
The Edu Salon
The Edu Salon podcast is a space for connection and conversation around education. Each episode, Dr Deborah Netolicky talks with a global education thought leader to provide insights into where education is now and where it might move next.
Like the French salons of the 18th century, this podcast is a place for a diverse range of voices to explore ideas and generate discussion in order to change the world for the better. It has at its heart a focus on humanity, equity, democracy, and the experiences of young people.
Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Soundcloud, Amazon Music and Audible.
Join the conversation on Instagram @theedusalon and by connecting with Deb on LinkedIn.
Latest episodes

Sep 16, 2023 • 45min
Lauren Sayer on curriculum, innovation and neurodivergence
Deborah Netolicky talks with Lauren Sayer about innovation, curriculum, teaching, neurodivergence and change. Lauren is currently Director of Curriculum at the Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority (VCAA). Previously, she served as the Executive Director of Research and Innovation at Melbourne Girls Grammar, and founded the Melbourne Girls Grammar Institute, a global educational community hub dedicated to innovation and leadership in education practices. In addition to her school leadership roles, Lauren was previously Head of Teaching and Learning at the Royal Children's Hospital Education Institute where she championed the cause for world-class pedagogy and continuous learning for those students who could not attend school in a traditional setting.
Want to know more?
https://au.linkedin.com/in/lauren-sayer-gaicd-facel-34637919
Join the conversation on social media.
- Lauren: @Lilylauren on Twitter and Instagram.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

Aug 20, 2023 • 46min
Jim Knight on humanising conversations and instructional coaching
Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Jim Knight about instructional coaching, trust, credibility, humility and mutually humanising conversations. Jim is Founder and Senior Partner of Instructional Coaching Group (ICG), a research associate at the University of Kansas Center for Research on Learning. He has spent more than two decades studying professional learning and instructional coaching. Jim earned his PhD in Education from the University of Kansas and has won several university teaching, innovation, and service awards. The pioneering work Jim and his colleagues have conducted has led to many innovations that are now central to professional development in schools. Jim’s books include ‘Instructional Coaching’, ‘Focus on Teaching’, ‘Unmistakable Impact, ‘High-Impact Instruction, ‘Better Conversations’, ‘The Impact Cycle, and ‘The Definitive Guide to Instructional Coaching’. Jim conducts coaching workshops, hosts the Facebook Live series ‘Coaching Conversations’, and provides consulting for coaching programs around the world.
Want to know more?
- https://www.instructionalcoaching.com/
- https://www.facebook.com/instructional.coaching
Join the conversation on social media.
- Jim: @jimknight99 on Twitter and Instagram.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

Jul 8, 2023 • 46min
Kevin Richardson on principalship and students as change makers
Deborah Netolicky talks with Kevin Richardson about the joys of principalship, school change, and engaging students as change makers in schools built for the future. Kevin has been a Principal at Immanuel College since 2002. Prior to this he helped established the internationally acclaimed Technology School of the Future and held senior executive positions in the WA, NSW, and SA Education Departments. Kevin is a highly versatile educator with leadership and management expertise across a broad range of domains including governance, education, technology, and consultancy; in private, public and not for profit sectors. Kevin has been a leader nation-wide with respect to changes in teaching and learning, particularly in the area of technology, learning environments and student advocacy. He is highly regarded for his work on futures-oriented thinking and its implications for leaders and schools. Recognition of his outstanding leadership has seen him receive the Australian Centenary Medal in 2001 for significant contribution to Education, a Presidential citation for National Leadership in Education from ACEL and the Mary McKillop medal (Eminent Educator of the Year) from the Australian College of Education. He has been awarded the John Laing Award for Exceptional Educational Leadership from the Australian Principals‘ Association.
Join the conversation on social media.
- Kevin: on LinkedIn https://au.linkedin.com/in/kevin-richardson-13626023
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

