Philokalia Ministries

As a group we read through Saint John’s description of the “Prison”, that place of deep repentance freely entered and embraced by those who had broken their vows and sinned against God.  John holds the image of this place before our eyes in order that it might act as a mirror. Listening to the description and envisioning it within our minds, we are to ask ourselves: Do we see the same kind of sorrow over sin and infidelity in the face of Love? Do we see anything within us of the zeal that these men have for the Lord? Having fallen into the pit of iniquity are we equally willing to sink into the abyss of the humility of the repentant?  We seem perfectly willing to bear the indignity of sin and its tyranny even though we understand that Christ took our flesh upon Himself, made Himself to be sin in order that He might also take upon Himself the consequence of that sin which is death. What is our awareness of that reality and faith revealed to us? Does it pierce the heart? Do we bewail the loss of virtues as if they were children that have died? Do we cry out, where is my purity of prayer? Where is my former boldness? Where the sweet tears instead of the bitter? Where is the hope of perfect chastity and perfect purification? Where is my faith in the shepherd? --- Text of chat during the group:  00:17:46 Anthony: "Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted."   00:25:40 Anthony: Perhaps this mourning is actually the goal of even modern day sentences for fallen religious to retire to a monastery and do penance for great sins?  This sounds like it is for the most serious of sins.   00:32:12 Daniel Allen: This oddly makes me think of Mary holding Jesus when he was taken from the cross. Her Son, all her joy and blessing, now lifeless and in her hands but not there. But awaiting the resurrection   00:39:21 Carol: It reminds me of the Song of Songs, chasing after the Beloved.   00:45:14 Rachel: you touched upon something that I was wondering about. How at the core of a lack of a desire to make reparation to live a penitential life in the acknowledgment of what sin does to us, is a lack of faith in the goodness of God.   00:54:42 Ren: The thought that is coming most to mind, for me, in reading this step is: do I take my sin seriously? Do I really accept the truth about what sin does, and what its “wages” are? - death. That death reenters the world within me with each sin. Or do I take the crucifixion for granted? So far removed from it as a historical event that I am comfortable with what has been done for me? Sadly, I realize that I really do hold sin lightly.   01:00:18 Anthony: The movie "The Professor and the Madman" illustrates this kind of lifelong mourning for a deed - even an evil deed that might not have been done by a madman.   01:00:35 Ashley Kaschl: Love that movie. So true.   01:00:39 Anthony: *might _have_ been done by a madman   01:05:21 Rachel: I want to add to what Ren was touching upon. Many people are uncomfortable with shame, I am speaking of a healthy shame that is the result of real sin. How one can be discouraged by others who are uncomfortable with really entering in to the suffering of another and what bigger suffering is there than sin and its consequences? This is why God became man.   01:08:58 Ashley Kaschl: A priest once helped someone I know to understand penance as a daily thing, not just something you do after confession, especially when he gave that someone a lifelong penance for a sin not connected to murder or something horrifically physical but for a spiritual sin. This priest did not do so as a punishment, and it was in the bounds of not being an unjust burden upon the person, but because the person had been approaching a sin against the Holy Spirit (despair of God’s mercy). So the balm, according to this confession, was a life-long, daily prayer as a penance so that the soul would not be confounded by this temptation. Obviously, this is not the norm these days, but I have met a few people who have such penances, who aren’t murderers or rapists or thieves, etc. But I think it is interesting to ponder.   01:15:11 Babington (or Babi): Thank you. 🙏🏼💔🙏🏼✝️   01:15:28 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂   01:15:37 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father.  

