The Copywriter Club Podcast

Laura Sprinkle is our guest for the 278th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Laura is an affiliate partnerships strategist and has worked with people like Amy Porterfield, Selena Soo, and Todd Herman. Launching can be challenging, but adding an affiliate program could give your launch the eyes it deserves to increase sales and reach. Laura breaks it down like this: Laura’s fascination with the ability to sell what you create. Early beginnings as a health coach and how she transitioned to the marketing side of business. How she bumped into big names like Selena Soo and Todd Herman – you never know who you know. What’s working in the launch space vs what isn’t. How to elevate your VIP experience with clients to make deeper connections. Why it’s important to focus on prelaunch – and guidelines on how to make it work. The differences in each style of launch and knowing which is right for you. Deciding what you want to be known for. Navigating multiple offers and how to not dilute or confuse your audience. The importance of content and media repurposing. The benefits of being an affiliate for a program – and how to express that to affiliates. How to find good affiliate partners through the rings of recruitment. Are affiliate partnerships for first time launchers? How to build relationships and network without the aim of just getting something out of it using the 4 wins exercise. Affiliate program best practices… and what to avoid. How her team is set up to help her attain maximum productivity and function. Money mindset – being expensive but worth it. How to reframe failure to raise your rates. Tune into the episode and learn how to implement affiliate marketing into your business. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club In Real Life Event Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Laura’s starter kit Episode 124 Episode 239 Jonnie’s website    Full Transcript: Kira:  You know you've got a great offer to sell and it's been proven to do well and get your clients results. But now you're looking to expand your reach and help even more people. On this episode of The Copywriter Club, podcast, affiliate marketing expert, Laura Sprinkle, joins us to walk through what it takes to create a successful marketing strategy and how to utilize affiliate marketing to get your offer in the hands of other people's audiences. Joining me today is a very special guest, Jonnie Stellar. Jonnie is one of the most talented copywriters I have worked with. I've worked with Jonnie on many different projects over the years. Jonnie has written copy for TCC. And his most recently worked with a big marketing agency. So, thank you, Jonnie for joining me today and cohosting. I appreciate it. Jonnie:  Absolutely. I'm so excited to have dusted off my podcast mic that I never used. Yeah. It's such a pleasure to be here again with you, Kira, for the second time I've been on the podcast. Kira:  Yes. All right. So, before Jonnie, we jump in, I'm just going to share our sponsor, TCCIRL. This is not anything new. We have our big event coming up. It's coming up fast. So, we are traveling to Nashville, Tennessee on March 28th through 30th. We're going to host our event in person after a hiatus and last year going online. And we're really excited just to see so many writers in one room. We can't wait. And I could read the promotional blurb in front of me. But I'd rather just ask you, Jonnie, you've been to our event. Can you share what stood out the most to you? Why was it worth it for you to be at TCCIRL? Jonnie:  Yeah. I think I believe I've been to three TCCIRLs of two for sure. First one was in New York and then the second one was most recently last year in, I'm sorry, in 2021 in San Diego. Sorry, if I'm getting my years mixed up. Kira:  It's all a blur. It's all the years are a blur now. Jonnie:  I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that way. Because it's definitely been like just such a huge for the past year and a half. So, I'm kind of getting my wires crossed here. But I do know one thing is for sure, something that really stands out. At least the highlight of some of the past couple of my years of life has absolutely been attending TCCIRL. Everything from walking away with, I mean, stuff you can't read on the internet, stuff that you can't learn anywhere else. And then, the connections that you make with the other copywriters as well. I mean the importance of making these connections that could essentially last you a lifetime. And just as fun. It's like, it was one of the best. And I've been to a lot of copywriter conferences before, by the way, just like marketing conferences. And this stood out for me so much, just because, well, you and Rob were there. And I noted on the podcast forever before I even ever reached out to you. And the way that just the entire event flowed. And you had the best speakers. I mean, even last year, when all the things went down the year before, it was you still had the most incredible speakers that I still follow to this day and that I still get so much value from. And so, I hope I'm not overselling it. But I definitely think that all of us need to get out of the house and just get your butt to TCCIRL this year. Kira:  Yes. All of us need to get out of the house. I agree with that. So, if you are listening to Jonnie and it sounds like something you'd be interested in, you can find out more information and head over to the copywriterclub.com/TCCIRL-2022, and we will link to it in the show notes. So, let's jump into the interview with Laura. Okay. So, we're got to kick off with your story. How did you end up as an affiliate launch strategist? How did you get here where you are today? Laura:  I ended up here well, for a variety of reasons. But I would say that the biggest thing was that I was really, really fascinated with launches and with people getting their ideas out of their head and into the world and the fact that as entrepreneurs, we literally just create things from our minds and then sell them. I just think it's so fascinating. But before that, I was actually a health coach. So, I created a program called She's Got Guts and I had a book, and I was getting it out there, and I made some traction. And I found that when people would ask me about what they should eat and about their health, I really felt uncomfortable answering. I really didn't care that much, not care that much, but I just was like, you need to figure it out for yourself what you should eat. And when I really, really thought about it, I really enjoyed the putting together of the programs and coming up with the marketing strategies and all of that. I didn't care as much about how many carbs you should eat and all of that jazz. So, I went into the marketing side of things. And through that, it was actually Selena Soo. I was working on her launch and she invited me to be her affiliate manager. I didn't really know what that meant, but I knew her launch well. I needed money. I was like, "Sure, let's do it." And really fell in love with it. So, it was just that divine invitation, I guess, to join this world, and that's how I got started. Rob:  So, I love that story. I'm curious, what was the She's Got Guts program? Obviously, there was some of that stuff you didn't like, but what did it promise? What was the transformation? Laura:  Yeah. It's so funny. It's been so many years now. I'm like, "Oh, yeah, what was in that program?" I wrote a book too. I'm like, "What was in that book. I wonder if it's any good." But I talked about gut health primarily. And at the same time, I remember my course being nothing about health. It was a lot about getting in touch with your intuition. It was about following your gut. And it was about how when you dive into your health and when you take care of your belly, which is in the chakras, if you follow chakras at all, but your gut health is really related to your sense of self and your confidence in the world. So, I talked a lot about that as well. Kira:  Okay. I might need the book. Laura:  Here, you think we're talking about affiliates. So, we're got to talk about some gut health right now. Kira:  Different direction today. Sorry, Rob for jumping. Rob:  No. I was just got to ask, as you were launching that, were you doing anything specific? Or obviously, this is your first foray into launching a product or whatever, how did that go, what did that look like? Laura:  Yeah. So, I took B-school. And I put together the program. I spent so many hours I remember on the website and creating graphics and the videos and filming and all of that. And then my quote launch was really, I posted a few times on social media. I think I did like a challenge. And I sent some emails to my pretty small audience. Actually, I also ran Facebook ads. I had no idea what I was doing. But I probably spent $1,000 on ads. And I maybe have 10 people join my program. It was $99. I may be conflating two different versions of this launch. I think I launched it twice. And I say now all the time. If I had known about affiliates, if I had known that partnerships was a thing, I would probably still be doing that because it would have just worked a lot better than what I actually did. Kira:  And I know you mentioned, you met Selena Soo and kind of got started with her. I know, you've also worked with other big names in our space, Amy Porterfield, Todd Herman. Can you just share how did you end up bumping into Selena? And because it's a big client, big name, and so, could you reverse engineer that for anyone listening? Laura:  Yeah, definitely. So, the way I got connected to Selena was I joined Todd Herman's 90-day year program. And at the time, I was having a lot more time on my hands than money, I would say.

