Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

David and Jill do A = (Paradoxical) Agenda Setting with Lee, starting with the Invitation: Jill asks Lee if he wants help with the relationship conflict, and if this would be a good time to roll up our sleeves and get to work. Lee indicates that he does want help. They review the first two steps of his Relationship Journal, where Lee had recorded one specific thing his wife said to him, and exactly what he said next. Here’s what he wrote down: Step 1 – She said: Write down exactly what the other person said. Be brief: I was trying to convince my 18-month-old daughter to put her pajamas on. I was calm. Eventually, I raised my voice an octave or two and in a stern voice I told my daughter to put her pajamas on. Afterwards, Liza said, “I don’t think you need to use that tone with a small child.” Step 2 – I said: Write down exactly what you said next. Be brief: I said, “I don’t think there was anything wrong with what I did. You can be stern without losing your shit*. There are times when she needs to know I am serious and not messing about anymore.” It then devolved into a debate over a clash of values on how to raise our daughter. * Transcribed as-is from Lee’s Relationship Journal. Lee also circled all the emotions he thought she was having, along with all of the emotions he was having. He thought she was feeling: Sad and unhappy Anxious and worried Rejected and alone Discouraged, pessimistic, and despairing Frustrated and stuck Angry, annoyed, irritated and upset Other feelings: troubled, defensive, dismayed, downhearted, and disconnected Here’s how he was feeling: Unhappy Anxious and worried Guilty, remorseful, bad and ashamed Inferior, inadequate, defective and incompetent Embarrassed, foolish and self-conscious Hopeless, discouraged and despairing Frustrated Angry, mad, resentful, annoyed, irritated, upset and furious Other feelings: hostile, loud, critical, agitated, defensive, stubborn, exasperated, sarcastic, powerless, diminished, low, resistant, confused, judgmental, vulnerable, inept Step 3. Good vs. Bad Communication. When David and Jill ask Lee to examine his response to his wife, he had to admit that his response in Step 2 had all the characteristics of bad communication—he did not acknowledge any of her feelings, he did not share his own, and he did not convey love and respect. This was disturbing and surprising to Lee. Step 4. Consequences. When David and Jill asked Lee to examine the impact of what he said to his wife, they suddenly ran into a wall of resistance, which is almost universal in relationship work. The Relationship Journal is an incredibly powerful tool, and it can be extremely painful because you have to stop blaming the other person and examine your own role in the relationship. Lee suddenly and painfully discovered the answer to his question of why his wife was so controlling and critical of him—it was NOT because of the influence of her mother, but rather because he was forcing her to treat him like that almost every time he interacted with her. This insight cannot be denied when you do the Relationship Journal, and it’s potentially incredibly empowering, but it can be incredibly painful at the same time. You will also hear a masterful and paradoxical response by Dr. Levitt when Lee resists—and as a result, his resistance suddenly disappears, and he jumps on board!

For the past couple months, Fabrice has asked me to set up a live therapy session to illustrate how to treat troubled relationships using TEAM-CBT. I was fortunate to get an email request from a colleague named Lee who wanted help with his marriage. He explained that his wife was very controlling and critical of him and attributed this to the fact that she had a controlling mother. This is very typical in troubled relationships, most of us are convinced that the problem is the other person’s fault. Of course, Lee told us that his wife, in turn, blames back and feels that Lee is the one who needs to change. Lee initially thought we’d do couples therapy, but in TEAM-CBT we actually prefer to treat just one person in a troubled relationship. Two weeks ago, Jill and I sat down with Lee on a Saturday morning, linking to each other on the internet since he lives abroad, for a three-hour treatment session. The session has been broken down into three separate podcasts plus commentary from Fabrice, Jill and David on each of the three segments. By way of disclaimers, Lee is a colleague who does coaching for individuals with alcohol addiction problems. We are not entering into a formal treatment relationship with Lee. Instead, he has offered to help us illustrate a therapy technique, using a real person problem, as part of his training and personal growth. We are deeply grateful to Lee for letting us share his intensely personal “session” with you! Today, you will hear the first segment on T = Testing and E = Empathy. Lee will tell his story. Jill and I will listen without trying to “help” or “rescue” Lee. On the Brief Mood Survey, he indicated no depression or suicidal urges. He was mildly anxious and slightly angry. His Positive Feelings Survey indicated that he was quite happy except in two areas: He felt only moderately close to people and only slightly connected to others. You will also hear him say that he felt like one of the loneliest people we would ever meet toward the end of the empathy phase of the session.

How to select the techniques that will be most helpful for various kinds of problems, and how to individualize the treatment for each patient.

