Center for REALTOR® Development

Welcome to the Center for REALTOR® Development podcast. I'm Monica Neubauer, your host. REALTORS® play a powerful role in shaping our communities. Many are deeply involved, while others are just beginning to explore the possibilities. As an industry, we bring tremendous value, not just to buyers and sellers, but to neighborhoods, main streets, and local community development initiatives that make our communities stronger. What many people don't realize is that the National Association of REALTORS® offers a suite of grants, tools, and resources available only to state and local associations, to help turn great ideas into action. Whether it's improving housing access, revitalizing public spaces, or tackling zoning challenges, NAR has programs that can help. Maybe something we discuss today will inspire an initiative you may want to get involved in, or open a door you didn't know was there. [1:50] Joining us to share more is Christine Windle, who helps lead some of these efforts at NAR. Welcome, Christine. [1:59] Monica shares Christine Windle's biography. [3:02] Christine explains that NAR's Community Outreach Program offers several grants: Smart Growth, Housing Opportunity, Placemaking, and Fair Housing. These are available exclusively to state and local REALTOR® associations, not individual REALTORS®. [3:19] NAR's Community Outreach Program has produced webinars for state and local associations of REALTORS® and their leadership on how to leverage these grants. Just Google NAR Community Outreach webinars, and the page comes up. [3:32] The discussion will be how REALTORS® can work through local associations and state associations to identify, advocate for, and support eligible initiatives. All of these projects are meant to be done with the community. [4:03] It's REALTORS® helping the community, in partnership with their local and state association. There are networking opportunities. It's the industry lifting the community. [4:50] The Community Outreach Grant and Resource program is designed to help REALTOR® associations and their leadership engage in transformational work, bringing REALTORS® to the table to support housing opportunity, smart growth, placemaking, and fair housing in their communities. [5:12] Within the program, there are cornerstone grants. The Smart Growth Grant supports local planning efforts, infrastructure, investment planning, zoning reform, and more. It helps associations bring stakeholders together to plan for future growth in ways that are equitable and sustainable. [5:32] The Housing Opportunity Grant is a little different. It focuses on expanding access to home ownership, reducing barriers, and promoting housing affordability. These grants often support first-time buyer education, workforce housing forums, and housing trust fund advocacy. [5:50] The Placemaking Grant helps associations convert underutilized spaces into vibrant public spaces. So think of a pocket park, a trailhead, or alley activation. These small projects can have a really big impact on the quality of life and smarter growth. [6:11] Monica asks to hear more about these individual programs and how they help REALTORS®. [7:12] Christine explains the Housing Opportunity Grant. It's a widely used grant. It's a great member-engagement grant. It's a great grant to leverage for the local association when REALTORS® want to get involved in a Housing Fair. Several local associations will work with partners. [7:30] Partnerships are an important aspect of these programs, with associations leveraging relationships with municipalities, Housing Authorities, and housing counseling entities to put together Housing Fairs. The grant can help support expenses associated with those Housing Fairs. [7:53] The Housing Opportunity Grant Level 2 can be leveraged up to $7,500 to support the venue rentals, expenses, marketing materials, and needed workshop speakers. The REALTORS® work with the local association through the committee structure to help design the event and to help with engagement. [8:15] Many of them come to the table with ideas on what we need to do to get it done this year. We work with the local association. The board of directors of the local association signs off, and the staff applies for the grant. We help them understand what the best practices are with housing fairs. [8:36] Christine says we'll show them the housing opportunity toolkit, which has real-life examples, the REALTOR® success stories, where they can gain inspiration from what others are doing, to build the best program it can be. [9:06] Monica says, If you get started, this is not something to drag your feet on. Start making the plan and start communicating with Christine and her team. Look at the earlier episodes this year about community investment grants to help individuals buy houses, and these episodes, and let the ideas flow. [9:43] Christine explains, you can also use the grant to put together individual homebuyer education initiatives. Local associations are leveraging Level 2 to partner with the municipality to do outreach on Saturdays, where their REALTORS® and affiliates are teaching to help build awareness about education. [10:15] Monica asks about Placemaking. The definition is not complicated. It's making places better. I see that as a high-level term used a lot in zoning language and in government situations. But I don't think the average real estate agent understands what that is or how easy it is to put in their community. [10:52] Christine says our Placemaking program grew out of our Smart Growth program, which is to help REALTOR® associations and REALTORS® engage in building better and more livable communities. [11:04] Think walkability, mixed use, housing affordability, and transit options, growing in versus growing out. That program was being designed in the late '90s. And then, as it grew over the decade, the Placemaking program came about. [11:22] Placemaking means different things. But there was recognition that local associations could get involved in helping build more vibrant communities tactically. What that means to us is converting underutilized spaces. Think of a vacant lot between two buildings. There's potential with that vacant lot. [11:44] Perhaps it's a pocket park that can go in there, or what we call an alley activation, where you could put lights and benches, a gathering spot for the community to get together and to help recognize and realize the potential of that space. [11:59] Once you redesign that space and bring life to it, then the other areas of the town become vibrant. And so what we call Placemaking is quicker, lighter, cheaper projects. [12:12] Christine gives an example. Take that pocket park, where you're putting benches together, maybe put a game table, and lights. The community says, I would like to have lunch there. Let me go to the local deli. That's a spot. You want that to be an attractive spot. [12:27] It's also used for trail heads as well to connect communities and to build parks and to build dog parks, anything that brings in vibrancy. It's an exercise as well for the REALTOR® associations to build partnerships and relationships with local elected officials. [12:46] Often, the association will have an idea, they'll bring it to the municipality, the parks director, and the elected officials, and they'll come together with a plan. The grant can provide support of up to $7,500 for that improvement. There's a lot of potential. The projects must be under half a million dollars. [13:04] It's called Quicker, Lighter, Cheaper projects. We're not financing large capital facility projects; we're financing small parks, pocket parks. As of last year, we listened to our associations, and there was an interest in helping to refurbish some of these smaller-scale initiatives and community assets. [13:26] Local associations can kick in funds to replace that bench that's been there for a long time, and to refurbish a smaller-scale community asset. Christine adds an important aspect: the lot must be publicly owned, not private property or owned by a non-profit. It must be owned by the municipality. [14:16] There's a reason for that. We want the area to be vibrant for years to come. Once the municipality commits to that, we know that that investment from an NAR standpoint is going to stay. And we don't want to put any type of REALTOR® Party dollars toward anything that enriches an individual. [14:40] We want it to be accessible and open to the community at all times. You can't lock it up for a period of six months. It's fine if, at sunset, you have to lock up the park. It has to be accessible to everyone. [15:18] Monica asks about Smart Growth. Christine says to think of Smart Growth as bringing homes near jobs and the ability of residences and businesses to improve walkability and infrastructure, ensuring community revitalization efforts move forward. [16:06] Christine says, think about infill as an example, where we have a vacant building. Is there an opportunity to ensure adaptive reuse or to bring in and develop mixed-use, to create a place where people can live, work, and play? That's the essence of smart growth. [16:31] It's bringing homes closer to jobs. It means safer streets for people walking and biking. A lot of our associations are doing walkability audits to expand sidewalks and put in crosswalks so people can travel safely from one place to another. It has zoning that welcomes a mix of housing types. [17:15] Monica notes that, going to a municipality with potential grants and education, an association can bring more to the table than just a request. [17:42] Christine adds that the program offers a suite of resources, including grants, education, and funding programs that allow technical assessments to help diagnose a real estate problem to ensure smarter growth. [18:00] There are lots of opportunities. We work with all of our local or state associations and meet them where they are in their journey on building better communities, in their journey on smarter growth. So proud of our team. We have Hugh Morris, who has been with us for 20 years. [18:18] He is an urban planner. He has a different lens in terms of helping design educational plans for local associations and helping them with their journey. [18:29] Hannah Dannenfelser, our manager of grant resources, came to us two years ago, helping us focus on Placemaking and really putting together some amazing and incredible toolkits and resources. [18:42] She has a blog to inspire you. She manages our Fair Housing and our Rural Outreach program. We've got a heck of a team! If there's one thing to take away from this podcast, it's that the staff and the committees are here to help local associations leverage these resources to benefit their communities. [19:11] As a real estate speaker, Monica has been invited to many smaller cities across the country. Speaking to those areas, Monica says, if you have a part of your area that needs a little attention, you can help in any phase. It can start with a study, or funding a Housing Fair, or funding a park. [20:07] Monica sees so much potential and excellent energy happening in some of these small cities to create more housing options for people nationwide that she's excited to get this out to our listeners! [20:25] Some places are working so hard to create beautiful spaces, and Monica wants you to know this is available for you. [20:46] Christine says, We meet people where they are. We have a grant for every association. Christine shares an example: Our Rural Outreach Grant Program. This is designed for local associations that have a chartered footprint that includes a municipality with a population under 30,000. [21:11] This grant, put in place three years ago, has helped those local associations put together forums on rural infrastructure, information on getting broadband, and addressing onsite well and septic education with our members. An association in Virginia had an educational field trip on wells and septic systems. [21:55] Other examples are flood plain education and environmental open space preservation education. [22:09] The Community Outreach Program has a tool for local and state associations to reach them. It's the Community Outreach Planning Session. It has been wildly successful since the pandemic. People sign up with Signup Genius and schedule a meeting with the entire team. [22:32] Sometimes other grant managers from different programs will participate. The association asks to talk about X, Y, and Z. We need help with this. They set up a Zoom meeting and spend about 45 minutes or an hour with the association, designing their program and listening to them. [22:56] We listen to what their priorities are. Our team responds to a grant or resource that could help. And then if there's something else that is on their mind, they want to reach NAR on, we of course send them to the appropriate person at NAR. Christine loves spending one-on-one time with associations. [23:24] The local associations are welcome to bring their leadership. We have been on Zoom calls with entire committees and their spreadsheets, deciding how the grant program can support their advocacy priorities. It's a ton of fun and a learning experience. It helps establish a relationship. [23:44] Christine says, Our goal with the Community Outreach Program is for local and state associations to keep these programs top-of-mind as they work through their advocacy initiatives, and discuss these priorities. We want to build a relationship with them. These planning sessions help. [24:02] Associations are always welcome to text or email the Community Outreach Program. They do that when they need help. It's OK. Just reach out to Hugh. Just reach out to Hannah. Just reach out to Christine. [24:38] Monica gives kudos to those local and state associations that have already reached out to the Community Outreach Program and the staff at NAR. We want to see more people do that, which is why we have this episode today. We're trying to educate some more folks. [25:06] Monica brings up the grant opportunity of up to $3,000 to support education for REALTORS®. These grants can cover instructor fees, materials, and curriculum development. Christine says she's hoping our local and state association education directors are listening! [25:46] The Community Outreach Program has several grant programs that offer up to $3,000 for eligible initiatives. They would love for the local associations to take advantage of it. The highest use has been the Fair Housing Grant Level One. [26:01] Last year, we had a hundred local and state associations approved for that Level One to teach Bias Override and Fair Housing CE classes. Christine says, That's a low-hanging fruit. My only suggestion, with all of these grant programs, is please apply early. [26:24] Christine lists classes: Bias Override, Planning and Zoning, Smart Growth Level One, and any type of zoning course; it doesn't have to be our zoning course. The idea is to teach REALTORS® and to build knowledge, so Level One is REALTOR®-only. [26:49] If you want to go wide and go to Level 2, you're welcome to do that. We have a lot of local associations teaching Planning and Zoning and Bias Override, and inviting partners, the construction industry, and elected leaders. That's level two, up to $7,500, because you may need a bigger room. [27:13] The Housing Opportunity Level 1 is being used to teach housing opportunities. If you're a new REALTOR® trying to find the down payment assistance programs available in your area, the local association could put together a program to teach REALTORS® about that. You could take it to Level 2. [27:38] Rural Outreach Level 1 includes well and septic classes, open space preservation, and flood plain education. There's an educational opportunity for the four grants. [27:51] We've also seen ADU workshops. So your municipality has now allowed ADUs. What is that all about? Do a workshop in your local association to teach REALTORS®. Go wide for a Level 2 Housing Opportunity. Maybe consumers want to understand the new ADU ordinance and the design standards. [28:14] Take that opportunity to build great relationships with the community, inviting consumers in. It's inspirational that the local association is taking the lead. Your name is out there, building the REALTOR® brand, and you're ensuring that people know that REALTORS® are leading on these issues. [28:41] Monica says our next episode is going to give you some success stories so you can see a little bit more of how this plays out. You need to apply, and you need to apply early. [28:58] Christine says, The first thing to do, if you're a local association, is study the REALTOR® Party Community Outreach section. We have one page that talks about all of our grants and resources. Also, study the application process and the FAQs, where we talk about eligible expenses. [29:17] Most importantly, sign up for a Community Outreach Planning Session to talk about how one or more grants could help. It's worth taking the time to do that, or just giving us a call and doing a brainstorm. If you're a REALTOR®, get involved with your local association. [29:38] Talk to the local association Executive or Executive Director, the local Government Affairs Director, or the Education Director. Committee involvement is so important. There's strength in numbers. There's no I in team. [30:05] Get involved in the committee. Talk to the board about what's important to the industry. Share your wonderful ideas based on your background. REALTORS® come from all walks of life. Christine is inspired when they come to the committee and they make a suggestion. "Have you thought what if…?" [30:24] So, get in there, network, meet your fellow REALTORS®, support your local association, and, if you're game, rise the ladder and serve on your state association. Get more involved. Get more involved in NAR. [30:40] There is so much there for you and for your business, in terms of relationship-building, knowledge-building, and getting engaged in the community. There are so many benefits for your business and the profession. [30:59] When you're making suggestions, be inspired by those in the room, your fellow committee members, coming up with that idea, always thinking about, can a grant support this? Let me talk to my Association Executive about it, because I heard Monica talk about it a long time ago! [31:21] Save this episode and get back to it after you get involved! It's hard to take in all this information and absorb it. [31:30] Monica says, It is a lot, but you've done a great job, Christine, distilling it into these different areas and giving some snapshots of what's available. Thank you so much for your very clear direction on this! [31:42] Christine adds, about the application process, it opens mid-January and typically closes mid-October, each year. This year, we ran out of money at the end of May. [32:08] Christine's advice is for local and state associations to bring their ideas to the table now, to talk to Community Outreach around the fourth quarter about what they would like to do, and get ready to apply in early January. That gives a chance at the funding. [32:25] Monica says, This is going to come out in the Fall of 2025. Hopefully, some of you have already had some ideas. You can go and plug this right in, but if not, you get those conversations started. If not for a few months, but don't yet. Don't, don't run, but do hurry. Don't run. Do hurry. [32:53] We don't want you to trip, but we do want you to be involved. And you know, you may end up having a call with Christine's team and finding out that there are more pieces to put together, and you may be revisiting it a few months later. [33:05] So some of these things do take time as they create vision for the long-term in the community and for the agents. We're going to wrap up Episode 1. [33:16] Thank you so much to Christine Windle from NAR. We're going to talk about some success stories in Episode 2, so come back and join us there. [22:25] This topic has become known to me because I've gone on NAR Architectural Tours, when you go to the Legislative Meetings, or the NAR NEXT and Annual, and I go to some of the committee meetings, and learn things. [33:38] So I have been following these developments through planning commissions and also in my community in the city and county commission meetings. I'm going and watching how that goes. [33:50] If you want to become more involved, and we hope that you will, you can take the Planning and Zoning Resource Class at Learning.REALTOR. There's an option there. There are also local classes. My association had a Septic Class that's still available on YouTube. [34:09] Your association is creating some of those. Go to some of your meetings and ask your local or state association if they're applying for any of these grants. They may have something in process that you don't know about. Offer to be involved. Join the Government Affairs Committee. [34:30] Thank you so much for coming and joining Christine and me, Monica Neubauer. I hope to see you out as part of the solution for providing more housing options and improving your community. And as you go out there, sell some more houses! Tweetables: "The Community Outreach Grant and Resource program is designed to help REALTOR® associations … engage in transformational work, bringing REALTORS® to the table in meaningful ways, to support housing opportunity, smart growth, placemaking, and fair housing in their communities." — Christine Windle "The Placemaking Grant helps associations convert underutilized spaces into vibrant public spaces. So think of … a pocket park, a trailhead, or alley activation. These small projects can have a really big impact on quality of life and smarter growth." — Christine Windle "Often, the association will have an idea, they'll bring it to the municipality, the parks director, and the elected officials, and they'll come together with a plan. The grant can provide support up to $7,500 for that improvement. There's a lot of potential." — Christine Windle "The projects must be under half a million dollars. Understand, it's called Quicker, Lighter, Cheaper projects. We're not financing large capital facility projects; we're financing small parks." — Christine Windle "The lot must be publicly owned. It can't be on private property. It can't be owned by a non-profit. It must be owned by the municipality. There's a reason for that. We want the area to be vibrant for years to come." — Christine Windle "If you're a REALTOR®, get involved with your local association. Talk to the local association Executive, … the local Government Affairs Director, or the Education Director. Committee involvement is so important. There's strength in numbers." — Christine Windle Guest Links: Christine Windle, Director of Community Outreach at the National Association of REALTORS® https://www.nar.realtor/about-nar/grants-and-funding/community-outreach-grants https://realtorparty.realtor/community-outreach Additional Links: Crdpodcast@nar.realtor Crdpodcast.REALTOR Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education Training4RE.com — List of Classroom Courses from NAR and its affiliates CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered Host Information: Monica Neubauer Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® Monica@MonicaNeubauer.com MonicaNeubauer.com FranklinTNBlog.com Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks Guest Bio Christine Windle Christine Windle serves as the Director of Community Outreach at the National Association of REALTORS®, where she leads the Community Outreach team and oversees the implementation of a suite of programs, grants, and services designed to strengthen state and local REALTOR® association advocacy on public policy issues. With over 35 years of experience in advocacy, communications, organizational leadership, and PAC fundraising, Christine previously served as CEO and Public Policy Director of the Dulles Area Association of REALTORS® in Loudoun County, Virginia. She also held roles at NAR as Community Development Policy Representative and staffed key committees focused on smart growth and housing needs. Her additional experience includes advocacy roles with the American Institute of Architects, the National Society of Professional Engineers, and as a congressional intern for Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD). Christine holds an MPA from George Mason University and a BA in Political Science and Economics from the University of Maryland. She is also a REALTOR® Association Certified Executive (RCE). NAR.realtor/christine-corrado-windle

