Philokalia Ministries

Text of chat during the group:  00:28:07 Josie: Does the first monk who said that he wanted to trust in God in the solitude of the desert demonstrate to us that God won't save someone who is alone or that this isn't the way that we approach the idea of complete trust in God? The context of my question being the mantra that we should trust only and fully in God and only he can help us.   00:29:51 Josie: So being completely alone isn't a sort of extra trust in God?   00:33:14 Anthony: Even in a non-monastic setting, being alone, outside of accountability to family and community, opens the mind to lots of thoughts or evil suggestions.  And a person can be alone in this sense either literally solitary or in a crowd like a college.  People can be severely tried when solitary in these senses.  There's something in Ecclesiastes that Father quotes, about walking alone, when you fall, who can help?  When you are with others they are even a preventative to falling.   00:33:36 Anthony: other people are encouragement to the heart.   00:45:18 Josie: is it weird to reveal our thoughts rather than actions and sins in the confessional?   00:45:33 Anthony: On a theological or social-theological note, this destructive sense of obedience - as I understand it, comes from Jansenism.  A Catholic Calvinism...and Calvinism focused for some reason on God's election, no place for a free love, it seems to me.   00:48:21 Ren: It is so powerful to compare the image of one who commands obedience put forward by Christ - a shepherd whose voice is followed, who carries those who are not strong enough to walk; one who stands in the midst of their followers as one who serves - to what you put forward just now - a hammer who drives others into a exact place by sheer force. Wow. Really amazing to reflect on.   00:53:45 Forrest Cavalier: μεγάλε   00:56:45 Ren: Satan - the relentless bartender :-D   00:57:42 Tyler Woloshyn: Reminds of the classic cartoon villain who keeps getting foiled by the virtuous protagonist.   01:04:29 Ren: I love this story so much. One of my favorites in the book so far.   01:04:40 Josie: me too   01:04:45 Ashley Kaschl: Same. It’s so good.   01:06:00 Josie: father does fasting help with the psychological temptations or only physical temptations of the body? hope this q makes sense   01:09:40 Tyler Woloshyn: We know that these texts were written in a different technological era.  Fasting seems to become more of a battle today for lay, clergy, and monastic alike given technology.  Temptations and challenges to fasts can be magnified even more now then they were in the age of the Fathers.  The devil does not need to walk down the road here, he can be at the tip of one's fingers with screen time.   01:10:37 Josie: someone said on Twitter "the Lord gives the solution then he allows the problem"   01:12:11 Josie: he was quoting a Rabbi i think, and was talking about the internet   01:12:46 Anthony: I think what matters is what flask you drink from - or don't.  Since 2018, the Catholic news has been consumed with obkective wrongs, which exist, but can become consumptive: 2018-2019: sex scandal. 2019, Pachademon in Vatican. 2020-2022, election , Great Reset and covid.  2022, Ukraine.  The imbalance and fixation is real but can be a poison to imbibe and gets in the way of classic spiritual food and drink.  But maybe we can turn this to our good   01:14:26 Anthony: and being one oriented to fixing social problems, this negative world tone affected my spiritual life.   01:17:06 Rachel: lol   01:17:55 keynote: Thank you Fr.!!   01:18:02 Josie: thank you father   01:18:07 Rachel: Thank you!   01:18:15 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night and God bless!   01:18:21 Sheila Applegate: Thank you!  

One of the participants in tonight‘s group on the "Ladder of Divine Ascent" described St. John’s teaching on Detachment as a “mic drop moment.”  The psychological insight and the understanding of the fickleness of the human mind and the wiles of the ego are presented to us in such an unvarnished fashion that there is no denying the truth of them.   Yet – there is something in this that is incredibly uplifting to the human heart. The truth though difficult to hear and even more difficult to embrace is liberating and offers freedom. To have a first taste of this in these paragraphs on Detachment is something wonderful. We begin to see that the monks were leaving behind everything within the world not because they hated the world or hated others; but because they were drawn there by He who is infinite and absolute Love. Within the human heart is an urgent longing for what God alone can offer. In Him we come to see the meaning of our own lives and who we are. We step into Reality. And even though this may be very difficult and even though we may want to avoid it more often than not, if we allow ourselves to be drawn by the Lord, allow Him to take us by the hand and lead us into the truth of His Life and the reality of His Love -  what an indescribable joy comes over the mind and heart. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:02:28 Lita's iPhone: Happy to be joining you all! I’m nursing my newborn so I’ll be without video 😊   00:02:37 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: welcome!   00:03:04 Ashley Kaschl: LITA! 🙌🏻   00:05:26 Robyn Greco: hi Father, Hi everyone   00:08:34 Carol Nypaver: May the fourth be with you!   00:25:49 Joseph Caro: The nuns in the movie Sister Act might have profited from a reading of Climacus!   00:30:20 Ren: I am particularly moved by the insight at the end of the last paragraph, which states that we can be tempted to disparage those in the world in order to avoid despair. Fascinating that, not possessing the faith and love necessary to find value in our life in Christ, we can turn to disparagement of others in an attempt to build ourselves up. I feel this happens a lot in our day.   00:33:58 Josie: so this is why the "why" behind detachment is so important..   00:35:11 Sam Rodriguez: Some phrases here that come to mind are "I must decrease so that Jesus may increase." Or that "It is not I who live but Christ who lives within me." That we are emptying ourselves of self, yes, but we are emptying ourselves unto the Fullness of Him. And thus, if He Within us, while Living Through us, Calls us out into the world for a Mission, then that's radically different from the Enemy shaming us for not following Him the way the Enemy says that we should, during an attack. Because, if rightfully lived, it is He Who Is Stepping into the world, through our Yes to Him. Our Yes to Him Continuing His Incarnation Through our Yes, even if it will inevitably be within the context of our own personal brokenness. Could be in the Desert. Or the "Desert" of the city. Or in the concrete realities of a Present Moment, where there is a Call to Radical Love, whatever that Moment, that Call might look like. It belongs to Him, not us. Just as *we* belong to Him, not ourselves.   00:46:23 Robyn Greco: ouch   00:49:40 Debra: What?! You mean monastic life isn't all incense and Gregorian chant...gardening, and making coffee, and beer?   00:49:53 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂   00:50:50 Robyn Greco: wow...6 is what those of us today would call a mic drop moment. no beating around the bush and ever so true   00:54:44 Carol: can't help comparing this to the adoration and attention an expectant mother receives vs. the relentless hidden self-sacrifice of new parenthood   01:03:09 Lilly: One should be very mindful of their inner struggles and not enter monastic life to ‘escape’   01:04:26 Anthony: "Monastic" and "curmudgeon" are two distinct and different modes of life.   01:10:39 Robyn Greco: lol   01:11:30 Robyn Greco: You Father? a curmudgeon? I don't believe it.....🤣   01:11:42 Debra: 😆   01:12:26 Erick chastain: honestly I seem curmudgeonly when everyone around me is saying obscene things and I have to tell them that they are doing wrong.   01:13:07 Robyn Greco: I have to go, dog needs her insulin shot. Thank you Father, see you all next week   01:14:37 Lita's iPhone: Thank you!   01:14:44 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!!   01:15:05 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father!!   01:15:06 Josie: thank you  

