
Curious Minds at Work
Want to get better at work? At managing others? Managing yourself? Gayle Allen interviews experts who take your performance to the next level. Each episode features a book with insights to help you achieve your goals.
Latest episodes

Aug 15, 2022 • 43min
CM 219: Susannah Baldwin on Women’s Voices at Work
Is our cultural conditioning holding women back at work?
We don’t often notice how we’re culturally conditioned. Like when we walk into a store and the girls’ toys are pink and boys’ toys are blue. It’s a gender norm we may not question.
Now you might ask, in the big scheme of things, how much do kids’ toy colors really matter? But what about actual behaviors, like when girls are playing together and they’re told to be quiet and play nice?
Years later, these kinds of gender norms show up in the workplace. For example, men can be loud and openly ambitious, while women need to be warm and likeable. Yet, it’s these kinds of behaviors that can hold women back.
The kind of body language and spoken language that got women the job may not get them promoted.
I invited Susannah Baldwin on the show because she’s spent decades studying the causes and effects of women’s cultural conditioning and its impact on their advancement in the workplace. In her book, Women, Language, and Power: Giving Voice to Our Ambition, she shines a light on how dominant a force this conditioning is. She also offers thoughtful guidance on how to overcome it.
Whether you’re looking to understand the challenges for yourself or your team, you’ll find this book to be an incredible resource.
Episode Links
What Likeability Really Means in the Workplace
Bem Sex-Role Inventory
Let's Talk: Make Effective Feedback Your Superpower by Therese Huston
Self-Promotion as a Risk Factor for Women: The Costs and Benefits of Counterstereotypical Impression Management
Karin Martin gender researcher
Persuasiveness of Confidence Expressed via Language and Body Language
Anna Fels
Executive Presence by Sylvia Ann Hewlett
Interior Chinatown by Charles Yu
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
Click here and then scroll down to see a sample of sites where you can subscribe.

Aug 1, 2022 • 51min
CM 219: Britt Frank on Getting Unstuck
There are times in our lives where we feel stuck, be it personally or professionally. It might be in our career. It might in a relationship.
We’re smart, so we try to think our way out of it. But when we’re really stuck, thinking can turn into ruminating. And the more we think, the more we stay stuck. That’s when the labeling kicks in. The voice in our head labels us lazy, or crazy, or just plain unmotivated.
Today’s guest, Britt Frank, is a licensed specialist clinical social worker (LSCSW). She’s written the book, The Science of Stuck: Breaking Through Inertia to Find your Path Forward. Britt’s the perfect person to teach us how thinking our way forward may not be the right tool for the job. In this interview, she explains how we get stuck and steps we can take to move through it.
Episode Links
Eustress vs Distress
Cognitive behavioral therapy
Brene Brown
Peter Levine and somatic experiencing
Carl Jung and the Shadow Side
Bessel van der Kolk
William Worden and the 4 Tasks of Grieving
The Sun Valley Wellness Festival
Do Hard Things by Steve Magness
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
Click here and then scroll down to see a sample of sites where you can subscribe.

Jul 18, 2022 • 45min
CM 218: Michael Wenderoth on How to Get Promoted
Most of us believe that if we're smart, work hard, and hit our targets, we've got what it takes to get promoted. And, in some organizations, we might be right.
But, in many organizations, those skills only take us so far.
Research shows that there's an additional set of skills, one we don't often discuss. Things like, strategic networking, political intelligence, and likeability.
If you're like most people, these skills bring up a lot of strong emotions. You may even ask, why can't my work just speak for itself? Yet, if you think about who's gotten ahead at the places you've worked, you may start to see a pattern.
That's what led Michael Wenderoth to write the book, Get Promoted: What You're Really Missing at Work That's Holding You Back. He noticed the gap between what we're often told to do to get ahead and what we actually need to do. This book is his attempt to fill that gap, and it's a much-needed resource for today's employee who's looking to get promoted.
Episode Links
Herminia Ibarra
Power mapping
For the Birds exhibit at Brooklyn Botanic Garden
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
Click here and then scroll down to see a sample of sites where you can subscribe.

