
This Week In Digital Trust
Regular conversations about tech policy, privacy, cyber security, AI safety and everything in between.
This Week In Digital Trust is hosted by Arjun Ramachandran and Jordan Wilson-Otto, self-described technology enthusiasts with a passion for ensuring the use of technology leads to the best outcomes for humanity.
Arjun and Jordan are Principals at elevenM, a specialist AI, privacy, cyber security and data governance consultancy in Australia. Arjun is a strategic communications expert and former journalist. Jordan is an expert in privacy regulation, policy development and program management.
Latest episodes

Apr 23, 2024 • 28min
#105 Never mind Skynet, the algorithms are already in control
News feeds, search results, directions across town, even job or rental applications - opaque algorithms determine an increasingly large proportion of our lives.
In the US, the Federal Trade Commission is going after landlords for using algorithms to illegally fix rental prices.
Back home, a secret algorithm determines how detainees in immigration detention are treated.
Through the lens of these two recent news stories, we explore the consequences of an increasingly algorithmically determined world and how algorithms can provide a false air of objectivity, giving cover for bad behaviour, bias or other errors.
Links:
FTC statement on price fixing by algorithm https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2024/03/price-fixing-algorithm-still-price-fixing
Guardian article about algorithmic risk-ratings for Serco immigration detainees https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/ng-interactive/2024/mar/13/serco-australia-immigration-detention-network-srat-tool-risk-rating-ntwnfb
ACCC v Trivago - misleading customers about their ranking algorithm https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/trivago-to-pay-447-million-in-penalties-for-misleading-consumers-over-hotel-room-rates
Rod Sims 2017 speech on algorithms https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/new-competition-laws-a-protection-against-big-data-e-collusion
Comments on ADM by NSW OMbudsman (InnovationAus) https://www.innovationaus.com/automated-decisioning-sweeps-across-nsw-govt/
CHOICE report on RentTech in Australia https://www.choice.com.au/consumers-and-data/data-collection-and-use/how-your-data-is-used/articles/choice-renttech-report-release
Algorithmic bias in sentencing (Pro Publica) https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessments-in-criminal-sentencing
Credits:
Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au
Music by Bensound.com

Apr 15, 2024 • 28min
#104 Rotten to the core? DOJ lines up Apple
This week we break down the US Department of Justice's suit against Apple, claiming the tech giant is engaging in unlawful behaviour.
In particular we examine the DOJ's charge that Apple has long justified anti-competitive behaviour on the basis of claims about better privacy and security.
The suit raises interesting questions about the the tradeoffs between privacy and competition, and the best way to regulate tech platforms.
Links:DOJ filing https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-apple-monopolizing-smartphone-marketsArticle summarising the DOJ's suit (The Verge) https://www.theverge.com/24107581/doj-v-apple-antitrust-monoply-news-updatesArticle about the security benefits of Apple's approach (The Verge) https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/2/24107719/iphone-security-apple-doj-monopoly-antitrust-lawsuitArticle about "green bubble stigma" (NPR) https://www.npr.org/2024/03/28/1241473453/why-green-text-bubble-stigma-is-part-of-the-anti-trust-case-against-appleStrategy Credit (Stratechery) https://stratechery.com/2013/strategy-credit/Article about Apple telling Jon Stewart not to interview Lina Khan (Guardian) https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/apr/02/jon-stewart-interview-lina-khan-apple
Credits:Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.auMusic by Bensound.com

Apr 8, 2024 • 28min
#103 App for sale? Tiktok faces US ban
This week on the podcast we analyse a US plan to force TikTok owner ByteDance to divest or sell the platform, or be banned from US platforms.
The move - strongly supported by the US House of Representatives - follows years of proposed plans and attempts to ban TikTok in various ways.
We unpack the concerns about the wildly popular social media platform, and explore criticisms of the ban ranging from its likely ineffectiveness in preventing Chinese data collection to the claims of hypocrisy.
Links:
Article about US Congress bill to force divesture of TikTok (Guardian) https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/mar/13/house-passes-tiktok-bill-ban#:~:text=The%20House%20of%20Representatives%20passed,favor%20and%20only%2065%20against.
Article about analysts describing China's proposed intent to reshape global public opinion (AFR) https://www.afr.com/world/asia/tiktok-can-radically-reshape-global-opinion-security-adviser-warns-20231205-p5ep6l
Article about data brokers bill (Politico) https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/26/biden-administration-tiktok-data-practices-00149139?mkt_tok=MTM4LUVaTS0wNDIAAAGSH9l90fDDEaaVJnu43JPpYnTR2PTq3r16bfNsLEfeJITr9Y4MMkdVK2rkw39S1p4RdnPoj7bTixTwQnshW3r5rIHnKurST3jfuv-_ovReTx94
Article sceptical of impact of TikTok ban (Scientific American) https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tiktok-ban-data-privacy-security/Samantha Floreani oped on TikTok ban (Guardian) https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/20/the-tiktok-ban-moral-panic-usa-senate-protect-us-tech-hegemony-china
The German tongue twister song that's been all over Jordan's TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@colortalkcreations/video/7339989417165163809
Credits:
Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au
Music by Bensound.com

