BE THAT LAWYER

Joanne Black, America's leading authority on referral selling, shares her expertise on transforming client relationships. She discusses how vague referral requests fail and emphasizes the need for specific language to guide clients. Accountability and consistent follow-ups build trust, while personal touches like thank-you notes encourage future referrals. Joanne also highlights the importance of clear communication barriers, providing practical strategies to navigate challenges in gaining referrals. She believes that asking for help is a strength in business development.

What separates lawyers who struggle from those who thrive? In this special Part 2 of Be That Lawyer Live, you’ll discover how our guests integrate authenticity, focus, and thought leadership into their daily practice to create long-term growth. You’ll hear how staying true to yourself, choosing opportunities wisely, and turning passions into professional strengths can open unexpected doors. This is not about chasing quick wins—it’s about building a practice that’s sustainable, rewarding, and deeply connected. Lean in, because what you’ll hear today will challenge how you see your career and your future. In this episode, Steve, Tina, John, and Leslee discuss:The importance of authenticity in building and sustaining client relationshipsBalancing personal life, career demands, and business development commitmentsCreative strategies for leveraging events, panels, and thought leadershipMaintaining consistency and momentum in rainmaking efforts over the long term Key Takeaways:Sharing authentic parts of who you are—whether it’s your passions, personal stories, or even hobbies—creates deeper connections with clients and colleagues, making business development feel more natural and sustainable.Learning to say “no” to opportunities that don’t align with your goals or values is just as critical as saying “yes,” because it protects your time, energy, and ability to excel in the areas that truly matter.Positioning yourself as a thought leader through speaking on panels, moderating events, and writing articles not only demonstrates expertise but also consistently attracts the right kind of clients and referrals.Long-term success in rainmaking comes from treating business development as an ongoing habit integrated into daily life, rather than a separate task, so it becomes part of who you are and how you work. "Bottom line, listen. You have to listen to what people are saying… because that is how you end up developing an authentic relationship." —  Tina Martini "You can’t underestimate the trust factor here, the likability factor here, the authenticity factor here… when somebody trusts you and believes in you to such a degree that you can handle their legal matters all under one roof." —  John Sciaccotta "If someone invites you to an event, go… if someone wants you there, be there… and then for me, the biggest thing… is just constant giving. And I’m really, I’m not even like, this is authentically me… always thinking about how to help someone else. " —  Leslee Cohen Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, launching August 25, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Legalverse Media: https://legalversemedia.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About our Guests:Tina Martini is a partner at McDermott Will and Schulte, specializing in intellectual property. [LinkedIn | Website]John Sciaccotta is a partner/lawyer at Aronberg Goldgehn, a business litigator, and past president of the Chicago Bar Association [LinkedIn] | Website].Leslee Cohen is the managing partner at AllRise Legal, working with startups from seed to exit [LinkedIn | Website].Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

