That Hoarder: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding

That Hoarder
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Oct 10, 2025 • 1h 16min

REMIX: Overcome overspending and compulsive shopping with Paige Pritchard

Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom Session: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/ticket Subscribe to the podcast: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/subscribe Podcast show notes, links and transcript: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/  This week, let's revisit a brilliant conversation I had with money coach Paige Pritchard all about overspending, compulsive shopping, and resisting the urge to binge buy.  Get the full show notes and transcript here: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/podcast-ep-127-overcoming-overspending-with-paige-pritchard-money-coach/ 
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Oct 3, 2025 • 19min

#200 Things I wish I'd known: a letter to Episode One Me

Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom Session: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/ticket Subscribe to the podcast: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/subscribe Podcast show notes, links and transcript: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/  Reflecting on the journey from my terrified first recording to episode 200, I am talking today how speaking out brought connection, understanding, and a community I never thought possible. This episode is a letter to my past self, and it’s also to you. It’s honest about what’s changed, what’s still hard, and the unexpected power of not being alone. If you’re struggling too, know you’re part of something bigger here. Letter to Episode One Self Emotional state during the podcast's inception (fear, isolation, shame) Misconceptions about being alone with hoarding disorder The unexpected journey and growth started by publishing the first episode Early Understanding of Hoarding Disorder Lack of knowledge about hoarding at the start Pain of isolation and confusion Limited exposure to terminology, research, and causes Learning and Personal Growth Through the Podcast Gained understanding about the science and psychology of hoarding Insight into links with trauma, grief, ADHD, autism, and anxiety Struggles and gradual improvements in managing inner critic Realities of Recovery No “quick fix” for hoarding disorder; non-linear progress Importance of learning Learning to discuss hard issues before they are resolved Building a Community Realisation of not being alone — over 400,000 plays Listeners’ responses and the impact of shared stories The growth of a supportive community, accountability calls, and new friendships Challenging Shame and Secrecy Confronting and gradually reducing shame through connection The belief that shame was deserved begins to change Disclosure of hoarding disorder to three real-life people and their supportive reactions Helping Others Through Honest Sharing Helps others feel less alone Listeners gain courage, understanding, and the will to seek help Gained Wisdom & Tools Increased confidence, self-trust, and knowledge Action, however small, is key to progress Understanding that worth is not tied to cleanliness or orderliness Recognition that recovery is more than just decluttering Accepting Ongoing Struggles Open acknowledgment that challenges persist Emphasis on wisdom and resilience, not just results Evolution as a Podcaster Recognition of the podcast’s impact on the host and the community Gratitude for guests and listeners Encouragement to continue the journey, highlighting non-linearity and hope Thanking podcast guests Appreciation for both long-time and new listeners Links Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom session: Accountability Booking Form Website: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding Become a Dehoarding Darling Submit a topic for the podcast to cover Questions to ask when dehoarding: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/podquestions Instagram: @thathoarderpodcast Twitter: @ThatHoarder Mastodon: @ThatHoarder@mastodon.online TikTok: @thathoarderpodcast Facebook: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder Pinterest: That Hoarder YouTube: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder Reddit: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder subreddit Help out: Support this project Sponsor the podcast Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe to the podcast here  
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Sep 26, 2025 • 31min

#199 Layers on layers: the many layers of hoarding disorder, from stuff to shame to identity

Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom Session: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/ticket Subscribe to the podcast: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/subscribe Podcast show notes, links and transcript: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/  Hoarding is far more complicated than just clutter - there are layers upon layers, from the visible stacks of possessions to the hidden emotional weight, old identities, and tangled feelings of shame and secrecy. In this episode, I talk through what these layers actually look like, why they make healing and recovery so tough, and how recognising them can help us start to move forward. It’s about giving an honest look at how hoarding really is, and offering a bit of encouragement and understanding for anyone living with it. Layers in Hoarding Disorder Explanation of the concept of "layers" Recognition of complexity in hoarding and recovery Importance of understanding layers for self-awareness and change Physical Layers of Stuff Sorting belongings as an “archaeological dig” Stories and histories attached to different layers of possessions Practical observations about layers: Top layer: Most recent or most-used items Middle layers: Mixture of older and neglected items, representing different life periods Bottom layers: Emotionally complex, broken, or “buried” items How physical layers inform decluttering decisions Emotional Layers in Hoarding Surface emotions: annoyance, sadness, irritability Deeper emotions: anxiety, fear of making wrong choices Core emotions: grief, trauma, feelings of unworthiness or inadequacy Guilt, anger, disappointment, and how these mix together The idea of layering additional distress (as per Carolyn Spring) Differentiating unavoidable pain from added self-blame Focusing on agency in managing additional emotional layers Cascading Layers: When Problems Create More Problems Examples of problems compounding: Physical issues (like leaks) made worse due to hoarding Social isolation leading to more depression and worsened hoarding Administrative issues (unpaid bills leading to fines) Cycle of increasing overwhelm and powerlessness Compassion for oneself in recognising these cycles Layers of Identity Complexity of personal identity in relation to hoarding Public vs. private identities Former, current, and future self-identities The impact of possessions on perceived identity (e.g., holding onto teaching materials) The difference between authentic identity and identity tied to objects Layers of Time Holding onto items as connections to the past Present consequences of hoarding: overwhelm, panic, paralysis Future-oriented worries: fear of needing items later Spaces/items “frozen in time,” keeping people anchored to the past Reflection on who we want to be now and in the future Layers of Shame and Secrecy Shame and secrecy as invisible yet heavy “layers” How secrecy takes energy and perpetuates shame Impact of secrecy on relationships and daily interactions Barriers to seeking help caused by shame and secrecy The process of being more open about hoarding Navigating and Addressing the Layers Emphasis on not needing to resolve all layers at once The process of recognising and being patient with layers Importance of support systems and therapy Identifying helpful (protective or wise) layers versus harmful ones Themes of self-compassion and validation for the complexity of the experience Rejecting simplistic advice to “just get rid of stuff” The process is about understanding and self-acceptance Encouragement to approach oneself with patience and compassion Closing remarks and reminders about podcast resources and support options Links Carolyn Spring Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom session: Accountability Booking Form Website: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding Become a Dehoarding Darling Submit a topic for the podcast to cover Questions to ask when dehoarding: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/podquestions Instagram: @thathoarderpodcast Twitter: @ThatHoarder Mastodon: @ThatHoarder@mastodon.online TikTok: @thathoarderpodcast Facebook: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder Pinterest: That Hoarder YouTube: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder Reddit: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder subreddit Help out: Support this project Sponsor the podcast Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe to the podcast here
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Sep 19, 2025 • 43min

#198 Intentionality and hoarding: how to move from reactive to purposeful decision making and action

Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom Session: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/ticket Subscribe to the podcast: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/subscribe Podcast show notes, links and transcript: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/  Today I’m talking about how being intentional - basically doing things on purpose rather than on autopilot - can genuinely reshape how we deal with hoarding and our stuff. I’ll share how intentionality helps us pause, make better decisions, and treat ourselves with more compassion, rather than reacting on impulse or out of habit. Plus, I’ll look at how setting small boundaries and choosing to rest on purpose can all be important aspects of real, lasting change. The transformative power of intentionality. Setting the stage: How being intentional relates to what we keep, acquire, or discard. What is Intentionality and Why Does it Matter? Definition: Acting with purpose, consciousness, and awareness. Impact on self-perception: How intentional actions can improve self-esteem and self-compassion. Increasing the distance between stimulus and response. Agency and empowerment: Transition from reactive to deliberate decision-making. Examples (nature walks, acquiring possessions): Using intentionality to shape experiences and choices. Intentionality vs. Reactivity in Hoarding-Related Decisions Reactive behaviours: Impulse acquisitions and the resulting feelings of regret. Intentional decision-making process: Steps and self-questioning (e.g., Do I need this? Does this fit my values?). Intentionality in Dehoarding Emotional barriers: Overwhelm, panic, and high-stakes feelings in hoarding/dehoarding. The value of starting small: Engaging in micro-decisions with thoughtfulness. Shifting mindset: Moving from resentment (“I have to") to choice ("I choose to”). Language and self-talk: The impact of words on perception and action. Boundaries: Establishing and maintaining intentional rules for oneself (e.g., only buying clothing in your current size). Intentional Habits, Rituals, and Boundaries Creating structure: Using rituals (tea, meditation, rewards) to make dehoarding sessions purposeful. Habitual vs. intentional choices: Challenging default behaviors (e.g., always keeping old birthday cards). Self-reflection: Using intentionality to question long-standing personal rules. Intentional Inaction: Choosing Not to Act Recognising when rest is necessary: The difference between intentional rest and giving up. Personal example: Planning for difficult days by intentionally not scheduling activities. Self-compassion: Allowing yourself to rest without self-judgment. Rest, Self-Care, and Challenging Productivity Myths Importance of rest in the decluttering process. Distinguishing between caring rest and avoidance. Encouraging self-compassion and recognising limits. Navigating Grey Areas in Intentionality The challenge of self-deception: When “intentionality” masks hoarding justifications. Tools for discernment: Grounded vs. anxiety-driven decisions. Value alignment: Considering whether choices support personal values and goals. Managing Setbacks and Self-Compassion Responding to slip-ups: Viewing mistakes as data, not failure. Problem-solving: Analysing triggers and adjusting future behaviour. Avoiding all-or-nothing thinking: Reframing setbacks and maintaining momentum. Building an Intentionality Practice The ongoing nature of intentionality: It’s a skill developed over time. Practical applications: Small daily decisions (e.g., washing dishes immediately). Mindfulness: Checking in with thoughts, emotions, and physical sensations. Encouragement: Be patient with yourself - progress, not perfection. The cumulative power of intentional decisions. Links Episode about letting yourself half-arse it (#192) Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom session: Accountability Booking Form Website: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding Become a Dehoarding Darling Submit a topic for the podcast to cover Questions to ask when dehoarding: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/podquestions Instagram: @thathoarderpodcast Twitter: @ThatHoarder Mastodon: @ThatHoarder@mastodon.online TikTok: @thathoarderpodcast Facebook: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder Pinterest: That Hoarder YouTube: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder Reddit: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder subreddit Help out: Support this project Sponsor the podcast Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe to the podcast here
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Sep 13, 2025 • 34min

