Philokalia Ministries

We are called to be conformed to Christ. How easy it is to say such a thing. Yet, so often, our understanding of faith, obedience, humility, and charity is defined within the narrow limits of human reason and understanding. We grow very uncomfortable with what is undefined or what lacks boundaries. Allowing our souls to be stretched by faith, to be drawn along by wonder and led by the Spirit can feel terrifyingly vulnerable. The ego is most often the center of our existence. To let go of the false-self and to seek one’s identity and dignity in Christ is challenging to say the least. In fact, only God can bring us to such a place. Our striving, our ascetical life, our responsiveness to the grace of God is important. Yet in the end it is God alone who can purify the heart and who can open our eyes through the gift of faith to see the beauty of self-sacrificing love and obedience. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:10:26 FrDavid Abernethy: page 95 para 114   00:26:40 Ashley Kaschl: Was just about to say…Reminds me of how Christ was silent before His accusers during the Passion   00:28:23 Cindy Moran: This over-sensitivity is called taking umbrage.   00:31:55 Ren: (Concerning paragraph 116). Something that is coming to mind is that, in doing this, I could easily see a danger of becoming resentful for silently accepting abuse, and then following it with an apology - and one that might not be all that sincere. How would we do this, without allowing a spirit of anger to take root?   00:33:10 Anthony: Gluttony had an extra connotation at the time, since food and wine or beer was more scarce, took more work, was more tied to the seasons and was therefore more precious, and eating too much is a wound on other people who by right had a share in the common food.  It's not like John could drive over to the Kroger and buy Boars Head cold cuts at will if someone ate too much.   00:43:14 Daniel Allen: I think resentment also comes when one thinks one is unjustly accused or put down, when in reality what tends to confront us is more true (in one way or another) than we want to admit. And when it may not be a fair accusation on the surface, in one way or another it is likely true. When we realize our own sin put to death God Himself, what accusation could be false? How could distinction still matter. And when it’s still difficult then what St. Philip Neri said can always apply, there except for the grace of God go I? Remembering one’s own sinfulness makes this easy. Forgetting it makes it excruciating to bear.   00:50:02 Rachel: yep   00:50:40 Johnny Ross: The gap between ought and is represents a fundamental dichotomy in our identity. Isn't unity the ultimate trajectory of our walk in Christ. Individual unity, unity with the Church and, ultimately, Unity with God.   00:53:00 Rachel: You touched upon something I have been wondering about and that is how we find the ego everywhere. Where one has to really discern how one or, why, what motivates one to follow Christ. If at all!   00:53:35 Rachel: And I think this is where patience comes in to support one in the spiritual life   00:54:11 iPhone: I heard a sermon on Sunday in which the priest told about his struggle w/ anger & his spiritual director encouraged him to continue in his prayer over time…suggesting to him that he was lacking courage when he wished to give up the struggle.  The struggle took a full year — patience & courage.   00:54:23 Rachel: We must patiently, with love wait for Christ to reveal himself to us, in a way that He chooses to reveal Himseld.   00:57:31 Rachel: lol   01:17:27 Ashley Kaschl: My app updated and I don’t know how to raise my hand so sorry this is past time 😂   01:17:30 Ashley Kaschl: The end of Gaudium et Spes paragraph 24 comes to mind when I think of what we’ve talked about in regards to obedience and conforming oneself to Christ, that “man cannot find himself except through a sincere gift of self.” And I think it takes an extreme amount of grace and trust to get to a place of vulnerable docility to the Holy Spirit. Vulnerability, I think, has the root of Vulnera, which means “being open to a wounding” and it makes sense that this would be required if every soul who wishes to be a saint.   01:18:29 Art: Gotta run.  Thank you and good night all.   01:20:30 Rachel: When the illusions are stripped away there is nothing but our Lord to cling  but they cant pull themselves up and they linger on the brink of madness or what looks like madness from love.   01:20:59 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: I can only agree after living over 50 years in and under obedience. It is costly to one's ego in a healing way if one cooperates, dies to self-will. And it is such a protection for one's life - it's often kept me out of trouble!   01:21:24 Rachel: Thank you Sister!   01:22:26 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!! Always a joy to be with y'all.   01:22:29 Rachel: Thank you   01:22:31 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you   01:22:38 Rebecca Thérèse: 🙂   01:22:43 Cindy Moran: Thank you Fr Abernethy!  

