The Copywriter Club Podcast

What does it take to build and maintain a great community? We’re not sure we’ve got the answers, but we thought we should talk about it with The Copywriter Club’s Community Manager, Brandon Burton. For the past year, Brandon’s had an insider’s view of everything that happens in our free Facebook group as well as our private (paid community) Copywriter Underground group. Brandon’s influence in both groups has made these communities better. Here’s a bit about what we talked about… •   why he left a comfortable sales position to become a copywriter •   how he leveraged a multi-month parental leave to start his own business •   the blog he launched that turned into his first community •   what it takes to be a good sales person—and how to sell ourselves •   why he is re-branding his business (and the process he’s using to do it) •   the mistakes introverts are making in their businesses •   what he did early on to get his foot in the door and find clients •   what Brandon struggles with in his business •   Rob and Kira’s thoughts on being introverted and getting out there •   what he does as the community manager of The Copywriter Club •   the ingredients that make a strong community •   what you can learn in the right community—even if you’ve got a lot of experience •   where the opportunities in social media are right now •   the scary thing Kira’s doing outside of business right now •   the future of copywriting as Brandon sees it This is a solid episode you won’t want to miss. To hear it, click the play button below. Or scroll down for a full transcript. Don’t forget to subscribe on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club FB Group Brandon’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

Building a successful business isn’t easy… but it should be simple. That is, you don’t need to do “all the things” in order to make a living. In fact, a minimal approach may help you grow in ways you don’t expect. Our guest for the 214th episode of The Copywriter Club is marketing minimalist Ellen Yin. She shared her formula for running a simple, but profitable business and a whole lot more. Here’s a bit of what we covered: •   how Ellen became a marketing minimalist •   the basic systems you must have in order to succeed •   the purpose behind your social media use •   the problem with adopting someone else’s marketing strategy •   her simple marketing system that keeps her sales system going •   how she takes prospects through her sales process, step by step •   how she maintains a 70% close rate on six month contracts •   the differences between marketing services and products •   the mistakes you might be making using hashtags on instagram •   short term vs. long term marketing efforts and why you need both •   having help to support your “lazy” marketing efforts •   how to borrow someone else’s audience and connect authentically •   when to build your own audience and when to borrow •   the state of the union on Instagram—what’s working and not •   the basics of marketing on instagram—you don’t have to do all the things •   striking the right balance between products and services •   the steps to take to reach a big monthly income number like $10K •   the “hidden funnel” that takes less work for getting/retaining clients •   why she shared her quarterly income with her audience •   how she finds the gold in bad investments in courses and coaches •   batching and the impact it has on her days •   the options for investing… mindset, skillset or network •   Rob and Kira’s “one thing” that has helped them in their businesses This is a good one—especially if you look around at all the things other copywriters do and think, “how are they getting it all done?” To hear it, click the play button below. Or to read what Ellen shared, scroll down for a full transcript. And of course, you should subscribe and leave a review if you enjoy this interview. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ellen’s Podcast Hashtag Hacks Hira Usama The One Thing by Gary Keller Linda Perry Ellen’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

Among the copywriters we’ve had the pleasure to meet, there are a lot of former teachers who have gone from helping students learn history, math, and English and now help teach customers about products and services that meet their needs. Our guest for the 213th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Francis Nayan, a former teacher, now conversion copywriter specializing in emails. Francis told us about how he made the switch and what he’s doing now. Here’s what we talked about: •   the first hit of dopamine that led him to believe he could make a living as a copywriter •   what he did to grow his business after landing his first client •   his wild-west approach to finding clients and why it didn’t work very well •   the first big client that turned into an intense marketing training opportunity •   why he looked forward 6 months to figure out what to do next •   how he focused on better habits to build the business he wanted •   the tangible benefits Francis has gotten from the investments in his biz •   our first gigs—how we got started as copywriters •   being intentional about the business you are building—and doing it early on •   the habits Francis has adopted to get ahead—cold showers, 5 AM, lemon water •   the kinds of email packages he works on and what he charges •   what’s involved in creating email strategy •   email deliverability—what you can do to make sure your emails make it to the inbox •   dealing with the psychology of trimming your list •   the best subject line for your emails