The wisdom of the Fathers and the essential and fundamental elements of the spiritual life that they present us with is valuable beyond expression. Whether novices in the spiritual life or having struggled for many years, one is given a precious gift in reading the Evergetinos! Synopsis:  We picked up once again this evening with Hypothesis 20 on heeding the advice of the elders and the importance of revealing one’s thoughts without embarrassment or shame. How beautiful it is when an elder has such compassion and love (as well as patience) to help those in his charge to set before God all of their thoughts and sins. What a blessing it is when you have one who is willing to wait even years, assisting you in the spiritual life, helping you to trust ever more fully in the power of grace and in the depths of God’s mercy. The Evil One seeks to do nothing but undermine this trust in God and in one’s elder. Even when we are tortured by our sins or our thoughts and temptations we often remain silent; because the evil one convinces us how shameful such thoughts might be. The closer we get to speaking them the more he seeks to make us question the value of doing so. The father’s counsel on this is incredibly valuable. It reveals to us the wisdom of God and how it overcomes the cunning of the Evil One. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:18:25 Josie: When we have thoughts that we don't identify with the “inner self” or “inner man” but rather as false self, are we meant to 1) engage them in order to dismantle them at the root and deal with what part of us causes or wants to believe them, OR alternatively 2) do we simply ignore them/reject them as false and just re-center ourselves?   00:21:25 Tyler Woloshyn: This brings to mind the Psalmist when he speaks about in Psalm 136 (LXX) to deal with those sins, passions, vices by dashing them against the rock. To dash them against the Rock of Christ early on rather than much later.   00:23:27 Tyler Woloshyn: (I know it is a controversial psalm, but blessed are the monastics for explaining the meaning behind that psalm.)   00:34:15 Tyler Woloshyn: This story is very interesting when someone is held by passions, but how can one relate to those to struggle with scrupulosity in their confession?   00:45:04 Josie: it's ok you answered thank u   00:49:17 iPad (10)maureen: Is it much like Doctor ? You can have a cancer and not Know it.   00:49:49 iPad (10)maureen: The earlier one find a hidden illness you can recover.   00:52:55 Rachel: I can top that but in my humility will refrain   00:56:09 Anthony: These elders - are they experienced, mature Christians, or is Elder in these stories here the equivalent or presbyteros or sacerdotale - a priest?   00:57:01 Forrest Cavalier: The greek is Ό Γέρων   00:57:13 Forrest Cavalier: The old/wise one.   00:57:17 Anthony: Thanks, Forrest   00:57:18 Ambrose Little, OP: That’s Greek to me.   00:57:19 Anthony: James   00:58:56 Anthony: Liberty University in the early 200's encouraged accountability partners and each dormitory hall had a supposedly mature student to be a spiritual leader   00:59:04 Anthony: 2000s   01:01:06 Rachel: I bought that book but have not read it!   01:01:29 iPad (10)maureen: Name of the book ?   01:01:29 Josie: me 2   01:01:41 Ren: A question about confession: In a situation where a certain sin has really taken root, and one finds it difficult even to resolve to try and amend one’s behavior,  perhaps even resistant to change, what recourse does one have? The thought comes to my mind that is is sacrilegious to go to confession not hoping or firmly intending to change, but it you can’t go to confession, what can you do? Are you just a lost cause?   01:02:49 Debra: Wouldn't going to confession provide the graces to help make that change?   01:04:10 Lilly: Orthodox Psychotherapy -author?   01:04:36 Anthony: Ren, I think Nietzsche actually has an important thing to say here - exert the will - not to power, but for our good. ;)   01:04:51 Sawyer: Confessing that lack of desire to change can sometimes bring great grace in itself.   01:07:14 Anthony: Lilly: https://store.ancientfaith.com/orthodox-psychotherapy   01:07:29 Lilly: Thank you   01:08:50 Forrest Cavalier: Psalm 22   01:09:05 Forrest Cavalier: My God why have you abandoned me   01:10:30 Anthony: Well FOrrest threw it out in a Cavalier manner. ;^)   01:11:10 Josie: seems God is always several steps ahead of us and there is always some level of darkness in the spiritual ;ife i think..   01:13:50 Ambrose Little, OP: Glad you became yourself again.  

In our reading of the Evergetinos, we picked up with Hypothesis 20 “On Obedience and Listening to the Advice of Elders.”  We are presented with the story of one monk, Iakovos, who was filled with impertinence and sought to place himself above others as a spiritual guide; this despite his lacking the fruit or obedience in his own life. The darkness and the trials of this monk grow deeper and deeper. The more resistant that he is to the guidance of others the more that the spirit of darkness takes hold of him. Then, in his moment of greatest weakness, the Enemy attacks him in such a way that he is overcome with a flood sinful thoughts. Taking matters into his own hands, rather than humbling himself before his Elder or before God, he mutilates himself. It is only the meekness and the compassion of the Elder that aids this monk in his darkness. Saint Savvas was able to apply a healing balm on every occasion of disobedience. Over and over again he applies the necessary remedy and offers intercession on behalf of his spiritual child.  The vivid imagery in this Hypothesis is meant to draw us into a deeper and more rich understanding of obedience and its importance for the spiritual life. Our willfulness can run so deep that we find ourselves wrapped in delusion. Left to ourselves we are capable of the worst. We can betray ourselves as well as God. May God in His mercy guide us along the path of repentance and give us the grace and healing of obedience. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:04:55 Mark: Some snow later tonight in MN   00:08:33 Lilly: Hello Fr. Blessed to be back! Happy Easter everyone!   00:17:31 Tyler Woloshyn: This kind of reminds me of the career centric mentality that Pope Francis have warned clergy against. Clergy trying to obtain monsignor or mitred archpriest status.   00:35:44 Anthony: When you take aptitude tests, clergy is considered just another job for people who like to help people. But a religious vocation is different than a career.   00:41:14 Forrest Cavalier: He cried out to his neighbors too late.   00:42:20 Ren: Is Iakovos’ failure to reveal the thoughts to an elder, and his extreme action, another manifestation of arrogance?   00:43:54 Tyler Woloshyn: It seems very relevant as it shows what happens in those instances where people who say need accountability partners if you will do not have the courage to admit their weakness and seek help.   00:45:06 Josie: For our own days, is it advisable to admit these kinds of things in the confessional? (Even if sometimes this isn't exactly a confession of a sin but thoughts/temptations)   00:45:13 Anthony: Is the finalty of the mutilation the problem?  Other saints ran into thickets to hurt their bodies, and they are saints.   00:45:42 Forrest Cavalier: You quoted St. Philip Neri in the past: "In the warfare of the flesh, only cowards gain the victory; that is to say, those who fly."   00:46:41 Tyler Woloshyn: "Fly you fools." Gandalf.   00:47:28 Debra: Tyler, you are not the only 'nerd' lol   00:47:36 Ren: The nerds: Tyler, and everyone who got the joke :-D   00:48:48 Tyler Woloshyn: Glad that we are in good company. :)   00:50:34 Tyler Woloshyn: Post-Lenten shout out to the Life of St. Mary of Egypt.   