BE THAT LAWYER

In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Robert Armstrong, and Sandy Fisch discuss:Legal expertise without systems limits growthFocus outperforms expansion without infrastructureValue-based models outperform time-based billing in an AI-driven futureFuture-proof firms are systemized, collaborative, and diversified Key Takeaways:Most firms are built by technicians who understand legal work but not business operations. Sustainable firms require deliberate work on systems, strategy, and management.Deep specialization strengthens results, clarity, and scale. Expanding practice areas too early dilutes effectiveness and increases operational drag.Hourly billing weakens as automation accelerates legal work. Flat-fee pricing combined with strong human relationships aligns better with efficiency and client outcomes.Recurring revenue, acquisition-ready structures, and trusted peer communities reduce dependence on individuals. Long-term resilience comes from systems, relationships, and adaptive business models. "There's a difference between working on the business and working in the business." —  Sandy Fisch Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Robert Armstrong: Robert Armstrong is President of the American Academy of Estate Planning Attorneys and co-founder of Armstrong, Fisch & Tutoli, a leading San Diego estate planning firm. A U.S. Navy veteran and summa cum laude graduate of UC San Diego, he earned his Juris Doctor from the University of San Diego in 1976.A recognized thought leader in estate planning, Robert has authored several books, including The E-Myth Attorney, and has been quoted in national publications such as the Wall Street Journal. He frequently appears on television as an estate planning expert.Robert lives in Knoxville, Tennessee, with his wife, Jennifer, and enjoys reading, daily workouts, and time outdoors with his family. About Sandy Fisch: Sanford Fisch is a principal at Armstrong, Fisch & Tutoli, a leading San Diego estate planning firm recognized nationwide for excellence. He co-founded the American Academy of Estate Planning Attorneys to help attorneys and law firms improve their skills and practices.Known for expertise and enthusiasm, Sanford seeks more effective ways to serve clients, support fellow attorneys, and advance the practice of estate planning law across the United States. Connect with Robert Armstrong & Sandy Fisch:  Website: https://www.aftattorneys.com/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Deirdre Nero discuss:Action can precede clarityGrowth requires delegation, not enduranceAuthenticity strengthens leadership and trustExpertise must be valued to be sustainable Key Takeaways:Starting a firm without certainty can still create momentum and direction. Waiting for perfect readiness delays growth more than risk does.Handling every task personally creates a hard ceiling on scale and sustainability. Hiring support is the necessary step to move beyond survival mode.Hiding core aspects of identity fractures credibility and connection. Openness creates deeper trust, healing, and stronger professional relationships.Giving away high-level knowledge undermines both business viability and professional worth. Confident pricing is essential for long-term independence and freedom. "I think honestly that was probably the biggest crime I committed in my firm… trying to do it all myself." —  Deirdre Nero Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Deirdre Nero: Deirdre D. Nero is the founder of NERO Immigration Law, which she established in 2009 after practicing for several years at large domestic and international law firms. She previously led the immigration practice of a major international firm’s Coral Gables office and has deep experience advising individuals and small to mid-sized companies.Her practice focuses on business and family immigration, including employment-based immigrant and nonimmigrant visas, PERM labor certifications, and naturalization. Deirdre represents clients nationwide and around the world, working closely with them to execute immigration strategies before U.S. immigration agencies.Fluent in Spanish and certified at the highest level by the Spanish government, Deirdre is a passionate advocate for immigration reform. She frequently lectures and writes on immigration topics and has lived, studied, and worked in Spain, where she completed legal internships and comparative law research. Connect with Deirdre Nero:  Website: https://neroimmigration.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deirdrenero/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/neroimmigration Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Noel Andrews discuss:Prioritizing others to drive long-term successDelegation as a lever for higher-value workHiring and managing support effectivelyShifting from doing to thinking as a leader Key Takeaways:Sustainable business growth comes from helping team members, clients, and referral partners achieve their goals first. Celebrate client milestones, develop your team, and make introductions without expecting immediate returns. Focusing outward builds trust, loyalty, and lasting relationships that compound over time.Lawyers often get stuck handling admin, marketing, and operations alongside legal tasks. Listing tasks to delegate frees you to focus on work only you can do and grow the firm strategically. Delegation transforms busywork into leverage and career impact.Start with clarity: define tasks first, then map them to a role, location, and level of support. Remote talent in regions like Eastern Europe or South Africa can provide high-quality work at a lower cost. Clear KPIs, meaningful projects, and trust are more effective than micromanaging hours.Resist the urge to control every detail; hire capable assistants to own outcomes. Delegating at a high level frees time for strategic thinking and future planning. Leaders must balance action with observation to maximize impact and firm growth. "Every single time I’ve ever done the next stage for me, or the next step in really investing in supporting my team, particularly in their personal lives, the results are just huge." —  Noel Andrews"Profit is what happens when you get everything else right." — Yvon Chouinard, Founder of Patagonia Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Noel