Philokalia Ministries

One participant in this evening‘s group commented that the counsel that St. John gives is eminently practical. This is true of the writings of the fathers as a whole. Their wisdom is rooted in Praxis; the practice of the faith, the exercise of the faith. Their writings seem to make so much sense because they are rooted in experiences that we so often take for granted or fail to explore. What is our motivation for doing or not doing certain things? What is it that drives us or leads us to negligence?  What one begins to see in John’s teaching is the beauty of obedience. Obedience is our capacity to listen to God without any impediment caused by self-will, without our ego blinding us to the truth about ourselves. Setting aside the false self allows us to act with a precious freedom. It cuts through all of our machinations about particular circumstances or responsibilities. It allows us to take up things with love and to see them through the eyes of love. We begin to understand why the fathers, then, speak of loving the virtues. We are to love obedience because it is not something that inhibits us but rather allows our true identity to emerge. It brings healing to our fundamental spiritual sickness as human beings - to put ourselves in the place of God. One of our great weaknesses is that we project our own image on to God and so create the illusion of fidelity.  --- Text of chat during the group: 00:15:23 Marco da Vinha: Good evening from Blighty!   00:19:10 Daniel Allen: I’m sorry where are we at?   00:19:37 Bonnie Lewis: #91   00:20:03 Daniel Allen: Thank you   00:25:26 Ambrose Little, OP: About meditating on what's in the office, part of the purpose of the antiphons and the brief meditation at the start of each psalm/canticle is to give the mind an anchor for that meditation, not too dissimilar from the mysteries in the rosary. Perhaps the antiphons were added after Climacus to help address the challenge of focus during communal psalmody.   00:28:51 Marco da Vinha: Would those be the Gyrovagues St. Benedict (very sparingly) talks about?   00:36:57 Bonnie Lewis: This is so beautifully written.   00:44:38 Daniel Allen: That is SHOCKINGLY practical for parents. I would love to do an all night vigil when my toddler is screaming during the night. But if he sleeps, last thing I’d want is to be woken up. And that same example during the day as well.   00:49:52 Daniel Allen: This makes me think, can God allow things mentioned here such as vain glory, to keep the monk in his cell   00:51:43 Johnny Ross: Interesting that the Evil one first tempted Christ with Bread in the desert   00:53:04 Marco da Vinha: @Johnny Ross: Adam and Eve's Fall was breaking the only rule of fasting He had given them 😅   00:53:27 Daniel Allen: I had a question above about the previous section 96   01:00:50 Daniel Allen: A freedom from one’s own self will   01:01:21 Ashley Kaschl: I haven’t completely finished the article I’m going to mention, but it’s Fr. Freeman’s most recent article about the ego and how we can create a false reality about our state in life and about God, and how we fall into the danger of placing zero boundaries when it comes to our ego - we live an aimless life or a life according to “me” and we can even delude ourselves into being obedient to our idea of what we think is true or what is Godly. I think St. John is talking about something similar if we give ourselves over to despondency instead of humility and diligence.   01:04:23 Johnny Ross: Many have created God in their own image instead of the other way around   01:04:28 Deb Dayton: I think this is the article   https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2022/09/21/boundaries-borders-and-the-true-god/   01:07:05 Ashley Kaschl: I have to run. My service is spotty. Thanks for the great group though!   01:07:52 Marco da Vinha: A bit tangential, but the previous paragraph and comments reminded me of something the painter said in the movie "A Hidden Life". When the main character saw him painting Christ in a chapel and praised him for it, the painter's reply was very interesting - "What we do, is just create... sympathy. We create-- We create admirers. We don't create followers. Christ's life is a demand. You don't want to be reminded of it. So we don't have to see what happens to the truth. A darker time is coming... when men will be more clever. They won't fight the truth, they'll just ignore it. I paint their comfortable Christ, with a halo over his head. How can I show what I haven't lived? Someday I might have the courage to venture, not yet. Someday I'll... I'll paint the true Christ."   01:15:37 Lee Graham: Discern where others are without condemnation   01:16:27 Art: Thank you father.  Good night!   01:16:28 Johnny Ross: Thank You Father   01:16:29 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!   01:16:37 Deiren Masterson: God bless - thanks Father - all   01:16:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!   01:16:39 kevin: thanks   01:16:44 Deb Dayton: Thank you so much  