Jul 4, 2022 • 59min
CM 217: Anh Dao Pham on How to Succeed as a Project Leader
In most organizations, moving up means managing projects. And if you want to grow your project management skills, you’ve got a wealth of resources to choose from. Everything from books and podcasts to courses and certifications.
What’s much harder to find is information on how to lead a project, not just manage one. It’s the missing piece that may ultimately be more important to your project’s success.
That’s why I wanted to interview Anh Dao Pham, author of the book, Glue: How Project Leaders Create Cohesive, Engaged, High-Performing Teams. Anh has decades of experience leading projects for tech companies. But it wasn’t until a conversation with a mentor that she realized the more apt title for her work is project leader, not manager. Adding tangible project leadership skills to her work has made all the difference.
And that’s what she shares in her book. The essential leadership skills project leaders need to start, maintain, and end successful projects. It’s a how-to for being the glue your team needs to succeed.
Episode Links
What Happy People Know by Dan Baker
How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
Influence by Robert Cialdini
Elementary (TV Series)
Give and Take by Adam Grant
Grit by Angela Duckworth
Rituals Roadmap by Erica Keswin
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.

Jun 20, 2022 • 57min
CM 216: Megan Gerhardt on Navigating a Multi-Generational Workplace
For the first time in U.S. history, we have employees from five different generations working side by side. With so many different perspectives and life experiences, conflict is inevitable.
Unfortunately, this often leads to stereotyping. We classify colleagues as millennial snowflakes, entitled young people, or clueless boomers. When this happens, we miss out on some of the greatest business opportunities of the twenty-first century. Opportunities to build better products and services informed by a diverse mix of views. Chances to develop better learning experiences where we cross pollinate different generational strengths.
Fortunately, Megan Gerhardt’s written a book to help us navigate the shark-filled waters of multi-generational management. It’s called, Gentelligence: The Revolutionary Approach to Leading an Intergenerational Workforce. In it, she shares the hallmarks of each generation, including what motivates and worries them. She also shares insightful ways to lead and build rapport. It’s a resource you’ll return to again and again.
Episode Links
Protecting My Turf: The Moderating Role of Generational Differences on the Relationships between Self-direction and Hedonism Values and Reactions to Generational Diversity
An Exploratory Study of Gender and Motivation to Lead in Millennials
Fluid and Crystallized Intelligence
Bias Interrupted by Joan Williams and her interview on Curious Minds at Work
Leaders Who Coach by Jan Salisbury
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.

40 snips
Jun 6, 2022 • 56min
CM 215: Roger Martin on Rethinking Management
The most successful leaders are always looking for an edge. It could be a competitive edge for their organizations, their teams, even themselves.
One of the most effective ways to gain that edge is to notice what others miss. It’s about rethinking accepted wisdom around things like, strategy, planning, and execution.
This week’s guest, Roger Martin, is someone who brought that kind of critical thinking to his own successful business and who now brings it to leaders around the world. He shares what he’s learned in his latest book, A New Way to Think: Your Guide to Superior Management Effectiveness.
Whether you’ve recently moved into a management position or you’ve been leading for decades, this is a practical and thoughtful resource. It’s a guide to rethinking many of our assumptions about management and leadership.
Episode Links
John Dewey
Randall L Stephenson
Isadore Sharp
Roger Martin on the Efficiency Myth
The Upside of London Tube Strikes
Power: Why Some People Have It and Others Don't by Jeffrey Pfeffer
Roger Martin on Medium
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
Click here and then scroll down to see a sample of sites where you can subscribe.

May 23, 2022 • 47min
CM 214: Moshe Bar On Our Creative Brains
Most of us are productivity junkies. We pride ourselves on how much we accomplish and how long we maintain our focus.
But our brains know better. Sooner or later, they start to wander. To the tune of nearly half our waking hours.
Moshe Bar, cognitive scientist and author of the book, Mindwandering: How Your Constant Mental Drift Can Improve Your Mood and Boost Creativity, argues that we need these daydreams. They promote connections that inform our sense of self, lift our mood and stimulate creativity. Bar also believes the better we understand how mind wandering works, the more effective we’ll be at accessing it when we need it most.
This is a mind-expanding book. It’ll give you a peek into the thought process of a brilliant cognitive scientist and a new appreciation for what you may have thought of as an annoying mental habit.
Episode Links
Raising the Bar: The Brain Scientist Who Studies the Past to Predict the Future
Think Less, Think Better by Moshe Bar
Karl Popper
Jon Kabat-Zinn
Reculturing by Melissa Daimler
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
Click here and then scroll down to see a sample of sites where you can subscribe.

