

Therapist Uncensored Podcast
Sue Marriott LCSW, CGP & Ann Kelley PhD
Ranked as one of Apple’s Top 10 Social Science podcasts, Therapist Uncensored delivers trusted, science-backed insights on mental health and secure relationships. With over 11 million downloads worldwide, this female-led, independent podcast puts you right in the therapy room, making powerful psychological insights accessible and actionable. Co-hosts Sue Marriott, LCSW CGP and Ann Kelley, PhD break down complex ideas into practical wisdom you can use immediately. They’re joined by top neuroscientists, world-renown relationship experts and outside-the-box perspectives to share cutting-edge research and strategies for building stronger connections with yourself and others. Shownotes at www.therapistuncensored.com Transform how you understand your mind, your relationships, and yourself.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Aug 4, 2020 • 60min
TU127 Grandma Heals: Community-Based Mental Health Care from Zimbabwe with Dr. Ruth Verhey
Discover an innovative program that delivers mental health care with proven effectiveness in low-resource settings, the Friendship Bench. It is so effective and deliverable, it has now spread world-wide.
Researcher and program director Dr. Ruth Verhey and co-host Sue Marriott discuss this powerful community-based intervention, the Friendship Bench. Together, they explore the benefits and barriers to building a community-driven and cooperative approach to mental health. By looking at what makes it effective, we can begin to explore what makes therapy effective in general and learn from the need to strip away the “extra” that may not add value to mental healthcare.
If you enjoy this one you may be interested in others we have published:
Inspiring interview with Alphanso Appleton from Robertsport, Liberia discussing non-traditional therapy, click here: Episode 109 This is Resilience in Action
Who is Dr. Ruth Verhey?
Dr. Ruth Verhey is a clinical psychologist and EMDR consultant who focuses on creating and testing new models of mental health care delivery in low-resource settings. She is currently based in Harare Zimbabway where she co-directs the Friendship Bench, a community-based program which has been empirically proven to improve depression and common mental health disorders. Some of her research you’ll find below.
What is the Friendship Bench?
The Friendship Bench provides sustainable community-based psychological interventions that are evidence-based, accessible and scalable.
It started in Zimbabwe as an attempt to enhance overall quality of life. Now it has grown and become a worldwide project.
The concept is to build benches where anyone can come and talk through their struggles. The key is to provide them with individuals from their community who they can trust and really be heard by.
Program development: Dr. Verhey and her partners trained what they call “Grandmothers” to sit and be present for anyone who needs them. These Grandmothers are lay healthcare providers and aren’t all women, but are often respected and elderly members of the community.
Importantly, these Grandmothers and the Friendship Bench serve a therapeutic function. They work cooperatively with people in need and help build them up through a three step program.
Steps:
1. First, they open up the mind. In doing so, they break down the barriers to change and challenge the stigmas associated with different mental health experiences.
2. Second, they work to uplift the people who sit with them. The Grandmothers work hard to make sure people can feel heard and felt.
3. Third, they strengthen their patients. When the Grandmothers give even small boosters, they remind people that they are there and that they matter. This helps to lay a foundational experience of belonging and support which helps people grow in the long term.
It turns out – no surprise here if you think about it – the Friendship Bench didn’t just help the participants. The Grandmothers themselves also reported increased quality of life and lower rates of depression and anxiety. Helping others was key in building up their skills to help themselves. Really sitting and listening was healing in and of itself.
Friendship Bench Research & Resources
Website: www.frienshipbench.zimbabwe.org
The TEDTalk can be found here. We encourage you to watch it. Really, it’s so inspiring!
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20181015-how-one-bench-and-a-team-of-grandmothers-can-beat-depression
Effect of a Primary Care–Based Psychological Intervention on Symptoms of Common Mental Disorders in Zimbabwe A Randomized Clinical Trial 2016 Chibanda Journal of the American Medical Association
Lay Health Workers’ Experience of Delivering a Problem Solving Therapy Intervention for Common Mental Disorders Among People Living with HIV: A Qualitative Study from Zimbabwe 2016 Chibanda
Perceptions of HIV-related trauma in people living with HIV in Zimbabwe’s Friendship Bench Program: A qualitative analysis of counselors’ and clients’ experiences 2019 Verhey
Looking for CEU’s?? We’ve got you covered, use OURCLAN for 10% off –
It’s Not Me It’s My Amygdala – Advanced Course Connecting the Sciences of the Mind to Everyday Relationships
FOUR hours of quality content and 3 CE’s available to professionals.
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Jul 23, 2020 • 52min
TU126 – What Do We Mean by Modern Attachment? Sue Marriott & Ann Kelley Discuss
The podcast discusses the development and evolution of attachment theory, the impact of a caregiver's emotional experiences on parenting, challenges of transitioning to virtual therapy, and the concept of modern attachment and the attachment regulation spectrum.

Jul 10, 2020 • 1h 24min
TU125 – Dan Siegel & Tina Payne-Bryson: Parenting Under Stress
Learn the cheat code to parenting in a pandemic with Dr. Dan Siegel and Dr. Tina Payne-Bryson. We’re all struggling with some uncertainty and fear right now, and as a parent it can often be especially hard to know how to raise a child during the rise of Coronavirus. Join co-host Sue Marriott and expert guests Siegel and Payne-Bryson to unpack their new book The Power of Showing Up. In this episode they use interpersonal neurobiology to break down the science of attachment, and share what it means to show up. Applicable not just to those with children but in all relationships, their four legs of promoting secure attachment can change the way we relate to ourselves, and each other, for the better.
