
This Week In Digital Trust
Regular conversations about tech policy, privacy, cyber security, AI safety and everything in between.
This Week In Digital Trust is hosted by Arjun Ramachandran and Jordan Wilson-Otto, self-described technology enthusiasts with a passion for ensuring the use of technology leads to the best outcomes for humanity.
Arjun and Jordan are Principals at elevenM, a specialist AI, privacy, cyber security and data governance consultancy in Australia. Arjun is a strategic communications expert and former journalist. Jordan is an expert in privacy regulation, policy development and program management.
Latest episodes

Feb 6, 2024 • 28min
#95 Walk this way - a dive into the rise of biometrics
Ever wondered what can be inferred about you just from the way you walk? This might be a growing concern as the use of biometric technologies - which include solutions that offer "gait analysis" - become more common.
This week we explore how biometrics like fingerprints, faceprints and behavioural attributes are being used in different contexts, for purposes including identification, verification and analysis.
The convenience appeal of these technologies is hard to resist - as anyone with facial verification turned on for their smartphone can attest - but there are also an emerging set of social and policy concerns that need to be managed.
We discuss these concerns and the emerging regulatory approaches
Links:
Article about biometrics and Australia's Digital ID system (The Mandarin) https://www.themandarin.com.au/227256-dreyfus-faces-up-to-biometric-demands-of-digital-identity/
Article about Illinois Biometric Privacy Act https://rsmus.com/insights/services/risk-fraud-cybersecurity/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-illinois-biometric-privacy-act--.html
OAIC page on biometric scanning https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy/your-privacy-rights/surveillance-and-monitoring/biometric-scanning
OAIC finding against 7-Eleven over facial recognition https://www.oaic.gov.au/newsroom/oaic-finds-against-7-eleven-over-facial-recognition
CHOICE investigation into facial recognition at Australian stadiums https://www.choice.com.au/consumers-and-data/data-collection-and-use/how-your-data-is-used/articles/facial-recognition-in-stadiums
Credits:
Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au
Music by Bensound.com

Jan 29, 2024 • 29min
#94 Baby steps - the government makes its case for AI regulation
This week it's the next instalment of the Australian Government's consultation on Safe and Responsible AI. Arj and Jordan break down the government's 'interim response' to the consultation, and the case for regulation that it puts forward.
Though the detail is yet to come, we evaluate the government's proposals - new mandatory guardrails, updates to existing laws, international engagement and domestic investments - what will they mean for AI adoption in Australia, and is our legal system already falling behind?
Links:
The Australian Government’s interim response to safe and responsible AI consultation https://www.industry.gov.au/news/australian-governments-interim-response-safe-and-responsible-ai-consultation
Article on Gov response and reactions (SMH) https://www.smh.com.au/technology/husic-shuns-eu-path-for-ai-unveils-government-s-vision-20240116-p5exna.html
Prof. Ed Santow's response (AI expert and former Human Rights Commissioner) https://www.linkedin.com/posts/esantow_do-we-need-a-new-law-for-ai-sure-but-first-activity-7096667434794811392-hg_7/
US National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) AI Risk Management Framework https://www.nist.gov/itl/ai-risk-management-framework

Jan 22, 2024 • 24min
#93 Australians for sale - how data brokers expose us all
This week we dive into the murky world of data brokers, courtesy of a new report by Reset Tech Australia.
The report provides a fascinating window into how data brokers operate - particularly the granular categories and segments that online users are categorised into. This data is sold to advertisers and, in some cases, even law enforcement bodies and other authorities.
We share our reactions about the report and discuss how the availability of data about sensitive topics such as gambling, alcohol consumption, financial stress can make us more vulnerable to exploitation.
Links:
Report: Australians for Sale https://au.reset.tech/uploads/Reset.Tech-Report-Australians-for-Sale-2023.pdf
Article about Target working out a teen was pregnant (Forbes) https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/
Article about data broker selling data from Muslim prayer app (VICE) https://www.vice.com/en/article/epdkze/muslim-apps-location-data-military-xmode
Investigation into data brokers (The Markup) https://themarkup.org/privacy/2021/09/30/theres-a-multibillion-dollar-market-for-your-phones-location-data
Academic article defining 'online manipulation' (Susser, Roessler and Nissenbaum) https://policyreview.info/articles/analysis/technology-autonomy-and-manipulation
Credits:
Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au
Music by Bensound.com

