Shashank Joshi, a Defense editor at The Economist renowned for his Ukraine coverage, teams up with Michael Horowitz, a Penn professor and former defense official specializing in AI. They delve into Ukraine's battlefield prospects, debating political cohesion and defense capacity. The discussion turns to Trump's shifting stance on Putin and its implications. They also explore how AI, particularly through 'precise mass' tactics, revolutionizes modern warfare. The pair emphasize the incremental nature of AI advancements in combat and the enduring challenges in defense innovation.