

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
HR Heretics
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Episodes
Mentioned books

14 snips
Oct 9, 2025 • 23min
Fractional Work's Dirty Secret: How to Do a Full-Time Job in 25 Hours - Insights from Sally Thornton, Forshay
Sally Thornton, CEO and founder of Forshay, shares her insights on fractional executive work. She reveals the trust barriers companies face when hiring fractionally and the surprising truth that it often means doing a full-time job in less time. Sally emphasizes the need for strong consulting skills over traditional experience and discusses the evolving market dynamics post-COVID. She also outlines the importance of transparent pricing models and advises candidates to focus on finding the right fit rather than rushing into roles.

12 snips
Oct 7, 2025 • 24min
Building Culture-First Companies: Insights from Culture Amp's CEO, Didier Elzinga
Didier Elzinga, CEO of Culture Amp and co-founder focused on employee experience, dives into building culture-first companies. He emphasizes that growth is the key driver of employee engagement. Didier reveals that trust in leadership matters more than trust in direct management for retention. He discusses the importance of structured reviews to reduce gender gaps and advocates using data to influence leadership perspectives. The conversation also highlights the balance of empathy and accountability as crucial for fostering a thriving workplace culture.

21 snips
Oct 2, 2025 • 28min
Building Elite Teams at Coinbase with L.J. Brock
In a revealing discussion, LJ Brock, the Chief People Officer at Coinbase, shares insights on radical HR practices. He discusses Coinbase's mission-first policy that led to banning political discussions at work, fostering unexpected growth. Also highlighted are talent density standards and the company's refusal to negotiate salaries, designed to attract elite talent. LJ elaborates on innovative hiring methods like work trials and one-year stock grants as strategies to enhance equity and align with market realities.

Sep 30, 2025 • 29min
The H-1B Shakeup: Immigration Program Redesign and Alternative Pathways
Kelli and Nolan dive into the recent H1B visa policy shakeup, discussing its chaotic rollout and the impact on tech hiring. They explore how companies are adapting to this uncertainty with hiring pauses and new strategies like H1B transfers. The conversation shifts to a recap of the Confluent People Team offsite, highlighting spirited discussions on pay equity and the value of diverse viewpoints. They also share a light-hearted fashion roast, contrasting Nolan's polished look with Kelli's casual style, all while emphasizing the benefits of curiosity and disagreement in professional growth.

26 snips
Sep 25, 2025 • 33min
A CPO's First 90 Days
Kelli and Nolan offer invaluable advice for Chief People Officers starting their journey. They discuss three core goals: building trust, achieving quick wins, and establishing a strong brand. The importance of deep executive relationships and ground-level listening is highlighted, along with strategic planning before day one. Tips on communicating effectively, managing expectations, and prioritizing people team hires are essential takeaways. They emphasize the importance of framing HR objectives in business language for better alignment.

Sep 23, 2025 • 33min
$100K H-1B Fee? Analyzing Trump’s Policy with Nicole Gunara of Manifest Law
Nicole Gunara, Principal immigration attorney at Manifest Law, dives into the $100K H-1B policy that has sent Silicon Valley into a frenzy. She breaks down the proclamation's complexities, including confusing definitions around renewals and transfers. Employers learn to audit their pipelines and explore alternative visa routes like E-3 and O-1 to mitigate risks. The discussion reveals how this shift favors big tech over startups, aligning with governmental goals to prioritize domestic talent. Tune in for insightful strategies and future implications!

Sep 18, 2025 • 44min
Nextdoor’s CPO on “The Great AI Divide”: Tinkerers vs Resisters
Bryan Power, Head of People at Nextdoor, brings extensive expertise in AI and people operations. He discusses the transformative potential of AI in the workplace, emphasizing the importance of treating AI as teammates. Bryan shares insights on Project Neighbor and practical strategies like scheduling one-on-ones with custom GPTs. He also advocates for hands-on AI training and low-stakes tinkering to empower employees. The conversation wraps up with a humorous segment on despised corporate jargon, blending serious insights with lighthearted fun.

8 snips
Sep 16, 2025 • 23min
The Death of Traditional VC: Why Platform Shifts Demand People-First Investors, with Katelin Holloway of Seven Seven Six
Katelin Holloway, Founding Partner of Seven Seven Six, emphasizes the unmatched skills HR professionals possess for early-stage investing. She argues for their evolution from support roles to key decision-makers by fostering strong relationships with founders. The conversation touches upon creating human-centric venture capital, advocating for genuine connections in the startup ecosystem. Katelin also shares personal insights from her Pixar days, linking innovative HR practices to corporate success. Discover how people-first strategies can transform investment landscapes!

14 snips
Sep 11, 2025 • 21min
Applying Design Thinking to People Operations with Iain Roberts, Airbnb
Iain Roberts, Global Head of Employee Experience at Airbnb and former IDEO designer, shares insights on transforming HR through design thinking. He discusses redefining leadership and collaboration in large organizations, showcasing how innovative structures lead to better team cohesion. Iain explores Airbnb's 'Live and Work Anywhere' policy, highlighting tailored strategies for collaboration. He also delves into evolving workforce dynamics, using AI to navigate changes in workplace approaches post-pandemic and advocating for customized employee experiences.

Sep 9, 2025 • 34min
The AI Expectations Crash with Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos
Siadhal Magos, CEO of Metaview, delves into the reality of enterprise AI adoption and its disconnect from inflated expectations. He discusses the 'Trough of Disillusionment' and the importance of understanding the journey toward productive AI use. The conversation highlights the need for incremental improvements in recruiting workflows, focusing on practical strategies for integrating AI in organizations. Siadhal emphasizes the role of human nature in technology adoption, advocating for direct engagement and demonstrations to bridge expectations.