Once again we are presented with the fathers’ writing on asceticism. This evening we were given the essentials, the starting point for the pursuit of the spiritual life; fasting and vigils. We are told that without these practices we enter into the spiritual battle unarmed and no virtue will be gained. We fail to imitate Christ who, before taking up his public ministry, fasted and prayed in the desert for 40 days; precisely to show us what is necessary in the battle against the Enemy who tempted Him at the end of His fasting period. We may feel humiliated and weakened in body but on a spiritual level we come to know the strength and the virtue of Christ himself. Fasting from food and sleep reveals our basic desire for God and an acknowledgment that strength and grace come from Him alone. In all of this we have to have bravery and show great resolve and willingness to continue patiently in doing what is good, ever calling upon God to help and defend us. When we fail, we should not be indifferent or despair or abandon the attempt. Rather, we should increase our zeal and look to the instructions and guidance of the expert; first and foremost Christ himself and then all of the saints throughout the centuries who have conformed themselves to Him. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:34:29 Ren: I must say that, for myself, and though I do not have the opportunity for it anymore, that I have never felt more joy or peace or intimacy in prayer than that which I experienced in vigil adoration. Being someone who struggles with moderation in sleep, its hard to accept, but my own experience has confirmed what the Fathers say so many times over. It really does feel like a whole different kind of prayer. Something about the deep silence and stillness of the night bring us so close to God.   00:39:34 Ambrose Little, OP: It seems like it doesn’t have to be severe, to the point of being unhealthy, but more like discipline in the sense of exercise—limiting within reason, unless we feel God is calling us to do more at times. Like you (Father) have suggested—getting up in early morning for a time of prayer.  On the other hand, for many, in our day at least, we fail on the other side of it—often not getting enough sleep because of lack of discipline in favor of entertainment (for example). In that case, the better exercise might first be to be more disciplined about getting an appropriate amount of sleep, which may better set us up for success in regular prayer as well.   00:40:32 Ren: Oof. So true Ambrose. I’m sleep deprived half the time….and its not because of prayer. More like Frasier, or the Office.   00:41:04 Carol Nypaver: That’s an excellent point!  And—one I can relate to.😳   00:42:26 Anthony: Our modern theory of work is a Puritan tyranny.  We can't take it, it's "dominion" over this world outside of the natural and normal human rhythm.   00:49:31 Anthony: The only way Jesus could have done this (in my opinion) is out of love.  Love is the most powerful reason to put aside even unselfish weakness and even the use of reason "if I don't satisfy myself, I'll go nuts or die."   00:57:34 Anthony: This reminds me of the patristic idea that Jesus was acting as bait, which the devil thought was easy prey.  But the devil was tricked and defeated.  In imitation of Christ, then, we weaken ourselves and -only if? - we are united to the Vine, God desires us to be weakened and thus be a trap in the imitation of Christ.  "My strength is made perfect in weakness."   00:57:51 Anthony: And - is that feeling of being overwhelmed by vile thoughts a sin?   01:06:32 Rachel: If you were going to die tomorrow most would love fasting   01:14:28 Rachel: That is interesting. it reminds me of the saying that he who prays truly is a theologian. If one wishes to truly pray they must do the will of God. The simple thing like ordering all of ones life, everything, to the will of God. Rising, sleeping, eating, praying and everything in between. Why try to control ones thoughts if we cannot control our bellies or lose a little sleep? I am not saying to give up vigilance but to add to it the weapons the holy fathers are speaking of with patience and trust in His providence. A little grandmother hidden away can truly become a theologian this way   01:20:15 Anthony: The Christmas fast has different lengths.  I find the Slavic St. Philip's Fast good but awkward in the Roman Calendar.  Adding fasting to advent or practicing the shorter Melkite Fast could work, too.   01:21:45 Rachel: Wait, has anyones halloween candy ever lasted until Christmas??   01:23:37 Louis: Thank you Fr.!   01:23:52 Rachel: Thank you!   01:23:54 Babington (or Babi): Thank you  

Thank you to everyone who participated tonight in a very challenging reading and discussion of The Ladder of Divine Ascent. Synopsis: Tonight we began Step Five on painstaking repentance and an account of the Prison, another monastic community for those who have broken their vows and embraced a life of deep penance. This is probably the most difficult part of The Ladder to read. It requires the most work from us as readers to think about what John is doing. Why does he present us with such an image? Why paint a portrait of such a place of pain and affliction? Does he not risk losing readers because of the story? What is described is disturbing and meant to be so. For seeing what is so disturbing, our willingness to look at it and the unvarnished truth it present us with, also allows us to grasp its opposite – the invincible joy of knowing and loving Christ. Indeed, the sorrow is part of the joy.  We can only begin to understand St. John’s description of repentance and “the Prison” in light of the Cross itself. We see Christ take upon himself the sin of the world and what it cost him and how he sweat blood in the garden of Gethsemane. These men of the Prison, that place of deep penance, entered into the Paschal mystery so deeply and could see the beauty of it so fully that their mourning and sorrow was a participation in the sorrows of the cross. And the desolation that they experienced was that of Christ himself calling out “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.” We tend to think of things in isolation and our own experiences in isolation from others and from those of Christ. But what we have seen with the fathers over and over again is this kind of radical solidarity that exists between us and that allows us to participate in the redemptive aspects of Christ’s work including the sorrows and darkness of the Cross and the descent into Hell.  “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” Galatians 2:20. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:12:41 FrDavid Abernethy: Beginning Step 5 on page 97   00:33:32 Eric Ewanco: I've heard it said that the first sin involved eating which is why fasting is so important   00:47:59 Ashley Kaschl: In paragraph 7, that seems like a debilitating shame, how would one break free from that?   00:52:13 Cathy Murphy: The last sentence in paragraph 7 is challenging.  If they are full of sorrow and repentant how are their souls offering nothing to God?   00:58:13 Ambrose Little, OP: I find it difficult to reconcile what appears to be dwelling in sorrow with confidence in God’s work in our lives and the lives of others. If the promises are true, then it seems like we should mostly dwell in joy and gratitude as penitents.   01:17:33 Mary M: I might be off because I missed the reading itself, but it seems like one of those Catholic principles held in tension together, where it's "both and" rather than "either or." It's neither despair over the depth of the gravity of sin nor presumption on the mercy of God, but simultaneously the deepest sorrow and joy in light of the reality of our sin and God's mercy.   01:25:26 Ambrose Little, OP: Seeing it as a mirror of the effects of sin (a kind of picture of hell) is helpful to me.   01:34:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you 🙂   01:34:12 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you so much! Great to be with you all.  

