The Copywriter Club Podcast

Allison Carpio is our guest for the 288th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Allison is a copywriter, analytics specialist, and food aficionado who breaks down what it means to overcome the headtrash that is holding us back from creating and doing what we truly want. In this episode, you’ll find out the importance of staying in alignment with your values, plus… Starting a freelance career while working a full time job. The mindset blocks and headtrash that stands in the way of pricing. The benefits of being in paid communities and high level masterminds. How to leverage your network and build your authority. Different support systems for your business – which ones do you need? The 3 steps to identify what is holding you back and how to overcome it. Building a “team” of supporters to work through perfectionism and fear of instability. Accelerating success and making business more fun and energetic. How Allison shifted the way she talks to her own audience and why that shift happened. Shifting your beliefs while shifting your business – How’s it done? How to build your email list with warm leads. Where to look for your collaboration opportunities. Crafting your welcome sequence like a private 1:1 dinner. Shaping your VIP day – How can you get more done in one day? The new challenges that entrepreneurs face as their business grows. Hit that play button below, you're not going to want to miss it. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Copywriting Income Survey Kira’s website Rob’s website Allison's website  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Sign up for Typeform Episode 234 Episode 258   Full Transcript:

Keina Newell is our guest on the 287th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Keina is a financial coach who helps professionals and solopreneurs with their money. With over $75,000 in student loan debt on a teacher’s salary, Keina knew she had to make a big change if she was ever going to achieve financial freedom. Whether you want to pay off debt, save and invest money, or a bit of all three, this episode will give you practical tips on doing just that. Here’s how the conversation goes: A career that is passion aligned but also helps you accomplish financial goals… real or myth? What is the purpose of money in our lives? How to backwards plan where you want to be financially. The steps to getting granular with your financial goals. Why you should pay yourself as an employee. 3 types of budgets and how to break them down. When to start building a financial system. An emergency fund for business vs personal. Taking a leap vs safety first: which are you? How to plan for expenses that come with being self employed. Where should we be investing when we DO have money to invest? How to create a money hell YES and a hell NO list. Why this one thing will impact your investment style. What about debt? Where does it fit into our financial plan? How to reframe your mindset around debt and change the money stories we grew up with. What it really means to charge less for your skills and how it will affect your future. 3 questions to ask yourself when deciding whether to cut down vs earn more. How to decide where your financial gap is. What to think about before hiring contractors. Why you need to start dating your money. Budgets – what’s that all about anyways? How to actually reach your financial goals. Financial tips for beginners – what are the first steps? How to start up money conversations with business partners. This episode is full of actionable steps to further our financial journeys, be sure to hit play or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Copywriting Income Survey Kira’s website Rob’s website Keina's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Sign up for Typeform Episode 110 Full Transcript: Kira: All right. Keina, let's kick this off with your story. How did you end up as a financial coach? Keina: I, I think my, my go-to answer is that God has a sense of humor, uh, which has been the theme my entire life, but I ultimately got into financial coaching because I was really looking at what did I enjoy doing? And one of the things that I really enjoyed was budgeting, and in my own personal story, um, I graduated college and with a lot of student loan debt. And in addition to having student loan debt, I actually joined Teach for America, which anyone who knows anything about teachers teaching is not like the highest-paid position in the world. And at that time, I was making probably like $30,000 a year and trying to figure out how could I actually do something that felt very passion-aligned but also be able to work towards buying a home, saving money and paying down student loan debt. So it was like through my own personal journey of budgeting and figuring out how to buy a house, how to make more money. And that progress over, over a decade, got me into the financial coaching space. Rob:  So as you've been coaching Keina and working with people on their own finances, where do you see the biggest opportunities or the starting point where we need to be thinking more about our finances? Keina:  I would say really knowing the purpose of money in your life. I always encourage people to think about when you're 80 years old, like, what do you wanna have achieved? And I think sometimes people think it's like a silly question, but I don't think that we actually kind of press pause to think about why are we doing the work that we're doing right now? Like, what is it in service of? Um, and so when you're 80, what does life look like? And, and really thinking about, okay, so if I am going to achieve those things, which generally people talk about, you know, wanting to be retired, I have grandkids I'm able to travel. Like, what does that actually mean for where you wanna be maybe five years from the current point in time? What does that look like for a year from now? What does it mean six months from now? But really starting to, I identify for me, what looked like financial goals. Like maybe it looks like, you know, you wanna save a certain amount of money. Maybe it looks like you are thinking about a home buying process, but I think we actually have to start to conceptualize and kind of backwards plan where we desire to be financially, so we can decide what we actually wanna work on in the here and now.  Rob:  So can we take that to an example level? Like what do, if let's say that one of my financial goals is to buy a home or, you know, maybe it's to travel more? Like, what should we be thinking about a year out or six months out, three years out? What does that look like?  Keina:  Yeah. So I would say like if just taking travel, for example, and getting kind of granular with that, I hear a lot of people talking about travel, but then when I ask them like, well, how much do you wanna spend on travel? They don't actually have a number. And so knowing how many trips do you wanna take? Are you taking three international trips? Are you taking four domestic trips? What's the price of all of those trips? Um, let's say in a year. And if you know that, um, each one of those trips is, is going to cost. Let's say $3,000 because you wanna take four domestic trips. Well, you know that you are going to need $12,000 annually to actually be able to travel. So where does that show up in your month-to-month budget that you're actually saving a thousand dollars a month so that you have that $12,000 travel budget? I would also say if you're thinking about buying a home, um, the other thing that I tell people to do is like, can you create space in your current budget for thinking about what it looks like to actually be a homeowner? So if you're paying right now $1,200 in rent and you wanna buy a house, let's even just say in the next two years, and you expect that mortgage to be, let's say you've done some numbers on the internet, you've looked at Zillow and you kind of know, oh, it's probably gonna cost me like $1,500 for a mortgage; are you able to actually save an extra $300 a month comfortably without that, without that impacting other areas of your finances? Kira:  So it seems like you're, you're working backwards. You're reverse engineering, the goals and purpose. Can you talk us through what you do with your clients? Maybe this would help us work through it on our own too. Do you start with the vision and then recommend working backwards from there? Is that where we should start?  Keina: Depends on who you're asking for, right? So specifically, I would say talking about business owners, I think if you're looking at your personal finances, I always tell people with business finances, I actually want you to sit down and write out what your personal expenses are. Like, how much do you actually desire to pay yourself? So as a business owner, you should be paying yourself consistently, and there's some amount of money that you desire to be paying yourself. But what I actually find with business owners is they give themselves money when their account gets low. What I want all business owners to do is actually pay themselves as though they're an employee. That doesn't necessarily mean $1000 on the 30th. I get $1000 because maybe it costs me $2,000 in terms of my personal expenses. But I would say first sitting down and thinking about like, what's the paycheck that you actually need to cover your, let's just start, with your like minimum household expenses? I generally talk about it with business owners as like bronze, silver, gold. And so your bronze budget might be something that like, I know that all of my lights will still be on. I will have a roof over my head. What does that look like? Then going up a step up from there, especially if we're tying it back to goals and saying, you know, do you desire to save more money? Do you desire to travel more? Maybe you wanna be able to invest more money in your like solo 401k, or you wanna open up a solo 401k or a Roth IRA. What does that look like in your silver budget? And then what does that look like in your gold budget? So kind of having like three tiers. So you're able to think about over time, what does it look like for you to be able to pay yourself? So that's one level of where I start with clients, but then that also informs, I would say, on the business, like how you can set revenue goals. So you can really think about if I desire to pay myself $5,000 a month, what does that need? I mean, I need to be making in my business annually or on average per month so that I can pay myself consistently $5,000 a month. Rob:  Yeah. These are really good questions to think about. Especially when we start talking about paying ourselves because it's not just as simple as writing a check for $5,000. There's taxes; there’s self-employment taxes that have to be paid and all of that. And so I have a feeling I know, you know, you're gonna say, it's never too soon to start planning this out, but you know, if I'm starting out as a copywriter, maybe I don't have that consistent flow of clients yet. Should I still be paying myself a thousand dollars a month, or do I need to make sure that, you know, the money is going to be there before I commit to that? Or, or maybe, you know, the number is higher, you know, maybe it should be $5,000 a month or, or does committing to it help me create it, or should I make sure that I have it before I commit?

