
Naylor's Natter Podcast- an education podcast .
"Naylor's natter...just talking to teachers"
Naylor's Natter is the brainchild of Phil Naylor , created initially to share musings on evidence, research and CPD. The podcast has grown significantly since its first episode in early 2019 and is now proudly independent. We have no sponsorship or affiliation.
As the podcast has evolved so has its reach, we feel passionately about diversity of opinion and representation of our profession. To ensure we better reflect teaching , we are now proud to add more hosts to the podcast. Opinions are guests and hosts alone.
Latest episodes

Jul 17, 2020 • 51min
Jo Jukes debut interview with 'The Researcher Teacher' Nimish Lad.........Its a Nimish Natter!
This week sees the addition of Jo Jukes to the Naylor's Natter team . Jo is the Trust Curriculum Research Lead @TEAL_Trust and @ResearchWolds. Jo is a Teacher of Business and will be contributing interviews regularly to the podcast.
Jo is interviewing Nimish Lad
Nimish is a highly motivated, enthusiastic and experienced senior leader in the education sector. A passionate education leader, Nimish had a high level of experience and expertise gained from nearly a decade in educational leadership roles. Nimish is delighted to now be focusing his energy in leading Curriculum, Sixth form, Data, Reporting and Intervention at a high performing secondary school in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire.
As a key member of the senior leadership team, Nimish champions the values of the school in which he works – Working hard, Respecting others, Enjoy learning, Never give up, Nothing is impossible. Instilling these values in the lessons he delivers and the teams he leads, Nimish has ensured that all stakeholders have the information they need to drive the rapid improvement that has taken place over the last few years. During his time on the senior leadership team, the school has moved from an Ofsted grading of a 4, to a Ofsted grade of a 2 within 18 months.
Nimish had driven the school to improve the use of data to plan lessons, and ensure that leaders at all level have access to the information they require to drive rapid progress and transformational change. Over his first two years on the senior leadership team the progress 8 score of the school improved by +0.5 with the percentage of students achieving English and maths at a grade 4 increasing by 22%.
Keen to share his expertise, Nimish has presented for ResearchED, Educating Northants NEDTalks and PiXL in the past, as well as hosting a global teachmeet for Its Learning. He is also completing his NPQH this year, conducting his 2nd placement in a local junior school.
Next week Phil interviews Joe Nutt

Jul 10, 2020 • 1h 24min
The Godfather of podcasting Craig Barton interviewed by Simon Cox
This week Simon Cox is in the presenting chair interviewing my hero , the godfather of podcasting Mr Craig Barton . In the podcast pedagogy, Rachel Ball joins me to have a look at the rise of the education podcasts . We navigate the best podcasts in other genres and signpost you to Rachel's picks.
Next week we have another new podcasting dream team , Nimish Lad and Joanna Jukes who will be interviewing each other.

Jul 3, 2020 • 38min
Aziza Ajak on venturing into school leadership
Aziza Ajak is a Science teacher and a Vice Principal
@durham_uni BSc |@imperialcollege MSc |@UCL MA |@teachfirst2014 | NPQSL | Science teacher & Vice Principal @GoresbrookSc @teachfirst trustee
1)Could you start by telling listeners about your career journey to this point including your 10% braver more like 100% braver on your journey to assistant headship ?
2) Your March 2018 blog ‘is it as simple as just saying thank you - how to value and develop individuals in resource limited schools . How can slt particularly now genuinely demonstrate valuing staff?
3) How do we get recruitment and new staff induction right ? What is a Friyay trolley ?
4) Could you give listeners a senior leadership perspective on implementing while class feedback
5) From a look in the mirror , how do you juggle the competing responsibilities of teaching and learning and behaviour?
6) From your blog , new young or inexperienced. Could you share the context for your discussion?
7) Could you tell listeners about authentic leadership ?
8) Why is it important to talk about authentic leadership
Could you signpost listeners to your blog, website and your crowdcast with Niall Alcock ?
https://www.weareinbeta.community/feed

