Philokalia Ministries

We returned this evening to Step 3 on Exile. St. John concludes by simply telling us that exile - simplifying one’s life - creates a stable character. This is a precious gift and so we must guard our minds and our hearts so that we do not corrupt ourselves by entering once again into what is worldly and disorderly. Saint John concludes Step 3 by taking a moment to speak to us about dreams. A dream involves the minds activity when the body is asleep. The mind, as we know, can be very active; often swept along by the things of day-to-day life or by what rest deep within the unconscious. Saint John warns us that the demons can use our dreams by playing the role of prophet. They convince us that our dreams have deep meaning, they tell us something important about the future, or tell us what is happening in a loved one’s life. Demons can transform themselves into angels of light and lead us into a kind of unholy joy and conceit over what is revealed within our dreams. We can find the demons making sport of us when we so much credence to their interpretation. Therefore, we should distrust our dreams; knowing that like the fantasies in our waking hours they can be used against us in dangerous ways.  We then turned to Step 4 on Obedience. Saint John begins to emphasize its importance for us in the spiritual battle. We are to seek this as one of our most important weapons because it conforms us in a special way to Christ -  whose food was to do the will of His heavenly Father. An obedient soul listens deeply to what God and one’s superior is telling him. Obedience protects us from the delusion of our own judgment, opinions and reasons. We do not see all ends and the fact that we ignore this does not go unnoticed by the evil one. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:11:12 FrDavid Abernethy: page 66 paragraph 24   00:28:36 Lee Graham: Entertaining our thoughts while awake   00:34:29 Iwona Bednarz-Major: Aquinas says that our imagination can be seen by demons (and good angels, as originally they are both superb intellectual beings), since they are formed in our intelligence. Is that where the spiritual warfare takes place in dreams (logismoi)?   00:39:26 Ryan Schaefer: At Franciscan U a lot of students supposedly had visions. Some students seemed very proud of the fact that they’ve seen angels, seen the future, etc… always seemed like a red flag to me   00:43:56 Bridget McGinley: Little nervous, I don't dream ( at least I don't remember). My soul!?!?   00:46:50 Cindy Moran: ]   00:49:09 Ryan Schaefer: The TORs at Franciscan always told us that we would receive consolations if we are following Gods will. Often they said if we are not following God then we would NOT receive a “spirit of peace”. Is this incorrect? How does this relate to para. 29   00:52:05 Rachel: Everytime I've read this, it has confused me a bit. Since it can be dangerous to speak about the interior life on account of the demons who will try to trick us at every moment, how are we supposed to approach confession and the revealing of thoughts to one's confessor or spiritual director? Even here it seems to me one has to be very discerning and careful.   00:52:10 Rachel: LOL   00:56:29 Ambrose Little, OP: well!   00:56:56 Rachel: Okay, ! That was what I was going to ask about the grace of the Sacrament. But we went on to dreams etc. :)     I think when I first became Catholic this witnessing was something that made me pause. Wow, thank you   00:57:04 Iwona Bednarz-Major: Fr. David, continuing my previous thought, I was always thinking that demons can only have an insight into our inner life based on our behavior but lately I've read Aquinas: Summa, First Part, Question 111. The action of the angels on man Article 3. Whether an angel can change man's imagination? with hims stating: “I answer that, Both a good and a bad angel by their own natural power can move the human imagination. " and then explaining further that thought: “An angel changes the imagination, not indeed by the impression of an imaginative form in no way previously received from the senses”, I was perplexed. If you would have any insight on that from your perspective in the future, that would be great. Thank you.   00:58:57 Rachel: Oh, I missed this week's class. 🙃   00:59:47 sue and mark: ok, thank you..   01:02:43 Iwona Bednarz-Major: thank you   01:18:02 Lee Graham: I totally agree with you   01:20:45 Anthony: Obedience has a very important role in daily work.  As craftsman is obedient to the methods of the trade and masters; a government worker is obedient to the law's "you shall" in regard to enforcement - especially when he does not want to enforce the law; a day laborer is obedient to the payor.  Obedience is especially essential in a medieval guild system.  All life is master-apprentice.   01:22:44 Anthony: mass commodity is modern edicatin   01:22:49 Anthony: education   01:22:59 Ashley Kaschl: Sorry I didn’t type fast enough before but I wanted to touch on what you were saying a paragraph ago about obedience and humility.    I think you’ve said before that at the heart of the word ‘Obedience’ is the meaning ‘to hear’, and that humility, being tied to obedience, is prone to silence.    I was thinking about something I heard a couple years back from my pastor that the word Silent, is comprised of the same letters which spell the words Listen and Enlist. So it just brought to mind that in humble silence of our prayer we listen (obedience) for His voice so that He can enlist us in the particular task He has set before us, that we might be caught up in God’s purpose.   01:23:54 Carol Nypaver: Wow!   01:27:15 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...so wonderful to be here!   01:27:17 Sheila Applegate: Thanks again, Father.   01:27:20 Ryan Schaefer: God bless you father thank you!   01:27:21 Art: Thank you Father.  Goodnight all.   01:27:21 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you  