Our guest on the 277th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Erin Pennings. Erin is a B2B storyteller and marketing strategist who has nailed a framework to help others write their own websites with ease. Creating a captivating website can be a daunting task (for copywriters and other business owners alike), and Erin reveals how to simplify the process. Here’s how the episode breaks down: The transition from the tourism sector to copywriter. The early days of Facebook and LinkedIn and how Erin used it to her advantage. How where you start may not be where you end up. – Writer beginnings. Steps to finding your x-factor. 2 things that you’ll discover in exploring your x-factor. How to create a framework and processes and how it will help your business. How Erin divides her business into DFY and DWY offers. The process Erin uses to get website copy written in a week. Are live review edits the next big thing? How they can speed up the writing and editing phases. Utilizing a checklist for evaluating website copy. The transition, the struggles, and the mindset blocks that come from starting up a group program. How Erin’s group program students get their website copy done in 21 days. Mistakes copywriters make on their own websites plus how to navigate them. Building your email list and ramping up your lead generation. How to build boundaries around your life while being a yes person. Using your CEO days to get the most out of your time. Building a sustainable business – taking time off and getting paid for it. Her experience inside The Accelerator and transitioning into the Think Tank. Tune into the episode by hitting the play button below or reading the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club In Real Life Event The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Erin’s website Grace’s website Episode 154 Episode 262  Full Transcript: Rob:  A lot of copywriters write web copy for their clients, which is pretty natural because so many of our clients need help with their websites. But what about writing copy for your own website? That's a bit trickier. In fact, we've talked with hundreds, and I'm not exaggerating that number, hundreds of copywriters who are perfectly comfortable writing web copy for their clients, but can't seem to get past the blank page when it comes to their own website. You might be able to relate. Our guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Erin Pennings. Erin created a framework that makes the writing of web copy, that whole process a lot easier, even when working on copy for our own businesses. And she shares that framework, plus some ideas about frameworks, live edits and a whole lot more in our interview today. You'll want to stay tuned for this one, but before we get to Kira and me talking with Erin, my co-host here to add a few thoughts in today's episode is Grace Baldwin, and Grace is a B2B SaaS copywriter brand strategist who works to help B2B SaaS startups with niche solutions to big problems, helping them tell stories that connect with their audience. She's an awesome copywriter, has a great newsletter. Welcome, Grace. Grace:  Hi, Rob. I'm super excited to be here. Thanks for having me on. Rob:  I am thrilled to have you here. We haven't talked in a little while, so it's just good hanging out with you for a few minutes anyway. Grace:  Nice to catch up. Rob:  So, before we dig into the episode, we need to remind you this episode is sponsored by The Copywriter Club in Real Life. That's our in-person event that's happening later next month, March 28th through the 30th in Nashville, Tennessee. The room's really filling up. We only have about 200 seats in the room. It can't be expanded, and there are a lot of copywriters there that you are going to know. You may have heard of. People who are speaking include Mike Kim, Brian Speronello, Bridget Lyon, Ash Chow, Linda Perry. We have copywriters like Annie Becher and Anna Hetzel, who are organizing a fun run with free t-shirts. And, I was just looking over the people who were actually just attending to attend, and they include people like Sarah Greesonbach, Kevin Rogers, Rachel Mazza, Jen Robbins, Brittany McBean, Kim Schwalm and even Grace Baldwin. Grace:  Yes, I'm super excited about it. I can't wait. Rob:  If you want to hang out with all of these awesome people and about 170 others just like them, you can find the details and the link in the show notes to this episode of the podcast. Make sure you don’t miss out. It’s going to be an awesome, awesome event. Grace:  You really won't want to miss out. I went to the Not in Real Life event last year and it was a game changer. And so, I'm so excited for actually meeting everybody in real life this year. So, hope to see you there. It was really cool last year. Rob:  Yeah, and last year had a lot of really good content but we couldn't really do the one-to-one relationships and hanging out in the hallway or going to dinner together, and so we're thrilled to be back live, doing it all over again. This will actually be the first time that I get to meet you in person, Grace, which will be really cool. Grace:  Yeah, it'll be weird but also very ... I don't know, it's going to be very cool after a year of meeting over Zoom to actually see what you look like in person. Rob:  Exactly. So again, check out the show notes for this episode. You can get your ticket. There really are literally less than 10 VIP tickets left and somewhere around 50 tickets to the event itself left. So if you’ve been thinking about it, jump on those because they’re going to be gone soon. All right, Grace. So, let’s jump in and listen to our interview here with Erin Pennings. Erin:  I have been copywriting for longer than I ever realized. I had this picture in my head that copywriters were mad men style agency people from the 50s, and I didn't really, for a long time, understand that what I was doing in a lot of my jobs was copywriting. But from the time that I worked in Alaska tourism to global tourism, and then back into bookmarking, it was all copywriting. It was all figuring out the right angle to get people to open emails. What made a good story? What people needed to believe in order to take action, whatever that action was. So, when I went out on my own and hung my proverbial shingle almost three years ago, it was "Okay, I'm going to do something with marketing, but what is it?" And then, I found copywriting. I'm like, "Hey, that's what I've always done." And holy cow, I can bring skills that I've been honing for the last 15 plus years and really help people make money and build their business and make a difference in their business. Rob:  So, Erin, did I hear you right? You said you worked in Alaska tourism? Erin:  Yeah. I grew up in Alaska in a really small touristy town. We had a ski resort and that's the main business of the town was a ski resort in the winter and then in the summer, it was tourism. So, it was this natural thing that my first several jobs all were in hospitality from running a gift shop and actually doing sales, and some of it was on high end artwork, and then working in high end restaurants throughout college. It progressed from there. I've done everything from being the tour director on the front of the bus to promoting local tours. Rob:  So now I want to tour. I want to hear the tourist spiel. Erin:  I don't know if I can do that. It was really funny because I'd hop up in the front of the bus and I'd put on this persona. It was still me, but it was a different person than the person that you'd interact with on a day-to-day basis. We could talk about anything from where we were going that day to fun and weird stories. Kira:  What do you miss the most about Alaska? Because, I know you are no longer there. What are some of the specifics that you miss? Erin:  A lot of it, I miss the people. There's this unique, independent spirit of ... Everyone is mostly fine with people being who they are. And, I can't really quantify that with words. It's a lot of you do you and that's cool. I'm going to do me. So, there's something about that that I have not found anywhere else that I've lived, and I've lived in some other places. That's number one. But number two is summers. Man, you can't beat summers in Alaska with sun ... I don't know, I think it's 20 hours a day where I grew up. It's strange that I don't even remember that, but it was light when you got up and it was light when you went to bed, and if you woke up in the middle of the night, it was also still light. Rob:  Yeah, I had that Alaska experience when my wife and I were first married. She was running the midnight marathon, which they run in the middle of the night because you can, and I can't remember if it was a couple days before or a couple days after, but it's in the middle of the night so we're asleep. We've got the blackout shades down because it's light outside and I can hear some hammering going on. It's just constant hammering outside, so I open up the window to look out and see what's going on, and there's some guy building a fence at 1:00 in the morning. We were staying with some cousins and they're like, "Oh yeah, well, when it's summertime, you got to take advantage of the light. So, it's pretty normal behavior." I'm like, "It's 1:00 in the morning. The next door neighbor's building a fence. Crazy." But that has nothing to do with what you're talking about so I'm really curious, Erin ... You mentioned that you had been doing copywriting all along but then as you decided to put out your own shingle, I'm curious, how did you start attracting clients? What was the thing that you did in order to not just say I'm a copywriter but to actually get work? Erin:  To be honest,

On the 276th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Esai Arasi hops on the show. Esai is a Social Media Manager and Strategist who helps copywriters with their content strategy to get the most out of their content. Social media has the potential to expand your reach and connect with more leads, and in this episode, Esai walks us through how you can use it to its greatest potential. Here’s how it goes down: Esai’s transition from psychological trainer to copywriter and social media strategist. How to guide someone to change their behavior *willingly*. Why belief is of utmost importance in creating changed behavior. Human psychology and the roots of how humans change and evolve over time. How Esai has transferred her skills into copywriting. The process for implementing change and making it fun (and easier). Being good at the skill but struggling with the business aspect of acquiring clients. How credentials and formal education can help you build foundational skills in your business. How to create a minimum viable product and implement it into your business. Does it need to be perfect? The benefits of having an insatiable curiosity for learning and mastering the craft of copywriting. How not to get stuck in the learning phase of your business and lean into the doing. Why you need to build stamina for failure and how to use it to your advantage. What copywriters can improve in marketing their business. The worst content strategy advice you could be listening to and what to do instead. Working in other countries and charging a premium price. How to train your team in mimicking your processes. Esai’s future business plans and how she intends to help women learn English and gain better job opportunities. From social media strategy to strengthening your behavioral psychology skills, this episode is a must-listen (or read). The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club In Real Life Event The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Connect with Esai  Esai’s episode on The Great Escape with Jacob Suckow PrimalBranding Principles of Marketing Organizational Behavior E-Myth Episode 54 Episode 106 Jared’s website Full Transcript: Kira:  For many copywriters, social media is a necessary evil. Many of us dread showing up on social media, I am one of those people. But we also realize visibility on social media can be a game changer for our business. For the 276th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we're joined by Esai Arasi. Esai is a member of our Think Tank Mastermind, a copywriter and a social media strategist who helps copywriters, oftentimes copywriters who dread social media, and helps them navigate social media so they can stand out to premium clients. And today I am so excited to sit here with my co-host Jared MacDonald. So Jared, thanks for being here. I appreciate it. Jared:  Thanks for having me, Kira. Always a pleasure. Kira:  It's been so long since we got to hang out. So, I'm glad you're here today. And why don't you just introduce yourself? Let us know who you are, what you do. Jared:  Sure, sounds good. Yeah. So, it's been a little while, but yeah, if we haven't met, my name is Jared MacDonald and I'm a growth coach for one person service-based businesses, helping with a lot of different perspectives from sales to tech and just overall, just some of the challenges that I've found that come easy to me, but are pretty headache conducing for my friends in the service-based business space. And then on the client side, I do a lot of UX strategy, user experience strategy. So, customer journey mapping and customer research kind of main specialties there. Kira:  And can you just share like the clients, the types of clients you typically work with? Jared:  Yeah, yeah. They've... It's ranged over the years, but largely enterprise. So kind of financial and eCommerce as well. Kira:  Okay. And I feel like, Jared, you're one of those people who just can do everything. So, anytime I have any type of problem, tech related, automation, active campaign, I just ask you or I refer people to you because you have all the answers to all types of tech questions. Do you feel like that's fair? Jared:  I mean, I feel like you're way too kind first off, because I definitely don't have all of the answers. But yeah, I mean, it's just all about helping, all about serving and I think if I can help, I most certainly will. Kira:  All right. So for today, before we jump into this conversation with our guest, this week's sponsor is TCC IRL, 'The Copywriter Club In Real Life'. So it's our big event, which is taking place in person in Nashville, Tennessee, in March 28th through 30th. And it's been a while since we all hung out in person. So we are excited to get together, hang out, bring together some incredible speakers. And you know Jared, you've been to our event, so maybe rather than me plugging it in reading this promo copy on the