The podcast explores the impact of childhood books on mindset and aspirations, transformative shift to value-based pricing, the inspirational story of Gertrude Bell in 'Desert Queen', paradigm shifts in work dynamics with Ema3visited, and the importance of decision-making for financial independence.

Exploring transitioning from hourly work to solo careers, effective time management for business growth, optimizing contractor arrangements, strategies for running a small boutique firm, and reevaluating time from billable hours to value creation. Emphasis on mindset shifts, leadership dynamics, and the importance of enjoying work for business success.

This podcast explores alternative ways to package expertise and generate sales. It emphasizes the importance of repackaging knowledge and offering it in different formats. The speakers discuss building relationships with clients and understanding their challenges. They also talk about upsizing pricing and positioning oneself as the expert. Regularly evaluating and adapting business models and experimenting with new approaches are highlighted.

The podcast delves into the differences between consulting and coaching, highlighting the spectrum in between. The speakers share their personal journeys and reflections on client transformations. They discuss the nuances of advisory retainers, transitioning between coaching and consulting, and the hybrid nature of executive coaching for Fortune 500 companies. The focus is on client engagement and guiding transformations effectively.

Seth Godin joins us to explain the generosity of authority.Talking PointsWhat “authority” means to SethThe first things that Seth thinks of when it comes to funding a missionTwo different gamesWriting every dayLevels of freelancingImposter syndromePodcastingAkimbo workshopsComfort zone vs. safety zonePublishingWord of mouthWriting a bookFinding your alignmentMaking a decisionQuotable Quotes“The more they charge, the more authority they actually get.” –SG“If you win the game to be the most generous, then you earn the privilege in the area where you seek to have authority, to exchange status.” –SG“If you’re not feeling like an imposter, I would argue, you’re not working hard enough.” –SG“If you think your secret is what people are paying for, you’re crazy.” –SGRelated LinksSeth GodinAkimbo WorkshopsTranscriptJonathan StarkHello and welcome to the Business of Authority. I'm Jonathan Stark.Rochelle MoultonAnd I'm Rochelle Moulton.Jonathan StarkAnd today we are joined by legendary marketer Seth Godin. Seth, welcome to the show.Seth GodinThank you for having me.Jonathan StarkThank you so much for joining us. I'm very excited about this conversation. I've been thinking about it for two years, so I'll try not to pummel you with random questions that are too weird but the first we want to start with, given the show title, it's the Business of Authority, what does the word authority mean to you in the context of a business?Seth GodinThat's a great place to start. I don't think it means what most people use the word authority to mean. Authority usually means what a manager has, which is power, which is the ability to get other people to do what want even if they don't want to do it. I would say that in your case what we're actually talking about is reputation. What we're talking about is a variation of trust, which is trust to the power of provability, meaning not only do I trust you but I can go to my partners, my bosses and my employees and insist that they trust you as well because you have earned that through your reputation.Jonathan StarkYes, I love the distinction. It's not the boss kind of authority. You will "respect my authorita", fabulous. Okay, so what are first things that come to mind when someone is starting to establish authority? I think it happens over time, has a lot to do with, like you said, trust and that trust has to exist in something and that something is the audience. So, you're on a mission and authority is on a mission. They're moving toward a vision that they see in the future. They're trying to lead people to that goal. What are the first things that come to mind when you think about funding that mission by building a business around it so that you can keep doing it?Seth GodinThere was a pre-question which I'll do first. Yes, as you pointed out it is in the eye of the beholder. There's a funny joke, being headed executive gets bumped off a flight on Delta and marches up to the counter and says, "Do you know who I am?", and the person behind the counter gets on the PA system and says, "Medical alert, we have someone with amnesia at the front desk. He doesn't know who he is." If she doesn't know who you are then it doesn't matter who you are and this is the McKinsey Trap. The McKinsey Trap is you're getting paid X number of dollars at McKinsey and you realize they're marking you up 4X, so you quit McKinsey and go out on your own and you can't even get paid a quarter of what you used to get paid. Well, it's the same consultant giving the same advice, so why is there a 16X difference in the comp. The reason is because when you hire McKinsey you are not buying advice. You are buying the privilege of telling the board what McKinsey said and that's what they sell. That is my current definition of useful authority in this case. It has nothing to do with proving you are right and everything to do with the mantel that you have earned in the eye of the consumer.Seth GodinNow, what that gets us is to is this whole riff about status roles because status roles are everything in our culture. Who's up? Who's down? Who gets to eat first? Why is someone dating a supermodel? Why did you buy that car? What neighborhood do you live in? All of these are status exchanges where we are trying to buy safety, or leverage or authority by acquisition of something that gives us a sense of status, so McKinsey maintains their status by acting like a diva, by not making sales calls, by charging extra. The more they charge the more authority they actually get and so while we may be tempted to hustle to get our authority, to somehow prove that we are right we are actually giving up authority when you do that because in our culture the signals that come with authority are not the same as the signals that come from the desperate chase of proving you're right.Jonathan StarkYeah and that's something we talk about all the time. I think the tricky part for people who are listening who probably agree with that, it's like, "But you can't start off by acting like a diva", right? I mean, that doesn't seem to track. There has to be this sort of progression where there's trust built and then later when you're IDEO and you've got every Fortune 500 logo on your homepage and they're all amazing brands, at a certain point it feels like you reach a critical mass and you can maintain that authority position with these status games that you just referred to. Is that the way you start though? You just go out on your own and you play hard to get with your clients. That doesn't seem like it would work.Seth GodinCorrect, another great insight. In fact, there's two games and I just described the second game. The first game is a completely different game. It is not a junior version of the other game. It is the game of who can be the most generous, that if you win the game to be the most generous then you earn the privilege in the area where you seek to have authority to exchange status.Seth GodinSo, I'll use my example. Not because I have an enormous amount of authority because I haven't sought to do that but you blog every day for a thousand days in a row. That's free. You make YouTube videos. That's free but then someone calls you up to give a speech. That's not free. That's expensive and what that means is you don't give speeches for a while because you're not willing to give a $500.00 speech because people who have something to say don't give $500.00 speeches. You will give a free speech at Ted. You will organize your own conference. Organizing a conference is generous but if you want me to get on a plane and come give a speech to your organization, that's expensive and I'm fine if you don't want to buy it because I got other things I can do that are generous instead.Jonathan StarkWell, that tracks with our normal story here, that's for sure. You may or may not know this but both Rochelle and I are daily emailers inspired by you and a friend of mine, Philip Morgan. It's transformative on your business. It's not just in the sense of you're "giving away the farm" so to speak in a particular format and being generous and sharing the ideas, honestly I think of it every day as "who can I help today," how am I going to help them, what can I write today that's going to help the kind of person who's on my list. That's great and it leads to all the things we're talking about, th...

