
The Edu Salon
The Edu Salon podcast is a space for connection and conversation around education. Each episode, Dr Deborah Netolicky talks with a global education thought leader to provide insights into where education is now and where it might move next.
Like the French salons of the 18th century, this podcast is a place for a diverse range of voices to explore ideas and generate discussion in order to change the world for the better. It has at its heart a focus on humanity, equity, democracy, and the experiences of young people.
Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Soundcloud, Amazon Music and Audible.
Join the conversation on Instagram @theedusalon and by connecting with Deb on LinkedIn.
Latest episodes

May 28, 2022 • 43min
Marnee Shay on Indigenous education, research and representation
Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Marnee Shay about flexi schools, yarning, and the education experiences of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander young people. Marnee is an award-winning Aboriginal educator and researcher whose maternal connections are to Wagiman country, and she also has strong connections to Aboriginal communities in South East Queensland where she was born and raised. She is a Senior Research Fellow in the School of Education and an affiliate Senior Research Fellow in the Centre for Policy Futures at the University of Queensland. Her work spans the fields of Indigenous education and policy, flexible schooling, and youth studies. She is co-Editor of 'Indigenous education in Australia Learning and Teaching for Deadly Futures' and serves on numerous government and school boards and committees including the Queensland Department of Education Ministerial Advisory Committee for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Education.
Want to know more?
- Marnee: https://education.uq.edu.au/profile/2069/marnee-shay
- Book ‘Indigenous Education in Australia’: https://www.routledge.com/Indigenous-Education-in-Australia-Learning-and-Teaching-for-Deadly-Futures/Shay-Oliver/p/book/9780367207755
- Podcast ‘Indigenous Education in Australia’: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1721882.rss
- Journal article ‘Collaborative Yarning Methodology’: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/australian-journal-of-indigenous-education/article/abs/extending-the-yarning-yarn-collaborative-yarning-methodology-for-ethical-indigenist-education-research/B331F0D79C69C08724F9E9BBCBFE522B
Join the conversation on social media.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

May 14, 2022 • 45min
Dennis Shirley on change, wellbeing and engagement in education
Deborah Netolicky talks with Professor Dennis Shirley about educational change, wellbeing, student engagement, and teaching. During the episode, Dennis shares an impromptu poetry recitation, mindful moments, and deep reflections on his own practice. He is Gabelli Faculty Fellow and Professor of Education at the Lynch School of Education and Human Development at Boston College, and also a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts in London, and a Richard von Weizsäcker Fellow of the Bosch Foundation in Berlin. Dennis has conducted research and led professional development for teachers, principals, and affiliated staff in 30 nations in 6 continents. His prolific work has been translated into numerous languages. His books include 'The New Imperatives of Educational Change', 'The Mindful Teacher', 'The Fourth Way', ‘Five Paths of Student Engagement’, and ‘Well-being Schools'.
Join the conversation on social media.
Dennis: @dennisshirley on Twitter and @dennis_shirley on Instagram.
Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.
Want to know more?
- Dennis’s publications: https://dennisshirley.com/publications/

Apr 30, 2022 • 40min
Victoria Showunmi on identity, gender, race and class in education
Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Victoria Showunmi about identity, racism, classism, gender equity and intersectionality in education, especially in terms of the experiences of black girls and black women. Victoria is Associate Professor in Education at University College London’s Institute of Education and has led educational equity and leadership projects all over the world. Her research and projects focus on gender and educational leadership, and black young women and their wellbeing through an intersectional lens.
Join the conversation on social media.
Victoria: @ShowunmiV on Twitter.
Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.
Want to know more?
- Book: ‘Understanding and Managing Sophisticated and Everyday Racism’ https://rowman.com/ISBN/9781498567091/Understanding-and-Managing-Sophisticated-and-Everyday-Racism-Implications-for-Education-and-Work
- Book: ‘The Bloomsbury Handbook of Gender and Educational Leadership and Management’ https://www.bloomsbury.com/au/bloomsbury-handbook-of-gender-and-educational-leadership-and-management-9781350173156/
- The Black Girls’ Club http://www.genderandeducation.com/6462-2/gels-in-action-black-girls-club/