We began by considering how the fathers of the desert would scrutinize individuals who would come to the monastery seeking entrance. They would put men to the test in every way to see if they had both the psychological and spiritual maturity not simply to make a decision but to persevere in the life and trials of a monk. One does not enter a monastery in a state of perfection. One is perfected through trials and tribulations; through the cross that is particular to one’s life. What stands out in the two stories that we listened to this evening about Saint Theodora and Saint Paul the Simple was the preeminence of two things: desire and humility. Upon entering the Christian life or more specifically the monastic life, one must be driven with a desire for God, a longing for Him and Hie love and to live a God pleasing life. Second to this desire is the virtue of humility. Along with such desire, one must live in the truth; the truth that all things begin and end with God. He alone is the source of our strength. He alone is our hope. It is our ego that most often is the impediment to our putting on the mind of Christ and being conformed to Him by the grace of God. When we no longer see anything but Christ, then we are filled with the desire to do His will. We are willing to endure every hardship for love of Him without grumbling or complaining. Joyfully these individuals sought out this life not to create a false image of themselves but to let go of the false self and to live for Christ alone. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:25:51 Carol: It is hard to understand how it was God’s will that Theodora, and later Paul the Simple, set aside their marriage vows and abandon their spouses.   00:33:44 Bridget McGinley: I love this story. She was amazing. Far from the uttermost coasts is the price of her! What a warrior for Christ.   00:36:31 Carol Nypaver: Did they ever find out she was a woman?   00:38:16 Ambrose Little, OP: I guess someone must have figured it out because we know her as St. Theodora and not St. Theodore. 🙂   00:38:34 Carol Nypaver: 🤣   00:38:47 Debra: 😁   00:39:26 Samar Tabet: Just clarifying: mon at 7:30,i hsve this link Wed at 7:30– whats the link for Wednesday?   00:40:16 Carol Nypaver: https://philokalia.link/climacus   00:46:23 Carol: Heroic meekness   00:48:21 Sheila Applegate: I just chuckled...so much truth.   00:52:18 Carol Nypaver: 60 years old——“elderly?!”😩   00:53:38 Debra: I agree, Carol!   00:54:08 Carol Nypaver: 😭🤣   00:54:13 Bridget McGinley: Esp in women's orders today. After 35 your old!!   00:54:32 Carol Nypaver: Yikes!   00:55:39 Bridget McGinley: 😇   00:56:12 Sheila Applegate: But in another way, why do we feel that way? Does one really know what they want out of life in their 20s? Some, sure. I am 46 and only feel that now I have an inkling of what God wants. What an odd mandate.   00:58:16 Sheila Applegate: We learn how to suffer the more we live. Good for him!   00:59:30 Bridget McGinley: I agree Sheila I think older is better especially these days. I don't know any 20 something person who is really mature these days.   01:02:18 Sheila Applegate: I get the docile part...   01:15:42 Ambrose Little, OP: I love how he basically said to St. Anthony: “Is that all you got??" 😆   01:16:01 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂   01:19:42 Rachel: Thank you!!  

What emerges in reading the fathers is the subtle and yet intense interior battle that takes place within the human heart. We are often men and women of great contradiction. We can love and hate the same thing at the same time. We can create unholy alliances with others whose passions speak to our own and nurture our own. "Like speaks to like." And so we are taught that we should seek the company of those who love and desire God. Even if our experience in this world is one of isolation, if we feel alone in our pursuit of virtue, we should not be filled with any anxiety. One righteous man who does the will of God is better than a multitude of those who disregard the Commandments. As the Scriptures tell us, “from one wise man a city will be replenished.” Furthermore, when it comes to desire, we must keep Christ clearly before us and keep our eyes upon him. If we are simply following the pack, there will be many things that distract us from Him and losing sight of Him we will turn off of the narrow path that leads to Life. Desire and zeal for the Lord must be sought and grow over time. There is no static position within the spiritual life. Our hearts must long for the Beloved and drive us to pursue Him.  The fathers also speak to us about how necessary it is to test this desire, to scrutinize those who, in particular, are pursuing the ascetic life. As Christ counsels us to count the costs, so we see in the fathers a firmness in challenging those who would follow them in the ascetic life. Self-will and self-esteem offer only temporary motivation. It is love alone that endures. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:05:44 Ashley Kaschl: I’m eating fried chicken or is show my face 😂😂   00:16:28 Ashley Kaschl: I love that idea!   00:49:11 Carol: Reminds me of the Song of Songs, he whom my heart loves. I held on to him and   00:49:23 Carol: Would not let him go   00:51:41 Ashley Kaschl: This conversation is bringing to mind a story that a friend told me over the weekend about his missionary work in Ghana, and how this priest told him about a tree native to the region where each tree’s root system mirrors the canopy of that tree. So if you had a tree with a small canopy, the root system would also be small or shallow, the tree not very sturdy, where as a large canopy would indicate a deep and widespread root system, and a sturdy tree. He said that you could always tell the health of this tree by the condition of its canopy.    