Knowledge Brokers Podcast

Byron Lazine and Tom Toole discuss Zillow and ShowingTime suing MLSs, the biggest scheme in real estate, and predictions for 2024 from all three (Byron, Tom, and Lisa), including the biggest winners and losers in the coming year. Stay tuned next week for a special episode with ResiClub founder Lance Lambert! Become a member of BAMx: https://bamx.uscreen.io/pages/subscribe Use discount code "FROSTY" for 25% off your annual subscription or your first month of membership. Sign up before the sale ends on January 2, 2024 at 11:59 pm ET. Subscribe to Knowledge Brokers Podcast today: https://www.youtube.com/@knowledgebrokerspodcast?sub_confirmation=1 Join the 5AM Call: https://5amcall.com/ Timestamps: 00:00–01:39 Intro 01:39 Zillow & ShowingTime suing MLSs 02:36 “Blood in the Streets” 07:31 The All-in-One Podcast (“You need to break the MLS”) 14:14 The biggest scheme in real estate 18:30 Lance Lambert will be on KBP next week! 27:16 Reactions to HousingWire: “The housing market didn’t break but it bent this year.” 32:39 Predictions for 2024 (for fun) 34:06 Prediction #1: The biggest winners (company & individual) of 2024 43:59 Prediction #2: The biggest losers of 2024 ——— Connect with Byron Lazine: https://www.instagram.com/byronlazine Connect with Tom Toole: https://www.instagram.com/tomtoole3rd/ Connect with Lisa Chinatti: https://www.instagram.com/lisachinatti/ ——— BAM delivers real estate news, education, and entertainment with nonstop original content from an unmatchable line-up of industry personalities and top producers. Subscribe to BAM YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/aatxhaka. Subscribe to BAM Newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/nowbam/the-best-newsletter-in-real-estate Check out BAM: https://nowbam.com/ ——— BAM PARTNERS 𝐕𝐮𝐥𝐜𝐚𝐧𝟕: The most accurate, powerful, and effective real estate seller lead generation resource to build your business. GET STARTED TODAY → https://www.vulcan7.com/bam/ 𝐕𝐢𝐫𝐭𝐮𝐝𝐞𝐬𝐤: Hire a Virtual Assistant Today! Use code BAM200 for $250 OFF the signup fee → https://myvirtudesk.com/contact?promocode=BAM200 ——— #housingmarket #2024predictions #Zillow

In this Knowledge Brokers Podcast episode, Tom Toole and Lisa Chinatti explore current real estate trends, the impact of the Fed's recent announcement, housing market predictions, and strategies for agents. A must-listen for insights into navigating the changing real estate landscape. kvCORE and BoomTown are delivering the innovative solutions, and the support you need to power your business and scale your success: https://boomtownroi.com/knowledgebrokers Subscribe to Knowledge Brokers Podcast today: https://www.youtube.com/@knowledgebrokerspodcast?sub_confirmation=1 Join the 5AM Call: https://5amcall.com/ RESOURCES: TIMESTAMPS: 00:00--01:22 Welcome and Introduction 01:22 The Fed announcement of rate cuts in 2024—and the market’s response 04:47:32 - Deep Dive into Current Market Conditions 14:22:58 - Discussing Federal Reserve's Impact 23:55:43 - Future Trends in Housing Market 32:39:06 - Strategies for Real Estate Professionals ——— Connect with Byron Lazine: https://www.instagram.com/byronlazine Connect with Tom Toole: https://www.instagram.com/tomtoole3rd/ Connect with Lisa Chinatti: https://www.instagram.com/lisachinatti/ ——— BAM delivers real estate news, education, and entertainment with nonstop original content from an unmatchable line-up of industry personalities and top producers. Subscribe to BAM YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/aatxhaka. Subscribe to BAM Newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/nowbam/the-best-newsletter-in-real-estate Check out BAM: https://nowbam.com/ ——— BAM PARTNERS 𝐕𝐮𝐥𝐜𝐚𝐧𝟕: The most accurate, powerful, and effective real estate seller lead generation resource to build your business. GET STARTED TODAY → https://www.vulcan7.com/bam/ 𝐕𝐢𝐫𝐭𝐮𝐝𝐞𝐬𝐤: Hire a Virtual Assistant Today! Use code BAM200 for $250 OFF the signup fee → https://myvirtudesk.com/contact?promocode=BAM200 ——— #mortgagerates #federalreserve #housingmarket