page, you could just share what was your experience like at TCC IRL? Jared:  Yeah, I mean, it's hard to sum it up, to sum up multiple years into just a quick kind of pitch. But I feel like it's going to sound a lot like your promo copy, not because you paid me to say this, but just because I love you guys and love your event. Yeah I mean, I've been to just for perspective too, for anybody listening. I mean, I... Not anymore because of COVID, but I went to conferences, probably 12 to 14 conferences a year, all over the world. And Rob and Kira, not just because they're my friends, but because it's such an awesome event and it is literally the top three, if not the favorite event of mine of year. And the reason for that, I mean obviously the content is great, you will learn a lot. But for me, what I love is just the people that are attracted to this event and the connections that you'll make. And that's kind of consistent for a lot of conferences, but I think this one in particular, I've told a lot of friends, I've told family about it. It's the quality of the people. And every year I've gone, I've met new people and seen old friends and even if you don't have that luxury, this is your first time going, I would highly, highly, highly recommend you go. Kira:  Thanks Jared, for saying that. And of course I want to know, what would take us from number three to number one? But we can talk about that. Jared:  I thought you were going to say, "Of course I want to pay you later." But no, I’m just kidding. I didn't receive any compensation for- Kira:  That too, that too. All right. So, thank you and if you're listening and you have any interest in this event, head over to thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl-2022 and we'll link to it in the show notes, so you can check out the event. Now, let's jump into the interview with Esai. Esai:  I think the first time I ever wrote something, I was probably eight. And I can't remember a time when I haven't been writing stories, poems and a lot of really embarrassing stuff that my parents still kept. But I never thought I would actually become a copywriter. What I thought I would become is a trainer. Somebody that helped people, helped people change, helped people become better versions of themselves and that's what I did at my corporate job for almost, actually almost a decade. The story of how I have become a copywriter from that, it's very interesting and it's not at all a typical story of how somebody starts a business. But, I'm really glad I got here because I feel like everything that I've learned, reading books, writing stories, becoming a trainer, learning, researching experiential learning and behavioral change, everything has tied in so beautifully with what I do today. Rob:  So, tell us more about that. As a trainer, what were the things that you did and how that applies to what you do as a copywriter? Esai:  So, I was actually incredibly lucky to work with some really good managers who prioritize employee wellbeing and prioritize training, which helped me focus on not just creating this cookie cutter training, but actually designing programs that helped people change their behavior. So that was the first mandate I got. One of the first jobs that I held as a trainer and the first things we worked on, is how do we get high school kids to change the way they behave. A part of that, and I've talked about this in many different platforms, is how do we get high school boys, especially seniors to stop vandalizing the school and instead, whenever they have free time, get them to read books. And that's felt like, such a lofty goal when they actually first told me that this is what they wanted, that I wasn't sure how we are going to do it. But we started from the basics, right? So, we talk about when we don't want people to change their behavior. A lot of old school thinking comes in and this actually ties in with the way we have these cassette tactics, right? We always think we can treasure people, we can scare people into doing something we want them to do. Unfortunately, that's... In my experience as a trainer, it works in the short term, yes. But it's not sustainable and it often implodes or explodes in the worst way possible. So, one of the things I learned was the only way you can help people change their behavior, you can help people, help people become better is number one, understanding what they want. Go back to basics and talk to them and like to understand what they need, understand what they want, understand what they believe. And once you have a good understanding, once you understand them, then you create an environment which helps them change that belief. And once a belief is changed and the change in action is very, very easy to affect. So one of the things that we did for when we wanted high school boys to start trading books was number one,

On the 275th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re joined by Dan Clark. Dan is the CEO of Brain.FM, science-first functional music technology that supports focus, meditation, and sleep. In this episode, we uncover how neuroscience and music can work together to improve your productivity and trigger your flow state for maximum concentration. Having a moment of realization that makes you shift your focus to finding your purpose. Why it’s a good idea to try new (and impossible) things to build confidence and break through your comfort zone. How “no” will always be your answer if you never ask for what you want. How does functional music work to bring you to your flow state? The difference between functional music and Art music. The science behind getting into your flow state within 5 minutes. Can functional music help with ADHD and neurodiversity? Breaking down 3D sound and how it supports focus. Is it possible to train your brain to go from night owl to morning person? The differences in the focus, relaxation, and sleep modes of Brain.FM. Energy management as a business owner and CEO. How to make the most out of time with specific habits. Psychological triggers that help bring your brain into flow state. How to utilize your surroundings to enhance productivity. Creating a blueprint to help more people and driving your business forward by working backward. How to stay focused on one thing at a time when you have a multitude of visions. The importance of creating intentional space to move the needle toward specific goals. Why hiring support from experts, coaches, and consultants will save you time. If you’ve ever wondered how music (or sounds) has the power to help with concentration and how you can take it a step further, be sure to listen in on this episode or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club In Real Life Event The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Brain.FM 30 day free trial Episode 237 Episode 178 Episode 68 Chanti's episode Chanti's website  Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:   Discipline, focus, mindset, getting things done, these are the topics that Kira and I both find ourselves coming back to again and again, and they're the things that we're trying to practice from day to day, and we're not alone. Lately, it feels like we're hearing from a lot of copywriters who are struggling with their own focus. Some are even dealing with things like attention deficit disorder, and none of this is new. There have always been distractions in the workplace. It's just that now that so many of us are working from home, we're easily distracted by family members, virtual school, spouses, partners, pets, any number of things that keep us away from the work that we do. If that sounds familiar to you, you're going to like this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Our guest is Dan Clark, the CEO of Brain.fm. That's a music service that provides functional music designed to help you focus, sleep, and relax better. You might call it a Spotify for your brain. Dan talks about the science behind this unique music and how it relates to focus and flow state, neurodiversity, productivity, and managing your energy, but before we get to our interview with Dan, let me introduce my co-host for today's episode. It's Chanti Zak. Welcome back, Chanti. Chanti Zak:   Thank you so much. I am very excited to be here and talk about one of my favorite things. Rob Marsh:   Yeah. This is going to be fun. So longtime listeners are going to remember your name partly because it's been mentioned by so many people who've been on the podcast, but also because we interviewed you way back in episode 54, where we talked about building quiz funnels. Chanti, you're a growth strategist. You're known as the queen of quizzes. You're the founder of Empathy Marketing Ecosystem Agency. You're the chief evangelists at Interact. You're doing so many things that weren't even in your mind the last time we talked on the podcast. So I'm really stoked to have you back. Chanti Zak:   Yeah, it's been a minute and I am stoked to be back. Rob Marsh:   Plus, you've had a couple of kids, three kids, and yeah, you're doing awesome, awesome stuff. I'm thrilled to have you here. So we also need to make sure that you know that this week's sponsor is The Copywriter Club in Real Life. That's our annual event for copywriters. This year, it's scheduled from March 28th through the 30th in Nashville, Tennessee. It's not your average event. You'll hear from copywriters who should be familiar to you if you've listened to the podcast for a while, people like Mike Kim, and Brigitte Lyons, and Aly Goulet, and Jude Charles, but it's not just presenters. We know what it's like to show up at an event as an introvert… (I'm an introvert. Kira's an introvert.) and not actually know anyone. So we've structured the events so that you can't leave without making a few friends, and among the 200 other copywriters that will be there, there's tons of opportunities to do that, to have people who will support you in your copywriting business. I promise you'll leave with a notebook full of actionable ideas that you can use to grow your own business and improve your processes. If you're interested in that, go to thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl-2022 to purchase a ticket now. You can find that link in our show notes. Chanti, you actually, well, the first time you and I met in person was at the very first TCCIRL. Chanti Zak:   Yeah. You know what? I was fidgeting with my fidget cube the other day that I won during the scavenger hunt that we did in New York City. Rob Marsh:   That's right. Chanti Zak:   I was just thinking back to that time and how much fun it was. I got to serenade Ry Schwartz with Bohemian Rhapsody. We laughed so much. It definitely stands out in my brain as one of the most magical experiences. I mean, both of the live or have I been to three? I can't even keep track anymore. Rob Marsh:   You've come to three because you were in San Diego, too, because you had your baby in San Diego, and you spoke on stage when we were in Brooklyn and gave this amazing talk where you had paddles and we had to walk across the room. People were going from one side of the room to the other. It was hilarious, and it was a ton of fun. Chanti Zak:   A quiz from stage, yeah. Rob Marsh:   Exactly. It was great. Chanti Zak:   Oh, my gosh! Rob Marsh:   It was so fun. Anyway, well, like I said, I'm thrilled that you're here to talk about some of this stuff. So let's get into our interview with Dan Clark and learn a little bit more about how he came to be involved with Brain.fm. Dan Clark:   So, to really start from the beginning, when I was younger, I was bullied mercilessly. My parents signed me up for martial arts, ended up getting my black belt, and then teaching other kids on how to be more confident and transformed kids from being shy to leaders. I was doing that for a while. I ended up getting involved in technology. I made my first website when I was 13, and I made the academy's first website. They went from getting 20 leads a month to 120 leads a month. Before long, I had a little business making these martial arts websites to getting lead generation. I went from helping people transform and using martial arts as a vehicle to do that to let's just figure out what I can do with technology, and I really started optimizing for financial success. I kept doing more complicated things, selling and buying businesses, getting parts of businesses that I would help grow the next level. It wasn't until I was a digital director of a company and selling TV and radio ads, which I actually realized that I wasn't really happy. So on the outside looking in, I was making really good money. I was doing all the things. I was pretty young at the time. I was 23 selling million dollar contracts, and I just felt like I wasn't doing my purpose, so to speak. Then, I had a near life-or-death situation. I actually had a gun pointed at my face with one of my clients. Kira Hug:   A what? Dan Clark:   Long story there. Yeah. So what happened was I used to sell TV and radio. A lot of that I had to go to clubs and different kinds of things. We were leaving a club once and I actually had someone point a gun at me and it made me ... I actually thought I was going to die. I didn't, spoiler alert, but it made me really realize that my life got off track to what I really wanted to do, which is help people be the best version of themselves. So I actually three days later quit my job up to the chagrin of my parents and people around me and walked away from everything, and I said, "How can I actually use technology and help people?" I was looking around for three months, and I remember trying Brain.fm for the first time. I was always very interested in tuning my focus, so to speak. I used to work from 10:00 PM to 4:00 AM because I found that there was that magic moment where I could find this state where everything was effortless, and I could just go. Now, both of you and listeners may be familiar with now it's called flow state, right? So I could find my flow state in that magic zone. I've tried everything. So I tried nutrition. I tried neutropics, which are different kinds of vitamins you can take. I've tried binaural beats and all these other kinds of things. I remember seeing Brain.fm and I was like, "Oh, well, this is probably binaural beats and this isn't going to really work for me, but I'll try it anyway." It was probably around the afternoon, like 10:00 AM or 12:00 PM, and I remember putting it on and listening to it, taking my headphones out for an hour later and being like, "Holy crap! This is going to change the world. I just want to be part of this thing."

