Copywriters Podcast

The ‘R’ word is popping up a lot these days. That word is “recession,” and there’s a good reason everyone’s talking about it. Prices are going crazy. It seems like everything’s doubled in the last few months. If unemployment weren’t so low, it would be a slam-dunk and everyone would say we’re in a recession. This is important for copywriters and entrepreneurs, because there are specific strategies you can use to stay afloat and even grow your business in a recession. We’ll talk about them today. Are you skeptical that anything could work in a recession? A Forbes magazine article says that seven billion-dollar family fortunes trace back to getting started during the Great Depression. So it’s possible to do well when the economy’s in the tank. Now some experts I’ve seen on TV say we’re not in a recession yet. A really bright guy on the left says we’re pretty close, and just as bright a guy on the right says there’s a very good chance we’ll go into a recession soon. I don’t agree with either of them. I think we’re not going into a recession, at least until after the elections in November. I think the politicians who have most to gain from no recession will make sure we stall it until they get reelected. But I’ve been wrong about the economy before. So even against my own predictions, I think it’s a good idea to know what to do now so when things start to look really bleak, you’ll have a plan you can go to. Because sooner or later there’s going to be one. That’s not just me talking. That’s history talking. We’ve had five major recessions since I’ve had a job or a business, and eventually we’re headed for another one. The best news of all is, the ideas we’ll talk about today will work great even when we’re not in a recession — and work even better once we are. So let’s start by figuring out what a recession is. It’s a scary word, and it’s easy to think it means the economy has rolled to a dead stop. Or has collapsed completely. Game over. Economic Armageddon. And that’s very dramatic, but in truth, that’s not what a recession is. A recession is when the economy slows down. Keep that in mind as we go through this. Yes, there are problems. There are even some human tragedies. Sometimes a lot of them. But that doesn’t mean the economy has up and left and gone to another planet. No. It has slowed down. Another thing to remember: A recession doesn’t affect everyone the same way. Let’s say there’s a business where 10 employees there are your customers. Five of them get laid off. The other five stay on at the same salary they had before people started getting laid off. The five people who got laid off are a lot less likely to buy from you, in most cases, than the five who still get paychecks on a regular basis. One customer groups has suddenly become two very different ones. So even people in the same neighborhood are not all the same, when it comes to what kind of customer they’d be in a recession. And there’s another thing before we get into what to do (and what not to do) in a recession. What’s going on in the economy and specifically in your target market is very important. You need to pay attention and keep tabs on it. But there’s something that’s far more important, and that’s your mindset. Now if you’re skeptical about mindset, I understand. There’s a huge industry developed that says if you’re just like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, and you tap your red shoes together and repeat a magic phrase over and over, that is simply all you have to do and you will live a rich and satisfying life. I never got the red shoes myself, but from what I’ve observed and experienced, it doesn’t exactly work that way. A positive mental attitude is definitely important, but it’s hardly enough. The mindset I’m talking about is much more real-world. First of all, it’s a perspective. A way you look at things. Expecting that you’ll be successful but knowing it’s not always easy and you may have to try more than one path to get a result you’re looking for. But it’s more than that. The mindset I’m talking about involves your hands, your mouth, and your ears. Your hands - What you do. Your mouth - What you say. Your ears - How you listen. It’s what you focus on. And where you don’t obsess, too. It has to do with you how you use your mind to run your day throughout the week. A bias in favor of action and replacing perfectionism with repeated efforts and adjustments, especially if something doesn’t work the first time. That’s at least as important as any marketing or copywriting moves you make during a recession. Besides that, on today’s show, we dig into: • What NOT to do when a recession hits • What to do MORE of, and • 3 proven Recession-Fighting Strategies you can use right away, whether we’re in a recession or not! (They increase income either way.) • And 4 overall principles to get the most from your business during a downturn. Download.

Guest: Clyde Bedell, highly successful advertiser and prominent teacher. In this episode, the hosts delve into Clyde Bedell's influential book on copywriting and discuss the 7 keys to believability in advertising. They emphasize the importance of convincing prospects that the product is valuable through repetition, testimonials, guarantees, and more. They also explore the impact of testimonials, including photos and full names, in enhancing credibility. Additionally, they discuss building believability through assurances, proof, and customer reviews, and introduce a sponsor and a $10 Kindle book on copywriting.