Apr 16, 2022 • 43min
Santiago Rincón-Gallardo on living, liberating and leading learning
Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Santiago Rincón-Gallardo about what it means to liberate learning from schooling, including global examples of learning communities embracing learning as a practice of freedom and humanity. Santiago is an education consultant, founder and director of Liberating Learning, and Chief Research Officer at Michael Fullan’s consulting team. He conducts research and advises leaders and educators to liberate learning in school networks and across educational systems in the United States, Canada, Latin America, and Australia. As an educator and organiser, Santiago worked for over a decade to promote grassroots pedagogical change initiatives in Mexican public schools serving historically marginalized communities. He was the director of a small NGO that catalysed a movement to turn conventional classrooms into tutorial networks, a movement that later on spread to over nine thousand schools across the country. Santiago's academic work explores how effective pedagogies for deep learning can spread at scale. His most recent book is 'Liberating Learning: Educational Change as Social Movement'. Santiago holds a doctorate on Education Policy, Leadership and Instructional Practice from Harvard. He completed postdoctoral studies and has been a visiting scholar at the University of Toronto.
Join the conversation on social media.
Santiago: @SRinconGallardo on Twitter.
Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.
Want to know more?
- Chapter: ‘Leading to Liberate Learning’ https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/9781003131496-18/leading-liberate-learning-santiago-rinc%C3%B3n-gallardo
- Book: ‘Liberating Learning’ https://www.routledge.com/Liberating-Learning-Educational-Change-as-Social-Movement/Rincon-Gallardo/p/book/9781138491762
- Interview article https://internationalednews.com/an-interview-with-dr-santiago-rincon-gallardo/

Apr 2, 2022 • 42min
Amanda McKay on principals’ lives, work and wardrobes
Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Amanda McKay (formerly Heffernan) about principals’ identities, work, wellbeing, and wardrobes. Amanda, a former public school principal, is a Senior Lecturer in Educational Leadership at Monash University whose work focuses on principals’ work and lives, and on how we can better attract, support, and keep school leaders within the profession. She has a particular interest in leadership in complex school settings, including those in rural and remote areas, and the skills and knowledge that are needed to successfully lead those schools. She is author of numerous publications, including the award-winning book 'The Principal and School Improvement', and co-Editor of the 'Journal of Educational Administration and History'.
Join the conversation on social media.
- Amanda: @chalkhands on Twitter and Instagram.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.
Want to know more?
- Book: ‘The Principal and School Improvement: Theorising Discourse, Policy, and Practice’
- Report: ‘Autonomy, Accountability, and Principals’ Work: An Australian Study’ https://researchmgt.monash.edu/ws/portalfiles/portal/324416419/314450604_oa.pdf
- Article: Women leaders judged by wardrobe choices: https://www.monash.edu/news/articles/hanger-management-women-leaders-judged-by-wardrobe-choices
- Article (paywalled): The Punk Rock principal https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00220620.2019.1582476?journalCode=cjeh20
- Editorial: Educational Leadership and Policy: Precarity and Precariousness https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00220620.2021.2006880

Mar 19, 2022 • 43min
Adam Voigt on restorative practices and restoring teaching
Deborah Netolicky talks with Adam Voigt about restorative practices, principalship, and trusting the teaching profession. Adam was a teacher and primary principal before founding the company Real Schools, a business that partners with schools to develop tools, skills, and attitudes to build meaningful relationships and positive school cultures. He an author, speaker, and prominent commentator on education in the Australian media, including news and current affairs show ‘The Project’, work through which he advocates for students and those working in schools.
Join the conversation on social media.
- Adam: @adam_voigt on Twitter and @voigty72 on Instagram.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.
Want to know more?
- Real Schools: https://realschools.com.au/
- Book: Restoring Teaching https://adamvoigt.com.au/books/restoring-teaching/
- Videos: Adam in the Australian media https://adamvoigt.com.au/media/

