VO BOSS

The stage is set, the mic is on, and the cue is yours. In this episode, stand-up comic and voice actor Tom Sawyer shares his golden nuggets for aspiring voice talents hoping to benefit from the power of comedy. From the importance of having fun in the booth to taking a well-deserved break, and the power of belief in oneself, Tom is a reservoir of invaluable insights. We talk about standing out in a sea of talents, catching the ears of the right casting person, and the art of continuous learning. But remember, feedback is the breakfast of champions, and as Tom says, it's all about enhancing your performance. Get ready, it's showtime! About Tom Tom Sawyer ran lengendary San Francisco comedy club, Cobb's for over 30 years. After stepping away from the comedy business, Tom was encouraged to explore voice acting by after famed comedian and voice actor Carlos Alazraqui (Rocco's Modern World, the Taco Bell Chihuahua) who knew Tom was an excellent celebrity impersonator. Tom signed with JE Talent in San Francisco and Aperture Talent in Los Angeles in 2017, and the rest is history. https://kitcaster.com/tom-sawyer/ 0:00:01 - Announcer It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Ann Gangusa. 0:00:20 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza and today I am super excited to be here with very special guest actor, comedian, entrepreneur oh my God, the list goes on Tom Sawyer. Tom ran the legendary San Francisco Comedy Club Cubs for over 30 years booking legendary greats, and this list just goes on and on, but I'll give you just a few of them Jerry Seinfeld, dana Carvey, Bob Saget, Jim Carrey, Rita Rudner, Joe Rogan, Sarah Silverman and the list just goes on. He stayed on as a booker until 2012 and then ultimately stepped away from the comedy business. After that, he was encouraged to explore voice acting by famed comedian and voice actor Carlos Ellsrocki, a good friend of his. He signed on with JE Talent in San Francisco and Aperture Talent in LA in 2017, and the rest, they say, is history. But boy, we've got a lot of history I'd like to talk to you about, tom. Thank you so much for joining us and welcome. Thank you for having me. Oh, it's my pleasure. So, gosh, there's so many things I want to start with. I mean the first tell. You have such a large history of comedy, so, of course, I'm sure a very common question you get asked is were you a funny kid, or have you always loved comedy? What is it that drew you to comedy? 0:01:44 - Tom Well, yeah, I was the kid in the back of the class making all the other kids laugh, so that was where I started and I always did impressions. So when I was a kid I was doing Don Adams from Get Smart and Ed Sullivan and Richard Nixon and you know, it's probably a little weird seeing an eight-year-old doing Richard Nixon but that's what I was doing. When I was very young I realized I could do voices and never stopped and that's what kind of led me to voiceover when I got out of the comedy club business. 0:02:15 - Anne But boy, there was a long history of being in the comedy business. I label you as entrepreneur 20 times over because I think just following that passion of yours and then ultimately opening up a club that literally was just famed and just housing some of the comedy greats. Tell me a little bit about that history. I mean, that is just so, so fun and impressive. 0:02:36 - Tom Yeah, actually, I went to San Francisco to become a stand-up comic and there were all these clubs, the Punchline and the Holy City Zoo and the other cafe. They were very packed all the time and getting stage time there was next to impossible. Or you'd get on at one o'clock in the morning in front of a very tired, very small, very drunk audience. And then there was this little. 0:02:55 - Anne Sometimes that helps, I'm not sure Mostly doesn't, oh okay. 0:03:00 - Tom But there was this little club in the Marina District in San Francisco called Cobb's Pub and they were trying to do comedy there and there was no audience, but there was stage time. You could get on stage there. In fact, sometimes you couldn't get off stage because there was no one there to take over, so you had to stretch, stretch and that was terrifying sometimes. Especially if you're the third or fourth comic going, hey, where are you from? And the audience goes we all know where we're from, so stop asking. 0:03:29 - Anne That's so funny. I just wanted to say that a lot of my actor friends I feel like being on that comedy stage is like a rite of passage almost, and it's probably I would think one of the toughest things to do is to stand on stage like that and try to make people laugh. I mean, that's just to me it's comedy without a net. Yeah, exactly. 0:03:48 - Tom And the thing is it's like you're stuck there, literally. You have an allotted time that you have to perform and they give you 10 minutes. You have to do 10 minutes, doesn't matter if it's horrible right from the word jump, you're on stage for those 10 minutes. That's the time you have to do and that's one of the things you learn right away is like if you get on stage early. you're not going to get back on stage. So you have to go through the rite of passage of bombing, and I've seen comics bomb from Paula Poundstone, kevin Meany, kevin Nealon, the list goes on and on. Every comic has bombed. But even later on you get in front of an audience that just doesn't dig you. 0:04:27 - Anne And again, nowhere to go. You can't run off the stage. 0:04:31 - Tom You're mean, I get that. 0:04:38 - Anne And it's funny because I literally I just went to a comedy club a couple of weeks ago and I was thinking about that, like what do you do? I mean, they are there until the next comedian is called on stage. And it feels interesting as being a part of the audience, because a lot of times I think, as the audience, you are part of maybe not part of the act, but it's very interactive, it's very back and forth and engaging because, of course, you're trying to make us laugh. 0:05:02 - Tom Yeah, you have to communicate to the audience without really engaging the audience, because you're the boss on stage, you're kind of like the crowd master and you're crowd control and entertainment at the same time. And because comedy, some people feel like, oh, I'm going to be as funny as the comic. 0:05:22 - Anne And that's when things get really sideways. 0:05:24 - Tom You're there to be entertained. Sit back, relax and leave the talking or the driving to the person with the microphone. So you got some stage time on Cobbs and and then I realized that I just kept seeing these shows that weren't very good. The guy who was booking the club at the time wasn't doing a great job, and I was a big fan of stand up as well. So I started thinking about what I would do instead, and then I started telling the owner at the time first owner of Cobbs. I was telling him you know, here's what I would do differently, and then I could tell him at the beginning of the show how the show was going to fail. And then he was started realizing that everything I was saying was happening and he went what do I get to lose? We're doing horrible business. And so he gave me the job of booking and from there I started getting the people I really, really like to perform and it started going great and we went from being like about 20% capacity to 90% capacity in about a year. 0:06:23 - Anne So let me ask you a question that, to me, is very interesting how do you get, at the time, the talents that you booked? I mean, they were big names. Were they big names then? And how did you get them to book? I mean, that's a skill, right? It's something that we do in our businesses every day, right? We've got to try to get clients to like us and to work with us. So how did you do that? Did you have a secret? 0:06:42 - Tom Yeah, my secret was I paid really well. 0:06:45 - Anne Okay, okay, that's a good piece. 0:06:48 - Tom My biggest competition, which was twice the size of our club. We were out paying that Because we decided that the most important thing was getting butts in the chairs and the only way to do that was having acts that actually brought an audience. So the only way to do that was to offer these guys more of an opportunity to make more money. So we would give them a percentage of the door and say, hey, the more people come to see you, the more you're gonna make. And because of that we had people that would call up and go, hey, I'm gonna be on the Tonight Show in six weeks with Johnny Carson, do you have anything open? And I would move stuff around and get them in there and then I would get a Tonight Show plug or a Letterman plug or Arsenio Hall. At the time and that was kind of my thing was I'm gonna pay everybody. Really well, so everybody could. Percentage of the door. In the early days before all the big agencies came in, sure, and remember this was at a time where there were just like a couple agencies doing personal appearances for comedians. Comedians were pretty much on their own. They were doing their business themselves. So if I wanted Bob Sagan, I'd call Bob Sagan, so I get his number from another comic and everybody was kind of looking for each other and I would bring one comic in. They'd go, hey, you should book these guys. And I go, okay, great, and call them up. And they'd go, right, when can you give them me a date? And I'd give them a date. Plus, we flew people up and we put them up in the hotels. So we didn't personally make a ton of money. That wasn't my thing. My thing was having the best shows I could possibly have and making a name right. And making a name for the club? 0:08:24 - Anne Absolutely, and that's interesting because, again, I like to talk about the entrepreneurial business side of what we do as creatives and freelancers, and there's a lot of thinking outside the box and also recognizing the value of the talent, that if you wanna put out great work, then you wanna hire a talent that's amazing and great and pay them fairly and absolutely. And so talk to me a little bit about the networking aspect. I mean, the cash is a good draw, but you also had to communicate effectively, I would say, to really book these talent. 0:08:58 - Tom Well, the thing that separated me from everybody else, besides being generous with the money that was brought in, was that I knew what they were going through, no matter what it was going on on stage. If they were dealing with a heckler, I'd gone through that as a comedian. If they were bombing, I knew that pain, so I could empathize with them, I could be their counselor, I could give them advice. I looked at it like I wasn't really a good comedian, and mainly that was because I wasn't true to who I am personally. So my mantra after that was be yourself. 0:09:32 - Anne I love that. 0:09:33 - Tom Yeah, that's who I wasn't. I was trying to fit in and have everybody like me and that really affected the quality of my stand up because I wasn't being true to me. So that was my mantra to everybody be yourself. Because nobody can take that away from you. 0:09:49 - Anne That's so interesting because I never ventured into comedy myself. However, I find that people find me the most funny when I am being my dorky self and I'm making mistakes and I'm just being oops, sorry, and I think in voiceover as well. I wanna talk more about that. I think it's all about being authentic and being yourself and that's really, I think, what connects you to people and engages you to people and endears you to people. 0:10:14 - Tom Yeah, I think it's really important when you get a job, and especially if it's somebody you want to get more bookings from play around, have fun. I mean, I booked a video game and the first thing we did we went through several of the lines I had to do and then we went through all those and I just did just the lines, basically no acting or anything like that and they went. Yep, that's about it. I went great, thank you. 0:10:33 - Anne Love it, love it, bye, bye. 0:10:35 - Tom So everybody started laughing. It loosens everybody up and that's really it's just. Don't be a pain on the ass. Realize that you're always learning. They're always learning. Everybody's a professional too, and so be courteous and nice and smart and be entertaining. You are the talent, so show some talent as a professional as well. 0:10:53 - Anne Show some talent. I love that. So talk about in the transition while booking talent. So you did that for a very long time, I mean 30 years, and so, wow, I mean, was there a point? I mean, were you just so busy for 30 years Did you think about voiceover? Was that a thought in your head or something that you would do, or you just were completely. You loved running the club and booking talent. 0:11:18 - Tom Prior to moving to San Francisco, I lived in Florida, lived in Sarasota, Florida, and I did a lot of theater there. That's why, I fell in love with theater and acting. You know, I always thought like, oh, stand up might be a good gateway to getting into acting, but then I got into the business end of it. So I didn't really think about it until I got out and I didn't know what I was gonna do. And I was talking to Carlos and he said dude, you do so many voices and stuff. You'd be great at voice acting. Cause I've always done impressions, never stopped doing impressions. In fact I would teach other people like Kevin Pollack or something, if they had an oppression and they couldn't figure it quite out. They were doing it but they weren't quite right. We'd kind of jam and help them get there, or they would help me get there and we'd all do our really weird outside the box impersonations. You'd have to spend five minutes explaining who that guy is Right right right. 0:12:07 - Anne So you can't do that one. 0:12:09 - Tom But for comics, we love doing those, especially impersonators, impressionists, we love doing those for other impersonators. It was kind of like our jazz moment, you know, where you get to jam behind the scenes with another musician. 0:12:20 - Anne Absolutely. 0:12:21 - Tom So Frank Calliendo, I had the club, and Dana Carvey, of course, was the master of the not perfect impression, but getting the perfect funny it didn't matter, that's what his genius is. Bye, you know, is finding the perfect funny to any voice. And then Tom Kenny played. The club started at Cobbs as well Again, the guy who did so many crazy voices. It was another inspiration for me to move there, and every once in a while I talked to him, cause I'll get a audition for something that I know is directing or in, so I go heads up and he's going dude. I have nothing to do with casting, you know sometimes they cast people and I'm scratching my head. So yeah, but I'll put in a good word for you. 0:12:58 - Anne So Well, hey again, networking totally helps. Now comedy skill. I think comedy is a skill and art form. What are your thoughts on that? 0:13:07 - Tom I mean cause, oh, absolutely. 0:13:08 - Anne Yeah, it's not something that I can go on a stage and execute. 0:13:11 - Tom Yeah, it's like anything else I personally believe. my philosophy is we all have a gift somewhere along the line. We might not be in a position ever to know what that gift is, but we all have a gift and sometimes there are people out there have more than a couple fair, but there's also people who just don't ever find theirs. And I think that the idea is you know to try to discover who you are and your strengths, weaknesses. Stay away from those weaknesses and hurdle towards your strengths, you know, and don't get locked up into one thing to always be on the road to discovery. 0:13:42 - Anne I guess I want to ask you first of all about once you got into voice acting and then was it like you were always wanting to book a certain genre because you've had lots of characters inside of you that wanted to come out? Or did you find any of the genres outside of character Interesting, because I'm a believer that you're a character in just about everything you do, even if you're doing e-learning. 0:14:05 - Tom Yeah, I always try to find a person, even when it's just one of those hey, you're a dad, or hey, you're a regular guy. Or I just had an audition yesterday where you're just a regular father, you know it's regular. But the line said something else, you know. So I gave one as what they were saying and then one. That's what I felt the lines were doing. It was a subtle difference, but it was a difference that maybe whoever put this together wants to see. If somebody figured it out, or they didn't know that's where they were going and they don't know. Sometimes they don't even know until they hear it. So give them what you think they want, and then give them what they say they want. 0:14:39 - Anne So interesting. I guess I would talk to you then about writing right, especially now that you've transitioned in voice acting and you're given a script right, or you're given an audition and finding the humor. Sometimes there's subtleties in that humor, sometimes it's obvious. Are there telltale signs to look out for? And then, once you do see it, is there a specific way that you feel it should be performed? Should it be performed in the obvious way? Or maybe, if you wanna capture the ear of the casting director, you do something different? 0:15:08 - Tom Well, I think you know what you do with a couple takes is you do the one that's on the page and then you do the one that where you think they go or where you can go with it to show what you can bring to the party. I always like to find the humor in something, especially if it says it's humorous, you know, and then play around with it and add a little bit, do a little improv with it, find a little spontaneity into there, or sometimes I'll even rewrite a line, cause I think it's kind of like flat, so I'll make it a little funnier. A punchier. 0:15:36 - Anne Okay, now that gives me a segue into a question In terms of with the script, in terms of improv right For an audition, are you improving in the audition and or improving the line, and at what point do you feel that people may go too far if you're completely rewriting, or do you think that's offensive maybe? 0:15:54 - Tom I think you have to be pretty subtle in rewriting. I think you do run the risk of people going why do I bother sending you a script? Cause you're adding all this stuff to it. So you pick and choose your moments. You know I've done that before, I've added jokes. But I'll listen to it again and go okay, that's a little too much. Plus, I want to have them. I don't want the person thinking after the third one, is he gonna go back to the script or what you know. So I wanna pick and choose my moments and make sure that I think of the funniest, the ones that have the most oomph. You want them to land, and so era on the side of too few than too many. 0:16:33 - Anne Let's talk about character development for you, especially because you're an impressionist. So how can you take, let's say, and you don't necessarily wanna have a character that's just after a particular person, but you wanna develop it into your own character. Is there a formula or a process for that, in terms of developing new characters? 0:16:51 - Tom Well, I have a book of all the impersonations I do, well, a book with the impersonations I do. And then I have like one that's like the ones I do pretty right on, and the ones I do that are just kind of soft. I don't really have it down, but that's great because it's a character. 0:17:07 - Anne Do you have a number for that? Somebody wants to have how many characters in their arsenal, how many to build off of. 0:17:13 - Tom Every day that I can figure out how to do a different celebrity or something like that. I write it down in the book Cause it comes to you sometimes. I mean, when I figured out how to do Robin Williams, it just was an accident. It's one of those things where you find a word and all of a sudden. Then you find a place in your throat and you're doing it and you can't stop. 0:17:32 - Anne It's crazy so it just never stops. I love it, I love it. 0:17:37 - Tom So one day I did Robin for Robin and that didn't go so well, apparently I didn't know he doesn't like his voice, apparently being impersonated. You didn't like that. No, it's really a very awkward Cause. I thought it'd be a lot of fun. 0:17:50 - Anne Yeah, and that's interesting because I'm curious about that. You know, celebrities like their voices impersonated, or now we've got a whole another, a whole another digital thing to be thinking about, when voices might be impersonated or turned into right With synthetic voices. But that might be another podcast. 0:18:10 - Tom That's a little scary. 0:18:11 - Anne That's a scary one, absolutely. 0:18:13 - Tom The thing about it is is like the flaws, like, let's say, go back to Dana Carvey, cause again there aren't many that he does right on, he'll leave me be the first to admit it. He's not like somebody like Frank Caliendo, who's just like amazing. He's verbatim, you can hear the voice. He's somebody who can do a sound alike. Dana could never do a sound alike, but he gets people's caricature down. That's the thing is it's like, and that's kind of what makes it funny is the imperfections is going up, finding those words. I just, you know, I used to do Bruce Stern and a lot of people kind of forgot who he was, and then one day I just was doing it for somebody to just start laughing Cause they didn't even remember who that Bruce Stern was. But it's just his voice is funny, you know, cause he has a kind of voice like that and it's very inquisitive either. Everything goes up at the end Doesn't make a darn gosh darn bit of difference, and not sometimes he gets crazy. But and so you find those little imperfections actually make a character and make it really funny. That's what I like to do. You know, I did a animation pilot and it was like a hippie character and I was going through a bunch of voices with a writer cause they booked me and they didn't feel like they wanted to do something different with it. They said what can you do? And I was going through my book and I started doing Nick Nolte and they loved it and then you ended up going with that over what they originally had, with me doing it. 0:19:37 - Anne So I love how you have a book with everything written down. Now, do you also have audio files that go along with that, so that you can help yourself get into words? 0:19:45 - Tom Yeah, I have one where it's all my impressions, so that way I can go back. And how do I do that? One Cause I don't practice them all the time. Cause. 0:19:54 - Anne I have life. 0:19:55 - Tom So, and I don't want to be walking around talking to myself, of course, of course. Man, it's got so many voices. 0:20:00 - Anne So are you writing down then the name and then you write down the qualities of the characteristics or how you get into it. Is it a kick phrase? Maybe that gets you into the character. 0:20:10 - Tom Well, there's certain words, for example, you know, I came up with for Christopher Walk and I came up with the word pantaloon being the perfect Christopher Walken word. I'm thinking cowbell but that's yeah, cause. Well, that's, this is before cowbell yeah, before cowbell. 0:20:26 - Anne But pantaloon automatically gets me there. I love it. I love it Cause I say it. 0:20:33 - Tom I can't help but do more. Christopher Walken, who doesn't like a nice pair of pantaloons? 0:20:43 - Anne I love it. I love it. 0:20:44 - Tom Cause you want your calves exposed. So yeah, and then with Kurt Douglas, it was horse, oh Horse, okay, I'm going to read my horse. If I say horse, I go into Kurt Douglas Well. 0:21:01 - Anne I think there's something always so obviously so entertaining, but something that just draws people to comedy. What are your thoughts about this crazy, chaotic world that we live in today, and where does comedy sit now, I mean, in terms of how important is it? 0:21:17 - Tom I think comedy is as important as it ever was. And it's in a weird place right now, cause I think a lot of people are reacting to people saying words and there's a lot of people getting offended easily and comedy is not for those folks that have thin skin, both sides of it. I find it funny that I think a lot of comics right now have thin skin as far as getting some criticism back, cause it's also about growth. What was funny in 1970, if you listened to comedy in 1970 or the 80s, it's not as funny now. In some of it's just not funny at all. We grow, we expand, we move on, and to me, that's what's great about comedy is it's about adapting. You're always adapting. You're always growing, as you should be as a person. So to me, if you're moving the ball forward constantly in your life, you're gonna be a better person than you were 10 years ago. So why not take that to comedy? Absolutely, the things that were funny like 15, 20 years ago are real cringy right now, and it's not because they weren't funny back then. They were. It's the same reason I get upset with people who go back like 20 years and go. I can't believe you said that back then. 0:22:28 - Anne Well, back then that wasn't offensive. 0:22:30 - Tom Exactly, we didn't find that offensive back then. Now we've all grown up and we've all moved on a bit and we understand that's not the same. But don't punish me for something that was okay Back then. Mark Twain, who wrote a famous book about a guy named Tom Sawyer, had a lot of cringy stuff in his books. There's still masterworks of literature, but those were the times. We have to accept. That's where those books came and there were a reflection of those times. Same way we would stand up. So to me it's just about. Everybody just needs to grow up. Everybody needs to understand where everybody was back then and where they are now and be better for them. 0:23:06 - Anne Yeah, yeah. Do you find that you miss owning a comedy club or booking talent or having that in your life? 0:23:12 - Tom I miss working with young comics. That's the thing I miss the most and it was actually when I started. The last version of Cubs when it exists now, because it's a 400-seat room has really amazing acts, but they're much bigger acts and they generally bring their own acts with them, and comedians who can bring their own acts generally don't bring really really great acts because they don't want to have to work as hard. I would make comics work hard because I would have really good acts going on before them. Sure, so they have to try to continually stand tall, so they had to keep their game. My thing was like Interesting strategy. I like that yeah yeah, absolutely Nobody could coast. And then later on it was comics they would bring in. I didn't think they were as talented as some of the people I could book with these guys, and so I wasn't really working with the comics anymore as much as I used to, and so that's one of the things about smaller room is you can get to work with younger comics and you get to tell them the dos and the don'ts and hopefully guide them to a path where they can be their best selves on stage. Sure, that part I miss. 0:24:14 - Anne And actually, speaking of that, what sort of advice would you give to voice talent out there that want to continually up their game and stay on top of the voiceover game, because, boy, it's competitive out there, super competitive. 0:24:27 - Tom It's crazy, it's crazy. 0:24:29 - Anne Like just as I'm sure it was in comedy and being in the club. It's such a mental game a lot of the times too. 0:24:34 - Tom Yeah, the nice thing about voiceover having been a stage actor very early in my life is you don't see the person who you're auditioning for, so you don't see that look, as soon as you hit the stage, that you've already lost your audition. You're not the person they're looking for, and that's so disheartening sometimes so at least you go into every audition with this could? 0:24:56 - Anne be the one. 0:24:57 - Tom And I love auditioning, so I love going into another character or finding something I haven't found before, or even sometimes there's a couple of characters I do that I think, oh man, this one is definitely gonna find a home someplace. It's just a matter of getting in front of the right casting person hearing it. So I'll bring out those guys every now and then, when it's the right opportunity for those characters, cause they're like they're my buddies. I want them to succeed. Yeah, I think just have fun in the booth is the main thing, and if you need to take a break, tell your agent I need to take a break. I mean, I talked to other voice actors and it gets a little depressing. Everybody came in this business thinking that everybody always said I should be in voice acting and everybody always said this is what I should be doing and I did it and nothing's happening. 0:25:43 - Anne Yeah, what's your advice for that? Because that becomes like a mind game. It becomes like oh my God, I've done all this work, what else can I do? I mean, what would you suggest in terms of getting work? It seems like the question I get most often as a coach is like so all right, I've got this great demo now and had this great coaching, and so now, where's the work? How do I get the work? Or how do I stand out? 0:26:04 - Tom I think the thing about it is acting as a lottery. You're buying a lottery ticket is what you're doing. I mean, carlos Alice Rocky was a comic Lucky, had a job, state entertainment state creative, but it was getting the Taco Bell, chihuahua and all those people you auditioned from and he hit it, hit the lottery, you know so, and from there he's done so many other things. But when I say who Carlos Alice Rocky is, when I bring him up, I always go the Taco Bell, chihuahua guy and they go oh, I love that. So it's the same thing where you just go, my lottery ticket is gonna come and you're gonna believe in yourself. When you believe in your talent and talk to other people in the business too. Just do classes I think it's still a good idea to do, just as even a workout session. Plus, you get some inspiration from other people who have a different style, maybe that you see something in yourself or you bring out something in yourself you didn't know was there. So I would say, take a class every now and then network with other people who just to have support, just so, hey, I'm here for you when you're down on yourself, in the same way that if I need somebody to talk to and say, hey, I'm really kind of wondering what the hell I'm doing here. And they can talk you down from being sad or lift your spirits up and let you know you're really a talented person. That's why you got into this whole thing in the first place. 0:27:16 - Anne Yeah, I think that self-sabotage can happen to the best of us even. 0:27:20 - Tom And then sometimes you'll hear it in the reads. I mean, again, I'll go into a class and you can tell the person who's been beat down on pretty bad by themselves, mostly Cause do you have an agent? Yeah, do you have a demo? Yeah, well, you're doing all the right things and I think it's good to have an agent or two that are giving you good feedback or giving you feedback. 0:27:40 - Anne I was with an agency that way too many people. 0:27:43 - Tom The poop sticks agency you have 400 people that they represent and you just go. That's too many. I don't feel special when you're just going okay. You got a demo, you're in. So I think, being with a smaller agency, that's a little more hands-on. Both my agents give me feedback every time, even if it's just a nice job. Yeah, and because of that I feel like I'm better for it, because I already know if I see a script, I know exactly what kind of read in the ballpark I need to be, so that's what I'm gonna get back. I'm at the point now where I really get back oh, you need to do this, this is too much, and something like that. So it's always I recognize what I'm working with right away. I do it, get it out, get the feedback, forget about it. 0:28:26 - Anne That's what you gotta do. I think a lot of people really crave feedback in this industry because we are just in our studios, kind of just talking into our little four padded walls, and so a lot of times it's hard when you don't get feedback and it's interesting. 0:28:40 - Tom Yeah, especially if you don't have a partner in a relationship, you know where you can at least go hey, honey, what do you think of this? 0:28:47 - Anne Yeah, you can bounce it off. 0:28:48 - Tom I don't bother my wife with everything, but every once in a while, you know, I go. You know, what do you think of this? Or she'll hear me and she'll go. I need to hear the whole thing. She'll hear me in my booth screaming, you know. And then now she has to hear all the stuff I did in that character. 0:29:04 - Anne I love what you said about well, at least when you're in front of a stage, I can, you can get that reaction from the audience. You know that, if you've bombed or not already, and the fact that when you're in your studio you actually use the fact that you're not in front of an audience as a creative kind of positive outlook, that you can be creative and not have to face that which is so interesting from, let's say, somebody that doesn't necessarily or hasn't started from being on stage. They might've worked a corporate job and now all of a sudden they're getting into character acting, and so they don't have that perspective. So I really like that perspective of taking the challenge and I think the creativity has to be in your brain, your imagination. You have to imagine that character in that scene, which is so difficult for some people. Do you have any tips on how to really create a scene realistically while you're sitting here in your studio? 0:29:53 - Tom Yeah, I think the most important thing, especially when you get those video games where it's like one line, one line, one line, one line, five, one lines and they're like hey, don't touch that rock and you're going. How are these people going to book somebody based on five lines that are no more than 10 words for the longest one? and you're going, how am I gonna stand out in front of anybody? So you gotta kind of create a scene around those and those. I generally will write a bigger scene for the line and then because I'll have the line in there and I'll make sure that it doesn't bleed into the other words that I'm saying, but that gives me a little bit more emotional pop for that line. 0:30:35 - Anne Are you developing the characters that you're interacting with as well? 0:30:38 - Tom I know who I'm talking to. Yeah, so I might not have the character fully developed, but I know who I'm talking to. 0:30:44 - Anne Right, and what's happening in that scene? And what's happening, yeah, and you actually write that down. 0:30:48 - Tom I'll go on Word, I'll cut and paste the lines and then I'll put words around the line and highlight the line that is actually in it. So I have all the other words and a highlighted line to make sure I hit that one. But I know what's going on and I try to create more around it. 0:31:05 - Anne So how long would you say do you spend, let's say, analyzing and doing all that work? How long would you say you take for an audition to kind of do that creating the scene and writing that down before you go in and record? 0:31:17 - Tom It depends on my schedule and what I have to do and also how much I think something is really in my wheelhouse. I mean there's things you get where it's like I knock it out in 10 minutes because I really have a solid idea of what I'm gonna do with it and I go and do it and I listen to. It sounds good. With characters, though, with video games and animation, I really like to do as much as I possibly can. I remember I did this video game audition where the character was cockney. I called my dialect coach and we went through the whole thing together. It was like a class for me. I thought this was a good opportunity to have a little class on doing a cockney accent and I said can I book our session with you? And we just worked on the script I was auditioning for because I really I loved it and I really wanted to nail it and, regardless, I got a class out of it. So it did two things for me helped me learn, and I put that learning to immediate use. 0:32:11 - Anne Absolutely absolutely. 0:32:13 - Tom And again, that's a really good thing to do is have a network of people, find a good dialect coach, find people that are teachers or coaches that you can work with, that you can go to and use them when you need, when you're stuck or when you just need something. Had a Pixar audition that I did and the character was obviously somebody from Eastern Europe and I had a friend who's from Ukraine and we went through the script and she helped me with some of the pronunciations and I didn't book it but I really felt confident sending it in. 0:32:45 - Anne I really felt like I nailed it Exactly. I love that because you've gotten the worth out of it, whether you booked it or not. So that's the other thing. So when you really are excited about something and you do all that work and you feel like you nailed the audition, but then you didn't book it, thoughts on how to stop that from getting you all upset and, oh my God, that's it. 0:33:03 - Tom Well, it's sort of like you still have to go. This is out of my control. I have no idea what the other person at the other end is going through what they've got in front of them. If they end up going with somebody that they've already booked for something and they can give them another character because union rules and it's like you did a really good job, maybe even better than that person but they're already booked and they don't have to pay another person to do that voice. They can do up to three voices and not get a penny more. So they go. Let's just give them that, so you don't know all the little things that transpire for somebody to get that part over you. 0:33:35 - Anne Yeah, and I think it's important for people to understand that it doesn't necessarily reflect on a poor performance or a poor audition. 0:33:42 - Tom No, my agent is a very funny woman and my auditions who I'm getting in front of have escalated. I'm doing more Disney Pixar auditions and stuff like that and she just goes. You're feeling upwardly. 0:33:53 - Anne There you go. I love that. 0:33:56 - Tom Which I thought was hilarious, because we always think we're failing. We're not. We're all doing the best we can and we're all doing great auditions. But because I'm doing so well in my auditions, other casting people are getting interested, so I am getting in front of people that I didn't get in front of, like four or five years ago. 0:34:12 - Anne Awesome, that's awesome. So even if you don't book the job, you could be making an impression on someone that can get you maybe the next job or the job after that. 0:34:21 - Tom That's the idea. They go well. I really like that because you don't know, when I was booking COBS I would get DVDs and before that VHSs of comedians from around the country. We were very well known so I would get them from New York, boston, other parts of the country and they'd just pile up on my desk because it was excruciating for me at some times. So then at one point, when they were ready to fall over, I would just start watching them. In the beginning I would watch two or three minutes of somebody. Then it came down to just 30 seconds to a minute, because you know right away and that's how I'm sure it is for casting people. 0:34:56 - Anne You know right away if there's talent or if they were gonna be bookable absolutely or if they're right or wrong. 0:35:01 - Tom You might like them and you might wanna listen to the whole thing and you would go ah, they're just not quite right. I need a little bit of a younger voice. This is obviously somebody who's an older voice and I think it's really. I mean, I try to do what I can and have as much fun as I can, because there's gonna be probably 10 years down the road where this voice isn't gonna sound the same and I'll be doing grandpas and wizards. 0:35:22 - Anne So yeah, our voices do change as they age. I have experienced that myself. I certainly sound a whole lot different than I did 10 years ago. Well, well, this has been an amazing discussion, Tom. I so appreciate you taking the time and just dropping all these wonderful tips and tricks and words of wisdom for the boss listeners out there. 0:35:45 - Tom Yeah, yeah, have fun kids. That's the message. 0:35:47 - Anne There you go. I love that. So, bosses, I want you to take a moment and imagine a world full of passionate and powered, diverse individuals giving collectively and intentionally to create the world that they wanna see. You can make a difference. Find out more at 100voiceshoocareorg. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can network and connect with amazing people like Tom. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. 0:36:18 - Outro Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. Transcribed by https://podium.page

