The Copywriter Club Podcast

We’ve been lucky to be mentored by several copywriters and marketers over the past few years. We met one of our mentors—Brian Kurtz—when we interviewed him way back in the beginning days of The Copywriter Club. He’s our guest, for the second time, on the 219th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We asked Brian about his stroke, how he’s changed his business this past year and a lot more, including: •   using excuses to NOT do what needs to be done •   how Brian predicted COVID with changes he made to his business •   retiring from all the things you don’t like to do •   Brian’s massive stroke and the impact it had on his business •   the legacy Brian wants to leave to future generations •   what he’s learned from the greatest copywriters ever •   why copywriters need to own their own media •   the different ways businesses have pivoted over the past year •   the different “clicks” on the dial that solve your client’s problems •   what he’s learned by starting a membership community •   his strategy for getting his members to renew each year •   what it would take to have a career like Brian’s today •   why Brian—the strategic schmoozer—hates networking •   the persuasive reminder that Brian keeps in his wallet •   how he implements reciprocation into everything he does—and why •   the “ask from nowhere” that doesn’t work and how to avoid it •   his advice to anyone going through a serious challenge right now •   givers and takers and where they land on the success ladder It was great to take a few minutes to catch up with Brian. To hear the interview, scroll down and hit the play button. Keep scrolling for a full transcript and links to the things we mentioned. And, of course, you can subscribe with your favorite podcast app to make sure you never miss an episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Brian’s book: Overdeliver overdeliverbook.com CoCo Dan Kennedy Gordon Grossman Robin Robins Stefan Georgi’s RMBC Influence by Robert Cialdini Give and Take by Adam Grant Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

One of the things that keeps waaaay too many copywriters from achieving their goals is fear. Which is a little odd because it’s not like our work puts us in dangerous or risky situations. We’re not fighting fires or facing down bad guys. And we’re not standing on a trapeze platform high above the ground, mustering the courage to jump. But that’s a very real situation that Annie Bacher, our guest for the 218th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast has experienced. She told us about it—and the lesson it holds for copywriters everywhere—in this interview. We also talked about: •   how she went from writing about Argentinian circus artists to writing for clients •   the “fear-less” lesson Annie learned from her trapeze artist that changed her outlook •   the importance of the early career feedback Annie got from her first boss •   the “what not to do” lessons she learned in her first copywriting job •   the catalyst for leaving her job and going out on her own •   why doing your own thing doesn’t mean you’re working on your own •   the different ways Annie has grown (and changed her biz) over the last year •   how cutting down on what she does has made business more enjoyable •   when Kira and Rob feel the “fear” in their work •   lightning decision jams and how she’s made them part of her business •   a framework for brainstorming solutions to sticky problems •   how you can create a workshop offer for your own business •   the “big promise” for the client when they participate in an LDJ •   the kinds of clients who are best for a workshop like the LDJ •   Annie’s experience in the Copywriter Think Tank—what she likes most •   what she’s struggled with in her business •   the advice she would give to Annie from a few years ago •   what we thought about the LDJs that we experienced •   why it’s okay that nobody has it all figured out This is a great interview packed with ideas you can use in your business. To hear it, scroll down and click the play button. Keep scrolling for a transcript. Or download this episode to your favorite podcast player. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott Annie's website Miro The Copywriter Underground Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