Mar 5, 2022 • 41min
Vivienne Porritt on gender equity, impact and courage in education
Deborah Netolicky talks with Vivienne Porritt OBE about impact in education, gender equity, WomenEd, and being 10% braver. Previously a teacher, secondary headteacher, Executive Director of the London Centre for Leadership in Learning, Director for School Partnerships at University College London, a Chair of Governors, and a Founding Fellow and Vice President of The Chartered College of Teaching, Vivienne is currently a leadership consultant supporting school and academy leaders with professional learning and development, impact evaluation, vision, strategy and women's leadership. She is one of the Co-Founders and Global Strategic Leaders of WomenEd.
Join the conversation on social media.
- Vivienne: @ViviennePorritt on Twitter and @WomenEd on Instagram.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.
Want to know more?
- WomenEd: https://womened.org/
- WomenEd books: https://womened.org/the-book
- Gender Pay Gap Report: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xDHJw-C5ppzee1WsU1z3FxdwAJXorYRr/view?usp=sharing
- Article: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/feb/19/female-teachers-breaking-glass-ceiling-find-conservatory
- Video: TedX talk 'A world where normal doesn't exist' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVbtBtw9Th0
- Book: 'Invisible Women' by Caroline Criado Perez https://www.penguin.com.au/books/invisible-women-9781784706289

Feb 19, 2022 • 44min
Jacob Easley II on equity, agency and measurement in education
Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Jacob Easley II about equity, inclusion, culturally responsive teaching, measuring educational effectiveness, and the effects of the pandemic. An expert in educational accountability, equity, and improvement, Jacob is Dean of the Graduate School of Education at Touro College, New York, and previously served in various education and leadership positions across five different states, and the District of Columbia.
Join the conversation on social media.
- Jacob: @Drje2 on Twitter and @drje2 on Instagram.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.
Want to know more?
- Article: Teaching for Racial and Social Justice https://www.diverseeducation.com/demographics/african-american/article/15108195/educator-preparation-programs-lead-the-way-for-racial-and-social-justice-for-all
- Opinion: Education and Democracy https://www.diverseeducation.com/opinion/article/15280530/education-and-democracy-critique-of-diversity-equity-and-race-for-liberatory-practices
- Book: The Audacity to Teach!: The Impact of Leadership, School Reform and the Urban Context on Educational Innovations https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780761854432/The-Audacity-to-Teach!-The-Impact-of-Leadership-School-Reform-and-the-Urban-Context-on-Educational-Innovations
- Video: CEO Unplugged https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY5ArbOa2pc

Feb 5, 2022 • 45min
Christian van Nieuwerburgh on coaching for optimal performance and optimal wellbeing
Deborah Netolicky talks with Professor Christian van Nieuwerburgh about coaching, respectful conversations, professional growth, and teaching. Christian is an author and an authority on the use of coaching in educational settings. He is Professor of Coaching and Positive Psychology at the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland, and Global Director of Growth Coaching International.
Join the conversation on social media.
- Christian: @ChristianvN on Twitter and @coachonamotorcycle on Instagram.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon podcast: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.
Want to know more?
- Growth Coaching International: https://www.growthcoaching.com.au/
- Book: An Introduction to Coaching Skills: A Practical Guide https://uk.sagepub.com/en-gb/eur/an-introduction-to-coaching-skills/book270095
- Book: Coaching in Professional Contexts https://uk.sagepub.com/en-gb/eur/coaching-in-professional-contexts/book244295
- Video: Coaching as a Wellbeing Enhancer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAMEuUq-Hfw

Jan 22, 2022 • 10min
Prologue
Welcome to The Edu Salon! In this preliminary episode, host and salonnière Dr Deborah Netolicky discusses the why and what of this podcast, and a little about her.