Andrews: Noel Andrews is the CEO of JobRack, a global recruitment company that helps entrepreneurs and business owners hire high-quality remote talent, primarily from Eastern Europe and South Africa. With a background in online business and operations, Noel specializes in building systems that allow founders to delegate effectively, scale sustainably, and reclaim time for higher-level thinking.Through JobRack, he has helped hundreds of companies move beyond founder overload by hiring experienced, proactive team members who can truly own outcomes. Noel is known for his practical, clarity-first approach to hiring, leadership, and remote team management, emphasizing trust, accountability, and long-term leverage over micromanagement. Connect with Noel Andrews:  Website: https://jobrack.eu/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noelandrews/Ashley Robinson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyrobinsongcm/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jay Harrington discuss:Reframing business development as relationship-buildingThe power of owning a book of businessClarifying motivation to overcome resistance to business developmentExecuting business development with focus, structure, and preparation Key Takeaways:Business development is not selling or persuasion but consistent, helpful relationship-building over time. The myth of “natural rainmakers” keeps lawyers from starting when business development is actually a learnable skill. Approaching business development like legal training makes it practical, repeatable, and less intimidating.After several years of practice, firms expect lawyers to have portable client relationships. A book of business creates leverage, autonomy, and flexibility across firms or career paths. Without one, even strong lawyers may find their options limited.Many lawyers avoid business development due to fear, overwhelm, or discomfort with selling. Sustainable effort starts by defining a clear personal “why,” such as freedom or stability. Because client work always takes priority, business development only happens when time is protected intentionally.Consistent actions like scheduled outreach, focused contact lists, and light thought leadership compound. Effective networking prioritizes generosity, warm introductions, and strategic communities. Securing a meeting is only the start; preparation and process determine whether opportunities close. "Business Development is not some secret. It truly is just relationship building, being consistent, being helpful to people." —  Jay Harrington Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Jay Harrington: Before joining Latitude, Jay spent more than 25 years in the legal industry as a practicing attorney and entrepreneur. He began his career in corporate restructuring with Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP in Chicago and later practiced at Foley & Lardner LLP in Detroit. In 2009, he founded his own boutique law firm in Detroit, where he represented companies and executives in complex business disputes and restructuring matters.For the past decade, Jay has advised lawyers and law firms on business development, marketing, and strategy through his own consulting firm. He is a frequent keynote speaker and workshop leader at law firm retreats, bar association events, and professional conferences, focusing on topics such as productivity, leadership, and practice growth.Jay is also the author of three books for lawyers—The Productivity Pivot, The Essential Associate, and One of a Kind—each focused on helping attorneys build rewarding, sustainable, and successful practices.He earned his J.D. from the University of Michigan Law School and his B.A. from Bowling Green State University, where he played Division I baseball and competed in the 1998 College World Series Regionals.Outside of work, Jay is a U.S. Soccer–licensed coach and manages his twin daughters’ competitive North Storm club team. He and his wife, Heather, live in Michigan with their three daughters. He enjoys spending time outdoors—hiking, mountain biking, and paddle boarding—and experience has taught him that the best ideas often come while on the trail or on the water. Connect with Jay Harrington:  Website: https://latitudelegal.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayharrington/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Mathew Kerbis, Founder of Subscription Attorney LLC and co-founder of Practi.ai, discusses the profound shift AI brings to legal billing. He highlights how traditional hourly billing practices are becoming obsolete as AI automates tasks, pushing lawyers to rethink their pricing structures. Subscription models emerge as a solution, offering clients predictable costs while enabling firms to scale operations. Mathew emphasizes the importance of specialized tools and delegation for solos and small firms to thrive in this rapidly changing landscape.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Mandy McCormack discuss:Recognizing business development as a critical legal skillAligning coaching with motivation and executionBuilding authentic personal brandingCreating lasting impact through structured support Key Takeaways:Marketing, planning, and relationship-building are essential for long-term career success, not optional extras. Structured coaching transforms these skills into sustainable, high-ROI practices.Coaching works best when goals, gaps, and willingness to act are clear. Alignment between the lawyer’s needs and the coach’s methods drives meaningful results.Sharing personal stories alongside professional expertise strengthens trust, deepens relationships, and attracts clients who resonate with values, not just credentials.Combining training, personalized coaching, and on-demand guidance enables lawyers to internalize skills, stay focused, and achieve long-term growth without dependency on the coach. "I don’t think anybody wants to follow someone who talks the talk but isn’t walking the walk. I have to be doing those things at an incredibly high level to be able to coach my clients on it." —  Steve Fretzin Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Mandy McCormack: Mandy McCormack, Esq., is the founder of McCormack Law LLC, where she specializes in estate planning, tax law, and