Transforming Work with Sophie Wade

David Abrams is the co-founder and CEO of HILO, a platform that is digitizing customer experience to create connected communities of people in buildings. David is also host of the TEN, the Tenant Experience Network podcast. David brings his entrepreneurial and marketing background and context to explore commercial real estate landlords’, owners’, and occupiers’ evolving circumstances. He explains why they need to be collaborating to create hospitality-driven, new tech-enhanced environments and programmed experiences for tenants—for each individually and together as a community.     TAKEAWAYS   [02:29] David takes a while to sort out what he wants to study at college ending up focusing on marketing and accounting.   [03:01] David enjoys the ability accounting gives him to explore how businesses operate.   [03:49] As a first entrepreneurial opportunity, David gets involved in repositioning a struggling agency.   [04:58] Early agency clients span commercial real estate and nonprofit, the latter which David finds especially satisfying.    [05:45] Raw Society is launched to focus on critical strategic work before the creative process begins.   [07:15] The ESG movement makes building operators start to think about environmental impact.    [07:52] What is the effect of the densification of people living and working in central business districts?   [09:13] New thinking is first driven by occupants, relating to basic ESG initiatives like recycling.   [10:14] Operators go paperless, initiating digital communications their tenants’ employees.    [11:32] David loves the opportunity to start creating environments that people enjoyed being in.   [12:16] The smartest operators recognized they could develop better relationships and community by connecting their tenants.    [12:55] The ultimate goal is to improve tenant retention through better customer service and experiences.   [14:09] Every building has constant turnover—both tenants and tenants’ employees.   [14:51] David launches his new company in 2019, gets financing and is in full growth mode when the pandemic hits.   [15:37] As an entrepreneur, David recognizes his two choices - give up or dig in.    [17:38] With little clarity about the future, they tried to be pragmatic about future technology needs.   [21:30] New realizations emerge after a difficult period that extended operators’ boundaries.   [23:09] Operators realize their responsibility to be involved in spaces beyond their buildings.   [24:24] Extra costs can be covered by charging premium rent or sharing new community spaces.    [26:20] Connectivity is a huge driver of experience when it is pervasive and consistent.   [27:18] Investments go into programming, content, services and staff to offer white glove experiences.   [28:51] Office and multifamily categories are all hiring people from the hospitality industry.   [29:37] Programming, services, and staffing are becoming integral and significant to buildings’ offerings.   [31:00] The key factor is not the size of the building, but the commitment of its ownership.   [31:49] Across building classes, technology can be an equalizer to provide higher levels of service.   [34:05] Technology delivers better experiences and reduces friction when people choose to enter the built world.   [35:27] How can we put the power of personalization into the hands of the individual?   [36:29] David imagines we are between first and second base in the evolution of office buildings.   [37:15] People need to congregate for the right reasons in the right environments to do the right kind of work.   [39:49] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Occupiers and landlords need to think beyond the work that needs to get done in an office and co-create experiences that support good work. Consider all the various touchpoints for each person across technology, programming, content, services and staffing.       RESOURCES   David Abrams on LinkedIn David’s company HILO’s website HILO on Instagram TEN – The Tenant Experience Network     QUOTES   “Buildings are not silos. They're part of a neighborhood, they're part of a city and they create community.”   “It's a conversation around where should I work on any given day where can great work happen?”   “How can we put the power of personalization into the hands of the individual. How can they use technology to better connect and engage with all the various spaces and places in their lives and have it not be top down driven.”   “People need to come together for the right reasons in the right environments with the right people to do the right kind of work.”   “The occupier and the landlord need to be open minded. They need to think beyond just the work that needs to get done and start to think about creating an experience that will support great work.”