#197 Holding our nerve: navigating urges and building tenacity in breaking hoarding behaviours

Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom Session: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/ticket Subscribe to the podcast: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/subscribe Podcast show notes, links and transcript: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/  Today I’m talking about what it really takes to stick to our dehoarding decisions - how to resist urges, tolerate discomfort, and actually follow through, even when it’s tough. I’ll share why holding our nerve matters, what gets in the way, and some strategies to help avoid falling back into old patterns. Plus, there’s a practical top tip at the end to help boost your self-care this month. Holding Our Nerve Explanation of the gap between deciding to act and actually taking action when dehoarding Definition in Hoarding Context Persistence in sticking to healthy, productive decisions Managing urges to revert to hoarding behaviours Commitment to goals for sustainable progress Reference to Amelia Earhart’s quote about decision-making and tenacity “Paper tigers” explanation – things we fear that seem big but aren’t as powerful as they appear Application to Hoarding Behaviour Resisting Acquiring Items Examples: bargain shopping, free items, online shopping temptations Enduring Discomfort in Dehoarding Tolerating emotional and physical discomfort during the dehoarding process Maintaining Long-term Commitment Remembering reasons for setting goals in the first place Avoiding short-term gratification and honouring original decisions Hoarding as a Coping Mechanism Exploration of how and why hoarding behaviours develop and persist Acknowledging that they once served a purpose and understanding possible current motivations Strategies for Holding Our Nerve Breaking the Cycle Recognising urges and patterns Learning from successes and setbacks Decision-Making vs. Tenacity Differentiating between difficulty in deciding versus following through The importance of honouring previous decisions Reminders and Motivation Recalling the “why” behind goals (better living conditions, consequences, self-improvement) Using motivational tools (e.g., visual reminders, Pinterest boards) Compassion and Flexibility Allowing for Mistakes Emphasis on not seeking perfection, just consistent progress Adjusting Expectations Recognising that personal best varies from day to day Trusting the process, even during discomfort Building the “Dehoarding Muscle” Each successful decision builds strength and determination for future efforts Identifying and Addressing Triggers Internal Triggers Decision fatigue, emotional attachment, mental and physical exhaustion, anxiety or depression Self-doubt and “what if I need it?” thoughts External Triggers Specific shops, websites, sales, or social pressure from others Discouragement, overwhelm, enticing offers, or resistance from people uncomfortable with change Planning Around Triggers Identifying personal stumbling blocks and creating plans to avoid or counteract them Coping Tactics for Urges Acknowledgment & Self-Reflection Naming feelings and urges to reduce their power Recognising patterns and underlying needs (e.g., hunger, mood) Nervous System Regulation Using grounding techniques, calming objects, self-talk, and other anxiety-management tools Allowing oneself to feel discomfort without acting on it Dealing with “What If I Need It?” Thoughts Trusting future self to be resourceful Breaking down hypothetical worries and seeking alternatives Importance of Support Systems Building and Using Support Networks Therapists, friends, accountability groups (Zoom sessions), online communities Support as both emotional (crying, laughing) and practical (advice, checks on decisions) Loneliness and Variations in Support Recognition that not everyone has support, with encouragement to proactively seek help Mention of a related episode on loneliness Self-Compassion and Learning from Setbacks Self-forgiveness and Reflection Importance of forgiving oneself instead of engaging in self-punishment Analysing situations where nerve was lost to prevent future recurrences Practical Planning Strategies for managing triggers, such as only shopping with someone else or removing items quickly Links Podcast ep 196: Trusting our future selves to be resourceful with Dr Jan Eppingstall Podcast episode 174: How to feel grounded when we’re overwhelmed or dysregulated using ventral vagal spaces and touchstones, with Dr Jan Eppingstall Podcast ep 49: Sitting with discomfort: distress tolerance and hoarding – How unconscious distress avoidance might be worsening your problems Podcast ep 190: What if we forgive ourselves, but now we know better, we do better? Choosing compassion over shame in hoarding disorder Podcast ep 130: Loneliness and hoarding with Vassia Sarantopoulou: build human connections and combat hoarding-related shame Action for Happiness calendar Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom session: Accountability Booking Form Website: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding Become a Dehoarding Darling Submit a topic for the podcast to cover Questions to ask when dehoarding: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/podquestions Instagram: @thathoarderpodcast Twitter: @ThatHoarder Mastodon: @ThatHoarder@mastodon.online TikTok: @thathoarderpodcast Facebook: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder Pinterest: That Hoarder YouTube: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder Reddit: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder subreddit Help out: Support this project Sponsor the podcast Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe to the podcast here
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Sep 5, 2025 • 1h 12min

