Copywriters Podcast

Our guest today, Jason Strachan, went through a powerful turnaround over 10 years ago. He was deeply in debt, not doing especially well as a copywriter. He heard about Gary Bencivenga’s famous “Bencivenga 100” seminar in New York, but there was no way he could pull the money together to attend. However, when Gary offered the seminar on DVD, Jason moved heaven and earth, and might have missed a couple meals, to come up with the money to buy the recordings. And what he learned changed his life. Jason says, “I’ve always had this uncanny gift for assimilating new information when it interested me.” He put what he learned to work and his copy generated tens of millions for clients around the world. Fast forward to today. Jason has boiled down what he has learned over time into a formula made up of only 10 words, and written a book about it. I’ve reviewed the book, called The Magic Word Method.What I like about it is, any one of these words can be used, both as copy and as a strategic idea, to refresh and turbocharge just about any copy you’d like to perform better. The words are not unusual or unfamiliar. You’ve heard them before. But the way Jason looks at them is unique, in my experience. That’s why I invited him to come on the show and share his viewpoint and some tips from his book. Jason told us about the steps along his path from struggling, in-debt newbie to successful, world-class copywriter -- and how he came up with the 10 Magic Words concept. We went through three of the words from several angles: How it was used in a winning headline, why this particular word is so powerful, and some of Jason’s own experiences with how to get the most from this word both in copy and, as used strategically to boost response. And, he told us about his new book, The Magic Word Method. He has a very tempting offer with lots of bonuses. To get Jason’s book, go to: www.10magicwords.com/book If you’d like to reach out to Jason personally, here’s his email: Advertisingalchemy at gmail dot com. Download.

Our guest today has a unique vantage point in copywriting. As an executive at Boardroom for 34 years, Brian Kurtz worked with many of the most successful and famous copywriters of our time, including Gene Schwartz, Gary Bencivenga, and many others. As the guy in charge, Brian was responsible for selling well over one billion dollars’ worth of products, “$39 at a time,” to millions of people. Seven years ago, Brian started a second career writing books and running mastermind groups. As well as republishing old direct marketing classics. I’ve wanted to have Brian on the show for a long time, and I was thrilled when he agreed to talk about the copywriting legends he has worked with. If you’ve ever wondered what the people at the top of this game were and are like, today’s your lucky day. Brian’s here to tell you. Brian started out by zeroing-in on what the greats of yesteryear (and some of the superstars he worked with are very active today) do differently from other copywriters. We can all suppose, imagine, or try to find hints from stories and their work. But Brian worked closely with these writers to create winners. After some sharp insights about what makes the champions a different breed, Brian and I spent a lot of our time talking about the man who just might be everyone’s favorite Old Master, Gene Schwartz. We went way beyond Gene’s two famous books as Brian shared some stunning stories about working with Gene, and his life outside of writing copy. Brian has a number of offers, including a special one (number 3) for Copywriters Podcast listeners only: 1) Opt in to Brian’s weekly blog at briankurtz.net (and there is lots of free content at that link as well) 2) Go to OverdeliverBook.com to buy his book. You’ll get instructions on how to buy it on Amazon, and send him the receipt to get the bonuses. Less than $20 for the book, and the bonuses are incredible. 3) My favorite: Special offer on Breakthrough Advertising / The Brilliance Breakthrough: Both books together for $300 -- a $35 saving. And free shipping If you’re outside of the US, Brian will take half off of expedited shipping. So, $300 for both books, $330 for outside the US. We haven’t set up a link for this special offer. It’s good for up to one week after the podcast. You have to email Brian: brian at briankurtz dot net for this special offer, and be sure to put “Friend of David” in the subject line. Download.

Nathan Fraser, author of Sales Funnel Cheat Codes, shares strategies and tactics for effective sales funnels. Topics covered in the podcast include worst and best-performing funnels, the art of buying customers through advertising, running ads on how-to and product comparison articles, tips for advertising to customers in different levels of awareness, and more. Check out the book for detailed insights.