Great group tonight folks and wonderful comments! Synopsis: The gentleness of God, the subtle workings of the Holy Spirit, the influence of the angels in our lives and the importance of gratitude - all of these things come forward in hypothesis 27 to strengthen us in the spiritual battle and to illuminate the path ahead. Life so often weighs us down. We feel the burden of ourselves most keenly and we can become jaded in the way that we view life, the world and God. Despite God making Himself a slave, a servant in order to lift us up out of our sin, despite his giving Himself to us, filling us with his life in love in the Eucharist and by the gift of the Spirit - we can become weary of life and weaken in terms of our capacity to hold on and hope.  In our own lives we must strive to understand that God is always working and active through His spirit of love. Despite the darkness that we struggle with and sometimes our lack of faith God never abandons us for a moment. From our perspective we must also understand that He never abandons others even when we see them falling into great darkness. God can choose individuals as vessels of election and through them He can do wonderful things. Our own incapacity to see clearly often makes us project onto God that same inability.  Finally, we have a responsibility to each other. We must allow ourselves to enter into the sufferings of others, to see the darkness that they struggle with and be willing to take them by the hand and to remain with them even when they find the presence of others agitating and unwanted. For this is the love of Christ. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:10:36 David Fraley: Hello Father. I’m sorry I haven’t been around. I got a new job and I work most evenings. I’ve been following through the podcast.   00:10:51 FrDavid Abernethy: page 229 Hypothesis XXVII   00:11:03 FrDavid Abernethy: Welcome back Dave   00:11:18 FrDavid Abernethy: no worries.   always glad to have you join us   00:19:28 Cindy Moran: Awww...you won't have any mice!   00:20:42 Debra: A kitty would be easier to have than a Great Pyrenees lol   00:23:26 Anthony: This account of Makarios sounds like the Russian Orthodox film "Ostrov" (Island).   00:24:48 carolnypaver: I thought of that also, Anthony. Except that he didn’t actually kill his captain in The Island.   00:27:42 Eric Ewanco: "Oh happy fault"   00:41:33 Rachel: Like becoming drunk with consolations. Being suddenly overcome by Love.   00:46:23 Anthony: This love borne of gratitude seems to me a lot better motivation to serve God than another alternative I heard, that the better you serve God, the higher the place in Heaven you get.   00:48:31 Lee Graham: The riches and pleasures of this world distract us from working in the fields of God. The harvest is plenty but the workers are few.   00:51:41 Lee Graham: He chooses to be magnanimous to everyone! 00:52:34 Lee Graham: He loves none of us more or less than the others.   00:57:46 Anthony: St. John of Damascus says something like penance is turning from what is unnatural to what if [created to be] natural.  We focus a lot on numbers, quantity, rules of life - which are good, but I prefer the  "Franciscan" happiness and freedom as a model of repentance.  "The glory of God is man fully alive" says Irenaeus, I think.   00:58:46 Ambrose Little, OP: Fear is very temporary and fleeting and limited. Gratitude and love are much more steady and reliable and have no upper bound.   00:59:05 Debra: ❤️   01:06:31 Anthony: This is a bit like "The Idiot" by Dostoevsky.   01:10:09 Debra: If anyone is interested... https://stpeterorthodoxchurch.com/the-meaning-of-dostoevskys-beauty-will-save-the-world/   01:10:16 Rachel: Wow, thank you Anthony. I had heard about that book yet, the protagonist was described in a different manner. I would really like to read that novel.   01:11:46 Anthony: You are welcome, Rachel.  It's been several years, I hope I described him and the story well.   01:19:58 Ambrose Little, OP: If we live long enough, probably most of us are both slaves at different times.   01:21:13 Debra: I'm the napper, right now, it seems like 01:25:46 Ambrose Little, OP: "mean Jesus" 🙂   01:27:36 Ambrose Little, OP: Gotta get out of yourself sometimes..   01:29:58 Rachel: Thank you!   01:30:00 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you, Father! 😁🙏   01:30:01 David Fraley: Thank you, Father!  