Carline Anglade-Cole is our guest on the 286th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. While Carline has joined the show before, in this episode she gives us the inside scoop of creating a Youtube channel, writing her second book, and lessons we can all use in our lives and business. Check it out: Why Carline decided to channel her content on Youtube. What it takes to get started on Youtube + how to use copy skills to grow your channel. How a thumbnail is like a lead. Why Carline is giving away free content vs paid content. Carline’s Youtube strategy for maximum views. How copywriting has radically changed her life and surprises along the way. The process of shifting gears and getting out of your own way. The difference between selling physical products vs digital products. Why it’s a good idea to rechannel yourself to find things that excite you. Carline’s inspiration for writing a second book about lessons, mindset, and advice. How this ONE tip could change the way you view your copy. The importance of finding a support system that encourages you – but what if it’s not your family? The #1 mistake Carline sees copywriters making and how to fix it. Kira and Rob’s favorite chapters of Carline’s book: Your Copy Sucks, You Don’t. How Carline organized all her ideas to create her second book. If you’re thinking of broadening your reach by writing a book or starting a Youtube channel, be sure to tune into the episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Carline's website  Carline's book The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Our first episode with Carline Episode 65 Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Back when I worked a real job and I'm putting air quotes around “real”, I used to dread Mondays. In fact, when Sunday afternoon would come along, I'd start getting that feeling of dread in my gut and just really wasn't looking forward to work. And I think that's a pretty common thing among people who work regular nine to five jobs. Maybe you felt it yourself in fact. But since switching to copywriting and starting my own business, I can't recall ever feeling that Sunday dread. And I think that goes away when you truly love what you do. That's something that we share with our guest for today's podcast, Carline Anglade-Cole, and as you listen to what she shares, you'd probably agree that Carline is very obvious that she loves what she does. She's excited about writing, about teaching and about sharing the lessons that she's learned over her career as a copywriter. I get excited every time I talk to Carline. And I think that you're going to want to stick around to hear all the great advice that she shares in this episode. Kira Hug:  Before diving into the interview with Carline, the sponsor for this week's episode is the Copywriter Think Tank, which is our mastermind and coaching program that helps copywriters dive deeper and really explore ideas they didn't think were possible, and act on them. And we're really excited to introduce new coaches inside this mastermind experience. We've welcomed a mindset coach and a systems coach into the program so not only do you have our support and our feedback, but these other brilliant coaches in there as well. Linda Perry is the mindset coach and Jonnie Stellar is a systems coach. And what I'm really excited about right now in the Think Tank is that we are planning our upcoming retreat in Washington, DC, this June. And there's nothing better than getting this mastermind together in person. We were just together in Nashville, Tennessee for TCCIRL for our retreat there. And I'm excited to host a party at my house in DC for the Think Tank members. So we're looking forward to that. And if you have any interest in being part of a mastermind, like the Think Tank, you can head over to copyrighterthinktank.com to find out more information. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. There's never really been a better time to join the Think Tank than right now. And I'm so excited your parents are going to be out of town and we can have a party at your house. We'll have the whole high school over. Kira Hug:  Oh, it feels like that, doesn't it? Rob Marsh:  It does. All right. Let's get to our interview with Carline. Carline, so tell us... So this is not your first time here on the podcast. So we've already kind of been through your story and know how you came about and almost really created this career for yourself, but we brought you back because you're doing some interesting new things in your business over the last couple of years, the books, especially what you're doing with video, the tribute to Clayton. Let's talk about all of that stuff. So what's been going on for the last 12 months or so? Carline Anglade-Cole:  Thanks, first of all, having me back. Returns and repeat customers are always the best ones, right? Kira Hug:  Yes. Carline Anglade-Cole:  So thank you very much. I appreciate it. And then a lot has happened. I mean, when the Clayton tribute really got me going on a little different tangent where I didn't know I was going to be doing this and I just started kind of going with what was making sense. And so I'm doing a lot more teaching now. Once I had these amazing videos, I had 18 copywriters, marketers, people in the industry coming to share their special experiences of knowing Clayton and working with him, then they gave this amazing tribute and I had this awesome storehouse that I had to do something with. And I ended up... My assistant said, "You know what? Just put it on YouTube for everybody. Because I didn't want to sell anything to anyone. I wanted to give this as a gift because Clayton gave us so much as copywriters in the industry, that I felt like everything people were giving, doing that special tribute, it was going to be a gift. So I was not charging anything for it to anybody. So we put it up on YouTube and that kind of became the beginning for me on YouTube because I was not on YouTube. I didn't know how it worked. I just like, "Eh, nevermind." And all of a sudden I got these tributes on here and got me going into it. And so now I'm like a YouTube addict, right? I have learned about YouTube and I thought, "Well, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do it. I'm going to go big." You know? I'm not going to half step anything. So I decided to put together my YouTube channel, was Carline Cole YouTube channel, where it's four copywriters aspiring and existing or experienced writers who just want to know what I do, how I do my thing. I just give away my secrets as far as what I feel makes me a successful writer. And then I just have fun with it. I've got all kinds of videos, training videos. I've got adventure videos because copywriting is not just about sitting at your desk, writing copy. It's about your whole life. When you become a copywriter, you have gotten control of your life from day one, from that point on, because you can decide how long you're going to work. You're going to decide who you're going to work with, where you're going to work. All these things are now within your control. So I have that whole Adventures with CopyStar Carline series where it's like, "Hey guys, come with me. I'm in Africa," or, "Here I am in Asia." Or I have one coming out tomorrow of going on a camel safari in the Baja desert. And it's just cool fun things. I just went through my family album and pulled out the stuff and then we put together these cool videos. So it's not just all work and no play. It's just a fun channel where I want people who may be interested in copywriting to see what it's like and then get a taste of it and then decide. If this is what you want to do, well, then you gotta step it up and go to the next level and get yourself some training so that you can be good at this in this amazing career that can do a lot of things for your life. Rob Marsh:  So before we move on and talk about all this stuff, I want to go back to how it all kicked off with the tribute to Clayton. Last time we talked, which was episode, I think, like 189, we actually called the episode, My Life as a 50 Year Old Man. And you told the story of working with Clayton and what an influence he was. And so I just would love; because I think this is an amazing resource... We talk a little bit about the tribute that you did, the people who spoke. We don't necessarily have to talk about all of the topics because people can go back and watch, but there were some really amazing lessons from that could benefit all copywriters. Carline Anglade-Cole:  Absolutely, absolutely. That tribute... I'm telling you, someone said to me, "Carline, you could sell this thing for thousands of dollars and they would still be too cheap." And what was nice was that everyone just came with their personal story, their personal how Clayton touched their lives and then tied it into copywriting. So I recommend if anyone has not seen it yet, this is a way to get to know Clayton Makepeace, the master copywriter that he was through the eyes of his students and his colleagues throughout his 40-plus-year career. I mean, I got Gary Bencivenga to come out of retirement. Kira Hug:  Oh, wow. Carline Anglade-Cole:  He came out of retirement because when he heard I was doing it, he's like, "I'm in, Carline." And I'm like, "Oh, thank you so much." And- Rob Marsh:  Yeah, when I saw Gary, I'm like, "Oh man, he's like the dream person to come on the podcast." Right? And he doesn't do it for anybody. You and I think Brian Kurtz are about the only people who've ever gotten him out of retirement. That is amazing. Carline Anglade-Cole:  And the thing is, Brian had to ask Gary to come out of retirement. Gary asked me. Rob Marsh:  There you go. Carline Anglade-Cole:  So I was teased about that, but no, it was just...