On the 274th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Anna Rosa Parker joins the show. Anna is a brand alchemist and wordsmith who helps artists and creatives develop their brand personality using a holistic approach. In this episode, she uncovers how she uses her background and roots to get what she wants and how we can step into our own inner Viking. Here’s what we chat about: The shift from actor and screenwriter to copywriter. Feeling pulled in many directions and being multi-passionate. How knocking on doors can help you acquire new skills. Why Anna decided to leave acting and the mindset that led her in a different direction. How you can use the open-door policy to ask for what you want. Why you need to learn how to be fearless and how to step into your inner Viking. The equality in CEOs and janitors. The benefits of being in the marketing space, and how it can satisfy your ever growing desire to learn. Taking big chances when you don’t have a direction and how community can guide you when you feel lost. The difference in doing copy WITH vs FOR you. Is it a service you should offer? How you can utilize parts of your past into the present and future. The pros and cons of working with agencies. The key to writing holistic copy. Anna’s process in working with artists to find their brand identity. The underlying definition of creating a brand. Attracting clients by being 100% yourself and knowing exactly who you want to attract. Podcast creation and how it came about. Working with a partner who connects with your artist mindset. The struggles of being an artist and how to overcome them. The difference between building a business as an artist vs a marketer. Tune into the episode to find out how you can step into your inner Viking to ask for what you want. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Anna's website Justin's website Episode 33 Episode 202 Full Transcript: Rob:  There's a book that we've referenced on the podcast in the past a couple of times. It's called The Alter Ego Effect, and its author is Todd Herman. And the big idea from the book is that you can adopt a different identity to help you show up in new ways in the various roles of your life, kind of like Clark Kent and Superman. Superman can't just be a normal person, so he puts on a suit and glasses and he pretends to be a reporter, in order to show up in an important way in his life. Today's guest for The Copywriter Club Podcast is Anna Rosa Parker. She's adopted an alter ego that she describes as a viking in heels, and it helps her to accomplish big things in her business. Actually, it's not fair to say that she's adopted that alter ego because, like Clark Kent, Superman is the real person, and Anna is the real Viking showing up as a brand strategist most days in her business. We'll hear more about that in a minute, but first let me introduce my guest commentator to for today, Justin Blackman. Justin, welcome. Justin:  Man. It is fun to be here. I always love talking with you guys. Rob:  Yeah. For anybody who hasn't heard you, which if you've listened to the podcast more than a handful of times, they've probably heard you mentioned or be a guest. Justin's a copywriter, brand voice expert. He's been a guest on the podcast twice before, episode 59, where he talked about his 100 headline project, the thing that kind of put him in the map, and episode 216, when he came back and shared his approach to brand voice. And if I'm not mistaken, I don't have these episodes in front of me, Justin, you've come back and you've asked Kira and I questions on one or two episodes. Justin:  I did. Rob:  I feel like maybe it's your fifth time here. Justin:  I think this is the fourth, actually. Yeah. Rob:  Yeah, fourth appearance. All of those episodes are worth a listen, when you finish this interview. Justin's also spoken at our event, The Copywriter Club in Real Life. I should just mention really quickly, there are still a handful of tickets left to next year's event, the end of March, 2022, in Nashville. If you're interested in those, there will be a link in the show notes. And finally, you can find Justin and his brand voice programs at Pretty Fly Copywriting. Again, Justin, I'm happy to have you here. Justin:  I am so excited for TCCIRL. I cannot wait to get down to Nashville. Rob:  Yeah. And actually being together in person after two years, hanging out with friends. We actually just had a meeting this morning, talking about what's going on and some of the speakers and what we're putting together for swag, and walked through the hotel and all the food options. I'm really, really stoked. I can't wait to make this thing happen. Yeah, we're going to together again. This'll be fun. Justin:  Yeah, pick up right where we left off. Rob:  Exactly. Also, before we get to the interview, let me briefly mention that this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator. If you're listening to this episode on the day that it comes out, The Accelerator closes to new members tonight. The Accelerator is our 16-week program that helps you make the switch from struggling freelancer to booked out business owner. That's kind of a catchy way to say we help you set up your business so that you can succeed. We focus on things like nailing your x-factor, creating processes and boundaries so that you can serve your clients better. You also learn how to create service packages that clients want to buy and price them, so that you're paid a fair value for the value that you create. And we show you lots of ways to attract those clients to your business. We've actually revamped all of the content, and it's brand new this year. It's the perfect program if you want to make your 2022 more successful than 2021 was. And Justin, you actually went through that program? Justin:  I did. I was in the beta round. Rob:  Yeah, the very first time. And it's changed a lot since then, but you're one of the success stories. Justin:  Yeah, man. And I still use the templates that I got in that original program. That's where I got my contracts. That's where I got all my official programming and set up my business, before I even really thought that I needed one or that I'd have one. I was so happy that I did that and everything was in place, for when I finally made the jump to full-time freelance. Rob:  Yeah. It's been helpful to a lot of people. We shared a bunch of success stories last week on the podcast. Be sure to check that out. Now let's just get into the interview with our viking, Anna Rosa Parker. We'll be back in about 20, 25 minutes to chat about some of the stuff that stands out to us. So, here's our interview with Anna. Anna:  I started freelancing in New York for advertising agencies and some fashion in-house, as a freelance copywriter, but it didn't start there. I started writing, just writing in general. I started writing plays, early after I graduated from University of Washington, with a BA in drama. I was an actor by trade and became a playwright by default, from not liking or connecting the work that I was being offered and not getting the work I wanted, kind of a thing. So, I started to write my own material. I did that for a while. Then I came to that place where you wonder what you're doing, if that is what you should be doing. You know, that ongoing struggle, like, "Should I stay in the theater or not?" And so, I eventually left, and I got my first marketing job at Nordstrom in 2007. I did that for three years. I started just in the store, selling couture. Nordstrom had an open door policy. I was in the corporate store, and I knocked on the door of the owner, Blake Nordstrom. He's passed since. And I said, "Hey, I love your company. I can't be on the floor selling those dresses." He introduced me to the PR director of Nordstrom and they were just all such lovely people. I was knocking on a few doors, and one sent me to the next, and all of a sudden there was this job that was kind of created, as I was knocking on doors. I was a marketing coordinator. I did that for three years. That was probably my marketing school, because I came from the arts. I mean, I went to university, but I have a BA in drama, so that was my marketing ... I learned a lot there. There were cool people, a lot of women. Then eventually, I just couldn't ... I wasn't ready for it. I left and went back to the theater. Eventually we, my husband and my daughter, we moved to New York in 2011. And it took me a minute. Back then, I was hustling, just working in advertising agencies and in-house. I never signed a full-time contract, but some of these freelance gigs were up to a year, nine months. But I did this for a while. For some reason, I think because of the Nordstrom background, that's why I wanted to tell you that, the luxury background, that just took me straight into luxury hospitality. I worked on a lot of different accounts, some very exciting hotels, 1 Hotels and Baccarat, some pretty high end stuff. And I worked with some cool clients, athletes, Venus Williams and some really cool people. Cut to 2020, when the pandemic hit, and my business was evaporated. That year was crazy. But I found you guys in December, 2020, and everything has up-leveled since then. Rob:  That's all she wrote it. You have this very glamorous background, as an actress, and then working with all these famous people, these amazing brands. I like it all. But I want to go all the way back to when you were trying to make that decision of leaving acting. Will you just kind of walk us through that decision process? What was not working, and what were you considering?