A big question, maybe THE big question, copywriters ask themselves when they sit down to write, is this: “Where do I start?” Of course you’ve got to already know... your product and its benefits. You’ll need to put together the best offer possible. You may need an origin story for the product. Knowing the price and guarantee are important. But this is all for naught if you don’t have a deep and thorough understanding of your PROSPECT. Because if you’re selling to the wrong person -- or to nobody in particular -- your copy is not very likely to work. I came across eight killer questions -- not for copywriting, but for writing screenplays. From the excellent new book, “The Protagonist’s Journey,” by successful screenwriter and college professor Scott Myers. These questions on his list are for getting to know the hero of the film you are planning to write. Today, though, we’ll look at how we can tweak these questions just a little to create a very powerful tool for anyone who writes copy. Just like with a screenplay, a copy project can seem completely out of control when you start, too. So, in the same way, the same questions, converted for copywriting, will help you get to know your prospect very specifically and in important ways. Three reasons these questions are so valuable: 1. They get you out of your client’s head and into your prospect’s head, where the sale is actually made. (or, if you’re writing for yourself, out of your own head and into the prospect’s head) 2. These questions force you to zero-in on important parts of your copy which are easy to overlook — but, because it’s so easy to overlook them, a lot of people do. Now you don’t have to. 3. These questions unearth and explore the many facets of emotional motivation in your prospect — the secret ingredient missing from so many sales letters, and the one thing that propels conversions into the stratosphere. I’m going to give you a couple different ways to use these questions. A long way, and a short way. The long way is to go through the questions methodically and write out the answers. And research, or think deeply about, the questions you can’t already answer. That’s not going to work for everyone, all of the time. So there’s a much faster way you can still benefit from these questions. And that’s this: Use the questions as a quick checklist, before you write. To make sure you have the questions answered in your own mind or in your prework. And fill in quickly wherever you come up short. Here are the questions, which we discuss in some detail on the podcast: 1. Who is the prospect? 2. What does the prospect want? 3. What does the prospect need? 4. What is the eventual resolution of the prospect’s want and need? 5. What is at stake for the prospect? 6. Who or what opposes the prospect? 7. What does the prospect fear the most? 8. Why does this prospect need to have this product at this time? The book is: The Protagonist’s Journey, by Scott Myers https://www.amazon.com/dp/3030796817 Download.

Dr. Harlan Kilstein, a renowned copywriter and entrepreneur, returns to share his innovative take on Interactive Sales Letters. He delves into how this method, rooted in proven techniques from giants like Publishers Clearing House, is transforming marketing today. Listeners learn the significance of consumer engagement and personalization in driving sales. Harlan also shares insights on utilizing feedback and active participation to elevate customer experiences, stressing the power of effective questioning in connecting with audiences.

If you wanted to find out how to make your Facebook ads start working again, who would you turn to? Well, we’ve found someone I think you’ll like. His name is Depesh Mandalia. Besides being a successful online agency owner, with over $100 million in sales for clients to his credit, he is also a gifted speaker, coach and teacher. Depesh left the corporate world when his job kind of evaporated during the 2009 financial meltdown. But he landed on his feet and within 36 months he had his first seven-figure year, at first as an affiliate marketer. He began training entrepreneurs and other marketers in 2018, with something he calls the BPM method. Today he’s going to tell you about it and why it’s very profitable with Facebook in the current environment, even after Apple has clamped down on the data available to marketers. The title of this episode is “Why Nobody Can Make Facebook Ads Work Anymore.” Obviously our guest and his students still can, and what Depesh had to tell us was great. I started out by drawing one distinction right away: What’s important is both copywriting, and strategy. Now the best copywriting has a strategy behind it. A lot of people write ads and copy, the “what,” without getting enough into the “why.” Depesh has a neat list of five questions that include three “why’s,” and we’ll talk about that in the show today. But the unavoidable truth is, you have to think a little harder these days if you want to make things work. With that, here’s what I asked him: 1. Depesh, you say that copywriting is your “secret weapon.” I wouldn’t say that’s true of every Facebook advertiser, but I’m glad to hear it from you! What do you mean by that? 2. So, in the big picture, how has Facebook advertising recently become harder to make work? 3. Could you review what Apple’s privacy moves have done to Facebook advertisers, and how we need to adapt as a result? 4. I love what you say about the evolution of technology -- fast -- versus the evolution of the human mind -- much slower. Let’s talk about how the teachings of the old masters and how they apply to Facebook advertising. 5. Could you talk about the four things you focus on to build the perfect ad campaign? 6. One thing that’s really helpful is a simplified way to get started on strategic thinking, and you’ve come up with a . Could you walk us through your Five Ws? (Here are Depesh’s Five W’s.) A: PLAN 1. WHO are we speaking to? 2. WHAT is the transformation you are offering? B: ATTACK 3. WHY (emotional) - state shifts 4. WHY (rational) - benefits C: WHY not? (Barriers, Objections) 7. Could you tell us about your 7-Figure Facebook Ads Course? Depesh’s 7-Figure Course: https://garfinkelcoaching.com/depeshDownload.