Welcome to NAR's Center for REALTOR® Development podcast. I'm Monica Neubauer, your host. We welcome back to the show Dr. Rodney Harrell from the AARP. In our last episode, we discussed the AARP Livability Index™ and what is important to our mature buyers and sellers. Dr. Harrell is also a policy specialist, so that's what we're going to focus on today. I love a little government and advocacy things going on! Welcome back! Rodney Harrell, PhD, is the Vice President of Family, Home, and Community at AARP, where he leads national work on housing, livable communities, and aging in place. He created the AARP Livability Index™, guiding how we evaluate and design neighborhoods that truly work. With a PhD in Urban Planning from the University of Maryland and a deep background in public policy and community development, Dr. Harrell brings data-driven actionable insights on how real estate intersects with longevity, lifestyle, and liveability. [:42] We welcome back to the show Dr. Rodney Harrell from the AARP. In our last episode, we discussed the AARP Livability Index™ and what is important to our mature buyers and sellers. Dr. Harrell is also a policy specialist, so that's what we're going to focus on today. Welcome back! [1:08] Monica introduces Dr. Harrell and describes his role with the AARP and his focus on livable communities for mature adults and future mature adults. Dr. Harrell has a PhD in Urban Planning and a deep background in public policy and community development. [1:47] As REALTORS®, we work primarily with people who are buying and selling properties. The nuances of policy may not feel like they directly affect us… until they do! When we do run up against these things, it can be a frustrating wakeup call. By the time we know about it, it may be hard to fix. [2:37] Dr. Harrell says the AARP's Future of Housing initiative considers a range of trends that are impacting needs. One trend is that the population is aging faster than was expected, with 10K people turning 65 every day. [2:58] Since we have not built the types of housing in our communities that support aging, we don't have a lot of housing that meets people's needs at any age and any level of physical ability. [3:09] Simultaneously, we just don't have enough supply of housing. As a country, we are short many millions of units of housing. We don't have enough housing, and housing is too expensive. [3:40] Dr. Harrell notes that we don't have enough housing at different price points. If we get housing that will meet our needs as we age, and it is affordable, is it in the right place? You might not find housing that meets your needs, that you can afford, and that is where you want it to be. [4:12] Housing that has the accessibility features that people might need as they're aging, housing that's affordable, and housing in the right location that meets all our other needs are the three pieces of the puzzle to create the housing that aging adults need. [4:48] Dr. Harrell discusses zoning. Zoning is a huge barrier. It can prevent communities from having the types of housing options that folks need. Communities want to create more flexibility in their neighborhoods. [5:20] The AARP Livability Index™ looks at neighborhoods with options other than a single-family home. Roughly 80% of the neighborhoods in the country only have single-family zoning and nothing else. That means there aren't a lot of options in those places. That's a huge barrier. [5:43] Zoning is just an early step in the process. There are additional barriers in the process of building some of the housing we need, which is part of the reason we have a supply shortage. [6:06] Monica has been looking at government and zoning. Going through the whole process with a development community can take years. If people make decisions based on current needs and not future needs, they may miss something. [6:31] Dr. Harrell says that's why his team at the AARP Public Policy Institute pulled together this Future of Housing initiative. Thinking ahead is required. If you want to buy in a neighborhood, that neighborhood needs to have the housing options that you need. [7:19] It's required to have a long-term thought process when it comes to our housing community choices in this country. Problems that we have today come from not having a long-term approach in the past, and will continue to hurt us if we don't have a long-term outlook for the future. [8:11] One of the challenges with single-family housing zoning across the country is that it prevents people from having some of the options that might work for them. Dr. Harrell loves Accessory Dwelling Units (ADUs). He calls them the Swiss Army Knife of policy solutions. [8:32] You don't need to completely change a neighborhood to allow ADUs. You don't have to build in a green space that might not work for folks. [8:41] In the neighborhoods where people already are and want to be, we can create more housing options by making it easier to build a garage apartment, an apartment in the backyard, or an attached apartment; all the different kinds of housing that are under the label of ADU. [9:02] Dr. Harrell said we've seen that explode over the last few years. People are looking more for those solutions. He loves that you have control over your property to make this home that may work for you for a while, work better for you in the future with a one-level ADU in the backyard. [9:32] Maybe you need a place to help take care of an aging relative. Maybe you're the aging relative in the house and want to have somebody in an ADU who can help take care of you. Maybe you need to build one because you want to have some more income coming in. [9:51] You can do so many things by giving homeowners the ability to do what they need to with their property to make it work for them. ADUs are a big way to do that. [10:03] Monica lives in a newer neighborhood, and the lots are too small to support a backyard unit. Monica loves the uses Dr. Harrell described for an ADU. If you have an option to rent out a portion of your house or a second dwelling on your property, that can be huge. [10:43] Dr. Harrell says that even with small lots, there may be ADU options. We have too many people who are limited in housing choices. We don't need to have all things everywhere in this country, but the more we have of these options we're going to talk about, the better off we all are. [11:25] Dr. Harrell says it may take multiple bites of the apple. It may be baby steps before we run. Almost every community can add more options in and the more options we have, the better off people will be. [11:38] The community Monica lives in, South of Nashville, is "growing, growing, growing." Unfortunately, it has become quite expensive. The developers are recognizing that people want to have some commercial properties near them. They want to have some walkability. [12:01] Monica says a lot of "New Urbanism" communities are popping up in various parts of the county. [12:10] Dr. Harrell sees different varieties of that in other places around the U.S., whether it's transit-oriented development (TOD) or the more general category of mixed-use development. Communities that only have homes on large lots can be limiting and isolating. [12:46] Dr. Harrell has talked to so many people whose dream house several decades ago was a large house on a cul-de-sac, but who are now isolated there, and have no other option in their community, and they want to be able to walk to the shop or to their religious institution. [13:04] We're forcing people to adapt to the limited options that are available to them, instead of providing the options that people want. [13:17] There's a pent-up demand for these mixed-use communities and neighborhoods where you can get to different things that you might want to be near, not thinking of your home and family as isolated, but as part of a community. [13:29] Monica suggests that if they're isolated and have a large lot, that goes back to the ADU conversation. That would be a prime neighborhood to consider for that zoning. [13:49] Dr. Harrell highlights missing middle housing, between single-family homes and high-rises. These can be duplexes, triplexes, townhouses, courtyard apartments, or cottage housing grouped on small lots. [14:50] All of these options may have been illegal according to the limited single-family zoning of your community. This frustrates urban planners and potential homeowners because they can't get into a community or find a home that works for them. [15:08] Making it easier to build different types of homes in a larger community allows folks to have what they need. Dr. Harrell sees it as part of a range of solutions that help people become better able to find housing that might work for them. [15:22] Monica mentions community investment programs that help people get into houses. [15:35] Monica likes the concept of the missing middle. The housing is mid-sized, and it can be priced for middle-income families. "Affordable" has become nebulous and hard to define. [16:10] Dr. Harrell says we need all types of housing, whether it's subsidized housing or smaller units; we need everything in this country. This is a zoning-related solution that communities can do, alongside other policy solutions that might bring in housing, as well. [16:59] Dr. Harrell mentions universal design, visitability, or inclusive design. The fact that our homes don't necessarily fit our needs as we age is a problem in this country. [17:14] A Harvard Joint Center study, a few years ago, said that less than 1% of homes had a set of features that supported aging. Things like zero-step entrances, wide doorways, a bathroom on the first floor, and a bedroom on the first floor. Most homes don't meet our needs. [17:40] The study said that nearly 50% of homes had one of those features, so we're not starting from nowhere. It would be better for us if we had more homes that met our needs. [17:52] The AARP has a HomeFit Model Ordinance, a way that states and communities can make it easier to build homes that have those features. There are lots of policy steps that can be made to make sure that homes have those features that we need. [18:14] The intent is to build homes with more universal design features to make our homes work for people of all ages and all abilities. The features work for someone who might be aging, has a physical disability, is a younger person with a stroller for children, or someone with a sports injury. [18:47] Our homes are places not just for ourselves but for family, friends, and others. Housing that limits the ability of folks to visit us, or live with us, safely and happily, is a problem. We can create more options to build homes that have the features we need. That helps accessibility. [19:12] Building homes, the ADUs, and the missing middle can help with more affordable options that can be in places where we need them. The universal design helps us make sure the homes themselves have the features that help support us, regardless of our ability or our age. [19:40] Dr. Harrell says many folks in the industry, from real estate agents to affordable housing advocates, to AARP, and others, are in favor of getting more of these options into communities. The question is how to do it and what policy steps are needed. [20:12] People may have some differences on how to get there. For all of these things, AARP has model acts. They have partnered with a lot of folks in the housing industry across the country on those models. [20:26] Monica brings up the Not In My Back Yard (NIMBY) factor. When people first hear something, it's easy to reject it because we don't like change. We need to be educated on what the results are, for ourselves and the community, for those things. What does Dr. Harrell suggest? [21:33] Dr. Harrell provides two website addresses: One is AARP.org/homeandcommunity. At the Home and Community hub, there are resources designed for real estate agents and others, including homebuyers, to see what has worked for people with challenges similar to yours. [22:14] Dr. Harrell addresses NIMBYism by telling people the option they're opposing might work for them in the future, a friend of theirs, or a relative or neighbor that might need an option like it, someday. Seeing themselves in these options speaks to a lot of folks. [22:45] Dr. Harrell has spoken to people who opposed these options years ago, and who thought their situation would never change, but it has, and now they're stuck, because their community is still not zoned for them. Personal stories are important for changing attitudes. [23:32] Dr. Harrell shares an account of a family friend who lost income during COVID-19 and needed a new place. ADUs were not zoned in his community, and the subsidized housing waiting list was full. After a year and a half, he found something in the next county. He had few options. [24:36] Dr. Harrell's mother would have built an ADU for the friend in her yard if Zoning policies had allowed it, and everybody would have been happy. Examples like this start to change hearts and minds. [25:05] Dr. Harrell doesn't expect to convince everyone that all these housing options are good ideas. He just wants to convince enough people in more communities so that we can have these options. [25:22] The more people who see the kinds of videos and information he's talking about on the AARP.org/homeandcommunity website, the more those people might be able to make a change. [25:33] For policy-minded people and community leaders, look at the AARP.org/livable website, a hub of resources for community leaders to do all the things we've talked about. [25:46] These two AARP websites, one for homeowners and one for community leaders, help you with the information you need in your home and in your community. [26:03] Monica says, This AARP website needs to be a regular resource in our bookmarks! A lot is going on there. Thank you! [26:12] Monica refers to NAR's RPAC and Advocacy Notifications that REALTORS® can sign up to be a part of and receive messages about urgent policy advocacy needs. [26:39] Dr. Harrell says you can get involved with AARP by going to AARP.org and logging in. Then you can choose to receive notifications on a range of AARP issues, including housing and community work, travel, and discounts. [27:16] The AARP.org/livable website has a Livable Newsletter that goes out often and is very popular. Hear about things as they come out. The HomeFit Model Ordinance just came out a few weeks ago. That was featured in a newsletter issue. [27:32] Dr. Harrell says go to AARP.org and find some great information that might be useful for you or for your clients. [27:41] Monica says one of the things that has stuck out through our conversation is that AARP's mission is to help people when they grow older, but we are seeing some of the same housing needs with young people: smaller units and affordable units. Everybody needs this information. [28:06] AARP has information for all issues, for all REALTORS® to use for all clients in some form. [28:18] Dr. Harrell says, One of the issues here is that you can't change the housing in the country overnight. The issues that are impacting today's older adults are impacting tomorrow's older adults, who are younger people, as well. [28:36] So we need to make these changes today, and then they can serve all of us. That's why we have a lifetime approach to housing. All the livable communities things we're talking about here really work for all ages. [28:49] Dr. Harrell discusses an urban planner study of a couple of years ago about all the things people want in their communities: housing options, being near grocery stores, and parks. [29:00] AARP did a survey when they were creating the Livability Index, about what older adults wanted. They wanted to be near parks, libraries, grocery stores, and some of the same things. That showed Sr. Harrell that we have things in common across the ages. [29:14] Dr. Harrell says, "Think about what we can do to make our communities work for people of all ages, all income levels, and all physical abilities. That could be you, a family member, or a friend. So, does your community have what that person needs?" [29:29] "The answer is, it probably could have more. And if that is the answer, then take some of the steps to make that happen." [29:35] That is an awesome final word! Thank you so much, Dr. Rodney Harrell, from the AARP! [29:41] This was such excellent information! Again, we just want to know what else is available in the world, and you have provided so much great information. If our listeners didn't hear our first conversation about the Livability Index, go back and listen to it. [29:56] And, for our listeners, if you just want to expand your education generally on working with the over-50 population, start with AARP, but then, also, add the Senior Real Estate Specialist course from NAR and from the Center for REALTOR® Development. [30:11] You can find live or online class opportunities at Learning.REALTOR. I've taught that class since 2008, and here's what people say: "Wow! I really didn't know what I didn't know!" It's such a valuable class. [30:27] Thank you, listeners, for joining us! I'm Monica Neubauer for the Center for REALTOR® Development. And with all these new tools, go out there, talk to your clients, build some new handouts, send some new things, and then get involved and sell some houses! Tweetables: "Since we have not built the types of housing in our communities that support aging, we don't necessarily have a lot of housing that meets people's needs at any age and any level of physical ability. Simultaneously … we just don't have enough supply of housing." — Rodney Harrell, PhD "You don't need to completely change a neighborhood. You don't have to build in a green space that might not work for folks. In the neighborhoods where people already are and already want to be, we can create more housing options." — Rodney Harrell, PhD "Maybe you need a place to help take care of an aging relative. Maybe you're the aging relative in the house and want to have somebody in an ADU who can help take care of you. Maybe you need to build one to … have some more income coming in." — Rodney Harrell, PhD "We have too many people who are limited in their housing choices. We don't need to have all things everywhere in this country, but the more we have of these options … the better off we all