Transforming Work with Sophie Wade

Phil Kirschner, Senior Expert and Associate Partner, Real Estate & People and Organizational Performance at McKinsey where he advises executive teams on the future of work, employee experience, organizational health, and workplace strategies. Phil discusses systemic changes, expected rebounds in cities’ commercial real estate, and organizational health. He shares insights about workplace utilization, the critical emphasis on ‘how’ we work and change management to evolve behaviors, and the new retail-oriented perception of work. KEY TAKEAWAYS   [02:25] Phil calls himself an accidental work strategist, starting out in banking.   [03:37] Phil starts in the efficiency management group looking to save money in real estate.   [04:40] How workplace innovation by Google and Microsoft caught public attention.   [05:23] Competition for talent from other industries drives investment to improve work ‘place’.   [06:30] Balancing not having your own desk with other amenities to improve the experience.   [08:06] Trying to reduce office-based friction with shared environments.   [09:00] Most managers absorbed a bit more pain to give team members a better experience.   [10:00] The loss factor and importance of change management to establish new behaviors.   [11:32] Where managers set the example carefully, the highest satisfaction is reported.   [14:02] These are not real estate projects, but culture projects—requiring a cultural shift.   [16:21] Ten years ago, productivity at the bank was measured through self-attestation and surveys.   [17:00] Team dynamics, people’s ability to focus, and overall engagement all increased significantly.   [19:57] McKinsey’s Organizational Health Framework and Index helps analyze work practices and how these tie to performance.   [21:04] Studying fully remote companies to isolate specific variables, Phil finds them to be top decile performers.   [23:20] Organizational practice surveys show if you give someone flexibility, they are much more likely to report positive outcomes for the organization.   [25:25] You have to teach people how to use new environments and tools differently.   [27:15] The four ways companies are showing up in the world nowadays.   [28:35] Building facilities for very specific purposes rather than trying to solve all needs all the time.   [30:10] Clearly defining the purposes of a workspace unlocks better outcomes.   [32:37] Progressive companies with flexible hybrid policies are working hard to figure out how to adapt fully to all the new ways of working.   [36:45] Most companies need to be focusing on ways of working and responsive spaces.   [40:27] Technology is undoubtedly driving the change in how we work, Phil touches on how AI may change this further.   [44:22] Phil explains the increasing retail nature of our work choices and some of the implications of this when it comes to competition.   [46:56] The HR/IT/Real Estate stool now needs a seat to bridge the gap in employee and customer experience.   [51:10] RTO is not sustainable; Phil explains why and what RTO focused companies can expect.   [55:47] Phil breaks down what commercial real estate issues and positive trends to watch for in the coming years.   [59:05] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Stop thinking about inputs, the days in the office, or “what’s the right hybrid?” Focus on outputs and the impact on organizational health. Study work practices and outcomes across your organization based on how people work and collaborate to figure out the secret sauce, then pilot, test, learn, and scale those behaviors, and keep evolving.     RESOURCES   Phil Kirschner on LinkedIn McKinsey.com     QUOTES (edited)   "Those work environments with the bean bags, the beautiful amenities, and the campus also have a desk for each employee. We didn’t have the means for that, so to give you a better experience, you had to make a trade with us: give up your assigned seat."   "We found that where you had the managers who were willing to be sitting in the open having calls or conversations in the open, those zones by far were the ones where people would report the highest satisfaction."   "These are not real estate projects, they are change projects. They are culture projects that happen to manifest in space."   "When you’ve created a culture where lots of work can happen in the open, it eases demand for the formal spaces."   "Fully remote companies that have never had an office, who were born remote and not forcibly remote are top quartile, if not top decile performers against McKinsey’s 20-year experience of measuring Organizational Health."   "If you give someone a choice in where they work, either in the office or home or when they’re working their hours, we find that they’re about one and a half times as likely to report positive outcomes for the organization."   "I am fully a believer that the ways of working are far more powerful as a tool for organizational performance and experience than where we happen to be working. And I wish I knew that 10 years ago."   "For a city like New York, we have to make it compelling and affordable for people to want to live here, even if they’re not working for someone who is here."   "I will go back for experiences that I enjoy, back to the same restaurant, same bar, same shows. We like that our customers are repeat customers. We can be repeat workers, and that’s going to be a huge unlock in the coming years."   "Changing the way we work is hard, no matter the best tools in the world. It's still hand-to-hand combat group by group, culture by culture, process by process. It’s hard, so instead of doing the hard thing, we do the easy thing and there is a call to all go back to the office."  