Dr Zofia Bajorek is a Senior Research Fellow at the Institute of Employment Studies (UK). She was HR Magazine’s Most Influential Thinker in 2022 and 2023. Zofia’s recent work has focused on the quality of work to improve workforce health and wellbeing. She describes why giving employees good quality work improves results, why good work matters, and what it comprises. Zofia explains how good management contributes significantly to employee retention and well-being.     KEY TAKEAWAYS   [02:33] Zofia studied psychology to understand how people think, as well as behavior change, why and how we do things.   [04:17] Zofia’s Master’s focuses on the Future of Work and occupational stress/health at work.   [05:03] Zofia is curious about temporary work arrangements after her own—voluntary—experience.   [06:18] Temporary workers’ different agency and autonomy affects their experiences and health.   [08:01] Zofia’s PhD analyzes temporary staff management and patient care in NHS emergency departments.   [08:47] Possible safety/quality effects when emergency dept. employees get temporary assignments.   [09:42] NHS ‘bank’ and agency staff differences highlight many important talent management nuances.   [11:56] A systems approach to analyzing the UK’s ‘Speedy Summary Justice” – the promise.   [12:45] The effect of disconnects in a system that is overworked, underpaid, and understaffed.   [13:50] The practical reality of human messiness and how organizations and people work.   [15:02] Evidence shows workers’ health and wellbeing affects their productivity and retention.   [16:00] Q: What interventions make the biggest difference to employees’ health and well-being?   [16:50] A: Good management and good employment relationships are the most impactful.   [18:05] In 2006, two researchers discover “Work IS good for your health IF it’s good quality work.”   [18:26] People don’t really know what good quality work is.   [19:27] Good work includes: varied tasks that match interests and skills, co-collaboration, having a voice, autonomy and a fair work environment, with growth opportunities and strong work relationships.   [22:50] “Secure work” depends on the contractual arrangement—imposed or two-way.   [24:24] To achieve a healthy workplace with engaged employees, good quality work is essential.   [25:42] An important factor is someone’s choice about the work they have and can do.   [26:27] Zero-hour contracts are detrimental when managed badly with no communication or flexibility.   [27:28] Freelancers can have good choices: clients, autonomy, relationships, and interesting work.   [28:48] Empathizing is important to discover what encourages people to work, their values, what they bring to the workplace.   [30:26] Companies with embedded focus on wellbeing and good work pre-pandemic were able to transition well through and beyond the crisis.   [31:36] Good management practices including consistent communication, listening, and workplace policies.   [32:15] Zofia shares some examples of data points companies can colligate to increase understanding of their employees’ well-being.   [37:32] The challenges facing organizations are numerous, but a lot of the change can be addressed with good management practices.   [43:55] Young and old want the same thing from the workplace, but demographic pressures are changing the face of retirement.   [47:46] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Good work requires good managers. Ensure those promoted to managerial positions have people management skills and technical excellence. They need training, coaching support, and feedback to help them continue to improve.     RESOURCES   Dr. Zofia Bajorek on Linkedin  Follow Dr. Bajorek on X @DrZofia Website for employment-studies.co.uk The Institute for Employment Studies Interesting articles by Dr. Bajorek: ‘People leave managers, not companies’ - but is the manager really at fault? Are we ‘pulling more sickies’ or do organisations need to focus more on ‘good work’? Health and wellbeing at work: where we are and where we want to be It’s time to stop squeezing the ‘squeezed middle’, for everyone’s benefit Will management ‘productivity paranoia’ be the undoing of hybrid work? The line management conundrum – let’s hug and not squeeze our line managers     QUOTES (edited)   “If we don't look after people's health and well-being in the workplace it can have an impact on both retention and productivity levels.”   “Work is good for your health, but there is a strong caveat that it has to be good quality work. And that is where we are still struggling because people don't know what good quality work is.”   “Every human has fluctuating mental health. But what's important for the workplace is that work doesn't make it worse.”   “If you want good work and good health, you have to have good management.”

Dr. Gleb Tsipursky is the CEO of Disaster Avoidance Experts, a consulting, coaching, and training firm. Gleb is a behavioral scientist and best-selling author of seven books, including “Never Go With Your Gut” and “Leading Hybrid and Remote Teams”. He shares his interest in human behaviors focused on decision-making and cognitive biases. Gleb explains his passion to help people make good decisions, discussing the role of emotions, and why to try to prove yourself wrong. He emphasizes how to optimize work-related decisions to improve working environments, experiences, policies, and outcomes.       TAKEAWAYS   [02:59] Interested in human behaviors, Gleb studies history--people in their historical contexts.   [03:53] Gleb narrows his research to behavioral science decision-making in historical and contemporary contexts.   [04:53] Gleb’s interest focuses on motivations and historical archives reveal what people were saying behind the scenes.   [05:39] We’re not very good at making decisions. We often follow our intuition or go with our gut.   [06:32] How a client’s early experiences affect how he handles conflict as a business leader.   [07:41] How do individuals and groups make decisions? What motivations cause what effects?   [08:12] How to have healthy conflicts with people.   [09:32] How do you make good decisions, proofing yourself against future disruptions?   [10:50] Decision hygiene—identify biases including not what you don’t do, that's a decision too!   [13:55] How you can misperceive yourself, your skills.   [15:04] Blind spots and how humans are full of contradictions.   [16:42] Gleb’s early books about different aspects of decision making.   [17:29] Before making a decision ask: Q1 - What information haven't I fully understood yet?   [19:28] Q2: What judgment errors haven't I fully considered?   [20:30] The need to be introspective about our emotions so they don't dictate our decisions.   [21:50] Gleb starts his own company, Disaster Avoidance Experts, in 2018.   [22:30] Gleb’s targets people whose possible bad decisions could have disastrous consequences.    [23:35] Paying attention to leading indicators to make informed decisions early in the pandemic.   [24:49] The challenges belief bias and confirmation bias can cause.   [26:30] What comparable data is relevant to ensure you are making good decisions?   [29:40] Looking at the data and challenging the motivation to be back in the office—for what?   [31:10] Managers weren't comfortable that they could control their teams working remotely.   [31:56] Combining training and techniques to not manage by walking around the office.   [33:04] Switching to weekly performance evaluations with three to five goals per week.   [35:27] Coaching style leadership was gaining ground long before the pandemic.   [38:32] College educated males choose to work fewer hours, valuing well-being and leisure more than before the pandemic.   [40:02] Research and resignations show willingness to take a 10% pay cut to keep flexibility.   [40:38] The impact of not being empathetic about your employees.   [42:37] What is best for knowledge workers? Not sitting in factory style offices.   [43:22] For knowledge work: creativity and collaboration of the human mind determine any company’s value add.   [44:33] The four principles of knowledge work to set up workplaces of the future.   [45:44] To establish trust, new systems and processes are needed including regular performance evaluations.   [47:20] Don't let one bad apple spoil it for others.   [49:35] Finding truth through content curation versus creation in an AI-powered world.   [51:40] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: To adapt to modern work, survey employees about they feel about hybrid work, best practices, problems, and opportunities for improvement. Focus conversations on trust, autonomy, support, and collaboration.     RESOURCES   Dr Gleb Tsipursky on LinkedIn Gleb Tsipursky on X Dr Gleb Tsipursky on Instagram Facebook at DrGlebTsipursky Dr. Gleb Tsipursky speaker video Dr. Gleb Tsipursky’s books include: The Truth-Seeker’s Handbook: A Science-Based Guide.    Never Go With Your Gut: How Pioneering Leaders Make the Best Decisions and Avoid Business Disasters  Returning to the Office and Leading Hybrid and Remote Teams: A Manual on Benchmarking to Best Practices for Competitive Advantage   QUOTES   “People often don't know what their own motivations are. They don't know how they interact, and they don't understand why they make the decisions they do. We're not very good at making decisions. We often just follow our intuition; we go with our gut.”   “There was research showing that in order to have healthy conflicts with people, you should follow a 5:1 ratio. For each one conflictual thing you do at least five equivalently positive things.”   “Taking all the social intelligence, emotional intelligence, and cognitive biases. If you can identify those in yourself right now, you can really set up set yourself up for a lot of success down the line.”   “We are human beings, we are full of contradictions.”   “Seeing the truth is very important to make a good decision, but that's not the same thing as making a good decision.”   “If you actually want to make a good decision what you want to do is try to prove yourself wrong. Try to prove that your decision is incorrect. Try to disconfirm your decision.”   “One issue is the empathy gap. We might underestimate the emotions that other people are experiencing. One of the biggest challenges in business decision making is failure to think sufficiently about emotions, our own emotions and other people's emotions. We don't realize how important emotions are.”    “Not being empathetic and understanding emotions matters. The emotions of your employees matter. How they feel matters. And they're actually taking steps based on their feelings around retention, engagement, productivity, morale.”   “Knowledge workers function best as a combination of providing them with trust, trusting them to work in the way that they know how; providing with autonomy, having control over their time and location of work; providing them with necessary and appropriate support, giving them knowledge, information, tools: and facilitating their collaboration with others.”

Amina Moreau is the CEO and co-Founder of Radious, an online marketplace offering companies flexible work locations to give their employees commute-free, homestyle, collaborative workspaces. She is a serial entrepreneur, multiple Emmy-winning filmmaker, and photographer. Amina explains why employers need to create a framework and processes that enable workplace flexibility and support employees’ autonomy, incorporating comfortable and convenient work environments. Amina shares insights about empathetic leadership and upskilled managers to improve employees’ experiences and performance. She describes critical environmental and social components of new workplace solutions.     KEY TAKEAWAYS   [02:38] Amina changes majors five times exploring what she wants to be when she grows up!   [03:35] Amina loves photography but also thinks learning how the brain works is handy.   [4:40] Storytelling means understanding who people are and how they think and see their future.   [05:49] Amina’s first business initially emphasizes innovative technology and equipment.   [07:04] Taking wedding storytelling to the next level – what has shaped who these people are?   [07:44] Tomatoes are a metaphor for one couple’s relationship.   [09:22] How relationships evolve on film and with clients.   [10:46] Entrepreneurship is Amina’s path—starting in her dorm room.   [11:47] A talent for seeing gaps in the market spawns multiple new ventures.   [12;15] Amina develops opportunities related to her core passion.   [14:30] Pandemic-related issues are the genesis for non-profit Float Small Business.   [15:43] Creative ground support for local businesses keeps Amina busy during a tough period.   [17:34] A new venture to suit flexible workstyles emerges from their Airbnb host business.   [19:22] Eliminating the overnight component increases safety and solves other hosting pain points.   [21:25] New adaptations as employers integrate remote policies for the long term.   [23:30] A compelling combination: no commuting, collaboration space, and the comforts of home.   [24:28] Who pays for the space? Shifting to a B2B model.   [26:24] Current RTO headlines don’t match the majority of companies’ work policies.   [27:50] Amina believes most companies are trying hybrid as they are stuck with office leases.   [28:38] The benefits of flexible, on-demand office spaces and who is likely to benefit most.   [32:12] Have leaders who proclaim remote work isn’t sustainable been trained to manage in remote/hybrid environments?   [34:20] Terminology needs to evolve to reflect the variety of remote work options and benefits.   [35:58] Empathetic leadership leads to better team outcome for which leaders need upskilling.   [36:58] Team level agreements need setting about expectations and communication styles.   [38:35] How much autonomy is optimal to drive motivation and outcomes?   [39:27] Companies signing up for flexible workspaces need a framework and process to ensure their employees use it.   [40:22] Working with companies to understand their context and help them choose relevant workspaces.   [41:29] Amina’s sense of purpose that energizes her and the team—we’re here to help bring fulfillment and work/life balance.   [43:35] Radious’s core environmental and social solutions are significant motivators for Amina.   [44:40] Local workspaces also support community relationships and business.   [46:04] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: It doesn’t have to be a two-sided equation — either working at the office or from home. There are many other options to consider to support your employees, which don’t have the costs or commute of an office, yet offer camaraderie and community.     RESOURCES   Amina Moreau on LinkedIn Radious.pro Radious on X @RadiousPro Radious on Instagram @Radious.Pro     QUOTES (edited)   “One of the best things that you can study is how people think because in any profession, understanding how the brain works is kind of handy.”   “It turns out that having a psychology background is really valuable in storytelling.”   “There are some companies that from the beginning of the pandemic were hell-bent on getting people back to the office. Come hell or high water, those companies still exist. Thankfully, they are in the minority.”   “The headlines we see about RTO are usually made by the biggest companies on the planet which have the largest PR megaphones … and the largest real estate holdings.”   “A lot of people equate remote work with working from home, but remote work is now an umbrella term that encompasses a wide variety of ways, and places to work from. And it doesn't have to be in isolation.”

Tom Hunt is the Founder and CEO of Fame which builds profitable podcasts. Tom is also host of the podcast “Confessions of a B2B Marketer”. He leads a fast-growing fully-remote company and shares his journey intentionally learning effective leadership styles, management methods, and organizational practices. Tom discusses what he looks for in successful leaders and how he purposefully develops and upskills inexperienced employees.   KEY TAKEAWAYS   [03:01] Why Tom goes from studying chemistry to consulting.   [04:11] A pivotal role working on outsourcing projects happens by chance.   [05:19] Tom realizes being employed is not his thing and focuses on selling online.   [06:32] Tom's first venture leverages his experiences outsourcing for large companies.   [07:33] Tom focuses on what he enjoys doing and is good at.   [08:41] The ability to fail and keep going is one of the best predictors of success.   [09:53] The genesis of Fame and how they landed their first client.   [11:19] Tom shares the multifaceted benefits of being transparent about Fame’s earnings.   [13:36] Empathy is a crucial skill for leaders which takes more effort in distributed settings.   [16:14] The benefit of paying attention to signals in asynchronous communications.   [16:50] Continuing to explore how best to nurture distributed culture and connection.   [17:56] Building culture through values awards.   [18:29] Impactful for remote cultures: client-focused operational excellence and engaging elements in team meetings.   [20:51] Employees are trained in interviews to assess for specific work history criteria.   [23:19] Office space has been considered and Tom explains what issues it would create.   [25:00] Fame's business is output-driven and well-defined effectively supported by strong, positive performance management.   [26:59] intentional training and management engages and retains employees and adds value to less experienced hires.   [27:45] Multi-touchpoint, frequent check-ins—with superiors and peers—help account managers grow.   [28:35] The intentional approach to help supervising managers improve too.   [30:45] The onboarding process is a key value add driver for Fame, continually evolving and being improved.   [31:34] One employee's career development and why upskilling people builds strong cultures.   [33:03] Tom promotes employees’ proactive and self-determined progression.   [33:57] Study of leadership focuses Tom on creating cohesion, communicating with clarity, and reinforcing the clarity.   [36:24] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: For leaders of fully distributed teams, use live interaction time with team members wisely to collect and convey information to improve people’s work lives. Don’t take those meetings for granted. You have to do your best work as a remote leader.     RESOURCES   Tom Hunt on LinkedIn X @TomHuntio Instagram @TomHuntio Fame.so Confessions of a B2B Marketer podcast Top Grading by Brad and Geoff Smart High Output Management by Andy Grove The Advantage by Patrick Lencioni   QUOTES (edited)   "The thing that I was looking for most with angel investing was founder resilience. Had this founder failed before and kept going? The ability to pivot, tweak things, and then go forward is probably the most important at that very early stage."   "Empathy for each individual is one of the crucial aspects of leading. If you understand how each person is feeling, you can tailor your approach to working with them to maximize the output for both them personally and their group."   "We decided that if a team member meets another team member in person, whether they’re doing work or not, they get an allowance for that meeting to be spent on anything. It’s a decentralized campaign that promotes in-person interaction, which benefits the company and the individual."   "It’s not a process in which we try to fire somebody. It’s a process in which we’re looking to support someone to perform better."   “The monthly chat with managers is the review of: ‘What’s gone well this month? What’s not gone so well? What do you want to more of?’ and we’ve added in ‘How can I be a better manager for you?’”   "If you have something that you want to learn or do and there’s a business need for that thing and you’ve mastered your current role, then you can do it. You just have to find the person who’s going to replace you."