We continued with the incredible counsel of the Fathers about how one discerns when to embrace the advice and counsel of others, specifically one’s Elder. The first distinction made is about advice - counsel that is a part of the spiritual tradition as a whole and so valuable in and of itself. This should be embraced faithfully - for it is given by the goodness and kindness of one’s Elder. When that relationship has grown throughout the course of the years a command may be given by an Elder. This command, however, is only given under specific circumstances; never casually. One must have a kind of clarity and sense of commitment to what is being asked of the Elder. This is to be done by making a prostration, a bodily action and sign of obeisance showing one’s desire to take hold of the command of the Elder. The Elder, then, in an equally concrete fashion must give his blessing. In doing so he takes upon himself the commitment to pray and fast that the one in his care would be able to fulfill the command. We see in all of this the depth of the relationship that must exist between an Elder and the one in his charge. We do not simply expose ourselves to information, reading the writings of the Elders and applying them to our lives. Rather, we enter into a living tradition and it is in and through this relationship between an elder and the one in his care that spiritual growth is made. It is a relationship of love that mirrors the relationship that Christ has with each of us. He calls us to give ourselves to Him and follow Him and in doing so He gives us himself in the most holy Eucharist. The command always holds within it the grace to help us fulfill it.  --- Text of chat during the group: 00:17:46 FrDavid Abernethy: Anthony Coniaris   00:17:55 FrDavid Abernethy: Beginnners Guide to the Philokalia   01:09:50 Ren: This reminder that the Elder prays for the one whom he counsels is very helpful. I am not sure there is anything more humbling than being prayed for - or fasted for! Knowing that another is investing themselves so deeply on your behalf definitely spurs one on to greater dedication. The gift demands a response.   01:11:26 Ren: Yes. Wow. Imagine that: God himself, in the person of Christ, fasted for each one of us. Spent himself praying for each of us. So very humbling.   01:12:09 Carol Nypaver: Absolutely.   01:20:09 Ren: Just a little PSA for everyone: we have switched our email service to MailChimp. If you did not receive an email in advance of tonight’s group, please check your spam filter, and mark it as not junk. Thank you!   01:21:32 David Fraley: Thanks Fr David!   01:21:47 Debra: The short link, tonight, still triggered a 'Threat Warning' from Avast lol   01:21:58 Ambrose Little: stop using Avast   01:22:20 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: 2nd experience with baptism!   01:22:28 Eric Williams: Keeping you busy and out of trouble. ;)   01:22:54 Debra: You're making me want to switch to the East lol  

We continued our reading of step three on Exile. As with so many things said within the Ladder of Divine Ascent, the words of Saint John are jarring. It is not because John seeks to be abrasive or provocative; rather he is presenting us with the Gospel through the lens of the monastic vocation. It is God who embraced exile in the greatest sense through the incarnation. Christ, out of love for the Father  and His will and out of love for us, exiles himself into the depths of humanity and of our sin in order to raise us to new life. Our exile is simply a response to this great gift of love and sacrifice on our behalf. We freely choose to exile ourselves from the things that pulls away from fulfilling the will of God or loving Him unconditionally not because of any hatred for the world or the things of the world. It is the desire for God that guides and shapes our ascetical life and our spiritual disciplines. Outside of the love of God they lack meaning. They are to be a response of humble gratitude for what God has given to us. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:15:53 Cindy Moran: I have no audio   00:22:06 Anthony: I think I finally get your admonishment to read things in context. He can't be talking about withdrawing from a family like St. Basil's 3 generations living in harmony family life and monastic life.   00:34:10 Rachel: Like the ghetto in Sacramento. lol   00:34:29 B K-LEB: this teaching is too hard............   00:34:35 Erick chastain: moved to texas   00:34:45 Erick chastain: God's country   00:34:45 Daniel Allen: I would add that it starts at home with the family   00:34:53 Bonnie Lewis: Wait a minute.  I   00:35:06 Bonnie Lewis: I'm in Texas   00:35:12 Edward Kleinguetl: Welcome to Texas.  I live in Houston, although moving to Toronto in six weeks.   00:36:04 Daniel Allen: Can’t flee to a place and expect everything to be somehow better. There isn’t a real chance to run to something if you don’t have it with you first. Like St Seraphim of Sarov, acquire the spirit of peace.   00:37:19 Erick chastain: thanks deacon Ed!   00:37:42 Erick chastain: agreed Daniel.   00:38:21 Joseph Caro: I wonder if this fleeing into the desert (in the literal, monkish, sense) is becoming increasingly next to impossible for our current western civilization without first a radical severance from cell phones, internet, Facebook, etc. And I am wondering if even the secondary more modest type of detachment can be fully done without first tempering our use of media, internet, etc.. . I don't know though, just my first impression.   00:38:21 Erick chastain: I moved to Texas to work at a catholic university and live near the daily latin mass.   00:38:59 Anthony: Joseph - so much data DOES impede contemplation.   00:39:20 B K-LEB: i agree with you Joseph the internet is an endless void   00:39:36 Edward Kleinguetl: Amen!   00:39:58 Carol Nypaver: 👍🏻 Erick and Joseph!   00:40:29 Ambrose Little, OP: The internet has so much to foster our knowledge of the faith and to connect with other faith-filled persons (like this group). It's a tool. Have to use it wisely.   00:41:28 Dayton S: 👆   00:42:08 Art: Good for you Erick. Is it Univ of Dallas?   00:43:29 Erick chastain: I moved to Texas to work at a catholic university and live near the daily latin mass. Guarding my mind and heart from secular people. Reduced temptations to anger and worldly ambition.   00:44:58 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: In our community a small group of us are living a more contemplative life.  And it has been a very rocky road.  We are not monastic but are called to live the life of our Blessed Mother in the Cenacle.  We do 3 hours of adoration and one of them is at 12am for priest. And another sacrifice is not eating meat in the convent.  Also doing the full Divine Office.  Only time will tell if God will bring us vocations to live this way of life. To try and live a more contemplative life in todays world is a challenge.   00:46:30 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Sister Mary.  May your efforts bear much good fruit!   00:47:20 Ambrose Little, OP: I am reminded of Pope St. John Paul II: Be not afraid! Lead out into the deep. (Duc in altum.)   00:48:04 Anthony: Nassim Nicholas Talib, in "The Bed of Procrustes":  Philosophers walk, they do not run.  He is an Orthodox Christian who takes the spirit of Orthodoxy into his academic/risk analysis/economic work.  