Jun 3, 2023 • 44min
Helen Kelly on educator wellbeing and burnout
Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Helen Kelly about educator wellbeing and burnout. Helen is a school wellbeing expert, author, consultant, speaker and researcher. She led international schools in Asia and Europe, until she retired from her work as a principal in 2020. She has been conducting research in the field of educator wellbeing for almost a decade. Prior to becoming an educator, she spent ten years as a lawyer in the field of workplace health and safety. Helen draws upon her knowledge of evidenced-based practices, her understanding of the needs of school communities and her legal background to deliver approaches that are strategic, effective and have long-term impact on individual wellbeing and school culture. Helen's first book ‘School Leaders Matter; Preventing Burnout, Managing Stress and Improving Wellbeing’ was published in 2023.
Want to know more?
- www.drhelenkelly.com
Join the conversation on social media.
- Helen: @drhkelly on Twitter and Facebook.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

May 6, 2023 • 47min
Chris Munro on coaching, culture and conversation
Deborah Netolicky talks with Chris Munro about coaching, mentoring and cultures of intentional professional conversation. Chris is an educator first and foremost, with extensive experience in supporting and leading the development of teachers and school leaders drawn from more than 30 years in schools in Australia and Scotland, in Initial Teacher Education, and as a coach and facilitator. Chris followed his passion by joining Growth Coaching International
(GCI) in 2017 and he now has the privilege of leading this world-class organisation as it works to fulfil its purpose: to enhance the quality of conversations in education communities so that learners, educators and leaders can thrive. Chris continues to coach education leaders and is involved in the design and delivery of coaching and mentoring
training courses and consultancy projects across Australia and internationally. He has a particular interest in the impact of coaching on school learning culture, regularly writes and speaks about coaching and mentoring in education, and presents at major conferences in the UK, Australia and the USA.
Want to know more?
- https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Chris-Munro-4
Join the conversation on social media.
- Chris: @CmunroOz on Twitter
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram

Apr 1, 2023 • 42min
Summer Howarth on designing learning, partnering with students, and trusting teachers
Deborah Netolicky talks with Summer Howarth about learning design, teaching, student voice, and really partnering with young people in the work of education. Summer spends her days championing teachers and positioning students as partners in learning. She is a key figure behind some of Australia’s most forward-thinking learning and innovation strategies for education systems including positioning students as decision makers in their learning with the Northern Territory Learning Commission, the NSW DOVES the NT Youth Voice Peak Group. She has delivered projects and professional development alongside teams including ACER, ACEL, CSE, The Global Education Taskforce on the UNSDGs, IDEO’s Teacher Guild, and Melbourne University, as well as extensive student voice consultation for governments including NT, SA and NSW.
Want to know more?
- Eventful Learning: https://eventfullearning.co/
- NTLC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l37Hx2yLOhg&t=45s
- DOVES: https://education.nsw.gov.au/student-wellbeing/student-voices/minister-s-student-council/about-the-ministers-student-council
- Student Voice in Your School (a recording for VIC State Principals) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zviVAswHmTY&t=385s
- SA Student Forum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcod2uzhIKs
- Be You Educator Support: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkNpRhsDVvE&list=PLsJGIj4uveIasik_VnGwbMO6HDIOWkgD6&index=2
Join the conversation on social media.
- Summer: @EduSum on Twitter and @sumhow on Instagram.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

Dec 10, 2022 • 45min
Michael Fullan on education leadership, equity, collaboration, and change
Deborah Netolicky talks with Professor Michael Fullan about what does and should drive education, what educators might consider in their work, and the ways in which practitioners can influence systems. Michael is the Global Leadership Director of New Pedagogies for Deep Learning, and a worldwide authority on education reform. He is former Dean of the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education, of the University of Toronto, and received the Order of Canada in 2012. He is author of more than 40 books and holds honorary doctorates from several universities in North America and abroad. His books include ‘Spirit Work and the Science of Collaboration’, ‘Nuance: Why Some Leaders Succeed and Others Fail’, and ‘Deep Learning: Engage the World, Change the World’.
Want to know more?
- Michael’s website: https://michaelfullan.ca/
- Deep Learning: http://www.deep-learning.global
Join the conversation on social media.
- Michael: @MichaelFullan1 on Twitter.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

