Embrace the Messy Middle in Your Story

They encourage sharing journey-focused stories rather than only polished destination narratives.

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AJ and Johnny sit down with Bill Burnett and Dave Evans, Stanford professors and authors of Designing Your Life, to explore how to build a more meaningful, fully alive existence. They share why “follow your passion” is bad advice, how design thinking can help you reframe your sense of purpose, and what it really takes to live with coherence and wonder.

Bill and Dave unpack the myths around self-actualization, the power of community in shaping growth, and how curiosity plus mystery creates everyday wonder. From shifting your mindset from “got to” to “get to,” to discovering your “focus question,” this conversation reveals how to design a life that’s creative, connected, and consciously alive.

Chapters:
00:00 – How lunch at Stanford started a global movement 05:00 – From “follow your passion” to “design your life”
10:00 – Why chasing impact isn’t enough for meaning
15:00 – Rethinking self-actualization and transcendence
20:00 – The four keys to a meaningful life: wonder, coherence, flow, and community
25:00 – How to find your focus question and design your compass
30:00 – The power of formative communities and shared stories
35:00 – Building resilience through small moments of wonder
40:00 – Awakening the “flow world” and shifting from got to → get to
45:00 – The mindsets for living fully alive

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Episode resources:

⁠DesigningYour.life

How to Live a Meaningful Life: Using Design Thinking to Unlock Purpose, Joy, and Flow Every Day