On the 273rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re joined by 3 guests. Peta O'Brien-Day, Tori Autumn, and Demetrius Williams join the show to talk about their experience inside The Copywriter Accelerator. The Accelerator Program is our signature program to help new-ish copywriters build the foundations they need to have a successful copywriting business. Whether you decide to join or not, this episode is filled with actionable advice no matter what stage of business you’re in. Here’s what we talk about: How The Copywriter Club Accelerator can help transform your business. Why people decide to join + how you may feel when you’ve hit a ceiling in your business. The key to fast-tracking your business. Hint: Systems and processes play a big role. How to go from order-taker to business owner (and stay that way). 3 books you may want to add to your bookshelf in 2022. The secret(s) to shifting your money and pricing mindset, so you can increase your prices. Why it’s important to dedicate time to your business AND business development. Balancing the different roles you play in your business and outsourcing what you can. The benefits of accountability, and how it will propel you forward faster. How branding yourself can be like therapy. Should you start before you’re ready? How to juggle life and business while going through an immersive program. Niching yourself based on your values. Creating packages that feel good and don’t overwhelm you. Why it’s a good thing to change your brand over time. The best time to invest in yourself. Hit play or check out the transcript, so you can jot down and implement the advice in this episode. Ready to hit accelerate on your business? Check out the Accelerator by hitting the link below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Underground Peta's website Tori's website Demetrius's website    Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  If you're a regular listener to The Copywriter Club Podcast, you know that it's rare for us to have more than one guest on a single episode. But today we're going to do things a little differently. We've invited three different members of the current cohort of The Copywriter Accelerator to join us, to talk about their experience in this transformative program. Kira Hug:  We'll let these copywriters introduce themselves in a moment, but first, let me just say, if you're tempted to skip this episode, because you're not interested in this program, it could be worth giving it a quick listen because many of the takeaways they share about the changes they've made to their businesses apply to copywriting businesses at every single stage. And these writers are doing some pretty cool things in their businesses. You might be inspired by what they've done, and maybe even borrow an idea or two for your own business. Rob Marsh:  At this point in the program, we would usually say something like this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator. And then we would tell you all of the reasons why you should consider joining. We're not going to do that today. Other than to say that after listening to this episode, take a moment to visit thecopywriteraccelerator.com and see what this program is all about. And see for yourself whether or not it's something that you should consider for your business this year. Kira Hug:  So, let's jump in with our guests. We are so excited today to be here with some of our Accelerator members, members who are currently in the program, which we're about to wrap up this month. And so before we dive into this conversation and ask you all a bunch of questions, can you take a minute to introduce yourself, all three of you? Just share name, where you're located, your copywriting specialty, and then bonus points if you want to share a favorite movie or book, optional. Tori, why don't you kick this off? Tori Autumn:  Hi, my name is Tori Autumn. I live in Washington DC and I focus on launch copy and website copy for course creators and coaches. My favorite book, I'm actually getting into that book the Four Thousand Weeks right now. It's scary to think of life like that, but it's also great to think of my time management. Kira Hug:  Yeah. Such a great book. I feel like when I hear Four Thousand Weeks, it makes me think that we have more time than I thought, but I'm like, wow, we have Four Thousand Weeks. This is great. So much time available. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. Until you do the math, Kira, and figure out that you've lived 2000 of them and... Kira Hug:  Rob, I didn't do the math. I didn't do the math. Thank you. Thank you for that. Rob Marsh:  You're welcome. Kira Hug:  All right. Thanks Tori. And Demetrius, can you introduce yourself? Demetrius Williams:  Yeah. So I'm Demetrius I'm from London. I specialize in website and blog copy for retail tech businesses. And I read so much. But the last book I just read was Atomic Habits. I literally read that in less than a day. Kira Hug:  Oh wow. Demetrius Williams:  And I've basically used it to tone down my procrastination. I have a shun for procrastination sometimes. So habit stacking to get rid of the bad habits has been a really good thing for me in the last couple of weeks. Kira Hug:  All right. Thanks Demetrius. Peta, what about you? Peta O'Brien-Day:  So, I'm Peta O'Brien-Day and I'm from New Bri, which is a little bit west of Demetrius in the UK. I focus on helping entrepreneurs write nurturing copy for their businesses and help them build authentic relationships with their customers in the health and lifestyle space. In terms of books, I've got a tiny person at home, so I haven't read a lot in a while. But I have just finished Caitlin Moran's More Than a Woman, which is incredible. She's fabulous. She's so funny. And she writes about politics and social justice and feminism and all kinds of things. That book is about all the different things that we have to think about as women in the 21st century and how much we have going on and what we can maybe do to make it a bit easier. Kira Hug:  All right. Well, I am adding that to my list for sure, Peta. I need that one. Peta O'Brien-Day:  You would definitely love her. She is fabulous. Kira Hug:  All right. And so let's just kick off this conversation. As I said, you're already in The Accelerator program. Let's go back in time to when you initially joined around four months ago. I'm just curious to hear why you joined. Where was your business at the time when you joined? Demetrius Williams:  I'll go first. I think I just started, I think I was a year into freelance copywriting and I just got to a ceiling basically. And I just didn't know where to go next to level up in terms of my processes and how to get more clients. And I've been listening to the podcast for about a year and I'd always wanted to join The Accelerator, but I think I missed the last one. So I had to wait for the next one. Joining The Accelerator, it basically challenged me in how I've worked on my processes. And it's allowed me to get a bit further than some of my other freelance friends who have taken like three to five years to get where I want to get. So I basically joined, so I wanted to, instead of get five years to better my business, I'm going to get it down to at least a year. Rob Marsh:  That's awesome. How about you, Peta? Peta O'Brien-Day:  When I heard about The Accelerator, I'd started out in Upwork with my $35 blog post and I'd managed to work my way up to having some own clients that I'd cold pitched. But it was in drips and drabs and same as similar Demetrius I want to fast track things. But I didn't have a huge amount of time. I had a little girl at home, I still do and had only about 15 hours a week to do the training or any courses I wanted to do and my actual client work. So I wanted to find something that was accessible, that was easy to digest, but that gave me massive amounts of value. I knew that in January I was going to have a lot more time because my little girl was going to nursery and I wanted my business to have all the background stuff ready to go, the processes, the niche, the branding, everything ready to hit the ground running in January and really make things explode. Tori Autumn:  Well, I'm a little bit shocked that you're making me think back in 2021, but no. I started because I very much felt like an order taker. When I read about the sales emails and sales page for The Accelerator, it really put words to what I was currently going through. Just feeling like I had to settle for low budget copywriting projects. And it was mainly because I felt like I needed to prove myself in the copyright industry with lots of different projects and also not really knowing what to charge. So my biggest goal was knowing how to describe myself as a copywriter, what type of niche I want to go and also blended with the other part of my business, which is self love coaching. So that also involved the brand messaging and how to price my package and how to work through my own processes. Rob Marsh:  As I listen to you guys talk about it, there's a couple of themes already that seem to be coming out of the reasons why you joined. One of them, Tori and Peta, you both mentioned low budget projects and trying to get away from those. Could you talk a little bit about what you've learned in The Accelerator? Has it helped you think about your pricing and either raise it or help you make plans to increase your prices so that you're not stuck with those $35 blog posts, the low budget projects? Peta O'Brien-Day:  Sure. So much. Obviously there's a modern on pricing.