Tyler J. McCall guests on the 275th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Tyler is an Instagram Marketing Strategist and Coach for entrepreneurs who want to build and grow their business online. With social media being at the forefront of so many businesses, Tyler shares his experience dealing with burnout and how entrepreneurs can use social media more intentionally. Take a peek at our conversation: Why Tyler founded onlinebusinessowner.com. How his nonprofit careers kickstarted his entrepreneurial endeavors and how he became the go-to Instagram marketing expert. Should you leave the community you’ve become accustomed to? How to find the right coach and community for you, your business, and your values. The process of healing from a previous business and starting another. Why it’s a good idea to unlearn old beliefs before jumping into something new. How to deal with harassment online – actions and steps to take. Repairing your reputation online – is it possible? The double edged sword of social media. How do you know if you’re burned out + how to fix it. The future of social media and how to not lose yourself in it. The potential of podcasting and the forgotten blog… is it still a thing? A guide to unplugging from social media. The reality of starting a media company and how to monetize when your offer is free. The process of building your writer’s muscle. How to regain trust in yourself and your gut feeling. Building a small but mighty team for business growth. If you want to use social media with intention and avoid burnout, tune into the episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Tyler's website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Episode 177 Episode 191 Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  Social media. We've had a lot of people on the show to talk about their approach to Facebook and Instagram, Twitter, Pinterest, LinkedIn. It's almost as if you can't build a copywriting business these days without spending serious time on social media. And while that may not be strictly true, you can, but it's becoming less and less common. Our guest for today's podcast is Tyler J. McCall. Tyler's gone through a bit of a transition when it comes to using social media for his business over the last few months. It used to be the main focus and now it's not. And if you struggle with social media as a business building tool, or you're interested in using it in a more sustainable way, you'll want to stick around for this interview. Tyler also shared how he's reinvented his entire business over the last year, how to deal with trolls and people that are harassing you online and overcoming burnout. Like we said, you're not going to want to miss this one. Kira Hug:  Before we dive into our interview with Tyler, the sponsor for this week's episode is the Copywriter Think Tank. It's our mastermind coaching program that helps copywriters dive deeper and explore ideas they didn't think were possible and act on them. We're introducing two new coaches inside the Think Tank who focus on systems and mindset, so members have the opportunity to ask for support from multiple coaches. If you are looking to create a new offer or program, product, scale your income, maybe launch a book, maybe launch a podcast, the Think Tank could be your next step to making it happen. If you want more information, head over to copywriterthinktank.com to learn more. All right, let's get into the interview and learn how Tyler ended up as the founder of onlinebusinessowner.com. Tyler J. McCall:  I'll give you the shortest version possible. I left my nonprofit career back in 2015 to start my own online business after having a bunch of side hustles before that. And the first business I started was a marketing agency with a really close friend. And that's where I really started learning about online business and running my own business full time. And eventually that marketing agency, we started specializing in Instagram marketing, and then I became a go-to Instagram marketing for local businesses, and then I started coaching and consulting. And then in 2017, I took all that experience and knowledge and all of my experience from the nonprofit world. I was also a political and community organizer before that, and put that into my first membership site called Follower to Fan Society. And at the time of recording this episode, beginning of 2022, Follower to Fan Society is almost over. We have just a few more months left of delivering content and coaching in that community and then we're closing it forever. So a four year old membership which, I don't know about y’all, feels like, I don't know, decades in the online business world, with how fast things change and people change their businesses. But that's what I've done for the past four years. I've been an Instagram marketing strategist in the online space. I really enjoyed that. I worked specifically with online business owners, creatives, makers, artists were really the folks that we served through Follower to Fan. And in 2020 and 2021 everything kind of changed in the world and a lot changed for me personally, as far as what was really important to me and what I wanted to do in my business. So for the past couple of years, I've been digging through all of that and figuring out the next step And I left a coaching community I've been part of for a number of years which had turned really toxic. And I left that in 2020, and I've just been spending the past couple years kind of healing and learning new things, and unlearning a lot of stuff. And in October 2021, we launched our new business, onlinebusinessowner.com. And I have to say, it's the happiest I've ever been in my business. It brings me the most joy of anything I've ever done and I feel like it's the best use of my skills. And this is something I could see myself doing for a long time, whereas things before I was just kind of doing them until I didn't have to do them anymore. So that's a little, the two minute version. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. That was like a beautiful table of contents for the, it feels like the whole episode as this thing unfolds, not even knowing what we're going to talk about yet. I'm just like, "Okay, lots of places to jump in." So before we get to the most recent stuff and that's probably going to be the most interesting stuff, I'd love to back up just to when you were starting your own marketing agency, because so many of our listeners are starting their own thing. They're finding their feet. Tell us a little bit about what was going on and why you made the steps that you did, the first couple of clients that you connected with. What was that whole process like? Tyler J. McCall:  Yeah. I love that question because I didn't leave my full-time nonprofit marketing job until I had an established roster of clients, which meant for about eight months, I was burning the wick at both ends and also apologies to the YMCA where I used to work, but my afternoons every now and then may have been spent on a little bit of my own business. And I got my first client actually, it was a gift shop in downtown Asheville, North Carolina, where I was living at the time. And I was a customer of this gift shop. I had gone in there for years. I would go buy gifts and cards. One of my side hustles before my marketing agency is, I had a homemade room and linen fragrance spray that I made called Mr. McCall's Fine Fragrances, which I made at home myself. And they were the first store to ever carry my handmade fragrance company brand that I created. So, they carried that in the store and I had built a relationship with them over years of being a customer. And I had just walked in one day and said, "Hey, I love what you all are doing. I love your store. I know people are obsessed with your brand, but your Instagram makes me really sad. Would you pay me to manage your Instagram account?" And they said, "Oh, sure. What would that look like?" And I was like, "$300 a month. I'll post for you five times a week. I'll come in a few times a month. I'll take photos with my iPhone. I'll write your captions. I'll do the hashtags