyful present and a more fulfilling future. My second interview with Stephanie was on the evolution of traditional Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) into the new TEAM-CBT. We highlighted the amazing new motivation-busting techniques that can lead to extraordinarily rapid recovery. Stephanie also recently interviewed our beloved colleague, Dr. Matthew May, a psychiatrist who is a phenomenal TEAM therapist. Click here if you'd like to take a look and listen. Matt has worked with Fabrice and me on our podcasts--you may remember the amazing and inspiring podcasts featuring live therapy with Marilyn. Stephanie is a outstanding therapist and radio personality from Colorado. It was an honor to be on her show on three occasions. Stephanie is co-authoring a book on how to live a “spark-filled life.” It should be completed soon, so you’ll likely be hearing much more from Stephanie during 2019!

This dynamic interview covers the integration of TEAM-CBT with Christianity as well as Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, the Muslim faith, and more. Mike, Fabrice and I describe many areas of overlap, as well as some potential conflicts, between the teachings and methods of TEAM-CBT and religious beliefs. Mike and I suggest that religion and TEAM-CBT are, in fact, attempting to do the exact same things using slightly different language and symbolism. We strongly agree that at the moment of recovery, a person’s religious beliefs are nearly always strengthened and deepened, and never challenged or belittled. Mike, Fabrice and I also discuss topics like religious scrupulosity, religious obsessions, cognitive distortions (John 8:32: “The truth will set you free”), and the so-called “dark night of the soul” described by Christian and Buddhist mystics. We also talk about the spiritual and psychological aspects of enlightenment (e.g. salvation), Should Statements, the Disarming Technique, forgiveness, repentance, the death of the ego, pride vs. humility, and more. If you have an interest in religious or philosophical topics, you will love this podcast! You might also enjoy the podcasts with Marilyn on what to do when you've lost your belief in God and find yourself in darkness and intense suffering! Mike Christensen treats individuals throughout Canada via teletherapy and also offers online training for mental health professionals throughout the world. If you have a question for Mike, or wish to contact him, you can find him at www.FeelingGoodInstitute.com.

Fabrice and I were thrilled to interview our dear friend and colleague, Stephen Pfleiderer, who is the first therapist in the world using TEAM-CBT techniques in the treatment of habits and addictions, including life threatening addictions, like intravenous heroin or meth marijuana alcohol binge eating procrastination smoking internet porn and more Stephen begins with his personal story of excessive beer drinking starting in high school through his junior year in college when he hit a personal crisis, telling himself, "My life sucks. I can't live like this. I'm a loser." He decided to enter a 12-step recovery program, which helped tremendously, and eventually joined David's weekly TEAM training group at Stanford because of his dream of becoming a professional addiction therapist and interventionist.

Rebroadcast of a fabulous interview David did recently for “The Upgrade” Podcast (sponsored by the popular Life Hacker website with hosts Melissa Kirsch and Alice Bradley on a range of topics, including: Why did you write Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy? Is depression caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain? What’s your experience with electro-convulsive therapy (ECT)? Why did you give up your research career in biological psychiatry? How can you tease out your negative thoughts when you know you're depressed but you just can’t think of any thoughts? How does TEAM-CBT differ from conventional CBT? Can you use TEAM-CBT with severe problems, or is it only for individuals with mild mood disturbances?

1. Steven asks about the best route to take if you want to learn and practice TEAM-CBT? Is the degree important? What's the best degree? Should you go to school to become a psychologist,  clinical social worker, addiction counselor, psychiatrist, professional counselor, pastoral counselor, marriage and family therapist, life coach, or what? There are so many degrees and potential paths that my head is spinning! 2. Sandy asks how to overcome long-standing, entrenched perfectionistic tendencies. 3.  Rin asks about the Burns Depression checklist and the criteria for depression in the DSM. He is (understandably) confused about the so-called "somatic" symptoms of depression, like insomnia or changes in appetite. For example, some “experts” would argue that the following are all symptoms of clinical depression: insomnia or the opposite—sleeping too much; increased appetite or the opposite--decreased appetite; loss of interest in sex, or the opposite, sex addiction; loss of interest in work, or the opposite, being a workaholic. How can opposite symptoms be symptoms of depression? Does this make sense? Are these really the symptoms of depression, or simply non-specific symptoms? What are the five key symptoms of real depression? 4. Kevin is a therapist with a simple question: How do I get over my desire to help? 5. Amanda asks how to use the Disarming Technique with a patient who thinks he or she isn’t making any progress in the therapy.