I’ve been aware that there’s something out there called “TikTok,” but I didn’t pay much attention to it, other than the occasional TikTok video reposed somewhere else. The reason I didn’t pay much attention was I thought it didn’t have much to do with business, and it didn’t have anything to do with advertising. Ummm… I was wrong. TikTok had almost $5 billion in revenue last year, and it had over a billion users. Not only that. 11% of them were over 50 years of age -- old folks, like me. Then I learned about today’s guest, Emmanuelle Daigle. Emmanuelle is a marketing agency owner and the founder of TokTrend, a community that keeps business owners up to date on TikTok and Instagram reels trends. As an early user of the TikTok platform, Emmanuelle has a deep understanding of its users preferences and how to create ads that convert (because spoiler alert, your Facebook ads won't cut it there). Emmanuelle told us about TikTok from way back when, and how she has seen it evolve from its early days. She explained two really important points for anyone planning to advertise on the platform: • How TikTok is similar to Facebook, and • How TikTok is very different from Facebook. This matters a lot, because what’s considered a good ad on Facebook is likely to be considered stodgy and out-of-place on TikTok. Now, with all that revenue ($5 billion last year), some companies must be spending a lot on TikTok advertising. Emmanuelle shared how some consumer brands have sold out on their offers with TikTok ads. Interestingly, organic content -- non-advertising that you post for free -- can also generate a lot of interest and business, because TikTok’s algorithm is fundamentally different than most other platforms. Facebook and the like have social algorithms -- based on your connections. TikTok tracks your interest and adapts much more closely than other platforms do, according to Emmanuelle. Therefore, if you hit the right theme, you have a much better chance of going viral on Tiktok. Emmanuelle also share some tips for creating your own TikTok content and advertising. https://toktrend.io/ Download.

One of my Facebook friends asked a question in a copywriting group about whether there are more kinds of proof than what most people think of – namely, logic and testimonials. This got me to thinking. I realized there are other kinds. These other kinds of proof are just not that obvious to everyone. In fact, the less obvious they are, the more they fly under the radar, and... the more powerful they are likely to be. Proof is one of the most under-used parts of copy, but it’s one of the most important. Why? Because it’s going to be really hard to get people to believe you without enough convincing proof elements. And no belief = no sales. So you definitely need all the proof you can get. I’ve identified four kinds of proof the best copywriters are already using all the time, but most people don’t fully understand or even know about at all. At least some of them. And we’ll go over all four today. So we’re took a deep look at four kinds of proof. Believe me, there was some overlap between the categories. Still, each kind is basically different enough to deserve a category of its own. So yes, sometimes you could come up with a piece of proof that could definitely fit in more than one category, depending on how you look at it. That doesn’t matter, though. The important thing here to understand is that you need to use as much proof as you can get. Remember, maybe you’re sold on your product, but your prospect probably isn’t. Just because someone knows you, likes you and trusts you doesn’t necessarily mean they will buy from you. Because, unless they have had experience already using a very similar product from you in the past, the chances are really good that they have their doubts and you can’t count on them to believe you completely about any particular product, just because you say so. If you’re not already big on proof, you’re probably not getting nearly the sales you could be getting. And if you are big on proof, then you need to listen closely to find out what you’re not already doing that you should be doing from now on.Download.