He's right.  God is not speaking in urgent panic.  Be a "lover of wisdom."  Walk, and enjoy and contemplate.   00:48:22 Ambrose Little, OP: Lead = duc   00:48:37 iPhone: Chapter 5 of the Letter of Diognetus comes to mind…. Christians are not distinguished from other men by country, language, nor by the customs which they observe. They do not inhabit cities of their own, use a particular way of speaking, nor lead a life marked out by any curiosity. The course of conduct they follow has not been devised by the speculation and deliberation of inquisitive men. The do not, like some, proclaim themselves the advocates of merely human doctrines.   Instead, they inhabit both Greek and barbarian cities, however things have fallen to each of them. And it is while following the customs of the natives in clothing, food, and the rest of ordinary life that they display to us their wonderful and admittedly striking way of life.   They live in their own countries, but they do so as those who are just passing through. As citizens they participate in everything with others, yet they endure everything as if they were foreigners. Every foreign land is like their homeland to them, and every land…   00:48:42 B K-LEB: he's the one (NNT) i once quoted who said "God provides the cure then he allows the problem"   00:52:11 Ashley Kaschl: Daniel, I love that song! 🔥   00:52:22 Sheila Applegate: Great band.   00:53:12 Daniel Allen: I could listen to that album on repeat haha   01:02:41 Ren: The figure of Abraham is a beautiful fleshing out of what we spoke about a couple of groups ago: that this kind of exile is an exile TO not FROM. The figure of Joseph is one that perhaps illustrates a kind of opposite: an exile from, that God works with in order to effect good - an exile that will, in fact, lead to the slavery of the entire people of God. But Abraham embraces exile for the sake of covenant with God and is thus a far superior example.   01:04:48 Anthony: The book of Jasher has a story that Abraham was one of the few righteous worshippers of God among the people around the Tower of Babel, and God called him away.   01:08:05 Anthony: Christ's exile was also out of love.   01:09:13 Ambrose Little, OP: Gotta run. Family thing. God bless.   01:12:03 B K-LEB: love can be very selfish and manipulative st pope b16 said   01:12:23 Bonnie Lewis: This reminds me of Peter leaving the boat to follow Jesus but his attention was diverted and his faith was weakened, and he began to sink.   01:13:47 Ren: Ooo. So hard   01:16:04 Erick chastain: exile is awesome!   01:16:15 Daniel Allen: Hang in there it only gets more uncomfortable haha   01:16:55 Erick chastain: exile is awesome!   01:17:02 B K-LEB: lol   01:17:37 B K-LEB: i am projecting so much angst on fr. david while reading this, i dont want to hear it@@   01:18:05 Carol Nypaver: How do we not seem indifferent while “letting go?”   01:19:08 Lee Graham: A greater understanding of to what God is calling you   01:21:11 B K-LEB: jesus himself sweats blood   01:21:32 Erick chastain: holy suffering vs worldly suffering   01:21:57 Lee Graham: Count it all joy   01:22:14 Daniel Allen: I don’t mean to sanitize this, and I don’t think this doesn’t that, but I keep returning to letting go of our own will. The monk being called to the desert had to abandon his will for comfort, family, and familiarity. But every day we have to let go of our own will and embrace noisy kids and a lack of silence, or work that doesn’t fulfill a personal sense of gaining in what has meaning, and time for oneself. My examples obviously more align with having a lot of small children, but I think that (to me) is the letting go of the will that the monk is also doing.   01:23:42 Daniel Allen: Sorry writing stream of conscious isn’t something I’m good at haha. Glad you could make sense of that rambling paragraph   01:24:12 Cathy Murphy: That is the joy of children.  You must be in the present moment and only love them   01:26:32 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father!!   01:26:37 Iwona Bednarz-Major: Thanks!   01:26:37 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone   01:26:37 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father...good night!   01:26:47 Art: Thank you father and stay cool Pittsburgh  

What a Magnificent group this evening on the Evergetinos. We truly began to see the wisdom of the fathers and how in reality they were the first depth psychologists. They knew the workings of the mind in the heart so well. This evening we discussed how it is that one listens to a spiritual elder and what they offer as counsel. How is it that we discern the truth when we find ourselves still struggling with the same sins or sorrow or worry? Is the advice of the elder ineffective or is it because of our own disposition or of our changing dispositions over the course of time. What we find in the section that we looked at this evening is that the fault often lies within ourselves. The human person is a mystery and we struggle with internal contradictions; we can love and hate our sin at the same time. Therefore, we hear the advice of a spiritual elder in many different ways. Sometimes we only hear partial truths. At other times we do not an act on what the elder told us to do. Or quite simply we have lacked faith in God and the power of His Grace. In their “Science of Sciences” the fathers show us how it is that we are to discern and come to know the workings of our heart as well as the action of God‘s Grace. ---   Text of chat during the group:   00:09:41 Eric Williams: I guess you were more of a Soul Train guy, Father ;)   00:11:52 Eric Williams: Exciting!   00:13:00 Eric Williams: Whereas an hour of cheesy hymns feels like an eternity ;)   00:16:58 Tyler Woloshyn: Glory be Forever!   00:26:44 Anthony: Perhaps this story illustrates the peculiar image in Scripture that God hardens hearts, like in Romans Chapter 9?  All things for Christ, but God permits to each person temptations or struggles which could be for our good but makes it appear God hates them?  Especially when we are previously unmerciful?  Or am I off the mark?   00:29:59 Mark Kelly: The ancient Greeks (before XC) said,” Those that the gods wish to bring down (destroy) they first make great.  