REWORK

In this episode, the hosts discuss the advantages of being a small company and embracing constraints. They announce a contest for underdogs to share their stories and win exclusive prizes.

Bugs are an inevitable part of complex software and aiming for complete bug-free perfection is not only unrealistic, but it hinders progress and product delivery.In this episode of Rework, host Kimberly Rhodes sits down with 37signals founders, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson to discuss why you need to be realistic about bugs in software development. Listen in as David and Jason offer a behind-the-scenes look at the two-tiered approach to handling bugs in their software at 37signals and their triage plan for determining which should be fixed, when, and by whom.Tune in to uncover strategies to manage your customers' expectations while dealing with bugs WITHOUT deviating from your product roadmap Check out the full video episode on YouTubeShow Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly opens the show and shares the topic for discussion, that bugs in software are normal. [00:27] - David shares why you need to be realistic about bugs in software development.[01:18] - Bugs, a natural side effect of software. [02:08] - What makes users abandon a piece of software (hint: it’s usually not a few bugs)?[05:26] - The two-tiered (non-emotional) approach to handling the vast spectrum of bugs in complicated pieces of software.  [06:13] - When is a “bug” not a “bug”? [07:00] - Handling customer expectations without screwing up your product roadmap.  [07:52] - You need a filter: the double-edged sword of founders operating in customer support.  [08:32] - David shares a behind-the-scenes look triage at 37signals.  [09:31] - The novel QA approach of the Toyota production line that 37signals tries to emulate. [11:37] - Jason shares the difference between the software and auto industries when fixing production problems. [12:37] - Yes, quality matters, but perfect never gets shipped. [14:30] - So how do we build useful, meaningful software? [15:21] - Breaking out of bad bug thought patterns so you can keep making software of value. [16:47] - Who oversees fixing the bugs at 37signals—the methods they use to determine what gets fixed, when, and by who. [20:08] - Cleaning up the tech debt: the vital importance of a measured, mature way of scheduling things. [21:09] - Don't create ****** software—it can’t be fixed. [23:55] – Jason discusses the idea an organization might be a bigger problem than just a bug in the software.[24:44] - Why you should never become "too big" to listen to your customers. [26:28] – For more, check out our Dev.37signals blog, where the 37signals developers write about some of their processes.[26:45] - Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Full video episodes are also available on Twitter and YouTube. If you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business, we’d love to answer them. Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email. Links and Resources:From David’s HEY World: Software has bugs. This is normal. Dev.37signalsIt Doesn’t Have to Be Crazy at Work  Sign up for a 30

Knowing when you're in over your head and recognizing when a project has gone off the rails are crucial aspects of successful project management. But what are the red flags to watch for to prevent project derailment and how can you tell if a project is doomed to fail—even before you start? This week, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the challenges of project management and share valuable insights on how to stay focused, recognize red flags early on, and foster creative problem-solving in order to see a project through to completion. Listen in as they reveal the importance of finishing tasks before adding new ones, the pitfalls of multitasking, and the magic of setting clear endpoints. Plus they share Basecamp's tool for facilitating project monitoring without time-consuming meetings or derailing check-ins.Tune in for practical solutions for rescuing a project before it's too late! Check out the full video episode on YouTubeShow Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly opens the show and the topic of how to rescue a project when it’s gone off of the rails.[00:34] - Adding too much without finishing anything causes chaos. Jason shares the story behind his HEY World piece, Rescuing a project in progress, and shares the advice he gave his friend and how that applies to software development too.[02:49] - David shares the reasons behind the “Shape Up” approach at 37signals. [03:44] - You can’t do two things at once, every time you do you lose a little bit…[04:33] - Clearing the decks, wiping the slate clean, AND deciding what you are going to do with 100% of your time and how it helps you avoid shiny object syndrome.