Michelle Coulson is Founder and Chief Remote Rebel at Remote Rebellion whose mission is to enable people to live the life that they choose. Michelle shares her journey working around the world finding opportunities in response to economic, pandemic, and workplace changes. She explains how the COVID19 crisis gave everyone time to reflect about their life, work, and happiness. Michelle discusses reactions to being told to go back to the office--and finds meaning in launching her own venture. She questions what people settle with but could ask for and explains how to explore and navigate new remote working possibilities.     KEY TAKEAWAYS   [03:02] Michelle early love of travel guides her studies.   [04:06] 2009 is a bad year to graduate, so Michelle makes her way to Thailand via Australia.   [05:50] Michelle finds comfort and a better version of herself in Southeast Asia.   [07:15] Working as a tour guide takes its toll on Michelle’s health and she turns to digital marketing.   [08:27] Planning to cycle the globe motivates Michelle to find more lucrative opportunities, she stumbles into recruitment, and a relationship.   [11:27] Catalyzed by a breakup and the pandemic, Michelle leaves London for Bali.   [12:22] A forced return to the office prompts Michelle to quit and explore what career will let her work from anywhere.   [14:14] Michelle explains the birth of Remote Rebellion.   [17:19] Recognizing “there is more to life than work,” Michelle explores what makes her happy and builds a remote community.   [20:43] After reflecting during the pandemic, many people still feel guilty to ask for more for their lives.   [21:49] Michelle dives into Remote Rebellion’s mission vision and purpose.   [23:56] Remote Rebellion’s clients are diverse and yet all enjoy choosing where they work.   [26:09] Jack is one client who went from fitting kitchens to SEO work!   [28:53] Building confidence is a significant part of the journey.   [30:45] What Michelle misses and hopes for the future of Remote Rebellion.   [32:46] Remote work is here to stay while growth has slowed, for now.   [34:15] Michelle is wary of some companies’ reasons and parameters for their hybrid model.   [36:21] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: If you want a remote job, first check why you want it. If you aren’t happy with your life, what would enrich your life and how can you achieve that? Remote working may not be the solution, but if you think it is, also investigate the downsides. Then experiment to see if you like it.     RESOURCES   Michelle Coulson on LinkedIn @RemoteRebellion on X Remote Rebellion on Instagram remoterebellion.com The 4 C'S Formula: Commitment Courage Capability and Confidence, by Dan Sullivan     QUOTES (edited)   “I changed and I became quite materialistic, which I hadn’t been before. I bought a designer handbag, and I don't even like this stuff. What am I doing?”   “And when the call back to the office came, I was literally holding onto the post… I don’t want to do this. I said, if you won’t let me work remotely from here like I have been for the past year and a half, then I quit.”   “I felt like it was a rebellion because I was angry that we were being forced back into the office when we didn’t need to be. We were working great. A lot of people work better when they’re able to have the freedom to choose where they work from.”   “I’m not anti-hybrid. I'm anti being told and being forced when you go into the office. And a lot of hybrid companies do do that. I just think there’s a lack of trust.”   “Do you not get lonely if you work remotely? If your only source of social interaction is in the office or the people you work with, maybe you need to be questioning that.”

Nick Bloom, Professor of Economics at Stanford University and co-Founder of wfhresearch.com and wfhmap.com, has studied remote work for over two decades. Nick discusses fundamental data issues, sources, and collection as well as understanding macro and firm level productivity. He talks about the demise of RTO (Return To Office) efforts and the stabilization of hybrid models. Nick describes the changing attitudes and demographics of people working from home. He also shares insights about HR’s rising strategic importance as talent management increases in complexity.   KEY TAKEAWAYS   [03:02] Born and educated in the UK, Nick starts off consulting and working at HM Treasury.   [03:35] On a speaking engagement in California, Nick is offered a job and returns to live long-term.   [04:42] Nick was interested in management practices early on and, as a child, experienced both parents working from home.   [05:22] One of Nick’s students is a travel agent. Their randomized WFH trial generates much interest.   [04:42] Focused on daily commuting, early WFH data only tracked fully remote or fully in the office.   [06:50] Nick begins bridging the gap and finding multiple sources as government data collection lags.   [07:35] Nick finds ways to collect reliable and more frequent data from many businesses.   [09:41] Productivity is easy enough to measure at the macro level, critical for setting interest rates.   [10:31] At the firm level, productivity is very hard to measure for many disciplines and jobs.   [11:34] Initially surprised at the pandemic’s duration and effect on WFH, Nick then visualizes the tombstone for Return To Office.   [12:35] Nick explains the inherent bias in Kastle’a data for trending upwards.   [14:01] The perception of working from home is much more positive than a decade ago.   [15:28] People working remotely are now more likely to be higher paid professionals.   [16:25] The leisure boom resulting from reduced commuting—why not play golf then?!   [17:57] With hybrid stabilizing, HR is more important to manage more complex talent dynamics.   [20:55] In-person outperforms virtual teaching for now, but Nick expects this to evolve.   [22:11] How important coordination is to improve in-office experiences and activities.   [23:34] MOOC (Massive Open Online Courses) learning is likely to improve dramatically with technology advances (e.g. new headsets).   [25:58] Why CEOs tend to have the most negative opinions about remote working.   [26:49] At all levels, most people find no change to corporate culture caused by working from home.   [27:32] A reasonable cadence of in-person connection to build and maintain culture.   [28:49] Nick was amazed hybrid stabilized so quickly.   [29:33] Top human resources pay has risen steeply recently to support new work- and talent-related developments.   [31:10] How work arrangements are best tailored for the target audience, product/service, and talent.   [32:16] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Your priority should be getting your hybrid model to work. If compliance is low for four days a week in the office, try one or two days and make those a success so people feel it’s valuable time spent in the office (not on Zoom).     RESOURCES   Nick Bloom on LinkedIn wfhresearch.com wfhmap.com     QUOTES   “Hybrid’s going to get better in the sense of more coordination, better use of space.”   “At the end of 2022, there's a little tombstone somewhere that says “Return To Office, Rest In Peace.” And since then, work from home levels have been stable.”   “I could easily see a norm being two or three days a week in the office and two, three days. The thing for me is that coordination really matters.”   “Mid-managers tend to actually be relatively positive working from home because they have houses and kids.”   “Meeting up once a month for a day or once a week for one or two days, you can really get a big boost to culture building and there are diminishing returns which is why hybrid is so popular. You just don’t need to be in all five days.”   “There's been a leisure boost. The typical professional is working from home two and a half days a week. You typically save 70 minutes a day when you work from home. If you add it up, you're looking at two, maybe three hours. And you can easily sneak in a game of golf.”   “I think now we have stabilized in hybrid. I know you occasionally read scary headlines from Elon Musk or Jamie Diamond, but in the data I'm looking at, you just don't see that.”

Jeff Frick is the host of ‘Work 20XX’ and ‘Turn the Lens’ podcasts, a media entrepreneur—founder and principal of Menlo Creek Media, and a seasoned operator from the tech sector. Jeff shares his journey experiencing Silicon Valley’s technology evolution, starting with early hardware and emerging software ventures exploring internet commerce. Pivoting with the pandemic, Jeff uses technology to enable collaboration and create and elevate community. He shares his predictions for tech-driven changes as we learn, appreciate, and integrate new applications that facilitate and (re)shape our working lives.     KEY TAKEAWAYS   [02:29] Studying economics, Jeff is inspired by the new perspectives of his psychology professor/pilot.   [03:46] Jeff’s lab rat encounter and observations as he learns the addictive nature of random payouts.   [05:43] Delving into cockpit design to explore the hierarchy of needs for human/machine interactions.   [07:37] Jeff double majors in economics and psychology to better understand humans’ emotional drivers.   [08:15] Working in sales elevates the importance of emotion and empathy and what makes people tick.   [10:00] Consumer electronics gets disrupted, so Jeff goes to business school, then starts a tech career.   [10:54] The clunky beginnings of Intel’s early chip, with its accompanying ecosystem and jargon.   [12:32] Jeff has the most retail experience as Intel/SAP try to launch one of the first B2C online malls.   [13:33] Offline supply chain basic logistics hamper early B2B internet commerce.   [14:40] Jeff rides the internet bubble as auction and software ventures get funded and bought or crater.   [16:24] Early learnings from online commerce backend issues and front end behaviors.   [18:12] His mother’s questions prompt Jeff to invest in himself and take an entrepreneurial route.   [19:00] The business of bug fixing and transitioning!   [20:11] Atlassian had a different (Australian!) attitude—share, be open, and build schools in Africa.   [22:40] The bugs drive Jeff into an out-of-body experience, out of Jira, and right into theCUBE.   [23:44] theCUBE’s format enabled people to tell their story in a professional setting.   [25:32] Jeff hosts over 2000 live interviews with many memorable tech sector CEOs.   [27:42] Technology’s rapid and often surprising evolution is a key reason Jeff loves the field.   [29:29] AI’s outputs are pretty generic now to Jeff, but he anticipates much change in a short period.   [31:50] The pandemic generates new media consumption habits—asynchronous and collaborative.   [33:40] Jeff experiences collaborations across overlapping communities and building new audiences.   [36:15] The Super 73 makers have nurtured an engaged and powerful community driving the brand.   [38:47] Developing a community to become a movement.   [40:10] Experiments with a new medium and audience are a driver for Jeff to launch his podcast.   [42:47] Jeff podcast is evolving with the world of work as new threads and issues emerge.   [44:16] The future of work in 2024 with a real estate reckoning and tight labor supply.   [46:37] Distributed teams have been around forever and work isn’t at the office it’s on your phone!   [48:47] There is no steady state to expect, Jeff emphasizes how fast things are moving today.   [51:25] Jeff shares his excitement about drones heralding how much more 2024 can bring.     RESOURCES   Jeff Frick on LinkedIn Work20xx.com turnthelenspodcast.com     QUOTES (edited)   “Most people never get the opportunity to tell their story in a professional setting. And most people have an interesting story to tell if you’re willing to dig a little.”   “Authenticity is the key and often that works well as a leader.”   “What’s interesting about technology is that it seems like we’re always in the first inning. We never get to the third inning! Suddenly there’s something new that’s big, and it just keeps accelerating. It just keeps going faster.”   “With AI, the other piece of the puzzle that’s not talked about enough is that it’s a new way for you or me to interface with a supercomputer on demand without writing code and that is really pretty amazing.”   “We misjudge time. Say it takes something 10 years, it isn’t that long from now.”  