and I'll do your Instagram for you." And they were like, "Great, fine." And I ran that agency. After I left my nonprofit job, I ran that agency for about three years and they stayed on until the very end. They were my very last client. They were no longer paying $300 a month at the very end, we had upgraded some things, but they were my first client. And from there, I just used my connections and relationships and started getting more and more clients, and getting people on six month retainer contracts to do content creation, management, blogging, newsletter writing. Also, here's the other secret Rob and Kira, at this point I actually didn't know what the hell I was doing. I was fully making it up as I went along, but that's how I started. And I just built an agency from there. Kira Hug:  I want to jump forward in time to 2020, 2021, when you said that you really wanted to shift and focus on what was important to you. You left a community at that time. It sounds like that was a really important step for you. Can you talk a little bit more about that stage and what steps do you take when you realize this doesn't feel right, I'm not in the right places, I'm not doing the right thing, how do you start to move forward from there? Tyler J. McCall:  Yeah. It's a really good question. There were a few things that were happening for me at that stage. One being, I realized that the values that I had, my personal values, the values in my business, were not aligned with the values in the community that I had been a part of and this coach that I had learned from. And at that point I was in a high ticket mastermind, spending $30,

Charlotte Davis is our guest for the 284th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Charlotte is a Dubsado Strategist and Business Operations Consultant, and in this episode she breaks down the best way copywriters can use systems in their businesses to create a high-level client experience and maximize their time and energy. Here’s how the episode goes down: How Charlotte transitioned from OBM to Dubsado wizard. The difference between OBM (Online Business Manager) and VA (Virtual Assistant), PLUS when you’re ready for each. Are you ready for a Systems Strategist? Why you need to pull your processes out of your head and into a system. What can be automated in Dubsado? The one thing business owners forget or feel awkward doing. Honeybook vs. Dubsado – what’s the dif? Should you set up your own Dubsado or hire an expert? The process of hiring a professional in your business. Best practices for client management while using automation – is it possible? The 3 system standards service providers need to implement into their business ASAP. How automation helps copywriters get out of their own way. The 5 part process to making high-converting proposals. Managing productivity and managing boundaries… Can the two coexist? The method to a better discovery call. How Charlotte manages her team and what she outsources in her business. The mindset that comes with being afraid to do something. Self care practices that keep Charlotte loving what she does and help her manage her energy. The future of the online marketing space means no more cowboys. How Harry Potter and business are the same. If you need clarity around creating systems and processes, be sure to hit the play button or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Kira’s website Rob’s website Charlotte Isaac's website  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Episode 44 Episode 207   Full Transcript: Kira Hug:  We've noticed a growing trend in the copywriting space. More and more copywriters are up-leveling their systems and creating automated client experiences that far surpass the somewhat sloppy back and forth that typically takes place in the inbox. Today's guest for The Copywriter Club podcast is system specialist, Charlotte Isaac, and she lets us look under the hood of her business. We nerd out on automations, Dubsado, and client management. So if you're trying to automate the processes in your business and maybe, just maybe you'd like to hear Charlotte's number one business lesson from Harry Potter, you won't want to miss this episode. Rob Marsh:  I'm feeling attacked Kira, based off that intro. I'm the guy with the sloppy back and forth in the inbox. If you're listening to this podcast on the day that it was released, that means that we are currently in Nashville at The Copywriter Club In Real Life, hanging out IRL with some of the best copywriters in the world. And we're sharing with them some of the changes that we're making to The Copywriter Think Tank here in the very near future to make it better than ever, like introducing two new coaches to the group. So that members don't just depend on us, but have access to specialists and things like systems and mindset. The Think Tank is our mastermind coaching program that helps copywriters take their business to the next level, whatever that means for you, that might be a larger income number, it could be creating a new program or a new offer for your clients, it could be launching a podcast or writing a book to grow your authority, whatever you are ready to accomplish next, we'll help you do it in The Copywriter Think Tank. Go to copywriterthinktank.com to learn more. And let's get to our interview with Charlotte Isaac. Kira Hug:  All right Charlotte, let's kick this off. How did you end up as a business operations consultant? What is your story? Charlotte Isaac:  It's a bit of a roundabout one. Probably like a lot of people in this online space, I worked in creative agencies in my traditional offline job. And when I started my own business, I thought I would do a very similar thing. So I started working as an OBM, I really loved it, but I realized after a while that a lot of people in that space don't really need an OBM, what they need is a really, really solid system to look after them and look after their clients. And once they have that in place, their business can kind of run on autopilot. So I kind of got dragged into it by my clients, I guess. Rob Marsh:  So what were you doing before that? What was the thing that you were working on with clients before you started doing the automations? Charlotte Isaac:  So, I was kind of helping them look after their clients and look after their team members and basically hold everything together in their business. Kind of like an operations manager. Kira Hug:  Okay. So can you just talk through all the differences? Because I think, especially if someone hasn't worked with an OBM, can you differentiate between a VA, an OBM, business operations, developer, all the terms that are thrown out there, can you talk through them? Rob Marsh:  Yeah, I think that's the question I meant to ask. You said it so much better than I did, Kira. Kira Hug:  I always do, Rob. Charlotte Isaac:  Girl power! It's really confusing. Everyone kind of uses a different name and it would be so helpful if there was a bit of a standardization out there, but a VA essentially helps you with tasks and an OBM can manage your VA and manage other team members and basically hold all your business together. So in some ways, they hold all of the people below you together. Rob Marsh:  Knowing that then let's talk about, as copywriters, as business owners if we're thinking, "Okay, I need help in my business." Help us do the decision tree. When should it be the VA, when should it be an OBM, and when should it be a system specialist specifically doing the kind of work that you're doing today? Charlotte Isaac:  I think it depends where you're spending a lot of your time. It's super old school, but I often recommend when people are trying to figure it out, to walk away from their computer, grab a notebook and a pen and start writing out all of the things that frustrate them, that take them a lot of time, and that they feel like they drop balls on. So if it's a lot of things like chasing out my clients for homework, sending out invoices, sending proposals, all of that kind of stuff, that can be really easily systemized. If it's stuff like scheduling social media posts and things like that, a VA or somebody