TCC Podcast #217: Dramatic Demonstration of Proof with Jude Charles

When it comes to creating the belief that you can deliver what your clients need, or that the products and services you write about will deliver a real transformation, nothing works better than a good demonstration. Our guest for episode 217 of The Copywriter Club Podcast is film maker and story teller, Jude Charles, who loves to talk about his formula for demonstrating proof. We covered a lot of ground in this interview, including… •   how Jude became a brand strategist and story teller •   why he wrote 11 “books" about his future life and whether he got it right •   using 10 year blocks to figure out where he is going •   the teacher who gave him a set of business cards and kicked off his career •   how he struggled to earn a few thousand dollars and the moment he almost gave up •   the difference between perspective and vision (and getting the right lens) •   figuring out the marketing and sales process to land better clients •   what copywriters should do to help clients understand what they can deliver •   what we all wanted to be when we “grew up” •   why sales and marketing doesn’t end when a client hires you •   what Jude covers in his roadmapping sessions—the stories he’s looking for •   how Jude uncovers the hidden stories his clients should be telling •   the differences between telling stories in copy and video •   coaching clients to understand that what they share is actually interesting •   why strategy is such an important part of what copywriters do •   why a film maker came to our event TCCIRL, then wore a cape the following year •   what it takes to raise your prices from hundreds to tens of thousands of dollars •   the confidence folder—and how Jude uses it to boost his performance •   the moments in his life that led to big leaps in mindset and success As usual, this episode is definitely worth a listen. Scroll down to find the play button… and a little farther to find a full transcript of the interview. But what you really should do is subscribe on your favorite podcast player so you never miss an episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Stefan Georgi Ramit Sethi Ben Settle The Promo Jude Made for Us TCCIRL Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:   David Ogilvy once wrote that visual demonstrations are effective because they help visualize your promise. They save time since you don't have to talk about what your product does, you can simply show it, and they are also memorable. But too many copywriters miss the chance to demonstrate the impact of their products and services, or their client's products. Our guest for the 217th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Jude Charles. Jude is a brand strategist, storyteller, and filmmaker who's passionate about the power of demonstrations and visual proof. Rob:   But before we dive into the demonstrations and proof, this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Underground. That's the membership community designed to help you create a more successful copywriting business. As a member, you have access to more than 60 hours of insightful training, group coaching calls, copy teardowns and reviews, weekly creative exercises, and our exclusive print newsletter mailed directly to your home. Go to thecopywriterunderground.com to learn more. Kira:   This is actually our second interview with Jude, the first one was lost when we had a technical glitch. So, we're thankful that Jude came back at all to answer our questions all over again. And with that, let's jump in. All right, so, Jude, let's start with your story. How did you end up as a brand strategist, storyteller, and filmmaker? Jude Charles:   So, I have always been interested in storytelling. From a very young age, eight years old, I wasn't the kid that would be outside playing basketball or football, even inside the house, I wasn't the kid that played video games. Instead, I would lock myself in a room after school and I would write. And what I was writing was these 100 page books of what I thought my future life would look like. So, I wrote books like The Police Life of Jude Charles, because growing up, I wanted to be a police officer, and The Baseball Life of Jude Charles. But in all, I wrote 11 books. Kira:   Oh my God. Rob:   So, more details here, what was The Police Life of Jude Charles like? Then, how developed were these stories? Jude Charles:   These stories were pretty developed because I was thinking 20 years into the future, so even though I was writing it as an eight-year-old child, I was writing it as if I was 28. Rob:   I love this. Jude Charles:   So, for me, it was just like, what could my future life look like? If I became a police officer, if I became a baseball player, what would that look like? And so, I wrote 11 books. And then, I got into high school, and in high school, I took a TV production class. And the teacher, Mrs. Donnelly, she taught me everything that she knew about video production. And then, at the end of the school year, she looks at me, she says, "Judy, you're really, really talented at this, you should start a business." Now, I'm the last of 10 children, no one in my family are entrepreneurs. My dad was a construction worker, my mom worked at a chair factory. And so, being an entrepreneur, I had no idea what that meant. But by the following day, May 5, 2006, I'll never forget it, she comes into the classroom with a yellow envelope, she hands me the yellow envelope, and I'm like, "What is this?" She's like, "Look inside." And when I opened up the yellow envelope, inside of the yellow envelope was my first set of business cards. And that's literally how I got started as an entrepreneur, as a filmmaker at 17 years old, starting a business. Kira:   Wow. Okay. Just a couple of questions about the 11 books that you wrote, over how many years? You started writing these books when you were eight, did you finish all 11 in a year, or a month, or was it spread out? Jude Charles:   It was from the age of eight till about 12 years old, I wrote consistently throughout those years. There are 11 books, but some of them were volume one, volume two. There was a book I had called From Boyhood to Manhood, and this was a story about me growing up with my best friends, who I'm actually still friends with to this day, and that had three different volumes. I think The Police Life of Jude Charles maybe had two. So, it was just repeated books, but different volumes of what I felt like the future would look like. Kira:   Did you write one where you became a filmmaker? Jude Charles:   I did not. I wrote one where... I think From Boyhood to Manhood, I ended up running a security firm. Obviously, The Police Life of Jude Charles, I became the sheriff. Baseball Life of Jude Charles is based off of the Jackie Robinson stories. So, I think I ended it at a certain point, but none of them were me becoming a filmmaker at all. Rob:   And do you still have the books? Are they in a box in the basement somewhere? Jude Charles:   I do still have the books, I still have all 11 of them. Because I've been doing podcasts regularly, I've been asked if I still have them, and I actually dig them out and start reading them. So, it's pretty fascinating to see some of the things that I wrote. Rob:   I think you should throw these up on the Kindle store, and we can all take a look at them. Jude Charles: (laughing) I'll give that some thought, I'm not sure. It is mind blowing the things that I was writing at that young of an age, but I don't know that I'm willing to be that vulnerable and just share that entire thing with the world. Kira:   Is there anything else that you predicted at that young age that came true, or maybe surprised you as you've looked back? Jude Charles:   There isn't anything, I think it's just surprising to see how developed my mind was, and the things that I was saying in the books, that's what surprised me the most. Other than becoming an entrepreneur that I had predicted, there wasn't anything else that I had predicted at that age that actually happened. Rob:   So, I love how future centered you were at that age, and I'm curious, now, looking back, do you do the same thing, do you project out? And maybe you're not writing it out in a book, but are you thinking, this is where Jude Charles is going to be 20 years from now the 48 year old, the 58 year old version of Jude Charles? Jude Charles:   Yeah. So, I like to think in 10 year blocks, and so I do try to think like, what will my life look like 10 years from now? When I first started the business in 2006, I always said I'd give myself 10 years to get to a point where I feel like I'm successful. And if I'm not successful at 10 years, I'll just call it quits. I don't want to keep this going if I'm not making any money, and I don't want to be the music artist that just keeps going even though they haven't had a hit record or a label sign them. And so, for me, I always think in 10 year marks… I'm at a point now though, it is very hard to think about what the next 10 years looks like. Obviously, starting a family and getting married, and doing different things like that, but it's hard to think. Because at some point, I've always thought that I would walk away from video production, or walk away from filmmaking, and it's hard to think what that would look like, what would I do next? Because this is all I've ever known for literally, almost 20 years of my life. Rob:   Or you're going to be a policeman, you'll be the sheriff. Jude Charles:   I might be a little too old for that by then, but we'll see. Rob:   Okay. So, going back to your story then, you got the business cards, and then what? What did you do to find clients, to start to create the kinds of videos? I'm sure what you were doing then,