Learn more about real-life application of IPNB and the relational sciences in general by visiting us at TherapistUncensored.com
Shownotes for this episode:
Who is Dr. Dan Siegel?
The father of Interpersonal Neurobiology (IPNB) !! Yes, for real.
Clinical professor of psychiatry at the UCLA School of Medicine and the founding co-director of the Mindful Awareness Research Center at UCLA
Prolific author and thought leader
Who is Dr. Tina Bryson?
Psychotherapist and the Founder/Executive Director of The Center for Connection, a multidisciplinary clinical practice, and of The Play Strong Institute, a center devoted to the study, research, and practice of play therapy through a neurodevelopment lens
Author of “Bottom Line for Baby” a comprehensive overview of parenting science
New York Times bestselling author, “The Whole-Brain Child” and “No-Drama Discipline”
What is showing up?
First, showing up is more than just being physically there, it requires you to bring your full awareness to the present.
Importantly, it doesn’t mean that you’re perfect, it just means that you’re present.
It is the parenting cheat code, bringing a receptive awareness to your children is the most scientifically backed action you can take to help your child grow and develop.
Coronavirus and quarantine causing parental freak outs….
Secure attachment is super important during times of stress, anxiety, and uncertainty.
Attention is a precious resource, but it isn’t the same as awareness. There are two types of attention that we can have, especially during a global pandemic
Focal attention is when we have attention awareness. It is what we know we are focused on, and it requires effort to maintain it. Think of it like a focused concentration
Non-focal attention doesn’t involve that awareness. It is what happens when you get that little nagging feeling in the back of your mind
The virus draws a lot of non-focal attention, we’re all constantly being distracted by our environment and the fear and anxiety that it generates. Consequently, our focal attention is more easily lost and we can often find ourselves getting overwhelmed and dysregulated
So now is a time when we could all use a boost in our secure attachment system, to help stabilize and regulate those experiences. Especially with children, now is a time to be more aware of our presence and where we show up
This can be a time for re-defining ourselves, to work form a bottom up perspective at our routines and habits and attention to better fine tune it to form healthier and happier relationships.
What we can be doing? Attend to 4 things:
Safety
As parents, our children need to know us as a source of safety. Sometimes it can be even small things like being unpredictable or upset with customer service.
That being said, there is no such thing as perfection. We’re all human and we all make mistakes, the important part is what you do after that. Showing up is all about coming back and repairing any ruptures that were made.
As long as that repair is made, and the child learns in their body that the parent can be a stabilizing force, the attachment network can grow
Talking about safety in an unsafe time is important as well. It helps cement the idea in the child that my parents keep me safe. But we can do that in a way that doesn’t overwhelm us with fear. We can get our children used to masks with silliness and play, or we can talk about doing XYZ because “it keeps us safer” and not because “it’s dangerous to go outside”
Seen
To help grow our child’s attachment system, and to help them feel safe, they need to feel understood.
Recently parenting has gotten focused on what behavior is the child engaging in, but to show up and be present you need to feel the mind behind the action. It is important to ask, what is my child’s internal experience that is causing this behavior?
Turning your attention to the child in this way tells them that when they share their thoughts and feelings with their parents it works well for them. They can feel relaxed and know that their parents really got them.
This doesn’t always mean you have to agree with the child or their behavior, but really seeing where it’s coming from helps the child settle into their body and is a great way to co-regulate their experience.
Also, don’t forget to make sure that you see yourself. Check in with your own mind and body. Remember that you can’t help others if you don’t know how to help yourself.
Excitingly, it’s never too late to learn! Especially now, we can all change and adapt our internal working models to be more flexible and self-reflective.
Soothed
When the child can have an interactive experience of being both safe, and seen, then they can begin to be soothed.
Together with the child, we can build the circuitry in our own brains to help regulate states of dysregulation, to move back towards harmony within your body.
In this way, we can grow our window of tolerance to ensure that as we experience fear, anxiety, loneliness, etc. we can still stay integrated, grounded and connected.
It is important to practice this with our children, as our ability to do that inner regulation comes from those safe experiences of interactive regulation.
We don’t even need to fix every problem or do anything dramatic. As a parent just showing up in that moment and connecting with them, sitting in the discomfort with them, helps us both grow our window of tolerance and return our bodies back to a safe and integrated space.
Secure
Ultimately, all of these practices come together to help our children feel secure. The brain knows that if they have a need someone will show up for them.
This helps them grow up to have healthier and more secure relationships with significant others, their peers, and their own children later in life.
References
“The Power of Showing Up: How Parental Presence Shapes Who Our Kids Become and How Their Brains Get Wired” by Dr. Dan Siegel and Dr. Tina Bryson
“The Yes Brain” by Dr. Dan Siegel and Dr. Tina Bryson
“The Power of Discord: Why the Ups and Downs of Relationships Are the Secret to Building Intimacy, Resilience, and Trust” by Dr. Claudia Gold and Dr. Ed Tronick
“The Bottom Line for Baby: From Sleep Training to Screens, Thumb Sucking to Tummy Time–What the Science Says” by Dr. Tina Bryson
Websites:
www.drdansiegel.com
www.tinabrson.com
www.mindsightinstitute.com
www.thecenterforconnection.org
More content like this on Therapist Uncensored podcast:
Neuroscience of Psychotherapy Episode 36 https://therapistuncensored.com/episodes/tu36-the-neuroscience-of-psychotherapy-an-interview-with-louis-cozolino/
It’s Not Crazy It’s a Solution to an Unsolvable Problem – Disorganized Attachment Episode 61
It’s Not Me It’s My Amygdala – Advanced Course Connecting the Sciences of the Mind to Everyday Relationships
FOUR hours of quality content and 3 CE’s available to professionals.
