

Curious Minds at Work
Gayle Allen
Want to get better at work? At managing others? Managing yourself? Gayle Allen interviews experts who take your performance to the next level. Each episode features a book with insights to help you achieve your goals.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jul 4, 2022 • 59min
CM 217: Anh Dao Pham on How to Succeed as a Project Leader
In most organizations, moving up means managing projects. And if you want to grow your project management skills, you’ve got a wealth of resources to choose from. Everything from books and podcasts to courses and certifications.
What’s much harder to find is information on how to lead a project, not just manage one. It’s the missing piece that may ultimately be more important to your project’s success.
That’s why I wanted to interview Anh Dao Pham, author of the book, Glue: How Project Leaders Create Cohesive, Engaged, High-Performing Teams. Anh has decades of experience leading projects for tech companies. But it wasn’t until a conversation with a mentor that she realized the more apt title for her work is project leader, not manager. Adding tangible project leadership skills to her work has made all the difference.
And that’s what she shares in her book. The essential leadership skills project leaders need to start, maintain, and end successful projects. It’s a how-to for being the glue your team needs to succeed.
Episode Links
What Happy People Know by Dan Baker
How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
Influence by Robert Cialdini
Elementary (TV Series)
Give and Take by Adam Grant
Grit by Angela Duckworth
Rituals Roadmap by Erica Keswin
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.

Jun 20, 2022 • 57min
CM 216: Megan Gerhardt on Navigating a Multi-Generational Workplace
For the first time in U.S. history, we have employees from five different generations working side by side. With so many different perspectives and life experiences, conflict is inevitable.
Unfortunately, this often leads to stereotyping. We classify colleagues as millennial snowflakes, entitled young people, or clueless boomers. When this happens, we miss out on some of the greatest business opportunities of the twenty-first century. Opportunities to build better products and services informed by a diverse mix of views. Chances to develop better learning experiences where we cross pollinate different generational strengths.
Fortunately, Megan Gerhardt’s written a book to help us navigate the shark-filled waters of multi-generational management. It’s called, Gentelligence: The Revolutionary Approach to Leading an Intergenerational Workforce. In it, she shares the hallmarks of each generation, including what motivates and worries them. She also shares insightful ways to lead and build rapport. It’s a resource you’ll return to again and again.
Episode Links
Protecting My Turf: The Moderating Role of Generational Differences on the Relationships between Self-direction and Hedonism Values and Reactions to Generational Diversity
An Exploratory Study of Gender and Motivation to Lead in Millennials
Fluid and Crystallized Intelligence
Bias Interrupted by Joan Williams and her interview on Curious Minds at Work
Leaders Who Coach by Jan Salisbury
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.

40 snips
Jun 6, 2022 • 56min
CM 215: Roger Martin on Rethinking Management
The most successful leaders are always looking for an edge. It could be a competitive edge for their organizations, their teams, even themselves.
One of the most effective ways to gain that edge is to notice what others miss. It’s about rethinking accepted wisdom around things like, strategy, planning, and execution.
This week’s guest, Roger Martin, is someone who brought that kind of critical thinking to his own successful business and who now brings it to leaders around the world. He shares what he’s learned in his latest book, A New Way to Think: Your Guide to Superior Management Effectiveness.
Whether you’ve recently moved into a management position or you’ve been leading for decades, this is a practical and thoughtful resource. It’s a guide to rethinking many of our assumptions about management and leadership.
Episode Links
John Dewey
Randall L Stephenson
Isadore Sharp
Roger Martin on the Efficiency Myth
The Upside of London Tube Strikes
Power: Why Some People Have It and Others Don't by Jeffrey Pfeffer
Roger Martin on Medium
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
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May 23, 2022 • 47min
CM 214: Moshe Bar On Our Creative Brains
Most of us are productivity junkies. We pride ourselves on how much we accomplish and how long we maintain our focus.
But our brains know better. Sooner or later, they start to wander. To the tune of nearly half our waking hours.
Moshe Bar, cognitive scientist and author of the book, Mindwandering: How Your Constant Mental Drift Can Improve Your Mood and Boost Creativity, argues that we need these daydreams. They promote connections that inform our sense of self, lift our mood and stimulate creativity. Bar also believes the better we understand how mind wandering works, the more effective we’ll be at accessing it when we need it most.