For a long time, Fabrice has wanted to do a show on my list of "Fifty Ways to Untwist Your Thinking" called "Fifty Ways in Fifty Minutes." So we finally did it, and it was fun! If I'm helping you overcome depression or anxiety, I'll ask you to fill out a Daily Mood Log, so you can list your negative thoughts and feelings at some specific moment when you were upset. You may be thinking, "I'm a failure," or "I should not have made that mistake," or "I'm unlovable." Your negative thoughts will nearly always be distorted, but you'll still believe them, and that's why you're feeling depressed and anxious. And the moment you discover that your negative thoughts aren't true, you'll immediately feel better. But that's not going to be easy, because you've probably been giving yourself the same negative messages for years, or even decades.  And friends and family members, and even your therapist, may have been trying, unsuccessfully, to talk you out of them. That's why I've developed more than fifty methods to help you crush the negative thoughts at the heart of your suffering. So today, you'll take a look at the landscape!

For a long time, Fabrice has wanted to do a show on my list of "Fifty Ways to Untwist Your Thinking" called "Fifty Ways in Fifty Minutes." So we finally did it, and it was fun! If I'm helping you overcome depression or anxiety, I'll ask you to fill out a Daily Mood Log, so you can list your negative thoughts and feelings at some specific moment when you were upset. You may be thinking, "I'm a failure," or "I should not have made that mistake," or "I'm unlovable." Your negative thoughts will nearly always be distorted, but you'll still believe them, and that's why you're feeling depressed and anxious. And the moment you discover that your negative thoughts aren't true, you'll immediately feel better. But that's not going to be easy, because you've probably been giving yourself the same negative messages for years, or even decades.  And friends and family members, and even your therapist, may have been trying, unsuccessfully, to talk you out of them. That's why I've developed more than fifty methods to help you crush the negative thoughts at the heart of your suffering. So today, you'll take a look at the landscape!

I recently did the first of three interviews with Stephanie James on her superb radio show and podcast, The Spark.  Here’s how Stephanie described the interview (with minor changes): We have amazing power within us to change our thoughts, our feelings, our actions, and our lives. This episode is an inspirational way to take control of your automatic negative thoughts today and transform them in order to create a more joyful present and a more fulling future. Join us as we talk with the legendary Dr. David Burns about how we can break through the old thinking habits that bind us and begin to live a more happy, harmonious life where we can feel good now. Stephanie is a superb therapist and dynamic radio personality from Colorado. It was an honor to be on her show. She is co-authoring a book on how to live a “spark-filled life.” It should be completed soon, so you’ll likely be hearing from Stephanie a lot next year! Following the interview, Stephanie visited my Tuesday training group at Stanford and participated in one of our Feeling Good Podcasts with some students in the group. She suggested we might want to broadcast the Tuesday group live so that therapists from all over the world could join us. We are thinking about that, but will have to check with the powers that be to see if we could get permission to broadcast from Stanford, as well as our Tuesday group members who may have mixed feelings, due to the intensely personal nature of the training. Let me know what you think about this idea! My second interview with Stephanie was on the evolution of traditional Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) into the new TEAM-CBT. Fabrice and I will publish it for you shortly. My third interview with Stephanie will be on the interpersonal TEAM model—how to convert conflicted relationships into loving, rewarding ones.

I had a magical fantasies of what would happen once I was an “author.” The reality was quite the opposite and quite painful, with almost endless rejections accompanied by feelings of self-pity and defeat. For example, soon after publication, I learned my book was at the top of my publisher's "loser list." Then I discovered that magazines, newspapers, and TV and radio shows had no interest in it whatsoever. I hope you enjoy the story. It’s all about the celebration of failure and the conversion of failure into success.

I was recently interviewed by author, professor, and documentary filmmaker Roy Germano for his outstanding Other Side Podcast. Fabrice and I thought you might enjoy this interview, and Roy graciously gave us permission to share it with you. You will get some personal glimpses into the early days of my career, including why I left academics to pursue a full-time private practice, along with some of controversies about antidepressants. You will also hear a story of what happened when I was trying, rather unsuccessfully, to get my first book, Feeling Good, published. It wasn’t easy, and it almost didn’t happen! Roy is terrific and his podcasts cover a wide range of topics. You can find his podcasts on iTunes.

David and Fabrice answer five intriguing questions submitted by listeners: Joshua: How can I cope with panic attacks during job interviews? Dan: I feel traumatized by criticisms from my boss at work. what can I do? Susan: How fast can you taper off of anti-anxiety drugs and antidepressants? Ross: What if a patient who's been the victim of trauma or abuse asks for a male therapist? Isn't this a form of avoidance? Should patients be matched to therapists based on gender? Isn't it best to avoid the situations that trigger you? Sumit: I think I have "endogenous depression." Can TEAM-CBT help me? Or will I have to rely on medications? What is endogenous depression? If you have a question, make sure you email david and we will try to answer your question on an upcoming Ask David Podcast!