Cecelia Girr is the Strategy Director at TBWA\Worldwide and Director of Cultural Strategy at TBWABackslash. Cecelia’s career has been focused on researching, gathering, and distilling cultural intelligence to understand cultural changes, prevailing sentiments, core issues, and emerging trends. She shares insights from Backslash’s new Future of Employee Engagement report including employees’ desires and concerns, why flexibility and upskilling matter, and the importance of investing in employees’ experiences. Cecelia advocates for healthy employer/employee relationships with life stage-related and tailored benefits that help employees live better lives.     KEY TAKEAWAYS   [02:52] A love of stories prompts Cecelia to study political science, having considered documentary filmmaking!   [04:12] Political science studies power that shapes the world, paying attention to nuance and ambiguity.   [05:43] Explaining cultural intelligence and solutions journalism—which focuses on learning from people trying to solve problems.   [06:51] Gathering intelligence and looking at the unintended consequences of actions and events.   [08:05] Before 2020, workplace culture was emphasized, but more as a ‘cult of work’ mentality.   [08:55] An earlier work revolution to make work sexy and coworkers pseudo family members.   [09:50] The pandemic caused us to recognize ‘toxic’ aspects and develop more healthy employer/employee relationships.   [12:05] Culture isn’t focused on ‘place’, but more on flexibility now and different aspects that are driving our relationship with work.   [13:38] The four big tensions comprising the employee experience today.   [15:20] Cecelia shares her key work-related issues—flexibility is top, then customizing benefits.   [16:37] Cecilia’s friends are focused on flexibility and always on upskilling, since college isn’t enough.   [17:28] How upskilling needs are affecting people of Cecelia’s parents’ age.   [18:44] Heat protection innovation is solving issues for outdoor workers facing hotter temperatures.   [22:00] As the speed of change increases, employees are needing to become educators.   [22:59] How employers are changing their attitude to investing in employees.   [24:25] Upskilling and internal marketplaces are not just for retention, they will be future recruitment tactics too.   [26:20] Companies are trying a variety of flexible options—not clear what the ‘right’ solution is—and employees will find their fit.   [28:31] Some companies are offering employees the chance to experience different countries.   [30:14] Artificial intelligence presents many positive opportunities as well as some concerning elements.   [31:57] Cecelia is excited about new employee benefits that can help people live better lives.   [33:35] Benefits that boost wellbeing—such as those supporting employees at family planning, life, and caregiving milestones.   [35:13] Compensation structures can now be customized to suit employees’ current priorities.   [36:33] Earned wage access—being paid at the end of the shift—enables workers to achieve more financial security.   [37:06] New emphasis on trying to find a wellness-oriented relationship with work.   [38:23] The possibilities of work helping you live a better life—from scheduling to adaptive pay and life-stage customized benefits.   [39:10] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: First, encourage transparency, listen to employees’ needs, and make long-lasting efforts to respond. Second, embrace flexibility, beginning by understanding employees’ lives and them as human beings. Third, invest in the employee experience, financially.     RESOURCES   Cecelia Girr on LinkedIn Download The Future of Employee Experience Report at Backslash.com Backslash on Instagram @tbwabackslash     QUOTES (edited)   “Culture in the workplace was not emphasized with an eye towards the health of employees or with the individual at heart.”   “Now when we hear the word culture being used by company leaders, I feel it’s more about showing new intention…and making sure there’s a healthy relationship there between employer and employees.” “Flexibility and upskilling are front of mind for people. The rate of change in what skills are demanded and desired is so quick. University doesn't exactly set you up for the workplace of today like it used to.”   “An evolution that's happening Is employers putting investment into becoming educators and ‘always on upskilling’ for their employees.”   “’Always on upskilling’ is not just about retention. It will be the recruitment tactic of the future.”   “I think people will look to the companies that define the kind of workplace environment that they want.” “It's about becoming more customized and tailored to the specific life and life stage of the employee—where you're at in your career, where you're at in your finances, what you actually need in terms of support—all of these things are just going to make work help you live a better life.”