[05:20] - Why it's crucial for successful project management to avoid adding new tasks until all the existing unfinished ones are completed. [06:11] - How the magic of deciding when you’re done helps lower the risk of multitasking.[08:53] - In software development how can you tell things are going off the rails before it’s way too late?[09:17] - Jason shares why you need to be tuned into those feelings of being in over your head. [10:43] - David shares the major red flag moment for him that lets him know you’ve already failed before you even get started.  [12:28] - “The longer, the more complicated the project, the more deceivingly specific people believe they can be when the opposite should actually be true.”[13:17] - Why you should never give yourself too much time for a project. [14:13] - The work-in-progress unified system in Denmark for tax assessments of properties that will never be finished (it’s already eight years overdue, and a billion dollars in).[15:53] - The easiest time to stay on track for a project. [16:29] - The other problem with long projects is that you get more time to not fix the problem.[17:17] - The curse of too much time and the sweet spot of creative problem-solving for any endeavor. [18:06] - X is the epicenter of the problem, start there and THEN see how much of Y and Z you get to before your (set in stone) ship deadline. [19:37] - Kimberly shares some people’s approach to rescuing projects and the difference at 37signals. [20:02] - Jason talks about the false sense of security that comes from knowing everything that’s going on.  [21:12] - David shares how “sawing at the wheel” just makes you go slower. [21:57] - Are we done yet? Are we done? How constant interruptions slow projects down. [22:42] - How Basecamp’s

Unlike some tech giants that have notoriously pulled the plug on beloved products (remember Google's sudden discontinuation of Google Reader?), 37signals takes a vastly different approach with their pledge to support ALL of their products for the life of the internet.This week host Kimberly Rhodes sits down with Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, to explore the importance of longevity and trust in the SaaS industry.Drawing parallels to iconic brands like Porsche and Rolex, Jason and David take a deep dive into the challenges of product discontinuation and its impact on loyal customers. From Ta-da List to Basecamp, listen in as they reveal the principles that drive their support decisions and why longevity matters when building a brand that customers will rely on for decades.Check out the full video episode on YouTubeShow Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly introduces the podcast and the topic of 37signals' core principle to maintain its products until the end of the internet.[00:36] - David discusses the risk of relying on big companies for software services, sharing the recent example of Google killing off its domain selling service.[02:06] - David explains why Google tends to abandon services leaving users to deal with the aftermath.[03:50] - How to become a legacy brand—like Porsche.[05:20] - David shares 37signal's philosophy to keep products running until the end of the internet (example: 17 years of maintaining Ta-da List).[06:08] - Short-term profitability vs. long-term commitment to customers: The moral obligation (and trade-off) of maintaining legacy products.[08:07] - Kimberly draws a parallel between the changing ownership of mortgages and software services.[08:58] - Brand building through commitment and longevity. [10:05] - Jason shares how 37signals prioritizes their commitment to customers with their core apps.[12:16] - The challenge of balancing the desires of existing customers with the need to appeal to new customers. [15:47] - The most profitable product in the 37signals portfolio.[17:37] - Kimberly asks about the decision-making process between creating new versions of Basecamp versus adding features to the existing ones.[18:02] - Some updates are like facelifts—others involve fundamental changes. [20:20] - The costs involved in maintaining apps like Ta-da List.[21:35] - David highlights the BIG return on investment in brand power that comes with the commitment to maintaining products. [23:12] - How the murder of Google Reader still impacts users' trust in new Google products a decade later.[24:06] - The high failure rate of venture-backed companies.[23:48] - Did you know full video of episodes of Rework are available? Check out our YouTube channel or find us on Twitter. As always, if you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business, we’d love to answer them. Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email. And don’t forget you can find show notes and transcripts on our website.Links and Resources:From David's HEY World: You can't trust Google Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.comHEY World | HEY Dev.37signals37signals on YouTube