May 9, 2022 • 1h 2min
CM 213: Todd Rose On The Hidden Costs of Fitting In
Research shows our desire to fit in is incredibly strong. If you've ever disagreed with a group, but were afraid to speak up, you know the feeling. It means we go along to get along.
Unfortunately, these feelings are the rule, not the exception. Millions of people experience them on a regular basis.
It’s a phenomena psychologists call pluralistic ignorance, and it distorts how we see the world. From racial segregation to discarding healthy kidneys slated for organ transplants, the effects can be enormous.
Todd Rose, author of the book, Collective Illusions: Conformity, Complicity, and the Science of Why We Make Bad Decisions, believes it’s a much bigger problem than we realize, one that reinforces norms and shapes systems that hold us back. Todd not only explains the science behind it, but offers things we can do to address it, things that, ultimately, will make us happier and healthier in the process. It’s a terrific and timely read!
Episode Links
Middle Schoolers say they want to be famous
Solomon Asch
Leon Festinger
Rene Girard
Populace
Story Like You Mean It by Dennis Rebelo
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
Click here and then scroll down to see a sample of sites where you can subscribe.

Apr 25, 2022 • 1h 1min
CM 212: Zoe Chance on Influence, Charisma, and Persuasion
The best filmmakers are influencers. They direct your attention using words, sounds, and images, and, within seconds, they’ve got you seeing the world through their eyes.
But you don’t have to be a filmmaker to influence someone’s behavior.
Whether you’re managing a team or leading an organization, you have access to influence. It’s in the way you frame a conversation. How you negotiate. When you ask.
The most influential people spend time planning and practicing these skills in advance. They recognize that these are tools they can learn to use.
Yale Professor Zoe Chance understands how influence works, and she knows how to teach it. Her book, Influence is Your Superpower: The Science of Winning Hearts, Sparking Change, and Making Good Things Happen, is filled with stories, tips, and exercises that take the mystery out of influence.
That’s what I loved the most about the book. That influence is far from mysterious. Instead, it’s a skill we can develop to create value for ourselves and others.
Episode Links
Learning the Language of Influence and Persuasion
The Principle of Commitment and Behavioral Consistency
Mastering Influence and Persuasion course at Yale
The Door-in-the-Face Technique (procedure for inducing compliance)
Pronoun Use Reflects Standings in Social Hierarchies
Darren Brown and The Push and The Apocalypse
Think Fast, Talk Smart podcast with Matt Abrahams
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
Click here and then scroll down to see a sample of sites where you can subscribe.

Apr 11, 2022 • 46min
CM 211: Liz Wiseman on Standing Out at Work
If someone asked what they should do to succeed in their job, you’d probably have a quick response. You might say something like, just do what you’re asked, get your work done on time, or don’t step on anyone’s toes.
But what if the question wasn’t about how to succeed, but how to stand out as the best of the best?
These are the high performers Liz Wiseman calls “impact players.” They’re the ones who leave an indelible mark on their work and the people around them. Liz spoke with nearly 200 top professionals, and she uncovered 5 behaviors that set them apart. Her findings inform her latest book, Impact Players: How to Take the Lead, Play Bigger, and Multiply Your Impact.
Liz Wiseman is CEO of the Wiseman Group, a former corporate executive, and author of the bestselling book on leadership, The Multiplier Effect. No matter what role you’re in, you’ll learn what it takes to develop the skills of the highest impact employees in today’s organizations.
Episode Links
Accidental Diminisher Quiz
Rookie Smarts Quiz
Impact Players Quiz
Multipliers by Liz Wiseman
The Art of Insubordination by Todd Kashdan
The Team
Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here.
Support the Podcast
If you like the show, please rate and review it on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show.
Subscribe
Click here and then scroll down to see a sample of sites where you can subscribe.
Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts
Save insights instantly, chat with episodes, and build lasting knowledge - all powered by AI.