Perhaps, because of the Incarnation, we can say, “Those that GOD wishes to make great, He first brings them low.” 00:31:27 Tyler Woloshyn: It reminds me of the verse and humbly to bear one another's burdens (Galatians 6:2)   00:32:09 B K-LEB: St therese said "the spirit blows where it wills"   00:32:27 B K-LEB: when asked about why she thinks God chose her..   00:38:11 Rachel Pineda: I do not think I am being to harsh here that the asceticism spoken of here is sometimes taken as superstitious but in fact when one treats it as such  it is a lack of faith in God's Providential care of each and every soul. Also, a lack of patience. Well, the Father just said better than I.   00:39:05 Anthony: St. Padre Pio ~ If you think I make a mistake, do you think God would?  (different context, but the principle fits.)   00:39:48 Rachel Pineda: LOL   00:39:58 Rachel Pineda: No the Desert Father but okay   00:40:15 Rachel Pineda: I am sure you know better than I   00:41:05 Rachel Pineda: What I am speaking about is the radical conversion that takes place. Even to other faithful it can look weird.   00:41:41 B K-LEB: I heard a man who had dealt with sexual abuse at the church say that "you don't have to heal to be holy". I am wondering your thoughts about this. Is healing necessarily and intrinsically related to holiness?   00:45:14 Rachel Pineda: I think Archbishop Fulton Sheen spoke about that in his talks on confession!   00:48:40 B K-LEB: wow thank u   00:49:09 Rachel Pineda: Yes, Thank you!   00:53:02 Anthony: It seems to me that the grief or pain is often one of the mind or imagination, but the center of the soul is confident in God.  The nagging thought is precisely the fog of thought, and the devil wishes it to descend to the nous - but God Who does not abandon the man allows us to conscously unite out thoughts to the  "crown of thorns" of Christ's crucifixion.   00:56:50 Anthony: Fr. Pavel Florovsku, "Iconostasis", opens with a discussion of dreams and time.   00:56:57 Anthony: Florovsky   00:58:49 Rachel Pineda: WOW!!   01:01:02 B K-LEB: Father you should talk more about this topic many are interested   01:17:42 Anthony: Father, this isn't just a religious topic. It involves the philosophical discipline of epistemlogy (the search for certain truth) - and we Americans are so impoverished in philosophical language and concepts   01:19:38 Eric Williams: Data, data everywhere, and not a thought to think   01:21:10 Carol Nypaver: My daughter once asked a co-worker what he thought about a particular topic.  He said, I haven’t thought about that, let me look it up.  😲   01:21:26 Anthony: It's a form of intoxication.   01:23:01 Debra: Off topic: Asking for prayers for all those effected by the flooding in southern Montana, and Yellowstone park Several rivers flooded; roads and bridges gone  Thank you   01:24:17 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night. God bless!   01:24:37 David Fraley: Good night, everyone!   01:24:55 Rachel Pineda: Goodnight!   01:25:04 Rachel Pineda: Thank you Father and everyone!   01:25:15 sue and mark: good night and God Bless  

We continued this week with step number 3 on Exile. Saint John takes us deeper into the mystery of what it is to live as a Christian within the world. God calls to the heart and desires that we give our love to Him as he has given his love to us.  Ultimately this is the reason why the monks exiled themselves to the desert. It was not to free themselves from the company of others. Rather they separated themselves from all things in order to become inseparable from Christ. Similarly, in our day-to-day life, we exile ourselves from all those things which would cool our devotion for the Lord. We are careful not to turn back to the things that we are attached to knowing that in doing so we are likely to be drawn back to the things of the world. This exile is not hatred. It is the desire to let Christ be the one who teaches us what is good for us. We are to let the virtues, the angels and the Saints, the remembrance of death, contrition, be our family and our friends. These are the things that endure and will support us and our journey toward the kingdom. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:28:02 Rachel: Yep   00:30:37 carolnypaver: Page?   00:30:42 Anthony: carpathian plainchant   00:30:45 Ren: 64   00:30:57 carolnypaver: TY   00:32:19 Rachel: I think it is a way of protecting the other as well as one's own heart. It is not just about outright vulgar immodesty. It is about our minding our gaze. Because we long to gaze at the Face of God. To be able, please God, to see as God sees.   00:47:14 Anthony: In section 12, we are dealing with stymied vocations.  In section 11, we were warned against being self-appointed saviors of the world.  Maybe appointing yourself a savior of the world is like dwelling in the dumps on your sin.  The gaze of the person is turned inward on "look at what I can do / look what I did" and that is harmful to the person and to the world.  It is God Who _gives_ the vocation and the salvation.  The goal of Christian life is a genuine blissful loss of the self-awareness as a branch loses itself in the vine?  If he dwells on his fault, he is consumed with canker; if he boasts of himself, he is consumed with worthless woody growth, not fruit.   00:49:14 carolnypaver: “….delivered them up to their doom?” Please explain this part.   00:49:24 Ren: 12   00:51:44 Debra: Just going to the store in June, is indoctrination :/   00:58:17 Rachel: Yes!   00:58:31 Rachel: Go into your room and pray to God in secret..   01:00:31 Robyn Greco: Thank you Father   01:06:40 Anthony: This is why living in Catholic community is so helpful; our surrounding "culture" is directly contrary to each of the family members he raises here to our attention.  Community reinforcement of Catholic themes is important.   01:16:21 Ren: Though Climacus takes things even farther by assigning familial relations even to the virtues, paragraph 15 reminds me of this writing of St. John Kronstadt: "When you are praying alone, and your spirit is dejected, and you are wearied and oppressed by your loneliness, remember then, as always, that God the Trinity looks upon you with eyes brighter than the sun; also all the angels, your own Guardian Angel, and all the Saints of God. Truly they do; for they are all one in God, and where God is, there are they also. Where the sun is, thither also are directed all its rays." No matter what one’s vocation, it seems a kind of loneliness and isolation in this world is always a part of it, for the Christian, and thus so many of the Fathers give advice seeking out the invisible, heavenly community to combat it.   01:19:36 Ashley Kaschl: I think this detachment is harder than believing that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ 😂😬   01:20:06 Ambrose Little, OP: (Sorry, took a while to write, so I got behind the current topic..)   In my Dominican circles, we often talk about evangelization. It is absolutely crucial, I think all of us can agree, but there is remarkable disagreement on the best way to go about it.    