Byron Lazine, Tom Toole, and Lisa Chinatti discuss the return to 6.50% mortgage rate quotes, how asking a single question can lead to unexpected opportunities, the drop in consumer inflation expectations, the DOJ’s attempt to reopen its case against NAR, and a new bill that would ban hedge funds from buying or owning single-family homes. Become a member of BAMx: https://bamx.uscreen.io/pages/subscribe Use discount code KNOWLEDGEBROKERS for 10% off your annual subscription. kvCORE and BoomTown are delivering the innovative solutions, and the support you need to power your business and scale your success: https://boomtownroi.com/knowledgebrokers Subscribe to Knowledge Brokers Podcast today: https://www.youtube.com/@knowledgebrokerspodcast?sub_confirmation=1 Join the 5AM Call: https://5amcall.com/ Resources: https://www.realestatenews.com/2023/12/01/doj-asks-court-of-appeals-to-reopen-case-against-nar https://nowbam.com/new-legislation-proposes-banning-hedge-funds-from-owning-single-family-properties/ https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/08/inflation-expectations-plunge-in-closely-watched-university-of-michigan-survey.html Timestamps: 00:00-00:57 Intro 00:58 6.5% mortgage rate quotes 04:56 Chart: “30 Year Mortgage Payment Comparison” (Mortgage America) 09:06 Two stories that show how one question can lead to unexpected opportunities 12:53 In Jan 2024, will we see something similar to Jan 2022’s uptick in transactions? 22:08 Consumer inflation expectations plunge (CNBC) 24:44 Job report 26:16 There will be opportunities in 2024 (be ready for them) 34:20 DOJ reopening case against NAR 41:30 New legislation would ban hedge funds from owning & buying single-family homes ——— Connect with Byron Lazine: https://www.instagram.com/byronlazine Connect with Tom Toole: https://www.instagram.com/tomtoole3rd/ Connect with Lisa Chinatti: https://www.instagram.com/lisachinatti/ ——— BAM delivers real estate news, education, and entertainment with nonstop original content from an unmatchable line-up of industry personalities and top producers. Subscribe to BAM YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/aatxhaka. Subscribe to BAM Newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/nowbam/the-best-newsletter-in-real-estate Check out BAM: https://nowbam.com/ ——— BAM PARTNERS 𝐕𝐮𝐥𝐜𝐚𝐧𝟕: The most accurate, powerful, and effective real estate seller lead generation resource to build your business. GET STARTED TODAY → https://www.vulcan7.com/bam/ 𝐕𝐢𝐫𝐭𝐮𝐝𝐞𝐬𝐤: Hire a Virtual Assistant Today! Use code BAM200 for $250 OFF the signup fee → https://myvirtudesk.com/contact?promocode=BAM200 ——— #mortgagerates #housingaffordability #

Byron Lazine, Lisa Chinatti, and Tom Toole discuss the drop in mortgage rates, leveraging rate drops and stability to switch up your scripts, mortgage rate and home price predictions for 2024, and future-pacing with your clients at listing appointments. Become a member of BAMx: https://bamx.uscreen.io/pages/subscribe Use discount code KNOWLEDGEBROKERS for 10% off your annual subscription. kvCORE and BoomTown are delivering the innovative solutions, and the support you need to power your business and scale your success: https://boomtownroi.com/knowledgebrokers Subscribe to Knowledge Brokers Podcast today: https://www.youtube.com/@knowledgebrokerspodcast?sub_confirmation=1 Join the 5AM Call: https://5amcall.com/ Resources: https://www.fhfa.gov/DataTools/Tools/Pages/Conforming-Loan-Limit-Map.aspx https://www.resiclubanalytics.com/p/morgan-stanley-2024-housing-market-poised-improvement-affordability-seen-handful-times-past-35 https://www.resiclubanalytics.com/p/zillow-walks-back-bullish-2024-home-price-forecast Timestamps: 00:00–00:34 Intro 00:34 Rates have come down 01:27 The FHFA has increased conforming loan limits to $766,550 in 2024 02:36 Leveraging consistency & rate drops to switch up your scripts 07:55 The more specific you are with today’s consumer, the better/ 13:26 Know your local rates and conforming loan limits (some are higher) 16:27 Pay attention when your lending partners are talking about changing products. 