related advisory services. She helps clients navigate complex financial and legal decisions with clarity and confidence, creating tailored plans that protect assets, minimize tax liability, and provide peace of mind. Mandy is dedicated to combining technical expertise with a personal, approachable style, ensuring that every client understands their options and feels supported in the planning process. She is committed to helping individuals, families, and business owners prepare for the future while aligning legal strategies with their goals and values. Connect with Mandy McCormack: Website: https://mccormacklawllc.com/Yelp: https://www.yelp.com/biz/mccormack-law-brookfield-2LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandamccormacklaw/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61568230072605 Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this engaging discussion, Chris Earley, a personal injury attorney and founder of Earley Law Group, shares his insights on how lawyers can stand out in a crowded market. He emphasizes that consistency in content creation builds trust and visibility, as lawyers should show up daily with authentic posts. Chris highlights the power of vulnerability, urging professionals to share their struggles rather than polished successes. Additionally, he explains the importance of choosing the right platforms to reach specific audiences and encourages a focus on long-term value over immediate promotion.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Matthew Fornaro discuss:Making solo practice more accessible than everUsing AI as a force multiplier for small firmsPracticing ethical and intentional AI adoptionRethinking legal business models and skill sets Key Takeaways:Starting a firm no longer requires a large office, full staff, or major upfront investment. A focused LinkedIn presence paired with a simple, low-cost website can be sufficient early on.Matthew relies on AI for email triage, document review, and marketing support across his practice. These tools increasingly replace costly vendors while delivering speed, consistency, and scale.Responsible lawyers review and verify AI outputs instead of submitting them unchecked. Those who ignore AI entirely or misuse it are falling behind or facing real professional consequences.AI-driven efficiency puts pressure on traditional billable-hour structures in Big Law and beyond. Matthew emphasizes that business education is as critical as legal skills for long-term success. "In dealing with some of the attorneys I deal with who don't use AI or whatever, they're getting consistently outworked and beat by people who do use AI, particularly people who use AI correctly and responsibly." —  Matthew Fornaro Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Matthew Fornaro: Matthew Fornaro is a business law attorney serving South Florida since 2003. He began his career at two AmLaw 200 firms, focusing on civil litigation, before founding his own practice.His work includes complex commercial litigation, contract disputes, construction law, intellectual property, and business formation and documentation. A member of the Florida and District of Columbia Bars, Matthew also mentors new attorneys and entrepreneurs through the Kaufman Foundation’s FastTrac NewVenture Program and Florida State University’s Jim Moran Institute.As a small business owner himself, he is proud to support and represent businesses throughout his community. Connect with Matthew Fornaro: Website: https://fornarolegal.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fornarolegal/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewfornaro/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZn4sEROz6hErV5Fb5vvOtQInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/fornaro_legal/X: https://twitter.com/FornaroLegalAdditional Resources: Jeremy Baker - https://operationpalmtree.com/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Wes Lungwitz discuss:Adapting to change in legal marketingStrengthening the website as the foundationOptimizing for AI-driven discoveryEvaluating partners and acting proactively Key Takeaways:Law firm growth now depends on adapting to AI, new search behavior, and shifting marketing dynamics. Firms that remain static risk losing visibility as discovery moves beyond traditional SEO.A law firm website must be fast, technically clean, accessible, and well-structured. Personalized practice-area content and visible social proof reinforce trust and conversion.Search is shifting toward AI assistants and answer engines that reward clarity and structure. Conversational content, deep practice pages, and schema markup increase AI visibility.Agencies must actively address AI visibility, schema strategy, and changing discovery behavior. Google Business Profiles remain essential for legitimacy and intent capture. "You have to adapt in life and change and keep up with the times, and it's just so important in our industry and just life in general." —  Wes Lungwitz Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor!Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Wes Lungwitz: Wes Lungwitz is the co-founder and managing partner of Civille, a digital marketing and technology company focused exclusively on helping law firms grow. With a background in highly competitive, data-driven digital marketing, he brings modern website, SEO, and analytics strategies to an industry that has traditionally lagged behind other verticals. Wes regularly speaks and writes on the future of legal marketing, including AI-driven search and evolving discovery behavior. Connect with Wes Lungwitz:  Website: https://getciville.com/  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wes-lungwitz-1b532432/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

Alefiyah Lindo, a mind-body-energy intuitive and licensed psychotherapist with over 20 years of experience, shares insights on overcoming burnout. She highlights the importance of reflecting on past habits to make intentional choices for the future. Alefiyah encourages viewing burnout as a signal for misalignment and advocates for energy audits to track what energizes or depletes you. She emphasizes the need to support others' growth instead of fixing their problems, creating a path toward genuine fulfillment and sustainable change.