Scaling Laws
Lawfare & University of Texas Law School
Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the ones that are top of mind for tech-savvy law and policy students. Co-hosts Alan Rozenshtein, Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas and Senior Editor at Lawfare, dive into the intersection of AI, innovation policy, and the law through regular interviews with the folks deep in the weeds of developing, regulating, and adopting AI. They also provide regular rapid-response analysis of breaking AI governance news. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Episodes
Mentioned books
Aug 19, 2025 • 54min
Export Controls: Janet Egan, Sam Winter-Levy, and Peter Harrell on the White House's Semiconductor Decision
Peter Harrell, former senior director for international economics at the White House, Janet Egan, senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, and Sam Winter-Levy, fellow at Carnegie, delve into the recent export controls on AI semiconductors to China. They discuss the implications of allowing companies like Nvidia to export advanced chips, the constitutional legality of export taxes, and the strategic risks to international coalitions. The conversation highlights the tension between national security and the global tech race.
5 snips
Aug 14, 2025 • 58min
Navigating AI Policy: Dean Ball on Insights from the White House
Dean Ball, former Senior Policy Advisor for AI at the White House, shares his insider perspective on the Trump administration's AI Action Plan. He discusses the challenges of federal AI policy-making and the clash between conservatism and techno-libertarianism. The conversation highlights the need for thoughtful regulatory frameworks and proactive governance. Ball outlines essential steps for America to lead in AI, including regulatory innovation and workforce development, while reflecting on his future aspirations in AI policy at a D.C. think tank.
Aug 12, 2025 • 47min
The Legal Maze of AI Liability: Anat Lior on Bridging Law and Emerging Tech
In this episode, we talk about the intricate world of AI liability through the lens of agency law. Join us as Anat Lior explores the compelling case for using agency law to address the legal challenges posed by AI agents. Discover how analogies, such as principal-agent relationships, can help navigate the complexities of AI liability, and why it's crucial to ensure that someone is held accountable when AI systems cause harm. Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion on the future of AI governance and the evolving landscape of legal responsibility. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Aug 7, 2025 • 50min
Values in AI: Safety, Ethics, and Innovation with OpenAI's Brian Fuller
Brian Fuller, a product policy leader at OpenAI, discusses the pressing need for ethical AI policies that prioritize safety and societal benefit. He shares insights on balancing innovation with ethical responsibility amidst the rapidly evolving AI landscape. The conversation touches on engaging diverse community values in AI development and the ethical implications of data labeling practices. Fuller candidly reflects on the complexities of navigating AI risks and the importance of stakeholder collaboration in shaping responsible technology.
Aug 5, 2025 • 47min
Because of Woke: Renée DiResta and Alan Rozenshtein on the ‘Woke AI’ Executive Order
Renée DiResta, an Associate Research Professor at the McCourt School of Public Policy at Georgetown join Alan Rozenshtein and Kevin Frazier, to take a look at the Trump Administration’s Woke AI policies, as set forth by a recent EO and explored in the AI Action Plan. This episode unpacks the implications of prohibiting AI models that fail to pursue objective truth and espouse "DEI" values. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Jul 31, 2025 • 59min
Moving the AGI Goal Posts: AI Skepticism with Sayash Kapoor
Sayash Kapoor, co-author of 'AI Snake Oil', dives deep into the skepticism surrounding AGI claims and the complexities of AI adoption. He discusses how misaligned benchmarks fail to reflect real-world skills necessary in various sectors. Kapoor highlights the transformative potential of AI and the urgent need for informed policies amidst rapid militarization and evolving workforce dynamics. He advocates for regulatory humility, emphasizing that well-intentioned laws can have unexpected consequences. A nuanced understanding of AI's capabilities and limitations is essential for shaping its future.
Jul 30, 2025 • 56min
A New AI Regulatory Regime? SB 813 with Lauren Wagner and Andrew Freedman
Andrew Freedman, Chief Strategy Officer at Fathom, and Lauren Wagner from the Abundance Institute join the discussion on AI regulation. They delve into the urgent need for effective governance frameworks like California's Senate Bill 813. Topics include innovative approaches to AI safety, the significance of independent verification organizations, and the crucial role of public-private partnerships. The conversation also highlights challenges in regulatory implementation and the importance of collaboration to ensure accountability in AI technologies.
Jul 24, 2025 • 1h 3min
AI Action Plan: Janet Egan, Jessica Brandt, Neil Chilson, and Tim Fist
Join AI experts Janet Egan and Jessica Brandt, along with Neil Chilson and Tim Fist, as they dissect the newly released AI Action Plan. They discuss the interplay between innovation and risk management, emphasizing the need for streamlined regulations to foster AI adoption across various sectors. The conversation dives into cybersecurity challenges, the geopolitical implications of AI diplomacy, and the importance of developing a skilled workforce to support rapid technological advancements. Don't miss their insights on balancing national security with innovation!
Jul 22, 2025 • 56min
Lt. Gen Jack Shanahan: Defense's AI Integration
Lt. Gen. (ret) Jack Shanahan joins Kevin Frazier to explore the nuanced landscape of AI in national security. Challenging the prevalent "AI arms race" narrative. The discussion delves into the complexities of AI integration in defense, the cultural shifts required within the Department of Defense, and the critical role of public trust and shared national vision. Tune in to understand how AI is reshaping military strategies and the broader implications for society. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Jul 17, 2025 • 58min
Eugene Volokh: Navigating Libel and Liability in the AI Age
Kevin Frazier brings Eugene Volokh, a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and UCLA law professor, to explore the complexities of libel in the age of AI. Discover how AI-generated content challenges traditional legal frameworks and the implications for platforms under Section 230. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the evolving landscape of AI and law. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