Some folks say that simply “speaking the Truth” is the decisive means to win souls. Others say simple accompaniment. Most know intuitively there is some truth in both, but I find folks keen to argue as if one way is, effectively, the only way, while the other won’t work at all—and they can get quite agitated about it. But it’s a matter of emphasis—different folks have different gifts, and more importantly, we need to be sensitive in each and every situation and listen for the Spirit’s guidance.   01:20:10 Ambrose Little, OP: Folks of “action” pay that lip service, but when pressed, they seem to think we can’t “just” do that. It can’t be “that simple”; they get antsy. Prayer just “isn’t enough.” But I return to the Old Testament—Israel often being a superb type of the individual faith journey. *Every time* Israel (and/or some leader) tried to go on their own, doing what seemed right and wise to them—even with good intentions, it failed, sometimes spectacularly.    I see what seems to be _so much_ damage done in the Church and _to our Christian witness_ by folks who just can’t not “let their light shine,” though it seems to me it’s more of that spectacular failing, because they don’t wait on the Spirit. If they did, then we’d see the fruit of the Spirit made manifest. But more often than not, we don’t.    Waiting on the Lord in prayer, being silent, living in that “exile,” increasingly seems to me to be the Way. Let action, if it is needed, come from that.   01:20:50 Rachel: That is why I put my hand down all the time! I am so behind. :)   01:21:58 Rachel: That is so true.   01:24:36 Eric Williams: Some people embracing brutal honesty are more interested in the brutality than the honesty. That's why my spider sense tingles and I get anxious when some people pontificate about boldly and loudly proclaiming the Faith to secular society. I think a lot more of us should embrace silent and hidden holiness than should attempt evangelization or apologetics.   01:24:56 Eric Williams: (Sorry. Got behind trying to type on my phone.)   01:25:37 Ambrose Little, OP: Much more concise than me, Eric! 🙂   01:25:40 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!   01:25:45 Ryan Schaefer: Thank you!   01:25:47 Rachel: Thank you Father!   01:25:49 kevin: thank you!!!!   01:26:02 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father!   01:26:26 Rachel: 6 am here   01:26:31 Cathy: Prayers   01:26:34 Rachel: 🙏🏼   01:26:39 Eric Williams: It's not often I'm called concise, Ambrose ;)   01:26:39 carolnypaver: We will, Father. God bless you in your transition.   01:26:46 Sheila Applegate: prayers!   01:27:55 Art: Thank you Father!  

Tonight we picked up with Hypothesis 21. One is not to reveal the thoughts of the heart and the mind or one’s temptations to others indiscriminately. Rather, we are to seek out those who have the gift of discernment and experiential knowledge. Only those who are engaged in spiritual warfare, who know their own minds and hearts well can speak to the struggles of others. Much damage can be and has been done by those who set themselves up as teachers of the faith and the spiritual life and yet not living it themselves in any measure. What we are to look for in an elder are the particular gifts of the Spirit that arise from living the gospel fully; humility, repentance, obedience, tenderness gentleness, charity, mercy.  In order for one struggling with their sins and the shame that often accompanies them to find courage to acknowledge them, they need an elder who speaks to them with love; a love that reflects Christ himself. How can we speak of what we do not know? We cannot teach the faith or guide others from a position of power but rather imitate Christ in approaching others in a humble and selfless fashion.   Text of chat during the group:    00:07:57 FrDavid Abernethy: Public   Prayer of St. John Chrysostom before reading spiritual texts.     O Lord Jesus Christ, open Thou the eyes of my heart, that I may hear Thy word and understand and do Thy will, for I am a sojourner upon the earth. Hide not Thy commandments from me, but open mine eyes, that I may perceive the wonders of Thy law. Speak unto me the hidden and secret things of Thy wisdom. On Thee do I set my hope, O my God, that Thou shalt enlighten my mind and understanding with the light of Thy knowledge, not only to cherish those things which are written, but to do them, that in reading the lives and sayings of the Saints I may not sin, but that such may serve for my restoration, enlightenment and sanctification, for the salvation of my soul, and the inheritance of life everlasting; For Thou art the enlightenment of those who lie in darkness, and from Thee cometh every good deed and every gift. Amen.   00:11:04 FrDavid Abernethy: page 170   00:16:56 Tyler Woloshyn: Glory be to Jesus Christ! Good evening everyone.   00:27:02 David Robles: According to the Philokalia the stages of sin/temptation are   00:34:29 Anthony: How do these stages of sin correlate to the Roman distinctions between Imperfections, Venial sins and Mortal Sins?  Or is that too big a topic or a harmful focus on what is evil within us instead of focus on what is good, noble, etc?   00:34:41 Wayne: page?   00:43:25 Josie: "preach and if you have to, speak"   00:56:58 Josie: is there a difference between the evil one hearing the confession of our thoughts in private vs in public? can't he hear them in both cases?   00:57:07 Josie: sorry sent by accident   00:59:28 Anthony: The protection of the mind is maybe the really important problem with social media - as one mindlessly absorbs, one tunes into so many different minds putting themselves out for consumption; it's more indiscriminate than TV since you can get so many channels one right after the other.   01:07:55 Tyler Woloshyn: Some priests are not psychologists nor should pretend to be in the confessional   01:08:23 sue and mark: yup   01:14:26 Josie: so does a confession with a bad priest still give us grace?   01:18:16 Ambrose Little, OP: Yes, if he's ordained and pronounces absolution. Personal qualities don't impede the sacramental grace.   01:28:31 carolnypaver: My question is from section C. What about sharing what we learned in Spiritual direction with one’s spouse, especially concerning children?   01:29:17 carolnypaver: Thank you!   01:29:28 Josie: 1 sec   01:29:31 Josie: typing   01:29:46 Josie: in AA they teach you to tell your story   01:29:51 Josie: to help others heal   01:30:00 Josie: my priest says that's good   01:30:03 Josie: yes   01:34:12 Josie: thank you father!!!!  