OK, we’re back with part 2 of deep headline wisdom from Old Master John Caples and his book “Tested Advertising Methods,” originally published in 1932. Last week we covered the first half of his chapter called “Twenty-nine formulas for writing headlines,” and like I said last week, this chapter is pure gold and no fat. This week we cover the second half. There was simply too much in one chapter to cover it all in one show. Now these formulas are simple, and in most cases you have to do the heavy lifting. They are formulas, but not templates. He shows you where to start, which is always half the battle when you’re writing anything. So today we’re going to cover the second half of Chapter 5 in Caples’s landmark book, “Tested Advertising Methods,” 4th edition. Two groups of headline formulas in the second half of the chapter that, for me, are more fun and more interesting than the ones we covered last week. Don’t get me wrong. The ones we covered last week, which I summarized just a moment ago, are very powerful and very effective. I just don’t think most of them offer as many creative possibilities, that will still get results, as the ones we’re going to cover today. And to be sure, your headline does not need to be quote-unquote creative. It just needs to be fresh and interesting enough to work. But, after all, if you can have a little more fun coming up with it—no harm in that! To emphasize how important headlines are and what a tightrope you’re walking with them, let’s start with these powerful fourth paragraphs from the Chapter 3 “Right and Wrong Methods of Writing Headlines” in “Tested Advertising Methods”: Remember that the reader’s attention is yours for only a single, involuntary instant. He will not use up his valuable time trying to figure out what you mean. He will simply turn the page. Do not run advertisements without headlines. Some advertisers do this in the mistaken notion that it is smart, modern, and sophisticated. Because they do not test their advertising, these advertisers do not realize that about the only person who reads their copy is the proofreader, who is paid to read it. --- And this is something you should commit to memory, what he says next: -- You can’t expect people to read your message unless you first give them in the headline a powerful reason for reading it. To run an advertisement without a headline is like opening a store without hanging out a sign to tell people what kind of store it is. A few customers may come in the store, but many prospective customers will be lost. If there is any exception to this rule, it is where an excellent picture of the product is used. For example, a beautiful, four color picture of delicious peaches with the name Del Monte at the bottom of the page conveys a message without a headline. Here are the 15 formulas we cover today: 1. How to 2. How 3. Why 4. Which 5. Who Else 6. This 7. Wanted 8. Advice 9. Use a testimonial-style headline 10. Offer the reader a test 11. Use a one-word headline 12. Use a two-word headline 13. Warn the reader to delay buying. 14. Let the advertiser speak directly to the reader 15. Address your headline to a specific group or customer Download.

Today we go deep into the headline wisdom of Old Master John Caples and his book “Tested Advertising Methods,” originally published in 1932. What’s so important about this book for today’s show is, it contains a chapter called “Twenty-Nine Formulas For Writing Headlines,” and this chapter is pure gold, no fat. It’s hard to appreciate the immense value of what he says in this chapter. I had to go through it several times to make it into podcast material. It’s clear and simple, but it’s dense. In fact, there’s so much there that I couldn’t fit it into one podcast. We’d have to cover one formula a minute. Going that fast would make it incredibly hard to develop useful ideas. It would all go by in a blur. So today is Part 1. We’ll cover 14 formulas. And we’ll cover the other 15 next week. By the way, don’t get intimidated by the word “formulas.” While Caples is accurate in describing them that way, they’re MUCH easier to use and understand than you might imagine. Now the headline formulas are in the last of four chapters about headlines. And it really makes sense to devote that much space in a book to the subject. Because headlines are BY FAR the most important part of your ad, and account for as much as 80% of how effective it is. To put the formulas in context, let’s quickly talk about the key points in the three chapters that lead up to the fourth chapter. You could go horribly wrong if you didn’t follow the guidance he has in those three chapters. The main thing he says is that headlines need to speak to the self-interest of the reader. Sounds simple enough, but so many headlines fail this simple test. Because… what is self-interest? In advertising, self-interest is what your prospect already wants or doesn’t want. Either something they want to move toward, or something they want to move away from. We’ll have a number of concrete examples of this as we move forward. The most important thing for now to get is: you may think something your prospect should want, or needs to figure out is self interest—but it’s not. Self-interest needs to be basically primal. Direct. Immediately recognizable. Primal things people want to move towards are things like: Money, health, popularity, prestige, pride. And primal things people want to move away from are things like: Threats, disrespect, loss of freedom, illness, pain. Stuff like that. Remember, copywriting is about what people instantly respond to, not what you think they should respond to. And all of this applies to headlines, especially. Keep in mind what I just said as we go through the formulas and the examples. Curiosity, which definitely attracts attention, does not usually set the frame for the copy by itself the way a good headline needs to do. However, curiosity combined with self-interest can work wonders. Again, more about this in a minute. And two other ingredients that work incredibly well when combined with self-interest are: - Quick and easy - News. Here are the short-form formulas, which we cover in depth on today’s show. 1. Announcing 2. Announcement Quality 3. New 4. Now 5. At Last 6. Put a date in your headline 7. Write like a news headline 8. Feature the price in your headline 9. Feature reduced price 10. Feature special merchandising offer 11. Feature and easy payment plan 12. Feature a free offer 13. Offer information of value 14. Tell a story and next week, we’ll cover the other 15. Download.