In today's fast-paced information-saturated world, advice is abundant, but it can be difficult to determine which sources are truly reliable.This week, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, the co-founders of 37signals, join host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the challenges of navigating the ever-growing sea of advice and how to choose the right guidance for your journey.Listen in as they share their thoughts on the expiration date of advice, the dangers of following someone else's prescribed path, and the value of trusting your own instincts.Watch the Full Episode on VideoShow Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly opens the show and introduces listeners to the topic of finding reliable business advice in today’s digital age. [00:40] - Jason shares why he wrote Advice Expires and why he and David are the wrong people to ask for advice about starting a business. [02:14] - David shares how the Internet's craving for content leads to conflicting advice and the value of trusting your own instincts.[04:16] - Ignore more advice than you take: turning the tide on the trend of collecting mentors and seeking advice from multiple sources.[05:04] - The value of being outside the Silicon Valley bubble.[05:44] - The importance of cultivating originality. [06:15] - The danger of following everyone else's formula for success. [07:38] - How the "Pinterestization" of our culture is diluting originality in favor of popularity.  [09:48] - The mystery behind success—Jason shares why you must be mindful of blindly emulating successful companies or individuals.  [10:52] - David discusses the “Halo Effect” and how success in one aspect doesn't necessarily mean excellence in all areas. [11:41] - The “awesomeness tradeoff”: how the book “Blue Ocean Strategy” puts a method to the idea that you can't be awesome at all the things all the time. [13:12] - Kimberly raises the issue of self-proclaimed experts on the Internet.[14:13] - Why "Rework" was so successful. [14:50] - The importance of a select set of core ideas or key values for more effective decision-making in a sea of options. [16:13] -Trusting your gut and the pitfalls of seeking too much advice.[17:13] - Kimberly asks Jason and David about their approach to seeking advice and executing decisions. [17:35] - Jason shares his approach to seeking advice and what his method depends upon.  [19:04] - David shares his preference for seeking guidance from "dead people." [20:03] - Reality as a mentor: the importance of contextualizing advice and learning through experimentation.[21:44] - The role of criticality when seeking advice.[22:08] - David shares why he continues to give advice and what people are really looking for.[22:34] - How the book "Maverick" by Ricardo Semler influenced the unconventional ideas and served as a benchmark for determining the level of "bat-shitness" in Jason and David’s decisions when they were starting out. [23:48] - Do you have qu

You’ve no doubt heard the 37signals team talking about leaving the cloud. Well, now the transition is complete!In this episode of Rework, 37signals co-founder David Heinemeier Hansson and Director of Operations Eron Nicholson sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the unexpected speed of the move, the decisions, the hurdles they faced, and the behind the scenes of the meticulous process of moving their major applications, including those that had never before been run outside the cloud.  Tune in as they share the secrets behind their successful approach and the unexpected trick that allowed them to tackle individual components without risking major disruptions. Plus, they address questions from listeners, covering topics such as backups, physical resets, and the future of their infrastructure. Listen in for an eye-opening conversation that challenges the prevailing narratives of the cloud era and delves into the untapped potential of running your own infrastructure. Show Notes:  [00:00] - Kimberly sits down with 37signals co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson, and director of operations, Eron Nicholson to discuss 37signals move away from the cloud.[00:39] - David shares their surprise at the quick completion of the move and the challenges they faced in planning and technology decisions.[01:26] - Out in six months: how the team, led by Eron, tackled the various aspects such as logging, failover, and managing two data centers while resolving numerous open questions along the way.[03:06] - An opportunity to question existing principles and processes, resulting in a novel approach. It felt like a product launch! [05:04] - Eron reflects on the accelerated timeline and how the entire ops and SIP team worked towards the same goal.[06:32] - How the criticality ladder approach allowed for smoother progress to more complex applications like Basecamp Classic.[08:47] - Eron explains the logistics and the unexpected trick that helped the team tackle individual components without risking significant disruptions.