The unvarnished truth is not easy to hear or see. This is especially true when it reveals that which is within our own heart or what is lacking in our love or our faith.  Saint John Climacus gives us many stories from the lives of monks who live obedience to the point where it surpasses reason and right judgment; or when it seems to reach the point of absurdity. And indeed this is how the world sees Christianity and in its truest form; as foolishness and a stumbling block. In so many ways we have domesticated the gospel and the Christian life. What we bear witness to is the love of the kingdom made manifest in Christ and the cross.  We let go of self-will and self-identity in order to put on the true self that is found only in Christ. We are sons and daughters of God and our identity is to be shaped by this reality. All that we do must begin and end with God otherwise it is vanity. When reading the fathers we are compelled to ask ourselves, “Who am I?“Who is Christ to me?” --- Text of chat during the group:  00:15:07 FrDavid Abernethy: page 92 para 110   00:16:56 Bonnie Lewis: Do tell.   00:17:45 Bonnie Lewis: your room is looking nice   00:18:33 Eric Ewanco: you do have a euphonious voice   00:25:08 Br Theophan the non-recluse: What page #? I was totally spaced out when Fr David announced it😀   00:27:18 Bonnie Lewis: 92, para 110   00:28:02 Br Theophan the non-recluse: Thanks!   00:32:59 Anthony: Trisagion Films had one film - I think it was about St. Joseph the Heychast - who was impelled to leave an unkind elder, after enduring for a while.   00:35:39 Rachel: I am amazed about how Acacius doesnt draw attention to his suffering but simply states what has happened when asked. It is a clear example of how obedience leads to humility   00:37:21 Eric Ewanco: mine says "fool" instead of "blockhead"   00:38:40 Carol Nypaver: Ours is the Charlie Brown translation.🤣   00:38:59 Anthony: So much for Italian grandmas as elders....   00:39:51 Eric Ewanco: Is this a representation of the idea of Purgatory, that there is debt from our sin that we need to suffer to resolve?   00:42:27 Anthony: 38 years   00:46:30 Eric Ewanco: Xenia?   00:46:55 Anthony: Basil of Moscow, Way of the Pilgrim Author, St. Francis of Assisi   00:47:58 Anthony: Andrew the Charcoal-burner   00:48:27 Rachel: St Benedic Labre   00:50:07 Eric Ewanco: https://orthodoxwiki.org/Fool-for-Christ   00:54:09 John Cruz: Are there contemporary fools for Christ?  Is this a charism for even our times?   00:54:32 Rachel: What??Noooo   00:54:39 Rachel: lol oh dear   00:54:48 John Cruz: LOL   01:04:02 Anthony: Religious communities don;t need to be formally approved; people can just have their own informal community, no?   01:11:12 Ambrose Little, OP: There are benefits of being in a recognized/authorized community, though.   01:15:23 Johnny Ross: We must embrace the scars of this battle-the obstacle is the way   01:22:04 Anthony: John Cruz wanted to know if there are contemporary Fools for Christ.   01:22:56 Johnny Ross: Thank u Father   01:23:00 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!!   01:23:08 Rachel: Thank you Father and everyone   01:23:11 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you   01:23:15 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father.  

Scrutinizing the movements of the mind and the heart is never an easy thing to do. In fact we find ever more clever ways to avoid doing so. Truthful living, a willingness to acknowledge one’s failings and communicate them to a spiritual guide is put before for us by the fathers as a path that we should desire. It is not meant to punish us or to humiliate us, but rather to free us in our capacity to love God and to give ourselves to Him. We see in this hypothesis how deep this kind of observation penetrates into the thoughts and actions of an individual. Spiritual fathers have the responsibility to aid their children and help them to internalize this process and to ask themselves honestly whether they love and desire Christ above all things. How often and how easily we are moved by our own self-will. We can drag our feet when it comes to doing something that we to which we have an aversion or where we feel that we have something to do that is more important or pressing. It is far more difficult to allow ourselves to be moved by the Spirit of Love. The greatest acts of love are often those that go unnoticed or are rooted in the fulfillment of the simplest of duties. To take up responsibility without grumbling or to respond with immediacy to the need of another is what God sees and values. --- Text of chat during the group:  00:25:30 Anthony: One can take this passage and read it into the early chapters of the Acts of the Apostles.  Was it a kind of monastic community, and Ananias and Sapphira tries to enter the community but remain in the world, holding some of their own possessions?   00:31:34 Rachel: How old were the Apostles when Christ called them?   00:46:38 Anthony: "They" say you die as you have lived.  I suppose then that Jesus' "Into Thy hands I commend My spirit." indicates He perfected this emptiness of self as He lived.   00:53:26 Eric Ewanco: "Grasps another's hand ostentatiously"? What does that mean?   01:23:34 Rachel: The fact that they scrutenize is consoling   01:24:23 Rachel: Thank you!  