For the 272nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re joined by Kristin Macintyre. Kristin is a conversion copywriter who writes copy for launches with her signature VIP offer. If VIP offers are something you want to implement in the new year, then give this episode a listen. Here’s how the episode goes down: Kristin’s journey from college professor to launch copywriter. Starting and building a successful copywriting business in a short timespan. How copywriting and poetry have empathy in common. The open-ended questions that lead your clients to their true answer. How to teach and mentor with real-world examples. Pivoting your niche and offer for higher level success. Structuring a VIP offer. How does it break down? The difference between a VIP day and a VIP intensive. Elevating the client journey through different touchpoints. How to get more done by observing where your time is going. Adding a VIP intensive into your offer suite – is it possible for your business? How to set your VIP prices and when to increase them. The struggles of executing a VIP project and how to avoid burnout. What to add to your routine to keep up your energy during writing sprints. The power of knowing ‘why’ we use the formulas and frameworks we do. Diving into the digital product space and marketing your business. How copywriting is evolving into a new era of conversion. Looking to implement a new business model in 2022? Grab your headphones or read the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Accelerator Think Tank  The Copywriter Underground Kristin’s website Rachel’s website Episode 176 Episode 226   Full Transcript: Kira:  There's been a lot of buzz in the copywriting world around VIP offers, what should you include? What should you charge? How much is too much? How do you avoid burnout? The questions go on and on. Luckily, we're covering a ton of your question about VIP offers today with think tank member and our guest for the 272nd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Kristin McIntyre. After shifting from a standard VIP day to a VIP intensive model, Kristin has figured out the best way to deliver a true VIP client experience. We'll dig into all the details in today's interview. But first, I have a very special co-host for this episode, think tank alumni member, Rachel Greiman. So, Rachel, thanks for co-hosting with me today. Can you introduce yourself and say hello? Rachel:  Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm Rachel Greiman, as Kira said. I am a website copywriter for photographers, it is the nichiest of niches, and I love it. I own Green Chair Stories and we are a small copywriting collective. We have four writers besides myself at this point and we write about 50 websites a year. We don't do anything else, and we like it that way. Kira:  All right, I love it. And we're going to definitely dive into your business today because there is some overlap with what Kristin's doing in her business. So we'll dig in deeper. But before we get into the interview, this week sponsor for the podcast is TCC IRL. That's the copywriter club in real life, our big annual event. Before I give the dates and all the information. Rachel, can you just share a little bit about your experience at TCC IRL because you've been before and you are attending in Nashville this March. So what was it like for you? Rachel:  The first one, I've been to two, I went in 2019 and 2020, and the first one was in New York. Kira:  Oh, that's right. Rachel:  And it was the first time I had ever invested in any type of copywriting education or networking. Even though I had been doing it for a long time, I always worked for other organizations and it was nonprofit. So I didn't know anybody that did it freelance or ran their own business, it was a completely new world to me. I had stumbled upon the podcast earlier that year and we were living in Philly at the time. So I was like, "I can make it, the drive up to New York." I was just so surprised at how much I could learn from people who did things that were so different than me. I do something so specific that I was not skeptical, but hesitant to really feel like I was going to get all that much from the speakers. But I took an entire notebook full of notes the first day almost, I think I filled a notebook because I was realizing how much I had to learn as a business owner. So many things that other people were doing, even if they were launch copywriters or direct sales copywriters, I learned so much from them just because of the way they ran their business. So the speakers themselves were amazing. But then I met some of my dearest friends now who I've known for almost three years. It's crazy to think about that I have a daily Marco Polo thread with Lisa Bailey, Sarah Frandina, Kelsey Jenkins, and Andrea Latel. So I talk to them all the time and they have been extremely supportive friends and just business partners. There are people I can go to with all of my questions. It was like taking that spirit of the event and extending it into my daily life. And it's kind of a reunion now when we go. So I think we're all going to go again this year. I know a couple of them are going, I'm trying to get all of them to go again. But it is just like our little posse. Kira:  I love that. So maybe if you're listening and you want some copywriter besties, this could be an event worth checking out in Nashville, Tennessee on March 28th through the 30th. And you can find out more information at thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl-2022. Now let's jump into the interview with Kristin. Kristin:  It's a windy story as they normally are. But I suppose when I think of where I am now as a copywriter, I can really see roots beginning when I was younger. I was always interested in writing, of course, I had the classic assignment in seventh grade or so to write a poem in language arts class, and I loved that activity. So creative writing was something that I loved from when I was young. As I got older, I figured I would go to school for what I loved, which was English and writing and reading. And I did that and finished a bachelor's degree after some start stop of that degree and ended up in a master of fine arts program in Colorado State University studying poetry for three years. Which was truly such an amazing experience. And after that, I decided to teach, get into the world of teaching higher ed. And the poetry faculty jobs are very limited, so I ended up teaching freshmen in college how to write their research papers. So still language minded and writer minded. But I got away a little bit from the creative side of writing and ended up teaching composition. Which was a job that I felt disenchanted with quickly. After a couple years teaching, gets exhausting. And not because of the students, the students were my favorite part for sure, but the red tape and the admin stuff and all of the emotional labor that is really not factored into your paycheck, gets exhausting. So in my fifth year as a teacher, I was looking for an alternative possibility for a career, and I had no idea what that would be. I finally settled on or settled into the thought that I would go back to school to become an occupational therapist, which I felt was a great job with a career at the end of the degree that I would be able to roll right into. I geared up to do that. I took extra classes in school, I took the GRE, which is a big entrance exam to get into a master's program for occupational therapy, and I applied. I applied to some schools and I got in. I was waiting to just submit my acceptance to a new master's program. And somehow through the algorithm gods, I came across a copywriting program and figured I would give that a shot. That I thought was going to turn into just a side hustle to make me some extra money and fund my way through a second master's degree. I did so well in my first, I don't know, three or four months that I quit teaching. I told the master's program I wasn't coming and I went all in on building a copywriting business. Rob:  So as soon as you mentioned that you studied poetry, I started Googling to see if I could find some of your poems, and I found some. Kristin:  Oh, God. Kira:  Wait, play the dramatic music right now. Rob:  Awesome dramatic music. So I don't think they're embarrassing, they're actually cool. So you've submitted a lot of poems and things to different publications, this is totally cool. Talk to me a little bit about the art of poetry. Because some of my favorite writers when I'm reading fiction, one of the things that occurs to me when I'm reading that is that sometimes the thing I like about it is how poetic the language feels. And it's not necessarily the same as copywriting or even normal conversation, poets have a way of seeing the world I think that's just a little bit different and maybe more interesting. So tell us about your approach when you were writing poetry. Maybe you still do write poetry, but your approach to doing that. Kristin:  When I think of poetry and I think of fiction and these creative veins of writing, poetry stands out to me as a mode of thinking about the world, that is, you're right Rob, a little bit different than our traditional narrative driven like a pro's story. Poetry suspends itself from that typical sentence structure sometimes that we think about and we expect when we speak or we read. So when you're poems or you're writing poems, it's a really, really interesting experience to say, I have to suspend what I expect out of this language that I've come to know, this regular sentence structure and this narrative form that I'm going to meet a story here. And be open to encountering this thing that I know so well, which is language in a brand new way.

Krystle Church joins us for the 271st episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. A former Accelerator member, Krystle is a business mentor and runs a boutique copywriting studio. Krystle is a borderless entrepreneur who runs her business on the island of Mauritius. This episode is a must-listen if you’re curious about running a business abroad and balancing business endeavors all while keeping your mindset in check. We chat about: Transitioning from traveling elementary school teacher to borderless entrepreneur. Creating a healthy working atmosphere and getting to choose who you work with. Retiring your partner and defining freedom in your own terms. The illusion of choice and how it can impact business decisions. Utilizing the freedom you have to make CEO decisions. (because you are the boss, afterall.) How to unbox the narrative and stories we constantly tell ourselves. Overcoming cycles of burnout and soaking up the big milestones you reach before jumping into the next thing. Rewiring your mindset and figuring out what you want from your business. The biggest mindset blocks for copywriters and navigating them. How to work as a “workaholic.” Mindset and journaling practices for both business and personal growth. How to manage two aspects of business: mentorship + copy studio. Managing multiple team members who support the growth of your brand. How to train your team to provide the same white-glove experience you provide your DFY clients. Is it time to hire contractors or full time employees in your business? What processes need to be in place before making your first hire. How to raise your prices – Which marks should we be hitting? How to structure a high-ticket day rate. Copy chiefing and how to work with a junior copywriter. Hiring for your business from a financial perspective and stacking revenue. The secret to creating demand in your business. The struggles of a 6-figure business – Does it get easier? The impact of community and leaning on others for support. Grab your headphones or check out the transcript below.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Krystle's website Erin's website Aly's website Episode #207 Episode #245 Aly's episode    Full Transcript: Kira:  Mindset and pricing go hand in hand when you want to raise your prices. Getting over the fear of charging what we're worth is something so many copywriters struggle with in their businesses. In the 271st episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast, we're joined by Accelerator alumni member Krystle Church, who is an elementary school teacher turned business coach who also owns a boutique copywriting studio. Krystle walks us through how she's been able to raise her prices, build her team and increase her confidence over the last few years. Before we jump in, I have some introductions to make, because in this interview, I was actually joined by a co-host, I kicked Rob out of this show completely and Erin Pennings joined me. Erin is a Think Tank member and a B2B copywriter who focuses on brand messaging, website copy and visibility strategies. Erin also has an awesome program called Womp Womp to Wow, which is my favorite title for any program. And it's a 21-day web copy intensive. So Erin actually join me for the initial interview. You'll hear her asking questions. And I have another special guest today, Aly Goulet, who is also a Think Tank member. And Aly, thanks for being here with me today. Can you introduce yourself? Aly:  Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much for having me. I'm Aly Goulet. I'm a B2B SaaS and IT copywriter, and I also create resource for freelancers, including Genius Portfolio for WordPress. Kira:  Very cool. And before we dive into this interview, you know we love to have some sponsor action. And our sponsor today is the Think Tank, our mastermind. I know it's shocking that the Think Tank is our sponsor today. So Aly, as a member of the Think Tank, you are in your second year in the Think Tank. Can you share a little bit about your experience in this mastermind and maybe just how it's helped you the most? Aly:  Yeah. I think what really makes the Think Tank special when I compare it to even other offerings that I've been a part of in the past is that the community that you and Rob have created there is so special and it's really about learning and listening and reflecting off of each other so that we're all encouraged to move in the directions that we really want to lean into as opposed to doing things one right way or following the same program. We're all doing so many different things, we're all accomplishing so much. And it's just nice to be in a room with other people and really bouncing those ideas off of each other instead of operating in your own business vacuum. Kira:  Yeah. And you are such a great example of a writer