Sophie Wade is a work futurist and strategist, workforce innovation specialist, keynote speaker, and host of this show. She is an author and authority on the Future of Work, and a course instructor with over 0.5 million LinkedIn Learning learners on Gen Z, empathy, and Future of Work skills. Sophie shares three key pathways for 2024 and decisions to make to move forward successfully. She describes the human-centric system of modern work, highlights the guiding work/LIFE principles, and recommends learning the fundamental practices.       TAKEAWAYS   [01:29] Sophie predicts what will significantly impact your company’s outcomes this year.   [02:19] You have noticed some of the new era’s defining characteristics—such as how customers are reacting and how tasks are changing.   [03:59] This year, figure out what works for your company, not wait to see what others do.   [04:41] High-performing companies that have embraced modern work are demonstrating the principles and fundamental practices.   [06:09] During turbulent conditions, emphasize cohesive principles of modern work internally—Learning, Intention, Flexibility, and Empathy.   [07:53] The meaning of work/L.I.F.E equilibrium.   [08:17] Is your company equipped for the new digital rules of engagement?   [09:10] Sophie predicts three roads ahead in 2024 and explains the choices and challenges.   [11:49] Using workplace policies to explain CEOs’ (lack of) commitment to modern work.   [13:39] The difference between conceding to a policy compared with committing to it.   [15:49] What strategic framework applies to modern work?   [16:28] Starting with target customers and their needs to ensure everyone understands them and is aligned.   [18:59] Discovering and assessing your Customer Journey and how to make meaningful improvements.   [20:12] The importance of the complementary Employee Journey.   [21:17] Evaluating and upgrading all stages of the Employee Journey.   [22:15] The long-term benefits of shared values and deeper connections throughout your business ecosystem.   [24:27] How does a human-centric system and an emphasis on talent change outcomes for your business?   [25:24] The fundamental practices of modern work.   [26:55] Survey data from workers providing important intelligence for decision-making and progress.   [28:13] Weighting historical and recent data in the current environment.   [29:19] Balancing old and new inputs, making measured decisions, using data, logic and reasoning.   [30:40] Which path will you to commit for 2024 keeping work/LIFE principles top of mind?       RESOURCES   Sophie Wade on LinkedIn   Sophie’s company website Flexcel Network   Sophie’s book “Empathy Works: The Key to Competitive Advantage in the New Era of Work”   Sophie’s book “Embracing Progress: Next Steps for the Future of Work”       QUOTES   “The essence of modern work can be captured in four core principles that are relevant for any ecosystem, organization, team and individual. These are: Learning, Intention, Flexibility, and Empathy.”   “The Employee Journey is the “yin” to the Customer Journey’s “yang””. “The human-centric approach is applicable all along your supply chain as extensive ripple effects potentially impact everyone’s revenues and future growth possibilities.” “Tech is a given. Talent is a gift.”   “Right now, recent data is often most relevant and reliable for projecting out the possible pathways.”   “Our habit as humans, our instinct, is to invent and innovate, to continue our evolutionary path forward, to learn from disruptions and gain from turbulent disconnection to make jumps and leaps forward—which aren’t necessarily comfortable at first. “

Josh Bottomley is CEO of Dunnhumby (UK), a global leader in customer data science. Josh has led digital transformation initiatives at media and finance businesses. After overseeing customer data-focused traditional print businesses, Josh gained invaluable strategic experience early in the digitalization of organizations’ income streams and operations. Josh shares his insights about how he aligned multiple internal groups as new tech-enabled opportunities cut across business units. He explains the importance of working frameworks and freedom for employees and how to view any roadblocks.     KEY TAKEAWAYS   [02:46] From childhood, Josh was interested in what will eventually be called systems thinking.   [03:52] Joining the Financial Times during the internet’s early days, Josh’s job takes an unexpected turn.   [04:47] How the internet changes the way a newspaper needs to operate.   [05:51] Josh tries to recruit for jobs and titles that don’t exist yet.   [06:46] The importance of details in marketing.   [09:43] Digital transformation isn’t easy—how Josh succeeds by talking to customers.   [12:54] Using YouTube as a Trojan Horse to move parts of advertising budgets from TV to the Internet.   [15:45] How Josh finds an innovative way to create alignment in teams and mindsets.   [17:38] Digital integration is done cautiously across a company, working closely with customers.   [19:59] The perfect place to be is one step ahead of your customer, not three.   [21:58] What Josh took from Google to HSBC and every organization after.   [24:47] Why we now think more about systems and ecosystems to understand our world and business.   [27:02] What Dunnhumby has been doing for over 30 years.   [29:20] How “nudges” help people get what they want.   [31:40] How to strike the right balance relating to employees’ need for freedom and structure.   [35:05] Clarity about expectations and sustaining individual motivation are key to empower employees.   [37:54] Having a sense of purpose and nurturing it in others helps internal mobility, Josh explains.   [39:40] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Pick a theme, a sense of purpose. Leadership is a journey. You may or may not get to your destination. Rather than getting frustrated, be curious about the silly stuff that gets in the way — see them as roadblocks to overcome as you progress. Life is an obstacle course, not a sprint.   [42:21] Gen AI may be leveling blue and white-collar work--the impact has yet to be estimated.     RESOURCES   Josh Bottomley on LinkedIn dunnhumby.com     QUOTES (edited)   “We would spend $200 million a year on direct marketing and get a response rate of 2%. If we could get the rate to 3%, we would be getting 50% more customers for our money because one person in a hundred is making a different decision. So the lesson was, I might operate in this business at a level of detail such that one person in a hundred makes a different decision.”   “The perfect place in the business is one step ahead of your customers, not three.”   “Get curious about what’s getting in the way. And once you know what’s getting in the way, you can usually find a way to fix it.”   “Shoppers are not totally rational. That’s why I love businesses where the data and the tech result in some form of human decision.”   “I'm so impressed by younger generations because I think life is much harder. The default career options aren’t there. I think it’s much harder coming into the workforce now than it was when I was at that stage.”

Rob Sadow is the CEO and Co-Founder of Scoop and Creator of the Flex Index. He is a LinkedIn Top Voice on Flexible Work and a Forbes Future of Work 50. Rob shares how his own commuting experiences generated the initial focus on flexible working which morphed during the pandemic as employee behaviors evolved. Rob explains the genesis of the Flex Report, which tracks employers’ workplace policies. He brings insights about employers’ and employees’ changing sentiments during 2023 and the challenges of measuring productivity and workplace policy compliance. Rob describes his expectations for flexible working in 2024 and Scoop’s emphasis on the core issue designing how to work effectively.     KEY TAKEAWAYS   [02:45] Rob chooses consulting after college to learn by working with top companies and executives.   [03:58] After a transfer to San Francisco, Rob decides to launch a business with his brother.   [05:52] Scoop addresses commuting pain which Rob is familiar with from high school.   [07:51] When COVID end a significant portion of commutes, Scoop has to reinvent itself.   [09:56] Rob explains their bet in 2020 with the information they had at the time.   [11:19] Society does not adapt to rapid change easily.   [12:28] The two things COVID did to work as we knew it.   [14:27] Rob details the implications of a remote and hybrid operating system.   [17:00] The realization that all that is expected and promised may never come is a stark gift from COVID.   [19:05] How the Flex Index came about.   [22:45] What does scaling a fully remote company look like?   [24:21] The biggest problem facing a fully remote or even hybrid future according to Rob.   [26:13] Rob shares why compliance is complicated with examples of grey areas.   [29:25] What the most successful companies are doing since compliance is challenging to enforce.   [30:45] Rob offers data points reinforcing the broad benefits of offering workforce flexibility.   [32:36] Rob expects recognition of higher performance from employers with flexible working policies will shift sentiment further in 2024.   [34:50] Hybrid is the hardest. We must be intentional about “how” we work.   [37:23] How the Flex Report data is generated and how companies can use this tool to monitor competitors.   [39:16] The Flex Index’s expansion plan to include granular subpolicy information.   [41:09] Productivity is hard to measure and Rob proposes tracking aggregate employee outcomes instead.   [43:49] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: To move forward productively in 2024, start with a good recurring cadence of getting feedback from employees on what’s working for them so you can make adjustments. Second, update leadership development to focus on managing outcomes, projects, and performance, checking in on people you don’t see daily. Third, design a better workflow supported by appropriate documentation and tools.     RESOURCES   Rob Sadow on LinkedIn Scoopforwork.com Scoop on X @scoopforwork The Flex Report     QUOTES (edited)   “It is hard for society to adapt to rapid change. Most adoption cycles take decades.”   “We need people who have grown up in this experience. The executives of the future who grew up in a hybrid or remote capacity, and who will usher in a different set of best practices and understanding on what it means to build companies.”   “Hybrid and remote work fundamentally are not just policies, they are operating systems, and they require a different way of thinking about culture building and relationship development and synchronous versus asynchronous work.”   “The biggest problem for a lot of companies is that a lot of CEOs — in their heart of hearts — hope that hybrid work is a way-station on the way back to full-time in office. So, you have a lot of companies that have laid out a policy, but have done no more than that because they're hoping it's transient.”   “Compliance is somewhat meaningless in practice: You are relying on managers who are going to raise the flag on their employees who are not coming into the office, which is a really fast ticket to total loss of employee trust and bad relationships.”   “CEOs that are pushing hard on five days a week in office are almost deliberately not paying attention to the people who can't do that. And for whatever reason, that conversation still hasn't come really to the forefront.”   “I think the companies that are not requiring full-time in the office are going to outperform on recruitment, retention, engagement, satisfaction, and a bunch of different key employee outcomes that most people believe are leading indicators of performance.”   “The best fully remote organizations in the world are unbelievably intentional in terms of when they're online and offline and how they coordinate on those things, where they document things and how they get together in person.”   “Productivity is extremely difficult to measure because there's a different ‘best’ productivity metric for every different role type and it is variant by industry.”