We began hypothesis 28 this evening. I have to say that it is one of the clearest and most straightforward explanations and discussion of the ascetical life. What comes forward through the fathers’ teaching is not only the necessity of asceticism, of striving for God and for the life of virtue, but also the beauty that one begins to see and the sweetness of the life of virtue that one begins to taste. The ascetic life is indeed filled with toil and sweat. However, it is not simply a test of endurance. The Christian has set before his eyes the Beloved and the promises He holds out before us of intimacy with Him and the experience of the joy of the kingdom.  There are so many things that create a resistance within us to this kind of striving. Laziness and negligence can easily take over when that desire for God grows cold and when our hearts become indifferent to the blessings that He offers us as well as the consolation that comes from fidelity to His commandments. We must, the fathers tell us, have a good beginning. In fact, Abba Isaac tells us if we want to begin a Godly work, we must first give a promise to God that we will not live for the present life and that we will be prepared to die rather than sacrifice what is pleasing to Him. Hope for the present life ennervates the mind and does not allow us to make any progress. We must be clear in our purpose. The love of Christ must compel us. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:19:10 Anthony: EXACTLY:  We need a vision to love to make this irksome asceticism worthwhile. 00:23:58 Carol Nypaver: St. Josemaria Escriva called it “the heroic minute” when the alarm goes off in the morning. 00:29:37 Anthony: Is there some kind of hoe or spade available to cut thorns out without cutting our hands? 00:31:56 Lee Graham: In Therapy, ice water is used to help people stop cutting. They are told that whenever they get the urge to cut, to place their arm in ice water. 00:33:34 Lee Graham: Releases endorphins as does the cutting 00:42:07 Anthony: That is a Stoic understanding of asceticism.  They have nothing to love. And with our formerly Catholic culture stripped of beauty to become a Puritan existence, our positive asceticism for the beatific vision becomes mere endurance 00:57:00 Carol Nypaver: Please explain “casting oneself into the sea of afflictions.”  Seeking out afflictions? 01:07:55 Denise T. : As a mom of many children how do I maintain an indifference to all earthly things? What does that look like? I have a hard time with that concept.  01:09:33 Ashley Kaschl: Anecdotally, the parts of this concerning toiling and knowing without praxis, has me thinking about a period of aridity I was experiencing some time ago. Adoration is usually where I spend my time when this happens and I was so tired when I finally managed to get there one day that I assumed a position that I knew I could remain reverent in for a long time without growing weary of it, where I could remain still and quiet because interiorly I was anything but.  I asked the Lord why it was so hard to pray, why it was so hard hear Him, and why I was so restless all the time. And after a while, the answer came very clearly, accompanied by all the extra things I had taken on because of my restlessness and because of my lack of trust in Him, and He reminded me that, “I am a jealous God.” I think I’m very prone to forgetting this, that when the Lord has invited one along the narrow path, we are not supposed to pick up extra burdens, tasks, or to take up other paths when there is a storm when in reality the Lord 01:10:42 Ashley Kaschl: is only asking me to take shelter and not to deviate. 01:11:35 Ambrose Little, OP: @Denise, with regards to your comment above, I tend to think that part of our service to and love of God in this life, as parents, is to love our children--to seek their good selflessly. To use the things of this world in service of others, we can be personally indifferent while understanding how they are means to express that love. 01:15:18 Denise T. : Thank you, Father. That is helpful to me. 