“Put out into the deep.”As we picked up with the Saint John’s writing on the spirit and practice of obedience the path set before us becomes ever so clear. We are called to be conformed to Christ. He is the standard by which we measure our lives and see what we have become in and through Him. We are to love obedience not because it brings satisfaction and joy in this world or because the things that happen to us or are asked of us conform to reason or our natural sensibilities. The fruit of obedience is humility; truthful living. It is living in accord with the truth of the kingdom that is revealed to us in and through the gift of faith. Obedience acts as that furnace of humiliation; it strips away from us the illusion of right judgment according to our own standards. What we are offered is so much more. Saint John quotes the great Cassian and tells us that humility gives rise to true discernment and out of true discernment comes clairvoyance and foreknowledge. We begin to see things, by the grace of God, through the eyes of Christ and in accord with the wisdom of the kingdom. What in this life should we desire more than this? Why do we find ourselves running back again and again simply to satisfy our own will and to manage our own life in a way that brings us fleeting happiness?  We are promised the joy of the kingdom and participation in the perfect love of God. This is not something that we can put on and take off as we do a garment. This is our identity and it must shape everything in our lives and in our hearts. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:11:38 Ren: Thanks Lori! I would have my camera on, but I’m drying my hair :-D   00:16:24 Cindy Moran: How was the mini retreat last Saturday?   00:16:28 FrDavid Abernethy: page 91   00:17:27 Miron Kerul Kmec: https://lifegivingspringspodcast.podbean.com/   00:17:27 Cindy Moran: Great!! Working in TV for 42 years...I needed it!   00:25:01 Eric Ewanco: wormwood/honey: This is a hard saying!   00:31:42 Eric Ewanco: Can we apply this principle to the current situation in the Church with +Francis?   00:45:42 Ambrose Little, OP: Following on from #104, it seems to me it's not really obedience if you agree with the direction you’re given--then you're effectively still just following your own will and mind. It’s when you are directed to something that you don't currently agree with or don't understand fully that it takes obedience, at least as a practical virtue. This is where the rubber meets the road, as it were, with regards to one’s bishop and the Holy Father--or one's own spiritual director.   00:51:54 Ambrose Little, OP: That's obedience to the rubrics. 🙂   00:53:34 Cathy Murphy: Music and signing effect a different part of the brain and creates a different experience   00:55:01 Rachel: LOL   00:55:40 Anthony: There's something in the Imitation of Christ, like: "There are so many difficult things in the Bible, sometimes it's best not to think too much if you can't understand."  It applies to a lot of Christian life.  Thinking too much and forcing understanding can be a self-inflicted wound.   00:58:52 Johnny Ross: This is a process of isolation since most people do not understand or appreciate any of this.   01:00:14 Eric Ewanco: my translation has insight instead of clarivoyance   01:00:59 Anthony: Padre Pio and violets   01:04:36 Ren: I can’t even imagine being perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. I would have to become a totally different person. I’m sure that’s the point 😄   01:07:32 Ren: Its so hard…I’m sure when we are told to “put on Christ” we are meant to do so in the way a graft is put on - so very closely and permanently. Instead, putting on Christ for me is at the most like putting on a coat that quickly becomes too hot or uncomfortable - or unneeded - and is tossed aside.   01:07:33 Mark Cummings: It reinforces that I need to pray the prayer “I believe, help my unbelief” very very often   01:07:58 Anthony: This is amazing.  The idea "be perfect," even in the relationship to examining conscience is something that can be crushing....but the blossoming flower of hope in God is something else entirely.  This hope something happy, even knowing a person is a sinner, and I wish this hope were emphasized more in the relationship to examining conscience.   01:12:58 Johnny Ross: Optionality is the Grand illusion. We are inundated with choices in this consumer driven culture yet the way is narrow   01:14:56 Johnny Ross: Thank You   01:19:51 Eric Ewanco: I like the term "spiritual warfare". :-)   01:22:15 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: "Give thanks in all things..."   01:22:17 Rachel: Thank you!   01:22:21 Johnny Ross: Great as usual, Thanks Father   01:23:01 Johnny Ross: Amen   01:23:02 Bridget McGinley: Thank you   01:23:05 Rachel: Have a beautiful retreat!!   01:23:08 Miron Kerul Kmec: Thank you   01:23:14 Rachel: Thank you Ren!!   01:23:28 Art: Great job Ren!!   01:23:29 kevin: thanks renz!   01:23:31 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: thank you   01:23:33 Lori Hatala: very user friendly   01:23:34 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father...great session!   01:23:37 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: address   01:23:46 Cindy Moran: Thank you Ren!   01:23:48 Hannah Hong: Thank you   01:23:54 sue and mark: good night and God bless you and everyone.  have a blessed retreat   01:24:00 kevin: thanks everyone  