who has done your own thing entirely and created your own plugin. Can you just talk a little bit about that because I do think you're such a great example of writer who's building a business your way? Aly:  Well, thank you. Yeah. The plugin, it wouldn't exist without the Think Tank, right? So I have to give it that. And really it came out of a concept that we talk about a lot in the Think Tank that's come up in a lot of conversations where the scraps of what we create are really things that we can repurpose and used to take our business in a different direction. Maybe that's creating a course, maybe it's co-creating a plugin like I did, maybe it's something else, but it's going beyond what we can offer in terms of copy deliverables, and really looking at where else our skills lie and what else we have to offer to the world. Kira:  All right. Cool. And if you want to hear more from Aly, you are in episode 249 of the podcast. I had to look that up, but check out and listen to Aly's interview 249 of the podcast. So let's jump into the interview with Krystle Church. Krystle, let's kick it off with story. How did you end up as a copywriter and a course creator and a mentor? Krystle:  Well, it is a long winding story as I feel like most guests on your podcast have. I in a past life was an elementary school teacher and I loved it. I thought it was my calling. I took international school jobs in various countries around the world. And I had a lot of fun for about eight years, I traveled and hopped around to a different country every year or two, taught third, fourth, fifth grade, and just enjoyed life and travel and that sort of access that gave me to the rest of the world. But there was this nagging feeling in the back of my mind that at the end of every holiday, every school break, I had to go back to work. And while I loved teaching, the work environments in most of these places always had a catch. It was either really toxic or the policies were absurd or you didn't actually have enough time to teach the curriculum. There was always something that caused an extreme amount of stress and pressure on educators. And over the course of these eight years, I felt this thing building up. In the background of my mind, something was percolating, something was bubbling to the surface until I landed my last job where I was at my "nine-to-five". And there, it was kind of like the needle on the haystack, you had to sift through some things to find what was wrong. From the surface, it looked wonderful and it looked like I was traveling every holiday, I had a great salary, I had all sorts of choice or the illusion of choice, I might say. But really when you dug down deeper into the work environment and the culture, and specifically the team that I was assigned to, there was an extreme issue with a boys club atmosphere. And there was a lot of toxicity. And it broke me. I got to the point where I was like, "Why am I here? And what does the rest of my career look like?" Every job I've gone to has had some sort of big, negative impact that takes away from the joy of education and having your class and your kids. And I felt like I couldn't see doing that for the rest of my life as much as I love teaching. And it's so funny because I literally Googled, I loved writing in my spare time. So I Googled like, how to get paid to be a writer. And I found a blog that talked all about copywriting. And I was like, "Wow, what is this interesting and weird, strange niche area?" And I dug into it and I started learning and practicing. And I just decided, you know what? I'm going to quit my job. And I'm going to figure this out and make this my dream and build an entire business that operates how I want in a healthy work environment where I get to choose the team members that I'm surrounded with and really gives me just the flexibility, the freedom of time, finances, choice to do what I want in both my business and my life. And so I did put in my notice and that was with the goal of then retiring my partner from his teaching job. And I was able to do that within 14 months of starting my business and launching this copywriting coaching courses business. And here I am today about year and a half in just loving life. And currently living in an island in the tropics, have retired my guy, and we are just figuring out what freedom really means to us. Erin Pennings:  So that's amazing, Krystle. And I've been following you. I've been following a lot about where you've landed and some of your travels, but something you just said, the illusion of choice is something I think is really powerful. And I think how has not having a choice, how does that impact the way you run your business and the people you choose to work with? Krystle:  Oh, that's such a great point to talk on because I think we can keep ourselves inside of these boxes and sometimes not even realize that we don't have choice,

On the 270th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’re diving into the world of Kira Hug. Who is she really and does she even like to hug? She shares her experiences from the beginnings of her own copywriting career to where she is today and where she plans to go in the future. Tune in to find out: The rise of Kira Hug. What it was like to live in New York City and what her favorite experiences were. Raising kids in Brooklyn and moving to Washington, DC. Kira’s first writing experiences and learning about her love for interviewing. The struggles Kira faced most as she built her copywriting business. Navigating through the head trash that can be such a constant burden for copywriters. How to stop getting in your own way. Kira’s least favorite client project and how she said “see ya later!” Finding the confidence to know you have what it takes to move forward. Building The Copywriter Club, copywriting agency, and raising young children. Was it love at first sight for Kira and Ezra? Are we going to start training for a copywriter’s marathon? Why Kira uses a tiny paintbrush for big projects. The motivating factors that drive Kira to keep going. The push to continue to get better in life and never staying complacent. The biggest takeaways Kira has had from coaching hundreds of copywriters. How your business can have dramatic change by implementing this one thing. Why you can’t let yourself surrender to the head trash. How copywriters can think bigger for themselves. The legacy Kira wants to leave for the world and her kids. Listen to or read the inside scoop of everyone’s beloved copy mom. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Four Thousand Weeks    Full Transcript: Rob:  Welcome everyone. This is another episode of just Kira and Rob talking on the podcast, which means we don't have a written out introduction. I suppose we could talk about how this episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Accelerator, which should be opening momentarily, within days of this episode going live, or within weeks anyway. Accelerator is our basic training, 16-week... It's not really a course and it's not really a membership, but it's a program where you go through with a cohort of other ambitious copywriters and basically set the foundations that you need to put in place for a successful copywriting business. The skillset that you need as a copywriter are different from those that you need as a business owner. And, if you want to succeed at both, you need to have both, and so that's where The Accelerator comes in. Okay, so now that we've dealt with that part, it's just you and me, Kira. Kira:  We've dealt with the whole selling our stuff part, let's get that out the way. Rob:  Exactly. So, 10 episodes ago you interviewed me. We do this every once and a while, where it's just you and me talking, but 10 episodes ago we did a little bit more of like, "Okay, we'll try to dive into a little bit more of behind the scenes Rob." And, of course, we want to turn the tables now and get the behind the scenes Kira, and find out who you really are when you're not necessarily doing The Copywriter Club thing. Kira:  I am the exact same person. Rob:  We're going to find out. Kira:  Shocker. Rob:  Yeah, we're going to find out. Kira:  Yeah, same person. Rob:  Okay, well let's start with a couple of easy questions, warm you up. You've lived in a whole bunch of places. You've been in Chicago, and Virginia, you went to school in Virginia, you lived in New York. I think when we met you even described yourself as, "A New Yorker," that was who you were. Kira:  Oh, yeah. Rob:  And now, you're living in Washington D.C., so I'm curious about the history of Kira traveling around and being in places. What's your favorite place that you've lived? Kira:  I still consider myself a New Yorker, even though I no longer am in New York. I think some people can live there for one year and they feel like it's in them forever. For me, I was there for 12 years, so I feel like the 12 years, that counts. But, I'm sure there are New Yorkers who'd say, "You're not a true New Yorker." That's what I love about New York. So, to me, that always felt like home. That was my dream. That was my big dream in college, is I was in Virginia, I was like, "Just move to New York and you've made it in life." Even now that I'm out of there, I don't miss it necessarily, I miss parts of it, I'm really happy where I am in D.C. I like my life here, but I still feel like that's a part of me. I take New York City with me wherever I go. Nothing really has topped that for me. Rob:  So, what's your very best New York City experience? Kira:  I think there are a collection. Rob:  No, no, no, you have to name just one. Narrow it down to one. Kira:  Okay. There's swimming in the lake in the middle of Central Park, is definitely a New York City moment, I think before the cops kicked us out of the lake. It was very late at night, a little fuzzy, but a lot of fun. And so, it just felt like a true New York experience to swim in that lake and jump in there when we weren't supposed to be in there. Also, I think it's less about the one experience, and, for me, as I look back at that time, it was mostly in my 20s, and so it was really more about the people you're with in New York. That's where I made some of my best friends. It was with those women, and that's what I take from New York, is just that group of women. Because, it didn't matter what we did, we bonded during that time because there's nothing like living your 20s in New York City. It's just nuts. It's just a nuts experience. And, I had my kids in New York as well, which was almost an entirely different lifetime, moving to Brooklyn and raising kids in New York, which was dramatically different than my time there with friends in my 20s. But, I'm glad I had both experiences, just two different experiences in that city. They were both fun, in different ways. Rob:  Okay. So, what's something that locals in New York City do that tourists don't, but maybe we should when we show up there? Kira:  I was reviewing your questions, because I like to prepare, and I started digging through my emails from 2010, because this is where I got into writing. To continue to expand on that, I became the New York City Examiner writer, that was a whole thing, theexaminer.com. And so, I would go on adventures in New York City, and then I would write about them. That's how I fell in love with writing, because it forced me to go out and have these really interesting experiences, because I had to write about it. I don't even think I was getting paid, but it was assignment. So, doing that, I did find these really interesting experiences, and I was trying to find the link to all of them, but that site has shut down. Some of the ones I remember that I liked were actually StreetWars, this experience called StreetWars, which is like the Assassin game, a live-action game for players to basically eliminate each other. We played this game, StreetWars, and you played it in the entire city. So, for three weeks I was just paranoid walking anywhere in the city, because I thought someone was going to shoot me as part of the game. So, if you're a paranoid person, you probably should not play that game. I don't know if that's still going on, but it changed my experience in New York City, because it turned it into just a playground. It was already a playground, but it was even more of a playground playing this interactive game. Rob:  Wait, I want to stop there for a second though, because it's really funny that you would say that because I think there's maybe a perception by people who don't live in New York that New York's a really dangerous city. And, that you would have a game that... Obviously you're not really getting shot, but that's playing on that danger- Kira:  Right, it's like a water... Rob:  ... is kind of funny. I wouldn't even expect that as somebody showing up in New York for a few days, or even a few weeks. Kira:  It's a weird game. I don't think I would play it today. I think I have enough stress in my life today that I don't need to add more stress- Rob:  Getting shot in the grocery store, yeah. Kira:  ... where I think everyone... I would get on the subway and I assumed everyone was playing the game and anyone was stalking me or could pull out a water pistol and shoot me with water at any point during those three weeks. I was highly paranoid, so I don't recommend it, again. The game's probably shut down by now, but it just was so much fun. And then, the other one that's a little bit more toned down, that I also wrote about for The Examiner, was Bargemusic. So, it's a floating concert hall under the Brooklyn Bridge. That was something that just was one of those experiences that I would not have found unless I was seeking it out as a writer trying to find cool experiences. Rob:  Is that live music on a- Kira:  Yeah, live music. Tiny little concert hall on the barge. It's just one of those moments in New York you're just like, "It doesn't get better than this." There were multiple moments like that, but I wouldn't have sought them out if I had not been a writer. So, I think it's just interesting to go back to how writing can change the way we live our lives, and writing can actually be a tool for us to use to live a richer life, and to seek out new opportunities that we might not find normally. And so, I don't think I realize how many experiences I had because I had to write about it back then. Rob:  That's really interesting. That's the thing I love about New York, there's limitless, not just opportunities to do things, but to invent things, to be things. It's got to be the most creative city in the world.