could be good. If it's a little bit of everything, sometimes an OBM is a great fit to help you kind of guide, do you need a system specialist or do you need to plug in a VA eventually. There are so many things it could be. Kira Hug:  But again, you're not an OBM at this point, right? You're in your own category? Charlotte Isaac:  Yeah. I would fall into the system specialist category, I guess. Kira Hug:  Okay. Charlotte Isaac:  The very loose categories we have. Kira Hug:  Okay. All right. So then let's say we're working with you. Let's say I'm a copywriter and I'm working with you for the first time to set up systems. Where do I start with my system development? If I'm not a systems-minded person, and I'm not, Rob knows this, I like to use my paper and notepad and stay away from systems, but I also understand the value of them. Where would you start with someone like me who's just not systems friendly? Charlotte Isaac:  So firstly, again, I'd walk away from the computer and we would have a chat around what things look like right now. So what do you do to look after your clients, what your process is, what's working and what's not working? And we kind of come up with this giant list of things that need to happen from the very beginning of a client relationship when they reach out to you or someone kind of refers them to you or however that looks like right through to when the work is done and you need to off-board them and maybe invite them to come back to you as a client in the future. So we get all of that out on paper before we start looking at systems. And I find that even the people that are most shy of systems, once we do that, they realize that they probably really need a system because there is so much that happens in that entire process. Rob Marsh:  So, can we go just even a little deeper in that? I know we've sort of got this topical idea of what you're going to be asking about, but again, I'm almost saying, let's do this exercise with me or with Kira and me. Kira Hug:  Just with you, Rob. Just with you. Rob Marsh:  As we sit down, it's like, are you going into every single piece of the business? Are there general categories? How many bullet points end up on that list of things that you want to systematize? Charlotte Isaac:  It's a little bit never ending. So with my own clients, I tend to focus on the client management side of things. We do dip into other things and kind of touch on other systems that they might need to employ, but my focus is really on the client management side of things. So the first question I ask, because you're in the guinea pig group, is how people find you and what happens when they find you? Rob Marsh:  Okay. So mostly it's going to be through referrals or maybe it's through something I've put out on LinkedIn or social media or something like that. Charlotte Isaac:  Awesome. And then do you have a chat with them once they've been connected with you? Some kind of discovery call? Rob Marsh:  Yes. For sure. There may be some communication and email before that, but we definitely have a discovery call before we book anything. Charlotte Isaac:  Amazing.

Angie Federico joins The Copywriter Club Podcast for its 283rd episode. Angie is a direct response copywriter who’s been in both the freelance and agency world of marketing. Her ability to craft open-worthy pitches and close sales calls are just a few qualities that make her a great copywriter and marketer. If you need a pick-me-up when it comes to your skills in selling yourself, tune into the episode. Here’s how the conversation goes: How Angie went from selling life insurance to her start in affiliate marketing. The difference between selling online vs in person. How copywriting became the key to virtual selling. Can you gain clients on Reddit? The key to being great at sales and how to improve your own skills. What even is affiliate marketing? The beginnings of getting good at copywriting… for free. Creating a referral system that sustains itself. How to write a sales pitch that gets read and responded to. Figuring out who you want to pitch and helping your prospect solve a problem. The difference between the acquisition and retention side of a funnel. Why you need to send bad pitches and get rejected. How to pitch with intent. Sales calls – how do you get your prospect to grab their credit card on the call? The benefits of getting upfront payments from your potential clients. The step by step breakdown of Angie’s sales call process. How to set expectations right off the bat with new clients and community effectively. Agency life vs freelance life. What’s it all about? How to manage your energy and keep yourself balanced while working in an agency. Kicking imposter syndrome and anxious feelings to the curb, so you can step into your confidence. Hit the play button or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club In Real Life Event Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Connect with Angie Episode 6 Episode 223   Full Transcript:

Jason Pickar makes his second appearance on the 282nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Jason talks how the last few years have changed and his route to becoming a VP Creative Director. If you’re wondering what it would be like to work in an agency or need advice from a pro, be sure to check out the episode. Here’s what we cover: The changes in the agency space for both copywriters and creative directors. What’s involved in being the creative director for an agency. Teams that make-up an agency and the pace of working for one. The process of getting copy written, edited, cleared, and ready to go live. How to write for fans of a brand. The difference between various generations’ style of writing and crafting copy based on different perspectives. How quick service restaurants are pushing the app experience through a loyalty program and celeb advertisement. The psychology that brings people back into the app. The key to balancing brand voice and direct response language. How to create a narrative of friendship in your writing style. Jason’s biggest wins with Mcdonald’s rewards and the use of the app. The best way to get the attention of a creative director and HR in an agency. What makes a copywriter stand out on the team? The benefits of working for and with an agency. The future of copywriting – where is it headed? Hit the play button or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club In Real Life Event Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Jason's LinkedIn Episode 115 Episode 198 Episode 34 Connect with Jenn   Full Transcript:

Rob and Kira take the mic for the 281st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. In this episode, they walk through what makes TCC… TCC. Through an introspection of beliefs and celebrating what the last 5 years have brought, they challenge everyone listening to do the same thing for their own business. Take a sneak peek: The core belief of The Copywriter Club. No one owns a niche, specialty, or title and why this is a good thing. How to use your x-factor to differentiate yourself from the sea of others in your niche. The golden rule of investing and how to effectively use it in your business. Paid mentors vs free mentors – is one better than the other? How to keep the momentum moving in your business. Outgrowing your title and shifting into a new one. How to find the best way for YOU to grow your authority. The importance of not comparing your goals to someone else’s. How masterminds are like buffets – yes, the food kind. The growth that comes with being the dumbest person in the room. Do you have a sales problem or a marketing problem? How you can do more good in the world and become a change agent. Why it’s good practice to treat your business like an experiment. How the red pen will increase your confidence. The value of stretching yourself beyond your comfort zone. How you can help TCC reach a million downloads. Hit the play button below or check out the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club In Real Life Event Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  This week's episode of the podcast is going to be a