He reflected that if the roots of our prayer life are sprawling, secure, reaching out deeply in imitation of Christ, and if we are unwavering in our desire to be with Him, then the canopy of our life, the fruit, will mirror those roots. The fruit/canopy will tell of our intimacy with Christ often without having to speak a word. That we can’t help but to reflect the state of our interior lives.   00:55:02 Ashley Kaschl: Also I have to leave 👋 good seeing you all 😁   01:17:56 Rachel: Thank you  

I’ve often thought the Desert Fathers were the first and truest of depth psychologists. Their understanding of the human person, the workings of the mind and the heart, the effects of the emotions, and the workings of the unconscious is unparalleled in anything that we have seen before or sense.  Tonight Saint John Climacus, in a few paragraphs, takes us into those depths. He shows us the extent to which we can become conceited and that a false self can begin to emerge and become solidified. Out of their experience the Fathers came to know the many and varied ways that these things manifest themselves and the spiritual remedies to be applied. Disobedience, our inability to hear the truth and embrace it with love, has an impact on every area of our life and every relationship. It can lead to a kind of passive-aggressiveness that hardens the heart and makes us insensible to the needs of others or their goodness. Even Saint John says that he is amazed at the dexterity that we show in all manner of sin and the diversity of evil that flows from it. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:14:17 FrDavid Abernethy: para 81 page 88   00:14:34 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Hi What page again please   00:14:45 FrDavid Abernethy: page 88   00:14:50 FrDavid Abernethy: para 81   00:15:07 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Thank u   00:15:49 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Good to be here   00:31:39 Johnny Ross: The paradox of true freedom is that it is found in obedience and conformity to our spiritual practice as shown by Christ. True freedom is not being able to do what you want. That is the distortion of modernity.   00:35:19 Carol Nypaver: What if bearing with insults  causes suspicion from one’s boss in the workplace? At what point can we defend ourselves?  Doesn’t justice demand that?   00:37:37 Carol: Like a lamb led to the slaughter, he opened not his mouth   00:38:15 Jeffrey Ott: This seems to align with Evagrius’ conversations on meekness and how courage and patience work together, “the work of courage and patience is to know no fear of enemies and eagerly to endure afflictions.”   00:38:36 Ambrose Little, OP: I wonder if some of the genius is that instead of trying to tackle lust head on, it’s coming at it from a different angle--one that is less associated with bodily desire. The mental desire for respect/high opinion of yourself (pride), though, is similar in that it is also a disordered desire. So if we learn to tame pride by embracing scorn, that exercise can teach us experientially how to tame lust (or other passions).   00:40:58 Cindy Moran: I have known some who have stayed in an abusive marriage saying they a trying to grow in holiness.   00:48:16 Ambrose Little, OP: Not a few saints have embraced significant personal suffering as a way of penance. Do you think it's ever right to endure, for example, an abusive relationship as a form of penance? Or what about an abusive brother in a monastic community?   01:03:07 Johnny Ross: This ego-centric Self is an illusion used by the prince of this world to control us. What about the tension between love thy neighbor as thyself and pick up thy cross and deny thyself. What is this self referred to here?   01:10:26 Ambrose Little, OP: like a small child..   01:15:45 Lee Graham: What is my motive for doing something a certain way? Seek Pure motives as well as purity of heart.   01:18:29 Bonnie Lewis: Father, I'm afraid you cut out.  I didn't hear what you just announced.   01:18:37 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 🙏🏼   01:18:43 Eric Ewanco: yes   01:18:57 Eric Ewanco: (no group next week)   01:18:59 Bonnie Lewis: OK- thank you.   01:19:08 Jeffrey Ott: thank you!   01:19:12 Johnny Ross: Thank you Father, sending prayers   01:19:20 Carol Nypaver: Thank you so much!   01:19:27 Rafael Patrignani: thank you Fr David!   01:19:31 Art: Thank you Father.  Good night   01:19:32 mark cummings: Thank you!!!   01:20:09 Cindy Moran: Excellent session! Thank you Father! Weill be praying for your event.   01:20:18 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father   01:20:20 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you!!   01:20:21 Bonnie Lewis: Amen.  Thank you Father.   01:20:27 Ambrose Little, OP: really liked that flame wax paragraph. great analogy.    

