
The Edu Salon
The Edu Salon podcast is a space for connection and conversation around education. Each episode, Dr Deborah Netolicky talks with a global education thought leader to provide insights into where education is now and where it might move next.
Like the French salons of the 18th century, this podcast is a place for a diverse range of voices to explore ideas and generate discussion in order to change the world for the better. It has at its heart a focus on humanity, equity, democracy, and the experiences of young people.
Available on:
Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-edu-salon/id1606510793
Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/3DbqF7WZ6Xx81B1maC2H95
Amazon Music https://music.amazon.com.au/podcasts/6b4ca0bb-1794-4945-ad0a-617937373367/the-edu-salon
Audible https://www.audible.com.au/podcast/The-Edu-Salon/B09VZX636S?source_code=ASSGB149080119000H&share_location=pdp
Join the conversation on Instagram @theedusalon and by connecting with Deb on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-deborah-netolicky-29a51190/ .
Latest episodes

Sep 17, 2022 • 46min
Cameron Paterson on learning, teaching, and schooling
Deborah Netolicky talks with Cameron Paterson about learning, thinking, teaching, and schooling. Cameron is Director of Learning at Wesley College, Melbourne. Prior to this he was the Director of Learning and Teaching at Shore School, Sydney. Outside school, he works with Harvard’s Project Zero as an online course instructor and as part of the faculty at the annual Project Zero Classroom. He has taught in the Harvard teacher education program and worked for Harvard’s Principal’s Center. His awards include the Dr Paul Brock Medal from the Australian College of Educators, a Churchill Fellowship, the 21st Century International Global Innovation Award for Teaching, an NGS Super Changemakers scholarship, an Australian Council for Educational Leaders New Voice scholarship, a top 50 nomination for the Global Teacher Prize, and being named on The Educator Hot List. Cameron is the co-editor of ‘Flip the System Australia: What matters in education’ and a staff writer for ‘Getting Smart’.
Want to know more?
- Cameron’s ‘Getting Smart’ articles: https://www.gettingsmart.com/author/cameron-paterson/
- Cameron’s Churchill Fellowship report: https://churchilltrustapp.secure.force.com/api/services/apexrest/v1/image/?Id=0697F00000wLDSmQAO&forceDownload=Yes
- ‘Flip the system Australia: What Matters in Education’: https://www.routledge.com/Flip-the-System-Australia-What-Matters-in-Education/Netolicky-Andrews-Paterson/p/book/9781138367869#:~:text=Flip%20the%20System%20Australia%3A%20What%20matters%20in%20education%20brings%20together,to%20the%20current%20education%20system.
Join the conversation on social media.
- Cameron: @cpaterso on Twitter.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

Sep 3, 2022 • 46min
Kevin Lowe on sustainable improvement in Aboriginal education
Deborah Netolicky talks with Associate Professor Kevin Lowe about Aboriginal education research and practice in Australia, including the role and power of curriculum, the ‘making of teachers’, the importance of listening to the voices of Indigenous people and engaging community. Kevin is a Gubbi Gubbi man from southeast Queensland. He is a Scientia Associate Professor and Indigenous Fellow at the University of New South Wales, with experience in education as a teacher, administrator and lecturer. He has expertise in working with Aboriginal community organisations on establishing Aboriginal language policy and school curriculum implementation. Recently Kevin has worked with colleagues to review research across key areas of schooling and established the Aboriginal Voices project and is Lead Chief Researcher in the Culturally Nourishing Schooling project.
Want to know more?
- Kevin’s ORCiD profile: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-2982-6565
- Article on the Aboriginal Voices Project: https://www.aare.edu.au/blog/?tag=aboriginal-voices-project
- On the Culturally Nourishing Schooling project: https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/general/3m-gift-improve-education-outcomes-aboriginal-and-torres-strait-islander-students
Join the conversation on social media.
- Kevin: @DrKevinLowe on Twitter.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

Aug 20, 2022 • 43min
Ellie Drago-Severson on adult learning and leading adult learners
Deborah Netolicky talks with Professor Ellie Drago-Severson about adult learning and leading adult learners, through the lens of developmental psychology. Ellie is Professor of Education Leadership, and Adult Learning and Leadership, at Teachers College, Columbia University. A developmental psychologist, Ellie teaches, conducts research, and consults to schools and districts, school and district leaders, teacher leaders, coaches. and organizations on: professional and personal growth and learning; leadership that supports principal, teacher, school, and leadership development; and coaching and mentoring in K–12 schools, university settings, and other educational contexts domestically and internationally. She is author of several prizewinning, bestselling books, including ‘Helping Teachers Learn’, ‘Leading Adult Learning’, ‘Becoming Adult Learners’, and ‘Helping Educators Grow’.
Want to know more?
- Ellie’s website: https://dragoseverson.wordpress.com/
Join the conversation on social media.
- Ellie: @DrEllieDS on Twitter.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