little bit different. Every 10 episodes or so, Kira and I, we get together and we just share stuff that's not interview based and we've been wanting to do this for quite a while. So we're going to talk about some of the things that we believe. That we believe around copywriting and around the importance of the work that we do and maybe some of the ideas that hold together The Copywriter Club. Does that sound about right to you Kira? Kira Hug:  Yeah, like you said, this is something we haven't done before, so I'm not sure how this is going to turn out, but I'm excited to see what happens. Rob Marsh:  We could easily find out that we totally disagree on what we both believe. Kira Hug:  That's true. Rob Marsh:  Yeah so, it'll be interesting to see, because we have not really talked through this at all before hopping on to record, we just came up with our own lists and now let's share them. Before we share them though, we should say, like always, our podcast is sponsored by something and this week it is TCC IRL The Copywriter Club, In Real Life, it's happening in Nashville in just a couple of weeks, March 28th through the 30th and it is an awesome event. If you don't have a ticket, there are a few tickets left and you can come and join us. Kira Hug:  Yes. And can I share the new excitement with what we just decided? Rob Marsh:  This is good. Kira Hug:  So, we just decided that we want to help the refugees in Ukraine. And so we are going to find an organization that we both feel like is legit it and doing great work. And 10% of the profit from TCC IRL will go towards a specific organization, which is TBD, but we will figure it out soon. It feels like a good way to do something when it feels like there aren't many things we can do, this is one thing we can do. So we're excited to do that. If you do purchase a ticket, at least that part of that is going towards an organization that's doing great work in Ukraine and supporting people. Rob Marsh:  Yep. That's maybe a small way that we can make a difference for a lot of people that are being very significantly impacted by the war. Kira Hug:  Yes. So let's kick off with some of your beliefs. And again, these are TCC beliefs, but it's fun because Rob, we both have our own beliefs that bleed into TCC and if we disagree, we'll talk about it. Rob Marsh:  So, I know this is one that we both hold in common because we talk about it a lot, but number one, community over competition. If you've been around The Copywriter Club for any length of time, you realize that we really do value this community and bringing people together who may be incredibly different in so many ways and having this thing, copywriting, marketing that we have in common and a place where we can share ideas, enjoy each other's company, get to know each other's shared leads, talk about this stuff from maybe even completely opposite worldviews, but valuing the community and not looking at everybody else around us thinking, oh my gosh these are other copywriters, they're the people that they're going to be pitching my clients as well. We can help each other. We can help each other grow even when we are working with similar clients. And so number one, community over competition. Kira Hug:  Yeah. And has that shown up for you in your business Rob, just like where you have maybe viewed people as competitors and then you've changed that mindset and there's been a positive outcome. Rob Marsh:  For sure. For sure. I think for the whole first decade or two of working, I would think of other copywriters as the competition, not necessarily like cutthroat, I've got to take them down or whatever, but sharing leads, would've been the kind of thing I'm like, why would I give away a lead to somebody who now they're going to be making money or helping this client, why wouldn't I hold onto all of this? And even maybe things that I know about copy writing, why would I help you learn to write bullets if that's going to make you better than me and now you're going to be able to take away my clients. I might not have taken that same approach, but I don't know if it's maturity, I don't know if it's just that I started joining mastermind groups or meeting you or what it was that really shifted that for me, but surrounding yourself with people who can be helpful, supportive, it's so much a better approach than trying to take on the world all by myself. What about you? Kira Hug:  I was just going to say like, you and I are actually very competitive with each other. We joke around about it and it's mostly playful, but it's also okay to be really competitive if that's who you are, if how you operate best. I operate in a competitive way when I need to get stuff done, but that doesn't mean I view every other copywriter out there and creative out there as competition, but I can play with it and have fun. I almost set up my own gaming system to help me get the results I want in my business. And so I think you can have it both ways, but I do agree with what you've said and we have said it before, the copywriters we see do the best, typically in our programs seem to have this mindset shift somewhere along the way where they form more partnerships and see the upside rather than the downside. Rob Marsh:  Yeah, for sure. Okay. So what's the number one thing on your list? Kira Hug:  Well, I'm going to jump in here because this yours bleeds into this next one for me, which is similar, but we believe you should pursue an idea, a niche, a specialty, even a title even if someone you respect is already working in that space and "owning" it, or has that title already. And I'm sharing that because when we are viewing other copywriters as collaborators and we're in community with them, what often and happens is that we don't want to disrespect other copywriters because we love them so much and we hold ourselves back from pursuing what we want to pursue, because we oftentimes think, well that person's already doing it or like, I can't be this brand specialist because so and so already owns that. And so we believe no one owns any of that and we've said that before, we'll say it again. Of course, don't actually copy, steal or cheat your way into building your business, we all know that. But don't be your own barrier. Don't hold yourself back, don't get in your own way. And that's just something that I think is really important and it comes up so frequently in our conversations with copywriters behind the scenes and a good way to think about it is just like, there is not just one orthodontist in the world who specializes in fixing teeth, there is not just one dermatologist just who specializes in skin diseases. And so, there is not just one copywriter who can specialize in whatever that problem is. There's more than enough opportunity and so hopefully you aren't holding yourself back if there's something that you really want to own, but you're afraid to own it. Rob Marsh:  Yeah, like you said, we see this all the time where people will say, I can't talk about conversion copywriting because somebody else is already... I learned that from Joanna or I picked it up from this other source or I can't talk about brand voice or website copy or this approach to email because somebody else is already doing it. And I really like your comparison to the orthodontist. It's not just there's more than one orthodontist fixing teeth, there's probably more than one orthodontist in your neighborhood that's doing it. The world is so big and there's so much space and I think this is one area where nicheing really helps because if you're talking about email copy or brand voice or whatever, to your niche, as opposed to insular group of copywriters like us, this is all new information to most of those people and it's helpful to all of those people. And if you hold back because somebody else got there first, your niche isn't going to hear about this thing. And so yeah, I 100% agree. If you feel passionate about some area of your business, talk about it. Talk about it in your way, create your own ideas around it, talk about it using your own unique stories, maybe even create a framework around it and talk about it your way.