Debbie Lovich is Managing Director and Senior Partner at Boston Consulting Group (BCG). She leads BCG’s thinking on making work work. Debbie describes Harvard research conducted at BCG on work/life balance. She shares insights as to why lasting solutions must be co-created, continuously improved, and include teams having open discussions about team norms. Debbie explains why her focus on joy (and productivity) is an economic one especially as Gen AI forces everyone to rethink work. Debbie portrays the Generative Leader and explains how their intent for improvement and team approach enables transformation projects to succeed.     KEY TAKEAWAYS   [02:28] Debbie loves business from an early age so she studies economics.   [02:56] Companies move too slowly! Debbie discovers quickly that consulting is the right fit for her!   [04:12] A random connection introduces Harvard professor Leslie Perlow about a research study on work/life balance.   [05:01] Debbie has no work/life balance but wonders what Leslie might come up with.   [06:30] Detailed data reveals consultants expect long hours but the lack of predictability is a huge issue.   [07:30] Leslie wants to conduct an experiment with one team testing a more predictable schedule.   [08:52] Looking for a team for the experiment, Debbie hears “Great idea, but why not your team?!”   [09:57] How the lack of predictability is experienced by BCG consultants.   [11:02] Debbie asks her important local client to support doing the HBS research with her team.   [12:10] The experiment is successful and the model is scaled to the rest of BCG.   [13:17] Debbie temporarily leaves BCG to commercialize the research results with Leslie.   [14:34] Scaling a model is very different than managing one controlled experiment.   [15:50] Data on client value delivery is key to convince others as the model is expanded.   [16:56] Everyone has to design the change—at the start and evolving improvements over time.   [18:40] Agreeing team norms is essential so different people and projects determine parameters.   [22:01] With new tools, ubiquitous work is possible with zero boundaries and much waste.   [23:35] When you constrain work, people have to prioritize and innovate.   [24:10] In today’s labor market, work/life balance is an important reason to rethink work.   [27:44] Debbie believes that work is fundamentally broken.   [28:38] In a VUCA world, employers are giving workers more to do with fewer resources.   [29:27] - The ‘unbroken state’ is when we are all in this together.   [30:32] Debbie focuses on joy for economic reasons.   [32:51] Trader Joe's employee-centric positive results.   [34:56] Why organizations should think of employees like customers—including emotional benefits.   [36:12] Gabby Novacek's work reveals everyone is motivated differently. Programs focusing only on few segments won't succeed.   [38:24] Who Generative Leaders are.   [39:18] Debbie explains the head, heart, and hands of generative leadership.   [40:54] The most important things employees want from leaders and where leaders spend their time.       RESOURCES   Debbie Lovich on LinkedIn BCG.com       QUOTES (edited)   “If you want to make change stick, there has to be something in it for all parties.“   “Everyone has to design the change…15 years later, thousands think that they invented it, because they did.”   “If you tell people they can’t work 24/7, you have to think about what’s the most important work to do. Are there different ways to get it done? And that leads to better work.”   “We need to solve the needs of the work and the needs of the team in how we rethink work.”   “When you constrain the work, you force people to prioritize. You force teams to talk about what’s going to get in the way of everyone getting their time off and making it work. So it forces innovation of new approaches.”   “How do we make work more productive and more enjoyable at the same time?”   “Gen AI is coming and is forcing everyone to rethink work.”   “My focus on joy is an economic one.”   “Employees are customers too. They choose to work with you. They choose to expend their energy at work every day as opposed to just punch the clock.”   “You need to think about not just the functional needs of pay and benefits and hours, but the emotional needs of feeling supported, enjoying your work, feeling respected.”