Aug 6, 2022 • 43min
Jiang Xueqin on teaching for creativity, agency, and empowerment
Deborah Netolicky talks with Jiang Xueqin about creativity, agency, and empowerment in the context of China’s education system. Jiang is a Beijing-based school leader, educator, and writer who for the past fifteen years has promoted the teaching of creativity in the Chinese public school system. He has written two books about his work: ‘Creative China’ (2014) and ‘Schools for the Soul’ (2021). Jiang is a judge for the Global Teacher Prize, the Global Student Prize, and the World's Best School Prizes. He is a researcher at the Harvard Graduate School of Education Global Education Innovation Initiative, and a Fellow of the Royal Society of the Arts. He has spoken at education conferences around the world, including the World Innovation Summit for Education in Doha and the Global Education and Skills Forum in Dubai. He has been interviewed by CNN and the BBC, and has written for the 'Wall Street Journal' and the 'Chronicle of Higher Education'.
Want to know more?
- WISE article on creativity and innovation in Chinese schools: https://www.wise-qatar.org/creativity-innovation-possible-chinese-schools-xueqin-jiang/
- Video interview with T4 Education: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVm3OqDVIwY
Join the conversation on social media.
- Jiang: @xueqinjiang on Twitter.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

Jul 23, 2022 • 42min
Tracey Ezard on leading for collaboration, culture and growth
Deborah Netolicky talks to Tracey Ezard about leadership, collaboration, learning, and developing psychologically-safe organisational cultures. Tracey has a background in teaching and educational leadership in the Victorian state system; business management and HR in fine dining restaurants; and project management in the automotive industry. She has been running her own speaking and consulting practice for sixteen years, and is known for her Ferocious Warmth leadership approach and collaborative framework The Buzz. Tracey has run leadership, cultural and strategic programs throughout Australia, New Zealand and the UK. She is a National Fellow of the Australian Council of Education Leaders, a Certified Speaking Professional, Board Chair of The Corner Store Network, and author of three books: ‘Glue’, ‘The Buzz’, and ‘Ferocious Warmth’.
Want to know more?
- Tracey’s website: https://www.traceyezard.com/
- Special podcast package: https://www.traceyezard.com/podcast-downloads-page
Join the conversation on social media.
- Tracey: @traceyezard on Twitter and @traceyezard on Instagram.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

Jul 9, 2022 • 42min
Trista Hollweck on professional learning, wellbeing and community
Deborah Netolicky talks to Dr Trista Hollweck about mentoring, coaching, teacher agency, wellbeing, play, and community. Trista is a pracademic who integrates the worlds of research, policy, and practice. She is a former teacher, vice-principal, and school district consultant. She is Director of the ARC Education Program that brings together Ministers and professional leaders from seven countries to advance equitable, inclusive and humanitarian goals in education, and co-Principal Investigator of the Canadian Playful Schools Network funded by the LEGO Foundation in the University of Ottawa. Her research has examined teacher induction, mentoring and coaching programs and their systemic change implications at the school board level. She has also researched, published and consulted about restorative justice, professional learning and development, teacher evaluation, and educational change. Trista received her doctorate from the University of Ottawa. She is committed to supporting schools and systems to improve education for all students within and across educational systems globally.
Want to know more?
- ARC (Atlantic Rim Collaboratory): https://atrico.org/
- Canadian Playful Schools Network: https://www.playjouer.ca/
- Paper: ‘Defining and exploring pracademia: identity, community, and engagement’ https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/JPCC-05-2021-0026/full/html
- Paper: ‘“I love this stuff!”: a Canadian case study of mentor–coach well-being’ https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Trista-Hollweck/publication/335659645_I_love_this_stuff_a_Canadian_case_study_of_mentor-coach_well-being/links/5ebbc8a6458515626ca5b06f/I-love-this-stuff-a-Canadian-case-study-of-mentor-coach-well-being.pdf
Join the conversation on social media.
- Trista: @tristateach on Twitter.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