In a world dominated by templates and a constant push for efficiency, Anne and Lau are serving up a fresh perspective on using creativity for business success. In this episode, The Bosses dissect the art of brainstorming, the power of accountability groups, and the role of improvisation in expanding your horizon of creative thinking. Hear about our unique take on how a business coach can help you conceive novel ways to stimulate business growth. Anne and Lau also break down the process of taking a raw idea and creating a tangible vision for it through research and education. 0:00:01 - Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 0:00:20 - Anne Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here today with the lovely and most talented Law Lapides. Hey everyone, ah, law, it's a wonderful day today. A wonderful day today. It is. Yeah, I am feeling a creative spark in the air Law. 0:00:43 - Lau I felt that too. I wonder if it's change of season or with the new fall rush coming on, I don't know. There's a little mixed with vacation-ish August. We've got that spark going on. I feel it too, Anne. 0:00:56 - Anne And you know what? I just got together. As you know, we just got together with a bunch of creatives and there's nothing to help spur your creativity rather than being with more creatives. Right, I think we should talk about ways to expand your creativity, because expanding your creativity is going to help you in the booth, it's going to help you create your characters, bring something new to the table and just, I think, get a lot of fulfillment and joy out of what you do, as long as you can find the creative angle. And I'll tell you what I get so many people that want to come into the voiceover industry because they say I'm creative and I don't feel like I'm able to express that creativity. And I'm always of the belief that, no matter where you are, you can find your creativity. You just have to sometimes be a little more, maybe, resourceful than at other times, but I always feel as though you can express creativity or expand your creativity by just digging in a little deeper and thinking a little bit outside the box. 0:01:57 - Lau Absolutely. And why do they call us creatives? We're creatives because we create. We love creating. We should be creative at all times, even if we're resting or on vacation. There's all different ways we can be creative, whether you're trying a new food or a new restaurant, or you're going down a new street to look at architecture. How are we expressing our creativity in our worlds that then we take into the booth and in the studio and in the office. That directly informs the kind of business and the kind of process that we create. And you know what's funny? One of my pet peeves was you know, when you get asked on a forum what are your hobbies? What do you like to do? I don't know. I don't know how to answer that. I don't consider myself having hobbies and yet I'm a very creative force and love doing a lot of things. I just never categorize it as a hobby. I always feel like it's integrated with my identity and who I am. 0:02:55 - Anne Yeah, and it's integrated on what you do on a daily basis. And I'll tell you one area where I think that expanding your creativity or knowing how to delve deep into that part of you will help is that I have many students where you know I'm teaching acting for long form narration and a lot of times, long form narration doesn't have an obvious story to it. So I will oftentimes and I know you'll do this as well for your actors You'll tell them to create that scene, and we are constantly needing to create a scene, and I can't tell you the amount of times that I've had students say, well, that doesn't make any sense, I don't, I can't know. And I'll say give me the scene, what are you doing? What's the conversation? And they'll just be like well, this is hard. Well, your creative brain is a muscle, guys, and so I truly believe that you can exercise that muscle on a day to day basis and you can come up with scenes. You can come up with things that will allow your voiceovers to be believable and authentic and really relate to your audience that you're talking to. So one of the things that I like to do to delve deep into my creativity is I used to have this little jar where I had all these little creative ideas and it didn't have to be creative ideas for voiceover, although I think I could tailor it to that right and you would pick one idea out of the jar and it'll say create a character that is based on your favorite aunt or uncle and record a five minute monologue. Okay and so right there, it really requires you to delve deep in and focus and focus. I think focus is one of the most important things to really start to dig deep and find where your creativity is and to think about all the possible ways. Law what are some tips you have for delving deep into that creativity? 0:04:43 - Lau Ooh, what a good question. And it's like if we can make it a real thing, a technique, a process, then we could be more mindful, potentially, of doing it every day to help balance our health and our mind and our body and everything. I think that's fantastic. I would give one tip and I would say that mindfulness is something that you have to structure. So I think people think, oh, it's an aesthetic and it's sort of impulse or knee-jerk reaction. When I think of it, I do it, but really I feel like the strategy and the structure comes, the habit that you do over time and then goes from creative technique into a business strategy. So, even if it's a small thing, like every day, I wake up and I mindfully do a brain dump and I do it on paper, I speak it out loud to empty my brain. To me that's a very creative thing to do, because I could not only feel better and feel more neutralized, but I also may make discoveries about what's in my head that I didn't actually realize was there. It's subconscious stuff that's kind of rolling out and I find that very useful. Especially you and I are idea people. We're like advertising agency people, like we have to come up with ideas just like that, whether it's for a script or a delivery that helps come up with ideas. 0:06:04 - Anne I love that you segwayed so lovely into that, because I was gonna say you have to have an end goal in mind, right? I also used to scrapbook and that was one of my passions. And I say I used to, I feel bad because I really want to scrapbook. Still. Other things started taking up my time, but it used to be that I would see a picture of a scrapbook page that I thought was gorgeous and it was just a layout and I said, oh, and it was a layout of, let's say, the first date with my husband or the wedding, or it could be my hobby, where I used to ride horses, and so it would be maybe a page or a layout that I saw about that, and it would be a creative spark and that would allow me to go and delve deep into like, okay, let me go find my pictures, let me go write something about that, because in scrapbooking it's very much about journaling and one thing that I love the most about scrapbooking and I know things have gone digital, but I'll tell you what there's nothing like looking at a paper scrapbook and just thumbing through those pages of memories, looking at pictures and reading, and I absolutely it was going to capture those memories and I love just looking back on that. And so I still believe that there's something to the writing it down on a piece of paper and having something tactile that you can touch and feel, and I think the end goal can be something to start with and then kind of work backwards to think about how are you going to reach that end goal? So, perhaps in voiceover, maybe you want to create a new character, right, and your new character would be maybe some like give it a characteristic, right, you want to have that funny, dorky character? Well, okay, work backwards from that, okay. And so who is it in your life that's funny and dorky? What do they say all the time? Write that down. Those could be funny lines that you could then practice and just really shape your character to that. I think that's one good way to do that, and I love your brain dump in the beginning in the early morning, because that's great, just getting all that stuff out and then maybe setting a long-term goal for your creative Like creativity can also be. It doesn't just have to be let me create a character voice. Creative is let me get better at telling stories. So how am I going to develop my creative style to be able to tell stories better? And I want to be able to tell stories better on, let's say, really dry material. Well, I got lots of that for you because I do tons of long format narration. I can help you with that. Just go find some really dry material out there and let's figure out what's the storyline, figure out how to break it down. And again, I think number one is have that end goal. Number two is educate. Gosh, I'm such an educator, right, I mean I love education. I think along the way, if you can educate yourself. You can certainly Google storytelling, key steps for storytelling, and you can also work with someone as well to help you develop key steps for storytelling. But educating yourself like that, I think there's just nothing that can beat that. 0:08:53 - Lau You know. It's so true. When you get it down on paper, there's something that becomes real about it. To get it out of your head and do, the process of writing it down or typing it out becomes real, and then even speaking it to someone becomes even more real. Before you manifest these ideas as actual events, I'm gonna give a tip too, and I'm gonna call it alchemy. So I always feel like what we do in our craft and in our art and in our businesses as bosses is create alchemy and meaning taking nothing and creating something out of it. Unlike a magician, which I always think of magic as something where we're making something disappear or removing something or we have an illusion going on. This is a little bit different. I think of this almost more scientifically, like nothing is there and then all of a sudden, something is there and it's very real and you did it and you manifested it so creatively. Do anything you can do where nothing is there and then you create something. So, for instance, take a blank canvas, create a visual, take clay and then create something out of the clay. Or take a seed and plant it and then there's a flower, so that you can manifest the idea that my ideas may not all come true, they may not all manifest, but because they're there and they're present and I'm allowing them to come out into the world that there is a chance that alchemy can happen from that process. And that's that risk that we talk about, that's that falling off the cliff and saying, oh, sometimes things actually happen and are created out of process. So, creatively speaking, I think that's a tremendous hobby, if you will, to just practice that, practice creating something out of absolutely nothing. And now where? 0:10:40 - Anne do you go for ideas? That's a good question, right, gosh. I just say the internet is at your disposal, right? And also other creatives, right? Other creatives doing brainstorm sessions, you know those accountability groups. I mean I say take five, 10 minutes and talk about, hey, what can we do to expand creatively? And there's lots of things that can help you to expand creatively too. That's within the realm of voiceover. One of the biggest I can think of right now is improv. Right, improv is creative. Take a conversation and go with it and run with it. 0:11:10 - Lau That's the best of Alchemy, actually. Yes. 0:11:12 - Anne Exactly and just create that, but I think also getting together in brainstorming. I do have a business coach that I have had for the past gosh 12 years and I absolutely love my business coach and we brainstorm, we brainstorm. Once a month we have a session where we brainstorm and we say where is it that Anne wants her business to go? But that is a creative brainstorm and what can we do? And I'm constantly evolving. I think we had an episode on either parallel streams of income or what is your plan B, right? You should always have that backup plan. And so what else will you do to grow your business right? And that's a very creative endeavor. And for me, I'm going to tell you that the VO Peeps and the VO Boss podcast the very podcast that you're listening to, bosses was a creative endeavor because one of the things I saw was an end goal of like, oh, a podcast that sounds really cool, I wanna do that. And then I took that one idea. That was really nothing and I had said, okay, now what do I have to do? What are the steps that I have to take in order to create that right? And the first step was what's the vision for it? What is it that I wanna do, or what is it that I want to conceive and will other people and it doesn't always have to benefit other people, but for me, I wanted it to be a resource. So that was within the realm of my project scoped. Okay, I want this to be an educational resource. Now, how am I gonna get there? Right, what am I gonna do? Well, first step started brainstorming it with somebody and then educating myself on the process, and I did that a lot. When, as a scrapbooker as well, right, I saw a scrapbook page with paper flowers and I'm like I should be able to make paper flowers, like there are some really beautiful paper flowers out there. Right, there's techniques, there's things that you can do, there's all different patterns and kinds of paper and techniques, and you can crumple the paper first and then you can put layers of that with a different pattern paper. It's amazing, and I think, even if you're doing creative things that don't have to do with voiceover or don't have to do with your business, they will absolutely, number one, bring you joy if creativity is what you are seemingly lacking in your life, but it can also open your mind to doing things to propel yourself forward personally and professionally. 0:13:26 - Lau Ooh, I love that. So you're really looking the fine details, the really small little minutiae in what you're doing, rather than just the big task of it. But look at the little moments that happen, that really are like sliding doors. They really change the trajectory of where your piece or art or business is going to go based on those little tiny details. I think that that is phenomenal. I would even motivate people to be very visceral and very kinesthetic about it every day, meaning don't stay online, go outside, do something outside, like I love to go into a little bookstore and see what's in there that inspires me, that makes me excited or happy, or go get a massage or go to a movie or go I've been bike riding lately and outside Go shop yeah. I don't know. Do something that's physical and visceral bike riding, walking, whatever you're doing. Go to a restaurant, go to a diner, go sit and have french fries so that you can really observe people, look at human behavior, watch the servers smell the cooking, feel the table, and it sounds insane. But it's like we forget how to do that when we're inside too long and we're locked in too long. And that is my hobby. That is like my hobby. 0:14:45 - Anne I love that. People, people, people. Can I just reiterate people. And again, because Law-U and I just came back from a conference gosh, being around other creative people, just soaking up the energy. Not even you don't even have to be discussing things that are creative, you just have to be around other people that have that creative energy and observe them and see what they're doing and then be inspired by them and be motivated. So be open to that instead of let's say maybe I don't know, being at a conference and being I don't know like sad or feeling bad about yourself or not feeling like you're enough. I went and saw the Barbie movie, that kind of a thing. I actually always thought that for me, creatively watching wonderful media, great movies, listening to great music was always such a wonderful experience to bring out the creativity in me and to relax me, to get me thinking, to get me outside of myself, because sometimes we're so stuck inside ourselves that we cannot get out of it. And I'm gonna say this for those people who say I am so miserable in my job Okay, I get it. If you're maybe miserable in a situation where maybe you've got people around you, that it can become toxic. You're not happy, you're bored, whatever that is, I think that there's always a way in your mind creatively to get out of it, okay. So here I'm gonna get a little bit philosophical. Maybe I was the youngest child and I had three brothers and one of the things was because obviously I couldn't share a room, right, I was on my own quite a bit and my brothers would do off doing their things, having fun and doing their brother things, and I would very much, a lot of the time, be alone playing by myself. And that play time right, playtime guys, we should have playtime even as adults right, that playtime allowed me to be creative. And of course now I'm thinking of the Barbie, that I would play with my Barbies and I would play with lots of toys. I did all sorts of things with my imagination to create scenes. So it's absolutely in every one of us. I think we just have to revisit and give ourselves some time so that we can have that time for ourselves. And if you're miserable in your job, I think there's always a way to find a part of your job that you can become creative in. I say that I mean I worked gosh, I was in a couple of different industries, right, I was an educator. I loved being an educator number one because I loved learning. Learning meant that nothing was ever the same and I was able to educate. But also, in that way, I was creative. Right, I was creating classes. If I thought this was a really cool technique, I would create a class and I would teach someone. When I worked in the medical industry, you know, I was an engineer, I was trying to solve problems, and when I worked in technology and networking, I was trying to solve problems that people had, or create something so that people wouldn't experience the problems that I did. I mean, one of the reasons I created the VO Boss Blast was because I didn't have time to do a ton of auditions and I wanted to be able to direct market, and so I said I need something where I can just put my name out there to the people who might be able to hire me. And so I created the Boss Blast for myself initially, and then I said, oh my gosh, wouldn't it be great to be able to share this Boom yes, there you go. 0:18:08 - Lau In essence, you're satisfying your needs as a business owner while satisfying others' needs. Is that not perfect? I think that's a perfect alchemy right there, and a whole bunch of stuff came to my head, like go bowling, play games, collect shells on the beach, like, do stuff, do stuff, do stuff. Not only will you find what feels good and meditative and right for you, but you're really gonna make these discoveries that you can't necessarily make sitting in your room or sitting in your booth. It really is about your environment. How are you reacting to your environment and how are you informed by your environment? I know I love to dance, like I was at this conference with you, annie, and I was up half the night dancing and I couldn't move the next day because you know like my hip and my this. 0:18:57 - Anne I was insane. 0:18:58 - Lau I was a crazy person. 0:18:59 - Anne I saw you and I thought oh my God, look at her go. I loved it. I know People are like do ages dance. It made me so happy, Lau. I meant to tell you that and I was like look at her, go. She's having such a good time, and I think everyone on the dance floor that night right, it was just expressing themselves, having a good time letting go, and, again, that's something that can really help spark your creativity. 0:19:22 - Lau Yes, and there's an honesty about it, there's a purity about it. There isn't a motivation in it that we all have to do this or think this or say this, or there isn't like that we have in business, because ultimately we're trying to please the client and give them what they need. This is really not only for yourself internally, but it is for your community as well, so it satisfies both needs. And sometimes you know who your community is and sometimes it's just the world and you don't know who the community is. And it's important, I think, to relate easily and fluidly with all of that to then bring that realness to the script and bring that familiarity and authenticity to your scripts, because you've had a lot of these sensory experiences, sure you know just for yourself. 0:20:09 - Anne I think a lot of it is the creative in your brain, but it's the creative outlet as well, right, and I say outlet because that means you've got to let it out. Right, it's in your head, it's floating around. You're either gonna let it out by writing it down, by talking to someone about it, by creating something like a piece of music or a beautiful piece of art, and that is the outlet, that is the expression of creativity and that, I think, is the step that's going to come back and really give you that sense of satisfaction, fulfillment, joy, and just make sure that it gets out. I have all sorts of ideas floating around in my head. I love that. I like to think, well, okay, I've got these great ideas, now how am I going to execute that idea? Right, and again, that comes to writing it down, maybe setting a goal, working backwards from that, creating that list of things that you wanna do, talking about it to people, letting yourself go and allow yourself to be free from other garbage that's in and out of your brain. That can be bitterness, tiredness, anger, anything that's not bringing you joy. However, you release that. Again I go on a bike ride. It's really done wonders for me and I remember it was silly because for many years during the pandemic I did not do that and I just was work, work, work, work, work. And it became stressful. And I remember for 18 years this is my husband and I. I met my husband. He was my spin instructor, so I would go spinning with him three to four times a week and that was after a day's worth of work and it was such a wonderful release for me to get rid of the tension, the stress, the annoyances of the day if I had any and then it allowed to free me up to just feel joy and start to grow and be creative again. 0:21:58 - Lau I love it, and you took the words right out of my mouth I was just about to say. The ultimatum of the day is that if we don't do this for ourselves, we really run the risk that we may have self-destructive or self-sabotage tendencies, as a lot of creatives we kind of have at building. A lot yes so much the smoke coming out of the ears, the brain that hurts, the part that's pulsating. So being able to not only release that, but give yourself permission that it's really okay to take time for you and your world, and it's going to inspire you and make you healthier. It's really necessary to do otherwise. It can all be internalized and then start working against your process. 0:22:38 - Anne And you mentioned something so important self-sabotage, gosh. That just happens so much to us, doesn't it in this world? Yes, because I think we're constantly trying to judge ourselves by our perceived success and success is defined in so many different ways and I think that we have to fall down and brush ourselves off and get back up and really consider that a success and not just, oh, I've booked the gig or I got that national spot or whatever that is because that self-sabotage is destructive and we had a whole episode on that but it is so self-destructive. Am I enough? Do I belong in this industry? I felt them all, by the way, at one point or another and I think, as a human being, I think we can all say that we've probably had self-sabotage creep in to our lives at one point or another, and how you get yourself out of that can be a great testament to becoming successful understanding how to release the negative and bring in the positive and bring that creativeness back to you, your product because you are your product right and your performance. 0:23:47 - Lau I love that. This is so inspiring to me. So fuel yourself with feel-good stuff that really invites invigoration and them invigor. And if you really feel that you're being drained by it you're not your best self, it's destroying you then look elsewhere, because you're going to know the difference between something that inspires your work and fuels it and something that drains you and steals your focus. Love it. 0:24:15 - Anne Well, that's another podcast, right? How do we remove ourselves from a situation that is not bringing us joy and is not bringing our ability to create, right? So what a great conversation, law. Thank you so much. I love talking to you, law. My pleasure, I think, between the two of us. Brainstorming, I mean, we do that all the time right? We are helping one another to become more creative, and bosses, you can do that as well. So I want you to now imagine a world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals that are giving collectively and intentionally to create the world they want. It's exactly what we've been talking about, and you can find out more at 100voiceswhocareorg. All right, big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses and bring that creativity out in all of us. Have a wonderful week, guys, and we'll see you next week. See you then, bye. 0:25:13 - Outro Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL yeah. 0:25:46 - Lau Yeah, yeah, you know, okay, just why don't you try something else? No, I don't know, just take a chance, I don't know, surprise me, surprise me. 0:26:02 - Anne Surprise me with something different, and at that point it's always like walk out of the room. 0:26:07 - Lau Okay, I don't walk out of the room. Transcribed by https://podium.page

So you're thinking about hiring a virtual assistant... Ever wondered how to hire the right person for the job? The Bosses have got you covered. In this episode, Anne and Lau lay out the importance of understanding the job scope and setting realistic expectations. From sifting through rates and fees to seeking referrals and testimonials, we discuss it all. We share insights on how to prioritize, make substitutions, and be resourceful to afford the luxury of investing in your business. Remember, when hiring, the focus should be on what's best for your business, not just personal preference. So tune in, and let's build a successful business together, with a commitment second to none. Transcript Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne Ganguzza: Hey everyone, welcome to the VioBoss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Ngan Gusa, and I am here with my amazing, wonderful Boss co-host, Lau Lapides. Lau Lapides: Oh, and I'm so thrilled to be back as always in the booth. Anne Ganguzza: In the booth with the bosses. Lau Lapides: What happens in our booth stays in our booths. Well, not Anne Ganguzza: Well, Lau Lapides: really, but I Anne Ganguzza: but Lau Lapides: don't Anne Ganguzza: wait, wait. So wait, we also Lau Lapides: know about Anne Ganguzza: project Lau Lapides: that. Anne Ganguzza: that, we also project that out into the global universe there. Ha Lau Lapides: We'll have to change that tagline, I think. Anne Ganguzza: ha ha. Oh man, I'll tell you what, look, I have been so busy this week and I cannot split my time up anymore. I am one person and I'm telling you, I literally have no more hours in the day. So everybody knows that has heard me go on and on and out about. the fact that I outsource and I do have a team, I think maybe we should really talk about that because I might need to increase my team because right now I'm feeling like I don't have any more time and so how am I going to do the things that I wanna do and grow my business if I don't have the time to execute the daily tasks or whatever tasks are needed to do that law. Lau Lapides: That sounds like what my dad would always say a really good problem to have. We Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: all want to have that problem where we're growing a company, we're outgrowing what we're doing and how we're doing it, and we're Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: not spending our time wisely. We're not working smarter, we're just working harder. And really, how do we do both? Right? Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: How do we get to that next level? We call it leveling up in the biz. How do we actually do that, Ann? What Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: do we need to do? Let's talk about that. Anne Ganguzza: Well, first of all, I think it's important to note that there's a lot of people that are just getting into voiceover. And they may think to themselves, oh, my gosh, I can barely afford to be in voiceover, right? I just got in. I'm not booking gigs yet. Or maybe the gigs that I'm booking are few and far between. And so how can I even begin to think about hiring somebody or getting help? Because I can't even get a job. first. And Lau Lapides: Right. Anne Ganguzza: so guys, I want you to really this is where I think it takes courage, it takes boldness, and it takes some, I think some street smarts and savvy to really strategize how you might be able to make this work for you. Because, well, you know, while somebody might be doing some of the more maybe mundane tasks that take up a lot of your day when trying to acquire work, I mean, half of the time it's we're trying to acquire work, right, Law? Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And it's the acquiring, that getting out there, that marketing, how do I acquire, you're either auditioning or you're marketing, right? And you are the expert at auditioning, right? Maybe you're not the expert at marketing. And so therefore, if you could have someone help you with the marketing, right, it would give you more time to be the expert in auditioning and perfecting your craft or honing your performance. Lau Lapides: Right, and the truth is, whether you're a solopreneur and you're working alone, just starting out the first couple of years of your biz, or whether you're growing and starting to think about adding team members, we're all at that level. All of us are at that level of thinking about, we're marketing, we're constantly reaching out and going out and figuring out how we're gonna get our next prospect. So you never grow out of that, no matter what Anne Ganguzza: Oh, Lau Lapides: is happening, you never grow out. Anne Ganguzza: amen, Lau Lapides: But Anne Ganguzza: amen. Lau Lapides: you do have to time it well. everyone and Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: at the beginning stages I wouldn't do anything prematurely to make you know Anne Ganguzza: Agreed, Lau Lapides: go broke I Anne Ganguzza: agreed. Lau Lapides: really want to make sure you Anne Ganguzza: But Lau Lapides: have Anne Ganguzza: I Lau Lapides: a Anne Ganguzza: would Lau Lapides: little Anne Ganguzza: start Lau Lapides: bit Anne Ganguzza: strategizing. Lau Lapides: of capital Anne Ganguzza: I would Lau Lapides: start Anne Ganguzza: start Lau Lapides: strategize Anne Ganguzza: strategizing Lau Lapides: yeah Anne Ganguzza: because I think just having the thought of, or the thought that, yes, I'm going to need help at some point, you're manifesting the fact that you're going to be getting the work. I'm a big believer in the manifestation of getting work. And also, I think you're never too early to kind of plan or strategize what type of help you might need. And just, you know, it takes time to find help. It's not something typically you can get in a moment's instant. And it is something that you will have to kind of, I would say, educate yourself on in terms of, well, you know, is there a service out here that can help me to do this? Is there someone who can help me to, I don't know, write emails to prospects or maybe generate leads? What type of work could you use? I think if you start by really assessing your business. Breaking down on a piece of paper, how much time do you spend on each thing per day? How much time do you spend auditioning? How much time do you spend researching? How much time do you spend practicing? How much time do you spend on social media? I think that's a good place to start. And then find out if there is. And of course, I totally agree with you a lot with the make sure that you've got a little bit of a nest egg that you can invest. When you need somebody to help you because again, I think we've said this so many times if you want to make money You know you need to spend some money Lau Lapides: Mmm. Absolutely Anne Ganguzza: Hmm Lau Lapides: no doubt about that one. Second that notion. And I would say take a step back and look at your psychology Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: and really keep it real, really keep it real. Despite the name of our wonderful series here, you do have to realize that no one is a true superhero in doing everything yourself. And we like Anne Ganguzza: Oh Lau Lapides: to Anne Ganguzza: god, Lau Lapides: think we Anne Ganguzza: yes. Lau Lapides: are, especially us ladies like to think we are. Anne Ganguzza: Outlaw Lau Lapides: We can do everything and we're a failure if we don't. Anne Ganguzza: Can I, oh my God, can I just like say yes Lau Lapides: Amen, Anne Ganguzza: to that? Lau Lapides: amen, Anne Ganguzza: Amen Lau Lapides: say yes. Anne Ganguzza: to that. I am the biggest control freak that there is. Lau Lapides: Me too! Anne Ganguzza: And no, if you wanna get it done right, I'll just have to do it myself. But I'll tell you what, that gets old pretty soon. Once you really wanna grow, I mean, I found that I couldn't move if I didn't outsource and I didn't hire. And I kept thinking, oh God, but maybe I won't have the money. Maybe I won't have that steady stream of income that I can pay them. And I'm here to tell you that it can work if you strategize and you're smart about it. And you really take a look at the money that you have coming in and the money that you have going out. I think that really, Law, is another sit down and really look at the numbers. Number one, how much are you spending on, you know, your marketing. How much are you spending on? And when I talk about spending on marketing, if you're not hiring anybody to do your marketing, you're spending your time. And your time should be worth X amount of dollars per hour. I like to say that I am worth so much per hour. Now, if I want to break down what I do in a day and then say how much it costs me, if I'm spending an hour doing marketing, that's, you know, it's my hourly rate. And so really taking a good look at how much is coming in. how much you're putting out. And sometimes in the beginning, that's gonna be a little unequal. I'm gonna say that I had to invest a little bit more in the beginning than was coming in. And I just needed to make sure that I had a good handle on how much I could put out to be safe and still be able to pay the mortgage. Lau Lapides: And you don't want to go in and with a blind faith, you want to have Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: some real strategy behind how you're going in, especially if you're at a place typically within the first three to five years of growing a new business where you really are not making an actual salary just yet. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: You're really Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: not making the return on anything just Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: yet. And that's expected. And I think in our culture, North American business culture, I think we're sort of trained in a way that is more mythical than realistic and that is we should be making profit as quickly as possible in the Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: first five years. That's a real myth that just, Anne Ganguzza: Oh gosh, Lau Lapides: it very rarely Anne Ganguzza: it Lau Lapides: exists Anne Ganguzza: so is. Lau Lapides: that you find someone who's starting any business that in the first five years, sometimes longer, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: is making any kind of a Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Lau Lapides: profit, right? Anne Ganguzza: Please. Let's Lau Lapides: So Anne Ganguzza: say Lau Lapides: going Anne Ganguzza: that Lau Lapides: in Anne Ganguzza: again. Lau Lapides: realistically, Anne Ganguzza: Let's say that again. How Lau Lapides: yeah, Anne Ganguzza: long, Law? Lau Lapides: going in. Anne Ganguzza: Five years, if not longer. Lau Lapides: If not longer. Anne Ganguzza: If not longer. And I will tell you, for me, it was longer. You know, it was longer than the first five years. I mean, I came from a job where I was making a particular salary, and I was like, oh, I want to be able to make this salary. You know, and I always ask my students to put their goals on a piece of paper of what they want to do in the first year. after they get their demo from me and that sort of thing. And I have a lot of people, they have very high goals of basically making that six figure salary in the first year. And I'm here to say, not to crush your dreams, but I'm here to say that it may take you a little bit longer to get to that point, but that's okay, I mean, that's very normal. And as long as you are okay and you have that little kind of nest egg there that you are strategically pulling money out of investing wisely, you're going to be okay. I mean, but it's very, very normal to not make any kind of money back in the first, you know, years of your voice over business. And especially now, it's kind of a little bit crazy these days. It just Lau Lapides: Mm. Anne Ganguzza: keeps getting more and more. more and more people in the industry. And then there's a lot of hype around, you know, advancing technologies and, you know, I do believe there is, you know, are we going to have jobs in 10 years? That kind of a thing. But again, I'm very much of the mindset that we create our work, we create our businesses, and we evolve. And Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I believe we will always have a need for our human voices in Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: any aspect in the creative entertainment educational spectrum. Lau Lapides: Yeah. And I would second that. And I think that creative energy coupled with the entrepreneurial resilience Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: is really the thing, capital T-H-E, the thing that's going to help make you successful in our businesses, being able to pivot, being able to be Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: resilient. And I did want to qualify one area you brought up that I absolutely totally agree with and adore is that it's not that you're not making money Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: in your first five years. investing and reinvesting Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, absolutely. Lau Lapides: in what you need to have for your studio or have for your marketing or have for yourself. And you need to do that and in order to make money back, you need to invest money in order to make money. It isn't it's not just let me do things for free or get things Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: as cheaply as possible Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: and make as much money. Business just doesn't work that way. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: Right? Anne Ganguzza: And I think you made mention of get things as cheaply as possible. You know, we all want I think we all we all shop for a bargain. Right. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I know I do. And so you have to understand the market as well when people are shopping for a bargain that may include your voice. Right. So I think, you know, the fact that you mentioned even that law is something that we have to take into consideration. The investment that you make into your business, sometimes making it all about the amount of money you're investing isn't necessarily the object or even necessarily a wise strategy. Because I would say if you're trying to maybe skimp on demo creation or coaching or workshops, that kind of thing, I truly believe that they are worth their weight in gold for you, because that is developing your product. Lau Lapides: Yes, Anne Ganguzza: Right? Lau Lapides: yes. Anne Ganguzza: Your product is, I mean, if you don't have a product, you don't have a business. Your product is your voice. Your voice is, you know, physically, you can't, well, can you buy a new voice? Well, maybe. I mean, I don't know, but not really. I can't buy, like, I can't buy your voice law. I wish, you know, I mean, your physical voice for me. So all I can do is develop my own and Lau Lapides: Yep. Anne Ganguzza: learn how to use it. more effectively and perform my job to my client's specifications. And that investment, I think, is a wise investment. And I don't think that there isn't a cheap, good way of going about that, really. Lau Lapides: No, Anne Ganguzza: There's Lau Lapides: I had... Anne Ganguzza: less expensive, but I don't think if you go cheap, you get what you pay for. Lau Lapides: Yes, it's bringing up one of those little signs, those funny, cute characters, aluminum signs that one of my friends and former engineers bought for me on a birthday. And it was like a mechanic, you know, in front of a car. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: And it said, good work ain't cheap and cheap work ain't good. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: And I never forgot that. I was like, it's so Anne Ganguzza: Yep. Lau Lapides: cute and kitschy and silly, but yet it really bottom lines it. It's like you do get what you pay for. So pay wisely, invest Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: wisely, Anne Ganguzza: yeah, absolutely. Lau Lapides: and just know that you want to spend money in the most researched and educated and referred areas that you can, because you know it's gonna grow you. So getting back to that growing your team. Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: It's like, woo, all right, let's say we're ready to grow the team and take Anne Ganguzza: Right. Lau Lapides: on a VA, a virtual assistant, Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: or take on an accountant or taking on a marketing specialist. What are the steps that we need to be thinking about strategically so that we're staying conservative, we're staying frugal, but we're unafraid, we're coming from abundance, not fear to grow the business Anne Ganguzza: Sure, Lau Lapides: knowing that Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: I'm going to look for a return. Anne Ganguzza: Well, I'm gonna say number one, I think, you know, I think number one of everything is education, right? Educate yourself on the things that you are going to want to have outsourced or want to maybe hand off to someone else to do. If you've done them yourself, you know how much time it takes, right? If you know how much effort it goes into the creation of content, you know what can be done and what... maybe can't be done by a virtual assistant. And so I feel as though you've got to really research. I think in a lot of cases, you have to find someone who really understands you and understands your business and understands your voice. If you're going to have them help you, let's say, craft emails or generate leads or do social media, they still have to kind of understand who you are and what your brand is about because they're going to be representing you. If they're gonna be just doing something like, you know, the monthly numbers, you know, like my accountant, that's not as necessary, but still she has to be educated about, what are my expenses? Who am I paying? Who's a vendor? Who's, you know, what, you know, what is this expense for? So there will be some time, I think, that you'll spend, first of all, in educating yourself about what it is that needs to be done and the scope of that job, because that's the scope of the job that you will be having to provide anyone that you hire. And then that is going to then either there'll be a price for that and you'll decide if that price is worth paying for their services and what can they do that's realistic and what can they do, what can't they do. There can be a lot of people out there that will promise you the world, I'll do all of your social media. Well, okay, that's a pretty blanket statement. Does that mean you're going to actually... content for me on TikTok? Are you going to create videos? Or if you're going to do that I'm gonna have to provide you with videos that you can then edit and so that's another step that you're gonna have to keep in mind in the process. What's Lau Lapides: Absolutely. Anne Ganguzza: your part? What's their part? Lau Lapides: Yes, yes, and I mean, when I think of some of the mistakes that I made when I was hiring the first year or so, I won't I don't want people to make those mistakes. So think like a chess player. Think Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: like a strategy game player where you're thinking three or four steps ahead. So just because you're hiring someone in a particular area that either you are not qualified to do yourself Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: or not mean that you don't have to know what needs to be done. Anne Ganguzza: Oh god yes. Lau Lapides: So it's a very fine line of knowing as much as you can without actually becoming that Anne Ganguzza: Yes, Lau Lapides: expert Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: and not micromanaging that expert, but also being three steps ahead of that expert. So the expert... never is bored, they never are left with nothing Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: to do, and they know exactly where they're going for the next month or the quarter or even the week. Sometimes, like for instance, I'll have what I call stand up Zoom meetings at the beginning of the week, and sometimes those will continue all week Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: where we'll Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: jump on Zoom and we'll have coffee and we'll talk about our goals and we'll have a laugh and then we'll get right to it. And it has a very, it has a team cohesion to it. Anne Ganguzza: Sure, absolutely. Lau Lapides: that I find a lot of people really love and crave Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: that connection, Anne Ganguzza: Oh, absolutely. Lau Lapides: but Anne Ganguzza: I have Lau Lapides: it Anne Ganguzza: a team Lau Lapides: also keeps on top of people, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: right? Anne Ganguzza: I have a team Lau Lapides: That... Anne Ganguzza: meeting as well I have a team meeting as well once a week with you know Not everybody but once a week and then you know if I have like my accountant of course we meet you know At a particular time she doesn't have to be with the team of social media But I do have a general team that handles social media and all communications by behalf or some communications on my behalf. And so we meet once a week. And usually it's a two or three hour meeting. So it's not a short meeting. And of course I pay them for their time at that point as well. I think it's important to note that, oh gosh, finding the cheapest, you know what I mean? Assistant is not always the best solution. I really believe, again, you've got to research, look for testimonials, look for referrals. Because, you know, There's a lot of people can promise things. And I'm always very wary of people that I don't know, that are maybe outside of the industry. And so, I know Law, you and I have spoken about it. You interview, you interview people. And I do the same to make sure that I get a good feel for who they are. And if they are from the same industry, you also have to kind of keep in mind, well, is there a conflict of interest? Or is there, you do have to kind of think about that. I mean, I hate to say that, but you do. You've Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: got to think, is there a conflict of interest, or is there something that you're doing that they may be also kind of taking what you're doing and then utilizing it for themselves, which is absolutely fine in certain cases, but in other cases, it may not be fine. So, Lau Lapides: so important Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: and so you have to think about this stuff. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: Also, not to downgrade in any way services that do provide voiceover talent that become VA's. That's really great Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah, no, yeah, Lau Lapides: for Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: the talent themselves. That's a great side hustle for them. But my strategy is a little bit different. I actually do not want that. That would not Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: be something I would be looking for. for reasons that you're saying, but also, I actually find that people who are in the non-creative space, if there is such a thing, I Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: don't know, I think everyone's creative, but consider themselves a non-creative. They're more business-oriented, administrative, Anne Ganguzza: Yep, they have a different Lau Lapides: more Anne Ganguzza: perspective. Lau Lapides: numbers, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: they have no emotional Anne Ganguzza: Attachment. Lau Lapides: investment or attachment to what we are doing, and I actually Anne Ganguzza: Agreed. Lau Lapides: like that better. Anne Ganguzza: Yes, Lau Lapides: because we Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: are the emotional ones. We are the hypathos. We're what I call the crazy Anne Ganguzza: Oh, law, Lau Lapides: creatives. Anne Ganguzza: really? Are we really that? I'm Lau Lapides: We Anne Ganguzza: not a, Lau Lapides: are, Anne Ganguzza: I'm Lau Lapides: and Anne Ganguzza: not Lau Lapides: I'm Anne Ganguzza: a, Lau Lapides: one of them. Anne Ganguzza: I'm not dramatic or emotional at all. I'm just Lau Lapides: I Anne Ganguzza: saying. Lau Lapides: fully admit it. So I actually don't mind and really enjoy the other side Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: of Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: that coin. People who can come Anne Ganguzza: Well, Lau Lapides: in Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: and they're very consistent. Their personalities are not up and down. They have Anne Ganguzza: And they, Lau Lapides: nothing in it for them personally. Anne Ganguzza: well, that's it. And they bring a very different perspective. And they also can reach possibly people that you don't have access to, right? Or have, you know, in terms of, you know, it could be reach people for marketing or even reaching people for helping and doing other things. right, and you would never have been able to find them. So I actually, law, I am like, I'm between, I actually utilize both. I utilize some people in the industry, and then I utilize people outside of the industry because for that reason, exactly for that reason, law, the one thing that I run into when I look for people outside of the industry, because, and I'm just gonna say this because I've been doing this for so long, selling into this industry. When you sell into a creative industry, right, we're all starving artists. So it always seems like, okay, I don't have a lot of money to invest. I don't have a lot of money. I'm sorry, I don't have the money. I don't have the... And so what happens is when, you know, if you are that starving artist and you're trying to outsource to somebody else who's a starving artist, right, there's gonna be that, well, I don't have a ton of money. And then again, remember, you get what you pay for. I'm a big believer in paying people what they're worth because that's what I speak about and I think we should all walk the walk, right? And talk the talk, walk the walk. You should pay people for what they're worth and they will want to do a better job for you. You have to make them excited to work for you and excited to wanna be at work. And so if you're always trying to get the cheap, right? Or you can't pay a lot of money, then you may not get the performance that you're expecting out of people. as well. Lau Lapides: Yeah, I agree, and I'm gonna take issue with this. rhetoric that floats out there in the artist's crowd, that I don't have the money. I'm gonna challenge Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, yeah, Lau Lapides: that because Anne Ganguzza: please. Lau Lapides: I would sit you down and believe me, I'm not a financial advisor. I do not give financial advice. But I know from living the life that I've lived, that if I sat you down even over seven days and really documented everything you're doing, everything you're spending money on, Anne Ganguzza: Oh, yup. Lau Lapides: what's your fixed costs, what's your variable costs, it would kind of blow you out of the water to see Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: how much money you're spending in directions that are luxury, you don't need, Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah, Lau Lapides: they're not necessities, Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: or that you're just throwing away and unaware of that could be invested. right into Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: your business. Anne Ganguzza: totally Lau Lapides: That would Anne Ganguzza: agreed. Lau Lapides: be what I call Anne Ganguzza: Totally Lau Lapides: found Anne Ganguzza: agreed. Lau Lapides: money. That's like that's like coins under the couch, right? Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: And Anne Ganguzza: totally Lau Lapides: as you're finding Anne Ganguzza: agreed. Lau Lapides: the coins under the couch, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: say, Wow, well, before I claim poverty, and before I identify with not having money, let me take accountability 100% with the money that I earn or that I'm saving Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Lau Lapides: and how I am spending it. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, that's why I say over and over again, you're right, you're so right on that. You've got to sit down and look at the numbers. It is, take a hard look at your numbers and don't just do it once, right? Revisit it, like revisit it monthly, revisit it weekly. I mean, really revisit it. I have, you know, I installed the, oh my gosh, I forget the name of it, the app on my phone, the financial app on my phone that tells me what I'm spending money monthly on. And you will, oh, Rocket, I think it's Rocket Money. So Lau Lapides: Yes, Anne Ganguzza: I invested Lau Lapides: great. Anne Ganguzza: in that, because now that's something I spend monthly on, but Rocket Money tells me what I'm spending every month. And so there could be those unknown subscriptions that I'm paying for. And I totally agree with you, Law, that there is that constant, I don't have the money, I don't have the money, I hear it all the time, trust me, I do. Because I sell services to the voiceover, I sell events, I sell coaching services, I sell demo production, I constantly hear the I don't have money. And it's... It's really a thing you have to understand that if you are going to hire outside of this industry people will be charging accordingly. Meaning, it's not like you may be surprised at the hourly rate that these other services, marketing services in particular, social media services will get for these things. And So, you know, that might be a nice eye-opener or maybe not a nice eye-opener. It is something, though, to be aware of, though, that in our industry, I think we're so used to hearing each other going, well, I just don't have the money, and, you know, we're trying to, like, skimp and say. But yet we speak about charging what you're worth all the time. And so consider that from all... all areas, right? Don't just consider like, well, you know, I'm charging what I'm worth, but you know what, when it comes to hiring a virtual assistant, well, you know, I can only pay you like $5 an hour. No, that's just not going to cut it. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: Just, you know. Lau Lapides: Yes, totally. And really, okay, I'm about to say the C word. I think this audience can handle it. Commitment. Anne Ganguzza: Oh! Lau Lapides: Are you willing to make Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: a 100% deep dive commitment, which means you do have to sacrifice. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: Sacrifice Anne Ganguzza: Mm, Lau Lapides: goes hand in Anne Ganguzza: yep. Lau Lapides: hand with commitment. So I may want to go to the movies all weekend. I may want to go to the amusement park. I may want to take long drives to New Hampshire. But guess what? I may not be in a financial position right now to do that while I'm building my business Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: or Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: while I'm leveling up my business because now I need a CRM tool. I need a Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: marketing VA I need it. Okay, so maybe I don't want to take that vacation next month. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: Maybe it isn't absolutely necessary to eat out all weekend and get Grubhub. Anne Ganguzza: There's a big Lau Lapides: Maybe Anne Ganguzza: one. Lau Lapides: I can pick Anne Ganguzza: Yep. Lau Lapides: up my food or cook my food or there's so many ways to cut Anne Ganguzza: I can Lau Lapides: your Anne Ganguzza: give up the Starbucks. Lau Lapides: cost. Anne Ganguzza: Oh, I just said Lau Lapides: Right? Anne Ganguzza: that. Oh my Lau Lapides: Hello. Anne Ganguzza: God. I know, Lau Lapides: And what about Anne Ganguzza: even my virtual assistant, she's a Starbucks Lau Lapides: I know Anne Ganguzza: lover. Lau Lapides: I was like, Anne Ganguzza: She's gonna be like, what? Don't Lau Lapides: what? Anne Ganguzza: you say that. You know, Lau Lapides: Right? Anne Ganguzza: hey, Lau Lapides: And what? Anne Ganguzza: look, it's all in where your priorities are. And that's fine. Lau Lapides: Totally Anne Ganguzza: I'm not saying Lau Lapides: totally Anne Ganguzza: you can't go to Starbucks. I mean, that Lau Lapides: no Anne Ganguzza: can be, that's like me. I have my priorities. I will Lau Lapides: right Anne Ganguzza: always pay for. this, and this, but I make substitutions, right? So that I can pay for this, I will also do this, or I will work an extra hour, or I will try to market myself in this way, Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: so that I can afford that luxury. Lau Lapides: Yeah, Anne Ganguzza: But, Lau Lapides: you have to Anne Ganguzza: you Lau Lapides: be Anne Ganguzza: know, Lau Lapides: resourceful. You have Anne Ganguzza: yeah, Lau Lapides: to be resilient Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: and you have to be creative and you have to make a commitment and be willing to sacrifice. You know, some people are doing a four, five, $600 gym membership every month. Well, could I replace that possibly with a bike or with walking or with anything at home just for the time when I'm building my business? There's so many ways. And again, we're not financial advisors here, but we could sit you down and spin your head around Anne Ganguzza: Sure, Lau Lapides: ways to be Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: creative about saving money, not spending money, and then reinvesting that right into the business. Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah, yeah. Lau Lapides: And then all of a sudden you can get that great microphone Anne Ganguzza: I schedule. Lau Lapides: or that great coaching. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. I schedule that review, actually. I schedule that review. It's on my calendar, you know, monthly. Because especially, you know, lately, it's been a little tough, the economy out there these days. And, you know, I don't know if, you know, I don't know where it's necessarily going, right? So I want to make sure that I'm spending my money as wisely as I can. And that includes, you know, my team and, you know, making, you know, necessary do, which is not something I love to do. But it's something that, again, I have to make sure that I've got the strategy there Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: to make sure that I'm investing my money wisely in what services I am paying for and what I'm doing to grow my business. Lau Lapides: And I would say too, as you grow your business, to document Anne Ganguzza: sure I understand. Lau Lapides: what you're doing. Anne Ganguzza: Oh, Siri doesn't understand. Lau Lapides: I would say to grow your business, I would document what you're doing, whether you're writing down or video, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: what you do during a day, like record it on Zoom, record it on Anne Ganguzza: Yep. Lau Lapides: Loom, record it so that the new people coming in can either train each other or they can be watching the videos of what you've been doing because you'll forget, you'll forget half the things you're doing because you're doing so much. Everyone's multitasking. So you really have to be documenting everything you're doing as your business builds. That way the learning curve for the people coming into your business is very quick. You don't want Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: someone on a month's learning curve. You want them on like a three Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah, Lau Lapides: day learning Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: curve so they can get to business, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: right? Anne Ganguzza: and you will have to train them. That is absolutely, you do have to understand and be prepared for that. You will have to train them. They are not gonna know your brand immediately. But you can make it easier for them to learn your brand as Lov was just mentioning. What a great conversation, Lov. Lau Lapides: Great stuff. We could Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: go Anne Ganguzza: good stuff, Lau Lapides: on and Anne Ganguzza: we could. Lau Lapides: on with this. I mean, I got one more tip. Don't hire people that you necessarily like only. Hire people Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah. Lau Lapides: that are good for you Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: and good for your business. Not everyone is a growth person. Some people are great people. They're great to have around, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Don't Lau Lapides: but they Anne Ganguzza: hire Lau Lapides: may Anne Ganguzza: your Lau Lapides: not Anne Ganguzza: friends Lau Lapides: grow you. Anne Ganguzza: necessarily. Lau Lapides: They may not grow your business. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, exactly, Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: exactly. Lau Lapides: Know the difference between your friends Anne Ganguzza: But Lau Lapides: and your business partners. Anne Ganguzza: I think you do have to be in a good relationship with the person that you are working with. That is Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: for sure. Yeah. But yeah, they don't have to be your best friend. So yeah, and that could be a whole other discussion for another day. But. Lau Lapides: Yes, for Anne Ganguzza: I'm Lau Lapides: sure. Anne Ganguzza: gonna give I'm gonna give a great big shout out to our sponsor IPD TL you two can connect a network like a boss find out more at IP D TL comm and Also, I want to ask you guys a question. Do you have a local nonprofit? That's close to your heart. I know that I do You can make a huge impact as a group and contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. If you wanna find out more, visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn how. All right, bosses, you have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Lau Lapides: See Anne Ganguzza: Bye. Lau Lapides: you next time, bye.

This week, Anne and Lau discuss the importance of side hustles to your VO career. A side hustle can be anything from pet sitting to retail work, or offering computer consulting services. Side hustles provide more than just an extra income - they teach you to set priorities and work towards your goals. They can also provide transferable skills, and that is why the Bosses believe in the transformative power of side hustles in career development. Side hustles equip you with the skills to be trusted leaders and provide the practical knowledge to run your own business. More importantly, they offer the chance to pursue your passions and reach your goals. So, are you ready to embrace side hustles and level up your life and career? Transcript Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne Ganguzza: Hey everyone, welcome to the V.O. Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Gangusa, and I'm here with my lovely boss co-host, Lau Lapides, hey, Lau. Lau Lapides: Hey, Anne, you look super disco sexy. 70s, maybe 80s. Anne Ganguzza: Why, thank you. Lau Lapides: You want to do the hustle? Anne Ganguzza: Do the hustle. Do, do, do. Lau Lapides: I just turned into John Travolta for Anne Ganguzza: Hey, Lau Lapides: a second. Anne Ganguzza: who said we don't have fun here in Boss Land, in Lau Lapides: We Anne Ganguzza: Boss Lau Lapides: do Anne Ganguzza: Land? Lau Lapides: we do. Anne Ganguzza: You know, hustle, hustle. I think that's the, that is like the word for my business, is hustle, hustle. Lau Lapides: Mmm. Anne Ganguzza: And you know, I think I've been kind of a hustler all my life. Lau Lapides: Me too, in a good way, Anne Ganguzza: In Lau Lapides: not Anne Ganguzza: a good Lau Lapides: a Anne Ganguzza: way, Lau Lapides: negative way, in a Anne Ganguzza: in Lau Lapides: good Anne Ganguzza: a good Lau Lapides: way. Anne Ganguzza: way. And I think it probably helped me to get where I am today, really, all those little side hustles. I think we should take a, let's take a journey. Let's take a journey back in time and talk about our side hustles. And I'll tell you what, bosses, there's no shame in a good side hustle, that's for sure. Because Lau Lapides: Mm-mm. Anne Ganguzza: I think it helps build your character and get you to where you are today to become a resourceful and entrepreneurial boss. Lau Lapides: Yeah, there's no shame in that game. Let's go down memory road and Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: I'm willing to share. I'm actually proud of working really hard to get to the day where I was able to open a studio. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: I think that there's a whole long path leading up to that the public doesn't see and doesn't know about that really is the building block to getting to your business end. So Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: take me way back, take me back to like even Anne Ganguzza: Way Lau Lapides: your teen Anne Ganguzza: back, Lau Lapides: years Anne Ganguzza: okay, my Lau Lapides: of your Anne Ganguzza: teen Lau Lapides: first Anne Ganguzza: years. Lau Lapides: jobs. Anne Ganguzza: Okay, Lau Lapides: That Anne Ganguzza: okay, Lau Lapides: counts. What Anne Ganguzza: so Lau Lapides: were your first Anne Ganguzza: all Lau Lapides: jobs? Anne Ganguzza: right, I, all right, so I am trying to remember, I grew up in New York State, upstate New York. And so, you know, there was a legal, you know, working age. Lau Lapides: Okay. Anne Ganguzza: But I started Lau Lapides: Which you Anne Ganguzza: very Lau Lapides: ignored. Anne Ganguzza: early. I started very early. I started at the very young age of 12. And, but I wasn't working for cash, I was working for writing lessons. So, Some of Lau Lapides: Oh. Anne Ganguzza: you may, that follow me on Facebook, may have noticed that I've been spending an awful lot of time on the weekends going to horse shows. Well, that is just a blast from my past. And it just, I'll tell you what, when I was young, horses were my passion. I mean, I wanted to grow up and become a professional horse rider. And I, you know, had a couple of horses growing up, and I showed growing up. And I'll tell you what, that is not a cheap hobby. And so I used to work at the barn from the young age of 12, shoveling lots of manure and taking care of the horses, grooming the horses. Oh my goodness, I spent Lau Lapides: Bye. Anne Ganguzza: probably seven days a week at the barn. And I would do that in trade for my riding lessons. And yeah, it was really, and riding of course is a whole, like I can have a 30 minute podcast on what riding taught me. I think that the lessons that I learned from my horses were just invaluable in helping me to shape who I am today and to be fearless, because I had a lot of fear. I was afraid. I mean, I was thrown off my horse multiple times, you know, and I just. was taught to get back up on that horse and face those fears. And oh, it was a wonderful, wonderful time in my life. And my mother loved it because she knew where I was. You know, I wasn't hanging out. I wasn't hanging out in the bank parking lot, you know, drinking Lau Lapides: Yeah, Anne Ganguzza: beer. Lau Lapides: right, Anne Ganguzza: So Lau Lapides: right. Anne Ganguzza: that was Lau Lapides: And Anne Ganguzza: my Lau Lapides: the horses Anne Ganguzza: very, yeah. How Lau Lapides: know you. They Anne Ganguzza: old were Lau Lapides: love Anne Ganguzza: you when you got Lau Lapides: you. Anne Ganguzza: sick? Lau Lapides: They Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: know your voice. They're so emotional and creative. Anne Ganguzza: Well, that's it. It was such Lau Lapides: Right? Anne Ganguzza: an emotional connection. I mean, outside of like, Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: it's not just a physical ride. It's very much a mental ride because animals sense every, you know, every essence of your being. They can sense when you're nervous. They can sense when you're afraid or fearful. And really just becoming one. And you know, it amazes me, and I'll just, I'll shut up after this, but it amazes me because I used to jump, that was, I wrote English and I used to jump, that you take a beast. that is, you know, 2,000 pounds, and you point it towards a fence, and he willingly goes over it. Sometimes they don't willingly go over it, but usually that's, I say, operator error. You haven't brought them Lau Lapides: Hahaha! Anne Ganguzza: into the fence properly, so they can safely jump the fence. But I'm telling you, just, the animals, they're just amazing, beautiful, kind, wonderful beings that here, I'm gonna point you at this fence, and I want you to jump over it, and Lau Lapides: Mmm. Anne Ganguzza: I'm gonna be on your back while you do that. And you know, I'm going to continually ride around these different fences and courses And you're gonna just willingly do this for me and it just it amazes me the kindness and the and the Connection you have to have with that horse to really have that be a thing Lau Lapides: So it sounds like a very profound way of teaching a moral lesson to our listeners that you learn a lot of hardcore skills when you side hustle, Anne Ganguzza: Mmm, Lau Lapides: right? How to Anne Ganguzza: absolutely, Lau Lapides: build trust, right? Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: How to go on the ride and Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: trust, Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: how to get up into fearful heights and fall and get back Anne Ganguzza: And you make, Lau Lapides: up again, Anne Ganguzza: yeah, when you make a mistake, Lau Lapides: right? Anne Ganguzza: you know, get right back Lau Lapides: Love Anne Ganguzza: up again. Lau Lapides: that. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: Love that. Anne Ganguzza: So Lau Lapides: Love Anne Ganguzza: much. And Lau Lapides: that. Anne Ganguzza: that was not necessarily for money, although I used to groom. I mean, that was a side hustle after I would work at the stable. I would also groom as a side hustle. Then I would make cash Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: for the horses that I braided and groomed. I would do that. I would go to horse shows and groom for people. And Lau Lapides: You Anne Ganguzza: oh Lau Lapides: braided. Anne Ganguzza: gosh, it paid for a lot of my... my professional riding gear, my Lau Lapides: Ah, Anne Ganguzza: show Lau Lapides: so Anne Ganguzza: entry Lau Lapides: good. Anne Ganguzza: fees, my jackets, my boots, horse tack and equipment. Ugh. Such a good time of my Lau Lapides: So Anne Ganguzza: life. So Lau Lapides: good. Anne Ganguzza: that was my very first. What about you, Law? Lau Lapides: Well, you know, besides the typical before 12, which I did like babysitting and I did mowing lawns and all of that Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: delivery Anne Ganguzza: I mode lawns Lau Lapides: of Anne Ganguzza: too, Lau Lapides: stuff, Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: those were not prolific to me, even though I was doing skills. The first one was when I was 15, 15 years old. Think about that, 15 years old. I think I was a freshman in high school. I had a shoe store across the street from my high school, a family owned shoe store, and they trusted me to be a manager. gave me Anne Ganguzza: Wow. Lau Lapides: keys to the shoe store and that changed my entire life because I suddenly realized that I had the ability I didn't think in this way but I had the abilities and skill sets to be trusted and to be a leader and so I would literally open up the store close the store man it was a shoe store Anne Ganguzza: Wow. Lau Lapides: managed the store at 15 and I and I think back on that you know 40 years ago and how those little bits and pieces really built my life built my Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: whole mindset over a lifetime. So that was the first, I think, prolific side hustle Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: for me. What's your next one? Anne Ganguzza: Well, let's see. So I was constantly, I probably did that all through high school. And then in addition to that, I was like, well, I gotta make some cash, some cold hard cash cause I like to buy clothes and or other things, just back then it was like, or records or CDs. Actually it was records, CDs weren't in college. So now I'm really dating myself. But Lau Lapides: Ha ha! Anne Ganguzza: yeah, so then it became, I worked at a department store in retail. So I worked at Sibley's. Lau Lapides: You learned Anne Ganguzza: And I Lau Lapides: so Anne Ganguzza: also, Lau Lapides: much doing that, right Anne Ganguzza: oh yeah, Lau Lapides: Anne? Anne Ganguzza: I worked Lau Lapides: So Anne Ganguzza: in retail Lau Lapides: many. Anne Ganguzza: in the kids department and I also worked for a gas station kind of mini-mart, which there I had the keys and I had to like lock up at night, I was working that nights. And yeah, I mean, those were like, you make the minimum wage and I worked, God, however many hours I could. And believe it or not, I'm gonna go one step further and I'm going to say that, In high school, they had a work study program, so I had enough credits by the time I was literally at the beginning of junior year to graduate. So I elected for my senior year to do a work study program, where I came to school for, I think, just the morning hours, and then in the afternoon, I worked. Lau Lapides: Mm, Anne Ganguzza: So Lau Lapides: great. Anne Ganguzza: I had to just put in a certain amount of hours per week, which I'm quite sure I did 15 to 20. But most of that was encompassed just me going to the stable. and working. And so that was really kind of great. I mean, the work study and I just I absolutely loved all my little side jobs that I did and you know, waitressing, you know, which was again, you know such a such a learn those life lessons that really help you to you know When you are running a business and owning a business that can really help you in a multitude of ways I mean that was the customer service aspect, you know Which really helped me in my job today What about your next one? Lau Lapides: I tell you, it's so subliminal. You Anne Ganguzza: Right? Lau Lapides: don't even realize for many years how it gets ingrained in your core and then it comes out in really important ways as a business person and as a business owner. I too was a server, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: I too worked in retail, Anne Ganguzza: I was a bus Lau Lapides: but Anne Ganguzza: girl. Lau Lapides: you're a bus girl, I was a Anne Ganguzza: And Lau Lapides: waitress, Anne Ganguzza: a waitress. Yep. Lau Lapides: right? But the next prolific job for me was at 19. I was in college. and one of my professors who was actually teaching me singing said, you know what, we're going away on vacation. Can you stay at my home and take care of all of my animals? And I was Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: always a huge animal lover like you, like my Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: fur children. I said, okay, I'm happy to. And she said, how much do you want me to pay you? I said, you're gonna pay me Anne Ganguzza: Ha Lau Lapides: to do Anne Ganguzza: ha Lau Lapides: that? Anne Ganguzza: ha! Lau Lapides: What do you mean? I said, I don't know, pay me. And she paid me, so I was, changed my world. I launched a pet sitting business at 19, Anne Ganguzza: Oh, nice. Lau Lapides: and I did it for 10 years, and it brought me through Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: all of my professional performing through my 20s and through my college Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: years and bought me a new car. and savings for what would soon be later or later in my 20s, my graduate school career. So Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah. Lau Lapides: that side hustle was major and it set me up for the next whole piece of my life and I loved it. It was like Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: if I didn't do what I did, I could have easily gone in another direction of creating like a multi-million dollar animal business or Anne Ganguzza: Sure, Lau Lapides: something like that, Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: which turned into that. And the skill sets were amazing because I already knew like you knew how to have keys in my pocket and be totally trusted Anne Ganguzza: Yep, Lau Lapides: with someone's Anne Ganguzza: yep. Lau Lapides: property. So I was like a janitor. I had huge Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: sets of keys of houses all over my area that I'd be going into and taking care of. I loved it because I'm a very pragmatic person. I love taking care of things. I like things that are purposeful and I love my animals. It was like check, check. Anne Ganguzza: Nice. Lau Lapides: And the money was terrific even at that time, which was a good you know 30 years ago now. time I was a young kid pulling in 25 or 30 dollars per animal and could take up to 10 a day. Do the Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: math! It's Anne Ganguzza: Yep. Lau Lapides: like oh my goodness I can do my theater, I can finish my bachelor's degree, I can love on my baby pets all over the place because I'm trusted and where's that gonna lead you see? Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: And that was Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: started out of a accident side hustle. Anne Ganguzza: Wow, I'm gonna Lau Lapides: Mmm. Anne Ganguzza: say, okay, college Lau Lapides: Witchers. Anne Ganguzza: then next for me Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: was, okay, so I started off doing, and this is my preliminary voiceover. So I started reading textbooks onto tape for disabled students Lau Lapides: That's Anne Ganguzza: at the college. Lau Lapides: nice. Anne Ganguzza: And okay, so I'm gonna set the scene for you. I was reading physics and calculus books onto like, tape recorders, like with the cassette tapes. Lau Lapides: I remember Anne Ganguzza: So when Lau Lapides: those! Anne Ganguzza: I had to record, I pressed play record at the same time and I would be reading the actual questions in the back of calculus problems. So I had to understand what all the symbols meant. And so if I made a mistake, I had to stop, rewind, and then record the whole thing all over again. And that paid for my single room. I had a single room in a suite, which was great. And I was also an RA, I was a dorm guard. So that also paid for my room at the college because I basically kind of paid my way through college by doing things like that. And also that was when I continued, I was a singer in high school in musical theater and choir and then continued that in college. and met up with a person where we started singing at weddings at venues. So we were like a little bit of a singing team. We would do duets at weddings. And so I made money Lau Lapides: Oh. Anne Ganguzza: that way. Lau Lapides: Why did I not know you were a real singer? How come I didn't know Anne Ganguzza: Uh, Lau Lapides: that? Anne Ganguzza: you know, it's, I'm not, I mean, I, Lau Lapides: What was your favorite song? What was one of your favorite Anne Ganguzza: oh my Lau Lapides: wedding Anne Ganguzza: gosh, Lau Lapides: songs? Anne Ganguzza: we're talking Lau Lapides: Ah! Anne Ganguzza: about the wedding songs that were back in the day. We used to sing like theme from Ice Castles, you know, we Lau Lapides: Oh! Anne Ganguzza: used to have like those kinds of things. Lau Lapides: Oh my god, Anne Ganguzza: Um, Lau Lapides: the Carpenters! Anne Ganguzza: Ave Maria, oh yeah, but all those, you know, all of those things. Um, so, but it was cool because she had a 12 string guitar and we would sing harmony. Lau Lapides: Oh my Anne Ganguzza: And Lau Lapides: gosh, Anne Ganguzza: so yeah, it was Lau Lapides: so Anne Ganguzza: one of my favorite Lau Lapides: good. Anne Ganguzza: things to do. Although I can't say that I'm a singer today, but I can carry a tune, that's for sure. Lau Lapides: That's amazing. Anne Ganguzza: So, and that's a lot of my musicality comes from my singing as well as, you know, I played piano for, you know, eight years, I took piano lessons. So again, that's another core, I think, a core skill that I think is so important that contributes to my business today and what I do today in voiceover. It's very musical for me. So, Lau Lapides: Totally. Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: And I'll share my last, I think my last side hustle in my life, which actually became part of my career. And that was when I was 28 years old. I was still pet sitting, because I was a huge multitasker, but I fell Anne Ganguzza: That doesn't Lau Lapides: into Anne Ganguzza: surprise Lau Lapides: teaching. Anne Ganguzza: me. Lau Lapides: I fell into teaching and I started teaching in a modeling agency. Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Lau Lapides: And I Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: absolutely fell head over heels for teaching while I was trying to get into grad school. And it took me about four years to get into grad school. And I was doing my pets my teaching and doing my performing. Anne Ganguzza: Yep, Lau Lapides: And Anne Ganguzza: yep. Lau Lapides: then I got into grad school. All of that stopped. I moved to California and started a whole new life. But the teaching became Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: an integral part of my whole career and my whole program. So I don't know if it's a side hustle or not, but at the time it was. And it just seemed fun. It seemed like something cool to do and something to... challenge me and my knowledge Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: base. Like, you don't really know what you know until you have to teach it to someone Anne Ganguzza: Isn't that true? Lau Lapides: else. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: You know what Anne Ganguzza: yeah, Lau Lapides: I mean? Anne Ganguzza: because you have to learn it like 20 times more. I'll tell you what, Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: my after college, my teacher kind of came out of me because I went to work in the corporate world. As people know, I was a design engineer for an orthopedic company and I was designing hip and knee prosthetics. However, I used to go for training. I used to go up to Massachusetts, used to go up to Boston. And I used to go for computer training because I did a lot of my design work on a CAD system. And I'd go for training frequently up to the Boston area because that's where the company was. And I met my 2B boss there at a computer class. And he said, hey, I need somebody to teach this, you know, CAD at my school. Would you be willing to do that at night? And that became a side hustle for me. at night and I said sure I'd love to and I started teaching at night and boy I'll tell you what I fell in love with that and I should have known because back in the day when I was a tiny girl before I was 12 and you know working in the stalls and shoveling my manure every day I was teaching my dolls you know flashcards so I feel like I always had teaching in my blood I started teaching at night and then I ultimately you know went to work full time for the school did that for 20 some odd years. And then ultimately that was my last career before I decided to, well, I went into voiceover part-time while still working in that career and then decided to go full-time into voiceover. And I just loved the teaching. I continued the teaching, started coaching in voiceover. And Lau Lapides: Me Anne Ganguzza: while Lau Lapides: too. Anne Ganguzza: I was working my way through the corporate world, I also consulted on the computer end of things so I would work for companies. setting up their computer systems or you know doing you know whatever system admin type of deals so I Constantly, I think I worked like oh my god 60 to 80 hours a week since I was you know 21 since I got out into the working world I mean the real working world after college and interestingly enough I remember setting my priorities. I was like, you know what? I hate cleaning houses. I mean, I'm a clean person, but I hate having to clean my house on the weekends because that was the time that I had to do it since I was working full-time. And I said, you know what? I'm just gonna work overtime so that I can pay someone to come and Lau Lapides: Hmm. Anne Ganguzza: clean my house. And I said that at age 21 and I've had that happen ever since. I mean, there's Lau Lapides: You've Anne Ganguzza: maybe Lau Lapides: delegated. Anne Ganguzza: a time when I stop it, but I was like, I will always make sure I make enough money. That's how, when we were talking about priority setting, right? Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: I will always have someone to clean my house because I'd rather work the overtime than clean my house. I mean, not that Lau Lapides: Yeah, Anne Ganguzza: I'm not a clean person, because I Lau Lapides: yeah, Anne Ganguzza: really am. Lau Lapides: no, that's Anne Ganguzza: I do Lau Lapides: delegating. Anne Ganguzza: all the clutter and yeah, Lau Lapides: No. Anne Ganguzza: that exactly is what Lau Lapides: Listen, Anne Ganguzza: it is. Lau Lapides: listen, just because you're capable and really good at doing something doesn't mean you should be doing it. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: Right. Anne Ganguzza: it's really so Lau Lapides: Sometimes Anne Ganguzza: true. Lau Lapides: you have to take that time. That's what we were talking in our in our last podcast about building the team. It's like, well, You have to be the head of the ship, the captain Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: of the ship, which means Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: you have to steer the ship. You can't be doing all the jobs on the ship, even though you may know how to do Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: them, you shouldn't be doing them because you need to steer the ship. So it's the same in this case. It's Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: like you are already smart enough and mature enough to understand that, oh, I can do a great job cleaning my own house and I don't mind doing it, but I wanna spend that time really building my career and Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: really Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: putting that into more Anne Ganguzza: And Lau Lapides: important things. Anne Ganguzza: that's so you're so right, because that's actually what I was doing. I was building my career and Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: moving up in every aspect of my career. Whatever I was doing, I made it a point to grow and to move up, to get promoted and, you know, and do what I needed to do. And a lot of that included, you know, spending time educating myself. And Once I got into my last job, which was at the school teaching, but actually I was on staff as a tech person, but I also taught all the IT electives, I taught at night and ultimately did phone installs, which is where I ended up being the voice of the phone system. And that got me into voiceover. Then I did that part-time, right, while I was working full-time at the job. And then ultimately when I decided to go full-time into VoiceOver, I then had another side hustle because then I wasn't, you know, full-time, I didn't have the clients built up yet. So I was like, whoa, gosh, there's no money coming in. So I need a side hustle. And so again, the side hustle for me for that was I literally worked. for a chiropractor. I went to a chiropractor and he needed help and I was like, you know what, I need to bring in some cash to help pay the bills. And he needed an office manager and so I became an office manager for just about, gosh, I'm gonna say it was a while, maybe it was the first five years of my business. I worked 20 hours a week. I got free adjustments, which was great. And that's what I did. And I just remember my mother. God bless her. She was always like, so Anne, when are you going? Because I'd had all these career jobs and promotions and titles. And she's like, so Anne, when are you going to get a real job? Lau Lapides: Nyeh Anne Ganguzza: And Lau Lapides: ha Anne Ganguzza: I'm like, Lau Lapides: ha! Anne Ganguzza: mom, I am building a business. I'm an entrepreneur. And Lau Lapides: Good. Anne Ganguzza: so yeah, but I had side hustles. And I always encourage students that are just coming into the industry to do the side hustle. Take the experience from life, from your work. and utilize that to continue the revenue stream while you build your business. So Lau Lapides: Yeah, Anne Ganguzza: important. Lau Lapides: and make sure it's flexible. It has Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: to be flexible in nature so that you're not putting your career and your education on hold. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: You don't ever want to side hustle to take up so much time and energy Anne Ganguzza: Exactly. Lau Lapides: that you're not building the more important building blocks you want it to support, but not to take up all of your. your time and your energy Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: and focus Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: and make sure it's something you kind of like. You don't have Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: to be in Anne Ganguzza: absolutely, Lau Lapides: love with it, but Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: make sure it's not something that's causing anger, disdain, grief, because then you're gonna bring that into your career and Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: into your education and you're not gonna be successful there and sabotage the thing that you wanna build. So you have Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: to kind of think the Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: whole thing through and don't be afraid to switch it out. If Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: it doesn't work, switch it out, you Anne Ganguzza: Well, Lau Lapides: know? Anne Ganguzza: that's the cool thing when you're in business for yourself, right? You can, you Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: know, it's like, well, try it. If it doesn't work, you can try something else. And I can't tell you how much my own experience has helped me to become, you know, I'm also a business, I have business mentorship programs that I work with my students that has helped me to help my students. I mean, and the fact that I'm like, hey, I was an office assistant, you know, and my mother's like, Ann, you know. Lau Lapides: Hahaha Anne Ganguzza: I'm like, there's nothing wrong with being an office assistant, right, or an office manager. In reality, it's, you know, again, it's people serving, and I, you know, had developed a lot of skills doing that, and I was very organized and wonderful. And at the time, it was just enough hours so I could bring in money to contribute to the household expenses, and yet gave me time to be able to audition, you know, and it was close to where I live, so I could run home and audition during the day if I needed to during a break. It was wonderful. I mean, I cannot, I cannot talk enough about the benefits of the side hustle. Lau Lapides: and there's Anne Ganguzza: And, Lau Lapides: probably hundreds of them. Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: that you could really get your hands on and learn from and enjoy, Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely. Lau Lapides: make money at, learn skills. And don't look at it as you're wasting your time or you don't want to do it Anne Ganguzza: Yeah! Lau Lapides: or you resent doing it. Look at it as, no, this is part of my education. This is Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: part of my investment into Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Lau Lapides: my education and career. I have to do this so that not only I build money and capital, but I learn things. I learn how to take care of someone else, something Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: else, build trust. you know, learn skills, selling skills, dealing with money, all of that. Anne Ganguzza: It's so funny, I think education has always been in my blood. I mean, again, I say it how many times a day, La when people say, what is your purpose in life? It's to educate. I truly, truly believe that from being a small girl teaching flashcards to my stuffed animals, to the V.O. Boss podcast was a whole resource for education. The V.O. Peeps was, when I got out of teaching full time, I was like, oh God, I miss teaching. So let me have a group. you know, that I can provide educational resources to. So I say follow that passion in all aspects of your hustle and side hustle, really. And you can't go wrong. And I think education is such an important part of just continual growth and building and growing your business Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: as a boss. Lau Lapides: And be proud of it. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: If you're not willing to share it or talk about it, if you're hiding it, if Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: you're embarrassed by it, it's probably something you shouldn't be doing. So find things that you can add to your resume, that you can chat about at an interview, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: or that you can be proud of and make some good connections through. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, absolutely. And that's like the biggest thing that I'm always promoting too, when people are just getting into the industry. What are your skills? What is your life skills? What are your job skills? What have you done? The more things you have done, the more you can bring to this side of the business. Lau Lapides: That's Anne Ganguzza: I mean, Lau Lapides: right. Anne Ganguzza: it is, I mean, think about it. What we do is we have a product, we sell it, right? We sell it to companies. It's not just, I mean, it's creative. Yes, it's creative, right? And it's artistic, of course. But think about what you really, you have a product, your voice, that you are selling to companies. So all of your life, you've probably worked in some form for a company or for a business that you've gotten paid for. So you can bring that experience to the table to enhance your business, to either side hustle it, have what I call the divisions of your business or the tendrils of your business. And it's funny because even now that I'm in full-time VO, for many, many years now, I now still have many divisions of my business, which I consider to be my side hustles. And you yourself, Law, have multiple divisions of your business as well. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. And they're growing. It's not Anne Ganguzza: Yep. Lau Lapides: static. Like, you're never done. You're never saying, okay, this is my business, and that's where I cap it. Like, you should always be saying, what's my projection for the next year Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: or five years? Where Anne Ganguzza: yeah, Lau Lapides: do I want to go with this? What Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: do I have to do in order to figure out how to do it? And maybe that's a professional side hustle, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: you know, that you have to do or you have to hire someone to do in order to figure out how to grow. Anne Ganguzza: Oh, I'm constantly thinking of I love that I'm constantly thinking about that again, as we move through, you know, changing and evolving markets right in voiceover. Is there an opportunity for you to continue to take these skills into even something else. Let's say if you wanted to do something else in addition or parallel with voiceover. What skills do you have now that you can evolve into what's going to happen in the future. for this industry. It's always good to try to look and really predict what's happening in the future. And that might be another podcast episode for us, Law. What's Lau Lapides: of Anne Ganguzza: going Lau Lapides: it. Anne Ganguzza: to happen to voiceover in 10 years? There's a lot of people asking that question. And there's a lot of people that have ideas and theories. And I've got my own theories. But it doesn't stop me from thinking about, if this were to happen, what's your plan B? What's your side hustle? How are you going to evolve or maybe shift into something else? Or? maybe not something else, maybe something in addition to. And I think it's always something that it's wise and strategic for you bosses to be thinking about. I mean, if you are not thinking about it, then you might wanna rethink being in business for yourself, Lau Lapides: Yeah, always Anne Ganguzza: right? Lau Lapides: have your backups ready to go. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: Have the safety nets there for you. Anne Ganguzza: Yep, Lau Lapides: Just Anne Ganguzza: yep. Lau Lapides: know your plan A, B, and C is always gonna work for you. I think we are gonna go back to that hustle, right? Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: We're gonna go back and do the Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: hustle. Anne Ganguzza: we're all so well. Now I have to go see if we can lease the music. Right. Lau Lapides: Ha ha ha! Anne Ganguzza: Anyways, so yeah, bosses do that hustle. It has been a wonderful conversation. Boss, I love love, love talking to you. Law, I called you boss law. Yeah, I love I love our conversations Lau Lapides: And Anne Ganguzza: and Lau Lapides: I love you right back Anne Ganguzza: yes. Lau Lapides: to pieces. Anne Ganguzza: And and it just thank you so much for continuing to be by my side here. Lau Lapides: It's just Anne Ganguzza: Uh, yeah, for- Lau Lapides: a joy and we're coming up on our year's anniversary. Anne Ganguzza: Oh my God, oh my God, we're gonna have to celebrate with a big party. Lau Lapides: Yeah, yeah, Anne Ganguzza: Big party, big party guys. Lau Lapides: party! Anne Ganguzza: So, bosses out there, simple mission, big impact. 100 voices, one hour, $10,000. Four times a year. Gosh, do you even know what I'm talking about? Well, if you wanna find out more, visit 100voiceswhocare.org to join us and join in on the giving. Big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Lau Lapides: next Anne Ganguzza: Bye. Lau Lapides: week. Bye!

What would it look like if you could harness the energy of a conference and convert it into effectiveness? What would it feel like to be your own boss in the voiceover industry? Our esteemed guest, Tom Dheere, joins us as we unravel the answers to these thought-provoking questions. We share valuable insights on setting the right objectives, maximizing conference experiences, and the commitment required to become a full-time voice actor. Plus, we examine the liberating perspective of entrepreneurial freedom offered by the voiceover industry. 0:00:01 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the real boss series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza and I am so happy to bring to this series Mr Tom Dheere. Thank you so much, tom, for joining me on this. 0:00:15 - Tom Yay, thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited about this. This is going to be great. 0:00:19 - Anne Oh, tom, first of all, it was so awesome to see you at the One Voice conference. 0:00:25 - Tom Yes, likewise. 0:00:27 - Anne I know we just had. You were just a guest on my podcast and, lo and behold, like two times I see you within the span of a month or two, which is really incredible, right? Sometimes we have to go to conferences to just meet in person so whew, I was exhausting that conference, but super motivating, and I know a lot of people who went to that conference are all revved up and ready to go, motivated, inspired. We took amazing classes and so I think it's a good time to talk about. You know, what do we do with all that amazing energy that we just absorbed in that conference? Because I'm revved up, I'm motivated, ready to go. What can we do to, I guess, keep ourselves or keep the momentum going, tom? 0:01:16 - Tom That is a fantastic question and I know you've been presented at dozens and dozens of conferences over the past 10 years, and so have I, and we go and we meet wonderful people and we present and we also attend workshops and panels and we learn a lot and we get to commiserate with our peers, voice actors and coaches and other producers and stuff like that. And then there's this glow. 0:01:42 - Anne There is a glow. It's wonderful glow. There is a glow. 0:01:46 - Tom And then you go home and then for the vast majority of people that go to these conferences, it's like whew. 0:01:53 - Anne And then life sets in right. I have laundry to do. Yeah, family, yeah, right Bills and auditions and stuff like that. 0:02:02 - Tom So it's great. Conferences are great for, obviously for education. They're great for networking, they're great for renewal of purpose, refocus, re-energizing. The trick is how to take all that positive energy and inspiration and revved up-ed-ness and coming, taking it home with you and turning it into effectiveness. Because the positive attitude, while great it can only get you so far, it's not going to get you home. You're going to run out of that momentum and now there's work to be done. 0:02:37 - Anne Interesting, tom. Before we went to the conference, I think somebody had actually created a note sheet of like here are the I guess the talks that I want to go to, here are my goals, or here's what I got out of it, and I thought it was a really great way for people who like that type of thing and they take a lot of notes to write down your objectives. What are you hoping to get from that? And then what do you hope to do once you get, maybe once you get home, to put those lessons learned in place? And so I think that maybe everything should start even before we go to the conference in terms of writing things down and what is it that you hope to get out of this conference. And I'm a big planner, so I am a big proponent of yeah, you guys should plan out what sessions you want to go to, look at the schedule multiple times and just see how you can get the most out of the money that you've spent on that ticket of yours. 0:03:33 - Tom Yeah, absolutely, and different people at different points in their voiceover journey go to different conferences for different reasons, if it's. I've never been one to been one to one before, and I just want to. I haven't even produced a demo yet. I just want to see what this universe is like. 0:03:47 - Anne Great. 0:03:48 - Tom If it's, this is my 15th conference. I've had all these demos done, I've gotten all this work. What am I going to get out of it this time? Or some people go because they specifically want to meet you, or they want to meet another coach or demo producer to see, I want to get in the same room with this person and see if we click because I may want to work with you as a coach or a demo producer. Um, you know, and some go purely as presenters and you know, and then they, you know, do their stuff and then they get out of there and yeah, which is which is which is cool too. 0:04:19 - Anne I think there's such a, there's such a momentum to be gained by just joining forces with like-minded people and, just you know, renewing um relationships, and that just keeps you going, because it's so isolating sometimes just what we do and yeah and I will tell you, though, that the other day I was I don't even know what it was that made me think of it, but I I think I was getting ready to, you know, start. I had a full day of students, and I said, I don't know what made me think about, oh god, what if I had to go to work for somebody? um, you know, back in my days of corporate and I'm like I I could never do that again. So boss is out there. This is just a little segue. If you, if, if you know that this is what you want to do and you end up pursuing it full time, I don't say rush into it with your, you know, with your eyes closed. But, um and Tom, we can talk lots of strategies about that, but once you make that decision to go full time, I don't do you know anybody who's actually gone back because they've been unhappy being their own boss um, I know lots of people who have gone back to a regular job because they just couldn't book enough right they needed the money. 0:05:24 - Tom Yeah, exactly, it was purely financially, like I've been trying this and I just, I just can't get enough work to sustain myself and they've come gone back. Um, I can't think of anyone specifically, but I'm sure there are people out there, because there are people who just like to be told what to do, because then they don't have to think about it and there's a level of security in that and I totally that's sympathize with that. 0:05:45 - Anne I'm not one of those people, I can't. I don't, I don't think I could, I could not go back to taking now, I think, now I can take. I can take instructions from my client. Sure, I can be directed um, and then I want to get paid and be done with it. I think that's really it's. It's an interesting. It's an interesting, it's a different dynamic, because that's a, that's a, that's a business to business thing where you and the clients are on equal footing there's no high. There's no hierarchy. 0:06:10 - Tom It's it's you and the client trying to make this finished, great finished product, which is, you know, the audio files that you're gonna send to them or their, their source connecting you through. But with what? When it's a, I am in charge of you and. I'm telling you what to do, and this is when you can go to the bathroom and stuff like that it's like ah, I don't know if I could. 0:06:29 - Anne I don't know, I don't think I could go back to that it makes me think of okay, it's similar to I know I just went off on that on that weird tangent, but that happens sometime, bosses, sorry, um, but it was just a weird like. It just came to me. I was like I could not work for somebody now, so I will do everything in my power to make my business so that I do not have to do that. I think that also was leading into that. But I think isn't that similar to, let's say, I, I pay my money, I get my ticket, I go to a conference, I take these classes, I'm inspired for a new genre, I'm inspired to work with a new coach, and then we come back and, oops, we're by ourselves, right. So now, yeah, it's very similar to what now, you know, we're gonna be talking about is we've got to take the reins and we've got to do the work and it's, it's now up to us, and we're not necessarily having that coach or that director saying, okay, do this, do this, do this. Now we've got all of this energy and this motivation. How do we cement that and you know, and and start to just really move forward on that? 0:07:27 - Tom right. The trick is if you want to be the vo boss you need to learn how to be your own boss. Yeah, yeah, you know it's empowering to like be the boss. Yeah, I'm a tough boss. I'll tell you that my boss is a jerk my boss, I would say my boss is a bastard oh, I just said that oh. I had another word in mind, but I didn't use it. 0:07:49 - Anne I'm not sure if we'll bleep that out, but yeah woo, I'll tell you what. I've never worked for a harder boss, but isn't that true? 0:07:57 - Tom yeah, yeah, I'm hard on ourselves. I'm pretty real, I'm I'm often pretty relentless and I have to be because I have this bad habit. 0:08:05 - Anne It's called eating and and having a roof over my head, yes, and not living in a cardboard box, yes, yeah, you know. 0:08:14 - Tom So yeah, the motivation is like there's no net yeah, you know what I mean. If I don't audition for this, there's a 100 chance that I'm not gonna book it well, yeah, and I think that's what propels me for sure you know what I mean to get work done, I mean right the fact that I need right. 0:08:30 - Anne I need to be able to pay the mortgage right, and that's the, and that's a. 0:08:33 - Tom That's a great point, anne, is that different people need to find different motivations. To stay motivated when you are alone in your booth talking to yourself? You know, so that's a big part of you know I talk about effectiveness. There's a difference between talent and effectiveness. There's a lot of talented aspiring voice actors out there with interesting voices but like I have an interesting pen, it doesn't make me an author, you know. 0:09:02 - Anne I own a wrench. It doesn't make me a plumber, so having talent, voice doesn't make me effective. Yeah absolutely. 0:09:11 - Tom You know, because no one's going to get discovered, you're not going to get your big break. It doesn't really work that way. 0:09:16 - Anne It's what you do with that pen that matters. It's what you do with that voice that matters. 0:09:20 - Tom Exactly and consistently. Yes, absolutely so when you get home from that conference and you've got all that positive attitude. That's great If you can bottle it and put it on a shelf for later. 0:09:30 - Anne That's great. 0:09:31 - Tom But when you get home, it's about what can I do to be effective today, tomorrow, next week, month, quarter year, two years, five years? And I'm not necessarily talking about writing a business plan, which is something I do do as the, as the video strategist, but it's about how do I think about myself to stay motivated. How do I think about and understand the voiceover industry? So there's a reality, because that's the other thing and, as you know, people coming into the industry have no idea what the industry is. They just have this odd preconceived notion of what it is. Oh yeah, I talk interesting. I got to just get an agent and then they'll just throw Saxa cash at me. 0:10:10 - Anne Exactly and I think, yeah, you don't know what you don't know right. 0:10:13 - Tom You don't know what you don't know. 0:10:15 - Anne And especially not only that is it a new industry for a lot of people, but it's also the fact that there's a lot of people who are very unhappy in their current job situation and get out of that work for somebody else, but then working for yourself is a whole different animal and that really is, I think, where the double it's. The double whammy comes in for those people new to the industry, because not only are they trying to acquire the skills to be a good talent, but now they also have to have good business skills as well, and they're not used to working for themselves or having to go out and market themselves and get work and all those hats that they've got to put on. 0:10:58 - Tom Yeah, I had a maybe 15 years ago here in New York City. I had a 10 minute meet up with an agent I don't remember which one but he said tell me about yourself. And I talked about all the things I do. He's like, wow, you got a lot of hats. And I'm like, yeah he's like but you only have one head and I'm like, yeah, so you kind of to be an effective voice actor, you need to kind of be the Dr Seuss Bartholomew in 1001 hats and have all those hats stacked up on. Some of them, some of them, you can take on and put on and take off, but a bunch of them you have to have stacked on your head at the same time, because there is no job description for being a voice actor. I mean, there is, but nobody knows what it is, until you get here and it's like unlocking these doors and you know, moving these hedges aside and going oh, I need to do, I have to do that. You know it's like. It's almost like a maze, which is the logo of the VO strategist. Now that I think about it helping you navigate the voice over the industry, absolutely. So, navigating the maze of what it means to be an effective voice actor, and staying motivated at the same time. Because, yes, invoicing. 0:12:08 - Anne Staying, staying motivated when you're doing something like accounting. 0:12:12 - Tom Like for me. 0:12:12 - Anne I mean, well, I'm not. I mean, there are some people who love accounting, right, so there's accounting for me. How do there you go See for me? I'm like, oh God, actually I will tell you, tom. So for me, staying motivated while I have an S corp, right, and an S corp is creating all of this paperwork for me and for me, I can't, god it's, and it's just like I need to, either just, you know, be educated about, you know, the entire S corp thing, or I outsource, right. So I think if I had to do all that paperwork and try to understand it all and to stay motivated, it would be very, very difficult for that to happen, and it may discourage me from wanting to have a voiceover business because of this paperwork that I continually have to supply to the government, to you know, support this business, but I, you know, for me one of my solutions is to outsource that right. And make sure that I have somebody that I trust and can go to if I have any questions, that can handle that aspect for me. So if I'll, I know, constantly get mail, mail, snail mail saying you need to provide this information, or you owe us this amount of money, or you need to prepay this or you know whatever that is, and so I literally will just be like, oh my gosh, this is a lot of paperwork. So I will literally scan that in and send that to my accountant, which, by the way, I will say to the to to my dying day, I will say my accountant was my very best investment for this business. I just I can't. I can't do the numbers. 0:13:45 - Tom Right, well, and that's that's a very important point, and is that if you're getting into the voiceover industry, obviously you need to understand what does that entail on you know soft skills, hard skills, hardware, software, marketing, money and all that stuff, and you need to know, you need to have an understanding of what your S corp is, or what this is, where that is, and then you can decide okay, this is a skill I need to just understand, but I'll outsource it and this is a skill like, for example, using your DAW. 0:14:14 - Anne You have to know how to use your DAW. 0:14:17 - Tom You need to know how to audition and you need to know how to record and clean up and save and, you know, deliver audio file. Some stuff is non-negotiable. You know what I mean. 0:14:27 - Anne But managing your S corp, you know right, that's another thing. 0:14:31 - Tom Or if you're an audio book narrator or a long form e-learning narrator, do you want to hire an audio, an audio engineer, to clean up your clean up your audio or do you want to do that, Do it yourself? Or do you say do it yourself first to understand how it works and why it works and then outsource it? And I'm sure some of your bosses are thinking I don't have that money. To outsource yes, I don't have the money to outsource. 0:14:54 - Anne You need to invest your money to make the money. That's what I always start by saying invest the money to make the money, but and maybe not try to put yourself wholeheartedly into the business until you do have money that you can invest, because that would be, from any perspective, any business. You have to have some investment money. 0:15:15 - Tom I mean it's not just voiceover, just some. 0:15:17 - Anne for some reason it became this like oh, we just talking to a microphone, how easy is that. I don't need to have any money or be prepared, or maybe I just got to buy a mic. And that, I think, is where, where in the problem lies, where then you start to have, you know, predators in the industry that will sell that dream and people who will get taken for that dream and without the realization that, yeah, they have to put things in place and make investments to do that. So let's, let's kind of go back to we've gone to a conference and we've gotten motivated, and even it doesn't have to be a physical conference, it could be a virtual, online, you know, workshop or whatnot. I just went to a workshop called Unstoppable you. It was a Tony Robbins thing, which was all about the motivation, all about the motivation. But yeah, now that you've, now that you're motivated, you've got to do the work and you've got to maybe take a look at the hard like really take a look at the the hard questions and and then make concrete steps to move forward. So it's like I can ask the hard questions. I can maybe, I can maybe get through the answers and they might make me cry, some of them Right, they right and so I can do that, but now I have to actually do the hard part, which is moving forward. So what, what would be the first thing you would recommend? Let's say, somebody that comes back from a conference or, you know, a workshop or whatever, and maybe a meeting with a coach and they're they're inspired, they're motivated. What's the first thing that you would have them do? 0:16:46 - Tom The first thing that I would have them do is write down in severe detail what they're perfect. 0:16:51 - Anne Severe detail, not just detail. Severe detail, severe detail. 0:16:55 - Tom What their perfect voiceover day looks like. 0:16:58 - Anne Oh, okay, okay. Follow me with just work with me for a second. 0:17:02 - Tom What time of day are you waking up? What time zone are you in when you wake up? Are you waking up in a house, a cabin, a condo, a space station? a bunker, a submarine Like? Where are you waking up when it's time to start doing voiceover? Does the limo pick you up? Are you walking downstairs into the basement? Are you getting on a bicycle to go downtown? Are you going into your backyard to your custom built booth? Are you going into the attic? Are you taking a bus or a train? And then, when you get there, what are? What kind of? What kind of bookings are you doing? What genres or subgenres of voiceover? One or more? How much are you getting paid? Obviously, we all want to get paid as much as possible, but what is that actual number that you need to cover all of your voiceover expenses, all of your personal expenses? Manage your debt, save for retirement, save for that college education for your kids, save for that car and have enough to have a little fun. 0:18:01 - Anne And this is before. You're a working talent, right, this is still a, really, if you're just new to the industry and you want to get into it and you're let's say, you're in the process with a coach and you're making demos. You want to project what genres? First of all, if you're working with a coach, you should probably have a genre in mind already yes, right, and with a genre specific coach. So you kind of know where you want to go. But putting that down, right, even if you're not actually doing the work as you were mentioning okay, this is the work, I'm going to be doing these auditions, even if you don't have audition opportunities yet and you're still just working. Put down that on the list because you want to make sure that you have the space for it and the time for it. Right, right, right. And then the goal, steps, the steps. 0:18:42 - Tom Right, exactly. And once you have that perfect day realized, written down in severe detail, you walk that backwards to the day to the moment that you're writing that list. What are you missing between right now and that perfect voiceover day? What money, how much money do you need? What training do you need? What tools do you need? What marketing acumen do you need? All of the things big and small, knowledge, hardware, software, tangible, intangible mindset to get you where you are and figure out what are you missing and what you need to do to fill those gaps. So when you come home from a conference, all motivated, try to figure out what the practical application of all the wonderful information that you just collected is. We go to all these workshops and listen to all these panels and take all these notes and some of the knowledge is immediately actionable and others are, for you know, I took this genre workshop. I'm gonna keep these notes and maybe I'll be ready for it in a year or two. And so on and so forth. Organize, organize everything, because you need to figure out how actionable and practical everything that you need is to do to get you to that perfect voiceover day and use the glow and energy and momentum of the conference that you just got home from to kind of build that foundation, build that scaffolding, create that structure. So, when you get back into the day to day grind of trying to build or develop or nurture your voiceover business, you have effective systems of thought and effective systems of execution. 0:20:23 - Anne And let me interject also what I think is important is, of course, yes, you took that workshop on animation or whatever promo, imaging, whatever it is, you know, medical narration, I say because I just did that, love it or corporate. I think that you always have to keep your eye on the market. I gosh, I feel like sometimes we become so blinded by our own like performance because we're like, oh, I want to get really good at animation or I want to get really good at, you know, whatever commercial or corporate. But I think we always have to keep our eye on the marketplace because if there's not a demand or if the demand is not as big and I'm always telling this to my students about corporate, it's a huge market, is a huge opportunity there Versus animation. Not that there isn't a huge opportunity there, but there's less of an opportunity there than there is in corporate. There's more of an opportunity in e-learning than there is in even I would say, promo, promo, of course. Right, documentary. Everybody that comes to me for narration says I want to do documentaries and I'm like well, how many documentaries do you think there are at any given time? Do you know? 0:21:32 - Tom what I mean yeah. 0:21:33 - Anne Compared to the 30.4 million registered companies that have a product or service to sell that need a corporate narrator. 0:21:40 - Tom And need human resources videos and need orientation videos and need compliance videos Right. 0:21:45 - Anne And I think that that is something that we really need to take into consideration at all points in our business, because that will affect right when you're talking about here's where I am. Here are the here's my perfect day, here's where I want to be, I want to be animating, I want to be doing animations on television or whatever that is, or I want to have a national commercial spot. That's all well and good. However, I think that you also have to take in account what is the market for that? Is there okay? Are you going to be able? And I used to think erroneously back in the beginning, before I realized what the market was oh, I just need a commercial a day, right? Or you know, oh, wouldn't that be nice. Oh yeah, tom, we're talking about real talk, right? Real bosses. Well, okay, I don't know anybody that gets a commercial a day, except for people who are maybe on rosters for serious exam or they're doing, and that's usually for lower pay. But if you're thinking like, oh, if I got a national spot, even one a week, right, I mean, unless you're in it, voice for a campaign. I mean, I love how you laugh, that's the perfect way. 0:22:46 - Tom Well, I laugh because I thought I had to sound like James Earl Jones. 0:22:47 - Anne Right, I mean yeah, and so like that is. You know you have to understand what's realistic for the, for the industry too, when you're jotting these down. So any education that you can get on that right. Listen to podcasts like Vio Boss. I mean, we've been doing this for six years, right, talking about markets and business. And, tom, you've been doing gosh. How many years have you been doing business consulting? 0:23:10 - Tom and strategizing Over 10 years. 