Mar 25, 2024 • 25min
#102 It's complicated - Dr James Meese on Meta's withdrawal from news
This week Jordan asks Dr James Meese to explain Meta's announcement that it doesn’t intend to renew the commercial deals it made with Australian media companies under the News Media Bargaining Code.
Dr Meese (full bio below) is an Associate Professor at RMIT University, where he researches personalisation and recommendation in the news media sector and has recently published a book examining the complex relationship between Digital Platforms and the Press (link below).
James talks us through some of the history and the limits of the News Media Bargaining Code, how algorithms and platform dynamics have impacted news, and the policy challenges of ensuring a sustainable future for journalism.
James Meese Bio
James Meese is an Associate Professor at RMIT University and an Associate Investigator with the ARC Centre of Excellence for Automated Decision Making and Society. He has been awarded a Future Fellowship from the Australian Research Council to investigate personalisation and recommendation in the news media sector. James has received research funding from the Australian Research Council, Meta, the International Association of Privacy Professionals and the Australian Communications Consumer Action Network. He regularly publishes work in leading media and communication journals and his most recent book is Digital Platforms and the Press (Intellect).
Links
Digital Platforms and the Press (James' excellent book - available for free online) https://www.intellectbooks.com/digital-platforms-and-the-press
Facebook's withdrawal from news (The Verge) https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/29/24087220/facebook-news-tab-united-states-australia
Credits:
Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au
Music by Bensound.com

Mar 19, 2024 • 25min
#101 Go dark or go home - Unscrambling the encryption debate
** Content warning: This episode contains discussion of Child Sexual Abuse Material **
Australia's eSafety Commissioner is trying to force tech giants to scan cloud storage for illegal and harmful content. Apple says this could undermine security protections and facilitate mass surveillance.
This is just the latest skirmish in the crypto wars - a 50 year old policy debate about how to balance strong encryption (which is essential to privacy and security online) with law enforcement access to crucial data.
This week we explore some of the policy and rhetorical challenges that arise when trying to debate these competing objectives.
Links:
Article on Apple's criticism of eSafety's proposed standards (InnovationAus) https://www.innovationaus.com/apple-warns-against-mass-file-scanning-proposal/
An old but good breakdown of some common crypto wars rhetoric (The Verge) https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/12/10749806/encryption-debate-fbi-terrorism-going-dark
Criticism of Malcolm Turnbull's laws of mathematics gaffe (Electronic Frontier Foundation) https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/07/australian-pm-calls-end-end-encryption-ban-says-laws-mathematics-dont-apply-down
Credits:
Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au
Music by Bensound.com

Mar 11, 2024 • 33min
#100 Reflections on 100 - the lessons that popped
To mark 100 episodes, this week we reflect on the topics covered on This Week in Digital Trust since its inception.
Arj and Jordan also share four key insights and learnings that have emerged through their discussions, and how these have shaped (and are shaped) their world views.
If you'd like to share some feedback with us, we'd love to hear it. https://forms.office.com/r/6HxEztcC85
Credits:Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.auMusic by Bensound.com

Mar 4, 2024 • 27min
#99 Supermarket wizards - How tech entrenches dominance
Supermarkets have been under intense scrutiny in Australia over a range of issues, including alleged profiteering in a cost of living crisis, and poor treatment of workers and suppliers.
In this episode, we explore how the use of advanced technologies and digital platforms by the two supermarket majors may be contributing to these issues, and further entrenching market dominance.
Links:
Four Corners investigation https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-19/super-power-the-cost-of-living-with-coles-and-woolworths/103486508
The Conversation piece on surveillance tech at Coles and Woolworths https://theconversation.com/the-secret-sauce-of-coles-and-woolworths-profits-high-tech-surveillance-and-control-224076
The Conversation piece on Coles deal with Palantir https://theconversation.com/solving-the-supermarket-why-coles-just-hired-us-defence-contractor-palantir-222883
Monash Business School study on cost of living, consumer sentiment and shoplifting https://lens.monash.edu/@business-economy/2023/09/25/1386156/cost-of-living-shoplifting-surge-aussies-pushed-to-the-limit
Academic article about 'refractive surveillance' https://ijoc.org/index.php/ijoc/article/view/7041
Credits:Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au
Music by Bensound.com