Since you are this deep into our shownotes, then you are indeed one of our peeps and thus invited to be part of our clan 🙂
GET 10% off this signature course by using code OURCLAN! –
Don’t want the beast of the course but want a bit more of this mojo? Find us on FB or better yet, join our private online Neuronerd community to gain more access, get course discounts and support this valuable educational podcast freely be distributed to the world!
Most importantly – share the hope and science of secure relating with somebody else so we can keep it going.

Jun 30, 2020 • 1h 8min
TU124 – Hip Hop as Therapy: Beat Making, Lyrics & Community Empowerment
Hip hop heals
Our guests Dr. Eliot Gann and Dr. Raphael Travis shed light on how hip hop can help resolve the deep need for self-expression and trauma processing, especially in black and brown communities. Music-makers in hip hop culture are some of the greatest writers of our generation. These lyricsts use in depth metaphor, satire, and word play to express widely shared feelings. This process literally gives a voice to experiences that are otherwise unexplainable.
Hip hop, rap and R&B are more than just music for the club. Connecting through music creation can be used to bridge disempowered groups. Our guests bring to light the importance of learning about and respecting this genre. It can engage people of culture (POC) to heal trauma, empower self-expression, and grow communities.
In this second half of our interview, co-host Ann Kelley dives into the healing power of hip hop with Dr. Elliot Gannhael and Dr. Raphael Travis. We explore what makes hip hop unique, how it can be used in schools, detention centers and clinical work, as well as how we can each grow through hip hop culture.
If you missed it – here is the first half of the conversation, Episode 123 The Healing Power of Fear, Protest, George Floyd and Community Empowerment with Dr. Raphael Travis. However don’t worry, this episode stands on it’s own and it is OK to just start here, you won’t be lost.
Dr. Elliot Gann – Therapeutic Beat Making
Executive Director at Today’s Future Sound (TFS)
Creator of the Therapeutic Beat Making (TBM) model for healing and development
D. of Clinical Psychology from the Wright Institute, specializing in Children and Adolescents
Who is our expert guest, Dr. Raphael Travis? lyrics hip hop and rap
Associate Professor and BSW Program Director at Texas State University’s School of Social Work
Specializes in youth empowerment and community development through creative arts, specifically Hip-Hop culture
Author of “The Healing Power of Hip Hop”
Leads the Collaborative Research for Education, Art, and Therapeutic Engagement (CREATE) Lab which works with educators and artists to understand the therapeutic and educational benefits of music
Show Notes for this Episode:
Five Dimensions of Empowerment
Hip Hop culture serves to foster five major dimensions of empowerment
Esteem – it is a safe place to build ones confidence and experience, people can leave with an actualizable accomplishment that is fully their own. It helps develop a strong sense of agency in their own creation
Resilience – it gives people an outlet to express trauma or struggle. It helps put words to the experiences they’ve had and is a constructive coping mechanism
Growth – it requires an introspective atmosphere. Unpacking what the lyrics and beat mean to you opens up new possibilities within the body
Community – it is a co-regulating process. Groups can come together to either create or celebrate hip hop, and through the collective experience of the beat there is a bond built.
Change – it builds on lived experiences, and asks us to all better ourselves and the community around us through a collective growth and development
What can hip hop and music therapy do?
Hip hop can be used as a powerful therapeutic tool. It’s a relational, fun, and joyful way of letting your guard down. It is also an expressive, cathartic release. In addition, it also is a self-actualizing experience, the body gets to create something unique and special all on their own.
Lyrics for self expression
Hip hop serves as a vehicle to resolve the deep need for self-expression and trauma in black and brown communities. Lyricists and writers in hip hop culture are some of the greatest writers of our generation, they can use in depth metaphor, satire, and word play to express widely shared feelings. This process literally gives a voice to experiences that are otherwise unexplainable.
Beats for self expression and regulation
Often students and patients struggle to engage with insight-oriented work at the start. Beat making can help warm up the body, and lower the body’s defenses. Through beat making, the body relaxes and enters more readily into a flow state, an open and relaxed place, from which a deeper connection and growth can occur.
