

Naylor's Natter Podcast- an education podcast .
Phil Naylor
"Naylor's natter...just talking to teachers"
Naylor's Natter is the brainchild of Phil Naylor , created initially to share musings on evidence, research and CPD. The podcast has grown significantly since its first episode in early 2019 and is now proudly independent. We have no sponsorship or affiliation.
As the podcast has evolved so has its reach, we feel passionately about diversity of opinion and representation of our profession. To ensure we better reflect teaching , we are now proud to add more hosts to the podcast. Opinions are guests and hosts alone.
Naylor's Natter is the brainchild of Phil Naylor , created initially to share musings on evidence, research and CPD. The podcast has grown significantly since its first episode in early 2019 and is now proudly independent. We have no sponsorship or affiliation.
As the podcast has evolved so has its reach, we feel passionately about diversity of opinion and representation of our profession. To ensure we better reflect teaching , we are now proud to add more hosts to the podcast. Opinions are guests and hosts alone.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jul 3, 2020 • 38min
Aziza Ajak on venturing into school leadership
Aziza Ajak is a Science teacher and a Vice Principal
@durham_uni BSc |@imperialcollege MSc |@UCL MA |@teachfirst2014 | NPQSL | Science teacher & Vice Principal @GoresbrookSc @teachfirst trustee
1)Could you start by telling listeners about your career journey to this point including your 10% braver more like 100% braver on your journey to assistant headship ?
2) Your March 2018 blog ‘is it as simple as just saying thank you - how to value and develop individuals in resource limited schools . How can slt particularly now genuinely demonstrate valuing staff?
3) How do we get recruitment and new staff induction right ? What is a Friyay trolley ?
4) Could you give listeners a senior leadership perspective on implementing while class feedback
5) From a look in the mirror , how do you juggle the competing responsibilities of teaching and learning and behaviour?
6) From your blog , new young or inexperienced. Could you share the context for your discussion?
7) Could you tell listeners about authentic leadership ?
8) Why is it important to talk about authentic leadership
Could you signpost listeners to your blog, website and your crowdcast with Niall Alcock ?
https://www.weareinbeta.community/feed

Jun 26, 2020 • 52min
A Sage on the Stage with Michael Zwaagstra
This week I am joined by Michael Zwaagstra to discuss his John Catt book - A Sage on the Stage
Our discussion
Could you start by giving us a brief history of your career to this point?
Chapter one- foolish educational fads is a fantastic read and one which will chime with many of our listeners , Could you outline some of those educational fads and gimmicks and tell us why education fads do teachers and kids no favours ?
• A big question in chapter 2 raising academic standards- why should schools focus on the essentials and what are the essentials?
•In chapter 3 you outlined that tests are good for students could you tell us more?
•Could you tell us why content knowledge is important ? (perhaps taking in the explanation of Lord of the rings from the start of the chapter and how Tolkien showed a tremendous amount of creativity and even more importantly content knowledge in his Lord of the rings trilogy)
•Why does discovery maths not add up?
•My favourite chapter of the book is Chapter 7- improving life for teachers and students. There is some fantastic common-sense advice in this chapter, firstly why is it time to call time on cell phones in school?
•Will longer school days make students smarter?
•Does every student deserve a personalised learning experience that matches his or her unique learning style?
•Are distractions sometimes good for learning?
•Is it valuable sometimes instead of bringing in a new initiative to simply stop doing things that aren't working as you put it improve teacher working conditions by dumping bad ideas?
•Are gadgets in classrooms just gimmicks and should technology drive education reform?
•Could you tell us where listeners could find out more about you and A Sage on the stage?
In podcast pedagogy , I am currently reading the rED guide to the curriculum edited by Claire Sealey who will be a guest in a few weeks.

11 snips
Jun 12, 2020 • 1h 11min
'When the adults change, everything changes' with Paul Dix
Behavior management expert Paul Dix shares insights on creating consistent and positive school environments, maintaining certainty and consistency, navigating trauma-informed practices, and prioritizing professional learning in leadership. The discussion also includes diverse perspectives on education resources and entertainment reviews.

