Transforming Work with Sophie Wade 105: Denise Brouder — A Systems Approach to De-risk Flexibility at Scale
Denise Brouder, Founder and Head of Data and Insights at SWAY Workplace. As a flexible work skills expert, researcher, and consultant—with a Wall St background in financial oversight and controls—Denise discusses a risk-adjusted systems approach to implement flexibility and optimize performance. She explains why AI is a key factor driving us from fixed hybrid to flexible models as the only viable long-term solution. Denise explains the critical importance of empathy-based trust to effect flexibility at scale and fuel high-performing teams and that to work differently, we need to start by thinking differently.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
[02:39] From rural Ireland, Denise writes to Wall St. banks asking for an internship and gets one!
[03:55] Denise is systems-oriented, finding banks’ capital, economics, and operations fascinating.
[04:37] Denise compares Merrill Lynch and Goldman Sachs as organizations and employers.
[05:17] As a young mother, Denise leaves Wall Street to join a tech startup and get more flexibility.
[06:00] Denise finds she loves the process of starting with a problem and building something.
[06:48] Working in a large company becomes transactional while at a startup to see how your everyday effort contributes to progress.
[07:41] At a fast-paced startup, Denise learns to hustle, figuring things out as they build the business.
[08:22] Denise finds building and scaling with limited resources a very interesting challenge.
[09:02] Denise follows a colleague to LugTrack, launching with five people and a patent.
[10:19] Persistence, creativity, and grit are critical for success as a startup—which are emotional skills.
[11:06] Lithium-ion batteries catching fire on planes meant LugTrack’s business runway ran out.
[11:49] After a course on the Future of Work, Denise takes a big leap of faith and founds a company.
[12:30] Denise recognizes the work change ahead and wants to productize how to work flexibly.
[14:29] Denise wants to yell “AI is coming! AI is coming!” from the hilltop!
[14:45] Denise feels strongly about mastering flexible work at scale to propel everyone forward.
[16:10] Denise thinks that flexibility at scale levels the playing field for women.
[17:10] The first iteration of SWAY is a technology play using apps to convene the conversation digitally around new ways of working.
[18:15] The advancement of women will happen by changing the system from the inside out, making flexibility a gender neutral issue.
[19:38] Denise discovers she is a systems thinker and we have a systems problem.
[20:32] The Science of Flexibility helps de-risk flexibility as an operational strategy for a large company.
[21:17] If flexibility is demonstrated, measured, and communicated like a risk-adjusted talent model, senior leaders can get people on the same page.
[22:49] In SWAY’s work, EQ and empathy demonstrate the intelligence that is in flexibility that we’re going to need in an AI-influenced world.
[23:42] High-performing flexible teams are fueled by empathy-based trust.
[25:32] Emotions are fundamental to our human design, but we only just starting to understand them.
[27:47] Traditional working norms evolved around visual-based trust.
[28:26] In hybrid models, trust levels feel low and are questioned—these are growing pains.
[29:16] Flexibility at scale requires empathy-based trust.
[32:03] The social contract used to provide stability. Now, what is the system? Do we trust it?
[32:49] Reimagining the social contract may be an even bigger shift to prepare for in the future of work.
[33:40] Denise is concerned that some employees are not fighting RTO mandates anymore.
[36:05] In-office mandates are not long-term models, but the current situation is still malleable.
[36:45] In face of AI disruption, Denise’s goal is to articulate that flexibility is not a fad or a perk but an intelligent model for the modern era
[38:33] Mindset is first—to facilitate adaptability and resiliency.
[40:08] If we want to work differently, we have to think differently.
[41:20] Cultural differences about work and historical religious underpinnings.
[43:00] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: First, the Future of Work is a journey, not a destination. Take the pressure off “completing” the transition as it is an evolution. Second, we learn and communicate new ways of working through documentation rather than observation. Third, lead by outcomes and create social space to learn team members’ work styles.
RESOURCES
QUOTES (edited)
“Our original social mission was to level the playing field for women at work, using flexibility at scale.”
“The Science of Flexibility is my way of communicating with senior leaders who are accountable for performance within a flexible model. We have to demonstrate how it works, why it’s better than before, how we measure the impact, and how we deploy it.”
“It’s a risk-adjusted talent model. We explain it in a condensed, easy-to-consume setting under the umbrella term “the Science of Flexibility” specifically for senior leaders.”
“In an AI-influenced world, where a lot of our work is going to be transformed, we are left with the work of being human to one another.”
“We evolved our working norms around visual-based trust. When we were all shifted home for fully remote work, it was a very uncomfortable period. A lot of leaders found themselves on Teams wondering if we trust each other.”
“An in-office model of work is not suitable for where we need to grow economically, regardless of where your industry is. It just isn’t.”
“If we want to work differently, we have to think differently, and if we want to think differently, we start with resiliency.”
“Gen X has always associated a hard day’s work with a sense of decency, patriotism, and honor, and when they look at the younger ones looking to reach those outcomes differently, they have a hard time associating value with that style of work.”