It is as if we are sitting at the well, drinking deeply of that life-giving water. The fathers’ writings on the spiritual life speak to the soul in such a deep fashion that it gives rise to an insatiable desire for God. It is the willingness to do exactly what the fathers instruct in this hypothesis in our own way that will bear fruit. They call those entering the monastic life to look deeply into their hearts to see if they have there a desire for God; a desire strong enough to carry them to the end. We do our souls a disservice, they tell us, when we fail to present the challenge and the responsibility of the Christian life in an unvarnished fashion.  We are called to set aside self-will in whatever station we find ourselves in this world. We are to live for God and by his grace, always serving him and one another in a spirit of humility. We are called quite frankly to be foolish in the eyes of the world.  We are called to embrace a voluntary slavery not for the sake of earthly riches or for the sake of and earthly king.  We let go of our self-will in order to follow He who promises us everything. Our Beloved calls out to us, “Follow Me”.  Is there the desire, the longing and the humility within us to draw us along that path? --- Text of chat during the group: 00:22:11 Anthony: Rule of St Pachomius was a predecessor of St Seraphim Sarovsky's prayer rule, no?   00:36:03 Anthony: I think the devils attack and discourage in precisely those areas they perceive we are intended to grow holy.  It is a weariness, and it shows how maliciously nasty the devils are.   00:39:35 Bridget McGinley: How does one recharge after endless warfare? How do we know if it is temptation from the evil one or a trial from God?   00:56:17 Anthony: In Syria, St. Ephrem's (& Isaac's) home, the consecrated life was not necessarily just for the unmarried, but they also lived in or among larger communities that contained families or singles not taking vows.  Does Ephrem ever distinguish whether his advice is for the cloistered or for the people who live in non-vowed communities around the monastics?   00:57:55 Rachel: Yes!!   00:59:09 Denise T. : How important is it to have a mentor in the spiritual life he talks of? And how do you find one to help you navigate the life? What would you look for?   01:01:49 Ambrose Little, OP: One thing I find challenging is the council given--complete abasement, because that is not acceptable in the world, for those who must put themselves forward as competent in their chosen profession. It's not that we can't practice humility at all, but it is a balancing act between reassuring those who pay us that we actually do know things and are actually good at doing what we are asking to be paid for—and at the same time doing our best to practice humility in the eyes of God and being open to humiliation as is counseled in these readings (much less to seek that out). This is doubly hard when you need to get a new job, promotion, raise, get a new client, etc.—you have to put forward your best foot and "sell" yourself. I can see why they also counsel leaving the world entirely to achieve this perfection. 🙂   01:06:26 Ambrose Little, OP: On the note of finding spiritual guidance, these meetings (The Evergetinos and Climacus) are very good for ongoing, living guidance with the Fathers.   01:06:46 Ambrose Little, OP: life-giving, too! 🙂 01:07:06 Rodrigo Castillo: I would come   01:07:12 Paul: +1   01:07:35 Debra: Exactly, Ambrose   01:07:38 Ambrose Little, OP: I don't think my wife and kids would love that--for me to come _every_ night. But I would benefit!   01:08:01 Denise T. : I have come to 3 so far and look forward to Monday nights!   01:08:57 Rachel: WAS That me??? LOL   01:09:13 Ambrose Little, OP: Now we know you thought it! LOL   01:09:32 Anthony: Going to these groups is like the young monk (John the Dwarf?) instructed to wash a pot in oil multiple times, and then he saw the value of the continual washing in oi - the pot was gradually cleaned..   01:10:56 Rachel: Yes, but, I very quickly leanred to love going at this slow contemplative pace. So much so that my kids and I love listening this way and cant imagine going through the readings at lightening pace. Thanks be to God! Sorry Father   01:18:52 Anthony: These are religious people who are not professionals,  I like that.  It feels good to learn from them.   01:20:20 Rachel: Wow!! Thank you Ren!!   01:20:22 Cindy Moran: Thank you, Father!! Thank you, Ren!!   01:20:30 Kenneth: Thank you Ren   01:21:05 Jim and Joyce Walsh: thanks Ren!   01:21:50 Rachel: Thank you   01:22:08 Lee Graham: Thanks  