Denise Brouder, Founder and Head of Data and Insights at SWAY Workplace. As a flexible work skills expert, researcher, and consultant—with a Wall St background in financial oversight and controls—Denise discusses a risk-adjusted systems approach to implement flexibility and optimize performance. She explains why AI is a key factor driving us from fixed hybrid to flexible models as the only viable long-term solution. Denise explains the critical importance of empathy-based trust to effect flexibility at scale and fuel high-performing teams and that to work differently, we need to start by thinking differently.     KEY TAKEAWAYS   [02:39] From rural Ireland, Denise writes to Wall St. banks asking for an internship and gets one!   [03:55] Denise is systems-oriented, finding banks’ capital, economics, and operations fascinating.   [04:37] Denise compares Merrill Lynch and Goldman Sachs as organizations and employers.   [05:17] As a young mother, Denise leaves Wall Street to join a tech startup and get more flexibility.   [06:00] Denise finds she loves the process of starting with a problem and building something.   [06:48] Working in a large company becomes transactional while at a startup to see how your everyday effort contributes to progress.   [07:41] At a fast-paced startup, Denise learns to hustle, figuring things out as they build the business.   [08:22] Denise finds building and scaling with limited resources a very interesting challenge.   [09:02] Denise follows a colleague to LugTrack, launching with five people and a patent.   [10:19] Persistence, creativity, and grit are critical for success as a startup—which are emotional skills.   [11:06] Lithium-ion batteries catching fire on planes meant LugTrack’s business runway ran out.   [11:49] After a course on the Future of Work, Denise takes a big leap of faith and founds a company.   [12:30] Denise recognizes the work change ahead and wants to productize how to work flexibly.   [14:29] Denise wants to yell “AI is coming! AI is coming!” from the hilltop!   [14:45] Denise feels strongly about mastering flexible work at scale to propel everyone forward.   [16:10] Denise thinks that flexibility at scale levels the playing field for women. [17:10] The first iteration of SWAY is a technology play using apps to convene the conversation digitally around new ways of working.   [18:15] The advancement of women will happen by changing the system from the inside out, making flexibility a gender neutral issue.   [19:38] Denise discovers she is a systems thinker and we have a systems problem.   [20:32] The Science of Flexibility helps de-risk flexibility as an operational strategy for a large company.   [21:17] If flexibility is demonstrated, measured, and communicated like a risk-adjusted talent model, senior leaders can get people on the same page.   [22:49] In SWAY’s work, EQ and empathy demonstrate the intelligence that is in flexibility that we’re going to need in an AI-influenced world.   [23:42] High-performing flexible teams are fueled by empathy-based trust.   [25:32] Emotions are fundamental to our human design, but we only just starting to understand them.   [27:47] Traditional working norms evolved around visual-based trust.   [28:26] In hybrid models, trust levels feel low and are questioned—these are growing pains.   [29:16] Flexibility at scale requires empathy-based trust.   [32:03] The social contract used to provide stability. Now, what is the system? Do we trust it?   [32:49] Reimagining the social contract may be an even bigger shift to prepare for in the future of work.   [33:40] Denise is concerned that some employees are not fighting RTO mandates anymore.   [36:05] In-office mandates are not long-term models, but the current situation is still malleable.   [36:45] In face of AI disruption, Denise’s goal is to articulate that flexibility is not a fad or a perk but an intelligent model for the modern era   [38:33] Mindset is first—to facilitate adaptability and resiliency.   [40:08] If we want to work differently, we have to think differently.   [41:20] Cultural differences about work and historical religious underpinnings.   [43:00] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: First, the Future of Work is a journey, not a destination. Take the pressure off “completing” the transition as it is an evolution. Second, we learn and communicate new ways of working through documentation rather than observation. Third, lead by outcomes and create social space to learn team members’ work styles.   RESOURCES   Denise Brouder on LinkedIn @SWAYworkplace on X @SWAYworkplace on Instagram swayworkplace.com     QUOTES (edited)   “Our original social mission was to level the playing field for women at work, using flexibility at scale.”   “The Science of Flexibility is my way of communicating with senior leaders who are accountable for performance within a flexible model. We have to demonstrate how it works, why it’s better than before, how we measure the impact, and how we deploy it.”   “It’s a risk-adjusted talent model. We explain it in a condensed, easy-to-consume setting under the umbrella term “the Science of Flexibility” specifically for senior leaders.”   “In an AI-influenced world, where a lot of our work is going to be transformed, we are left with the work of being human to one another.”   “We evolved our working norms around visual-based trust. When we were all shifted home for fully remote work, it was a very uncomfortable period. A lot of leaders found themselves on Teams wondering if we trust each other.”   “An in-office model of work is not suitable for where we need to grow economically, regardless of where your industry is. It just isn’t.”   “If we want to work differently, we have to think differently, and if we want to think differently, we start with resiliency.”   “Gen X has always associated a hard day’s work with a sense of decency, patriotism, and honor, and when they look at the younger ones looking to reach those outcomes differently, they have a hard time associating value with that style of work.”  