When you’re all but done with your copy -- especially long-form copy, like a sales letter or a VSL script -- you’ve got to take one final pass to make sure everything is right. Of course you’re looking for the numbers to add up and the words to be spelled right -- you know, if you’re into “spelling,” that is. But there are bigger-picture copy edits to do. I haven’t heard much about them from other people, but our guest today, the Copywriters Podcast’s own Nathan Fraser, has a list that is going to knock your socks off. I mean it. This is good stuff. Top pro’s know this and use this, but Nathan’s the first person to write it down and organize it, all in one place. Best of all, it’s an addition to his already very useful and extremely reasonable book, “Sales Page Cheat Codes.” Nathan told us about three simple copy-editing cheat codes that can boost the conversion power of your copy in a big way. The first one is a form of big-picture editing: Looking at two goals (your own, and your reader’s) and pretty much ruthlessly editing out anything that doesn’t move the copy in those two intertwined directions. Sounds simple and self-evident. But there are lots of snaggles and pitfalls that can get in the way if you’re not careful. Nathan explains what the biggest ones are, and how to steer clear of them. The second cheat code is also deceptively simple. It’s to acknowledge and deal with your prospect’s objections. And these are beyond the well-known ones like, the price is too high, or, what happens if I don’t like the product? Nathan gets into the psychology of the prospects as they read your letter or watch your video. He pinpoints three areas of doubt that can kill a sale… or lead to a boatload of extra sales if they’re handled well. He tells you how to handle them the right way. Finally, all work and no fun makes Jack a dull copywriter. My words, not Nathan’s! But his third area of editing sales copy has to do with making sure your copy is fun and easy to read! Nathan has four key tests that are easy to do that fit into this part of his list. I love how he starts the first one: “Forget everything you learned in high school English class. Your English teacher was wrong about almost everything.” Then he gets down to specifics about the RIGHT way to make your copy fun and very readable. By the way, you can get all of these cheat codes, plus a whole lot more, in the latest edition of Nathan’s new book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09VRRL75Z Download.

As copywriters, we draw inspiration and know-how from all kinds of sources: professional salespeople… music… the sports world… fiction… even, the movies! But I have to admit, our guest today is the first copywriter I’ve ever heard of who draws her approach from The Simpsons! Yes, those Simpsons. Marge, Lisa, Bart and of course, the most unforgettable one, Homer. Copywriter Sage Polaris has come up with an ingenious system for seeing the Simpsons as personality archetypes — and using that viewpoint to reach more buyers in every promotion. Apparently it really works, too. Today she’ll tell us how she used this system to write copy for a $1.25 million launch. Overall, Sage has written copy for more than 400 clients, with millions more in sales results. Now, getting your copy to that level of performance is rare enough in and of itself. But bringing it into the frame of everyone’s favorite cartoon dysfunctional family is unique, it seems to me. Here’s what Sage told us about on the show: • The four personality types of Bart, Homer, Marge, and Lisa – and what triggers their buying decisions • How to put these high sales conversion methods into practice, particularly regarding overall placement of testimonials, when branded photos and selfies are most effective, how music lyrics and puns can be used to close sales, and more. • How she used this exact method to earn her client $1.25 million in a single launch • How to discern when to write to just one or a couple of the buyer types • How these high conversion methods can help you connect beyond paid traffic and apply to organic traffic as well (Sage loves using this to build her audience in Facebook Groups) Sage is offering a free report, “3x Email Open Rates in 3 Steps.” Go to: https://sagepolaris.com/davidrocks Download.

About 30 years ago, I saw my first Gary Halbert newsletter. It was printed, on paper. I was blown away. I didn’t know what I was reading. But I couldn’t stop reading it. In fact, I must have read it 20 times. I had been writing professionally myself for almost 20 years. But I knew I didn’t know how to write like Gary was writing. And for a good long while, I couldn’t figure out what he was doing. Now, I know. What Gary did, the way he wrote, was unique and is still beyond my powers of description today. I wouldn’t ever pretend that I could write the way he could – I can’t. Who can? But I did figure out a couple of key things, that launched my copywriting career and led to millions of dollars in sales. The first thing was that he knew how to sell with the written word. Which is something we’ve talked about a lot on this podcast. The second thing was that he wrote in a totally conversational way, at the same time he was selling. And that’s something we’ve never really dug into before today on this podcast. But today we do. Look – It should be the easiest thing in the world, but for most copywriters, it’s one of the hardest things to do. I’m talking about writing like you talk. Or, to use the technical term, “conversational copywriting.” But face it. The more your copy comes across like you talking to your prospect, the less likely your prospects are going to think to themselves, “Oh, this is an ad” — and put up their defenses. The worst thing about this is, as far as I can tell, no one else has thought that this is a skill that can be taught. Most copywriters and copy chiefs grudgingly admit that the better copywriters can do this and the lesser copywriters can’t, but that’s about as far as they go. I think different. I think most people can learn this, but it’s not a matter of wishing it and having it so. It’s a skill. It doesn’t come naturally and it doesn’t just sort of seep into your writing by itself over time. I think it’s a skill you can learn, piece by piece. And I’ve broken it down into pieces and steps to learn it. Today, we’ll look at • Why it’s so hard • Why it’s so important to write in a conversational way • What gets in the way for most people • And four comprehensive action steps you can take to get better at it.Download.