#196 Trusting our future selves to be resourceful with Dr Jan Eppingstall

Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom Session: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/ticket Subscribe to the podcast: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/subscribe Podcast show notes, links and transcript: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/  This episode, I’m joined by Dr Jan Eppingstall to talk about why so many of us who hoard struggle to trust our future selves to cope without keeping everything “just in case.” We get into how doubts about our own resourcefulness and fears about scarcity keep us stuck, and share practical ways to build confidence in our ability to handle whatever comes next. If you’ve ever worried you won’t manage without every single spare part or backup item, this conversation’s for you. Trusting Our Future Selves to Be Resourceful The psychological struggle of believing in one’s ability to cope without keeping everything Personal anecdotes from the host about surprise resourcefulness Exploration of cognitive distortions surrounding trust in future adaptability Resourcefulness in Hoarding Behaviour Contradiction: Resourceful justifications for keeping items vs. fear of not being resourceful if they’re discarded The role of loss aversion and catastrophic scarcity thinking Imagining multiple uses for broken items versus inability to visualise coping without them The ‘Just in Case’ Myth Reading and analysis of Ru Kotryna’s Instagram post on ‘just in case’ keeping Discussion of how this reflects distrust in future self Emotional impacts: fear of change, sufficiency, and facing the future without backup How Distrust in Future Selves Manifests in Hoarding ‘Insurance hoarding’ and duplicate/back-up keeping Information hoarding for fear of forgetting needed details Emotional insecurity and sense of powerlessness Host’s personal examples (nature as a self-soothing tool and fear of its impermanence) Navigating Ephemerality and Change Conversation about the fleeting nature of things and the difficulty in accepting impermanence Reflection on attempts to freeze time by hoarding Behaviours and Thoughts Stemming from Lack of Self-Trust Executive function issues (planning, organisation, working memory) Trauma and past experiences of genuine scarcity Shame and immediate anxiety-reduction through keeping Avoidance and ‘comfort objects’ as safety strategies Psychological Mechanisms Behind ‘I Don’t Trust Future Me’ Discontinuity between current and future self Impact of ADHD and perimenopause on executive functioning and time perception Cognitive gaps between imagining needs and recalling/locating stored things Irony of ‘preparedness’ leading to greater unpreparedness Building Trust in Future Resourcefulness The value of journalling resourceful moments Small experiments: let go of duplicates and record how needs are met afterward Reviewing past examples of having coped or improvised successfully Consumerism and the Illusion of Solutions Attraction to gadgets and solutions for perceived problems The sunk cost fallacy and struggles to let go Owning up to aspirational or impulse purchases and being flexible in letting go if they don't work Scarcity Thinking and Its Long-Term Effects Personal stories of genuine scarcity and the enduring fear it creates How fear of not having enough directs attention to objects as solutions, rather than inner resourcefulness Difficulty breaking the object-focused habit even after circumstances change Breaking the Pattern: Psychological Approaches in Therapy Building evidence of existing skills and resourcefulness Addressing deeper self-worth issues and messages from childhood The importance of social connections, seeking help, and curiosity The Power and Pitfall of Backup Systems Possessions as emotional and practical backup Drawback: Items often become inaccessible or forgotten The paradox of keeping as “preparation” that often fails in practice due to volume and executive dysfunction Strengthening Connection with Future Self Using ACT techniques and self-compassion Treating your future self like a friend and planning for their needs Internal monologues about preparing spaces and making life easier for future-you Alternative Pathways to Security and Preparedness Community and social resource sharing (borrowing, lending among friends/family) Developing adaptability, self-confidence, and skills rather than accumulating more items Experimenting with minimalism and embracing uncertainty Actionable Steps for Building Trust in Resourcefulness Saying “I’ll figure it out when I need to” Experimenting with running out of non-critical supplies Documenting and reflecting on resourceful problem-solving Letting go of low-risk items and noticing outcomes The reminder that listeners have survived all past problems resourcefully Encouragement to recognise and trust personal growth and capabilities Emphasis on learning, adaptability, and present-focused living Links The Ru Kotryna Instagram post that inspired this episode Podcast ep 183: ADHD, executive dysfunction and creating hacks and systems to reduce clutter chaos, with Carrie Lagerstedt Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom session: Accountability Booking Form Dr Jan Eppingstall at Stuffology https://www.facebook.com/stuffologyconsulting/ https://twitter.com/stuff_ology https://www.instagram.com/stuff_ology/ Dr Jan Eppingstall on Pinterest Website: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding Become a Dehoarding Darling Submit a topic for the podcast to cover Questions to ask when dehoarding: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/podquestions Instagram: @thathoarderpodcast Twitter: @ThatHoarder Mastodon: @ThatHoarder@mastodon.online TikTok: @thathoarderpodcast Facebook: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder Pinterest: That Hoarder YouTube: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder Reddit: Overcome Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder subreddit Help out: Support this project Sponsor the podcast Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe to the podcast here
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Aug 29, 2025 • 1h 41min