Feb 26, 2024 • 27min
#98 Droppin' docs - A primer on doxing
This week we go deep on doxing, the practice of "dropping docs" on someone in order to expose their information to a hostile digital audience.
Our conversation is triggered by some recent doxing examples in the Australian media, which has prompted the Federal Government to propose a new law against dxxing as part of its privacy reform agenda.
We discuss the origins of doxing, prominent examples, the potential harms, and the merits of various public policy approaches.
Links:
Explainer on doxing (eSafety Commissioner) https://www.esafety.gov.au/industry/tech-trends-and-challenges/doxingArticle about proposed Australian laws (SMH) https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/doxxers-on-notice-they-will-face-jail-time-under-new-laws-20240216-p5f5ha.htmlArticle about Elon Musk's doxing claim (APNews) https://apnews.com/article/elon-musk-technology-business-5bf13ebcd0bfa4995099bb44c72da944Article about US abortion providers being doxed (Reuters) https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL8N39E8D3/#:~:text=%22The%20records%20are%20published%20on,%2C%22%20said%20Hecht%2DFelella.Gamergate explainer (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_(harassment_campaign)Article about Oliver Sipple and doxing in general (WIRED https://www.wired.com/2012/10/truth-lies-doxxing-internet-vigilanteism/Radiolab podcast about Oliver Sipple https://radiolab.org/podcast/oliver-sippleOsman Faruqi article on his doxing experience (ABC) https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-22/doxxing-the-new-weapon-of-choice-for-trolls/10833428Writeup on statutory tort for serious invasion of privacy (Law Council) https://lawcouncil.au/media/media-releases/law-council-supports-statutory-tort-for-serious-invasion-of-privacyArticle on Hong Kong anti-doxxing law (ABC) https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-30/hong-kong-doxxing-laws-pass-legislature/100502260
Hackers (IMDB) https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0113243/
Credits:Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.auMusic by Bensound.com

Feb 19, 2024 • 28min
#97 The rise of the Neo Luddites
In the face of tech and AI hype, there's an emerging march away from technology taking place around the globe.
This week we explore recent developments fitting this trend, including a proposed law in Australia that give will employees a "right to disconnect" from work, and another that seeks to improve conditions for gig workers.
We also take a deep dive into the resurgence of the Luddite movement - a cohort of workers, critics, academics, organisers and writers who claim they are pushing back on technologies that exploit the vulnerable and extract the rewards of society for the benefit of a narrow elite.
Links:
Article about right to disconnect (SMH) https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/what-is-the-right-to-disconnect-a-bluffer-s-guide-to-the-new-laws-about-getting-contacted-after-hours-20240207-p5f32b.html
Article about right to disconnect and gig worker changes (ABC News) https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-06/right-to-disconnect-from-work-other-changes/103433418
Article on reaction to right to disconnect (ABC News) https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-11/peter-dutton-vows-repeal-right-to-disconnect/103453148
Australia Institute report on overtime and the right to disconnect in Australia https://australiainstitute.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Call-Me-Maybe-Not-2022-WEB.pdf
Atlantic article on rise of New Luddites (Atlantic) https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/02/new-luddites-ai-protest/677327/
Wikipedia article on Luddites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite#:~:text=The%20name%20Luddite%20(%2F%CB%88l,%2C%20General%2C%20or%20King%20Ludd.
Article by Jathan Sadowski on Luddites (The Conversation) https://theconversation.com/im-a-luddite-you-should-be-one-too-163172
Podcast: This Machine Kills https://soundcloud.com/thismachinekillspod
Credits:
Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au
Music by Bensound.com

Feb 13, 2024 • 28min
#96 Make it till you fake it - the growing problem of synthetic media
With more than 60 elections taking place around the world this year, the risks posed by deepfakes was already a bubbling concern - until Taylor Swift took the issue stratospheric. Deepfake explicit images of the US musician created by generative AI went viral on X, prompting officials and analysts to start to properly reckon with the problems posed by the technology.
We explore the scenarios in which synthetic media created by generative AI are posing problems, the way platforms like OpenAI are responding, emerging regulatory responses, and discuss where responsiblity for solving this issue truly lies.
Links:
Article about Taylor Swift AI deepfakes on X (The Verge) https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/27/24052841/taylor-swift-search-blocked-x-twitter-ai-images
Article about altered image of Victorian MP (ABC News) https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-01/georgie-purcell-ai-image-nine-news-apology-digital-ethics/103408440OpenAI's response to Gen AI abuse https://openai.com/blog/how-openai-is-approaching-2024-worldwide-electionsArticle about lawmaker response to Taylor Swift deepfakes (The Verge) https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/30/24056385/congress-defiance-act-proposed-ban-nonconsensual-ai-pornDEFIANCE Act https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/releases/durbin-graham-klobuchar-hawley-introduce-defiance-act-to-hold-accountable-those-responsible-for-the-proliferation-of-nonconsensual-sexually-explicit-deepfake-images-and-videos?ref=popsugar.com&=___psv__p_49334216__t_w_Popsugar article on the Taylor Swift Deepfakes https://www.popsugar.com/tech/ai-deepfakes-taylor-swift-sexual-harassment-49334216
Link for reporting online harm to esafety commission https://www.esafety.gov.au/report
Credits:
Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au
Music by Bensound.com