For the 280th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re joined by Launch Copywriter Ash Chow. Ash helps her clients strategize for pre-launch and breaks down why it’s such an essential part of your overall launch strategy. Tune into the episode to tap into your next launch strategy. Tune into the conversation: Having a “is this really my life?” moment and completely shifting gears. How a quarterlife crisis can be a pivotal time in life. The pull to do something greater and make a big impact. The stigma around being a certain age before starting a business or pivoting your career. Navigating feelings of low self worth and shame. How copywriters are constantly scrutinized and how to not internalize feedback from clients. Why validation can be an important part of working through difficult situations. How to respect your boundaries when you’re a people pleaser. Using the comments by that mean girl in high school or an unencouraging teacher to ignite your creativity. Why you need to train your clients on how to communicate with you – you have to lead by example. How to write more empathetic copy even if you’re not going through the same situations. (Lean heavily on your VOC research) The shifts and pivots Ash has made in her career as a copywriter. How Ash has built her authority and visibility by leaning into pre-launch strategy. Ash’s framework to power up your pre-launch. How to address objections as part of your pre-launch strategy. Mistakes to avoid in your pre-launch strategy and what to do instead. How Ash helped with the Accelerator pre-launch. How to create your own stage to speak on. If you’ve been wondering how you can power up your launches with a pre-launch strategy, listen to the episode or check out the transcription below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club In Real Life Event Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Connect with Ash Episode 67 Episode 143   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  We've interviewed several recovering attorneys on this podcast. All of them got through law school only to realize that the law wouldn't be the fulfilling career that they once thought it would be. And the pull towards creativity and writing is just too strong for these folks. So they answered the call to be a copywriter. Our guest, for this episode of the Copywriter Club podcast is another recovering attorney and think tank member, Ash Chow. Since graduating from law school, she's thrown herself into writing everything from fanfiction to launch copy. And today she's known as the expert in pre-launch copy and strategy. All of the stuff that you need to do before a launch to make sure that it's a success. She knows so much about this, that we focused most of our discussion on the topic of prelaunch strategy. Kira Hug:  Before we dive into our conversation with Ash, this episode is sponsored by the Copywriter Club in Real Life. So that's her are in person event happening March 28th through 30th in Nashville, Tennessee. The room is filling up and it can only hold a certain number of people because it's a boutique hotel. So there are spots left if you want to join us. I am very excited to hang out with people in real life again, since it's been two. And I just, I miss it. I miss people. Rob Marsh:  We haven't even seen each other in two years. Kira Hug:  That's true. This is the first time Rob and I... I feel like I see you all the time, but you're right. We haven't touched each other. Rob Marsh:  Not that we do a whole lot of touching. Kira Hug:  We haven't hugged each other and just like high fived and all those more appropriate things. We haven't done that in two years. And so this is going to be so much fun. We have incredible speakers now that we've nearly finished the lineup speakers like Mike Kim, Raven Douglas, Brigitte Lyons, Ash Chow, Jude Charles, Linda Perry, John Mulry, Brian Speronello, and so many more. And we're planning lots of fun activities, social activities. I'm feeling really excited. So if you have any interest and you just want to check it out, possibly travel to Nashville to join us, we will link to additional information in the show notes. Rob Marsh:  Now let's jump into our interview with copywriter and pre-launch strategist Ash Chow. Ash Chow:  Like most copywriters I was someone who was super creative as a kid. I really loved reading. I got straight As in all of my English subjects and I low key wanted to be an author. But as I got older, I got a lot more practical and it did feel like my creativity really got stamped out of me. But pretty much at the age of 15, I was super inspired by like all the legal dramas I was watching at the time. And I really wanted to work hard and get into a really good career, which at the time I believed was being a lawyer. So I pretty much at the age of 15, I was like, "Okay, that's it. I am going to go to law school." So I worked my butt off. I studied really hard. I wanted to get into like one of the best law schools in Melbourne, Australia. And I did, I hit that goal, I got in and I was like super excited only to get there and realize like this isn't it. This isn't actually where I wanted to be or what I wanted to do, which was really distressing when it was a goal I had worked so hard for, like ever since I was mid teens pretty much. And what kicked it off was halfway through law school, I managed to get like a legal internship. And one of my tasks at the time was to like read through all of this email correspondence between our competing law firms. And lawyers, they tend to write in a really pretentious way or at least like all the things I was reading it came on as very pretentious lots of jargon, lots of unnecessarily... Lots of complex, big words. And I remember I was just reading this email and being like, "Oh my goodness this is what I'm going to have to do for the rest of my life." And that was like a super distressing moment. And around that time as well, my creative itch had started to come back and all I wanted to do was just start writing again, and telling stories and being real with people. Instead of writing pretentious emails. Like most copywriters again, I think words of affirmation is like my big love language. And when I was going through like a really dark and tough time when I was younger words of encouragement, and reading other people's personal stories was what really helped me through that tough time. So, I had like this urge or this like calling to want to be that for someone else. I wanted to write words that were going to help other people through a messy time feel less alone and like they were going to be okay. So I started a blog and I started like writing a bunch of personal essays, documenting this mini quarter life existential crisis. I was going through and sharing how, I didn't know if I wanted to just persist with law school or start a side hustle and all of that. And that blog post ended up landing in front of a business owner who really resonated with my writing. And she reached out to me and she was like, "Hey, can I hire you to write for me?" And that's when I discovered copywriting was a thing and that you could get paid decent money to write, and the rest is history. Rob Marsh:  So, I have a couple of small questions kind of to pepper in through your story. When you wanted to be an author, what did you want to write? Ash Chow:  I think I wanted to write lots of fiction. So I was a really big fan of Enid Blyton, I think when I was a kid. So she wrote like the Magic Faraway Tree and all of these stories about like fairies and wooded creatures being able to talk. And I was like, oh my goodness. I want to write these sorts of stories. And then obviously my tastes evolved as I got older. I wanted to write a lot of like young adult sort of stuff. You know what's funny, I had a Wattpad and I wrote... This is really embarrassing. I wrote this Harry Potter fanfiction story on Wattpad that ended up winning like an award. That was the sort of stuff I was writing. I mean, I don't want to write fanfiction anymore no way, but it really... That just reminded me I really did want to become a writer when I was younger, so yeah. Rob Marsh:  That's hilarious. That's awesome. Ash Chow:  It's so hilarious. Rob Marsh:  And then did you finish law school before you made the switch over to copywriting? Or did you just opt out and say, "Nope, I'm done." Ash Chow:  Yeah. Yes I did. I did. I always joked that I would've been like disowned if I hadn't finished law school. I was in my third year when I started copywriting, it was like my third year out of a five year degree. So I'd already invested all of this time into it. And I was like I might as well finish it off. So I do have the fancy piece of paper that says bachelor of laws. So yes. Kira Hug:  Can you talk, Ash, a little bit about just that knowing that you're talking about. How did you know that path that you wanted for yourself wasn't actually it. Beyond reading the copy and the emails that were really pretentious and just being like that doesn't resonate with me. Was there something else within you that just helped that wasn't for you? Ash Chow:  Yeah, it was this really strong gut feeling. I just couldn't stop thinking about how this wasn't what I wanted to do and how... It was more like I wanted to make a bigger impact in the world, which sounds really corny, but it was like I didn't feel that I could achieve that by just being a lawyer. So like I said I really wanted to be able to share some of the stuff I had gone through so that I could help other people who were in a really dark time get through that as well. And I felt like I couldn't do that as a lawyer, but I could do that if I had my own platform. And around that time,