When it comes to creating the belief that you can deliver what your clients need, or that the products and services you write about will deliver a real transformation, nothing works better than a good demonstration. Our guest for episode 217 of The Copywriter Club Podcast is film maker and story teller, Jude Charles, who loves to talk about his formula for demonstrating proof. We covered a lot of ground in this interview, including… •   how Jude became a brand strategist and story teller •   why he wrote 11 “books" about his future life and whether he got it right •   using 10 year blocks to figure out where he is going •   the teacher who gave him a set of business cards and kicked off his career •   how he struggled to earn a few thousand dollars and the moment he almost gave up •   the difference between perspective and vision (and getting the right lens) •   figuring out the marketing and sales process to land better clients •   what copywriters should do to help clients understand what they can deliver •   what we all wanted to be when we “grew up” •   why sales and marketing doesn’t end when a client hires you •   what Jude covers in his roadmapping sessions—the stories he’s looking for •   how Jude uncovers the hidden stories his clients should be telling •   the differences between telling stories in copy and video •   coaching clients to understand that what they share is actually interesting •   why strategy is such an important part of what copywriters do •   why a film maker came to our event TCCIRL, then wore a cape the following year •   what it takes to raise your prices from hundreds to tens of thousands of dollars •   the confidence folder—and how Jude uses it to boost his performance •   the moments in his life that led to big leaps in mindset and success As usual, this episode is definitely worth a listen. Scroll down to find the play button… and a little farther to find a full transcript of the interview. But what you really should do is subscribe on your favorite podcast player so you never miss an episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Stefan Georgi Ramit Sethi Ben Settle The Promo Jude Made for Us TCCIRL Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:   David Ogilvy once wrote that visual demonstrations are effective because they help visualize your promise. They save time since you don't have to talk about what your product does, you can simply show it, and they are also memorable. But too many copywriters miss the chance to demonstrate the impact of their products and services, or their client's products. Our guest for the 217th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Jude Charles. Jude is a brand strategist, storyteller, and filmmaker who's passionate about the power of demonstrations and visual proof. Rob:   But before we dive into the demonstrations and proof, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. That's the membership community designed to help you create a more successful copywriting business. As a member, you have access to more than 60 hours of insightful training, group coaching calls, copy teardowns and reviews, weekly creative exercises, and our exclusive print newsletter mailed directly to your home. Go to thecopywriterunderground.com to learn more. Kira:   This is actually our second interview with Jude, the first one was lost when we had a technical glitch. So, we're thankful that Jude came back at all to answer our questions all over again. And with that, let's jump in. All right, so, Jude, let's start with your story. How did you end up as a brand strategist, storyteller, and filmmaker? Jude Charles:   So, I have always been interested in storytelling. From a very young age, eight years old, I wasn't the kid that would be outside playing basketball or football, even inside the house,

Writing copy with personality is hard. So what does it take to do it? We invited copywriter and brand ventriloquist Justin Blackman to talk about how he does it for the 216th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast—and to give us an update on everything he’s done since our first interview with him way back in episode 59. If you’re looking for ways to write with more personality, this interview is for you. Here’s what we covered: •   a recap of what he’s done in his business for the past 4 years •   how he doubled his salary a year after leaving his full-time gig •   how important building his authority was—and the result •   when it’s time to move on to the next thing in your career •   recreating your job/career as new opportunities arise •   what it takes to build the confidence to move forward •   taking on big challenges as a way to grow your authority and business •   the investments Justin has made in mindset •   how Justin’s ego kept him from writing his best work •   Justin’s advice to anyone who feels like they aren’t as far along as they should be •   how to write with more personality—the formulas that work •   how to figure out your own unique voice •   why so many voice guides are useless and what to do instead •   Justin’s WTF framework and how it captures the 3 parts of brand voice •   the things we’ve done in our businesses to change our mindsets •   Kira’s brand strategy guides and what they include •   the program he’s created to help others write with personality •   how he gets everything done—it starts with working on his own stuff first •   how to have fun while working as a copywriter •   his tattoo story—this goes back to what he said about ego getting in the way As usual, this is a great episode you won’t want to miss. Scroll down and hit the play button, or scroll a little farther to read a full transcript. Or download the episode to your podcast player. Better still, subscribe and never miss an episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Episode 59 Never Lose a Customer Again The Go Giver TCCIRL Linda Perry Lianna Patch Abbey Woodcock The Codex Persona Ian Stanley Liz Painter Prerna Malik The Big Leap by Gay Hendrix Justin’s website The tattoo video Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   Writing is hard, but writing with personality or perfectly capturing the personality of your client is even harder, but that's what Justin Blackman does. Justin is our guest for the 216th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. He stopped by to share how his business has changed since the last time that we spoke in depth about the Headline Project way back on episode 59. Kira:   Before we do that, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground, the membership for copywriters of all experience levels who want to invest in their businesses and grow. As a member, you get more than 60 hours of video training courses on marketing your business, improving your copywriting skills and fixing your mindset so you're set up for success. Learn more at thecopywriterunderground.com. Rob:   Okay. So let's jump into our interview with Justin. Kira:   Let's kick this off. My first question I even wrote down was, dude, what have you been up to the last year? Question mark. Question mark. Question mark. Because I feel like you've taken off. And I don't think it's just me because we talk about you and we say good things in our circles, and I feel like you just have, I don't know, like you just are doing the right things and it's paying off and you've put in a lot of hard work too that is worth acknowledging. But it just seems like you're doing really well. And so I am really excited to hear about what you've been doing, the changes you've made, and how it starting to pay off for you too. Justin:   See, I think that's the fun part because the last couple of mont...