Our Biases
For people unfamiliar with hip hop and rap, or truthfully for white people in general, there is often an aversion to the genre. It can be experienced as violent, misogynistic, and overly sexualized. You aren’t wrong for hearing some of those themes in hip hop and rap, but there are a couple of things to keep in mind
We’re only seeing a very small sample. Hip hop has a decades old history, and there are millions of songs in thousands of different sub-genera’s, not all hip hop has the same elements or themes
Our experiences listening to each song are subjective. Each person filters each song through their own lived experiences and biases
Specifically, white people’s bodies are primed from a young age by our society to hear energetic black voices, especially black male voices, as violent or scary. Also, we’re programmed to hear specific narratives of aggression or misogyny and to react negatively to sounds of black empowerment
Hip hop arises out of struggle and is a way to voice trauma, or an outlet to express healing from that inter-generational experience. On some level it has to address graphic material
The most violent or explicit songs get pushed in the national market. Studio executives, who are primarily white, have a financial incentive to sell and promote the most sensationalized and explicit songs because the listeners experiences catharsis while they consume those fantasies and desires
Resources
“Using Therapeutic Beat Making and lyrics for empowerment” by Dr. Raphael Travis and Dr. Elliot Gann
Breaking Down The Therapeutic Beat Making Model with Dr. Elliot Gann aka Phillipdrummond
“The Healing Power of Hip Hop (Intersection of Race, Ethnicity, and Culture)” by Dr. Raphael Travis
“Hip Hop, empowerment, and therapeutic beat-making: Potential solutions for summer learning loss, depression, and anxiety in youth” by Dr. Raphael Travis
“Rap Music and Empowerment of Today’s Youth: Evidence in Everyday Music Listening, Music Therapy, and Commercial Rap Music” by Dr. Raphael Travis
“Strategies and mechanisms in musical affect self-regulation: A new model” by Margarida Baltazar, and Suvi Saarikallio
“White Fragility” by Dr. Robin Diangelo
Black Trans Advocacy Coalition
Contact Information – Elliot Gann E-mail: egann@todaysfuturesound.org
Website: https://todaysfuturesound.org/about/
or at youtube.com/todaysfuturesound
Twitter: @TFS_beats Music Mixes: https://audiomack.com/artist/dj-hoodwin TRIO Conference Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL1_OpyIa-Q&feature=youtu.be
Contact Information & Resources – Dr. Raphael Travis E-mail: rtravis@txstate.edu or raptjr@gmail.com ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Raphael_Travis Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FlowstoryATX/ IG/Twitter: @raptjr @FlowStoryATX Music Mixes: https://audiomack.com/artist/dj-hoodwin TRIO Conference Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL1_OpyIa-Q&feature=youtu.be #HealingPowerofHipHop #MUZUZE #EMPYD #CREATELABTXST _____________
BOOK WE ARE LOVING RIGHT NOW – get it on audible for free right here. “My Grandmother’s Hands: Racialized Trauma and the Pathway to Mending Our Hearts and Bodies” by Resmaa Menakem _____________
Our course on Attachment and Neuroscience – It’s Not Me It’s My Amygdala, is now available! Four (!) hours of curated content on modern attachment and healing. It is designed for anyone wanting to deepen security in themselves or those close to you (CE’s available for clinicians). You’ve been interested enough to listen and dig into the shownotes, so you are our people and we are yours. Get 10% of the course with code: OURCLAN. CLICK HERE TO CHECK OUT THE COURSE
Join like-minded peers promoting the relational sciences as a Patreon Neuronerd supporter of the show.

Jun 22, 2020 • 51min
TU123 – Narratives of Fear: George Floyd, Protest, and Community Empowerment with Dr. Raphael Travis
George Floyd. Breonna Taylor. Tony McDade. Sandra Bland. Rayshard Brooks. Tamir Rice. Emmett Till… and so on.
The violence enacted by the criminal justice system isn’t new, so what makes this moment feel so different? Dr. Raphael Travis and Dr. Elliott Gann join co-host Ann Kelley to break down the now global protests against the murder of George Floyd. Together they explore the role of youth empowerment, coronavirus, and narrative storytelling in helping fuel the biggest social movement in decades. This episode focuses on Dr. Travis’ experience, the second episode (see link below) dives into Dr. Elliott Gann’s innovate and cutting edge work as well.
This is a 2-part conversation on community empowerment and using hip hop – beat making and lyrics – as a therapeutic goal.
Find episode TU24 Beat-Making, Lyrics and Community Empowerment with Dr. Elliot Gann and Dr. Raphael Travis with right here
Who is Dr. Raphael Travis?
Associate Professor and MSW Program Director at Texas State University’s School of Social Work
Founder and Executive Director of Flow Story, PLLC
Specializes in youth empowerment and community development through creative arts, specifically Hip-Hop culture
Author of “The Healing Power of Hip Hop”
Leads the Collaborative Research for Education, Art, and Therapeutic Engagement (CREATE) Lab which works with educators and artists to understand the therapeutic and educational benefits of music
Show Notes for this Episode….
Why now?
The energy of the youth
Like most social movements throughout history, this one is largely being led by youth
Police brutality and white supremacy systemically cut off healthy development of communities by taking mothers and fathers
How can anyone feel safe or like they belong if they know they are always at risk of that disruption
Expansion of hyper-surveillance results in the buildup of the stress response in the body
Youthful energy to take that inter-generational trauma and say “we’re not putting up with this anymore”
Even though this is led by youth, these experiences of violence is nothing new, the story is the same but the particulars are different
Narrative development
Social media and the expansion of counter-narratives allows for a proliferation of alternative visions of the world
Those serve to counter the mainstream stereotypes and understandings to force people to view events in a different light
Expansion of SEL (Social and Emotional Learning) within schools and society develops greater empathy and capacity for self-reflection
Forcing white people to step out of their comfort zone, a shift in our own internal narrative, a greater opening up of communal recognition
Coronavirus
Living in a state of constant fear and anxiety about going out in public is a new feeling for white people, the pandemic as an unseen threat that could take you at any time
Experiencing just a fraction of the fear people of color experience helps make people more receptive towards shifting their own internal narrative
It generated an expanded understanding of communal responsibility, a narrative shift away from an individual self-focused approached to risk towards a great communal goal
What has been surprising?
Dr. Travis was hopeful and surprised by the amount of diversity within this movement. The increased messaging that silence is complicity helps force people into that un-comfort zone which allows them to question their own fears, assumptions, and narratives. It gives people who feel like they otherwise couldn’t have engaged permission to now.
Where do we go from here?