Our Old Master today begins a chapter of one of his books with this question: How do you cope when readers do not believe what you have written? And, he answers it: You plug the gaps where belief leaks out. Sounds like a great plan, but it leads to two more questions: 1. What are those gaps? and 2. How do you plug them? Now what’s especially interesting about this Old Master is that he’s not a copywriter. But he is a very successful writer and, for my money, the best teacher of how to write fiction you can find anywhere. And, even more interesting -- the gaps where belief leaks out for fiction writers are largely the same ones that cause problems for copywriters. And so are the fixes. I’ve tweaked his ideas ever so slightly to make them a perfect fit for copywriters. Our Old Master was named Dwight Swain. We talked about five mistakes Dwight Swain identified in the chapter “The Dynamics of Disbelief” from his book “Creating Characters: How to Build Story People.” His main point in the chapter is, when you’ve done everything else right, if your editor doesn’t believe the story could have actually happened, then the editor knows readers won’t either, and therefore the editor won’t buy your story. Good stories are believable, even though, if they are fiction, they never really happened. There’s a phrase, “the suspension of disbelief,” that describes the enjoyable experience we have when we’re watching something on the screen that we know is not actually true, but it’s done well enough so we can pretend that it is. In copy, the same thing applies, with a twist. We’re not telling a story strictly for entertainment, at least not in direct response copywriting done right. We’re making a claim and we want to make it believable enough so that people take the action we ask them to take. At least some of them. Dwight Swain was one heck of a writer. Pulp fiction, magazine articles, screenplays, novels, and lots of other things besides some great books to help other writers. Here’s a recap of the five mistakes we covered in detail on the show. Though you may already be familiar with the terms, in Swain’s view of the world, they have very specific meanings I haven’t heard about much elsewhere: Mistake #1: You fall out of viewpoint Mistake #2: You fail to do enough research Mistake #3: You’re telling, rather than showing Mistake #4: Gaps between motivation and reaction Mistake #5: Not “planting” Dwight Swain’s book: Creating Characters-How to Build Story People https://www.amazon.com/Creating-Characters-Build-Story-People-ebook/dp/B00AHYAVBC Download.

Our guest today, Kyle Jordan, has a website where he breaks down online ad sequences. The series of breakdowns is called “Full Funnel Nudity.” We’ll get to that soon enough, but first, about Kyle: His first client five years ago was a technical marketing course company called Data Driven Marketing. As a copywriter and marketing strategist, Kyle increased the traffic to their website by about 400%; doubled the size of their email list in one year; and helped them come up with six new products. But most important, with this first client, Kyle learned the technical side of online marketing from a copywriter’s point of view, in a way that few others have. This know-how led to his specialty, which he calls Funnel Renovations. He has helped multiple clients rehab their funnels and double their sales, just by fixing the funnel alone. He’s also written for famous professional athletes and influencers -- always with the goal of growing the sales of the business. Kyle shared some tips with us today from in-the-trenches about getting your funnels to perform better. He started by telling us about his most unusual motivation for becoming a copywriter and why it was so important for him to succeed in the field. From there, he shared a number of profitable tips: • The #1 mistake that kills a funnel’s conversion rate • Why if you’re not trying to get the last word in, you’re leaving money on the table • The single biggest reason eCommerce brands should hire a copywriter • A stupid simple way to increase your average order value by as much as 30% • Why you should disgust everyone who passes through your funnel He also told us about a great hack for increasing email open rates and engagement that gives you real-time market research results, and takes it to a new level. Finally, you’ve got a website is called “Full Funnel Disclosure” and on it is his collection of breakdowns called “Full Funnel Nudity”: https://fullfunneldisclosure.com His email address: kyle at fullfunneldisclosure dot com Download.