What does it take to build and maintain a great community? We’re not sure we’ve got the answers, but we thought we should talk about it with The Copywriter Club’s Community Manager, Brandon Burton. For the past year, Brandon’s had an insider’s view of everything that happens in our free Facebook group as well as our private (paid community) Copywriter Underground group. Brandon’s influence in both groups has made these communities better. Here’s a bit about what we talked about… •   why he left a comfortable sales position to become a copywriter •   how he leveraged a multi-month parental leave to start his own business •   the blog he launched that turned into his first community •   what it takes to be a good sales person—and how to sell ourselves •   why he is re-branding his business (and the process he’s using to do it) •   the mistakes introverts are making in their businesses •   what he did early on to get his foot in the door and find clients •   what Brandon struggles with in his business •   Rob and Kira’s thoughts on being introverted and getting out there •   what he does as the community manager of The Copywriter Club •   the ingredients that make a strong community •   what you can learn in the right community—even if you’ve got a lot of experience •   where the opportunities in social media are right now •   the scary thing Kira’s doing outside of business right now •   the future of copywriting as Brandon sees it This is a solid episode you won’t want to miss. To hear it, click the play button below. Or scroll down for a full transcript. Don’t forget to subscribe on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club FB Group Brandon’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

Building a successful business isn’t easy… but it should be simple. That is, you don’t need to do “all the things” in order to make a living. In fact, a minimal approach may help you grow in ways you don’t expect. Our guest for the 214th episode of The Copywriter Club is marketing minimalist Ellen Yin. She shared her formula for running a simple, but profitable business and a whole lot more. Here’s a bit of what we covered: •   how Ellen became a marketing minimalist •   the basic systems you must have in order to succeed •   the purpose behind your social media use •   the problem with adopting someone else’s marketing strategy •   her simple marketing system that keeps her sales system going •   how she takes prospects through her sales process, step by step •   how she maintains a 70% close rate on six month contracts •   the differences between marketing services and products •   the mistakes you might be making using hashtags on instagram •   short term vs. long term marketing efforts and why you need both •   having help to support your “lazy” marketing efforts •   how to borrow someone else’s audience and connect authentically •   when to build your own audience and when to borrow •   the state of the union on Instagram—what’s working and not •   the basics of marketing on instagram—you don’t have to do all the things •   striking the right balance between products and services •   the steps to take to reach a big monthly income number like $10K •   the “hidden funnel” that takes less work for getting/retaining clients •   why she shared her quarterly income with her audience •   how she finds the gold in bad investments in courses and coaches •   batching and the impact it has on her days •   the options for investing… mindset, skillset or network •   Rob and Kira’s “one thing” that has helped them in their businesses This is a good one—especially if you look around at all the things other copywriters do and think, “how are they getting it all done?” To hear it, click the play button below. Or to read what Ellen shared, scroll down for a full transcript. And of course, you should subscribe and leave a review if you enjoy this interview. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ellen’s Podcast Hashtag Hacks Hira Usama The One Thing by Gary Keller Linda Perry Ellen’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