Do you ever listen to what our podcast guests share and think, that’s not the kind of business I am building? Today’s guest for the 212th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Liz Painter. She has built a very “normal” copywriting business—one that probably looks a lot like your business. And there’s still a lot here that we can all learn from. Here’s what we asked her about: •   her path from journalist to email strategist and copywriter •   how copywriting and journalism are different and how to write better •   Liz’s writing process and formulas—and how it’s different from others we’ve seen •   the #1 thing she tries to accomplish in the email she writes •   3 different formulas for writing email sequences •   how Liz finds her clients and what she does to get referrals from clients •   what her business looks like today and how it all works day to day •   how Liz has networked herself into several agency relationships •   how she changes boundaries and processes when working with agencies •   her LinkedIn strategy and how it immediately to a new client and more connections •   the “comment first” strategy for finding connections •   going all in on one social media platform and not stretching yourself too thin •   Liz’s sales process—step by step—and how she makes sure to get a “yes” •   what Liz does differently from other clients—she definitely listens more •   the #1 lesson she learned from working with Copyhacker’s agency •   what Liz struggles with in her business—why it took so long to find success •   what she would do differently if she had to start over •   a list of books she recommends for personal improvement •   what she’s doing to save the bees with every project she works with This is a great interview with a copywriter who is doing a lot of things right. To hear it, click the button below. Or scroll down to read the transcript. Better still, subscribe with your favorite podcast app and never miss a show! The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Joanna Wiebe Amy Posner Better Proposals Philip Pullman novel Shinesty The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson Essentialism by Greg McKeon Personality Isn’t Permanent by Benjamin Hardy Life in Half a Second by Matthew Michalewicz The One Thing by Gary Keller The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks Liz's website & Instagram Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   You ever listen to the guests that we talk with on the podcast and think, "Their business is nothing like mine. What they're doing is so different from other copywriters and I'm not really sure that I can learn anything from they're saying."? Well, our guest for the 212th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Liz Painter. She has a business like most copywriters and yet there are plenty of things that she's doing that we can all learn from. Whether it's her approach to LinkedIn, how she's worked with agency clients, or her sales process, Liz is doing a lot of stuff very successfully. She stopped by to share all of the details in this excellent interview. Kira:   We'll share our discussion with Liz in a moment. But first this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank, our private mastermind group for copywriters and marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their business, receive one on two coaching from the two of us, and ultimately grow to 200K or more. The think tank is now open for a few select new members. If you're interested you can visit copywriterthinktank.com to learn more about this mastermind. Rob:   So let's get to our interview with Liz Painter. Kira:   Liz, before we hit record we were just remembering our time with you in San Diego way back in March when we got to stroll down the street leisurely with you and hang out with you in person and it just seems so long ago now.

Retainers or projects? That’s a question a lot of copywriters ask themselves when they determine what kind of business they want to build. But who says you have to choose? Our guest for the 211th episode of The Copywriter Club is Brian Speronello who’s “Barbell Strategy” takes advantage of both projects and retainers to make his business stronger and more resilient. We asked him about: •   how Brian used a course to specialize and launch his copywriting business •   the “try it before you buy it” approach to buying a course •   a random bar encounter and the importance of taking first steps toward success •   what Brian would have done differently if he had to do it all again •   the tripod framework for deciding to go full-time as a freelancer •   how Brian was able to test-drive working for himself while holding down a FT job •   what it takes to make the leap into freelancing •   what Brian’s business looks like today—it’s half of his barbell strategy •   the limits of retainers and how Brian makes them work in his business •   the “Landlord Retainer” model that makes sure you always get paid •   the big fail Brian had when he agreed to work for royalties •   the legal clause he includes in all agreements to protect himself today •   our thoughts on Brian’s business model •   his process for getting clients to refer additional clients to him •   the investments he’s made in his business to “fill the holes” in his skillset •   the part we played in getting Brian to get his program ready to launch •   why he treats his own project as his fourth business client •   what the Lindy Effect means for the future of copywriting This is a great interview, full of tips and lessons any copywriter can apply in their own business. To hear it, click the play button below. Or download this episode to your favorite podcast player. Better still, subscribe and never miss an episode. And if you prefer to read, scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ramit Sethi’s Earn 1K Upwork Kim Schwalm Justin Goff Stefan Georgi Alvaro Barrios Brian's website The Script Brian Talked about Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