We began this evening with Step 3 “On Exile.”The connotation of the word, as we discussed, can lead one to think of punishment or being removed from the things that are needed or loved. However, as we make our way through the step we begin to see that exile is a path to freedom. It is a gradual turning away or separating oneself from the world in order that one might become inseparable from God. At the heart of exile is a deep desire for God; the longing of the heart that leads one to run toward Him as the source of life. The more we begin to see this truth the clearer it becomes to us that we cling to things with a sense of needing them for meaning or purpose. Exile is so important because it removes that illusion. It shows us that so many things that we have had in our lives hold no lasting promise within them. God is to be the beginning and end of all things for us; and exile gives birth to the kind of detachment that allows us to be ever so confident in what He alone can provide. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:14:06 FrDavid Abernethy: page 63, para. #2   00:14:22 David Robles: Dear Father David, Thank you for inviting me to the meeting today. What step and section?   00:14:58 FrDavid Abernethy: page 63 par 2   00:15:02 FrDavid Abernethy: On exile   00:15:21 Robyn Greco: hi , Hope everyone is well   00:15:23 Sheila Applegate: This time the link said it was a malicious link.   00:15:37 Sheila Applegate: But the zoom one works.   00:16:12 Anthony: Do you spray with Copper Sulfate, Vicki?   00:16:14 David Robles: I'm not using your edition. I have the Holy Transfiguration Monastery Edition.   00:16:30 FrDavid Abernethy: Thats the edition we use   00:16:33 FrDavid Abernethy: 2012   00:17:28 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Greetings too!   00:18:07 Joseph Caro: fr   00:18:13 David Robles: Mine is 1991. Second edition   00:18:16 Fr. Miron Kerul-Kmec Jr.: I don’t like being a boss! Haha   00:18:45 Joseph Caro: I have been meaning to thank you for the little book you sent awhile ago, but I keep forgetting!  thank you!   00:19:24 David Robles: Step 4 Obedience starts on page 20.   00:23:43 David Robles: Oh I see Exile. Found it   00:31:27 David Robles: Father, would you agree that the intensity and character of the exile for a lay person, a cenobitic monk or a hermit are different levels? Is there an interior exile that is the same for all?   00:32:29 David Robles: St Isaac the Syrian is pretty radical on this, as it is required of a hermit   00:36:04 Anthony: This keeping the "mind" inseparable from God, is he referring to cogitation, a constant stream of thought, or something else?  Is "mind" more like "nous" or heart or merely presence here?  I'm thinking it's not cogitation, since that can be exhausting and since the Fathers remind us our imaginations can willingly and unwillingly be the playground of evil.   00:39:25 David Robles: Dianoia is rational discourse   00:39:32 Sam Rodriguez: St Paul often talks about Sin and Death as Dominions. Where there is a Dominion of Sin, a Dominion of Death. Or, in other words, that we are born into a Lordship of Sin, a Lordship of Death, by virtue of Original Sin. And thus, to be "Delivered" as a Christian, represents being transferred from one Kingdom to another. To be transferred to the Kingdom where Jesus is Lord. And Has Dominion over our lives. Where our lives no longer belong to ourselves. Our bodies no longer belong to ourselves. They have been ransomed at a price. And thus, I'm wondering if this language of Exile is a restatement of a Deliverance process. Where its not that those things in our lives are bad, but that they require His Lordship in order for the Goodness of those Created things to be Received and Revealed and Shared. Being intentional about how we use our time. Or our phones. Or approach our relationships. That we are actively inviting Him to continually Conquer our attraction to those things, Exercise His Dominion over them.   00:45:35 Bridget McGinley: I recently came across the book The Way of a Pilgrim. I am memorized by his desire for separating himself from the active world to desperately seek the concept of unceasing prayer yet he does not enter a monastery and wanders the earth mixing with others. Unceasing prayer is a commandment from God, correct? This concept of exile seems unloving to the Eastern societies especially in our country where human contact is considered charitable. When we want to separate even from family and friends because they distract us we are sometimes accused of lacking "charity" but it is well understood in the Orthodox cultures that this is a great gift. I relate to what Robyn just said.   00:49:34 Joseph Caro: the idea of exile (separation) to keep us inseparable to God reminds me of marriage , where one keeps themselves from others in order to be in union with ones spouse.   00:52:27 Sam Rodriguez: Regarding what Father shared earlier, saying that we should perhaps genuflect before a newly-Baptized baby.... there's a beautiful story of St Louis IX, the French King. After one of his babies was Baptized, the Saint is reported to have joyfully picked up his baby and gave the baby a kiss, right where the baby's heart was, and exclaimed "Hello, Jesus!"   01:01:49 Ren: There is an interesting reversal at play here. Normally, when we say someone is exiled, it is exile from something/some place - a banishment from the good, the community, the kingdom - and the place of exile does not matter at all. Here, however, exile is an action taken for the sake of something, and the place of exile - that place in which the soul remains unseparated from  God - is the only thing that matters.   01:04:42 Ren: Much the same kind of reversal that turns the barren desert into a place of encounter with Life itself!   01:06:18 Erick chastain: how does exile give place to the demon of sensuality?   01:15:09 Ashley Kaschl: Exile being the mother of detachment makes a lot of sense. While we’ve been talking about exile in a way that it leads to greater intimacy with God, a direct confrontation with the passions, and a renunciation of the world, I learned it the other way around: that, almost by proxy, a choosing of Christ over everything else in the day-to-day life, moment by moment, leads one to be exile by default. Is this the thought of the West, that one winds up in exile through intimacy with Christ, while the East encourages exile to find that intimacy with Christ?   01:18:29 Rachel: YES!! Fantastic points!   01:19:31 Rachel: 🙃 wow   01:20:03 Ashley Kaschl: Great. Thank you, Father!   01:22:47 Anthony: Slavonic. ;)   01:24:08 Ren: Hi baby Orlandi!  