One participant in this evening‘s group commented that the counsel that St. John gives is eminently practical. This is true of the writings of the fathers as a whole. Their wisdom is rooted in Praxis; the practice of the faith, the exercise of the faith. Their writings seem to make so much sense because they are rooted in experiences that we so often take for granted or fail to explore. What is our motivation for doing or not doing certain things? What is it that drives us or leads us to negligence?  What one begins to see in John’s teaching is the beauty of obedience. Obedience is our capacity to listen to God without any impediment caused by self-will, without our ego blinding us to the truth about ourselves. Setting aside the false self allows us to act with a precious freedom. It cuts through all of our machinations about particular circumstances or responsibilities. It allows us to take up things with love and to see them through the eyes of love. We begin to understand why the fathers, then, speak of loving the virtues. We are to love obedience because it is not something that inhibits us but rather allows our true identity to emerge. It brings healing to our fundamental spiritual sickness as human beings - to put ourselves in the place of God. One of our great weaknesses is that we project our own image on to God and so create the illusion of fidelity.  --- Text of chat during the group: 00:15:23 Marco da Vinha: Good evening from Blighty!   00:19:10 Daniel Allen: I’m sorry where are we at?   00:19:37 Bonnie Lewis: #91   00:20:03 Daniel Allen: Thank you   00:25:26 Ambrose Little, OP: About meditating on what's in the office, part of the purpose of the antiphons and the brief meditation at the start of each psalm/canticle is to give the mind an anchor for that meditation, not too dissimilar from the mysteries in the rosary. Perhaps the antiphons were added after Climacus to help address the challenge of focus during communal psalmody.   00:28:51 Marco da Vinha: Would those be the Gyrovagues St. Benedict (very sparingly) talks about?   00:36:57 Bonnie Lewis: This is so beautifully written.   00:44:38 Daniel Allen: That is SHOCKINGLY practical for parents. I would love to do an all night vigil when my toddler is screaming during the night. But if he sleeps, last thing I’d want is to be woken up. And that same example during the day as well.   00:49:52 Daniel Allen: This makes me think, can God allow things mentioned here such as vain glory, to keep the monk in his cell   00:51:43 Johnny Ross: Interesting that the Evil one first tempted Christ with Bread in the desert   00:53:04 Marco da Vinha: @Johnny Ross: Adam and Eve's Fall was breaking the only rule of fasting He had given them 😅   00:53:27 Daniel Allen: I had a question above about the previous section 96   01:00:50 Daniel Allen: A freedom from one’s own self will   01:01:21 Ashley Kaschl: I haven’t completely finished the article I’m going to mention, but it’s Fr. Freeman’s most recent article about the ego and how we can create a false reality about our state in life and about God, and how we fall into the danger of placing zero boundaries when it comes to our ego - we live an aimless life or a life according to “me” and we can even delude ourselves into being obedient to our idea of what we think is true or what is Godly. I think St. John is talking about something similar if we give ourselves over to despondency instead of humility and diligence.   01:04:23 Johnny Ross: Many have created God in their own image instead of the other way around   01:04:28 Deb Dayton: I think this is the article   https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2022/09/21/boundaries-borders-and-the-true-god/   01:07:05 Ashley Kaschl: I have to run. My service is spotty. Thanks for the great group though!   01:07:52 Marco da Vinha: A bit tangential, but the previous paragraph and comments reminded me of something the painter said in the movie "A Hidden Life". When the main character saw him painting Christ in a chapel and praised him for it, the painter's reply was very interesting - "What we do, is just create... sympathy. We create-- We create admirers. We don't create followers. Christ's life is a demand. You don't want to be reminded of it. So we don't have to see what happens to the truth. A darker time is coming... when men will be more clever. They won't fight the truth, they'll just ignore it. I paint their comfortable Christ, with a halo over his head. How can I show what I haven't lived? Someday I might have the courage to venture, not yet. Someday I'll... I'll paint the true Christ."   01:15:37 Lee Graham: Discern where others are without condemnation   01:16:27 Art: Thank you father.  Good night!   01:16:28 Johnny Ross: Thank You Father   01:16:29 Jeffrey Ott: Thank you!   01:16:37 Deiren Masterson: God bless - thanks Father - all   01:16:38 Cindy Moran: Thank you Father!   01:16:39 kevin: thanks   01:16:44 Deb Dayton: Thank you so much  