Jun 25, 2022 • 45min
Paul Campbell on leadership, pracademia, and collaboration
Deborah Netolicky talks to Dr Paul Campbell about teaching, leading, pracademia, and collaboration. Paul is Vice Principal of ESF Sha Tin Junior School in Hong Kong, with responsibility for learning, teaching, and assessment, professional learning, quality assurance, and child protection and safeguarding. Paul is also on a partial secondment to the ESF Centre for Research where he leads the 'Seeds of Leadership' programme. He is also a Partner Tutor at the University of Dundee working on MEd programmes in Educational Studies, and External Reviewer for MEd programmes at the University of Hong Kong. Paul is Chair of the International Professional Development Association (IPDA), and is co-coordinator of the educational leadership network for the International Congress for School Effectiveness and Improvement (ICSEI). Paul is also on the editorial board of the journal, Management in Education (MiE), and sits on the advisory board for the Leadership for Professional Learning (LfPL) symposium. Paul recently completed his doctorate at the University of Glasgow where he researched the context, governance, and leadership of collaboration for school and system-wide improvement.
Want to know more?
- Paul’s PhD thesis ‘Collaboration – the ubiquitous panacea for challenges in education': https://theses.gla.ac.uk/82883/
- Paper on pracademia ‘Defining and exploring pracademia: identity, community, and engagement’: https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/JPCC-05-2021-0026/full/html
- Paul’s blog: https:/mrcampbell91.wordpress.com/
Join the conversation on social media.
- Paul: @PCampbell91 on Twitter.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

Jun 11, 2022 • 44min
Dylan Wiliam on learning, teaching, and cultures of continuous improvement
Deborah Netolicky talks with Professor Dylan Wiliam about his important work in formative assessment, as well as how classrooms and schools can create cultures of continuous improvement for all. Dylan is Emeritus Professor of Educational Assessment at University College London. In a varied career, he has taught in inner-city schools, directed a large-scale testing program, served a number of roles in university administration, including Dean of a School of Education, and pursued a research program focused on supporting teachers to develop their use of assessment in support of learning. His books include 'Embedded Formative Assessment', 'Leading Teacher Learning', and 'Creating the Schools our Children Need'.
Want to know more?
Dylan’s website: dylanwiliam.org
Join the conversation on social media.
Dylan: @dylanwiliam on Twitter.
Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

May 28, 2022 • 43min
Marnee Shay on Indigenous education, research and representation
Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Marnee Shay about flexi schools, yarning, and the education experiences of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander young people. Marnee is an award-winning Aboriginal educator and researcher whose maternal connections are to Wagiman country, and she also has strong connections to Aboriginal communities in South East Queensland where she was born and raised. She is a Senior Research Fellow in the School of Education and an affiliate Senior Research Fellow in the Centre for Policy Futures at the University of Queensland. Her work spans the fields of Indigenous education and policy, flexible schooling, and youth studies. She is co-Editor of 'Indigenous education in Australia Learning and Teaching for Deadly Futures' and serves on numerous government and school boards and committees including the Queensland Department of Education Ministerial Advisory Committee for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Education.
Want to know more?
- Marnee: https://education.uq.edu.au/profile/2069/marnee-shay
- Book ‘Indigenous Education in Australia’: https://www.routledge.com/Indigenous-Education-in-Australia-Learning-and-Teaching-for-Deadly-Futures/Shay-Oliver/p/book/9780367207755
- Podcast ‘Indigenous Education in Australia’: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1721882.rss
- Journal article ‘Collaborative Yarning Methodology’: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/australian-journal-of-indigenous-education/article/abs/extending-the-yarning-yarn-collaborative-yarning-methodology-for-ethical-indigenist-education-research/B331F0D79C69C08724F9E9BBCBFE522B
Join the conversation on social media.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

May 14, 2022 • 45min
Dennis Shirley on change, wellbeing and engagement in education
Deborah Netolicky talks with Professor Dennis Shirley about educational change, wellbeing, student engagement, and teaching. During the episode, Dennis shares an impromptu poetry recitation, mindful moments, and deep reflections on his own practice. He is Gabelli Faculty Fellow and Professor of Education at the Lynch School of Education and Human Development at Boston College, and also a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts in London, and a Richard von Weizsäcker Fellow of the Bosch Foundation in Berlin. Dennis has conducted research and led professional development for teachers, principals, and affiliated staff in 30 nations in 6 continents. His prolific work has been translated into numerous languages. His books include 'The New Imperatives of Educational Change', 'The Mindful Teacher', 'The Fourth Way', ‘Five Paths of Student Engagement’, and ‘Well-being Schools'.
Join the conversation on social media.
Dennis: @dennisshirley on Twitter and @dennis_shirley on Instagram.
Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.
Want to know more?
- Dennis’s publications: https://dennisshirley.com/publications/
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