17:42 Morgan Stanley & ResiClub (Lance Lambert) on housing affordability 26:50 Zillow forecast for 2024 33:05 Future-pacing with sellers at listing appointments ——— Connect with Byron Lazine: https://www.instagram.com/byronlazine Connect with Tom Toole: https://www.instagram.com/tomtoole3rd/ Connect with Lisa Chinatti: https://www.instagram.com/lisachinatti/ ——— BAM delivers real estate news, education, and entertainment with nonstop original content from an unmatchable line-up of industry personalities and top producers. Subscribe to BAM YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/aatxhaka. Subscribe to BAM Newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/nowbam/the-best-newsletter-in-real-estate Check out BAM: https://nowbam.com/ ——— BAM PARTNERS 𝐕𝐮𝐥𝐜𝐚𝐧𝟕: The most accurate, powerful, and effective real estate seller lead generation resource to build your business. GET STARTED TODAY → https://www.vulcan7.com/bam/ 𝐕𝐢𝐫𝐭𝐮𝐝𝐞𝐬𝐤: Hire a Virtual Assistant Today! Use code BAM200 for $250 OFF the signup fee → https://myvirtudesk.com/contact?promocode=BAM200 ——— #mortgagerates #conformingloanlimits #housingaffordability

Tom Toole and Lisa Chinatti discuss copycat commission lawsuits, a terrible WSJ headline, an interview with Michael Ketchmark and Josh Flagg, a role-playing script on interest rates, and the 2023 Turkeys of the Year. Become a member of BAMx: https://bamx.uscreen.io/pages/subscribe Use discount code KNOWLEDGEBROKERS for 10% off your annual subscription. kvCORE and BoomTown are delivering the innovative solutions, and the support you need to power your business and scale your success: https://boomtownroi.com/knowledgebrokers Subscribe to Knowledge Brokers Podcast today: https://www.youtube.com/@knowledgebrokerspodcast?sub_confirmation=1 Join the 5AM Call: https://5amcall.com/ Resources: https://nowbam.com/industry-lawsuit-watch-tracking-real-estates-biggest-legal-battles/ Timestamps: 00:00–00:55 Intro 00:55 Copycat lawsuits, Ketchmark comments, and what agents should be doing right now 02:08 Lawsuit filed against Texas Realtor associations and 20+ brokerages and teams 03:22 The #1 Not-to-do thing (for agents) 09:46 “The Wall Street Journal had a terrible headline…” 13:00 What’s going to happen to the industry afterwards (i.e. what this is all about) 14:54 Timeline for future filings in response to the Sitzer/Burnett verdict 18:00 Michael Ketchmark interview (Josh Flagg) and Tom’s take on Ketchmark’s comments 21:33 Lisa’s take: the agent who should have gone up against Ketchmark, etc. 30:47 A quote from Lisa C in a HousingWire article re: copycat lawsuits 34:01 Stereotypes vs reality — and what knowledge brokers focus on 38:23 Turkeys of the year (plural) 42:53 Role-playing script about interest rates (biggest rate drop in 12 months) ——— Connect with Byron Lazine: https://www.instagram.com/byronlazine Connect with Tom Toole: https://www.instagram.com/tomtoole3rd/ Connect with Lisa Chinatti: https://www.instagram.com/lisachinatti/ ——— BAM delivers real estate news, education, and entertainment with nonstop original content from an unmatchable line-up of industry personalities and top producers. Subscribe to BAM YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/aatxhaka. Subscribe to BAM Newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/nowbam/the-best-newsletter-in-real-estate Check out BAM: https://nowbam.com/ ——— BAM PARTNERS 𝐕𝐮𝐥𝐜𝐚𝐧𝟕: The most accurate, powerful, and effective real estate seller lead generation resource to build your business. GET STARTED TODAY → https://www.vulcan7.com/bam/ 𝐕𝐢𝐫𝐭𝐮𝐝𝐞𝐬𝐤: Hire a Virtual Assistant Today! Use code BAM200 for $250 OFF the signup fee → https://myvirtudesk.com/contact?promocode=BAM200 ——— #buyeragency #nationalassociationofrealtors #wallstreetjournal