are." — Rodney Harrell, PhD "Housing that limits the ability of folks to visit us, or to live with us, and safely and happily; it's a problem." — Rodney Harrell, PhD "We need to make these changes today, and then they can serve all of us. That's why we have a lifetime approach to housing. All the livable communities things we're talking about here really work for all ages." — Rodney Harrell, PhD Guest Links: Rodney Harrell, PhD, Vice President, Family, Home and Community, AARP Public Policy Institute AARP Livability Index™ REALTORS® Property Resource® Future of Housing, AARP AARP.org/homeandcommunity AARP.org/livable Additional Links: Crdpodcast@nar.realtor Crdpodcast.REALTOR Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education Training4RE.com — List of Classroom Courses from NAR and its affiliates CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered Host Information: Monica Neubauer Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® Monica@MonicaNeubauer.com MonicaNeubauer.com FranklinTNBlog.com Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks Guest Bio Rodney Harrell, PhD Rodney Harrell, PhD, is Vice President, Family, Home, and Community (FHC) for AARP. In that role, he leads AARP Public Policy Institute's FHC team of experts on long-term services and supports, family caregiving, and livable communities, and he is an enterprise lead across AARP on housing and livable communities issues. Dr. Harrell first joined AARP in 2008 and served as a senior advisor and as a director in the Public Policy Institute prior to becoming a vice president. He led the team that created the award-winning AARP Livability Index™ platform, which measures the livability of every neighborhood and community in the United States, and builds on his research on housing preferences, neighborhood choice, and community livability. Before joining AARP, he was an independent research and evaluation consultant and a researcher and instructor at the University of Maryland. He has also been a CPAR Research Fellow at the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation and a Maryland Governor's Policy Fellow, leading programs in the Maryland Department of Housing and Community Development/Maryland Heritage Areas Authority. Dr. Harrell is a member of the board of trustees of the National Building Museum, is chair of the Champions Council of the Coalition for Smarter Growth, and a board member and past chair of the Board of Visitors for the University of Maryland School of Architecture, Planning and Preservation. He formerly served as the vice chair-policy for the American Planning Association's Planning and the Black Community Division and has served on several local boards and committees in Maryland. He is a member of the Phi Beta Kappa and Phi Kappa Phi honor societies and was named to the initial class of Top Influencers in Aging for his work with AARP. He holds a doctorate in urban planning and design from the University of Maryland, earned dual master's degrees in public affairs and urban planning from the School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University, and graduated summa cum laude from the honors program at Howard University with a bachelor's degree in political science. aarp.org/pri/experts/rodney-harrell/

Welcome to NAR's Center for REALTOR® Development podcast. I'm Monica Neubauer, your host. We are very excited to have Dr. Rodney Harrell from the AARP as our guest today. Rodney Harrell, PhD, is the Vice President of Family, Home, and Community at AARP, where he leads national work on housing, livable communities, and aging in place. He created the AARP Livability Index™, guiding how we evaluate and design neighborhoods that truly work. With a PhD in Urban Planning from the University of Maryland and a deep background in public policy and community development, Dr. Harrell brings data-driven actionable insights on how real estate intersects with longevity, lifestyle, and liveability. He is a housing specialist who focuses on housing for mature adults and people who want to become mature adults one day. [:52] We are very excited to have Dr. Rodney Harrell from the AARP as our guest today. Welcome, Rodney! [:57] Monica introduces Dr. Harrell and describes his role with the AARP and his focus on livable communities for mature adults and future mature adults. [2:10] Monica is excited to talk with Dr. Harrell. She taught the Senior Real Estate Specialist Designation for many years. She brings up these points about 50-plus people: Boomers do not want to be called Seniors. The 50-plus market has three generations in it. What do the 50-plus want to be called today? [2:40] Dr. Harrell says it's important to consider that aging isn't always the same. It's not the same as it has been, and it's not the same as it will be in the future. It's not the same for everybody. Your aging journey is your journey. [2:54] Dr. Harrell likes to think about people by age group. People who are 50 and older are part of the 50-plus population. More importantly, he thinks about people at life stages. What's going on in their life, family, and self? Are you an empty nester, not driving, or having trouble with stairs? [3:26] For thinking about people as a group, age ranges or life stages are useful. Dr Harrell likes to think of people as individuals. [3:34] Monica is of an age where she could have grandchildren. She has grown children, and she could have grandchildren, but she doesn't. She's rearranging her life stage with some of the other things that go with grandchildren, but not having that mile marker. [4:01] Dr. Harrell notes that we go through these different parts of life at different points. When he talks to people about housing decisions, he asks them to think about where they are today and where they think they will be in the future, not where someone tells them they should be. [4:22] We should all think about our life journey. When we're talking to folks who are buying real estate or making housing decisions, the more we can personalize and make this decision point about them, the better off we'll be. [4:51] Monica starts a discussion of the AARP Livability Index™. How do REALTORS® use it? Dr. Harrell and his colleagues at AARP created it 10 years ago. It's the world's first nationwide, neighborhood-based livability index. [5:30] The index measures every neighborhood in the country across 61 indicators and creates seven category scores, including Housing, Transportation, the Environment, and Healthcare. Using the seven scores, it creates a combined score. [5:48] Dr. Harrell and his team created the index with input from experts around the country to answer the question of what makes a community livable. [4:54] What is the kind of community that people of all ages, incomes, and ability levels can age in? How do we measure that and put it in a way that anybody can grasp quickly? It took about three years to put the Index together. They've been improving it for 10 more years. [6:15] Monica points out that tools like that are very interesting. It creates easy searchability. She has been looking at her own community with the AARP Livability Index™. It was interesting to see how the Index rates things and why her community had low scores in certain areas. [6:52] Monica says the Livability Index is connected with the REALTORS® Property Resource®. [7:08] Dr. Harrell says he loves the relationship the AARP Livability Index™ has with the RPR®. In the RPR®, you can see the Livability Index score and the category scores for this ZIP Code. Those tell you if the neighborhood has the options that people need as they are aging. [7:32] These are things like transportation options, options to walk to things they might need, options for healthcare, and options to be outside in a healthy way. The Index measures a lot of things about each neighborhood. [7:45] You can quickly access the scores through RPR® or go back to the AARP site from RPR® and see more details. [7:59] Dr. Harrell talks about important factors for the Livability Index. Transparency. It doesn't just give you a 13 for environment. It tells you about the water quality and air quality. It tells you the source for the figures, so you can find out more and try to improve it in your community. [8:32] If you're trying to buy a home, take that into account as one of the tradeoffs of living in this place. Dr. Harrell says many people make housing decisions without doing a thorough evaluation of how it might meet their needs today and tomorrow. The goal of the Index is to help fill that gap. [8:50] The Index gives a lot of information, so people thinking about a neighborhood on the East side of town or the West side of town can look at the Index and find out about this neighborhood or that one. [9:04] Dr. Harrell shares that there's no perfect neighborhood. No neighborhood in the country gets 100 out of 100 on this Index. Each community has tradeoffs. Understanding those tradeoffs that you're making to be in this place or that one helps you make a better decision for yourself. [9:36] Dr. Harrell says they put together the Index to help you think about the future and the kinds of things you might need. Many people don't think about the fact that if they're driving today, they might not be driving tomorrow. On average, we outlive our driving years by several years. [9:56] What might happen if you're driving today, but will no longer want to or be able to? Having public transportation options or being able to walk to stores nearby becomes much more important. If you've bought a house but haven't thought about it, that could be a challenge. [10:17] The Index helps real estate customers think about their needs today and into tomorrow. [10:27] Monica shares her experience using the Livability Index. It's incredibly easy. She could see clearly the process they follow to get the scores. Real estate agents can use it as a resource when people ask, "Well, what's it like in your area?" There's so much in the Livability Index. [11:19] Just going through the Livability Index will get them educated about their community. [11:43] Dr. Harrell says they pored over each category of the Index with their technical advisor committee and their experts at the Public Policy Institute at AARP. They wanted something that would tell a narrative about transportation, opportunity, civic and social engagement, and more. [12:03] The Index is about the types of things people want and how to measure that. It's important to have things that can be measured. Not everything important is measurable. Over the years, one of the goals was to make it more user-friendly. Todney says, today, anybody can use it. [12:31] It's a great tool to supplement the other parts of your real estate journey. [12:46] Monica says it led her right through it. She learned a lot in five minutes of easy clicking. [14:14] Monica asks Dr. Harrell what he has learned about the aging population from this data. Dr. Harrell says that lived experience is so important because it gives us the background to understand ourselves and where we are. [14:43] Dr. Harrell says it amazes him how many people don't think they're going to get older than they are today. Whatever life stage they're in is where their mindset is. They address the issues they have at that life stage. One of the big things at AARP is thinking about the future. [15:17] The AARP has an initiative called The Future of Housing. Dr. Harrell asks people who are buying a home to think about the future remodeling they may need. What options may they need, such as a zero-step entrance, a bedroom on the first floor, and nearby transportation? [16:08] If you think about not just where you are today, but where you might be tomorrow, you're going to make better decisions, no matter what decision you make. It will be better if you think about the future. [16:18] Monica thinks the AARP Livability Index™ and this podcast episode might be good tools for real estate agents to share with their customers. [17:10] Dr. Harrell says the AARP launched the Livability Index at the American Planning Association's National Conference. It shows urban planners designing communities, AARP's suggestions for housing near transportation, stores, libraries, and parks. [17:34] That's valuable for REALTORS® as well. They can talk to clients and say AARP thinks that it's important to have someplace where you can walk for exercise and have access to stores, libraries, and places where you can interact with other folks. This neighborhood has more of that. [18:17] Monica and Dr. Harrell discuss mature adults moving into independent housing communities. Dr. Harrell says 10K people are turning 65 every day in the U.S. By 2034, there will be more people over 65 than under 18, for the first time in U.S. history. [19:47] All of what we've learned for centuries about communities and housing is shifting. Aging is here, and it's our future. Dr. Harrell mentions an AARP initiative, "Future of Housing." AARP surveys show that the vast majority of people want to stay in their communities as they age. [21:03] If 80%-plus of older adults want to stay in their home or community, that still leaves a lot of people moving to Florida and Arizona. There will be people trying to stay in their home and community, or find options nearby to downsize. Others will be moving to retirement communities. [22:14] Some retirement apartments are second homes for older adults where they spend a season near their adult children. The AARP Livability Index™ includes a Community Finder tool, where you can enter a core location, like your child's house, and search for nearby communities. [23:07] This feature lets you specify a community with X, Y, Z features near your child's home, or near a university, hospital, or favorite sports team, etc. There's a quiz to take to help you find communities that meet your needs. [23:41] Monica says, Dr. Harrell, this is so much good information! The second episode will talk about policy and come back to the future of housing. Monica asks two questions to wrap up this episode. [23:58] The first question is what fun and quirky things Dr. Harrell has learned that he can share with our listeners. The second is Dr. Harrell's final word on how he would encourage real estate agents right now, and their older adult clients, the bulk of the people buying and selling houses. [24:22] Older adults are a large part of the population, and growing. A quirky question: Dr. Harrell was talking with a woman in her 90s in Alabama. He asked what would happen when she could no longer go up and down the stairs. She said she hadn't thought about it yet. [24:43] It reminded Dr. Harrell that no matter how old you are, you're not too old to think you're too young to worry about being old. All of us need to think about it. There are so many of us who are not thinking about the future. Dr. Harrell hopes we can all do that. [25:05] Dr. Harrell's charge to our listeners: "As you're out there helping people, whether they're 30, 40, 50, 80, 90, or anywhere in between, help them to think about their needs today and also how their needs might change, over time." [25:20] "What happens if their income might shift? What if the economy shifts? What happens if they cannot get up the stairs anymore? Or a spouse passes? Just help them have that thought about their future and their lives." [25:32] "That's what leads to folks having better housing decisions that better meet their needs over time. That's the real goal, by the way, that we have at AARP in this housing space, having people end up in better housing positions than they would have otherwise without our help." [25:48] "And so we create this Index and a range of other things, our Home Fit Guide, so many things that we create that help people get to the homes that best work for them and the options that best work for them." [25:58] "I think all of our listeners are important parts in helping people make those decisions, so please do. Folks out there can use a little help sometimes, making the right call." [26:10] I am such a fan of data, and I'm really quite excited that we had you on the podcast, and that I learned how much data… I'm a member of AARP, and I read your magazine, and there's all kinds of information, but I didn't know all of this! [26:26] So, I want all of us; this is a tool for everyone to use for everything. Don't limit yourself because I love all the data, and we as real estate professionals need to provide as much data to our clients as possible, don't we? [26:40] Dr. Harrell agrees, as much information as possible. There's no such thing as too much information, unless it becomes overwhelming. All the information that you could have, and then put it in a way that people can use it; that's one of the things that we see as important. [26:52] Take all the data and information possible, but then, distill it down to what folks need, and that's what we try to do with the Index, and hopefully, we can do that with all those customers, as well. [27:03] Awesome! Thank you so much, Dr. Rodney Harrell from the AARP! This was, in my opinion, excellent information for us to know about this segment, but really, for all of our clients. There are so many great tips, and this tool is for everyone. [27:19] So, join us next time, as Dr. Harrell and I discuss policies in government that affect our senior community. We'll talk about the future of housing. These are things you're going to want to be aware of and possibly get involved with at your state or maybe your local level. [27:34] If you want to expand your education on working with the over-50 population, or if you want to know more information to help aging members of your family, take the Senior Real Estate Specialist course from NAR and the Center for REALTOR® Development. [27:49] Find live or online class opportunities at Learning.REALTOR. I've taught that class since 2008. It is an amazing treasure trove of information. It's practical and it's immediately implementable in your business. [28:06] Thank you, Dr. Harrell. Thank you to our listeners. I'm Monica Neubauer for the Center for REALTOR® Development. With all these new tools, go out there and have more conversations and sell more houses! Tweetables: "It's important to think about that aging isn't always the same. It's not necessarily the same as it was, and it's not necessarily the same as it's going to be in the future. It's not the same as it is for everybody else. Your aging journey is your journey." — Rodney Harrell, PhD "My colleagues and I created the AARP Livability Index™ 10 years ago. It's the world's first nationwide, neighborhood-based livability index." — Rodney Harrell, PhD "More importantly for me is thinking about folks at life stages. What's going on in your life, with your family, with yourself? That is a better description of you. Are you somebody who's an empty nester, now, regardless of what age that is?" — Rodney Harrell, PhD "What can we get that tells a story, that tells a narrative about each of these things? Transportation, opportunity, civic and social engagement; the other categories of the index? What are the types of things that people want and how can we measure that?" — Rodney Harrell, PhD "It never ceases to amaze me how many people don't think they're going to get older than they are today. People think of whatever life stage they're in, that's where their mindset is. They're going to address the issues that they have at that life stage." — Rodney Harrell, PhD "There's no such thing as too much information, unless it becomes overwhelming. All the information that you could have, and then put it in a way that people can use it; that's one of the things that we see as important." — Rodney Harrell, PhD Guest Links: Rodney Harrell, PhD, Vice President, Family, Home and Community, AARP Public Policy Institute AARP Livability Index™ REALTORS® Property Resource® Future of Housing, AARP Additional Links: Crdpodcast@nar.realtor Crdpodcast.REALTOR Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education Training4RE.com — List of Classroom Courses from NAR and its affiliates CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered Host Information: Monica Neubauer Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® Monica@MonicaNeubauer.com MonicaNeubauer.com FranklinTNBlog.com Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks Guest Bio Rodney Harrell, PhD Rodney Harrell, PhD, is Vice President, Family, Home, and Community (FHC) for AARP. In that role, he leads AARP Public Policy Institute's FHC team of experts on long-term services and supports, family caregiving, and livable communities, and he is an enterprise lead across AARP on housing and livable communities issues. Dr. Harrell first joined AARP in 2008 and served as a senior advisor and as a director in the Public Policy Institute prior to becoming a vice president. He led the team that created the award-winning AARP Livability Index™ platform, which measures the livability of every neighborhood and community in the United States, and builds on his research on housing preferences, neighborhood choice, and community livability. Before joining AARP, he was an independent research and evaluation consultant and a researcher and instructor at the University of Maryland. He has also been a CPAR Research Fellow at the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation and a Maryland Governor's Policy Fellow, leading programs in the Maryland Department of Housing and Community Development/Maryland Heritage Areas Authority. Dr. Harrell is a member of the board of trustees of the National Building Museum, is chair of the Champions Council of the Coalition for Smarter Growth, and a board member and past chair of the Board of Visitors for the University of Maryland School of Architecture, Planning and Preservation. He formerly served as the vice chair-policy for the American Planning Association's Planning and the Black Community Division and has served on several local boards and committees in Maryland. He is a member of the Phi Beta Kappa and Phi Kappa Phi honor societies and was named to the initial class of Top Influencers in Aging for his work with AARP. He holds a doctorate in urban planning and design from the University of Maryland, earned dual master's degrees in public affairs and urban planning from the School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University, and graduated summa cum laude from the honors program at Howard University with a bachelor's degree in political science. aarp.org/pri/experts/rodney-harrell/