VWhere do we live our lives? Who is God and how do we see ourselves and our own identity in light of the Incarnation? The writings of the Fathers have at their center these basic questions.  So often our tendency is to dissect the faith. We pull things apart -  thinking that we are going to understand them with a greater clarity. Yet in doing so we lose sight of the whole. Can we understand Mystery of God or the other unless we allow ourselves to be drawn into it and what is beyond us. We lose sight of what God has revealed to us about Himself and about love. We lose sight of what that means for us, our identity and what it means to love others.  Whenever we take our eyes off of God and whenever we lose sight of our own poverty and need for mercy, immediately our eyes shift to the others and their flaws. Again and again the fathers tell us that even if we see negligence in others we are not to be scandalized by it. We are not to follow it, but we must not become haughty and judge what we perceive to be mediocrity.  Our focus is to remain on our own hearts and responding to the call to repentance and faith. We are to learn from experience. We must enter into the struggle, the warfare that exists within our own hearts and in our thoughts. Likewise, we are to avoid the things of this world that present us with a false image of life and reality. And most important of all: we are to keep our focus upon He who is Reality, He who is Meaning. It is through Christ and through Christ alone that we find the answers to our questions. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:13:21 FrDavid Abernethy: page 207, paragraph 4   00:20:30 Jack: page?   00:21:12 Ambrose Little, OP: p207, #4   00:36:38 maureencunningham: I just watch the Movie  Man of God.. He was very Holy   00:37:18 maureencunningham: he didi not allow the evil one to get his heart turned away from God   00:42:25 Erick Chastain: What's the balance between focusing only on our own sin to stir repentance and looking at those of others when you will incur sin by saying nothing about the sins of others (e.g. when fraternal correction is obligatory or when there are sins against justice)?   00:50:26 Erick Chastain: are you saying that therefore until there is this preparatory work helping the other carrying their burden, loving them, praying/sacrificing for them, etc fraternal correction is not obligatory under the pain of sin? (if the original desire to engage in fraternal correction was not from a spirit of critical judgment but just the desire to avoid sin?)   00:52:01 Samar Tabet: Can we correct   00:52:12 Samar Tabet: One sec   00:52:15 Samar Tabet: Corrective feedback   00:52:23 Samar Tabet: To priests or   00:52:26 Samar Tabet: Friends   00:52:32 Samar Tabet: Or bishop   00:52:38 Samar Tabet: If not related to sin   00:52:55 Samar Tabet: Letter for example   00:56:29 Carol: ‘If you want to find rest in this life and the next, say at every moment, “who am I?” And judge no one.’ Sayings of the Desert Fathers   01:00:36 Ambrose Little, OP: Your advice is direct from the lips of our Lord: “You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye." (Matt 7:5) Too often we believe we've already removed the beam when we haven’t at all. 01:01:45 Eric Ewanco: Seeing our own faults in another is called "projection"   01:05:28 Ambrose Little, OP: Hey, I love a good shower. :)   01:13:27 Carol: Was it cassian or climacus who also warned against joking?   01:14:34 Erick Chastain: Follow-up to Carol's: St Benedict warned against a certain kind of joking in his rule.    A related quote: "A friend is a second self, so that our consciousness of a friend's existence...makes us more fully conscious of our own existence." -Aristotle   01:15:15 Erick Chastain: (Aristotle)   01:20:28 Anne Barbosa: THANK YOU!  

As we allow ourselves to be drawn deeper into the meaning of obedience by St. John’s writing, we begin to see the beauty of the virtue itself and the fruit that it produces within the soul. It is not a slavishness or weakness of will, but rather a soul that has been awakened to the lack of freedom that comes from self-judgment and that is limited or obscured by sin. The more that the heart is purified by grace and the ascetic life, the more we begin to long for obedience because it is an imitation of our Lord. It is His obedience that has led us all to the freedom of life and love in God. We become the greatest confessors of the faith when we conform ourselves to Him in this fashion. A true spiritual father, then,  is going to guide their spiritual children along this path that treasures humility, stillness, silence and unceasing prayer. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:03:59 FrDavid Abernethy: page 87   00:04:12 FrDavid Abernethy: paragraph 72   00:19:17 Anthony: Thus, we have Vladika David ;)   00:29:25 Anthony: This humility is different than the idea that man is totally depraved but God declares us just. That religious idea can/does lead to self-loathing.  The hopefulness is in the infusion of Grace and Love which God gives us very wounded people.  That is a happy hope in contrast to our weakness and realization of our darkness outside of being attached to the Vine.   00:40:31 Anthony: There is a Bulgarian Orthodox Skete in Palmyra, VA near Charlottesville.   00:47:21 Rachel: They may, by this silence, learn to worship God in the moment. Standing silent before the other and suspending judgment..   