What if your legal career could shift from unpredictable to unstoppable simply by changing your approach to relationships and opportunity? In this special Part 1 of Be That Lawyer Live, you’ll hear how our guests weave business development seamlessly into their daily lives, turning everyday interactions into potential gold mines. You’ll discover how being intentional, showing up in the right rooms, and giving more than you take can open doors you never saw coming. This conversation isn’t about quick hacks—it’s about building a sustainable, thriving practice while staying authentic to who you are. Stay tuned, because what you’ll hear today could completely transform the way you think about your career.In this episode, Steve, Tina, John, and Leslee discuss:The mindset required for consistent and effective business developmentTime management and prioritization strategies for building a book of businessNetworking and relationship-building approaches, both in-person and onlineLeveraging unique strategies, associations, and presentations to generate opportunities Key Takeaways:Integrating business development into daily routines—such as keeping a recurring BD calendar reminder—ensures consistent action and prevents missed opportunities.Targeting groups, associations, or events where competitors are absent can create unique opportunities for both direct work and valuable referrals.Building a referral-rich network through bar associations, community boards, and alumni groups can yield substantial long-term results.Creating and offering a targeted, educational presentation to relevant audiences can consistently produce new clients. "Seeing the opportunity even when it looks when it doesn't necessarily look like opportunity is what's so important here." —  Tina Martini"If you don't make the time to build your own book a business, you are always going to be beholden to someone else." —  John Sciaccotta"Anyone is a potential client, and that just has to always be in your mindset." —  Leslee Cohen Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, launching August 25, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Legalverse Media: https://legalversemedia.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About our Guests:Tina Martini is a partner at McDermott Will and Schulte, specializing in intellectual property. [LinkedIn | Website].John Sciaccotta is a partner/lawyer at Aronberg Goldgehn, a business litigator, and past president of the Chicago Bar Association [LinkedIn] | Website].Leslee Cohen is the managing partner at AllRise Legal, working with startups from seed to exit [LinkedIn | Website]. Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jordan Whelan discuss:The evolving landscape of legal marketing and SEO strategiesIdentifying and targeting the right audience through buyer personasLeveraging video, local SEO, and low-cost marketing tactics for visibilityThe role of mindset, metaphysics, and visualization in business growth Key Takeaways:A law firm’s website must be technically optimized and emotionally resonant, clearly communicating its unique value proposition to convert visitors.Targeted marketing—such as divorce ads placed during peak conflict hours on female-dominated radio stations—can dramatically improve campaign effectiveness.Inexpensive tactics like geo-targeted short videos, active engagement on platforms like Quora and Reddit, and cross-platform posting tools can generate steady traffic.Building SEO authority, particularly in local search, creates long-term assets that not only drive business now but also increase the firm’s valuation for future sale. "If you see yourself as someone who’s struggling, you’ll see that reflected to you in the outside world constantly." —  Jordan Whelan Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, launching August 25, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Legalverse Media: https://legalversemedia.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Jordan Whelan: Jordan Whelan is the founder of Grey Smoke Media. With a background as a TV and radio producer and a publicist, he has managed over $3 billion in class action claims communications. He spent a decade mastering media buying (managing over $50 million in spend) and digital marketing, achieving the proverbial 10,000 hours of practice.Under his leadership, Grey Smoke Media helped Diamond and Diamond Lawyers grow from a small practice to Canada’s top injury and real estate law firm. Before rebranding Grey Smoke Media as a legal marketing agency, Whelan worked with publicly traded pharmaceutical companies, the Pan Am Games, Brookfield Asset Management, Intact Financial Corporation, and crypto powerhouses such as Coinsquare.Whelan’s insights have appeared in over 100 international outlets, including The New York Post and Forbes. In his personal time, he is an accomplished singer-songwriter with over 3 million streams on Spotify.Uniquely, Whelan provides metaphysics-based business coaching that blends mindset mastery, wealth expansion, and energetic alignment to help his clients unlock their highest potential. Connect with Jordan Whelan:  Website: http://www.greysmokemedia.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jordanjpower/Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Viktoria Altman is the Founder and CEO of BSPE Legal Marketing, dedicated to enhancing attorneys' visibility through innovative marketing strategies. In this conversation, she emphasizes moving away from random acts of marketing, advocating for focused tactics that resonate with ideal clients. Viktoria also delves into the growing influence of AI on branding and marketing, urging lawyers to build authentic narratives. She highlights the importance of transparency with vendors and the necessity of embracing a growth mindset for long-term success.

Join Matt Dixon, Founding Partner of DCM Insights and co-author of The Challenger Sale, as he delves into the evolving dynamics of client relationships in law. He shares why top rainmakers proactively deliver value before clients are even hired, highlighting a worrisome drop in client loyalty. Dixon stresses that to maintain connections, lawyers should engage with clients beyond formal interactions, leveraging insights over credentials. He also advocates for embracing an entrepreneurial mindset to thrive in today’s competitive legal market.