We are called to be conformed to Christ. How easy it is to say such a thing. Yet, so often, our understanding of faith, obedience, humility, and charity is defined within the narrow limits of human reason and understanding. We grow very uncomfortable with what is undefined or what lacks boundaries. Allowing our souls to be stretched by faith, to be drawn along by wonder and led by the Spirit can feel terrifyingly vulnerable. The ego is most often the center of our existence. To let go of the false-self and to seek one’s identity and dignity in Christ is challenging to say the least. In fact, only God can bring us to such a place. Our striving, our ascetical life, our responsiveness to the grace of God is important. Yet in the end it is God alone who can purify the heart and who can open our eyes through the gift of faith to see the beauty of self-sacrificing love and obedience. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:10:26 FrDavid Abernethy: page 95 para 114   00:26:40 Ashley Kaschl: Was just about to say…Reminds me of how Christ was silent before His accusers during the Passion   00:28:23 Cindy Moran: This over-sensitivity is called taking umbrage.   00:31:55 Ren: (Concerning paragraph 116). Something that is coming to mind is that, in doing this, I could easily see a danger of becoming resentful for silently accepting abuse, and then following it with an apology - and one that might not be all that sincere. How would we do this, without allowing a spirit of anger to take root?   00:33:10 Anthony: Gluttony had an extra connotation at the time, since food and wine or beer was more scarce, took more work, was more tied to the seasons and was therefore more precious, and eating too much is a wound on other people who by right had a share in the common food.  It's not like John could drive over to the Kroger and buy Boars Head cold cuts at will if someone ate too much.   00:43:14 Daniel Allen: I think resentment also comes when one thinks one is unjustly accused or put down, when in reality what tends to confront us is more true (in one way or another) than we want to admit. And when it may not be a fair accusation on the surface, in one way or another it is likely true. When we realize our own sin put to death God Himself, what accusation could be false? How could distinction still matter. And when it’s still difficult then what St. Philip Neri said can always apply, there except for the grace of God go I? Remembering one’s own sinfulness makes this easy. Forgetting it makes it excruciating to bear.   00:50:02 Rachel: yep   00:50:40 Johnny Ross: The gap between ought and is represents a fundamental dichotomy in our identity. Isn't unity the ultimate trajectory of our walk in Christ. Individual unity, unity with the Church and, ultimately, Unity with God.   00:53:00 Rachel: You touched upon something I have been wondering about and that is how we find the ego everywhere. Where one has to really discern how one or, why, what motivates one to follow Christ. If at all!   00:53:35 Rachel: And I think this is where patience comes in to support one in the spiritual life   00:54:11 iPhone: I heard a sermon on Sunday in which the priest told about his struggle w/ anger & his spiritual director encouraged him to continue in his prayer over time…suggesting to him that he was lacking courage when he wished to give up the struggle.  The struggle took a full year — patience & courage.   00:54:23 Rachel: We must patiently, with love wait for Christ to reveal himself to us, in a way that He chooses to reveal Himseld.   00:57:31 Rachel: lol   01:17:27 Ashley Kaschl: My app updated and I don’t know how to raise my hand so sorry this is past time 😂   01:17:30 Ashley Kaschl: The end of Gaudium et Spes paragraph 24 comes to mind when I think of what we’ve talked about in regards to obedience and conforming oneself to Christ, that “man cannot find himself except through a sincere gift of self.” And I think it takes an extreme amount of grace and trust to get to a place of vulnerable docility to the Holy Spirit. Vulnerability, I think, has the root of Vulnera, which means “being open to a wounding” and it makes sense that this would be required if every soul who wishes to be a saint.   01:18:29 Art: Gotta run.  Thank you and good night all.   01:20:30 Rachel: When the illusions are stripped away there is nothing but our Lord to cling  but they cant pull themselves up and they linger on the brink of madness or what looks like madness from love.   01:20:59 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: I can only agree after living over 50 years in and under obedience. It is costly to one's ego in a healing way if one cooperates, dies to self-will. And it is such a protection for one's life - it's often kept me out of trouble!   01:21:24 Rachel: Thank you Sister!   01:22:26 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!! Always a joy to be with y'all.   01:22:29 Rachel: Thank you   01:22:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you   01:22:38 Rebecca Thérèse: 🙂   01:22:43 Cindy Moran: Thank you Fr Abernethy!  