Jun 5, 2020 • 1h 8min
The CRAFT of Assessment with Michael Chiles
This week I am in conversation with Michael Chiles on his book 'The CRAFT of Assessment' .
About Michael https://twitter.com/m_chiles
Principal Examiner • HOD • Trainer • Author of CRAFT with @johncatt @SenecaLearn Ambassador • Border Collie Owner •
Michael's career began as a Geography teacher in a secondary school in the West Midlands where he became head of department and then a senior leader with responsibility for teaching and learning . He then relocated to the north-west, taking a short period of time out of the classroom to develop and deliver teacher training both nationally and internationally . He is now head of department in a secondary school in the north-west.
TDT section
Michelle talks to TDT CEO David Weston about the importance of culture
Podcast pedagogy
This week I am reading 'A Sage on the Stage' by Michael Zwaagstra.
Shameless plugs
I will be speaking at #newED on behaviour on the 27th June , more information here:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/NewEd2?src=hashtag_click
I will also be presenting a keynote at the RSC conference (Wales) on 24th June , more information to follow.
Next week
Paul Dix on When the adults change

May 29, 2020 • 2h 36min
The Power of Culture with Katie Ashford and Pritesh Raichura AND BBC Bitesize with Jordan Firth................CONTAINS DISCOUNT CODE INSIDE
A special podcast this week to mark the release of 'The Power of Culture' .We have interviews with authors from the ensemble cast of Michaela Teachers , namely Katie Ashford and friend of the show Pritesh Raichura. We also have an exclusive discount code for Naylor's Natter listeners embedded within.
We are also delighted to be teaming up with BBC Bitesize to bring you interviews with their class of 2020 and we start this week with Jordan Firth. We talk about his teacher talks, his podcast and his love of Leeds United.
Our TDT section sees Michelle in conversation with Bethan about focus and we all look forward to the TDT conference coming soon.
About Katie
https://twitter.com/katie_s_ashford
https://tabularasaeducation.wordpress.com/
About Pritesh
https://twitter.com/Mr_Raichura
https://bunsenblue.wordpress.com/
The book- The Power of Culture
https://www.johncattbookshop.com/michaela-the-power-of-culture
REMEMBER NN EXCLUSIVE DISCOUNT IN THE PODCAST
About Jordan
https://twitter.com/MisterFirth
https://twitter.com/HandsUpPod
https://twitter.com/BBCBitesize
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p08cvr39/bitesize-57-year-olds-week-5-6-teacher-talks-shapes
Next week - Michael Chiles on 'The Craft of Assessment'