We still need consistent pressure and energy. However, we’ve seen promising changes at the level of policy and at the level of the body. First, policy reforms have happened, and will continue to happen, and we should continue to push for them with our presence and our voice. Also, societal reforms are also happening at the level of each individual body. Indeed, there is a narrative shift within each us as we move to be more open to connection, empathy, and understanding. We all need to continue to pay attention, listen, and grow together as a community as this develops.
Resources
“The Healing Power of Hip Hop (Intersection of Race, Ethnicity, and Culture)” by Dr. Raphael Travis
“Using Therapeutic Beat Making and Lyrics for Empowerment” by Dr. Raphael Travis and Dr. Elliot Gann
Breaking Down The Therapeutic Beat Making Model with Dr. Elliot Gann aka Phillipdrummon
“Say Their Names” by Kadir Nelson
“White Fragility – Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk about Racism” by Dr. Robin Diangelo
Black Trans Advocacy Coalition
“Race After Technology: Abolitionist Tools for the New Jim Code” by Ruha Benjamin
“White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack” by Peggy Mcintosh
“White Awake: An Honest Look at What it Means to be White” by Daniel Hill
Contact Information & Resources:
Find Dr. Travis here –
E-mail: rtravis@txstate.edu or raptjr@gmail.com
ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Raphael_Travis
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FlowstoryATX/
IG/Twitter: @raptjr @FlowStoryATX
Music Mixes: https://audiomack.com/artist/dj-hoodwin
TRIO Conference Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL1_OpyIa-Q&feature=youtu.be
#HealingPowerofHipHop #MUZUZE #EMPYD #CREATELABTXST
Find Dr. Gann here –
egann@todaysfuturesound.org
Website: https://todaysfuturesound.org/about/
or at youtube.com/todaysfuturesound
Twitter: @TFS_beats Music Mixes: https://audiomack.com/artist/dj-hoodwin TRIO Conference Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL1_OpyIa-Q&feature=youtu.be
_____________
BOOK WE ARE LOVING RIGHT NOW – get it on audible for free right here.
“My Grandmother’s Hands: Racialized Trauma and the Pathway to Mending Our Hearts and Bodies” by Resmaa Menakem
_____________
Other Episodes You May Enjoy –
TU120: Finding Security During Coronavirus Isolation with Dr. David Elliott
TU118: Mental Health Support During this Damn Coronavirus Pandemic
_____________
Our course on Attachment and Neuroscience – It’s Not Me It’s My Amygdala, is now available to everyone! Four (!) hours of curated content on modern attachment and healing. It is designed for anyone wanting to deepen security in themselves or those close to you (CE’s available for clinicians). You’ve been interested enough to listen and dig into the shownotes, so you are are people and we are yours. Get 10% of the course with code: OURCLAN.
CLICK HERE TO CHECK OUT THE COURSE
Join like-minded peers promoting the relational sciences as a Patreon Neuronerd supporter of the show.

May 19, 2020 • 58min
TU122: Loving & Living with Adult Attention Deficit Disorder (or ADHD) with Ari Tuckman
When we think of ADHD, we often imagine a restless & fidgety child who loses focus rather than the grown up parent or partner these kids eventually become. It is a legit neurological condition – yet adults with ADHD or ADD often believe that they are forgetful, lazy, selfish & disorganized. Unfortunately sometimes so do their partners. This episode will help you appreciate your unique gifts, or value your distractible partner.
“ADHD doesn’t create new problems, it just exacerbates the universal ones.”
Co-host Ann Kelley speaks with Ari Tuckman, psychologist, certified sex therapist who specializing in ADHD within relationships, and he sheds light on how ADHD can impact our relationships, from conflict to sex, and outlines ways to improve both.
In relationships, couples often fall into imbalance, over-functioning and under-functioning. You recognize it – the one who manages order and responsibilities (aka “control freak”) and the other looking for spontaneity and fun (aka “irresponsible one”).
Who is Ari Tuckman?
Ari Tuckman, PsyD, CST is a psychologist and certified sex therapist in private practice specializing in diagnosing and treating children, teens, and adults with ADHD, as well as couples and sex therapy. He has appeared on CNN, National Public Radio, and XM Radio and been quoted in The New York Times, USA Today, The Washington Post, The Boston Globe, USnews.com, The Daily Mail (UK), and many other media outlets.
See his full bio below.
Understanding Adult ADHD – today’s episode
Ari advocates for ADHD awareness so adults and therapists can actively recognize it in others because it does not just affect children.
These children grow up and continue to have ADHD make up about 4% of the general population, that is 1 in 25.
Effects of non-diagnosed ADHD can be painful and complex: common effects include anxiety, depression, bipolar, marital discord, and substance abuse issues.
If you don’t look for symptoms of ADHD, you may not find it, and that is painful and problematic for everyone involved.
What can we see in our office, partners, and ourselves to know if we have ADHD?
Not everyone with attentional issues has the classic symptoms of being hyperactive. It shows up in adults as inattentive symptoms like time management, disorganization, forgetfulness, procrastination, and misplacing things. That is why in adults what you actually see in Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD).
When someone in your immediate family has it, there’s a 25% chance that you might have it too.
People who have distractibility will see the symptoms show up in many stages of their life – childhood, college, as a young adult. The symptoms can show up in their job, or at home.
Untreated or unrecognized attention issues affects school performance, career attainment, lifelong learnings, car accidents, relationship satisfaction – it’s always there and impacts your life interactions.
When it goes undiagnosed it can drastically influence your self-esteem – but when diagnosed you can have a better understanding of your behavior.
Medication can work very well, risk/side effects are very low, not addictive if used appropriately, and can reduce substance abuse problems when addressed first.