Welcome to NAR's Center for REALTOR® Development podcast. I'm Monica Neubauer, your host. How many of you would like some more good tools to help more buyers buy homes? I say more, because we talked about this in our other episode with Skyler Lemons, and we are here with Kameron Kang from Washington, D.C. Welcome, Kameron! I met Kameron, and he has some great news, so I said, I need you to share this! Kameron has spent the last decade working across the housing world, from construction to real estate sales to community planning. He started his career as a real estate agent and broker in Washington, D.C., where he built a team focused on helping first-time buyers, especially those using purchase assistance programs. [1:05] We are here with Kameron Kang. Welcome Kameron! [1:26] Kameron started his career as a real estate agent and broker in Washington, D.C., where he built a team helping first-time buyers using purchase assistance programs. Over a couple of years, he led more than 500 homebuyer seminars. His work has centered on making home ownership accessible. [1:55] That has taken Kameron into everything from advising developers to consulting on housing policy and serving on real estate boards. He also runs a small hospitality business for short-term rentals. [2:11] Kameron started in the Army and Army National Guard, serving in the Infantry and Psychological Operations. He's mission-driven, collaborative, and focused on solving problems. [2:28] Kameron studied at Syracuse University and Valley Forge Military College and is originally from the Scranton area of Pennsylvania. [2:35] Today, Kameron is focused on connecting buyers and professionals with the funding tools and programs that are out there but often underutilized. He is happy to have been working in the industry in many different ways. [3:17] Kameron says that the foundation of his real estate journey was with the downpayment assistance program of the Veterans Administration loans. He'll talk about that in today's episode. [3:32] Washington, D.C. has been a challenging market for many years. It's a complex market with highly educated buyers and expensive housing, relative to income. Kameron says we can make it work with creative solutions. [4:15] Kameron calls them community home investment programs (CHIPs). These are investments by the community in home ownership. That's going to be one of the solutions to getting us out of the housing crisis that we are in. [5:00] Kameron recalls the marketplace from 2015 to 2020. It was more balanced, and people were interested in homebuying, but there were barriers. We didn't have the media saying homes were completely unaffordable. People wanted to buy but didn't know how. [5:37] From 2020 to 2022, the media said, "Now's the time to buy a house." Kameron had 20 to 50 people in seminars, excited to buy, but having no idea how. [5:48] Now, it has pulled back because the narrative is that homes are completely unaffordable. People are generally afraid. That creates a lot of opportunity for REALTORS® to stand on soapboxes and yell out, "We have programs!" [6:17] Monica agrees, it's up to the agents to go out into the community and push back against that narrative. Agents will have to get into real conversations and hold seminars. [6:48] That's where we'll be able to show our value as professionals in communities. Kameron calls the theme Boots on the Ground, REALTOR® Now, to start acting in our communities. [7:06] Seminars are one of the first places to start educating in communities, and get people inspired and believing again that homeownership is in their future. [7:37] Kameron once watched a Navy recruiting video of a woman who had been able to buy a house right away, utilizing the Veterans Administration Loan. Kameron had had housing instability, so that video message was impressed into his brain. He was inspired and wanted to do the same. [8:14] Kameron was obsessed with using his VA Loan ASAP to buy his first place. Within months of becoming eligible to use it, Kameron bought a home, building a strong foundation. [8.28] When Kameron was in Washington, D.C., working for a real estate team, one of the agents was doing seminars on local community home investment programs, or CHIPs. They were popular. Other agents saw that they helped grow business. [8:55] As the Business Development Coordinator, Kameron was tasked with making the seminars more consistent and better. [9:07] When Kameron launched his sales career, he loved seminars, so he did 500 of them over two years, sometimes three a day. Whether it's for one person or 50, it is an opportunity to share information and inspire people in a no-pressure sales situation. He couldn't fail. [10:05] He was concerned with people getting value from the seminar. Kameron thinks they did. [10:20] Monica explains that Kameron's goal was 500 seminars, with marketing to get people there. He trusted that if he brought value, the result would be money. [10:33] Monica says if you do seminars, and find out after a certain number that you end up with so many clients, that helps you refine your goal. Your goal can be seminars or talking to people. [11:00] Kameron says the seminars started as two hours, with all the details of the homebuying process. People didn't retain it. Kameron refined them to 30 to 40 minutes of content. [11:37] The seminar was to give an overview and focus on key elements, such as what's possible in financing, and give people knowledge about what to expect along the way. [11:54] In seminars, Kameron would say, "My goal today is to give you an idea of what the whole mountain looks like. I'm going to give you the information and the next steps you need to take." [12:09] "I'm not gonna tell you that there's a branch halfway up the mountain that you're gonna forget about. I'm telling you what you need to know today that will get you through the next few steps." Kameron says it allowed them to stay at a high energy level and not be bogged down. [12:40] By the structure of the seminar, Kameron made the process seem unintimidating, and it showed how easy it is to work with him. This is enjoyable if it's handled in this bite-sized format. [12:59] Monica adds, there's the mountain, but the first step is financing. And that's with everybody, whether they have a lot of money and you need to teach them how to get their cash ready, or they need the CHIPs. [13:12] The next step, Kameron told everyone, is a lender strategy call, so that they can figure out where they stand financially, relative to buying a house. And once they have those details, transition to an agent strategy call. Those were the two action steps. [13:35] The agent strategy call starts with a number. You can take that number, see tangible properties, and get an idea of what you could afford. You might go back and forth between lender and agent until you're in a position where what you qualify for fits the needs of your family. [13:58] It gave them a very tight framework. It gave them no commitments, because it's scary to commit early. But it worked well. People appreciated it. Kameron gave them multiple lenders. [14:15] Kameron told them the three options that he'd recommend if they're looking at certain programs. That takes having strong relationships with loan officers. When it came to talking to an agent, Kameron put himself on the follow-up email. [14:32] Kameron would say, You can talk to me. I'm available, but if you have somebody else, you can talk to them. Kameron gave them options. You're doing this for a reason, so make sure you put your name down as an option to talk to. [14:51] Sometimes people asked if they could work with him. It was incredible because they did not feel pressured. People said, We just want to make sure we can reach out to you. And Kameron said, yes, he would love to work with them on this process. [15:24] Kameron sees agents struggling with showing their value and what they bring to the table. After these seminars, people would email months later, We've been doing the lender strategy call. Would you be willing to work with us? We have everything done. [15:54] Kameron would say, OK, yes. It was one of the best experiences he had, compared to how agents are taught to bombard people. Kameron thinks the REALTOR® way is seminars. [16:38] Kameron tells how people find down payment assistance programs. Sometimes it's word-of-mouth from friends. They see someone buy a house or they see somebody on social media. Be specific in your social media to make people aware of these programs. [16:56] In D.C., the housing agency offers DC Open Doors, HPAP, and other options. DC is a cerebral market, so a lot of people search for grants on their own. They're looking for options. [17:09] In some other marketplaces, people might not even know programs exist or are available to them. In the U.S., there are over 1,500 programs that Kameron would qualify as CHIPs. [17:29] There are so many of these programs all across the country. Massachusetts leads the pack. Maryland has quite a few. They are everywhere. They are impactful. [17:43] Kameron has a website, homebuyerwallet.com, with a national database of programs to make the search user-friendly. Put your town in, and search for down payment assistance, closing cost assistance, or home-buying programs. Do different term searches and see what pops up. [18:11] Kameron developed homebuyerwallet.com because the government websites are pretty tough sometimes. Kameron calls these community home investment programs because they are investments by the community. They're not handouts. [18:41] This is helping a community member who is employed, is maybe a Millennial who did everything they were supposed to do, and who doesn't have a cash down payment. [19:01] A homebuyer should not feel bad about help from the community. An agent shouldn't feel bad about helping their community members who are on that fringe. [19:23] It is incredibly important to have owned stable housing communities. It is an investment from the community in homeownership. Homeownership in communities is important. It matters. [19:47] If you're willing to invest half a billion dollars into a football field or the home of a sports team, you should be willing to invest in the community members. It's really important to have communities filled with active, engaged homeowners who love where they live. [20:09] Communities will see the return on investment every time if they invest in these programs. [20:20] Monica says people have different opinions about the policy when it's being talked about. Once something becomes available, by all means, please take advantage of it. [20:51] That money has now been made available; whether you thought it was a good idea or not is irrelevant. Let's use it. Let's make sure that the people who qualify for the funds are using them. [21:18] Kameron says, in terms of us providing value as REALTORS® in our communities, boots on the ground, we can transform these programs and have more funding invested in them. [21:31] Imagine being a REALTOR® in your community when you're sitting across from buyers and they say, Why are you worth this? Why are you worth this commission or this fee? [21:42] And you say, Well, have you been to a recent community meeting? No? I have. And I advocated for this $20,000 of funding that you are going to use to buy your house. And I'm one of the people who advocated for this time and time again. [21:58] So imagine the value that if you're sitting there as a REALTOR®, stressed about what value you bring. People find houses online. People bring Kameron houses all the time. You can go to an open house. But how do you transform your value proposition? [22:13] You advocate for your community, and you shape programs that fit that community. And that's something that you'll see from 1,500 programs. There's a vast range of what these programs can offer. [22:27] In DC, one of the biggest programs in terms of offerings is HPAP. And that's the Home Purchase Assistance Program. The maximum assistance for that program is $202,000 for a down payment. And then it's $4,000 for closing costs. So that's a $206,000 program. [22:46] The condo market in DC is quite slow. The way that program is handled is it's a zero-interest, 45-year loan on that $200,000. So when you talk about affordability, it's not just what the house sells for; it's about how the financing is structured. [23:03] And that's one of the big areas where, if you spread out those costs over that period, you can recharge a whole market segment. [23:11] Kameron explains how this applies to housing for people leaving college or trade school. Instead of getting sucked into the luxury rental cycle, where, yes, you might get three months free, but it's not free. You're trapped in that rental cycle because it costs money to move. [23:42] Kameron suggests an alternative. Before you leave college, start looking at these programs. You can get a program like HPAP or DC Open Doors to help you get a small condo. [24:00] If we want to, we can fund these programs and start to spur a whole generation of people trading up. It starts with advocacy to make sure more of this funding is available and more of these programs work for people. We have to let people know that this option works. [24:28] Monica asks about a second mortgage kind of program, which can be a little bit complicated, but because they're complicated doesn't mean they're a bad deal. Sometimes real estate agents don't even understand them. [24:42] Monica asks, How do we partner with the lenders who do understand this and can, first of all, train us? How are you connecting with lenders to advance your lender partnerships to improve these programs for your buyers? [25:06] Kameron says, Teamwork makes the dream work. So you don't need to know every factor or detail. The home-buying process is the same. We're just adding a few additional elements. [25:18] As a REALTOR®, remember, it is the same general process. You identify a house. Some of the order is different, and some timelines are extended. As the REALTOR®, you take the lead. [25:35] Kameron succeeded because he took the lead in all of these instances. He said, I'm going to have ownership of this. I'm going to know what needs to happen and when it needs to happen. It's simply a checklist. You just need a checklist. [25:58] We've got to get this document. At this time, we have to contact these people. The key part is communicating so all stakeholders are engaged. Stakeholders, meaning you, your buyers, the listing agent, the lender, and the sellers, need to understand the value of this. [26:15] Do you want top dollar for your house? Then we need to have this program work. So you're gonna have to wait an extra 30 days, and that's okay, because some of the timelines are extended. [26:26] Kameron talks about loan officers. With a government-based program, there might be multiple loan officers to work with. So, find the officers who want to do this type of business. [26:40] Certain loan officers in Kameron's market are very engaged. They'll go to the town hall and advocate with you. Work with those people. Those are the ones that you want. [26:50] If it's bank-specific, where they might be offering through the Community Reinvestment Act, it's a requirement for some of these credit unions to invest in the community, and they'll do a $15,000 grant. And when they have programs like that, then you need to work with that lender. [27:07] There are typically multiple lenders in that institution. So, find the one that is really into the program, and they can process it. The lenders have a lot more capacity. You just need to find the diamond in the rough when it comes to that. [27:25] Don't look for someone to be the hero. You, the REALTOR®, are the hero of this process. This is where your value is and how you're going to command your commission. [27:36] It is a great way to make sure that you earn the money that allows you to be a community advocate so that these people can live their lives the way they want. Use a checklist. Kameron is working on ways to help create systems to enable having a checklist and the right information. [27:59] Monica talks about finding the lenders through the grant, because not every lender does every CHIP. Sometimes you need to start with a program and see who the approved lenders are, and get to know who the banks are in your area. [28:13] Monica had an email once from a bank that is committed to helping people move forward in home ownership. They had a special program. Monica went in and met their lenders. [28:27] You get on email lists. When you're connected, you will start to find out about programs. Go to vendor fairs, talk to lenders, and ask, What's your unique program? They'll tell you. [28:42] Kameron notes that it is a lot of work. He goes back to why he decided to build Homebuyerwallet.com. He had a client who came to him and said, Hey, Kam, this company, George Mason Mortgage, has this $15,000 program. And Kameron hadn't heard of it. [29:00] Kameron said, Certainly let me examine this because there are some gimmicks out there. Some programs aren't real programs, in his opinion. He looked into it. The program was awesome. It was $15,000 at a reduced interest rate. [29:14] Kameron spends significant time on this issue, but he hadn't heard of the program. You still might miss some, but you go to where the flagship programs are in your area. And you have to go look at different lenders or institutions. [29:37] They're bad at marketing, sometimes. Nobody knew about that George Mason program until everybody knew about it. It was a missed opportunity. Homebuyerwallet.com is fixing that. [29:51] Monica adds, You create a win-win because the lenders want people that they can help as well. So that goes back to the partnership. She says, If you've got the REALTORS®, you've got the lenders working on it, then the third leg is that advocacy. [30:05] Monica puts a plug in for our members to go join their advocacy committee at the Association of REALTORS® in their area. She makes another point that there are city, county, state, and federal programs. You need to advocate and be aware at all levels, not just one. [30:28] Kameron attended legislative meetings in Washington, D.C., and the rooms in the Housing Opportunities Committee meeting were packed. The room in the Housing Committee meeting was packed. [30:44] Kameron says we're seeing turnouts from REALTORS® all around the country. It's the cream of the crop that is willing to come to these, especially legislative meetings. [30:59] Kameron recaps the programs. Within CHIPs, think down payment assistance, closing cost assistance, tax incentives, such as reduced or tax rebates through the mortgage credit certificate, interest rate buy-downs, shared equity programs, funding for new builds, and ADUs. [31:17] There are service-based benefits for first responders, educators, veterans, public service workers, and medical professionals. These can touch every single level of your community. [31:27] If you're in an area like Scranton, Pennsylvania, and you need more doctors. The city can create a municipal program where they'll give doctors $200,000, $400,000 for coming to the area. [31:41] You need more firefighters? Create a grant program for firefighters to buy in these communities. You can shape your community as a REALTOR® and make it something special. [31:56] Within the REALTOR® Association Policy Committee, your local committees, you have those options as well, where you can find other like-minded agents that you can work with, so you don't have to do it alone. [32:10] When Monica invites people to be on the podcast, she's not always sure what they're going to bring. This is another podcast episode that has turned into something bigger than Monica anticipated. [32:24] I love what you brought, Kameron! Pair this episode up with Skylar's, and you're going to get an amazing bucketful of opportunity, just a plethora of ideas. So, what is your final tip to share with agents who might want to start improving their business opportunities? [32:46] "Action steps. Number one, start doing a weekly seminar. Treat it like an open house. Get in the business of being consistent, though, because you can't depend on other sources marketing it for you. You will get referrals and word of mouth if you treat it as a knowledge share." [33:06] "So we had over time from 2015, 2016 to 2019, 2020, we had the amount of referrals that we started to get in those, from