REMIX: Executive dysfunction and hoarding disorder with Dr Jan Eppingstall

I really hope to be back with new episodes for you next week but, in the meantime, enjoy this incredible conversation with Dr Jan Eppingstall all about executive function, executive dysfunction, and hoarding.  Find the show notes and episode transcript here: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/podcast-ep-112-executive-function-executive-dysfunction-and-hoarding-with-dr-jan-eppingstall/ Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom Session: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/ticket Subscribe to the podcast: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/subscribe Podcast show notes, links and transcript: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/ 
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Aug 22, 2025 • 49min

REMIX: 23 dehoarding tasks you can get done in a weekend

Today, as we go into the weekend (and it's a long weekend here in the UK), get some ideas for weekend-shaped dehoarding tasks you can really get your teeth into. Find the full show notes and transcript here: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/podcast-ep-90-23-dehoarding-tasks-you-can-achieve-in-a-weekend/  Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom Session: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/ticket Subscribe to the podcast: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/subscribe Podcast show notes, links and transcript: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/ 
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Aug 15, 2025 • 1h 16min

REMIX: Tracy McCubbin on having a parent who hoards and becoming a professional organising superstar

"Really early on, I was like, this isn't about the stuff. This just isn't about the stuff." - Tracy McCubbin. Today, we’re revisiting this episode with podcast favourite Tracy McCubbin, about being the child of a hoarder and becoming a professional organiser. Find the full show notes and transcript here: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/podcast-ep-78-from-child-of-a-hoarder-to-professional-organiser-an-interview-with-tracy-mccubbin/  Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom Session: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/ticket Subscribe to the podcast: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/subscribe Podcast show notes, links and transcript: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/   
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Aug 8, 2025 • 1h 17min

REMIX: Grief, loss and hoarding disorder with Dr Jan Eppingstall

Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom Session: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/ticket Subscribe to the podcast: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/subscribe Podcast show notes, links and transcript: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/  Today, we’re revisiting this episode with the inimitable Dr Jan Eppingstall about how grief, bereavement and loss are often knitted into hoarding disorder. Find the full show notes and transcript here: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/podcast-ep-63-grief-and-loss-and-hoarding-with-dr-jan-eppingstall-of-stuffology/ 

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