This is a mind-expanding book. It’ll give you a peek into the thought process of a brilliant cognitive scientist and a new appreciation for what you may have thought of as an annoying mental habit.
Episode Links
Raising the Bar: The Brain Scientist Who Studies the Past to Predict the Future
Think Less, Think Better by Moshe Bar
Karl Popper
Jon Kabat-Zinn
Reculturing by Melissa Daimler
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
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May 9, 2022 • 1h 2min
CM 213: Todd Rose On The Hidden Costs of Fitting In
Research shows our desire to fit in is incredibly strong. If you've ever disagreed with a group, but were afraid to speak up, you know the feeling. It means we go along to get along.
Unfortunately, these feelings are the rule, not the exception. Millions of people experience them on a regular basis.
It’s a phenomena psychologists call pluralistic ignorance, and it distorts how we see the world. From racial segregation to discarding healthy kidneys slated for organ transplants, the effects can be enormous.
Todd Rose, author of the book, Collective Illusions: Conformity, Complicity, and the Science of Why We Make Bad Decisions, believes it’s a much bigger problem than we realize, one that reinforces norms and shapes systems that hold us back. Todd not only explains the science behind it, but offers things we can do to address it, things that, ultimately, will make us happier and healthier in the process. It’s a terrific and timely read!
Episode Links
Middle Schoolers say they want to be famous
Solomon Asch
Leon Festinger
Rene Girard
Populace
Story Like You Mean It by Dennis Rebelo
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
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Apr 25, 2022 • 1h 1min
CM 212: Zoe Chance on Influence, Charisma, and Persuasion
The best filmmakers are influencers. They direct your attention using words, sounds, and images, and, within seconds, they’ve got you seeing the world through their eyes.
But you don’t have to be a filmmaker to influence someone’s behavior.
Whether you’re managing a team or leading an organization, you have access to influence. It’s in the way you frame a conversation. How you negotiate. When you ask.
The most influential people spend time planning and practicing these skills in advance. They recognize that these are tools they can learn to use.
Yale Professor Zoe Chance understands how influence works, and she knows how to teach it. Her book, Influence is Your Superpower: The Science of Winning Hearts, Sparking Change, and Making Good Things Happen, is filled with stories, tips, and exercises that take the mystery out of influence.
That’s what I loved the most about the book. That influence is far from mysterious. Instead, it’s a skill we can develop to create value for ourselves and others.
Episode Links
Learning the Language of Influence and Persuasion
The Principle of Commitment and Behavioral Consistency
Mastering Influence and Persuasion course at Yale
The Door-in-the-Face Technique (procedure for inducing compliance)
Pronoun Use Reflects Standings in Social Hierarchies
Darren Brown and The Push and The Apocalypse
Think Fast, Talk Smart podcast with Matt Abrahams
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
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Apr 11, 2022 • 46min
CM 211: Liz Wiseman on Standing Out at Work
If someone asked what they should do to succeed in their job, you’d probably have a quick response. You might say something like, just do what you’re asked, get your work done on time, or don’t step on anyone’s toes.
But what if the question wasn’t about how to succeed, but how to stand out as the best of the best?
These are the high performers Liz Wiseman calls “impact players.” They’re the ones who leave an indelible mark on their work and the people around them. Liz spoke with nearly 200 top professionals, and she uncovered 5 behaviors that set them apart. Her findings inform her latest book, Impact Players: How to Take the Lead, Play Bigger, and Multiply Your Impact.
Liz Wiseman is CEO of the Wiseman Group, a former corporate executive, and author of the bestselling book on leadership, The Multiplier Effect. No matter what role you’re in, you’ll learn what it takes to develop the skills of the highest impact employees in today’s organizations.
Episode Links
Accidental Diminisher Quiz
Rookie Smarts Quiz
Impact Players Quiz
Multipliers by Liz Wiseman
The Art of Insubordination by Todd Kashdan
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
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Mar 28, 2022 • 44min
CM 210: Judson Brewer on Unwinding Anxiety
Humans have always lived with anxiety. Thousands of years ago, we feared attacks by wild animals. Today we worry whether we’ll have enough money to retire.
It’s not the anxiety that matters, but how we handle it. Our responses can often compound the problem.