Why give a stimulate to someone that would seemingly be “hyperactive?”
The medications act as “brake fluid” so those affected are able to “hit the brakes” more easily before acting.
When adults take ADHD medication, it gives them the ability to limit or be aware of thoughts that deter them from the task at hand. Without the medication, the thought of the task at hand can develop into many thoughts leading to being distracted, possibly forgetting, and then punishing themselves for forgetting. Ultimately, this leads to negative thoughts, anxiety, or those close to them believing the task is being neglected.
The person with more focus can become bothered by this repeated behavior and the partner with ADHD will either become down and depressed and/or angry and reactive when they feel targeted by the non-ADHD partner. Generally, both will happen. One can become angry and reactive when receiving negative feedback and down and depressed when feeling they can’t do anything right.
People with ADHD are capable of being very focused during specific moments, like when receiving negative feedback, but then they are held to that standard at all times.
Spouses begin to become angry because they witness the ADHD person focus on some things and not on others. They can get triggered and feel neglected.
A neurological syndrome
It doesn’t create new problems, it just exacerbates the universal ones. The common solution to the problem between a partner with ADHD and the non-ADHD person: the person undiagnosed just needs to step up! This is not sustainable or realistic, it’s like asking a depressed person to cheer up!
The less obvious solution: The non-ADHD partner also needs to learn to step back, accept uncertainty, learn to manage their own anxiety, and choose their battles. Both partners can negotiate and express expectations but have understanding and compassion.
Ann and Ari provide examples of issues that can arise between a couple of a non-ADHD and a person with ADHD and how they can work as a team to resolve it.
Ari speaks about his book, ADHD After Dark and about the relationship between ADHD and sexual relationships based on his survey of over 4,000 individuals and 72 questions.
_____
RESOURCES:
Additional resources for this episode:
Ari Tuckman’s Website http://adultadhdbook.com/
Ari Tuckman’s Website https://tuckmanpsych.com/
Ari Tuckman’s Book: More Attention, Less Deficit: Success Strategies for Adults with ADHD
Ari Tuckman’s Book: ADHD After Dark: Better Sex Life, Better Relationship
CHADD.org – leading nonprofit organization serving people affected by ADHD.
These and other resources have been collected for you on our Resources page!
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Ari Tuckman’s Bio:
Ari Tuckman, PsyD, CST is a psychologist, Certified Sex Therapist, and ADHD expert in private practice in West Chester, PA. His fourth book (ADHD After Dark: Better Sex Life, Better Relationship) helps couples improve their sexual and relationship satisfaction. He has done more than 400 presentations and interviews across America and in nine countries. You can find information about his books, upcoming presentations, and recordings of past presentations at adultADHDbook.com._
Our course on Attachment and Neuroscience – It’s Not Me It’s My Amygdala, is now available to everyone! Four (!) hours of curated content on modern attachment and healing. It is designed for anyone wanting to deepen security in themselves or those close to you (CE’s available for clinicians). You’ve been interested enough to listen and dig into the shownotes, so you are are people and we are yours. Get 10% of the course with code: OURCLAN. 🙂
CLICK HERE TO CHECK OUT THE COURSE
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May 8, 2020 • 54min
TU121: Redefining the Purpose of Relationships During Quarantine with Stan Tatkin
With the tsunami of unclear and contradictory yet potentially life-threatening information coming at us right now in quaratine – it’s no wonder there is so much conflict within groups that are/were quarantining together. Reasonable people can interpret the suggestions very differently, in this episode we go into how to navigate how to manage right now.
Why Stan Tatkin?
Stan Tatkin was one of as the first guests on the Therapist Uncensored Podcast and is so awesome, we are bringing him back for a second interview. (Listen to the first episode here.)He is one of the best translators of the science to application in the real world, so we really want to connect our audience with him. He’s has a wealth of resources for ya!
See full bio below.
Bringing security to your partnerships during COVID-19 – today’s episode
During this Coronavirus pandemic, the existential threat is more apparent and strain within a couple starts to become more apparent.
Partners are faced with understanding the goals of their relationship and whether or not they are moving in the right direction. Reasons to be together beyond loving each other and having children together.
Many have been faced with breakups, running away, move in, or getting married during this existential time.
Having an understanding that there is always an existential threat every day but we are being faced with it more closely during this time.
Automation – getting off auto-pilot.
Before and during the pandemic our partnered relationships have been on auto-pilot where “you know your partner,” react out of memory/trauma, or take your relationship for granted.
PACT – Psychobiological Approach to Couples Therapy
Homosapiens by nature are aggressive, war-like, comparing, and opportunistic and are being flighty because of the pandemic.
How do pair-bound all of the time and not when things are going wrong/when we need more safety?
By nature, we are pack animals and are built to be interdependent and have a shared purpose with a partner. (Ex: survive and thrive)
With your partner, create an agreement, a culture, and a shared vision and purpose for being together.
Love is not enough
Emotions can fluctuate. A state of purpose and a goal is what can remain consistent in a partnership.
Insecure model – “It’s my way or the highway,” where the individual is “pro-self” not “pro-relationship.”
With attachment, we take the injustices and take them to our future relationships.
Every couple has a duty to design their own ethos and culture, to layout ground rules of “what we do and don’t do.”
Examples: “We protect each other. Our relationship always comes first. We support each other to perform well but not at the cost of the relationship. We are always working towards bringing peace and harmony to the relationship.”
Partners who do not agree on core values and will continue to disassociate.