00:47:59 Eric Ewanco: how is silence concretely rooted in gentleness and love?   00:48:04 Rachel: May be a way to practice faith and wait patiently for God to reveal Himself   00:51:11 Rachel: I don't think it means that we wont meet with situations where we find others contradicting us, or, when we are actively trying to be silent ourselves contradicting others all day long. So the silence may bring up a lot of uncomfortable contradictions where we learn by necessity, to wait patiently and rely on God in His good providence. It is not an inactive silence   00:52:02 Rachel: Its not rendering oneself dumb   00:53:13 Carol: Like the Blessed Virgin, pondering in one’s heart   00:54:23 Johnny Ross: Isn't this silence related to our Saviors Kenosis? It is an emptying of ourselves. Related also to the Via Negativa?   00:59:24 Anthony: When we are emptied, we want to be filled, to have an identity; but it   01:00:13 Anthony: it's awfully hard to follow Jesus because we can't grasp or contain Him, so we want to build ourselves into an image of what we want to be or should be.   01:01:03 Anthony: the heirs of the maccabees   01:05:52 Rachel: today   01:06:30 Rachel: in whole foods yesterday lol   01:08:28 Johnny Ross: Yes, we face a stark choice today, Either we worship God or we worship ourselves.   01:09:01 Anthony: /because prayer is work?   01:12:34 Bridget McGinley: The Bible states to Pray Always... the theme of The Way of the Pilgrim   01:14:42 Rachel: Instead of stripping oneself of everything that may stand in the way of God. Emptying our hearts can feel uncomfortable. prayer can become like building up a wall. Sort of like coming to God every time in prayer and only making small talk or talking at Him, instead of listening and silencing everything that causes anxiety. A way of controlling the conversation for fear of hearing something that is displeasing.   01:17:02 Carol Nypaver: Saint Augustine ~ “When the word of God increases, human words fail.”   01:17:50 Debra: And how can you tell the difference?   01:18:11 Debra: Between desolation, or being drawn deeper?   01:19:46 Debra: Good points...linger in those moments...see where God is taking us   01:20:39 Rachel: I think St Sophrony and St Silouan speak of this. I wonder is there always a correlation between desolation and being drawn deeper? Almost like suddenly becoming aware in a deeper sense that in ourselves, we lack the capacity to run to Him. To feel His presence   01:21:13 Rachel: So we wait, and stay with Him. St Therese speaks of this too   01:22:33 Anthony: That is what Purgatory is, per Dante.   01:23:01 Anthony: a longing to be free, repaired and pure for love.   01:24:21 Johnny Ross: Thank You Father   01:24:33 Rachel: Thank you Father Thank you evryone   01:24:35 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!!!   01:24:36 Rachel: lol yes  

There is no life without wonder. The life that is given to us in Christ is not something that emerges from our own imagination or judgment; rather it is revealed to us in the cross, in the gospel, and especially in the holy Eucharist. We are drawn into something that is greater than ourselves and on a natural level this cannot be anything but terrifying. The desert fathers present us with the gospel in an unvarnished fashion. Over and over again we are shown how we are to prefer God and seek God above all things; even above those things that seem just, right, and good. The evil one will relentlessly seek to draw us away from the will of God and from the life that he has offered us and pull us back into the mire of sin. This is why we must mortify ourselves; that is, we must die to self and self-will in order to live for Christ and to experience the peace of the kingdom. The path to evil and sin is easy. Everything in this world draws us towards it. It’s only when we repent and turn towards Christ in an absolute fashion do we come to experience freedom - the freedom of sons and daughters of God. Only then do we see ourselves as God sees us. When this happens we lose all fear and anxiety.  Understanding this, we should not be surprised when men turn back to the world. What is more amazing is when we see a man clinging to Christ with heroic love and fidelity.  --- Text of chat during the group: 00:24:47 Anthony: At first it seems harsh, but it is perceptive.  Poimen called Ruler's bluff, and let him look at his own conscience as a mirror for his unjust deed.   00:26:15 Daniel Allen: That story is a lot like how Herod wanted to meet Jesus, but he never sought Him out and was amused and intrigued by him but with no intention to learn from Him. Jesus never went to Herod, until His Passion. This ruler is amused by Poimen and tries to entice Poimen to come to him to fulfill his amusements. And Poimen refused to cater to his petty curiosity and amusements.   00:33:52 Carol: Reminds me of Newman, “one step enough for me”   00:36:00 Anthony: This brings up another question: a good understanding on retirement accounts, pensions, investments, interest/returns and even usury.  It's hard to turn away from predicting the future and money, even trying to be prudent so we are a burden to no one since we are self sufficient. Is this fear, or is investment good, like the parable of talents taken in a literal sense?   00:39:14 Ashley Kaschl: I think we can fall into a false prudence pretty easily, which would translate to self-preservation at all costs.   