For the 279th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’ve got not one… but 4 guests jumping on the show. You’ll hear the familiar voices of Jude Charles, Justin Blackman, and Ash Chow as they chat about their experiences with both TCCIRL and (N)IRL. Thinking about joining the party? Here’s what it’s all about: The first impression of TCCIRL – are copywriters really weird? The experiences you can expect to have at your first or even second and third IRL event. Are A-listers real people? The importance of being able to build relationships outside of your computer screen. Being introverted and going to a social event… how does it work? First look at topics you’ll be tuning into at this year’s event. How to leverage TCCIRL in your life and business once the event is over. Dealing with burnout at different levels and how to maneuver it. How much can happen in a short period of time and not forgetting to sit in moments of accomplishment. Which guest nailed 57 podcasts because of TCCIRL? How TCCIRL gives you a boost of energy when you need it – even after it’s over. Can you be in the right and wrong room at the same time? Embracing our awkward quirks and being confident in our empathy. Where do you want to be in a year from now? How has the copywriting and marketing landscape changed over the last year? Why is 2022 the best time to be a small business owner in this space? The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club In Real Life Event Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Episode 216 with Justin Blackman Episode 217 with Jude Charles Connect with Ash Connect with Justin Connect with Jude   Full Transcript: Kira Hug:  The Copywriter Club in Real Life is coming up fast, in only five weeks. And in today's episode, our guests include this year's presenters and think tank members, Ash Chow and Justin Blackman and returning repeat presenter, Jude Charles. Rob is out of town this week, so my co-host today is one of our team members from The Copywriter Club, Rosie Bynum, our client relationship and event manager. Rosie, thanks for joining me as a co-host today. Rosie Bynum:  Thank you. I'm excited to be here and I'm excited to talk about the next event coming up, our big one for the year, TCCIRL, that is The Copywriter Club in Real Life. TCCIRL is taking over the in-person stage this year in Nashville, Tennessee, March 28 through 30th. And that is coming up pretty quickly. It is a two-and-a-half-day event where you'll hear from other copywriters and marketers about the best tools and strategies you can use to grow your business, skills, and mindset. Getting connected with some of the best minds in the space is the cherry on top. Space is limited, so be sure to grab your ticket as soon as possible. If you'd like more information, head over to thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl-2022. We'll link it in the show notes as well. Kira Hug:  And space is really limited as in we only have a certain number of tickets left because the venue can only hold 200 people. And so, when we say that we actually mean it, is not just marketing speak. So get your tickets if you do want to be there, we want to make sure you have a seat. And now let's jump into the conversation with Jude, Ash, and Justin. All right, today, we're going to kick this off with a very special episode with some special guests. Today we're going to talk about TCCIRL and also the way that the copywriting and marketing landscape has changed over the last few years. And so, I want to kick this off with my co-host and then we're going to go around the room and everyone will get a chance to introduce yourselves. So, Rosie, why don't you kick it off as my co-host today? Because we kicked Rob Marsh out, you are going to co-host. Why don't you introduce yourself? Rosie Bynum:  Hi, everybody. Yes, my name is Rosie. You might know me from emails that have come your way or if you've been in any of our programs, the Accelerator or the Think Tank or in Underground. I've been with The Copywriter Club now for... I think this fall will be my third-year anniversary with Kira and Rob. I started out as a general VA and now I guess I would be a project manager/event manager. I love it, I wouldn't have it any other way. Kira Hug:  All right, thanks Rosie. We're going to just go around the room. If you can just introduce yourself and share your elevate pitch, I don't know. Start with the elevator pitch and we'll go from there. So Jude, can you kick this off? Jude Charles:  Sure. I am Jude Charles. I am the filmmaker who always seems to find his way into The Copywriter Club. So yeah, I'm a filmmaker. I create documentaries for entrepreneurs. I went to the first TCCIRL in 2018, I believe, so I'm in OG, and looking forward to being at the next one in Nashville. Kira Hug:  All right, thanks, Jude. Let's see, let's go to Ash. Ash Chow:  Hey, everyone. I'm Ash Chow, and I am a launch strategist and conversion copywriter for online entrepreneurs who want to sell their digital products on repeat. I am based in Melbourne, Australia, so I am super excited to be doing a long haul flight over to the US just for this conference. It's going to be my first trip, so I'm really excited to have my first TCCIRL and my first trip to the States coincide. Kira Hug:  And we are so excited to see you in person Ash, finally, to meet you in person. All right, thanks, Ash. Justin, who are you? Justin Blackman:  Nobody really knows. I am a mystery wrapped in a Kit Kat bar. I am a brand voice expert and overall writer of weird things and analyser patterns. I don't even know what to call myself anymore, but I'm a great big mess. I'm the duckbill platypus of copywriters. Kira Hug:  Okay, well, we'll probably dig into that later and try to dig into the hot mess that you are. Okay, great, I appreciate- Rosie Bynum:  I like it. All right, I think that my first question for each of you is, what was your first impression from your first IRL event. Maybe Jude, since you're an OG, you could start. Jude Charles:  Like I said, I'm the filmmaker that came into the room and it was just like, "Why am I here?" My only experience with copywriters at that time was The Copywriter Club Podcast, and I think my very first impression when I walked into the room is that these people aren't as weird as I thought they would be. No, you guys are very welcoming, and I think even though I felt out of place, I also felt at home. One thing I loved about the first TCCIRL that I had never experienced at any other conference, and I had gone to conferences before then, was that during lunchtime there would be a group of us... Each day was different, but there would be a group of us, five, at the most maybe six, where we would have lunch together and then we would get to know each other better that way, and I really like that. I think there was even one night, might have been the first night, that we did dinner together, and I enjoyed that as well. And so, I think for me, the first TCCIRL was all about feeling welcomed into the community. Of course, there was learning. I had been hearing about Parris Lampropoulos for such a long time, but then finally got to see him in person. He's such a great presenter too. And yeah, those were all my first impressions. It was an amazing experience, and that's why I haven't missed one ever since. Rosie Bynum:  I love that. I do think the community is one of the first things that made me fall in love with The Copywriter Club as well. Justin, also OG, would you like to tell us about your first impression? Justin Blackman:  Yeah, I was blown away by how accessible everybody was. My first IRL, I was a nobody. Well, I had written a headline project, so I had some cred, but not compared to the A-listers that were walking into the room. I remember just being in the hotel lobby just hanging out and all of a sudden Joanna Wiebe and Ry Schwartz walk in together. I was just starstruck. Went over, said hi to Ry, and he's like, "Yeah, cool. No, awesome, let's go have a beer." It was just immediate bonding. There was no attitude. Everybody was just on the same level and happy to be there and excited to meet new people. And some of those people to this day are still great friends and I never would've ever thought that I would be on their level. Rosie Bynum:  That's so cool. Hey, Ry. You want to get a beer? Man, so neat. Ash, I know your first one was last year with things being a little bit different in 2021. We went virtual for the first time. Can you tell me a little bit about what you thought about, I guess, that conference and that experience? Ash Chow:  Yeah. So like you said, my first IRL was a lot different than Jude and Justin's. It was virtual because we were all still navigating post pandemic life. I think I personally was in the middle of a lockdown as well. So it was really great to have that virtual opportunity because I was still able to meet a whole bunch of copywriters, just not literally in real life but still across the screen. I remember there was a speed networking session at the start. So it was literally like speed dating for copywriters, and then we would all have 15 minutes before someone would press a button and we'd all get randomly matched with someone else. I have to say, even though that was low-key overwhelming for an introvert like me, even just spending those 15 minutes with some existing faces that I knew and even some new copywriters really did help me make a lot of connections with people I wouldn't have otherwise. And also, being on the other side of the world, the conference literally happened overnight for me, like during my overnight for three days. So I was so excited for it, I prepped by sleeping all day so that I could stay up all three nights, but it was so worth it,