00:50:38 Anthony: OK, is our goal then to walk about in life with a serene sould, and not be bothered by any temptation of body or mind, not distressing ourselves, but letting it pass?   00:54:07 Forrest Cavalier: There is a connection to obedience mentioned in this story: he did not obey the monastic rule against self mutilation.   01:05:05 Ren: On the topic of penance, I find that penance, among other things, is valuable in revealing that extent to which a true spirit of repentance as been fostered in the heart. When I embrace my penance and perform it soon after confession I am eager to apply spiritual medicine to my soul. Often, however, I am reluctant to accept penance, anxious about what the priest will give me, and am slow in performing it. Then, it is revealed to me that the spirit of repentance really hasn’t been fostered well in my heart   01:06:42 Forrest Cavalier: The consequences in this story were more lenient than the Old Testament law: Num 15:30-31 But anyone who acts defiantly,e whether a native or an alien, reviles the LORD, and shall be cut off from among the people. For having despised the word of the LORD and broken his commandment, he must be cut off entirely and bear the punishment. Dt 18:20 But if a prophet presumes to speak a word in my namel that I have not commanded, or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.   01:08:38 Tyler Woloshyn: I felt the part where St. Savvas mentioned to Iavokos that if he could not manage a pot of beans he could not manager a monastery. It is simple yet very enlightening.  God gives us so many graces and gifts, yet at times I know where I can do much better and not looking to throw out those pot of beans when frustration over life goals or discernment does not work out immediately.  Humility is a very wonderful thing.  Even the smallest of actions can be teaching moments.   01:10:36 Debra: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime   01:10:50 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻   01:12:42 Ren: Iakovos does seem like a bit of a hopeless case. I wonder if his quick death after this last act of repentance was not an act of mercy on the part of the Lord. Take him out before he can screw up again   01:14:24 Tyler Woloshyn: Will never look at a pot of beans in the same way. Will think of St. Savvas from now on.  Especially going through a discernment process.   01:14:59 Anthony: I'd like to see us Catholics build on the theme of St. John Damascene, repentence is turning away from unnatural living and towards the life God intended for us.  That is a kind of repentence that I could more easily understand, instead of the "afflict yourself" meaning that is perennially popular among Catholics in different rites.   01:16:50 Erick Chastain: "but I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection" 1 cor 9:27   01:19:35 Ashley Kaschl: It’s kinda long. Sorry 😂 I have thoughts.   01:19:38 Ashley Kaschl: Some of these holes Iakovos has dug himself, even to the severity of mutilating himself and being cast out of his community, are reminding me of the reflections of St. Bernard of Clairvaux on the Song of Songs, specifically the kisses prior to “let him kiss me with the kiss of his lips”, which to the angels and Saints seems to be an offensive desire. Like Iakovos wanting for more than he is currently trustworthy of.    It is for this reason that St. Bernard goes into the prior kisses: namely the kiss of the feet of Christ. That Iakovos would have to humble himself under the instruction of Savvas, and return to the feet of Christ to kiss His wounds for the realization of the cost of his sins, and then extend his arm up, that Christ might draw him upwards so that he could eventually kiss his hands, entering into the life of virtue and friendship with Christ, hence the fruit of reparation.   01:24:15 Rachel: Thank you   01:24:38 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night everyone. God bless!  

Thank you one and all who participated in tonight's group. Your comments brought to life the already powerful writing of St. John Climacus in an extraordinary way! Synopsis: This evening we read the final four paragraphs of Step One of the Ladder “On the renunciation of the world.”  Climacus emphasizes the importance of letting the beginning of the spiritual life be good and strong so that the end of our lives may correspond to the start. To begin well is to end well. Thus, we want to begin the spiritual life with zeal and fervor for the Lord and without a fear of mortifying the flesh or depriving oneself. Lack of courage can mask itself as prudence and so prevent us from engaging in the ascetical life. As one Saint said, “Heaven is not for cowards.“ We are engaged in a spiritual battle and we wage war against principalities and powers who are relentless and seeking to undermine our efforts. Our determination then, to serve Christ, must be unambiguous. Whatever state we find ourselves in we must zealously pursue God and His love. All are called holiness and while we must be discerning about the path forward that we take we must clearly understand that we must invest ourselves more and more each day.  St John also emphasizes the importance of community. There are certain dangers in traveling the spiritual path alone. If one falls -  there is no one around who will pick him up out of despondency. In this regard, St.John refers to the Lord's teaching: “For where two or three are gathered in My name, there I am in the midst of them.”  St. John concludes by asking one question: “Who is the faithful and wise (monk) person?” It is he who has kept fervor unabated until the end of his life and has not ceased daily to add fire to fire, fervor to fervor, zeal to zeal, love to love. It is such a beautiful way to end the first step on renunciation. What we renounce we renounce for one purpose - to free us in order to love God unimpeded. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:08:40 Robyn Greco: Hi Father, Hi everyone. Hope everyone is well this evenng   00:08:52 FrDavid Abernethy, CO: hello Robyn   00:12:53 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Happy Easter -- Great to be here -- Alleluia   00:13:17 Rachel: Happy Easter!   00:19:33 Anthony: In my opinion, only great love can motivate a person to do what is repugnant - self sacrifice, or even a Cross.  So maybe Love can overcome spiritual sloth.  You  need to find the love, though.  It must be almost tangible, more tangible than self-love or false prudence.   00:22:22 Robyn Greco: 2 small meals and one regular meal, is that really a fast though? it doesn't seem to be   00:24:21 Ren: This is why we should never resent those who enter the vineyard at the ninth hour, so to speak. There are so many great things to be gained by spending one’s youth, and whole life, laboring for Christ.   00:25:55 Debra: What was that book/author again?   00:26:38 Ren: Adalbert de Vogue   00:26:42 Eric Williams: A point worth considering: hundreds of years ago, it was normal to go to bed shortly after sunset, sleep 3 hours or so, get up for maybe an hour, and sleep again for 3 hrs or so. Humans haven't had biphasic sleep since the invention of electric light. Vigils seem less extreme when viewed in light of biphasic sleep.   00:26:49 Robyn Greco: Does St John have any of these spiritual actions for those who are not well in body or does he not get into that? Thank You   00:27:01 Debra: Thank you, Ren   00:28:11 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: Benefits of fasting for the spiritual life:   00:29:07 Andreea and Anthony: I have always been troubled by devotions to saints that self-mutilate and that is exalted as proof of their holiness. Example St. Rose of Lima, a saint from my birth city. What you said about having the right balance between disciplining the body and torturing the body struck a chord with me. What are we to make of these saints?   00:31:09 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: We recognize that everything comes as a gift; Fasting purifies our eating; Fasting calls us to hunger for the Lord; Fasting deepens our sense of hope and expectation; Fasting stirs our repentance and compunction; Fasting controls our desires; Fasting intensifies our prayer.   