Center for REALTOR® Development 112: Center for REALTOR® Development: AI for REALTORS® with Matthew Rathbun and Craig Grant: Part 1
Welcome to the Center for REALTOR® Development podcast from the National Association of REALTORS®. I'm Monica Neubauer, your host.
Before we start today, I have a favor to ask. We so appreciate you, our faithful listeners, and we are so glad that you're coming and learning with all of our amazing guests. However, when I travel, I find lots of folks who could benefit from what we are sharing here for free every month. So, please share this podcast with friends and other agents in your brokerage firm. Let's help everybody be more educated. Thanks for doing that!
Today is everyone's favorite topic; it's AI. We had a great conversation recently with Dan Weisman, you can go back and listen to, as well. He's NAR staff. My guests today both make AI work for them in practical ways, every day. I love practical application. You all have heard me talk about it; just good tools to help me be more efficient. Sometimes I like these new tools because they help me stop putting off things that I put off because they felt too big, and now I have this friend who will help me do it. My guests will give us some tips on some of the software. I now tackle some of these things with my GPT friend.
Matthew Rathbun is the Broker and Executive VP of a Northern Virginia Coldwell Banker office. He's the President of the Real Estate Business Institute and an international speaker in the real estate industry. He helps tech make sense, and he has a balance in his communication style of being straightforward, telling it like it is, and also, really encouraging to help us to actually do it. Craig Grant is the CEO of RETI.us, the real estate industry's online home for technology education. He's been a national technology speaker, educating us through many tech changes. He's a tremendous mentor for speakers and educators. This passion has led him to offer a Train the Trainer program and co-found the BEATS Alliance, promoting education for both the educator and education directors at associations.
We are releasing this interview in two episodes. This is Part 1.
Important: Be mindful of the limitations and risks of using generative artificial intelligence and protect personal, financial and confidential information from being shared with an AI platform. Keep in mind that content produced by generative AI tools is not always correct. Avoid using AI for legal advice and engaging in the unauthorized practice of law; always seek appropriate advice from actual professionals. Do not use AI to create content you wish to copyright, as AI-generated works are not protectable under U.S. copyright law.
[2:30] Matthew Rathbun helps tech make sense, and he has a balance in his communication style of being straightforward, telling it like it is, and also, really encouraging to help us do it. Welcome, Matthew! Matthew says it's great to be part of this episode.
[3:04] Craig Grant's passion has led him to offer a Train the Trainer program and co-found the BEATS Alliance, promoting education for both the educator and education directors at associations. Welcome, Craig! Craig thanks Monica for having him on this episode.
[3:20] We're going to share some specific wisdom for the brokers in our first episode. While everyone's going to benefit from this conversation, Matthew's going to share some specifics because he's a broker.
[3:33] We're going to have Craig in the second episode be the lead for some more tools for everyone. Both episodes are going to be great for everyone.
[3:50] Craig shares the tech we will be discussing: ChatGPT, Google Gemini, Microsoft Copilot, Perplexity, Claude, DeepSeek, and others. Craig recommends using the big platforms, Google Gemini, Microsoft Copilot, and OpenAI ChatGPT, versus others that don't have the legal and financial standing.
[4:41] Craig says the two main ones to use are ChatGPT and Google Gemini. Other options might do things just as well, but Craig falls back on the legal protection side. Craig notes that there is a huge difference between the free versions and the paid models.
[5:17] Matthew agrees with Craig on limiting the tools. He sticks primarily to ChatGPT because when doing demos for agents or creating content, doing it on various platforms can be confusing and overwhelming.
[5:36] Matthew explains that each of the platforms Craig mentioned may do a certain type of task. Claude may be better for legal experts, programmers, and coders by about 10%. For Matthew, as a broker, it's not worth an extra 10% benefit to switch platforms, although he may want to use those tools.
[6:04] Matthew settled on ChatGPT largely because they've got more finances for the legal fight that will inevitably come down the pike. They are also trying a little harder to put up relatively good safeguards.
[6:17] Matthew says, as a broker, if I'm deploying a product, I want to make sure that it isn't going to be harmful. ChatGPT has put up guardrails against adult content, violence, and duplicating material from a living author, celebrity, or artist, so Matthew feels better deploying it in his brokerage.