Margaux Miller is the Global Director of Community at Toptal, a podcast host, emcee, and remote professional. She is focused on engaging Toptal’s fully remote worldwide network of freelance talent. Margaux has much experience building networks and leading community engagement—including her passionate involvement supporting women in tech. Margaux shares insights about the importance of community to create connection and belonging—across fully remote and hybrid teams and organizations. She explains how to build strong community engagement without competition and meet core human relationship needs.     KEY TAKEAWAYS   [02:20] Margaux decides she wants to be a background actor and gets into voice acting very early.   [03:58] Margaux side hustles as the voice of a cartoon for two years while at university.   [05:17] Recording all your lines alone can be challenging!   [06:28] Margaux starts in experiential marketing, quickly leading large teams.   [07:39] Community is a group of people with mutual concern for one another’s welfare.   [09:13] Margaux describes the broad set of skills required for effective community building.   [10:49] Margaux finds her passion building a community for women in technology, combining multiple communities.   [14:04] Trust is a critical for a community to thrive together with clear identity and rewarded participation which all need continuous practice.   [16:43] Distributed communities get stronger during the pandemic as behaviors change.   [18:36] How to maintain a community at a completely remote company.   [20:13] Toptal’s values are discussed in interviews to assure a good mutual cultural match.   [22:03] A community needs a clear boundary or it’s a mob!   [23:26] How Margaux keeps a global community engaged to retain Toptal’s talent network.   [25:32] Connecting people with similar skill sets but in non-competitive ways yields beneficial results.   [27:56] Pulse surveys are one key tool for managing a 140+-multinational diverse community.   [31:24] Margaux advises how create a level playing field to bridge the potential divides of hybrid models.   [33:10] How equitable rule and tools establish new norms to engage fully remote and hybrid workers.   [34:45] Why protocols matter and need to be followed.   [36:34] The biggest benefit of regular in-person gatherings is to reinforce existing relationships.   [39:38] The importance of local connection and communities, which Toptal fosters actively for employees.   [43:08] Where does culture end and community begin?   [44:13] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: To build and strengthen community and belonging, create occasions and environments that are open and accessible for everyone to get involved: design events and spaces where people are encouraged to have fun and build connections. Generate activity with multi-level stakeholders on board, joining in to show it’s safe to share, and reward participation.   [48:11] As a remote professional, Margaux feels the world is her oyster!     RESOURCES   Margaux Miller on LinkedIn Margaux on X @MargauxAMiller Margaux on Instagram Margaux on YouTube      QUOTES (edited)   “For it to be truly a community, there has to be a mutual concern for one another's welfare. Or you could frame it another way to say, a community is a group of people who care about each other and feel they belong together.”   “It goes identity, trust, and participation. When you get people to trust you they're going to come and do the thing: come to the mixer or the event or whatever, be part of the online chat. And then you need to reward them for that behavior.”   “I think that people would be surprised by how much humans want to connect with one another in non-competitive ways. People do truly want human connection, even introverts.”   “People stay with companies so often because of their managers or because of the team that they're on, not necessarily the company, but it's often that group that they're within, that micro-community.”   “Everyone has to be equal at the official event. If you cannot have a level playing field, don't do it. I've seen bosses of small companies take people out for a big dinner and just give everyone a gift card if they can't come. It's not equivalent, you've created a hierarchy now of how people can connect with you as the boss.”  

