Center for REALTOR® Development 116: Livable Communities for the 50-Plus Population with Rodney Harrell, PhD: Part 1
Welcome to NAR's Center for REALTOR® Development podcast. I'm Monica Neubauer, your host. We are very excited to have Dr. Rodney Harrell from the AARP as our guest today.
Rodney Harrell, PhD, is the Vice President of Family, Home, and Community at AARP, where he leads national work on housing, livable communities, and aging in place. He created the AARP Livability Index™, guiding how we evaluate and design neighborhoods that truly work. With a PhD in Urban Planning from the University of Maryland and a deep background in public policy and community development, Dr. Harrell brings data-driven actionable insights on how real estate intersects with longevity, lifestyle, and liveability. He is a housing specialist who focuses on housing for mature adults and people who want to become mature adults one day.
[:52] We are very excited to have Dr. Rodney Harrell from the AARP as our guest today. Welcome, Rodney!
[:57] Monica introduces Dr. Harrell and describes his role with the AARP and his focus on livable communities for mature adults and future mature adults.
[2:10] Monica is excited to talk with Dr. Harrell. She taught the Senior Real Estate Specialist Designation for many years. She brings up these points about 50-plus people: Boomers do not want to be called Seniors. The 50-plus market has three generations in it. What do the 50-plus want to be called today?
[2:40] Dr. Harrell says it's important to consider that aging isn't always the same. It's not the same as it has been, and it's not the same as it will be in the future. It's not the same for everybody. Your aging journey is your journey.
[2:54] Dr. Harrell likes to think about people by age group. People who are 50 and older are part of the 50-plus population. More importantly, he thinks about people at life stages. What's going on in their life, family, and self? Are you an empty nester, not driving, or having trouble with stairs?
[3:26] For thinking about people as a group, age ranges or life stages are useful. Dr Harrell likes to think of people as individuals.
[3:34] Monica is of an age where she could have grandchildren. She has grown children, and she could have grandchildren, but she doesn't. She's rearranging her life stage with some of the other things that go with grandchildren, but not having that mile marker.
[4:01] Dr. Harrell notes that we go through these different parts of life at different points. When he talks to people about housing decisions, he asks them to think about where they are today and where they think they will be in the future, not where someone tells them they should be.
[4:22] We should all think about our life journey. When we're talking to folks who are buying real estate or making housing decisions, the more we can personalize and make this decision point about them, the better off we'll be.
[4:51] Monica starts a discussion of the AARP Livability Index™. How do REALTORS® use it? Dr. Harrell and his colleagues at AARP created it 10 years ago. It's the world's first nationwide, neighborhood-based livability index.
[5:30] The index measures every neighborhood in the country across 61 indicators and creates seven category scores, including Housing, Transportation, the Environment, and Healthcare. Using the seven scores, it creates a combined score.
[5:48] Dr. Harrell and his team created the index with input from experts around the country to answer the question of what makes a community livable.
[4:54] What is the kind of community that people of all ages, incomes, and ability levels can age in? How do we measure that and put it in a way that anybody can grasp quickly? It took about three years to put the Index together. They've been improving it for 10 more years.
[6:15] Monica points out that tools like that are very interesting. It creates easy searchability. She has been looking at her own community with the AARP Livability Index™. It was interesting to see how the Index rates things and why her community had low scores in certain areas.
[6:52] Monica says the Livability Index is connected with the REALTORS® Property Resource®.
[7:08] Dr. Harrell says he loves the relationship the AARP Livability Index™ has with the RPR®. In the RPR®, you can see the Livability Index score and the category scores for this ZIP Code. Those tell you if the neighborhood has the options that people need as they are aging.
[7:32] These are things like transportation options, options to walk to things they might need, options for healthcare, and options to be outside in a healthy way. The Index measures a lot of things about each neighborhood.
[7:45] You can quickly access the scores through RPR® or go back to the AARP site from RPR® and see more details.
[7:59] Dr. Harrell talks about important factors for the Livability Index. Transparency. It doesn't just give you a 13 for environment. It tells you about the water quality and air quality. It tells you the source for the figures, so you can find out more and try to improve it in your community.
[8:32] If you're trying to buy a home, take that into account as one of the tradeoffs of living in this place. Dr. Harrell says many people make housing decisions without doing a thorough evaluation of how it might meet their needs today and tomorrow. The goal of the Index is to help fill that gap.
[8:50] The Index gives a lot of information, so people thinking about a neighborhood on the East side of town or the West side of town can look at the Index and find out about this neighborhood or that one.
[9:04] Dr. Harrell shares that there's no perfect neighborhood. No neighborhood in the country gets 100 out of 100 on this Index. Each community has tradeoffs. Understanding those tradeoffs that you're making to be in this place or that one helps you make a better decision for yourself.
[9:36] Dr. Harrell says they put together the Index to help you think about the future and the kinds of things you might need. Many people don't think about the fact that if they're driving today, they might not be driving tomorrow. On average, we outlive our driving years by several years.