Jan 16, 2024 • 26min
#92 Trust and safety: The most important tech job you’ve never heard of
This week we explore the world of trust and safety, those teams at digital platforms and other tech service providers entrusted with ensuring services are safe for users.
These teams have grown in size and influence over the past decade, in response to the growth in the use of social media as well as the emergence of challenges including mis- and disinformation and increasing hate speech.
But they’ve also come under fire - from ideological opponents who see them as biased censors, as well being the target of layoffs.
We unpack these issues and also explore the evolution and challenges associated with the profession.
Links:
Christine Lehane on what trust and safety involves (Medium) https://medium.com/@christinemlehane/a-career-in-trust-safety-you-know-more-than-you-know-3a02f63059a4
Trust and safety – the most important tech job you’ve never heard of (New Scientist) https://www.newscientist.com/article/2403999-trust-and-safety-the-most-important-tech-job-youve-never-heard-of/
Trust and safety on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_and_safety
Article on the impact of tech layoffs and understaffing outside the US https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/tech-layoffs-hit-trust-safety-teams-raising-fears-backsliding-efforts-rcna69111
What are the twitter files and why do they matter? (NPR) https://www.npr.org/2022/12/14/1142666067/elon-musk-is-using-the-twitter-files-to-discredit-foes-and-push-conspiracy-theor
The Techno-Optimist Manifesto (Andreessen Horowitz) https://a16z.com/the-techno-optimist-manifesto/
Welcome to hell Elon (The Verge) https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/28/23428132/elon-musk-twitter-acquisition-problems-speech-moderation
Interview with Twitter's former Head of Trust and Safety Del Harvey (Wired) https://www.wired.com/story/del-harvey-twitter-trust-and-safety-breaks-her-silence/

Dec 18, 2023 • 21min
#91 The 2023 debrief
In this year-end recap, the hosts reflect on the big conversation topics of the year including AI and privacy reform. They discuss the changing conversations about AI and express frustration about the slow progress of privacy regulation in Australia. They also express excitement for the future and the importance of diverse perspectives.

Dec 11, 2023 • 31min
#90 The human side of cybercrime - with Dr Jonathan Lusthaus
This week we explore the human side of cybercrime, via a conversation with Dr Jonathan Lusthaus, director of The Human Cybercriminal Project at the University of Oxford.
Jonathan (full bio below) has spent over a decade researching who cybercriminals are, what drives them, and how they organise themselves, collaborate and innovate.
We explore his findings – which he chronicled in his book Industry of Anonymity (link below) – and why he ultimately believes that the cybercrime industry is “a tragedy”.
Jonathan Lusthaus bio
Dr Jonathan Lusthaus is Director of The Human Cybercriminal Project at the University of Oxford. He is an Associate Professor in Global Sociology in the Department of Sociology, a joint appointment held with the Oxford School of Global and Area Studies. He is also a Governing Body Fellow of St Antony's College.
Jonathan’s research focuses on the "human" side of profit-driven cybercrime: who cybercriminals are and how they are organised. He is a regular speaker at major conferences and is the author of Industry of Anonymity: Inside the Business of Cybercrime published by Harvard University Press.
https://www.sociology.ox.ac.uk/people/jonathan-lusthaus#:~:text=Dr%20Jonathan%20Lusthaus%20is%20Director,Member%20of%20St%20Antony's%20College.
Links:
Book: Industry of Anonymity: Inside the Business of Cybercrime https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674979413
Newsletter: Industry of Anonymity, https://industryofanonymity.substack.com/
Book: Dark Market https://www.amazon.com.au/Darkmarket-Misha-Glenny/dp/0307476448
Credits:
Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au
Music by Bensound.com

Dec 4, 2023 • 33min
#89 Who's in charge here? The Altman/OpenAI saga explained
This podcast unravels the drama surrounding Sam Altman's firing and reinstatement at OpenAI, shedding light on AI safety approaches and self-governance in the tech community. It also delves into the US Government's executive order on safe and trustworthy AI, the UK government's AI Safety Summit, and concerns about the future of technology and AI regulation.

Nov 27, 2023 • 24min
#88 Bossware, solidarity and the fight for worker privacy
This week's podcast explores the lack of privacy protection for employees in Australia, the rise of surveillance tools in the workplace, the challenges of maintaining employee engagement in a hybrid work environment, and the importance of collective action in advocating for privacy rights.

Nov 20, 2023 • 28min
#87 Is it time to give up on privacy policies?
Tessa Loftus, privacy communications expert, joins the podcast to debate the effectiveness of privacy policies. They discuss the lack of reader engagement with privacy policies and the need for clearer communication. The limitations of fair and reasonable privacy laws are explored, highlighting the importance of clear and understandable policies. They advocate for including communication professionals in policy writing and emphasize the need for organizational accountability.

Nov 13, 2023 • 31min
#86 Johanna Weaver - the future of tech policy
Johanna Weaver, Director of the Tech Policy Design Centre at the Australian National University, discusses current tech policy challenges, the Australian approach to tech policy, and the Centre's work. They explore the mission of shaping technology for humanity, the importance of coordination in tech policy, and the activities of the centre in developing tech policy, including the tech policy atlas for AI regulation analysis.