Byron Lazine, Lisa Chinatti, and Tom Toole discuss the drop in mortgage rates over the past week, why agents should "lead with payments" (and how), email/text scripts that don't work---and those that do, Alex Hormozi's tips on charisma, how to use your CRM more effectively, the importance of having EWC, and how to deliver a great buyer meeting (aka buyer consult). Become a member of BAMx: https://bamx.uscreen.io/pages/subscribe Use discount code KNOWLEDGEBROKERS for 10% off your annual subscription. kvCORE and BoomTown are delivering the innovative solutions, and the support you need to power your business and scale your success: https://boomtownroi.com/knowledgebrokers Subscribe to Knowledge Brokers Podcast today: https://www.youtube.com/@knowledgebrokerspodcast?sub_confirmation=1 Join the 5AM Call: https://5amcall.com/ Resources: CNBC article on mortgage rates: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/09/mortgage-rates-just-plungedsee-how-much-youd-pay-at-the-current-rate.html Taya DiCarlo’s IG post: https://www.instagram.com/p/CzUwB1ov46p/ Brian Boero's Tweet: https://twitter.com/1000wattbrian/status/1722659746292158968 Byron's quote Tweet (response to Redfin CE, Daryl Fairweather): https://twitter.com/ByronLazine/status/1719682540334616874 Timestamps: 00:00–00:42 Intro 00:42 Mortgage rates: the largest one week drop in a year 01:23 “Lead with payment is everything right now.” 04:55 CNBC article: “Mortgage rates just plunged…” 08:01 “Being an advocate is more important than ever…” 11:11 Examples of email/text message scripts—those that work and those that do NOT 15:00 “People do things for their reasons—not yours.” 15:44 Alex Hormozi’s example & what it means to be charismatic 20:09 “We’ve got to get agents using their CRM far more effectively…” 26:00 “Our CRM should be used as protection for agents…” 27:37 “If you’re not up on EWC, you have a problem.” (Express Written Consent) 29:15 New cases filed after the Sitzer/Burnett verdict 32:38 How NAR’s defense at Sitzer/Burnett fell short 35:15 Taya DiCarlo’s IG post—her breakdown of CNN 39:22 How to deliver a great buyer meeting (buyer consult) 44:36 “Every day is a job interview.” ——— Connect with Byron Lazine: https://www.instagram.com/byronlazine Connect with Tom Toole: https://www.instagram.com/tomtoole3rd/ Connect with Lisa Chinatti: https://www.instagram.com/lisachinatti/ ——— BAM delivers real estate news, education, and entertainment with nonstop original content from an unmatchable line-up of industry personalities and top producers. Subscribe to BAM YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/aatxhaka. Subscribe to BAM Newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/nowbam/the-best-newsletter-in-real-estate Check out BAM: https://nowbam.com/ ——— BAM PARTNERS 𝐕𝐮𝐥𝐜𝐚𝐧𝟕: The most accurate, powerful, and effective real estate seller lead generation resource to build your business. GET STARTED TODAY → https://www.vulcan7.com/bam/ 𝐕𝐢𝐫𝐭𝐮𝐝𝐞𝐬𝐤: Hire a Virtual Assistant Today! Use code BAM200 for $250 OFF the signup fee → https://myvirtudesk.com/contact?promocode=BAM200 ——— #mortgagerates #nationalassociationofrealtors #housingmarket