Great group tonight folks and wonderful comments! Synopsis: The gentleness of God, the subtle workings of the Holy Spirit, the influence of the angels in our lives and the importance of gratitude - all of these things come forward in hypothesis 27 to strengthen us in the spiritual battle and to illuminate the path ahead. Life so often weighs us down. We feel the burden of ourselves most keenly and we can become jaded in the way that we view life, the world and God. Despite God making Himself a slave, a servant in order to lift us up out of our sin, despite his giving Himself to us, filling us with his life in love in the Eucharist and by the gift of the Spirit - we can become weary of life and weaken in terms of our capacity to hold on and hope.  In our own lives we must strive to understand that God is always working and active through His spirit of love. Despite the darkness that we struggle with and sometimes our lack of faith God never abandons us for a moment. From our perspective we must also understand that He never abandons others even when we see them falling into great darkness. God can choose individuals as vessels of election and through them He can do wonderful things. Our own incapacity to see clearly often makes us project onto God that same inability.  Finally, we have a responsibility to each other. We must allow ourselves to enter into the sufferings of others, to see the darkness that they struggle with and be willing to take them by the hand and to remain with them even when they find the presence of others agitating and unwanted. For this is the love of Christ. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:10:36 David Fraley: Hello Father. I’m sorry I haven’t been around. I got a new job and I work most evenings. I’ve been following through the podcast.   00:10:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 229 Hypothesis XXVII   00:11:03 FrDavid Abernethy: Welcome back Dave   00:11:18 FrDavid Abernethy: no worries.   always glad to have you join us   00:19:28 Cindy Moran: Awww...you won't have any mice!   00:20:42 Debra: A kitty would be easier to have than a Great Pyrenees lol   00:23:26 Anthony: This account of Makarios sounds like the Russian Orthodox film "Ostrov" (Island).   00:24:48 carolnypaver: I thought of that also, Anthony. Except that he didn’t actually kill his captain in The Island.   00:27:42 Eric Ewanco: "Oh happy fault"   00:41:33 Rachel: Like becoming drunk with consolations. Being suddenly overcome by Love.   00:46:23 Anthony: This love borne of gratitude seems to me a lot better motivation to serve God than another alternative I heard, that the better you serve God, the higher the place in Heaven you get.   00:48:31 Lee Graham: The riches and pleasures of this world distract us from working in the fields of God. The harvest is plenty but the workers are few.   00:51:41 Lee Graham: He chooses to be magnanimous to everyone! 00:52:34 Lee Graham: He loves none of us more or less than the others.   00:57:46 Anthony: St. John of Damascus says something like penance is turning from what is unnatural to what if [created to be] natural.  We focus a lot on numbers, quantity, rules of life - which are good, but I prefer the  "Franciscan" happiness and freedom as a model of repentance.  "The glory of God is man fully alive" says Irenaeus, I think.   00:58:46 Ambrose Little, OP: Fear is very temporary and fleeting and limited. Gratitude and love are much more steady and reliable and have no upper bound.   00:59:05 Debra: ❤️   01:06:31 Anthony: This is a bit like "The Idiot" by Dostoevsky.   01:10:09 Debra: If anyone is interested... https://stpeterorthodoxchurch.com/the-meaning-of-dostoevskys-beauty-will-save-the-world/   01:10:16 Rachel: Wow, thank you Anthony. I had heard about that book yet, the protagonist was described in a different manner. I would really like to read that novel.   01:11:46 Anthony: You are welcome, Rachel.  It's been several years, I hope I described him and the story well.   01:19:58 Ambrose Little, OP: If we live long enough, probably most of us are both slaves at different times.   01:21:13 Debra: I'm the napper, right now, it seems like 01:25:46 Ambrose Little, OP: "mean Jesus" 🙂   01:27:36 Ambrose Little, OP: Gotta get out of yourself sometimes..   01:29:58 Rachel: Thank you!   01:30:00 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! 😁🙏   01:30:01 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!  