00:35:15 Eric Williams: "Do not test the Lord, your God." Taking up extreme practices willy-nilly is testing God - a temptation for which Jesus demonstrated refusal.   00:35:50 Sam Rodriguez: Father, you made the distinction between mortifying the bodily passions and spiritual passions. St. John of the Cross represents that division as a progression. For example, in Ascent of Mount Carmel, it's a movement from the "Night of the Senses" (which is more bodily & our sensory engagement) to the Night of the Soul (leading to growth in Faith), then Night of the Memory (growth in Hope) and then Night of the Will (growth in Charity) as a culminating moment to the Journey. Similarly the first 8 chapters of Dark Night of the Soul is concerned specifically with the "spiritual" versions of the Seven Deadly Sins. Which presumably is for those who, if I'm not mistaken, have already passed through the Night of the Senses. If I'm wrong in giving this account, please correct me. But I'm curious whether St. John Climacus and other Desert Fathers would see this "progressive" approach as overstated--that it must all be addressed simultaneously and whether the same would apply for pursuit of the Theological Virtues.   00:37:43 Rachel: And Theresa of Avila! Among others..   00:38:17 Andreea and Anthony: Btw, what page/paragraph are we on?   00:38:31 Ren: Page 59. Paragraph 25   00:38:37 Andreea and Anthony: Thanks!   00:38:49 Rachel: Thank you Sr. Barbara   00:44:36 Ambrose Little: But he's gonna keep sayin it. 😄   00:45:12 carolediclaudio: 😊   00:46:06 Eric Williams: As I said above, vigils were less eye-popping for people - even children - when humans engaged in biphasic sleep (before electric light).   00:46:38 Robyn Greco: Biphasic sleep?   00:46:58 Debra: Robyn....Two distinct sleep periods per night   00:47:07 Robyn Greco: Thank you   00:48:56 Debra: CCD in the 70s...just be kind to each other   00:49:19 Sean: And make a felt banner   00:49:25 Robyn Greco: Do you think that's why we don't really have many saints today?   00:49:50 Debra: Sean...I'm feeling attacked LOL   00:50:10 Robyn Greco: You are a rare breed these days Father. Thankful for you   00:50:18 carolediclaudio: What page?   00:50:35 Carol Nypaver: 59   00:50:45 carolediclaudio: Thanks Carol!   00:51:00 Carol Nypaver: 😍   00:52:16 Ambrose Little: It takes time for canonizations to happen, usually. There are very many processes in progress—the Vatican office that handles this has more than it can handle, and quite regular canonizations of folks even in the last 60 years. And that's just the recognized ones.   00:53:20 Vicki Nichols: Bl. Jerzy Popiełuszko, was martyred in 1984   00:54:00 Debra: Carlos Acutis was beatified in the 2000s   00:55:30 Art: Messenger of the Truth.  Great film on Fr. Jerzy P.!!   00:56:38 Vicki Nichols: yes it is a good film!   00:57:27 Robyn Greco: sadly, today, there are a lot of us left alone in our spiritual walk, we are parched In the desert   00:57:51 Anthony: St. Maximos Skete, Palmyra / Fluvanna County, VA.   01:01:07 Andreea and Anthony: What is meant by this? It sounds like relying on emotions, which are passing. Many times the fire and fervor are just not felt.   01:02:59 Bonnie Lewis: And we must do this each and every day. upon awakening.   01:03:54 Ren: I don’t understand the second to last sentence in paragraph 24. “For you will scarcely find anyone…who is determined to mortify his flesh, although he might deprive himself of many pleasant dishes”? Could you explain this a little more? How is this form of deprivation not a good example of mortification?   01:07:20 Debra: Do you need a spiritual director to do a daily fast?   01:07:26 Debra: oops   01:09:16 Art: To Love Fasting  downloadable PDF  https://archive.org/details/tolovefasting   01:09:40 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Art!   01:10:06 Debra: Great discussion, I need to go....parish council...blergh Bye!   01:10:44 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Thank you for the link Art.   01:10:57 Anthony: Yet, food is art.  It is true, good and beautiful - there is a natural law associated with food.  We don't whitewash walls like Puritans do (well, perhaps Carthusians do) but we have and celebrate iconography.  Judicious use of God's gifts within mortification is important.  Beautiful material art can degenerate to kitsch; beautiful food can degenerate to sumptuousness.  But, we LOVE icons and we LOVE food, both made and appreciated judiciously, per natural law and spiritual law.   01:11:18 Art: YW sister!   01:12:24 Anthony: Thanks, Father. :^)   01:14:01 Ren: Norway   01:14:15 Ren: Best. Movie. Ever   01:14:25 Sam Rodriguez: SUCH a great movie   01:14:32 Bonnie Lewis: I just watched the movie last week.  It's a beautiful movie.   01:14:49 Robyn Greco: Whats the name of the movie again? Thank You   01:14:56 Bonnie Lewis: It brought them a love for one another.   01:14:57 Ren: Babette’s Feast   01:15:03 Robyn Greco: Thank you Ren   01:15:06 Anthony: I would LOVE this movie.  Food is a gift we can give to others.   01:15:31 Ren: ““Stand on the edge of the abyss and when you feel that it is beyond your strength, break off and have a cup of tea.” - Fr. Sophrony   01:16:22 Cindy Moran: Great session Fr Abernathy   01:16:25 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you!!!   01:16:42 Mitchell Hunt: Thank you Father so good  

This evening we started a new Hypothesis, number 20. The focus is on receiving the advice of the fathers and how important it is not to develop an individualistic approach to the spiritual life. Asceticism can very quickly become something of our own making. Whenever we are guided simply by our own judgment, spiritual practices can very easily lead us into pride. The longer that we are in such a state, the greater the danger of falling into delusion. One who thinks he is above the elders’ or anyone else’s judgment, he who seeks no one else’s counsel, will come to experience the greatest darkness. We are part of the living body of the Church and God has given us that which is most essential for our sanctity. Despite the darkness that we see within the world and sometimes see within the life of the Church, we do not want to lose sight of God‘s Providential care and the guidance of the Spirit. Nor do we want to lose sight of those God has put on our path to help support us and guide us. Such an attitude requires from us an openness to the guidance of the Spirit in our lives. Above all it requires humility. Our path as Christian men and women is distinctly the path of humility, the path of the cross, and so we must never be deluded to the extent that we place our own judgment above others.  In the end such an attitude will eventually lead us to place our judgment above God himself. From such a tragic darkness - we may never emerge. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:16:39 Anthony: Look at the history of Family Radio for a contemporary example.   00:18:33 John White: O felix culpa! O happy carbuncle!   00:18:52 carolnypaver: 🤣   00:22:20 Josie: you said that the reason he fell was because he did not listen to the fathers however we do not have fathers nowadays therefore we also have no one to listen to   00:29:11 Ambrose Little: We have have a great treasure trove of saintly writings to learn from and be disciples to—much more so than in the time of the early desert fathers—and to complement Scripture, and we also have our pastors, our bishops, who often provide contemporary guidance on things that are new and/or relevant to our time that may not have been so previously.  We also can have spiritual friends who can encourage us and build us up—many lay institutes, fraternities, and so forth, as well as less formal spiritual friendships.   00:29:54 Ren: God bless translators!   00:35:11 Ambrose Little: We also have this group! 🙂   00:35:32 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻   00:35:53 Ren: Yes! And a Father with a very authoritative beard to listen to :-D   00:36:48 Carol Nypaver: “Abba David of the Beard”😇   00:37:47 Anthony: To modify something attributed to Padre Pio:  "If you think I would make a mistake, do you think God would?"  