May 22, 2020 • 2h 5min
The Difference with Kiran Gill and Putting Staff First with John Tomsett -discount code on PSF available inside
We are spoiling you with another double issue! This week we have interviews with The Difference founder and CEO Kiran Gill and Headteacher and author John Tomsett. WE ALSO HAVE A DISCOUNT CODE FOR PSF, LISTEN CAREFULLY! https://www.johncattbookshop.com/putting-staff-first
About Kiran
Kiran is Founder and CEO of The Difference – an organisation which is creating a new generation of school leaders, specialist in improving outcomes for the most vulnerable children.Kiran began her career in inner-city London, as an English teacher in schools serving the most deprived postcodes in the country. After five years on the frontline, Kiran left to work in education policy, searching for solutions to the rising number of vulnerable children who fall through the gaps. Kiran was working at Social Mobility Commission when she conceived the idea for The Difference. She has led its work full-time since January 2017.Kiran is driven by her own family experiences. Growing up with two adopted sisters, Kiran witnessed the long-term effects of childhood trauma and the lack of support for young people with complex needs. This insight is what keeps Kiran striving for the most vulnerable children to get the education they deserve.
About John
John has been a teacher for 31 years, a Head teacher for 16 years. John is the author of 3 education books He is a frequent blogger and popular speaker.
The natters in brief
Kiran with Kathryn
Brief introduction from Kathryn on Kiran, who she is and what she does.
1. We know of Kiran Gill as Founder and CEO of The Difference but please tell listeners a little more about yourself and your journey from classroom teacher in inner-city London to CEO at The Difference.
2. In what way did your insights from being a teacher in inner-city London inspire and motivate you to incubate your idea for The Difference?
3. In 2017 you had raised enough capital to fund a research paper with think tank IPPR, to understand rising school exclusion and look for solutions to this growing problem. Tell listeners more about what that research entailed and what some of the headlines from the paper were.
4. In 2018, you were asked to contribute to the DfE’s Timpson Review of school exclusions. What were some of the main headlines from that review and how did it further help to shape your thinking at The Difference?
John with Phil
Recruiting the best
1. No one wants to spend their career at odds with the organisation in which they work. Why is culture more important than money?
2. Huntington school is well known and respected as a place where teachers can develop, how did you go about establishing that Staffs obligation to improve their practise is a non-negotiable?
3. You go into detail about your process for selection, right through from providing the candidate with water rather than faffy tea or coffee through to the interview lesson. One section that struck me is the Storey you put in good subject knowledge. How important is subject expertise and can this be developed in the same way as pedagogy.
Next week
Pritesh Raichura on Michaela's The Power of Culture and Neil Reynolds on leadership in schools and football
Links
https://johntomsett.com/
https://www.the-difference.com/our-story

May 15, 2020 • 1h 55min
The Teaching Delusion with Bruce Robertson AND Kathryn Morgan interviews Chloe Woodhouse and Caroline Spalding
This week sees another double-header which are proving very popular during Lockdown. We have Bruce Robertson in conversation with Phil about his John Catt book 'The Teaching Delusion' and Kathryn Morgan in conversation with Chloe Woodhouse and Caroline Spalding. We also have Michelle chatting to Maria in our TDT section on the use of expert knowledge.
About Bruce
Senior Leader of Teaching & Learning in the Scottish Borders | Author of 'The Teaching Delusion': https://amzn.to/2JnKPOa & https://bit.ly/3dLYL2r
About Caroline
Assistant Headteacher KS4, RSL & PP | Future Leaders cohort ‘19 |@SLTchat team member | Co-organiser @TeamEnglishNC @WomenEdEM Network Lead | Wrestling fan
About Chloe
Assistant Headteacher KS3 & PP |#TeamEnglish | SLE | PiXL associate | NPQSL | Co-organiser of @TeamEnglishNC | Geek | Comic book fan | Always on the dance floor
The Natters
The Teaching Delusion:
Gentle introduction question, listeners will be familiar with you and your book 'The Teaching Delusion' from your summary in a previous podcast but could you tell us a little more about you and your career to date?
BIG question starter , what is the purpose of school and a pertinent follow up is will this change as and when we return?
'Learning in schools is different from learning without schools because learning in schools involves students working with professional teachers, it is the interaction between teachers and students that is the essence of schools' . What difference can teachers make and what are the key messages from educational literature and research?
What are the key factors that lead to high quality student learning?
Which teacher and leader mindsets enhance a strong professional learning culture?
Something I'm very interested in is creating a professional learning culture. How do you suggest listeners can enhance their PLC?
Lesson observation and evaluation remains controversial , could you tell listeners about your lesson evaluation toolkit and the 'instructional model' suggested by Peter Cole?
How important is lesson planning and how do you suggest using the lesson evaluation toolkit to support lesson planning?
TDT Section
Michelle interviews Maria on the use of expert knowledge . http://tdtrust.org/
Lockdown Learning
This week it is Kraftwerk's Computer World, Dickens (again) with David Copperfield and NO film review!
Coming up
Katie Ashford and Pritsesh Raichura on the new Michaela book 'The Power of Culture'
John Tomsett on 'Putting Staff First'
The Naylors Natter app!
Download it here to keep up to date with all episodes, blogs and updates https://3787413.igen.app/