[6:46] Matthew used it before coming to this podcast recording. He had a 90-minute segment with his agents on using AI for marketing.
[7:11] Matthew says we have to face the realities, or we can't get where we need to go. If you're a broker, you have an obligation to lead. Leaders create a practice that is to be emulated. AI is world-changing already. It has advanced us in so many areas.
[7:32] Not utilizing AI as a broker means that you are being outpaced by every broker who is, but you're also not demonstrating the value to your agents when they could not be more confused, frustrated, and overwhelmed.
[7:45] AI, although it has a learning curve, brings clarity and specificity to tasks. Matthew believes that agents with AI will significantly outpace agents without it. As a leader, you need to create tools and resources to help your agents be better at their jobs and reduce some of the anxiety out there.
[8:15] Craig says we're about to enter a new generation, not based on age but AI competency; just agents and brokers who are way more efficient and better at doing their jobs because they're leveraging AI, versus the other ones who are going to get left in the dust because they're not using this technology.
[8:35] Matthew's advice for brokers is to bring your creativity and your humanity. Show agents what could occur in the betterment of their careers if they use these tools. Then use your creativity to create tools. Matthew believes AIs enhance the work.
[9:20] Matthew has about 300 agents. For years, he has had agents who need an assistant but are not successful enough to afford one. Now they have one in their pocket with a PhD-level brain about marketing, productivity, our contract, and the law. It still takes us to give that information a brand voice.
[9:50] For Matthew, being an AI-forward leader means creating content to show his agents what they can do with it. Within a month of ChatGPT rolling out, Matthew was doing classes on it. Agents started by uploading a PDF of their contract into it and asking it questions for clarity on things they didn't know.
[10:48] The next thing they did was create custom GPTs. There are libraries of GPTs available, but it's easy to create your own.
[11:19] Matthew has GPT tutorials just for brokers. He recommends that association leaders also create them for their members.
[11:35] Click on your ChatGPT profile and go to Custom GPTs. The AI tool has the world's knowledge that's publicly available. It understands marketing concepts and the law. There may be things that you create in your company that you want to be in a place where your agents can grab them.
[12:09] Matthew uploaded transcripts of his contract training videos into the GPT. That's content that the world doesn't have. It influences how the GPT answers agent contract questions.
[12:35] The next step Matthew took was to upload all of his teaching about marketing and his favorite literature about marketing, like Storybrand, by Donald Miller, into the GPT. [12:44] Monica asks Matthew to pause and go back to the contracts. She asks Matthew's thoughts about using General ChatGPT to get tips to solve issues. Matthew speaks of the importance of having an AI use policy for the brokerage. There are many templates out there.
[14:00] You can ask ChatGPT for an AI use policy for a real estate brokerage. Matthew wrote his brokerage policy and then realized how much time he could have saved by having ChatGPT do it. He put a sticky note on his PC asking, "How can AI help me do this?"
[14:42] For 30 days, every time Matthew sat at the computer, he looked at the sticky note and asked how AI could help him do the job of being a broker, or an educator, or an agent, better. It was amazing what he started applying it to that he had never conceptualized before.
[14:56] Matthew encourages agents to use General ChatGPT while reminding them of the company policy, "You are still liable for whatever you do, based on the advice of AI. You can never go back and say AI told you to do these three steps or interpret this paragraph."
[15:12] Matthew has a great prompt to help you do a CNA in minutes. He still tells the agents, "You still are responsible for knowing how to do a proper CNA. If you don't know the basics, you don't know if the AI is giving you bad data or not."
[15:29] It's the same thing with your contracts. Checking with General ChatGPT helps enhance and trigger things in our brains. When it's late at night, your brain is fried, and you have to negotiate terms, AI helps fill in the stuff you may have forgotten.
[15:46] Craig says that AI can regularly give you completely false or misleading information. Always check the sources to see that they are reliable. Go through everything to make sure it's accurate. There should never be any copy and paste in AI. Review it. AI does 90% of the work. You do the last 10%.