friends or people saying, hey, you gotta come to Kam's or Lance's, or whoever was doing the seminar, you gotta come to it." [33:24] "And it was amazing. Be consistent so that people know, on Wednesday nights, to come to the seminar. And then from there, pick something that I call the honey, that brings in the bees." [33:39] "So that is a $15,000 grant. That is one program. That's the flagship thing that you're talking about, the idea that gets them excited, right?" [33:49] "And you do need that to draw people in because just a first-time homebuyer seminar, that's a little flat to be honest, but $20,000 local grants for housing, that is going to move the needle and get people excited." [34:02] "So post it on Eventbrite, on your Facebook, on your Instagram, and be consistent. That's two things. Consistent seminar, one hour, refine it. You can reach out to me on social media at Kameron Kang, or Kam Kang on Instagram." [34:17] "And then Homebuyerwallet.com as well, if you want to check that out. But Kameron Kang, you can reach out to me. I'll respond. I'll give you my homebuyer seminar slides." [34:32] "I'm not afraid of sharing this information and getting you set up to host great seminars that provide a ton of value. Start, be consistent, and then find some honey to draw in the bees." [34:47] Monica adds, What's the need in your area, and what is satisfying it? Kameron, thank you so much. We're gonna put your contact information in the show notes so they can find it there. And I just appreciate you giving us your time and long-earned wisdom. Thank you so much! [35:07] I'm just beyond words here with what Kameron and Skylar have brought. These are programs that are out there and available. And I think this is gonna help turn the tide a little bit for a lot of people. [35:17] I hope you all will add this to your business. This is a great way to help home buyers find financing for their home purchase. And that helps everyone. Just like you said, the community helping people get into housing helps everyone. [35:29] So go back, listen to the other episode with Skylar, as well. And to my listeners, thank you for taking the time to come and learn more about your industry and the tools that are out there to help you help people. [35:40] There are also so many great classes at Learning. A realtor can help you work with buyers, and understand the financial side as well, so that when you talk to lenders, you have more information and you are more educated in those conversations, too. [35:54] So, check it out. Some great offerings there to help you in this challenging market. Thanks again, Kameron. And I'm Monica Neubauer for the Center for REALTOR® Development with these great new tools. Go out there and sell some more houses! Tweetables: "To be able to say I have a decade of experience cracks me up a little bit because I think that's always the hurdle that many people have to pass. It's great to have that experience set and to have been working in this industry in so many different ways." — Kameron Kang "Seminars are one of the first places that you can go to start educating and sharing knowledge in communities, and get people inspired and get them believing again that homeownership is in their futures." — Kameron Kang "Imagine again, … when you're sitting across from buyers, and they say, 'So, why are you worth this commission or this fee?' and you say, 'Oh. Well, have you been to a recent community meeting? No? I have and I advocated for this $20K of funding that you are going to use to buy your house.'" — Kameron Kang "People find houses online. People bring me houses all the time. You can go to an open house. But how do you transform your value proposition? You advocate for your community and you shape programs that fit that community." — Kameron Kang "When you talk about affordability, it's not just what the house sells for; it's about how the financing is structured. And that's one of the big areas where you spread out those costs over that period. You can recharge a whole market segment." — Kameron Kang "Within CHIPs, think down payment assistance, closing cost assistance, tax incentives, so reduced or tax rebates through the mortgage credit certificate, interest rate buy downs, shared equity programs, funding for new builds, and ADUs." — Kameron Kang "If you're in an area and you need more doctors, the city can create a municipal grant where they'll give doctors $200,000, $400,000 for coming to the area. You need more firefighters? Create a program, a grant for firefighters to buy in these communities." — Kameron Kang Guest Links: Kameron Kang, Community and Housing Advocate KameronKang.com @KameronKang on Instagram Homebuyerwallet.com Additional Links: Crdpodcast@nar.realtor Crdpodcast.REALTOR Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education Training4RE.com — List of Classroom Courses from NAR and its affiliates CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered Host Information: Monica Neubauer Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® Monica@MonicaNeubauer.com MonicaNeubauer.com FranklinTNBlog.com Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks Guest Bio Kameron Kang is a dedicated community housing advocate and the founder of Homebuyerwallet.com, a platform focused on making homeownership more affordable and increasing the homeownership rate in America. By connecting people with community home investment programs from across the country, Kameron is working to make the dream of homeownership a reality for more Americans. Kameron's career spans from construction sites to boardrooms, giving him a deep and well-rounded understanding of the housing market. He began as a real estate sales agent and broker, building a high-performance sales team in Washington, D.C., that focused on helping first-time homebuyers, particularly those using purchase assistance programs. Over two years, Kam conducted over 500 seminars on the homebuying process, providing valuable insights and guidance. In addition to his work in real estate, Kameron has played a significant role in government relations, working closely with local communities to provide input on development decisions and housing finance options. He also operates a "small but mighty" hospitality company focused on short-term rentals and travel planning. His diverse experience extends to consulting for real estate developers, serving as an expert witness in legal disputes, and participating on multiple real estate boards and advisory committees. These roles have allowed him to see the full picture—from the policies that shape housing to the personal stories of those striving for a home. This unique blend of experiences equips him to create meaningful solutions that directly address the needs of individuals and communities. Kameron attributes much of his career success and progress to the foundation laid during his time serving in the Army and Army National Guard as an infantry and psychological operations officer. He is a graduate of Syracuse University and Valley Forge Military College and was born in Scranton, PA. He currently resides in Washington, D.C. Through his work, Kameron remains committed to providing practical solutions that meet the specific needs of individuals and communities. Whether you're a first-time homebuyer, a local business owner, or a community leader, Kameron's deep expertise offers valuable insights and actionable strategies to help you achieve your goals and build stronger, more connected communities. Instagram.com/kameronkang Kameronkang.com

Welcome to NAR's Center for REALTOR® Development podcast. I'm Monica Neubauer, your host. How many of you would like some more help getting buyers into homes? Um… I think everybody's hand would be raised right now. Even my guest is saying that, and he's going to teach us how to do that! Our guest today, Skyler Lemons, is known as Chicago's Down Payment Grant King. He is one of NAR's 2025 Class of 30 Under 30 award recipients. Skyler is helping people buy real estate who didn't think they could buy real estate or didn't know that they had the money to buy real estate. Welcome Skyler! [1:03] Skyler Lemons is an NAR 2025 30 Under 30 Award recipient. He is helping people buy real estate who didn't think they could buy real estate or didn't know that they had the money to buy real estate. Welcome Skyler! [1:27] Skyler thinks that every agent should know and have in their arsenal what Skyler has discovered in the world of down payment assistance. He's on a mission to empower more agents to do this. [1:53] Skyler is known as Chicago's Down Payment Grant King. He's a real estate broker with Exit Strategy REALTOR®, and he's helping first-time and low-to-moderate-income buyers access home ownership with minimal up-front costs. In 2024, Skyler helped secure over $250K in financial assistance. [2:20] Born and raised in Chicago, with a financial degree from Howard University, Skyler combines data-driven strategy, branding expertise, and a deep knowledge of the city to empower buyers and agents alike. He has 18K Instagram followers and 1,700 leads generated this year. [2:43] Skyler's mission is simple: bridge the home ownership gap through education, strategy, and community impact. [3:17] Skyler was licensed on December 26th, 2020. He was 24 years old. He started to work his sphere of influence. All his friends of his age told him, "Skyler, you know this sounds good, but show me some apartments. I'm ready to rent an apartment." [3:42] Skyler realized that the biggest barrier for himself and a lot of his peers wasn't the job or the credit score; it was the down payment. Most did not have the capital to buy, and it was also the middle of a pandemic. [4:09] Interest rates were low, and banks did not have any incentive to have these types of programs because of low interest rates. Initially, Skyler did not sell a lot of real estate. He did not know how to bridge that gap. [4:23] Once interest rates started to rise, Skyler saw that banks started to come out with different programs. The main problem between the programs and Skyler's community was the information gap. A lot of people don't know that these things exist. [4:44] Skyler shows people where the money is. He explains to people that if they buy a $250K property, they'll need about 6% to close, including down payment and closing costs. He suggests talking to a lender who will give $5K toward a down payment and $7 or $8K toward closing costs. [5:08] He goes out with buyers already figuring out a huge piece of the financial puzzle. [5:13] Skyler believes a lot of agents are afraid of the numbers. He reminds his clients that they need to call the lender, but he helps them paint that picture of what they are going to try to accomplish. That gets them excited. [5:32] Once they have pre-approval and secure the $5K for the down payment, and the $7 to $8K toward the closing cost, it solves a big piece of the puzzle for them. [6:17] The first opportunity fell into Skyler's lap. An agent had connected him to a lender that had this product. At the closing table, he realized that his client was getting a check back. Skyler started talking to different lenders and learning their requirements for credit score and income. [6:59] Skyler talked to clients about which lenders might work best for them in their circumstances and why. Cook County has a $25K grant program, but after running the numbers, sometimes a lender can do better for the client without the Cook County grant. [9:07] Skyler is always painting that picture. If an agent starts painting the picture for people, the agent will get a lot more callbacks because people will feel that the agent can take them to the next step. Skyler is an educator for his clients, right off the bat. [9:44] Skyler is an introvert, so he had to learn how to sell as an introvert. [10:42] Skyler always asks his clients how they found him, and nine times out of 10, it's on Instagram or TikTok. He uses Instagram as his digital business card, and he's always posting. [11:09] Skyler came up with a homebuying guide. On the back of it were over 30 down-payment assistance programs in the state of Illinois. He leveraged that value to get people to download the guide. A hundred people downloaded it. [11:31] Only ten of those people were very serious at that point. That only led to making three deals. Skyler came to learn that he had to nurture clients. [11:42] If you go to Skyler's Instagram and comment the word home on any of his posts, an AI assistant will respond to your comment and DM you with a link to join Skyler's down payment grant newsletter. [12:01] Once you opt into his newsletter, you get an email with Skyler's guide on buying a property with little-to-no money down. From there, you get on a 36-touch email nurture campaign. That keeps a lot of people on his Calendly. People can make appointments with him at any time. [12:24] The email newsletter overcomes clients' fear and objections. For most people, buying a house is new. It's one of the biggest purchases people are going to make in their lives. There are some fears with that. After some emails and the buying guide, people call Skyler ready to buy. [12:53] They become a client when they call Skyler, ready for the first step. That's Skyler's funnel. At the top of the funnel, he provides value by email. At the bottom of every email, there's a call to action to make an appointment. [13:40] Skyler doesn't just say, "Let me help you in real estate." He has a niche. "Let me help you with your down payment." If down payment assistance is not your niche as an agent, Skyler suggests pulling up your MLS sheet and looking at your deals. [14:05] Your deals tell a story. You've built a skillset in one area versus another. Start thinking about what the pain point of your client was when they bought that multi-family, or when looking for that apartment, or buying a luxury home. [14:24] The services you're going to provide in that space may look a little bit different. Maybe you have some concierge services. Maybe you call the moving company and schedule the move. Whatever it is that you offer, speak directly to that pain point and how you solve it. [14:45] On Instagram, you only have five seconds to capture somebody's attention. If you capture that attention, you may have 30 seconds more. Get to the point. They don't care about fluff. Get to the house and tell people how they can get it today if they give you a call. [15:29] In Skyler's market area, a lot of state and government money is available for homebuyers. IHDA has downpayment assistance programs. Chicago is one of the most segregated cities in the U.S. It's easy to map where the low-to-moderate income people are. [16:09] A lot of areas in the South and West corridors in the city are low-to-moderate income areas. Most of Skyler's business is on the South Side. A lot of the properties he showcases on Instagram are on the South Side. He is attracting a buyer who usually qualifies for a program. [16:42] When Skyler doesn't use a state program because of its stipulations, he likes to use Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) lenders. To do more lending in low-to-moderate income areas, they have in-house down payment assistance programs without as many stipulations. [17:19] The closing costs go to the client at the time of close. If rates drop and they want to refinance, they can do so. [18:02] Skyler also works with the VA program, but often the CRA program works better for his clients. [19:26] Skyler says there are about five ways to get real estate clients: content marketing, referrals, paid ads, affiliates, and face-to-face events. Look up areas where there are more renters than buyers. Run an every-door direct mail campaign. [20:36] A lot of Skyler's programs specify that a buyer is qualified for a program based on the address being in the low-to-moderate income area. That's how it's done in Chicago. In other markets that may not be as segregated, they may have different qualification requirements. [20:58] If you are in a market similar to Chicago, you probably could go after renters with direct mail or local events. [21:12] Monica suggests becoming known for a weekly meeting at the library, offering education. [21:39] In Chicago, there are a lot of triplexes and quadplexes. Skyler tells clients that in those cases, down payment assistance doesn't apply. [21:53] For three- and four-unit properties, lenders require the buyer to have either a three-month or a six-month reserve in the bank account at the time of close. The reserve may be a 401(k) or a savings account. [22:35] If you don't have the reserve money, you may hone in on a two-unit because you can still access the down payment assistance programs, and there is no reserve requirement. [23:13] If you buy a two-unit, most of the time, you have to live in one of the units for a year. Then you can move out and rent both units and maybe have a small cash flow. [24:13] Skyler's Mom is Marki Lemons Ryhal, a real estate keynote speaker and the host of the Drive with NAR podcast. Coming into the business, Skyler says there are big shoes to fill. [24:26] Marki is not actively practicing now; she is on the education side. When she was in the field, she used to sell 70 to 80 houses a year. Starting in the business, Skyler learned how many moving pieces there are in real estate. His mother did it all without nearly as much technology. [25:40] Skyler asks, Who do you know, selling 70 to 80 houses a year as a solo agent? That's who she is. Every idea Skyler comes up with, he shares with his mother, and she takes it and amplifies it for him. They have a really good working relationship. [26:23] Monica is excited for Skyler. She knows his Mom pretty well. Seeing Skyler find his niche and grow his business is exciting, helping so many people find a home. Monica believes in what Skyler is doing, and she loves that he shared it on the Center for REALTOR® Development. [27:03] Skyler's final words of advice: In this business, it's easy to think about what you don't know and what you don't have, and get the shiny object syndrome. We have all the tools that we need already to do everything. [27:23] If there's something you feel like you don't know, it's already on the internet. Somebody has already figured it out. Put some time into some deep learning, be consistent with it, and I think that you'll be surprised. [27:34] Skyler is automating his business systems with AI. He has had to go through the flow and learn things to get to this point. When you feel like you're not doing enough, take the moment to realize that we already have everything that we need. Just spend $20 a month on ChatGPT. [28:02] Get on ChatGPT and figure out how to get through what it is that you need to get through to generate more business. [28:09] Monica says, Treat it like a business. Get some education. [28:29] Tyler suggests getting to know loan officers can be a waste of time. You won't do business with a lot of them. Save the lunch for when you have a loan officer selected, and work out with them how to maximize your business. [28:59] Figure out some questions to ask. A lot of people have credit challenges. Skyler points people to agencies that offer free credit counseling. He's putting together a guide of free resources for home buyers. [29:21] Start asking your loan officers what they have available, and what the income requirements, credit requirements, and capital requirements are, if there are any. Are they stipulated to buy in a particular area? You can do that via phone call and email. [29:43] Put that information in a database so when you're talking to a client, you have all this information pulled up, and you'll see this client is a good fit for this loan officer. That will save you and the loan officer a lot of time. Loan officers tell Skyler he sends so many qualified people. [30:00] When somebody tells Skyler they have a credit challenge, he's already deferring them to something else because they're not ready to talk to the loan officer. He directs them to a credit counselor for free through a housing agency. [20:28] Once you start closing deals, then have lunch with a loan officer who works with you, to see how you can multiply. [30:35] Monica says, I love all your system suggestions. So many great takeaways! Thank you so much, Skyler Lemons, for sharing your wisdom with us today! [30:46] As I hope now, you all start learning about what's happening in your area and what grants are available that you're going to plug this in. This is a great way to help homebuyers find financing. Go, find the program, then find the buyers. That's going to help everyone. [31:05] In our other episode on grants, I'm interviewing Cameron Kang, from D.C., and he's going to talk about what he's doing over in his area, because everywhere has different programs. [31:18] We're so glad you joined Skyler and me today to learn about this. I'm Monica Neubauer for the Center for REALTOR® Development, and I hope you go out there and sell some houses! Thank you very much! Tweetables: "What I've discovered in the world of down payment assistance, I think that every agent should know and have in their arsenal. I'm on a mission to empower more agents to do this." — Skyler Lemons "If you start painting the picture for people, you'll get a lot more callbacks because people will feel like, OK, he showed me how to do that, but then I need to figure out how to do this. And they'll just naturally feel like you're the best person to take them to the next step." — Skyler Lemons "I am an introvert, so I had to learn how to sell as an introvert." — Skyler Lemons "When I don't use a state program because of its stipulations, I like to use Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) lenders. To do more lending in low-to-moderate income areas, they have in-house down payment assistance programs without as many stipulations." — Skyler Lemons "If there's something you feel like you don't know, it's already on the internet. Somebody has already figured it out. Put some time into some deep learning, be consistent with it, and I think that you'll be surprised." — Skyler Lemons "Save the lunches for when you have that loan officer selected, and you've figured it out, so that you can go to lunch and talk about how you are going to maximize it. That's what you should spend your lunch time doing." — Skyler Lemons Guest Links: Skyler Lemons, Associate Broker at Exit Strategy Realty Additional Links: Crdpodcast@nar.realtor Crdpodcast.REALTOR Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education Training4RE.com — List of Classroom Courses from NAR and its affiliates CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered Host Information: Monica Neubauer Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® Monica@MonicaNeubauer.com MonicaNeubauer.com FranklinTNBlog.com Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks Guest Bio Skyler Lemons My goal as a REALTOR® directly aligns with Exit Strategy Realty's mission to provide strategic counsel, creative solutions, ethical advice, and dynamic services while empowering lives through real estate. I'm passionate about securing the best deals for home buyers and sellers in the Chicagoland area. I create authentic long-term relationships while assisting clients with purchasing a dream home or selling property. Born and raised in Chicago as a sixth-generation entrepreneur, I have developed a wealth of knowledge on our City's history as well as its future plans. My extensive knowledge of the Chicagoland real estate market spans across all of our 77 communities. As a second-generation REALTOR®, I have cultivated a network of REALTOR® over the past 20 years to help me identify properties for buyers and find new owners for sellers. Equipped with best practices gained from my successful experience as a consultant to Fortune 500 Companies and a finance degree from Howard University, I combine predictive analytics and proven methods to structure winning offers while selling homes quickly. Through exceptional communication and transparency, clients trust that I will find the perfect opportunity at the right price. When people choose me to assist with this important and sometimes stressful aspect of their lives, they receive my undivided attention.