Our guest for the 269th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is Lindsey Walker. Lindsey is a public relations expert who owns Walker + Associates Media Group – a boutique public relations agency. Lindsey helps her clients position themselves for visibility and growth. If you want to increase your visibility and authority in the online space, tune into the episode to find actionable steps you can take to increase your impact and grow your brand. Lindsey’s journey into the public relations world and starting a freelance business. The roles that characterize a publicity firm and finding a team that will help you scale your business. How to shift from solopreneur to leader and CEO. – What do you need to have in place? Defining the type of CEO you want to become and how you can begin to look strategically at your business. The process of working with someone in public relations. – What happens first? How long it takes to expect results from PR. How copywriters need to think about their business from a PR standpoint. Are you the bottleneck in your business? The 3 elements to DIY public relations in your business. How to break through when you don’t have connections or people on the inside. How to successfully pitch yourself and the biggest mistakes you need to avoid. The different opportunities to pitch yourself depending on the season and time of year. How to break into the PR space as a writer. The difference between in-house and freelance PR writers. The impact that mindset plays in public relations and how to put yourself out there. When it’s a good idea to think about PR in your business. What is the future of public relations? What Lindsey learned from a life-threatening experience and how it applies to her business today. Advice for business owners who are going through difficult situations. How to handle rejection when sending pitches. Will Kira and Rob become influencers?! PR is an essential tool to grow your business and create a lasting impact. Be sure to grab your earbuds or check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground The Copywriter Club Accelerator waitlist  Lindsey’s website Mai-kee’s website Episode 229 with Selena Soo Episode 151 with Patsy Kenney Episode 150 with Brigitte Lyons Episode 152 with Mai-kee    Full Transcript: Rob:  One of the most important activities that you do as a copywriting business owner is marketing, and that can take a lot of forms, everything from cold pitching to social media, and almost literally 100 other activities. Continually marketing yourself and your business is the thing that attracts clients to your door. If you want to succeed long term as a copywriter, you can't ignore this activity. Today's guest on The Copywriter Club Podcast is publicist and PR expert, Lindsey Walker. She knows a thing or two about attracting attention to your business. We met Lindsey when she reached out to pitch a guest for our podcast, and while that particular person wasn't a fit, when we heard Lindsey's story, we knew that she would be. Stick around to hear what she shared about getting people to pay attention to what you are doing in your business. But before we get to all of that, let me introduce my guest host for this episode, Mai-kee Tsang. Hey, Mai-kee. Mai-kee:  Hey, Rob. Lovely to be here. I'm not Kira, but she's here with us in spirit. Rob:  Nope. Kira was with us on the initial interview. Yeah, it's just you and me to talk about all of that. Mai-kee:  Exciting stuff. Rob:  Yeah. If you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you'll remember that Mai-kee shared how she pitched 101 podcast in 30 days way back on episode 152. It's a really good episode. I'll remind you again at the end to listen to it, but make a mental note because you're definitely going to want to check that out. Then one more thing before we jump into our interview, this podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Accelerator. That's our program for copywriters who want to lay a solid foundation under their business and get all of the pieces lined up for success in the coming new year. It runs for 16 weeks, covers everything from business mindset and figuring out your X factor and your unique mechanism to creating products and pricing and services and working with clients and all of those things, as well as marketing yourself and attracting the right clients into your business. Do yourself a favor and visit Thecopywriteraccelerator.com and get yourself on the wait list right now. We'll be opening the doors again in just a few weeks. Okay. Let's hear from Lindsey and how she got her start as a publicist and a PR expert. Lindsey:  I have always loved all things communications. I grew up with my grandmother. She would always have the news turned on on someone's news station. I fell in love with journalism. I've always written in my journal poetry, just things like that. Initially, I thought that I was going to be a writer. But in my senior year of high school, I got the opportunity to participate in this program called the Minority Journalism Workshop, and I will never forget it because it was so instrumental in just where I am today. We had the opportunity to pick between careers and I had just finished reading this fiction book and the lady was an account executive in the book. She was a publicist, and so I was like, "You know what? It sounds interesting. Let me see what this is about." Oh my gosh. So awesome. I got a chance to learn so many things about publicity and how to work with journalism, put together releases and press conferences and all of those things. I majored in it in college. I did a ton of internships and I just started my own business as a freelancer once I graduated because I wasn't able to find a position back at home. But that's pretty much how I got started in the industry. Rob:  Tell us a little bit more about that, what you were doing as a freelancer and basically just what it was that you were doing to find places to publish, to do your work, all that kind of stuff. Lindsey:  Yeah. What's so interesting is that I landed my first three clients. I landed two of them from Twitter, I landed another one from LinkedIn. I just put it out there that, "Hey, I'm a freelancer." I used my portfolio from the internships that I've done and people, they gave me an opportunity, they gave me a chance, and so I was able to get them placements. I used those first freelance clients to buy my LLC and to have my company name, which at the time we were PR Mentality. Then it just grew from there with getting more retainer clients the more that I got results. I was also connecting with other people in the industry so that they could mentor me, and I really, really just went all in with making sure that I serviced the clients that I had very well so that we could grow. Rob:  I know this is journalism, and we usually talk about copy, ad copy, marketing copy, that kind of thing. But tell us the kinds of things that you were writing and where you were publishing. Lindsey:  Yeah. For me, I'm on the opposite side of the journalism table. I write the media pitches and then the editors will decide if they want to write and do the story. I target outlets like the New York Times, CBS This Morning, Fox, Refinery29, Essence, Black Enterprise, those types of publications based upon what my client's overall message is and what their overall goals are, and I'm able to put together and package a pitch that I know that the editors will be interested in. That's how I begin to identify those targets, the editors, the writers, and then based upon what they've been covering, what they've been publishing, I'll reach out to them to garner their interest. Kira:  Lindsey, let's talk about what your business looks like today, structurally. How many clients do you typically work with? Are they mostly retainers and how many team members do you have? Lindsey:  Yes. Our clients mostly are on a retainer basis. Right now we're taking between eight to 10 clients on roster. On the team, we just hired someone. I think now we're up to a team of four, four or five. No, it's four, including me. Okay. We have two account executives which help me to work with the accounts and help me to manage who we're pitching to and what the status of things are. We have a virtual assistant that really helps handle the backend of getting our email sequences and our marketing together. Then I'm now testing out the role of actually bringing on a copywriter to have someone to help us build out those email sequences as well. Those are the roles that we have. Rob:  Lindsey, as you've grown your business, how did you step through who was the first hire, who was the next hire? How did you identify what the need was and then find the people to bring them into your business? Lindsey:  Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's important to note I've been in business for nine years, and eight out of those nine years, really about seven and a half out of those nine years, I was a solopreneur. I did all the things myself and I got to a point where I figured out I just cannot do and be all things and do and be them well. Right? One of the first positions I created a role for was virtual assistant because I'm like, "If I could just get someone to handle my copy, my content for social media, handling the backends of email marketing, then that would help me to focus a little bit more on client structures." Then as we started to get more clients, it was just like, "Okay, we need to hire out for the actual account executive positions so that we can take on more clients." That was pretty much the thought process, but definitely a virtual assistant was the first hire that I made because I knew, number one,