0:23:12 - Anne Yeah, over 10 years and specifically in our industry, and so, like guys, I mean, look, I'm not saying of course you should come to us, but I mean we've been doing this for a long time, we've watched the market evolve and so that's why I want to point it out and say that this is so important for us to have in consideration in our, in our step by step process of here's where we are, here's where we want to be. Now, if I want to be, you know, a commercial, you know Vio artist, well, maybe I want to think about another genre as well, to add in, to supplement those days when I don't get the national campaign every day. And I'm not trying to crush your dreams, guys, that's just not, that's just not it. But you know we're. This is a dose of reality, right, tom? This is our whole series is based on let's talk real yeah. 0:23:57 - Tom The reality is is that you may be. You may be good at something you don't like, and you may not be good at something you do like. A lot of people are drawn to the industry because they love cartoons and video games, and a lot of them may not be good at it, but they may find out that they are good at corporate or e-learning, which is a far more to your point, stable form of voiceover income, because, when it comes to effectiveness, the bottom line of effectiveness as a voice actor is you're able to make money. You're able to develop a revenue stream. 0:24:28 - Anne Develop any revenue stream that you need to make. Yeah, develop any revenue stream. 0:24:32 - Tom you can in any genre, whether you like it or not, and I always say all genres of voiceover is storytelling. I get my storytelling jollies out of any voiceover genre. 0:24:44 - Anne I don't care Teaching statistics right or you're narrating corporate responsibility or HR policies. You are absolutely a character and you are acting, and so that is a requirement, that is, I mean, baseline requirement, especially now when we talked about this in our last podcast. It is such a requirement for us to be the actors that we are called to be, I mean, and that includes all genres. So, yes, and that's the reality, that's the real talk. 0:25:14 - Tom Yes. 0:25:15 - Anne The real talk is you've got to invest in yourself, in developing those skills and getting good coaching, and not just taking acting classes. I know everybody would say take an acting class, and I think that's wonderful too, but you've also got to take acting classes as they pertain to voiceover as well. 0:25:32 - Tom Yes, there's a crossover. I mean, I always say improv classes are extremely important because it gives you the ability to make strong decisions quickly while you're narrating your copy. But to an end, compliment stuff like that, and there's like there are people who do improv for voiceover and acting specifically for voiceover. It's a very specific skill. 0:25:54 - Anne There's very specific muscles that you need to flex, Absolutely, absolutely To be to do voiceover as opposed to on camera or as opposed to theater. I'm all about teaching the acting for narration and, by the way, tom, I miss you. I don't see you. Did you turn your camera off by any chance? 0:26:09 - Tom No, I'm still here. 0:26:11 - Anne Oh, I don't see you how interesting. That's that's. Do you see yourself? 0:26:16 - Tom I do. 0:26:17 - Anne Oh, okay. Well, I'm just going to assume. 0:26:19 - Tom Okay. 0:26:20 - Anne I'm going to assume that it just kind of blipped off. But you know, hey guys, technology Riverside, hopefully we'll have your, we'll have your video anyways. 0:26:30 - Tom Okay. 0:26:30 - Anne Absolutely, so, okay, so, so what a great conversation. So now you're back. Okay, so that's interesting. So now we've taken our, we've come back from the conference, we're motivated, we're, we've written down our, our perfect voiceover day, right and so, and then we've worked backwards to the steps. And so what would be next after that, tom, how do do we need to? We probably need to take time to evaluate whether we've accomplished those steps right, absolutely. Once we've written them down and we've and we've developed our to-do list. Now we've got to go back, maybe in a week or so or in a you know at the end of the day and say did I accomplish my tasks? 0:27:07 - Tom Yes, self-evaluation and self-reflection is one of the most important skill sets to be an effective voice actor. Because you don't have. Unless you're part of my mentorship program or you're mentoring with Ann, you are working in a vacuum. You need to develop the ability to metacognate, which is the ability to stand outside of thank you, the ability to stand outside of yourself. Look at yourself objectively and say did I do what I assigned to my assigned for myself? Did I do it? Well, if I didn't do it, why didn't I do it? Was there a logistical problem? Was a financial problem? Was there a motivational problem? You know and find out why, why you do what you do, how you tick, and there's a time to be kind to yourself and there's a kind, there's a time to be tough on yourself. You know. 0:27:56 - Anne And so taking I think I've always tough on myself, but you're right, yeah. 0:27:59 - Tom You have to be able to. You have to be able to do both, because we're all human. We all have different energy levels and emotional states that fluctuate constantly throughout the day, week, month, year, decade, and we need to be accommodating for that. Oh, mercury's in retrograde today, so I'm not going to get my invoicing done, or what were you? 0:28:18 - Anne know oh, technology sucks, technology sucks. You know what I mean? 0:28:21 - Tom Oh, great retrograde, yeah, you know but if you find yourself making excuses for yourself about why you're not doing things, then you are not being effective. 0:28:28 - Anne Because I have an, I have an action for it. That's a whole another podcast right there. 0:28:32 - Tom Yeah, I have my action plan right here and I don't check off every single box. I get about 80% of my action plan stuff done every month, dating back to 2006. And sometimes it's-. 0:28:42 - Anne Do you have records from back then? Do you do you have a-. 0:28:45 - Tom I have a binder right here with every single one of these. So January 2006-. I love it Was my first printed one and I've done 12 a year since 2006 and it's in this binder right over here. 0:28:54 - Anne It does not surprise me that you love numbers too. I love numbers, right, yeah, see, and so that I feel goes along with. Now I'm not so much, although I will. I will share my book is out there, but I have my to-do list that I love to cross things off on and I have my planner where I like to write my goals down. I'm not always as good as I propose to be, but, yeah, I think that's super important. But, wow, what a great conversation. I want to talk to you more, in more detail, about a lot of these steps because I think they're super important in our series. So, tom, thank you so so much for joining me for our first, our first in a series of real bosses. 0:29:35 - Tom Yeah. 0:29:36 - Anne So, guys, if you, I have a simple mission for you, but one that has big impact 100 voices, one hour, $10,000. Four times a year. Do you want to know what I'm talking about? Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to find out more and to join us. And big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. We love IPDTL. We love connecting with bosses like Tom and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and be real bosses. We'll see you next week. Bye, bye. Transcribed by https://podium.page

In wrestling with life's challenges, recovery and self-care are paramount. Anne and Lau stress the importance of having that one person who understands, who can act as a sounding board without getting overly entangled in the emotion of the situation. The Bosses discuss the significance of discipline in the recovery process and the role of self-care, underlining the need to step back and reassess situations from a different perspective. Tune in to join us in this deep and insightful discussion as we share our personal experiences and offer valuable advice on how to effectively manage challenging times with a robust support system. Transcript 0:00:01 - Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 0:00:20 - Anne Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast and the business superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Gangusa, and today I am so excited to bring back to the show Miss Lau Lapides. Hey, Lau Nice, to see you Excited to. I'm actually so happy to see you, la, because I have had a crappy week, I've had a bad week. Poor Anne, tell me about it, baby, I've got some cookies. I have to talk about what we can do to help me recover. Oh so, wait a second, are you in recovery? I could be in recovery right now. I mean, meeting with you, la, it helps me. It helps me in my recovery from a bad week. I know, I think it's something to talk about because I mean, look, I'd love to have an amazing week like every day and amazing days every day, but gosh knows that's not always the case. It's not, I swear. Sometimes it happens like one right after the other and literally I'll tell you, I had to say goodbye to a client. That was number one. I was in the process of responding to a client and, gosh, I guess I waited a minute too long and they could not wait for me and I lost the job like in a split second. And I was like, oh my gosh. And then I had technology problems. I had technology problems where literally a cable went bad, but before I figured out that it was the cable, I replaced an expensive part of my camera system and now I have a backup, which is good. So guess what? I bought another camera, but that's another story for another day. So I'm going to be upgrading my camera here, but until I forget out what that simple $9 cable problem was, I literally had every other problem on the planet, like I couldn't access my files. You know, my drives weren't spinning up. I had to cancel a student because I couldn't access their files. It's just been one of those weeks Lau and I'm sure you've had them yourself. I'm sure you've had them yourself. But I thought maybe we could first of all talk about it and number one, to know that I can't be the only one who's had a bad week here and there and let's talk about how we can kind of get ourselves up out of that funk, because I was in a funk Lau. 0:02:36 - Lau I was in a funk, 1970s funk. You're in the VOR. That's what you are. That's a voiceover recovery zone. 0:02:43 - Anne There you go. That's what you are. I need recovery tips. You do. 0:02:48 - Lau You know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of athletes that are top athletes and they do a lot of commercial campaigns. Now on, choose that. Help you recover from those extreme physical wanting tasks if they're doing a marathon of a day. 0:03:03 - Anne And I have those shoes, I do, I have recovery shoes. Yeah, and they're the best Recovery. 0:03:08 - Lau VO what we need. A recovery VO SOS Process, process of some kind I need to pair recovery VO sneakers. There you go. You need an in-house recovery therapist in the booth. 0:03:23 - Anne Well, I did purchase a new camera for this booth, and so I don't know if that was shopping to recover. We're not sure. 0:03:30 - Lau Retail therapy. Retail therapy, I love it. 0:03:34 - Anne That's exactly what it was. But yeah, I will tell you, mentally it was tough and it's interesting because I'm a fairly upbeat person and I think you are too. Sometimes, when things get to me, gosh, it's just in the back of my mind and it gnaws away at me and it affects my demeanor, it affects my performance. Gosh knows I can't come in here and really put my 100% into my auditions or into my gigs because I'm upset, I'm hurt, and that's the thing. It's probably not even that I'm, maybe I'm angry, but most of all I think for me, I take things so personally. Again, it's so hard not to in this business because it is part of our personal brand and so if something doesn't go right, if a client isn't happy or a client can't wait for me, I'm like, oh, you know, I take it to heart and I take it like, oh, they couldn't wait a minute for me, I should be worth that. And what happened? 0:04:30 - Lau And I'm squilling what you're peeling right now. I totally get it. 0:04:34 - Anne I empathize, I'm not sure I've heard that phrase before, but I like it. 0:04:42 - Lau Well, adopt it. Okay, I'll start with tip one. Let's do our top tips on this because I think it is so real, so important and, as you're expressing right now, so heavy on us. When it happens, we can make light of it now because it's a little bit later, but when it's happening it feels very intense and you're a very emotional, caring and very due diligence kind of person, so you may take it harder. So here's my first tip. My first tip is this take a step back and assess. If you can assess where you or myself, if I'm talking about myself where you are at literally in the moment that this is happening. Where am I at mentally? Is this the beginning of the day? The middle of the day? Am I tired? Is at the end of the day? Has it been a difficult week? Has it been a light week? Has this person pulled the rug out from under me before, or is this brand new? And I like doing this kind of an assessment because it helps to intellectualize and analyze when I want to immediately emotionalize. So I want to move that emotion aside and I want to intellectualize it because my reaction to this is going to be very different and unique based on where I am coming from in this moment. So you're saying you had a really hard week. It was a tough week. If it wasn't if it was a fabulous week and everything went perfectly and you were joyful and it happened to you you may have reacted differently. You may have been coming from a different mindset. So my tip one is take a step back, objectify, check in with your mindset and really do a quick psychological checklist. Where am I at in this moment? Does my reaction fit the crime, so to speak? Is it accurate to the level of what I perceive was done to me? And sometimes we find it's not. Sometimes we're exaggerating, sometimes we're hyperbolic about our responses, sometimes we're creating and crafting things about it. That actually aren't even there, based on where we're coming to the situation. So take a breath, take a step back and analyze where I am at as this is happening to me. That's my tip one. 0:06:58 - Anne I love that. I think that's really a great tip, because what I did do to try to get myself out of the funk initially was okay, I saw red flags, and this was not a complete surprise to me, and so I tried to justify was there something that maybe I was not doing or communicating that contributed to this? And of course, I want to say, well, no, of course not Nothing. I actually couldn't figure out where there could have been something that would have gone astray, and so I actually went back and I really revisited all the steps and my interactions and I had seen red flags. And I also have to understand and I think it's important maybe for bosses to understand that you can't please everyone all the time. And that's a tough one for me because I'm that kind of person that really I strive to be liked. I like to be liked, and so if somebody has an issue or a problem, that translates to clients, and so if there is an issue with that, it really affects me personally and it makes me second guess things. 0:08:10 - Lau It sounds like you had two tips right there, though. Yeah, it sounds like am I right that there were two that were together, it wasn't just one tip. 0:08:18 - Anne Yes, it was yes, yes, which I love that. 0:08:22 - Lau I think that's great. So what was the first one you gave? 0:08:24 - Anne So the first one is just to really go back and, if this is an interaction with a client, go back and review the facts, review the emails and a lot of times we deal with clients through email and I really feel that that's hard sometimes to communicate via email and when there's emotions involved or misunderstandings and going back, reviewing the facts to make sure that there was something that you could have stopped or done differently, and then, once assessed, realize that, well, you cAnneot please everyone all the time, and that's a big realization for me. That's a huge one for me. 0:09:01 - Lau You cAnneot please everyone all the time, and the tip you also gave to was to trust your instinct. So many of us are not listening to that inner voice of what the instinct is telling you and pushing you and you have to really pay attention because that instinct is really there for a reason. I'm going to add one more to this and I'm going to say as much as we like to like and we like to be liked and there is a professional likeability factor in sales and in relationships. There certainly is. I don't think the deal or the job relies on being liked. You don't want to be disliked, necessarily, but I don't think that you need to feel personally close to someone or feel like they understand you. It's really much more important that you're providing value to them. And what they're needing and sometimes that feels that perceives as if they don't like me or they're not getting me or they're not whatever, when it's really. How are they processing their information? What are their takeaways and are they actually understanding what you're giving to them? I think a lot of this dislike, discommunication, is based on one party just not understanding the information that's given to them and misunderstanding it, and then it feels like they don't like you when it's really not that. 0:10:23 - Anne I totally, totally agree with you there. I mean, especially in today's day and age, where, again, we are so bombarded with data and chaos and we communicate via text or email and it's so easy to misinterpret that, that's where I always like to get on the phone, talk to someone, and I really believe that a lot of our issues can be solved by just talking to one another and talking to your client. Sometimes that's not possible, whereas in the case of when the client, when I lost the job, I literally you snooze, you lose, kind of thing, and I snoozed for like a minute. I'm like whew, and literally I just lost the job. And they're like sorry, we had to give it to somebody else. And I'm like and then it became. And then it became damn All right. So I want to make sure that next time I'm still on that roster, I'm still top of mind and I'm still there. So I quickly said, all right, snooze, you lose. All right, fine, I get that. He's a busy guy and we don't always know like our clients. They have deadlines, they have pressures, they have stresses, and I think we need to really understand that and not take that personally. And I was like, well, okay, he was under the gun, under pressure to get that job done. I wasn't there to reassure him or say, yes, I'm here, I can get that recording done. I literally responded to him a couple of minutes late and then afterwards he said sorry, I didn't hear back from you. And I said, okay, I wrote back. And I said, well, I'm really bummed and I hope that you'll continue to keep me at the top of your list for next time. And he wrote back. He said, oh yeah, no worries, you are, you are my top talent, you are my top talent roster. So I felt much better after that. 0:12:07 - Lau I gotta tell you and you know my instinct says about that situation, I think honestly this would be a situation I can't prove it, of course, but I think it had nothing to do with you. I think, because of the timeframe you're giving me and how fast that happened, that they went either another direction really quickly, or the job went down, or they're not going to record it, or they had a date change. I honestly, in that amount of time, I don't think they have five other people lined up. I think that I feel that's what. I was like I think it was a logistical thing that happened that he didn't want to get into. He just said oh, all for the best, it's okay, I'm all set. 0:12:41 - Anne And I thought about that too. I'm glad you said that that's what it feels like. I did think about that too, and then I was like, well, that's okay, as long as I'm still top of mind for him and he's still good that he responded and said that. So, and you're right, that makes me think that, yeah, maybe there was something else that happened. I was like it literally happened so quickly and I was like, wow, I lost that and so, oh well. 0:13:03 - Lau But isn't that the case? Isn't exactly that what we're talking about? is that, of course, you felt bad because you wanted to please and you're on that campaign and you have a relationship. You don't want to let people down. I get that. But isn't that a perfect case to take a step back and say, hmm, that happened in 4.3 minutes, so chances are great it didn't probably have anything to do with me. And even if it did, it did. I mean, life happens, but chances are great. My logistical power is gonna tell me. Most likely it's not me. That would be a good place to take a step back and to kind of think in that way yeah Right, and it wasn't meant to be, and maybe it didn't happen. It wasn't meant to be, you're right, you're right, it wasn't meant to be. 0:13:45 - Anne It happened. And so recovery I have to tell you recovery from that one because I kind of snapped back and said, hmm, let me send him an email to make sure, right, that I'm still top of mind and that, so, sorry, maybe next time my bad and looking forward to the next campaign or whatnot. And the fact that he wrote back and said, oh yeah, absolutely made me feel good and so that was helpful to recover. But again, going through like, okay, what could possibly have happened? And understanding that you don't know literally, and especially if obviously I can't get on the phone and say, hey, what's wrong with him right at this moment and we can't do that with all of our clients Some of them we can I think that for us, for recovery, I think it's important to communicate, and so that would be my biggest tip really is, when you are having those bad days and it has to do with clients or vendors or people that you're working with, I mean, really I would say, just go above and beyond to try to communicate your feelings and communicate especially in the business aspect of things, whether you're hurt or not. 0:14:52 - Lau I do feel that communication is key and that's the next tip that you just gave and it reminded me. The first visual that came into my head is like the circus, or Cirque du Soleil God forbid someone falls or someone gets hurt, whatever, unless they die, god forbid or they're really, really hurt. Guess what the families teach in circus school since two years old Get up, go back right now, do not think about it, go and attack it. So what you're saying, which I truly believe in, is a discipline fall off the horse, do a quick email, do a quick text or whatever the relationship is, do a quick, even if it's a client. Let's say, a client is unhappy and you're either issuing a refund or you're issuing an apology, or whatever the case may be. Always follow up, don't get afraid, don't run away Like this is the boogeyman. You know what I mean. Like always come back in a day. Or be angry and not yet, or be angry and start concocting a whole scenario, go back and say hey, you know that didn't work well, I think we fixed it. Let me give you something else that you may need. Let's do this again and I'm telling you nine times out of 10, people are pretty forgiving. People are pretty like oh yeah, right, that didn't work well, but all right, let's talk about the next thing. 0:16:12 - Anne Yeah, absolutely, and I think if not, then you've got to just let it go. It's like one of those things. I mean, it can become toxic right For you if you're letting it bother you, letting it affect you, and it really can just become a toxic thing that can build up and you don't want that. That does not affect your performance or your business in a positive light, and so not, at all Not at all. 0:16:36 - Lau I got one more for you. Yeah, okay, we always talk about in this society in general the idea of self care, taking care of yourself, I think, when you're in recovery which we're all in recovery just from daily work and stress. 0:16:53 - Anne I'm glad you got that out. 0:16:54 - Lau Yeah, if you build in a care for yourself, that is very specific. So, whether it's, you know, whatever it is a massage, going to the nail salon, going to the gym. 0:17:04 - Anne I sat in the garden lot with the sun on my face, because the sun has not come out lately here in California and I was so happy, I just breathed, pet my kitties and just sat out there for a good half an hour and just took a break and you're right. I love the self care because you just got to let it go. 0:17:24 - Lau And you need recovery time. So, like you and I have very heavy days at times. 0:17:29 - Anne Yes. 0:17:29 - Lau Sometimes it's going to a movie or having a latte, or taking a quiet walk or there's a gazillion things or climbing the mountain. Whatever you do, you must make time to do it, because not only is it for your mental health and your physical health, but you have to put things into perspective and the only way to do it is to step away from it. Yeah, you have to step away. 0:17:51 - Anne Stepping away, I think, is very important and I have been guilty of kind of working myself into the ground during the pandemic. I mean it was wonderful for my business but for my health and my mental state it was too much. I've gotten to the point where I'm much better now at kind of stepping away for a little bit of time. 0:18:09 - Lau Me too. 0:18:09 - Anne Yeah, and taking those moments to just relax and appreciate, I find that I'm much more productive and I'm much better off when I do that. I've slipped into the pattern before. I've kind of been a workaholic all my life. I know these lessons and I should remember them but you know what. Every once in a while, we just need to have something kind of slap us in the face and say and wake up, you know wake up. 0:18:32 - Lau It's also. It's in your makeup, though. I mean it's in your genetics, it's in your persona. It's not really a problem per se. It's just something you have to manage and be careful it doesn't take you over but it's what makes you great Also it's what makes you successful and happy. Also, right, I also want to mention too because you and I do this for each other and that's what makes us great new friends, and that is have a sounding board, have someone. 0:18:57 - Anne You were my sounding board this week. You were diplomatic. 0:19:00 - Lau They can be in the same business, they can be in the same space. But someone who's a little bit more neutralized, diplomatic, not someone who's going to get hot and heavy with toxicity, hot and heavy with anger with you. Agreed, you know, rev you up, get you angry. You don't want that. You want someone to bring you down and make you feel better. I know like when I always communicate, I just instantly feel better. 0:19:23 - Anne Yeah. You know, I'm always like I have somebody that can empathize, not necessarily preach or get you riled up, or I just really believe that the sounding board, the whoever you have your support group, is really helpful and somebody that will understand and that, I think, is really great, because what is the first thing I did? Well, maybe it wasn't the first thing I did, but I definitely texted you and I'm like, oh my God, here's what happened. 0:19:47 - Lau Yeah, and it's great and I love that because I feel like you trust me when you do that and I feel like I have to honor listening to that without getting overly involved with the emotion of it, because you come not just you, but anyone who's a friend comes because they want you to save them from that. They want you to listen or offer a moment of advice. They don't want to get riled up and revved up. So I think that that's absolutely brilliant to have at least one person, if not more than you can do that with, and trust that they're not going to go say everything that you're saying to them to everyone else. 0:20:24 - Anne Right, I'm telling all the bosses out there. 0:20:28 - Lau You want trust. I have bad week, I have bad week. You want trust. 0:20:33 - Anne That's right, that's right. 0:20:34 - Anne But yeah, no, I think that recovery is important. I mean, this happens to all of us, it gets us, and I try so hard. I'm like, oh, you think I would be over it by now, but no, no no, no, no. Things still affect because I care. 0:20:46 - Lau Things still affect. 0:20:48 - Anne I think because we care so much about our jobs, we care about our businesses, we care about our voices and our clients and if you didn't care, it wouldn't affect you. We care. 0:20:58 - Lau We do, we care a lot, and one thing you do really really well I try to do this too, and this is being a proactive business person is when those things go right or go wrong or whatever. One of the first things you and I do we have this in common is we go try to fix it elsewhere for future population, future clients. For instance, let's say someone misread something on the website or let's say something was by accident omitted from a contract, whatever, we immediately go in and we fix that Absolutely. We fix that the next person doesn't experience it and we don't have the same issue. That's something a lot of people don't do. They go through the hardship and recover, but they don't actually remedy the problem itself the problem. 0:21:43 - Anne Yeah, absolutely Right, and we've done podcasts on this. Learning from our mistakes I mean, you know, mistakes are wonderful actually when you learn from them and then you can implement that remedy and try to make sure that it doesn't happen again and again. I think, opening up the lines of communication, self-care, having that sounding board, having somebody out there to support you, all of these things and really taking action and owning up. If there is something that can be remedied, own up to it and put those remedies in place, and that is going to be an essential part of recovery. 0:22:17 - Lau Exactly. And one more to throw in there is to deal with the situation, even though it may be uncomfortable or make you upset. Go right to the person or people, deal with it and say what can I do to make the situation right? And sometimes there's a huge learning curve in that they say something that you never knew before or you didn't expect. That's not personality driven, it's not necessarily about you. It's about the practice, the process. 0:22:46 - Anne Absolutely the product. 0:22:48 - Lau Well, I'm not happy with this product. The demo doesn't represent me, it's okay. Okay, good to know. Can you point out one or two specifics that I could potentially fix? Well, I don't like the order. Can we fix that? Well, yeah, we can fix that. You see, like I can't read that mind. You can't read those minds. 0:23:07 - Anne We're not mind readers. 0:23:08 - Lau So the more communication now. Sometimes it does open up Pandora's box and you don't want to have an ongoing year after year with that. But you can tell if someone's reasonable. If someone is really reasonable and is relatively kind in nature, I like to try to fix the problem. If there is a problem, if it's a personality clash or they just don't like me, or whatever, it's not going to be fixed. It is what it is. Cut your losses and go yeah. 0:23:34 - Anne Right, and if it is toxic, cut the toxicity out. That's it, and learn from it and don't be bitter. That's right. That's the thing Just like okay, I feel clear, I feel lifted, and then things can progress forward. 0:23:45 - Lau I like to say don't get bitter, Get better. There you go so in recovery. 0:23:50 - Anne don't get bitter, Get better. 0:23:53 - Lau So I want more thank you of yourself a lot of time. Sometimes recovery doesn't happen in a day or two. 0:23:58 - Anne Sometimes it needs a little bit longer, that is for sure, if it's a big loss. 0:24:02 - Lau It's going to take longer. 0:24:03 - Anne Yeah, and this didn't go away right away. I get frustrated with that. I know I'm that kind of person. Me too, I'm a happy person and so like if I'm not happy and I can't get happy, it's so frustrating to me, Like that to me is like well, I should be able to work myself out of this. I expect so much right, this shouldn't bother me, and you know what. I have to allow it, I have to allow it to happen and I have to be okay with that and I have to give myself grace. No-transcript bosses out there while in recovery mode. 0:24:31 - Lau Great conversation, great conversation and, by the way, your last tip of the day is it's not always based on bad things happening. You have great days and great work days that you're exhausted by and take a lot out of you and drain you. 0:24:44 - Anne You need recovery from those amazing days too, sounds like some retail therapy, vo Retail Therapy. There we go, it's in order. Anyways, bosses, do you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart? And if you've ever wanted to do more to help out, you can visit 100voiceshoocareorg to learn how. Thanks shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can network and connect like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week, guys. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Mwah, see you next time. Bye, bosses. 0:25:20 - Outro Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host and Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL Okay. 0:25:52 - Anne Okay, let's try to get in a little more emphasis on this word. Just really pop that word, really pop that word. Okay, well, okay, maybe not that much. No, not that much. No, not that much. 0:26:05 - Anne All right, let's try. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Anne and Lau recently held an Audition Demolition workshop which included a live callback and casting process. In this episode, the Bosses discuss the audition demolition and how it mirrors the casting process. They explain the importance of taking direction well, researching scripts, and approaching every piece of copy as an actor. During a live callback, don't forget to have fun and enjoy being in a room with other people. Anne and Lau also discuss the importance of feedback and how it can help aspiring voice actors hone their craft Finally, we examine some of the memorable people and performances that stood out. The Bosses finish by reminding listeners that our next Audition Demolition is coming up soon! Transcript 0:00:01 - Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 0:00:19 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast and the Boss Business Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my bossy co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey Anne, how are you? I'm awesome, Lau. How are you Good? Fantastic, Lau. We had the most amazing audition demolition this past weekend. 0:00:45 - Lau Woohoo, it was super, super power. 0:00:49 - Anne Yeah, I think we should chat about it. Oh, let's go, I'm ready. Yeah, well, for those bosses who are unaware, we created a audition demolition workshop, which is very similar. We did it once before a Lau, but we added a couple of new twists to it and essentially it was to mimic the casting process, the audition process, and so people could enter and they could choose to get feedback or not. They could audition and get feedback, or audition and not get feedback through our Dropbox new application called Replay. Lau and I were selecting a short list after that and ultimately did not announce the short list until the live show, which was this past weekend. I think it was so exciting, Lau. 0:01:42 - Lau It was so fun, it was great. It took a while right. It took us time to get through it. It wasn't a quick deal. It took us. How long was the show, how long did it run? 0:01:52 - Anne A couple hours, it was a couple hours and we had 10 people that we called back, just like in a real audition I was talking Lau about. When I used to drive into LA I would get notice from my agent that said you've been called back and they want to hear you. I would drive oh God, I would drive into LA and go to the studio and I'd see a lot of times I'd see my voiceover friends there. It was kind of nice. It was like a big party. But yeah, we were still auditioning and so I was a little nervous. I think all of us had a little bit of nervous. But we would be called in one by one to read a script and Lau, and I tried to mimic that as much as possible during our weekend, and so people were not aware if they were on the shortlist until they got to the live show and then we announced the shortlist one by one. It wasn't, we announced everybody on the shortlist at once. It basically like as if you were waiting in the studio lobby to be called into the studio to read, and so that's what we did. Everybody was surprised and we had 10 people that we shortlisted and we had them come in and guess what? The client changed the script. Now, we did that before, but that's typically what happens, right, you read an audition and then when you go in person to audition, they have a different script. That's almost always the case, I think, and so we changed the script on them, and I don't know Lau. What were your thoughts? 0:03:15 - Lau I thought it went really well. I mean surprising that I kind of thought to some degree many would fall apart with that and not know what was going on and there would be mass confusion and there would be fire and tornadoes and earthquakes. And Charlton Heston would come out of the booth and then we would be eating alive, right, and then the sea would part. I was like, oh, what are we doing inviting this? But no, seriously. We had some faith in these wonderful talent, and rightly so. They all came through. Everyone came through, I think, with flying colors, and we did. We're good actors, ann. I mean, we made them sufficiently sweat a little bit as if you would in a real live audition. There was a little stress, little tension in the air. I know people were nervous because I saw conversations beforehand flying around on email and in the chat and I love that. I think that that gave it that flavor of a real. You know it was a mock audition but it was a real audition feel, which is something we wanted to mirror for the professional development and education of it. Absolutely, that worked well. I thought that really worked well. 0:04:20 - Anne And I think that it's really good to get yourself practiced in a live situation where you're definitely feeling adrenaline, whether you're nervous in a good way or even a bad way, right, it really helps you to get seasoned and to figure out what you have to do to work out those nerves to really perform well, and I think that that was a good experience for everybody that participated. And I feel that, by the way, and so what? We waited until the very beginning and we said guess what? The client changed the script and then we gave them the new script. So talent did not have a lot of time to prepare. As a matter of fact, I would say the first talent that we called up usually is the one at the disadvantage for this particular show, because typically we're not listening to each other audition. We're going in one by one and it's a private thing and we get private feedback. But this because we wanted this to be an educational experience. We had an entire Zoom room full of people who didn't know if they made the audition and were listening to the feedback live, real time from both Lau and myself, and so that will happen a lot of times. Lau, right in a real situation, you'll have more than one person giving you feedback. You'll have an engineer in there, you'll have a director, you might have a client. You might have more than one person that's offering you direction at the time, and they could have different ideas about the direction. Now, I think Lau, you and I, we think fairly similarly, but there were some auditions where I wanted to hear something different than you did or feedback that we gave was absolutely, I think, different in different spots, but I think overall, we were sticking to the casting specs that were laid out there and that was very similar to a lot of casting specs. That is, make it authentic, make it real, make it, make it conversational. So that's always a task, I think, for talent, and when they're just seeing the script for the first time and even if we've been directing other people, they might be oh my God, they might be preparing. They might not have listened to our feedback, right? 0:06:24 - Lau Yes, yes, and that was the great part of having everyone in the room. That would not happen in an audition most of the time most anywhere but we wanted that educational experience. We wanted people to observe each other's work and get the benefit of everyone's feedback so that even if they were nervous in preparing, they could absorb some of what they were hearing before they went on. And I think that it was a blessing for people to kind of go later and it was also a blessing for people to go first. 0:06:55 - Anne Sure, oh, I agree. 0:06:55 - Lau Because it's a very different experience. I also wanted to bring up, too, our experience, ann, of when we were commenting in the Dropbox and doing all of our feedback, that I heard in the session from a number of people and post via email thanking us that they felt that the feedback was so wonderful, so detailed, so necessary and it was like a drink of nectar for a lot of people that said I'd like to think what you said was authentic and real and that it gave me time, it made me feel special, it made me feel like someone was paying attention to me, that status casting agency status, coaching status and that I could walk away with some real tools, practice tools to work on. Absolutely. It wasn't just about am I good, am I bad? 0:07:46 - Anne am I right am? 0:07:46 - Lau I wrong. It was much more about reminding me that I have a full process here and I can go in many different directions, and I'd like to think that you and I gave as much authentic feedback as we could, rather than artificial feedback just for the sake of entertainment value. 