For the 210th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob and Kira are guest-less, which means it’s just us, talking about what’s going on in our lives and in the club. Here’s what we covered this week: what we’ve done to create a routine during the “shutdown” an update on the new podcast format—what we think about the extra work what else we’re working on as we update other parts of The Copywriter Club how we’re trying to make everything we do more helpful for copywriters what we’re doing differently with our email today trying to create a better separation between work and “life” how we spend our “CEO” time and what we’re doing differently what we’re reading right now why you should ask Kira to do something crazy right now how we’ve adjusted our mastermind to virtual—and the success we’ve seen To hear what we shared on this episode, click the play button below or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. There’s a full transcript below as well. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kirsty Fanton Liz Green Rosie Theresa Brandon Fina Perry Marshall The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Think Like a Monk by Jay Shetty The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks Ian Stanley Year of Yes by Shonda Rhimes Alchemy by Rory Sutherland Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   Never a clever way to start when it's just you and me. Kira:   On a rainy Monday. It's raining here. I feel like I just want to curl up in bed, but instead we're going to start this podcast. And so, Rob, how are you? Rob:   I am doing great. Before we get into how we're actually doing, we should say, this is the 210th episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast, and if you're wondering why there wasn't a funny or story based intro, it's because we don't have a guest today. It's just you and me. And we just want to give a little bit of an update and maybe a review of what's been going on over the last couple of weeks. So then to answer your question, I'm doing great. How are you? Kira:   I'm good. I was just thinking it would be fun to do our new commentary that we've added to the last 10 episodes. If you all haven't noticed and add that to this episode, so we can add commentary on top of our commentary and just go really meta with it. Rob:   It could get a little meta. It also might get annoying. This is where we break in to say that was actually totally wrong, what you just said, Rob. Kira:   But we're jumping in here. It's been a while, I think, since we've really shared what we've been up to in our worlds and in the Copywriter Club and our copywriting businesses. So when you reflect back over the last few months, Rob, how are you dealing with world craziness, recession, all this stuff, COVID? How is your family doing? How are you doing? Rob:   At this point end of summer, middle of the fall, we're doing pretty good. I think we've figured out a routine. I was one of the lucky ones who, very early on, got the virus and I spent a whole week being kind of sick and very tired. Kira:   I forgot about that. Rob:   In fact, I was watching a video that we recorded back in April and I saw myself. I was like, oh my gosh, I look half dead. I look horrible. But yeah, we've gone through the school cancellations and summer, and then my kids are actually back in school at school. At least they've had one short break because the number of infections rose to whatever the level is that it hits and then they cancel school for a week or so. They've actually gone back now the second time and things are pretty good. Rob:   We do better with routine at my house, especially when it goes around school. My kids are older. I have teenagers. And so there's not a lot of supervision that needs to happen other than just sort of getting kids out of bed, which is a teenage challenge. I was that way,

When it comes to building a copywriting business, there are lots of options. You can sell services. You can sell products. You can even create a platform. How about all three? Our guest for the 209th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is Eman Zabi and we asked her all about her unique approach to her business—one that includes all three of these approaches to earning money. We talked about… •   an update on what she’s been doing the past 2+ years •   some of the “insane” ideas she’s pursued since our last interview •   why she made so many changes to her business •   the mistakes she made as she started building her team of 13 •   how one of her employees faked her father’s death to not get fired •   what it takes to manage a larger team (including how she pays her writers) •   what Eman’s copywriting projects look like today •   her advice to copywriters who are thinking about growing a team •   balancing business growth with mindset growth •   why Eman decided to create physical products (and the production process) •   the products Eman may create and offer in the future •   the “mom” test to prove the product would work •   embracing the hustle culture and seeing it for what it is •   the software platform she’s created and why she leaned into this •   the different approach Eman is taking with Terrain to set it apart •   what’s wrong with courses and why the industry is still growing •   the ingredients for a great course (and how Terrain helps make it better) •   how we’ve changed our own courses to help members finish them •   making sacrifices to accomplish more now •   feeling the pressure to do everything and how Eman dealt with it •   the reason Eman is willing to explore ideas most copywriters don’t think about •   why she wouldn’t change if she could do it all over again—except one thing This is the second time we’ve interviewed Eman and if you heard the first episode, you’ll be amazed at how far Eman has come. To hear what she shared, click the play button below. Or scroll down for a full transcript. You can also subscribe anywhere great podcasts are found. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Eman’s First TCC Interview Jereshia Hawk Linda Perry Jordan Gill Eman’s Card Deck Terrain Eman's website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

Mindset is a topic we touch on quite a bit—because a healthy mindset is the foundation for everything we do well as copywriters and in life… and an unhealthy mindset? We’ll that won’t take you anywhere good. Our guest for the 208th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Ian Stanley. Ian doesn’t call himself a copywriter any more (we talk about why) but he knows a lot about copy and getting people to respond to his offers. We asked Ian about: •   how he became a copywriter—a story of height supremacy, MLMs and Clickbank •   what charging $5 an email taught him about templates and processes •   some of the early investments he made and what he learned from them •   hand copying sales letters—and what you might want to do instead •   how to grow taller—Ian spills the “scientific” details of an offer he wrote for •   what Ian’s done over the past couple of years to fix his broken mindset •   his daily mindset practice, the two wolves he feeds and his tattoo •   what you’re responsible for—and what you’re not •   his ayahuasca experience—this one gets a little wild •   Ian’s experience with the afterlife or whatever it was that he experienced •   the gift of being human that the gods can’t experience •   the program he created to uncover deeper mental and emotional blocks •   building passive income and leveraging your work •   the stupid stuff copywriters do to mess up projects and client relationships •   the conversation that leads to agreements that pay royalties •   Ian’s experiment with media and what he’s trying to accomplish •   doing what 95% of competitors aren’t willing to do—to stand out Another episode you won’t want to miss. To hear it, you can scroll down and press the play button or download this episode to your favorite podcast player. You’ll also find a full transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Clickbank CopyHour The Talent Code Brent Charlton The Surrender Experiment The Untethered Soul The Untethered Soul at Work Confessions of a Persuasion Hitman Ian's website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

