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Start Designing a Life That Matters | Bill Burnett and Dave Evans

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Nov 24, 2025

Join Stanford educators Dave Evans and Bill Burnett as they redefine how to design a fulfilling life. They argue against the age-old advice of 'follow your passion,' advocating instead for applying design thinking to craft purpose. Discover the four keys to meaning—wonder, coherence, flow, and community—and the importance of formative relationships. They emphasize curiosity and mystery as essential to creating daily wonder, and encourage shifting from a 'got to' to a 'get to' mindset, unlocking a richer, more engaged existence.

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ANECDOTE

How Lunch Sparked A Movement

Dave Evans and Bill Burnett met for lunch and prototyped a Stanford class that grew into a global movement.
Their chance meeting led to years of collaboration, teaching, books, and educator training.

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INSIGHT

Designers Tackle Meaning

Designing your life reframes meaning as an active design problem, not a philosophical one.
Bill and Dave reject

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ADVICE

Aim For Transcendence, Not Perfection

Stop chasing unattainable self-actualization and aim for accessible self-transcendence.
Pursue outward engagement and meaning you can experience now, not an impossible final state.

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How a Stanford Lunch Sparked Their Work

01:43 • 1min

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From 'Follow Your Passion' to Life Design

Impact Isn't Enough for Lasting Meaning

06:21 • 3min

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Learning by Doing: Designing Meaningful Moments

08:55 • 2min

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Rethinking Maslow: Transcendence Over Actualization

10:50 • 3min

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Four Keys: Wonder, Coherence, Flow, Community

The Pitfall of Lone-Wolf Self-Actualization

21:28 • 35sec

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Formative Communities: Becoming Together

22:03 • 2min

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ERS: Engage, Reflect, Storytell

24:13 • 3min

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Embrace the Messy Middle in Your Story

27:11 • 1min

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Finding Your Focus Question

28:35 • 2min

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The Compass Exercise for Coherency

30:43 • 3min

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Tell Your Story Aloud to Gain Clarity

Prototype Your Way Forward

37:26 • 4min

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Resilience by Celebrating Particular Moments

Transactional vs. Flow World

49:51 • 3min

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Curiosity Plus Mystery Creates Wonder

52:31 • 3min

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Get More Out of Life, Not More Into It

55:26 • 49sec

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From 'Got to' to 'Get to' Mindset

56:14 • 3min

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Personal Mindsets That Guide Daily Choice

59:20 • 53sec

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Acceptance Plus Availability

01:00:13 • 1min

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Where to Find More Resources

• Mentioned in 572 episodes

Man's Search for Meaning

Viktor Frankl

The book is divided into two parts. The first part recounts Frankl's harrowing experiences as a prisoner in Nazi concentration camps, including Auschwitz, between 1942 and 1945. He describes the inhumane conditions and the psychological and emotional struggles of the prisoners. The second part introduces Frankl's theory of logotherapy, which posits that the primary human drive is the search for meaning, rather than pleasure. Frankl argues that meaning can be found through three main avenues: work (doing something significant), love (caring for another), and suffering (finding meaning in one's own suffering). The book emphasizes the importance of finding purpose and meaning in life, even in the most adverse conditions, as a key factor in survival and personal growth.

#481

• Mentioned in 52 episodes

Designing your life

How to Build a Well-Lived, Joyful Life

Dave Evans

Bill Burnett

Bill Burnett and Dave Evans

In this book, Bill Burnett and Dave Evans apply the principles of design thinking to help readers design and build a life that is both meaningful and fulfilling. The authors, who are also educators at Stanford University, emphasize the importance of prototyping, experimentation, and iteration in life design. They provide practical exercises and tools to help readers navigate life's challenges and create a future that aligns with their values and aspirations. The book is based on their highly successful course at Stanford and has been widely praised for its empowering and practical approach to life design.

AJ and Johnny sit down with Bill Burnett and Dave Evans, Stanford professors and authors of Designing Your Life, to explore how to build a more meaningful, fully alive existence. They share why “follow your passion” is bad advice, how design thinking can help you reframe your sense of purpose, and what it really takes to live with coherence and wonder.

Bill and Dave unpack the myths around self-actualization, the power of community in shaping growth, and how curiosity plus mystery creates everyday wonder. From shifting your mindset from “got to” to “get to,” to discovering your “focus question,” this conversation reveals how to design a life that’s creative, connected, and consciously alive.

Chapters:
00:00 – How lunch at Stanford started a global movement 05:00 – From “follow your passion” to “design your life”
10:00 – Why chasing impact isn’t enough for meaning
15:00 – Rethinking self-actualization and transcendence
20:00 – The four keys to a meaningful life: wonder, coherence, flow, and community
25:00 – How to find your focus question and design your compass
30:00 – The power of formative communities and shared stories
35:00 – Building resilience through small moments of wonder
40:00 – Awakening the “flow world” and shifting from got to → get to
45:00 – The mindsets for living fully alive

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Episode resources:

⁠DesigningYour.life

How to Live a Meaningful Life: Using Design Thinking to Unlock Purpose, Joy, and Flow Every Day