May 8, 2020 • 1h 56min
'Closing the Reading Gap' with Alex Quigley and 'Courage in The Classroom' with Dr Catherine Lee
This week we are treating you the listeners to another bumper double edition. We are delighted to have interviews with the authors of 2 new education books , namely Alex Quigley and Dr Catherine Lee . Alex is interviewed by Bernie Kaye, a fantastic new addition to our NN team , Bernie is an English teaching uber geek with a passion for cooking, reading and festival going. AHT - ITT, research & literacy. We have all our usual features including our TDT section http://tdtrust.org/and Lockdown Learning.
About Alex
I am National Content Manager at the EEF, supporting teachers to access research evidence. After over fifteen years in the classroom, I now support from outside the school gates.
Closing the reading gap
So, what is the reading gap? It is a teacher knowledge gap, but more importantly, it is the gap that exists between reading access, reading practice and reading ability for the pupils in our schools. It marks out the ‘reading rich’ and the ‘reading poor’ populate all of our schools.
The gap is writ large when we explore the evidence. Take reading access. Recent research from the National Literacy Trust shows that 1 in 11 children own a book of their own. A mere 1 in 8 disadvantaged children own a book. I think about the impact of those empty bookshelves (in all likelihood, there is no bookshelf at all) for pupils.
Then when you explore school attainment, you can see the gap and the daily damage that is suffered by many pupils. When you consider that only 73% of pupils leaving primary school reached the expected level for reading in 2019, it is clear that many of those pupils will struggle to access the secondary school curriculum.
I never expected two years ago that this book would be published during a global crisis that would see pupils impacted by school closures. When you wed closures to limited book access, limited teaching, along with limited support at home, the prospect for the reading gap is massively challenging.
I hope that this book – and the free related resources – offer some useful guidance for teachers and schools during this challenging time. It should provide handy CPD, now and as schools bounce back to support our pupils.
You can purchase the book from the following.
Amazon link HERE
You can find 5 free resources to go with the book on my RESOURCES page HERE.
About Catherine
UK Pride Power List 2019. Diva Award finalist 2020. Deputy Dean at Anglia Ruskin University.
Courageous Leaders
We are all at our most effective when we can be ourselves at work, but more than half of LGBT teachers hide their sexual identity within their school workplace. For LGBT teachers, vigilance, concealment and assimilation, take a great deal of energy, on top of what is already a very demanding job.
Through personal testimonies, advice and a rousing call to arms, this book shows how LGBT School Leaders are often amongst the most inclusive, creative, adaptable and intuitive colleagues, when they are able to flourish and be their authentic selves.
The book is available here: https://www.johncattbookshop.com/courage-in-the-classroom
Coming Soon- John Tomsett and The Power of Culture by Michaela School
promo code of PSF40 for listeners to get 40% off Putting Staff First by John and Jonny Utley , our previous guest .