Nov 26, 2022 • 44min
Rania Sawalhi on leadership and humanity in education
Deborah Netolicky talks with Dr Rania Sawalhi about pracademia, education in Qatar, Islamic-based leadership, women in educational leadership, psychological support for students, and humanity in education. Rania has more than 20 years of experience in K-12 and higher education, and has worked as teacher, vice principal, principal of an international school, strategic manager, researcher, and lecturer. Rania has won several awards such as ICSEI/JPCC 2020 Innovation Award for designing a female empowerment program which included career readiness and social innovation, and she was a Study UK alumni awards finalist for social impact. In 2019, Rania completed her PhD Educational Leadership from University of Warwick and has published a research in books and peer-reviewed journals. Rania is a co-founder and Director of Edu-enterprise a non-profit organization registered in USA. She has launched the Educational Leadership Lab and launched Rushd educational leadership coaching e-platform. She is a co-founder of WomenEdMENA, LIFE, and ICSEI_ELN co-coordinator.
Want to know more?
- Rania’s Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=XIwgZikAAAAJ&hl=en
Join the conversation on social media.
- Rania: @RaniaSawalhi on Twitter and @raniasawalhi on Instagram.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

Nov 12, 2022 • 45min
Alma Harris on education leadership, networks and policy
Deborah Netolicky talks with Professor Alma Harris about leadership, networks, the teaching profession, and education policy. Alma is a Professor Emeritus at Swansea University, specialising in Education Policy and School Improvement. She has held Professorial posts at the University of Warwick, University College London, the University of Malaya, and the University of Bath. In 2009-2012, she was appointed to the Welsh Government as a senior policy adviser to assist with the process of system-wide reform. Since 2009, she has worked for the World Bank contributing to development and research programs aimed at supporting schools in challenging contexts in Russia. She is a Visiting Professor at the Moscow Higher School of Economics and the University of Southampton, and Past President of the International Congress for School Effectiveness and School Improvement. She is currently an international adviser to the First Minister of Scotland.
Want to know more?
- Alma’s Google Scholar profile: https://scholar.google.com.au/citations?user=aJMrEK0AAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao
- School Leadership & Management journal: https://www.tandfonline.com/journals/cslm20
Join the conversation on social media.
- Alma: @AlmaHarris1 on Twitter.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.

Oct 29, 2022 • 44min
Andy Hargreaves on identity, influence and research in education
Deborah Netolicky talks with Professor Andy Hargreaves about identity, wellbeing, student engagement, education research, and influence in education. Andy is Director of Chenine (Change, Engagement and Innovation in Education) at the University of Ottawa, Emeritus Professor at Boston College, and Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts. He is a member of the National Academy of Education, former President of the International Congress of School Effectiveness and Improvement, former Adviser in Education to the Premier of Ontario, and current adviser to the First Minister of Scotland. He has published more than 30 books and has 8 Outstanding Writing Awards. He has been honoured in Canada, the US, and UK for services to public education and educational research and is ranked by US Education Week as the #15 scholar with most influence on US education policy debate. Andy holds Honorary Doctorates from the Education University of Hong Kong and the University of Uppsala in Sweden. His most recent books are Well-being in Schools: Three Forces that Will Uplift Your Students in a Volatile World with Dennis Shirley, Five Paths of Student Engagement with Dennis Shirley, and Moving: A Memoir of Education and Social Mobility.
Want to know more?
- Andy’s website: https://www.andyhargreaves.com/
Join the conversation on social media.
- Andy: @HargreavesBC on Twitter.
- Deb: @debsnet on Twitter and @theeeduflaneuse on Instagram.
- The Edu Salon: @theedusalon on Twitter and Instagram.