Jun 26, 2020 • 52min
A Sage on the Stage with Michael Zwaagstra
This week I am joined by Michael Zwaagstra to discuss his John Catt book - A Sage on the Stage
Our discussion
Could you start by giving us a brief history of your career to this point?
Chapter one- foolish educational fads is a fantastic read and one which will chime with many of our listeners , Could you outline some of those educational fads and gimmicks and tell us why education fads do teachers and kids no favours ?
• A big question in chapter 2 raising academic standards- why should schools focus on the essentials and what are the essentials?
•In chapter 3 you outlined that tests are good for students could you tell us more?
•Could you tell us why content knowledge is important ? (perhaps taking in the explanation of Lord of the rings from the start of the chapter and how Tolkien showed a tremendous amount of creativity and even more importantly content knowledge in his Lord of the rings trilogy)
•Why does discovery maths not add up?
•My favourite chapter of the book is Chapter 7- improving life for teachers and students. There is some fantastic common-sense advice in this chapter, firstly why is it time to call time on cell phones in school?
•Will longer school days make students smarter?
•Does every student deserve a personalised learning experience that matches his or her unique learning style?
•Are distractions sometimes good for learning?
•Is it valuable sometimes instead of bringing in a new initiative to simply stop doing things that aren't working as you put it improve teacher working conditions by dumping bad ideas?
•Are gadgets in classrooms just gimmicks and should technology drive education reform?
•Could you tell us where listeners could find out more about you and A Sage on the stage?
In podcast pedagogy , I am currently reading the rED guide to the curriculum edited by Claire Sealey who will be a guest in a few weeks.

11 snips
Jun 12, 2020 • 1h 11min
'When the adults change, everything changes' with Paul Dix
Behavior management expert Paul Dix shares insights on creating consistent and positive school environments, maintaining certainty and consistency, navigating trauma-informed practices, and prioritizing professional learning in leadership. The discussion also includes diverse perspectives on education resources and entertainment reviews.

Jun 5, 2020 • 1h 8min
The CRAFT of Assessment with Michael Chiles
This week I am in conversation with Michael Chiles on his book 'The CRAFT of Assessment' .
About Michael https://twitter.com/m_chiles
Principal Examiner • HOD • Trainer • Author of CRAFT with @johncatt @SenecaLearn Ambassador • Border Collie Owner •
Michael's career began as a Geography teacher in a secondary school in the West Midlands where he became head of department and then a senior leader with responsibility for teaching and learning . He then relocated to the north-west, taking a short period of time out of the classroom to develop and deliver teacher training both nationally and internationally . He is now head of department in a secondary school in the north-west.
TDT section
Michelle talks to TDT CEO David Weston about the importance of culture
Podcast pedagogy
This week I am reading 'A Sage on the Stage' by Michael Zwaagstra.
Shameless plugs
I will be speaking at #newED on behaviour on the 27th June , more information here:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/NewEd2?src=hashtag_click
I will also be presenting a keynote at the RSC conference (Wales) on 24th June , more information to follow.
Next week
Paul Dix on When the adults change

May 29, 2020 • 2h 36min
The Power of Culture with Katie Ashford and Pritesh Raichura AND BBC Bitesize with Jordan Firth................CONTAINS DISCOUNT CODE INSIDE
A special podcast this week to mark the release of 'The Power of Culture' .We have interviews with authors from the ensemble cast of Michaela Teachers , namely Katie Ashford and friend of the show Pritesh Raichura. We also have an exclusive discount code for Naylor's Natter listeners embedded within.
We are also delighted to be teaming up with BBC Bitesize to bring you interviews with their class of 2020 and we start this week with Jordan Firth. We talk about his teacher talks, his podcast and his love of Leeds United.
Our TDT section sees Michelle in conversation with Bethan about focus and we all look forward to the TDT conference coming soon.
About Katie
https://twitter.com/katie_s_ashford
https://tabularasaeducation.wordpress.com/
About Pritesh
https://twitter.com/Mr_Raichura
https://bunsenblue.wordpress.com/
The book- The Power of Culture
https://www.johncattbookshop.com/michaela-the-power-of-culture
REMEMBER NN EXCLUSIVE DISCOUNT IN THE PODCAST
About Jordan
https://twitter.com/MisterFirth
https://twitter.com/HandsUpPod
https://twitter.com/BBCBitesize
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p08cvr39/bitesize-57-year-olds-week-5-6-teacher-talks-shapes
Next week - Michael Chiles on 'The Craft of Assessment'