We began by considering how the fathers of the desert would scrutinize individuals who would come to the monastery seeking entrance. They would put men to the test in every way to see if they had both the psychological and spiritual maturity not simply to make a decision but to persevere in the life and trials of a monk. One does not enter a monastery in a state of perfection. One is perfected through trials and tribulations; through the cross that is particular to one’s life. What stands out in the two stories that we listened to this evening about Saint Theodora and Saint Paul the Simple was the preeminence of two things: desire and humility. Upon entering the Christian life or more specifically the monastic life, one must be driven with a desire for God, a longing for Him and Hie love and to live a God pleasing life. Second to this desire is the virtue of humility. Along with such desire, one must live in the truth; the truth that all things begin and end with God. He alone is the source of our strength. He alone is our hope. It is our ego that most often is the impediment to our putting on the mind of Christ and being conformed to Him by the grace of God. When we no longer see anything but Christ, then we are filled with the desire to do His will. We are willing to endure every hardship for love of Him without grumbling or complaining. Joyfully these individuals sought out this life not to create a false image of themselves but to let go of the false self and to live for Christ alone. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:25:51 Carol: It is hard to understand how it was God’s will that Theodora, and later Paul the Simple, set aside their marriage vows and abandon their spouses.   00:33:44 Bridget McGinley: I love this story. She was amazing. Far from the uttermost coasts is the price of her! What a warrior for Christ.   00:36:31 Carol Nypaver: Did they ever find out she was a woman?   00:38:16 Ambrose Little, OP: I guess someone must have figured it out because we know her as St. Theodora and not St. Theodore. 🙂   00:38:34 Carol Nypaver: 🤣   00:38:47 Debra: 😁   00:39:26 Samar Tabet: Just clarifying: mon at 7:30,i hsve this link Wed at 7:30– whats the link for Wednesday?   00:40:16 Carol Nypaver: https://philokalia.link/climacus   00:46:23 Carol: Heroic meekness   00:48:21 Sheila Applegate: I just chuckled...so much truth.   00:52:18 Carol Nypaver: 60 years old——“elderly?!”😩   00:53:38 Debra: I agree, Carol!   00:54:08 Carol Nypaver: 😭🤣   00:54:13 Bridget McGinley: Esp in women's orders today. After 35 your old!!   00:54:32 Carol Nypaver: Yikes!   00:55:39 Bridget McGinley: 😇   00:56:12 Sheila Applegate: But in another way, why do we feel that way? Does one really know what they want out of life in their 20s? Some, sure. I am 46 and only feel that now I have an inkling of what God wants. What an odd mandate.   00:58:16 Sheila Applegate: We learn how to suffer the more we live. Good for him!   00:59:30 Bridget McGinley: I agree Sheila I think older is better especially these days. I don't know any 20 something person who is really mature these days.   01:02:18 Sheila Applegate: I get the docile part...   01:15:42 Ambrose Little, OP: I love how he basically said to St. Anthony: “Is that all you got??" 😆   01:16:01 Ashley Kaschl: 😂😂   01:19:42 Rachel: Thank you!!  

What emerges in reading the fathers is the subtle and yet intense interior battle that takes place within the human heart. We are often men and women of great contradiction. We can love and hate the same thing at the same time. We can create unholy alliances with others whose passions speak to our own and nurture our own. "Like speaks to like." And so we are taught that we should seek the company of those who love and desire God. Even if our experience in this world is one of isolation, if we feel alone in our pursuit of virtue, we should not be filled with any anxiety. One righteous man who does the will of God is better than a multitude of those who disregard the Commandments. As the Scriptures tell us, “from one wise man a city will be replenished.” Furthermore, when it comes to desire, we must keep Christ clearly before us and keep our eyes upon him. If we are simply following the pack, there will be many things that distract us from Him and losing sight of Him we will turn off of the narrow path that leads to Life. Desire and zeal for the Lord must be sought and grow over time. There is no static position within the spiritual life. Our hearts must long for the Beloved and drive us to pursue Him.  The fathers also speak to us about how necessary it is to test this desire, to scrutinize those who, in particular, are pursuing the ascetic life. As Christ counsels us to count the costs, so we see in the fathers a firmness in challenging those who would follow them in the ascetic life. Self-will and self-esteem offer only temporary motivation. It is love alone that endures. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:05:44 Ashley Kaschl: I’m eating fried chicken or is show my face 😂😂   00:16:28 Ashley Kaschl: I love that idea!   00:49:11 Carol: Reminds me of the Song of Songs, he whom my heart loves. I held on to him and   00:49:23 Carol: Would not let him go   00:51:41 Ashley Kaschl: This conversation is bringing to mind a story that a friend told me over the weekend about his missionary work in Ghana, and how this priest told him about a tree native to the region where each tree’s root system mirrors the canopy of that tree. So if you had a tree with a small canopy, the root system would also be small or shallow, the tree not very sturdy, where as a large canopy would indicate a deep and widespread root system, and a sturdy tree. He said that you could always tell the health of this tree by the condition of its canopy.    