

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
HR Heretics
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Episodes
Mentioned books

May 3, 2024 • 50min
Getting to the Bottom of Skill Shortages, Burnout & Engagement: Kristy McCann Flynn, SkillCycle CEO
Seasoned HR professional Kristy McCann Flynn discusses the changing role of HR, importance of aligning HR initiatives with business outcomes, why HR software purchasing power might be changing, and why HR practitioners need to address the skills gap in a new way.

May 2, 2024 • 14min
Politics in the Workplace is Just Distracting
Discussions on Google firing protestors and workplace disruptions, exploring the line between protest and disruption, Google's response to the controversy, alternative ways to voice dissent, and the future of workplace politics

11 snips
Apr 26, 2024 • 51min
The Architect of the Paypal Mafia: Peterson Conway
Guest Peterson Conway, headhunter and advisor to Silicon Valley greats, shares hiring insights and stories. He emphasizes curiosity, optimism, and unconventional hiring practices. Discussions include talent profiles, personal growth, CRM exploration, and risky recruiting strategies in chaotic events.

Apr 23, 2024 • 13min
Shopify's Zero Sum Mastery Program
Nolan and Kelli discuss Shopify's Mastery Program where employee raises are tied to their mastery score, creating a competitive workplace environment. They compare this approach to traditional performance evaluation systems and delve into the implications of internal competition. The podcast explores the evolution of performance rating systems and innovative strategies for employee involvement in performance management.

Apr 18, 2024 • 47min
Leadership Development: Can We Keep Up With AI?: A Conversation with Adam Weber, Chief Evangelist at 15five
Adam Weber, Chief Evangelist at 15Five, discusses the importance of upskilling leadership development to adapt to AI in HR. He advocates for courage in business, valuing individual contributors, and building high-performance cultures. The podcast explores personal growth, leadership challenges, and the evolving role of HR in meeting business expectations.

Apr 16, 2024 • 16min
No Makeup, No Offer?
HR expert Colleen McCreary joins Kelli Dragovich to discuss a viral post about a VP candidate denied a job for not wearing makeup. They dive into workplace appearance norms, legal perspectives on hiring, navigating interview feedback, and authenticity at work.

Apr 11, 2024 • 50min
Lean Mindset, Business Impact and the New Era of HR: Jeff Diana, former CPO of Calendly
Former CPO of Calendly, Jeff Diana, talks about the importance of driving shareholder value in HR, aligning with business outcomes, and building strong relationships with CEOs. He discusses navigating career choices, HR program cuts, and power dynamics in company leadership.

Apr 9, 2024 • 14min
Pedigree is Overrated. McKinsey is Paying Employees to Quit
McKinsey's unique approach of offering consultants a payout to depart, navigating employee exits, redefining credentials and skills in the job market, practical skills over academic achievement, and changing employment dynamics.

Apr 4, 2024 • 45min
The State of Startups in 2023 and 2024: A Conversation with Peter Walker of Carta
Peter Walker, Head of Insights at Carta, discusses startup compensation trends in 2023, VC challenges in 2024, honesty in HR around equity structures, and advice for evaluating startup offers with an investor mindset.

Apr 2, 2024 • 13min
Remote vs. In-Person
The podcast discusses the ongoing debate between remote and in-person work environments, emphasizing the importance of considering career stage, work-life tradeoffs, and serendipitous encounters. It explores the significance of in-office experiences for networking, understanding career seasons, and the value of work culture in shaping professional growth.