Byron Lazine and Tom Toole discuss the Sitzer/Burnett verdict and its impact on the industry, the most-commented New York Times article, Zillow’s acquisition of Follow Up Boss, this week’s FOMC meeting, and what agents should be doing to move forward in the class action aftermath. Join Byron Lazine for a BAMx Mastermind: "Moving Forward After Class Action Lawsuits" on Friday, November 3rd at 3:00 pm ET / 12:00 pm PT. Sign up for BAMx to get the link, and download the free PDF guide: “11 Point Plan on How To Move Forward in Class Action Aftermath” — https://brokeagentmedia.lpages.co/11-point-plan-for-moving-forward/ Become a member of BAMx: https://bamx.uscreen.io/pages/subscribe Use discount code KNOWLEDGEBROKERS for 10% off your annual subscription. kvCORE and BoomTown are delivering the innovative solutions, and the support you need to power your business and scale your success: https://boomtownroi.com/knowledgebrokers Subscribe to Knowledge Brokers Podcast today: https://www.youtube.com/@knowledgebrokerspodcast?sub_confirmation=1 Join the 5AM Call: https://5amcall.com/ Timestamps: 00:00–00:49 Intro 00:49 The Sitzer/Burnett trial, the FOMC meeting, and NAR CEO Bob Goldberg stepping down 02:30 “For so many agents across the country, their manager hasn’t broached the subject…” 04:37 A NY Times article on the verdict is their most commented article of the year 06:54 “There are going to be things knowledge brokers need to do to survive.” 07:29 The judge still hasn’t issued his final judgment, which could impact damages, etc. 11:58 “NAR, to me, is a joke…” 13:09 “RE/MAX and Anywhere look really smart right now.” / “Bigger is going to get bigger.” 18:55 “Here’s how I think about buyer’s agency” (w/ the dating analogy) 22:04 “How you show up matters.” 25:40 ‘Perfect experiences are expected.” 28:24 Anyone can GTS. What do you do to set yourself apart as a knowledge broker? 30:56 The best week of the year for the Fed (FOMC meeting) 33:19 Josh Rubin Instagram text 39:28 “We have hit an inflection point in markets….” (Josh Rubin’s post and Byron’s response) 43:20 “This could be the window for buyers.” 45:45 Zillow’s acquisition of Follow Up Boss: Question #1 people are asking ——— Connect with Byron Lazine: https://www.instagram.com/byronlazine Connect with Tom Toole: https://www.instagram.com/tomtoole3rd/ Connect with Lisa Chinatti: https://www.instagram.com/lisachinatti/ ——— BAM delivers real estate news, education, and entertainment with nonstop original content from an unmatchable line-up of industry personalities and top producers. Subscribe to BAM YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/aatxhaka. Subscribe to BAM Newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/nowbam/the-best-newsletter-in-real-estate Check out BAM: https://nowbam.com/ ——— BAM PARTNERS 𝐕𝐮𝐥𝐜𝐚𝐧𝟕: The most accurate, powerful, and effective real estate seller lead generation resource to build your business. GET STARTED TODAY → https://www.vulcan7.com/bam/ 𝐕𝐢𝐫𝐭𝐮𝐝𝐞𝐬𝐤: Hire a Virtual Assistant Today! Use code BAM200 for $250 OFF the signup fee → https://myvirtudesk.com/contact?promocode=BAM200 ——— #nationalassociationofrealtors #jeromepowell #realestatenews

Byron Lazine, Tom Toole, and Lisa Chinatti discuss the Sitzer/Burnett trial, GDP, jobs, and mortgage rates, an impactful message from Alex Hormozi, and how knowledge brokers can help consumers make sense of the housing market despite skewed media coverage. Become a member of BAMx: https://bamx.uscreen.io/pages/subscribe Use discount code KNOWLEDGEBROKERS for 10% off your annual subscription. kvCORE and BoomTown are delivering the innovative solutions, and the support you need to power your business and scale your success: https://boomtownroi.com/knowledgebrokers Subscribe to Knowledge Brokers Podcast today: https://www.youtube.com/@knowledgebrokerspodcast?sub_confirmation=1 Join the 5AM Call: https://5amcall.com/ Timestamps: 00:00–00:43 Intro 00:43 Sitzer/Burnett (Week 2) 01:25 Byron’s take on how the trial is going 02:35 The Tom Ferry podcast clip used in the trial 05:45 Defendants file a motion for a mistrial 07:02 More feelings than evidence on the plaintiffs’ side? 08:44 Whatever the jury decides, an appeal is likely. 10:38 A settlement is still possible. 