The unvarnished truth is not easy to hear or see. This is especially true when it reveals that which is within our own heart or what is lacking in our love or our faith.  Saint John Climacus gives us many stories from the lives of monks who live obedience to the point where it surpasses reason and right judgment; or when it seems to reach the point of absurdity. And indeed this is how the world sees Christianity and in its truest form; as foolishness and a stumbling block. In so many ways we have domesticated the gospel and the Christian life. What we bear witness to is the love of the kingdom made manifest in Christ and the cross.  We let go of self-will and self-identity in order to put on the true self that is found only in Christ. We are sons and daughters of God and our identity is to be shaped by this reality. All that we do must begin and end with God otherwise it is vanity. When reading the fathers we are compelled to ask ourselves, “Who am I?“Who is Christ to me?” --- Text of chat during the group:  00:15:07 FrDavid Abernethy: page 92 para 110   00:16:56 Bonnie Lewis: Do tell.   00:17:45 Bonnie Lewis: your room is looking nice   00:18:33 Eric Ewanco: you do have a euphonious voice   00:25:08 Br Theophan the non-recluse: What page #? I was totally spaced out when Fr David announced it😀   00:27:18 Bonnie Lewis: 92, para 110   00:28:02 Br Theophan the non-recluse: Thanks!   00:32:59 Anthony: Trisagion Films had one film - I think it was about St. Joseph the Heychast - who was impelled to leave an unkind elder, after enduring for a while.   00:35:39 Rachel: I am amazed about how Acacius doesnt draw attention to his suffering but simply states what has happened when asked. It is a clear example of how obedience leads to humility   00:37:21 Eric Ewanco: mine says "fool" instead of "blockhead"   00:38:40 Carol Nypaver: Ours is the Charlie Brown translation.🤣   00:38:59 Anthony: So much for Italian grandmas as elders....   00:39:51 Eric Ewanco: Is this a representation of the idea of Purgatory, that there is debt from our sin that we need to suffer to resolve?   00:42:27 Anthony: 38 years   00:46:30 Eric Ewanco: Xenia?   00:46:55 Anthony: Basil of Moscow, Way of the Pilgrim Author, St. Francis of Assisi   00:47:58 Anthony: Andrew the Charcoal-burner   00:48:27 Rachel: St Benedic Labre   00:50:07 Eric Ewanco: https://orthodoxwiki.org/Fool-for-Christ   00:54:09 John Cruz: Are there contemporary fools for Christ?  Is this a charism for even our times?   00:54:32 Rachel: What??Noooo   00:54:39 Rachel: lol oh dear   00:54:48 John Cruz: LOL   01:04:02 Anthony: Religious communities don;t need to be formally approved; people can just have their own informal community, no?   01:11:12 Ambrose Little, OP: There are benefits of being in a recognized/authorized community, though.   01:15:23 Johnny Ross: We must embrace the scars of this battle-the obstacle is the way   01:22:04 Anthony: John Cruz wanted to know if there are contemporary Fools for Christ.   01:22:56 Johnny Ross: Thank u Father   01:23:00 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!!   01:23:08 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone   01:23:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you   01:23:15 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father.  

Scrutinizing the movements of the mind and the heart is never an easy thing to do. In fact we find ever more clever ways to avoid doing so. Truthful living, a willingness to acknowledge one’s failings and communicate them to a spiritual guide is put before for us by the fathers as a path that we should desire. It is not meant to punish us or to humiliate us, but rather to free us in our capacity to love God and to give ourselves to Him. We see in this hypothesis how deep this kind of observation penetrates into the thoughts and actions of an individual. Spiritual fathers have the responsibility to aid their children and help them to internalize this process and to ask themselves honestly whether they love and desire Christ above all things. How often and how easily we are moved by our own self-will. We can drag our feet when it comes to doing something that we to which we have an aversion or where we feel that we have something to do that is more important or pressing. It is far more difficult to allow ourselves to be moved by the Spirit of Love. The greatest acts of love are often those that go unnoticed or are rooted in the fulfillment of the simplest of duties. To take up responsibility without grumbling or to respond with immediacy to the need of another is what God sees and values. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:25:30 Anthony: One can take this passage and read it into the early chapters of the Acts of the Apostles.  Was it a kind of monastic community, and Ananias and Sapphira tries to enter the community but remain in the world, holding some of their own possessions?   00:31:34 Rachel: How old were the Apostles when Christ called them?   00:46:38 Anthony: "They" say you die as you have lived.  I suppose then that Jesus' "Into Thy hands I commend My spirit." indicates He perfected this emptiness of self as He lived.   00:53:26 Eric Ewanco: "Grasps another's hand ostentatiously"? What does that mean?   01:23:34 Rachel: The fact that they scrutenize is consoling   01:24:23 Rachel: Thank you!  

