The Evergetinos - Hypothesis XXI, Part III

What a Magnificent group this evening on the Evergetinos. We truly began to see the wisdom of the fathers and how in reality they were the first depth psychologists. They knew the workings of the mind in the heart so well.

This evening we discussed how it is that one listens to a spiritual elder and what they offer as counsel. How is it that we discern the truth when we find ourselves still struggling with the same sins or sorrow or worry? Is the advice of the elder ineffective or is it because of our own disposition or of our changing dispositions over the course of time.

What we find in the section that we looked at this evening is that the fault often lies within ourselves. The human person is a mystery and we struggle with internal contradictions; we can love and hate our sin at the same time. Therefore, we hear the advice of a spiritual elder in many different ways. Sometimes we only hear partial truths. At other times we do not an act on what the elder told us to do. Or quite simply we have lacked faith in God and the power of His Grace. In their “Science of Sciences” the fathers show us how it is that we are to discern and come to know the workings of our heart as well as the action of God‘s Grace.

---   Text of chat during the group:   00:09:41 Eric Williams: I guess you were more of a Soul Train guy, Father ;)   00:11:52 Eric Williams: Exciting!   00:13:00 Eric Williams: Whereas an hour of cheesy hymns feels like an eternity ;)   00:16:58 Tyler Woloshyn: Glory be Forever!   00:26:44 Anthony: Perhaps this story illustrates the peculiar image in Scripture that God hardens hearts, like in Romans Chapter 9?  All things for Christ, but God permits to each person temptations or struggles which could be for our good but makes it appear God hates them?  Especially when we are previously unmerciful?  Or am I off the mark?   00:29:59 Mark Kelly: The ancient Greeks (before XC) said,” Those that the gods wish to bring down (destroy) they first make great.  Perhaps, because of the Incarnation, we can say, “Those that GOD wishes to make great, He first brings them low.”

00:31:27 Tyler Woloshyn: It reminds me of the verse and humbly to bear one another's burdens (Galatians 6:2)   00:32:09 B K-LEB: St therese said "the spirit blows where it wills"   00:32:27 B K-LEB: when asked about why she thinks God chose her..   00:38:11 Rachel Pineda: I do not think I am being to harsh here that the asceticism spoken of here is sometimes taken as superstitious but in fact when one treats it as such  it is a lack of faith in God's Providential care of each and every soul. Also, a lack of patience. Well, the Father just said better than I.   00:39:05 Anthony: St. Padre Pio ~ If you think I make a mistake, do you think God would?  (different context, but the principle fits.)   00:39:48 Rachel Pineda: LOL   00:39:58 Rachel Pineda: No the Desert Father but okay   00:40:15 Rachel Pineda: I am sure you know better than I   00:41:05 Rachel Pineda: What I am speaking about is the radical conversion that takes place. Even to other faithful it can look weird.   00:41:41 B K-LEB: I heard a man who had dealt with sexual abuse at the church say that "you don't have to heal to be holy". I am wondering your thoughts about this. Is healing necessarily and intrinsically related to holiness?   00:45:14 Rachel Pineda: I think Archbishop Fulton Sheen spoke about that in his talks on confession!   00:48:40 B K-LEB: wow thank u   00:49:09 Rachel Pineda: Yes, Thank you!   00:53:02 Anthony: It seems to me that the grief or pain is often one of the mind or imagination, but the center of the soul is confident in God.  The nagging thought is precisely the fog of thought, and the devil wishes it to descend to the nous - but God Who does not abandon the man allows us to conscously unite out thoughts to the  "crown of thorns" of Christ's crucifixion.   00:56:50 Anthony: Fr. Pavel Florovsku, "Iconostasis", opens with a discussion of dreams and time.   00:56:57 Anthony: Florovsky   00:58:49 Rachel Pineda: WOW!!   01:01:02 B K-LEB: Father you should talk more about this topic many are interested   01:17:42 Anthony: Father, this isn't just a religious topic. It involves the philosophical discipline of epistemlogy (the search for certain truth) - and we Americans are so impoverished in philosophical language and concepts   01:19:38 Eric Williams: Data, data everywhere, and not a thought to think   01:21:10 Carol Nypaver: My daughter once asked a co-worker what he thought about a particular topic.  He said, I haven’t thought about that, let me look it up.  😲   01:21:26 Anthony: It's a form of intoxication.   01:23:01 Debra: Off topic: Asking for prayers for all those effected by the flooding in southern Montana, and Yellowstone park Several rivers flooded; roads and bridges gone  Thank you   01:24:17 Tyler Woloshyn: Good night. God bless!   01:24:37 David Fraley: Good night, everyone!   01:24:55 Rachel Pineda: Goodnight!   01:25:04 Rachel Pineda: Thank you Father and everyone!   01:25:15 sue and mark: good night and God Bless