The Timfer Show - Cal Fusman - Author and Writer at Large

Speaker 1
Many
Speaker 2
of us have had that experience where you you try something like, for instance, i tried meditation a few years back, and i could never really get into it. I had that should, that i should meditate, anda ye. Didn't feel a good man. And now, after having done the emotional excavation, all of a sudden it's really fun to meditate. It's not a a drag. It's actually pleasurable to do that. That's right. It's the same thing, but different times. Ri, yes.
Speaker 1
And also different approaches, right? So probably before you were meditating as a way to manage yourself, and now you're meditating is a way to explort yourself. And managing is js not very nexploration is quite fun. You know where one is like, no, i shouldn't be this way. I should be this way. That's, that's not mededition. That's ean torsur. That's horrible. At's right?
Speaker 2
S coolman. So, can ii, if i, if you don't mind me asking, what i'd be curious if you went through d paces, or how you went through them, the the a, getting stuck in little self, or if you got into too expansive druelling and not doing anything. And also, i'm curious about your, your current phenomonology. Would you say you walk around and in kind of a non dual, not feeling like a self kind of state? Or is that something you oscillate in and out of? Or if you don't mind, i don't mind, yes.
Speaker 1
So you have two questions in there. So, so, i mean, to explain every moment of transition in my life would be, you know, notan hour, ten hours. So i'll stick to the non dual thing. So for for me, the it worked like so, i was lucky in the fact that i did both the emotional work, unknowingly, did the emotional work and the non, what would be called nondul work simultaneously. And and so the moment of seeing that i was one with everything was, i was, like, it occurred, and i was like, i was in a bathroom at a retreat, and and i was like, oh, there's another phenomenon. And it was just a non issue. It was just like, oh, another peake experience. I've had many of those. I'm not chased. Rii. And it wasn't till, like, maybe a month later, and there's a word for this that i've heard used, is called, like, the the fog walkers, where they just don't even recognize that the thing that they've been after for years has happened. And, right? And then all of a sudden i was like, wowt the voice in my head is just, like, it's so quiet, and the sense of self has chang. It took me wa to recognize what the hell had happened. Am, which was fascinating to me. And so i didn't really, i didn't go to either of those two places. I was very lucky. I went there very, in very short order. I remember, when i was going t the bathroom and this happened, the first thought was like, oh, i am like, the question was, what am i? Which i'd been asking myself for a decade, right at ten times a day. For a decade, i'd been in that question. And then the response was, oh, it was just like, oh, i am that. I can't remember exactly whas, but it was a clear, just clear, clear as day, that i i am everything and nothing. And and then this is where my great fortune was ast. Right after that, the voice said, and this never ends, and the, the evolution never ends. An so that was my, my fortune.

#145: The Interview Master: Cal Fussman and the Power of Listening

The Tim Ferriss Show

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