Do you know how to position your product or service?Talking PointsApril’s backgroundWhy positioning is importantWhat positioning isEmail for lawyersProblems caused by weak positioningHow solos can identify positioning problemsChoosing criteria that ensures clients will be happy in the endPositioning the business itself versus individual offeringsHow publishing a book affected April’s inbound leadsBooks as part of the overall businessQuotable Quotes“There’s branding and there’s positioning. Those two things are totally separate, and in fact, you need to have your positioning sorted out first, before you decide what your branding should be.” –AD“Now I think there’s more of an awareness around positioning.” –AD“Now, I’m booked up 3-4 months in advance, my rates are way higher, I work way less, and my clients are way happier, because I only promise to do this one very narrow thing, but it’s a super valuable thing, and if you’ve got this problem, who else you gonna call?” –AD“If you’re going to make that investment in doing marketing, there should be a call to action in there.” --AD

Are you in the transformation business?Talking PointsApplying the concepts in The Experience Economy to small authority businessesMoving from economies to experiences and transformationsHow better experiences can lead to worse serviceHow acting factors into your business modelWhy acting isn’t equivalent to being fake or phonyPricing transformationsThe stages of transformationChoosing who you work forWhen to reject clientsGuiding transformationQuotable Quotes“We only ever change through the experiences that we have.” –JP“Understand that embracing theater as a model requires zero capital or equipment. It just requires understanding that you’re onstage.” –JP“Acting is simply being intentional about everything that you do.” –JP“With transformations, the customer is the product. The inputs you do, the activities you do, the functional things that you do, the whats – don’t matter unless the customer achieves the aspiration that they want.” –JPJoe’s BioCo-author of The Experience Economy, Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups alike.In 1999, Joe and his partner James H. Gilmore wrote the best-selling book The Experience Economy: Work is a Theatre & Every Business a Stage, which demonstrates how goods and services are no longer enough; what companies must offer today are experiences – memorable events that engage each customer in an inherently personal way.Related LinksJoe Pine The Experience Economy Strategic Horizons Joe on Twitter

Learn about strategies for successful business development as a soloist, focusing on personalized outreach to attract clients. Discover the power of in-person networking at trade association events and the benefits of organizing strategic meetings while traveling. Explore innovative trade association strategies and the importance of systematizing business development efforts for effective networking.

You’re not on the radar of your ideal clients, so you’re not making their short list.Your ideal buyers are aware of you, but don’t recognize your offerings as a solution to their problem.Your buyers recognize that you offer a potential solution to their problem, but they don’t find your claims credible—they don’t trust you (yet).Your ideal people trust your solution to their potential problem, but your solution costs more than it’s worth to them to solve it.Quotables“A market is a place—virtual or otherwise—where buyers and sellers regularly show up to transact, to trade goods and services.”—JS“If there is commerce, there's the opportunity to make a profit.”—RM“It's very common that the buyers will not recognize that the inputs that you are selling are solutions to the pains they're experiencing.”—JS“If nobody knows you exist, there is no surprise that your stuff isn't selling.”—RM“You put a big label on the front of your bottle that says fast migraine relief…and you've still got the small print on the back with all the ingredients.”—JS“A feature is not a solution.”—RM“Find people who have a bigger version of the same problem, which probably looks like a larger buyer.”—JS“Wanting to work in your genius zone…might cause you to change your niche market vs. changing your offerings.”—RM

Why you want to learn how to business—the craft of building a profitable, sustainable business for yourself.The three most critical areas to master (delivery, sales and marketing) and how to start practicing each immediately.What to do now to avoid the “sophomore slump”—your second year when referrals tend to dry up.Why speaking and writing—even at the very beginning of your business—are worth committing to consistently.Teaching your contacts how to look out for the key trigger that says it’s time to call you in.Quotables“Use that time (your first year of business) to learn how to business, learn the craft of business, building a profitable business that you want to show up and work at every day.”—JS“(Your pre-layoff work) came to a screeching halt because somebody else made a decision that was outside of your control.”—RM “You probably think that doing a great job is how you're gonna magically get new clients.”—JS“Selling is the art of taking someone who's interested and showing them how you can help them, how you can transform their situation into something better.”—RM“Instead of pitching, you try to talk them out of working with you, confidently, perhaps with some humor.”—JS“If you're just getting started, focus on actively listening (in a sales meeting) because your instinct is gonna be to do the opposite.”—RM “You're not gonna know who your ideal buyer is. You might not even know who your target market is, but you do want to show up in places where people who might have problems you can solve are hanging out.”—JS“Think in terms of a trigger: what does that other person have to hear to know that they should call you in?”—RM