“Put out into the deep.”As we picked up with the Saint John’s writing on the spirit and practice of obedience the path set before us becomes ever so clear. We are called to be conformed to Christ. He is the standard by which we measure our lives and see what we have become in and through Him. We are to love obedience not because it brings satisfaction and joy in this world or because the things that happen to us or are asked of us conform to reason or our natural sensibilities. The fruit of obedience is humility; truthful living. It is living in accord with the truth of the kingdom that is revealed to us in and through the gift of faith. Obedience acts as that furnace of humiliation; it strips away from us the illusion of right judgment according to our own standards. What we are offered is so much more. Saint John quotes the great Cassian and tells us that humility gives rise to true discernment and out of true discernment comes clairvoyance and foreknowledge. We begin to see things, by the grace of God, through the eyes of Christ and in accord with the wisdom of the kingdom. What in this life should we desire more than this? Why do we find ourselves running back again and again simply to satisfy our own will and to manage our own life in a way that brings us fleeting happiness?  We are promised the joy of the kingdom and participation in the perfect love of God. This is not something that we can put on and take off as we do a garment. This is our identity and it must shape everything in our lives and in our hearts. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:11:38 Ren: Thanks Lori! I would have my camera on, but I’m drying my hair :-D   00:16:24 Cindy Moran: How was the mini retreat last Saturday?   00:16:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 91   00:17:27 Miron Kerul Kmec: https://lifegivingspringspodcast.podbean.com/   00:17:27 Cindy Moran: Great!! Working in TV for 42 years...I needed it!   00:25:01 Eric Ewanco: wormwood/honey: This is a hard saying!   00:31:42 Eric Ewanco: Can we apply this principle to the current situation in the Church with +Francis?   00:45:42 Ambrose Little, OP: Following on from #104, it seems to me it's not really obedience if you agree with the direction you’re given--then you're effectively still just following your own will and mind. It’s when you are directed to something that you don't currently agree with or don't understand fully that it takes obedience, at least as a practical virtue. This is where the rubber meets the road, as it were, with regards to one’s bishop and the Holy Father--or one's own spiritual director.   00:51:54 Ambrose Little, OP: That's obedience to the rubrics. 🙂   00:53:34 Cathy Murphy: Music and signing effect a different part of the brain and creates a different experience   00:55:01 Rachel: LOL   00:55:40 Anthony: There's something in the Imitation of Christ, like: "There are so many difficult things in the Bible, sometimes it's best not to think too much if you can't understand."  It applies to a lot of Christian life.  Thinking too much and forcing understanding can be a self-inflicted wound.   00:58:52 Johnny Ross: This is a process of isolation since most people do not understand or appreciate any of this.   01:00:14 Eric Ewanco: my translation has insight instead of clarivoyance   01:00:59 Anthony: Padre Pio and violets   01:04:36 Ren: I can’t even imagine being perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. I would have to become a totally different person. I’m sure that’s the point 😄   01:07:32 Ren: Its so hard…I’m sure when we are told to “put on Christ” we are meant to do so in the way a graft is put on - so very closely and permanently. Instead, putting on Christ for me is at the most like putting on a coat that quickly becomes too hot or uncomfortable - or unneeded - and is tossed aside.   01:07:33 Mark Cummings: It reinforces that I need to pray the prayer “I believe, help my unbelief” very very often   01:07:58 Anthony: This is amazing.  The idea "be perfect," even in the relationship to examining conscience is something that can be crushing....but the blossoming flower of hope in God is something else entirely.  This hope something happy, even knowing a person is a sinner, and I wish this hope were emphasized more in the relationship to examining conscience.   01:12:58 Johnny Ross: Optionality is the Grand illusion. We are inundated with choices in this consumer driven culture yet the way is narrow   01:14:56 Johnny Ross: Thank You   01:19:51 Eric Ewanco: I like the term "spiritual warfare". :-)   01:22:15 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: "Give thanks in all things..."   01:22:17 Rachel: Thank you!   01:22:21 Johnny Ross: Great as usual, Thanks Father   01:23:01 Johnny Ross: Amen   01:23:02 Bridget McGinley: Thank you   01:23:05 Rachel: Have a beautiful retreat!!   01:23:08 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you   01:23:14 Rachel: Thank you Ren!!   01:23:28 Art: Great job Ren!!   01:23:29 kevin: thanks renz!   01:23:31 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: thank you   01:23:33 Lori Hatala: very user friendly   01:23:34 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father...great session!   01:23:37 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: address   01:23:46 Cindy Moran: Thank you Ren!   01:23:48 Hannah Hong: Thank you   01:23:54 sue and mark: good night and God bless you and everyone.  have a blessed retreat   01:24:00 kevin: thanks everyone  