00:40:52 Ren Witter: Wow - so much is packed into this paragraph. I am particularly struck by the sentence “For He Who promised this does not lie." I am so anxious about the future, but I don't often see my inability to trust as an accusation that the Lord is a liar, but in the end it is. Maybe the way He provides for us is just different from what we imagine being provided for looks like? I can't imagine that he is promising to provide us with all the material securities we believe ourselves in need of.   00:53:57 Kevin Clay: “If you help her, another will come along asking for help…" It seems like ALL the lessons tonight are saying the same thing: If we make an exception, then the exception becomes the rule. Thus we need to save ourselves from the *false* guilt of breaking from the duties of our Christian vocation for others out of need - because there will always be needs - or even our own curiosities to chase ideas and activities. In short, once we make an exception, we become regularly distracted - and potentially eventually completely off course.   01:06:29 Ren Witter: Really, paragraph one is also wonderful advice simply for the sake of our own peace of mind and joy: how much better to be rejoice in virtue and constancy, then to be constantly turning the mind to falls and failures, and being pulled down into the sorrow of them oneself. Better, always, to look to what is a cause of joy.   01:07:46 Lee Graham: “It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.” 2 Peter 2:20-21   01:07:48 Daniel Allen: Could this also be more personal than prophetic? End times as in we live in the end times since the coming of Christ. And that finding 3 people who strive towards God (co strugglers) is of greater value than the security of the group (the thousands).   01:13:05 Carol: Also the Good Samaritan and the man lying in the gutter   01:13:27 Daniel Allen: You’re so correct and it’s terrifying   01:16:19 Sheila Applegate: It is terrifying because we see our smallness and lack of faith in the providence and grace of God.   01:17:22 Sheila Applegate: We prefer to intellectualize and analyze our own way.   01:17:51 Ren Witter: This message is really so extraordinary: we do not want to attend to the poor, because their poverty terrifies us; we do not want to attend to those who are sad, because their sorrow is discomforting; we do not want to attend to the physically or mentally ill, because we can be literally afraid of catching something, or losing our own peace of mind. Evil, and this strange manifestation of it - a preference for the rich, the healthy, the strong - are so much easier. But virtue, and keeping company with the truly blessed - the poor, the meek, the sorrowing - is hard and uncomfortable.   01:18:27 Ren Witter: So compelling. Wow.  

Tonight we continued with our study of Step 4 on Obedience. As we go deeper into St. John’s writing we begin to see the fruit of this virtue that often remains hidden to our eyes. Our obedience fosters habit; in particular the habit of virtue where one acknowledges that God is a fellow laborer. Obedience also shapes the way that we approach the confession of our sins. It allows us to see their gravity, and it fosters within us the deepest sense of compunction. The fruit of this, however, is a repentance the draws us back into the arms of God swiftly and allows us to experience His healing grace. The great virtue also makes us cherish the gift of the Holy Eucharist more fully. We begin to understand how precious this gift is and so desire to protect our minds and our hearts from the greater attacks that often come after receiving our Lord. It also allows us to see that we do not engage in this battle in isolation but rather we march with the first martyr, that is Christ. Through obedience we always have the Divine Physician with us. If we do fall we are immediately aided and healed by his presence. For this reason we must also choose well a competent spiritual physician, an elder who himself has been formed and shaped by this great virtue. For St. John tells us that obedience brings humility and out of this humility is born dispassion. The more that we walk along this path the more we begin to experience the angelic life; that is, we begin to experience the very peace and the joy of the kingdom, God draws us into the very perfection of His Love. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:09:42 FrDavid Abernethy: page 86, para 63   00:14:35 CMoran: I work at WQED so maybe I can run across 5th Ave. for liturgy.   00:14:49 CMoran: Cindy   00:15:46 Anthony: A lot of restraunters and homeschooling families?   00:18:07 Bonnie Lewis: Excellent!   00:20:11 Rachel: Thatsna 10 percent down payment in Cali   00:20:26 Rachel: lol   00:35:38 Marco da Vinha: Though I am a Latin, looking at Forgiveness Sunday just before Lent - the "Tithe of the Year" - brings to mind Mt 5:23-24: "Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift."   00:37:51 Eric Ewanco: It's easier to be humble when we are wrong, especially with those who are humble. It is much harder to be humble when we are right, dealing with those who are prideful and arrogant!   00:46:54 Kevin Clay: What does John mean by the last part: “For it is better to war with pollutions (thoughts) than with conceit.”   00:47:10 Bridget McGinley: What might those additional "spiritual sacrifices" look like after confession?   00:48:25 Rachel: Pride versus thoughts of various kinds that show the wounds of our disloyalty. ride may be more difficult and subtle?   