A lot of copywriters would like to know how to get into financial copywriting, and our special guest today, Rob Braddock, is just the copywriter to tell you. He started his financial copywriting career about five years ago at Agora Financial, where he did well. Rob left Agora to work at WealthPress. Working with a high-powered team, he wrote copy that resulted in millions of dollars of additional sales. All told, Rob counts about $60 million in sales in his career so far. Not too shabby. He’s gone off on his own and has been a freelancer since last December. Rob agreed to come on today to help people who want to get into financial copywriting understand how he did it, and give them some ideas on how they could get started. Rob’s a Marine Corps veteran and had personal experience doing face-to-face sales before he ever wrote a sales letter… a couple things to keep in mind about what has made him so successful. One thing I especially appreciate about Rob is how he gets straight to the point without getting too deadly serious about it. I predict you’ll have a lot of fun listening to us today. Some of the points we covered: Rob tells us what he think is the most important thing about financial copywriting that most people don’t know, but need to know — and how he found out about that most important thing. The best way for someone new to get their foot in the door in financial copywriting. Steps a copywriter should take to become someone who writes financial promos that sell $1 million or more. The biggest misconceptions people have about financial copywriting. What Rob wishes he knew when he first started financial copywriting? The next step for someone who wants to get into financial copywriting should take. You can contact Rob at his website: RiseAndMind dot com. Download.

Our guest today is Million-Dollar Mike Morgan, who has broken sales record after sales record with his sales letters and VSLs. Mike is now copy chief for Money Map Press, a major direct mail publisher. He’s also a still-very-active copywriter. He doesn’t have time for many podcast interviews, so we’re especially grateful that he could join us today. Here’s why he’s here: Let’s say you’ve just written a great sales letter for a product launch. Well, guess what? Your work is NOT done yet. You still need emails — lots of them. To your list. To your new customers, after they buy. And for affiliates to mail out for you. Plus, you ALSO need ads and advertorials. To get prospects to your page. Oh, and don’t forget. All these things have to be done FAST. Well… Mike has just the solution to your problem. And I’ve got to say, it’s pretty cool. On the show, Mike told us how he did a lot of these things intuitively, but had to develop a system for a new group of copywriters getting started at Money Map Press. He basically needed to open the lock to the treasure chest in his unconscious mind, and share what was already there. What he discovered is that, for the “ads for the ad” (emails, advertorials, Facebook and Google ads, etc.), 90% of the work had already been done, in the writing of the main sales piece. Knowing what to look for, and what to do with it once you found it, was one of the main unique value points of Mike’s system. He also explained why speed takes care of so many problems. Going for perfection right out of the gate slows you down and doesn’t get you perfection in any case. But speed blazes a trail that can lead to perfection, if you navigate it right. Mike gives you some great hints on how to do that. You’ll get a lot from this show, even if you only write sales letters. Because of a lot of the ideas and methods Mike discloses are just as valuable for getting started on a big project. Download.

If you run ads for your business, here’s a tantalizing question for you: How would you like to increase your response by 30%, without writing any new copy? How about 300%? Impossible, you say? Don’t say that to our special guest today, Katie Switzer. Because once she explains a few things, she is going to give you real-world examples where these kind of increases have actually occurred. Katie started out as a mechanical engineer. She learned marketing when she started her own online business for other parents -- she has four children herself. Soon she was taking on marketing clients. Her main focus was improving conversions based on market research and data-driven copywriting Katie has also worked as a marketing manager for a marketing analytics software company. These days, she’s helping business owners collect and understand their marketing data — and use what they find to improve their results. I’ve got to admit, I was pretty excited to hear what she has to say. Here’s what we asked her: 1. At the most basic level, what are analytics and how does a marketer use them? 2. Could you tell us about the biggest mistakes people typical make when they try to use analytics? 3. Let’s say you have a small list or you’re running a small campaign. Can you use analytics profitably without buying expensive software? 4. How has Facebook made meaningful tracking more difficult, and what are the limitations, especially these days, on using Facebook Business Manager, to get good analytics? 5. Now let’s get into the advanced stuff — attribution software and multi-touch models. Could you tell us about those? 6. What are “the most valued customers”… why do they make up the key metric… and how do you find them? 7. What are some of the big wins you have seen people get with analytics? You can reach Katie by email: katie at engineeredmarketing dot io Download.