It is as if we are sitting at the well, drinking deeply of that life-giving water. The fathers’ writings on the spiritual life speak to the soul in such a deep fashion that it gives rise to an insatiable desire for God. It is the willingness to do exactly what the fathers instruct in this hypothesis in our own way that will bear fruit. They call those entering the monastic life to look deeply into their hearts to see if they have there a desire for God; a desire strong enough to carry them to the end. We do our souls a disservice, they tell us, when we fail to present the challenge and the responsibility of the Christian life in an unvarnished fashion.  We are called to set aside self-will in whatever station we find ourselves in this world. We are to live for God and by his grace, always serving him and one another in a spirit of humility. We are called quite frankly to be foolish in the eyes of the world.  We are called to embrace a voluntary slavery not for the sake of earthly riches or for the sake of and earthly king.  We let go of our self-will in order to follow He who promises us everything. Our Beloved calls out to us, “Follow Me”.  Is there the desire, the longing and the humility within us to draw us along that path? --- Text of chat during the group: 00:22:11 Anthony: Rule of St Pachomius was a predecessor of St Seraphim Sarovsky's prayer rule, no?   00:36:03 Anthony: I think the devils attack and discourage in precisely those areas they perceive we are intended to grow holy.  It is a weariness, and it shows how maliciously nasty the devils are.   00:39:35 Bridget McGinley: How does one recharge after endless warfare? How do we know if it is temptation from the evil one or a trial from God?   00:56:17 Anthony: In Syria, St. Ephrem's (& Isaac's) home, the consecrated life was not necessarily just for the unmarried, but they also lived in or among larger communities that contained families or singles not taking vows.  Does Ephrem ever distinguish whether his advice is for the cloistered or for the people who live in non-vowed communities around the monastics?   00:57:55 Rachel: Yes!!   00:59:09 Denise T. : How important is it to have a mentor in the spiritual life he talks of? And how do you find one to help you navigate the life? What would you look for?   01:01:49 Ambrose Little, OP: One thing I find challenging is the council given--complete abasement, because that is not acceptable in the world, for those who must put themselves forward as competent in their chosen profession. It's not that we can't practice humility at all, but it is a balancing act between reassuring those who pay us that we actually do know things and are actually good at doing what we are asking to be paid for—and at the same time doing our best to practice humility in the eyes of God and being open to humiliation as is counseled in these readings (much less to seek that out). This is doubly hard when you need to get a new job, promotion, raise, get a new client, etc.—you have to put forward your best foot and "sell" yourself. I can see why they also counsel leaving the world entirely to achieve this perfection. 🙂   01:06:26 Ambrose Little, OP: On the note of finding spiritual guidance, these meetings (The Evergetinos and Climacus) are very good for ongoing, living guidance with the Fathers.   01:06:46 Ambrose Little, OP: life-giving, too! 🙂 01:07:06 Rodrigo Castillo: I would come   01:07:12 Paul: +1   01:07:35 Debra: Exactly, Ambrose   01:07:38 Ambrose Little, OP: I don't think my wife and kids would love that--for me to come _every_ night. But I would benefit!   01:08:01 Denise T. : I have come to 3 so far and look forward to Monday nights!   01:08:57 Rachel: WAS That me??? LOL   01:09:13 Ambrose Little, OP: Now we know you thought it! LOL   01:09:32 Anthony: Going to these groups is like the young monk (John the Dwarf?) instructed to wash a pot in oil multiple times, and then he saw the value of the continual washing in oi - the pot was gradually cleaned..   01:10:56 Rachel: Yes, but, I very quickly leanred to love going at this slow contemplative pace. So much so that my kids and I love listening this way and cant imagine going through the readings at lightening pace. Thanks be to God! Sorry Father   01:18:52 Anthony: These are religious people who are not professionals,  I like that.  It feels good to learn from them.   01:20:20 Rachel: Wow!! Thank you Ren!!   01:20:22 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!! Thank you, Ren!!   01:20:30 Kenneth: Thank you Ren   01:21:05 Jim and Joyce Walsh: thanks Ren!   01:21:50 Rachel: Thank you   01:22:08 Lee Graham: Thanks