Paul Wolfe is Author of “Human Beings First - Practices for Empathetic, Expressive Leadership” and a Human First Leadership advocate. Paul was the long-term CHRO of Indeed with a seasoned career in HR leadership. Paul shares how he transferred skills from Customer Service to Human Resources and built his expertise across different cultures and industries. He explains the value of transparency during periods of transformation and offers new career paths options as we transition from career ladders. Paul describes why flexibility is important for every employee and the difference human first leadership makes.     TAKEAWAYS   [02:35] Paul goes to college with a full scholarship but doesn’t like it which displeases his mother, a teacher.   [03:45] Paul leaves college, starts working, then joins American Express and finishes his degree in parallel.   [05:47] CitiSearch.com’s CEO and Founder ask Paul to move from Customer Service to Human Resources.   [06:30] Paul agrees to try the HR role for six months, transfers his skills and enjoys the new role.   [07:50] CitySearch and other companies go under Ticketmaster’s umbrella and Paul takes on an international role.   [09:54] Working three months in each country opens Paul’s eyes about work and other cultural differences.   [11:10] Paul’s philosophy as a CHRO: People get their work done well and clients are taken care of. Timing and surf/walk breaks are not a concern.   [12:03] Recognizing the realities of people working in other countries challenges our assumptions.   [12:50] Paul moves to Match.com initially to run both HR and Customer Service!   [14:05] Moving again within IAC, Paul helps Cornerstone build up an engineering group and go digital.   [16:10] Transparency is key during periods of change to explain what’s happening and why.   [18:04] During the pandemic, with almost no data to inform decisions, Paul increases transparency and discusses what information supports the latest direction.   [20:29] Organizations are living, growing beings with a culture generated by the environment that is everyone’s responsibility.   [22:09] At Conde Nast, Paul explores a non-tech industry and checks he is good at his job!   [24:39] As a storied, family-based corporation, Conde Nast gives Paul new insights about culture.   [26:35] Paul is offered the top HR job at Indeed, but he turns it down. He doesn’t want to move again.   [27:36] Six months later, Indeed still wants Paul to head up HR, agreeing he can stay in NYC.   [29:41] Indeed only uses Indeed to recruit, experiencing what its customers go through.   [30:36] Paul finds everyone focused on protecting Indeed’s culture.   [31:18] Growth is strong, the workforce expands from 1000 to 12,000 and attrition stays low.   [31:41] Paul’s first epiphany about human first leadership happens during a Zoom call in 2020.   [33:44] We are all the same before we become different.   [34:08] Paul does a “Dig” and discovers “Better” is the word driving his personal operating system.   [35:08] To make the world better, Paul leaves Indeed to write a book and spread the message.   [36:42] Employee flexibility is key. Paul believes in treating people like adults.   [37:48] If executives believe hybrid working is negatively impacting collaboration, how were they measuring collaboration effectiveness before?   [38:31] Why not be transparent: describe metrics, trial a plan, and review the data in six months?   [39:02] What about asking employees to discover the range of situations they are dealing with and using that information to develop policies?   [40:52] How much (better) were people really working when in the office at their desk?!   [41:31] Flexibility for employees who have to work onsite—giving them equitable options.   [42:18] Managers are not great at performance reviews, so making remote working a reward for performance is complicated.   [44:30] How leaders can help employees deal with ongoing changes, especially with many unknowns.   [45:38] Transparency about AI and its potential impact supports change management.   [46:35] Individual contributor career paths present new options for those who don’t like or aren’t good at managing, which has been developed in engineering but not other areas.   [48:52] Let’s create two different career paths—a leadership track and an individual contributor track.   [51:51] Engagement, upskilling, career development, and performance should be ongoing discussions.   [56:20] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: We are all human beings first. We are all dealing with a lot and self-care for leaders and everybody is important. What’s more, no one has all the answers. It’s okay—as a leader--to say I don’t know. It’s ok to be vulnerable. IF you have curated a good team, they are going to rally. The better solution comes from collective thoughts from different perspectives.     RESOURCES   Paul Wolfe on LinkedIn Paul Wolfe on X Paul’s book “Human Beings First - Practices for Empathetic, Expressive Leadership” Paul’s website     QUOTES (edited)   “I would always hope that I'm open enough that my perspective on something, my truth on something, can be changed by experiencing something or talking to somebody or hearing a different idea.”   “I think leaders in general, not just HR leaders, need to get more in the mindset of every organization is this kind of living and growing being. It needs nurturing, it needs care taking. You can call it culture. You can call it whatever you want to. But that's not HR leader's responsibility. It's everyone's responsibility.”   “The more that you create this transparency, you start to set the stage for psychological safety within an organization and generate ongoing two-way communication—employees to leaders, leaders to employees, employees to employees. And you end up with better ideas, better solutions to problems, and a more kind of engaged and informed group of people. “   “I've always run my HR organizations with this simple philosophy, treat people like adults more often, not they will act like adults. And the two to 5% that will never act like adults you deal with separately.”   “We all have different needs. So the idea of one size fits all is not right anymore. It's one size breaks all.”   “Let's figure out where your skill gaps are. We'll agree on those. Some of the stuff you're going to have to go get on your own and I'll point you in the right direction. I'll make sure that I give you interesting projects that love that start to tap into those areas that you don't have expertise in. And I'll block and tackle for you because a leader's job is to block and tackle most of the time.”   “My hope with performance, career, and engagement, it just becomes this ongoing conversation that happens.”