[9:56] What might happen if you're driving today, but will no longer want to or be able to? Having public transportation options or being able to walk to stores nearby becomes much more important. If you've bought a house but haven't thought about it, that could be a challenge.
[10:17] The Index helps real estate customers think about their needs today and into tomorrow.
[10:27] Monica shares her experience using the Livability Index. It's incredibly easy. She could see clearly the process they follow to get the scores. Real estate agents can use it as a resource when people ask, "Well, what's it like in your area?" There's so much in the Livability Index.
[11:19] Just going through the Livability Index will get them educated about their community.
[11:43] Dr. Harrell says they pored over each category of the Index with their technical advisor committee and their experts at the Public Policy Institute at AARP. They wanted something that would tell a narrative about transportation, opportunity, civic and social engagement, and more.
[12:03] The Index is about the types of things people want and how to measure that. It's important to have things that can be measured. Not everything important is measurable. Over the years, one of the goals was to make it more user-friendly. Todney says, today, anybody can use it.
[12:31] It's a great tool to supplement the other parts of your real estate journey.
[12:46] Monica says it led her right through it. She learned a lot in five minutes of easy clicking.
[14:14] Monica asks Dr. Harrell what he has learned about the aging population from this data. Dr. Harrell says that lived experience is so important because it gives us the background to understand ourselves and where we are.
[14:43] Dr. Harrell says it amazes him how many people don't think they're going to get older than they are today. Whatever life stage they're in is where their mindset is. They address the issues they have at that life stage. One of the big things at AARP is thinking about the future.
[15:17] The AARP has an initiative called The Future of Housing. Dr. Harrell asks people who are buying a home to think about the future remodeling they may need. What options may they need, such as a zero-step entrance, a bedroom on the first floor, and nearby transportation?
[16:08] If you think about not just where you are today, but where you might be tomorrow, you're going to make better decisions, no matter what decision you make. It will be better if you think about the future.
[16:18] Monica thinks the AARP Livability Index™ and this podcast episode might be good tools for real estate agents to share with their customers.
[17:10] Dr. Harrell says the AARP launched the Livability Index at the American Planning Association's National Conference. It shows urban planners designing communities, AARP's suggestions for housing near transportation, stores, libraries, and parks.
[17:34] That's valuable for REALTORS® as well. They can talk to clients and say AARP thinks that it's important to have someplace where you can walk for exercise and have access to stores, libraries, and places where you can interact with other folks. This neighborhood has more of that.
[18:17] Monica and Dr. Harrell discuss mature adults moving into independent housing communities. Dr. Harrell says 10K people are turning 65 every day in the U.S. By 2034, there will be more people over 65 than under 18, for the first time in U.S. history.
[19:47] All of what we've learned for centuries about communities and housing is shifting. Aging is here, and it's our future. Dr. Harrell mentions an AARP initiative, "Future of Housing." AARP surveys show that the vast majority of people want to stay in their communities as they age.
[21:03] If 80%-plus of older adults want to stay in their home or community, that still leaves a lot of people moving to Florida and Arizona. There will be people trying to stay in their home and community, or find options nearby to downsize. Others will be moving to retirement communities.
[22:14] Some retirement apartments are second homes for older adults where they spend a season near their adult children. The AARP Livability Index™ includes a Community Finder tool, where you can enter a core location, like your child's house, and search for nearby communities.
[23:07] This feature lets you specify a community with X, Y, Z features near your child's home, or near a university, hospital, or favorite sports team, etc. There's a quiz to take to help you find communities that meet your needs.
[23:41] Monica says, Dr. Harrell, this is so much good information! The second episode will talk about policy and come back to the future of housing. Monica asks two questions to wrap up this episode.
[23:58] The first question is what fun and quirky things Dr. Harrell has learned that he can share with our listeners. The second is Dr. Harrell's final word on how he would encourage real estate agents right now, and their older adult clients, the bulk of the people buying and selling houses.
[24:22] Older adults are a large part of the population, and growing. A quirky question: Dr. Harrell was talking with a woman in her 90s in Alabama. He asked what would happen when she could no longer go up and down the stairs. She said she hadn't thought about it yet.
[24:43] It reminded Dr. Harrell that no matter how old you are, you're not too old to think you're too young to worry about being old. All of us need to think about it. There are so many of us who are not thinking about the future. Dr. Harrell hopes we can all do that.
[25:05] Dr. Harrell's charge to our listeners: "As you're out there helping people, whether they're 30, 40, 50, 80, 90, or anywhere in between, help them to think about their needs today and also how their needs might change, over time."
[25:20] "What happens if their income might shift? What if the economy shifts? What happens if they cannot get up the stairs anymore? Or a spouse passes? Just help them have that thought about their future and their lives."
[25:32] "That's what leads to folks having better housing decisions that better meet their needs over time. That's the real goal, by the way, that we have at AARP in this housing space, having people end up in better housing positions than they would have otherwise without our help."
[25:48] "And so we create this Index and a range of other things, our Home Fit Guide, so many things that we create that help people get to the homes that best work for them and the options that best work for them."