[16:23] Treat everything like a first draft and review every little detail of it before you publish it to the world, because you are 100% responsible for what you publish. If you publish something inaccurate, misleading, or violating the Code of Ethics, whatever it may be, that's you on the line.
[16:37] Matthew stresses that AI is an assistant, not a licensee. AI can help with the draft. Everything is a draft that Matthew needs to edit and make his own. AI is just for idea-sharing and problem-solving.
[17:03] Matthew then created a GPT for marketing. He took the books he's written, the onboarding and training materials, into a GPT. Matthew told it to create content in the StoryBrand framework for marketing and create scripts using this six-step process.
[17:33] Matthew did the work and shared the GPT link with the agents. Now they have content that Matthew, the broker, feels is trustworthy. That's a marketing assistant. When agents ask it to create a blog post, it creates content and walks the agent through the steps to post it.
[18:10] Matthew isn't an AI-first executive. He doesn't believe in replacing humans with AI. However, his marketing team now has far more time to create meaningful content rather than trying to teach agents how to write a script. The AI will do that for them if we teach the agent to use it. It frees up time.
[18:38] A lot of agents are putting children to bed, putting laundry away, and finally sitting down to focus on their business at 11:00 at night. They can use the marketing GPT to play with their ideas. The GPT supplements Matthew as a broker. He cannot be with them at 11:00 p.m.
[19:21] Matthew returns to the topic of having AI create an AI use policy or edit one you create. Matthew had ChatGPT review the AI use policy he wrote, and it came up with two additional points. That led him to input the full company policy into AI and check it for compliance with modern HR issues.
[19:48] It gave him great language, although he toned it down to be less formal. It gave Matthew what he needed to update his policy, and he is confident that he has the tightest, best policy he could have right now. He didn't pay anyone to do that. It was 20 minutes' worth of work. Matthew edited it.
[20:31] Craig notes that a lot of policy manuals were written years ago. They don't involve some modern concerns, such as cybersecurity, data retention, AI, and things that have popped up over the last couple of years. Most brokerages and associations haven't thought to update their company policy manuals.
[20:53] Craig says that how Matthew updated his policy manual was brilliant. He uploaded three contemporary example manuals and asked what was missing from his manual. When you create a new manual, have everyone go back and re-sign it.
[21:14] Most of the things that apply to brokerage manuals apply to association manuals.
[21:24] Craig mentions onboarding processes. Associations have a lot of problems when they lose a staff member. There are months of training and getting that new person up to speed. This is an area to leverage AI. AI can help with onboarding processes and training manuals.
[21:54] Matthew's big Aha moment was in asking what AI can do to help me do this better. That creates creativity. How far can he push it? Matthew uses the Todoist platform to track his daily activities. He realized recently that he wanted a 90-day follow-up program for the phase after an agent joins.
[22:16] He wanted to-do items paced throughout the 90 days; a reminder to send a handwritten note; a reminder to call them? He wanted the to-dos to come to him on certain days throughout the 90 days. He took his manual to-do lists and asked ChatGPT to create a 90-day template in Todoist, which it did.
[22:42] Matthew's last custom GPT is recruiting. Recruiting is up to his leadership team. Matthew took all of his recruiting resources and uploaded them to a custom GPT with job specifications. He asked for a recruiting platform, a follow-up plan, talking points, and what time to post them to get in front of agents.
[24:13] What his GPT gave him reinforced what he already knew, which gave him confidence to execute his recruiting plan. It also made him think about things he couldn't create himself, such as having Suno create a rap song about his company and adding it to a video created in his backyard. It got attention.
[24:42] Canva AI is mindblowing. Matthew can tie in his recruiting campaign and his brand kit and create compelling and beautiful content in minutes that he could not have created before. He doesn't hire a recruiting firm or a marketing firm to do it. He just needs the imagination to get it done.
[25:13] Matthew says that as soon as NAR wrote the FAQs about the settlement, he told ChatGPT to take the company policy and compensation and check them against the FAQs. "What do we need to change and rewrite?" The results were pretty good, but not perfect.
[25:31] Matthew says it's just about thinking what you could do if you had a PhD-level assistant to do your bidding anytime.