Welcome to the Center for REALTOR® Development podcast. I'm Monica Neubauer, your host. Everyone's favorite topic these days is AI. In our last episode, Matthew Rathbun and Craig Grant saved you lots of time with their tips for improved productivity and agent and customer experience. Today, they're going to help you again and show you how they make AI work for them in practical ways. Practical ideas are my favorite takeaways! We're going to give you a few more apps. We're still going to stick with the basics of ChatGPT and Google Gemini, but we're going to get into a few more apps that you may want to invest in. Craig Grant is the CEO of RETI.us, the real estate industry's online home for technology education. He's been a national technology speaker, educating us through many tech changes. He's a tremendous mentor for speakers and educators. This passion has led him to offer a Train the Trainer program and co-found the BEATS Alliance, promoting education for both the educator and education directors at associations. Matthew Rathbun is the Broker and Executive VP of a Northern Virginia Coldwell Banker office. He's the President of the Real Estate Business Institute and an international speaker in the real estate industry. He helps tech make sense, and he has a balance in his communication style of being straightforward, telling it like it is, and also, really encouraging to help us to actually do it. We are releasing this interview in two episodes. This is Part 2. Each one of these episodes stands alone, but we encourage you to start with Episode 1 or go back to it for some more context. Important: Be mindful of the limitations and risks of using generative artificial intelligence and protect personal, financial and confidential information from being shared with an AI platform. Keep in mind that content produced by generative AI tools is not always correct. Avoid using AI for legal advice and engaging in the unauthorized practice of law; always seek appropriate advice from actual professionals. Do not use AI to create content you wish to copyright, as AI-generated works are not protectable under U.S. copyright law. [1:27] Craig Grant is a tremendous mentor for speakers and educators. This passion has led him to offer a Train the Trainer program and co-found the BEATS Alliance, promoting education for both the educator and education directors at associations. Welcome back, Craig! [2:02] Matthew Rathbun helps tech make sense, and he has a balance in his communication style of being straightforward, telling it like it is, and also, really encouraging to help us to actually do it. Welcome back, Matthew! [2:21] Matthew recaps the first episode. It covered creating GPTs, being an AI-forward leader, and being an example to your agents. Associations can also help themselves by creating GPTs of these tools. Think about things differently, do your job better, and help the agents do theirs better. [3:06] Craig tries to guide most people in the industry either to ChatGPT or Google Gemini. All AI platforms have similar capabilities, but Craig says to succeed in real estate, leverage one of the two main platforms. Matthew prefers ChatGPT while Craig uses Gemini more. [3:41] Craig says that ChatGPT focuses on third-party tools and integration. Google isn't trying to do any integration. It's about making you more effective inside Google. Craig runs his business through Google with Gmail, Google Docs, Drive, and Calendar through Google. [4:02] Gemini makes Craig so much faster and more effective with the tools he's already using to run his business. He uses ChatGPT for fun things, but if it's business-related, he uses Gemini, and it creates emails and documents the way he wants them, in his brand voice. [4:22] Craig uses Google to run his business, so he focuses on Gemini. He believes that whichever you end up using, whether it's Gemini or ChatGPT, the two main ones, Craig believes the possibilities of what you can do with them are endless. You can create anything you want. [4:36] Monica has learned so far that although she mostly uses ChatGPT, she can put more Gemini into her regular Google Suite use. [5:00] Monica is a ChatGPT user. She has just hired a virtual assistant, and they're still working out how they will work together. She wants her VA to have a quality AI program to build something custom with Monica. She wants to keep it separate from her ChatGPT. [5:45] Craig suggests Monica could create a custom GPT with a different profile from her GPT as a template to share with her VA. [6:43] Matthew speaks of having teams in ChatGPT or Gemini. Craig says it costs $5.00 more a month for the leader. [7:17] Craig offers an example. You use ChatGPT to help you respond to a customer's upset email on Yahoo. You copy the message, put it in ChatGPT, write a prompt to have ChatGPT defuse the situation, copy the response, and paste it into Yahoo to send. You have wasted time. [7:57] With Google Gemini, it's already in your inbox, reading the emails. The second you click on an email, Gemini has read it and has a prepared response ready for you. It will ask if you want to use it or write your own response. [8:11] Craig says he can respond to that testy email from the customer in under 10 seconds if he wanted to, using Gemini, without having to go back and forth. From a productivity side, that's why Craig uses Gemini the way he uses it. [8:35] Next, Craig talks about Canva Pro, the paid version of Canva. Craig says it has improved by leaps and bounds over the last few years. It probably includes more AI than any other tool on the market. It includes Branda for creating your logo and brand, colors, and brand voice. [9:07] That way, you can redesign any template in the library in seconds. There are many tools that Canva keeps adding that will do the design work for you. [9:27] Canva has teams. Monica added her VA as a team member. [9:37] Craig talks about Magic Media for creating AI imagery, animations, or videos within Canva. Using Canva Magic Resize, if you designed something for Facebook, with one click, you can resize it for TikTok or any other site. [9:55] Monica asks for tips to Resize, to get better results. [10:13] In Magic Resize, the big thing is that to look its best, the size you start with and the size you end with should be a similar shape and orientation. If you pick something of a very different size, you can expect to have to go into it to tweak it to look good. [10:45] Also, under Magic Resize, there is the ability to translate to different languages, so you could have a campaign in English, and with one click, you could have it in Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, or other language you want. [11:04] Another tool Craig loves is Bulk Create. It's not AI. It allows you to merge information into a Canva design. You can mock up a design, like Reasons to Move to Your Town, ask ChatGPT or Gemini for 100 reasons to move there, and then merge them for 100 designs done in seconds. [11:35] Between the Bulk Create tool and Magic Resize, you could knock out a year's worth of content, multi-media, in multiple languages, in minutes. You always want to make sure the content is accurate before you publish it! Monica says, Always proofread before publishing. [12:30] Craig repeats something he said in the first episode. Always treat everything AI creates as a first draft. It does 90% of the work; you have to do the last 10%. Proofread it, make sure it's accurate, that the sources are right and not vested, and that it doesn't violate the Code of Ethics. [12:52] You've got to do the last 10% every time you create something with AI. [12:58] Matthew loves the Canva Layout tool. Docs to Deck is one of his favorites. Choose a Doc, hit the forward slash, and it brings up an AI dialogue box. Tell it about the presentation you want, like for first-time homebuyers moving into Richmond, VA. It will create the outline. [13:23] The next step is to ask it to create a presentation deck for you. You can resize the deck into a pamphlet, brochure, or guide. Or go into the AI and ask it to write a blog post on something like keeping house plants alive. It will give you templates and content based on your brand. [14:01] Matthew suggests concepts for creating content in minutes. Not everyone in your newsletter system is looking to buy or sell soon. They want to know how to make their lives better. AI does a good job of building that content, so you can just tweak it and post. [14:17] Monica asks about setting up page breaks in a Canva document. Monica's advice to brokers and agents: If you're stuck on something in Canva, go find a video to help you learn it. Don't let one small problem derail you. [15:21] Craig talks about GrammarlyGO, the paid version of Grammarly. Besides correction, it now does AI content creation, as well. GrammarlyGO learns your brand voice so it crafts content that sounds like you. [16:54] Discussion on AI avatars. Barbie didn't go well for Monica, and Ken didn't work for Craig. He uses a tool called HeyGen that does more than avatars. Upload pictures of yourself, record some speech, then enter text, and it creates a video of your avatar speaking in your voice. [18:47] HeyGen has an avatar spokesmodel library. Pick an avatar of the gender, nationality, and language you want and create content. HeyGen can also convert your video from English into other languages, using your face and voice. It syncs your mouth to the chosen language. [19:30] HeyGen can merge from a list into your video, so you can greet prospects by name. It can create a podcast from your content or a video about a website page. Craig says they keep adding new features to the tool. It has a video editor built in and a template library. [20:18] Matthew says you can use an avatar of a client for a testimonial about yourself. Craig notes the interactive avatar. [20:55] Matthew and his wife are going to France. Using HeyGen, Matthew made several French videos that he can play on his phone in emergencies. [22:07] Craig says he did an event in Milan, and AI helped him plan the entire trip. He used HayGen to create promotional videos of himself speaking Italian, using the translation feature. [22:45] Craig explains that an AI assistant is almost like a clone of yourself to help you do your job. It can check your email inbox, manage your calendar, do outbound communications, and all sorts of other things. In the last year, vendors have been popping up selling AI VA packages. [23:32] Craig or Matthew, with their knowledge, could create their own AI VA, but the average real estate agent is probably unable to do that without help. They can buy one from Productive.ai, Oppy AI, Whisper AI, or others. You sign up and get an assistant to help you do your job better. [24:23] Craig is a huge believer that any real estate professional not using AI is going to get run over by one who is. An agent leveraging AI will be better at customer service, communication, and marketing, and will outpace a real estate professional who's not using it. [24:44] Matthew says for $20.00 a month, you can have an army of experts in your pocket. There are a lot of tools, but if you just start with Google Gemini and use it appropriately, you'll outpace any other agent who isn't using AI. [25:21] Craig says when agents ask him which of the many tools he shows them do they need to buy, he tells them their first decision is to pick between ChatGPT or Google Gemini. Buy one of those two. Then get Canva Pro. The combination of one of those and Canva Pro is incredible. [26:03] Once you have AI and Canva Pro, if you want to add video, get HeyGen or Synthesia. [26:53] How does AI work with MLS data? Matthew says the only problem he's had with adding content to AI is the size limitation. A GPT can only include 20 documents. You can combine multiple documents into a PDF and upload it. Canva can handle files of 100 MB or less. [28:26] A spreadsheet with a lot of macros and formulas can cause glitchiness. For everyday stuff, it's usually OK. Don't overwhelm it. [28:39] Matthew has a prompt that takes a listing and makes a coloring book from all the pictures of the house for kids to pick up when they're in the house. [29:03] Craig says when you do any kind of prompt work in AI, control the narrative. It can do online research and pull from sources you don't control. So, give it the data you want it to use, and you know you will get accurate information back, versus online research. [29:54] Craig shares an example. During an event in Montana, AI gave a wildly inaccurate estimate of rental cost for a property in the area until he fed the AI an appropriate data set, and it gave a realistic response for what the rent for the property should be. Control the data. [30:47] Matthew adds that he has a prompt he uses for CMAs and a prompt to do listing descriptions. In the prompt, he gives the GPT data to work with and tells it that he wants it to emulate an expert marketing content writer. [31:35] Craig mentions tools your MLS can purchase and integrate within your MLS system. Restb.ai uses computer vision to take your uploaded photos, identify what part of the property it is, including flooring and appliances, and write a listing from it. The agent has to check the details. [32:49] Matthew and Craig agree that the MLS systems need to be doing these types of things to remain relevant. [33:25] Craig mentions Property Shield. It scans the internet looking for inconsistencies in property listings. If something is listed in MLS as a sale and on Facebook Marketplace as a rental, Property Shield notifies the agent that the property may be involved in a scam. [34:36] Listing scams are a huge scourge. The average agent doesn't know about a scam until it's already a big problem. Property Shield in your MLS can alert agents to scams before they cause problems. [34:35] Craig, thank you for bringing us these specific additions. Matthew, I think you have a final word for us, and remind people about the REBI AI class. [35:01] Matthew mentions Academy.openai.com. It's a fantastic free tool from OpenAI designed for you. They have a section for beginners, advanced coders, senior citizens, everyday use, and more. It's a good learning platform. AI tools will help you with personal branding and supporting your agents. [35:38] Matthew stresses the importance of investing in your education and development. He says his and Craig's podcasts are designed to trigger thoughts and give you a ton of awesome stuff. Learn to use them, one by one. Keep a list. They build on each other. [35:53] The REBI has an eight-hour AI certificate program in three modules. Associations can hire it for three half-days or one day. Craig, Matthew, and Marki Lemons Ryhal are all speakers. It takes you from original concept and history to risk management, productivity, marketing, and more. [36:27] AI is very important for you to understand and master, not only for your benefit but to do it safely. Education and exploration are the only ways you're going to learn to do those things well. [36:37] Craig loves that the REBI AI certification course gives Matthew, Craig, and Marki enough time to explore. Instead of just lecturing, they can demo and show you how to do things and leverage these tools. [37:01] Thank you so very much to Matthew Rathbun and Craig Grant for coming to share your expansive knowledge. For our listeners, you can see we have just touched the tip of the iceberg. Don't forget to go back to the prior episode to hear us talk about some more uses specifically for brokers. [37:22] Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Monica Neubauer for NAR's Center for REALTOR® Development podcast. Level up your skills! Go sell some more houses! Tweetables: "Because I use Google to run my business, I focus more on Gemini. But whichever one you end up using, whether it's Gemini or ChatGPT, the two main ones, to me, the possibilities of what you can do with them are endless." — Craig Grant "Not everybody in your newsletter system is looking to buy or sell in the next five to seven years, nonetheless right now. They want to know how to make their lives better. And AI does a good job of building that content so you can just tweak it and post." — Matthew Rathbun "I've consulted with a few different associations where they're like 'We can never get our president to come in to the board to do content. We can't get our AE on camera. Well, this is the easiest solution for that, right? Get your broker on camera, get yourself on camera, just create an avatar." — Craig Grant "I don't think AI is going to wipe out a real estate professional, but I do think any real estate professional not using it is going to get run over by one who is." — Craig Grant "Listing scams are a huge scourge. The average agent doesn't know about it until it's way too late, until it's already out of control." — Craig Grant "It's important that you invest in your own education and development. Our podcasts are designed to trigger thoughts. Craig will give you a ton of awesome stuff. Pick one and work on it until you feel you've got it, and go to the next one. Keep an ongoing list." — Matthew Rathbun Guest Links: Matthew Rathbun, President of the Real Estate Business Institute Craig Grant, CEO of RETI.us NAR Resource Links Ep. 106: "AI Trends in Real Estate with Dan Weisman: Part 1" Ep. 107: "AI Trends in Real Estate with Dan Weisman: Part 2" REBI AI Certificate Additional Links: Crdpodcast@nar.realtor Crdpodcast.REALTOR Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education Training4RE.com — List of Classroom Courses from NAR and its affiliates CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered Host Information: Monica Neubauer Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® Monica@MonicaNeubauer.com MonicaNeubauer.com FranklinTNBlog.com Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks Guest Bios Craig Grant is the CEO of RETI.us, the real estate industry's online home for technology education. He's been a national technology speaker, educating us through many tech changes. He's a tremendous mentor for speakers and educators, and I have been the beneficiary of his wisdom over the years. This passion has led him to offer a Train the Trainer program and co-found the BEATS Alliance, promoting education for both the educator and education directors at associations. Matthew Rathbun is the Broker and Executive VP of a Northern Virginia Coldwell Banker office. He's the President of the Real Estate Business Institute and an international speaker in the real estate industry. He helps tech make sense, and he has a balance in his communication style of being straightforward, telling it like it is, and also, really encouraging REALTORS® to actually do it.