0:08:03 - Anne Oh yeah, no, absolutely, and I'm going to say that I think that what I loved about it is that the educational component that came into it with the feedback and this is the feedback not just during the live show, this is the feedback via Dropbox. The really cool thing about Dropbox Replay and offering feedback there's a lot of times you'll notice that you submit your auditions via Dropbox and you always have to be careful how you name them and there's lots of criteria when you upload an audition. The cool thing about being able to offer feedback for all the people that requested it is that we were able to give feedback along a timeline, and so if there was a particular passage that they did well or a particular passage where they maybe lost their authenticity or we had a critique, we could specify it at the specific time that it happened, and that's something that you don't always get in a real audition. As a matter of fact, usually in an audition you'll go in and read, and it's very rare that they'll offer feedback. They might give you a set of directions to do it again and may not offer as much verbose feedback as we did during the session, and you're kind of left with. Okay, I hope I did good. And so you know, I'm always walking out of the room going well, I think they liked me. I hope they liked me, I hope I nailed it. And a lot of times they will give some generic thank you so much. Sometimes they won't say a word, they'll just say okay, thank you, and you'll walk out that door going gosh, I hope I nailed it. Which is what I love about the audition demolition is that we were able to really go beyond that and really act as like okay, here's what we would offer you feedback for the educational component. And then, when we made our decision Lau this is what I loved we muted ourselves, because a lot of times we're there, live in the studio or we're in a Zoom session and we are being directed and then all of a sudden they're gonna mute and they're gonna talk and we can see them talking behind the glass and you're like okay, did they like that? What are they talking about? And you know, maybe they're talking about lunch, we don't know. Maybe they're talking about my performance. Was it good, was it bad? Oh, my God, what are they gonna tell me next? And then they'll say okay, thank you, we're done. But I liked our mimicking of that. 0:10:14 - Lau And there was a funny moment, though you can't forget to share, that hilarious moment, where we had talked about giving each other a call, a cell phone call, so that we could have this sort of intercom system between the two of us in case we wanna bring up some details to each other or just remind each other about certain cues. I totally forgot, and it was about a quarter of the way through and I said oh wow, I get a call. And I called Ann and I said Ann, listen, because one person didn't show up. I said do you want to have another call back, since we have an open slot? And she's like Lau, everyone can hear you. Right now Can everyone hear Lau? And they're like, and I'm like, that's okay, they'll learn from it, it's great for them. 0:10:59 - Anne There you go, there you go, and here's the deal In a real situation, right? If you don't show up to that casting call, that's it. You snooze, you lose, you're out, and they may make a decision at the last minute to call more people, or they need to hear more people, or maybe they didn't get what they needed from the first audition. Gosh, that goes on all the time. Right, Lau, they recast it because they didn't really get what they wanted. So we did that too which I love it through a wrench in it, because everybody that was shortlisted thought that was it. And then all of a sudden we had a discussion. We said we'd like to call back Actually, we were gonna call back two people, but we ended up calling back one other person, which again added that element of surprise which again hypes up the adrenaline and the nerves. And so I think again, this audition demolition Lau we can do this like regularly, because I think it's a skill that every voice artist should have in their toolbox to be able to be prepared on the fly, work through those nerves and just perform and get that gig and be able to take direction well, right, and no matter how we slice it, of course we're always about process or process oriented people. 0:12:14 - Lau But there is a product, there is a gig at stake and in this contest we had prizes, we had some cash. 0:12:22 - Anne We had cash. 0:12:22 - Lau We had cash we had cash, we had a going on. People were really fighting and cLauing for the real deal. It wasn't just oh, you won, congratulations. It was, let's actually reward you. Who is something real world that you can enjoy, right and people love that. 0:12:38 - Anne I think people love that. I mean, who doesn't love cash? Who doesn't love cash? I mean, that's just as you know, that's an investment in your business, right? So invest in the audition demolition and you can win cash and or swag, and so I'm extremely excited to have offered that. 0:12:54 - Lau I wanna ask what were some auditions that really stuck out for you and why did they stick out for you? I mean, even in the larger pool, not just the short list, but even in the larger pool there were so many unique people. Oh yeah, they were diverse talent very across the board. No two people were the same. What were some of the more memorable people and performances that your audience can learn from today? 0:13:18 - Anne Well, first and foremost, understanding that I'm going to be casting for a particular job and a particular company, which this happened to be University of Phoenix, I had a demographic in mind that I wanna advertise to and I had a sound in my head that I thought would be a good representative of this particular company or university that would be able to sell effectively. And I think that every casting director has an idea in their head as to what kind of a voice they're looking for, which usually ends up in the specs. But sometimes they change their mind when somebody gets creative or maybe interprets the script in a little bit of a different way. And it was always those auditions that stood out to me, the ones that it wasn't like the song that I heard in my head. Right, we were asking for authentic, we were asking for conversational, and those people that could really come into the first few words, that sounded like they had a story, they had a person they were talking to, those were the ones that perked up my ears. And, of course, those that had a very different, a very different sound as well. I mean, I will say I mean I can't say that your sound doesn't come into play here, because, again, we're hiring people based upon how we think they're going to effectively sell our product. Right, what? 0:14:40 - Lau about you Lau? I would agree, and I made a concerted effort to come in with a very open mind and play the producer, who has not as much idea of what I'm actually looking for. I just know, I know the product, I know the school, I know the program, I've seen their advertising campaigns. I get that, yeah, but I want to keep an open mind because I'm not exactly sure which direction I want to go in. Yeah, age wise, diversity factor, accent wise and I'm glad I did that, because everyone was so different and so unique. I would have been let down only in the sense that I would have been looking for that needle in a haystack. Oh, I was looking at the whole haystack and because we did that, our shortlist was so diverse. 0:15:27 - Anne Oh, it was no two people who are alike, right. 0:15:30 - Lau You'd say, was there even a breakdown involved with this, because they were so large? 0:15:33 - Anne and that's what's so cool. What I love about what you just said was I said okay, I had an idea in mind, right, I know the demographic, I know the product and I know the type of sound that I'm looking for and that's what I'm gonna put in the casting specs. However, you're absolutely right. By being open-minded and hearing a bunch of different voices, then I started to think, well, okay, for this campaign, I like this voice because of this factor. I like this voice because that's the one I originally thought would be a really great choice for selling. But now I can see that this other voice, which may not have been anywhere, like I thought right, would really be effective in helping to sell my product as a casting director. So, yes, keeping it open-minded, understanding, guys, that even though the casting specs may call for something, right, if you bring something unique to the read, you bring yourself, you bring that personality, you bring something that just makes us go oh, okay, I didn't think about that. It really is a wonderful testament to, literally, your voice. It could be any voice, right, it doesn't have to be a particular sound, doesn't have to be a particular style, it can be you, it can be what you bring to the read and that can sway a casting director's choice, which is amazing, right, it's wonderful, it's hopeful and it makes you feel like, alright, well then, I still am gonna give my best, right? Well, if you're looking at the casting spectrum, I don't know, I'm probably not gonna get it. I mean, no, don't feel that way at all, because we were surprised very, and actually even in our decisions, right, in terms of who were we going to cast when it came down to it. Right, we were going back and forth between a couple of different voices and I think that, well, let's keep these guys on hold or on call back, or who else would be great for this campaign. There were multiple choices. 0:17:19 - Lau Yeah, and I was playing tricks in my head saying, oh, I can't wait to see who's gonna win this thing, because I have no idea right now. Literally throughout the whole thing, I literally Could not figure out who is going to win and who is going to book the gate, and I think that's very true and very accurate to the casting process. Many times it comes right down to the wire when everyone is disagreeing on a talent or maybe they need to bring in another talent, and you and I did that. 0:17:46 - Anne We weren't necessarily it didn't bring but, we were going back and forth about. 0:17:50 - Anne We wanted to narrow it down, and it was tough for us to narrow down those choices because we each had our own Independent, we had our favorites and we had people that we thought were best suited for the campaign. I'm glad that we were able to. Obviously, we awarded the gig to one person and that's a congratulations to Joshua Goodman and then we awarded to runners up, because that was something that we thought you know we're gonna keep you on our shortlist for perhaps the next campaign and that was Pat Kennedy, was one of our alternates and gender Macintosh. So congratulations to everybody and really congratulations to everyone who auditioned. I mean, I was so impressed with the professionalism and the talent that we heard and I'm excited to do this again, and I'm excited about changing up the scripts, the genre right and changing up the scripts and having even more people audition for this. So I think it was a real success. I don't know what are you excited about for what's up next? 0:18:51 - Lau Well, I'll tell you one piece of excitement, and I don't like to say this at the top. It's what we call metatheatrical. It's a reality within a reality, within a reality, but the truth is, this was not a mock audition when I looked at this, and I'm sure you were thinking this too, in regards to recommending clients for projects that you're a part of. I am always looking for new talent. So there will be people that I'm going to reach out to for MCVO contracts. 0:19:20 - Anne We don't say that and I'll be referring people because it becomes a top of mind. I know who my talent are Top of mind, yeah, and I'll be casting for projects as well. While I'm not a talent agent like yourself, I do have a number of clients that I help cast for and I actually have a couple of rosters that I place people that I recommend I place them for jobs and so the truth is is like it's a mock audition for educational purposes. 0:19:47 - Lau but there's a subtext of reality that whenever you're in front of working people in the industry, they're always going to be thinking about you for potential work. How do you put someone like us in front of some of these people and say don't look at them for work, just look at them as a student? It's not possible, because they're working people, they're working professionals. So we want to give educational value, lots of educational value and development, but we also want to potentially find new people. 0:20:19 - Anne we could be working with Awesome talent. No question, let's there to lose for auditioning, right? So our next audition demolition and again. By the time this airs, it may have passed already, but I really think, talking about our experiences with the first one, I think it ran gosh. It ran smoother than I even thought, and so I'm really excited to continue this on a regular basis because I think it's just so educational and, as bosses, we're all about the education. I'm all about providing a great resource. That's what we do here at the VioBoss podcast, and we're here to help. We're here to hopefully give you some advice and tips along your journey in this crazy voiceover industry that we all love so much. And hey, what can I? 0:21:03 - Lau say I think it's fantastic and I want to be clear to those who have no idea what we're talking about and want to get involved with it that you're getting literally hours worth of feedback. Oh yeah, not just a quick. That was great and you're done. You're getting all the written feedback first Plus and our Dropbox Plus. You're going to show up on the contest day in real time live and you're going to get all sorts of feedback. You're going to hear everyone else's feedback. You're going to get to observe and steal and absorb everyone else's. Then you'll get your own. So it's like double feedback, Endless feedback. 0:21:38 - Anne It's like double feedback. It's more than if you just go to one session, because you're getting much more written feedback from both Lau and myself, whether you make the shortlist or not, and during the class you're going to have the exposure to finding out. If you're on the shortlist and even if you don't make the shortlist, you get to watch the others perform and be redirected and get that education as well. So I mean, gosh, the value I'm just saying the value is incredible, guys. 0:22:08 - Lau It's massive, it's huge. I mean, I don't know any other circumstance that offers that kind of thing. 0:22:14 - Anne And who offers cash? Who offers? Cash as a prize and the amount of time that we're dealing with a compressed amount of time, right, right, you can win back your money plus some, win back your investment and some, and have fun doing it and be top of mind for those people that may be able to help cast you in further roles. 0:22:34 - Lau So and do you have a couple of quick tips? I love tips, couple of quick tips for the next round of talent. Who are like I have to do this, I got to get in on this or the round that just came through. I know a lot of them are already talking about coming back. They want to have another go of it, they want to be challenged again. Let's talk about quickly a couple of tips that we can offer them when they come back. Good idea, when they're coming in for the first time. 0:22:58 - Anne Well, I'm going to say, first and foremost, do your research on the script, do some analysis before you run into your studio and just read it as if you this is the way you think it should sound. I really think you've got to spend a few moments and, if you can, google the product, google the company, find out like who their demographic is, find out if they've had other campaigns. Take a look at those campaigns. See what their style is, what their brand is, what their mission statement is, and I think all of that information can help you to voice for that company better. And also make sure that you are, after the analysis, that you really look at it as an actor and I know you're gonna probably expound on this one, but I want you to really look on that script as an actor. You're not gonna probably get a storyboard with it, and so you have to try to imagine what's happening in the scene, always know who you are and who you're talking to, and really put yourself in a scene so that you are authentically in it, telling a story where all storytellers right. We have to tell the story. We have to engage the listener into a believable, authentic performance and Lau. I'm sure you're gonna go off on that one, oh my gosh. 0:24:11 - Lau I second that. I third that I also don't want you to lose that fun factor, because there is a tremendous fun factor to not just voicing the copy but also being with people in a room. When you're with people in a room, I know it's scary, it's nerve-wracking, you don't know who everyone is, but I want you to enjoy, like, really relish the moment and have a little bit of personalization as you. So some of the time when you were giving a direction in, or we gave an adjustment or we were just greeting people, there were some people that stuck out in my mind as being very memorable because they had that mix of business acumen with warmth and fun, and they smiled a lot. There was one talent His teeth were so white I couldn't stop looking at them. He just smiled the whole time because we were visually in a room seeing each other. We weren't just hearing each other audio wise, but all of that counts for something it does. Yeah, so that I know, okay, this talent knows how to smile on a lot of commercial reads. This person knows how to be a warm, engaging person. So if they're dealing with our clients, they're gonna be that way, like there's a lot of reasons. 0:25:20 - Anne Good points, excellent Right. 0:25:22 - Lau We have to enjoy. Let go be social a little bit, be personable. We're not gonna waste time, we're not getting into huge conversations. It's not a party, but it is a real time engagement of real people, and those people stick in my mind and relationships do matter. 0:25:39 - Anne I mean, it's one of those things that, like you said, it's not a party that you're gonna be talking the director's ear off, but you certainly have to have a little bit of a personality and have a little bit of joy and a little bit of definitely a lot of professionalism, but also let us see a little bit about who you are and that will help us to understand what you can bring to the table Absolutely, and that's within your interactions. When we're giving you direction and feedback, all of that comes out. So, yeah, good advice. 0:26:06 - Lau I'm gonna throw in another one and say it's really important to warm up. We wouldn't know for sure because we weren't asking this question, but I would suspect there were a few people who are not quite as warmed up as they could have been, mainly because they were stumbling a lot, they were going back on lines, they weren't breathing well, they were holding the breath, and I do think a lot of that is just nerves. 0:26:29 - Anne It could be nerves. 0:26:30 - Lau Yeah, real time, but take the time, even if it's an hour. Sit in your booth or take the time to stretch, drink water, breathe the air, go over your lines, feel them through, personalize them, so that it isn't just about getting the script right or I gotta get through this and sound good. It's about how do I feel you and I talked a lot about like the person that you're being and talking to is this real person? Even though it had a little bit of a corporate, boxy language to it, it's real. They're real people. So you gotta do that in your warmup. You have to incorporate that all in your warmup. You can't warm up or come in and you're colder and then you're warming up as you audition. I never recommend that. I think you should come in fully engaged full throttle, full throttle and get ready to go. I think that that was the difference. That was one of the big differences between the people who are a little bit on a higher level and people who are coming into it, kind of feeling it out. 0:27:29 - Anne Yeah, yeah, and absolutely, when you're hearing direction and feedback as well, if you've got that pencil and you've got the script or your pad, your iPad, whatever it is to make some notes, cause I know, in the heat of the moment, sometimes, when you're getting direction and feedback and they ask for another read, sometimes they give a lot of things, okay, and then over here, I'd like you to lighten up here and who are you talking to and I feel like, if you needed to make some quick notes, make sure that you have the ability to do that. I love that, yeah. 0:27:59 - Lau I even say you know, with a prop. If you're dealing with a prop and you like a prop and a prop works for you, make it a prop that counts. Make it something that is meaningful to you. The first thing that came to my mind was if I'm dealing with the University of Phoenix read, and if you watch the advertising campaigns, traditionally they're pretty heartful. There's a warmth and a thoughtfulness to it. It would be great to have what the diploma looks like in front of you, or what a graduate looks like in front of you or what personally, so that you can see how meaningful that is to someone. That is going to change their whole life. That piece of paper is going to change their whole life potentially, and just bringing that in with you can change your whole delivery versus. Let me just get the first line right. Yeah, Absolutely. 0:28:43 - Anne You know what I mean Absolutely and, like I said, I think that research and maybe looking at other commercials that they've done or other work that they've put out there to their potential clients, yeah, absolutely, that can really make a difference. 0:28:55 - Speaker 1 So wow Good, I'm excited. I can't wait for the next one. I can't wait, bosses stay tuned. 0:29:02 - Anne We will have the next dates on the VO Boss website, vobosscom. The events should be right there on the front page, and so we are looking forward to having all of you come and audition for us and take advantage of the audition. Demolition and Loth. Thank you so much, as usual, for another amazing discussion. Bosses, here's a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceshoocareorg to commit. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and connect like a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and we will see you at the next VO Boss audition demolition. 0:29:46 - Lau Yeah, see you then, woohoo, bye. 0:29:50 - Speaker 1 Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL yeah. 0:30:23 - Lau You really know your stuff. 0:30:28 - Anne I'd like somebody to say that to me you really know your stuff. I want every session to be like wow, that was amazing. 0:30:36 - Speaker 1 Oh my gosh, I know a man. 0:30:38 - Anne Bob, it's been. It's been years since we've had a talent. 0:30:41 - Speaker 1 It's somebody this talented. It's been years. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Have you ever wondered what the fundamental differences are between stage acting and voiceover acting? In this week's episode, Anne and Lau discuss the transition from stage acting to voice acting. The Bosses dive into the critical shift that happens when transitioning from the vastness of a stage to the intimacy of a vocal booth. Anne and Lau uncover the critical components of a stellar voiceover performance. With Law Lapides, we delve into the importance of displaying confidence and command in your acting space, to add credibility and appeal to your work. We discuss the art of 'acting between the sentences' and how connecting with your audience through energy and enthusiasm can create a powerful story. Transcript Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss super power series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the wonderful Lau Lapides. Hello, Happy Saturday. Happy Saturday, Hello Lau. Hello Anne, and how are you today, Lau? Lau Oh, I'm excellent. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. All right, that's ridiculous, Everyone's like. Why are you doing that? Anne Today's Bad Acting by Anne and Lau. You know, what's so funny is I get this question all the time should I take an acting class if I want to do voiceover? And I always have to say yes. I think an acting class is amazing because we are voice actors. That's why they call us voice actors. However, there are some fundamental differences in, let's say, the different types of acting stage acting on camera and voiceover. I think we should have a discussion on that today. Lau That's an excellent discussion, and you and I both work with a ton of people who are coming off the stage Absolutely, or to a microphone, yeah and need to figure out how to translate all of their knowledge, all of their training, all of really their fabulosity onto a microphone, yeah. Anne Because you're in a different space, number one, and especially because in voiceover you're in a space where you are by yourself, and so the acting has to happen, I think, much more internally, maybe focused, instead of on a stage. You've got an audience, you've got to project. There's just so many things when you're on stage, and I think you're always much grander because people in the back row have to be able to feel the effects of your acting on a stage. Lau And the point of training I mean traditionally the point of training in live theater is to reach an audience without microphones. I mean only in modern times have we been mic'd up. But, 2000 years ago in ancient Greece, in the side of a mountain, in front of 2000 people, you didn't have any microphone. Anne You had your diaphragm. That's what you had. Lau And the natural echoes of the mountain. So, yes, I think it's really important to be able to take acting and to learn different methodologies, different techniques. Yes, to be able to create an emotional reservoir to select from, but to understand that there is a modulation that needs to happen when you're in a technical context, like a vocal booth or in front of a camera too. Anne Yeah, now you've done both. And so what would you say are the fundamental differences from being on a stage to being behind the microphone in a booth? Lau Well, you know, one of the things that I know as a coach you hear this all the time is students will come in and say oh, I know, my director said I need to be small, I'm too big, I'm too large on a stage, you know, my gyrations are large, my sound is large, my energy is large. Okay, how do I get small? And I like to say let's switch that vocabulary up, because it's not really about big and small, so much is. It's about the context of your situation. So think about this, rather than large and small, think about what is private and what is public. When you're private, your natural instincts is to get a little quieter and to soften your physicality and to bring your energy in and to do all the things that we naturally do in a code. Switching situation versus, if I'm out in the park and I'm trying to get my kids attention and I see my friend across the park and I got the group there, I'm going to get really loud, I'm going to get a little bigger because I'm trying to transmit across a larger context. So I like to start in from a place of privacy versus public. And now in these times, in contemporary times, we are private, so to speak, we're private, meaning we're in a room, we're in a little room talking to someone when in Shakespeare's time, there was nothing private. You always had people around. Anne And I think, though, bosses, we can't mistake private for being quiet, like quiet in terms of your energy, or quiet in terms of even your voice, because I'm not saying you need to be loud, but you don't want to be super quiet or careful either. The microphone is going to be picking up every nuance of your acting, and I think that when we say to maybe make it private, we're thinking in terms of context, of where you are. So if you're on a stage and you need to kind of reach the people that are far away, from a distance, at the back of the audience, I think that's a different energy than here in Arbus right, where I still feel like if you're doing animation or you're doing video games, you do have to have the energy to go through lots of different physical, maybe altercations. Whatever might be happening in the scene, you still have to react with the same energy. It just may not be the same volume. Lau I'm glad you're saying that we're in energy, because I think that people can note being more intimate or more private or, in that scenario, smaller if you will, as being less energy, be quiet and it's not, yeah, no, it's probably more energy, right the? Truth is it can take more energy. Yeah it can be more exhausting to keep the intimacy held versus to just let it all out, right, right. And so that's kind of fascinating when you think what do I use that for? Well, if I'm doing an Advil commercial, or if I'm doing an episodic where someone is in murder, or if I'm doing this, how do I hold the intimacy and the intensity of the scene? Yes absolutely, and it's like within all your muscles. Your muscles are holding kinesthetic memory of emotion, sure. Anne I also big, big difference as well is those scenes are no longer necessarily in front of you or on the set, or bouncing off a colleague or a fellow actor. They are now all like in your head. They are all in your imagination, and so you are reacting to those scenes through your own imagination, and I think when you are behind the mic, you've got to really be energized with your imagination to create a scene and not just create the scene. I think it's so easy to create a scene, but it's really difficult to stay in the scene, especially when you're sitting here behind the mic by yourself, right, and so to keep that scene throughout your storytelling is something that I think a lot of voice actors struggle with Is a huge control factor involved, and I don't like to think of it as a control. Lau We don't really control very much. But how do we manage a scene, how do we manage a script, or manage the longevity of copy and hold on to the closeness, the intimacy, the quietness, if you will, while being full-powered, intense, high-energy, fully connected? That's where your training comes in. I mean, that's really where it is. Anne And in addition to that, is being able to be in a scene and continue that scene and actually have movement in the scene throughout your script. Right, you've also got to create that scene. There's so many times that we will get a script and there'll be nothing else except for the script in front of us. I speak from a place of doing a lot of not just commercial, but doing a lot of corporate narration, where a lot of times people are like it's talking about corporate responsibility. What scene is that? How do I create a scene? And I'm like well, you have to really think of a logical scene in which you would be responding with the words that are sitting here in front of you and that for a lot of students becomes almost like oh my gosh, I can't even think to that level. But if you do think to that level, and especially because we are storytellers and I think we need to be storytellers no matter what we do, I mean, I think there's no way that any one of us can get away with just reading a script nicely anymore. We just can't. Maybe we could do that before. And I'll tell you what it still happens. Right, I'm not here to say you're not going to get paid. If you just read nicely, that still happens. However, if you want to elevate your game and kick it up a notch and be able to do all different kinds of iterations of a storytell, right, I say, get yourself in the scene. And before you can even do that, you've got to create the scene in which the words are logical, right and realistic, because there'll be people that will say to me in corporate narration, no, I would never say these words in a conversation. And I said well, you have to make the scene in which you would say them in a conversation, and sometimes that takes a lot of imagination. It takes a little bit of research, right, to say, well, you might be talking to an investor about this and you might not word it in this particular way, but maybe you would. And so maybe there would be some words leading up to the copy that will make that copy sound more logical, right and more believable. It has to be believable what you're saying. And I just find that most people it stumps them. We'll spend probably 10 minutes taking a look at the company, taking a look at the product, reading, rereading the lines so that it makes sense. Now, why? What does this word mean? What is it talking about when you're talking about the elements? Is it the air, is it the wind, is it the sea? What are you talking about? Where's the scene? And so really, it has to take an in-depth look at the words on the page and try to make an understanding, or try to understand why those words are there, because obviously somebody was paid some money to put those words on the page. They have a scene in their head, right, they have a scene in their head that's very, very logical. Lau So we just have to come up with that scene that's logical to us so that we can make it believable and tell the story, and that's exactly why taking acting classes is just your best friend, because acting, like anything whether you're doing vocal work or singing or speech work or accent or dialect work is your toolbox of options, choices. You have a lot of choices. I mean as an instrument and creating sound and meaning and using your breath. You have a lot of choices where you want to go with that, and so it's just options and choices. I don't like to think of it all in a very boxy way like, oh, I'm big, I'm small, right, I'm wrong, I'm in, I'm out. That's a very sort of non-nuanced way of looking at things. Acting is about nuances. It's about small moments in life. It's not always about big, dramatic moments, right, a lot of our moments throughout our day. Think about this, listeners, think about this how many moments in your life, in your day, are that big? Oftentimes you're reading emails, you're dealing with contracts, you're answering the phone, you're feeding your kids, you're feeding your dogs. They're small, nuanced moments. They're detailed moments and if you don't go through the details, then the job isn't done fully, it isn't done well. I like to think of acting that way. It's not like am I big while I feed the dog or am I small? No, I have purpose and I'm thorough and I'm detailed about how I mix the water with the wet food and how much dry food I put in and what kind of bowl I put it in. So the actor, the vocal actor, has to pay attention and be observant about the nuanced choices that you're making and just trust that. That's enough. You don't have to be big, you don't have to do more, you just have to fully, fully do that. And I want to call attention too to our friend Konstantin Stanislavski, one of the most famous directors, I think, in the world, russian director, who wrote an actor prepares, and everyone should really be reading that because it's about the magic if. The magic if is what if I was a king? What if I was the president? What if I was a CEO? What if If we could say that and really believe it? Then we wouldn't have as many questions throughout about credibility. Because when I'm taking a role, taking a part, looking at the script, analysis of it, I'm immediately adopting the ideology that this could be me, rather than oh, I wouldn't say that, or I haven't lived that, or I don't really agree with that. Anne Don't judge it. Lau Don't judge your copy. You were just talking about that before we got on air you can judge in your own world, but don't judge your copy, because then you limit your choices when you do that. Anne I love that. I love that you said that, because that really helps me to explain to someone who will say to me but I would never say it, because I'll be like, look, I want this to be believable, I want this to be authentic. I don't want you to just read me the words, I want you to feel them and express them. And they would say but I would never say those words. And that's such a great response. Well, no, don't judge the copy like that. Really right, you must create the scene in which you would say that, in which you would be believable, in which you would be that character that could say that I love that. That's a deeper perspective, even. Lau It's a really deep perspective and if you can shift the paradigm of your mindset for a moment, to say, I may not say that, I wouldn't say that, but if I had the right context I very well may say that, absolutely, would say that and that's a big key if I had the right context or situation Right. Anne And you have to create the right situation, create the right context for the opportunity to say those words and then it will become believable. And this bosses out there does not take a minute. I think the days of people running into their studios and doing an audition in five minutes, first of all, that should have never happened. Anyways, I feel like you've got to spend more than five minutes understanding the story of the script that you're telling. And if it's not obvious to you, right, what that story is, and if it's not given to you, most of the times it isn't I mean, sometimes it is. If you are fortunate you'll get a storyboard right, you'll get a storyboard with that, but a lot of times we don't, and specifically in any kind of long format narration, we probably don't get any kind of storyboard. So we have to figure out well, what if I'm talking about corporate responsibility? Okay, here's like one of the driest probably most people would say the driest topics around for a company Corporate responsibility. How do I tell the story of that? Well, you tell the story where you are the founder of the company and as a founder of the company, you have a product that you believe in. I mean, 10 years ago, when you formed that company, you had a belief that you had an idea and you said this is going to help people, this is going to change, this is going to change the world. And so you, on that belief, built a company from the ground up. And so you start building the character, you start building the story as to why you talk about corporate responsibility and what you're committed to as the CEO of that company. And you, in your heart, believe this. You're committed for innovative excellence. You are committed to giving back. You are committed. And so when you build that story up for something, even as most people will say it's dry, I say what an amazing acting challenge. It is right To figure out how, in a corporate narration that you think is dry and just providing information to people so that investors will continue to give you money for the company. No, it's not even about that. It's about you as the founder of the company and how you had a vision and you had a belief. You had an idea and that grew. And notice how like I'm even getting passionate when I talk to you about it and when we talk about passion Lau this is the other angle that I wanted to talk about. Passion doesn't mean over the top dramatics. Passion just means an invested interest and a sincere, I would say, commitment to the idea. I like to expand on that because sometimes people think passion means over the top, you know, and what'll happen in their performances is it will be over dramatic and it will not be believable. Lau Absolutely. And this is exactly why when a student comes to you and client comes to me and says, hey, should I take an acting class, should I take an improv class, I say yes, you have to because you need someone putting you on the spot. Yeah, I'm saying a lot, saying, okay, you're an executive manager, go, you're this, go, you're this. Go and be able to create instantaneously exactly the context, exactly the scenario you need to create, so that you would say those words, yeah. And I would even say everyone should be paying attention to the grandmother of improvisation. Really, the creator of improvisation was Viola Spolen. And reading her books because she was watching children. So she got all of her improv exercises from watching little kids, and little kids don't take any time at all. They can create anything they want and be anyone they want in a moment's notice, without second guessing it. And so I feel like, as talent, that's where we need to be. We need to say anything's possible, everything's possible, like re-envision, your possible. Don't say, but it's improbable, but it's not really. Don't give yourself excuses like don't let yourself off the hook. Say, no, it is possible, is it probable? I don't know, probably not but, it's possible yeah, yeah and that's the most important thing for your brain and your imagination to engage absolutely the possibilities. Yeah right, I mean that's like one of the most important things we can do as artists is like the writer of Alice in Wonderland that mad Hatter said I think up, I dream up 12 impossible things before breakfast. You know what I mean. Like, allow yourself to think about the impossible as something that could really happen to you and with you, so that you can go down that road and you cAnneot second guess your copy as much yeah, yeah, yeah. Anne Well, you know, I love that because now you're helping even me to get even more in depth with my students by saying, like it is possible. And it's funny because sometimes I will say, no, you really need to create the scene, and they'll get so frustrated that they can't think of what's possible or what could possibly happen and I'll give them okay, maybe this is the scenario, maybe this is the scenario. And I don't always know the scenario myself. I mean, I have to imagine it myself, right, and so it will take some time to put together that scenario, and so I don't want bosses to get frustrated if you spend five, ten, fifteen minutes trying to figure out