Phil Kirschner, Senior Expert and Associate Partner, Real Estate & People and Organizational Performance at McKinsey where he advises executive teams on the future of work, employee experience, organizational health, and workplace strategies. Phil discusses systemic changes, expected rebounds in cities’ commercial real estate, and organizational health. He shares insights about workplace utilization, the critical emphasis on ‘how’ we work and change management to evolve behaviors, and the new retail-oriented perception of work. KEY TAKEAWAYS   [02:25] Phil calls himself an accidental work strategist, starting out in banking.   [03:37] Phil starts in the efficiency management group looking to save money in real estate.   [04:40] How workplace innovation by Google and Microsoft caught public attention.   [05:23] Competition for talent from other industries drives investment to improve work ‘place’.   [06:30] Balancing not having your own desk with other amenities to improve the experience.   [08:06] Trying to reduce office-based friction with shared environments.   [09:00] Most managers absorbed a bit more pain to give team members a better experience.   [10:00] The loss factor and importance of change management to establish new behaviors.   [11:32] Where managers set the example carefully, the highest satisfaction is reported.   [14:02] These are not real estate projects, but culture projects—requiring a cultural shift.   [16:21] Ten years ago, productivity at the bank was measured through self-attestation and surveys.   [17:00] Team dynamics, people’s ability to focus, and overall engagement all increased significantly.   [19:57] McKinsey’s Organizational Health Framework and Index helps analyze work practices and how these tie to performance.   [21:04] Studying fully remote companies to isolate specific variables, Phil finds them to be top decile performers.   [23:20] Organizational practice surveys show if you give someone flexibility, they are much more likely to report positive outcomes for the organization.   [25:25] You have to teach people how to use new environments and tools differently.   [27:15] The four ways companies are showing up in the world nowadays.   [28:35] Building facilities for very specific purposes rather than trying to solve all needs all the time.   [30:10] Clearly defining the purposes of a workspace unlocks better outcomes.   [32:37] Progressive companies with flexible hybrid policies are working hard to figure out how to adapt fully to all the new ways of working.   [36:45] Most companies need to be focusing on ways of working and responsive spaces.   [40:27] Technology is undoubtedly driving the change in how we work, Phil touches on how AI may change this further.   [44:22] Phil explains the increasing retail nature of our work choices and some of the implications of this when it comes to competition.   [46:56] The HR/IT/Real Estate stool now needs a seat to bridge the gap in employee and customer experience.   [51:10] RTO is not sustainable; Phil explains why and what RTO focused companies can expect.   [55:47] Phil breaks down what commercial real estate issues and positive trends to watch for in the coming years.   [59:05] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Stop thinking about inputs, the days in the office, or “what’s the right hybrid?” Focus on outputs and the impact on organizational health. Study work practices and outcomes across your organization based on how people work and collaborate to figure out the secret sauce, then pilot, test, learn, and scale those behaviors, and keep evolving.     RESOURCES   Phil Kirschner on LinkedIn McKinsey.com     QUOTES (edited)   "Those work environments with the bean bags, the beautiful amenities, and the campus also have a desk for each employee. We didn’t have the means for that, so to give you a better experience, you had to make a trade with us: give up your assigned seat."   "We found that where you had the managers who were willing to be sitting in the open having calls or conversations in the open, those zones by far were the ones where people would report the highest satisfaction."   "These are not real estate projects, they are change projects. They are culture projects that happen to manifest in space."   "When you’ve created a culture where lots of work can happen in the open, it eases demand for the formal spaces."   "Fully remote companies that have never had an office, who were born remote and not forcibly remote are top quartile, if not top decile performers against McKinsey’s 20-year experience of measuring Organizational Health."   "If you give someone a choice in where they work, either in the office or home or when they’re working their hours, we find that they’re about one and a half times as likely to report positive outcomes for the organization."   "I am fully a believer that the ways of working are far more powerful as a tool for organizational performance and experience than where we happen to be working. And I wish I knew that 10 years ago."   "For a city like New York, we have to make it compelling and affordable for people to want to live here, even if they’re not working for someone who is here."   "I will go back for experiences that I enjoy, back to the same restaurant, same bar, same shows. We like that our customers are repeat customers. We can be repeat workers, and that’s going to be a huge unlock in the coming years."   "Changing the way we work is hard, no matter the best tools in the world. It's still hand-to-hand combat group by group, culture by culture, process by process. It’s hard, so instead of doing the hard thing, we do the easy thing and there is a call to all go back to the office."  

Michelle Coulson is Founder and Chief Remote Rebel at Remote Rebellion whose mission is to enable people to live the life that they choose. Michelle shares her journey working around the world finding opportunities in response to economic, pandemic, and workplace changes. She explains how the COVID19 crisis gave everyone time to reflect about their life, work, and happiness. Michelle discusses reactions to being told to go back to the office--and finds meaning in launching her own venture. She questions what people settle with but could ask for and explains how to explore and navigate new remote working possibilities.     KEY TAKEAWAYS   [03:02] Michelle early love of travel guides her studies.   [04:06] 2009 is a bad year to graduate, so Michelle makes her way to Thailand via Australia.   [05:50] Michelle finds comfort and a better version of herself in Southeast Asia.   [07:15] Working as a tour guide takes its toll on Michelle’s health and she turns to digital marketing.   [08:27] Planning to cycle the globe motivates Michelle to find more lucrative opportunities, she stumbles into recruitment, and a relationship.   [11:27] Catalyzed by a breakup and the pandemic, Michelle leaves London for Bali.   [12:22] A forced return to the office prompts Michelle to quit and explore what career will let her work from anywhere.   [14:14] Michelle explains the birth of Remote Rebellion.   [17:19] Recognizing “there is more to life than work,” Michelle explores what makes her happy and builds a remote community.   [20:43] After reflecting during the pandemic, many people still feel guilty to ask for more for their lives.   [21:49] Michelle dives into Remote Rebellion’s mission vision and purpose.   [23:56] Remote Rebellion’s clients are diverse and yet all enjoy choosing where they work.   [26:09] Jack is one client who went from fitting kitchens to SEO work!   [28:53] Building confidence is a significant part of the journey.   [30:45] What Michelle misses and hopes for the future of Remote Rebellion.   [32:46] Remote work is here to stay while growth has slowed, for now.   [34:15] Michelle is wary of some companies’ reasons and parameters for their hybrid model.   [36:21] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: If you want a remote job, first check why you want it. If you aren’t happy with your life, what would enrich your life and how can you achieve that? Remote working may not be the solution, but if you think it is, also investigate the downsides. Then experiment to see if you like it.     RESOURCES   Michelle Coulson on LinkedIn @RemoteRebellion on X Remote Rebellion on Instagram remoterebellion.com The 4 C'S Formula: Commitment Courage Capability and Confidence, by Dan Sullivan     QUOTES (edited)   “I changed and I became quite materialistic, which I hadn’t been before. I bought a designer handbag, and I don't even like this stuff. What am I doing?”   “And when the call back to the office came, I was literally holding onto the post… I don’t want to do this. I said, if you won’t let me work remotely from here like I have been for the past year and a half, then I quit.”   “I felt like it was a rebellion because I was angry that we were being forced back into the office when we didn’t need to be. We were working great. A lot of people work better when they’re able to have the freedom to choose where they work from.”   “I’m not anti-hybrid. I'm anti being told and being forced when you go into the office. And a lot of hybrid companies do do that. I just think there’s a lack of trust.”   “Do you not get lonely if you work remotely? If your only source of social interaction is in the office or the people you work with, maybe you need to be questioning that.”