Getting things done—or getting MORE done—is a struggle for many copywriters including us. But systems and processes can help. Our guest for the 207th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is systems expert, Jordan Gill. Jordan shared a ton of ideas for improving systems to help get things done and stop spending every minute on your business. It’s a message we definitely needed to hear—and maybe one you can relate to as well? Here’s what we talked about with Jordan… •   how she came to “love” systems even though she despised them •   the “launch-mageddon” that forced her to change her business for the better •   how systems give you more control and free you from anxiety •   whether people are born loving systems or whether they develop the skill over time •   how to use batching to get more done faster •   the role of discipline and creating structures that support your effort •   the “impossible” process of letting go and how to actually do it •   knowing your strengths and going all in on them •   how a team can help support your systems (and the systems you need before you hire) •   how she spends her time during a typical day and what her processes look like •   how her team spends their time to support Jordan each week •   the 4 Quadrants tool for determining what you should systemize or delegate •   our (Kira and Rob’s) own trust issues and how they impact getting stuff done •   how Jordan structures her VIP days—how she makes them work •   the importance of the right name for your VIP days—and other mistakes we make •   what Jordan does to balance work with real life •   the subscription boxes Kira—and maybe Rob—will be checking out If you struggle at all with systems and processes or getting things done, you’ll want to get this episode into your earbuds as soon as possible. Scroll down and click the play button to listen, or download this episode to your favorite podcast player. There’s also a full transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Jordan's website Melanie Duncan Deep Work by Cal Newport The Social Dilemma Strengths Finder Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

Facebook ads are one of those copywriting deliverables that neither of us focus on in our business. But we want to know more. So we invited copywriter and Facebook Ad Specialist Sarah Sal to share what she knows about the dark arts of Facebook ads. Here’s what we talked about: •   how Sarah went from math and IT to writing Facebook ads •   the connections between the disciplines of math and copywriting •   the basics you need to know about the algorithm to write Facebook ads •   what elements (tactics) you should include when writing an ad •   the resources she looks for before Sarah starts to write an ad •   why you might want to encourage comments on your FB ads •   some of the changes that have some to FB ads in the last couple of years •   how she looks for the different angles that might appeal to readers •   changing ads versus changing strategy •   what Sarah has seen is the most effective kind of ad on FB •   the investments she’s made in herself to make her more effective •   how she structures her packages and why she doesn’t sign on for the long term •   the mistakes she’s made along the way •   what she’s done to land big clients—and how you can do it too •   Sarah’s experience in The Copywriter Underground •   cats To hear what Sarah shared—or the extra thoughts Kira and Rob added—click the button below. Or subscribe using your favorite podcast app. For a full transcript, just scroll down. ..... The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sarah’s TCC Blog Post Sarah's website The Copywriter Accelerator Laura Belgray Perry Marshall Hootesuite AdEspresso Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:   Facebook ads are one of those copyrighting deliverables that neither Rob nor I do. We've run ads, but it's not our specialty. That's why we invited Sarah Sal to be our guest for the 206th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Sarah is one of our founding members of the Copywriter Underground, and one of the most active members in that group, which is why she was also our Mole of the Month, which is one of our most active and engaged members. And we call her Mole of the Month because most of our members, not all of them, refer to themselves as moles, as in the rodent. Sarah's always entertaining in the group and talks frequently about her cats, and pizza, and entertains all of us, as you'll see in this episode. And this conversation with Sarah gave us plenty to think about when it comes to running our ads on Facebook. Rob:   We'll get to our interview in just a second, but first we want to tell you that this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. That's our mastermind group for copywriters, content writers, brand strategists, anyone who is ready for the training, coaching and support that they need to grow their business to, say, $200,000 or more. This is the only place where Kira and I provide one-on-two strategy sessions and coaching designed to help you achieve more than ever. If you're interested in learning more about the Think Tank, drop us an email at rob@thecopywriterclub.com or kira@thecopywriterclub.com, and we'll tell you a little more. Kira:   Let's jump right into our interview with Sarah. Hey, Sarah. Let's kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a Facebook ads strategist and copywriter? Sarah Sal:   Curiosity, like a cat that is looking for trouble. Facebook marketing, copywriting have absolutely nothing to do with my background. I studied computer science in university and then I studied applied mathematics. And I really enjoyed research in math. I actually, for my thesis, wrote nearly 200 pages of math theorem, formula, proof, and so on. And at some point, I was. I'm going to do a PhD. I really enjoy math. It's really like meditation for me. But then, I realized once I started that I love math, I love research in math,