[25:58] "I think all of our listeners are important parts in helping people make those decisions, so please do. Folks out there can use a little help sometimes, making the right call."
[26:10] I am such a fan of data, and I'm really quite excited that we had you on the podcast, and that I learned how much data… I'm a member of AARP, and I read your magazine, and there's all kinds of information, but I didn't know all of this!
[26:26] So, I want all of us; this is a tool for everyone to use for everything. Don't limit yourself because I love all the data, and we as real estate professionals need to provide as much data to our clients as possible, don't we?
[26:40] Dr. Harrell agrees, as much information as possible. There's no such thing as too much information, unless it becomes overwhelming. All the information that you could have, and then put it in a way that people can use it; that's one of the things that we see as important.
[26:52] Take all the data and information possible, but then, distill it down to what folks need, and that's what we try to do with the Index, and hopefully, we can do that with all those customers, as well.
[27:03] Awesome! Thank you so much, Dr. Rodney Harrell from the AARP! This was, in my opinion, excellent information for us to know about this segment, but really, for all of our clients. There are so many great tips, and this tool is for everyone.
[27:19] So, join us next time, as Dr. Harrell and I discuss policies in government that affect our senior community. We'll talk about the future of housing. These are things you're going to want to be aware of and possibly get involved with at your state or maybe your local level.
[27:34] If you want to expand your education on working with the over-50 population, or if you want to know more information to help aging members of your family, take the Senior Real Estate Specialist course from NAR and the Center for REALTOR® Development.
[27:49] Find live or online class opportunities at Learning.REALTOR. I've taught that class since 2008. It is an amazing treasure trove of information. It's practical and it's immediately implementable in your business.
[28:06] Thank you, Dr. Harrell. Thank you to our listeners. I'm Monica Neubauer for the Center for REALTOR® Development. With all these new tools, go out there and have more conversations and sell more houses!
Tweetables:
"It's important to think about that aging isn't always the same. It's not necessarily the same as it was, and it's not necessarily the same as it's going to be in the future. It's not the same as it is for everybody else. Your aging journey is your journey." — Rodney Harrell, PhD
"My colleagues and I created the AARP Livability Index™ 10 years ago. It's the world's first nationwide, neighborhood-based livability index." — Rodney Harrell, PhD
"More importantly for me is thinking about folks at life stages. What's going on in your life, with your family, with yourself? That is a better description of you. Are you somebody who's an empty nester, now, regardless of what age that is?" — Rodney Harrell, PhD
"What can we get that tells a story, that tells a narrative about each of these things? Transportation, opportunity, civic and social engagement; the other categories of the index? What are the types of things that people want and how can we measure that?" — Rodney Harrell, PhD
"It never ceases to amaze me how many people don't think they're going to get older than they are today. People think of whatever life stage they're in, that's where their mindset is. They're going to address the issues that they have at that life stage." — Rodney Harrell, PhD
"There's no such thing as too much information, unless it becomes overwhelming. All the information that you could have, and then put it in a way that people can use it; that's one of the things that we see as important." — Rodney Harrell, PhD
Guest Links:
Rodney Harrell, PhD, Vice President, Family, Home and Community, AARP Public Policy Institute
Additional Links:
Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education
Training4RE.com — List of Classroom Courses from NAR and its affiliates
CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered
Host Information:
Monica Neubauer
Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR®
Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer
Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks
Guest Bio
Rodney Harrell, PhD
Rodney Harrell, PhD, is Vice President, Family, Home, and Community (FHC) for AARP. In that role, he leads AARP Public Policy Institute's FHC team of experts on long-term services and supports, family caregiving, and livable communities, and he is an enterprise lead across AARP on housing and livable communities issues.
Dr. Harrell first joined AARP in 2008 and served as a senior advisor and as a director in the Public Policy Institute prior to becoming a vice president. He led the team that created the award-winning AARP Livability Index™ platform, which measures the livability of every neighborhood and community in the United States, and builds on his research on housing preferences, neighborhood choice, and community livability.
Before joining AARP, he was an independent research and evaluation consultant and a researcher and instructor at the University of Maryland. He has also been a CPAR Research Fellow at the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation and a Maryland Governor's Policy Fellow, leading programs in the Maryland Department of Housing and Community Development/Maryland Heritage Areas Authority.
Dr. Harrell is a member of the board of trustees of the National Building Museum, is chair of the Champions Council of the Coalition for Smarter Growth, and a board member and past chair of the Board of Visitors for the University of Maryland School of Architecture, Planning and Preservation. He formerly served as the vice chair-policy for the American Planning Association's Planning and the Black Community Division and has served on several local boards and committees in Maryland. He is a member of the Phi Beta Kappa and Phi Kappa Phi honor societies and was named to the initial class of Top Influencers in Aging for his work with AARP.
He holds a doctorate in urban planning and design from the University of Maryland, earned dual master's degrees in public affairs and urban planning from the School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University, and graduated summa cum laude from the honors program at Howard University with a bachelor's degree in political science.