May 1, 2020 • 1h 31min
Bumper double edition #teacher5aday with Martyn Reah AND education and culture blogger @mimmerr Molly
A special double edition this week featuring Martyn and Molly . Martyn's natter is PRE lockdown (Feb half-term) and Molly's is a lockdown recording
Martyn Reah : about Martyn in his own words:https://martynreah.wordpress.com/about/
After 20 years of working as a teacher I have decided to put pen to paper and record the things which interest me and hopefully others. Born in Chester and brought up in Sunderland I now call Petersfield home. After starting my career in the East Midlands promotion moved me north to Yorkshire. Family commitments dragged me kicking and screaming south to Hampshire where my four children keep me busy with some spare time available for enjoying sport.
The natter:
1) journey to this point gentle intro - from 1994 and a roller chalk board to 2020 ! 2) tell us about the origins of #teacher5aday and the need for the movement 3) could you take listeners through each of 5 areas ? 4) this year saw the first #teacher5aday week in December . Could you share with us some of the activities that took place and who was involved? 5) how could/should leaders involve #teacher5aday in their schools? 6) what is a slow chat and how can listeners get involved ? 7) what is the #pledge ? 8) you now have a steering group , who is involved and what is their remit ? 9) pedagoohampshire has been a big success for a few years now . Is it back again this year and who’s speaking? 10) are you still running every day? Some achievement!! 11) could you signpost listeners to your blog/website etc ?
Molly: about Molly @Mimmer in her own words :https://mimmerr.co.uk/
Molly, 20-something Londoner, teacher.
I write about fashion ethics, music, education, social inequality and TV.
Press & business:
Email: molly@mimmerr.co.uk Twitter: @mimmerr.
The natter:
Music is a big part of my life and we have a weekly section (which you kindly contributed to last week) tell listeners who you think are worth the hype and does me liking arcade fire make me an ageing hipster ?Could you tell listeners about your folding paper project , what is your aim with this and how can listeners get involved ? You are also posting about a daily writing challenge , what themes have you explored so far ? You are also an accomplished interviewer and have interviewed some leaders in education . I particularly enjoyed talk to teachers :tiny voices and tiny voice Tuesday . How do you (and Toria) think we can improve edutwitter ?Teacher workload is a topic we have returned to many times on here . Shouts to Kat Howard and Martyn Reah who’ve done great work in this area . What do you think is causing teacher workload and what can we do ? Also do you think the current situation has created more unnecessary workload for staff ? Where can listeners find out more ? Signpost to social media ( tumblr for example may be new to some ?) .
TDT Section- Maria and Michelle on Needs Analysis
Lockdown learning
Books- Robert Webb
Music-Pole
Film- The Astronaut
John Catt- upcoming episodes featuring 'The Teaching Delusion' and 'Courage in the Classroom' available with #naylorsnatter discount here :https://www.johncattbookshop.com/
Next week- Alex Quigley

Apr 24, 2020 • 1h 9min
Leadership with Neil Gilbride interviewed by Emma Turner
This week sees a welcome return to the interviewers chair for Emma Turner . This week she is in conversation with Neil Gilbride and they are discussing all things leadership. This interview was recorded on 16th March in a pre-lockdown UK so please be aware of that when listening.
About Neil in his own words:
I am currently a PhD student at the University of Bath, Lecturer in Education at the University of Gloucestershire and consultant with Neil Gilbride Consultancy.
I have a unique, multi-sector experience as both a practitioner and researcher. I have over 12 years professional experience across the public, voluntary and private sectors as a teacher, researcher, middle leader, school social worker, carer, counsellor and governor. My academic background is equally diverse – stretching from Biomedical Science, Special Educational Needs through to the Leadership Development and Organisational Behaviour. In working with individuals and organisations, my multi-disciplinary background delivers new insights and fresh ways of thinking.
Primarily, I am a psychologist. In my work, I apply the principles of psychology to leadership, people development, inclusion and organisational behaviour. My cutting-edge research is looking at the role adult development plays in how leaders think, feel and behave. Please go to the ‘ego development‘ page to find out more.
I am available for consultancy through my business, Neil Gilbride Consulting. Please do click here to see what I might have to offer you and your organisation.
Lockdown Learning (previously Podcast Pedagogy)
In music- Gerry Cinnamon's 'The Bonny' on Vinyl
Films on streaming - 'Trolls World Tour'
Books- A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens
Shameless Plugs from our partners and sponsors
TDT connectUp is a great resource with some amazing speakers - http://tdtrust.org/cpdconnectup
John Catt bookshop has some amazing new titles in stock and #naylorsnatter mentions in a tweet will unlock your discount code https://www.johncattbookshop.com/
ResearchEd Home is the place to be at 11am if you can get on! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1awWjuY1Jb4
As ever , if you would like to be part of the show as a lockdown learner or as a guest , please get in touch via our website www.naylorsnatter.co.uk
or email p3nay91@gmail.com
See you next week!
Phil