He reflected that if the roots of our prayer life are sprawling, secure, reaching out deeply in imitation of Christ, and if we are unwavering in our desire to be with Him, then the canopy of our life, the fruit, will mirror those roots. The fruit/canopy will tell of our intimacy with Christ often without having to speak a word. That we can’t help but to reflect the state of our interior lives.   00:55:02 Ashley Kaschl: Also I have to leave 👋 good seeing you all 😁   01:17:56 Rachel: Thank you  

I’ve often thought the Desert Fathers were the first and truest of depth psychologists. Their understanding of the human person, the workings of the mind and the heart, the effects of the emotions, and the workings of the unconscious is unparalleled in anything that we have seen before or sense.  Tonight Saint John Climacus, in a few paragraphs, takes us into those depths. He shows us the extent to which we can become conceited and that a false self can begin to emerge and become solidified. Out of their experience the Fathers came to know the many and varied ways that these things manifest themselves and the spiritual remedies to be applied. Disobedience, our inability to hear the truth and embrace it with love, has an impact on every area of our life and every relationship. It can lead to a kind of passive-aggressiveness that hardens the heart and makes us insensible to the needs of others or their goodness. Even Saint John says that he is amazed at the dexterity that we show in all manner of sin and the diversity of evil that flows from it. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:14:17 FrDavid Abernethy: para 81 page 88   00:14:34 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Hi What page again please   00:14:45 FrDavid Abernethy: page 88   00:14:50 FrDavid Abernethy: para 81   00:15:07 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Thank u   00:15:49 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: Good to be here   00:31:39 Johnny Ross: The paradox of true freedom is that it is found in obedience and conformity to our spiritual practice as shown by Christ. True freedom is not being able to do what you want. That is the distortion of modernity.   00:35:19 Carol Nypaver: What if bearing with insults  causes suspicion from one’s boss in the workplace? At what point can we defend ourselves?  Doesn’t justice demand that?   00:37:37 Carol: Like a lamb led to the slaughter, he opened not his mouth   00:38:15 Jeffrey Ott: This seems to align with Evagrius’ conversations on meekness and how courage and patience work together, “the work of courage and patience is to know no fear of enemies and eagerly to endure afflictions.”   00:38:36 Ambrose Little, OP: I wonder if some of the genius is that instead of trying to tackle lust head on, it’s coming at it from a different angle--one that is less associated with bodily desire. The mental desire for respect/high opinion of yourself (pride), though, is similar in that it is also a disordered desire. So if we learn to tame pride by embracing scorn, that exercise can teach us experientially how to tame lust (or other passions).   00:40:58 Cindy Moran: I have known some who have stayed in an abusive marriage saying they a trying to grow in holiness.   00:48:16 Ambrose Little, OP: Not a few saints have embraced significant personal suffering as a way of penance. Do you think it's ever right to endure, for example, an abusive relationship as a form of penance? Or what about an abusive brother in a monastic community?   01:03:07 Johnny Ross: This ego-centric Self is an illusion used by the prince of this world to control us. What about the tension between love thy neighbor as thyself and pick up thy cross and deny thyself. What is this self referred to here?   01:10:26 Ambrose Little, OP: like a small child..   01:15:45 Lee Graham: What is my motive for doing something a certain way? Seek Pure motives as well as purity of heart.   01:18:29 Bonnie Lewis: Father, I'm afraid you cut out.  I didn't hear what you just announced.   01:18:37 Sr Mary of our Divine Savior solt: 🙏🏼   01:18:43 Eric Ewanco: yes   01:18:57 Eric Ewanco: (no group next week)   01:18:59 Bonnie Lewis: OK- thank you.   01:19:08 Jeffrey Ott: thank you!   01:19:12 Johnny Ross: Thank you Father, sending prayers   01:19:20 Carol Nypaver: Thank you so much!   01:19:27 Rafael Patrignani: thank you Fr David!   01:19:31 Art: Thank you Father.  Good night   01:19:32 mark cummings: Thank you!!!   01:20:09 Cindy Moran: Excellent session! Thank you Father! Weill be praying for your event.   01:20:18 Deiren Masterson: Thank you Father   01:20:20 Ashley Kaschl: Thank you!!   01:20:21 Bonnie Lewis: Amen.  Thank you Father.   01:20:27 Ambrose Little, OP: really liked that flame wax paragraph. great analogy.