May 22, 2020 • 2h 5min
The Difference with Kiran Gill and Putting Staff First with John Tomsett -discount code on PSF available inside
We are spoiling you with another double issue! This week we have interviews with The Difference founder and CEO Kiran Gill and Headteacher and author John Tomsett. WE ALSO HAVE A DISCOUNT CODE FOR PSF, LISTEN CAREFULLY! https://www.johncattbookshop.com/putting-staff-first
About Kiran
Kiran is Founder and CEO of The Difference – an organisation which is creating a new generation of school leaders, specialist in improving outcomes for the most vulnerable children.Kiran began her career in inner-city London, as an English teacher in schools serving the most deprived postcodes in the country. After five years on the frontline, Kiran left to work in education policy, searching for solutions to the rising number of vulnerable children who fall through the gaps. Kiran was working at Social Mobility Commission when she conceived the idea for The Difference. She has led its work full-time since January 2017.Kiran is driven by her own family experiences. Growing up with two adopted sisters, Kiran witnessed the long-term effects of childhood trauma and the lack of support for young people with complex needs. This insight is what keeps Kiran striving for the most vulnerable children to get the education they deserve.
About John
John has been a teacher for 31 years, a Head teacher for 16 years. John is the author of 3 education books He is a frequent blogger and popular speaker.
The natters in brief
Kiran with Kathryn
Brief introduction from Kathryn on Kiran, who she is and what she does.
1. We know of Kiran Gill as Founder and CEO of The Difference but please tell listeners a little more about yourself and your journey from classroom teacher in inner-city London to CEO at The Difference.
2. In what way did your insights from being a teacher in inner-city London inspire and motivate you to incubate your idea for The Difference?
3. In 2017 you had raised enough capital to fund a research paper with think tank IPPR, to understand rising school exclusion and look for solutions to this growing problem. Tell listeners more about what that research entailed and what some of the headlines from the paper were.
4. In 2018, you were asked to contribute to the DfE’s Timpson Review of school exclusions. What were some of the main headlines from that review and how did it further help to shape your thinking at The Difference?
John with Phil
Recruiting the best
1. No one wants to spend their career at odds with the organisation in which they work. Why is culture more important than money?
2. Huntington school is well known and respected as a place where teachers can develop, how did you go about establishing that Staffs obligation to improve their practise is a non-negotiable?
3. You go into detail about your process for selection, right through from providing the candidate with water rather than faffy tea or coffee through to the interview lesson. One section that struck me is the Storey you put in good subject knowledge. How important is subject expertise and can this be developed in the same way as pedagogy.
Next week
Pritesh Raichura on Michaela's The Power of Culture and Neil Reynolds on leadership in schools and football
Links
https://johntomsett.com/
https://www.the-difference.com/our-story

