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The Tim Ferriss Show
#145: The Interview Master: Cal Fussman and the Power of Listening
Mar 11, 2016
03:14:33
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Quick takeaways
- Embrace spontaneity and curiosity to fuel transformative adventures and storytelling techniques.
- Approach interviews as casual conversations to unveil hidden facets and richness of individual narratives.
- Evolve interviewing techniques by portraying subjects authentically and revealing the essence of human narratives.
- Reflect on and embrace immersive experiences to catalyze a transformative shift in interview dynamics.
- Craft captivating narratives by blending spontaneity of train dialogues with insights from celebrity conversations.
Deep dives
Transformative Discoveries on the Ten-Year Journey
Embarking on a ten-year journey across various places, the speaker experiences a series of adventures fueled by spontaneity and curiosity. Initially immersing in diverse cultures and forming connections with strangers, the traveler gains insights into the power of asking questions and allowing individuals to share their life stories openly. The unique encounters along the way shape the speaker's storytelling abilities, setting the foundation for future interviews with celebrated personalities.
Unveiling Deep Insights Through Casual Encounters
Transitioning from spontaneous travels to interviewing renowned figures, the speaker adopts a conversational approach akin to engaging with strangers on trains. By treating interviews as casual conversations, the speaker unveils hidden facets of personalities such as Robert De Niro or Woody Allen. Drawing from the essence of personal exchanges, the speaker encapsulates the richness of each individual's narrative.
Evolving Interview Techniques with Renowned Personalities
The journey from train conversations to engaging with eminent personalities like movie stars or presidents revolutionizes the speaker's approach to interviews. With a focus on portraying subjects authentically, the speaker leverages the intimacy of train interactions to reveal surprising aspects of well-known figures. This evolution in interviewing techniques underscores a deep understanding of human narratives.
Cruise Experience Sparks Reflective Shift in Approach
A pivotal moment on a cruise ship summit at sea catalyzes a reflective shift in the speaker's interview methodology. Stepping out of their comfort zone onto a cruise filled with entrepreneurial minds, the speaker embraces a fresh perspective on engaging with diverse individuals. This transformative encounter prompts a reconsideration of interview dynamics, highlighting the impact of immersive experiences on storytelling.
Rich Storytelling Methodology Cultivated Through Varied Encounters
Immersing in a transformative journey encompassing train conversations, high-profile interviews, and unexpected cruise experiences, the speaker refines a storytelling methodology rooted in authentic interactions. By blending the spontaneity of train dialogues with insights from celebrity conversations, the speaker crafts narratives that captivate audiences and unveil the essence of human connection. This eclectic storytelling approach underscores the speaker's ability to extract profound insights from diverse encounters.
George Foreman's Transformation
George Foreman, the former heavyweight boxing champion, represented a symbol of success through his transformative journey. From his overpowering and surly persona in the boxing ring against Muhammad Ali in Zaire, to his change in character in his forties, Foreman demonstrated the utmost challenge of changing one's character to achieve success. This change allowed him to come back to the boxing arena, where at the age of 45, he faced a formidable opponent in Michael Moorer, a younger and quicker southpaw. By exerting minimal energy and strategically using his power, Foreman secured a victory, revealing the power of character transformation in attaining success.
Between the World and Me by Ta-Nehisi Coates
The book 'Between the World and Me' by Ta-Nehisi Coates is a powerful work that offers essential insights on race in America. Written as a letter to Coates' son, it delves into the experience of being a black male in America and provides a poignant reflection on identity, systemic racism, and the challenges faced by African Americans. Coates' candid and thought-provoking narrative serves as a vital piece of literature for understanding the complexities of race relations and the African American experience in the United States.
Gifted Books for High School Seniors
If a board millionaire aimed to gift three books to every graduating high school senior, 'Between the World and Me' by Ta-Nehisi Coates would offer invaluable insights into race, identity, and American society. Additionally, 'Speak Like Churchill, Stand Like Lincoln' presents a compelling guide for effective communication and leadership inspired by historical figures. These books collectively provide educational and thought-provoking content that can enrich the lives and perspectives of young individuals embarking on their academic and personal journeys.
Memorable Story from Ronald Reagan's Speech Techniques
The podcast reflects on a story from Ronald Reagan's early experiences in radio where he struggled with reading ads on air. After being fired, Reagan learned to memorize phrases and speak conversationally by breaking down his speeches into smaller segments. This technique of glancing at words, memorizing, and looking up before speaking helped him captivate audiences and succeed in his career.
Impactful Advice from a Writer's Block Experience
The speaker shares a personal story about overcoming writer's block by recalling advice from a writer named Harry Crews. Crews's words 'the good shit sticks' resonated with the speaker, reminding him of the lasting impact of significant moments. Despite struggling for years to write a wine story, a chance encounter sparked a new perspective, leading to the creation of a compelling piece titled 'Drinking at 1300 Feet.' This story emphasizes the power of meaningful experiences in inspiring creative output.
This episode is very special to me and features a verbal Jedi who never gets interviewed himself: Cal Fussman. Cal (@calfussman) is a New York Times bestselling author and a writer-at-large for Esquire Magazine, where he is best known for being a primary writer of the “What I Learned” feature. The Austin Chronicle has described Cal's interviewing skills as "peerless." He has transformed oral history into an art form, conducting probing interviews with the icons who’ve shaped the last 50 years of world history: Mikhail Gorbachev, Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy, Jeff Bezos, Richard Branson, Jack Welch, Robert DeNiro, Clint Eastwood, Al Pacino, George Clooney, Leonardo DiCaprio, Tom Hanks, Bruce Springsteen, Dr. Dre, Quincy Jones, Woody Allen, Barbara Walters, Pelé, Yao Ming, Serena Williams, John Wooden, Muhammad Ali, and countless others. Born in Brooklyn, Cal spent 10 straight years traveling the world, swimming over 18-foot tiger sharks, rolling around with mountain gorillas in Rwanda, and searching for gold in the Amazon. He has also made himself a guinea pig — Cal has boxed against world champion Julio Cesar Chavez and served as a sommelier atop of the World Trade Center. He now lives with his wife—whom he met while on a quest to discover the world’s most beautiful beach—and his three children in Los Angeles, where he spends every morning eating breakfast with Larry King. Show notes and links for this episode can be found at www.fourhourworkweek.com/podcast. This podcast is brought to you by Audible. I have used Audible for years and I love audio books. I have two to recommend: The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman Vagabonding by Rolf Potts All you need to do to get your free 30-day Audible trial is go to Audible.com/Tim. Choose one of the above books, or choose between more than 180,000 audio programs. That could be a book, a newspaper, a magazine, or even a class. It's that easy. Go to Audible.com/Tim and get started today. Enjoy! This podcast is also brought to you by Wealthfront. Wealthfront is a massively disruptive (in a good way) set-it-and-forget-it investing service, led by technologists from places like Apple. It has exploded in popularity in the last two years and now has more than $2.5B under management. Why? Because you can get services previously limited to the ultra-wealthy and only pay pennies on the dollar for them, and it’s all through smarter software instead of retail locations and bloated sales teams. Check out wealthfront.com/tim, take their risk assessment quiz, which only takes 2-5 minutes, and they’ll show you—for free–exactly the portfolio they’d put you in. If you want to just take their advice and do it yourself, you can. Well worth a few minutes to explore: wealthfront.com/tim.
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Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, and many more.
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