13:16 GDP, jobs, and mortgage rates 16:38 How high could rates go? 21:54 Real RISE and a message from Alex Hormozi 25:11 “You don’t know who’s watching….” ——— Connect with Byron Lazine: https://www.instagram.com/byronlazine Connect with Tom Toole: https://www.instagram.com/tomtoole3rd/ Connect with Lisa Chinatti: https://www.instagram.com/lisachinatti/ ——— BAM delivers real estate news, education, and entertainment with nonstop original content from an unmatchable line-up of industry personalities and top producers. Subscribe to BAM YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/aatxhaka. Subscribe to BAM Newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/nowbam/the-best-newsletter-in-real-estate Check out BAM: https://nowbam.com/ ——— BAM PARTNERS 𝐕𝐮𝐥𝐜𝐚𝐧𝟕: The most accurate, powerful, and effective real estate seller lead generation resource to build your business. GET STARTED TODAY → https://www.vulcan7.com/bam/ 𝐕𝐢𝐫𝐭𝐮𝐝𝐞𝐬𝐤: Hire a Virtual Assistant Today! Use code BAM200 for $250 OFF the signup fee → https://myvirtudesk.com/contact?promocode=BAM200 ——— #nationalassociationofrealtors #realestateagent #realestatenews

Byron Lazine, Tom Toole, and Lisa Chinatti discuss mortgage rates hitting 8% this week, what “longer for longer” means, how agents can “survive until ‘25,” takeaways from Week One of the Sitzer/Burnett trial, a deeply flawed study, and why Byron is happy to pay both commissions. Become a member of BAMx: https://bamx.uscreen.io/pages/subscribe Use discount code KNOWLEDGEBROKERS for 10% off your annual subscription. kvCORE and BoomTown are delivering the innovative solutions, and the support you need to power your business and scale your success: https://boomtownroi.com/knowledgebrokers Subscribe to Knowledge Brokers Podcast today: https://www.youtube.com/@knowledgebrokerspodcast?sub_confirmation=1 Join the 5AM Call: https://5amcall.com/ Timestamps: 00:00–00:43 Intro 00:43 Mortgage rates hit 8% this week 03:03 10-yr is at its highest since 2007 (4.9%) 04:09 Big takeaways from 8% 07:50 Mortgages at 5% or lower—from 90% to 83% 09:58 “It’s ‘survive until ‘25’ right now.” 14:23 What does “longer for longer” mean? 20:31 Tom’s Instagram poll: 40% have never made a business plan 23:08 Day 3 of the Sitzer/Burnett trial: training scripts and presentation slides 24:21 Byron’s takeaways: “I like what Gino (Blefari) said…” 26:30 Lisa’s takeaways on opening statements and plaintiff testimonies 30:27 Will cooperative compensation survive these lawsuits? 33:15 Flawed study: Redfin traffic reflects consumer activity, not agents steering clients away 38:56 Byron’s experience selling a home—and why he’s happy to pay both commissions 40:22 Realtor.com chief economist Danielle Hale will be here next week! ——— Connect with Byron Lazine: https://www.instagram.com/byronlazine Connect with Tom Toole: https://www.instagram.com/tomtoole3rd/ Connect with Lisa Chinatti: https://www.instagram.com/lisachinatti/ ——— BAM delivers real estate news, education, and entertainment with nonstop original content from an unmatchable line-up of industry personalities and top producers. Subscribe to BAM YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/aatxhaka Subscribe to BAM Newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/nowbam/the-best-newsletter-in-real-estate Check out BAM: https://nowbam.com/ ——— BAM PARTNERS 𝐕𝐮𝐥𝐜𝐚𝐧𝟕: The most accurate, powerful, and effective real estate seller lead generation resource to build your business. GET STARTED TODAY → https://www.vulcan7.com/bam/ 𝐕𝐢𝐫𝐭𝐮𝐝𝐞𝐬𝐤: Hire a Virtual Assistant Today! Use code BAM200 for $250 OFF the signup fee → https://myvirtudesk.com/contact?promocode=BAM200 ——— #mortgagerates #housingmarket #interestrates

Tom Toole and Lisa Chinatti discuss CPI data and comments from Lawrence Yun and Logan Mohtashami, falling incomes in 17 states, coaching clients in the current market, role-play skills development, the 80/20 rule in real estate, and business planning for 2024.