[10:52] - Moving HEY, 37signals most critical and complex app, that had never before been run outside the cloud. [11:23] - Kimberly opens the floor to a few user questions from Twitter, the first one from Pedro: "Did your company buy or already own your own data centers, or are you renting space in existing data centers? Is that even an option?"[11:50] - Running your own data center requires a gargantuan scale and enormous investment, but renting space in data centers makes it easy and capital-efficient.[14:29] - Amnesia of the pre-cloud era: using data centers is more accessible than most people think. [15:38] - Eron shares how to make the data centers work for you and your company. [16:39] - Kimberly shares a question from Moshi on Twitter: "Congrats on the move. Before deciding to move, did you try negotiating with any of the large clouds?"[16:54] - David shares their unique advantage in cloud pricing negotiations.[19:46] - Why the cloud math doesn't work: the fundamental misalignment (and huge surprise costs) that led 37signals to leave the cloud and how running your own infrastructure makes those financial surprises disappear. [21:11] - Kimberly shares a telling comment made by someone on David’s Twitter account. [22:26] - How the cloud marketing campaign has successfully convinced people they're dumber than they really are. [24:49] - "If you possess the know-how and resources, it absolutely makes sense to manage your own infrastructure." Eron shares the advantage that made the transition less daunting. [25:32] - Ki

This week, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founders of 37signals, join host Kimberly Rhodes to answer listener questions from the recent episode about Two-Person Teams. They tackle topics ranging from two-person team collaboration techniques to their innovative approach to team cooldown periods and the benefits for individuals and the overall project workflow. Listen in as they discuss their journey in refining the on-call process and the power of "spring cleaning" to address unresolved issues. Tune in to this episode for valuable advice based on questions asked by listeners like you.Show Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly dives into today’s episode with more listener questions sourced from various platforms beginning with Kenneth from LinkedIn and his question about how a two-person team can be resilient to vacation, sickness, and turnover.  [00:42] - Jason shares how having multiple two-person teams and time-boxed cycles allows for handling absences. [02:52] - "Scope is this magical flexible bubble of energy that you can squeeze into different size containers."[04:24] - A viewer on YouTube responds to David's remarks about trust in teams by asking if there are any prerequisites for trustworthy individuals. [04:51] - The critical foundation of a long-term collaboration: David shares why trusting employees is a worthwhile investment and how to establish the right boundaries within your organization to build trust.[08:30] - How the concept of the "trust battery" (introduced by Toby from Shopify) helps in understanding the dynamics of trust and its impact on relationships and perceptions.[10:02] - Trust is a gradual process that allows individuals to gain confidence and demonstrate their readiness for higher levels of responsibility.[11:23] - The next question comes from a voicemail inquiring about how Quality Assurance (QA) and testing are handled at 37signals and the interaction between QA and the six-week cycles of the Shape Up paradigm.[12:16] - David reveals the priorities of 37signal's recently revamped QA approach with two QA team members and no more reliance on external vendors.[13:12] - The importance of customer data using the example of the launch of a card table feature in Basecamp.[16:27] - You are responsible for your own work; the QA team is there to find the edge cases, not the other way around.[17:18] - QA (like many things) is everyone's job: how the 37signals model helps individuals level up more quickly AND ensures that the quality is right when things ship. [18:26] - Justice, a fan of Jason and David's books and products, emailed a question about how 37signals handles bugs, smaller tasks, and standalone features that vary in time requirements.[19:10] - Clearing up the confusion about the 6-week rule. The distinction between proactive and reactive work and ensuring efficient project handling.[21:49] - The 37signals "spring cleaning" approach to tackling non-critical but lingering issues, allowing for dedicated time for focused resolution while preventing constant interruptions in delivering ambitious goals.[24:11] - Cleaning up your own s***! An explanation of 37signals two-tier code system for handling issues [25:41] - How the on-call rotation works at 37signals.[25:51] - The on-call rhythm: a chance to stretch problem-solving muscles for a period. [27:37] - The vital role of the cooldown at 37signals: empowering developers and designers to recharge and fostering a balance between ambition and reflection.[31:41] - Do you have questions for David and Jason about a better way to work and run your business? Leave your voicemails at 708-628-7850 or send an email. Remember, you can find show notes and transcripts on our website. Links