Go out with a good will, be determined to be pliable to God, try to exert right reason, be cheerful & hopeful; God will take care of you, lead you along, bring you to the right people (for your instruction and for you to help), even if not an "elder."  (And beware Jansenism, the scourge of 'traditional' Catholic spiritual formation, especially among French and Americans.  I like a priest-monk friend's praise of peasant spirituality; for me, it fits.)   00:37:56 Ambrose Little: He's amazing. I love all his stuff I've seen (Fr. Cantalamessa).   00:41:14 Anthony: yes   00:43:12 Josie: Anthony do you mean also not to overthink things?   00:43:26 Anthony: that's part of it, Josie   00:43:33 Bridget McGinley: As a wound care nurse, I have seen women come in that have sincerely regretted having breast augmentation procedures due to the consequences of complications and you can see and feel the mark of remorse in them for this vanity. This story about the wayward monk resonates with me because I have seen this exact thing that is written. How do we recognize pride of heart when there are so many paths both good and  bad? Like fasting and prayer life, how do we avoid excesses? How do we know (i.e. signs) that we are being balanced and humble in our spiritual life if we don't have that spiritual father to discuss the details of our lives to?   00:47:53 Bridget McGinley: Thank you Father.   00:53:09 Anthony: Historically, Franciscans rescued Catholics in danger of falling into Catharism and Waledensianism.   01:01:55 Ambrose Little: It seems like we can lose sight of the Providence of God. We can focus on the lessening of a particular kind of spiritual guidance, or particular traditions and pious practices, or particular ways of celebrating the liturgy. But what is God giving us in place of them? How is God calling us to grow and live in our own day? What faith-filled friends has he put in our lives that we overlook or take for granted, who could help us grow? What might we be missing? Surely God is not leaving us without his gifts and the necessary helps we need to live our lives of faith? Are we insisting that God help us in the way we want rather than the way He wants? I think folks here in this group are taking advantage of one of the great gifts God is giving us today.   01:03:59 Rachel: LOL Yep   01:07:04 Ren: These stories prove so perfectly, via negativa, the teachings of the last hypothesis on obedience as the sure path to the virtues (that also protects us from pride). I frequently find myself formulating elaborate prayer rules, being very satisfied with them, and then failing miserably. So, the only thing I got out of it was an hour of pride. It seems that taking one’s spiritual life into one’s own hands is always a very dangerous way and that, unless under the instruction of a director, one should keep to the simple way of the church’s teachings, and its guidance concerning prayer. Nothing more. Nothing “creative”. The spiritual benefits will never outweigh the danger of pride. It reminds me of Philip Neri, and his disciple who insisted on keeping vigil and ended up harming himself permanently.   01:09:09 Ambrose Little: I personally prefer paleo prayer.   01:09:11 Eric Williams: Exodus 90 🙄   01:13:02 Rachel: Simple......lol ..oook   01:13:09 Anthony: Isn't my river in Syria a while much nicer than the dirty Jordan River?   01:13:26 Ambrose Little: Simple but not easy! 😄   01:13:57 Anthony: Master, if the prophet asked you to do something great, wouldn't you have done it?  So Naaman bathed in the simple, dirty Jordan and was a changed man   01:15:03 Ashley Kaschl: I think this individualism we were talking about can also lead to a touch of willful ignorance of certain areas of the faith within groups of people. I’ve encountered a lot of adults who cannot be roused to investigate potentially fruitful areas of the spiritual life because “it isn’t for them” or they “don’t want to go down that road.” There’s a sentiment of “I pray, I love God, and I’m faithful, and that’s good enough for me.” But I think that is a dangerous place to be in the spiritual life, because I don’t think we should ever be “content” with where we are. Individualistic faith seems to sometimes lead to mediocrity, which could also be a subtle symptom of pride; to cling covetously to the spiritual life we’ve “made” for ourselves.   01:17:06 Josie: does anyone know a good online bible study?...   01:17:31 Ambrose Little: Fr. Mike's Bible in a Year is great from everyone I know who’s done/doing it.   01:17:54 Josie: thank you, but i meant i group like this one..?   01:20:15 Ambrose Little: or only pay attention to the bits that agree with what we already think!   01:21:29 Rachel: Thank you   Forrest Cavalier: I wanted to share a connection I made to Hypothesis 20. The topic summary for Hypothesis 20 is in the 1783 edition in greek, translated as "That no man should trust in himself for anything, but should listen to the counsel of the fathers in all things, and should confess the secrets of his heart without concealing anything." But it seems to me that the first few stories are monks cutting themselves off from the goodness of community. And some of it can seem very brutal and harsh, and that is why I am writing. I was also reading this week St. John Chrysostom Homily 12 on Acts. (Next Sunday the reading from Acts is immediately after the story of Ananias and Sapphira. I wondered about Peter's shadow, and the homily covers both stories in Acts and shows that they are integrally connected.) https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/210112.htm I think the ideas in Homily 12 are connected to the stories at the start of Hypothesis 20, and I found this accidentally. We in the modern church do not have too many experiences of people being cast out of community, and maybe we even have frustration that more people are not cast out. But we want it to be medicinal. We want people to be forgiven and reconciled and rejoined into community. As I read the first parts of Hypothesis 20, my gut reaction is difficulty in seeing the stories as being a good model of community discipline. But then I happened to read Homily 12, which makes a strong argument that it is not extreme that prideful people are cut off from goodness, and that their wounding of the community is partially healed by casting them out. Homily 12 says that there was a superabundance of grace in the community after Ananias and Sapphira were cut off from the land of the living, and there would have been no benefit to let them live longer than they did. That's harsh! Yet, the superabundance included even Peter's shadow being salvific, which Homily 12 says was a sign greater than what Christ himself performed, a partial fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy of the greater signs they would perform in his name! And then when I went searching for "pride" in scripture, I found many other Bible passages with similar harsh consequences for being so prideful. (I found these with my search tool, and selected some of them. I included the Mt 25:21 because of the story about the pot of beans, which I think you probably will not get to read tonight, but maybe.) Num 15:30-31 But anyone who acts defiantly, whether a native or an alien, reviles the LORD, and shall be cut off from among the people. For having despised the word of the LORD and broken his commandment, he must be cut off entirely and bear the punishment. Prov 16:2 All one’s ways are pure* in one’s own eyes, but the measurer of motives is the LORD. Dt 18:20 But if a prophet presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded, or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die. Prov 16:4 The LORD has made everything for a purpose, even the wicked for the evil day. Prov 16:5 Every proud heart is an abomination to the LORD; be assured that none will go unpunished. Prov 16:18 Pride goes before disaster, and a haughty spirit before a fall. Mt 25:21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master’s joy.’ 1 Tim 3:6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.