We continued in our reading of the Evergetinos hypothesis 20 on the importance of revealing one’s thoughts to an elder. The struggle in the spiritual life entails letting go of embarrassment and shame that often plague us - in order that we might freely acknowledge our sins or the thoughts that lead to them. The revelation of these thoughts must be received by elders with the greatest care and tenderness. It is both the perseverance of the one struggling and the patience of the caregiver, the elder, that brings healing. Over and over again we are presented with stories of those who overcome their fear of shame and in their freedom to acknowledge their sin come to experience freedom from the sin itself. Therefore, the fathers hold up before us humility, truthful living; bringing all that is within the mind and heart into the light of Christ. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:15:01 FrDavid Abernethy: page 165 number 3   00:37:30 Daniel Allen: What page are we on?   00:37:45 Ambrose Little, OP: 167   00:37:53 Daniel Allen: Thank you   00:42:38 Ambrose Little, OP: Seems like it's less a question of whether this or that father is particularly learned, but that God wants us to seek the guidance of others as an expression of humility and so, through that, will guide us. We may or may not get a "wise" answer, but the actual experience of that humility is in itself instructive and the Spirit will teach us through that.   00:55:10 Ambrose Little, OP: accompaniment 😄   01:11:19 Ambrose Little, OP: it says he “mentioned casually, and with no desire for correction”   01:12:08 Ren: Yea, it does say “mentioned casually, and with no desire for correction,” and that he had no “commitment, or agony of soul,” so I think the ways in which the brothers approach the elder are radically different. Not just a difference of physical tears.   01:12:33 Ren: Ditto Ambrose   01:14:03 Rachel: To me, tears of this sort seems to be a source of scandal for some in the west. Where they are questioned and looked upon as hysterics or a lack of humility, or lack of trust in God;s mercy, and absence of the peace of the Holy Spirit. I don't actually believe there is a problem with the theology of holy repentance in the west, but that it is a misinterpretation of the different manifestations of true repentance in the spiritual life. It is an idea of what repentance must look like. And right now, that seems to be a knee jerk stoic reaction to the nihilist culture we find ourselves surrounded by. The focus by some faithful on keeping it together in a stoic like manner can even encourage and foster an irreverent confession at best because if one is caught crying then, it may be viewed with suspicion.  I do not mean to criticize but only mean to point out the perception I have encountered ( even in myself) that one must have this stoned faced spiritual life coupled with an alloyed joy we pray against.   01:15:35 Rachel: It makes me wonder, when one realizes, as God reveals Hiimself, to one;s own capacity, that they are a child of God, one would not be able to help but have copious tears of repentance.   01:16:58 Ambrose Little, OP: For a long time I was puzzled by the great saints who would belabor their sinfulness, even with many tears. It sorta came across to me as somehow over the top, maybe too much ("extra” as we say these days). But I think what it is is their greater understanding of the perfect love and goodness of God, the good things God wants to bestow upon us, and how even our lesser imperfections cause us to lose out on the fullness of what God wishes to bless us with.   01:18:10 Eric Williams: I suspect that tears of repentance would be regarded as foreign to a sense of "romanitas".   01:18:39 Rachel: Well, when in Rome. Sigh   01:20:13 Eric Williams: I don't say that approvingly. ;)   01:22:21 Rachel: I just want to point out that when one is truly striving, by the grace of God, even and especially tears are brought before the Lord. I mean to say that one doesn't relish in crocodile tears when one truly desires to please God.   01:23:12 Ed Havrilla Jr.: The woman who wept at the feet of Jesus, washing his feet, was forgiven and freed of her sin.   01:25:01 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you!   01:25:01 Rachel: Thank you father and everyone.   01:25:17 Rachel: Yay!   01:25:18 Maple(Hannah) Hong: Thank you!  

Superb group tonight!  Thank you all so much for the wonderful comments and questions on two very challenging steps. Synopsis: We continued this evening reading Step 2 on Detachment and  the beginning of Step 3 on Exile. Saint John makes it very clear to us that detachment from the things of this world and seeing ourselves as living in exile are rooted not in a hatred of the world or of others but rather in our desire for the perfect love of Christ.  Our passions draw us back again and again to the sickness of our sin. Even when we have left many things behind we can feel a very tangible pull back to them. Therefore, St. John tells us that we must embrace Christ with an unconditional and absolute love and devotion; as He has given his love unconditionally and without limit.  All things begin and end with love. Our asceticism, all of our disciplines, must be rooted in this love otherwise we will find ourselves isolated from others and from God. Even the monks who embraced the deepest solitude of the desert understood that they did so as part of the body of Christ; that the embrace of deep solitude and silence brought them to a greater intimacy with every other person and allowed them to see the action of God within the world and creation.  The break from the world of which these first three steps speak is meant to allow us to run freely and swiftly toward Christ, our Beloved. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:11:31 Sharon: When I tried to log into the link at the top of the email, it wouldn’t log in saying that you were in session with Evergetinos. The link at the bottom did work, obviously!   00:12:01 Sharon: Obviously because I’m here! That wasn’t meant to be snarky!   00:14:06 Rachel: me too. PC   00:14:29 Bonnie Lewis: I always have to use the bottom link.  No biggie   00:14:29 Sheila Applegate: mine did not work. android phone.   00:14:33 Debra: Sharon, I got a warning saying the top link was a Threat! Ooooo So I logged in with the bottom link too   00:14:36 Sheila Applegate: said unavailable.   00:21:01 Debra: Our Diocese 'moved' the Ascension to Sunday ::eyeroll::   00:21:23 Ashley Kaschl: Same   00:32:36 Sam Rodriguez: I'm reminded here of a quote by then Cardinal Wojtyla: "Freedom is the means, Love is the end." Our culture often confuses our understanding of Freedom by defining it as "freedom to" (do this or that) as opposed to "Freedom from" (Sin and our appetites, etc). And that we lose sight of the fact that our Freedom is brought to Perfection in Love. And that is it's very purpose. The Saints in Heaven still retain their Freedom. They have Freely chosen Love for all Eternity. And therein lies the relationship between this detachment, this Freedom of Heart, and our Call to Love. It seems to me that one could think of Freedom as *the medium* through which Love travels, just as a wave may travel through a medium. If we seek to grow in Love, it seems that, what's needed, is more to clear the way for Love to Move Within us and Through us, precisely by seeking this Freedom of Heart   00:33:50 Josie: wow   00:34:00 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: double wow!   00:36:24 Debra: Who's going to follow ^^that^^   00:39:44 Anthony: If this life is not for all, but for a comparative few, why is the monastic life presented as "if you want to obey Christ, completely detach and be a monastic?"   