what that logical scenario is, and also not just at the beginning, because a lot of times they'll say, okay, I've got it, I've got it, I've got the scene, but what has happened is they haven't read three quarters of the way down the copy to understand. Well, okay, but that doesn't make sense. Now, right, if you are who you say you are and you're talking to who you say you are, it doesn't make sense that three quarters the way down the script that you're gonna say this, right, so either your scene changed or the person you're talking to changed, or the concept of what you're talking about is not what you thought it was, and so now you've got to delve even deeper into it. And so I find that students get so frustrated it's almost like they get angry at me. When I ask them, I'll be okay. So what's your moment before? And they won't know. And then it'll be like, well, okay, it's this, and I'm like okay, but three quarters the way down the script, it says this so that doesn't make sense. So how is it going to make sense to you? Three quarters the way down the script, right? How are you gonna maintain that believability? Will the scene change? Will you get up and move and go somewhere else? Will you be talking to someone else? Or maybe you'll be transported in another place at this point in time? Either way, whatever it happens, you have to make that decision and commit to it, and then you will sound believable now. Lau So it's really interesting about what you're asking them to do, which is quite maddening. But you're asking them to be a mathematician. You're asking them to think like a chess player. Anne You're asking them to dive deep dive, be lazy. Lau Don't be lazy and chill, back and go. I get the answer no. When I see an actor do that, gone are the days where he used to sit in a waiting room and, you know, wait for auditions to come through. The second I saw an actor whether they were vocal on camera, on a microphone goat yeah, I'm all set. I got it. I knew they weren't gonna get the job. Yeah, I know. Yeah oh yeah, because they weren't talented. Oftentimes they were fabulous, it's just they were not willing to dive deeper to say where do I go from here? where does the tilt happen? Is there a shift? Is there a surprising moment? Anne and there should be right, I mean typically there is in a script, typically there is a script right, there should be there certainly is in life, unless there's a partial script right, but I'm gonna say that most copywriters. There's a rhyme and a reason to copy being written for a company. For the most part, I'm gonna say, right, a company writes copy to ultimately sell something along the line, their brand, a product, a service, whatever that is. They're selling people on a brand. So ultimately there's that goal at the very tail end of it all. If it comes from a company, if it's a script that's not coming from a company, that's talking about a product or a service, it could be, you know, a dialogue or an animation script or an audiobook, and those typically have stories in mind. And I'm gonna say that, because they're written with stories in mind, sometimes it's easier for people to imagine a scene, right? Or if it's written in the first person format, it's easy to kind of imagine a scene and imagine that you're talking to someone else, because you're kind of seeing the dialogue play out in front of you. It's when the scripts are not written necessarily in a storyline format or with an intended story. It's more or less going to be something else that might be anthemic or a little more ethereal, right, and then you're like I have no idea what these words are even talking about. That's where you've really got to engage, I think your imagination and really do some research. Oh, no question about it. Lau I mean actors should be spending half their day doing research. No, when we talk about analysis, we really mean analysis. Like you better have a lexicon ready. Whether you're doing a commercial or you're doing narration, you're doing right audiobook. You have to have not just your transcriptions and your interpretation as an actor, but you have to really know, like, what are the basic concepts of what a writer and an actor think about? I got to know what the plot line is. Is there an arc in this story? Anne where's the epiphany in here right. I call it the crescendo like, or the call the the crescendo or the call to action or the turn point. Right, there's usually something in a story and it may not be obvious, it may not be obvious at all. Right, it might just be like, hey, we have a great product, we have a great product, we have a great product, bye, you know. And then at the end, so like, where's that crescendo? Is there a crescendo? Well, at that point you start making choices right. Typically, I would say there's one point that you want to really call people's attention to. You can create your crescendo. Do some research, find out if it makes sense that the company's underlying message would be this particular one, because a lot of times when you talk about selling products with commercials, there's a lot of features, feature one, feature two, feature three and then come on down and buy. So how do you make that acting decision about where's there a call to action? They all seem like calls to action, and so how do you make one more important than the other? And how do you make that decision? And how do you know and a lot of times you don't A lot of times, as an actor, you have to make an educated and committed guess right as to where that story point is, and I would say that the more that you research, all that you can, the clues from the copy right, there's clues in the copy. The more you can research the clues in the copy, I think, the easier it's going to be to get an answer. And again, a lot of times, when you've come up with your final audition, the casting director, I mean it could be a completely different story than what's really taking place, but the fact is is that you, as an actor, will be committed to that performance and I believe in my heart that within the first two or three words, we can tell and that is what's going to get you the job. Lau That's right. And now we know we've solved the mystery why actors are such excellent, excellent salespeople. It's the same training, the same training. Excellent actors are excellent storytellers are excellent in sales because we're telling a story but we're also creating very deep, strong relationships that are multi-dimensional and very nuanced and very long-term, whether it's with our client or a company or a colleague. It's very, very deep. There's different layers to it and it takes time Sometimes it takes a lifetime to figure out all the layers to it. I can't say, oh, I know Anne. Okay, yeah, I got her. Yeah, I know her. No, you can't do that because you have to let it unfold, like a story unfolds over time. Anne The onion layers. You have to feeling aware of the onion. Yes, yes. Lau You gotta make new discoveries all the time. If you're not willing to be the archeologist in your own career and you're not gonna dig deep, then you're always gonna be superficial in your work. Anne Sure, absolutely so, La, would you say, because you've got a lot of commercial auditions that come across your desk and you send out a lot as an agent. What would you say Is there a particular timeframe that people should spend on a particular audition, Like, should they spend at least 10 minutes, 15 minutes, half an hour? Do you have an average time or no? Lau I really don't. I just don't. I feel like your profession, your trade, is a personal journey and I really feel like some people have a quick knack to pick something up because they've trained their brain in such a way that they know what cues to look for, so they're able to pick it up and they're able to really do something. Other times we need to sit with it longer. I need the extra hour or two and I need to process it and I need to make some deeper dive choices. So I think it's personal, I think it's professional as well, like based on your training and your history, and I think, like how focused you are, the focus factor has to be there, yeah yeah, I think focus has to be there first and foremost. Anne Like I always tell people, like long format narration is exhausting, because I'm like look, you think commercial is exhausting. You've got to maintain people's attention for 30 to 60 seconds. Now try something that's three or four minutes long, right? So where are you in the scene at two minutes and 56 seconds? Where are you? And what's happening? Joe? Who you're talking to, what's going on with him? Right, you need to tell me. A lot of times I'll be like I'll stop somebody in the middle of the read and I'll say where are you, where's the scene, what's going on? And if they cAnneot tell me, I'll be like, okay, you need to create that scene because you're starting to lose your believability, you're starting to lose your authenticity, and that is just something. When we end up going into automatic mode, we just start. That's cool. I like that exercise. Great, that's good. Lau I also would be remiss to say that if you don't come in, some of the best actors I know are extremely bold, very courageous, sometimes arrogant, sometimes they go over the edge to arrogance, but they own the room, they own the space, they own the mic, they own it all and they don't apologize for any of it. And oftentimes they may Anneoy you as a person, but the stuff they come out with is like probably it, oh, wow, brilliance. Like they do not apologize or take it back or worry for one second. What they did was not precise and perfect, and I think that that's a skill. I think that's a skill to create and then go off and say, wow, did I do the right thing? Can I try something new? Can I learn something new? But when you're in the room, when you're in the space, when you're auditioning or when you're booking the gig, whatever, just own it. Command, presence, Cause I think through the command comes the authority, the credibility, the ethos that we need as actors to take stage. Anne We need that, well, and I think it showcases something to the person listening, right, when you have that confidence and the authority that there is a story there. There is a story that you're telling, that you are committed to, and we don't quite know what that might be, but we're interested, right, and that is really what most people are after. Right, we want to make sure that we get people's attention while we're embedded in that copy. So, and listen. Lau Acting at the end of the day is about personality. It's like ability, it's magnetism. It isn't only the script or the writer, the producer, the vocal actor comes in and it's your presence, it's your energy. It's your enthusiasm. Anne I tell so many of my students that, really, what is it that connects us right when I listen to you or when I meet you, what is it that is connecting us as humans together? A lot of times, it is about your personality and somebody will say to me well, do I have the voice, do I have what it takes to be a voice actor? And I said, well, you've got a beautiful personality. I want you to bring that to the read. I want you to bring the pieces of you that will help me to connect and engage human to human. I mean, maybe you don't have to be nice during the script, but it really depends on the context, right, but I need to have that piece of you that comes through, because that's where I'm connecting, right, that's where I'm connecting. Wow, good stuff. Lau, it's all of that and more. It is all that and more. So, yes, bosses, you need to be actors. Go take an acting class, get coaching, make sure that you are acting between the periods. I always say acting between the periods, acting between the sentence lines, acting from the beginning to the very end. Lau So, Anne, in that note. Alas, poor Anne, we are finished, we shall. Anne Exhunt. Oh guys, you know what? I'll tell you what. What a great episode. Thank you, Lau. Oh, my pleasure. Lau It was awesome. Anne Bosses, do you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart and ever wish that you could do more to help them? Well, you certainly can visit 100voiceswhocareorg to commit and find out more. And, of course, big kudos to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect in network like bosses. Find out more at ipdtlcom. You guys, we love you. Go be actors and we'll see you next week. Bye, bye, guys. Outro Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. Anne Or the worst is when they're like, okay, you do the take and they say nothing, right, so it's like you do the 50 a take. Let's do that. That's what it looks like. The 50 a take they're like okay, okay, all right, thank you, we'll be in touch.

Anne is joined by special guest Gillian Pelkonen to pull back the curtain on what it's like to be women in male-dominated industries. They candidly share their experiences, from the challenges and microaggressions they faced, to the emotional weight of feeling valued for their gender over their skills. But it's not all about the struggle. They also highlight the power of a strong support network and share inspiring stories of women who have stood tall in the face of adversity. Drawing from Gillian's unique insights in the music industry and Anne's working in tech, this episode is a deep dive into resilience, recognition, and the pursuit of equality. Tune in and join the conversation. Transcript Anne Ganguzza: Hey everyone, welcome to the V.O. Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Genguza, and today I am excited to bring back special guest, audio engineer, musician, and all around tech guru, Gillian Pelkonen to the podcast. Yay, Gillian: Hello, Anne Ganguzza: Gillian! Gillian: Hi. Like so excited to talk and I feel like it's been forever since we got on and got to chat. Anne Ganguzza: I know, I know. And I am so glad to have you here today. And you know, after introducing you as, because every time I talk with you, I experience something new that you know. Gillian: I'm sorry. Anne Ganguzza: And just, it's just, you're just, you're amazing, Gillian, if I'm just gonna say Gillian: Oh, Anne Ganguzza: that, you're amazing. Gillian: thank you. Anne Ganguzza: And I was thinking about this today. I was thinking about this today. I want to talk to you because I feel like you and I are, females in male-dominated fields. Because before I got into voiceover and demo production, I worked as a design engineer. And Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: then after that, I was in technology. And so I've always been working in male-dominated fields. And you, of course, being in the music industry and audio engineer, I think we've probably got a few similar experiences. And I think I'd love to talk to you about that. Gillian: Yeah, I would love to talk to you as well because I mean, I've only been working for a couple years. I know that you're probably been working for a while and so obviously I'd love to talk to you because Thankfully, I think we have similar but different experiences because all of the work that you've done throughout your life has made my life easier and the trickle down and I just love talking to women mostly because I never see women every time I see a woman I'm like, oh my gosh could I hunkie you? Like Anne Ganguzza: Ha Gillian: I Anne Ganguzza: ha Gillian: never Anne Ganguzza: ha! Gillian: just men all the time or like a woman Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: non-binary person whatever because it's really is true. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: There's um some statistics I was reading There's a really good article and research that was done I don't remember who but maybe I I'll put it in the show notes, that between producers and audio engineers, women make up 3% and they group producers and audio engineers Anne Ganguzza: Wow. Gillian: together within the music industry. Anne Ganguzza: Wow, Gillian: Is that crazy? Anne Ganguzza: that's so small. Gillian: I Anne Ganguzza: That Gillian: know. Anne Ganguzza: is crazy. Gillian: I know. Anne Ganguzza: And I know so many talented females. And Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I just know, I mean, look, I'm going to be honest with you. When people ask me about my career trajectory, I talk about when I went to college. And I've always been interested in technical and geeky things. I did pretty well in school and so I was encouraged to go into engineering. Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I went to college and studied mechanical engineering and actually was like one of three females in the entire class that was studying engineering. I Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: grew up in a very small town and so I thought I would always talk about my geeky interests and the fact that I was the only girl that was in wood shop or those things. I always thought, well, it's because I come from a small town. But then when I went to college, and I was in a bigger population, I thought to myself, wow, I really kind of am in a smaller minority Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: in my engineering class because again, there's like three of us. And as a matter of fact, only one ended up graduating the program. I actually transferred into another engineering program and Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: graduated with a degree in computer graphics engineering. So when I got out of school, got a job as a design engineer for an orthopedic company. And thus began my corporate experience of being a female in probably a predominantly male-oriented field. And it was tough. It was really tough because there's, first of all, you don't have a lot of other females to, I guess, bond with about your job. And so. The few that are there, it seemed were, how do I put it, we're all very protective and all very, I think because people who have already been in that situation, I think protective of, protective of your job, protective of maybe your skill set in a way Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: because it was either being, I don't know. challenged Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: or being, yeah, I'm going to say challenged for lack Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: of a better word, but being challenged. And so it was really hard for me to find my footing. And, Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: you know, after that, you know, again, without going through my entire history, I worked in technology. I got out of engineering. Being an engineer in the late 80s was tough. And Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I'm not, you know, I constantly say that I'm not bitter. And I really Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: wasn't because I was young and I was excited and I loved what I did. And I felt like the fact that I was kind of a smaller minority in the engineering group made me better at what I Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: did because I think I had to work harder and we can talk about that with you. I think working hard is kind of like, I've always been used to working hard anyways, Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: but sometimes I feel like I might have to work. triple hard to get Gillian: And you Anne Ganguzza: maybe Gillian: definitely Anne Ganguzza: the same recognition. Gillian: did. It's like totally Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Gillian: not unreasonable to say that you would have had to, just to be taken as seriously as everybody Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Gillian: else. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Gillian: It's Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Gillian: such a Anne Ganguzza: You know, Gillian: crazy Anne Ganguzza: and after that, Gillian: story, yeah. Anne Ganguzza: yeah, and then after that, I spent 20 years in technology, which again was another male-dominated field. And so I was constantly being passed by to my male peers because they thought that they were in charge. Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And so, again, you know, it was just one of those things where I literally... worked my tushy off. And I feel not quite as much, but I also feel like in the voiceover industry, to be a demo producer, a female demo producer, is there's not a lot of them out there. Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And again, I feel like it's something that I feel like I work very hard at and very proud at it. And I'm very proud of being a demo producer. I love what I do. But let's talk about you. I mean, my goodness. Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I mean, first of all, being as young as you are and as successful as you are, but I know that you must have gone through a lot of the same experiences as I did in the music industry and Gillian: I have Anne Ganguzza: in engineering. Gillian: to say, I'm still going through it, and unfortunately, I hope not, but I assume I'll be going through it for the rest of my life, and really from talking with other women of various ages. And I really do look up to a lot of other older women because Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: they've gone through it and they can really mentor me. And I feel like between... the no matter what age you are, I just find so much camaraderie and people who really want to mentor me and help me. But the one thing I can say about my experience is that I never feel physically unsafe, which I know was not the case Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: for many people, which is a really scary thing to think about. And I always try to acknowledge that like I have these struggles and I want to talk about my experiences, but the fact that like I go into work and I don't feel physically unsafe is really cool. And it's an insane sentence to have to say, but I know from other people's experiences. things used to be a lot more outright and a lot more pointed and really Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Gillian: mean and the whole point was to be like this is our space and we don't want you here and so we're gonna try to make it difficult for you to stay here. I don't know if that was your experience Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Gillian: but I've heard that that's kind of like Anne Ganguzza: You Gillian: what Anne Ganguzza: know, Gillian: happened. Anne Ganguzza: very interesting. Very interesting. I never had anybody, like, I never, nobody said that directly. However, Gillian: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: I mean, now we're talking another area where there were other ways to try to intimidate Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: me as a female, which lean, you know, toward a me too kind of a thing, Gillian: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: where, you know, people are trying to show their power. in Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: multiple ways. And I think as a female in a male-dominated field, if you have those types of issues that happen, Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: they're tough to navigate. Because again, if a woman is seen complaining, or, you know, and that's the thing. I think we were taught for so long to just maybe not say anything because Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: we would be judged. Gillian: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: as bitter as, you know, it just, it's, that's, you know, we could, God, we could have a hundred podcast episodes on that. And, and Gillian: I know Anne Ganguzza: I think that Gillian: there's so Anne Ganguzza: over Gillian: many Anne Ganguzza: the Gillian: things. Anne Ganguzza: years, right? I mean, over the years, there's really just so many different intimidation tactics Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: that are different in, from male to female. Gillian: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: or Gillian: And Anne Ganguzza: really Gillian: I... Anne Ganguzza: just anybody that's trying to get, and I don't even wanna say male, female, but because it could be non-binary, it could be Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: transgender, it could be a lot of different genders Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: that experience the same thing in a lot of Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: ways. Gillian: Yeah, and I Anne Ganguzza: And Gillian: heard Anne Ganguzza: I Gillian: this Anne Ganguzza: just... Gillian: uh... The tricky guy. Anne Ganguzza: Oh no, that's fine, Gillian: Okay. Anne Ganguzza: please. Gillian: Yeah, I Anne Ganguzza: Continue. Gillian: heard this amazing thing on a podcast that I listened to because just for concision, to be concise. I'm gonna just say, you know, man, woman, but I did hear this amazing thing where Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: someone who was having a similar conversation was like, when I say woman, I mean someone who is not male, who is like within the minority. So women, when Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: I'm saying it, I'm sure Anne Ganguzza: Okay. Gillian: when we're talking about it, encompasses like transgender people, non-binary, and I know that that's not Anne Ganguzza: Yes, Gillian: their proper Anne Ganguzza: yes. Gillian: gender identity, but like in the discussion of like male, which is the default of women which is like basically could be used to talk about all those other people so I mean that's Anne Ganguzza: Yes, Gillian: I thought Anne Ganguzza: yes, Gillian: that Anne Ganguzza: no, Gillian: was cool Anne Ganguzza: thank Gillian: that Anne Ganguzza: you Gillian: someone Anne Ganguzza: for clarifying Gillian: said that Anne Ganguzza: that. I Gillian: yeah Anne Ganguzza: thought that Gillian: but Anne Ganguzza: was the one. Yeah, Gillian: I'm Anne Ganguzza: yeah, Gillian: just Anne Ganguzza: no, Gillian: my Anne Ganguzza: absolutely, Gillian: experience Anne Ganguzza: and I'm glad that... Gillian: as a woman that that's how I'm gonna talk about it because that's how I feel Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: about myself but there's also whether or not like you're Non-binary, if you are in a female presenting body, you do carry the weight of Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: being treated like a woman, which I know is another thing that Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Gillian: people who don't have that gender identity but get grouped in with women and have that female experience. Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Gillian: It's such a complicated issue because really we're talking about how other people perceive us, not really how we perceive ourselves in any which way. Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely. Gillian: Or that's what I found. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Gillian: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: no, I love that. You're right. It is about how people perceive us Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: as opposed to how we perceive ourselves. And wow, that was just, all right, we can go home now because that was Gillian: Ha Anne Ganguzza: just Gillian: ha Anne Ganguzza: really Gillian: ha! Anne Ganguzza: an amazing perceptive. That was so amazing Gillian: Hehehe Anne Ganguzza: and perceptive. I love that. And so, I guess, talk to me Gillian: I Anne Ganguzza: a Gillian: kind Anne Ganguzza: little Gillian: of, Anne Ganguzza: bit Gillian: yeah, Anne Ganguzza: about Gillian: I never talked about Anne Ganguzza: maybe... Gillian: what Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, I gotta Gillian: I, Anne Ganguzza: talk Gillian: I just keep Anne Ganguzza: to Gillian: making Anne Ganguzza: them. Gillian: all Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: these like blanket statements, but I should, I'll talk about my specific experience. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Gillian: briefly, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: the whole reason that I got into doing what I do now, which is for the most part audio engineering, assistant engineering, freelancing, which I do as a pretty solitary activity, so it's not like there's anything going on there. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: But I was working in studios as an artist. I was recording. And I was being paired with a lot of male engineers. And I actually had, in all of college, all the engineers Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Gillian: I worked with, I had very positive experiences. one engineer who was a woman and I was I just connected with her so well it was such a great working relationship and Realistically, I just wanted more control and knowledge about what I was doing because I love to learn about what I'm interested in. But it was in the front of my mind that there's now a lot of women. I've been doing this for four years and I've been paired with all these men and only one woman and it was my best experience. Like what if I could do that? I feel like I can communicate with people well. All of these things that I think sometimes is lacking in men, which is a complete generalization when I say it and what I was thinking because I was 20 years old. at the time and I also thought well there's not that many women so it'll be a great thing for me to try because there's not many people like me. Sorry Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: my cat's acting up. Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely. Gillian: And so Anne Ganguzza: Oh, Gillian: I thought about that not... Anne Ganguzza: I understand that. Gillian: right? Not taking into account Anne Ganguzza: Yes, Gillian: that Anne Ganguzza: I do. Gillian: when I got into this male dominated field I would actually have to do it and be surrounded by men all day and I didn't think about all of the things Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Gillian: that would come into play like not being taken as seriously because of my gender or... you know, all of the like microaggressions Anne Ganguzza: Mmm Gillian: that people say. I just, and also like a weird thing that I still encounter and I'm still dealing with is what I've experienced is by being a woman in a male-dominated field, it's really easy to get your foot in the door, but once you're in the door, that's where like all the complication starts happening, Anne Ganguzza: Ugh. Mm-hmm. Gillian: which is crazy. And then there's this whole personal thing that I am still dealing with, which is when I'm working with other women, or if they're, I mean I love when there's another woman in the studio. It is so great, but I do have this weird feeling of, well, I'm only here because I'm a woman. And if there's another woman, then my special thing is no longer special. And the way I'm treated is it makes me think of myself as only my gender, and sometimes I have to step back and be like, you have to be... confident that you're more than just that, even though all day I'm treated like that's all I am. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: So, I don't know, that's my experience. Those are some things on my mind when I talk about it and how I got here and I guess some of the things that I'm dealing with at the moment within myself. Anne Ganguzza: Well, I'll tell you what you said about, you know, maybe it made getting in the door a little bit easier. I actually had that perception myself, you know, to Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: get in the door because, you know, employers want to feel like they're, you know, they're treating people fairly and so they need representation. But then you have Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: perception once you're there, right? I always feel like, okay, I got myself here in this position. Now I have to prove that I'm worthy. Right? And I feel like, okay, that's something that maybe, I mean, other people, do they feel the same? Do they have to prove that they're worthy of the position? Because there is perception that, you know what, oh, she's here because she's a, you know, she's a female. You know, I had that at my other job where people were like, well, they want a female in tech as a good role model. right, Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: for, you know, when I worked in the school, right? They want a female because she's a good role model for the kids now, and that's why she got the job. I'm like, but no, really, once I open my mouth, you'll probably hear why I got the job, because I can back it up, right, Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: with intelligence, and I can back it up with knowledge of the job, of which I do. Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And, you know, it did get to be tiring. you know, to constantly, constantly have to prove myself. Now, I'm gonna tell you that in the majority of situations, at least in my experience, I had a boss who never, I would say, discriminated. As a matter of fact, he was very encouraging. And, but it was so many other people that I came into contact with. And we worked with different vendors. from all across the world, really, who I was a manager. And constantly I would be meeting these people in person that would come into the facility and just pass me by or ask me, like literally ask me if I could get them a coffee. And that was just, I mean, that was just one of those things. And I've got, yeah, no. Gillian: I get this like Anne Ganguzza: Or Gillian: anger inside Anne Ganguzza: ask me Gillian: me Anne Ganguzza: to be Gillian: hearing Anne Ganguzza: a secretary. Gillian: this. Anne Ganguzza: Well, see what that, I would always be asked, by the way, to volunteer on boards, you know, and of course, there's a thing, like in the corporate world, it was, and I don't know if it's still a thing, but it used to be a thing where if you were on the board, you know, it was a nice asset on your resume. And so people would always ask me to be, well, the president, the vice president, no, they'd say, will you be the secretary? And I'm like, No, I don't take notes. I don't, I don't, you know what I mean? It was just, it came back to that whole like, well, she's female and she's blonde, so she must be the secretary and she must, she'll take the good notes. And I'm like, no, I'm actually really bad at that. Ha ha Gillian: It's... Anne Ganguzza: ha. Gillian: yeah, it's insane. The assumptions that we make about people and like, oh, you're not being good at taking notes. You're like a bad woman. Because if you're Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Gillian: a woman, you know how Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Gillian: to make the coffee and take the notes. I get, it's so funny, because nobody will ask you to be a secretary anymore, but they'll like... ask me to do stuff and when I break down what it is it's like secretary oh you should just email the people you're really good at that Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Gillian: you should just talk to people on the phone you're really good at Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: that and i'm like how would you know i'm good at that i've never done it i mean i would be Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Gillian: because i'm good at a lot Anne Ganguzza: exactly. Gillian: of things but it's so crazy and honestly i know you were saying earlier about being bitter and it's like i'm not bitter i'm angry. Like I get so angry, the stuff that people say, and especially I get mad about myself, but I get mad about other people too, because it's the fact that we have to go through this. And sometimes I think to myself, like, how good could I be at my job if I didn't have to worry about my gender all day or be fighting these comments all day? Like Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Gillian: it's, it's so crazy the things that people have, I mean I could, I could say like the ridiculous things people have said to me. I get really frustrated. when people treat treat it like it's cute that I'm working, like it's an option, like, oh, it's Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Gillian: so cute that you're doing this or doing that. I'm learning some more technical stuff. I'm training to be a tech assistant in a studio, which would basically mean that if gear broke, I would know how to fix it. I'm helping him in the sense that if he has a piece of gear, it'll be like, oh, you do this part. Like today we built some XLR cables and Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Gillian: then we built some instrument cables and he was working on the inside of a piece of gear. So he was that when I need to put them back in like they're ready, stuff like that. And some guy came, some guy I'd never met before came in and saw that I was I was soldering and I was building this cable and he was like, oh do you have a license to do that? And the tech Anne Ganguzza: My God! Gillian: technician was like, I don't have a license to do this, like what are you talking about? Like it was just... I'm like, just because I'm doing something you perceive I shouldn't be doing, you're gonna like, make a comment about Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Gillian: it? So Anne Ganguzza: Now, Gillian: weird. Anne Ganguzza: let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Do you think age has anything to do with it? I mean, was it an older person, or was it a younger Gillian: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: person? Do you find that you Gillian: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: get flack from both younger Gillian: I do think...yeah, Anne Ganguzza: and maybe all ages? Gillian: I find that older people have older views, like, or more... archaic is such a bad word, but like, archaic views of like, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Gillian: this is what a woman should do. I mean, I've had... Yeah, especially I think yes. The answer is yes. When I work with people who are who are older I do find That they're less open-minded to anybody of any Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Gillian: gender Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: identity doing things Which I do understand to some extent because their world Was that way and it's just not that way anymore so I sometimes with I don't know I try to have more patience Anne Ganguzza: Well Gillian: with Anne Ganguzza: then, Gillian: people like Anne Ganguzza: then Gillian: that, Anne Ganguzza: you might Gillian: but Anne Ganguzza: have, yeah, I was gonna say then it might be a combination of, is it because you're female or is it because you're young? Gillian: Oh yeah, Anne Ganguzza: There's Gillian: for Anne Ganguzza: that Gillian: me. Anne Ganguzza: as well, you know? Mm-hmm, Gillian: I Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Gillian: find it's like a double whammy of terrible. It's like, well, you're young and experienced. But I do, whenever Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Gillian: I'm doubting myself, and if there's anyone out there who's listening to this and is doubting themselves, I always ask, would the same question be asked or be appropriate to be asked to a male coworker? Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: And that always answers my question. Anne Ganguzza: Now, I think, mm-hmm. Now, you know, it's so interesting because here we are doing a podcast and we're talking about our experiences about being in a male-dominated field and what has happened to us. And yet, I feel like I have to explain to the audience right now that, you know, I'm not bitter. Uh... I really don't feel better. I mean, there's, so there are things that I feel are maybe not just, and I've, you know, I feel like I've lived my life long enough to understand that, okay, there are things that are not just in this world Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: and, you know, I have to kind of suck it up, buttercup, and, you know, and deal with it. I will say. And I don't want to apologize or say to the bosses out there that I'm sorry for this conversation or feel like Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I need to tread lightly. But I will say that some of the positives that have come out of, I guess, maybe not being treated as fair as we would like is that I worked harder, and because I worked harder, I got better. And Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I'm proud of that. I don't feel like maybe I shouldn't have had to work so hard, but I do feel proud of the fact that I am capable and very competent Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: at what I do. And I think that that's been a positive that's happened. And I do believe that over the years, I feel that women have been speaking up more. And I feel like that's a good thing because it needs to be something, it needs to be talked about. It just needs to be talked about. Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And I think the more we talk about things, and this is in any situation, right? I mean, I just feel that if the conversations are open and they've begun, then we can start to heal and move forward and have progress. Gillian: Yeah, and I think I agree that there have been a lot of things in my life that I've had to work harder than I should have or something happened and I had to do something at someone else who with a different experience may not have that has made me the person I am, but I do wish that things were different because I'm sure even without having to work harder Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: you were very good at your job. And I feel like I'm... Anne Ganguzza: Mm-mm. Yeah. Gillian: I'm doing what I'm doing Anne Ganguzza: You Gillian: and Anne Ganguzza: were Gillian: you Anne Ganguzza: too. Gillian: did Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: what you're doing and hopefully throughout your lifetime and my lifetime we just keep pushing the needle. I do really like talking about it because I like listening to people talk about it. It's so cathartic to not be Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Gillian: gaslit into thinking that, oh maybe it Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Gillian: really is just because I'm not good at my job. I'm not capable. I deserve to be, you know, passed over for promotions or not being taken seriously or not being asked Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Gillian: to be the VP on the committee or whatever Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Gillian: it was. Like maybe I am only the secretary and I just don't think that that's true. Anne Ganguzza: Well, yeah, and I think it's such a valid point that you bring up that we question ourselves. Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And as long as I've been in industries, and as long as I've been alive and working hard and feeling like I got great at what I did or am becoming a better person and being better at it, I also still question myself. And I still self-sabotage myself once in a while, and I know better. And Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I think it's something that's very real for Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I think a lot of women. Gillian: Mm. Anne Ganguzza: Gosh, you know, I totally get that. I mean, Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I get it, I understand it. And so what do you do, you know, what do you do, Gillian, to, I don't know, bring yourself out of that? Because it's so easy to talk yourself into, you know, that kind of a funk where you're like, oh, you know, maybe I don't deserve this job, or maybe, you know, these people are better than me. Gillian: I honestly, I don't know what I mean. What do I do? I mean, I haven't stopped doing what I'm doing yet, which is just continuing Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Gillian: to show Anne Ganguzza: yeah, Gillian: up. Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Gillian: I think because I love what I do. For me, feeling like I'm not good enough, that makes me want to show up more, which is kind of like what you said, you've worked harder. Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Mm-hmm. Gillian: And really the reason that I don't give up first, I mean... I really think it's because I do love what I do and because of the people that I've spoken to and knowing that as hard as I perceive that I have it, it has been harder. And hopefully, I just keep working to hope that 10 years from now I'll meet someone who's telling me about their problems and I'll be relieved that they're not the problems that I had. And knowing that by sh- Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: basically, I kinda said this earlier, but whether it's intentional or subconscious or unintentional, for minority groups in a work setting is to push them out. And I'm kind of determined not to be pushed out. And so I guess that's really like Anne Ganguzza: Mm, mm-hmm. Gillian: the motivating factor is to just be Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Gillian: like, you can bully me, but like you can't bully me out of my job because I wanna be one day someone who is higher up who can have a diverse group of people and a diverse group of voices in the room, whether or not the people who are currently in the room Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Gillian: want to see that day. So I don't know, Anne Ganguzza: And Gillian: what is it for you? Anne Ganguzza: I'll tell you, you know, it's, well, I think talking to people helped me, you know, other people. that are in similar kind of situations. Like talking to you actually is helpful. And just knowing that you're not fighting it alone, I think that's number one. And I look to people that I see as examples. I mean, I had a wonderful representative that I worked with a long time ago who was in the middle of transitioning to a woman. And... And she held a very high ranking position in the company that Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I was dealing with. And she was just the bravest soul, Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: because it was about 20 years ago, if not longer. Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And she refused to quit Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: her job. And I know that it could not have been easy for her. And Gillian: I don't Anne Ganguzza: so Gillian: think it's easy Anne Ganguzza: I constantly Gillian: now. Anne Ganguzza: thought that Gillian: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: she Yeah, and I don't think it's easy, but I constantly think about that. And I just say, you know what, I think if she could do it, if she could have the courage to kind of stick it out and Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: just stand up for what is right and what is just, because she was excellent at her job, Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: and did not be pushed out by the... And it was a very large company that was kind of... That could have had that mentality that Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: a little bit more old school. Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I'm quite sure 20 years ago, it was not something that people did every day. Gillian: No, Anne Ganguzza: It just wasn't. Gillian: yeah. Anne Ganguzza: It was a different time then. And I'm thankful that we have people out there today that are defiant and Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: willing to stand up for who they are and willing to, I guess, fight or defend what they do. Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: in the environment that they do because they're good at it and for no other reason right that they are doing what they do And they don't have to necessarily prove to anyone That they you know can do the job Gillian: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a big burden that gets put on us for to just, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Gillian: you know, be doing that. But yeah, oh, I had a train of thought and then I lost it because I was into what you were saying. But even like the VioBoss podcast, so many women on this podcast and so many voices that get to be heard, which Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Gillian: is like so amazing. I mean, you're still doing the work and all of the stuff. And like, I always Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Gillian: like when I see women who did it, like my mom did it. She worked on Wall Street in a time that like... when Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Gillian: there weren't many women doing it. And I always want to be like, thank you for your service, because it literally is because it's so difficult to like endure it. And everyone has their different coping Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Gillian: mechanisms and everyone does it in a different way. And we were talking about this before we went on air, but like everybody. hates women, like men hate women and women are taught to hate each other and I feel like there's a lot of stuff Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Gillian: of like, you're not doing it right or like you're acting a certain way and it's like we're all just trying to get through it and the more that we can realize that like we Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Gillian: do have each other, we don't need to fight each other, we can actually like be stronger as a group, then that'd be great if we did that more often. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. I mean, I love that sentiment. But you're right. I mean, you know, I feel like sometimes even from women, it's hard, you know, because there's so many different preconceived notions about what women, you know, what they should be doing, if they're Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: capable of, you know, what, you know, should. I mean, gosh, I feel like we're going backwards in time. I mean, well, that's a whole nother podcast, but Gillian: Hahaha! Anne Ganguzza: politically, I mean, we're talking about, you know, you know, just rights, human rights, basic human Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: rights. And, you know, I think, again, I love the fact that we are opening a dialogue here. And Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I'll tell you what, I mean, we could probably do five or six more podcasts, if not 105. But Gillian: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: I do want to say I really appreciate, really appreciate your input. And I'm glad that you were open to discussing this with me, because I think it took courage. It took courage to do that. And so, yes, I love that. And bosses out there, we'd love to hear from you, love to hear Gillian: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: what your thoughts are. And just I think if we can all just... Do what we do best and be confident in that and not have to worry about gender playing any type of a role in it. I think it would just be a better world. Gillian: Yeah. And thank you for using this podcast and this platform to talk about this because clearly without talking about it in the choices, you are talking about it, but it is really good to talk about it. And I'd love to Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Gillian: continue the conversation, involve more people, more bosses, more hosts just to talk about our experience because Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Gillian: it makes us feel less alone. And bosses, when you're out Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely. Gillian: there working your little butts off, we see you. And if it's Anne Ganguzza: Hehehehehehe Gillian: hard, you have two friends who are- cheering for you. Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Oh my God, what a wonderful, beautiful way to end that. Thank you, Gillian, so much. Bosses, I am going to ask you if you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart, if you're wishing that you can do more to help them, you certainly can. Visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn how. And a big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses and find out more at IPDTL.com. Guys, have an amazing week. and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much. Bye.

What fuels your entrepreneurial spirit? The key lies in having a robust support system. This week, Anne & Lau talk about the indispensable role of support in the journey of entrepreneurship. They explore how the encouragement from our loved ones serves as a pillar of strength during challenging times, and discuss ways to navigate situations where support is shaky or absent. They also dive into the essence of financial independence and the peace it can infuse into relationships. Unraveling the secret to keeping your business finances organized and the wonders of a dedicated workspace, they guide you on a path of entrepreneurial success. Entrepreneurship can often feel like a lonely journey, but remember Bosses, you're not alone! Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne Ganguzza: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Gangusa, and I am here with the one and only, most beautiful, Lau Lapides. Lau Lapides: Oh, thank you Anne. Hey Anne Ganguzza: Hey, Lau. Lau Lapides: everyone. Wonderful to see ya. Anne Ganguzza: Law, I've been very reflective this week. Lau Lapides: Oh, Anne Ganguzza: Yes. Lau Lapides: I love that chair. Anne Ganguzza: Very reflective because I was thinking about, oh gosh, I've just been reading. There's so much chaos out there in social media and stuff, and I was thinking to myself, I feel so lucky to have my supportive group that supports me in my business. I know that not everybody has that. Lau Lapides: Mmm. Anne Ganguzza: And I thought we should talk about your VO support group, people that support you, and especially people close to you and your family. I don't know where I would be if my husband did not support this endeavor of mine, because it really does, it really takes, I think it takes courage because... Being an entrepreneur, running your own business, it's so much different than the corporate life that I used to lead where Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: I just got paid every other week and I could depend on that paycheck. And I know that the way that this industry just kind of is up and down and crazy, it takes a lot for Lau Lapides: Yeah, yeah. Anne Ganguzza: someone to support that. Lau Lapides: And gratitude is great. And Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: we really have to have, honestly, we have to have gratitude. It's so important to just celebrate the moments that we do share with our loved ones, our family, our friends, our colleagues, our really our circle, you know, our inner circle, our Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Lau Lapides: outer circle that really helps support us. And like reflect as you said, where would we be? without these people would we be where we are? And I'm going to be even non-PC for a moment and say, where would we be without these people simply tolerating us? Like think about that. Like what person slash woman you know would even say such a thing. But the truth is it's hard. It's a hard life in a lot of ways. Anne Ganguzza: Mmm, so Lau Lapides: And Anne Ganguzza: many Lau Lapides: it's Anne Ganguzza: ways. Lau Lapides: difficult. And we show the stress of it at times. Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: We show the impatience, we show the fast moving, we show the exhaustion. And to have that group, that circle, not only support it, but tolerate it, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: when they may not be experiencing that, they may not live that kind of lifestyle, they may not even understand it, but yet they're tolerating it, they're welcoming it, and then they're building you up. That is unbelievable when you have that on your Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: side. Anne Ganguzza: yeah. And I think there's so much that as bosses, right, that we don't anticipate having to experience or know or, I guess, go through when you own your own company. There's just so many things that I think, I don't know if you can prepare yourself. Do you know what I mean? You can prepare yourself for, you know, I guess technically, right? You Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: know, oh, it takes, these are the steps that you need to, you know, create a business entity. These are the steps you need to market your business. These are the steps. So there's these technical steps that we follow, but then if things don't go the way that we hope them to go, right, Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: that can just throw a whole wrench into... the business and in your mental outlook. And that is something that I think I was unprepared for, the uncertainties of it and handling the uncertainties of that. And then of course, anybody that supports me Lau Lapides: Mmm. Anne Ganguzza: has to go through all these emotions with me. And that is asking a lot. So again, I'm very, very grateful that I do have that support. And bosses, I mean, I know this is difficult, and you may not even know, right? Down the road, what sort of things could happen that might, I don't know, change the way that your support system feels about voiceover or being a voiceover entrepreneur, and especially these days with the disruptive technologies that are out there. I can't imagine, I do know that there's a lot of people that are... uncertain about what's happening in the future. And so I think their support system is also like seeing that, reading that. How do you, what would you say for people that aren't experiencing support from their family? What can they do? Lau Lapides: Gosh, I was just about to ask you, this is the rhetorical question of the day is like, what do we do when we don't have the support or when we feel completely alone or when we have a partner or a spouse Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: or even a child or even a best friend that is sabotaging your dreams Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Lau Lapides: or Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: getting in the way, maybe they're sucking all the time. the energy from you. Maybe they're dragging you down in the Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: mud with their own problems, maybe, right? And you think, Anne Ganguzza: Yeah? Lau Lapides: wow, who is there with me to go on this journey and really help me through, support me through this? I don't really have that many Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: people to do that. And I think there are a couple things that we can do to sort of band-aid that situation. I'm not Anne Ganguzza: Mm-mm. Lau Lapides: so sure you can ever totally fix it, but the one thing I would like to suggest, and I have a few clients like this too, sneaking around the bushes so that their husband doesn't find out Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Lau Lapides: that they're spending the little bit of tertiary income on Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: on lessons. Anne Ganguzza: coaching or yeah. Lau Lapides: I say listen you know um it's easy for me to say listen just be brave and just tell them and just Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: you know stand up to it but I'm not in that relationship and Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: I don't know the the dynamics of what's going on so in essence I don't really have the right to say that one thing I can say that has worked for me in many times of my life is If there is someone that is not working out, they're not positive minded, they don't have the forward thinking, upward mobility energy Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: that Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: I crave and that I want in my connections, I simply cut them loose. Not in a bad way, Anne Ganguzza: way, Lau Lapides: not Anne Ganguzza: not Lau Lapides: in a Anne Ganguzza: in Lau Lapides: toxic Anne Ganguzza: a toxic Lau Lapides: way, Anne Ganguzza: way, Lau Lapides: not in Anne Ganguzza: not in Lau Lapides: an Anne Ganguzza: an Lau Lapides: angry Anne Ganguzza: angry Lau Lapides: way, Anne Ganguzza: way, Lau Lapides: but in Anne Ganguzza: but Lau Lapides: a Anne Ganguzza: in Lau Lapides: way Anne Ganguzza: a way Lau Lapides: where Anne Ganguzza: where Lau Lapides: I sort Anne Ganguzza: I sort Lau Lapides: of prioritize Anne Ganguzza: of prioritize that Lau Lapides: that Anne Ganguzza: they're Lau Lapides: they're not Anne Ganguzza: not Lau Lapides: going Anne Ganguzza: going Lau Lapides: to Anne Ganguzza: to Lau Lapides: be Anne Ganguzza: be Lau Lapides: taking Anne Ganguzza: taking Lau Lapides: a lot Anne Ganguzza: a lot Lau Lapides: of my Anne Ganguzza: of my Lau Lapides: time. Anne Ganguzza: time. Lau Lapides: They're not going to be. forefront in my life because I have to keep my goals alive. And finding those, we talked about this once before, those growth people. Where are Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: those growth people Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: that can help me through that I can soundboard to, that I can vent to, that I can learn from, that can help me grow and also validate me? Like Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: really validate the choices. So finding whether it's an accountability group or self-help group Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: or just a friend that is also working on a career where they're Anne Ganguzza: where they're Lau Lapides: moving Anne Ganguzza: moving Lau Lapides: up, Anne Ganguzza: up Lau Lapides: but Anne Ganguzza: but Lau Lapides: others Anne Ganguzza: others Lau Lapides: are Anne Ganguzza: are. Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: holding them down, is to help each other grow and get to the next step. Anne Ganguzza: Right, right. Lau Lapides: Get a buddy. Anne Ganguzza: And I, well, I'll tell you what, and I think that that's absolutely something that if you are not getting support, let's say from your spouse or significant other, that I think is almost critical for you to, you know, to survive in the industry. Because I know I've had a few people that I know where their spouses were not in support and consistently Lau Lapides: Yeah, Anne Ganguzza: were dragging them down. Lau Lapides: I have two. Anne Ganguzza: consistently demanding, you know, where's the money going? Why are you not making any money? You know, you need to help support the family, get a real income, or whatever it is, right? It's hard enough to run your own business and to deal with the uncertainties that you face with your own, maybe, insecurities, in maybe, I'm not familiar with this territory, and I need to learn more, and I need to, you know, what do I need to do to make it? to make it successful, let alone having the people around you, right, trying to bring you down or sabotage you, as you mentioned. So Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: that's Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: very difficult. So it's super important to have that support somewhere to keep you lifted up and to keep your momentum going forward Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: in that situation. Lau Lapides: And you know what I've seen too, more often than not, that the family or the close people to this Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: person, it's not that they're unsupportive or they're against them. It's just they're not actively or proactively doing things to make their path easier. So Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: I'll give you an example. A mom who's got children, whether they're young children or whether they're teenage children, whatever. I've heard this from several of my clients, like it took forever. And like, don't you have a setup? Where's your studio? Where's your Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: desk? Are you setting up a mic? Months and months and months and months would go by. I'd say, what's going on? It's not a money issue. No, it's just, you know, I can't find space in my house. You know, my Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: kid needs the space for football and my other kid needs the space for this. Then my husband wants the space for his disc. And then Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: and I said, well, wait a second. Where's your space? Where's your studio? Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: Where's Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: your identity? So it's that idea of that liberation and that freedom and that courage to say, I count too, I matter too. This is not the only role I play Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: as mom Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: or dad, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Mom or, Lau Lapides: since Anne Ganguzza: do Lau Lapides: we have Anne Ganguzza: you have Lau Lapides: a lot Anne Ganguzza: a spouse? Lau Lapides: of dads Anne Ganguzza: Yep, Lau Lapides: at Anne Ganguzza: mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: home too. Anne Ganguzza: yep. Lau Lapides: Dad, I'm not only dad, I'm not only a breadwinner. I'm someone who's a creative, I'm an Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: artist, and I wanna be a talent, and I'm moving towards this. So I have to have the respect zone Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: of Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: my Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: space and really claim that. That's actually, I've seen that a lot, Ann. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: I've seen Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: that more often than not. Anne Ganguzza: Oh, absolutely. And it makes it doubly hard or triple difficult for, I think, these people to gain traction in the industry because it's almost like they have to prove themselves before they'll get any support. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: You know, well, when are you going to get a voice-over job? I mean, when are you going to book something? That kind of a thing. And so it's always an uphill climb to get that space, that recording space, to get that that, you know, they have to either go out and get a part-time job so they can make money so they can pay for coaching, so they can get a demo. But I'll tell you what, I would say that the majority of my clients who I have found that have done that and have persevered. through that have been some of the most successful Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: voiceover businesses that I know now because they have the resilience Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: and they had the commitment and through it all they persevered. and were Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: able to finally, you know, and not only prove to themselves, but end up proving to any of the members of the family that we're not necessarily as supportive as they could have been, that this is a viable career. It is a viable, you know, it is a viable thing for me to do and to make money at it. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. And you just said it earlier, you know, don't just ask, ask. You got to give too. So don't just ask for space and what you need. Be willing to work a little harder. Be willing to work Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: extra. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: One suggestion I'd like to make too that seems kind of like, oh, but isn't that like a 1952 thing? No, it's not. I'm not suggesting to separate all of your finances in your life. That's how Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Lau Lapides: whatever you're gonna do with your spouse, with your partner is what you're gonna do. But I'm just talking about our career, your career, your space as a talent, have separate finances. And that way, not only can Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: you track for your tax purposes and your studio expenses, and it keeps it really clean for your bookkeeper and your accountants at the Anne Ganguzza: Yep, Lau Lapides: end of Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: the year, but it also keeps this anonymity or privacy about not having to ask permission of the other all the time Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: to get what you need or what you want for your career. Like Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: that should be your choice and your independent choice and if it comes down to money, well maybe you do need to get another Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: side job or another Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: hustle or Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: another whatever so that you can have that privacy ready to go when you need it rather than depending on allowances Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: from others. Anne Ganguzza: And I love that you said that. And I think honestly, if you want to talk about the single biggest thing that I think that is lacking from the clients who don't get the support from their significant other spouse, it is the financial aspect of it. And so yeah, and I always look before there was even voiceover. Lau Lapides: Hmm? Anne Ganguzza: I don't know what it was, but personally when I got married, I always had my own account. I had my account, you know, I was on my own before I met my husband. We met each other late in life. And so I, you know, I had my own account. I owned a house and that kind of thing. And what I love about that is it made me financially independent. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: And I was able to, when my husband and I got married, I just said, well, I'm keeping my account and you keep your account and we'll just have a joint account that we both will Lau Lapides: Yeah, Anne Ganguzza: put Lau Lapides: yeah, Anne Ganguzza: in. Lau Lapides: yeah. Anne Ganguzza: But nothing has to go into the main account unless we decide to put it in. We both kept separate accounts. And I was able to keep track. And first of all, it makes it super easy when you are creating a business, right, to keep your Lau Lapides: Yes. Anne Ganguzza: business finances separate. Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: And that's kind of cool because any of you that might have trouble explaining, Why do you need a separate account? Well, it's a business, right? So therefore Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: you have a separate account. You can do whatever you need to do to put money in that account so that you can make investments, take the money out of that account for coaching, demos, studio space, whatever it is that you need to grow your business. And I think that that has really been something that for me, I mean... They say that a lot of couples argue, and money is the number one thing that they might argue about. I can't say that I've ever argued about money Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: since having an independent account. And Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: having the respect that I have one, my spouse has one, and we also have a joint account that we throw money in, if we want to take a vacation, or we want to landscape the backyard, or whatever it might be, Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: we... put into that account, but there's Lau Lapides: That's Anne Ganguzza: no expectations. Lau Lapides: right. Anne Ganguzza: And I think Lau Lapides: That's Anne Ganguzza: that's Lau Lapides: right. Anne Ganguzza: such a great suggestion law for anybody that might be experiencing difficulties or lack of support from a significant other, is just go and open that business account, right? Because you need one anyways, in order to incorporate or run that business efficiently and effectively. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. And then this was a running joke between one of my colleagues and myself at my studio. It was like, well, I literally, law, literally could not find any space in my house for my studio. I Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: couldn't, it either had a technical issue or my kids were there or the Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: TV was on or the dogs were there. I said, great. Now you need to get a she shed. Anne Ganguzza: Yes, absolutely, as Lau Lapides: Or Anne Ganguzza: she Lau Lapides: a Anne Ganguzza: said. Lau Lapides: he shed Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: or a they Anne Ganguzza: Uh, Lau Lapides: shed. I Anne Ganguzza: yep. Lau Lapides: don't care what pronoun Anne Ganguzza: Yep. Lau Lapides: you use, but you need Anne Ganguzza: Yep. Lau Lapides: a shed. Anne Ganguzza: You need a pronoun shed. Lau Lapides: Yes, you need a pronoun shed that is an independent structure that stands on its own separate from your dwelling Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: Because I am a person of no excuses. I just don't think there's an excuse for not being able to work I think Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: like if you Anne Ganguzza: yeah. Lau Lapides: have a problem fix it like Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: make it into this well, but it's expensive Well, it's an investment. It's Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: a write-off. Anne Ganguzza: right. Lau Lapides: It's not a cost, it's a write-off. And it's your private space. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm, Lau Lapides: You can decorate Anne Ganguzza: absolutely. Lau Lapides: it. You can put up whatever you need to put up. You can scream. You can do Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: yourself tapes. You can do your MP3s. And it's freedom for you. And I think that if you can't find anything in your apartment or anything anywhere, they say, wait a second, I don't own the land law. I'm in an apartment. What do I do there? Well, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: think about that. Where can you go? that you can either build something Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: or you can rent something by the hour. Now Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: people are dying to get you into their podcast spaces and their audio spaces to rent by the hour because so many people are at home that Anne Ganguzza: that Lau Lapides: they Anne Ganguzza: they Lau Lapides: can't even Anne Ganguzza: can't Lau Lapides: rent. Anne Ganguzza: even rent. Lau Lapides: You can Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: go to places like workspaces and staples Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: and Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: all sorts of places really cheaply. and rent by the hour. I mean, is Anne Ganguzza: Is Lau Lapides: it a fix forever? No, but Anne Ganguzza: it a fix forever? Lau Lapides: it's Anne Ganguzza: No. Yeah. Lau Lapides: in the interim, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: it's good Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: now until you figure out your next move. Like Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely. Lau Lapides: there's always an answer to Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: that. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, there's always a solution. I truly believe there is always a solution, if you want it bad enough, right? I mean, Lau Lapides: Hehe, Anne Ganguzza: gosh, Lau Lapides: yeah. Anne Ganguzza: we travel and we record in hotels. So Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: pillow forts. I mean, there is a solution, pillow forts. Uh. and the right mic and the right interface will get you, you know, a place, your car. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: If you can go to the car, that can be a studio. So I think where there's a will, there's a way. And I will say that, you know, having that, definitely having that independent financial account that allows you to, you know. draw upon that for investment into your she shed, into your renting of a studio, or your rig that allows you to go to the car to record and do your auditions. Whatever that might be, I think that there is a solution for it. And in the interim, I think it just, the tenacity and just keeping through it, making sure that you have support somewhere. that can keep you lifted up, going towards, heading towards your goal. I think that's just very, very important. There's a lot of wonderful supportive communities here. At VOBoss here, we're here to support you. Accountability groups are amazing. Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: Community groups are amazing. Lots of great Facebook groups out there. I've got my VOP's group and Law, you've got your group Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: as well. And, you know... And Bev Stani has the water cooler group, which is just kind of fun if you want to get together with other voice of artists. I know there's so many wonderful accountability groups that can really help in that situation. And yeah, I mean, I Lau Lapides: I Anne Ganguzza: think Lau Lapides: think Anne Ganguzza: there's... Lau Lapides: too, Ann, along with that, like hand in hand, depending on what your belief system is, sometimes you need spiritual groups as well. Anne Ganguzza: Mmm, mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: Sometimes you need people that are going to lift your spirit, whether you're religious or not Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: religious, whether you wanna talk mystical or not, but you find the right match for yourself that helps you build the courage up, that if you are Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: alone and on your own and you're Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: isolated and you're not accepted in the family, your friends circle, that there are groups out there that are going to help lift you up as a person, not Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: just as a talent, but as a human being in the world to give you courage. And one more tip I got for you too is, and we will all want to do this, we have to be really guarded about it, like don't overshare. Be careful. Anne Ganguzza: Mmm. Lau Lapides: Don't overshare with people Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: that you know are going to tear you down. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: They're going to put up the walls as to why you can't, shouldn't. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: not supposed to do things, Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: don't share too much with those people. Let the sharing go to the people who are like-minded, people who are going Anne Ganguzza: Sure. Lau Lapides: to raise your spirit, Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely. Lau Lapides: raise your vibration, and get you excited about it versus Anne Ganguzza: Mm. Lau Lapides: the people who are going to give you every reason in the book why not to do it. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, yeah, exactly, and why you can't and why you won't succeed. Absolutely. Lau Lapides: Yeah. Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: So, yeah, absolutely. What's the wonderful advice law? Lau Lapides: So exciting, right? Like where there's a will, there's a way, but it's really true, there Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: is. There's Anne Ganguzza: Yeah. Lau Lapides: always a way to do things that you love to and want to and deserve to do. And just having the knowledge of like, write down your mantras, write down Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: your affirmations every morning, stick them on your fridge or wherever you stick them and say, I deserve this. I need this. I want this. I matter. And just believe it. Anne Ganguzza: Absolutely. Lau Lapides: And then you'll get it if you believe it. Anne Ganguzza: And guys, I'm going to say, like, this just transcends even just voiceover industry. This is for anything that you want to do, Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: right? As entrepreneurs, as bosses, I mean, whether it's voiceover or something else that is aligned with voiceover or acting or whatever it may be, I truly believe that you can... you can get the support where there's a will, there's a way. And I love that you brought up the spiritual aspect of it too, because it is so personal, right? It does affect us being an entrepreneur, and not just a voiceover actor, not just an actor, but being an entrepreneur and running your own business and having a dream and pursuing that dream. It is something so personal to us that, you know, it- It transcends just voiceover groups or voiceover, you know, accountability groups or Facebook groups. It really, you just need to have the people that can help lift you up no matter where. Lau Lapides: Yeah. Anne Ganguzza: No matter where you get that. And, you know, spiritually is amazing, is an amazing source Lau Lapides: Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza: of being able to have a group of people that can lift you up and support you when you need. Lau Lapides: Yeah, and give yourself that little bit of extra self-care Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: that you may need, that you may Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: be missing in your life, whether it's a massage treatment or Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: an extra whatever, so that you've got that extra bit of health, of mindset, of balance that you need to get stronger and find the right people to get on your side. And you'll absolutely do it. People have come from really, really challenging backgrounds Anne Ganguzza: Oh yeah. Lau Lapides: with nothing and have become everything. Anne Ganguzza: Mm-hmm. Lau Lapides: So it really is mind over matter for sure. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, yeah. What a great discussion, Law. Lau Lapides: Beautiful. Anne Ganguzza: Yeah, Lau Lapides: I loved Anne Ganguzza: we have Lau Lapides: it. Anne Ganguzza: the faith in you, bosses. We definitely, Lau Lapides: We do. Anne Ganguzza: we have faith in you. And again, VOBoss, we're here for you guys. And, you know, go out there and believe in yourself. Find people that will help support and lift you up. And yeah, I love it. I love it. And Lau Lapides: You can do it. Anne Ganguzza: guys, as individuals, it may seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, We can certainly contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn how. Also a big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can network and connect like bosses using amazing technology. Find out more at IPDTL.com. You guys have a great week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau Lapides: See you next week.