We picked up this evening with Step One “On Renunciation of the World”. St. John‘s focus is on entering into the spiritual life, the ascetical life, fully. We are not to make excuses out of our past sins or let them become impediments to our engaging in the spiritual battle. Psychologically they can become exactly that. Shame can make us hold back from opening ourselves to God and the healing that He alone offers. Likewise, fear of what lies ahead and the discipline involved can keep us from investing ourselves fully. Rather, we are to respond as if we were called by an earthly king; eagerly leaving everything to go to him and remaining alert lest he should call us day or night. We would never give ourselves over to sloth or cowardice knowing that we would find ourselves under the king’s judgment. Thus, we are to enter into the spiritual life unfettered by worldly concerns. Whether one is a monk or living in the world, one must have God as the beginning and end of all things - the very center of our existence. He must be desired and loved above all things.  If this is true then we will charge into the “good fight” with joy and love without being afraid of our enemies, the demons. They know the movements of the mind and the heart, the patterns of behavior that they observe within us and whether or not we are scared. Therefore, John tells us, we must enter into the battle courageously for no one fights with a plucky fighter.  Naturally St. John begins by focusing on the early moments of the ascetical life. God by design protects the novice in the spiritual life in order to keep him from falling into despondency. He hides the difficulty of the contest. However, if God sees a courageous soul He will allow him to experience conflict and to be in embattled in order that he might be crowned all the sooner. Thus, God will allow us to be tested if it will perfect our love and virtue and if He sees our zeal for Him. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:09:34 Robyn Greco: i could listen to you preach anytime Father, because you're such an excellent teacher   00:18:20 Ren: The number of men who started chuckling just then was pretty fantastic. Caught on camera! :-D   00:18:40 Debra: 😄   00:18:40 Cathy: i was thinking the same   00:24:28 Sam Rodriguez: Have heard it said before “if we don’t make time for prayer, we’ll never find time for prayer.”   00:24:48 Debra: Is removing prayer time, and saying that we are too busy, a sign of spiritual warfare....or 'just' allowing our will to 'win?   00:25:16 Debra: Sorry...I don't know how to do the digital hand lol   00:25:57 Carol Nypaver: Go to “reactions”   00:26:20 Debra: Oh! Thanks, Carol!   00:26:32 Carol Nypaver: 😇   00:26:56 Ambrose Little: Alt+Y on Win; Opt+Y on Mac   00:27:16 Debra: Thank  you!   00:27:23 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻   00:29:24 Ambrose Little: Did you really go to college if you never pulled an all nighter?? 🤔   00:29:35 Debra: Yes! Fr. D, I've experienced that...a peace when I've pushed through my will, to pray   00:30:19 Vicki Nichols: I never pulled an all nighter either   00:31:05 Carol Nypaver: Same, Vicki.  I can’t function without sleep.   00:38:38 Sheila Applegate: This. Above. Not because I am an asetic but I can't function as a human without 7 hours plus. Carol. :)   00:39:37 Carol Nypaver: In living the Gospel, how do you NOT offend people?   00:44:25 RiccardoO: “You will not be far from the Kingdom of Heaven” has an interesting ring to it. Not far, but not yet in the Kingdom. Am I correct to interpret the list in this paragraph as the starting point? Is there another step that Climacus is not mentioning here, along the lines of the invitation of Jesus to the young rich man, “if you want to be perfect..”?   00:49:16 RiccardoO: Thank you father.   00:50:30 Rachel: LOL Nope, that would be me.   00:53:56 Robyn Greco: Ive lived on anxiety almost all my life but recently when I slow down and give it all to the Lord the fear leaves, literally, its holding onto that,  that is the hard part   00:54:45 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: I heard that the demons can't read your mind.  Is that true?   00:56:35 Debra: I wonder if Fr. Rippenger has talked about whether or not demons can read our minds   00:56:54 Robyn Greco: He has Debra   00:57:38 Robyn Greco: If you search on YouTube Father Rippenger you'll find talks he's done   00:58:24 Robyn Greco: I keep hearing about this "centering prayer" stuff but have no idea what it is   00:59:57 Debra: Robyn, I have one of his books...I went to get it lol   01:00:44 Debra: Yes....a 'little knowledge' is a dangerous thing lol   01:00:53 Robyn Greco: I've been told it's dangerous so I think I'll just keep staying away from it   01:01:34 Sam Rodriguez: Fr Ripperger gives an answer very similar to Fr Abernethy. One element that Fr Ripperger emphasizes is that they can access our memory and feed “thoughts” into our minds (for lack of a better term) and create confusion within us between our own inner voice and theirs   01:01:35 Ren: I love your thought about the problem being our over-reliance on ourselves. If we are weak, we are weak; that is not the problem, because God’s grace can work through that. Fear, and, essentially, the lack of trust in God that it exposes, is the real problem that leaves us vulnerable to demons.   01:03:01 Wayne: Need to attend church Services tonight.. Happy Easter everyone.   01:05:56 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 🙂   01:08:19 Rachel: If not only other people but demons can read us so to speak in order to attack us and pull us away from God through fear, can it be that when one by grace, little by little comes closer to Christ, in turn,  that person because of their close proximity to Christ can ward off attacks? Where a person is able to discern more easily because they have kept the waters still. I think of Saints like Saint Maximus. Where many were against him and he kept pressing on able to discern and not abandon Christ. ( E   01:08:42 David Robles: Dear Father David, I am an Orthodox Christian in the Patriarchate of Antioch. This coming Sunday is Palm Sunday for us. Next week is Holy Week. I would like to wish everyone a blessed Easter. Christ is Risen! Truly, He is risen! We sing an ancient hymn,   01:09:50 David Robles: Christ is risen from the dead trampling down death by death and upon those in the tombs bestowing life. 🙏😀   01:09:54 Carol Nypaver: Easter Blessings, David!🐣   01:10:47 Michael Shuman: Amen, David.   01:11:33 Cathy: Thank you David  Palm Sunday Blessings and have a Holy Lent.   01:11:59 Ashley Kaschl: There’s a good book by the late Fr. Gabriele Amorth called “An Exorcist Explains the Demonic: The Antics of Satan and His Army of Fallen Angels” and it might clear up what demons are able and not able to do. 😁   01:12:02 Sam Rodriguez: When our sufferings and trials seem to pull us farther from God and hurt our relationship with God, is it perhaps our own preconceived notion of what is a “good” thing to happen vs a “bad” thing ultimately the source of that wedge? Given that any sufferings or trials that God Permits, we can trust that He Has Covered them all in a greater Good   01:12:32 Sam Rodriguez: Grace   01:14:23 Carol Nypaver: Thanks, Ashley.   01:14:55 Ambrose Little: St. Paul spoke of something like this as a thorn in his side that he beseeched God to take away, but God said, “my grace is sufficient for you; my power is perfected in your weakness.”   01:15:01 Robyn Greco: Been trying to find a spiritual director for years,  they are,  sadly, a rare breed these days   01:16:35 Robyn Greco: We see across the street, God sees 20 miles ahead of us   01:16:56 Sam Rodriguez: I’m reminded of a prayer that Mother Teresa prayed regularly: “Heavenly Father, if there’s anything I’m doing that’s not your Holy Will, please let it fall apart in front of me.”   01:18:13 Bonnie Lewis: I love that Sam.   01:18:49 Sam Rodriguez: 🙂   01:18:56 Debra: ❤️   01:18:56 Rachel: Yes, lots of baggage affects our vision. Throw it overboard!   01:21:34 Babington (or Babi): Thanks be to God  