00:44:34 Josie: Is it possible that the solitude can lead to a kind of self centeredness perhaps in some kind of people? I understand that the focus on love is the thing that keeps a person safe from the danger, but what is love in this spiritual sense, with very little concrete manifestations (like others to serve or even to forgive) ? Is love in this case a focus on God? Contemplation?   00:44:45 Josie: sorry I hit send by accident   00:51:17 Josie: but it's also not simply a focus on self and becoming  "perfect", right?   00:57:10 Anthony: garlic, leeks   00:57:15 Ren: Cucumbers!   01:08:51 Sam Rodriguez: Regarding this, something I've found helpful to try to be grounded in is this: If it's good, God gets the credit.  I can only take credit for my mistakes. lol   01:15:40 Anthony: Maybe some of the self will and desire to propose oneself as great in an area is a symptom of a demonic attack on a person's worth - a subtle and constant message "you are worthless.   01:21:09 Ashley Kaschl: If this isn’t very coherent....I’m sorry. 😂   01:21:12 Ashley Kaschl: This reminds me of something in “Imitation of Christ” by Thomas á Kempis. That when we suffer, we should remember that we are “on probation” and that we shouldn’t rely on or place our hope in the world, nor seek to justify ourselves to the world who won’t always understand. I think that Catholics, who are on fire for the Lord or who are firmly in their vocations, run up against the temptation to not be misunderstood by the world, to not offend when teaching the Truth. It’s as if the temptation of vain glory today tries to be popular and holy, which is antithetical to the spiritual life.    Anyway, the rest of the quote goes: “It is good for us sometimes to suffer contradiction, to be misjudged by men even though we do well and mean well. These things help us to be humble and shield us from vainglory. When to all outward appearances men give us no credit, when they do not think well of us, then we are more inclined to seek God Who sees our hearts. Therefore, a man ought to root himself so firmly in God that he   01:21:43 Ashley Kaschl: will not need the consolations of men.”   01:22:56 Sam Rodriguez: GREAT points, Ashley   01:26:10 Ambrose Little, OP: There is a flip side of that, too, and I think we have to be careful both ways. We can enjoy being counter-cultural and want to in a sense stick it to the “world” to show just how different we are. In that way, we are risking a kind of pride that we're better and want to show it off by being combative unnecessarily.   01:26:51 Ashley Kaschl: Yes 💯 👆   01:28:10 Rachel: lol   01:29:35 Rachel: Thank you!   01:29:48 Anthony: cookie   01:29:53 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! Good to see you!   01:30:19 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father...great session!   01:30:20 Bonnie Lewis: Thank you Father David. Happy to have class tonight! 01:30:21 Debra: I'm on Brave, with Avast...and Avast thinks the shortl ink is a threat   01:30:23 Cathy: Thank you Father! Prayers   01:30:33 sue and mark: good night and be blessed  

Thanks to everyone who participated in tonight's group on The Evergetinos.  As always it is a privilege and joy to sit at the feet of the Fathers with you. Synopsis: We continue our reading this evening of Hypothesis 20 on the revealing of one’s thoughts to an elders. Again and again we are taught by the Fathers that this is the path to true healing for us. It is when we keep our thoughts secret, when we hide them, when we lie about them, that the devil gains a greater foothold in our lives. We are warned that God is not mocked for he sees all things and into the depths of the heart. So we are to never lie. In humility, we are to seek forgiveness and to acknowledge our thoughts, our temptations, any concerns, our desires, or even simple thoughts to our elders. When we do this our heart is also open to the Grace and action of God. The moment that we acknowledge the truth is the moment a flood of Grace comes upon us.  It is then that the demon is cast out. St Paul tells us: "Take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ." It is our good fortune to have the Fathers to show us the path by which we can do this. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:12:23 FrDavid Abernethy: The Evergetinos   00:12:47 FrDavid Abernethy: Center for Traditional Orthodox Studies   00:14:18 Fr. Miron Jr.: yes we are   00:14:28 Fr. Miron Jr.: she is tired of me   00:14:49 FrDavid Abernethy: page 163   00:15:05 FrDavid Abernethy: Letter D   00:16:14 Debra: Do we need to re-sign up?   00:16:37 Josie: are we allowed to send father questions outside the group?   00:16:48 FrDavid Abernethy: yes   00:16:49 Ren: Philokalia.link/evergetinos_signup   00:17:02 Ren: Philokalia.link/climacus_signup   00:17:22 Josie: how do we reach you father? which email?   00:17:24 Ren: philokaliaministries@gmail.com   00:17:40 FrDavid Abernethy: dabernethy@gmail.com   00:18:13 Sarah Kerul-Kmec: hahaha   00:24:17 Debra: {Not raising my hand...I was shooing my dog away}   00:37:33 joannedavids: This is enlightening.  Very helpful.  Thank you, Fr.   00:44:31 Josie: were the fathers able to distinguish between evil thoughts that came from the evil one and those that came from their own thoughts and hearts? if so how?   00:45:12 Ambrose Little: This was before mass marketing. LOL 😄   00:46:54 Josie: thank you   00:53:12 Ren: The thought presented in the second to last sentence - that telling (thoughts) is equal to rejecting - is really fascinating. Also interesting to think about when they are what you might consider “good thoughts.” By sharing them with the Abba you are showing a willingness to submit all - the good and the bad - to the wisdom of an elder. To reject all for the sake of humility, of truth, and obedience. Sometimes even thoughts that seem very good might not be good for you at the time, or might not actually be good at all.   00:54:35 Josie: it's kiind of beautiful that God made it so that our salvation in interlinked with others in so many ways...   01:11:10 joannedavids: “Can’t see the forest for the trees.”   01:20:22 Ren: Links for the groups:   01:20:24 Ren: Philokalia.link/evergetinos_signup
Philokalia.link/climacus_signup   01:20:43 Ren: Business email: philokaliaministries@gmail.com   01:20:44 Fr. Miron Jr.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNMONMxs61g&t=3467s Fr. Davids Homily 29min