Mature long-running relationships that will last a lifetime where partners vow to operate from principles of fairness, justice, sensitivity, cooperation, creating win-win outcomes where they move together towards the same goal.
Be collaborative about an issue or creating a new goal together to be on the same page on thoughts and feelings. Sue and Stan provide conversation examples of how that can be accomplished.
Commitment (the C-word)
Committing to making the partnership as successful as possible.
People who are threatened will create threats.
Single security about understanding what each individual feels, self-correct and approach from a friendly way to resolve the conflict. Only one needs to remember to self-correct to move towards resolution and the other will follow.
Co-regulation – having each partner be active towards regulating each other to shift towards taking care of each other.
Pay to play
In adulthood, there is conditional love, which makes us more accountable for each other.
The couple and the principles are the guiding light on where to go.
During this pandemic time, is a good time to think about your life purpose with your primary partner and your loved ones.
Knowing that our time is limited and being present with your loved ones. Guiding principles of secure functioning to thinking about your life meaning and purpose to overcome these threats.
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RESOURCES:
Additional resources for this episode:
PACT Institute – Psychobiological Approach to Couple Therapy
(Offers global therapist training programs and couple retreats)
We Do: Saying Yes to a Relationship of Depth, True Connection, and Enduring Love by Stan Tatkin
Your Brain on Love: The Neurobiology of Healthy Relationships by Stan Tatkin
Stan Tatkin’s Ted Talk: Relationships Are Hard, But Why?
Stan Tatkin’s
Instagram
Facebook
Twitter
These and other resources have been collected for you on our Resources page!
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Stan Tatkin’s Bio:
Clinician, author, PACT developer, and co-founder of the PACT Institute, Dr. Stan Tatkin teaches at UCLA, maintains a private practice in Southern California, and leads PACT programs in the US and internationally. He is the author Wired for Dating, Wired for Love, Your Brain on Love, and co-author of Love and War in Intimate Relationships. Dr. Stan Tatkin is on the board of directors of Lifespan Learning Institute and serves as an advisory board member of Relationships First, a nonprofit organization founded by Harville Hendrix and Helen LaKelly Hunt.
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Our course on Attachment and Neuroscience – It’s Not Me It’s My Amygdala, is now available to everyone! Four (!) hours of curated content on modern attachment and healing. It is designed for anyone wanting to deepen security in themselves or those close to you (CE’s available for clinicians). You’ve been interested enough to listen and dig into the shownotes, so you are are people and we are yours. Get 10% of the course with code: OURCLAN. 🙂
CLICK HERE TO CHECK OUT THE COURSE
______
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Gain greater access and support this cool content getting out to the world
You can become a Neuronerd supporter and help the show continue to grow! Join our exclusive community of Therapist Uncensored Neuronerds for as little as $5 a month (or become a Co-executive Producer for $25/month)!
Increase your access, join a kick-ass like-minded community, get discounts on our courses and get exclusive content. Help us create a ripple of security by supporting us in freely sharing the science of relationships around the globe!
NEURONERDS UNITE! Click here to sign up.
BOOK of the MONTH – get it on audible for free right here.
Maybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb
(interview with her coming soon…)

Apr 27, 2020 • 48min
TU120: Finding Security and Healing Attachment with Dr. David Elliott
Dr. David Elliott, an expert in healing attachment, discusses using the power of imagination and positive imagery to find connection and regulate emotions during the pandemic. He emphasizes the importance of relationships and strategies for addressing attachment trauma, and explores the impact of uncertainty on our nervous system. The chapter also delves into the power of imagination, its effect on the brain, and using it to overcome challenges. Additionally, Dr. Elliott shares insights on healing attachment wounds through imaginative connection and acknowledging the grief of missed opportunities.

Apr 8, 2020 • 50min
TU119: For the Love of Men, Rethinking Masculinity with Liz Plank
It isn’t a war between the genders, it’s a war between those interested in freedom of individual expression and equality, and those wedded to and defending the patriarchal script.
“I measure activism based on impact… .” – Liz Plank
In this episode, co-host Sue Marriott speaks with Liz Plank, one of the worlds most powerful and influential voices for gender and policy.
Who is Liz Plank?
Liz Plank is an award-winning journalist and senior producer at Vox Media. Her TedxTalk, How to Be a Man: A Woman’s Guide inspired her first book, For the Love of Men: A New Vision for Mindful Masculinity, where she “offers a smart, insightful, and deeply-researched guide for what we’re all going to do about toxic masculinity. For both women looking to guide the men in their lives and men who want to do better and just don’t know how.”
Mediaite’s Most Influential in New Media
50 Most Influential Women by Marie Claire
Forbes’ 30 Under 30 in Media
Episode 119 Show Notes:
Why do we need more storytelling around men?
More progress regarding issues around domestic & sexual violence if men were more involved in the conversation.
Human rights are not a finite resource and when there is more equality, the better it is for everyone.
Open the conversation for men to talk about masculinity and what it means to be a man because they do not feel safe doing so.
Having an empathic conversation about feminism that includes all genders, a movement that benefits the whole society.
Rewriting Gender Roles
The lack of conversations regarding masculinity between men.
Following gender roles based on societal pressures and family development.
Exploring historical and cultural examples of how gender roles change and vary to give men permission to explore their identity.
A shift in the younger generation being accepting of gender fluidity.
What It Means To Be A Man
Identifying as a provider when many jobs traditionally done by men are disappearing or moving overseas.
Starting to have the opportunity to have an identity outside of their career.