Stephen Seckler, President of Seckler Attorney Coaching, is an award-winning coach helping lawyers find career satisfaction. He discusses how lawyers can align their personalities with business development and the importance of meaningful networking. Seckler emphasizes the power of authenticity in building a professional brand. He also highlights the need for preparation in networking conversations and the value of clarifying goals for productive interactions. The conversation blends personal insights with practical strategies on transforming legal identity through writing.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Chris Earley discuss:Shifting the lawyer's mindset from traditional practice to intentional business buildingUsing content and social media to establish visibility and credibilityLeveraging coaching, mentorship, and masterminds to level up professionallyBringing authenticity and consistency into legal marketing and personal growthKey Takeaways:Lawyers who develop consistent daily marketing habits—like posting on LinkedIn, asking for speaking gigs, or emailing newsletters—are far more likely to build lasting visibility and client pipelines.Podcasting serves as both a relationship engine and a powerful way to generate long-form, repurposable content that can drive compound exposure across multiple channels.Coaches, mentors, and mastermind groups accelerate growth by providing accountability, guidance, and fresh strategies that lawyers don’t learn in school or from peers.Prioritize personal growth and emotional balance to avoid burnout and sustain momentum, creating space for better decisions, more effective client interactions, and stronger business leadership."The lawyer who creates the most content today is going to come out ahead in the future." —  Chris EarleyReady to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/Thank you to our Sponsor!Legalverse Media: https://legalversemedia.com/Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/About Chris Earley: Christopher Earley is the founder and CEO of Earley Law Group Injury Lawyers, a personal injury law firm located in downtown Boston. He is a thought leader in the legal field who writes monthly for the American Bar Association, and he is also a frequent speaker to audiences of attorneys throughout the country.He hosts The Earley Show Podcast, where he brings on some of the very best attorney-entrepreneurs in the legal industry.He recently released his memoir, Scaling the Wall: One Man’s Journey of Healing Childhood Trauma to Find Fulfillment and Success.When not working on growing and scaling his firm, he enjoys spending time with his wife and two children.He is also a really bad drummer.He strongly encourages lawyers and law students to contact him because he loves teaching and mentoring.Connect with Chris Earley:  Website: https://www.chrisearley.com/Show: The Earley Show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-earley-show/id1703274158Book: Scaling the Wall: One Man's Journey of Healing Childhood Trauma to Find Fulfillment and Success: https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-Wall-Journey-Childhood-Fullfillment/dp/B0DQWFM2DYLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bostonpersonalinjurylawyer/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/earley-law-group-injury-lawyers/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawofficeofchristopherearley/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/explore/locations/104980886333/earley-law-group-injury-lawyers/Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Nick Werker discuss:The importance of proper phone handling in law firm intake processesHow customer experience begins with an intentional communication strategyShifting lawyer mindsets around sales and client engagementThe evolving standards of professionalism and wellness in legal practice Key Takeaways:Solo and small law firms often lose clients due to missed calls or lack of call-forwarding plans, which can be easily fixed with tools like rollover call forwarding.Answering services should align intake scripts with law firms’ CRM systems and help pre-qualify callers without turning anyone away, allowing for both client conversion and effective referrals.Intake staff should prioritize empathy and rapport over data collection, allowing callers to fully explain their problem before asking for details.Lawyers frequently lose potential clients not due to pricing or competence, but due to a lack of communication and failure to follow up after the initial contact."Don’t pressure people, but let them know that you have a solution to their problem and that and why you're the best solution to that problem." —  Nick Werker Unlock the secrets of rainmaking success—join Steve Fretzin and four powerhouse legal experts for Be That Lawyer LIVE on August 27; reserve your spot now at fretzin.com/events. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Legalverse Media: https://legalversemedia.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/About Nick Werker: Nick is the founding marketer and current marketing leader at Answering Legal. Since 2014, Nick has been working to help lawyers improve the way they communicate with their clients, strengthen legal intake, organize messages, create workflows for CRMs, and spread awareness on all things happening in the legal community.When he's not podcasting, building custom GPTs, or thinking about ways to spread the Answering Legal message, he is a strong proponent of self-improvement. He also loves helping friends and community members find business success using marketing strategies.Connect with Nick Werker:  Website: https://www.answeringlegal.com/Phone: (631) 686-9700Email: nick@answeringlegal.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholas-werker/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/answering-legal-inc/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/answeringlegal/Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Ruby Powers, a Board-Certified Immigration Attorney and founder of Powers Law Group, discusses the power of content creation in legal practice. She reveals how strategic repurposing of content can amplify a lawyer's digital presence. Ruby emphasizes the need for personal branding and authentic engagement to foster client relationships. She shares insights on leveraging technology and AI, adapting to challenges in remote practice, and the importance of consistent, engaging content in the ever-evolving legal landscape.