Nick Bloom, Professor of Economics at Stanford University and co-Founder of wfhresearch.com and wfhmap.com, has studied remote work for over two decades. Nick discusses fundamental data issues, sources, and collection as well as understanding macro and firm level productivity. He talks about the demise of RTO (Return To Office) efforts and the stabilization of hybrid models. Nick describes the changing attitudes and demographics of people working from home. He also shares insights about HR’s rising strategic importance as talent management increases in complexity.   KEY TAKEAWAYS   [03:02] Born and educated in the UK, Nick starts off consulting and working at HM Treasury.   [03:35] On a speaking engagement in California, Nick is offered a job and returns to live long-term.   [04:42] Nick was interested in management practices early on and, as a child, experienced both parents working from home.   [05:22] One of Nick’s students is a travel agent. Their randomized WFH trial generates much interest.   [04:42] Focused on daily commuting, early WFH data only tracked fully remote or fully in the office.   [06:50] Nick begins bridging the gap and finding multiple sources as government data collection lags.   [07:35] Nick finds ways to collect reliable and more frequent data from many businesses.   [09:41] Productivity is easy enough to measure at the macro level, critical for setting interest rates.   [10:31] At the firm level, productivity is very hard to measure for many disciplines and jobs.   [11:34] Initially surprised at the pandemic’s duration and effect on WFH, Nick then visualizes the tombstone for Return To Office.   [12:35] Nick explains the inherent bias in Kastle’a data for trending upwards.   [14:01] The perception of working from home is much more positive than a decade ago.   [15:28] People working remotely are now more likely to be higher paid professionals.   [16:25] The leisure boom resulting from reduced commuting—why not play golf then?!   [17:57] With hybrid stabilizing, HR is more important to manage more complex talent dynamics.   [20:55] In-person outperforms virtual teaching for now, but Nick expects this to evolve.   [22:11] How important coordination is to improve in-office experiences and activities.   [23:34] MOOC (Massive Open Online Courses) learning is likely to improve dramatically with technology advances (e.g. new headsets).   [25:58] Why CEOs tend to have the most negative opinions about remote working.   [26:49] At all levels, most people find no change to corporate culture caused by working from home.   [27:32] A reasonable cadence of in-person connection to build and maintain culture.   [28:49] Nick was amazed hybrid stabilized so quickly.   [29:33] Top human resources pay has risen steeply recently to support new work- and talent-related developments.   [31:10] How work arrangements are best tailored for the target audience, product/service, and talent.   [32:16] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Your priority should be getting your hybrid model to work. If compliance is low for four days a week in the office, try one or two days and make those a success so people feel it’s valuable time spent in the office (not on Zoom).     RESOURCES   Nick Bloom on LinkedIn wfhresearch.com wfhmap.com     QUOTES   “Hybrid’s going to get better in the sense of more coordination, better use of space.”   “At the end of 2022, there's a little tombstone somewhere that says “Return To Office, Rest In Peace.” And since then, work from home levels have been stable.”   “I could easily see a norm being two or three days a week in the office and two, three days. The thing for me is that coordination really matters.”   “Mid-managers tend to actually be relatively positive working from home because they have houses and kids.”   “Meeting up once a month for a day or once a week for one or two days, you can really get a big boost to culture building and there are diminishing returns which is why hybrid is so popular. You just don’t need to be in all five days.”   “There's been a leisure boost. The typical professional is working from home two and a half days a week. You typically save 70 minutes a day when you work from home. If you add it up, you're looking at two, maybe three hours. And you can easily sneak in a game of golf.”   “I think now we have stabilized in hybrid. I know you occasionally read scary headlines from Elon Musk or Jamie Diamond, but in the data I'm looking at, you just don't see that.”