Among the copywriters we’ve had the pleasure to meet, there are a lot of former teachers who have gone from helping students learn history, math, and English and now help teach customers about products and services that meet their needs. Our guest for the 213th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Francis Nayan, a former teacher, now conversion copywriter specializing in emails. Francis told us about how he made the switch and what he’s doing now. Here’s what we talked about: •   the first hit of dopamine that led him to believe he could make a living as a copywriter •   what he did to grow his business after landing his first client •   his wild-west approach to finding clients and why it didn’t work very well •   the first big client that turned into an intense marketing training opportunity •   why he looked forward 6 months to figure out what to do next •   how he focused on better habits to build the business he wanted •   the tangible benefits Francis has gotten from the investments in his biz •   our first gigs—how we got started as copywriters •   being intentional about the business you are building—and doing it early on •   the habits Francis has adopted to get ahead—cold showers, 5 AM, lemon water •   the kinds of email packages he works on and what he charges •   what’s involved in creating email strategy •   email deliverability—what you can do to make sure your emails make it to the inbox •   dealing with the psychology of trimming your list •   the best subject line for your emails

Do you ever listen to what our podcast guests share and think, that’s not the kind of business I am building? Today’s guest for the 212th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Liz Painter. She has built a very “normal” copywriting business—one that probably looks a lot like your business. And there’s still a lot here that we can all learn from. Here’s what we asked her about: •   her path from journalist to email strategist and copywriter •   how copywriting and journalism are different and how to write better •   Liz’s writing process and formulas—and how it’s different from others we’ve seen •   the #1 thing she tries to accomplish in the email she writes •   3 different formulas for writing email sequences •   how Liz finds her clients and what she does to get referrals from clients •   what her business looks like today and how it all works day to day •   how Liz has networked herself into several agency relationships •   how she changes boundaries and processes when working with agencies •   her LinkedIn strategy and how it immediately to a new client and more connections •   the “comment first” strategy for finding connections •   going all in on one social media platform and not stretching yourself too thin •   Liz’s sales process—step by step—and how she makes sure to get a “yes” •   what Liz does differently from other clients—she definitely listens more •   the #1 lesson she learned from working with Copyhacker’s agency •   what Liz struggles with in her business—why it took so long to find success •   what she would do differently if she had to start over •   a list of books she recommends for personal improvement •   what she’s doing to save the bees with every project she works with This is a great interview with a copywriter who is doing a lot of things right. To hear it, click the button below. Or scroll down to read the transcript. Better still, subscribe with your favorite podcast app and never miss a show! The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Joanna Wiebe Amy Posner Better Proposals Philip Pullman novel Shinesty The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson Essentialism by Greg McKeon Personality Isn’t Permanent by Benjamin Hardy Life in Half a Second by Matthew Michalewicz The One Thing by Gary Keller The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks Liz's website & Instagram Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   You ever listen to the guests that we talk with on the podcast and think, "Their business is nothing like mine. What they're doing is so different from other copywriters and I'm not really sure that I can learn anything from they're saying."? Well, our guest for the 212th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Liz Painter. She has a business like most copywriters and yet there are plenty of things that she's doing that we can all learn from. Whether it's her approach to LinkedIn, how she's worked with agency clients, or her sales process, Liz is doing a lot of stuff very successfully. She stopped by to share all of the details in this excellent interview. Kira:   We'll share our discussion with Liz in a moment. But first this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank, our private mastermind group for copywriters and marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their business, receive one on two coaching from the two of us, and ultimately grow to 200K or more. The think tank is now open for a few select new members. If you're interested you can visit copywriterthinktank.com to learn more about this mastermind. Rob:   So let's get to our interview with Liz Painter. Kira:   Liz, before we hit record we were just remembering our time with you in San Diego way back in March when we got to stroll down the street leisurely with you and hang out with you in person and it just seems so long ago now.

