Maya Shankar, a former Senior Advisor in the Obama White House and a leading voice in behavioral economics at Google, explores the nuances of dealing with uncertainty. She discusses why human beings struggle with change and the pitfalls of seeking cognitive closure. Maya emphasizes the importance of maintaining an open mindset and how embracing flexibility can enhance resilience. Personal stories of transformation, including her own journey from musician to scientist, offer insights into navigating life's unpredictable transitions.
59:30
forum Ask episode
web_stories AI Snips
view_agenda Chapters
menu_book Books
auto_awesome Transcript
info_circle Episode notes
question_answer ANECDOTE
Violinist to Cognitive Scientist
Maya Shankar's career as a violinist ended due to a hand injury at 15.
This led her to discover cognitive science through Steven Pinker's book, "The Language Instinct."
insights INSIGHT
Power of Defaults
The government used behavioral science to auto-enroll low-income kids in a lunch program.
By changing it from opt-in to opt-out, 12.5 million more kids ate lunch.
insights INSIGHT
Why We Dislike Uncertainty
Humans dislike uncertainty, preferring certainty of a bad outcome over the unknown.
Change is hard because it threatens our identities, leading to feelings of insecurity.
Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode
Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness
Richard H. Thaler
Cass R. Sunstein
In 'Nudge,' Thaler and Sunstein argue that by understanding how people think, we can design 'choice architectures' that nudge people toward better decisions for themselves, their families, and society. The book introduces the concept of 'libertarian paternalism,' where gentle nudges guide people toward beneficial choices without limiting their freedom. It explores various aspects of human decision-making, including the distinction between the 'Automatic System' and the 'Reflective System' of thinking, and provides numerous examples of how nudges can be applied in real-life scenarios to improve outcomes in health, finance, and other areas[1][3][5].
The Language Instinct
How the Mind Creates Language
Steven Pinker
In this book, Steven Pinker argues that language is an innate human ability, produced by evolution to solve the problem of communication among social hunter-gatherers. He explains how language works, how children learn it, how it changes, and how the brain computes it. Pinker refutes common ideas such as the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis and the notion that language is a human invention. He supports his argument with examples from linguistics, psychology, and popular culture, emphasizing that language is a specialized 'mental module' rather than a mark of advanced intelligence. The book also includes updates on advances in the science of language since its initial publication.
Stumbling on Happiness
Daniel Gilbert
In 'Stumbling on Happiness,' Daniel Gilbert delves into the human capacity to imagine the future and why we are often poor at predicting what will make us happy. Gilbert argues that our imagination is flawed in several ways: it adds or removes details, extrapolates from the present, and fails to account for the psychological immune system that helps us cope with undesired outcomes. The book uses scientific research from psychology, cognitive neuroscience, and behavioral economics to explain why we consistently misjudge our future satisfaction and how this affects our decisions. Gilbert also suggests that understanding these biases can help us make better choices and gain more control over our pursuit of happiness.
New episodes come out every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday for free, with 1-week early access for Wondery+ subscribers.
---
It seems like a design flaw in our species that we live in a world of constant change yet most of us are not comfortable with uncertainty.
In this episode, we talk to Maya Shankar about how to get better at dealing with change and to stop seeking what scientists call “cognitive closure.”
Shankar is a former Senior Advisor in the Obama White House, where she founded and served as Chair of the White House Behavioral Science Team. She also served as the first Behavioral Science Advisor to the United Nations, and is currently a Senior Director of Behavioral Economics at Google. She is the host of the Pushkin Industries podcast A Slight Change of Plans, which was named Best Show of the Year in 2021 by Apple.
In this episode we talk about:
Why humans are so uncomfortable with uncertainty and change
What a behavioral scientist actually does in the world
Why even the host of a podcast about change isn’t immune to the uncertainties of life
The benefits of cultivating a more malleable sense of self
Why humans are such bad forecasters
The importance of auditing yourself when you’re undergoing a big change
How to take advantage of big reset moments
The concept of cognitive closure and why encouraging an open mind can make us more resilient
10% Happier with Dan Harris 
