Scaling Laws

David Sullivan, Executive Director of the Digital Trust & Safety Partnership, and Rayi Iyer, Managing Director of the Psychology of Technology Institute at USC’s Neely Center, join join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the evolution of the Trust & Safety field and its relevance to ongoing conversations about how best to govern AI.   They discuss the importance of thinking about the end user in regulation, debate the differences and similarities between social media and AI companions, and evaluate current policy proposals. You’ll “like” (bad pun intended) this one. Leo Wu provided excellent research assistance to prepare for this podcast. Read more from David:https://www.weforum.org/stories/2025/08/safety-product-build-better-bots/https://www.techpolicy.press/learning-from-the-past-to-shape-the-future-of-digital-trust-and-safety/ Read more from Ravi:https://shows.acast.com/arbiters-of-truth/episodes/ravi-iyer-on-how-to-improve-technology-through-designhttps://open.substack.com/pub/psychoftech/p/regulate-value-aligned-design-not?r=2alyy0&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false  Read more from Kevin:https://www.cato.org/blog/california-chatroom-ab-1064s-likely-constitutional-overreach Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this Scaling Laws rapid response episode, hosts Kevin Frazier and Alan Rozenshtein talk about SB-53, the frontier AI transparency (and more) law that California Governor Gavin Newsom signed into law on September 29. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Neil Chilson, Head of AI Policy at the Abundance Institute, and Gus Hurwitz, Senior Fellow at Penn Carey Law, dive into the challenges of AI governance. They discuss the muddled state of AI policy and the reactions driven by past regulatory mistakes. The duo critiques academic selection biases that skew tech policy debates, while exploring the need for engineers to understand legal complexities. They call for interdisciplinary collaboration in education and emphasize the importance of hands-on AI experience to inform better regulations.

In this engaging discussion, Renee DiResta, an expert in information operations, and Jess Miers, a technology law scholar, dive into the mental health risks generative AI poses for children. They highlight how chatbots can amplify mental health issues and the critical role of media literacy and parental involvement. The conversation also touches on the recent developments in AI safety, the implications of proposed age verification measures, and ongoing legal battles, providing a comprehensive look at the future of AI regulation.

Pam Samuelson, the Richard M. Sherman Distinguished Professor of Law at UC Berkeley, specializes in copyright law and AI's legal implications. She discusses recent court rulings like Bartz v. Anthropic, probing whether training AI on copyrighted material constitutes fair use. The conversation highlights the balance between protecting creators' rights and promoting innovation, while also exploring the transformative nature of AI outputs. Key cases like Warhol vs. Goldsmith are examined for their impact on copyright law, making this a must-listen for anyone interested in the future of intellectual property.

Joshua Gans, a professor at the University of Toronto and co-author of "Power and Prediction," discusses the complexities of AI-induced job displacement. He analyzes how recent regulations, like updates to New York's WARN Act, impact transparency in layoffs. Gans speculates on AI's influence on entry-level jobs and emphasizes the essential human skills still needed in an AI-driven world. He advocates for adaptable AI regulations that foster innovation while addressing ethical concerns, ultimately revealing the nuanced dynamics of technology and employment.

Steven Adler, a former OpenAI safety researcher and author of Clear-Eyed AI, joins Kevin Frazier to dive into AI safety. They explore the importance of pre-deployment safety measures and the challenges of ensuring trust in AI systems. Adler emphasizes the critical need for international cooperation in tackling AI threats, especially amid U.S.-China tensions. He discusses how commercial pressures have transformed OpenAI's safety culture and stresses the necessity of rigorous risk assessment as AI technologies continue to evolve.

Anu Bradford, a Columbia Law School professor renowned for her insights on the Brussels Effect, and Kate Klonick, a Lawfare senior editor who specializes in content moderation, dive into the tumultuous world of Big Tech regulation. They contrast the EU’s progressive AI Act and its global influence with the US's interventionist stance on tech. The duo explores the geopolitical ramifications of these differing approaches, including the EU's challenges in technological sovereignty and the ongoing US-China tech rivalry, shedding light on the future landscape of digital governance.

Peter E. Harrell, an Adjunct Senior Fellow at the Center for a New American Security, joins Kevin Frazier to discuss the White House taking a 10% stake in Intel. They analyze the policy rationale and legality behind this move and consider its implications for the semiconductor industry. The conversation dives into the CHIPS Act, historical precedents of government interventions, and the complexities of federal authority in corporate equity transactions. They also address concerns over government favoritism and the impact on competition with other tech giants like NVIDIA.

MacKenzie Price, co-founder of Alpha School, advocates for personalized learning with AI, discussing innovative classroom practices. Rebecca Winthrop of the Brookings Institution shares global efforts and challenges in integrating AI into education. They dive into the balance of data privacy and educational benefits, exploring technology's impact on student engagement, particularly in under-resourced areas. With nuanced perspectives on generative AI, they call for collaborative approaches to enhance learning while mitigating risks.