Tonight, I have to say, was one of the most beautiful groups on the Evergetinos that we have had to date. I do not say this lightly given how wonderful the past groups have been; but this hypothesis (19) opens up for us the meaning of obedience in such a way that one begins to understand that it is a virtue to be loved precisely because it draws us into love.  Obedience is therapeutic; it brings about healing for the soul. It place one in a right relationship with God and so heals the wounds of sin. Obedience leads to intimacy; he who does the will of My Father in heaven is my mother, my brother, my sister. We are drawn into the most intimate relationship with a Most Holy Trinity, Christ tells us explicitly, so much so that He and the Father will come to us and serve us when we have been faithful.  Indeed we already know the fruit of this in every celebration in Holy Mass. We need to only ask ourselves: “Who is it that sits at this table and who is it that serves?”  Christ has made himself the obedient One and through His obedience has given us all; nourishing us upon His life and love. Our obedience allows us to respond in kind; it removes every impediment to our giving and receiving love. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:05:53 Rachel: Hola everyone.   00:07:56 Rachel: Road rage?   00:24:45 Ambrose Little: I remember reading St. Francis de Sales recommending that readily assenting to requests, even of our inferiors (e.g., even one's small children), is a kind of obedience. It is submitting our will to that of another.   00:26:23 Sarah Kerul-Kmec: Elder Paisios is a great example of this. giving over his will to a small child in an act of obedience   00:29:11 Daniel Allen: Would it be correct to equate obedience then as laying aside one’s own ego and preference to respond to the need of the other? Not to over simplify the topic but also trying to understand the common theme among the examples presented.   00:30:38 Rachel: It seems in this type of obedience to the reality of the person right in front of you God is not only trying to teach you something but He is offering Himself! This is the perfect example of what St. Maximus just said   00:34:18 Fr. Ben Butler: Yes, agreed. Well said about confession.   00:34:59 Ambrose Little: I think so, Daniel. It's a sacrifice of ego on behalf of another. Easier said than done!   00:35:06 Daniel Allen: Sorry question is above just prior to Rachel’s   00:38:41 Rachel: Wow   00:43:54 Forrest Cavalier: Is there a footnote about the camel in your English translation?   00:51:12 Forrest Cavalier: Marriage vocations are delayed, too.   00:52:16 David Robles: Father David, maybe it would be useful to point out that we do not obey the commandments as an exercise in ethics, or finishing a to do list, a set of rules, a legalistic requirement. For the Fathers , obedience to the commandments is something dynamic, nothing less than our participation in the Life of the Holy Trinity. The commandments are also therapeutic. Following them heals us. Finally we have the promise of the Lord Himself who in the gospel of John tells us, "whoever obeys my commandments is the one who loves Me... And the Lord promises that He and His Father will come into the heart of such a one and dwell in him.   00:55:47 Rachel: Obedience seems to be very closely related to purity of heart.  David Robles just expanded on that point I think.   00:55:52 Rachel: I'm so sorry!   00:57:17 Ambrose Little: John 5:19; 31 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise…. “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”  John 10:30 "I and the Father are one." Divine union is often seen as the culmination of the contemplative life.   01:02:44 Rachel: What if one ( no this is not pertaining to me) finds  there is a request or advice given by someone that contradicts what their conscience tells them? What if the person is a confessor or spiritual director? For a parent or spouse or friend this seems pretty clear cut but a confessor or spiritual director?   01:02:57 Rachel: LOL   01:04:37 Erick chastain: it is interesting reflecting on obedience after palm Sunday. I found myself wanting to make more sacrifices for Jesus after seeing how much our Lord lowered himself for me.   01:09:12 Ashley Kaschl: Seems like Newman is on the mind, because these paragraphs and sections are reminding me of the last part of a quote by St John Henry Newman,    “Therefore, I will trust Him, whatever I am, I can never be thrown away.    If I am in sickness, my sickness may serve Him, in perplexity, my perplexity may serve Him. If I am in sorrow, my sorrow may serve Him. He does nothing in vain. He knows what He is about. He may take away my friends. He may throw me among strangers. He may make me feel desolate, make my spirits sink, hide my future from me. Still, He knows what He is about.”   It seems that obedience is tied up, then, in trust and hope, and that these sections we’re reading demand a sort of stretching of our trust in God’s plan and will for our lives to its limits so that God can show us the depths where we might find joy in our obedience no matter the circumstance.   01:10:02 Ashley Kaschl: Sorry 😂   01:10:24 Carol Nypaver: My favorite.  🙏🏻   01:11:32 Rachel: No, its my favorite! Newman probably loves you more though.   01:12:43 Carol Nypaver: 🙃   01:13:03 Ambrose Little: If we zoom out from seeing the Law as a long list of particular commands and rather as a guidebook to the practice of obedience, then it seems clearer the truth that Christ put forth when He said that He came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. For in Him is the completion and perfection of obedience.   01:16:53 Carol Nypaver: Is there anything to be gained by obedience when it is done grudgingly….against one’s conscience?  My son was forced to mask for 2 full years, in seminary, hating it all the while.   01:17:16 Carol Nypaver: 🤪   01:18:28 Forrest Cavalier: Filial piety aids harmonious community, even grudgingly.   01:19:09 Ambrose Little: If we agree with a thing, it is more akin to following our own will than another's.   01:19:24 Carol Nypaver: 😲   01:19:54 Carol Nypaver: Thank you!   01:21:55 Ashley Kaschl: Thanks father!   01:21:58 Sharon: Do you want a correspondence by phone call, email or FB Message?   01:22:04 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone.  😇  

As we step further into this first reflection of St. John Climacus on Renunciation, we begin to see how he paints with broad strokes. His intention is that we would begin this journey with a clarity of focus. Our asceticism is to be driven not by our own will or by fear or by hope of reward - but by love.  So often, we can turn the ascetical life into a matter of endurance, or self-punishment rather than a means of healing and drawing us into deeper intimacy with God. Thus, all the images that John uses in this first step call us to let go of our preconceived notions of the spiritual life and of God. We are to allow Him to draw us forward and His Spirit to guide us along the path that fosters our sanctification and salvation.  God wants us to enter this path with zeal and fervor. Love must fuel the fire within the heart that makes us run with swiftness when Christ calls us. We are to run with love and be motivated by desire. God and the pursuit of divine things cannot be set aside anything within this world as comparable in value or importance. God must be the beginning and end of all that we do. We must be ever so careful not to become calculating in our view of the spiritual life and never asceticism as another means of self-help. In fact, the self must be set aside in order that we might constantly gaze upon the face of Christ. It is Love that motivates us and beckons us and it is this Love alone that will bring us to what our heart longs for the most.  --- Text of chat during the group: 00:09:25 Cindy Moran: Good Evening!!   00:09:46 kevinferrick: Yes good eve!!!   00:13:59 Edward Kleinguetl: In a secular culture that is at war with the values of the Gospel   00:23:20 iPad (10)maureen: Sorry it was on by mistake   00:30:12 Bridget McGinley: Wow Father, that insight is profound as with the comparison of the Biblical texts. Thank you   00:30:18 Eric Williams: Stone is a building's foundation. Brick structures are built on top. Should pillars be built on bare earth? I don't know, but my guess is that doing so makes a structure vulnerable to ground eroding underneath. So, we must start our ascent will a solid foundation, for to attempt advanced ascesis too quickly would invite disaster. We might ask ourselves how firm the ground is under our ladders.   00:33:34 Ryan Schaefer: I think it is easy to focus on how much energy we put into putting awareness in Christ, rather than directly focusing on Christ. Does that make sense? Something that I have been thinking about this past week.   00:33:52 Andreea and Anthony: What page/paragraph are we at?   00:34:06 Anthony: 14   00:34:11 David Robles: Father, if a good foundation is Love and Chastity (see #8), and Innocence, fasting and temperance, which take time to learn (see#10), how can we attain to that in the beginning to be used as a foundation? In other writings Love is the summit of the spiritual life. What kind or measure of love do we need at the beginning? How is that love different from the kind of love that is our goal?   00:34:13 Carol Nypaver: 56. 14   00:36:58 Joseph Caro: Wow, I really love your interpretation of #14 Father. I thought at first it was good to build on stones. . .but your interpretation made me notice that the first two people are building structures (a stable dwelling place, either way  -- pillars on bare ground might not be within building codes but it would make a house anyway) whereas the third is running free. That's a strange juxtaposition that is only illuminated by your explanation.   00:37:13 David Robles: Thank you Father. That makes sense!   