May 15, 2020 • 1h 55min
The Teaching Delusion with Bruce Robertson AND Kathryn Morgan interviews Chloe Woodhouse and Caroline Spalding
This week sees another double-header which are proving very popular during Lockdown. We have Bruce Robertson in conversation with Phil about his John Catt book 'The Teaching Delusion' and Kathryn Morgan in conversation with Chloe Woodhouse and Caroline Spalding. We also have Michelle chatting to Maria in our TDT section on the use of expert knowledge.
About Bruce
Senior Leader of Teaching & Learning in the Scottish Borders | Author of 'The Teaching Delusion': https://amzn.to/2JnKPOa & https://bit.ly/3dLYL2r
About Caroline
Assistant Headteacher KS4, RSL & PP | Future Leaders cohort ‘19 |@SLTchat team member | Co-organiser @TeamEnglishNC @WomenEdEM Network Lead | Wrestling fan
About Chloe
Assistant Headteacher KS3 & PP |#TeamEnglish | SLE | PiXL associate | NPQSL | Co-organiser of @TeamEnglishNC | Geek | Comic book fan | Always on the dance floor
The Natters
The Teaching Delusion:
Gentle introduction question, listeners will be familiar with you and your book 'The Teaching Delusion' from your summary in a previous podcast but could you tell us a little more about you and your career to date?
BIG question starter , what is the purpose of school and a pertinent follow up is will this change as and when we return?
'Learning in schools is different from learning without schools because learning in schools involves students working with professional teachers, it is the interaction between teachers and students that is the essence of schools' . What difference can teachers make and what are the key messages from educational literature and research?
What are the key factors that lead to high quality student learning?
Which teacher and leader mindsets enhance a strong professional learning culture?
Something I'm very interested in is creating a professional learning culture. How do you suggest listeners can enhance their PLC?
Lesson observation and evaluation remains controversial , could you tell listeners about your lesson evaluation toolkit and the 'instructional model' suggested by Peter Cole?
How important is lesson planning and how do you suggest using the lesson evaluation toolkit to support lesson planning?
TDT Section
Michelle interviews Maria on the use of expert knowledge . http://tdtrust.org/
Lockdown Learning
This week it is Kraftwerk's Computer World, Dickens (again) with David Copperfield and NO film review!
Coming up
Katie Ashford and Pritsesh Raichura on the new Michaela book 'The Power of Culture'
John Tomsett on 'Putting Staff First'
The Naylors Natter app!
Download it here to keep up to date with all episodes, blogs and updates https://3787413.igen.app/

May 8, 2020 • 1h 56min
'Closing the Reading Gap' with Alex Quigley and 'Courage in The Classroom' with Dr Catherine Lee
This week we are treating you the listeners to another bumper double edition. We are delighted to have interviews with the authors of 2 new education books , namely Alex Quigley and Dr Catherine Lee . Alex is interviewed by Bernie Kaye, a fantastic new addition to our NN team , Bernie is an English teaching uber geek with a passion for cooking, reading and festival going. AHT - ITT, research & literacy. We have all our usual features including our TDT section http://tdtrust.org/and Lockdown Learning.
About Alex
I am National Content Manager at the EEF, supporting teachers to access research evidence. After over fifteen years in the classroom, I now support from outside the school gates.
Closing the reading gap
So, what is the reading gap? It is a teacher knowledge gap, but more importantly, it is the gap that exists between reading access, reading practice and reading ability for the pupils in our schools. It marks out the ‘reading rich’ and the ‘reading poor’ populate all of our schools.
The gap is writ large when we explore the evidence. Take reading access. Recent research from the National Literacy Trust shows that 1 in 11 children own a book of their own. A mere 1 in 8 disadvantaged children own a book. I think about the impact of those empty bookshelves (in all likelihood, there is no bookshelf at all) for pupils.
Then when you explore school attainment, you can see the gap and the daily damage that is suffered by many pupils. When you consider that only 73% of pupils leaving primary school reached the expected level for reading in 2019, it is clear that many of those pupils will struggle to access the secondary school curriculum.
I never expected two years ago that this book would be published during a global crisis that would see pupils impacted by school closures. When you wed closures to limited book access, limited teaching, along with limited support at home, the prospect for the reading gap is massively challenging.
I hope that this book – and the free related resources – offer some useful guidance for teachers and schools during this challenging time. It should provide handy CPD, now and as schools bounce back to support our pupils.
You can purchase the book from the following.
Amazon link HERE
You can find 5 free resources to go with the book on my RESOURCES page HERE.
About Catherine
UK Pride Power List 2019. Diva Award finalist 2020. Deputy Dean at Anglia Ruskin University.
Courageous Leaders
We are all at our most effective when we can be ourselves at work, but more than half of LGBT teachers hide their sexual identity within their school workplace. For LGBT teachers, vigilance, concealment and assimilation, take a great deal of energy, on top of what is already a very demanding job.
Through personal testimonies, advice and a rousing call to arms, this book shows how LGBT School Leaders are often amongst the most inclusive, creative, adaptable and intuitive colleagues, when they are able to flourish and be their authentic selves.
The book is available here: https://www.johncattbookshop.com/courage-in-the-classroom
Coming Soon- John Tomsett and The Power of Culture by Michaela School
promo code of PSF40 for listeners to get 40% off Putting Staff First by John and Jonny Utley , our previous guest .