One of the goals for our Feeling Good Podcasts is to bring the TEAM-CBT techniques to life for mental health professionals, patients, and the general public as well. I (David Burns) use more than 50 Techniques when I'm working with individuals with depression, anxiety disorders, relationship problems, or habits / addictions. Today we will compare and contrast the four Truth-Based Techniques, including: Examine the Evidence The Experimental Technique The Survey Technique Reattribution These were among the first cognitive therapy techniques ever developed, and they were based on the work of Dr. Aaron Beck, from Philadelphia, as well as Dr. Albert Ellis, from New York. Dr. Ellis is the Grandfather of Cognitive Therapy, and he described many of these techniques in the 1950s. He called his treatment Rational Emotive Therapy, and it's still popular today. During the 1960s, Beck, who is considered the Father of Cognitive Therapy adapted the ideas of Dr. Ellis to the treatment of depression, and called his version of the treatment Cognitive Therapy. Beck emphasized that depression results from a negative view of the self, the world, and the future. In other words, the patient may think: I'm a loser. (negative view of the self) Nothing i do will be successful or rewarding. (negative view of the world) Things will never change. I'm hopeless. (negative view of the future) Beck claimed that the negative thoughts of the depressed individual are the actual cause of the depression. He also emphasized that the disturbing negative thoughts of depressed patients are nearly always distorted and illogical; however, depressed individuals don’t realize that they’re fooling themselves, so they think their negative thoughts are absolutely valid. Beck also claimed that depression could be treated without drugs in many cases, and focused his treatment on challenging the patient's distorted negative thoughts. Beck often compared depressed patients to scientists who have a theory about the world that simply isn’t true. That's why scientists learn to test their theories by examining evidence and performing experiments. Beck suggested that depressed patients could also test the validity of their negative thoughts and beliefs by examining the evidence for and against what they're telling themselves, as well as by doing actual experiments to test their thoughts and beliefs. David and Fabrice bring the four basic truth-based techniques to life with actual patient examples. They answer the question, "What's the difference between Examine the Evidence and the Experimental Technique?" And "How does the Survey Technique work?" They emphasize the tremendous importance of warmth and empathy, as well as melting away patient resistance, before trying to implement any of these techniques. They also emphasize that these techniques, like all of the techniques, are powerful, and must be used with skill and compassion, or else they can backfire.

This is the second of three interviews with Stephanie James on her superb radio show and podcast, The Spark. Stephanie is an experienced therapist and dynamic radio personality from Colorado. She is co-authoring a book on how to live a “spark-filled life.” This interview with Stephanie focused, in part, on the evolution of the new TEAM-CBT from traditional Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Stephanie asks Dr. Burns questions on a wide range of topics, including: How would you treat a case of social anxiety? What is “therapeutic whitewashing” and how can therapists get over it? What should therapists do instead? How would you work with violent incarcerated teenagers, such as gang members? Why is it so important for therapists who are learning TEAM-CBT to check their egos at the door? After you published your first book, Feeling Good, and the first research study on CBT was published, cognitive therapy swept the world. After your initial euphoria, your enthusiasm dimmed somewhat. Why? And what new direction did your research lead? What are the most common errors that therapists make in thinking about the causes of therapeutic resistance? How can you overcome a patient’s resistance to change? Can TEAM-CBT work rapidly for someone with horrific abuse and decades of failed therapy? How can you prevent relapses following the patient’s initial recovery? Dr. Burns' third interview with Stephanie will be on the interpersonal TEAM model—how to convert conflicted relationships into loving, rewarding ones.

Fabrice and David address several challenging questions submitted by individuals who listen to the Feeling Good Podcasts. Richard: Do you have to get along with everybody? How do you deal with a sociopath? Dave: Positive distortions can trigger mania, addictions, narcissism, and violence--but how can you get rid of them? Julia: What can you do if you've been depressed all of your life and wake up every morning with your mind flooded with negative thoughts? I spend two hours trying to dispute them, but they just keep coming back the next day. Omhur: How would you treat "Reading OCD?" I feel compelled to read every sentence and paragraph carefully and repeatedly so I won't miss anything! Unnamed fan (who left a negative review on iTunes): Isn't your concept of the death of the ego potentially dangerous to people with low self-esteem who are being abused? Thank you for your terrific questions, your frequent praise, and your occasional criticisms and challenges. They keep us on our toes, and we deeply appreciate all of you. So keep your comments coming, as well as your suggestions for shows and topics you want to hear more about! We are receiving more than 50,000 downloads a month. Please tell your friends about us so we can continue to build our audience. Thanks! We really enjoy doing these shows for you.  

A podcast listener asked about what techniques David is the most proud of. We briefly discuss each one on today’s podcast. So here they are! The list of Ten Cognitive Distortions The Disarming Technique and Law of Opposites The Externalization of Voices plus Acceptance Paradox The two classic Uncovering Techniques: the Individual and Interpersonal Downward Arrow The Feared Fantasy and Acceptance Paradox The Experimental Technique for extremely rapid treatment of patients with Panic Attacks My published research with colleagues in the mid-1970s did not support the popular notion that depression results from a chemical imbalance in the brain Brief Mood Survey Positive Reframing The use of extended, two-hour therapy sessions  

David emphasizes that there are two issues. First, can your “self” be validly judged as not good enough, as inferior or even worthless? Or, can your “self” be validly judged as more worthwhile, or even superior? And is it really true that some people are more worthwhile, or less worthwhile, than others? Do more worthwhile, or less worthwhile human beings exist? Second, do we even have a “self?” Fabrice talks about the history of the concept of ego. For example, Freud divided the human mind into three parts: the id, ego and superego. Do these really exist as “things,” or are they just concepts, or metaphors for talking about the mind? When you try to think about the “ego” or the “self” as a thing, that’s when you get in trouble. David argues that if you believe that someone people are “more worthwhile” or “less worthwhile,” you’d have to define what a of worthwhile human being is.