Have both genders shoulder the emotional burden and do the work to heal.
Narcissism & Toxic Masculinity
There is a higher percentage of narcissism in men.
Have more female leadership represented in entertainment & media to provide an understanding of female complexity.
Education
Encouraging curriculum that teaches anti-violence, anti-sexual assault, verbal consent, emotional intelligence, and interpersonal relationships.
A universal understanding that we all experience similar emotions and social anxiety so we can all advocate for each other.
Liz’s Influence:
Wanting to measure her activism based on impact.
Wanting everyone to feel welcome to this conversation on masculinity and help men go through their emotional labor.
Continue to open the conversation for men of influence to discuss masculinity openly.
Masculinity Influence:
Brad Pitt speaking openly about masculinity to give others permission to do the same.
Tim Ferriss expressing that external performance is not where “success” is and inner work is the harder challenge but more important.
Liz’s Recommendations:
The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks
Thomas Page McBee
Wade Davis
Learn about and connect with Liz:
For the Love of Men: A New Vision for Mindful Masculinity
TED Talk How to Be a Man, A Woman’s Guide
Twitter
Instagram
Web Series
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Our course on Attachment and Neuroscience – It’s Not Me It’s My Amygdala, is now available to everyone! Four (!) hours of curated content on modern attachment and healing. It is designed for anyone wanting to deepen security in themselves or those close to you (CE’s available for clinicians).
You’ve been interested enough to listen and dig into the shownotes, so you are are people and we are yours. Get 10% of the course with code: OURCLAN. 🙂
CLICK HERE TO CHECK OUT THE COURSE
______
Want to help Therapist Uncensored keep going?
We are on Patreon!
You can become a Neuronerd supporter and help the show continue to grow!
Join our exclusive community of Therapist Uncensored Neuronerds for as little as $5 a month (or become a Co-executive Producer for $25/month)!
Increase your access, join a kick-ass like-minded community, get discounts on our courses and get exclusive content.
Help us create a ripple of security by supporting us in freely sharing the science of relationships around the globe!
NEURONERDS UNITE! Click here to sign up.
BOOK of the MONTH – get it on audible for free right here
For the Love of Men A New Vision for Mindful Masculinity by Liz Plank

Mar 30, 2020 • 41min
TU118: Mental Health Support During this Damn Coronavirus Pandemic
Calm is contagious, too! Coping through Coronavirus.
Our hearts hurt for those affected by COVID. Those who are ill, survivors of those taken by the virus, service employee’s continuing to work, front-line medical and science warriors, those who lost their job or savings, those who are isolated alone and those stuck at home in harsh relationships or with kids out of school and needy… it’s all relative. It doesn’t help to compare pain – pain is pain – we all need support through this coronavirus pandemic. Period.
So let’s clasp hands and co-regulate one another through this as best we can.
In this episode, Sue and Ann discuss how we are collectively processing the coronavirus pandemic and provide some tools on how we can regulate our emotions during these coronavirus times. We are having experiences that are creating emotions that we do not normally have from a day-to-day basis and will have to understand how to process.
Get the Facts but don’t Rubber-Neck (southern term I think, slowing down and looking hard at a wreck on the freeway even though you don’t really want to see). Use social media purposefully, don’t get hooked watching the stats there is nothing to see there that will help us cope. It’s being covered each time as new news, so our nervous system stays in alert. Limit social media and create your bubble of safety.
Use sources you trust and don’t act from rumors.
Name your feelings – identify the specific source rather than live in ocean of free-floating anxiety. Better to be afraid for your mom or your 401 K than feel the weight of anxiety globally.
Connect socially as part of your ADL’s – activities of daily living.
Breathing Techniques – Breathing in for a count of 5 and exhaling for a count of 5.
Imagery – Imagining a sense of calm and safety in your environment and community. Use your mind to soothe and comfort yourself – this is neuroscience and it actually works! Add a safe person, place or animal that comforts you.
Perspective matters – this will end.
Interconnectedness – We are all experiencing this collectively. You are not alone. The virus does not discriminate it’s a great equalizer even though we aren’t equally effected (it hits marginalized communities hardest).
Know what you can and cannot control – We cannot predict what will happen. We can control what we focus on, what information and how much information we are consuming.
Our global actions can have a global impact.
World Health Organization
RAIN by Tara Brock
Recognize what is happening;
Allow the experience to be there, just as it is;
Investigate with interest and care;
Nurture with self-compassion.
APPLE
Acknowledge the thought that comes to mind.
Pause your reaction and breathe.
Pull back and understand that thoughts are not always your own.
Let go of the thought or feeling.
Explore the present moment.
Stop. Touch. Go.
Resources and Links to recent articles:
Trusted resources
TU64: Mindfulness Meditation with Yoga Therapist Kelly Inselman
TU63: Living with Cancer – The Six Principles of Emotional Healing with Guest Kelly Inselmann
TU52: Using Mindfulness, Movement and Yoga to Manage Arousal, with Guest Kelly Inselmann
Our course on Attachment and Neuroscience has been recently released and is now available! And, since you are deep into these show notes then you are one of us, so get 10% off by putting in code OURCLAN. 🙂
While this course is utilized heavily by clinicians (CE’s available!), all who are interested in deepening security in yourselves and your relationships are welcome to participate.
It is a full 4 hours of curated content!
CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFORMATION
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BOOK of the MONTH – get it for free right here
For the Love of Men A New Vision for Mindful Masculinity by Liz Plank
A preview of our next episode – an excellent discussion of gender that’s appealing to everyone!