Welcome to the Center for REALTOR® Development podcast from the National Association of REALTORS®. I'm Monica Neubauer, your host. Before we start today, I have a favor to ask. We so appreciate you, our faithful listeners, and we are so glad that you're coming and learning with all of our amazing guests. However, when I travel, I find lots of folks who could benefit from what we are sharing here for free every month. So, please share this podcast with friends and other agents in your brokerage firm. Let's help everybody be more educated. Thanks for doing that! Today is everyone's favorite topic; it's AI. We had a great conversation recently with Dan Weisman, you can go back and listen to, as well. He's NAR staff. My guests today both make AI work for them in practical ways, every day. I love practical application. You all have heard me talk about it; just good tools to help me be more efficient. Sometimes I like these new tools because they help me stop putting off things that I put off because they felt too big, and now I have this friend who will help me do it. My guests will give us some tips on some of the software. I now tackle some of these things with my GPT friend. Matthew Rathbun is the Broker and Executive VP of a Northern Virginia Coldwell Banker office. He's the President of the Real Estate Business Institute and an international speaker in the real estate industry. He helps tech make sense, and he has a balance in his communication style of being straightforward, telling it like it is, and also, really encouraging to help us to actually do it. Craig Grant is the CEO of RETI.us, the real estate industry's online home for technology education. He's been a national technology speaker, educating us through many tech changes. He's a tremendous mentor for speakers and educators. This passion has led him to offer a Train the Trainer program and co-found the BEATS Alliance, promoting education for both the educator and education directors at associations. We are releasing this interview in two episodes. This is Part 1. Important: Be mindful of the limitations and risks of using generative artificial intelligence and protect personal, financial and confidential information from being shared with an AI platform. Keep in mind that content produced by generative AI tools is not always correct. Avoid using AI for legal advice and engaging in the unauthorized practice of law; always seek appropriate advice from actual professionals. Do not use AI to create content you wish to copyright, as AI-generated works are not protectable under U.S. copyright law. [2:30] Matthew Rathbun helps tech make sense, and he has a balance in his communication style of being straightforward, telling it like it is, and also, really encouraging to help us do it. Welcome, Matthew! Matthew says it's great to be part of this episode. [3:04] Craig Grant's passion has led him to offer a Train the Trainer program and co-found the BEATS Alliance, promoting education for both the educator and education directors at associations. Welcome, Craig! Craig thanks Monica for having him on this episode. [3:20] We're going to share some specific wisdom for the brokers in our first episode. While everyone's going to benefit from this conversation, Matthew's going to share some specifics because he's a broker. [3:33] We're going to have Craig in the second episode be the lead for some more tools for everyone. Both episodes are going to be great for everyone. [3:50] Craig shares the tech we will be discussing: ChatGPT, Google Gemini, Microsoft Copilot, Perplexity, Claude, DeepSeek, and others. Craig recommends using the big platforms, Google Gemini, Microsoft Copilot, and OpenAI ChatGPT, versus others that don't have the legal and financial standing. [4:41] Craig says the two main ones to use are ChatGPT and Google Gemini. Other options might do things just as well, but Craig falls back on the legal protection side. Craig notes that there is a huge difference between the free versions and the paid models. [5:17] Matthew agrees with Craig on limiting the tools. He sticks primarily to ChatGPT because when doing demos for agents or creating content, doing it on various platforms can be confusing and overwhelming. [5:36] Matthew explains that each of the platforms Craig mentioned may do a certain type of task. Claude may be better for legal experts, programmers, and coders by about 10%. For Matthew, as a broker, it's not worth an extra 10% benefit to switch platforms, although he may want to use those tools. [6:04] Matthew settled on ChatGPT largely because they've got more finances for the legal fight that will inevitably come down the pike. They are also trying a little harder to put up relatively good safeguards. [6:17] Matthew says, as a broker, if I'm deploying a product, I want to make sure that it isn't going to be harmful. ChatGPT has put up guardrails against adult content, violence, and duplicating material from a living author, celebrity, or artist, so Matthew feels better deploying it in his brokerage. [6:46] Matthew used it before coming to this podcast recording. He had a 90-minute segment with his agents on using AI for marketing. [7:11] Matthew says we have to face the realities, or we can't get where we need to go. If you're a broker, you have an obligation to lead. Leaders create a practice that is to be emulated. AI is world-changing already. It has advanced us in so many areas. [7:32] Not utilizing AI as a broker means that you are being outpaced by every broker who is, but you're also not demonstrating the value to your agents when they could not be more confused, frustrated, and overwhelmed. [7:45] AI, although it has a learning curve, brings clarity and specificity to tasks. Matthew believes that agents with AI will significantly outpace agents without it. As a leader, you need to create tools and resources to help your agents be better at their jobs and reduce some of the anxiety out there. [8:15] Craig says we're about to enter a new generation, not based on age but AI competency; just agents and brokers who are way more efficient and better at doing their jobs because they're leveraging AI, versus the other ones who are going to get left in the dust because they're not using this technology. [8:35] Matthew's advice for brokers is to bring your creativity and your humanity. Show agents what could occur in the betterment of their careers if they use these tools. Then use your creativity to create tools. Matthew believes AIs enhance the work. [9:20] Matthew has about 300 agents. For years, he has had agents who need an assistant but are not successful enough to afford one. Now they have one in their pocket with a PhD-level brain about marketing, productivity, our contract, and the law. It still takes us to give that information a brand voice. [9:50] For Matthew, being an AI-forward leader means creating content to show his agents what they can do with it. Within a month of ChatGPT rolling out, Matthew was doing classes on it. Agents started by uploading a PDF of their contract into it and asking it questions for clarity on things they didn't know. [10:48] The next thing they did was create custom GPTs. There are libraries of GPTs available, but it's easy to create your own. [11:19] Matthew has GPT tutorials just for brokers. He recommends that association leaders also create them for their members. [11:35] Click on your ChatGPT profile and go to Custom GPTs. The AI tool has the world's knowledge that's publicly available. It understands marketing concepts and the law. There may be things that you create in your company that you want to be in a place where your agents can grab them. [12:09] Matthew uploaded transcripts of his contract training videos into the GPT. That's content that the world doesn't have. It influences how the GPT answers agent contract questions. [12:35] The next step Matthew took was to upload all of his teaching about marketing and his favorite literature about marketing, like Storybrand, by Donald Miller, into the GPT. [12:44] Monica asks Matthew to pause and go back to the contracts. She asks Matthew's thoughts about using General ChatGPT to get tips to solve issues. Matthew speaks of the importance of having an AI use policy for the brokerage. There are many templates out there. [14:00] You can ask ChatGPT for an AI use policy for a real estate brokerage. Matthew wrote his brokerage policy and then realized how much time he could have saved by having ChatGPT do it. He put a sticky note on his PC asking, "How can AI help me do this?" [14:42] For 30 days, every time Matthew sat at the computer, he looked at the sticky note and asked how AI could help him do the job of being a broker, or an educator, or an agent, better. It was amazing what he started applying it to that he had never conceptualized before. [14:56] Matthew encourages agents to use General ChatGPT while reminding them of the company policy, "You are still liable for whatever you do, based on the advice of AI. You can never go back and say AI told you to do these three steps or interpret this paragraph." [15:12] Matthew has a great prompt to help you do a CNA in minutes. He still tells the agents, "You still are responsible for knowing how to do a proper CNA. If you don't know the basics, you don't know if the AI is giving you bad data or not." [15:29] It's the same thing with your contracts. Checking with General ChatGPT helps enhance and trigger things in our brains. When it's late at night, your brain is fried, and you have to negotiate terms, AI helps fill in the stuff you may have forgotten. [15:46] Craig says that AI can regularly give you completely false or misleading information. Always check the sources to see that they are reliable. Go through everything to make sure it's accurate. There should never be any copy and paste in AI. Review it. AI does 90% of the work. You do the last 10%. [16:23] Treat everything like a first draft and review every little detail of it before you publish it to the world, because you are 100% responsible for what you publish. If you publish something inaccurate, misleading, or violating the Code of Ethics, whatever it may be, that's you on the line. [16:37] Matthew stresses that AI is an assistant, not a licensee. AI can help with the draft. Everything is a draft that Matthew needs to edit and make his own. AI is just for idea-sharing and problem-solving. [17:03] Matthew then created a GPT for marketing. He took the books he's written, the onboarding and training materials, into a GPT. Matthew told it to create content in the StoryBrand framework for marketing and create scripts using this six-step process. [17:33] Matthew did the work and shared the GPT link with the agents. Now they have content that Matthew, the broker, feels is trustworthy. That's a marketing assistant. When agents ask it to create a blog post, it creates content and walks the agent through the steps to post it. [18:10] Matthew isn't an AI-first executive. He doesn't believe in replacing humans with AI. However, his marketing team now has far more time to create meaningful content rather than trying to teach agents how to write a script. The AI will do that for them if we teach the agent to use it. It frees up time. [18:38] A lot of agents are putting children to bed, putting laundry away, and finally sitting down to focus on their business at 11:00 at night. They can use the marketing GPT to play with their ideas. The GPT supplements Matthew as a broker. He cannot be with them at 11:00 p.m. [19:21] Matthew returns to the topic of having AI create an AI use policy or edit one you create. Matthew had ChatGPT review the AI use policy he wrote, and it came up with two additional points. That led him to input the full company policy into AI and check it for compliance with modern HR issues. [19:48] It gave him great language, although he toned it down to be less formal. It gave Matthew what he needed to update his policy, and he is confident that he has the tightest, best policy he could have right now. He didn't pay anyone to do that. It was 20 minutes' worth of work. Matthew edited it. [20:31] Craig notes that a lot of policy manuals were written years ago. They don't involve some modern concerns, such as cybersecurity, data retention, AI, and things that have popped up over the last couple of years. Most brokerages and associations haven't thought to update their company policy manuals. [20:53] Craig says that how Matthew updated his policy manual was brilliant. He uploaded three contemporary example manuals and asked what was missing from his manual. When you create a new manual, have everyone go back and re-sign it. [21:14] Most of the things that apply to brokerage manuals apply to association manuals. [21:24] Craig mentions onboarding processes. Associations have a lot of problems when they lose a staff member. There are months of training and getting that new person up to speed. This is an area to leverage AI. AI can help with onboarding processes and training manuals. [21:54] Matthew's big Aha moment was in asking what AI can do to help me do this better. That creates creativity. How far can he push it? Matthew uses the Todoist platform to track his daily activities. He realized recently that he wanted a 90-day follow-up program for the phase after an agent joins. [22:16] He wanted to-do items paced throughout the 90 days; a reminder to send a handwritten note; a reminder to call them? He wanted the to-dos to come to him on certain days throughout the 90 days. He took his manual to-do lists and asked ChatGPT to create a 90-day template in Todoist, which it did. [22:42] Matthew's last custom GPT is recruiting. Recruiting is up to his leadership team. Matthew took all of his recruiting resources and uploaded them to a custom GPT with job specifications. He asked for a recruiting platform, a follow-up plan, talking points, and what time to post them to get in front of agents. [24:13] What his GPT gave him reinforced what he already knew, which gave him confidence to execute his recruiting plan. It also made him think about things he couldn't create himself, such as having Suno create a rap song about his company and adding it to a video created in his backyard. It got attention. [24:42] Canva AI is mindblowing. Matthew can tie in his recruiting campaign and his brand kit and create compelling and beautiful content in minutes that he could not have created before. He doesn't hire a recruiting firm or a marketing firm to do it. He just needs the imagination to get it done. [25:13] Matthew says that as soon as NAR wrote the FAQs about the settlement, he told ChatGPT to take the company policy and compensation and check them against the FAQs. "What do we need to change and rewrite?" The results were pretty good, but not perfect. [25:31] Matthew says it's just about thinking what you could do if you had a PhD-level assistant to do your bidding anytime. [25:50] Matthew renamed his ChatGPT Kit, from the show Knight Rider, with a cool accent. On his drives, he turns on the ability to chat back and forth. Matthew explains how to get audio voice engagement so you can have a conversation with AI. "I get lost, not remembering she isn't real." [26:44 While driving, Matthew asked ChatGPT to ask him 10 questions it would need to freshen up and rewrite his intro bio for his marketing materials. ChatGPT interviewed him and asked what person he wanted it in. It wrote him the best bio he's ever seen, based on things he wouldn't have thought to ask. [27:59] Monica says agents want help with AI. Monica has been encouraging brokers to create videos and PDFs as training tools for their agents to learn to use AI. Your AI can help you be a better trainer for your agents. [28:55] Craig adds his belief that the only way to win in today's marketing world is through content creation. One of the biggest issues brokerages and associations have is communication with their members. There's no excuse now not to become a content machine. [29:12] AI can help you create a year's worth of blogging content and video scripts. You can use an avatar if you don't want to be on camera. There's no reason brokerages and associations communicate with their members on a consistent basis, and do a much better job communicating with anyone. [29:47] Craig will speak more specifically about some great tools in the next episode of the Center for REALTOR® Development. [29:58] REBI has put together a class, The AI-Powered Real Estate Professional, the only AI course certified by NAR. It's a one-day course. Matthew and Craig walk you through the nuts and bolts of AI and the practical ways to use it in your business, the proper way, legally and ethically. [30:50] People can look for that class and book it for their area. [31:08] Thank you so much to Matthew Rathbun and Craig Grant! Come back next time to hear us talk about some specific uses for agents of AI in their businesses and some more specific tools. I'm Monica Neubauer for NAR's Center for REALTOR® Development. [31:24] Thank you for joining us to level up your skills to help you help more buyers and sellers. Tweetables: "I stick primarily to ChatGPT. The reason for that is that when we're doing demos for agents or we're creating content, doing it on various platforms can be confusing and overwhelming." — Matthew Rathbun "AI is going to be the most impactful technology in the modern era. … Not to utilize it as a broker means that you are being outpaced by every broker who is, but you're also not demonstrating the value to your agents … when they could not be more confused." — Matthew Rathbun "I think we're about to enter a new generation, not based on age but AI competency; just agents and brokers who are way more efficient and better at doing their jobs because they're leveraging AI." — Craig Grant "You've always got to check the sources. Make sure they're reliable sources. Go through everything to make sure everything's accurate. There should never be any copy and paste in AI. Review everything. AI does 90% of the work. You have to do that last 10%." — Craig Grant "Treat everything like a first draft and review every little detail of it before you publish it to the world, because you are 100% responsible for what you publish. If you publish something inaccurate, misleading, or violating the Code of Ethics, whatever it may be, that's you on the line." — Craig Grant "This newest version of Canva AI is mindblowing. I can tie in my recruiting campaign and my brand kit and create some of the most compelling and beautiful stuff in minutes that I could never have created before, either because of a lack of time or just talent." — Matthew Rathbun Guest Links: Matthew Rathbun, President of the Real Estate Business Institute Craig Grant, CEO of RETI.us NAR Resource Links Ep. 106: "AI Trends in Real Estate with Dan Weisman: Part 1" Ep. 107: "AI Trends in Real Estate with Dan Weisman: Part 2" Additional Links: Crdpodcast@nar.realtor Crdpodcast.REALTOR Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education Training4RE.com — List of Classroom Courses from NAR and its affiliates CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered Host Information: Monica Neubauer Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® Monica@MonicaNeubauer.com MonicaNeubauer.com FranklinTNBlog.com Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks Guest Bios Matthew Rathbun is the Broker and Executive VP of a Northern Virginia Coldwell Banker office. He's the President of the Real Estate Business Institute and an international speaker in the real estate industry. He helps tech make sense, and he has a balance in his communication style of being straightforward, telling it like it is, and also, really encouraging REALTORS® to actually do it. Craig Grant is the CEO of RETI.us, the real estate industry's online home for technology education. He's been a national technology speaker, educating us through many tech changes. He's a tremendous mentor for speakers and educators, and I have been the beneficiary of his wisdom over the years. This passion has led him to offer a Train the Trainer program and co-found the BEATS Alliance, promoting education for both the educator and education directors at associations.