When should small business owners start paying attention to AI? Is immediate action necessary, or are we already behind? In today's episode, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the landscape of AI and its implications for businesses. From the impact on small business owners to the ever-present question of falling behind, David and Jason explore the potentials and limitations of AI and its present and future impact on how we use technology. Tune in to learn how Jason and David are currently using AI and the importance of curiosity and safety when implementing AI tools in your business.  Show Notes: [00:00] - Kimberly introduces the topic of AI and its relevance to small business owners.[00:41] - Jason emphasizes curiosity over fear and reassures listeners that they are not falling behind in the world of AI.[01:26] - David acknowledges the hype and FOMO surrounding AI but highlights how easy it is to get started.[02:00] - The incredible potential and rapid evolution of AI.[03:15] - Jump in and explore AI without feeling left behind.[04:10] - The key to using AI effectively.[05:07] - The fast rate of change means there’s a lot we don’t know. [06:00] - “If you don't understand what's being produced, you'll hit the wall relatively quickly in terms of what you can do with it.” [06:46] - How often do you get to live during a time of this much uncertainty? Embrace it, but …[07:47] - AI is a big parlor trick right now. Jason shares why his best advice is to have fun with AI and some ways he's used it. [09:14] - Will Jason and David be bringing AI into 37signals?[09:57 ] - Beyond the smartphone—A potential shift in how we interact with technology. [10:55 ] - Using three paragraphs when two lines will do…the awful business language verbose bullshit AI is currently churning out is a  hilarious critique of corporate business-speak. [13:32 ] - How can businesses safely implement AI tools right now? [13:49 ] - "It's not like just going to a genie in the cloud." Why it's essential to be mindful of your personal data when using AI. [15:48 ] - The REWORK podcast is now on YouTube. Subscribe here. “Rework” is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website at 37signals.com/podcast. If you have a question for David and Jason about running a business, leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us to have your question answered on an upcoming episode.Links and Resources:From Jason’s HEY World: Two Visions of the Future From Jason’s HEY World: You can learn AI laterThe Reword Podcast on YouTube Do you have a question for Jason and David? Leave us a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us.HEY World | HEY Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com 37signals on YouTubeThe REWORK podcast

Time is a valuable resource that often leaves us longing for more hours to conquer our ever-expanding to-do lists. The relentless stream of emails, meetings, and responsibilities can easily hijack our concentration, reminding us that while we have 24 hours at our disposal, we don't have 24 hours of attention a day.In this episode of the Rework podcast, 37signals co-founders Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down with Kimberly Rhodes to present the concept of "bucketing" your time to make the most of your valuable hours. Tune in as Jason and David share their personal experiences with effective time bucketing, how they've successfully applied this strategy at 37signals, and the unique features offered by HEY, that allow users to manage their email within designated time buckets.Listen in to learn about the transformative power of time bucketing and escape the chaotic distractions for more control over your schedule, enhanced productivity, and a more balanced approach to work. Show Notes: [00:00] - Time is our most precious resource, today, Jason and David sit down with Kimberly to talk about the concept of bucketing your time.[00:39] - David shares how he most effectively buckets his time using one of the best features of HEY.[01:38] - How bucketing time helps teach you about efficiency and places limits on the amount of time you spend on specific tasks while still providing value. [03:27] - Jason shares the key to bucketing your time efficiently. [04:24] - The key to staying consciously focused. [05:24] - The difference between moving projects forward and just “doing stuff.” [06:17] - Squandered time creates a recipe for dread and dissatisfaction with work. [07:19] - Jason shares why he says no to attention-splintering obligations. [08:50] - “It's not just about time. It's about the commitment that you make, that you will not change your mind during that short period of time.”