00:39:47 Eric Williams: I don't mean to belabor the point, but I may have insight as a runner. Attempting to run a race or a hard workout without warming up first could lead to either injury or poor performance. So, this metaphor doesn't strike me as very different from the others.   00:40:49 Sam Rodriguez: We live in a time of celebrity Priests and Catholic speakers that can often engender a cult of personality, self-promotion, and product-mindedness in much of our current catechetical offerings. When one contrasts that phenomenon against what St John Climacus, it seems to point to some concerning implications as to the spirit as to how current and future generation of Catholics might be formed, if not checked   00:41:39 Rachel: This is a pernicious temptation where when one is trying to avoid multiplicity they are in fact focusing too much on self   00:41:39 Sam Rodriguez: *contrasts that phenomenon against what St. John Climacus is saying   00:42:42 Andreea and Anthony: Everyone is needed in the Lord’s kingdom. My wife and I have benefited greatly from Bishop Barron and Fr. Mike Smitz, Fr. Dave Pivonka, etc   00:45:22 Anthony: Simplicity vs multiplicity. It may be better to smoke or drink in peace of heart on one's own porch than to listen to many Catholic teachers on YouTube.   00:46:03 Sam Rodriguez: Oh I agree, Andrea and Anthony. And I'm not saying its intrinsically bad. But I'm saying it *can* be bad... and i'm not pointing to any particular Priest/Speaker... and quickly acknowledge that many are wonderful and holy... but i'm speaking to the aggregate impact that such phenomenon can have to people seeking to give their life to ministry.... the glitz and allure of celebrity can be distracting... and launching a ministry such as that can sometimes rely upon self-promotion, which inherently carries spiritual risk and must be checked...   00:46:33 Andreea and Anthony: Judge not that you may not be judged. We cannot know how God is acting in someone else’s souls   00:48:26 Sam Rodriguez: If you re-read what I'm saying in those past two comments, there is no judgment intended to be expressed. This is merely a caution flag being waived. Nothing more.   00:48:29 Ren: My mind is also turned to the man found building a barn on the night he is going to die, and to Christ speaking of the destruction of the physical temple, and the enduring nature of the temple of his body. Everything in the New Testament, and here in this chapter, points us towards a less earthly, less secure (in one sense) way, and towards total abandon to the person of Christ.   00:52:01 Anthony: And it came to dust because it was intended to receive Messiah.  But when Messiah was rejected, the earthly glory was dismissed..  It's a warning for our cathedrals and basilicas too.   00:52:16 Robyn Greco: sorry im late   00:58:12 Sam Rodriguez: Amen, Father. Thank you   01:04:01 Ambrose Little: ❤️   01:05:51 Robyn Greco: i lost my spot can someone tell me where on page 57 we are? thank you   01:06:08 Rachel: I wonder at the examples of monks who fell away because of the lack of clarity Fr. Abernathy was speaking of a few minutes ago. The clarity Father A speaks of seems to be one received at every moment, from Our Lord through union with Him in whatever degree and capacity we are able to in that moment.                    In relation to St. John C., we will be pulled down by fears manifested in different idols and desires. The labor and grief also seem to be the pain that comes from the Divine Sculptor chipping away our illusions, of self and more importantly God Himself. Consumed by God Himself Also, ! I am not too sure what sublimation, that you mentioned means, so I will have to look up what you meant and how that related to what your were saying and how it relates.     01:06:15 Erick chastain: the joy of virtue should not exclude tears of compunction though   01:06:55 Rachel: Yes, Erick, a joyful sorrow. :)   01:07:43 Rachel: I was thinking the same thing. btw and am not afraid to say it lol   01:08:25 Rachel: What is peace?   01:12:37 Andreea and Anthony: Listening to the story about the Franciscan whose gift to the poor was destroyed by them before they could benefit, should we draw the conclusion that building on a large scale for others is always a mistake and a way of self-aggrandizement? For example, should Pope Saint John Paul the Great not have started any of the “big projects” he started such as World Youth Day, visiting so many countries, the work of the Catechism, Theology of the Body, etc … Should Saint Teresa of Calcutta not have built any of the homes for the poor? THAT was the way SHE was called to be the face of Christ in the world …   01:12:55 Andreea and Anthony: From Anthony: Regarding the idea that as soon as we try to enter the kingdom things go south, that seems very discouraging. Why would anyone then attempt it? It seems to me that God allows trials in accordance to what we need for the salvation of our souls, not allowing the devil to crush us immediately.   01:14:00 Erick chastain: joy should include suffering and  compunction, it is not a worldly joy   01:14:54 Erick chastain: suffering with christ   01:17:04 Cindy Moran: Thank you so much!   01:17:12 Rachel: Thank you   01:17:21 Sam Rodriguez: Thank you. Father!!   01:17:24 Rachel: If you say so lol   01:17:38 Rachel: Yes, it is drinking pure light   01:17:48 Ann Grimak: Thank you 🙏   01:17:56 kevin: thank you   01:18:08 Anne Barbosa: Thank you =)   01:18:11 kevin: Love Newman!   01:18:12 Debra: I like that the questions/comments are typed out, so I can go back and read them, if I've had to step away from the computer   01:18:28 liz2: Thank you Father!!   01:19:12 Rachel: lol I love this group  

Tonight we continued with Hypothesis 19 on the importance and value of obedience. I think it is safe to say that this is some of the most beautiful writing on the subject - one can only imagine because it arises out of deep experience.  Obedience is presented to us not as a kind of slavishness or something that leads to the crushing of the personality. Nor is it something that is infantilizing. What we find in the Fathers is just the opposite. Obedience is the prime good that we are to acquire because it casts out pride and it creates humility within the heart. Christ loved obedience because he loved the Father. It is in his incarnation that he was, by providence, obedient to his heavenly Father unto the cross and death. He obeyed the Father in love even though he was in no way inferior in greatness and dignity.  Obedience and love are intimately tied together. Divine love is vulnerable. And nowhere is this seen more fully than in Christ giving himself over to the Father’s will without question.  Such obedience also brings us healing and freedom from the danger of falling into delusion. Protected from pride, we never see ourselves and our lives as abstracted from God and his will for us. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:07:33 David Fraley: I always have snacks!   00:10:42 Anthony: "City a Desert" on YouTube is how I found him.   00:13:54 Debra: I didn't get any email today, regarding the commenting   00:24:02 Mark: Sorry… incredibly distracted on my end… what page are we on?   00:24:14 Anthony: 146   00:24:34 Mark: Thanks   00:32:21 Anthony: So this is what fundamentally makes our anthropology different than the Cathars.  They make ascetism a mere act of will.  We realize we have disjointed psychology that must be put aright.  And that is by grace and synergy of the will with grace we reorganize the soul/mind/body.  And this synergy is individual and communal.   00:37:56 Mitchell Hunt: I saw that. Very profound. Quote was from Elder Aimilianos   00:42:02 Ren: Didn’t one of the Fathers we read even talk about revealing ones thoughts to ones angel? It might have been in the context of the hermits, and I think they were able to see their angel, but I think it is still a lovely thought that could apply.   00:54:42 Anthony: I think that is a sentiment shared by Seneca the Stoic.   01:06:21 Ren: This paragraph really serves as the proof of the hypothesis: Obedience is most valuable because it defeats pride, and gives birth to humility and love of God - all without the danger of delusion. Amazing. Also helps to explain why the chapter on obedience is the longest chapter in the Ladder. Strange that the only time we really talk about obedience in the life of the church is little kids doing what mom and dad say.   01:11:16 Anthony: My discipline is political philosophy. Since the Reformation, and especially the American Revolution, we have a worldview of opposition and "I have the truth, I will separate from you."  This is immature and selfish and even Marxist, looking at life through a framework of parties being in perpetual opposition.  But classical political philosophy has a worldview based on love, friendship, patronage, "the ties that bind."  That is the Classical worldview upon which our Catholic ethics are based.