[25:50] Matthew renamed his ChatGPT Kit, from the show Knight Rider, with a cool accent. On his drives, he turns on the ability to chat back and forth. Matthew explains how to get audio voice engagement so you can have a conversation with AI. "I get lost, not remembering she isn't real."
[26:44 While driving, Matthew asked ChatGPT to ask him 10 questions it would need to freshen up and rewrite his intro bio for his marketing materials. ChatGPT interviewed him and asked what person he wanted it in. It wrote him the best bio he's ever seen, based on things he wouldn't have thought to ask.
[27:59] Monica says agents want help with AI. Monica has been encouraging brokers to create videos and PDFs as training tools for their agents to learn to use AI. Your AI can help you be a better trainer for your agents.
[28:55] Craig adds his belief that the only way to win in today's marketing world is through content creation. One of the biggest issues brokerages and associations have is communication with their members. There's no excuse now not to become a content machine.
[29:12] AI can help you create a year's worth of blogging content and video scripts. You can use an avatar if you don't want to be on camera. There's no reason brokerages and associations communicate with their members on a consistent basis, and do a much better job communicating with anyone.
[29:47] Craig will speak more specifically about some great tools in the next episode of the Center for REALTOR® Development.
[29:58] REBI has put together a class, The AI-Powered Real Estate Professional, the only AI course certified by NAR. It's a one-day course. Matthew and Craig walk you through the nuts and bolts of AI and the practical ways to use it in your business, the proper way, legally and ethically.
[30:50] People can look for that class and book it for their area.
[31:08] Thank you so much to Matthew Rathbun and Craig Grant! Come back next time to hear us talk about some specific uses for agents of AI in their businesses and some more specific tools. I'm Monica Neubauer for NAR's Center for REALTOR® Development.
[31:24] Thank you for joining us to level up your skills to help you help more buyers and sellers.
Tweetables:
"I stick primarily to ChatGPT. The reason for that is that when we're doing demos for agents or we're creating content, doing it on various platforms can be confusing and overwhelming." — Matthew Rathbun
"AI is going to be the most impactful technology in the modern era. … Not to utilize it as a broker means that you are being outpaced by every broker who is, but you're also not demonstrating the value to your agents … when they could not be more confused." — Matthew Rathbun
"I think we're about to enter a new generation, not based on age but AI competency; just agents and brokers who are way more efficient and better at doing their jobs because they're leveraging AI." — Craig Grant
"You've always got to check the sources. Make sure they're reliable sources. Go through everything to make sure everything's accurate. There should never be any copy and paste in AI. Review everything. AI does 90% of the work. You have to do that last 10%." — Craig Grant
"Treat everything like a first draft and review every little detail of it before you publish it to the world, because you are 100% responsible for what you publish. If you publish something inaccurate, misleading, or violating the Code of Ethics, whatever it may be, that's you on the line." — Craig Grant
"This newest version of Canva AI is mindblowing. I can tie in my recruiting campaign and my brand kit and create some of the most compelling and beautiful stuff in minutes that I could never have created before, either because of a lack of time or just talent." — Matthew Rathbun
Guest Links:
Matthew Rathbun, President of the Real Estate Business Institute
Craig Grant, CEO of RETI.us
NAR Resource Links
Ep. 106: "AI Trends in Real Estate with Dan Weisman: Part 1"
Ep. 107: "AI Trends in Real Estate with Dan Weisman: Part 2"
Additional Links:
Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education
Training4RE.com — List of Classroom Courses from NAR and its affiliates
CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered
Host Information:
Monica Neubauer
Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR®
Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer
Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks
Guest Bios
Matthew Rathbun is the Broker and Executive VP of a Northern Virginia Coldwell Banker office. He's the President of the Real Estate Business Institute and an international speaker in the real estate industry. He helps tech make sense, and he has a balance in his communication style of being straightforward, telling it like it is, and also, really encouraging REALTORS® to actually do it. Craig Grant is the CEO of RETI.us, the real estate industry's online home for technology education. He's been a national technology speaker, educating us through many tech changes. He's a tremendous mentor for speakers and educators, and I have been the beneficiary of his wisdom over the years. This passion has led him to offer a Train the Trainer program and co-found the BEATS Alliance, promoting education for both the educator and education directors at associations.