[09:32] - Bucketing time is for individuals, teams, and organizations who want to avoid the whiplash of being pulled back and forth and into and out of things.[10:11] - Why committing to completing is the key to moving forward.  [10:50] - Time and attention are very different things, and while you have 24 hours a day, you don't have 24 hours of attention a day.[12:30] - Humans don’t multitask: David shares the behind-the-scenes cost of breaking the flow.[13:21] - How 37signals has only three programmers working on features for Basecamp AND they're shipping stuff every six weeks. [14:34] - It starts at the top—how to break the addiction to ASAP pills to change the culture at your organization for better productivity, as depicted in Rework.[15:07] - Redefining your relationship with what's urgent.[15:55] - The key to telling yourself a different story for more control over your time. [17:35] - Setting boundaries can make you appear more valuable. [18:16] - Rework is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website here. [18:25] - If you have a question for David and Jason about running a business, leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us with questions to have it answered on an upcoming episode.Links and Resources:

It's been more than seven months since Elon Musk purchased Twitter. Since then, a reported 80% of the company has been let go, reducing their staff from just under 8,000 employees to around 1,500. With all that turmoil, many believed that Twitter would fail completely or stop working, but Twitter's still up!Today, host Kimberly Rhodes, Jason Fried, and David Heinemeier Hansson sit down to delve into the aftermath of Elon's controversial acquisition of Twitter, the surprises and lessons learned from this transformative event, and an exploration of the question, how many people do you really need to run your company effectively?Tune in as they share insights into their own experiences at 37signals and offer valuable lessons for entrepreneurs and business owners on the impact of Twitter's restructuring.Listen in as Jason and David discuss the resilience of Twitter, their initial predictions for the company, and the evolving dynamics of company size and efficiency. Show Notes:  [00:00] - Kimberly introduces the topic of today's show, which is all things Twitter, and asks, how many employees do you need? [00:55] - Jason shares that the fundamental point of view is that companies need fewer employees than they think. [01:41] - While there were casualties in terms of job losses, the system of Twitter still works—you don't need as many employees as you might think.[02:28] - When building a company, the lesson is to avoid hiring more people than necessary. [03:03] - David shares, “Twitter was morbidly obese.” The lesson is clear: Less is more, and lighter teams can move faster.[04:11] - The Twitter downsizing experiment is a real-life revelation. [05:30] - In stagnant organizations, some individuals may have had "bullshit jobs" that did not impact the company or customers.[07:01] - "Representative of the kind of company that Twitter was, I can totally see how they had six and a half thousand too many people." Plus, a former Twitter employee's experience highlights the depth of the issue (not a single thing that person had worked on ever made it into production).[09:00] - The primary advantage of being small is speed—it’s just physics—and it's business. [09:52] - The valuable lessons to be learned from Twitter.[10:24] - One of the most controversial decisions made by Musk that sparked widespread debate and contestation.[11:21] - One of the novel case studies of the entire tech history—reminiscent of when Steve Jobs returned to Apple in 1997. [12:21] - Speaking of Mr. Jobs - how he pared Apple down to the four things he thought Apple needed to be a top-tier company (and got rid of the bloat). [13:24] - Quoting another social media tech titan on Twitter prior to Musk's takeover.[14:43] - “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery’—spawning competition and breathing new life into an area that had become stagnant through experimentation.[15:25] - Twitter's complex challenge—there's no easy fix for creating a perfect 'town square of conversation' and the social media platform poised to unseat Twitter through its radical difference. [17:34] - Even a radical dislike of Elon can’t break the addiction to the network. [18:02] - Starting from 0 followers sucks, and building an audience is hard. [19:41] - Going from 200 to zero is still going to zero. Many networks fail to address the emotional impact of starting over—on HEY, the focus is on the pleasure of writing without analytics. [20:57] - You can find Jason on Twitter @jasonfried and David @dhh. “Rework” is a production of