For example, feeling anxious about a demanding customer, we reward ourselves with a pint of ice cream. As the pressure mounts, it becomes a daily habit, and then, an addiction. At that point, our response to anxiety is no longer giving us the reward we expected. Instead, it makes us feel worse.
Judson Brewer offers an alternate path. A medical doctor and researcher, he studies anxiety and addiction. He’s spent his career helping people unwind the habits that amplify their anxiety and lead to unhealthy, addictive behaviors. Judson shares these methods in his latest book, Unwinding Anxiety: New Science Shows How to Break the Cycles of Worry and Fear to Heal Your Mind.
He argues that we can’t think our way out of anxiety. Instead, through a combination of mindfulness, practice, and understanding our habit loops, we can change our behaviors for life. It’s a thoughtful, compelling approach that will give you a different perspective on anxiety.
Episode Links
Eric Kandel
Reinforcement Learning
Thomas Borkovec
Default Mode Network (DMN)
Yerkes-Dodson Law
Flow by Mihalyi Csikszentmihalyi
Dopamine reward prediction error
Dana Small
Four Thousand Weeks by Oliver Burkeman
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
Click here and then scroll down to see a sample of sites where you can subscribe.

Mar 14, 2022 • 47min
CM 209: Joan Williams on Practical Solutions for Diversity
Imagine that fewer people are buying your organization’s product or service. It’s a shift you didn’t anticipate. To fix it, you study the data, identify the problem, and then take steps to address it.
Your plan may include changes in marketing or team incentives. What it won’t include is doing nothing or trying to turn things around with one grand gesture.
Yet that’s how we often approach meeting diversity, equity, and inclusion goals.
Joan Williams is author of the book, Bias Interrupted: Creating Inclusion for Real and for Good. She’s a Professor of Law at the University of California, Hastings College of Law, where she directs the Center for WorkLife. For decades, she’s studied structural inequality in the workplace.
What she’s learned is that the most successful organizations treat diversity as a business goal.
I wanted to interview Joan because she offers a fresh perspective on the topic. Through her work, she’s identified the most common ways bias shows up in organizations. She’s also figured out how to make bias training more effective. Finally, she’s learned which question to ask to determine an organization’s commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion.
After listening to this interview, I guarantee you’ll walk away with lots of new insights.
Episode Links
Bias Interrupters
Why Companies Should Add Class to Their Diversity Discussions
A Winning Parental Leave Policy Can Be Surprisingly Simple
How One Company Worked to Root Out Bias from Performance Reviews
Data-Driven Diversity
Implicit Association Test
Class Advantage, Commitment Penalty: The Gendered Effects of Social Class Signals in an Elite Labor Market
The Maternal Wall
Matrix by Lauren Groff
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
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Feb 28, 2022 • 52min
CM 208: Mary-Frances O’Connor on How We Learn from Love and Loss
Why do we grieve, and what happens when we do? For much of human history, answers to these questions have come primarily from writers and thinkers. While they’ve given us powerful language to describe how we feel, they’ve shed little light on the science behind our feelings.
Neuroscientists are changing that. Armed with innovative approaches for studying grief, coupled with modern technologies that capture it, researchers are learning what happens in our brains when we grieve. Their findings reveal not only why we grieve, but the important role learning plays throughout the grieving process.
Mary-Frances O’Connor, Director of the Grief, Loss, and Social Stress Lab, and professor at the University of Arizona, has been at the forefront of this research. In her book, The Grieving Brain: The Surprising Science of How We Learn from Love and Loss, we learn how she and her colleagues are creating a new paradigm for understanding grief and the grieving process.
A remarkable writer and storyteller, Mary-Frances has written a compelling book. In it, she corrects many of our misconceptions, while expanding what we know about an experience we all, ultimately, will have.
Episode Links
The Year of Magical Thinking by Joan Didion
M. Katherine Shear and The Columbia Center for Prolonged Grief
George A. Bonnano and the Loss, Trauma, and Emotion Lab
It's Time to Let the Five Stages of Grief Die
The Dual Process Model of Coping with Bereavement
Changing Lives of Older Couples
Noam Schneck
Donald Robinaugh
The Power of Fun by Catherine Price
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
Click here and then scroll down to see a sample of sites where you can subscribe.