In this discussion, Dr. Jessica Lautz, Deputy Chief Economist at the National Association of REALTORS®, explores the evolving market dynamics for first-time homebuyers, noting a record low of just 24%. She highlights the significant demographic and financial shifts affecting young buyers, including their reliance on assets like stocks for down payments. The conversation also touches on the rising influence of pets in homebuying preferences and the challenges older buyers face as they seek community-driven amenities.

Welcome, friends to the Center for REALTOR® Development podcast from the National Association of REALTORS®. I am so glad you are joining me and today's guest, Dr. Jessica Lautz from NAR. Dr. Lautz is the Deputy Chief Economist and Vice President of Research at the National Association of REALTORS®. I love, love, love my data friends and I always learn things to help me and my clients. These trends are so huge when talking with our clients and preparing ourselves, as well as just getting in the nitty gritty because our clients are looking at that national market but we're also in the local market. I'm so excited to talk today about how we put those two things together. We are releasing this interview in two episodes. This is Part 1. [1:16] Welcome, Jessica! What are the hot topics you are seeing that are important and different? Let's give our listeners a preview of what we're going to discuss in these two episodes, 110 and 111. [1:36] Jessica says the real estate market is divided into two markets. We have an all-time high of all cash home buyers with cash from housing equity. At the same time, we have an all-time low of first-time home buyers. [1:58] Everybody's demographics are changing and buyers are adapting to the real estate market at hand. We're going to go over fundamentals and dig into some demographics, too. [2:18] Did anybody expect these demographic changes? Some unexpected things are going on in the world. [2:27] When we look at the real estate market, we know it is a tough market. Inventory is still extremely limited, even though it's jumping and we're seeing rises in housing inventory. We're still under February of 2020 when the housing market went bananas! We know that it's a difficult market to get into. [2:55] Home sales in 2023, 2024, and the first quarter of 2025 have been the lowest since 1995. This is striking because we have 75 million more people in this country than we did in 1995. Home sales volume being at the same level as in 1995 doesn't make a lot of sense. [4:06] We have more family units that tend to be smaller. We need more homes. We have seen young adults doubling up with parents and older relatives doubling up with their adult children. We know we have a lot of pent-up demand in the housing market from those young adults trying to leave the nest. [4:39] We're going to talk a lot more about them and the first-time home buyer option in our second episode, look at the demographics, and some possible solutions for young adult home buyers. [4:50] With the low number of transactions, we don't see the number of real estate agents shrinking. That's unexpected. It's an incredibly competitive and dynamic industry. You have to show your value, and what you can do for a client seller, or buyer. It's very difficult and it's growing. [5:30] Dr. Lautz was in three cities last week, talking to REALTORS® in Lansing, MI, Nashville, TN, and Orlando, FL, three very different real estate markets. In each hotel, the person at the desk or a person in line told her they wanted to study for their real estate license. It's an attractive career path. [6:14] Monica told someone that the number of actual sales is down, but it is the kind of market where anybody willing to be creative and hustle can still get in. Dr. Lautz agrees. Everyone has a different business model Everybody has the niche market they develop over time. [6:46] Monica was an agent in 2008. There were a lot of foreclosures, so foreclosure agents were getting a disproportionate amount of business. Monica took on some side work to stay in the business. The whole country was economically challenged. It felt so different to Monica than right now. [7:22] Jobs are at a good level. Unemployment is at reasonable levels. Dr. Lautz says jobs are important for home sale activity. Interest rates have been stable recently in the mid-6% range. Mortgage delinquencies are low because people need to have good finances to get a mortgage loan. [9:17] Even someone in an unfortunate situation where they are forced to sell will probably get some cash out of their house. [9:40] Dr. Lautz says that in more than four-fifths of the markets, home prices keep going up. They are going up by double digits in some markets. It's a result of the lack of available inventory. Nationwide existing home sale prices are higher for each month than the NAR has ever seen in previous years. [10:20] Prices differ in markets around the country. In some markets, people bid up home prices during the pandemic and there has been an easing of prices in some of those areas. In Austin, home prices went up 45% year-over-year. There has been an easing there. Homeowners are in a winning situation. [11:13] In the pandemic, we borrowed buyers from the future. During the pandemic, people suddenly and unexpectedly decided to move while mortgage interest rates were lower. A lot of people either don't have a home mortgage or are in a low-interest-rate mortgage. They have no intention of moving. [12:19] There are a lot of people who are just trying to make it work, even though they would be in a better situation if they moved. [12:32] Mortgage interest rates in the high sixes are a full percentage point below the historical average since 1971. Some people are sitting on enough equity that if they used it for a down payment, they could be in a better financial situation. [13:06] If agents called all of their past clients to discuss the situation, and those clients talked to their mortgage lender to find out what their options are, people would find out they have more options than they realized. [13:44] Do people in their first home understand the trade that can be made now? Do they understand the equity that they're sitting on? The housing equity gains we've had in the last few years are very unusual. [13:56] From 2020 to 2024, we saw a 50% increase in price appreciation, nationally. In some states, it's topping 70%. These homeowners are sitting on a lot of cash. Many of them could be in a better situation if they made that move. Monica points out there are more options than people think. [14:55] Dr. Lautz speaks of the many all-cash buyers in this market, for more than two years, now, topping more than a quarter of the market. There are a lot of people who can make these housing trades or put down extremely sizable down payments because of the housing equity they earn. [15:13] Half of older Baby Boomers and nearly 40% of younger Boomers in their 60s are putting down all cash. They know the value of home ownership and they're making housing trades. [15:29] Monica's message to the younger people: If you can get the house, get the house. Who knows where you're going to be in 10 years? Over time, even if there's a little bit of a down payment, the value keeps going up. [15:46] Dr. Lautz hopes that wages will go up also, but that's guesswork. [16:03] Monica discusses the U.S. credit rating downgrade of May 2025. When the U.S. credit rating goes down, stuff happens in the bond market, and then that affects the interest rate. [16:33] Dr. Lautz says NAR is reporting that there have been a lot of investors in the bond market who have decided not to invest but to sell or move money into something else. That means that the 10-year Treasury goes up. Mortgage interest rates are closely aligned with the 10-year Treasury. [17:11] We have had about a 2% added interest rate. If the 10-year Treasury is at 5%, the 30-year fixed would go to 7%. The NAR forecast is that the 30-year fixed will be in the 6% range. It could touch 7% for a few days and then come back down into the 6% range. They probably won't go down by much. [18:20] Be sure that any buyer you are working with is in close contact with their mortgage broker. The broker will lock in the best rate they can get on that day. They will be watching rates more closely than a buyer has time to. Working with that expert is incredibly important. [18:55] Dr. Lautz notes that the use of FHA and VA loans has gone down. How many people are aware of these low-down-payment options that are out there for buyers? They do have a different interest rate than what you could see for a conventional loan product. You need a smaller down payment. [19:36] Something that goes under the radar is the low-down-payment options in your community for teachers, nurses, first responders, and just first-time home buyers overall. Many buyers and potential buyers nothing about these programs that can help first-time home buyers to get into the market easier. [20:24] Monica advises agents not to make assumptions about buyers and not to assume the lender is making all the options available to your first-time home buyer. If inventory is not moving, sellers want to see offers. [20:53] Dr. Lautz says now is a good opportunity for first-time buyers, because of the recent 6% rate range, more housing inventory coming onto the market, and the lock-in effect of repeat buyers. First time home buyers stand a chance because they're not overwhelmed by repeat buyers. [21:14] Being able to come into the market, see several homes in their price range, look at the homes for more than 15 minutes, and have a conversation with the seller through their agents. [21:35] Homes are selling quickly but there are four months of inventory on the market. Dr. Lautz says most homes are selling in under a month. Buyers generally have a few days to make up their minds. We could not say that a couple of years ago! [22:23] Dr. Lautz explains capital gains on home equity. This will be one of the top issues of the REALTORS®' Legislative Meeting. The advocacy team, led by Shannon McGann is in talks with legislators to adjust the capital gains limit with inflation above where it has been stuck for decades. [23:39] The public doesn't understand the current capital gains deduction and needs to be educated by agents about it. [23:59] Thinking of people who are aging in place, is their home working for them? Are they able to stay in that home with 14 stairs in the long run? For a lot of people, the answer is no. But they may be limiting themselves as they think their tax bill to sell will be too high. It may not be as much as they think. [24:32] Making sure that you're talking to the tax experts who know all of that is incredibly important. Sellers need to understand what they are going to be taxed on. [24:47] So many great topics for our agents to take and talk to their sphere about! Newsletter fodder! All kinds of great things to help educate the public about! [24:58] This has been a great conversation with Dr. Jessica Lautz. Thank you so much! We're going to do another episode, so check back in when that's released. [25:07] For my listeners, I want to remind you of all the learning opportunities at Learning.REALTOR. You can access so many courses there and each month, there are specials if you want to get a deal. We hope you'll join us for Part 2 with Dr. Jessica Lautz from NAR. [25:24] I'm Monica Neubauer for NAR's Center for REALTOR® Development. Thank you so much, Dr. Lautz. [25:31] All right, folks! Now, go out there and sell some more houses! Find them if you need to! We'll see you soon! Tweetables: "When we look at the real estate market, we know it is a tough market. Inventory is still extremely limited, even though it's jumping, even though we're seeing rises in housing inventory. We know that we're still under February of 2020 when the housing market went bananas!" — Dr. Jessica Lautz "What we have seen is that we have a large number of people who are doubling up, young adults with parents. We also have a large number of older relatives who are doubling up, too, with their adult children." — Dr. Jessica Lautz "You have to show your value. You have to be out there showing what you can do for a client to make sure that you can get the listing or you can work with that buyer. And it is very difficult." — Dr. Jessica Lautz "There are a lot of people who are just trying to make it work, even though they would be in a better situation if they moved." — Dr. Jessica Lautz "When we look at FHA and VA loans, the use has gone down, unfortunately. I wonder how many people are aware of these low-down-payment options that are out there. They do have a different interest rate than what you could see for a conventional loan product." — Dr. Jessica Lautz Guest Links: Dr. Jessica Lautz, Deputy Chief Economist and Vice President of Research at the National Association of REALTORS®. NAR Resource Links ABR® Accredited Buyer's Representative Additional Links: Crdpodcast@nar.realtor Crdpodcast.REALTOR Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered Host Information: Monica Neubauer Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® Monica@MonicaNeubauer.com MonicaNeubauer.com FranklinTNBlog.com Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks Guest Bio Dr. Jessica Lautz is the Deputy Chief Economist and Vice President of Research at the National Association of REALTORS®. She has been with NAR since 2007. The core of her research focuses on analyzing trends for both NAR members and housing consumers. She is in demand as a speaker and by major media outlets to provide commentary on the real estate market. She has testified before Congress on behalf of NAR. She also volunteers at Nottingham Trent University as an industry fellow mentoring real estate graduate students, is a committee chair at the National Association of Business Economics, bakes birthday cakes for underserved youth with Cake4Kids, and sits on the board of the Food Recovery Network. Dr. Lautz has been recognized by Housing Wire's Women of Influence and RISMedia's Newsmaker award. Jessica received her Doctorate in Real Estate from Nottingham Trent University in the United Kingdom. She also holds a Master's in Public Policy from American University and undergraduate degrees in Political Science and Law and Justice from Central Washington University.

Evan Fuchs, a 28-year award-winning REALTOR® and industry leader from Bullhead City, Arizona, shares his insights on mastering negotiation. He emphasizes the importance of adaptability in varying markets and the need for agents to hone their negotiation skills based on client specifics. Fuchs discusses the value of emotional detachment and a positive mindset, as well as prioritizing interests over positions for creative solutions. Continuous learning and preparation are highlighted as keys to successful negotiations in real estate.