00:49:05 Br Theophan the non-recluse: @kevin if one presumes that they have truly won the spiritual battle, then they fall prey to the sin of conceit, which is worst being engaged in a spiritual battle, as one is then too spiritually blind to see their sinful state   00:49:09 Rachel: Pride* o dear sorry for  the typos   00:50:08 Rachel: ty Brother Theophan   00:52:45 Carol: Theophan said something similar about the time immediately after Communion, to seek solitude and privacy in one’s room to deepen the intimacy of prayer   00:53:48 Eric Ewanco: I believe, Lord, and profess that You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God, come to this world to save sinners, of whom I am the greatest.  I believe also that this is really your spotless body and that this is really your precious blood.  Wherefore I pray to You: have mercy on me and pardon my offenses, the deliberate and the indeliberate, those committed in word and in deed whether knowingly or inadvertently; and count me worthy to share without condemnation your spotless mysteries, for the remission of sins and for eternal life.   Receive me now, O Son of God, as a participant in your mystical supper: for I will not betray your mystery to your enemies, nor give You a kiss like Judas, but like the thief, I confess You: remember me, Lord, in your kingdom.   00:54:06 Marco da Vinha: Father, a bit of a digression, but do you have any idea of when penances to combat the passions stopped being the norm in the West? My own experience in the confessional has always been "pray X/Y/Z" and never any concrete actions to combat the vices I struggle with. And yet I read recently a saintly 16th century Dominican archbishop advising his priests to give penances according the the sins confessed: fasting for sins of gluttony/lust; almsgiving for avarice; prayer for sloth/acedia...   00:55:00 Eric Ewanco: "May the reception of your holy mysteries, Lord, be for me not to judgment or condemnation, but to the healing of (my) soul and body. Amen."   01:00:05 Henry Peresie: St. John Vianney was one of those priests who spent many hours in  the confessional.   01:04:49 Eric Ewanco: I thought "hesychasm" arose a few centuries after John?   01:08:28 Anthony: As David said, something like even his bones groaned.   01:18:08 Rachel: This reminds me of the rich young man who encountered Our Lord Himself and went away sad, not willing to give up his attachments. How he followed all of the commandments in obedience..   01:18:38 Rachel: yet, God is found in His commandments. Or, hidden in His commandments.   01:19:09 Anthony: it makes sense since angels are under obedience and they are in God's happy presence.   01:20:04 Anthony: and here i thought they always were talking about not marrying.  wow.   01:23:11 Rachel: The older copy's introduction is wonderful!   01:24:02 Marco da Vinha: God bless, Father!   01:24:08 CMoran: Thank you Father!!!   01:24:18 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone   01:24:20 Bonnie Lewis: thank you again Father!  Always wonderful.  

A tremendous reflection this evening on the writings of the fathers regarding entanglements with the things of this world. The Evil One acts with great subtlety and the further one progresses in the spiritual life the more subtle these temptations become. Often things can be put before us that seem to be good and holy and worthy of our attention; yet do we respond to them or do we step back and discern whether or not they are from God or the Evil One?  The greatest of temptations can appeal to our religious sensibilities and our desire to help others. Even empathy and sympathy for others in their struggles can be used as a means to distract us from the interior warfare that is raging within us. The fathers tell us that he who wishes to conquer the passions while entangled in worldly concerns is like the man who tries to quench a fire with straw. When we act with no knowledge of ourselves and are blind to the things of God, how is it that we are to give advice to others, to counsel others about the spiritual life or even to seek to give aid to those who are suffering?  What we might be responding to is an emotion that the devil has heightened within us. Often he can appeal to the heart, but in a very dark fashion. His desire is not for the good but rather to lead us into neglect of God. He seeks to draw us into the affairs of others where the mind, not having a deeper knowledge of itself, cannot test its own judgments. It is then that there is the greatest risk of error. When the interior state of the soul is neglected and we begin to accept certain sins into our life, then the smaller sins can even appear to us to be good things and we can boast about them as accomplishments without feeling any remorse. What value then are we going to be to others? What light or source of healing can we be to others if Christ does not dwell within our own hearts? --- Text of chat during the group:  00:08:31 FrDavid Abernethy: page 202   00:08:39 FrDavid Abernethy: second paragraph   00:13:03 Eric Williams: "Here comes trouble." - some parishioners, probably ;)   00:14:18 Eric Williams: Gotta de-latinize that church ;)   00:14:34 Eric Williams: You survived Heinz Chapel   00:15:36 Anthony: There are now small area A/Cs for sale in places like home depot / lowes   00:35:48 renwitter: What are "the spoils of knowledge” that he mentions here?   00:42:31 Anthony: There is maybe another subtle trick of the devils:  to remind a person of an objectively good thing (even if worldly) that one tried to attain, and just could not.  The mind can be flooded with a constant assault of many harmful imaginings and emotions which have power because it is a _good_ thing that one failed to do.    