Retainers or projects? That’s a question a lot of copywriters ask themselves when they determine what kind of business they want to build. But who says you have to choose? Our guest for the 211th episode of The Copywriter Club is Brian Speronello who’s “Barbell Strategy” takes advantage of both projects and retainers to make his business stronger and more resilient. We asked him about: •   how Brian used a course to specialize and launch his copywriting business •   the “try it before you buy it” approach to buying a course •   a random bar encounter and the importance of taking first steps toward success •   what Brian would have done differently if he had to do it all again •   the tripod framework for deciding to go full-time as a freelancer •   how Brian was able to test-drive working for himself while holding down a FT job •   what it takes to make the leap into freelancing •   what Brian’s business looks like today—it’s half of his barbell strategy •   the limits of retainers and how Brian makes them work in his business •   the “Landlord Retainer” model that makes sure you always get paid •   the big fail Brian had when he agreed to work for royalties •   the legal clause he includes in all agreements to protect himself today •   our thoughts on Brian’s business model •   his process for getting clients to refer additional clients to him •   the investments he’s made in his business to “fill the holes” in his skillset •   the part we played in getting Brian to get his program ready to launch •   why he treats his own project as his fourth business client •   what the Lindy Effect means for the future of copywriting This is a great interview, full of tips and lessons any copywriter can apply in their own business. To hear it, click the play button below. Or download this episode to your favorite podcast player. Better still, subscribe and never miss an episode. And if you prefer to read, scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Ramit Sethi’s Earn 1K Upwork Kim Schwalm Justin Goff Stefan Georgi Alvaro Barrios Brian's website The Script Brian Talked about Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

For the 210th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Rob and Kira are guest-less, which means it’s just us, talking about what’s going on in our lives and in the club. Here’s what we covered this week: what we’ve done to create a routine during the “shutdown” an update on the new podcast format—what we think about the extra work what else we’re working on as we update other parts of The Copywriter Club how we’re trying to make everything we do more helpful for copywriters what we’re doing differently with our email today trying to create a better separation between work and “life” how we spend our “CEO” time and what we’re doing differently what we’re reading right now why you should ask Kira to do something crazy right now how we’ve adjusted our mastermind to virtual—and the success we’ve seen To hear what we shared on this episode, click the play button below or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. There’s a full transcript below as well. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kirsty Fanton Liz Green Rosie Theresa Brandon Fina Perry Marshall The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Think Like a Monk by Jay Shetty The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks Ian Stanley Year of Yes by Shonda Rhimes Alchemy by Rory Sutherland Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   Never a clever way to start when it's just you and me. Kira:   On a rainy Monday. It's raining here. I feel like I just want to curl up in bed, but instead we're going to start this podcast. And so, Rob, how are you? Rob:   I am doing great. Before we get into how we're actually doing, we should say, this is the 210th episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast, and if you're wondering why there wasn't a funny or story based intro, it's because we don't have a guest today. It's just you and me. And we just want to give a little bit of an update and maybe a review of what's been going on over the last couple of weeks. So then to answer your question, I'm doing great. How are you? Kira:   I'm good. I was just thinking it would be fun to do our new commentary that we've added to the last 10 episodes. If you all haven't noticed and add that to this episode, so we can add commentary on top of our commentary and just go really meta with it. Rob:   It could get a little meta. It also might get annoying. This is where we break in to say that was actually totally wrong, what you just said, Rob. Kira:   But we're jumping in here. It's been a while, I think, since we've really shared what we've been up to in our worlds and in the Copywriter Club and our copywriting businesses. So when you reflect back over the last few months, Rob, how are you dealing with world craziness, recession, all this stuff, COVID? How is your family doing? How are you doing? Rob:   At this point end of summer, middle of the fall, we're doing pretty good. I think we've figured out a routine. I was one of the lucky ones who, very early on, got the virus and I spent a whole week being kind of sick and very tired. Kira:   I forgot about that. Rob:   In fact, I was watching a video that we recorded back in April and I saw myself. I was like, oh my gosh, I look half dead. I look horrible. But yeah, we've gone through the school cancellations and summer, and then my kids are actually back in school at school. At least they've had one short break because the number of infections rose to whatever the level is that it hits and then they cancel school for a week or so. They've actually gone back now the second time and things are pretty good. Rob:   We do better with routine at my house, especially when it goes around school. My kids are older. I have teenagers. And so there's not a lot of supervision that needs to happen other than just sort of getting kids out of bed, which is a teenage challenge. I was that way,