Tonight we continued our reading of Step 4 on Obedience and its practice in the spiritual life. Saint John, as well as so many of the desert fathers, unearth what we typically keep hidden within our hearts. Rather than living in a spirit of obedience and allowing that obedience to bear the fruit of humility within us by setting aside our own willfulness, we cling to the illusions of self-sufficiency. Despite all that Christ has done and despite all that God has given to us, we believe that we can live with one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom. The humility that obedience fosters teaches us that we cannot externalize or distance ourselves from the evil and the sin of the world. There is a radical solidarity between ourselves and others that demands a constant movement of our heart - repentance. Whenever we see evil or sin, our first movement must be toward God in a cry for mercy and healing. We must humbly lay bare our wound to the physician and without being ashamed say: “It is my wound, father, it is my plague, caused by my own negligence, and, not by anything else. No one is to blame for this, no man, no spirit, no body, nothing but my own carelessness.“  We must allow these words to penetrate our hearts to root out all the excuses we put forward in order to remain in a place of mediocrity. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:17:16 Anthony: Congratulations Fr David!   00:17:24 CMoran: Question: What is Prelest? I off-topic--If not appropriate, please ignore the question.   00:17:53 CMoran: Sorry..."IF"   00:17:58 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: I missed what you said Father  Where are you assigned?   00:18:02 Mark Kelly: Prelest is like a spiritual illusion of ones self.   00:18:18 Edward Kleinguetl: SS Peter & Paul in Duquesne, PA   00:18:20 Eric Ewanco: Prelast is Spiritual deception, I'm sure Father can elaorate   00:21:14 Mark Kelly: Prelest, in the extreme, is seeing one’s self as a prophet or spiritual guide or some exulted person. In common terms it is something we all must deal with. Spiritually deceiving ourselves.   00:53:01 Edward Kleinguetl: A priest once told me in confession that "no reformer ever had bitterness in his heart."   00:53:33 Edward Kleinguetl: And I have to remind myself of that frequently.   00:55:35 Marco da Vinha: What you say, Father, reminds me both of St. Nektarios - who carried out penance for his seminarians faults - as well as St. Bartholomew of Braga - who, as an archbishop, would, on occasion, do penance for his priests' sins.   00:57:14 Ambrose Little, OP: There’s also the observation you (Father) have mentioned many times, which is the challenge of clinging to one's own judgment being perhaps one of the most difficult failures in humility to overcome. It’s always worth meditating on the likely possibility that our own judgment may be in error or, at the very least, that our interpretation of another's words and actions may be in error. (Not talking about glaring and established moral failures like the abuse scandals, but the more common criticisms that this or that pastor is not saying what we’d have them say.)   00:58:37 Anthony: Being one who thinks a LOT - thinking and ruminating too much is not healthy.  Prayer is where the goodness and healing is (at the very least, it's an emotional outlet to get rid of the thoughts), but the devil's fog machine blinds us to its availability.  My parish priest said something in a homily like: we often make our own crosses and they are too heavy; the cross God makes for us is better and easier for us.   01:02:03 Marco da Vinha: @Anthony, I think Dostoevsky put it best in Notes from the Underground when the narrator says "To think too much is a disease." I have found that to be very much the case in my own life   01:09:32 Lee Graham: We are all guilty   01:09:38 Marco da Vinha: Father, is the kind of Confession that the Fathers mention different than the sacrament of Penance as we understand it now in the West? Was this Confession that took place within the elder/disciple relationship? The Fathers tell us to reveal our inner thoughts, our inner wounds in Confession, yet we are brought up in the West with the "just state kind and number" approach to Confession. Many times we don't give the priest much context, and we receive no advice either about our vices, even when the same priest here's our confessions on a regular basis.   01:10:09 Babington (or Babi): It and your comments are very helpful. Thank you.   01:16:00 Bridget McGinley: Father can the evil one enter the confessional and disturb either the priest or the penitent during the confession?   01:19:34 CMoran: Thank you Father! And thank you everyone!   01:19:43 Marco da Vinha: Thank you Father! Goodnight!   01:20:37 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father! Such a grace!